Must be in the air this - asking where we're at.
Was working on the following when you popped up with this new post.

A very interesting discussion for those of us looking for answers/guidance on where from here for the USA.
USA charts The Ultimate Debate.

I've selected the page where Theo - the judicial astrologer turns up the heat
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=947&page=3

How's this passage for starters?
"First thing is that the July 4, 1776 signing of the Declaration of Independance was supposed to be signed on July 2, but Benjamin Franklin, an practicing astrologer among his many skills, and occupations -did not want the signing to take place under a Capricorn Moon. He talked with the main writer of the Declaration, Thomas Jefferson, and both delayed the signing by making themselves unavailable until the Moon had entered Aquarius."

And ouch!
"One of the things I find disturbing about many "modern astrologers" is often how little they know about astrological history and fact - and this includes Campion, who, in my opinion, is over-rated, and surely lacks information on Franklin, and - on the horoscope of the USA."

Aw c'mon Nick's a neat kinda guy but this Theo guy seems to know his historical data

And how about this from the guy who swears by sunrise charts
"I read an ancient text called the "Pistis Sophia" where Mary Magdelene asks Jesus Christ about astrology, and casting horoscopes. Christ told her, and the apostles, that if the Fate (the Sun) is on the left side (rising) then the trained astrologer will forecast correctly. He stated that if the Fate (Sun) was found on the Right side (setting) that nothing the astrologer said would be true."

And then this(sometimes)cool dude writes
"Cool, isn't it? Well, I sort of grew up in that Philadelphia community in the Northwest and read about and also studied under the astrologers who in the 19th & 20th centuries, continued the tradition. Franklin, and many more Quakers of Penn's state were classical astrologers. Franklin was the "star" of the group, witty, inventive, writer, scientist, publishers, journalist, astrologer, and yes, one of the founding fathers of America - in more ways than one. Nice to have a couple practical celestial heads among others in the room deciding great public matters - not by rushing - but by knowing where the transits are, huh?"

Big Surprises at Bilderberg

James P. Tucker – American Free Press June 19, 2006

Bilderberg expects interest rates to rise and many Americans to lose their homes in the months ahead. Meanwhile, they hope they can pressure President Bush to refrain from an all-out invasion of Iran while maintaining oil prices at their current record-high levels of about $70 a barrel.

Timothy Geithner, president of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, predicted rising interest rates and difficulties for families that have obtained adjustable rate mortgages, or “variable” interest rates. Many are likely to lose their homes as rising home mortgage rates add hundreds of dollars to their monthly payments, he said. While most listened solemnly and some expressed concern, one was heard to say, “stupid Americans deserve their fate.”

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=4682

Many thanks, Cap'n Sally. We'll be watching Mexico very closely over the next couple of weeks. The election's on the 2nd, I believe. Mercury goes retro on the 5th. Hmmmmmmmm.

Stan, in John Adams diary entry on July 2nd 1776, he is waxing eloquently about future generations celebrating their independance on the 2nd of July at 2:00 pm when they signed the Declaration of Independance. Celebrating with picnics, fireworks and concerts.

Also, you might want to read the "Lost Books of the Bible," I am sure you are familiar with those. This book contains a collection of the books that didn't make it into the bible for one reason or another such as they didn't have the complete book, or it had already been said, or it wasn't of significance. Anyway, one of those books talks about Jesus and astrology. Not that it makes any difference, because so much has changed since the time of Jesus, including time and we know a great deal more than we did.

In the found papers of an 11th Century astrologer al-Biruni there were a great many ancient texts from around 300 to 900 BC, how or where he obtained those papers isn't clear. He did have the work of the astrologer Nawbaklt who drew the chart for the foundation city around Baghdad. The Caliph as-Mansur asked him to pick the perfect time to build the city and Nawbakit picked July 31, 762 around 2:40pm to begin on the city.

That was just one of the papers found with al-Biruni (who was a famous astrologer of his day)

I would disagree that Champion or even well educated astrologers don't know their history. We don't write about it because of the amount of time and length of the essay it would take to discuss all the historical data that goes into a chart. Their are several interactive periods of time that relates to a present period of implicate energy being projected upon the world, and it would have seeds of different historical significance in different parts of the world.

Fiore and the whaling conference...

http://www.sfgate.com/comics/fiore/

Living in a Fantasy
At Home and Abroad

By Nicholas von Hoffman

It was only a matter of time before the people who go to Disneyland/World would want to live there. Our housing industry, nothing if not accommodative to customer tastes, has obliged. Springing up on what had been pastureland a few years ago are early-20th-century downtowns—replicas of the past, but without the dirt crime and grit of the real thing.

The Wall Street Journal reports that “dozens of faux downtowns [are] popping up across the country, from Kansas City to Washington, D.C., spurred by a demand for urban living scrubbed of the reality of city life. A careful mix of retail, residential and office space built with traditional materials such as stone and brick, Legacy looks like a city but has neither panhandlers nor potholes.” In Legacy Town Center, the faux downtown outside of Dallas, the paper says that “Many residents rarely venture even to downtown Dallas, which has been trying to turn itself into a place to live for almost a decade …. ‘There’s too much riffraff down there,’ says Ron Pettit, a 36-year-old contractor, as he snacks on brie and grapes at a table outside.”

http://www.observer.com/20060626/20060626_Nicholas_von_Hoffman_opinions_vonhoffman.asp

Americans are suffering from ~Abused Citizen Syndrome~

Starrynights -- LOL - Is this similar in to the Stockholm Syndrome -- were the captive abused citizen will now begin to identify and come to love their abusive state captors for the sake of their own survival?

Why the Dollar Bubble is about to burst....

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2006/06/342746.html

Rove Mind Games: T. Pluto in US 1st house T Square to US natal Mars - Neptune sq. The North Node is officially in Pisces transiting the US's 3rd house -- in combination with the forthcoming NM 0 Virgo 31 on August 23rd, 2006 -- that will contain a very nasty Mars Pluto square (24 Sag) that will connect the NODES to US Mars Neptune natal square -- along w/ a Venus Saturn opposition to Neptune -- and a Jupiter Uranus trine to the US Sun in Cancer. It looks like we are in for more of the same weaponized mind games and media military manipulations to propel the US citizenry to accept on its face an invasion of Iran and N. Korea -- under the pretext that these two countries have formed a nuclear alliance w/ intention to strike the USA. Of course this will all be *bovine excrement maximus* -- but heck -- who cares when you control the SHIT FOR BRAINS - minds of the stupid US sheeple.

...........
snip from Mind Games by Daniel Shulman
Throughout the summer of 2003, Gardiner documented incidents that he saw as information-warfare campaigns directed both at targeted foreign populations and the American public. By the fall, he had collected his analysis into a lengthy treatise, called “Truth from These Podia,” which concluded that “the war was handled like a political campaign,” in which the emphasis was not on the truth but on the message.

As his paper circulated among government and military officials that fall, Gardiner says he received a call at home one night from a spokesman for the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. He told Gardiner that his conclusions were on target. “But I want you to know,” the spokesman added, “that it was civilians who did this.”
http://www.cjr.org/issues/2006/3/schulman.asp

One universe or many? Panel holds unusual debate

March 30, 2006
Special to World Science

Scientific debates are as old as science. But in science, “debate” usually means a battle of ideas in general, not an actual, politician-style duel in front of an audience.

Occasionally, though, the latter also happens. And when the topic is as esoteric as the existence of multiple universes, sparks can fly.

According to one proposal, new universes could sprout like bubbles off a spacetime "foam" that's not unlike soap bubbles. (Courtesy Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory)

Such was the scene Wednesday evening at the American Museum of Natural History in New York.

Museum staff put together five top physicists and astronomers to debate whether universes beyond our own exist, then watched as the experts clashed over a question that’s nearly unanswerable, yet very much alive in modern physics.

New universes may appear constantly in a “continual genesis,” declared Michio Kaku, a theoretical physicist at City College of New York and key supporter of the idea that there exist multiple universes, or a “multiverse.”

“The multiverse is like a bubble bath,” with a bubble representing each universe, he added. There are “multiple universes bubbling, colliding and budding off each other” all the time.

Another panelist backed the multiverse idea, but three more insisted there’s virtually no evidence for the highly speculative concept.

A brief history of other universes
http://www.world-science.net/exclusives/060330_multiversefrm.htm

I've been traveling so I'm not totally current on the comments, but don't ya think it's awfully fishy that they killed Al Zagawi now, when the war was at it's most unpopular, along with *sh's approval ratings? I read the Repugs banded together to make the Democrats look "weak" due to their desire to create an exit strategy, and, thus, killed 2 bills.

On a different note, I know there was some advice given in the last few months on how to go about buying silver and gold coins (the kind you can physically hold in a safe place). Would anyone care to reiterate that? I'm beginning to think the economic crisis will happen at some point in the not-so-distant future and am thinking more seriously about changing some paper for coins.

Sharon, you can find information online about where to buy gold coins. The US Mint is coming out with gold nickles this summer, and most places have shops that sell gold coins (I would research their reliability) You can ask for references from some of the financial institutions or financial advisors.

Sally, I believe the gentleman in his comment "One of the things I find disturbing about many "modern astrologers" is often how little they know about astrological history..." was referring to knowledge of historical persons and their astrological teachings e.g. al-Biruni who you mention.

As to your comment "...in John Adams diary entry on July 2nd 1776, he is waxing eloquently about future generations celebrating their independance on the 2nd of July at 2:00 pm when they signed the Declaration of Independance."

I wished I hadn't gone there and investigated the background because it gets even more complicated when it comes to selecting a time/date.

For instance
"Many members were ready to sign by Tuesday, July 2, but a disagreement delayed the signing. This "disagreement" was Franklin & Jefferson concerned about the transiting Capricorn Moon - so, since Jefferson was the main writer of the Declaration... both he and Franklin made themselves "unavailable" for signing on July 2 - although this date - July 2 - is seen by John Adams as the true date of America's birthday."
For instance
"Twelve of the 13 colonies' delegates voted yes (New York was absent) and the Declaration was then ordered to be authenticated and sent to the printers. It took a month for it to return for signing - on August 2 by delegates. The last delegate from Delaware didn't sign it until January 1777."
Gulp!!! so when does it come into effect? A lawyer would probably suggest after everyone has signed
For instance and geez it gets worse.
"George Washington was so busy fighting the British that he could not sign it until a year later - on, get this - July 4, 1777."
Kinda interesting that he signed on July 04 but different year.

Hands across the seas Sally - Shall we shake on the Sibley chart?
http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_wtc_e.htm

As you are probably aware I'm an interloper from the other side of the Pacific which gives me the ability see things from a distance although have visited your fair land several times and my daughter is currently living there. What is this leading up to?
It's my experience and several of my acquaintances on their first visit to the USA, the realisation of just how (collectively speaking) 'Gung Ho' Americans are.
"Gung Ho!" definition
http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=19980126
(Aw c'mon this can't be true "...adopted by the U.S. Marine Corps Second Raider Battalion in 1942." So much for thinking it's a Pommie expression.)
Like these Americans can't possibly be like they're depicted on the movies can they? Yup!! they can and then some more.
So it has to be a Sag Asc. I also have a Sag Asc and maybe that's why I have always been fascinated by what's going on in the USA. Two of a kind:-)

Thanks, Stan, for the interesting discussion. Are you an Aussie ? : )

From one of my favorite geek sites:

"According to an analyst referenced in the Wall Street Journal article, the Internet gaming market could reach US$13 billion by 2011..."

"The growing value of virtual goods"
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060622-7115.html

What do y'all make of this? Is there astrology in cyberspace?

(Prompted by Sharon's question)

Michael,
I'm a Scottish/Kiwi.
Excuse me while I go off and and have an identity crisis:-)

Sorry, Stan. I was recently in KiwiLand, and learned the word "Pommies" came from Oz. My bad.

Stan, the USA is happy to call you a brother.

Sharon, what a joy to see your name on board.
Buying metals is simple. Go to a good dealer with your check and you're in business. You can shop around on the phone for the best prices and if you can purchase in a low or no tax zone, so much the better.
The best way to buy silver is in bags of pre 1965 coins. They offer the best profit. Almost as good, and easier to manage are silver bars in varying weights.

I can really feel the nodal change, the Uranus in Pisces station, and the Cancer Sun. Things have gone haywire around the war and the node is now on the war chart 29 Pisces Sun, Uranus somewhere around the ASC. The plan for withdrawal is just about to be offered by Iraq, not a mistake being timed with this Congressional madness.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,7374-2239088,00.html

The political game has gone wild and I think we definitely have interesting times ahead.
I think the Rove debacle was a prelude to this time of despair, hope, and chaos. The lesson is trying to get through about being misled by ALL the media and hoping for some salvation in outside people and events.

This is why I thought that the Waiting for Godot thread at Astroworld was a stroke of genius, and verified my belief that this site has the potential to be highly advanced and ahead of the pack. Instead of wandering down the primrose path with the others that fateful "Truthout" weekend, the folks here had the wisdom to talk about life and all assorted things, possibly being spared the complete disappointment. I was suspicious all along with the whole "Fitzmas" thing. And I was impressed with the actions of the Aworlders. A certain amount of detachment can be infintely helpful.
The last couple of years have been this awful roller coaster of hope and despair, all manipulated, as people have jumped for the dangling carrots.

Now with these transits the dreams can be abandoned. We're ready. These are some of them, I think:

1.The American Dream as we knew it
2.The PNAC dream of empire
3.The Conservative dream of dismantling the New Deal
4.The Republican dream of one party rule.
5. The Democratic dream of the trip through paradise a la Clinton with tons of money and nothing but good times.
6.Whatever personal dream we all have been holding on to that we no longer need.

The reason I think there has been a real step forward is exactly because of the failures to indict, impeach, and all these other things. I think we are finally beginning to learn that waiting for something to happen to these people won't cut it and bring us the magic ladder to paradise. They are symbols and have remained in place so we can learn collectively.

The two fish representing Pisces are the ultimate in duality and I think we will see this as it all unfolds. despair/hope. Darkness/light. Pain/pleasure. Good/evil. The whole thing. I am hoping most of all that there is some acceptance of the whole package and a realization that the full experience is in our future. Nothing more or less.

I do feel, though, that the one place where something good will come is in Iraq.

One of the main lessons of Pisces is transcendance where after suffering we find salvation in the spiritual. This could be ours if we want it in between the mundane bouts of agony and ecstasy. Then when we find this treasure, face the futility and the losses, we are ready to begin again as the cycle starts all over. The second the old dreams dissolve, new ones are being created.

A wonderful summer solstice to all.

Greg Palast:

"For The Guardian June 23, 2006

[New York] Don’t kid yourself. The Republican Party’s decision yesterday to “delay” the renewal of the Voting Rights Act has not a darn thing to do with objections of the Republican’s White Sheets Caucus.

Complaints by a couple of Good Ol' Boys to legislation has never stopped the GOP leadership from rolling over dissenters.

This is a strategic stall — meant to de-criminalize the Republican Party's new game of challenging voters of color by the hundreds of thousands.

In the 2004 Presidential race, the GOP ran a massive multi-state, multi-million-dollar operation to challenge the legitimacy of Black, Hispanic and Native-American voters.

The methods used broke the law -- the Voting Rights Act.

And while the Bush Administration's Civil Rights Division grinned and looked the other way, civil rights lawyers are circling, preparing to sue to stop the violations of the Act before the 2008 race.

Therefore, Republicans have promised to no longer break the law -- not by going legit … but by eliminating the law..."

Philomena

One universe or many?

Since "Uni" means one - there can only be one.

WV...I come down on the side of soap bubbles myself...so UNIverse could mean just our one, but that doesn't preclude a Multiverse, either. And hey, anyone wonder whats on 'the other side' of a black hole? And my support of a multi universe comes from a wonderful free program I have for my Mac from Germany...it is a FRACTAL DESIGN ("Easy Fractal") program, and as far as I am concerned, I think that is what the universe or multiuniverses are...fractals...As above, so below. Run this program and you will be absolutely amazed.
“The multiverse is like a bubble bath,” with a bubble representing each universe, he added. There are “multiple universes bubbling, colliding and budding off each other” all the time.

I rented Syriana and watched it last night....the DVD is great, because you from the special features section you can get lots more insight. This is, if you haven't seen it, a really multistory film (in the sense of many stories being told at the same time, as Stephan Gaghan did in 'Traffic'...) and Clooney deserved his Oscar. This brings all of the pieces of our current world into focus from many angles, so though it is 'fragmented' it is also cohesive. If you haven't seen it in the theater, rent it now (or see it again). It is based on CIA operative Bobby Baer's book See No Evil (he also wrote "Sleeping With The Devil)...great cast, every actor in Hollywood immediately tried to get on board this ensemble film.

Stan, although I use it, I've never been sure how I feel about the Silby Chart, because it's actually a declaration of war chart. There are several times taken on that day (some of them highly convoluted as how the writers arrived at their time) Then there is the Articles of Confederation Chart, when the Declaration was signed by everyone in Sept of 1776. When "the shot heard round the world" was fired in 1775, (I always liked that one)and Paris Treaty Chart (when the peace treaty was signed)add to that the George Washington Inauguration chart (not the best for several reasons) as an option.

The Silby Chart has an openended time (Silby didn't record the exact time.)

The Silby chart taking the 5:14 pm time works, the others work sometimes, even a lot of times but Silby works all the time and following 9/11 with the Saturn/Pluto axis falling right across the Ascendant, it seems to be the one, however I do keep the others in mind and take a look at them regarding events because it is impossible for one chart to reflect everything in a country. An Astrologer "Wolfstar" makes a compelling case for a Scorpio Rising chart (still July 4, 1776)

As I said, I followed and used the Scorpio Rising chart until 9/11 and I just could not see as clear a sign as that Saturn/Pluto opposition across the 1/7 axis.

judigem wrote: "I rented Syriana and watched it last night....the DVD is great, because you from the special features section you can get lots more insight"

What a co inky dink!! So did I -- we watched it over the last two evenings due to its length -- 3 hours. This is a movie that needs a couple of viewing to catch all of the sub plots.

Way to GO, Santorum! Not only did you come off looking like an complete idiot, but you made the lies about Iraq's WMDs a current topic going into the Midterm elections! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13480264/
Philo

MSNBC reports: Officials: U.S. didn’t find WMDs, despite claims
Comments are response to claims by GOP senators
NBC News and news services
Updated: 10:04 p.m. ET June 22, 2006
WASHINGTON - Senior U.S. intelligence officials said Thursday they have no evidence that Iraq produced chemical weapons after the 1991 Gulf War, despite recent reports from media outlets and Republican lawmakers.

Sen. Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania and Rep. Peter Hoekstra of Michigan on Wednesday pointed to a newly declassified report that says coalition forces have found 500 munitions in Iraq that contained degraded sarin or mustard nerve agents.

They cited the report in an attempt to counter criticism by Democrats who say the decision to go to war was a mistake.

But defense officials said Thursday that the weapons were not considered likely to be dangerous because of their age, which they determined to be pre-1991.

Philomena

judigem -- I have been into fractals for years -- and I am going to look for this totally amazing article I found on "fractal astrology" a few years ago.

Philo

WORLD WITHIN WORLDS
an introduction to fractal-scaling in astrology

This article was one of the first attempts - if not the first documented attempt - at redefining the theoretical ground of astrology in terms of chaos/complexity theory. It was written in 1993 and published by the NCGR Journal in a slightly longer form for their Spring/Summer 1999 issue.

The patterns of the sky have always been a source of wonder. And in response to life's mysteries we have searched for answers in those ever-changing patterns. Even the seemingly insubstantial clouds, wisping and gliding their way across our vision, are heavy-laden with secrets - secrets that are revealed to us when we are ready to see them. In our modern society however, the most obvious features of our world tend to be taken for granted or entirely overlooked as we go about the daily business that is life. We are accustomed to things here on Earth because, after all, this is where we live. But these obvious features contain truths as profound as any occult wisdom. In recent years some bright minds have taken a fresh approach to the old problems of science - problems such as prediction - and started a revolution. Their discovery of the processes that govern nature's design in such everyday forms as the curl of smoke from a chimney or the shape of a leaf, has been called one of the most important realizations of this century. For some of us, it comes like a memory already known. http://www.chaosastrology.com/worlds.htm

Sally wrote: "The Silby chart taking the 5:14 pm time works, the others work sometimes, even a lot of times but Silby works all the time and following 9/11 with the Saturn/Pluto axis falling right across the Ascendant."

I started using the Sibly chart exclusively as far back as 1986 -- during the Iran Contra scandal.

I read DH's book : Destiny of the US -- and became a true believer. It is irrelevant that GW did not sign the US Constitution until a year later on the 4th of July, 1777 -- since the majority of the signers knew of his true intent --as he was the one personally willing to risk his life in the revolution acting as the first General and Spymaster to secure the colonies under the new declaration of independence.

The Assassins
From character assassination to physical assassination, the Lobby and its agents ruthlessly pursue their agenda

http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=9170

June 23, 2006
A Plague on Both Their Houses
The congressional "debate" over the war shows that there are two wings of the War Party: Democrats and Republicans
by Justin Raimondo
The partisan war dance over Iraq began with the GOP's "stay the course" resolution [.pdf], and now the Senate has debated – and rejected – two Democratic alternatives: one saying we ought to "redeploy" the troops to the nearest convenient location by next summer, and another committing to a "phased withdrawal" that says nothing about how or when we're going to start letting the Iraqis steer without training wheels. The likely winner: another Republican resolution that basically boils down to shoot first and ask questions later. Yet the American people overwhelmingly oppose this rotten war and want out at the earliest opportunity. Isn't "democracy" wonderful? We yearn to export it at gunpoint globally – while shooting it dead on the home front.

http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=9191

New Moon in Cancer
Sunday, June 25, 2006
9:05am PDT
3° 58'

Ah…a New Moon in Cancer, our chance to be held by the sweetness of love that pulsates through every living thing. With Mercury (cognitive processes) in its last leg of Cancer, this is the New Moon to build a bridge from the mind to the feeling side of life. Think of it as an interconnected state of mindful compassion; which makes a lot of sense since the Chinese characters for the term mindfulness are "heart" and "mind". On this New Moon of love, the idea is to fully open to the possibility of living each day as a loving, heartful, mindful being

http://www.astrowisdom.com/thisnewmoon.htm

Jm-thank you for that meditation on the pisces n node season ( and the gift of analysis following? -virgo s node). I will be meditating on the thoughts you shared for some time.
I love to think of the universe as the one ground of all which contains worlds that we cannot envision since we are only atoms in the thing we call universe. It was this thought that freed me from the literalsit mindset I inherited.
Love to all. I am looking forward to coming home this evening to see where your thoughts have gone. Whee!!

Thanks, wv, for the link to Astrowisdom's New Moon in Cancer. That is a very, very good article!! She hits a whole spectrum of good points. :-)

The Alchemists: Turning Blood Into Gold
Chris Floyd
snip:
In other words, everything that George W. Bush says he wants from the Iranians now, he could have had for the asking – three years ago. What then can we conclude from the rejection of this extraordinary initiative? The answer is obvious: that the Bush Faction is not really interested in curbing nuclear proliferation or defusing the powder keg of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, and the regional and global terror that it spawns.

What are they interested in? This answer too is obvious, to anyone who's been paying the slightest attention to the Faction's words and actions over the years: they are interested in loot and dominion. What they want from Iran is nothing less than its return to quasi-colonial control by the crony conquistadors of the West. And they're willing to play a (reasonably) long game to get it.

In the meantime, it serves their interests well for the entire Middle East to seethe and boil. War and rumors of war are engines of limitless profits for the crony-cons. It sends oil prices sky-high and keeps those pork-laden contracts for weapons and "military servicing" rolling in. And the terrorism that thrives in this deliberately created chaos is another massive money-maker, as vast armies of "security consultants" ply their political connections to gobble up tons of insider grease.
http://www.uruknet.web.at.it/colonna-centrale-pagina.php?p=m24137&size=1&hd=0&l=x

Why can't/won't the Dems do this?
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/008830.php
Is there any astrological explanation?

WV...my granddaughter (5 yrs) has moon in early Cancer, as a matter of fact, 1 Cancer, and yesterday she had a major temper tantrum while driving in the car with 'papa', who is her other grandfather, throwing things at h im as he drove ...Papa wasn't too happy. She had to call and apologize for her tantrum last night (she takes after her mother in that respect). I told my daughter it was the Sun/Solstice conj. Caitlin's moon that did it.
Nice words for grownups, though.

Philo,

Thanks for the link to the fractals in astrology paper. I thought the piece was interesting, but it lacked clear explanation of exactly how fractals apply.

Fractals are "fractional dimensions", and the pretty patterns we see are the graphic representation of this. Essentially, fractals are about scale - as we look closer or farther away, we see the same self-similar designs which create the whole.

The examples given in the article don't seem convincing, although I sense there is potential for a better understanding. Ultimately, the zodiac as I understand it (barring some rare treatise by some 13th century monk, or unpublished paper by Isaac Newton) lacks an intrinsic spatial component - the distances used are derived from astronomy not astrology, and time, if it can be scaled fractally, is a function of human perception and experience, and collective history.

Philo, co inky dink? that's funny, and I never had heard that before....but I think Syriana (hope you agree) puts the basic picture together so that we can see how the threads work. My 'dark vision' over the last few weeks pretty much follows this scenario....and athe fact that the ones trying to tell the truth, to make things 'better', are annihilated doesn't make it any easier to watch, does it? I think I want to read the books...

Fractal astrology, you have made my day Philo!

Philo & Michael K...what is interesting to me about this article (and it is 23 years old) is that the phrase I've used here before over maybe the last few months, 'As above, so below' is just a memory of having read Voltaire I think, Macromega, Micromega...it is all a dim memory from 35 years ago, fuzzy as to origin...but it just started popping into my mind insistently recently. I think Gurjieff also used the term. But my point it, WHY did this suddenly come to me now? Sure, our brains contain all that we ever experienced or saw or read (the micro Akashic files!), but WHY now? Is it random or is it synchronicity? Is it that I am channeling a group thought, which I am very good at even if I never wanted to? the article mentions: The ancients intuited the self-similarity of fractal-scaling as the 'mechanism' of astrology: "macrocosm/microcosm; the one above becomes many below. Every lesser was understood in terms of the greater, and every lower in terms of the higher." so maybe it was not Voltaire. But it is even better that it is ancient.

time is a 'local' event, and is NOT a a constant, as time warps in and around the planet and also, I believe, around our own perceptions; but in otherways, it is a constant...astrology is about a moment in time when the universe around us 'begins', a 'slice of time. OUr perception of time is also fluid, and time warps regularily around the planet (time AND space).

I was most influenced by Dane Rudyar, more about the psyche of astrology than anything else, as I am NOT an astrologer...I guess what I am trying to say is that fractals are a kind of 'hidden' quality to astrology, yet holistically, it is all a part of the system of math, pscyhe,science,astrology,biology,physics,music,art,fractals work in all of it. At least, this is what I intuit from it. One more quote from the article:
Jung called number the 'archetype of order' and in systems such as astrology order takes the form of an unfolding. Harmonic charts are created by dividing the signs into miniature zodiacs - and then tinier zodiacs within these zodiacs. The Zodiac itself represents a dynamic continuum - the cycle of life - wherein each sign can be seen as a stage in a complex developmental process. The Zodiac is a fractally symbolic representation of the perpetual Cycle of the Seasons - starting with the initial 'push' of Aries, and on through the the signs, finally reaching maximum entropy in Pisces, only to begin the cycle again - the ever-iterating universe.

(or multi soap bubbles)

Stan,

Which chart do you use for NZ? The Kiwis seem to have even more of an astrological predicament - whether to use the Treaty of Waitangi, the Amendment Act or the recent Constitution Act - or other chart. It seems to me that when dealing with nations, there are defining moments, but rarely is a nation born in one "Big Bang."

Given the different defining charts for the U.S. and their possible dates and times, it becomes a matter of picking and choosing whatever chart fits to support your interpretation, which is just bad science. Maybe a composite chart of the seminal events in a nation's history (or person's life) would yield better results? But then the charts would have to be weighted based on subjective or other criteria.

Stan, while doing some research looking for some specific photos for an ad agency job, I came across these stunning photos of NZ....http://pinker.wjh.harvard.edu/photos/new_zealand/pages/Mt%20Cook%20&%20valley%20dusk.htm

There are a lot of them, and just gorgeaous land....for Jill G...also!

JudiGem,

The problem I have with fractals in astrology is that fractals are spatial phenomena, and the zodiac is not spatial. I wouldn't mind a good discussion how to make the zodiac spatial (actually, it's a secret project of mine :), but I suspect that might be unpopular to do so here.

Jung's idea of infinite zodiacs within is not really fractal - it is a discrete, regular decomposition of a concept. And fractals are neither regular nor discrete. Jung's idea is neither spatially nor visually fractal, although it is a valuable idea on its own accord.

Michael K -- I am going to reread the article again -- I had it saved for a long time in my fav. places and whipped it out after judigem triggered my recall.

How I intend to shape my comment back to you -- in re the non spatial chart vs the fractal hidden dimensions may at first sound -- bizarre.

But as I recall when first stumbling on the article -- it resonated with my shamanic astrological predictive techniques that are, at time -- very difficult to codify into a template for others to apply as easily I have done.

It is also an inner "eye" perception too -- which will automatically give the chart a fractal mandala visual....

I will go deeper into this a bit later -- I need to get back to my *mundane reality* -- TGIF!!!

Philomena

judigem -- most definitely agree w/ your take on Syriana -- and unfortunately in the *netherworld of espionage* that is exactly how it is played out!

http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/~pbourke/fractals/

Interesting thread on that superhighway through TX to Canada, North American Union, etc. Very interesting.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1494264

Michael K -- Here you go!!

Astrology is the study of consciousness.

In our search for meaning, astrologers study the fractal quality of space when we explore the inner dimensions of the zodiac. We divide each sign into decanates 3 x 10 degrees and dwads 12 x 2½ degrees. We divide the aspects into scalar families, or harmonics, such as the eighth harmonic family of degrees: conjunctions (0), semi-squares (45) squares (90), sesqui-quadrates (135), and oppositions (180). We create harmonic charts (a derived chart within a chart) by dividing the chart (360 degrees) by a significant harmonic and magnifying it to a circle. This reminds me of the biblical passage "wheels within wheels".

Time has its fractal qualities as well. In the world of computers, they speak of "real time" and "virtual (hypothetical) time". Adding to our studies of space, astrologers examine the fractal qualities of time. We look at a horoscope as an arbitrary point, the birth of a process within ongoing processes, designating "real time" transits as a basic temporal standard of movement -- a day for a day in the ephemeris -- with which to monitor the chosen process.

Go to link to read Roxana's explanation of fractal astrology and consciousness.
http://www.roxanamuise.com/Fracworld.htm

Jennifer Siegel
June 23, 2006

With Senator Joseph Lieberman facing an increasingly tight primary fight, pro-Israel interest groups are stepping up their support for the former vice presidential candidate.

Lieberman will face Ned Lamont - a Greenwich, Conn., multimillionaire backed by party liberals unhappy with Lieberman's support for the Iraq War and perceived coziness with Republicans - in Connecticut's August 8 Democratic primary. While polls still predict that the three-term senator will win the contest handily, Lamont's steadily rising poll numbers, as well as the low turnout projected for a midsummer election, has Lieberman supporters rallying to his defense.

Philo, I think you and I are seeing this as you said, from an inner eye....I see it holographically. Also, of course, being a visual artist, the visual translation of the math of the fractals to the vsuals gets the idea to me very quickly, which is great....since I am a math nonentity. I believe the Tibetan Buddhists a thousand years ago or more visualized the same construct we call holograms. Of course, those pesky little atoms are also sort of mini planetary systems. And those pesky particles keep changing their behaviors when we are viewing them. Shy, I guess.

Thanks, Philomena, for the link to Roxanne's site. I think she has some very good points, but I need to research the topic more carefully. The way she and Michelle Jacobs are using the concept of fractals doesn't fit with my understanding of what fractals are and how fractals work.

Thank you for sharing this.

Just got this from a friend (Friend) of mine:
Philo, speaking of Syriana.....!

Attended Peace and Social Concerns Committee at University Friends Meeting last night. Our State Lobbyist [ Roger] sez that his computer [ via an ACLU inquiry ] has been taken over by a PROXY . Upon further searching [thru a HACKER SERVICE] the proxy's location is in WASHINGTON D C ....shit! Unbelievable but believable .......... We are considering organizing a local silent vigil ....just like during the Viet Nam War!

The evidence of America having devolved into a fascist police state stares us in the face--only the brain-dead refuse to acknowledge it or deny it. For all thinking persons, the difficulty is not in beholding what's happening in America, but in keeping in mind all the atrocities that the demonic cabal has perpetrated on the nations of the world and the world's peoples. The catalogue of their outrages against humanity expands daily.
The World Resistance Movement
http://www.hermes-press.com/world_resistance.htm

This is pretty much exactly what I gleaned from Syriana, how about you, Philo? from the above mentioned article, The Alchemists: Turning Blood Into Gold http://www.uruknet.web.at.it/colonna-centrale-pagina.php?p=m24137&size=1&hd=0&l=x
In other words, everything that George W. Bush says he wants from the Iranians now, he could have had for the asking – three years ago. What then can we conclude from the rejection of this extraordinary initiative? The answer is obvious: that the Bush Faction is not really interested in curbing nuclear proliferation or defusing the powder keg of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, and the regional and global terror that it spawns.

Ah yup judigem -- kinda sums it up in a nutshell. I call it the old "cash in on the chaos" cabal theory. :(

Pluto in Capricorn in the 2nd house opposed Mercury in Cancer in the 8th house is the hidden fractal pattern in the US's chart. One day soon -- I plan to elaborate on this astro - fractal dynamic in a small predictive piece I wrote three years agos - titled: A Nation Eclipsed By Its Own Shadow Government.

I have shared my earlier rough draft notes w/ Clymela and await her input. I have tonnes of research on the US's Pluto dynamic along w/ saro series eclipses to the US natal chart.

The US Pluto opus that I began in April of 2003 is so demanding on my psyche --that I have to take long breaks after doing a shamanic journey back in time vis a vis the US's chart.

PS -- Using the Sibly chart -- the US's 12th house cusp is Scorpio -- Pluto ruled...and we certainly saw a slice of that netherworld reality in the Syriana DVD, didn't we -- judigem?

This is interesting Pluto positive food for thought.
How to Recycle Practically Anything
By Sally Deneen
Emagazine.com

May/June 2006 Issue

Old myths are shattering and new options come online.
Don't throw away those exercise videos and ubiquitous AOL CDs. Jim Williams wants you to mail old videotapes and CDs to him, so that more than 40 disabled staffers at his ACT Recycling in Columbia, Missouri can recycle them. And, oh, don't toss out those used Fed-Ex envelopes or broken smoke detectors; their manufacturers take them back for recycling.

Indeed, these days, it seems that more cast-offs than ever can be recycled. No matter where you live, you can recycle a wide range of discards - aseptic juice packages, printer cartridges, ordinary batteries, iPods, PDAs, and even cell phones.

http://www.emagazine.com/view/?3172

If you want to get involved in oil reduction, Syriana has a web site and links...to reduce oil, and you can download the screenplay....this is a movie which forces making connections, and it can be confusing. The screenplay can probably answer the connection questions. (I hope)

http://www.participate.net/oilchange
http://syrianamovie.warnerbros.com/

Michael K -- Check out Eric's thoughts in re:
Holographic Astrology: A Few Ideas

BY ERIC FRANCIS

Astrology is the original hologram. A hologram is a 'picture of the whole'. We think of holograms as those amazing three-dimensional photographs made with lasers. But the concept of a hologram can be applied to anything that represents a complete picture, if such is possible. By its nature, astrology depicts the whole; it is a system based on a representation of the cosmos, into which any idea can be integrated, and from which any new idea can be inferred.

Astrology is a nonlinear system of thought, perhaps the oldest and most enduring example of nonlinear thought in western culture. In effect, it is a nonlinear model of time. But it is also a model of time with many cycles present, and many ways of advancing time. Astrologers do not just use 'real time', but also use models of time and different images of time to assess the qualities of the past, the present and the future. Often these different methods of examining time provide startlingly similar information, but have the advantage of giving a diversity of viewpoints.

Astrology also works 'nonlocally' -- that is, not being bound by location, astrology works all over the world, and, one could theorize, on any world. But within the astrological figure, information is stored many places. An original holographic photographic plate can be broken in two, and each half will contain an image of the whole. A functioning chart works the same way, and will tend to say the same thing many ways, by many techniques

http://ericfrancis.com/articles/holographic.html

Tech Breakthrough: Large-Scale, Cheap Solar Electricity -- via startup in California (and backed by Google)
http://www.techreview.com/read_article.aspx?id=17025&ch=biztech

More bad news for the greedy Bush-Saudi Big Oil crowd. This one should really take off in a few years, by the time Uranus moves into Aries. The upcoming Uranus-Pluto Square is shaping up to be more and more a struggle for the monied elites to maintain an increasingly oppressive, status quo in which they are the only ones to benefit (Big Oil, Corporatist-dominated Govt.) versus an explosive revolution of new ideas, innovations and technology that seek to benefit the masses (Renewable & Affordable Energy).

MEXICO CITY - Mexico's two leading presidential candidates are running about even nine days before the election, according to two polls released Friday, the last day voter surveys are permitted.
The two polls published by the newspapers Reforma and El Universal showed that leftist candidate Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador of the leftist Democratic Revolution Party was backed by 36 percent of registered voters while Felipe Calderon of the conservative governing National Action Party was backed by 34 percent.

Roberto Madrazo of the former ruling Institutional Revolutionary Party remained in third place, where he has been since the beginning of the race, with 25 percent in the Reforma poll and 26 percent in El Universal.

The Reforma poll interviewed 2,100 registered voters from June 17 to 19 and had a margin of error of 2.5 percentage points. El Universal's poll interviewed 2,000 registered voters from June 16 to 19, with a margin of error of 3 percentage points.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060623/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/mexico_elections_polls

NEO -- GREAT FORESIGHT HERE!! Uranus ingressing into Aries in May of 2010 will definitely change the oil fascio- corpo dynamics $$$ futures. Think about it -- thIS is only 4 years from today. Google (THE INVESTOR) is even pissing off Israel -- and in my humble opinion -- that is a great START for the global revolution!

This is the best part of the Aries dynamic is that it will kick up all the dried turds and turn that primal urge into pure NRG.

I was reading a web site I think I got to from something posted here (can't remember how I got to it)...this quote was on the page:
http://www.hermes-press.com/cabal_index.htm

In his 1913 book The New Freedom, President Woodrow Wilson stated:

"Since I entered politics, I have chiefly had men's views confided to me privately. Some of the biggest men in the United States, in the field of commerce and manufacture, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it."

Sort of reminds me of why Al Gore 'got out of it' as well as Kerry, and of various assassinations of presidents and Ike's exhortation to beware the 'military - industrial - Congressional complex". I guess it was too soon to recognize the power of the major cabal in existence now....since it only got started in the 1900's. I.E....the current one.

I am still reading this site:
http://www.hermes-press.com/cabal_index.htm

Boy...lots of stuff on the founding of this country. This is definitely not your shchool kids's version, but appears to be well documented.

Everyone interested in the charts of the USA should read this....especially in the light of the plutocracy of Pluto....

With the US Pluto return at 27 Capricorn in 2022 -- 16 years away -- the United States' course since its' inception nearly 248 years ago, particularly with regard to use of power, and resources (2nd House) will be up for review. I don't recall where exactly I read it, but a Pluto Return can be a rather devestating transit for a nation (about the only entity that survives long enough to experience it), when that nation has deviated too far from its' original purpose or mission. Many empires have been born and have expanded to cover vast stretches of the globe, and then have retreated and/or have collapsed within the span of one or more Pluto cycles. But the Pluto Return itself always marks a major, irreversible, "death, to new life" transformation of the entity.

I've imagined that if humans were capable of living well past at least one Pluto Return, the actual event would mark a major turning-over of one's outlook and direction in life, far more formidable a transit than even a Saturn Return.

I think it's safe to say that the US, if it still exists in 2022, will be a very different nation after the transit than the one we've come to know. I can't tell if that will be for better or for worse yet, but certainly, our very definition of what better and worse is will have changed dramatically by that time.

Wonderful conversations!

And Shy. . .i've been following this superhighway proposal to link Mexico, US and Canada -- a euro-style plan well underway and out of congressional oversight. This is NAFTA on steroids. There's a reason why Bush keeps persisting in "amnesty."

Shortly, you'll see all sorts of op-ed articles supporting this type of "nation" building as being good for us, even better than NAFTA. hahahahahaha. Just wait.

I don't know which 9 Democrat Senators were on Larry King. They may have come off as great but look at how they vote.Boxer, Feinstein and Cantwell just voted against English as the official language of the USA.They also voted for amnesty.There are only a handful if that of Dems or Reps that are worth anything.Tandreco and Paul are the only 2 that come to mind as far as representatives working "FOR" the "US" and not international interests and world gov't.

English as the OFFICIAL language? How about flag burning. I am glad they voted against this and for amnesty. I fear any nation so insecure that they have to 'protect' their flag (and you can't burn an abstract symbol) or declare that only one language is their official language. What crap. But then, right now, this country is on one hell of a dangerous path....and it has nothing to do with language ....it has to do with the ideas which drive us to these kind of decisions. And they should get rid of the war song which is the american anthem, too.

You know, this whole plan of NAFTA didn't just spring out of the ground whole in 1998....this has been underway for decades, and it IS inevitable....because the people making those financial decisions control all the finance on a world level. They want the UN to be the world government. I still see this as inevitable because this is where the next level of growth is. And it is all stealth. It has been done by a law here, a law there, politicians being convinced that this step is the right step. This really is the frog in the boiling water, and we are about cooked. The pluto return will kill off the USA as a country in all but name.

What the citizens of this country will do...well who knows. Most of them time our citizens seem to be much more interested in surviving with the best cars, homes, and toys....screw the rest of it.

By the time the average person realizes how hot the water has gotten, they are old and parboiled.

However.....in terms of fractals....what happens after that? What pattern will be repeated? I suspect it will once again be revolution. I see so many astrological cycles repeating in the 2020 decade that it seems inevitable that the 1770-1790's period will be repeated in many countries, not the least here. Only this time, we (our gov't) are the oppressors.

These are: Pluto return....2027, 250-251 years from 1776 (Rev. War)
Neptune return...2027....164 years from 1863 (height of Civil War)
Uranus return...2027...84 years from 1943...height of the WWII war

And here's ANOTHER thing to think about, the fact that the largest wave of people born in the history of the world was born post WWII - 1946-1964- I think is the official span. Our famous Yuppies. They will all be between 76 and 58 yrs (Saturn return) in 2022 , which is really going to be the beginning part of this triple return, when Pluto is ending its stay in Cap. The youngest will just be going into 2nd Saturn return, some into retirement, and the rest, too old to do much more than protest. But what a massive amount of protesting they will be able to do.

I think this will be a legit area to do some projecting....What will this Pluto in Leo generation do? And to be accurate, that generation starts really in 1938, covers the War Babies, goes to 1958, so there is an overlap with the Pluto in Virgo generation.

It isn't too early to think about this....there must be some reason why this enormous wave came in...some job still left to do? One needing a lot of people?

But please, let's not get distracted by strawmen stuff like flag burning, official languages (English IS the unofficial language of business in the world already), amnesty questions etc. That is what the Rethugs job is...distract with divisive issues (they are, of course, the legislative branch of the Business party) which keep the people distracted. It is all there to distract us from the flame being turned up higher on the pot.

WV wrote: "It was only a matter of time before the people who go to Disneyland/World would want to live there. Our housing industry, nothing if not accommodative to customer tastes, has obliged. Springing up on what had been pastureland a few years ago are early-20th-century downtowns—replicas of the past, but without the dirt crime and grit of the real thing."

That is so interesting because that is basically happening here in Austin!!!
Conservatives who don't like the Mexicans, Hippies, Gays, and Progressives who live in Austin move to a generic suburban sprawl to the north called Round Rock.

While Austin is full of art, music on every street corner, bicyclists, and a great night life and political scene, Round round is just one suburb after another. They all look the same and so cookie cutter. While people in Austin protest the war, stories out of Round Rock are about how neighborhood associations are suing some home owners WHO DON'T COVER THEIR AIR CONDITIONING UNITS!!!
It's like Orange county as the anti-thesis of LA.

I wonder if this is because we are more and more living in two Americas - those who see problems head on and on a global level, and those that want to retreat to the Neptunian world of illusion. This really scares me.

When we are 65? We repressed later boomers will really be in flower, free from so many daily demands on our time. Kids grown, whether natural or adopted, jobs ended, we will have tremendous amounts of time to devote to our true life's work: restoring Democracy to an even better state. What can they really do? No jobs to fire us from, no concerns about our now grown kids, and we've forgotten more than they know.

Already we late boomers are beginning to transform the Democratic party though our people-powered "50' state strategy, and our growing local activism. Check out the Democratic party blog for more info.

We'll also fuel a lot of the conversion to a more sustainable economy. The incentive will be to pinch pennies as well as to save the planet. And as fewer of us drive, and start moving back into town, the pressure of the oil lobby will be less.

So the best is yet to be.

Travieso wrote: "I wonder if this is because we are more and more living in two Americas - those who see problems head on and on a global level, and those that want to retreat to the Neptunian world of illusion. This really scares me."

Trav -- You hit the nail right on the head w/ this last paragraph! Aries is on the 4th house cusp in the US chart -- Mars in Gemini (two realities in one energy field --Aries cusp 4th house) -- and the planet of illusion is square to Neptune in Virgo in 9th house (global vision).

Philomena, Mars in Gemini (multiplicity of efforts) in square with the illusion of purity (Neptune in Virgo) creates this illusion. The suburban fantasy is that we can somehow build a physical location that is pristine and exacting, free from all of that messy diversity. The irony of those people though pursuing that purity is that peak oil will make that lifestyle unsustainable for far shorter than the mortages on those new homes they buy.

Add another bitter irony: the homes they leave behind go for far cheaper, meaning that those who stay behind befome homeowners quicker. Which means that when peak oil peaks, what's remaining in economical driving range is already occupied and sold. And with mass transit in those "polluted areas" many live even cheaper by far, making them less vulnerable to an economic downturn.

opps -- Trav, I meant to say -- Mars in Gemini is square the planet of illusion - Neptune. My pea brain short circuits sometime!

This is taking the Orwellian double speak rule game to the height of absurdity!
Bandanna banned in Springfield mall
Officials won’t explain how headgear is offensive.

Published Thursday, June 22, 2006
SPRINGFIELD (AP) - A southwest Missouri mall defended its dress code after a security guard told a 10-year-old girl her bandanna decorated with peace signs, smiley faces and flowers violated the mall’s code of conduct.

Lydia Smith, who was shopping with her mother at Battlefield Mall for new church clothes when the incident happened Saturday, said she wore the orange and yellow bandanna to give her outfit some color.

Lydia and her mom, Susan Smith, were eating lunch when the girl saw a mall security officer ask a nearby teenager to remove a bandanna. Then the officer approached her.

"(The officer) asked me to take it off and said there’s this new rule we have or something like that," Lydia said.

http://www.rawstory.com/showarticle.php?src=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.showmenews.com%2F2006%2FJun%2F20060622News031.asp

Urgently petition Congress to renew the Voting Rights Act:
www.pfaw.org/go/VRApetition

Eventually, Americans will be forced to open their eyes and ask themselves what really matters, as a matter of survival. A generation of people who have placed undue importance in ignorance upon gas-guzzling SUVs and overpriced cookie-cutter faux chateaus in the 'burbs, over more practical transport solutions and living arrangements, will soon find themselves very distraught, and probably very angry when reality shows up and points out their suicidal, spiritually-bankrupt shortsightedness. And what happens to their children, the up-and-coming generations, many of whom are finding themselves unable to even get established, much less attain the same degree of affluence that their parents had?

We won't have to wait until the 2020s to see this crisis play out, although it may take well into the 2020s, and perhaps, the 2030s for Americans to fully sort-out the aftermath.

The Bilderbergs/One-Worlders won't get their way as they have planned it, as there are already seperate factions emerging in South/Latin America and Asia (and even eventually within the Mideast, Africa and "Indo-Australia") that have very different ideas about how their regions, if not the world itself, should operate. For its' part, the "North American Union" supposes that both Mexicans and Canadians are willing, if not docile participants. I don't know that either country's citizens are suffering the terminal degree of spirit and mind rot that Americans currently are.

Pluto in Capricorn will put a tremendous amount of strain on the status quo elites who will fight desperately to maintain and extend their power, but who in the end will be forced to part company with the very same.

Carol wrote: "The irony of those people though pursuing that purity is that peak oil will make that lifestyle unsustainable for far shorter than the mortages on those new homes they buy."

It ain't gonna be pretty when the Neptunian housing and oil bubbles burst later this summer, either!
Check out the Mars/Pluto sq. Saturn Neptune opp. aspects forming right after the Aug. New Moon 0* Virgo & Full Moon 15* Pisces p eclipse. The total eclipse on the 22 of September will also be a Neptunian double whammy -- as Jupiter in Scorpio will be squared Neptune -- in the same degree as was Saturn in Leo on August 30th.

Many years ago I noted that when Pluto entered the 27th degree of Capricorn -- it would conjunct my n Jupiter in Capricorn 27* -- then my IC and oppose my Sun in Cancer. This will also coincide w/ Pluto's return (27 Cap) in the US chart. I knew when looking at those aspects that it would be the time frame of my death -- and if my death occurs simultaneously with the revolution I will die in peace -- and look forward to reincarnating shortly thereafter to continue my Gaia trooper mission.

Bush now claims that he is above telling Congress of his private treaties with foreign powers that will create a new country that includes the USA, Canada and Mexico, without borders between them so
the dollars can flow even better into his family and friends'pockets, since NAFTA and GATT/GANN has worked so well for them using slave labor. He is silent on the plan to build the NAFTA Superhighway and is refusing to tell Congress what's in the treaties he signed with our neighbors. After all, he's the Unitary Executive who no longer has to answer to anyone.

What will the Democrat Party say to the Longshoremen's and Teamster's Unions when they are 'outsourced' and no longer have jobs? The NAFTA Superhighway will transport trailers off container ships that enter through the Mexican port of Lazaro Cardenas, offloaded by cheap
Mexican labor instead of expensive American Longshoremen.
http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/82243-Zarqawi-0

Does anyone have the national charts for Mexico and Canada in their databases? Dissolving borders -- how Neptunian of the Bush Cabal!

Maliki is scheduled to unveil a national reconciliation plan on June 25!

Good timing! It will be a New Moon. But I don't think the Bush Cabal will be too happy about this! It will foil their call for a draft -- and derail their strategy to attack Iran in the latter part of the summer.

By Rod Nordland
Newsweek
Updated: 2 hours, 8 minutes ago
June 24, 2006 - A timetable for withdrawal of occupation troops from Iraq. Amnesty for all insurgents who attacked U.S. and Iraqi military targets. Release of all security detainees from U.S. and Iraqi prisons. Compensation for victims of coalition military operations.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13521628/site/newsweek/

Tories in Canada acting like the GOP

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/24062006/2/national-tories-want-re-high-tech-win.html

Canada and New Zealand Dominion Days

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_Day

The story from Newsweek sounds like desparation PR. I believe the administration knew well in advance everything in the plan, and probably played a large role in crafting it.

Ever notice that as things deteriorate, more bold pronouncements about new plans and initiatives invariably follow?

Irak is (deadly) theater.

Fool me once . . .
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2355114
Just google who belongs to Carlyle. How many times must "we" be fooled before we don't get fooled again.

Quick! Drag out the hemlock and quickstep to Philomena's supine wan countenance in the bathtub!

Democrats dare to dream of recapturing the Bush heartland
From Kansas to South Carolina, Republican moderates are turning their backs on the neocons and defecting to the enemy

Paul Harris in Topeka, Kansas
Sunday June 25, 2006

Observer

The squat, bunker-like building in a south Topeka suburb does not look like a place to turn American politics on its head. Nor does Mark Parkinson, a tall, affable man, look too much like a revolutionary. But here, deep in the American heartland, are the warning signs of a political earthquake.
The two-storey office block is Parkinson's campaign headquarters as he runs as Democrat candidate for deputy governor. So far, so normal. Except that only a few weeks ago Parkinson was a Republican. In fact, he was Kansas Republican party chairman.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/print/0,,329513440-119093,00.html

"The Bush Administration is pushing to create a North American Union out of the work on-going in the Department of Commerce under the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America in the NAFTA office headed by Geri Word. A key part of the plan is to expand the NAFTA tribunals into a North American Union court system that would have supremacy over all U.S. law, even over the U.S. Supreme Court, in any matter related to the trilateral political and economic integration of the United States, Canada and Mexico."
http://www.vivelecanada.ca/article.php/20060620071235810

The provisions in NAFTA's charter already supplant US law. Looks like we're ready to be merged, folks. And all this under the radar. I wasn't even sleeping.

Anon: "Quick! Drag out the hemlock and quickstep to Philomena's supine wan countenance in the bathtub!" Posted by: on June 25, 2006 07:18 AM

Frankly Anon -- your comment doesn't make a great deal of sense to me. What exactly is a "supine wan countenance in the bathtub"? Pleasep pardon my ignorance regarding the meaning of your unintelligeble remark!

Philomena, where can I go to read about the treaties that Bush will not discuss? I missed that and the news set my head spinning-something like looking out my window to the west and seeing a tsunami heading in.
Shylurker and wv, great posts.
So much information. so helpful

* http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060513/NEWS02/605130365&SearchID=73244627604496

"The guy" in the above article is about a po' whining "white" supremacist which is its #1 problem... & it'd make it ours, too. Well... & it already IS our problem of course.

clymela -- I will email the articles a bit later. In a bit of a rush to get out the door.

With Pluto in late Sagittarius, the rush of extremist religious madness truly begins...

---
'End times' religious groups want apocalypse sooner than later, and they're relying on high tech -- and red heifers -- to hasten its arrival.

For thousands of years, prophets have predicted the end of the world. Today, various religious groups, using the latest technology, are trying to hasten it.

Their endgame is to speed the promised arrival of a messiah.

For some Christians this means laying the groundwork for Armageddon.

With that goal in mind, mega-church pastors recently met in Inglewood to polish strategies for using global communications and aircraft to transport missionaries to fulfill the Great Commission: to make every person on Earth aware of Jesus' message. Doing so, they believe, will bring about the end, perhaps within two decades.

In Iran, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has a far different vision. As mayor of Tehran in 2004, he spent millions on improvements to make the city more welcoming for the return of a Muslim messiah known as the Mahdi, according to a recent report by the American Foreign Policy Center, a nonpartisan think tank.

--

Ahmadinejad hopes to welcome the Mahdi to Tehran within two years.

Conversely, some Jewish groups in Jerusalem hope to clear the path for their own messiah by rebuilding a temple on a site now occupied by one of Islam's holiest shrines.

--

Some religious scholars saw apocalyptic fever rise as the year 2000 approached, and they expected it to subside after the millennium arrived without a hitch.

It didn't. According to various polls, an estimated 40% of Americans believe that a sequence of events presaging the end times is already underway. Among the believers are pastors of some of the largest evangelical churches in America, who converged at Faith Central Bible Church in Inglewood in February to finalize plans to start 5 million new churches worldwide in 10 years.

---

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/la-me-endtimes22jun22,0,1974441.story?page=1&coll=la-headlines-sports

Earth Changes?

---

Greenland's Ice Sheet Is Slip-Sliding Away
The massive glaciers are deteriorating twice as fast as they were five years ago. If the ice thaws entirely, sea level would rise 21 feet.

JAKOBSHAVN GLACIER, Greenland — Gripping a bottle of Jack Daniel's between his knees, Jay Zwally savored the warmth inside the tiny plane as it flew low across Greenland's biggest and fastest-moving outlet glacier.

Mile upon mile of the steep fjord was choked with icy rubble from the glacier's disintegrated leading edge. More than six miles of the Jakobshavn had simply crumbled into open water.
"My God!" Zwally shouted over the hornet whine of the engines.

-snip-

The ice is so massive that its weight presses the bedrock of Greenland below sea level, so all-concealing that not until recently did scientists discover that Greenland actually might be three islands.

Should all of the ice sheet ever thaw, the meltwater could raise sea level 21 feet and swamp the world's coastal cities, home to a billion people. It would cause higher tides, generate more powerful storm surges and, by altering ocean currents, drastically disrupt the global climate.

Climate experts have started to worry that the ice cap is disappearing in ways that computer models had not predicted.
---

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/la-sci-greenland25jun25,0,6885120,full.story

karen, your last post above brought to mind what Marjorie Orr posted about the opening of Pluto's transit through Capricorn:

--

Pluto, planet of transformation, deconstruction and reconstruction will move into Capricorn, sign of established government and money making enterprises, to stay till 2024. It will trigger the American chart's cardinal T square from 2009 opposing Venus, Jupiter, the Sun and squaring Saturn through the following seven years. It may start with an optimistic push for success or power as the over confident Pluto Jupiter affect kicks in. But following behind will be a dismantling of old structures, a reducing to ashes to clear the ground for the phoenix to arise.

--
Could this be the push for the "NAFTA Nation" and the dissilution of the US in all but name?

The only thing more disgusting to me than the fact that Bush and Co are doing this so clandestinely, is the fact that they fully expect to get away with it.

They won't.

I'm taking your "They won't." and depositing it in my account at the Fervent Hopes Bank, NEOBuckeye. Oh, may you be right!

"It's in the Constitution." And let us hope we never forget what's in ours. Gripping video:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1071706626610787715&q=freedom+to+Fascism%3F

http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060513/NEWS02/605130365&SearchID=73244627604496
please see it!

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