Astroworld

Thanks so much, Morgana. I've been looking at another astrology blog, and it seems that they're a little worried about how Biden will do, and if Palin will get away will pulling a fast one on us.

Thanks to you, I just took a real quick look at the debate chart for tonight vs. Biden's and Palin's transits to the debate chart. From the quick look that I took, it looks like to me, Biden will do just fine.

The VOC moon in the debate chart, I would interpret to mean that people's perceptions of these two candidates won't change all that much. Yes, Biden himself was nominated on the VOC moon, but I don't think it will necesarily affect how the top of the ticket will do. A gaffe or two here and there? Maybe. We'll see.

Note that the moon is conjunct Biden's Sun, along with his other Scorpio planets, whereas the moon is squaring Palin's. I didn't examine the two or three charts close enough to find the other aspects in those charts, but if you just look at these two or three elements, that would tell me that Biden will be just fine, and the polls won't change that much post-debate.

It could mean the end of the line for Sarah Palin, or a gaffe-off. But If I'm wrong about Biden being OK, then I'll know that I'll have to look deeper next time I check those charts out.

Karen, Beasely, QOP - all good posts on the last thread.
China has been experiencing all kinds of calamities lately, both natural and man-made, the latest being their milk products tainted with melanine. Remember the last eclipse made a direct hit on their country.

Morgana, I'll be watching with my popcorn - should be an interesting night. I voted 2 days ago (mail-in ballot). With Merc. Rx, I made doubly sure that I dotted all the i s, crossed all the ts, and signed on the dotted line, so let's see if I will have to vote again, and what the reason for that would be. I still have a strange feeling that this election is not going to take place as scheduled, and/or it may be one to remember, even moreso than the one in 2000.

Old Sourpuss is at his best when whining and complaining - here he is again. This time it's to do with Gwen Ifill as tonight's moderator for the debate, and he's also congratulating himself on action(none) that he took in contributing to the bailout plan. He's such a pathetic figure.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20081002/pl_politico/14207;_ylt=AopdJ7.Oi5AayqicNlNYfkus0NUE

Gina,
I agree, I think the People will like Joe Biden just fine. Palin is really irritating, and her non answers broad brush strokes are not going to float her boat.
I also think there will be some foot in mouth disease along with crow. Neptune crossing back and forth across Palin's Sun strikes me as a person vascillating between delusion and illusion. She's so pumped up she probably believes she is called of God and walks on water..you know the Bering Straits so she can eyeball Putin.

The GOP slime machine is hard at work. I received this e-mail message this morning, accompanied by a picture of a very angry-looking Obama.

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Now WHY aren't we circulating letters such as that? Were-as those are lies about Obama..............there us all this true stuff about mccain that is swept under the rug.
I see that Biden's N merc. is directly Sq. the T neptune, but kind of think the other favorable conjunctions, + his scorpio stellium falling in the 7th house of the debate chart, outweigh it?
Well looking forward to tonight, once it is over maybe the news will talk about something else tomorrow. Well they will have something different to talk about...........material is running very thin today!

Even if she were a wizz on foreign affairs, I wouldn't vote for her on the basis that she keeps her girls in brown black & gray , but dresses too tight. How hypocritical!

Palin is a nut-job. Look into her eyes. Her bubbly exterior is just a cover-up for her inner demons - instability, and insecurity. I think the ideal word to describe her would be "fanatic".

That's it exactly, Crystal... a fundie.

And she's perfectly sane in HER world... wherein she should stay & not come out, except to be healed.

Wow, Crystal, that was some sleazy email from our GOoPer friends. To me, that seems like the only way McSame can win.

But then, people seem to have really short memories these days, in the age of the 24-hour news cycle.

For Grumpy McSame to pull this election out, people will have to forget: a) how erratic he has behaved in the last two weeks, b) how scary and unqualified his running mate is, c) how lousy the economy is, and d) how bad the hole is that George Bush has dug us into.

Of course, overconfidence, complacency, and a big mistake or two on Obama's part could change things as they are now. Or the Bradley effect really can kick in. Or they'd really have to do a job of stealing the election this time.

Much has changed over this past month. I sure have been breathing a little easier over the last few days. But I know it ain't over till it's over. With a month to go, we might be in for a real roller coaster ride.

GEORGE FARAH: We used to have a fantastic, genuinely nonpartisan presidential debate sponsor: the League of Women Voters. From 1976 until 1984, the League of Women Voters hosted our most important public forums, and they made sure the debates served the public interest rather than the interest of any political party. And they had the guts to stand up to the two major parties.

AMY GOODMAN: Who are the co-chairs of the Commission?

GEORGE FARAH: Well, you’ve got Frank Fahrenkopf and Paul Kirk. These guys have run this presidential debate process for twenty years. They first incorporated in 1988. At the time, Amy, they were the heads of the Republican and Democratic parties. And they still—they still run our presidential debates.

And it shouldn’t be surprising that these guys are willing to sacrifice the integrity of the political process to serve partisan or private interest, because they’re registered lobbyists. Paul Kirk has lobbied on behalf of the pharmaceutical industry. And Frank Fahrenkopf is the nation’s leading gambling lobbyist; he is the president of the American Gaming Association. These are the guys deciding who gets to participate in the most important political forums in the United States of America.

JUAN GONZALEZ: But now, there have been occasions when a third party candidate did get in. Obviously, Ross Perot managed to get in some of the debates back in ’92. Now, what have they been doing in terms of that?
http://www.democracynow.org/2008/10/2/no_debate_how_the_republican_and

Don't miss reading the above!
Did you know the League of WOman Voters was driven out in 1988. By who else Poppy!
I didn't neither did my friend who just called me long distance to tell me of a palin response......
Asked what was the worst thing Cheney had done.............
Hunting accident! shot his friend in the face!!!!!
Feel better about the debate?????

Refreshingly honest, I hope we see more of that qop!!!

I remember 1988. I think that the Bush and Dukakis campaigns wanted to put undue restrictions in the rules of the debate; what I distinctly remember was that the League of Women Voters decided on their own to pull out of the debates, saying that they didn't want to participate in "the hoodwinking of the American public."

And so many still view him as an upstanding gentleman!

Looking at Palin's Venus 1 Aries has transiting Mars forming an inconjunct from 29 Libra might make her agressive in the oh so vicious Venusian way.

The Moon is going to pass over both Biden's Sun and Venus through tomorrow, so I'm thinking We will like what he has to say. Venus is coming up on his n. Mars we could also hear a depth of passion. Just so he doesn't go on and on and on and on and on...

Mars at 29 Libra is a critical degree, with airy Libra instability..look out the fireworks could fly tonight!

I guess Biden's hardest job is going to be to keep a straight face.

This is very sad.

Biden is coming across very clearly and with specifics. Palin looks like a deer in headlights. She's scared.

Well she has memorized the shit about tax increases......PARRROT.
Geeeebus she diverted cause she couldn't answer about deregulation.

She almost sounds like she's pleading.

Government bad! Government bad! Government bad!

Sorry folks, you can't hate something and expect to do well at it. No wonder the Republicans have damn near run this country into the ground.

Bridge to Nowhere! He said it. That was a zinger!

So we have the Barracuda barring her teeth.

Oh I hate the squishy nose face...yuk.

I love Biden's smile. He is clearly having a good time.

Palin still looks very stiff and nervous. She's trying to sound sincere and homey, but she's anything but.

Biden is staying on point.

Now she's outright worshipping McCain. Good grief.

"Main streeter like me?" Not quite.

Biden is very confident, looking at the camera more. He's giving so many more specifics.

Think she could learn not to say Ditn't?

Booo she ditn't' watch the Kyoto treaty meeting in ;'01 on cspan.

That isn't what Robert Fiske said on Democracy Now today....surge waste of everything........
Afghanastan is LOST!

Vey Niave!

Gwen is dong a great job!

Better than I expected of her. She's drastically improved over four years ago.

This is Palin's weakest area. She's regurgitating the very points that Kissenger fed to her.

Disqualified. SHe can't say nuclear!

Very non-specific, she is. Vague. Biden is the opposite.

Gwen may be propelled by survival instincts!

Now she's in campaign mode! Wow.

Beeeeeiiitch!

Is it me, or does anyone else notice a huge disconnect between what Palin is saying and her body language?

SHe's getting shrill

I want to throw something through my T V set!
Booosh redue!

SHe winked at the TV set? ANd she didn't sound very convincing about the death of mccain.
( her sorrow) she looked gleeful....
I REALLY HATE HER!

'say it ain't so Joe', his wife will receive her rewards in heaven. Shout out! omg she is way out of her league. She's just rambling.

I don't hate her, qop. I just think she's very sad.

Where is everyone? Couldn't take it?

You're a bigger man than I good for you!

I agree Morgana. She's talking way too fast and saying nothing meaningful.

Biden just zinged Cheney. "The most dangerous Vice President" in history.

Biden just broke down talking about his sons. That was more real than any other moment tonight.

It sure was and she is getting more unreal as she goes.............

SHe draqgged out that godamed baby . Its 10:30 PM!

Yup, part of the photo op, a prop, she carried him down the plane as well, then handed him off to her daughter shortly there after.

Some of the jackasses think she did great, captivated by her smile and a wink. Give me a break.

I don't understand. I think Palin came across fairly well. Of course, expectations were very low for her but still...very disappointing.

Teresa//she is totally niave about what is going on. Chris MAthews picked up on her pushing the envelope to expand the greater power that cheney
has staked out.

I know, qop. But we are relatively well-informed and can spot her lies, half-truths. We know when she is spouting well-rehearsed talking points. Not everyone, though, watches Keith Olbermann and Rachel Maddow. Not everyone cares if the woman is a female Dick Cheney/George Bush. They see and hear only the superficial and will vote for her because they think they like her.

I hope not. BUT focus group on CNN wasn't moved.........Obama won the night there.

I don't know where Palin received her education, but command of the English language is not one of her fortes, and why does she keep pronouncing the countries as Eye-raq, and Eye-ran? I think in Alaska, they must conduct most of their business around the kitchen table, because Palin doesn't have a clue about how to conduct herself in public places. She needs to learn about etiquette, and manners. Sheesh! What a hillbilly. Did you see her shouting out to her family members in the audience at the end of the debate? What a whack-job. Yeah, she gets shrill when she's nervous, which is 90% of the time; and the poor baby. How can she trust the little daughter to be toting him around? I think it's the rest of the family who really takes care of the baby, but Palin holds him just for the photo op.

Well, I watched the debate on PBS, and David Brooks, the neocon was singing her praises, but when I switched to NBC, Brian Williams was saying that she got 3 facts wrong in the debate, but few people noticed because she galloped through them. She was busy studying her notes while Biden was giving his answers. I can't stand her sneering, smart-ass attitude, especially when she's deliberately repeating lies. Ugh!

Teresa, I wouldn't worry. Tonight didn't earn Mc Cain any new votes.

The bar was set very low for Palin. She didn't stumble or utter complete blanks (save one) as she did in the few interviews she's actually given, so of course when she steps over it, she's hailed as a "success" by the corporate media and of course the McCain campaign, although given who signs their paychecks, they would say this about her regardless.

I watched Pat Buchanan on MSNBC practically have a very, um... "happy moment" while singing Palin's praises. But just as the press could only describe Palin in vague terms, "presentable," "assertive," and "strong," even Buchanan could only offer a word such as "magical" about her performance and stated that she should keep her distance from the press. I guess even he realizes that she withers under close scrutiny.

To me, Palin sounded like an infomercial. You know, the ones that air at 3:00am in the morning for hair care, weight loss or how to make $10 million in 10 months or less. She rambled and rambled on and on, desperately uttering what sounded like rehearsed yet purposely vague campaign talking points, never once perceptively striking an authentic chord. Her body language was a dead giveaway. She looked stiff most of the night, and when she wasn't that, especially towards the end, she was restless and fidgety, as if she wasn't quite believing in what she was saying and was trying to convince herself of its' validity.

In contrast, Biden came across as focused and confident the entire time, if not at times mildly agitated. Whereas Palin's words and claims were empty and easily forgettable -- I almost can't remember a thing she said other than her endless adulation and worship for John McCain, her cartoonishly folksy "isms" and endless nods/shout outs to family -- Biden's words had depth, purpose and meaning. He talked at length about the points he shares with Obama, ending the war in Iraq, tax cuts and health care for the middle class, trimming ineffective programs from the national budget, improving education and preserving the environment/fighting global warming among other things. Palin just repeated the same anti-government, anti-tax, "drill, baby, drill!" ideologically bankrupt Republican talking points again and again.

Far more importantly, Palin raised the specter of not only not curbing (in stark contrast to Biden's citing the Constitutional definition of the Vice Presidency's power and its limits) but in fact expanding the "dangerous" (as per Biden) abuses of privilege and power put into action and effect by Cheney over the past eight years. Palin told us, surprise, surprise, exactly what kind of a Vice President she would be, and more importantly suggested how that would translate into what kind of President she would be, should that most unfortunate occasion come to pass.

Palin, and McCain by extension, cannot be permitted successful election to the Vice Presidency and the Presidency. The outcome for both the United States and the world would be as dreadfully bad or worse than that of the past eight years under Bush and Cheney.

In stark contrast, I believe now even more that Obama would make an effective President, and that Joe Biden would be equally as effective, should the unfortunate occasion ever arise.

Biden was on point with the right kind of gravitas. Palin was spouting party line with a little to much winsomeness ( if there is such a word). And she shot herself in the foot with the Vice Presidency's job...to follow Dick Cheney. Joe Biden's crowning moments were to point out how dangerous the Cheney philosophy is, and how much of a "maverick" John McCain is not. Those words will go down in history. Exactly...Palin recites, Biden thinks substantively.

Okay Tweety just brought up her having her baby on stage at 11:00 pm at night, said they're styling her.

Oh lord Morgana "careening down the halls of Congress" perfect, absolutely perfect that is really what they looked like too.

Well, I am thrilled that this debate is over, and it's almost all downhill snark from here on out. Before I start this astro analysis (which is actually quite simple, surprisingly simple when you read it) But what I want to say is, I grew up in a small town in Kansas, one right on the corner of Kansas butting up against Missouri, Oklahoma and Arkansas, in fact, close to the Ozarks. I too came from a family of educators and I must tell you if my mother or father or aunts and uncles had heard me fracture sentences (in private or public) like I hear Ms. Palin fracture sentences the reprimand from my family, although gentle, would have left no doubt that I needed additional education in grammer, diction and elocution immediately. The other thing I want to say about growing up in a small town, we and most people I know from a small town, use that "down home, you all come now ya hear," folksy tone and attitude only when it suits our purpose and to fit into the archtype that urban folks have of the country, it's amusing to us.

That said, she couldn't actually be said to have made an idiot out of herself, only a very inexperienced and incompetent fool. She acted like she was running for President of the Senior Class, and would probably have won that contest with the same answers she gave tonight, but not Vice President. That was my opinion.

The debate tonight started with a 21 degree Libra Ascendant and 24 degree Cancer Midheaven. Biden's natal Jupiter was in the 10 house conjunct that Midheaven giving him an immediate elevation when the debate started (Jupiter rules his natal Ascendant) His natal Mars was conjunct transiting Venus in the first house, the Moon in the first house was in an applying conjunction to his Mercury. His Scorpio Mercury, Sun, and Venus fell in the 2nd house of values, people could easily see, understand, and feel his values.

The 21 Libra Ascendant was in a trine to Sarah's Sun and Mars presenting helping her not appear ingracious (which she was)and covered her in a mantel perceived energy. The transiting Moon tonight not only squared her Sun, it was conjunct her Neptune and inconjunct her Jupiter, the Moon represents the people and the people were a bit confused by what she was saying.

Her Aquarius planets fell in the Debate Chart's fourth and 5th house and she fell back on her experience as a mother and hockey mom too much as creditentials for being Vice President.

Some of the side aspects helping Senator Biden was an exact trine from transiting Sun to his 7th House Saturn, which fell in the 8th House of other people's money, he came across as someone who understood the economic issues and someone capable of being a good steward of other people's money.

The final story for me was transiting Jupiter was in a sextile to the co-ruler of Biden's natal Mars in Scorpio, and transiting Sun was in a square to Sarah's natal Uranus, the ruler of her Sun. The debate did not turn out as expected or as hoped for, especially with Mercury retrograde. Joe Biden won the debate but it will be of no consequences to the election, except people will take away a greater feeling of safety with Biden as VP in case something would happen to the President.

Well I have spent 8 years patiently explaining, No I don't hate W, just what he is doing.........
That "I hate her", last night was immediate and visceral....................
I reject her, she is repulsive! SHe raises my hackles!
"And she shot herself in the foot with the Vice Presidency's job...to follow Dick Cheney. Joe Biden's crowning moments were to point out how dangerous the Cheney philosophy is, and how much of a "maverick" John McCain is not. Those words will go down in history." Dangerous woman!
But then all her aquarianess is sq., to my sun, uranus, & moon, and with the T moon in scorpio, my passion was stronge!

Palin was haughty, despite her down-home lingo. If her Aquarian focus was "fixed" on higher human ideals, she would be formidable. As it is, she exhibits an ego-centric, holier-than-thou personna. It was appalling to hear her "god rest her soul" comment in regard to Biden's wife.

qop, i didn't have the same kind of visceral response, but it was close. Her first wink to the viewing audience was ingredibly audacious. I don't want a leader who winks me through crisis. Or a leader who can hardly wait to put her fingers on a larger trigger.

One dangerous, dangerous woman.

Biden was, at times, just brilliant.

Karen, Palin's wink was insulting. So was her, at times, sotto voce delivery ... the old, you know ... I'm on your side, don't listen to this guy. Populism at it's most rancid. Noxious. Toxic. Stupid.

For me, her voice just grates but she cannot help that but the little things to me sunk her. Not answering questions that she was asked and going off in another direction showed her lack of command of the subject. The "Veep" answer and indication that Cheney had it right was awful and Biden was outstanding in his response. I couldn't imagine that they could not have found a babysitter for that baby and the six year old at that time of night. Her grammer and lack of vocabularly plus the exaggerated "down home" remarks. I do think she did better than the interviews we've seen, but that's not saying much. Maybe she and the GOP do think she's qualified but she obviously is not and I would think she could see that by now. She cannot pull it off, maybe she could without her handlers who don't seem to have a clue what authenticity should look like, but she sure cannot pull it off now.

Lincoln Chaffee, who was a Republican senator back when some of them were respectable, refers to Sarah Palin as a "cocky wacko." I think that nails it.

Crystal, I got a letter from the GOP (not nasty like the letter you received) asking for money to defeat those dangerous Democrats. A prepaid envelope was enclosed, so I put a blank piece of paper in and mailed it back.

Didn't pay much attention to the body-language last night, but after reading the comments here, I intend to watch the video with the sound off. Should be interesting.

My gut reaction to Sarah Palin in the debate last night was, "She's SHALLOW!!!"

Plus she lost points for not answering the questions given to her, and rambling onto what she wanted to talk about. Specifics weren't her strong suit, either.

Biden, on the other hand, was in tremendous command of the facts, and looked like a real person, to boot. It was neither the end of the line for Sarah Palin or a gaffe-off--as she didn't implode--but Biden made the case for Obama and let her off easy at the same time.

This debate format did not lend itself well to follow-up questions. If it had, she probably would have imploded, as follow-up is her Achilles heel. Since the Repubs are going to continue to protect her from those bad bad journalists, I sure ain't expecting her to go on Meet the Press anytime soon.

Sally, where did you get the Libra ascendant in the debate chart? Was that in comparison to the election chart or Washington, DC? Morgana had a Taurus ascendant. Please advise.

Gina,
Brokaw is in the tank for the Republicans, I'm betting MTP is on her schedule. These guys think and vote below their belt buckles.

So talking heads are saying the 160k jobs lost last month indicates, despite the Bail Out, the US economy is going over the cliff.

Well duh...Banana Republic anyone?

Got a text message from a friend today who said that Palin sounded like a rehearsed parrot in last night's debate.

A story so sad and definitive about what is wrong with our country, it's received national attention.

From my neck of the woods:

http://www.ohio.com/news/top_stories/30240349.html

Foreclosure victim, 90, apparently shoots self
Summit deputies hear bangs while serving eviction papers to Akron widow

By Phil Trexler
Beacon Journal staff writer

Published on Friday, Oct 03, 2008

At the age of 90, Addie Polk found herself in foreclosure this week, about to be forced from the home she's lived in for nearly 40 years.

So, with a gun in her hand, the Akron widow apparently shot herself in the chest Wednesday afternoon as deputies were knocking on her door with eviction papers in hand.

While a nation reels in financial crisis from years of mortgage abuse, Polk is recovering at Akron General Medical Center, awaiting word on where she will live when she's released.

Meanwhile, city leaders say Polk has become Akron's ''poster child'' for victims of predatory lenders.

''I think this is a case where we need to step in and help this lady if she is so desperate to
shoot herself because she can't pay her mortgage,'' Akron Councilman Marco Sommerville said.

Court records show Polk took out a 30-year, 6.375 percent mortgage just four years ago for $45,620 with a Countrywide Home Loan office in Cuyahoga Falls. She took out a line of credit that same day for $11,380.

Her La Croix Avenue home was appraised by Summit County in 2004 at $31,230.

The Countrywide branch did not return a call for comment Thursday.

More at link...

good god, NEO! How often is this happening throughout the country? The disconnect between corporate oligarchs and those they enrich themselves upon is pure bloodlust. Of all the predators in the animal kingdom, humans are the only species who kill for pleasure.

All branches of our government have fully shown their incompetence, their loyalties, and their allegiance. It's not to the "flag." It's not to the people.

This $700b was a number pulled out of thin air. The bill, an energy-guzzling Hummer pulling behind it luxury earmarks, and heading to a brocade appointed dinner table with golden goblets.

Gina, I will rerun my charts but I have 8:02pm in St. Louis on Oct. the 2nd and that gives me a Libra asc, I shall recheck.

My mistake Gini, I accidentally calculated on an 8:02 am chart instead of a pm time and that's interesting because if I had realized my mistake earlier, I wouldn't have been quite so sure Biden would have won.

New web ad out by Obama stunning in its simplicity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOqSQeKsspU

OMG! Watching the palin entourage in Columbus O.
Cindy Mc & Willow look absolutely MISERABLE. Cindy's working her mouth; WIllow's eyes are sad, and she's still ewearing that gray dress ( unless this tape is from several days ago)

Oh and that heart wrenching WOrld Wildlife comercial showing the polar bears, on a tiny ice cube, had a phone number to call & donate...........1-888-358-9997.
The young man who anaswered had NO CLUE that sarah palin is sueing the US Gov. to keep them from putting the polar bear on the endangered species list.
He gave me the headquarters phone number so that Monday I can call & tell them. 1-800-960=0993. They need to be putting that info on their commercial.
I'd rather have a polar bear than a palin in the White House!

No problem, Sally. I still think you're great. All of you guys are great. And Biden won anyway.

Please send out good thoughts for Biden's mother-in-law. He has canceled his campaign appearances, apparently because Jill Biden's mother is ill and in a hospice in PA. I got that info from Daily Kos. I think there's a recommended diary with the story.

* Pitbull Palin Mauls McCain

SARAH PALIN’S post-Couric/Fey comeback at last week’s vp debate was a turning point in the campaign. But if she “won,” as her indulgent partisans & press claque would have it, the loser was not Joe Biden. It was her running mate. With a month to go, the 2008 election is now an Obama/Palin race — about “the future,” as Palin kept saying Thur night — & the only person who doesn’t seem to know it is Mr. Past, poor old John McCain.

To understand the meaning of Palin’s “victory,” it must be seen in the context of two ominous developments that directly preceded it. Just hours before the debate began, the McCain campaign pulled out of MI. That state is ground zero for the collapsed Main St economy & for so-called Reagan Dems, those white working-class voters who keep being told by the right that Barack Obama is a Muslim who hung with bomb-throwing radicals during his childhood in the late 1960s. ... http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/05/opinion/05rich.html

That was a good article! He picked up everyone of her cold spots.

Good observation on Palin's shallow, disconnected remarks in Thursday's night debate. I think half the time she doesn't understand the questions, and consequently gives either an irrelevant, or smart-alec answer in order to cover up her deficiency.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/04/opinion/04herbert.html?em

I watched NBC's Meet the Press this morning. Gwen Ifill, Peggy Noonan, David Gregory and others were on. Very good discussion. Gwen Ifill was particularly good in defending her position on Thursday's night debate, and speaking about how her book wasn't a factor in her role as moderator. There was a cut from last night's SNL making fun of the debate, and Sarah Palin, which was hilarious.

The financial crisis virus has spread to Europe, and it's now their turn to bailout their financial institutions. Will Asia be next?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081005/ap_on_re_eu/eu_europe_meltdown

Is anyone else affected as I am? I will not even be able to watch TV for the next 4 weeks!
( except SNL)

Crystal, I read this morning where the G4 (England, Germany, France and Italy) met to address the European financial crisis and to develop a new model.

QOP I have my basics covered, my 401K has been tagged pretty hard, I'm afraid to look I'd lost 20pct last quarter, this quarter will be worse. Retirement, lol not this lifetime.

I'm thinking I need to go back to school, become multi-lingual might come in handy. One of the articles I read last night or this morning said anyone 45 and older has been hit and may not be able to retire as planned.

I work for a Bay Area county-I have no idea how the retirement system is doing. I know the young people hate Social Security thanks to the propaganda starting with Reagan. sometimes I feel like weeping at work as I realize that these young ones believe the five day work week is a fact of nature,that they don't realize that their middle-class life is possible in many ways because their great grandparents and grandparents had pensions and Social Security that freed up the working ones to use their money to move up the ladder and that this will be gone in one generation when families have to take in the old ones who can not meet their own needs and have no resources to hire others to care for them
I have never had a facility for languages don't think I could pick up another language easily enough to help. I used to love to clean houses but don't think that I can work ffast enough to make money now.

A Damning Indictment of US Republicanism/Conservatism:

What Palin Tells Us About The GOP

A reader writes:

The shocker is not that Palin was chosen, or that she turns on Rich Lowry. (Let's face it: Palin is incredibly attractive, she uses her sex appeal to make straight men wither, women have been using that strategy since Cleopatra, and men will continue to cave in to such tactics until at least the next Ice Age.) The real shocker is that conservative Republicans -- after 8 years of George Bush -- are *again* willing to put all their hopes into a charismatic, folksy leader who is ideologically rigid and intellectually stupid. With her complete inability to express herself on complex issues, and her willingness to mask that with folksy charm and talking points, Palin is a carbon-copy of W.

Wouldn't you think that conservatives would be more wary of her after seeing the destruction that George Bush has wrought? The fact that they splash Palin's picture on the cover of the National Review with the words "The One," while knowing full well she lacks any intellectual fortitude and will therefore require a shadow presidency (is Todd Palin the next Dick Cheney?), tells me it will take a deeper collapse of America's foundations for conservatives to realize that this strategy is, has been, and always will be, fundamentally flawed.

Palin is the aroma that rises from the corpse of American conservatism. And they find it invigorating.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/10/what-palin-tell.html

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article20935.htm
A closer look at the life and career of John McCain reveals a disturbing record of recklessness and dishonesty

By TIM DICKINSON
...............
In the air, the hard-partying McCain had a knack for stalling out his planes in midflight. He was still in training, in Texas, when he crashed his first plane into Corpus Christi Bay during a routine practice landing. The plane stalled, and McCain was knocked cold on impact. When he came to, the plane was underwater, and he had to swim to the surface to be rescued. Some might take such a near-death experience as a wake-up call: McCain took some painkillers and a nap, and then went out carousing that night.

Off duty on his Mediterranean tours, McCain frequented the casinos of Monte Carlo, cultivating his taste for what he calls the "addictive" game of craps. McCain's thrill-seeking carried over into his day job. Flying over the south of Spain one day, he decided to deviate from his flight plan. Rocketing along mere feet above the ground, his plane sliced through a power line. His self-described "daredevil clowning" plunged much of the area into a blackout.

That should have been the end of McCain's flying career. "In the Navy, if you crashed one airplane, nine times out of 10 you would lose your wings," says Butler, who, like his former classmate, was shot down and taken prisoner in North Vietnam. Spark "a small international incident" like McCain had? Any other pilot would have "found themselves as the deck officer on a destroyer someplace in a hurry," says Butler.

"But, God, he had family pull. He was directly related to the CEO — you know?"..........more

QOP check out the Rolling Stone article on the real John McCain, "Make-Believe Maverick"

http://tinyurl.com/3toabc

Palin's bad mouthing is backfiring on McCain. Thank you Hillary.

That's what I posted Morgana. - the video & the ads! I'm glad it is in Rolling Stone, bigger audience!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/05/palin-misquotes-albright_n_131967.html
At a rally on Saturday in California, Sarah Palin offered up a rather jarring argument for supporting the Republican ticket. "There's a place in Hell reserved for women who don't support other women," the Alaska Governor said, claiming she was quoting former Clinton Secretary of State Madeleine Albright.

The statement came after Palin had recounted a "providential" moment she experienced on Saturday: "I'm reading on my Starbucks mocha cup, okay? The quote of the day... It was Madeleine Albright, former Secretary of State [crowd boos] and UN ambassador. ... Now she said it, I didn't. She said, 'There's a place in Hell reserved for women who don't support other women.'"
MAdeline Albright responded within several hours....NOT PLEASED!

Pat Boone is still shilling for reverse mortgages...............I wonder if thats another scam? (on CNN)
ALso noticed on the crawler earlier..........Negroponte has been sent to negtiate in Baghdad! Swell!

http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2008/10/03/molly_ivins/
What's missing from this election? Molly Ivins

The late buckaroo populist and freedom fighter would have had a ball with the insanity of this current news cycle.

By Anne Lamott

The Awareness Crisis

True economic crisis or not, it appears that we are afforded at this time with a rare opportunity to examine the underlying premises for our beliefs in prosperity & lack. It has been presented to humanity repeatedly, that no matter where we find ourselves within the hierarchy of human values, we will never be able to find inner freedom or contentment by trying to amass material riches… assuming of course, that finding inner freedom & contentment is a priority. So let’s look at that.

Personally I don’t believe that any of us, by definition, will find more contentment in our lives because we grow more prosperous financially. Otoh, lacking the necessities &/or comforts of life certainly doesn’t do it either. And yet here we are, on this extraordinarily beautiful planet… a virtual Garden of Eden… & we con't to compete for the rights to own, to dominate, to control & to consume her resources, & we’re willing to fight & kill one another to get them. How did this happen? Is it a kind of collective madness… or, have we been duped & conditioned somehow to think this way? It’s quite possible that we can answer yes to both of these questions. ... http://www.reconnections.net/njust_awareness_crisis.htm

Makes it kind of rough on those of us who have different values!
Arugula: good source of vitamin C & potassium.
Instead of using it to smear a candidate: the govt should be putting out public service notices ofit's benefots.
Free too,mine is self seedign for 3 years,.................

Good evening, qop. I just fished out an old video from my collection on which was copied a Larry King thingie, an interview with the Dali Lama, & the lord-high episcopalian mass for Princess Diana, all back in 1999, I believe. Same-old same-old except now things are worse, it seems to me... I cld be wrong, I guess. It was still very interesting.

Yeh things are worse now. Back then I had a little diposable income left out of SS after I paid the bills.

Sally,

My email account was wiped out a few months back and I no longer have your email address. I'd like to contact you directly about a couple of personal questions I'd like to run by you. Please contact me at dromero@hughes.net.

Thanks!

Sally,

My email account was wiped out a few months back and I no longer have your email address. I'd like to contact you directly about a couple of personal questions I'd like to run by you. Please contact me at dromero@hughes.net.

Thanks!

A good read. I have only done page 1 but am posting it.
http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=8c130fe3-adab-4cb3-8443-c363f085cf13
Carney had a wry sense of humor. He was fond of joking that he'd graduated from Wasilla High School in the "top 20 percent"--by which he meant he was valedictorian of his five-person class. Sometimes Palin was the only colleague who didn't get his jokes. "I don't think he had too much patience for her lack of understanding," says John Stein, then the town's mayor. In internal discussions, Carney would be relentlessly logical while Palin was vague and intuitive. "Nick had a way of being direct and to the point, something that Sarah was uncomfortable with," recalls Chase. Which is to say, when it came to garbage removal, what Palin seemed to have chafed against was less the substance of Carney's position than what she felt was his elitist, Ivy League bearing. And, over the next few years, she found ways to get him back.................much more.....

you're right qop, a good read and another petty, petulant bully who is so insecure that she has to attack and make someone less than herself in order to feel good about herself. I would say she is dangerous as dangerous as Bush and Cheney, maybe more. It gives me a chilling feeling and I don't think Obama should underestimate them.

Wish I could fiogure out how to earn money from being able to read people............
I got a good tip from our Dem activist tonight.
Leaving no stone unturned, she called to GOTV, even tho she knew how I would vote. And she urged me to do early voting: ( just in case something "HAPPENS" that day!) A good idea!
KO outdid himself tonight! Brought up palin's witch Dr, from Kenya and first dudes affiliation with the Alaska successionist party. He concluded with one of his rants...........very satisfying!

Let me see, last week the financial skys were falling and now this week Wall Street just isn't sure they want this bail out. Seems they would have to give up their bonus and pay scale and they don't want that. Seems they are willing to let the chips fall where they may. So I wonder where Paulson and his evil twin from Goldman Sachs are going to send this money. Folks, I've said it before and will say it again, WE ARE BEING SCAMMED right into the worst depression we have ever seen.

Iceland has gone from boom to bust in 8 years, odd huh, that's how long it took us, how long it took Europe, we have all gone from boom to bust in 8 years, it's almost like someone is manipulating or pulling the strings.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/oct/05/iceland.creditcrunch

Yup, yup Sally!

Must be good ol' Milty Friedman is alive and well having passed to his proteges the how-to manual on gorging yourself while impoverishing the many. A perfectly elegant economics plan. Yet, i STILL have faith that this too will pass. "Disaster capitalism" will experience it's own true disaster. Until then, we are going to be tested on what we truly value. To me the energy of valuing all that is inspiring, beautiful, and of eternal significance will trump -- any day -- that which is temporal.

Love to all, keep healthy, keep inspired.

Morning all!

Anyone watching the debate tonight? We will be putting up a new thread with charts later today. Should be a good one. Mercury is still retrograde, Saturn and Uranus are forming an opposition. Who knows, Obama may let it fly tonight and fight back against the old geezer. The geezer is under pressure from transiting Saturn sitting on his Neptune which may be why he can't come up with anything original or forward thinking. Obama has t. Mars squaring his Mercury, so we could well see him poke poke poking McCain.

That'll be very good, Morgana, yes? That kind of poking I like.

Unoriginal, backward thinking geezer mcflopflop willl have a devil of a time... not that The Evil Ones won't spin it in a way that it is not.

Sally, thanks for that enlightening article on Iceland. I remember learning that it was called the land of the midnight sun in elementary school. I always associate it with strange old fairytales like The Snow Queen. Reminds me of that lovely song of the 40s or 50s called "Faraway Places". Sadly, it's now just another weak link in the global chain.

The stock market is like a yo-yo today. The disconcerting thing is that when you look at a graph of it, every time it bounces back, the highs are lower, which is never a good sign.

Hey all,

Here are three basic charts for tonight's debate.

McCain debate transits:
http://morganaseawalker.com/McCain100708.jpg

Obama debate transits:
http://morganaseawalker.com/Obama100708.jpg

Debate chart:
http://morganaseawalker.com/PD100708.jpg

Meanwhile, I am celebrating. I found out today that I am going to be a grandma. Yippee!

Congratulations, Morgana!

Another debate on a VOC Moon, I see. The Town Hall format is apparently McCain's favorite. This won't help him near as much as he may wish, or that it may at first even appear.

Actually this may not play at all well for him. The audience doesn't interact, no feedback. The last time I saw him he sounded like Burgess Meredith as the Penquin. eh eh eh...

Oh Good for you .first Grandbaby?
Well we're off & running..............

Meg Whitman, huh? But Ebay isn't doing so hot these days...

My my Brokaw is snarly tonight.

Yes first. Buffet may not want the job.

Oh there goes McCain, McNasty.

Obama is trying not to laugh...

McCain is angry...

Obama is staying on point. He has been very consistent between this debate and the previous one.

McCain, a consistent reformer! That's funny! As many years as he's been in the Senate? As much as he's supported Bush? He's anything but.

I know how to do that! I have won wars...........

Obama is very sharp and answering the questions directly, he is connecting well, and best of all, he sounds real. McCain sounds phoney to me & weak, although he brightened up about cutting entitlement programs! He just made sure to get in the word "terrorist" just now.

You notice he SAID he can deal with all 3 at once, BUT he picked entitlements first!

He's trying to sound so populist...McInsane!

Obama tied that up nicely, after 9/11, the American People were ready to go to work. Bush said, "go shopping!"

"Raise taxes! Raise taxes!" McCain whines. "Drill! Drill! Drill!" The GOP loves these simple-minded mantras.

Oh man I cannot stand the liar.

But McCain, what if the health care options are all bad ones?

He should have run over Brokaw.

Very detailed, Obama is.

Think he'll lose his temper now?

Sounds like it, doesn't it qop?

Watching CNN the audience response meter is dipping everytime McCain opens his mouth. My Friends, my friends, my friends...blech.

Has he splained yet how?

Easy? How? Specifics? Intelligent people? McCain hates intelligence. That's why he chose Palin.

Like the base closing commission........closing down SS?

He's such a snake oil salesman.

Your record? Are you kidding?

How can we afford nuclear power, in bankruptcy?

26x voted against alternative energy, betcha McCain's blood pressure is through the roof.

Nuclear fission? BAD. BAD. BAD.

Nuclear fusion? Well, maybe good. But that takes R&D. Lots of it. A Marshall Plan would help. Not likely from the GOP. Not likely from McCain. Off the radar with Palin.

Brokaw must have read my mind.

Brochaw has an upper lip like a llama!

THAT ONE?!

That one?

hahahahah very good image there qop.

McCain is brittle.

You owe me a beer!

I mean Neo for our simutaneous statemnet!

He's a jerk.

Ha ha, qop. I'll gladly buy you one!

WHy do women like mcinsanes plan better?
( the graph on CN)

When I hear Obama talk, I actually want to make any sacrifice he asks for. When I hear McCain speak, I want to pound my head into a brick wall. McCain totally creeps me out.

I'm glad Obama stood his ground and explained the fundamental difference between him and McCain on health care.

OMG,OMG,OMG!!! I rally hate MCCain and his supporters for the lies. The moderator is so mean I can hardly bear to look at him. If he is the face of white America god help us.I really am in danger of losing my soul here-I don't believe McCain is entitled to any time at all-I cannot stand to hear "my friends" again.
Obama is so good-all that I was hoping for-expaining what he means about helping people get medical coverage, YES!! and he does this with class and dignity.

Because they think $5,000 dollars will buy health insurance. For me to buy health insurance for my husband and I now is $2,000.00 a month, I pay $1500.00 a month through my employers plan. Thanks but no thanks McCain.

McCain is trying to be so controlled and syrypy sweet nice, but most of the time he sounds like Big Brother or a the head of a mental institution talking down to the inmates. Barack, as always, sounds direct, respectful, authentic. I hadn't been watching the CNN meter until just now but I think people like him better - the men & women's lines are even entwined and not separate.

Rarely, the camera shows the audience behind the candidate. Mostly I see poker faces. But on those rare occasions when the audience is smiling in approval, it is for Obama's answer.

ANd I was paying $20.00 per month to Blue Cross Blue SHield in 1982, when I needed surgery.
At an excellant small Dr. owned & operated hospital.................. $16.00 for the phone bill for 10 days + about $700. to the surgeon!

lol just looked at the DKOS live blog, some poor souls are playing the drinking game with "my friends"...they are plowed.

OOh at kill binladen the men jumped right up the graph with the women.

You hit it Teresa. Obama is sincere. You get the feeling that he genuinely cares about people and the country. Not only the very rich and the fat cats begging for bailouts on Wall Street, but everyone else. You and I. McCain in contrast, when he doesn't reek of false sincerity, comes across as very snide and creepy. His incongruencies in speech and body language are apparent.

Ha ha ha ha I bet they are!

McCain isn't doing well walking softly carrying a big stick.

You are right, Morgana. McCain talks down at you. Obama talks on level with you.

Boy didn't he just FLATTEN that graph!

Maybe Petreaus should have run instead of McCain.

McCain doesn't get it, we have no clout, Russia is laughing at us.

Is Palin rubbin' off on Obama.

My mother was scrimpin' and gettin' food stamps!?

Dosen't much matter what he says, they just don't like mccaine! Oh oops except his service to the country! SUCKERS...........

Wow Tweety is on a roll.

I love Rachel Maddow. I really do think Obama won the night.

CNN poll is up, front page.

Agreed!

Here's the MSNBC poll link

http://tinyurl.com/47qg88

Boy Barack won 90.1% on MSNBC!

Obama clearly won this debate, sticking to and remaining consistent on the details and specifics of his plans. McCain will look even worse tomorrow as his inconsistencies are exposed. He didn't outline any new plans whatsoever, sticking to those old all-too-familiar Republican chestnuts about Dems raising TAXES and Big Government. He is out of touch, unpresidential and his campaign is clearly on the ropes.

The DOW dropping 500 pts after WE just dumped 700 Billion into it probably isn't helping McCain much.

Both John Mc Cain, and Tom Brokaw are too old and crochety for the job. It's time for them to be put out to pasture.

This is pretty funny!
http://wonkette.com/403347/liveblogging-the-postpartum-depression-debate-part-v#more-403347
Liveblogging the Postpartum Depression Debate, Part V

Round II, Obama wins again. Go vote on all the networks. They ask who won. Cnn, CBS, Fox, MSN, etc.
Nice opening by Obama...AIG.

Dare I say, I wonder if some of the Republican leaders themselves realize that McCain's campaign is now a lost cause? And not necessarily as of this debate, but as early as McCain's comment in mid-September about the economy being fine, just as the bank failures and financial turmoil had gotten underway.

It might be just as well for them. Another four years of a bad executive without any real vision or ideas in the face of many major crises, following on the heels of Bush's eight abysmal years, would almost certainly completely destroy the party (although a great deal of damage has already been done to it) and lay further waste to the country, leaving it on the brink of political and social revolution.

I think the GOP may already be secretly plotting to cut their losses with McCain and to try and regroup and make a comeback in 2010 (Congress) or 2012, capitalizing on Democratic shortcomings in dealing with the apparent economic collapse. But certainly, nothing is stopping them now from making a desperation mud-slinging attempt against Obama to try and instill as much doubt and fear into the public as possible, to undermine his possible Presidency, even before he would take office. (But, finally, I don't think even the Rovian garbage is working this time.)

However, with Pluto's ingress into Capricorn and its formation of an opposition to the natal Republican Sun in Cancer, also being squared by Uranus in Aries during the same mid-2010s period, I think the Republican Party may be looking at a massive defeat now from which it may never recover, UNLESS, it can make radical changes to itself as an organization/structure and its' platform, changes that should be happening NOW.

Oh GOD.....Greenspan's handmaiden thinks mccain economic plans made him win tonight.
She is toast! ( andrea mitchell)

I kind of figured that with the VOC moon, the perceptions of the candidates wouldn't change all that much. Obama wins, hands down.

I thought McBush had an interesting proposal to buy up the bad mortgages, but Bill Clinton had a similar proposal two weeks ago, on Jon Stewart's show--before we gave out $700 billion for the banks. Where was McCain then?

I was at a "debate party" last night with liberals and conservatives. The liberals were pretty silent and the conservatives just kept groaning when McCain started talking. One woman at one point, just said "shut-up" to the tv when McCain was talking. Brokaw's constant "reminding" them of the time made him sound like the headmaster saying "boys, boys" while they were setting fire to study hall, and a snippy headmaster at that. Brokaw had his rules and couldn't seem to make any shifts or be flexible. Outside of that, I thought the debate was completely unremarkable, I didn't think either man was particularly informational and I didn't learn anything new. However if body language has it, Obama won it. He looked calm and presidential, McCain looked anxious, angry and desperate. Tom Brokaw just looked prissy and the crowd looked like they were waiting for a root canal.

Seems to me that Cindy McCain always has her hands behind her so that no one will touch her. could be that injury to her arm or wrist required protection but she seemed so wooden and tight while Michelle Obama seemed to be a true Queen of Wands moving right into the people talking, hugging, posing for pictures all the while beautiful and powerful-I am totally smitten with her and take Obama more seriously seeing this wonderful woman he chose to spend his life with.

Clymela, I agree with you about Michelle Obama last night. She was so natural, warm, friendly, and outgoing, compared to Cindy, the mannequin.

About that proposal to buy up the mortgages: Where's the money coming from, and will there be a limit on the value of the house purchased? I don't mind the Government buying up homes that will keep the needy from living on the street, but I would hold the lines on new mansions. Old mansions would be okay if they were then converted into multi-family housing. (What I'm thinking of is old Victorians in transitional neighborhoods that need to be both preserved and put to good use).

McCain sounded angry all of the time, never relaxed either in body or mind-it was if he resented even having to attend the debate.

In addition, do we even know/agree on the cost of all the underperformingmortgages in the nation? The bank has one set of figures, which may be arbitrary, the governments who tax another, and the market price might be something else whatsoever. Just wrangling over that number would be costly as various entities struggle to come to terms on a common price.

I have news: I installed a blog on my website. It
s reachable by my website. I love it, because I can use the files on my site. have full control over my comments, and no longer have to worry about whether or not I can have commercial banners.

I posted the comment about John McCain's housing proposal before I found out that some of it is ALREADY IN the bailout law. I didn't find out which parts.

I find it outrageous that many of these foreclosed houses are standing empty, while there are people who are homeless. I agree that we shouldn't be bailing out speculators and their mansions. But if we do, I would propose that they be refurbished to house homeless people.

Yes, some might be in effect asylums, but I think these houses could be used as transitional housing for people going through hard times. Anyway, I have a hard time understanding how in America, of all places, there are people without a roof over their heads.

OK--there's my public policy proposal for the week. I wish I had something more astrological to say today. I'll leave that to you guys.

Gina, every day and every time I go downtown I pass an entire neighborhood that consists of largely old, vacant buildings. Meanwhile, people are living out on the street. Detroit has acres of abandoned houses that have been empty for decades, so much so that the yards are being used for neighborhood gardens. If we had a humane housing policy, I would be remodeling and giving away at least some of those homes for people who are PTSD sufferers, living on Social Security disability, and rent-to-own housing for people who have lost their original homes. I would then raze some of the rest to rescue fertile land that we can use so we can have our own dairy cows, fresh fruits and vegetables, acres of greenhouses so we can grow winter fruits and tropical fruits here. Other places can become land available for windmills, new train depots.

In short, if we can create real, good housing and a human-friendly and earth-friendly land use policy, we would then be blessed by the entire world for setting a good example.

I would also offer the Palestinians and displaced Iraqis who can't come home again some of those acres of abandoned housing. It would make the Middle East more peaceful and enrich our culture even more. Also, maybe it would end the fear of Muslims if there were more of them.

Just watching McCain and Palin speaking in PA. McCain was saying he would instruct Sec of Treasury to buy up mortgages, he would put a freeze on all government spending other than that absolutely necessary (i.e., war), he would stop high gas and food prices, etc. Then he said (and this was close to 2:33 PM EDT)

"THAT is the standard that I set for my fellow prisoners..." and then he went on to say something about Obama.

Surely the networks have a tape. Will they doctor it?

Old Mayfly, that is stunning. I hope DU and DKOS get it up. I turned them off McCain and Palin. I did stop and listen to both Obama and Biden today, Obama is laying out much more detail on how he is going to grow jobs and turn the economy around. The feeling I got was "inspiring" not gloomy and depressing like that grumpy old man and his sidekick.

Amen, Carol.

Old Mayfly, it's amazing how McBush--and Lady McBush--think that we can't see through these two contradictory proposals. Does he really think that we can't figure out that you can't spend AND have a moratorium on spending at the same time? Maybe some of us can't figure that out, and that's what he's counting on.

McCain wants it both ways. He can't have it both ways.

In LIBERAL Philly, they had a homesteading law. You could move into an abandoned home and fix it up, to eventually OWN it. There were benchmarks to be met etc. but a lot of young people got started that way.
( I imagine families too, but I was more in touch with the creative community at that point.

Maybe it's time to bring it back and make it a NATIONAL law. If a house has been abandoned for so many years, and no heirs can be found/or want to have the house, the house reverts back to the state to be sold at $10 to families and non-profit groups for a primary residence/office facilities. Commercial properties can be purchased for $1,000 and a clear title if older than 40 years if for commercial purposes, and if for housing purposes, the same $10.

Such an act would give many people a second chance at a house-this time with a fully paid for mortgage at a low price, clear out the backlog of old and abandoned buildings, and raise the value of those newer buildings that can be sold on the commercial market at market prices.

McCain: "My fellow prisioners..."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4FADXTI-vc

Now THAT is what I call a Freudian slip.

Amazing...

Did anyone catch Cindy talking about the chill she felt when Obama voted down the appropriations bill that would have supported her son?Was the woman so out of it that she never realized that her husband also voted down that bill? Also, Cindy looked so very much like some blue-eyed alchoholics from my own family. I think Cindy should go back to her cold stare-more charming that way

Did anybody watch McCain come down the steps of his jet? Did anybody watch him walking to the debate sight? He was limping. Does he have arthritis? Did he have a quiet, little stroke a while back?
I don't think his mental health is stellar these days...And transiting Saturn and Uranus have rendered the structure of his campaign inoperable. More disintigration to come....
The Asteroid Washingtonia, said by Jacob Schwartz to signify, the next president of the US, will be just past Obama's Sun come election day and just past McCain's Mars. The fix is in. Sun trumps all.

qop and CarolJ--now that's what I would call Urban Homesteading.

clymela, that's interesting. All the alcholics in my family had blue eyes as well.
Beasley, does Jacob think Obama will win? I had his website bookmarked, but a computer ago, and after the last election it stopped functioning.??
Yes mccain is deteriorating before our very eyes.
and I think all haras (sarah) palin is missing is a litle black sq. patch of moustache!

qop, according to MSNBC this morning, you can see the little sq. patch of mustache showing it's shadow on the cover of Newsweek.

Oh you're kidding! Great minds................
mcgoo wants to put OUR health records ONLINE!
Clusless!
ANd Lyyyyyyyyyyyinggg! In Wisc.!

I do think there is something medically wrong with McCain and whether it's mini strokes or the result of meds he takes or POW flashbacks, there is something wrong, and it's increasingly desturbing to watch.

If he was born at 9:00am his Saturn is in the 6th house of health opposing his Venus in the 12th and and squaring his Chiron in the 9th, that alone would rattle your mental health when Uranus set off that t-square. On election day the Saturn/Uranus opposition comes very close to that t-square. Add to that a progressed Saturn opposing his Neptune and squaring his Jupiter, his physical and mental health is under a great deal of stress right now even if his environment was in the best of circumstances and it isn't. Adding to all that is transiting Saturn conjuncting his natal Neptune, squaring his natal Jupiter and opposing his progressed Saturn. I would not be surprised to see this man explode, stroke out, heart attack, any number of options over the next two weeks, his life and mental condition is a walking time-bomb. If something happens to him Sarah Palin would be tapped to run in his place. She is suffering under delusion herself with transiting Neptune conjunct her Sun and oppose her prenatal Mars and conjunct her pre-natal Moon and a Mars/Neptune will be an operational square on election day, as well as the Saturn/Uranus opposition, they either steal the election or it's ripped from them.

Like Beasley said the astroid Washingtonia will be on McCain's Mars and Obama's Sun (just past) the SN will be coming to a conjunction of Obama's Sun and McCain's Mars on election day but will not be exact until Nov. 21 for Obama and Nov. 23rd for McCain. McCain's Mars is 12'22 Leo and Obama's Sun is 12'33, if Washingtonia is at 13 degrees Leo on Election Day, it is closest to Obama's Sun, because of the later minutes, the South Node will also be closer to his Sun on election Day. Both the asteroid and the NN missed Sarah Palin's Aquarius all together by Nov.

Heheheh. One of the digs Mc Cain took at Obama on debate night, boomerangs.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/ynews_pl78

If Mc Cain has to bow out of the Presidential race for whatever reason, I doubt the GOP will be considering Sarah Palin to take his place. Even they know she's not knowledgeable enough, or ready to be President, especially in such daunting times. I have no idea what they will do, but Mitt Romney might be the one chosen to take his place. However, Palin's Sun-Mars-Saturn conjunction in her 7th house makes her a formidable politician. She knows how to appeal to the public.

If Mc Cain has to bow out of the Presidential race for whatever reason, I doubt the GOP will be considering Sarah Palin to take his place. Even they know she's not knowledgeable enough, or ready to be President, especially in such daunting times. I have no idea what they will do, but Mitt Romney might be the one chosen to take his place. However, Palin's Sun-Mars-Saturn conjunction in her 7th house makes her a formidable politician. She knows how to appeal to the public.

Dow tanked. Jeez.

Acorn scandal..Dem side? On CNN; haven't found it in print yet.

Ugh oh, Obama has been paying Acorn to register voters...............eeek.

Oh KEN BLACKWELL, is calling for further nvestigation!

http://loudobbs.tv.cnn.com/
poll..go vote
77% think radical left groups are trying to influence this election!

qop, Blackwell has nothing to talk about. He isn't that far removed from his own corrupt tenure as Ohio Secretary of State that people have already forgotten him. The 2004 election remains an embarrassment to Ohioans, even those who won't openly admit it. No one here can honestly say these days that another four years of Bush did them any good.

Sally, I believe you are right about McCain. His health is far worse off than he or his handlers will ever admit. But I question whether they or the Republican bosses themselves would actually let Palin step in for him, should the worst come to pass. You said yourself that there was a strong likelihood that she would be gone, off the campaign, even as late as a mere matter of days before the election.

For the GOP to go on and allow Palin to replace McCain would be in essence handing the party keys to its' most reactionary and ugliest extremes, those who relish a Palin Presidency and all that it would represent, and that doesn't include women's rights. I'm not saying they wouldn't let her stand in, but if they do, it would all but seal that party's fate and its' total devolution into a dangerous and violently reactionary minority party.

My guess is that they would sooner tap Romney or even Giuliani... or some combination of the two, or someone else, to replace both McCain and Palin. But whatever they do, it would probably prove to be upsetting, and perhaps even irreparably divisive for some major faction of the party.

Qop-blue-eyes with blond air look so watery especially if heavy drinking is involved.
frankly so much is going wrong I don't know if anyone can help now. I heard Thom Hartman and guest explaining that the derivities that are causing markets world wide to tank and causing banks to go belly up are way,way more than the entire wealth of the planet-quaddrillions.
Well this is so beyond anything I could have dreamed up. No wonder everyone in power has turned so ugly mean-they, the ruling classes have no morals at all and are greedy stupid. I can't even stomach glossy paged magazines anymore with their $700 jeans and $5000 chairs shit literal shit. I feel embarrassed for ever reading about these people while I waited in the dentists office.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/10/10/palin_chryson/
Meet Sarah Palin’s radical right-wing pals

Extremists Mark Chryson and Steve Stoll helped launch Palin’s political career in Alaska, and in return had influence over policy. “Her door was open,” says Chryson — and still is.

Neo, that is why I mentioned Blackwell, pot callin the kettle black ironic! but SOP...............
I don't mean to indite all blue eyed people......I hope it's NOT an indicater, as 2 of my 4 Grandchildren are blue eyed!
I've been going through glossy fashion/decor magazines today,trying to discard some of them.
The older ones are in so much better taste, I can't get rid of them. Ahhhhh gracious living, if you couldn't afford it you could make it yourself.( doing market research...........)

Schwartz has been ill which may explain the website not functioning.
Yes, he used two asteroids, Washingtonia and America. He gives more weight to Washigtonia, by transit and then by progression. Since I don't know how to progress asteroids, I don't know what those degrees are. I suppose I could use Solar Arcs...but I haven't done that yet.
I wonder if it works from transiting asteroids to progressed planets. Will try.
I think McCain just nailed his own coffin by promising to buy out mortages, and in a subtle switcheroo gives the profit to the mortgage companies and banks, not to the tax payer.

Sally, I have McCain's birth time as 8:37 Am. Not much difference, but maybe worth noting. And I don't see transiting Saturn to his natal Neptune allowing him to steal the election. The last time this 12/6 natal configuration was hit by heavy transits, he ended up in the "Vietnam Hotel" for about 5 years. I see the general unraveling of this candidate...the loss of command of his own destiny. For a man who likes to boast of great commander in chief status, this is a karmic lesson indeed...and that is what the 12th house/6th house is about on one level. The dispositors of Virgo and Pices as they travel through the chart may be informative...given the times and the erratic nature of this season. Jupiter has already been discussed...Neptune, the other dispositor of Pices, is transiting in Aquarius at about 21 degrees making a 150 degree aspect to McCain's 12th house Venus. To say McCain is confused and confusing and somewhat dishonest about the economy and his economic plan is an understatement.

It's Asia's turn to take a hit on their stock markets. I was watching the Wall Street pundits jabbering today, trying to convince investors to stay the course in stocks, and not jump into cash. Yeah, right, because they won't have jobs if everybody flees the stock market. It's going to be a tough sell, and why should investors trust them?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081010/ap_on_bi_ge/world_markets

Sally, to add to your observations on Mc Cain's astro chart, I just noticed in his 9 a.m. chart (but it would be the same in his 8:37 chart), that Venus, posited in his 12th house, rules both his Asc., and his 8th house. This in itself, does not augur well for life, and bears out his many years of confinement as a prisoner of war, and being in and out of hospitals, and as you pointed out, Saturn in his 6th is also opposite his 12th house Venus, which is also detrimental to health, but what is particularly worrisome, are the current and upcoming Saturn/Uranus transits which will be re-inforcing his natal Saturn/Venus opposition, and signifies long periods of ill-health (as is already evident), probably leading to death - Venus ruling Asc.(life) & 8th (death), and Saturn ruling 4th(endings). It would probably come as a great relief (and release) to a tortured soul.

Sally, to add to your observations on Mc Cain's astro chart, I just noticed in his 9 a.m. chart (but it would be the same in his 8:37 chart), that Venus, posited in his 12th house, rules both his Asc., and his 8th house. This in itself, does not augur well for life, and bears out his many years of confinement as a prisoner of war, and being in and out of hospitals, and as you pointed out, Saturn in his 6th is also opposite his 12th house Venus, which is also detrimental to health, but what is particularly worrisome, are the current and upcoming Saturn/Uranus transits which will be re-inforcing his natal Saturn/Venus opposition, and signifies long periods of ill-health (as is already evident), probably leading to death - Venus ruling Asc.(life) & 8th (death), and Saturn ruling 4th(endings). It would probably come as a great relief (and release) to a tortured soul.

I don't want to be an alarmist, but I just saw on two very reliable sites that the market is most likely going to crash big time maybe even by opening tomorrow. There was a big spike up in gold at an odd hour (at closing) and the bond markets froze up. If you see this in time, go get cash, gas up your car(s), get food and hunker down as if a hurricane were coming your way to get you through the next few days (or weeks). The market has vaporized $5 trillion dollars in one week in spite of all interventions. They can't control it any longer. They were shooting for after the elections (to let this happen), but it didn't work out.

"It would probably come as a great relief (and release) to a tortured soul", and body I might add. Doesn't he always look as if he's in physical pain?

Here's one article that explains things more in-depth.

http://market-ticker.denninger.net/

Hi Sally
Could be the cause of (as you have predicted) Palin getting the boot before the end of OCT

I smell a rat
http://www.lewrockwell.com/cummings/cummings59.html
"But what happens if Stevens is acquitted? He will start sharpening his knives to stick into Palin before the election, if he isn’t doing so now. All of a sudden, seven people who had refused to testify against Palin in the state investigation into her possible abuse of power by firing the Public Safety Commissioner because he wouldn’t fire her ex-brother-in-law, a state trooper involved in a nasty custody fight with her sister, have changed their position and are testifying. A whole bunch of people in Alaska has to act fast before she can use her power as vice president to do them in."

Stan

Very interesting comments. I think McCain's phrase, "my fellow prisoners," was as much a Freudian slip as it was a senior moment.

I noticed when some of my family's then older generation passed on, that transiting Venus was prominent in every chart.

Re alcoholism and the genetic predisposition, my observation is that Americans of British descent (both Anglo/Saxon and Celt) are more susceptible.
I read once that the further you move from the Mediterranean, the greater the incidence of alcoholism.

Ben Franklin's autobiography (which I think of as a handbook for Capricorns) indicates that alcoholism was rampant in the colonies in his time. From the families who could afford it, many an errant son was shipped off to America.

Very interesting comments. I think McCain's phrase, "my fellow prisoners," was as much a Freudian slip as it was a senior moment.

I noticed when some of my family's then older generation passed on, that transiting Venus was prominent in every chart.

Re alcoholism and the genetic predisposition, my observation is that Americans of British descent (both Anglo/Saxon and Celt) are more susceptible.
I read once that the further you move from the Mediterranean, the greater the incidence of alcoholism.

Ben Franklin's autobiography (which I think of as a handbook for Capricorns) indicates that alcoholism was rampant in the colonies in his time. From the families who could afford it, many an errant son was shipped off to America.

You know Stan, I smell a rat too I am just not sure from what direction that smell is coming. This whole election season has seemed like some kind of a set up to me. I know this economic meltdown is a set up. Every law that could help us has been systemically removed, money pouring into a made up war leaving us vunerable (financially and militarily)this $700,000 bail out package has been for the purpose of bailing out their buddies, another way to steal from the treasury. The pieces of the package designed to help the rest of us have been deleted from the final version. I am curious as to whether the low comes today or closer to the 15th when Mercury goes direct.

CNN 360 or 380 not sure what it's called is doing "The 10 Most Wanted" it's a list of the people on Wall Street most responsible for this mess. I am still not sure whether Martial Law will be declared before elections and I'm not sure if candidates stay safe through the rest of this month and whom ever gets into office will not be able to make too many changes in 4 years and will need people to back him up. If it's McCain, I'm not sure I could back him up.

People are rightfully freaking out over their investments and pulling money out of their banks. I do think Paulson's prediction of "today will be the worst" is an attempt to stop the banking bleeding and calm companies and countries fears and maybe Monday folks will calm down and low buying will begin. They have Bush, with what looks like a "coke jaw" out there everyday telling us "it's going to get worse" What is that about?

I hope Obama and Biden win this election, however that said I don't trust any of them and we should all keep watching. I just think Obama/Biden will be a ticket that has the most possibility of being changed by the office through the people.

My intuition tells me to question mcCooCoo's tauted glorified status of PoW. For some reason, I just don't believe it.

Marta, good article I hope everyone reads it and I agree with you, we all need to get ready, if nothing happens "great" but being prepared is the best way right now. Stock up the best way you can, under the best of circumstances it's going to be a bad day.

Sally, I couldn't agree with you more, being prepared is helpful in that it's at least being proactive. We hope that it won't happen. Unfortunately, given the circumstances, can we count on life continuing along as usual? Even the astrology says "no". So, it's everybody's responsibility to be individually responsible for themselves. I think that after Katrina we all know the gubmint, who has orchestrated this whole mess, won't be picking up the pieces or putting a helpful hand out. Their only response will be violence. They have planned this for a long time. Ask yourselves what plans you have made to protect yourselves and your families.

All week I have been alternately sad and angry.
I noticed the ugly immorality of this financial mess with credit card companies and with banks- the unnecessary charges and the contempt for low income, low networth people (of which I am one in all honesty).
Today on Democracy Now Amy Goodman intrviewed an expert on what is happening now and he reports that the executives at Lehman's looted billions from the branches in Landon and around the world and then went bankrupt so now the world is refusing to play with us becuase we are such murderous bullies.
Sally-sadly i fear Obama's connections with the big finance guys and Biden's with the credit card thugs. but then as you point out I know about the other team -totally out of the question.
Yes I fear that those channeling Hitler and his thugs are getting ready to pull the noose. This is all so weird. I have been so sad this week.

joannaO, therewas an article in Rolling Stones about mccain's POW days.your intuition is right. He has whitewashed the story greatly.
Sorry I don't have a link, but if you google it you will find stuff! I did bookmark this one!
http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,164859,00.html
Why I Will Not Vote for John McCain
Phillip Butler | March 27, 2008

As some of you might know, John McCain is a long-time acquaintance of mine that goes way back to our time together at the U.S. Naval Academy and as Prisoners of War in Vietnam. He is a man I respect and admire in some ways. But there are a number of reasons why I will not vote for him for President of the United States.

Today is a triple 10 day - October 10, 2008. Wonder if it will be Black Friday for the stock market, or if there will be a turn around. Did Bush speak yet? I thought he was supposed to address the nation this morning.

Crystal, yes Bush was on when I got up (7:15 am pdt). Well it's been a Black Week. I don't expect the Market to stop seesawing until Obama takes office.

Saw McCain long enough to see he looks like macaca today. He's whipping up those hate mongers.

At this very moment (10:30 am CDT), the Dow is off another 300 or so points, and the Repubs are doing whatever they can to steal the election, namely by making it harder for new voters to vote, in Ohio, in Indiana, Nevada, and many other states.

Will it work? Maybe. But if it does, whoever the Republican is will come in with a dark cloud--little confidence on the part of the people, and even less once they get in.

I just read, in a great article on Daily Kos, that by law in many states, ACORN is obligated to turn in EVERY voter registration card, including the bogus ones. Leave it to the Republicans to use these laws to their advantage in the media.

Speaking of the media, the Troopergate report is supposed to come out today. I hope that happens before the moon goes void later on today, and not just in a Friday afternoon news dump. The time zone in Alaska may play a part in this story.

Don't be sad Clymele, this is just a passing bump at this time in history, they come around about every 80 years. This one is going to try to take us to a global market, it will be class war fare to the max. We can either elect someone who will throw us to the wolves or someone who will throw us to the wolves with a life line. I will take the second choice, but we are headed into a global market and a New World Order and my hope it will be a big surprise to the wanna be master of the universe. They have been here before and will be here again, they have also lost before and will again.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4211150

This is the end paragraph of another article and the most interesting and informative paragraph

We've talked a lot about McNasty's current transits as we hit these different milestones on our long journey toward light.

Hunter over on DKOS has an article up, but what struck me was seeing the manifestation of McNasty's transiting Saturn sitting on his Neptune, and transiting Uranus sitting on his n. Saturn. The article is http://tinyurl.com/4gz93j

Those with a lot of planets in Virgo (especially if incompatible with the sign, or receiving stressful aspects), can be mean and nasty when offended. In Mc Cain's case, Venus is in its fall in Virgo(too cold & analytical for expressing Venus's warmth), and also receives an opposition from Saturn, which partly accounts for his mean streak, and because Venus is in the 12th house, it is normally hidden from public view, so it may take some people by surprise. His moon in Capricorn, in its detriment, also makes him a cold person. McNasty may just be the right alias for him.

* Rage rising on the McCain campaign trail

With recent polls showing Sen. Barack Obama's lead increasing nationwide & in several GOP-leaning states, some [Repunks] attending McCain-Palin campaign rallies have taken on a new emotion: Rage.

"When you have an Obama, [House Speaker Nancy] Pelosi & the rest of the hooligans up there going to run this country, we have got to have our head examined. It's time that you two are representing us, & we are mad. So, go get them," one man told Sen. John McCain at a town hall meeting in Waukesha WI.

It's almost a cry for help, with the GOP party faithful amazed McCain could possibly be losing.

"And we're all wondering why that Obama is where he's at, how he got here. I mean, everybody in this room is stunned that we're in this position," another man said at a rally.

"I'm mad. I'm really mad. And what's going to surprise you, it's not the economy. It's the socialists taking over our country," another man said. http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/10/mccain.crowd/

The newz photo shows all these pink faces... they're just used to having it good their way & not having it like "Them Others" (who don't really exist 'cept as annoying scraps) Po' po' lil tantrum-throwing anglo pink-punks...

here's the link for the Oct 16th Rolling Stone McNasty article:

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/coverstory/make_believe_maverick_the_real_john_mccain

Keep the mantra rolling: President Obama

JoannaO, I was going to post a similar article on Yahoo when I saw yours. I was surprised to read that the incident that took place at the Palin rally, where the man shouted out "kill him!" took place in Clearwater, FL, just a few miles up the road from where I live. I think Palin is largely responsible for Mc Cain's campaign taking on this angry tone. She knows how to push their buttons, and it tells you something about her character, but then I look back on the GOP convention, when Ghouliani, and other speakers were indulging in a hate-fest against the Democrats, and whipping up their audience into a frenzy, and I see similarities in what is now taking place at Mc Cain's campaigns. I hope things don't get uglier before the elections. Rove must be rubbing his hands with glee.

JoannaO, I was going to post a similar article on Yahoo when I saw yours. I was surprised to read that the incident that took place at the Palin rally, where the man shouted out "kill him!" took place in Clearwater, FL, just a few miles up the road from where I live. I think Palin is largely responsible for Mc Cain's campaign taking on this angry tone. She knows how to push their buttons, and it tells you something about her character, but then I look back on the GOP convention, when Ghouliani, and other speakers were indulging in a hate-fest against the Democrats, and whipping up their audience into a frenzy, and I see similarities in what is now taking place at Mc Cain's campaigns. I hope things don't get uglier before the elections. Rove must be rubbing his hands with glee.

Ok, I know that I'm not clicking on the "post" button twice, but sometimes my posts get duplicated. I'll chalk it up to Merc. Rx, but Pluto opp. my Uranus does some strange things too, because Uranus rules my 3rd house. Like 4 days ago when my car refused to start for no reason, then I got caught in a blinding rainstorm on the road (sigh).

Well the pig wagon just went off the road into a tree! SOmewhat ends the nasty smears............
http://mudflats.wordpress.com/
Branchflower Public Report Released!
10 10 2008

The Legislative Council has voted unanimously to release the public portion of the report.

Findings:

Finding Number One:

For the reasons explained in section IV of this report, I find that
Governor Sarah Palin abused her power by violating Alaska Statute 39.52.110(a) of the Alaska Executive Branch Ethics Act. Alaska Statute 39.52.110(a) provides

“The legislature reaffirms that each public officer holds office as a public trust, and any effort to benefit a personal or financial interest through official action is a violation of that trust.”

QOP, you certainly have a way with words :)

Here's an easy to read version of the findings on Sarah Palin's abuse of power.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/palin_troopergate

Thanks Crystal,
And rereading it first thing this AM it comes with a visual lightbulb inspiration!
CNN was busy minimizing th story as I tuned out last night!

They said GM stock was lower than it's been since 1950. Anyone know WHY it was low back then? Did th ey have a lull because 4 years after the war, orders were'nt coming in?

* Palin's AK vendetta adds to McCain's woe

When John McCain chose Sarah Palin to be his running mate, his supporters declared the move a masterstroke. But Repub poll ratings have been falling day by day - & now the 'Troopergate' scandal has turned the Hockey Mom from AK into a liability for a campaign that has lost its way. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/oct/12/uselections2008-sarahpalin

They're all mad as hatters & loony as march hares.

John McCains birth certificate:

http://tinyurl.com/4vcq2q

Aug 29, 1936
6:25 pm, Est
Colon, Panama
09°N 22'
079° W 54'

Bob

Seems like the last link did not get you to the pic. Try this.

http://tinyurl.com/4qbclr

Bob

I have a couple of questions about John McCain's birth certificate:

--Is that Eastern Standard Time? Is Panama on Eastern Time, or Central Time? I know that time zones then weren't like they are now, but double-checking the time zone would probably be a good idea.

--Did this just come out? And how did they find it? Was it the McCain campaign that released it? or was it available on the web, say, through the Navy?

--Does McCain have a few astrologer friends out there? Ed Tamplin, maybe?

--Assuming that this is authentic, and there's no reason to debunk it at this point, where does that put his ascendant?

If the latest birth data for Mc Cain is correct, he sure looks like the next president of the US - Jupiter in Sag. in the 10th, close to the MC. He, like Palin, and Obama have a heavily tenanted 7th house, as most successful pols do. I didn't check Biden's.

Well, I looked at Bush's natal chart (from Astrodatabank), and if the time is correct, his 10th house isn't tenanted, yet he was a 2 term pres, so that's a relief as far as Mc Cain's 10th house goes. So what is the compelling evidence for someone becoming President of the US? I guess there has to be certain connections to the US chart.

Mr. Nicewander:
I also can't find the image of John McCain's birth certificate or chart by clicking on the link you mentioned. Still, I did the chart using solar fire and got 6 Pices rising, 10 Sag 54 MC. Did a solar return for him, relocating the chart to Washington, DC. Anyway you cut it, doesn't look like he's going to make the presidency despite that Jupiter conjunct the MC of his natal chart. I think the 8:37 am chart works much better. So my question is, where is the copy of the birth certificate. I would really like to follow up on this.

Looks like the nickname I gave Mc Cain is suited to his new horoscope - Old Sourpuss has Saturn rising.

Hahahahahaaa... good on you, Crystal!

I just finished reading John McCain's mother's account of an AM birth. She may be old, but not gaga. And when she gave the account she was extremely lucid. AM birth is not something a mother is likely to forget...not to the point of a 12 hour difference; not unless she was drugged out of her mind for long time.
Still can't find that birth certificate.