Lovely article Sally,
And doesn't it express perfectly the beginning of my day!
I opened the flyer for the Society of Children's Book Writers & Illustrators Conference, in NY, and even though I have a place in Manhatten to stay,the cost of the drive down and the conference fee are beyond my means!
Then I read the NYTimes, to find Milbridge ( my town)is a featured article!
http://tinyurl.com/2zra84
In sagging wood homes and aged trailers scattered across Washington County, many of Maine’s poorest and oldest shiver too much in the winter, eat far more biscuits and beans than meat and cannot afford the weekly bingo game at the V.F.W. hall.
(be sure to look at the multimedia, beautiful landscapes in it!)
Unlike my unassuming neighbors.........being from NJ,I am DEMANDING MORE! WHY are the SS incomes so low? WHY does the power company charge so much? WHY is the cost of heating oil so high?
AND in demanding MORE, I am receiving recognition & support at the highest levels in the state!
"expect opportunity to cross your path because we are off and running now." I hope I can keep up the pace!
QOP

PM Howard loses:
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/breaking-news/world/australasia/article3191923.ece

It is always the same; whenever I need an uplift I can find it here! Thank you Sally!

The last few years have been very strange, but I do feel there is now opportunity in the air. I have stopped being obsessed by politics but I continue to hope for a better day, which is coming! The pendulum always swings not only individually but nationally and worldly.

Wow, now i've never seen so many links in my entire (albiet limited) internet experience :)

Sally, this is incredible. Thank you for this. I'm always up for a party and intend to revel, yell, shout, laugh and dance until i'm 104 -- maybe more. I can't imagine being UNthankFULL. But, perhaps i look for those manifestations of joy, of the Love that shines in the darkest corners. It's always there. Always.

I hate Spam. I'm not even sure I like the meat anymore. Hopefully Sally will wake up and delete this. Whoever is doing this is wasting their time. Probably nobody here can even read the sites if they bother to click the links, let alone buy.

Now just waiting for my final grades.

At least it isn't porn!
Just want to say how happy I am for you Carol, that your doing school and so excited and challenged by it!
QOP

(sorry, couldn't post on the previous thread due to spam; also Dave Barry rules)

Carol et al, thanks! One thing that occurred to me was perhaps there is a greater cycle going on, as it certainly wasn't lost on me that the Declaration wasn't signed until Pluto was at 27' Cap. What I'm getting at ultimately is do empires often last more than one Pluto cycle, and perhaps whenever Pluto is in Leo there is little desire to limit authority but instead strengthen it. Correlation -> causation? Chicken or egg? But I guess I'm just some young kid who doesn't know any better or something, right? ;-) I knew I should have never disclosed my birth data... I fervently agree that 68 is not old (check out the chart and bio of Dick Lebeau - he "looks like he's 40" but just turned 70 and is still the defensive coordinator for the Pittsburgh Steelers; in my opinion it's the Sun/Neptune eclipse; seriously look at the guy, it's amazing!) , and I would like to add that ageism in either direction is right up there with sexism and racism. Re: Excel, no way in hell. I'm quite the open source advocate, but I guess I could use OpenOffice just to make pretty graphs and column outputs. It's so much easier for me to use shell commands as my day job is as a system engineer, it's astrolog that is the problem for rapidly assessing a group of astrologically-specific sets and I think the astrodatabank software is built for this kind of research, even if it's not open source (at least it's not a product of monopolizers whose operating system is responsible for most of the computer security problems on the planet)

My favorite founding father besides Jefferson had Pluto in Leo, Ben Franklin!

Non-sequitur: I use the Dec 25, 1066 chart for England, which makes it a Cap and in opposition to the Cancer Suns of its offspring, the USA and Canada. Also something I've always noticed, Canada's Sun in Cancer trines Jupiter while that of the USA squares Saturn. Reminds me of that scene in Michael Moore's "Bowling for Columbine" where Moore is trying to figure out why Windsor is such a nice place compared to its sister city across the river, Detroit, yet there's nothing really obvious that is different.

Oh yes, I am up and did erase not only this little bit of spam, but the spam our caller left on all the articles last night.

Carol, I am thrilled to hear about school and your plans you are going to do great, just great.

First thing I heard waking up this morning was John Howard went down in defeat, actually I heard he was sinking fast before I went to bed (at 1:00am, no spam then) John Howard: July 26, 1939 @ 2:21am at Earlwood, Australia. His birthtime is from a rectification chart by an Australian astrologer so I can't verify for sure. However his chart does show that he has been under stress for quite some time. I think he will continue to try to keep his hand in politics and make the new PM job more difficult but I don't think with success. I am not sure John Howard is all that upset about this loss.

Kevin Rudd (Sept. 21, 1957 noon Nambour, Australia) I don't have a time for Mr. Rudd and will need to take the noon time, if anyone can ascertain his time of birth please let me know.

Mr. Rudd has a Sun/Mars conjunction in late Virgo with the potential of being his own worst enemy and creating his own problems. His Mercury and Saturn square from Virgo to Sagittarius and transiting Saturn will impact that square this year and next, while transiting Pluto squares his Sun/Mars conjunction. Bad year ahead for Mr. Rudd I hope he has good advisors and that he will listen. Mr. Rudd is against this war but he is a conservative on social issues, in fact I've read that he is very conservative on social issues. Frankly Mr. Rudd has serious challanges ahead and I don't know if he is up to the task at this particular time of his life but I will sure as heck be watching with great interest. Good luck to Mr. Rudd.

Gilgamesh just shows that the "collective" drives the culture of a country. With the US progressed Mars retrograding back to the US Saturn and square that Sun, it makes me wonder if our frustrations and national depression won't increase, there will be a lot of national frustration with moving forward in that aspect and the square to the Sun would indicate shooting ourselves in the foot over and over, until we get it right.

The Roman Empire seems to be the exception to the one cycle rule, but then things were a bit more primitive.

Wiki on online spreadsheets:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_online_spreadsheets

Eventually we will all have to get out of our gated communities and create common blog and web space. Why isn't there a site where we could collect charts and have a cooperative ephemeris and such stuff?

You know what makes this different from a lot of astrological communities, though? The common sense humanity. I've browsed a few, and all they ever talk about are mechanics-it's as if they are afraid to talk about life itself? We live our charts, not vice versa!

I may have a slideshow up tonight!

But on the other hand, Sally, there has been a lot of unfinished work to be done here. Mars retrograde may allow us to finally turn inward and do that work and finish it so that when 2087 turns around, America can once again be a true force in the world.

Carol, sheesh! 2087, I'll be LONG gone ... and what, exactly, do we have to look forward to, I sometimes wonder. I'm feeling a bit low today, and your comment really struck a chord.

All I can say is that I am so happy at the result in my part of the world. The biggest creep in the history of Australia has met his political maker.

I don't know how he will continue to make his mark as it looks like he has lost his seat! Even better!!!

So will I, Marta, but maybe things will improve enough that we can see things are definitely getting better?

Sally,

Ed Hamlin predicted Kevin Rudd might win this election a year ago. He rectified Rudd's chart to 1:03 pm.

http://www.edtamplin.com/StopPress.html

Sorry, the name is Ed Tamplin, and please note that the article is an old one. The prediction of a possible Rudd win in 2007 is in the last two paragraphs.

Sally, what a nice, Realistic article! We've such a long way to go as a country, manipulated to the nines, from shopping to doublethink about who the top candidates are (whatever you do, ignore how you FEEL because you cannot have that no matter how straightforward and sane it is).
Gawd, have we got a ways to go.
Just in time for the holidays my paychecks decreased by a shameful 85% and show no sign of improving. Our (my) manager is abusive and cruel. Doublethink extends to my on-the-job experience as well! I won't bore or bring anyone down with the details, just bleepin' desperate!

One thing comes to mind for all:
The Japanese put their hand over their heart and say, "my mind is made up" when it comes to making decisions.

Here

Sally, what a nice, Realistic article! We've such a long way to go as a country, manipulated to the nines, from shopping to doublethink about who the top candidates are (whatever you do, ignore how you FEEL because you cannot have that no matter how straightforward and sane it is).
Gawd, have we got a ways to go.
Just in time for the holidays my paychecks decreased by a shameful 85% and show no sign of improving. Our (my) manager is abusive and cruel. Doublethink extends to my on-the-job experience as well! I won't bore or bring anyone down with the details, just bleepin' desperate!

One thing comes to mind for all:
The Japanese put their hand over their heart and say, "my mind is made up" when it comes to making decisions.

Here

(85% less means $2.00/hr for my time)

One thing we might look forward to with a Mars retrograde, like Germany, we could easily lose our lust for war. Germany's Mars went retro right before WWI and they wanted to be a world empire. They lost both wars they started and did not strength and begin to recover until after it went direct. After they lost WWII and was divided up they spent their time trying to rebuild their country instead of war, it took them until the direct phase began before they could even start seeing the light of day. Losing their "blood lust" was the best thing that happened to them. Now the neo-Nazi's are beginning to rise again and the German people are freaking out, as well they should.

Congratulations Jase to you and all the Aussies who voted for Rudd. I agree Howard was a mean piece of work, I just hope Rudd is better. He's absolutely better if he pulls his support from this war and starts working on the Global Warming issues. He does have a bit of a rough time ahead however over this next year, I was glad to hear that there was enough Labour to form a cabinet for him. I would love to see Merkle of Germany and Sarkozy replaced and even Brown of England. The world so badly needs a new breeze of innovation coming through all corners.

Please try to find the time to read this, including the "Comments" (particularly the ones between Marcy and "selise"). How's the astrology for this mess looking, anyway? Shiver.
http://thenexthurrah.typepad.com/the_next_hurrah/2007/11/the-saudis-have.html#more

Sharif (Dec. 25, 1949 taking a noon time birth in Lahore, Pakistan)

First of all the Saudis have a Sag ascendant and Saturn will soon square that ascendant making them take a hard line. They have a slew of planets including the Sun in Capricorn and a couple of important early degree Aquarian planets, they will absolutely be in a position next year to "drive the bus" and will be listened to. Sharif has an early degree Capricorn Sun oppose a Cancer Uranus, I think he will become the Prime Minister, fueled and supported by the Saudis. Musharraf has taken a hard line and feels supported in that by his ego (lots of Leo and Saturn just left Leo) and his history of successes (Saturn just conjunct his Chiron and is coming to a conjunction to his Mercury) With Musharraf's Virgo and Saudi's/Sharif Capricorn everyone wants a bigger piece of the pie and I think there will be comprimises to accomplish that task, but it will be uneasy comprimises. No trust in one another, too many broken promises and lies for there to be enough trust to accomplish a lot (Middle East politics are like that, in fact I think politics are like that)All, including Israel are duplicitous, everyone has Saturn contacts and will be taking a rigid line, but the Saudi's will prevail, they have Jupiter at their back helping them take the lead over this next year.

Sally, Russia too has a fairly fresh mars retro about '03 (don't recall exactly but it was recent)
Keep in mind the german's loss of lust for bloodshed happened after the deaths of approximately 15million people and the invasion of many of their neighboring countries! So wars deemed unsuccessful or 'go nowhere' historically have entailed a LOT of people dying beforehand and massive-scale re-building. Mars retro feeds on 'internal' distress of their own people.
Somehow I'm not so reassured by the u.s. mars retro since WE are viewed as the new cannon fodder for this gov't whom Pelosi and her marvelous 'new congress' have enabled to the nines. It is they that have left us unprotected and vulnerable to an insane administration. The coming horrors have their fingerprints, corruption and cowardice all over it.

A hulluva lot depends on how we handle the uranus/pluto square, because the clamps will also come down hard when saturn & mars OPPOSE uranus to stomp out rebellion. Much depends on that.
We are looking at a social experiment that we'd better not screw up, or the dye is cast against us for decades of oppression.

Thanks so much, Cap'n Sally for expanding on the Pak-Saudi-Iran-Iraq-US mess. Something was going on earlier--I think last summer--when Cheney visited Saudi Arabia, and nobody ever quite knew why. Very scary, for the Saudis are Sunni and Jr. has managed to turn Iraq from Sunni-friendly to strictly Shiite and Iran is Shiite. Surely that makes the Saudis unhappy. So, here goes the dollar--followed closely behind by the entire country? Again, shiver!

SHirley McLaine on Larry King live talking about a consciousness paradim & out of body experiences.
QOP

Right, shylurker. And the Sunnis who previously found the Iraq government friendly were the rational Sunnis. The only Sunnis who have benefited from Bush & Co's war for oil are the wacko Sunnis--Al Queda.

Just like the Muslims, Christian denominations have their rations branches and their wacko branches--a good example is the Presbyterians. (Any Presbyies here jump in.) One group runs leper hospitals and supports the U.S. Constitution. The other group--which also calls itself Presbyterian--works tirelessly to turn the US into a theocracy. They, of course, supported Bush.

2nd paragraph, 2nd line, that should be "rational branches"

I do so agree, Barbara. (And I knew exactly what you meant to type. I am so ham-handed I end up sometimes typing gibberish when, of course, the thought supposedly guiding the process was pure and brilliant. In contrast, yours was just a simple typo.)

The implications of that article! Wow!

Many thanks Sally - the Howard 'cheer squad' in the Murdoch media I'm sure will turn on Rudd very quickly, in spite of his conservatism. My worry is that he will turn into another Blair/Third Way PM, which is the last thing we need, so I will be keeping a close eye on him.

Peter Costello, the Australian Treasurer (Finance Minister), has also anounced that he will not be seeking the leadership of the Liberal Party and will be going into the private sector after the next election. He was Howard's choice to succeed him as leader - so this has really thrown the cat amongst the rats.

On a personal level, I haven't been back to Oz for over 10 years and have lived under New Labour in the UK for the bulk of that time, and I have never seen any political leader self-destruct as quickly as Gordon Brown. I would love to get rid but there is really no one that can replace him that hasn't been tainted in some way or isn't a lightweight. It's going to be a long. slow painful death for this government and the best the UK can hope for is a hung parliament.

I almost feel like immigrating to the States - at least you've got Dennis.

Sally and all my American friends, just a small point, please, please, please don't refer to 'Brown of England'. He is as Scottish as you can get and he is PM of the United Kingdom - that's all four nations.

Being of Scottish blood and having a Scottish girlfriend, I know how much it riles the Welsh, Northern Irish and Scottish when everything over here is referred to as 'English'.

Thanks.

Jase, thank you for the correction. In order to cover my bases, i usually reference Great Britain. Is this also incorrect?

Now, given the fact that i've been here and there and not paying close attention to all the wonderful links, did anyone read or listen to this on Democracy Now? This Homegrown Terrorrism bill making its way to the Senate is beyond ludicrous. (And fits with your earlier comment, patb.)

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/11/20/1458214

Yes, it's alarming, a reflection of what's being discussed here. Considering the current ME Peace talks (excellent discussion on the Next Hurrah, Shy) then there are some scarred folks on capital here. Are they shoring up their personal wealth before the crash?

During the previous depression, those who had -- who really HAD -- continued to live behind protected gates, continued to dine well, their wealth seemingly immune to the events on the street, the bread lines, abject despair. So, what ARE we really being prepared for.

Interesting times these, but aren't they all?

Karen, Wowee wow-wow! The more we partially disseminate one worrisome gov't move, out comes another. Back in 2000 I called these types of moves "sandbagging the exits" and been surprised it hasn't received a collective name as yet.
Aol, msn, yahoo in September attempted to prevent Truthout.org's newsletters from reaching recipient subscriber's inboxes, regardless of subscriber choice. AOL in particular has been a shockingly intrusive, unrestrained bunch for years..Also we have to look at the more expensive, yet corporate override internets now used extensively in Europe and fly right over these illusory restrictions. NOBODY OWNS THE AIR.
Here's another company that hasn't sold out:
http://workingassetswireless.com/dfawireless

We can't lose our sense of humor and flexibility.
It's THEIR illusion and it doesn't have to be ours. Welcome to the beginning of the STATES taking back their power from Federal intrusions.
If you have a bad governor in particular, work like heck to get rid of them NOW.

Another thing we can do to stay clear in our heads and take care of our energy level is to stay away from the cheap conspiracy theory spooky tooth websites that do nothing but disempower us further (in the guise of being "informative" always without real evidence, juvenile like the National Enquirer). As well as the doomers and gloomers who do nothing constructive but reinforce feelings of helplessness. I swear they get off on some sort of power to keep people hypnotized by fear. They are uncreative leadheads, "supposedly" interested in our freedoms and whose egos capitalize on a sort of "subcategory" of our New National Delusion. You know them by how you FEEL after giving them an audience.

One of the most instructive things my teacher ever said, when a student projected a future scenario as solid, he simply replied:

"Oh, really?"

patb, and another thought. . .seeing reality doesn't mean succombing to despair. Being aware is neither exhilirating or discombubulating. It is both, i think, and neither. Most of us will continue living wide open because this what is occuring NOW appears (at least to me) to be another cycle, and another opportunity to transcend the limits being imposed on us by others. . .but most of all the limits we place on ourselves.

Karen, that's it exactly. Raw and Rugged, no thumbsucking allowed.
Whenever we're absolutely confronted, it is a gift from the shadow, we're all one and all that.
Good case in point is the trial that starts tomorrow, a great example of engagements we can see as an invitation to sharpen our skills:

http://defendwilkerson.org/

We may be flabby, but that's alright.

reading the recent entries I am reminded of why I love this rowdy, unruly site so much. Patb-raw and rugged indeed. LOL "flabby, but that's alright".
The best part of life for me is right now and any tomorrows I am blessed with. Paid my dues for these strong clear days.
Love to you all woman, man, whatever. I just love these leftie, witchie astrologers.

Carol, from your lips to God's ears! Now I'm going to take my pooch, Cowboy, for a walk ... it's a beautiful day!

++++++++

So will I, Marta, but maybe things will improve enough that we can see things are definitely getting better?
Posted by: Carol

Clymela and others,

I have a dear witchy friend who is a solitary worker in a very conservative community. She has informed me she will be moving on within a few months and would like to send her tools (scrying globe/books/ chalice/ etc. to someone who would appreciate them. She says these things are valuable although they have little dollar value. And that, in any event, they must not be sold.

All thoughts welcome, Please email me.

Barbara

My slideshow:

I've tried getting music, and will do so as soon as I find somewhere that will host my files and give me a proper URL

But enjoy.

http://www.slideshare.net/aquariusmoonduhart/for-all-of-the-holidays/

Barbara- for a really weird reason (.mac) I cannot respond to you. Would you be willing to contact me through the usual means and then i can contact you after I put your info into my Email contacts.

Take a break, have a few laughs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYbkYfKMhsU

My blog:
http://carolduhart.blogspot.com/2007/11/multicultrial-holiday.html

That was a good laugh!
I watched My Family & Other Animals on PBS last night. ( book came out in 1956) Anyone else here a big fan of Gerald Durrell? (naturalist younger brother of LAurence Durrell.)
It was total escapism & pure humor! A treat.
QOP

That was a good laugh!
I watched My Family & Other Animals on PBS last night. ( book came out in 1956) Anyone else here a big fan of Gerald Durrell? (naturalist younger brother of LAurence Durrell.)
It was total escapism & pure humor! A treat.
QOP

http://www.cleveland.com/printer/printer.ssf?/base/business-4/119606989156620.xml&coll=2

Wal-Mart draws huge crowd – of applicants
Some say 6,000 job hunters a reflection on economy

snip

When thousands of people compete for a few hundred ordinary jobs, trend watchers say it's an indication not only of a less-than-stellar economy but also of a workforce short on marketable skills.

The huge number of applicants wouldn't have caught anyone's eye had these been skilled, high-paying jobs, the types of positions that thousands of people always seek.

But these were regular retail jobs with low-to-average wages and benefits, not the sort of positions typically in high demand. Target wouldn't disclose the number of people who applied to work at its Steelyard Commons store.

Sadly, few of the people interested in working at Cleveland's first Wal-Mart actually got a job.

Those 6,000 people were competing for some 300 positions. That means for every one person hired, 19 people walked away empty-handed.

More...

How true Pat C. When I was going to school the next to the last time, I remember going for Postal Worker applications-mind you, applications, and there were hundreds. When I went for my current job, people filled the parking lot just so they could pick up applications, let alone actually test for the job. Any job that looked like it was even halfway decent had hundreds of applicants. Even temp jobs had hundreds of applicants.

I got a 92%, and a 93%, for both courses!

Parallel universes, anyone? They think they've found one.
http://www.paternitytestinglabs.com/evidence-for-a-parallel-universe/

So, we're in Eye-rack forever and that's about all we've got to show for all the expenses and sacrifices we've made:
http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/004771.php

http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/004770.php

http://www.thoughttheater.com/2007/11/follow_the_yes_tainted_toys_no_cheaper_meds.php

FOLLOW THE $: YES - TAINTED TOYS; NO - CHEAPER MEDS

Now this is a man who has known what it is to fight for generations without any equal rights and still sings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMF_24cQqT0

WOW!
That started my day off on a high note!
Tried sleeping on the living room floor last night on a feather bed ( for the warmth & firmness)
Hah! didn't work, up at 3:30 am! Looking at the planets; with merc direct hit to my moon, seems that I have somthing important to do.....
QOP

Wow, Shy. . .love that parallel universe postulation. Leads to so many possibilities. The truth is always much more exciting than fiction. Yes? :)

Sally, takes forever for me to load utube due to dial up. So, i'll have to apply my imagination to that as well.

Of course you have something important to do, QOP! Every artist has something important to share. That's my opinion and i'm sticking to it.

Anybody see that gorgeous just-past-full moon with mars so close like a drop of liquid gold?
Awestruck despite the crick in my back (from sitting weird/cross-legged on my chair at the computer) with a laundry basket at my hip.

QOP, got up the same time as you, restless, I have jupiter on your moon within 4 degrees!
The bottom's fallen out of my work just in time for the holidays! Yay!

Anybody see that gorgeous just-past-full moon with mars so close like a drop of liquid gold?
Awestruck despite the crick in my back (from sitting weird/cross-legged on my chair at the computer) with a laundry basket at my hip.

QOP, got up the same time as you, restless, I have jupiter on your moon within 4 degrees!
The bottom's fallen out of my work just in time for the holidays! Yay!

It rained here, no moon.......very warm still!
SInce I always sleep soundly, when I don't, I notice. I tossed & turned on both Sept 9 & 10 '01.
I'm so sorry about your work! That's horrible!
Can you post notices and advertise in the local paper to be "Girl Friday" " social Secretary", to those who are still solvent and time challenged? Errands gift wrapping, organizing etc.?
QOP

HA! HA! QOP, looking to me to organize! Would you put a drunken monkey near a filing cabinet?
Throw a frizbee to an alzheimer's patient? Train your dog to eat with a knife and fork?
Mars/merc situated a mere 7 degrees apart in pisces, my life is like a full glass of water perched 1/3rd off the table.

Such is my life when I'm not "practicing" I fully confess. Brilliant/idiot in equal measure.

Hey y'all! God I hope everyone is okay, Chiron in Aquarius is kicking my you-know-what. I'm at home today with a nasty dry hacking cough I developed overnight, but at least the carpal tunnel flare up in my right hand has subsided somewhat(it woke me up early on Thanksgiving Day.) Oh, and my Dad's brother died on the 8th, 2 weeks before his 77th birthday(he was a Sag, and probably my fave uncle). Is it clear I cannot wait for Chiron to get the hell out of my sun sign and SOON?

I HATE to whine but it seems like that's all I'm good for lately. I have been lurking online and enjoying everyone's posts now that we're relatively troll-free(Bhakti's '60's inspired-post and Shylurker[hey pally!]'s spot-on Southern pronunciation bit stand out) and this currently lovely article by Cap'n Sally(Happy Belated Birthday, Sally, btw) may be her best yet.

I'm hoping everyone is having a good Holiday Season (or as a co-worker of mine calls this time of year, "EATING SEASON"-LOL) and I hope to be closer to 95% after a doctor visit for various other complaints on Thursday.

Namaste and love all'a y'all DEARLY!
peace

Geez, Garry you'll have to make yourself some master tonic! Recipe is not so complicated, but you have to let it set for two weeks, so it won't do you any good now. If you're interested -- at least for the future -- i'll post it.

Sure Karen, I'd welcome any suggestions, would you please post the recipe or email it to me?
Thanks!
GT

Hey Garry, sorry for that wild ride you're having.
May I offer my dad's favorite recipe for a cold, cough or just for the heck of it on a cold day:
Recipe for "Bullshot"
1/2 cup hot beef bouillion
l tbsp V8 or tomato juice room temp.
1/2 tsp worcester sauce
l shot of rum

Garry I can totally empathize, the flu blew through here over Halloween, I am just now getting energy back. Knocked all of us on our butts. Two rounds of antibiotics, no pneumonia but I still sound cruddy. I ended up with prescription potassium iodine and fish oil, old fashion cures, so much for antibiotics and flu treatments. Ack I'm still a slug.

Karen yes post your recipe, we haven't begun to see the bugs these jerks have loosed on humanity.

Patb, oh my I like that recipe!

The Tonic Recipe...

http://www.curezone.com:80/schulze/herbal_immune_system.asp

Are we going to blog the Reiblican Youtube debate tomorrow night?
Ought to be lots of humor then!
QOP

Wow, thanks Karen and Morgana and PATB, I feel better already! I would be remiss at this juncture if I didn't post my Dad's own cough syrup formula from "back in the day":

Dissolve 3 (or 4, it's been a LONG time) King Leo peppermint sticks in the bourbon whiskey of your choosing(his fave, as I recall, was "Heaven Hill") and take as needed.

Come to think of it, I do recall having a LOT more "coughing spells" back then than today....
;-D

I came home to see what y'all had to say about the screaming reality of the congress voting to go all fascist on us and what do I find but homey talk of illness and tonics. this is why i love this site so much and always come here first.
And then...Saly's link Thank you for that.
Pat B I love all my "water sign sweethearts" always wondering off going left to go right heading east to go west but somehow they are always where they need to be and on time.

Woot! Woot! Garry was here. Don't stay away so long next time, ya heah?

Zogby's latest poll shows Hillary losing to all top GOP Candidates

I don't know anyone who supports Hillary. Apparently, Zogby's latest poll, done on-line, doesn't show much traction for the senator either.

Poll: Clinton Would Lose Against Every Top Republican; Obama And Edwards Strong

I believe there are a whole lot of women who REALLY want a female president. So do I. But Hillary doesn't cut it. In Jungian terms, she hasn't made peace with her animus (the male energy within her,) meaning she's trying too hard to be a man. This is a very hard road for any woman to walk and this accusation might be necessary, meaning that my opinion, being a more andogynous man may reflect a perception that does not reflect that of the "stupid white man" southern male that she may be trying to reach. But I'm not sure. a woman who has made peace with her animus has developed the ability to tap its strength and aggressiveness without sacrificing her feminine energies or nature. This is all about balance, maturity and actualizing full potential. Then, we should also consider that there is the real Hillary and the Hillary she choses to manifest for the public and the TV cameras. I'm guessing her DLC advisors have encouraged her to grow some testicles. Stupid.

Regardless of Hillary's balancing of masculine and feminine archetypal energies, she's waaayyy to far right, the dream DLC candidate. It's a syllogism. Republicans vote for republicans not Democrats who act like Republicans. If she wins the primaries, the energy of the progressive movement will be massively dampened. It's sad that progressive female leaders have not come forward to run-- Barbara Boxer, Oprah... We should be having conversations on who the best, smartest, strongest women leaders are.

From OpEdNews

From OpEdNews

November 27, 2007
Is Cheney's Heart Ailment Real - Or Could It Be a Pretext for His Resignation?

Submitted by Joan Brunwasser

The strain of disorderliness must be tormenting the GOP power base.And all of it could be wiped away in a simple fiat-the replacement of Cheney with a new VP whom they could anoint right away to become Bush's successor.Who might fit the bill-who could be counted on to beat the Dems next Nov and keep the Bush family secrets for at least 4 more years?Only 1 name comes to mind:experienced & available,tanned & rested-it's Jeb!

Yeh right! Another criminal!
I dreamed I was having a VERY assertive, animated,
conversation about my religious history with ( AT?) Barbara Bush! ( I was doing ALL the talking!)????
Good beautiful morning to all!
QOP

Alright ya'll -- here it is. The Master Tonic is both powerful anitfungal and antibiotic agents. wv, thank YOU for the link, now here's the particulars:

Master Tonic

*raw unfiltered, unbleached, non-distilled apple cider vinegar.

*1 part chopped garlic cloves

*1 part fresh chopped white onion

*1 part fresh grated ginger root

*1 part fresh grated horseradish root

*1 part fresh chopped cayenne peppers (or other hot peppers, habanero's, et al.)

Fill a glass jar 3/4 way full with equal parts of the chopped roots. (I usually use two because i chop about a cup of each above.)

Pour vinegar over the top. Fill your jars.

Seal, then shake at least once a day for two weeks.

Strain, and voila -- Master Tonic.

Use organic if possible for the best potentcy.

Dose is 1/2 to 1 ounce, two or more times daily. Gargle and swallow. Don't dilute with water.

(This lasts indefinitely, no special storage. It's safe for children, but the strong taste may turn them off.)

My son in law took some for what appeared to be the beginning of a cold. His statement was, "this tastes like my mother's salad dressing." His mother is in her late 70's, from rural France. Despite his quip, the tonic did take care of that cold.

I use on the outset of any sign of a cold/infection.

On another note. . .i believe Hilary is just disingenuous. She IS contrived, as though projecting some image of her self that she believes others want to see.

QOP. . .it's stunningly beautiful here this morning as well. Gives me chills.

Oh shoot, All, i fogot to comment on all the other suggestions. . .Whoop Whoop! Bring on the bourbon. :) Like the doctor who came home one day with a serious cold and recommended the following: Put your hat the rack. Mix up a healthy dose of bourbon, honey and lemon. Drink up until you see two hats on the rack. Voila! Cured.hehehehehehehe

Karen, Add tea to the honey bourbon & lemon juice, and you have my ex's favorite cold remedy!
He NEVER got a bad cold, however he died of liver disease at 47 ( years old)!
And it has to be bourbon, not whiskey, rum, etc.!
I'm off to the woman artist's coffee clache, to share with them the info from the Juice COnference.
And to the PO to mail out completed calendars!
Our local writer celeb. who has done extensive booksignings, said she is getting phone calls from all over the world, re: NYT article, on our Milbridge LIHEAP dilemma. SHe thinks the Senators are responsible for it.
QOP

Karen-thanks for the tonic recipe. I have received it in various forms but this seems like the "full" recipe. wouldn't you know I just bought a bottle of Dr Bronners unfilerted, non pasturized cider vinegar- I got it for the flavor.
OMG-Jeb Bush is, if possible, worse than his brother. That was one scarey thought.

Clymela, I live in Florida and Jeb is not considered near as bad as his big brother. He is much smarter and communicates much better than W. He is insanely popular in Florida.

He is dangerous because he could win the presidency, he actually has a personality.

I'm thinking that whoever actually gets the nomination will choose him as a VP. Just a thought.

This Tonic is also highly recommendable for/against/to disolve gall stones.
Super Tonic Formula by Dr. Schulze or good Old European home remedy!
Formulas: FRESH ORGANIC JUICES (or diced) of Horseradish, (or black radish) root(helps to dissolve gall stones!) Garlic bulb, Onion bulb, Ginger root and Cayenne peppers in a base of Raw Unfiltered Apple Cider Vinegar.

I would add one part fresh cilantro too, to help eliminate the toxins out of your system.

Ohterwise a quick cough remedy
take one diced onion mix it with unrefined cane sugar or honey(not for small children) let it sit over night. Next strain the onions and refrigerate the juice.
1 teasp. - 1 tbl.
adding some fresh chopped Thyme will improve the remedy.
Have a good season
Charles

Did that solitary ever get her things sorted out?

Interesting tonics, all.

from alt.astrology.moderated: something to think about:

Tonight, when you are sleeping, Nostradamus, Kepler and Ptolemy will
appear to you in a dream. They will ask of you to create some kind of
organization (or network or...) for astrologers that is to bring about
a massive world change in the perception of astrology. You will be
free to choose whatever position in that organization you like, doing
the astrology you like most of all. They will pay the bills. They will
make whatever you wish in this respect come true. Don't ask how, just
trust that it will be done.

Okay.

So. What's the hook?

The hook is, you will have to report back to them by next New Moon,
when they will return. You must have a vision of what is needed and
what can be done and some inkling about priorities. You will have to
give them directions, cause they don't know the times and they need
your informed opinion to make it all happen.

The coming New Moon, what will you answer them?

It always "gets" me why we astrologers have to convince anyone of anything. I always tell my clients to doubt because that is what keeps them thinking and preserves their sanity.
If they get the right result from what I tell them, let those results add up, but trust their inherent intelligence first.
To even care who "believes" in astrology is suspicious. I've wondered for 30 years why astrologers should care whether the 'scientific' community or any other body of specialized knowledge comes around to our way of thinking or not, and it suggests a deep misguided insecurity at that.
All arts and sciences blend in the law of physics as the reverent Einstein well knew.

Interesting tho not related, last night I did hit on a possible new pattern I've not seen mentioned before.

As for the rest, like Robert Bly said in one of his poems, "the magic has left the wine". Wah, bourbon and the rest give me a subterranean wretch response. Wish the magic would come back because I think drinking is kind of romantic and humanizing when it's done right!

Just as I thought ...

http://www.planetwaves.net/contents/my_america.html

Holy crap, Marta! Great link from Eric. I've "felt" this for some time, many of us have. Continue to hone my survival skills and my sense of humor, both of which will be needed in coming times. What i would have liked to see Eric explore is the link between Cheney and the New Hampshire chart. Maybe he'll do that.

Karen, seems Eric has pointed out the Open Secret:
the next election is fullabeans.
Even astrologers (who ought to be more enlightened, right?) are disseminating nominees according to what the MSM has FED THEM.
All I can say to people is, FLIP THE LIST! Because the contenders at the BOTTOM: Kucinich, Biden, Gravel are for REAL! They are people they tell you are "unelectable" (no, no, we can't have a SANE president, just go for the ones we've prepackaged FOR you).
It makes me wild how few are on to what's really happening to us, how few THINK and fewer still who LISTEN. Astrologers who are handling Hillary and Obama as real are feeding into the national- delusional-dream-to-to-become-national-nightmare.

IT'S A BIG FAT LIE, mars/neptune square insanity will win, just like the natal square we have in our national chart.
Guess we've got to suffer more (gee, with mars/pluto sidling up before the swearing-in the thumbscrews are going in good and tight) for our delusionary choices until we as a nation begin using our god-given BRAINS.

I try to be cheerful, but am so disgusted with our fellow man's inability to have vision after all this death, we STILL HAVEN'T LEARNED SQUAT.

Forgot to mention Dodd as well.

Impeach Cheney, Bush and Pelosi!

By Ted Lang

It is Pelosi who now represents Cheney-Bush's most powerful and effective enabler and supporter. Pelosi is now a vital part of the Cheney-Bush crime machine. She is an accessory before, during and after the fact. And she assuredly supports the AIPAC/Cheney-Bush crime machine's intended and unwarranted, unconstitutional invasion of Iran.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18786.htm

If you hadn't broought up DOdd I would have patb.I just saw him interviewed by Judy WOodruff..........he is real and he dwells on the constitution and things we have lost to the crooks, every opportunity someone gives him TV time!
QOP

Olberman has plenty of NEWS to compete with the debate, unheard anywhere else!
Guliani has all kinds of links to terrorism! Altani of Quater client of rudies firm.who sheltered kalid sheik mahamad & osama, who and also visited Rudy in NY after 9/11.
Wayne Barrett, ( VIllage VOice) Rudy's biographer.
QOP

QOP I'm still at work and my husband couldn't tolerate the repug debate so I"ll have to chime in with the reruns. I hear Guiliani is a goner with the latest revelations. Betcha he gets indicted after he is the candidate.

HEY-

I'm watching Keith Olbermann and loving hearing about these two Guliani scandals. The Dems must hit Guliani HARD. C'mon guys!

Morgana, I'm 200% with your husband on that one.
We know everything we need to know at this point and who needs another snoot-full of contaminated rot to ruminate. Of course, the audience will be damn near empty as the rhetoric were it not so lethally devoid of reality.

Dodd QOP, YES. YES. YES. (She wept).

I am sticking with Olberman! It's been too nice a day to spoil it!
QOP

Did I miss a Merc rx? I'm still working, arghhh, (it was my bad though, I hate errors they take hours to fix (computer programmer). Dodd, er Kucinich, I'm leaning that way.

I'll vote for Hillary!!! She's a living breathing human, however flawed her judgement!
Every one of these Repugs is terrifying!
Get out there and volunteer for ANY DEMOCRAT!
Of course lets remember the=at CNN has chosen the VERY LAME LIMITED questions.
Your husband is brilliant Morgana!
QOP

Karen and Patb, I couldn't agree with both of you more. It's time to stop feeding the beast and cooperating. Bottom of the list it is for me. I won't vote for Hillary (sorry QOP). It makes me ill just to think of it. It's time to break out of ... vote for anybody who's a democrat (even if we don't get to pick them). All they do is have a democrat who will do their bidding be the candidate. In anycase, I don't think Hillary can win. She is the perfect candidate for them to steal the vote again because everybody "knows" she's unelectable by the majority and that will resonate. The truth is, I have yet to hear ANYBODY I know (aside from a few posters here and there - nobody I personally know) say, Hillary's my candidate. So we need to stop buying into the top of the list and go from the bottom up. Kucinich is my guy. I did the test from www.ontheissues.org and I'm going one by one to see what each of their platforms are. It is very eye-opening. Who needs the MSM when you can close your ears and read up on what they really stand for rather than a soundbite and then somebody telling you what you're supposed to think.

Oh Marta, I DON"T want Hillary either, Kucinich is also My choice.. All I meant was compared to ANY OF THE REPUGS including ROn Paul, Hill looks FABULOUS!
Not much of a statement n her favor!
QOP

QOP, Marta, that's been my assertion all long--isn't HRC still one of the most polarizing figures ever?

The rightwingnuts and the media started on her from day 1 of the Clinton presidency, and she did nothing to make herself seem more likeable, or refute anyone's perceptions of her--so, is that the endgame?

She and Obama("The Unelectables") are set up as the "frontrunners" on the Dem side so that the last rich white guy standing on the GOP side steals the 2008 votes?

Meanwhile....in the Middle East, large & vigorous protests against the Annapolis Summit!
Alon Pincus of Israel considers Bush the big loser of the conference! Because he left this so late in his presidency!
Mosaic News on Link TV.
QOP

November 28, 2007 Permalink

Kucinich Slamdunks All Dems in DFA Poll Submitted by Rady Ananda

Needless to say, when I clicked on the link to read the article it HAD DISAPPEARED! Boy! They're working overtime! This was the blurb on OpEdNews.

Tell A Friend

In the first real test of grassroots support for the eight Democratic Presidential candidates, Ohio Congressman Dennis Kucinich scored a stunning first place finish nationally and topped every other candidate in 41 of 50 states, according to results released on November 6th by Democracy for America (DFA).

QOP and Gary, the fact is, and I agree with both of your posts, we are being stampeded into voting for Hill or Obama, neither of which are a) going to get us out of this mess or b) win or c) are the choice of the progressive community (who are not dumb and weren't born yesterday). It's all psyops and nothing more. You get the herd confused, stampede them and when the dust is up to their horns, you corral them and close the gate. We should stop being ashamed of saying who we'd REALLY like to see win, who we REALLY believe in, or who we REALLY believe reflects our values because that becomes contagious. Let's stop letting them do a Dean Scream on us. We shoulda learned last time, and the time before, and the time before ... anyway...

Cap'n Sally, could you please chime in here? Which seems more important--the NH chart, the individual candidates' (and their spouses) charts, the U.S. chart, or any others, in trying to decipher likely election outcomes and the aftermath? This is very confusing to me. Do you think my confusion would be alleviated by one of those alcohol-heavy cold remedies people have been posting for Garry?

Oy, wv, just saw your information clearing house tidbit on Pelosi. Well, I've been telling ya'll they all bat for the same team for awhile now. With the stranglehold they have on the "counters", i.e. blackbox voting, I wouldn't be surprised if they allowed the dems to win in 2006 - I saw "allow" because it should have been a massive LANDSLIDE (instead we got by with "just enough" for the election count to be considered credible (from the standpoint of the outcome, i.e. Dems swept Congress, otherwise they would (maybe) have caused a riot. They made sure the "win" wasn't a majority (over 60 so they could control the votes) and they made sure Liarman got in, 'cause he flips both sides, which can be useful). In the end, they bought themselves some time. It took everybody about another year (an eternity) to figure out that it was a sham (some people still haven't) and they're able to mask the steal again by repeating the dems are wimps, blah, blah, blah (which looks true obviously). But they ain't wimps if they are doing it on purpose, right?

Pelosi is a mainstream politician and she's been at it for years. Her dad was a professional pol and she learned the ropes from him ... these guys may not all like each other, but in the end they're all "buddies working towards the same goals" and the scam is to have us believe that they don't pursue the same common interests (one of which, in case anybody missed it, is to SCREW US FROM HERE TO SUNDAY!). I keep on tellin' ya. We'se gots ta turn things upside down.

Marta you are ON FIRE! I think your scenario above is 100% correct too. Brilliant!

Now, back to my booz--uh, cough syrup[hiccup].(nudge, nudge, wink, wink, eh, Shy?)

I sure hope this sinus attack cures my alcoholism...(he said, jokingly...)

Yes SHy,
The " STRONG" cold remedy, will either clear up your confusion, or put you to sleep so you don't care.....
For me, I sleep perchance to dream, I hope it's NOT Babs tonight!
QOP

Marta, remember the dem nominee lineup in '04?
I recall Kerry and thought, "no, not him, not him, he's the worst of the bunch". Now admit that gut feeling out loud. That too was a setup.
Voted that year. Won't not vote. Thinking, well, if I don't vote for the first time in 40 years, maybe the dam holding back this collective wet tonage of poison can hasten to it's natural critical mass, and the resultant damage part of the collective cure.

When are we going to fight back this thick black fog. But it's pretty damn thick. After the damage is done and the States themselves fight back, then we'll be going where we need to go and not before.

I will vote my conscience and sanity. Kucinich and Dodd and Biden.

I tried posting something a few minutes ago, but who knows where it went. Hope this is not a repeat.

The worldwide oligarchy is gonna get us all if we can't figure out how to outwit them. I can't figure out how smart the ruling faction is, though. "Somebody" put Jr. in and he's really blown it.

Whatever happened to the WTO protests? Those guys knew who the enemy was and they were waging righteous confrontations at various points on the globe.

And, Garry, I think all that alcohol is supposed to cure your sinusitis and not the other way around. But whatta I know?

Now, let's see if I can post this little msg.

Another thing, the "Birth of State Power Moment" happened just a few months ago when the National ID demand and the COST was imposed on the states.
The governors basically told Skeletor to stuff it AND his threats up his skinny shanks.

Pat B, as to your point on those candidates at the bottom, the ones without any money, goes to astrologers looking at the chart of the election and seeing that it will go to someone with the money, or with "secret funds" unknown and moving in to coffers. Dennis Kucinich "star" will continue to rise over the next 4 years, so that is something for him. I love Joe Biden and would love to see him as president, he has all the experience we need but with Neptune squaring his Scorpio, it's going to be a slog for him and for Dodd, but they are out their telling the truth and they should form an independent party, they would get tons more attention that way and more money, especially if they can get Bloomberg and a Hagel on board, even maybe Gore as a spokesman for them. If we really want change then one of those candidates have to do something exciting and different, so far they have not except speak out. Dodd caught their attention when he stopped a vote on the communication companies and spying on us, but he needs to keep this pressure on.

On election day there is Mars in Scorpio (21 degrees) squaring Neptune in Aquarius (21 degrees) Mars falls right on Biden's Mercury and Neptune squares it. Falls right on Hillary's Mercury with Neptune squaring it, aspects negatively John Edwards Chart and Obama's progressed chart.

I think the Mercury direct on Election Day at the exact same degree of Mercury retrograde in 2000 indicates something wrong will be righted, but I also think the Mars/Neptune square is a disturbing sign for "truth in election." On Election day Jupiter at 17 Capricorn and Uranus at 18 Pisces sextiles a completed yod to that aspect by any candidate is 16/17/18 Leo and Al Gore is the only one who has those degrees to complete it, and he isn't running. Dodd and Huckabee come close to filling that point of destiny but not quite. Cheney cannot be compared to the election chart because if he would get in it would be a complete coup of this country and the election chart in comparison to his would not be a comparison, could not be one.

This will be a "money" election and "sleezy" money at that (Mars square Neptune)Biden does have his natal Mars conjunct the natal Sun of the election chart and that is a good sign for him.

The one thing about the Mars/Neptune square on election day is Mars will sextile the US natal Neptune and Neptune will trine the US natal Mars, activating new possibilities to heal this country. I asked a year or so ago "what do you (the people) want this country to look like? to be? Do you want it to look like you "thought" it was, because it was never what we thought it was, what we thought was a lie. Is that what we want? or do we want something new, something authentic? I don't believe this election will be authentic and I believe we will have to work individually and collective to change the systemic problems of this country. How do we eat an elephant? One bite at a time!

No one, no one on the face of the earth can undo the damage that has been done to this country over the last 25 years in this election or the next or the one after that. It will take radical steps; higher taxes, a new way to find our fuel, a community return, maybe lower wages for those at the top, some risk taking souls starting up US manufacturing businesses, and the people insisting upon and monitoring our leaders, force them to be accountable. We haven't shown a willingness to make some of those hard decisions. Most on this board are doing something, some little something to make changes, even if we continue doing that, and we the people can continue to expand efforts we can make it happen.

I am curious as to what each person's vision is of America for the future.

As for Pelosi and the rest of her "THEY (protesters of the war) are Advocates, WE are the leaders":

Perhaps we ought to show them (too long a list) just how quickly those advocates with their shoeshine kits and wooly heads can flash-cook their careers with straight talking progressives and send them scurrying for cabs like 20dollar hookers after a rough night.

Hi Sally! Much appreciate that rundown, especially about Biden.
Like the delusional drunk our natal chart reflects (no offense to actual people with the disease and the pain of it) our country has to hit bottom.
Those wonderful solutions you list cannot happen with the gov't itself protecting it's "power and money habit" will undermine efforts at manufacturing at home, as will efforts to undo our freedoms of every stripe including our freedoms of speech and communication via the internet, the buying up of newspapers all over the country, the radio stations, the MSM we view, the dumbing down and doing away with proper education of the precious treasure for the future which are our children, the doing away with the department of education itself, and that ugly little problem called Blackwater...the list goes on seemingly forever. Our country is just too sick and too broken for patchy efforts to succeed.

Sally, I think the solutions must be systemic within the system we have, and that a third party does little other than kill the host as we've seen repeatedly happen. It must come from within replacing all weakened house members in both parties. You said yourself, it is money. Who gets the money? The persons the republicans can manipulate, that's who gets the money.

As for astrologers concentrating on certain candidates as done deals, they too are feeding the delusion. We've seen darkhorses stretch ahead and win without the money. Now we have the media killing the consciousness of our too busy to notice voters.

I contend we have to hit bottom like a drunk and lose everything before we can slowly and honestly heal this country and start respecting life again.

Last comment I swear:

Why does the power have to return to the states?
Because however any election goes there are those who wish us, this good earth and it's precious non-replaceable sentient lives dead if we are in the way of their reach for power. They are NOT GOING FAR until their next opportunity at a grab for power. States can go to war with the Feds themselves if need be which is why we need State Power to counteract this from ever happening again. AND we can do it with confidence and good cheer because we are part of nature and we don't hate ourselves.
They are entrenched in the system like living with cancer. This must be radical surgery.

If our vision includes only a few elections we have not done a complete healing the disease will return. Bet on it.

The swearing-in chart of '09 is the lamest chart I've ever seen.

When I was teaching art at the YWCA a few years ago, I saw through a rent in the materialistic curtain, a Renaissance forming, generated by those kids.
Maine is already very stronge on States rights, having defied the NCLB, ( in favor of Maine Kids Count), ID cards, voting for Impeachment, forming a commerce region with New Brunswick & the Maritimes CA. on our border. etc.
Now the intent to boost the creative economy, with funds to back it, is moving in that direction.
Given the strong movement towards organic farming and interest in alternative energy, here in the state, I think we will increasingly lead the country in innovation.
No matter how dark it has been(and I do poverty very badly!) I have clung to the belief that I am here for a reason!
Actually.the first 6 months I was here, when I went back to NJ for a Christmas visit.......... I read in the paper about a youg woman who was doing a mural in downtown Trenton,NJ, who was murdered while loading her supplies in her car late at night.
I CANCELED MY APPOINTMENT to see that restauranteur,about painting a mural, because I found a buyer for my house and was going to be leaving!
Nuff said!
QOP

Correctly that should read: I HAD cancelled my appointment, ( 8 months prior)
P

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/karl-roves-shameless-re_b_74499.html

Karl Rove's Shameless, Remorseless, Soulless Attempt to Rewrite History
Posted November 28, 2007 | 12:50 PM (EST)

I went on Countdown last night to talk about what Keith Olbermann called Karl Rove's "attack on history."

During an interview with Charlie Rose, the erstwhile Boy Genius pulled out his bucket of whitewash and audaciously claimed that "one of the untold stories" about the war in Iraq is that the Bush administration had been "opposed' to Congress holding the vote authorizing the president to use military force in Iraq just a few weeks prior to the 2002 elections because "we thought it made it too political.".........................
QOP

Smokin'! Or is it drinkin'? You AWers give me faith in humanity, the human beings who chose to leave small footprints, but great good energy as gifts to those who remain parasitically attached to their own self importance.

This conversation would not be complete without a little Naomi Klein, whose book is on the New York Times best seller list. . .which surprised me when i heard it yesterday during Amy Goodman's interview. Did anyone else see this interview? I ask because Naomi was visibly frightened. It disturbed me and my dreams reflected it. The link: http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/11/28/159221

Another little tidbit that i've to research has to do with a little known transportation bill that will be working itself through the House. I'll bet you find it before i do, wv, but i'm still gonna look this morning, see what i can find. This bill would restrict our travel from state to state. And, it would require permission from the state to travel. My husband and i have talked about this so often for we saw this as another offshoot of control.

And Shy. . .if i were to wish for anything, it would be your sharp with and sense of humor!

Sally, i'm so dense, but i'm not really i understand comparing Cheney's prevalent energies on election day to the election chart. . .even though he's supposed to be ceding power.

oops. . .i meant this, Sally. I don't understand. Can you further enlighten me in comparing Cheney's chart to the election chart?

Marta,just a comment Dr. Merkel made when asked by a journalist why the German people are not allowed to vote for or against the EU constitution.
She said,"Where would we get if we would allow the people to decide!"

We are only there to keep up an appearance of democracy so they let us make a "choice". Hopefully more and more people world wide will get the message.

Garry, Patb and Sally, personally I think the only thing we can do is try to "shock" the system by making sure that we vote in the primaries and vote our conscience and not for who can "win". In the end, if the black box voting is going to determine the outcome anyway, that means that our votes don't count. It will at the very least be good for our souls to try and buck the system rather than try to go along with it. It's like exercise, at first it's hard, then as you get in better shape it gets easier and easier. In any case, a massive vote for Dodd, Kucinich or any other of the non "top-tier" (their designation, not ours) candidate, even if they manipulate the results, may collectively help the nations soul. Call it a protest vote if you will. One small step in the right direction.

I hated Kerry too. However, even though I thought the election would be stolen through the black boxes and manipulation, I thought ... let me give this a shot, let me fully participate and see what happens. I was a moveon volunteer and spent a few weeks/hours going door to door canvassing for him. When he conceded the election so quickly with all the weird stuff going on in Ohio and Florida I thought .... he's cooperating in this. He was a prop.

I know that feeling. I'll tell ya'll a funny story ... when I was about 21 (old enough to know better) a friend of mine talked me into agreeing to participate in a beauty contest (that is so not me, I don't know what I was thinking - well, I obviously wasn't thinking ...) because she said they didn't have enough candidates and it would be FUN (I like fun - fun is good :)! Well, I go through this process. Me and about 20 other young women and rumors start to swirl because one of the girls got all the attention and the press and everyone seemed to be steered towards her. It became pretty clear that she had been pre-selected and was being groomed and presented as a fait accompli. She wasn't, by far, one of the most attractive or accomplished women there. Clearly, it was another girl and soon stories got planted in the press about her (the other girl who was really beautiful) not being a "good" candidate even though she was by far the most beautiful. Anyway, long story short. It got ugly. Several of us got so upset about it we weren't going to participate in the culminating event. Long story short, the pre-selected candidate won. A few months later, while doing some modeling work, I'm at a factory trying on clothes and during a break the designer told us how, months before the pageant, the girl who "won" had had all of her clothes made up for her (she was a big girl). So, we were right. I found out the full story later and it turned out we were right on the mark. The girl who "won" was the daughter of a good friend of the pageant organizer. End of story. My point about all this is that continuing to participate in a lie and going along with a lie is enabling the "powers that be". It's a tacit allowance of the gaming of the system (wink, wink, nod, nod). If we don't start throwing wrenches into their carefully constructed mirage, we'll never get to the truth of it all nor will anything ever change. I know it's asking a lot of people and it can be a very painful process to go through. Looking into the pit and seeing it for what it is can be alienating and disheartening (at first). It takes a long time to digest the fact that most of what we've been taught or assume is a bunch of lies. But eventually you realize that that knowledge hasn't affected you adversely.

My point is that in these systems it's all about smoke and mirrors. The outcome is already decided, but you do need the props there to "validate" the outcome, to make it seem as if it's real. You need to somehow convince people to participate because then they own the outcome, even if they don't agree with it.

There's that old, "well, we'll do better next time" wishful thinking. That buys them a few more years to continue to chip away. That wishful thinking is what keeps people from getting really righteously angry and thinking about change. It's an escape valve.

The voters in the US are like I was in my naivete. We expect the system to deliver what is promised, a fair election by the people, for the people. They control the counters. Who do you think they (their counters) are going to vote for? Their candidate, who advances their interests? Or ours? After 2000, 2002, 2004 and 2006, I think it's pretty clear.

So, let's stop cooperating. Let's vote our conscience and tell everybody we know who that person is and why they're our candidate. Let's take the time to look at the list and read about all of their stances/programs. Let's stop participating in the "beauty contest" and start looking at the candidates from a rational outlook and judge each of them accordingly. And if we're going to vote, let's not vote for "Kerry" because he's the candidate, even though we don't like him (we saw where that got us), let's write in our own candidate (is that possible?). The truth matters.

In the end, I think it's like what Patb said, the system is failing and it won't be until we hit rock bottom that things will change ... so let's get used to "going against the grain", let's flex those "change muscles", cause we're gonna need them.

Charles, great point (about Merkel and the Germans). Guess it's happening all over the place, doesn't mean it's set in stone.

When the escape valve gets turned off the steam has no place to go. What do you think the outcome of that will be? They know it, too. That's why they're putting all of these draconian laws into place ... to try to control us. That's a lot of "us". Remember the French Revolution? How about our own Revolution? I was reading the Declaration of Independence the other day and started to laugh. Full circle. All of the items listed in the declaration that warranted our revolution against King George are HAPPENING AGAIN, WORD FOR WORD. Only this time, it's our government (as I wrote that I thought, well, last time it was our government too ... hmmmmmm).

Marta, Marta keep up that clear full-circle voice!
Finally we're talking nitty gritty and am so so weary of talking AROUND this growing national shadow and we MUST CONFRONT what is happening like real men and women so we can get on with what our strategies will look like.
So Marta, please don't go anywhere. Let's bounce this around and brainstorm it through.
Present and future generations are depending on us to get a spine...perhaps congress we are so exasperated about is really OUR OWN SHADOW.

Now we must OWN this shadow of our own creation and like you & I are one with, VOTE for what we KNOW IS TRUE. ACT for what we know is true.
NO MORE LIES and have our walk and talk be matching genuine expressions of life, raw and rugged as I've hinted before.

Since there is no way around this we will discover just how invigorating it is to express through our mind, action, speech and body what is true. Sraight-up no ice.

Vermont will follow Maine, and I think Upper New York will too. Washington and Oregon and California. Ohio will take longer, but who knows?

Patb, I'll definitely second the "truth squad" technique.... no more "go along to get along". Let's try doing the right thing for a change, instead of doing what others tells us!

Anyway, I'm not going anywhere ... I'm a constant lurker and only get my voice every once in awhile. Hope I'm not being too strident (I get told that every once in awhile even when my mouth is firmly shut - it appears that people (family and friends) are so afraid of what I'm going to say that they shut me up before I say it ... I swear to goodness! It's the damndest thing!). In the end, everybody has to arrive at their own conclusions ...

Hey, that shadow thing set me to thinking (again)! thanks!

Marta, regarding this bill to constrict travel from state to state (and these bills don't go away even when voted down lest we forget: think of what happened to the Alaskan Refuge bill even tho many repugs were against it, the re-emergence of the CA electoral power grab after it's sound defeat barely 6 weeks ago after herculean effort is baaaaa-ack).

If this is indian wrestled away from us, and it WILL be a struggle, there will be a new ironical States Awareness borne on those very restrictions.
In the same way states rejected the tab for National ID despite threats by the Feds to withhold other funding, resistance of most states
(doesn't have to be all states) will steer them into their own state identities as if each were an individual person.
This rejection by CO and others were not just about funding, our governor Ritter directly spoke truth to power and said National ID's are a violation of our constitutional rights.

It has begun. Everything we need is here now at our disposal intrinsic, coherent, and right now.

Karen, I thought you meant as a candidate for Cheney. Election day charts change, if we start at midnight in Dixville Notch, NH and end at the last booth closure in California (I think) the Moon and all 4 key houses will have changed as well as Mercury (in this case) Cheney has a mixture of positive and negatives on election day (if he makes it to election day as veep) The election day chart is not the best chart to access the candidates at this time, because all of them have some kind of connection to the election chart and not all of them are going to make it to the election. Howard Dean had absolutely the best aspects for election night and he didn't even make it as a candidate in 2004 but he started to make strides of respect by election night.

Election night is best tracked (and most accurate) by going state by state to see which candidate they will likely choose. Who will probably win that state whether the election is rigged or not, you can also tell which state was rigged that way.

Marta is right about "the fix is in" I am curious as to what the fix might be, it seems as if everyone is focused on Hillary, but I am wondering if the media (who has not liked the Clintons) are building her up to win the nomination and then tear her apart before the election, like they did Kerry. The important thing here is to vote, doesn't matter who just vote, they need to know we are indeed out here watching. I think it's interesting that there has not been a rise of the Green Party, and not word one from the Socialists Party. Even if Nadar is a jerk he is usually vocal and he isn't at all these days. Maybe it's too early, maybe they stacked the field with candidates to keep others at bay, I don't know.

Charles, you are so right. Outside of money and power (we've given them) these people aren't any different that we are. We don't ask or take "the children's advice" if we want to move or redecorate or do anything. I think of the times my kids whined "I don't want to go to the store" but I felt I had to go and I would say "I don't care, get into the car."

Did you know that more teachers have masters than CEO's but a CEO's Master seems to be more valuable than a teacher's in this country, in almost any country. Did you know that we are the lowest in income disparity between the top and the bottom of any industralized country? Our "leaders" have not been asleep at the wheel, they have taken advantage or stolen every opportunity we have given them by "us" being asleep at the wheel. As Merkel clearly stated, they are there for themselves, their ideals, their greed, their issues, and their power. The people across the world have been able to force the Kyoto Treaty on their governments except this one. Australia and the US are the only two countries refusing to sign on and Australia is about to change that, leaving the US standing alone like idiots.

There are pockets of anger and frustration in this country and they are getting bigger by the day. Henry Hyde, the big Republican who led Clinton's impeachment, just died. And a quote I heard from him when Bush gave him the Medal of Honor at his retirement was how honored he was and "we aren't at great as people think we are." I thought Henry, not all that many people think you are great or that politicians are great.

Venus rules the mid-heaven of the US chart and it starts out the ruler of the mid-heaven on election day. Venus will be in Sagittarius on election day in a sextile to Neptune and a square to Uranus, perhaps America will receive a pleasant surprise.

HA-haha! Marta, I too am the family/collective threat like you wouldn't believe...all those perameters being patrolled, all those deflectors going up! I've been handed the bag of pain, moved 2,000 miles away and still I am discussed like some legendary horror.
Did I disgrace the family with ill repute? No.
Did I steal or compete in dirty deals over money?
No. Did I disgrace them with drugs or drink and throw untold unwelcome responsibility on them? No.
I am the family exile and can't tell you how painful that is or what happens to me internally when in proximity to them. I am attacked with this astonishing visceral insanity (neither parent who divorced when I was 18months old did a thing for my future).

I just didn't know how to follow the Script, read philosophers and buddhism and psychology, all because of a need for psychological and spiritual survival of the most desperate, raw and rugged kind. It did NOT come cheap.

Sally I would absolutely love it if Americans upset the apple cart on election day. Rock the boat, tip the boat over.

The snippets I've read about last nights GOP debate clearly displayed the sick headedness of the GOP'ers, their intolerance, racism, greed. The only one with a shred of decency is McCain, and he's just this side of a nut job himself.

Americans, don't count us out, we've a history of rocking the boat, State by blue State. Meanwhile Californians have to stop the Rudy riggers trying to steal electoral votes.

It is painful for me to say this: dispersing our energies on 3rd party platforms is a big mistake.
Think of how weakened Kucinich would have been had he worked as a separate satellite in a 3rd party. How just a short time ago Lieberman effectively icepicked the strong, strong democratic contender who would have ended his career with a straightforward one-on-one competition for the senate. Lieberman knew the power of the independent party and used it to his advantage. Now that very independent party he used has sought to futile end to eject him from their party as misrepresenting them.
Nader himself has accepted republican funding because they wanted him to run, and he did.

Kucinich has it right. His face, his truth and his message must be identified in a traditional party for him to stay strong. His choice enabled him to force the impeachment effort against Cheney and Bush to the embarrassment of the so-called democratic leadership. As an independent he would not have had nearly the impact, and his effort, regardless of it's immediate fate will not be forgotten. Either absorb into the existing setup and strengthen it from within or we are our own worst enemy, to the delight of the fascist movement.

We've not in kansas anymore.

Carol, missed your statement until just now. How right you are. Regional spread, Maine, Vermont, NY, Oregon and so on. Smartest region of the country with the best instincts.
That's where we hear "To hell we won't" first.
It's where the first progressives are coming from.

Absolutely 100 % right! Today I figures=d out my LIHEAP allotment for the winter! I have 20 whole hours of heating! My Farmer friend caled all upset..the Gov is going to take care of us by providing shelters! So we are to stop our own lives and go into the shelters.............
I'm doing a really funny picture of the two of us sprawled out in a shelter. me with my oil paints ( the smelliest ones) her wth her sheep and spinning wheel carrying on our lives as usual.
The whole scenario netted me a calendar sale and part time work in the local flower shop tomorrow!
There's a funeral & she needs extra hands!
Two lovcal women are opening a little shop with hats & other knitted things..........
And check out this website. It's over in Bangor but I love it. This family was featured on TLC.
http://www.wintersfamilystore.com/about_us.htm
QOP

Another place I see coming is California. California has more in common with Asia and more contacts than most of the rest of the state. I think the Governator will be the last Republican governor for a while. People want to look toward the Far East and South to Latin America, not take their cues from old fundies who want to recreate pre 1954 America.

Part of the power grab is out of desperation. America may be a lot of things, but somehow it isn't really embracing the neocon agenda, but just enduring it.

Henry Hyde has died. I never wished him any harm, nor did I want him to die, but I shed no sad tears for him. He was a despicable man and a hypocrite of the first order. He did his part to create the country we have today.

http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2007/11/sweet_extra_former_rep_henry_h.html

Thanks ever so much, Cap'n Sally, for those two posts about the 2008 election. Things get so confused when several people are focusing on various parts of the whole--and I would bring up the blind men and the elephant analogy, but I don't want to go there right now, given how elephants been so maligned by the GOP.

As usual, you've set things back on a firm foundation and given us all much to think about. You're the best.

And, Karen, thanks for appreciating my attempts at humor. I survived a challenging childhood and young adulthood and I couldn't have done it without humor. That's why it ranges from silly all the way through sarcastic, brittle. I try to keep it about mid-range.

QOP, not to worry about shelters there, girl. not with uranus coming up to trine your moon of fantastic solutions. Is your sun in aries? If so jupiter will form a 'benefits from gov't' angle to your sun. If I recall correctly you have gemini rising, on the one hand tho saturn may stick you with temporary limits on your heating, they are temporary with mars retrograding (it's hot spiciness at home) in cancer, you will resolve these things by the end of Jan/early feb..
In addition, you have another type of appointment as an artist/educator which the Feb eclipse will kick off as well, trining your ascendant. Not bad, not bad at all!

Carol, California is our national canary in the coalmine, and gawd are they under seige! They will NOT succumb to tricks. Unlike Florida was with Gore and Ohio was with Kerry. They're the ones to watch given how hip and alert they are, that is not a state for the repugs to be messing with because they are Awake, especially with the Courage Campaign and the high level of activism throughout that state, they are not fools and they will fight. An advantage FL and OH definitely did not have.
Need a training manual? Just watch CA.

lunaoscura, 'sokay about Henry. Maybe he'll emerge again in about a year with a new mommy, possibly a lhasa apso with a flair for accounting.

Thganks for the boost patb. I have venus, mercury & saturn in aries 11th house. Sun Taurus 12th.
MMMMM feb.! Will look forward to it!
QOP

Have this feeling I may have transgressed a few sensibilities in an odd silence. If that is the case I do apologize and hope you know I care very much, and have thought long and deeply like everyone else. We need one another, right? This wonderful generous hospitality Sally provides for which I am very, very grateful.
Maybe I need to pull some punches, none of them are personal and we desperately want the same things. The hope is for clarity and strategies in these unprecedented times. So, I apologize in advance in case that has occurred.

Henry Hyde had died (no poetry intended)
Hyde was well known around Chicago political circles as a bagman and a hypocrite. He had an open palm waiitng to be greased by any Illinois business that wanted him to further their agendas. Saw quite a bit of it when i lived there. I loved the fact that his "morals" dictated his strong anti-abortion stance, but didn't seem to extend to things like accepting kickbacks etc. He should have joined former IL governor Repug George Ryan in jail (Ryan is currently doing a fed stretch for bribe/kickbacks etc)
Swamp

Hi Karen, just went and read the Amy Goodman interview of Naomi Wolf, who I've been following for the past month or so ... thanks for posting it.

For my part, I'm silent right now because I just started my second job and have a lot of work to do to catch up before I can take a breather. I can barely keep up with the news, unless I get up at 4:00 am (which I have). They let the work pile up while waiting for someone to do it for three months. I just don't have the time to post much these days. And no, it isn't for Christmas money or pocket money. Like so many here it's just to stay afloat, or nearly afloat.

Patb, I was just thinking about you and your prior post about being on the outs with your family ... yeah, it happens ... but we find family where we can, and it's not always the biological family that is the most warm and supportive. I love your posts. Didn't think anything was wrong with them at all ... I can't imagine anybody else would have either ... for what it's worth.

Have a lovely evening!

We can chose our friends but not our family!
I also found nothing upsetting about your posts.
This happens sometime............you come here and everybody else is absent, having dinner, at work whatever, and you think "Where IS everyone?
We're here!
QOP

Sally re your request
"I am curious as to what each person's vision is of America for the future."

My pragmatic Scottish nature sees America as it was in the mid 60's during my first visit.
OK there was the Vietnam war and some other ripples but now it's a tsunami.
I still find it difficult to understand how "The land of the brave and the home of the free" has changed so much in the space of my lifetime.

PatB, "YOU GO GIRL!" Speak your mind. The only day I'll EVER be offended by what you say will be when you start spouting freeper BS, and the last I heard, hell wasn't anyhere NEAR freezing over.... ;-D

love y'all!

PS: Shy, feel free to ratchet up the silly anytime you want, I'll be cracking up, I promise. :)

Marta and QOP thanks for the reminder of where the floor is, ya just can't be sure out in the ethers.
Marta, got those points covered at age 24 in spades, my life enriched in ways you can't imagine with 'family' so deep it's in my bone marrow, and a son whose mystery keeps me guessing and so happy he's here there isn't a day that goes by without me giving thanks he's here.
So all that early experience gave me hands-on real experience that was a launching pad for sincere inquiry and a desire to understand, well,
everything and discipline and question myself and be as genuine as possible. Suffering makes a person real and more accessible. I consider myself extremely fortunate in fact. Where it counts.

lunaoscura, I hope your workload lightens very soon, is any of it interesting? You do NOT belong on a hamster-wheel. What would you do if you could in addition to ridding the world of teeming grunts and slobs?

Gawd is it fun to come here! I can thank you a million times, Sally, for being the consumate hostess; and AWers, i can thank YOU for being rowdy family/friends. It often feels like a Saturday night party here!

In answer to Sally's question, which i've had to think about. . . . .i vision a country that shuts corporations out of the government -- by law. No longer afforded the protections of an individual, corporate entities must now operate within a new parameter framed under a law titled Ethical and Responsible Behaviors Act.

I vision a country that wipes the law slate clean that have been created by those corporations.

I vision a country that immediately ceases international acquisition ventures.

I vision a country that immediately ceases ANY practise of torture.

I vision a country that supports universal healthcare.

I vision a country that shares its wealth with its own citizens in whatever form is necessary.

There's so much more. But the first is the most important in order to eliminate all the intentional fraud that has followed.

And on another note. . .

I've notcied a theme with posters -- challenging child and young adult circumstances. I've come to see my own (beatings, etc.) as a gift i gave my own spirit. (Now that took years and years to SEE.) How do each of you view yourselves as a result?

And patb. . .YOU GO GIRL! Talk about ascerbic wit!

patb, I am (drrrummmrolllll!) an artist! Birds of a feather....

Woot! Woot! Rethugs' latest attempt to steal CA electoral votes is, once again, thwarted. No doubt they'll return to the scene of the crime with yet another ruse, but for now We the People win. Praises galore for those watchful, aware patriots.
http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/11/29/late-late-nite/

Karen and patb, that's so interesting, I was thinking exactly the same thing about the "difficult childhood" theme which I also noticed and share, huh! maybe it gives us the gift of rebellion and thinking for ourselves ... after hearing the BS all your childhood, for your own sake you do learn to discern which is truth or not, otherwise you're in deep doo doo.

Shy, thank you for posting that link on the California Electoral votes once again be secured from greedy desperate Repugs. Ole Darrel Izza, crybaby weeper, dirty crook and Rudy Rudy Rudy were at the bottom of it. Crooks, Debra Bowen is fast becoming my hero!

Now there's confusion about what's really going on, Miz Morgana. I'll update as soon as they seem to have sorted it out (check out the "Comments", near the bottom of that article).

If they don't get it for June, I doubt they will try again. November ballot would be too late for it to take effect for this election, and four years ahead would give it time to be repealed before the next.

Shy thanks for the update. I scrolled down through the comments, then emailed Debra Bowen using the online form and added my two cents worth.

Last night I was reading an interpretation of the US Natal Chart by Nicholas Campion, mostly focused on the Uranus transits to the US Moon (which has coincided with the US going to War held true for Afghanistan/Iraq). He noted however that the Saturn in the 10th House square the US Sun indicated that the People would be confrontational, uncooperative and work against the Sun. Gave me a boost that We the People can rock the boat.

Karen, here's an article just for you, about what you posted earlier, and I agree 10,000%.

http://www.thomhartmann.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=183&Itemid=38&mosmsg=Thanks%20for%20your%20vote%21

love y'all
G

There's a (breaking) hostage situation at a Clinton Campaign office (she's not there):

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/

Did anyone catch the time of the Hillary Campaign office hostage situation? I"ve got a rough guesstimate 1:50 pm ish est ?

Miz Morgana, headline over at DU says about 1:00 pm.

Thanks Shy, I'll fix my chart.

Did ya see where Romney had all his offices locked down. What a hoot.

Interesting. Also read where Hillary showed up at Rick Warren's evangelical church in the OC and got a standing ovation. My paraphrase, he's saying evangelicals are wed to a political party, but to the person, 'the born again' and cited Carter.

Fat fingers. Evangelicals are NOT wed to a political party. They are purple.

Holy wilting anticlimactic Jeez. I heard a guy dressed in a giant turkey suit showed up at exactly the same moment as the guy dressed up as a suicide bomber and tried to squeeze in the front door at the same time. Slapstick scene!
Well, the guy in the suicide bomber suit popped in, and since he wasn't all bad and it's christmas and everything, let the pregnant woman and the lady with the baaaaby go.
~(pause while you get a tissue)~
Then the suicide bomber said the we really need the goverment's protection lots more, and that he always gets the blues during heartbreak and depression season and that he was paid to show up at Hillary's office and he thought it would be something to get him off the couch, what the hell....

Long story short: Absolutely nothing can be done to make Hillary interesting.

Nice try.
(that's my take on this)

NewsTarget.com printable article
Originally published November 28 2007

Senate Bill 1959 to Criminalize Thoughts, Blogs, Books and Free Speech Across America

by Mike Adams

The end of Free Speech in America has arrived at our doorstep. It's a new law called the Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act, and it is worded in a clever way that could allow the U.S. government to arrest and incarcerate any individual who speaks out against the Bush Administration, the war on Iraq, the Department of Homeland Security or any government agency (including the FDA). The law has already passed the House on a traitorous vote of 405 to 6, and it is now being considered in the Senate where a vote is imminent. All over the internet, intelligent people who care about freedom are speaking out against this extremely dangerous law: Philip Giraldi at the Huffington Post, Declan McCullagh at CNET's News.com, Kathryn Smith at OpEdNews.com, and of course Alex Jones at PrisonPlanet.com

This bill is the beginning of the end of Free Speech in America. If it passes, all the information sources you know and trust could be shut down and their authors imprisoned. NewsTarget could be taken offline and I could be arrested as a "terrorist." Jeff Rense at www.Rense.com could be labeled a "terrorist" and arrested. Byron Richards, Len Horowitz, Paul Craig Roberts, Greg Palast, Ron Paul and even Al Gore could all be arrested, silenced and incarcerated. This is not an exaggeration. It is a literal reading of the law, which you can check yourself here: http://thomas.loc.gov/home/gpoxmlc110/h1955_rfs.xml

The bill states:

‘...ideologically based violence’ means the use, planned use, or threatened use of force or violence by a group or individual to promote the group or individual’s political, religious, or social beliefs...

http://www.newstarget.com/z022308.html

Nays 6

Abercrombie
Costello
Duncan
Flake
Kucinich
Rohrabacher
QOP

Did anyone get that H.R. 1955 was written by none other than California Democrat Jane Harman? Even here we have idiots. It's not the people who grab and crave the power that we need to watch out for. It's those who enable them through passivity, gullibility, naivetee and just plain stupidity because they allow Bush to terrorize them into submission. Bin Laden should want such power.

'kay, wrong about the guy with the fireworks belt, but Hillary still isn't interesting.

Lunaoscuara, Jane Harman is a wolf in sheeps clothing ... sometimes they're called democrats. It's time to stop thinking they're idiots .... nah, don't buy it. Once, maybe, reiteratively, nah! They're just part of the process. Labels are increasingly meaningless. Show me. That's how I'll know you (not you, hon), the other "you".

Ooops, Lunaoscura, sorry, I misspelled your name! Blame it on the wine ...

Hr1955 'ay? Our situation is a lot like the ever-increasing s l o w tilt of the Titanic just before it sank. Even while it was happening, passengers had that little hope and that disbelief the angle would actually reach 90-degrees sharp. Even then, they probably thought of ways to adjust themselves to that angle and that the ship really wouldn't sink...it would float straight up until help came.
The rest is history.

Yuppers,
And Firefox & Safari have both been unable to establish a connection with smirkingchimp.com,since dinner last night.
QOP

This situation/climate/planetary arrangement,is making American's NUTZ!
I went to the Huffpost, nothing to read there! Either spewing crazinnness or refuting it.
But for one post: Chavez threatens to cut off oil delivery to the USA Mon. if we don't stop interferring & trying to influence the outcome of his election!
The only thing that made contectual sense!
I Think the Titanic just listed about another 30 degrees!
QOP

wv, thanks for that link. And Charles, that was one of the best articles written on the scandalous use of personhood by corporations. Thank you both!

I'm still searching and have not yet found the small print governing intrastate travel that is also making it's way to the senate. I'll just keep trying. I thought it was tied to HR1955, but didin't find there.

HR1955 also made its way through the House by stealth. No media mention before, one story on NPR after which my husband heard. Per usual, these assaults on the constitution occur when a compliant public is otherwise engaged. Now our compliance will be mandatory under threat of incarceration, torture and death. Yet, Yet!

This is a large country. And, fascism fails time after time. I have no doubt that each and every one on this board will continue to fight, in their own way, to honor and hold high the light of the constitution -- the undiluted one :)

I'm dreaming of a Green Christmas (the series)

I put paper in the recycling bin where I live. I save old typing and flyer paper that has been used on one side, and use it for printing things that I don't send, or scrap paper for notes. I remember that long ago you could take old typewriting paper and turn it into a scratch pad.

A Christmas find: about a year ago I went to an old second-hand store and found perfectly good Christmas cards. The people there practically gave them to me. Try it at your local Salvation Army, freecycle, whatever. And if you have Christmas cards you will never use to send, put them on a door or over the mantlepiece for decoration. They can also be used for ornaments too.

You can also download or use the holiday graphics in your computer to make cards and flyers. Combined with the use of recycled paper, you can have a frugal and green Christmas, printing out only what you will send or need.

The same suggestions go for gift wrap. Use the old stuff, or take the old stuff and decorate with it as well.

I've found lots of Christmas stuff at the Salvation Army, et al from time to time. Old ornaments, Christmas cards, et cetera. Take a look also at freecycle. Some people get rid of old Xmas stuff because they want an upgrade, or they are downsizing their celebration because the kids aren't around. I've gotten a couple of Xmas trees from time to time because of that.

Crafters: I've gotten tons of yarn from those places too. Look for projects and their kits that were never finished-they are all over the place. Indeed, I have an old afghan that was made mostly out of small balls of old yarn with the only real purchases being the black and white yarn that connected the squares.

One caution I would make would be not to buy the lights just in case they are frayed or damaged, But if electricity is not involved, no problem.

Karen, Greg Palast has said, pointing his finger at the camera that Alex Jones is pretty much full of s*** at his 3 websites Prisonplanet, AlexJones and the other one. I really recommend avoiding those sites because they are a category of the "sub-fear mongers", unresearched garbage with just enough context for people to buy it.
What a creep.

Loved Ones, I have been illing and not able to sit up at the desk but I can this morning. Oh blessed adreneline.
I had noticed a few days back that a couple of sites were blocked by Firefox. I was sick and unable to follow through but I wanted to ask if others were finding the same blocks.
And screw Jane Harmon-what about the other 400 plus who voted with her? Is this a bad dream? A fever dream? Will I find my beloved reality when I get over this virus?
Well I will keep coming back until that dread time when I get that funny page saying that I can't be connected to my desired site.

Clymela, hope you feel better soon. Yes, screw Jane Harman AND the 400 others who voted with her. Time to take names.

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_joel_s___071130_robert_f__kennedy_2c_j.htm

Lest we forget ...

http://www.opednews.com/maxwrite/link.php?id=46586

Karen-I so agree about Alex Jones and also The Truth Seeker with their constant ramblings about the Illuminati. Besides we don't need scaremongers when we have Jane Harmon and the US Congress

If ever you had doubts about stolen elections in the U.S., here's the manual ... THIS IS HOW THEY DO IT.

http://www.opednews.com/maxwrite/link.php?id=46577

http://tinyurl.com/2b2s37

Joe Biden - Impeach Cheney First

Everytime i log on, i ask. . ."Where's Pat C?" and keep forgetting to post it.

But HERE YOU ARE! YAHOO!

What distresses me about those sites is how they somehow end up blaming it on the "Illuminati" without ever defining what they are. They try to say Masons, but the Masons I hear about are mostly aging guys who are into some sort of Esoteric fraternity. Either that, or they end up blaming Jews for all the evil in the world. (google Rothschild).

I happen to believe things are far more nuanced than that. Some of the bad things are as much inertia as active controversy. People do bad things because that's always the way it has been done, and few can see a different way is possible.

QOP, I can't get smirkingchimp.com on Safari, Firefox, Netscape or Explorer. They're server might be down.

clymela, hanging out with those little typhoid marys are you? The 11-year-old urping twinnages?
Since mars retro isn't letting any of us get anywhere fast, that means it's time to cozy up and let the world go backwards for awhile.
Do take your time, warm toddies and books to fall asleep over.
We've got this Alchemical process going on for the world: The worst sumbitches in the world rousing in us a huge leap in consciousness, the best in us. Beginnning to think it is actually true that without these unspeakable people we'd
be unconsciously lazing down the river into oblivion. A definite confrontation in consciousness for us idiot humans. All these little subtle undeveloped places in us, ie., how easily we fall for suggestion (!) and repetition (!) and make it fact, how we catch a collective Virus that spreads from human to human for the purpose of evolving Antibodies.
We're the Antibodies.
Get better sweatheart, our hearts are with you.

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/29063

The Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act: A Tutorial in Orwellian Newspeak
By Robert Weitzel

“Political language has to consist largely of euphemisms . . . and sheer cloudy vagueness.”
- George Orwell -

H.R 1955: the Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007 recently passed by the House—a companion bill is in the Senate—is barely one sentence old before its Orwellian moment:

It begins, “AN ACT - To prevent homegrown terrorism, and for other purposes.”

Those whose pulse did not quicken at “other purposes” have probably not read George Orwell’s essay, “Politics and the English Language,” or they voted for the other George both times.

Orwell’s jeremiad on the corruption of the English language and its corrosive effect on a democracy was written two years before his novel 1984 spelled out in chilling detail the danger of Newspeak, which renders citizens incapable of independent thought by depriving them of the words necessary to form ideas other than those promulgated by the state.

After its opening “tribute” to Orwell, H.R 1955 is strategically peppered with Newspeak regarding the establishment of a National Commission and university-based Centers of Excellence to “examine and report upon the fact and causes of violent radicalization, homegrown terrorism, and ideologically based violence in the United States” and to make legislative recommendations for combating it.

The “sheer cloudy vagueness” of H.R 1955, as well as its terror factor, may account for its bipartisan 404-6 House vote but how, in an era informed by the Bush-Cheney administration’s egregious assault on the Bill of Rights, can the phrase “other purposes” fail to raise the “National Terror Alert” from its current threat level of “elevated” to “severe.”

more...

THis is part of the article that I linked above. I know not everyone has the time to go to all the links but this excerpt is a good thing to know when connecting dots.

[snip]
A clue to future “other purposes” may lie in the Act’s parentage. The proud House “mother” of the Patriot Act’s evil twin is Rep. Jane Harmon (D-CA), chair of the Homeland Security Intelligence Subcommittee. Rep. Harmon has admitted to a long and productive relationship with the RAND Corporation, a California based think-tank with close ties to the military-industrial-intelligence complex. RAND’s 2005 study, “Trends in Terrorism,” contains a chapter titled, “Homegrown Terrorist Threats to the United States.” Is this Act a bastard child?

Keep in mind that the RAND Corporation was set up in 1946 by Army Air Force General Henry “Hap” Arnold as “Project RAND” sponsored by the Douglas Aircraft Company. Keep in mind also that Donald Rumsfeld was its chairman from 1981 to 1986 and Lewis “Scooter” Libby, Dick Cheney’s felonious former chief of staff, and Condoleezza Rice were trustees. Enough said!

RAND maintains that “homegrown terrorism” will not be the result of jihadist sleeper cells. Rather, it will result from anti-globalists and radical environmentalists who “challenge the intrinsic qualities of capitalism, charging that in the insatiable quest for growth and profit, the philosophy is serving to destroy the world’s ecology, indigenous cultures, and individual welfare.”

Further, RAND claims that anti-globalists and radical environmentalists “exist in much the same operational environment as al Qaida” and pose “a clear threat to private-sector corporate interests, especially large multinational business.” Therein lies the real “other purposes.”

Predictably then, H.R. 1955 is not about protecting homegrown Americans. That protection is only incidental to its “other purposes” of protecting homegrown corporate interest and its unconscionable manipulation of the American political process to fill its coffers. Any thought or speech or action— however protected it might be by the Bill of Rights—that threatens corporate hegemony and profit will no doubt suffer the “other purposes” clause of the Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act.

more...

Here's the link again
http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/29063

Urps, that is Sweetheart!..get better (even tho our hearts are indeed literally sweating).

Thanks so much for the encouragement.
Do any of you have a sinking feeling that we are even as we speak identified as anti-globilists and radical environmentalists? I thought I came across something like that. I am not surprised by the Rand Corp but the realization that all of the law makers save the blessed six are going along with this-now that has me frightened

Speaking truth is definitely a radical act. And speaking it to power gets you fired a lot. That's the story of my life. People are incredibly attached to their lies, even when they know they're lies. If you speak truth to a dysfunctional family, especially if its yours, they'll do whatever it takes to punish you. In the workplace they marginalize you into looking for another job or fire you.

If the day comes that speaking truth gets one arrested then I expect I'll have to add getting arrested to my perp sheet along with fired and punished.

lunaoscura. . .HR1955 was probably not read by more than half of the house members. Most reps, in fact, are offshoots of those same corporate interests that now hold sway over our representative form of government. Many are subtly (or blatantly) angling for well-paying positions after their so-called service. This has become routine.

The shortsighted nature of this and other bills cementing our feet in fascism is incomprehensible to me. Those shoving through these horrendous laws WILL be affected by their actions if not soon, than in the very near future.

I find laughable the accusation that those opposing the war are calling for isolationism -- a term now drips with cynicism -- like "liberal." What's laughable is the fact that those who embrace wealth and power as the only true measure of a person WILL and ARE isolating themselves behind closed gates. Another form of doublespeak.

And Carol, i believe references to the illuminati, et al carries some aspect of truth. However, it is incumbent upon each entity to be as responsible as possible for their acts, words and behavior.

Throughout the history of our limited existence here, there have been those who manipulate and those manipulated. Of all those machinations fear is a great conquistador. What would you do, what would i do to save our children? Predators play on that fear -- and there are plenty of predators out there right now, illuminati or not.

Had a VERY interesting conversation witha sane & well adjusted conservative in the library this AM. Most a typical. After an uncomplimentary satement about Rudy, ( his) I asked him who among he conservatives was he for. He hung his head kind of ashamed and said Huckabee. ( Humility from a conservative? A-typical! Lets all him a sane American!) Wemetoncommon ground whenI saidIewas a progressive but had some stong conservative ideas ( which I do)He was also familiar with the IIluminati placing the correct figuers among them!
And departed in conscensious, with him interested in sending his 14 year old daughter to my painting classes when I start them again! ( He admired my lobster dinner painting with the ramekin of melted butter, bottle of pink chablis and the yellow pitcher of lupine & lilac blossoms, against a window framing a typical Maine foggy day, with spruce trees of course.) that is hanging in the library!
A very encourageing encounter.!
QOP

NOW it looks like there may indeed have been a little more we need to know about the so-called "suicide bomber" at Hillary's HQ.
Maybe that "little more" has to do with HR1955 AND HR1959, NOW I'M REALLY ANGRY!

They must think we're dumb as DOORKNOBS!!!

Just in case you thought Hillary Clinton was "better than the alternative" OBVIOUSLY she is NO DIFFERENT THAN THE ALTERNATIVE.

(sorry for the caps folks, but this is b***s***
to the ceiling).

Setting up the next administration….

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/120107Y.shtml

White House to Cut Anti-Terror Funds

Homeland Security grants may be cut by more than half, documents show.

Patb, I didn't understand your post about the "suicide bomber" and what it has to do the the HR ...?

Oh, Karen, this is just great. Fascist stealing of the entire government and they STILL don't read the bills. Except Kucinich (It means Fiengold, pure of soul didn't read it either, is it because he thought he could kick back because he trusts Harman?).

That's it. We NEED a revolution and it needs intelligent planning. From this very day.

Marta, that was a setup to get us to swallow whole the need for doublethink "protection" as stated in the 1955 & 1959 bills that just passed.
THE SAME DAY.

Hillary is complicit as hell with this whole takeover, that witch!

PatC, these state grants for terrorist preparedness has been a hallucination from the beginning anyway. Gee, all those 'skymarshals' and airport security personnel began losing funding in 2002, just magically evaporated.

Because the the only terrorists we need concern ourselves with sleep on nice soft beds in the WH,
the senate and congress.

Homeland Security grants may be cut in half.
So, does that mean they are trying to scare everybody so they'll put pressure on Congress to up the grants so they'll then have half again as much as originally appropriated?
Or, does that mean they figure they've got local law enforcement geared up sufficient to take care of those who might take to the streets?
Or, does that mean they're taking half the funds appropriated and will shift them to use to hire more Blackwater?
Or, something else entirely? Any ideas?

I think all of that is possible, but I also think it's not something that would be done if Bush were running for a second term this time. I think they will do all they can to cripple any Democratic administration.

I was just wondering out loud with my librarian friend. ( closely associated with the Town Office & Town Manager/Police Chief,) where would the "shelter" be located would we leave the fire engines parked outside? or heat the Town Hall ( after Christmas it is closed down to save money on heat.) Would the funds to heat it come out of the Town budget? the state budget or Homeland security funds? Guess not!
Sounds like a lack of planning to me..............
QOP

shylurker, I think it's because these anti-terrorism funds have been a ruse from the beginning. There is no terrorism to guard against because it isn't real.
States have been issued funds that have not been used, east coast ports have been standing open just has they always have after 6 years, sold as a commodity to Dubai whether we voted against it or not. Funding cuts to airports happened a year after 9-11 and is nothing but a cover for a bedtime story about the boogeyman.
State to state, money has been going into pockets, not programs. Cop training has been against us, not terrorists.
Just more lies.

So you knew this one was coming, given the season. Well, it's here:
http://www.news10.net/display_story.aspx?storyid=35745

Ray Merriman sees a dynasty pattern that will end in 2011. Hope he's wrong, because if Hillary gets in, that means a repuke in 2012 since an incumbent doesn't have a competitor from their own party.

Go see his 12/3 article at http://stariq.com

The smirkingchimp site was hacked. A note come up when you go to it.

http://smirkingchimp.com/

This is based on my usual simplistic astrology – but I was thinking about the fact that Jupiter will be in Aquarius in 2 years so I looked ahead to 2009 and saw that during the second half, Jupiter and Neptune will be playing over the U.S. moon, the sign of "the people." I don't know where Chiron is at that point, but it certainly sounds like this could be a positive thing in regard to the lot of "the people." I remember looking at the 2004 Democratic candidate's charts and saw that both Kerry and his wife had Leo and Aquarius, respectively (I believe Jupiter and the moon, respectively) in or near that degree. I haven't checked this time around but I think it was talked about here already which candidates have good aspects to the U.S. moon (Obama?). Anyway, although I know that one association with Neptune is illusion/deception, its higher octave meaning is the higher level of spirituality. I don’t know what house the moon is in or the aspects, but wouldn't it be great if the positive elements of Jupiter & Neptune do their job of uplifting and uniting us? It would also be interesting to see how this fits with other countries and regions, especially the so-called "hot spots."

At the moment the N. node is transiting my sun...if anyone knows the effects that, please share. I would think it would have something to do with actualizing my potential and positive karma. I've been attending to my husband who is healing from his surgery. This is his second hospitalization this month and both times I've "lived" at the hospital much of the time. (In fact, this is the first time I've checked the blog in almost a week and am glad to have mostly caught up on the posts.) Anyway, although his recovery is not without incident, pain and discomfort, he is really doing well with his main healing and everything is happening on track. As for me, since I’ve been here so much, I’m exposed to life & death situations, and have had lots of interaction with "healers" (I've met many good ones - it's feels so good to say that, although we've had to be our own advocates as there have been many information gaps and possible "mistakes" that cause unneeded pain), as well as lots of people who've been visiting and emailing (my husband wrote to every one first, sending them regular updates, etc. - he has a strong 11th house) but my "normal" life is currently on hold, it's like I'm in a different reality for a while...also related to retrograde Mars because I have 10 degrees of Cancer ascending. And the medical interaction? Well, that’s also a reflection of Jupiter t. my 6th house, as well as Pluto.

Really enjoying the posts here and one of these days will be making the tonic. Meanwhile, I’m very grateful that I’m mainly healthy. In fact, I donated blood and my hermaticrit (red cells) was 46, apparently showing good health. My husband’s hematicrit is down in the high 20’s.

Namaste,
Sharon

I must be missing something somewhere. A cursory review of bill 1955- 1959 seems to do nothing more than to authorize and establish a commission to study and review methods to prevent and thwart homegrown terrorism etc. It specifically states: "The Department of Homeland Security’s efforts to prevent ideologically based violence and homegrown terrorism as described herein shall not violate the constitutional rights, civil rights, or civil liberties of United States citizens or lawful permanent residents."
The bill does not give the Commission any enforcement powers.

None of this is to say that if this becomes law it cant be abused, but on the face of it these dire predictions are unfounded.

Is that you Marta? here's two refs re bills:

http://afds.org/?g=node/29063

http://newstarget.com/z022308.html

There's another at youtube and will try to find it again.

Secret move to upgrade air base for Iran attack plans

IAN BRUCE, Defence Correspondent
October 29 2007

Comment | Read Comments (89)

The US is secretly upgrading special stealth bomber hangars on the British island protectorate of Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean in preparation for strikes on Iran's nuclear facilities, according to military sources.

The improvement of the B1 Spirit jet infrastructure coincides with an "urgent operational need" request for £44m to fit racks to the long-range aircraft.

That would allow them to carry experimental 15-ton Massive Ordnance Penetrator (MOP) bombs designed to smash underground bunkers buried as much as 200ft beneath the surface through reinforced concrete.

advertisementOne MOP - known as Big Blu - has already been tested successfully at the US Air Force proving ground at White Sands in New Mexico. Tenders have now gone out for a production model to be ready for use in the next nine months.

The "static tunnel lethality test" on March 14 completely destroyed a mock-up of the kind of underground facility used to house Iran's nuclear centrifuge arrays at Natanz, about 150 miles from the capital, Tehran.

http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/foreign/display.var.1792035.0.0.php

December 2, 2007

Op-Ed Columnist

Who’s Afraid of Barack Obama?

By FRANK RICH
JUST 24 hours after Hillary Clinton mowed down a skeptical Katie Couric with her certitude that she would win the Democratic nomination — “It will be me!” — her husband showed exactly how she could lose it.

By telling an Iowa audience on Tuesday night that he had opposed the Iraq war “from the beginning,” Bill Clinton committed a double pratfall. Not only did he refocus attention on his wife’s most hazardous issue, Iraq, just as it was receding as the nation’s Topic A, but he also revived unhappy memories of the truth-dodging nadirs of the Clinton White House.

Whatever his caveats, Mr. Clinton did not explicitly oppose the Iraq war from the beginning. But Al Gore did unequivocally and loudly in a public speech before the beginning, as did an obscure Illinois state senator named Barack Obama. What if Mrs. Clinton had led an insurrection against the war authorization in the Senate? Might she have helped impede America’s rush into one of the greatest fiascos in our history?

That history cannot be rewritten in any case, by Bill Clinton or anyone else. But future history is yet to be made. In the year to come, it will be written by the candidates and the voters, not by those journalists who, as the old saw has it, lay down history’s first draft.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/02/opinion/02rich.html?hp=&pagewanted=print

December 2, 2007

Op-Ed Columnist

O Brother, Where Art Thou?

By MAUREEN DOWD
Customarily in presidential races, Americans seek a patriarchal figure, a strong parent to protect the house from invaders and financial turbulence.

But with Barack Obama, this dynamic seems reversed.

He seems more like a child prodigy. Those enraptured with his gifts urge him on, like anxious parents, trying to pull that sustained, dazzling performance out of him that they believe he’s capable of; they are willing to put up with the prodigy’s occasional listlessness and crabbiness, his flights of self-regard and self-righteousness. Despite his uneven efforts and distaste for the claws of competition, they can see he is a golden child, one who moves, speaks, smiles and thinks with amazing grace.

His advisers and fund-raisers have pressed him to go fortissimo. Many voters with great expectations are hovering, hoping for a crescendo.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/02/opinion/02dowd.html?hp=&pagewanted=print

Naomi Wolf's 10 steps to dictatorship is getting picked up by The Guardian.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2064157,00.html

Fascist America, in 10 easy steps

From Hitler to Pinochet and beyond, history shows there are certain steps that any would-be dictator must take to destroy constitutional freedoms. And, argues Naomi Wolf, George Bush and his administration seem to be taking them all

Tuesday April 24, 2007
The Guardian

Last autumn, there was a military coup in Thailand. The leaders of the coup took a number of steps, rather systematically, as if they had a shopping list. In a sense, they did. Within a matter of days, democracy had been closed down: the coup leaders declared martial law, sent armed soldiers into residential areas, took over radio and TV stations, issued restrictions on the press, tightened some limits on travel, and took certain activists into custody.

They were not figuring these things out as they went along. If you look at history, you can see that there is essentially a blueprint for turning an open society into a dictatorship. That blueprint has been used again and again in more and less bloody, more and less terrifying ways. But it is always effective. It is very difficult and arduous to create and sustain a democracy - but history shows that closing one down is much simpler. You simply have to be willing to take the 10 steps.
As difficult as this is to contemplate, it is clear, if you are willing to look, that each of these 10 steps has already been initiated today in the United States by the Bush administration.

more...

Unbeleavable

US says it has right to kidnap British citizens
David Leppard

AMERICA has told Britain that it can “kidnap” British citizens if they are wanted for crimes in the United States.

A senior lawyer for the American government has told the Court of Appeal in London that kidnapping foreign citizens is permissible under American law because the US Supreme Court has sanctioned it.

The admission will alarm the British business community after the case of the so-called NatWest Three, bankers who were extradited to America on fraud charges. More than a dozen other British executives, including senior managers at British Airways and BAE Systems, are under investigation by the US authorities and could face criminal charges in America.

Until now it was commonly assumed that US law permitted kidnapping only in the “extraordinary rendition” of terrorist suspects.
Related Links

* NatWest trio allowed time to pay off debts

The American government has for the first time made it clear in a British court that the law applies to anyone, British or otherwise, suspected of a crime by Washington.

Legal experts confirmed this weekend that America viewed extradition as just one way of getting foreign suspects back to face trial. Rendition, or kidnapping, dates back to 19th-century bounty hunting and Washington believes it is still legitimate.

The US government’s view emerged during a hearing involving Stanley Tollman, a former director of Chelsea football club and a friend of Baroness Thatcher, and his wife Beatrice.

The Tollmans, who control the Red Carnation hotel group and are resident in London, are wanted in America for bank fraud and tax evasion. They have been fighting extradition through the British courts.

During a hearing last month Lord Justice Moses, one of the Court of Appeal judges, asked Alun Jones QC, representing the US government, about its treatment of Gavin, Tollman’s nephew. Gavin Tollman was the subject of an attempted abduction during a visit to Canada in 2005.

Jones replied that it was acceptable under American law to kidnap people if they were wanted for offences in America. “The United States does have a view about procuring people to its own shores which is not shared,” he said.

He said that if a person was kidnapped by the US authorities in another country and was brought back to face charges in America, no US court could rule that the abduction was illegal and free him: “If you kidnap a person outside the United States and you bring him there, the court has no jurisdiction to refuse — it goes back to bounty hunting days in the 1860s.”

Mr Justice Ouseley, a second judge, challenged Jones to be “honest about [his] position”.

Jones replied: “That is United States law.”.....
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article2982640.ece

The news is reporting that Chvez failed that the vote was 49-51%. sounds so familiar

Clymela, I posted this above, but don't know if anybody had time to read it ... re the news that Chavez failed ... It's a CIA paper that discusses how to derail the Chavez referendum (if you want to take it a step farther, I would guess that it's the game plan that's used for elections here in the U.S.).

http://www.opednews.com/maxwrite/link.php?id=46577

clymela, are you suggesting that somehow the u.s. had something to do with that equation? How would that be possible one wonders.
Thinking that over last night, lifetime power is really not a good idea for any one individual, given that power corrupts absolutely. (our 'supreme' court of the supremely ignorant, Idi Amin, etc.)

Then one wonders, when it comes to the u.s. why other countries allow the u.s. to have this officious propriety over their national affairs.
Why does the world community allow this arrogant presumptive bullying by the u.s. and not fight back?
Chavez is right. The UN should relocate to south america.

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/la-et-rutten1dec01,0,4122002.column?coll=la-home-center

From the Los Angeles Times

Regarding Media / Tim Rutten

CNN: Corrupt News Network

A self-serving agenda was set for the Republican presidential debates.
Tim Rutten
Regarding Media

December 1, 2007

THE United States is at war in the Middle East and Central Asia, the economy is writhing like a snake with a broken back, oil prices are relentlessly climbing toward $100 a barrel and an increasing number of Americans just can't afford to be sick with anything that won't be treated with aspirin and bed rest.

So, when CNN brought the Republican presidential candidates together this week for what is loosely termed a "debate," what did the country get but a discussion of immigration, Biblical inerrancy and the propriety of flying the Confederate flag?

In fact, this most recent debacle masquerading as a presidential debate raises serious questions about whether CNN is ethically or professionally suitable to play the political role the Democratic and Republican parties recently have conceded it.

Selecting a president is, more than ever, a life and death business, and a news organization that consciously injects itself into the process, as CNN did by hosting Wednesday's debate, incurs a special responsibility to conduct itself in a dispassionate and, most of all, disinterested fashion. When one considers CNN's performance, however, the adjectives that leap to mind are corrupt and incompetent.

Well I cringed when I heard of Chavez's plan to get full control and possibly stay in power indefinately. I cringed because I know that in history many inovative leaders have ended up as dictators after fighting the regressive (US?) forces for so long. I know that he has every reason to be beyond paranoid.
and well,patb,I'm just sayin sure seems like I heard this before. I mean 49 to 51??

What if heads of countries had nothing more at their disposal than to "spray" to mark their perceived territory like other animals (kitties, for example).
Then we could just laugh at them.

There's something alchemical in all this. New World order/world without boundaries.
Ultimate evil/creates ultimate good.
Ultimate oppression/creates ultimate freedom.
Ultimate hate/creates ultimate love.
Ultimate cruelty/ultimte kindness.

Great example I perceived back in 2000 with bush's doublethink statement "I'm a uniter, not a divider".
Well, he is uniting us, is he not?
The MSM's attempt to put our nation to sleep, people struggling to be aware.

This is an alchemical process alright.

More gay men describe sexual encounters with U.S. Sen. Craig

Allegations made since news of the Minneapolis case broke lend weight to rumors about Craig.

David Phillips. Mike Jones. Greg Ruth. Tom Russell.

Four gay men, willing to put their names in print and whose allegations can't be disproved, have come forward since news of U.S. Sen. Larry Craig's guilty plea. They say they had sex with Craig or that he made a sexual advance or that he paid them unusual attention.

They are telling their stories now because they are offended by Craig's denials, including his famous statement, "I am not gay, I never have been gay." Those words, spoken on live national TV on Aug. 28, are now memorialized on a just-released-for-Christmas Talking Senator Larry Craig Action Figure.

http://www.idahostatesman.com/eyepiece/story/226703.html

wv, re this Craig idiocy. Religion: fav pastime of the depraved. A new sick sad f*** story of the week..a new weekly scalping by some senator, some congressman, stealing untold millions.
The more we hear, sensory adaptation takes over and is the expected norm (!). Not much of a reaction anymore, are we noticing that, too? We ought to or it becomes ingrained in our u.s. collective psyche, especially when consequences don't happen or they quietly disappear.

How about less of these stories, they're not good for us with all the other urgent priorities facing us.

Do you know that Norm Chomsky went down there and did an interview for Venezuelan tv? and that there were plenty of international coverage:

Here's stuff from my Kos diary:

http://www.vicuk.org/

In addition to the term-limits issue there are other issues as well according to MSNBC: the work day will be reduced to six hours a day for the same day, increasing social security benefits, and creating communal property.

There are 350 articles in the Constitution. 33 of them deal with the Chavez proposals. There are 39 proposals as such by the National Assembly.

http://radiovenezuelaenvivo.blogspot.com

http://venezuelanalysis.com/

In addition to the term-limits issue there are other issues as well according to MSNBC: the work
day will be reduced to six hours a day for the same day, increasing social security benefits, and creating communal property.

There are 350 articles in the Constitution. 33 of them deal with the Chavez proposals. There are 39 proposals as such by the National Assembly.

Some of the details are here:

Details ofthe Constitution

The voting age will be reduced to 16, the work week to 36 hours, the indigenous people will be recognized as part of the society and so forth. Too much to post here, and it should be carefully read. Another reform that has already taken place is that mothers now get mother's pay $185 per month.

One thing is sure, the Venezuelans should be allowed to settle this one on their own without the CIA and others trying to interfere.
should be allowed to settle this one on their own without the CIA and others trying to interfere.

Chavez to me is nothing for than the other side of the same coin. I've learned that left wing people can be just as dogmatic and unreasonable as right wing people. Their egos can develope to be just as huge and destructive. I guess it's right back to the old wisdom nothing to extreme and everything in moderation is what works best for all of us.

Chavez has, as they say, jumped the shark.

Pat C & Carol, Wouldn't it be a heaving sigh of relief if families were valued? Here in the u.s. you're treated with contempt if you're not separated from your babies at 6 weeks old...like bonding human beings are self-indulgence. How disgusting are this country's values. Chavez's supports of ALL it's vulnerable members is life affirming, comforting and praiseworthy beyond measure. Heck, Germans and Russians get 6 weeks vacation even if they're waitresses!

Regardless of the need for moderation, 2 sides to every coin, etc., (recall checks & balances and Habaeus Corpus)some jerks will always grope for being the biggest ego of all. Chavez for life? No way. Supreme Court justices for life? No way.

Regard for life should be central and not enter the undertow of cynicism.
We are the ones who ought to be in charge of our own wellbeing as individuals and as collectives, and make centers of power smaller and more local rather than in the hands of a few real or potential Saturns Eating Their Own Children...which always seems an expected development.

We could afford all this on the money we now spend on Iraq and the Missle Project, and still have enough for needed defense.

I have been thinking about Pluto in Capricorn in a different light. Chavez deals with fellow nations in a barter system exchanging goods instead of currency, and his new "Bank of the South" idea. Pluto rules mass wealth, and the Industrial Revolution emerged during Pluto in Capricorn, and was enhanced when Uranus first knowingly came into Capricorn. Now, a full cycle later, it's now time to rethink some ideas about economics from back then. Given currency instability, how long will it be before we barter again and have to pool resources? While I was taught that barter was primitive, one thing about barter is that there is intrinic value in the exchange. Someone who swaps a bushel of corn for a bed frame is exchanging something each party wants and needs. The first person can sleep in the bed, and the other person can eat the corn, and both items are always of some value regardless of exchange rates.

Chavez could be showing the way on some of this stuff-by forcing us to rethink some of our assumptions about development and economics.

John Edwards Friday speech in New Hampshire:

http://www.motherjones.com/mojoblog/archives/2007/11/6374_edwards_message.html

You have to decide what kind of person you want as your next president. Do you want someone who is going to pretend that wall around Washington isn’t there, or defend the people who helped build it? Or do you want someone who is going to lead with conviction and tell you the truth, and have a little backbone?

Do you want someone who is going to hope that the people who spent millions of dollars and decades building that wall, and have billions more invested in keeping it up, are going to be willing to compromise, to take it down voluntarily? Or do you want someone who is going to stand up to those people and fight for your interests, when the chips are down, when your backs are against the wall, every single day?

We have a choice in this election. We can keep trying to shout over that wall. We can keep trying to knock out a chink here and there, to punch little holes in it and hope our voices get through. We can settle for baby steps, half-measures and incremental change, and try to inch our way over that wall and toward a better future. Or we can be bold and knock it down.

patb, I think people should live and let live, staying out of eachother's business. We are all individuals and our destinies are played out on an individual basis. All of us are valuable. All of us are children of god, and all that supports our existence is equally valuable. That's the light I would like to see dawn.

This is a very interesting article, but long.

http://www.skirsch.com/politics/president/comparison.htm

Who would make the best President?

Pat C, sweet.
In the alchemical process the intensity reaches it's most critical mass before that spot of light on the horizon.
Question is, just HOW intense.

Oooh! Carol!!! Your thoughts on Chavez and commerce and Pluto in Capricorn just turned on a light in my mind and my heart.I have been so bummed out thinking of conservative gone insane that I couldn't imagine something crative. Your thoughts really lighted up my heart and mind.
Pat B I so agree with you about the lack of family values in this society.
What a dynamite site this has been lately

Don't know if any of you still watch network news, but since I don't subscribe to cable or satellite TV, I usually watch BBC on the PBS station, and World News on one of the networks. Starting tomorrow night(Tuesday)on CBS World News(6:30 p.m. EST), Katie Couric will be asking each one of the candidates 10 questions(supposedly that they have not been asked before)at the rate of 1 candidate per night), until they are all interviewed. I am not sure if the roster includes Kucinich, but I think it will be interesting to see and hear them up close outside the debate arena for a change.

After the successful American revolution against the British Empire, there was a move here to make Washington the king. Some European nobleman or other stated something along the lines of, "If Washington does not accept a crown, he is the greatest man in Europe" (i.e., the Western world.)

I support Chavez's egalitarian programs, but was disappointed in Chavez when he seized extraordinary power and wished to proclaim himself president for life.

However, in submitting his aims to a honest popular vote, I believe he is the contemporary "greatest man in Europe" (i.e., the Western world.)

Hi All, my Dad called me out of the blue and invited me to hear Naomi Klein, the author of "The Shock Doctrine" to speak here in Miami. Wow, what an eloquent and concise speaker. She can really "connect the dots". If you haven't heard of her or read any of her material, I highly recommend that you get her book. Aside from her mental acuity, she is also a charmer! She totally wowed everybody and got several standing ovations.

I was very impressed with her.

Marta, her rich family history was the perfect setup for a voice like hers.
She was born 5-5-1970 in Montreal Quebec. Her chart is a strong one and even if she has a short year or so being stifled, she'll be around speaking her mind for a long, long time. Her current explosion of popularity is shown by uranus station direct in her progressed chart, she is currently in a 'crisis in growth' quarter moon phase, and when she's 47 jupiter also will go direct giving her even more recognition and clout.
Assume she won't be doing it here but in the safety of another country (who knows?), anyway, I don't think her concern about being silenced in any final or significant way will ever happen.
That's good news for us all!
(boy, you're fortunate to have such an aware dad, too. Mine is a head-banging maddening republican who thinks Rush is Right, as in truth. He's 90 born at the Russian Revolution 11-10-17, so much for flexibility, huh.).

Pat C, that was a great article and one soooo worth reading. I do agree with his analysis, it's very good and well thought out. If people have been watching Clinton and Obama these last few years they would certainly see exactly what he was talking about, I hope every reads it, and thanks for posting it.

Here is a little essay on Mike Huckabee. This article really exposes Gov. Huckabee since he's been Gov of Arkansas. His chart however indicates a measure, high measure of success now and in the future. His birthdata is Aug. 24, 1955, NT in of all places "Hope, Ark." ring any bells?

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_michael__071203_minister_of_death_2c__.htm

Yes the Steve Kirsch article was good. I am going to print it out, to have as reference to talking points. Our Maine caucus is set for Feb. 10.
eutsch World News Journal last night had an in-depth report on Angela Merkel's 2 years in office. SHE"S a leader. The video clips of her interacting with her own Gov. & world leaders, show a charming very persuasive, personality. After all she has even managed to budge Jr a few inches towards her issues!
We have had "the perfect snow" yesterday. Time to get out the camera!
QOP

The Huckabee article is disturbing. But we have had enough of apocalypticism and fear mongering. America wants and needs hope, which is one of the reasons Obama is riding high, and Al Gore truly inspires. Also Capricorn tends to be more down to earth and "I need to work" and "science". America has that Pluto in Capricorn tendency-that mass belief in pragmatism.

http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2007/06/rash-devious-incapable-of-admitting.html

Huckabee worked to free a rapist because the victim was a distant Clinton cousin, and said rapist went on to kill.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2007/11/13/huckabee/

In the governor's office, his grasp never exceeded his reach. Furniture he'd received to doll up his office was carted out with him when he left, after he'd crushed computer hard drives so nobody could ever get a peek behind the curtain of the Huckabee administration.

Until my paper, the Arkansas Times, blew the whistle, he converted a governor's mansion operating account into a personal expense account, claiming public money for a doghouse, dry-cleaning bills, panty hose and meals at Taco Bell. He tried to claim $70,000 in furnishings provided by a wealthy cotton grower for the private part of the residence as his own, until he learned ethics rules prevented it. When a disgruntled former employee disclosed memos revealing all this, the Huckabee camp shut her up by repeatedly suggesting she might be vulnerable to prosecution for theft because she'd shared documents generated by the state's highest official.

http://www.utopiarescue.com/oldsite/stop_animal_torture.htm

(Miller County, Arkansas) Two boy scout counselors, 17 year old Clayton Frady and 18 year old David litickabee, the son of Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee, have admitted to catching a stray dog during their summer session at Camp Pioneer in Hatfield, AR, and hanging the dog by his neck, slitting his throat and stoning him to death.

Camp officials, who did not report the crime to law enforcement officials, have admitted that the act did occur and have fired the boys from their positions. However, no charges have been filed against the young men.

Arkansas State Police conducted a perfunctory investigation, but did not attempt to locate witnesses to the crime.

Sally, it is great isn't? He really has a clear picture and put a lot of effort into laying it all out for us.

Pat, you're so great! I'd love to see you in action.

There's a difference between fearmongering and facts, even when those facts create fear. Global warming can't be ignored and the effects will take center stage in the most inconvenient way possible, which is survival. Already millions of people are being threatened and displaced and this time it won't just happen to other people in some distant far off place. Remember the mass migration during the Dust Bowl? It doesn't just affect the refugees. It affects the places they go to also.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/climate_indonesia_islands_dc;_ylt=At0kz1L8DTIug0_t60Uh.W.s0NUE

Climate change may wipe some Indonesian islands off map
By Sugita Katyal and Adhityani Arga

JAKARTA (Reuters) - Many of Indonesia's islands may be swallowed up by the sea if world leaders fail to find a way to halt rising sea levels at this week's climate change conference on the resort island of Bali.

Doomsters take this dire warning by Indonesian scientists a step further and predict that by 2035, the Indonesian capital's airport will be flooded by sea water and rendered useless; and by 2080, the tide will be lapping at the steps of Jakarta's imposing Dutch-era Presidential palace which sits 10 km inland (about 6 miles).

The Bali conference is aimed at finding a successor to the Kyoto Protocol, which expires in 2012, on cutting climate warming carbon emissions. With over 17,000 islands, many at risk of being washed away, Indonesians are anxious to see an agreement reached and quickly implemented that will keep rising seas at bay.

Just last week, tides burst through sea walls, cutting a key road to Jakarta's international airport until officials were able to reinforce coastal barricades.

"Island states are very vulnerable to sea level rise and very vulnerable to storms. Indonesia ... is particularly vulnerable," Nicholas Stern, author of an acclaimed report on climate change, said on a visit to Jakarta earlier this year.

Even large islands are at risk as global warming might shrink their land mass, forcing coastal communities out of their homes and depriving millions of a livelihood.

more..

Patb, Could it be that you're thinking of Naomi Wolf as to "fear factor"? I ask because Naomi Klein didn't look, sound or act afraid yesterday. On the contrary, part of her message was to note that the administration's biggest strength lay in inspiring fear, injecting fear, and creating fear and that she hoped we would all resist succumbing to that negative emotion. And yes, she's most definitely a Canadian! Lovely accent.

Maybe you were referring to Naomi Wolf who wrote the 10 Steps to Fascism? When my Dad called to invite me he said he was going to hear "Naomi" can't remember her last name" ... I assumed it was Naomi Wolf and went, but was just as pleased (understatement) to find it was Naomi Klein.

Again, it was a very uplifting speech, she took lots of questions and answered all with great aplomb. No fear (remember that t-shirt slogan?).

PS ya'll can't believe the number of people who were wearing "Impeach Bush AND Cheney" t-shirts.

Marta, we're on the same page. Naomi Klein.
I've heard her say, on 3 different occasions, she would have to roll up the sidewalk and cease spreading her message if journalists were being made 'examples' of by the administration. I didn't use the word 'afraid' or 'fear' anywhere. I said 'concern'.

The Steve Kirsh article was so helpful and I thank you, Pat C., for linking it. I felt honored to read such clear analysis.
Both Naomis have brought forward important thoughts and analysis. I loved getting Naomi Klein's birth data-love to hear that this Taurus will be around speaking her mind for a long time. I love that she is Canadian and so should be save from ending up in one of our gulags.
The story about Huckabee's son is horrifying. I grew up in rural Kansas and new more than one murdering fascist in my youth. I remember one boy chasing my little dog down and shooting her with his BB gun. Christianity and right wing politics so often produce this type of cruelty. Remember Huckabee's thought that Jesus would approve the death penalty because he didn't get off the cross?? Now I ask you!!
At any rate the story reminded me of why I have stayed in my beloved San Francisco Bay Area far away from the rightwing fundalmentalism and the cruelty bred there. I am so grateful to be an old hippie saved from the horror of the fundalmentalism of my heritage.
I bet this is tooo long-still sick- over emotional.

patb, thanks for the clarification ...

Hello everyone! I have been away for a while dealing with work, school, and everything else. There has not been much time for anything else.

Did anyone see the Fiends speech today. It was all about Iran. The last thing he said was exactly what he said before he invaded Iraq. He would not allow Iran to continue their pursuit of WMDs under his watch.

Looks like he or Israel will invade Iran sometime after the new year. Got to get through the BS xian holidays first. You know, the keep shopping thing...

Forget the elections...they won't happen.

Until next time....

Namaste

From the Mass Consciousness Project...

"It is vital in these next few years to stay awake to the lies and
manipulation. You will be told that there's no hope for the planet,
no Earth for your great-grandchildren to inhabit, and that only certain
"good" people will "survive." You will be told that you
must give up your freedoms to be protected from the "enemy." You
will be told that it's too costly (or some other explanation) to fix
human dysfunctional systems involving health care, allocation of
resources, and destruction of the environment. None of this is true."

Get ready, it's going to be a wild ride until 2012. After that, we'll be free of Bushco and his evil cartel. But, nothing will really change until 2020.

This December 12 will be a date of sacred significance. On 12/12, let us give thanks for our many blessings by remembering that there are many throughout our world who suffers hardships and inequities.
On 12/12, let us come together in meditation, focusing on building loving-kindness in our hearts and sending it out into the world with every heartbeat.
Let us also come together on 12/12 and each performs at least one Random Act of Kindness to a stranger. Let those individual actions ripple outward in ever increasing waves to change the face of the planet.
Together we can make a difference.
We would like to share with you this video, to help frame your thoughts for the meditation

The link I have for the video is not working, I willtry to find it on You Tube and post it later. Or you may find it by doing a search on 12/12 peace project.

interesting link
http://www.tbrnews.org/Archives/a2796.htm#001

The derier flap on the emperor's pantalones are waving "hi" in the wind, in fact they're dissolving, exposing and the whole word begins to smile...visit this treasure trove of stories and videos (especially Joe Biden's/Chris Matthews pledge to impeach bush if he dares invade Iran without congressional approval..which will be an interesting expose` on congress as well).

http://crooksandliars.com

Ever since the 2000 coup my emotional elevator has been yo-yo-ing between despair and resignation, with short stops at hopefulness, and the outrage button beeping the whole time.

Astroworld has been a sea-anchor through all of this--keeping me mindful of the great adage: "Everything is connected/Everything is changing."

Anyhow, wanted to alert AW to my current hopefulness (and even laugh a bit) station

>http://www.newyorker.com

Hendrik Hertzberg has written a wonderful article "Follow the Leaders" about leaders around the world who cast their lot with Bush and who have met their downfall. The details about Australia's John Howard's humiliation and Bush's foolery at the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) group are especially funny.

Ever since the 2000 coup my emotional elevator has been yo-yo-ing between despair and resignation, with short stops at hopefulness, and the outrage button beeping the whole time.

Astroworld has been a sea-anchor through all of this--keeping me mindful of the great adage: "Everything is connected/Everything is changing."

Anyhow, wanted to alert AW to my current hopefulness (and even laugh a bit) station

>http://www.newyorker.com

Hendrik Hertzberg has written a wonderful article "Follow the Leaders" about leaders around the world who cast their lot with Bush and who have met their downfall. The details about Australia's John Howard's humiliation and Bush's foolery at the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) group are especially funny.

From Glen Greenwald:

We all saw what happened with FEMA's response to Katrina. What many don't know is that rampant corporate cronyism is pervasive

throughout the entire Department of Homeland Security, not just FEMA.

Our good friends at CREW (Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington) have done critically important work in exposing corruption.

They just released a report on the first five years of DHS showing how taxpayers are being looted by profit-greedy corporations.

Based on the report, we created this video: http://homelandsecurityforsale.org/

You can read the full report on the website as well.

Corporate profiteers are raiding systems put in place for the nation's security.

It's yet another example of reckless privatization. This is homeland security, not a homeowner's association!

PatC, given the glaring ommissions in substance from the beginning of this financial ruse called Homeland Security, haven't we always known this is just another section of the looter in thief's candy store?
port security: none "skymarshalls": none
airport security layoffs 2002: zip
Katrina: none and zip
border security: gossamer

And a whole lotta yappin'.

The final piece of the Bushies = Nazi Puzzle?

http://www.harpers.org/archive/2007/07/hbc-90000651
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/document/document_20070723.shtml

Prescott Bush not only funded the Nazis, but plotted a coup against Roosevelt to impose a fascist state upon the US! (It seems his decendants have certainly done their part to carry on his work.)

Looks like Jupiter, the Galactic Center and Pluto at work. Perhaps this is THE truth on the Bush family secret that Sally predicted several months ago had a chance of coming to light.

patb, you betcha! But it has to be said over and over again! Must not fade away.

...........

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22115291/

Morgan Spurlock, the filmmaker who did "Supersize Me", went on a tour of the Middle East looking for bin Laden. Circumstantial evidence seems to suggest he found bin Laden. And all of Shrub's horses and all of Shrub's men... couldn't.

Well, PatC, rather it's time to skip the middleman
altogether, those nasty details like WHICH lie is which (and they're all lies)) and go for that big half-wit lunatic Kahuna.

Biden's ready to collar him. When Biden says the party's over, It's over.

Go help Al in Bali:
http://www.climateprotect.org/standwithal

I was searching for something on the internet, not related to this article, but for some reason it popped up. I remember Sharon inquiring about a good time for her husband to have surgery, and this comes too late, but for others who may be contemplating surgery in the future, this article may be helpful. A good way to verify if any of the foregoing bears out, is for those who have already had surgery, and remember the date, to see how it corroborates with the advice given in this article. You have to scroll down a bit when you pull up the website.

http://www.tonyasomers.com/mercury.htm

Germans illegally wiretapped a man sent by AlQuieda to perpetrate an insurance scam to raise funds. They tailed the for 6 months caught convicted them & sentanced them to jail. ( for 7 years)
SO efficiently normal! Why can't WE DO that?
QOP

QOP, we can't do that, no, WE as in you and me and just about everyone we know can do that.
The periodic wearer of facial bruises s***-faced
pretzel-choker cannot follow such logic.
His pickled cortex has shriveled so badly all that is left is his grunting amygdala lizard instinctual brain.

Why we continue to throw ourselves against the locked door of his limited perceptions instead of acting on what we know is true, WITH CONFIDENCE is an exercise of our own flabby cortexes.
We'll make it though. I know we will.

Hooray for us! We are masters of the obvious!

Because behind that locked door of limited perceptions, is my heat and warmth for the winter!
We have 17', 18' 20' of snow here. I can't find anyone to plow out my parking space. ( they won't do it because of the high cost of gas...)Too bad they didn't boycot B*** years ago instead of now boycotting the old lady here!
The Town snow plow guy threatened to call the police ( who DO have tasers, maybe they WOULD use them in this upside down world); when I stepped out onto the shoulder of the road with my arms outstretched, to SIGNAL him not to dump another load behind my car while I was digging out a waist high, wet heavy pile from the first plowing trip.
He stopped the plow turned it off, and when I mumbled something about heart attack he came to his senses and backed off dumping his snow load,
where nobody had a car parked that they were trying to free!
I felt sorry for Jenna Bush yesterday. On the Ellen Degeneris show she was pushed into calling her Father on the phone, ( by Ellen) She was game about it but I noticed her nervously twisting her fingers in her skirt down at her side. He may be her Father BUT he is an Emotional abuser.
The comments posted on Huffpo were really cynical, asumptive & viscious!
I gave W about a month to prove that he wasn't cut out of the dsame cloth as Grandpa Prescott.
What if Jenna isn't?? What a horror show to be born into that family if you are different!
( Obviously I too have dysfunctional family issues!)
QOP

Conyers on why impeachment is deserved but politically impossible:

http://www.metrotimes.com/editorial/story.asp?id=12082

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071205/ap_on_sc/climate_scientists

Scientists beg for climate action
By SETH BORENSTEIN

WASHINGTON - For the first time, more than 200 of the world's leading climate scientists, losing their patience, urged government leaders to take radical action to slow global warming because "there is no time to lose."

A petition from at least 215 climate scientists calls for the world to cut in half greenhouse gas emissions by 2050. It is directed at a conference of diplomats meeting in Bali, Indonesia, to negotiate the next global warming treaty. The petition, obtained by The Associated Press, is to be announced at a press conference there Wednesday night.

The appeal from scientists follows a petition last week from more than 150 global business leaders also demanding the 50 percent cut in greenhouse gases. That is the estimate that scientists calculate would hold future global warming to a little more than a 3-degree Fahrenheit increase and is in line with what the European Union has adopted.

more...

QOP, that perception thing wasn't referring to you at all! Maybe we're being challenged to not rely so much on OUTER validation and give insane people all that power. It's how we're constructed that can evolve with this experience...we're so compelled to lose our seat to the most outrageous personality in the room. We could learn to "keep our seat" and trust ourselves regardless of who or what's the distraction. As humans we are wired to not trust ourselves and give it instead to people who are just being themselves (in this case sociopathic).
My teacher once said, "Never ever trust...by not trusting we can therefore be more generous".

It was good you shifted how the snowplow guy sees the world, and maybe now he'll be less focused on how tough his job is, more inclined to care about people like you.
Poor Jenna.

PatC, Conyer's ruling out impeachment for the reasons he gives just tells us they get walking papers.
Progressive movement to displace the swarming rats in the basement is the only way right NOW.."You vote against the constitution, out you go".
Revolution #1 simultaneously creates power back to the states.
Until then,
Poor us.

Another Fiore classic...

http://www.sfgate.com/comics/fiore/

QOP, I caught the replay on Olberman of Jenna. I felt so badly for her, the fear of making her Daddy angry. I am glad she is grown now, getting married and maybe getting away from all of them. I doubt it though, her fiancee is a 'company' man.
Any way her fear of her Daddy was palpable and heartbreaking. I wish her success.

Glad someone else saw Jenna's fear/discomfort. But maybe she'll manage to grow beyond company man too, and be her own woman!
Someone at Society of Children's Book Writers & Illustrators ( read her book at the publisher's where she worked, and gave a nice book review of it;( to our online blog) as being very empathetic, and well written. ) She said it was a shame to judge her as connected to that family,or be against her book for that reason. ( Because she's a celeb by birth)
QOP

Huckabee Blames Clinton For Dumond's Release

In an appearance on CBS this morning, Huckabee noted that the parole board members were “appointed by Bill Clinton, by Jim Guy Tucker,” that “Jim Guy Tucker, in concert with Bill Clinton … reduced [DuMond’s] sentence,” and that “it was Bill Clinton and Jim Guy Tucker who actually commuted Mr. DuMond’s sentence, making him parole-eligible.”
Huckabee made sure to mention Wednesday that Tucker was “convicted of Whitewater-related felonies.” And just in case that wasn’t enough, he noted in an interview on MSNBC this morning that some of the new attention to the DuMond case is being driven by Waas’ reporting in the Huffington Post, “one of the most left-wing blogs in the blogosphere.”
--Salon War Room

First, Clinton didn’t reduce the sentence, Tucker commuted Dumond’s life sentence to 39 years. That made him parole-eligible, but it was Huckabee who actively sought Dumond’s release, in large part because this convicted rapist had become a right-wing cause celebre.

Second, for Huckabee to argue that he wasn’t involved in the parole process is flatly contradicted by a lot of evidence.

....

Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee made a rare personal appeal to release a convicted rapist from prison, a former top aide to the GOP presidential hopeful confirmed to ABC News.
Butch Reeves, formerly the criminal justice counsel to the Arkansas governor’s office, handled all requests for clemencies and communications with prisoners.
....

In a phone interview, Reeves said Huckabee told the board members he thought there was “something nefarious” about the criminal justice system in Dumond’s case, and that the rapist got a “raw deal.” Huckabee said he believed Dumond’s sentence, originally a life sentence plus 20 years, was “way out of bounds” for his crime, raping a 17-year-old high school student.
Reeves said he could recall only a few such appeals being made by a governor.
--ABC News

The smart way out of this was to acknowledge the truth, express regret, and promise voters to learn from the mistake. Instead, Huckabee not only pushed to let a violent criminal out of jail for political reasons, he’s lying about it now.

http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/13827.html#more-13827