|
Where's the Much-Needed Furious Storm?
by Lynda Hill from http://sabiansymbols.typepad.com/
As I said in my previous blog entry, I hope that in the not-too-distant future there will be a Furious Storm around GWB, and his actions, and those of his cronies, will be revealed. Perhaps the retrograde motion of Mercury back and forth over this degree will stir something up. I didn't consciously have any idea of floods happening along the east coast of the U.S. when I started writing this... but I see that hundreds of thousands of people have had to evacuate their homes on the east coast and Washington DC's monuments are closed.
I do wonder where the Furious Storm of revolt is with what this administration has done and it's neglect of domestic issues and assault on people's rights. It does seem to me like they're 'putting something in the water' in the United States as so many people seem to be asleep. Thank God not everyone, of course, but far more than one would hope. It's extraordinary to me that he's managed to get through all that's happened since he was elected and not had to account for what his administration has done. The Furious Storm degree is also the progressed North Node of the Independence July 4 1776 chart and, further, it was the IC (4th house cusp) in the GWB 2001 inauguration chart (set for Jan 20 2001 at 12.02pm). Hence, the Moon's nodes of the 4th July chart sit on the IC/MC of GWB's inauguration. This 'Furious Storm' fits with the concept that GWB is a 'war president' - as he has said he wanted to be known as. As Ger pointed out in his comment on my last blog, Mercury over the next few weeks will be transiting back and forth over this degree in GWB's 12th house of hidden enemies. One wonders what goes on in Bush's head (at least I know I do!). His Jupiter is on Libra 19: A Gang of Robbers in Hiding. The question strikes me: Who (or what) exactly is the Gang of Robbers? This administration certainly knows how to put the spin on anything to make it sound fearful. Our lives are full of fear - at least reflected in the media. Remember back some years and think about those times when the word 'terror' was hardly heard. Nowadays, every day, several times a day, we hear the word 'terror', 'terrorist', 'terrorism'. The word is implanted in our language and it depends on what side of the country, world or political spectrum just exactly who or what a 'terrorist' is. The 4th July chart for the United States progressed Mars is also on the Gang of Robbers degree. With all this talk of continual threats, imminent nuclear disaster and terrorists, Mars here goes a long way to explain why GWB's words resonate so loudly with some and annoy the heck out of others. George Bush Snr also has this 'Robbers' degree in his chart; it's the degree just moments after his Moon at 17Libra56 (to be pedantic) that degree is Libra 18: Two Men Placed Under Arrest. The karmic condition for George Jnr's Jupiter is also Libra 18: Two Men Placed Under Arrest. I have long said that I believe this administration will most likely one day have to face some kind of judgement for the things that have been done in their name. George Jnr's Moon degree is Libra 17: A Retired Sea Captain and he's had more days off work since becoming President than any President in history. Indeed, one of Bush's ancestors was named John James Holliday, which I find rather amusing. George Snr.in his four years as President, took all or part of 543 vacation days at Camp David and in Kennebunkport. Little wonder George Jnr takes so many vacation days; his progressed Mars is conjunct his Moon, hence, his progressed Mars is also on Libra 17: A Retired Sea Captain. Witness his 'magnificent' descent, declaring victory in the war, on the deck of the naval ship. George Jnr's progressed Sun is presently at 11Virgo18 = Virgo 12: A Bride With Her Veil Snatched Away. Perhaps some truths will finally 'come to light'? Will he be able to continue to hide behind the 'veil'?
He does appear to have some measure of 'teflon' ongoing for him, though, and perhaps his progressed Mercury is one of his 'saving graces' as it's currently on 1Virgo28 = Virgo 2: A Large White Cross Dominates the Landscape. This, amongst other things, represents his continual references to doing God's work. God speaks to him. The support from the religious right and it's ramifications are shown here, but that could change. They may decide that he's not the 'annointed one' after all. Interestingly, the progressed Sun of the July 4th chart of the U.S. is smack opposite this degree at Pisces 2: A Squirrel Hiding From Hunters. So many people in the U.S. are reporting being sick of living in fear. The fear to express their thoughts, whether in person, in emails, phone calls, blogs, etc. It's like big brother is watching - and they are. In the coming years, that progressed Mercury of Bush's will leave the Large White Cross and go over Virgo 3: Two Guardian Angels Bringing Protection. George may finally change so many laws that he, and probably many others, may escape having to answer to their deeds.
Back to Mercury moving over George Jnr's Saturn, when Mercury goes retrograde over that Furious Storm degree, on July 16, transiting Venus will be on Gemini 28: Society Granting Bankruptcy to Him a Man Leaves the Court With Mixed Feelings and Saturn will be on another Sea Captain degree: Leo 13: An Old Sea Captain Rocking on the Porch of His Cottage. This sounds like something is set to happen... although it could just be George taking more vacation days. The more things change the more they appear to stay the same. Greetings from DownUnder
Sally Cheyne McDonald on Jul 1 | Link
Comments
Thank you Lynda. Don't know much at all about Sabian symbols but I found your article interesting. Could/would you give some background on the symbols? Also, how are they predictively speaking? Obviously you wouldn't use them if they weren't effective, but do you use them for understanding a situation or can they be highly predictive? Thanks again. Posted by: M. on July 1, 2006 11:04 PMM., Here's a list of them. Nice article and it would be great to understand the applications better, as M. suggested. Posted by: shylurker on July 1, 2006 11:16 PMHi and thanks for your comments and questions. The Sabian Symbols are highly instructive used in charts of all kinds, in western astrology, sidereal, draconic, horary, whatever! Yes, they are predictive and often highly predictive in a very literal sense - witness the Furious Storm unleashing on the east coast of the States, along with events in Israel and Palestine. Using the Symbols gives you far more information than is possible to glean from a chart without using them. I have a website dedicated to them at I hope this helps! Greetings from DownUnder Oh, forgot to mention: don't forget to round up the degree when looking up the Symbols as the zodiac starts at 00Aries but the Symbols start from Aries 1. This means a planet, at say, 13Cancer20 would be read as Cancer 14. Always add 1 to whatever the degree is. Another example: the Sun right now is at 9Cancer58, you would read Cancer 10... Best Thanks to you both, Lynda & Shylurker. Posted by: M. on July 2, 2006 01:03 AMWhat a lovely article Lynda! I truly enjoyed your site as well. Wonderful stuff! Is there any way to determine whether these aspects will mean vacation or something less relaxing? This is somthing to consider for the future. Robert Parry: The '06 Stakes Just Got Raised http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/070106X.shtml "The narrow margin of the US Supreme Court’s rebuke to George W. Bush on military tribunals highlights the stakes on the table for the November 2006 Congressional elections," writes Robert Parry. "It is a strong possibility that if the Republicans retain control of the US Congress in the November 2006 elections, Bush will get to fill at least one more Supreme Court vacancy." Lynda, I've used your book for years and find it highly accurate in giving extra information that the planets alone sometimes leave open for interpretation. The sabians are especially useful when interpreting yods...the midpoint of the sextile = the sabian rounded up. In this case the sabian gives tremendous insight on the best (or worst) way to work with the yod, to reap it's benefits (or not). Many times I have created a chart for say an important meeting, added some asteroids which represent the names of the people involved or asteroids that describe the situation and look for yods which, when asteroids are added, are more frequent than when only planets are used. The sabians in the yods always give me a very accurate feel for meeting or even predict the outcome. The sabians are just wonderful!! As for looking for the Furious Storm of revolt that doesn't seem to be happening, perhaps since it is about Baby Bush's chart, we should consult the "caution" section of the sabian. I've found this section particularily accurate when the sabian is for a person who is emotionally high strung, dishonest, self-centered, delusional, etc. For those who don't have one of your books nearby here's what the caution for Cancer 27 says: "Wrongly believing that you are in control of the uncontrollable. Enjoyment of emotional storms and turmoil. Lots of noise that erupts out of nowhere. Whipping things up. Life-threatening behavior. Confrontations. Stormfronts. Social unheavals. Disturbing or violent reactions. Domestic violence." Wow..sounds like our baby emperor, doesn't it?! And "who or what are the Gang of Robbers"? Once again the caution "works" for Baby's chart. For the benefit of those without Lynda's book, Libra 19 says: "Gaining unfair advantage at someone else's expense. Finding it hard to trust anything. Difficult hidden energy that may erupt into conscienousness. Feeling that someone is going to "get" you. Hiding in the shadows. Locks and shutters that prevent true relationships. Unbalanced mental states. Paranoia. Distrusting life." Need I say more? Lynda THANK YOU for such a valuable tool. Anybody run into an email address for this man? An all-American Hero! Can you imagine how proud the Founders would be of him? Standing up for our Constitution and our Republic? Outside of Lt. Cdr. Charles Swift age (44) I cannot find a birthdate (yet) shylurker, but he is certainly a hero this weekend. Perkins Coie is a very good and pretty honorable firm, I'm impressed he used them to help on this case. It was an interesting ruling and may have had the effect of stopping Congress from giving this administration a free hand in the military commission deciding if their are terrorists when they have already said they were. I heard that something like 10 had been charged and the rest at Gitmo are sitting in limbo after 6 years and I don't think we even know what happened to the group rounded up in the US and put into prison here. Where are they? The Congress needs to go over this ruling very carefully before they jump in and declare Bush King of the World. Posted by: Sally on July 2, 2006 07:05 AMI saw Swift on Cspan last night. Yes he is impressive! According to Al Rodgers at DailyKos Sy Hersh may be breaking a big feature on CNN's Late Edition. Hmmmmm Thank you Sally for bringing Lynda to our attention. I loved the site and the Sabian symbols are just awesome. Years ago I heard what my sun sign symbol meant: 28-29 deg Virgo I was very impressed with that message and I believe I was born to seek out truth and it has been the overriding theme in my life. Posted by: Laurie on July 2, 2006 02:20 PMShy, I saw Lt. Cdr. Charles Swift give his news conference after the ruling. His eyes were just flickering sunshine. He said something to the effect that when the Constitution is followed, we always do and always will win. I rally liked him. He's a fighter. Posted by: Pat C on July 2, 2006 02:51 PMHi to all and thank you for the welcome! and thanks to Lovi for all you said, it's appreciated. Those more 'negative' interps of the Symbols really do resonate on so many levels. Lt. Cdr. Charles Swift is definitely to be admired for his stance on that horrid camp in Cuba. What a shocking thing they're doing to those people, and without any proof or real justification. One certainly wonders who the true war criminals are. Australia has one inmate at Gitmo - David Hicks. It's awful beyond words to contemplate his situation. The Australian government has abandoned him to this awful incarceration. How Hicks hasn't completely lost his mind is beyond me, if, indeed, he hasn't. Two Men Placed Under Arrest and the Gang of Robbers are certainly showing themselves here. Thank God some sanity is coming through! Posted by: Lynda Hill on July 2, 2006 03:03 PM* Cosmos & Psyche It's not every day that a really exciting astrology book comes out. Sometimes you have to wait 30 years. ... Few people would call Cosmos and Psyche by Richard Tarnas an introductory work, but I do. In this brand new book, 30 years in the writing & which came out about 2 mos ago, Tarnas introduces us to the subject of astrology starting with the foundations of why it works, incl exploring the phenomenon of "synchronicity" as documented (not theorized) by Carl Jung in the early 20th C. Synchronicity is when an event or personal experience in life is strikingly symbolic, & relates to some deep inner process we are going through at the time. From there, Tarnas moves onto archetypes, which are basically living symbols shared by much or all of the human race & which, together, form much of the psyche. Anyone who has seen a tarot deck has been introduced to archetypes. Working from this very solid ground of 20th C psychology, Tarnas begins the discussion of astrology. I was expecting a book on planetary cycles & long phases of history. I was not surprised to see his excellent discussions of biographies & the ways people express their charts &, from these examples, change the world. ... http://cainer.com/ericfrancis/eric.html Joanna a book was written in the late 50's on Jung's theory of syncronicity, both he and Einstein worked on the theory. You are so right, they used the I-Ching, Tarot, Astrology, runes, etc. I found the book in an out of print book store in the early 70's, about the time I begin my own studies in physics, metaphysics, energy, the use of energy, etc. I foolishly loaned that book to someone who moved and never returned it and in fact said he had lost it. I have seen several books since then on the explanation of those Jung/Einstein experiments but they weren't as good as the original book. I am really looking forward to reading your suggestion Joanna. If you are aware of syncronicity it's not hard to see how it works, and to see it work, in your own life and the world at large. It is definitely one of the keys to slipping out of this reality of horrendous chaos, into a new reality. It's part of the "wave" Posted by: Sally on July 2, 2006 04:14 PMFirst, I want to thank Lynda for posting her article here. I have always used the Sabian Symbols to see the inner soul in a chart and most important as a symbolic guide and tool to glean the hidden meaning in a stellium conjunction of three or more planets clumped together in one sign -- and making it difficult to see which one of the planets expresses the stelliums' dominant conscious function. A few days ago, Sally pointed out that it was the USSC's chart and not the US's natal chart that held the historical planetary meaning for their astonishing decision to curb the Bush Administration's power grab -- over constitutional rule of law for military courts and international treaties. I am very interested now in trying to attempt to get a rectified true ascendant for the USSC's chart as well as delve a bit more deeply into this chart's Pluto @ 17 + Aquarius -- more-so since the August, 06 Saturn/ Neptune opposition will be partile conjunct and opposed in the 17+ Leo/Aquarius polarity. There are very ominous rumors floating about that Stevens may retire -- opening the door for Bush to appointment another right wing wacko judge to the high court. This would stack the deck and the bench for the next 25 years w/ justices who have a fascistic mind set when it comes to expanding presidential powers (OHMYGODESSNOITCAN'THAPPENAGAIN!!) Other than establishing it, Article III of the U.S. Constitution spells out neither the specific duties, powers nor organization of the Supreme Court. "[t]he judicial Power of the United States, shall be vested in one Supreme Court, and in such inferior Courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish." Instead, the Constitution left it to Congress and to the Justices of the Court itself to develop the authorities and operations of the entire Judicial Branch of government. The very first bill introduced in the United States Senate was the Judiciary Act of 1789. It divided the country in 13 judicial districts, which were further organized into the Eastern, Middle, and Southern "circuits." The 1789 Act called for the Supreme Court to consist of a Chief Justice and only five Associate Justices, and for the Court to meet, or "sit" in the Nation's Capital. For the first 101 years of its service, Supreme Court Justices were required to "ride circuit," holding court twice a year in each of the 13 judicial districts. The Act also created the position of U.S. Attorney General and assigned the power to nominate Supreme Court justices to the President of the United States with the approval of the Senate. The First Court "Free will is the ability to do gladly that which I must do." - CG Jung Posted by: JoannaOregon on July 2, 2006 04:45 PMShylurker, thanks for missposting that link on the last thread.......that was way COOL about the Military justice winning out on the supremes ruling that bush overstepped in guano bay....very cool.
* Gitmo win likely cost Navy lawyer his career ... Swift thinks his military career is coming to an end. The 44 y/o Judge Advocate Gen officer, who was recently named one of the 100 most influential lawyers in the country by The Natl Law Journal, was passed over for promotion last year as the high-profile case was making headlines around the world. "I may be one of the most influential lawyers in America," the Seattle U Law School grad said, "but I won't be in the military much longer. That irony did strike me." ... http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/276109_swift01.html Posted by: JoannaOregon on July 2, 2006 08:44 PM* The 2004 Election Kennedy report ignites controversy ... Kennedy, meanwhile, is preparing to up the ante on those he believes abetted the GOP's electoral theft. In July, the outspoken atty plans to file "whistle-blower" lawsuits against two leading manufacturers of electronic voting machines. According to Kennedy, company insiders are prepared to testify that the firms knowingly made false claims when they sold their voting systems to the govt--misrepresenting the accuracy, reliability & security of machines that will be used by 72 million voters this Nov. "This is a unique way to try & stop these vendors," Kennedy tells Rolling Stone. "In both cases, our whistle-blowers are familiar with security problems that were well known by the vendors but concealed from election officials during the bidding process. Because we're relying on 'inside' knowledge, it is a far more frightening prospect to the company than a traditional lawsuit might be. And if we prove our case, we will hit the corpos the only place they feel it: in their pocketbooks." ... http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10733572/the_2004_election Posted by: JoannaOregon on July 2, 2006 08:49 PMLynda, I learned about the Sabian Symbols so many years ago that now I keep the book in a plastic bag....the pages are falling out. This was refreshing, this article, and hopefully the symbols can become a bigger part of our postings here....that would be welcome. I'm not sure if anyone else on the board is feeling this, but the last 10 days it feels as if I entered a 'tired' space...no energy, feeling the weightiness of everything (that square perhaps, but it is the first time I've actually felt it). Then I as I asked others, it turned out everyone felt tired! Reading Sabian symbols gave me some respit.... Sally, I send you and your daughter some good thoughts and hope for the future.... Posted by: judiGem on July 2, 2006 09:16 PM* Poll: ["Good"] News Fails to Boost [bushaholic]'s Job Approval In a new TIME survey, Americans say [rez] is performing poorly & that the country is increasingly on the wrong track http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1209851,00.html Back in 1973 there was a truly remarkable book published by Jules Archer, “The Plot To Seize the White House.” The book had only one printing, and it is a rare collectors item today that will cost you hundreds of dollars to purchase if you are fortunate enough to find a copy. Oliver Stone once tried to turn it into a film but was unable to get the financing to pull it off. This book is not a work of fiction. It is about a larger-than-life U.S. Marine Corps general named Smedley Darlington Butler, who foiled a plot by wealthy American industrialists in the early 1930’s to topple FDR and install a fascist dictatorship right here in the U.S. of A. The book reads like a thriller, but it is a true story that is fully documented. The identities of some of the conspirators were (and still are) household names. I just discovered that the entire book is now available on-line (it is a fairly short read). Since I believe every American should be aware of this frightening chapter in our history I pass the link on to you with my compliments. Perhaps you can pass it on as well. Who knows, if enough people learn about this book it might even get a long-overdue re-print, and Stone or someone else might finally bring it to the big screen. Available in full here: http://www.clubhousewreckards.com/plot/plottoseizethewhitehouse.htm Posted by: Pat C on July 3, 2006 12:47 AMPat C....can't wait to read your link. a friend just sent this: The 23rd Qualm And of course, Pat, one of the links: (going back to that quote GHWB made to Sara McClendon: If the American people knew what the bush family had done to this country they would scalp us (loose quote)...Update: Interesting discussion linking the Bush family (Prescott Bush) with the plotters. I am a Butler by descent...I have seen Smedly Darlington Butler's name before while searching, and never knew what it was he did. Strangely, my great grandfather was the first mayor of Darlington, WI, and his father was named Butler (first name) in honor of his mother, who was a Butler. (Quakers) Posted by: on July 3, 2006 02:57 AMThis was in the early 1930"s....from the article on the plot to seize the whitehouse...nothing has changed....the vets still being 'used' for political reasons. Butler declared that he believed that democracy was in danger from growing antidemocratic forces within the country and that he planned to appeal to the nation's veterans to unite against this threat. At the same time he wanted to alert them to the risk of being dragged into another war by the propaganda of organizations camouflaged with patriotic trappings. Talk about suspense: boy, there are just no accidents...this from the plot: and (I think most of us have learned along the way that FDR was hated by his social contemporaries, but certainly, I never knew that there was a real plot!)....and notice the name of the conspirator....another kind of a "show me the money" MacGuire "(Jerry) MacGuire took his departure against the background of a steadily rising chorus of hatred for "that cripple in the White House" by big-business leaders. It was reflected in the anti-Roosevelt slant of both news and editorials in the business-oriented press. In the eyes of America's industrialists and bankers, the President, if not an actual secret Communist, was dedicated to destroying the nation's capitalist economy by the New Deal, which they labeled "creeping socialism." What blows me away, other than the fact that we are at this same crossroads, only further down the track, is that my grandmother, Jessie , divorced from my grandfather, ended up in Paducah, KY, as editor of a rightwing anti FDR, anti socialism magazine!!!! She hated democrats completely....as my rightwing cousin in Oregon bleated out to me when GWB was selected, she would have disowned you, you liberal, lesbian, latte drinking vegetarian librul! (well...I'm neither a vegetarian or a lesbian (and he was serious)....but the rest is true.) If we are 72 years down the road from this plot (help here astrologers, someone just wrote about a 72 year cycle)....and the Jerry MacGuires of the world having multiplied tremendously, and having NOT an FDR in the WH, was this all in vain, or will the Smedly Butlers have multiplied also? Is our 44 yr old Lt. Cmdr. Charles Swift of the breed of Butler? * 'War Is a Racket' Excerpt from a speech delivered in 1933 by General Smedley Darlington Butler, USMC. General Butler was the recipient of two Congressional Medals of Honor - one of only two Marines so honored. ... http://www.twf.org/News/Y2001/0911-Racket.html Posted by: JoannaOregon on July 3, 2006 05:14 AMI haven't checked snopes on this (been busy watching Mexico). If true, this quote needs to be widely disseminated: The truth is useless. You have to understand this right now. You can't deposit the truth in a bank. You can't buy groceries with the truth. You can't pay rent with the truth. The truth is a useless commodity that will hang around your neck like an albatross -- all the way to the homeless shelter. And if you think that the million or so people in this country that are really interested in the truth about their government can support people who would tell them the truth, you got another think coming. Because the million or so people in this country that are truly interested in the truth don't have any money. And to quote Jack Nicholson...YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH! Shy, did you read any of the Butler piece? it is like a script from 100 years ago being recyled with the present bunch of fascists...it is just amazing. Joanna...Butler actually could have had more Con. medals of honor....but he turned at least one of them down. Finally was forced to take it. Amazing guy....I Especially for a Quaker (although one of the touchest Civil war generals was also a Butler...he had to renounce himself from his meeting because of his war role...then rejoin when the war was over. ANd Butler was a LEO. Posted by: on July 3, 2006 05:46 AMDear anonymous poster at 5:46. Although I've not read the Butler reports thoroughly, I am certainly aware of them. If anyone can confirm/refute that quote from Jeb, I'd be mighty grateful. I don't believe this. Mars is opposing Mexico Mars today and Neptune is very close to the Natal Mars in Mexico's chart (17 degrees Aquarius) I don't believe it's this close, but I do believe the election is covered with lies. The powers that be do not want Obrador, and Fox news is now calling them the "conservative and leftest candidates" http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060703/wl_nm/mexico_election_dc_16 Posted by: Sally on July 3, 2006 05:57 AMTravieso or NEObuckeye, if you're tuned in, could you please let us know if the poorer regions' election results have been reported yet? The results I'm tracking just have overall numbers, not by region. Thnx. Posted by: shylurker on July 3, 2006 06:04 AMWell, yes, Cap'n Sally. These election results are a wonderment, aren't they? Looks like they're gonna end up with Obrador just a wee bit short of the projections from the exit polls. Posted by: shylurker on July 3, 2006 06:12 AMShy, got the email on the Jeb post...person who sent it is checking it out with Snopes. I had read it before... chelck this out from the Butler saga:
This Tory group, through its wealth, its power and its influence, has obtained a firm grip on our government, to the detriment of our people and the well-being of our nation. We will prove to the world that we meant what we said a century and a half ago-that this government was instituted not only to secure to our people the rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, but the right to eat and to all our willing millions the right to work. Sally, watched PBS piece on Mexico on Fri night...and it was pretty apparent that the Business class wants nothing to do with Obrador's people... same old same old....Pat C., once again, thanks for posting that link, it is stunning. Posted by: judiGem on July 3, 2006 07:01 AMHi Lynda "As Jeb Bush once told retired Naval Intelligence Officer Al Martin (cited in Bushwhacked, Sept 2002, by Uri Dowbenko)..." Them old bushies sure know how to raise 'em, eh? No wonder they're all druggies & alkies... goes along with the territory. No wonder poor Noelle bush's face in her criminal mugshot for drugs looked so sad.
Thanks again to Philomena and Sally re Sibly. Nevertheless was surprised that Sally wrote "...this (the Supreme Court decision)doesn't actually affect the US. Also did some work on the Nov elections looking for the revolution that's needed to win back at least one of the houses. Sally, looks like Ray Merriman is also a fan of July 2. Well at least makes mention of it. I've almost completed an article on the 4th July Independance chart for the U.S. It's up at my weblog at www.sabiansymbols.typepad.com - it's not yet finished but will be soon. Shylurker - you have your Sun at Cancer 30? A great placement for not sitting back and just taking it ;) ! Here's a site for David Hicks, the only Australian held at Guantanomo Bay. If he's still sane, then he's a better person than I am. Nearly 5 years of the kind of treatment and lack of rights he's been receiving and I'd be a mere puddle on the floor. They can't commit him for a crime in Australia as he hasn't committed one. What a shocking inditement of the US and Australian Governments. http://www.fairgofordavid.org/htmlfiles/main.htm Best from DownUnder Hope the storm hit GW Bush soon. How's the country trusting a man who plays fast and loose( says one thing and does something), there'a an urgent need to fire him and save the country. Posted by: candacejune on July 3, 2006 11:09 AMCancer 27 sabian symbol short version: Hope it comes soon! Or maybe it already came in the form of Katrina? Posted by: bbuster on July 3, 2006 01:07 PMhttp://www.gregpalast.com/section/articles STEALING IT IN FRONT OF YOUR EYES Gore v. Bush. You're most welcome Judi. I wish it were "just a movie". Posted by: Pat C on July 3, 2006 01:46 PMhttp://www.silive.com/news/advance/index.ssf?/base/news/1151068538261730.xml&coll=1 http://www.grannypeacebrigade.org/ Posted by: Pat C on July 3, 2006 02:13 PMOn the Fourth, Read the Declaration of Impeachment Veterans for Peace has drafted a Declaration of Impeachment using nothing but excerpts from the Declaration of Independence (plus a few words in parentheses). It reads as follows, and should be read at picnics and protests on the Fourth of July: …whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. …all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations…design(s) to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. …The history of the present King (George)…is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny…To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world. § He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance. § He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power. § He has…deprive(ed) us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury…transport(ed) us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences § He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us… § He is at this time transporting large Armies…to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation. § He has constrained our fellow Citizens…to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands. A (President) whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people. We, therefore…do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People…solemnly publish and declare, That these…Free and Independent (People)…are Absolved from all Allegiance to the (Bush Administration), and that all political connection between them and (this Administration), is and ought to be totally dissolved…And for the support of this Declaration…we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.” ______________________________________________ Note that the colonists did nto just write these words. They also fought and died for them. Supporting our troops and working to ensure that they not have died in vain are notions that no longer apply to the soldiers who died in the fields around my house in Virginia. The statute of limitations has expired, and the 4,435 who died to rid America of a King George are now in fact required – as a matter of patriotic duty – to have died in vain. In vain their deaths to free us of a unitary executive. In vain their deaths to establish freedom of assembly. In vain their deaths to separate church and state. In vain their deaths to create freedom of speech. In vain their deaths in the cause of freedom from unreasonable search and seizure. In vain their blood spilled in rivers to establish the right to freedom from cruel and unusual punishment. In vain their ultimate sacrifices to create a representative democracy based on checks and balances. In vain the heartache of their families suffered in the name of an end to empire. It's interesting to look at the Bush's in the light of the son being groomed by the father. GWB's Mars is at Virgo 10: Two Heads Looking Out and Beyond the Shadows (is anyone there???) and his'quest degree' (the degree after) is Virgo 11: A Boy Moulded in His Mother's Aspirations for Him. This can mean 'father', of course, and one can see the hand of the father on the till of the boat. Further, GWB's progressed Sun for the last year was going over Virgo 11, the Boy Moulded, having passed over his natal Mars in the last few years. And, as life would have it, Bush Snr has Virgo 11 ascendant - how apt is that? Further, Bush Snr has his progressed Mars at Virgo 10: Two Heads Looking Out and Beyond the Shadows and it will soon be moving onto Virgo 11: The Boy Moulded. Is this a little sick, or what? Perhaps he's a clone. BTW, the Two Heads of GWB's Mars indicates to me very strongly that he does wear a wire in his ear. Someone is feeding him those lines. Remember the slip up when another voice was recorded in the debates? It's too precious, if it weren't so damned serious... Greetings from DownUnder A friend just sent me this... http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/article1129827.ece Posted by: Lynda Hill on July 3, 2006 04:11 PMSorry Stan should have explained that statement better "Supreme Court decision on Gitmo doesn't affect the US" It does of course on an esoteric level or broader scale as it raises our hopes of a better justice system but the impact of their decision is for this administration headed by GWB and the Gitmo "detainees." Those will be the people who personnally reap benefits or disaster from the decision. Posted by: Sally on July 3, 2006 06:33 PMAs Independence Day approaches this article by Tom Hartmann is well worth a re-read. Published on Monday, July 19, 2004 by CommonDreams.org "THE GHOST OF VICE PRESIDENT WALLACE WARNS: "IT CAN HAPPEN HERE" (As the 1983 American Heritage Dictionary noted, fascism is: "A system of government that exercises a dictatorship of the extreme right, typically through the merging of state and business leadership, together with belligerent nationalism.") "The really dangerous American fascists," Wallace wrote, "are not those who are hooked up directly or indirectly with the Axis. The FBI has its finger on those. The dangerous American fascist is the man who wants to do in the United States in an American way what Hitler did in Germany in a Prussian way. The American fascist would prefer not to use violence. His method is to poison the channels of public information. With a fascist the problem is never how best to present the truth to the public but how best to use the news to deceive the public into giving the fascist and his group more money or more power." In this, Wallace was using the classic definition of the word "fascist" - the definition Mussolini had in mind when he claimed to have invented the word. (It was actually Italian philosopher Giovanni Gentile who wrote the entry in the Encyclopedia Italiana that said: "Fascism should more appropriately be called corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power." Mussolini, however, affixed his name to the entry, and claimed credit for it.) Word on the internets is that Obrador is keeping his options open on challenging the election results. Merc's about to retrograde. What do y'all foresee?
Watch Us, Wiretap Us, Search Us, Jail Us ... By PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS What explains the gullibility of Americans, a gullibility that has mired the US in disastrous wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and which promises war with Iran, North Korea and a variety of other targets if neoconservatives continue to have their way? Part of the explanation is that millions of conservatives are thrilled at the opportunity to display their patriotism and to show their support for their country. Bush's rhetoric is perfectly designed to appeal to this desire. "You are with us or against us" elicits a blind and unquestioning response from people determined to wear their patriotism on their sleeves. "You are with us or against us" vaccinates Americans against factual reality and guarantees public acceptance of administration propaganda. Another part of the explanation is that emotional appeals have grown the stronger as the ability of educated people to differentiate fact from rhetoric declines. The Bush administration blamed 9/11 on foreign intelligence failures; yet, the administration has convinced about half of the public that mass surveillance of American citizens is the solution! more http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts06292006.html Paul Craig Roberts was Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan administration. He was Associate Editor of the Wall Street Journal editorial page and Contributing Editor of National Review. He is coauthor of The Tyranny of Good Intentions.He can be reached at: paulcraigroberts@yahoo.com Posted by: on July 4, 2006 12:37 AMhttp://www.atlantaprogressivenews.com/news/0064.html APN Chat with Rep. John Lewis on the Voting Rights Act 'I'm shocked, I'm surprised, and I'm also very 'I think the Voting Rights Act was good and necessary Congressman Lewis's comments are in response to the HR 9, sponsored by Rep. Sensenbrenner (R-WI), has 152 On May 10, 2006, HR 9 passed the House Judiciary More.... Posted by: on July 4, 2006 12:45 AMShy, right now Calderon (Aug. 18, 1962 "energetically" seems to be in the cat-bird seat. Jupiter is getting ready to turn direct in a trine to his Chiron/Jupiter, sextile his Pluto and very close to a conjunct to his Neptune (a dream come true) and transiting Saturn conjunct his NN (something new for him) Obrador (Nov. 13, 1953) doesn't have anything close to those kind of positive aspects, however he does have a natal Mercury retrograde in his chart and sometimes a retrograde Mercury works to the benefit of a person like that, plus Mercury goes retrograde in a close square (but not quite there) to his Scorpio Venus/Saturn conjunction at 2 degrees. When I look at his chart that's the positive I see, Mercury going retrograde, and he has a natal Mercury retrograde. Nonetheless, Calderon is in a good position. transiting Saturn will be opposing Mexico's Sun, providing either a new beginning or a more repressive regime, no matter what ultimately they will not be happy with their choice. Posted by: Sally on July 4, 2006 02:56 AM Dear AWers, I have much to share, and many questions for fellow healers along the road, but I can't do it now. And man are the existential questions flying off the wall right now!?!!! The last Saturn Return was during the Lebanese Civil War and the questions never got answered then either. Her stroke happened at 100 years and 5 months, less two days. It happened so quickly...one minute I'm talking to her, the next minute she has crashed head backwards onto the kitchen floor and I'm freaking out! I've got plently of reasons to sue the whole medical profession here in Princeton, but I haven't got the energy right now. Thank you Lynda for your article on the Sabian Symbols. Fantastic read. And as always, all of you. Thanks. Until later... Posted by: Beasley on July 4, 2006 03:18 AMSending light, love and prayers to you and your belowed mother, Beasley. May G-d tenderly hold your mother & you in a loving embrace, support you, and make your lives easier. You are so blessed to be together at this time. Sharon Posted by: Sharon on July 4, 2006 04:02 AMi meant beloved, of course Posted by: Sharon on July 4, 2006 04:17 AMOh, Beasley! Bless you, dear heart. Your mother is blessed for she has you. Light and love to you--over and over!!!!! Posted by: shylurker on July 4, 2006 05:01 AMThank you, Capt'n Sally, for looking at the Obrador situation and letting us know what's there astrologically. Sigh. Gonna read the Declaration, Constitution and Bill of Rights first thing in the morning. I do that every year. Oh, may the Founders' sacrifices, tireless efforts, goals and visions guide and inspire us on and on and on! Yes. Shy I think that is a wonderful thing to do on the 4th, and wonderful energy to put out there. Beasley, Bless you and your mother, this is a hard road for you I know and thank heavens for your amazing strength. Posted by: Sally on July 4, 2006 05:58 AMThank you, Lynda! How wonderful to see an article from you. I purchased your fabulous book on Sabian symbols and was fortunate to see one of your lectures in the USA a while back. I'm glad to see your posting so that others can experience your brilliant viewpoint and wisdom. Thank you all for your wonderful posts! I am waiting for my fellow Americans to wake up, but it's discouraging. Too many people think the 4th of July is only about ribs and hamburgers......... Posted by: Donna on July 4, 2006 06:08 AMWhy We Should Expect D.C. Dems to Fight Lamont “The explosive announcement today by Sen. Joe Lieberman telling Connecticut that he is leaving the Democratic Party gives us a very rare glimpse into exactly how the Democratic Party in Washington views Democratic Party voters. In the last 24 hours, both Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-NY) and Chris Dodd (D-CT) have refused to commit to supporting the eventual winner of the August 8th Connecticut Democratic primary. Schumer is head of the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee while Dodd is the other sitting Senator in Connecticut where this primary election is happening - and understanding their behavior is critical for those of us who want to see America’s democracy restored. Only in very rare instances has a national or state Democratic Party refused to support their party’s own nominee. These instances are usually when the nominee is someone so totally extreme that supporting them would be antithetical to what the party stands for. So, for instance, the party threatened to not support KKK member David Duke should he have won the party primary for his runs for office in Louisiana”….Cont… http://davidsirota.com/index.php/2006/07/03/why-we-should-expect-dc-dems-to-fight-lamont/ Posted by: M. on July 4, 2006 06:47 AM* LONDON (AFP) - People in Britain view the US as a vulgar, crime-ridden society obsessed with money and led by an incompetent [rez] whose Iraq policy is failing, according to a newspaper poll. The US is no longer a symbol of hope to Britain & the British no longer have confidence in their transatlantic [anglo] cousins to lead global affairs, according to the poll pub'd in The Daily Telegraph. The YouGov poll found that 77% of respondents disagreed with the statement that the US is "a beacon of hope for the world". As Americans prepared to celebrate the 230th anniversary of their independence on Tue, the poll found that only 12% of Britons trust them to act wisely on the global stage. This is half the number who had faith in the Vietnam-scarred WH of 1975. A massive 83% of those questioned said that the US doesn't care what the rest of the world thinks. ... http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060703/od_afp/britainuspopularitypoll;_ylt=Am8OCAPvdT9ZFR8x40pRCphvaA8F;_ylu=X3oDMTA0cDJlYmhvBHNlYwM- Posted by: JoannaOregon on July 4, 2006 01:52 PMUSSC Pluto 18 Aquarius -- In Dane Rudhyars Astrological Mandala -- The cycle of transformation and its 360 Symbolic Phases interprets the image for 18* Aquarius in phase 318 as: "A Man's secret motives are being publicly unmasked." Keyword is UNMASKING! Did Bush commit war crimes? How many among the crowd in Washington DC today would be able to make this pledge? "we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor." http://www.archives.gov/national-archives-experience/charters/declaration_transcript.html Posted by: shylurker on July 4, 2006 03:20 PMFrom FireDogLake Blog President Bush told the special prosecutor in the CIA leak case that he directed Vice President Dick Cheney to personally lead an effort to counter allegations made by former Ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV that his administration had misrepresented intelligence information to make the case to go to war with Iraq, according to people familiar with the president's statement. But Bush told investigators that he was unaware that Cheney had directed I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, the vice president's chief of staff, to covertly leak the classified information to the media instead of releasing it to the public after undergoing the formal governmental declassification processes. Bush also said during his interview with prosecutors that he had never directed anyone to disclose the identity of then-covert CIA officer Valerie Plame, Wilson's wife. Bush said he had no information that Cheney had disclosed Plame's identity or directed anyone else to do so. Yes, Philomena, that unmasking degree also had Neptune transit over it. In the last few years Neptune has passed over Aquarius 16: A Big Businessman at His Desk and Neptune is retrograding back over The Forest Fire and it stations on the Man Being UnMasked at a Masquerade. I reckon some reckoning is coming. Uranus is currently giving us something to consider. It's at Pisces 15: An Army Officer Drilling His Men in a Simulated Attack.
Happy 4th of July The 4th of July stands for so many conflicting emotions this year. The 4th is when we celebrate our nation's community of like spirits, only we are finding out there are not those "like" spirits and because of that some are uncomfortable honoring a country or flag that has become so sullied even our "Mother" country England is ashamed and disgusted with us. The Constitution has become so shredded in the last few years it hardly resembles the document or ideal of 1776. Our Justice system is so in tatters it's barely hanging on by a thread as judicial decisions are based more on politics than justice, and our country's President, the highest office in the land; promising to uphold and defend the Constitution of the US and to abide by the laws. He does neither and no one holds him accountable. All this makes for a sad 4th of July. One thing we do have to be happy about is the "ideal" the hope we can make this country in the image we dreamed. In about 41 hours Jupiter will go direct in Scorpio, in keeping with the Sabian Symbols, 9 degrees Scorpio is "A dentist at work" or "overcoming the negative results of social practices and ego-cravings." and the Moon will stand at 13 Scorpio "telephone linemen at work installing new connections" "the need to establish new channels of communications." This 4th of July will bring us a need to repair and open up, not impossible tasks for a people who once made America great and can do so again. So Happy 4th of July and instead of the refrain "God Bless America" I want to take another line from that song for this year "stand beside her and guide her," we need that now. Posted by: Sally on July 4, 2006 06:17 PMThank you, Sally ! that was beautiful and touched me deeply. I am making that line my prayer for this season. Thank you again. Posted by: clymela on July 4, 2006 06:48 PMYes, Capt'n Sally: what clymela said. Posted by: shylurker on July 4, 2006 08:00 PMI have no problem w/ burning the *made in the Peoples Republic of China* US FLAG!!! Take that --Congress. psst -- I am exercising my first amendment right to free of expression.
Happy "Kick Out The Old Corrupt Government And Start A New Nation" Day! Well, Stevie Wonder sang at the DC celebration of the 4th of July. He did a series of his songs. As he sang I wondered how they got him to sing during this administration, but at the end, it was all worthwhile, at least for me. He sang Superstition. The irony was just perfect as he sang "When you believe in things you don't understand, you'll suffer!". I thought of all those calico cats, and so many other weird fundamentalist quirks, and it made my heart happy to see him singing to the Capital of the US. Posted by: Pat C on July 5, 2006 02:53 AMPulitzer-prize winning journalist Nicholas D. Kristof has written a scorching attack on Fox News, the media--and his own paper. # When I was covering the war in Iraq, we reporters would sometimes tune to Fox News and watch, mystified, as it purported to describe how Iraqis loved Americans. Such coverage (backed by delusional Journal editorials baffling to anyone who was actually in Iraq) misled conservatives about Iraq from the beginning. In retrospect, the real victims of Fox News weren't the liberals it attacked but the conservatives who believed it. # Read the full, registration-restricted article here. http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article13849.htm A New Declaration of Independence By Emma Goldman Published in Mother Earth, Vol. IV, no. 5, July 1909. When, in the course of human development, existing institutions prove inadequate to the needs of man, when they serve merely to enslave, rob, and oppress mankind, the people have the eternal right to rebel against, and overthrow, these institutions. The mere fact that these forces--inimical to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness--are legalized by statute laws, sanctified by divine rights, and enforced by political power, in no way justifies their continued existence. We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all human beings, irrespective of race, color, or sex, are born with the equal right to share at the table of life; that to secure this right, there must be established among men economic, social, and political freedom; we hold further that government exists but to maintain special privilege and property rights; that it coerces man into submission and therefore robs him of dignity, self-respect, and life. The history of the American kings of capital and authority is the history of repeated crimes, injustice, oppression, outrage, and abuse, all aiming at the suppression of individual liberties and the exploitation of the people. A vast country, rich enough to supply all her children with all possible comforts, and insure well-being to all, is in the hands of a few, while the nameless millions are at the mercy of ruthless wealth gatherers, unscrupulous lawmakers, and corrupt politicians. Sturdy sons of America are forced to tramp the country in a fruitless search for bread, and many of her daughters are driven into the street, while thousands of tender children are daily sacrificed on the altar of Mammon. The reign of these kings is holding mankind in slavery, perpetuating poverty and disease, maintaining crime and corruption; it is fettering the spirit of liberty, throttling the voice of justice, and degrading and oppressing humanity. It is engaged in continual war and slaughter, devastating the country and destroying the best and finest qualities of man; it nurtures superstition and ignorance, sows prejudice and strife, and turns the human family into a camp of Ishmaelites. We, therefore, the liberty-loving men and women, realizing the great injustice and brutality of this state of affairs, earnestly and boldly do hereby declare, That each and every individual is and ought to be free to own himself and to enjoy the full fruit of his labor; that man is absolved from all allegiance to the kings of authority and capital; that he has, by the very fact of his being, free access to the land and all means of production, and entire liberty of disposing of the fruits of his efforts; that each and every individual has the unquestionable and unabridgeable right of free and voluntary association with other equally sovereign individuals for economic, political, social, and all other purposes, and that to achieve this end man must emancipate himself from the sacredness of property, the respect for man-made law, the fear of the Church, the cowardice of public opinion, the stupid arrogance of national, racial, religious, and sex superiority, and from the narrow puritanical conception of human life. And for the support of this Declaration, and with a firm reliance on the harmonious blending of man's social and individual tendencies, the lovers of liberty joyfully consecrate their uncompromising devotion, their energy and intelligence, their solidarity and their lives. Posted by: Pat C on July 5, 2006 03:40 AMSaw fireworks in New Orleans over the Mississippi River tonight. Somehow they found the money. There are always better ways to spend money but it was good for the people's morale. My husband (and I, somewhat, mainly as an editor) are working on a Brad Pitt sponsored competition to produce sustainable, affordable housing for one of the flooded areas of the city - the deadline is in the next day or so. The people involved are so brilliant, creative, inspired. One team has desired something so sustainable, it is totally self-constained and includes a pumping station to pump silt into the soil and raise the city. Not sure there's enough time but it would lift it up to 3 inches a year. The human spirit! Creative and indomitable! I also saw "The Lost City" today, Andy Garcia's film about the Cuban Revolution. Having lived in Miami for 30 years, I deeply relate to it. I have many Cuban friends whose parents were jailed and tortured. Cuban was between a rock and a hard place. Batista abused his power and along came Che and Fidel and they were worse! The Emma Goldman composition is wonderful - thank you Pat C. Posted by: Sharon on July 5, 2006 04:33 AMThis, folks, pretty much sums it all up for me: If you agree, do give it widest circulation. http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20060630_truthdigger_week_john_paul_stevens/ Truthdigger of the Week: John Paul Stevens Truthdig salutes the 86-year-old Supreme Court justice who wrote the majority opinion in Hamdan v. Rumsfeld, which struck down the military tribunals Bush set up to try Guantanamo detainees. But more important, this decision, in the words of a Yale law professor, “effectively undermines the Administration’s strongest claims about Presidential power,” and may constitute the legal framework necessary to halt the more egregious of Bush’s civil liberties-infringing programs—like warrantless wiretapping and holding terrorism suspects without trial. More.... Posted by: Pat C on July 5, 2006 01:17 PMhttp://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20060628_joe_conason_map/ Joe Conason: Staying the Course, Without a Map In the acrid debate over Iraq, the president’s supporters will say anything. They will question the patriotism of those who disagree with “staying the course.” They will insinuate cowardice on the part of those who would “cut and run.” Even though they themselves may have avoided military service, they will denigrate the records of decorated veterans like John Kerry and Jack Murtha. They will even accuse the war’s critics of providing aid and comfort to the enemy, which is the legal definition of treason. Then the White House will turn around after days of encouraging such vilification of their opponents and leak the commanding general’s optimistic plan to start withdrawing troops, which would proceed according to the same timetable proposed by those weak and pusillanimous Democrats. That is meant to reassure the majority of Americans, who realize that invading Iraq was a strategic error and a tragedy that must be concluded as soon as possible. More…. Posted by: Pat C on July 5, 2006 01:33 PMhttp://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060705/ts_nm/enron_lay_dc Enron founder Ken Lay dead of heart attack: report HOUSTON (Reuters) - Enron Corp. founder Ken Lay, who was convicted in May of fraud and conspiracy for his part in the Houston-based company's collapse into bankruptcy in 2001, has died of a heart attack at his vacation home in Colorado, a Houston television station reported on Wednesday. KHOU-TV, a CBS affiliate, said Lay suffered a massive heart attack. He was awaiting sentencing later this year and was expected to face a lengthy prison term for his convictions in the Enron collapse. Posted by: Pat C on July 5, 2006 03:36 PMThey took Lay to the hospital in Aspen at 3:10am, he could have been DOA then I don't know. He has some difficult aspects in his progressed and SA chart but the death chart has stationary Jupiter in an exact trine (to the minute) to his natal Venus in Pisces and Chiron is oppose his Chiron Posted by: Sally on July 5, 2006 04:45 PMPat C, all ~ sally how does one construct a "death chart" Posted by: on July 5, 2006 04:55 PMWednesday, July 5, 2006 | BREAKING: Ken Lay is Not Dead Ken Lay is not dead. He is already in a foreign country. This is according to a reading of the horary chart associated with his death (4:51 pm CED, Brussels, July 5, 2006). In one of the most carefully planned escapes in shadow government history, Lay disappeared, probably within the past 24 hours. The chart has Scorpio rising, apropos of the discussion. The Moon and Jupiter Rx have just risen and are in the 12th house, about to make a conjunction. This is nothing, if not mysterious -- no need to push it too hard. The ruler of the ascendant is Mars, which is in Leo and the 9th house. The ascendant ruler represents the first party to the question -- Mr. Lay. He does not appear to be anywhere nearby, as the 9th house represents travel of long distances. Magnificently, Mars is precisely opposite Neptune -- separating to an exactitude of three arc minutes. Neptune adds the factor of a huge fog, deception or unknowable possibility (echoed vividly by those 12th house Scorpio planets). This suggests a kind of crime of the century: that Neptune in Aquarius has proven many times that there is no story too outrageous for people to swallow. Regarding Mars in the 9th, we could propose that the 'long distance' of this house was to Kenny Boy's little place in hog heaven, were it not for another fact: the ruler of the 7th cusp, which is Taurus and thus Venus -- representing a partner or, in general, 'someone else', is found in the 8th house, the house of death. The syntax of this is not difficult to grasp: someone else is dead. First take is this is the body of the guy who is laying in for Kenny. My second take on this Venus 8th was that his wife would soon be joining him, as Venus is about to square Uranus in Pisces. Obviously, there was an escape house on an island somewhere; such is commonplace enough among the ultra-posh. And with all the resources of the Land of the Free to protect them, freedom is available. News prediction: "they," that is, the MSM, will float a story that proves the validity of the corpse, a kind of, "It really is Ken" story, with DNA or fingerprints -- affirming the question. That's the news. Now back to you. Sent via Planet Waves * Lieberman's been effectively kicked out of the Dem Party, after the tireless work of 1000s in Connecticut to elect a real Democrat in Ned Lamont. Take a look at the photo in this story--it's worth a million words. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/04/nyregion/04lieberman.html?_r=1&oref=slogin I thought I was nuts to doubt the death of Ken Lay and began reading the posts. To my surprise, I see everyone else is also doubting his death and charts have been done. It's global. http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/spiegel/0,1518,424875,00.html French Journalists "Demoralized and Muzzled" Political influence is threatening France's media freedom: courageous journalists are harassed and prosecuted, while insubordinate chief editors are fired. Posted by: Pat C on July 5, 2006 06:24 PMYou construct a death chart at the exact time and place of death. All I have is the time recorded when he was taken to the hospital and that was 3:10am, I have not heard if the Docs had a news conference giving the exact time of death. If it was a massive heart attack, he could have been DOA. The horary chart done by planet waves list 4:51 pm Brussels and horary is based on the exact time the astrologer receives the question. It's possible, but the Jupiter venus trine is often found in death charts and can be listed as a successful conlusion, a successful transition, a gift, etc. Horary is used for yes or no questions so I expect the astrologer in Brussels was asked at 4:51pm and his/her view is "no." and has listed the reasons why it was no. I don't know who the astrologer was or how good they are, but I am going to take a look later at their horary chart. It is possible with the money hidden at the Caymens for Lay that he was able to get someplace where he is hidden. One would have to check if they actually saw him in Aspen and then any plane taking off from Aspen in the last few days. Posted by: Sally on July 5, 2006 06:34 PMWhen he supposedly was to been brought to the hospital at 3:10am, Mercury was already retrograde if he didn't die, it will likely never be proven, unless he took off from Aspen on the 3rd or morning of the 4th before Mercury went retrograde. if he did die look to the stationary Jupiter trine the Venus. Posted by: Sally on July 5, 2006 06:44 PMFrom Salon: Anyone interested in the scope and importance of the Supreme Court's ruling in Hamdan should read mart lederman's article on Georgetown Law's blog: bTop Ten Myths About Hamdan, Geneva, and Interrogations When the Court issued its Hamdan decision last Thursday, I precipitously declared that the Court's ruling that Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions applies to the conflict against Al Qaeda was of much greater practical significance than the Court's ultimate holding with respect to military commissions. (See also my post here, identifying other important holdings in Hamdan not limited to the commission context.) Slowly but surely, defenders of the Administration's policies are beginning to agree, which is why we now see congressmen such as Senators McConnell and Graham signaling that they intend to introduce legislation to supersede Common Article 3. There may well be a pitched battle on this question in Congress soon. http://gulcfac.typepad.com/georgetown_university_law/2006/07/top_ten_myths_a_1.html Posted by: Pat C on July 5, 2006 06:49 PMhttp://www.democrats.org/a/2006/05/the_ties_that_b.php Enron's Ties to Bush Run Deep Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean issued the following statement after the guilty verdicts of Ken Lay and Jeffrey Skilling for their involvement in the Enron scandal: "Today's guilty verdicts are another victory against the Republican culture of corruption that led President Bush’s buddy Ken Lay, Jeffrey Skilling, Jack Abramoff, Representative Tom Delay and others to believe that they were above the law. The Enron scandal epitomizes the pay-to-play politics that has enveloped the Bush White House and Republican-controlled Congress. Ken Lay was defrauding his employees and investors but he had no problem keeping the Bush campaign and RNC flush in cash. Americans are ready for new leadership that puts the people's interests before the special interests. Democrats are united in our commitment to change the way business is done in Washington." THE TIES THAT BIND: Today, Enron founder Ken Lay was found guilty on six counts of conspiracy and fraud. A jury found that Lay helped engineer a conspiracy to artificially inflate Enron's profits, hide millions in losses and misrepresent the true nature of the company's finances. Until early 2004, Enron was President Bush's largest career patron and Ken Lay was a personal friend of President Bush. Now, Ken Lay is facing 20 to 30 years in jail for his role in one of America’s biggest corporate fraud scandals. More.... Posted by: Pat C on July 5, 2006 06:53 PMKen Lay in hiding?!? Wow - - talk about exit strategies. hmmmm wonder what skilling is thinking . . . ? Posted by: on July 5, 2006 07:20 PMThis was also posted on Salon. "The Pitkin, Colo., Sheriff’s Department said officers were called to Lay’s house in Old Snowmass, Colo., shortly after 1 a.m. Mountain time. He was taken to Aspen Valley Hospital, where he was pronounced dead at 3:11 a.m. Lay, who lived in Houston, frequently vacationed in Colorado." Posted by: Pat C on July 5, 2006 08:01 PM**shaking my head and rolling my eyes**
Lynda, what would the Sabian symbol be for the death of Ken Lay using the above data? Posted by: Pat C on July 5, 2006 08:45 PMHow many times in your life have you wished for a major problem or person to just to go away somehow? How many times have you fanaticized about some sob just dropping dead or getting their just dues? Maybe you fanaticized that the person could have a car accident, be in a train wreak, fall off a boat, get hit by an asteroid, simply vanish, or drop dead of a heart attacked. Presto-No person, No problem. Its perfectly healthy to think such thoughts, it helps us get past our anger, fear or distain and move on. It’s only unhealthy if we act on such thoughts. But the Bush crime family has the power and connections to make their problems go away. Mess with the Bushes and you might just end up “dead”. Ken Lay dropping dead of a massive “natural” heart attack! Oh Moose Booty Posted by: Geoff on July 5, 2006 08:56 PMhttp://www.astrodatabank.com/NM/LayKenneth.htm Kenny Boy has Pluto & Chiron conjunct in Leo! Pluto @4 Leo - Chiron @ 9 Leo -- Saturn had been conjunct his Chiron since mid June! Jupiter in Scorpio was partile squared his Chiron (exact) -- last night. I take this as an indication that he had a massive heart attack -- due to a congenital defect. As convenient as his death is for Bush -- it was the corporation (Enron) that defrauded the public -- and Skilling will now fill the vacuum left by Lay's sudden demise as one of the most hated persons that is connected to the Bush cabal. I would not rule out that Lay very well may have been medically murdered by Bush's assassins. We should take a deeper look at his chart -- w/ progressions and see if this was an artifically facilitated heart attack or caused by a cogenital birth defect. Posted by: Philomena on July 5, 2006 09:23 PMSupreme Court ruling troubles GOP senators 07/03/06 "AP" -- -- Of all the steps the Supreme Court could have taken to undercut President Bush's legal position in the war on terror, applying international law to al-Qaida probably would have been the worst. That development came to pass Thursday and now Republicans are rushing to protect the cornerstone of Bush's thinking: Suspected terrorists are not entitled to protection under the Geneva Accords. Sens. Mitch McConnell and Lindsey Graham said Sunday that Congress must address the Supreme Court ruling embracing Article 3 of the conventions in the military commission case of Osama bin Laden's former driver. Article 3 prohibits outrages upon personal dignity, "in particular humiliating and degrading treatment," and bars violence, including murder, mutilation and torture. In an election year, declaring that international law governs the war on terror reminds voters of some of the Republican administration's lowest moments: controversies over Justice Department "torture" memos and allegations of abuse against detainees at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. McConnell, R-Ky., the second-ranking GOP leader in the Senate, said the 5-3 court decision "means that American servicemen potentially could be accused of war crimes."
PatC, what Sabian Symbol do you want, for the Asc. Dsc. 8th house 4 house? which planet? I would take the Jupiter/Venus planets, maybe the Sun and maybe the moon. Posted by: Sally on July 5, 2006 09:49 PMWonkett has her doubts. Posted by: Pat C on July 5, 2006 09:53 PMSally, I'll go with your practiced eye, and wisdom. Posted by: Pat C on July 5, 2006 09:55 PMBoy, the Mexican President vote re-count is a real nail-biter: This would be right on course for the GOP to claim the opposition has done what they themselves are doing. It's their mode of distract and cover-up. ~~~~~~ CLAIM: GOP Likely to Charge E-Vote Fraud This November; DNC Advised to Wake Up! Quickly! BTCNews' Weldon Berger makes a very astute observation in an article posted Monday suggesting "Republicans set to cry 'Foul!' in November elections." He contends (with a suggested measure of inside skinny) that the GOP will use the evidence and arguments of election integrity advocates, such as yours truly and others, in making their case that Electronic Voting Machine fraud may have occurred in certain close elections this November if needed... Knowing the Republicans have never had the same fear gene that Dems have in regard to being called "sore losers," Berger's thesis is right on the money... FULL STORY: http://www.bradblog.com/?p=3031 Posted by: Pat C on July 5, 2006 10:24 PMI was just gonna post Eric's email about Ken Lay! Wow!!! isn't astrology great?! Posted by: Peg on July 5, 2006 10:45 PMhttp://www.tomdispatch.com/index.mhtml?emx=x&pid=98894 Playing the Destabilization Card at Home and Abroad The Destabilization Game One of these days, some scholar will do a little history of the odd moments when microphones or recording systems were turned on or left on, whether on purpose or not, and so gave us a bit of history in the raw. We have plenty of American examples of this phenomenon, ranging from the secret White House recordings of President John F. Kennedy's meetings with his advisers during the Cuban Missile Crisis (so voluminous as to become multi-volume publications) and Richard Nixon's secret tapes (minus those infamous 18½ minutes), voluminous enough so that you could spend the next 84 days nonstop listening to what's been made publicly available, to the moment in 1984 when a campaigning President Ronald_Reagan quipped on the radio during a microphone check (supposedly unaware that it was on): "My fellow Americans, I'm pleased to tell you today that I've signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. We begin bombing in five minutes." Just last week, a lovely little example of this sort of thing came our way and, twenty-two years after Ronald Reagan threatened to atomize the "evil empire," Russia was still the subject. Last Thursday, at a private lunch of G-8 foreign ministers in Moscow, an audio link to the media was left on, allowing reporters to listen in on a running series of arguments (or as the Washington Post's Glenn Kessler put it, "several long and testy exchanges") between U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov over a collective document no one would remember thenceforth More.... Posted by: Pat C on July 5, 2006 10:47 PM"One would have to check if they actually saw him in Aspen and then any plane taking off from Aspen in the last few days." Posted by Sally at July 5, 2006 06:34 PM I bet Arianna Huffington could find out. Posted by: Peg on July 5, 2006 10:48 PMHi PatC The transiting Moon was in Scorpio and only minutes before his death was on Scorpio 2: A Broken Bottle of Perfume. This refers to thinks 'breaking' but also 'leaking'. One sometimes needs to put a 'lid on things' as they can 'stink to high heaven'. Further, that Moon was exactly square transiting retrograde Mercury on Leo 2: An Epidemic of Mumps. This can indicate sickness, but it also indicates things getting out of control, an epidemic, gossip, a lack of 'containment' and threats of being 'infected' with whatever has got loose. Most interesting to me is his progressed Sun degree: Gemini 28: Society Granting Bankruptcy to Him, A Man Leaves the Court With Mixed Feelings. This was the degree when a famous Irish reporter was 'hit' in Ireland for investigating and reporting on the gangsters there... I can't remember her name (there was a movie made about her) but I was in Dublin at the time and actually drove past the spot where she was killed moments before. Lay's chart is interesting. His Sun degree is Aries 26: A Man Possessed of More Gifts Than He Can Possibly Hold - this was Hitler's Mercury degree - 'I'll have Germany, Poland, Russia, the entire world...' His Pluto is Leo 4: A Man Formally Dressed Standing Next to Trophies He Brought Back From a Hunting Expedition (too bad he wasn't out hunting with Cheney). And his north node is Virgo 13: A Powerful Statesman Overcomes a State of Political Hysteria. It's all interesting...
Last night on our radio show, we were discussing Sen. McCain's constant vacillation with Bush and Cheney. We now have a presidential candidate who was supporting maverick republicanism and now sits on Falwell's lap and tongue kissing Bush. I called it: Weather Vane McCainism. Gone with the wind-ism. Vote again-hism! Can Feingoldism help us? Starman Posted by: Starman on July 6, 2006 01:24 AMThe timing of Lay's death certainly does seem suspect in ways both astrological and otherwise. If Lay actually is departed from this plane, however, his passing should give Cheney pause, who is also 64 and with a much longer, more pronounced history of heart problems. To Shylurker -- sorry I missed your earlier post about Obrador and the Mexican election. I guess we all know the results now, but we can still hope for a turnaround in the recount, especially with Mercury retrograde. I only wish Gore and the Dems had pushed for the same in 2000, and Kerry in 2004. The U.S. Democrats could definitely stand to learn a thing or two about standing up to the Right Wing from Obrador and his party. Posted by: NEOBuckeye on July 6, 2006 01:40 AM
Is Ken Lay Dead? And if so, Was it Really a Heart Attack? Call me paranoid. If I were as rich as Ken Lay, I'd arrange to appear to have died, so my friend George Bush wouldn't have to pardon me. He could just tell Gonzalez to ease off on the investigation of the death, and follow it with a quick cremation. If I were Ken Lay, worth tens or hundreds of millions, I'd have set a plan, in case I was convicted, to get out of the country in a way that would allow George Bush to just forget about me. I don't trust Bush, Lay's friend. I had feared that Bush would pardon Lay, but that would have been awkward. This little slight of hand would make it much easier. All Bush has to do is tell his little sock puppet, Gonzalez not to check it out closely. "Let the death pass." http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_rob_kall_060705_is_ken_lay_dead_3f.htm Thanks, NEOBuckeye. Olbrador was holding up pretty well all day but is now starting to slip. Somebody said that they are now counting from areas where PAN is strongest. Dunno. Posted by: shylurker on July 6, 2006 01:55 AMI love all these posts, esp. since it wasn't just me who found "Kenny-boy"'s "departure" just a little too easy and obvious.....but on to the 11/2006 elections, for which Mexico is apparently just a warm-up, and so, we should all remember this line--"If it's not close, they can't cheat!". Now, read this: I can just see it now.......
By Mike Whitney The photographs of bombed-out buildings, burned-down power plants, and blown-up bridges only tell half the story of Israel's terror-war on the people in Gaza. http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article13863.htm === By Stephen Lendman Few people anywhere have suffered more or longer than the beleaguered Palestinians. For nearly four decades they've lived under a harsh and unending Israeli occupation of their land. They've endured a continued assault to seize it, a loss of their personal and economic rights and a denial of any chance for justice or their very humanity. These courageous people remain isolated in their own land with little support from the outside. Yet it's never broken their spirit as they continue their heroic efforts to survive and struggle to gain their freedom. http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article13866.htm Thank you so much Lynda. It sounds more like an arranged ending doesn't it? What terribly strange times we are experiencing. Posted by: Pat C on July 6, 2006 02:21 AMThank you for posting about the Palestinians, wv, it honestly breaks my heart. It's interesting to note that the day Israel was declared as existing coincided with the end of the British Mandate in Palestine. The Sabian Symbol for the Sun in Israel's chart is Taurus 24: An Indian Warrior Riding Fiercely With Human Scalps Hanging From His Belt. One could erect a chart for Palestine from the end of that day, hence the Sun for Palestine is the same degree. (I'd get out the charts for the data, but I'm hurrying this...) Of course there are other charts for Palestine, but this is the one day that has impacted on them more than any other... So, both Israel and Palestine have the Sun at Tauurs 24 - the Indian Warrior Scalping - "I'll take your scalp then you'll take mine, etc, etc, etc, etc" Posted by: Lynda Hill on July 6, 2006 02:47 AMLynda wrote: I didn't know what to think about this ..... it seems fairly possible that he could have actually died....but it is just as possible to make it look like he died. But how would an arranged death have taken place with those kind of aspects? It seems quite.....labor intensive! Well, we'll see if there are any sightings, and whether his wifey disappears also. I am certainly enjoying these amazing Sabean symbols. Posted by: JudiGem on July 6, 2006 04:47 AMConcerning wv's post... by Rob Kall on this blog, the question was raised about Lay's imminent testimony... the degree of the Moon at this death was The Broken Bottle of Perfume, the symbolism for which includes the "spilling of one's guts". Posted by: Lynda Hill on July 6, 2006 05:10 AMHi Lynda, Hi James Please clarify and I'd be pleased to answer! Posted by: Lynda Hill on July 6, 2006 06:14 AMNeo, Garry, Shy, and anyone else interested in Mexico's election this is the way people CAN fight election fraud in their country. Not particularly that the military won't say they will back Fox's call to stop the re-count. http://narconews.com/Issue42/article1962.html James Thompson, there are several books and studies on Sabian Symbols the most definitive is considered to be Dane Rudhyar's "Astrological Mandala" Very interesting reading with all the astro degrees listed plus the history of the Sabian Symbols. They have been used by astrologers for several decades. Posted by: Sally on July 6, 2006 06:33 AMJames, if you're asking about the Sabian Symbols and where they came from, you'll find lots of info at my site - www.sabiansymbols.com (apologies if it's not kosher to put your own website up here!). Further, my book 360 Degrees of Wisdom: Charting Your Destiny With the Sabian Oracle was published about 18 months ago by Penguin NY. Here's the link to my book at Amazon: You can use the 'Search Inside' feature to have a look at the pages. Hope this helps
A wee note before "going bush" (nothing to do with your flawed fearless leader) Just had to post this for fellow Siblyites before departing. Here's a taste re your flawed fearless leader. "Uranus in Pisces is in W’s 3rd house of mind, giving his mind a weird twist. Venus in Gemini is in his 6th house of the services, midway between the U.S. Uranus and Mars, a warlike combination...." Posted by: Stan on July 6, 2006 11:12 AM
HOUSTON, July 5 — In yet another bizarre twist to the Enron saga, the sudden death of Kenneth L. Lay on Wednesday may have spared his survivors financial ruin. Mr. Lay's death effectively voids the guilty verdict against him, temporarily thwarting the federal government's efforts to seize his remaining real estate and financial assets, legal experts say. h ttp://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/06/business/06legal.html?ex =1309838400&en=9d2f51a49236b5f7&ei =5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss Posted by: Peg on July 6, 2006 02:09 PM
http://www.latimes.com/features/health/la-sci-tylenol5jul05,0,6571111.story?coll=la-home-headlines From the Los Angeles Times Even at Advised Doses, Tylenol May Harm Liver By Denise Gellene July 5, 2006 The highest recommended dose of Extra Strength Tylenol sharply increased liver enzymes in healthy adults in a clinical study — an early sign of possible organ damage. Although overdoses of Tylenol have been found to harm the liver, the study published today in the Journal of the American Medical Assn. is the first to spot hints of trouble in healthy people taking the pain reliever as directed. "This study shows that even taking the amount on the package can be a problem for some people," said Dr. William M. Lee of the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center, who was not involved in the research. Tylenol is the leading brand of acetaminophen, which is found in more than 200 types of pain relievers and cold remedies. An estimated 100 million Americans take acetaminophen safely each year. Posted by: wv on July 6, 2006 03:26 PM
Before They Put Cheato Lay's Coffin in the Ground BE SURE HE'S IN IT (with his picture and a coffin severing as an ! point. Posted by: wv on July 6, 2006 03:42 PMI've been wondering for many months how the open secret of election theft has been kept from the public, and why the Dems, who have been demolished by vote fraud, remain shy about speaking its name. Last week, a friend gave me an old book, and some of the answers began to come into focus. There's a Pandora's box full of vote theft stories going back many decades, with many politicians eager to keep the lid closed. James and Kenneth Collier (brothers) discovered evidence of massive vote theft in Florida in the 1970s and 80s. They tried to get word out through existing newspapers and through network TV. They tried publishing their own newspaper. In the book Votescam, they recount personal experiences with censorship, blackmail, and death threats. The book is not a scholarly, documented summary, but a firsthand account of personal experiences. It is (surprise!) not being distributed by mainstream outlets, but second-hand copies are available from Amazon, and there's a website where you can buy the book direct from the publisher, or download most of the book's contents. James's daughter Victoria Collier continues the struggle to publicize accounts of vote theft. -Josh http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/102503C.shtml Sacramento Bee on Busby/Bilbray Mess: 'The Threat to Democracy is Very Real' Brad Quoted Almost Accurately in Decent Coverage of Woeful TaleŠ FULL STORY: From a post on DU: Election ballots found in trash dump in Veracruz
Encuentran actas electorales en basurero de Veracruz Édgar Ávila Pérez / Corresponsal 23:49 Integrantes del Partido de la Revolución Democrática (PRD) encontró en Xalapa, la capital de Veracruz, actas electorales supuestamente tiradas en la basura, lo cual fue testificado por un notario público y denunciado ante las instancias competentes. En conferencia de prensa, el dirigente estatal perredista, Rogelio Franco Castán, afirmó que con esto se demuestra el fraude electoral en Veracruz para impedir que llegue a la Presidencia de la República Andrés Manuel López Obrador. http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/notas/360330.html
Election Ballots found in trash dump in Veracruz Members of the Democratic Revolution Party (PRD) discoverd in Xalapa, the capital of Veracruz, election ballots thrown in the trash dump, this was attested and witnessed by a public notary and notification given to the proper authorities. In a press conference, the PRD's Chair for the state of Veracruz, Frank Rogelio Castán, confirmed that this incident is evidence of electoral fraud in Veracruz to impede the election of Andrés Manuel Lopez Obrador to the Presidency of the Republic. Here is the earlier story mentioned at the top of this post: The ballots from three precincts in the city of Nezahuacoyotl - a López Obrador stronghold - were discovered yesterday in the municipal garbage dump. The results from two of those precincts have been missing, since Sunday, from IFE's vote tallies. An IFE official, ambushed by television reporters, exacerbated the crime yesterday when she blamed the Mexican military: the Armed Forces, not IFE, are supposedly guarding the ballots, she said, in defense of her bureaucracy. This, sources close to the military told Narco News, produced significant anger among the military generals and troops who - if the public does not believe or accept IFE's final decision - will be called upon to quell the national rebellion that follows. http://narconews.com/Issue42/article1962.html Here is the picture of one of the ballots found earlier at the municipal trash dump in Ciudad Nezahualcóyotl: http://www.jornada.unam.mx/2006/07/05/index.php DU DISCUSSION CAN BE FOUND HERE: Posted by: Pat C on July 6, 2006 03:45 PMCollier brothers "Votescam" is on line here:
TODAY'S HOROSCOPES July 6, 2006 -- IF IT'S YOUR BIRTHDAY Is confidence something you are born with or is it something you can learn? As a Cancerian you may sometimes lack in self-belief but that won't be a problem over the coming 12 months as you find ways to boost your self-esteem and go on to create things that have meaning both for yourself and for many other people. Posted by: wv on July 6, 2006 05:56 PMWhew! Good one to share: Hey gals, The leftist-populist candidate, Lopez Obrador, and Mexico's natal chart is at: The 2nd candidate, Felipe Calderon, who is proclaiming victory with less than .5 advantage was born 8/18/1962 I'M BITING MY NAILS TRYING TO FIGURE THIS OUT Thank you! Citlalli Posted by: Citlalli on July 6, 2006 06:10 PMIf I'm not mistaken, Obrador has a cluster of placements in his 10th house, and Jupter in Scorpio just went direct and should be transiting those planets. Posted by: Sharon on July 6, 2006 06:19 PMWhy refer to Obrador as a "leftist" & Calderon as a "conservative?" That's asymetrical, false &, I would assume, highly political. It s/b "leftist" & "rightist" or "progressive" & "fascist." ;O) Posted by: on July 6, 2006 06:41 PMLeft = Bad/Evil, in the Right Wingers eyes. Obviously, "Conservative" doesn't seem so bad. I like how Thom Hartmann frames them, though: Right Wing = Reich Wing He always says it tongue in cheek, but the representation isn't lost at all. Posted by: NEOBuckeye on July 6, 2006 07:44 PMCitlalli - Thanks for the charts! On first blush -- I can see that Obrador's election has been *sabotaged*! t Pluto in Sag through his Sag/Jupiter ruled 12th house is opposing his 6th House Jupiter in Gemini. This is a very dangerous opposition to contend with when running for public office -- suggesting that he has dangerous secret political enemies who were planted deep inside his inner political circle by Caledron -- just laying in wait for the signal from the right wing henchmen to sabotage Obrador's win. (There is an article suggesting that ballots were found in a dump) -- PC wrote: "here is the picture of one of the ballots found earlier at the municipal trash dump in Ciudad Nezahualcóyotl: I just read on Yahoo that Obrador intends to challenge the election results in the Courts -- and it does look as though he will successfully expose those who perpetrated election fraud as well as the saboteurs behind the rigged election process. In the chart for Mexico -- t Pluto is in the 9th house -- coming close to conjunct Mexico's n Uranus/Neptune conj. that is square the 12th house n Pluto in Pisces -- the people will learn the truth behind the fixed election results through Obrador's litigation and this will erupt into either a political scandal - earthquake or civil war and revolution. Posted by: Philomena on July 6, 2006 09:13 PMMars and Neptune were in opposition in the last 24 hours -- the global right wing elitists are once again attempting to pull off another massive fraud on the public -- vis a vis this *rigged* election -- but I don't think they will suceed in Mexico as seamlessly as they have in past two national elections in the US. Posted by: Philomena on July 6, 2006 09:21 PMCalderon's brother-in-law Diego Zavala has confirmed that he participated in a bid for election-count software but didn't win. The weekly news magazine Proceso on June 11 reported that the top election official overseeing election-reporting software, Rodrigo Morales, is an old friend of Calderon, raising questions of conflict of interest. I'd urge everyone to go to http://www.waynemadsenreport.com/ and read both entries for July 6th--the first one talks about Darth Cheney's henchman, David Addington, and the apparent Fitzgerald derailment...the second entry for today talks about the "vote" in Mexico. Not vouching for the truth of either, but they make for provocative reading.... Posted by: Garry on July 6, 2006 10:58 PM
Thanks for the memories... http://www.bushflash.com/thanks.html Posted by: wv on July 6, 2006 10:59 PMOver at DU, it's just been reported that the nooooze is saying Kenny-Boy's remains are to be cremated. Uh-huh. Posted by: shylurker on July 7, 2006 02:21 AMshylurker -- do you think these global-economic-vampires are going to leave any forensic/DNA evidence? -- Nah!!! -- This will go down in history as the perfect NWO crime that the Bush/Cheney Cabal got away with for the umpteenth time. Good Ole Lay was suicided by the Bush assassin team or is now sipping a martinin somewhere in the South Pacific! Your guess is as good as mine! Posted by: Philomena on July 7, 2006 02:27 AM** Loud whistle ** .................. My generaton of Jews was too young to fight against Nazism or for Israeli independence, too American to make aliyah (emigrate to Israel), too comfortable to put our bodies on the line for anything Jewish. Instead, we observed, contributed... We became part of what is perhaps the most effective lobbying and fund-raising effort in the history of democracy. [my emphasis] LAST STAND Inside the Pentagon, senior commanders have increasingly challenged the President’s plans, according to active-duty and retired officers and officials. The generals and admirals have told the Administration that the bombing campaign will probably not succeed in destroying Iran’s nuclear program. They have also warned that an attack could lead to serious economic, political, and military consequences for the United States. http://www.newyorker.com/printables/fact/060710fa_fact Posted by: Philomena on July 7, 2006 05:28 AMI don't condone Israel's hardline, militaristic tactics, Phil, or their treatment of the Palestinians, especially now. I am Jewish but have been thinking about donating to Mercy Corp for the Palestians (and probably will), but what Alan Dershovitz is talking about was fund raising to support Israel in various ways - schools, orphans, charities, bonds to support the goverment. After the Holocaust and many years of persecution, Jews were bonding together to create a safe haven. For me, this is the positive side of zionism. I think you would have to be Jewish (or Black) to understand the violence and prejudice that was inflicted against us. For most of my early life, I was always a little ashamed to say I was Jewish. The neighborhood children told me I killed Christ! You would have to understand what it was like to have family killed in pogroms and the Holocaust to know why American Jews dug deeper and deeper into their pockets even on Yom Kipur while in synagogues. After the Holocaust, the Jews figured out that if they didn't protect themselves, who would? Posted by: Sharon on July 7, 2006 06:03 AM
http://www.rense.com/general70/du.htm Posted by: wv on July 7, 2006 10:35 AMTesting? In Mexico, 2.5 Million Missing Votes Reappear: López Obrador Reduces Calderón’s Official Margin to 0.6 percent
Today, in Mexico, begins a “recount” of votes cast in Sunday’s presidential election… in which the umpires are refusing to recount the votes. Election authorities of the Federal Electoral Institute (IFE, in its Spanish initials) closed ranks on Tuesday with the National Action Party (PAN) of President Vicente Fox and candidate Felipe Calderón to oppose the actual recounting the votes. This, on the heels of Tuesday’s “discovery” of 2.5 million votes hidden by IFE since Sunday’s election, added to a growing body of evidence – and corresponding public distrust in the institutions – that a gargantuan electoral fraud has been perpetrated. http://www.narconews.com/Issue42/article1962.html Posted by: Phil0mena on July 7, 2006 01:51 PMhttp://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/gate/archive/2006/07/07/notes070706.DTL&nl=fix It is like some sort of virus. It is like some sort of weird and painful rash on your face that makes you embarrassed to walk out the door and so you sit there day after day, waiting for it to go away, slathering on ointment and Bactine and scotch. And yet still it lingers. Some days the pain is so searing and hot you want to cut off your own head with a nail file. Other days it is numb and pain-free and seemingly OK, to the point where you think it might finally be all gone and you allow yourself a hint of a whisper of a positive feeling, right up until you look in the mirror, and scream. George W. Bush is just like that. Everyone I know has had enough. Everyone I know is just about done. There is this threshold of happy deadened disgust, this point where the body simply resigns itself to the pain, a point where the disease, the poison has seeped so deeply into the bones that you just have to laugh and shrug it all off and go for a drink. Or 10. More... Posted by: Pat C on July 7, 2006 02:09 PMDid any of you watch your tee vees last night? Did this really happen? http://www.tomdispatch.com/index.mhtml?emx=x&pid=99707 Karl Rove's Scheherazade Strategy Posted by: Pat C on July 7, 2006 02:33 PMSharon - Tikkun Olam! I agree 99.9999999% with your compassionate perspective regarding the necessity to restore the Jewish people's faith in a world that almost allowed them to be forgotten and annihilated in Nazi Germany (along with many other anti-fascist groups - homosexuals - communists et al) -- except for the part where you state: "After the Holocaust and many years of persecution, Jews were bonding together to create a safe haven. For me, this is the positive side of zionism." Peace and Blessings - Philomena What I find appalling/disturbing/hypocritical in statements made by pro-zionists is how they turn a blind eye to the fact that pre - Israeli zionists wholeheartedly collaborated and manipulated the Nazis on many subtle political levels so as to insure that the European Jews had no other place to go to escape persecution and would by necessity flock to Palestine to escape the pogroms. Pre Iraeli zionists who operated in England politically worked behind the scenes to manipulate lawmakers there and in many countries to expressly write laws prohibiting European Jews immigration into their country. To me -- zionism is an excruciating moral catch 22 for Jews with Conscience! Your humanity is damned if you do agree with them and damned if you don't! How is Israel a safe haven for Jews today? They are now trapped inside the Jewish state wholly controlled by militaristic fascist zionists who have been perpetrating crimes against humanity towards the indigenous Palestinians for well nigh 60 years. Honestly Sharon -- I am opposed to Israel/Jewish statehood because it cannot be had without continual colonial settlement - brutal occupation, ethnic cleansing and racist laws.
In The Secret Contacts: Zionism and Nazi Germany --1933-1941 by Klaus Polkehn and serialized in the Journal of Palestine Studies confirms what Edwin Black had revealed, that on February 28 1937, Feivel Polkes, head of the Haganah had told Adolf Eichmann that he was interested most of all in "accelerating Jewish migration to Palestine so that the Jews would obtain a majority over the Arabs in his country." Polkehn revealed that collaboration between the Zionists and the Third Reich was cemented by the "Mossad Aliyah Beth" which had been created by Haganah as an illegal immigration organization. Pina Ginsburg and Moshe Auerbach, with the blessings of the Reich, set up offices in Berlin to carry out their immigration activities in 1938. Posted by: Philomena on July 7, 2006 02:36 PMshy, I always miss LKL. Sounds about right though. Posted by: Pat C on July 7, 2006 02:37 PM
The Treason Card By PAUL KRUGMAN But anyone who was genuinely shocked by The Journal's willingness to play the treason card must not have been paying attention these past five years. Over the last few months a series of revelations have confirmed what should have been obvious a long time ago: the Bush administration and the movement it leads have been engaged in an authoritarian project, an effort to remove all the checks and balances that have heretofore constrained the executive branch. Much of this project involves the assertion of unprecedented executive authority — the right to imprison people indefinitely without charges (and torture them if the administration feels like it), the right to wiretap American citizens without court authorization, the right to declare, when signing laws passed by Congress, that the laws don't really mean what they say. But an almost equally important aspect of the project has been the attempt to create a political environment in which nobody dares to criticize the administration or reveal inconvenient facts about its actions. And that attempt has relied, from the beginning, on ascribing treasonous motives to those who refuse to toe the line. As far back as 2002, Rush Limbaugh, in words very close to those used by The Wall Street Journal last week, accused Tom Daschle, then the Senate majority leader, of a partisan "attempt to sabotage the war on terrorism." Those of us who tried to call attention to this authoritarian project years ago have long marveled over the reluctance of many of our colleagues to acknowledge what was going on. For example, for a long time many people in the mainstream media applied a peculiar double standard to political speech, denouncing perfectly normal if forceful political rhetoric from the left as poisonous "Bush hatred," while chuckling indulgently over venom from the right. (That Ann Coulter, she's such a kidder.) But now the chuckling has stopped: somehow, nobody seems to find calls to send Bill Keller to the gas chamber funny. And while the White House clearly believes that attacking The Times is a winning political move, it doesn't have to turn out that way — not if enough people realize what's at stake. For I think that most Americans still believe in the principle that the president isn't a king, that he isn't entitled to operate without checks and balances. And President Bush is especially unworthy of our trust, because on every front — from his refusal to protect chemical plants to his officials' exposure of Valerie Plame, from his toleration of war profiteering to his decision to place the C.I.A. in the hands of an incompetent crony — he has consistently played politics with national security. And he has done so with the approval and encouragement of the same people now attacking The New York Times for its alleged lack of patriotism. Does anyone remember the editorial that The Wall Street Journal published on Sept. 19, 2001? "So much for Florida," the editorial began, celebrating the way the terrorist attack had pushed aside concerns over the legitimacy of the Supreme Court decision that installed Mr. Bush in the White House. The Journal then warned Mr. Bush not to give in to the "temptation" to "subjugate everything else to the priority of getting bipartisan support for the war on terrorism." Instead, it urged him to use the "political capital" generated by the atrocity to push through tax cuts and right-wing judicial appointments. Things have changed since then: Mr. Bush's ability to wrap his power grab in the flag has diminished now that most Americans no longer consider him either competent or honest. But the administration and its supporters still believe that they can win political battles by impugning the patriotism of those who won't go along. For the sake of our country, let's hope that they're wrong. Copyright 2006 The New York Times Company Posted by: wv on July 7, 2006 03:13 PMLawless Workplaces Decisions pending before Bush's labor relations board could bring back the law of the jungle to some industries. http://www.tompaine.com/articles/2006/07/07/lawless_workplaces.php Posted by: Pat C on July 7, 2006 04:34 PMThe Top 10 Power Brokers of the Religious Right http://www.alternet.org/story/38467/ The United States is home to dozens of Religious Right groups. Many have small budgets and focus on state and local issues; the most powerful organizations conduct nationwide operations, command multi-million-dollar bank accounts and attract millions of followers. They have disproportionate clout in the halls of Congress, the White House and the courts, and they wield enormous influence within the political system. What follows is a list of the nation's Top Ten Religious Right groups, as determined by publicly available financial data and political prominence. Additional information describes the organizations' leaders, funding and activities. More... Posted by: Pat C on July 7, 2006 05:32 PM
Monday, July 10, 2006 It is a physical fact that the Moon has no light of its own. It merely reflects the light of the Sun, and the Full Moon in Capricorn fully illustrates the spiritual meaning of this physical fact. When the Moon is Full in Capricorn, the Sun is in Cancer, the sign that rules emotional connectedness, nurturance, compassion, and personal expressions of love. Because the Moon rules Cancer, when the Moon is posited in Capricorn (the sign opposite its natural zodiacal energy) this makes for a special energetic symbiosis between the Sun and Moon. Only at this time of year, can the Moon fully infuse the restrictive, withholding, structured, serious energy of Capricorn with its natural, energetic Cancerian open and flowing love. This is especially true with Mercury (mind) in Cancer (heart) and Venus (love) in Gemini (openness). Where Cancer feels almost childlike in its attachment to direct experience of emotive love, Capricorn knows that sacrifice and personal responsibility are the building blocks of true love, and realizes this goal with a special grace and maturity. http://www.astrowisdom.com/thisfullmoon.htm Posted by: wv on July 7, 2006 05:32 PMIsn't it sorta amazing that all elections now, even in Mexico, are "won" by the "narrowest of margins" always 100% by the bushaholic type? There are no longer "landslide" elections, or "healthy majorities. Nope... always now by the "squeakiest" of "getting by" by voters divided always by half... ;O) Posted by: JoannaOregon on July 7, 2006 07:17 PMJoannoO, it's the only way they can try to make people think that their right-wingers are elected. Everyone knew Kerry was going to win. I didn't know many republicans that were going to vote for Bush.... but he "won". Just like Mexico's Calderon "won". Indeed. I hope Lopez Obrador does everything possible, including civil disobedience, to give a shining example to all of us about the nature of standing up for our rights and the right to elect our leaders. Hopefully he will be able to to uncover the pit of slime that our electoral systems have turned into so people's eyes are opened. Posted by: on July 7, 2006 07:25 PMOops, that was me (7:25 pm). Marta Posted by: Marta on July 7, 2006 07:27 PMColin Powell hospitalised 07/07/2006 11:10 - (SA) Aspen - Former US secretary of state Colin Powell was briefly hospitalised early on Friday after he fell ill at a restaurant where he was dining with former President Bill Clinton and others, police said. http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_1964315,00.html Posted by: Pat C on July 7, 2006 07:39 PMHmmmmm... good thing there is SOME health care left in the US to take care of the growing gaggle of fascist operatives dropping ill or dead. The pressure must be awful. ;O) Which leads me to believe that drunkie cheney is not really human. Posted by: JoannaOregon on July 7, 2006 08:24 PMThe nurse must mean powell as a lead-thinking non-thinker. Btw, posters on this thread are aware that powell has within him a chunk of jewish heritage, yes? Actually, he's not THAT "black." Posted by: JoannaOregon on July 7, 2006 08:28 PMWow!! http://www.aztlan.net/la_nueva_revolucion.htm MEXICO: "La Nueva Revolucion" may start tomorrow by Ernesto Cienfuegos La Voz de Aztlan Los Angeles, Alta California - June 7, 2006 - (ACN) Mexicans on both side of the border are very apprehensive about the future. The collective destiny of the Mexican people is presently in the hands of a few politicians in Mexico City and Washington D.C. What occurs tomorrow at "El Zocalo" in Tenochtitlan may determine the fate of the Mexican people, and possibly of all Latin America, for many generations to come. Aztlan and Mexico are presently facing two major uncertainties. The first is the crisis that has arisen from the July 2 election of the next Mexican president and the second is what the US Congress will legislate concerning immigration reform. The fate of tens of millions of Mexicans is at stake. The huge marches and rallies that occurred in the USA by hundreds of thousands of Mexican and other Latino immigrants in March and May of this year could be dwarfed by what could occur in Mexico if a "Bush type" electoral scam is uncovered tomorrow by socialist candidate Andrés Manuel López Obrador at El Zocalo and Mexicans take to the streets seeking justice. Andrés Manuel López Obrador of the Partido Revolucionario Democratico (PRD) has already objected to a large number of irregularities that he said occurred during the counting of the votes by the Instituto Federal Electoral (IFE). The IFE is charged with conducting elections in Mexico but it is staffed by mostly people from the ruling and conservative Partido Accion Nacional (PAN). The IFE has officially declared that the PAN candidate Felipe Calderón won the election by a mere .57 percentage point. This is after Andrés Manuel López Obrador had led in the polls and after he had led in the actual count 36.48 % to Calderón's 34.78 % up to when 85.76 % of the total votes cast had been counted. Suddenly the IFE and the media went silent and in the end, the IFE reported that Calderon was ahead in the count by a very small margin. Approximately 42 million Mexicans voted in the July 2 elections. Historical records indicate that the PRD was cheated in the 1988 presidential elections by the then ruling Partido Revulocionario Institucional (PRI) and the people vowed, at that time, that it will never happen again. The PRD candidate Cuauhtemoc Cardenas was also leading in the count by a comfortable margin when suddenly the computer system used to count the votes mysteriously crashed. When the computers came back on line, Carlos Salinas de Gotari of the PRI, like Calderon did during the current election, jumped in front of the PRD candidate and declared president. More.... Just like the "elections" here... & elsewhere... where lil gaggles of torturing, killing, thieving, psychopathic ruler-brats insist on playing lethally with the rest of us & the Natural World for their own personal amusement & fattening... * WASHINGTON - America's appetite for organic food is so strong that supply just can't keep up with demand. Organic products still have only a tiny slice, about 2.5%, of the nation's food market. But the slice is expanding at a feverish pace. ... http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060706/ap_on_he_me/fit_organic_appetite;_ylt=AkyGk4aNEV3X8e9fN7XBZqKs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ-- It seems to me that the old/new ruler-brats are standing out in greater relief & intensifying way where The Peoples of the world can see them easier & easier. The nasty old notion that "rulers" have a divine right to rule over all others is lookin' more stupid & silly & intolerable & I think that lighted consciousness has been taking "quantum leaps" this past year. Posted by: JoannaOregon on July 7, 2006 10:28 PMPluto in Leo could be showing all Peoples the rude fallacy of outer Kings before their Royal Cosmic Demise. "The King is Dead! Long May He Stay Dead & Gone!" Posted by: JoannaOregon on July 7, 2006 10:33 PMLinda Hill, comment on sun signs for Israel and Palestine... Marjorie Orr sees November 15, 1988, date of Palestine Proclamation as chart date (you mentioned you had dates, other than the Israel date)... the symbol for Scorpio 23: makes more sense to me than 24 Taurus... Posted by: on July 7, 2006 11:42 PMCOURT TV's Catherine Crier on Electoral Crisis: 'A Full Frontal Attack on Democracy'! Devasting Video Editorial on the 'Unprecedented Scandal Threating to Turn us into a Banana Republic' 'If we are willing to send troops around the world to secure freedom at the ballot box, shouldn't we fight for that right here at home?' Catherine Crier offered a devasting editorial recently on Court TV in regard to election integrity. The national character of this scandal is unprecedented and threatens to turn us into little more than a banana republic, where candidates appear on the ballot in name only because the election has already been determined. If we are willing to send our troops around the world to secure freedom at the ballot box for others, shouldn't we fight for that right here at home? Partisanship has no place in this battle. For the sake of democracyŠfor the sake of AmericaŠit is time all citizens demand the sanctity of our election process. With the November elections almost upon us, we haven't a moment to lose. http://www.bradblog.com/?p=3041 For a really good laugh, go here and vote: hi sharon, philomena, etc. i am mainly a lurker on the board, and have great affection for it. i may have missed some of the thread on zionism, but i feel the need to interject. please correct me if i've misread something. i am jewish, and my politics (very left) are totally informed by the the concept of tikkun olam -- healing and repairing the world. i'm the first to admit that the state of israel has blood on it's hands, but when people on the left allow the dialogue to devolve into phrases like "zionist controlled media" (from one of the articles pasted into a post here) we are sliding into dangerously anti-semitic territory. jews that stand up for the rights of palestians and other oppressed groups are legion (civil rights in the us a good example of this) so we can't lump everyone together. the policies of a country don't necessarily reflect the energies and consciousness of the ethnic group that they purport to represent. michael lerner, editor of the liberal journal "tikkun", wrote a book many years ago about anti-semitism on the left -- very interesting stuff. whenever i go to anti-war events, i always feel a bit like i have to keep my jewish identity secret, because of the assumptions some people continue to make about jews and israel. it's endelessly complicated, but there should be no room for ignornance and intolerance on the left -- we're all in this together, fighting facism, racism, working for human rights and spreading peace and love. jews do not control the media -- they aren't all rich, most of them vote democratic, and the ones that support israel don't know or care about the history of zionism in the early twentieth century. they simply feel the powerful and disturbing resonance of the nazis attempt to murder every last jew in the 1930s and 40s -- to some of us, it feels like five minutes ago, and makes us more sensitve to the plight of those that are being currently ethnically cleansed. Posted by: stefanie on July 8, 2006 12:02 AMIt was written: Scorpio 23: makes more sense to me than 24 Taurus... Yes, I know about the other charts one could use for Palestine - however, the May 14 1948 date was the date that 'sealed' the fate of the Palestinians more than any other. As far as the Palestine Proclamation you mention, just how much is that holding up in their real world? I know it's a viable chart as well, but nowhere near as potent as what happened on the day Israel was proclaimed. If the Palestinians really had self determination, the 1948 chart would be superseded. No such luck for them. You mention Scorpio 23 as being more the story. That degree certainly holds sway, but the Taurus 24 degree of the Indian Warrior Scalping is far more what's actually happening - don't you agree? Further, I always look at the degrees before and after and opposite and square - it fills in the story... so, the Scorpio 23 Rabbit Metamorphosing into a Nature Spirit is opposite the Indian Warrior degree - it's not separate from the story, even in the 1948 chart. I have to also mention that the degree before the Scorpio 23 degree is Scorpio 22. I see the degree before as being the 'karmic degree' and Scorpio 22 is Hunter Shooting Wild Ducks. Sounds right, as well. Interestingly, in that Palestine Proclamation chart, Venus is on Libra 20: A Jewish Rabbi Performing His Duties - the karmic condition degree being Libra 19: A Gang of Robbers in Hiding. They're all interesting, these charts, but the 1948 one has more to say about what happened to Palestine than any other IMHO. Hope I'm making sense!! Posted by: Lynda Hill on July 8, 2006 02:40 AMStephanie, I just finished reading your poignant post. Thank you for sharing your feelings and thoughts here. Lately I have heard reports of resurgence of neo-nazi groups (David Neiwert has some reports on Orcinus blog that make my hair stand on end), particularly their involvement in the immigration issue... but lately, their blatant public appearances shouting their slime against Jews... Today there are reports of the US military being filled with members of these hate groups... shocking, absolutely shocking. I live in the South and observe racism in whites towards blacks... there is a rabid hatred of so-called 'liberals' growing daily. There was a poster at Orcinus who commented: "It should be remembered, however, that "liberal media" and "media elite" means the same thing in some quarters as "cosmopolitan" once meant in Russia: Jews." A poster at Moon of Alabama commented today that 300 Jews took out an ad in the London Times expressing their opposition to what the government of Israel is doing in Gaza. Sharon and I have had one or two exchanges on this board in months past about what I feel is the rush of some American Jews to judge criticisms of Israel as anti-semitic. Yet it occurs to me that some of us on the left are not being sensitive enough to American and Israeli Jews who criticize the gov't of Israel just as we Americans in general criticize BushCO. At Salon some of us are attempting to dialogue about the present issue of the Israeli government pushing into Gaza, the collective punishment issues, etc. It is my experience that many Jewish Americans see this exactly as I do... but are perhaps much more devastated, compounded with the disappointment in the USA government. Of course, some see it differently, just as some Americans support the invasion of Iraq and Bush. This time in our lives presents an opportunity for much raising of our consciousness, if we can only tune into that... One of the things I am learning is not to be silent about the opinions I have, regardless of whether it offends family or friends or strangers... of course, I may end up in an orange jumpsuit, but I think that would be preferrable to being silent. namaste Posted by: Jo on July 8, 2006 02:49 AMJo wrote: Sharon and I have had one or two exchanges on this board in months past about what I feel is the rush of some American Jews to judge criticisms of Israel as anti-semitic. This is so true, thanks for stating it, Jo. I was going to write the exact same sentiment. Not that many Americans are interested, but if someone wants to jump up and down about our lousy government, I would never see it as a criticism of being Australian, and I would hope that Americans don't feel I judge them when I slam their government...
Found this site the other day...and there is much http://www.ziopedia.org/content/view/217/1/ Posted by: wv on July 8, 2006 03:18 AMthanks for the link WV... I am also discovering that some consider 'zionism' a buzz or code word for 'Jewish' I don't know the solution for the Israeli-Jewish conflict... but I do recall that it was much more peaceful in the ME in 1999... it is my belief (not a known fact mind you) that BushCO has done much to interfere in the conflict and to the detriment of all of us... Lynda, that was my post above at 11:42.. I have been lurking for so long, forgot to put my name in... thank you for commenting... It seems to me almost impossible to determine a date for a chart for a country... (I have only recently come to this conclusion!) for instance, is the USA the same country it was before the Civil War? In other words, did the secession of the Southern states change that? And with Iraq, it was created by the Brits, after having different boundaries... and now is being created again, perhaps to be divided into three parts... and again with Palestine... so many events, so many dates. I find your assessment " but the 1948 one has more to say about what happened to Palestine than any other IMHO" to be extremely on the money... I plunged right in to respond to Stephanie, and failed to thank you for your wonderful article, and most of all, for your Sabian Symbols! They truly resonate for me... a couple of years ago I went through my natal chart point by point and wrote out the appropriate symbols. The result was illuminating for me, and I want to thank you for all your effort and time to bring focus to yet another tool for understanding... kudos to you. Sharon: Jewish...or Black? Are the two mutually exclusive? Unfortunately, mainstream Jewry often sees it that way, and this is a crucial factor in de facto racism, which expressly plays out in the mistreatment of "colored" Palestinians: the existence of often swarthy Sephardim notwithstanding. Don't look Jewish? Who were the original Hebrews? And with all those "lost tribes" scattered to the four corners of the earth--whose descendants partake of that gene pool-- it's rather shocking how parsimoniously How Jews Became White Folk, by Karen Brodkin, offers interesting ruminations on the social advantages of certain racial "constructs." In any event, Shabbat Shalom. BTW, I have an autographed copy of Chutzpah, signed at New York's 92nd Street Y. At that signing, I personally relayed my dissatisfaction to Alan Dershowitz at comments made during his preceding lecture to the effect that Israel had imported hordes of "Black Africans [Ethiopian Jews] with AIDS." Posted by: Dawn on July 8, 2006 05:09 AMI checked Dawn and, you are right, it was not "hordes" of Ethiopian Jews with AIDS, it was about 230 who were admitted. There are now about 65,000 Ethiopian Jews in Israel, brought in to save their lives. I so not agree with a lot of this anti-Zionism stuff. It is one thing to protest and criticize the policies and actions of the Israeli government (although I still do not see anyone protesting the actions of suicide bombers nor the desire to wipe Israel off the map, as well as teaching anti-Jewish material in school). It is another to be "Anti-Zionist." That is like saying that the Jews are not entitled to have a homeland in Israel. I like Lydia Hill's interpretation that both sides are after each other's scalps. It is an ongoing conflict having to do with not wanting Israel to exist and I see no reason why the Jews should not have a homeland in the part of the world that they feel most associates with the very basis of their religion and peoplehood. Jews are not perfect. Like others, we have our faults. Many Jews keep themselves separated so they can better practice and be true to the religion. But Jews do not advocate violence. No matter what anyone says or writes, I will continue to believe that Israel is involved in a vicious cycle of retaliation with certain groups of Arabs as well as the terrorist groups. At this point it is not important who made the first strike, the fact remains that there is a war going on. The Jews were all ready to vote for a peace candidate in the 90's, but suicide bombs accelerated and they chose Sharon, thinking he would make them feel safe. If Jews ("Zionists") engage in propaganda, so do Arabs, so did Arafat. Also, I think it is nonsense to say (as it did in wv's link to Ziopedia) that anti-Semitism is an inaccurate word when applied to Jews, since many are descendants of Ashkenazi Turks. There are many types of Jews and a certain percentage are Semetic. Words take on meaning after being in common usage for a long time, there is no point in literally deconstructing them. There are many examples of this in language. Posted by: Sharon on July 8, 2006 06:41 AMI checked Dawn and, you are right, it was not "hordes" of Ethiopian Jews with AIDS, it was about 230 who were admitted. There are now about 65,000 Ethiopian Jews in Israel, brought in to save their lives. I so not agree with a lot of this anti-Zionism stuff. It is one thing to protest and criticize the policies and actions of the Israeli government (although I still do not see anyone protesting the actions of suicide bombers nor the desire to wipe Israel off the map, as well as teaching anti-Jewish material in school). It is another to be "Anti-Zionist." That is like saying that the Jews are not entitled to have a homeland in Israel. I like Lydia Hill's interpretation that both sides are after each other's scalps. It is an ongoing conflict having to do with not wanting Israel to exist and I see no reason why the Jews should not have a homeland in the part of the world that they feel most associates with the very basis of their religion and peoplehood. Jews are not perfect. Like others, we have our faults. Many Jews keep themselves separated so they can better practice and be true to the religion. But Jews do not advocate violence. No matter what anyone says or writes, I will continue to believe that Israel is involved in a vicious cycle of retaliation with certain groups of Arabs as well as the terrorist groups. At this point it is not important who made the first strike, the fact remains that there is a war going on. The Jews were all ready to vote for a peace candidate in the 90's, but suicide bombs accelerated and they chose Sharon, thinking he would make them feel safe. If Jews ("Zionists") engage in propaganda, so do Arabs, so did Arafat. Also, I think it is nonsense to say (as it did in wv's link to Ziopedia) that anti-Semitism is an inaccurate word when applied to Jews, since many are descendants of Ashkenazi Turks. There are many types of Jews and a certain percentage are Semetic. Words take on meaning after being in common usage for a long time, there is no point in literally deconstructing them. There are many examples of this in language. Posted by: Sharon on July 8, 2006 06:42 AMPlease excuse the length of this post! Hi Sharon The issue of Israel is a complex one driven by many factors, some with highly charged emotional issues attached. The bottom line for many like myself is that the Palestinians have been thrown out of their country in so many ways, I can't imagine growing up with that heritage - along with such confines in the shapes of borders, travel permissions and so many basic human rights. Many Palestinians live in terrible conditions with little hope for the future and this is not because there's something 'wrong with them', they've been forced to live on subsistence levels. To rob another of so much will of course lead to sadness, frustration and obsession and violence. The chart of Israel (14th May 1948 16.00 Tel Aviv, 34E46 32N04 - ascendant 23.02 Libra The Moon degree for Israel is at Leo 5: Rock Formations Towering Over A Deep Canyon is quite evocative. The story ranges from feeling safe in one's neck of the woods all the way to having painted one self into a corner, having nowhere to go, canyons and crevices that threaten, the need to 'jump into the void' in order to move forward. This image evokes Masada in my mind. The Moon for Palestine is Leo 10: Early Morning Dew. Although this Symbol, like all others of course, has a positive side, this can be very long and dark night of the soul. One can feel abandoned and that they must do things "under cover" of darkness. The Mercury in both charts: Mercury is on Gemini 11: Newly Opened Lands Offer the Pioneer New Opportunities For Experience. This is a great Symbol for Mercury in Gemini and one of its expressions could be found in the Exodus story. Naturally, and unfortunately, those who are already living in the 'newly opened lands' may find themselves squeezed out if the ideologies of those arriving are not the same. Venus in the chart of Israel is on what can be a very difficult degree - Cancer 5: At a Railroad Crossing, an Automobile is Wrecked by a Train. This 'trainwreck' happens when the needs of the individual (the car) are pitted against the bigger and larger needs of the collective (the train). At varying times, Israel and the Palestinians switch sides of who does the wrecking and who is "the wreck". In the Palestinian chart set for 8 hours later, the Venus degree is just sitting on 05Cancer00 and the Sabian Symbol for Cancer 6 is: In Spring, Game Birds are Feathering Their Nests. Many Palestians had to build new "nests" and this was the degree of Israel's progressed Venus soon after its birth. It's interesting to note that Venus went retrograde by progression (obviously in both charts) sometime around 1967. I thought it might be relevant to include my entire take on Taurus 24 - the Sun in both the charts of Israel and Palestine from my book 360 Degrees of Wisdom: Commentary: ‘An Indian Warrior Riding Fiercely With Human Scalps Hanging at His Belt’ is a Symbol of great force and conquest. ‘Scalping’ is often associated with American Indians. Long ago, the English paid bounties for Irish scalps. The Indians actually learnt the practice of ‘Scalping’ from the Europeans, where it was a well-established tradition. The original Indian tradition was for the ‘Warrior’ to steal something from the person conquered to show how strong his medicine was. Regardless, a vengeful heart creates only sadness for all concerned, and there are no real winners in the end. Oracle: Someone may have been holding back from pursuing what they’ve wanted and are now going after all they can get. The “us or them” mentality can lead to disputes, and separations and the forgetting of a sense of other people’s humanity. Perhaps you haven’t been given a fair share of things by society, or these have literally been taken from you. As a chain reaction can be set off with this Symbol, there needs to be care taken that a real “war” is not started with people seeking revenge. Consider everyone's rights as this can point to the invasion of other people’s space or territory. There may be a need for someone to mark their territory and claim their dues. Look to see if there are barriers up to prevent invasions of territory, yours or another’s. Be wary of excessive competition, in the marketplace or the home, as this can scare people off – making the environment unsafe and unsound. Taken to its extreme, this Symbol can point to all-out feuds between people.Alternatively, with a level of controlled aggression and taking the necessary risks, you can be recognized for your abilities as a successful leader, prepared to face danger and succeed. Bravery and honor are often admired and respected by others. Keywords: Race wars. Claiming one’s soil. Trophies of conquest. Aggression. Basic instincts. Territoriality. Chain reactions. Tit-for-tat. Competitive natures. Risks for the clan or group. Trophies, medals and diplomas. Striving for recognition and respect, deserved or not. Blood and sacrifice. Tribes mourning their losses. Ritualistic behaviors. Marking victories. War crimes. Ticket scalpers. The Caution: Conquering others without emotion. Showing off to intimidate others. Domination and ruthlessness. Taking things because one can. Violation of other’s space. Testosterone. Feeling taken advantage of. Notches on the belt, or gun. Cycles of retribution. Retribution. Taking scalps. It's interesting to note that just minutes after the state of Israel was proclaimed, the MC was on Cancer 27: A Furious Storm in a Canyon Filled With Valuable Homes. Enough for the moment of the astrology... concerning condemnation of suicide bombers, etc, I feel a furious rage when I hear about what they've done, but I can't get past the fact that the Palestinians who take just about any action are 'terrorists' while the Israeli's actions (who are the occuping and dominant force) are never couched in the same terms. It's a sad thing to have to measure as any loss of life is a terrible thing as is any act of violence, but there has been a lot more violence perpetrated on a daily basis against the Palestinians than has ever been thrown by the Palestinians at Israel. Sometimes the 'terror' they feel is unseen, unheard - the quiet desperation of a people with no real future. Again, I want to stress that when I get upset about Israel's actions, I don't equate it with the people of Israel and, being an outsider, I can feel compassion and pain for everyone who suffers in this conflict.
After such a lengthy post - I want to indulge in a much shorter one. It's a quote from Leonard Cohen - There is no decent place to stand in a massacre. This is so true, it doesn't matter which side one "supports". Posted by: Lynda Hill on July 8, 2006 08:18 AMinteresting, Linda, that the Israeli and Palestinian ascendants are in trine. Posted by: on July 8, 2006 09:20 AMinteresting, Linda, that the Israeli and Palestinian ascendants are in trine. Yes, they are trine, but the thing with the Palestinian chart is the Moon, Pluto and Saturn conjunction straddling the descendant - that's not a great recipe for getting along with others. I think something is really set to happen. The progressed Mercury is about to change signs from Gemini 30 to Cancer 1. The Sabian Symbol for Cancer 1 is Sailors on a Ship Lower an Old Flag and Raise a New One. Further, the progressed Moon of the Palestinian chart will change degrees in about 3 weeks to Libra 3: The Dawn of a New Day Reveals Everything Changed. Add that symbolism to the current transits of Saturn conjuncting the Moon, then Pluto,then squaring the Nodes and along with the upcoming Saturn return, the Sabian Symbol for which is Leo 17: A Volunteer Church Choir Making a Social Event of a Rehearsal (which suggests to me in Israel's chart the kibbutz and in Palestine's the suicide bomber). Posted by: Lynda Hill on July 8, 2006 11:18 AM"...But Jews do not advocate violence. ..." Yes, they do. The violence can be seen in Israel from its original inception to today's "return" has been right smack dab in everyone's face... tho it's part of any group's or individual's obsessive addictive pattern of behavior to deny the obvious. "Now, if those 'Others' wouid just behave the way I SEE it & give in to MY holy specialness, then I'D BE SAFE & everything would be wonderful." ...the ultimate rationalization of any addict's cachet of rationalizations. Posted by: JoannaOregon on July 8, 2006 01:31 PMOh dear God, please no...JoannaOregon has finally revealed the secret. Yes, it's true, we Jews have to finally admit it, we are the most violent and vile people on the planet. We've been trying hide that fact for centuries, even as we plundered all the peoples of the earth with our roving hords (superior number don't you know). One empire after the other has fallen to our mighty, violent nature. All the while we made out like we were the victims...what a con. We would have gotten away with it too, but, now it's over, JoannaOregon has exposed us. If we just went away, everything on planet earth...no the universe, would be alright. So there, it's out now, don't you feel better. I know i do. Posted by: terry on July 8, 2006 05:14 PM((((terry)))) That's a hug. It is the right wing of all the global groups that have brought on all this craziness. It has probably always been so. They disgust me. This too shall pass. Stand strong. Posted by: Pat C on July 8, 2006 05:55 PMGarrison Keillor: A Peach of a Scandal in Georgia http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/070806Y.shtml "The chutzpah of Mr. Reed in wheedling money from Mr. Abramoff to snooker Christians into an uproar against gambling is cold-hearted greed. And his work in behalf of the sweatshops and sex factories of the Marianas, arguing that the Chinese women imported there were being given the chance to hear the gospel of Jesus Christ, takes us to yet an entirely new level," writes Garrison Keillor. Posted by: Pat C on July 8, 2006 06:05 PM
http://tomflocco.com/fs/DeLayTestified.htm Posted by: wv on July 8, 2006 06:16 PM Dershowitz Contradicts Himself on the Power of the Israel Lobby My generaton of Jews was too young to fight against Nazism or for Israeli independence, too American to make aliyah (emigrate to Israel), too comfortable to put our bodies on the line for anything Jewish. Instead, we observed, contributed... We became part of what is perhaps the most effective lobbying and fund-raising effort in the history of democracy. [my emphasis] Thanks to all for your thoughtful posts. The truly sad thing about the Palestinian situation is that their troubles didn't begin in 1948 when the Brits created the state of Israel. (It's also interesting to note that some Jews and Arabs lived peacefully together in what was then Palestine -- the official "wars" began when the Israeli state was created by an outside entity.) Palestinians, it should be remembered, were stateless befoer the Jews arrived. They had been cast out by their own countries of origin -- Jordon, Syria, etc. They were the poor, the unwanted, the lowest caste of Arab society. No wonder they didn't want any more competition for land -- they were already refugees. When Jews arrived in Palestine, most just wanted a place to rest Holocaust-weary heads and to mourn for the dead, to have a life. Most were happy to live in peace with the Arabs that lived there already -- they wanted a democratic socieity where they wouldn't have to feel threatened by another Hitler. The Palestian refugees saw what was mostly a peaceful settlement (aside from the Israeli war for independence from the UK) as a vicious incursion. Then the Brits started forcibly removing Arabs from their homes -- not the Jews. Despite this history, though, the first bullet no longer matters. We now have millions of Israeils and Palestians -- brothers, if you look back to the Bible, caught up in a vicious cycle of violence. No one really remembers what happened anymore, and I don't think it's relevant. Each side has their own mythology to massage -- why my people are better than your people. It's important for us to remain mindful and as neutral as possible in our dialogue -- because there is already a rich, complicated history of hatred here. Now it is not "Jews" or "Arabs" -- it is two states fighting for their lives. One has an army, and one has an ad hoc army that does whatever it beleives is necessary to assert their will. Neither is "right". The Israeli gov't is not the Jewish people -- let us remember -- there are more Jews in New York City than in the state of Israel. What's sad is that it's not just Israeli Jews that feel threatened. As I mentioned before, I am poised for an assault at any moment. There was a piece in the LA Times a few weeks ago about Bush's loud criticisms of the NYTimes. It essentialy said that complaining about the Times was the safest way to cry out to his base "Screw those dirty Jew Bastards!" Maybe you can't get away with saying it out loud anymore, but this is the still the sentiment of many, even those that support Israel -- it's a strategic thing more than anything else. Not the Jewish lobby in Congress, not because people want to be a friend to Jews, but because they want a piece and it's the only democracy in the Middle East. There's also the right-wing Christian fundamentalist zealots that want a strong Israel so they can be well placed for the second coming of Christ (when all the heathen Jews will die as they ascend to heaven.) But that's a story for another day. Posted by: Stefanie on July 8, 2006 06:39 PMTerry I promised some time ago that I wouldn't post here any longer because of the angry and rather obnoxious/childish tone on the board lately (I still lurk obviously and must admit I have a terrible long distance sight unseen crush on Morgana!) mostly regarding Israel and the "Jewish" question (for the record I'm a third generation agnostic American Jew) but after reading your post, Terry, I will make an exception, as I am really sorry to have to put it in this way but: PLEASE grow up and get out of denial, it is a counterproductive and extremely dangerous state of being. I have lived for the past four years in Warsaw, Poland (long story!) in an old apartment building right next to the remnants of one of the walls of the infamous old Warsaw ghetto. This place has become a popular pilgrimage site for Jewish groups from many countries. Unfailingly, the people who come are in the great majority quite rude and aggressive; possessing for some inexplicable reason an overbearing sense of entitlement, i.e. when they come through (all at once) the gate from the street, they block the entire entrance/exit area, making absolutely no effort to move out of the way when the residents try to simply get through to do their shopping or perform their daily activities. Often these tour group leaders come toting an unnecessarily high powered electronic bullhorn at 7:30 a.m. on weekends, so the leader can tell the group all about the (admittedly horrific) history of place, without any regard for the {mostly fairly poor and often overworked) locals trying to just sleep in a bit on Sunday. I always seem to have the necessity of telling some of these people who block the way "I live here, can you PLEASE just let me through?!" Often they look at me with scorn or actually say something angrily, as if I am intruding on their own personal space! It gets tiresome after awhile. Yes of course, I really and truly do fully understand and appreciate the unspeakable horrors surrounding this place and what happened right here, but that is no excuse for these people to act like such totally insensitive boors. I further truly believe that the government of Israel is to a horrible degree using and abusing its "special relationship" with the U.S. to further its own agenda`with absolutely no regard for the immediate or long term consequences to America. I also truly believe that the Richard Perles, Max Boots, Doug Feiths, David Frums, Bill Kristols, Dov Zakheims, Scooter Libbys, Paul Wofowitzes, etc., etc. should be stripped of their U.S. citizenship and perhaps eved tried in court for treason, as they have unequivocably sold out American interests for the greater good of Israel. I am sure that these people would squeal with total orgasmic joy if Bush sent planes with tactical nukes to bomb Iranian nuclear facilities tomorow, regardless of the cataclysmic consequences for America and the planet as a whole So, Terry, please just 'cool it' with the nasty sarcasm re your comments toward Joanna`Oregon: it sadly just reinforces the unfortunate stereotype of the delusionally paranoid overly defensive Jew seeing enemies of Israel and Judaism itself under every bed, as well as in the comments of every person daring to challenge the very bad and yes, egregiously v-i-o-l-e-n-t behavior of the right wing politicians in Israel and their totally grotesque U.S. enablers.
Grizzly -- don't want to contribute to any ill feelings and rants here, but I have to respond. Despite your third generation agnostic Jewish heritage, your description of the people that come to see the Warsaw ghetto is clearly steeped in an ancient, Shylock-like stereotype of overbearing, hook-nosed Jews that can't get their grabby, greedy hands out of the gold pot. It's not helpful, and despite your limited experiences in one tiny corner of the planet, it's not accurately reflective of worldwide Jewry. It's a few tourists with bad behavior. Not to mention, it has not one iota to do with Israel and geopolitics. If the neo-cons want to take over the world and to use Israel in their plot, you can't blame regular workaday Jewish people. (Last time I checked, the adminstration was not overrun by Jews.) This kind of language feeds into an insane, violently racist energy espoused by neo-Nazis and people that believe in the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. It is hogwash. You're not the first person with Jewish genes to feed into self-hating beliefs after 5000 years of pogroms and ethnic cleansing, and you won't be the last. It's hard to see one's virtues when you're born into a sea of vitriol -- like an abused child. Terry's sarcasm wasn't nasty -- it was in response to an earlier racist comment by another poster, and it had to be addressed. I love this board, and it would be terribly sad if the conversation continued to devolve in this direction. Arent Astroworlders supposed to be seeking peace, justice and love? Posted by: stefanie on July 8, 2006 07:17 PMSince it's clear that there's still rabid anti-Jewish sentiment on the left, here's the book I mentioned earlier: I think it's extremely instructive for progressives right now, even though it was published in 1992. Posted by: stefanie on July 8, 2006 07:38 PMNamaste Posted by: Pat C on July 8, 2006 07:38 PMSo, Grizzly, I should get out of denial. I'm afraid not. I will deny the absurd view that Jews as a people are as violent as portraited here today. I will deny the voices that choose to classify all jews as this or that (including being rude and agressive as you intended with your story). I will deny the voices that proclaim any people as this or that. Down through time, it's been too easy to vilify whole groups of people and therefore the root cause of all that's wrong with the world. It's too easy to catagorize people and then dehumanize them and then... So Grizzly, you can call be childish, that's alright.You can call me in denial, that's all right too. I'm happy to speak out in a variety of tones, whatever the situation calls for. Sarcasm was the call of the day. Posted by: terry on July 8, 2006 07:46 PM New Links Between Abramoff and White House http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/070806X.shtml Lobbyist Jack Abramoff had a half-dozen White House appointments in the early months of the Bush administration, according to logs released yesterday by the US Secret Service. Posted by: Pat C on July 8, 2006 08:07 PMThis is really sad. My early teachers in the "movement" were Jews. Independence Day in New Orleans http://www.truthout.org/multimedia.htm On July 4, residents of the St. Bernard Public Housing Project planned to storm the barbed-wire fences and reoccupy their condemned homes. But the powers that be are finally willing to negotiate. Truthout correspondents Chris Hume and L. Wild Horse were at St. Bernard's for the first Independence Day since Hurricane Katrina. Israel's government doesn't represent all of Israel any more than the US government represents all Americans. Do any of you want to be associated with George Bush? I thought not. Palestine's government doesn't represent all Palestinians. The government is suppose to represent the people but it rarely does. It is governments and their manipulation of radicals that bring wars. Otherwise there would generally be peace. People are taught to hate. Posted by: Pat C on July 8, 2006 09:15 PM....and the band plays on. Posted by: Pat C on July 8, 2006 09:21 PMhttp://www.pamspaulding.com/weblog/2006/07/fundie-paper-gays-abortion-rights.html Christopher O'Brien @ Northstate Science uncovered a gem in a local paper, The Lassen County Times. It's an opinion piece by High Desert State Prison chaplain, Bill Ashmore. It's an opinion piece called "Signs of the Times, Judgement of America" and it's off the hook. The op-ed is not online (scan is below), but Christopher tells you all you need to know. ...take three guesses as to what this is all about. In a sentence: major earthquakes and environmental disasters (most notably hurricanes) are increasing because of gays and abortion-rights proponents. In effect, earthquakes are God's warnings that America is going to hell in a handbasket until we kill all the gays (I guess - he doesn't really offer a solution) and prevent all women from making any kind of reproductive decision. He cites frequently from John McTernan's book, God's Final Warning to America, and basically quotes bible verses supposedly foretelling coming disasters and points to not only increasing numbers of natural disasters but also the exact or close occurrence of these disasters with major abortion rights or gay pride rallies (apparently God's pissed off at the First Amendment...). Posted by: Pat C on July 8, 2006 09:36 PMWell, the jewish folk certainly aren't the only tribe or group to practice the cult of victimization whose other face on that coin is take-no-prisoners violence--they certainly won't be the last. I have felt like there was a difference... there certainly is among individuals... between the jewish folk & the many violent denizens of Israel, but these days, I'm not so sure. I still make a distinction between the semetic jew & the anglo jew like I do between the USians & the neocons... for instance, the anglo jewish guys that pack the bushaholic regime. And I have a feeling that no matter HOW MUCH land Israel might take for themselves because their god said they could, they'd always want more in their paranoia. Too bad the gays don't demand an ever-expanding country for themselves as they, also, were/are heavily attacked by the anglo nazis. Oh well... we shall carry on till we can't! ;O) Posted by: JoannaOregon on July 8, 2006 09:37 PMso much rage from apples talking to oranges. Grizzly, Israeli violence cannot be equated to ill mannered jews from around the world who visit emotional sites in Poland. I really dont claim to have much historical background, but i do know that jews were criticized in Germany for just doing what they were told and not fighting back. Is it any wonder that Israel will fight, with violence if necessary, to DEFEND its right to exist. I'm not jewish and i'm not a fundamentalist waiting for the right events to occur to be the catalyst for the rapture. I just had to comment because grizzly's argument just doesnt make the case. Posted by: on July 8, 2006 10:14 PMGloves off -- let's get real here. It is ignorant vitriol like the kind that Joannaoregon espouses that keeps the left from truly being what it could -- a powerful movement for peace and justice in the world. I've read Joregon's posts before, and the non-racist stuff has actually been pretty wise, so it's doubly disturbing to hear her making statements of total inaccuracy and ignorance. The Bush administration, first of all, is not even remotely "packed with Jews". Go down the list of the people with real power in the White House and you'll see that they aren't Jewish. And please, please get it through your head - just because a person is Jewish doesn't suggest that they have any ties to Israel -- there are a vocal and large group of Jews that are VERY critical of Israel (including myself). The minor number of Jewish people you find in positions of power is parrallel to the amount of Jewish people at large graduating law school, etc. Look at Congress, for instance, and break down the percentages - you'll find that your theories are conspiratorial and just plain wrong. The real cabal in the White House includes Cheney, Bush the Younger, Rumsfeld, Condi, et al. If you count all the current twenty-one members of the White House cabinet, only two are Jews. So please, if you're going to make such extreme accusations, get your facts straight. You are painting with a broad and ignorant brush and it's a serious disservice to the progressive and loving people here that want to make the world a better place. One more time, for the record: Israel and Jews are NOT the same entity. Stop using the word "Jewish" so loosely -- you are straying farther and farther from reality and beginning to sound like a skinhead. I almost didn't respond because racist rants like yours are probably best ignored, but I want you to at least consider educatiing yourself instead of posting hateful messages informed by nothing but inaccurate, senseless blather. The mix of astrology and progressive politics here is such a beautiful thing, and this sort of hate sullies it beyond recognition. Posted by: stefanie on July 8, 2006 10:29 PMJeeezzz... I think "rage" is a bit over the top, yes? I found grizzly's thots caused a feeling of gentle sadness in me & so highly valued them. I'll be exceedingly glad to see the end of the Cult of Rage, too... if we last that long. Posted by: JoannaOregon on July 8, 2006 10:45 PMLopez Obrador May Seek New Vote in Mexico http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/070806A.shtml Top aides to leftist candidate Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador called Friday for a recount of nearly half the votes cast in Sunday's presidential election and edged close to demanding that the entire vote be nullified. The statements by the Lopez Obrador camp revealed a two-part strategy to deny a victory to conservative Felipe Calderon. Posted by: Pat C on July 8, 2006 10:50 PMJOO no, rage is not over the top. Read again what is being said. There is nothing sad or gentle about his/her post read in its entirety. And again, said ad infinitum, can we pleeeez get back to politics and astrology. Take the extaneous stuff some place else. Posted by: on July 8, 2006 10:55 PMPNAC is still filled with neocon anglo jews & they still push bushian Israeli "policy" to Israel's mega-support at the huge expense of... say, the palestinian peoples. And there still is mega-violence while saying they're peaceful while they're not... & has been that way for a long time now. Just stating facts. All the upset feelings doesn't change that. Grizzy did a good job of pointing some of them out: Richard Perle, Max Boot, Doug Feith, David Frum, Bill Kristol, Dov Zakheim, Scooter Libby, Paul Wofowitze, etc, etc. Posted by: JoannaOregon on July 8, 2006 11:35 PMAnd is anyone counting all those people who are non Jews? How many are Christians? I bet there's a bunch of them. Posted by: lunaoscura on July 8, 2006 11:57 PMJOO -- I can only say this one more time without choking on my own vomit -- even if there are a few Jews connected to the Bush administration it does not mean they are doing the bidding of the Jewish public nor does it mean there is an Israeli/Jewish conspiracy. Too assume this is to assume that an entire ethic group has an "agenda" and that assumption is inherently racist no matter what group you aim it at. Many of the names in the list are former members of Bushco, and if you were to list everyone, including the non-Jews, you'd have a very long list within which Jews would comprise less than 1 percent. Where is the conspiracy there? You are so stuck on your theory that you refuse to look at the very easily researched reailty. You are not, indeed, stating anything even remotely related to facts in your posts. Please review your information, do some research, and reconsider your deeply held hatreds. The attached article discusses some of the origin of racism and anti-semitism on the left, and it might do you well to take a look: http://www.newint.org/issue372/fear.htm Posted by: stefanie on July 8, 2006 11:58 PMThis of off topic, but I'd like to help this to be spread as far and wide as possible. Autism, mercury, and politics MOUNTING EVIDENCE suggests that Thimerosal, a mercury-based preservative in children's vaccines, may be responsible for the exponential growth of autism, attention deficit disorder, speech delays, and other childhood neurological disorders now epidemic in the United States. Prior to 1989, American infants generally received three vaccinations (polio, measles-mumps-rubella, and diphtheria-tetanus-pertussis). In the early 1990s, public health officials dramatically increased the number of Thimerosal-containing vaccinations without considering the cumulative impact of the mercury load on developing brains. In a 1991 memo, Dr. Maurice Hilleman, one of the fathers of Merck's vaccination programs, warned his bosses that 6-month-old children administered the shots on schedule would suffer mercury exposures 87 times the government safety standards. He recommended that Thimerosal be discontinued and complained that the US Food and Drug Administration, which has a notoriously close relationship with the pharmaceutical industry, could not be counted on to take appropriate action as its European counterparts had. Merck ignored Hilleman's warning, and for eight years government officials added seven more shots for children containing Thimerosal. Mercury is a known brain poison, and autism rates began rising dramatically in children who were administered the new vaccine regimens. A decade ago the American Academy of Pediatrics estimated the autism rate among American children to be 1 in 2,500. Today, the CDC places the rate at 1 in 166, or 1 in 80 boys. Additionally, one in six children is now diagnosed with a related neurological disorder. In 2000, the CDC met with pharmaceutical companies and the FDA in secret to review its findings linking Thimerosal with the dramatic rise in neurological illnesses. According to transcripts, participants were alarmed about the undeniable links between the Thimerosal and widespread brain damage in children. Dr. Bill Weil told the group, ''You can play with [the results] all you want. They are statistically significant." Dr. Richard Johnston admitted he feared his grandchild getting a Thimerosal-containing vaccine. But the group was most concerned with keeping the findings secret. ''Consider this embargoed information," said Dr. Roger Bernier, a senior director at the National Immunization Program, at the meeting's close. The CDC now says it has ''lost" the data that supported the crucial study and has persistently defied congressional requests and federal law requiring it to open up the federal Vaccine Safety Database to scientists and the public. More... Posted by: Pat C on July 9, 2006 12:03 AMThis site used to be so peaceful - people could come and trade ideas on astrology and now it seems to be filled with hatred for each other's religious beliefs. Please stop! There is enough hatred and disagreement in the world without having a favorite site here torn apart with all this bickering over whose views on Jewish issues are right! Light a candle ... bring peace here and agree to just disagree and get over it. Posted by: Claire on July 9, 2006 12:09 AMLet's all wallow in our respective ethnic and cultural victimization! Let me remind us of "The Burning Times" Opps -- I forgot to mention -- Caligula and the Roman Empire Posted by: Philomena on July 9, 2006 12:19 AMYup! ...anglo xians are the most destructive by far, but it's the anglo that's the common factor imo. Mighty too few of them have transformed into the leafy GreenMan. Posted by: JoannaOregon on July 9, 2006 12:41 AMLet's not forget "slavery" in all of its forms -- A messy home is not a crime - eventually one can clean the latrine, do the laundry, mend the broken fence or wash the windows - but to massacre a village of innocent people for the financial benefit corporate stockholders is a crime against humanity without remedy except for revenge. okay, okay -- i need to quote william borroughs now: “do not proffer sympathy to the mentally ill. tell them firmly, ‘you are a terminal fool.’ otherwise they’ll make you as crazy as they are.” my aries sun/mars in capricorn sometimes gets the best of me. i forgot that one can't reason with insanity. i couldn't let the racism go, but i'm laying my arms down now. racists are just as free as anyone to express their opinions in a democratic forum, and you can't force people to learn when they wish to remain ignorant. i'm done for now - back to being a diplomatic libra rising (i was aiming for this at the start of this thread, but it went quickly sour and my warrior self emerged.) Posted by: stefanie on July 9, 2006 01:11 AMClaire, it's a disease and spreading. I lurk on a tropical weather blog, a bunch of science geeks, and it's the same thing. People everywhere are cranky, crouchy, pointy finger at this group, that group, if its not religion, it's immigration, or some other hot topic. It's worldwide, I heard there was a magnetic storm or read somewhere and that too may be playing with peoples psyche's. Way too much anger everywhere, makes one stop and go humm? This too shall pass. Me, I know I'm cranky, it's still 98 degree's out. Posted by: Morgana on July 9, 2006 01:13 AMstefanie -- you are truly "stuck" in your over inflated ethnic ego! Knowledge is power -- truth is relative and facts are facs. It is truly sad that you appear to lack any empathy for others (who are not Jewish) who suffered fates as worse or ever more horrific. Take a chill pill little one! It helps with one to deal with denial and ethnocentricity. Posted by: Philomena on July 9, 2006 01:16 AMphilomena -- had you actually read any of my earlier postings you would know that i have tremendous empathy for all ethnic/religious groups, that i support a palestinian state, and that often criticize israel. I'm WAY on the left of the israeil/palestian conflict. i was just pointing out that even on the left, where i have been a committed and passionate advocate since i was a teen, you can still find pockets of seething racism, and i have sadly found it here. accusing any race, religion, nation, or ethnic group of a singular viewpoint or tendency is racist and needs to be addressed by those of us that believe in human rights and the equality of all beings. my point was that israel does not equal jewish -- something that a lot of people still don't seem to get. and i found it particularly frustrating that certain posters made the same fraudulent claim that the bush administration and pnac are "packed with jews". this is not a matter of opinion -- a simple google search will show anyone that this is untrue. Posted by: stefanie on July 9, 2006 01:27 AMDear Stefanie, I applaud your well thoughtout, and articulated posts. Unfortunately they apparently fall on deaf ears. Many people just read into comments what they want to, and then move onto post there own agendas. Oh well it is what it is, but it's nice to read a concise, thoughtful post that expresses a different point of view. I wanted you to know that someone "out here" appreciatees it. Posted by: terry on July 9, 2006 01:52 AMPhilomena All these exchanges (of course!) are truly reflecting the current planetary positions. There's a reflection in all the planets, but some show more about what's going on here than others. Pluto, for instance, has just moved off Sag 26: A Flag Bearer in a Battle backwards onto Sag 25: A Chubby Boy on His Hobbyhorse. We're all 'flag-bearers' for our opinions and 'chubby boys on hobbyhorses' with our right to sit in our comfortable homes and express them. (and three cheers for boards like this where we CAN express them!!!) Fabulous. I think it's fine that we've descendend into this chat, it gets things out... we have a chance to think about things and learn from others, even if we can't quite see why they say the things they do. Mercury is probably the biggest teller of the story at the moment... it went retrograde on Leo 2: An Epidemic of Mumps - Remembering the post above about immunization, and there was even a post from PatC (brilliant wording, I loved it!) with a mention of 'rashes', these are the keywords (from my book 360 Degrees of Wisdom) for that Sabian Symbol: Commentary: ‘An Epidemic of Mumps’ can indicate a situation, illness or event that is affecting a number of people. An ‘Epidemic’ is something contagious, like an illness that is racing throughout the populace or raging through a chain of friends or family. Although it can affect people on a large scale, it may have started with just one person. The disease ‘Mumps’ can lead to sexual impotence, in men it can literally happen, and a feeling of being ineffectual and useless. As it is an 'Epidemic', it will pay to nip it in the bud. It may, however, have to run its course. Oracle: In the situation facing you, this Symbol can talk about the literal spread of disease, but it can also symbolize news or gossip, e.g., a story that’s gotten completely out of control. This “infecting influence” could be affecting you or someone else in the group, and it is likely to be spreading regardless of whether anybody wants it to. This situation, or “disease”, needs to be harnessed as soon as possible, as this ‘Epidemic’ may spread fear or upset to all those involved and further afield. The situation may indeed get worse before it gets better. Finding the origin of the “infection”, or the extent of it’s spread or how far it has reached will go a long way to resolving the situation. It can at least act to slow it down so it can lose energy and dissipate. Therefore it can be important to discover the facts about how or when it started, or perhaps how best to stop it. There may be a need for some kind of separation or isolation, and then some time for recovery. Remember that laughter can be infectious. Spread joy and love instead of fear and worry! Keywords: Hysterical feelings. Ideas of immunity. Things getting out of control. Common threads that link people and places. Infectious diseases. Medicine and cures. Discovering the truth of a situation and acting accordingly. Viruses and bacterial infections spreading. Rumors. Colds. Flu. Fear in general. The cat let out of the bag. The need for 'immunization'. The need for hygeine. Isolating causes of problems. Vaccinations. Outbreaks. Blood tests. Tumors. Measles. Chicken pox. The Caution: Fear of bad health. Hypochondria. Rampaging gossip. Widespread fear or upset. Stories that get out of control. Rashes and skin problems. Deprivation. Hiding one’s self away for fear of contagion. Fear of sharing one’s self with others. Obsession with health. Embarrassment. Impotence. Contagious thoughts. Negative thinking and compulsive actions. The complications of disease. Media frenzies. Problems that multiply with alarming speed. Right now, Mercury is on Leo 1: A Man is Under Emotional Stress and Blood Rushes to His Head. Keywords for this include: Becoming all fired-up, charging off in all directions at once. Nervous breakdowns. Not acting like one's usual self. Events comingn to a head. Feeling like one will explode at any moment. The Caution: Becoming ill through emotional suppression. Losing one’s cool. Going off the deep end. Lack of self-restraint. Taking things too seriously. Grumpiness and irritability. Not knowing how to act or respond. Difficulty containing emotional reactions. Unable to make accurate decisions due to irrational thoughts. Sunburn. Next, Mercury will move backwards onto Cancer 30: A Daughter of the American Revolution... things are likely to heat up even more. The movement backwards will include Cancer 28: An Indian Gril Introduces Her College Boyfriend to Her Assembled Tribe. This speaks of bringing people together from different ethnic groups, socio economic levels, educational levels, etc. Acceptance and love is the key. Next, Mercury will move backwards onto Cancer 27: A Furious Storm in a Canyon Filled With Valuable Homes... this being the degree of GWB's Saturn is likely to be an interesting time, as will the forward pass over this degree. Again, apologies for the long posts... someone please let me know if it's not ok to take up so much space!! From DownUnder.... Posted by: Lynda Hill on July 9, 2006 01:55 AMstefanie -- my apologies! But perhaps if we accept the fact that EVERYONE -- no matter who or what they claim to be -- have a teeny tiny bit of racism in their soul~ This is called the shadow. Another point is -- that no state can commit crimes against humanity without the consent of the majority within their rule. Man's humanity against man is the oldest crime on the books. Nothing will change this -- unless and until we change our perceptions of blaming this group or that group to be the origins the crimes. We are all maggots in the bucket of the worlds mud -- and unless and until I see a "naked truth" walk through the streets -- I will always be a cynical fool with an attitude -- knowing full well that my words are as meaningless as a book written on the wind. Once and for all -- we must stop scapegoating others for the same crimes that lurk in our hearts -- should we be honest enough to confess them -- at least to ourself in the dark night of the soul's journey through hell on earth. This ain't paradise -- but it is for now the only home and hearth we have -- let's respect our own and all others. Stephanie, perhaps you haven't heard of Leo Strauss, who taught all the neocons? At U of Chicago? Ex Nazi? Perhaps you haven't followed , years ago, the Seymore Hersh pieces in the New Yorker on who were the movers and shakers and shapers at the beginnning of this cursed administration? Some of these people (listed by Grizzley), like Perle, like our current directorr of homeland security, are DUAL citizens of both Israel and America....and running our government....Mossad has obviously had much do do with 9/11, etc....Everyone here has been quite careful to make sure that what they have posted about is in concern over the role that Israel is playing (for the last 40 years)....NOT anti jewish blathering. That is YOUR interpretation, thru your own lens. In my opinion, you and terry need some rage control....Joanna is not a racist. That is a really tempting thing to throw around....but it only insures that you, as self confessed Jews of whatever stripe, are adding to your own problems by calling people racists. Grizzley, have you found the Poles to be as anti Jewish as I have heard? ( A strong Catholic country, lots of hatred for Jews; I too have a personal story on that one, with a Jewish friend as the victim.) People here hate the Chinese, too....because they are rude, bad drivers, etc...and will throw their own mothers on the street (or a crippled child) to get first on the bus. My my....guess there are just all kinds of people in the world. Some rude, some insufferable. Guess we'd just better get used to it. But until I hang a nigger from a tree, don't call me a racist! There...could I be any more unpleasant?????? Well frankly, some people here come close. Stephanie I just want to add into the equation a question for whoever might resonate with it: IF we'd been speaking here about the horrors of what the Palestinians had done, that they are terrorists who deserve to be punished, are lower than low, etc, (which, of course their actions are!!) and we were generally tearing shreds off 'the arabs', what type of reaction would we have seen on this board? I can't imagine in my wildest dreams what it's like to be a muslim, heck, an arab. Not all arabs are muslims, of course, but just to have that swarthy complexion is probably akin to profiling one as a terrorist. How horrible! I would venture to say that it's a far worse thing in this current day and age to be a muslim with the huge emotional baggage they have to carry than just about anything else. What we've done here in Australia to refugees from countries in the middle east is abombinable (excuse the pun)... shocking and reprehensible. We've locked them up and punished them... Gitmo is far worse, even, and many of the people who are languishing in there are likely to be innocent of any crimes. There's been reports that many were just taken off the streets. What happened to vast numbers of Taliban fighters (not all of whom were into the Taliban cause at all, they just wanted a job that gave them a meal) in Afghanistan is too horrible to contemplate... they were loaded into cargo containers and the back of enclosed trucks and left to fry in the desert heat.... the story goes on... I'll spare everyone the gruesome details. As I'm sure you agree, the terror perpetrated on people everywhere is to be reviled. The sad thing for us, regardless of who we are or where we're from is that we're sitting watching as the world goes nuts and people are persecuted left right and centre. In amongst it all, we're trying to rationalize what's going on and there is no rationalization! None, from where I'm standing. It's all terrible and it seems to me that the guys who are standing at the uppermost helm are the Christians. Something interesting to note in addition to the Sun of both Israel and the End of the British Mandate is on Taurus 24: The Indian Warrior Riding Fiercely With Scalps Hanging at His Belt is the fact that that degree is also the Chiron of the Third Reich... seems like that image is being taken forward into what is now Israel, the Occupied Territories, etc. Further, the Chiron degree of Israel is all but exactly opposite the Chiron of the Third Reich. It sits at Scorpio 22: Hunters Protected by Heavy Clothing are Shooting Wild Ducks... this is a very evocative degree... Palestinian kids fighting back with stones.. all that. Posted by: Lynda Hill on July 9, 2006 02:10 AMSorry...post so little now, that was me...Morgana, a friend of mine in Ohio had some interesting feedback on how heated everyone is....and he was dealing with a radical revisionist America hating (Christian and Jewish ) hating Muslim, etc....there seems to be a convulsive downloading of anger which seems safe on the (illusionary) protection of blogs. Peole seem to forget that they answer only to their own spirit in the end. God gave us the free will to do with as we want....but we answer in the end. Nothing like a full moon for fun.... Posted by: judiGem on July 9, 2006 02:12 AMYou know, all the norte europeans are descended from haplogroups (mtDNA markers H,T,U,V,W, and X (which is also the Alconquin tribal marker in the US, but that's another story)....this group arose in Mesopotamia....the cradle of civilization, modern day Iraq/Iran. They migrated to western europe. Everyone of European descent in all of western europe bears these markers (mine is most likely U4). This was 25,000 years ago....so there you have it, we Americans who are of European descent are directly out of Arabia. Perhaps all the violence, the pushing and the shoving and the killing is because of those particular genes....and perhaps we are also the most optomistic folk too....and certainly, the people of the middle east are our brothers. Well....live is all maya anyway....so everyone, just enjoy the differences. We all go to the same place when we die....back to the earth. Posted by: judiGem on July 9, 2006 02:21 AMphilomena -- apology accepted. i am right there with you -- the shadow is a strong and powerful force. by no means did i suggest that jews are entitled to play the suffering card more than any other group. in fact, one of the things i said in my original post was that i'm the first to admit that israel has blood on its hands. it's just that a reflexive quality has emerged on the left (has always been there to a certain extent, but i was alarmed to find it here at astroworld) that suggests i's okay to blame the jewish collective (and individual lone jews) for the sins of the israeli gov't. this sort of talk easily bleeds into a sanctioned kind of racist diatribe -- some on the left think it's okay to scapegoat jews because they're also white. no need for me to go through the whole argument again. all groups deserve the same respect, honor, dignity and human rights. i'd stand up the same way for anyone under attack. and honestly -- this is because i'm jewish. from the get-go i've really understood the energy of oppression and violence, and therefore the fight for justice for all groups everywhere is my fight. learned a lot from reading audre lorde, toni morrison, zora neale hurston -- black women writers that expanded my consciousness and made me understand myself as a jew in ways i never had before. but all of this is just shadow dancing -- we're all swimming in the same soup and i could have been born on any continent into any circumstance. i see this forum as a space for consciousness raising, and i have learned much from lurking here. i came out of the shadows today because i sensed a descent into not just into dissent, something i condone, but into hate. can't be idle in the midst of something like that -- and i think most of us here feel the same way. Posted by: stefanie on July 9, 2006 02:23 AMJust can't believe the hatred spinning around on this board. There is nothing that can justify being just plain mean or nasty to other people, especially those that seem to come here under the assumption that you share a common interest in astrology. I don't care what the weather is or the position of the planets, etc etc - mean is mean and nothing can excuse bad manners, period.If so many of you are here seeking answers as to why there is no peace in the world or between our leaders maybe you should stop and see how each of you is only adding to the hatred by the way you treat others on this board or by your nasty comments about those of other races or religions. It's really appalling to read this post after post! you can't expect the world to change if you cannot change the hatred in yourselves - I'm off here until you learn to get along! Posted by: Claire on July 9, 2006 02:28 AMstefanie -- trust me -- there is no descent into a racial (antisemitic) scapegoating on this blog. That is "paranoia" -- as it is paranoia to claim that the left is shifting into a *anti-semitic* body politic. That is a patently absurd observation -- regardless of the fact that the esteemed Rabbi Michael Lerner wrote an article implying such in "Tikkun". One thing we must keep in mind about person's who deem their opinion to be held in high regard is that -- they have a reason for planting a seed of doubt. It could be based on fears -- justified or unjustified -- power over their audience -- or perhaps their own subjective way of creating a divisive -- us against them - mentality. Calling the left anti-semitic is like calling your mother a whore -- it is inflammatory w/ no basis in fact. Open discussion will always bring out the rats in the walls of any group. stefanie -- could you please enlighten me as to what post or who expressed hate toward you or Jews in a post on this blog? As facts will support a case of what constitutes hate and anti-semitism much better than long winded conjecture or innuendo.
Claire dear -- if you are looking for your disowned shadow (please don't attack us for being real - perhaps you should look in the mirrow. She is begging to be acknowledged and accepted for being merely human -- with flaws and a beauty that can only be seen in the reflection of your soul. in response to the anonymous poster at 2:06 am that mentioned leo strauss and the neo-cons and seymour hersh's pieces. of course i know all about this. but if you do the math, meaning, if you look at the entirety of the bush adminstration, past and present members of the cabinet and staff, jews are a minority, just like they're a minority in the wider world. the only two on the current cabinet are bolton and chertoff -- that's out of twenty-one people. someone said that the adminstration is "packed with jews". i was trying to point out the illegitmacy of this claim. and i must add, that even if the administration had more than fifty percent of a jewish presence (which it does not and has never had) it still woudln't indicate a jewish conspiracy. there aren't a bunch of jews sitting around in synogogues twirling their mustaches and plotting how to take over the world. it is more a case of a few people that HAPPEN to be jewish rather than a case of a jewish plan. leo strauss may have influenced the thinking of the neo-cons, but this does not mean it's a jewish movement. it is merely because jews are such a minority that their presence in even a limited way in any sector of society is often considered striking and seen as domination. crunch the numbers and you'll see what's really going on. and in terms of the mossad and 9/11 -- do you also beleive that all the jews who worked in the world trade center were called the night before and warned not to go to work? because i can tell you for a fact that's insane conspiracy theory, as my very close friend was on the 72nd floor of tower 2, and he's a jew. anyway, dear astroworlders, i'm too exhausted to keep defending my logic and point of view. much love and light to you all. namaste. Posted by: stefanie on July 9, 2006 02:44 AMIn regard to hidden agendas being played out in the big wide world and by whom and what their racial profile is... I have a suspicion that if we really knew what was going on in the world, who really pulls the strings and controls the agenda, it would shock the cotton socks of most of us. We can only really imagine what the truth may be, speculate and try not to point fingers. In the end, as I'm sure most of us agree as well, we are from the same soup, as judiGem so well put. As a young Australian girl, I was gripped by a passion to go to Iraq. I went there in 1976 and loved it. I went on one of those overland bus tours with a bunch of Australians, Brits, Americans, etc, etc. There was 36 of us on a big bus careening across Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Syria, Israel, Egypt, Turkey and on through Europe. Iraq was exquisite. I absolutely loved it and was amazed at the cities and the beautiful people. They were warm and welcoming and the trip was everything and more I could have imagined. Jordan was the other country that gripped me. Indeed, I felt like I"d come home when I arrived in Petra. As it turned out several years later when I got into astrology and then started specializing in the Sabian Symbols, I found out that the people of Petra, the Nabateans, had migrated north and had been the descendants of the Sabians, who are thought to have been the vehicle of the mind-set behind the Sabian Symbols... On that trip in 1976, we were in Israel for Easter weekend, arriving on Good Friday. One man had a heart attack right in front of me on the bus crossing over from Jordan. He was a Jordanian and the excitement was far too much for him. This land evokes so many different responses in people but it's essentially the one response... at least it feels that way to me... one of longing... one of returning... and a sense of be-longing. Something like that... Ok now. These are lovely posts. Thanks! Posted by: Pat C on July 9, 2006 02:52 AMphilomena -- just to answer you as i've posted already way too much today -- there were several offensive posts throughout the day, a few from Joannaorgegon and one from grizzly, that were blatantly racist and anti-semitic. grizzly's first lambasted the jewish tourist in warsaw, where he lives. "Unfailingly, the people who come are in the great majority quite rude and aggressive; possessing for some inexplicable reason an overbearing sense of entitlement.." then he proceeded to compare this to the actions of the pnac and the bush adminitration, only naming the jews and not any of the other myriad members. i think it's fairly easy to derive a racist tone from this. it was in response to a comment that terry had made in response to something joanna orgegon had said about jews whining too much. then the same line about pnac was repeated several times. next, JOO said this regarding jews advocating violence: Yes, they do. The violence can be seen in Israel from its original inception to today's "return" has been right smack dab in everyone's face... tho it's part of any group's or individual's obsessive addictive pattern of behavior to deny the obvious. "Now, if those 'Others' wouid just behave the way I SEE it & give in to MY holy specialness, then I'D BE SAFE & everything would be wonderful." ...the ultimate rationalization of any addict's cachet of rationalizations." i can't be lumped into the group she's describing, nor can any of my collegues, friends and family that happen to be jewish. the glove just doesn't fit. it was again a case of accusing all jews of the evils of the israeli gov't, and at the same time saying that all jews have some claim to "holy specialness". since i am not religious, and haven't made a pilgrimage to my "holy land", it's not fair to assume i am in this group just because i was born jewish. it's anti-semitic at the core. lastly, i'm in a large, vocal group of non-jews and jews when i call members of the left (not the whole left) anti-semitic. there is a long, complex history of this, and many groups are working to end it. i love the left, i am a proud card-carrying member, and this is why it breaks my heart to run into people that reflexively hate jews at anti-war rallies and online. here's a link to one group that exists for the purpose of addressing anti-semitism on the left: http://www.facingachallenge.com/porupus.htm you can find many, many more people of all stripes concerned about this issue by googling "anti-semitism and the left" Posted by: stefanie on July 9, 2006 03:06 AMI posted "PNAC is still filled with neocon anglo jews...," stefanie... not "pnac are 'packed with jews'". I like to be quoted accurately as would anyone. Saaaaayy... with your astro makeup, I'll bet we'll be friends a bit further down the time-road as I sport a libra asc/sun. ;O) Posted by: JoannaOregon on July 9, 2006 03:38 AM
When Philomena says: "Another point is -- that no state can commit crimes against humanity without the consent of the majority within their rule," I'd like to respond that there are terrorist Jewish groups within Israel that oppose the peace movement but I believe the majority of people were for peace UNTIL the wave of suicide bombings. I believe Menachem Began was killed because he was in favor of peace. Sharon was elected because Israelis wanted to feel safe. He wasn't a great choice and I was disappointed but I understood. Also, consider what a State should do when infiltrated by suicide bombers, whether they are the desperate representatiive of people who are being horribly treated, or whether they are brainwashed by jihadists who feel revolution in the only option (I recently saw "The Lost City" and felt the tragedy of the Cuban revolution - the revolutionaries turned out to be the same or worse than the corrupt regime they surplanted). Joanna, when you said: " 'Now, if those 'Others' wouid just behave the way I SEE it & give in to MY holy specialness, then I'D BE SAFE & everything would be wonderful.' ...the ultimate rationalization of any addict's cachet of rationalizations," I think this was pretty much a generalization and generalizations can be classified as "racist." Lynda, you know that little jaunt you took through the Mideast? That's the kind of thing I'd love to do, but I'd never dare reveal my Jewish identity and, thus, wouldn't be able to really enjoy it in a free way. This is not just due to Israel's current policies but goes back to the fact that Jews are not welcome in the Mideast. So, on that note, I think we should agree to disagree. Greater and deeper minds than ours have tried to solve this situation. War, murder, killing, finger pointing is the cheap and easy way out. It is self-restraint that will take us to the next stage of evolution. Posted by: Sharon on July 9, 2006 03:43 AMstefanie -- Has it ever occurred to anyone that we are all *DEEPLY WOUNDED* by an unconscious inhumanity in all realms of our commonly shared illusion -- we dare call the body-mind politic! The Mossad is well known as being the most efficient killing machine agency in the world -- by way of deception thou shalt do war -- that is the motto of the Mossad (the institution) -- the CIA - MI6 AND DEFUNCT KGB only wished they had the Mossad *chutzpah* to not only pull off -- but get away with false flag black ops and no blow-back in the international political political playpen -- that is. How many UN resolutions has Israel thumbed its nose too? In my humble opinion -- Israel -- the creation of the Rothschild family (was initially for the purpose of seizing land where the Suez Canal was to be built) -- has nothing to do with saving Euro Jews or establishing Zion -- it was a banking geopolitical decision -- that eventually paid off with the discovery of oil in the Mideast. PS the Star of David is not a Hebrew symbol -- it was the symbol of the House of Rothschild -- meaning RED STAR! The actual symbol of the two triangles interlocked is the tantric symbol for the heart chakra -- nowhere in ancient Hebrew is this symbol found -- not even in the Qabalah - Are you intimate with the true and naked reality of WILL TO POWER? Do you think that any political group - left - right - center or all of the three in one care one iota about you or me -- be we a It is about Centralized POWER -- COLLECTIVE POWER concentrated in a pseudo - ideology of *us against them*! How do you mind control -- strip of all humanity from the individual -- stick him or her in a debt ridden box -- dumb down -- medicate - fake out - mind fu*k -- w/o even so much as a kiss goodnight or of death? It is done by *scapegoating* -- using the good in the individual to effect evil -- and claiming it is a NOBLE LIE -- the necessary reality to carry out the business of state by the Corporate Princes of Multinational shapeshifting. It is what it is -- we are slaves who give our masters consent to rule the world as they see fit -- for their own consolidated financial power. It is the way of the Pluto fascist -- the ultimate winner -- no matter what side wins or loses -- Plutocrats NEVER lose -- they merely pick up their private Lear jets -- and fly to the next corporate gambit. Knowing who is in and who is out long before they arrive to their next killing field. There is no mercy in this world -- only RESOURCES to be captured -- owned and controlled. Power of the people is a myth -- and we all know that myths do not make a world reasonable or sane -- they merely reveal the truth in all of its *resounding godlike thunder and lightning*. Sorry to burst your bubble. Rent the movie MATADOR -- Posted by: Philomena on July 9, 2006 03:50 AM And I never posted "...accusing all jews of the evils of the Israeli gov't..." I posted only "Israel," & you're right, that's not "all jews." Posted by: JoannaOregon on July 9, 2006 03:51 AMyou can find many, many more people of all stripes concerned about this issue by googling "anti-semitism and the left" Posted by: stefanie on July 9, 2006 03:06 AM yes, and I'm sure RWers are responsible for putting alot of stuff there! Joanna said ISRAEL... she did not say Jews... "Yes, they do. The violence can be seen in Israel from its original inception to today's "return" has been right smack dab in everyone's face... tho it's part of any group's or individual's obsessive addictive pattern of behavior to deny the obvious. "Now, if those 'Others' wouid just behave the way I SEE it & give in to MY holy specialness, then I'D BE SAFE & everything would be wonderful." ...the ultimate rationalization of any addict's cachet of rationalizations." Joanna also, along with most on this board accuses BUSHCO of being violent (Iraq, torture, Gitmo, etc., etc.)... that is not to say Americans are those things... Stephanie, you attacked Joanna... you did not stick to the issue... Joanna is none of those things you suggest. What is going on in Gaza now is collective punishment... it is a war crime... one would think the Israel government, knowing the history of Germany and collective punishment would abhor such a thing... How can one condemn BushCO and condone Israel? Mind boggling, to say the least. Posted by: Jo on July 9, 2006 03:52 AMhey joanna -- my libra asc. makes me really hate the fighting and stuff, but i'm quoting you directly here from an earlier post: "for instance, the anglo jewish guys that pack the bushaholic regime." i just wanted it to get through that israel doesn't = jew, and that the presence of a few random jews in the bush adminstration is no more significant than the presence of random catholics, protestants, buddhists or native americans. the ones that are there are there because they're conservative assholes. and there are assholes of every background. the rest, my dears, is pure conspiracy. it seems that on both sides of the political spectrum, the jews are singled out as doing something conspiratorial when they appear in halls of power. (hollywood on the right or washington on the left.) we can all argue about the bad policies of israel, the bad policies of the us, and the bad policies of saudi arabia, for that matter, but let's separate out jews, americans, and arabs -- the people that happen to populate these countries. i didn't vote for sharon, and neither did the millions of other jews that don't live in israel. for that matter, it's a democracy, and plenty of people voted for meretz and the labor party there. many, many jews want an end to the occupation. there are a bunch of crazy settlers, but no one should be mislead, they do not speak for the majority of jews. i'm probably not very articulate as i'm very tired, but i hope this all makes sense. Posted by: stefanie on July 9, 2006 04:00 AMstefanie -- let me go down on record saying that nobody hates Jews or Palestinians -- and anyone who falls in between the cracks. But I do not care for rabid Zionists or extremists of any stripe -- who feel they have more right or privilege to get away with mass murder in this day and age. The irony of the matter is in the past -- most megalomaniac where individuals -- but in this day and age -- it is States w/ killing machine intelligence agencies who are imputed w/ power to *disable* anyone or any state who interfere w/ corporate profit. I guess we have all been reduced to a bottom line -- in nature it is referred to as "culling the herd" Never apologize for speaking your truth -- and never go to bed angry -- it will only make for a bad night's sleep. And dream land is very important for the soul. Sleep well stefanie -- we love you for your true spunk -- its takes real courage to stand up for one's truth. "Israel has worked damn hard to be where they are today,..." gosh, sharon... & "where" is that? Bright Blessings, philo... you forgot wiccan! How COULD you?!? ;O) Yup... none of us is treated any more or less than a biounit resource by olies/pluties, who don't give a damn who or what we think we are. I remember when in corpo offices... early 80s was it?... "Personnel" was changed to "Human Resources." Gave me the creeps. Reminded me of the film "Soylent Green." http://movies.msn.com/movies/movie.aspx?mp=v&m=67995 Posted by: JoannaOregon on July 9, 2006 04:13 AMHallooo, Jo!! Nice to "SEE" you!!! Thanks for your support, Seesta; however, I love your posts on whatever subject! Posted by: JoannaOregon on July 9, 2006 04:19 AMCan y'all set a time-table for when the hostilities will cease amongst you so the rest of us will know when we can come back? That would be nice. Thnx. Posted by: shylurker on July 9, 2006 04:23 AMthis is my last post tonight, i swear to god. i NEVER once condoned israel, jo. never once. i condemn the occupation and israeli policies on palestians. i have always believed in a palestinian state and i'm way to the left of most jews on these issues. and yes, if you scroll back up, you will see that JOO used the word jews in several places, as did grizzly. there was definitely wide insinuation that jews have a victim mythology that they don't deserve to have, that they should grow up and get over the holocaust, and from grizzly, that jews are loud, obnoxious, and rude. there is a long and ugly history this kind of sentiment on the left, and i only brought it up today because i didn't expect to find it here, a place i consider safe and a kind of home. philomena, i have no bubbles left for you to burst. i am fully aware of the plutonian will to power and know full well how ugly the collective unconscious has become. i am well-versed in the secret and poweful tactics of the mossad, but once again, this says nothing about jews and jewish people. nothing, zero, zilch, no relationship whatsoever. israelis are extremely paranoid, surrounded by countries that since its inception have declared that they are opposed to its existence, hence, the mossad was born. but let us not confuse the mossad with the will or desire of jews. it's a secret military arm of a political movement, and has nothing to do with jews or jewishness. there is a lot of crazy stuff all over the web, and it's easy for even well-intentioned, tolerant people to get caught up in some of the wild theories people have cooked up since 9//11. often these theories implicate jews, just because they're an easy target. i urge anyone that thinks the mossad had something to do with 9.11 to seek more information, because many jews died on that day. i watched the towers burn and fall from my street, and i know that many jews were killed. neo-nazi groups want to entrap tolerant people in their bizzarre web of lies, and as per usual, jews are easy targets. they have been for five thousand years, through the feudal era, to the inquisition and the holocaust. phiomena is right when she says that we have no idea who pulls the strings, but i tell you one thing -- it ain't the jews. Posted by: stefanie on July 9, 2006 04:26 AMI'm referring to agricultural production, development of software, electronic and biomedical equipment, medical research and advances, the education and economy in general, the absorption of Russian Jews, many of whom were highly educated, etc. Hadassah Hospital, which I support as a lifetime member of Hadassah, is known for it's high level of care and its lifesaving services delivered to both Jewish and Palestinian patients with no favorism shown. There has been some important developments announced lately in stem cell research. I remember, too, about the same time when the newest & most exciting dithering bidness book came out (can't remember the title), but I picked it up to have a lookie. It was about starting a company... all in the new capital letters, exclamation points, & lists of talking points... in the up & coming NONPROFIT HELPING FIELDS & FOUNDATIONS & how wildly profitable it was! What was to be done was use women almost exclusively as employees because they would work for free (volunteers) or for very small wages since, after all, it "helped" people. Cynical & nasty?!? You bet!! But we don't want to prevent pink supremacist malebots from becoming rich! It's their god-given right (or something like that)! Alas... I am a genderist when it comes to skin heads & corpo piggies. Posted by: JoannaOregon on July 9, 2006 04:29 AMKa = spirit KaBAllah This is the Semitic mother tongue used by Hebrews - Arabs respectively. In linguistics and ethnology, Semitic (from the Biblical name "Shem") was first used to refer to a language family of largely Middle Eastern origin, now called the Semitic languages. This family includes the ancient and modern forms of Amharic, Arabic, Aramaic, Akkadian, Hebrew, Maltese, Syriac, Tigrinya, etc. As language studies are interwoven with cultural studies, the term also came to describe the extended cultures and ethnicities, as well as the history of these varied peoples as associated by close geographic and linguistic distribution. The late 19th century term "anti-Semitism" came to be used in reference specifically to anti-Jewish sentiment, further complicating the understood meaning and boundaries of the term. Such usage, as well the advent of population genetics, against which other once-useful ethnic terms show a biasing imprecision, has led to much debate about its scope and usefulness in science. PS -- Ashkenazi Jews are NOT Semites. No offense intended. Posted by: Philomena on July 9, 2006 04:30 AMI LOVE leafy GreenMen however. I'm showing an ex-pink supremacist the ropes now... he's worn out with the old ways/days... & he'll make a fine GreenMan. He's really pretty, too. ;O) Posted by: JoannaOregon on July 9, 2006 04:32 AMJoanneO -- we must be all wise and keep the essential *wicker* of the sacred flame low -- so as to give off its soft amber glow -- for the animated shadows of its gentle light to dance long through the dark night and give the walls of our imaginary caves a moon likw mysterious halo. \|/ You may already have seen this, someone just sent it to me... http://costofwar.com/index.html obscene. I think that when we have so much obscenity going on and so much suffering in so many places on so many levels, we are at a loss to find the right balance between stating our truth and ending up in an argument. It's just so hard nowadays to keep a level head as it's such an uncertain world. When I get depressed about what's going on, which is happening more and more lately regardless of my knowing that one has to keep a positive attitude, I find that knowing that so many people are suffering doesn't make me feel any better.... people will say "well, count your blessings" and "you're a lucky person"... well, YES!!, I am extremely lucky but it's hard to feel the pleasures associated with that when one is a sensitive, porous (sp?) person such as myself and I know many people are. I think the feeling of impotence, irrelevance and the impossibility of making any serious changes to anything renders us far more emotional and prone to knee jerk responses.... at least I know it does for me. Obviously, we can make a difference somehow by helping others out, etc, and perhaps turning off the news would help, but being a political animal that feels like a citizen of the world, I find it impossible and the more I figure I should turn off the news, the more I tune in!! Posted by: Lynda Hill on July 9, 2006 04:42 AMone of the sadder things about the rift betwen jews and muslims is that there are so many shared cultural customs, showing that we're truly siblings (with a rivalry going back thousands of years.) many of the laws of kashrut (being kosher) are similar to halal rules. circumcision, etc. and most important, that both jews and muslims are supposed to believe in one powerful god of compassion. yahweh/allah. i wish more groups of jews and muslims could just sit down in rooms together and break bread and talk about all the things they have in common, because damn, there's a lot. Posted by: stefanie on July 9, 2006 04:44 AMHi yourself Joanna... tMars is conj my nPallas at the moment... hope I didn't come across too strongly! and the Sabian Symbol for 22 Leo is "A carrier pigeon fulfilling its mission." America has been violent since its inception... Many Americans today are lamenting the loss of their country, changes, etc. In fact, nothing about it has changed... we are simply 'seeing' it now for what it is... and has always been... Guess you can call me anti-American for saying that, huh? "The Way is not difficult for one without preferences (attachments)" Labels are attachments... we cling to our 'labels' --- and they keep us separate... namaste Posted by: Jo on July 9, 2006 04:46 AMI think the wiccans should go take a homeland among a huge group of dominionist xians... Colorado, Florida... TaHA! That lil project would no doubt require no end of work, effort, tears & many, many big guns. Posted by: JoannaOregon on July 9, 2006 04:47 AMIn the meantime.............How ARE YOU DOING (((((CAPT. SALLY?))))) Last I remember you went off to help your daughter during emergency surgery, & she was very ill. Lynda -- In a sinking ship -- one hand clasping another is the only way for both or all to survive. May I extend my hand to you and all other's on board. Let's not cave to the negative (perhaps let it touch us just enough to give us a true insight into the vortex of its bureaucratic monstrosity) --I learned a long time ago -- when subjected to neo fascistic American politics -- in a way that I will not go into detail -- that it is up to the individual to keep their head and heart in a animistic plane -- where one feels connected to the absolutely divine nature of being -- it is Neptunian -- but the kind of Neptune that does not deceive -- where you receive nurturing on a soul level -- and one can actually -- let go and let live -- and be. I experienced it as the authentic web of life - weaved with subtle threads of light - dark - mystery - profound. And then the oh so mundane. I found it in moments of artistic frustration -- resourceful survival -- connecting with others -- not knowing how to share wisdom -- but letting your soul speak when called -- letting the void have it say -- paying attention to details -- paying attention to nothing -- routine awakening. Letting my consciousness shift -- but keeping it a total secret whilst I observed the soap operas of my realities unfold. We are all in a state of suspended animation. As if we are waiting for something to break the spell. Never in my life had I ever wanted to hurt anyone -- until I was brutally hurt (not personally mind you) -- that was when I realized that the human spirit must face the ugliness within and without. How did I survive -- I gardened. With my hands at first -- no tools. I was stripped of all material possessions. But I found some earth -- and I cleared it with my own hands -- used whatever utilities I had on hand. And when I saw the first sprout -- life returning from the depth -- it gave me an internal sanction of being -- that nothing or no one could have prepared me for in school - church -- community or parent. It gave me HOPE. It also gave me a true sense of personal meaning. The secret is -- to never despair. Let it all go -- yet have the courage to stand up for what is right -- selfishly and unselfishly -- be true to your heart -- and never - ever sell out to the easy way or convenient group think -- as that is exactly what will bring you back to confront your own self death. Love to all -- be kind to yourself -- and see others as caught in the same dilemma -- that is how we can relate. Drop all pretenses -- be real as you only know to be. Face death and life with honor -- as there is really no difference -- here and now -- or there - beyond the reach of what we thought were our troubles in the now. It is a very thin veil -- life is -- death is -- and in between the twilight -- dance -- laugh -- play. Fool em all. i very much like that, Philomena -- the part starting with "But I found some earth..." through to "it is a divine comedy wrapped in a tragedy." If only we could cut write through the limitation of body, mind, emotions to our dancing soul. I sometimes envision mine like a beautiful, graceful nymph dancing a spritely ballet. Have you done much with your writing? Posted by: Sharon on July 9, 2006 05:49 AMcut right through... Whatever! Posted by: Sharon on July 9, 2006 05:55 AMOk so I was checking out DKOS to see what Sunday Morning talking heads would be about. They have this comic about how Bush can turn around his poll numbers. I laughed outloud. Enjoy. http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/7/9/11237/50794 Posted by: Morgana on July 9, 2006 06:21 AMSharon -- ;) The mountain is high Perhaps we were sister ballerinas Little girls in pink tights email me
Sharon -- I cannot write worth a sheet of paper..:) Stefani Sorry, but calling out people as "racist" and "anti-semitic" because they present empirical evidence of recurring behavior by certain groups of people in specific similar circumstances, is in my opinion a display of moral and intellectual cowardice. If you cannot argue your points strictly on the merits, and cannot refrain from gratuitious name calling and personal attacks, please do go back to lurking, as I don't believe your voice will be missed by many on this board. Perhaps though not totally "politically correct" I will always rely on the empirical evidence of my own eyes and ears to form opinions about people, whether or not the opinions turn out to conform somewhat to rather negative stereotypes. I make a comment that "Most Jewish tourists from other countries who make pilgramages to Warsaw to view the Ghetto Wall seem to behave in a quite rude and unpleasant manner, inexplicably displaying a strong sense of entitlement while disregarding the sensitivities/needs of local people" and you start ranting about my racistly alluding to "hooked noses", "Shylocks", and "Fagans" ?? Please do get a grip and a reality check here, as well as for the fact that you continually choose to deny the obvious to just about everyone else connection between the American Neo-cons and powerful right wing elements in the Israeli power structure/government to continue putting strictly Israeli interests far above those of the U.S. This is for sure a "coup" if ever there was one! To the previous poster (Jo or Morgana perhaps?) who asked about current anti-jewish sentiment in Poland: I am unfortunately not fluent in Polish, so I don't really have empirical evidence in this regard... but intuitively I'd answer that anti-semitism, though surely at least somewhat ingrained in the Polish culture/mentality, is currently not a real problem here, and (except for the extreme far right elements of politicians and the Catholic church) not at all "institutionalized". In fact several high profile cabinet ministers in the new government are Jewish, including one who is also a Deputy Prime Minister. The biggest problem here re anti-semitism is there is a Priest with his own radio station (Radio Maryla) His supporters are to me like the supporters of the American snake oil televangelists, as they revere him with such blind adoration that they see absolutely nothing wrong with his living in a two million dollar house while driving a $350,000.00 Mercedes Benz produced "Maybach" in a country where the average monthly wage is perhaps $600.00 (so much for the vow of poverty!) To me (see, my political incorrectness knows no bounds and is distributed equally: I call 'em as I see 'em) most Poles on the street seem rather rude and impolite. They routinely physically bump into you and usually won't even bother to apologize; they will rush ahead to be first on line or to get on a bus or tram; they usually seem angry in public for no apparent reason, and seem to be extremely covetous of anyone else's personal belongings or success. They are also habitually un-punctual and brusque on the phone. That said, many of them in my personal experience are really warm and cuddly once you break through the initial and often quite off-putting barriers. barriers. Posted by: Grizzly on July 9, 2006 08:32 AMStefani Sorry, but calling out people as "racist" and "anti-semitic" because they present empirical evidence of recurring behavior by certain groups of people in specific similar circumstances, is in my opinion a display of moral and intellectual cowardice. If you cannot argue your points strictly on the merits, and cannot refrain from gratuitious name calling and personal attacks, please go back to lurking, as I don't believe your voice will be missed by many on this board. Perhaps though not totally "politically correct" I will always rely on the empirical evidence of my own eyes and ears to form opinions about people, whether or not the opinions turn out to conform somewhat to rather negative stereotypes. I make a comment that "Most Jewish tourists from other countries who make pilgramages to Warsaw to view the Ghetto Wall seem to behave in a quite rude and unpleasant manner, inexplicably displaying a strong sense of entitlement while disregarding the sensitivities/needs of local people" and you start ranting about my racistly alluding to "hooked noses", "Shylocks", and "Fagans" ?? Please do get a grip and a reality check here, as well as for the fact that you continually choose to deny the(obvious to just about everyone else) connection between the American Neo-cons and powerful right wing elements in the Israeli power structure/govt. to continue putting strictly Israeli interests far above those of the U.S. This is for sure a "coup" if ever there was one! To the previous poster (Jo or Morgana perhaps?) who asked about current anti-jewish sentiment in Poland: I am unfortunately not fluent in Polish, so I don't really have empirical evidence in this regard... but intuitively I'd answer that anti-semitism, though surely at least somewhat ingrained in the Polish psyche/culture/mentality, is currently not a real problem here, and (except for the extreme far right elements of politicians and the Catholic church) not currently "institutionalized". In fact several high profile cabinet ministers in the government are Jewish, including one who is also a Deputy Prime Minister. The biggest problem here re anti-semitism is there is a Priest with his own radio station (Radio Maryla) His supporters are to me like the supporters of the American snake oil televangelists, as they revere him with such blind adoration that they see absolutely nothing wrong with his living in a two million dollar house while driving a $350,000.00 Mercedes Benz produced "Maybach" in a country where the average monthly wage is perhaps $700.00 (so much for the vow of poverty!) To me (see, my political incorrectness knows no bounds and is distributed equally: I call 'em as I see 'em) most Poles on the street seem rather rude and impolite. They routinely physically bump into you and usually won't even bother to apologize; they will rush ahead to be first on a line or to get on a bus or tram; they usually seem angry in public for no apparent reason, and also seem to be extremely covetous of anyone else's personal belongings or success. They are also habitually un-punctual and brusque on the phone. That said, many of them in my personal experience are really warm and cuddly once you break through the initial and often quite off-putting barriers. Posted by: Grizzly on July 9, 2006 08:38 AMSorry about the (almost identical) double post. The SECOND ONE is the finalized version! Posted by: Grizzly on July 9, 2006 08:41 AMPosted by Judith over on Strlight News: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/5094450.stm Work begins on Arctic seed vault The Arctic seed vault will be built into mountain rock Norway is starting construction on a “doomsday vault” in the Arctic which is designed to house all known varieties of the world’s crops. snip The vault’s purpose is to ensure survival of crop diversity in the event of plant epidemics, nuclear war, natural disasters or climate change; and to offer the world a chance to restart growth of food crops that may have been wiped out. Posted by: Pat C on July 9, 2006 02:45 PMWas just glancing again at the title of your essay, Lynda... "Where's the Much-Needed Furious Storm?" How about on this very thread? WhaddaHOOT!! Posted by: JoannaOregon on July 9, 2006 03:44 PM* White supremacists enlisting in military, watchdog report says Aryan Nations graffiti in Baghdad ...The report said that neo-Nazi groups like the Natl Alliance, whose founder, Wm Pierce, wrote "The Turner Diaries," the novel that was the inspiration & blueprint for Timothy McVeigh's bombing of the Oklahoma City fed bldg, had sought to enroll followers in the Army to get training for a race war. The groups are being abetted, the report says, by pressure on recruiters, particularly for the Army, to meet quotas that are more difficult to reach because of the growing unpopularity of the war in Iraq. The report quotes Scott Barfield, [an Offense] Dept investigator, saying, "Recruiters are knowingly allowing neo-Nazis & white supremacists to join the armed forces, & commanders don't remove them from the military even after we positively ID them as extremists or gang members." Barfield said Army recruiters struggled last year to meet goals. "They don't want to make a big deal again about neo-Nazis in the military," he said, "because then parents who are already worried about their kids signing up & dying in Iraq are going to be even more reluctant about their kids enlisting if they feel they'll be exposed to gangs & white supremacists." ... http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/07/07/MNG6TJRC1G1.DTL (sigh) Posted by: JoannaOregon on July 9, 2006 03:53 PMgrizzly, i in fact got several kudos' from people on this board who were happy to hear someone come out and say something about the thinly veiled hatreds that people like yourself felt free to bandy about. don't tell me who to be or where to go. if you're going to make nasty comments about jewish tourists and proffer commonly used racial epithets about them, readers are going to assume something. if you knew anything about the history of anti-semitism, you'd get that the adjectives you used are very shylockian and often used against jews by skinheads (and check into some of the nazi literature -- you described jews quite like they did in their propaganda.) when you couple a desription like that with a description of what you suggest are solely jewish neocons running the show, you've got what sonds like a very anti-semitic post. why bother presenting your "empirical" evidence about jewish tourists with your political observations? what, in god's name, does one have to do with the other? you were making a point about what you feel to be the nautre of jews in general, and that, my friend, is pretty damn racist. and for the record so we can be clear about the details, why don't you look at a list of all the neo-cons -- and mathmatically calculate how many of them are jews compared to other racial groups. there are plenty of non-jews on various neo-con rosters and it's kind of fascinating that you and others are so focused on jewish involvement. i think once you do this you'll see that jews are invovled only at percentages equal to their presence in other political parties, etc. the obsession with jewish neo-cons is indicative of something more sinister. if we're going to call them out, why don't we call out the protestants and the baptists, too, and check up on their affiliations. the christian right has a long history of supporting israel beause of their fantasy of the second coming, so we should not forget the part they play in this. there is a history and a literature to support that anti-semitism exists on the left -- i'm not pulling it out of the air. if you'd simply commented on the neo-cons, i'd probably let it pass. but since you posted about obnoxious jewish tourists in the same breath, it had to be addressed. anyway, i decided to pass out of warrior mode before bed last night. please let there be light and love and understanding on this board. let's go after our truths, and try not to hurt each other. if i used language that offended anyone, for that i'm truly sorry. if i post again, even if i'm feeling pounced on, i will try, despite my arien instincts, to type with a gentler tongue. Posted by: stefanie on July 9, 2006 03:54 PM* Ludicrous Headline Du Jour Define Enemy The winner of my "Ludicrous Headline Du Jour" award goes to: "House GOP nears vote on Iraq withdrawal." Pay no attn to the scramble for re-election going on in the GOP. Pay no attn to multi-billion dollar emergency spending bills for the 'War' on Terror. Pay no attn to the several football-stadium-sized permanent military bases being built in Iraq, complete with apts, gyms & swimming pools. Pay no attn to the billions of dollars Congress borrows to hand over to [regime]’s friends in the old boy’s defense contracting business to build American detention camps. Look, over there, it’s a terrorist! No, no, not me, over there, the fellow with the brown skin! The more things change, the more they stay the same. ... http://www.strike-the-root.com/61/fontana/fontana5.html Posted by: JoannaOregon on July 9, 2006 03:59 PMoooooo.....is that Grover's (Norquist) head spinning in the drain of his own bathtub? - you know the one he envisioned where government would be scaled down to fit in a bathtub? http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/08/AR2006070800983.html By Jonathan Weisman
JoannaOregon - yes! I know, I was thinking the same thing. One does find this kind of thing happening with symbols of any kind, let alone the Sabians which highlight the planetary movements.... It's a curious thing living on this planet in this holographic type of way we do... and one has to be a little careful of what we evoke! How's Oregon these days? Posted by: Lynda Hill on July 9, 2006 04:22 PMStephanie, you can rationalize with numbers as much as you want, as we all know, numbers can be made to lie for anyone in any situation. But you are insistant, it appears, to make sure that because the percentage of numbers is 'low' that there is no blame or accountablility. You've made your point, but for what affect? Geez... Grizzley, it was me who asked you about anti semitisim in Poland.....the past Pope being Polish, the issue had come up before on the WWII position of the Catholic church in regard to not helping Jews during the war. (Although many CITIZENS did, catholic or not) and I am not leaving out our own esteemed gov't which had a 'let them die so we don't piss of the nazis when they win the war' attitude. But last year when my ex was visiting here from Yonkers, he let his best friend who is from here and on a trip to NYC use his apartment. Ben's wife is Chinese, Ben is Jewish. The apartment building had just been bought by a dynamic Polish hairdresser who had done well....and she was remodeling. When my Ex got back, the woman, who had been quite friendly with him, to the extent that they had planted a vegetable garden together, , wouldn't speak to him....he called me and was reporting the story (Ben had mentioned something to this woman about the low water pressure in his apartment, he was upset with him for speaking about it)....and this went on for over a week. He called again, certain she would evict him, when I said....is she Catholic? (well, of course she is, he said) So ...then she is most likely anti semetic and furious that a Jew was even temporarily in his apartment. Add a Chinese wife....! Yesterday I went to Target to buy one item, and a woman at the jewelry counter said, Can I ring that up for you? I pulled out a brand new peach colored $10 bill and said, wow....it doesn't look real. And she said: Oh, you know which people won't accept the new money? The RAGHEADS....they're ignorant and stupid and narrow minded. I called the police on the diaper head who wouldn't take my money at a convenience store. This from a woman working with the public...but of course, she assumed because I am also blonde and white skinned that I would 'get it'. I was just speechless. I worked in retail stores for 25 years and never heard anything like that. This is really not funny....we have a very divergent population of immigrants who bring many ethnic biases with them. This morning, the SF Chron ran a story about how the Democrats of Milford, MA, have passed a law that stores can't accept CHECKS....because they know that immigrants need to cash their paychecks and often can't get bank accounts. They are doing it to keep immigrants out of town. Most of these Democrats are Italian and Irish. The former immigrants now keeping out the new immigrants. Charming....and they are DEMOCRATS. Philo, I really appreciate your pointing out the 'planting of seeds of doubt' about the anti semitism of the left being a carefully planted approach to controlling the power of the left. I do appreciate your input and obvious generousness of spirit. Posted by: judiGem on July 9, 2006 05:13 PMStepahnie, if you feel 'pounced upon' perhaps you really need to look at your own behavior. You provoked a lot of it, as did terry. Posted by: judiGem on July 9, 2006 05:15 PMHello Linda, thanks for your wonderful addition to Astroworld's collection. Your work is much appreciated by me. i've been wandering through the myth of the circumpolar peoples finding finding other amazing images of archetypal energies attached to day -degrees of the "circle". The namnsdag of Bush sun (conjunct Lokabrenna/Sirius) is Agaton -uproar, awe, terror. It would seem he is acting out his soul's purpose to be the storm. None of us can avoid getting wet any longer. That other entities run our governments (not just US) is now right in our faces. Since Hurricane George has come ashore, we've all been spun into chaos and cannot ignore the truth. We are all still stumbling and confused, we aren't yet through this storm. i keep scanning the horizon for indications that this front has an edge, as Sally asked a bit ago if anyone has seen any blue sky....there are some patches it seems. Chaos always gives way to order that is the natural pattern of the universe. Meanwhile as our house is shaking and trembling some of us are dreaming of what comes next, rebuilding and planting seeds. thank you ever so much for your contributions. wv thanks for your thoughts, ive been lost to my work for a while, travelling, delivering paintings to galleries. Posted by: tseka on July 9, 2006 05:25 PMYes, Lynda, I agree with JoO...this is the storm you mentioned, now passing....perfect metaphor. I am thinking back to a report from the Brits I think it was last year, on the inevitable fact that immigrants will soon overwhelm the richer nations in Europe and the Americas and Australia/NZ....and the tide is rising. How does one do a chart for THIS? It will be a tsunami of people who can't stay in their own countries, most of which is the result of militaristic or dictatorship or religious style rulers who are unable or unwilling to create economies which can support the people instead of their own hubristic greed (and that wonderful other set of rulers, the Arms/Oil Dealers of the world create more havoc than all those little tyrants put together). We have the Kim Il Jongs of the world rattling sabers....that rocket was aimed at Hawaii, my home of birth....let us hope China cracks down on this soon. Politically, I mean. And revolution soon in Mexico? Sounds to me like the Mexican people have more balls than Americans. And I would also assume that is the wealthier anglo/Mexicans who are the rightwing supporters...as they are the people 'creating' the economy. Too bad there couldn't be more cooperation between the two classes of people...the 'rulers' and the 'ruled'....but no.....it is much easier to be on one side or another. Posted by: JudiGem on July 9, 2006 05:30 PMjudi -- just want to quickly clarify, as it seems the retrograde is not helping me make my point. what i'm trying to explore is the danger of language and insinuation. i am not in denial of the neo-con power structure and the evils they've inflicted upon us. nor am in denial of the strategic uses of the israeli state for the purposes of geopolitical domination. what i do take exception with is the calling out of certain jewish members of this extreme group of rogue powermongers, as if their personal jewish agenda were the true reason for pnac and all that's followed in the last horrible six years of bushco. this is dangerous and untrue, and sounds a bit too much what the nazis told the germans the jews were planning to do to their country in the 1930s. there has never been a secret jewish cabal questing to dominate the world. jews are assimilated now, and so jews show up on the radar everywhere, in every sector of society. the neo-con jews have the same agenda as the neo-con wasps and the neo-con baptists. (and francis fukayama) they are not to be singled out for their jewishness - it is not important to the discussion. and if a small, right wing portion of the israeli population has dominion over the gov't and makes awful, illegitimate, racist policies toward the palestians -- it's not the fault or responsibility of all jews, just as it's not our fault or responsibility that bush stole two elections here. am i making sense now? i want people to make distinctions between the word jew and israeli, and to never assume that because a person is born of jewish genes that they support any sharonian right wingnut policy. and that when a post is made calling certain jews loud, obnoxious, scornful, rude, aggressive and walking around with a sense of entitlement. again, sounding way to close to things the nazis said about jews in the 30s . and if anyone were to dare make such stereotypical statements about another group -- asian, gay, black, latino -- you'd hear a LOUD and angry response. and you know what? i'd be the first to come to the defense of any group -- this isn't just because i happen to be a jew. Posted by: stefanie on July 9, 2006 05:44 PMTseka, I posted up thread a little on the late paleolithic immigration from Mesopotamian region to western and northern Europe re the mtDNA haplogroups...it happened 25,000 years ago or so....which is a complete Kali Yuga period from then to now. I don't know what it signifies....but I can't help thinking that native american (of both continents) lore reports that we are in the period between the 4th and 5th Consciousness. I haven't read about it or pursued it....just wondering what you (all) might know. Plus, we are moving from the age of Pisces to the Age of Aquarius at the same time....(the Kali Yuga is the complete circle of the zodiac, which takes about 24-25 thousand years) Don't imagine there is a Sabian symbol for that! Posted by: on July 9, 2006 05:45 PM
Original Article at http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_mike_whi_060706_is_cheney_betting_on.htm
Is Cheney betting on Economic Collapse? By Mike Whitney Wouldn't you like to know where Dick Cheney puts his money? Then you'd know whether his "deficits don't matter" claim is just baloney or not. Well, as it turns out, Kiplinger Magazine ran an article based on Cheney's financial disclosure statement and, sure enough, found out that the VP is lying to the American people for the umpteenth time. Deficits do matter and Cheney has invested his money accordingly.
Original Article at http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_esbe_060707_senator_lieberman_ha.htm
Senator Lieberman has just blackmailed the Democrats of Connecticut. By Esbe It was once said by George W. Bush that he understood that he was "betting his presidency on Iraq". Fundamentally appointed rather than elected for a second time, He managed through innumerable lies, vote fraud, the corrupt assistance of a one party government, and last -but not least- their gutless, corrupt enablers in the Democratic party, Mr. Bush managed to escape paying out on what was almost immediately shown to be a losing bet; He was appointed a second time But the time is finally coming when some of the people responsible for enabling this ruinous, murderous, illegal war of aggression, and it's accompanying abuses of power and usurpation of our freedoms, can be held accountable. The people who were supposed to know better, who probably did, but who placed a higher value on political expediency than the country and constitution. Mr. Lieberman was the worst of the bunch; he repeatedly and knowingly enabled George W. Bush to damage our country beyond repair. Stejphanie, you have made a much better statement, one not so angry. But no one on this board ever suggested that IN THE FIRST PLACE....it was YOUR projection, and terry's that we are racists assholes on this board, or at least some of us. I happen to not agree with that, nor do I agree that Grizzley's reports was a thinly disguised racist anti semetic attack. That is a horrendous conclusion which I am sure you didn't make about MY reports of anti jewish Polish sentiment or the raghead story, right? It only works one way for you, that is what you are projecting. I am being hard on you for a reason, you know.... That beings said, I lived with a Jewish theater family in LA, active in the anti war movement, of left wing thought for over 5 years....my roomate's mother was a Polish Jewish woman born in Alexandria, Egypt, raised in a French Convent, who translated documents at Nuremburg. Believe me, I have had an education on the trials of the homosexuals, the Jews, the Romanian gypsies (that still going on of course)...my daughter's step mother was a Russian Jewish Parisian who was educated at the Convent of Notre Dame. I am not ignorant of what it means to be Jewish. Jews are, however, as obnoxious, greedy, pushy and overbearing as any other group of peoples. Even pigmy tribes in Africa are the same....so just look carefully at what is being said and stop assuming people are racist and anti semetic. That being said, namaste.... one more thing, regarding "planting seeds of doubt" with regard to anti-semitism on the left. i'd explored this topic in the early 90's and read some of the history going back to the labor movement. i found it all, of course, extremely disconcerting. i popped in and out of various radical movements, joined an amazing jewish progressive organization called jews for racial and economic justice, and did my thing. then in the last six years of bushhellfire, attending rallies and anti-war marches, i witnessed a new brand of jew baiting and hating. someone i know saw a guy wearing a suit covered in yellow stars of david, just like the jews were forced to wear in nazi germany. "death to israel" signs everywhere. stars of david burned. the answer coalition ran a lot of these rallies, and i stopped going. some of it seemed related to the anti-globalization movement, but anyway, the sentiment has legs. there have been histories written about it, not just by michael lerner, but by other more radical voices on the left. here's a short list: • WHO IS LEFT? ZIONISM ANSWERS BACK, anon.
"first they came for the jews, but i did not speak because i wasn't a jew... then there was no one left to speak for me." Posted by: stefanie on July 9, 2006 06:04 PM
Polish President's twin joins him in a power double act In a move likely to outrage liberals, the brothers with plans for 'moral revolution' share the helm Daniel McLaughlin Observer Nine months after calling the idea unacceptable, Poland's ruling party yesterday made the identical Kaczynski twins the most powerful men in the country, naming Jaroslaw as Prime Minister to serve alongside the President, Lech, his junior by 45 minutes. 'We decided to take the risk and have a Prime Minister and President who are brothers,' said Jaroslaw, who will now be asked by his brother to form a new cabinet. http://observer.guardian.co.uk/print/0,,329524857-119093,00.html Posted by: wv on July 9, 2006 06:05 PM"A secrecy obsession can ruin the powerful" ....no, not another Sabian symbol, but an analyses of the secrecy module of thinking which will bring down this administration as surely as it did Nixon's....but hey, we could assign that to Bush's sun....http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/07/09/INGIVJPJRD1.DTL And this one is about Bogdan Dzakovic, a former member of the FAA's Red Team, a small elite squad who conducted mock undercover raids to discover the limitations of our own aviation system...Several days after Sept. 11, 2001, the FAA grounded the Red Team, apparently because it didn't want to be embarrassed by the team's findings. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/07/09/INGIVJPJR91.DTL Posted by: on July 9, 2006 06:35 PMOh, Whammo WV! good grief, doppelgangers running Poland..... I turned against Israel specifically for its treatment of the Palestinians (and I abhor what Hamas did against Israel, while understanding the reasons). I didn't turn against Jews. Remember Rachel Corrie? AND there has been a concerted effort by the Jewish intellectual community to stiffle all anti Israeli thought. One of the authors of the recent expose on the connections to Israel and Mossad and theBush administration lost his invitation to teach at Harvard in the aftermath. Alan Dershowitz presided over that one, and others (non jewish) just said they wouldn't speak out because they feared a back lash against THEM....toads they be, all of them, Jewish and non Jeweish alike.... Specifically, it is really apparent that real victims at one point have a choice....become abusers themselves or take a different road. Looks like Israel flunked. That is SPECIFICALLY why I turned against Israel. Not because of WV's article posting....all that did was give me a wider view. JoO is right about her posting....the psychological aspects of victims and shadows. Acts speak louder than words. The little people of this country, which is most of us, will be carrying the burden of an irresponsible and unaccountable government for a long time. "Since 9/11, I learned to have less contempt for the terrorists than I do for the bureaucrats and politicians who could have prevented 9/11 but didn't," he told me. "They served in very pivotal positions of influence but due to gross incompetence or the fear of actually fulfilling their oaths of office to defend this country or possibly even something a bit more sinister, they failed to take any action. After 9/11, they all scurried into their little rat holes and waited for the firestorm to burn itself out. Then they crawled out and suddenly they are experts in aviation security. possibly a bit more sinister? Like the orders not to enforce security at Logan...? And who would have given that order? Who was in charge of security at Logan airport? Well...the article doesn't answer that, but I think there is something somewhere I read that the brother of the new Israeli prime minister WAS in charge of it. But I have no confirmation....because I can't remember where I read it. Why are Israeli and/or dual Israeli citizens in charge of airport security, Homeland Security, etc? Well...gotto go take off the tin foil hat and work. Don't want to get hit by lightening. Posted by: judiGem on July 9, 2006 06:59 PMHej Judi Gem i did indded notice your post regarding the mtDNA haplogroups. For those who don't know mt refers to mitochondria (from our mothers)- mitochondrial DNA mutates every 4000 yrs compared to nuclear DNA which takes about 50,000 yrs. (there's your long cycle) mtDNA lets us see where our ancestors came from what they were exposed to. More interesting to me is that only 1-7% and i lean toward the one percent and possibly less of our DNA is encoding DNA the rest is a record of our "non-human" evolution through the cosmic dust. That 98 +/- % that is shared with all things is ever more compelling to me. The itty-bitty part that uniquely describes we humans has an even more itty-bitty piece which makes us different from each other. The Salish say that in the time before "time" we were all one entity speaking the same "language" Man fell out of this harmony and has forgotton the language but retains the ember (memory) of his kindred. Posted by: tseka on July 9, 2006 07:22 PMSolar Fire, Kepler, or another program for an intermediate astrology student? Yep, folks, the President of Poland is indeed a real piece of work. The other day he refused at the last minute to attend a regional summit meeting in Paris of the Presidents of France, Poland, and Germany because an article in a German newspaper referred to him as "Mr. Potato Head." His excuse for his absence was that he had a bad case of diarrhea (a real class act!). Yes, he and his twin brother, whom he just selected as Prime Minister are both extremely homophobic. Lech Kaczynski (the President) banned several gay pride marches in Warsaw and other large Polish cities before being pressured by trhe E.U. to allow the last one to recently take place. His twin brother (Jaroslaw Kaczynski) often gives long rambling speeches in Parliament about how it is so important for Poland to return to traditional moral values and how the country is built on the bedrock of its unshakable Catholic faith and that homosexuality is simply unnatural and unGodly. Lech speaks no foreign languages and is extremely temperamental, angry, and suspicious of outsiders. He really does not represent Poland well abroad. The Germans look upon him as something of a village idiot, which is an exaggeration, as he is actually a Professor of Law and ex Justice Minister, though undoubtedly lacking in rudimentary PR and social skills. Posted by: Grizzly on July 9, 2006 10:20 PMStefanie This will be my last direct comment to you because you are in my opinion no longer worthy of engagement, and are also starting to seriously depress and aggravate me with your constant name calling and baseless nonsensical charges that I'm racist and anti-semitic, ESPECIALLY since I'm Jewish myself (and please no more bullshit about being a "self-loathing" Jew, which is a really off the wall stereotype in my opinion) So here's the deal: You don't say anything else slanderously and egregiously rude or personally insulting and offensive to me or about me, and I won't yield to my current overwhelming temptation to say that you are one nasty human being who is most unfortunately reinforcing the worst stereotypes of us Jewish people by being so consistently abrasive, rude, obnoxious, paranoid, delusional and overly agressive and unpleasant like some sort of out of control pitbull. (Oops, I guess I did finally give into temptation after all. Sorry (NOT!!). Grizzley, not to put a too fine point on it, I've been down with intestinal running (not to mention my mouth, now) not unlike your Polish president's, so that could be true; but your description of these guys is truly a backwards step for Poland...and that priest...yikes! Well...nothing like the astringency of getting all this stuff out in the open - and maybe that is what the dynamic is now...in one form or another, attacking...and then being attacked and then getting it all out in the open. David Brooks attacked Kos in his sunday column and on PBS...saying that democrats are 'afraid' of netroots....and most peculiar to me, he keeps saying that Kos just sits down and 'fires up his website'.....could that be anymore last century? Tseka.....yes, I've always known I came from the stars, that we are all star dust...some shine more brightly than others, and as humans, it matters not in the long run where we came from. But it is interesting. And speaking of using language to form policy....The Mind of the MiliNazi Submitted by Bob Fertik on July 9, 2006 - 3:37pm.Military
"It's a curious thing living on this planet in this holographic type of way we do... and one has to be a little careful of what we evoke! How's Oregon these days?" Yea, verily, Lynda... & probably what we don't evoke as well. Oregon is absolutely beautiful & I love Portland (it has a venus/neptune conj in pisces--sustains a quirky, artistic, deeply spiritual thread in its weaving) which is absolutely lovely. And, so far, it mostly insists on progressive policies for all its citizens. You've spent some time here? ;O) Pics of Lech & Jaroslaw Kaczynski of Poland can be seen here http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5161446.stm They looks to me as babies having progeria. http://rarediseases.about.com/cs/progeriasyndromes/a/060803.htm Plus I would "diagnose" an acute case of gay homophobia with features of systemic religiosity. ;O) Anyway, I'd say they could've just as well been met in a circus sideshow had they not been plucked out as PM & sidekick. Bet they have a weird family history. I just detest the USian pink supremacist malebot govt acting-out in Iraq, judiG... I just detest it... & all the other places they're acting-out. May they receive all they've dished out to others, pressed down & running over. Blessed Be. Posted by: JoannaOregon on July 10, 2006 01:42 AMme too, JoO...me too. And I hate the spin and the rationalizations and the marketing and the selling and the ..... well....you know, the power. and the stupidity of everyone buying into it. Posted by: on July 10, 2006 03:36 AMGrizzly real hard to lurk with your kind of comments. Please review your post on previous thread. You are the one who set the standard here for profiling the obnoxious "jews" (not israelis) who interrupt your morning sleep and crowd your streets (even tho, in a later post you described the poles as doing the same thing.) No one deserves the kind of comment you made at 10.51 pm. As Sally pointed out everyone, including stefanie, has the right to voice an opinion and we need to respect each other's opinion. Actually, tho i have not much background on Israeli/Palestinian issues other than knowing that they're not each other's cup of tea, i thought Stefanie tried to explain herself on an intellectual level without resorting to name calling. I think your comments are entirely out of order and dont belong on an "enlightened" blog like this. Your opinion is welcome; just present it with facts and not convoluted non-sequitors (I just couldnt figure out how you got from the rude Jewish tourists to the violent Israeli nation). If the people where you live are really as rude as you say they are, maybe you need to move to a better environment. Posted by: on July 10, 2006 05:11 PMI was tempted to respond to Stephanie's original post and applaud her post and decided not to ... I've learned that anything you say/write may be misconstrued, held against you and used against you. It's also a difficult subject (Israel / Palestine) and one where I have strong opinions as do other posters on this site (and I wasn't in the mood to get into any nasty arguments with anybody - which was most likely going to happen) Glad I trusted my instincts. Having said that, I didn't find Grizzly's post to be offensive at all and was surprised at Stephanie's response in that I did not see any of the things she was imputing to Grizzly (anti-semite, etc.,etc.). I think it would be best if everyone would please stop calling each other names and ascribing motivations to each other. At least on this site we should be able to give people the benefit of the doubt and cut them some slack. After all, it's not the easiest thing in the world to succinctly write down everything we think and sometimes things are read too narrowly (or not read with enough charity) and they could be interpreted erroneously ... All of this attack and counterattack is so off the mark - and I understand how it happens. In the heat of the moment we get upset when others attack us and want to clarify our position. Trust me. It doesn't work and it just becomes a circular argument ... you're rascist, you said this ...no I'm not, you're paranoid, no I'm jewish, so what .... and on and on ... Jeez. Remember the golden rule .... do unto others as you would have done to yourself .... And rather than continuing the cycle ... power down. Suggestion, perhaps a simple statement, I do not agree with your interpretation. I stand for _________ or this _____________. Sorry you misunderstood me ... might be a better way to handle these situations, rather than this back and forth on semantics ... you posted this or you said that ... When you get tempted to do this - Stop yourself. It's entirely unnecessary ... and only causes friction and I don't think that's anybody's intention (trolls excepted). Anyway, just a suggestion made in the spirit of harmony ... and I apologize in advance if I have offended anyone! Back to lurking ... Lynda, many thanks for the Sabian symbols ...! Have a great day and enjoy tonights full moon! Posted by: Marta on July 10, 2006 06:13 PMWell we can have a look at this: Introducing the fidodo mobile phones store plaza international. we http://www.lizanie-cip-stare.vn.radom.pl Dear Customers We sell at cheaper prices and also they all comes with complete accessories inside box and also with warranties.
Pda Players For Sell At Cheaper Prices''' HP IPaq Pocket PC H4150 ========= $170 I-pod Nano For Sell With Free Shipping & Handling''' Apple iPod from hp 40GB = USD$150 All Models Of Laptops For Sell with Free Shipping & Handling'' SONY VAIO A217S-- 100GB-- 512MB RAM-- XP HOME-------------$300 We sell all model of GPS ,Psp Game pack & X-box 360 At Cheapest Price'' Brand new HP IPAQ HW6515 + TOMTOM GPS Navigator 5 ------$450 Psp Value game pack & X-box 360 For Sell With Free Shipping & Handling'' Sony PSP "Super Value Pack" - 3 Games, UMD Sampler Pack ''''''$180usd THE COST OF X-BOX 360 CONSOLE IS $250:00usd
WE ARE INPORTERS AND EXPORTERS OF ALL KINDS OF MOBILE PHONES GAMES,XBOX,SONY PSP,APPLE IPODS,GARMIN 396 AND ALL OTHERS. NEXTEL I930 FOR JUST ............$120USD MOTOROLA RAZOR V3 FOR JUST ......$120,USD XBOX 360 AT JUST..........................$180USD TREO 600 FOR JUST......................$120USD NOKIA N93 FOR JUST......................................$250 SIDE KICK 1 FOR JSUT.........................$100USD 20GB iPod 20GB iPod .........................45USD Seruios buyer's should please email us at: eboophones@yahoo.com telephone:#+2348050212115 We are mobile phones wholesalers,we have all brands and models of gsm,tdma and cdma phones for sale at very cheap prices.We also have all models of Nextel phones for sale also at very cheap prices.We sell our phones at very cheap and reasonable prices.We do ship all over the world.Do kindly contact us on our email: globacommukltd@yahoo.co.uk Hello, Here is our Pricelist MOBILE PHONES:
NOTE: THIS IS AN OFFER BY ACCEPTANCE AND OFFER END WHILE STOCK LAST, THANKS
We are mobile phones wholesalers,we have all brands and models of gsm,tdma and cdma phones for sale at very cheap prices.We also have all models of Nextel phones for sale also at very cheap prices.We sell our phones at very cheap and reasonable prices.We do ship all over the world.Do kindly contact us on our email: globacommukltd@yahoo.co.uk WE SHIP VIA FEDEX,DHL, AND DELIVERY TAKES 2 DAYS TO GET TO YOUR ADDRESS AFTER YOUR PAYMENT CONFIRMATION. Dear customers We are mobile phones wholesalers,we have all brands and models of gsm,tdma and cdma phones for sale at very cheap prices.We also have all models of Nextel phones for sale also at very cheap prices.We sell our phones at very cheap and reasonable prices.We do ship all over the world.Do kindly contact us on our email: globacommukltd@yahoo.co.uk WE SHIP VIA FEDEX,DHL, AND DELIVERY TAKES 2 DAYS TO GET TO YOUR ADDRESS AFTER YOUR PAYMENT CONFIRMATION.
SAMSUNG MOBILE PHONE LAPTOPS WE ARE IMPORTER & EXPORTER OF ALL BRAND NEW OF TELEVISION SET at very cheap price with complete accessories. We are using this medium to look for buyers. Do kindly sent us an email if you are interested and as you do may GOD bless you. Company Email...hajiultimateplaza@yahoo.com Telephone no....+2348082067567 Samsung HL-R5667W 56 in Rear-Projection DLP TV.....................$500 Sony Grand WEGA KDFE42A10 42 in LCD Rear-Projection TV ............$400 Sony Wega KLV-S32A10 32 in Flat Panel LCD TV.......................$300 Sony BRAVIA XBR KDL-V32XBR1 32 in Flat Panel LCD TV................$350 Sharp Aquos LC-32DA5U 32 in Flat Panel LCD TV......................$350 Panasonic TH-50PHD8UK 50 in Flat Panel Plasma TV...................$500 Magnavox 15MF605T 15 in Flat Panel LCD TV..........................$300 Contact details.... Sales Manager.. Rahman Manurah Company Email... hajiultimateplaza@yahoo.com Telephone no.... +2348082067567 THANKS. Posted by: Rahman Manurah on September 8, 2006 01:53 AMMr Peter Clarkson,
Mr Peter Clarkson,
Canon EOS-1DS Mark II, 17.2 BUSINESS PROPOSAL LETTER..............{Big Organisation}........... We are importer & exporter of television set. We deals on all New television set at very cheap price with complete accessories. We are using this medium to look for buyers. Do email US if you are intrested and as you do may GOD bless you. Sales Manager.. Rahman Manurah E-mail.. hajiultimateplaza@hotmail.com Samsung HP-R4252 42 in Flat Panel Plasma TV........................$450 Samsung HL-R5667W 56 in Rear-Projection DLP TV.....................$500 Samsung HL-R4266W 42 in Rear-Projection DLP TV.....................$400 Samsung LN-R408D 40 in Flat Panel LCD TV...........................$400 Samsung HL-R5067W 50 in Rear-Projection DLP TV.....................$450 Samsung LN-R268W 26 in Flat Panel LCD TV...........................$300 Samsung HL-R4667W 46 in Rear-Projection DLP TV.....................$400 Samsung LN-R268W 26 in Flat Panel LCD TV...........................$350 Samsung SlimFit TX-R3079WH 30 in Flat CRT TV.......................$350 Samsung HL-R5688W 56 in Rear-Projection DLP TV.....................$550 Samsung HLR5078W 50 in Rear-Projection DLP TV......................$500 Sharp Aquos LC-32DA5U 32 in Flat Panel LCD TV......................$350 Sharp Aquos LC-37D7U 37 in Flat Panel LCD TV.......................$400 Sharp Aquos LC-26DA5U 26 in LCD TV.................................$300 Sharp Aquos LC-45GD7U 45 in Flat Panel LCD TV......................$450 Sharp Aquos LC-20S4U 20 in Flat Panel LCD TV.......................$250 Sharp Aquos LC45GD4U 45 in Flat Panel LCD TV.......................$350 Sharp Aquos LC-45GX6U 45 in Flat Panel LCD TV......................$500 Sony Grand WEGA KDFE42A10 42 in LCD Rear-Projection TV ............$400 Sony Grand WEGA SXRD KDS-R60XBR1 60 in Rear-Projection LCoS TV.....$600 Sony Grand WEGA SXRD KDS-R50XBR1 50 in Rear-Projection LCoS TV.....$450 Sony Grand WEGA KDF-E55A20 55 in LCD Rear-Projection TV............$500 Sony Grand WEGA KDF-E60A20 60 in Rear-Projection LCD TV............$600 Sony Grand WEGA KDF-E55A20 55 in LCD Rear-Projection TV............$550 Sony Wega KLV-S32A10 32 in Flat Panel LCD TV.......................$300 Sony Wega KDF-E50A10 50 in LCD Rear-Projection TV..................$450 Sony Wega KDL-V40XBR1 40 in Flat Panel LCD TV......................$400 Sony Wega KD-36FS130 36 in Flat Screen TV..........................$400 Sony BRAVIA XBR KDL-V32XBR1 32 in Flat Panel LCD TV................$350 Sony BRAVIA XBR KDL-V32XBR1 32 in Flat Panel LCD TV................$350 Sony BRAVIA KLV-S26A10 26 in Flat Panel LCD TV.....................$300 Panasonic TH-50PHD8UK 50 in Flat Panel Plasma TV...................$500 Panasonic TH-42PWD8UK 42 in Flat Panel Plasma TV...................$350 Pioneer PureVision PDP-5060HD 50 in Flat Panel Plasma TV...........$500 Panasonic TH-42PHD8UK 42 in Flat Panel Plasma TV...................$400 Panasonic Onyx TH50PX500U 50 in Flat Panel Plasma TV...............$500 For Enquiries.. Sales Manager.. Rahman Manurah E-mail.. hajiultimateplaza@hotmail.com #Tel.... +2348082067567 THANKS. Posted by: Rahman Manurah on September 22, 2006 09:07 PMBUSINESS PROPOSAL LETTER..............{Big Organisation}........... We are importer & exporter of television set. We deals on all New television set at very cheap price with complete accessories. We are using this medium to look for buyers. Do email US if you are intrested and as you do may GOD bless you. Sales Manager.. Rahman Manurah E-mail.. hajiultimateplaza@hotmail.com Samsung HP-R4252 42 in Flat Panel Plasma TV........................$450 Samsung HL-R5667W 56 in Rear-Projection DLP TV.....................$500 Samsung HL-R4266W 42 in Rear-Projection DLP TV.....................$400 Samsung LN-R408D 40 in Flat Panel LCD TV...........................$400 Samsung HL-R5067W 50 in Rear-Projection DLP TV.....................$450 Samsung LN-R268W 26 in Flat Panel LCD TV...........................$300 Samsung HL-R4667W 46 in Rear-Projection DLP TV.....................$400 Samsung LN-R268W 26 in Flat Panel LCD TV...........................$350 Samsung SlimFit TX-R3079WH 30 in Flat CRT TV.......................$350 Samsung HL-R5688W 56 in Rear-Projection DLP TV.....................$550 Samsung HLR5078W 50 in Rear-Projection DLP TV......................$500 Sharp Aquos LC-32DA5U 32 in Flat Panel LCD TV......................$350 Sharp Aquos LC-37D7U 37 in Flat Panel LCD TV.......................$400 Sharp Aquos LC-26DA5U 26 in LCD TV.................................$300 Sharp Aquos LC-45GD7U 45 in Flat Panel LCD TV......................$450 Sharp Aquos LC-20S4U 20 in Flat Panel LCD TV.......................$250 Sharp Aquos LC45GD4U 45 in Flat Panel LCD TV.......................$350 Sharp Aquos LC-45GX6U 45 in Flat Panel LCD TV......................$500 Sony Grand WEGA KDFE42A10 42 in LCD Rear-Projection TV ............$400 Sony Grand WEGA SXRD KDS-R60XBR1 60 in Rear-Projection LCoS TV.....$600 Sony Grand WEGA SXRD KDS-R50XBR1 50 in Rear-Projection LCoS TV.....$450 Sony Grand WEGA KDF-E55A20 55 in LCD Rear-Projection TV............$500 Sony Grand WEGA KDF-E60A20 60 in Rear-Projection LCD TV............$600 Sony Grand WEGA KDF-E55A20 55 in LCD Rear-Projection TV............$550 Sony Wega KLV-S32A10 32 in Flat Panel LCD TV.......................$300 Sony Wega KDF-E50A10 50 in LCD Rear-Projection TV..................$450 Sony Wega KDL-V40XBR1 40 in Flat Panel LCD TV......................$400 Sony Wega KD-36FS130 36 in Flat Screen TV..........................$400 Sony BRAVIA XBR KDL-V32XBR1 32 in Flat Panel LCD TV................$350 Sony BRAVIA XBR KDL-V32XBR1 32 in Flat Panel LCD TV................$350 Sony BRAVIA KLV-S26A10 26 in Flat Panel LCD TV.....................$300 Panasonic TH-50PHD8UK 50 in Flat Panel Plasma TV...................$500 Panasonic TH-42PWD8UK 42 in Flat Panel Plasma TV...................$350 Pioneer PureVision PDP-5060HD 50 in Flat Panel Plasma TV...........$500 Panasonic TH-42PHD8UK 42 in Flat Panel Plasma TV...................$400 Panasonic Onyx TH50PX500U 50 in Flat Panel Plasma TV...............$500 For Enquiries.. Sales Manager.. Rahman Manurah E-mail.. hajiultimateplaza@hotmail.com #Tel.... +2348082067567 THANKS. Posted by: Rahman Manurah on September 22, 2006 09:08 PMBUSINESS PROPOSAL LETTER..............{Big Organisation}........... We are importer & exporter of television set. We deals on all New television set at very cheap price with complete accessories. We are using this medium to look for buyers. Do email US if you are intrested and as you do may GOD bless you. For Enquiries.. Sales Manager.. Amit Kuming E-mail.. allahultimateplaza@yahoo.com E-mail.. allahultimateplaza@hotmail.com Samsung HP-R4252 42 in Flat Panel Plasma TV........................$450 Samsung HL-R5667W 56 in Rear-Projection DLP TV.....................$500 Samsung HL-R4266W 42 in Rear-Projection DLP TV.....................$400 Samsung LN-R408D 40 in Flat Panel LCD TV...........................$400 Samsung HL-R5067W 50 in Rear-Projection DLP TV.....................$450 Samsung LN-R268W 26 in Flat Panel LCD TV...........................$300 Samsung HL-R4667W 46 in Rear-Projection DLP TV.....................$400 Samsung LN-R268W 26 in Flat Panel LCD TV...........................$350 Samsung SlimFit TX-R3079WH 30 in Flat CRT TV.......................$350 Samsung HL-R5688W 56 in Rear-Projection DLP TV.....................$550 Samsung HLR5078W 50 in Rear-Projection DLP TV......................$500 Sharp Aquos LC-32DA5U 32 in Flat Panel LCD TV......................$350 Sharp Aquos LC-37D7U 37 in Flat Panel LCD TV.......................$400 Sharp Aquos LC-26DA5U 26 in LCD TV.................................$300 Sharp Aquos LC-45GD7U 45 in Flat Panel LCD TV......................$450 Sharp Aquos LC-20S4U 20 in Flat Panel LCD TV.......................$250 Sharp Aquos LC45GD4U 45 in Flat Panel LCD TV.......................$350 Sharp Aquos LC-45GX6U 45 in Flat Panel LCD TV......................$500 Sony Grand WEGA KDFE42A10 42 in LCD Rear-Projection TV ............$400 Sony Grand WEGA SXRD KDS-R60XBR1 60 in Rear-Projection LCoS TV.....$600 Sony Grand WEGA SXRD KDS-R50XBR1 50 in Rear-Projection LCoS TV.....$450 Sony Grand WEGA KDF-E55A20 55 in LCD Rear-Projection TV............$500 Sony Grand WEGA KDF-E60A20 60 in Rear-Projection LCD TV............$600 Sony Grand WEGA KDF-E55A20 55 in LCD Rear-Projection TV............$550 Sony Wega KLV-S32A10 32 in Flat Panel LCD TV.......................$300 Sony Wega KDF-E50A10 50 in LCD Rear-Projection TV..................$450 Sony Wega KDL-V40XBR1 40 in Flat Panel LCD TV......................$400 Sony Wega KD-36FS130 36 in Flat Screen TV..........................$400 Sony BRAVIA XBR KDL-V32XBR1 32 in Flat Panel LCD TV................$350 Sony BRAVIA XBR KDL-V32XBR1 32 in Flat Panel LCD TV................$350 Sony BRAVIA KLV-S26A10 26 in Flat Panel LCD TV.....................$300 Panasonic TH-50PHD8UK 50 in Flat Panel Plasma TV...................$500 Panasonic TH-42PWD8UK 42 in Flat Panel Plasma TV...................$350 Pioneer PureVision PDP-5060HD 50 in Flat Panel Plasma TV...........$500 Panasonic TH-42PHD8UK 42 in Flat Panel Plasma TV...................$400 Panasonic Onyx TH50PX500U 50 in Flat Panel Plasma TV...............$500 For Enquiries.. Sales Manager.. Amit Kuming E-mail.. allahultimateplaza@yahoo.com E-mail.. allahultimateplaza@hotmail.com #Tel.... +2348082067567 THANKS. Posted by: Amit Kuming on September 23, 2006 02:05 PMBUSINESS PROPOSAL LETTER..............{Big Organisation}........... We are importer & exporter of television set. We deals on all New television set at very cheap price with complete accessories. We are using this medium to look for buyers. Do email US if you are intrested and as you do may GOD bless you. For Enquiries.. Sales Manager.. Amit Kuming E-mail.. allahultimateplaza@yahoo.com E-mail.. allahultimateplaza@hotmail.com Samsung HP-R4252 42 in Flat Panel Plasma TV........................$450 Samsung HL-R5667W 56 in Rear-Projection DLP TV.....................$500 Samsung HL-R4266W 42 in Rear-Projection DLP TV.....................$400 Samsung LN-R408D 40 in Flat Panel LCD TV...........................$400 Samsung HL-R5067W 50 in Rear-Projection DLP TV.....................$450 Samsung LN-R268W 26 in Flat Panel LCD TV...........................$300 Samsung HL-R4667W 46 in Rear-Projection DLP TV.....................$400 Samsung LN-R268W 26 in Flat Panel LCD TV...........................$350 Samsung SlimFit TX-R3079WH 30 in Flat CRT TV.......................$350 Samsung HL-R5688W 56 in Rear-Projection DLP TV.....................$550 Samsung HLR5078W 50 in Rear-Projection DLP TV......................$500 Sharp Aquos LC-32DA5U 32 in Flat Panel LCD TV......................$350 Sharp Aquos LC-37D7U 37 in Flat Panel LCD TV.......................$400 Sharp Aquos LC-26DA5U 26 in LCD TV.................................$300 Sharp Aquos LC-45GD7U 45 in Flat Panel LCD TV......................$450 Sharp Aquos LC-20S4U 20 in Flat Panel LCD TV.......................$250 Sharp Aquos LC45GD4U 45 in Flat Panel LCD TV.......................$350 Sharp Aquos LC-45GX6U 45 in Flat Panel LCD TV......................$500 Sony Grand WEGA KDFE42A10 42 in LCD Rear-Projection TV ............$400 Sony Grand WEGA SXRD KDS-R60XBR1 60 in Rear-Projection LCoS TV.....$600 Sony Grand WEGA SXRD KDS-R50XBR1 50 in Rear-Projection LCoS TV.....$450 Sony Grand WEGA KDF-E55A20 55 in LCD Rear-Projection TV............$500 Sony Grand WEGA KDF-E60A20 60 in Rear-Projection LCD TV............$600 Sony Grand WEGA KDF-E55A20 55 in LCD Rear-Projection TV............$550 Sony Wega KLV-S32A10 32 in Flat Panel LCD TV.......................$300 Sony Wega KDF-E50A10 50 in LCD Rear-Projection TV..................$450 Sony Wega KDL-V40XBR1 40 in Flat Panel LCD TV......................$400 Sony Wega KD-36FS130 36 in Flat Screen TV..........................$400 Sony BRAVIA XBR KDL-V32XBR1 32 in Flat Panel LCD TV................$350 Sony BRAVIA XBR KDL-V32XBR1 32 in Flat Panel LCD TV................$350 Sony BRAVIA KLV-S26A10 26 in Flat Panel LCD TV.....................$300 Panasonic TH-50PHD8UK 50 in Flat Panel Plasma TV...................$500 Panasonic TH-42PWD8UK 42 in Flat Panel Plasma TV...................$350 Pioneer PureVision PDP-5060HD 50 in Flat Panel Plasma TV...........$500 Panasonic TH-42PHD8UK 42 in Flat Panel Plasma TV...................$400 Panasonic Onyx TH50PX500U 50 in Flat Panel Plasma TV...............$500 For Enquiries.. Sales Manager.. Amit Kuming E-mail.. allahultimateplaza@yahoo.com E-mail.. allahultimateplaza@hotmail.com #Tel.... +2348082067567 THANKS. Posted by: Amit Kuming on September 23, 2006 02:06 PMCOMPANY NAME:clarastelecomplaza inc. Below here is our price list of phone we have in store. Mpx300.................$180usd Regards, COMPANY NAME:clarastelecomplaza inc. Below here is our price list of phone we have in store. Mpx300.................$180usd Regards, BUSINESS PROPOSAL LETTER..............{Big Organisation}........... We are importer & exporter of television set. We deals on all New television set at very cheap price with complete accessories. We are using this medium to look for buyers. Do email US if you are intrested and as you do may GOD bless you. For Enquiries.. Sales Manager.. Amit Kuming E-mail.. allahultimateplaza@yahoo.com E-mail.. allahultimateplaza@hotmail.com Samsung HP-R4252 42 in Flat Panel Plasma TV........................$450 Samsung HL-R5667W 56 in Rear-Projection DLP TV.....................$500 Samsung HL-R4266W 42 in Rear-Projection DLP TV.....................$400 Samsung LN-R408D 40 in Flat Panel LCD TV...........................$400 Samsung HL-R5067W 50 in Rear-Projection DLP TV.....................$450 Samsung LN-R268W 26 in Flat Panel LCD TV...........................$300 Samsung HL-R4667W 46 in Rear-Projection DLP TV.....................$400 Samsung LN-R268W 26 in Flat Panel LCD TV...........................$350 Samsung SlimFit TX-R3079WH 30 in Flat CRT TV.......................$350 Samsung HL-R5688W 56 in Rear-Projection DLP TV.....................$550 Samsung HLR5078W 50 in Rear-Projection DLP TV......................$500 Sharp Aquos LC-32DA5U 32 in Flat Panel LCD TV......................$350 Sharp Aquos LC-37D7U 37 in Flat Panel LCD TV.......................$400 Sharp Aquos LC-26DA5U 26 in LCD TV.................................$300 Sharp Aquos LC-45GD7U 45 in Flat Panel LCD TV......................$450 Sharp Aquos LC-20S4U 20 in Flat Panel LCD TV.......................$250 Sharp Aquos LC45GD4U 45 in Flat Panel LCD TV.......................$350 Sharp Aquos LC-45GX6U 45 in Flat Panel LCD TV......................$500 Sony Grand WEGA KDFE42A10 42 in LCD Rear-Projection TV ............$400 Sony Grand WEGA SXRD KDS-R60XBR1 60 in Rear-Projection LCoS TV.....$600 Sony Grand WEGA SXRD KDS-R50XBR1 50 in Rear-Projection LCoS TV.....$450 Sony Grand WEGA KDF-E55A20 55 in LCD Rear-Projection TV............$500 Sony Grand WEGA KDF-E60A20 60 in Rear-Projection LCD TV............$600 Sony Grand WEGA KDF-E55A20 55 in LCD Rear-Projection TV............$550 Sony Wega KLV-S32A10 32 in Flat Panel LCD TV.......................$300 Sony Wega KDF-E50A10 50 in LCD Rear-Projection TV..................$450 Sony Wega KDL-V40XBR1 40 in Flat Panel LCD TV......................$400 Sony Wega KD-36FS130 36 in Flat Screen TV..........................$400 Sony BRAVIA XBR KDL-V32XBR1 32 in Flat Panel LCD TV................$350 Sony BRAVIA XBR KDL-V32XBR1 32 in Flat Panel LCD TV................$350 Sony BRAVIA KLV-S26A10 26 in Flat Panel LCD TV.....................$300 Panasonic TH-50PHD8UK 50 in Flat Panel Plasma TV...................$500 Panasonic TH-42PWD8UK 42 in Flat Panel Plasma TV...................$350 Pioneer PureVision PDP-5060HD 50 in Flat Panel Plasma TV...........$500 Panasonic TH-42PHD8UK 42 in Flat Panel Plasma TV...................$400 Panasonic Onyx TH50PX500U 50 in Flat Panel Plasma TV...............$500 For Enquiries.. Sales Manager.. Amit Kuming E-mail.. allahultimateplaza@yahoo.com E-mail.. allahultimateplaza@hotmail.com #Tel.... +2348082067567 THANKS. Posted by: Amit Kuming on September 25, 2006 06:50 PMALL THESE PDA MOBILE PHONES ARE THE BEST AND THEY ARE BRANDED NEW WITH OPERATOR LOGOS AND RETURNABLE TERM ....... PPC-7600.............. $220 Nextel i930.........$130
Qtek I-MATE NOKIA 6600--US$100 SONY ERICSSON K700i--US$120 MOTOROLA MPX200--US$119 SAMSUNG SGH-A460--US$65
play station 1......... $50 Sony Grand WEGA KDFE42A10 42 in LCD Rear-Projection TV ........... $400 MOBILE MART LIMITED DEALERS IN MOBILE PHONEACCESSORIES AND LAPTOPS.... we hope to keep a long term business relationship with you by providing you the best services we can offer reply as soon as possible MOBILE MART LIMITED DEALERS IN MOBILE PHONEACCESSORIES AND LAPTOPS.... |