Astroworld

Sally this is really hard to listen to, he is lying through his teeth.

Though I think he got off script taunting Dems.

Complete balogna. And Nancy Pelosi looked either ill, disgusted, or in pain, couldn't tell which. His smirks came when he was basically telling them what he had put in place so the war would have to continue. Not credible as evidenced by the Republicans clapping too hard and too long.

Katherine Sebilius Gov of Kansas...Democratic response. Following on with the tone set by Kennedy & Obama this afternoon. Asking the President to join in with ordinary Americans to deal with the failing economy. Asking Americans to join in& help each other.

I found her response calm and refreshing. Listening to the pundits they are talking about this speech being devoid of vision for the US, where people will be, what they can do, nothing; just completely out of touch with what people find to be of concern. What was this speech about? Someone asked if there was a concern that this would not be his last STOU, I hope that's not true.

Said the best I have read in the last long 7 years. I promise you will be speechless by the truth of this essay

http://agonist.org/stirling_newberry/20080128/they_did_do_nothing_to_deserve_the_name_americans

This was posted by McCamy Taylor on Salon's TT. I posted it on the last thread, and I think it's perfect.

"The first two things the Bush administration did were to set their energy agenda (i.e. set their sights on Iraq) and implement their universal program of surveillance. That surveillance program--a tug of the forelock to the late J. Edgar Hoover--is what controls official Washington today.

George W. Bush presides over one of the greatest criminal enterprises known to mankind. His administration--with all its problems--stands astride the globe in a way Hitler would view with choleric envy.

Congress, the press, the courts, and the bureaucracy are no more powerful than the secrets they keep. They have no secrets from the Bush administration. Senators with wealthy husbands can be persuaded easily if knowledge of the existence of that offshore stash of tax dodges affords any leverage. Representatives and senators with hooker and/or drug habits or slush funds or dubious donors or who aren't open about an illicit relationship are malleable because the Justice Department has gathered a treasure trove of information acquired from NSA, CIA, DIA, DEA, and any other component of the alphabet soup that looks over our collective shoulder.

Low taxes, lax regulations, and high oil prices have been Holy Grails for the rich since 1932. The coming economic fall is the sound of that top one percent cashing in its chips. They have achieved their objective and will repair to the far corners of the world, their hoarded dough stashed safely in Switzerland and other monetary safe havens. Tsk! Tsk! What a sty the United States has become!

It has been brought about by surveillance, shameless blackmail, and ruthless prosecution of revenge for those who refuse to cooperate. Yes, government is broken. Intentionally broken. Maliciously broken. The free press isn't free because it's bound by the same snooping that keeps the thieving apparatus running smoothly. It's why telecomm immunity is so important to the administration (and some in Congress) right now.

The Gravy Train is pulling out of the station, fully loaded and with a clear track ahead. The Bush Administration Motto? "So long, suckers!" "

http://thinkprogress.org/?tag=State+of+the+Union

State o the Union Fact Check, plus a kiss

"The Gravy Train is pulling out of the station, fully loaded and with a clear track ahead. The Bush Administration Motto? "So long, suckers!" "

Is that not the god's truth and what it feels like Pat C and I am certain that's what it will be as Congress and we the people stand with insipid smiles slowly waving goodbye

In any sane world it should be a frog march Sally. It really should. I no longer ask why it isn't, but I still find it hard to deal with because I want to live in a better world.

Here is Krugman's and it's once again right on. I couldn't agree with him more.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/28/opinion/28krugman.html?ex=1359176400&en=003bdab51838bad4&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=all

Krugman: Lessons of 1992

It’s starting to feel a bit like 1992 again. A Bush is in the White House, the economy is a mess, and there’s a candidate who, in the view of a number of observers, is running on a message of hope, of moving past partisan differences, that resembles Bill Clinton’s campaign 16 years ago.

Now, I’m not sure that’s a fair characterization of the 1992 Clinton campaign, which had a strong streak of populism, beginning with a speech in which Mr. Clinton described the 1980s as a “gilded age of greed.” Still, to the extent that Barack Obama 2008 does sound like Bill Clinton 1992, here’s my question: Has everyone forgotten what happened after the 1992 election?

Let’s review the sad tale, starting with the politics.

Whatever hopes people might have had that Mr. Clinton would usher in a new era of national unity were quickly dashed. Within just a few months the country was wracked by the bitter partisanship Mr. Obama has decried.

This bitter partisanship wasn’t the result of anything the Clintons did. Instead, from Day 1 they faced an all-out assault from conservatives determined to use any means at hand to discredit a Democratic president.
...

No accusation was considered too outlandish: a group supported by Jerry Falwell put out a film suggesting that the Clintons had arranged for the murder of an associate, and The Wall Street Journal’s editorial page repeatedly hinted that Bill Clinton might have been in cahoots with a drug smuggler.
So what good did Mr. Clinton’s message of inclusiveness do him?
...

The point is that while there are valid reasons one might support Mr. Obama over Mrs. Clinton, the desire to avoid unpleasantness isn’t one of them.

Second, the policy proposals candidates run on matter.
I have colleagues who tell me that Mr. Obama’s rejection of health insurance mandates — which are an essential element of any workable plan for universal coverage — doesn’t really matter, because by the time health care reform gets through Congress it will be very different from the president’s initial proposal anyway. But this misses the lesson of the Clinton failure: if the next president doesn’t arrive with a plan that is broadly workable in outline, by the time the thing gets fixed the window of opportunity may well have passed.

My sense is that the fight for the Democratic nomination has gotten terribly off track. The blame is widely shared. Yes, Bill Clinton has been somewhat boorish (though I can’t make sense of the claims that he’s somehow breaking unwritten rules, which seem to have been newly created for the occasion). But many Obama supporters also seem far too ready to demonize their opponents.

More...

Hmmm, this is a very convincing article about focusing on and making the media be responsible, not just the government. The media and the government have gotten way off track, way off track

I think we'll have to wrest it out of the hands of the corporations first Sally.

It seems that nothing is really owned by the people any more. If we really want a democracy, that has to change.

Sally, pretty canny of you to see that karmic connection between Obama and the Kennedys. For a further jaw-dropping take on that theme, and what's happening right now, take JFK's swearing-in chart of 1-20-61 and put Obama on the outer wheel....

Stirling is a fascinating writer, perfecto take on the snake of the union. Nice way pinhead let us all know we'd be paying for those tax breaks by stealing from the poor... again.
However Pelosi felt, what I noticed was her body language as she listed in her chair the entire time TOWARD Cheney.
Pefect description of Cheney as a kimoto dragon qop FOMCLMAO! Controlled his split tongue from darting out somehow during the address.

And a dose of reality from Glenn Greenwald:

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/#postid-updateN4

UPDATE IV:

Victories of any kind are so rare that I'm reluctant to dampen the enthusiasm -- and it is notable that, regardless of their motives, Senate Democrats did actually manage to do something different than the White House ordered them to do, so that's good. But it's important to emphasize what really happened here today, and what didn't happen.

snip

The only reason Democrats were able to hold their caucus together today to filibuster is because The Senators were offended that their inalienable Senatorial Right to vote on amendments was deprived by the GOP's premature Cloture Motion. The one (and only) "principle" that can really inspire many of these Senators to take a stand is the protection of their Senatorial prerogatives. Many of them don't actually have any beliefs other than that.

snip

Senate Democrats today took a stand for their procedural rights, not against telecom immunity or warrantless eavesdropping. After all, many of the Senate Democrats who voted to filibuster this bill were more than ready last week to vote for that bill, and they will vote for it again soon enough. Moreover, while they were upset that they were denied the right to vote on these amendments, many of them intend to vote against those very same amendments and will ensure that most, if not all of them, fail, so that the bill arrives at the White House in a form acceptable to the Leader.

As indicated, it's preferable for several reasons that the Cloture Motion failed today -- and one can still praise Senate Democrats for refusing to capitulate fully (at least yet) -- but it isn't the case that Senate Democrats collectively took a stand here for anything more substantive than their own institutional customs. Many of the Democratic Senators whom you like today for voting against cloture will be voting soon enough in favor of telecom amnesty and for warrantless eavesdropping. The House is the real hope for stopping these measures.

More at the link....

You nailed this again, Sally. And, doesn't 9 signify war/aggression? The blatant challenges to Iran -- and protecting our interests in the ME -- was beyond provacative. It was chilling. It also reaffirmed the same feeling i've had for a long time, that some false flag operation will be taking place. I hope by writing/saying this out loud, it will not happen. Yet, everytime Bush spoke about our military prowess or incursions, Cheney jumped up from his chair and clapped like a maniac. Not to mention that Pelosi kept screwing her mouth up, as though she had something distasteful to spit out, like her forked tongue.

Ugh, ugly, ugly all of it.

And did you notice that when he went into that storytelling mode, graphic descriptions of the blood & gore wraught by terrorist attacks in Europe and battle scenes in Iraq HE KEPT LICKING HIS LIPS!
ODEOUS MAN!
I think we should all call the WH 1-202-456-1111, and insist that Bush return his $200,000. per year raise ( incurred since 2001) back to the country to be used in the economic stimulus plan!

The following Naomi Klein piece on Disaster Capitalism nicely summarizes exactly what this administration is now doing to address our economic woes. Yes, more giveaways. And Pat qop, they want to reward Bush for giving them the gift of a so-called emergency. Thus, the $200,000 is just a drop in the bucket. I'm sure the benefits he receives (the ones he's able to hide) are far greater. A**holes!
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article19217.htm

I really couldn't watch that little worm.
Went to bed and read Shirley McLain's new
book...put me in a much better mood.

Deeply disturbing trial--conducted in secret and everyone found guilty (Blackwater protesters!). Dark wave of the future?

http://www.alternet.org/rights/75244

PatB I did take a look at the '61 Kennedy Inaugural chart and it stunned me but I didn't want to mention the connections. It wasn't just the connections between that Inauguration and Obama, it was also the connection to the 60's. transiting Jupiter of today is in a trine to the '61 Pluto and Pluto will begin to trine Virgo with the possibility of bringing back the hope of the early 60's, and Jupiter will be in a Jupiter Return this year. Obama's planets hit several points in that chart, not the least of which is his Jupiter conjunct the Inaugural Sun.

I wasn't old enough to vote for Kennedy but I would have been old enough in 64 but that would not ever be. The amazing thing however is people my age believed that we had a connection to our government, we believed the doors were open to accomplish good things for this country and we wanted to do that. We followed Jack and then we followed Bobby and then like their children we hung on to Ted. We believed in that light they held aloft. If Obama could give that hope to the younger generation and he could be true to that "light" it would be wonderful and I am all for it. One of the really great things about Jack Kennedy is when he felt he was wrong he told us and gave speech after speech about holding him and this government accountable for their actions.

Last night I listened to Chris Matthews (I normally don't care for him) but he gave a monologue about what it was like for us in 1960. He drew a picture of Bobby's car going down the road with black and white running along side just trying to touch him. Jack Kennedy going from country to country with millions pouring out just to line the streets and roads so they could wave. He talked about the excitement of the Peace Corp and the thousands who signed up and poured out of this country to the third world to lend a hand. Matthews said "they rose from the mist and then disappeared into it." Well not Ted, he stayed and so did his sisters and all their children, they stayed and they worked trying to keep the best of ourselves alive. It wasn't what Jack and Bobby were, they had their frailities a plenty, it was what they could make us believe we were that marked them as leaders.

Caroline Kennedy is right, it is through the eyes of the young that see Obama as a way out of the mess that has been created here by the pettiness and greed that has grown up especially since 1980. Someone said last night that it wasn't really a torch the Kennedy's passed but a baton; I think that's true and I hope Obama or someone can start up the band again and keep the music going to find the best of ourselves again.

Amen to that, Cap'n Sally.

Damn it, Shy. . .the Blackwater article was just, well. . .ungodly.

And yes, Sally, there is also Obama's oratorical skills which seem to mirror Kennedy's. In actuality Obama's speech patterns are musical and resonate, even more so than Kennedy's. It's not only what he's saying but how he's saying it, and how it's being heard.

Thank you for that astounding link shy! OMG!

Sally, I want to believe, I really do, but I don't. Oy!

Take a look here

http://www.waxingamerica.com/2008/01/selecting-the-d.html#comments

and here

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080211/fraser

I follow astrology because I think it cuts through the mundane noise. Maybe this is just mundane noise, but my gut is worried. I still prefer Edwards so far.

Oh my heart hurts.

Some more hope for Obama:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080129/ap_on_el_pr/obama_sebelius

Pat C, since Kucinich dropped out, i too will be using my vote for Edwards. My observations of Obama are just that, observations of his magnetism. His policies are not substantive. That worries me, for in that he is totally UNLIKE his Kennedy predecessors. I still maintain, however, this current election cycle may represent a convenient way to entertain the public while all sorts of vile and hellish policies are being carried out -- throughout the world. I hope to god, i eat my words about the possibilities of another false flag operation in order to suspend the entire constitution and create that new world order this cabal so hungrily seeks.

Children of Caroline Kennedy and Edwin Schlossberg are:
42. Rose Kennedy4 Schlossberg, born June 25, 1988 in New York City, New York.
43. Tatiana Celia Schlossberg, born May 5, 1990 in New York City, New York.
44. John Bouvier Kennedy Schlossberg, born January 19, 1993 in New York City, New York.

Indigo Children all three: Pluto in Scorpio.
( being born with a remembered sense of purpose/destiny!)
The endorsements were THEIR initiative! They, urged, coaxed their mother & Uncle to do it!
I felt a pure beam of hope and relief, while watching the announcement at American University. I have NOT been a supporter of Obama, because of his too conservative leanings, & his corporate contributions.....
But tell me now.....Is he as intractable, stubborn, & incapable of taking advice as Bush?
No! No one is! Is he evil? No I don't think so ..............
The point being......... Are Americans who have erred in stupidity, shallowness, wrong headedness, etc. etc., now going to "Miss the urgency of Now." MLK, by staying mired in the victim role...................instead of working for change and yet, talking it to death.
In a way Obama IS the Kennedy's creation, because their foundation brought his Father to this country to study thus meeting Obama's Mother! With their backing, it will be easier to take the high road.
With your looking to the charts from the 60's Sally, it certainly does boost what I felt!And YES I did vote for Jack, proudly! My first election. His motorcade inPhilly passed right by our apartment, nd I threw the babies into a stroller & hiked up to the shopping center a mile away to hear him speak. He was so inspiring, and we weren't weighted down with baggage & sorrow to prevent us from HEARING his WORDS.

I'm with 'ya Pat C, I believe Mr. Obama is a tad bit of a liar. There, said it.

Edwards has that clarity which inspires instinctual trust, even tho we may not go 100% with his methods.

Said before, it's what they DON'T say that says everything we need to know.
Which is why I thought the Kennedy influence might force O to do the right things.
If this is the Kennedy baton, a bit of the Kennedy curse might be part of the package as well.

Shy, bet Jeremy Scahill's got a lot to say to expose this story all over the web. What pitch darkness.

Patb Can't resist saying this.........the Kennedy curse is the Bush Crime family. Now we are all suffering under the Kennedy curse!

I agree Pat C about Obama and I much prefer Edwards, I did in the last election after I got over Howard Dean who also inspired people. It's really the younger generations I am looking at now, I have grown cynnical over the years and they will too I guess, but they need inspiration to go on. Jack Kennedy and Bobby died before they could put what we believed they could do, in place, but their legacy was the millions of us that kept believing we could make civil rights happen, women's rights happen, equal pay, better corporations and it happened for awhile, until the slide started in 1980.

FDR also helped a war and poverty stricken country believe in the best of themselves. Was FDR perfect, did he ever lie, did he himself live up to his own ideals, no he did not live up to them and neither did the Kennedy's. But because of their ability to inspire and help people gather hope we built a strong country and a happier one and more prosperous over the last 60 years than what came before. It will never be what these people "do" for us, it's what we believe we can do for ourselves thus the words "ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country." Both FDR and the Kennedy's put projects in place so we could do something for our country. Last night someone said after all this country has endured under this administration, he left and still didn't ask us to do anything for our own country. Just shop.

I don't mind being cynnical about Obama or any of them even Edwards, because who ever wins needs cynnical people to keep a watch on what they are really doing so others can stay informed. But at my age I know eventually I will pass on, just as the America I knew is passing on, but I will be leaving my grandchildren to the hands of my children, I want to try and leave them in the hands of hope and a belief they can strengthen this country and be a part of something greater. If Obama gives them that hope then I say "pass the baton," and perhaps the children will pick it up, if not, they will have to wait until someone else comes riding out of the mist.

That was very eloquently stated Sally!
Thank you.

Sally, patb, Pat QOP, I will vote for the Democratic nominee, and I will encourage my family and all I can reach, to do the same. Rest assured. I will also fight for honest vote counts.

Lovely sentiments Sally.

Here are the statements on FISA from all three of the candidates, and some steps that still need to be taken by us.

http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/28/hillary-clinton-statement-on-fisa/

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/1/29/122629/527/38/445410

http://blog.johnedwards.com/story/2008/1/24/144856/068

There's something I can't resist saying too - what turns me off about Edwards - and this has nothing to do with his policies - it's just him as a person - the constant fluttering of his eyelashes and the facial gymnastics when he speaks, his whiny accent, his perfectly coiffed hair. I feel like at any minute he's going to stand up and do a pirouette! Consequently, it is hard for me to see him as Commander In Chief. The other thing is, why can't he get more votes in his neck of the woods? I really thought he would do much better in S.C. Let's see how he does in N.C., his home town. Maybe he'll do better in the other states on Super Tuesday, but right now I see him just as an "also ran". And you can't use the excuse that his message isn't getting out. He's been included in all the debates so far, he's had his say, but it seems like the majority is not interested, and that is why he hasn't been scrutinized as closely as the other 2 candidates -because he's not seen as a threat to anybody yet, but that could soon change if he starts polling more votes.
I could be wrong, but I think this is a 2 horse race between Hillary and Obama, and if John wants to stay along for the ride, well then, best of luck to him. I know most of you here are Edwards supporters, so I hope I have not offended your sensibilities.

I just read Sally's post, and I'm sorry I couldn't be as eloquent as she was. Can I blame it on that ol' Sagittarius rising that makes me use my words like an arrow? Or that old bogeyman, the devil? Hahaha.

I do see what you are saying about Edwards Crystal and at times he does look so weak. I just like his message and the honesty in which he delivers it. I do think he would make a good AG, he has the passion to keep those who would steal and cheat thinking about their actions.

Sally that was eloquently said. I think the important point as you put it re FDR, there is the fundamental heart influencing one's actions, whatever lies there be is sometimes necessary. Unless of course, you're poor Eleanor. But that was none of our business.

Last night I had the pleasure to view the 2-hour PBS documentary about Robert Shriver's role in birthing the Peace Corp, relief to the impoverished at its' core, the Special Olympics born in his own backyard thanks to his wife, his empowerment to do these things by a committed Lyndon Johnson to fulfill JFK's vision.
Then what followed naturally in my thoughts is how Maria Shriver Schwartenegger could possibly adjust to being married to the son of a Nazi and his actions in CA being raised surrounded by values of helping the disadvantaged near and far. Could she be that blind? Just bizzarenegger.

qop, that comment flipped me brain a bit. Never thought of that until you mentioned it.
Certainly true, only the good are the ones that get popped off (bush has no worries, at least from this country in that regard).

For Edwards it's more than a race to getting the nomintion. Having delegates is legitimate brokerage.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/012908H.shtml

Power Through Delegates May Be Edwards Strategy
By Julie Bosman
The New York Times

Tuesday 29 January 2008

Chattanooga, Tenn. - With the Democratic nominating contest building to Feb. 5, the candidates have been focusing on the crucial game of accumulating delegates, a task that has become a possible raison d'être for John Edwards.

After finishing third in three of the four primary contests so far - except in Iowa, where he beat Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York for second place by less than one percentage point - Mr. Edwards has shown no sign of quitting, and his advisers have insisted that he still hopes to capture the nomination.

But they have also floated other rationales for a continued Edwards candidacy, suggesting that his delegates could be used to promote his platform or to help him act as a power broker at the Democratic convention.

"We're still hoping that John is the nominee," said David Bonior, the national campaign manager. "But with a chunk of delegates, you can leverage what you've been fighting for and standing for. You can raise these issues to where they should be on the Democratic agenda. We're running for those two reasons: to get the nomination and to have his voice heard on his issues."

more...

I understand what you are saying crystal. Keep in mind that Edwards's poll numbers go up after every debate, but that's not nearly enough press when the other two are getting all the rest. Pretty difficult.

Speaking of JFK, his favorite poet was Robert Frost if I remember correctly. Frost wrote a poem that I think describes the CEO culture, upside down pyramid of the Reagan trickle down theory and the sub prime situation, and the Bush legacy. It's called The Ingenuities of Debt.

http://buddha-rat.squarespace.com/poetry-journal/2005/6/14/the-ingenuities-of-debt.html

See what you think....the Bush legacy.

Just wanted to weigh in for a second on Maria Shriver and Arnie. Arnie is not a Nazi, or neo Nazi, he is unfortunately a Republican (and a marginal one at that), I suspect Uncle Teddy has some sway. Maria was a news reporter, Arnie was/is an actor, hormones most likely and Arnie wanted to social climb. If Maria had mis-married I'm sure we would have all heard about.

Patb, I can't remember do you live in CA ?

Well, no, Der Gropenator may not be a Nazi, but his father was connected. And never forget that Der Gropenator made a special toast to Waldheim during the wedding festivities for him and Maria.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0814-07.htm

Morgana, I live in Boulder, CO since '74, but a native New Yawkah without the accent. Skied/lived in VT before coming west to be near Chogyam Trungpa.

Didn't say Arni was a nazi, just his dad. Seems he has tad bit of a duckling's imprint.
The least of it was the arching of an eyebrow when I heard he burns his kids clothes if they leave them around the house.

More importantly, how he played dumb to the Thug redistricting strong-arming while Californians had to fight like hell (twice in two months!) to prevent that from happening.
Very smart, intense and well-organized fight.
Thugs would love CA as a notch on their belt and Arnie would love to let that happen.
don't forget he's bleeding money from schools, teachers, and other public programs that are vital.
I think he's a thick-headed crude a-hole!

Edwards returns to NOLA

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/1/29/15112/4060/120/444319

Uh oh!

From MCM

This morning Volusia Co SOE Ann McFall announced that they were going to recanvas all ballots that had been counted during early voting because there were four more voters who voted than ballots counted. The media reported that this was due to an advisory that had been sent out by Diebold.

That advisory is attached. See http://margrover.com/ibip/dieboldadvisory.pdf

Of particular concern is has any other jurisdiction outside of Florida who uses these machines been sent this advisory?

I'm not so much interested if the reported problem had happened before. I am very interested to know if Diebold sent that advisory out to anyone other than its customers in Florida.

Kelpie Wilson | Abortion and the Earth

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/012908R.shtml

Truthout's Environment Editor Kelpie Wilson writes: "The moral arguments about abortion rarely consider the physical limits of the planet, but if they did, and if abortion were put into the context of the long history of human attempts to avoid starvation by regulating population growth, we might come to a different conclusion about what 'pro-life' really means."

Be still my heart. Edwards has an instinctual goodness which Carter has.
For someone whose heart has been properly broken and humanized, he's out there in NOLA knowing his heart may soon break again. What a lack of self-indulgence, generosity, nobility and genuine class!

I get so weary of those dwelling on his good looks as some sort of evidence that he's superficial or a phoney. Whatever superficial tics he has, there's a real man underneath.
He can relate to human suffering, and none among the others have done a damn thing for anyone but themselves. I'd follow him anywhere!

I think he's the real deal patb.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/

Memory lane

Remember when those of us who argued that the United States was in the midst of a serious housing bubble were ridiculed, and told that we were simply motivated by irrational Bush-hatred? Ah, memories.

More at the link....

I knew as soon as Elizabeth's cancer reoccurred that I couldn't support Edwards. He needs to be with his family; hence, I've been an Obama supporter from the beginning. I love him and the promise he brings to us. My 19 year old son and all his friends feel it, and I think that's an amazing accomplishment.

also, he was born 4 days after me, and I most definitely feel that kinship.

Am watching the Florida primary returns on CNN.

Regular posters here with good memories for trivial details may remember that I predicted Fred Thompson would be the GOP candidate. I thought so because Fred had been chosen by the GOP "decision makers" and I figured the Republicans are so authority-driven that they would fall into line.

What I didn't count on, is how Fred would sleep-walk through his "campaign." (Or how Jeri's cleavage, etc. might be a turnoff. BTW, when I first saw that photo of Fred and Jeri in her blue/silver gown, I knew nothing about Fred's marriage and thought, "What!!! He allows his young daughter to dress like that?")

Anyhow, now I'm reading that the "decision makers" have decided on McCain for the GOP candidate. Funny thing, I bought most of my Christmas gifts from Buzzflash, and one of them was the graphic novel "Shooting War." In this book, set in the near future, McCain is president. I thought that was strange, but maybe now not so much.

Barbara

Hillary wins in FL

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/clinton_florida

Gary Hart: real info : http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gary-hart/the-burdens-of-empire_b_83899.html

For the better part of a year before the gratuitous invasion of Iraq, along with others I wrote often about the real neocon plan, the secret one not disclosed to the American people. It involved the use of Iraq as the U.S. political and military base in the Middle East, dictation of terms to surrounding nations, protection of our oil dependencies, long term occupation, and the construction of permanent military bases. All of this would be administered by a proconsul of Roman proportions, safely sequestered behind a multi-billion dollar fortress now known as the Green Zone.

Yesterday, President Bush signed the Defense Authorization Bill, including Section 1222 prohibiting permanent military bases in Iraq, with the now customary "signing statement" declaring that he has no intention of enforcing the law of the land, including this provision, though bound by oath and Constitution to do so.

much more at his post

To be perfectly honest, I don't know who to trust anymore. The whole political landscape has my head spinning. I don't know whether or not Obama is for real or not, but he seems to have inspired the younger generation, and that's a great thing on many levels. I don't not deny I have my reservations about Obama, but I have them for everybody else too. I cannot express how disappointed I was in Kerry when he didn't fight for Ohio. That said, I don't know of anything that this country needs now more than hope. If that is what Obama can bring that no other candidate can, then I'll happily vote for him. I think it's going to be critical that he wins by a landslide.

Ya know? What business is it of ours what very personal decision was reached between John and Elizabeth Edwards. How we presume and judge what someone else should do in circumstances we can't imagine. It is between them and no one else.

Reminds me of that old slogan back in '68 when all we heard was that Bobby Kennedy was "Ruthless". Duh and duh again forever I weep for man'kind'.

Here's the good bad and the ugly!
( be sure to read the comments!)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/politics/
Nancy Pelosi "Mesmerized" By Kennedy Passing "The Mantle"

http://www.bradblog.com/?p=5576

Election Integrity Expert Mark Crispin Miller Says 'Fringe Movement' Within Republican Party Is 'Dismantling Democracy'

Big Brother arrives in CO with bells on:
"All people arrested, whether mistakenly or not will have DNA extracted and stored for eternity for national scrutiny".

Pelosi, pelosi...permanently mesmerized.

http://consortiumblog.com/

The Fight for Bush’s Legacy

snip

n their haste to avoid confrontations with this President Bush, the Democrats are reprising their response to the wrongdoing of the last President Bush.

Indeed, protecting George H.W. Bush’s legacy grew into almost an obsession for President Bill Clinton, who not only went along with sweeping under the rug several national security scandals – Iran-Contra, Iraq-gate, October Surprise – in 1993, but whose subordinates aggressively joined in covering up Bush’s wrongdoing in subsequent years.

For instance, in early 1996, one of Ronald Reagan’s national security assistants, Howard Teicher, came forward with a sworn affidavit detailing how Reagan and the senior George Bush had secretly armed Saddam Hussein’s Iraq during the 1980s. The reaction of Clinton’s Justice Department was to bully Teicher into silence. [For details, see Robert Parry’s Secrecy & Privilege.]

In 1998, when the CIA’s inspector general issued two damning reports about how the Reagan-Bush administration concealed proof of Nicaraguan contra drug trafficking – including evidence which led directly into the White House – the Clinton administration stayed mum on the remarkable disclosures. [See Parry’s Lost History.]

Even in 1999, when Clinton released some historical records relating to the horrible Guatemalan political violence – and even genocide against Mayan Indians – during the Reagan years, the Democratic President issued an apology to the Guatemalan people but failed to direct any criticism at either Reagan or the senior George Bush.

The refrain that I heard from senior Clinton officials in the 1990s was that these historical questions weren’t on “our radar scopes” or that the administration was “looking to the future, not the past,” or that the President needed to “work with these guys.”

More at the link….

These are Kennedys who have done some good in many areas...so they are endorsing Hillary. Funny, national media crowed loudly over superstars Teddy, Caroline and Patrick. RFK, jr, alone is worth all three of them
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-kennedy29jan29,0,1618955.story

Kennedys for Clinton

She stands for Democrats and for the nation, these family members say.
By Kathleen Kennedy Townsend, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. and Kerry Kennedy
January 29, 2008
This is a wonderful year for Democrats. Our party is blessed with the most impressive array of primary candidates in modern history. All would make superb presidents.

MORE....

Robert Kennedy, Jr. has said he wanted to run for Senator Clinton's Senate seat, I hope he does and I hope he wins and I was happy to see his siblings supporting him in his support of Hillary and their hope that she moves on and leaves the Senate seat opened with an endorsement of Bobby Jr. I think he is a great and hard working person and would be a real asset in that position.

Meanwhile, Dennis Kucinich needs help! It was all over the blogs yesterday; this morning relegated to the list at the bottom of DU.
Not only has he been excluded from the debates, but the DLC is throwing a huge effort to unseat him from the House, by heavily funding his primary challengers ( more than one)
( there may be something darker at work here) They're trying to eliminate him while we're all mezmerized by the contest between the Dem.front runners.
He is the voice of truth & conscience in the Congress, the "promoter of CHANGE"!
If you can, send money for his compaign!
http://www.kucinich.us/

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/01/29/6703/
Kucinich Postpones Bush Impeachment Effort
by Sabrina Eaton

http://tpmelectioncentral.com/2008/01/breaking_edwards_dropping_out_of_race.php

Edwards Dropping Out

Breaking news: Edwards drops out.

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com

Here's the real Macoy. Talks about his 28,000 sq ft. house, working for a hedge fund that advised the super rich, and of course his $400 haircut. Hard to reconcile that with his claims that he represented the poor and working class.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080130/ap_on_el_pr/edwards

Guess they decided to leave this part out in the later version, but like I said, when they started to look at him under closer scrutiny.....

It came as Edwards was dogged by negative coverage of his personal wealth, including his construction of a 28,000-square foot house, his work for a hedge fund that advised the superrich and $400 haircuts.

John Edwards to quit presidential race By NEDRA PICKLER, Associated Press Writer
12 minutes ago

DENVER - Democrat John Edwards is exiting the presidential race Wednesday, ending a scrappy underdog bid in which he steered his rivals toward progressive ideals while grappling with family hardship that roused voters' sympathies but never diverted his campaign, The Associated Press has learned.

The two-time White House candidate notified a close circle of senior advisers that he planned to make the announcement at a 1 p.m. EST event in New Orleans that had been billed as a speech on poverty, according to two of his advisers. The decision came after Edwards lost the four states to hold nominating contests so far to rivals who stole the spotlight from the beginning — Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Obama.

The former North Carolina senator will not immediately endorse either candidate in what is now a two-person race for the Democratic nomination, said one adviser, who spoke on a condition of anonymity in advance of the announcement.

Edwards waged a spirited top-tier campaign against the two better-funded rivals, even as he dealt with the stunning blow of his wife's recurring cancer diagnosis. In a dramatic news conference last March, the couple announced that the breast cancer that she thought she had beaten had returned, but they would continue the campaign.

Their decision sparked a debate about family duty and public service. But Elizabeth Edwards remained a forceful advocate for her husband, and she was often surrounded at campaign events by well-wishers and emotional survivors cheering her on.

Edwards planned to announce his campaign was ending with his wife and three children at his side. Then he planned to work with Habitat for Humanity at the volunteer-fueled rebuilding project Musicians' Village, the adviser said.

With that, Edwards' campaign will end the way it began 13 months ago — with the candidate pitching in to rebuild lives in a city still ravaged by Hurricane Katrina. Edwards embraced New Orleans as a glaring symbol of what he described as a Washington that didn't hear the cries of the downtrodden.

Edwards burst out of the starting gate with a flurry of progressive policy ideas — he was the first to offer a plan for universal health care, the first to call on Congress to pull funding for the war, and he led the charge that lobbyists have too much power in Washington and need to be reigned in.

The ideas were all bold and new for Edwards personally as well, making him a different candidate than the moderate Southerner who ran in 2004 while still in his first Senate term. But the themes were eventually adopted by other Democratic presidential candidates — and even a Republican, Mitt Romney, echoed the call for an end to special interest politics in Washington.

Edwards' rise to prominence in politics came amid just one term representing North Carolina in the Senate after a career as a trial attorney that made him millions. He was on Al Gore's short list for vice president in 2000 after serving just two years in office. He ran for president in 2004, and after he lost to John Kerry, the nominee picked him as a running mate.

Elizabeth Edwards first discovered a lump in her breast in the final days of that losing campaign. Her battle against the disease caused her husband to open up about another tragedy in their lives — the death of their teenage son Wade in a 1996 car accident. The candidate barely spoke of Wade during his 2004 campaign, but he offered his son's death to answer questions about how he could persevere when his wife could die.

Edwards made poverty the signature issue of both his presidential campaigns, and he led a four-day tour to highlight the issue in July. The tour, the first to focus on the plight of the poor since Robert F. Kennedy's trip 40 years earlier, also was an effort to remind voters that a rich man can care about the less fortunate. It came as Edwards was dogged by negative coverage of his personal wealth, including his construction of a 28,000-square foot house, his work for a hedge fund that advised the superrich and $400 haircuts.

But even through the dark days of summer and as Obama and Clinton collected astonishing amounts of money that dwarfed his fundraising effort, Edwards maintained a loyal following in the first voting state of Iowa that made him a serious contender. He came in second to Obama in Iowa, an impressive feat of relegating Clinton to third place, before coming in third in the following three contests.

The loss in South Carolina was especially hard because it was where he was born and he had won the state in 2004. But Edwards performed well enough to pick up 58 delegates.

I'm not sure that I understand your point and comments about Edwards, Crystal (and they appear to be a bit mean spirited). Just because he is a successful businessman and makes a lot of money does not mean that he can't have his heart in the right place. Pardon me, but most of the Presidents of this country have come from wealth. Some like Kennedy and FDR were truly great for the downtrodden and oppressed. Try not to hold Edwards financial success (which he EARNED, by the way) against him. A little respect goes a long way. Enough already.

Crystal, Edwards didn't drop this race because of uncovered personal corruption. Wow.
(thought I'd keep it short to save a little bandwidth).

Wherever Edwards goes, I go. I'm listening.

NEDRA PICKLER is an insider and not a favorite of Democrats for past treatment.

We have just suffered an 8.1 earthquake in America and the progresive blogosphere is being slow to "GET IT!"

Here's one take on the situation written I think before John announced his withdrawl............but there are many other reasons.

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/12492

http://therealnews.com/web/index.php?thisdataswitch=0&thisid=870&thisview=item

FISA: Protecting America or executive power grab? Republican Bruce Fein on the failure of both parties to stop the government from spying on its citizens

Wednesday January 30th, 2008

Bruce Fein is the founder of the American Freedom Agenda, that works to restore constitutional checks and balances. He served in the U.S. Justice Department under President Reagan and has been an adjunct scholar with the American Enterprise Institute, a resident scholar at the Heritage Foundation, a lecturer at the Brookings Institute, and an adjunct professor at George Washington University.

I don't understand why Edwards would get out before Super Tuesday. He has already paid the money to register and could still garner delegates. I wonder about his wife. As far as his money and haircuts are concerned if that's the problem, there is no reason to vote for any of them in Congress or for President because most of them are filthy rich, Dem and GOP alike, with that kind of reasoning none of them could possibly stand up for the people. No, I am with Pat C I will still follow him. Believe me if this group of vipers could have found any real corruption about Edwards beside his house which he worked for and his haircut we would have heard about it by now.

My concern is a prediction Claudia Dikinis made in 2004 and that was "the fix is in and John McCain has been promised and will be the next President." I thought the same thing when McCain started campaigning for Bush in 2000 after all that awful SC attack.

Sally, gettin' a bit giddy here! Could we be seeing a resurgence/comeback of the 40 years dormant Kennedy clan? Hot damn!

The presidential hopefuls are peripheral tools in this development. Will there be momentum?

Robert Kennedy came all the way to my son's high school to speak on global warming and the environment. He spoke outdoors under a windy tent in the morning sun to inform the young, his voice quavering and stuck like it is, passionate to 'rouse himself and do something to INCLUDE the young as reachable and worthwhile!
What a doll! (as they say in New Yawk).

Sally, gettin' a bit giddy here! Could we be seeing a resurgence/comeback of the 40 years dormant Kennedy clan? Hot damn!

The presidential hopefuls are peripheral tools in this development. Will there be momentum?

Robert Kennedy came all the way to my son's high school to speak on global warming and the environment. He spoke outdoors under a windy tent in the morning sun to inform the young, his voice quavering and stuck like it is, passionate to 'rouse himself and do something to INCLUDE the young as reachable and worthwhile!
What a doll! (as they say in New Yawk).

Sally, I don't think John McCain will be the next president. I think it will be Hillary Clinton, and I think Bloomberg might enter the race next month after Super Tuesday. This election year is going to be very turbulent.

http://therealnews.com/web/index.php?thisdataswitch=0&thisid=867&thisview=item

Pakistan army and the tribal territories

Aijaz Ahmad: Pakistan army fights Talibanization of Pakistan, but mixed agenda in tribal areas

Actually, in Pakistan there are two different problems so far as the Pakistani state is concerned. On the one hand, there are large forces in Pakistan which have committed to creating an Islamicist system inside Pakistan. This is an internal problem, and the Pakistan military seems to be quite determined to fight that out, militarily if necessary. The other problem is connected with the al-Qaeda and the Taliban and the war in Afghanistan. In this, the Pakistan government seems to have two or three different positions that I think need to be understood quite clearly. One is that there are foreign elements in Pakistan, not Pakistani, not Afghan, but other foreign elements, above all, a very large Uzbek contingent, in north Waziristan, which is a base for the al-Qaeda. And the Pakistan government is quite prepared to confront those people militarily, to go to the people in Waziristan and say to them, “Look, these are foreigners. They are destabilizing your region. They are destabilizing Pakistan. They are creating trouble for us in the world.

More at the link...

McCain is a madman. His chart fits, as I recall, with the repug party's progressed full moon and the u.s. prog sun as we know (like a boil in full bloom~ugh.)

Just because he got a promise doesn't mean the good fairy won't turn out to have hairy legs beneath that pink tutu revealing skid marks on his underwear.

(Sally, couldn't find McC's wife's birth data anywhere, just sometime in '54).

"I wonder about his wife."

As do I Sally. She is missing from the spotlight, replaced by her daughter.

May the highest power save us from McCain.

I have been crying all morning.

I didn't hear it but I guess Obama just made a statement about the Edwards withdrawal. I asked someone a couple of weeks ago, who knows the Edwards, how Elizabeth was and he said he was sure she was fine. Don't know that I believed him.

I don't have McCain's wife's birthdata, never could find it just the Wikipedia year and that she was 17 years his junior. My Scottsdale friends say her health is bad. I've heard gossip that there was a drinking and/or drug problem there but I don't know that as a fact and it could just be gossip. She is an attractive woman but seems frail.

Oh, I do love this stuff. World's oldest city found:
http://tinyurl.com/3bjlnu

What'll the fundies say about that?

I do too Shy, I was just reading that a minute ago. So many things being unearthed these days, I figure we will find airplanes from 100,000 years ago and realize we've had a high tech culture before and destroyed it. People are so short sighted, don't realize they can destroy their civilization just as they did thousands of years ago.

As you know Mercury went retrograde a couple of days ago, the way to get the most out of a Mercury retrograde is to listen carefully very carefully to what others are saying, pay attention to what you are doing and where you are putting things so they won't get lost. Be sure to confirm all appointments and re-read everything you put to paper (or computer)

Mars is going direct this afternoon, it's stationary now be careful of accidents over the next couple of days and if you get mad bite your tongue until at least Saturday

PatC, Sally, the Edwards have 2 very young children let's not forget. Kindergartens, lunchpails, braids, freckles, composition books, library paste, kid runny noses and fevers, not enough hours in a day.
Let's not jump to conclusions about Elizabeth.

Edwards knew sabotage when he saw it and the MSM wouldn't let him function beyond 'water boy'.

What a hoot!

Patb you should be a comedy writer, Stewart and Colbert could use you.

"Just because he got a promise doesn't mean the good fairy won't turn out to have hairy legs beneath that pink tutu revealing skid marks on his underwear."

Well JRE's dropping out of the race was a really lousy way to wakeup this morning, before coffee even. My son was telling me the news as I stumbled toward the coffee maker.

Now that the shock is wearing off, my vote is up for grabs and neither Obama or The Clinton's have sold me that they're going to lead us out of this mess and bring equity to the People. Nor have I heard that they have said they would role back the Bush powers. Who gets the shadow government the Dickster runs?

JRE being uber rich didn't bother me, or his $400.00 dollar haircuts (I've seen women drop that and more), or his 28,000 sq ft home, (or Al's green mansion). JRE has used his boon in life to help others, so has Al Gore.

Oh terrific, MSNBC just announced Bush is coming to California to push his economic stimulus package, hope he stays in SoCal. The whole area shuts down when his majesty comes a visiting. Big choppers, armored vehicles, dark water boyz running around. Just lovely, that'll wreck our economy for the next several days.

I did see both Obama's and Hillary's response to JRE leaving the game. The January 31 debate looks to be last one, should be a doozy.

ok back to work for me.

Today's richly pithy shuttershot from my Jungian love:

http://kristo.com/papa.html

...must be on the teevee.

Cap'n Sally, Velikovsky speculated that if the region ever became accessible for digging, the Arctic would probably yield some amazing artifacts. This, of course, was based on his argument that not only has the magnetic field reversed, but that the earth is in a different position today than it was eons ago. It will be interesting to see if/when enough of this tragic ending of permanent ice at the poles actually produces some artifacts that will spark expeditions. Maybe that's when we'll find the intergalactic space port or something.

PatB I had to delete one of your comments because it came really close to a personal attack on one of the bloggers. This is such a small community of bloggers I completely ban personal attacks that could be taken as hurtful off the blog. Hope you understand.

My bad. Knew it. Did it anyway. Sorry.

Sally, thanks for the intervention. I am having a Mars attack day. Mars has gone stationary opp. my Jupiter (lord of the Asc. in the 12th), so if I had any doubts about the legitamcy of astrology, they have been dispelled! Hahaha.

PatB, no hard feelings.

How about this -- too add to your comment about McCain, Sally. McCain has the nod, wins the primary and names Jeb Bush as his running mate (a condition of his win). Now, that would mean that the Bush cabal really doesn't leave office! And, what if McCain, in ill health, has to step down. Voila! Another Bush!

Alright, i think i'm going to be sick.

Hey Karen, my fantasy, Al Gore comes riding in. I need positive imaginings today. The scenario you depict is too horrifying for humanity. McCain/Bush would enable the USA to continue on its march of slaughter and carnage, you know spreading freedom and liberty. Course McCain/Lieberliar would do the same thing. Who knows maybe pretty boy millionaire can buy it, I hear he has JEB's team on his staff. Maybe Romney/Bush?

I am really sick of these thugs.

Good critical thinking Karen! Bingo!
Merc & Mars have me becalmed................Printer doesn't work!
So much for tomorrow's deadline!
Unless I can coax it to work...........
after noon coffee. I know i now it 1:55 EST.!

Karen, all this seems to add up to one thing:
Alchemy.
Clearly our gov't is no longer a functioning organism. Whenever we look at this den of thieves called 'congress' calling for them to get a spine (pelosi actually claims she cleaned up corruption in congress), and all the rest of this Macabre Distorted Creepshow, I think it means our national collective citizenry need to get a spine.

California is the perfect example of late. They are in direct touch tackle to defend their state. What more evidence do we need? Whenever we look at them we feel frightened and helpless, but not if we get a spine and do it ourselves. We have no other option.
Besides, it feels better than being victimized by them. LOTS better.

OMG KAREN! I was just thinking the same thing ... the fix ... McCain/Bush (Jeb) ... now that they've gotten rid of Edwards they have the perfect excuse for McCain to win ... The pundits will say ... "Americans aren't ready for a woman or a black President" (when they steal the election again, of course). And don't expect McCain to be around for long ... with his health I'm sure they could find a doctor willing to administer an overdose of vitamins, for example (I'm being facetious).

Yeh, I got the printer to work...sort of ,It's a little crooked but it'll pass.
Just in passing one more comment on global warming............
I just saw a weasel out the kitchen window while pouring the coffee. It DIDN"T turn white, this winter! Clearly outlined against the white ice on the edge of the stream, it was almost black, long skinny.......bigger than a ferret!
I haven't seen one since 16 1/2 years ago when I first moved here. It was white with a black tail just like King Louis XIVs robe, ( ermine)I thought my siamese cat had gotten out until I saw her in the house.
Now backto work.

Curious about these comments...

I just read a novel about this very thing. It's called "The Shell Game" by Steve Alten. I read about it on Carolyn Baker's site.

In the novel the President is named "McKuin" and his Veep is "Ellis Prescott." Interesting, eh? Mr. Alten has pre-empted the campaign a bit (like ye olde lone gunmen did 9-11). Sad that it's oh-so-predictable... But then, empires don't innovate. They just try what didn't work yesterday believing that they just didn't do enough of it then...

(And God continues to laugh along with Daniel Quinn, as these strange jenius-ignorants keep doing the insaney-dance...)

Edwards and Nader: One out, one in?
John Edwards is apparently calling it quits. And it looks like Ralph Nader -- "Darth Nader" to Democrats who can't forget the 2000 showdown -- is thinking about joining the campaign circus. Again.

First, Edwards. If he does follow through with the reported planned announcement in New Orleans later today, the timing is curious. Edwards' 2008 campaign never really caught on, in large part because he couldn't get enough air to breath in a room in which Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama sucked up nearly all the oxygen. And he was further confounded by Obama's policies, which occupied much of the same populist ground that Edwards was standing on.

But why drop out now? Edwards' last loss was Saturday in South Carolina. His showing in Florida on Tuesday was irrelevant. And with Feb. 5 just around the corner, he might have been able to grab enough delegates to act as a drag on both of the other candidates.

Unless the one-time trial lawyer is planning to throw his lot in with Obama in an effort to stop Clinton's march to the nomination. Or, conversely -- and harder to imagine -- join up with Clinton to seal it for the New York senator.

As for Nader, the legendary consumer advocate ...http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/

"Do not turn away!" - John Edwards

http://www.johnedwards.com/watch/thank-you/

"For decades, we stopped focusing on those struggles. They didn't register in political polls, they didn't get us votes and so we stopped talking about it. I don't know how it started. I don't know when our party began to turn away from the cause of working people, from the fathers who were working three jobs literally just to pay the rent, mothers sending their kids to bed wrapped up in their clothes and in coats because they couldn't afford to pay for heat.

We know that our brothers and sisters have been bullied into believing that they can't organize and can't put a union in the workplace. Well, in this campaign, we didn't turn our heads. We looked them square in the eye and we said, "We see you, we hear you, and we are with you. And we will never forget you." And I have a feeling that if the leaders of our great Democratic Party continue to hear the voices of working people, a proud progressive will occupy the White House."

Nancy posted this on Starlight News a few minutes ago.

"John Edwards is now out of the race. The constricting Saturn square to his Moon/Jupiter conjunction of November 2007 through February 2008 was simply too much to overcome during this very tightly contested campaign. For a few days, he may bask in the warmth of his loyal supporters with his progressed Moon conjunct his natal Jupiter, but during the second half of February, he may go through a somewhat melancholic withdrawal (Saturn square his Moon). Come March, everything will change for Edwards, when Uranus moves into a square with his Sun and semisquares his Venus, further accented by a quincunx to the Sun from Jupiter at the end of the month. The transformative wind will sweep him up even further from late September through January 2009, pushing him onto a new and unexpected lifepath."

Elizabeth Edwards — Date of Birth: July 3, 1949

Pat C....Uranus is now squaring my sun/saturn, too...hope my new path has a golden pot somewhere on it! but noooooo....saturn will soon be squaring my sun /saturn after that!

However, I am losing weight easily now, eating right, focused, following the program....that's a first!

I'm way ahead of you Karen, this was what I thought last summer, that McCain would come back and Jeb would be his VP pick. I haven't wanted to even think of it. The other concern I have is Bill Clinton's statement that a Hillary/McCain ticket would be great. That would be no party division, we would all be one happy family and no one would vote but the politicians. A real slick way of making this a GOP/Corporate/DLC dictatorship

We need a kink in their works, maybe that's what the Kennedy's are trying to do, maybe not. Who knows anymore. I just know and feel we need a miracle particularly with the Saturn/Uranus opposition coming to election day. This is one of the most repressive aspects around. Look to see what happens or is happening around the world.

Judi, I want to know your diet!

Sally, there are many who are afraid there will be no election.

Sally, if Clinton said McCain would be a good VP for Hillary the Mad Hatter's Tea Party is in full swing. What we've suspected is true, then.
If Clinton isn't bothering to put a decent covering on this baboon's rear end, he's way too confident we have no choice in the matter.

One more thing Sally, when did he say this and where did you hear it?

Mc Cain now sounds like Ghouliani's echo, or vice versa - Islamic terrorists and war. Bush is probably looking to scare up some terrorists, or attack on Iran, in order to boost their popularity.

It's the Republican hamster wheel ride.

This is better.

http://www.digyourowngrave.com/flight-of-the-hamsters/

http://baltimorechronicle.com/2008/012908Hogue.shtml
Follow the Money? God forbid.
Why was the cashing out of billions of dollars just before the 9/11 attacks never investigated?
by Jim Hogue
With this in mind, we suggest that the reader follow the story of Mark Siljander (major coverage) on the one hand, and also follow the Times UK reports from Sibel Edmonds (verboten in the US mainstream press) on the other hand. Edmonds told me recently of the major foreign media outlets that had offered to report her story. Not one major outlet did so in the US. R.T. Naylor suggests, in his wonderful book Satanic Purses, that any major terrorist event that involves a lot of money is 'state terrorism,' and this is independently confirmed by Sibel Edmonds’ statements as to the enormous sums changing hands at the time of the 9/11 attacks. I suggest that her testimony to the Senate Intelligence Committee (Leahy and Grassley) gave the lie to the official financial myth of 9/11. If Bergman had been allowed to continue his investigation, I suggest that he would have uncovered the same thing. Note that the drug money and other illicit transactions described by Edmonds occurred during the same time period, and the amounts in the billions are comparable.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andy-borowitz/nader-warns-bloomberg-not_b_84034.html

Nader Warns Bloomberg Not to Run

That was the message delivered today to New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg by consumer activist Ralph Nader, who warned Mr. Bloomberg, “If some egomaniac is going to jump in and screw up this election, it’s going to be me.”

Mr. Nader established an exploratory committee for a presidential bid today to let Mr. Bloomberg know that there was “only room for one self-absorbed gas-bag in the 2008 race.”

At a press conference in Washington, Mr. Nader said that voters who are looking for someone to spoil the 2008 election should be suspicious of Mr. Bloomberg’s motives: “Michael Bloomberg has a track record of winning elections, not screwing them up.”

More at the link….

Clinton said this in one of his speeches leading up to the SC primary. Now whether he said it for Obama to bite I don't know, but Obama didn't bite and Bill did say it.

Obama had a powerful campaign stop today with an overflow crowd. Hillary is supposed to be here tonight I've wondered if she had as many

This really is a must read.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/JA30Dj02.html

THE ROAD TO HYPERINFLATION, Part 2
A failure of central banking
By Henry C K Liu

Regarding qop's excellent post, google link might prove interesting.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&q=Krongard%2FBush&btnG=Search

Thanks qop!

...what a day! Bummer. If this is what the rest of my life is going to be like (and everybody else's ...), it's welcome to Shittsville. Oy.

(((Marta)))

Here is another follow-up to qop's article.

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/01/30/zelikow-interfered/

Thanks PatC ... I needed that hug ... back to you! :)

And, as somebody much wiser once said ....

Good night, and good luck.

You'll enjoy the music as much as the sentiment, I think. (Doggonnit! my dog just pooted beside me ... I'm going to bed!) Jeez, what an end to the day, kinda ended as it started, in a big stink!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKv6UnIaK2M

Oops ... was on my way to bed and found this on the internet ... my day started with Edwards, so I guess it's appropriate that it end with Edwards. (Sally, by the way, Edwards stated on the conference call that he feels the McCain nomination is locked up. How 'bout that!).

Just got off a conference call w/John & Elizabeth Edwards Updated at 11:59 PM

About these advertisements
Edited on Wed Jan-30-08 04:10 PM by Truth2Tell
I just hung up from a conference call with supporters of the Edwards campaign. Both John and Elizabeth spoke.

Some of my notes:

Elizabeth Edwards introduced John:

"...I felt in 2004 that we left the campaign without leaving a mark... not this time... a lot of the policies on the table are the result of John..."

John Edwards:

"We were just and righteous and correct in what we tried to do for the country..."

Decision not about money, wants to unite the Party, believes McCain has the Rep nom locked up. "My withdrawal was not money driven... had nothing at all to do with money... it was based on my belief that continued battle was not going to serve our country well... when it's a two person race someone emerges quickly... it's very clear to me that McCain is the Republican nominee..."

"...I wish you could understand how hard this is inside of me..."

Poverty will be the issue on which Edwards will continue to push for concessions. "I have not endorsed anyone... I pressed them (Obama and Clinton in conversation in the last few days) on details of what they would do about poverty... we have very detailed commitments from both of them... both of them have given me their word to do certain things if elected, at the convention... "

No endorsement before Tuesday. "I will be meeting with each of them... there is no chance it will happen (any endorsement) before Tuesday, or even after... "

Take a breather and don't make any support decision yet. "I'm counseling you all to keep your powder dry... to take time, take a deep breath, don't be in a hurry (in choosing who to support)..."

"It's impossible to know what tomorrow holds..."

That's what I wrote down and I think it covers the key items discussed.

There is no doubt that McCain has been positioned by someone and given a lot of exposure over the last few years. Saturn is transiting over his Sun through the spring and early summer. His Sun is at 6"02' Virgo and Saturn is now retrograde at 7"00 so it is retrograding back to his Sun. The upcoming Saturn/Uranus opposition falls very close to his natal Saturn and his progressed Neptune. McCain's Moon is at 27 degrees Capricorn conjunct the US Pluto, his natal Pluto is 28 Cancer opposing the US Pluto. There are some very strange vibrations around this election, in fact this whole primary process.

His progressed Moon is coming to an opposition to his Saturn and progressed Venus (Iowa) just passed a square to his Saturn and that's a disappointment. One can dig and dig and make an astrological case for McCain, but it is still a weak case; but energy notwithstanding I think he will end up somehow being the nominee and perhaps the President. No wonder he was kissing and hugging GWB a few years ago.

I think it was a good thing that John and Elizabeth Edwards got out of the race, good for them. After what they have been through they don't need to keep going through this nasty mess.

Here's a good follow up to Edwards statement of yesterday, in The Black Commentator
BTW They need subscribers to keep going. I think they provide a unique and wise perspective, particularly given the current situation.

http://www.blackcommentator.com/262/262_cover_african_world_white_house_and_mlk.html

A morning tonic from Ralfee Finn

http://stariq.com/Main/Articles/P0008493.HTM

And MORE intrigue from DU!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3163238

And here it is again!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/
chose Undercutting US foreign policy, Bill Clinton praised foreign autocrat.( the url was NYT too long to post!)

According to this source, comparing policies, Hillary is the greener candidate.

http://www.grist.org/candidate_chart_08.html?source=liveearth

Very insightful posts here this morning. That link that QOP posted to the article concerning Clinton's mining connections is a preview of things to come with Pluto in Capricorn, just like the link that Shylurker posted yesterday about that ancient city that was unearthed in Egypt yesterday. Pluto represents things like secrets, digging, revealing, and the sign Capricorn, an earth sign, is ruled by Saturn which governs mines, minerals, metals(gold and silver), anything buried deep within the earth. So what is buried(secrets)will be revealed by Pluto. Watch out also for when planets like Mars and Uranus makes stress aspects to Saturn in Capricorn, because this can also signify earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions.

Here's a little hope from the Cosmic Path website, for those who are straining under the corporate yoke.

Right Livelihood is due to be the next stage in collective evolution. This results when a sufficient amount of people all over the world awaken to the fact that they're here for so much more than to be worker drones in the Machine; that life is more magical than it seems, and there is a powerful evolutionary flow which, like a river, can sweep us out of limitation into connection with all things. Right Livelihood is something every one of us has power over. Instead of waiting for the world to change, change.

http://www.thecosmicpath.com/

I'm befuddled at the reasons why anyone would want to support a Republican candidate this year in the general elections, when it is plain as the face on your nose, that the Bush administration, in its almost 8 year rule has brought this country to its knees. Another Republican administration could only pulverize it now. I know all the candidates are running around chanting "change, change" (Mitt Romney in particular), but it's just lip service. They don't offer any suggestions as to what they are going to change, and how they are going to do so. Giuliani is still living in the past with his 9/11 invocations, so that's not change, and Mc Cain with his "bomb,bomb,bomb" mentality is definitely not change. So what do their supporters see in their policies to inspire them to stick with the Republican party? I'm puzzled.

Yesterday was a day of mourning for lots of us over the removal of the last good man standing, and today and personally determined to search and find those indicators that good people are not a rarity at all.
When my heart is breaking I sometimes resort to sarcasm when inside the feeling is loss, in this case the loss of Edwards and lose tolerance when such a good man receives an additional kicking, a personal kick in the ribs while grieving, which personally, in the name of basic decency, viscerally couldn't do do to anyone. This event feels like being finally swamped and drowning beneath waves of ignorance, a score for the lying suits triumphing over wholesome spirit. The spin wins. The manipulation wins.
Edwards implied he may not "endorse" anyone. I hope he doesn't. That in itself would be his clear and deeply loving non-statement of the truth.
I think people come around sooner or later to what is really happening, and I could be more patient and forgive them for not seeing and myself for a lack of skill whilst pushing down a lump in my throat.

Sally, don't forget the u.s. moon (all of us) have an astonishing appointment in '09 with chiron, jupiter and neptune AND solar arc venus conjuncting. That sure doesn't look like any McCain, does it!
Somehow '09 will find us pretty cheered up.

Something very right will happen for all of us.

http://www.indiadaily.com/editorial/12-26-04.asp

Remote viewing Tibetan monks see Extra Terrestrial powers saving the World from destroying itself in 2012

Remote viewing is nothing new in Tibetan monasteries. For thousands of years remote viewing in the middle of other spiritual activities have dominated Tibetan culture. What some Indian tourists came to learn from a few Tibetan monasteries under the current Chinese rule is extremely alarming and fascinating.

According to these tourists remote viewers are seeing world powers in the course of self-destruction. They also see that the world will not be destroyed. Between now and 2012 the world super powers will continue to engage in regional wars. Terrorism and covert war will be the main problem. In world politics something will happen in and around 2010. At that time the world powers will threaten to destroy each other.

Between 2010 and 2012, the whole world will get polarized and prepare for the ultimate dooms day. Heavy political maneuvers and negotiations will take place with little progress.

In 2012, the world will start plunging into a total destructive nuclear war.

And at that time something remarkable will happen, says, Buddhist monk of Tibet. Supernatural divine powers will intervene. The destiny of the world is not to self-destruct at this time.

More at the link...

Note that the Monks did not use the term Extra Terrestrial at all.

Pluto in Capricorn doesn't just affect the United States or our Declaration of Independence Chart of 1776, it affects the entire world and the shift into that quadrant certainly has some ramifications just as shift of any outer planet into a new sign.

There is an order to the Universe and the planets continue activating aspects and issues related to the moment of different events throughout it's history, affecting individuals, communities, countries, events etc.

I don't have the time this morning to trace the entire world's history through the events of the outer planets, but I will address Pluto. We all know the revolution that happened the last time Pluto was in Capricorn but there was more than the American Revolution. There was also a world wide (among other things) revolution against the multi-nationals of the day, those were the East India Trade Companies (there were several and they controlled the world at that time.) Now, let me jump forward to the late 50's early 60's when Pluto in Virgo began the trine to the 1770's transit of Pluto in Capricorn. The first trine to Pluto in Capricorn was during the Civil War when Pluto was in Taurus, another revolt throughout the world against the control of people by multi-nationals and the enslavement of people, which was the cause of the Revolution in the 1770's. Just like the Revolution, the Civil War had a world wide impact on the rest of the world.

In the late 50's when Pluto went into another trine with Capricorn, one could hear the beginning sounds of the "revolution" of the 60's through the songs and poetry of the Beatnik generation (forerunner to the Hippies.) Those poems and songs spoke of hypocrisy by the mainstream and the restrictions imposed by corporations and the government. The beginnings of that unrest spread over the world.

Hopefully I've been able to give you a picture of what is coming with this new Pluto transit through it's own Revolutionary sign of Capricorn, in a trine to the Taurus Pluto of 1850 and 60's of the Civil War. In a trine to the Virgo Pluto of the 1960's which began with a new type of President who spread inspiration (not unlike the Civil War President.)

The 1960's was full of assassinations, law suits against corporations, civil rights, women's rights, Elvis, Beatles, Alphie, Hippies, drugs and the war in Vietnam, Kent State and it all ended with a mainstream President thrown out, an end to the war in Vietnam as well as a demand that corporations give more benefits to workers and start cleaning up their pollution. In short another revolution of the status quo.

In the beginning of these transits the "status quo" tried to come down with a heavy hand, followed by the people rising up, then turmoil and rebellion of the people, then violence, then the people win and the "status quo" is forced to give ground, followed by new freedoms and a value and respect for the people ushering in a new period of peace and opportunities for prosperity, followed by a stealth growth of a new "status quo." Then the process is repeated. With Pluto moving into Capricorn puts the people in the position of looking for a "new inspiration."

Pluto transits back out of Capricorn by the Election, back into Sagittarius only to leave Sagittarius for over two hundred years. It is a bit unclear right now as to whether the people will be able to grab that new inspiration or stay in the "status quo" for this election cycle. It will absolutely be the "new generation" who will trust the inspiration of Obama, the rest of us are steeped in the "status quo" in one way or another. Certainly the Hippies were hated in the 1960's by the "status quo." The music, the attitudes, the demanding freedoms etc. It will only be the grandparents of the new generation who might remember the strains of the promise of the 60's that hear the inspiration brought by Obama. The true "old Hippies" (not tained by the mainstream) remember what was accomplished and sadly try to put the violence and unrest to the back of their minds.

The reality is there isn't a right or wrong. Some people resonate to a revolutionary spirit and some do not, that does not make them wrong. For some they would still be happy with slavery and see it as a viable system, there were slaves not in favor of the Civil War and were fearful of being free, that should not be a judgement against people who are happier in an authoritian society. That said, there is still going to be a revolt against the "status quo" and a new type of "hippy" will be born and the process will begin again. Pluto is in Capricorn.

N

Almost forgot, feb 09 also has SArc jupiter in that conjuction venus conjunct the moon of the u.s. since those natal conjunctions progress together in solar arc.

Dark humor: maybe we'll all win free plane tickets in a Get Out Now drive. (ha!)

Sally, that's what I meant about patience and sooner or later.

PatC, what you say about the Tibetans' view of things...Chogyam was asked about Aliens from 'out there'. In his usual cryptic style, he said, "I'm keeping an eye on them".
He also said he was returning as a Japanese scientist just for the fun of watching people take his statements too seriously.

Cap'n Sally, that was a wonderful piece you posted about Pluto going 'round. Thank you.

On another topic, I'll wait until the Dalai Lama speaks about what's expected for 2012.

I agree with Chogyam. Keep in mind that the Monks didn't use the term that the headline did.

Ooooooh Sally! Awesome stuff!

shy, I love him too.

This is a very good article on FISA.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/013108J.shtml

Telecom Group Key Player in Immunity Battle
By Matt Renner
t r u t h o u t | Investigative Report

Thursday 31 January 2008

A think tank with close ties to the telecommunication industry has been working with a key Democrat in the Senate on a domestic surveillance bill that would provide telecommunications companies with retroactive immunity for possibly violating federal law by spying on American citizens at the behest of the Bush administration.

Third Way, a non-profit "progressive" think tank that is funded and controlled by hedge fund managers, corporate lawyers and business executives has advised Sen. Jay Rockefeller on a domestic surveillance bill that includes immunity for telecommunications companies with which Third Way board members have close ties.

Rockefeller is the chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee and has been the leading Democratic proponent of granting immunity to telecommunication companies that allegedly gave spy agencies access to their communication networks and databases without a warrant.

"I think we will prevail," Rockefeller told the Politico on January 23, referring to the disagreement over retroactive immunity for telecoms, "it's a pretty bad idea to appear cocky ... I'm not pessimistic."

More at the link...

Always the afterthought. Back in '86 Kalu Rinpoche, who was in his early eighties at the time, brought the rare "Kalachakra" ceremony to the u.s. and parts of the world. It lasted four days, and its' purpose was the initiation of warriors in the 'great battle'. This ceremony has an impressive primordial symbol which spans the Ages or Kalpas like the mayans have. It occurred to me that these 'battles' are never THE battle, but reoccurring ones (could be wrong about that, just an intuition).
But everyone attending made a committment (a date) to be there. I remember CLEARLY a few things he said through a translator:
"Take special note of this day, and remember it." It was 11-09-86,late afternoon I think in Boulder, CO.
He also said the molacules in our bodies were being rearranged during the ceremony.

We each received a name to go with the event, mine was "Vajra appearance-emptiness". Appearances are empty. Good full empty.
The name given by my root teacher is "Rich Lady of Fearlessness". Everyone deserves a new name, since really, we're obviously more than these flat handles our parents gave us, although being given a name by them is an expression of their generosity to us.

molecules.

Thanks Shy, There isn't any doubt we will go into massive changes during this period of time but we come out of it better than when we went into it all. Pluto was well into Virgo when Kennedy was elected, it won't be well into Capricorn with this election. So I think there is a better than even chance that the status quo could win. McCain and the Clinton's represent that. The Clinton's were Hippies and children of the Pluto in Leo generation with a lot of whoopla of Leo, the "star" mentality. Nonetheless, they did resonate to the Hippie movement of change, not to the extent of Obama, but they could be the "change" bridge. Bill was elected with Pluto at the end of Scorpio, with Pluto in a sextile to Virgo so he started out bringing or trying to bring the opportunity to grasp the ideals of the 6's revolution with him, but then Pluto slipped into Sag in a trine to the Leo generation and they fell into the "star" winning is everything mindset, the "status quo" of that generation and it all became about image.

If Hillary wins, their time in the White House will be even more divisive than the first time. The "new" young generation will not like them and the mid-level generation will not trust them. The older generation (50 to 68) wants to believe they can take them back to the 90's, but they won't be able to do that.

McCain is trying to bring the Pluto in Cancer (late cancer) with him and the thing that needs to be watched is who he picks as his VP because that person will be picked by the Bushes and will be running the country. When Pluto first went into Cancer, opposing the US natal Pluto, there was a mini revoluton with the Roaring 20's, sadly the Robber Barons shut it down with prohibition and the depression, until they found their own inspiration in FDR who helped them to stand again. McCain's sub-conscious imagines he can bring back those days, he cannot, he will not have the support of the country and the angst for change among the younger generations will be huge.

(Just posted this, unsuccessfully. Hope this attempt doesn't produce a dupe.)

Bill Clinton is surely among the high rollers--but I have to wonder if someone isn't rolling him, too?
http://tinyurl.com/3b242l

Great further comments you just made, Cap'n Sally. The revolutions of 1848 have always interested me, and I wonder if their emergence (with the usual intellectual ferment, of course) has parallels with the appearance of the Beats a hundred years later.

Some really great posts, giving us a lot to think about!
I loved your run thru of pluto's history.....You know I think I feel more comfortable with Pluto in earth than fire! ( in spite of the difficulties we have to deal with!)
I wonder how those hormones are working out for Maria & Ahhhhnold now? If I were she, I would throw him out of the house after endorsing Mcinsane!

1848 Pluto was in late degrees Aries in a square to the US Pluto and that would have related to a period of testing, not necessarily winning, but testing with the seeds of winning being planted as they went forward to the Civil War and Pluto in Taurus. The same thing could be said of the Pluto in Libra (starting in the early 70's) by the time Pluto was in late degree Libra, it was clear that Reagan was not going to do anything about the environment and the "seeds" of winning that war were planted then as well. The Genisis of Gore's "Inconvenient Truth" information was collected in the late 70's. He thought he could make a run for President but was never able to get that far, obviously it was years before his time so people could hear what he had to say, but the seeds were planted then for today's issues to be address. I'm just not quite sure we are ready yet, it's soon, but I wonder if now. On Election Day Mercury and Pluto are in nearly an exact sextile and Mercury is in the exact place it was at the 2000 Election (29 Libra) only Mercury is direct and not retrograde at this election. Both Mercury and Pluto are at the critical degree of 29, and Jupiter is conjunct the 2000 Election South Node, pointing to a need to collectively review religious, political and business situations. At the very least on the Morning of Election 2008 people will have some flashbacks to the 2000 Election and re-think whatever position they have taken or who the cast their vote.

Thanks ever so much, Cap'n Sally, for taking the time to put 1848 in proper astro perspective. Yes, may those seeds grow and grow. And I'm hoping (as I'm sure all of us are) that the forward-going Mercury will result in people righting the great wrong done in 2000 when it was retrograde. Yes!

I suspect this illustrates current Merc - Mars activity.

Friend of mine has been busy all week with preparations for her grandau's third birthday.

Last night, she began making the frosting for the dozens and dozens of cupcakes she'd already made. It was 7-minute frosting which she decided to double to save time. She was whipping the frosting there in the double-boiler when it began growing and growing and growing, reminiscent of Vesuvius' eruptions. It spread over much of the kitchen before she could get it to stop.

California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger has said he expected to stay neutral in the race for the Republican presidential nomination, but apparently made a decision after Rudy Giuliani withdrew: “Schwarzenegger will endorse John McCain on Thursday, giving a boost to the Republican presidential front-runner six days before California’s high-prize primary. The two will appear at a news conference after touring a Los Angeles-based solar energy company and the governor will make his endorsement official, his senior aides confirmed.”

If I didn’t know better, I might think Mitt Romney was effectively giving up. As of today, his campaign concedes that it has purchased exactly zero TV time in Feb. 5 states. Romney spokesperson Kevin Madden wouldn’t even say if the campaign would put any ads on the air, though a campaign official told Greg Sargent this morning that Romney would be on the air, though he/she wouldn’t offer details.

Hillary Clinton picked up another Senate endorsement yesterday, when Sen. Patty Murray (D-Wash.) threw her support to the New York senator. Clinton now enjoys the support of most of the Democratic establishment in Washington state, which will caucus on Feb. 9, including the state’s other senator, Maria Cantwell.

The New York Post, Rupert Murdoch’s New York tabloid, endorsed Obama, despite Murdoch’s financial contributions to the Clinton campaign.

How serious were the financial difficulties facing the McCain campaign? “McCain ended the year with only $2.95 million cash on hand, and $4.52 million in debts. In short, it appears that McCain is on the verge of clinching the nomination despite the fact that he was broke just before voting began.”

Speaking of fundraising, the Obama campaign has apparently raised $32 million in January, with an average of more than $1 million a day. That’s pretty extraordinary, given that the candidates were raising that kind of money in a quarter.

Bob Novak still doesn’t like McCain or believe he’s a real conservative.

On a related note, Rush Limbaugh blamed McCain’s rise on the party’s “uninspiring” candidates, and a “fractured” party base. “There was no figure in our roster of candidates who rose up to challenge him or galvanize conservative support,” Limbaugh said on his show. “All the candidates on our side, for various reasons, are uninspiring or worse — and so, just as I predicted, the base has fractured.”

And “Meet the Press” had invited McCain and Romney to appear together for a two-person debate this Sunday. Romney immediately accepted, but McCain declined.

<http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/14423.html#more-14423

Robert Reich | America's Middle Classes Are No Longer Coping

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/013108B.shtml

Robert Reich writes for The Financial Times: "It is an election year and the US economy is in peril of falling into recession or worse. Not surprisingly, Washington is abuzz with plans to prevent it."

ON rHE EDGE OF THE CLIFF
Bruce K Gagnon

Things in the presidential horse race are lining up pretty much as one might expect - from a corporate perspective anyway.

The decks are being cleared to limit debate and blur focus. The remaining "viable" candidates now include John McCain who says we will be in Iraq for 100 years, Hillary who I once saw on "Face the Nation" saying "The American people need to relax, we are going to be in Iraq for a long time," and Mr. Obama who is now being "sold" to the public as the change agent. I still maintain that Hillary will be the Democratic party nominee and her choice for vice-president will be Obama. Don't expect anything from them. This thing is being scripted.

Kucinich supporters in Maine are feverishly sending emails around urging each other to still stand for him in the up-coming Maine caucus. The progressive Dems, as they call themselves, have a real challenge now to justify staying in that corrupt party. But most of them will likely find a way to do so as they delay the inevitable reality that their party is now a corporate appendage and virtually nothing more. Kucinich is being shoved out of the party for having dared run for president and speaking out against the Iraq occupation, for single-payer health care, and for impeachment. The Dems will now do to Kucinich what they did twice to Cynthia McKinney - run corporate controlled and "acceptable" candidates against him.

Original Content at http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_bruce_k__080131_on_the_edge_of_the_c.htm

http://www.examiner.com/a-1193102~Bush_2009_Budget_to_Freeze_Many_Programs.html

Bush 2009 Budget to Freeze Many Programs

.............

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/31/AR2008013101833_pf.html

Report: Military Unprepared for Domestic Threats

Hi all,

I've got my popcorn set for the 5pm pst 8 est Obama and Clinton debate in Los Angeles.
With Mercury rx.,opposes HRC Saturn, Mars on her Uranus I'm expecting some fireworks. Let's see how they do.

Sometimes I think the far left is just as rabid as the far right, seeing conspiracies everywhere, like little black helicopters under the bed. There must be a happy medium somewhere.

I noticed tonight on TV, that Mc Cain is a lefty, which means that if O wins the nomination, it will be one lefty up against another. This year is indeed a very strange one for the elections, and a lot of other things too. Much of the time I feel as if I'm in the Twilight Zone, or half into another dimension.

Morgana, I'll be watching CNN on my computer. Think they'll be doing a live broadcast like the last time. I'll probably have time to pop some corn with lots of butter. I hope it's a lively one, or I might fall asleep.

Tuning in, no popcorn but fab. pesto pizza, digesting!
Good getting down to nitty gritty on health care; mandate vs NT

Well, Hillary on immigration put me right to sleep!
Now fireworks, positive ones re: working for women's rights around the world.
It's getting better............

Whooops! She said it takes a Clinton to clean up after a Bush.......................No resolution! Bill DIDN"T clean up after Poppy he joined the corporation!

Well it just ended here on the West Coast on the Clinton/Obama Obama/Clinton ticket, no one said no, the party will be united.

Lot to digest of this kum by ya moment.

OMG! They both were awesome!

Been scrolling around since here was so quiet. It seemed to be the same wherever I went.
Guess since it's been decided for us the interest level has dropped?

I'll have more to say tomorrow about the debate, but for now I'll say this much - the more I see of Hillary, the more I dislike her - fake fake fake. In Chinese astrology her sign is the Pig, but I think she would make a better Weasel. I'll elaborate tomorrow.

To me, Obama always come across as more sincere, and authentic. Hillary will lie to cover her arse, and if she has to go up against Mc Cain about the Iraq war, she doesn't have a leg to stand on, because she voted like him. I really think that Obama will make a much better president, because he is a gentleman, but she is no lady. She is adept at browbeating her opponent, doesn't let him get a word in edgewise.
I'm off to bed now.

I agree Pat. We've been down so long........up looks really good!

Crystal, I got such a different impression.

qop, it sure does!!

http://www.bradblog.com/?p=5631

Huge Delay Expected In Calif. Super Tuesday Voting Results

Crystal, what does 'liking' someone really mean? It is so easy to diss those whose demeanors we don't like. Don't forget, Bush got elected by people who 'liked' him, thought he was really cool to have a beer with. Geez...so much for that. I wouldn't want to have a beer with anyone wanting to have a beer with bush.

I honestly don't give a ratsass about liking someone we elect...I just want to know they are competent to do the job. If I don't have to marry them, that's even better. So....Hilary isn't a charmer. Bush is, I've heard, in person, but then sociopathic people are often charming. take your pick.

Beautiful comment, Judi. I'm with you on that one!

I'm sad to hear Sally's prediction that the status quo might win this election year, and that if Billary wins it, she'll be more divisive than they were the first time they were in charge.

I seem to remember someone a few years ago predicting on this blog that this election year would be a joke. I say it would be just that, if it weren't that our lives weren't so acutely affected by it.

Moreover, when the government gives the telecoms immunity to spy on us, that status quo is pretty repressive.

Speaking of predictions, kudos to Sally for her prediction a few months ago that Giuliani wouldn't make it. Sally, you absolutely nailed that one.

I have 2 e-mails from Move-On asking me to choose, because they are going to come out with an endorse ment for Clinton or Obama today? tomorrow?.
I can't do to!........I just DON"T know!
I e-mailed Wolf requesting he ask them about nuclear power, but of course he didn't.
The debate was sponsored by "CLEAN COAL"!

Nearly every astrologer I know is predicting a Hillary win this year and there is no doubt that there is a great deal of power in her chart. She still has to weed her way through the 21 Neptune in Aquarius which set off the Sat/Nep opposition of last summer, (as a reminder it squares her Mercury and opposes her Saturn) The last ten days of stumbles by Hillary and Bill are a picture of the Neptune aspect and those stumbles might have been a fatal blow to Super Tuesday for her. She might not get a sweep. Aside from that Hillary goes into the summer with a strong chart (health, hers or Bills could become an issue this spring and summer.

All indications point to a McCain/Hillary match up in the fall, but there is something so wierd about this election season. McCain I think might be a put up job, he does not have the type of energies around him to carry him into the WH alone, he has to have help and will continue to need behind the curtains help.

Where Hillary has the energetic aspects in her chart, Obama has a mass of Karmic or destiny aspects and therein lies the problem with a prediction. I get right up to the election and the aspects almost form a wall of confusion around it, made more confusing if Hillary or McCain are the candidates, things just break down on election day.

Looking at the coming Super Tuesday, it will be done under the coming solar eclipse at 17 degrees Aquarius on Feb. 6, 2008, 10:44pm, Washington.

I have said in other posts that this Eclipse directly opposes the Sun Moon is the violent and dramatic eclipse of Aug. 1999. As an opposition, it could be interpretated as a fullfillment of the events set in motion by that eclipse. Certainly the vicious storms around the country and in China could be a result of this Eclipse, but there will be more events before the next week is over.

In Endorsing Obama, Kennedy Anoints a Prince and Tells Clintons To Cool It
Be sure to read the comments....#15 by Officer Thomas Porter is particularly interesting for it's historic experience in the life of Mr Porter. ( as it relates to the Kennedy Family)

http://www.motherjones.com/mojoblog/archives/2008/01/7013_in_endorsing_ob.html#comments

QOP and like I said "Obama" has the karmic aspects on his side. It isn't about pros or cons, he really has karma working for him. For me personally, I think the whole thing is fixed no matter who get in and I am positive that someone else is pulling all their strings and ours too for that matter. I've yet to give up hope that Gore will step in and he still might, I found out he still could

"The FBI is going after every aspect of this sub-prime mortgage scandal." This is such a good article.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0802/S00005.htm

Countdown Special Comment: On FISA and Telecom Immunity

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/01/31/countdown-special-comment-on-fisa-and-telecom-immunity/

...............

The Abrams Report: Is the Media Making This More of A Horse Race?

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/01/31/the-abrams-report-is-the-media-making-this-more-of-a-horse-race/

The 17 Aquarius eclipse that shadows over Super Tuesday is right on my natal Mercury in the 10th. No wonder I don't know what presidential candidate to vote for. :-} I was firm for Edwards--now what? I'm thinking of voting for Gravel in the primary--he's unwinnable but sensible.

Meantime, instead of sending my small contributions to either Hillary or Barack (they both have plenty of money)--I'm sending contributions to various good progressive candidates sponsored by Act Blue.

Now more than ever, we need a Congress with backbone to support the Constitution.

Barbara that's great! We need to get a solid majority.

............

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/01/opinion/01krugman.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Paul Krugman's Friday column in the NY Times...

The Edwards Effect
So John Edwards has dropped out of the race for the presidency. By normal political standards, his campaign fell short.
But Mr. Edwards, far more than is usual in modern politics, ran a campaign based on ideas. And even as his personal quest for the White House faltered, his ideas triumphed: both candidates left standing are, to a large extent, running on the platform Mr. Edwards built.
To understand the extent of the Edwards effect, you have to think about what might have been.
At the beginning of 2007, it seemed likely that the Democratic nominee would run a cautious campaign, without strong, distinctive policy ideas. That, after all, is what John Kerry did in 2004.
If 2008 is different, it will be largely thanks to Mr. Edwards. He made a habit of introducing bold policy proposals — and they were met with such enthusiasm among Democrats that his rivals were more or less forced to follow suit.
...
Unfortunately for Mr. Edwards, the willingness of his rivals to emulate his policy proposals made it hard for him to differentiate himself as a candidate; meanwhile, those rivals had far larger financial resources and received vastly more media attention. Even The Times’s own public editor chided the paper for giving Mr. Edwards so little coverage.
And so Mr. Edwards won the arguments but not the political war.
Where will Edwards supporters go now? The truth is that nobody knows.
...
One thing is clear, however: whichever candidate does get the nomination, his or her chance of victory will rest largely on the ideas Mr. Edwards brought to the campaign.

More at the link....

Old MAyfly.......Is Kucinich included in that list candidate needing $ support? He really needs help to win his Congressional seat again. The DLC is pitting candidates, ( & supporting them) to unseat him because he had the temerity to push impeachment. We NEED him there!

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/02/01/fisa/index.html

Glenn Greenwald:

The Senate's FISA agreement

In the Senate, Democratic and Republican leaders have, according to Congressional Quarterly and others sources, reached an agreement as to how to proceed on the FISA vote this Monday. There are currently numerous amendments pending to the Cheney/Rockefeller Senate Intelligence Committee bill, almost all of them introduced by Democrats (with one co-sponsored by Arlen Specter) and most of them (if not all) unacceptable to the White House and the GOP.

The essence of the new agreement is that most of the amendments will be subject to a simple up-or-down vote -- if they get 50 votes, then they pass -- while several of the amendments will require 60 votes to pass (allowing, in essence, the Republicans to filibuster those amendments without actually having to go to the Senate floor and engage in a real filibuster).

Senate Democratic leadership sources are trying to claim that this is some sort of victory for Senate Democrats, and echoing that sentiment, even some of the most insightful and knowledgeable around -- such as McJoan at Daily Kos -- are hailing the agreement as evidence that "Dems didn't cave" and that "they held tough." Unless there is something I'm overlooking, I don't understand that perspective at all.

It seems rather clear what happened here. There are certain amendments that are not going to get even 50 votes -- including the Dodd/Feingold amendment to strip telecom immunity out of the bill -- and, for that reason, Republicans were more than willing to agree to a 50-vote threshold, since they know those amendments won't pass even in a simple up-or-down vote.

But then, there are other amendments which might be able to get 50 votes, but cannot get 60 votes -- such as Feinstein's amendment to transfer the telecom cases to the FISA court and her other amendment providing that FISA is the "exclusive means" for eavesdropping -- and, thus, those are the amendments for which the GOP insisted upon a 60-vote requirement.

The whole agreement seems designed to ensure that the GOP gets everything they want -- that they are able to defeat all of the pending amendments which Dick Cheney dislikes, and to do so without having to engage in a real filibuster. In what conceivable way is this an instance of "Dems not caving" or "holding tough?"

More at the link....

Has anyone seen a chart for Inaugural 2009? Does it shed any light on the complex situation surrounding scheduled elections in November this year? Very interesting observations, Cap'n Sally. Cliff-hanger in more ways than one.

Sally, those bad voting machines are still in force all over the country.

This is certainly worth the read.

http://www.soothesayer.com/

Right, QOP, I had forgotten that the "bosses" are gunning for Kucinich's seat. How they'd love to get rid of him!

I'm going on Act Blue right now and see if Kucinich is listed.

Yep, just checked

>http://www.actblue.com

Kucinich is at the top of their contribution list.

Ok, last night's debate.

It is clear that Hillary's Achilles Heel in this campaign is the Iraq war. Every time the Q is put to her in a debate, instead of giving a straightforward answer, saying she made a mistake, or she was wrong and moving on, she tap dances around the Q, and then veers off into some other topic where she could shine. And when she gets on a topic where she shines, she's like a dog with a bone...blah blah blah. Not even the moderator can stop her, and I just want to yell "shut up already!" I am very concerned about any presidential candidate who is incapable of admitting a mistake, or saying that he/she was wrong, and moving on, because it might make them look weak. Does this remind you of someone else? Yes, he's sitting in the White House right now.

By contrast, when given a Q, Obama answers it, stays on point, and sometimes even injects a little humor into it.

Last night, when the Q about the Kennedys' endorsement for Obama arose, she chimed in with the endorsment of her set of Kennedys. But has anyone seen a Kennedy on stage publicly endorsing Hillary, or out on the campaign trail with her? Maybe I missed something.

Next, the trump card that she holds over Obama: her experience vs. his lack of. Frankly, after being First Lady for 8 years, and Junior Senator for 7, I don't find her accomplishments that impressive, and in fact, Obama has just as an impressive track record in his career if anybody would care to look, but no, they are content to pick up the mantra, and keep repeating it "inexperienced, inexperienced".

Next, I hear people echoing the sentiment that Obama and Hillary are the same, so it doesn't matter who wins the nomination. I disagree. Obama is an independent thinker, wheras Hillary is not, and since this is a political astrology website, all you have to do, is look at their respective birth charts. Hillary's is polarized in fixed water(Scorpio) bumping up against fixed fire (Leo). This is a person who runs hot and cold on issues. Add to that, an absence of the earth element in her chart, and you have a ship with an uneven keel. There is also a troubling lack of planets in Cardinal signs, which in astrology, shows a person's ability to take action and be decisive. So, obviously somebody is making her decisions for her. At times it could be Bill, but in the instance of the vote on the Iraq war, I'm willing to bet that Chuck Schumer, the Senior Senator from NY, and under whose protective wing she was placed as a Junior Senator, made that decision for her, or at least greatly infuenced it. He voted yes on the Iraq war. By contrast, Ted Kennedy, and Obama voted no.
Hillary's saving grace is her Moon in Pisces, which shows that she can empathize with the misfortunes of the downtrodden, and this comes out in her work with children with special needs.

So, I watch the debates, and how the candidates campaign to get a feel for them, and when I look at Hillary, I see someome clambering over people to get to the top, and when I watch Obama, I see his hand outstretched, bringing people to the top with him.
There are 2 things that were mentioned last night which I thought were of particular significance. Obama said that he wouldn't want a bunch of yes men as his advisors, because he thought that he might be wrong on certain issues, and could use different perspectives, and points of view before taking a decision. And when the Q was put to them about having each other as running mates if either one was nominated, Hillary without hesitation said yes, but Obama skirted the Q, and was non-comittal. The odds are 100 to 1 that he would choose Hillary as his running mate if he were nominated, and I think he would do well to find a running mate elsewhere, because I see Hillary as being more of a hindrance than a help to him. However, if Hillary is nominated, I think she would have to choose Obama as her VP, because his core support comes from a different demographic to hers, and he could boost support for her electability. Whether he will accept this position or not, remains to be seen, but I think it will be very difficult for him to work under Hillary.

Right, I know many of you are still waiting for the Messiah, but the only person I see in the line-up who can bring real change is Obama, and perhaps the sheer wave of positive energy that he is riding may take him to the top. I also see a parallel between him and the future King of England, Prince William. I think William will revolutionize the role of the Monarchy when he becomes king, minimizing the pomp and ceremony aspect of it, and emphasizing closer, and more direct contact with his subjects. Likewise, I think Obama will make his office more transparent, and will be a truly Democratic President, for the people, by the people, and will encourage more participation from the masses, because he's a good listener. Hillary is all about herself(mememe.) She couldn't even resist giving her website a plug at the end of the debate last night.

I wonder if they will give us the dream ticket?

These are some of the same reasoms that are pulling me along for Obama.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/01/28/080128fa_fact_packer

My dream ticket would be Obama/Kucinich, or Obama/Edwards.

Crystal,

"Right, I know many of you are still waiting for the Messiah, but the only person I see in the line-up who can bring real change is Obama, and perhaps the sheer wave of positive energy that he is riding may take him to the top."

Messiah? I think the folks on AW are smarter then that, have eyes wide open, and are looking for the best choice.

Obama, Clinton or McCain, Romney, Huckleberry ah shucks nice burka. eeeeeww

Obama has caught the wave let's see how he rides it.

Crystal, I haven't posted much in a while but was called to respond to your post.

To respond to a few of your points:
1) Make no mistake about it, every politician's answer is a calculated one - calculated to put themselves in a favorable light and/or highlight their strengths. Don't ALL successful people do that? Especially when the media is concerned and EVERYTHING and anything that can be exagerated, will be.
2) Caroline & Ted Kennedy have publically endorsed Hillary - Caroline in a NY Times Op Ed pieces and Ted in a publicized speech.
3) Although astrology is a great guideline, I do not think it is the ultimate predictor of whether a person will take action or be decisive, etc. Remember we are talking about real, living human beings, not interpretations of what they might do based on their astrological make-up. I see many things turning out contrary to what astrologers suggest. I have seen this happen in my own life. You are what you believe and choose to be.
4) I don't see Obama as more humble than Hillary. I don't see Hillary as a me-me-me person anymore than Obama. Hillary has her sense of humility. She seems to be able to take negative criticism and inject humor.
5) I do agree that Obama has a wonderful track record. I love the guy madly, am terribly impressed by his brilliance, his ability to think on his feet, by the prospect of change, by his competence. That being said, Hillary DOES have more experience. She has lived longer, been an attorney longer, has been a successful advocate for children (it was mentioned on Nancy's Blog that her first publication after law school on children's rights is often referred to in the literature), and, it should be no small matter that SHE HAS BEEN IN THE WHITE HOUSE FOR 8 YEARS WATCHING AND PROBABLY ASSISTING HER HUSBAND PRESIDE OVER THE U.S. AT TIMES (I am not raising my voice here, only being emphatic).
6) I don't think Hillary's answer on why she voted for giving the president a blank check to go to war was avoiding the issue. She made the best decision she could with the facts available at that time. I, myself, was shocked at the proposal of war, but choose to believe that my president and his administration probably knew what they were doing. BIG WAKE-UP CALL. Does this show that Hillary is more of a hawk than Obama & Ted Kennedy? Probably so. Does this show she wants to protect her country and stabilitze the world situation? Probably so. Does this make her George W. Bush, Jr.? I highly doubt it.
7) All that being said, I would not be disappointed if Obama was nominated. I would be excited and thrilled, but also a little worried, due to the amount of racism still around and the prospect of someone actually assassinating him (also for his progressiveness as well as his race). Should that stop him from doing it, though? No. I didn't stop Bhutto and many others.
8) I would be less excited if Hillary gets the nod, but would be happy and secure in the knowledge that she is one capable lady, who isn't perfect but has integrity and the ability to think well, on her feet and otherwise, and is humble enough to get advice. I had heard that the reason her health plan stagnated was because she would not compromise. I don't know if that is true. If it is, she may have been trying to prove herself too hard. That was 8 years ago and she has come a long way since then.
9) I agree that Obama would not ask Hillary to be VP and I don't think she would accept it, plain and simple. I think there is a much better chance of Hillary asking Obama, and I wish she would, and I wish he would accept. He is just an amazing man and that came through at the last Democratic Convention. He is the most exciting leader to come along in a long time (I felt that way about Howard Dean, then realized his limitations - but his courage to speak against the Bush administration was beyond admirable). Obama may be young, but I think he is ready enough and brilliant enough to be a great president.
10) I think Hillary's answer about being open to that kind of ticket was, as she said, in the interest of what was best for the country. I don't think she would rush into the decision but I think she would lean towards it and do it if so advised.

By the way, sorry for taking up so much bandwidth and thanks for giving me a platform to express myself. I'm a 5-planet Pisces with a moon/pluto conjunction in Leo opposite Mercury in Aquarius, and t. Pluto is currently opposing both n. Chiron and n. Saturn. I am trying hard to see things clearly like we all are.

I remember seeing that there is a VOC moon at 12 noon Inauguration Day 2009. Please feel free to double check me on this.

Which could mean that if McCain wins, he would likely not finish his term. Which could be dangerous, if he ends up picking someone like Huckster--or worse yet, LIEberman as his running mate. (War with Iran, anyone?)

Come to think of it, between Huckster and LIEberman, I'm not sure who's worse.

I don't think McCain will pick Jeb Bush; that would be too brazen. I think Romney would fit that bill just fine; he is pretty much identical to any Bush. Romney reminds me more of Poppy than anyone else.

The good news, insofar as it can found, is if there is a Hillary/Obama ticket, we may end up with Obama as president one way or the other.

Even if Hillary ends up with the upper hand on Wednesday, I don't think she will sweep Super Tuesday. The polls that I'm seeing point to Obama winning Illinois and likely Georgia and Alabama.

Astrology is the study of energy but energy can go a lot of different directions, a person, depending upon her/his environment and culture, even gender, will use it in different ways from another. Astrology, like any other discipline is true to the old axiom, "a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing." I agree with Morgana, there isn't a perfect person for the job. Abraham Lincoln had hardly any experience to be a country lawyer much less a President, Hoover on the other hand had a ton of experience and he was a terrible President as was Grant. There isn't any one person who will be able to stop the train wreck coming down the rails. The fact of the matter is, there is always a train wreck in the making somewhere and there is always solid ground behind it.

Nearly all the Presidents that made it out of a field of people had karmic aspects show up, Obama has those, even GWB had those karmic aspects. Now a lot of people didn't like the way he used the energy around him, but he had them. The entire US started into a Karmic pattern in 2000, cleaning up old issues and boy have they been pouring out and there is still a strong potential that there won't be an election. Life's patterns keep going on over an over again, there is nothing new under the sun.

NOLASharon, I appreciate your input. That's what keeps this blog alive and going.

Gina,
"The good news, insofar as it can found, is if there is a Hillary/Obama ticket, we may end up with Obama as president one way or the other."

That's uncanny that you would say that, because that's exactly what I was thinking. Just didn't want to put it into words. I guess it doesn't matter if he comes in the front door, or the back door, but I also feel that he is destined to be President, or do something very useful for his country.

There is a VOC Moon Gina on Inaugural Day, but it's void at exactly noon, if for some reason it's delayed by a half an hour then it would be at 0 Sag. unlikely that would happen but it could. Transiting Sun on that day conjuncts Obama's Jupiter and sextiles Hillary's Jupiter, the conjunction is the stronger of the two aspects, but it could be a good day for them both

Thanks so much for the VOC moon on Inaugural Day, Cap'n Sally.

NOLASharon;
Go to Stumbling Forward, Jan 28,6:16.
I posted on the Kennedy endorsement( Caroline, Ted & Patrick) event of OBAMA! ( NOT Hillary) An enlightening discussion follows for several posts.
They hit the ground running with TV commercial already prepared and running. And they have been traveling the campaign circuit with Obama since!
That afternoon Bobby Jr. Kathleen, & Kerry Kennedy endorsed Hillary! But I didn't see them there at the debate last night ( doesn't mean they weren't there...) and I haven't seen a TV commercial made with them.
There is a bit of discussion on the blogs: Huffpo, Smirking Chimp, on how Obama is really more like RFK, than JFK.................
?????????????
For my money, either would be so much an improvement & a relief.......
I don't think they should make a Pres VP ticket, There is too much talent ignored by the initial voters, Iowa & NH, & the MSM, that should be utilized, Richardson, Dodd, Biden, Not least Edwards, Gore, Kucinich...................

GEEZ! Hugo Chavez Jr. is a BOXER? He's on a pay for view event,advertised on CNN??????????

When I look at the energy of Obama I see a piece of biscotti (really good, can't stop eating them, low in colories and toasty and full of air). And with Hillary something much denser, like a really good piece of dense chocolate...something with some substance, even if it isn't always good for you when you have too much of it; but despite that, has valuable nutrients good for your health.

(and by the way, I was one of the first supporters of MoveOn after the IMPEACHMENT processes Move On was founded on) and now I am pissed off that they have gone and done this endorsement, and alarm bells were going off like crazy when I answered the poll, thinking HEY...this isn't what they used to stand for...but I've stopped dealing with MoveOn long ago. I also know I am not a Progressive.

Sort of IRONIC that an organization which was founded to protest a Clinton's unfair treatment has turned from the other Clinton who was also smeared the same way. But since I have a daughter (with all of her friends) who are going in Obama's direction, well...I get it even if I think it is wrong....

OK, just saw this at Raw Story and I recall that somewhere it was posted that Obama has big Pharma money...

Obama accused of demagoguing for anti-Clinton mailer
Nick Juliano
Published: Friday February 1, 2008

Barack Obama's presidential campaign is mailing out a flyer attacking Hillary Clinton's healthcare plan in ways that recall infamous advertisements from the health insurance industry launched against her previous ill-fated ....

http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Obama_mailer_reminds_of_insuranceindustry_attackads_0201.html

The more I hear how great Obama is, what a saviour, how he's the only one, so this, so that ... bla, bla, bla... the less I believe it. Cripes ... should I be erecting an altar in my house and pray at the feet of Obama? Please! As my daughter would say, tongue in cheek, with her fingers in her ears ... "I can't HEAR you".

And of course the inverse is true (over the top Hillary bashing produces the exact same effect). Neither candidate is my choice. I may (or I may not) vote for EITHER of them. If there's one thing I can't stand is being told what to think (or do). Gives me the willies.

So if anyone is actually interested in what the campaigns are offering, here is Hillary's proposal re science: also can't post all of it, but it is informative.

http://blogs.physicstoday.org/politics08/2008/01/where_do_you_stand_on_science_3.html

Hillary Clinton proposed a 9-point plan to renew the nation’s commitment to research; help create the premier science, engineering, technology and mathematics workforce; and upgrade our innovation infrastructure:

(However, I don't know if there is anything outlining Obama's stand. But all of these are really interesting! did you know that the USA, which created broadband, is now 25th in the world in broadband deployment? )
this is #8 and #9
8. Overhaul the R&E tax credit to make the U.S. a more attractive location for high-paying jobs. The 20% incremental tax credit should be made permanent. Since its introduction in 1981, the credit has been extended 12 times and allowed to lapse once. A permanent credit would make the U.S. a more attractive location for R&D facilities, increasing the likelihood that high-paying research jobs will be created here rather than abroad. Hillary Clinton proposes to make the tax credit permanent in order to eliminate uncertainty, and to make it easier for companies to plan their R&D budgets.
9. Restore integrity to science policy. It is important to reinvigorate the Office of Science and Technology Policy to ensure that the President receives objective, fact-based advice. Hillary Clinton will reverse the Bush administration’s irresponsible politicization of science.

Just saw Nancy's post that the LA Times endorsed Obama...