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Life Is But A Dream: The Sign of the Fish and the Progressed U.S. Chart
by Isabelle Ghaneh
For the progressed chart in its entirety, Leo the sign of royalty is on the ascendant and is at 25 degrees, using the time given for the Sibly chart which is 5:10 p.m. in Philadelphia, PA for July 4, 1776. The progressed ascendant has been in Leo for quite awhile, but its ruler, the Sun, has just changed hands, from eclectic humanitarian Aquarius, to the sign of the 12th house, mystical Pisces. What does Pisces as an astrological sign symbolize? Pisces is ruled by Neptune. Neptune rules the sea and the waterways, gas and oil, fog and mist, and anesthesia. Pisces deals with the 12th house, known before modern day astrological sensibilities as the house of self undoing. Pisces is escapism, the realm of drugs, drinking and self destruction. Pisces is also artistic achievement at its highest level. As such Neptune rules the film industry and photography, along with poetry and dance. And finally, Pisces is empathy for another’s pain and suffering and even beyond that empathy, into the merging of one’s self into the consciousness of another and actually feeling what they are feeling. So that’s a very brief synopsis of Pisces. Now how does that translate into the national identity of the U.S. for the next 30 or so years? And consider that with Leo on the ascendant, the ruler of the chart is the Sun until the progressed ascendant moves into Virgo, so the Sun is doubly accented for the next 6 years, until the change occurs. This is just the progressed chart I am talking about now, so it’s a sideline to the real deal, the natal U.S. chart. I don’t want it to be considered as a bona fide version of reality, just a glimpse into what is going on in the U.S. on a more metaphysical level of awareness. The progressed Moon is in Cancer and again, that’s water, and it’s home and security and safety, which is of course echoed by progressed Vesta, now square to the progressed Sun, as stated earlier. The PMoon is square the PMars. Emotionally there is a lot of anger under the surface of the U.S. population about a lot of things and it’s all related to the issues of the sign of Cancer. Cancer is hoarding for kith and kin, it’s money, i.e. social security and not having enough to live on, and memories of old black and white newsreels of the bread lines during the 1930’s. Progressed Mercury is retrograding in the chart and it’s on the descendant, the sign of one’s partners, and enemies. Next year at this time, the progressed descendant will be ahead of Mercury and Mercury will have dropped down into the 6th house. But for now Mercury retrogrades where we are at in our collective 7th house issues. I think that means we are looking backwards instead of forwards in our closest relationships. Once the Moon drops down into the 12th house in February of 2006 and then changes signs into Leo in April of 2006 we are going to be dealing with a lot of submerged energy and a strong fiery amount of suppressed energy at that, for a kind of Mars in Pisces effect. Again that’s great for working out issues creatively, and doing spiritually work, but not so great for being comfortable expressing anger. Unexpressed anger can be a real component in the passive/aggressive syndrome some people experience, and can also be a symptom for substance abuse. A 12th house emphasis can be a sign of hiding our collective heads in the sand, and not wanting to face the harsh realties that surround us. It doesn’t help, it doesn’t change things, but it does make us feel good for that moment. I know I’ve done it myself, and I think we all have. In summery, it appears on a metaphysical level that we as a country are drifting into a ‘don’t tell me I don’t want to know‘, along with a ‘what’s on American Idol tonight’ kind of mentality, a please let me escape this so I can feel good mentality. It is the exact mentality that will allow someone, or a group of someones, who are not content to drift down the river and watch the clouds go by while looking at lotus blossoms, take us and I do mean us as in the U.S. someplace we don’t want to go. One final note, it is interesting that once the U.S. progressed ascendant changes into Virgo in about 6 years, the majority of planets in the progressed chart will be in either the 2nd or the 8th houses, which deal with resources, our own and other peoples. At that point, I think we will begin to be aware of what is going on around us, like it or not. Again this is just one take on the progressed Sun in Pisces, there are so many other facets of it that many articles could be written about it, but this is just one aspect I wanted to point out.
Sally Cheyne McDonald on May 18 | Link
Comments
Thank you Isabelle, very very interesting! Posted by: Laurie on May 18, 2005 01:43 AMWhat a good reminder, Isabelle. You speak as though you have a great familiarity with Neptune. I think the prisons and all the abuse are a major manifestation of the beginning of this progression. Since Pisces rules suffering it can also be the perpetrator, the sadist. Ward Churchill's comment about our foreign policy and the "little Eichmanns" is also interesting. Eichmann was a Pisces. I think this abuse revelation will continue and be a great lesson for the "US" as the Sun progresses through Pisces. Posted by: jm on May 18, 2005 01:47 AM
That's a wonderful article, Isabelle. I always enjoy seeing you here on AstroWorld. :-) Posted by: Jonathan on May 18, 2005 02:49 AMThank you so much for all the kind comments, I do so enjoy posting at AW, and thank you again to Sally for being so generous. Posted by: Isabelle Ghaneh on May 18, 2005 03:28 AM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,5196122-103550,00.html Posted by: wv on May 18, 2005 03:32 AMOr, Isabelle, as the dolphins sing in "A Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy," as they all leave earth just before its blown-up to make room for an intergalactic parking lot: "Goodbye and thanks for the the fish!!!" (think Seaworld and other Dolphin performing circuses).
Or, Isabelle, as the dolphins sing in "A Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy," as they all leave earth just before its blown-up to make room for an intergalactic parking lot: "Goodbye and thanks for the the fish!!!" (think Seaworld and other Dolphin performing circuses). So, see ya later and thanks for an interesting take on the next few years :-) Boy that Gallaway is something. Love to hear more from him. Posted by: Sharon on May 18, 2005 04:16 AMthat's "thanks for ALL the fish" (Neptune transiting Mercury :-) Posted by: Sharon on May 18, 2005 04:17 AMIsabelle,Thanks for the insightful article Yep wv, "But Mr Galloway Goes To Washington had never really been an exercise in clarifying the facts. It was an exercise in giving Norm Coleman, and, by extension, the Bush administration, a black eye - mere days after the bloody nose that the Respect MP took credit for having given Tony Blair. And it went as well as Mr Galloway could have wished". Posted by: Starrynight/SN on May 18, 2005 04:20 AMIsabelle, Carolyn Baker: 'The religious right: Pushing a deadly addiction' hmmm...very interesting but how does it explain this. bush approve 43% sounds like some people are waking up maybe the country is actually vulnerable to a take over by the un-usual suspects, the people who really care. just a thought. Posted by: mike on May 18, 2005 05:55 AMThanks Isabelle. More on . . . .The Neptune Cycle http://www.stariq.com/Main/Articles/P0006285.HTM Posted by: Laurie on May 18, 2005 12:10 PMThis article's title is "Life is but a dream". The rest of the song before that would be "Row, row row your boat, gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily......."
Please help me to understand the U.S. Chart, because I am totally confused. I do understand the chart coming into existence on 4 July 1776. Where my misunderstanding occurs is how the ascendant is ascertained. Is the Sibley chart one which reflects a US natal ascendant of Sagittarius? What is the name of the U.S. chart which reflects Gemini Ascendant? Not being an astrologer, but one who is keenly interested in the topic, and based on just observing the way the U.S. acts and comparing it with the various descriptions ascribed to the signs, the U.S. acts much like a teenager and the sign of the twins being the ascendant seems to be a logical conclusion -- a two party political system; the Twin Towers' place in history. Then at times, it seems Sagittarius is the sign of the ascendant. I guess you can really see how confused I am, especially when one reads the writings of another astrologer who insists the U.S. has a Scorpio ascendant, which I do not believe, having a number of Scorpio ascendant relatives to contend with (smiles). Anyone's attempt to help me understand would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. Posted by: Truewater2 on May 18, 2005 04:35 PMTruewater, I have 0 deg. Scorpio rising....which of course, is the most powerful place for a rising sign to be, as Isabelle said aboute... .and would love to have the US chart be Scorpio rising. But I understand how difficult it is to deal with Scorpionic quietude and judgement also....my teacher in astrology insists the Sibley is the only one....but if I remember right, Sally says the Scorpio one works....I don't know, all I know is that the US is in a bad way, not to mention the rest of the world (astrology isn't just for US, to make a pun) I have a question for the rest of us here....how many of you have read Barbara Hand Clow? I am rereading her book The Pleiadian Agenda, which I purchased close to 10 years ago and couldn't understand. Now it makes complete sense! Especially about the World Management Team.....and the Splitting of 1998. And of course, the Galactic Center is the subject of all of it.... BTW...from the Scotsman on Galloway's performance ...they are used to his blustering, as they called it....but we in America are used to people prevaricating socially....so to me that was a huge burst of fresh air....to them it was:: Dane Rudhyar wrote about the controversy over the rising sign for the US chart. http://www.khaldea.com/rudhyar/aad/aad_frontispiece.shtml This long out-of-print online book features a birth chart of the United States with the 14th degree of Sagittarius Rising - timed according to historical records. "The Astrology of America's Destiny" is as timely and significant today as when it was written in 1973 during the Watergate Crisis. I have been looking for the Gemini rising chart but haven't found it, so I am just as confused about all of it also, and don't have time to look it all up. Posted by: judi gemini on May 18, 2005 05:47 PMThe following article is what I hate about the Bill Clinton: Iraq Changes Good for Region By JAN M. OLSEN, Associated Press Writer
Clinton met with Danish Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen and a number of Danish lawmakers during his visit. The former president spoke with reporters before flying to Jordan for a poverty conference. "The Sunnis and the Shiites, the Kurds and all the various tribes can work out accommodations that will allow them to build a stable society, I think that will be good for Iraq and good for the Middle East," Clinton said at the end of a two-day visit to Denmark. In January, Iraq held the its first democratic parliamentary elections to choose a 275-member National Assembly and provincial legislatures. "There is no point living in the past," Clinton said. "Look at where we are now. Everyone, all freedom-loving people would be better off with a genuinely representative, effective, free government in Iraq whatever your feelings are about what went on before." Galloway was right. It is a puppet government under our control. All we want is 14 bases and oil
Thanks, Judy Gemini, I'm going to check out the links you gave, and when I come back, you and I can have a chat (smiles) Posted by: Truewater2 on May 18, 2005 06:04 PMTruewater...smiles back to you....http://www.handclow2012.com/astroflash.htm#The%20WTC%20Bombing Barbara Hand Clow also adds stuff to the mix!!!! Maybe Isabelle can add some clarification also. Posted by: judi gemini on May 18, 2005 06:19 PMGeorge Calloway slammed and dunked that stupid repug norm coleman(must call that jerk abnorm) http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?s.d=05/05/18/1435204 Posted by: Raj on May 18, 2005 06:21 PMhttp://www.democracynow.org/article.pl/sid=05/05/18/1435204 corrected site above Posted by: Raj on May 18, 2005 06:24 PMhttp://www.democracynow.org/article.pl/sid=05/05/18/1435204 Posted by: Raj on May 18, 2005 06:33 PMhttp://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/05/18/1435204 Posted by: Raj on May 18, 2005 06:42 PMOf course Galloway is in the reality based world, no wonder the Senators didn't get it! Boy, can that man parse the english language........magnificent! Is Newsweek being scapegoated? Needs help. Posted by: shylurker on May 18, 2005 07:04 PMWill the Old Warheads, like the Old Soldiers, never fade away? Does the US need Star Wars? (Scroll down a bit, on yr right.) Posted by: shylurker on May 18, 2005 07:11 PMJeeezzz... I so utterly sick of all the total phallus-floppin' all the time. Just suffocated! Posted by: JoannaOregon on May 18, 2005 09:07 PMmore of the dirty rotten heart of the gop... R Posted by: judi gemini on May 18, 2005 09:21 PMAmazing! I just wrote two posts in a row and deleted both of them. It seems almost pointless to post anything to this Board anymore unless I do so with vitriolic anger coupled with a healthy dose of out-of-control, myopic Clinton bashing. To post anything without those two elements, I'm sure to get flamed within an inch of my life! Carry on ... Posted by: Jonathan on May 18, 2005 10:31 PMDear dear Jonathan, I know what you mean!!! :-) Posted by: Laurie on May 18, 2005 11:55 PMThanks, PQ, for posting the link http://smirkingchimp.com/article.php?sid=21131&mode=&order=0 I just read this article. It's quite long and very interesting. What struck me was the fact (those of you who've been around recovered addicts know this) that it isn't uncommon for addicts to become fervently religious. In fact, non-fervently religious recovered addicts have told me it's like those people substitute religion for their former drug of choice; in other words, still actively addicted! I never thought I'd be able to understand all those non-sensical fundies. This article went a LONG way towards me having some understanding of them. Posted by: Lori on May 19, 2005 12:04 AMHey, Jonathan (and Laurie), I understand what you're saying; personally, I love reading flaming hot posts like the ones to which you refer. I enjoy reading all the posts. Including yours, Jonathan! So I encourage you to post what you have to say, even if it's POSITIVE and OPTIMISTIC!!!!!!!!! Yeeeeeehaaaaaaaa!!! (sincerely!) Posted by: on May 19, 2005 12:07 AMPQ, Sorry your son is ill. I wish him well in his recovery and will surround both of you in white light. Your experience above reminds me of my mother's experience in the South Florida healthcare system. You can imagine the kind of attention they give to the elderly (NOT!) since there are so many of them and they are really disposable. I had to put a lot of effort into figuring out how to get good care for my mother and, in many cases, getting real information from the doctors. But I had to smile. You also reminded me of Shirley Maclain in the film where her daughter (Debra Winger) is dying of cancer and needs pain meds. She goes to the nurses station and after being given the brush off a few times, jumps up and down, screaming over & over "My daughter is in pain, please give her her medication!" One of my favorite all time movie scenes - it really touches a chord. Posted by: Sharon on May 19, 2005 12:39 AM"Terms of Endearment" Just a great film. Posted by: Sharon on May 19, 2005 12:41 AMLori- And Jonathan--post away, good sir, this place is supposed to be about healthy discourse and the exchange of ideas, unless you happen to be spewing the rightwingnut Kool-Aid. We can get that elsewhere. I think most of us here realize the good the Clintons did and the good things they tried to do, but let's not forget, ultimately, they're politicians--- and when they start getting chummy with the likes of the Shrub and Newt Gingrich and Bush 1, I for one, sense that something is not quite right. During the President Clinton era you'd have thought that the Newt and Bill/Hillary would sooner come to blows...now we're supposed to believe they're the best of pals? I'm not bashing anyone's idea of friendship or their circumstances, but the whole thing seems a little odd(even somewhat contrived) to me, esp. in light of Hillary's (unstated) presidential aspirations....seems to me, given the current state of affairs, the proper platform would be anti-GOP, not Republican-lite, unless she's far more calculating than I suspect..... the e-floor is open---c'mon, smart people, give me some opinions!!! Posted by: Garry on May 19, 2005 02:15 AM
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/gate/archive/2005/05/18/notes051805.DTL&type=printable Posted by: wv on May 19, 2005 02:44 AMIf you liked what George Galloway said, send him an email!!!! gallowayg@parliament.uk Namaste and white light to all!!! Posted by: Garry on May 19, 2005 02:53 AMHey, Garry, Garry, I got no opinions in my head right now (a rare moment indeed). I'm preoccupied with my personal life and my BAAAAAD mood right now. (haha, but it's true!) Sorry, forgot to enter my name up there at 12:07. Anyway, Garry, FUNNY!!! Good ole Cheech y Chong! But, whaddya mean, "some things effect your memory?" I don't get it! (kidding!) I also wanted to say hi to Mike (hi, Mike) and second the motion: hear hear for the un-usual suspects! YEA them! ok, Jonathan, really, where ARE you? Posted by: Lori on May 19, 2005 03:27 AMSharon, Does any one know the time Bill Frist was born? His birthdate is February 22, 1952, in Nashville. Does any one know of any astrologer who has worked with his chart? This man, with all his craziness and ambition, could destroy what we have left of a country. Thanks. Posted by: shylurker on May 19, 2005 05:29 AMGo over to salon.com, watch a commercial for a few seconds and get a day pass. Sidney Blumenthal has posted yet another awesome article, this one about abuse of the Koran, about torture of human beings in our name and with our tax dollars, and about ordering the messenger to take the blame. Anything, annnnnnnnythinnnnnng other than assume responsibility. Posted by: shylurker on May 19, 2005 06:20 AMShylurker, and as for Frist, you know of course that his brothers and father own the huge healthcare conglomerate..we don't have it in CA..which was Humana (? is that right, Columbia Humana? - the east coasters can straighten me out, CHC? They went around buying up all the public hospitals (sometimes bribing county supervisors to get approval) and then closed them down and striping assets. Leaving the county without healthcare for the public....af (I remember seeing the programs on PBS exposing them on that, but NO MORE, not with these new guys, there will be no more exposure). They also are the biggest fraud violators of Medicare and have been fined 1 Billion bucks for ripping off Medicare).... Posted by: judi gemini on May 19, 2005 06:21 AMBill Clinton's degree is in international relations....apparently he is using it now. He has always hung with the big boys and always will. Newt Gingrich was once upon a time a Democrat. Hillary Clinton was once a Republican. Bill Clinton IS the adult child of an alcoholic....but he is still the smartest one we've seen in a long time. And don't forget, Anakin Skywalker became Darth Vadar. Everything black is white, and white is black...which is always what you get when you live in times like these....how the hell do you think Alice and Wonderland got written? hahahahahah..... Posted by: judi gemini on May 19, 2005 06:33 AMThis is in the catagory of Sally's last article ... and Michael Jackson is still on trial..
This is really swell! Remember when we ( Move-On) wrote last year to object to Dr. Hager's appointment to the advisory committee for reproductive health drugs in the FDA.............. Well now the DIRT'S out on him! http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20050530&s=mcgarvey
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http://www.sfbayview.com/081804/Depleteduranium081804.shtml Posted by: wv on May 19, 2005 12:59 PM
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/printer_051905Z.shtml Posted by: wv on May 19, 2005 03:58 PMshylurker, Oh, Raj, from your keyboard to the universe's ear. I do hope! Posted by: shylurker on May 19, 2005 06:28 PMgood lord, folks, look what I got in my email today....and isn't it a felony to threaten murder on someone? this came from a friend in the SF bay area, but he could have gotten it from someone else....my friend is trying to find out who the guy who said this is....
Here's your opportunity to participate in earth-shattering events. Will Pickles' trip to the ME help the US image? http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3080261/#survey Posted by: shylurker on May 19, 2005 06:47 PMjudi, YES it is a crime! Isabelle, thanks so much for this peice. Neptune is such an amazing planet. Understanding it seems to be unending. You've expanded my perspective. Posted by: Pat C on May 19, 2005 06:52 PMhttp://www.salon.com/news/feature/2005/05/19/lies/print.html The lies that led to war - - - - - - - - - - - - When Newsweek's source admitted that he had misidentified the government document in which he had seen an account of Quran desecration at Guantánamo prison, Pentagon spokesman Lawrence Di Rita exploded, "People are dead because of what this son of a bitch said. How could he be credible now?"
Tens of thousands of people are dead in Iraq, including more than 1,600 U.S. soldiers and Marines, because of false allegations made by President George W. Bush and Di Rita's more immediate boss, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, about Saddam Hussein's nonexistent weapons of mass destruction and equally imaginary active nuclear weapons program. Bush, Rumsfeld, Vice President Dick Cheney and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice repeatedly made unfounded allegations that led to the continuing disaster in Iraq, much of which is now an economic and military no man's land beset by bombings, assassinations, kidnappings and political gridlock. And we now know, thanks to a leaked British memo concerning the head of British intelligence, that the Bush administration -- contrary to its explicit denials -- had already made up its mind to attack Iraq and "fixed" those bogus allegations to support its decision. In short, Bush and his top officials lied about Iraq. Going to war is the most serious decision a president can make. It should never be approached in a cavalier fashion. American lives, the prestige and influence of the country, international relations, the health of its defenses, and the future of the next generation are at stake. Yet every single piece of evidence we now have confirms that George W. Bush, who was obsessed with unseating Saddam Hussein even before 9/11, recklessly used the opportunity presented by the terror attacks to march the country to war, fixing the intelligence to justify his decision, and lying to the American people about the reasons for the war. In other times, this might have been an impeachable offense. More... Posted by: Pat C on May 19, 2005 07:04 PMLovely brave soul. http://homepage.mac.com/onegoodmove/movies/galloway.html Posted by: Pat C on May 19, 2005 07:08 PMhttp://www.nwanews.com/story_print.php?paper=adg&Editorial=section&storyid=116806 A convenient furor Gene Lyons Posted on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 Newsweek-- The latest orchestrated ’s bungled at Guantanamo story furor about flush over - prison guards flushing the Koran down the toilet comes at a convenient time for the White House. So convenient that conspiracists might suspect the anonymous Pentagon official who fed the allegation to ace reporter Michael Isikoff but recanted after rioting in Afghanistan deliberately set the magazine up for a fall. But that would assume a level of planning and foresight of which the Bush administration frankly seems incapable. What this White House is good at—all it’s really good at—is deflecting blame for its own catastrophic blunders by diverting attention. How ironic that Isikoff, with a long-demonstrated weakness for singlesource stories, turns out to be the stooge. (His book, "Uncovering Clinton," actually quotes an anonymous caller’s smutty allegations against Bill Clinton exactly one page before condemning Internet gossip Matt Drudge as a "menace to... responsible journalism. ") It’s amusing to see Linda Tripp and Lucianne Goldberg’s hero during the Clinton impeachment made the latest right-wing bête noire. (That’s French for a clay pigeon.) Two things need to be said about Newsweek’s error. (Disclosure: I once worked for the magazine and have friends there, none involved in this incident.) First, White House press spokesman Scott McClellan’s attempt to blame Newsweek for deaths in the Afghan riots reeks of hypocrisy. No less an authority than Gen. Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, insisted that the disturbances stemmed from local politics, not the alleged desecration of the Muslim holy book at a faraway prison. Of course, that was before Isikoff’s source recanted, so Myers may have been in CYA mode. Second, Myers had to suspect that the Newsweek story might be accurate. Allegations by former prisoners that U.S. Army interrogators at Guantanamo abused the Koran have been published in The Washington Post, The New York Times, The Philadelphia Inquirer and several European newspapers. They’ve appeared in lawsuits filed in the U.S. and Britain. Given that Army reports document female interrogators parading halfnaked in front of detainees, touching them provocatively, even smearing fake menstrual blood on their faces in grotesque attempts to exploit fears of ritual impurity, mistreatment of the Koran seems quite likely. Indeed, the only news value in Newsweek’s brief item was its seeming confirmation of an old tale. Anyway, here’s the story White House spin artists don’t want you paying attention to. During the run-up to the British election, The Sunday Times of London published a previously top-secret government memorandum dated July 23, 2002. It reported on Prime Minister Tony Blair and other British officials’ meetings with their American counterparts about Iraq. Of particular interest were the findings of Sir Richard Dearlove, known as" C, "the head of MI6, the British CIA. Here’s the key paragraph:" C reported on his recent talks in Washington. There was a perceptible shift in attitude. Military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy.... There was little discussion in Washington of the aftermath after military action. " Invading and occupying Iraq, in short, was a done deal months before President Bush began his sales campaign in September 2002. The war would be justified by claiming a link between terrorism and weapons of mass destruction. " But the case was thin, "the memo added." Saddam was not threatening his neighbors, and his WMD capacity was less than that of Libya, North Korea or Iran. " Repeat: "[T] he intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy." Now in British usage, "fixed" doesn’t signify deliberate corruption; it’s more like "arranged." A decision had been reached, and the "intelligence" was being shaped to fit it. Here’s how Bush explained it during his 2003 State of the Union message: "U.S. intelligence indicates that Saddam Hussein had upwards of 30,000 munitions capable of delivering chemical agents.... [W] e know that Iraq, in the late 1990s, had several mobile biological weapons labs. These are designed to produce germ warfare agents, and can be moved from place to a place to evade inspectors.... The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa. Our intelligence sources tell us that he has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes suitable for nuclear weapons production. Saddam Hussein has not credibly explained these activities. He clearly has much to hide." As the deaths keep mounting—1,613 American soldiers, more than 300 allied troops and private contractors, not to mention tens of thousands of Iraqis—it’s worthwhile remembering that none of that turned out to be true. Having given no thought to the aftermath of invasion, the White House now insists that all is well as Iraq spirals into a bloody civil war its U.S.-sponsored government appears powerless to prevent. If not, blame the messenger. Posted by: Pat C on May 19, 2005 07:12 PMThe Bush administration has issued a proposal that would allow wastewater treatment plants to dump barely treated sewage into American lakes, rivers, and streams whenever it rains. Allowing routine sewage dumping isn't just gross, it's also a serious threat to public health and the environment - the Bush administration proposal will increase the number of people who are exposed to bacteria, viruses, parasites, toxics and other pollution in water. Fortunately, many Members of Congress are standing up to the White House to keep sewage out of the water. They've proposed an amendment to make sure that routine sewage dumping remains illegal, and it's going to be voted on next week. We believe we can get a majority of Members of Congress to act for clean water - and that's where you come in. We need enough people to contact their representatives so that they hear loud and clear that we want clean and safe drinking water and healthy places to swim and fish. Please take a moment to ask your Member of Congress to get sewage out of American water. Then, if you have friends who don't like sewage in their water either, forward this email to them and ask them to contact their Member of Congress too. To take action, click on this link or it into your web browser:
The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments: Pat C.....I thought it was a crime! like shouting 'fire' in a theater or threatening the rez.... Will follow up when my friend gets more info.....it wasn't my friend I suspect who was listening to htis, but someone else sent him the email and he passed it on to me. As for Michael Isikoff....how far the mighty fall. What a turd he's always been....I hope he gets his due out of this, perhaps his perspective will be changed. Both Rathergate and Newsweekgate look to be Rovian.... Posted by: judi gemini on May 19, 2005 08:02 PMlearn all about iraqi democracy http://www.markfiore.com/animation/translation.html Posted by: Raj on May 19, 2005 08:03 PMabove site should be http://www.markfiore.com/animation/translate.html Posted by: Raj on May 19, 2005 08:04 PMOh my gosh, Firoe has no peer!!! judi, it would be the FBI (gulp) that should be notified. Posted by: Pat C on May 19, 2005 08:27 PM
The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments: OFF TOPIC or perhaps not since Neptune is involved. I want to thank everyone who answered my Mother's Day cry for help about my problems with my 47-year-old son, an alcoholic who may - or may not - be drinking now and who doesn't have a job/can't find a job/won't look for a job. I'm now attending Al-Anon meetings twice a week, in therapy with an addiction counselor and will start attending meetings for co-dependents next week. None of this would have happened without the encouragement of the wonderful people at Astroworld. I am so very, very grateful. Thank you all and love and light to all. Posted by: Donna on May 19, 2005 08:43 PM
The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments: Donna, I'm so very proud of you!!! Posted by: Pat C on May 19, 2005 08:50 PMwv, see ... batting for the same team, different jerseys ... it's all a mirage. Code words are freedom loving people ... what freedom? Where? These guys are all giving "democracy" a really bad name as far as I'm concerned. George Orwell had it right in Animal Farm ... something like and one day the animals woke up and words had different meanings ... Anyway, I read it too many years ago and am going to buy both Animal Farm and 1984 and read them again. Isabel, wonderful article! ---- "There is no point living in the past," Clinton said. "Look at where we are now. Everyone, all freedom-loving people would be better off with a genuinely representative, effective, free government in Iraq whatever your feelings are about what went on before." Posted by: Marta on May 19, 2005 09:13 PMhttp://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/051905X.shtml Short Tales from Bizarro World "I met Saddam Hussein exactly the same number of times as Donald Rumsfeld met him. The difference is that Donald Rumsfeld met him to sell him guns, and to give him maps the better to target those guns." "I told the world that Iraq, contrary to your claims, did not have weapons of mass destruction," said Galloway. "I told the world, contrary to your claims, that Iraq had no connection to al-Qaeda. I told the world, contrary to your claims, that Iraq had no connection to the atrocity on 9/11 2001. I told the world, contrary to your claims, that the Iraqi people would resist a British and American invasion of their country and that the fall of Baghdad would not be the beginning of the end, but merely the end of the beginning. Senator, in everything I said about Iraq, I turned out to be right and you turned out to be wrong, and 100,000 people paid with their lives; 1600 of them American soldiers sent to their deaths on a pack of lies; 15,000 of them wounded, many of them disabled forever on a pack of lies." Coleman and Levin, and anyone else listening in, must have felt like they were receiving a tongue-lashing from an angry Sean Connery. The fact that Galloway's outraged testimony went out live over the airwaves on most of the 24-hour news channels was likewise an odd twist. The American people actually saw a well-spoken contrary opinion broadcast into their homes on Tuesday, a rare event, and then watched as the talking heads scrambled to spin this square peg back into its round hole. More... Posted by: Pat C on May 19, 2005 10:11 PMDonna, YEA!!!!!!!!!!! I'm so glad for you, boy, I'll bet you are already feeling SO relieved!! Feeling like you're not alone in this type of problem, like there's help and support for you, like there's light at the end of the tunnel. I really am very glad for you. thank you for letting us know. RE: Salon talks to the Govenor of Iowa... I have to admit I can't even finish the article. My deep and sincere apology to negatively carp -- I know I KNOW some of you are tired of this track -- but honestly, *I* do NOT for one split-second believe that the country as a whole is this supposed "values" based, blah blah blah... It's a stinkin' loud-mouthed minority, in my opinion. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. And my, look how greasy it's gotten around here. The "center" to which people refer is not the center at all! It's most definitely on the right! "Far Right, or Right Lite, sir? Which do you prefer?" "Right Lite, please. Same great taste, but less fascist." GOD, GODDESS, UNIVERSE, BIG BOOGER IN THE SKY, if you can hear me, PLEASE present a "leader" who understands that s/he is not the LEADER at all, but the ADMINISTRATOR, the EXECUTIVE, organizing our disparate parts and keeping everything on track to run smoothly. Should the Rez or a Pres pay attention to polls? YOU BET!! Exactly WHOM is working for WHO here???? (Populist, progressive dream? No law against dreaming. Yet. Is there?) Posted by: Lori on May 19, 2005 10:54 PMDisclaimer: I'm either really cynical or very intuitive; I have my opinion, of course, which it is, but I can't say for sure. RE: Short Tales from Bizarro World Pitt says in his article that "...Newsweek... published a report recently... [that] cited an anonymous source whose credibility and information turned out to be less than solid." Later he says: "The BBC reported in October of 2004 that Guantanamo prisoners alleged their Korans were thrown into toilets and they were ordered to abandon their faith." The Newsweek article that is supposedly "inaccurate" or "false" makes the same Koran-flushed-down-the-toilet claim, and that's why everyone's undies are in a bunch, no? So how can Pitt make the statement that the Newsweek source was less than credible? To me, these statements seem to contradict each other. Now here's the cynical/intuitive part: Day after the article appeared, the WH expressed being upset by the article, saying it's inaccurate; then the author apologizes; and then the NEXT day, Newsweek RECANTS the story!!...my take on that was: "Wow, things really are getting bad. The WH made Newsweek recant this story." i.e., FLAT OUT CENSORSHIP. Anyone else have that reaction? It still *feels* right to me. Any reason I should not believe this was the case? Posted by: Lori on May 19, 2005 11:16 PMHeeeelllllloooo AW! First, Isabelle — wonderful article, just finished reading it last night... I’m going back for seconds in a minute or two... I like to look at progressions... and your article has a lot to offer, as usual. Been out of town for a week, visiting bro-in-law in Virginia... (got close to your neck of the woods, WV!) Sure is beautiful in the Blue Ridge... we drove on to Philadelphia, primarily to see and hear Pete Seeger, but took in the sights in Old Town. I simply have to share with you all, the wonderful state I have been in, being out of a RED state! Kind and gentle folk everywhere, no “he whose name may not be spoken” bumper stickers — lots of thoughtful drivers... If you don’t live in a RED state, you cannot possibly know how freeing it can be to move amongst people who are not ‘waiting for Jesus’! And I moved through three states full of them: Maryland, Delaware and Pennsylvania. The Sing Out! Concert for Seeger was a surprise from my husband, who is NOT, I repeat NOT and was NOT politically active during the 60s or 70s... I am not quite sure what I did to deserve such a treat, but I am not worrying about it! You know of course it was wonderful being in an auditorium filled to capacity with LIBERALS... I could feel the love... did not want to leave. Anyway, you were all there with me in spirit... and I’m filling this comfy corner of cyberspace now with the good feelings and love from all those wonderful people there. Here’s a link if you want to check out some of the artists who were there with Pete, and hum a little tune or two. Namaste, Jo http://www.mcall.com/features/all-seegermay14,0,3389458.story?coll=all-features-hed Lori, The WH's concern is that anyone knows about this, not whether or not it occurred. Read Blumenthal's article. It's at salon.com. wv posted a direct link to it up at 8:38 above. Posted by: shylurker on May 19, 2005 11:32 PM((((Jo)))) Welcome back!! I wish you would have told me you were going to be there!! Just got to post this! Good gawd! http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/051905B.shtml Bush Proposes Corps to Aid New Democracies President Bush, seeking to put muscle behind a promise to support young democracies, said Wednesday the administration is creating a special corps of federal workers that will deploy quickly to help foreign governments in crisis. Citing the lengthy and difficult task of setting up the U.S.-run occupation government in Iraq after Saddam Hussein's ouster, Bush is proposing $100 million next year for a new conflict response fund and $24 million for a new Office of Reconstruction and Stabilization in the State Department. That office will coordinate U.S. government efforts to support emerging democracies, with the new Active Response Corps of foreign and civil service officers as a crucial tool, Bush said. "This new corps will be on call _ ready to get programs running on the ground in days and weeks instead of months and years," Bush said at a dinner hosted by the International Republican Institute, a federally funded group that promotes democracy worldwide. "If a crisis emerges and assistance is needed, the United States of America will be ready." Bush cited a series of what he referred to as revolutions during the past 18 months in ex-Soviet republics and across the Middle East: in Georgia, Ukraine, Iraq, Kyrgyzstan and Lebanon. "We are seeing the rise of a new generation whose hearts burn for freedom _ and they will have it," Bush said. He aimed to encourage nations in uncertain times that sometimes follow new, democratic elections. What must follow, Bush said, is the building of strong institutions, such as a vibrant press, independent judiciary, peaceful opposition and free economy, to support the new freedoms. America progressed to a mature democracy only after fits and starts over many decades, Bush said. "When people risk everything to vote, it can raise expectations that their lives will improve immediately, but history teaches us that the path to a free society is long and not always smooth," the president said. He promised U.S. assistance on a number of fronts. The administration has spent $4.6 billion over more than four years supporting democratic change and will increasingly focus future funding on programs to help new democracies after elections are over. Bush also promised that military forces will be rebalanced with an eye toward making them more effective in helping societies move from war and despotism to freedom and democracy, in part by adding military police and civil affairs specialists. More.... Posted by: Pat C on May 19, 2005 11:59 PMHey, Jo! Posted by: jm on May 20, 2005 12:01 AMJo, >>I am not quite sure what I did to deserve such a treat, but I am not worrying about it!<< Oh, of course! Virgo rising is it? Posted by: jm on May 20, 2005 12:04 AMAll around "Yay!" for Jo (her wonderful trip, her wonderful husband and now her long-awaited return). Pat C., just imagine the greetings Smirky's "new democracies" personnel are going to receive. Thank you all! Yes, JM, Virgo Rising! You all are rocking! I'm enjoying reading all the comments, and of course Isabelle's article. Posted by: Jo on May 20, 2005 12:17 AMFrom Pat C's last post: >>"We are seeing the rise of a new generation whose hearts burn for freedom _ and they will have it," Bush said.<< I think their hearts are burning from the greasy food they eat. It's more like this: "have" should be "haff" Posted by: jm on May 20, 2005 12:36 AMJo, Had to smile when I read that you had enjoyed your trip out of a "red" state! I live in one too (Ala) and I don't think people who live in "blue" states can really understand how awful it is to live in a "red" state and be surrounded by * loving people all the time! It's a daily grind to get up and face it daily and it truly wears you down .. so good for you to get out for awhile and see things from a different perspective. My husband had his retirement luncheon today - five of the Fundie co-workers showed up at the restaurant with their Bibles and flag lapel pins and during the lunch time conversation all of them let on how they "enjoy" life - maxed out credit cards, trips with the family, new cars .. no "worries" because "Jesus" is coming back soon. It was quite comical ... and quite sad to think that they really do believe this stuff. Meanwhile, we are making plans to get back to the "blue" ourselves! People that don't believe that these Fundie & right wing groups are indeed starting to take over things here should spend 6 months living here in the deep south and see what really goes on! Pretty scarey stuff and they are NOT going away anytime soon! Good luck, Jo - try and plan more trips away if only for your own peace of mind and soul. Posted by: Siobhan on May 20, 2005 12:50 AMIt is setback times for those cons. Paul Martins' good grief....bu*hit spending money on a 'corp' to help fledgling democracies around the world? I think we need the work here! Oh that's right, Clinton established Americacorp to help our own residents, and smirky gutted that... Lori.....it is Newsweekgate, a sequel to Rathergate. Rovian politics....flat out censorship, and it looks as if it was Isikoff, the writer who trashed Clinton, who got set up..... Jo....I am always so grateful to be living in blue SF bay area.....even if there are a few relatives who are pretty red. They are pretty nice, and not waiting for Jaysus. It would be so wonderful if you could spend more time in a blue state....I never would have guessed you even came from a red state! Boy are the red states going to be surprised when Jaysus sits this one out.... Posted by: judi gemini on May 20, 2005 01:25 AMThanks Siobhan, I'm not much of a traveler these days, but you're right! Need to get out every once in a while for the sake of my soul --- and sanity! And you too. Your poor hubby, having to deal with that... Thank goodness he is retiring, right? Blue state here you come? Good for you! Posted by: Jo on May 20, 2005 01:27 AMDonna...great news! It will help YOU immeasureably, and perhaps down the road your son will cope also. I was once told that 48 was the most dangerous year in a person's life (a saturn square, it is).....it may be hugely impactful for him, but I will not say dangerous, but certainly a huge shift in consciousness and 'waking up'....as all of us must do. Posted by: judi gemini on May 20, 2005 01:31 AMI tend to think of those global intervention people as storm troopers in suits. It impresses me the same way I was impressed with the introduction of no child left behind. Of course there is also the left behind books. This is one scary bunch. Oy. The good thing is, they are no longer stealth. Posted by: Pat C on May 20, 2005 01:34 AMJo....and about PA being a blue state....look at THIS... Sen. Rick Santorum (R-PA) compared Democrats' attempts to keep the filibuster to Hitler's moves in 1942 in a floor speech in the Senate Thursday afternoon, RAW STORY has learned. The following is a transcript of the particular section of the senator's floor speech, from the closed-captioned text taken by the Senate. AND WE SHOULDN'T GO MUCKING AROUND IN THIS INSTITUTION AND CHANGING THE WAY WE'VE DONE THINGS, Hi all. I'm just stopping by briefly to wish you all well and to invite you to visit my new pages: http://www.geocities.com/abakan1/enshoumusings.html Still sort of sparcely furnished, but operational. OG Posted by: old granny on May 20, 2005 01:47 AMrobert pozen, architect of Bush's Soc Sec plan, has split with smirky....has said today to drop his insistence on using a portion of workers' taxes to pay for individual investment accounts. And Sen.repub.Bill Thomas, who has taken over the whole push (and he's always successful at everythin, he pushed thru the damn Medicare revise) is differning with smirky also.... from the NY Times:
Oh, I do love Billmon... and if you’re into manifesting your own reality, here’s a link you’ll like. “Defendants in the dock at the Ango-American War Crimes Trial of 2010, held at The Hague under the jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court. Another defendant (Ari Fleischer, front row, extreme right) received only a light sentence, as the court determined that lying to the American people was too common a crime to merit more severe punishment.” More Posted by billmon at 06:15 PM http://billmon.org/archives/trial.html Posted by: Jo on May 20, 2005 01:54 AMOK....I found out about the 'kill Michael Moore' story I posted above.....here it is, and of course it is a Clear Channel host who said it...full story...http://mediamatters.org/items/200505180008 haven't read it yet... Posted by: judi gemini on May 20, 2005 01:59 AMOld Granny, what a treasure you have put together. Is the Castanada peice from the Fire From Within? If not, you would enjoy chapter 2 of that book. Posted by: Pat C on May 20, 2005 02:03 AMIt seems to me Judi, that is a crime. Posted by: Pat C on May 20, 2005 02:05 AMOld Granny. Pardon me, I just noticed that the title is not Fire From Within. If you have that book, I think you would really enjoy chapter 2. It certainly left an impression on me. Posted by: Pat C on May 20, 2005 02:09 AMOld Granny....I happen to be re-reading Journey to Ixtlan by Castenada....and have found I needed to underline even more, as it is all so .....incredible, I guess...amazing. pg 41...Death is an adviser He replied that the issue of our death was never pressed far enough. And I argued that it would be meaningless for me to dwell upon my death, since such a though would only bring discomfort and fear. Pat....all of us angry folk can email this imbecile (Glen Beck) Premiere Radio Networks, Inc. Main: (818)377-5300 WV, Thanks for posting the link on the upcoming full moon [2:17 am] I cut and pasted it to my calendar --- really excellent article. Old Granny, your webpage is wonderful! So glad you let us know about it, and I like sparse! Good piece on musical trines... bet JM would enjoy reading that one. Hope you are moving gently through the days and healing... has your sensitivity to light diminished any? Light to you. Posted by: Jo on May 20, 2005 03:05 AMIt was a pleasure to read your "musings" old granny. Hope you are feeling better. Donna, I have friends who have gotten so much out of Al-anon and I sure hope you do too. It's tragic when a child becomes self-destructive. It's hard and painful for all parents and Al-Anon has such wonderful support. Interesting days ahead. Saturn at 23 Cancer is sextiling the Jupiter/Saturn grand conjunction in Taurus (the 2000 placement of this conjunction) both are now inconj. by Pluto, setting up a powerful yod. We will see in a few days if it's "truth to power" or "power to truth" that wins out. The US Natal Mercury at 24 Cancer holds the key to the power of information. On the 23rd Saturn and Pluto are exactly (to the minute) inconjunct and less than 30 min. away from the US Mercury. This yod is another crossroad in America's history, and possibly slams the hammer down on the last 229 years. If the filibuster isn't saved, the minority party or the two party system is gone for the time being and 2006 will not only NOT bring fair elections, there won't be a court to which we can appeal. I am reminded of the Book of Ecclesiastices and the famous "a time to sow and a time to reap, a time for war a time for peace." I read an article (who knows if this is true) where this administration wants to sell Hawaii to the Japanese and I think "will they just sell us off state by state to other countries?" I wonder. We have all been raised to believe we have certain freedoms and we don't, in 2000 when Neptune went over the US South Node was our first signal that things would change and we needed to take stock of ourselves and our past. The last time it traversed 6/7 degrees Aquarius was in 1837, another time that the country needed to take stock, the taking stock led to the Civil War. There will be much in the days, months and years ahead where we will be saying "oh my god, did you see what they've done today," the bigger question is what will we do? Forces are being developed right now, "The Media Forum," groups coming together to try and deal with the environmental, health and educational situations today. Positive things are rumbling and hopefully we will be able to turn toward the positive things and add our voices. My grandmother used to say "and this too will pass." And pass it will, and we are getting closer to the time when we must begin to look toward a rebuilding. A bit of good news
Here's something you won't hear on Fox News -- ratings for the cable news channel have been plummeting since before the November election. According to TV Newser, the number of people watching Fox during prime time in the 25 to 54 age bracket dropped in April for the sixth straight month. CONTINUED ~ Hi ALL! Shylurker: "Lori, The WH's concern is that anyone knows about this, not whether or not it occurred. Read Blumenthal's article. It's at salon.com. wv posted a direct link to it up at 8:38 above." Lori: Thanks. I did check out the article. I also understood that the WH's issue is that people know about it. The quotes I read by people such as Kindasleazy in my local newspaper the day after the newsweek article made that very clear. I believe she even said something to the effect that it was irresponsible that Newsweek reported the incident. Nothing indicating the report might be WRONG. So Shylurker, I understand what you're saying. In Blumenthal's article, he points out "Newsweek's single source had suddenly decided he was not a profile in courage and informed the reporter that he was no longer certain of his previous assertion." Sounds to me like someone got to the guy and convinced him to change his story. You can tell my opinion about it hasn't changed. My point is that ON TOP of everything you can think about that is horrible that this Rez and his posse do (it will take days to think of it all!), ON TOP of that, they are now BLATANTLY CENSORING THE PRESS. Yes, self-censorship is more than bad enough. We've moved beyond that. YIKES. Posted by: Lori on May 20, 2005 05:51 AMTrudy, thank you so much for posting about the "squeaker" in Canada. I was thrilled to read about it but am so obsessed with the WH goings-on that I failed to mention it here. I apologize. May the Maple Leaf long wave over the land of the free to the north of us! Congratulations! Posted by: shylurker on May 20, 2005 05:58 AMHEY JO! I was wondering where you'd got to... welcome back to AW! My "purple" state is bad enough. I feel for those of you in red states. Siobhan, boy, are those 5 fundies going to be upset when it's time to file bankruptcy and JC ain't nowheres to be seen! Crazy people. They've got us all WISHIN' there'd be the rapture, so they'd all get the hell out!!!!! Posted by: Lori on May 20, 2005 06:02 AMSally: We will see in a few days if it's "truth to power" or "power to truth" that wins out... Starrynight/SN: A bit of good news. FOX NEWS IN RATING FREE-FALL this forum is ORGANIC...it answers it's own questions. the truth to power is spoken by the people. the actual number of fox viewers in the vital demographic mentioned is about 480,000.....that's right 480,000 or the combined populations within the city limits of Toledo and Dayton, Ohio (how appropriate). the TRUTH is all around us. the mouth-piece of the fascist insurgents is in "free fall," but it's going to be costly for Faux. bouy bouy Rupert! enjoy, you have 1 hour left in EDT, then it's time for some herb tea and the nightly astral projection... Posted by: mike on May 20, 2005 06:02 AMWhen I was first embarking on my own pathway and wanted my life to improve--of course the thing that I wanted the most was abundance. I am assuming that it must be the full moon coming....or something else unknown and un-named, but something has changed in my perceptual field....things (I mean...TREES even and especially) look different....I noticed today that the foliage had 'massed' into a presence as I was driving in a wooded area. Well, maybe as an artist working for 'Americheese' (which is the name another storyboard artist gave his web page) for so long I stopped seeing and now I am seeing...it is not unlike the feeling of coming down from psychodeliciousness. I think Mike's gonna be out there astral projecting, so Mike, if you see don Juan on your journey, tell him thanx for the new visuals......namaste... Posted by: judi gemini on May 20, 2005 06:23 AMThank you Skylurker, for the good wishes! Posted by: Trudy on May 20, 2005 06:27 AM
Mike, Rupert Murdoch has some ugly Saturn transits, I've been waiting for him to fall or ill health to befall him. Rupert has already lost something of great value to him (don't know what it is, but it's gone) Trudy, in 2000 the Jupiter/Saturn conjunction was in Taurus (an earth sign) this affects the world for the next 20 years. We are witnessing a fight between all things of the earth and things progressive or moving toward a new way of being. Uranus squared that conjunction and ultimately the progressive will win but in the meantime we will see the worst of what "things of the earth" can bring and we will see the worst of ourselves (collective.) Posted by: Sally on May 20, 2005 06:55 AMSally, re Rupert - I seem to remember some time back that his son had actually taken over the empire's active management. I wonder how that factors in. I'll see if I can find more info. Posted by: Kiwijeanie on May 20, 2005 08:45 AMMore info on Murdoch: http://www.answers.com/topic/rupert-murdoch http://www.biography.ms/James_Murdoch_(born_1972).html
Another post - you all must be sleeping on the other side of the world! LOL Seems sonny James dropped out of Harvard and then went on to start Rawkus Records, which failed. Old Granny, I had a wonderful visit at your sight. I like the design and simplicity. "To be angry at people means that one considers their acts to be important." And then he goes on to say we shouldn't feel that way. Suggesting to me, an Aries rising, not to be angry is like telling a Moon in Pisces not to cry. But I immediately wanted to not do it when I read this. Diminishing the importance sounds wonderful. I'd rather get angry at other things besides people.. viruses maybe, or injustice. I want to read the article on trines, as Jo suggested, but it doesn't fit into my screen and it drives me nuts. Can anyone tell me how to reduce the text, if possible? I like the picture on top of the homepage, too.
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/gate/archive/2005/05/20/notes052005.DTL&type=printable Posted by: wv on May 20, 2005 02:54 PMHere is Arianna's new site... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/?tr=y&auid=872748 Posted by: wv on May 20, 2005 03:45 PMLori, a quick comment on the Koran flushing — Mike Rivero reports that the Red Cross first gave reports of this in 2002 and 2003 — I recall reading those statements at the time. So, you don’t have to look to Newsweek for validation of this or to Blumenthal (although he is good) — we can look to the reports from the RC which were ignored by * administration until the news of Abu Ghraib broke... and then the reports were acknowledged as being in existence but no one spoke to the complaints within them. [one thing you can say about these fascists: they are consistent — they didn’t read the PDB for August 6 2001 and they didn’t read the report prepared ... blah, blah — if the Neocons don’t author the paper, they don’t read it! (They create their own ‘reality’ and then close off the circuitry.) ] Posted by: Jo on May 20, 2005 03:56 PMIn Isabelle’s wonderful article above she made the following statement: “In summery, it appears on a metaphysical level that we as a country are drifting into a ‘don’t tell me I don’t want to know‘, along with a ‘what’s on American Idol tonight’ kind of mentality, a please let me escape this so I can feel good mentality. It is the exact mentality that will allow someone, or a group of someones, who are not content to drift down the river and watch the clouds go by while looking at lotus blossoms, take us and I do mean us as in the U.S. someplace we don’t want to go.” Unfortunately, hers is one of the most profound statements I have read for some time. It is right on the money, imho. It is not only the religious right who present a problem... although they are a substantial part of the problem. Several months ago I stumbled across Orcinus’ website. The author has completed a six-part series of fascism in this country. I may have cited him when I listed several threads back the number of sources suggesting we are well on our way (if we have not arrived) to a fascist state (of mind as well as physicality). Recently he has written an excellent piece using Orwell’s writings as a focus. This is a small excerpt from the piece: “But in the process we often overlook the role played by the other half of the dynamic: the members of the public who not only participate in it, but ardently embrace it. These followers are totalists, and recent events make clear that American society is increasingly awash in them.” I highly recommend you click on the link and read his comments. They tie in with the escapism Isabelle alludes to in the article above and expand on the “cognitive dissonance” Nancy wrote so eloquently about last year. His words, added to Isabelle’s comments in her article on the progressed USA chart (our metaphysical or psychological state) have been a huge help to me in understanding the people I am close to — my husband, for one. He has a lot of Pisces in his chart and is absolutely unwilling to ‘hear’ anything about what is going on in our country... a highly intelligent, educated person who sees the emperor fully clothed— “we’ll get ‘em next time” he says (re the 2004 election). His brother whom we recently visited, protested the Viet Nam war and later went to Ireland for a short time to lend support to the NRA... extremely intelligent man who now in his senior years does not want to hear anything ‘negative’ about life and has buried himself in Irish/folk music (Piscean). From my POV, these two folks are content to watch the clouds roll by, oblivious to the fascists and their supporters, the 'totalists' --- TOTALISTS: that’s a word to chew and ponder. http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2005/05/undertow-of-totalism.html http://www.thenation.com/blogs/edcut?bid=7&pid=2621 Sweet Victory: CPC Gets in Gear Posted by: Pat C on May 20, 2005 05:11 PMAn Important Victory: Blackwell Loses in Court You may remember that attorney Cliff Arnebeck, a board member of Common Cause Ohio, was threatened with sanctions for his activism concerning the recount effort and other suits related to the November 2nd, 2004, election in Ohio. We believe that such an action (sanctioning activists for questioning the outcome of an election) would have a chilling effect on others' efforts to raise reasonable doubts about election administration and election validity -- and indeed we believe that was the intent behind the motions for sanctions, which were entered by Attorney General Petro at the official request of Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell. Therefore, we're glad to know that Blackwell's effort failed. In an email today, Cliff sent us the good news that, "Decisions [were] issued today denying the motions for sanctions in the elections contests we filed." Sometimes the good guys win, even in Ohio! Here's the AP article (none / 0) Published: May 19, 2005 Filed at 11:41 a.m. ET COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) -- Ending one of the last fights from the contentious 2004 presidential campaign, the Ohio Supreme Court on Thursday declined to punish four attorneys who had challenged the results in court. Chief Justice Thomas Moyer ruled against Ohio Attorney General Jim Petro's attempt to have the lawyers sanctioned for filing ''a meritless claim'' against the vote that gave President Bush a win in Ohio and, as a result, enough electoral votes to win a second term in the White House. In legal documents filed with the state Supreme Court, the lawyers had said the challenge they filed on behalf of 37 voters included enough evidence of voting irregularities to back up their allegations of widespread fraud. They later withdrew the claim. Petro, a Republican, asked for sanctions against lawyers Cliff Arnebeck, Robert Fitrakis, Susan Truitt and Peter Peckarsky. If the court had sanctioned the lawyers, they could have been forced to repay attorney's fees and court costs. Moyer, acting under the court's power to assign election-related complaints to a single justice, said that while the court has the authority to sanction attorneys, the speed with which elections must be challenged allows the court some leeway. ''The General Assembly could have expressly authorized courts to sanction those who pursue frivolous election contests. It has not,'' Moyer, a Republican, wrote in his decision. President Bush beat Democratic Sen. John Kerry by about 118,000 votes in Ohio, which turned out to be the pivotal state in the Nov. 2 election. The lawyers' election challenge was withdrawn in early January, with those contesting the results saying it was clear their argument would be dismissed as moot with Bush set to be inaugurated. Barbara Burt, Common Cause Election Reform Team Leader by Barb Burt on Thu May 19, 2005 at 04:35:49 PM EST http://www.commonblog.com/story/2005/5/19/132237/949 Posted by: Pat C on May 20, 2005 05:13 PMJesus wept! U.S. Gives Anchorage $1.5M for Bus Stop Tom Wilson is faced with a problem many city administrators would envy: How to spend $1.5 million on a bus stop. Wilson, Anchorage's director of public transportation, has all that money for a new and improved bus stop outside the Anchorage Museum of History and Art thanks to Republican Sen. Ted Stevens - fondly referred to by Alaskans as "Uncle Ted" for his prodigious ability to secure federal dollars for his home state. Posted by: wv on May 20, 2005 05:34 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/theblog/archive/catherine-crier/be-afraid-be-very-afraid_1285.html Posted by: wv on May 20, 2005 05:39 PMThanks for your post(s), Jo. and everyone else. I think the moon kept me awake all night. Very tired...zzzzzzzzzzzzz Posted by: Lori on May 20, 2005 05:50 PM
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-05-19-parties-outreach_x.htm Posted by: wv on May 20, 2005 05:51 PMHello from an Aries rising, Pisces moon. (@#!%$% --sniff). (Also Gem sun, mars, & merc.; Cancer venus and uranus, saturn virgo . . .) I keep wanting to be involved in the AW conversation somehow but usually just have time to read here--and I'm getting a lot from it--the great posts and links! Some of you (Jo--and others?) are southerners. I used to be one. Left after college in 1971, and whenever i go back to see my folks i remember why i couldn't live there now. Small town Georgia, and the fundies rule. I couldn't stand being "witnessed" to constantly. My mother, who is quite progressive thanks to her extensive independent reading, tries to get me to tone down my anti-southern, anti-Smirky attitude, but i am not there yet, and may never be. So i live in a nice blue area (MD suburbs of DC) (y'all would love to read the bumper stickers in the public high school parking lot), and have a nice blue husband. I am just as insulated in my point of view as my Eagle Forum mother-in-law in her beloved Oklahoma. The major intrusion in recent years for me personally was when the * re-election campaign invaded the office building where I work. (I tried mind control when in the elevator with all the 20-something campaign workers, but no soap.) Posted by: Marcia (Mars-ha?) on May 20, 2005 06:01 PMThis Sunday, Governor Dean will sit for a full hour with Tim Russert on NBC's Meet the Press. He'll discuss his first 100 days in office and his unprecedented efforts to build the party from the ground up, along with major issues like the Republican abuse of power in the Senate. You can get your local listings here: http://www.democrats.org/sundayshow Posted by: Pat C on May 20, 2005 06:09 PMOne of the wonderful AWrs recommended Destiny of Souls. I ordered it and I'm so happy to say it has arrived. I also got Journey of Souls and Life Between Lives. Just the feel of these books is wonderful. Thank you so much for the recommendation! Posted by: Pat C on May 20, 2005 06:18 PM
The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments: Lovely article, Isabelle. Nice and clear and giving the real feel of Pisces. I have been feeling a lot of this energy myself, and I think it is also a product of Uranus in Pisces, Uranus being the ruler of the US Aquarian Moon (and my numerous Aquarian planets). So the US is getting this Pisces/12 house energy from everything you describe and the Uranus transit which will be in Pisces until 2011 Posted by: Nancy on May 20, 2005 06:41 PMWell, I'll swan, Marcia Mars, another Southerner! Thanks so much for letting us know you're there. And good on you for your mind control exercises in that elevator. You probably had more impact that you know. Posted by: shylurker on May 20, 2005 07:09 PMWelcome Marcia! Please, jump right in, anytime. How in the world have you managed to keep that Gemini group out of here so far? As for living here in a Red state, my Cancer stellium insists on it --- lots of extended family, and elderly folks who have been and are leaving soon... besides, if I can pin a label on myself (LOL!) it would be 'cage rattler' --- or as Shylurker has named me, 'outside agitator'... where else would I reside if not in the South? Just doing my job. [Socrates defined himself to others as the town gadfly.] Marcia, I must say you missed a wonderful opportunity to 'rattle that elevator' --- just think - 20 folks of a different mindset, who for obvious reasons had to be polite to you. Next time (if you should ever find yourself in a similar situation) hold that Piscean nose and rattle on... Your Gemini group will be so honored! Namaste Aravosis moves things quickly on his blog, but do try and go to the Ohio Coin article (posted at 2:06). Things are so depressing nowadays that it's wonderful when the press actually gets on an issue and stays on it like they used to do. Plus, this is Ohio and Cap'n Sally said some time ago that the stench from Ohio would continue to emanate way beyond the 2004 Restolection. Anyway, it is something you can enjoy. You know, a "mood elevator" (apologies for that one, Marcia Mars and Jo). Posted by: shylurker on May 20, 2005 07:21 PMHeck Shy, Why apologize? That's the best laugh I've had all day!!! Posted by: Jo on May 20, 2005 07:28 PMThe weekly thread on Mark Kruger's www.In2Light.com talks about these illusions. We are in the eliminating sludge period. To have strong intentions for the future rather than 'dreams come true'. Those who are having their dreams come true right now (Fundies, Neos and Yuppies with all the junk they collect) are living in the dream and will Karmically pay in the next few years. Those in the sludge are really eliminating the Dream and becoming invovled in their own conciousness rather than in their own minds/dream/ illussions/ maya. BTW, I not only want the Fundies to get off Earth, I also want a house and some left over luxury items sold to me second hand.
Actually, I have posted on here once/twice (about peak oil, after another article). One thing good I can think of about living in a red state. It's a pretty sure bet that your congressional representatives and letter-to-the-editor columns need to hear from you. There doesn't seem to be a reason for me to write to my hometown paper (Washpost--they get plenty of good letters from very knowledgeable people), and i can usually trust my Rep. and Senators to vote well without hearing from me. Don't know that this counteracts the perpetual apoplexy I would feel putting up with everythign else down South, though. Still, I had a great childhood there, in the 50s. Posted by: Marcia M on May 20, 2005 08:14 PM There appears to be another abuse scandal breaking, this one in Afghanistan, has anyone seen the article in New York Times quoted by Guardian in article below? http://www.guardian.co.uk/afghanistan/story/0,1284,1488919,00.html Posted by: Jo on May 20, 2005 09:16 PMHere's the link to NYTimes story today (reminds me of the story in bible of Jesus asking for water] Posted by: Jo on May 20, 2005 09:23 PMRed Cross Says It Told U.S. in 2002 About Alleged Mishandling of Koran By Carol D. Leonnig The International Committee of the Red Cross said yesterday that it repeatedly expressed concern to the U.S. government in 2002 and early 2003 about a series of credible detainee allegations that military guards at the Guantanamo Bay prison in Cuba had mishandled and shown disrespect to the Koran. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/19/AR2005051901879.html Posted by: Jo on May 20, 2005 09:43 PMBhakti....the fundies expect to go in the Rapture....hopefully, to another planet where they can drive each other nuts together.... Also, did anyone catch this: By Marsha Walton R(CNN) -- Dramatic new data from the December 26, 2004, Sumatran-Andaman earthquake that generated deadly tsunamis show the event created the longest fault rupture and the longest duration of faulting ever observed, according to three reports by an international group of seismologists published Thursday in the journal "Science." Posted by: judi gemini on May 20, 2005 09:51 PMWell, some folks think it was an undersea bomb. Posted by: Jo on May 20, 2005 10:04 PMJonathan and Laurie, love both your posts ... so post away! I'm not sure who flamed you Jonathan ... and out of curiousity I tried to look back to see what could have caused you such consternation and upset you, but didn't see anything (maybe I missed something - darn, don't you hate that!). But, in the end it's a board and on-going discussions and opinions both for and against topics abound. So don't take it personally. As long as everyone is kind about their rebuttals insofar as they are addressing you personally (assuming posters have done so). Why do you care? We don't all have to agree all the time. And PS ... for the record I love Bill Clinton, voted for him twice. Doesn't mean that I am unable to question his motives AT THIS TIME. It's time to question everything and everyone. Hope everyone has a lovely weekend! On another note, the bulbs I planted per suggestions on this board have all come up WONDERFULLY! Yaaaayyyyy!
The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments: Donna, bravo for you! Baby steps ... :) Posted by: Marta on May 20, 2005 11:03 PM Off We Go, Into the Christian Yonder....more o The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments:
http://www.iconoclast-texas.com/News/19news05.htm Posted by: wv on May 20, 2005 11:49 PM
http://www.iconoclast-texas.com/News/19news04.htm Posted by: wv on May 20, 2005 11:57 PMOh, oh! Pat C your post about Bush proposing to create a "new corps to aid democracies". Uh, oh. The gall of it!!!!! Our tax dollars at work again! Last year I was watching C-span. There was a fascinating (fascinating ... as in how you would watch a cobra coiling up in front of your face) presentation by a pentagon consultant who described how the pentagon is moving to create this leaner model of an army that they've been talking about. It spoke of a model of an army which is broken into two basic parts. The first part is a "stryker force" composed of young, unmarried, angry men who would be the front engine, come in quick, subdue the natives and then get out leaving group 2) to man the occupation, set up laws, create propaganda (he didn't call it that of course ... something like media/information management) and clean everything up and make sure systems were set in place to "manage" the country. Sounds like they're gearing up for part 2. For one thing, they need every soldier they can get their hands on to fight for our grande new Empire, that means they need to create the "administrators". If I think about it, they seem to be perhaps following the Roman model which did the same thing. They had their armies who went and conquered, then they would send in their administrators to govern. Huummmm. Iraq is just the first experiment (and they're failing miserably at it). Posted by: Marta on May 20, 2005 11:57 PMFurther to my previous post, Star Wars also makes sense. What better way to control your empire than from "high up in the sky"? Of course they need star wars. Posted by: Marta on May 20, 2005 11:58 PMBhakti, so when they're all raptured up, you can have their stuff for FREE! Why pay discount prices? This site is amazing. Look at the pot purry of posts! WOW. There's lots of serious news and info, there's personal stories, there's gardening, there's bed check every night at Pumpkin Time EDT...all kinds of things! Yea for your bulbs, Marta! Speaking of gardening, we'll just see how well this astro stuff works. I am such a lazy, slap-dash gardener. After reading tips on planting with the moon, I bought the moon sign book and I'm reading it and learning, and will probably need a few years to get it down well. Today I planted 4 tomato plants, 1 pepper, 1 squash. When I plant herbs, I dig a hole, dump in some "sheep & peat," pop it in and water. Then hope for the best and water as needed. That's how I did my veggies! Afterwards, I thought, gee, I really should have cultivated the soil one of the days I was (im)patiently waiting for the right time to plant. But moon's in 2nd phase (good for annuals like viney veggies) and in Libra ("semi-fruitful, moist & airy, used for planting many crops, & producing good pulp growth and roots. Very good for flowers and vines.") So we'll see. So far, one of the two golden cherry tomato plants is in severe shock. It's on its own now. The only duplicated plant I put in, so that's good. Posted by: Lori on May 21, 2005 12:09 AM
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,4894851-102279,00.html Posted by: wv on May 21, 2005 12:36 AMLori, thank you - I'm now awaiting the second stage, "flowers!" so we'll see how it goes. Good for you and your garden - enjoy! You're going to love the "fruit of your endeavours". PS the plant that's in shock, give it a little tender care, water all of the new plants carefully for the first week or so and then at any sign of distress water more (unless the leaves are turning light yellow - too much water). (kinda like newborn babies who feed "on demand" or whenever they hungry). Plants love to be gently touched and it helps if you let them know how much you appreciate them while you're tending them even if you're just thinking how beautiful they are as they grow. Enjoy! Posted by: Marta on May 21, 2005 12:42 AM
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/051105K.shtml Posted by: wv on May 21, 2005 12:45 AM http://www.xs4all.nl/~stgvisie/ud_main.html Posted by: wv on May 21, 2005 12:48 AMAmen, WV, amen... what a legacy we are leaving our children! I am reminded of the legend of Atlantis... we are bringing about our own destruction. Posted by: Jo on May 21, 2005 12:56 AM
http://arts.bev.net/roperldavid/politics/WeaponsRadioactive.htm Posted by: wv on May 21, 2005 12:59 AMHere's a joke for everyone to tell this weekend. A woman in San Francisco enters a charming antique shop The more I read, the angrier I get - where are http://www.refusingtokill.net/USGulfWar2/weaponsofself.htm Posted by: wv on May 21, 2005 01:16 AMMarta...recomend B-12 and Rescue Remedy for newly replanted plants... Posted by: judi gemini on May 21, 2005 01:21 AMThings are rocking here--The sun must be in Gemini. Haven't read all the posts yet.
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/printer_052005M.shtml ...and Michael Jackson is still on trial. Posted by: wv on May 21, 2005 01:50 AMIsabelle, As you know, natal Neptune is high (9th) in the US chart. http://www.truthout.org/issues_05/052005HB.shtml Chile's Mapuche Indians Reinvent Cosmetology Monday 16 May 2005 The Mapuches, an indigenous community in Chile's south, are proposing to revolutionize the cosmetics market at the end of May by launching a line of beauty products that will be produced according to ancestral traditions. Drab skin color, premature wrinkles and inelegant crow's feet are finished, promises biochemist Rodrigo Olivares in Santiago. Mr. Olivares is not Mapuche. He's a huinca (a White guy), but he works in close collaboration with the Mapuche shamans, the machis, mediators between the Earth and the Cosmos. They use natural products only: plants, fruits, mushrooms, tree bark.... One machis' secret, Mr. Olivares reveals, is snail slime, "the regenerative virtues of which have been proven over thousands of years." The cosmetics will be marketed in the four Mapuche pharmacies that exist in Chile, including two that opened in 2004 in Santiago. They are the capital's latest attraction. Located in central Santiago, they are packed at lunch time and at the end of the work day. "Ninety percent of our clients are huincas," explains a smiling saleslady dressed in the brightly-colored Mapuche costume, decorated with jewels and silver. No less natural medicines are also produced according to the machis' instructions. The star is Palwen, which fights impotence and frigidity in a country that consumes millions of Viagra pills every year. "The reason for our success is an unbeatable price-quality ratio," remarks Sergio Gonzalez, the manager of the Mapuche herbalist's shop. The medicines, which are distributed by the drop, sell for only 4 Euros. Officially recognized by the Health Ministry - as are the beauty products - they are sold without a prescription. There are close to a million Mapuches in Chile, out of a total population of 15 million people. The great majority live poorly from agriculture in Chile's south, but also in Argentine Patagonia. On both sides of the Andes, the Mapuches complain of the exclusion of their culture. They regularly demonstrate to demand their ancestral lands, which are frequently usurped by foreign companies, the flora and fauna of which the Mapuches accuse those companies of misappropriating. Posted by: Pat C on May 21, 2005 02:55 AM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,5198906-103677,00.html Posted by: wv on May 21, 2005 03:11 AM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,5198910-103677,00.html Posted by: wv on May 21, 2005 03:18 AMPlease go vote on this poll (Saxby Chambliss - Puke, GA): http://www.chambliss.senate.gov/default.cfm?CFID=14418863&CFTOKEN=77599859 Posted by: shylurker on May 21, 2005 03:26 AMLast night a Federal Judge ordered that the govt. MUST immediately release all photos it has re abuse in Abu Gharib prison. Supposedly these are the photos which Congresspeople already saw in a closed viewing. Some of them after the viewing said things like "the acts shown made me sick to my stomach" and Sen. John Warner said at the time that these photos should NEVER be allowed to be seen by members of the American public(!) They are said to show rape, VERY severe beatings, rape of young boys by Iraqi guards while being cheered on by U.S. soldiers, etc. etc. This will do even more great things for our image and standing in the world (thanks W., Rummy, Cheney, Gonzalez, Gen. Miller, et al., see you guys in the Hague!) ESPECIALLY among Muslims, and I am sure Scott McClellan will blame whatever publication brave enough to publish them as anti- military and (of course) anti-American. As a non-astrologer, but a quite intuitive (typical Leo modesty!) hard core political junkie, I am sure about what people on this board have been predicting about the next weeks and months brecoming VERY interesting. Posted by: Grizzly on May 28, 2005 09:50 AMhttp://www.free-beastility-cartoons.full-bestiality.net @ http://www.free-beastility-chat.full-bestiality.net @ http://www.free-beastility-clips.full-bestiality.net @ http://www.free-beastility-com.full-bestiality.net @ http://www.free-beastility-galleries.full-bestiality.net @ http://www.free-beastility-gallery.full-bestiality.net @ http://www.free-beastility-images.full-bestiality.net @ http://www.free-beastility-letters.full-bestiality.net @ http://www.free-beastility-links.full-bestiality.net @ http://www.free-beastility-movie.full-bestiality.net @ http://www.free-beastility-movies.full-bestiality.net @ http://www.free-beastility-mp.full-bestiality.net @ http://www.free-beastility-mpeg.full-bestiality.net @ http://www.free-beastility-mpeg-files.full-bestiality.net @ http://www.free-beastility-mpegs.full-bestiality.net @ http://www.free-beastility-passwords.full-bestiality.net @ http://www.free-beastility-photos.full-bestiality.net @ http://www.free-beastility-pic.full-bestiality.net @ http://www.free-beastility-picks.full-bestiality.net @ http://www.free-beastility-pics.full-bestiality.net @ http://www.free-beastility-pics-and-stories.full-bestiality.net @ http://www.free-beastility-pics-of-horse-fucking.full-bestiality.net @ http://www.free-beastility-pictures.full-bestiality.net @ http://www.free-beastility-pixs.full-bestiality.net @ http://www.free-beastility-porn.full-bestiality.net @ http://www.free-beastility-porn-free.full-bestiality.net @ http://www.free-beastility-qanimal-sex.full-bestiality.net @ http://www.free-beastility-sex.full-bestiality.net @ http://www.free-beastility-sex-clips.full-bestiality.net @ http://www.free-beastility-sex-pics.full-bestiality.net @ http://www.free-beastility-sex-stories.full-bestiality.net @ http://www.free-beastility-sites.full-bestiality.net @ http://www.free-beastility-stories.full-bestiality.net @ http://www.free-beastility-story.full-bestiality.net @ http://www.free-beastility-tgp.full-bestiality.net @ http://www.free-beastility-thumbnail-galleries.full-bestiality.net @ http://www.free-beastility-thumbnails.full-bestiality.net @ http://www.free-beastility-thumbs.full-bestiality.net @ http://www.free-beastility-video.full-bestiality.net @ http://www.free-beastility-video-clip.full-bestiality.net @ http://www.free-beastility-video-clips.full-bestiality.net @ http://www.free-beastility-videos.full-bestiality.net @ http://www.free-beastility-vidios.full-bestiality.net @ http://www.free-beastility-web-sites.full-bestiality.net @ http://www.free-beastility-xxx-pictures.full-bestiality.net @ http://www.free-beastilty.full-bestiality.net @ http://www.free-beastilty-archive.full-bestiality.net @ http://www.free-beastilty-avis-mpegs.full-bestiality.net @ http://www.free-beastilty-cartoons.full-bestiality.net @ http://www.free-beastilty-chat.full-bestiality.net Posted by: ruben on August 25, 2005 02:29 PMhttp://www.mounes.com http://www.rena.gr I agree with you .
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