Astroworld

Good morning AW! I'm sitting in the grandstands, MSNBC section :), watching the action.

It would be great if NV and SC made the pundits wrong wrong wrong. Hope John Edwards makes a good showing.

Good morning Morgana and all. I was on my here to post this and saw the new post from Sally. I suppose this is still appropriate, in the long term.

http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Are_2008_elections_headed_for_another_0117.html

Amid troubling reports on election integrity, Dem introduces paper-ballot legislation

As new reports are emerging about vote-counting problems and potential conflicts of interest regarding handling of ballots, a Democratic congressman has introduced new legislation that would make it easier for states to audit their election results.

Rep. Rush Holt's bill was introduced the same day that Maryland voters learned the security of their electronic voting machines would be entrusted to a high-profile Republican operative, and as activists were documenting irregularities in last week's New Hampshire primary.

Brad Friedman, who has been following the New Hampshire primary vote recount reports his latest findings of problems being disovered with the Diebold machines:

More at the link...

Nice way to get the day going, Cap'n Sally. Let's hope the majority of voters are smarter than they were in 2004.

There's a cloud on Obama's horizon.
http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/749138,obama20web.article

wow, that's a nasty looking thunder bumper over Obama. Makes him smell like the others.

Romney has been declared the winner in Nevada. The Moon was conjunct his Uranus in the first house, we will see what SC brings to him.

Be sure to read the comments after article...

January 19, 2008

Bill Clinton says he witnessed voter suppression

Bill Clinton, speaking at a Vegas YMCA last night, made more charges against Obama and claimed to have, with Chelsea, personally witnessed voter suppression by the Culinary Workers:

There is this whole business of the new politics. Well I got a taste of the new politics today. We need a new politics where we all love each other. You’ve heard all that. There’s a radio ad up in the northern part of Nevada telling Republicans that they ought to just register as Democrats for a day so they can beat Hillary and go out and be Republicans next week and vote in the primary. Doesn’t sound like the new politics to me.

Today when my daughter and I were wandering through the hotel, and all these culinary workers were mobbing us telling us they didn’t care what the union told them to do, they were gonna caucus for Hillary.

There was a representative of the organization following along behind us going up to everybody who said that, saying 'if you’re not gonna vote for our guy were gonna give you a schedule tomorrow so you can’t be there.' So, is this the new politics? I haven’t seen anything like that in America in 35 years. So I will say it again – they think they're better than you.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0108/Bill_Clinton_claims_he_witnessed_voter_suppression.html

Here's to the guy who really got swept under the rug.

http://www.alternet.org/stories/74268/

Dennis Kucinich's Fight to Bring Credibility to the Democratic Party

In this interview, the resilient 2008 candidate attacks the "inside game between competing corporate interests" that dominates American politics.

............

I'm hoping and hoping for Edwards in South Carolina.

South Carolina has Edwards trailing Clinton by 30%. :-(

PatC., I'm not buying into the polls, not one bit. They are way slanted, some have so minimized JRE making the choice seem between the two stars, Hillary and Obama. Ever the optimist here.

Sally with only 1% of the NV Repug Caucus counted how can they declare Romney the winner?

Sally, SC will be interesting to see if Romney prevails or the evangelicals. Just now pulling up the charts got called into work this morning.

The SC Dem race on 1/26/8 might heat up between now and then. Should be interesting.

Obama's Sun conjuncts NV Neptune, they might seem him as a fulfiller of their dreams and hopes.

As much as I'd like to see JRE do well, I'm thinking Obama may have the edge despite Hillary's Scorpio.

Obama Supporters Cross the Line in Nevada

Barack Obama has generally been less nasty and more truthful than Hillary Clinton in the Democratic race, but this week his supporters in Nevada crossed the line.

The textile and hotel workers' union UNITE-HERE, which is supporting Obama, is ticked off that Clinton supporters filed a lawsuit to make it more difficult for its members to caucus tomorrow. (The lawsuit failed.) So it aired a Spanish-language radio ad in Nevada that is pretty unfair. Here's the translated text:

Hillary Clinton does not respect our people. Hillary Clinton supporters went to court to prevent working people to vote this Saturday — that is an embarrassment.
Hillary Clinton supporters want to prevent people from voting in their workplace on Saturday. This is unforgivable. Hillary Clinton is shameless. Hillary Clinton should not allow her friends to attack our people’s right to vote this Saturday. This is unforgivable; there’s no respect.
Sen. Obama is defending our right to vote. Sen. Obama wants our votes. He respects our votes, our community, and our people.
Sen. Obama's campaign slogan is "Si Se Puede" ("Yes We Can"). Vote for a president that respects us, and that respects our right to vote. Obama for president, "Si Se Puede."
It's pretty ridiculous to say that "Hillary Clinton does not respect our people." Clinton has long-standing ties to the Hispanic community, and has worked with it and for it for many years. She's been rewarded with the endorsements of many Hispanic leaders. Clinton may not play politics in the cleanest way sometimes, and she may not be as committed as other candidates to driving lobbyists and special interests out of Washington, and she may be a touch too hawkish on foreign policy—but her commitment to minority issues is unquestioned.

Leave a Comment »

Posted by Jonathan Stein on 01/18/08 at 8:57 AM |

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/064172.php

A Release out from the McCain campaign South Carolina State Director Buzz Jacobs ...

"We have received reports from Horry County that voters are being turned away from the polls, because electronic voting machines are not working and paper ballots are not available. Some voters say they are being instructed to return at a later time. We are disturbed by these reports and hope that this issue is resolved immediately. We encourage any voters who were turned away from the polls to return again to their polling place this afternoon to exercise their constitutional right to vote."

Buzzflash posted a link where you can follow the Democratic caucus results as they come in. Here it is

>http://www.nvdems08.com

Barbara

this was from Mother Jones, forgot to add...

Here is the site to read the GOP returns for Nevada--about 1/3 of the precincts have reported

>http://www.nvgopcaucus.com/results

Barbara

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/livecoverage/?referrer=email

Clinton and Romney Win in Nevada

en. Hillary Rodham Clinton beat Sen. Barack Obama in the Nevada Democratic caucuses today, while former Massachusetts governor Mitt Romney prevailed earlier in the Nevada Republican caucuses.

With nearly 70 percent of the vote counted, Clinton led with 51 percent to 45 percent for Obama (Ill.). Former senator John Edwards trailed far behind with five percent.

More at the link...

I know this is off topic but it's such good news I just wanted to let you all know about it.

http://www.floir.com/pressreleases/viewmediarelease.aspx?id=2858

FLORIDA INSURANCE COMMISSIONER SUSPENDS ALLSTATE INSURANCE CO.

This is an astrological Marvel in the face of Hillary Clinton. Her aspects are not the best right now and haven't been over this summer. Bill Clinton however has stellar aspects, Morgana suggested that people are not voting for Hillary, but for Bill Clinton. A return to the Clinton presidency and solidifying the instutition of nepotism in this country. Unless Hillary makes a huge mistake over the next three weeks that would knock her out of the race, I fear we will have either a GOP President in McCain or Romney or a Hillary and Bill Presidency once again. We should all be gnashing our teeth over this as money, jobs, educational opportunities even the government is kept in the hands of a dwindling few and that would be the English model of the Aristocracy, keep it all in the families.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/19/entrepreneurship/

Entrepreneurship
One thing that struck me about Obama’s apparent assertion that Reaganism represented a justified reaction against the excesses of liberalism.* Obama said that Reagan offered

a return to that sense of dynamism and entrepreneurship that had been missing

So here’s my question: did Reaganism bring a return to a sense of entrepreneurship? Not that I remember. I think Obama is confusing the 80s with the 90s, the Reagan expansion with the Clinton expansion.

The point is that the quintessential business figures of the 80s weren’t creative entrepreneurs. They were big-corporation executives (Lee Iacocca) and takeover artists (Michael Milken, Ivan Boesky). The gazillionaires who started in garages came later.

A less subjective measure of entrepreneurship and dynamism is productivity growth. And that didn’t take off in the Reagan years. Here’s multifactor productivity (a measure that tries to capture technological progress), from the Bureau of Labor Statistics: http://www.bls.gov/mfp/prodybar.htm

Pat C, do you really believe Hillary got 51% of NV's voters. 51% is Diebold's fav ratio.
I don't believe it for a minute that number is real.
However I do believe we're in so deep we need waders up to our eyeballs until we have genuine revolution with people taking chances and sacrificing themselves.

patb, I don't believe anything.

.......

http://tpmelectioncentral.com/2008/01/obama_campaign_we_might_have_won_nevada_caucus.php

Obama Campaign: We Won Nevada Caucus -- Based On Delegate Count

On a conference call with reporters just now, Obama top adviser David Plouffe made a surprising claim: He said Barack Obama actually won more federal nominating delegates out of the caucus, despite their six-point loss to Hillary. The Obama camp's final count: Obama 13 delegates, Hillary 12.

That flips around the totals that were reported, which were Hillary 13, and Obama 12.

The Obama camp's argument: The state Democratic Party set up rules for apportioning the federal delegates across the Congressional districts, and then further sub-divided the Second District into three portions. Hillary's support was concentrated in Clark County (the Las Vegas area), while Obama ran ahead of her in the rest of the state — meaning that he was able to prevail among the delegates given over to the rural areas.

Of course, it's unclear whether any of this matters, absent an official declaration from the Nevada Dem party, which we haven't seen yet. And it's also unclear whether a delegate victory, rather than the electoral outcome, will be seen as a win -- though in fairness, when Hillary was losing, Hillary advisers described this battle as a delegate fight.

More at the link....

NV-Pres (D)
Jan 19 Zogby
Clinton 45%, Obama 39% ...
SC-Pres (R)
Jan 19 Zogby
McCain 27%, Huckabee 26%, Romney 16% ...
SC-Pres (D)
Jan 18 ARG
Obama 45%, Clinton 39%, Edwards 10% ...
SC-Pres (R)
Jan 18 ARG
Huckabee 33%, McCain 26%, Thompson 21% ...
SC-Pres (D)
Jan 18 SurveyUSA
Obama 46%, Clinton 36%, Edwards 15% ...
SC-Pres (R)
Jan 18 SurveyUSA
McCain 31%, Huckabee 27%, Romney 17% ..

Paul Levy likened what is happening to us as a collective infection. It spreads and deepens.
Looks like HC is experiencing the personal benefits of this infection.

'Sokay, I've utterly lost faith in any of it.
If the election were held today I wouldn't vote at all. Which is exactly the catch-22 the fascists love. Yeah. I know better.

Oh yes. Read this one for CA's and Boxer's latest outrage by the EPA:

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/12/23/california-sues-over-epa-waiver/

From patb's link....Cheney's tactics...

"Invoking executive privilege, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency refused to provide lawmakers Friday with a full explanation of why it rejected California’s greenhouse gas regulations.

The EPA informed Sen. Barbara Boxer, D-Calif., that many of the documents she had requested contained internal deliberations or attorney-client communications that would not be shared with Congress.

“EPA is concerned about the chilling effect that would occur if agency employees believed their frank and honest opinions and analysis expressed as part of assessing California’s waiver request were to be disclosed in a broad setting,” EPA Associate Administrator Christopher Bliley wrote."

Posted over on Starlight News

http://www.democrats.com/robolies

Karl Rove has been bragging for weeks about his “72-hour program” to swing the elections, which predict a Democratic takeover of Congress.

Now we know what it is: a dirty trick campaign using robocalls.

The calls are made to Democrats and swing voters at all times of day or night to make them angry. And they pretend to be from the Democrat (“Hello, I’m calling with information about Lois Murphy”). If you hang up, they call back 7-8 times, and each time you hear the Democrat’s name, to get you angry at him or her. If you stay on, you get to hear a scathing attack on the Democrat.

Here is another…

http://bbsnews.net/article.php/20061106174213469

Repeated ‘robocalls’ Called Karl Rove Dirty Trick

Plame Investigation and Missing E-Mails Timeline

http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/01/19/plame-investigation-and-missing-emails-timeline/

Pat C, AARRRGH!

Can't wait to see the effect of mars and pluto going over the sun/venus and natal cardinal t-square involving the Flabby Gossamer-Haired One involving saturn and uranus beginning in Jan 09. We can be certain he can expect to be incinerated (spontaneous combustion? on the prongs of some pentacostal pitchfork? turning on a spit 'til golden brown as the sacrificial piggy? exploding guts raining down on a relieved populace?)

Mc Cain took South Carolina.

I try and maintain a positive outlook since Cap'n Sally suspects all this stuff will keep oozing out and oozing out, particularly in 2009 (if I remember correctly, and apologies if I didn't). When Bill Clinton took office he stopped those investigations into BCCI and Iran-Contra and, of course, all the "old hands" involved in those terrible messes resurfaced when BushCo came along and they've done terrible damage ever since. So long as the investigations don't just continue, but accelerate, I can cope (she said in a brave voice) with the rest of it. Nice to know, patb, that KKKKarl has some real challenging transits beginning in 2009. Makes me feel better that whoever is in charge as Prez will allow those investigations to go ahead. IhopeIhopeIhopeIhopeIhopeIhopeIhopeIhope.

Karl isn't the only one with challenging aspects in 2009, so does his old boss. It amounts to Pluto going into Capricorn and that's just the beginning of challenging for them. GWB goes into a Sadi Sati in 2009 that just continues to go from bad to worse, on top of that Pluto, Saturn, and Uranus ultimately in 2010 and 2011 squares his sun and all his Libra planets including his Moon (the focus of the Sadi Sati) The years leading up to 2012 won't be the best years of their lives that's for sure. My big concern is a McCain or Romney win because of the Hillary aspect, they will bring out every nasty thing they can get and Bill and Hill will help them along the way. If either McCain or Romney get the nod, that leaves them open to chose Jeb Bush as their Veep and then they need to watch their back or bingo another Bush in the WH. A friend of mine in Arizona says McCain and his wife are in terrible health.

Oy yoi yoi! What a frigging nightmare....except for the GWB part.

Uh oh.

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/notion?bid=15&pid=272526

Clinton's Anti-Union Allies

Robert Johnson's nasty comments about Barack Obama earlier this week caused a huge stir in the media. Johnson issued a less-than-convincing clarification and then apologized to Obama on Thursday.

Yet few of the stories on Johnson, the founder of Black Entertainment Television and a top surrogate for Clinton in South Carolina, noted his controversial standing in the African-American political community. Johnson has been one of President Bush's top black allies, lobbying for the repeal of the estate tax and the privatization of Social Security, as Jonathan Chait of The New Republic reported in a 2001 profile of Johnson.

Johnson also has a history of opposing unions that makes Clinton's allies in labor quite uncomfortable. Back in 1993, workers at BET voted to join the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers (IBEW) and the Writer's Guild. According to an article in the Washington Afro-American, a historically black newspaper, AFL-CIO organizer Ed Feigen alleged that "during and after the election, BET violated the workers rights by offering them raises and promising benefits if they didn't join the union in."

More at the link....

But then there are these people.

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=Unions+backing+Hillary&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/01/19/592606.aspx

After the Obama campaign pointed out it had won more pledged delegates than Clinton did -- which the AP and NBC News later backed up -- the Nevada Democratic Party issued this statement: "Just like in Iowa what was awarded today were delegates to the County Convention. No national convention delegates were awarded. The calculations of national convention delegates being circulated are based upon an assumption that delegate preferences will remain the same between now and April 2008."

The Clinton campaign then issued something similar, saying: "The Obama campaign is wrong. Delegates for the national convention will not be determined until April 19."

But hold on, folks. The Nevada Democratic Party just issued this clarification (emphasis is ours): "No national convention delegates were awarded. That said, if the delegate preferences remain unchanged between now and April 2008, the calculations of national convention delegates being circulated by the Associated Press are correct. We look forward to our county and state conventions where we will choose the delegates for the nominee that Nevadans support."
What does this mean? It looks like the Obama camp's math (as well as the AP's and NBC's) is correct.

Just think...

A year from today our new President will
take the Oath of Office. Sweet Jesus, let
it NOT be any of the leading contenders...
what a bloody shame that America has nothing better to offer the world than
McCain or Hillary. We are now a banana republic!

January 20, 2008

Op-Ed Columnist

Ronald Reagan Is Still Dead

By FRANK RICH
CONTEMPLATING the Clinton-Obama racial war, some Republicans were so excited you’d have thought Ronald Reagan had risen from the dead to slap around a welfare deadbeat.

Never mind that the G.O.P. is running on empty, with no ideas beyond the incessant repetition of Reagan’s name. A battle over race-and-gender identity politics among the Democrats, with its acrid scent from the 1960s, might be just the spark for a Republican comeback. (As long as the G.O.P.’s own identity politics, over religion, don’t flare up.)

Alas, these hopes faded on Tuesday night. First, the debating Democrats declared a truce, however fragile, in their racial brawl. Then Republicans in Michigan reconstituted their party’s election-year chaos by temporarily revivifying yet another candidate, Mitt Romney, who had been left for dead.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/20/opinion/20rich.html?_r=1&hp=&oref=slogin&pagewanted=print

Dick Cavett

January 18, 2008, 7:33 pm

A Potpourri of Pols

I can’t figure out what it is that keeps me watching the current star search for our next president.
It’s not all that compelling or entertaining. Or at any rate it certainly doesn’t rank anywhere near the three riveting television events of my lifetime: the Army-McCarthy hearings, Watergate and the O. J. Simpson trial. Things that, day after day, held you enthralled, afraid to look away for more than a moment for fear of missing the next bombshell.
And yet I dutifully watch Keith and Chris and Wolf and those Sunday morning talk shows Calvin Trillin has labeled “The Sabbath Gasbags.”

http://cavett.blogs.nytimes.com/

Oh my God, Clinton thinks we Senior citizens should be included in the stimulus package.
Rangel, is for helping non tax paying citizens as well!
Be still my heart!

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_rob_kall_080120_bio_politics_3b_nature.htm

Bio-Politics; Nature vs Globalism, Conservatism and Libertarianism

snip

The laws of nature could be seen as "god-given." It seems to me that bible-toting evangelicals might look to the laws of life as a source of teachings, and that they would reject theories and political approaches that fly in the face and contradict nature's laws.

Another law of life is that in an ecosystem predators and prey must maintain a balance. When a predator ravages a land so that most of the prey are gone, the predators will die off. Or if one bio-element of the ecosystem uses up an extreme amount of resources, the ecosystem will adapt, with parts dying, or with changes in which life forms live, which die and which thrive. Consider the transplantation of the Kudzu plant in the southern US, where forests have been replaced by the invasive vines.

The same is true when you drain resources from a nation. Take enough and pull them out of the country, throw them away on weapons and maintaining troops in a foreign nation and you starve the homeland, you fail to maintain the infrastructure, fail to nurture healthy growth. Things begin to fall apart. Weeds begin to take root where healthy maintenance of lanscaping had been the norm. Rare, exotic but useless flora begin to bloom-- stinkweed, fungi, poison ivy, thorny briars. A metaphor?

America is in trouble. We need leaders who can cross disciplines and think about our nation and our world in ways that make sense in terms of the laws of nature. After all, there are some laws that cannot be legislated.

More at the link....

This could become very, very interesting if delaHunt does follow through on corporations' funding of right-wing violence in Colombia:
http://narcosphere.narconews.com/story/2008/1/19/203538/370

Take a look at these two articles, one old, one new. These are deep changes that we didn't imagine eight years ago and that will be a challenge for the next President.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/06/AR2007070601993.html?nav=rss_print/outlook

Who Runs the CIA? Outsiders for Hire.

Red alert: Our national security is being outsourced.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article3216737.ece

FBI denies file exposing nuclear secrets theft

The FBI has been accused of covering up a file detailing government dealings with a network stealing nuclear secrets

Dennis Kucinich's Fight to Bring Credibility to the Democratic Party

By Chris Hedges, Philadelphia Inquirer. Posted January 19, 2008.

Hedges: Have we evolved into a corporate state?

Kucinich: I Look at it as the political equivalent of genetic engineering. That we've taken the gene of corporate America and shot it into both political parties. So they both now are growing with that essence within. So what does that mean? It means oil runs our politics. Corrupt Wall Street interests run our politics. Insurance companies run our politics. Arms manufacturers run our politics. And the public interest is being strangled. Fulfilling the practical aspirations of people should be our mission. How do we measure up to providing people with jobs? It was a Democratic president that made it possible for NAFTA to be passed, causing millions of good-paying manufacturing jobs that help support the middle class. . . .

NAFTA, GAT, the WTO, China Trade, and every other trade agreement that's passed in Congress has been passed with the help of either the leadership of or with the help of the Democratic Party, knowing that each and every one of those agreements was devoid of protections for workers, knowing that if you don't have workers' rights put into a trade agreement then workers here in the United States are going to see their own bargaining position undermined because corporations can move jobs out of the country to places where workers don't have any rights. They don't have the right to organize, the right to collective bargaining, the right to strike. So what I see is that the Democratic Party abandoned working people, and paradoxically they're the ones who hoist the flag of workers every two and four............................
http://www.alternet.org/story/74268

Brilliant Mind!

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0801/S00152.htm

Forced Loyalty Oath Locks Out Kucinich

From Glen Greenwald:

Today we honor Dr. King's birthday. We all know him because of his historic impact on civil rights, but many don't realize that later in life he fought just as passionately for the rights of workers and against the entrenched institutions of injustice.

"Equality means dignity. And dignity demands a job and a paycheck that lasts through the week."

The War on Greed is exactly this kind of fight. The livelihoods of families have been directly attacked by the actions of buyout billionaires like Henry Kravis putting Wall Street's special interests ahead of his 800,000 employees... and pocketing $51,000 an hour in the process.

http://warongreed.org/dreams.php?utm_source=rgemail

War on Greed

Well, the results of the Nevada caucuses turned out exactly as I expected, except that I didn't expect Edwards to run such a distant 3rd.

And actually, it was Bill Clinton who won, not Hillary. I watched them both campaign, and it was Bill whom the voters responded to. He is a natural born campaigner. He is outgoing, friendly, and warm, and when he hugs those people, it's genuine, and they can feel it. Hillary on the other hand, is stiff. Also, Bill Clinton was always strong on the economy, and that is what the #1 concern of voters is now. Apparently the Obama camp has failed to notice this.

Mc Cain doesn't look at all well, and he looks old and tired. Don't know how this will affect the Republicans if he is the nominee.

Did anyone notice that Suzanne Pleshette died? For those of you who remember her.

Matt Renner: Political Fight Gets Local in Nevada

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/012008Y.shtml

Truthout's Matt Renner reports from Nevada: "Saturday morning was caucus day across the state of Nevada. The heated debate between top Democratic contenders for the party's nomination became verbal brawls between neighbors. After a week of rancorous and passionate campaigning, Las Vegas residents entered a small community center on the outskirts of the city with a visible enthusiasm for the democratic process. Their state's primary contest was, for the first time, actually going to matter in choosing a Democratic candidate for president."

Hi Everyone, have been lurking alot lately mainly because I have been reading the articles so late that I've just been trying to stay cought up. Sally could you add some explanation to the Sadi Sati and the Aspect of a Broken Heart? How can you tell if you have or have had this in your chart?

qop, Kucinich in his person is our stolen birthright. Our pith. Our truth. Our friend.
It is an illusion to think his exile is any different than ours. We are refugees in our own country about to band together because we must.

This monstrous bad dream that has thugged it's way in has no conscience. So we should respond however the hell we damn please. They will try to isolate us state by state and divide us.

I would like to ask Sen Kucinich what he believes we need to do to help one another and survive the coming onslaught. Surely he has thought ahead and it seems that dialogue has to begin now and be taken very very seriously at this point. We are an Occupied country by a foreign, unwelcome element. Will Hillary or Obama (our pre-packaged 'competitors') be infected just enough to provide a naturopathic (hair of the dog) way through that we could value (right now I doubt the wisdom) or are they simply "a darkening of the light" two-faced keepers of the lie to calm the frogs as the water begins to boil around them.

Let us begin by saddling up with good men like Kucinich and discussing a serious game plan. It would be good to know exactly how far his understanding of what we're in for goes and what we might do about it. Something tells me it's not the voting booth anymore. Not for a long time.

if you are still wondering about Hillary/Obama on MLK, please read Bill Moyers from last week, how he opened his show....and he should know, he was assistant to LBJ.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/01182008/profile4.html

Good for Kucinich....I hope he nails the Texas Democratic Paryty

from a new Salon article on NV - ground zero, the hotels:
Ray Wadsworth, a laid-off Bally's worker who is strongly supporting Obama, got into a shouting match with Nicky Nicolescu, a cocktail bar worker at Paris, still wearing a short skirt and heels from her shift, with a Hillary T-shirt on top. Wadsworth pointed to the six-year strike at Frontier, a now-closed hotel. "Bill Clinton never walked a picket line at Frontier. Hillary Clinton's never walked a picket line in her life." Nicolescu tried to settle him down. "All the candidates are good," she told him. She's supporting Clinton "because she's the woman for the job. And I loved when her husband was president." She also blamed the union for the infighting. "They have put a lot of pressure on us, but nobody tells me what to do."

This could be an anomalous precinct; we got reports that at Wynn, turnout is lower and seems to favor Obama. Because of allegations of intimidation by CWU leaders at Paris, the Clinton campaign has focused attention here. Chelsea Clinton campaigned here Friday; former President Clinton was here this morning. And AFSCME president Gerald McEntee is here ushering people to the Clinton side of the room. "I think she's gonna upset him here," he said with a smile. McEntee later got into a shouting match with Wadsworth, who came over to heckle the Clinton supporters, but as the count begins, he's smiling again.

Jennifer Blair, a bartender at Bally's, remained undecided. She said she was sad to see the union endorse a candidate, and even sadder to see union members trying to shout each other down with "Hillary" and "Obama" chants. "We're supposed to be a union, but now we're divided." Blair was standing in a group of two other undecided voters. In the final count Clinton outpolled Obama 211-98. Of five John Edwards supporters, two went with Obama. That's a delegate count of 42 for Hillary and 19 for Obama. More to come.

http://real-us.news.yahoo.com/s/ucas/20080120/cm_ucas/racialstereotypesaredeeplyembeddedinourculture

Yup my point exactly.

Nicolescu tried to settle him down. "All the candidates are good," she told him. She's supporting Clinton "because she's the woman for the job. And I loved when her husband was president."

The "And I loved when her husband was president."

People are voting for Bill via Hillary.

Well, perhaps she is voting for Hillary BECAUSE she's a woman?

UK Sunday Times Scoops US Media Again, Confirms FBI Cover-Up of Documents in Sibel Edmonds Nuke Secrets Case

Existence of FBI Case Number, Described in Anonymous Letter Obtained by The BRAD BLOG, Corroborated by Paper Letter Describes Senior State Dept.

Official Marc Grossman as Tipping off Turkish Embassy to Valerie Plame Wilson's 'Brewster Jennings' Counter-Proliferation Operation...

http://www.bradblog.com/?p=5582

Tee hee. You beat me this time, PatC.

Unbelievable how vast this vast right-wing conspiracy is, isn't it?

http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/174883/jay_rosen_mindlessness_in_the_media_campaign_2008

Jay Rosen, Mindlessness in the Media, Campaign 2008

Brilliant.

.......

That's a wow of an article isn't it shy?

shy, it's like a great octopus! No insult intended toward the gentle sea creature.

From Google news today...

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=Sibel+Edmonds&btnG=Search+News

Foreigners buy stakes in U.S. at record pace

INT HERALD TRIB JANUARY 21

For much of the world, the U.S. is now on sale at discount prices.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/01/20/business/foreign.php

Pat C, and to second your post, check this out

>http://www.gregpalast.com

about how in debt the USA really is.

Also Greg Palast's article has an interesting photo of King George festooned with gold necklaces gifted by the King of Saudi Arabia. In the Muslim world, manly men do not wear gold. Gold is worn only by women. Men wear silver and platinum. Is there a double meaning in the King of the Saudi's gift?

Barbara

http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2008/01/i-write-letters_17.html

Dear Barack Obama

...........

"...manly men do not wear gold. Gold is worn only by women. Men wear silver and platinum."

So damn humiliating.

Barbara, if you post some kind of e-mail address that will work at least temporarily for you, I will get a note to you.

Mourning in America: The Reagan Years Were Enough to Make You Cry

http://tinyurl.com/28tub3

Hi, PatC,

See if this does it.

Barbara

Now I'm going to have to add Shakespearssister to my favorite blog bookmarks.

Barbara

Morgana, your comment about people voting for Bill and not Hillary struck home for me. I have a friend, very savvy, a feminist, intelligent and a democrat. She said the other day that she didn't really like Hillary but was voting for her because she wanted to see Bill back in the White House and figured that was the only way to get him there. I was stunned and I do think you are right, people are really voting for Bill Clinton and his chart shows wins for him but not for her. Strange.

Arrrrrggghh! "You can't go home again!"
As a lifelong progressive liberal, I thought the ninties were hideous! Oppressively conservative and tasteless! Far worse than the 50's.
I know some people made money then and want to return there, but even Bill CLinon can't make that happen again!
What does his chart say BEYOND, "winning"?
Because watching him recently I felt "intuitively";
that he has alzheimers...............
and unlike bionic Cheney, he isn't going to be with us long....................

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/21/opinion/21krugman.html?_r=1&th&emc=th&oref=slogin

Now progressives have been granted a second chance to argue that Reaganism is fundamentally wrong: once again, the vast majority of Americans think that the country is on the wrong track. But they won’t be able to make that argument if their political leaders, whatever they meant to convey, seem to be saying that Reagan had it ri

QOP, the kindest true thing said about the Reagan regime was that it was "an era of hard-hearted cheerfulness." But the unkindest remarks about the Reagan era are the truest.

Barbara

The Torch burning with HeartTruth for us simple incredulous humans is held high by the brave and loving Martin Luther King.
Who knew his "I Have A Dream" song would be for ALL of us regardless of race or creed at this time in our history. What a man! What a human being!

Obama is made of plywood and veneer in comparison. Reagan indeed. In 1980 I had a nightmare before he was nominated. Here it is:
A narrow dirt path with high cement walls (gray and bleak)running alongside. The tops of the walls had shards of broken glass embedded in them. Ronald & Nancy led a celebratory entourage along the path, right behind them an elephant with an american flag clutched in its' trunk, and a bunch of faceless others walking single file behind.
I awoke in a sweat.

Word to Obama: Choose someone like Dodd or Gore as VP, that will keep them from assassinating you. Because the last thing the power brokers want is a strong and honest president, which you will never be.

Martin Luther King speech, like fresh bread to nourish us on this day:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=iEMXaTktUfA

I took this ABC test to match you up with your best candidate.
1. Kucinich
2. Gravel
3. Obama! to my suprise! Last time I did this I don't think he had entered the race yet?? Not sure if it is the same or a different poll, but doesn't hurt to let them know how we are thinking......maybe.......................

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/page?id=3623346

qop, note the questions asked in these match quizes. Missing are the really important ones like:
Restore the constitution
Invest in education K thru college
Social Security structure
Housing
Homelessness
Patriot Act
Civil Liberties
Citizen Privacy
Habeaus Corpus
Torture
Rebuilding Iraq
Pre-emptive War
Returning businesses/rebuild homes for Iraqis
Medical care for wounded Iraqis
Wars for Resources
Closure of Guantanamo/Abu Grahib/all prisons
Reopen u.s. bases
Ban detention centers u.s. & elsewhere
BAN BLACKWATER
Prosecute War Crimes
Restore Checks & Balances
Impeachment
Fire House members for not protecting constitution.

The list goes on and on. What they DON'T say is EVERYTHING.

Ask ourselves which of the candidates have addressed ANY of the above issues listed. Hmmm?

For a good laugh in the midst of all this (not for the easily offended or if you're having lunch):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNv-oDbBZQU&feature=related

Funnier still!:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTfcAyYGg&feature=related

Reading patb's post earlier on this thread about "51% a favorite of Diebold" (ha!, good one!) gave me an idea.

Voting in Georgia is entirely (except for absentee ballots, which is how I vote) done by Diebold touchscreen machines with no paper trail. ("Paper trail? We don't need no stinkin' paper trail!" as they might have said in Treasure of Sierra Nevada).

Anyhow it occurred to me that if the GOP fat cats settle on a favorite nominee before Super Tuesday, he will for sure win in the Georgia GOP primary.

Barbara

Hey AW'ers,
There is a Democratic debate tonight in Myrtle Beach, SC, broadcast by CNN (they may have live streaming via the internet), 8PM EST, 5PM PST.

The Moon goes VOC at 8:56pm tonight an hour into the debate, with a VOC full moon tomorrow.

Is there any interest in live blogging it tonight? If so, we can start a new thread and chat while our candidates go at it.

Hey Morgana, the moon went voc this morning at 5:56am est, remains void for 23hrs 24mins (4:32am est 1/22).

Until they begin discussing real topics with substance this one here lost interest in this danse macabre.

Well Patb you are pretty well informed for someone who has lost interest in this danse macabre. The site I referenced had a voc at 8:56 pm AEST (Australian, doh!!!) haha, my ad. My 2008 astro calendar has not arrived. Ok well we will certainly miss your input. But doesn't sound like there is any interest on the blog about it so a recap later will be appropriate enough.

Well I'll be watching. Don't know how well informed astrologically I am ( I couldn't keep track of the day & date last week!)
It may macabre, but it is also unpredictable, I don't want to miss anything.

Qop, oh I'll be watching too. One hour to go!

I see where Ted Kennedy had to tell Bill to "cool it" when it came to his comments
about Obama.

Bill Clinton is a smuck, always has been.
He couldn't be loyal to anyone but himself. Republican lite!

A good reason to vote AGAINST Hillary is
that most of America don't want him in the White House again. Like I have said before "He is so 1990's". Get lost Willie.

January 21, 2008

Stocks Plunge Worldwide on Fears of a U.S. Recession

By MARK LANDLER and HEATHER TIMMONS

FRANKFURT — Fears that the United States is in a recession reverberated around the world on Monday, sending stock markets from Bombay to Frankfurt into a tailspin and puncturing the hopes of many investors that Europe and Asia will be able to sidestep an American downturn.

On a day when United States markets were closed in observance of Martin Luther King’s Birthday, the world’s eyes were trained nervously on the United States. Investors reacted with what many analysts described as panic to the multiplying signs of weakness in the American economy.

Shares of banks led the decline in many countries, underscoring that the subprime crisis continues to hobble the global financial system. On Monday, a big German state bank, WestLB, said it would report a loss of $1.4 billion in 2007 because of its exposure to deteriorating mortgage assets.

“There is indeed some panic,” said Thomas Mayer, the chief European economist at Deutsche Bank in London. “What we’re seeing, in Europe and Asia, is that the markets are pricing in a recession.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/21/business/22stox-web.html?_r=1&hp=&oref=slogin&pagewanted=print

More bad news re the markets...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7199552.stm

Morgana

I, for one, couldn't care less about a Democratic debate tonight, nor any other
night. I've heard enough already.
God alone knows how we are going to make it to November 4...I have already given up, and I really don't care who gets nominated. There really isn't a decent candidate in the whole bloody lot!
I REALLY don't care anymore...and will probably end up not voting. A POX on both
of their houses.

From the you-gotta-be-kidding-me dept., spoiler
alert! Yep, Nader!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080121/pl_nm/usa_politics_nader_dc_1

namaste and love y'all!
GT

Throw in Bloomberg and stir for 2 minutes! Like I said unpredictable!

Wow Obama is a gutsy bugger takes on Bill and Hill as one.

Hillary and Barak slug fest among the kumbaya moments.

omg Hillary played the Obama loves Republicans.

Mercury conjunct Neptune watch the distortions fly.

Kindergarten!!!!! PHOOOOEY!

Lucy & CHarlie Brown?

Oh good WOlf has earned this pain!

Oh yes indeedy he has lost control the debaters. I do like seeing their reactions, body language.

If looks could kill John would be outahere!

I'm a bit under the weather tonight, so I'm not chatty, but I wanted to say that this is a great debate. I think there should be more like this! Just excellent!

Sharon says......
All I wanted to say was that I am watching the debate – it’s actually the first debate I’ve watched – and not only are all 3 doing GREAT – they are all so strong & confident, including Edwards….but Hillary & Obama are actually slugging it out a great deal of the time, hitting below the belt, then the other putting up a good defense…it makes for very good entertainment.

Other than that, I don’t see a great deal of difference between the 3 of them.

George Carlin aside, and politics as usual aside, I think either of the 3 top Democrats would be good. I haven’t really watched Obama before – he is amazing and strong. But so are the other two.

There...I've signed in...let's see if I can post (first time since the new system).

Thanks, Pat, for posting my comments. Well, the candidates, especially JE, thinks McCain will be opposition nominee, but I don't think that's such a sure thing.

They are just talking on CNN about one pretty funny thing that happened near the end, when one of the newscasters quoted Toni Morrison as saying that Bill Clinton was the first Black president, something like blacker than black, and aksed Barak if he agreed, while Hillary smiled fondly at the thought. Barak gave a very respectful answer saying that it was a well earned title and that Clinton did do a lot, but that he would reserve his final comments until he saw Bill Clinton dance! It was a cute & funny moment.

You are so right Sharon about the three of them, they come across well and at least they don't seem to be insane like the GOP candidates. Please sign in so I can grandmother you into the site.

When Edwards did get in over the bickering of Obama and Hillary he was great. I keep wondering if Hillary and Obama will take each other out leaving only Edwards standing. I do think these later debates have been far more in depth and substantive than any others. Edwards has done a great job in "let's get beyond that you are a woman Hillary and you are Black Obama, I know that" Edwards has put these issues directly on the table and forced them to be addressed without anger and sensitivity. I've liked that. He has opened the door to Obama taking a joking shot at him about being a "white man" and being able to represent them.

We are and have been under the shadow of the upcoming Feb. 7th Solar Eclipse (partial) at 17 degrees Aquarius. This eclipse hits none of the Democratic candidates in their natal or progressed charts. It doesn't hit anything in America's chart or Wall Street or GWB administration, it seems to do nothing at a national level in this country. What the eclipse does hit is the August 1999 Leo Eclipse which was involved with a grand fixed cross and set the definition for all the horrific events beginning in 2000. The Sun and Moon on the 7th opposes the 1999 Sun and Moon, does that signal an end or a beginning to this century. Certainly this country has terrible financial problems and an eclipse highlighting them more than they are would be a problem. The opposition of Eclipse points from the 12th to the 6th house would potentially place jobs under even more stress and the last three months the papers have been full of "lay-off" news and I expect that to continue. The debate focusing on the economy is more than timely.

Focus groups said Edwards won and I agree, but they don't think he can win the GE, maybe and maybe not, things change.

patb, what Obama meant was that Reagan created a sea change, not that he approved of that change. After all, he was a community organizer who saw the hollowed out communities. BTW, Nafta helped hollow out those communities. I wonder what Bill thinks of that? I worked 20 years ago for a while at an old sporting goods factory that was still operating in the inner city. Now the factory is gone-either it went to China, Mexico, or out of business. Wonder what happened to the workers? Did they ever recover?

As for the excesses of the Sixties: people tend to forget about some of the violent groups that piggybacked off of the change, and the riots as well. True, most of the groups could have been riding on two buses for all of their membership, but their open advocacy of violent revolution scared a lot of people outright. Plus some of the shallow end of the left pool spent considerable time justifying their antisocial acts. Add 18% inflation, the gas crisis, and all of the rest, and I recall people were just tired. I think Reagan did tap into that quite a bit, even with those who disagreed with his social policies.

Congress was also Democratic, and talk radio was in its infancy, and I think people probably felt it was just an interlude before a better Democrat came along. The tragedy was that they didn't come along. We had Mondale and Dukakis, two of the most uninspiring candidates ever. Throw in the Democratic version of the culture wars (PMRC, anyone?), and its not surprising that Democrats lost the Presidency badly.

Now there is a chance to get a lot of Republican moderates and independents on board. They have seen that Reagan policies don't work, have never really bought into social conservatism. The younger crowd is far more integrated than those of us who were born in the late fifties and whose first moments in an integrated society wasn't until late grade school. These kids have grown up in a truly culturally diverse society from the beginning.

Obama can tap into both with his Midwestern values and his diverse culture in a way the other two can't.

Yeaa, you're in Sharon and grandmothered, you won't have to sign in again, just post to your hearts content. We are so happy to have you on.

From Steve Judd...

Thought For the Day

22 Jan 07.48

This year’s big transits are the Jupiter/Uranus sextile in April, repeating in November with the added stability of Saturn. Interesting how these transits align with the US presidential elections, suggesting that the winner will be the advocate of change in the future, as opposed to continuation of policy and the futile quest for perpetual growth. In this light, I look at Obama’s chart (4/8/61, Honolulu), and I ask whether he was born after 13.06 in which case his Moon is in Gemini, or before, in which case the Moon is in Taurus. Any of my American friends have any reliable data on him? And what a beautiful full Moon!

Thanks for the great posts!

Lynda Hill has a very interesting Sabian piece up on her blog.

http://www.sabiansymbols.typepad.com/

Epidemics, Lightning and Desertions: Things Sure are Interesting - January's Full Moon

I loved Edwards last night. That quote about forgetting race and gender was just what it is that makes him so appealing to me. He sounds like my life sounds abd yet he is so much brighter than most of us.
I also liked the way in which each individual had the space to clear up some damaging misperceptions while not giving up the competitive edge.
And.... the poor Repubs with not a new thought among them. although I agree with Bloomberg-infastructure, infastructure, infastructure. My father and grandfather accepted work on some of Roosevelts WPA work programs building bridges and roads that are still being used today.
OOOH!! the Lynda Hill peice kind of rattled me-the degree of my progessed sun at the 1st quarter square. Scared me for myself not too sure how it is playing out.

Outrageous, just outrageous, the lengths to which they will go--and get away with it.
http://news.independent.co.uk/sci_tech/article3359083.ece

Hang in there clymela. You'll be alright.

Here is an interesting article from September of 2002 about Russia and their experience of the looting of their free markets.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1571/is_32_18/ai_91210681/pg_2

Well, gave in and watched the cnn clips. Edwards statements were the only ones actually grounded in truth, always a relief to hear at least one person hit that spot. May Edwards "take off" and run. He's the only one I can vote for without throwing up. He's a genuine human being, which is everything.

We've a way to go yet. Never thought I'd say Hillary might have core expertise and pragmatism that could help in the coming crash.
Obama is just....empty.

If anyone's got the time (3 hrs) to watch this clip of Lyndon LaRouche he has lots to say about handling the economy that's more than worth the time. What he says about Bloomberg will shock you. Other ideas he has are quite a bit off-the-wall re Gore, Global Warming's causes (the Crab Nebula? HUH?) but if you can manage to separate the wheat from the chaff he has what seems the PERFECT solution for the economy:
http://larouchepac.com/

(it takes awhile for the download, and if you can't the transcript is there too).

Clymela, nobody I know ever crashed and burned at the FQ! Hey, it's a growth phase, AND you're overlooking the trines to mars & venus and progressed sextiles and so much more. It's just another full moon aspecting pretty well for you. Lynda is just wonderful, she said that degree can be the spread of real solutions that catch on. Like all things, it's a passing phase and not a natal one for you.

Heath Ledger just crashed and burned. He was found dead in a Manhattan apt. Breaking news ....

Ledger born April 4, 1979. died today sometime before found at 3:26 pm EST. Mars/Neptune? pills found strewen thruout the room.

I meant to say Mars/Pluto, but the pills distracted me.

Phil Gramm July 8, 1942, in Fort Benning, Georgia

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/

Can this be true?
According to Sam Stein:

At a recent meeting with the Wall Street Journal editorial board, Republican presidential candidate John McCain admitted he “doesn’t really understand economics” and then pointed to his adviser and former Senate colleague, Phil Gramm - whom he had brought with him to the meeting - as the expert he turns to on the subject, The Huffington Post has learned.

Oh boy.

About Phil Gramm, courtesy of the late, much mourned http://www.motherjones.com/commentary/power_plays/2002/03/mean.htmlhttp://www.motherjones.com/commentary/power_plays/2002/03/mean.html Molly Ivins:

http://www.motherjones.com/commentary/power_plays/2002/03/mean.html

When he ran for president in 1996 and finished fifth in Iowa, all the profiles written of him included the line “Even his friends don’t like him.” Self-righteous and strident, Gramm demonized his opponents and used bitter, polarizing rhetoric. During a Senate debate over Social Security, a member pointed out that the proposal under consideration would hurt 80-year-old retirees. “Most people don’t have the luxury of living to be 80 years old,” Gramm scoffed, “so it’s hard for me to feel sorry for them.” Well, there is that.

Judi, that's so sad. :-(

PatC, yes, another saturn return tragedy.

sad too, that McCain doesn't understand economics and of all the people in the world he could have chosen as an economic adviser, he chose PHIL GRAMM?? McCain is very tone deaf when it comes to people. And Gramm? don't imagine he'll make it to 80 either.

Judi, you have to wonder what world McCain lives in. It must be very tiny, with very thick walls.

..........

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/226/story/25163.html

Northwest looks to develop energy from volcanoes

WASHINGTON — Deep beneath the Cascades Mountains in the Northwest, where molten magma heats the Earth's crust and occasionally bursts through cracks and fractures in violent volcanic eruptions, lurks an energy source that scientists think could be tamed to help power the region.

Though there's been little exploration, and no deep test holes have been drilled, the geothermal potential of the Cascades — which run from Washington state south through Oregon into Northern California — is starting to attract a buzz. In the next 10 or 15 years, some predict, commercial-sized power plants could start generating electricity.

"As this area is predicted to contain vast geothermal resources, development plans for the Cascades are becoming an increasingly frequent topic of conversation," said a report late last year for the Department of Energy.

Behind Iceland, which gets more than 26 percent of its electricity from geothermal plants, the United States is a world leader in geothermal development, with plants producing more than 3,000 megawatts of electricity. California is No. 1, and resources in such other Western states as Nevada, Utah, Idaho and Oregon are being developed. Nevada has been dubbed the "Saudi Arabia of geothermal."
More at the link....

PatC, I do think you are on to something with McCain. I think he is locked and loaded like and earthquake fault, on everything which happened in that tiny room in Hanoi Hilton. Meaning....it is frozen, but at the same time ready to explode. Don't know how much work he's done on that stuff, and since his temper is notorious, I'd bet being part of the military would have prevented him from anything as unmanly as exploring the trauma. Too bad, too. Phil Gramm....eeewwwwhhhhh.

Morgana, have you got snow?

"It must be very tiny, with very thick walls."
And very loud speakers............. Every Other Senator you call has classical music playing like that on Cspan, when they are voting, ( and I've called most of them!)
John McCain's office has loud blaring military march music, like that which they play when His Royal Princeling enters some military academy to pose his latest speech.
(Identification?)
Morgana, snow? DO you have snow JudiGem?
We had a little but it warmed up & changed to rain. It was soooooo cold her last night I couldn't get my feet warm, even under a warm
( and rather hairy)cat.

This is great. Some of those obsessive-compulsive types (bless 'em!) went through who knows what volume of data and counted each and every lie about the Eye-rack attack. Wonderful thing to share:
http://www.rawstory.com/news/mochila/Study_False_statements_preceded_war_01222008.html

Heya JudiG,
About a mile above us has snow, and the summit. It's been a rain snow mix here, we're just below 1000 ft., wouldn't surprise me if we get some.
Geeze this has been a hard full moon, I got called in over the weekend and MLK holiday. It feels so Mercury rx. and it isn't! Course Saturn is making yet another square to my Sun and it's given me a migraine...could also be wood smoke (we have a wood stove for heating.) Then my pc locked up a bit ago (dog kicked the ether net connection out). My husband got my cables reconnected.
Snow, I'd like a dusting that's about it, enough to look pretty then go away. It's not supposed to snow here. Though we've gotten a bit of it over the last 10 years. The Weather Channel was saying that its possible to see snow at sea level in the San Francisco Bay area on Thur/Fri, that'll be something. Last time that happened was 1972 from what I've heard.
The financial meltdown of the US...it's very disconcerting when we've seen it coming for months. We have stood like a children on a beach, eyes transfixed on the tsunami wave approaching from the ocean. Will the band-aid Bernanke slapped on help? Since these guys have never had our best interest in mind, I doubt it. Anything the Chimp has his hands on will be doomed to failure. Banks are not loaning even to folks with good credit, and most folks are not going into hock to them from what I've read. Once burned twice shy? The consumer engine is grinding to a halt. I don't get how it is they didn't see it coming. No job, no money to spend. Also, my husband mentioned to me that most of Europe has been boycotting American goods since 2003, interesting that...has anyone heard about a boycott?

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/12325
Foreign boycotts over Iraq war a factor in U.S. economic downturn
Economic Policy
by Sherwood Ross | January 22, 2008 - 9:09am

QOP!! Thanks for the link.

Hi Morgana, Pat QoP, no, so far no snow here in San Bruno. But if it comes in the next two days, wouldn't be surprised. It is cold. Haven't seen it this cold in 20 years.

I saw the pics on the news from various places, alot of them from the Santa Cruz mts., and I thought about you. btw....that migraine may be the same thing I had for a week. It was actually sinus congestion, but it is going around, and it seemed borderline to a migraine. I also had an eye doc tell me on Wed night that I have the shadow of macrodegeneration in my right eye...so much fun. But it is VERY early, that's the good news. The bad news is I have no insurance to visit the eye specialist for another 5 months (Medicare). I am working on the lutein angle, which is why I accidently posted the marigold link instead of the KPFK link up there a bit. glad you liked it though, Pat QofP!

This is a little personal experience thing about the economy....so I don't know where I am in the tsunami. I've had more work and bigger jobs since Oct. I talked to my ex in NYC who is an employment specialist, and he had to work over the weekend because so many clients are calling and needing people. I thought it weird that it dovetailed with this market meltdown, and my ex said he hasn't had this much work since 9/11, which of course, pretty much destroyed NYC biz.

I've been looking at these eclipses, also. This one at 17 Aquarius conjuncts my S. Node in the 4th house exactly. I went back and looked at where the last lunar eclipse was, and it was at 28 Pisces, which is the cusp of my 6th house. I've been sick and 'drained' all of that time since then! Not to mention, the solar eclipse a year ago squared my sun/saturn, and I took on new tasks in art which I was confronted to do. I really felt all year like I was pushing the world in a child's wagon . I've had 4 flu/colds/coughs since Oct. That has never happened to me before.

But I am much stronger than I was a year ago in many ways.

I think this tsunami of financial melt down is also the result of that neptune/saturn opposition which finally just fractured. It is still about greed and more greed. It is Wall Street and Barbarians at the Gate of the 1980's having morphed into a new shape. With the same result.

I was looking for the name of a movie Russell Crowe got the academy award for (A Beautiful Mind) when I noticed that his birthday is April 7, 1964....15 years before Heath Ledger at april 4, 1979 . I had made a snide statement to a friend that Russell was a great Aussie actor who had NOT yet accidently killed himself. Yet. spooky. A little worriesome.