Astroworld

From the last thread...note the second link represents the iceberg.

http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/14166.html#more-14166

Tuesday’s campaign round-up

I was particularly interested in this one.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-chamber8jan08,1,5346679.story?track=rss&ctrack=1&cset=true

PatC, there's also a poll on the LA Times page, that bugger has to be freep'd, they actually think Duncan Hunter and Kucinich will win NH.

Folks, just noticed some typo's, I don't know that if I go in an edit it that I won't wipe out the comments. So please excuse the sloppy typing, Neputune...geeze.

McCain has changed his slogan to "Mac is
Back"!

Anyone having a Big Mac Attack?

Barf...

wv

Way too fattening! Junk food like the Republican policies!

LA TIMES POLL

Forget your favorite, who's going to win the New Hampshire Democratic primary?

12.4%
Hillary Clinton
4.6%
John Edwards
1.6%
Dennis Kucinich
80.2%
Barack Obama
1.2%
Bill Richardson

12451 total responses

Forget your favorite, who's going to win the New Hampshire Republican primary?
3.3%
Rudy Giuliani
9.0%
Mike Huckabee
0.8%
Duncan Hunter
60.4%
John McCain
9.0%
Ron Paul
16.2%
Mitt Romney
1.3%
Fred Thompson

12255 total responses

Cosmic Path

Weekly Weather Forecast

January 7, 2008 - January 13, 2008

by Anne Ortelee

Our new year begins in earnest this week! Happy 2008! And it is a ONE year ~ new beginnings all around us. New beginnings abound!! And, for the first time in a fairly long while, we actually have cooperative, productive aspects. So let us all make sure to take advantage of the heavens offering us goodies this week and make sure to get busy!!!

First up, Mercury moves out of Capricorn and into Aquarius on Monday. Expect brilliant ideas and fascinating things to arrive on your doorstep, mail box, inbox, email account and phone message box now that Mercury’s moved into Aquarius. FOLLOW UP!!! Or initiate! Or do something! This is a terrrrriiiiffic week to launch new stuff! Yes, launch even if Mars is retrograde ~ the new stuff is going to evolve like the rest of your life does. Just get it out into the world! ~ Retrogrades are part of life too! At least get a working prototype out to the world. Go for it! Label it a draft so you can revise it down the road when you want to!

http://www.thecosmicpath.com/doc/weekly.html

From Steve Judd...

Thought For the Day

7 Jan 19.57

Brief one right now – it’s new Moon shortly, and this one looks really good, sextiling Uranus and potentially bringing lots of new and positive, upbeat opportunities into people’s lives. It’s only the ‘stick in the muds’ that will suffer. And Mars is standing still until the end of the month; it’s an interesting but positive period, great for new options. Take your chances today and tomorrow – it’s a good time.

from the last thread...

check out what Mike Gravel has to say about the candidates:
http://therealnews.com/web/index.php?thisdataswitch=0&thisid=777&thisview=item

Bill Herbst needs our help...

http://www.billherbst.com/

Yesterday I posted that Hillary's sun was being squared by the transiting nodes of the moon....and she broke down and got emotional, which is good. One incident of emotion can unblock a lot of the past in which women had to play the roll of tough broad to make it in the man's world. And now people are wanting her to be 'human'. geez...damned if you do, damned if you don't. Women should be a lot further along the path than they are.

Worth a read

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080108/pl_nm/usa_politics_clinton_leadership_dc

Good interview with Gavel, Judi, thanks
for bringing it to our attention. Too bad
he dropped out, he could have kept the others honest. Methinks the only two left that are honest are Edwards and Kucinich...Great Team, if only....

Crystal

Loved the way Hillary had Madeline Albright stuffed and propped up
beside her as if she were alive, when she conceded Iowa.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/08/us/politics/08bloomberg.html?pagewanted=print

January 8, 2008

Obama’s Surge Deflates Forum and Talk of a Bloomberg Run

By RAYMOND HERNANDEZ and NICHOLAS CONFESSORE

NORMAN, Okla. — He arrived here for what seemed like it could be a big moment. Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg, eyeing a third-party presidential bid, joined Republican and Democratic elders at a forum to denounce the extreme partisanship of Washington and plot how to influence the campaign.

But even as the mayor gathered on Monday with the seasoned Washington hands on the campus of the University of Oklahoma, the surging presidential campaign of Senator Barack Obama seemed to steal energy from the event and set off worry elsewhere among Mr. Bloomberg’s supporters.

Mr. Obama has stressed that he wants to move beyond gridlocked politics and usher in an era of national unity. A key organizer of the effort to draft Mr. Bloomberg for a presidential run acknowledged in an interview on Monday that that Mr. Obama’s rise could be problematic.

January 8, 2008
Editorial Observer

Older Men (and Women) Trying Not to Be Angry

By ELEANOR RANDOLPH
Norman, Okla.

The bloggers, hardly the politest bunch, were calling the gathering of former and present officials on Monday at the University of Oklahoma the “Ben-Gay forum” — a nostalgia trip for oldies trying to creak their way back into electoral relevance.

Some of the more radical or wishful thinkers of the political crowd saw the session as something different: the possible beginning of a third party and another brick in the independent presidential bid by Mayor Michael Bloomberg of New York.

Actually, it was neither.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/08/opinion/08tue4.html?ref=opinion&pagewanted=print

wv, last I heard Gravel was still in, and it's a nasty MSM rumor. Have you seen something formal from him?

Thanks so much, Miz Morgana. I like your symbolism of monkey wrenches and dream-weavers. I've read somewhere recently about the void-of-course moons involved in some of these primaries. I was wondering if you might elaborate on that.

Also, I trust the Neptune influence will not bamboozle We the People. After all, the world still does not need a left-handed monkey wrench (drawing on a Grateful Dead song).

So far it hasn't been a good year for the
markets...

January 8, 2008

Stocks Plunge in Volatile Trading

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Filed at 3:35 p.m. ET

NEW YORK (AP) -- Wall Street skidded lower in another erratic session Tuesday as investors grappled with the possibility of further trouble for the housing market and mortgage lenders like Countrywide Financial Corp. The Dow Jones industrials fell nearly 180 points.

Investors tried to take the market higher, but succumbed to another stream of bad news.

In the morning, the National Association of Realtors said Tuesday its index tracking pending U.S. home sales fell 2.6 percent in November, a larger decline than the market expected. Jitters about Countrywide and KB Home, which posted a disappointing fourth quarter loss, kept Wall Street on edge throughout the day, and comments by President Bush in reiterating the problems facing the economy likely added to the market's uneasiness.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/business/AP-Wall-Street.html?pagewanted=print

The Caucus

January 8, 2008, 12:16 pm
Escape From Camelot
By Matt Bai

MANCHESTER, N.H. — It’s primary day here in New Hampshire. No more rallies, no more town halls, no more Ron Paul sign-holders standing in the middle of Elm Street. (Where do these people come from? And why do they think that’s working?) Unlike in Iowa, where you can actually go see the caucus process play out somewhere, primary day in New Hampshire means that we are mostly reduced to hanging around and awaiting the voters’ verdicts. Four years ago, I passed the afternoon playing pool with a couple of other journalists. This time, I might just stop by the mall.
With polls showing Barack Obama opening up a significant lead over his rivals, most of the unanswered questions today, barring a significant surprise, would seem to be on the Republican side. Either John McCain or Mitt Romney could pick up his first win here tonight. After those two, there’s an interesting and potentially consequential battle for third place between Mike Huckabee, Rudolph W. Giuliani and Ron Paul. I’ll have more to say about some of these candidates and the results from New Hampshire in the next few days.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/08/escape-from-camelot/index.html?hp

Shy, my nutshell take on voc moon's is anything started during a voc will come to naught. Wonder how that will play out for the candidates. The Clinton's new attack campaign Bill's on the loose. Romney, I'm the outsider tact, and of course wv's latest entry of Big Mac is back, big macs are bad for the heart, arteries and obesity in general, rather symbolizes our ailing society.

Obama is the flavor of the day, but, Edwards is starting to pickup the Environment Global Warming crowd with draft Gore of NH endorsing him. Which could carry over with other Gore supporters.

The Moon goes VOC AEST, after the polls close. Interesting to see which loose lips sink their ships.

8 Jan 2008 09:38 pm - 9 Jan 2008 09:14 pm

Also Dixville Notch polls open just after midnight while the rest opened at 7:00 am. Polls close 08:00 pm

Lots of popcorn!

Morgana

On Iowa primary night MSNBC reported that
Gavel, Dodd and Biden had dropped out of the race, that is the only time I heard it.

Since we can't have Kucinich, I believe
the next best candidate to be John Edwards. He has the cajons to follow through on promises made, IF, he gets a
Democratic Congress, with a 60 vote plurality. God forbid Nancy Pelosi or Denny Stenyeer are Speaker of the House.

wv, That is truly a revealing poll from the latimes with Kucinich receiving 80.2% and Duncan (who?) Hunter at 60%. Clearly "Word" got out for a protest against the Kucinich blackout from ABC and the rest. He is sooooo justifiably livid that an MSM network is manipulating voter choices, and says it is the people who decide, not the networks. Edwards too as we well know is angered and barely contained the edges of it during the last debate that the networks made it seem the race was between Obama and Clinton when Clinton finished 3rd and he second.

Re all this Bizzness about Clinton showing emotion (didn't see much glistening moisture in those ducts), it was an OBVIOUSLY PLANTED QUESTION, folks. The questioner asked:]
"How do you keep so upbeat and so WONDERFUL"...
That was a plant. That was not a real question.
Her answers were sentimental and devoid of anything specific we could use to wrap our confidence around or actually trust. Sort of like a dollar bill on the end of a string.
But when she said she sometimes gave in to pizza, I got a little verklempt. Oy, the suffering not to mention inconvenience.

wv, that's the reference I heard, then saw a news article where he said hogwash, I'm in. MSM keeps narrowing the field without our input.

We'll see how it goes, polls close in about 90 minutes ish...

Oh my. I have MSNBC on as background chatter as I work today, half an ear cocked for interesting news. Tweety and Olbermann hosting, and Tom Delay is next up for them to chat with. The look on their faces was priceless, nano second of pure disgust.

Well, I totally disagree with you, patb, about Hillary. Of course, since I share some similarities to her astrologically, I maybe just blind to what others see, but that was genuine emotion. IMHO of course. I am sick of the bashing. I saw the entire exchange, which took place in a PBS interview. A planted question? I don't think so, it was a woman to woman question.

Bill Herbst is in deep doo doo. I was going to have a reading by him in Sept, but my money dried up. He had a stroke in late Nov, which coincided with his natal chiron placement (if you check out his chart)....like me, he has NO insurance and no work. So if you all get a chance, at least send him some messages if not money.

I am emotionally exhausted just LOOKING at what those people are going thru to try to become the star of the world...yikes. They are stronger than I am.

Hillary's tears, I've flip flopped on it, whether it was real, whether it was overblown. Loved Rachel Maddow bringing up Romney's three teary moments. Meanwhile all the ballyhoo of her losing is much over blown, it's been an Iowa straw poll, and the First Primary. So far it looks like a horse race, which would be my choice. I'd like to see a lot more people have a voice in who is our nominee.

Seedlings of change, could just be chaos.

Judigem, I hope you accept my apology there.
All we have are our perceptions of things and it is a reaction to the absolute helplessness against this madness of the war machine and my distrust of any candidate who would continue war as a mainstay to our economy while our society is being hollowed out.
I perceive that the gov't views our youth as a resource (I have a draftable son who will not be out of the woods for 6 years) to be used up.
I become frightened when I hear of National Service from democrats when the repugs wait in the wings to MISUSE this concept. I am out of my mind with worry for him. I pay attention to what the candidates DON'T say.
You are certainly entitled to your views, but Hillary and Obama frighten me. So I digress into snide shots when in fact it is a symptom of pretty profound fear and distrust.

I feel as we are manipulated to believe things as real when in fact it is packaging.
It is a reaction to missing out on candidates who are being ground under the wheel of these sad and cynical times.
The only candidates I trust at a gut level what their instincts are and keeping their word to the best of their ability would be
Kucinich, Dodd, Biden, Edwards and Gravel who have all been Blacked Out in different degrees what is closest in my heart to trustworthy competence, we cannot have.

Please no arguing. I will temper my words instead with respect to all.

Judigem, thanks for posting the Gravel interview ... Obama is not the guy we need by any stretch. They will roll over him from sunup til sundown. Change my foot!

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/state/#NH

CNN Election Central New Hampshire

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/

TPM Primary Scoreboard

New Hampshire
DemocratsVote %NH DelDel

*Clinton40%015
Obama36%016
35% of precincts

Republicans Vote
*McCain37%

34% of precincts min

McCain projected winner and wish I were able to drink heavily, hold the popcorn.

This is interesting. About 43% of the Repug and 44% of the Dem vote is in. I added them quickly, and there're still more to come, but about 87,000 cast votes for Repugs and almost 115,000 for Dems.

And this is really wild. Reactions, by Dem or Repug voters, to BushCo:
http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/08/a-referendum-on-bushcheney/

patb, it was not you I was referring to about bashing, it is bashing in general, so I am sorry if you misunderstood...but I think Hillary does deserve respect. That being said, at this point as Gravel said, congress is bought and sold, and only a few on either side of the aisle retains any moral values. I cannot believe McCain....hello, the Keating 5 anyone?

So if McCain is getting a pass, why are we excoriating our own side?

I wouldn't count on their not being a draft, no matter which party is in. I certainly lost friends in the Vietnam war by draft and death, which my generation was dealing with. I still am amazed that men have such a different take on war than most women....perhaps because they either haven't been there or haven't got the imagination to imagine it.

Remember a few months back I brought up General Smedley Butler who wrote about all war being about profit? nothing has changed, and America's soldiers are fed all the stuff on honor, etc....but it is all about profit. It just doesn't get thru their heads. And the leaders know it.

If you didn't read the posting I did on Monsanto, here is a great paragraph on something similar and chilling which dovetails with the end of General Butler's career exposing exactly this:

Engdahl's book supplies the ammunition to do it and is also a sequel to his earlier one on war, oil politics and The New World Order and follows naturally from it. It covers the roots of the strategy to control "global food security" that goes back to the 1930s and the plans of a handful of American families to preserve their wealth and power. But it centers on one in particular that above the others "came to symbolize the hubris and arrogance of the emerging American century" that blossomed post-WW II. Its patriarch began in oil and then dominated it in his powerful Oil Trust. It was only the beginning as the family expanded into "education of youth, medicine and psychology," US foreign policy, and "the very science of life itself, biology, and its applications" in plants and agriculture.

The family's name is Rockefeller. The patriarch was John D., and four powerful later-generation brothers followed him - David, Nelson, Laurance, and John D. III. Engdahl says the GMO story covers "the evolution of power in the hands of an elite (led by this family), determined (above all) to bring the entire world under their sway." They and other elites already control most of it, including the nation's energy, the US Federal Reserve, and other key world central banks. Today, three brothers are gone, David alone remains, and he's still a force at age 92 although he no longer runs the family bank, JP Morgan Chase. He's active in family enterprises, however, including the Rockefeller Foundation to be discussed in Part II of this review.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=7716

Oh, I just forgot to mention that last night I was watching Nightly Business Report on PBS and they had this guy on who makes predictions (he was at 85% in 07.) I always stuff all the business people into the republican bag, so was quite surprised when this guy said the democrats will take ALL of the elections in 08...like a clean sweep...wow.

I guess I should also say that I get very emotional about stuff....but rarely shed a tear. Yet there are others who can cry at the drop of a hat or some such thing. I don't think it is a good bench mark. Maybe I've been around actors for too long....I really think what happens (PBS brought up Muskie) is that people get so tired they can't keep the front up anymore to the public. One's defenses and control (I suspect Hillary of high intelligence and major control issues) get breached with the kinds of pressures they are all dealing with.

I still say we can only look at records, what people have voted for in the past, what they are likely to do in the future, and somehow figure out why they change sides, what happens to them, how effective are they. And people do make mistakes....how do they deal with that? What are they allowed to do to make amends, etc. How bad are the mistakes?

War is hell....but war is also a huge force of bag money for the wealthy. We already know THOSE kind of pressures.

Important point to keep in mind with NH, this is a semi-open primary. Independents do not get to vote, and that is a sizeable group.

Judigem, you mentioned your similar patterns to Hillary. Keep in mind too, Kucinich is not without those edges as well 10-8-1946 lots like '47. Really depends on core sentiment how those drives are expressed.

Judi, I am viscerally firm about war "values" and include distrust of both party's individuals and their intentions for young people. The "new" attitude is to destroy their minds and bodies and spirits, not equip them properly, screw them out of medical benefits, make them chase their paychecks,
make them fight side by side with the goons of Blackwater, to name a few.

40 years ago in the Vietnam era the the gov't kept their bargains with the troops, and the military personnel possessed dignity of ethics, and if they were breached as in Mai Lai, those breaches of military dignities and laws were punished.
It is now a killing spree.

WWII soldiers received a home to live in and jobs to go to.

I will remain on the edge until I can get my son OUT of the u.s. and away from the criminality and base evil which describes who and what governs us.
These freaks on both sides of the aisle pushing to grab hold of my boy's like and suck him dry (National Service, yeah, right.) are my enemies.

Must be, pat b, why I like Kucinich also....what a dynamite combo they would make.

I've always identified with Hillary, the good, the bad, the indifferent. Also Bill. hahahaha

I meant the Scorpio/Gemini/Leo combination of stuff, generational and specific....I have 0 deg Scporpio rising, she is 2 deg. Sc. sun, and in some of the info, there is some Gemini, but I can't remember where. I thought it was really amusing that when the art director at the book company asked me to do the illustrations of Hillary, that I was the person asked to do it...me, who identifies with her...I thought I should have done Obama because like him, I was born in Hawaii. (that's stretching it)...but they got someone else. I coulda done Edwards, although I don't know if they did a book on him....but I was a men's fashion illustrator, he is handsome and model like, and he is a Gemini also. (like me).

Oh, just killing time now until NH gets counted...

I thought independents WERE voting, am I reading the stuff wrong? It said on the news that like 40% of the independents were going for McCain....or was it 60%? I wasn't aware they couldn't vote ....

Forgot to mention running the troops into the ground with exhaustion and not letting them out once their tours are up. They also do not allow normal R&R to let off steam with absurd restrictions on their movement, sexual lives and drinking habits, socializing held in barren warehouses.

During Vietnam I believe there were limits in the front lines of 3 months on 1 month off. Troops were rotated and came home. Now they are on a year with 2 to 3 weeks home before throwing them back into the pits of hell.

I can't think about this another minute right now.

Judi, it is my understanding this is a semi-open primary and THINK that means no independents. That is what we have here in CO>

HA...Vietnam, right, they kept the bargain with the troops? talk to my friend Alan in Seattle, with the VA....ha....that explains all the homeless vets, I guess...the gov't kept their bargain. They were the most damaged generation EVER. And he started the homeless Vets program to keep them housed in Seattle. It was ALL Vietnam vets. Those were the killing fields. It was shameful then, and it was Democrats who did it then. It was still the Congressional, Military, and Industrial Complex then and now. Nothing has changed.

See, I was very very anti war in the 1960's, and that hasn't changed. But at some point your son, patb, will want a say in what he does. Just might want to look at that aspect, also.

I am corresponding with a young Marine in Baghdad green zone...he's got a desk job, but still has things dangerous to deal with. He joined the Marines. He is smart, he writes, he has an old time sense of honor out of step with today's military. His father was a Vietnam Vet who finally killed himself...his mother a drug addict. He was raised by grandparents. He still joined. We can't really determine others directions in life, only influence for a better life. Then I looked at his chart and saw that actually, the Marines worked for him.

They just declared Hillary.

There are real tears in my eyes. No question.

Judigem, my son DOES, always has and always will have a say in what he does.

That. Is. Insulting.

On that note of the most superficially off-the-wall simplistic categorization and presumption I have ever heard to describe who I am in relationship to my son, I have no further words for this evening.

Goodnight.

First of all Morgana, this article is, as usual, fantastic. Your ability to create imagery with your words always leaves me feeling breathless.

Second, the last three days leading into this primary has been the best theater production I've seen in awhile. Saturday the debate night we have Clinton going cute and coy in answer to a stupid question. Sunday, we have Clinton with tears welling up in her eyes and the predictable media pounced, her husband gave a talk about Obama's "Fairy Tale" and Hillary calling in the middle to say "I love you." Yesterday two guys stood up with something so stupid as "iron my shirts" with Clinton and a snappy come back that women could relate to. Also yesterday and all day to day we have a constant stream of Bill saying the press are unfair to us and like to see us suffer. Tonight we have a Clinton win all with actions that did not fit nor have been a part of her campaign.

When Dixville Notch started their voting last night the moon was VOC, this win could easily come back to bite Ms. Clinton, but it was a masterful piece of political theater.

Patb,
I swore up and down, all around that my son would not go into the military as so much canon fodder, I swore I'd take him to Canada before I let them throw his life away. Four weeks into his first semester of college Gulf I exploded. He signed up, didn't need my permission or my blessing, or want it. I howled, ranted, cried wept for the six weeks that I had left with him before he left for boot camp, US Marines. Gratefully he survived did his service time and now has the understanding of why I was so against his joining up. For him to tell it, it made him a man. Go figure, I still don't grasp the logic of the male psyche.

Remember this is the First Primary, this is far from over. The over whelming fact became clear tonight that the American people are very very angry.

Meanwhile Jorge is winging his way to the Middle-East to spread freedom and democracy. How scarey is that!

Morgana, my son has no such desire as your son. He has expressed a revulsion for killing and would prefer psychology instead.

To each his own, eh?

Patb I had no intention of insulting you. It is just an observation as a parent. Children often have to make their own paths and should. It is the pain of a parent.

Sally, I guess I disagree with your analyses also. Because in some way, all of this is already theater, it is what it is, politics IS theater. But in some way it is also really cynical of us to sit here and make these conclusions, myself included. I have been cynical all my life and I am tired. It got me no where. Attributing a constant cynical outlook to everyone in politics also wears me out. I just choose to see that all of these people are sincere, some are fools, some are deluded and some are calculating. I just don't want to apply that outlook to everyone all the time.

No one said life was easy.

The Gulf, that was before things evolved into the current degradation of just about everything. That was a different reality.

If Will, my son's name, decides to destroy his soul by killing other human beings that will be his decision. He is very well informed and has few illusions about what it is a soldier does. If he decides to enter the military that is his choice. It is what unmentored kids do, and in the past it did make them men.
Form and discipline are cleansing in less corrupt and respectful times. But I did make a bit of a comparison to wars of yore to wars of today.
Societies of yore took time with their youth and gave them rites of passage. Ours has no such mechanism and teaches them aggression instead. So much for enlightened society.

Judigem, please do not reiterate what I already know about raising children. Thanks.

As for voting independent in NH:
"The women of NH gave this victory to Hillary Clinton," NBC political analyst Tim Russert said, also crediting the large proportion of independents that voted in the Republican primary for syphoning support from Obama.

I guess they were voting.

I had also heard that people were expressing the opinion that Obama doesn't have enough experience (my viewpoint also), and some people then decided to support Hillary. So it was women who carried the day.

Calm down patb, this isn't a fight. I should have added, it is the pain of grandparents, which I am, also. How the hell do I know what you know about raising children? But you are very fiercely protective of your son...I know enough to know that at some point some children will do EXACTLY the opposite of what a parent wants. Apparently Morgana had that experience. I myself was the one who went against convention, while my own daughter didn't rebel that way at all. But it sure is a valid experience either way.

With this Hillary announcement this evening it would be good to keep one eyeball on the retro mars backing up for a roll over uranus in H's 8th house in time for the Feb 5 big one. Like a pitcher winding up a ball for the pitch.

In tonite's final tally there was the begging question of where Edwards 17% would go were he to drop this race. They would not go to H, that is assured.

The other thing, these were none other than Diebold machines calculating these votes. No paper. No proof.

The last thing on my mind, Obama's and H's senate voting records have been identical.

An election brought to us by none other than the pullers of the strings.

Further down the GOP ticket, Ron Paul was threatening to score a coup against onetime frontrunner Rudy Giuliani. Paul was nipping at the former New York Mayor's heals with 8 percent of the vote in early returns compared to Giuliani's 9 percent. At one point early on fewer than 100 votes separated the two men, but Paul was unable to close the gap. With about 75 percent of precincts in, Paul and Giuliani maintained the same percentages.

Judi, really I can't take anymore of that.
My son has rebelled on numerous occasions in numerous ways like ANY OTHER KID. Why do you go on like this? I don't understand why you are pressing/pushing this. I have not asked for instruction nor do I feel I need it. It has become a very strange conversation.

I will not discuss this topic further with you. Just stop.

The following was for January 7, 2008 at 10:00 am in Portsmouth, NH. But fortunes change quickly and so does the progressed lunar return. The second part will use the same demi-anlunar progressed to Jan 8 at 11:40 pm, EST relocated to Manchester, NH for the announcement of her projected winin the Primary and the same chart located to her place of birth.

Using the 2:18 am Chart for Hillary

If you relocate Hillary's chart to Portsmouth, NH it has a Midheaven of 87d 36m. At 10:00 am EST on Jan 7, 2008, transit Mars was conjunct at 87d 23m and her secondary progressed Mercury was opposite at 267d 33m.

Prior to that the progression of her demi-anlunar showed a discouraging, possibly sleepless night.

Going back to her birth place natal chart the East Point is 160d 32m. Transit Saturn at 9:00 am, CST was at 160d 32m and had been there since midnight (1:00 am EST).

The progressed demi-anlunar for Oak Park had a MC of 56d 22m with the East Point being 146d 22m. Her secondary progressed natal Saturn was at 145d 00m. A little less than 8 hours before that the East Point would have been 142d ++m with her secondary progressed Saturn/Pluto midpoint at 142d 13m opposed by transit Neptune at 322d 58m.

Later that day the progressed demi-anlunar East point would have swept her secondary progressed Mars/ Pluto midpoint at 149d 23m which is squared by her secondary progressed Moon on the MC at 59d 07m.

A lot of stress indicators playing out at the time of her emotional showing.

Part 2.

The MC of the PDAL for the announcement projecting her win located to Manchester, NH using 11:40 pm Jan 8 was 93d 52m. Prog return Jupiter was on opposite the MC at 93d 49m. Her secondary prog Sun was opposite the MC at 93d 10m.

The same chart located to her place of birth has an MC of 77d 48m. Return Venus/Jupiter midpoint was opposite the MC at 78d 01m while transit Uranus squared it at 347d 05m.

Bob

January 8, 2008
Op-Ed Columnist

McCain and Obama

By DAVID BROOKS
Salem, N.H.

Both Barack Obama and John McCain attract independents. Both have a candor that appeals to voters and media-types alike. Both ask their audiences to serve a cause greater than self-interest. Both offer a politics that is grand and inspiring.

But they are very different men. Their policies obviously conflict, but their skills, world views and moral philosophies set them apart, too. One man celebrates communitarian virtues like unity, the other classical virtues like honor.

Obama’s great skill is his ability to perceive and forge bonds with other people. Everybody who’s dealt with him has a story about a time when they felt Obama profoundly listened to them and understood them. One of mine came a few years ago.

I was writing columns criticizing the Republican Congress, but each time I’d throw in a few sentences slamming the Democrats, subconsciously trying to make myself feel good. One morning I got an e-mail message from Obama that roughly said: David, if you want to critique us, fine. But you’re just throwing in those stray sentences to make yourself feel good.

I felt like a bug pinned down in a display case.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/08/opinion/08brooks.html?ei=5070&en=362eeed643059843&ex=1200546000&pagewanted=print

MSNBC went out of it's way last night to
highlight the quirkiness of the people of
New Hampshire. Tim Russert was exceptionaly rude...but then he always is.
Tweety kept reminding us that women make up 57 percent of the Democratic Party. So?

I don't think it is a place I'd like to live. Methinks their desire to be so vehemently individualistic would drive a sane person up the walls ere long.

Initial blog reaction to Hillary's victory

by John Aravosis (DC) · 1/08/2008 11:04:00 PM ET
· Link
Discuss this post here: Comments (518) · reddit · FARK ·· Digg It!

Markos:
Hillary Clinton just showed everyone who had called this thing for Obama that, in fact, there's a much longer race in store.

How exciting! No coronation this year. The candidates are going to have to earn their victory the old fashioned way -- one vote at a time.

Josh:
Even if Hillary doesn't win this thing, if she loses by only a percentage point or two, she'll have plenty of claim to a political comeback. More than enough to hearten her supporters and calm any sense that she's getting run out of this race on a rail.

We could be looking at a situation in which the first two contests on both sides -- the ones that usually tell the tale -- have settled very little.

http://www.americablog.com/

HIllary's lack of skill

January 8, 2008 - 9:20am
by Robert A. Kezelis

My complaint can be broken down into three parts:

1. a lack of political skills

2. a lack of administrative skills

3. a lack of people sense

Today let's look at #2. The most important skill needed by a president is to be a decent administrator. Clinton, (Bill), had that down pat, after a rather rocky start. Ask any of his former Secretaries. Even Reagan (1st term) and Bush (1) knew about the administrative requirements and did them relatively well. (We are NOT discussing whether the direction they chose was good, just whether as administrators, they were competent) Eisenhower was a talented administrator, and even now, historians are pleasantly surprised at how good he really was. FDR? Superb at picking good people. A natural. Which is why he won four terms.

http://readerrant.capitolhillblue.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=46473#Post46473

FYI: Any registered NH voter can vote in the primary. Republican, Democrat or Independent just declares which party ballot s/he prefers, changes registration and votes on that ballot. Indeed, anyone can register to vote at the polls. After voting, most immediately reregister back to their original choice. People here are independent thinkers and this system allows the greatest flexibility in expression.
Most of the women I have listened to in the past few days believe the country is in crisis and needs a knowledgable and experienced leader. They do not think Obama is that person and will NOT be sliding their support over to him unless it is necessary to defeat the Republican nominee.
"Live free or die, death is not the worst of evils." General John Sullivan
Sigh... it's the state motto.
Also should point out that the Moon in NH (!) didn't go voc until 6.36am when it conjuncted the Sun, so the Moon in Dixville Notch when the first votes were cast was still a hardworking Capricorn Moon. This is something to ponder since the Notch voted for Obama and the rest of the state voted for Hillary under the voc Moon....
Morgana: I always enjoy your comments.

Clinton pulled this one out by going negative (big time) and by pushing doubt and, increasingly, fear.

During the New Hampshire debate, she went off: "You can't do this by that; You won't do this by that. You shouldn't give FALSE HOPE." Notice all the negatives? Can't ... don't ... false .... Well, she was desperate. The strategy worked enough to pull her sagging numbers up a lot. (Her strategy, and a strange expectations game, worked. There are some indications that many independents went over to McCain because Obama looked far ahead.)

Then, today, Hillary pulled the ultimate Cheney: Hillary said that Al Quida is likely to strike the U.S. soon after the next President takes office -- and that she needs to be there to respond.

Oh -- my -- God.

Fear-mongering, just like the neo-con/neo-lib that she has become (or always was).

Party on, Hillary! You won one the old fashioned way: You went negative and peddled fear.

Many more victories like that, and you may be able to lose the general election or triangulate for four or eight years.

As Obama said, there is something happening in America. There surely is.

What's Karl up to these days?

http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1417

Released: January 08, 2008

Reuters/C-SPAN/Zogby New Hampshire Tracking Poll: Obama, McCain Enjoy Solid Leads As Election Day Dawns

NH Primary: Pre-Election Polls Wildly Different Than Results Announced for Clinton/Obama

Other Pre-Election Numbers, For Republicans and Rest of Dems, Nearly Dead on the Money...

http://www.bradblog.com/?p=5530

Justice Is Blind, but Can She Vote?

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20080108_justice_is_blind_but_can_she_vote/

The most revealing indicator of the state of our democracy is not to be found in the snowdrifts of New Hampshire but in the marbled chamber of the U.S. Supreme Court. Soon enough, we will discover whether the court under Chief Justice John Roberts will become a partisan tool in the national Republican drive to place constraints on voting that are targeted at those who tend to support Democrats.

Not since the Supreme Court stopped the Florida presidential election recount in 2000 has a voting case been so significant, or so overflowing with partisan bile.

On Wednesday, the justices will hear a challenge to Indiana’s strict law requiring photo identification in order for a voter to cast a ballot at the polls. The state claims the law is necessary to stop voter fraud. Yet no one—not Indiana officials, not the U.S. Justice Department, which has taken the state’s side in the dispute, nor any commission—has come up with a single case in the state’s history in which an impostor showed up and cast a vote.

Never mind. In 2005, Republicans who controlled the Indiana Legislature and the governor’s mansion imposed the toughest photo identification requirement in the nation. Not coincidentally, studies have repeatedly shown that those least likely to possess photo identification—most commonly a driver’s license—are African-Americans, the poor, the elderly and the disabled. In short, they are more likely to vote Democratic. Challengers to the law have identified at least two Indiana voters who have infirmities that make it impossible for them to drive, according to The New York Times. They were prevented from casting ballots and having them counted after years of voting without difficulty.

More at the link....

Great article! The seeds are planted, and it was a surprise! I am personally glad for Hillary but I love Barack Obama too. And John Edwards!

There seem to be quite a few posters here who are in the "I hate Hillary" crowd and it is the main reason I quit posting this past year. I wish you would take a little time to re-evaluate your negative feelings. I think of Hillary as a strong woman and presence who truly wants to do good in the world . . . ANYONE that has the tenacious gaul to run for President is GOING to be power hungry, or they wouldn't run!! Cut her some slack! Please.

Laurie, don't worry about Hillary haters. Speak your mind. I'm an Edwards lover, but most of all I am a voter lover. It is the voters that need the most help now. These machines are easily hacked and have been proved to have been, to the point of giving us George W Bush, instead of Al Gore or John Kerry. Those machine were at work in New Hampshire. That's very bad news for all of us. There is no democracy or even a chance of one as long as they exist.

One True Voice on the Trail

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20080107_one_true_voice_on_the_trail/

I am tired of living in a country where 16-year-old girls die because insurance company profits are more important than human life.

I am tired of a government that runs offshore penal colonies where the detained are tortured and denied the basic protections of the Geneva Convention.

I am tired of living in a state that makes war against countries that do not threaten us.

I am tired of watching basic constitutional rights, such as the right to privacy, taken away from citizens.

Most of all, I am tired of being told every four years that I must vote for candidates who do nothing to stop the brutal and callous assault by corporations on the American working class, sending their jobs overseas and stripping workers of benefits and human dignity.

And so—to be sure that this year my vote goes to someone who does more than pay lip service to the moral and physical deterioration of the nation—I will pull the lever for Dennis Kucinich.

I can hear the collective groan. He won’t win. He has no real following. It is a wasted vote.

More at the link...

Well Morgana, you were certainly right about the VOC moon.

Anyway, there is a force greater than astrology that will ultimately decide who will be the next president of the United States, and it will be whoever is best suited to fulfill America's destiny. Meanwhile, pay no attention to the media pundits, and the polls - just think of them as comic relief. Tim Russert should be crowned Buffoon of the Year. I wish someone would tell him that there is no such word as "coronate", which he keeps repeating over and over.

WV, was that really a stuffed version of Madeline Albright? Too funny.

Very good articles PatC. I found it strange that Obama conceded so quickly last night, since there were still a lot of votes to be counted, but who knows? Maybe he struck a deal with Hillary. We will see how things go as time goes on.

PatC, thanks for that, I was worried about getting slammed. I am not only a "voter," but a poll worker, in which I am in charge of the machines all throughout the day, balancing how many votes to how many voters and then getting the tapes to the centers safely. There is no way in hell any poll worker can cheat, it has to come from higher up. Way higher up.

I do believe that Dennis Kucinich is the One True Voice On the Trail. But what is the point if he can't be heard? I think he should have made more of an effort to stay in the race. It is really sad the way the American Electoral Process is set up to benefit only those with deep pockets, and candidates have to run around frantically raising money just to stay in the race. Anyhow, Kucinich did give the votes he earned in Iowa to Obama, and I interpret that as an endorsement, or at least the closest we can come to voting for him.

From a friend in Cleveland:

Kucinich

I guess people here are fed up with Dennis' run for the presidency. There are now 6 people who are going
to run against him for his House seat. Some are very well known. This is the first time I can recall where
there were serious threats. It will be interesting. People just feel he isn't taking care of us when he takes off
so much time to run. Thought you might be interested

Whoa, wv. . .that's disturbing!

You nailed it again, Morgana. The images you create colorfully represent the current trends. Awesome.

The Chamber of Commerce is threatening war against the anti-business rhetoric coming from the democrats. They just don't like this populist message.

Warning: this article will make you grit your teeth.

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-chamber8jan08,0,4301350.story?coll=la-politics-campaign

I really appreciate Bill Herbst's life work. He takes the fear out of the transitional 'interesting times' we're in and he explains the need for change. I gladly and with gratitude give for his recovery whether I can afford tit or not. We need his voice. I urge anyone who feels the same to donate what they can.

Morning all! Tom Donohue isn't that guy a piece of work! So the Chamber of Commerce is going to build a grassroots organization that when it bites people bleed. I thought they already had done that with all their price gouging and low wages? What they want to screw us more?

I am undecided still. But if Hillary gets the nomination I'll support her, can't imagine myself supporting any Republican, even if she is centrist.

Great observations from all the posters. It's my hope that those who have been offended by the Hillary haters here would just skip the offending remarks since not all the folks here are that vitriolic, and the rest of us are missing out on your observations and impressions.

Tim Russert is a buffoon, MSM had it wrong last night and it was interesting to hear Tom Brokaw say that they shouldn't be trying to anoint one or the other but that the whole country's voice needed to be heard.

Next up South Carolina!

South Carolina may just be a circus Morgana. This was posted on Starlight News.

SC to use machines in Primary not allowed in other States

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/29946

This and a Mrec rx is a potion for a big mess.

Aha ha.. Michigan, Nevada, then So. Carolina. Too bad about their using hackable voting machines. I guess the populace of S. Carolina is too polite and gentrified to stomp their feet and raise hell.

Here's the primary schedule:

JANUARY 2008

* January 3: Iowa (caucuses)
* January 5: Wyoming (GOP caucuses)
* January 8: New Hampshire (primary)
* January 15: Michigan
* January 19: Nevada (precinct caucuses), South Carolina (R primary)
* January 26: South Carolina (D primary)
* January 29: Florida

FEBRUARY 2008

* February 1: Maine (R)
* February 5: Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado (caucuses), Connecticut, Delaware, Georgia, Idaho (D), Illinois, Kansas (D), Massachusetts, Minnesota, Missouri, New Jersey, New Mexico (D), New York, North Dakota (caucuses), Oklahoma, Tennessee, Utah
* February 9: Louisiana, Kansas (R)
* February 10: Maine (D caucuses)
* February 12: District of Columbia, Maryland, Virginia
* February 19: Hawaii (D), Washington, Wisconsin

MARCH 2008

* March 4: Ohio, Rhode Island, Texas, Vermont
* March 8: Wyoming (D)
* March 11: Mississippi

APRIL 2008

* April 22: Pennsylvania

MAY 2008

* May 6: Indiana, North Carolina
* May 13: Nebraska (primary), West Virginia
* May 20: Kentucky, Oregon
* May 27: Idaho (R)

JUNE 2008

* June 3: Montana, New Mexico (R), South Dakota

AUGUST 2008

* August 25-28: Democratic National Convention in Denver, Colorado

Hand count vs the m.a.c.h.i.n.e.s!

http://www.bradblog.com/?p=5530#more-5530

http://ronrox.com/paulstats.php?party=DEMOCRATS

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

Paper ballots for 2008

http://pol.moveon.org/paper2008/?id=11876-8670854-6wdhD7&t=1

If you haven't signed this yet.....

If I were a black voting is South Carolina I would be very afraid of my vote
not being honored

Will we ever, ever, get to the bottom of the BCCI thing and the Sibel Edmunds matter? Clinton made sure the former was swept under that fetid rug in DC and much has been done to get Sibel under there, too. Such maneuvers create lots of suspicion. Even Waxman folded in terms of Sibel. Brrrrrrrrrrr.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/1/9/25013/41212/822/433439

The world's most dangerous place

Jan 3rd 2008
From The Economist print edition

Nothing else has worked: it is time for Pakistan to try democracy

Get article background

THE war against Islamist extremism and the terrorism it spawns is being fought on many fronts. But it may well be in Pakistan that it is won or lost. It is not only that the country's lawless frontier lands provide a refuge for al-Qaeda and Osama bin Laden, and that its jihad academies train suicide-bombers with global reach. Pakistan is also itself the world's second most populous Muslim nation, with a proud tradition of tolerance and moderation, now under threat from the extremists on its fringes. Until recently, the risk that Pakistan might be prey to Islamic fundamentalism of the sort its Taliban protégés enforced in Afghanistan until 2001 seemed laughable. It is still far-fetched. But after the assassination of Benazir Bhutto, twice prime minister, nobody is laughing. This, after all, is a country that now has the bomb Miss Bhutto's father, Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, craved so passionately as prime minister in the 1970s.

There are many other reasons why the murder of Miss Bhutto (and some 20 other people unlucky enough to be near her) makes Pakistan seem a frightening place (see article). That terrorists could strike in Rawalpindi, headquarters of the Pakistani army, despite having advertised threats against Miss Bhutto, and despite the slaughter of some 150 people in Karachi on the day she returned from exile last October, suggests no one is safe. If, as many in Pakistan believe, the security services were themselves complicit, that is perhaps even scarier. It would make it even harder to deal with the country's many other fissures: the sectarian divide between Sunni and Shia Muslims; the ethnic tensions between Punjabis, Sindhis, Pushtuns and “mohajir” immigrants from India; the insurgency in Baluchistan; and the spread of the “Pakistani Taliban” out of the border tribal areas into the heartlands.

http://www.economist.com/opinion/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10430237

Karen, saw that guy Tom Donahue with his face like ice-frost on a window. Open threat, at least there's no question which energy we're dealing with in this country.

H's comments about terr'ist threats. The bearded one, OBL long dead yet propped up in a rocking chair in the window of the Bates Motel.

What can be done about the Carnivores among us,
they are relentless. From the bullies in the schoolyard taking your lunch money becoming legislators, to the verbal thugs who will not stop pushing regardless of boundary setting.

Kucinich would not turn our kids into killers or little SS servants.
It is assured the dark forces well up in horrifying ways right before it is destroys itself.

Here is a piece of journalistic naivete:

Headline on Yahoo reads: Woman whose question moved Clinton to tears voted Obama.

Uh, well that's what she said, but was someone in the booth with her to see who she really voted for?

Could be that many of those who claimed that they were voting for Obama, actually voted for Clinton. I mean, in Iowa, you couldn't lie about it, because it was a caucus, and supporters had to vote in the open, but with a Primary election, you have the privacy of a booth to vote any which way you want.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/a-great-night-for-hillary_b_80608.html?view=print

Nashua, New Hampshire -- The results from New Hampshire represent a crushing setback. Not for Barack Obama -- after all, only three weeks ago he was 12 points behind.

No, the biggest losers of the night were the pollsters, who will now have to down a heaping helping of humble pie. Like Lucy Ricardo, they have a lot of 'splainin' to do. That includes CNN, which over the weekend had Obama up 9 points and USA Today/Gallup, which had him up by 13.

This was obviously a great night for Hillary Clinton and her running mate, Bill. But also a very good night for the democratic process (record turnout), and for the long-term prospects of Barack Obama.

The voters clearly want the nominee they pick to have fought for it. They don't want a coronation. And now Obama has a chance to prove to the skeptics his mettle under fire.

Mother Jones analyses of the NH race:
http://www.motherjones.com/mojoblog/archives/2008/01/6811_hillary_rising.html?src=email&link=hed_20080109_ts2_Hillary%20Rising%20in%20New%20Hampshire

Luna, I exchanged a few emails last night with Bill Herbst, and he struggles to even write them, but you would never know it! He is lucky to have a few friends and a brother to help him out....I am sure he will be uplifted by any kind of support.

Laurie, i've been giving thought to the reasons i will only vote for Billary (sorry, i can't help myself) should she win the nomination. There is no argument that this is a woman of substance, bright and articulate. Further, she is well versed in the give 'n take of a political culture that demands tradeoffs and compromises. Any candidate who wins the presidential seat is going to find themselves in hot fat. Is Billary capable of negotiating this. Yes. Do i trust her? No. But, to qualify. . .i have to say there is only one candidate i do trust. That's Kucinich and there's no way in hades he'll be winning the nomination.

By the way, Judi. That globalresearch article on genetically altered seeds was awesome. I had read it previously and meant to post it, but got sidetracked.

Hopefully, Bill's plight receives a very wide audience.

I've just heard that the BBC says Richardson is dropping out. WV just contacted me with the information

Sally, here's the AP annoucement

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gNrYvAi-WwpRBCdw1Ry9fxZ2as4QD8U2M62G1

Interesting that throws the Latino and NA up for grabs.

January 9, 2008
Sources: Richardson to drop out of Democratic race

Posted: 07:33 PM ET

Bill Richardson drew single digits in the Iowa caucuses and New Hampshire primary.
(CNN) – (CNN) — New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson will quit the race for the Democratic presidential nomination after fourth-place showings in the campaign's first contests, two sources confirmed to CNN Wednesday.

Richardson, who served as United Nations ambassador and energy secretary in the Clinton administration, drew 5 percent of the vote in Tuesday's New Hampshire primary and 2 percent in last week's Iowa caucuses, far behind
leading Democrats Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama and John Edwards.

"The numbers are the reason — not enough votes and not enough money," a Democratic strategist close to Richardson's campaign told CNN. However, "He enjoyed it and believes he made a contribution," the strategist said.

A public announcement was planned Thursday in New Mexico, he said.

The Richardson campaign had no comment.

– CNN's John King, John Roberts, and Candy Crowley

Filed under: Bill Richardson

Clinton On Her Win, Rivals' "Buddy System"

CHAPPAQUA, N.Y., Jan. 9, 2008
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(CBS) In an interview conducted this afternoon at her home in Chappaqua, N.Y., following last night’s victory in the New Hampshire primary, Sen. Hillary Clinton spoke with CBS News anchor Katie Couric about her remarkable win, her message, and what's ahead. What follows is a transcript of the interview.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CLINTON: On Tuesday morning when I got up before the sun was up, and was out helping to deliver coffee to everybody who was working for me, I felt really good by the time I came in around early afternoon. I really did, Katie. I thought "something's happening." Not that I was gonna stand up and announce it, but I could feel it.

COURIC: But your own internal polls were telling you otherwise.

CLINTON: I know that New Hampshire is fiercely independent. I came in there with a very, you know, big problem, as we know. And I just determined that I was gonna dig down deep and reach out and listen and talk and do what I have always done, which is what makes me get up in the morning. That is to figure out how I could tell people what I want to do to serve them.

COURIC: Some observers believe that moment when you got emotional on Monday when your voice cracked and your eyes welled up that that humanized you and made you much more attractive to women voters.

CLINTON: That moment, which obviously I've heard a lot about since, gave people maybe some insight into the fact that I don't see politics as a game. You know, I don't see it as some kind of a traveling entertainment show where, you know, you get up and you perform and you go on to the next venue. You know, for me it is a way of figuring out what we stand for, what our values are, and getting in a position to actually help people.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/01/09/eveningnews/main3693731.shtml

The Clinton rebellion

US elections 2008: New Hampshire's Democratic voters last night delivered one of the most stunning results in modern US politics

Michael Tomasky

January 9, 2008 4:30 AM

Hillary Clinton's narrow victory in New Hampshire on Tuesday night is one of the most stunning results I've ever seen. Her own staff woke up that morning dreading a double-digit loss. Heads were going to roll. No one, not the candidate herself, had any remote reason to hope that she would come especially close, let alone pull off a win.

Something major happened in the last 24 hours. Consider that about 280,000 people voted in the Democratic primary. In Monday's polling, Barack Obama was ahead by as much as 12%. That represents, given actual turnout, a lead of 30,000 votes. Clinton won by a little more than 6,000. So - again, in the space of just 24 hours - a huge number of voters, thousands of them, changed their minds. Why?

I think it was mostly a rebellion by women voters against the media. Most major media outlets had written Clinton's obituary and could barely conceal their joy in doing so. And voters, especially women voters, said: not so fast.

I've seen this happen before. In the fall of 2000, she debated her opponent in the race for the New York senate seat she won that year. The opponent, Rick Lazio, strode over to her podium and wagged his finger in her face. The media loved the moment, thought Lazio looked tough and declared him the winner.

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/michael_tomasky/2008/01/the_clinton_rebellion.html

What is Bush doing in the Middle East?
He's on a last ditch effort to try and scramble together a ME peace plan, which he can then claim as a Bush legacy before his departure from office. But it's a case of too little too late, and he won't meet with any lasting success.
He might also be hatching a plan with Israel to launch an attack on Iran, at some future date this year, when he may need a distraction.

Crystal let us hope that saner minds prevail. A war with Iran would drive oil prices through the roof. Though it my spur development of a viable alternative fuel and not one of that is of our food sources, ie., corn.

I feel quiet and detached at all of this. Looking through the wrong end of a telescope, the thing that feels right.

Hey Karen, thanks for giving me the feedback on the GMO article, it is something I've followed for a few years now, but this really is stomach churning. Many many years ago I was given a message that there would be a world wide famine in 2008. I don't do predictions much, as they usually end up sounding crackpot. I hope this one is, too.

Good to hear from Laurie, too....

Morgana, as you wrote this article, I am wondering if you can tell at what point we would be able to recognize the energies being described...do you have to take a really long view? Can you tell right away? Do you ever go back and look to see if you were describing something that actually then happened? You wrote:

The New Moon is sextile Uranus, and semi-sextile Neputune. The Moon, representative of the People in a chart, are birthing The Change. Uranus, unexpected upheavel, flying monkey wrenchs. Neptune, the Weaver of Dreams. These are the energies flavoring the Peoples thoughts and will be reflected in tonights voter results.

The flying monkeywrenches caught my eye....as it kind of describes the outcome in NH. Which of course, happened after you wrote it...

OH MY....my young Marine friend in Iraq just wrote:

I just read that congress gave themselves a $4,100 dollar pay raise but voted to put our 3.5% pay raise on hold until the funds become available. I’m absolutely sick.

Barney Frank writes eloquently at HuffPo about Obama's campaign statements about Refighting the Nineties. He calls it generational politics, but he does outline ALL the reasons why the bashing of those fights (and the Clintons) this way is wrong. I say we all probably have forgotten the political battles of the past and shouldn't. Frank writes:

This brings me to my particular concern with Senator Obama's vehement disassociation of himself and those he seeks to represent from "the fights of the nineties." I am very proud of many of the fights I engaged in in the nineties, as well as the eighties and before. Senator Obama also bemoans the "same bitter partisanship" of that period and appears to me to be again somewhat critical of those of us who he believes to have been engaged in it.
I agree that it would have been better not to have had to fight over some of the issues that occupied us in the nineties. But there would have been only one way to avoid them -- and that would have been to give up. More importantly, the only way I can think of to avoid "refighting the same fights we had in the 1990's", to quote Senator Obama, is to let our opponents win these fights without a struggle.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rep-barney-frank/refight-the-nineties_b_80751.html

He goes on to profile those fights. Perhaps this is what changed some minds in NH also...people who are of a certain age and vote found this just a wrong thing to say, and they changed their minds and went to Clinton.

Waaaaaaaaaaaaah! Where is QOP? I miss her!

Shy, she has the flu and is off line for a bit, she will be back

JudiG, lore has it that the lunar energies are felt two days before and two days after, eclipses and ingresses about six weeks out. I actually wrote this while I was working so it's shorter and more off the cuff. I try to make sense of the intensity of the energy and the possible manifestations their interplay can bring. I have a pool table in my head half the time.

Do I go back and re-read to see if I was right, actually I don't. Bush hasn't attacked Iran which I thought the nut job would have by now, there have been enough triggers to his chart. Which is where I get the hope that we the people, our energies are thwarting the work of darkness. I'm mostly forward looking, but sometimes I am right enough to scare myself.

Looks like questions of computer election fraud goes back to GHWBush and Bob Dole in New Hampshire in 1988

http://www.margieburns.com/blog/_archives/2008/1/9/3455407.html

The more things change the more they stay the same.

Judi

Of course Barney Frank would support the
Clintons - his sister, Ann Lewis, has been with Hillary for years. She has been on TV quite a lot the past couple of weeks.

Hi Shy,
I'm here..........doing very mundane things.
laundry, getting in groceries, hacking away at the ice on the front porch! Preparing for an intensive creative outpouring.
And working toward reducing rather than adding as per the cosmic path!
The media has been shoving Hillary/Obama, down our gullets for months now; and voila, look who's left standing in the Democatic field. Now Edwards is being rudely shoved out the back door as well. Yet ALL the Repug clowns, except Tancredo & Hunter, are very much intact and given WAY too much respect, & air time. I am in despair over the gullibility of the American public.

Did anyone else get a christmas card from Chuck Hagel & family? I did! ?????????
And Bloomburg is going to announce: ( breaking news on Anderson Cooper last night.)
QOP

QOP, Hope ya'll is feeling better! Looks like if we want to have a viable candidate that is not Clinton or Obama, we'd better start sending money to Edwards to keep him in the race. At this point he's starting to seem better and better.

Geez Pat you sure rebounded FAST! Must be all that energetic purpose. So glad to see you back.

Every Thursday the Aquarium Age by Ralfee Finn is published on Star IQ http://stariq.com/Main/Articles/P0008402.HTM

Most of her pieces are broad overviews of the week, some more long range. Most are inspirational.

The CIA destruction of interrogation tape story is being swept under the rug, and fast. If the candidates were asked about this, what would their responses be?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/10/washington/10intel.html?ref=world

Good for Bangor Daily News, Maine! Be sure to read the last paragraph I posted

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/29955

Bangor (Maine) Daily News First Major Newspaper to Editorialize in Favor of Impeaching Cheney
Submitted by davidswanson on Wed, 2008-01-09

Cheney Impeachment
By BDN Staff, Bangor Daily News

Over the past 18 months, a core group of Democrats and others from the left has steadfastly maintained that President Bush and Vice President Cheney should be impeached. Mainstream Democrats in Congress are sympathetic to their arguments, but most have bowed to the political reality that impeachment proceedings would gridlock the federal government in the last year of the Bush administration, distract lawmakers from resolving problems that affect the daily lives of Americans, and possibly trigger an endless cycle of reprisal impeachment attempts for future administrations.

There is another angle on this difficult question, raised by Rep. Michael Michaud in a Dec. 21 letter to Rep. John Conyers, chairman of the House Judiciary Committee. "There is no doubt that at the very least this Administration has dangerously expanded the scope of executive authority and flaunted the constitutionally defined separation of powers," Rep. Michaud wrote.

The letter urges Rep. Conyers to schedule impeachment hearings on Mr. Cheney, though not on the president’s conduct. Those supporting impeachment argue Cheney in his role in the administration has repeatedly violated the Constitution on matters such as warrantless telephone eavesdropping, deliberately misled Congress and the American people about the threat posed by Iraq and Iran, revealed the name of a CIA agent, and ordered the abuse of prisoners in violation of international treaties.

The specific alleged abuses of power will, for the most part, fade away when the Bush-Cheney administration leaves Washington. But the "dangerously expanded" powers of the executive branch cited by Rep. Michaud could remain in place. Those powers will be inherited regardless of which party takes the White House, and while Democrats may relish the opportunities that come with an expanded presidency, ultimately, such an imbalance in the government is unhealthy and will increase the chance of future abuses.

Luna, comment section is not showing up for me, so what did you say?

Thank you, Cap'n Sally for the update on QOP and WELCOME BACK!, QOP. We missed you.

Here's also a very interesting article about Diebold in the northeast. Guy in charge is a felon, it seems:
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=5537

karen, I'm not sure what you mean. I posted an article from the Bangor Daily News and basically said good for them. Or do you mean something else? Sorry, it's early and my brain is slow to wake up.

And I guess all of you have heard about Blackwater gassing (CS, no less) our troops in Baghdad. If you haven't, go here
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/10/world/middleeast/10blackwater.html?ex=1357707600&en=485ff9c8753a4e84&ei=5124&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink

and if that link doesn't work, talkingpointmemo.com and others have the story.

How much longer, Lawd, how much longer?

At this point even if they made the voting machines perfect no one would believe them. I don't. They should just get rid of them or they're going to have everyone questioning the votes.

Again, Blackwater used a violent method of "control" the traffic flow. On a very, very mundane level (and not at all like the horror being perpetrated in Iraq, Afghanistan, and on and on and on), this is much like all the near misses we've all had arrogant and dangerous SUV drivers who barely stop short of bumping you off the road -- especially when you're driving a very small car.

This damnable arrogance is being exampled and perpetuated. See this: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article19031.htm

Luna, i misread your post on impeachment. I thought that you added a comment after the article. Otherwise, it was an encouraging bit of news in light of what's NOT happening regarding Sibel Edmonds, the prosecution of whoever authorized waterboarding in the CIA, the ongoing onslaught of our food and environment, etc., etc.

"I am in despair over the gullibility of the American public."

Oh lord I am sick of them too, you would still think we are picking someone's speech writer and not a candidate. We know so little about any of them except their sound bites and their speeches.

They say Bloomberg is once again thinking of running, is he better than any of the others from either side (he runs as an independent) The country is in a mess and it will take a lot of work to go forward and no one seems capable of taking it forward. It's not a President who can steer, they need a decent Congress and we don't have that at this time. Makes a person want to give up completely and just go with whatever ride they offer.

Well hello all--Shy, all, by now you surely know my take on what just happened in NH--the same Diebold that promised to deliver Ohio for Shrub in 04 was put in play for the "more of the same" Hill campaign.

After all, the only polls that were off were the Dem final results, which showed Obama winning. Interesting, no?

Contrary to this nasty little tidbit on how extensive surveillance measures are throughout the world --
http://www.privacyinternational.org:80/article.shtml?cmd%5B347%5D=x-347-559597 -- i'm actually thankful and oh-so happy to share with y'all on this energizing board.

Sally, our Cap'n, i've a feeling things are going to get a lot worse before long. But, if my own experiences apply -- when it is darkest, most hopeless, an event/person/animal enters my consciousness and a transformation takes place. I have faith that this will happen on a world-wide basis, albeit slowly. Maybe, in fact, it is happening right now! Beam me up, Scotty!

WV...did you actually read Frank's piece? I really agreed with him, and in the comments section, a lot of people said the same thing....that Obama had made this in to generational politics. And I did not know that Barney's sister worked for Hillary, but what difference does it make? It doesn't change who he is or what the 90's fights were about. And none of those have seemed to change. What Obama did is say 'I don't want anything to do with those years' and the younger supporters said, yay, old farts still fighting those old battles. (pretty much what the comments from Obama supporters said). This maybe exactly why people changed their votes. Which I prefer to believe than to drag out the voting machine stuff....at least it is more dignified to think that the voters had something to do with it than that we are all VICTIMS.

Actually these are pretty much the same attitudes and battles being fought 200 years ago.

huffington post:
Clinton Insider: 'Iron My Shirt' Taunt Rallied Women Voters
ConsortiumNews.com | Robert Parry | January 10, 2008 09:10 AM

One source inside the Clinton camp said the "iron my shirts" comment appeared to anger and energize women in particular, boosting Hillary Clinton's share of the women's vote and pushing her to a narrow upset victory over Barack Obama.

The Clinton source said Hillary Clinton's tearing up at another Monday event seemed to play better with men who suddenly saw her as more vulnerable and appealing. The two incidents together were viewed by Clinton insiders as helping to explain how Clinton succeeded in righting her foundering campaign at the last minute.

And now one of those "old farts" has come out with an endorsement of Obama.............
John Kerry! I don't know why he didn't endorse Edwards, who was his VP running mate last year.......
curiouser & curioser!
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/10/kerry.obama/index.html

"Barack Obama isn't just going to break the mold," said Kerry, the Democratic presidential candidate four years ago. "Together, we are going to shatter it into a million pieces."

Maybe Kerry knows something I just don't see?

QOP

Also, I just want to make clear that I am not bashing anyone with these posts, people whom I don't agree with, etc. I just go, like Morgana mentioned, on what the energy feels like. And it didn't feel like NH was monkeyed with, it felt like voters were thinking about more than just a feel good 'change' message aimed at younger voters. That alone is a victory. That being said, like Edwards (whom I like also) said...there are 48 more primaries coming. So lets give the voters some credit, too, and see what happens in the end. I imagine at the end there will be a great deal of horse trading prior to the convention itself. As there always has been, not to mention much dirty politics and other unsavory subjects. I mean, my own personal favorite JFK won when all those people in the cemeteries in Chicago voted...! But it wasn't in a primary that happened. And I'm also not saying voting machine monkeying didn't happen or did happen or that polls were wrong because everything is being orchestrated by 'the elite'...I just don't believe or feel in the energy realms that it happened here.

Edwards DID attend the Bilderburg several years ago. ( As did Bill Clinton, when he won his first election, against popular expectations.)q
QOP

Hi Pat QOP....hope you are nicely rested for the battles. A friend sent the Obama annoucement by Kerry to me....IN FRENCH. I thought it might be what it was, but my passing aquaintance with Latin didn't allow me to translate the French....it was pretty funny, as it was sent to her by a former Clinton intern.

Don't know what Kerry is thinking, I'm not him, and none of us can do more than conjecture at this point. Politics, alignments...oh yes, horse trading?

PatQOP...a question, in general, about Bilderburg. Do you think that ANY president would be able to function without a passing aquaintance with or in this group? Is it deluded to think that there could be someone who could win an election at that level who had the clout or nerve to ignore them? I try to put myself into that spot, and figure out what the alternatives are? Do I cooperate or ignore? who knows....but one thing is for sure, power isn't easily ignored.

QOP, so Edwards has attended Bilderburg, that is interesting.

Kerry endorsing Obama doesn't impress me one whit. Might not be such an asset to him.

Has Obama been to Bilderburg? It's like they have to pass muster with this bunch, or what?

Bloomberg, well he certainly isn't a populist.

My thoughts exactly..............followed by, ( do I recall Obama from the list of Bilderberg attendees? He wasn't on my radar until he announced his candidacy. ) I will research it later tonight!
QOP

And that begs the question................
Has Hillary attended the Bilderberg?
Did she go WITH Bill in '90-91? when he went?

Of course Bloomberg has been there more than once!
I think Edwards was there in 2002, 2003?
Jon Corzine also. Note he has transited from Sen. to Gov of NJ.
QOP

Here's an endorsement I really respect!
Bradley was my first choice before Gore.
http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/112-01072008-1467018.html
TRENTON — Former U.S. Sen. Bill Bradley is the latest celebrity on Barack Obama's bench.
QOP

Hmmmm...well there is always the possibility that all these men don't want a woman as president, I suppose.

Is Bradley a Super Delegate? Kerry I believe is one of the Super Delegates.

Hey everyone! Happy New Year!

A sometime cranky lurker from Albany NY here, I wanted to throw this into the meditation mix. This is from Ran Prieur's website:

"You've probably seen those four-square charts, with authority vs freedom on one axis, and corporate rule vs socialism on the other axis. The Democrats used to stand for freedom and socialism, and the Republicans for authority and corporate rule, but now 'If we take Huckabee on the one hand and Clinton on the other, you have a split between a socialist/authoritarian and a capitalist/objectivist.'

"I would put it this way: now both parties stand for authority and corporate rule, for repression at home and conquest abroad... but among the Republicans, it's permissible to make exceptions. Huckabee can get away with being a socialist, and Ron Paul can almost get away with aggressively opposing the war and the police state. Any Democrat who takes those positions (like Kucinich or Gravel) is pushed to the fringe. This is because American politics is like an abusive family, and the Republicans are the abusive father, and the Democrats are the abused wife, and we're the kids, some of us broken and some of us still rebellious. The father can disobey his own rules, but the wife must obey them perfectly. Hillary Clinton, as a woman in this culture, has a lifetime of training in cringing, in sensing just exactly what the biggest bully wants, and doing exactly that. This is why so many Democrats support her even though they disagree with her on the issues and they find her uninspiring and they know Obama is more electable. On a subconscious level, they are resonating with her 'expediency,' her submission to the Abuser. When they say they support her for her 'experience,' they mean her experience in being broken, like them."

<<<<<

Like I keep saying: Being an American qualifies everyone who calls themselves one to be a member of Al-Anon! But it's a program for those who want it. (Might as well call it "Amer-Anon!")

blessings!

Remember all that phone tapping that went on--illegally--because it was sooooooo important we stop the terrists from attacking us again? Well, turns out the telecoms disconnected the taps when the feds failed to pay the bills. And, of course, somebody made some illegal money off it, too. When will tax-payers decide the don't want to be suckers anymore?
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/mochila.php?articleId=11476508&channelId=76&buyerId=talkingpointsmemo_com400732&buid=866

Submit a question for the Democratic Debate on January 15th.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22574335

http://www.buyingofthepresident.org/

QOP, thank god you're here! You said it all...it's like having one's reality erased. Edwards especially now is getting suffocated by the press as if he doesn't exist! But he does. You know it I know it everybody can see the trick being pulled here. Corporate PABLUM de jour.
Bad enough Kucinich, but the most viably on the progressive side, the give-us-back-our-constitution-side with the b***s to kick corporate rears suddenly gets "The Blackout".

May Edwards shine like the goddamn SUN in all coming debates and primaries thru Feb 5 for all our sakes.

When was the last time you heard "Don't count the votes."?

http://www.bradblog.com/

AUDIO: Brad on this Morning's Stephanie Miller Show

Discussing NH, and the 'Progressive' Crackpots Who Don't Believe Ballots Should Actually be Counted in Primary Elections...

10 minutes on this morning's Stephanie Miller Show. Discussing why things like actually counting the ballots in New Hampshire would have been a great idea. And on the lunacy and self-destructiveness of progressives (like this uninformed front-pager over at dKos, and his even lesser-informed followers, such as Markos himself) buying into the conspiracy theory that the dozens of verified, independent, multiple-sourced pre-election polls were wrong, but the unverified and uncounted election results, as announced, are somehow magically known to be accurate.

The results might well be right. But unlike the transparent and verifiable polls, no human being has actually bothered to count or even examine 80% of the ballots in NH. So whose the irresponsible crackpot here? Some of these folks are digging their own November grave.

We stay up all night without sleeping and go on Steph's show, you decide...

........................

Why Hillary Won

By KARL ROVE

January 10, 2008; Page A15

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119992615845679531.html

What would Shakespeare's Jack Cade say after the New Hampshire Democratic primary? Maybe the demagogue in "Henry VI" would call for the pollsters to be killed first, not the lawyers. The opinion researchers find themselves in a difficult place after most predicted a big Obama sweep. It's not their fault. The dirty secret is it is hard to accurately poll a primary. The unpredictability of who will turn out and what the mix of voters will be makes polling a primary election like reading chicken entrails -- ugly, smelly and not very enlightening. Our media culture endows polls -- especially exit polls -- with scientific precision they simply don't have.

But more interesting than dissecting the pollsters is dissecting the election returns, precinct by precinct. Sen. Hillary Clinton won working-class neighborhoods and less-affluent rural areas. Sen. Barack Obama won the college towns and the gentrified neighborhoods of more affluent communities. Put another way, Mrs. Clinton won the beer drinkers, Mr. Obama the white wine crowd. And there are more beer drinkers than wine swillers in the Democratic Party.

Mrs. Clinton won a narrow victory in New Hampshire for four reasons. First, her campaign made a smart decision at its start to target women Democrats, especially single women. It has been made part of the warp and woof of her campaign everywhere. This focus didn't pay off in Iowa, but it did in New Hampshire.

Second, she had two powerful personal moments. The first came in the ABC debate on Saturday, when WMUR TV's Scott Spradling asked why voters were "hesitating on the likeability issue, where they seem to like Barack Obama more." Mrs. Clinton's self-deprecating response -- "Well, that hurts my feelings" -- was followed by a playful "But I'll try to go on."

More at the link....

I guess Karl Rove will not go quietly into the night....what a pity, I read the article before I realized who the author was. He's probably scouting for a new protege.

I guess we can expect more of the same from the WSJ since it's now owned by Murdoch.

In case anyone is interested, Bill Richardson withdrew at 1:12 pm mountain time today.

Forget Rove's and all the other cockamamie reasons for Hillary's win in NH. This is most likely the reason why....

http://weblogs.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/blog/2008/01/did_nh_polls_miss_effect_of_ra.html

"WASHINGTON (AP) - Americans born after Dec. 1, 1964, will have to get more secure driver's licenses in the next six years under ambitious post-9/11 security rules to be unveiled Friday by federal officials.

The Homeland Security Department has spent years crafting the final regulations for the REAL ID Act, a law designed to make it harder for terrorists, illegal immigrants and con artists to get government- issued identification. The effort once envisioned to take effect in 2008 has been pushed back in the hopes of winning over skeptical state officials. "

http://tinyurl.com/3afozt

By Bernard Weiner, The Crisis Papers

Here's what I think could happen in 2008, some good, some bad, and a whole lot of ugly.

For purposes of stimulating some out-of-the-box thinking, I've come up with some scenarios that may seem over-the-top, but I hope the extreme visions might provide lessons for action.

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/12034
QOP

Sorry, but here is the original easier to read.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/10/opinion/10kohut.html?_r=1&ref=opinion&oref=slogin

Well, on tonight's news, Bush said that 50,000 troops will be withdrawn from Iraq by the end of the year, leaving just 100,000, plus the myriad problems there, that the new administration will inherit. And like Clinton before him, he's racing to cobble together some kind of ME peace agreement (that as usual won't stick), in his final 8-year term, before he leaves office.

Big pharma and the Pentagon have come up with one of the more demonic schemes we've seen in a while. They want to drug our troops so they will be less sensitive to pain, suffering--you know, all the horrors of war.
http://www.alternet.org/healthwellness/72956/?page=3

I now have to retire to try and get my head back together--to say nothing of my blood pressure.

Ok, I gotta 'splain the race polarization that exists in this country, and how it will carryover into the election, despite the best intentions of those who try to distance themselves from it. This is what I have observed. When the average black Democratic face is on TV, and is asked the question: "Who will you vote for"? Nine out of 10 times they will say Clinton. When the white Democratic face is on TV and asked the same question, the answer will be Obama. Why? Because they're in the public eye, and they don't want to appear racist. It's the same thing that happens at the polls. Now, by the time voting day rolls around, the faces will more likely do the opposite to what they said they were going to do on TV. That is not to say, that a cross-section of whites will not vote for Obama, and some blacks for Clinton, but any time you have 2 different races opposing each other in elections, by the time the candidates get finished with the mud slinging, there is going to be race polarization.

Now, some people are at a loss to explain why it didn't happen in Iowa -easy. For one, you had to vote in the open, so it wasn't easy to say one thing and do the other. The other reason could be that voters there empathized more with the fact that Obama's mother was from the Midwest (Kansas). Notice that Edwards placed 2nd there with a narrow margin from Hillary, probably because he has been virtually living there for the past 4 years(off and on).

Now comes the fight for the other Democratic ethnic groups, and how they will line up - American Indians, East Indians, Asians, Hispanic, and everything in between. My feeling is, that Obama will get the majority of these votes because of his wide appeal, and his unity theme. Clinton will get the rest.

But it doesn't end there, because in addition to race polarization, you also have gender polarization - man/woman/straight/gay, which will further distort the polls.

And that my friends, is a realistic look at how the Primaries are shaping up. In other words, outcome difficult to forecast.

Watching Mosaic News on link TV...................

Our enfant terrible, joked when asked about the difficulty of Palestinians going through the checkpoints: " Mha motercade of 45 cars went right through."
( He had 75 cars to go to Bethlehem!)
AWFUL MAN!

"You'll be HAPPY to hear...ma motercade of 45 cars made it thu without being stopped!"

OpEd news article on NH - here we go again ...

http://www.opednews.com/articles/genera_amydemic_080110__22hey_ron_paul_2c_i_m_i.htm

New Moon in Cappy ... very well put!

http://www.opednews.com/articles/life_a_c_l___pa_080107_capricorn_new_moon_2c_.htm

And don't forget, that in the house of potential future horrors, Sadr declared a six-month moratorium on the blood letting by his "army" in Iraq in September. So we're coming up on that soon. Will this never end?
http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=11980

Good Morning,
It is 4:40 AM in Maine, your posts say,4:11, & 4:48 AM. What is the time framework for this blog??
QOP

Ah, QOP. If it was about 4:48 am in Maine when you posted that message, and the computer says you posted it at 9:45 am, then, obviously, the computer is (or thinks it is) located in Europe. Perhaps GMT, which is what I figure is happening. But, whatta I know? Maybe Garry can explain it all to us.

I realized the time difference in the posts many moons ago, and figured out the reason for it, but chose not to bring it up, as I thought Sally may have wanted to keep it confidential.

http://www.democracyfornewhampshire.com/node/view/5324

We need to eliminate secret vote counting, not a recount

New Hampshire's primary delivered a "surprise" upset victory to Senator Hillary Clinton, contradicting all pre-election poll predictions and even the facts on the ground, which showed Senator Obama with a strong lead and enthusiastic overflow crowds at every New Hampshire appearance.

Political pundits in the corporate media and citizen journalists in the Blogosphere alike are all asking the same question: What happened in New Hampshire?

It's pretty easy to see what happened in New Hampshire: We had an election in which 81% of our ballots were counted in secret by a private corporation, and this resulted in an outcome that is called into question.

That's what happened.

More at the link...

http://www.veteransforcommonsense.org/articleid/9109

Jan. 11: Victory for Veterans - Judge Rules in Favor of VCS in Case Against VA

January 10, 2008, Washington, DC – The U.S. District Court in San Francisco today handed an enormous victory to veterans who sued the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) over lengthy delays for medical care and disability benefits. The Judge’s ruling means our class action lawsuit against VA will move forward, with the first court hearing scheduled for next month.

More at the link....

More whacky weather in another part of the world.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080111/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_first_snow_in_memory

Is Bill an asset, or liability for Hill?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/bill_clinton_s_role

Comment
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Welcome, Mr President, to the misery you've created
In eight years Palestinians have seen the bald eagle of enlightened US power degenerate into a phoney, biased, cynical lame duck

Jonathan Steele
Friday January 11, 2008

Guardian

It is a well-deserved irony for George Bush that his first presidential visit to Israel coincided this week with the storm of excitement produced by the unexpected outcome of the two New Hampshire primaries. Nothing could better highlight the irrelevance of the final year of the Bush presidency.
The moment at which an incumbent becomes a lame duck fluctuates in every US administration, depending on circumstances. The day on which the first votes are cast is traditionally the symbolic date, even though the race has been under way in the media for months. This year's riveting contests in New Hampshire certainly proved that true, overshadowing whatever interest there was in Bush's plans for influencing the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Even before the president left Washington, expectations for his visit were low. His much-trumpeted meeting of Middle Eastern leaders in Annapolis in November produced a predictably tinny follow-up. Little happened in the subsequent six weeks, and it was only courtesy to Bush that impelled Ehud Olmert and Mahmoud Abbas to meet again in advance of the president's touchdown in Tel Aviv on Wednesday and produce the blandest pretence of progress. According to Olmert's spokesman, they agreed to "authorise their negotiating teams to conduct direct and ongoing negotiations on all the core issues". Isn't this tautological statement merely a repeat of what they had already launched in Annapolis?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,,332032819-103677,00.html

Hi Folks I believe we run on GMT.

I saw where Dennis Kucinich has called for a recount in New Hampshire.

I wish they would I am already sick of the Hillary is in bed with Diebold noise, and if she is better we know now then after the horse has been chosen in our race.

http://agonist.org/numerian/20080110/follow_the_money

snip

If and as these trends persist, expect to read more in the press about deflation as the most serious economic problem, not inflation. It takes a while for the mainstream press to catch up to these trends, but eventually even they cannot ignore the data. Of course, with gold at record highs and oil near $100/bbl, it hardly seems like inflation can be ignored, but remember that we live in a world of asset inflation and paper deflation. Things like bank deposits and investment paper are declining in value, and these declines will eventually swamp any asset deflation left in the global economy.

How could so much paper value disappear almost overnight? Why is it that Merrill Lynch among others has to keep writing down their mortgage securities? It all has to do with years of binging on debt and loading up on leverage. As an example, many of the mortgage-backed securities and complex derivative structures known as Collateralized Debt Obligations were repackaged and resold, sometimes into instruments that offered compounded rates of return based on squaring or cubing the returns generated from the underlying cash flows. Unfortunately, the securitization process left no one responsible for whether these cash flows would truly be paid, which allowed billions of dollars of dicey mortgages to be booked. When 5% of these cash flows default, this ripples through the financial sector in a compounded way, because so many different securities are counting over and over on these cash flows to be made. In some of the weaker credit instruments like sub-prime securities, over 20% of the cash flows are in default, so it is easy to see how 100% of the security's value can disappear quickly.

As to all the reflation that the Fed has done and has promised for the future, it seems as if the liquidity is being thrown at the banking system and is stuck there. The usual lines of credit from banks to the Wall Street investment banks are shut down. The billions of dollars that would flow daily from the banks to mortgage brokers and on to individual borrowers is now severely constrained. No money is being lent by the banks to the private equity sector for highly leveraged acquisitions, not while the banks are sitting on hundreds of billions of dollars of loans they promised to make but can no longer expect to remove from their balance sheets. Since we now live in a world where banks have to hold on to their loans, they are seriously constrained in their lending by the amount of capital they have. And their capital has been shrinking due to all the write-offs of mortgage securities. So the Fed reflation efforts are being stymied because the banks are sitting on the liquidity and not lending it out.

More at the link...

Sorry Frostwolff, I did not ok your post in what I consider a timely manner, that's the problem when one can't spend 24/7 at the computer. Anyway your post is there now and a very warm welcome (unless you are in NY where it's already warm)

QOP there is no time frame that I can figure out on this blog and I can't get a straight answer. I have noticed the same complaint on other blogs so I believe it's a universal problem, but the issue has always been here from the beginning.

Pat C, did you see where Bank of America bought out CityWide to keep it from going into bankruptcy? I don't see how this is going to pull itself back out. Although in England, six months ago the Bank of England was ready to collapse and there was a run on a couple of other banks, and houses were sitting on the market like stones. Now things are back to booming, can't figure that one out. Maybe we will have the same experience.

I hope so Sally. It's no longer an American economy, but a global one, and I can only hope that they need us as much as we need them. Scary to me.

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/01/10/bush-poll-prediction/

White House Predicts ‘Remarkable Shift’: Bush Will Leave Office With 45 Percent Approval

Bush’s job approval numbers may be mired in the low 30s right now, but U.S. News’ Washington Whispers reports that Bush aides predict he’ll be at 45 percent when he leaves office:

More at the link...

The Huffington Post

Stewart vs. Matthews Round 2: Jon Calls Chris Insane

Huffington Post | January 10, 2008 02:54 PM

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/10/stewart-vs-matthews-roun_n_80941.html

Media Misses Story: Obedwards Wins New Hampshire

Posted January 10, 2008 | 02:25 PM (EST)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As media commentators proclaim Hillary Clinton's rebirth from the ashes of defeat, they miss a critical story -- Obama and Edwards won the New Hampshire primary. Add together Obama's 36 percent and Edwards's 17, and they beat Clinton's 39 percent by 14 points. And because the Democratic primaries have proportionate representation, they'll in fact come out with more combined delegates -- 13 to Clinton's 9. Though polls are elusive, I've talked or corresponded with hundreds of supporters of both of them, pored through hundreds of blog responses, and from everything I can tell, those backing Obama or Edwards solidly pick the other as their second choice. So if only one were running, they'd be opening up an unambiguous lead. But because Clinton's two main opponents have effectively split the vote, her three-point victory over Obama has revived a campaign that seemed on the verge of meltdown just a few days ago, and left her again the media favorite.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-loeb/media-misses-story-obedw_b_80930.html

wv that clip is priceless. I am so glad TDS and Colbert Report are back, now we can get some real news. Lawrence of Arabia, oh pleeeezzeeee.

"Remarkable shift" my hind foot! That would be a seismic shift, and fat chance of that occurring.

Speaking of seismic, do check out this site. It is very cool. And it even gives the event time!
http://hisz.rsoe.hu/alertmap/index.php?smp=&lang=eng

Shut Up, Larry

Posted January 11, 2008 | 11:58 AM (EST)

When I read Lawrence O'Donnell's post calling John Edwards a "loser" and threatening a lifetime of infamy if he doesn't get out of the race, I immediately went to O'Donnell's bio to see his party affiliation. I was sure it would say "R" -- but it didn't. It didn't say anything.

However, I am fairly sure in my own mind that Karl Rove paid him to write that post. Look at it this way: O'Donnell attacks the only candidate in the race with explicitly progressive policy positions, and the only candidate in the race who hasn't accepted corporate money, and the only candidate in the race who understands how corporations are poisoning American politics and American life with their unrestrained power and influence.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jane-smiley/shut-up-larry_b_81091.html

From Steve Judd...

10 Jan 08.25

After three decades of exploration, research and personal experience, my ongoing conclusion is that the majority of doctors are unknowingly conniving in perpetuating the patriarchal dogma that runs society. ‘Witchcraft’ is really the repression and denial of herbal and botanical medicine. Everyone knows Culpepper’s Herbal – on the last page it gives instructions for use, firstly to those astrologically trained and secondly to the profane. And it gives the times to reap and sow as well as how to use the plants. What better metaphor for unity than that of medicine and food growing from a land nurtured and warmed by the sky God, and regulated and supported by the sky Goddess. Scientists, priests, doctors – ‘your conscience is the measure of the honesty of your selfishness. Listen to it carefully’. (Illusions, Richard Bach)

Look at this map of the State Parks that Arnold wants to close down in California. He wants to have them patrolled so no one will trespass.

http://govbud.dof.ca.gov/BudgetSummary/ImagePages/FG-RES-01.html

[from a previous link from the SF Chronicle}
Parks would be closed under the budget proposed today by Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger.

The parks, which would not close until the governor and Legislature agree on a spending plan sometime later this year, would be off-limits until the state's financial situation improves, officials said.

Money will be spent for patrols to keep people out of the closed parks, officials said.

Statewide, the governor has proposed closing 48 sites.

PatC, well, getting Bush's numbers to 45% by the time he leaves should be a cinch for these guys ... after all, they have single handedly been able to bring our economy to it's knees (soon to be interred in a cemetery), shipped all our jobs off to the Chinese (and haven't had a revolt yet!), stolen 2 or more elections, lied (and continue to lie) about our economic indicators without blushing. Shucks! Mending the polls to say 45% (for a day at least) should be a sneeze!

Marta, it would take a WELL MANAGED poll! :-D))

http://www.guardian.co.uk/feedarticle?id=7217369

U.S. corporate elite fear candidate Edwards

Ask corporate lobbyists which presidential contender is most feared by their clients and the answer is almost always the same -- Democrat John Edwards.

The former North Carolina senator's chosen profession alone raises the hackles of business people. Before entering politics, he made a fortune as a trial lawyer.
In litigious America, trial lawyers bring lawsuits against companies on behalf of aggrieved individuals and sometimes win multimillion-dollar settlements. Edwards won several.

But beyond his profession, Edwards' tone and language on the campaign trail have increased business antipathy toward him. His stump speeches are peppered with attacks on "corporate greed" and warnings of "the destruction of the middle class."

More at the link....

Lunaoscura, well gee so if we approve Arnie's Indian gambling initiatives which is touted to fix the problems here (great rolling of eyes), may be we can use our parks again. Most the Californians I know would go right ahead and use the parks anyway, where else do the homeless go?

Yes, PatC, "well-managed", like everything else in this country.

Luna, has it occurred to you that Arnie is closing the parks so they can cut down all the trees and build super secure housing for the republican elite so they're safe when the *&$% hits the fan and everybody is fighting for food? I guess they'll leave some trees for landscaping. You won't be able to tell they cut all the trees down. They'll leave a fringe at the edge so it'll look as if they're still there (kinda like the economy - it helps to believe). But there's no there, there, of course.

Well, it looks like Bush is fixin' for a fight. Sounds just like the rhetoric leading up to the Iraq war. This might be the way he chooses to raise his ratings to 45%. Now I'm wondering how much of the Iranian boat incident is true, since it looks like the menacing voice recording that sounded like "I'm coming to blow you up" (which sounded ridiculous to me anyway) which supposedly came from one of the men in the boats, has now been attributed to a separate recording that emanated from someone else. I think warmonger Bush has already planned the war with Iran, and is now trying to create conditions to justify it. Same old.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080111/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_iran

Daily Voting News

http://www.scoop.co.nz:80/stories/HL0801/S00097.htm

Found on internet (Starlight News):

"Of COURSE you can trust the US Government! Just ask the Indians."

Priceless!

ROFL...did I say ICEBERGS ahead!!!

From Tony Fratto...

But not at the Bush White House. Despite an emerging consensus about the dangers looming for the U.S. economy, White House spokesman Tony Fratto on Monday said the Bush administration sees no recessionary icebergs ahead.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/1/11/16448/2822/43/435243

Morgana, what does ROFL stand for ... excuse my obtuseness ....?

rolling on floor laughing

Morgana, thanks! Funny!

Thanks Morgana.............I wondered too.
It's LOL on steroids!

Then there is ROFLMAO

wv, is that the chinese version of rolling on the floor laughing .... ROFLMAO? Oh, dear ...

Pat C -- Please email me. Thanks.

Barbara

Rolling On The Floor Laughing My Ass Off (ROFLMAO)

Marta,

Yes, it does occur to me. I am in California, so I know all about Arnie.

Barbara, do you have a gmail account that you can post so that I can do that? I don't want you to post your real e-mail on the internet, but there is no way anyone can see your e-mail under this system.

http://www.sfgate.com/flat/archive/2008/01/11/chronicle/archive/2008/01/11/MNCUUD91O.html?tsp=1

The governor's budget cuts nearly every state department

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, acknowledging that California faces tough economic times, proposed an austere budget Thursday for the next fiscal year that would take billions of dollars from public schools, shut down four dozen state parks and release tens of thousands of prisoners to close a projected $14.5 billion deficit.

Virtually every state department was required to slash 10 percent from this year's spending, a move that would cut services for many Californians, especially the poor, the elderly and the disabled.

"I understand how difficult (the cuts) will be for many people," Schwarzenegger said as he unveiled the budget at a Sacramento news conference. "But we need to be fiscally responsible and spend only the money we have."

The governor also declared a fiscal emergency and called a special session of the Legislature to trim spending during the current year, which at today's levels is expected to put the state as much as $3.3 billion in the hole by the end of the fiscal year in June.

more....

http://www.sfgate.com/flat/archive/2008/01/11/chronicle/archive/2008/01/11/MNCUUD91O.html?tsp=1

The governor's budget cuts nearly every state department

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, acknowledging that California faces tough economic times, proposed an austere budget Thursday for the next fiscal year that would take billions of dollars from public schools, shut down four dozen state parks and release tens of thousands of prisoners to close a projected $14.5 billion deficit.

Virtually every state department was required to slash 10 percent from this year's spending, a move that would cut services for many Californians, especially the poor, the elderly and the disabled.

"I understand how difficult (the cuts) will be for many people," Schwarzenegger said as he unveiled the budget at a Sacramento news conference. "But we need to be fiscally responsible and spend only the money we have."

The governor also declared a fiscal emergency and called a special session of the Legislature to trim spending during the current year, which at today's levels is expected to put the state as much as $3.3 billion in the hole by the end of the fiscal year in June.

more....

Grrrrrrrrrr. The Bush-Auschwitz connection goes back a couple of generations, but the press doesn't know it (or doesn't care or doesn't dare).
http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/73509/

THE WINNING TICKET: HILLARY AND DIEBOLD IN 2008

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article19050.htm

Der Gropenator and his buddies dumped all over Gray Davis for the fiscal mess California was in and Der Gropenator was gonna fix it. Even borrowed a prop from the movie, "O Brother Where Art Thou," and campaigned with a broom to show how he was going to clean up Sacramento. And, of course, balance the budget and blah blah blah. Somehow all that's now been forgotten.

OK, first of all, CA's lovely gov is making a power grab of giant proportions by forcing a vote on whether a constitutional amendment he wants will give him the personal power to slash budgets BY HIMSELF alone; one of the interviews with a political science professor out of Sacramento mentioned that this is NOT a fix of one side or the other of the money raising problem....it is both a REVENUE and a TAX problem. Arnie refuses, as does any repug and a few lousy repub hugging, middle of the road dems, to even consider a tax raising situation. Arnie IS in the same boat as Grey Davis, hahahah, right Shy? thank you for pointing it out, and karma that goes around comes around. This is what happens in repub years....no new taxes, right? Even Mike Huckabee got slammed by his own party...(I watched Bill Moyers Journal last night) for raising taxes, but Huckabee used it to build infrastructure! That is the best use of it, repairing and building new infrastructure, which is crumbling mightily. Our parents and grandparents paid huge taxes to build our roads, bridges, infrastructure of all kinds; and we, the ungrateful brats of these folk, say screw you I want all my money for me and my new Prada bag and trophy wife. I include my self in this, too, as I've always resented paying both ends of FICA and taxes as a self employed person. But geez, here we are confronted with yet another Arnie scheme, saying cut the funding to the poorest and least able to deal with no money in order to save the poor loaded wealthiest people who have more than they could possibly use except for new toys?

Oh sorry, I'm ranting.

Salon has a Manjoo piece on NH election results. This is the more reasoned approach....I personally am sickened by the comments on many different political blogs by supposed dems on Hillary....there is no doubt she is being unmercifully and unfairly slammed. And all by people who DON"T EVEN KNOW or have proof. So lets wait for a recount and not let the pernicious smearing of any democratic candidate by the press to do what the rethugs have already done...smear the Clintons. Don't let them win the election in 2008 by the 15 years of smearing that now seem to even be believed by democrats. http://machinist.salon.com/feature/2008/01/11/new_hampshire_vote/index.html

I am seriously considering once again NOT posting here anymore just because of the sniping. Like Laurie. Or others. Of course, it is hard, as I've been here a long time and it is a great place to get information and fun.

Just try reading posts from other political websites without losing your lunch. It is like some highschool facebook smearing, where kids end up committing suicide from the vitriol.

I searched and found CA's chart at a site I'd never heard of, so not going to refer to it. Apparently, CA's Sun is abt 16 Virgo. With Saturn rolling through in fits and starts, I guess we'll just have to roll with the punches. Clearly, Der Gropenator is not going to come up with any keen ideas to help us out.

Shy, it really struck me as so weird that this story came out of nowhere...I heard folks from county governments talking about being sideswiped by it...on Northern California this Week on PBS, they were talking about it, and the commentator said, well, this is just the opening shot, none of this is going to even be acted on until after June.

Arnie has really tried hard in the last 2 years not to come across as the power mad governor, but it is like....something snapped? He want's this control, He's going back to when he ambushed Grey Davis and our 'enlightened' citizenry then ambushed Grey ..... because he wasn't 'personable' or 'famous' I guess. Gee, if we vote for fun and personable, doesn't that mean GWBush, whom everyone really likes personally? ha.

All of it sounds like King of the Mountain on steroids....ha....that's apt.

Pat, Manjoo and been in denial of any problems with computer voting machines from day one. He went after Mark Crispin Miller and Kennedy as if the were smoking something.

This is not about Candidate A winning or Candidate B losing. This is solely about the hackable, unsecure voting machines (optical scan in NH) that have been investigated and proven to be crap and yet are still deployed to count the majority of elections in this country.

Take a look at this.

http://www.bradblog.com/?p=5532

Tribune Media: MSM Failed to Note 'Hackable Diebold Red Flags' in New Hampshire Primary Results

Syndicated Columnist Robert Koehler Writes for Tomorrow's Papers: 'Possibility of Tainted Results, a Prospect Most of Media Can't Bear'

Notes Problems With NH's Diebold Machines 'Remain Unsolved'...

Syndicated Tribune Media Services columnist Bob Koehler bumps up our serious concerns about last night's wholly untransparent, and still-uncounted (by anything but a hackable Diebold computer, and a company with an executive criminal past, to say the least) New Hampshire Primary election results, from "blogger conspiracy theory" to mainstream media concern.

Here are the first few grafs of his column, set to run in tomorrow's editions of subscribing mainstream media papers...

More at the link....

and this...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzPXer7946E

Judigem, I love your posts, so don't even think about leaving!

Saturn, Shy, is supposed to buckle down the people to work towards something workable; maybe 16 virgo will be transitted in the late summer when the budget impasse usually does come down to the crunch time? It is interesting, as late August thru September has often been, historically, when CA has been shut down for more than a month, sometimes, with these budget fights. Repub gov Pete Wilson was on of the govs who did that a number of times, if I recall. And in reading some of the astrological predictions in the numerous places I've been reading, I seem to recall some saying that the aspects were bad for September time, and maybe Oct also? I read too much to remember which piece said that.

Because the chain of custody may not be good any more, the recount may not be any good now either, let alone that the computer that counts the paper ballots is VERY hackable.

Oh JudiGem, Don't go away again. Your posts are always so informed, straightforward, and refreshing. Just swat the sniping aside.........,mere blackflies! I hadn't noticed any particular thing waaay out of line.

I made a discovery today ,I think.
The ground quick froze back in November, so fast the top soil was crystalized. Then it snowed the 3rd week in December, a LOT, with ice crystals.
The bottom layer which finally thawed this week was like square ice cubes, but Barbie sized.Until this week when it has been in the 40's & 50's, there has been no less then 3 1/2 feet of snow on the ground. I just laid 3 garden pavers 18" X 6" that I hadn't gotten to last fall. All the plants under the snow are green and growing again! thyme, foxglove, columbine, and the honeysuckle vine that was drooped under the snow has blossoms on it!
Are the plants evolving? To adapt to global warming? Didn't the plants used to die, until spring? I don't recall seeing anything quite like this...............

Kuchinic is smart to keep the electronic voting machines in the news and to petition for a recount. Maybe he'll do it every single time the machines are used during the primaries. Two obviously stolen elections (both were proven to be stolen AFTER the fact!) it's time to at least try to stop being stupid. How long does it take for the obvious to sink in!

If you leave your key under your doormat and someone uses it to break into your house and steal everything do you still put your key under the mat?

Shy,

Sally and I both use

September 9 1850, San Jose, California 9:41 AM

Here's the chart I have for California, check out the 29 Pluto and Uranus...

http://morganaseawalker.com/CAchart.jpg

Oooh, many thanks, Miz Morgana. I'll swan, if CA doesn't have one more 29-deg planet than I do. Very interesting chart.

Yup 29 Jupiter too.

from the Salon article (Manjoo)

Was the election stolen?
In the years I've been at Salon, I've begun more than a few articles with that question. Elections are never placid affairs, but in recent years several factors -- 1) crazily hackable voting machines, 2) generally heightened partisanship, 3) very close races, and 4) a real, honest-to-goodness purloined race (see Bush v. Gore) -- have raised the paranoid in all of us. Wondering if any election outcome is honest has become a standard post-election emotion; not wondering, now that's just crazy.
So it came as no surprise that within a few minutes of Hillary Clinton's unexpected win over Barack Obama in New Hampshire on Tuesday people began to ask, Can we trust this? New Hampshire has a history of clean elections (phone jamming notwithstanding), and the state does not use the notorious, paperless touch-screen voting machines that, for more than half a decade now, everyone who knows anything about voting or computers has been saying we can't trust.

snip
I have, as some readers know, been very critical of activists who've confidently asserted that past elections have been stolen -- notably the 2004 race between Bush and John Kerry. (My position: The overwhelming evidence, particularly political scientist Walter Mebane's thorough study, shows that Bush really did win Ohio; if you disagree with me, that's OK.)
The most thorough analysis I've seen was performed by an anonymous supporter of Ron Paul. Of the votes that have been counted so far, Hillary Clinton beat Barack Obama in New Hampshire by 39.03 percent to 36.39 percent. The Ron Paulster's analysis shows that in machine-count areas, Clinton beat Obama by a better margin, 40.12 percent versus 35.76 percent. But in hand-counted areas, Obama beat Clinton by 38.76 percent to 34.70 percent.
In other words, if Obama had received the same margin across the state as he got in the areas where votes were counted manually, he would have won.
To some activists, this suggests fraud; the thinking is that Hillary Clinton's margin in machine-count areas is the product of hacking, while Obama's hand-count win represents the true result.
Thankfully, few activists are saying that what they've seen proves fraud -- they're being far more cautious, asking only that someone should look into this phenomenon.
snip
That's because everyone understands that there is a reasonable reason for why Obama would win the hand-count areas while Clinton would win the machine-count areas: Those places simply vote differently.
snip
Indeed, there's plenty of evidence showing that Obama did well in hand-count areas because those places were Obama strongholds. Consult the second table on this page, the one that shows hand-count vs. machine-count results in counties with fewer than 750 votes.
There, you see Obama got a blowout in hand-count areas -- 39.59 percent to Clinton's 33.64 percent. Clinton did better than Obama in machine-count places, but her margin is smaller than in other places in the state: just 37.37 percent to Obama's 35.04 percent.
Even more interesting is the third table on this page, which shows how the candidates did in places with more than 1,500 votes. Here, Clinton, not Obama, did better in hand-count areas -- a lot better, 44.17 percent to Obama's 31.61 percent. Meanwhile, in similarly large counties where machines counted the vote, Clinton's margin was smaller -- 40.28 percent to Obama's 35.96 percent.
Let me say that again: In large areas, Clinton did better in places where votes were counted by hand than where votes were counted by machine. Does that mean that it was Clinton who was robbed, in these places, by voting machines?

http://machinist.salon.com/feature/2008/01/11/new_hampshire_vote/index.html

thanks Marta...I was having a meltdown. This is the season of vitriol, I think....election time. (I wonder why 4 years was the chosen length of time determined for presidencies/governors, etc.) Somehow or other I want civility and some balanced reporting. Everyone has a right to an opinion....I just need to speak up more for my need for balance. I got outraged when I went to TPM (Josh Marshall's page) and saw how a legion of angry Obama supporters (or trolls, who knows) launched personal attacks against one of his writers, Greg Sargent...in fact, nasty even when what he was posting was innocuous. Not to mention, comments that were paranoid, racist, nasty and very undocumented to boot. Interpretations by idiots....why, you might say, am I surprised? Well I was....I sure don't want to see devolution like this during these times at a place I really like; not that my saying so makes this true here. I seem to be in a warning mood....my psyche is overactive. Bells ringing all over the place...

By the time I'd looked at all Josh's blog pages and looked at comments, I was appalled. Even, I think, FireDogLake has had to close down comments pages because of this! I guess they are being trolled big time.

http://www.cqpolitics.com/wmspage.cfm?parm1=28

maps of the country and projection of voting....good reference points.

Just visited talkingpointsmemo.com myself, JudiGem, and this is what was at the top:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/063499.php

I can't believe that Dems (Hillary backers) are suing Dems (Obama backers) in NV. Unbelievable. What is wrong with everybody? I know people get excited about their candidate, but is that any excuse to start acting like junkyard dogs? Sheesh.

Hey JudiG., with Saturn Rx squaring Gemini actually making my Sun ouch ouch ouch, it just got through messing with everything that I have in Taurus/Scorpio. So take heart good friend and don't let the season get to you. We try really really hard here to shutdown personal attacks, there is enough of it elsewhere and we hate it when folks go away wounded.

None of us know it all, everyone's astrological view has merit.

Back to baking my lemon meringue pie. I'm pretending I'm tame and domesticated today :)

So is Karl Rove writing for Hillary? That's what some posters seem to be suggesting. I thought he was scouting for a protege, but looks like he already found himself one. Well, nothing would surprise me. Maybe that's why he up and left the Bush administration so early. And Bill and Bush were cosying up when he was sending his father and Bill Clinton on all those jaunts on Air Force One. Hmmmmm........ anyone has any thoughts on this?

Hey Shy, NV is not to be trifled with. Hillary's giving it to Edwards and Obama with that stunt.

I believe John Edwards won South Carolina's 2004 primary, I'm hedging a bet that he might just repeat that win again. The MSM all out attack on Edwards, omitting any discussion of him could backfire as well.

Tom Donohue was doing all that hate spewing on the new moon v/c, boomerang. Oh and that CEO walking away with 88 million golden parachute while millions lost their homes, wonder if he has Blackwater personal security these days?

btw my pie is perfect, yippee! yummo.

Ron Paul seems to be the candidate of choice in my neighborhood....signs up all over the place.

OK, Miz Morgana, I must ask you to please pass me a piece of that pie. It sounds so yummy and just right for the moment that I can't resist asking. Thnx!

OK, this really is outrageous.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/11/dlc-leaders-cut-edwards-out/?ex=1200718800&en=a6496113633697f3&ei=5070&emc=eta1

D.L.C. Leaders Cut Edwards Out

snip

And then Al From, the D.L.C. founder, said he was “very happy about the two candidates” Americans are considering.

Only two candidates?

Our ears perked up as we listened on.

“This is a really hard choice, really, for Democratic voters because they like both candidates,” said Mr. From. “For me, I don’t see that going to be a problem. I think in the end, Senator Obama’s appeal that he’s made very firmly and directly to independent voters, and Senator Clinton’s appeal to the forgotten middle class are going to add up to a very smashing Democratic majority in the fall.”

“This is not uncommon in primaries to see this kind of passionate support for one’s candidate,” added Harold Ford Jr., the D.L.C. chairman and a former Tennessee congressman.

Well, O.K. But what about John Edwards? He beat Mrs. Clinton in Iowa, as one reporter pointed out, but Mr. From still doesn’t think Mr. Edwards is viable.

More at the link…

...........

That pie sounds mighty good.......

There was Sen. Barack Obama the other night, surrounded by his legions of young supporters, proclaiming the Iowa primary a "defining moment in history."
Maybe I'm getting old, or have watched too many silver-tongued politicians promise heaven on Earth only to shatter our hopes, but count me a doubter of the Obama revolution.
Anyone who delves past his soaring speeches and mesmerizing gaze and follows the money trail will find plenty to question.
The Democratic candidate of "change," for example, has raised nearly $100 million in campaign contributions, nearly as much as the Hillary Clinton money machine. Three of his four largest group of bankrollers are executives of Wall Street giants Goldman Sachs, Lehman Brothers and JPMorgan Chase.
What kind of change is that?

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2008/01/11/2008-01-11_i_smell_barack_obama_baloney.html

W! T! F!!!! Is that official? Time to head for DC and Tar & feather Al Fromm, & Harold Ford. ( He wasn't even elected last election! in his own home turf.)
Hillary appeals to the forgotten middle class??
We have a DEm County meeting today, to practice for the caucus. I will have to make a few calls about that, Not wasting "MY beautiful" mind on going................
Meanwhile with moon in 22 cap, () conjunct N mars)I awoke, with some very earthy creative ideas for my website!

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/13/opinion/13rich.html?_r=1&oref=slogin&ref=opinion&pagewanted=print

January 13, 2008

Op-Ed Columnist

Haven’t We Heard This Voice Before?

By FRANK RICH
SHE had me at “Well, that hurts my feelings.”

One cliché about Hillary Clinton is true. For whatever reason — and it’s no crime — the spontaneous, outgoing person who impresses those who meet her offstage often evaporates when she steps into the public spotlight. But in the crucial debate before the New Hampshire primary, the private Clinton popped out for the first time in the 2008 campaign. She parried a male inquisitor’s questioning of her likability by being, of all things, likable.

Not only did Mrs. Clinton betray some (but not too many) hurt feelings with genuine humor, she upped the ante by flattering Barack Obama as “very likable.” Which prompted the Illinois senator to match Mrs. Clinton’s most human moment to date with the most inhuman of his own. To use family-newspaper language, he behaved like a jerk — or, to be more precise, like Rick Lazio, the now-forgotten adversary who cleared Mrs. Clinton’s path to the Senate by boorishly waving a paper in her face during a 2000 debate.

http://brainsandeggs.blogspot.com/2008/01/john-edwards-and-people-he-scares.html

'nuff said. I refuse to have two candidates "selected" by the DLC, the MSN (and the RNC, let's not kid ourselves). This makes me even more determined to go with Edwards if Kucinich is not going to make it!

Lemon Meringue pie all around, lactose free :)

The more the DLC, MSM marginalize John Edwards the more solidified is my vote. Time to show MSM they're full of it.

Good morning all! Lemon Meringue pie, Lemonade ade, go ahead make our day we will take the lemons you give us and make them into something else!

Native American fry bread originates from when the tribes were forced onto reservations and for food rations they were given lard, flour, salt and water. Fry bread, every time I make it I remember.

If this weren't so true, it would be Hillarious. It's that Scorpio stellium that she's packing, and don't forget that famous Scorpio sting!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-lutin/hillarys-horoscope-her-_b_80790.html

oh my gosh, he likened a scorpio to a cockroach, Crystal thanks for that link! Now I'll go back and finish reading the astrology of it.

Whoever it is, they'd better have the leadership to cause the right things to be done about this. Now.

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.greendaily.com/media/2007/12/polar-bears-threatened-600.jpg

Easier said than done PatC. I believe the greatest contributor to global warming is airplane emissions, then those of factories, then car exhaust fumes, and believe it or not, air conditioners. When I lived in NYC, and would be walking down Broadway on Manhattan's Westside in the summer, the heat emanating from the air conditiong exhaust made the avenue a furnace, because it's packed chock-a- block on either side with businesses, for miles. Add to this, all the appliances we use in our homes.
Will the airlines be willing to cut back on their flight schedules? Will people want to cut back on the amount of vehicles they have parked in their garages? Will they want to forgo the luxury of air conditioning? I doubt it.
Look at China - the pollution problem has reached crisis proportions there, because of how quickly they have moved to an industrialized economy, so now they are having the same problems as we are in the West, like factory emissions. And as the population becomes more prosperous, they are demanding more luxuries - they are ditching their bicycles for cars, they will be doing more air travelling in the future, and they want more household appliances. This is the price we pay for progress, prosperity, and yes gluttony(some want 3 of everything when they could make do with one). I think the solution to the problem will have to be how to make everything that we use more energy efficient, and less polluting to the environment. It remains a monumental task, and time is running out.

I agree Crystal. The technology has been available for years, but blocked. It will take a real leader with a large and dedicated following to remove the roadblocks. After that, the work isn't hard, just requires steadfastness and imagination.

I really loved the Lutin piece on Hillary!

As a Scorpio, I really appreciate the energy he talked about. When it comes to the peace and prosperity of the earth mother with all of her children, Plan Z will do in a pinch.

Just watched Edwards at a rally in FLorence SC.
DIM DUMB hypothyroid, audience didn't clap very enthusiastically...........as he laid out all the progressive moves I WANT to see. WHen he said he'd have all troops out in his first year only 2 clapped! Guess they're askirt! (scared).
They did come alive when he asked them to turn out for the primary. ( Doesn't garauntee they'll vote for HIM!)
How about lemon curd and lemon drops too.

The absentee ballots in California have come in the mail.

http://www.opednews.com/articles/genera_alan_mil_080104_eight_u_s__state_dep.htm

good read!