Hi Morgana,
I always appreciate your moon musings...Great stuff! Thanks for your efforts.
I usually lurk, but felt compelled this time to write in and say I felt that same earthquake you mentioned, after midnite. We live in Scotts Valley and it woke us up. I've had several earthquake dreams lately and figure they're messages to be prepared. May we ALL be Safe, Protected and Well...
Abundant Autumn blessings,
~Shine

I hate to be the one to say it but the Clintons are the same side of the same coin as Bush they are just enablers. Is there any other reason that Bill has been so cozy with George I?
I can't think of any.

Furthermore Bill speaking out against * is just a ploy to make us think that there is a dime's worth of difference between Hillary and *.

I just wish that the Clintons would step aside and allow the Democratic party evolve into a grassroots organization which will be more responsive to the needs of its constituents and not the insulated and out of touch DLC.

Unfortunately a lot of progressive Democrats are nostalgic for the Clinton days(anything will be better than what is happening to us now)and he is using that to keep the DLC in control of the party so they can lose another national race purposedly in 2008.

Shine please drop me a note a seawitch@pacbell.net we're in Boulder Creek.

Wow, that's amazing about Clinton. I was just griping about him to my wife this morning and then he shows up and smacks * around. Well, I now know why!

It's about time.

Great article.

Now for a little e-activism. This went out to several hundred *national* media types. Now you can send it to locals (think globally, act locally). This would make a BIG DIFFERENCE...

papers, tv stations, radio stations.

It's well sourced and does a lot of the work pointing people to great resources. Also share it with your friends.

*****IT'S TIME...HE'S AT 35%...IT'S TIME*******

HOWEVER, HERE IS SOMETHING EVERYBODY CAN DO.
IT'S SIMPLE.

JUST CUT AND PASTE THE FOLLOWING AND SEND IT TO YOUR LOCAL NEWS PAPERS AND TELEVISION/RADIO OUTLETS.

NOTHING CHANGES UNLESS THE VOTES COUNT.

THIS TELLS THE MEDIA WHAT'S WHAT AND WHERE TO GO TO FIND OUT WHY WE'RE IN SUCH LOUSY SHAPE:
----------------------------------------------------------------

***(((((Cut & Paste, email or snail mail to your local media)))))***

----------------------------------------------------------------

September 19, 2005
For Immediate Release
From: Concerned Americans
IT’S NOW A QUESTION OF LETITIMACY: WHO REALLY WON IN 2004.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In 2005 Federal government gives Louisiana $27 million for Help America Vote Act to purchase machines for the entire state.
http://170.94.58.9/data/agency_budgets/0063.htm

In 2004 the Bush administration cut Army Corps of Engineers budget for levee maintenance in the New Orleans area by $26 million dollars.
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001051313
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why is the Bush administration so intent on spreading voting machines and software?

Could the reason be that Bush almost always does better in electronic voting precincts?

Could another reason be that almost all the electronic voting companies are owned by right wing Republicans?

1) In early 2004, the BBC reported on serious questions about American electronic voting. David Dill, a computer expert at Stanford, questioned the reliability of voting systems, owned and operated by private companies who keep all data and operations information private. BBC pointed out that in Brazil, a separate organization exists to look at electronic voting machines during and after an election in order to keep vendors honest. In America, Diebold, etc. will not allow anyone to examine their machines since the software is “proprietary.” We are voting blind with no way to check the process or even do a recount....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3489877.stm

2) About 80% of the votes in this country are now tabulated—totaled—by just three companies, two controlled by right wing Republicans and the third by a British company. These and other voting machine and system companies have a checkered record, some employing ex felons. This article by reporter LynnLandes details the sorry situation in detail with references.
http://www.ecotalk.org/VotingMachineCompanies.htm

Professor Avi Rubin of Johns Hopkins University did a study on one of the most popular voting machines, Diebold, in 2003 and found numerous security problems. This was not a partisan effort but a look by a computer security expert. The results are depressing.
http://avirubin.com/vote.pdf

VotersUnite.Org has a powerful, extremely well documented book on voting machines, tabulators and the Federal Help America Vote Act (HAVA). It’s called MythBreakers and is available as a PDF file.
http://votersunite.org/

There is no argument “… to counter the loud and vociferous assertions of numerous computer experts who insist that electronic voting machines can be rigged. And that if they can be rigged, they are… because if you leave the bank vault open, sooner or later someone is going to rob it.” Lynn Landes http://www.ecotalk.org/Sequoia.htm

3) Mark Crispin Miller wrote an excellent article in Harper’s Magazine called "None Dare Call it Stolen" which lays out the case for a stolen election. This is new and excellent; they like Harpers. This details the voter suppression are documented, the fake “terrorist alert” to stop vote counting when no alert was issued, the extra Bush votes which magically appeared.
http://www.harpers.org/ExcerptNoneDare.html

4) Exit Polls have been used all over the world to catch election fraud. They are used by the center run by President Carter, other international voting rights groups, and most recently in the Ukraine. In the Ukraine, the difference between the vote count and the exit polls was so different, a new election was held. The United States government was the main force behind getting a new election because of problems uncovered by exit polls. Yet US exit polls in presidential elections, highly accurate in 1996 and 2000, showed a clear victory for John Kerry but these were completely ignored. In fact, the final exit poll released election night, after 1:00am had to be adjusted with actual results to show a Bush win (which made it something other than a poll, at that point).

Professor Steve Freeman of the University of Pennsylvania outlined a simple set of arguments in February 2005. How could the exit polls be so far off?
http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/1970/

A group of leading statisticians produced an academic study of exit poll – actual vote discrepancies in April 2005 showing strong evidence of election fraud.
http://electionarchive.org/ucvAnalysis/US/Exit_Polls_2004_Edison-Mitofsky.pdf

The following article shows the incredible case made for a stolen election through a careful analysis of the exit polls we were never supposed to see. The final poll released contradicted the three previous polls of 13,600 respondents. The “virgin” exit polls demonstrate clearly a Kerry victory. The exit polls are the only voting on Election Day with a 100% paper trail. The voting on machines has no such back up. It’s a fascinating article.
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0507/S00238.htm

IT’S TIME TO SERIOUSLY INVESTIGATE THE QUESTION:
WHO REALLY WON IN 2004.

Whoo-hoo! Morgana music. And it is music, indeed! From your keyboard to the ears of the American people. Yes!

Morgana, love this article. I saw Clinton on all those shows and it was great to hear someone be so articulate. I am suspicious of Clinton and would certainly keep a careful watch on this group but nonetheless, it was great listening to someone sound presidential. But the Cosmic yod going on with Jupiter sextile Pluto and inconj by Mars is right on Clinton's Moon, so this is a point of destiny for him as well.

Let me also point everyone to Nancy's article, with both Morgana and Nancy posting this is a real treat.

Don't know if any of you have seen this, but the government is asking for donations for rebuilding Iraq. Next thing you know we will be holding fund raisers, you know "bake sales" to start a war. Iran will of course cost the most, but there are those little countries around the world that would cost us hardly anything. Just a billion or two.

http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/news/politics/12679449.htm

Morgana,
Always a treat. We were having little underground rumblings here a few weeks ago, now all is quiet. (I'm right on the San Andreas _Joshua Tree.)

Roderick,
i understand your view.
However, i am holding back on judging Bill Clinotn. One thing i've noted over time is the man is a master strategist. Have you ever read "The Art of War" by Sun Tzu? It's an ancient text that follows a patterning similar to taosim and the even more ancient tomte warrior of scandinavia. It speaks of the forgotten image of the masculine -powerful forces. My sense is that Bill Clinton has spent time in deep study with this text. The true warrior knows his emeny well. He is the one that moves in ways that cannot be seen.

tseka

Done Mike and I am sending this on to a friend who has thousands on her email list

tseka, if I may, I do have one question: Who is the enemy that Bill Clinton knows so well? (PS: I'm serious.)

PS
For those who have asked i saw White Raven this afternoon. She was circling with two black ravens just a few feet above my head for several minutes. She was stark white with dark eyes amazingly brilliant against this full moon september blue sky. She was very aware of my attention. i was carrying my camera but she slipped away before i could get a pict of her...i do have some from a friend if any want to see her....

felt like a gift of the full moon-hope.

Shylurker,

The question is valid and why i'm waiting and watching Bill Clinton. I am still not certain of who he aligns with. He certainly knows the Bush family well and knows the face of the global players. Whether or not he knows the unseen ones who control these men i can only speculate.
What i see and appreciate with Clinton, regardless of whether i agree with his policies is his ability to distill difficult to grasp concepts and present them to the public in ways that are not only understandable but also inspires support.

Tseka and Shine, yesterday when the moon was waxing to full my husband and I were on a a bike run for the "Last Day's of Summer', miles and miles of Harley's, our route eventually took us over Hwy 35 which is Skyline Blvd. and the rim of the San Andreas, it's an incredible head rush. From my perch on the back of a big bagger I mused about the the current transits and the potential for Gaia activity, even casting a glance at the seismometers at 35 & 9. The other side of that ride was the moon conjunct my asc., ouch, we dumped the harley and I don't bounce well at 50 something.

WE so live in interesting times.

"those who control" really aren't unseen at all, they are the "bankers' of the world and the top dog of those bankers are the Federal Reserve Bank. The world is divided in quadrants, the European Markets, the Asian Markets, the Middle East Markets, the South America quadrants, the North America quadrants, and the Pacific Rim quadrant, these are all divided up with "old name" bankers running the show. "Follow the money," the reason that quote keeps showing up in the world is that's where all the control resides and nicely divided among the bankers in these quadrants.

Arianna is a pretty good political pundit, this is her take on the Clinton interviews, not really nice.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/russert-watch-i-think-t_b_7537.html

Morgana, thank you.

Would you check out the following astrologically:

I was wondering about the significance of the timing of the first Clinton Global Initiative just held on Sept. 15-17 in NY. It will meet annually at the time of the opening of the UN.

Participants ranged from Prince Abdullah of Jordan to Rupert Murdoch and George Soros to Nobel Peace Prize recipients Dr. Wangari M. Maathai of Kenya(environmentalist) and Dr. Shirin Ebadi of Iran(human rights).

Special Opening Plenary Session: Perspectives of the Global Challenges of Our Time was Thursday, September 15, 2005 4:15 pm

The Four Initiatives are:

1. The Escape From Poverty
2.Religion, Conflict, and Reconciliation
3.Climate Change: Business Opportunity & Challenge
4.Governance, Enterprise and Investment

Members are asked to make a commitment to do something in one of these four areas and at next year's meeting will be accountable for what they did during the year.

I saw a question and answer session on PBS moderated by Christine Amanpour. It gave me some hope.

More information here:
http://clintonglobalinitiative.com/home.nsf/pt_home

Another take on a different Clinton interview, not on NBC's"Meet the Press" but on ABC's"This Week":

>>>>>>>
"Clinton launches withering attack on Bush on Iraq, Katrina, budget

WASHINGTON (AFP) - Former US president Bill Clinton sharply criticised George W. Bush for the Iraq War and the handling of Hurricane Katrina, and voiced alarm at the swelling US budget deficit.

Breaking with tradition under which US presidents mute criticisms of their successors, Clinton said the Bush administration had decided to invade Iraq "virtually alone and before UN inspections were completed, with no real urgency, no evidence that there were weapons of mass destruction."

The Iraq war diverted US attention from the war on terrorism "and undermined the support that we might have had," Bush said in an interview with an ABC's "This Week"" programme."

Please beware of Clinton. He's taking immediate full advantage of the confusion. He's heading us off at the pass just when the people are discovering their own power. He wants back in the WH. He is part of how we got here. He will try to mollify and subvert our strength. Make us lean on him. The price is way, way, way too high.
We are always in danger and must remain alert. We don't need anyone's help at the moment. Thank you very much.

Jaycee sure I'll take a look thanks for the datum. It'll likely be tomorrow night after I get off work pdt.
Listening to Clinton is so refreshing after the propaganda propeller Bush.
I feel there is a much much bigger picture going on, come'on Bush has broken the greatest nation on earth, the US of A.

He has a Moon in Taurus in the 8th. Mars is retrograding there and he is making a grab for power. Don't let him get away with it.

If I had a choice between the lesser of two evils, Bush or Clinton? I'd take Clinton.
We are all aware of Slicky Willy on this site. He may be part of how we got here, he does however have the brains to get us out of it, something Bush does not. And I certainly don't see another Democrat standing up, Clinton however some may dislike it is still a world player. Time will tell. Either way folks we're on that train going over the cliff.

We're afraid.

We're not used to no leadership. But this is something we must experience to gain wisdom.
We don't have to make a choice at all right now. We need to tend our wound and trust ourselves. We've got to stop being misled. We are hurting way too much to make a conscious decision but we should be in survival mode and totally alert so we don't go over that cliff.

We can stop the motion and we will when Mars goes retrograde. Please have faith.

THIS REALLY UPSETS ME. NOT ONLY ABOUT NOLA BUT ABOUT FIRST RESPONDERS TO 9/11

What transits show how this could play out?
>>>>>>>
Neck Deep in Toxic Gumbo

By Nicole Makris, AlterNet.

. . . "Virtually anything could be in the water," said Jim Elder, the EPA's former National Director of Drinking Water and Groundwater. "I'm not sure that anywhere has ever seen all these chemicals put together in the same place. That's why people are referring to this as a toxic soup. I think that's a simple but apt description."

Elder says the many heavy industries based in Louisiana have been leaching chemicals into the soil and groundwater for decades. But Katrina stirred up an even deadlier mix of waste: submerged automobiles are leaking oil, gasoline and other chemicals into the floodwater; asbestos that may have been contained in old buildings has been released by the flooding and the collapse of buildings; raw sewage, decaying body parts, offshore oil rigs and possibly ruptured pipelines all pave the way for a myriad of serious and potentially fatal medical conditions.

Hazards to Heroes

Hugh Kaufman, who helped found the EPA and has worked for the agency for 35 years, was the chief EPA investigator for the post-9/11 emergency response. He's now a senior policy analyst for EPA's Office of Solid Waste and Emergency Response, and he's concerned about the millions of residents who may return to the new, toxic Louisiana and the rescue workers wading into the lethal stew.

"After 9/11, because the government did not do its job properly and provide the responders with the proper clothing and equipment -- like respirators -- now over 75 percent of the responders are sick as dogs," he said. "And they're starting to die off, four years after their heroic efforts in responding to 9/11.

"And I'm concerned the same thing is happening down in that region of the country," he continued, "where the responders are not provided respirators and the proper equipment to protect them from their exposures."

http://www.alternet.org/envirohealth/25552/

Good morning AW. The sun is out again!
I am printing out both new articles, to carry with me & look forward to reading them.
And Mike, I will print out the election info and distribute it.
Our WOrk for Peace group is meeting again Sun, to formulate a plan for where do we go from here! It's timely!!
PQ

Morgana! Potent, just potent! It's going to be one helluva ride. . .as you experienced, it seems, first hand. ;)

karen

Morgana, I love this article! There is so much here.

I completely agree with you on Clinton. I watched most of it on NBC, and I can't tell you what it felt like to listen to brilliance. Certainly they did their best during his presidency to keep him from governing. It was NAFTA that threw me for a loop and Clinton's decrlation that B* was a good man. I'm confused, but watching him speak brilliantly to all the issues almost brought me to tears.

On an occasioin when Nancy Tappe was in my part of the country she gave a talk on future politics. This was during the Reagan administration. She said the next President, who turned out to be B* 1, would take us to war, but he would be a one term President. Then would come the youngest President we have had and he would be a two term President. He would be the greatest President barr none, but he would have a hard time staying in Office.

I'd say she was accurate.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-outlook19sep19,0,5416840.story?track=tothtml
RONALD BROWNSTEIN / WASHINGTON OUTLOOK

Privatized Global Problem Solving, Care of Clinton Alumni

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/091905Z.shtml

Wake Up
By Cindy Sheehan

So we have come to cash this check - a check that will give us upon demand the riches of freedom and the security of justice. We have also come to this hallowed spot to remind America of the fierce urgency of now. This is no time to engage in the luxury of cooling off or to take the tranquilizing drug of gradualism.
-- MLK, Jr. Aug. 28, 1963, I Have a Dream speech

What Bush's Katrina shows once again is that my son died for nothing. If you listen to Bush - and fewer and fewer are, thank goodness - we are in Iraq in part due to 9/11. All our president has been talking about has been protecting this country since 9/11. That's why people voted for him in the last election. Katrina shows it's all as sham, a fraud, a disaster as large as Katrina itself.

Hundreds of billions and tens of thousands of innocent lives wasted later, what have we achieved? Nothing. Casey died for nothing and Bush says others have to die for those that have died already.

Enough, George! What is disgusting is not, as the first lady says, criticism of you, but rather the crimes you've committed against this country and our sons and daughters. Stop hiding behind your twisted idea of God and stop destroying this country.

This week I arrive in Washington DC to begin my Vigil at the White House just like I did in Texas. But this time I'll be joined by Katrina victims as well. In your America we are all victims. The failed bookends of your Presidency are Iraq and Katrina.

It is time for all of us to stand up and be counted: to show the media, Congress, and this inept, corrupt, and criminal administration that we mean business. It is time to get off of our collective behinds to show the people who are running our country into oblivion that we will stand for it no longer. That we want our country back and we want our nation's young people back home, safe and sound, on our shores to help protect America. That it is time for a change in our country's "leadership." That we will never go away until our dreams are reality.

We have so-called leaders in our country who are waiting for the correct "politically expedient" time to speak up and out against the occupation of Iraq. It is no sweat for our politicos to wait for the right time, because not one of them has a child in harm's way. I don't care if the politician is a Democrat or a Republican, this is not about politics. Being a strong leader to guide our country out of the quagmire and mistake of Iraq will require people of courage and determination to stand up and say: "I don't care if I win the next election, people are dying in Iraq every day and families are being decimated." We, as the 62% of Americans who want our troops to begin coming home, will follow such a leader down the difficult but oh-so-rewarding path of peace with justice.

It is no longer time for the tranquilizing drug of gradualism. It never has been the time for that. Our "now" is so fiercely urgent. Like my daughter, Carly, wrote in the last verse of her "A Nation Rocked to Sleep" poem:

Have you ever heard the sound of a Nation Being Rocked to Sleep? Our leaders want to keep us numb so the pain won't be too deep, But if we the people allow them to continue, another mother will weep, Have you heard the sound of a Nation Being Rocked to Sleep?

Wake up: See you in DC on the 24th.

I just posted on Nancy's article the issues world wide with this recent yod and the Meptune activation of the 1999 Grand Fixed Square Eclipse of 1999. Things are not as they seem in the world as we continue to struggle with who is good and who is bad in this country and others. We are being "educated" to accept a NWO with a central world government and we are being shown that the single governmental systems are not working. Look beyond out borders at what is happening in the rest of the world.

Does anyone wonder why the MSM who has spent 5 years pumping up this administration, suddenly makes the Clinton Initiatives their top program with Bill, sounding and looking so Presidential, their main topic, still with no tough questions for him on what he means by priviatizing the "world's problems" with corporations and not governments. No questions on who is involved and what their interest would be in doing this, what would they get out of it? Something is wrong with this picture and before 2006 is over we will know what that is.

I've listed the "connecting dots" under Nancy's article, I hope all will just pay attention to what is going on in the world and who is being positioned to resolve those problems.

this is an excellent analysis of the problem with the "Clinton Initiatives' and why it's obscured for us.

That yod with apex Mars hit Clinton's Moon, and activated his Taurus (will continue to do so for several months) connection to people and connects to the Jupiter/Saturn grand conj. indicating him to be a big player as the next several years unfold. He's a fixed sign so I expect he is as internally cautious as all fixed signs about change, plus Saturn is now in his Sun sign making him a bit more cautious and making a Saturn return. The following article explains very well the questions regarding the Clinton Initiatives and I expect in time the people will force those issues to be addressed, but they can perhaps be looked upon as a "start' not an outcome

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2099768

Sally.....I am wondering if something I read which Claudia sent from another astrologer in her predicitions for Aug/Sept makes sense here....that in September the world would have to take a hard look at realities (ugly ones at that) and come to some painful compromises. It is apparent that the corporate control extolled by the Bush pirates and barbarians is based on power and patronage. And stupidity and greed. It looks to me that Clinton (whose education at Oxford was in international diplomacy and law, I think) would base his world view on (necessary) business/corporate participation AND non profit participation..not necessarily leaving out government, but good grief, our so called government gave him nothing but grief, and he wasn't able to accomplish much....., and from the sound of the Brownstein article, Clinton was buttonholing people, not the other way around (seems more like how Bush gets things...people come to him for their pot o gold).

The next hard question is, will the world government be inevitable anyway (I think it is)....and do you want Clinton to construct it or the neocons? I mean, they have dones such a sparkling job up to this point.

One thing seems certain from all the astro articles.....the US is going into an uncertain future, and most of that will not be as king of the hill anymore. What is left but international cooperation? We may not like the sound of it....but those are the painful compromises we might need to be looking at, also.

PS...this morning my little meditation with my pendulum produced a scary one....Dec 20 2005 president ' radiates' Iran. Kind of close to that Dec 21 date.....

Morgana, WHERE on Hwy 35 did you dump? Oy....it is such a beautiful place, and I saw some guys on Saturday evening (I ws driving back from mural painting in Benica), on 101, they were stopped just before the 280 split in SF....pretty colorful, fixing, one guy's Harley....oh, I hope you are ok....

Pat C....glad you posted the predictions on the presidencies....sure were right. I wish there were 'more of the story'....

Tseka....yesterday I was talking to a friend and started to tell the Raven story when all of a sudden, the hill behind my house exploded into Raven talk....raucous bunch they were! I had to laugh, they knew I was talking about them....and then last night flipped on PBS Nature series, and it was on Ravens ...including the 8 permanent Ravens on duty at The Tower of London or Buckingham Palace, I missed most of the story....they are privates in the British Service.... it included the legend that Britain would be protected as long as Ravens guarded the area.....they let all of them except 2 die off, and Britain suffered a huge slide in the Empire....someone wised up and put 8 back on duty....

The Carter-Baker Commission Report entitled Building Confidence in U.S. Elections was published today. According to the PentaPost summary, the key recommendations are "photo IDs for all voters, verifiable paper trails for electronic voting machines and impartial administration of elections."
The photo ID proposal is the one that will generate the most heat:
http://www.democrats.com/node/6179

Hi Everyone: Wonderful articles from Morgana and Nancy!

I posted a Clinton question regarding heading up the U.N. when Annan steps down. U.N. currently having a Saturn return too.

Would anyone care to line up Clinton's chart with the U.N.'s?

Please my post on Nancy's thread for clarification.

MIKE: I just want to mention about a possible set back in voter rights being introduced to Congress which will require voter I.D.
priviately funded, unaccountable commission including Jimmy Carter, James Baker, III.
http://www.conyersblog.us

Note Conyer's comment's about I.D.'s being used only by dyspotic nations.

Judi G, I left a note for you on Nancy's thread.
I am never sure how to post with two articles being introduced at the same time. Sorry. It is post #20.

The New York Police Department "pulled the plug" on Cindy Sheehan's microphone as she addressed a group of supporters this afternoon.

Reported on http://www.villagevoice.com

Beverly, NYPD can be vicious. Friend of mine was arrested during the last peace march. In fact, he was one of many set-up so that he could be arrested. Finally all charges against him have been dropped. (As with all the others who were arrested because of the police department's provocation!)

Much discussion has taken place regarding the banking/corporate powers pushing us closer to ruination. Read the interview with John Perkins published in this month's http://www.thesunmagazine.org It's another eye opener.

John Perkins was a former economic hit man. There are many economic hit men and women operating throughout the world. John Perkins just happened to see the light, wrote a book outlining all the vagaries of the way corporations operate throughout the world. The interview is quite profound.

karen

From the conservatives:
>>DEAD AGENDA
Publicly, the White House will tell you that it intends to push ahead with two of its big legislative issues throughout the fall: making permanent the first term tax cuts and Social Security reform.

But at this stage of the game, barring some imaginative political moves that bear some resemblance to the Bush Administration circa 2002, Republicans on Capitol Hill and even some longtime Bush team members in various Cabinet level departments say this Administration is done for.

"You run down the list of things we thought we could accomplish and you have to wonder what we thought we were thinking," says a Bush Administration member who joined on in 2001. "You get the impression that we're more than listless. We're sunk."<<

http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=8762

jm
i read the Spectator article this morning and my cheeks hurt from my smile. They can all sink into Norquist's bathtub. i'd offer you the honor of pulling the plug if you so desire...

winderful article Morgana, and great comments so far. Sally, I'm with ya on keeping a close eye on the Clinton "agenda". judi, he IS a neocon.
Does anybody remember which article it was (I think by Nancy) which discussed the events around Sept. 25?- 27, or so? Big time stuff on the calendar- Cheney's operation, hurricane Rita hitting Texas, and the D.C. protest all on the 24th. I'd like to re-read it. Thanks!!!

I'm truly honored, tseka. I accept.

Yes, Norquist's little bathtub.

Beverly, posted to Nancy's article on what you asked....

And Bill Clinton is not and never has been a neocon. Neocons were specifically at the U of Chicago (sorry, might have been Illinois) and studied political science and theorgy under Prof. Leo Strauss, who was a German; Perle, Wolfie, Cheney.....a number of others I've forgotten...they are a part of that cadre.

Clinton brokers deals between groups....that seems to be his talent....to get people into the same room and hammer things out. Doesn't mean he is a neocon or a conservative.

From John Kerry's speech at Brown U....http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/speeches/spc_2005_09_19.html

Katrina is a symbol of all this administration does and doesn't do. Michael Brown -- or Brownie as the President so famously thanked him for doing a heck of a job - Brownie is to Katrina what Paul Bremer is to peace in Iraq; what George Tenet is to slam dunk intelligence; what Paul Wolfowitz is to parades paved with flowers in Baghdad; what Dick Cheney is to visionary energy policy; what Donald Rumsfeld is to basic war planning; what Tom Delay is to ethics; and what George Bush is to “Mission Accomplished” and "Wanted Dead or Alive." The bottom line is simple: The "we'll do whatever it takes" administration doesn't have what it takes to get the job done.

Bush's Management and Budget guy has been arrested....this is something tha came out of the Abramoff investigation....300 BILLION bucks missing!

Farrout....I have a subscription to Sun Magazine and forgot to give them my address when I moved....oops...thanks for posting the article, it made me remember...J

judi, perhaps it's a case of semantic interpretation, from Wikipedia:One might also observe that during the 1970s, for example in a book on the movement by Peter Steinfels, the use of the term neoconservative was never identified with the writings of Leo Strauss. The near synonymicity, in some quarters, of neoconservatism and Straussianism is a much more recent phenomenon, which suggests that perhaps two quite distinct movements have become merged into one, either in fact or in the eyes of certain beholders.

I should've been more explanatory. Clinton is a member of: CFR, Bilderberg, Trilateral Commission, Rhodes Foundation. Can't get more "neocon" than that TO ME.

Poll: Would you vote for Ahhhhhhnold?
http://forums.prospero.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=kr-mercurynews&tid=2275.1&vote=2

Peg...can't paint them all with the same brush. Read the Perkins article....much of what we have experienced in terms of economic disasterous policies re the World Bank et al come from the way people have been trained in economics (Harvard School of Business, MBA programs all over the country, Enron being the poster child) by a system that DOESN'T WORK (well, it works for a while...for the mafia). It will take a long time to change the perceptions....and Iraq and Saddam Hussein were the BIGGEST failures of the system ever, which resulted in this rapacious war. No different from Kissenger and Pinochet and Chile and every assassination and failed dam in south america....until some of the elected officials said, no way...not paying back any of THESE loans....some of them get assassinated (or threatened, as Hugo Chavez is)....

The model is wrong. It remains to be seen if Clinton is using a different model.....but the world IS starting to see a different model, and it appears that the people involved in the Clinton Initiatives, at least some of them, are using a new one. and in fact, Perkins says in his article that not everyone at the World Bank, for instance, is a venal assassinating rapacious banker....only some of them. He said the newer generation is much more conscious of the illegality of what the economic 'hit' men set out to do.

I am not going to condemn the whole idea of helping to develop other nations until I see that ALL of them are evil SOBs....but trade is here and is here to stay. And not all corporations are evil....

tseka and jm--the neoCons sinking in Norquist's infamous bathtub--what an image!

I envision tub surrounded by AstroWorlders playing Taps on the kazoo.

I'll read the article judi, and thanks. (I'll never agree with your perception on Clinton though, too much evidence to the contrary.)

Oh boy...and the Federal Elections Commission (FEC) has sued the GOP Club for Growth (no it is NOT a club for bald men to grow hair)
.http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050919/ap_on_go_ot/fec_political_lawsuit

All of a sudden the jugular is showing .....and looks as if much is coming down on that jugular.

Clinton:
The country in 2008, and I think in 2006, will be in a desperate mood to come together and move forward. I think they're going to reject ideological solutions that are not fact-based, and I think they're going to want a government that works.

Everyone seems to want Clinton to be what THEY want him to be....

I say Clinton is what he has always been....a basic back room politician who gets people together and makes them work it out (as he talks about in his book). That is a form of leadership....and very wonky at that. And that is who he is, not what other people want him to be (as Arianna was saying in her article....) I mean, geez he IS a Libra rising, no one is going to get a definitive direction from him! He is always going to be that classic Libran.....'well, but on the OTHER hand' blance......boy, suddenly that all makes sense....thanks for the ascendant, Sally!

from tseka (I am posting it for her) in a conversation about Clinton's spiritual formation, or what crystalized in him at a young age....(the alcoholic parental abuse type often becomes extremely sensitive psychically.)

One thought i have re clinton is that he is aware of difference between economics -capitalism and government. i saw him make the distinction. i think he sees himself as one who can be of the people and honor our declaration of independence and constitution and still see the value of a world economic system. Truthfully i think this is the same with Al Gore. Whereas Bushco is destroying our constitution and making us irrevocably the capitalist corporate state of america. Where i see "enlilghtened" governance was in his court appointments and how he used the cabinet to effect change. A lot of what happens in America is really what gets enforced by justice and cabinet. who gets the bucks first who gets delayed...This is the part that people are missing. The separation of church, finances and state. under bush reagan nixon etc we funneled our tax dollars to corporations. Eisenhower started it when he gave away atomic energy commission which we the people paid for to private parties. I think Honeywell was part of that sweet deal.

I wonder about a gore/clinton ticket in 08. I am still furious with Gore (as I assume many of you are too for his wimping out in the 2000 election and recount). It would be an interesting full circle in some ways.

Well good news, FDA reversed itself. Thank you Chiron!

Well, you all heard the story about the FDA appointing a vet to head womens health. Here's the sequel, somebody got to them and said no, no. Did you know the vet's speciality is "animal husbandry." You can't make this stuff up!

---------------------------------------------------

FDA Rethinks Women's Chief
Toigo Is Acting Head; Agency Denies Naming Veterinary Official

By Marc Kaufman
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, September 20, 2005; Page A21

One week ago, the Office of Women's Health of the Food and Drug Administration sent an e-mail notice to women's groups and others announcing the appointment of Norris Alderson as its new acting director.

An FDA veteran trained in animal husbandry who spent much of his career in the agency's Center for Veterinary Medicine, Alderson quickly became the subject of active and largely negative comment on the Internet and elsewhere.

The Office of Women's Health serves as a liaison with women's health groups and as an advocate on women's issues; critics said that a man with a primarily veterinary background could not properly fill the role.

The last director, Susan Wood, resigned last month to protest the agency's unwillingness to make a decision on whether to make emergency contraception more easily available.

Three days after the Alderson announcement, the FDA main press office sent out a very different announcement. It said that 20-year FDA veteran Theresa A. Toigo would be the new acting director of the women's health office, and that she would be a champion for women's health inside and outside the agency....Asked yesterday who exactly was running the office, FDA spokeswoman Suzanne Trevino said that Alderson had never been appointed acting director. She said that Toigo would take over from the departed Wood, and that her office knew nothing about the statement regarding Alderson, who is the agency's associate commissioner for science....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...

Big Dawg Re-emerges and both FOB and his enemies are befuddled.

"He's gone to the dark side"
"He's a neo-con"
"He's setting up another tri-lateral commission, he's CFR, he's with them"

Has it occurred to anyone he gathered together people of wealth, captains of industry but with a difference? Soros, with a conscience. Turner, who single handedly changed the education of people the world over and contributed in the neighborhood of 2 billion dollars to the UN -

Clinton has gathered together captains of industry with a social conscience.The 2000 people in his group are all people who have contributed to the betterment of poor people in poor countries; they've founded schools, hospitals; and he challenges them to name what they will do next to better the world and how much of their money they will contribute to their next idea for betterment of the poor.

Big Dawg has established another shadow government, or is in the process of openly doing so - one that has the opposite goal of the current shadow government.

Is he a globalist? yes

Is he a globalist in the sense of the
Rockefellers, and the Bushes - for greed and power and to enslave the little people? Is there anyone who would dare to answer yes to that question?

Only a fool.

Clever man he is. He has spent the last year wining and dining and charming the chief of the global community, that community bent on enslaving the little people. Probably laid out his plans to help the poor people of the world to him - even enlisted his help in saving Sumatrans and fundraising for their misfortune of
the Tsunami.

Therefore, the assassin in chief could certainly not be suspicious of Big Dawg's gathering of wealthy fools who want to better the lives of little people who don't matter...certainly he would think, "let them throw their money away."

I'm not certain that Big Dawg has made himself any safer, but the time spent over the past year charming the monster, has bought him time to get his shadow government of Kings and Queens and Prime Ministers and the uberwealthy
philanthropists off the ground. 2000 of these people showwed up by invitation only, because they
recognize positive leadership, as opposed to greed and destruction of the world in power now in front and behind the screen.

We should not depend on the leadership, philantrhopy and charity of the wealthy?

I used to think that too. Until 52% of America elected a man who has a lesser IQ than they themselves possess. Americans in general are so g-damned stupid that they dont deserve to elect any official. A look at who controls the White House, the House of Representatives and the Senate is proof of that.

Man alive, do I love the kazoo... one of the funniest instruments ever created by man.

The jug bands of the Mississippi Delta made that hilarious little bugger famous along with their spoons, washboards, empty corn liquor jugs, wash tubs, and everything else they could find in the barnyard on their slave's budgets.
They made uproarious, joyful music.

Thanks for that brain injection, Barbara. Thank you so much. What an image.

The United States of America is a magnificent, beautiful, richly diverse country with people of all types and degrees of intelligence. We have produced great writers, artists, thinkers, musicians, actors and comedians, architects, mothers, fathers, grandparents, and have enriched the entire world. This will continue.

We've been through fairly good political times and bad ones. We've done good deeds and bad. It's all a vast cycle.

But human talent and potential always exists in the American people. And the ability to aspire to greatness will endure through all times.

I love my country and I will see it through the hard times. Like all my loved ones.

gore didn't wimp out, his family was threatened.

I agree about Gore. His family was threatened and the family members were too young and too old to care for themselves. Things done to the Gores were criminal. He decided to retreat and regroup. His mother-in-law died and his son graduated from high school after Bush stole the election. What Gore may do from now on is a different matter. He knew he was surrounded by criminals and wimps who feared the criminals.
We might look into that matter to see what is coming up for him. But, I think he would rather be a teacher and educator than president.bjt

Poll needs help: Who's to blame for NOLA mess?
http://starbulletin.com/poll/index.html

The warmongers are turning to the publishing world for spin advice---

Positioning: Saatchi's Roberts Advised DOD On Rebranding 'War'
CEO says 'terror' theme 'has no equity.'
September 19, 2005

Saatchi & Saatchi CEO Kevin Roberts has been telling the Pentagon how to spin the war on terror.

His advice? "Call our struggle, the Fight for a Better World."

Roberts was invited by the U.S. Department of Defense to address "various U.S. Defense Intelligence Agencies" at a conference in New York held last March 9, according to a copy of Roberts' speech obtained by Brandweek.

His recommendation—derived from his 2004 book, Lovemarks: The Future Beyond Brands—bears a conceptual similarity to a term top Bush Administration officials used in August to replace the phrase "war on terror."

That phrase, "the global struggle against violent extremism," was widely ridiculed when Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and others began using it instead of "the war on terror." Government officials have since gone back to using the "war on terror" moniker.

Roberts—better known for his strong relationship with Procter & Gamble than his insights into suicide bombing—confirmed the March meeting. "I was surprised to be invited," he said, adding that "the audience was intelligent, engaged, open and pragmatic; they listened keenly and we had a very lively discussion."

Roberts said he did not know whether his words provided the thematic origin for the Pentagon's ongoing attempt to rebrand the war. But he stood by it last week: "They should change their language. The 'Fight for a Better World' is more inclusive, more optimistic and more engaging." (A copy of the speech can be downloaded at Brandweek.com).

Roberts is certainly not the only Madison Avenue image maker who has offered advice in Washington or taken a hand in branding the conflict in Iraq and elsewhere. But his words offer a rare look at what those people are actually saying.

The image of the war has become increasingly important as support for the Iraq conflict has declined. The key to winning, President Bush told the United Nations last Wednesday, is that "we must defeat the terrorists on the battlefield and we must also defeat them in the battle of ideas."

Roberts' speech was a long (and at times rambling) one, but the main theme was that America had to change the way potential terrorists feel emotionally about the U.S., and that the current way American officials describe the war is hurting, not helping, matters. "The War on Terror doesn't have a lot of positive equity going for it," he warned.

Roberts started with his qualifications to tackle the issue: "I graduated top of my class at the hard-nosed Pepsi school for negotiation, and for my prize I got project Babylon—to build seven Pepsi plants in Iraq." He also mentioned that the Saatchi founders were born in Baghdad.

He then suggested that America seek to become as beloved a brand as Harley-Davidson or Apple, so that the country becomes a "Lovemark" for foreigners.

Roberts suggested that in addition to utilizing the U.S. armed forces ("a threatening, punitive, brutal and unilateral fighting force full of young, slightly pissed-off males"), America also needs to tackle poverty and disease.

"I'm not cynically proposing that you change the language and not actually do anything about making the world a better place . . . [America needs a] 21st century organization to tackle global AIDS, malnutrition and malaria . . . This becomes your 'product' that you communicate, campaign and recruit for, and advertise around."

At the end of the presentation, he even got in a swipe at one of his agency rivals: "It's certainly not version 2.0 of Charlotte Beers, who tried to repackage Uncle Sam the same way she did Uncle Ben's. Programs about happy Muslims assimilated into America just won't cut it." (Beers was a chairman at JWT and a former undersecretary for public diplomacy and public affairs. The latter position is now held by Karen Hughes.)

A number of marketing executives have addressed the U.S.' sagging image abroad. Keith Reinhardt, chairman of DDB Worldwide, runs a group called Business for Diplomatic Action, which seeks to recruit U.S. business leaders in the task and has so far drawn support from McDonald's and Exxon. Reinhardt, acting as president of the group, also testified before a U.S. House subcommittee on national security in August 2004. The gist of his testimony was that the U.S. was not a credible messenger to the world. Cari Eggspuehler, executive director for the group, said much of Reinhardt's phrasing was echoed in Hughes' testimony before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in July. "It was freaky," said Eggspuehler, who added that other pols have also poached the group's language.

A former assistant to Beers, Eggspuehler said the federal government previously had a low opinion about communication techniques, but over the last few months, "They've started to listen and pay attention. That's a huge shift."

Others saw the Roberts speech as noteworthy, too. "It's unusual," said Earl Tomlinson, a 25-year CIA veteran who has served clandestinely in Pakistan and Afghanistan and is now president of TSR Global Inc., an investigative security firm in Dallas. "Normally . . . you'd find someone who's a cultural awareness specialist within the State Department" to give such a briefing.

Tom Messner, a founder of New York-based agency Messner Vetere Berger McNamee Schmetterer/Euro RSCG, who has experience with political campaigns, said it's common for the military to talk to agencies when it comes to recruiting. But for selling America to those who hate it? "I've not heard of it."

He said he has never been asked to pitch marketing ideas to psy-ops types: "I would not know how to talk to a fanatic who wants to commit suicide. I wouldn't know to convince him of the error of his thinking."

The Pentagon has lately begun to use marketing as a weapon. The Lincoln Group, Washington, this summer won part of a $300 million contract to improve pubic opinion abroad and to assist coalition forces with their Iraqi communications.

"If you want to influence someone, you have to touch their emotions," Col. James Treadwell of the Joint Psychological Operations Support Element told the Washington Post in June.

That echoes almost directly Roberts' speech, in which he said: "Using emotion instead of reason is a big, transformational idea . . . the most powerful relationships run on deep emotional connections." Treadwell could not be reached for comment at press time.

This isn't Saatchi's first foray into global politics, either. It was Charles and Maurice Saatchi who remade Margaret Thatcher's image in the 1970s—softening her hair and voice—making her electable as Britain's first female prime minister.

And it was in 1999 that Roberts triggered a political scandal in his home country of New Zealand when he wined and dined premier Jenny Shipley. Her government later gave Saatchi a $26 million tourism ad contract while other government budgets were being cut. One newspaper called it the "Slippery Slope of Sleaze."

Oops-
sorry for the length of that last post but I felt it was important--Sally, if you need to delete it please do.
G

Pallas

A genuine thank you for the refreshingly insightful perspective on Clinton's recent activities. I was one of those who was so pissed off at him lately that I went around muttering that he obviously had received bits and pieces of Cheney's heart in his big operation.

You make the really good point that sometimes you really do have to charm/disarm your adversaries/enemies to catch them off guard after you raised their comfort level to the point of not expecting/anticipating an attack from you.

Also, you are oh so right about ultra rich people; they come in many shades and flavors just like us regular folks.

I mean how could you begin to compare people such as George Soros, Ted Turner, Barbara Streisand, Rob Reiner, or even Warren Buffet to people like Dennis Kozlowski, Ken Lay, Richard Scaife, Bernie Ebbers, or even a quintessential American iconic greedhead like Jack Welsh?!

JM wrote: "Please beware of Clinton. He's taking immediate full advantage of the confusion. He's heading us off at the pass just when the people are discovering their own power. He wants back in the WH. He is part of how we got here. He will try to mollify and subvert our strength. Make us lean on him. The price is way, way, way too high.
We are always in danger and must remain alert. We don't need anyone's help at the moment. Thank you very much."
The truest words you've ever posted, JM. But lets extend our refusal of 'help' from: Kerry, Hilary, Biden, Dean(I never thought I'd say that)et.al. The Democratic 'party' as well as the Repugs have partied until most of the country is worn out and little is left in the dance hall except the dregs of prosperity, patriotic streamers and the discordant drum beat of war. We need a 'movement' for change not another 'party'.

What we see as a "problem" with Bill Clinton is his Libra ascendant plus Mars, Neptune, Venus, Chiron and Jupiter all in Libra. He truly sees both sides of an issue, that is why he takes up one side and then the other. He's a mediator, it's his natural state and he will belong to any group that he views as trying to bring things into a balance, or who is walking down the middle, because that's where someone with this much Libra walks, down the middle and he will always go back and forth between people trying to bring a consensus of issues. He also has impossibly high ideals as everyone has with Neptune contacts to personal planets. He really doesn't see himself or his impact clearly (Neptune on his Ascendant) So he can say one thing and then another trying to bring concensus. Libra energy doesn't like to get too far to the left or right of any issue. So, we may not like that in an individual, so don't vote for him every for anything, but it doesn't make him in the neo-con pocket (although he would try to "understand" their perspective.) I do know that with Mars conjunct Neptune and Scorpio ruling his 2nd house, money doesn't motivate him. Cancer at his midheaven and his Moon in Taurus he is interested in helping people and working with people and his Sun in Leo gives him the need to be the benevolent King and he might not be able to see malicious intent on the part of others.

Thank you for that, Sally.....and with his progressed ascendant and sun in Scorpio, how could he NOT be secretive about what he does? I think that is really an excellent explanation of his character. But he is anything but wishy washy, but one can almost understand why he appears "slick"...we always expect people to be on one side or another. He would never have become a necroporn person for any reason. Doesn't mean he won't try to see how they operate. This is a man with a great IQ....and unlike many with a good intellect, he has remained curious. Yes....that is quite a huge amount of planets in his first house, isn't it? Never have seen anything like it before.

RE Roberts of Saatchi and Saatchi rebranding the war....

Hal Riney (Hal Riney & Partners, SF, more famous for Bartles & James commercials than politics) branded and produced Reagan's 'morning in America' campaign.

It all is about selling something to someone else. Remember the Goldwater nuclear bomb and girl plucking petals from a daisy? Guerilla tactics, and they work.

jm, I have mercury, uranus, sun and saturn in the 8th....some of it in Taurus.....I am not trying to 'take a power grab'.....but I am speaking up....

Pallas, just read what you wrote about Clinton's activities....right on....and Betsey, for your perspective on Gore. There was so much evil splashing about like acid in 2000....no one who ever saw the look on Al Gore's face when he conceded could think that he did it just to be a gentleman. And I would bet that what happened with 2004 had some deep explanations also. What kind of import does this happen for the future if these necroporns (to borrow JoannaOregon's phrase) continue in power? After all, assassination is encouraged by our government to get people who don't do what they are told to do to do it.....

Speaking of assassinations, notice how many leaders in Iraq have been assassinated? In reading the article in The Sun Magazine (the confessions of an economic hit man), it is obvious that assassination has been used....by the CIA. Clinton put a HALT to it....and really pissed off the Tom Clancy crowd. One of the first things reversed by the bushcons was removing that anti assassination order ( 9/11 and the Homeland Security took care of it).

Palla1800 - thank you for your refreshing comments! And Sally too, for the Clinton description. I have never seen his chart!

400,000 NATO ration packs for Katrina survivors 'to be burned'

RAW STORY

HUNDREDS of tons of British food aid shipped to America for starving Hurricane Katrina survivors is to be burned, Britain's Daily Mirror reported Monday.

The food, which cost British taxpayers millions, is sitting idle in a huge warehouse after the Food and Drug Agency recalled it when it had already left to be distributed. Scores of trucks headed back to a warehouse in Little Rock, Arkansas, to dump it at an FDA incineration plant.

The Ministry of Defence in London said last night that 400,000 operational ration packs had been shipped to the US.

But officials blamed the US Department of Agriculture, which impounded the shipment under regulations relating to the import and export of meat.

One British aid worker, who would not be named, said: "This is the most appalling act of sickening senselessness while people starve.

"The FDA has recalled aid from Britain because it has been condemned as unfit for human consumption, despite the fact that these are Nato approved rations of exactly the same type fed to British soldiers in Iraq.

"Under NATO, American soldiers are also entitled to eat such rations, yet the starving of the American South will see them go up in smoke because of FDA red tape madness."

The worker added: "There will be a cloud of smoke above Little Rock soon - of burned food, of anger and of shame that the world's richest nation couldn't organise a p**s up in a brewery and lets Americans starve while they arrogantly observe petty regulations.
----------
Besides this fiasco is the fact that Red Cross workers are so disgusted with the organization that they are saying they will never put on a Red Cross vest again....

Farrout...thanks for the link to Perkins. There is a lot to read and will have to go over it when I have more time.
The article says:
"We made a deal in the 70's with S.Arabia to "westernize" their country if they invested their money here (US) and guaranteed us a fair price for oil."
Seems to me the original premise of the offer was deceptive since the oil wells are beginning or are dried up and they would have been well aware of that.
What happens then....In the long run it hurts everyone.
Couple weeks ago while listening to Fresh Air... Terry Gross interviewed a journalist who had gone to SA to interview those in charge of the fields to write specifically about the current and near future oil supplies that exist in the ground/wells. He had a passport cleared, arrangements made for interiews, the whole works, and when he got there no one would talk to him. They wouldn't give him any info. on current state or near term projections. He was dumfounded! to say the least.

This would have made some very interesting reading, if we could but just know. But think of the turmoil it would cause in the world markets if the truth be know. Which is the conclusion he came to.
You can probably find it in "Fresh Air" archives -if you want to know more.

Returning to a previous thread, about what music we hear, this is from http://www.pandagon.net/
Heavy metal is a form of music defined by loud guitars (generally electronic), heavy, driving percussion, and loud vocals generally focused on violent imagery. It is also a metal of relatively high density, although that definition doesn't apply in this case.

And if you think the latter definition does apply in this case, you're a pathetic simpleton. There, now isn't that better than actually making an argument for something?

Well all of this proves my point about Clinton. he is motivated by an insatiable lust for attention.(That's the problem with his 8th Taurus Moon, judi--he doesn't handle his desires well). He grabs the spotlight whenever he can. Now is not the time. We are in crisis. The discussion since he SPOKE have been all about him. This is not good right now when we have immediate problems to address. You can't golf and joke with the enemy of the people one day and then pretend to be against him the next. Of course, it's the Libra. But Jupiter will be leaving Libra momentarily and the North Node in Aries and the fight ahead will be less impeded. The UN and the future of poverty in the world all have to be dealt with, but right now we are under seige and all of our strength should be directed toward getting out of this trap. Especially since no one in power seems able to do this for us.

Anyone speaking up against this administration is great as long as they realize that we are the most important actors now. Our shining moment is here and I want us to take full advantage of this chance.

Saturn in Leo is hovering around the USA NN now calling all of this to our attention. Who are the heroes? Leos come out and so does our innate ability to lead ourselves. Saturn wants so much for us not to be afraid of our own power.

Something unusual is happening in the guts of this country, and I will post something amazing shortly. Gotta go find it and I'll be back.

This is what we're up against.

The cons in their last minute desperation are trying to prevent the Dems from taking over in '06. They are trying to pass the ID legislation to disenfranchise about 10% of the Democratic voting population. If this does pass we can beat it by grass roots efforts to get these folks to the polls. There is so much work to do and we have to get down to these brass tacks. If the Democratic rising wave is big enough, I think it can override the election tampering. Or maybe the fix is already in for the Dems.

Our USA Moon in Aquarius with the SN there would love to intellectualize about politics and the world, to help others, but there is time for that a little later. The people here, the voting challenge, and the next election are our concerns now. No matter what happens, this deliberate cutting off at the knees of Democratic poor, black, elderly, infirm, etc. cannot be tolerated.

Still have to go get the promised post.

A hard core Democratic blog I frequent has just been joined by a conservative Republican from Louisiana.
This is his response to Kerry's speech at Brown University:

>>Pamela, where do I begin? I am humbled by the words spoken by the man I told you in recent days, that I like more each day. It goes beyond that now, I must admit to the fact now, that I really have come to respect this man. His words ring loud, and I have heard him. I hope that others will hear him. There are so many things that I want to tell you, but I will email you and cover most of it.

I just had a talk with another Republican buddy that I have known for years, and after a heart to heart talk, he broke down and he admitted that we have messed up, and we have to go in a diff. direction. He said that we have to look for someone that is a real leader, and not make this mistake again. He’s not sold on Kerry or the Dem. party, but I don’t see him backing the GOP in the future elections. He is hurt, and might not trust anyone soon.

These recent days have been real emotional for people like us down here, and I can only hope that we can open dialog, during the future days, with my people down here. Emotions that I had, reading Mr. Kerry’s comments, have come to Re-Enforce what I have said and done lately.

We talked about New Orleans, and how he had to send his daughter to a school in another state, as we wait for things to get back to normal. Meanwhile, he will split his time between his home to do repairs, his family in another state, and my place, as his temp. home. And as I write this, we have another storm that may come here. He just left to go back out in the Gulf of Mexico to do his job.

John Kerry, is a Beacon of hope and a Light House, for those of us lost at sea!! The Story gets so much deeper down here, and I now know that we have hope. I don’t know if I can describe what happened tonight, but two people had to come and understand, that we need change, and not lies. I will never be the same after this. We have our pact to take care of our families, and we do not expect the Federal Gov. to help. I have come to find out that the Criminal Vampires in the White House, will have to starve. if they expect us to bow down to them.<<

Even though there is maybe too much faith being placed in Kerry, it indicates the fear of their own party bosses. This could be a trend. The South is really shaken up.
It is much more important than removing the cons. It's people coming together to talk about what to do with our country.
I think it is imperative that we refrain from publically hating those fellow Americans who voted for Bush, and stop calling them stupid. They are reading the blogs and searching. If we understand that salvaging our dignity from the wreckage trumps our fear and hatred, we can pull out of this. And that all of us have been manipulated and misled by politicians. Now we are all the wiser.

jm, i really agree with what you said in the last paragraph.

--- will check back later with y'all. I have to read fast to keep up with all of these wonderful articles and posts.

Re: Sally's explanation of Clinton and jm's response:

Sally, that was a wonderful discussion, and it feels very right. Ty

jm: Sometimes I think we insist on a clarity and a primary-coloured (no pun intended) demeanor of our politicians. And maybe that gets us into trouble. Only idealogues can really come off so monochromatically. I have a feeling that all the great leaders are more complex. Vide: Sun Tzu, Caesar, Genghis Khan, Lewellyn Fahr, and on and on and on. I think Clinton's complexity, and his depth of emotional experience was and hopefully, will continue to be, a plus for the human race

Teg, with all respect, I'm having a problem with your choice of leaders. Uhhh, Caesar? Genghis Khan? Sun Tzu? What about Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln and FDR? What about Chief Joseph, Tenzin Gyatso and Bolivar? I'm much more comfortable with leaders who lead for the people than leaders who lead for their "place in history".

All-
Don't mean to change the conversation here, but deos anyone have a take on this potential bird flu epidemic? What planet or house would this fall under and could it be charted(its potential effects on the US)?

Oops, that should have been does, not deos---I'm an excellent speller but a poor typist....

The Flu Pandemic to hit the world in 1918 began in January of 1918 with a few cases and quickly spread throughout the world. Saturn had just passed over the US North Node (it's position now) It's the 6th house that rules illness and the 6th house in the US Chart is ruled by Taurus at 19 degrees Taurus, with Venus being its ruler. While one cannot predict the severity, the signs are there for a serious flu season. Transiting South Node just passed over the US Natal Saturn, and transiting Saturn is passing back and forth over the US Natal North Node. Plus, transiting Venus when Hurricane Katrina hit was conjunct transiting the T South Node. In vedic astrology Venus on the South Node is an indication of disease coming from the Hurricane. Here is an article about the possibility of diverting a serious pandemic if we act now and over the next 4 to 6 months.

Neptune, another indicator of disease, is in a square to the US 6th House Cusp. As I said, there are signs pointing to a serious flu season in the US and probably world wide.

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/09/20/MTFH19822_2005-09-20_05-56-51_SCH016489.html

RE Roberts of Saatchi and Saatchi rebranding the war....

Branding is great, but if your product doesn't work as advertised and your customer is service is poor then no clever catch-phrase is going to fix that. In fact great advertising can kill a poor product.

Besides if we've learned anything it's that having an MBA is great for running a business - but affairs of state are different. And that lesson goes back to Robert McNamara and Vietnam.

I think it means the War on Terror is over.

judi g:
"reject ideological solutions that are not fact-based"
Sally, isn't that a classic reflection of the mutual reception of Uranus/Pisces Neptune/Aquarius?
And I don't clearly understand why but the turbulent evolution, about-to-come revolution in tv, movies, internet media - news-gathering primarily - but more than that, seems to me to reflect this also.

It could be a reflection of that bbuster, however that mutual reception between uranus/neptune has been there for several months and lasts for a few more years, since it a generational aspect, if a pandemic fell into those hands alone we would be sick and dying for several years. The pandemic of 1918, most affected ages 18 to 39, indicating an immunity in the older population, but don't know what it indicates for the babies and children who survived. Any outer planet on the north node or south node of a nation (or person, natal or by transit) usually has some kind of dramatic consequences. Transiting Saturn on the US NN, and transiting SN on natal Saturn would be a "finger" pointing back toward a situation in the past, yes Saturn has been conj. the US NN a few times since 1918, so has Neptune, Pluto and Uranus, it's the combination of Saturn and the Nodes coming together at the same time, with Venus (the timing planet) right there.

It is always a combination of planets coming together in a synchronistic pattern that creates or points to disturbances and not just in the natal chart, one needs to look for confirmation in the progressed and solar arc and Solar Return. The Solar return for the US in, there are confirming aspects in all of these equations. One big one in the Solar Return is Venus on the US NN and Chiron coming to a conj. to the US SN, and SR Mars conj. t-NN. The planets are lining up for 2006 to be a memorable and life altering shift in the world.

I told someone the other day that while it looks as if "the people" around the world are being squeezed and taking a big hit, I am not sure that what we are actually looking at is the implosion of the world's elite, but they don't see it coming.

This apparently not an urban legend. This came from within the court house in the State in which I lilve.

~DARE program have issued this warning~

Police officers working with the DARE program have issued this warning: If you are driving after dark and see an on-coming car with no headlights on, DO NOT FLASH YOUR LIGHTS AT THEM! This is a common Bloods gang member "initiation game" that goes like this:

The new gang member under initiation drives along with no headlights, and the first car to flash their headlights at him is now his "target". He is
now required to turn around and chase that car, then shoot and kill every
individual in the vehicle in order to complete his initiation requirements.

Police Depts. across the nation are being warned that September 23rd and 24th is the "blood" initiation weekend. Their intent is to have all the new bloods nationwide drive around on Friday and Saturday nights with their headlights off. In order to be accepted into the gang, they have to shoot and kill all individuals in the first auto that does a courtesy flash to warn them that their lights are off. Make sure you share this information with all the drivers in your family!

Please Forward this message to all your friends and family members to inform them about this initiation ritual. You can save someone's life if you heed to this warning.

OOPS!

http://www.snopes.com/horrors/madmen/lightout.asp

Jeez I'm sorry. I guess court houses aren't immune.

Sally
As doctor of homeopathy, I've been very closely monitoring the symptom pictures of the influenza seasons these past few years anticipating a big epidemic if not a pandmemic. There has been a lot of coverage for two years on bird flu though it has not yet passed human -human. Still i'm sort of suspicious. The source of SARS is mighty suspicious. We humans are capable of pretty dispicable acts. I am remembering how a US lab "accidently" shipped though US mail highly virulent influenza stain earlier this year. I have not heard that all those packages have been recovered. Have you?

Here's some thoughts for flu watchers. In America our first flu cases now appear to be experienced in the desert areas around Las Vegas. This is because our influenzas travel from asia and they now come on planes, via asian gamblers, arriving a lot faster than old migration routes. The first cases are now usually reported in October.

My community is among the first affected. Last year we experienced a unique influenza (the rest of the country didn't report) which followed a huge dove die-off. The reason for the die off wasn't well explained. My naturalist friend says they felt it was a strep infection but then said it was viral...
At any rate the symtoms we suffered were type A flu they came on like a freight train and recovery was prolonged. Many here suffered with pneumonia. In skilled nursing, espeically the alzheimers facility elders would die within hours of first symptom.

Those of us who suffered said it was the worst we had been sick since [..] and then each would name whatever was the worst childhood illness they had...and curiously it seemed to stir up the old miasm of that illness. Contrary to the 18-34 year old susceptibility during 1918 this age group was not affected. (kinda reverse of an adenovirus also??)

Frankly i'm not looking forward to this flu season at all and have stocked up my little homeopahtic pharmacy including mother tincture echinacea.
i'.m hoping for the best
tseka

Tseka, they have been warning of this for two years and I've long been suspicious of the "missing" viral packages, plus some little reported stolen ones. Like you, I do suggest people stock up on Homeopathic anti-viral meds. There was a story in the Guardian a couple of weeks ago that said England only had enough anti-viral or antidotes to this flu to cover doctors, nurses and the "elites" of the country and the US was not prepared at all. Once this flu hits, just as Katrina showed the crumbling structure in FEMA, we will see the crumbling structure in our Health and Human Services.

Perhaps you could give a suggested list of anti-viral homeopathic kits to buy.

Did you all know that One Billion dollars has gone missing in Iraq?

Mr. Cockburn was interviewed about his story published in the Independent on Monday by "The World's Aron Shackter last night.

A warrant for the arrest of former Iraqi Defense Minister will be issued....which is listed a day later as a follow up article.

check the "Day in the News" on the right for Monday on missing billion article.

http://news.independent.co.uk

Sally,
Thanks for offering space to post a suggested list of homeopathic remedies. I have to consider this a bit as it may go against standards of practice for me to give any specific recommendations. I will think about it.
I can say this during an epidemic we (homeopaths) treat the epidemic...that is contrary to what is usual, wherein the individual who has symtoms is treated case by case, in epidemics one rememdy usually stands out...i will certainly report what i may discover.
I'm sure we will all be in it together.

Has anyone done a chart on Rita and it's effects on the Texas coast? It's up to 165mph and I'm probably going to bail out and head to Dallas if it comes in anywhere around me. I'm 45 miles from the shore. It does not flood in my area, but I'm really getting scared all of a sudden. Yesterday concerned, today very antsy.

hmmm that should be symptoms...
As you say we will discover how our dept of health has decayed and we will also see the cost of privatizing our public hospitals.

It's a good time to consider what is really important in a community. Did anyone have grange halls growing up?
In the Northwest we just did if something needed doing...the dock at the marina, the well, the stairs to the beach anything that required some manpower we all just rolled up our sleeves and did it. Barn raisings.

Where i currently live it is typical shift of public dollars to individual pockets for usually unnecessary projects. Boondoggles.

i am on the one hand hoping the shift i've sensed since 11 august 1999 and which now feels to be speeding up will open all the doors and on the other hand i'm hoping we are prepared to respond -not react.

Maine just installed an emergency number to call statewide for quick Dept of Human Services services. They already have 800 numbers to the biggest communities, and several specific emergency numbers, like domestic violence! ( the only 800 #'s in the state! To call the Gov. you have to pay!)
It would have been better to use that money to beef up the heat assistance for this season as they are going to fall short there!
What kind of luck do these people have to get another cat 5 hurricain so they can pretend to handle this one efficiently!
The acting FEMA head made a freudian slip and said they were in touch with the DOD, before he backed out of that one ! (TOO LATE)
PQ

Paper: U.S to Burn 400,000 Rations of Food For Hurricane Survivors
The Mirror newspaper of Britain is reporting that the U.S. government plans to incinerate 400,000 rations of food shipped from Britain to feed starving Hurricane Katrina survivors. According to the paper, the Food and Drug Agency has determined that the NATO ration packs are unfit for human consumption even though they are eaten by British troops in Iraq. Thousands of gallons of pear juice donated by Israeli relief agencies have already been destroyed. Food from Spain and Italy has also been judged unfit for human consumption.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/09/21/1423215

Now that's DISGUSTING!
PQ

Got this off of a paranoid friends website. He is so serious, what do you folks think? Can American scientists manipulate the weather for evil purposes!

The first interview is with meteorologist and TV weatherman Scott Stevens and physicist Richard C. Hoagland, who recognized in Katrina and other storms signs of malevolent steering.
http://www.lillipierce.com/karl/weather/1_weather.mp3
http://www.lillipierce.com/karl/weather/2_weather.mp3

Nanotechnologist Charles Ostman presents further evidence to support this theory:

http://www.lillipierce.com/karl/ostman/1_ostman.mp3

An earlier interview with Scott Stevens in which he presents in greater depth his evidence that that our weather is being manipulated.

http://www.lillipierce.com/karl/1_stevens.mp3
http://www.lillipierce.com/karl/2_stevens.mp3
http://www.lillipierce.com/karl/3_stevens.mp3

Here's a fine interview with Dr. Nick begich, an expert on, among other things, mind-control, HAARP, and cell-phone radiation. Begich's father, a congressman from Alaska, was killed in a mysterious plane crash during the 1970s.

http://www.lillipierce.com/karl/begich/1_begich.mp3
http://www.lillipierce.com/karl/begich/2_begich.mp3
http://www.lillipierce.com/karl/begich/3_begich.mp3

A classic interview by Art Bell of two scientists from Project Haarp. They were cleared by a congressional panel to appear on the show, and while their remarks are extremely restricted, one can read between the lines, and even perhaps draw the conclusion that the U.S. Government may actually have beneficial reasons for practicing control of the weather.

http://www.lillipierce.com/karl/haarp/1_haarp.mp3
http://www.lillipierce.com/karl/haarp/2_haarp.mp3
http://www.lillipierce.com/karl/haarp/3_haarp.mp3

Yes, Jill G. I believe they can and do.

Patricia

Sally, Tseka....my mother is a survivior of the Swine Flu epidemic...she was born May 16, 1909, and she said she was 10 when she had it. Her mother had it, her baby brother I'm not sure of, he was born on the day that WWI ended, 11-18-1918, and her sister was born in 1916. She always told me she was unconscious for a week and bleeding from the nose into a bucket next to the bed. Her father took care of all of them and then he got sick. They all survivied. Now the only one alive is my mother, who is 96. She is a horse! As for me, I am highly suseptible to the flu epidemics and fear them. (Type O blood is highly suseptible to flu). I get them all. I got the horrible one last fall, Tseka, which you described....worst thing I've ever experienced and nothing like anything I remember, and it took months to get over.

I am making my little homeopathic kit up also....

Jill G., I commented on the same in the last thread. No, it's not crazy.

tseka, any help/ advice freely given will be appreciated by all on here.

here is Hoagland's blog:http://www.enterprisemission.com/weblog/weblog.htm

Louise Hay: influenza is response to mass negativity and beliefs. fear.

This one is really interesting from Alice Steadman:

>>After wars it seems the letdown of fighting a "neighboring" nation creates a relaxing into a mass "hate" for that neighbor who has caused such waste of men and money, and the coming back of the boys and refitting them into the neighborhoods is very difficult. The results are epidemics, and even the name like "Asian flu", shows where the hate is directed. We think the boys bring back the germs but it is the sight of the boys, or the fact that some didn't return that brings back the hate."

The 1918 flu corresponds to war. I wonder if the others do?

It would seem so....the primary humans who DIED from this were males in their 20's.

However, the swine flu originated in China, as they all seem to have done (from the fact that pigs LIVED with their owners in the same house, along with the ducks and chickens, etc). It then spread around the world as they all do....my mother is from Cape Breton Island, Nova Scotia....nowhere near any fighting, nor was her family involved in it; however, boys came home from the Canadian Army and probably carried it home. It killed 250 million people around the world. Although it wasn't actually a world war at all. And nothing like it happened after WWII. Instead....we had plutonian bombs to do the dirty work. The next big flu epidemiic I can remember is 1957....which I also got.

If people are suseptible, as I am, and they find that it is a signature of O blood types, (and O is the most common blood type) it stands to reason that these viruses know their audience! The Asian flu of 1957 didn't fit any current war (and all we had in 1918 was the Sino Russian war) - it is Asian because that is where the germs mutate thru close association between humans and animals.

jm there are several interesting books correlating disease with war and migration.

One of my favorites on this subject which is a good read (not just dry statistics) is Plagues and Peoples by William H. McNeill

an eventful few days I'd say....... jet blue emergency landing, tornado bearing down on minneapolis, two hurricanes..... wonder what's next? I'm hoping this settles the stormy vibes 'cause I've got a daughter taking off for Paris from Chicago on Sat. Ya'll think good thoughts for her, will ya please? Thank you.

That sounds fascinating, tseka. Right up my street. Thanks.

Done, Peg.

We seem to have some success with this.

http://www.fluwikie.com/index.php?n=Main.PFAW

Continuing the public health experiment, Flu Wiki in association with the blogosphere will use October 3–9 as Pandemic Flu Awareness Week.
~obviously this is a growing concern.

Excellent tseka. Thank you.

And if Rita hits the oil refinaries in Texas, we can truly say the old gods are indeed active. Blood for blood, rape for rape, oil for oil. The Eumenydies (sp?) are flying again.

If I were the rest of the world, the part that is really trying to conserve on energy and trying to prevent global warming, I would sue the USA for blowing bad air into the atmosphere. Like smokers suing restaurants and public bldgs...

It seems the gods will get there before the rest of the world. We will have to create alternative forms of energy or we will die trying to pay for the old or we will just die anyway breathing bad air.

Forgive me, I'm a little over the top these days. Greek drama suits my black and white thinking right now. Transiting Saturn return just finished, now about to hit the natal Moon/Pluto conjunction and going towards opposing the Sun coming up - just 2 and 1/2 years of this stuff-back and forth, back and forth. Transiting Neptune conjunct the Sun, back and forth, back and forth. Uranus 150 degrees from my natal Neptune, back and forth, back and forth. An eclipse coming up right on the natal Neptune. Ye gads!

Does anybody else think time accelerates with age?
And, these days, I'm forgetting that my glasses are on my head!

Morgana, Nancy, Sally thank you all for your superb articles and astrology.

Don't know about time accelerating with age, Beasley, but I can tell you that gravity sure gets stronger. Remember how you could just hop up off the ground or floor? Yeah, well, it's a nice memory all right. Not possible any more.

Beasley and shylurker,

I do think time accelerates with age. But I've often wondered if it slows down again toward the end. I should ask my 95 year old Aunt Ida, but she's so stubborn, she might not want to talk to me. And I'm so stubborn I refuse to give in to the gravitational pull. I'm fighting back with personal push. Up and at'em.

I always turn to the gods for the parallel story.
Pluto guards all the wealth of the world and everyone has to pay the boatman to gain access. If riches are stolen they will eventually be retrieved. I think these thieves might be losing their shirts in Iraq, and now they are trying to steal a city from us. I have doubts about their success.
I've been wondering if the furies being unleashed by the hurricanes will force the rollback of the tax cuts, thereby returning to the people some of the stolen money from the treasury.

I think this Pluto/Jupiter out of bounds lawless mad free for all will change dramatically with Pluto in Capricorn when restraint, judgement, and pulling into the bone will come in. Stripping the excess. Maybe restitution and retribution will come with the time. And dealing with the energy reality as you suggest, Beasley. Anything is possible.

Maybe the earth is trying to tell us something. That if we continue to consume the oil, we will face the winds that make such consumption hurt what we seem to only care about nowadays. She's smart enough to know how to make us pay attention.

Well , Beasley & Shylurker....I have Saturn by transit starting to aspect my natal Moon at 13 Leo....it having just passed over natal Pluto at 5 Leo. Time has slowed down for me, which has been a great relief. It WAS just kicking along like wild fire.....but I have sensed that all my life, that time goes very slowly or really too fast. Back and forth, back and forth...till we get it right?

I have had a strong sense for the last few days (maybe a week) that a change is coming, a big one....but it isn't bad. Anyone else feeling that? It may just be personal, so I am checking to see....I had a friend say he felt the 'wheels were finally coming off' this administration.

I have Neptune at 29 Virgo retrograde...cusp of 12th....Libra being all the twelth house, so this month will be hard for me to get a grip on....so I am checking in to see if anyone else feels this energy.

Vis, someone a while back mentioned Edgar Casey 's predictions.....which I think fit the current picture of the last 20 years also!

http://www.crystalinks.com/edgar_cayce.html

In actuallity, it appears that his readings for what happens with people have been fairly accurate, but not so much about the rising and falling of land masses. But one can't help but notice that the Bush adminsitration falls into this:

Cayce prophesied that the Earth's axis would be shifted by the year 2001, bringing on reversals in climate, "so that where there has been a frigid or semi-tropical climate, there will be a more tropical one, and moss and fern will grow." By this time, he indicated, a new cycle would begin.

I mean, the first thing they did was reverse the environmental laws and reject global warming & Kyoto scenarios....metaphorically tipping the world on it's axis. And then, of course, 12/26/04 came along and did a little shifting.

The Hindu predictions of the time of greed:

Hindu Prophecies
From the Hindu Puranas:

Apocalypse for the Hindu is the natural ending of the world in the fourth age, the Kali Age.

It is one of a series of apocalypses, each of which marks the end of one cycle and the beginning of another creation. The central figure in the story is Vishnu, the preserver God, into whose self the world is absorbed before being born again.

Vishnu has already saved humanity on a number of occasions, symbolically appearing as a savior in many different forms. It is said that He will appear again soon, as Kalki, a white horse, destined to destroy the present world and to take humanity to a different, higher plane.

All kings occupying the earth in the Kali Age will be wanting in tranquillity, strong in anger, taking pleasure at all times in lying and dishonesty, inflicting death on women, children, and cows, prone to take the paltry possessions of others, with character that is mostly vial, rising to power and soon falling.

They will be short-lived, ambitious, of little virtue, and greedy. People will follow the customs of others and be adulterated with them; peculiar, undisciplined barbarians will be vigorously supported by rulers. Because they go on living with perversion, they will be ruined.

Dharma becomes very weak in the Kali Age. People commit sin in mind, speech, and actions.

Quarrels, plague, fatal diseases, famines, drought, and calamities appear. Testimonies and proofs have no certainty. There is no criterion left when the Kali Age settles down.

People become poorer in vigor and luster.

They are wicked, full of anger, sinful, false, and avaricious.

Bad ambitions, bad education, bad dealings, and bad earnings excite fear.

The whole batch becomes greedy and untruthful.

Many sudras will become kings, and many heretics will be seen.

There will arise various sects; sannyasins wearing clothes colored red.

Many profess to have supreme knowledge because, thereby, they will easily earn their livelihood.

In the Kali Age, there will be many false religionists.

India will become desolate by repeated calamities, short lives, and various diseases.

Everyone will be miserable owing to the dominance of vice and Tamoguna.

People will freely commit abortion.

Earth will be valued only for her mineral treasures.

Money alone will confer nobility.

Power will be the sole definition of virtue.

Pleasure will be the only reason for marriage.

Lust will be the only reason for womanhood.

Falsehood will win out in disputes.

Being dry of water will be the only definition of land.

Praise worthiness will be measured by accumulated wealth. I

Propriety will be considered good conduct, and only feebleness will be the reason for unemployment.

Boldness and arrogance will be equivalent to scholarship.

Only those without wealth will show honesty.

Just a bath will amount to purification, and charity will be the only virtue.

Abduction will be marriage.

Simply to be well dressed will signify propriety.

Any hard-to-reach water will be deemed a pilgrimage site.

The pretense of greatness will be the proof of it, and powerful men with many severe faults will rule over all the classes on earth.

Oppressed by their excessively greedy rulers, people will hide in valleys between mountains, where they will gather honey, vegetables, roots, fruits, birds, flowers and so forth.

Suffering from cold, wind, heat and rain, they will put on clothes made of tree bark and leaves.

And no one will live as long as twenty-three years.

Thus in the Kali Age humankind will be utterly destroyed.

Pallas, well....that is pretty right on! Not looking forward to the wearing of bark clothes, though....

At least we have lived past 23, most of us....which means we are all a bit overdue!

Very instructive, though....

Gee! That's real cheery and upbeat!
While we're going down here's a neat chart so we can keep track of the perps.!

http://rightweb.irc-online.org/charts/fpteam.php

I broke down & called the WH yesterday, to suggest that the pRes stay in DC and contribute the money spent on jetfuel to the reconstruction fund in NO. Figure what have I GOT TO LOSE, If they send me to Gitmop as a turras, at least I won't have to worry about heating my house this winter,
I also suggested that he stop wearing that "blue collar shirt" with the sleeves rolled up, we wern't buying into the image!
Maybe I'll syphon off some more mars/pluto feelings today by calling into Rush Limbaugh this afternoon! Beasley you might want to try that as well!
Where's Jo?
PQ

For What its Worth: One of DU's lead stories quotes National Enquirer report that Bush is "off the wagon." Much discussion on DU as to whether NE is credible. Interestingly enuf - - a lot on plus side. Would post link but dont know how to. . . sigh

Same discussion at Salon Table Talk White House....but no one is sure if it is a 'leak' or if it is 'real'....given the fact that Enquirer has a reputation for both early info and aliens from space landing. (a journalist/reporter/novelist writer friend from high school wrote a lot of the space alien stuff for NE back in the late 60's)

You AWers crack me up! Wish i could find the evidenciary science to support the fact that time actually IS speeding up, Beasley. Read something awhile ago about this (it may have been posted here?).

Judy G, just went through that transitting Saturn conjunct Moon. What i noticed was, that i developed a greater emotional depth by the end of the process. At first i was challenged by the overwhelming nature of my own emotions/childhood messages. But, it was actually quite liberating!

I too have had some intense sensations of late. What these sensations remind me of was expressed in the early Star Wars movie. There's an incredible amount of grief and anxiety in the astral realm. If i allow myself to "be" in it, i too am consumed with that grief.

The Cayce readings have not been date accurate. HOWEVER, they ARE in the sense that his readings support the current science re: stronger storms through global warming, weakness in the San Andreas fault, as well as the New Madrid fault. The latter could very well cause the Great Lakes to dump into the Mississippi.

Given the Mayan and Hindu (thanks Pallas!)prognostications, Cayce's readings, history itself, and our current state of debauchery, i would think that a change/correction is necessary if we are to survive as a species. In fact, many will not.

karen

NE article states that he started drinking because of the pain he felt when he saw the levees break in NO . . . that happened on Monday - - i dont think he even figured out anything was going on in NO until much later in the week. If he really is drinking, i'll bet it didnt just start. He's probably been drinking for quite some time and its just getting worse and harder to keep it quiet. The Katrina made me do it is a convenient, sympathy-getting cover

jr,farrout, glad you have weighed in on this....and the astral realm is one we should all stay away from! It does cause so much pain.

Yesterday in the afternoon I had this real direct message to get home and meditate, which I hardly ever do now. I went home, sat with some camomile tea and did some meditating, and felt better. About 6 pm my daughter called and said, there is a Jet Blue plane in trouble, turn on the news. Strangely enough, it never occurred to me until this morning that I had been asked to meditate exactly at the time the plane took off from Burbank. I knew it would be fine when I saw it, no disaster; my daughter was, on the other hand, completely in the cabin and feeling the fear of the passengers. This is where 'witnessing' helps....non emotional identification when ever possible. It was a really great piece of flying that pilot did. My daughter said 'must have been all the good thoughts being sent their way'.

Jill G. -- Here you go:

http://twm.co.nz/militarywm.htm

Yes, I do believe weather is being manipulated for the purpose listed in the link.

Google shows about 150,000 entries on the subject of "Weather as a Force Multiplier".

This is "common knowledge" among government officials/politicians as I have previously seen it on a Military website a few years ago but did not keep the address.

It's very frightening to me as the subject suggests we will have enemies in the year 2025.

Mankind has always thought they have known more than nature. When ever will be learn!

jr: you can refer a link just by typing in the website address just as it is. When you post your message, the system automatically highlights it for you thereby identifying it as a link.

Hope this is what you meant.

Now this is really frightening:

The Bush Administration, Pentagon, and members of Congress want to relax restrictions on the military acting as law enforcement as prohibited under the Posse Comitatus act established after the civil war.

listen free on NPR, Morning Edition, 9-22-05, to Viki O'Hare's report titled "Military Ban on Law Enforcement Questioned". It's short - about 4-5 minutes.

Would love to hear your comments. How far would President Bush want to take this loosening of resistriction?

http://www.npr.org

Pat,QOP -- I miss Jo too!

Good headline as follows on Yahoo.

Beef producing counties lie on the path of Hurricane Rita. Seems to be telling something like
DON'T you kill cows and eat'em.

I just paid $40.00 to fill up my gas tank.

Last year at this time it only cost me $24.00

And while one million cars have spent the last 14 hours moving only 38 miles on highways out of Houston in anticipation of the largest hurricane to hit the Texas region since 1900, George W. Bush has been attending a golf game in Virginia.

The best toon of the week

http://www.markfiore.com/animation/kan.html

Beverly, thank you so much. I will try what you suggested.

thank you jm for the best wishes for my daughter's trip. I was probably the Cayce "person" judi.

I've got to put my 2c in here you guys and this might be long......

We talked about all this stuff happening at least 6 mos. to a year ago. I KNEW Bush was going down because "they" have decided it. Have you all not noticed that everywhere you look/ hear/ read is a statement on Bush's incompetency, etc? This is PLANNED. I'll tell ya one more thing that's going to happen....... Gore is going to become a HUGE partner in all this.
The whole idea is to divide & conquer. "They" want the people of the U.S. to go to war with each other, just as in Iraq. I'd bet 100 bucks the Dem. ticket is going to end up Gore/ Hillary, because that will cause the greatest amout of upheaval & discension in this country, imo. But it's all staged. This is what people have got to get through their heads, in order to shatter the cabal we are repressed by. I just can't see it happening for quite awhile still :(

"Oppressed by their excessively greedy rulers, people will hide in valleys between mountains, where they will gather honey, vegetables, roots, fruits, birds, flowers and so forth. "

well that sounds pretty good and what most of us are thinking anyway, how to hide, get away, grow our own..

"Suffering from cold, wind, heat and rain, they will put on clothes made of tree bark and leaves."

had to think about that one...and actually it makes sense. Our clothing now, polyester etc is made of oil derivatives, synthetics - no oil, no clothing from derivatives.. think about it...the Indian women used to chew bark to soften it and made it into clothing - no, I'm not kidding - at least that's what "they" led us to believe.

Sounds like homo sapiens will be starting all over again...it won;t be the first time they've started all over...

the only thing I dont buy is " in the Kali age humankind will be destroyed"

the Mayan don't predict that, changed yes, the native Indians dont predict that, changed as well..

and lots of fornicating goes on between the ages of 12 & 23.

Maybe the lesson of New Orleans is, 'get ready to
start over'

Another good one(lucky day for us, I'm getting all
good ones today), Lakshmi Choudhury's blog on alternet mentions how dumb dubya and rogue novak
took it on the chin from other VERY wealthy repugs
who won't BUY the trash from either crooked novak
or from corrupt shrub.

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/robertnovak/rn20050922.html

should be
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/robertnovak/rn20050922.shtml

A little insider trading by Frist?

Where's the ethics committee investigation?

Where's the AG, the trial, the jail, and the ankle bracelet?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050921/ap_on_go_co/frist_shares

Peg, your take on events reminds me of a dear one of mine--he was about 100 times more cynical than I.

At first, I'd roll my eyes at some of his interpretations of the news--but soon found out he was accurate 'way more than was comfortable.

Peg, It is one of my theories that the cons were set up to take a fall from the beginning. I've suspected that the election was stolen for them in order to bring them down permanently. Perhaps.

It is fascinating for me to watch in this time of head-for-cover crisis where everyone I know now goes for refuge. People always scatter to find the safe place that resonates with them individually.

I chose Astroworld and I was thinking about this. I think I like the maturity, wisdom, and even a certain detachment that I find here, not to mention the metaphysical knowledge. I always get through crisis by remembering that each moment is a teeny tiny speck in time and that the reason for it all will be revealed. As painful as it can get, so far, I've seen things work themselves out in time. And I am both participant and spectator.

Here at Astroworld, the trip I take through the minds of the posters is as interesting as current events.

THIS CAME TO ME VIA EMAIL AND IS SO HEARTWARMING I WANTED TO BE SURE AND PASTE HIS EMAIL TO ALL OF YOU.

God's Caravan follow-up

Ron,

This is a BIG Thank You to all who read your email and responded . It is
also a BIG Thank You to You.....because you care. If you can send this out
, it would be greatly appreciated. I want to give all the folks a followup.

We had 12 U-Haul vans, 4 SUVs and 1 pull behind-trailer.

We received items from 11 different counties:

1. Dade
2..Broward
3. Palm Beach
4. Hillsborough
5. Pasco
6. Orange
7. Seminole
8. Alachua
9. Leon
10. Okaloosa
11. Holmes

We dropped items in Pascagoula, Gulfport and to an unnamed devastated area
late at night under curfew (the soldiers were kind because it was much
needed baby formula and diapers).

Interestingly our first drop was a pick-up stop.... Tallahassee...FAMU. The
unreported story is the tremendous effort by everyday students at FAMU who
decided to put up sometimes whole families of folks from the devastated
areas in their dorm rooms or in frat houses. We left a whole van's worth on
campus, which worked out great, because we were able to reload in Okaloosa.

Things went well and but not as planned. We had a main contingent ,full, go
on ahead all the way into the devastated areas. We lost true contact with
them until we were all back on FLA soil. Adam Cota, Kelvin Haynes, and
myself manned the three Pick-Up vehicles`.

It must be noted that Kelvin Haynes lost his job because they would not
give him the days needed.
He did not hesitate to come with us even when fully cognizant of the
repercussions.

The Alachua folks were great! They put together loads of children's
backpacks with school and kid's items in each one. When we gave them out in
Gulfport they were a HUGE hit. One mother said that this was the first time
that her baby-girl had smiled since the storm.

We hoped that God's Caravan would a BLACK response to the overwhelmingly
Black faces on TV. We were well intentioned BUT misguided. All different
people gave and a whole lot of people came together around this. What we
ended up with was a wonderfully HUMAN response to a great Human tragedy.

I really realized this when I, the vice president of the Florida Black
Caucus, was unloading, in the darkness, cases of baby formula into what was
left of a house that belonged to a desperate White single mother of three.
Cases donated by a young Puerto Rican couple in south Palm Beach. At that
moment, I understood, it truly was God's Caravan.

God Bless,

Andrew Lewis

Guess I was premature, worrying about them, being presented with another cat 5 hurricane, to make themn look good! . The Texas officials have been so puffed up, about getting it right, compared to those incompetant Louisiana Gov. & Mayor. They have everyone out on the highway in their cars in MAJOR GRIDLOCK! I saw on CNN at 5pm that the gas stations weren't taking CASH! just credit cards......................they, just can't get away from the class warfare! FEMA has promised gas tanker trucks but so far NO SHOW! Maybe even the most clueless will get it now, all those gas guzzling SUV's stuck out of gas; and all those refineries having to shut down because they are in the path of the storm.

"Character is fate," Marcus Aurelius said; it is a straight line drawn from a man's birth to his final hour. Some men will fail in everything they do and there is no force in the universe that can alter their destiny.
Harken, Arbusto, Spectrum, the Texas Rangers and now the United States of America; all following the predictable downward spiral into the muck. The trajectory cannot be amended by simply putting down the bottle. Failure is an indelible blotch, like the mark of Cain, forever embossed on the soul of its victim. Its part of Bush's genetic-code, as integral to the whole mechanism as the cocky-drawl or the lumbering gait.
The Project for the New American Breakdown is headed for the political land-fill scuttled by its luckless wagon-master corporate-George.

http://smirkingchimp.com/article.php?sid=22857&mode=&order=0
Beverly,
I THINK I remember seeing an article about Bush overturning the posse comitatus act, on Truthout.....just before my forehead hit the keyboard! ( Last night?) SO I didn't get the link posted, and tonight I can't find it!

I think I can barter for deerskin & bearskin, rather than bark!
PQ

That this has been an outpouring from the hearts of Americans to other Americans, black, white, yellow, green, has been obvious from day one -
everyone but our own federal government.

We have 300 evacuees in Boynton Beach. They have received so much clothes they have asked people not to send anymore. And they have so much food
contributions that they are sending it over to the soup kitchens for the poor and homeless. And almost all of them have jobs within the two weeks they have been here.

It's very wonderful.

And amazing. The citizenry has found out they can get more done on their own than all the bureaucrats with their red tape entanglements, more than the failed government and more than the Red Cross who somehow can't find the people who need.

And the dead yet live....c'mon Pluto, bring it out, bring the truth of 9/11....

http://www.tomflocco.com/fs/OlsenArrested.htm

Pallas 1800, you are so rght--we can do it. But the government needs to do its part--like maintain the levees--etc. (the big public works stuff for which we institute governments) and the failure there isn't the government--it is the greedy incompetents who are running the government. Running it into the ground. We must demand better.

Why isn;t this on the front page of the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal?

President Carter says Gore won the Presidency in
2000 at a speech at American University. Carter
slaps the partisan Supreme Court:

http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Carter_says_Gore_won_2000_el_0922.html

Pat QOP....I'm with you on this....love the Marcus Aurelius....and from Raw Story, perhaps my favorite story....(some levity here, or else this is going to indicate the state of things to come (as for ME having work...I can't even get arrested!):

Italian ex-cons turn fashion designers.....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20050922/wl_csm/olett22;_ylt=AjUMwqU84IWQVeEVpZ_yUvqs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3b3JuZGZhBHNlYwM3MjE-

Shylurker, about that gravitational pull...I didn't want to mention that. But now that you have had the courage to mention it...definitely no spring-sproing here.

Judi Gemini, according to your description of your chart, you have had a guardian angel, Jupiter, transiting your 12th house (which it rules, really) for this last year. The battle of the bulge starts when it crosses your ascendent and you start to want to eat a tray of chocolate brownies with whipped cream all day long.

Pat QOP...an excellent suggestion. That Mars/Pluto energy could be put to good use and I'm going to follow your suggestion. I plan to use words of three syllables or more to whomever answers the phone at the WH because I know they will not be able to decipher anything more Hello, my name is....

JM, yes, I think time decelerates (sp.) when one gets to be my mother's age...99.5 years of age and still writing her own checks. She complains of too much time...and she's bored. Also, I liked your reminding us of Pluto guarding his riches.
Some Police officers in NO looting.

The stories about food being returned by governmential agencies is making me quite furious. I also heard that much of the clothing being sent to certain sites will be burned as garbage because nobody has the time to go through the stuff. This was on Cnn or NBC a couple of days ago according to an acquaintance of mine. I didn't see it. If true, we are, as usual surrounded by idiots.

If Shrub is drinking again, I am not surprised. He has all the earmarks of a dry drunk. Still would like to get it confirmed.

And finally, Clinton. He has more planets in rulership and exaltation than I have seen in a long time. Moon in Taurus,exaulted; Sun in Leo conjunct Regulus, Venus in it's own sign in the 1st house. I'm not saying he is a good or bad guy. I agree with Sally, he's a middle of the road guy. He's a typical ACOA guy. Keep the peace in a sea of alcoholics (his abusive, alcoholic father). These kids either turn out very abusive themselves, or they go to the other extreme and try to please everybody. Usually they have some form of addiction themselves to try and medicate the bad times. His is/was sexual addiction. The ruler of his Aries 7th house is at 6 Libra in his first house, seeped in Neptune,also at 6 Libra - the seeds of his "destruction," which was self destruction. Common to ACOA's.

Now the other one, the addict now in the WH is another story entirely. Lock him up with a bottle of rum and some poisonous frogs.

Pallas, it's nice to see you back again.

Yeah, where is Jo!?

Beasley....I've lost 25 lbs thru giving up addiction to overeating...until last week, when the battle started again. Just have to have discipline until the sugar levels go down (South Beach Diet really works, although I didn't do the first half on it....the last 12 lbs came off since late June.)

One thing is for sure, human beings are additive....to something, sometimes you can't even tell what it is! It completely floored me when I realized it was food!

Isn't it funny.....all those cars sitting on the TX freeway parking lots....with a catagory 4 or 5 hurricane about to run up their tails....lesson #2 in mass evacuations.....where do you put them all and do you have enough gas to get there ?

Here is another interesting story about FEMA (this is 2002!):
http://www.greatdreams.com/concentration.htm

CONCENTRATION CAMPS IN THE U.S.?
>
> FEMA Preparing for Mass Destruction Attacks on Cities
> John O. Edwards Monday, July 15, 2002
>
> FEMA, the federal agency charged with disaster
> preparedness, is engaged in a crash effort to prepare for
> multiple mass destruction attacks on U.S. cities - including
> the creation of sprawling temporary cities to handle
> millions of displaced persons, NewsMax has learned. FEMA is
> readying for nuclear, biological and chemical attacks
> against U.S. cities, including the possibility of multiple
> attacks with mass destruction weapons.
>

Judi G - That's gawdawfull chilling! 2002! I can never get over the absurdity of the details. Whenever I am confronted by these details, I am back in some lurid Star Wars script.

Pallas & all interested, perhaps Garry, who keeps us abreast of HAARP, could help us out with GAAAP (Gravity Acceleration Associated with Aging Phenomenon). Garry, we're counting on you, dear heart.

And, let me echo: where's Jo?

Yes Judi G,
And Sandra Day O'Conner, instead of staying on the SC protecting my interests; has retired and is writng children's books!!!!!!
Well this site is rockin' & my forehead is heading for the keyboard!
PQ

Pat QOP, please grab a bottle of Poland Springs water on your way to the keyboard!

Thanks Beasley.

I do remember reading something about time moving faster and they had to adjust THE clock - where is it? at Greenwich? Nasa? Of course I can't remember, but I do remember reading the article and they had to adjust the clock.

Earth changes map

http://www.nhne.com/graphics/ordermap.GIF

Earth changes map

http://www.nhne.com/graphics/ordermap.GIF

Things are getting wild in Houston according to this report:

>>Houston is in total chaos. People running out of gas after 10 to 14 hours on the road. Lines at the stations that do have gas. Here locally, there is a mad dash to fill up at the stations. Turning into complete bedlam! Some people driving for some distance to only find they are now headed to the storm. Back to looking like something out of Revelations. I just got back from talking with my buddy to make plans on how we will take care of things. He gave me the update on things in town here. He said it is a madhouse on the roads right now.<<

jm, maybe this is more of the awakening of the general population - you can run but you can't hide from living in harmony with nature. And gas guzzling autos are not the final solution.

Gary, that tom flocco report is amazing if correct. What is flocco's track record. I know he predicted imminent indictments for bush, et al in plame case which never materialzed. . .

Kiwi, I think the SUV stocks have already tanked (Ha ha!).
I think it's over. No final solution here. Food guzzling people too. It's mathematics. Put a food guzzler with all its weight in a huge gas guzzler because it will accommodate the girth, and You've got some massive consumption.
I wholeheartedly support an awakening.

I think the neocons are an embarrassment and might be out of the game. They have no class and they are supposed to represent the elite. The aristocracy maintains its position by an air of superiority. This shows signs of decay in their standards. The Bushes are said to have good breeding but I don't believe it. Something got in there. His deportment is atrocious.
So if the elite is troubled, it's a good time to move and get a toe hold.

Love that visual image.....food guzzler in a gas guzzler!

Cybear...................hope you reached your destination safely, along with my G.childrens other G. Mother, who also had to evacuate Houston.

Can we verify Flocco's report on Olsen's arrest anywhere? I think the jury's still out on the Plame indictments.....he may have been correct but premature on that story.

Poland Springs on the menue for today, with emergency C !
PQ

Are the neocons out of the game???????

Morning Report 9/22/05
Wolfowitz Sends His Gal to State Dept. —
To Work With Cheney's Daughter
No announcement, but World Bank internal memo reveals new assignment for Shaha Riza

from the Village Voice
http://buzzflash.com/

BTW, I thought Bush was drinking, when he made that address, instead of meeting Cindy Sheehan in Crawford, last month!
Wouldn't that drive a a man to drink, all those noisy dissenters camped out in your neighbor's backyard!
Nothing to do with the 1000 dead in NO!
PQ

The Bush boozing story is not a new one. The editor has heard of and written about Bush's drinking bouts since 2001. The "choking pretzel" incident had nothing to do with a pretzel but was a carefully contrived story used to cover up a Bush drinking spree that resulted in his passing out on a coffee table in the White House second floor residence and injuring his face. Ditto the numerous cases of Bush falling off a bike somewhere to explain further wounds on his face. Back in college, we used to call that getting "s**t-faced drunk." Apparently, Mr. Bush still thinks he's in college.

http://www.waynemadsenreport.com/
Interesting gossip but read the next article down dated Sept 22 2005, re: Neil Bush's international activities
PQ

Another Matthew update---call me crazy (or a tinfoil-hatter) but the positive tone of the messages he sends is strangely calming:

http://www.matthewbooks.com/mm/anmviewer.asp?a=42&z=2

I know some people have issues with chanelled messages, and I have my doubts, but I would like at least some of this to be true...only time will tell.....

I went to bed last night thinking you all might lambast me for my post, and woke up to have my faith renewed that this site is truly one of the only bastions of safety I (we) have in these difficult times. Thank you, thank you, everyone, and especially our dear Sally, who truly knows the meaning of freedom of expression. I LOVE our ability to express our thoughts here, and share the knowledge we all have accumulated.

jm, I totally am with ya- without utilizing metaphysical insight, and objectivity, I would be in a very sorry state right now I'm sure. Funny how we really are much more prepared than we give ourselves credit for.

****This website is a MUST SEE. I came across it the other day. Here is it's description:

The CIA Fakes

Note: We do not contend that everyone associated with these
websites are knowing intelligence operatives. Some have been
professionally manipulated, others merely misled. In any event
these are promoting the psyop agendas and disinformation
themes of the covert controllers. This is also not meant to
be a fully comprehensive listing of all the fake websites. http://wagnews.blogspot.com/2005/08/cias-internet-fakes.html

Garry, you & I surf alot of the same sites, please look at this. Tom Flocco is bogus.

Love you all. Pallas, glad you're back. Jo, hope all is well, we miss you.

Peg, Having spent most of my life with a quadruple Leo, I would never ever in a million years try to curtail any self expression from one.

I find this quite, quite interesting from Brzezinski.. Trilateral Commission, right?

>>Our country has lost its sense of absolute security, Brzezinski said, and we're not handling it well. For the first time, we're feeling the vulnerability that other nations feel, he said.

"We're not used to this, so we have a tendency to dramatize the threat and to overstate the fear," he said, citing the war in Iraq.

The lack of global support for the war shows other countries knew our reasons were based on suspicion, not knowledge, Brzezinski said. That paranoia isolates us from the rest of the world and destroys our credibility, he said. The United States will need other countries to help with concerns such as North Korea and Israel, but first we need to regain their trust by cooperating, he said.

"If we want to be leaders," he said, "we have to have those who are willing to follow us."<<

http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/112747512617590.xml&coll=2

What does this mean in diplomatic doublespeak?

Peg,

the site you linked to - Wag News - is bogus...

one half of the sites they listed are REPUTABLE LEGITIMATE Sites... i.e., antiwar.com, counterpunch, etc.

Some may be left of left, and some may be Libertarian... but they're legit alright... this site, Wag News, is disinformation.

Peg-
Sorry(no disrespect intended)but I have to agree with the poster above me--that wag news site is
disinfo. One of the links listed is blackboxvoting.org--isn't that Bev. Harris' site?

I don't know you guys. Hell, it seems almost impossible to navigate for truth anymore. I like all those sites too, maybe it was disinfo put out to discredit??? Anyway the guy on WRH (one of my favs.) is challenging Tom Flocco bigtime. Check it out: Okay Tom, time to put up or shut up http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/index.html

jm, quadruple Leo??!! Oh my, pat yourself on the back! Surprised you didn't witness spontaneous combustion in the process, lol.

Here's my last contribution today (helping daughter pack, hoping to remain as excited as she is sans any tears) a compilation of weather modification resources:http://www.greatdreams.com/weather/weather_manipulation.htm

oh yeah, the Brezinski stuff, who knows how to interpret it? But I wouldn't give that man a bit of credence.

Greetings All~
I meant to post yesterday, but my computer was down all day, due to tech problems.
Just wanted to pass along Abundant Autumn blessings to everyone in this season of Harvest. In the midst of it all, may we each create Balance within our hearts and lives.
~Shine

Hey all from Houston Tx. My partner and I are riding the storm out here at home. The traffic here is a joke due to the histeria the media has created. Yes, there are areas here that needed to evacuate, but not the whole city. That's why there are people still sitting in traffic jams that are 100 miles long getting out of the city. Anyway, we are in far west Houston, 50 miles from the coast and as of now, we will be on the clean side. Yea! But, we will still get tropical storm winds and rain as of now. So, I will post throughout the day and night or until we lose power. Updates later!

Sally,
shrub's worst period seems to be beginning Sept.
24th., when Rita hits Texas/LA, maybe his ranch in
Crawford and also the big opposition against shrub's iraqui war. Can you spot the planets' positions on Sept.24 for astro analysis?

http://www.weatherwars.info/

http://www.journalnet.com/articles/2005/09/23/news/local/news05.txt

Pat QOP: I am confused....You said that O'Connor retired instead of protecting your rights. How did she protect your and my rights when her so called "swing vote" gave the presidency to George Bush. She is conservative eventhough she upheld a woman's right to choose, but betrayed us all when she issued her highly partisan vote for Bush. I will never forget that, ever!

I just have to say that...please don't be offened.

hey wv,
welcome back.How're things in Canada? You've returned just as shrub's rampant tail spin is afoot beginning Sept.24

This comment has nothing to do with astrology, but reflects on the big picture.

The word "Gulf" hit me last night - I get fascinated by meanings/sound vibration/etymology of words that often portray greater/wider truths.

First we have Gulf 1, Gulf 2, Wars
Then we have Gulf 1, Gulf 2, Hurricanes.
All presided over by the Bush Clan and cohorts who made their fortunes from the bountiful treasures hidden beneath the surface of the Gulf.

Gulf Dictionary meaning: A large deep bay; a deep chasm; something that divides or separates such as a lack of understanding; something that engulfs such as a whirlpool; to swallow up; engulf. From old french, italian, greek.

It seems to me that the focus on so many "gulf" issues over these past years merely serves to mirror the deepening chasm of political, financial, religious and social disfunction the world faces today.
Is it a chicken or egg case of collective thinking creates outer reality, or our outer reality creates our thinking/behaviour?

To All

As another example of Bush's incoherence, here he is linking terrorism and Katrina at a speech he gave Wednesday. Quote: "They're the kind of people (terrorists) who look at Katrina and wish they had caused it. We're in a war against these people."

We can add this to the list of the most disjointed things he has ever said. He apparently thinks such a link up will improve his ratings???? Such talk is deliberate, balatant and ineffective and completely out of context.
See "The Washington Post" for more.

Kiwijeanie: How amazing! and fun to read. I bet we could come up with a lot more hidden meanings if we thought about it a little more.

I think, like you, there is a message in it all.

Good one KiwiJeannie....very good...the gulf between the Bush family and the rest of us is wide and deep.

got a great cartoon from a friend...the latest Tom Tomorrow...
This Modern World...radical librul plot.....

pretty good! http://www.salon.com/comics/tomo/2005/09/19/tomo/index1.html

New Orleans: Prisoners Abandoned to Floodwaters
22 Sep 2005 18:15:21 GMT
Source: Human Rights Watch
(New York, September 22, 2005)-As Hurricane Katrina began pounding New Orleans, the sheriff's department abandoned hundreds of inmates imprisoned in the city's jail, Human Rights Watch said today. Inmates in Templeman III, one of several buildings in the Orleans Parish Prison compound, reported that as of Monday, August 29, there were no correctional officers in the building, which held more than 600 inmates. These inmates, including some who were locked in ground-floor cells, were not evacuated until Thursday, September 1, four days after flood waters in the jail had reached chest-level.
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/HRW/ea2602d166560bed533d2afbae6d8274.htm

Good stuff on "(G)ulf ", kiwijeanie. Ty

Ok, Pat C, Tesla, so the US is run by the Insane who are even crazier than I thought last month. I take comfort knowing this....
"...the psychopharmacologists Dennis and Terrence McKenna chronologically plotted the greatest discoveries and technological developments since 5000 BC, then fed the information into a computer. The data arranged into a hyperbolic curve that flattened out around 1975. Intrigued, they programmed the computer to project and predict future discoveries; this time the line took a dramatic upswing, flying off the scale at 2011, whereupon the predictions ended; during the last two hours of this time-scale, no less than 18 crucial discoveries are predicted, some rivalling the splitting of the atom. These accomplishments would be accompanied by transformations in human consciousness in the year marking the end of the Mayan calendar, which predicts this, the Age of Intellect, to be superseded by the Age of the Spirituality in 2012."

Garry, go to the World Health Org website and read their study on it here.
http://www.who.int/csr/disease/influenza/H5N1-9reduit.pdf

I think the rats are still jumping ship....Susan Wood resigned from the FDA last week (that was the story of the FDA replacing her - temporarily- with a veterinarian)....now:
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/HRW/ea2602d166560bed533d2afbae6d8274.htm
Last month, morale at the agency plummeted when Crawford indefinitely postponed nonprescription sales of morning-after contraception over the objections of staff scientists who had declared the pill safe. FDA's women's health chief resigned.

Jill G...I loved Terence McKenna, and still mourn his passing....he wrote many books, but I really loved 'Food of the Gods"....magic mushrooms, peyote, ayahuasca....and the consciousness arising from the ingesting of same....thanks for the 2012 additions on Omega Point.

The WHO url doesn't open....what is the main link titled from the WHO website?

Judi G, you can get the newest Tom Tomorrow on "Working for Change" every Tuesday without going through the Salon advertising.

http://www.workingforchange.com/comic.cfm?itemid=19635

Also his website is http://www.thismodernworld.com/

Judi G, sorry, it's an Adobe Acrobat doc.
http://www.who.org/

I cannot vouch for the veracity of this site, but it is about science and bible predictions of apocolypse....http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/profecias/esp_profecia01i2.htm

Jill...thanks, that will help other people, but I joined Salon...didn't realize there was advertising to see it! In fact, it is so recent that I joined I didn't realize they carried Tom Tomorrow! I got the it as a jpeg file from a firend....

According to geologist Alfred Fischer (Princeton Univ.), the periodic mass destruction of life on Earth seemingly operates on two different cycles. His analysis of extinction events distinguished a 37-million year cycle in addition to the 26-28 million year cycle. The two cycles reinforce each other approximately every 75 million years, producing a super-mass extinction; in the last such some 65 million years ago, 99% of all species on Earth disappeared. The same thing happened 77 million years previously and 76 million years before that.

"A mass extinction of species is taking place today without cosmic intervention. The wanton destruction of tropical forests represents the greatest extinction to occur since the end of the Cretaceous Age. Plant species are dying at the rate of 10,000 per year, one per hour. About 2 million species will have been lost by 2,000 AD."

Many of the disasters attributed to nature actually are caused or worsened by human activity. The number of deaths from droughts, floods, earthquakes and other natural phenomena increased six-fold in the 1970s, due to human vulnerability resulting from poverty and poor land use. Disaster relief often is useless or even counterproductive.
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/profecias/esp_profecia01i2.htm

Beverly,
I plead rank ignorance for that statement! Although I watched network TV, and got the broad outline strokes of the 2000 election. ( Which gave me enough information to know I didn't want Bush.) I didn't have c-span to watch the congress
until the spring of 2001; I remember watching Helen Thomas' retirement party, and then on 9/11 there she was again in the front row with the WH press core.
But I was very busy with my Americorps VISTA job, and not collecting details.
Compaired to Priscilla Owen, I would feel better with S D O
Mea culpa PQ

and for all of you (including myself) who feel time extending or compressing, read this ...#12 The Physics of Timehttp://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/profecias/esp_profecia01i2.htm

14. Time & Mind ~

In 1982, architect Alton DeLong (Univ. of Tennessee) found that the smaller the scale of your environment, the faster your internal clock will run. DeLong tested the time-sense of volunteers who imagined themselves to be "in" small-scale rooms used as architectural models, and found that people estimate the passage of time at a faster rate in proportion to the model scale of the room. People in a one-sixth scale room guessed that 30 minutes had passed after only 5 minutes actually had elapsed. Time seemed to pass 12 times as fast in one-twelfth scale rooms, and 20 times faster in one-twenty-fourth scale rooms. In an ordinary room, the subjects’ estimates of time closely approximated regular clock time.

The psychobiological nature of time changes with our age and mindset. In human society, the solar day defines our inherent sense of time. Psychological time consists of the continuation of metabolism between conception and death. True age is a functional organic state; tests of cellular reproduction rates have shown that aging proceeds much more rapidly in childhood than at the end of life. Thus, in terms of physiological time, infancy is very long and old age is very short. In terms of inner, psychological time, however, infancy seems to be very brief, while old age seems very long. Psychological time is mind observing its own motion through the series of its states. In youth, time flies; in middle age, time crawls; in old age, time runs out...

Heavens! wv has returned. Our adult prodigy back from his journey!

judi,

very, very, very interesting. Thank you so much. Any stuff like this you find, please let us have it. I think keys to our growth are in knowledge of this nature. The primitive behavior we are witnessing in the political game is on the way out, I think, while others are in alternative dimensions getting ready and collecting pertinent facts. With quantum mechanics on the way in, we have a lot of information. I think physics and spirituality are due for a big blending soon.

I also think that one of the great lessons of Katrina is the dangers of overcrowding. Too much density for the land will ultimately bring the demise of the population, I think. Probably all overcrowded cities are scheduled for demolition in time. Especially when trapped with no room to expand in case of emergency.

The quick passage of time in the small room is so interesting. I think it might translate to overcrowding in populations and a sense that there is not enough room or time. This all leads to frustration, fear, paranoia, and a breakdown in good social behavior. The mob hysteria is always percolating.

JudiG, your post reminds me of a very interesting medical research study that was done about heart attacks. The subjects were all males in two groups: one group lived in Boston or some other large East Coast city, and the other group was composed of brothers or first cousins who lived in Ireland.

The interesting thing is that the diets of both groups were similar, and the physical activities were dissimilar. The Irish engaged in much more physical exercise as part of daily work and life.

As you already suspect--the Americans suffered more heart attacks and trouble than their Irish kin.

Another stricking dissimilarity was the experience of time. The Americans felt there was not enough time. The Irish experience was illustrated by one man's comment:

"Well, when God made Time, He made a great deal of it."

Forgot to state the salient point--the Irish mostly lived in a rural setting and the Americans were high-density urban.

The whole concept of not having enough time has always struck me as odd. We all have the same amount in the material plane. And where are we supposed to get more if we think we need it? Americans have bought into the multi-task fantasy and don't have enough time for the things they try to do. Being too busy has become an indication of importance and something to aspire to, but it only undermines health and well being. So ridiculous.

This is an interesting article on 2006 - particularly in light of Katrina - written january 2005 by Carrie Lever
http://www.anastrologersperspective.com/articles/US2006.php.4.php

Since no one has come up with any dire predictions for tomorrow, I'm assuming the big demo in DC will proceed successfully (i.e., peacefully). Oh, I hope so!!!

From http:// www.aaiusa.org Countdown

Leave it to Robertson to Find the Silver Lining…
There are public figures we at Countdown can always rely on to take advantage of national tragedy to reap financial or political reward. Pat Robertson—whose invectives include calling for the assassination of Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez and declaring the Supreme Court a greater threat to the United States than Al Qaeda—is one of our favorites because he usually does both. According to The New York Times’ Frank Rich, “After Katrina, the FEMA Website directing charitable contributions prominently listed Operation Blessing, a Pat Robertson kitty that, according to I.R.S. documents obtained by ABC News, has given more than half of its yearly cash donations to Mr. Robertson's Christian Broadcasting Network. If FEMA is that cavalier about charitable donations, imagine what it's doing with the $62 billion (so far) of taxpayers' money sent its way for Katrina relief.” Makes you want to pull out your wallet, doesn’t it?

What news of Fitzgerald and the like?

ANOTHER POST FROM BARBARA, A VERY INTERESTING STORY.

By JILL YOUNG MILLER
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 09/23/05

They don't eat ham. And they don't like to be spied on, either.

The story begins outside a HoneyBaked Ham store on Buford Highway just
before Christmas 2003.
KEITH HADLEY / Staff
(ENLARGE)
Vegans Caitlin Childs and Christopher Freeman were arrested after a protest
at a HoneyBaked Ham store.

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That day, two vegans < vegetarians who eat only plants and plant products <
were wrapping up an animal cruelty protest with a handful of other vegans
when they noticed a man in a CVS pharmacy parking lot taking pictures of
them.

Later, they would learn that the man was an undercover homeland security
detective, according to a federal lawsuit the American Civil Liberties Union
of Georgia filed Thursday on the vegans' behalf.

The lawsuit, in U.S. District Court in Atlanta, charges that the detective,
who was working for DeKalb County's Homeland Security Division, and a county
police officer subjected Caitlin Childs and Christopher Freeman to false
imprisonment, false arrest and harassment and violated their constitutional
rights.

After the ham protest, Childs and Freeman walked over to the mysterious
man's car and wrote down his license plate number. When they drove off, they
noticed the car following them.

They pulled into a parking lot at a Mexican restaurant. The car and a police
car pulled in behind them. The vegans were ordered out of their car and told
to hand over the piece of paper with the tag number on it. Childs refused
and was handcuffed and searched. She and Freeman were arrested for
disorderly conduct and jailed.

They were released, but the piece of paper and Childs' house keys weren't
returned, the lawsuit says.

"I couldn't believe that all of it was happening," Freeman, now 36, said
Thursday. "We were out there doing educational outreach on a topic that is
important to us." At the event, "we were handing out leaflets on
alternatives to pork," he said.

Childs, now 22, said they brought suit because "this really could happen to
anyone who practices their free speech in the kind of time we're living in.
It's really scary."

Childs and Freeman live in East Atlanta. They are suing DeKalb County,
Detective D.A. Gorman and an officer identified as K.A. Moffit. The
newspaper could not reach the officers Thursday, and county officials
wouldn't comment.

In court, Childs hopes to hold government officials "accountable." "Citizens
aren't going to allow you to bully us and harass us and take away our
rights," she said. "We will fight back."

A Homeland Security report on the incident, which The Atlanta
Journal-Constitution got from the ACLU of Georgia, says Gorman told Childs
and Freeman he was a police detective "instructed to monitor and picture the
protest."

Gorman told Childs he was driving an undercover vehicle and didn't want the
tag number passed around. The report said the two vegans were "hostile,
uncooperative and boisterous towards the officers."

The county's Homeland Security Division, within the DeKalb Police
Department, was formed after the County Commission decided in October 2001
to hire a homeland security director. The move was prompted by the terrorist
attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

Gerry Weber, legal director at the ACLU of Georgia and a lead attorney in
the lawsuit, said the case "illustrates the overreaching of homeland
security by monitoring clearly peaceful protesters. This is a poor
allocation of resources and chills free speech."

Weber said he had no idea why the protesters were under surveillance. "One
couldn't imagine a less threatening image than vegan protesters in front of
a HoneyBaked Ham," he said.

Deputy Chief Moses Ector, DeKalb's commander of homeland security, referred
a reporter to the chief public information officer for DeKalb County police,
who said he could not comment on a pending lawsuit.

Acting county attorney Viviane Ernstes did not return phone calls seeking
comment. Burke Brennan, spokesman for the county, said, "DeKalb County has a
strict policy preventing us from discussing pending litigation."

In addition to the lawsuit, the state ACLU is seeking any law enforcement
surveillance files on Childs and Freeman.

ACLU affiliates in 15 other states have filed similar requests with the FBI
on behalf of more than 100 groups and individuals, according to an ACLU news
release, "as part of a nationwide effort to expose unlawful domestic
spying."

Said Childs, "They're using security and the idea of terrorism, which is
such a hot word and scares people, to silence people who have unpopular
beliefs."

Barbara

Hurricane Rita, a Category 3 storm with 120 mph winds, made landfall at 2:38 a.m. 9/24/05 just east of Sabine Pass on the southeast Texas coast.

Laurie, this one give a different time.

http://www.katc.com/Global/story.asp?S=3892594

Hurricane Rita comes ashore, threatening flooding from New Orleans to Houston
BEAUMONT, Texas -- Hurricane Rita plowed into the Gulf Coast early Saturday, lashing Texas and Louisiana with driving rain, igniting the pre-dawn sky with exploding transformers and threatening to flood the low-lying region.

Rita made landfall at 3:38 a.m. EDT as a Category 3 storm just east of Sabine Pass, on the Texas-Louisiana line, bringing with it a 20-foot storm surge and up to 25 inches of rain, the National Hurricane Center said.

The storms slow march spread worries it would dump nearly 2 feet of rain on flood-prone parts of Texas and Louisiana, spurring tornadoes as it churned north-northwest with winds topping 120 mph.

More...

Pat C - My 2:38 was Texas time, no doubt CST. 3:38 EDT. I can't find the link where I copied that to begin with but I'm sure they meant local time.

Oy. It's confusing Laurie!

Morgana just sent me this article from yahoo with the weather service time of Rita's landfall. 2:30 CDT, 3:30 EDT

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050924/ap_on_re_us/hurricane_developments

George Galloway is on fire at the rally!
http://www.c-span.org/watch/cspan_rm.asp?Cat=TV&Code=CS

Jill G. I can't get the realplayer to work. I have tried several times and can't find anything on google as yet.

In the meantime, I listened to the Hitchens/Galloway debate last Thursday and he was excellent as I expected he would be. I wasn't impressed with his comments about the "slug and slime"... which I thought were unprofessional. To listen just google key words for audio...it's in a lot of places.
There is a lot of material on the internet about George Galloway. I am not sure if he is just a political opportunist or sincere about his political views but I certainly value his contribution to the anti-war efforts.

If anyone is interested his birthdate is August 16, 1954. Dundee, Scotland. I can't find a time as I don't know how to do that.
He is so gifted with oratory. Haven't heard such good speaking since I read Chief Joseph's speeches several years ago.
I am curious astrologicaly about where his gift comes from. How important his voice will be in the anti-war movement and if he will be evelated to a higher position in British politics in the future.
We can find out more about him from this interview he gave to the Sunday Herald in which he talks about his religious view, politics, love, and his past as a womanizer.
I believe he is married to a Jordanian doctor who teaches at the University of Glasgow. A microbiologist???
http://www.sundayherald.com/51112
This is interesting too if it works:
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4539429.stm

The bbc link will work if you type it in the address bar just as it is.

Beverly,
C-span does Windows Media player too. If you have a Mac you can get a free copy of Realplayer from their site here. Personally I like the viewing quality of Quicktime; but hardly any sites use it.
http://service.real.com/realplayer/support.html?section=rpMac

We watched it on the dish TV.
My tech warned me away from realplayer for Mac, said it causes a lot of problems.................so I got hooked up!
There were 250, thou there today, a lot of the same faces I saw on Oct '02, but older and sadder! The crowd was a wonderful smorgasboard of diversity. A Norman Rockwell on steroids!
Amtrack found a variety of reasons to shut down their service in the NE corrider. They are supported by the elite & serve the elite! My froiend who commutes to NY from Trenton NJ for her job says a round trip ticket from Trenton on NJ Transit costs, $20.00, a ONE WAY from Trenton to NY is $70.00 on Amtrack!!!!!!! ( same stations)
But it was like watching an alternative universe.................over on CNN they were frantically milking every puddle dry, trying unsuccessfully to replicate the sensationalism of Katrina.
And the Sen from Arkansas ( D ) who gave the Dem reply to Georgies radio ADDRESS was somwhere in lala land, talking about the "unity of our great nation" Neighbors helping neighbors, and "giving". meanwhile they've pulled off a major redistricting..that makes Texas & Calif look like kindergarten!
PQ

Good news here!
( And they shut down the DC metro today too!)
Sept. 22 (Bloomberg) -- The widening investigation of lobbyist Jack Abramoff is moving beyond the confines of tawdry influence-peddling to threaten leading figures in the Republican hierarchy that dominates Washington.

This week's arrest of David Safavian, the former head of procurement at the Office of Management and Budget, in connection with a land deal involving Abramoff brings the probe to the White House for the first time.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=washingtonstory&sid=IN7A1S0UQVI9
PQ

Sally, thanks so much for posting the "two Vegans arrested by Homeland Security officer after leafletting outside ham store" story. Gosh, you can't make this stuff up.

There was a picture accompanying the AJC story--Freeman and Childs are an attractive young couple. The Atlanta Journal/Constitution headline said they were suing because of "surveillance"--but actually they are suing for false arrest and false emprisonment.

Since I am now living in the area will keep track of developments and let AWorld know what happens next.

PS--Everybody who was in DC today thanks for posting info on the rally.

Man, I am so bummed out. For the last 2 years we (my mother, sister and I) Mostly Mom and I, have dealt with Dad's Alzeimers. He went in to the hospital with pneumonia Friday before last. He came out very weak and disorientied. He alternates bewteen rage and submission. Sometimes he's OK then other times he's totally f----n nuts. This is not new, by the way. I live with my parents due to this "problem". My youngest brother lives next door and helps a good deal. denial mode. "Oh, he just needs some ginko or exercise.....bla bla bla. I just have to deal with my own life". Well, I had a life at one time. Goddess I need a break! I can say without embarassement that I HAVE HAD IT WITH THIS CRAP! Why did the so called "Greatest Generation" take on this bull s--- disease. Oh, it was to teach us caring and love. My ass. My father has given me a mild concussion, a broken finger and a black eye! Then, one day the worm turned and when he started to hit me for trying to stop him from going up the road, I clocked him. Down and out. He has anger issues big time. Born Nov. 2, 1921. My grandaddy beat the h out of him and grandma when he was a kid. But, I will say this, he never beat Mom or us kids. Strange.

Sorry, I will leave it now.

Patricia,
So very sorry to hear about your situation. I have a friend with the same problem! She is the one that has invited me to stay with her this winter. She is dealing with the same anger issues. And she e-mailed in shame one day because she decked him too. Yes and she doesn't have a life either! At least being an only she doesn't have any siblings in denial.
I don't think there's a a spiritual reason behind the disease, I think it's an environmental issue. THEY say aluminum pans aren't responsible....................but then THEY said for 10 years it was better to eat pasta and now they have switched the entire food pyrimid around, and still not mentioning all the additive horrors going on. I went through a long period when my wedding gift small revereware pans needed replacing, and couldn't buy ANYTHING except aluminum pans; or a $100. starter set. Finally after 10 years a remander store had a nice sale on revereware & I restocked!!!!!!!!
IS there anyway you can get him into a facility? Or a least a daycare situation?
We have to get healthcare in this country, & I'm hoping the political news of today will set us free to claim that right as citizens!

I have been lucky here in Maine SO FAR, with Mainecare, Eric's care has been free but that may be changing, with the lengthy spendthrift ways of present GOVT.

And he will not be needing it for very much longer....................
He has gone into a coma state in the last 24 hours,, my daughter is on her way here, ............and yes I have not been able to do much beyond, washing dishes, clothes, feeding cats, emptying cat boxes, and report to the library for short hours, after spending time with Eric at the nursing home,
My posts at AW are a much needed distraction!
((((((((((((Patricia))))))))))))) this too shall pass.........
PQ

Patricia and Pat QOP
Deerhearts, let these hugs find you both tonight. Little tears flood the corners of my eyes may you both find rest and peace.
As you walk in beauty.
tseka

E. Francis has posted this from his archives. Wonder if he read Vis' Varuna comments or if it's serendipity. Interesting history:
http://planetwavesweekly.com/drdc8/current/050701.html

Patricia and Pat QOP: I am in awe of the two of you. Incredible strength in the midst of all the love and caring and responsibilities you are meeting so admirably.

Shylurker,
I so agree with you, it is awe the of these remarkable women which brings tears to the corners of my eyes. A certain sparkling moment of appreciation.

Well Eric died, sometime between the posts by Patricia and Mine.
When I signed on I noticed the moon was voc 29 II...........that was directly on his MC! AND 9 degrees into my 1st house.
It was OK that I wasn't there with him.........he had a journey to make without me. What I did last weekend, ( getting him Baptised & given Communion, was my assignment! )
I saw a free, chubby laughing little boy, in a striped Tshirt
hovering near the ceiling, when we went over there after Jen arrived.
He was so absolutely, passionately progressive, I find it curious that he left on the day of the big antio-war rally/the CHANGE.
PQ

Oh, Pat QOP!! A great swirling rush of love and support is being sent by each of us in this AW collective.

Oh, dear, dear, Pat QOP; we grieve with you.

My dear Pat, grief over the loss of a loved one is something all humanity suffers but it always remains a solitary experience. There isn't anything that can be said or done to erase the pain you feel. One of my closest friends lost a child through drugs a couple of years ago and she said "it seemed as if I had spent a life time with her, and for her, and it was all over so quick." I think that might be how you must feel.

I am profoundly saddened for you, as all mothers feel saddened at the loss of a child any child, even if not theirs. It seems trite to say "our prayers and love" are with you, but they are Pat, they truly are.

PQ, my dear chirping early bird friend and poet.

It's hard to find the words for this. I want to say that in the difficult hours, days, weeks, and months ahead, you can count on your friends. I'm not budging. Talk to us.

It was so fast. your courage makes me less afraid of all that's ahead.

I hope to God that Eric's choice of this Day of Peace is a portent. We owe him.

(((((Pat QOP))))) my thoughts are with you also.

Pat QQP, my thoughts are with you!! Lots of love and light sent and heading your way . . . .

Pat Q,

My sincere condolances.Take care of yourself. (((((ERIC))))) with the angels.

Pat Q, Know that you are not alone. Giant hugs to you.
karen

I've never had a child, so I don't have quite the same eloquence as others. But losing a loved one is like losing a whole universe-and the world seems to stop at times.

Condolences. Eric is with the angels now, where he can be cared for until he returns again. Don't be afraid of knowing that he watches over you from time to time. Charles Fillmore, when he lost his wife Myrtle after so many years, said that sense grieves but the spririt knows that life and love continue even beyond the grave. And it is so. My best friend I can sometime still sense her presence at odd moments even though she crossed the divide almost 10 years ago.

Namaste and Peace,

Carol

Googled this:
"Varuna is the KEEPER OF THE CELESTIAL WATERS, THOSE WHICH FLOW FROM THE OPENING IN THE SKY in the form of rain. He was worshiped with veneration and a healthy amount of fear, for as an asura Varuna did have his sinister aspects and WAS KNOWN TO PUNISH MORTALS WHO DID NOT KEEP THEIR WORD. (caps mine) He was the cosmic hangman and his usual method of punishment was to capture the offender with his noose. He was also a lord of the dead, a position he shared with Yama, and could confer immortality if he so chose."

Pat QOP, when my mother passed away, I was privileged to be with her and witnessed the flow of her soul's light through the passageway in the veil between the worlds. I just don't feel the same about death since then. She was so relieved to lay down the burden of her worn out suffocating (copd) body and rushed over to that higher place. I hope your son was equally relieved to lay down the burden of his pain, and found joy in that place, also.
Not that my trite little words should lessen your grief any, nor would I expect them to, as the grieving seems to be necessary to the healing.
Love and light to you and yours.

Dearest PatQ,

My deepest condolences. My prayers and thoughts are with you.

Janet

Pat POQ, Love surround you dearone and all of yours...Eric the name in swedish is -one who guides us -the asteroid which carries the energy of the name Eric was 2 degrees libra conjoined with the sun at the time he passed between realms....perhaps your chubby, laughing boy leaves us all a message in this balancing point of time.

may the path of harmony / beauty pass through your house
may those who abide within live in peace by it's design
tseka

While some things Matthew says seems a bit outlandish, I know that I always come away from his message feeling better. Here's a new one:

Levees in New Orleans detonated; emotions in the higher vibrations; what is behind Rita; wise leadership by year end; Katrina death toll; war troop casualties; FEMA; “All my love”

http://www.matthewbooks.com/mm/anmviewer.asp?a=42&z=2

Pat QOP-
My deepest condolences for your loss.

And re the time of his leaving, during the anti-war rally, perhaps his work here was done? In that we've raised our consciousness & our voices against the warmongers and we're FINALLY making some progress and our presence known and visible? Kind of a way of saying,"You're on the right track---keep it going so that my time here wasn't in vain."

That's what I'm taking from it. And the grief process is rarely easy, but know you're not alone, we're all right here within arm's reach.

(((Pat QOP))) (((Eric)))
Namaste and love

PatQOP, from California to Maine our love flows to you. Namaste

((((( Pat QofP )))))

I'm so sorry to here of Eric's passing. Reiki, love and light have been sent to give you strength in your time of need.

Many Blessings

PatQOP, you have my deepest sympathy for the loss of your precious son, Eric. True Love NEVER Dies. What is Remembered, Lives.
Blessed be,
Shine

Dearest Pat QOP,

My thoughts are ever with you. My profoundest condolences to you during this time. And the purest of white light for the days to come. I have no words, just ((((((Pat QOP)))) and (((((Eric))))).

Cheney's health: http:// www.msnbc.com/id/8597891

Also another link on the same page, to the right. A history of his health problems.

That's http://www.msnbc.com/id/8597891

Sunday Morning Funny...

Your vote for Nominee

Clark
Gore

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/9/24/173410/291

Why is this such a comforting site? It is, as many have attested. We posters have info on a variety of negative news and trends--yet I feel stronger and ready to go on after logging in.

Maybe it is because this is a community of good will toward, and love of, country. And also a community of remarkable empathy for all sentient beings, i.e. kindness.

Keeping that empathy in mind, I',m hoping we don't draw a circle that excludes any ethnic, geographical, group.

When the Civil Rights movement began in the 1960s, Southerners were the only acceptable viliains on television. When there was a (usually fat) Southern sheriff on television, what was he going to do? Kick a dog, and wrongly arrest an African American. I'm not saying this sort of behavior wasn't true in many cases. But I have seen news from the NYT (which was a real newspaper back then) depicting all my geographic cohorts as under-educated cretins. That is hard to take.

We are on the edge of a turning, as many here have posted. Let us not push any reformed former Bush voter away, by too stridently or unkindly shouting, "I told you so."

There is a great picture from Le Monde on Truthout's splash page. Just warmed my heart ...

http://www.truthout.org/

Yesterday there were the anti-war assemblies here and in Europe, Eric was freed from pain and suffering and, at 11:08:57 local time, an earthquake struck in northern Maine. Serendipitous? I wonder.

Oops. Sorry, I meant 'Coincidence?'

Beverly,

Galloway has (noon day chart)Mercury in Leo conjunct the Sun, which is, in turn, conjunct Pluto on Leo. A lot of communicative power there. Sun is in it's own sign. Pretty expressive. This trines the natal Neptune in Libra. He will weave a beguiling tapestry as if he were on the stage. Also, he could lie a bit or more than a bit.
The noon day chart seems to work since it has Venus in Libra (quite strong) in the 12th which would confirm his extra marital albeit secret "love" affairs. That would also give him a Neptune on the ascendent which would make him prone to, among other things, toxic allergies and alcoholism which he seems to have decided not to get into. Maybe he is in recovery and therefore can help other members of Parliament.
If he was educated in British Schools he has an automatically greater command of the English Language than most Americans. They really do read their classics, their poets and their Shakespeare.

je, I hope you see this. I don't know any other way to communicate. I did receive your email and tried to respond but your webtv keeps bouncing me back. Sorry

Jo is traveling in Europe, a lifelong dream of hers and it will be a few weeks before she returns.

Pat Q.

Thoughts

Condolence
Sorrow
Comfort
Strength
Acceptance
Peace
Love

Mine Are With You

Dearest Pat QofP,

There are no words... the loss of a child... it's not the 'traditional' way, is it? To survive your child... you gave much to him on his journey, as I am sure he did for you also. I am glad that you had an opportunity to have closure with him... your vision of the little laughing boy in the striped t-shirt, how joyful!

May you move gently through the coming weeks... there is much love and support here in cyberspace for you... you were so loving and sweet to share this experience with us... Dear, dear Pat --- I wish so I could reach across space and give you a big hug... Namaste

((((Pat QOP)))) It's so good that you saw the boy. It's good that he is free of his suffering body. It is good that he has had your love in his life here and that it is everlasting. You are good Pat, and I know you will be comforted for all the days of your life here on this earth. You are a lovely and genuine spirit and a gift to all of us.

Blessings be yours always.

I am fortunate indeed to be so surrounded by love. Thank you all for your kind support!
An earthquake 100 - 120 miles to the north of me!!!!!! At 11:08:57 pm! That is IMPRESSIVE! Jen was sitting there commnicating with her brother's spirit then!
Can you all help me figure out a better timeline, for Eric's death? The nurse marked it as 9:15 DST. I came onto the site saw the 29 II voc moon, clicked up the full thread, and there were only 2 posts after my earlier one. I answered Patricia's 1:19 am post ( 15 min.?) posted @ 2;05 am.........
How does that translate to DST in the eaastern time zone?
Is AW on GMT?
Garry,
My perception is that not so much that Eric had finished his mission here as; he was being recalled for a very important one.
Also there were bear tracks heading west, in the front yard...................today!
On that note I'm going to catch up on my sleep.
Will leave you with some good news.

400 show up for the pro-war rally in DC today!

WASHINGTON - Support for U.S. troops fighting abroad mixed with anger toward anti-war demonstrators at home as hundreds of people, far fewer than organizers had expected, rallied Sunday on the National Mall just a day after a massive protest against the war in Iraq.
http://www.davisenterprise.com/articles/2005/09/25/ap/headlines/d8crgmn84.txt
PQ

oh my. Pat QOP, my heart is with you, please feel free to use some of it's strength ifever you need to.

>>

Dear Pat QoP - My heart goes out to you; as a mother, there is no greater wrench than to have a child taken from you, taken from his own future with you and family. Your strength and wisdom throughout this ordeal has been extraordinary and Eric has been blessed with a most remarkable and loving mother in you - now and always.

Blessed be

Pat, I don't know what I can say except may God and his angels hold and keep you, Eric, and your family always.

In "Conversations with God," God tells Neal that the day you pass over is the Happiest Day of Your Life! I was reading that and told it to my aunt one evening and it turned out that she passed over the next day (we thought her chemo was going so well, too).

It's hard to let go of a beloved child. My mother lost my brother at age 6. I pray for Eric's easy passing and ascension into the light, and for you all to feel his love and let it soften your grieving. I admire you so much, Pat. Your belief is so strong and you have obviously prepared for this. Don't be afraid to grieve, though, as that is so much a part of nature.

Me and my family send our love to you, and many, many warm hugs,
Sharon

Pat QOP,
Yes, AW is on Greenwich time. There is a 5 hour difference between Greenwich and us. Britain is ahead of us by that amount. Subtract 5 hours from 2:05 am GMT. Around 9:05 pm our time on the east coast. 9:15 pm our time would be 2:15 am the next morning in Britain.
Both Britain and the US are on a Daylight Savings time...so the hours of difference are still 5.

I hope this helps.

Sleep, dear Pat, sleep. Rest. WE will be sending you white light while you sleep.

Pat QOP, I am so sorry to hear of your loss. God bless you!
Beasly, Thank you so much for the info on Galloway. Your comments are very interesting. He is not a recovering alchoholic though, because he said he never touches the stuff and never has but has seen the destruction it has wrought in other's lives, particularly MP's who he does try to help according to one of the interviews.
And Pat QOP: thanks for posting on the White House aide connection to Abermoff. I was going to do it Saturday, but ran out of time, and feel it is very, very important. I hope they keep going until it reaches right to the top.

The headline on "The Grand Rapids Press" today
reads "WISTLEBLOWER - Bush Wore Faulty Bulletproof Vest" -- Amazing! He contends the vests were defective with the knowledge of the company officials. Lawsuits are in on-going process.

Oh Pat QOP, I don't have the words:

Here's a prayer for you and yours:

I Said A Prayer For You Today

I said a prayer for you today,

And know God must have heard.

I felt the answer in my heart

Although He spoke no word.

I didn't ask for wealth or fame,

I knew you wouldn't mind.

I asked Him to send treasures

Of a far more lasting kind.

I asked that He'd be near you

At the start of each new day,

To grant you health and blessings

And friends to share your way.

I asked for happiness for you

In all things great and small,

But it was for His loving care

I prayed the most of all.

Author Unknown

Nice blog.I like this.
Nick
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