Hillary was born October 26, 1947 in Chicago. I have three birthtimes for Hillary, non verified just published at different places on the net. One time is 8:00am, then 8:00pm but the one her cousin gave (said it was info from her mother) was 2:16am) if anyone has a "verified" birth time please share.

Randi Rhodes was assaulted on Sunday night and lost some teeth while walking her dog in her NYC neighborhood. The dicussions are leaning towards a deliberate attack since there wasn't a robbery invovled. Apparently, some are getting desparate.

Sally, will look further in but feb. looks like Hillary's an angry pumpkin with her momentum sharply cut. From the get-go my intuition about Bill is that he's totally not into this and feb. could cinch it.
There's not a date for choosing the nominee yet, is there?

Hi Sally, I think it's time to stop playing by their rules and boycott the vote and boycott these "corporate candidates". Or at the very least, see about being able to "write-in" a candidate. I don't think Hillary will be any better than Dubya. The fact is that she's been "annointed" (and that "annointing" comes with a price) already and since they have hijacked the vote at least 3 times, they just need to create the perception that everybody "wants" her to be the candidate. It's the same thing the MSM did when they declared Bush the front runner. What BS! We need to stop being led like sheep and told who/what we want/don't want. We need to stop cooperating and participating in the lie.

As an aside, funny how Rove left the WH just in time for the presidential campaign to start picking up speed. Wonder if he's her secret counselor .... he's kept a pretty low profile since leaving ....

I'm not terribly enamored of her, and I'm tired of voting for someone that I don't particularly like or trust.

I heard about that and think it's terrible and it's happening daily to women and men around this country and around the world. I don't know if it was directed at Randi or if it was the increasing violence directed at women from all directions. There was an article about a secret sect of women who beat one of their own to death for not following some ritual

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article2662749.ece

I stand back and try to think what is happening to us, this goes beyond astrology, or maybe it doesn't. Again and again I see images of returning to a reptialian thought processes. Something massive is changing within all of us, all around the world. It isn't just here and it isn't just what this country is experiencing. I don't know if it's because the Photon Belt is moving, if it's the people rising up against oppression and anger is the way it's being expressed, I don't know if it's the earth changes, the solar flairs, the planets in the last signs of the zodiac, I don't know. We have become defensive and angry, always on guard for perceived or real attacks. We have been over-drugged, over lied to, over marketed, over-done.

I know some have already moved ahead or are moving ahead and looking toward a better time, some cannot even see a better time much less what they could do to hasten that better period of time. I hear and feel the anger from liberals/progressives and conservatives alike. No compassion, no forgiveness, no mercy, I hope it changes soon for all of us.

Denver will host the 2008 Democratic National Convention Monday, August 25 to Thursday, August 28 at the Pepsi Center.

I only put this up as a "new thread" based on Stan's question from the last grouping of posts and haven't really delineated her chart in the last three months. What you said about Bill not really being in it, I think that's partly strategy so she seems to be standing on her own feet, not on Bill's shoulders, but I think he is heavily involved in the background. Still a lot of folks don't like him or trust him. I did have a friend postulate that Bill on a sub-conscious basis might not really want to be second tier to Hillary, or be the "first man." If she gets in, I don't think too many people will believe that Bill Clinton is not advising her. Remember when Bill was elected and he said "you get two for one," meaning Hillary. No matter what their personal marriage might be, I think their professional marriage is fairly strong.

Usually the gavel comes down about 10:00 am at these conventions. Of course most of the work has been done in advance. I took an 8:00am time (that I am sure will be changed) but the Moon is at the midheaven in Gemini, squaring Venus and Mercury in the first, and wide opposition to Pluto, as well as a square to a retrograde Uranus, forming a mutable grand square. All that movement and talk with little resoluton. Neptune retrograde and going direct a few days before the election, again in exact aspect at 21 Aquarius to Hillarys Mercury and Saturn. Dirty tricks? Stolen from her? Stolen by her? Will she even be the candidate? Her own Moon and Uranus fits into that Mutable square as does Obama's Mars, Edwards planets and Al Gore's Jupiter, Mercury and Uranus, so, it's still a wide open field. However like I've said before, no matter how good someone looks at the Convention or election day from this far out, they still have to make it from here to there. If they "break a leg" so to speak, or stumble, no matter how much they want to win the race or how hard they've trained, they simply will not be able to run.

Hi, Sally, don't know if you're into baseball or not, but congrats on the Rockies sweeping the ALCS. I was hoping they'd get in this year.

Sally, I've thought for a long time that all humankind is swimming in the same big pool, and some swimmers are able to open channels bringing in fresh pure spring water. Other swimmers open channels bringing in sewage. These latter swimmers don't seem to understand that they are fouling their own pool. (They think they've got an exclusive corner.)

BTW, everybody check out Huffington Post

http://www.huffingtonpost.com

Ariana asks Nancy Pelosi the question that has been on many minds, "Are you too well-behaved to get us out of Iraq?"

Sally, Randi's story is updated to say this is believed to be random violence.
It's a result I think of the closure of mental hospitals countrywide in 1968 which turned very ill people to the streets, homelessness, which make the resultant survival anxieties unbearable. Now as you know such people are handled by jails and prisons as substitutes for mental hospitals, then turned back on the streets. Given meds which are either not taken or run out and not refilled.

This country is a country that brutalizes the vulnerable and always has. We'll have short stints of nurturing then callouslessly do the equivalent of throat-cutting american style.

Just sayin' Sally. This is nothing new..especially in NYC. We watched a video of NY
subway catacomb dwellers who made their own little society below ground. They were evicted by the City and caught the attention of a group that gave each one of them their own apartments and on the road to dignity. It's us as individuals, working with government until it dries up. Then we have to find other ways amongst ourselves to make things right and comfort the desperate souls among us.

Thanks Teresa, this "football" town is thrilled to find out they have a baseball team. I think they are still in shock that the Rockies could have won and in such a dramatic fashion. The stadium has been packed. Take that Bronco's

I love you analogy Barbara of the swimmers it's great, and yes PatB we have always had the violent aspect to the human race, it's just that it seems to be increasing. Not the violence so much as the anger and mean-spiritedness. That's increasing. I have clients from around the world and the last two years they have all been commenting on how bad it has become in their country. Possibly the mass movement of people around the world and how to learn to fit into new cultures while keeping some of their own. Again, I just don't know but I do know it's there.

I was meanly verbally attacked yesterday! As I waited at the diesel pump at the CITGO station, a new Toyota SUV/lt. truck pulled up next to me, the friver smiledand said ":I see You n]bumper tickers, Are you a liberal?" ( mild sticker has images of peacesign, globe, heart, & W with a circle bar banned sign,) ..WHen I answered yes he attacked me very nastily for driving a dirty smelly oil spewing vehicle why didn't I get a new car! Motor mouthed loudly over my attempted conversation, then pulled back out on Rt # 1 and drove away! BURNING A GAL EVERY 14 MILES OR SO.
SO odd, he was a conservative latching onto Al Gore's platform to batter me with????
A few hours later I entered Canada to grocery shop & found TOTALLY DIFFERENT VIBES! prosperous people shopping with a large variety of choices, very friendly and open! I wanted to stay!
This mourning in AmeriKa I have wasted 1/2 day on technology!
ANd discovered inthe process ( talked to the tech with the Graphic Design Dept.) that my old college $13,000. year tuition, is not as technically advanced as I am or as our local elementary & high schools are in Washington Co.!
QOP

i believe many are synthesizing a complex energy shift. For some (maybe for many) that shift will be cataclysmic, especially those who have bought into a marketed consciousness. Acting out in an agressive manner is always fear related, and the fear is almost palpable in the atmosphere. Though many would dispute my reasoning, i believe that every entity has prescience. On some animal level, perhaps there is a morbid preparation to get what you can get and from whom you can get it.

Word has it that Atlanta has less than 90-days water supply. Can you imagine the kind of mayhem resulting from this if they cannot find a solution in that period of time? Yet, if this were to occur would the general population finally relate to what is being done throughout the world in their names?

As the economy turns upside down and more and more people are left to fend for themselves, i cannot even imagine what kind of monstrous acts seemingly sane people might commit.

I feel, and believe there's a "siren" call occuring simultaneously to this energy of mayhem. It asks us to focus on our own internal/eternal flame of life. Expressing by word and deed our divinity will do much to assuage this absurd out-of-control diviseness. This is not a trite new-age kookie theory the elite like to ascribe to those who are pushing the boundaries of marketed consciousness and control. Rather we must do whatever expands our divinity if we are to survive.

Sally, I totally get what you're saying. Before gargaging my car 2 yrs ago dreaded driving to Denver because of the horrific aggression not seen before in drivers is now routine! Accordian accidents common with people intimidatingly close behind those driving the speed limit which was upped to 65! Passing with a swipe inches from the car passed and on and on.
This is now normal!

Sally it's like a super-infection of the soul uninhibiting base human instinct as a norm.
A big part of this is dumbed-down pumped-up MSM and this blind inhumanity it encourages.

QOP how awful for you this effected you so directly in such a painful way. You could definitely use a hug ((((PatQ))))) and a hot cocoa. Sorry.

Sally, think you may have misread what I meant about Mr. Bill,that's o.k.. Is my feeling you're mad at me my imagination?

Oh no Pat B I didn't think anything about it, I was just repeating some things I'd heard about them. Sorry, I get so focused sometimes on getting things out.

In keeping with this tightening spiral of speed and aggression we're witnessing, couldn't find the photo series to share. Do you guys remember the film in l983 "Koyaanisqatsi" soundtrack Philip Glass.
Koyaanisqatsi is a Hopi term which means, "crazy life, life in turmoil, life out of balance".

Let's here it for coherence! The house passed a resolution 295 - 31 condeming the state department's refusal to release info:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/2007/10/house_rebukes_state_on_iraqi_c.php

Although nonbinding, this is very telling. Either the situation is so bad that even Rethugs can't ignore it, or they're so weary they don't even care any more.

My lawd, Janet Jackson's nipple pops out and it major news around the world. Randi Rhodes gets her teeth knocked out in a violent assault and it's a news blackout, 'random', "a fall". Talk about the smell of horse patootie.

http://www.airamerica.com/node/5528#comment

Now I read this; I do not know what to believe.

Bhakti, the only word that counts is "non-binding". NOTHING.
Non-binding indeed. 7 1/2 years of non-binding empty words from gutless wonders. So, don't bother getting up.

And the monster machine rolls on crushing everything in it's path.

patb,
I have been skipping your posts since the fracas of Sept when I was triangulated. You have since not come forward to take repsonsibility for your actions at that time by saying anything to me or the AW community. I have not forgotten and plan to keep skipping. Thanks.

bhakti, I will not go there. Do what you must. Peace.

http://therealnews.com/web/index.php?thisdataswitch=0&thisid=498&thisview=item

Can the CIA be sued for torture?
Michael Ratner says: claiming kidnapping, imprisonment and torture are a 'state secret', is outrageous.

Michael Ratner is the President of the Center for Constitutional Rights (CCR) in New York. He has taught at Yale Law School, lectured at Columbia Law School and was President of the National Lawyers Guild.

Got this in my e-mail.

From Air America’s CEO:
From: Scott Elberg
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 8:24 AM
To: All
Cc:——-
Subject: FW: final statement

All

This statement will be on airamerica.com as well as Randi’s show page.

Please see me if you have any questions.

Thanks
Scott

October 16-NEW YORK-On Sunday evening, October 14, Air America host Randi Rhodes experienced an unfortunate incident hindering her from hosting her show. The reports of a presumed hate crime are unfounded. Ms. Rhodes looks forward to being back on the air on Thursday.

Points of interest re Hillary's chart.

I use the 8:00 AM time for Hillary. The chart works, and is based on a remark her mother made about Hillary being born in time for breakfast. We may never get a confirmed birthtime for her, so I'll operate the best as I can with the chart I think works.

Off the cuff stuff -- Her natal MC is 4 Virgo, the degree of the August 28th Eclipse and the degree of the Venus-Saturn conjunction on that degree of 10/13. The T-South Node is now conjoined to T-Saturn (Hillary's MC), so I suspect that until 10/26, when The South Node is off her MC (and moving into her 9th house ifrom her 10th and Saturn has moved away from that point (direct motion in her 10th house), we might hear negative news about Hillary and her popularity might tank a bit until the Full Moon of 10/25.

Saturn in Hillary's 10th by transit is the woman coming of age. She's made her bones and can now either reap her reward as stateswoman or fall from grace. Saturn traveling one's 10th can be an either/or proposition. The fall from grace in Hillary's case might mean "it's her election to lose." Perhaps she doesn't get the nomination. But my take on political power (and Saturn is all about earthly power) is that she'll come through.

Hillary isn't going to have any money problems. Her 8th house (campaign fundraising) Vertex is at 4 Cancer, sextile her MC, and wedged right between the USA's Venus and Jupiter. Her North Node (future aspirations) is 23 Taurus sitting on her 7th cusp. Others out there are busily recruiting money behind the scenes (Venus ruler in 12th house). Her undoing (12th house), if there is to be one, could be aligned with another Hsu (the corrupt Chinese investor) debacle.

Her Juno at 29 Sagittarius (asteroid of political marriages/arrangements/agreements) is about to get supercharged late this year by Pluto's transit over it. Pluto dips to 0 Capricorn on January 30, 2008, but retro's back to 28 Sagittarius before pushing ahead into Capricorn again. That means Juno (Hera) has plenty of time to use great persuasions and money powers (Juno in her 2nd house of personal assets, values and wealth). The ruler of her second house is at 0 Sagittarius in her first house. (21 Scorpio rising square natal Saturn in Leo in the 9th -- a formidible lawyer and partner).

I think the Jupiter in her first can be seen the shape of her legs. She has piano legs (I don't mean this in any ugly way, it's just an observation) and tends to gain weight in her hips. Sagittarious is associated with the hips and upper leg area.

Hillary has a Sun-Pluto mutual reception in her chart. Her 12th house Scorpio Sun disposits (rules) her 9th house Mars-Pluto-Saturn conjunction. This is woman who has more physical drive and staying power than the men she's running against. She may look tired or may not have her hair done the way she'd like the longer the campaign goes on, but Hillary will show up for it all and remain a force to be reckoned with. Her Scorpio Venus and Saturn square her Mars-Pluto-Saturn as well. There isn't much by way of other planetary aspects we could note that would give us a stronger power portrait both physically and mentally. With Scorpio rising, she has both Mars and Pluto as chart rulers. (Mars is the traditional ruler of Scorpio, which places the Sun in Mutual Reception with Mars as well. We've got a double whammy here).

With her Sun is in mutual reception with her chart ruler (Pluto and traditionally to Mars), we are looking at a transformer and power broker that points too a much tougher woman than even Maggie Thatcher was. (Their political orientations notwithstanding). She would make a good president and would show courage (Mars) and resolve (Pluto). Whether one likes her or not and whether she'd do what many progressives want her to do politically is a different story. I'm just looking at the woman herself here.

Hillary has no earth in her chart. Zip. She's dependent upon those around her to fill in the earth element by supplying the grounding forces necessary for long-range stablity. That is supplied to Hillary via her husband, Bill. He has his natal Moon at 22 Taurus, conjunct her partnership/marriage North Node in her 7th house. He has been both her husband and her "enemy" via his infidelities throughout their long marriage. Bill's Taurus Moon is the only earth in his chart, so both of them have to share it. Fortunately, the Moon is exalted in the sign which makes it powerful enough to carry buckets of much needed ground-soil for the both of them.

TPM's three top stories

Leahy and Specter says "no immunity for the tele-coms until they find out what they did. (I expect they will find out and tell us "trust us" it's ok.

Next story

The State Department's secrecy is not going over well in the investigation of billions of missing dollars and alligations of faud in Iraq and

Story three

Iraq has finished their investigation into Blackwater and told them to get out, although Morgana said they will just go to work for Dynacorp.

http://tpmmuckraker.com/

I absolutely expect the Dems and GOP to start pressure on the WH after the 1st of the year. There are all these voters out here upset and the pols have to show us they really are doing oversight. In the meantime Kay Bailey Hutchinson is stepping down. What an exodus of GOP

Notwithstanding my favorite being Al Gore, and then John Edwards, and then Barack Obama, I think Hillary Clinton would make a very fine president. The more I see her the more I like her. I'm reading all the posts so I know my opinion is none too popular, but I'll have Hillary ANY DAY compared to another 4 years of the GOP. I think Claudia's assessment above is right on the money.

Claudia, I find your work fascinating, please keep posting, and thank you for sharing!

Sally, I know I haven't posted in forever, but I always come back to read your columns and I always will, as long as you have it. I really appreciate all your talent and your generosity in sharing your knowledge.

Sally, rats abandoning the ship. They're willing to take the country down, but not their own little miserable lives. It's a scramble to save themselves.
Good riddance.

Laurie, as a friendly suggestion, because being fully knowledgeable really means something may I suggest that you read up on her main pollster and one of her campaign committee advisers Mark Penn (who is just like Karl Rove). Everyone here should read this link.

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070521/berman

I just noted that T-Pluto is squaring P-Neptune (@ 26 Virgo) in the Decl. of Independence's progressed chart. T-Pluto (on Galactic Center) is also in the degree of the Decl's chart's progressed Lunar Nodes (26 Cancer which conjoins the Natal Vertex and Part of Fortune in house 8 and 26 Capricorn, which means the South Node has already rolled over Natal Pluto at 27 Cap).

T-Pluto square P-USA Neptune brings in a "challenge moment" harking back to the Neptune-Pluto conjunction of the late 1800's (Hitler was born with this conjunction). These two outer planets only conjoin about every 500 years, so plotting or charting them per events is not really doable. We have to go with shorter term outer planet configurations.

Okay, if we look back at the last Pluto-Neptune conjunction, we're talking the growing hey-day of the Gilded age, culiminating with McKinley's presidency in the very early 1900's. What are some of the issues we're confronting today at the T-Pluto in square to the Decl's progressed Neptune? Another gilded age and headlines of growing "concern" about a 1929 style stock market crash.

We are under the lash of an administration whose architect was Karl Rove (Bush named him that after 2004, I didn't). Karl Rove's hero? Mark Hanna -- William McKinley's campaign manager. Well, Machiavelli, too. Rove reads "The Prince" at least once a year, every year. Rove said it. I didn't put the words in his mouth.

You just can't make this stuff up!

Come to think of it, I suspect Leo Strauss and Machiavelli would have liked each other very much.

I meant to say that we could look at the gilded age vis a vis the Neptune-Pluto conjunction and T-Pluto's square to P-Neptune in the USA's chart because the events I'm talking about didn't occur that terribly long ago and have a strong bearing on the United States' identity. T-Pluto's square to the USA's Natal Neptune and OPP to Natal Mars (now retro in Libra by progression for 72 years total) is that nasty t-square people have talked so much about. The religious right (Neptune in Virgo in the 9th) are spouting "purity of vision" issues re Romney, Giulini, etc. They just aren't X-tian enough. The Pluto-Mars is certainly Jihad, whether Christian, neocon or Muslim.

Man, I'm chatty today.

Very worrisome...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rj-eskow/hillarys-rove-comes-th_b_68688.html

“Hillary’s Rove” Comes Through for Blackwater

Have we just had a taste of how influence might be wielded under a Clinton II Administration? In a very successful week for its most notorious client, Mark Penn’s firm was able to get Blackwater CEO Erik Prince several major television appearances. Lob-ball questions were included at no extra charge.

Democrats have waited years for a consultant that can play the media as well as the GOP can. Unfortunately, most of them had hoped it would be a better cause.

More...

Patb, I enjoy reading your posts. They are so full of vim and vigor, and you have such an effervescent personality, and a wonderful sense of humor! Hope you continue to post here.

Chat away Claudia I love how your mind works!

Pat C, yup that is indeed worrisome about our dear Hillary, not so thrilled with Bill's chumminess with Papa Bush, or is that keep your enemies close ? If I saw the Hillary who threw away her Valedictorian speech and let it fly instead I might be more attracted to her. I shudder at the stepford wife bland expression, her facial muscles don't move much.

Claudia when I get off work I am savoring the thought of checking out the Decl P. and T.'s, very interesting yuppers. You just know something big is afoot and trying to see it.

I just heard on NBC News, that Dick Cheney is an 8th cousin of Barack Obama. What rotten luck! - I mean for Obama. Say it ain't so. Maybe it's just a ruse to smear Obama.

Wow. Thanks everybody. I fell silent for nearly a year. I didn't even do anything on Starcats. My last article was 10/19/06 on the Military Commissions. It seems I revived after a long sleep. I was glad to put up some work on Gore on my site. I like the immediacy of Sally's blog. Plus, the crowd here is open, warm and very smart.

Morgana, something verrry big is afoot indeed.

Pat C -- Hillary's Rove comes through for Blackwater. H's chart (check out those power squares and the Sun-Pluto=Mars mutual reception). H's chart is made for a Blackwateresque link. Deep, deep power. Dark power. Now, when I say that, it truly depends upon consciousness and how someone with Hillary's chops chooses to handle it.

After Bush, I'm deeply suspicious of the Old Guard. The Clinton's are mainstream -- connected, wealthy, top-tier, power players.

I wondered if Bill had the Stockholm Syndrome going with Daddy Bush. Or else it's Lookie! I Beeeeeelong at last!

My faves: 1. Al Gore. Then it comes to the wives of the candidates: Elizabeth Edwards and Michelle Obama. I wish those two women were running for president!

Claudia, Am I way out in left field to remember about yellow journalism during the Gilded Age, or around that time, and thinking there's a link between that and our MSM goind whole hog for the buildup to war in Iraq too. Another similarity in the Neptune/Pluto aspect? Yellow journalism was such a neptunian underhanded sort of thing.

Morgana, Hillary holds that bland expression because she is holding back a screech.

Crystal, thanks for saying that! I was getting a bit discouraged by the jousting...hey why don't we hear more from you? YOu make for a crispy ingredient in this crazy salad yourself!

I was just watching that interview of Larry Craig with Matt Lauer, and they said that the story broke in the media on Aug. 27th. That was one day before the lunar eclipse at 4 Pisces. Did anyone do a chart for Craig? Because I'm certain he has some point or planet in his chart (natal or progressed) that would be impacted by that eclipse.

On the subject of Presidential candidates, I really would have liked to see a woman in the White House, but I don't like Hillary, so if she becomes the Democratic candidate, I will be in a quandary as to whether I would vote or not. I like Obama. I like his character, and personality. I love his smile, his intelligent face, and his warmth, and I think he would make a more human President than Hillary would. I also can't envision Bill living in the White House again, playing second fiddle to his wife.

Hi Luna -- William Randolph Hearst, Yellow Journalism and the Spanish-American war. 1989. You are quite right. "Remember the Maine" was the battle cry. Hearst said, ". . .You furnish the pictures, I'll furnish the war." No time on Hearst, but here's his solar data: April 29, 1863, San Francisco, CA.

The Spanish were accused of blowing up the Maine off the coast of Cuba. I saw a special on PBS about 2-3 years ago where it was proved the Spanish didn't blow up the Maine. There was an amunition accident on the Maine, so she actually blew herself up. The ammo was kept in a room right next to the big boiler room!

Patb, I used to read and post here more often about 5 years ago, when I had more time on my hands from being unemployed, but I'm so busy now; I feel like I'm always running behind, and playing catch-up. Sometimes I post without even reading other commentary, but I always read the articles that Sally, and the guest astrologers write. This is the only astro site that I post on, because I like most of the people here, but I do read other astro websites from time to time.

There is a documentary on Cheney tonight on PBS at 10 p.m. Florida time, and I don't want to miss it. Don't know if it's on all PBS nation wide, but I think it would be worth a look-see.

Crystal, I don't have Larry Craig's time of birth so I am using a noon chart, but based on the noon chart his Moon is 5 degrees Sagittarius and he has nothing close to the partial Solar Eclipse of Sept. 11th, so it would have to be the Aug. Lunar Eclipse, although the Sept. 11th eclipse did fall across his progressed Mercury at 18 Virgo, that would be information.

I did see a bit of that interview and listened to his wife and thought he absolutely is trying to cover his tracks for his family. He doesn't want to look bad to them or lose them. I just sat and stared straight ahead.

Chrystal, in any case I think if we end up with Hillary it's CERTAINLY better than the prospect of 4 repug years.
I plan to vote to push back against that tide.
Should we not for whatever idealogical preferences that seems appropriate when times are milder and not under this hideous fascist threat.

Yeah. Vote damage control. please push back or we're done. done. cooked.

Chrystal, in any case I think if we end up with Hillary it's CERTAINLY better than the prospect of 4 repug years.
I plan to vote to push back against that tide.
Should we not for whatever idealogical preferences that seems appropriate when times are milder and not under this hideous fascist threat.

Yeah. Vote damage control. please push back or we're done. done. cooked.

Sally, that's what I saw working in Craig's solar chart. I noted that Saturn was at 29 Leo the day of the toilettastic event. 29 Leo is conjunct the royal fixed star Regulus and Saturn is the king breaker if one is not forthright, so Saturn on Regulus was ...okay...wait for it....Craig's de-throning. Oh, I couldn't resist that awful pun.

Michael Wolfstar had some interesting remarks on the Republican Party chart in connection with Craig.
http://stariq.com/Main/Articles/P0008138.HTM

I'd love it if you'd opine on the GOP chart if you have the time or inclination.

I'm thinking Craig's chart, the transits and progressions to it, and the Republican chart all point to the major themes of GOP hypocrisy and exposure. Neptune's three oppostions to Saturn over the last two years led to the Deceptive one (NEP) getting busted (SAT). Those 3 oppositions also matched up with the deep, long slide Bush has experienced over the last two years. His Neptune pipe dreams about Iraq have been exposed to serious lessons in reality. The balloon has been deflated. (Saturn)

A thing of beauty, I say.

Sally, on a certain level I am in awe of Craig and guys like him to completely divorce themselves from what's real. Create reality l984-style, vaporize and rewrite what you just did is quite astonishing, innit? What need for conscience ala OJ Simpson. Craig's face was clear and conscience-free as ducks in a pond.
Quite, quite amazingly nuts.

As expected, PBS cancelled the Dick Cheney Show and gave us some Patraeus as Bush's Coffee Table instead. (Preceded by "The Flu Can Kill You" on the local fauxnews, not cable, promotional pitch for the flu shot stockholders).

Give me a shovel, I'm tunneling outa here. North.

Claudia, one twisted perv swindling child ravishing tax robbing mercenary gone murder spreeing story...

I'm afraid of this thing called "sensory adaptation" in the human makeup. Bush could murder his wife on the WH steps, dull and duller reactions are rendering these outrages, business as usual rather than occasion for a straightjacket. Just ask congress & the senate..their our finest examples of senses dulled.

Most sincere thanks Sally
and to Claudia I'm sure we can more than handle your constructive chattiness

Hey Morgana you put it rather well.
"If I saw the Hillary who threw away her Valedictorian speech and let it fly instead I might be more attracted to her."

That kinda describes what I meant when I questioned how she might react to adversity and stop sitting on the fence

Just to clarify, the above reference is to the saturn/neptune exposers. Dulling as it is, the sand is washing away under the repugs who should write a book, "Why We Have to Steal".

Hi Stan, very nice to meet you. Thank you.

Path, the PBS Frontline on Cheney allegedly starts here in 30 minutes. I'll check and see if gets pulled here in my town as well.

You mentioned OJ. Back in the day I did tons of work on the murder case. I have a huge file inclusive of newspaper clips, charts, etc. from that era. I wanted to talk about OJ's astrology here or on my website, but the idea of giving him any more "free rent in my head" makes me ill.

The 1984 Neocon crowd has so mained any sane vision of our constitutional principles (and refined mores or aethetic appreciation for truth/humanity) to where opposites seem to have become American virtues. Torture is the New America. War is Peace. Death is Life. Kill Kids with no SCHIP money in order to save them. Lies are truth. mAnn Coulter is a woman...bwaaahahaa! I'm sorry. I had to throw that in there.

Have a good night everybody. /Claudia

Hmmm interesting aspects between Larry Craig and the GOP? Larry Craig does have some interesting aspects with the GOP Chart, (July 6, 1854 12:00pm, Jackson, MI) but amazing aspects with the USA chart, not the least of which is Jupiter conjunct the US Neptune in the 9th house and square the US Mars and his Neptune squares the US Venus and Jupiter and now his progressed Jupiter conjuncts his natal Neptune, there is a ton of confusion and denial around this man and he is likely to be able to weather it through with his hypocrisy intact, he believes the lies he’s told himself, for the time being. An interesting side bar (at least to me) is the yod transiting Pluto is setting up between Larry’s Mars at 28 Taurus and Sun at 27 Cancer with T-Pluto inconjuncting them both, giving him the determination to not let anyone move him out of the Senate. He will stubbornly cling to his goal no matter what, even if he makes fools out of the GOP. It’s the US Mars (21 Gemini) square Neptune (22 Virgo) from the 7th to the 8th house with both feet in the 12th, that makes it easier for all of us to lie to ourselves in this country and to overlook that which makes us uncomfortable. America will let him get away with it, because strangely enough we are beginning to lose our lust for witch hunts.

The progressed Jupiter in the GOP chart is moving toward a conjunction of the US Pluto, expect the GOP to keep draining money from the US coffers until September 2008 and then it begins to loosen its grip, but it won’t be until after the elections that we will see just how much has been siphoned off. Progressed US Neptune in a trine to natal Pluto will help to cover their tracks, but the US progressed south node passing over US Pluto for sure indicates a loss of money for America, huge. I think that “ill gotten gains” through the years of wars and looting and stealing from others will be taken away.

...cont. below

The GOP’s Sun at 14 degrees Cancer is so tightly intertwined with the US Sun at 13 Cancer, the US people sure attach to the GOP as their “Daddy Party” (the US Sun squares US Saturn) And with the GOP’s Sun in a trine to their Neptune they sure know how to promote and tap into that need of ours. Every time GWB says “Homeland Security” this country practically swoons, even if they won’t admit it, the very word feeds our collective Cancer ego.

As unpopular as it sounds and as much as I dislike saying it, the GOP is not going to be easy to beat this next year and the Dems are going to have to get their heads out of the sand and step up to the plate. Hillary is a concern because the GOP so badly wants to run against her, that would mean they think she’s easy to beat. Tomorrow or the next day I will look at the Dems potential and what is happening with them.

This doesn’t begin to cover what the GOP and the US have going on together but this is as far as I can go tonight. Had to watch Boston Legal.

The Chinese are mad at us because Bush met with the Dali Lama; Putin released a statement that every nation (e.g. Iran) has the right to pursue peaceful nuclear power; Hillary and Rudy are both issuing warnings to Iran -- I think Pat QOP & Pat B have the right idea about tunneling to Canada!

Anyway, thanks everyone for some very scintilating and fast moving conversation!

Let me add one more thing to Anon's list above. James Carville (Bill Clinton's go to guy to win) says Jeb Bush will be the GOP candidate. Tunnel away, let me know where you start, I will bring a shovel

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/10/16/carville-jeb-bush-will-be-gop-nominee/

Randi Rhodes Jan 28, 1959. No birthtime, and this is from Wikipedia. Saturn just moved off square to Pluto, Pluto just moved off square to Moon. She could be born with one of the Cardinal signs rising, that would make sense in light of the Mars in Cancer retrgrade transit.

I don't think this was some invidious plot by the GOP to "silence" Rhodes or anyone else. Sad to say that random violence occurs quite often in big inner cities like New York. Very interesting that she would be attacked in the post-Rudy period, when crime dropped dramatically. Also interesting that this would happen only days after the tiff between Bhakti and my self over this very issue. The proof is in the pudding I suppose.

something to add to the theory all US presidents are related.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,302509,00.html

Lynne Cheney: Dick Cheney, Barack Obama Distant Cousins.

On News Scope Al Gore is being analyzed; why he is an environmentalist now and why he will not be a presidential candidate or president. I think the assessment is right on!!

..As a savvy horse trader, he will most likely throw his abundant political capital behind the candidate who most supports his campaign against global warming. .. He is a smart hores trader!!! and he knows on which side the bred is buttered.

I do not agree with your positive assessment of him, sorry.

Claudia, in your astrological opinion, do you think the Democrats will be successful in overriding President Bush's veto on SCHIP tomorrow? Word on the Hill is, despite a multi-million dolar campaign on the part of Congressional Democrats to pressure key GOP Congress members to go along, the House still falls short of the votes they need. I'm interested in reading what you and anyone else has to say about the astrology of the situation and if your projections turn out accurate. Thanks.

Concerning Senator Larry Craig, I think his situation is quite interesting. Assuming that he is gay, does that mean they he must also advocate for gay marriage? Afterall, there are many straight people who don't believe in marriage at all, and many people in this country are quick to point out countries in Europe who don't either. I think the argument that says that if you go this way or that, you must then be for marriage in that direction right on down the line is again, interesting.

Also, I think that the Mike Rogers "outing" of Craig could be problematic on a whole host of levels. Many men who engage in gay sex don't consider themselves gay at all, others struggle to reconcile this with their religious and/or other philosophical views. What if Craig committed suicide as a result of all this? Would Rogers be in some way responsible for that? If not criminally, at least in terms of journalism?

Morgana, regarding the Bushes and the Clintons, and the rest of the group, there are probably some sort of Roman baths where they all meet, consolidate, coordinate, and have a good laugh on all of us. Can't you just picture that? They're all just "good friends", and we are the unwashed streaming in to watch the latest drama or be recruited for minor roles.

Claudia, Hillary does have the chops! When I watch Hillary, I can see greatness in her. So far though she has been disappointing. Hillary has supported the scenario of the US being strictly a consumer society whether we like it or not. This is such an enormous move in the camp of the cheap labor conservatives. Any leader that pushes her country to give up their ability to support themselves, create for themselves, work for themselves is using those chops for people who are not the citizens of her country, and without their permission. I loved Bill Clinton, but that one moment, watching him walk into the WTO meeting in defiance of screaming protesters has stuck with me. The Clintons sold out on some larger scale I think.

Thanks to all of you for such interesting and insightful posts!

.........

Many in the US Military think Bush and Cheney are out of control

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,511492,00.html

http://salon.com/tech/htww/2007/10/16/super_conduit/

Super Conduit to the rescue!

Ever since Ben Bernanke and the Federal Reserve juiced the stock market with their 50-point rate cut on Sept. 18, Wall Street has been radiating a surreal warm glow. The housing bust, so obviously the catalyst for the economic dislocations of the summer -- the subprime mortgage meltdown, the credit crunch, the terrible August trials of the quant funds -- was only getting worse, but investors just didn't seem to care.

Then came the news on Monday that three of Wall Street's biggest banks are ganging up together, backed by the express encouragement of the Treasury Department, to create a "Master Liquidity Enhancement Vehicle" -- a so-called super conduit. The MLEC is designed to address the still lingering problem that there are an awful lot -- maybe around $400 billion worth -- of investment securities on the market that no one wants to buy. Such a state of affairs is known as "illiquidity." The great fear is that if the owners of these securities started unloading their holdings at rock-bottom prices that could attract buyers, a severe market crash would soon be forthcoming.

More...

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/10/12/flying_into_data_hell/
US demands air passengers ask its permission to fly

Under new rules proposed by the Transport Security Administration (TSA), all airline passengers would need advance permission before flying into, through, or over the United States regardless of citizenship or the airline's national origin.

http://www.regulations.gov/fdmspublic/ContentViewer?objectId=09000064802ad5b0&disposition=attachment&contentType=pdf

More...

This sounds like another Rethug bait & switch to me:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/16/AR2007101602361.html?nav=rss_politics

Cap'n Sally, up there just a little ways, you said:
"I think that “ill gotten gains” through the years of wars and looting and stealing from others will be taken away."

I want to believe you meant they will have to give it back and pay in other ways, too, but that's what I want to believe. What, exactly, did you intend?

Many thanks.

No, I don't think they will have to give it back Shy, wish it were. I would say an economic collapse while the "wealth" is being redistribute and it will spread all over most of the world

Gore: No Bid for Presidency

Former US Vice-President Al Gore has ruled out again making a late entry into the 2008 presidential race.

In an interview with Norwegian broadcaster NRK, he said he would not make a fresh bid for the White House.

Mr Gore told NRK he wanted to focus on his climate change campaigning, which won him a Nobel Peace Prize last week.

--snip--

Mr Gore told NRK it was a "great honour" to be awarded the prize for his climate campaigning.

Asked how it would affect his political future, he replied: "I don't have plans to be a candidate again so I don't really see it in that context at all.

"I'm involved in another kind of campaign. It's a global campaign to change the way people think about the climate crisis."

More: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7048370.stm

Can't say I blame him, really. Were I in his shoes, I wouldn't want to clean up after the 8 years worth of utter incompetence and NeoConservative trash that Bush and Co have dumped on this country.

Sadly, America just isn't ready for the man. But it does seem that the rest of the world is listening to him.

I just saw that Neo on the BBC. I have to admit it's a disappointment particularly when looking at the candidates we have. James Carville thinks Jeb Bush should run for the GOP that he could excite the GOP base. Right now, it looks like we cannot get away from Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton. It's discouraging. But we will go onward and eventually I think upward. I believe Gore would have won it, I still believe that, but I am not looking for it to happen at this point.

It's just darned exciting to come here and see the great posts and links, the addition of Claudia to the discourse -- well, AWESOME!

Sally answered your question, Shy. And, i wonder if payback will be something like playing it forward. On a spirit/energy level, i have often wondered if these nitwits made some sort of strange contract before bodily manifesting. Are we -- huamnity -- supposed to see our own ugly faces in the cosmic mirror? If so, no amount of blush makes this time seem rosy.

The denial is simply the same thing he has said all along. There are dueling diaries on Daily Kos. Until/unless Malone who runs the algore-08 website says so, Al is still in, Malone was told to stop the draft back in 2004 explicitly, and a year before the first primaries. Malone hasn't been told that yet.

Sally, I think I will go with the lunar eclipse square Craig's 5 degree Sag moon. Remember he was arrested in June, and never said a word to anyone, not evem his wife, until six weeks later when he knew that he was going to be outed by the media. The moon represents the public I believe, and that was when the public first learned of the scandal. I feel a little sad for him, because I know that he wanted to protect his family at all costs. Just sad for all concerned.

Crystal, the sadness you feel for Larry Craig is a reflection of the kindness and empathy in you which shows you're a better class of person. But his family is suffering because he has made them suffer by lying and betraying them. The betrayal is from living the lie by acting out his guilt and shame by punishing the gay community, making his family think he was something he isn't. His wife may stand by him now, but the wound he has inflicted on her goes much deeper than she's probably aware of. He's not the person she thought he was. Their marriage is based on an illusion that's just been destroyed. He was never protecting his family. He was protecting himself from exposure for what he really is, and doing it by punishing those who remind him of his shame. For him to say otherwise is just more self protection. He has a lifetime of using his family and he's still doing it.

Sally, I'd love to see us take a hammer to the whole two party system and smash it all up to pieces, literally.

I know it's on an esoteric level, but it is rather disheartening to see the strength of the emotional influence that the GOP (and even Bush for that matter, given his birthday) has over the US, just by virtue of their date of incorporation. They've totally trashed this country, picked the public's pockets empty, and yet somehow the people still have some sort of perverse affinity for them. Just like the battered wife who goes running back into the arms of her abusive husband. And the Dems are little more than insipid enablers at this point, egging her on to do so by blundering default.

Gore was sort of my last hope for President in 2008 as well, but it seems he's smart enough to realize the mess he'd be getting himself into. Good on him, because this country has twice in a row proven that it doesn't deserve competent, good-hearted and intelligent leadership, and he'd run into blockheaded opposition, or worse, every step of the way in trying to get us there.

Hilary or Jeb? What difference does it really make at this point? They both answer to the same elitist, plutocratic interests that have no intention whatsoever of permitting the war in Iraq to end or anything beneficial to occur that might truly benefit humanity as a whole. Those dark, craven souls only care of their own thorougly corrupt and black-hearted ambitions.

Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton... so it goes. The people still seem love this bad real life soap opera, or else they don't yet despise it enough to try and change the channel.

Somewhere in the cobwebs of my mind I recall, that Congress passed a new rule that if they resigned their office they would lose their retirement benefits and medical insurance? Which if they left office at end of term they would have retirement checks and medical coverage till they and their family dropped dead...believe if was after Mark Foley resigned and got all the perks for being a Congress Critter that the new rule was put in place. I believe Craig'ers voted for it. He'll not giving up lifetime benefits, then he'd have to pay through the nose like the rest of us. He'll stay till end of term.

Me, I am employed full time and pay roughly $1500.00 a month to cover my spouses medical insurance. I'm told it's so high because we're in our late 50's. Gotta gouge us while they can.

Well said Lunaoscura. I know he's a hypocrite by any stretch of the imagination, but I guess the sex drive is so strong, that they don't think about the consequences of their actions. If he is gay, he would have been better off just admitting to it when he realized it, and not be living the lie that he is today. So many families are destroyed by an act of indiscretion, that it is just a tragedy. I was looking at his wife who was desperately trying to believe him, but I am sure deep down inside she has her doubts, and there's the children too.

Some crazy things have been happening in Calif. recently, like the fiery truck pile-up in the tunnel, and now this.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071017/ap_on_re_us/sandstorm_pileup

I know this may sound simplistic, but transiting Saturn (hard taskmaster/grim reaper) at 4 Virgo is now opposing the Aug.28 eclipse point. I started to feel its effects about a week ago (12th house Mars 5 Sag, 9th house Saturn 4 Virgo), and it is brutal. To add to the mix, Pluto is hanging between my Jupiter and Asc. I have my seatbelt fastened, because I knew it was going to be a bumpy ride. Hope I live through it.

Burmese junta defiant despite fresh sanctions

As a UN special envoy tours region to drum up support, authorities say they are still detaining protesters.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/1017/p99s01-duts.html

I am presently watching the 14th Dalai Lama pleading with China to compromise and allow his people to have spiritual freedom on Tibet. He is also pleading with all of us to do our part to correct global warming and the huge economic imbalance. He has accepted a Congressional Gold Medal from the US Congress.

Interesting that the Dalai Lama is in D.C. at this time getting the Congressional Medal of Honor and meeting with Bush. The Chinese are now upset. How ironical. I'm teaching the History of Buddhist Philosophy this term and we are this week in the middle of watching the film Kundun. I've seen that film so many times now but it never gets old. There is a scene when a Chinese General lectures the young Dalai Lama and tells him: "We are here to liberate you." After destroying 90% of the monasteries and murdering one fifth of the population I'm sure the Tibetan people feel about as liberated as . . . the Iraqi people today.

Strange that Bush and the Dalai Lama share the same birthday...

Pat C, Now watch the Screaming Heads (limbaugh and Hannity) do their best to shred the Dalai Lama. This is becoming way too easily predictable. They'll surely say how the Dalai travels all over the world in jets, being a hypocrit, polluting the planet for his own personal agenda. Yada yada...

"....Kundun. I've seen that film so many times now but it never gets old."

My all time favorite movie, because it never gets old. He will return.

linaoscura, I can hear them now! That will surely get "Worst Person in the Word" on Keith's show! But Limbaugh knows that drill. :-D))

Oops, that should have been "Worst Person in the World".

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0710/S00266.htm

American Cassandra - Susan Lindauer's Story

"Above all, you must realize that if you go ahead with this invasion, Osama bin Laden will triumph, rising from his grave or seclusion. His network will be swollen with fresh recruits, and other charismatic individuals will seek to build upon his model, multiplying those networks. And the United States will have delivered the death blow to itself. Using your own act of war, Osama and his cohort will irrevocably divide the hearts and minds of the Arab Street from moderate governments in Islamic countries that have been holding back the tide. Power to the people, what we call "democracy," will secure the rise of fundamentalists. Susan Lindauer's last letter to Andrew Card, January 6, 2003*"

Susan Lindauer sent her eleventh and last letter on the Iraqi political situation to then Bush chief of staff Andrew Card on January 6, 2003, just two months before General Franks gave the command to invade on March 20, 2003. She'd sent ten other letters on Iraq to Card, her second cousin, over a two year period.

In her final letter she made a prophetic plea to head off the war. Through Lindauer's back channel contacts at the Iraqi United Nations mission, Lindauer said that she'd gathered a great deal of information. She had good reasons to believe that the Iraqis were ready to offer huge concessions on inspectors and on other United States demands. As the opening quotation shows, she correctly predicted what other knowledgeable observers believed. While the U.S. efforts in Afghanistan had al Qaeda on its knees, an Iraqi military defeat would lead to a civil chaos. This would provide the basis for a resurrection of bin Laden's operation and then revive the al Qaeda terrorist risk to the United States.

More...

.......

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/101707B.shtml

Parliament in Turkey Votes to Allow Iraq Incursion By Sebnem Arsu and Sabrina Tavernise The New York Times

Thursday 18 October 2007

Istanbul - Turkey’s Parliament voted today to give the government authority to send troops into northern Iraq, moving this NATO country one step closer to a military confrontation with Iraq over Kurdish rebels who hide there.

Turkish lawmakers voted 507 to 19 in favor of the motion, which was supported by all but one of Turkey’s political parties and seemed to reflect broadly the wishes of the Turkish public.

It gives the government of Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan a year in which it can send troops across the border to fight ethnic Kurds who carry out attacks in Turkey from northern Iraq.

But even as the Parliament voted, officials in several different countries were working strenuously to avert military action, and Turkish officials said that the motion’s passage did not necessarily mean it would be applied.

More...

Merc Rx strikes again. I went to post, it disappeared ... what else is new. All of my appointments this week have had snafus.

Anyway, re. the FDIC link, if you have more than $100k in any bank institution, now would be a good time to go through a thorough analysis of how much of your money is "safe" with FDIC insurance. When Netbank failed, the press release stated ... all FDIC insured deposits were transferred to the bank that acquired the assets. Note than if you had more than $100k in the bank, tough luck and get in line...

http://www.fdic.gov/bank/individual/failed/NetBank.html

Sally -- Thanks. Very good work on the GOP chart vis a vis Larry Craig. I copied your text to my HD for reading and study later on today. Will get back to the blog later on. Under a deadline crunch!

Morgana, thanks so much for the email btw. I got it but have been very busy so I hope you don't mind my thanking you here.

Craig was born with Venus and Uranus conjunct in Gemini. I've read that such combinations can incline one toward being gay/lesbian or bi-sexual. Has anyone else read or heard this?

Again I have to respectfully disagree with the view that "outing" Craig, if indeed he is gay, was somehow a good or necessary thing. Again, assuming he's gay, what does that have to do with gay marriage, for example? That's like saying if you're straight, you must automatically support straight marriage, and we know that's not true due to so many straight people having problems with marriage as we've known it.

Sally, Karl Rove once said that the United States is essentially a center right country, his point being that the GOP will always have an upperhand when it comes to winning big elections. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think there have been more Republican Presidents than Democratic, and this is especially true for the modern era. Only two Democrats in the past 30 years have won presidential elections, one of whom only served one term.

I think the astrology you recounted regarding the two major parties speaks in vivid fashion to all of this. Although the USA has the Moon in Aquarius, and it seems that the Democratic Party has it too, it seems to me there's no getting around the dual Sun Sign (and degree) focus between the GOP and the USA's charts.

Hillary's natal astrology in my opinion doesn't seem to mesh well with that of the country, although it does work well with her party. This could explain why she has such high "negatives"?

Timothy, I too saw the film Kundun, and have to respectfully disagree, there is no comparison at all between the US invasion of Iraq and the Chinese invasion of Tibet. Who destroyed the Gold Dome Mosque in Samarrah last year? Who commits suicide bombings everyday killing tens if not hundreds? Who killed the Yazidi in the Kurdish part of Iraq? Was all that the handiwork of US forces?

Back in the Summer, Bush made sure that the religious rights of Wiccans were protected. Now he's conferred on the Dalai Lama the Congressional Medal of Honor. Is he for religious freedom? I think the evidence speaks for itself.

I'm sorry, I put "Timothy" in the "signed" part of the last post, I wrote the above. Sorry about that Timothy.

Here's a dialogue for starting an new party.
Nancy Pelosi, Public Enemy Number One
by Margaret Kimberley
( be sure to read the comments below. Cindy Sheehan & David Lindorf both weigh in to the discussion.)

When would he planetary positions be in the most auspicious position to do that in the near future?

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/10/17/4629/
QOP

October 17, 2007

A Genetic Disaster

By Kate Mucci

A Genetic Disaster

On a recent episode of Out There TV, we interviewed Dr. Gary Null, who just released a documentary called “Gulf War Syndrome". Even as the pundits cried out indignantly about the conditions at Walter Reed, nobody addressed the larger problem … that tens of thousands of veterans have been injured, not just by bullets and bombs, but by the very air they breathe in the war zones.

As is poignantly and graphically shown in Null’s documentary, the U.S. administration is using nuclear weapons in its war of terror. Yes, it’s true. We, who invaded a sovereign nation allegedly because of its vast stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction, are blithely using exactly such weapons.

Of course this is illegal according to every convention to which we are a party, but talking about legality misses the point. The crisis about to be precipitated by the indiscriminate use of nuclear armaments against the basically defenseless inhabitants of at least two countries will affect all of humanity. Its scope can barely be imagined.

http://www.opednews.com/maxwrite/print_friendly.php?p=opedne_kate_muc_071016_a_genetic_disaster.htm

Hi wv, that was a great link ... Vietnam is still suffering, what 30 years later? from all of the Agent Orange, Napalm, massive pesticides to clear their forests (decimate them), water poisoning and the list goes on .... of course our vets suffer too, from alot of the same things. They were exposed too. War is a terrible thing. I was talking with my Dad the other day (Vietnam Vet) about war and told him that war was much worse now than it's ever been because the munitions have gotten so much more terrible. Anyway .... it's like the old song that I used to love so much (and still do) ... "WAR! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing!

Marta, war is good for one thing. It makes peace look really really good.

Here you go, Marta. There is a bump about 3/4 of the way through, but it's not bad. Song still rings true. So true.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZgHH72G8wQ

Just one more, Marta. Les McCann & Eddie Harris and another great anti-war song. McCann starts singing at just about two minutes in. Great song and very alive today--almost 40 years later. Even a line about twisted children killing frogs (remind you of anyone?)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OawoYrv9OUY

Sooner or later the evil people lose.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/14/AR2007101401248.html

Torture Center to Bear Witness
Argentina Is Converting Its Notorious Navy School To Human Rights Memorial

[snip]
During the dictatorship, between 9,000 and 30,000 people were "disappeared" -- meaning that they are missing and thought dead. Many are thought to have spent time at the Navy School, where surviving detainees such as Basterra say they were tortured.

Basterra toured the campus last week for the first time since the military left. In a building where he said he took many of the photos now on display, he gazed out from an upstairs window and said he remembered standing in that exact spot in 1982, watching officers carry the body of a prisoner they had killed from the infirmary building across the road.

The infirmary was also where many female detainees are believed to have given birth, only to have their babies taken from them and adopted by military families. There are thought to be as many as 500 such cases, and more than 80 children have tracked down the truth of their histories in recent years thanks to the help of an advocacy group, the Association of the Grandmothers of the Plaza de Mayo.

Estela de Carlotto, founder of the group and the mother of a disappeared detainee who gave birth while imprisoned, toured the Navy School this month just days after the military exited.

"This is historic, one of the great successes of the democracy we currently live under -- to take possession of a place that was a torture center, where many of our grandchildren were born, and turn it into a center for remembrance," said de Carlotto, 77, who has not been able to track down her own grandson, who would now be 29. "More than anything, it gives young people the opportunity to understand what happened so they can live in freedom in the future."

more...

Michael--Are you actually defending the invasion of Iraq? Are we really there to liberate the Iraqis?

I've written on this on a number of occasions. Instead of debating with you on this forum I will point you to my writings and then if you want to continue you can email me off this forum. The first piece, written in the weeks leading up to the invasion, never got published, but I think it it still relevant:
http://hawaii.ms11.net//Freeman3-25.htm

These are later articles covering the Iraq war.
http://www.counterpunch.org/freeman09172003.html
http://www.counterpunch.org/freeman10122004.html
http://www.counterpunch.org/freeman11262005.html
http://www.counterpunch.org/freeman02032007.html

In short, I think our invasion of Iraq is very similar to the Chinese invasion of Tibet. Sure there are important differences, but the common point is that they were both put forth as wars of liberation, when in both cases what was really at issue was control of natural resources.

Thanks Timothy, I remember the first article when you sent it either here or to me. I am sure most of the new people don't know who you are or your credentials which makes your writings all that more impressive due to the massive amounts of research you've put into your work, not to mention the years. Certainly your level of expertise is beyond mine in your ability to bring historical context and comparison to different periods of history and I sure love reading your work. Thanks.

Shy, I cannot thank you enough for posting those songs, "War" is a particular favorite. Thank you.

Yay, Timothy! And I don't mean to be nosy, but do you have a white horse?

Yessum, Cap'n Sally, those are two great contributions to the anti-war songs legacy.

Oh Timothy, what a great opportunity to tell you thank you for your writings. Thank you for such thoughtful articles. I've enjoyed and been inspired by your work.

Thank you for this too. Lao Tzu always makes it all so clear to me.

When a country obtains great power,
it becomes like the sea:
all streams run downward into it.
The more powerful it grows,
the greater the need for humility.
Humility means trusting the Tao,
thus never needing to be defensive.

A great nation is like a great man:
When he makes a mistake, he realizes it.
Having realized it, he admits it.
Having admitted it, he corrects it.
He considers those who point out his faults
as his most benevolent teachers.
He thinks of his enemy as the shadow that he himself casts.

If a nation is centered in the Tao,
if it nourishes its own people
and doesn't meddle in the affairs of others,
it will be a light to all nations in the world..

Lao Tzu, Tao te Ching, Stephen Mitchell translation

Hi Pat C, war does absolutely make peace look beautiful! It's a study in contrasts!

Shy, thanks for the youtube links! Great songs!!!!!

Hello, been away from AW for a while! Just couldn't resist posting the following - although you guys may have already seen it... Tad Mann emailed me a link this morning...

http://www.albumoftheday.com/facebook/

Watch it until the end. Very interesting and yet somewhat predictable.

And in that vein I think this is why I spent most of the day yesterday talking to techs to regain the hotmail ( Now WINDOWS LIVE!!!) I have used for 11 years.
Yes, I downloaded Mozilla Firefox, and it works just fine,I can even change the text color & type size in my letters..BUT I'm sure there's a chip imbedded somewhere watching, since the change was forced by Microsoft Corpse.!

NSA Likely Reading Windows Software In Your Computer
by Sherwood Ross

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/10508#comment-81072
QOP

Thanks for the record-keepimg Timothy. All those articles bear witness, and bear repeating. Nobody in Iraq wanted war with America, and they took great pains to avoid it. Do you remember the exchange that was televised between the American amd Iraqi university students? Neither side wanted war, but none of their arguments could prevail upon but pig-headed Bush and his administration. They just ignored everybody and pressed on with their plans. Why? Because plans to invade Iraq were in the making long before Bush and his thugs were looking for excuses to invade. Not to mention the bold-faced lies that were told in order to accomplish it. Yet even today, many stop short of calling Bush and his henchmen liars, but in short, that is exactly what they all were, and continue to be today; and I might add General-Betray-Us as an accomplice to this list.

1988: Bush On National Guard

http://democrats.org/a/2007/10/1988_bush_on_na.php

From the archives comes this footage of George W. Bush at the Republican convention dismissing allegations that Dan Quayle had received help getting into the National Guard during Vietnam.

Bush's statement that America "could have done better in Vietnam" if we had deployed the National Guard overseas is more distressing considering the stress the occupation of Iraq has put on National Guard troops across the country.

Meanwhile, Democrats in Congress are trying to ensure that the National Guard soldiers from Minnesota who were sent home one day before they became eligible for full GI benefits will receive those benefits after all.

UPDATE (by Mike): In the video, Bush is asked whether anybody ever made phone calls on his behalf to get him into the National Guard. He says no, he doesn't think so.

But as the AP reported back in 1999, "The former speaker of the Texas House of Representatives acknowledged Monday that he called the head of the Texas Air National Guard in 1968 to recommend George W. Bush for a pilot slot during the Vietnam War."

NEOBuckeye, Michael and others who are aware of how pointless the two-party system is, I totally agree. I may even register Republican just to vote for Ron Paul as he seems to be the only candidate besides Kucinich that is outside the establishment. Please, no Hillary. She's made it clear she will continue the Iraq war and she's no better than Pelosi in this regard. Also, check out who she gets her money from. I never thought I'd see the day that a Republican candidate be anti-war while a Democratic one was not, but these days everything seems to be flipping upside down. None of the "acceptable" candidates care anything about us average folks, I guarantee you.

Also, I hate Mercury retrograde.

Gilgamesh

Hi Timothy, I definitely will checkout your pieces but I'll decline on taking this discussion elsewhere, since other non-astrological discussions, almost always one-sided, take place here all the time.

You're making the argument that the People's Republic of China and the United States of America are one and the same regarding their war actions in Tibet and Iraq respectively, I'm saying that they are nothing alike in the least.

I have asked you several pointed questions, to which you have not answered, and neither has anyone else. No problem, I can ask again:

Please tell me who destroyed the Golden Dome Mosque in Feb of last year Timothy? Was it the work of US forces?

Please tell me who killed hundreds of Yazidis in the north of Iraq earlier this Summer, and injured upwards of a thousand? Again, was that at the hands of US forces?

Please tell me, Timothy, who is responsible for Iraqis going to market, going about their business, being blown to bits everyday, by suicide bombers? Being taken hostage for ransom? Being ethnically cleasned because they're the wrong branch of Islam? Did the US Army do that?

To say that the USA made some major mistakes in Iraq is a given. To argue that they should not have gone in is legitimate. But to suggest that its a bid to lockup oil reserves, when they could have gotten the same oil for a lot cheaper from Saddam Hussein himself, is to either by grossly misinformed, or disenguous. Either is just as bad. Looking forward to your responses. Thanks.

Gilgamesh, they say there is only one party, the money party and there is a left wing and a right wing of that party. It sure seems that way. What's that old song "give me something to believe in" I have always said that when I die I am going to straighten out Mercury so it never goes retrograde and blow Saturn right out of the sky. I have little if any appreciation of the restrictions of either aspect.

Timothy, Advice: ignore the troll. There's a reason he hasn't gotten a response from anyone else. If he had even a modicum of pride he would be too embarrassed to keep pretending that no one gets it after all we've said in the last two threads. He thinks he's smarter than everyone else, which in itself is proof that he isn't very bright.

In the context of Sally's suggestion that we don't write off the chance of the Republicans winning the election

Here's some food for thought

Will Dems Commit Political Suicide in '08?:
An Address to Democrats Abroad By Bernard Weiner, The Crisis Papers Democrats who live and work abroad tend to mirror the concerns and frustrations of the activist Dem base back home perplexed by the party's....
http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_bernard__071017_will_dems_commit_pol.htm

It's kinda long so here's the money quote

3. WHAT LIES AHEAD FOR DEMOCRATS?

So now we come to the future of our party, so filled with hope after November of last year, so frustrating and irritating to so many in the interim.

The Democratic leadership seems to be utilizing, to use a football term, a "prevent defense" strategy. They see the Republicans imploding in one scandal after another (sex, financial misconduct, political disasters), see the war in Iraq going nowhere except into a political and civil-war maelstrom, see the awful candidates the GOP is putting up (in one recent GOP poll, "none of the above" won). They look at all this self-destructive Republican behavior and seem to be saying: Why should we stick our necks out with any major "offense" initiatives? Let's just watch the Republicans' self-immolate and in November waltz into the White House and grow our majorities in the House and Senate?

But with these "loyal Bushies," who are always on the offense, if you only play "prevent" you run the very real risk of a catastrophic defeat as events change on the ground prior to the election.

I think it's true that if present trends continue, the Democrats will do very well in Senate and House races next November, and will extend their control of the Congress, maybe even obtaining a veto-proof majority. Theoretically, the Dems should take the White House as well. But, even without considering major changes beyond their control that could affect the presidential race -- such as an attack on Iran or major developments in Iraq, or a real or invented "terrorist" incident at home, or a successful manipulation of the Electoral College vote into congressional-district voting in key states instead of winner-take-all, etc. -- even without all that, the Democrats, as is their pattern in recent years, could well snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

On that note....Dems cave on immunity for telecoms

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/17/AR2007101702438.html?hpid=topnews

Senate Democrats and Republicans reached agreement with the Bush administration yesterday on the terms of new legislation to control the federal government's domestic surveillance program, which includes a highly controversial grant of legal immunity to telecommunications companies that have assisted the program, according to congressional sources.

Disclosure of the deal followed a decision by House Democratic leaders to pull a competing version of the measure from the floor because they lacked the votes to prevail over Republican opponents and GOP parliamentary maneuvers.

Putin doesn't.

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L18392257.htm

U.S. should name date to withdraw from Iraq -Putin

Sally,

The 2:16 am time for Hillary should be 2:18 am and you can take it to the bank.

Look for significant event for her around November 30 this year.

Bob

Just a thought. Could she pick up an endorsement from
from Al Gore then? Become the nominee at the convention and ask him to be her running mate? If he accepted and they won we have Hillary, Al, and Bill in the Whitehouse again!

Indulge me.

Bob

Stan, add to the tendency of the Democrats to snatch defeat from the jaws of success the new and improved reactionary Supreme Court mixup with the tendency to steal elections and the determination to hold on to power, and it isn't difficult to see the outcome. I think that's why astrologers are having a difficult time predicting the next election. It might turn out to be that if the republicans lose they'll insist on taking it all the way to their Supreme Court again.
Anyone who believes that the last few elections (since 2000) were really as close as they've been made out to be doesn't understand the Rovian philosophy, which is to make it look like the elections were close.

Bob, what are your sources for Hillary's birth time?

Bush at 24% approval now

When Clinton was impeached, his approval was 72%

Congress approval today at all-time low

http://digg.com/politics/Gallup_Poll_Congress_Approval_Rating_at_All_Time_Low

No refuge from anything: bye.

patb, what are you talking about? You're not leaving are you?

Thanks Bob for the Hillary birthtime. And yes Al could endorse her but I cannot in my wildest dreams believe that Al Gore would accept the VP spot from her. I'm trying to figure out what would be a compelling enough reason for him to step down from the world stage for the presidency. I have fantasized that Hillary is a trojan horse for Gore and she takes the heat and he steps forward in May and the convention becomes brokered, but that's just a fantasy. The Election day itself has a Mars/Neptune square almost to arc, from the 1st to the 3rd house. When I see that, I see a voting issue all over again, plus confusion and possibly lies, (probably lies)or old tricks used for the last time.

The sign of the majority of Presidents breaks down to 5 Scorpio's and 5 Aquarius, the rest divided around the zodiac. However Mars in Leo or Mars in Scorpio is highly popular amoung the voters, they most often vote for someone with Mars in Scorpio or Leo, (although not many Presidents have had their Sun sign in Leo) even if it's progressed, Hillary fits both catagories with her Sun in Scorpio and her Mars in Leo. Not many if any, Presidents however with a Moon in Pisces and Hillary's Moon is in Pisces, however by the Election day, Hillary's progressed Moon will be in Gemini (not a popular sign for our presidents) and the Solar Arc Moon will be in Taurus, very close to the 2000 Jupiter/Saturn conjunction in Taurus, as is the degrees of the election day Mars/Neptune square. Could this be our last real election for the President of the US. Anyone elected this next cycle will be a product of money/media and elite not a product of the People.

Gore was asked about whether he would accept any kind of appointment in the government and he categorically said "NO", that he wouldn't even consider it. Which shows that he can say no. He is saying exactly what he means. He has no plans to run so far. I think he doesn't want to run, but too many people are begging him and he does see what horrible situation the country is in. He told us himself in his Assault On Reason.

go back up a ways and everyone should download Lynda Hill's link. Thanks Lynda, I hope every takes the opportunity to see that. It will give you pause.

Lynda and Sally, Thanks. And they say we're paranoid.
Evidently we're not paranoid enough....

Linda, yikes re. your Facebook link (but not surprised). By this time they probably already know if we're right or left handed, along with everything else. That gives me a really slimy feeling.

OK, folks, let's all line up to kiss the hem of his garment. Senator Dodd has put a hold on that awful bill that would provide amnesty to the phone companies for illegally spying on the whole world, or that majority part of it that uses phones.

Hooray!

Once you've finished celebrating, here's something to put you back on the paranoia drift:
http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2007/10/bush-quip-might.html

Marta,
See my post up at 2:17 AM. After spendin the entire day with techs instead of painting, the bottom line is probably, My hotmail is now accessable even on a MAC!
QOP

Shy, are you sure? OMG this is so fantastic. I am calling Senator Dodd and say "thank you."

The Dems however could not over-ride the S-chip veto and as to your second post Shy, I didn't even need to read it to feel paranoid about him declaring Marshall Law and staying as our dictator. Maybe that's why so many republicans are jumping ship now, maybe they know what's coming and want to get out of the way of a fall out. Don't want to be targeted.

Sorry, Cap'n Sally, I was so excited I forgot to provide the link:
http://tpmelectioncentral.com/2007/10/exclusive_senator_chris_dodd_will_put_a_hold_on_telecom_immunity_bill.php

http://tpmelectioncentral.com/2007/10/exclusive_senator_chris_dodd_will_put_a_hold_on_telecom_immunity_bill.php

Exclusive: Senator Chris Dodd Will Put A Hold On Telecom Immunity Bill

Senator Chris Dodd plans to put a hold on the Senate FISA renewal bill because it reportedly grants retroactive immunity to telephone companies for any role they played in the Bush administration's warrantless eavesdropping program, Election Central has learned.

Dodd will send a letter to Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid this afternoon informing him of his decision. Dodd also plans to put up a page today at his campaign Web site where opponents of the immunity provision can register their opposition.

“Later today Senator Dodd will be sending a letter to Majority Leader Reid informing him that he plans to put a ‘hold’ on a bill that would provide for retroactive amnesty for telecom giants that were complicit in the Bush Administration’s assault on the United States Constitution," Dodd spokesman Hari Sevugan told Election Central. "Senator Dodd said that he would do what he could do to stop this bill, and with this announcement he has again shown that he delivers results.”

By doing this, Dodd can effectively hold up the telecom immunity bill, because bills are supposed to have unanimous consent in the Senate before going forward. One Senator can make it very difficult to bring a bill to the floor by objecting to allowing it to go to a vote.

Dodd's planned action comes amid reports that the Senate Intelligence Committee has reached a deal with the White House...

More....

This one contains Dodd's statement:
http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/10/18/breaking-dodd-to-put-hold-on-telecom-bill/

A vote for Dodd is a vote for the Constitution & Bill of Rights!

Well, I was so excited I didn't look to see that the deeds of the most wonderful Senator and Presidential candidate had already been posted! Sorry about that, but I did enjoy it. :-)

QOP, yes, I did check out that link, thanks. I can't imagine why you can't get your hotmail on MAC. Have you gone to the Apple website and checked to see if there's a patch? What about calling hotmail? I have a Mac. Sometimes they aren't compatible with everything. There are some sites I can't get on because I don't have Internet explorer (I don't want to have anything from Microsoft if I can help it ... sick of spending money to have everything crash all the time). Love my MAC, even if sometimes it's not so convenient!

Merc Rx, what a week! Everything is bassackwards! I'm running around in a totally FOUL mood.

I want to thank you Sally, Pat C. , Shy and Crystal for your kind comments yesterday. I feel I have to respond, however, and explain that I am really nobody and my credentials are really not much to speak of. I do have a doctorate in philosophy but that, in itself, does not really mean very much. I teach a number of philosophy classes at a small university but as a non-tenure track adjunct lecturer. That means that I am a nobody even in my own department. I'm not even listed in the directory. The fact is I barely manage to survive and that's even an exaggeration. I'd be in a much better situation if I had ever managed to even submit something to a peer-reviewed publication, but it has been extremely difficult to find time for writing while teaching eleven different courses the last six years, while only falling further into debt, unemployed during the summers, surviving by doing odd jobs and sometimes living out of my broken down VW. I've spent what little time I've had for writing producing those online pieces. I don't get paid for doing that and they count for absolutely nothing towards furthering my career and helping me to ever get a real job. I wrote them only because times are desperate and it seemed not in the end really important in these times to write academic pieces for peer-reviewed journals which nobody reads outside of academia. I think that is one of the problems with academia today, especially academic philosophy, that it is so completely irrelevant.
I think the problem with our country is that Americans have never understood what the key to democracy is. Instead they think that democracy has already been accomplished. They don't even realize that democracy will always only be an experiment and it can always turn out to be a failure, which sadly, for the whole world, it is turning out to be. The problem is that America was founded on a contradiction. The first colonists were, of course, religious fundamentalists. They certainly didn't come here with the idea of establishing a democracy. That idea was the product of the Enlightenment, which came to fruition in the next century, and which valued reason over faith. But the people have never understood this and they have been fed a never-ending barrage of propaganda that the most important thing for America is a strong faith. A person could never be elected President without professing a strong faith, while it has been demonstrated over and again, and never more powerfully than with the present imposter, that the love of wisdom counts for so little. I don't think U.S. troops would be in Iraq at all and almost four thousand American families have mourned the loss of their loved ones, nor would over a million Iraqis have been killed as a result of our invasion, nor would the Golden Dome Mosque have been bombed, nor would any of the other atrocities that have resulted from the civil war opened up by our invasion, have occurred at all if so many Americans weren't blinded by faith and money, arrogance and fear, which all prevented an adequate discussion of whether an invasion and occupation could really be justified. The war in Iraq is only the latest evidence that our democracy is failing and that the American people don't even have the slightest clue as to what the key to democracy is.

I'm sorry for going off here, especially about myself. I won't do that again, I just felt I had to set the record straight.

Another film I want to recommend to everyone is "The U.S. vs. John Lennon." I just got it last week and find it to be so relevant to what is going on today. It is really worth watching. I am going to try and show it on our campus soon. One might also check out Democracy Now's interview with Yoko Ono on Wednesday's show. Reagan's election and Lennon's death within the same month is something this country has never recovered from.

Oh ME TOO!
Just FOUL! I did download Firefox browser ( was using Safari) Now it is working I have my hotmail back. It's a little slower, and the bookmarks are awkward, but I just feel if it's compatable with Microsoft it is worrysome!

But I did one good thing today. aFTER THE SS col INCREASE CAME OUT FOR 2008...................suckssssss>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I CALLED A BUNCHA SENATORES, and proposed giving all Sr citizens over 65 a free passport! They thought it was a good idea( it isn't taking any profit away from Corp[se) so it may happen.
We can still get bargins in Canada even with the $'s even...........so It would be a plus.
QOP

Timothy, thanks so much for the response. I was hoping that you would ignore Lunaoscura's juvenile remarks and engage in legitimate, adult conversation. Maybe when she's shown that she can do the same, she is most welcome to join us.

I'm familiar with the Lennon movie, saw it and listened to several interviess with the man who did the work the film is based on. I think history has shown, that when artisans become policy makers, things don't turn out so well. And of course we all know that Nixon hurt himself quite badly behind Watergate.

But on Iraq, we can respectufally agree to disagree. While oil certainly was a consideration, and stated as much by former Fed chairman Alan Greenspan recently, the true reason I think, to invade Iraq was an ideological attempt to forge a Western-style-and-friendly democracy in the heart of the Middle East. And to some extent it worked, if you take into account Lebanon, Libya, Egypt, Qatar, etc. Nor do I agree with your assertion that a million Iraqis were killed, according to the Lancet and others, the actual number is much lower.

Nor am I impressed with your charge that the work of Al-Qaeda, militias and general criminals the sale work of the US military. These people have killed at least as mnay and more often than not, more everyday Iraqis than any US soldier could.

Nevertheless, I applaud your willingness to dialogue. People like Luna should take notes what real academics look like.

Well QOP, here's to hoping that things will settle down and we'll all be in a better frame of mind! As Gilgamesh said above, "I hate Merc Rx!" Glad you got your hotmail up and running ... :)

Michael I haven't had time to read over completely the last few threads but from the bit that I have scanned I think maybe you should consider your own manner of engaging in dialogue as the source of the problem. I invited you to continue a dialogue outside of this site but you want to insist on it here which doesn't seem to be appreciated by anyone here so I will not respond to you further here. All I will ask you here is why would the U.S. be interested at all in establishing at such great cost a Western-style-and-friendly democracy in the heart of the Middle East? We did it just to establish a democracy? The notion is so completely absurd. If there were no oil at stake we would be as much interested in establishing a democracy in the Middle East as we are in Burma. Even if that were the case would that justify war? That is even more absurd. Why also do you not take the Lancet journal seriously when they were respected even by Republicans before this war for their findings regarding the casualties of previous conflicts? That sounds to me like you see what you want to see, and you choose to ignore reputable sources when the facts are inconvenient to your views. That does not seem to reflect an honest willingness to dialogue, which in the end amounts to a willingness to be proved wrong.

I should add that the corporate controllers of this nation have never been any more interested in establishing democracy elsewhere in the world than they are in having a real democracy here at home. The U.S. government has supported brutal dictators against democratically elected leaders whenever it has served their hegemonic interests, and now give lip-service to the idea of democracy in Iraq when it serves those same interests. Was Nixon really interested in democracy in having Allende killed and replacing him with Pinochet? I guess establishing democracy was really the objective in Guatemala in the 50's when the CIA overthrew that government at the behest of American corporate interests. We are in Iraq today because Americans are ignorant of their own history. We never learned the lesson of Vietnam. I asked my students one day after viewing the film The Fog of War if any of them knew how many southeast Asians were killed in the war. Most Americans know very well that we lost some 50,000 killed. No one in the class could answer the question. Finally one person raised their hand and came up with this guess--are you ready for this one--10,000. That was the best guess anyone in my class could come up with. That is really what is wrong with America today--that young people have no more idea of what went down just a generation ago in Vietnam than that. The truth is up to 6 million southeast Asians (Vietnamees, Laotians, Cambodians) died in that war for no good reason. Was it because we were trying to establish a democracy in southeast Asia? No. The government of South Vietnam was not a democracy. What really happened in Vietnam has been obliterated from American consciousness just as the memory of who John Lennon really was and what he stood for has been obliterated.

You're tops with me, Timothy, whether you live in a VW or ride on a white horse. Actually, you could do both, and I'll bet you do. Your thoughts and works are very thorough, well-researched and wise. Your students are very lucky to have you, and I'm sure they know it.

Timothy, Michael doesn't want to continue to dialog with you off the board because he's here to disrupt the board. He's not here to honestly share information or gain any insights. He's just hanging out hoping that he can throw bombs at people and stop our dialogue and sharing of information. Hence Lunaoscura's advice to hit the "troll off" key ... :)

Thanks for your insightful comments. It's always nice to hear another sane soul ...

http://www.esquire.com/print-this/iranbriefing1107

Bomb, bomb, bomb Iran (NOT!). Just to show you what hypocrites these people are ... absolutely insane!

Timothy,

Seventy-Eight

Under heaven nothing is more soft and yielding than water.
Yet for attacking the solid and strong, nothing is better;
It has no equal.
The weak can overcome the strong;
The supple can overcome the stiff.
Under heaven, everyone knows this,
Yet no one puts it into practice.
Therefore the sage says:
He who takes on the humiliation of the people
is fit to rule them.
He who takes upon himself the country's disasters deserves
to be king of the universe.
The truth often sounds paradoxical.

Timothy, thank you for all that you do and the way that you do it.

It's rare for media reform issues to make the front page... but they did today.
This morning, the New York Times revealed that FCC Chairman Kevin Martin is rushing through a plan to rewrite media ownership rules, letting the biggest media companies control even more local outlets. And he's doing it without giving the public a chance to respond. The rules could take effect as early as December.

t's outrageous that Martin would try to pull a fast one on Americans. Fortunately, some members of Congress are fighting back. Sen. Byron Dorgan of North Dakota said, "If the chairman intends to do something by the end of the year, then there will be a firestorm of protest and I'm going to be carrying the wood." It's time to help Senator Dorgan light the fire.

The FCC tried to do this in 2003, and nearly 3 million people rose up to say no. Our protest forced Congress and the courts to reject the FCC's decision.

But despite overwhelming public opposition, Chairman Martin is trying to sneak through this massive giveaway before the Bush administration leaves office. We can put a stop to Martin's secret plan by reminding your elected officials that they must hold the FCC accountable.

http://action.freepress.net/campaign/fcc_oversight/i78idi32v67x3ti?

Hi Luna,

2 sources on Astro Data Bank. Checked by doing charts for her commencement address, the Clinton's marriage, Chelsea's birth, the Clinton's interview by Steve Croft, her father's death, and her election to the U.S. Senate. All done for location and all producing angular contact between exact to 1 degree+ in orb.

My interest in astrology and energy have both decreased greatly in the last several years or I would flesh out this post and would have copied the charts to my Photobucket site.

I also did the chart for her receiving the news that she had failed the DC Bar Exam with the same measure of success found in the other charts.

Tim, I enjoyed listening to the Yoko Ono interview on PBS radio on Wednesday. It was so heartening to hear how courageous a stand Lenin took against the Vietnam war, in the face of so much opposition, and with the Nixon administration trying to silence him. You know, I never thought of a conspiracy in connection with his death, but considering what he was involved in, its quite feasible.

Did anyone hear what happened in Pakistan at the rally for Benazir Bhutto? Just dreadful, over 100 people dead in the carnage, but Bhutto survived it. I don't know what her next step will be now.

Unreal.
http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/10/18/reid-tries-to-shut-down-dodds-hold/

This helps explain why Reid is turning on Dodd, the Constitution and the rest of us:
http://brendancalling.com/2007/10/18/harry-reid-hearts-att/

Cap'n Sally, does anyone have a chart on Reid. Stuff like this can fracture the party. Maybe this is the beginning of establishing a new party. It's unbelievable. He caves before Bushco and turns on an outstanding member of his own party to do so. Arrrrrrrgh!

Careful Crystal its Lennon not Lenin.:) I used to have a T-shirt with Groucho and John's image on it. I called it my "hysterical materialist and working class hero" T-shirt. I wish I could find one of those again.

Crystal,
Another troubled young man who was exposed to
Christian evangelism but who became active in right-wing Nazi causes was John W. Hinckley, Jr., the Texas-raised son of the wealthy head of
Vanderbilt Energy Company, John W. Hinckley, Sr. Eventually, the Hinckleys moved from Dallas, Texas to Evergreen, Colorado. Hinckley, Jr., like Rove, dropped out of college. After a failed attempt at becoming a songwriter in Hollywood, Hinckley returned to Evergreen, where he worked as a busboy in a nightclub. In late 1980, at the same time George H. W. Bush was planning his meeting in Paris with emissaries of the Islamic regime in Iran to convince them to hold on to U.S. embassy hostages taken captive in Tehran in 1979 until after the presidential election — in order to deny President Carter an “October Surprise” — Hinckley began stalking Carter. He also stalked presidential candidate Senator Edward Kennedy of Massachusetts. When Nashville Airport baggage metal detectors identified two handguns in Hinckley’s luggage, he was arrested, had his weapons confiscated, fined $62.50, and released. President Carter was making a campaign stop in Nashville the day Hinckley was arrested but the Secret Service decided not to make any more inquiries. Hinckley then purchased two more handguns.

The senior Hinckley had been involved with World Vision, a Christian evangelical association involved with a number of covert U.S. intelligence operations abroad. Like the Fellowship, World Vision acted as a Trojan horse for U.S. intelligence and business interests in Southeast Asia during the Vietnam War and Central America during the illegal U.S. support for the Nicaraguan contras. In fact, a number of World Vision officials, including two of its presidents, have been core members of the Fellowship. World Vision continues to involve itself in such hot spots as Iraq and Congo. According to Jeff Sharlet’s 2003 article in Harper’s, Coe admitted to having a close relationship with Nicaraguan President Anastasio Somoza Debayle, the dictator the Sandinistas overthrew in 1979.

While the senior Hinckley headed up World Vision, one of its youthful volunteers was
Mark David Chapman, also a native of Texas.
He would later assassinated ex-Beatle John Lennon on a New York City street.
Like John W. Hinckley, Jr., another right-wing would-be assassin and busboy was Arthur Herman Bremer from Milwaukee.
Lots more to read here........
http://www.rinf.com/columnists/news/expose-the-christian-mafia-parts-1-2
QOP

Harry Reid was born Dec. 2, 1939 in Searchlight, NV no birthtime.

Harry's Sagittarius Sun squares his Pisces Mars at approximately 8/9 degrees. Sun to Mars is often the signature of one's own worst enemy, a very pugnacious and scrappy personality. Transiting Saturn will be squaring and opposing respectively (thwarted ambition) Jupiter the ruler of his Sun is at 28 Pisces and Pluto soon squares that point as does Jupiter, it could make Harry feel he can get away with more than he actually can. I don't know how many supporters Dodd has but Reid and Rockefeller aren't part of them. Dodd's Sun, Uranus and Chiron are in exact opposition to Reid's Sun and Mars, this is going to be a real test of ego's. Pluto is opposing Senator Dodd's Saturn right now and he is likely to plant his feet and not budge on this, but he needs friends in the Senate. Any one thing right now to push fractious Dems and fractious GOPer's over to beginning a third party. It's getting mighty testy in the Senate and the House and Reid and Pelosi are having a hard time keeping the folks in check. It's a Mercury retrograde and Harry Reid was born with a Mercury retrograde so the final outcome might be a Reid win. Like I said, this is the election of money, media and elite, not a good election for the populist. Send some money to Dodd and keep the pressure on your Senators.

Thanks ever so much, Cap'n Sally, for the Reid info and interpretation. My mother has sun sq moon in her natal chart and it's always interested me that she usually does not achieve what she intends to achieve--somehow she works against herself. Sad and frustrating square.

Reid has sunk very, very low now. Knifing one of his own in the back. To say nothing of the Constitution and we the people.

Not Sun sq Moon Shy (that's another kind of energy) it is Sun/Mars square that results in being one's own worst enemy and Harry's square is about to be set off late Nov. to mid December and then again this next spring, it also aspects the 110th Congressional Jupiter at 8 Sag. I think there is a blow up coming. The Mars retrograde starting in November might slow it down a bit.

Timothy, I remember that Lennon/Lenin t-shirt and I was sure Northern Sun would still have it. They don't. But they do have others, including the J. S. Mill one which is one this page:
http://www.northernsun.com/n/s/scan/MM=26cdbab185c718aeb65ac06646badace:15:29:15.html?mv_more_ip=1&mv_nextpage=results&mv_arg=

Thanks for correcting me, Cap'n Sally. My glasses are scratched, so I read it wrong. My bad.

Bob, I am so happy to see your posts and saddened that you aren't doing that much astrology, you have such a brilliant astrological mind. Hope you are doing well.

QOP what a disturbing piece of investigative reporting. You know, the thing that gives me the creeps, when I look back I saw and heard this right wing take over coming and I just didn't believe it then. Thirty years ago these people were fanning out all over the country, my sister and her family are part of this. We all saw it, heard it in all the evangelists on tv, the rise of right wing Christians, the attack on people who weren't, the encroaching demands to declare your loyality to the god they chose for you. It's just beyond creepy and dangerous. Thanks for posting that link.

You're welcome Sally,
I heard it here first, over 3 years ago, printed it out and distributed it to friends locally. For me reading it it connected a lot of the missing dots.
I had spent some time in Virginia, near the Fellowship, doing murals, in the 70's! The Decorator I was doing them for had some commissons selling carpeting ( made in America, sturdy commercial carpeting ) to the Saudis. Was that Bandar Bush? Probably,he was the Saudi Ambassador at that time!
BTW............The soldier, who accidentally crept into the portrait I was painting of his daughter, 5 years ago; is HOME FROM IRAQ! safe and sound, out of the army now!
Yes! Support Sen Dodd! He's the only Dem. who stated he would restore the Constitution!
Pelosi and Reid's aides were both really lame & in-effectual when I called yesterday!
QOP

Timothy, thanks again for the comments. I think that you should take the time to actually read what has been written by myself and others here on Astroworld since Morgana's last blog entry/thread. There you will find me being as respectful an courteous as anyone could ask for, and several comments have been made to that effect.

I'm here because I want to highlight the fact that Sally nor her compatriots are interested in finding the truth, they are interested in arguing for a particular side. This is why so many of them, not all of course, but more than not, took issue with me on the MoveOn "General Betray Us" ad. If they were truly interested in seeking a dialogue and finding the truth, MoveOn could have laidout their points in opposition to Petraeus/Bush and those here at Astroworld would welcome some hard questioning of their taken for granted views.

Sad to say, neither can be said to be the case.

Many here charge Bush with being a facist, of violating the rights of others to be heard. So I thought to put them to the test-will they allow *me* to be heard? Are their positions strong enough to withostand questioning, or will they, like the very man they love to vilify (even as he risked it all bigtime to be seen in public with the Dalai Lama the other day), attempt to shut me down because I have the nerve to disagree, or at the very least look upon their "truth" with a skeptical eye? The exhortations of "ignore the troll" answers the question I think.

As I said yesterday Timothy, I have no problem entertaining a debate on the reasons for invading Iraq, or that huge mistakes were made. But I disagree vehemently with any attempt to compare the US to China, or the Soviet Union. Having spoken to people from that part of the world, at length, they would disagree with such a wrongheaded notion as well.

Moreover, I fully admitted that the US has legitimate oil interests in the Middle East, and cited Alan Greenspan's recent comments to that fact. We just disagree to the extent and intent of such an interest. Good people can disagree, which is somthing I think the good folks here at Astroworld should take to heart.

You are correct to point out that millions died in Vietnam, etc. But what you fail to mention is the timing-did the majority of those people die before, or after, Saigon 1968 Tet Offensive? What about Pol Pot, was the US responsible for the Khmer Rouge too? I've talked to people who lived through that era, Timothy. They never said anything about the US being responsible for that.

That being said, what did the US have to gain in the way of natural resources in Korea? And how many US servicemen died fightin for the right of South Koreans to be free? Today South Korea is one of the rising powers of the 21st century, vastly better in every way than its northern "brother".

So yes, while the US has made some major mistakes regarding foreign policy, they have also done some good things too. Western Europe, South Korea and Japan are shining examples of this.

It should be noted that the Democrats lost in their bid to override Bush' veto of the SCHIP program, by 13 votes. The Democratic-lead Congress has the lowest approval rating ever, lower than Bush's, and a far cry from President Clinton's even as he was being impeached by a GOP witch hunt. There is a marked reason why the Democrats keep losing, and the mindset envinced by many here is indicative of that. Because when you refuse to listen to other points of view, when you curse people out or otherwise try to shout them down, when you lean too far to the fringes of your side, you lose.

The Democrats will continue to lose. Maybe even the White House in 2008.

QOP, Thanks for the information.bjt

Bob, are you a student of rectification? I've heard of it but every book I've read it in says "you will know when you need to know", Is there a book on this subject?

A controversial new Middle East oil law could lead to the “disintegration” of Iraq as a nation state. Two of the region’s most respected commentators, including the co-author of the new Iraq Oil Law and a former oil minister, have each expressed their “gravest concern” at what they believe could happen within their country if the law is approved in its current form.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article17992.htm

Friday, October 19, 2007

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TERESA BREWER: 1931-2007 / Tiny singer, big voice, long career
Adam Bernstein, Washington Post
Teresa Brewer, a bold-voiced singer whose novelty hit "Music! Music! Music!" established her as a jukebox favorite in the 1950s and secured her four-decade career performing in nightclubs and on Las Vegas stages, died...

JOEY BISHOP: 1918-2007 / Comedian more than a pal of Sinatra
Dennis McLellan, Los Angeles Times
Joey Bishop, the impassive comedian who was ABC's answer to NBC's late-night talk show king Johnny Carson in the late 1960s and was the last surviving member of Frank Sinatra's legendary Rat Pack, has died. He was 89....

Acclaimed actress Deborah Kerr dead at 86
Mick LaSalle, Chronicle Movie Critic
Deborah Kerr, one of the great ladies of mid-20th century cinema, who epitomized grace and intelligence on screen, has died. Her death, in Suffolk, England, was announced on Thursday by her agent. She was 86. Like Greer...

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/artlist.cgi?key=MN&directory=/c/a/2007/10/19

Carol

http://www.aquamoonlight.co.uk/rectification.html

http://birthtime.info/

http://kamalkapoor.com/astrology/birth_rectification.asp

Carol from Google a list of books...

http://www.google.com/search?q=books+on+birth+time+rectification&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7GGIH

Some people just don't get it... rudeness is not the answer. Insulting your hostess (twice) is just beyond the pale. Who nominated you as the arbiter of truth?

Hi Sally, (((((((HUGS))))))

I think I am ok. Aspirin is still the only medication to be found in my apartment and still don't go to doctors except for when the VA schedules me for an appointment.

Retirement is alright but I have not yet decided what I want to do for the rest of my life.

Perhaps it is the Pluto square to Neptune transit going on in my chart. By right ascension it will be exact on December 8.

Hi Carol,

I have been and still am a student of astrology. I developed a timing technique more than 30 years ago which allows one to see planetary placements (some would say influences) minute by minute throughout the day.

This technique allowed me to say that the explosion of the space shuttle Columbia occurred over the west coast of the United States before that information became public knowledge and that accomplishment was a breakthrough in it being accepted by astrologers who had said that it couldn't work when I first presented it on the internet.

Further examples of my work were convincing enough that one of them has since included it in his own computerized astrology program, acknowledging my development of the technique of course.

While it is the greatest timing tool in the history of astrology (no wallflower me) it does not remove any of the constraints astrology has always had. It will not allow you to determine humanness (is this the chart of a person, place, or thing?), gender, race, nationality, sexual preference, nor whether a presumed event was or will be, physical, emotional, or both; is, or was, what is seen an act of the individual (in the case of a persons chart) or an act perpetrated on the individual; etcetera. The fact is there are a finite number of indicators to use in trying to determine an infinite number of possibilities and the indicators have no constraints.

But you can bet your sweet bippy that it will nail the time if an accurate birth time has been used. This exactness of timing allows one to adjust a used birth time (or location of birth or event - depending on which elements are inflexible)

I did not rectify a birth time for Hillary, I merely applied the technique to events in her life to see if the time supplied produced any results.

Of all the events I used the one that was most striking in its indication was when she received the news that she had failed to pass the DC Bar Examination. Perhaps there were so many indicators because of her youth and what passing the exam meant to her in her mind at that time. But amidst all of the disappointment to be seen in the chart was one outstanding positive indication - perhaps it was knowing she could stay in Arkansas with Bill.

OMG Tim, I can't believe I spelled Lennon's name that way. I'll have to double-check all my messages before I post. Can't say it was a Freudian slip, but it was some kinda slip! Hahahaha.

QOP, you are a veritable powerhouse of information, and I can't say how much I love reading your posts. I don't know how you manage to fit all that you do into one day! Sounds as though you're just bubbling over with energy. Your days must be chock-full of activities! Carry on in your own inimitable style.

Great little article with cool grahic on Reid and Rockefeller and "contributions" from the telecoms to them:
http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/10/19/you-get-what-you-pay-for/

Feisty "Leader" Reid now faces a threat by Dodd to filibuster. Go Dodd!
http://tpmelectioncentral.com/2007/10/dodd_will_filibuster_telecom_immunity_bill_if_reid_brings_it_to_vote.php

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-donors19oct19,1,5276546.story?coll=la-headlines-nation&ctrack=1&cset=true

An unlikely treasure-trove of donors for Clinton

Oooooh! Another pissedoff Californian!

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/10/19/democrat-soldiers-dying-for-bush’s-amusement/

Democrat: Soldiers dying for Bush's 'amusement'
Republicans quickly condemned Stark's comments Thursday.
WASHINGTON (CNN) — Rep. Pete Stark, D-California, is facing fire from Republicans for comments on the House floor Thursday suggesting Americans are dying in Iraq for President Bush's amusement.

Sharply critical of Bush’s veto of the children's health insurance legislation, Stark said Republicans are spending money "to blow up innocent people if we can get enough kids to grow old enough … to send to Iraq to get their heads blown off for the president's amusement."

Republican National Committee Chairman Mike Duncan quickly condemned the comments, saying in a statement they are "an insult to every American, Democrat or Republican."

"The leaders of the Democrat Party, including Nancy Pelosi and their presidential candidates, need to stand up and make it clear that this kind of attack is unacceptable from any elected official," Duncan added.

Stark later issued a statement saying, "I have nothing but respect for our brave men and women in uniform and wish them the very best,” said Stark. “But I respect neither the Commander-in-Chief who keeps them in harms way nor the chickenhawks in Congress who vote to deny children health care."

– CNN

http://www.house.gov/stark/contact/index.htm

In case anyone wants to send Pete Stark a message.

global warming. Al Gore said in 'An Inconvient Truth' that the Arctic and Antarctic are the canary in the mines for the planet.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7050132.stm

'Warm wind' hits Arctic climate

Sun-reflecting Arctic ice has traditionally cooled the whole planet
The Arctic is being hit by melting ice, hotter air and dying wildlife, according to a US government report on the impact of global warming there.
A new wind circulation pattern is blowing more warm air towards the North Pole than in the 20th Century, scientists found.

Shrubs are now growing in tundra areas while caribou herds are dwindling in Canada and parts of Alaska.

The report stresses that the fate of the Arctic affects the entire planet.

It looks like the beginning of a signal from global warming
James Overland, US National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration

The US National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (Noaa) report found that in 2007 winter and spring temperatures were "all above average throughout the whole Arctic and all at the same time" unlike in previous years.

"This is an unusual feature and it looks like the beginning of a signal from global warming," the Noaa's James Overland told reporters.

Scientists have expected polar regions to feel the first impacts of global warming, and the 2006 US State of the Arctic report provided a benchmark for tracking changes, the Associated Press news agency notes.

A shot across the bow in the coming water wars.

http://www.idahostatesman.com/531/story/186745.html

ID water director sending early warning about next summer

The state's top water official is sending an early message to thousands of southern Idaho groundwater users that their pumps may be shut down next summer if the state logs another winter of low mountain snowpack. David Tuthill, director of Idaho's Department of Water Resources, said letters will be mailed later this week to more than 2,700 farmers, ranchers, cities, schools and other businesses spread across a broad swath of southern Idaho that draws water from the Eastern Snake Plain Aquifer.

The letters provide advance warning that, barring a wet spring and an above-average snowpack in Idaho's mountain ranges, cutting off water supplies to some of those users may be the only option heading into the 2008 growing season.

"If the projected runoff is inadequate, then curtailments likely will be necessary," Tuthill wrote in an op-ed piece sent to newspapers across the state this week.

The warning comes just months after the state nearly enforced a shutdown of hundreds of groundwater pumps in south-central Idaho. The prospect having their water turned off irked growers, municipalities, dairymen and other businesses reliant on the resource.

More...

This is what I was talking about in an earlier post - the downward spiral of the standard of living for the middle and working class in America. I feel that we are headed for a recession. Wages continue to be low except for the top tier employees, I don't see any improvement in the job market, cost of living is on the rise, and of course we have the looming housing woes. Smells like a recession to me:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071019/ap_on_bi_ge/stretching_paychecks

Seems that Biden will support Dodd
http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/10/19/biden-to-join-dodd-in-filibuster/

and there are suggestions Feingold just might also.

Keep this URL, we may need it ere long...

http://efoodsdirect.com:80/products.html

A far cry from linguini and gorgonzola wv!
Do they contain high fructose corn syrup?

It is a balmy 60o here tonight in Maine, at 8:48 pm!
I have a Golden Nature series book about the flora & fauna of Acadia National Park ( 45 miles from me) published in the 60's when we startd vacationing up here. It gives the median average DAYTIME temperature in August as 64o.

from Morgana's Reap the WInd...........

"the smell of hot apple cider scenting the air redolent with decaying leaves and wood smoke. Halloween decorations of orange and black appear in our local stores, fall is here." This used to come with crackling crisp air! We haven't had a crisp day here yet.
Thank you for the postive endorsement Crystal! I've been doing the "Ride of the Valkierie" here compete with horned helmet.It doesn't always win brownie points.....But I wish I could trade places with Nancy for a week!...................
QOP

Restore the Constitutuion

http://restore-habeas.org/

". . . I wish I could trade places with Nancy for a week!"--QOP.

Now that's a great idea if I ever heard one! If only you could, QOP.

From Michael Mandeville at Earth Changes...

BULLETIN ITEM: Sunspots Zip, Pacific Ocean Temps In High Polarity

MWM observes and predicts:

Why are the air masses colliding with such vigor in the middle of North America? Isn't the Sun, spots are zipp 0. Look at the Pacifc. Here are the tendencies. La Nina is deeper and wider than ever, North Pacific Gyre has an exceptionally warmer than normal core. All this is highly organized in an amazingly classic almost text-book simple example of extreme polarization in the ocean heat flow. Look at the second graph on the bottom - the anomalous heat structure. The warm center in the North Pacific is going to supply at lot of wet air into the Artic zone in high Alasksa and the settling there will push a lot of Arctic air into the interior of North America - which will be the bottom cold air - from the north down the center of the continenet, as is happening how. Meanwhile the Carib is still in hurricane season and pushing a lot of very warm marine wet air to the north. These conditions will persist for a few weeks....hurricane season has devolved into tornadoes.... And for the higher elevations....this is going to be an early cold winter!!! Dry from the Great Plains and the continental divide to the West Coast, from about latitude of Oregan to all points south. Dakotas, Great Lakes and Canada - LOTS OF SNOW, early atcha, gumming up the works because IT WILL BE COLD .

http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/analysis_monitoring/enso_update/gsstanim.shtml

However it's going to be in the high 70's to low 80's in NYC next week, and
we are to have our first freeze on 10/23

The Radiation Poisoning Of America

by Amy Worthington

Global Research, October 9, 2007
Idaho Observer - 2007-10-07

Prior to 1996, the wireless age was not coming online fast enough, primarily because communities had the authority to block the siting of cell towers. But the Federal Communications Act of 1996 made it nearly impossible for communities to stop construction of cell towers "even if they pose threats to public health and the environment. Since the decision to enter the age of wireless convenience was politically determined for us, we have forgotten well-documented safety and environmental concerns and, with a devil-may-care zeal that is lethally short-sighted, we have incorporated into our lives every wireless toy that comes on the market. We behave as if we are addicted to radiation. Our addiction to cell phones has led to harder "drugs" like wireless Internet. And now we are bathing in the radiation that our wireless enthusiasm has unleashed. Those who are addicted, uninformed, corporately biased and politically-influenced may dismiss our scientifically-sound concerns about the apocalyptic hazards of wireless radiation. But we must not. Instead, we must sound the alarm.

http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=7025

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article3075691.ece

Clinton bucks the trend and rakes in cash from the US weapons industry

The US arms industry is backing Hillary Clinton for President and has all but abandoned its traditional allies in the Republican party. Mrs Clinton has also emerged as Wall Street's favourite. Investment bankers have opened their wallets in unprecedented numbers for the New York senator over the past three months and, in the process, dumped their earlier favourite, Barack Obama.

Mrs Clinton's wooing of the defence industry is all the more remarkable given the frosty relations between Bill Clinton and the military during his presidency. An analysis of campaign contributions shows senior defence industry employees are pouring money into her war chest in the belief that their generosity will be repaid many times over with future defence contracts.

Employees of the top five US arms manufacturers - Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Northrop-Grumman, General Dynamics and Raytheon - gave Democratic presidential candidates $103,900, with only $86,800 going to the Republicans. "The contributions clearly suggest the arms industry has reached the conclusion that Democratic prospects for 2008 are very good indeed," said Thomas Edsall, an academic at Columbia University in New York.

More....

Hillary's Bush Connection

http://www.realnews.org/stories/2007-10-16_hillary.html

Bush's mystery money man becomes Hillary's

snip

Political junkies will recall Quasha as the controversial figure who bailed out George W. Bush's failing oil company in 1986, folding Bush into his company, Harken Energy, thus setting him on the path to a lucrative and high-profile position as an owner of the Texas Rangers baseball team, and the presidency. The persistently unprofitable Harken--many of whose board members, connected to powerful foreign interests and the intelligence community, nevertheless profited enormously--faced intense scrutiny in the early 1990s and again during Bush's first term.

Now Quasha is back--on the other side of the aisle. Operating below the radar, he entered Hillary Clinton's circle even before she declared her candidacy by quietly arranging for the hire of Clinton confidant and longtime Democratic Party money man Terry McAuliffe at one of his companies. During the interregnum between McAuliffe's chairmanship of the Democratic Party and the time he officially joined Clinton's campaign, Quasha's firm set McAuliffe up with a salary and opened a Washington office for him.

Just a few years earlier, McAuliffe had publicly criticized Bush for his financial dealings with Harken, disparaging the company's Enron-like accounting. Yet in 2005 McAuliffe accepted this cushy perch with Quasha's newly acquired investment firm, Carret Asset Management, and even brought along former Clinton White House business liaison Peter O'Keefe, who had been his senior aide at the Democratic National Committee. McAuliffe remained with the company until he became national chair of Hillary's presidential bid, and O'Keefe never left. McAuliffe's connection to Quasha has, until now, never been noted.

snip

"That Hillary Clinton's campaign is involved with this particular cast of characters should give people pause," says John Moscow, a former Manhattan prosecutor. In the late 1980s and early '90s he led the investigation of the corrupt Bank of Credit and Commerce International (BCCI) global financial empire--a bank whose prominent shareholders included members of the Harken board. "Too many of the same names from earlier troubling circumstances suggests a lack of control over who she is dealing with," says Moscow, "or a policy of dealing with anyone who can pay."

More...

And now for something completely different...

http://exile.ru/articles/detail.php?ARTICLE_ID=13404&IBLOCK_ID=35

hearties,

Gilgamesh

Wow, the links on this site today are rocking good. Not your ordinary, what everyone else is looking at links, but "connect the dots" links. Good, great job AW. Too bad we cannot get paid for our efforts.

Four years ago, the Kansas State Board of Education was ready to throw out science in their schools and just teach creationism, what a difference time makes. Today the State of Kansas became the first state in the United States to say "NO" to new power plants because it would be "irresponsible" when greenhouse gasses have been proven to cause environmental destruction" Kansas became the first state to put environmental concerns over money. They are in for a big fight, but it's a start.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/18/AR2007101802452.html?hpid%3Dtopnews&sub=AR

Sally,
I second your WOW! about the links here.
From your keyboards to COngress's ears!
When I talk, I am spouting talking points, I have gained here from the excellent posts. FOR THE LAST 5 YEARS AT LEAST!
AND now...finally people are ready to listen to me rather than block, walk away or what ever. They ask for more details. Has anyone else experienced this lately?

Oh and send Nancy tables! A commentor at Huffington, suggested it, I have passed the idea on to DU. I think it is a great idea! Get a doll house table, put IMPEACHMENT on it and send it to Nancy!
Maybe if she gets thousands of tables like Barbara Boxer got orange roses......she'll get it, that it isn't just those dirty hippies in IIMPEACH T- shirts, hanging out on HER SIDEWALK!
I plan to make one out of cardboard, with tabs for assembly, so it can be mailed flat and set up on arrival!
QOP

Well, put Impeachemnt on your table!!!bjt

http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2007/10/dem-pushing-spy.html

Democratic Lawmaker Pushing Immunity Is Newly Flush With Telco Cash

Top Verizon executives, including CEO Ivan Seidenberg and President Dennis Strigl, wrote personal checks to Rockefeller totaling $23,500 in March, 2007. Prior to that apparently coordinated flurry of 29 donations, only one of those executives had ever donated to Rockefeller (at least while working for Verizon).

In fact, prior to 2007, contributions to Rockefeller from company executives at AT&T and Verizon were mostly non-existent.

More...

http://news.independent.co.uk/sci_tech/article3075681.ece

Elephants never forget the smell of a tribesman

Elephants mourn their dead and engage in long-distance communication using barely audible, low-frequency growls. Now they have been shown to be able to distinguish between different human tribes based on the smell and colour of their clothing.

It is believed to be the first time that any wild animal has been found to have the ability to categorise different sub-groups within the same species depending on the potential threat that they pose.

A study of elephants in the Amboseli National Park in Kenya has found that they react differently to members of the Maasai, cattle-herding pastoralists whose young men sometimes spear elephants to prove their virility, and the Kamba, who are village-dwelling farmers who pose little threat to elephants.

Scientists from the University of St Andrews and the Amboseli Trust for Elephants in Nairobi conducted field experiments which have shown that the elephants base their distrust of the Maasai on the colour of their traditional clothing – red – and their body scent.

More...

Too bad we can't do that with politicians.

Maybe Pat C, when the human race evolves to the level of elephants we will be able to "smell" the difference. Actually, I think there is hope for the future, some humans are beginning to "smell" that difference now, between members who are dangerous and who are safe. I think animals are going to be our best and safest bet moving into troubled waters.

Michael Lutin is not only a good astrologer but funny too. Here is his column on Mars Retrograde and the effect a retrograde has on people and in this instance on GWB as Mars retrogrades on his Sun, the US Sun and the GOP Sun, now we have hit Keystone Cop territory.

http://www.michaellutin.com/youreundersurveillance.htm

Interesting expose on Hillary and campaign contributions from Peter Paul. Forgive me if this is ancient news but I had no idea, although this is typical power politics.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq8aopATYyw

That's one tight Mars/Pluto conjunction she's got.

Saturday, October 20, 2007

Obama to do gospel tour with radical right singer who crusades against "the curse of homosexuality"
by John Aravosis (DC)

From the NYT:
As religious conservatives gather in Washington this weekend for the “Values Voters Summit,” Senator Barack Obama’s campaign announced its latest effort to attract people of faith to the campaign: a gospel concert tour.

All three of the dates of the “Embrace the Change” tour are in South Carolina, where Mr. Obama is locked in battle with Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton for black voters.

Gospel acts including Mary Mary, Donnie McClurkin and Hezekiah Walker, Byron Cage and the Mighty Clouds of Joy are scheduled to appear.

“This is another example of how Barack Obama is defying conventional wisdom about how politics is done and giving new meaning to meeting people at the grassroots level,” Joshua DuBois, the campaign’s religious affairs director, said in a release.
Yes, sucking up to anti-gay bigots and joining them on stage - no, giving them a stage - is certainly defying conventional wisdom as to how a Democrat becomes president. Oh, and McClurkin also believes that gays can, and need to, be "cured."

That Mars/Pluto conj can be a bit ruthless when placed against the square to her Venus. Interesting, that's also a lot of jealousy. A book written about Hillary by Bernstein (of Woodward and Bernstein) said she used to call the women Bill was seeing and threaten them. The women were scared to death of her. Her progressed Jupiter is now in a trine to that Pluto, hmmm. Some power there. Her progressed Sun is at 2 degrees Capricorn (three by election day) Jupiter will go over that this December and Pluto will be applying to a conjunction to the progressed Sun in Jan. 2009. That could either mean power or loss of power, completely; the Pluto conjunction to her progressed Sun (Pluto is the ruler of her Sun) won't be exact until March 2009.

Hillary still has to get beyond the stigma of being a woman in this country and being a Clinton. If she is to make it to the top, she will need as much Pluto power as she can get.

Thanks for Lutin!
I guess I won't put away the horned helmut...My progressed sun is 18 cancer; and my ASC is 20 Gemini.
Hopefully my motives are purer!!!
Funny I had to go back to the Safari browser. Firefox wouldn't let me scroll down the page once I clicked on article. Also it couldn't find the lutin link?????
QOP

I find it very interesting that when presented the evidence of the Democrats losing on the SCHIP battle, people want to change the subject. Very intellectually honest.

Sally, I have long preferred animals to most people. They are so honest and intuitive.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/20/opinion/20sat1.html?_r=2&ex=1350619200&en=c2603c5c090800dd&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

EDITORIAL
With Democrats Like These ...

Every now and then, we are tempted to double-check that the Democrats actually won control of Congress last year. It was particularly hard to tell this week. Democratic leaders were cowed, once again, by propaganda from the White House and failed, once again, to modernize the law on electronic spying in a way that permits robust intelligence gathering on terrorists without undermining the Constitution.

The task before Congress was to review and improve an update to the 1978 Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, known as FISA, that was pushed through the Capitol just before the summer break. That bill endorsed warrantless wiretapping and gutted other aspects of the 1978 law.

House Democrats drafted a measure that, while imperfect, was an improvement to the one passed this summer. But before the House could vote, Republicans tied up the measure in bureaucratic knots and Democratic leaders pulled it. Senate Democrats did even worse, accepting a Potemkin compromise that endorsed far too much of the bad summer law.

We were left wondering who is really in charge, when in a bipartisan press release announcing the agreement, the ranking Republican on the Senate Intelligence Committee, Kit Bond, described the bill as “a delicate arrangement of compromises” that could not be changed in any way. The committee’s chairman, Jay Rockefeller, didn’t object.

snip

Otherwise, it was a very frustrating week in Washington. It was bad enough having a one-party government when Republicans controlled the White House and both houses of Congress. But the Democrats took over, and still the one-party system continues.

More...

Astrological Musings: Astrology that expands the mind" - 1 new article

From Lynn Hayes...

Chiron turns direct, and more about Mercury retrograde

Chiron turns direct today for the first time since May 21. Over the past 18 months, Chiron has retrograded back and forth over the same nine degrees or so which has had a significant effect on those of us with planets in the middle degrees of the fixed signs: Aquarius, Leo, Scorpio and Taurus.

Between August and December Chiron will have only moved two degrees as it stationed in preparation to change direction, and its influence is more powerful than ever. Chiron, the Wounded Healer, urges us to face areas in our life and psyche where we still have unhealed wounds. By bringing these wounds into the open air of daylight we are able to find healing and greater wisdom.

Yesterday I consulted with Robert P. Blaschke who visited our local NCGR Chapter. I'll post more on that later and his amazing research into the progression cycles. I met with him to get his take on some cycles that I am experiencing now where energies are shifting, and he is world-renowned as the expert on the progressed chart. At any rate, he told me something that I had not noticed, that my progressed Mercury, which has been retrograde since 1990, will turn direct in 2010, which means its stationing now in preparation (the planets slow down to a crawl before they appear to change direction).

Robert said that when Mercury is retrograde by progression there is an accumulation of learning and understanding that takes place which is then ready to be released when the progressed Mercury turns direct. This was very interesting to me and it is also relevant to Mercury retrograde by transit as it is currently. So we can think about the Mercury retrograde period as a time when we are collecting data to be used later, but acting on it at the moment is more difficult.

This is likely the underlying reason for Mercury retrograde periods to be such good times for going back and re-doing projects that are not complete. I tell my clients, anything with a "re-" at the front of the word is well-suited for a retrograde Mercury. Review for a test, revision of your website, reinstalling software that isn't working. Reconnecting with old friends is another good one.

Writing is also favored under retrograde Mercury, just as it is for those with Mercury retrograde in their natal charts. Because our thoughts and ideas are more internalized now during this collection process, writing helps us to organize information in a way that is more complete.

The combination of Chiron's direct turn and Mercury passing retrograde points to a tendency now to look back and heal that which is broken. As the Sun begins its descent into the darkness of Scorpio on the 23rd, this is a good time for greater introspection and release of past hurts and conflicts.

• Email to a friend • Related • •

Back when we had a Constitution, there was a word for the actions of revealing a covert CIA agent's name and other identifying information, putting at risk a very sensitive operation designed to keep WMDs out of the hands of "bad guys", and so on. There would be trials and convictions for such crimes. Nowadays, people just Scoot along with only a slapped wrist.
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/CBS_confirms_2006_Raw_Story_scoop_1020.html

When are they going to make it official that only "we the people" are subject to laws and our rulers not so much?

Now the Saudis tool up for war The White House line that Iraq’s extremists are all backed by Iran is a myth, writes robert fox

T his weekend, buyers from across the Gulf states and the Middle East will descend on a huge arms fair in Dubai. Sheikhs, emirs, princes and kings will be buying anything from specialised sniper ammunition by the ton, to the highest-tech surveillance gear and even the odd British Aerospace gunboat or Eurofighter.

The Arab world will use the International Defence Exhibition (IDEX), to tool up for a coming confrontation with Iran, and to arm Sunni insurgents to fight Iran's allies in Iraq, the Shia militias.

Even the Bush administration will now admit, under its collective breath of course, that Iraq is in the throes of a full-blown civil war between armed groups of its Sunni and Shia Arab communities, triggered a year ago by the destruction of the al-Laskar mosque in Samara, a revered Shia shrine.

http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?menuID=1&subID=1147&print=print

Watch Bill Moyers on Blackwater...

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/10192007/watch.html

I don't know where to jump in! So much going on and I don't want to interrupt any threads! Just saying hello....

Apparently, the House Dem leadersheep are as upset about Pete Stark's recent comments as the Rethugs are pretending to be. Arrrrrgh.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/10/20/123418/53

The best line in that whole thing, shy, is this one.

"We go to Congress with the leaders we have. Not the leaders we wished we had. "

How frigging ironic is that?

Claudia, we seem to be in an endless quagmire where there is no end for the need for insights. Jump in anywhere!

Has anyone heard of this book? It is too fantastic to be believed - all gloom and doom. Don't read if you're easily depressed.

http://www.nostradamusonline.com/

From WV's Lynn Hayes post below. I was born with Mercury Rx, and this paragraph describes me to a T. I've been thinking of writing a book for years; but now I'm thinking of writing books. Conditions are not yet right for me however, but I'm chomping at the bit.

"Writing is also favored under retrograde Mercury, just as it is for those with Mercury retrograde in their natal charts. Because our thoughts and ideas are more internalized now during this collection process, writing helps us to organize information in a way that is more complete."

Crystal

a two hour program on Nostradamus to be shown
on the History Channel on Sunday Oct. 28

http://www.history.com/shows.do?action=detail&episodeId=247754

Thanks for that bit of information WV.

Do not miss Mr. Merriman's "Longer-Term Thoughts" near the end of the article:
http://www.stariq.com/MarketWeek.HTM

And what are your thoughts on this? I sure hope US labor takes advantage of what he sees as a transit that benefits labor.

Here you go.............

(10-20) 17:30 PDT SAN FRANCISCO -- Labor leaders from around the world gathered in San Francisco today to call on workers to stand up and take organized action against war in Iraq, saying that politicians can't be counted on to halt the bloodshed.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/10/20/MN0GSTIOK.DTL&tsp=1

the coments are horrible......bright RED! In S F?

Our young people are truly lost!
QOP

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071020/ap_on_re_as/sinking_cities_4

Rising seas threaten 21 mega-cities

BANGKOK, Thailand - Cities around the world are facing the danger of rising seas and other disasters related to climate change.

Of the 33 cities predicted to have at least 8 million people by 2015, at least 21 are highly vulnerable, says the Worldwatch Institute.

They include Dhaka, Bangladesh; Buenos Aires, Argentina; Rio de Janeiro, Brazil; Shanghai and Tianjin in China; Alexandria and Cairo in Egypt; Mumbai and Kolkata in India; Jakarta, Indonesia; Tokyo and Osaka-Kobe in Japan; Lagos, Nigeria; Karachi, Pakistan; Bangkok, Thailand, and New York and Los Angeles in the United States, according to studies by the United Nations and others.

More than one-tenth of the world's population, or 643 million people, live in low-lying areas at risk from climate change, say U.S. and European experts. Most imperiled, in descending order, are China, India, Bangladesh, Vietnam, Indonesia, Japan, Egypt, the U.S., Thailand and the Philippines.

This is the whole article

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/20708.html

Southeast drought fuels battle over water rights

WASHINGTON — Alabama, Florida and Georgia lawmakers are upping the ante in a feud over water rights, a fight fueled by Atlanta's explosive growth and worries that drought-stricken regions of the Southeast are months away from running out of water.

Each state is pressing the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers on decades-old water control plans that give guidance on how best to release millions of gallons of water from river basins that the states share. Such plans are especially important when states face floods or droughts.

All three states accuse the Corps playing favorites in choosing when to release millions of gallons of water for drinking, hydropower, recreational and agricultural uses.

The tri-state battle pits Florida's concerns about preserving endangered species of mussels and sturgeon and the effects of booming population growth in Atlanta against those of Georgia, which worries that the water needed to keep the species alive draws from dwindling sources such as Lake Lanier outside of Atlanta. Alabama, meanwhile, contends Georgia needs to loosen its hold on water from Lake Allatoona in the Atlanta metro area so that the state can replenish much-needed water supplies and continue running a nuclear power plant in the southern part of the state.

More...

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23417404-details/Iraq+whistleblower+Dr+Kelly+WAS+murdered+to+silence+him%2C+says+MP/article.do
Weapons expert Dr David Kelly was assassinated, an MP claims today. Campaigning politician Norman Baker believes Dr Kelly, who exposed the Government's "sexed-up" Iraq dossier, was killed to stop him making further revelations about the lies that took Britain to war. He says the murderers may have been anti-Saddam Iraqis, and suggests the crime was covered up by elements within the British establishment to prevent a diplomatic crisis.

http://rawstory.com/news/2007/CBS_confirms_2006_Raw_Story_scoop_1020.html

CBS confirms 2006 Raw Story scoop: Plame's job was to keep nukes from Iran
Muriel Kane and Dave Edwards
Published: Saturday October 20, 2007

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CBS News has confirmed, in advance of a 60 Minutes interview with outed CIA agent Valerie Plame to be run this Sunday, that Plame "was involved in operations to prevent Iran from building nuclear weapons."

"Our mission was to make sure that the bad guys, basically, did not get nuclear weapons," Plame told 60 Minutes. Plame also indicated that her outing in 2003 had caused grave damage to CIA operations, saying, "All the intelligence services in the world were running my name through their databases" to see where she had gone and who she had met with.
QOP

A NYT article on the coming water wars:
"The Future Is Drying Up"

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/21/magazine/21water-t.html?hp

Thank you all for making this one of the best forums on the web!

Crystal, here's a site of someone who makes predictions based on Nostradamus' stuff with a lot of interesting commentary based on years of study and educated guessing. I've seen this guy on documentaries too, on the History Channel.

http://www.hogueprophecy.com/

From the Hogue Prophecy site this is his bulletin on the possible coming war with Iran.

http://www.hogueprophecy.com/prophecy/2007predictions.htm

http://www.esquire.com/print-this/iranbriefing1107

Wow even these people are coming out.

I think I understand the desire to get a woman in the White House, although most everyone I know could care less about the gender or skin color of the candidate and are more concerned about the message they are sending and the goals they wish to achieve. I just don't think it should be this one, no matter how important that one singular goal is. Just because she's a woman (sometimes I wonder...) doesn't make her good. It is not wise to betray principles for goals. The end result will not be desirable. As someone mentioned before, Pluto is about to rapidly move into Capricorn before this year's end. Nuff said.

Gilgamesh

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/carolduhart

Show at 3am Eastern. Podcast should be available on I-tunes.

It's 6:43 eastern ( still daylight time) I got the brief intro not a whole show!
I tried to login, but couldn't find where to register.....
How will that work? WIll there be specific times?
It brought to my awarenessl that I am weaving between Uranus/ Pisces 10th H: painting: and Neptune, Aquarius 9th H computer technology!
QOP

Gilgamesh,
I could not sit still and read that entire esquire article straight through................ ( I did finish it, with breaks to let the cats out, let them in, thaw the juice.........
Why can't we just arrest the neocons and administration for treason NOW TODAY!
It's appalling! ANd the magazine nazi from Bangor ( wholesaler) doesn't EVEN bring magazines to the markets Downeast, such as Esquire, Harpers, Vanity Fair, etc............
First thing I will do if my income increases, due to my prodigeous efforts, is buy subscriptions to all of them for our library!
QOP

QQP, That short segment is all there was, just a test to see if it worked. You can listen anytime by just going to my http://www.aquariusmoon.info site, or my http://carolduhart.blogspot.com site. It's right on the front page. Broadcasts will be fairly erratic until Winter Break. During Break, I will mostly be doing this on weekends-15 minutes at the most.

OK Carol. I will bookmark the blogspot too and check in.

Meanwhile......... Frank Rich........

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/21/opinion/21rich.html?th&emc=th
"Which brings us back to Mr. Riechers. As it happens, he was only about three degrees of separation from Blackwater. His Pentagon job, managing a $30 billion Air Force procurement budget, had been previously held by an officer named Darleen Druyun, who in 2004 was sentenced to nine months in prison for securing jobs for herself, her daughter and her son-in-law at Boeing while favoring the company with billions of dollars of contracts. Ms. Druyun’s Pentagon post remained vacant until Mr. Riechers was appointed. He was brought in to clean up the corruption."

I ran into the foremost member of Friends of the Library in the store and suggested they subscribe to those publications!

QOP

Why do the Leadersheep in the House have their panties in a bunch over the recent statements by Peter Stark, when some in Bushcoland now realize that "confessions" resulting from torture may not be admissible in trials. Ya think? This quotes from an article in the LA Times (sub required):
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2100506

Interesting comments downthread, too.

Hey Pluto in Libra - Gilgamesh; you are soooo right about your generation. They don't care what color, gender, sexual orintation, culture etc. is president.I think a lot of the polarizing issues so dramatically introduced into politics since the 1980's is absolutely lost on them. The Pluto in Libra Generation (1971 to 1984) sees and understands the "balance" of thought that shared leadership with all these different groups would bring. In my experience with this generation, they are really frustrated with the narrow application of leadership, some are angry, some turned off and some are working to change that. The generation before them (Pluto in Virgo) just coming into power are frustrated with the medical issues and environmental issues and they will clean up these things and will not care how much they cost. They will also open the door to shared power but the Pluto in Libra will widen that door considerably. And Gilgamesh is correct, this generation is more interested in "what" the message is as opposed to "who" is carrying it or the symbology of that person. Pluto in Leo has been concerned with image, Virgo and Libra are concerned with content and Pluto in Scorpio generation will absolutely pitch out marketing and "spin" having trouble believing anything anyone says. By the time we get to Pluto in Scorpio, political candidates and business leaders better put their money where their mouth is. This is simplified but that's about the way it will go on the world stage.

Sally, I've seen that very thing in my children who are Pluto in Libra. From day one, they were unconcerned with race or national origin. I use to think it was because they were raised by me, but it became clear in tme that it was a personality ingredient they arrived on the planet with, and I just complimented who they already were.

..........

https://therealnews.com/web/index.php?thisepisode=45

Here is a seven part interview with Gore Vidal. He says things that the journalists should have been saying. As Martin Amis says, "Even his blind spots are illuminating.". It's a must see.

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/10/20/cheneys-law-the-veeps-radical-theories-of-executive-power/

Last week PBS Frontline aired a special called “Cheney’s Law” that examined Dick Cheney’s view of presidential power and his 30 year struggle to expand, strengthen and centralize that power. Through interviews with high-level administration officials such as John Yoo and Jack Goldsmith, the program offers a fresh perspective on how fundamentally different Dick Cheney’s view of constitutional government is from, well, just about every student of American history. Here is a brief clip about the administration’s contempt for Congress, illustrated by their public acceptance of the “McCain torture bill’, and their private signing statement essentially saying that the bill means absolutely nothing

Sally, I'm already seeing just how intense the Pluto in Scorpio generation can be.

QOP, tell me about it. I'm totally baffled as to the overall media silence. The last anti-war protest I went to, Sept 15, there was a Sun/Mars square and you could just feel the rage in the crowd. It was also pleasing to see all manner of people from varying ideologies come together against the war, somewhat different from previous marches esp. those sponsored by ANSWER - this particular one was led by Iraqi veterans. Almost 200 people were arrested for civil disobedience as we all screamed for over 5 hours straight "this is what democracy looks like" in the face of a horde of Capitol police in riot gear. Naturally, little old media coverage; easily 80,000 people were there. These fascists know exactly what they're doing and it will be difficult to tip the balance to start a snowball effect in the other direction but as evidenced by that Esquire article, the word is getting around, and the Boomers before showed the world it can be done non-violently.

Now that more and more people are "waking up" so to speak despite working longer hours in crappier jobs while the ultra-rich get richer and our dwindling middle-class indicates a return to a "Gilded Age 2", the next step is getting more organized and to put aside petty differences and focus on the most pressing issue at hand: stopping the war. We all know it's bad, that it's ruining our country and is probably the worst holocaust ever perpetrated. Ever. History will indeed judge these criminals in a very harsh light, it will just take a while and a lot of effort. Get out there and do something! Help us! Democracy is not easy, and we're seeing what happens when we slack off on it.

http://www.pephost.org/site/PageServer?pagename=S15_homepage

http://www.pephost.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=8663

And in keeping with the original theme here:

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article3075691.ece

"Mrs Clinton's wooing of the defence industry is all the more remarkable given the frosty relations between Bill Clinton and the military during his presidency. An analysis of campaign contributions shows senior defence industry employees are pouring money into her war chest in the belief that their generosity will be repaid many times over with future defence contracts."

Oh, Michael, what are you getting at? Are you just butthurt whining because your astrologer boy got dissed on Astrodatabank? Or are you him and just using some sock puppet? Also, with regards to the Iraq war not being about oil, WHO ARE YOU KIDDING??? Even Greenspan admits it. Sure, there are many motivations and simply securing the oil is one of them, but overall, it's about resources like all wars. There's a lot of uranium in Kazakhstan that needs to get to a seaport, and of course we don't want it to get into the hands of any of their neighbors.. There are a lot of geopolitical strategic considerations, which include AIPAC and militant zionists (yah I said it) but there's a much better way of going about it than this very evil war of preemptive aggression and occupation that is ruining our good name abroad.

So can you answer a simple question: What do you think the war on Iraq is about?

Gilgamesh

Gilgamesh, starve the troll.

There seems to be a new wave of "centrists" and their sock puppets out there on political blogs, reading from the script and distracting the flow of discourse. From what I've noticed, progressives are getting a spine and the gloves are off.

BTW did anyone notice the message left on the last essay while we all came over to this blog to
comment? What more can I say?

"As for my own political affiliation, I voted for Gore in 2000. I voted for Bush in 2004." Posted by Michael at October 17, 2007 11:26 AM

Clearly lacking in judgment if he voted for Gore in 2000 and Bush in 2004. By then it should have been very clear that Bush was incompetent and indifferent in government and in war making. True, some people got taken in by the Bin Laden tape, but QuaQua was the Bushie's real measure.

And Gilgamesh, Michael should realize that even in noble wars, there are people who seek to profit, either by supplying various sides or in the aftermath when people have so many needs to be fulfilled. In olden sword and sandal days, there were wars fought for booty and land. The King wanted more cropland, the soldiers would loot for pay. Today, of course, the world is more sensitive to such things so the cause can never be so blunt and mercenary as all of that. Even if the intent is the same for the higher ups.

Maybe those who really want to feed the troll should simply invite him to their address to eat.

The Maher flap...

http://www.truthnews.us/?p=398

Hi, Shylurker -- I checked out Mr. Merriman's article. I wanted to share my take on it and add things to the mix that I've been thinking about.

I agree whole-heartedly with Mr. Merriman. He points out similarly to what I was discussing on AW not too long ago. I made reference to a remark I overheard a pundit make about Americans having to find themselves in a 1930's economic position to "wake up." Sky patterns tell me we may not be too far off. According to Mark Twain, history doesn't repeat itself, but it rhymes. I think we're about to witness poetry in motion.

Other things I believe we'll see but not mentioned by Merriman re Saturn in Virgo (the workers): we'll witness events and more lawsuits that call attention to how mentally and physically ill workers are under America's corportist regimes, particularly under the practices of Regean, Thatcher in England, and now George W. Bush. (See Naomi Klein's "The Shock Doctrine," introduction and Chapter 1).

The people have lost a great deal of ground since the progressives pushed for protective labor laws starting in the early 1900s. Illnesses from poison exposure in the work place, contaminated imports, stress induced illness, lack of health insurance, sick buildings, "sick" management, and more. Factor in any and all 6th house themes for a wider interpretation of how Saturn in Virgo will operate over the next 2 1/2 years. The 6th house is also associated with the military and their health care (remember the Walter Reed scandal?) and lives are in a shamble. We started down that dastardly slope when Saturn was in Cancer. Mars is transiting the sign now and by retrograde will spend a much longer time in that sign (and Gemini). Look for more domestic violence coming from our returning military personnel due to PTSD, depression, drug and alcohol abuse, etc.

The Saturn in Virgo exposure of "syndromes" and issues of workers in peril will hit critical mass in what I think will turn out to be violent strikes and protests on a number of issues when Saturn opposes Uranus in Pisces. There will be several passes due to Saturn's retrograde cycle.

Perhaps its time to reread Upton Sinclair's The Jungle?

"The line of the buildings stood clear-cut and black against the sky; here and there out of the mass rose the great chimneys, with the river of smoke streaming away to the end of the world. It was a study in colours now, this smoke; in the sunset light it was black and brown and grey and purple. All the sordid questions of the place were gone - in the twilight it was a vision of power. To the two who stood watching while the darkness swallowed it up, it seemed a dream of wonder, with its tale of human energy, of things being done, of employment for thousands upon thousands of men, of opportunity and freedom, of life and love and joy. When they came away, arm in arm, Jurgis was saying, 'Tomorrow I shall go there and get a job!'" (from The Jungle).

"great chimneys," "River of smoke," "black, brown, grey and purple." "A vision of power." Our skylines look like this today. The USDA today turns a blind eye to the hideous and filthy practices taking place in slaughter houses and meat packing plants. That's why we have tons and tons of E-coli infected meat recalled. "The Jungle" was published in 1906. There is no excuse for conditions such as this to exist in 21 Century America. Yet, yet, yet ... corporatism. A great flow of wealth upward to a very few hands. The rest of the nation is free-falling and those who call attention to it are labeled "partisan." "Liberal." "Irrational." "Revolutionary." "Malcontent."

The cardinal T-square that points to hard, hard economic times is shaping up in 2010. Saturn in Libra is applying to another Saturn Return in the USA's Decl. of Ind. chart. Saturn will square the USA's Venus, Jupiter, and Sun (very hard on U.S. financials) and also squares T- Pluto in Capricorn. Both Saturn and Pluto will hit 6 degrees of their respective signs by transit, which is the degree of the lunar nodes in the Decl. chart. Nodal hits are always, always, always, very difficult "fated" times in the charts of nations and in the charts of world leaders.

T-Uranus in Pisces will have been in square to the U.S. Mars (21 Gemini) for quite awhile. Mars-Uranus hard aspects are, without doubt, a key signature aspect pointing to massive upheaval in politics, war, strikes, revolutions, and economic reversals.

In 2015, notably at the Total Lunar Eclipse in April 4, 2015, 8:05 am, Washington, DC. This eclipse chart in bi-wheel with the USA's Decl. of Ind. chart is the one I've nicknamed "the end of capitalism as we know it.

Gover's article here talks about Wal-Mart, one of the behemoths that help define American Corporatism.

http://stariq.com/Main/Articles/P0006293.htm

". . .in April 2015, for that is when the USA’s natal planetary positions are to be hit the hardest and we can expect the most difficult times. A Uranus-Pluto square will form a Grand Cross pattern with the Sun-Saturn square in the US nativity. Given the past history of Uranus-Pluto squares which hit these points, you can bet the farm that the 2000-teens will be volatile...."

Gover, for my money (no pun intended) has nailed it through all his articles on StarIq. He has several articles where he lays out the historical planet patterns that led to economic depressions in the United States and has carefully projected them forward. I've read and verified his assertions. I trust him and Mr. Merriman too.

Okay, it's Sunday Free Form Day!

Here's one for Garry (where IS Garry?). Not HAARP, but about manipulating hurricanes anyway:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/10/21/wstorm121.xml

Whew, Claudia! You quite took my breath away with that analysis. Many, many thanks. I'm copying it (along with that passage from Mr. Merriman) and keeping it, for sure.

Here's an upbeat story about what 2 Pluto in Scorpio & 1 Pluto in Libra young people have done to make a difference!
This quite consistant with the potential I saw when I was teaching art at the Y several years ago.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-sendler_bdoct21,0,5676701.story

FT. SCOTT, Kan. - The young Kansas women have become known as the "rescuers of the rescuer."

What the four high school students did started out simply enough: collaborate on a National History Day project to write a short play about an event from the past. What they accomplished when it was all said and done has been stunning: discover, research and introduce to the world an unsung Polish heroine of the Holocaust, a woman who daringly saved some 2,500 Jewish children from the Warsaw ghetto yet remained virtually unknown to historians and the public for more than 60 years.
QOP

Yup, I can understand voting for Bush in 2000 then going to Kerry or 3rd party in 2004 but the reverse is... ??????

Claudia, my intuition reflects much of those depressing but probably necessary prognostications. Look how much worth the dollar has lost in the last few years. I feel like even though I'm making more money, in a way I'm just spinning my wheels against a machine designed to fail.

Gilgamesh

Gilgamesh, that's exactly what my clients are reporting to me duringreadings. It's what my friends are reporting to me almost daily. Depressing as it is on its face, I also believe that there will be a lot of creative re-imagining towards new ways of thriving, living, being, and doing that will emerge during these fitful times. That's a high note within the cycle and is as valid as our unvarnished analyses of upcoming harsh planet patterns. I don't say that just to put icing on a crap cake. The creative emerges from the destructive, and vice versa. This is how I'm seeing it today.

PatC, Gore Vidal is a brilliant mind and like a ton of other people with brilliant, they like us just cannot figure this out.

I had not seen those pics of the Sept. 15 march on Washington, and I sure didn't see them on any media outlet, they are fantastic. There was an article and I don't think I posted it here, where a CEO of a large corp said "we are making too much, the head of corporations should not be getting this much money." Little by little the "haves" will be forced to pull back from this obscene wealth.

The thing I like about the Pluto in Libra generation and what I think we will learn from them is their insistence on a balanced life and believe they "deserve" a balanced life. What a thought, certainly not one to occur to previous generations, other generations have only talked about "balance" Libra lives it. They will take that "balance" into everything; work, play, health.

Hi, Sally -- I think back to the Pluto in Cancer generation and, because of hindsight, can draw broad conclusions about their experiences with "Kali" in their sign. This generation saw the Great Depression and WWII as hallmarks of their generation. Their domestic arrangements where taken to hell and back via these upheavals, and Pluto (and the outer planets) are certainly about all matters out of our control.

I think we of the Pluto in Leo generation are still too close to it in many ways to fully understand our place in the procession of generations. We have some good insights. But not yet our full narrative.

Sally, do you think the Pluto in Libra people could be watching all things "Libra" going through Kali's grinding machine and adapting to what might be an erasure or erosion of what the Libra experience could mean to that generation? Will the Pluto in Libra generation leave as it's legacy a new definition of balance and methods by which it can be achieved? What does that generation call "Just" and truly "Fair"? Working 60 to 80 hours a week just to a) make someone else richer; b) just get by?

Pluto is obsessive when feeling threatened. And Pluto erodes and erases. It destroys in order to rebuild over long periods of time. When Saturn rolls along and makes a hard aspect to Pluto, the obsessive qualities of the planet come out because Pluto is survival, right down to the cellular level. Saturn will square T-Pluto in 2010 when it goes into Libra and conjoin the natal Plutos of the Pluto in Libra generation. Wow. I wonder what this group will bring to us? What will they say and do about a world gone madly OUT of balance?

Pluto in Libra - marriage, law, code of law, the Constitution, human rights law, torture laws, relationships and the conduct of them, contracts, etc., etc. -- This is a really good topic for discussion. Really good. Thanks to all who brought this up.

Hi Shy, all---
I'm lurking here somewhat but I've been biting my e-tongue to avoid troll-baiting. I'm not enjoying the negativity of those who would "fair and balance" us.

"Reality has a well-known liberal bias."-Stephen Colbert

PS: I've also been helping my Father some. He turned 75 on June 4 and just had his first-ever hospital stay after quintuple heart bypass surgery in late September(an always active Gemini, his nemesis was the "fry everything in bacon grease"/Southern Diet, I suppose).

He seems to be doing fine,and whether you know it or not, you wonderful people here helped me through some rough times this past month.

Love
G

PPS: I'm waiting for everything to settle down, after a near-100% life reboot this past 15 months--new job, new apartment, new place to play music, new office/new location/new duties/paradigm at work, and even a complete hard-drive crash in August. I'm REALLY tired of the merry-go-round, because I don't do change too well.

Woot! Woot! Garry's back. Saw Venus early this am, Garry, shining so large and bright in the eastern sky, it looked almost like a small moon. Been a good day, particularly now that we've heard from you.

White House Civil War

Promised real power as Bill Clinton's vice president, Al Gore found he had a rival for that role: the First Lady. And when Hillary decided to run for the Senate, a tense competition got ugly. In an excerpt from her new book about the Clinton White House years, the author reveals how conflicting agendas—the triangle of a scandal-ridden lame-duck president, the wife he'd betrayed, and his designated successor—sapped Gore's 2000 campaign as the bond between two couples dissolved into distrust, anger, and resentment.

by Sally Bedell Smith November 2007 Excerpted from For Love of Politics—Bill and Hillary Clinton: The White House Years, by Sally Bedell Smith, to be published this month by Random House, Inc.; © 2007 by the author.

During the 1992 campaign, Bill and Hillary Clinton took several successful bus trips with vice-presidential candidate Al Gore and his wife, Tipper, where they bonded to such an extent that Tipper called Hillary her "long-lost sister." "If there is a subject under the sun that we haven't discussed, I don't know what it might be," said Al. So it seemed fitting that the four of them again boarded a bus three days before Bill Clinton's inauguration, this time for a 120-mile ride from Charlottesville, Virginia, to Washington, re-enacting the trip that Thomas Jefferson had made in 1801.

After conducting an interview with Bill and Hillary, NBC Nightly News anchor Tom Brokaw lingered while the two couples sat around a table in the kitchenette in the front of the bus. "It struck me like a college-dorm bull session rather than an incoming administration," Brokaw recalled. "Hillary was not leading, but she was like a junior partner. It was Gore to Bill Clinton, and Hillary was gracefully part of the conversation."

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2007/11/clinton200711?printable=true¤tPage=all

I wish I had more time to expound upon all of these excellent comments, but for now I'd probably be most effective by pointing out that these protests have been going on for quite some time and Sept 15th wasn't the largest one. I went to one in Sept of 2005 that blew my mind and expectations, it had to be at least 150,000 people; when I get some free time this week I'll upload my pics of it. I am no photog but I did try to capture some of the scale of the march.

It helps that I live in the DC area, but groups like ANSWER (Act Now to Stop War and End Racism) are very good about organizing bus trips and coordinating carpools and such, and they try to work with other protest orgs as well.

What's kind of hilarious about these marches is the lack of counter-protesters (usually there are 50-100), although at the Sept. 15 one there were actually a few hundred. They all pile up in front of the FBI building. Just a coincidence, I'm sure... ;> They still pale in comparison to every one of these.

Cindy Sheehan is pretty much at every one of them, and former Attorney General Ramsey Clark (I think he founded ANSWER?) is always there. The striking thing about this last one were the Iraqi Veterans leading the march, and their message must not be forgotten - that there are a lot more soldiers and ex-soldiers who feel just like them (as well as the ones you might have heard of already such as dissenter Lt. Watada) but are too afraid and/or unmotivated to do so. They were definitely boosted by the turnout and felt like they had the support to put themselves out there like that, and said if this kept up, they guaranteed many more would come out of the woodwork.

I actually sat on DC Metro near the guy with the painted peace sign on his face. Totally cool guys, just like anyone you'd meet in USA, but absolutely disillusioned by the hell they went through over there and the betrayal from their own military.

The week following Sept 15, the Code Pink ladies were busy doing acts of civil disobedience downtown, all peaceful of course. They rule; they are infinitely braver than these chickenhawks.

Oh, and on a lighter note there's no shortage of creative costumes and caricatures! It's so much fun! This guy at Sept. 15 protest was so funny doing a Cheney impersonation:

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/3999/1000403gh7.jpg
http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/4053/1000404az5.jpg

"GRRR I'M WIRETAPPING YOUR INTERNET GRRR NEED MORE OF YOUR KIDS FOR MY OIL WAR GRRRR" lol!!

And if you think you're too young/old/crazy/goofy/square/hippie/lefty/righty or whatever, don't because trust me there's people from all walks of life at these things! I felt proud to be an American again!

Gilgamesh

Hi Garry, welcome back! Hope your Dad's recovering well!
Here's an interesting possibility........

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/naomi-wolf/finally-action-ron-pau_b_69042.html

Finally, Action! Ron Paul Introduces Bill to Defend Constitution!
Posted October 18, 2007 | 05:45 PM (EST)
there's a linkto the pdf, entire bill.
QOP

Now the Buddhist monks in Tibet are in conflict with the Chinese troops there. The monks were trying to celebrate HHDL receiving the Congressional Medal. I don't know why they tried to temper the vicious and murderous repression of Tibet's Buddhists by using the term 'harsh' in the article,' but they did.
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/10/21/asia/AS-GEN-China-US-Dalai-Lama.php

Sorry about your dad Garry and happy to see you back, hope your dad is doing better after his surgery. I don't do change well either and hate it when it rolls around, but usually find the change is better.

Claudia, my experience with Pluto in Libra and one the "workforce" complains about is they don't expect (and won't) to work 60/80 hours a week. It's a complaint in the corporations I deal with that this generation will give you loyality 8 hours a day and after that they figure their time should be their own. Corporations do complain about that, I think it's fabulous and I think they will force some better work/life balance in years to come. The Saturn/Pluto/Uranus t-square might be the tipping or breaking point for them if they feel forced to sell their "soul" to the company store. I work for a foundation supporting women into corporate leadership positions and work toward a better and less toxic corporate environment. The challenge is dealing with 4 generations and different working styles of each generation. They have it broken down into the "greatest generation" the "baby boomers" the "generation X" and the "generation y." I don't tell them (well some I do) but all those generations can be divided between Pluto in Cancer, Pluto in Leo, Pluto in Virgo and Pluto in Libra. All these diverse generational values, ethics, work habits are brought into play. Of course the youngest generation just entering the workplace receive the most criticism. The Pluto in Libra Group (Y Generation) are considered demanding, assertive, questioning, expect "fair and balance" (but that doesn't mean both sides of an issue to them, it means something else) you can see their "Aries" shadow in their aggressive or in your face style. The ones I've seen and worked with and that have had a great deal of research done on, will not automatically give respect and value to a person because of their money, status, or accomplishments. They don't seem to see authority as "having" a right to exert authority unless they continually prove themselves to deserve that authority. I don't find them rude, but in a hurry and they do look at both sides of an issue and I find their ideas for change to be refreshing, more so than other generations. They don't see boundaries and I find that refreshing, I've wondered how they will do with "life's" restrictions, such as having families, losing jobs when they need to support a family etc. But I do see they are bringing a pretty positive energy in right now.

Well, Cap'n Sally, I do hope those Pluto in Libra people also bring their refreshing qualities in a big way to places like China and Burma and others were brutal repression is the norm.

Ooops. Didn't hit the 'k' key hard enough when typing my name in the above post. Anyway, 'twas I.

This is cool:
http://englishrussia.com/?p=537

Ever painted a building, QOP?

Gilgamesh, LOL, no I'm not "butthurt" about "my boy" being "dissed" on the ADB. Mumin's big enough to handle criticism and certainly doesn't need me to defend him, although I do think it would be nice to alow those who are dumped on to defend themselves. From the looks of things in certain quarters, that doesn't seem to be the case.

Un-named (interesting how they tend to be the loudest voices, but won't affix their name, isn't it?) quoted me accurately, but not completely (sound familiar? Didn't he/or most likely she do the exact same thing to Mumin on ADB?). Its true that I voted for Gore in 2000 and Bush in 2004, but I also voted for Clinton twice. I suppose little facts like those don't count.

As for the Iraq War, my question has always been to those who think as you do, what should be done with people like Al Qaeda? With people who came very close to killing Bhutto just the other day? To people who cut people's heads off? Do we treat that like some run of the mill crime? And if so, how? What is the "progressive" solution to these problems, other than blogging all day in a mutual preenin contest? Folks on the left side of the spectrum haven't even figured out how to win elections at home to say nothing of fighting terrorism abroad. Waiting for your detailed answers, and I'll be happy to answer any questions you may have. Thanks.

Gilgamesh, LOL, no I'm not "butthurt" about "my boy" being "dissed" on the ADB. Mumin's big enough to handle criticism and certainly doesn't need me to defend him, although I do think it would be nice to alow those who are dumped on to defend themselves. From the looks of things in certain quarters, that doesn't seem to be the case.

Un-named (interesting how they tend to be the loudest voices, but won't affix their name, isn't it?) quoted me accurately, but not completely (sound familiar? Didn't he/or most likely she do the exact same thing to Mumin on ADB?). Its true that I voted for Gore in 2000 and Bush in 2004, but I also voted for Clinton twice. I suppose little facts like those don't count.

As for the Iraq War, my question has always been to those who think as you do, what should be done with people like Al Qaeda? With people who came very close to killing Bhutto just the other day? To people who cut people's heads off? Do we treat that like some run of the mill crime? And if so, how? What is the "progressive" solution to these problems, other than blogging all day in a mutual preenin contest? Folks on the left side of the spectrum haven't even figured out how to win elections at home to say nothing of fighting terrorism abroad. Waiting for your detailed answers, and I'll be happy to answer any questions you may have. Thanks.

I hope the Libra bunch in some of these other countries do just that Shy, but we use energy the way we have been taught to use it, depending on our individual experiences. The same energy that builds also destroys. Some can't see any other options but destruction, a failure of imagination so to speak. Some with Pluto in Libra haven't had any other experience but anger and violence and revenge, other's see opportunities for growth and sharing and understanding. What's that saying "if everything was an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, we would all be blind and toothless."

Gilgamesh, LOL, no I'm not "butthurt" about "my boy" being "dissed" on the ADB. Mumin's big enough to handle criticism and certainly doesn't need me to defend him, although I do think it would be nice to alow those who are dumped on to defend themselves. From the looks of things in certain quarters, that doesn't seem to be the case.

Un-named (interesting how they tend to be the loudest voices, but won't affix their name, isn't it?) quoted me accurately, but not completely (sound familiar? Didn't he/or most likely she do the exact same thing to Mumin on ADB?). Its true that I voted for Gore in 2000 and Bush in 2004, but I also voted for Clinton twice. I suppose little facts like those don't count.

As for the Iraq War, my question has always been to those who think as you do, what should be done with people like Al Qaeda? With people who came very close to killing Bhutto just the other day? To people who cut people's heads off? Do we treat that like some run of the mill crime? And if so, how? What is the "progressive" solution to these problems, other than blogging all day in a mutual preenin contest? Folks on the left side of the spectrum haven't even figured out how to win elections at home or get anything done when they do (Democratic Congress approval rating: 11%), to say nothing of fighting terrorism abroad. Waiting for your detailed answers, and I'll be happy to answer any questions you may have. Thanks.

This was recently written by Michael Collins of Scoop published in NZ. Even though it relates to the 2004 election, many many people have been working to get the information out regarding the stolen election in 2004 and the need to make sure our voting machines can stand the test of honest and fair elections without the election fraud that has been going on in this country. It's a good article and one to watch.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0710/S00300.htm

Michael, you just answered a question with a question. I think that we should stop financing al Qaeda, tell the public that bin Laden already died years ago and move from an economy that's based on death, hatred and lies to one that's based on peaceful cooperation. Now, tell me what the justification for invading the sovereign nation of Iraq is? Was that your answer? al Qaeda?

May I also ask why you are not over there fighting? Can you give a straight answer to that particular question, or will you just come back with some tired, duplicitous response?

lol @ the brave blogging keyboard brigade - let's face it, neither of us is going to back down from our opinion, so um, enjoy your echo chamber?

Gilgamesh

http://www.idleworm.com/tww/2004/ep0004-041123.shtml

You show them al Qaedas! Get em!

I just ran across this awesome clip of Garry Kasparov explaining his view of oil wars on Bill Maher's show:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=LQYyPooETcI

I'm going the fair-use route here.

Glancing at his chart, I'm surprised at not seeing a predominance of air, although I couldn't find a birth time. However, some of the usual "brilliant mind" aspects stick out (I saw the Mercury/Mars square, said "mmhm"), Mercury/Saturn contraparallel and Mercury/Pluto trine. The latter especially would lend itself to a mind for power politics, especially combined with an aspect indicating a desire to be in control as much as possible - the Sun/Saturn contact, in this case a sextile.

The one thing I've noticed very consistently about Mercury in Taurus is that its natives don't like to speak until they're sure of what they're going to say. This can be mistaken for a slow mind, but as you can see in the video and Kasparov's undisputed mastery of chess that this is indeed not the case. And of course Merc/Mars will speed things up, he just likes to be very sure and also polite and diplomatic as would be the case with that Venus-ruled position.

He seems pretty serious about running for president of Russia! He's right, Putin just played Bush like it was nothing.

Part of the roots of the Mideast tension is the fact that the United States and Europe fund militarily the most repressive governments in the area-Egypt, Israel, Saudi Arabia. All to preserve free access and cheap access to oil and trade routes. When peaceful dissent is cracked down upon, there is little choice but to be militant. The money we are now spending (I use the imperial we) in Iraq could pay for transitioning into a freer future away from fossil fuels. The money we now spend giving Egypt guns could help us make a better life for people here who have been waiting for that "peace dividend".

With billions no longer going to the war machines of those nations, the people there could finally have governments that respond to their needs. When that happens groups like Al Quaeda will shrink to just about nothing but the diehards.

Claudia, thank you for sharing your insight. As one of those Libra Plutos, I've enjoyed reading this conversation.

I've been working, what is it now? 60? 70 hours per week for the past few years? In part, by "choice" to pay off the accumulated debt from college and a couple of business failures of my "youth" (if I can say that now, having recently passed my first Saturn Return).

I say "choice" because I suppose I bought into all of those lies that doing these things would get me "ahead". It didn't. I see others who have been madly successful though, but observing them gives me the feeling that somehow they were either very, very lucky, or else somehow rigged this grand capitalistic game in their favor.

And yet they, the Murdochs, Bushes, Cheneys (Lynn in particular), and yes even Clintons somehow expect me to kneel down and kiss their feet for little more than mastering the art of stabbing people in the back, and then smiling into their faces! Sorry folks, I prefer to stand.

"Pluto is survival, right down to the cellular level. Saturn will square T-Pluto in 2010 when it goes into Libra and conjoin the natal Plutos of the Pluto in Libra generation. Wow. I wonder what this group will bring to us? What will they say and do about a world gone madly OUT of balance?"

We'll bring order to it somehow, because, simply put, somebody has to.

"Claudia, my experience with Pluto in Libra and one the "workforce" complains about is they don't expect (and won't) to work 60/80 hours a week. It's a complaint in the corporations I deal with that this generation will give you loyality 8 hours a day and after that they figure their time should be their own. Corporations do complain about that, I think it's fabulous and I think they will force some better work/life balance in years to come."

I can certainly attest to that, Sally. One of my jobs has become increasingly demanding in that way. You work for them, all the time, and they send you wherever THEY want you to go. Wasn't always so. But question "the boss" and his napoleonic complex, and you will find yourself on a one-way trip out the door.

Needless to say, I am looking for somewhere else to land before I find my way to that door. I'm not the first, and won't be the last. But he actually has the nerve to figuratively waive a stack of applications in front of us in meetings, claiming that he can always hire someone else to do the job as he wants it. I doubt if he'll find the endless tolerance for his power-trip that he thinks from the Libra and Scorpio Plutos.

Hi Gilgamesh. Sure, I'll answer your questions. Why am I not over there fighting? The same reason you're not: because neither of us volunteered. No one was drafted to go there, Gilgamesh, although I will say, that if I were drafted, I would go. Would you?

How do you know OBL is dead? What proof do you have of such an assertion? Where did you get this from? And how do you know that once OBL is indeed no longer on this earth, that Al Qaeda and likeminded outfits, will stop?

And what, exactly, kind of businesses "based on life" are you talking about? What examples can you show me of such a thing in action, right now?

I welcome any other questions you may have, Gilgamesh. Those who really want to get things done usually are those who are willing to take a hard look at their weaknesses.

Democratic-lead Congressional approval rating: 11%

Gilgamesh, thanks for the mini-analysis of Kasparov's birthdate. Would you mind posting that and the location etc., here in the thread? Thanks.

As for his actual chances of winning an election against Putin, hell freezes over first. I agree with you that Putin's no choir boy, but we also have to recognize the fact that he's got massive public approval support as well, something like 70%-plus, on-par with what Clinton had back in the 90s.

Also: it seems there's a rift growing between the leading Democrats, concerning Harry Reid. One of the first signs that a losing team knows its losing is when the players begin turning on each other. Something the Democrats can least afford, because they are inherently fractious to begin with-please note the Sun-Moon square, etc., in the DP chart.

Neobuckeye, I'm a bit past my Saturn return, but we both share Pluto in Libra. While I hear what you're saying I'd have to respectfully disagree. I don't think imposing more limits as to how little or how much a person wants to work is the answer here. Those who don't like or want such things can find employers who will accomodate them. But to somehow force employers to do this I don't think is the answer.

I personally don't have a problem with working many hours, but then again I don't have a problem with earning more money either, LOL. Having a successful law practice has its perks.

Oh, Gilgamesh, I forgot to answer your other question: how and why we went into Iraq. Well, the stated reason was that Saddam Hussein had WMD. We believed this, but so too did the French, Russians, Israelis (I know some of you here feel the same way about Jewish people as Ahmedinejad does), British and Germans. President Bill Clinton himself felt the same way, and sent a care package of Tomohawk missiles to Baghdad to that effect.

Now as it turns out, the WMD wasn't there, but that wasn't the fault of your usual suspects, but rather Saddam himself. You see, he was interested in giving the appearance to his enemies in the region that he either had WMD or was in the process of getting them, hence all of the runarounds he was giving Blix & Co. A shellgame that he played badly.

All that said, I do agree that Bush & Co. handled the whole matter badly, but where I part company with my friends on the progressive side is that it wasn't a planned affair but a botched operation, and Carol's right, there are always people on the sidelines waiting to take advantage of situation. There were carpetbaggers back during the Civil War, and there are carpetbaggers now. But that's different from saying that Lincoln or Bush put them there.

Wars are extremely chaotic affairs, study any of them and that fact soon emerges from your study. Bush should have been more forthcoming about the need to remake the Middle East into a place that's more friendly to the US, but perhaps he knew that fat and happy Americans aren't willing to fight and die to secure their right to blog away unimpeded.

Before anyone, including you Gilgamesh, trots the same tired stuff to hurl at me, let me say that I'm completely cool with a quick and speedy withdrawl from Iraq, today. If that's something the majority of Americans want, and by all accounts it is, I say lets pack it in. Let Al Qaeda, or another Saddam-like strongman, takeover Iraq and its environs. Hopefully we can build up walls high enough to keep out both the undesirables and most importantly the terrorists.

Sally, very interesting comments about the generations, thanks! I just wanted to point out, concerning we Pluto in Libras, that perhaps we're already beginning to get a glimpse of what my generation will bring: a recent study, can't remember the source, stated that couples have vastly different views of marriage than folks of your generation. If I find it I'll let you know.

For another perspective on the Generations; read the comments below this article by Helen Renier, and SEAL, ( last comment down) who is talking about his 20 year old son and his 40 year old daughter, a Math Professor..........

http://www.capitolhillblue.com/cont/node/3591
The STARK reality
October 20, 2007 - 8:41pm.

By ROBERT A. KEZELIS

One California congresscritter may have a short temper, but he has a far longer attention span. Rep. P. Stark, (D-CA) has that enviable way with words that most people dream about.

QOP

What better way to begin your Monday morning than with a big helping of absurdity?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3038032

Just for another helping Shy of the absurd, this article about Iran and Reality puts things into perspective. The article is excellent

http://www.newsweek.com/id/57346

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/21/magazine/21water-t.html?_r=3&oref=slogin&pagewanted=all&oref=slogin

The Future Is Drying Up

...Steven Chu, a Nobel laureate and the director of the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory, one of the United States government’s pre-eminent research facilities, remarked that diminished supplies of fresh water might prove a far more serious problem than slowly rising seas. When I met with Chu last summer in Berkeley, the snowpack in the Sierra Nevada, which provides most of the water for Northern California, was at its lowest level in 20 years. Chu noted that even the most optimistic climate models for the second half of this century suggest that 30 to 70 percent of the snowpack will disappear. “There’s a two-thirds chance there will be a disaster,” Chu said, “and that’s in the best scenario.”

In the Southwest this past summer, the outlook was equally sobering. A catastrophic reduction in the flow of the Colorado River — which mostly consists of snowmelt from the Rocky Mountains — has always served as a kind of thought experiment for water engineers, a risk situation from the outer edge of their practical imaginations. Some 30 million people depend on that water. A greatly reduced river would wreak chaos in seven states: Colorado, Utah, Wyoming, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada and California. An almost unfathomable legal morass might well result, with farmers suing the federal government; cities suing cities; states suing states; Indian nations suing state officials; and foreign nations (by treaty, Mexico has a small claim on the river) bringing international law to bear on the United States government. In addition, a lesser Colorado River would almost certainly lead to a considerable amount of economic havoc, as the future water supplies for the West’s industries, agriculture and growing municipalities are threatened. As one prominent Western water official described the possible future to me, if some of the Southwest’s largest reservoirs empty out, the region would experience an apocalypse, “an Armageddon.”

more...

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/22/nyregion/22oswego.html

Inch by Inch, Great Lakes Shrink, and Cargo Carriers Face Losses

[snip]
Water levels in the Great Lakes are falling; Lake Ontario, for example, is about seven inches below where it was a year ago. And for every inch of water that the lakes lose, the ships that ferry bulk materials across them must lighten their loads by 270 tons — or 540,000 pounds — or risk running aground, according to the Lake Carriers’ Association, a trade group for United States-flag cargo companies.

[snip]
The water levels in all five Great Lakes — Superior, Michigan, Huron, Erie and Ontario — are below long-term averages and are likely to stay that way until at least March, according to the Army Corps of Engineers. (The same is true at Lake St. Clair, which straddles the border between the state of Michigan and the province of Ontario and is between Lake Huron and Lake Erie; it is not considered one of the Great Lakes, although it is part of the Great Lakes system.)

Most environmental researchers say that low precipitation, mild winters and high evaporation, due largely to a lack of heavy ice covers to shield cold lake waters from the warmer air above, are depleting the lakes. The Great Lakes follow a natural cycle, their levels rising in the spring, peaking in the summer and reaching a low in the winter, as the evaporation rate rises.

In the past two years, evaporation has been higher than average, and not enough rain and snow have fallen in the upper lakes — Superior, Michigan and Huron — which supply water to the lower lakes, to restore the system to its normal levels, said Keith Kompoltowicz, a meteorologist at the Corps of Engineers’ office in Detroit, which monitors water levels in the lakes. “Mother Nature is largely the driving force on what the water levels are, and it plays a large role in what we project water levels to be,” Mr. Kompoltowicz said.

more...

Do you think they are ramping up their Iran talk to try and keep many people from knowing about this?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=BV-REM00YbY

As I understand it, this is part of the interview that was not presented on the tee vee, but is available at the website. Not having a tee vee, I may have misunderstood.

So, Plame was doing all she could to prevent Iran from getting nuclear weapons and then somebody got mad at her husband and . . .

Under the heading "A Little Old Fashioned Karma Coming Down":

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/21/AR2007102101643.html?hpid=features1&hpv=local

Low Road to Splitsville
Right-Wing Publisher's Breakup Is Super-Rich In Tawdry Details

Richard Mellon Scaife meet karma.

I don't think you misunderstood SHy,
I had that info, nailed several years ago, by connecting the dots pointed out by various websites, you know the "crazy conspiracy" ones like Arctic Beacon, Tom FLocos..they were right all along and several steps ahead of the game!
If I failed to convey it clearly to this site forgive me...lots of stuff going on to distract me!

QOP

Yup Shylurker, DU often does come off as a bit absurd. And what does the publishing thing have to do with astrology? Just curious.

Oh Pat C....that article MADE MY DAY!
It's kinda scary the number of 'NICCCCCCE" posters who found it offensive. Until they wise up, it makes it that much harder to make "liberty and justice for all!
Michael the 9th house rules publishing.........
QOP

Here's some more 9th house publishing info. See pages in Plame's book that have been redacted and learn how anchor bolts on her deck mysteriously disappeared (12th house?).
http://allday.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/10/22/423569.aspx

hi all,

First a shout out to Garry!
Sending light for your dad. Wasn't Chiron on your Sun for the last 15 months or so? The inconvenient benefic is Chiron. You are like AW's test study of it's effects, a life make-over. WOW!

Pat Q, do not feed the rude, stubborn, arrogant, not invited in, nor wanted troll. Sally's ship has a serious Klingon.

I must return to lurk mode as my projects are way too hectic right now to concentrate on the political dramas of money hungry incompetents who have not changed. Channeling my anger and frustrations through another writing/art project that is about our current collective climate but provides an escape hatch for kids. So much chaos. The yogi part of me knows that the clean up begins within.

http://www.progressivedailybeacon.com/more.php?page=opinion&id=1712

American Fascism - Time to Speak Out

The Bush administration and today's extremist-wing of the Republican Party are Nazi-like in many respects and it is absurd for any reasonable person to pretend otherwise. Sorry, but save your feigned rebuttals for someone preferring to have his or her fears soothed by nonsensical rationalizations.

To know what is happening, all one need do is watch a segment of FOX News. Afterwards it won't take long to realize that the administration and extremist-wing of the Republican Party have a full-blown Goebbels-like propaganda network working overtime to make truths, lies and lies, truths. It is no longer a matter of putting forth political ideas -- hence the all-out rebellion by true Conservative Republicans -- FOX News and the extremist Republican Radio Network are pitching ideology. Indeed, there are few differences between the administration, today's extremist-wing of the Republican Party and Hitler's Nazis. One important difference is that neither Bush nor the GOP has gotten around to stoking the ovens. That isn't to say, however, that it can't or won't happen.

more...

http://www.progressivedailybeacon.com/more.php?page=opinion&id=1712

American Fascism - Time to Speak Out

The Bush administration and today's extremist-wing of the Republican Party are Nazi-like in many respects and it is absurd for any reasonable person to pretend otherwise. Sorry, but save your feigned rebuttals for someone preferring to have his or her fears soothed by nonsensical rationalizations.

To know what is happening, all one need do is watch a segment of FOX News. Afterwards it won't take long to realize that the administration and extremist-wing of the Republican Party have a full-blown Goebbels-like propaganda network working overtime to make truths, lies and lies, truths. It is no longer a matter of putting forth political ideas -- hence the all-out rebellion by true Conservative Republicans -- FOX News and the extremist Republican Radio Network are pitching ideology. Indeed, there are few differences between the administration, today's extremist-wing of the Republican Party and Hitler's Nazis. One important difference is that neither Bush nor the GOP has gotten around to stoking the ovens. That isn't to say, however, that it can't or won't happen.

more...

QOP, noted in your Capitol Hill Blue post the following line ...

"What was also predictable was the response of the Democratic leadershi* in Congress. If you can call it that."

... "Democrataic leadershi*" ... cracked me up. I'm always looking for new lines.

thanks for the laugh of the day!

Poor Richard Mellon Scaife and Karma can be painful. (July 3, 1932, Pittsburgh, PA. noon time)
I fear Mr. Scaife's problems are not over, not even close, I am sure he will not lose all of his considerable fortune because a great deal will fall into the hands of his children, but he will lost a considerable amount by the time the divorce is complete next year. The newspapers he supports will most definitely go, including the conservative Newsmax

Poor, poor Richard. I hope his children and his soon to be ex-wife are a little less fascist, and can find better ways to use their money.

..........

The Case Against Expanding Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act Powers

Why, Even If You Have Nothing To Hide, Government Surveillance Threatens Your Freedom:

By JOHN W. DEAN

http://writ.lp.findlaw.com/dean/20071019.html

After all Scaife has done to destroy others' lives, I think it only fitting he should lose one of the "organs" used to publicize his lies and distortions. Apparently, there was no pre-nup arrangement, either, so his big bucks are fair game. (Sorry, I got kinda lost in the pun thing)

Sorry to be OT, but I thought some may like to know that I'm on the radio this coming Thursday (25th) at 2pm PST. Here's the website details: http://www.contacttalkradio.com/hosts/chrisflisher.htm

I hope it's alright, Sally, that I have posted it here!

Greetings from DownHere
Lynda

shylurker, the Plame scandal is a massive miscarriage of justice, as well as the silencing of Sibel Edmonds. I was disgusted when Scooter Libby got a slap on the wrist for what I and many, many others consider treason. Outing a CIA agent engaged in serious undercover work to prevent uranium and WMD getting in the wrong hands so you can keep your buddies in business and your no-bid contracts pumping taxpayer money out of the treasury at an alarming clip is very, very wrong. You'd think that alone would be enough of a travesty to justify impeachment, but I guess a blowjob is terrorism. Unfortunately it's us who are going to get stuck with the bill and the blowback. It's almost like their strategy is some kind of "shockskrieg" where they commit so many heinous crimes at one time that people don't know where to start. Hell, if I was engaged in a coup d'etat of the USA, that's how I'd do it.

Well, not enough time to put a gallery up, but here's a few pictures I took from the Sept. 2005 antiwar protest:

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/848*9/53919423196d5f30daih6.jpg
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/7788/53916249655af7470awv9.jpg
http://img484.imageshack.us/img484/1884/53920624fc589c0261uo5.jpg
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/76/53916251f428aade93aa1.jpg
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/130/5392062501bd8ddf49mx7.jpg
http://img484.imageshack.us/img484/7301/539145009299a6ffeake5.jpg

Easily 150,000 people. There was no visible beginning or end to the procession.

I'm still surprised that Sally (et al?) had little clue about these protests. I guess only the ones where violence breaks out get any real old media attention, for obvious reasons.

Gilgamesh

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3kI8LNTqNo

Quick video clip of Fox News correspondents doing what they do best. Worth it just to see George Carlin sneering at some GOP bot.

And by GOP I mean Grand Old Paedos.

Gilgamesh

"A stunning set-back for the government." I wonder how much this trial cost the taxpayers.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071022/ap_on_re_us/muslim_charity_trial;_ylt=AtqncMCmeSovYzNSn8t.OTys0NUE

Gilgamesh,
I couldn't access image shack, but I'm fairly certain that cspan showed those protests. The first one Oct 02, was shown in real time and rerun in the middle of he night. As time progressed they showed less & less in prime time, but still the middle of the night( or at 3 AM ) for the determined. I have tried to catch them because for me they are a soothing balm.
QOP

Ugh, I wish I could edit that post - the first image has a typo in it, not sure how it got there (*shakes fist at merc rx*), but the remaining images work, QOP!

Gilgamesh

QOP, do you have your natal Moon in Scorpio? Did I catch that right?

Gilgamesh

Yes I do...23o Scorpio!
QOP

Me too!! When I was first introduced to astrology in 1992, I was quite skeptical of it until I read about my Moon in Scorpio position and its house placements and planetary aspects. From then on, I haven't stopped studying it. What aspects do you have to it, and what house placement? Mine is in the 9th house, in close applying conjunct to Mercury, both at 11' Sco.

Once, on a bet with an ex, I emailed Robert Hand because I knew damn well he is a Sag with Moon in Sco like me. For some silly reason (well she's a Leo with Moon in Taurus) she thought he had Moon in Taurus. Bzzzt! Robert Hand emailed me promptly with the bet-winning answer. Ahem I won't tell you what the prize was :D

Gilgamesh

Sun will move into Scorpio soon opposing a full moon! Trick or treat! (various Darth Vader breathing and ghoul cackling)

Gilgamesh, Moon to Mercury is first of all a high degree of intelligence and at 11 degrees Scorpio indicates master astrologer (keep studying) 11 Scorpio is the astrological degree, read Mimosa, Acrux (particularly Acrux) Alphecca and Menkent

http://users.winshop.com.au/annew/new_page_1.htm

Absolutely Lynda, I am thrilled to hear you will be on the radio and I know the rest of the board will be as well. I have a Board Retreat and two day Leadership Training and won't be able to listen so I hope someone else will and report or you report back to us as to how it went. Good luck

Congratulations, Lynda for your getting on the radio!

Did Robert Murat Take Madeleine?
http://www.stariq.com/Main/Articles/P0008244.HTM

Dunno about the ethics of this one
Sure they didn't actually say he did it but it gets pretty damn close.
And since it's a current case maybe a wee bit insensitive

And since currently there's some discussion on Moon/Pluto connections

Murat's Moon-Pluto conjunction indicates he's no stranger to the dark side.

I'm sure that doesn't apply to our posters on AW:-)

Since we've gone all off topic, I'm wondering what the astrologers here think of the recent events up in Portland Maine? Astrologically, how do you explain the move to offer birth control to 11 year girls, and do you consider this a good or bad thing and why? This is something me and my colleagues have been kicking the ball around with over the past few days. Thanks.

http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1687382007

The land the world forgot becomes a coveted prize

NOT since the Golden Age of the Empire has Britain staked its claim to such a vast area of land on the world stage. And while the British Empire may be long gone, the Antarctic has emerged as the latest battleground for rival powers competing on several fronts to secure valuable oil-rich territory.

It was once seen as a harsh and barren landscape, an inhospitable wilderness that could yield nothing for mankind and for generations it remained overlooked. But today several countries are vying for a piece of what lies beneath the forgotten continent.

Britain is planning to lay claim to huge tracts of the Antarctic, with the Foreign Office drawing up a submission to the United Nations that 386,000 sq miles of sea bed in the south Atlantic should be declared British.

And the reason for the sudden interest? The area is thought to contain lucrative reserves of oil and natural gas, although under the 1959 Antarctic Treaty the search for these reserves could not begin until 2048.

More...

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2007/10/23/blackwater_border/

Blackwater’s run for the border

The notorious security contractor has plans for a military-style complex near the U.S.-Mexico border. Critics worry the firm’s “mercenary soldiers” could join the U.S. border patrol.

Thank you, Sally and Carol - good fun!

Hi Sally
Just was thinking about Hillary Clinton and the fact that this upcoming full moon is smack on her Sun - we'll it's a full moon on her birthday - the Sun is on her Sun. I wonder how this will affect her? I'm thinking she'll find increased opposition and I'd hazard a guess that they'll be further targeting her looks or how she comes across as a woman or whatever...

A tidbit about her chart...the Sabian Symbol for her Scorpio Sun is Scorpio 3: Neighbors Coming Together in a House Building Party... she wrote a book titled It Takes a Village...

Hi Lynda! I'm excited to hear you on the radio! Congratulations!

Cap'n Sally told us more and more and more repulsive stuff would be oozing out from that giant boil. And here's more:
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/General_claims_Bush_gave_marching_orders_1022.html

"Makes me want to holler, throw up both my hands."
As true today as then. Will it never end?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDckI2P_DPA

I hope that somehow the indigenous people
s rights are more respected this time than they were in more temperate climates. True, they can vote and are considered citizens now, but they aren't in sufficient numbers by themselves to swing the essential votes on things like this.

I also wonder if this isn't the petroleum king's last battle. The earth, especially in California: I will cast and post California's chart on my blog a little later: is saying that it's time to cut back on our petroleum/coal diet and let the earth cool off and get some water.

Conscience problem: I know I need to be more green-but I run the tv allnight for my cat's amusement. I have coupons for more energy efficient lightbulbs, but I must go to Walmart to redeem them. My computer uses a CRT instead of a cooler LCD flatscreen, but the replacement would be $200 bucks. My building does have a recycling program I participate in, and we do have an herb garden...And I am about to put up a new website extolling the new Green Economy. What should I really do?

NSPD 51: Bush to lead Three Branches of Government in a Catastrophic Emergency

NSPD 51: Bush to lead Three Branches of Government in a Catastrophic Emergency
http://www.roguegovernment.com/news.php?id=2169

The directive defines Enduring Constitutional Government as the following.

"Enduring Constitutional Government," or "ECG," means a cooperative effort among the executive, legislative, and judicial branches of the Federal Government, coordinated by the President, as a matter of comity with respect to the legislative and judicial branches and with proper respect for the constitutional separation of powers among the branches, to preserve the constitutional framework under which the Nation is governed and the capability of all three branches of government to execute constitutional responsibilities and provide for orderly succession, appropriate transition of leadership, and interoperability and support of the National Essential Functions during a catastrophic emergency;

Further on in the document it states the following.

The President shall lead the activities of the Federal Government for ensuring constitutional government.

New presidential directive gives Bush dictatorial power
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=CHI20070521&articleId=5720

National Security & Homeland Security Presidential Directive
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/05/20070509-12.html

URL of this article:

http://peaceinspace.blogs.com/campaign_for_a_positive_f/2007/05/nspd_51_bush_to.html

Posted at 06:26 PM in FALSE FLAG OPERATIONS | Permalink

Gilgamesh, I'm thrilled to see younger astrologers. When I learned my stuff, people back then called it a passing thing that would fade when the "hippies" would, and that younger generations would reject it as something outdated. I assume you are early Pluto in Libra? or Virgo?

WV, pray there isn't one while the Resident is still President. That's probably the best prayer overall. Given his malign neglect, we would be better off on our own. Notice that in the horrific California fires, nobody even asks where Bush is. Nobody wants his intervention.

For people who want so desperately to impose their will on the unwilling public, their lasting legacy will be the ironic strengthening of State power and resources. No President, but a Council of Governors?

CAROL,
Can you expand your herb garden a bit? I don't know what your climate is there, here in Maine I am experimenting with growing some things year around, with the space restrictions, & short days, I have.
Rainbow chard did nicely in a wondow box, thru the winter, lettuce? spinach? ( needs cool) tomatoes are perenniels. This year I have 3 lovely potted ones, cherry, yellow pear, and peach melba ( a delicious little pink & yellow, with a matt finish like a peach.) It volunteered, in the garden this summer, so I potted it and brought it in. As much for continueing the "blood line", as I don't remember where it came from! Any thing of tis nature uses less fuel to transport from somewhere.
Reuters has an article this moirning about beef, causing way too much methane in the atmosphere, cut that out of your diet if you haven't already.
Can you find some kind of Rube Goldberg thing that
runs on gravity for the cats amusement. Try Edmunds Scientific if they stil exhist.
QOP

QQP, for the outside garden that will be something I bring up next spring with the garden committee...but I may try again to cultivate an indoor green thumb, as I miss the scent of greenery. My unit is so dry in the winter, though, so lots of luck. I will find a cat toy. Kirby gets so listless and bored because I spend way too much time on the computer. I needs to be self-propelled because the toys I have given him don't seem to amuse him at all.

Except for an occasional chuck steak, not a lot of beef in my diet.(I actually eat a little more pork, but mostly chicken)

"For people who want so desperately to impose their will on the unwilling public, their lasting legacy will be the ironic strengthening of State power and resources. No President, but a Council of Governors?"

That will probably be Dick Cheney's true legacy, Carol. He has pushed so much to augment and consolidate executive power during his political career. The irony is that there will be a correction, and we will eventually see executive power diminished and decentralized to the same, if not greater extreme.

To a large extent local and regional governments will grow in significance and their own authority during Pluto's transit of Capricorn, as resource management -- including the basic necessities of life as the US South is now dealing with -- reaches the forefront of our collective attention. That's something the states and metropolitan/regional governments -- of which there aren't many true and working forms now, but soon will be -- can and will handle better and more efficiently than our bought-off and bankrupt (in many ways) national government.

People in Georgia, Alabama, Tennesee, the Carolinas and Florida are much more aware and concerned now about what their governors, mayors and legislators are doing to address the imminent water shortages. Similar water issues have been brewing for years in the West and will likely come to a head over the next several years there. Virutally everyone, though, will be affected by energy, or perhaps the lack thereof, as oil and energy prices rise due to lack of availability. Signs are pointing to the very real possibility that we have passed global peak oil production.

What are we going to do about it all? The basics we take for granted, including heating, cooling and even food, are coming into question. We need answers... real, working ones. The 2010s. Uranus in Aries, Pluto in Capricorn. Whatever we are collectively and individually capable of, this will be The Time to find out.

Here ya go, Shy--
This is the article I've been waiting to read.
It claims to tell the actual 9/11 plan as it happened, from the horse's(Mossad's) mouth:

http://www.tbrnews.org/Archives/a2774.htm

"Allegedly", the "Prez" and VP knew about it in advance but allowed it to proceed, "assisting" the WTC destruction with planted thermite.

More interference with US foreign policy!

Meridor: We must be ready to preempt threats

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hilary leila krieger, jerusalem post correspondent , THE JERUSALEM POST Oct. 23, 2007

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Israeli Ambassador to the US Sallai Meridor declared Monday that Israel should always be prepared "to preempt, to deter and to defeat if we can" when speaking about the threats facing the country.

Chief among those threats was Iran, said Meridor, who called for a unified international as well as domestic American front to counter the Islamic Republic's nuclear ambitions.

"This will take a united United States on this matter, that they would not have the illusion today that come January '09, they [Teheran] have it their own way," he said, referring to the inauguration of President George W. Bush's successor, who could potentially change US policy on Iran.

Meridor said "very little time" remained to keep Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon and to avoid the worst-case scenarios, outlined by French President Nicolas Sarkozy, of an Iranian bomb or a war with Iran.

"There may be a third way still, but only if the diplomatic and economic steps could be dramatically - not incrementally - intensified," he said, adding that 33 percent of Iran's trade is with Europe.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1192380626865&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FPrinter

OpEdNews

Original Content at http://www.opednews.com/articles/genera_dave_lin_071022_sen__chris_dodd_s_ma.htm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
October 22, 2007

Sen. Chris Dodd's Make or Break Moment

By Dave Lindorff

President Bush is no chump. He has figured out how to emasculate the Democrats (those that aren't already eunuchs). Instead of making a decent estimate of the cost of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and asking for it up front for the 2008 fiscal year, he is asking for it piecemeal, giving Democrats opportunity after opportunity to turn him down and end it all, knowing all the while that they'll cave and give him his war money.

Each time he does this, and each time House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid's minions deliver, the Democrats sink in public esteem, to the point that they're now approaching single-digit approval ratings.

Sen. Chris Dodd (D-CT), a veteran legislator and son of a senator, and a contender for the Democratic presidential nomination, has shown, however, how to fight back. Not on the war funding, although he claims to want the war ended immediately, but on the issue of the Constitution, and specifically the warrantless spying on Americans by the National Security Agency.

http://www.opednews.com/maxwrite/print_friendly.php?p=genera_dave_lin_071022_sen__chris_dodd_s_ma.htm

Not to mention, Neo, that his moves to federalize the National Guard has left states unable to deal with crisis very effectively. Forget natural disasters for a moment, what about riots? The solution offered is private expensive and unaccountable armies from Blackwater, et al, instead of citizen soldiers. Forget whether or not they are working for the state's interest or the interest of their federal-or even international paymasters. Natural disasters, just pray and hope that your local police and fire can somehow handle these issues-or have the city hire the contractors if they can't.

'll try again.I got filtered earlier/
QOP

Hello,isanyone there?

http://www.history.com/minisite.do?content_type=mini_home&mini_id=56121

Filter's here? I've seen the site go down a few times lately, but a filter?

Here goes"
No flashes yet on Government structure, but I suspect deevolution will be a factor. State Governors will take greater power due to the need to handle the immediate crisis, and several great ones rise to the challenge. Indeed, one of the changes may well be that a Council of Governors becomes part of the Federal Legislative Process somehow and can counter a President who is too arrogant for words. They may even have a seat in Congress to represent their interests-an overall Senator and an overall Congressperson, or they may designate one.

Read the rest of my essay on the subject. Fresh from a lively discussion on Kos about making the holiday a greener one!

No flashes yet on Government structure, but I suspect deevolution will be a factor. State Governors will take greater power due to the need to handle the immediate crisis, and several great ones rise to the challenge. Indeed, one of the changes may well be that a Council of Governors becomes part of the Federal Legislative Process somehow and can counter a President who is too arrogant for words. They may even have a seat in Congress to represent their interests-an overall Senator and an overall Congressperson, or they may designate one.

My essay, so feel free. I didn't post the whole thing because I realized it would be too long.

http://d21c.com/aquariusmoon/regreening.html

Quote du Jour

As mankind becomes more liberal, they will be more able to allow that those who conduct themselves as worthy members of the community are equally entitled to the protection of civil government. I hope ever to see America among the foremost nations in examples of justice and liberality.
— George Washington (1732-1799) First President of the United States

Very funny video...

http://www.youtube.com:80/watch?v=UQFAe0baJT8

I just came to read the posts here, and usually when I am pressed for time, I start with the last post, and work my way backwards. Well, what a revelation Garry's post was to me. I am usually skeptical about conspiracy theories, but there are 2 factors that make me lean towards believing that there might be some truth in that link that Garry posted.

1) I noticed that when President Bush was shown on TV at that Florida school, and he was told of the attack, his reaction was strange to say the least. He did not react with the usual shock that the average normal person did at the news. He was calm and looked like he was actually trying to pretend that he was shocked, but it was not a natural reasponse.

2) There was an article buried in the NY Times a short while after the event, to the effect that a woman from her apartment window in New Jersey at the time of the attack, observed 5 men who stopped in a car, got out, and were jumping up and down clapping at the sight of the collapse of the twin towers. She called the police, and it was revealed that they were all Israelis. They were taken into custody, held in jail for a while, and then deported back to their country, without anything else being disclosed.

I will try and do a search on the inernet to see if I could retrieve the article.

I looked at that tbr article you posted Garry. Eeeeeeek!

And here's a nice complement to the George Washington quote you posted. This is from J. S. Mill, a great proponent of liberty: "Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives."

Crystal, I do the same thing: start with the last and go back when I'm in a rush - ehhh I dunno about 9/11 exactly, but one thing's for sure, we could have stopped it. Cheney gave the order to hold back. The other thing is the demolition-nature of the towers' fall. Anyway there are tons of good websites that go into the scientific impossibility of jet fuel alone bringing down the towers that explain all this stuff in horrific detail much better than I could, but suffice it to say I sure as heck don't believe the NIST story.

I guess you guys heard about the nuke-tipped cruise missiles that were being transported from the Midwest to Barksdale AFB before they got discovered? HMMMMMMM

Gilgamesh

Carol, you're really on to something re state's reclaiming their own decisionmaking power. I think this is key antidote to the gangrenous rot on the federal level, and as gwpinhead "races to the finish line" (as he put it when describing plans for Iran before his term ends).
Governors are kinda pissed about having their National Guard stolen from them since Katrina (an opportunity snatched by bush)and resisted the strongarming to carry the cost and loss of civil liberties with the 5-08 National ID plan, despite Skeletor's slimey threat to hold back on other state funding. Same with environmental efforts being taken up state by state, same with giving rights to gay people state by state.

Yes, I've noticed this too Carol...very encouraging response to federal bullying toward fascism. We have the good fortune to have Bill Ritter as gov in CO after the frightening influence of Bill Owens (latex-faced fundi lunatic).

Crystal,
How long have you been reading/posting on this site?
Some of these things ( re:Garry's post) have been discussed here before...........and many of those posters have moved on.
I think I may have even read the original article ( about the NJ women & the Israelis ) in the Times itself. At the time a local person subscribed, and it passed into my hands as I was creating a file.)
Can't buy theTimes this far north normally!
Does anyone remember the astrologer that sent warnings to the CIA, & White House warning of a catastrophic event in NY City.
she missed a bit; dated it for th 15th, but if they had paid attention, ( and desired to be prepared, ) they would have been prepared on the 11th. Beers Rand, corresponded with her several times for more info, and then left the CIA because it was allowed to happen. I lost that bookmark when my 56k modem died and the used one I bought never connected me to the internet. Then I bought the used iBook for the higher operating system because Microsoft shut me out of participating with the OS 9 on the MAc.
Yes I got filtered out this morning! ( just talking about gardening & goldfish........ Got a page explaining that I had been and where I could go to remedy it. ( I chose off line) I may be on the "no post list" ?????? thru Verizon or something?
Hi patb welcome back to this sizzling site!
QOP

QOP, thanks for the welcome, gal. Just couldn't think straight in the gnat swarm and had to regroup somewhat. Just amazing how the human mind operates(forever the student)...the collective smells like cabbage cooking. Ha! HA!

Wow @ Garry's url. The Atta stuff especially corroborates well with the Mad Cow's reporting:

http://www.madcowprod.com/ lol I bet you've all read that stuff already.

Carol, yes I'm early Pluto in Libra!

QOP, I want to move to Maine. Love the Nor'east but alas fiscal realities. Have a client who lives there (talked him outa killing himself last week but thanks to his basic admitted chickenness he just needed a friend and a spot of hope) who is in the school system there said he could get me a j.o.b. there. My son wants to as well. Nice thot anyway, huh?
Have to content myself with the fine honeysuckle vine (the sweetness will knock you overboard kind)I recall so well from Larchmont Harbor as a kid.
As the world goes nuts we could all use a bit of
the natural world that knows nothing of doublethink.

Oh. What I meant about the honeysuckle, I managed to root a gorgeous bit of it in june...the sweet sweet yellow and white kind.

And Howard Dean's 50 state strategy will be crucial towards this national movement. While the DLC resists making th e Democrats a truly national party (because states have other priorities), the states welcome making themselves more progressive.

Forgotten is that we need local progressive government where the rubber meets the road. Grants to states are now block grants which means states make the rules for transfer payments. You need progressive, compassionate government to make those rules.

That's IT Carol. I swear after hearing Pelosi's true arrogance and Reid's unmasking, what else is there but states 'seceding' from the goddam gov't. like distancing from a release of methane at a crowded party. They've all gone quite mad.
So why don't we all just shove-off from them.

My search turned up this article and others that I haven't yet read. Will be back later to answer QOP's questions. I'm posting in between running around.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/fiveisraelis.html

QOP, do you have any more information on this astrologer that Rand consulted?

Here's another link. Draw your own conclusions.

http://www.antiwar.com/justin/j030802.html

Crystal, we know. We know. We know. 9-11. Now, let's turn toward our future and what we can actually do about it.
California just saved itself from electoral theft and now contends with voting machine bait 'n' switch thuggery. Gore Vidal doesn't think we'll have another honest election by the people ever again (let's hope he's wrong).
We have to live while we're alive and push back.

Okay, this should be enough. Dom't want to use up all of Sally's bandwith. Will be back after dinner.

http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=68985

While we are hurtling towards America's Pluto return, we can remember that the Founding Fathers never meant for us to have even a standing army, let alone hired professionals from private companies. One suggestion for Constitution 2.0 would be for us to adopt the Swiss system of training everybody for military duties. Then if America needed a military larger than its defense or current obligations, it would have to vote to send people to go fight. And the voters who vote on the people would have to consider whether or not they wanted to go. At the very least people would have to contemplate what it meant to go.

And we would have the advantage of people being able to be their own National Guard from time to time.

Sounds good, but Switzerland's a)a tiny country b) a neutral country and c) a country interested in preserving peace and not contaminating the rest of the world with their 'trip'.

The u.s. has an appointment with its own destruction and banding together in small communities which are part of states faced with choiceless choices. Who'll be first to pull of secession, Vermont or Maine?

Gilgamesh,
It is probably back in the archives here. It was posted, back in 2002, 03? One of the early threads has been hacked, don't let that discourage you.Under which writer's article I don't remember!
When Sally returns, maybe she can remember? wv, bhakti, Shylurker,?
G, Why don't you go back and read them with all the comments. It would be a great learning process!
BTW my moon is 23 scorp in the 6th house in mutual reception & trine pluto (29 cancer)in the 2nd, and trine jupiter in 28 pisces in the 10th. All those plantets are sextile my earth trine; sun, uranus taurus 12th, , mars cap 8th, meptune virgo 4th.
To keep me from getting too lazy with all those trines, that pluto is widely opposed to mars, sq. my aries saturn 11th
The last 2 pisces moons have clearly laid out my artistic direction.......for the rest of my life!~
WIsh you could come to Maine patb!
I helped a 12 year old friend with a school assignment some years ago. She had to research the most benevolent area of the USA to live in. We settled on NJ and she got an A but since then the maleovolant influx of shopping centers, development homes has kicked that further north!
QOP

patb, I read something this morning that the right wing party has taken over Switzerlansd too, at the moment!
Sorry for no post......was it raw story,? Counterpunch?smirking chimp? places visited recently!\
QOP

QOP that's quite a grand trine. I also have a Jupiter/Pluto trine, except with Neptune sextiling, Jupiter conj Asc. I will definitely go back through the archives as you suggest. Lot of water and earth there you have!

Are you also into relocation astrology? I am crazy about relocation and mundane astrology, and I really want to meet March and McEvers before they go shuffling off somewhere else (or have they already). I am especially interested in mundane country astrology as well as astrocartography. I currently live in a place where my natal Mars/Uranus opposition is smack on the relocated MC/IC axis respectively, and my natal Jupiter on Asc is relocated to Desc. I've lost count of the places I've lived in here! I've also had some issues with automobiles...

Oh, I did see the article about the right-wing party in Switz with Blocher taking a seat. I'm not sure what to think about the whole issue yet.

Oh, re: Hillary, check out http://www.guardian.co.uk/america and the article about her vowing to review Bush's power grab and "rollback" his increasing the powers of the executive branch.

Gilgamesh

QOP, to address your question, I believe I started posting here in 2002, but then I stopped for a while just before, during, and after my traumatic move to Florida in December of '03. I'm not sure when I came back, but I stop reading/posting whenever the rat race or whatever else takes over my life.

Wonder who was the buyer of this unusual artifact?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20071023/lf_afp/lifestylebritainauctionartreligionislam

Lunaoscura, thanks for the links to the hogueprophecy website. It was a very interesting read. You know, I read all these prophecies out of sheer curiosity, but I have enough of a challenge just trying to live in the present, without having to worry about the future! Most likely Armageddon will not happen in my lifetime, so I don't worry about it too much. Truth be known, I don't think anyone really knows exactly when it will actually happen. Remember all those dire predictions of an atomic attack by Russia (was it in the 70s or 80s?) Well, I was never convinced. I always thought it was mostly hype to stir up more hatred for the commies.

QOP, Switzerland too, wouldn't you know it. Well, as the mountains melt and the seas rise I wonder how pleased all these space-hogs in china, the u.s., england, etc. will be with their "bounty".

Hey, your moon sits on my scorpio jupiterand your jupiter sits atop Ceres in pisces in my chart. I've got air trines packed into 3rd decanates water ones too but won't bore you with details. Hey, my shadow material says "Hi!" every time I look in the mirror. He He He.

Have a scorpio dad born 2 days after the russian revolution. (bush fan, anything repug/crazymaking), still drives with a rum and coke between his legs, wearing his brown leather bomber jacket replaced every 20 years since WWII.

I enjoy scorpio energy which is luscious and interesting, it's just the Hillarys & Condosleezas with those dank jealous conflicts from leo givin' em a bad name. I could listen to Joe Biden and Jeff Goldblum all day.

Sally, "We have been over-drugged, over lied to, over marketed, over-done." - no doubt. Over it!

Woo woo Sun in Scorpio is here! Hopefully it will stop being 80' here in DC in the middle of freakin autumn.

Self-righteous Warmongers Phony Patriots

By Greg James

You have to wonder if the whole conservative movement in the U.S. is living in a weird alternate reality in which the only thing that matters is what you say, and facts, consistency and honor mean nothing.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18607.htm

I was just directed to Michael Wolfstar's article about Murat vs. Madeleine (link posted by Stan), and I can say with 99.9% certainty that Murat is a paedophile, and is responsible for Madeleine's disappearance. A couple years, maybe 3 ago, I posted a message here in which I stated that from my observations, a retrograde Mars in the natal chart is the most telling sign of a paedophile, and usually it is in square or opp. to the natal Venus. I looked up the ephemeris for the birthdate that Wolfstar gave for Murat, and sure enough he had a retrograde Mars, although the square to Venus would be too wide to be considered as an additional factor in this case. Interestingly, Wolfstar did not mention the fact that Mars is Rx in Murat's natal chart, or that it is a factor in him being the most likely suspect.

Gilgamesh, really thank you for the time it took to post those protest pix, how else we gonna know! More more from the front lines skipper.

Keeping watch in the crow's nest the obvious is reaching most people stuck here. Some sooner, some later or too late. The too lates awake when those fundamental things disappear each in their own way. For me today it's comparing notes with all the school closures in every state (consolidating they call it) the absence of our National Guard, social safety net gov't offices in washington dealing with new managers who are really Trojan Horses throwing people out who've been there 25 years or more.
The water shall rise to each and every butt not part of the squandering gluttonous 3%.

Crystal, please please be careful with cookbook ideas about people. It just isn't true that mars retro makes a perv. I often see those aspects you describe in the charts of 'middle kids', the ones who can't express their desire nature either because of one too many loud Alphas in the phamily or get their hand smacked reaching for the salt.
Some are mild, some are ragers, some mars by progression can't carry on quite as before. Please always look for deeper issues and aspects.
Just ain't fair to 'nail' anyone with such conclusions and see instead the core causes that may make one person a bit twisted and another an asset to the world and themselves.

Re-reading l984 at bedtime (first read at 17), almost done, to be followed by a Paul Levy chaser (this cutting edge guy has so-Looshuns) "The Madness of GWBush".
My personal quandry: why these wonderful peaceful people who practice like mad in Tibet and Burma get ground into the mud for generations upon generations? Someone's got to get toe-to-toe with swine doing it, like shouting lock'n'load in unison. Yeah. That's my quest at the moment.

Re - Does anyone remember the astrologer that sent warnings to the CIA, & White House warning of a catastrophic event in NY City.

Dunno about "sent warnings to the CIA, & White House" but this sounds very much like Robert Zoller
There's a wee bit here about him and others
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/astrology-articles/911-prophecy-prediction.php

Stan, It was a woman and she may have posted the comment herself, with a link to a website,showing the series of letters between her and RAND BEERS ( sorry I got that reversed)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rand_Beers

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A62941-2003Jun15?language=printer
Hopefully Gigamesh will find it in h=is jurney through the archives.............
QOP

Jeffery Toobin just revealed to CHarlie Reese that Clinton will appoint Obama to the Supreme COurt!

Is Toobin god? Is Clinton even nominated?
Now she believes Murdoch's manipulations. Oh yes. As long as she benefits. But she hasn't been nominated because we're fighting back at this MSM-generated illusion/halucination.

And would Obama even get nominated, let alone confirmed? And why put this out now, when Obama is still vying for the nomination himself? Even if he loses, he may have other ideas for himself.

Hillary folks are definitely trying to discourage Draft Gore people by saying it's divisive and a waste of time and money. They are saying we are divisive and that we just hate Hillary. Can one love Gore and think Hillary is a substitute without hating her? Are they that insecure about the movement that they must bash people? If Gore doesn't enter, what harm have we done?

http://carolduhart.blogspot.com/2007/10/it-never-rains-in-california.html

My California Post-I'm going through another writing storm tonight.

Everyone is 'electable' despite what the MSM has been coaxing you to believe. It is SUGGESTION, nothing more. Very powerful, innit.

Note south node activity for H election day '08:
transit mars conj south node,
transit mars conj natal mercury square natal sat.,
transit south node conj pluto,
(pluto and mars rule her sun)
transit saturn oppose transit uranus conj moon,

This is just a sketch. Of course there's some easier indicators, but from where I stand these few (there are more) are pretty tough to overcome.
Bob's virgo rising 14-degrees is interesting for sure..good to get a few more asc adjusters on it to collaborate.

NOBEL ECONOMICS PRIZE
The Price Is Usually Wrong!
by Lyndon H. LaRouche, Jr.
http://www.larouchepub.com/lar/2007/3442price_usually_wrong.html

While the snow piles up to record heights in the Swiss Alps, "global warming" hoaxster Al Gore is not the only fellow enjoying the receipt of a Nobel prize for fraud. Just at the moment that the present world monetary system has entered its terminal-collapse phase, three relevant, intellectually culpable U.S. academics, the University of Minnesota's Leonid Hurwicz, Princeton's Eric S. Maskin, and Chicago University's Roger B. Myerson, have been awarded this year's prize "for having laid the foundations of mechanism design theory." The Nobel committee's folly in this case illustrates the nature of some of the most important causes for the currently ongoing, chain-reaction-like, physical disintegration of the world's present monetary-financial system...
Unfortunately, as I have already emphasized here, the current Nobel trio's celebrity is not merely an academic matter. This current, scandalous Nobel award is all too relevant to the kind of policy-shaping which had already plunged the world monetary-financial system into its presently onrushing, terminal phase of self-disintegration. (The real world, outside monetary dogmas, could survive this, provided we now immediately dump the present, Liberal monetarist—"free trade" system itself.) Without the widespread toleration for the specific type of clinical insanity echoed by the current award, the onrushing general collapse of the world's present monetary-financial system, would never have been permitted to reach its present breakdown-phase. The world economy today needs the designs of Myron Scholes and of Hurwicz, Maskin, and Myerson, about as much as a sufferer from the common cold needs the curative powers of a heavy dose of cyanide...

Hello everyone. I was just wondering if anyone had the birthdate/chart for US Navy Seal Michael Murphy, who was awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor earlier this week? He was killed while saving his SEAL team in Afghanistan a few years ago. Would love to see what his chart looks like and get any feedback from the AW regulars on it. Thanks!

Hello everyone. I was just wondering if anyone had the birthdate/chart for US Navy Seal Michael Murphy, who was awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor earlier this week? He was killed while saving his SEAL team in Afghanistan a few years ago. Would love to see what his chart looks like and get any feedback from the AW regulars on it. Thanks!

Is this what you were seeking, QOP?
http://anastrologersperspective.com/articles/terror.php4

Another Supermoon this week!

Even now the Moon is looking big and beautiful in anticipation of the upcoming Full Moon at perigee (closest to earth) which brings about a Supermoon (® Richard Nolle).

This upcoming lunation is not only big, it's a powerhouse of lunar aspects. The Full Moon takes place on October 26 at 0:52 am Eastern time and at 2 degrees Taurus (with the Sun in Scorpio). The Full Moon, when the Sun and Moon are in opposition, is a powerful time of light that bears the potential to open our consciousness. This Full Moon forms a Mystic Rectangle to the North and South Nodes of the Moon, representing our evolutionary direction from past (South) to future (North). We are in alignment now to achieve something very important in our personal destiny and destiny as humans, and the addition of Saturn in sextile to the Sun and trine the Moon helps to ground the process into physical form.

On a personal level this is a time to set your intention very clearly so that the universe can assist in manifestation. On a global level we are being realigned as a species as this Full Moon occurs virtually at the very minute that Pluto makes its conjunction to the Galactic Center). The conjunction of Pluto to the Galactic Center (center of our Milky Way galaxy) is not one big event that we will easily identify, but a core shift in the direction of the planet. (For more information on this event and a historical analysis see my earlier article). The timing of this galactic event coinciding with the Full Moon is a powerful symbol that further emphasizes the importance of this full moon.

Posted by Lynn Hayes :: 6:12 PM :: Comments | Trackback

http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/10/24/dodd-leads-obama-and-clinton-follow-sort-of/

Dodd Leads; Obama and Clinton Follow, Sort Of

There’s a huge difference between people who are actual leaders and who happen to want to be President, and people who want to be President so they can be the leader. We’re seeing that difference right now in the debate over whether the FISA bill will award retroactive immunity to the telecoms for their complicity in the Bush Administration’s illegal spying programs.

More…

Oooh, Super Moon, huh, wv? Maybe Mz Morgana, Moon Maven, will enlighten us more. Maybe?

(Hope this doesn't post twice. I got a server error first time.)

Just thought you'd enjoy something really good for a change. It's small, but promising.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/1024/p13s01-lire.html?s=wklyeth

American youths bridge religious divides

Teens in a Boston suburb lead the way in building relationships among religious faiths in their community through Interfaith Action, a program that has captured attention abroad.

Larouche ????? Ewwwwww..........Got Fascism?

http://www.publiceye.org/larouche/nclc1.html

Thanks for that link Shy, forgot about that site.

NOW ON C-SPAN3 http://www.c-span.org/

FOREIGN AFFAIRS

U.S. Middle East Policy

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice testifies at a House Foreign Affairs Committee hearing on U.S. Policy in the Middle East.

Chair- man Tom Lantos (D-CA) is expected to focus on the U.S. role in regional security, as well as Iran's nuclear program and the upcoming Israeli-Palestinian peace negotiations.

NOW ON C-SPAN3 http://www.c-span.org/

BINGO SHylurker....She be the one I was remembering! Carrie Lever. The format of her website is what I remember, although the references to Rand Beers are gone....but if you check him out on the links I posted at 4:30 AM Oct 30, you will see he is still involved in a Govt. position.
QOP

patb, I stand by my post, and I would like to widen my research in this area. Much information about a person's sexual nature can be gleaned from the planets Venus, and Mars. When either one of these is retrograde, it signifies a particular type of condition that exists in the native's psyche; it will also have a different connotation depending on whether the native is male or female. Troubled boys grow into wounded men.
However, this is not the forum for this type of discussion, since it's a political astrology website. I apologize for posting it, and respectfully wish to withdraw the post.

Well then,
That would make everyone who was born every two years for the approximately one month period of Mars retrograde pattern having "issues". I can't buy that.

Just wanted to say that I'm reading this site again after a hiatus. I had gone over to Claudia's site to see if she had anything new then over here to see that she had been posting (yay!).

There was a lot more astro-cogent posting this round of reading. When the posts get to be too bitter/biting/sniping/griping--I can't take those energies. Sorry--I do like the more intellectual astrology discussions (imho preferable to the "my personal planet positions" posts). So thank you to all the posters raising the bar. :-)

http://commonsense.ourfuture.org/art_hissy_fit?tx=3

The Art Of The Hissy Fit

I first noticed the right's successful use of phony sanctimony and faux outrage back in the 90's when well-known conservative players like Gingrich and Livingston pretended to be offended at the president's extramarital affair and were repeatedly and tiresomely "upset" about fund-raising practices they all practiced themselves. The idea of these powerful and corrupt adulterers being personally upset by White House coffees and naughty sexual behavior was laughable.

But they did it, oh how they did it, and it often succeeded in changing the dialogue and tittilating the media into a frenzy of breathless tabloid coverage.

In fact, they became so good at the tactic that they now rely on it as their first choice to control the political dialogue when it becomes uncomfortable and put the Democrats on the defensive whenever they are winning the day. Perhaps the best example during the Bush years would be the completely cynical and over-the-top reaction to Senator Paul Wellstone's memorial rally in 2002 in the last couple of weeks leading up to the election.

More....

Crystal, drop me a note I'd be happy to contribute to your research on people with natal Mars retrograde in Scorpio. A.E Waite's interpretation infuriated me in the 60's, rather the opposite of your view. Mine is 2 Scorpio Rx. 8th house cusp.

Pat C,
Hissy fits do work! I just delivered a few to the Senate Labor,Health, Ed. Pension Committee members
I received my glossy full color, 117 page Medicare
booklet for 2008, along with a another packet from Community CareRXC. I took it into the bathroom, the damn thing weighs 1 lb! As I recall I had one last year too when they refused to pay the $149.00 bill from my Dr. for a routine GYN /PAP, something I have gotten every year of adulthood!
Except for Grassley's intern who hung upon me they all listened.
The number is toll free It's about all I can do!
QOP

.

I don't agree that it can be found through just seeing the aspects of Venus and Mars Retro. Wouldn't something in a chart along the lines of being sexually abused as a child (Pluto's harsh aspects) along with many other factors be more telling about a person? It really has to depend on one's soul evolution too. Read Jeffrey Wolf Green's books and articles.

Sorry, here's a link to Jeffrey Green's books and articles

http://astrologybykimmarie.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=JWG&Category_Code=BOOK

A long time ago, Claudia Dikinis did an excellent analysis of Smirky and Turkey. It still applies. And now look at this: Turkey just might move too close to "our" oil, so Smirky has volunteered to bomb the Kurds. Tell me this isn't so!
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22636940-663,00.html

http://www.spokesmanreview.com/breaking/story.asp?ID=12036
Gonzales could be prosecuted, McKay says

By Bill Morlin
Staff writer
October 20, 2007

The U.S. Inspector General may recommend criminal prosecution of departed Attorney General Alberto Gonzales at the conclusion of an investigation, possibly as early as next month, the fired former U.S. attorney for Western Washington told a Spokane audience Friday.

QOP

Pat QOP, a well timed and placed hissy fit is very effective when no one is listening for sure! These people use it as a hammer to abuse. As^*(_&!

QOP, ok, I just got done scouring the archives for the reference to Carrie Lever you mentioned; I thought I just skipped over something. What a Merc Rx activity! Thanks for the link, shylurker.

Carol nice post on your website re: California's transits! I love that stuff! I bought this excellent book on the astrology of the states a while back but I lost it - that's when I noticed that California is the lone Virgo out of all 50 states, as well as preponderance of Scorpio states due to many Western territories becoming states at about the same time. She also assigned regions, not necessarily based on the state boundaries to typify the type of region it is, and boy is it spot on (I've moved around a LOT and pay attention to these subtleties) E.g the Northeast Corrider from DC to NYC is the Aries region (everyone is so rude, competitive and me me me here! ewww! back to the West Coast or Midwest, please!), while staid New England is Capricorn, most of the family-values fertile farmland of the Deep South is Cancer, the riverboat gambling free-wheeling nature of the MS valley is Sag, most of Southern and Mid California is Leo, etc etc. Anyone know what I'm talking about? That book is genius!

Anyway, that transiting Uranus opposing Cali's natal Sun is quite a coincidence with the fires currently going on; I agree that there will probably be many more surprises for "Kullifawnia".

Oh, going through the archives I noticed Sally uses the Sibley chart with Sag rising for the USA chart which I think is the correct one. I could never understand why some astrologers insist on the Gemini rising chart when the National Archives describes quite clearly the late afternoon signing of the Declaration. Another reason for sticking to some kind of reasonable standard for the "birth" of any kind of chart, or just use a frickin noon chart and not muddy the waters with wasted speculation.

Re; Mars Rx I have this natally in Aries if anyone wants to pick my brain about it. It's in the 3rd house opposing chart ruler Uranus in the 9th as well as contraparallel it. It's the tightest aspect in my chart.

lol @ "Smirky" and "Turkey" comment!

QOP as a Moon in Sco native, do you find that you have sort of a "homing instinct" for others with Moon in Sco? I've been able to confirm this for a few people, but otherwise it's just barely empirical. I sense it almost immediately upon meeting, and then I do everything I can to weasel the birth data out of them without disclosing why (a fun challenge in and of itself) and the ones I've been able to get birthtime for, or it's safe to say that it's in Sco because even in a noon chart there's no way it'd be in adjoining signs, sure enough my intuition is right there. I can't describe it except like a certain intensity.

My ex-wife is a Gemini with Moon in Scorpio, and yes her Sun opposed mine and her moon was almost exactly conjunct mine.

QOP look at this photo of a Code Pink activist getting into Condi Rice's face with fake blood on her hands, from that link you posted! Wow that is a powerful image! Welcome to taking back America, Condi!

http://www.spokesmanreview.com/media/photos/20071024_blood.jpg

Forgive me all in advance for feeding the troll.
Michael, if you truly believe that the fight in Iraq is a just cause, why not volunteer. The army and especially the reserves could use a breather by you and others like you by joining up! They are stretched thin, many doing double tours (like my cousin). My grandfather believed in the fight against fascism and the Nazis and VOLUNTEERED. They didn't have to draft him and tens of thousands of others like him. They put their lives on the line for their beliefs and conscience. Why don't you. No response necessary. I am going back into lurk mode after being absent for so long.

(sarcasm on)
Is it just me or does it seem that troll feeders are not the regular people here? How strange that people who never post anything should suddenly all post something, and it just happens to be for the troll.
(sarcasm off)

Indeedy Gilgamesh.......we had a scorpio moon club in Phila.! My ex was virgo, scorpio moon exactly conjunct mine,one of my closest girlfriends was virgo, scorpio moon. We used to chart event in Nov & May t the full moons then and were usually rewarded with some astounding happening.My closest cousin is also a taurus with scorpio moon....pair of terors the 2 of us! Although her Mother being a scorpio sun could handle it.
Maine and FLorida are both Pisces states..I believe the only 2.
QOP

Gilgamesh, any chance you were born 11-23-73?

Re: Carrie Lever, her points are interesting but it seems that the time period she is referring to is Mar 11-17, 2001. She also makes it clear she didn't think at that time that anything would come to fruition again after Mar until Oct 2001, if I read that correctly. *shrug* way too vague to take seriously. I like what she has to say, though.

Looking at the charts for that time period in Mar 2001, I could see how the conjuncted trine of Venus and the Mars/Pluto conjunction plus the Sun/Saturn sextile could lean one to think Bad Things are afoot, but those aren't exactly rare configs. I must be missing something?

Anyway, all this talk about Mars Rx and pervs has gotten me thinking about former FL Rep. Mark Foley, who's my favorite recent Irony Cross award winner. I'm sure you all know about him, but he's the guy who last year got in a scandal about propositioning underage Congressional pages, which blew open a wider scandal that started hinting at a huge prostitution ring of underage boys here in DC. What makes his case special is that he was the Chairman of some political committee to protect children against sexual abuse, similar to the hypocrisy of Patrick Swayze's character in the movie "Donnie Darko".

Mark Foley, born Sept 8 1954

sources:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Foley
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Mark_Foley
http://uspolitics.about.com/od/candidatescongress/a/foley_3.htm
http://independentsources.com/2006/10/08/mark-folely-solar-eclipse/
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=116188031

Well, the first thing that stands out is that Mars is not retrograde :D and sextiles Saturn. Venus is in Scorpio in wide applying conjunct to Saturn. I look primarily to aspects for quantitative, i.e. measurable effects, while looking at sign position for more qualitative ones. With Saturn limiting the expression of Mars comfortably placed in Capricorn and Venus' direct, intense and sometimes jealous and possessive expression in Scorpio, I'd say there's a lot of pent-up energy that gets restrained and redirected into career and power ambitions. A total lack of fire sign placements (unless asc is in fire, I dunno, I'm thinking it's in air) and a strong earth and water signature shows a passive and feminine approach to life and he's probably a nice, considerate and hard-working guy that means well but due to his Venus in Scorpio (in a man's chart, the type of partner he seeks, imo), he seeks masculine, aggressive and power-seeking types - I imagine Congressional pages are not lacking in at least the power-seeking department.

I'm of the opinion that astrology should be considered alongside genetics and childhood psychology, all meshing together to form a complete picture. Say for example you have an eskimo with Tom Brady's undoubtedly amazing astrological athletic signature (which would be good for pretty much any athletic sport) - eskimos are pretty short, overall, and probably wouldn't cut it in basketball no matter how aggressive and competitive they are, regardless of fast reflexes, great coordination etc. - they simply don't have the physical height requirements necessary, nor the cultural indoctrination that would inspire them to be good at it. Not to say that it wouldn't be impossible, but the chances are much slimmer. The greater picture must be considered.

So, back to Foley - a lot of this picture is missing since I can't find a birthtime, but what stands out is a multiple-planet aspect involving a t-square of Jupiter/Uranus eclipse (conjunction + parallel), Neptune and Chiron, and possibly the moon. This indicates to me a very popular person with a lot of fame and a lot of charisma.

So what caused his downfall? Is he really a pervert, or is our society just so perverted about its puritanical pretentions that it causes such other perversions to come out? Maybe it's because he got molested as a youth by Catholic priests? For sure, that scandal got hushed up pretty fast, but enough leaked out onto the Internet for a lifetime of sordid investigation into the psychology of power.

Lawrence Lessig is another example of a prominent person who recently was discovered to have been molested as a youth by priests (by his own admission). Taking a quick glance at his chart, his Mars is not retrograde either; not to imply that he could be some kind of sexual pervert or anything.

Ok ok I'll shut up now :)

Gilgamesh

patb, yup!

I am not saying that every man who has Mars retrograde in his natal chart is a paedophile, but I am saying that the few paedophiles' charts that I have looked at, all have that common denominator; and most of what I have read about Mars retrograde (mainly in Eastern astrology) seems to bear this out. So what gives? My research on this matter is incomplete. Venus retrograde in a man's chart has a different signification, which I am not going to discuss here, because of the sensitivity of the subject, and because research on that is also incomplete because of the difficulty in obtaining research data.

Gilgamesh, the pedophiles I am referring to were all of the hetereosexual persuasion, as opposed to the homosexual persuasion. Perhaps this might account for the difference?
Ok, I'll shut up now.

Another write-up on tonight's full moon:

http://starsoverwashington.blogspot.com/2007/10/taurus-full-moon-oct-26-2007.html

Sorry, tomorrow night's full moon :D

Hey, i'm # 400!!!!

Lunaoscura, things that make you go hmmmmmm?

Hi Crystal got my mystics mixed up. The astrologer was Max Heindel, Message of the Stars. There is an online PDF of the book

http://www.hermetics.org/pdf/messageofthestarsmaxheindel.pdf

On mars retrograde: I have always seen that placement as indicating introversion especially if mercury is retrograde as well.
Seems too me that the mars rx as a sign of the pedophile would have more to do with the consciousness of the individual. The willingness to be conscious and responsible would dissolve much of the energy needed to manipulate and harm others especially those younger and more vulnerable.

Hello, All, for what it's worth, here are a few observations from my (admittedly limited) research--

Natives with no planets in air signs have difficulty experiencing objectivity.

Natives with no planets in earth signs usually/often do not own their homes (unless they inherited or there was some compelling reason to buy--the Clintons come to mind.)

Natives with no planets in water signs are markedly arid in the expression of their emotions.

Would be interested in your experiences.

The Crawford Ranch is the first and only home GWB and Laura ever owned.bjt

I have found that to be the case Barbara particularly regarding no air and buying houses, but Bill Clinton does have the Moon in Taurus so that gives them a little earth.

The best example that has stuck in my mind for element distribution is Kurt Cobain, who has all personal planets in water. Only Uranus and Pluto are in earth.

Crystal, good point. How about R. Kelly?

Gilgamesh