Astroworld

Thank you ever so much, Cap'n Sally, for this article. Just makes one shudder, don't all these events? Fascinating how the timing with the planets does so fit the events.

I just read about her passing a few minutes ago and come here and you have this article up!! You're a miracle worker.

Bhutto, I believe, was a courageous and fascinating woman living a very dangerous life and she knew it, but continued anyway. I would not be at all surprised at a revolution in that country.

Thanks Sally as always, you're the best.

Sally jeez. Isn't this really what we've come to expect? When was the last time we've had a decent hopeful piece of news since the 8-99 eclipse? Personally have coined the term Cycle of Corruption in describing this bitch-kitty of an eclipse series.

Sally, ready for eye-popping parallels between Aung San Suu Kyi 6-19-45 Rangoon Burma, and Bhutto. Both of these female leaders have nearly IDENTICAL chart patterns and features.

These two ladies were back in the news at the same time. Both had their positions stolen from them after about 9 years more or less.

NOW I'm going to check & see if it's possible to find the path of that eclipse of '99, plus the nodal axes of Bhutto (leo/aq) and Kyi (can/cap).

Outrageous developments: but again, when have they not been so for the past 9 years.

PatB you are so right about the rare eclipse fixed cross of 8/99, it's been constant change and painful growth since then.

The most interesting thing to me about Bhutto's assassination is her insistance that she would get rid of the Al Qaeda in Pakistan and its leaders. Musharraf never said that and in fact Bin Laden and the Al Qaeda have been safely hiding out in Pakistan since 9/11. The US has never said they would go into Pakistan and root them out, including Sec. Rice who has been there often. Nothing has happened to anyone who leaves them alone, but Bhutto says she will get rid of them and now she is dead.

Several journalists have hinted as much this morning but Josh Marshall says it best in this article. http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/004984.php

No country has dared (yet) to ask "what is going on?" This could easily help Musharraf in the January election and could be the occasion for postponing them. Gee, I wonder what's afoot and whose foot it might be.

Pat B, Bhutto's nodal axis is 3 degrees Aqu (NN and 3 Leo (SN) There is a big difference between what happened to Bhutto and Aung San Suu Kyi. She does not have progressed Sun conj. her natal Pluto and being aspected by another malific pattern (transiting Neptune opposition)When transiting Pluto opposed Aung San Suu Kyi's Sun (at 27 degrees Gemini)she indeed lost power and her bid to return to power, a horrific wounding for her (Sun sq Chiron) there weren't supporting aspects for her death, at least not at this time. Bhutto had a number of supporting death aspects, the two Pluto aspects indicate an absolute loss of power never to rise again.

Bhutto was pro democracy, I don't think leaders around the world are pro democracy right now, no matter what they say, their actions speak of something else.

Hi, Sally and All,

It's me, Barbara. I'm registered at TypeKey as Old Mayfly. So glad you are up again.

And don't mind registering if it keeps trolls out of this sanctuary garden.

Barbara

I'm just shocked too, but not really surprised. I always felt that being a female leader in an area of the world where they felt that women shouldn't be in politics, was always a balancing act of sorts.

Well, I'm back! Got a suprise gift of 403 and now can post from home!

This move to registration I suppose was inevitable, even though I hate barriers as such. Too many trolls spoil the broth.

You don't have to keep registering, I have "grandmothered" you in and unless there is a breakdown your registrations stand and you can post anytime without re-registrating

My goodness, Sally, i didn't expect this article so soon. And, you delineated what i have felt. I'm not nearly as well read about Bhutto as i need to be. It seems, however, that i could never quite come to terms with her need to return and wrest power back from Musharaf for "the people." If her aims were that altruistic, than certainly she was a saint for that part of the world is a master class in intrigue.

Glad to be back with everyone, I missed being connected with the world while I was offline.

Exactly what are death aspects, Sally? I've read about reading death in a chart, but I've noticed many astrologers have shied away from the subject. Perhaps too many self-fulfilling prophecies or psychological conflicts. It takes a great deal of maturity to read death properly, an d most astrologers aren't trained philosophically or psychologically in handling issues like this.

Since offline, I have designed my own chart blanks and in the process of doing an e-book as well. The time I also spent cleaning out my computer as well, and envying the flat-screen monitors that the library has and wishing I had one. I just envy the flat-screen monitor, not the Windows Vista or Word 2007 which I think is far inferior to my Windows 2000 in terms of utility and sober workability. Do you really have to upgrade for the sake of upgrading?

Sally, thanks for getting on the Bhutto assassination so quickly; I also believed when she went back 'home' a few months ago that she was setting herself up, whether intentionally or not, to be in the martyr brigade. I don't know, but perhaps that is what she came to do in the first place. We can only wait to see her legacy.

This morning my daughter called me with the news....I realized it really made me freaky angry....for where humanity is in its progression towards conciousness of a right path. And this ain't it, is it?

I will remember her and send her wishes for a quick passage; I can only hope she is in a better place. But then, a lot of us believe we all ready live in HELL!

Sally, did that node assessment before I was even awake (still not! Ha-har!) yeah, it's the opposite. Just flip 'em the other way. My bad.

Very sad about Ms. Bhutto. Let's meditate and pray for peace there.

I hope everyone else survived the holiday season and am I ever so GLAD to see my fave site back online.

Love y'all~
GT

Raw Story is carrying a headline that Bhutto said in an email in OCT that Musharraf should be held accountable for her death ....
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/In_October_email_Bhutto_said_her_1227.html

Sally one more thing. What I was discussing there were NOT the particular planets, but the aesthetic snapshot of both pictures. Pan back.
Look at the patterns between these two, dots w/in circles and yes, a big difference, yet little difference. Neither of these women are without that power drive either. That's how I do things before focusing on details.
So, again I ought to have explained more, certainly was an experience of looking at very similar beings whose attendant life details are of course, different.
This morning this is what jumped out, and when it jumps out I tend to trust that, as well as the finer points you so eloquently describe.

I found another story on how Bhutto's assassination will affect different candidates, and having just read that Joe Biden had written repeatedly to Musharraf to increase Bhutto's security, found this interesting:

Campaigns scramble to respond to Bhutto's death

The suicide bombing that claimed former Pakistani Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto has upended the US presidential campaigns just a week before voters in Iowa head out to caucus.

Sen. Joe Biden (D-DE), a second-tier Democratic candidate, also released a statement:

"This is a terrible day. My heart goes out to Benazir Bhutto's family, friends and followers. Like her father before her, Benazir Bhutto worked her whole life -- and gave her life -- to help Pakistan become a democratic, secular and modern Muslim country...It was a privilege to know her these many years and to call her a friend."

Biden will use Bhutto's death to stress his foreign policy credentials as he continues his push for an upset in Iowa's Jan. 3 caucus, according to the Journal's Washington Wire blog.

Before news broke about Bhutto, Biden's campaign announced a new ad to air in Iowa touting his 35 years of experience in global affairs.

"Biden’s supporters also frequently note that it was Biden — and not President Bush — who Musharraf and Bhutto sought out during the crisis earlier this year after Musharraf declared emergency rule," Susan Davis reports in Washington Wire.

Oddly, PatB, I did a reading this afternoon of a woman with similar aspects as Bhutto and filed away the challenges she would soon be facing herself.

I remember when Diana died, I had three clients who were born on the same day and same year but different places and different times and all three had been in accidents the day Diana was killed. I was stunned by that one.

Your "circles" sound so interesting and go straight to the heart of an intuitive astrologer.

This is the only site I wanted to receive info. on concerning this news. Sally, you're so awesome and I'm looking forward to the next piece. Sorry the site was down- this seems like a good step to take considering the last year or so of problems.

I hope you all have/had a blessed holiday.

Politics by Murder

Well politics by murder yet again, and course one of the few women to reach a position of PM in the world, much less the Arab world. I watched Bush make a speech on camera tonight re Bhutto's murder, his tiney close-set little weasal eyes looked red and rheumy on TV underneath a thatch of very thin hair. He looks daily more clueless and dis-connected than even Reagan did in his Alzheimer-ridden 2nd term. I hope Bush enjoys his mouthful of bitter fruit,it doesn't taste so good it seems. He wanted this job, he stole it from Gore, he did his usual unbeleivablely incompetant job-this time with no daddy to bail him out-the whole world watching while reality pulls his pants down to reveal his shortcomings in front of the entire world. Enjoy that cool breeze Georgie boy!

Meanwhile the Repugs jump on the band wagon to declare this yet another sign of terrorism and why they need to be elected. Of course they are ignoring the fact that this US adminstration is the one that has been propping Musharef up who in turn has created a safe haven for the Taliban/al-queda. And does any one on this planet not believe Musharef was behind it? It is a horrible sign of the times, this politics by murder.

Swamp

Hey Sally. The glitch is repaired. ;-)

Hi Sally
Thought I'd check out my access and add...

Re your comment;
"The people of the middle East and far East have been treated like that for centuries and I think they learned to treat each other as well as others the same way in order to survive."

Thanks for the above insight. It's answered a long standing question in my mind and experience of people from these regions.

Here's to a Happy, Healthy and Prosperous New Year

Today on "The Situation Room," Wolf Blitzer revealed an exclusive e-mail he received from Benazir Bhutto's US spokesman Mark Siegel in October. "This is a story she wanted me to tell the world on her behalf if she were killed," Blitzer said, before reading the e-mail.

In the e-mail, Bhutto wrote that, if anything were to happen to her, "I wld [sic] hold Musharaf [sic] responsible. I have been made to feel insecure by his minions, and there is no way what is happening in terms of stopping me from taking private cars or using tinted windows or giving jammers or four police mobiles to cover all sides cld [sic] happen without him."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/12/27/blitzer-exclusive-bhutto_n_78475.html

LOL Olbermann got the same email read it on air and he continued to point the finger at Musharaf despite Chris Dodd's defense of Mushi, better the bad guy ya know then one you don't according to Dodd, darn and I was thinking of voting for him. Still undecided.

This one is interesting Morgana.

http://www.motherjones.com/mojoblog/archives/2007/12/6684_interview_with.html

Interview with Former U.S. Intelligence Official on Bhutto Assassination

PatC., there are also several diaries on KOS where Bhutto is shown saying OBL is dead killed by some Sheik in November. Wonder why Jorge isn't tooting his horn?

Morgana, you mean something like truth??? Ain't going to happen, sadly.

I'll go take a look.

Hey PatC catching the rerun of Olbermann, he gives CNN credit for the Bhutto email.

Morgana, this is a reporter I trust. She's the real deal.

http://www.atlargely.com/

Dec. 28 (Bloomberg) -- Pakistan's credit rating may be lowered should violence and political turmoil escalate after the assassination of former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto, Standard & Poor's said.

Moody's Investors Service also has a negative outlook on Pakistan's credit rating. It ranks Pakistan's debt at B1, four levels below investment grade.

``Unless political stability is restored, the country's fiscal position, balance of payments and external balance of payments may be undermined,'' said Moody's credit analyst Thomas Byrne.

``The negative outlook underscores the degree of political uncertainty. Unless stability is restored, chances are that uncertainty will increase.''

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601080&sid=a6cpZhjxxaCg&refer=asia

And if you think it's bad now, what happens if Pakistan totally tanks, and there is no stability at all? America has invested billions-probably trillions in facilities in India and nearby nations. Things are already tense between the two nations-could a fanatic leader turn up the heat in order to curry favor with enough Pakastanis to get ultimate power? What if Bin Laden becomes an advisor?

Do giraffes vomit?

Well, Miz Morgana, if OBL is dead, Jorge&Co would have to come up with another bogey-man to keep us all in line, no? Somewhere I read OBL has already prepared another video to be released soon. Yep.

Great article by Juan Cole out this am. Will go find it and bring it back here.

Here's the Juan Cole article link. There's also a good one up right now at firedoglake.com

http://www.juancole.com/2007/12/mobs-rampage-through-pakistani-cities.html

To which meaning on this list does OBL refer?
http://www.acronymattic.com/results.aspx?q=OBL

Shy, great article which led naturally to this one by Juan Cole, "Does Bush Have A Plan B",
(wonder if he's humbled enough by his own stupidity and ineptitude to summon Biden~nah.):

http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2007/12/27/bhutto/

I suspect they quite exhausted all their "abilities" in devising Plan A, patb. Scariest of things is that they may have created a situation where the dogs of darkest hell will be unleashed on the world.

This guy says it much much better than I:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sherman-yellen/four-ways-to-deal-with-th_b_78561.html

I don't know that this means anything, although I've always wondered about it. Many of us here were born around the time of major changes in the Middle East. Both India and Pakistan were given their autonomy by the British colonists at the same time (one day difference) in 1947. Israel was created in 1948. The very borders of the Middle East countries were created by the British with no real thought. There are probably other 'coincidences'. I always felt there was some link between baby boomers and the countries created (re-incarnated) at the same time. And the older I get (I was born in 1948) the more I feel the link and the importance of it, although I don't understand it in a way that I can show any proof.

Be forewarned: This is a film taken just before, during and after the assassination.
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/html/world/20071227_BHUTTO_FEATURE/index.html#section1

lunaoscura, shy, maybe this bit from Eric Francis will tie up a few of those uneasy loose ends we're discussing. Hint: the Nuclear Axis.:

http://planetwavesweekly.com/dadatemp/286861683.html

Wow patb, I was just coming here to post that! Very interesting!

(always the afterthought)...
Musharraf has intimate ties with the nuclear axis, although not mentioned in the above article by EF, also one bummed-out pumpkin over the next year.

Just as timely, Musharraf is our charming poster child for the 8-11-99 eclipse (him, it born 8-11-1943).

WHY is anyone interested in power OVER people.
That's the problem.

Most disturbing, but excellent posts/links. There is a Sufi quote that goes something like: Be still, we're drunk and sitting on the edge of a cliff.

And so it is. . .
Too many are drunk on power
Too many are drunk on acquiring whatever it is they believe they need.
Too many are drunk on a desire to create an apocalyptic end to their so-called "enemies."
Too many are drunk on hatred.

I am re-minded of Fire the Grid. The last i visited this site was about two months ago. Nothing new had been posted though i'm not a member and do not access the discussions boards. However, i remember meditating during the event, streaming a consciousness of peaceful cooperation, an acknowledgement of my/our foibiles, but equally a forgiveness.

That streaming consciousness of cooperation now seems imperative.

Sally, the site looks great. Has anyone done a composite chart or a chart comparison of Bhutto and Musharaf? I wonder what it would reveal.

Has anyone had anger issues since Mars turned retrograde?

Ray Merriman's weekly post http://www.stariq.com/pagetemplate/T1.asp?pageid=8408 fits right into this discussion.

Interesting conversation last night with a former intelligence officer. He insists that if a nuclear exchange were to take place, the US would be involved. All of Pakistan's nuclear components -- including the sophisticated launch components -- are under US control. WOW!

http://salon.com/news/feature/2007/12/29/electability_democrats/

Which Democrat is a winner?

With the Iowa caucuses looming, victory-hungry Democrats want to know -- who is the most "electable"? Here's our best (totally wild) guess as to how each candidate might fare in November.

By Walter Shapiro

Hi Sally and All,

Glad to see you have taken this step as I think it may free up some time for you. Are all of the archives intact? Was anything lost besides the porn and gambling links? Is that sort of hacking or posting now blocked? Do you have increased costs to maintain the site now?

Here is a link to a site where a claim is made for birth data being received from Mrs. Bhutto herself. The time given (4:30 PM) does not work with my progressed lunar return for her but a time of 4:45 PM does.

http://www.journalofastrology.com/article.php?article_id=87

Here are dates of other occurrences in her life:

Father Hung - April 4, 1979
Jailed - March 8, 1981
Married - December 8, 1987
First Child (Son) Born - September 21, 1988
Election Victory - November 16, 1988
Sworn In - December 01, 1988
Daughter Born - January 25, 1990
Removed From Office - August 6, 1990
Sworn In (2nd) - October 18, 1993
Removed From Office Again - November 05, 1996
Assassination Attempt - October 19, 2007

Sally, your initial post in the archives is an interesting read in view of what has and is happening in this country since you made it.

Cindy Sheehan has said she may oppose Pelosi in the upcoming elections. Interesting to look at their natal and progressed charts with the transits for election day.

Nancy Pelosi, March 26, 1940, 8:27 PM, EST, Baltimore, Maryland

Cindy Sheehan, July 10, 1947, 1:40 PM, PST, Inglewood, CA

Bob

Nothing happens in a vacuum and like pebbles one action creates another action and on and on. As an example the US might not be taking order from Musharraf all these years if it weren't for the invasion of Iraq and they think they need him. How many pebbles and where is the first pebble? It was no doubt in the Reagan years and the Iran/Contra exchange. But we don't have to go back that far, we can go back to the most recent pebble and whoever started 9/11 the Moon resided at 28 degrees Gemini, less than one degree off a square to the Iraq war's Sun at 29 Pisces, on the day we first bombed Baghdad. 9/11 first took us to Afghanistan and their 28 Gemini Saturn, then to Iraq (see the beginning of the war's Sun above) We needed Pakistan to get to Afghanistan and hopefully Iran, we already had the Saudi Arabia doorway to get to Iraq. Whoops, I digress. The key is the 29 degree Mutable sign. I always felt that things would begin heating up badly over there when Pluto hit 28/29 degrees Sagittarius and squared the 29 degree Pisces Sun of the bombing of Baghdad and the start of the this war.

The multiple configurations in astrology such as fixed stars, quasars, black holes, progressions, solar returns and other aspects add a backdrop, but the degrees that will set things off and paint the truth of this most recent picture (beginning with 9/11) are 29 Mutable, 14 Cardinal and to a lesser extent 3 Cardinal (give or take a two degree orb on either side) There is a pattern to all this that goes back over 50 years, we (the people) are just pawns to the pattern and few will see that patten until history (if it's honest) is written.

Each event in our lives have this pebble effect. I heard Pat Buchannan say last night regarding the sub-prime banking/mortgage mess, "that it turns out the 'masters of wall street' are dumber than rocks and have taken this country and several other countries down the economic tube, but we let them walk away with hundreds of millions in their buy out packages." The key phrase here is "dumber than rocks." And they are, the politicians, bankers, you name it, they didn't and can't seemingly think where the pebbles they throw might go.

Pluto is at 28 degrees Sagittarius (a mutable sign) and lumbering toward 29 Sagittarius. For astrologers, have fun looking for the other "backdrops" to this degree, such as black holes, fixed stars, asteroids etc., not to mention the different aspects Pluto will form at 29 degree Sag.

Just this week the ex-President of Italy said that the US and the Mossad were responsible for 9/11 and by coincidence Pluto is at 29 Sag, Jupiter is less than a degree away from 3 degrees Capicorn (Cardinal) and Mercury is at 14 Capricorn and we have this bit of information, all the key degrees, relating to what was set in motion on 9/11 are being activated and we have Bhutto murdered (who said on public British airwaves in Nov. that Osama was dead) and one of the players in the world during 9/11 saying it was the CIA and Mossad.

Keep watching and listening, there will be much more to come this year. I said in 2005 that everything implemented by this administration in their first term will unravel during the second term and that is what's been happening these last three years, there is more to come.

Hi Bob, thanks a million for those dates, worth downloading. I appreciate your comments about the new site and I hope it will free up some time here. I have been trying to grab all the old commentators to get them on the "ok to post anytime" list and think I may have that done by the end of next week and then keep track of the new posters so we can add as we go along.

I cannot see Cindy Sheehan beating Pelosi in the particular district Pelosi serves but we can hold out hope. Pelosi has made some really stupid mistakes.

Anyway, so happy to see you are back Bob.

I made a typo in my post containing the birth information for Cindy Sheehan. The year should be 1957 NOT 1947.

Because of this I checked all of the dates listed pertaining to Mrs. Bhutto as well as the data for Mrs. Pelosi.

by the way Musharraf (08-11-1943 Delhi, India Noon time) is not going to have a good new year. Pressure and danger is around him all year long particularly the first six months, starting now. He needs to take great, great care.

Sally
re your recent comment "there will be much more to come this year" I'm really wondering just what/how this information becoming public exactly will play out...

...I think about someone like George Tenet having unbearable remorse over what was set in motion on his watch, now that Pakistan is starting to seriously spin out of control; and then deciding to "go public" with what he knows (unless he conveniently dies Ken Lay style at just the right moment before any press conference)...

I wanted to add something that made my blood run cold....John Negroponte visited Musharraf and Bhutto to 'talk to them' just before the assassination, as did Hamid Karzai....I read this somewhere, maybe Raw Story, or I might have heard it on Lehr News Hour....and anywhere Negroponte goes, so goes bad stuff.

BTW...Musharraf born just after the bombing (8-6-43) of Hiroshima. So he is part of the nuclear age.

Also, on the Lehr news hour, Judy Woodruff was interviewing a rather dour man who had been Benazir's father's minister in his cabinet. He said (but it was very difficult to understand with his accent) that Benazir's minister of finance from her era had been the man who created the Taliban!

WV wanted me to post this horoscope for all of you....as he is having difficulties getting registered. Time of death:
http://www.coasttocoastam.com/gen/page2362.html?theme=light

I got a nice 'gift' today...10 copies of my book on Hillary Clinton which I illustrated for Grosset & Dunlap. This is for young readers, and I did 10 illustrations for it. I was impressed with the quality of the reproductions in it. That was the greatest gift, good repro!

Looks like all those cell phones at the Bhutto event have paid off...clear pictures of a young many holding a gun pointed at Bhutto....so now Musharraf looking like a really guilty party trying to divert blame by saying she died not by a bullet to the neck, but by a lever in the sunroof in the car! I guess they didn't realize cell phones might out them in their lies.

Yes Judi, that's called the magical sunroof theory. Only thing missing is the grassy knoll.

Thank you Sally for that wonderful and really informative post, and to all the other great AWrs for their great posts.

Merriman's article on Star IQ is very interesting. If anyone hasn't seen it yet...

Pat, haven't seen it....can you post a link or send it?

Judi, here you go.

http://www.stariq.com/pagetemplate/T1.asp?pageid=8408

Comment
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pakistan's flawed and feudal princess
It's wrong for the West simply to mourn Benazir Bhutto as a martyred democrat, says this acclaimed south Asia expert. Her legacy is far murkier and more complex

William Dalrymple
Sunday December 30, 2007

Observer

One of Benazir Bhutto's more dubious legacies to Pakistan is the Prime Minister's house in the middle of Islamabad. The building is a giddy, pseudo-Mexican ranch house with white walls and a red tile roof. There is nothing remotely Islamic about the building which, as my minder said when I went there to interview the then Prime Minister Bhutto, was 'PM's own design'. Inside, it was the same story. Crystal chandeliers dangled sometimes two or three to a room; oils of sunflowers and tumbling kittens that would have looked at home on the Hyde Park railings hung below garishly gilt cornices.
The place felt as though it might be the weekend retreat of a particularly flamboyant Latin-American industrialist, but, in fact, it could have been anywhere. Had you been shown pictures of the place on one of those TV game-shows where you are taken around a house and then have to guess who lives there, you may have awarded this hacienda to virtually anyone except, perhaps, to the Prime Minister of an impoverished Islamic republic situated next door to Iran.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/print/0,,331910798-102273,00.html

I don't know Grizzly how it will play out but I do believe we will have a great deal of the truth of the first term before Jan. 20, 2008

Before Jan 20th, Cap'n Sally? Does that give us enough time to get all the popcorn popped? (Sorry, I know it's not funny.)

Garry is back and wv is back. Looking forward to more of "our folks" checking in again. Miss y'all!!

Sorry Shy, typo, don't get the popcorn yet, I meant Jan. 20, 2009. This is going to be a fairly dramatic year I think on all fronts. The fall (early) particularly will be a stunner. We will know the truth of this first term of office and it's all spilling out now.

Excuse the nitpicking, but about Musharraf's birth on 8/6/43--that was actually two years before Hiroshima was born.

I've been a reader here for years but have hardly ever posted. Thanks to all you regular posters, and to Sally and Morgana. I've enjoyed listening in on your conversation so much.

Shy, I MISSED YOU TOO! the popcorn, hiding under the bed and hey! do you drink red wine under there? Not sure it goes with popcorn, but i'll bring raw peanuts! And how many can you fit under there? All of us? Well dang, let's just have our own NY party! You know Sally is right on the money and we'll have alot to celebrate. . .OR not.

Did more research yesterday regarding Pakistan's nukes. You can be sure this is a story of intrigue ala CIA style. It seems Pakistan acquired most nuclear components from Saudi Arabia hmmmmmmmmmmm. (Who were also aiding Sadam in this regard with the blessings of the US.) After India's provacative nuke tests, Pakistan followed suit (during which time Bhutto was also calling for a retaliatory display of power). Clinton made a PUBLIC statement asking for Pakistan's restraint. Another hmmmmmmmmm. The news the public received was that Pakistan worked in haste to test detonate their own nuke. It would have been technologically impossible to counter India's act in such haste. Truth is, Pakistan's nuclear capabilities were under development for years. (A brief, and poor synopsis.)

This begs several questions and yes, Sally, let's go back fifty years or more. Just when was Pakistan set up as a "strategic partner?"
What players were involved? Is the CIA a renegade group? Or who ARE they working for? The pebble/seed dropped then -- without considering the consequences -- may bear some really ugly fruit this year. I'll definetly be hanging on to my panties.

And Judi. . .i've really been thinking about what you suggest about the nuclear age. The first thing that came to mind, was the many Cayce readings. He indicated that many of us were Atlantean, and were here to attempt to prevent that which occurred then --annihilation of the majority of human kind?

They Don't Blame al-Qa'ida. They Blame Musharraf

By Robert Fisk

Weird, isn't it, how swiftly the narrative is laid down for us. Benazir Bhutto, the courageous leader of the Pakistan People's Party, is assassinated in Rawalpindi - attached to the very capital of Islamabad wherein ex-General Pervez Musharraf lives - and we are told by George Bush that her murderers were "extremists" and "terrorists". Well, you can't dispute that.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18971.htm

===

Anglo-American Ambitions Behind the Assassination of Benazir Bhutto and the Destabilization of Pakistan

By Larry Chin

The Pakistani election, if it takes place at all, is a simpler two-way choice: pro-US Musharraf or pro-US Sharif.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18969.htm

===

You're Damn Right I'm Angry. Why Isn't Everybody?

By David Michael Green

What an unbelievable record of deceit, destruction, hypocrisy, incompetence, treason and greed. What a tragic tale of debt, lost wars, stolen elections, environmental crises, Constitution shredding, national shame and diminished security.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18974.htm

Sunday, 30 December 2007
Restoring Pure Islam

Restoring pure Islam is the goal not only of al Qaeda but of many devout Muslims and it is important to remember the experiment in Afghanistan to do just that, using the Taliban, was supported by the Pakistani intelligence service.

New Duranty: ISLAMABAD, Pakistan — The Qaeda network accused by Pakistan’s government of killing the opposition leader Benazir Bhutto is increasingly made up not of foreign fighters but of homegrown Pakistani militants bent on destabilizing the country, analysts and security officials here say.

In previous years, Pakistani militants directed their energies against American and NATO forces across the border in Afghanistan and avoided clashes with the Pakistani Army.

But this year they have very clearly expanded their ranks and turned to a direct confrontation with the Pakistani security forces while also aiming at political figures like Ms. Bhutto, the former prime minister who died when a suicide bomb exploded as she left a political rally on Thursday.

According to American officials in Washington, an already steady stream of threat reports spiked in recent months. Many concerned possible plots to kill prominent Pakistani leaders, including Ms. Bhutto, President Pervez Musharraf and Nawaz Sharif, another opposition leader.

“Al Qaeda right now seems to have turned its face toward Pakistan and attacks on the Pakistani government and Pakistani people,” Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates told reporters in Washington on Dec. 21.

The expansion of Pakistan’s own militants, with their fortified links to Al Qaeda, presents a deeply troubling development for the Bush administration and its efforts to stabilize this volatile nuclear-armed country.

It is also one that many in Pakistan have been loath to admit, but that Ms. Bhutto had begun to acknowledge in her many public statements about the greatest threat to her country being in religious extremism and terrorism...

http://www.newenglishreview.org/blog_display.cfm/blog_id/12086

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Last update - 12:17 30/12/2007
Democracy will have to wait
By Zvi Bar'el

Pakistan is tough on its leaders. Benazir Bhutto's father, who was prime minister, was executed by his successor, Gen. Zia ul-Haq, who made himself president. Zia himself died in a mysterious helicopter crash in 1988, and now Bhutto, America's choice for the country's next prime minister and a symbol of democracy, was eliminated by political or religious rivals.

Pakistan is also tough on its inhabitants. The country's laws are based on Islamic law. The press is free, but the boundaries of its independence are determined by the head of state. Its parliament is lively and active - until the leader decides to dissolve it. Pakistan is also not always welcoming toward its allies. The state supported the Taliban and is undergoing an accelerated process of Talibanization. In thousands of religious schools the students learn that democracy is an evil Western invention and that foreigners should be killed, or at the very least hated.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/939528.html

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Last update - 16:27 30/12/2007
Bhutto's assassination brings foreign policy back into focus
But any discussion on the Middle East - be it about Iran, Islamic fundamentalism, nuclear proliferation or American interests in the region - is a discussion that directly concerns Israel.

By Shmuel Rosner

If Mike Huckabee wins in Iowa, he'll need a good score in New Hampshire. If Hillary Clinton loses in Iowa, she'll have to win in New Hampshire. If Barack Obama wins in Iowa, he might be able to take out Clinton in New Hampshire.

But it all depends on John Edwards not winning in Iowa, thereby upping the ante in New Hampshire. If Mitt Romney survives in Iowa and wins in New Hampshire, he could once again claim to be the leading candidate.

If John McCain wins in New Hampshire, that would make him this year's comeback kid. If Rudy Giuliani is right, Iowa and New Hampshire won't be that important this year. The only thing that will matter will be Tsunami Tuesday: the big February 5 primary day. And if the tsunami is good for Giuliani, why can't it be good for Clinton?

So many scenarios, and all of them are still hypothetical possibilities. As we enter the first week of voting in Iowa, the number of experts who are bold enough to predict the results decreases as the number of candidates increases.

/hasen/objects/pages/PrintArticleEn.jhtml?itemNo=939800

Bhutto murder blamed on Pakistan agents

Pakistani policemen stand alert beside a poster of assassinated former premier Benazir Bhutto during a funeral ceremony in abstentia for Bhutto in Rawalpindi yesterday. Picture: Getty Images

Richard Elias and Jeremy Watson

FACTIONS within the Pakistan intelligence service might have been behind the assassination of the country's opposition leader Benazir Bhutto, sources within MI5 told Scotland on Sunday last night.
Pakistan continues to teeter on the brink following Bhutto's death on Thursday as she left a rally for an election in which she was expected to become prime minister. The government has tried to blame militant groups linked to the Taliban and al-Qaeda in Afghanistan, which saw Bhutto's rise to power as a threat.

But security sources in the UK say pro-Taliban factions in Pakistan's feared Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) agency may have been behind the attack on the charismatic politician, who returned to her homeland from exile only two months ago to fight the election.

Bhutto, 54, blamed rogue elements in the ISI for a suicide bombing that killed 140 people at a rally shortly after her return in October. There were reports last night that just weeks ago, she had sent UK Foreign Secretary David Miliband a private e-mail naming three senior members of government who, she said, wanted her dead.

http://news.scotsman.com/latestnews/Bhutto-murder-blamed-on-Pakistan.3628362.jp

Bhutto Murder Closes Anti-Terror War Cycle Bush Launched after 9/11

The assassination of Benazir Bhutto, Washington’s chosen linchpin-to-be in Islamabad, was an unmitigated disaster for America’s war on al Qaeda and its jihadist allies in the key Pakistan-Afghan arena. The 27/12 murder closed a cycle sent spinning by al Qaeda’s 9/11 assault on America in the early days of President George W. Bush’s first term. It has left him clutching at thin air.

This single act of violence hit the West as US-led NATO forces suffer one setback after another in Afghanistan and Taliban and a Qaeda are in control of more than 75 percent of the country. It has done more harm than all the evil wrought against US forces by al Qaeda’s ace commander in Iraq, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi in the two years before he was slain.

Al Qaeda left its fingerprints – but typically no trace of the perpetrators. To this day, the master plotters who launched 19 suicide killers against America on Sept. 19, have not been caught, any more than those who engineered the 2004 Madrid rail bombers or the 2005 London transport attacks. The string-pullers of the Bhutto assassination may never come to light.

For now, Western counter-terror agencies are on tenterhooks for a Osama bin Laden message promised in the next 24-48 hours, in which al Qaeda promises he will divulge its steps for salvaging “Iraq’s Muslim Caliphate,” an oblique reference to US military gains.

Bin Laden is expected to make some reference to Pakistan as well, since al Qaeda’s strategists do not see their jihad in terms of separate fronts, but as a single interlinked arena stretching across several regions.

Furthermore, they try never to gamble on a chancy target. Their spadework is lengthy and thorough, consisting of long surveillance to seek out chinks in Western armor, the exploitation of its blunders, advance intelligence-gathering and a strike that leaves no tracks.

http://www.debka.com/article_print.php?aid=1325

http://www.opednews.com/flyer/news_20071230_1.html

Revolutionary Thoughts from 80 years ago still hold true for America and Progressives

I found a book, at the book auction I go to, written by the former president of Columbia University. Here's what he said that inspired me:

"The American Revolution.. had completed itself in the hearts and minds of men before it gained expression in overt and obvious acts. When the time came for these acts, they were done so easily that those who brought them about were themselves surprised. To become effective the American Revolution had to plunge into a war for independence, but the revolution itself was already over when that war began. Nicholas Murray Butler, President of Columbia University," October 13, 1924, in The Faith of A Liberal

I believe the same is true not just for Revolution, but also for ending the war, impeachment, taking back America from corporatists and turning America Blue and progressive. The work we're doing now, that we've been doing, does not always appear to bear immediate fruit. But inside, underneath, like roots growing before the sapling bursts from the soil, essential, powerful things are happening, developing, so, when the time is ripe and the force of our efforts emerges from the soil, we are ready and primed. That's a big part of what OpEdNews is about-- preparing the soil.

More at the link....

Pakistan Polls Postponed, Rioting Continues

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/123007Z.shtml

From Islamabad, Pakistan, The Times of India reports: “The election commission of Pakistan (ECP) has decided to postpone the January 8 polls in view of the situation in the country after the murder of former prime minister Benazir Bhutto and will announce new dates for national and provincial assembly elections on Monday, a senior official of the commission said,” while The New York Times’ Laura King reports: “President Pervez Musharraf on Saturday expressed determination to restore law and order after the country was racked by a third day of riots and looting that have killed dozens of people since the assassination of Benazir Bhutto.”

Call Off the War Dogs at the New York Times

Stop Meddling in Pakistan!

By JACOB G. HORNBERGER

I've got a better idea: the U.S. government should butt out of Pakistani affairs -- as well as the affairs of Iraq, Iran, Korea, Venezuela, Haiti, Cuba, and all the rest.

My gosh, what does it take for interventionists to finally realize that the solution to the messes that interventionism causes is not more interventionism but rather no more interventionism?

Does anyone need to remind the Times of the messes that U.S. interventionism has produced in the Middle East, especially in Iraq? Or how about U.S. interventionism in Pakistan itself? After all, it's not as though the U.S. government has not been involving itself heavily in the internal affairs of Pakistan. Don't forget that ever since 9/11 the Bush administration has been funneling millions of dollars in U.S. taxpayer money into the coffers of Pakistan's unelected dictator, Pervez Musharraf, and his military goons.

http://www.counterpunch.com/hornberger12292007.html

just testing the system

Hi, oops, Marcia, I did make a mistake on the year of Hiroshima....I was thinking that because I was born 2 months before Musharraf that I, too, was born in the nuke age.....but we were all war babies. I myself was born in Hawaii, where war didn't stop at the end....it just kept on, with the culture I grew up in. Yes, it was 1945, not 1943....but it sure was a non-stop type 5 years of war for Americans then, not to mention an additional amount of non stop war in the rest of the world as a whole (just think of what was happening in India then, with Gandhi). The whole world was in turmoil, making an astrological world study of those 14-15 years (lets say 1930-1945) worth a lifetime of work. thanks for the correction...

Karen, thanks for reminding us of the Cayce readings....I remember that now, the astro signature for the Atlantean reincarnates being a retrograde Neptune (which is about half the year!). How about it, does everyone here have that signature? I was born when Neptune was retrograding back from Libra into Virgo....29 deg. Virgo. It went stationary the day after I was born, but still, that always made sense to me. Cayce was one of my first interests....

Pat C....that paragraph from the President of Columbia U on the American Revolution is right on in my estimation....I do believe we must fight in spirit for what we see is the right path BEFORE we do anything in the real world. This also gives me more belief than ever in the belief that we are all connected in some way. In that time, all the right people came together to enable this gigantic leap of consciousness. Although it wasn't perfect, and required much tinkering....and some tinkering seems to have been done by those less enobled by those noble thoughts...leaving us to keep on truckin'....

Ah sweet mysteries of life.....