Sally absolutely fantastic article. Fractals. Cosmic kaleidoscope, what turn and a new pattern emerges. Tum in bee's. I love it.

I just love it, Cap'n Sally! You've been referring to these changes for a long time now and it seems with each new article you share with us, as we get nearer and nearer to the 2012 and beyond period, your focus becomes ever sharper. Fractals indeed! Brilliant article and thank you ever so much--as always. Now, where'd I put that insect spray . . . . .

(PS to Crystal. I posted a link to the picture you wanted back on the previous thread.)

Hi Sally and thanks. The capitalism which supports our socialism is disappearing. TPTB are trying to reorganize with NAFTA, CAFTA, and Uffda! Time to get sturdy shoes, a warm coat, and an artist's smock to paint the future.

If Congress wants to set prices, let them reduce the price of duct-tape, chewing gum, and other necessities we need to get through this time. We'll need two pots: One to put a chicken in and one to piss in.......I dunno, maybe the Guiness is still working.

Evil sidenote: A buddy of mine suggested, when we leave Iraq, we leave Blackwater there. Gunless! Not sure I'm that evil, but it did add a WEG to our Guiness at last nights conversation.

The universe is creative. It is expanding. So should we.........Timmy J

Wonderful, Sally, and fair warning--this post is a me, me, me take--as an Aquarius (free-spirited but fixed nonetheless), Taurus rising, and Moon in cardinal but rigid Capricorn--I dread change!

An astrologer annoyed me so much some years ago when she said, "You like to get in a comfortable rut and stay there." I thought, "If she only knew how many times I had to start over." But I forgot that all those "start-overs" were because I had been dynamited (unwillingly) out of my comfortable rut. (Natal Uranus in Taurus square near MC Sun.)

Well, I have to acknowledge that things are so bad now that big change (and dynamite) are not to be dreaded.

Hi Sally, thanks for the article. I'll have to think about "fractals", LOL. I'm glad that you weighed in on the MoveOn astrology, because they are a big player no doubt about it. Also, with all due respect I think you might have meant "Jupiter square Uranus" instead of opposed, if you were talking about transits. If you were, I think this might explain the fall in oil and gas prices on the world markets. I've been reading along some other financial astrology stuff, and it seems that when Jupiter arrives on the scene, supply goes up and reduces cost. So we'll see right?
There's been a lot made about third political parties in the US, but I honestly don't think that will ever happen in any major way. We're too bi-polar for that in my opinion. But from what I've been able to gather, and this includes both you and Mumin's writings, is that both parties seem to be headed for a major restructuring of some sort. Uranus right now is sitting right on the Republican party's Neptune, and I believe the chart Mu uses has a Scorpio rising. So that puts Neptune right in the 4th House, "the base", religious Right and so on. Major shakeup. And I think the Democratic party has something along the same lines too, Neptune moving to square its Taurus Sun next year, right? So yeah, both parties headed for a time of transition in some way.

I wanted to know what you thought of the timeline Mumin gives of the possible splitup between MoveOn and the Democratic leadership? Do you think this will happen and if so or not, why in your astrological opinion? Thanks.

Sally, one other thing, if I may. You mentioned the Swiftboat attack ads used on Sen. John Kerry when he was running back in 2004 and suggested that the General Betray Us ad by MoveOn were in the same boat. I think a strong argument could be made that they are not, because Kerry was running for a public office and was no longer in the military, whereas General Petraeus is indeed in the military and not seeking public office. So I think the context of the ads are totally different.

That said however, one could also say that Petraeus was only being a mouthpiece for the Bush White House. Without a doubt, I am sure you and many others here agree with that view. I personally don't agree, but what I wished MoveOn would have done is used the ad space in the New York Times to specifically layout why they disagreed with him for all the country to see. Don't you think that would have made for a stronger case all around, instead or merely lobbing a "spitball"? Thanks.

Good point, Michael, and I have read many bloggers stating that a more measured response would have been better. BUT...I think that if MoveON had not been completely "in your face" then the ad would have been ignored.

Think about if you were in the room when Dubya said, "Oh now we're going to invade Iraq because some Saudis attacked us." A reasoned response would have been totally ignored.

The correct thing to do would be to throw some chairs through the glass doors.

Sometimes you just got to be outrageous.

I love fractals! When I look at clouds and other supposedly unmeasurable things I think of fractals!

sally, thank you so much for the new article and for expressing some of what is going on inside of me.
I screamed with rage over on Starlight News after learning that the Supreme Court threw out the case of the man who was tortured by the CIA and then just dumped on a hill in Italy. This is the day when once again in my life I have turned my back utterly on the Establishemnt. I am 60 now and I have been bending over backwards to be balanced but now with this decision and Nancy Pelosi serenely gliding about announcing "impeachment is off the table" with the Congress giving Bush everything he asks for even though we, the people, are screaming our objections I am turning away.
I have always found MoveOn to be quite middle of the road. Frankly I am amazed at all the hoopla about their ad. Since when are generals saints or something and why are they more sacred than say teachers or nurses? Especially generals today who plan the firey deaths of children and mothers and old people? Petraeus is a leader of an invasion and occupation of an unarmed country. for good gods sake he is not deserving of our respect. Knowing what he does about what we are doing and why he could only deserve respect if he stood up and told the truth. Please I am sick of all this carefulness all this tip-toeing around. I am pissed and I want to join with others who feel as I do and start to do something about this even if the sacred military does turn on us and cause us to dematerialize.
This is disgusting-I mean today the decisions and the news.
Michael-gossip is that Petraeus wants to play Eisenhower.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071009/ts_nm/greenhouse_australia_dc

Greenhouse gas emissions hit danger mark

[snip]
Tim Flannery, a world recognized climate change scientist and Australian of the Year in 2007, said a U.N. international climate change report due in November will show that greenhouse gases have already reached a dangerous level.

Flannery said the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) report will show that greenhouse gas in the atmosphere in mid-2005 had reached about 455 parts per million of carbon dioxide equivalent -- a level not expected for another 10 years.

"We thought we'd be at that threshold within about a decade," Flannery told Australian television late on Monday.

"We thought we had that much time. But the new data indicates that in about mid-2005 we crossed that threshold," he said.

"What the report establishes is that the amount of greenhouse gas in the atmosphere is already above the threshold that could potentially cause dangerous climate change."

more...

Thanks Michael for pointing out my type (square vs. opposition) and I've corrected it. Actually I put both ads "Swift Boat" and Betray Us" in the same catagory with Swift Boat being the worst and most dishonest. I also put Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter and several others as horrific examples of supporting this country and go much further than "Betray Us" That said, it's still free speech and either we believe in that or we don't. The resolution condemming Move On was ridiculous.

I'm not sure there will be a viable 3rd and/or 4th party, but I am sure there is a major change coming particularly if the NAU becomes a true reality, then there could be 3 Presidents of the Union and major parties representing Mexico and Canada so all three countries have an input into each government. The GOP has a sextile between their Sun and Uranus setting up a potential yod for the GOP. The 2001 Inauguration had transiting Pluto at the apex, inconjuncting the Sun and Uranus, setting off that yod and squaring Neptune indicating that events could eventually destroy the GOP. Now the Democratic Party has two progressed sextiles with both of them being set up with transiting and progressed planets setting off those yods, giving the Dems an edge with the transiting apex points indicating a move away from a need for war all the time, time, time.

The real interesting chart is the Constitutional Chart of March 4, 1789 when the Constitution became the law of the land. The 22 degree Pisces Mercury, goes with the 21 Gemini US Mars and Congress' Venus at 21 Gemini and then US Neptune at 22 Virgo; 18 months ago Pluto aspected every one of those planets, and that was when we crossed the point of no return. So now we will have something different but it looks like the US Constitution will have the last laugh.

Good rant clymelac. I am also "pissed" about all the pussy-footing around that is going on. It's time to call a spade a spade. I think we are now living in a fascist state, if justice cannot be served, and everything can be kept secret with the lame excuse that it is being done for reasons of security; but this is the way this administration has operated from the start, and no one can bring reason to bear on a policy like that. It's like butting your head against a brick wall. It will take a big bulldozer to knock it down. Very frustrating.

Oh, Cap'n Sally, I am truly overjoyed to read these words from you: "but it looks like the US Constitution will have the last laugh." Actually, it's getting a little damp in here. Excuse me while I grab a hanky. Okey dokey, I'm now ready to do a major happy dance. Yes! Yes! Yes!

Crystal

I have butted my head against a brick wall long
enough. There is not a politician in the world that I would trust. The US government is beyond
help, and frandly my dear. I don't give a damn.

From Steve Judd:

10 Oct 08.11

Premembering the future is like the retro-phrenologist who diagnoses problems and then gives you the bumps on the head to go with them (© T.Pratchett). But if you live too much in the future then the present gets sticky, and the current feeling of wading through treacle ensues. I have a feeling of panicked inertia, as though I’m getting ready to jump over a cliff, or out of a trench on a battlefield, and there’s nothing I can do to stop it. Probably this is just me, but lots of you are saying the same thing so if this is a Mercury Rx effect, then I guess that by next week during the retrograde approach to the Sun a number of ideas will be circulating and the flow will be different but definitely moving.

9 Oct 7.35

Seems to me that the coming Mercury retrograde starting at 05.00 UK time on Friday morning has been in effect for at least the last two weeks. Post strikes, emails not arriving, cheques getting lost, cars breaking down, a lot of people are really struggling to keep head above water. Every Mercury Rx is different, but this one feels like time is stretching in advance of itself. I keep getting flashes of either parallel or future scenarios in potentia, it’s a kind of premembering different futures. This suggests that if we’re getting the retrograde effects now, then the actual Rx period itself (Friday through to November 2/3) will see a slowing down of time and a period of catching up with oneself. And to any scientists or astronomers out there who insist that time is linear, just go away, develop an imagination and intuition and then come back and we’ll talk about common sense and how uncommon it is. The new Moon in 48 hours also signifies a change in tempo, it’s a healthy one for a change, and suggests a period of retrospection and re-assessment as well as improving and fine tuning our senses.

October 10, 2007
Op-Ed Columnist

Bomb, Bomb Iran

By MAUREEN DOWD

Hillary seemed rattled.

Up until now, she has displayed remarkable imperturbability — gliding along with the help of good lighting, a hearty guffaw and a clever husband.

But on Sunday in New Hampton, Iowa, Hillary lost her cool at last. Sparring with a voter on Iran, she sounded defensive and paranoid.

A Democrat, Randall Rolph, asked Senator Clinton why he should back her when she did not learn her lesson after voting to authorize W. to use force in Iraq. He did not understand how she could have voted yea to urge W. to label Iran’s Revolutionary Guard a terrorist organization, possibly setting the stage for more Cheney chicanery.

Hillary said that “labeling them a terrorist organization gives us the authority to impose sanctions on their leadership. ...I consider that part of a very robust diplomatic effort.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/10/opinion/10dowd.html?_r=1&hp=&oref=slogin&pagewanted=print

Busy week. Hope my grades come back before Mercury goes retrograde. Online learning through Merc retrograde: I ought to expect delays, and I plan to work on my final paper on the weekend. Hopefully site doesn't go down or something. Our class project has a chat scheduled for Friday...aaaggggh.

Pitski's ashes are back at the vets. I'm struggling to find time to bury her ashes. I know where I want her buried, but the how is difficult. I don't want to go on the bus alone to pick up her ashes. And I need help with the burial.

No Birthday plans for Saturday even though I'm perfectly free to make them. Just not a lot of money for them.

I was wondering if anyone had heard that the Michigan Democratic Party put the kabosh on early primaries, saying that if the locals there pressed ahead they would not allow any delegates at the convention. Obama, Edwards, Biden and someone else wanted their name taken off the ballot, but Clinton said her name would remain. However, she also seems to uphold the idea of not stumping in the state or asking for money.

This is an interesting development, I think something similar has happened in Florida, right? Both of these states are crucial for either side to win the elections next year.

Last night the Republicans had their debate in Michigan, where GM recently cut a deal with the UAW, and where there might be a strike by the UAW at Chrysler. Thompson looked okay, but I don't think he's a Ronald Reagan. Its hard to see how due to Michigan traditionally being a "blue" state, but maybe the troubles the Democrats are having there could be to the GOP's advantage?

I think Marjorie Orr's comments, which someone pasted in on the Morgana thread, was interesting, she said that the GOP could pull off another major electoral victory next year. But I'm not sure that could happen because of the dissatisfaction of religious right voters, especially if Giuliani ends up winning the nomination. That Uranus transit to the GOP chart could tear the party apart.

On the other hand, Neptune square the Democratic party Sun next year doesn't look so good either, maybe this could mean that they're sluggish or a scandal? I'm not as good with progressions yet, so I'll leave that to more seasoned pros like Sally, Morgana etc.

Personally I could vote for either Hillary or Rudy, because I think they are more similar in their views than many think, they are both moderates who can appeal to the other side and to the center and independent voters like myself. But that's just my opinion.

Does anyone know of these developments, did you see the debates and if so what do you think? Thanks.

Political Wickedness and Moral Bankruptcy

By Rodrigue Tremblay

The U.S. Congress should wake up before it is too late. When armaments are in the hands of immoral people, the danger is high that a nuclear war could be launched. Indeed, people in power who have no morality and no judgment can be expected to do anything, including killing millions of people, to save face.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18530.htm

===

Oil, Israel, and America: The Root Cause of the Crisis

By Scott Ritter

There are many factors involved in what one might term the "root cause" of Iranian-US animosity. But the reality is all of the points of friction between Iran and the US could be readily resolved with viable diplomacy save two: Israel's current level of unflinching hostility towards Iran, and America's addiction to global energy resources.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18529.htm

===

Israel's rising right wing

By Gregory Levey

Together, an enigmatic billionaire and a resurgent Bibi Netanyahu could put Israel on the war path. Dick Cheney, AIPAC and Iran are all watching closely.

http://www.informationclearinghouse..info/article18533.htm

Hillary to Jan. 20, 2017?

Jeb Bush's son to Jan. 20, 2025?

God spare me and the United States of America.

Hopefully, I'll be six feet under.

Hello Barbara, its always good to have reasoned conversation. Yes I think you make a good point about MoveOn reflecting the frustration of at least some Americans. But if they want to really make a difference politically, they have to make the best use of all those planets in Virgo and that Jupiter in Pisces. Which to my mind suggests a much more measured, focused, detailed approach, and reasoning.

I think its kind of hard to dismiss a full page ad in one of the country's most popular newspapers. Even if they kept the "General Betray Us?" part in it, they could have still laidout about 5 key bullet points as to "why" they think Gen. Petraeus "betrayed us". That way, they keep the focus on the war and not on them. They way it played out, the focus ended up being on them instead, and gave the GOP a chance to change the subject, plus they alienated quite a few potential voters by going negative on the military, which whether you like it or not Petraeus represents.

This is why I think what Mumin wrote about the astrology of MoveOn was so important, because that Uranus transit he spoke of could cause the group to keep shooting themselves in the foot if they're not careful. They have to decide if they really want real change, or just make a big ruckus.

Hello Barbara, its always good to have reasoned conversation. Yes I think you make a good point about MoveOn reflecting the frustration of at least some Americans. But if they want to really make a difference politically, they have to make the best use of all those planets in Virgo and that Jupiter in Pisces. Which to my mind suggests a much more measured, focused, detailed approach, and sound reasoning.

I think its kind of hard to dismiss a full page ad in one of the country's most popular newspapers. Even if they kept the "General Betray Us?" part in it, they could have still laidout about 5 key bullet points as to "why" they think Gen. Petraeus "betrayed us". That way, they keep the focus on the war and not on them. They way it played out, the focus ended up being on them instead, and gave the GOP a chance to change the subject, plus they alienated quite a few potential voters by going negative on the military, which whether you like it or not Petraeus represents.

This is why I think what Mumin wrote about the astrology of MoveOn was so important, because that Uranus transit he spoke of could cause the group to keep shooting themselves in the foot if they're not careful. They have to decide if they really want real change, or just make a big ruckus.

Sorry for the double posting, Mercury is about to go Rx LOL. Something weird just happened with my computer.

Sally, I think you make a good point about Rush and Coulter but MoveOn is an official political organization.......the former two can hide behind being just commentators. And please let me say for the record that I think Coulter is an embarassment, she brings absolutely nothing to the debate at all.

Whether we like it or not electoral politics is about playing to the center, so that means not coming off too radical. In this regard I gave Hillary a lot of credit as she's done very well in presenting herself as much more moderate than either Edwards or Obama.

From A NYC native. Gulianani has only one stance: 911. And just before 911 he was very UNpopular in NYC, he was called names to reflect his politics: Adolph Bulliani. He showed up for the 911 photo-op ONLY because his Commmand Control was in the WTC and he was wandering around with no place to go, so he was in the photos. He has no campaign except 911. What I'm guessing is certain opinions are slanted towards a FANTASY about someone who is brutal (cops killing unarmed people and getting away with it), Guliani wanting to STAY the mayor after his term was over and change the rules, milking 911 for all that it's worth. As a NYC dweller 911 is OVER, let's MOVE ON. btw, that ad was brilliant, sure shook RWingers up.
Guliani sucks, always did and always will and he's only gotten worse.
He openly flaunted his affair while still married, and then he announced his divorce on TV before announcing it to his wife. What a real low life skank.
However, Donna Hanover (the wife), a clever news reporter busted his affairs at her own news conference and Bulliani lost his bid for Governor.
The Caribbean victim's families gave him and
his Police Commisioner some voodoo love and they both got prostrate cancer, and that was the nail in that Govenorship bid coffin. REMEMBER HISTORY! (for jackasses who fill blogs with made up bs).
GO VOODOO!!!!
This blog is not about De-BAIT.
Repubs policies suck, anyone who has that kind of conciousness sucks, Period. No debate. Feel embarrassed if your mind goes there, shows the world what lowlife looks like.

Michael,
The need for bipartisan, centrist, moderate working together.has been DELIBERATELY sewn by the VERY RIGHT WINGERS WHOSE GOAL IS TO TAKE OVER! They have fueled the separation and hostility between left & right LIBERAL & conservative, red & blue, rich & poor...............
Have you read Howard Zinn's People's History of America?
This is how the very small number of wealthy land/slave owners, stayed in control and power by creating racism between the black slaves and the poor white farmers. Together they could
have taken over the resources for themselves!
Coulter is FAR MORE than an embarrassement! She's a viscious evil traitor to this country!

"Personally I could vote for either Hillary or Rudy, because I think they are more similar in their views than many think, they are both moderates who can appeal to the other side and to the center and independent voters like myself. But that's just my opinion."

May I politely recommed that you add more facts to your opinion
conclusions by reading:
http://www.commondreams.org/
http://www.counterpunch.org/
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/
http://www.smirkingchimp.com/index.php
http://www.truthout.org/
http://baltimorechronicle.com/
There was an article that addressed the Michigan situation in depth, somewhere last night or this morning................sorry I don't have time to look for it and post it..............thanks to the success of the Right WIng Propaganda Machine for the last 30 years, my hampster wheel calls me............I still don't have $ for the power company this month!
QOP

BTW;
I was active with Move on and the Dem party 2 years ago.
I have pulled away from both as not doing enough to serve the interests of MY country or MY own interests!
They are only CENTER NOT liberal!
United we stand, Divided we fall. ANd we are now in free fall!
QOP

Sally, like many of your energetic insights, this one seemed serendipitous. I've been seeing many twists and turns of the fractal body. One of the more profound of those observations (at least to me) has centered on the energy of prayer. If we are all a part of an interchangeable, and changing fractal, why do we not pray to ourselves? Why do we not pray to one another's energetic bodies?

If we are to create a dynamic that is healthy to the WHOLE, then it seems we need to pray especially hard to those who are seriously, mentally ill -- the bush, the cheney, the princes, the betrayuses, et al.

Thank you again, Sally.

Clymelac. . .you voiced what many of us have been feeling for a very long time. I'm finally beginning to see a different way to effect (i hope) the outcome. I keep meeting more and more people who are beginning to see the truth. It gives me a great deal of hope and faith.

Columbus Day - As Rape Rules Africa and American Churches Embrace Violent ‘Christian’ Video Games

by Thom Hartmann

“Gold is most excellent; gold constitutes treasure; and he who has it does all he wants in the world, and can even lift souls up to Paradise.”

– Christopher Columbus, 1503 letter to the king and queen of Spain.

“Christopher Columbus not only opened the door to a New World, but also set an example for us all by showing what monumental feats can be accomplished through perseverance and faith.”

–George H.W. Bush, 1989 speech

If you fly over the country of Haiti on the island of Hispaniola, the island on which Columbus landed, it looks like somebody took a blowtorch and burned away anything green. Even the ocean around the port capital of Port au Prince is choked for miles with the brown of human sewage and eroded topsoil. From the air, it looks like a lava flow spilling out into the sea.

The history of this small island is, in many ways, a microcosm for what’s happening in the whole world.

When Columbus first landed on Hispaniola in 1492, virtually the entire island was covered by lush forest. The Taino “Indians” who loved there had an apparently idyllic life prior to Columbus, from the reports left to us by literate members of Columbus’s crew such as Miguel Cuneo.

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/10/08/4398/

Sally, could you please restate the full data for the US Constitution and cite the source? I think it would be a good chart for study. Also, Morgana suggested in her thread that the Democratic party has two charts, with the DNC favoring the second one. Which do you prefer, and why? Thanks.

Bhakti, I'm familiar with Rudy's colorful past and don't endorse it, but I think it safe to say that he also cleaned up crime in New York. I was there quite a bit in those years and saw the changes firsthand.

Concerning your comments about "de-bait" I have to disagree. Republicans won't go to Morgan State. Democrats won't go to Fox News. How does this help anything? Politics is about compromise and making deals, that's just the plain truth of it. And until relatively recently in American political history, both parties worked quite well together on most issues.

Not your blog, Sally sets the rules, not you.
Sally has stated her feelings about this several times, go archive, and remember history.
OR
Get your own blog and opine about your ideals there, where you can create a place for pubs and dems to opine away and debate to your heart's content. However, when I visit someone's home, I abide politely with the owner's wishes.

Guliani has a horrible track record, no need to revise history.
History (internet) will always show where our conciousness lies during these times. Those who go with Guliani show the world a lowlife conciousness. My opinion , free to state while freedom still exists. With Guliani, freedom would not last long, why,,,,,,,his track record of being a brutal punk thug, skanky unfaithful husband flaunting his nasty in public. If that floats a boat, says alot (actually very little) about the person who endorses such behavior.

Now off to live a real life, not de-BAITNG with repubs in astro clothing.

G'Mornin'everyone! Missed your friendly ambience very much in my distracted life. (discipline ma'am), need a year to just write and paint. Ha!

Sally, only you can put a warm place in my tummy with your words. You transmit this wonderful womanly wisdom like no one else. You make me feel that we can do this and get through this as the world spins 'round. These are not just words, I can't recall the last time anyone's view of things made me feel better and not separate.
To say merely thank you feels inadequate.

All that is going on makes no human sense at all, and so to apply my attention to it, try to make a picture out of these alien fractiles takes a huge toll on my ability to think. There and barely noticed in the background is this exiled tender child untended as bombs and greed shoot back and forth, we lose a resting place. This is such a resting place for us, and inadequate as it is, I thank you for this place and the way it brings us back home to the golden thread that connects us all.

The Silenced Majority

By Harold Meyerson
Wednesday, October 10, 2007; Page A17

We are condemned, the smart guys tell us, to stay in Iraq. None of the three leading Democratic presidential candidates will pledge to remove all U.S. forces by 2013. In the think-tankocracy of Washington, defense intellectuals of both parties argue that pulling up stakes is not an option.

"Some of the people mentioned as possible defense secretaries under a Democratic White House," The Post's Thomas E. Ricks reported last month, "offer a vision of a U.S. presence in Iraq that does not differ markedly from that of the Bush administration." Even the fantastical idea floated by Defense Secretary Robert Gates -- that U.S. forces should settle into a permanent presence in Iraq as they have in South Korea -- seems to have won at least tacit acceptance among many defense deep thinkers.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/09/AR2007100901733.html?nav%3Dhcmodule&sub=AR

Smile, Though Your Head Is Aching

By Dana Milbank
Wednesday, October 10, 2007; A02

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi was in a determinedly good mood when she sat down to lunch with reporters yesterday. She entered the room beaming and, over the course of an hour, smiled no fewer than 31 times and got off at least 23 laughs.

But her spirits soured instantly when somebody asked about the anger of the Democratic "base" over her failure to end the war in Iraq.

"Look," she said, the chicken breast on her plate untouched. "I had, for five months, people sitting outside my home, going into my garden in San Francisco, angering neighbors, hanging their clothes from trees, building all kinds of things -- Buddhas? I don't know what they were -- couches, sofas, chairs, permanent living facilities on my front sidewalk

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/09/AR2007100902006_pf.html

Happy Days Are Hers Again

By Dana Milbank
Thursday, October 4, 2007; A02

"CLINTON NEARLY READY FOR HER CORONATION," the New York Post informed us yesterday. Almost correct. To be precise, Hillary Clinton is nearly ready for her Restoration. The front-runner for the Democratic presidential nomination has been talking much lately about those happy days when Clintons were in the White House and all was right with the world.

"Some of you might remember," she told the Congressional Hispanic Caucus Institute yesterday. "We began with an agenda to address how to keep young Hispanics in school. . . . Well, that agenda unfortunately was put into cold storage. We're taking it out and we're warming it up and we're going to go back to business together."

Two hours later, Clinton strolled anew down memory lane as she accepted the endorsement of the American Federation of Teachers. "We're going to be able to encourage Americans once again to believe that we can solve our problems," she told the union, informing its members of a need "to act like Americans again."

"Back in the 1990s." "Start working with the world again." "We're all in this together again." "Get back to working together." These phrases -- each of them uttered yesterday by Clinton -- might seem rather backward-looking for a candidate billing herself as an agent of "change."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/03/AR2007100302195.html

The paranoid withdrawal fantasy
Why Iraq is not Cambodia, Mr. President.
Plus: Britney's challenge, the Who's real magic, and lesbian bathroom sex.
By Camille Paglia

Oct. 10, 2007 | Dear Camille:

To end the Vietnam War fiasco, the U.S. did exactly what you are calling for in this Iraq fiasco: Get out now! We did get out in Nam and immediately, and nearly 3 million innocent souls were slaughtered by Pol Pot.

Question: Are you not even a bit concerned that another "killing fields" situation will occur, as will surely come to pass this time in much larger numbers?

Frank Baldino
New Haven, Conn.

Withdrawing U.S. troops and equipment from Iraq will be a complicated and dangerous process that will take many months. But it should be launched on a massive scale immediately. Iraq's fate needs to be decided by Iraqis, whose quarreling ancient tribes and factions have little motivation to compromise as long as the U.S. military is planted there to keep the peace. A democratic Iraq would be desirable in the best of all possible worlds, but it may be a desert mirage -- not worth the loss of thousands of American lives or the investment of hundreds of billions of dollars desperately needed for U.S. social services and infrastructure.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/paglia/2007/10/10/britney/print.html

wv, Dana Milbank's coverage of Pelosi's press conference was very telling, and I'd appreciate very much other's input with their take on this.
Notice Pelosi regards protesters outside her home as a nuisance (understandable), but doesn't address their concerns at all with clear empathy or validation of any sort. In fact, corrected a questioner's use of english. That the public's concerns were an annoying inconvenience towards which she conveyed comtempt? Was that contempt?

As she sat with a most un-genuine rictus of a smile, this stinging arrogance came through her statements (that was arrogance, wasn't it?) about what a fantastic job she and congress were doing!
Bloody hell?

THE most outrageous statement Pelosi made was that "they've successfully cleaned up corruption in congress". Oh....my....god.

Michael, this isn't a forum to "debate" it's a forum to "discuss" those are two entirely different things. I don't care if the merits of "Fox" vs "Morgan State" are discussed. I don't deny that this is a partisan site because it is partisan and it is because I along with about 70 percent of the people in the US and around the world see this administration as grossly misusing energy and power, I agree with that assessment, therefore this site is partisan. I have not only researched this administration but have astrologically been following the GOP and Dem since Kennedy and that doesn't include the historical data I've researched of both the US, Europe, Middle East and to a lesser extent Aisa, not to mention the major wars going back to the 8th Century plus religions before the time of Christ (the Kings of Egypt and Rome kept very good astrological data) There is a pattern that evolves and there are absolutely two sides of that pattern. We have never, as a human race, actually been liberated from the feudal system, but we were making some strides. I am absolutely opposed to the feudal system, whether it's under the guise of dictatorships, fascism, democracy, theocracy, monarchy, plus about 25 more types of government, feudal being one of those forms. Who was the party that supported big business and who has supported the masses have see-sawed back and forth through the decades, with a great deal of confusion as to who does what. Right now it seems as if there is even more confusion with the advent of the DLC, but it is clear that this administration (GOP) supports the elite and the Dems don't know what to do, so the question is whether we are evolving into one party of "the money."

I am not saying any generation will every get out from under this system because it always and has always seemed to be the government(s) against the people they are supposed to serve. I am on the side of the people and this administration is not serving "the people" from that stand point I am a partisan and am a person who wants the truth and fairness of some type, but mostly the truth. We aren't getting that during this period of history so I don't give their talking points, astrological or otherwise, space, at least not in my articles. You can if you wish but keep it to discussion please.

The US Constitution data is "written" in Philadelphia on Sept. 17, 1787 (NT 12:00pm) and then it had to be ratified and there were terrific arguments over ratification for quite sometime. It was finally adopted as written and determined that it would become the law of the land on March 4, 1789 in Philadelphis (NT 12:00pm) 35 years ago I contacted the Library of Congress and the National Archives for the dates I am sure you can find these listed on the web and it shouldn't be too hard to find.

The Bill of Rights are the first 10 amendments added because of the critics of the Constitution who felt the Constitution as it was an opening for central government and tyrannical rule. The entire Bill of Rights were adopted between 1789 and 1791. (same sources as above plus the Federalists Papers)

The Democratic Party is actually the oldest party, but it has morphed a couple of times. The DNC recognizes their modern party to have been with the first Democratic Convention (the Jackson Convention) in 1832. This is a good site for that history on the DNC site

http://dnc.org/a/party/history.html and this is the GOP history

http://www.gop.com/About/AboutRead.aspx?AboutType=3

Sadly Civics are not automatically taught in our public schools today and people under 55 are often not aware of the history, constitution, bill of rights or evolution of the revolutionary war. Most people believe this country began on July 4, 1776, it did not, the declaration of independence was a declaration of war and between 1776 and 1789 there were 6 presidents under the "Confederation" not until Washington's Inauguration and the adoption of the Constitution of the "Republic" was there a country, both of these events came at the same time in 1789.

I am sure no one wants to read this whole brief civics lesson but I just got on a roll.

Personally, I kinda hope that Giuliani does win the GOP nomination, if for no other reason than that it will likely serve as THE catalyst for splitting up that awful US Cancer Sun-aligned racket for good, or at least giving it a desperately needed hard jolt. I can't imagine that the fundamentalist Christian wing, particularly in the South, would ever tolerate a secular, Northeast/Yankee Liberal Republican as their party head. They will, without a doubt, go their own way and form their own Ultra-Right Wing "Christian Conservative Party" with someone like Pat Robertson heading it up.

Then perhaps, after much reorientation and turmoil, the Republican Party reconstitutes itself as a Moderate/Centrist Party, and the Dems are then free to push further to the Left. Just speculation, really, but something sooner than later has got to bust up this increasingly useless two-party duopoly. If it ever worked in any meaningful way at all, it certainly isn't now.

I do find Sally's suggestion interesting. The North American Union... Three Presidents and parties/blocs emerging from each of the three countries? That could definitely shake things up and alter the political dynamic in a major way. Somehow, though, I don't think this will turn out at all the way the Globalists and secret society "One Worlders" have hoped.

Send Mitt Romney Home

Wednesday, Sep 26, 2007
Charley Reese

Mitt Romney is a joke and a jerk and the least qualified of the Republican candidates for the job of president.

Never mind his slide from liberal to conservative positions, which always spells "opportunist." Never mind that out of the canon of Western literature he chose as his favorite novel "Battlefield Earth," a science-fiction potboiler by the founder of Scientology, L. Ron Hubbard.

Romney has demonstrated in his public statements a truly astounding ignorance of the world. He also has shown himself to be a liar. He claimed to have been a hunter "pretty much all my life." Turns out, he's been hunting twice

Scroll down

http://www.kingfeatures.com/sales/kol.htm

Al Gore's Fans Make 2008 Draft Pitch

October 10, 2007 11:32 AM EST |

WASHINGTON — Draftgore.com, which describes itself as a group of grass-roots Democrats, underwrote a full-page open letter to Al Gore in Wednesday's New York Times, imploring the former vice president to enter the presidential campaign.

The ad, which says 136,000 people have signed Draftgore's online petition, was published two days before this year's Nobel Peace Prize is expected to be announced. Gore has been nominated for the prize because of his campaign to bring attention to global warming.

"America and the Earth need a hero right now _ someone who will transcend politics as usual and bring real hope to our country and to the world," Draftgore's letter said.

Monica Friedlander, founder and chair of Draftgore.com, said the timing of the $65,000 ad was a coincidence and not related to the prize.

"All we're trying to do is persuade him that it's a moral imperative for him to be a candidate," said Friedlander, 47, a public relations specialist in Oakland, Calif. She said the group raised the money for the ad with an e-mail solicitation sent out last week, receiving more than 2,000 donations.

Although Gore has said he has no intention of becoming a presidential candidate, several groups around the country are trying to persuade him to enter the race.

"He deeply appreciates the heartfelt sentiment behind this ad and understands where this comes from, but he has no intention of running for president," said Gore spokeswoman Kalee Kreider.

As the Democratic nominee in 2000, Gore won the general election popular vote but lost the electoral vote to George W. Bush after a legal challenge to the Florida result that was decided by the U.S. Supreme Court.

Since then, the former Tennessee senator has worked against global warming and served on corporate boards, including Google and Apple Inc.

Source Huffington Post

Gore Up For a Nobel Prize this Week, Right Wingers Prepare to go Nuts!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jackson-williams/gore-up-for-nobel-prize-t_b_67879.html?view=print

Comments on The Huffington Post re Nancy Pelosi's
luncheon with the Press....they are not kind...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/10/10/protesters-building-large_n_67826.html

I knew it would come to this...

ibsteve2u (See profile | I'm a fan of ibsteve2u)

Do you realize what certain segments of the population may conclude from Pelosi's remarks? I can guess:

"See - once a woman achieves real power all it does is bring out their vanity and pettiness; rather than concern themselves with issues of real substance they dwell on appearances.".

Such does not further Clinton's electability.
Reply | posted 01:40 pm on 10/10/2007

When I read Dana Milbank's article, 'Smile Though Your Head Is Aching', I definitely and with disappointment concluded that she was being every bit as arrogant as when Bush said the millions of people marching against his war were nothing more than a focus group.

Anyone who feels the need to talk about how she's the Leader is no different than Bush saying he's the Decider,

"We have to make responsible decisions in the Congress that are not driven by the dissatisfaction of anybody who wants the war to end tomorrow," Pelosi told the gathering at the Sofitel, arranged by the Christian Science Monitor. Though crediting activists for their "passion," Pelosi called it "a waste of time" for them to target Democrats. "They are advocates," she said. "We are leaders."

President Carter speaks out against torture by the Bush administration! He sure seems to be getting testy about crimes of genocide and torture lately. A few days ago he actually yelled at someone who wouldn't let him see the victims in Darfur.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/10/10/carter-america-tortures/

Carter: America tortures

WASHINGTON (CNN) — Former President Jimmy Carter said Wednesday he is convinced the United States engages in torture that clearly breaches international law and told CNN President Bush creates his own definition of human rights to escape violating them.

"I don't think it. I know it, certainly." the former president told CNN's Wolf Blitzer when asked if he thinks the United States commits torture.

"Our country for the first time in my lifetime has abandoned the basic principle of human rights," Carter continued. "We've said that the Geneva Convention does not apply to those people in Abu Ghraib prison and Guantanamo, and we’ve said we can torture prisoners and deprive them of an accusation of a crime to which they are accused."

more...

Tibetan exiles in India demonstrate at the Chinese embassy there.
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5g6NG8iGoKShLziFNw8plKcqZubtwD8S69U400

Hi Sally and Bhatki, I just wanted to respond if I may. First of all Sally there was never any dispute as to who runs things here and why, nor was it my intention to change anything. I was, as you stated, looking for the truth. For me, that means being open to all sides and all possibilities, regardless of how I might feel about the personalities involved. From what I gather of what you have expressed, you have a different view of what truth means.

For me the only way I can get to the truth is by discussing the issues a lot with people, often people I don't agree with. I approach the whole thing from the standpoint that I don't have all the answers, and what I thought was the truth may not be at all. That is why I am a centrist, because I think both the left and right have a vested interest in their ideology winning the day, not truly what's in the best interest for us all.

So, I not here to debate you or anyone else here Sally, and I respect all here even as I'm called names like ghoul and lowlife. From those who would ordinarily consider themselves evolved beings. But I do ask questions, and thus far I've tried very hard to keep mine astrologically based. From what I see here and in as many months, that also does not seem to be the case with many posters. Again, this is fine by me, its your ship. Just trying to clarify things is all.

I find it interesting that Bhakti would suggest that Voodoo spells were put on Rudy and then wished that he suffer from prostate cancer-and that no one said a word. Imagine if a conservative said something like "Elizabeth Edwards got breast cancer because she and her husband advocate this or that" what kind of workout many of you would give said conservative, and rightly so. Such comments have no place in the 21st century, and as far as I'm concerned it doesn't matter what side of the political aisle it comes from. The truth of the matter, when it comes to Rudy, is that he is responsible for cleaning up NYC of organized crime, drug gangs and the rest of it. Even Astrodatabank, who has as its frontpage feature Rudy's horoscope, has said as much. Are they now shills for the GOP too? That doesn't take away at all the other things Bhakti mentioned about Rudy, his marital issues, etc. I fully acknowledge that. I'm just looking for the truth. Not demonize someone I might disagree with.

One of the biggest criticisms of the Bush administration, is that he/it isn't very open to hearing other or different points of view. I imagine it could be said, that "discussion" is okay, but not "debate". With all due respect Sally, that sounds very close to what you said above.

I could go on, but at this point we've both had our say, and you can and will get the last word. But let me be clear-I am here because I want to learn more about political astrology, and along the way I want to ask questions. If doing that is uncomfortable to some, wouldn't it be better to simply move on (pardon the pun) to the many other threads in this very nice forum? A major tent of new age mindset is tolerance. That tenet is a cornerstone of our Constitution, too.

By the way, thank you Sally for the historical references. From what I gather you're much older than me, and for what its worth I don't want to come accross as disrespectful in any way to you or anyone else here, and that includes Bhakti and the un-named lady who called me a "ghoul" LOL. But if we're really trying to find the truth, maybe we should take a page out of President Bill Clinton's book-he was effective, because he was open to the truth from all sides. No one will ever accuse him of being an ideologue. Thanks for listening and giving me the time to respond.

I just got in and "touched in" so I am going to seem a little off point.
Bhakti-thank you so much for your succinct description of Guiliani, his history and his character.
In a way I would love to see him seriously running for president on the Rebuplicn ticket for just the points you touched on. He is so phoney and I would love to be around while the American public is reminded of who and what he truely is.
PatB- what you said in regards to Sally is just so close to my heart. She always makes me warmly ,softly proud of being a woman. All the intelligence with all that warmth, UMMMM.

Jimmy Carter is on a roll!

http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN1026419120071010?feedType=RSS&feedName=politicsNews&rpc=22&sp=true

Jimmy Carter calls Cheney a "disaster" for U.S

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Former U.S. President Jimmy Carter on Wednesday denounced Vice President Dick Cheney as a "disaster" for the country and a "militant" who has had an excessive influence in setting foreign policy.

Cheney has been on the wrong side of the debate on many issues, including an internal White House discussion over Syria in which the vice president is thought to be pushing a tough approach, Carter said.

"He's a militant who avoided any service of his own in the military and he has been most forceful in the last 10 years or more in fulfilling some of his more ancient commitments that the United States has a right to inject its power through military means in other parts of the world," Carter told the BBC World News America in an interview to air later on Wednesday.

"You know he's been a disaster for our country," Carter said. "I think he's been overly persuasive on President George Bush and quite often he's prevailed."

more...

Did y'all see the news that all but three members of the House voted to crack down hard on war profiteers? Yay Housecritters! Also, Kindasleazy has apparently been under so much fire that State is saying they are re-examining the whole Blackwater matter. Yay (if true)!

Go to DU and talkingpointsmemo.com, among others, for the details.

And what was that saying we used to have about feeding trolls? Uhhhhhhhh . . . . .

Here's the link to the Blackwater contract re-"thinking"
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/2007/10/state_dept_may_phase_out_black.php

And here's a link to the bi-partisan (!) war profiteering bill that sailed smashingly through the House:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3023592

Shylurker-thanks for the links. I want so much for more information to come out about Blackwater,Dynecorps,KAKI (spg?) etc and about Blackwaters expansion right here at home and about Blackwater's activities in New Orleans after Katrina. I have always thought that normal Americans would be up in arms if they knew about this and now it looks like I was right.
And look at that Jimmy Carter. WOW!! I already saw him as redeemed and now he is adding stars to his crown as far as I am concerned,

Yep, clymela, Jimmy rocks!!

The good news continues to roll in!!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21224607/site/newsweek/

Gonzales Lawyers Up
Still under investigation by Congress and Justice Department lawyers who once worked for him, the former attorney general has turned to a leading Washington attorney to help him beat the rap.

Oct. 10, 2007 - No sooner did Alberto Gonzales resign as attorney general last month than he retained a high-powered Washington criminal-defense lawyer to represent him in continuing inquiries by Congress and the Justice Department.

Gonzales’s choice of counsel, George Terwilliger—a partner at White & Case—is ironic if not surprising. A former deputy attorney general under the first President Bush, who later helped oversee GOP lawyers in the epic Florida recount battle of 2000, Terwilliger had been a White House finalist to replace Gonzales—only to be aced out at the last minute by retired federal judge Michael Mukasey.

The top concern for Gonzales, and now Terwilliger, is the expanding investigation by Glenn Fine, the Justice Department’s fiercely independent inspector general, according to three legal sources familiar with the matter who declined to speak publicly about ongoing investigations. Originally, Fine's internal Justice probe—conducted in conjunction with lawyers from the department’s Office of Professional Responsibility—focused on the mass dismissal of U.S. attorneys late last year. The investigation has since broadened to include, among other matters, charges that Gonzales lied to Congress about the Bush administration’s warrantless surveillance program and the circumstances surrounding his late-night March 10, 2004, visit to the hospital room of then attorney general John Ashcroft. At the same time, Congress is continuing to pursue more documents on harsh CIA interrogation techniques approved by Gonzales

more...

October 11, 2007

Marines Press to Remove Their Forces From Iraq

By THOM SHANKER
WASHINGTON, Oct. 10 — The Marine Corps is pressing to remove its forces from Iraq and to send marines instead to Afghanistan, to take over the leading role in combat there, according to senior military and Pentagon officials.

The idea by the Marine Corps commandant would effectively leave the Iraq war in the hands of the Army while giving the Marines a prominent new role in Afghanistan, under overall NATO command.

The suggestion was raised in a session last week convened by Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates for the Joint Chiefs of Staff and regional war-fighting commanders. While still under review, its supporters, including some in the Army, argue that a realignment could allow the Army and Marines each to operate more efficiently in sustaining troop levels for two wars that have put a strain on their forces.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/11/washington/11military.html?_r=2&hp=&oref=slogin&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin

Last update - 20:00 10/10/2007


PA Chair Abbas lays out first precise demands for Palestinian borders

By The Associated Press

Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas on Wednesday laid out his most specific demands for the borders of a future independent state, calling for a full Israeli withdrawal from all territories captured in the 1967 Six-Day War.

Abbas' claim comes as Israeli and Palestinian negotiating teams are trying to hammer out a joint vision for a future peace deal in time for a U.S.-hosted conference next month.

With Israel seeking to retain parts of the West Bank and east Jerusalem, Abbas' comments appeared to set the stage for tough negotiations, which are expected to include complicated arrangements such as land swaps and shared control over holy sites.
Advertisement

In a television interview, Abbas said the Palestinians want to establish a state on 6,205 square kilometers of the West Bank and Gaza Strip. It was the first time he has given a precise number for the amount of land he is seeking.

"We have 6,205 square kilometers in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip," Abbas told Palestine TV. "We want it as it is."

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=911440

I read the Jimmy Carter thing at Reuters........I really hate those Catrter bashers! ( Comments under the article.) What got their briefs in a wrinkle? They didn't make enough money?
The Carter era was the BEST TIME of my life!
QOP

This is just too cool! For those who love Cockatoos who like to rock and roll and sing and shake it up good...

http://birdloversonly.blogspot.com/2007/09/may-i-have-this-dance.html

Sally, excellent piece. Thank you. I'm mindful of this Saturday's Venus conjunction to Saturn (4 Virgo). 4 Virgo is the degree of the Lunar Eclipse of 8/28. Then on October 28th, Venus reaches 18 Virgo, the degree of the 9-11 eclipse. Sandwiched in between these two eclipse sensitizers, is Venus's confrontation with the "warmonger at 8 Virgo on October 18th. This day marks Venus's square to the fixed star Aldebaran, the star of "the honor of generals" in conflict with warmongering blood lusters. 8 Gemini is the degree of Bush's Second Inauguration Moon and is closely conjoined to the erratic and often destructive USA's Uranus. (Since Bush's second inauguration, we've been treated to one shocking, disruptive and horrific scandal after another. Far worse than what he managed to bungle during his first term).

So far as immediate events are concerned, I'm not feeling particularly hopeful about a big shift looming on the horizon anytime soon. I see the shift arising out of Uranus's move into Aries. It will square Pluto in Capricorn starting in 2010 and up through about 2015. 2012 is wedged in there, and I am anxious about the dawning of that year. What I'm seeing is that there will be 7 periods of "shock and awe" where it may well (finally!) be impossible for the American people to engage in denial. I can't remember who it was who said this, but he remarked that the American people might not get the message until their lives begin to mirror 1932 depression economics.

If memory serves me correctly the Uranus-Pluto square occurs a total of 7 times. Now that's what I call a major shift! It will be, by definition, disruptive, because what other power could serve to dislodge or destablize growing fascist tendencies that will only expand once Pluto enters Saturn-ruled Capricorn? By 2022 Pluto will return to the position it held in the USA's chart when the Declaration of Independence was written. We are facing another confrontation with oppression and oppressors. Perhaps Moveon.org is the 21st Century's answer back to the revolutions of the 1700's.

The Uranus-Pluto square is the first major challenge aspect arising from the conjunction of the two in Virgo in the 1960's. It will be big. Very big.

Fasten your seat belts, folks. It's going to be a bumpy night! Thanks again Sally for your very fine work. Claudia Starcats

Shylurker, I was wondering if you had any astrological comments to add with the articles and links you posted in the thread? I have no idea what the founding data of the organization could be, but perhaps you do. Would be very much interested to read your astrological analysis. Thanks.

Claudia, I have read several astrologers opine on the upcoming transits you mentioned, the Uranus to Pluto square, with Uranus in Aries and Pluto in Capricorn. Like you, they seem to feel that it can suggest major economic downturns.

Earlier today as I was listening to NPR's "Money Place" program I heard them mention something that really made me take notice. They said that this time last year, there were about 13 billionaires in China. This year tht number swelled to over 100.

In India, their stock market broke a national record exceeding 18,000 points, with rapid growth and expansion in that country.

Then, later on the BBC news hour, an interesting report from Kenya. At one time people were starving there. Now they're suffering from obesity and diabetes, the result of a rise in lifestyle.

It would seem from all of this evidence that contrary to the idea that the rich keep getting richer and the poor get poorer, that in fact people the world over are moving up the economic ladder all the time.
My question to you Claudia, is on what economic and/or astrological cyclical basis do you have to suggest that the upcoming Uranus-Pluto square is likely to manifest in "depression-like" times for Americans? Could you please explain this?

VW, you posted an article that speaks of the USMC wanting to get out of Iraq. I'll take your word for it, but I wanted to know if you had any astrological data for the Marines, and what if anything in their chart indicated a desire to get out of the Middle East? Thanks in advance for clarifying matters.

VW, I have data for the State of Israel: May 14 1948 at 4PM EET Tel Aviv, Libra riser at 23 degrees. The problem for me is that its hard to understand the astrological situation for the Palestinians due to a lack of a key chart of some kind, at least for me. In your view, what chart could be used for the Palestinian people, and if you know would you share it with the group please? Thanks.

Unamed man/woman, I meant to respond to you earlier. Yes, I am familiar with Zinn's work and have read much of his books. I compare his work to that of Ambrose and others, and make my own conclusions. Are you familiar with him?

Thanks also for the links, will check them out when time permits. Maybe one day I can return the favor. Thanks again.

Claudia, how great to hear from you, Starcats has been badly missed. You are right, I think we passed the point of no return with this group and I'm not seeing a great deal of difference between Crazy King George of England in the 1700's and this George. Before this country got to the point of Revolution, the oppression of King George and the East India Trade Companies became unbearable for the people and I think it will be again, and then we hopefully will rise. The "first shot" of the Revolution started in April of 1775 and Pluto had already reached later degrees of Capricorn and it wasn't until Pluto crossed in Aquarius before the war was even finished. I don't see a way out of this "fractal" slide until 2020, then we will have to decide which stem will be the base on which to build again. I think the 2008 Saturn/Uranus opposition is going to be nasty for the US, again hitting the Sept. 11 Eclipse point. I so agree with your "it will be a bumpy ride.

Been thinking about your dad and so very much hope he's well.

The Marines started in a bar in Philadelphia on Nov. 10, 1775, they are now part of the Navy

Michael- Your posts seem well-intentioned and honest. You seem sincere enough to sympathise with, but you are talking to the void. Perhaps you should find another site where you are welcome and leave this one to face its own bitterness.

I don't come to this site much anymore and haven't posted in quite some time, because it seems to frequently stew in hatred. Although I have never faced the wrath of one of the several syncophants, I sympathise with anyone who comes here with a fresh mind and open heart, honest intentions, but who is met with holier-than-thou condemnation.

I despise the current politics as much as any hardcore left-winger, but castigating those who don't toe the astroparty line is nauseating. Some of you have become little more than hate-filled witches, filled with intolerance and poison.

Sally, your insights are valuable, and you do a great public service. But ask yourself, what does a new visitor see in these posts - lightness or darkness?

I would be curious to know the age and financial circumstances of Michael and xyz. You may not be aware that they changed the rules on us elders in mid life, some of us are already experiencing CLaudia's statement,
"the American people might not get the message until their lives begin to mirror 1932 depression economics."
I AM THERE NOW; since SS is being cheated with ENRON like figures. We remember how life used to be, we're undesirable!
I personally have found love caring and support here at Astroworld! bitterness, intolerance, poisonous witches??? what an odd perspective!
QOP

October 11, 2007
Gates Says Military Faces More Unconventional Wars

By DAVID S. CLOUD

WASHINGTON, Oct. 10 — Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates said Wednesday that the Army needed to improve its ability to train foreign militaries and to prepare for other unconventional conflicts that it was likely to face in coming decades.

Speaking to a gathering of current and retired soldiers, Mr. Gates sketched out a vision for making the Army better at conducting wars like those in Iraq and Afghanistan, which he said would “remain the mainstay of the contemporary battlefield for some time.”

His message was in many ways a blunt challenge to the Army not to treat the current conflicts as anomalies and to retreat into the more familiar task of preparing for conventional combat, as it did after the Vietnam War. Future conflicts, he said, “will be fundamentally political in nature and require the application of all elements of national power.”

“Success will be less a matter of imposing one’s will and more a function of shaping behavior of friends, adversaries, and most importantly, the people in between,” he said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/11/washington/11gates.html?_r=1&oref=slogin&pagewanted=print

October 11, 2007

Doris Lessing Wins Nobel Prize in Literature

By REUTERS

STOCKHOLM, Oct 11 (Reuters) - British novelist Doris Lessing won the 2007 Nobel Prize for literature, the Swedish Academy said on Thursday.

The academy, which decides on the prestigious 10 million Swedish ($1.54 million) award, called the 87-year-old Lessing an "epicist of the female experience, who with scepticism, fire and visionary power has subjected a divided civilisation to scrutiny".

This was the fourth of this year's crop of Nobels, handed out annually for achievements in science, literature, economics and peace.

The prizes bearing the name of dynamite inventor Alfred Nobel were first awarded in 1901 in accordance with the 1895 will of the Swedish businessman.

from NYTimes

You'll be shocked, too. On second thought, Blackwater may be around for quite a while:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2019281

Claudia, after reading your post, i vividly saw the mythic conflict, a dirty-dog, drag-out fight for power during the Uranus/Pluto square off. I'm not sure that we'll be sitting by the ring this time, rather the fight will move through the streets.

wv, Did you ever read Lessing's sci-fi series? They were every bit as good as the Golden Notebook, but in an entirely different way. I believe it was the Canopus in Argus series. The allegory quite subtle, but distinctly drawn to parallel what she saw as the malaise of civilization.

This morning awakening too early for the essentially 12 hour workday in front of me I turn on my machine and open u YAHOO! and there was the news about Lessing. How wonderful what a strike for truth and honesty.
One of the things that has supported me in these times has been Doris Lessing and the things she taught me through her literature.
Yes QOP- xyz, Michael,etc seem to be very weird in what they believe that they are reading here.
Michael the rise of obesity and diabetes in Kenya is not evidence of prosperity but rather is evidence of the arrival of highly processed food loaded with corn sweeteners, etc.

QOP- and furthermore.... talk about changing the rules half way through. At my county there is serious talk of cutting out medical coverage for retirees and requiring those of us still working to pay 100% of the medical coverage which as you know is prohibitive.
This is being decided by those who will not be involved or effected because they are still in their 20's and 30's and don't ofetn need medical care or they are covered by other resources such as the plans that executives receive.
Yes things are going to get pretty ugly and with chronic conditions many of us won't make it all the way which judging from what I often see and hear in the media is a semi-conscious wish. You know those overweight, old fools with diabetes and heart problems they are the ones who have caused the outrageous profits of the insurance industry.

Xyz, thanks for the kind comments and support, though I have to say that I fully support Sally and others' right to express themselves in the way they see fit. I only question if the methods they choose is in line with the desired result they wish to see come about.

This was why I brought up the MoveOn New York Times ad, because it serves as an excellent example. Its one thing to be miffed at someone or something, quite another to actually move to make change. Imagine if Martin Luther King approached things the same way.

I abhor censorship of any kind, and have learned that the price of democracy is tolerance. That means having both a very thick skin and the courage to be willing to have your beliefs and id3eas questioned by those who don't agree with you.

If Sally's reading along, thanks for both the data for the US Constitution and the US Marine Corps. I will study them and report what I find, and hopefully others may want to join in.

Clymela, with all due respect its not a matter of whether I believe what the BBC said about Kenya. I actually heard diabetes patients in Kenya talk about their condition, and how they view the eating of fruits and vegetables as "low class" and wanted to eat "upper class" food such as you described. It is a fact that in some parts of Africa, there is a demonstrable growing black middle class. South Africa is a great example of this. And puts the idea of everyone in Africa living in abject poverty in serious question.

I should also point out that actually Clymela, its the Baby boomers who are more likely to have their healthcare needs and so on met, moreso than the Gen-Xers etc. The reasons for this should be easy to see. Social Security is all but a given for the former group, plus they came along when it was possible to raise a family, sen kids off to college and live a very comfortable middle class lifestyle by coming right out of high school and working at GM. That is very hard to do these days, and many younger people exist by working at big box stores. Among other groups in the country, unemployment rates can be as high as 50%.

So, while I empathize with you and others of your age group who may have a hard time, statistically and demographically speaking, the facts say something else.

Good grief, clymela, that's pretty dire. Several years ago, it occurred to me that the medical care counties provide indigents (and you have to be mighty poor to qualify--income levels lower than Medicaid) could well be the wave of the future for ever-increasing numbers of us as costs increased, incomes remained stagant and our tax dollars increasingly spent on war. The medical care provided to indigents is pretty much limited to risk of loss of life or limb. Bushco: What a deal!

Ah the high price of tolerance! If one were less tolerant and more demanding maybe the GenXer's wouldn't have to work at the big box store. here might even be something desirable to buy! And if nobody bought the processed foods with the high fructose corm syrup that supperesses the body's natural insulin, I guess they ( food corpse) would remove it!

That IS terrible clymela! And I listen to the symptoms warnings on the medications ads on tee vee ( I only get abc & pbs at the moment) and realize, that these meds build one on the other....with the resultant poor health! The you are "hooked, trapped"!
QOP

NewsScope for October 9, 2007

The Global Village Enters the Age of Aquarius

Last week, cities across Asia, Europe and North America launched protest rallies against Myanmar's military regime, which admitted to detaining hundreds of Buddhist monks. The widespread, spontaneous response demonstrated how global communication networks are connecting people and events around the world, as if we all live in a small village. The accelerated merging of diverse cultures is a celestial signpost for the Age of Aquarius.

Among astrologers who point to a year when we officially begin the Age of Aquarius, 2012 is becoming increasingly popular. The most recent addition to this view comes from astrologer Mark Borax in his book 2012: Crossing the Bridge to the Future. The author describes the pending paradigm shift, and how we are in the best of times and the worst of times: "The balance of forces is raw and volatile."

http://www.stariq.com/Main/Articles/P0008214.HTM

Senator Craig's new music video...

http://www.nationalbanana.com/

I have no idea what people see in these posts xyz, I don't think anyone is responsible for what someone else thinks. I expect some of the posts are misunderstood not only the words but what they perceive as the "tone" of the post, I know mine have been. However the price paid when you open a forum up to responses is sometimes receiving anger, so as to your question, I don't wonder what people think when they post here or come to read. I hope they get something of value.

If I see it I don't want obscenities or name calling. I do see anger here over the events in the world, including mine. I see anger based in fear of the future, and anger and fear over the destruction of this Republic. Hope you come back xyz, but if you don't I understand that and I am sure on this World Wide Web you will be able to find a blog more to your liking and if you wish to just keep checking in from time to time that too would be great. I will throw out good thoughts as you are traveling around to find a site that more fully meets your needs, you've been a great contributor in the past.

And Michael, I appreciate your posts you bring up some excellent points and I didn't see the name calling toward you, I was really busy and not on the site for several days, but I would have stopped it if I'd seen it. I do want to say that I don't have an "intended" outcome in mind for this site. I just write the articles, people come to post, if they stop I will still write the articles, this is simply a mundane astrological site and there are several around. I encourage people to access them all. Energy is so multi-dimensional and everything cannot be written into one article, all the variables cannot be addressed on every single event, or day or minute. So another astrologer would be looking or taking another piece of the puzzle and to learn and grow you would want to take them all in, there are some really fine astrologers out there.

I'm sure everyone here is familiar with Bill Herbst who has written a lot about the Saturn Uranus Pluto square (he also includes the aspects in the 60s as part of the changes). Here's the page on his site that has all his newsletters. Note his article on the Uranus Pluto cycle at the bottom of the list. Herbst reminds me of Sally saying the Constitution will have the last word.

http://www.billherbst.com/newsindex.html

And witches are soooo underrated and unappreciated! You could learn a lot from them if you would get over all that prejudiced stereotyping.

Wow what lively topics.

XYZ - "Some of you have become little more than hate-filled witches, filled with intolerance and poison."

Well I'm the only out witch here. As far as hate-filled, we've made an effort on this site to keep hate talk, personal attacks to a minimum. Would love to see Georgie as a toad tho, he's the poisonous kind.

I don't torment myself reading Republican Right-wing blogs, (I'd go screaming into the night), so don't torment yourselves with all of us hate and poison speech mongers here. I am sure you will find a nice niche to fit into there with their loving god filled self righteous displays of patriotism.

Claudia, so good to see you!

Remember Eddie Haskell, a character on 'Leave It To Beaver'? He was a super polite sugary phony brown noser around the Beaver's parents. But Eddie was really the troublemaker behind the parent's back.

So much for peace love and understanding.
With Pluto on the Galactic Center people cannot help but to out themselves, not their fauilt, it's the aspects plus delusionary moments of bravado and hypocrisy gone awry and the Universe laying on it's instant karma. Now that is true witchcraft from the Universe as the source(er). Witches, yeah!

cartoons of the week

http://www.time.com/time/cartoonsoftheweek?pkw=PSTMGLTX052307CNND1081&google=yes

Clymela, it isn't the 30-40's who are making the decisions regarding health care. It is the embittered early Boomer children of the reactionaries (Think George Bush and George Will types) who really hate the fact that they can no longer lord it over the rest of America the way they like. They've hated the fact that minorities of all kinds now have a new-found pride and place at the American table. Their segregationist daddies promised them that they would have it the same way daddy did back in the 1940's. They think that if the affluence tanks, somehow we will once again flock the fundy churches and give up our silly notions of equality and let them not only control our lives, but once again our thinking.

Answer to Michael -- First, I didn't say that thet the Uranus-Square was going to usher in 1932 type economics.

I mentioned that someone else, a pundit who's name I can't recall, said that for Americans to come out of denial re economics.

I didn't mean to conflate the two.

Second, read Robert Gover's economic columns on Stariq for a full background of planet transits that ushered in economic depressions in the USA: http://stariq.com/Main/Articles/P0007889.HTM

Scroll down to the bottom of that page to see all his article links. He and many other respected astrologers, such as Bill Herbst (read his columns at http://www.billherbst.com/newsindex.html), and the last 4-6 issues of The Mountain Astrologer magazine (for example) are all studying the cardinal t-square comprised Saturn (moving into Libra in 2009), Uranus in Aries and Pluto in Capricorn. This t-square is the one that's actually associated with economic depression in the USA. Although that by itself wasn't the subject of my post of last night, it's appropos to mention the subject now in connection with your remarks.

The current issue of TMA (Oct-Nov 2007) is devoted to the topic of Climate Change/Global Warming, a subject that will impact economics and politics more than anything else.

Another good book to read is E. Alan Meece's "Horoscope for a New Millennium." You might also want to read (if you haven't done so already) "Mundane Astrology" by Campion, Baigant and Harvey in connection with long-term planetary cycles. These books are available on Amazon. No offense meant if you've already read them. I have no idea what your background is, so don't know where else to direct you for more background.

Many, many astrologers are working together to unlock the planetary keys of the next 20 or so years. This is a group effort. No one can expect to do this alone or take credit alone. The work of identifying the problem and noting planetary timing towards a solution is the work of any true hearted, educated astrologer. I generally work with astrologers privately through e-mail because blogging so often brings in the usual crew of bitchers, whiners and complainers.

Not YOU Michael, but the person who said stewing in hatred? For God's sake. Is that what truth telling is viewed as? I'm fresh out of aromatherapy solutions for a world gone mad. I think it's time for a dose of harsh reality so that we can get busy building that new world structure that will allow us to bequeath something of the planet to the next generation.

Claudia Starcats

Hi WV - I have indeed read Doris Lessing. Back in the 70's, her "The Golden Notebook" was all the rage for reasons cited on NPR this morning -- it was taken up by Feminists as a very important work, something Lessing was upset about. She is a profound and important writer. I was really happy to hear she'd won the Nobel. She's 87 years old and her work was/is prescient.

Sally, thank you again for your excellent article. You've opened the door to discussion, more research, and offer it all in what I hope will always remain a friendly environment where differing views aren't taken as the character defect of "being neeeegative."

Morgana -- you crack me up. You're the resident witch around here. I lol'd on that one!

Claudia

http://www.nature.com/climate/2007/0710/full/climate.2007.56.html

Is this what the world's coming to?

With climate change placing increasing pressure on environmental resources, it is now being viewed as a threat to national security. Amanda Leigh Haag reports.

History is littered with lessons from once-budding civilizations that crashed from their peak of prosperity. From the Anasazi of the southwestern United States to the Mayans of Mesoamerica and the ancient dynasties of eastern China, environmental change has sounded the death knell throughout time for once-thriving civilizations already stressed by factors including high population growth, overexploitation of resources and excessive reliance on external trade. In many cases, severe drought or extreme cold has been enough to push societies to the brink of civil unrest, mass migration and warfare.

More...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20871397/

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20871397/

Book details billionaire's secret philanthropy
Founder of duty-free shopping chain has given away an estimated $4 billion

He wears a $15 watch, flies economy class and does not own a house or car. For years. few guessed that Chuck Feeney was one of the world's biggest philanthropists, secretly giving away his billionaire fortune.

Born in New Jersey during the Depression to a blue-collar Irish-American family, Feeney co-founded Duty Free Shoppers (DFS), the world's largest duty-free retail chain. He liked making money but not having it, and gave it away for years in strict secrecy.

More...

Thank you so much Sally for all that you do here and for the place to come to read and learn. Lovely active posting here today! Thank you all!

Another wonderul article Sally!

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia/article3047606.ece

Only now, the full horror of Burmese junta's repression of monks emerges

Michael and xyz, should you come back and read some more of our hate... explosions. I would like to recommend to you to read something of this author

Gómez Dávila believed that all political errors ultimately resulted from theological errors. This is why his thought can be described as a form of political theology.

The modern ideologies such as liberalims, democracy, and socialism, are the main targets of Gómez Dávila's corrosive and sharpsighted criticism, because the world influenced by these ideologies appeared to him decadent and corrupt.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B3mez_D%C3%A1vila

Also please look up in Greek history how the term democracy was coined. You will be quite surprised. Its real meaning is not so nice.

Another danger if we are curtailed in expressing our opinions more and more is that we will end up back in the middle ages again with real witch hunts and "burnings".

It's about time this became an issue.

Bush Paraguay Land Grab Incites Unease
Asuncion Oct 17

The land grab project of US President George W. Bush in Chaco, Paraguay, has generated considerable discomfort both politically and environmentally.

The news circulating the continent about plans to buy 98,840 acres of land in Chaco, Paraguay, near the Triple Frontier (Bolivia, Brazil, Paraguay) is the talk of the town in these countries.

Although official sources have not confirmed the information that is already public, the land is reportedly located in Paso de Patria, near Bolivian gas reserves and the Guarani indigenous water region, within the Triple Border.

Alto Paraguay Gov. Erasmo Rodriguez Acosta revealed he heard that part of the land purchase consists of an ecological reserve (Fundacion Patria), with which Bush is affiliated.

In its interview with Rodriguez Acosta, neike.com.py reported that he does not have documentation of this affiliation and it could not communicate either with the foundation or with the National Rural Development and Land Institute, in charge of these state lands.

Concern increased last week with the arrival of Bush' daughter, Jenna, and a source from the Physical Planning Department saying that most of the Chaco region belongs to private companies.

Luis D'Elia, Argentina´s undersecretary for Land for Social Habitat, says the matter raises regional concern because it threatens local natural resources.

He termed it “surprising” that the Bush family is trying to settle a few short miles from the US Mariscal Estigarribia Military Base.

Argentinean Adolfo Perez Esquivel warned that the real war will be fought not for oil, but for water, and recalled that Acuifero Guaraní is one of the largest underground water reserves in South America, running beneath Argentina, Brazil, Paraguay and Uruguay (larger than Texas and California together).

“The southern US states are already struggling with water shortages," asserted the 1980 Nobel Peace Prizewinner.

Orlando Castillo, Paraguay Peace and Justice Service member, recalled the US military buildup in Chaco under a bilateral agreement.

Wednesday, October 18, 2006

http://www.pscelebrities.com/alice/2006/10/bush-paraguay-land-grab-incites-unease.html

Not just democracy, Charles, but also anarchy. The ancient Greeks' concept of both have since been turned into something else. Maybe this conversation will stimulate Timothy Freeman to join us again and share some of his knowledge and wisdom on this subject.

Good posts, Pat C. I can't click on the Burma one just yet, but I will. Thugs and atrocities go hand-in-hand don't they?

Morgana, your comments are interesting, especially since you identify as a witch. I would like to know what you think of the following. Now, let me set this up and in the interest of full disclosure, its written by Mumin. After I stumbled accross some of his writings online I got wind of several venues he frequents on the internet. In one of them the topic of Wicca came up, and what you're about to read is his take, astrologically and otherwise, on it.

For my part I don't know anything about it, so I'm open to hearing what its all about and then I'll make up my own mind. But since you are a witch Morgana, and Mumin has addressed the astrological part of the religion, I thought it would be of interest in the discussion.

Please let me say that I know there are some strong feelings concerning the man. I respect that. I'm hoping we can stay focused on the ideas and information instead? Thanks, and thanks Morgana!

"The Astrology of Wicca, Sep 2 2007
OK, so I've been doing a bit of quick research while en route to taking care of some business. Grabbed up my Thinkpad and took it on the road.

According to Wikipedia, Wicca as an organized religion (of sorts) was founded in the early 50s by a man named Gerald Gardner, a former British civil servant working in customs.

Gardner seems to have gotten turned on to the Occult as a result of his lifelong struggle with asthma, which as a younger man was quite severe. Since his family was quite well off, the family Irish nursemaid suggested that she take him to a better climate for Gerald's health. It was during this long stay abroad that Gardner's interest in the Occult grew.

Gardner was born on Jun 13 1884 near Liverpool UK. No time known. Sun in Gemini, Moon in Aquarius. The lung problems are easily seen in Saturn in Gemini, in his Solar 12 on his birthdate.

Gardner's credited w/having written what many consider to be the definitive text on Wicca, Witchcraft Today, published in 1954. This came on the heels of the repealing of the Witchcraft Act in the UK on Jun 22 1951 at London. Gardner is said to have gotten the green light from the Coven he was associated with at the time to proceed w/making what had apparently been secretive material and rites public.

It must be noted however, that considerable controversey persists to this day as to the veracity of Gardner's work; he has claimed academic degrees which have proven themselves false (sounds very familiar to Liz Greene don't it? More on her later); additionally, other scholars have called into question the sources, if any at all, of Gardner's work. Some have alleged that Gardner made up out of wholecloth key portions of what today is considered key tenets of Wiccan faith and/or lore. The controversey continues.

Today, there seems to be a somewhat unclear, if not completely confusing state of affairs for the Wiccan faith. Its very nature is secretive, apparently a holdover from the "Witch Trials" era of European history, although some have also questioned the historical accuracy and legitimacy wrt modern Wiccans. Nevertheless, Wiccans today strongly identify w/this account, accurate or not, and adds considerably to the mystique.

Because Wicca is secretive in nature, and due to the fact that there is no central organizing body, it is difficult to ascertain exact numbers of adherents. Add to this the fact that since Gardner's books have been published, established "Wiccan protocol" wrt initiates have gone by the wayside; the rise of "Ecletic Wiccans" those who have not gone through an apprenticeship under an elder Wiccan, has grown to the point that they now considerably outnumber the more old school variant. Those who still adhere to Gardner's works call themselve "Gardnerian Wiccans".

There seems to be a surging presence of Feminist-inspired Wiccans, who have dispensed w/any mention or giving homage to male gods at all, focusing exclusively on the more feminine forms. This is reportedly very popular among disaffected women in Western society, in particular the UK and USA. Membership numbers are not known.

Wicca taken as a whole, of which many offshoots have sprouted up since Gardner's death in 1964, is estimated as of 2001 to be about 150K members throughout the USA. This number has jumped from about 8K in 1990. However, because of both the highly secretive nature of the faith, coupled w/the looseness of qualifying factors as to who is and is not a Wiccan, it is unsure to know for certain just how many Wiccans there are-it could be more, and indeed there could be a lot less.

The chief, but by no means only "holy" text Wiccans use is The Book of Shadows. This book is considered highly secret, and few outside the faith is said to have seen it.

OK-now, consider the astrology in regard- I said that Saturn-Neptune cycles could play a role wrt Wicca. Now note the birthdates of both Gardner and the Witchcraft Act of 1951-Gardner was born right after a Saturn-Neptune conjunction took place, and the Witchcraft Act was repealed as Saturn and Neptune was gearing up to conjoined again.

Gardner's definitive text was published right after the Saturn-Neptune conjunctions in Libra occured, in 1952-53 respectively.

The survey K refers to wrt membership numbers of known Wiccans, took place when Saturn and Neptune were conjunct in Capricorn.

And K herself has Saturn trine Neptune.

And were coming out from under a Saturn-Neptune opposition, right?

Hmm...

OK, there's more here, and this is gonna be good-so holla back...

Salaam
Mu"

The Bush family has old ties to certain Latin American countries through the grandfather and the kind of people who immigrated to these countries during and after WWII!

I apologize for the double postings, Mercury is about to go retrograde soon. Something's happening with my computer so sorry about that again.

Claudia, thanks for the book references, and I have read them but will do so again. I'm aware of the discovery of Pluto around the time of the stock market crash of 1929, and the Saturn-Pluto aspects that seem to correlate with conservative periods in the American body politic. The upcoming Saturn-Pluto square, taking place just as the election season ends, is interesting to keep in mind. Thanks so much again.

Hi Michael,

Drop me an email with your email address and we'll take this discussion offline.

Thanks.

Carol, I am not sure I entirely agree with your assessment of people like Bush and Will. Neither of them have evidenced any racism that I'm aware of, and we all know that in the case of the former, he's appointed more black people to cabinet posts than any other president ever, including Bill Clinton. And as I pointed out to Clymela earlier today, more people around the world are climbing out of poverty, not sinking deeper. That should be a cause for celebration, right?

OMG Charles, I had completely forgotten about Gomez Davila, I thought he was a very profound thinker and loved his work. Thank you for reminding me of him, I cannot think of a better voice of "governmental" realities after the nationalism is stripped away and we get down to the "realities" of what and why governments maintain their hold.

Several months ago John Dear wrote a book called "Conservatives Without Conscious" a great deal of his statistical information came from the work of a professor in Canada Robert Altemeyer's "The Authoritarians." The type of people drawn to different forms of government and the rigidity of people who particularly need authoritarian rule. Altemeyer's 30 year work could be an adjunct to Davila's work, or an extension. Why we believe what we believe, why some need to make sure others believe as they do or they are enraged, why there is a fear of new information or looking at information in a different way and why we might refuse to look at what is in front of us. Again Charles, thanks for the reminder of Davila's work

Thank you shy. Good to know you like them and that they're helpful.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/10122007/profile.html

An American Recession?

Despite record highs on Wall Street this week, investors and economists are not worry free. Many point to similarities between today's market and the conditions preceding the Stock Market crash of '29.

In testimony before the House Committee on Financial Services last week, veteran economic journalist Robert Kuttner talked about these parallels:

"Your predecessors, over at the Senate Banking Committee, in the celebrated Pecora Hearings of 1933 and 1934, laid the groundwork for the modern edifice of financial regulation. I suspect that they would be appalled at the parallels between the systemic risks of the 1920s and many of the modern practices that have been permitted to seep back in to our financial markets."

More....

I would also recommend Shadia B. Drury's excellent "Leo Strauss and the American Right" (political and historic basis for GOP neocon fool-osophy). If read along Dean's "Conservatives Without Conscience" and his latest, "Broken Government," we can see how deep the assault continues to be on anyone who is not in alignment with the far right's anti-democratic agenda. A very easy read for those who are time challenged these days would be Naomi Wolf's "The End of America, Letters to a Young Patriot." I don't care what people believe while in the sanctity of their own livingrooms. I just don't want a fascist agenda shoved up my or my country's hind quarters like a colonoscopy.

I haven't read Naomi Wolff's book but want to as well as John Dean's new book. I took a philosophy course based on Leo Strauss works but have not read Druy's book, I did not like the class.

Leo Strauss' philosopy can be summed up quite easily. Power is everything. Nothing else matters. Lie, cheat and manipulate the people, even pretending to be religious in order to render the populous pliable (because religion is one of the best ways to control people), who are to be used for your own gains. Those who do this are the winners. Period.

Cheney is a devoted follower of Leo Strauss's teachings. Many of the neo-cons are former students of either Strauss or students of Strauss.

Doris Lessing - the writer who was just awarded the Nobel prize for literature at the age of soon to be 88 (born Oct. 22, 1919 in what was then Persia, now called Iran). Unusal woman for her era. Unfortunately, don't have a time. Never heard of her before yesterday, but apparently she's a prolific writer - fascinating life.

Back home still needing some sleep which I will get pretty soon.
Michael- I had the group of those born late 50's/early 60's in mind. Indeed they are not "running" things but they have been raised in diminishing expectations with some very rightwing foundations and from the articles I read and conversations I hear I believe that "they" are looking for someone to blame and that they are being directed toward certain groups by some really disgusting maniacal Pluto in Leo's.
Also, the children my grandchildren's ages who definately have some shadows on their future give me so much hope and inspiration. They are interested in their history and full of love. They are being brutalized by the religious maniacs in charge of schools, etc but they already know that these grownups are crazy.
Claudia-so great to have you around.
Michael I admire your willingness to be yourself.

Yea!

If the current "fire" energy manifesting on AW is an indication of where the USA is headed in the future that's great. Maybe at long last the mass of Americans are finally waking up from their Rip Van Winkle slumber.
OK I'm aware you guys and gals who've been posting here for a long time haven't been slumbering however the entrance of some new blood with a bit of fire can only be good.
Especially if it's an indication of - Where AW goes today so goes the rest of the USA tomorrow.

The latest news item to make my blood boil is,
"This week's much touted rebuke to immunity-seeking telecommunications companies may be scrapped as Senate Democrats are appearing ever more ready to accede to President Bush's demands."
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Senate_preparing_to_fold_on_telecom_1011.html

In the context Rip Van Winkle's awakening I'd like to be around in say 50 years and hear the answers/excuses of the elders when asked by the younger generation, "What did you do to help during the Bush years Daddy?"

Yours truly
A keen observer and sometimes contributor from afar

Claudia, Clymela, I remember seeing Ms. Wolf engage Harvard scholar Harvey Mansfield on his book "Manlines" on CSpan Booknotes. I thought it was very good.

Although I can understand the ire of many toward Vice Pres. Cheney, I have to chuckle at the fact that he is among the biggest gay rights supporters around, something that is of great interest to those on the progressive side. Politics make strange bedfellows, indeed!

Clymela, please don't get me wrong. To be sure, racism is still with us in varied forms. But its nothing like it used to be, and you sound old enough to know what I mean here. Progress has been made, however slow. And besides, I've never heard of anyone turning cold cash because the hand it was coming from wasn't white LOL. Thanks a lot for the compliments.

Michael, Cheney has never (to my knowledge) supported gay rights. His daughter is gay. It's not the same thing. Where did you hear such a thing?

Has anyone seen that horse patootie repellent we used to use around here? Sheesh!

The smell is kind of strong Shy but the effort to cover the odor is sort of amusing don't you think so? Maybe it's funny to me because I have children (mature now thankfully) who used to do the same thing. You know, try to cover up the smell. It's no harm to anyone.

I ran across a site tonight,it was a beautifully designed site, inspiring really, at least the pictures, but there was all these nasty remarks about AW and some people on AW. I thought it was too bad and I didn't stop to do more than glance at a couple of the astrological articles. Of all the gifted professional astrologers on the web, not one of them is critical of each other. Made me think the site didn't really have talented or educated astrologers aboard. I was sorry about that because the website itself had some lovely pictures and was very well done. They were certainly talented graphic artists and knew how to design a website, even if their lack of professionalism is woefully missing.

Can you believe the gall Sally? Deadbeats come visit your home and use it all, eat up all the food and drinks. Another guest says that's rude, be polite, cut it out. The deadbeats then leave in a hissy fit to go back to their own home, take some of your guests back with them, and then they all badmouth your home. How immature. Wonder if they get paid to go to parties?

"Neither of them have evidenced any racism that I'm aware of, and we all know that in the case of the former, he's appointed more black people to cabinet posts than any other president ever, including Bill Clinton."

And yet, Michael, "the former" received, on both occasions, the fewest African-American votes of any man to hold the office. Wonder why? Could it be that some people are able to look beyond such false acts of sincerity? Could it be that some are able to see and call out cheap political pandering for what it is?

Why not ask your brilliant, fully competent manager of a President how well he regards all of the black people still displaced from New Orleans by Hurricane Katrina.

However Wicca came to be, whether "invented" or "reinvented", it seems to be just the healing thing for our overly male-dominated religious establishment. The contributions it has made to the religious dialogue include a second look at the indigenous religions and what they may have to give to the world, and a reappreciation of their ideas. It has made the West look at women a little bit differently.

And it is certainly an antidote to the sky religions looking for a final "storm" to end all storms. Wicca is cyclical, respects intuition and women and their life cycles.

Speaking of intuition, I need a check. I am working on a Powerpoint Presentation and I got the impression Al will enter the race in early December. Wishful thinking and hope against hope, or is there something to this?

Not to mention that it seems to be already an antidote to overhiearchical religion too. Wicca has little bureaucracy to it-perhaps a Head Priest or Priestess or both, but that seems to be pretty much about it. No grand temple or expensive show, just a lot of people gathering in the woods or in a house. Indeed, Wicca seems more of a religion of the house, more private and less about dominating the landscape.

Yes, late 50's/60's Jonesers have some resentment because as kids they got a lot of the social disruption early. They were the first crowd to have their parents divorce in large numbers, and were the first to go to integrated schools. And when they came of age, society ignored them and asked little of them. But for all of that, they certainly aren't reactionaries-and now that the right wing has taken off its genial "Reagan" mask, they have decided to stand with the progressive values they learned in school. Obama is of this generation. So am I, not to mention a surprising number of Deaniacs and Gore drafters. Clinton prosperity has also helped too, as it has made clear that liberal government can really govern and work for the people, and many have gotten finally jobs and housing. And we have started to remember what we learned about FDR and Truman and Kennedy. Even Johnson, whose war and the battles over the draft created such turmoil, is getting a second look at his accomplishments with the Civil Rights act and the War on Poverty.

Gore Wins Nobel Peace Prize!

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5g7HekgTpryrGQ3WAMmmO9E-O4sQgD8S7JIS80

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/12/AR2007101200364.html

The Norwegian Nobel Committee characterized Gore as “the single individual” responsible for convincing world governments that climate change was real, caused by human activity, and posed a threat to society.

One more!!

http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/laureates/2007/

Simon, Shylurker, a few quick comments. First, its completely true that Bush got a minority of the minority vote. All the more reason to give the man credit for reaching out to black folks in terms of high level appointments, I would think. No other president can say they had two Secy's of State, back to back, both of whom were black and one of whom is a woman. Speaking of which, its been said that he considers Dr. Rice to his "sister". Racists don't say such things about black people.

Cheney has gone on record as saying that people have the right to marry anyone they wish, and quiet as is kept there have been divisions within the GOP over this. True, he's got skin in the game due to his daughter being a lesbian, but on the flipside it can also be said that he understands this issue at least as much as gay rights progressives do.

Sally, thanks again for the US Constitution data. I looked at it last night and was a bit confused about the Mercury in Pisce retrograde placement. Given the importance and success of this document one would think that Mercury would be better placed. But after thinking about it, maybe its a reflection of the US' Mercury which is also retrograde and in a water sign. Also, the constitution's Moon is in Gemini close to the US Uranus, and has a Cancer rising for noontime, which of course matches the US Sun. Makes a lot of sense.
As for the Wicca issue, I believe Bush recently protected the right of Wiccans to have their religious symbol included on gravestones of fallen soldiers. I don't know enough about the religion to give an informed comment, but it appears that Mumin addresses some of the comments som of you made about its structure and origins etc.

(((Carol)))
Happy Birthday tomorrow! Can you find some quiet nature spot, take a little picnic of things you love to eat, and meditate on where you are now and where you are going? to celebrate your birthday?
I know......Librans love company, but it might be refreshing.

Comment on Mercury retro! I made an error in my bank balancing;and after retro............I discovered I do have enough money to pay the power bill after all. Merc Retro isn't always difficult. ( Or is it? Did the bank make an error yesterday?)

My daughter and her husband are an interesting study in their approach....He's the last tail end of Pluto in Leo 1957, She's the front line, Pluto in Virgo.1958. They have very different approaches to life!
And Michael, do you really think that the bushco is all inclusive, USING minority figures in their cabinet? Why then did they pick the least adequate Black & Latino they could find to do the job?
I saw that 2000 Repug convention for the Buzzby Berkley vaudville show it was. I had been to those black churches for various functions, when I lived in Phila. and it rang a loud FALSE note for me instantly!
"Fool you once shame on them, fool you twice shame on you!"
I'm curious to know, do you have a strong Neptune aspect in your natal chart?

Thank you Mr Gore!!!
We should now leave the poor man alone, not try to draft him to run for Pres! If we had truly wanted him we could have turned out into the streets in outrage back in Dec. 2000! How selfish to ask him to jeopardize his life to bail us out now! JFK was going to END the Vietnam war. That didn't work out too well did it?
Namaste
QOP

Carol, I apologize for disagreeing with you, but Clinton was no liberal at all; in every sense of the word he was and is a moderate. Remember, he was one of the founders of the DLC as a move to get away from the LBJ era Democrats. He signed the Crime and Welfare reform bills into law, held a restrained view when it came to affirmative action, gays in the military and abortion. It was Clinton who said that the era of big government, is over.

As for Wicca, again I'm not in a position o say anything authoritative on it, hence my reference to astrological comments made on it. I've contacted Morgana offlist per her request, and perhaps she can better educate me on that front.

Oh for pete's sake Michael............
OK so CHeney is for gay rights....UNELSS they happen to be Iranian gays and them. he wants to nuke to dust for being EVIL. Does this make him a good man?
DO you still believe ANYTHING BUSH SAYS?
He's a LIAR.................... Pure and simple He will say anything to achieve his goals.
Say I have a bridge, wanna buy it?
Several Years ago, at a take out place, on a very HOT DAY..........95o & humid, I was finishing up my flounder dinner at a picnic table, persperation running down my forehead, when the family next to me finished their lunch and the Father and a 4 or 5 year old boy started loading things into their van. The boy said " Can we go swimming now Dad?"
Father's response? " Oh I don't think so son, it's TOO COLD".
At 4 or 5 the Parent 's word is God to a child. So that man gave his son a lesson in mistrusting his OWN SENSORY information.
I'm sure that kind of disinformation wil continue from that man, and when the child is an adult his ability to process information, and come up with the true answer will be completely disabled!
It's too bad that you can barely get a job at McDonalds. especially; advance to manager, without a college degree; yet for parenting there are NO educational requirements!
QOP

Yeah! We agree on something! Yes Clinton was/is no liberal!
QOP

I remember those times well, and a lot of people were both stunned and hoping that things would go well anyway. There just weren't enough of us. There was no Democratic internet, netroots, media to rally the troops or even raise money for the recount. There was really, no Democratic Party (12 States back in 2000 had absolutely no Democratic Party at all!)Plus a lot of people fell for that "pious" act of Shrub or felt he would be a four-year ineffective bumbler.

Besides, I can say more on my page:

http://d21c.com/aquariusmoon/Gore.shtml

Thanks for the birthday wishes. 51 is not considered a "big" birthday. I did get some new clothes yesterday, and I'm typing in the loveliest housedress you can imagine.

Coming out of the racial closet. I'm Black, and we've learned a long time ago that substance counts. Appointing two Black Secretaries of State means very little if the policies at the top make everybody else's lives miserable. Besides, the time for that has passed anyway. Back when segregation meant that just being seen with black people who were equals jeopardized your career, having Thurgood Marshall attend your dinner party was both powerful and daring. But since the official walls came down in 1964-1965, there have been a lot more meaningful and substantive firsts. We long ago had the first black astronaut. Mae Jemison and others have followed since. Thurgood Marshall was able for decades to apply his superior legal mind to the Supreme Court. Thomas whines because we've never forgotten just how resentful and mediocre he really is. He will never be a Marshall, neither the first nor the second in quality. We've had the first Black American billionaire. These people wielded real power and real influence.
BET is a media giant, with Radio One rjising every day. The top levels of the Federal Bureaucracy is now filled with career people who are black and wield real power, and whose education is just as good as Condi's.

Lots more on Doris Lessing...

http://books.guardian.co.uk/news/articles/0,,2189458,00.html

When I pay my Library Fine, I'm going to check out one of her books and find out just what's she all about. I haven't read much serious adult literature (maybe the pretentiousness surrounding it has turned me off to some of it), but now is a good time to get past the "critic" stuff and actually do a little good reading. And I remember Doris Lessing from long ago-not in detail, but the name. Of course the best tribute you can give a living author (one year older than Mom!) is to buy her book so she can enjoy spending her royalties and know that people really do appreciate the hard work she has done.

Sorry Michael, that dog won't hunt. Clinton may have veered to the right a bit, but he supported women's right to choose, fought to bring in health care and failed. He certainly didn't bash the poor, the minority, or the different. HUD extended affordable housing for the first time to the working poor and tried to make homeownership affordable. He hired black people who could wield real power throughout the government, not just in show positions. No righty would have even tried. And Clinton was undoubtedly competent at everything, and had an economy that after years and years of being stalled, actually created jobs for people.

even more on Lessing..

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2638056.ece

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=4LYI4HV0LRAUFQFIQMFSFGGAVCBQ0IV0?xml=/news/2007/10/11/nlessing111.xml

http://www.latimes.com/features/books/la-na-nobel12oct12,0,2807771.story?coll=la-books-headlines

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/11/world/11cnd-nobel.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

October 12, 2007
Congressional Memo

Liberal Base Proves Trying to Democrats

By DAVID M. HERSZENHORN
WASHINGTON, Oct. 11 — Of the three most recognizable Barneys in America, one is a singing purple dinosaur, another is a prehistoric cartoon character and the third is a gay congressman from Massachusetts.

Representative Barney Frank, the Massachusetts Democrat, is as closely tied to the issue of gay rights as Barney Rubble is to Fred Flintstone. But recently, Mr. Frank has been under siege by gay rights groups.

They are angry because Mr. Frank has removed specific language about “gender identity” from the Employment Non-Discrimination Act, a bill that would protect gay men and lesbians in the workplace and that gay rights advocates say would now leave transsexuals and transgender individuals vulnerable.

There is almost no chance that President Bush would ever sign the bill. But the bitter tug of war between gay groups and one of their best friends on Capitol Hill is the latest example of how Democrats in Congress, since regaining majority control this year, have been torn between making compromises needed to pass legislation and satisfying the unrelenting demands of the party’s liberal base.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/12/washington/12memo.html?ei=5065&en=1c7066d2e0c64e4e&ex=1192766400&partner=MYWAY&pagewanted=print

I have only been giving the FCC struggle side-eyed attention because really if the Dems give the fascists what they want without a fight I am done with Dems and I will believe what my body says that my heart wants to ignore which is: the Democratic leadership lies and is also fascist. If they let go of this opportunity to protect our right to information that is it for me and I will be off to rend other gardens so to speak.

Al Gore and IPCC have been awarded to Nobel Peace Prize!!!! Per DU

QOP, I think the qualifications of Alphonso Jackson, Condoleeza Rice, Colin Powell and Rod Paige speak for themselves. All are respected by their peers in their respective fields. Powell and Rice in particular are notable in that in Rice's case she was pro-vost at Standford and in Powell's case, he is a decorated Vietnam War veteran having served two tours of duty there, and one of the last generals to come up through the ranks instead of going straight into officer's school.

I believe there is a reverend name Herbert Lusk in Philadelphia, and heads a sizable black congregation. He is a conservative and presumably so is his flock. Also, it is well documented that while blacks vote Democratic, they tend to have rather conservative social views. For example, the idea of gay marriage is not popular among blacks.

I would be interested in hearing more about the ideological differences between your daughter and son in law. Which of the two leans left, and which leans more right of center?

PatQ et al, do not feed trolls.

When I look at Cunti I just see hate all over her skin, not a color.

I won't feed the troll anymore. All I would have to say is..."What accomplishments?"

This time of year I start thinking about Scorpio. It seems fitting that we vote during Scorpio-Scorpio seems to convey the necessary amount of seriousness to the actual endeavor of voting, as if we are really into death and rebirth of political careers.

Anyone know where I can get good pumpkins for pie?

Sally -- hypothetical question -- IF Al Gore does decide to run in 08 when would he most likely make an announcement? Hopefully not under the current Mercury Rx.

I don't think he is going to announce now Teresa, I understand from real political insiders that he has until six months out from the election to announce. Whoever becomes the front runner in the primaries, a person can still take them on, they don't have to win the primary but they have to get in at least 6 months before the election, so the latest would be April or May. The paper says that Gore's aides say there is only about a 10 percent chance he will run, however I think Gore as the elephant in the room is going to just sit right there and make them all nervous.

Jeez Michael, you seem very impressed with people's "credentials". Condi and Powell, the two greatest sellouts of their generation (well, in actuality the list is much, much longer). Anybody can have a resume. It's what you do with your life, what you stand for (and against) that makes you a man/woman of accomplishment. Credentials ... don't make me laugh. Dubya has a masters degree (I think), has owned businesses (from other people's money and which he promptly tanked), was Gov. of Texas (where he proceeded to practice on a local level what he then took to a national level) and I could go on.

You appear to be more than a little daffy. What's the matter? Too many planets in libra? (not to dish on Libra's, both my lovely daughters, a bro and mom are Libra's). But they do love to endlessly contemplate both sides of the picture and hate to make a decision one way or another, though to their credit, they would never take it as far as you seem to do. You just seem incapable of connecting the dots, and extrapolating information.

You keep on coming back with the most outlandish things .... "Cheney has gone on record about gay rights", which is not the same thing as "supporting" gay rights. Particularly not when you're supporting a constitutional amendment to make marriage between a man and a woman and all of the other hate-filled initiatives this adm. has supported to divide Americans (Cheney, remember the guy, he who is said to run the country behind the scenes) ....

Maybe you just have a reality disconnection problem (like much of America). Let me clue you into the oldest secret in the world that a friend once told me about guys ....j

"don't listen to what they say, WATCH WHAT THEY DO". And that will steer you right more often than your wishy washy he said this she said creed. What are you ... "fair and balanced"?

Jeez Michael, you seem very impressed with people's "credentials". Condi and Powell, the two greatest sellouts of their generation (well, in actuality the list is much, much longer). Anybody can have a resume. It's what you do with your life, what you stand for (and against) that makes you a man/woman of accomplishment. Credentials ... don't make me laugh. Dubya has a masters degree (I think), has owned businesses (from other people's money and which he promptly tanked), was Gov. of Texas (where he proceeded to practice on a local level what he then took to a national level) and I could go on.

You appear to be more than a little daffy. What's the matter? Too many planets in libra? (not to dish on Libra's, both my lovely daughters, a bro and mom are Libra's). But they do love to endlessly contemplate both sides of the picture and hate to make a decision one way or another, though to their credit, they would never take it as far as you seem to do. You just seem incapable of connecting the dots, and extrapolating information.

You keep on coming back with the most outlandish things .... "Cheney has gone on record about gay rights", which is not the same thing as "supporting" gay rights. Particularly not when you're supporting a constitutional amendment to make marriage between a man and a woman and all of the other hate-filled initiatives this adm. has supported to divide Americans (Cheney, remember the guy, he who is said to run the country behind the scenes) ....

Maybe you just have a reality disconnection problem (like much of America). Let me clue you into the oldest secret in the world that a friend once told me about guys ....j

"don't listen to what they say, WATCH WHAT THEY DO". And that will steer you right more often than your wishy washy he said this she said creed. What are you ... "fair and balanced"?

Uh, oh, Merc Retro strikes again! Second instance today! Sorry, Sally!

Michael, I didn't get your email.

Hi Marta, "daffy"? LOL! Nah, not daffy, just trying to be fairminded in classic Libran fashion is all.

But I do have to say with all due respect, that the constant namecalling-troll, ghoul, lowlife, etc-doesnt help the arguments made. They only show the people making the remarks out to have weak positions.

I'm not a Republican or Democrat, I'm a centrist, and either side can get my vote, as I said before. If we all stop with the ad hominem assaults, and keep an openmind, maybe we can get to the truth of things. And enjoy some good astrology too.