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Sally will have a new article up tonight focusing on the Isr. vs Hamas/Hezbollah. In the meantime here is a new thread to continue the astrological discussions we're having about the current events popping all over our world.
Morgana Seawalker on Jul 15 | Link
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Divisions over Hezbollah legitimacy as Arab FMs hold emergency talks By The Associated Press CAIRO - Foreign ministers of 18 Arab countries held an emergency summit in Cairo on Saturday over Israel's expanding assault on Lebanon, but squabbles over the legitimacy of Hezbollah's attacks on Israel - including the capture of two Israel Defense Forces soldiers that sparked the 4-day battle - appeared likely to keep participants from reaching a consensus, delegates said. The Saudi foreign minister appeared to be leading a camp of ministers criticizing the guerrilla group's actions, calling them "unexpected, inappropriate and irresponsible acts." "These acts will pull the whole region back to years ago, and we cannot simply accept them," Saudi al-Faisal told his counterparts. Supporting his stance were representatives of Egypt, Jordan, Kuwait, Iraq, the Palestinian Authority, the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain, delegates said on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the talks. Morgana, transfering these comments from the previous thread: yes, stripping the names from the events, just describing it it general terms, makes the pattern visible...and I agree with you....! lol Judi sounds like you're describing what the round eyes did to the Native Americans and continue to do unto this day. New thread available :) this one is kind of leggy. and I also posted: When Rabin and Arafat signed the Oslo accords in 1993, AIPAC officially endorsed them, but—in contrast to its outspoken support of Likud policies—it remained largely silent. Seeing the Palestinians as terrorists who could not be trusted, the lobby looked for a way to subtly undermine the accords. It found one in the issue of where the US embassy in Israel should be located. Unlike all but two countries in the world (Costa Rica and El Salvador), the United States had its embassy not in Jerusalem but in Tel Aviv, in recognition of Jerusalem's contested status. Under the Oslo accords, the city's final disposition was to be taken up in talks set to begin in May 1996 and to conclude three years later. But pro-Israel activists in Congress were unwilling to wait. They got an unexpected boost in early 1995, when Republicans took control of the House. The new speaker, Newt Gingrich— casting about for ways to steer Jewish money and votes away from the Democrats—announced on a visit to Israel in January that he was going to support the transfer of the US embassy to Jerusalem. In the Senate, Bob Dole, who had never shown much regard for Israel but who was preparing to challenge Bill Clinton for the presidency, said at that year's AIPAC policy conference that he would support legislation mandating the transfer. He got a standing ovation. Both Rabin and Bill Clinton were opposed to moving the embassy. They knew that such a step, by inflaming the Arab world, could disrupt the peace process. But for AIPAC and its allies, that was precisely the point Posted by: judigem on July 15, 2006 06:19 PMI should add: Rabin assassinated, Clinton impeached.... concluding paragraph: Has anyone seen an actual declaration of war on this? If so what's the date and time. I thought I saw something about Open War from the Hezbollah but not the Lebanese government, and haven't found it anywhere again, though could be on the last thread I'll go search it. Lynda's Q: where is the furious storm? it is a Bush-fire and it has spread everywhere. Friends here, I've been thinking about the new patterns of behavior by our bureaucracy, how we now react rather than respond What happened here has parallels to Katrina. On Sunday last, thunder and lightning arrived, on my side of the valley we received nearly an inch of rain in minutes- no fire. Just beyond me, inside the boundary of the national park, fires started and there was immediate scrambling of multi-agencies to put it down. Spotters remained to keep check on embers. So what went wrong on the Sawtooth side of the valley? I am reminded of the story: We the people ordered nails, the package seems to have been lost in the mail, shipped to Corporate Center, earmarked for building detention centers, or perhaps those astonishing centers in Bahrain? I'm hearing a lot now about how global warming was to blame, but these firestorms have been a part of the desert history before any of us arrived. I hope to not see global warming become some excuse to throw our hands up and feel dwarfed by the situation. Growing-up as a backwoods girl, a lot of our first jobs were as summer fire-spotters in look-out towers. The Basque herded sheep into the mountains who cleared out dangerous undergrowth. Low budget but effective fire management.-nails. The look-outs have mostly been decommissioned and the roads closed, no grazing anymore. Our reliance has shifted to big govt agencies to ensure protection.....me, i'm thinking we need to find a package of nails....nails hold our home together against the storm. Posted by: tseka on July 15, 2006 06:37 PM IS THERE ONE WORLD LEADER WHO WILL PUT A STOP TO Is there an Eisenhower to demand a Cease Fire on The UN created this situation in 1948. Can't they All parties MUST sign a final agreement and live The weapons trade should cease and desist worldwide. (Hope this isn't a double-post. My first attempt got away from me.) Tseka, Now if Angelides had any cajones he'd call for the California National Guard to be returned from Iraq NOW! Fire season has come a tad early this year. ooops. what border. Posted by: Morgana on July 15, 2006 06:53 PMNow they use inmate firefighters. Big crummies (trucks with lots of seats) which are Bold-lettered with Inmate Fire Team....rolled past my house out to the JT Park. They are up on the Sawtooth as well. Makes you wonder about the 1 in 35 who are incarcerated in Privately run prisions eh? More of the peoples money for "nails" landing in the mail slots of big Corps....is this why we need a state of emergency? Posted by: tseka on July 15, 2006 07:03 PM
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/portraits_grossman.html in fact, all of these intereviews are worth listening to. Enjoy! Posted by: wv on July 15, 2006 07:20 PM
David Grossman Guardian We Israelis still do not dare to wholeheartedly believe that after years of violent conflict, change is actually near. Too many times we've let ourselves believe and hope - and been disappointed. I suspect a few of us feel that what has happened here in the past years is a kind of a lesson, or even a punishment for us for having been naive enough, or stupid enough, to believe in the possibility of a good outcome. http://books.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,12084,1434891,00.html Posted by: wv on July 15, 2006 07:43 PMTseka, you really hit the "nail" on the head regards the total mess Homeland Security has made of domestic disaster reponse, or, "reaction" as you so well put it. Just keep posting periodically so we know you're still alive & well!! Blessings & in this case, cool, wet winds blow your way . . . :-) Posted by: Neith on July 15, 2006 08:53 PMBIGGEST spin by all media including PBS, NPR going
Henry Siegman Observer In Lebanon as in Gaza, it is not Israel's right to protect its civilian population from terrorist aggression that is at issue. It is the way Israel goes about exercising that right. Israel's response to the terrorist assault in Gaza and the outrageous and unprovoked Hizbollah assault across its northern border in Lebanon, far from providing protection to its citizens, may well further undermine their security by destabilising the wider region. http://observer.guardian.co.uk/print/0,,329530758-102274,00.html Posted by: wv on July 16, 2006 12:50 AMWhatever started it, and I don't trust anybody anymore, it is a no win situation. It took about 15 years to rebuild Lebanon after the Civil War. Hariri was quite instrumental in this. He was trying to make a raprochment between the Lebanese Government and Hezbullah...you know the rest. Prime minister Seniora was pleading today. He did it in Arabic. You couldn't find a more honorable man...he's honest, he's really for Lebanon, and he's pleading. He's even making noises about sending the Lebanese army down south...at great risk to himself and to the nation...the army may fracture along party lines and then the Lebanese are back to another Civil War. More dead civilians, more bread lines, more water shortages...more babies blown up, more olive groves demolished, more rapes, more senseless cruelty with the name of somebody's god on their lips. Is this what we want? Is this the 21st century? To make a whole nation responsible for a splinter group is a tactic used before by Israel, and it may be self defeating in the end. It has the effect, you see, of creating the very situation Israel wants to avoid...or should want to avoid. So, Sharon I'm going to pray like hell on the morning of the 17th. I'm going to pray for Israel, for Lebanon, for Iran, for Syria,for the Jews, for the Sheites and Sunni's and the Christians, and the penguines and the polar bears and I'm going to pray for God him or herself! And God is going the pray for me to shut up! Posted by: Beasley on July 16, 2006 02:45 AM Blessed Be on you, dear Beasley. Posted by: JoannaOregon on July 16, 2006 04:16 AMCan someone tell me when I should be praying on the 17th? I live in the pacific summer time zone (Berkeley,CA). Also, could I get an address for lightthegrid? Posted by: clymela on July 16, 2006 04:21 AMI think it's 3am pdt haven't checked for sure yet. Here's the link Posted by: Morgana on July 16, 2006 04:38 AMI'll set my alarm, also in Californa, Santa Cruz Mtns. Posted by: Morgana on July 16, 2006 04:39 AMThank you so very much, Morgana. I thought that you lived somewhere close by. Posted by: clymela on July 16, 2006 04:43 AM* Putin Jabs [bushadruggie]: ‘We Certainly Would Not Want…The Same Kind of Democracy As They Have in Iraq’ Beasley, you're a one-er and an inspiration. So glad you're here with us. Posted by: shylurker on July 16, 2006 04:47 AMGlenn Greenwald's blog Saturday, July 15, 2006 (updated below - updated again) A very significant development is occurring in how neoconservatives are discussing America's responsibilities in the Middle East: they are now expressly advocating, far more openly than ever before, that Israel's enemies are America's enemies, and that the war which Israel is now fighting is also America's war -- one in which America should immediately intervene. I will write my own reactions to this view later, but for now, I want to simply document the emergence of this argument in very influential circles. In the past, neoconservatives have danced delicately around the notion that Israel's conflicts should be viewed by the U.S. as its own conflicts. But, to his credit, Bill Kristol yesterday came right out and candidly put his views on the table. In the Weekly Standard, Kristol's column -- entitled "This is Our War" (by "Our" he means the U.S.) -- argues explicitly what many have contended for some time is an unstated belief of neoconservatives: that the U.S. should view the threats to Israel as threats to the U.S., because the enemy is the same, and should join Israel in the destruction of these enemies. Kristol actually argues that President Bush should immediately abandon the G-8 summit in Russia and fly to Jerusalem in order to stand by Israel, in "our" new war, which should be waged against Iran, Syria and Hezbollah, for starters. This article is very significant and I am quoting from it at length: con't http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2006/07/is-israels-war-also-our-war.html Posted by: Jo on July 16, 2006 04:49 AM++How do we do this you ask? The time has been set for July 17, 2007 at 11:11 Greenwich Mean Time.++ But every heart-song sung to the universe is heard and this is the season of the standstill moons which are known to re-charge the electro-magnetic grid of earth. Adding our passionate wish for harmony and wholeness is very appropriate. more from Greenwald above: "... It should go without saying that one can believe that Israel is within its rights to defend itself against Hezbollah without also believing that the U.S. should become involved in this extraordinarily flammable conflict. But these neoconservatives don't recognize that distinction. As they are now expressly arguing, Israel's enemies are America's enemies, and this war being waged by Israel ought to become America's war -- and the sooner the better. I believe it is obvious to most Americans, who have turned completely on the war in Iraq, that it is sheer lunacy to expand that failed war effort to now include American war on even more countries -- including more powerful ones with more powerful allies, such as Iran -- let alone to do so as part of, and in the middle of, an Arab-Israeli war. But if there is one lesson that we ought to have learned over the past several years, it is that there is no militaristic proposal too crazed or extremist to be undertaken by this administration. And anyone who thinks that these neoconservatives now lack real influence within the Bush administration is sorely mistaken." echoing shy's words -i am so glad you are here Beasley,- your words sink deeply into me. Posted by: tseka on July 16, 2006 04:52 AMMorgana and others wondering about when we have to be up on the 17th, check this out: Jo, is it not interesting how little they bother to conceal themselves now? i ask myself what are we not seeing in this odd little neptune opp saturn with mars and venus pushing it all along so fast? America's bankruptcy? the rats leaving the sinking ship, off to China and Bahrain? It's odd times when we seriously consider "Ken Lay is not dead". Sleight of hand, we all expect it now. Posted by: tseka on July 16, 2006 05:04 AMEr, um Shy it's it set for next year 2007. Posted by: tseka on July 16, 2006 05:06 AMOh. Thanks, Tseka. Now, I gotta to reset the alarm so it'll go off on July 17, 2007. Dang it! Always something else to do. Posted by: shylurker on July 16, 2006 05:10 AMDoubtful that you need an alarm, my sense of you deerhearted Shylurker is that you are pouring much into the grid as part of your soulful life rhythm, as do many here. Posted by: tseka on July 16, 2006 05:15 AM*Blush* [small voice:] thank you. Posted by: shylurker on July 16, 2006 05:19 AMI'm trying to start a vigil for the victims of Mid-East violence here in Austin at the Capitol. I'm trying to get some people together and ask how I can get this done. I do believe in the end that those that will experience the most harm are those that have no control over the bombs and artillary that are killing them and their families, Jewish or Arab. If any of you have done something like this in the past, I would really like your advice. Thanks Posted by: Travieso on July 16, 2006 05:39 AMOne thing that really scares me about this situation in the Mid-East is that it is too similar to WWI and "Intangling Alliances". Like a chessboard, it seems that the World is at the end of the game and any move from the Rooky or Bishop could make the whole chessboard a disaster(well, you get the analogy). Even worse than WWI which was more of a diplomatic crisis, this one has economic components that will not isolate the US from the violence "over there" (yes, a pun to the famous WWI war song). Corporations have made sure that Americans would not be economically or energy independent, and we will be suffering from it. I have not seen any charts yet, but I must say that I don't feel to good about this situation. Personally, I think this is the first glimpse of the coming Pluto in Capricorn. Doesn't Isreal's actions seems so Plutonian, especially considering Saturn as Pluto's ruler (coming in 2008)? wv writes: The three external parties (US, Syria, and Iran) won't touch this one. You can trace that to the fact that Iran wants nukes and that US is in Iraq. > The UN created this situation in 1948. Can't they The UN came up with a solution in 1948, it's unfair to blame them if the parties don't stick to their agreements. Also the UN isn't a government, so it's only as useful as the member states want it to be. Also the member states of the security council Now I know that this sounds cynical, but my real point is that things aren't so simple that they can be solved with a sound bite. > All parties MUST sign a final agreement and live Why cut funding to poor Egypt?! They're doing more to broker peace between Israel and the Palestinians than anybody else right now. Besides Iran and Syria have taken sides, so that doesn't leave the US much room. In fact you can say that Hizzbolah was given money by Syria and Iran to invade Israel and caused this crisis (or made it worse). Also the people of Palestine voted Hamas fair and square, should the US have stopped that after the fact? These are some complex problems that go back a long way. If there's going to be peace then quite a few people have to be on board. Perhaps a President Kerry or Gore would be doing something right now - but sadly that didn't happen. And of course there is the added irony that the guy running Iran and Hamas were all elected in fair elections too. Posted by: Michael from NYC on July 16, 2006 06:36 AMI think an interesting question about the effect of pluto in capricorn might be whether or not the govt in question is legitimate or illegitimate... such as the USian's. Posted by: JoannaOregon on July 16, 2006 07:25 AMI think we don't need an alarm, my sense is that you are pouring much into the grid as part of your soulful life rhythm. Posted by: wall shelf on July 20, 2006 03:53 PMhttp://www.anal-dominacja-analnie-as-polski-sex.vn.radom.pl Post a comment
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