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Introduction to Vedic Astrology

I would like to introduce you to Gary Gomes a well known lecturer, teacher and writer of Vedic Astrology. For the next 5 weeks I will be featuring one of Gary's tutorials in Vedic Astrology.

Western and Eastern Astrology is a vast subject, taking years of study to understand the complexity, richness and vast landscape Astrology covers in knowing the past, to better understand the present and move into the future. Knowing a little Vedic Astrology has been of great help to me, particularly in predictions.

Before I move to the rest of Gary's article, I would like to share something with you that Vis sent me today regarding Katrina. I thought it to be brilliant insight

"You recall how I did all that work on the TNO's, and especially Varuna? Well, Varuna, in US history, was a ship used in the Civil War, it went down in New Orleans, sunk by the South. I've always remembered that, because Varuna is atop Bush's chart, and it's what he'll be remembered for, above and beyond 9/11 or Iraq."

Now on with Gary's Vedic introduction, it's quite long and much to digest, but I promise you will enjoy it on your Astrological Journey.

Jyotish is called a Vedanga or a limb of the Vedas

There are six Angas or explanatory limbs, to the Vedas: the siksha and vyakarana of Panini, the chhandas of Pingalacharya, the nirukta of Yaksha, the Jyotisha of Garga, and the Kalpas (srauta, grihya, dharma and sulba) belonging to the authorship of various rishis.

Siksha is knowledge of phonetics. Siksha deals with pronunciation and accent. The text of the Vedas is arranged in various forms or Pathas. The pada-patha gives each word its separate form. The Krama-patha connects the word in pairs.

Vyakarana is Sanskrit grammar. Panini’s books are most famous. Without knowledge of Vyakarana, you cannot understand the Vedas.
Chhandas is meter dealing with prosody.
Nirukta is philology or etymology.
Jyotisha is astronomy and astrology. It deals with the movements of the heavenly bodies, planets, etc., and their influence in human affairs.
Kalpa is the method of ritual. The Srauta sutras which explain the ritual of sacrifices belong to Kalpa. The Sulba Sutras, which treat of the measurements which are necessary for laying out the sacrificial areas, also belong to Kalpa. The Grihya Sutras which concern domestic life, and the Dharma Sutras which deal with ethics, customs and laws, also belong to kalpa.


SOME TYPES OF VEDIC ASTROLOGY

There are many types of Vedic astrology systems being practiced today. The following is an overview of the variety of the systems that are covered under the broad cover of Vedic-Hindu astrology.

PARASARI Astrology -- This is the predominant form of astrology practiced in India and is the most prevalent form practiced in the United States, by far. The major text in this tradition is the Brihat Parasara Hora Sastra which is considered the Bible of Vedic Astrology. The Brihat Parasara Hora Sastra is an encyclopedic collection of astrological techniques, many of which are only sparsely used or investigated by many contemporary astrologers. The other major reference texts in this tradition are Phaladeepika by Mantreswara; the Brihat Jataka (curious collection which seems very much influenced by Greek astrology) by Varaha Mihira; the Jataka Parijata (a compendium of collected knowledge from various sources); the Uttara Kalamrita by Kalidas -- a little gem of astrological knowledge which contains a wealth of astrological gems; and the Saravali. These texts are the backbone of Jyotish. The problem with many of these texts is that the translations of many of these texts have been relatively disorganized -- many astrology students have found the experience of approaching these texts very daunting because the technique are often presented in a very random fashion. In my opinion, it is extremely important for the student to start to familiarize him or herself with these texts, primarily for the purpose of getting closer to the source Perhaps, as some have insisted, these techniques were not meant to be studied without the aid of a Guru. However, this belies the number of successful and accurate astrologers who are able to utilize Jyotish techniques successfully without a Jyotish Guru. This does not mean that I downgrade the importance of learning from those who have come before us, but I think that the Jyotir Vidya reveals itself to the sincere soul. Jyotish has rules, of that there is no doubt, but after the rules are learned, creativity can be introduced, and tested. I have seen quite a few eminent teachers disagree with each other. Every teacher has something of value to teach us. But keep in mind that the most important teacher is the Ishta Devata -- the teacher inside.

JAIMINI Astrology

Jaimini astrology is a fascinating system of Vedic Astrology which has NO parallels in the West. In many ways its strikes me as a more thoroughly integrated system than the Parasara Vimshottri dasa system taught to most beginning Jyotishis (and from which many astrologers believe it originally It also strikes me as being a more forgiving of birth time inaccuracies, and easier to learn, than Parasari astrology. The reason that it is not taught more often is that the system is not even that well understood by many Indians, and it does require some familiarity with the Parasara system of astrology in order for full understanding. Jaimini has several unique qualities which reveal at a glance those things which require a great deal of investigation using Parasara astrology, especially when considering spiritual potential in the chart. Jaimini uses sign dasas (periods of our lives which are under the influence of signs) rather than planetary dasas. So when one is going through a dasa the individual is not only influenced by the sign, but also the planets in the signs as well. There are certain idiosyncrasies within this system, and it is, as yet, rather incompletely understood in the West. Indeed, even in India. It is thought that there exist some million Sanskrit slokas, 20,000 translated into Indian languages and about (optimistically) a little more than 5,000 Sanskrit Slokas translated into English. Of the 20,000 Sanskrit slokas which are devoted to Jaimini, there are only about 500 translated into English, so vast stores of existing knowledge have not been translated nor interpreted. Large parts of Jyotish are not written, but are passed along orally, and significant interpretational clues are contained in other holy literature, including the Puranas, the Gita, and the Upanishads. But even in its incomplete state, it is extremely powerful when used properly. Please note that there are currently major differences of opinion regarding Jaimini indicators and how to calculate mahadasas; try to learn the shells of the systems and then reach your own conclusions regarding which of he systems seems more correct for you.

TAJIKA Astrology -

This is also referred to as Varshaphal, or “the fruits of the year”. This system, practiced extensively in Northern India (and showing a certain interesting similarity to the techniques of Arabian astrology), uses annual returns (the movement of the Sun to the same position it was when you were born) in order to fine tune predictions for the current year. There is also a rather interesting system of calculations called “sahams” which identify sensitive points on the horoscope in both the birth and annual charts. I have personally seen Tajika charts reveal extremely accurate predictions, particularly in health matters. Although not as complicated as Parasari astrology, it is extremely detailed, and the interpretation is less free flowing than in Parasari astrology. There is a precedent for using Parasari astrology principles in Tajika charts, and it would be interesting to see if the interpretational accuracy worked both ways -- in the interests of research.
BHRIGU ASTROLOGY -- The term Bhrigu astrology actually encompasses several discrete systems of astrology which co-exist in India. The most familiar type is the system of palm leafs which are kept in custodial capacity and passed down among families from generation to generation. This system was discussed in one of Swami Kriyananda’ s texts, and is supposed to give a reading for certain individuals destined to experience such readings. These palm leaf readings apparently developed when the astrologers of India began to get so proficient in Jyotish they were able to generate the charts of those not yet born. This is not so amazing when one realizes that the paths of the planets are set, so generating a chart becomes a mathematical process. Apparently these families pass down certain techniques for finding and interpreting charts (including the seemingly fantastic ability to generate names, which is actually a part of chart interpretation called namakaran. Although a bit beyond the scope of this text (I may include it in an intermediate level text), namakaran, or “making names” or identifying people and places by name from astrology charts is theoretically possible through the use of a standard natal chart, as all the Devanagari Sanskrit vowels and consonants are assigned to the nakshatras.

The second system referred to as a “Bhrigu technique” is the Nadi readings. Nadis are points on the Zodiac -- there are at least 1200 such points -- all possessing some character or trait. Obviously the use of such a technique requires an extremely accurate birth time, but Nadi techniques are said to produce incredibly accurate results. However, as in the palm leaves, there are several different Nadi traditions -- some through systems legendarily attributed to the Sun, others to the Moon (contained in the text Chandra Kala Nadi); some to Mars; and some to other planets.

A third set of techniques is standard astrological techniques pulled from Bhrigu astrology. There are certain techniques which are culled from the Bhrigu system which are unique and not in basic Parasara texts; this system is still being revealed at this time and it will probably be many generations before significant parts of this system are released, although there have been several interesting initial steps taken in this direction by Narendra Desai, Nalini Kanta Das (Tom Hopke), and R. Rao from India.

Pnchpakshi (five bird) This is a type of biorhythm system developed in India by Tamil saints, in which the various lunar mansions are assigned the qualities of birds in Vedic astrology. These birds (peacock, cock, vulture, owl, crow) are assigned to times of the day (which change during the days of the week) and individuals will either have good or bad days depending on the state of their “bird”. I have seen several analyses using the Panchpakshi system, and feel that this system should be used more extensively, particularly for the purpose of evaluating the ability of an individual to withstand illnesses and setbacks in life.

Planets in Vedic Astrology

Planets in Vedic / Hindu astrology are actual living intelligences. This is consistent with the legends of the Puranas, which describe the planets as DEVAS, or active entities who achieve immortality as guardians of the universe with the assistance of both Lord Shiva and Lord Vishnu, the two great representations of divinity in the Hindu religious tradition. The point is that these entities all have a function in the proper running of the universe. Their effects on us may be happy or sad, but the planets must (obviously) fulfill their functions for the universe to persist. Individual souls, when they again enter the realm of worldly existence, do so in order to experience difficulties or happiness which they have set up as a result of previous actions in previous lives. The basic purpose of life, put in simplistic terms, is to have experiences which will lead to the realization of desires. This may mean, for some, the manifestation of material prosperity, or the manifestation of strong duties and responsibility; or most effectual for happiness, the development of spiritual interests and activities, which ultimately leads the individual to freedom from the cycle of death and rebirth. The development of any of these interests does not imply superiority or inferiority of any soul. There are usually very strong reasons for why these individual experience different paths in life. The planets (Grahas) are THE SEIZERS of our minds and direct our attention to these activities. We have worked hard for the actions we encounter in this lifetime.

SURYA -- THE SUN:
The entity Surya (called the Sun in the West) has inspired its own cult in India. This cult apparently reached its peak in the thirteenth century and is reflected in the work done on the huge temple at Konark in India. (Interestingly enough, there was an iconoclastic movement at roughly the same period of time in Eastern Orthodox Church. This movement had a strong interest in astrology and destiny, smashing all of the saints and icons used by the church over the past thousand years. Neither movement lasted very long, but the coincidence -- perhaps there was an exchange of information -- is fascinating.

The Sun is the source of all energy in the solar system. Scientists have also apparently located a galactic Sun of enormous size located in the middle of the Milky Way. The energy which produces the raw material of life is enclosed in this sphere. The legends connected with Surya stress the tremendous energy of the creator of life’s energy.

The best-known Vedic myth regarding the Sun describes the Sun’s marriage to Samjna, the beautiful daughter of Tvashtr, the builder of the universe. Samjna is devoted to her husband, but finds the brilliance of the Sun too difficult to bear. As a result, she decides to get away and asks her handmaiden Chhaya (shadow), to take her place while she goes away. Samjna has already had children by Surya, and Chhaya, in her turn, had children by the Sun as well. This effectively ended the ruse. Samjna’s children noticed that Chhaya was treating her children more favorably than Samjna’s children. The Sun forced Chhaya to tell her that she was not his wife, and then went searching for his wife. He followed her and found her disguised as a mare, and order to get her back, the Sun changed himself into a horse as well, mated with her. The children which resulted from this union were the Ashwini Kumars, two gods of healing, which demonstrates the Sun’s ability to regenerate and heal after separation. Tvashtr also sheared off the excess energy of the Sun in order that Samjna could bear to be around the Sun.

The Sun actually functions as a relatively difficult planet in a person’s chart, causing great responsibilities to be borne by the individual during his periods. These periods will cause a certain intensity of to the individual which may result in increased status, ability to influence others, governmental favor, and ability to influence others if the Sun is strong in the chart. If the Sun is weak, the individual will feel like his energy is depleted, or self-confidence is low. The individual will also have problems with the government, bosses, his or her father, or any authority figure in his or her life.

There has recently been a great deal of emphasis on the theory of matriarchal civilization being the prevalent system prior to 2,000 BC. While this theory may be very appealing to contemporary society, there seems to be evidence that the dominant sex in society has changed position several times over the eons, and that the 30,000-year epoch of matrilineal dominance espoused by certain authors is a theory which has minimal evidence to support it. The preponderance of male solar deities in ancient religions seems to indicate that the sexes were relatively evenly considered in ancient religions.

One interesting attribute of the Sun in India is its alleged connection with certain really ancient traditions. The book Surya Siddhanta, an ancient astronomical/astrological text has been dated as far back as 1,000,000 BC by certain authorities! While this date can not be verified by current archaeological sources (and would certainly be disputed by current academic authorities), this
Theory implies that there are vast amounts of astrological knowledge which have been lost through the ages.

THE MOON (CHANDRA)
The Moon is perhaps the most important planet in conventional Hindu Astrology, although it is certainly the smallest body considered. In Hindu astrology, the Moon is considered to be male, and possesses twenty-seven (27) wives (the Nakshatras). It’s state of waxing and waning is caused by the curse of either Ganesh or Dacha (the father of the Moon’s 27 wives). The Moon is considered “lustful”, a condition often overlooked or minimized in Vedic Astrology texts. Lustful does not necessarily mean sensual. In popular culture the idea of lust is usually tied to sexual relationships, but there are many types of “lust”. There is lust for power, lust for money, lust for knowledge, and even lust for spiritual liberation. The Moon represents the entire set of thoughts and beliefs that our mind seeks. The mind is also more than thought -- it is also the medium for the spirits interaction with the phenomenal world (what we in the West call the “real” world). It also represents the mother for the individual, and many of us form our opinions and reactions to the world through our parents (particularly mother, because we were carried by her for quite a few months and because of traditional child rearing customs.)

The Moon changes signs every two and one half days. It changes nakshatras roughly once a day, and its waxing and waning states add another dimension of mutability to the moon. All of these states modify the interpretation of the Moon in Vedic / Hindu Astrology. The Moon is a public soft planet. In Jyotisha, there are very distinct friendships and animosities between different planets. Significantly, because of the rules which govern the determination of friendship and animosity, the Moon has NO enemies. It is the father of Mercury (more about this later) and is considered to be the planet connected with Soma, the nectar of immortality which is given to those who attain unity with “the reality” or “God”.

In the Brihat Parasara Hora Sastra, widely considered the most authoritative text on Jyotish, there are descriptions of the avatars (representations of divinity who descend from heaven in order to re-establish order and redirect human impulses from good to evil) and the various planets through which they descended to the material world. The manifestation of Vishnu who descended through the Moon was Krishna, whom some consider the greatest manifestation of divinity, and whom some consider to actually be the great personality of Godhead -- everything emanates from him. (Krishna’s birthday is celebrated when the Moon is in Taurus -- its exalted position -- in late August or early September.) We can accept Krishna as being all defining reality even in a metaphorical sense because of the Moon’s rulership of the mind...the filter through which all reality is understood by the individual.

MARS (MANGALA/ KUJA/ANGARIKA)
Mars is, according to the Brihat Parasara Hora Sastra, is the most malefic planet -- a role normally attributed to Saturn in other Vedic texts. It is with good reason that Mars assumes this status. Mars is a rapidly acting, rather violent planet. It is also in charge of logic, because logic is the intellectual weapon employed to win arguments. Mars is usually represented by several deities in Hindu mythology, including Shiva’s younger son Skanda (who also goes by the name of Kartikeya or Subramanya). This God is created in order to defeat demons who were in the process of destroying the world and who had made a deal that they could only be defeated by an infant child (There are many similar passages in Indian mythology).

This deity has the power to defeat enemies, but was not designed for human contact. Another representation of Mars (the incarnation of Vishnu through through the planet Mars) is Narasimha, the lion-headed deity of the Hindus. Narasimha was born, like Skanda to destroy a demon who had won the favor of Brahma or Shiva, and was so powerful he threatened the cosmic order. The demon had made a deal with God that he would not be destroyed by human or animal; could not be destroyed either indoor or outside; could not be killed by any weapon; and could not be destroyed in the day or the night. This seemed to cover all of the possibilities, and the demon set about taking over the world, confident in the knowledge that he could not be harmed. Eventually, he became so cruel that Vishnu, preserver of the universe, vowed to end the demon’s cruelty. A young child appeared to the demon, and started chanting a mantra on the threshold of a temple. Initially the demon thought nothing of this, but the demon started being irritated by the child’s singing. The child’s singing of the mantra continued all day and eventually, at duck, a wondrous being emerged from one of the temple pillars. Equipped with a lion’s head and claws, but with the body of a man, Narasimha emerged at the temple threshold, where the demon was lured. He was neither animal nor man; he emerged at dusk, which is neither day nor night; and he emerged at a temple threshold, neither indoors nor outdoors. Narasimha killed the demon with his claws (not using a weapon.) Vishnu as Narasimha fulfilled the criteria necessary for the being capable of destroying a powerful demon capable of perverting the universe. It is said that Yogis of certain sects grow beards and moustaches in order to look like Narasimha, and in order to give them the courage to defeat their own demons and (perhaps) save the world from demonic influences.

Hanuman the monkey general who served the role of Ram’s loyal supporter and servant in the epic tale the Ramayana, is also considered a manifestation of the planet Mars. He is totally devoted to Rama and Sita, Rama being a representation of the Sun and Sita being born of the earth. He is also superhuman; when Lakshmana, Rama’s brother, becomes ill, Hanuman is charged to find a certain herb which will cure him. Hanuman, uncertain as to the herb, lifted up the entire mountain and brought it to Lakshmana! Hanuman / Anjaneya also single-handedly laid waste to Sri Lanka, the home of the Rakshashas (the leader of whom, Ravana, was so powerful that he had all of the planets under his control, and could use them as steps to his home!) (See The Greatness of Saturn by Robert Svoboda). The strength and determination of Hanuman was enormous, and this represents the greatness of Mars at its best. If it has a goal and a service to pursue, it is a truly wonderful planet, capable of delivering us from our worst enemies.

This very courage and inability to compromise, however, are also drawbacks when it comes to interpersonal relations. Individuals who possess strong Mars in certain houses, especially in the 1st, 2nd, 4th, 7th, 8th and 12th houses in the chart, are, with certain exceptions, said to cause Kuja Dosha or “Mars Affliction”, a condition which either causes harm to the marriage partner or causes the individual to be attracted to individuals with whom he or she can not function for a very long period of time. There are cancellations of Kuja Dosha, said to occur when Mars is in the Ascendant in the signs of either Aquarius or Leo (according to B.V. Raman) or in Scorpio, Capricorn or Aries. These placements are supposed to nullify Kuja Dosha. In my opinion, they lessen but do not nullify Kuja Dosha. Similarly, Kuja Dosha is said to be inactive if the individual marries after the age of 28. In my experience, this is not true. However, Kuja Dosha is nullified if the marriage partner also possesses the affliction, in my experience. There are remedial measures for Kuja Dosha, and I believe these can work in certain cases as well. A section at the end of the book is devoted to remedial measures for planetary afflictions which fall outside the norm of most Vedic Astrology texts published in the United States.

In the Brihat Parasara Hora Sastra, Mars is considered the worst malefic, the planet most capable of producing inauspicious results. There are several possible reasons for this status. The predominant reasons is probably Mars’ status as the military planet, the planet which makes widows of women. Mars is the Commander in chief of the planetary army. As such, this planet requires that we make sacrifices for the higher good -- in some ways it acts as a metaphor for the realm of logic, because logic and rational thought often make us pursue paths which do not “feel” good. Yet logic and rationalism can be used for constructive purposes, but it must be used carefully. The significations of Mars can, like those of a knife of a knife, can be used to kill or to cure. Mars is an aggressive planet, and it requires action and provides energy wherever it is located in a planet. Mars forces things to happen, yet many things of our technological age would not be possible without Mars, and its energy also applies to things which are heated (this applies to cooked food as well as metals and manufactured goods.). Mars is also essential for success in surgery; for success in engineering; and for success (the most unusual and surprising signification of Mars for most individuals) in spiritual practices. The reason for these three levels and needs is that many of these things require dedication, self sacrifice, and, I would insist, application of intellect (yes, even for spiritual practices, for the truth of the matter is that when we face God, it must be, at least in certain yogic traditions, through the use of a determined mind, and it is Mars as a planet, which allows us to control our mind in order to retain self control.

Interestingly enough, military domination and imperialism are actually judged by other planets in combination or conjunction with Mars. Venus, Saturn and Jupiter are far more territorial planets than Mars is. Mars, may, in fact, eliminate lives, but it does its job because it must be done. This is what makes it such a powerful planet for spiritual activity (because it has little attachment to anything except doing the best job it can) but is also what makes it such a dangerous planet, BECAUSE IT DOES ITS JOB WITHOUT CONSCIENCE AND WITHOUT REGARD FOR THE CONSEQUENCES. Logic, following orders, and spiritual sadhana (practice) must be followed with intelligence and judgment, otherwise destruction and despair will follow. The perspective. Mars, according to K. N. Rao, a well-respected astrologer from India, represents the wife in a man’s chart within the Bhrigu system of astrology, and also represents the inclination to worship Vishnu (a great many people whom I have done charts for who worship Vishnu or who worship deities with Vishnu - like characteristics (including Christ and Buddha) and have seen a very strong Mars either in the first house or in or aspecting the ninth house. Mars also introduces disruptions and arguments in married life and in other interpersonal relationships, often forcing us to work alone, or, to take command and get the job done.


MERCURY – BUDHA


Mercury is the significator of intelligence in a chart; it is also considered a child of the Moon and the planet most easily influenced by association with other planets. Mercury, or Budha is also the planet which has the most contact or communication between the world of the living and that of the dead.

The myth of Mercury’s birth is one of the most fascinating in Jyotish. It seems that Jupiter (whom we will discuss next) was extremely ritualistic in his attentions to his wife. His wife, Tara, tired by lack of attention and Jupiter’s attention to ritual over passion, or (accounts differ) seduced by the beauty of the Moon (Soma), ran off or was abducted by the Moon. Jupiter (Guru) wanted his wife back and the resulting conflict caused a war which involved all of the planets and the Gods. Mars and the Sun sided with Jupiter, while Venus, Saturn and the Lunar Nodes sided with the Moon. The final outcome of this war was that Tara was reunited with her husband. However, when she returned to Jupiter, she was with child.

Jupiter demanded to know who the father of the child was. At first Tara claimed that the child was Jupiter’s baby, but after awhile she admitted that the child was really the Moon’s child. Jupiter at first did not want the baby, but after the child was born and Jupiter saw how smart and special the child was, he wished to raise the baby himself. Although eventually the Moon found out about Mercury’s birth, Mercury harbored animosity toward the Moon, perhaps because of the Moon’s abduction of his mother or perhaps because of Mercury’s association with Jupiter as his surrogate father. (Mercury, among all of the planets, is considered the most susceptible to the influence of others.) `0However, Mercury is a clever, rather non-traditional planet, so the best it can hope for in its relationship with Jupiter is neutrality and devotion to duty, not love or adoration. One key point is that Mercury is considered the young prince among the planets; it is always youthful in outlook and is the fastest moving of all planets (except for the Moon, its natural father); it rules the intellectual and “clever” parts of the mind, whereas the Moon rules the “common sense” parts of the mind, and Jupiter rules the orthodox, credentialed and socially recognized parts of the intellect. So, if the planet Mercury is intellect, the Moon is publicly recognized intelligence of common sense, and Jupiter is philosophical wisdom (which can, in some ways be limiting or stifling to more creative individuals -- hence Tara’s involvement with the Moon.) Mercury has the benefit of both parentages and has the benefit of the knowledge of conventional wisdom and the wisdom of the masses, but is uncomfortable with either of these venues as its sole method of expression.

Among all of the planets, Mercury is the essential planet for learning. It is considered to be the planet which triggers astrological involvement, but it is also the major planet for self-inquiry and for the development of self-knowledge. It is also the planet that can be the most interfered with in this process, because of the fact that Mercury is very easily influenced by adjacent planets.

Among the planets, Mercury, perhaps has the widest range of rulerships, and is perhaps the most socially active of the planets. It is most often mentioned as the planet of Lord Vishnu, and Vishnu is famous for descending to the earth in the form of avatars or incarnations of the lord. so Mercury matches Vishnu’s rather protean form. It is a very flexible planet, and it has been said that Mercury and Mars (separately) in the second and twelfth houses of the astrological chart can give individuals proficiency in Hatha Yoga. Since Mercury is also a clever planet, in the same sign with Mars can, as has been observed by many Jyotishis, create the ability to manipulate words -- to lie, in other words -- and this combination can be found in the charts of many politicians.. The combination of Mercury with certain malefic planets (Mars, Mercury, Rahu, Ketu) can produce the ability to easily deceive individuals, while its association with benefics, particularly when with Venus, can give a very beneficial and sweet temperament.

Mercury, in a bizarre twist, is also considered to be a significator for landed property in Bhrigu Astrology. The reason for this, is that Mercury is considered to be a representation of Vishnu himself, who is the ruler of the universe. Mars, usually indicated as the significator of land, is a child of the earth. How can the son tell the mother what to do? But Vishnu, as lord of the earth, has the power to increase land and property, for all the world responds to the commands of Vishnu.

Jupiter/Guru

Jupiter is often lauded as being the best planet in Hindu astrology, praised for its overwhelming beneficence. Although Jupiter is a very generous planet most of the time, there are sometimes circumstances in which it can be a very detrimental influence in a chart. Usually, this occurs when Jupiter owns malefic houses or is transiting over difficult houses. Jupiter essentially rules luck, and the times when Jupiter withdraws its support can be truly devastating. When this massive planet provides support, its results are usually overwhelmingly good and it seems that one has stepped into a cornucopia.

Jupiter is also known as the Guru planet, the teacher, the remover of obstacles. He rules optimism, happiness, benevolence, and good judgment. The major gifts that Jupiter provides in my humble opinion, are wisdom, generosity, and optimism. The places where Jupiter can be obstructive or difficult are in its extreme adherence to tradition (one of the reasons given for Tara’s elopement with the moon, and from what I have seen, a resistance to any thing which has the appearance of unorthodoxy).

Over the past several years, I have read and heard an extraordinary amount of information about the benevolence of Jupiter, but this is an over-simplification that must be treated with extreme caution when interpreting a chart. I have seen cases in which Jupiter periods have, for certain individuals, caused the onset of cancer and even death! Jupiter, much like any planet, has its detrimental side.

On the positive side, Jupiter as a planet is usually extremely lucky, and its presence in the first, fourth, seventh, and tenth house acts very much like a guardian angel protecting the entire chart. It usually promotes great benefit to the house it occupies. Even when in its debilitation sign of Capricorn, it can give popularity and money, but usually the placement of Jupiter in Capricorn is detrimental for spousal happiness, luck, optimism, and good judgment.

Also, even in periods during which Jupiter has caused a great deal of distress, the trials of Jupiter (And there are some) usually produce a philosophical resignation that what is happening will ultimately benefit the individual (this is quite unlike the way we usually react to the trials of Saturn or the North Node -- see the following section). Jupiter is a popular planet, and a great some of its worst attributes are the fact that its truisms are so conventional, that they bore us. Jupiter is also an expansive planet. Placed in or aspecting the first house, it produces optimism, association with conventional wisdom and success, a strong philosophical and traditional nature, and being well liked. It can also produce over weight in this position. (all of the benefic planets will produce some weight, but Jupiter is the heaviest.).

Jupiter is called Guru, which I have seen translated as either “heavy” or “the dispeller of darkness”. It radiates more heat than it reflects, in keeping with the theory that it is a failed second star in our solar system.

When Jupiter is exalted in Cancer, those possessing this placement have extremely strong ethics, are clever in work, and will generally give good and sound advice. Jupiter in Aquarius is also considered a fine placement, producing a very strong philosophical nature and good friendships and similar associations. If Jupiter aspects or is in the same sign with any other planet, it greatly expands the size and power of that planet.

Jupiter is one of the indicators or the husband in a woman’s chart; it is also considered one of the most important indicators for children, and is one of , though not the only indicator, of spiritual matters, spiritual teachers, and association with traditional religious traditions. The Moon (Chandra) is very beneficial in combination with Jupiter, and Jupiter is thought to be too non-conformist or selfish when in the same sign with, or aspected by Rahu, the North Lunar Node.

The primary quality of Jupiter is “expansion”. This principle usually produces very good results, in that it expands the outlook of an individual. It also expands opportunities for growth and opportunities to make money. Jupiter in the sign Cancer because Cancer (called Karka in Sanskrit) is one of the best indicators for public acceptance and being the fourth house, is the natural significator of education, and the Moon (ruler of Cancer) is the natural indicator of public life. It likes Jupiter, because Jupiter gives good advice to the public and tempers the Moon’s (the public’s) excesses through the introduction of patriotism, public gatherings, and societal passages as a way of controlling and channeling the often emotionally unstable energy of the Moon into constructive channels. This character, the idea of good advice and judgment, is the real reason that Jupiter is such a powerful benefic. Its expansiveness, combined with its ability to give solutions to problems, gives Jupiter the power to eliminate problems and help individuals on their path to acceptable behavior and fulfillment.

VENUS -- THE GIVING BENEFIC

Venus (also called Sukra-- THE BRIGHT) is, in my humble opinion, the least well-understood planet in Vedic / Hindu Astrology. One of the reasons for the genesis of this opinion is Venus’s status of the guru of the Asuras -- the antigods or open opponents of dharma in Hindu mythology. This status is quite often not given the respect it deserves in many texts, and, of the popular Indian Jyotishis, only R. Santhanam seems to give Shukra his proper place. It is worth noting that, in Brihat Parasara Hora Sastra, Shukra (Venus) is given the status of being the best benefic--more capable of giving goof results than even the great benefic Jupiter. It is this status in this text, possibly the most respected Vedic Astrology text ever written, that we should consider when analyzing Venus’ function in a chart.

Venus’ primary function, much more so than the other less spiritual functions assigned to this planet, is as the primary provider of bliss and happiness, regardless of the means through which this status is obtained. It is the primary planet of priests of all religions. The incarnation of Vishnu through Venus is Parasurama, the Warrior Priest who reestablished the dominance of the Brahmin caste in India. Those of us in the West who view the Indian caste structure have little knowledge that caste was supposed to be originally determined by nature; only after it was institutionalized under Jupiter (family) and Saturn (tradition) did it actually start to be passed down within families, excluding others. The ascendancy of those who are intellectually gifted is the desire of Venus, for this should theoretically bring happiness to all, for a variety of reasons.

Venus is listed in various texts as being knowledgeable in the 64 arts. These are skills and abilities for every day living, including rituals. The Yajur Veda in under the domain of Venus. Also Venus is the only graha capable of bringing those dead back to life. In very simple terms, everything which can reproduce or regenerate itself is under the rulership of Venus. Semen,Ovas-- these two are the tools of immortality, for they allow DNA to replicate endlessly, giving us a form of immortality. Venus also has general rulership over the plant kingdom, which is extremely territorial, but which also has the ability to regenerate itself after long periods of dormancy--very much like Shukra’s experience in Shiva’s stomach. Shukra is actually beloved by all major sects, but is particularly strongly connected to Shiva.

It is also worth noting that Shukra’s function as a teacher applies to us all, for we are, by nature, Rakshasic—we have reincarnated, and have desires to fulfill. This is far more rakshasic than devic.

SATURN -- THE GIVER OF GRIEF

Saturn is perhaps the most feared planet in Indian astrology. It is, by definition, the weakest planet in Jyotish. Why then, all the paranoia connected with this planet? Primarily because, despite its weakness, it rules over misery, wasting away, hardship, poverty, privation, old age, and illness—pretty much everything we find unpleasant in life. Yet a strong Saturn has extremely good potential for power and authority. It is found to be very prominent in the charts of dictators and lawyers—those who deal with limitations and restrictions. The most interesting myth about Saturn connects to the birth of Ganesh. Parvati decides to show his new child to the world. Saturn declines, because he knows that he will destroy whatever he looks at. Parvati insists and Saturn’s gaze destroys the young child’s head. One of the gods (Shiva by some accounts, Vishnu by others) rushes out and finds the elephant’s head. This gives the child great wisdom and memory, and copious spiritual gifts. So Saturn’s gaze eliminates the first gifts, but also grants spiritual growth and development. Saturn’s placement in a chart indicates the major source of unhappiness in a person’s life, but promotes spiritual growth. Especially important are Saturn transits to the 12th, 1st and 2nd houses from the Moon, the 4th house from the Moon, and the 8th house from the Moon. Saturn aspects planets three, seven and ten signs away from it.

Saturn is, like most of the Vedic planets, capable of a wide range of significations, so it essential that anyone attempting to read Saturn look at its sign placement (it is exalted in Libra, and well placed in the two signs it owns (Capricorn and Aquarius). It is well placed in the third, sixth and eleventh houses of the chart. It is fallen in Aries and tends to become weak in this sign. But is that necessarily such a bad thing? Often you will notice that the more powerful Saturn becomes, for society as a whole, businesses and markets usually expand incredibly fast when Saturn is placed in Aries (Note: 1968-1970 and 1998-1970), but changes usually occur too fast and erratically to be sustained for long periods of time. And exalted or otherwise strong Saturn often produces economic constriction along with a consolidation of power (1981-1983, for example. Saturn also functions as a benefic for Libra, and Taurus rising, so it usually does well in either of these rising signs. It achieves maturity at age 34-36.

RAHU -- THE CAUSE OF DISSATISFACTION AND NON-CONFORMITY
(Acts like the lord of the sign in which it is placed, or planets in which it is conjunction)
The great serpent Vasuki was one of the demons called to churn the elixir of immortality in the Vedic myths. This churning of the ocean caused powerful poison to emerge—this was swallowed and stuck in Shiva’s throat. The second thing to emerge was the Goddess Lakshmi, (like Aphrodite); a very few legends indicate she was promised to Shiva (the liberator) but loved Vishnu (the preserver) and ended up with him. The vast majority of legends indicate that Vishnu was her first and only husband and love. The third thing to come out was the Amrita (the elixir of immortality.) In some ways this parallels the stations of life: from birth comes struggle, absorbed by meditation (Shiva), then prosperity and its maintenance (Lakshmi and Vishnu), then true joy and happiness (The Amrita) or union with God.

The elixir was to be drunk by the gods, and the demons, although their physical might was needed to extract the elixir, were not to receive this. The consensus seems to be that they were too powerful to share this secret with, and the Gods would lose their only advantage in the great war between order and chaos. So the demons were given alcohol—but Vasuki saw that something was wrong, disguised himself as a god and drank the elixir. The Sun and the Moon saw that something was wrong and exposed the demon. As soon as this was noticed, Vishnu took out his discus and chopped the head of the demon off—but the demon had already received the gift of immortality and lived, as did the lower body, Ketu.

Needless to say, someone who is missing their body will automatically be rather unhappy and although immortal like the other gods (the Grahas or planets) will be seeking vengeance, particularly upon the entities that exposed it—namely the Sun and the Moon. Because of this need for vengeance, Rahu regularly stalks the Sun and the Moon and swallows them. Rahu wants and cannot absorb what is has, so along with its demonic energy, it rarely gets what it wants, or cannot hold onto it. Also, as a non-material Graha, it has no substance, so it acts like a ghost. Reflecting the fact that Rahu has this ghostly attribute, what comes during its dasa or sub-period it tough to hold onto—also it encourages people to get interested in occultism or even unhealthy pursuits. This attribute of Rahu can also cause a great deal of frustration, because Rahu is never satisfied, and it likes to be in control. So when Rahu activates in a chart, it can cause all sorts of bad actions. This is what causes Rahu’s intense discomfort. Rahu, like its shadow status indicates, has been shown as being exalted in Taurus, Gemini and sometimes Scorpio; it can also be considered debilitated in Sagittarius, Scorpio and Taurus. Its own sign is Aquarius.

Rahu also rules poison, demonic possession, witchcraft, affliction by ghost, foreigners, engineering, air travel and the unusual or exotic. It achieves maturity when one is 41 years old. Rahu is also the primary indicator of cancer and it acts like the planet that rules the sign in which it is placed.

KETU -- THE UNKNOWN, THE THIEF
The lower half of the demon that swallowed the elixir of immortality, Ketu developed a snakehead after it separated from its birth head and was raised by a sage. Since Ketu does not have a head, it is the natural indicator of liberation and its direction is heaven ward. Its maturity is between the ages of 48 and 52. Ketu has a serpent’s tail and a snake’s head.

On the negative side, Ketu has very little interest in the material world, and being the lower part of a demon, the planet has little interest in preservation and can be quite destructive. It is said to be quite a bit like Mars, and is part (like Rahu) of the planetary army—so it can stand for anonymity and obscurity. It is also a thief and steals away material possessions in order to increase interest in spirituality. People with strong Ketu can be prone to depression, but are very psychic and sensitive and have a knack for stripping down to the details of any situation very quickly. It can, however, cause obsession, compulsive and erratic behavior. It can cause accidents, but also sudden elevations in position (President Carter’s and Princess Diana’s charts are excellent examples) but Ketu is not a high status planet and can expose people to fall from grace. It can also cause illnesses that are tough to diagnose, like viruses.

Planets symbolise components of the Self. Everyone has these components. The various placements of the planets in the signs and in the houses make create human diversities. The meaning of the planets in Western and Indian astrology differs quite a lot.
This is especially true for the northern and southern Nodes (Dragon's Head and Dragon's Tail). We call the northern Node is Rahu and the southern Node Ketu.
Another difference between Indian and Western astrology is that there are but few Indian astrologers who work with the relatively recently discovered planets Uranus, Neptune and Pluto. We will not discuss these three planets in the following paragraph. However, we will give Rahu en Ketu special attention. Where the Indian interpretation of a planet differs from that in Western astrology, it will be emphasised in heavy printing.

PLANETARY DEFINITIONS

SUN: The Inner Light, cosmic intelligence, consciousness, life and love, the father, power and authority.
Darshan: Vedanta Yoga: Karma and Gnana
MOON: The mother, the past, the mind, daily communication, how we receive, feelings and emotions.

MERCURY: Objective intellect and differentiation, humour, writing, education, ideas, commerce, mental flexibility, travelling short distances.
Darshan: Vaisheshika Yoga: Gnana /Atharva Veda

VENUS: Beauty, refinement, charisma, good taste, love, marriage, sexuality, enjoyment of the good things in life, riches, the marriage partner in a man's horoscope.
Darshan: Purva Mimamsa / Rituals Yajur Veda

MARS: Energy, potency and sexual passion, competitive attitude, sport, muscles, accidents, brothers and sisters, technical insight, action.
Darshan: Nyaya Yoga: Karma/Bhakti/Hatha Sama Veda

JUPITER: The guru or spiritual teacher planet, insight into the workings of the cosmos, creativity, luck, our religious principals, pleasure, party-time, children, the marriage partner in a female horoscope

Darshan: Uttara Mimamsa Yoga: Raj Yoga Rik/Rig Veda.

SATURN: Longevity, limitations, discipline, adversity, delays, melancholia and depression, fears, reserves, material values, concentration, ascetic demeanour, hard work.

RAHU/KETU: In Western astrology the dragon's head or North Node (Rahu) has positive connotations and the dragon's tail or South Node (Ketu) has negative connotations.

Darshan: Depends on ruling planet. Ketu naturally inclines one to Vedanta, however and Gnana Yoga. Rahu will encourage the person to “sample” paths or will orient the individual to technology or less traditional forms of yoga such as meditation tapes, technology, etc.

In Indian astrology however, both nodes are regarded as 'shadow planets' with negative connotations. A Sun or Moon eclipse is only possible if either the Sun or the Moon is near the nodes. Indian astrology regards Rahu and Ketu as forces who have the power to obscure the Sun and the Moon, which is regarded with negativity (they can obscure the light symbolised by the Sun). Rahu is the head of a mythological dragon and Ketu the tail. This dragon has the capacity to be able to swallow the Sun and the Moon.
Some of the things attributed to RAHU are hypnotism, mass trends, insanity, and self-delusion. Rahu can offer (temporary) material success, which could be an explanation for the positive value given to this shadow planet in the Western astrology. These successes may include for instance, the power to influence others, but it does not lead to inner satisfaction. Rahu can bring psychic powers and mediumship, but also paranoia and negative influences from entities.
We can see Rahu at work in the lives of some film stars, for example. These are the film stars who become extremely wealthy, and have an extravagant lifestyle, but who end their lives in an environment of drugs and decay. Many politicians and leading figures in the business world are under the strong influence of Rahu. They still have to learn that power and material riches do not lead to inner contentment.

KETU is also difficult. Ketu is associated with doubt, isolation, and alienation. However, Ketu can also lead us to concentration on a spiritual level, and further to spiritual deliverance (moksha). Those who turn their backs on a normal daily lifestyle in order to follow the spiritual path are strongly influenced by Ketu. Although the problem here is, that Ketu can give occasion to illusions in spirituality. For instance, following a guru who is of the opinion that he does not have to practice that which he preaches.
The energy of Rahu is directed outwards (extrovert), but the energy of Ketu is directed inwards (introvert).


Sun exaltation 10º Aries fall 10º Libra
Moon exaltation 3º Taurus fall 3º Scorpio
Mercury exaltation 15º Virgo fall 15º Pisces
Venus exaltation 27º Pisces fall 27º Virgo
Mars exaltation 28º Capricorn fall 28º Cancer
Jupiter exaltation 5º Cancer fall 5º Capricorn
Saturn exaltation 20º Libra fall 20º Aries
Rahu exaltation in Taurus/Gemini fall in Scorpio
Ketu exaltation in Scorpio/Sagittarius fall in Taurus

Planets are strong when they are placed in the sign or signs, which they rule. All the planets, with the exception of the Sun and the Moon, rule over two signs. This means that certain planets feel naturally at home in certain signs. The signs represent forces, which are similar to those of the planets who rule them. A planet feels very much at home when it is placed in its own sign, because both energy fields are similar and therefore work well together.

DIAGRAM 3: RULERSHIP

Sun rules Leo
Moon rules Cancer
Mercury rules Gemini and Virgo
Venus rules Taurus and Libra
Mars rules Aries and Scorpio
Jupiter rules Sagittarius and Pisces
Saturn rules Aquarius and Capricorn
Rahu Aquarius/Gemini
Ketu Pisces/some texts say Leo or Cancer
MOOLATRIKONA SIGNS
A moolatrikona sign is a sign which makes a planet especially powerful when it is placed there. Mula means root and trikona means triangle. In general, the moolatrikona sign is the positive sign (fire- or air sign) ruled by a certain planet. Only the Moon and Mercury are exceptions to the rule. The general opinion here being that the energy from a planet works better in its own positive (fire or air) sign than in its own negative (water or earth) sign.

DIAGRAM 4: MOOLATRIKONA SIGNS OF THE PLANETS

Sun Leo
Moon Taurus
Mercury Virgo
Venus Libra
Mars Aries
Jupiter Sagittarius
Saturn Aquarius


The Rashis
Aries/ Mesha
Taurus/VRISCHABHA
Gemini/MITHUNA
Cancer/Karka
Leo/Simha
Virgo/Kanya
Libra/Thula
Scorpio/Vrischika
Sagittarius/Dhanus
Capricorn/Makar
Aquarius/Kumbha
Pisces/ Meena

3.1 THE SIGNS
Signs are symbols of the HOW. A planet in a certain sign will give you certain information as to HOW that planet functions. For example: the Moon (symbolising the mind) in Taurus means that the person has a stable mind, because this is a characteristic accorded to Taurus.

ARIES: The first impulse, impulsive, headstrong, enterprising, man of action.

TAURUS: Stable and trustworthy, solid, steadfast, enjoys the good things of life.

GEMINI: Flexible, communicative, inquisitive, and sometimes restless.

CANCER: Sensitive, home loving, warm, sometimes a little shy.

LEO: Proud, likes to be the centre of attention, magnanimous, commanding.

VIRGO: Critical, precise, modest, helpful, and diligent.

LIBRA: Values harmony and justice, romanticist, companionable, appreciates beautiful things.

SCORPIO: Intense, passionate, mysterious, preoccupied with transformation sometimes concerned with power.

SAGGITARIUS: Optimistic preoccupied with expansion, philosophical, sometimes dogmatic.

CAPRICORN: Conservative, hard worker, serious, progresses slowly.

AQUARIUS: Independent, somewhat eccentric, overflowing with ideas, inventive, congenial.

PISCES: Intuitive, lively fantasy, idealistic, very sensitive, sometimes unpractical, tendency to self-pity.

Aries, Leo and Sagittarius are FIRE signs. They are the signs of individuality and expression. In India, these signs are associated with raja yoga. This is royal yoga, and its aim is to control the creative powers that are present in human life.

Taurus, Virgo and Capricorn are EARTH signs. These are the practical signs, founded on matter. The type of yoga ascribed to the earth signs is karma yoga. Its aim is to teach mankind to place daily work and obligations in a spiritual context.

Gemini, Libra and Aquarius are AIR signs. These are the signs of human contact and communication. Jnana yoga is the type of yoga assigned here. This embraces understanding the complexities of the cosmic (by thinking and studying). Astrology is a form of jnana yoga.

Cancer, Scorpio and Pisces are WATER signs. Here the central theme is sensitivity. This is the realm of bhakti yoga. This consists of devotion and unity with the Divine in a devotional way (the Hare Krishna movement is an example of this).
It may be new for a Western astrologer that the signs are associated with different forms of yoga. In this context, yoga is seen as a process by which someone may meet the Divine. Various methods exist for this purpose some of which have absolutely nothing to do with physical exercises.


The Bhavas
First house /Tanu Bhava –House of the body and the mind; head. Aspect of life ruled: Dharma. Karaka: Sun
Second house/Dhana Bhava—House of the family and money; face. Artha. Karak: Jupiter
Third house / Sahaj Bhava—House of siblings; skills, desires, ambition; short trips; arms and hands. Kama: Karaka:Mars
Fourth house/ Sukha Bhava—House of family; legacy, learning; parents; vehicles; homes; education; status; inherited position; heart and lungs (shared with third house) Moksha Karaka: Moon dusthana house
Fifth house/Putra Bhava—House of children; intelligence; advice; creativity; past life credit; stomach. Dharma house. Karaka: Jupiter
Sixth house/Ari Bhava—enemies, illness, disease, relatives, obstacles, obstructions; lawsuits; problems that can be corrected over time, spiritual sadhana, intestines; large pets. Artha house. Karaka: Mars
Seventh house /Yuvati Bhava: Relationships; partnerships; long journey, desires ; area between the intestines and sexual organs.. Kama House: Karaka Venus
Eighth house / Randhra Bhava: Long term illness or problems; enemies; long term disabilities; legacies or inheritances; mangal sutra (marriage indicator); chronic problems; occult studies; research; sexual organs, excretory parts. Moksha House; Karaka; Saturn
Ninth house / Dharma Bhava—Father; higher education; spiritual teachers or gurus; long journeys; thighs. Dharma house; Indicator: Jupiter
Tenth house / Karma Bhava—Career, action in the world, spiritual pilgrimages, work; knees. Artha house; Karaka: Mercury (others: Saturn; Moon; Sun)
Eleventh house/ Labha Bhava-Gains, friend, desires, long-term aspirations and honors; part time jobs. Kama House; Karaka: Jupiter
Twelfth house / Vyaya Bhava—Losses, leaving the body; secret pleasures; pleasures of the bed (including sleep); small pets: Moksha house—Karaka: Saturn


GARY GOMES (GANGADHARA GIRISH / SWAMI KAMPANANDA) is a Hindu Astrologer (Jyotishi) based out of New Bedford and Malden, MA. Gary holds degrees in Sociology and Business Administration from the University of Massachusetts. He is an ordained Swami of the Temple of Kriya Yoga. He has studied Hindu Astrology with several prominent Indian and American astrologers, is certified to instruct Jyotish (Hindu Astrology) by the American Council of Vedic Astrology, has organized an Institute for instruction in Jyotish (Vedic Astrology), and has done charts for thousands of individuals from different parts of the United States and the world. He is also a board member of the American Council of Vedic Astrology. He has also written for several international publications, including The Mountain Astrologer, The International Astrologer, Express Star Teller (Madras, India), Indigo (South Africa), the ACVA Journal, Gochara (Great Britain) and in publications in Australia and France. He has been a speaker at several international astrology conferences. He is also an Assistant Professor of Jyotisha (Hindu Astrology) at the Hindu University of America and is also a Reiki Master. He can be reached for personal, business, and marriage consultations by contacting: CRYSTAL EXPECTATIONS, 854 BROCK AVENUE, NEW BEDFORD, MA 02744, TELEPHONE: (508) 990-7898.



Sally Cheyne McDonald on Sep 10 | Link
Comments

Thank you Sally for hte great article. I really need to learn more about vedic astrology. I have a hard enough time learning our western astrology.

MSNBC has this great article titled " Watchmen stand vigil in city’s wealthiest homes:
Residents stay behind to protect mansions, luxury cars, other possessions"

While the city's poor had too leave and give up their homes and belongings, the wealthiest have been allowed to stay and protect their mansions. WOW, it there ever was an example of class and racial privilege then this is it. Sick, sick, sick.

Posted by: Travieso on September 10, 2005 09:40 AM

Thanks for this article, Sally. Haven't read it yet; I'm printing it -- 18 pages!! Like Travieso, I'd like to learn Western Astrology better, and am interested, too, in Vedic.

**************************************************
If I may beat a (hopefully) dead horse for a minute: yesterday in conversation about the people effected by Katrina, I said that many people throughout the area (incl. poor whites in MS & AL) hadn't seen any gov't help, and the person with whom I spoke said, "The Blacks are being treated worse."

I don't doubt that. But what does it mean? I would hope it doesn't mean "...so we don't care about the poor whites!" I'm seeing the last day or two that there are plenty of people choosing to not just ACKNOWLEDGE that yes, (oh, surprise!) race effects life in the USA, but to FOCUS on it to the apparent exclusion of all else. That's a mistake.

YES, historically, people of the white race have metaphorically sh** on everyone else. (and yes, Travieso is correct that the same is true within other races -- y'all's knowledge of history is a bit limited if you disagree) YES, the US has a grievous, despicable, racist past & present.

If you just want to bitch about that, bitch away. However, if you'd ever like the situation to SHIFT, you'd better figure out how to be more inclusive. The RIGHT WING is notorious in its success pitting people of different races against each other. Is that what you want to do too? Or would you prefer to find the common ground shared by, oh, let's say poor blacks and poor whites for starters, so that you can articulate it to THEM, and maybe influence a mending of the stereotypical rift between groups. Because as long as we're all fighting each other, we'll NEVER get it together to "Fight the man."

The fact that NOLA Blacks have it worse than MS Whites (and Blacks) does not negate the fact that the MS folks have it pretty f***ing bad. In my view, unless we can find it in our hearts to acknowledge and validate the suffering of ALL those effected - even regardless of econ class! - we're presenting a mirror image of the Divide and Conquer Right Wing.

And Jo, yes, I DID think that people making $10,000-$11,000/yr were poor. In my mind, owning property doesn't change that. I know poor Mexicans in Amarillo who own property. I know poor Whites in Toledo who own property. Have you ever seen the neighborhood of little white shacks on the edge of downtown Houston? Poor. There are even poor people here in the relatively expensive Front Range of Colorado who own property. And perhaps you didn't hear of the poor people in CT who are being kicked out of their homes? I'm gonna bite my tongue for now, but I was astonished that you branded as BIGOTS people who thought the folks without means to get out of NOLA were poor.

Posted by: Lori on September 10, 2005 01:58 PM

What a wonderful opportunity this is Sally! I have some familiarization of terms to work on, but I am so excited to have Verdic explained. I have always had such great respect for it's predictive qualities! I intend to print these words and keep them.

Thank you so much Garry, for your time and wisdom. Wonderful!

Posted by: Pat C on September 10, 2005 02:19 PM

Lori, the obvious pecking order differences between the Clinton administration and the Bush takeover are complete. If you recall, it was being made easier for people to get higher education until the neocons successfully removed all the progression that had taken place for Americans and much of the world. All too often, people live up or down to the expectations others have of them, and I think you are seeing it now. Peer pressure for better or worse is real among all creatures of this earth. Despots count on it.

WE are all poor minorities, old and unwanted, if we are not one of them. Get is straight earlier rather than later.

Posted by: Pat C on September 10, 2005 02:26 PM

I''m on my first cup of coffee, and I was not completely clear. I am speaking of the behavior of law enforcement primarily, along with the rest of humanity when I speak of peer pressure. It isn't hard to create storm troopers among the weak minded or week willed.

Posted by: Pat C on September 10, 2005 02:33 PM

I hope Sally doesn't mind me repeating something I posted a few months back. As I watch the events unfold in NOLA, I'm reminded of the following:

"Things are not always done in a nice way, also not always done in a nice way for a reason. Much Karma is released so that people may make rapid advancement. When so much karma is released in a short period of time, for so many, there are many things that do not appear to be good or right. Do not misunderstand, I am not for any kind of hurt or suffering, but when I look at it as an overall view and and overall picture and can see the advancement that has been made, then I can say that this was a quickening of many things.

It has been known for some time that as time is running out for many, as has been told. Also, realize that war does move a lot of people around that would not have been moved otherwise. Things must be done in your third-dimensional world as they can be done there, in keeping with your own ways to be done. Interference cannot be given. There is always something good that comes out, even of bad things. All is learning." -The Guardian I

My hearts go out to all who have been devastated by this storm. My hope is that something good will come out of this.

Posted by: abilene on September 10, 2005 02:56 PM

WOW!
Thanks for this article Sally/Gary--I'm going to reread it and digest it slowly over the next day or so as I've always been curious about the differences between Western and Vedic astrology.

Meanwhile, AW'ers, here's a MUST READ article from the Arctic Beacon about a former Green Beret who knew too much about the Kennedy assassination(and GHWB's involvement)........

http://www.arcticbeacon.com/articles/article/1518131/33218.htm

Posted by: Garry on September 10, 2005 03:12 PM

Lori you said:
'... person with whom I spoke said, "The Blacks are being treated worse."
I don't doubt that. But what does it mean? I would hope it doesn't mean "...so we don't care about the poor whites!" I'm seeing the last day or two that there are plenty of people choosing to not just ACKNOWLEDGE that yes, (oh, surprise!) race effects life in the USA, but to FOCUS on it to the apparent exclusion of all else. That's a mistake.'

Lori the problem in America is that we never want to "focus" on race in this country until we are put in a situation, like the aftermath of Katrina, where we can't turn away from it. We like the comfortable and false illusion of racial harmony and social progression. We as a country have never dealt with the issue of slavery. We have put this discussion off for over 150 years because we keep hoping it will go away. I know poor whites in the Gulf/Delta region suffered greatly from this trauma and lost much too. However, I truly believe as I have said many times, "If poor whites had been caught in the Dome/Convention Center after Katrina, federal response and aid wouldn't have been as slow in coming." Public and media outrage about the situation took about 3 days to develop. It's easier to feel compassion for people you can identify with.
This situation has forced us blacks, who don't live in the extreme poverty like many of those in the Dome, to confront the misery of our sisters and brothers and begin to mobilize to do something about it beyond this tragedy.

You're right, Lori, race still matters. To paraphrase Chris Rock, "with all of my money, there's not a poor white person in America who would exchange the priveledge of whiteness for my life as a black man."

Posted by: Concerned American on September 10, 2005 03:26 PM

I have never been a rich black man, but I have been a poor white single mother. Do you think Chris might like to trade?

Posted by: Pat C on September 10, 2005 03:31 PM

Lori,

I branded people who think because someone is black they are poor, bigots. Most of these people had jobs, some even owned their little homes... you are right they didn't have the resources to leave... they didn't have credit cards and cash, and they probably didn't have a car... but that doesn't make them "poor" --- which in the South translates to welfare parasites... in my neck of the woods a lot of black people own land, have a garden, fish... don't have or need a lot of land. But they take care of themselves, they don't need a handout. If we had a tornado come through and bring down their home, like everyone else, they would need a "hand up" --- that's my point, and I'm sorry I wasn't more clear.

My fundie sister sent me a piece of crap in my email saying that the reason for the suffering was not slow response by Bush but forty years of welfare. In other words, these people are begging for a gov't handout, according to her. Well, I told her what she could do with her email.

I think I know what the word "poor" translates to among bigots.

And NEO, I brought the info about what people think about the Neocon plans. That in no way means I think there plan will be successful or no.
However, the same strategy applied in Iraq is being used here. Megabucks is being spent for "hired guns" because a draft would anger the middle class... who, god forbid would have to send their children. They don't need "uniforms" to control us... all they need are guns, and they have plenty of those.

btw, concertino is going up in Mississippi, about sixty miles of it.

And on Thursday Bush issued a "proclamation" stating he was 'suspending' US Code # blah, blah because Katrina was a 'National Emergency' --- what he did was 'proclaim' that his buds don't have to pay workers the prevailing wage (they can pay min) for reconstruction in NOLA and elsewhere in the three state area. But what most folks don't hear is that he stated we are under a 'national emergency'... now I have asked other folks online for a legal interpretation of those words, and so far all I've gotten is a "don't worry about it." Well, I will worry about it. But I'm not going to be worrying about the fact that some folks think I don't know what 'poor' means or that I don't understand that the welfare state brought about the dislocation of hundreds of thousands of people from NOLA. Namaste

Posted by: Jo on September 10, 2005 04:18 PM

Sally,

Vedic astrology is interesting and I'm sure folks will be grateful you have brought it to this site.

Posted by: Jo on September 10, 2005 04:19 PM

I love it. Thanks Sally. I love the Indian culture, and plan on reading & reading this over & over.

Posted by: Peg on September 10, 2005 04:28 PM

SALLY,

Thank you for bringing this to us. I have been curious about Vedic astrology and for several years have been interested in having my chart read. However, I have not done so because I have yet to find someone who does Vedic without the “doom and gloom” language. It reminds me of the language in older astrology books.

When I have “worked” the planetary energies from the inside out, (psychologically, emotionally, spiritually) I have been able to change perceptions and beliefs, which has changed circumstances and situations. It seems to me this is how we can best use the cycles of change as opportunities. There is a range of possibilities when planetary energies interact. But, in situations, where my first impress was a negative, fearful one, (like: oh my god, here comes Saturn!) it has been more difficult to reshape my perceptions because all the positives are affected by my initial fearful response and I’m trying to play catch up. It’s harder to work thru that way. (Kind of reminds me of President Bush and the Fed’s initial response to Katrina. We all still have the first impress, which was a negative one and it’s now in our subconscious. And no matter how much effort and help they give now, that first impress is still there for us to remember.)

Would you have Gary address this regarding Vedic astrology. Also any input you have.


AND, had an interesting thought yesterday about the Civil War and the Civil Rights movement. And how Katrina’s chart impacts those. Has anyone checked those?

Posted by: Jaycee on September 10, 2005 05:11 PM

I know this is off topic. I would like to post it for all the AWers. It is very moving, and quite interesting.

http://tinyurl.com/azdgd

A Lifeline Sent by Airwave
Two days after Katrina hit, New Orleans radio stations teamed up to bring needed news and familiar voices to those otherwise cut off.

I'm wondering if all this will change minds in Clear Channel. Astroligical changes?

Posted by: Pat C on September 10, 2005 05:29 PM

VARUNA
The universal encompasser, the allembracer. One of the oldest Vedic deities, a personification of the allinvesting sky, the maker and upholder of heaven and earth. He is often mentioned along with Mitra who was related with day while Varuna ruled over the night. In later times, he was the chief among the lower celestial deities, often identified with Adityas. He is the god of the seas and rivers, and rides a Makara (q.v.). His symbol is a fish. He is the regent of the western quarter and presides over Shatabhisag asterism (q.v.). He is said to be the son of Kardam and the father of Pushkara. In a way, he is said to be the father of Sage Vashishtha (q.v.) whom he taught the mysteries. He is gracious even to those who have committed sins and bestows them forgiveness and blesses them with spiritual guidance.

Sally, I don't get it. This Varuna sounds like a good guy. I don't think Shrub is a good guy.

P.S. I got the above definition on line from an explanation of the meanings of the Hindu gods and goddesses.

Posted by: Beasley on September 10, 2005 05:56 PM

2 years ago in my master gardner's class, there was a farming family who had immigrated from the Seattle area, priced out by the silicone valley sprawl. They were studying organic farming as it relates to the Maine climate, and their 8 yr old daughter also took the course as part of her home schooling.
He told me that actually martial law was never rescinded after the civil war. ( because of Lincoln's asassination?) I havn't felt compelled to fact find it, & now don't have time..............
Jo, How painful to have a fundie sister!
I had another encounter, with that Jewish teacher from North Jersey, who can afford a 2nd home in Maine. SHe has friends & relatives who are holacoust survivers, and believes that Murika is the "land of oppportunity". This morning I asked her if she still felt that way.......................Of course she does! WHen I continued talking, she waved me away with her hand, fluttered her hands near her ears, and said I don't want to talk about it. I got mad & said " No I won't stop talking, it' s my patriotic duty as an American citizen to keep talking, our country is being destroyed by this administration. Are dead bodies being eaten by alligators OK?" Is this opportunity?"
SHe practically ran from me to the safety of her SUV! So all the money spent on those holacoust museums is wasted? SO depressing...........I only hope that she is now retired & not still actively teaching kids!!!!!!!!
PQ

Posted by: Pat QOP on September 10, 2005 06:30 PM

Could Chertoff have acuired duel citizenship during the war 1967?
I dated a Phila. jewlery salesman ( in 1982) who had done just that!
( In solidarity!) He designed and helped construct a watercourse in the botanical gadens at TelAvive, and then came back to Phila.
Sally, the Vedic astrology looks interesting. I will have to print it out and save it for study later. Too busy to wrap my mind around it right now. I sat with Eric 'till 11 pm last night and will be doing so in the near future!
He recieved a letter today. Almost all the medical benefits that are providing care for him, through Mainecare, will terminate on Oct 14.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! because the Feds have not funded the state!!!!!!!!
He chose not to be tube fed when he came down here last week, and yesterday he was tugging at it trying to pull it out. I asked the night nurses if he had to be sent back to the hospital to have it removed, & boy did I get an extreme reaction! Not without a big legal battle said they!!!!!!!
PQ

Posted by: Pat QOP on September 10, 2005 06:42 PM

Thank you ever so much for the gift of your knowledge, Gary, and to you Sally, for bringing it to us.

Posted by: Laurie on September 10, 2005 07:03 PM

Concerned American, I understand and agree with all you say. I have a question for you: If you were given a choice between talking about the past/present of racial issues in the US --OR INSTEAD-- experiencing a genuine and lasting shift in attitudes/unconscious and conscious assumptions/actions, whereas treatment of all Americans would be generally fair, honest, decent, etc., which would you choose?

Posted by: Lori on September 10, 2005 07:07 PM

Poll: Your reaction to how Smirky "handled" LA/MS disaster.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9280375/site/newsweek/site/newsweek/

Posted by: shylurker on September 10, 2005 07:08 PM

I entirely agree with you Garry, regarding the
stealing of elections in 00 and 04. That's why my
blog refers to shrub as C-in-Thief. But this is my
reason to blame the voters here(and of course that
racist, egoistic rhenquist is responsible too, that's why he is good riddance as far as I'm concerned).Voters here must not have made both
elections so close to be a difference of 10 electoral votes OR 1 state difference in 00 and 04
Gore in 00 and Kerry in 04 must have won by atleast 20 to 50 electoral votes, so that the rogue rove, rogue jeb and rhenquist in 00 and corrupt repugs in office in OH in 04 could not have aided and abetted the clown thief in his
broad daylight heist of Oval office.

Posted by: Raj on September 10, 2005 07:15 PM

Pat QoP, good for you telling that woman! It's so odd, isn't it, you'd think people who'd experienced any kind of oppression, etc., in the past would IDENTIFY and EMPATHIZE, but not all do. Yeah, what's the point of remembering history if we pretend it can't/won't/doesn't happen today?

Aren't all Jews allowed to become citizens of Israel by virtue of being Jewish? I'd heard that somewhere.

And, Pat QoP, you and Eric are fully within your rights to accept or deny any medical care/treatment you wish to accept or deny. The nurses/hospital, etc., have no legal hold over you. Do you have a legal aid office that will send a letter to cease and desist or threaten to sue? Can you talk to hospice, see if they can locate a good doctor who does palliative care in the location where Eric is? Can you/do you want to bring him home, have the care happen there? It's all possible. www.hospicecare.com

Sorry, I suspect this post is overwhelming for you. Hospice might be able to help with those nasty nurses, too.

Posted by: Lori on September 10, 2005 07:17 PM

((((Pat QofP)))))

Posted by: Jo on September 10, 2005 07:20 PM

How low can they go?
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050910/pl_nm/contracts_dc_1

Posted by: shylurker on September 10, 2005 07:24 PM

Sally, thank you. And, Gary, thank you. This was/is a labor/thought intensive effort. By the time you have shared the coming segments, we'll all have a reference book!!!!! How incredible is that?

Shylurker, great link. From the beginning of this tragedy, i've suggested that this will become one large land grab, as have others.

One thing that needs to be discussed (regarding race) is that we are all black, all descendants of one Mother and she wasn't white. Had this knowledge based on scientific/genetic fact been widely and persistently proferred to the public, would we think ourselves so separate?

When discoveries, such as the preceeding are made, the Fifth Estate (tied to the prevailing temporal powers) sweeps them under the rug -- for a reason. By keeping us from realizing our Human commonalities, they keep us divided, and from SEEing exactly what we are being robbed of.

karen

Posted by: farrout on September 10, 2005 07:56 PM

Amen farrout.

Posted by: Pat C on September 10, 2005 08:24 PM

Thanks Sally for this veru educational tutorials
on Vedic astrology. I'm reviewing what I know on the subject. Can you give us Gary Gomes' Vedic astrology website, if he has one? By the way, when
you add 'vaar' to Mangal becomes Mangalvaar is Tuesday, Budha becomes Budhavaar is Wednesday, Guruvaar is Thursday, Saturn is Sani and Sanivaar
is Saturday(all these days are in Hindi).By the way Sun is also Ravi, so Ravivaar is Sunday. Just
thought I would add this tidbit to your interesting article.

Posted by: Raj on September 10, 2005 08:34 PM

Lori and Concerned American,

JoannaOregon and I just had a long discussion about race and racism in America and we could never agree. To be honest, I learned alot from Joanna, especially that the race question and racism means soemthing different to everyone. I am resigned to just think that it is such a huge and loaded topic that it can't be answered just in a messageboard.

I think that in regards to racism and class, Katrina will go into the history books and be researched for years to come. It's just so complex. In the short term, I can say that most definitely Katrina shows that the buskaviks failed in protecting all it's citizens and was negligent in its duties; which is enough of an impeachable offense.

For now, we can all say that Bush failed on some level and assuredly negligent.

Well, that's my two cents.

Posted by: Travieos on September 10, 2005 10:10 PM

Lori,
Thanks for the suggestions................we're already there...I havn't been posting details, because it's off topic and so much is happening otherwise. I really appreciate being kept up to date
The nurses aren't nasty. they're terrific! It was a humerous moment.
My friend ( a buddist/experienced hospice worker) has undertaken to do hospice work with Eric, right from the beginning. She has assumed the responsibility for his POA, etc.
Yesterday she fired the formal hospice outfit that was assigned by the nursing facility. They changed his pain meds all around with negative results! And they were generally insensitive to his emotional needs! I agreed with her, they were too bureaucratic right from the start. So the stalwart Tri Town Democrats group continues to oversee his needs, physical and spiritual!
They put him into palliative care several weeks ago at the hospital, when they sent him on to the first nursing home near Bangor, after the chemo was too harsh on him!
He won't linger much longer.
I have a strong feeling that there is an important assignment awaiting him on the other side.
Again I appreciate so much your concern.......it's not an easy time!!!!!
PQ

Posted by: Pat QOP on September 10, 2005 10:50 PM

Pat QOP

IF you need anything, even if it's just books to read while at the hospital with Eric, please use my email link below to contact me. My cousin has a life long illness and goes to the hospital about once a month. My aunt, his mother, says that she brings lots of books to pass the time while waiting for his treatments

I'M SERIOUS! If you need anything, books, stuff for a hobby like knitting, etc., please let me know.


Concerned American, in an earlier post you said that I must not know what it is like to be black in America. You know, that is so true. I teach Bilingual Pre-K and many of the evacuee children are starting to trickle into school. I think both the families and we are having a bit of a culture shock. I mean, they see everything in Spanish and English and the food is different.

I have a mixed class of some Spanish dominate and English dominate children so I really want some of their children in my class. Though I have allot of diversity in my class with anglo children and children from various parts of Latin-America, I would love to have my children (and me) experience African-Americans and what they have to offer.

Posted by: Pat QOP on September 10, 2005 11:06 PM

The above post is MY post. I think I started typing while the cursor was still in the NAME field. OOPS, sorry Pat. That last post was from me to you and concerned american. LOL

Posted by: Travieso on September 10, 2005 11:08 PM

Sally, thank you so much for posting the Vedic information. I have heard anecdotes of many Vedic predictions that were amazingly on target.

Got to say, though, fellow AWs, that everytime I think I'm getting a handle on astrology a whole library of previously unknown (to me) info swims into view. If it weren't so fascinating it would be disheartening.

On the mundane front, I visited Buzzflash today and found every headline waving a red flag that our nation has been stolen by the corporate fascists. What to do?

Since my Mercury is in the 10th in Aquarius sextile Jupiter in Sag it occurred to me to tell some jokes.

This joke is from the 1950s: At a grammar school up north (where there is no segregation) the teacher says to her class, "Any boy in this room has a chance to become president of the United States." A black kid says to the white kid across the aisle, "I'll sell you my chance for a quarter."

A joke from the 1970s: a patient in lying in his hospital bed, covered with bandages. His doctor says, "the bad news is that your insurance coverage has expired. The good news is that you are cured."

That's all for now.

Posted by: Barbara on September 10, 2005 11:10 PM

We could use no more endless discussions--for a long time--on women & "other color." We need a great big long detailed discussion on the "white" male... the herd of rogue elephants in the Living Room. Yea, verily... it'll be difficult with all his enablers... Mother Marys & Unca Toms... but it can be done. And once started, if we're lucky, it'll open up the plutonic Flood Leevees to Hell & the healing can REALLY begin.

For instance: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/09/AR2005090901930.html

Posted by: JoannaOregon on September 10, 2005 11:29 PM

Heheheh... I meant "We, the People!"

Posted by: JoannaOregon on September 10, 2005 11:39 PM

Joanna. I had a white male in my life who I loved beyond measure. My father. I had another one. My husband. I had even more, like my teachers, too countless to mention.

Being angry with the white male slows us up too. It's not whiteness or maleness that makes a bad person. It's entirely an individual case. And judgement of an entire social, racial, or ethnic group slows our evolution.

Posted by: jm on September 10, 2005 11:54 PM

Thank you, JM. I love you positive and heartfelt message. We need that show of love for everyone in out lives that are giving and as loving as I am sure your father and husband are.

Posted by: Travieso on September 11, 2005 12:00 AM

...and discussion without focusing on the enabler apologist. ;O)

Posted by: JoannaOregon on September 11, 2005 12:03 AM

Travieso,

I was lucky. My father was a kind, gentle man.

People must realize that the prejudice within the races and groups is just as great as among... light-skinned black against dark-skinned, Native American tribe to tribe, Northern light Eastern Indians against dark Southern ones. It's all-pervasive and the only antidote is recognizing everyone we encounter as a totally unique human being with a huge inner landscape to traverse, if we so choose.

Posted by: jm on September 11, 2005 12:08 AM

When the Baptists were in the minority in this country, they sent a delegation to Thomas Jefferson to seek Jefferson's assurance that minority religious groups would not be coerced by the new US government.

Jefferson responded with a letter citing his famous "wall of separation between Church and State."

Now that the Southern Baptist Convention is the most populous religious group in the country, they aren't so interested in "the wall" anymore. Instead they (or their leaders) would like the State to enforce their religious views on the rest of us.

Before the Jews gained a state in the mid-East, they simply wanted to live in liberty and peace wherever they were. That is still true of many. But there are also Israelis who are perfectly comfortable treating the Palestinians as badly as their ethnic group has been treated in the past.

The moral of this is that people are much more for freedom for minorities when they belong to the minority; and are all to ready to run roughshod over others when they belong to the majority--whatever it may be.

Nobility of mind consists of consciousness of brotherhood/sisterhood of all. True empathy.

Guess I'm just stating the obvious, but wanted to say it.

Posted by: Barbara on September 11, 2005 12:17 AM

In pure psychological, metaphysical terms any hatred we feel towards another is self hatred projected. Even if people are horrible it is still not a reason to hate. You can recognize the magnitude of crimes and do something about it all without hatred. Still, hate will occur naturally in all of us as part of the emotional pantheon, but awareness is the start. Hate is powerful and causes sickness if not kept in check.

The Pluto in Sagittarius lesson of prejudice will be hitting us hard for now. It is the time to look at it carefully, including a hard look at ourselves.

Posted by: jm on September 11, 2005 12:21 AM

Just had a thought/analogy pop into my head that might make a good visualization.......

imagine the toxic water/sludge currently in the low parts of NOLA as a mighty cleansing wave that will sweep away the current "regime" when it is removed
(with all due respect to the victims, of course)

Posted by: Garry on September 11, 2005 12:28 AM

"Hate" is a "word" much favored by bush supporters... & always projected on the "others" as: "the 'others' are hating us." In my personal activist work, I will focus on concrete behaviors... who is doing the mega-destructive behaviors... rather than focus on abstract classroom pseudo-sociology & psychology that actually muddles n' befuddles all real solution-based dialogue. ;O)

Posted by: JoannaOregon on September 11, 2005 12:56 AM

I've seen posts from some on this board elsewhere that are nearly as warm and fuzzy...

fine and good to talk about loving the white male but right now brothers and sisters he is beating the crap out of all of us. Wake up!

Blackwater Mercenaries are patrolling in New Orleans... how long before they'll be coming to your neighborhood!

Joanna, I'm gonna leave 'em with ya darlin' --- you've got more patience than I do...

"... Blackwater mercenaries are some of the most feared professional killers in the world and they are accustomed to operating without worry of legal consequences. Their presence on the streets of New Orleans should be a cause for serious concern for the remaining residents of the city and raises alarming questions about why the government would allow men trained to kill with impunity in places like Iraq and Afghanistan to operate here. Some of the men now patrolling the streets of New Orleans returned from Iraq as recently as 2 weeks ago."

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/9/10/15555/1458

Posted by: Jo on September 11, 2005 01:26 AM

edit:

"I've seen posts from some on this board elsewhere that are nearly as warm and fuzzy..."

I meant to say: NOT nearly as warm and fuzzy...

Posted by: Jo on September 11, 2005 01:28 AM

Oh,,, and I don't believe a savior ever made the trip the first time, and I sure don't think s/he has descended to post on this board...

Jo has left the building.

Posted by: Jo on September 11, 2005 01:30 AM

I note how republican behaviors are "finger-pointing" "blame-gaming"--the very behaviors they've accused OTHERS of doing resounding in their echo chambers--on the govenor of Louisiana & NOLA mayor, but somehow have missed republican govenors of Alabama & Mississippi... states which also have 1000s of suffering citizens & terrible disaster response. But these govenors were completely left out of said "finger-pointing" & "blame-gaming." Wonder why that is?!? Oh, well...

Posted by: JoannaOregon on September 11, 2005 01:37 AM

I wonder if Blackwater is a main reason they wanted the press gone.

Posted by: Pat C on September 11, 2005 01:44 AM

Yea, verily, dear Jo... it sometimes is so very hard to get an honest discussion going, ain't it... ;O)

Sorry, Miss Sally, about the postings off your initial subject of Vedic Astrology. My mama always said if you can't say anything about the subject, don't say anything at all. Well... she didn't really. ;O)

Posted by: JoannaOregon on September 11, 2005 01:45 AM

well, actually, in seeing people as male/ female we perpetuate the shadow and black/ white perspective that kills any sense of understanding, learning, and compassion. As we ALL have been either male OR female souls, it is better to think in terms of energies. Masculine/ feminine energies each have their positive & negative qualities, just as astrological signs do. But you all know that, right? My guess is that since Mars is so predominate in our collective experience now, we are witnessing how people choose to manifest it's influence.

Posted by: Peg on September 11, 2005 01:48 AM

...but it is good to remember that even the Dalai Lama had an army.

Posted by: Pat C on September 11, 2005 01:53 AM

Like I said, I'm looking at concrete behaviors & who's doing them... genocide... stuff like that. And they will continue until we have honest discussion & "seeing." "Spiritual or Metaphysical Beliefs"--not facts--are just not very interesting right now, & serve, imo, nothing but The Muddles, the Non-Solutions, "The Lazy," "The Fearful" & "The Propagandist." I don't know WHAT my mama would've said about that... but she's passed on anyway. Anyway, I'm off to do something concrete (like Jo, is leaving the building).

Posted by: JoannaOregon on September 11, 2005 02:03 AM

Any word about the Move On organized, camp on the mall in DC? Some NO survivors are there.............some planned to be there tomorrow in opposition to the Pentagon celebration, but came a day early.
I broke down & ordered dish TV today. WITH Cspan I & II.
That way I can get some work done while I see what is going on; and NOT tie up the phone.
Thanks for your kind offer Travieso, of books or knitting
supplies. Truth be known..I have The Nation, Black Dawn, Bright Day by Sunbear, Final Gifts by Callanan & Kelley, and
the Dell Horoscope Mag for Sept. in my handbag.....and I am too scattered to concentrate on reading. I can't click on your e-mail, my Mac isn't configured to make that work!
They doubled his morphine today, so he is sleeping more and they sent me home to get some rest. Home isn't an option for him.........he needs far too much skilled nursing care..and he's a gregarious Libra with all those pretty nurses attending to his every need!
Yes I saw that article about the Blackwater Mercenaries Jo, and was as alarmed as you.
I also saw that Gore removed 250 from Charity hospital on Sept 3 & 4, guess he finally got through with his chartered private plane. Again I say it's odd that the Dems are keeping so quiet.
And didn't Sen. Landrieu vote yes for Gonzalas, Chertoff, Nergraponte, & the bankruptcy bill??? I tried to look up past Sen Legislation, but couldn't find a chronilogical list & didn't know the numbers.
Also the Sen's. from Me. are singing a different tune here, since the Brunswick Naval Air Base is to be closed. Follow the base closings and see how well protected we are!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Another piece of the dismantling. Portsmouth Submarine base to stay open. How useful are submarines today???????????
PQ

Posted by: Pat QOP on September 11, 2005 02:11 AM

JM, I already tried to reason with Joannaoregon before. In fact, I will say that I will not be on this board for awhile. While the vast majority of the posters here are wonderful, loving people, I find a few, to be honest, that are "bullies".

Jm and Peg is right. If we really want to get to the heart of hatred, we have to look at the one's hating. They are the ones causing the problems since the hate is there feelings.

JoannaOregon, I wish you know ill will. In fact, I want to send you love and white light because I feel a deep sense of self-hatred and aggression in you as if you are ready to lash out at anyone who doesn't support you world view. This is the ego wanting to impose it's will on the world. You have been combative with not just me, but other posters and that is really sad - not just for us, but for you. I am a good person, and I'm sure deep inside you are too.

I'm sorry Joanna, I've seen enough hatred in the world, I can't do the same. It's just a horrible cycle that spirals down to destruction.

Joanna, truly love yourself not for any other reason but for the fact that you are a piece of the divine. Not for any other reason than the fact that you are experiencing divine love every day. These are not "warm fuzzies", this is a spiritual understanding of the total interconnectedness we have with everything and everyone.

Probably, you hate white men because you hate your own whiteness and your own "maleness" (or male characteristics). It's like the homphobic men who are themselves gay. They think if they hate gay men enough that they can distance themselves from their true homosexual nature.

Bye for about a month or so. Love and Piece to everyone. And PatQOP, the offer is still on so please email me if you need anything. I'M SERIOUS.

Posted by: Travieso on September 11, 2005 02:12 AM

Oh please....oy.

Posted by: Pat C on September 11, 2005 02:35 AM

Pat QOP,
I cannot get you out of my mind. Not that I want to...but (((((((Eric and You)))))) and more hugs.

OK all you loving people out there. I'm delighted that somebody out there is good and kind because I AM NOT. I DO hate. I DO project my darkness out there onto people I don't like. I DO, and I'm aware that I do it, and I feel better when I do it. The only thing I do not do is let it all hang out...rather I write nasty journal entries and sketch lightning bolts going up various body orfices (orofices? SP?! Aw, who knows...Webster, where's my Webster?)

You know, us nasty chart people like me, the ones who hate and project, could be useful to further the ends of Kali. Or the Furies, or even Zeus' lightening bolt.

I hate this government. I want very much to exact the most shameful kind of punishment upon them. Lie for lie exposed before the whole world. "Measure for Measure." I can get very creative thinking of phrases I would utter as Court High Judge when they are brought to trial.

It's a very, very good thing that I am not God.

Respectfully submitted and confessed by Nasty Chart.

Posted by: Beasley on September 11, 2005 02:49 AM

Ha, ha!, Beasley--maybe you are a "young soul". I sort of understand what an "old soul" is--have known some and profoundly respected them.

But I don't count myself among them. My unevolved self doesn't really see anything wrong with revenge, if it is equitable, and specific.

The BushCo's adherents' idea of revenge--"Some people from the mid-east attacked us 9/11, so we're going to kill and harm a lot of people somewhere in the general vicinity" is totally stupid and wrong, IMO. (And also foolishly gullible--since the people most involved in 9/11, the Saudis, are business partners of Dear Leader and allowed to do whatever with no reponse from US.)

But, got to tell you, I don't see anything at all wrong with tit for tat in response to those who clearly have harmed us--especially including our Enemies--Domestic.

Perhaps someday I'll know better, but that's my take on it this time around.

Posted by: Barbara on September 11, 2005 03:13 AM

Beasley,
Perhaps it's because an essance of Eric and me lingers in Princeton! He worked on those murals and we frequented that lunch room on the maine street, with the student's initials carved on the tables. I wore a ratty old fur coat like the heroine in The World of Henry Orient, & Eric wore a man's felt hat with a feather in it.

Have you tried vodooo dolls????? They might work.

I guess we all have to cope with these trying times to the best of our ability!
Here's the article about the Blackwaters!
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/091005A.shtml
PQ

Posted by: Pat QOP on September 11, 2005 03:34 AM

surprise, surprise---the levees may have been blown up:

http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/channel.cfm?channelid=2&contentid=2747

does anybody here believe ANYTHING this "administration" says anymore?

Posted by: Garry on September 11, 2005 03:50 AM

This regime is finished and it's not because of hate or revenge. It's because the time has come and we're getting ready to move on.

It's not some sort of soft nice something or other that sometimes causes people to abandon the use of hate.
In my case, I am very much aware of its power and am reluctant to use it. I don't want to hold it in me. I've found alternative ways to deal with my enemies at times and have felt the best when it happens this way.

People are free to feel what they want but the option of not using hate should be understood by those who do if we want to get along.
We all agree we want liberation from this government and we are still searching for the best means, although as I said, It looks like the end is here.

I'll give you an example of what I experienced. I hated screaming people who called themselves singers shrieking through the air waves and piercing my ears and whole body with pain. For years I fought this, complaining to the powers, crying, raging, everything. The screaming voices would not go away. The thing that finally worked was having my industrial strength ear plugs with me at all times and using them. At the same time working on perfecting my beautiful voice.

When I react with hatred I feel manipulated by the other and under control even more. My experience with this government has challenged me every day to improve myself and find the most effective way of handling this intensity without falling into their trap. They want most of all for us to fear and hate them. I refuse.

Posted by: jm on September 11, 2005 04:15 AM

JOANNA, JO, PATC, PATQOP....YOU GO GIRLS. It is interesting how people miss the whole f*** point of these discussions...and it is interesting that this board has also divided up into the realists and the .....well, lets just say, the people who can't get past their own personal histories. Having done that a few times myself (my dad was a Freemason, as were many men in my family, it was pretty common over the last 2 centuries) I got pretty upset that Freemasons (the founders of the country were mostly that, too) have becomed demonized. So I needed to get past MY own history too.

So ..... seems to me we have to take these things out of the persona realml....and Jo and JoannaO, you have been right on. WHO THE HELL DO WE THINK RUN THIS COUNTRY? WELL IT AIN'T POOR BLACKS, INDIANS AND HISPANICS, IS IT NOW? NO, IT IS WHITE RICH MEN FOR THE MOST PART; and not all rich white men are monsters at all, nor do I think Joanna said that (her shorthand for the despots in charge I believe), but these guys are definitly in the qualifying class. One thing I think is interesting is that the progenitors of these current richwhitemen (the older ones like Rummy) were born with Pluto in Cancer (the 'homeland') ....they came up with these plans (PNAC and the rightwing takeover of America). The younger plutocrats have Pluto in Leo (the king, the dictator, the 'me')....they are putting themselves on the throne of the homeland.

Pat QOP.....my heart sank when I read about Eric....and the medical SNAFUs....but I am delighted to read about how they are being handled. I am sure Eric is getting into his new clothes for a great trip to his new job....

and I had almost that SAME conversation with a Jewish long time friend of mine (and her daughter)in which I was told not to send negative and anti government email!!! this was a few days before the debacle in NOLA; I sent several things about it while getting jokes and other things back from them....and then more requests not to send , etc.........which I referred to a few threads back. It is startling to see the similarities going on! I don't understand it. Why would they NOT want to see what is happening in America? Well, for one thing, my friend's husband is a Zionist.....I suppose that may explain why....but I also know that being a realist and wanting to know the FACTS is just one way people have of 'being'. All the spiritual panacea in the world won't cure this one.

Pat C.....OY!

Posted by: judi g on September 11, 2005 05:47 AM

Anyhoo

As I step back and get some perspective I noticed a fascinating thing occurring.
Denver has gone nuts assisting the hurricane survivors. They are totally into it.

"Volunteers canceled Labor Day weekend plans and wrked around the clock to cart off truckloads of debris and mop away years of grime. In a massive outpouring of support--from pastors to policy wonks, from cops to robbers-- Camp Katrina was born.
The first planeload of survivors to enter the Mile High Miracle arrived on Sunday. They rejoiced at being clean, dry, and in safe surroundings.

Welcome to Camp Katrina.
Outside in the parking lot, volunteers use generators to serve hot meals. Evacuees play basketball using portable backboards a Denver Sheriff bought with his own money after noticing them scrimmaging in the parking lot.
Buses regularly shuttle residents to a variety of places--hair salons, Dumb Friends League where their pets are housed, schools, stores. The bus schedule appears on a huge white board just outside the entrance.
The evacuees make free phone calls on orange or white phones.
On the second floor a room has been transformed into a day care center. Across the way volunteers sort through clothes.
It was announced tha new bras and panties were available since a woman had gone to Target, bought them, and dropped them off.
They ask them what they want and go get it. The most asked for item was flip flops.
Every step of the way, a victim assistance advocate guies each family."
And most important, they are getting jobs.

The people of Denver took the abandoned Air Force dormitory and in record time cleaned it, fixed the plumbing, brought in carpenters to build vanities, cable TV was installed, and 50 phone lines.
About 1,100 volunteers worked on the transformation.

In other words, in a twist of fate, the white people have become the servants of the black survivors.

These people probably have the first real opportunity of their lives. What they do with it is up to them.

Posted by: jm on September 11, 2005 05:53 AM

People aren't fully grasping the magnitude of this event yet. It will go down in history as one of America's biggest disasters. Stories, songs, books, poems, movies, etc. will be written about it. Heroes will be remembered. And for generations the survivors will be telling their tales. It will also be remembered as a time when the USA government failed and the people themselves launched one of the most massive rescue missions ever experienced.

Posted by: jm on September 11, 2005 06:14 AM

Pat C.....the Bill Moyers article is absolutely so powerful...what an amazing man.....and this speaks to what we are trying to say:
As I look back on the conflicts and clamor of our boisterous past, one lesson about democracy stands above all others: Bullies -- political bullies, economic bullies and religious bullies -- cannot be appeased; they have to be opposed with a stubbornness to match their own. This is never easy. These guys don't fight fair; "Robert's Rules of Order" is not one of their holy texts. But freedom on any front -- and especially freedom of conscience -- never comes to those who rock and wait, hoping someone else will do the heavy lifting. Christian realism requires us to see the world as it is, without illusions, and then take it on. Christian realism also requires love. But not a sentimental, dreamy love. Reinhold Niebuhr, who taught at Union Theological Seminary and wrestled constantly with applying Christian ethics to political life, put it this way: "When we talk about love we have to become mature or we will become sentimental. Basically love means ... being responsible, responsibility to our family, toward our civilization, and now by the pressures of history, toward the universe of humankind."

Christian realists aren't afraid to love. But just as the Irishman who came upon a brawl in the street and asked, "Is this a private fight or can anyone get in it?" we have to take that love where the action is or the world will remain a theater of war between fundamentalists.
---------
this is from a speech he made at the Union Theological Seminary in New York on Sept. 7.

it is from Salon

Posted by: judi g on September 11, 2005 06:23 AM

Sally, the Vedic astrology is such a good idea, and good forum. One of the things I find so confusing is trying to translate the planetary positions (not that I do Vedic astrology o rany astrology for that matter which is at all deep); but trying to rethink myself as the preceeding sign rather than what I have become accustomed to....Raj....what do you think? How to handle it? Who am I , anyway????

Posted by: judi g on September 11, 2005 06:34 AM

Sally, thanks so much for arranging material for our continuing astrology education!
Regarding Chertoff: apparently he is the son of a rabbi, and as such is automatically entitled to Israeli citizenship.
Did any of you know that he was also a key GOP attorney in the whitewater investigation. No wonder he has been made chief of so called homeland security - aka, methods to control the masses.

On another note, it would be really great if we could all stop sniping at each other on this board; some either taking offence, or giving offence. Be polite and get over it. Surely we are all here for the greater good of humanity - all still on earth-school trying the best way we know how. Oh for the day when we can all recognize what MLK was getting at - judging people by the content of their character not the color of their skin. Generalized labels always fail to recognize the unique value that each one of us contributes.

Posted by: kiwijeanie on September 11, 2005 07:11 AM

kiwi... I know you mean well. An honest discussion means looking at behaviors & who is doing the behaviors without using distractors to minimize discomfort. Soil, air & water is poisoned on the whole globe & it's not getting better. WE are poisoned. I have some rashes that will not go away. Cancer is epidemic, esp among our children... so are respiratory diseases of all kinds. Masses of men are killing with every type of gun, bomb... bio, chem warfare. Clapping the hands, telling the disorderly children to behave & follow the rules will not fix what ails us.

We need mature discussion/decisions... talking with all whom we meet... without denial, distractions, embarrassed giggling, or hope it'll all go away: "Who is doing the murderous acting-out, why & what will we do about it." At the same time, we act on those solutions. There could be hope, for some of the children & g'children whose bodies could develop some kind of resistance to poisoning, for example... how could that be facilitated. What are some of the other things we can do & share. I am in dead earnest... I don't think there's much time available to us... at least at this world level.

Posted by: JoannaOregon on September 11, 2005 07:56 AM

It seems to me we have some wonderful creative minds on this board & with the unique talent of astrology. I just wish we could set our fabulous minds to "push up" more creative possibilities that I, you, can take to our various organizations in which we're active, & share/put into action. I work along with vets for peace & Code Pink, for instance. I could use more insights to share.

Posted by: JoannaOregon on September 11, 2005 08:07 AM

Well said JoannaO......

Posted by: judi g on September 11, 2005 08:09 AM

Good thinking, Joanna O.

Posted by: jm on September 11, 2005 08:30 AM

Well here I am being pulled between warrior, ( thank you Shylurker for admiring that stance; last thread) and nurturing Mother.................n sun sq t nept 9th house ; t mars conjunct n sun & uranus, 12th house. No wonder I can't focus!!!

Thinking of sending copies of the Blackwater mercenaries, and the article about the evidance of explosives on the levee pieces to my stubborn (zionist? ) neighbor! That's what you mean by stubborn I think jm.
I'm also charged with informing my daughter. She is increasingly uncomfortable in her very Republican neighborhood.
They are good people but.....clueless. She wants me to send her talking points ie: Grover Norquist's statement. PNAC info.
SO off to a busy day.
PQ

Posted by: Pat QOP on September 11, 2005 01:35 PM

Gee, it seems the biggest complainers are always leaving instead of negotiating. There's always an agenda too: Ralphie, gay, Clinton, Jews, men vs women. Leaving? Cya!! BTW, Sally makes the rules here at AW. Bullies? Most AW's are strong and not about to be pushed around by the ol' pc. I'm tired of the long poor me and my (minority, Ralphie, Clinton, Jews, men vs women) posts that offer no solution. That
conciousness was not here before and I've been here 3+ years. Not dropping the agenda when answered politely and forthrightly many times, is bullying. Why try to change (others), ignore the posts. Correcting (censoring) is a subtle victim/saviour mentality that we are awakening out of. To each his/her own (within reasonable self-control). My sympathies to those who have experienced much prejudice, BUT please do not leak what's been absorbed where not appropriate.

Joanna O, yes you come on strong.
Beats sewing buttons, that's for sure.
Never get that you 'hate'; anger, yes.
Well you can always add these code words into your postings to appease the (phony) pc left in awakening souls : Balloons, ponies, rainbows,
puppies, kittens, fairydust.

Not that I 'hate' white men, just am sick of these white men in charge of our country.

An older lady started fighting with me at the Post Office, she was the second lady to attack me in two minutes, public going postal. Told both of them I was not about to take on the fight. That stopped them. The daughter of the second lady gave me a profound insight when her mom started quoting the Bible and spouting how I need to read the Bible. Told me her mother was not educated and the Bible was the only book she knew how to read! (And that she fights with everyone). DING! DING! DING! that answers my deep question about the Fundies. Makes sense, under-educated leads to many inferiority complexes and it's over compensated with bravado and preaching. It actually gave me some compassion and understanding. GW gives the under educated hope that they are better instead of feeling embarassed or less than for being illiterate. Travesio, betcha you have some of my books on your bookshelf. If you have gotten one child into the love of their imaginations your job on Earth is complete. BTW, put my mouth up to the Bible thumping mother's ear and quietly said 'B***S***'.

All the pc in the world is not worth one drop of hard truth. Rock on JoO.

Posted by: bhakti on September 11, 2005 03:10 PM

Who are we really? Are we altruistic, or are we egoistic? To me that is the thing that separates us. If we are altruistic, we are willing to help others even at the expense of ourselves. If we are egoistic, we are more interested in helping ourselves. To me, this is the actual root of separation we struggle with and it is as old as time.

IMHO George W Bush and his partners speak as if they are altruistic, and practice egoistic acts.

Posted by: Pat C on September 11, 2005 04:23 PM

Pentagon Revises Nuclear Strike Plan

Strategy Includes Preemptive Use Against Banned Weapons

By Walter Pincus

Washington Post Staff Writer

Sunday, September 11, 2005; Page A01

The Pentagon has drafted a revised doctrine for the use of nuclear weapons that envisions commanders requesting presidential approval to use them to preempt an attack by a nation or a terrorist group using weapons of mass destruction. The draft also includes the option of using nuclear arms to destroy known enemy stockpiles of nuclear, biological or chemical weapons.

The document, written by the Pentagon's Joint Chiefs staff but not yet finally approved by Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, would update rules and procedures governing use of nuclear weapons to reflect a preemption strategy first announced by the Bush White House in December 2002. The strategy was outlined in more detail at the time in classified national security directives.

At a White House briefing that year, a spokesman said the United States would "respond with overwhelming force" to the use of weapons of mass destruction against the United States, its forces or allies, and said "all options" would be available to the president.

The draft, dated March 15, would provide authoritative guidance for commanders to request presidential approval for using nuclear weapons, and represents the Pentagon's first attempt to revise procedures to reflect the Bush preemption doctrine. A previous version, completed in 1995 during the Clinton administration, contains no mention of using nuclear weapons preemptively or specifically against threats from weapons of mass destruction.

Titled "Doctrine for Joint Nuclear Operations" and written under the direction of Air Force Gen. Richard B. Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the draft document is unclassified and available on a Pentagon Web site. It is expected to be signed within a few weeks by Air Force Lt. Gen. Norton A. Schwartz, director of the Joint Staff, according to Navy Cmdr. Dawn Cutler, a public affairs officer in Myers's office. Meanwhile, the draft is going through final coordination with the military services, the combatant commanders, Pentagon legal authorities and Rumsfeld's office, Cutler said in a written statement.

More http://tinyurl.com/cpc5g (WaPo)

Posted by: Pat C on September 11, 2005 04:39 PM

That's half the story and that road will lead one down the path of doing too much for the sake of spiritual pride. One must be fufuilled before fufulling othere as a mission. Otherwise, driving on half-full gets ya half-way there.
We are both altruistic and egoistic. BOTH reside in the human body in the realm of duality. To deny one aspect of the Chiti Shakti in oneself first is division right there. We keep projecting our broken mirrors outwardly. There is no division between worldy and spiritual. ALL is spiritual, even the ugly side, even the darkside is but a shadow in the realm of the One Light. So, let's get more to the root of division instead of creating detours that one is only altruist or that one is only egoist.
We have CHOICES in the realm of the dulaity. We can make the choices between poor or good. Or we can raise the vibration of choice between good and better. The white men in charge (and their consorts -really there are no women in charge. Condi is *'s Beyotch, nothing more) create a place for no choice. That need's to be the battlefeild we fight upon to not give up. Choice. If I feel like being an egoist for an afternoon without hurting anyone else along the way and with self-control that is my choice. Do not take it away.

Posted by: bhakti on September 11, 2005 04:45 PM

Pat C, it's ALL ego. I prefer to heed the wisdom of Cayce: "stand aside and watch self go by". You mentioned the Dalai Lama's armies; notice now that he is no longer in the thick of political events, he has no armies, merely a few bodyguards. I also was reminded how Jesus was killed because of politics, and his desire to change the thoughts of others in this regard.

Posted by: Peg on September 11, 2005 04:47 PM

My apologies for many spelling errors above , meant to hit 'preview' to edit but hit 'post' instead. You can tell I'd never make a great secratary ;-)

Posted by: bhakti on September 11, 2005 04:49 PM

In my attempt to be brief, I didn't express altruism toward oneself as well. You are right about that bhakti. There is balance.

The Dalai Lama's army was just too small, and not one country came to his aid, in spite of his pleas. Those who would be his friends were not altruistic at all. To this day he speaks of living a happy life, and has bodygaurds.

Posted by: Pat C on September 11, 2005 05:06 PM


Living the Compassionate Life by His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama
http://www.shambhalasun.com/revolving_themes/HHDL/compassion.htm
(...) Compassion without attachment is possible. Therefore, we need to clarify the distinctions between compassion and attachment. True compassion is not just an emotional response but a firm commitment founded on reason. Because of this firm foundation, a truly compassionate attitude toward others does not change even if they behave negatively. Genuine compassion is based not on our own projections and expectations, but rather on the needs of the other: irrespective of whether another person is a close friend or an enemy, as long as that person wishes for peace and happiness and wishes to overcome suffering, then on that basis we develop genuine concern for their problem. This is genuine compassion.

Posted by: Pat C on September 11, 2005 05:12 PM

In Scotland

http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1921402005

Fuel crisis: drivers face rationing

MINISTERS fear fuel supplies are on the verge of widespread disruption and have drawn up plans to deploy troops to guard refineries and introduce petrol rationing.

Posted by: Pat C on September 11, 2005 05:21 PM

Pat C posting the "Doctrine for Joint Nuclear Operations" makes it very clear that the lethal wargeezer doesn't intend for any Life to exist... it is virulently anti-Life. That's why the FEMA is an empty shell which has no funds to distribute to hurricane victims... nor does it plan to have "funds." The whole US govt is an empty shell... but that shell (like the enron shell) is dedicated to the destruction of all Life. It's all a con shell game played by a few violent psychopathic gamers.

But my question remains: Who & why are they? We DO need a miracle, bhakti... everybody. We do need a miracle.

Posted by: JoannaOregon on September 11, 2005 05:37 PM

Yes Joanna, their plan appears to be to disarm everyone else of everything needed to survive, and arm themselves to the teeth. All this appears to be a great robbery of everyone who is not them.

They do indeed appear to be the agents of the Nothing, and creators of the anti-life.

Posted by: Pat C on September 11, 2005 05:43 PM

Blessed Be, Miss Sally... I'm just not able to get into learning Vedic astrology tho I very much appreciate the opportunity to do so. My heart is broken for the Natural World & its Peoples. Someone already well-versed in Vedic, given the limited time, may point out some viable solutions, yes? But I do know: We need a miracle.

Posted by: JoannaOregon on September 11, 2005 05:44 PM

Sally, I would love to see your's and Gary's thoughts based in Verdic astrology.

Posted by: Pat C on September 11, 2005 05:51 PM

Today, Sunday, September 11th at 7:06PM E.S.T., ABC News Radio Affiliates on the east coast will air a 1 hour pre-recorded special featuring author and theologian David Ray Griffin, 9/11 survivor and RICO suit plaintiff William Rodgriquez and 9/11 widow Lorie Van Auken, who recently presented at Congresswoman McKinney's Congressional Briefing on July 22. The program will for the first time on a major new news network give voice to the those who have challenged the 9/11 Commission's findings, who have suggested a pervasive cover-up or the involvement of government conspirators.

The program will re-air hourly at 8:06, 9:06, 10:06, etc. this evening. It has already been aired by two affiliates and is now available to over 3000 affiliates nationally.

Please tune in, record the show, and let ABC know that you are interested in similar programs digging deeper into the challenges posed to the official narrative for the events of September 11th.

Please take a moment now to email your friends and colleagues and let them know about this encouraging breakthrough.

For a list of affiliates please visit http://www.abcradio.com

Posted by: Pat C on September 11, 2005 05:53 PM

Been meaning to add this to the list of things to consider.....the explosives on the levee in NOLA....well, google up this:

Levee disaster 1927 New Orleans.

PBS had a great page on it....the powers that be DYN-O-MITED the levee.......1927 ! lots of pages on it....think Rove probably was aware of this?

The split in humanity.....the 'not seeing' that we are all one. This is the big puzzle piece....is it sliding into place now? I know that once the last piece of a puzzle fits in, a new puzzle starts....

Posted by: judi g on September 11, 2005 06:02 PM

Save New Orleans music -- lots of ways to help:

http://www.savenolamusic.org/

...................

This Newsweek story - there's a detail in it that needs to be broadcast from coast to coast.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9287434/

The reality, say several aides who did not wish to be quoted because it might displease the president, did not really sink in until Thursday night. Some White House staffers were watching the evening news and thought the president needed to see the horrific reports coming out of New Orleans. Counselor Bartlett made up a DVD of the newscasts so Bush could see them in their entirety as he flew down to the Gulf Coast the next morning on Air Force One.
That means Bush didn't already know what was going on down there.


And it's taken the deaths of thousands of Americans for the snooze media to finally portray Bush's temperament as a Bad Thing.


How this could be—how the president of the United States could have even less "situational awareness," as they say in the military, than the average American about the worst natural disaster in a century—is one of the more perplexing and troubling chapters in a story that, despite moments of heroism and acts of great generosity, ranks as a national disgrace.

President George W. Bush has always trusted his gut. He prides himself in ignoring the distracting chatter, the caterwauling of the media elites, the Washington political buzz machine. He has boasted that he doesn't read the papers. His doggedness is often admirable. It is easy for presidents to overreact to the noise around them.

But it is not clear what President Bush does read or watch, aside from the occasional biography and an hour or two of ESPN here and there. Bush can be petulant about dissent; he equates disagreement with disloyalty. After five years in office, he is surrounded largely by people who agree with him.

More..

Posted by: Pat C on September 11, 2005 06:03 PM

I plan to be in Scotland by Sept 30... for 2 wks is the plan, then England for 2 wks. With very little "gas" projected to be available anywhere (Pat C's article), perhaps I shall soon be a "refugee"... not being able to get out. That idea, on first thot, seems fine with me... the US these days, of course, gives me the rabid creeps, & not that any country is "safe."

On NOLA, the black community was wiped out. I think back over all the so-called "race riots," which really meant that, like clock-work, pink supremacist males, would go over to the black community to set it afire & shoot the People. The "reason" was always the same urban myth: some black guy raped / killed / made a pass at / molested / fondled a "white woman." As soon as these communities began to thrive & create, they were destroyed. New Orleans was a bit different in that it's been a around for a while, & "fondled" a "white woman" doesn't work so well in this instance. But the super-monied have nothing else to do now but look for something "special" on which to spend oodles of money. So, "gentrify" New Orleans. That's another old pattern of The Truly Mindless... invading & taking over the results of someone else's organic creativity. The scared & mindless are not creative... they copy or grab. Otoh, these Stupids are looking to plant their worthless greedy pink asses in a highly toxic dump. 'Course, it wldn't be the 1st time.

Posted by: JoannaOregon on September 11, 2005 06:16 PM

Joanna, I want to go with you!!

..........

http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/05/09/con05323.html

"Brownie, You're Doing A Heck Of A Job"
Is there anyone in the press who can seriously ask someone: "Is this the culture of life we heard so much about during the Schiavo debacle"?

Posted by: Pat C on September 11, 2005 06:21 PM

Joanna, I think they want the ports.

Posted by: Pat C on September 11, 2005 06:43 PM

Yea, verily, Pat C... but they've always had "the ports," yes?

I think The Vision for 'Mer'ca, in many of the pink crazies, is a disneyland mainstreet exhibit... the potempkin of the nazis... where all the pink folk are mindlessly smiling, happy, safe, secure, floating. Down in the cellar bowels of all this "loveliness" are just enuf "Other" to keep the whole illusion going... you know, doing The Sh*t Work of cleaning, scraping, toting, hoisting, sweating, dying, etc. An image that the snuff video is to maintain at all costs... no reality or filling... no human or other animal misery allowed... no poisoned world... no organicity, nothing... just a video... a World Wid "Story of O"... with the smiling psychopathic Jesus presiding over all... (sigh) This is not the wargeezer's New Age Aquarian Vision, of course... it's far more pragmatic.

Posted by: JoannaOregon on September 11, 2005 07:19 PM

Dear Beasley: You asked Sally specifically, but I can help direct you to Vis's article on Varuna. I remember reading it a few years ago. It's very interesting.
http://www.astroworld.us/archives/cat_vis_numar.html see: 12-10-002

Also another article by individual named Armstrong in same archives dated 1-17-03.

Posted by: Beverly on September 11, 2005 07:45 PM

rove strikes out at John Conyers in Detroit Free Press....
http://www.democrats.com/node/6085

Posted by: judi g on September 11, 2005 08:10 PM

http://www.tomdispatch.com/index.mhtml?emx=x&pid=21456

James Carroll on Our Post-9/11 World

Posted by: Pat C on September 11, 2005 08:21 PM

US ambass. to UN Bolton has driven the UN talks on poverty and reform to near collapse:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,1566848,00.html?gusrc=rss

Posted by: judi g on September 11, 2005 08:55 PM

Judi g: Condi "promised" to "keep an eye on him" during his first steps.

Not watching to good, just as I expected.

Judi, thanks for the Conyers link. We all need to support him as much as possible.

Posted by: Beverly on September 11, 2005 09:21 PM

My favorite new bumpersticker:"

"If the levees breach, you must impeach."


Beverly, what are we all but little Dutch kids with our fingers in the levees, holding back the breaking (dynamited) walls?

Posted by: judi g on September 11, 2005 09:47 PM

I agree completely with you Peg. It seems like politics and armies go fist in glove.
I've always thought that the stronger the ego, the less the need to defend it.
If it take trillions of dollars and mega tons of weapons, we are in trouble. But where exactly do we go to fix it?

The hydra syndrome is making this repeated limb cutting useless and draining precious life force.
What can we do?

Posted by: jm on September 11, 2005 10:13 PM

I think there has been a breakthrough with Katrina and that's why the aftermath is so important. The country a a whole sees it right now. The strength of the immediate response of the people of this country to help its own reveals a character trait we can rely on. There is a lot being destroyed but there is a lot to work with and build upon.
There is seldom a complete Armageddon, destruction and creation usually happen together.
Katrina is no small matter. Some awakening has occurred and maybe one vital thing is to just stay awake from here on in.

Posted by: jm on September 11, 2005 10:48 PM

katrina sure does remind me of Kali.

Posted by: jm on September 11, 2005 10:50 PM

It also just occurred to me that the massive effort to help our people is opposed to Republican Darwinian philosophy. I think they are doomed. It just doesn't fit the character of the country overall.
If this doesn't prove that we want our government to be socially responsible, then I don't know what would. Maybe we are ready to stop the gutting of our social programs. The stories coming up about how the people were left to die are going to have a big impact. The perfect neocon experiment. Don't think the people like it very much now.

Posted by: jm on September 11, 2005 11:18 PM

From a Kos diary:

"Newsweek published its hurricane post-mortem this morning. It is as scathing an indictment of a president as I've ever seen."

Posted by: jm on September 11, 2005 11:34 PM

jm....your observations appear to be right on....but the results will have to wait awhile to see if anything lasts.

Although I am always optomistic....despite being a cassandra and shit disturber.

Posted by: judi g on September 11, 2005 11:52 PM

Opinions are based not on intelligence, but on experience. (Which is why diversity is good in government--lots of varied backgrounds & experiences.)

But the American public by and large has no experience of war, nor of large-scale suffering. So much of the the public's opinions have been based on the experience of listening to Rush Limbaugh, watching Fox "News"--manufactured experience served up like MealsReadyToEat.

With Katrina suddenly there are a whole lot of people with immediate direct experience of suffering; and a whole lot more seeing that suffering without the usual right-wing filter, and also realizing they could be as vunerable as those on the Gulf Coast who were hit.

The ruled class is getting a good look at the ruling class.

BTW, didn't Sally say that today 9/11 transiting Saturn was exactly conj Bush's Asc.?

Also, I think the "tributes" to victims of 9/11 on the tv news shows this morning were scheduled--in part--to push off the Bush criminal negligence news.

Posted by: Barbara on September 12, 2005 01:06 AM

Sally.....we need some Vedic insights into this continuing story of America's waking up from that Rip Van Winkle nap...like the hangover of the Reagan years is finally over.

.just saw the story on the second night of rioting in Belfast...http://www.guardian.co.uk/Northern_Ireland/Story/0,2763,1567926,00.html

I just talked to my ex in NYC...he has made a huge turnabout in his attitude and fully embraced this awakening which is happening....an awakening which is certainly painful.

I also remember that a few threads back I posted -and this was early August - about how tired I was, and it felt like the flu, only seemed to be a terrible depression....it went away in two weeks or so, but I kept thinking....I can feel it, something big is going to happen.....

Well, as Morgana knows, living here in SF bay area, it will always be on our minds that something big will happen. I just remembered that I had told people this....something big is going to happen.

Well, must go look up hurrican Ophelia....that is the name of my ex mother in law, also....

Posted by: judi g on September 12, 2005 01:20 AM

I read this Newsweek article today at work.(I work at a company that prints and binds magazines).

She's right on.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9287026/site/newsweek/

Posted by: Patricia on September 12, 2005 01:53 AM

jm,

isn't it interesting that Darwinism is anathama to the Wing-Nuts when it refers to differentia of the species, i.e., evolution; but is just peachy-keen when it is used to justify economic predators?

And, of course, they conveniently overlook the overwhelming evidence that cooperation is a survival mechanism.

Well, consistency is not the Right Wing's strong point.

Posted by: Barbara on September 12, 2005 02:09 AM

http://www.rense.com/general67/femwont.htm

FEMA's Blocking Of Relief Efforts - An Amazing List
9-8-5


FEMA won't accept Amtrak's help in evacuations
http://news.ft.com/cms/s/84aa35cc-1da8-11da-b40b-00000e..

FEMA turns away experienced firefighters
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/9/5/105538/7048

FEMA turns back Wal-Mart supply trucks
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/05/national/nationalspec..

FEMA prevents Coast Guard from delivering diesel fuel
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/05/national/nationalspec..

FEMA won't let Red Cross deliver food
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05246/565143.stm

FEMA bars morticians from entering New Orleans
http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=15147862&BRD=...

FEMA blocks 500-boat citizen flotilla from delivering aid
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/9/3/171718/0826

FEMA fails to utilize Navy ship with 600-bed hospital on board
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0509..

FEMA to Chicago: Send just one truck
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-050902dale..

FEMA turns away generators
http://www.wwltv.com/local/stories/WWLBLOG.ac3fcea.html

FEMA: "First Responders Urged Not To Respond"
http://www.fema.gov/news/newsrelease.fema?id=18470

That last one is real -- not satire but straight from FEMA's website.

Posted by: Pat C on September 12, 2005 02:21 AM

* New Orleans: "deliberate act of sabotage was the opening of floodgates"

My neighbors are lifelong New Orleanians. Most of their family has evacuated to here, but one nephew who had a broken leg was trapped in NO & was only able to leave a few days ago. I talked to his uncle today about these allegations that the levee was deliberately blown. His nephew was nearby & confirms that residents heard a series of explosions before the levee "failed".

Another deliberate act of sabotage was the opening of floodgates in another location that was announced in advance by radio. Such an act to sacrifice a poor neighborhood in order to spare an expensive one is not unprecedented in NO history.

I spent most of my teen yrs in NO & have spent much time there since. The rest of the world really can't comprehend the depth of racism & class disparity in NO. I have no doubt that Rep Baker's recent remark that the public housing problem has been solved by God when it cldn't be accomplished legally any other way is entirely reflective of the rapacious developer mentality in the region.

They have wanted to rid NO of its poor for yrs in order to snap up desirable real estate. As with everything else in America, it's about depopulating the unwanted so that the rich["white"]-boy powermongers can do what they want. Such is the South. Such is the US.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=MCL20050911&articleId=930

Posted by: JoannaOregon on September 12, 2005 02:43 AM

Barbara,

Great point on Darwinism. Gave me a chuckle.

Judi,

Right now I have more hope than I've had in ages.

Joanna,

There seems to be a sensitivity in you that is greater and more highly tuned than most. There is a high price for this. It can be painful. But this is exactly what we all need to help keep us aware and get us through these hard times. You have so much weighing on you now. The country, your father's death, your future.
Whatever comfort you can find, take it.

Posted by: jm on September 12, 2005 03:08 AM

Is my tin foil hat on straight? Wait, let me see. Yep.

This "entity" makes such good arguments or points or whatever you want to call them.

Anyway, one of my favorite quotes is:

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio than are dreamt of in your philosphy. Hamlet..Act I, Scene V.

Here ya go folks:
http://www.bluestarspeaks.com/bluestar911.htm

Posted by: Patricia on September 12, 2005 03:09 AM

I think people are getting how big this is. It is just beginning. Wait till the stories come flooding. People will not be able to get enough. A gigantic cosmic chord was struck and the reverberations will be deep and long.

You can't imagine how angry the media are now. The government just tried to block them from covering one of the biggest events in history. This is what they live and breathe for. Not a good move. Not at all.

People around the world are awakened. This could happen to anyone, anywhere, at any time. And this is the result if you don't have a responsible government.
Pluto in Capricorn will be this chance for everyone and many will take it.

Posted by: jm on September 12, 2005 03:16 AM

Barbara, bluestar is mistaken about at least one thing....9/11 was NOT the biggest manmade disaster....even Pearl Harbor or the bombing of Dresden and the bombing of London....it was Hiroshima/Nagasaki. the rest of the huge death tolls thruout history have been from earthquakes/floods.

Remember, those who forget history are condemned to repeat it.

Posted by: judi g on September 12, 2005 03:22 AM

Judi, most definitely. 911 was peanuts in comparison and I think it has just been sent to the dust bin with the big celebration today. who in the world is in the mood right now for even MORE of 911.

Posted by: jm on September 12, 2005 03:35 AM

I'm just not happy with being made an unwillingly participant & "sponsor" in the World Wide Psychopathic bushCo Snuff Video Production Corp, jm... are you? The wretched scripts are ever the same & set-up with small variation in both the 9/11 Disaster & NOLA Disaster videos (leaving out the Afghanistan/Iraq et al disasters for a moment)... but, after all, disaster films have always been very, very popular with the empty-headed over-hormonal victim-IDd psychotic macho crowd. The two groups belong together naturally... a marriage made in Hades.

"Disaster" will be the signature & logos of the bushaholic years (Prez Clinton didn't pick THOSE scripts at least). Has anyone else ever noticed that groups have their own special fave scripts? For instance, it's mostly only the roman catholics that consistently have visions of Prophetic Weeping Marys dancin' in their haids? Same thing. And scripts makes lossa moola from The Stupids.

Posted by: JoannaOregon on September 12, 2005 03:42 AM

Rumsfailed's party. Very interesting. Go to John's post at 10:05 pm (he's got another one up now about the same thing, but scroll down to the 10:05 one).
http://www.americablog.org/

Posted by: shylurker on September 12, 2005 03:48 AM

Go to Google. Type in the word 'failure' (do not use the quotes), then hit the "I'm feeling lucky" button.

Posted by: shylurker on September 12, 2005 03:52 AM

"A marriage made in Hades"

Need I say more?

Posted by: jm on September 12, 2005 03:55 AM

Excellent link shylurker. If they arrived at 2 and 15,000 to 16,000 people were there, they must have had the military that New Orleans needed to get it this clean. Hard to believe, in fact don't believe it. Someone should tell the Washington Post that "droves" are now spread out in the country.

Posted by: Sally on September 12, 2005 04:00 AM

************************************************
SINCERE REQUEST FOR HELP OF A SPIRITUAL KIND
************************************************

I've never asked for anything like this before but I would like your help now.

A good friend is going before a judge at 1:30 Central Time Monday in Nashville, TN.

He has done nothing wrong. He has spent his life helping people and doing good works for individuals and his country.

He needs your prayers and goal directed meditation.

If you can spare a moment to send positive energy to FBN now or especially mid day tomorrow, you would be doing a very kind thing for a very kind and compassionate individual.

The goal is -- release from persecution and freedom.

Thanks,
mike

Posted by: mike on September 12, 2005 04:40 AM

Otoh... recent Disaster Events have shown countless wonderful heart-lifting responses from the REAL American people... in spite of the barriers put in front of them by the bushaDruggie crowd. "Can't beat that with a stick--nor wld you want to!" says a friend of mine from Michigan. ;O)

Posted by: JoannaOregon on September 12, 2005 04:46 AM

This is interesting:

“The Houston Chronicle, in Mr Bush's home state of Texas, termed the storm's political fall-out as the "most significant fracturing of Republican Party unity of the Bush presidency".
That point was underlined yesterday by New York's former mayor, Rudy Giuliani, a Republican, who backed Senator Hillary Clinton in calling for an independent inquiry.”

You mean Rudy? The "Thank God George Bush is our President", Rudy?

Posted by: jm on September 12, 2005 05:49 AM

Absolutely Mike.

Posted by: Pat C on September 12, 2005 10:46 AM

Of late, I have been counseling my sons to let go of life challenges they're wrestling with too tightly and trust that Life itself will handle their nemeses.

What 'goes around, comes around' is more than just a convenient cliche. My own life experience has taught me that when that Great Cosmic Hand slaps the nefarious down, it does it at a level and with a breathtaking precise reckoning that I in my cheesy plans for vengeance wouldn't ever have thought of. And generally only when I have let go and gotten past it.
Setting the grevious tragedy of it all aside for one moment, the undoing and awakening on so many levels that Katrina has accomplished is mind-boggling. I wouldn't be surprised to find as time goes on that the plans and schemes of the neoCons of the last 30-40 years have been swept aside in an instant by the Great Mother.
Even the kidney stones that put Karl Rove in the hospital while all this was going on seems like more karmic timing.

Posted by: bbuster on September 12, 2005 11:23 AM

Sorry for the double post, but wanted to add this after I went back and read Vis's Varuna archive post of Dec '02.
This is a comment by 'jerome' (wonder if that's jerome armstrong who used to host Sally's web site back in the day?)
Here's the comment: "Bush is going to destroy something, and there are a few options, the Republican Party certainly being one of them."
Incidentally, that archive's comments have been hacked with numerous links to porno sites. Even the url's are filthy.

Posted by: bbuster on September 12, 2005 11:38 AM

AAAAAAAAmenBBuster, my experience with Karmic vengance as well!
Call your Senators again this morning and urge them NOT to vote Roberts in.
PQ

Posted by: Pat QOP on September 12, 2005 01:12 PM

Poll: Do you approve of Smirky's handling of Katrina?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3080261/#survey

Posted by: shylurker on September 12, 2005 03:24 PM

bbuster, loved your comments on the great karmic hand of fate....especially in reference to our own 'cheesy plans of vengence' .....I'll add a big AAAAmen to that also!

Didn't know about Karl's pain from the kidney stones....perhaps our collective public 'pissed off 'ness keep him from.....well, you know what I mean? I kept wondering about the root cause of Renhquists thyroid cancer, based on Louise Hay's collection of root causes of disease....but I don't have the book...


I wasn't on this board in '02....thanks for looking up that old archive...

Posted by: judi g on September 12, 2005 04:27 PM

I am going to add a little here on the asteroid conversation which spreads over a couple of the last threads. I actually found that I had the Asteroid Encyclopedia by Jacob Schwartz....1993. I looked up some of the asteroid positions ...the nodes for 1993 which are in the book...

1993 was the year I lost my home to GHWB's earlier massive bushonomics recessionary era....along with career and all my savings. The nodes in all of these asteroid listings has the asteroid 'George" sitting on my natal Mars. Anubis and Nemisis were on my natal Sun/Saturn conj. Ornamenta was sitting on my Venus/MC (I was doing ornamental china designs for a housewares designer); Hicks was on my Pluto in the 10th (last name of the artist who had asked me to train with her in doing storyboards then); and best of all, Dawn was conj. my Moon and an asteroid named McAuliffe was conjuncting my northnode. Why McAuliffe? 6 years later, my daughter married her husband, a man I had been having dreams about since she was 10 years old. Of course, her name is now McAuliffe.

So I lost pretty much everything, but it was certainly the dawn of a new age for me....!

Posted by: judi g on September 12, 2005 04:40 PM

Mike....keep us posted.....it is Monday at 8:43 AM here in SF....sending your friend some good stuff now....

Posted by: judi g on September 12, 2005 04:43 PM

Mike, I hope everything has worked out for your friend. Keep us posted.

Posted by: Teresa on September 12, 2005 06:53 PM

Sally,

Have you checked shrub's astro forecasts for Sept-
end of year? Seems like Katrina(Kali) has just
begun devouring this rogue. brownie resigned just
now. Finally, Pat Fitzgerald is coming up with final reports and indictments late Sept or in Oct.
Its going to be downhill at 89 deg.grade for shrub
and his cronies from now on(if not a 90 deg. vertical free fall)

Posted by: Raj on September 12, 2005 08:22 PM

bbuster,

Wonderful, eloquent, calm and reassuring post.

Judi,

Louise says thyroid is humiliation.

Kidneys: criticism, disappointment, failure, shame. Reacting like a kid.

Posted by: jm on September 12, 2005 09:08 PM

This from Alice Steadman:

Stones, such as gall and kidney stones, are a way to gather stones which you cannot throw...hmmmm.

Posted by: jm on September 12, 2005 09:13 PM

Dear Judi: I will look up Haye's thyroid emotional component when I get home soon.

Seems to me, throat chakra involved with glandular issues, represents blocked verbal expression and lack of get up and go energy (glands). Stuff stuck there in the throat. Cancer - deep, deep, repressed and unresolved emotional trauma. Unwillingness/inability to release it. All of which compromises the immune system.

Also....I did not interpret Blue Stars comment on 9/11 as being the biggest disaster ever.

What I came away with was the genocide by leaders killing their own people. Their own kind. I'm not even sure that is correct interpretation. It was somewhat confusingto me...just that one part?????

Skylurker: I do not have the "do you feel luck button" therefore I can not understand Sally's posting that follows. Can you help?

Posted by: Beverly on September 12, 2005 09:15 PM

Breaking

A major portion of LA has lost power.

Posted by: Pat C on September 12, 2005 09:21 PM

Skyluker: Nevermind--I just figured it out. I got your two post mixed-up...that's all.

Posted by: Beverly on September 12, 2005 09:26 PM

About what was the largest manmade disaster, I think more people died in the firebombing of Tokyo than died in either of the atomic bomb blasts. The Tokyo bombing doesn't get as much attention because it just involved "conventional" weapons. I used to read a lot about World War II because I like history (my venus in Cancer?) and didn't know much about the Pacific war--before WWII became fashionable. Now that we have such clear good guys and bad guys in our current politics, I don't have to read about the old war.

Posted by: marcia on September 12, 2005 09:30 PM

http://dsc.discovery.com/news/briefs/20050912/sunflare.html

Giant Solar Flare Hits U.S., Canada

Posted by: Pat C on September 12, 2005 09:40 PM

Everyone: Kind of off topic but "good" news nonetheless...more indictments issued to Texans for Majority PAC, but nothing against Delay yet.

Surely, this long string of indictments will have to reach Delay eventually. http://www.statesman.com/news/contents/shared/tx/legislature/stories/09/9tab.html

Posted by: Beverly on September 12, 2005 09:51 PM

Marcia,

I thought exactly the same thing about the largest disaster. The destruction of the fire bombing was almost beyond imagination.

You absolutely must see the Japanese animated movie called, "The Grave of Fireflies", the most tragic film I've ever seen and it is all about the fire bombings. It's on DVD and it is the most original way of portraying the destruction and sorrow of war that I've
come across. Huge emotional impact. Your Venus in Cancer might get carried away.

Posted by: jm on September 12, 2005 09:58 PM

(oh, sigh) Those atomic blasts were the "gifts" that kept on giving--to this day--death & disease by radiation sicknesses & genetic mutations/deformities. These count.

Posted by: JoannaOregon on September 12, 2005 09:59 PM

Please everyone...If you haven't signed the letters to your Congress people for the bill to introduce an inquiry into the allegations implied by Downing Street Memo please do so now.
It only takes a minute. We only have until 9-14.

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org

Posted by: Beverly on September 12, 2005 10:14 PM

Fiore

http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0537,fiore,67684,9.htm

Posted by: Pat C on September 12, 2005 10:27 PM

http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0537,fiore,67684,9.html

Posted by: on September 12, 2005 10:36 PM

Thanks Beverly. I sent it out again.

Posted by: Pat C on September 12, 2005 10:54 PM

Beverly,

Don’t expect Delay to ever be indicted. I read somewhere because of some sort of “Texas Law or Technicality” Delay is untouchable. Doesn’t that just burn ya’

Posted by: Starrynights/SN on September 13, 2005 12:08 AM

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/9/12/142729/858

Good, crisp decisions

Posted by: Pat C on September 13, 2005 12:15 AM

The Roberts hearings began at noon today in the Russell Building in D.C. Do any of you astrologers see what may happen with this, with the stars today? Would today be the "birth" of the Roberts nomination?

I scanned the posts but please forgive me if this has already been addressed.

Posted by: Laurie on September 13, 2005 12:50 AM

Laurie, over on Sarlight news, Nancy has an article and there are several comments on Roberts,

Posted by: Pat C on September 13, 2005 12:59 AM

Pat C, thank you, I will go there now.

This is a very interesting site. Great articles.

http://ustourofduty.org/pages/opinion.html

Posted by: Laurie on September 13, 2005 02:39 AM

The Democrats cannot stop John Roberts, whose Senate hearings kicked off today. Consequently, writes David Corn in Capital Games, they can only have one political objective: to boost the number of no votes to Bush's nominee for Supreme Court Chief Justice which would allow them to claim their party is the one that cares about privacy rights and could help them lay the groundwork for Bush's next Supreme Court pick.
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/capitalgames?bid=3&pid=21640

Posted by: Pat C on September 13, 2005 02:47 AM

Beverly,

Thank you, thank you, and thank you! The links on Varuna were/are very helpful to my growing education in astrology.
Will research.

Posted by: Beasley on September 13, 2005 02:55 AM

thanks Beverly, jm, hope I'm not forgetting anyone...all that info is just wonderful....it gives me courage to go on....

As for the 'killing of one's own people' or killing someone else's people, it is all pretty heinous, isn't it? I had forgotten about Tokyo....and there was Dresden, also....

How long will it be before both sides of 'them' and 'us' realize what they inflict on each other?

Posted by: judi g on September 13, 2005 04:28 AM

teresa, judi g, and pat c and anyone else who sent vibes, thank you so much. i'll know more tomorrow! you are dears! and thank you too bhakti;)

Posted by: mike on September 13, 2005 06:57 AM

I hear ya, Judi.

Here is some good news although it is beyong disgusting that it wasn't certain until now:

"The Wall Street Journal reports that Congress plans to delay Bush’s tax cuts:

WASHINGTON — In a major shift of priorities after Hurricane Katrina, Republican leaders in Congress have delayed plans to extend dividend and capital gains tax cuts and may shelve them for the rest of the year.

The House and Senate had planned a fall legislative agenda around a massive budget bill that extended to 2010 the 15% tax rate on dividends and capital gains signed by President Bush two years ago. The cut was one of the president’s signature initiatives and is seen inside the White House as a key part of his economic legacy."

On another blog, A Republican from Louisiana has joined us with some interesting perspectives:

" It's like deja vu if you know the history of the Acadians. The irony to all this, is that One month after England had the first commemoration day to acknowledge the Grand Dérangement, Katrina came in and and caused displacement 250yrs after."

Acadians
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/acadians/

History of the Acadians
http://www.acadian-cajun.com/hisacad1.htm

"They roamed the world for a decade, and was systematically separated from their other family members as the British put them on boats. Because they would not swear alliegence to a tyrant, and they were left there with no help from France, their own ancestral country, that colonized the area in the first place. Eerie when you look at the comparisions of current Louisiana huh?"

this is a good opportunity to learn something about the history of our lost city and the surrounding areas in this vastly diverse country we live in.

Posted by: jm on September 13, 2005 07:01 AM

A good one from Howard Dean:

"Mike Brown’s decision to resign from FEMA is the best decision he’s made in three weeks."

Posted by: jm on September 13, 2005 07:23 AM

jm,
Thank you for the Acadian history! I've been thinking about them. Years ago I started to do a series of woodcuts, illustrating, Longfellow's poem Evangeline, about the young Acadian couple separated from each other during their wedding feast, by the British soldiers, and taken away on different ships. She spent her lifetime searching for him, ( in Louisiana among other places); and found him in a church turned hospital, dying of wounds, inflicted during the civil war. That church was on Lombard St. in Phila., not far from our house.
My friends in PEI placed several of the prints in a shop there..not too much came of it. Then Ed and I divorced and I wound up running the mural business full time - plus, and parked that project.
It is timely for me to remember...............that now.
PQ

Posted by: Pat QOP on September 13, 2005 11:24 AM

You're most welcome, PQ.

Posted by: jm on September 13, 2005 11:57 AM

I counted seven "thank yous" in the last seven posts.

Just some arithmetic.

Posted by: jm on September 13, 2005 01:14 PM

One last thing before I sign out. It appears as if Katrina has knocked both 9/11 and the War on Terror out of the ring. Our President is stripped, isn't he? What next? No one seems to know. I'm not sure if they were ready for this.

Posted by: jm on September 13, 2005 01:32 PM

JM-
I think they knew about Katrina and helped it happen(I wear tinfoil 24/7) by blowing up the levees--only they didn't count on the press deviating from the script this time.

And in the Freudian slip alert dept., Cheney refers to Katrina as an "exercise":

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050910/us_nm/cheney_dc_4

Posted by: Garry on September 13, 2005 01:39 PM

I think Katrina makes a big difference too, jm--and I was going to thank you for mentioning the movie about Japan, but don't want to get too repetitive :)

Oh, if the deficit or the economy improves any because they are delaying the tax cuts, you can bet Bushco will take credit for it.

I was clicking on websites of 2 of the organizations that are organizing the Sept. 24 march in Washington, and one of them (Answer or United for Peace and Justice) has signs you can download and put up in places to advertise the march, but the signs are just about getting out of the war. I want to put up something that is more generally anti-Bush, or for impeachment, but so far haven't found it.

Are any of you AWers going to be here in DC for the march? Anybody want to plan to get together sometime that weekend, or should I just look for the areas of the crowd that have the whitest light over them?

Posted by: marcia on September 13, 2005 01:47 PM

hey Garry, I think this government coined the term "tin-foil" to marginalize us all as conspiracy freaks. Nostradamus "foresaw" the weather manipulation: Devices developed by man to manipulate the weather will go awry
because of faulty programming. http://www.faqs.org/faqs/nostradamus/part5/

Cheney knew what they were doing. Hell, the whole Congress knew it: 109th CONGRESS
1st Session

S. 517


To establish the Weather Modification Operations and Research Board, and for other purposes.


IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES

March 3, 2005
Mrs. HUTCHISON introduced the following bill; which was read twice and referred to the Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


A BILL
To establish the Weather Modification Operations and Research Board, and for other purposes.


Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This Act may be cited as the `Weather Modification Research and Technology Transfer Authorization Act of 2005'.

SEC. 2. PURPOSE.

It is the purpose of this Act to develop and implement a comprehensive and coordinated national weather modification policy and a national cooperative Federal and State program of weather modification research and development.

Posted by: Peg on September 13, 2005 03:12 PM

Sally, is this worthy of a chart?

http://today.reuters.com/news/newsarticle.aspx?type=domesticNews&summit=TokyoTechSummit05&storyid=2005-09-13T132440Z_01_DIT347721_RTRIDST_0_USREPORT-BUSH-DC.XML

Posted by: Teresa on September 13, 2005 03:33 PM

from the Acadian history links posted above:

http://www.acadian-cajun.com/hiscaj4.htm

~snip~

Perhaps the most direct impact on Cajuns was the influence of industry. By far, the biggest industry has been the oil and gas business. The presence of gas had been known for years. It would occasionally escape through the ground in the swamps. In 1812, an entire island caught fire and escaping natural gas burned for 3 months. In 1823, engineers drilling for water in Pointe Coupee Parish kept hitting natural gas instead. At that time, it was just an annoyance. (Cajuns, Rushton, p. 147)
~snip~

Posted by: Lori on September 13, 2005 03:33 PM

Poll: Should more Smirky&Co officials step down due to governmental "response" to Katrina?
http://www.cnn.com/

Posted by: shylurker on September 13, 2005 05:51 PM

I posted this on Nancy's blog too.

Bush's speech on Thursday is at 8:00 p.m. local time. I used New Orleans as a location. I came up with 14 Aries rising. There were a few things that literally jump out at you. The moon (ruling the people) is void at 24 Aquarius in the 11th. There are 4 planets at 21 degrees: Mars (Tau.), Mercury (Vir), Jupiter (Lib.); and Pluto (Sag.). Mars, Jupiter and Pluto are involved in an incredibly tight finger of God yod with Mars (2nd House) as the focal point. The north node is conj. the asc. Venus in Scorpio in the 7th is applying to a trine of Uranus in Pisces in the 12th. I don't see the the heavy Neptune influence that is usually there during a major speech. I think this speech is going to be very significant BUT because of the voc moon the folks listening will not react as expected. This is an amateur's opinion. Would love to hear someone else's two cents.

Posted by: Teresa on September 13, 2005 05:55 PM

Mike, how are things?

Posted by: Teresa on September 13, 2005 05:55 PM

Teresa, I did take a look at the Thursday chart and I think it will be recieved fairly well, although I havn't completed my evaluation I will get back on this. My sense is he will slip by all this but it will be registered in the public's mind and they will be watching. I will get back on this one.

Posted by: Sally on September 13, 2005 06:03 PM

http://www.astroworld.us/archives/000267.html#000267

I wish I had the time to revisit this, but here's the link, and a quote from there(there's a photo of Varuna sinking there too, in New Orleans):

Looking at the Republican chart of 1854, Varuna is sitting at about 19' Sagittarius, directly conjunct Bush's natal south node, and transiting Pluto has come to set them off. Before we get to that, let’s note that the Democrats happen to stumble into this with their progressed Sun at ~19' Sagittarius, being multi-year shadowed by transiting Pluto. You hear it in the press, and it's true, there really is an ongoing battle for the soul of the Democratic Party.

The Democrats are in the midst of rebuilding themselves, while the Republicans are in the midst of tearing it all down. Given the circumstances, the Democrats would do best not to build in the same paradigm structure. In fact, if they do, they will go up in flames, feeding the Republicans power trip all the way down.

USS Varuna (1862-1862)

"The Last Broadside of the Varuna."

Blinded by their desire to annihilate the Democrats (whom serve as the evil ‘other’ projection domestically), the Republican Party, led by George Bush, is putting the finishing touches to a self-destructive gambling spree that is intent on imposing global destabalization. Why does Pluto - Varuna - South Node play out this way?

Pluto is destruction, endings, new beginnings, into transformation or death; Varuna is about “one mans loss is another mans gain”, the karmic turn of events; and the south node is about being stuck in the same old same old, because it works the fear of change.

Bush has Varuna conjunct his Aires midheaven, Pluto is in his first house of identity, and Bush's south node is in his fifth house that includes gambling (and he's used to winning). The Republican Party has Varuna at 19 Sagittarius, probably near conjunct the midheaven.

Posted by: Vis on September 13, 2005 06:06 PM

if the president's speech was during a void of course moon (not sagittarius)
doesn't that mean, it will change nothing; that there is no energy left
to produce effect?

Posted by: mimi on September 13, 2005 06:47 PM

Honey, I'm so sorry, I promise I'll never punch you again!"

Bush Takes Blame For Katrina Blunders

WASHINGTON, D.C. - President Bush said Tuesday that "I take responsibility" for failures in dealing with Hurricane Katrina and said the disaster raised broader questions about the government's ability to respond to natural disasters as well as terror attacks.

http://www.komotv.com/stories/39174.htm

Mike I hope all is well with your friend!
PQ

Posted by: Pat QOP on September 13, 2005 07:15 PM

There's a new poll on fauxnews that is definitely getting freeped - care to weigh in with your take on *'s ability to do the job?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,169228,00.html#poll

Oh, and for those who gave me such good suggestions following that hideous job review, I've just (on Friday) filed a formal grievance. This was at 2:15 pm Friday, 9/9, and was based on (a) discrimination based on my disability and (b) not being credited with all the work I did last year. Anyone out there care to look at whether this will be a successful endeavor?

Thanks
Baraka

Posted by: Baraka on September 13, 2005 08:22 PM

Hello Starrynights/SN: Thanks for your reply.I do expect Delay to be indicted eventually. Texas law wouldn't trump a federal court, would it?

I have never heard that Delay was above the law or protected in anyway. Can you try to remember where you heard or read that? You don't mean protected by a House that knows the truth and refuses to pursue the criminal allegations for the American people.

Personally I feel his crimes have just not caught up with him yet and I will continue to keep myself abreast of what is going on with him. Many of the current scandals go back directly to him, Abermoff, Coingate, Westar, etc., not to mention Texans for a Republican Majority.

Peter Overby (NPR -covers political money)said last Friday evening, that the three most recent indictments may "talk" about their relationship to Delay in an effort to lesson there sentences.

A few months back, one of the astrologers here did a chart/analysis on Delay which did indicate some trouble for him but if I remember correctly, the outcome of his troubles was up in the air.

He should be behind bars.

Beasly: your welcome...it is fasinating stuff!!

Posted by: Beverly on September 13, 2005 08:52 PM

am i the only one who noticed that we had giant solar flares yesterday and Los Angeles had a big power outage?
coincidence?

Posted by: mimi on September 13, 2005 08:56 PM

Good news here!
"Congress to Debate "Fixed" Pre-War Intelligence"
--House Panel will vote on the Lee resolution on the "Downing Street Memo"
http://www.afterdowningstreet.org

Posted by: Beverly on September 13, 2005 09:35 PM

I noticed too, mimi.

Posted by: Peg on September 13, 2005 10:24 PM

* End of the Bush Era

The bush Era is over. The sooner politicians in both parties realize that, the better for them -- and the country.

Recent months, and especially the past two weeks, have brought home to a steadily growing majority of Americans the truth that bush's govt doesn't work. His policies are failing, his approach to leadership is detached and self-indulgent, his way of politics has produced a divided, angry and dysfunctional public square. ... http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/12/AR2005091201433_pf.html

Posted by: JoannaOregon on September 13, 2005 10:46 PM

Starrynights/SN: And others
I have found something I think you might have referred to above about Delay's "protection" due to his jurisdiction since he lives in Sugarland.

According to the Houston Chronicle's article dated September 9, 2005, he is "not out of the woods" yet but living in Sugarland may afford him temporary protection.

http://dailydelay.blogspot.com

go to the third article down titled "On to Fort Bend County? where things could really heat up for him.

Posted by: Beverly on September 13, 2005 11:07 PM

Don't believe those dead body counts by shrub and
the BIG liars. Read below, how brownie less FEMA
has outsourced Katrina body count to firm implicated in body dumping scandals.

http://rawstory.com/admin/dbscripts/printstory.php?story=341

Posted by: Raj on September 13, 2005 11:42 PM

judi g

your astrology question, can you explain what the
question is clearly so that I can try to answer.
If your question is who you are, you're what you are.

Posted by: Raj on September 13, 2005 11:45 PM

Ah heck, I'm a Virgo in either system - 5 Virgo in Sidereal and 29 Virgo in Tropical. No break.

Posted by: Laurie on September 14, 2005 12:32 AM

Virgos are wonderful, Laurie! Both my son & mom Virgos... two people I've loved the most.

Posted by: JoannaOregon on September 14, 2005 12:47 AM

We are in a deep and genuine crisis. This is no longer a game for the moment. One of the reasons Rove was stopped holding his stones. No more superficial spin.
All creatures on this earth are wired for survival. I think this instinct has just kicked into gear in this moment of truth. It's not just here. It is global.
In space, I believe, black holes suck the waste from all the stellar activity. New Orleans is like a black hole on earth revealing all the detritus of human activity. It is shocking and fills us all with shame, appropriate with all this Virgo energy and the urge toward purification. We know we have to straighten up and act right. I can feel it on the streets already.

It is way, way beyond Bush now. There's nothing he can do, nor does he really want to. One big opportunity for us now is to shift our attention away from him and toward the search for the path out of this.

This has been a purge beyond any expectation. When people start talking about their personal voyage through this, the rest of us will be riveted to the spot. The people of this country and the disenfranchised black face, in particular, are now center stage.

Posted by: jm on September 14, 2005 01:31 AM

And keep in mind that our rescue mission has won the hearts of the world. We really do have allies. The one thing folks always say about Americans is that they are basically good people. Maybe we are.

Posted by: jm on September 14, 2005 01:47 AM

jm, I hope you are right.

Re: Virgos, strangely I always am totally compatible with them, although I am a goofy Aquarius.

Maybe it is because I have Neptune in the Fifth in Virgo.

Posted by: Barbara on September 14, 2005 01:53 AM

We'll know more as the full Moon in Pisces peaks in this Virgo/Pisces lunation.

Posted by: jm on September 14, 2005 01:58 AM

Thank you dear JoannaOregon! Virgos are, for the most part, very kind and loyal. It's funny, I actually "feel" more like a Libra with Saturn in 2 Libra conjunct my Sun, and I am extremely justice-minded. Picky picky and extremely organized at work, but laid-back at home (Jupiter retro in the 4th and Sun/Saturn in 10th and, yes, they oppose). He heee enough about me . . .

I saw this astrology piece concerning Katrina and the guy uses Chinese astrology . . . quite interesting! There are two parts to it.

Hurricane Katrina
The Fires of Earth are Stirring
Malvin Artley, astrologer and engineer, gives an esoteric picture of the devastation wrought on August 29, 2005, by Hurricane Katrina, in the light of Chinese astrology. The Gulf States of the USA have been smashed by a natural disaster of tremendous magnitude, for which the government – let alone the population – seems to have been totally unprepared. Malvin argues that this and other recent catastrophic events have been evidence that the planet is undergoing a great spiritual transformation.

http://www.astrologycom.com/katrina1.html

Posted by: Laurie on September 14, 2005 02:05 AM

From my e-mail:

From Tomdispatch comes the most detailed piece yet written on the Bush-administration-allied corporations that ate Iraq and now are preparing to do the same in New Orleans: "Corporations of the Whirlwind, The Reconstruction of New Oraq" -- http://www.tomdispatch.com/index.mhtml?pid=21843 In the aftermath of Katrina, our planet has grown positively claustrophobic and particularly predatory. Iraq and New Orleans now seem to be morphing into a single entity, New Oraq, to be devoured by the same limited set of corporations, let loose and overseen by the same small set of Bush administration officials. In George Bush's new world of globalization, first comes the destruction and only then does one sit down at the planetary table to sup.

Posted by: Pat C on September 14, 2005 03:04 AM

Beverly-
This piece from Daily Kos says that Delay is getting off on a jurisdictional technicality, whatever that is:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/9/13/175730/955

Posted by: Garry on September 14, 2005 03:46 AM

Please read and make your own judgments....I personally hope the positive and just aspects come to pass:

http://www.rense.com/general67/whitehcrime.htm

Posted by: Garry on September 14, 2005 03:51 AM

Laurie, really nice work on the chart of the speech.

My 2 cents worth: There are some interesting stories which one could tell when one compares this chart with the 2nd Innauguration Chart...as well as Shrub's own chart.

I see Chiron at the top of the speech's chart at almost the same position of the 2nd Innaugural Chart where it was opposed by Saturn in Cancer on the cusp of the 4th house and very close to Shrub's natal Saturn.
I see Ceres which was at the descendent of the Innaugural chart now at 27 Scorpio in the 8th of the speech chart, squaring the moon and opposing the Mars by 6 degrees.

Mercury in the Speech chart is 45 degrees away from Saturn and Venus. Not a very comfortable Mercury. Not to mention square the Pluto. Mercury is strong in Virgo, but since Shrub has never convinced me he is good any any kind of thinking, not to mention 'critical thinking,' I'm not sure he will win the day.

The foot of the yod which you mentioned is Mars, but the release point is in Scorpio at 21 Scorpio, if I remember my yod stuff. What trigger will set off this release point? And Mars and Pluto rule the release point of the Yod. Don't know if this means anything, except maybe money, power and death, and bad religion are part of this horrendous picture.

Also Jupiter being part of that yod may be no comfort to Shrub, because he doesn't handle Jupiter well, I think. And the Jupiter is also 135 degrees away from today's Uranus (which opposes Shrub's Mars).

I am watching Ceres here. Her journey through Scorpio and her aspects to the US natal moon, the 2nd Innaugural chart seem to tell the story. I am also watching Chiron and, of course, Saturn.

Posted by: Beasley on September 14, 2005 04:25 AM

Sorry, that chart analysis was Teresa. Forgive please. Good work.

Posted by: Beasley on September 14, 2005 04:45 AM

Virgo's are the best at making lemonaid out of lemons of any of the signs. They also are known for being one of the "youthful" signs and unusual beauty. Workaholics, nit picky and the best editors in the zodiac.

George is standing alone on the rubble with this disaster and someone, maybe "poppy" told him to stand there and take the medicine like a man. They are desperate now because memo's are "leaking" from Homeland Security that he with held aid on purpose in order to make Gov. Blanco turn New Orleans over to the federal government and she wouldn't do it. She would not sign over the city to him and martial law and complete control of reconstruction in George's hands. So he was going to "show' her who was boss. An independent governmental department today said the city and state acted appropriately and the fault was with FEMA. Saturn came lumbering out of his 12th house dragging all that 12th house hidden junk of Bush's with him, throwing himself across George's Ascendant hauling all his dirty laundry and it's only begun to show.

One interesting fact to note, the South Node of the Hurricane Chart was at 14 degrees Libra, transiting Venus was conjunct, Natal US Saturn was conjunct (all disease) Mercury and the Ascendant of 9/11 was conjunct. A whole lot more than the nasty little business down in Louisiana carries the possibility of unearthing the truth of 9/11. That swirling fetid water might soon be up to his neck.

Posted by: Sally on September 14, 2005 06:17 AM

Talk about fetid. That lumbering Saturn is making a bee line for His Pluto.

Posted by: jm on September 14, 2005 06:43 AM

As Saturn is conjunct Mr. Bush's Ascendant and his image has just been reborn as the "Responsibility President", we will soon see if this can be backed up. Since from what I've seen, he is mostly interested in raiding the toy chest and playing dress up, I have my doubts.

Saturn in Leo brings the end of hubris and the beginning of real pride. It is now clear that the public is embarrassed and ashamed, and a question mark has arisen. New Orleans was humiliating and that's a start.
I have always felt that it was the height of hubris to think that man has power over this ancient earth. All the creatures of the earth are her creation, her children, and I trust that she knows how to discipline them. She has experience.

Posted by: jm on September 14, 2005 08:39 AM

Dr. David Broadway, a Denver plastic surgeon, has organized a "Day of Giving" on Oct.1. Broadway is donating the proceeds from four breast augmentation procedures at his clinic to the Red Cross.

The Bosom of Abraham.

Posted by: jm on September 14, 2005 10:03 AM

As I contribute on various threads I've hoped that someone would pick up the word "Shame" in their framing of what took place in the Gulf. Our Gulf.
All this bloviating about 'blame game' would be successfully undermined by using shame and ashamed. The Xtians would resonate with the word also as it perfectly adapts to their worldview.

I recall John Bradshaw's works on inner child stuff (that he lifted from Alice Miller and Robert Firestone but successfully synthesized) that there is appropriate shame and then toxic shame.

Many of us genuine Americans are ashamed of what has been put on public view for the world to see in New Orleans. Most of those in the Administration - and that includes the weakass Dems, too - should rightfully be ashamed of themselves.
I believe there is racism and dismissive lack of regard for the poor and black in our country by the Administration but an overlooked fact is that Americans in general rallied with their hands and hearts and wallets for those brothers and sisters of another color.

I hope that Katrina has provided the Joseph Welch moment ( "Have you no sense of decency, sir? At long last, have you left no sense of decency?") to the perpetrators of this decade's particular flavor of McCarthyism.
from Wikipedia: "The term "McCarthyism" has since become synonymous with any government activity which seeks to suppress unfavorable political or social views, often by limiting or suspending civil rights under the pretext of maintaining national security."

Posted by: bbuster on September 14, 2005 12:40 PM

I found a really cool article this morning: 9/11 The Perpetrators Identified Astrologically: http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=consp_911&Number=293966171#Post293966171

Bush is dead in the water, so to speak. Great story out by E.J. Dionne this morning:End of the Bush Era, http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/12/AR2005091201433.html He's accomplished all he has been tasked to do. It'll be interesting to see who's been chosen to step foward to promulgate the agenda now. My guess is Nancy Pelosi.

Posted by: Peg on September 14, 2005 01:52 PM

Beasley, thank you for expanding on the yod configuration in the speech chart. I think I might actually have to watch it this time. Let me see....where is the margarita mix? (and the barf bucket)

Posted by: Teresa on September 14, 2005 03:21 PM

It is interesting to see how Saturn being directly on Bush's ascendant is affecting him--the worst approval ratings of his presidency, and his having to take responsibility (for the lack of response after Hurrican Katrina) for the first time ever.

Posted by: Lawrence the Leo on September 14, 2005 03:22 PM

WOW Peg, what a find! Very interesting!
PQ

Posted by: Pat QOP on September 14, 2005 03:30 PM

We weren't able to see much of Saturn's influence while it transited Bush's 12th house but the ascendant is the face we present to the world so everything is "out there" to be seen. This has got to be incredibly hard for his little 12th house sun to handle.

Posted by: Teresa on September 14, 2005 03:33 PM

Beasley, Bush's prenatal return has Venus at 21 Scorpio, setting off that yod. With Mars at the Apex and with Jupiter involved he can redeem himself through the reconstruction, which will be the largest government influx of funds into the US since the New Deal. That's his opportunity, however Mars as the apex denotes applying physical energies inefficiently, problems being direct and open. Usually this particular yod indicates and individual finds himself "centered upon a new life course requiring him to mobilize his vital forces in an externally demanding manner. This new period of his life may manifest somewhat suddenly, perhaps under an acute crisis situation..." ...(Dynamics of Aspect Analysis)

If he mismanages this energy it will have fateful consequences creating disruptive situations. The key to this yod is a need to make corrective changes to one's self will.

To date, this president has not shown an interest in making corrective changes in himself (except the apology last night) I do think he will have more oversight in the rebuilding of NO than he has over Iraq, and that oversight will be the people. The SN 14 degree of Libra is significant in the Hurricane chart because of its conj. to transiting Venus, and US Saturn and 9/11 Mercury and Ascendant and GWB's Moon. Another yod will be set up for him in June 2006 when Saturn is at 14 degrees Leo, sextile his Moon/Chiron and Uranus is inconj. them both. This is an erratic and willful energy even lawless, but he has to get to June 2006 before we see that example of his behavior. With all his planets bunched up in only 5 houses, he has a limited range of understanding of situations, his filtered view is very narrow. With transiting Uranus, Neptune and Pluto forming oppositions to that narrow filtered view, he is getting an enforced understanding of others. He is learning that he is not the center of the Universe, we will have to see how he responds to these lessons, thus far his response has not been stellar.

Posted by: Sally on September 14, 2005 04:28 PM

Sally,
shrub with all this unberable stress and saturn stressing him ad infinitum, you think he may break down with a severe heart attack?

Posted by: Raj on September 14, 2005 07:59 PM

Raj-
I'm tempted to reply,"Maybe, if he HAD a heart...."

Posted by: Garry on September 14, 2005 09:00 PM

I'm getting a strange sensation today as the sorrow sets in and we roll on to the Pisces full Moon.

It's time for the last story to be over and to move on to the next imitation of life, but there is a strange desolation and confusion as to where to go next.
The left has half-heartedly picked up its usual totalitarian paranoia, the right is weakly following its usual coverup, the Democrats are doing their usual half-assed attempt to be responsible with their latest failed attempts at starting commissions of inquiry, and everybody is meekly parroting the latest..."Roberts is so brilliant".
I guess everyone's tired.
I am too. A barking dog woke me up too early.

Posted by: jm on September 14, 2005 09:54 PM

I do hope this will work for y'all. If it does, do scroll down to "War Is A Business" and listen to it. It is wonderful (the others aren't bad, either!).
http://www.celticwonderband.com/smallwonder.htm

Posted by: shylurker on September 15, 2005 02:33 AM

Sally, thanks for filling out more of the picture of the Yod and the 911 chart and Bush's prenatal return.

He may speak words tomorrow, but I think the press which we referred to at the beginning of the year (in some post) with so much agitation around no news coming out about Iraq, etc. will now not let his words go unfilmed and/or unanalyzed. That and people like us, and Conyers and who knows who else. There is more than one reason why Chiron is wedged between Neptune and his Moon in his third house of "bloviating." And frankly, I don't think Chiron heals a damn thing unless one gets a little more conscious. It just wounds...very sharply at that. So with my astrological justification for nastiness, I wish him and his brood great grief.

And for all of us heavy "planeted" people in Aquarius and Leo (moi), we are all experiencing a few jagged yods and oppositions ourselves these days. Personally, this last month has been quite a roller coaster ride for me.

A channeler once told me when this war began to never forget that Government was Big Business. That this war would go on until around '07 or '08 and that it would end with a dirty bomb being dropped on a Mideastern desert like region. The implication was that we (USA) would drop the bomb. I take everything with an eye to skepticism, having learned the hard way that I see through the looking glass darkly. But, I agree that Governments are Big Business.

And on the Lebanese front, the American Community School experienced a bomb threat last week. No bomb, but a disquieting event for the students. My old Alma Mater.

Posted by: Beasley on September 15, 2005 03:54 AM

Dear shylurker,

Thank you for celticwonderland. Exquisite music. And "War is a Business" says it all. Everyone should listen to all the cuts on this site. Again, tytyty for leaving this site.

Posted by: Teg on September 15, 2005 04:01 AM

My pleasure, Teg. Heard that cut on the way to work and googled them up once I got there.

Posted by: shylurker on September 15, 2005 04:49 AM

Check this out, it's great stuff on election fraud.
It's at the "old place" and also a new forum, The Progressive and Independent Forum (cool place)
http://www.progressiveindependent.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=120&topic_id=68&mesg_id=68

PS. Thank you all for your prayer and meditation that was requested. Must have packed a power punch because it's all shrouded in mystery but my friend is out and about. More... PEACE

Posted by: mike on September 15, 2005 04:55 AM

Tseka, have you seen this?
http://www.angelfire.com/mn2/sculptorsam/

Posted by: shylurker on September 15, 2005 05:16 AM

Pluto just dumped on Jupiter's magnificent earth.
I wonder what Jupiter has in mind for Pluto when he goes into his territory next month. I wonder if he'll be taking his bolts with him.

Posted by: jm on September 15, 2005 11:18 AM

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/15/politics/politicsspecial1/15legal.html?th=&emc=th&pagewanted=print

September 15, 2005
In Roberts Hearing, Specter Assails Court

Senator Arlen Specter's testy interrogation of Judge John G. Roberts Jr. on the Supreme Court's treatment of Congress may well have left viewers scratching their heads on Wednesday morning, with cryptic references to the "congruence and proportionality test" and to unfamiliar case names like "Lane and Hibbs."

But the line of questioning that Mr. Specter, the Pennsylvania Republican who is Judiciary Committee chairman, chose to pursue offered a window on the increasingly troubled relationship between the court and Congress, as well as on one of the most consequential developments of the Rehnquist court's later years.

In a series of decisions, many written by Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist himself, the court declared unconstitutional acts of Congress that had been passed by broad bipartisan majorities.

Laws permitting public employees to sue state employers for discrimination on the basis of disability and age, and also giving women access to federal court to sue rapists for damages, ran up against the court's new definition of the limits on Congress's power and the justices' insistence that they alone have the final word in interpreting the Constitution.

"I take umbrage at what the court has said, and so do my colleagues," Senator Specter told Judge Roberts.

More...

Posted by: Pat C on September 15, 2005 12:38 PM

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/15/opinion/15herbert.html?th&emc=th

Sick and Abandoned

........

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/15/international/asia/15korea.html?th&emc=th

North Korea Sets New Demand for Ending Arms Program: Money to Buy a Civilian Reactor

Posted by: Pat C on September 15, 2005 12:59 PM

It's the height of folly to put a twerp like this in such a high position of importance and dignity. He has zero experience. he's not old enough to carry the title. It doesn't fit.
He's so tense he's swallowed his own lips. Like my dear friend used to say, "You're wound up like a cheap JC Penney watch." He looks like he's going to blow a gasket.. aneurysm or something. Way too tight. Man, those disappearing lips.

Posted by: jm on September 15, 2005 01:24 PM

Pat C
Your post above re: Specter's comments to judge Roberts, I find most interesting and hopeful. Could it be that Specter has found the key? i'm certain he is correct that even his republican cohorts have anger at losing their power to legislate to the court, not to mention the usurption by the exectutive branch. All those executive memorandums are a new twist in gov. May Specter nurture that seed of discontent!
tseka

Posted by: tseka on September 15, 2005 03:02 PM

Shylurker
Thanks for thinking of me/ sharing this interesting sculture site.
tseka

Posted by: tseka on September 15, 2005 03:04 PM

Sally
I've read and re-read your wonderfilled article. Thank you so much for bringing this little present.

I am thinking about how jyotish as only a limb of the veda...a part of the deeper mystery where words and syllables and even nuance of pronounciation have a greater meaning.

Looking at ayurveda and how it is related to homeopathy was the circuitous path that brought me here to look at astrology as another language that describes the patterns of the spirit.

Thank you so much for sharing this.

tseka

Posted by: tseka on September 15, 2005 03:14 PM

so bush is going to speak tonight,
during another void of course moon.
I think he needs to consult with Nancy Reagan's astrologer!

Posted by: mimi on September 15, 2005 03:20 PM

so bush is going to speak tonight,
during another void of course moon.
I think he needs to consult with Nancy Reagan's astrologer!

Posted by: mimi on September 15, 2005 03:22 PM

tseka,

The Repubs have worked to hard to stack the courts, and it is of course backfiring on them. There is no honor among power mongers.

To that point...

From CNN piece on george's speech today:

Rather than speak before a live audience, Bush is planning to stand alone and broadcast his message directly into the camera from the evacuated city's historic Jackson Square, according to a White House official speaking on condition of anonymity since the site had not been announced.
The square and its most famed landmark, the St. Louis Cathedral, were on high enough ground to avoid flooding but did not escape damage from Katrina's 145-mph winds. Two massive oak trees outside the 278-year-old cathedral came out by the roots, ripping out a 30-foot section of ornamental iron fence and snapping off the thumb and forefinger of the outstretched hand on a marble statue of Jesus.

Posted by: Pat C on September 15, 2005 03:54 PM

Thankfully, Riverbend--the self-described "Girl blogger from Iraq"--is apparently still alive.
A new entry from her is posted on her blog regarding September 11th. A snippet is below.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com/2005_09_01_riverbendblog_archive.html#112647459352403679
----
"It has been four years today. How does it feel four years later?

For the 3,000 victims in America, more than 100,000 have died in Iraq. Tens of thousands of others are being detained for interrogation and torture. Our homes have been raided, our cities are constantly being bombed and Iraq has fallen back decades, and for several years to come we will suffer under the influence of the extremism we didn't know prior to the war.

As I write this, Tel Afar, a small place north of Mosul, is being bombed. Dozens of people are going to be buried under their homes in the dead of the night. Their water and electricity have been cut off for days. It doesnât seem to matter much though because they donât live in a wonderful skyscraper in a glamorous city. They are, quite simply, farmers and herders not worth a second thought.

Four years later and the War on Terror (or is it the War of Terror?) has been won:

Score:
Al-Qaeda ö 3,000
America ö 100,000+

Congratulations."-
------------------------------------
Baghdad Burning
... I'll meet you 'round the bend my friend, where hearts can heal and souls can mend...

Posted by: Pat C on September 15, 2005 03:58 PM

Mimi, regarding George consulting an astrologer: SSSHHHHHH.

Posted by: Janet on September 15, 2005 04:43 PM

Jm,
Your adept narrative of “no lips” Roberts gave me such a belly laugh. That will probably be the first and only laugh I will ever get concerning Roberts. Unfortunately, for all of us this latest Bush outrage will affect the course of American justice long after I am no longer here to rant/cry about the repercussions. Sigh!

Posted by: Starrynights/SN on September 15, 2005 04:49 PM

Poll: Can Smirky turn around public opinion?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3080261/#survey

Posted by: shylurker on September 15, 2005 05:50 PM

Funny......I focused on his funny staring flat looking eyes. They remind me of Betty in the Archie comics.
PQ

Posted by: on September 15, 2005 07:36 PM

Garry,

I thought only one with a HEART will be using
compassion so often in times of Saturn's trying times.

Posted by: Raj on September 15, 2005 07:39 PM

Another good one from Fiore

www.markfiore.com/animation/petro.html

Posted by: Raj on September 15, 2005 07:44 PM

Forhot all important http, so here again

http://www.markfiore.com/animation/petro.html

Posted by: Raj on September 15, 2005 07:46 PM

starrynights,

Laughter is the main ingredient in my medicine chest. I am delighted to be able to share this potent substance.

Even if Roberts gets in, he might not be there long. The future is still an impossible mystery to crack so it does no good to worry too much. We still have our own personal destinies within the uncontrollable framework, and they can be rewarding. I think life is neutral, so we are allowed to enjoy it if we want to while still maintaining a sensitivity to others' plights, and helping them as much as we can. Staying a little bit objective helps the others when they are overwhelmed. And the healthier and emotionally stronger we are, the more we are in a position to do something.

I think there is always a way out of a trap. It's a puzzle, but that's why I think we are all putting our minds together.

Posted by: jm on September 15, 2005 11:04 PM

More on Diebold:

http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00001838.htm

And guess who's in charge of rebuilding NOLA? If you guessed KKKarl, you're (unfortunately) correct:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1783577

Posted by: Garry on September 15, 2005 11:43 PM

Where the NOLA reconstruction money will come from:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/9/15/162119/706

Posted by: Garry on September 15, 2005 11:50 PM

Go have some fun. It's interactive; use your cursor.
http://www.planetdan.net/pics/misc/georgie.htm

Posted by: shylurker on September 16, 2005 01:21 AM

Mike, I'm so glad for you and your friend. Blessed be.

Posted by: Teresa on September 16, 2005 01:21 AM

Claudia Dikinis just posted a humdinger over at Starcats:
http://starcats.com/newsmakers.html

Posted by: shylurker on September 16, 2005 01:54 AM

Listening to speech. He's trying to take the race situation head on.

Entrepreneurs are in. Oh boy.

Lottery drawings for home plots. Oh boy.

Armies of compassion. Humanity. O just cough up more of your money. We need it to bolster our reconstruction of the South.

Bah humbug!

Posted by: Beasley on September 16, 2005 02:19 AM

Shylurker, I just read Claudia's article on Bush. She doesn't pull any punches does she? I wish I had her astrological talent and way with words.

Posted by: Teresa on September 16, 2005 02:27 AM

I couldn't find enough alcohol so I didn't watch the speech. Are the talking heads generally favorable or not?

Posted by: Teresa on September 16, 2005 02:29 AM

Raw Story had this posted (Teresa, generally there isn't ENOUGH alcohol in the world to watch that creep):
By DONNA DE LA CRUZ, Associated Press Writer
19 minutes ago


WASHINGTON - A Pentagon employee was ordered to destroy documents that identified Mohamed Atta as a terrorist two years before the 2001 attacks, a congressman said Thursday.
ADVERTISEMENT

The employee is prepared to testify next week before the Senate Judiciary Committee and was expected to name the person who ordered him to destroy the large volume of documents, said Rep. Curt Weldon (news, bio, voting record), R-Pa.

Weldon declined to name the employee, citing confidentiality matters. Weldon described the documents as "2.5 terabytes" — as much as one-fourth of all the printed materials in the Library of Congress, he added.

Posted by: judi g on September 16, 2005 02:31 AM

Interviewees believe him.
Sincere speech. Fault the Mayor of the City because the federal funds allocated to fix the levees was never used for that purposes.

This was on ABC news' viewing of the speech.

Posted by: Beasley on September 16, 2005 02:32 AM

Fogot the URL...and that is WITHOUT an alcohol excuse! http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050916/ap_on_go_co/sept11_hijackers;_ylt=AouLmA52y0KyzeV4v2TLoSas0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3b2NibDltBHNlYwM3MTY-

Posted by: judi g on September 16, 2005 02:34 AM

Beasley, are they kidding?????? OMG....blame the victim once again....this has been going on for years.....!

Well, we were warned the spin was on....

Posted by: judi g on September 16, 2005 02:36 AM

From Talking Points Memo:

Let's all be clear about one thing.

As we suggested last night, and as President Bush has now put us on notice, the Gulf Coast reconstruction effort is going to be run as a patronage and political operation.

That's not spin or hyperbole. They're saying it themselves.

The president has put Karl Rove in charge of the reconstruction, with a budget of a couple hundred billion dollars.

They've announced this in various ways over the last few days. But here's another, from today's Times ...

Republicans said Karl Rove, the White House deputy chief of staff and Mr. Bush's chief political adviser, was in charge of the reconstruction effort, which reaches across many agencies of government and includes the direct involvement of Alphonso R. Jackson, secretary of housing and urban development.
Call Rove runs political
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operations and manages coalitions through patronage. That's what he does. And that's what this is about.

Everybody realizes that. Don't expect much if any discussion of this point in the major papers or on the networks.

It's shameless. But that's beside the point.

This is a time when the country needs an opposition party. Every Democrat should be hitting on this. Take the politics out of the reconstruction effort. He put his chief spin-doctor in charge of the biggest reconstruction and refugee crisis the country's probably ever faced. That tells you all you need to know about his values. Nothing that happened in the last couple weeks meant anything to him. And nothing has changed. Same as Iraq. Same stuff.

-- Josh Marshall

Posted by: Teresa on September 16, 2005 02:39 AM

Teresa, the talking heads are telling us that he sounds like FDR. Also wondering were the $200 Billion are going to come from....

One tricky point, more than all the others, startled me. That the federal government which is used to organizing huge reconstruction organizations is going to take charge... that on the heels of 9/11 where the federal government took over. So Halibuton, FEMA, the MILITARY.
Give us the gestapo...they will feed us, organize us, make us feel safe.

Posted by: Beasley on September 16, 2005 02:41 AM

Like Claudia said, he's going to promise the moon. Doesn't matter. High expectations will make the reality all that more difficult for his faithful followers.

Posted by: Teresa on September 16, 2005 02:44 AM

Did President Bush regain the political ground he lost in the administration's early response to Hurricane Katrina?


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9359779/#survey

Posted by: Morgana on September 16, 2005 02:47 AM

Just heard on CNN Aron Brown............Mayor Naygin, is rushing the resettlement of NO. Bringing the original inhabitants back! His way to combat Halliburten and white mans wet dream rebuild?
What about the toxic environment there.
What is Naygin's B date??
Missed the speech...but already barfing at the recount! No loss!
PQ

Posted by: Pat QOP on September 16, 2005 03:40 AM

Poll: Did Smirky's speech help?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9359779/#survey

Posted by: shylurker on September 16, 2005 03:52 AM

Poll: Whaddya think of Smirky's reconstruction plan for NO?
http://www.cnn.com/

Posted by: shylurker on September 16, 2005 04:10 AM

Oops, Morgana! I see you posted the MSNBC poll first. I was in such a hurry that I didn't check to see if it had already been posted. My apologies.

Posted by: shylurker on September 16, 2005 04:15 AM

"...High expectations will make the reality all that more difficult for his faithful followers."

And THAT, surely, is the silver lining?

Thanks, Teresa.

Posted by: Lori on September 16, 2005 05:45 AM

Yes, Mayor Ray Nagin said today on TV that people can start coming back beginning this weekend. "I figure 200,000 to start and then ramp up to the 500,000 we had or even more...everyone's going to want to come here."

Gov. says, "We're going to rebuild...that's what Americans do!"

And it sure does seem they aren't on any page of Bush's playbook. They got chutzpah! Cajones! I love them, I do! And I know they know the only chance they have to put the brakes on whatever the Billionaire Boys' Club has in mind is to get the place loaded up with witnesses and protesters in the form of people living in the city.

Don't know how that fits in with the "this place is a deathtrap of poisons" scenario, and it's always hard to know when the EPA is telling the truth, or not. I was flabbergasted (!) to hear that lights were back on, etc., a couple days ago, after everyone seeming to say, "This will take months..."

They're fighting for their city & state. Haven't they set up a reconstruction trust fund, the Gov did, didn't she? Otherwise, I don't know where they'll get the $, but then where will US get it (beside China...hahaha)

Seems there may be a fight brewing behind calm faces. May the home team win!!

Posted by: Lori on September 16, 2005 05:54 AM

There are a few areas that didn't flood or, if they did, they've been remediated. They include the French Quarter, the CBD (Center Business District), Algiers (across the MS River on the West Bank) and Uptown (where I live). I can actually go home one week from tomorrow. We've been there twice to check it out and pick up stuff -- our area never had flooding but lots of trees down and moderate roof damage. We've lost lots of shingles but no wholes. Our neighbor next door had her huge tree fall on her pretty cottage - she had it cut back this year but it just didn't seem to be enough.

We took the plunge and went to my mother-in-law's area today where the water was pretty close to the eaves of the roof. The cat was left home with lots of food and water because my 84 year old (but very beautiful and smart) mother-in-law thought he'd be too traumatized to travel. Not a good decision. If the levees hadn't broke, he would have have been fine. My sister-in-law in Montana got on the phone right after Katrina hit, trying to get him rescued but, not knowing if that was the case, we went in gingerly especting to find a dead white, flame-point Siamese. With great appreciation and relief, we noted he was not there. Someone had neatly cut out a triangle in the sliding glass door and must have recued him! We figure he had to be alive or we would have smelled a different smell. Other than that, EVERYTHING on the ground - which was finally mostly dry - was covered with a coat of sewerage infested mud. The goal was to get inside and get the jewelry and some valuable figurines, etc. My other sister-in-law, who lives in NOLA, went in with Myron, my husband. She would not wear gloves! We had them and she wouldn't put them on. I've had problems with her all along but never suspected it would before this. People might say she's under pressure but I've realized she is cock sure and stubborn, reckless and rebellious, at age 55. Too bad. Anywhere, I was grossed out at my family members stubborn insistence on going in, getting our clothes and shoes dirty, probably areas of the car interior, although we tried to avoid that. My mother-in-law did not have flood insurance (although I suggested it a few years back). Neither did my sister-in-law. I don't even think my mother in law can come up with wind storm damage -- I didn't see any. So, we are pooling together in a team effort to try to get some other family income property repaired so it will bring in income! As you might suspect, housing is scarse. Ours won't be ready for a few months though.

Just one comment. There was suffering, neglect and loss of lives among the poor black (and white) community. Whatever the reason - lack of transporation, or just not realizing and accepting the danger they were in -- but the white community had a great property loss. All of the areas within at least a 5-10 mile radius of Lake Pontchitrain were inundated and most of those were not poor homes -- they were in the $300-500,000 range. Not all of them will be covered by insurance. Much of that area might be be condemned. As far as the rich developers wanting that land, why would they? Even with the levees fixed and using the Dutch system (as our mayor said today, we are still in a hurricane zone. This will happen again. The coastline erosion problem will take a long time to remedy, if it even happens. At least I heard that the casinos in MS are thinking of moving inland to rebuild.

I think this City will continue to have an African American majority and will continue to express itself with great diversity. I'm glad that Lori and others are pointing out that the local governments are trying to get control before the fed. contractors can. Well see what kind of power struggle ensues. Our mayor made an interesting comment today. He said that for the first time in a long time, NOLA is without drugs and violence, and he intends to keep it that way. I don't think that is a racist comment because not all poor youth choose drugs and violence. Everyday on the local news there used to be a miniumum of 3 murders. It will be a hard to grasp but welcome change to have a peaceful community for a change. Hopefully, that will last.

Namaste,
Sharon

Posted by: on September 16, 2005 06:54 AM

There are a few areas that didn't flood or, if they did, they've been remediated. They include the French Quarter, the CBD (Center Business District), Algiers (across the MS River on the West Bank) and Uptown (where I live). I can actually go home one week from tomorrow. We've been there twice to check it out and pick up stuff -- our area never had flooding but lots of trees down and moderate roof damage. We've lost lots of shingles but no wholes. Our neighbor next door had her huge tree fall on her pretty cottage - she had it cut back this year but it just didn't seem to be enough.

We took the plunge and went to my mother-in-law's area today where the water was pretty close to the eaves of the roof. The cat was left home with lots of food and water because my 84 year old (but very beautiful and smart) mother-in-law thought he'd be too traumatized to travel. Not a good decision. If the levees hadn't broke, he would have have been fine. My sister-in-law in Montana got on the phone right after Katrina hit, trying to get him rescued but, not knowing if that was the case, we went in gingerly especting to find a dead white, flame-point Siamese. With great appreciation and relief, we noted he was not there. Someone had neatly cut out a triangle in the sliding glass door and must have recued him! We figure he had to be alive or we would have smelled a different smell. Other than that, EVERYTHING on the ground - which was finally mostly dry - was covered with a coat of sewerage infested mud. The goal was to get inside and get the jewelry and some valuable figurines, etc. My other sister-in-law, who lives in NOLA, went in with Myron, my husband. She would not wear gloves! We had them and she wouldn't put them on. I've had problems with her all along but never suspected it would before this. People might say she's under pressure but I've realized she is cock sure and stubborn, reckless and rebellious, at age 55. Too bad. Anywhere, I was grossed out at my family members stubborn insistence on going in, getting our clothes and shoes dirty, probably areas of the car interior, although we tried to avoid that. My mother-in-law did not have flood insurance (although I suggested it a few years back). Neither did my sister-in-law. I don't even think my mother in law can come up with wind storm damage -- I didn't see any. So, we are pooling together in a team effort to try to get some other family income property repaired so it will bring in income! As you might suspect, housing is scarse. Ours won't be ready for a few months though.

Just one comment. There was suffering, neglect and loss of lives among the poor black (and white) community. Whatever the reason - lack of transporation, or just not realizing and accepting the danger they were in -- but the white community had a great property loss. All of the areas within at least a 5-10 mile radius of Lake Pontchitrain were inundated and most of those were not poor homes -- they were in the $300-500,000 range. Not all of them will be covered by insurance. Much of that area might be be condemned. As far as the rich developers wanting that land, why would they? Even with the levees fixed and using the Dutch system (as our mayor said today, we are still in a hurricane zone. This will happen again. The coastline erosion problem will take a long time to remedy, if it even happens. At least I heard that the casinos in MS are thinking of moving inland to rebuild.

I think this City will continue to have an African American majority and will continue to express itself with great diversity. I'm glad that Lori and others are pointing out that the local governments are trying to get control before the fed. contractors can. Well see what kind of power struggle ensues. Our mayor made an interesting comment today. He said that for the first time in a long time, NOLA is without drugs and violence, and he intends to keep it that way. I don't think that is a racist comment because not all poor youth choose drugs and violence. Everyday on the local news there used to be a miniumum of 3 murders. It will be a hard to grasp but welcome change to have a peaceful community for a change. Hopefully, that will last.

Namaste,
Sharon

Posted by: on September 16, 2005 07:15 AM

This is a big one, Sharon.
It sure does remind you of the unpredictability of life.
The inevitable surprises.

Posted by: jm on September 16, 2005 10:10 AM

Sharon, Thanks ever so much for thinking of us and taking the time to let us know how you are doing. Your latest message is very heartening. Do you mind if I share it with a couple of people who are very concerned about what the "real" situation is there in NO? Many thanks. Stay well.

Posted by: shylurker on September 16, 2005 02:11 PM

A few quick comments. It is interesting that Varuna should come up so often when my article showed up on Vedic astrology. He was once god of the heavens and was also the forefather of a great lineage in Vedic astrology--the Bhrigu lineage, which has ties to Venus.
I agree that the Vedic system can seem too gloomy. It depends on the practitioner and in the practitioner's ability to see past karma and how to ameliorate karma or make the most of it. Most Vedic astrologers prescribe remedies which range from palliatives to direct action. So it is not fatalistic by any means.

Gary Gomes

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