Interestingly, Sally, I have a very close friend whose Sun is in direct Opposition to this Eclipse and then, on Oct 3 with the next Eclipse, her Moon will be in direct Opposition to that. Falling in her 1st and 7th Houses, one could accurately assume she's wrestling with HUGE issues about mainting her independence and her "this is ME"ness while still learning about being a part of a "couple" and how that changes everything. Also, her Moon (in Aries in the 1st Hse) is conjunct her Ascendant, so it'll be interesting to see how the Oct 3 Eclipse (at 10 Libra) affects that.

Also, I just learned that the Eclipse Saros Series we're experiencing is the same one that happened two days before I was born (Saros Series Eclipse 7 North on 18 March, 1969; my birth on 20 March 1969).

Interesting article, by the way. I always love the new stuff I find on AW. :-)

I'm keeping an eye on my sister's husband. His Jupiter is 19 Aries in the 6th and ruling the 2nd.

If the popcorn isn't enough, I have chocolate.

Solar eclipse is on friday 8th. - same day as pope's funeral. With all that massive crowd, is that the place to avoid?

Path of partial eclipse across US

http://sunearth.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse/SEmono/HSE2005/PSE2005.html

Lisa Dale Miller...

http://www.astrowisdom.com/thisnewmoon.htm

I think this is an important eclipse as we are seeing. Pluto/Sagittarius/power/the church.
The sun is exhalted in Aries which adds to the shining sun, starring role scenario.

I do believe that the glory days of the church are ending with this ritual. It's almost as if all these throngs of poor lost souls are saying goodby to something bigger.

And maybe the power of royalty in the last 2000 years as we move into the Age of Aquarius. The next transits of Pluto will be interesting, finalizing in Pisces, and then on to new cycle in Aries.
I think the power of the world is due for a major shift. It is enevitable.

I'm going to continue to watch this 19 degrees Aries point for awhile.

An eclipse blocks the light of the sun reaching the earth for a moment. Whether or not that has great significance is up in the air each time, I think. There seems to be no hard fast rules in the orchestration.

Interesting stuff Sally. Thank you.

I am one of probably a very few who hasn't seen What the Bleep. I am going to have to remedy that.

Or blocks the light of the moon. I think we might have the battle between the Sun and the Moon in play here as well.

A little light reading of the times....and there's more.

Steve Weissman | America's Religious Right - Saints or Subversives?
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/040605B.shtml

Iraqis Name Kurd President, Sunnis Uncertain
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/040605C.shtml

White House Limits Congress Overseeing CIA Detentions
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/040605D.shtml

Key GOP Senator Expresses Patriot Act Doubts
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/040605E.shtml

Bolton's UN Nomination Could Be Blocked
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/040605F.shtml

Political Groups Paid DeLay's Wife and Daughter
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/040605G.shtml

Dr. James J. Zogby | Hypocrisy and Human Rights
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/040605H.shtml

American Activism around the Black Sea
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/040605I.shtml

Nine Killed in US Afghan Helicopter Crash
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/040605J.shtml

New York Times | The Judges Made Them Do It
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/040605K.shtml

MoveOn Comes Up Big for Byrd
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/040605L.shtml

Connecticut Prepares to Sue US Over Bush Education Law
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/040605M.shtml

Gotta make a correction...."inevitable".

Boy...this April 8 eclipse will oppose my midheaven (18 Libra 48). No planets on my natal are w/in 1-2 deg of eclipse point. But it will conj my husband's Mars @ 19 Aries (conj his 23 Aries MC & ruling 9th and co-ruling 4th) and trine his Saturn (20 Sag) ruling 6th, sextile his Moon (21 Aqu) ruling 12; his Jupiter is at 22 Libra in 3rd ruling 5th. Um, I think that's all on his chart (haha?!) I have no idea what this means. Identifying the planets & aspects is ALMOST all I know astrologically, though intend to change that one day (mainly, I'm hung up on the whole "which house system to use?" question).

I will be paying attention and will share any exciting news (haha, hopefully not too exciting, if ya know what I mean!)

RE: last thread and timing of the announcement of the Pope's death, I mentioned to my husband the day before that some of you were saying you'd seen it on websites, then POOF! it was gone, and he said a DJ on KBCO (Denver/Boulder) said on air, "Well, they said the Pope died, and then they said he didn't..." something to that effect.

Sally, I am really enjoying your articles, as well as the others, and spend FAR too much time reading everyone's fascinating posts!! (weak eyesight, slow and thorough reader) I'm not getting a lot done other than reading this stuff and e-mailing it to others! But I want every one of you to know I'm THRILLED to have found out about AW existence!! Long live AW!

Sally, great article, thanks. The only time that I know the church got "ripped off" was when Henry the Eighth took matters into his own hands as in "what do you mean I can't get divorced!", confiscated all monasteries, churches, gold, ornaments, etc. and declared them his and filled his treasury with them. Boy were they pissed! He was quickly excommunicated and lived a long life afterwards and decided to have/take a few more wives!

PS Sally, how do I know if my planets are touched by this eclipse? Or how do I calculate? Can I do it on astrodienst?

This eclipse of April 8 on the dimbot's chart is quite important as is the next one of April 24

Pluto is retrograding and in May will move from 24 Sag to dimbot's Vertex (fate point) at 23 Sag.

Right now the transiting Pluto is quincunx to his natal Saturn, sometimes a health aspect, sometimes a "forced adjustment".

On the second eclipse which is active already as I write, Pluto 24 Sag is in sextile to Mars at 25
Aquar, and both form a Yod to dimbot's natal Saturn at 26 Cancer. Yod, finger of fate, forced adjustment, you don;t get a choice.

dimbot's natal Mars is 9 Virgo and on both eclipses Uranus is opposing it, (and squaring the USA Uranus (rising in the Gemini USA chart) - a violent explosive aspect . Uranus rules dimbot's 8th house cusp, adding to the sense of Peril.

While the April 8 eclipse is on Dimbot's Washington MC at 19 Aries it opposes his Jupiter
at 18 Libra and his 4th house cusp at 19 Libra. His Natal birth chart would give him a 24 Libra
4th house cusp.

There is sufficient peril to be triggered anytime between now and April 24th or when a transit triggers those sensitive points afterwards...there is much fated here - I would watch any transit to the 4th cusp of 19 to 24 Libra for a completion of what seems to be foretold. The transit of the Sun in Aries could be a trigger from the 8th to the 14th or the Moon
from the 22nd or 23rd.

In addition to all the perilous transits mentioned
above to Dimbot's chart on this April 8 eclipse transiting Mars and Vertex are inconjuct /quincunx his Sun. Again a transit that would not seem good for the health or the heart.

The wife looked terrible, but Dimbot didn't look unhealthy even though these are very unhealthy transits and with Mars moving to a sextile of Pluto both quincunx his natal Saturn in the 12th, which rules his 6th house of health...well - one would think he would be showing signs of ill health; unless it comes on suddenly with Uranus opposing his natal Mars.

Another maybe frivolous point is that the 19 degrees is exactly trine the 19 degrees Pluto in sagittarius point that the USA invaded and occupied Iraq. Other Aries factors were there.

Greenspan's wife was just on MSNBC telling the whole unpretty story of President Carter being uninvited while being invited to attend with the resident.

This is a hullabaloo not just on the net, but all over television.

And may be just more than a passing rudeness...
democrat or republican, Carter is admired for his
AIDS work and Habitat for Humanity, besides being
a Nobel Peace Prize Winner.

We might say that the eclipse on dimbot's MC is drawing major attention to his poor judgment as a l(ha) leader.

I would really like to know the history of this particular eclipse point that seems to affect Kings and Princes and those at the top.

Novak, the Prince of Darkness has been interviewed, looking so sweet and so polite, about his conversion from Judaism to a practicing
Catholic Christian. His comment, " If you think I'm mean now, you should have known me before"...

Opus Dei was exposed on the Matthews segment, with an American Priest politely saying there was worry they were trying to make a church within a church and take over and impose their beliefs, and Pat Buchanan saying that's what a catholic should be. It also came out as I said before that
Navarro Valls the Pope's spokesman is Opus Dei, there are many Opus Dei cardinals including Tessamonte of Milan (sp) and that the Pope was very close to Opus Dei which also believed in strict adherence to Catholic rules.

If Pat Buchanan, who says his four nephews in DC
go to an Opus Dei school, is for it, it can't be good.

Sally, tremendous piece....I really resonated with this, especially the historical (genealogical) aspects of it all. My prenatal eclipse is 15Aquarius17, so Neptune has gone over it. Sort of explains why I can't seem to get my feet back under me....(4th house also)
Yes, I do believe we must educate our children to this....the problem being, what alternatives to being oblivious and therefore unaware are there? We can't tell them what to do to counteract the wealth grabs (especially if both parties are bought off)....sometimes they don't want to hear it...and sometimes you go up against family members belief systems.. Interesting dilemna....

One thing for sure, when you hold strong beliefs and shut out opposing ideas, you end up isolating yourself from real discourse....

I think the New Yorker ran a piece on the Opus Dei school in DC last year....it was pretty scary....I just can't remember if it was the New Yorker...

Dear Pallas, and isn't that 9 degree virgo where the progressed suns of Smirky, SmirkPere and SmirkGrandpere are fast approaching on the 9th of April?

It isn't this particular "eclipse point" that the ancients identified with heads of state, it's "all" eclipses they identified with heads of state. Any Vedic Astrological book that deals with eclipses gives the information on how eclipses were viewed centuries and centuries ago.

I can only pray
that Tom DeLay
gets mashed on the lips
by this Eclipse....

Kicked in the Kisser....
Down with a kicker....

We'll all be so happy
to see this stinker
end up in the clinker..

sorry...I just made that up and it is awful...

Natal Sun is 20 Libra: I just found out I might be developing pneumonia, will be spending the 8th at home!! And I think I have Saturn squaring it at this time too, which also sucks.....

Marjorie Orr has some comments on this eclipse.

Mundane Events: This is an eclipse series [7 North Series] which seems to accompany challenging events for USA, especially American Presidents. The path of this eclipse falls across the USA and South America. In 1933 there was an assassination attempt on President Elect F. D. Roosevelt. In 1951 President Truman fired General MacArthur for threatening publicly to atomic bomb China. In 1969 newly elected President Nixon secretly starts the bombing of Cambodia; James Earl Ray is convicted of murdering Martin Luther King, and in the months following Senator Edward Kennedy’s car crash at Chappaquiddick with the death of Mary Jo Kopechne, and the Manson Gang murder of Sharon Tate catch the headlines. In 1987 President Reagan accepts full responsibility for the Iran-Contra scandal. It also accompanied major historical events for Germany and Chinese border disputes with Japan and Russia.

http://www.star4cast.com/index.asp?page=eclipse.asp

In terms of the heads of state....

I think kings and such are confused with the divine, as with the Egyptians, who were blatanty worshipped this way.
Maybe the eclipses bring this to the fore, and they become human for one moment, maybe never to recover.

http://www.securingamerica.com/
Wes Clark's Iraq testimony before House Armed Services Committee

...............................

Probe Into Leak of CIA Agent's Identity May Be Complete

The special prosecutor investigating whether Bush administration officials illegally revealed the identity of a covert CIA operative says he finished his investigation months ago -- except for questioning two reporters who have refused to testify, the WASHINGTON POST is planning to report on Thursday.

Special counsel Patrick Fitzgerald has interviewed columnist Robert Novak, who first published the name of undercover CIA officer Valerie Plame, the report suggests.

Fitzgerald is not likely to seek an indictment for the crime he originally set out to investigate -- whether a government official knowingly exposed a covert agent. Fitzgerald may instead seek to charge a government official with committing perjury by giving conflicting information to prosecutors.

Developing...

-----------------------------------------------------------
Filed By Matt Drudge
http://www.drudgereport.com/flash3rdn.htm

(((((Catol)))))

That is a hug.

Jo

Thank you. That was the kind of thing I was looking for.... I don;t remember ever this many
people of importance being affected, but maybe I was younger then and not paying attention:)

These "series" seem to go on forever and it takes a real researcher to look back at which eclipses
belong to which series, And the series of similar events connnected to the series. (peter piper picked a pail of pickled peppers)

______

On the matter of the Pope being declared dead and then not...I don;t remember whose comment it was that it was done that the conservatives could get the crowds to come to Rome - nooooo. Uh UH.

Think about it. After he was alive again 50 or 80
priests/cardinals/bishops were named and announced.

Hard for a Pope to name anyone and put his seal to it if he's dead. See?

More Sydney Blumenthal

http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,5165008-110881,00.html

greetings, all, and many thanks for your all continuing to make me wiser. i've posted here previously (several months ago), but have returned to lurk n learn mode, having decided that i really didn't have the sufficient knowledge and insight to add much. someday perhaps, it's a steep learning curve.

that said, if any of you might share brief insight as to how i might view/interpret the eclipse, given this: my MC is 20 deg. aries (purty dang close to conjunct), and the MC also straddles the line separating houses 9 and 10.

i extend genuine apologies if the request is out of line--please forgive. been tough sledding.

best to all.

***The Carter Snub***

well, pallas, what do you think of this. it's one thing to snub an ex president, it's another to snup a fine man of real values; but it's entirely outrageous and stupid to snub the guy heading he national electoral commission.

that's right, carter is heading a 'bipartisan' group looking into our electoral processes. he can fast track this sucker (all the real work has been done by grass roots activitists) and put out a majority report that just scalds bush's tush!

watch for it soon. i hope bush is enjoying himself in rome.

Oh, boy, this is good! It's only 1/2 page and it hits all the major points in the Social Security debacle. Something you can share with your worried, but wavering, friends and relatives:
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getpage.cgi?dbname=2005_record&page=H1755&position=all

And Mr. Kite: So happy to see you're back. From my own observations, you needn't be concerned. Knowledge here ranges from just a tiny bit to major, awesome. No matter our degree (or lack thereof) of expertise, we are all seeking to learn more. So, do bring your little boat alongside the boats of all the rest of us out in that vast sea we all inhabit.

shylurker: warm thanks for the kind words and validation, i really appreciate it!

AHA MIKE - lightbulb.

They must already know what Jimmy Carter is going to say - and they are a vengeful bunch.

I hope somebody has contacted the Vatican for permission for him to attend and flies Jimmy and Roslyn Carter over so that he may attend the funeral not in the official delegation.

the nerve of them.
If you've noticed the media seems to have gotten more realistic. They are reporting lots of negative things on the dumbot.
_______________

MR KITE

go further up this thread to where JO posted a
site and URL about the Saros SEries..."Marjorie Orr" - it gives info for each sign. It helps if you know both your sun sign and rising sign.

Pallas18--thank you. i failed to take due note of what was there in plain view. sort of emblematic of where my head's at of late :)

Shylurker,

You really don;t have to look at the Progressed
of Hw and w - just their natal. ( I dont have the grampere's)

No wonder jr attacked Iraq - competition with the father.

The father's Ascendant is 8 Virgo , Junior's Mars is 9 Virgo. At the Basilica the wife and the father had sour looks on their faces. Jr had his usual out in space face .

Transiting Uranus is opposite both the father's Ascendant and opposite Jr.s Mars. I think Nancy has referred to it as his having tantrums.

That must have been some plane trip.

Accentuated because the presence of both them, but if Junior were alone he'll be behaving this way- and when he gets home, the USA Uranus will make a t square to his Uranus/Mars opposition.

Oooooh, Pallas, you have made my day! Thank you.

Pallas,

I posted a link last thread that contained an article originally published in The Telegraph... it implied among other things what you commented about crowds of conservatives coming to Rome...

You commented:

..."Think about it. After he was alive again 50 or 80
priests/cardinals/bishops were named and announced.

Hard for a Pope to name anyone and put his seal to it if he's dead. See?"

I haven't really been reading many of the articles on Pope or watching TV (don't do that at all any more), but I have been reading what you all are posting about the funeral etc.

What you said above about naming additional cardinals after "his actual death" and then announcing his death... a little like our evoting machines being hacked and more votes than people huh...? The seem to be stacking the deck for the right result, as you suggest. The ruling class, whether church or state, sucks big time.

Sally, thanks for your comments this thread. I agree with you about things going back to 1800. My eyes are so opened now... (don't ask for what you want, you might get it, right?!) I was thinking back to Nixon... then I gave up and thought, no all the way back! Should have listened to Ross Peirot... he said not a dime's worth of difference between the two parties... well, they both seem intent on conning us...

Mr. Kite, Welcome... as Shylurker says, we are all learning and sharing... jump right in!

Interesting....according to my empheris, the 1969 Annular eclipses were March 18 and Sept 11. Woodstock started on Sept 11 and Man walked on the moon July 9....pretty amazing stuff also....to go along with the fall of kings, we have the farthest reaches of man and one of the most insane gatherings of people for a peaceful reason ever....

seems like gw* and laura are forming a human shield around dimbot and not liking it one bit!
if carter comes out with anything they can call it a partisan slam...these people are evil geniuses.
the catholic church is responsible for terming money the "root of all evil"...interesting that they kept ALL their money and insinuate that the masses are bad if they don't give all theirs away.
the complete difference between mother teresa and the pope stuns me.....

Iceberg B 16, th size of Long Island, NY which got stuck/jammed a few months ago is now on the move again at 1 kilometer a day.
_____

By the way, was it here that I said a while back there would be an underwater earthquake in the lower Pacific area ( awhile ago) ?

It was an underwater volcano.

____

Ya know, by the time we humans have as much constant tension, explosions, earthquakes, volcanoes, hurricanes, people dying.and funerals and more funerals for months on end..we're all going to be so tired, we're going to be ready and happy to go to the happy resting ground.

Who knows if there is rest and happiness there?

There are always moments of pleasure within the flux. You just gotta snatch 'em.

"Who knows if there is rest and happiness there?"

hmmm. cynical.

It's a question of faith.

Is Pluto delving and testing faith?

I think America is beginning to have Post Trauma Distress Syndrome.

Absolutely...Pluto is testing faith. The real seed is there. We're on our own. Each one decides the truth for himself.

Carol, I hope you can fight off pneumonia....Saturn is always telling us to take it easy and stay in one place! Bed sounds about right....Pat C. taught me about the hug sign, so (((((Carol))))

And one doesn't need a huge complex dogmatic system of archaic rules to behave morally and ethically. Eating no meat on Friday will not get you into prardise.

jm.... a big laugh on that one....I figured that out when I was a teenager (not a Catholic)....but now I have watched my daughter's inlaws who are devout (and I mean devout) Irish Catholics....it appears to me watching them that the denial is (as it seems to be with all the religions who practice abstinence from food and sex and modern conveniences religiously) has to do with self discipline. I was never big on self discipline, so that concept always seemed ridiculous. By having a directive saying you MUST give up something it takes away responsibility for doing it on your own. Which people like me would NEVER do. Turning on an electric light on a Saturday isn't going to change one's moral outlook....I am curious as to WHY religions demand this, and I think it has to do with "binding" people to their religion. Like brain washing. Only hungrier and without electricity and automobiles for some. Rituals are comforting in a dangerous world. And lets face it, the world is dangerous. As for making people moral and ethical? Not a chance...making them more disciplined? Probably!

Pallas...BEGINNING to have PTSS? HA.... we've had that since we were founded....actually, Barbara Hand Clow and Gerry Clow believe that human beings world wide suffer from PTSS.. from memories buried in the DNA from 11,500 years ago when the "Earth and our solar system suffered a cosmic catashrophe." http://www.handclow2012.com/astroflash.htm

Along with the Pluto speed up that is...!

Yeah, Judi

I got into the Crown Royal(speaking of kings) tonight and I'm fed up with the whole damn thing!
I think the religions demand these behaviors to strip people of their will.

Just a factual note..........Pallas'assertion that cardinals were named after a couple of newspapers (not the Vatican) annouced the pope's death is completely erroneous. No Cardinals have been named in several months. Google it

jm, I am stunned, shocked, nonplussed, do you mean "not eating meat on Friday" will not get us to heaven? Do you think the Holy See knows this?

on a more serious note, I am amazed at the seeming mass hysteria over this funeral. However his progressed chart shows 5 planets at the top of his chart in bigger than life, Leo, and his progressed Moon conjoins Pluto. There will be a cannonization soon for John Paul and his youthful dream of fame on stage will sure as heck be realized, hope he's watching.

I do feel for the Vatican and Rome and the security nightmare they must be experiencing. I don't feel sorry for the US delegation and the complete fear they, who have been able to travel in a bubble, must be feeling.

If this is true http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2005/04/06/1112489559959.html they cannot afford someone who is too right wing conservative, they will need another charismatic Pope to sell to the people because they badly need the money and people will buy. I hear there is a Cardinal from Italy is very charismatic. In fact M (one of our posters) just asked about him and I cannot remember his name. I will see if I can find it, he was Jewish and converted to Catholicism.

Thought you might find this interesting.....

As Cheyene McDonald wrote: "...The ancients identified Eclipses with powerful figures and took special note if a head of state was born, married, came to power, or died on an Eclipse, mainly because the head of state was visible, the masses were unimportant."

Malachy's Prophecies - The Last 10 Popes

John Paul II was born on May 18, 1920. On that date in the morning there was a near total eclipse of the sun over Europe. Prophecy - The 110th Pope is "De Labore Solis" (Of the Solar Eclipse, or, From the Toil of the Sun). The corresponding pope is John Paul II (1978-2005). Karol Wojtyla (John Paul II) was born on May 18, 1920 during an eclipse of the sun. Like the sun he came out of the East (Poland). (cont)

http://www.bibleprobe.com/last10popes.htm

OMG! I knew it, I knew it, I knew it, Sally. Thanks so much for that link.

I was absolutely convinced that Pluto through Sagittarius was going to shift the wealth out of the church.

Hallelujah!

Now the corporations, when Pluto does Capricorn. Then to the people, when he get deep into Aquarius.

Michael Lutin said this on the eclipse:

If you have already lost your father then the memory of his death will come back to you now in conversation or a dream.
If your father is alive then you are having serious issues with him that make you think nothing will ever be resolved.
Solar eclipses of this nature at exhaltation points of Aries are symbols of the seperation from the father.
You must now become a father to yourself, take care of and protect yourself.
The extinguishing of the solar light is the death of the male symbol.

Can you be a father now? Male or female.<

hmmmmmm, holy father, good by.

Sally _ The cardinal I referred to was the French one, Lustiger. As to cannonization, I hear it being said he was not embalmed. This is so when the body doesn't melt into an apalling mess as he's lying there, they can say, "See, he's a saint". The body not disintegrating being one of the first signs someone is a saint. I say this is one big fat lie. I find it hard to believe that he hasn't been embalmed. It's now the 5th day of him being in a room where the heat of millions of people is being generated and contained. And not for a second do I believe he is a saint, never has been, never will be. Though he has certainly, in his lifetime, tried to give that impression. Especially when he said the 3rd. Fatima prophecy was about him being shot.

I worried about work issues, but I have sufficient paid time off. My manager was understanding,too, when I explained to him my need. I'd been taking off a fair amount lately for not feeling very well. I had a bit of chest congestion that had been lingering since about January, but I thought maybe it was allergies, even when I occasionally had a sweat--no much for hot flashes! So maybe Saturn energy made me take this seriously as well.... I also have Venus at 8 Virgo too, so Uranus is here too..perhaps bed is the safest place to be this weekend. Locally, we've had a slate of shootings during the last two-three days, one Tuesday out in the open a 4pm in someone's driveway

Teresa, you may be right with concerns about the Pope's funeral. Now, most European-style funerals are sedate events, and the Pope lived a full long life, so little about the ceremony itself is likely to stir unusual passions. But the massive crowds have already had a few health problems because of heat and chills and water, and some people may actually prey on some of the mourners. And so far, I have heard no concern about any terrorists targeting either the crowd or the official mourners. So even a little incident could create some panic or unease.

I find myself contrasting the New York protest crowd to this crowd, and finding it quite lacking in some beneficial assets that help keep order. One of the features contrasting a planned protest to this is the presence of crowd marshals among the participants, who organized themselves for a meeting. IF something happens in that kind of crowd gathering, there is already a bond, people already know who to go to for aid and who to believe regarding anything from rumors to police statements. Also the protests were groups gathered into greater groups. These sub-groups are already organized and in relationships and can discipline themselves and have a coping strategy.

On the other hand, this group is composed of mostly friends, families, and sole strangers. There is little internal crowd organization, no trusted leader(s), and except for when the police gives orders, no sense of when to leave or stay.

Now I am getting uneasy...

On the whacky side!!!!

Zion Oil & Gas founder using Bible to find oil
more............
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7404743/
PatQOP

Oh, and I always respected the Jewish restriction against eating shellfish! Makes pragmatic sense, to keep the faithful flocks from food poisening!
Pat QOP

Sally, I love,love,love this aricle. Thank you so much. I also love,love,love this eclipse in my 10th house, squaring my asc. I am having a terrific time (can't you tell?) Bought my son a car, my legal battles are coming to an end from my house fire ordeal, and I have a date tonight with a man (my own age! whoo-hoo!!) who seems normal and very,very likeable. I figure it's been 13 years since my last good year, Jupiter in my 4th is bringing me another good one. YAY!!!!! Oh, did I mention I love all you people here??!!! Hope you are all blessed with whatever your own hearts desire.

(((Peg)))! Blessings and serenity be with you! You will walk through all of this.

Carol, as I understand Saturn, it tells us to do the required work, completly, and with careful attention to the details. You might want to research some health aides for you congestion. If it is viral, or bicterial and the appropriate medicine. That's what comes to me.

Those young people at DailyKos are wonderful... bright and persevering... one has come forward with this gem about *'s AWOL record:

"I was poking around through U.S. Code, at U.S. Code Search looking for offenses that would automatically disqualify Bush from being President and found this gem. I searched on the phrases incapable of holding and office across the entire breadth of the code. Amazingly enough my search returned over 7,000 hits.
Of course there were the obvious ones like, Treason and Rebellion or Insurrection. But the one that caught my eye was this one: 8 USC Sec. 1425. Ineligibility to naturalization of deserters from the Armed Forces.

8 USC Sec. 1425. Ineligibility to naturalization of deserters from the Armed Forces
A person who, at any time during which the United States has been or shall be at war, deserted or shall desert the military, air, or naval forces of the United States, or who, having been duly enrolled, departed, or shall depart from the jurisdiction of the district in which enrolled, or who, whether or not having been duly enrolled, went or shall go beyond the limits of the United States, with intent to avoid any draft into the military, air, or naval service, lawfully ordered, shall, upon conviction thereof by a court martial or a court of competent jurisdiction, be permanently ineligible to become a citizen of the United States; and such deserters and evaders shall be forever incapable of holding any office of trust or of profit under the United States, or of exercising any rights of citizens thereof."

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/4/7/15424/14347

------------

Transiting Pluto and Mercury are having 'review time' --- * got a 'get out of jail pass' on the Iraq intelligence furor, but these fascists can't keep their charade going forever... something will bust out (she says hopefully, with Neptune slick as oil pouring its veils on the outer world)

Judi,

the Clow article about 11,500 years ago looks interesting, too long for right now, but I certainly will go back to it.
___

I'm not fond of posting personal matters, since I view Sally's site as the most wonderful purely astrological outlet, however, Astrologer Michael Lutin is on the point. My father passed away some years ago on April 1st, and Mercury was retrograde at the time also. Every anniversary of the passing,a 24 hour candle is lit and prayers said as is the ritual, and so, yes, this became combined.

I've wondered for a long time if people who die on Mercury Rx signifies that surely they will have to come back and do it again.
______

Teg:

"Just a factual note..........Pallas'assertion that cardinals were named after a couple of newspapers (not the Vatican) annouced the pope's death is completely erroneous. No Cardinals have been named in several months."

I could not find any listing of new Cardinals named either by searching Google, however it was announced on tv, and after they had said he passed earlier, which then was corrected.

"Factual" and "completely erroneous" are not applicable descriptions here as the Vatican is known for "bending" the truth as in the case of
the circumstances of the death of John Paul I.

I certainly am not the only one here who heard the announcement of the 50-80 new (cardinals?priests?) posts being named. Thus your statement
or challenge is not factual and completely erroneous. :)>
_____

This April 8 eclipse on the Aries/Libra Axis has to do with the head, Aries rules the head, so watch that things don't fall on it. :)

I really love this site! I've been lurking for several months and read the posts daily. So many insightful observations! I was born/raised in D.C.
(Leo/Virgo cusp 8/23/52) I live in Atlanta now. I also 'survived' 12 years of Catholic school. When I watched the Bushites paying their respects to the pope I couldn't help but laugh at how silly (and out of place) Laura and Condi looked in their long 'chapel veils'. I haven't seen those things in years! What phoneys!!
Just had to share that. Thanks again for this site and all the knowledge I'm gaining! You guys are great!

thank you Pat C.

DarkCrystal, welcome! and we all share your love for this site & it's outstanding astrologers.

Sally, in my current state of self-centered well deserved euphoria, I forgot to give my sympathy to you & your daughter for the cancelled wedding. (I'm sorry, it was rude, shame on me). We all know the platitudes- probably for the best, and all that, but I imagine it was difficult & painful. May she meet the true love of her life soon, and I hope you all are okay with it.

Peg, how perfectly lovely and thoughtful of you. My daughter is absolutely thrilled that she had the courage to call it off, it's 'Mom' who is saying "oh honey, I am so proud of you, that is such a strong decision" and inside I am thinking "couldn't you have done this BEFORE we bought and altered the dress?"

Actually however, I am happy it was called off, there was something just not right and I didn't think Katie really wanted to marry him. So it's a good thing and I think you are absolutely wonderful for caring.

Pat C, good advice. One thing that has occurred to me during the stretch is that I need to get back to my internist. I haven't seen him in two years. Once this stretch is over (Monday), I'm going to get an appointment (I hope I still can) to see him and talk to him about some other issues. I have been seeing my diabetes specialist for 2 years, and she's good, but she's a specialist. I probably should need the rest of me checked out too.

Also, years ago, when I first studied astrology (30 years ago)-who'd believe that it's been 30 years? I heard of something called "cell salts". Does anyone have a recommendation?

Folks over at DU are wondering who the seventh person is viewing the Pope's body (arrrgh!) with Smirky. Even I find it hard to believe what they've done to Carter. See if you can identify the person (there's an enlarged picture of him later on in the thread).
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3439902&mesg_id=3439902

I agree, it's a shame what they did to Carter, and to blame it on the Vatican having a limit-is even worse and clueless. If a King had eight children, or eight wives, and all eight wanted to accompany him to the funeral, would the Vatican tell him to keep one of them at home? Who limits the number of official mourners anyway? And any President who served during the late Pope's tenure, and who dealt with him, certainly deserves an official seat at the funeral. I don't think the Vatican would be that rude-or even press the issue unless the entourage was uncommonly large.

OMG Peg, now I forgot to tell you YEAAAAA, on the car, on the court case and on the DATE

Carol, go here. http://tinyurl.com/6ew7k

Woops. Here http://tinyurl.com/5b93j

thanks Sally. We'll see about the date, trying not to have expectations ya know? But life feels pretty good right now. I should've included another eclipse momentous event- a HUGE stupid, emotional "thing" with my mom; not too surprising I guess: 4th-10th house. I'm glad you and your daughter are ok, (I wondered about the dress, too bad you're right, but you made me laugh my head off).

CIA case leak hits dead end...another whitewash

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/printer_040705Z.shtml

Pat C, thanks. Now I looked up my ailment and it's only obtainable by prescription, so it looks like I would need to see an osteopath as well, maybe even an acupuncturist and massage therapy. I need a tune-up, not a doctor!
:)

Hello everyone in the great cyber-nation of AstroWorld.

Hey, I would like to add my two cents (or perhaps 4) to the post above re: whether the pope was embalmed.

Can't personally say whether he was, of course, though one would imagine his embalming was akin to that of Eva Peron, whose body lasted around 20 years! BUT...several years ago some friends and I buried a loved one; prior to the burial we kept his body at home (ice on the belly) from Thurs AM death till Sat. noonish, 1 burial. While changes do occur, the thing doesn't just up and decompose in that amount of time. After rigor mortis, joints loosen up (floppy like a Raggedy Anne doll). Fluids may leach out of the body, more or less, probably depending on the physical state of the person who died. Anyway, I can't imagine he WASN'T embalmed (can you imagine all those people seeing fluids leaching out?!). Just silly, and there he is being carried all over the place and then everyone filing in to see him. (and per TV pictures I've seen, I'd imagine they did apply makeup, though being up close and personal would reveal that for sure, one way or the other)

Oh, and one more thing: it's a fallacy that embalming (excepting exceptional embalming, e.g. Eva P) preserves the body for more than a few days. So a pope would be VERY VERY pickled indeed to last through all this!

The church is, of course, where the "rules" that apply to sainthood originate. They'd want to make sure people believe, then, that the "rules" were followed to canonize someone, right?

Churches have all kinds of ways to awe and mystify the congregation -- that's how they keep their power. (my, that sounded a little cynical!)

Gotta run. This is the worst website for people who are politiphiles and astrophiles and procrastinators!!!! ;-D

Lori, don't you know that rules were made to be broken?:) Maybe back in the old days, perhaps,but with the combined heat of television lights, security devices and cameras, and a million people lining past the coffin, it would be foolhardy NOT to change their minds about embalming. Back in the old days, only people living nearby or embassies from other nations would have seen LIVE a dead pope. Everyone else would have had pictures at the most. But technology can reveal every wrinkle and flaw, the scent would be unbearable with the additional heat. Besides the only people who would have sure knowledge would be the very people working for the Vatican anyway, so who would tell?

"Churches have all kinds of ways to awe and mystify the congregation -- that's how they keep their power."

FACT

Shylurker-
That looks like the infamous Paul Wolfowitz to me(the unidentified 7th person in the pic at Dem Underground....)

Namaste Y'all, and TRUTH!!!!

the vatican had told the tv newspeople the Pope
was "lightly embalmed"...

since I have no knowledge or experience with enbalming, nor is it a subject I particularly wanted to know about.. but I have been wondering
how they could keep his body out for so long without refrigeration?

Do you suppose those pillows and under the slab is
refrigeration?

who knows. Anything is possible.

A trivia note: Not only was Evita Peron embalmed, they started embalming her near the end, before she actually died. They wanted to be sure she would maintain her looks and keep the legend going.

Oh, gross...

Yes, M, you're correct about Evita. In fact, they took away her pain killers because they wouldn't work well with the embalming process they were doing. So, not only was she being embalmed alive, she was in a great deal of pain! I know she did some pretty bad stuff when she was in power (as well as some good stuff, I'm sure), but you gotta feel for the woman -- anyone, in fact! -- spending her last weeks like that.

I would assume there is some refrigeration involved in what the Pope is resting on. And people really aren't THAT close to him, so who knows?

Join the revolution for progressive legislation
http://www.boycott-republicans.com
Write this url on your one, five and ten dollar bills. Or put it on 3x5 cards and pin it on bulletine boards at the supermarket, library and around your town.

Here are some more buy blue sites.
http://www.buyblue.org
http://www.2005blue.com
http://www.choosetheblue.com
http://www.imblue.net

Petition site for progressives.
http://www.petitionspot. com/petitions/progressive

Personally, I think hitting them in the wallet is the only way to stop them.

Carol: you and I agree, definitely.

Thanks, Pat C.! We agree, too! :)

Pallas: he could certainly be laying on a cooled slab! Though we used party ice (haha, a fact!), I understand the preferred substance to preserve a bod is dry ice. And people involved with groups such as Final Passages in N. Cal and Natural Transitions in CO will tell you it works better than embalming.

"lightly embalmed" means less formaldehyde in the veins than...heavily? I'll skip details unless you ask to know; sounds like not your favorite topic.

M. and Jonathan, in addition to it being gross (!) re: Evita's embalming starting before death, I find it hard to believe, knowing what's involved in embalming (again, I'm sparing Pallas the details). Please don't misunderstand. I'm not saying I don't believe YOU. But I'm incredulous! How could they even do such a thing (I don't mean ethically -- though that too -- I mean the question in a practical, physical way, and yes, I really do want to know. Please tell me more!)

I don't 'spose we could discuss other less disturbing bio-unit behaviors... like bushadruggie's homo-sexual torture at Abu Ghraib.

And now for a little POPEurri of fun, twisted facts and allegations.

http://www.rense.com/general63/popo.htm

Have to share this as well. . .awhile back i was curious about admittance to the Vatican Library since i believe that an incredible store of enlightening work (much to do with astrology, reincarnation, etc., etc.) is secreted away there. Well. . .you too can visit the Vatican's site and know that to gain admittance to the library you have to present your specific request in writing AND it must have an accompanying letter of recommendation (and not just from anyone i might add).

All the new posters! HELLO! IS THIS A GREAT SITE OR WHAT!

karen

Just for fun, the time of the wedding ceremony is mentioned several paragraphs into this article. Anyone want to take a crack at the chart?

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/04/07/royal.wedding.sins/index.html

My first thought on reading about the embalming question (geez...Evita embalmed before she died? Quel horriblis!) was of Yogananda....I used to love going to the Self Realization Fellowship place in LA....so I looked it up:

Mukunda Lal Ghosh (January 5, 1893 in Gorakhpur, in northern India - March 7, 1952), better known as Paramahansa Yogananda, was a Bengali yogi and guru. He is revered by his followers as a "Premavatar" or until his Mahasamadhi or physical death in 1952

Claims of bodily incorruptibility

Some of Yogananda's followers have made claims of his bodily incorruptibility. As reported in Time Magazine on August 4, 1952, Harry T. Rowe, Los Angeles Mortuary Director of the Forest Lawn Memorial-Park, stated in a notarized letter:

The absence of any visual signs of decay in the dead body of Paramahansa Yogananda offers the most extraordinary case in our experience.... No physical disintegration was visible in his body even twenty days after death.... No indication of mold was visible on his skin, and no visible drying up took place in the bodily tissues. This state of perfect preservation of a body is, so far as we know from mortuary annals, an unparalleled one.... No odor of decay emanated from his body at any time....

Skeptics point to Yogananda's death certificate, which indicates his body was embalmed. They claim the full text of Rowe's letter, as included in a memorial booklet put out by the SRF, indicates his surprise at the described effect was based merely on the lack of use of special creams in addition to the embalming fluid.

a word on the solar eclipse at 19 Aries. I have
Pluto at 19 Leo and Neptune at 20 Libra. Also have Mercury, Venus, Sun and Jupiter in Aries in
very wide aspects. 3 weeks ago I was diagnosed with breast cancer. I start my first chemotherapy treatment on my Solar Return. Surgery, radiation, and chemotherapy-- By mid June-July, I should be cancer free.
Helen

Last night I watched a bit of CSPAN in which Harry REiD of NV was handed petitions protesting Frist's "nuclear" option on filibusters....He said in his 23 years in Congress, that this was the most important issue ever to come up, as it was a direct assault on the Constitution....and considering that Dems had confirmed 96% of the judicial and other appointments (highest amount for any president in 3 decades), absolutely outrageous for the rethugs to be pulling this crap. (he didn't say THAT)....these petetions are pouring into to his and other offices and he said it was time for people to call GOP offices and be heard....he called this the "arrogancy of the Republicans"....

Helen....wow...my goodness, you have moved fast (which is expected of an Aries) and all my blessings to you....may you heal all the cells of their extraordinary travails and emerge all pink and new !

Namaste....

Sally...somehow I missed that part about your daughter calling off her wedding....but still, better to pay for a dress than years of bitter marriage and divorce...still, it is dissapointing and sad.

Then try Craig's list to sell it!!!

This Jupiter retrograde isn't over until June 5....It will also be a trying time for Jupiter ruled people, no?

I just read that today's the birthday of Jerry "Gov Moonbeam" Brown. He was born 4/7/1938. So, I guess the ol' eclipse will hit him too. My.

Pallas........maybe you were listening to Fox about the cardinals. You were wrong. Do you believe everything you hear on tv? I will go to the trouble of finding the sites I checked. These are 117 cardinals under the age of 80 who will vote. They have all been cardinals for some time Believe it! I will post the relevant site(s)

Lori,

I appreciate your incredulity and will spend some time later searching for the info I read a while ago alluding to them injecting her with chemicals to prevent the inevitable "ugliness" that comes with illness.

Speaking of illness, death, et al., a close friend of my personal trainer committed suicide night before last and just today, here in NYC, I've seen FIVE ambulances idle past with their lights flashing but their sirens off. Seems a lot of people are taking advantage of the portal this Eclipse is opening.

Helen, I have no worries for you. You sound like a fighter with a great attitude and many believe, as I do, that THAT is the thing that pulls people through. I strongly suspect you'll come out of this in one piece and much wiser.

http://tinyurl.com/67tzj

CBS Wins Peabody for Abu Ghraib Report

CBS News won a Peabody Award on Thursday for its report on abuse at the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq, a story anchored by Dan Rather and produced by Mary Mapes, who was later fired by CBS for her role in the story about President Bush's military service.

Comedy Central's Jon Stewart won his second Peabody Award, for his satiric take on the 2004 election campaign, while HBO's Western "Deadwood" also won.

The George Foster Peabody awards, for broadcasting excellence in both news and entertainment, are given by the University of Georgia. Thirty-two awards will be handed out at the ceremony May 16.

The controversy over CBS's discredited story about Bush's National Guard service played no part in the judges' determination that the Abu Ghraib report on "60 Minutes II" deserved honor, said Horace Newcomb, Peabody Awards director.

"We feel that this story stood on its own merit," Newcomb said. "It was really an important moment in television this year."

More....

Pallas.......re the Cardinals. The last time any were named was in 2003. There are numerous sites with lists and dates of the consistories at which cardinals were named, together with their dates of birth, which is relevant because they can only remain electors of the next pope until their 80th birthday, and some are now older. The most well laid out site I found was http://catholic-pages.com/hierarchy/cardinals.asp

HE BLINKED!!

http://tinyurl.com/559hb

Schwarzenegger Abandons Pension Overhaul

Under pressure from firefighters and police officers, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger on Thursday backed off, for now, his plan to privatize California's public employee pension system.

The Republican said "misconceptions" among firefighters and police officers that privatization would strip them of death and disability benefits had come to dominate the issue.

Over the past few weeks, Schwarzenegger has waged a campaign to put privatization on the ballot during a special election next fall. But on Thursday, he said he would wait until the June 2006 election if lawmakers did not craft a compromise measure in the coming months.

More...

But the people mobbed Clinton in a good way.

http://tinyurl.com/6ztsu

President Bush expressed regret on Thursday to Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi over the death of an Italian secret service agent in Iraq.

On the eve of Pope John Paul's funeral, Bush told Berlusconi of his regret at a dinner of pasta and sliced beef. They were joined by former presidents Bill Clinton and George Bush, the president's father, at the 16th century Villa Madama on a hill overlooking Rome.

"They did have a discussion about the shooting incident," White House spokesman Scott McClellan told reporters, adding that Berlusconi had raised the issue.

"The president reiterated our regret over the incident and other than that, as you know, there is a joint investigation that continues."

They also discussed other issues, including transatlantic relations, the Middle East, Iraq and Ukraine, he said.

U.S. troops fatally shot the Italian agent, Nicola Calipari, on March 4 when they opened fire on a car in which he was escorting Italian journalist Giuliana Sgrena, a hostage who had just been released, to Baghdad airport. Sgrena was wounded.

The incident stunned Italy and generated hostility toward the United States. A joint U.S.-Italian investigation has yet to conclude its probe.

Berlusconi, a close Bush ally on Iraq, said afterwards he would begin withdrawing Italy's 3,000 troops from Iraq in September, in consultation with the allies there.

Bush, who will be the first sitting U.S. president to attend a papal funeral, also met Italian President Carlo Azeglio Ciampi for more than half an hour and the White House said they discussed developments in the Middle East, Iraq and Afghanistan.

Bush later held a reception at the U.S. ambassador's residence with American cardinals, archbishops and bishops attending the funeral.

The White House said Bush was intent on keeping his visit to Rome low key in order to keep the focus on John Paul.

"This is a time of mourning. It's also a time to celebrate the life of a great moral leader and that's the reason we are here in Rome," McClellan said.

With Bush just about every step of the way have been the two former presidents. They attended Bush's daily intelligence briefing and the reception for the U.S. Catholic leaders.

Clinton did manage to peel off. He was spotted after lunch near Rome's famed Spanish Steps talking to people who mobbed him.

Bush and his wife Laura are to depart for their Crawford, Texas, ranch shortly after attending the funeral.

Jonathan, I will leave it to you to provide the proof as my books are all packed away.

The point to all this ghastly talk about enbalming is that nothing is as it seems, and spin is always dancing its devious whirl. Evita wasn't the saint they tried to paint her as and neither is this pope, which is why enbalmed/not enbalmed is an issue. Frankly, there is even a question as to when he actually died. The networks were first told he died 10 days before he "actually did".

http://smh.com.au/news/World/Rumours-sweep-Rome-death-was-kept-hidden/2005/04/05/1112489490671.html?oneclick=true

And wahoo as to Arnuld backing down.

BTW, I have been reading and have come across some information that they probably irradiated the Pope to kill the bacteria. Evidently that equipment is not too tough to get and it would have killed the bacteria in the gut.

M, I was thinking the same thing about the date of death.

http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh040705.html

ETERNAL WORLD MSNBC! The Catholicization of NBC News was on full display last evening:

The Catholicization of NBC News was on remarkable display last night as the network’s cable channel, MSNBC, swept aside all actual news to sing hymns to John Paul II. On our cable system, we already had a Catholic channel—EWTN—as is completely appropriate. What isn’t appropriate is NBC’s effort to turn its cable “news” channel into a branch of its executives’ piety.

How Catholic is NBC News? Let’s run down the major players, as we’ve done in the past. Anchor of NBC Nightly News? Brian Williams, Irish Catholic. Head of Meet the Press? Tim Russert, Irish Catholic. Official hood ornament for MSNBC? Chris Matthews, Irish Catholic. Ubiquitous commentator on all programs MS? Pat Buchanan, Irish Catholic. And who’s the president of NBC? Bob Wright, Irish Catholic. Indeed, five years ago, in a profile of Russert, USA Today’s Peter Johnson mentioned the religious bond that connects the NBC gaggle:
JOHNSON (11/1/00): Russert, a Roman Catholic, refers to his religion on Meet the Press and speaks reverentially about moderating. "If there's such a thing as a non-religious vocation, this is it." Colleagues say he shares a Catholic bond with NBC president Bob Wright and General Electric chairman Jack Welch.
No, there’s nothing wrong with referring to one’s religion on the air. And there’s not necessarily anything wrong with “sharing a Catholic bond” with one’s employers—even if that bond seems to produce an oddly monochromatic gang of big players at a powerful network. But there was something wrong—something badly wrong—with last night’s MSNBC programming, which mixed computer doves and lachrymose hymns with a papal pep rally so unbalanced and silly that the evening would have seemed out of place even on EWTN (Eterrnal Word Television Network). On and on the Catholic piety went, through hour-long shows by Matthews, Tucker Carlson, and Joe Scarborough. Did anything actually happen this week right here in your actual country? You’d never know it on MSNBC! For a taste of how silly the programming was, read Keith Morrison’s endless, ghoulish report about how blue John Paul’s eyes really were (on Carlson’s program; at some point, they’ll get around to posting the transcripts here). But we suggest you read the transcripts from all three cited shows to get a taste of where NBC’s “Catholic bond” may be taking this “news” operation.

More...

Retreat
by Jamie Court

Arnold showed the first sign of waving his white handkerchief today when he announced at a press conference he would not go forward in 2005 with his proposal to gut the pension protections of cops, firefighters, nurses and other public employees. With negotiations between the Gov and Dems going hot and heavy in the state house over redistricting plans, it seems like the house of cards that is Arnold's special election is about to fall down all around him. If legislative leaders play their cards right, it will be Arnold who looks like the Joker.

Read more at: http://ArnoldWatch.org

You can add this to the POPEpurri:

I heard this about one of the popes who wasn't embalmed... his nose fell off in the days he was being viewed.

The Gropees Groped back the Gropenator...whaaaaHHHOOOOO

I wonder how Maria is handling this....!

Funny...the 'girly men' didn't pitch the kind of battle that the other 'specal interest group' the CA Nurses Assc. did.....the Nurses got others to join in and swell the ranks....they did urban guerilla warfare! Sticking together helps....I hope the DNC notices that sticking together HELPS fight fascism...

Pat C....the REALLY Devout Irish Catholic Inlaws (hereafter known as DICIs) have always watch Faux and voted rethug....(my son in law is a disappointment to them in that he is 180 deg the other direction). Perhaps they will start watching MSNBC now instead...

I was actually telling a friend in central CA about Andrea Mitchell's story on Carter getting snubbed when it came on the air on MSNBC...I am surprised it was run! But I happened to also tune in a day earlier and saw the ambassador to the Vatican Ray something or other going on about how awful the Democrats were to not allow prolife candidates in their 'tent'....and I think it was Chris Matthews show, and he was nodding, yes, it is terrible.

Since I never had MSNBC until last month, I really didn't know it was run by the Irish mafia......I will send this to the DICIs!

I also seem to remember that it was Jews who were excoriated for 'running everything' (and in Hollywood, that was absolutely true)...the Irish have finally hit the BIG TIME!

Did you know that "the vatican has always used astrology:
The Vatican council explains the procession of the Zodiac to the Pope.
The sign of Leo is directly above the Pope's head. Leo rules Fame/France/Italy/Light/Love Kings and the throne.
http://www.drturi.com/vaticanzodiac.html
(thanks, WV)

Saturn is going into Leo in July....might we be seeing some big changes to these countries? Not to mention, matters of the thrones and kings and cabbages and sealing wax...

Shylurker, thanks for the link on Social Security! It's excellent!

Loved those posts Judi! Heh heh.

Pat C...I am in a goofy mood.
JM -- Popepurri is excellent!

It is probably all the benedryl I'm taking...

That could do it Judi!!

Here are two excellent articles.

Norman Solomon | Beyond the Narrow Limits of News Coverage
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/040705D.shtml

Jonathan Schell | Faking Civil Society
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/040705E.shtml

I do so hope biology class is over for now. It's getting to me a bit. I wish they would do what they use to do, just have a funeral pyre.

M.,

I posted the link on JPII dying on Friday on the last thread... it says, a "day earlier" than announced... :) Where have you heard ten days earlier than announced?

I've given up watching TV or even listening to the radio... I get information from the internet. imho the TV has become infoentertainment... the same folks who decide how to market tooth paste, decide how to market the "news"... we had a horrible week's coverage of Reagan's demise and we got weeks on Terri S. --- now more than a week on the Pontiff... Frankly, I'm sick of hearing about it... I don't care if he was embalmed or not. I don't give any power to the Holy See PERIOD. The man is dead. * and the rest are like buzzards flailing over the corpse to get political photo ops... how macarbe is that? Corporate Media will take you there, if you want to go... it seems to me there are a lot of things going on in the world that we could focus on... and give this circus a rest. If that sounds crass, it's probably because it is... I make no apology for that... we passed the point of obsessing over it sometime back.

How 'bout those 16 American troops that died in Afghanistan yesterday? Or those women in Iraqi prisons? Or those dying in the Sudan? Did you know Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko is coming to Washington? (you remember, the one the CIA put in office) He's going to address a joint session of Congress (yeah, really) and then ask for money, and I hear * has promised Ukrain a seat on NATO (I thought that was breaking up?) I'm sure he'll get the money, then turn around and buy military supplies from US Corporations (what a game these Boyz have going!)

And China announced today the US needs to fix its own economic problems.

Yeah, lots going on while these fascists play their three card monte...

Jonathan, thanks, I appreciate you appreciating my incredulity! It's just so hard to imagine they injected her while she was still alive. (I don't remember that from the B'way show! haha)
Sorry to hear about your trainer's friend. I think things look quite different from "beyond the clouds," but what a painful experience down here!

M., you are absolutely right, on all accounts. Definitely!

Oh, Judi, that's really interesting about Yogananda. Thanks!

jm, HILARIOUS! maybe this pope's nose will fall off, too? international television! hahahahah!!!!!! (I want you all to know I have a natal Scorpio stellium)

AW has become my new #1 news source. Thanks, everyone! Pat C. is a one person news corp, for sure. Which is good, since I don't get that catlick station, msnbc.

Yeah, Jo.... Basta!

My next book:

Of Rotting Popes and Buzzards

Pat C., sorry! I'm done. No more mentions.

jm -- AMEN!!!!!!

Oh, and Pat C. You're right.

Maybe we should move beyond biology on to trigonometry.

Sen Byrd tells Judy Woodruff she's 'intimidated'. [from the transcript]:

WOODRUFF: Well, let me ask you this, there are Democrats on the more moderate end who say that the vocal, the most vocal elements of the party are the liberal groups like MoveOn, and they say it's not good for the party. Is that something you're concerned with?
BYRD: You know, I pay no attention to the talk about labels. What I'm concerned about is the liberties of the people of this country. The liberty to speak out, to say what they think, and not be intimidated. That's one thing that's happening in this political atmosphere these days.

And I have to say there's too much of the effort to intimidate. There's an effort to intimidate those who speak out, who are critical of the administration, who are critical of the president.

They try to intimidate, intimidate the media. That's a good one. They've got you intimidated.

Intimidate senators who have the backbone to stand up for the rights of the people they represent, they try to intimidate. They try to -- now they're trying to intimidate the courts. Back off.

WOODRUFF: Well, I certainly don't believe they have me intimidated or my news organization intimidated.

BYRD: I don't think so. But look back at debate on the war.

Where was it? The Senate was mute. The media didn't ask questions, and the people didn't ask questions. We were mute.

People were intimidated. That's the effort now, is to intimidate anybody who has this common sense, and the courage and a strong feeling of what's right and what's wrong, trying to intimidate them. They're trying to do that to me.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/4/7/182818/9238

-----------

How's that for Aries energy?

I sure don't want to stop anyone from all the interesting stuff posted here. I hope I didn't offend. It's truly not meant that way.

I was rooting around on Google for some info on the twelve signs of the zodiac and the correlation with the twelve apostles. I came up with these links. One of them is a religious fanatic, but still interesting.

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=31236

http://curezone.com/forums/m.asp?f=124&i=1892

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/research33.html

http://www.ozhoroscope.com.au/why_12_signs_of_the_zodiac.htm

http://news.surfwax.com/astronomy/files/Zodiac_Astronomy.html

http://reluctant-messenger.com/aquarian_gospel_introduction.htm

http://www.kingschapel.org/signs/Signs1.htm

Jo, that Byrd piece is delicious!!!

Didn't take it that way, Pat. Not offended at all.

With all this Aries, it feels like we are in a hot rod roadster going at top speed. We certainly need to pay attention to direction.

I'm so glad Jm. (whew)

This an old article I have had for years. It is well worth reading during these times.

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=51&ItemID=2919

Confronting Empire

I’ve been asked to speak about "How to confront Empire?" It’s a huge question, and I have no easy answers.

When we speak of confronting "Empire," we need to identify what "Empire" means. Does it mean the U.S. Government (and its European satellites), the World Bank, the International Monetary Fund, the World Trade Organization, and multinational corporations? Or is it something more than that?

In many countries, Empire has sprouted other subsidiary heads, some dangerous byproducts — nationalism, religious bigotry, fascism and, of course terrorism. All these march arm in arm with the project of corporate globalization.

Let me illustrate what I mean. India — the world’s biggest democracy — is currently at the forefront of the corporate globalization project. Its "market" of one billion people is being prized open by the WTO. Corporatization and Privatization are being welcomed by the Government and the Indian elite.

It is not a coincidence that the Prime Minister, the Home Minister, the Disinvestment Minister — the men who signed the deal with Enron in India, the men who are selling the country’s infrastructure to corporate multinationals, the men who want to privatize water, electricity, oil, coal, steel, health, education and telecommunication — are all members or admirers of the RSS. The RSS is a right wing, ultra-nationalist Hindu guild which has openly admired Hitler and his methods.

More....

Here's one more reason to move to Canada...

..."Belafonte called Powell out on the Larry King Show on CNN. Said Belafonte, "There's an old saying. In the days of slavery, there were those slaves who lived on the plantation and there were those slaves that lived in the house. You got the privilege of living in the house if you served the master ... exactly the way the master intended to have you serve him." Belafonte continues to make waves by supporting an effort to have U. S. President George W. Bush, former CIA Director George Tenet; the former commander in Iraq, Lt. Gen Richard Sanchez, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and several other military leaders arrested for torture changes.

Gail Davidson, Co-Chair of Lawyers against the War (LAW) has laid seven torture charges against U. S. President George W. Bush. If Davidson, a Vancouver, Canada based-lawyer and her organization have their way President Bush will be tried in Canada on these charges. The charges were laid when President Bush visited Canada on November 30, 2004. These charges concern the well-known abuses at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq, photos of which shocked the world last year, as well as similar abuses at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba that have emerged more recently."

-------------

The Black Commentator has MUCH more:

http://www.blackcommentator.com/133/133_guest_lawyers.html

"...concern the well-known abuses at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq, photos of which shocked the world last yr, as well as similar abuses at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba that have emerged more recently."

I love the BlackCommentator... they consistently have excellent & insightful articles. However, I don't believe "the world" was shocked at the photos. Ones "suffering shock" were far more likely to be "pink folks" in the western hemisphere. ;O)

Information Clearing House stories...

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/

For those so inclined...

On Wednesday April 13, 2005 - at 9 pm EDT - NBC will premiere the limited 8-series - one-hour episodes of 'Revelations' about the end of time. "More than 2,000 years ago the first bible looked far ahead to the world at the end of time - a world of wars such as not occurred since the beginning of creation. This is the world forechosen as the end of days."

Set just before the start of Armageddon, the series will follow two central characters, a physicist and a nun, who are racing against the clock to see if the end of the world apocalypse can be averted. Bill Pullman stars as astrophysicist Dr. Richard Massey, a Harvard professor whose daughter is murdered by satanists. Natascha McElhone stars as a nun, Sister Josepha Montifiore, who recruits Massey to help investigate whether what's told in the Book of Revelations is starting to come true. They partner in a last-ditch effort to forestall the End of Days.
This is another story about the battle of good and evil. The end has to create balance - which is a metaphor in the duality of our electromagnetic program - pole shifts in consciousness.

FYI - Bill Pullman also played the role of the President of the US in the 1996 film I mention in my messages below from Z ... "Independence Day." Is Z bringing us a message about the end of time?

If you look with 'greater vision' - you too will see how the plot of our script is coming to fruition as souls awaken and return to higher consciousness at the end of time. It's a good thing!

This is lovely, wonderful posts, some of the best and most insightful ever.

Jo and Joanna I cannot agree more about the Black Commentator, it is the best on the web. They really put their finger on what is going on.

I am going to do a blatent plug here because I just had my eyes open today to a world of beauty and fantasy I didn't know existed. A friend of mine sent me some doll magazines, not just any old doll magazine but one full of rich textures and dreams and beauty. If anyone out there knows of anybody or if anyone collects dolls or if you just want a treat that is off the beaten path, get FDQ (Fashion Doll Quarterly) if you cannot find it let me know and I will find out where it's sold, but I would expect anyplace that deals with dolls. This is a wow.

There is a writer called Zoe, and no one knows who she is (says she can be anyone, and wonders who she will be when she puts on her new lipstick) she has a magic in weaving a spell of delight and a way of moving one's mind into another diminsion. I'm telling you this is wonderful and a grand respite from this world of travail we have right now.

Hey Jo. I have a friend at ABC news and his wife called me on that day (a monday) and told me they'd just rec'd intel that the pope was dead. Then she called me back a little later and said they were now saying it was a false alarm. Then 4am (new york) on Saturday, they were called and told to come in for he was dead, and then they had to wait for the Vatican to announce it.

The funny thing was that when my friend first called, I was doing something and not listening very carefully. So when she called to say the pope was dead I said, "what do you mean Bob Hope is dead? He died a while ago."

I love Polly Toynbee, and she is right on here..

The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments:
Shortcut to: http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,5166063-103677,00.html

WV that article is enough to make one stand up and cheer. Yes, why is it that every religion on earth seem to be bound by their fear and anger at a woman's body

This is definitely not a good omen.

Mercury retrograde, and the cardinals will regret this decision. Either they don;t get it or they are thumbing their noses at America.

The cardinals have chosen,

ready for this ?

Bernard Law to say the mass tomorrow .

?????

Sally, who is this Zoe?

Thanks for the very lucid clarification on eclipses, Sally.

How about that! The Pope being born on one and being buried on one. And the true "Christian" Americans gathered there to praise the Christian Pope...excluding Pres. Jimmy Carter who had a lot in common with some of the Pope's initiative. Guess Shrub and his cronies forgot the part about forgiving their brothers 70 times 70, etc. Jimmy had to be punished, or excommunicated, or something.
Just finished crusing the internet about the Malachy prophecies and the Fatima prophecies. Enough to make any Christian run far,far away. Angelic hosts more akin to a shrieking wraith of hell, damnation and destruction if we don't repent. That aside, I did notice the visions of Mary always appear before there is a war. In Spain, in Egypt, in Lebanon, in Yugoslavia. You'll know the *it is going to hit the fan when she appears over a Cathedral or on some hill top in Washington or New York City. Civil war, or some such stuff. Now wouldn't that put Project Blue Book on it's ass. "Unidentified flying, shimmering....say what!"
I still want this eclipse to be very dramatic in it's darkening of the light for this "regime," this group of liars, for that is what they are. I still amuse myself with theatrical scenes akin to huge Greek or Shakespearian Tragedies, and this time, the furies win. And they can take O'Reilly with them. too.

First, check this out:

http://www.aljazeera.com/me.asp?service_ID=7749

Now, you ask yourself, who in this part of the world reported the Ha'aretz piece?
Almost no-one, is the answer. There was an article, of course, in the New York Sun,
http://www.aljazeera.com/me.asp?service_ID=7749
but what about the big-time mainstream press? Well, here's the New York Times'
entire coverage--80 words--of the Russian situation:

January 25, 2005 Tuesday
Late Edition - Final

SECTION: Section A; Column 4; Foreign Desk; Pg. 7

LENGTH: 80 words

HEADLINE: World Briefing Europe: Russia: Jewish Groups Under Attack

BYLINE: By Sophia Kishkovsky (NYT)

BODY:
A group of legislators from the Communist Party and the nationalist party Motherland sent a letter to Prosecutor  General Vladimir V. Ustinov demanding an investigation of Jewish organizations and accusing them of fomenting  anti-Semitism. One Motherland member, Aleksandr Krutov, said that ''often these people themselves organize provocations.'' Anti-Semitic incidents, including the beating of a rabbi in Moscow this month, have been on the rise in Russia. Sophia Kishkovsky (NYT)

And that's all she wrote. So Al-Jazeera beats out all the US competition in reporting
on this growing danger to the Jews of Russia.

Sally, WV: regarding Toynbee's article.

Since most religions are patriarchal, do you think most men fear having their seed destroyed or expunged, or that they themselves might have been aborted? Don't mean to insult men, here, but there is something beyond the logical here which has to do with the maintaining of power. The limbic brain thinks," my seed aborted!?" And, of course, the limbic system never says," I am afraid of this, therefore I will forbid it." It says, "God doesn't want this, and you will burn in hell for this."

Choosing Law is a disgrace and a slap in the face. If this is any indication of how they will carry on in the future, well I say, good for us. These boys are dumber than sticks! I can see how Malachy's prediction about the new pope and church can be true. It seems well within their ability to set up their own demise.

Hey, Pat C., no offense taken.

Well said Beasley, well said. Women must hold more power than we think because the fear of women is enormous in this world. I can only think that their fear of their lust places that blame at women, I think most men feel at the mercy of women (most hetrosexual men)and sex and cannot even address their part in that process. Even the scandal in the Church only addressed the molestation of "boys" and there has been plenty of the same for the young girls of a parish.

I don't know who "Zoe" is Pat C but she is whimsical and funny and just can take a person on a magic carpet ride.

It's the age-old fear that we really have teeth in our vaginas. There's a wonderful Native American story about our Coyote/Trickster got women to lose those teeth.

And So,
Adam points his finger at Eve and tells God, "She did it."
Sigh. There will never be an end to disinformation, NEVER. From the Old Testament to the History Channel which is now hosting a show on the biblical "prophecies," and the "Rapture."

Armageddon comes from Megedda: a garbage dump outside the walls of the old city of Jerusalem.

This just in from the NY Times. Seems like they are beginning to wake up:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/07/opinion/07thu3.html?

But is it too late?

Beasley, don't forget Lillith, Adam's first wife. That's the fem who aroused The Fear.

LOL!!!! OMG!! Ha ha ha ha ha!

Armageddon---a garbage dump outside of Jerusalem!

Shylurker,

Excellent find! Of course this isn't one of Bush's "policy" statements but it should be a HUGE wake-up call to our creditor nations about what Bush and his cohorts really think. I'm starting to think that all of this "waking up" metaphor isn't really about the people of the United States. I'm starting to think it's more about the people of planet Earth waking up to the reality of what America's Republican party has in store.

----

wv,

As far as this TV series is concerned, I think it's deplorable that the networks are actually encouraging this end-times nonsense. Why is NBC trying to pour gasoline on the fire? You know, the sad part is that between global-warming and nuclear weapons, we really do have the ability to bring about the end of life on the planet. But like Eric from PlanetWaves says, nuclear war isn't going to be nearly as much fun as some people think.

---

Still waiting to hear from American and Tulane. Also, a friend of mine was just hired as John Kerry's PAC director for the western US. A very good person to know, indeed.

And another thing, the third "shoe" dropped a few days ago. After the "flaming box of shit with the Jewish star" incident, and the "delivery to a murder scene" incident...my car broke down in the middle of a very scary area of downtown Dallas late Sunday night. It was all very traumatic at the time, but I survived, and got my car back from the shop Tuesday afternoon. So they say these incidents come in threes. If that's the case, I'm in the clear!!!

I think men are afraid in that women show them the consequences of the sexual act. How an impulse can translate into something so powerful and horrifying as another human being.They know that dark tunnel is a loaded and dangerous place, yet they are compelled to enter.

Mike Malloy at AirAmerica is really good tonight. ;O)

A little more from our pal, Michael Lutin......

"The patriarchy is definitely waning starting with the year 2000. The Moon becomes paradigm ruler which means women on the rise. This eclipse further defines the demise of the patriarchy."

Get your steeds saddled, girls!

I feel a civil war a-comin'.

Oooooo .. boy.

Strapping one on jm??

To add to jm's info about becoming the father within: In a sanskrit chant there is a metaphor on acheiving self-containment that I interpret as:become the father: provide for yourself, become the mother:nurture yourself, become the brother, protect yourself and become the sister, be your own best friend.
We might not need the Big Daddy if we are a healthy 'Dad' to ourselves.

I saw the commercial for the 'Revelations' TV show. The fast clips and scary music remind me of horror films and I thought it seemed like another Fear Factor. Just keep piling on the fear. I want someone's house after they Rapture off the planet. Hurry up. All Pope All the Time. We went from Mel Gibson to Fellini within a week. So gross.

I think that men are scared that their primal instinct for their purpose of seed sharing will be gone. Why the Crone is so frightening to them. Last vestige of an excuse to be over their women is gone. The Mother energy is a circle of all inclusivness.

Any saint would never see division of male/female, spiritual/worldly, straight/gay etc. POOPpurri indeed, the dude was NO saint.

But in the meantime... the patriarchy...

May it rest in peace.

Yeah.

POOPourri.

What you said, Bhakti?

"I think that men are scared that their primal instinct for their purpose of seed sharing will be gone."

Interesting thought.

So their sex drive would be gone?

jm... what's the URL for the Michael Lutin piece, please. ;O)

Here you go, MaDamme:

http://www.michaellutin.com/

He's funny.

A bit more personal note. I finished my housework and was able to do my laundry today. I would work a bit, then rest a bit, but I am finally done for the weekend. I have been deeply moved by the funeral, both the dignity and solemnnity
of the service and the sense of universality. I also liked the use of Latin (I went to Catholic school, and learned Latin in Freshman High School). It was actually musical in the sounds of the liturgy.

Cardinal Law didn't officiate (Thank God!), but Ratzinger instead. (They probably re-thought it when they realized the kind of commentary it could potentially raise).

Oh..Joanna

Click on "Daily Fix".

Carol, I always have though some of the Catholic church rituals majestic. And they are thoroughbreds in the church world. And I think funerals are often beautiful. You are lucky to be able to enjoy these things.

Carol....I feel as you do. I was a devout Catholic until my late teens, and studied 4 years of Latin. I considered becoming a monastic nun for a long time. I watched the funeral too, and I cried and remembered the beauties of this religion rather than the doctrines (or traditions) which ultimately I could not accept. I feel drained.

There was never any thought of Law celebrating this mass. Ratzinger is the Dean of the College of Cardinals. Law (what an inappropriate name!!) is going to say the third of nine additional masses that will be said over the next 9 days for the pope. And that is bad enough, God knows. It is a matter of protocol because of the church in Rome to which he was assigned. And it is sickening to think of.

I was thinking Ratzinger was doing very well, until they announced his various titles..the one that got me was "Successor To The Inquisition".

I also noticed that their several very religious Rabbis sitting in some front row, and Ratzinger mentioned all the diffeent religions and thanked their chiefs for coming, but not the Rabbis.

I didn't like that one bit, and I dont think they did either. Shades of things to come? because Ratzinger is in the running, far right, wrote gays are evil...that was his influence, not the Popes, and Opus Dei.

Great credentials. If those cardinals dont follow up with another Pope John Paul, Malachi's prediction will likely come true. It's like going from Clinton to Dumbya...only while we sit and suck our thumbs - I dont think the Catholics of the world are going to take it.

At one moment when the hundreds of thousands of people were shouting John Paul, Papa - Ratzinger's eyes opened wide and he certainly looked frightened to me. Anybody else see that?

I'm sure he was frightened they were going to storm up--- he better think about that before he tries to have himself appointed. Besides that he looked tired after two hours of funeral - he doesn''t have the stamina to do the things Joh Paul did like world travel

Apparently it is the Italians habit to applaud the dead for their goodness. Unusual.

We have watched history, and I dont think any of us will ever see anything like it again. No other person in this world will ever draw every world leader and 4 million people to their funeral. The closes thing we have ever witnessed was John Kennedy's funeral, but that was total grief. This was diffeent.

And then for a few moments with all 170 world leaders gathered in one tiny square, I thought if someone were to drop a --that would take care of all the troubles in the world - but then I tought 10 cockroaches would spring up to replace each of them.

What shoud happen is that they should take all 170 put them in one room and let them box it out instead of sending our children to war.

Too bad John Paul couldn't rise up and lecture them all in one place.

You would think they have gotten a tast of people power and it would scare them into being better leaders...in fear that crowds like that could rise up AGAINST them instead of for them. I certainly hope Dimbot is thinking about that when he considers starting a war in Iran.

And that's all I have to say about it.

TEG

NOt being Catholic nor having a full understanding of their ceremeonies, this was what reported:

" NYTimes.com > International

Cardinal Law, Ousted in U.S. Scandal, Is Given a Major Role in Rites By LAURIE GOODSTEIN

Published: April 8, 2005

OME, April 7 - Cardinal Bernard Law, who was forced to resign in disgrace as archbishop of Boston two years ago for protecting sexually abusive priests, was named by the Vatican today as one of nine prelates who will have the honor of presiding over funeral Masses for Pope John Paul II.

To many American Catholics, Cardinal Law is best known as the archbishop who presided over the Boston archdiocese as it became the focus for the sexual abuse scandal involving priests.

But to Vatican officials, Cardinal Law is a powerful kingmaker who traveled internationally for the church and whose favorite priests were regularly appointed bishops by John Paul. After he stepped down in Boston in 2003, he was given a spacious apartment and a prestigious although honorary post in Rome as archpriest of the Basilica of St. Mary Major.

It is by virtue of this position that he was given the high-profile role of celebrating Monday's funeral ritual, the third in the nine-day mourning period that follows a pope's death. It is expected that most of the cardinals will attend the Mass, which will be open to the public. Cardinal Law will deliver a homily that many Vatican watchers will parse for clues about the cardinals' thinking on who should be the next pope.

By permitting Cardinal Law to take the limelight in Rome just when the church is mourning the death of John Paul, the cardinals have reminded American Catholics that their most painful recent chapter barely registered in the Vatican.

"It's yet another example of the gap between how the Vatican sees things and how the U.S. church sees things," said the Rev. Keith F. Pecklers, an American Jesuit who is a professor at the Gregorian, a pontifical university in Rome. "This kind of thing can open the wounds for people just when the healing was beginning."

Cardinal Law resigned after a judge decided to unseal court records that included a letter from the cardinal commending priests even though he knew they had been accused at one time of abusing children. After saying for a year that he would not resign, he finally stepped down and cloistered himself for a while in a monastery until his appointment in Rome.

More than 600 people who say they were victims have come forward in the Boston archdiocese, the fourth-largest in the United States. The church there has paid settlements of more than $90 million, and Cardinal Law's successor, Archbishop Sean P. O'Malley, has had to consolidate parishes and close Catholic schools to cope with the resulting financial problems.

In Boston, Bernie McDaid, one of as many as 50 people who have accused the Rev. Joseph Birmingham of sexual abuse, said he and others among them were "infuriated" to learn Thursday of Cardinal Law's prominence in the papal funeral and transition.

"He never lost power, even though he stepped down from Boston," Mr. McDaid said. "In any other corporation if you lost your rank and left, you'd lose your power and you'd be stripped of your title." But, "here he is in Rome, still as powerful as he was before."

The nine days of mourning begins on Friday, with the requiem Mass, over which the dean of the College of Cardinals, Joseph Ratzinger of Germany, will preside.

As a member of the College of Cardinals who is under age 80, Cardinal Law is eligible to vote in the conclave that will elect the next pope. The conclave is scheduled to begin on April 18.

In Rome, neither Cardinal Law nor Archbishop O'Malley responded to interview requests. Cardinal Law was among the American cardinals who attended a reception this evening with President Bush and his wife, Laura, at the United States Embassy residence. At a news conference on Thursday, Cardinal Edward M. Egan of New York said he believed that Cardinal Law had been chosen to preside at the funeral Mass because of his status as archpriest in the basilica. He declined to say whether he approved.

The list of the nine prelates selected to celebrate funeral Masses for the pope was announced Thursday by Archbishop Piero Marini, master of the Liturgical Celebrations of the Supreme Pontiff.

One senior Vatican official familiar with the workings of the College of Cardinals, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said the cardinals approved the list during their meetings this week.

When asked whether Cardinal Law's role in the American scandal was taken into consideration, the official said, "I don't think so." He said that Cardinal Law was not acting as a former Boston archbishop in celebrating the Mass but in "another capacity - he's one of the senior cardinals."

However, one Vatican expert said that by tradition, the cardinals had no choice but to select Cardinal Law to preside at one of the nine funeral Masses. Dr. John-Peter Pham, author of "Heirs of the Fisherman," a book about papal succession, said it was customary for the archpriest of one of three patriarchal basilicas in Rome, St. Peter's, St. Paul's and St. Mary Major, to celebrate a novemdiales Mass.

Two of the archpriests are already celebrating Masses in different ceremonial roles; having them celebrate two Masses would violate protocol, Dr. Pham said."

Daniel J. Wakin contributed reporting from Rome forthis article, and Katie Zezima from Boston.

______

In addition both Sally and I read or heard the report that between lasat Monday and the day before his alleged death, the Pope appointed beteeen 50 and 90 new prelates. Well whether that means cardinals, bishops or priests, I dont know, but it was reported, and I'm not the only ne that heard it.

Your method of alleged corrections is not , to me, in the sense of informing , but of challenging. And I'm wondering if it 's purposely meant to be unpleasant..or if you dont know that your presentation is accusatory..

Moot point.

About the Patriarchy, it's much less about your gender then an archetype. As a male kindergarten teacher, I have always been a minority, and I have never worked under a male principal. Most elementary schools are woman dominated, which I don't mind as long as I am respected.

But, it is funny that some female principals and teachers are much more "patriarchal" then I ever would be. Of course, I have Jupiter on my midheaven, so you know I'm not a disciplinarian. Since everyone has the same amount of "masculine planets" and "feminine planets" (here I mean sect) in their charts, anyone who hates women (or men) hate those aspects within themselves. We all have the moon and Venus in or charts, as well as Mars and the Sun. So, if the Patriarchy dies, that doesn't mean actual women will benefit, it is the matriarchal "archetype".

But Travieso... If the Patriarchy dies... everyone benefits. It's not the masculine traits or hating any gender... It'd domination and rule by one gender. you're right. The ruling man is an archetype. But there are many variations... gentle king, petty tyrant, etc., etc.
It appears that the one in charge now is not furthering the well being of the group and preservation of life. So it would naturally die.
So hating the Patriarchy is not hating the man.

The ideal would probably be a council of male and female.

Israel honors Egyptian spies 50 years after fiasco

By Reuters

After half a century of reticence and recrimination, Israel on Wednesday honored nine Egyptian Jews recruited as agents-provocateur in what became one of the worst intelligence bungles in the country's history.

Israel was at war with Egypt when it hatched a plan in 1954 to ruin its rapprochement with the United States and Britain by firebombing sites frequented by foreigners in Cairo and Alexandria.

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/559008.html

------------------

Israel Goes Extremist
This time, they've gone too far
by Justin Raimondo

Over the years, as the actions of the Israeli government have become more extreme – and less concerned with international public opinion – very little of what Israel's leaders say or do seems all that surprising. Invading the West Bank and Gaza, demolishing peoples' homes, defying the U.S. on the settlements issue as they angle for more "foreign aid" from the clueless Americans – even running over people with tanks! – it all makes a twisted kind of sense, given the fanatical nationalism that motivates Israel's partisans both here and in Palestine. (A fanaticism, I might add, that flourishes on both sides of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.) Yet, even amid all this emotional and political hysteria, the Israelis have often exhibited an admirable pragmatism: they were willing to make concessions (or not) depending on Israel's national security needs at the time. Sharon's "strategic disengagement" plan – in spite of being compromised by all sorts of hemming, hawing, and hedging – is a good example of this commonsense approach.

How, then, do we explain the Israeli government's recent decision to honor nine of its agents arrested and jailed in the infamous Lavon affair?

To understand how inexplicably sinister this is, a little history lesson is in order. The year was 1952, and a young colonel had just come to power in Egypt proclaiming a doctrine of pan-Arab nationalism. The United States, eager to make inroads – and new friends – in the Middle East, was supportive: the corrupt King Farouk was a dubious character, at best, and the spirit of a new populism that was non-threatening to U.S. interests and secular seemed to be breaking out all over. Yet Israel did indeed feel threatened, and acted at once to sever growing links between the Americans and the government of Gamal Abdel Nasser.

President Dwight D. Eisenhower was pressuring the British to leave Egypt, and David Ben Gurion – founding prime minister of the Jewish state, then temporarily out of office – was determined to change the American outlook on the Middle East by any means necessary, including terrorism. When diplomatic approaches failed, by the summer of 1954 Ben Gurion was ready to move: a network of underground cells was set up in Egypt's major cities that would carry out attacks on American and British targets. The idea was to make it look like the Egyptians did it, and the West would turn against Nasser. It was, in short, a "false flag" operation. Dubbed "Operation Susannah" as a tribute to the wife of one of the spies, the terrorist campaign was to be triggered when the agents heard "Oh, Susannah" played on Israeli radio.

~ snip ~

This is part and parcel of the growing pattern of extremism that seems to be imprinting itself on every aspect of Israeli life, one that has not gone entirely unnoticed in the Western media. PBS ran a fascinating documentary the other day, positing that Israel's next war may be against its own ultra-Zionist fanatics, who are intent on sabotaging the peace process and instituting an authoritarian-militarist state. The powerful and motivated extreme-right wing of the ruling Likud party refuses to give up the original Zionist dream of a "Greater Israel." I have covered the alarming uptick in extremist activity, both in Israel and the U.S., in this space, but the "honoring" of a terrorist gang by the Israeli government frightens the bejesus out of me – especially in view of the Israeli government's recent announcement that they will be carrying out assassinations wherever and whenever they choose, including on American soil.

~ snip ~

An Israel unrepentant about its brutal history of repression against the Palestinians may be reprehensible, but is at least understandable to some extent: but this ceremonial tribute to terrorists whose targets were American and British civilians is downright weird. What are the Israelis thinking? It's as if the government of, say, Lebanon, were to announce that they were honoring the suicide bomber who killed 241 Americans in the 1983 terrorist attack in Beirut on the Marine barracks.

It's funny how many conservatives – and especially the neoconservatives – have their antennae quivering at the least hint of "anti-Americanism" or anti-Western sentiment, and yet so far I've heard not one peep out of anyone on the American Right about this outrageously and viciously anti-American display. Surely this is an oversight that will shortly be corrected – or is it? With their unconditional support for even the most outrageous Israeli demands, their knee-jerk denunciations of even the most mild criticism of Israel as "anti-Semitism," and their open resentment of the Bush administration's pressure on Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon to stop building settlements, perhaps this is one form of anti-Americanism they can get behind.

http://antiwar.com/justin/

Gene Roddenberry's 'Borg' has arrived:

Riverbend reports from Iraq ---

..."Today, Iraqis with a satellite dish are constantly listening to American music and watching American sitcoms and movies. To be fair, it’s not just Iraq that is being targeted by this media offensive -- it’s the entire Middle East. And it’s all being done very cleverly.

Al-Hurra -- the purported "channel of freedom" and the American gift to the Arab world -- airs translated documentaries about certain historical events (American documentaries) or about movie stars (American stars) or vacation spots. Throughout the day, Arab anchors give viewers the latest news. It’s news about the Arab world with the American twist -- like watching Fox News in Arabic."

http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/21691/

Travieso,

Well said, but I still nominate Barbara Boxer to world leader status.

Beware Monster.com

by Dr. Teresa Whitehurst

"We have more than 250 trained and certified speakers who deliver our presentations. They are trained not to talk down to or lecture students; instead, they present the message as if they were a big brother or sister simply giving advice about their experiences and how to achieve success. The presentations are dynamic and engaging, holding the audience's attention through relevant interactive exercises, on-stage volunteer exercises and a detailed workbook…"

- www.MakingItCount.com (emphasis added)

1,200 (77 percent) of the 1,543 U.S. soldiers killed in Iraq [as of 4/5/05] were in their teens and twenties. Of these, 289 (18.7 percent) were high school/early college age (18-21).

- statistics from Iraq Coalition Casualty Count

http://www.antiwar.com/whitehurst/?articleid=5491

Dave, just to be on the safe side, is it possible for you to stay at home for today, and maybe tomorrow? I do have a certain level of comfort with the "rule of threes", but thought taking 'er easy for a couple of days might enhance your chances of being peril-free.

Pallas, I did not read that he appointed Cardinals just before his death, I READ the article that the Vatican released the names of 80 new Cardinals a week before his death but they didn't say when they were appointed.

Here's a brief assessment of the effect the eclipse is having on my chart!
19o aries 4 degrees from my n Sat. 23 aries, & n mercury 16 aries, 11th house......... 3 o from sq. n mars 22 cap, 8th house, seems to be an intensification of the way it has always worked for me!! In a wide T sq to pluto 29o cancer, 2nd. house; With the mutual reception of saturn & mars, there is extreme focus and discipline. And with t neptune 17o aquarius, & 13o t mars aquarius, sq. n sun 13o taurus; I painted until 11 PM, first time on a year! ( used to be regular)
This AM have sent arather martian, saturnian, e-mail to Sen. Chaffee, on the Sen. Foreign Relations Commmittee, urging him NOT to vote for Bolton! There are 8 Dems on the Committee, and 10 Repugs. ( some of the worst kind!) Chaffee is being swayed by Boltons promise of "reform" ( my foot!) Hopefuilly he will vote with the Dems.!
I saw the story on C BS news ( online) this am.
Am going to go pick up my paintbrush again! There's a good blend of "male"/" female" principle at work!
Pat QOP

http://www.davidsirota.com/2005/04/bush-called-fdr-socialist-for-creating.html

Bush Called FDR a "Socialist" For Creating SS

President Bush's professor at Harvard Business School reports in today's Harvard Crimson that Bush "called former president Franklin D. Roosevelt, Class of 1904, a 'socialist' and spoke against Social Security, unemployment insurance, the Securities and Exchange Commission, and other New Deal innovations."

Clearly, this shows just how extreme Bush is. But it isn't a surprise. Bush has been trying to eliminate Social Security for a long time. In 1978, he supported privatization by claiming the system would go bankrupt by 1988 - a complete lie. Now today, the professor notes that "to privatize Social Security, [Bush] is peddling a colossal lie about its solvency." Let's hope the media makes sure people know Bush has a proven track record of saying anything - regardless of truth or fact - to justify his right-wing agenda.

Links within article

"...Let's hope the media makes sure people know Bush has a proven track record of saying anything - regardless of truth or fact - to justify his right-wing agenda."

Pinning your 'hope' on the media? Now there's an exercise in futility! Fortunately the public has a direct line between their brain and their pocket. No way will they buy the abolishment of Social Security, or its dismantlement...

Too true Jo.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7419149/
Home foreclosure listings surged in March

http://www.financialsense.com/editorials/reality/2005/0403.html
The Invisible Hand
(of the U.S. Government)
in Financial Markets

Flashback to Maya del Mar's excellent piece on progressed Mars [which appears in its entirety in the April-May issue of The Mountain Astrologer]. I cut and pasted the piece which she ran in two parts at her site. Here are a few snippets...

Today's eclipse is in opposition to the

..."USA pMars at 19 degrees Libra... where it is stationed, preparing to turn Rx in 2006... Mars is super-powerful for the U.S. right now, in a way that it never has been, and won’t be again for another 80 years—and after that for close to 1000 years... and unstable...

Re-evaluation is beginning... whole process is slow and gradual and we are in the midst of it.

... we are driven deeply into unconscious motivations, which seem unpredictable, and over which we do not have control. Prisoner torture, and the acceptance of it, is an example here.

... retreat of much of the U.S. into its Puritan and evangelical origins, including the denial and ignoring of scientific findings, is one among many examples of moving backwards.

... Space weapons and war are also indicated by progressed Mars’ square to Black Hole Hel at 19 Capricorn. She was the Norse Goddess of Death and the Underworld, and the root word of the English "hell." She became immensely wealthy, with great tracts of land surrounded by high fences and a high, strong gate. Her knife is Hunger, her plate is Starvation, and her threshold is called Pitfall. According to Alex Miller-Mignone (4), she seems to have an affinity with vast energy and mass destruction.

... GW Bush’s Jupiter is at this same degree, 19 Libra. His Jupiter, which includes his sense of entitlement, amplifies and expands the nation’s progressed Mars."

------------

Not Maya's observation, but mine: there exists within the USA natal chart a Grand Cross, if one counts Chiron at 20 Aries... and gives a wide orb to the aspects... today's eclipse will activate that Grand Cross.

I would appreciate any comments on that from some of our more learned astrologers... again, I am just a student, and mostly a messenger! :)

I finally got the time to read this whole thread & it is wonderful! So much info. here, as Sally said, one of the best.

So, the Bildebergers are meeting in Munich May 9-12, right after Tony Blair's so-called election May 5. An interesting week, I am sure.

I just messenger also Jo. Should be interesting.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/spain/article/0,2763,1454802,00.html

Blow to machismo as Spain forces men to do housework

Spanish men will have to learn to change nappies and don washing-up
gloves under the terms of a new law designed to strike a blow at
centuries of Latin machismo.
The law, due to be passed this month, is likely to provoke a revolution
in family affairs in a country where 40% of men reportedly do no
housework at all. It will oblige men to "share domestic responsibilities
and the care and attention" of children and elderly family members,
according to the draft approved by the Spanish parliament's justice
commission.

This will become part of the marriage contract at civil wedding
ceremonies later this year.
"The idea of equality within marriage always stumbles over the problem
of work in the house and caring for dependent people," said Margarita
Uría, of the Basque Nationalist party, who was behind what is an
amendment to a new divorce law.

"This will be a good way of reminding people what their duties are. It
is something feminists have been wanting for a long time."

Failure to meet the obligations will be taken into consideration by
judges when determining the terms of divorces. Men who refuse to do
their part may be given less frequent contact with their children.

Spanish women spend five times longer on housework than their husbands.
Even where both have jobs outside the home, Spanish women still do three
times as much work in the house.

"It is not just about housework, though. Women also end up doing most of
the caring for the elderly," said Ms Uría.

More...

For those of you interested here is one of the best sites for explaining the rituals surrounding the death of the Pope and what will happen next to pick the next Pope and all the rules, etc.

http://chnetwork.org/pope.htm

From ABC News: Seems maybe the last time the Pope named any new Cardinals was in Sept 2003 when he named 31 new ones?

April 1, 2005 — A new pope is elected by the College of Cardinals in Rome, who gather under Michelangelo's famous frescoes in the Sistine Chapel under strict security measures. Only cardinals under the age of 80 can vote, and in recent times the number of voting cardinals has been kept to roughly 120.

In September 2003, however, an ailing Pope John Paul II strengthened his influence over the choice of his successor by naming 31 new cardinals. The latest appointments brought to at least 117 the number of cardinals under 80.

More Fiori....

http://www.sfgate.com/comics/fiore/

Sally,

I've been writing you at the email this site provides, but it keeps getting bounced back to me. Perhaps you might be willing to write me regarding the Arabic Parts info we discussed earlier upthread? My email is ccpup@hotmail.com (named after my dachshund Cinnamon). :-)

Happy Eclipse Day everyone! I'm determined to make this one a good one.

http://blog.nrdcactionfund.org/

A war is raging—right now. The fighting is brutal, the damage horrendous.

But this war isn’t in Iraq. It’s right here at home: The Bush administration is waging an aggressive, yet stealthy, war against America’s wilderness and public lands.

Our national parks, national forests, wildlife refuges, and other public lands total 623 million acres—14 times the size of New England, or almost 6 times the size of California. They are the lands whose scenery inspired the song America the Beautiful. And they also constitute a natural engine that cleans our drinking water, purifies the air we breathe, produces medicines, provides renewable resources, and enhances our quality of life in countless ways. Most important of all, they offer all of us the chance to experience directly, in moments of silence, the wonders of creation.

They are also, thanks to the Bush administration, a battlefield.

Fueled by zealous anti-environmentalism and corporate special interests, the Bush team has pursued a relentless attack on these precious public lands. Instead of honoring the public trust that requires protecting such national assets for our children and grandchildren, they have aggressively pushed exploitation by the mining, timber, oil and gas, and snowmobile industries. And they’ve been terribly clever about it, pursuing this war with stealth and deception.

More...

I would like to comment here on Jo's post taken from Maya del Mars's site and Alex Miller-Mignone's definition of Hel of ancient scandinavia.

Hel has been for several years the subject of my research and deep inquiry. Hel means complete NOT Hell. Redefining this powerful archetypal energy into Hell was the work of the same patriarchal forces you all are discussing here today. The word hel goes back to the very first words of the ancient scandinavian languages. Hel in Swedish still means compltete. Swedish is an aboriginal language as is Finnish. Hel is the root of heal (and this is the sound of it's pronounciation), holy, holly and if you look on a map you will see many cities of her ancient culture with Hel as part of the name, like Helsinki which were all part of the acient circle of Hel. The entitiy Hel was said to have come from Sirius. Hel is remembered in the old Eddas (ancient nordic poems) by the conquering patriarchal Asir. She is described as half dark/ half light. half dead/ half alive. This is more similar to the concept of yin/yang. To say she travelled the underworld misstates the ability to travel as a soul without boundaries. And here i would get into endless pages and bore you all.

Hel travelled with two Ravens on her shouders which you all may remember she gave to Odin as he left the circle and began his slow march down the steppes of Europe with his nomadic tribe. The white raven on her left shoulder was memory -our unfolding past, the black one which rode on her right shoulder was thought -our unfolding future. To be Hel was to be complete, to live in harmony with the complimentary forces. Masculine, feminine were/are not oppositional, rather we are composed of all these, compimentary, whole parts of the complete. The people who lived in the culture of Hel lived in the time outside of time, long before this cycle- about 15,000 years ago. They were the ancient ones the Sami people of Lapland still remember. The stone dances, old stone circles, are the remnants of Hel culture. Some of these exist above the arctic circle -an affirmation of Barbara Hand Clow's premise which was posted upthread of a culture that lived before the poles shifted. Curiously the Native people who i was raised among on the northwest coast have similar myths. I speculate that the de-meaning of Hel was purposeful to usurp the power of union. But we remember and seek it still.

I am not an astroger merely one who delights in patterns of the spirit, but perhaps we should be looking more at Sirius to define Hel which is in cancer and nearly opposite the black hole hel in capricorn the in/out gate? I have been watching the asteroid Hel (949) for a couple of years and have found it is a powerful tranformative agent in my chart.
I am in much appreciation of the wisdom you all share here so generously.
warm thoughts flowing outward,
tseka

"Pallas, I did not read that he appointed Cardinals just before his death, I READ the article that the Vatican released the names of 80 new Cardinals a week before his death but they didn't say when they were appointed.
Posted by: Sally on April 8, 2005 02:04 PM "

Good enough Sally.

At least I know I was not dreaming. Whatever, the list of the 80 new Cardinals is not listed on Google.

I did not read it, but heard the announcement sometime between the time he "erroneously" was first declared dead, and it was rescinded, and the time the Pope actually was announced officially passed.
Since it isn't on google anywhere, I'll try to find a different way to locate it.

Thanks.

tseka, many thanks for your studies and passing them on to us on Astroworld. My ancestors thank you as well.

These two were posted on Salon.

" I'm listening to CBC2 radio (Canada), and just heard this in a report about the Pope's funeral: "U.S. President Bush was there, but he was not well received by all the crowd.... Some ouside St. Peter's Square booed and whistled when Bush's face was showed on TV screens."

......................

Will Old Rulings Play a Role In Terror Cases?

THE WALL STREET JOURNAL April 7, 2005; Page B1

In the annals of law, the case of Masatomo Kikuchi is all but forgotten.

The former Japanese prison guard was tried by the Allies after World War II for war crimes. In 1947, a U.S. military commission, citing the Geneva Conventions and customary international law, convicted him of compelling prisoners of war to practice saluting and other military exercises for as long as 30 minutes when they were tired. His sentence: 12 years of hard labor.

For decades, records of the Kikuchi case and hundreds of other postwar tribunals lay forgotten in archives and government offices around the world. But now they could assume new significance for one of the most contentious aspects of the war on terrorism: the U.S.'s treatment of prisoners.

Hundreds of suspected terrorists and enemy fighters have been captured since the fall of 2001 and housed at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, and elsewhere. The Bush administration has determined these captives aren't protected by the Geneva Conventions. But the administration has faced a wave of legal challenges to that view, and suffered several defeats so far. Today, government lawyers will ask a federal appeals court in Washington to reverse a November ruling that found the Geneva Convention protects prisoners held at Guantanamo and ordered an immediate halt to military commission proceedings against detainees because they didn't comply with the treaty....

... The records make it clear that after World War II, U.S. military prosecutors and judges set out to establish a precedent barring any prisoner mistreatment, by aggressively pursuing and punishing even comparatively small offenses.

"These things of minor importance are the very things which caused the Allied prisoners of the Japanese so great discomfort," prosecutor Robert Neptune told a military commission in October 1948. Army judges agreed. One wrote, "Extreme brutality or serious injury to the victim is not a necessary element" for guilt.

The files are an "extremely valuable and persuasive authority that has not really figured in the debate so far," says Scott Horton, chairman of the international-law committee for the New York City Bar Association. He and other critics have begun to cite them in some of the dozens of legal challenges to the administration working their way through the courts -- though it remains up to the courts themselves whether to invoke them as precedents. ...

... All sides acknowledge that the situation after World War II isn't a precise parallel to today. Many Japanese war criminals clearly were guilty of heinous acts, such as forcing thousands of prisoners of war on death marches, beheading prisoners and presiding over mass starvation. Some of the convicted guards used severe tactics such as beatings and sleep deprivation to make prisoners talk. The charges are far deeper and more wide-ranging than anything the U.S. has been accused of today.

But the archives also make clear that some of the practices employed by the U.S. today resemble those that U.S. military commissions condemned when Americans were on the receiving end. The U.S. considered as war crimes such tactics as solitary confinement, sleep and sensory deprivation, manipulation of meal schedules, forcing men to answer questions while naked or restrained in painful "stress positions," and failing to register prisoners with the International Red Cross. Today, all have been approved or practiced at Guantanamo and other U.S. facilities. ...

tseka,

Welcome! Thanks so much for your beautiful, informative post. Amazing how things get distorted to take on a completely different meaning. Remember when awful actually meant 'full of awe'!

I had my natal chart calculated by computer back in the 80s, when very few of us had a p.c., and Hel showed up on it... conjunct my nUranus... which rules my chart. I have never had any info on this asteroid --- before your wonderful comments. Now, I can input that in my notes.

Thank you so much Tseka... (what a beautiful name!) Namaste

Wow, the Monaco royals are surely being hit hard by this eclipse:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/04/08/umonaco.xml&sSheet=/portal/2005/04/08/ixportaltop.html

Waxman Probes Legality of Bush Social Security Trips
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/040805Y.shtml

Heh!

Jm,

About your reply to my earlier comment, I'm saying the same thing. "Patriarchy" or any masculin principal can be tapped into a woman just as much as a man. Your right, it's about archetypes, not gender.

It's like me being in a dominated female career. At first, some women questioned that a male could do such a job, but they didn't understand that it's not a gender thing, but an "archetype" thing. That's the poweer of astrology in our lives. The planets as archetypes are available to all of us on some level. It's up to us to use them.

And by the way, I Looooove Barbara Boxer.

Jm,

About your reply to my earlier comment, I'm saying the same thing. "Patriarchy" or any masculin principal can be tapped into a woman just as much as a man. Your right, it's about archetypes, not gender.

It's like me being in a dominated female career. At first, some women questioned that a male could do such a job, but they didn't understand that it's not a gender thing, but an "archetype" thing. That's the poweer of astrology in our lives. The planets as archetypes are available to all of us on some level. It's up to us to use them.

And by the way, I Looooove Barbara Boxer.

Tseka, could you please recommend a web site for those of us wishing to know more about Hel? You are so knowledgeable and write so beautifully that I'm hoping you've set up one all your own. Many, many thanks!

Contrast
http://tinyurl.com/5m9n4

RE: patriarchy/matriarchy: I agree with Travieso (haven't read further comments yet, either). I think it's an energetic thing, not a biological physical form thing. And I think the tendency of women currently in power to mimic the ways of the patriarchy indicates that women do not necessarily, by virtue of their gender, make more sensitive leaders.

I'm all for change, don't get me wrong! But I think rather than continuing on some matriarchy/patriarchy pendulum we'd all be better off to find the center (ugh -- that sounds like right-wing Dems!! I don't mean it that way!). Or let me rephrase: find the BALANCE. Honor BOTH the feminine and the masculine, because -- as we know from our own methods of creating new human life -- both are important. Both are dependent upon the other for what each lacks and what the other provides. Simply, both are necessary for life, and I don't mean only physical life.

For example, a psychologically balanced person would exhibit both traits -- appropriately as needed -- in positive ways, wouldn't s/he?

So yeah, what jm said. And Travieso said what I was thinking after reading that one: you're both saying the same thing in different ways.

Bill is up to something, but what?

Meeting with Yuschenko ? making nice with bushistas? included in bushista mornig intel briefing? eiher he's playing intermediary for something or campaigning for Head of United Nations?

What's your take?
____

Walking the streets of Rome Thursday, former President Bill Clinton, there for the funeral of Pope John Paul II, attracted a friendly crowd

A Lovely Day for a Stroll: Bill Clinton in His Element By DAVID E. SANGER April 8, 2005

OME, April 7 - Flying into Rome as a guest passenger on what used to be his airplane, Air Force One, Bill Clinton had this to say about Pope John Paul II, even in death, "The man knows how to build a crowd."

At lunchtime on Thursday, at the foot of the famed Spanish steps about two miles from St. Peter's Basilica, Mr. Clinton proved that he still knows a bit about that art, too.
Clearly unwilling to spend a beautiful day in Rome cooped up in his hotel, he went for a midday stroll, stopping in at a few of the luxury shops on the narrow, cobblestone streets off the square, known for its fountain and familiar to film buffs as the backdrop for a scene in "Roman Holiday."

While Romans were unlikely to catch a glimpse of President Bush - he moved only in motorcades and appeared only at a few official events - Mr. Clinton was clearly reveling in the fact that shoppers, tourists having lunch at outdoor cafes and Italian business people walking to meetings all stopped to greet him.

"Isn't this a great city?" he said. Along the streets, people starting yelling "Bill, Bill, Bill," and a few shouted "U.S.A.!" One shopkeeper raced out with a photograph of Mr. Clinton on a past visit.

Between handshakes and waves, the former president, looking thin, said that he was feeling good after two operations on his heart, but that he tired easily and planned to go back to his hotel for a rest - a change from the way he used to tour cities. He reminisced about his long walking tours of the backstreets of Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh City, formerly Saigon, during the last long foreign trip of his presidency. "You go around the world and you see a lot of affection for Americans," he said.

There was certainly a lot of affection for Mr. Clinton, who consistently got better press here during his presidency than Mr. Bush does. But Mr. Clinton has gone out of his way to demonstrate a new closeness to Mr. Bush, who invited him to come on the official delegation to the pope's funeral and asked him to sit in on the morning intelligence briefing on Wednesday. Mr. Clinton said he thought Mr. Bush seemed more relaxed now that he had won re-election.

Mr. Clinton has appeared greatly relaxed, too, sharing with reporters aboard Air Force One his view of the pope as a politician. The report from journalists on the plane said he recalled John Paul's visit to Newark and how "he came into the back of the cathedral and shook hands all the way down the aisles and had nuns standing on the pews, screaming." He said he told Catholic leaders at the time that he would have hated to run against the pope. "You have no ideas how good a politician he is," he said.

During the war in Bosnia, he said, the pope called him one day to ask what it would take to put forces in to stop the conflict. "He said, 'The 20th century began with a war in Sarajevo, and you can't let it end with a war in Sarajevo,' " Mr. Clinton recalled.

On Thursday, by the time Mr. Clinton made it out of the back streets and into the open square, a mob of hundreds developed. Mr. Clinton's nervous Italian bodyguards put him in a Mercedes and sped him away.

But Thursday night he was back in his old form. After the dinner with the Italian leader, he went out to a second dinner with President Viktor A. Yuschenko of Ukraine and stayed at an Italian restaurant with him until after midnight."

shylurker, i'm sorry to tell you that i know of no one website where you can find very complete information on Hel. What is known lies in fragments.

i have been writing her story but writing is not my comfortable medium (i am an artist) so i much appreciate your kind words.

The two whole that make up Hel: Ellen/Tomas.

Ellen "soft radiance", now a womans name, was first of the great aspirations and meant courage. You can find more about her if you look at the celtic myth of Ellen of the way, and this will also give you insight into Hel. In scandinavia sunlight is soft feminine energy that awakens the earth.

The complement Tomas "empty" is the dark of the cosmos from which all things arise; the grand potential. Instead of dark being evil, I reclaim it in it's rightful form- considered "masculine"- the vast dark matter of the universe that is unknown until touched by light.

These archetypal energies and others are remembered in a jul (wheel) or calendar that associates each energy with a day of the year and is somewhat similar to an astrological wheel. For example: The namnsdag (nameday) of Ellen is 21 September. Ellen, carries the sun underground, protecting it as a woman would her child, through the darkest dark to return at the gate of the winter solstice 20 december then waits, and as the the gate to opens she passes the light to her beloved and perpetual soul's mate Thomas whose namnsdag is 21 December. Thomas remembers the language of the animals.....

I don't know if this is helpful to you but perhaps you will find it interesting to see whether your name is on a namnsdag calendar or what name your day of birth carries. (google swedish nameday calendar) After the christians came many other names were added to conceal the truth and by so doing not lose it.

Thanks to all who welcomed me, warm thoughts,
tseka

RE: "Israel Goes Extremist" posted by Jo:

Some of the fundy "christians" out there, who populate the right wing, are so-called "christian zionists." They really want Israel to succeed in reclaiming all the territory and work to that end. That might explain the attitudes/actions/non-actions written about in the last paragraph or two of the piece.

Before you start thinking these people are actually "friends of Israel," though, note that their reason for supporting Israel is this: they believe reclamation of the land is one step necessary before the second coming of Christ.

(with friends like those...)

Lori,

Again, I am simply a messenger. But I don't understand your comment. I posted the last two paragraphs of the article, along with a couple of others in the article, upthread. I did not see the mention of Fundies there, Anglo Fundies at any rate. I understand the motivation behind the rapture-ready supporters of Israel... but this article has NOTHING to do with that. This article is commenting on the article in Haartz - an Israeli newspaper - wherein it was revealed that
"Israel honors Egyptian spies 50 years after fiasco" [fiasco being the Lavon Affair]...

I cited the Haartz link in the beginning of my comments.

No one who reads about the "Rapture" can come away believing xtian Fundies support Israel... they are USING Israel to bring about their own desires... HOWEVER, Israel has its own agenda and that is one of the things commented on in the article.

Namaste

The enthusiastic welcome given Clinton according to the link upthread at 8:28 pm contrasts somewhat with the response given by Italians when *'s face appeared on the TV monitors --- they responded with boos and whistles, according to a reporter from Der Spiegel... no wonder * did not walk among the people. What a shame. Go all the way to Rome and not be able to 'promenade' ---

http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/0,1518,350388,00.html

Jo, did you see the photo I posted upthread of the two of them?

Pat C.,
With them looking opposite ways? Yes... even with his latest hospital visit, WJC looks better than * ---

If you pull up the link to der Spiegel, you will see * pointing his finger in Chirac's direction!

And Happy,(or at least interesting and fulfilling) eclipse to you, Jonathan, and everyone.

I've never experienced this and I am delighted. The opportunity to eclipse together.

Yes, we do agree Travieso. Women are imitating men excessively, it seems. I saw this so clearly in the battle between Condi and Barbara Boxer in the Senate, Boxer representing the new paradigm, and Condoleezza trying to be one of the big boys, but really using her femininity in an old way. It's interesting that she recently had uterine surgery.

I think its been that way. That women had to be copies of men to succeed, largely. But if there really is a social change now, it will be interesting to watch the character and behavior of the next leading bunch unfold.

There has to be a real fundamental difference because of the hormonal,chemical differene, although I have seen women who are chemically masculine, of course. I think women will do a better job if they remain true to themselves.

I have been looking into the hormone, oxytocin, in particular, which is the bonding chemical, and is released in women upon childbith. Other times as well, but not as much.

Oh my gosh!! Here is another wonderful funeral photo! You know Jo, it would be darn funny if it were pretend, but this is actually happening. :-/

In the photo I posted upthread, I think * looks like a predator. Fitting...

http://tinyurl.com/6mxle

Bush Indifferent Over Falling Poll Numbers

WASHINGTON - The public's dissatisfaction with President Bush and the Republican-led Congress is growing, with ratings dropping amid record high gas prices, war in Iraq, the Social Security debate and the emotional Terri Schiavo case.

The Republican president's job approval is at 44 percent, with 54 percent disapproving. Only 37 percent have a favorable opinion of the work being done by Congress, according to an AP-Ipsos poll.

Bush's job approval was at 49 percent in January, the same month in which he was sworn in for a second term, while Congress' was at 41 percent.

The president was asked Friday about his falling ratings in some polls, and he claimed indifference.

"Some of them were going up the other day," he responded as he flew back from Rome on Air Force One. "You can find them going up and you can find them going down. You can pretty much find out what you want in polls is my point."

More...

For the love of Pete? Can you believe it? 37% approve of Congress.

That to me is a good sign. It is a Republican Congress, after all.

Last night I had a dream.
I normally don't dream a lot--I use the symbols throughout my day to sometimes do intrepetations.
My dream was of a baby and pram in my care (and others). We parked it against a wall by an incline that led to a gradually deepening pool. We became distracted by a commotion behind us. When we turned again, to our horror and dismay, the pram and baby were rolling into to pool--soon completely submerged by the water. We were unable to rescue it because of some type of barrier.
Soon, to our relief, a small group of others (women/angels/others) pulled the baby out and held it aloft for all. It was unharmed and had the most incredible eyes.
My superficial interpretation:
We birthed and nurtured something in the sixties, which through distractions and being pulled off course we thought been drowned and was now dead. However, it is ALIVE and WELL; Not dead at all.

Today is the eclipse(April 8) Despite a minimum of TV, I have been inundated by the pageant going on in Rome.

My symbolic reading:

The masculinity that surrounded it was unmistable
The eclipse signifies a toppling
It is a powerful new moon
The Pope was a symbol of far reaching masculine power
The presense of all the heads of the world (except for China)
I believe this signifies that today we have SYMBOLICALLY BURIED, with all the dignity, ritual (which they like), pomp and ceremony that is its due, the Patriarcy that has dominated the world for the last few milleniums.
In an unconscious way, perhaps they too want it buried.
And so it is!!
Espavo
Trudy

jm: ...a real fundamental difference because of the hormonal,chemical differene, although I have seen women who are chemically masculine, of course. I think women will do a better job if they remain true to themselves...looking into the hormone, oxytocin, in particular, which is the bonding chemical, and is released in women upon childbith. Other times as well, but not as much.

vcz: Endocrinology is a primary passion [and I was thrown out of the endocrinology department for declaring my course of independent study to be re "the deleterious effects of testosterone." Blasphemy!].

MOST unfortunately, oxytocin can be and is released into women's systems for all kinds of reasons. As with everything else, it depends upon the individual. Personally, I am powerless over oxytocin, and seem to need little provocation to produce.

This is the reason I am and e'er have been a HUGE "opponent" of casual sex. Am betting there's not a woman in here who doesn't know what it's like to sleep with some guy she didn't really care for, yet by morning believed she was "falling in love." After the break-up [in actuality, a detoxification], she's wandering around smacking her forehead, muttering, "oh my God. How could I have let him TOUCH me!?" And the girlfriends are all, "we totally tried to tell you you were nuts but you were all, 'you don't see the side of him that I do.'" What the hell were you smoking? Oxytocin!

A veritable FLOOD of oxytocin can be released simply by feeling the touch of a man a woman finds even SLIGHTly attractive, on any level. That's right. You're having coffeee and not really into him and he brushes something off your arm and all of a sudden you want more.

That stuff is Bad News, ladies. Imagine junkies being able to produce internal heroin! It was done so that we'd "bond" to whatever is on the other end of that penis long enough to get pregnant and get a child past infancy. We always wake up. Too late, most of the time.

Have wondered, for decades...well, why didn't God just make men more loveable and easier to get along with so women would stay with them withOUT being drugged??? In other words, why was testosterone created if it was KNOWN a drug like oxytocin would be required to get women to hang around and want to bear their children? That's a major bone I'm picking when I go Home. I WANT ANSWERS, DAMMIT! lolol

ALL young girls should know about oxytocin [and learn to keep levels in check, using biofeedback and other techniques -- and by NEVER ENGAGING IN CASUAL SEX], AND they should know about testosterone [over which males have even less control than we do of oxy] before reaching puberty.

Putting MALES on mandatory oxytocin injections was one of my earliest ideas. Now I'd use patches. Somebody get me a lab and some funding! lololol

vcz,
lol, indeed!

Do the oxytocin levels decrease with age?

And vcz,

If you have time and care to comment, what exactly are the "deleterious effects of testosterone"?

Maybe it was because I was brought up in a matriarchal religion - but I don;t understand all this anger at the patriarchal.

Each of us are what we are, and make of ourselves
hopefully what the planets we came in with say we can. And then again, there are those who don't live up to our potential.

Sure in American society women in the 60's discovered there was a glass ceiling...but many broke through it, and empowered others, and if they couldn't go through the glass ceiling, many went around it and above it by going into their own businesses.

By the age of 22, long before I knew astrology, I was in management of a corporation - I wasn't paid what the vice president of the company was paid, but I did take his place. Since that time, I've started other businesses, some successful and some not, and been a business consultant starting other people's businesses. Now I only do businesses that have a spiritual purpose which will help others as well as myself. That's fulfillling purpose.

Please. I don;t understand this bellyaching. Get out there and do your stuff, whether you're a man or a woman...and if you don;t get where you want to go - don't look outward for blame.

No flames please. We are 10 minutes from the Aries eclipse.

Pallas

Strange...3:42 pm SF Bay area time, and the sky is darkening....but is it from the storm or the eclipse? (we aren't supposed to see it from here, right?)

Jo, hello! My comments about christian zionists pertain to this last paragraph, which I read as the author wondering about the silence on the right re: this new Israeli development re: the terrorists in the 50s.

"It's funny how many conservatives – and especially the neoconservatives – have their antennae quivering at the least hint of "anti-Americanism" or anti-Western sentiment, and yet so far I've heard not one peep out of anyone on the American Right about this outrageously and viciously anti-American display. Surely this is an oversight that will shortly be corrected – or is it? With their unconditional support for even the most outrageous Israeli demands, their knee-jerk denunciations of even the most mild criticism of Israel as "anti-Semitism," and their open resentment of the Bush administration's pressure on Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon to stop building settlements, perhaps this is one form of anti-Americanism they can get behind."

You're right: each group has its own agenda and the article is about Israel's agenda.

Nope. NOthing happening. It got a little dark here (Florida) around 4 something, but I attribute that to the cloudiness and attempting to rain...sun shining brightley now and no evidence of eclipse which was supposed to be seen here 60%

The power just went off here for a few minutes.

http://tinyurl.com/55yb
EPA Cancels Controversial Pesticide Study

and

http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=506836
Hail to the Robber Baron?

If we only had a free press...

http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/05/04/con05129.html
GOP Heading Over Political Cliff

A BUZZFLASH GUEST CONTRIBUTION
by John Conyers, Jr. and his blog readers

The country first recognized the excesses of the Reagan Administration when his budget director proposed classifying ketchup as a vegetable to help justify budget cuts for school lunch programs. The Gingrich Revolution began to unwind in 1995, when Newt complained that part of his intransigence on the budget was the result of being forced to exit the rear of Air Force One upon returning from Yitzhak Rabin's funeral.

More...

....................

Guardsman: Armor for Vehicles Still Inadequate
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/040805B.shtml

Cindy Sheehan | Casey's Story
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/040805C.shtml

Lou Dubose | Broken Hammer?
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/040805D.shtml

Unchecked Lobbyists Thrive in the Shadows
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/040805X.shtml

Bob Herbert | Black, Dead and Invisible
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/040805E.shtml

Students' Clout Helping Workers and Unions
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/040805F.shtml

GOP Leaders May Abandon Bush's Social Security Plan
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/040805J.shtml

Mexico's Presidential Frontrunner Could Be Jailed
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/040805O.shtml

Well. referring to feminine power........and a shift into a new paradigm...................ABC Nightly News had as their person of the Week, the WOMAN who painted Pope John Paul's portrait.
She's 37, born in Russia, has a Renaissance influenced painting style. Her portrait was so well recieved 5 years ago that the Vatican commissioned her to do a second Portrait!
Natalia Koskova.
I tried to get the ABC website, so I could pass it on, but they make you register, and it froze up my computer!!! ( I didn't check all their little material goodies offered?)
Pat QOP

vcz, your post re: casual sex and oxytocin made me laugh out loud AND hit the mark! Great! and thanks for the info.

and Pallas, you make an excellent point. Since grade school, when I wanted to be either Pope or Prez (but not rez), I was very resentful towards males in general and some specific ones, too, and very defensive. Eventually, after LOTS of difficult and painful inner work (1st Saturn return), I realized that in our culture, most men are in a bind just as women are. A different bind, but a bind nonetheless. Most men do not hold positions of power.

Thinking I'd focus on feminine spirituality, I once entered a grad program in Women's Studies. HUGE mistake, not what I was looking for, and in one (undergrad level) class we had one white male, who, even though he had the balls (double entendre TOTALLY intended) and the heart to take the class, when we broke into project groups, no group wanted him because he was both male and white. I was incredulous and appalled.

To me it seems like -- in recent history -- women in search of positions of authority have tended to leave their feminine selves at the door (though not always, and sorry to rehash what's been said above). How about we bring our feminine selves with us from now on? Everywhere we go?

Lysistrata comes to mind, too. Women using their very specifically feminine power to bring an end to war. Oh, yeah!

I can give POWERFUL testimony to vcz's oxytocin info. In fact, no better explanation suffices to characterize my major life events. You can poo-poo it all you want Pallas, and I have done the same whenever anyone uses the chemical imbalance theory to understand mental & emotional cause and effect. I always vehemently denied that as an excuse mechanism [too?] But, it is a very real phenomenon. Thank you, vcz.

Here is the link for the funeral photo.

http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/0,1518,grossbild-457021-350388,00.html

I've got to throw in one of my theories....

I believe man has not adjusted fully yet to being bipedal. When he stood up, his genitals became exposed. This vulnerability is part of man's fear and insecurity in my opinion.

Tseka and all, I just found an asteroid ephemeris:

http://ephemeral.info/oldeph/

Of course, Hel is only three degrees away/near my Cancer sun.

Peg

I didnt poo poo a bloody thing, and I'd appreciate your not putting words into my mouth and posts.

I am simply pointing out that if one is not successful in their goals, the place to look is NOT outward claiming a world full of men is standing in the way. Absolute nonsense.

Women want to be priests?

Go start your own church.

However we are in the Pluto age, so by all means continue tearing down.

Thankyou.

Pallas,

You said: "Maybe it was because I was brought up in a matriarchal religion - but I don;t understand all this anger at the patriarchal."

'scuse me, but which matriarchal religion were you brought up in? Just curious. I thought you were Jewish.

Anger at the patriarchal? Well...........yeeeah. This is not difficult to understand at all. Just reading any part of world history, or checking the pay scale over the last century would enlighten.

My best friends have always been men, but they have all been oddballs.

Woo-hoo, I've found a delightful page (one of the few in English) that gives a nice summary of Hel and Sumi:

http://groups.msn.com/mufd9es9fk2beh4nju3aqn0j61/yourwebpnorsemythologyandasatrage.msnw

Also there's fodder there for those of you engaged in this masculine vs. feminine tussle today.

Pallas, 4:44 pm and it started raining like crazy, and the sun came out...

I lost several jobs because I wouldn't sleep with the boss OR the guys one of my bosses would set me up with...I was single and a single mom (fair game, huh? That is what it felt like)....so I do believe that my looking inward (NOT sleeping with these creeps for any reason) resulted in my outward loss of job. So then I became an independent contractor. (One other element was because of being a single mother with a child who would get sick....I missed too much work, having to chose between my child and a job .) Made more money in the end, until 1990 when it all came to a big ending - my career, not a job.

Luckily now, that previous scenario would be laughable (no one is setting ME up with anyone now, at almost 62)....at the time it was terrifying. It did lead to a different way of working, eventually...but there were NO PEOPLE AVAILABLE WHO WERE TEACHING ME HOW TO START MY OWN BUSINESS, either. No one told me to dry my tears and start my own business and stop complaining....all I had were my own wits and a sense that I could find a way out. I don't know if everyone has that, but it is a blessing....but in the end, I lost that faith after 1990...after all, I hadn't lost my job, I had lost my career AND the whole country in those Bush years was in dire straights. I had to start all over again, and in the process, I lost my home and ended up in Chapter 13 for 10 bloody years. I did 5 years of workshops in business communications at my own expense, and I have come to the conclusion that what ever happens to people is actually a spiritual journey and has nothing to do with much of anything else, including business communications (not that knowning that stuff hurt me, of course).

And I should say that male lust only cost me one of my corporate jobs, not all of them.. The last firing on my 40th birthday, to boot, was because I was so OVER what I was doing that I managed to make myself as undesireable as possible in order TO GET FIRED. At least I learned something by the time I was 40.

Which is why so many people end up not fulfilling their own potential, I think...not enough support. And perhaps that is why women take on male role playing in business...they don't have any other model to draw from. The current push for mentoring programs for people (not just women, either) are an awfully good idea.
-----
The other piece of "do you believe this B***S***? was in the paper this morning. The new U of Cal Berkeley chancellor lamenting that the enrollement of black and hispanic students has dropped precipitously since the passing of the prop 209 in CA which banned affirmative action. The new frosh class in engineering has NO minorities! And here is what the reprehensible Ward Connerly has to say about this:
Former UC regent Ward Connerly, who headed the Prop. 209 campaign, sharply criticized Birgeneau in a recent newspaper column. Noting that the initiative won 55 percent to 45 percent, Connerly wrote, "In the private world, Birgeneau would either be fired or taken behind the woodshed for revealing such disregard for the people who pay the bills."

PEOPLE WHO PAY THE BILLS....f**king unbelievable....now I know why I've always found him so repugnant. Turns out the real deal is that there is no education for all unless your skin is white and your billfold is fat. You can pay the bills.

Ward Connerly is black.

Hey...that asteroid generator is terrific!

http://www.lawandpolitics.blogspot.com/

Cognitive dissonance:

Festinger first developed this theory in the 1950s to explain how members of a cult who were persuaded by their leader, a certain Mrs Keech, that the earth was going to be destroyed on 21st December and that they alone were going to be rescued by aliens, actually increased their commitment to the cult when this did not happen (Festinger himself had infiltrated the cult, and would have been very surprised to meet little green men). The dissonance of the thought of being so stupid was so great that instead they revised their beliefs to meet with obvious facts: that the aliens had, through their concern for the cult, saved the world instead.

hehehehe.....one of the greatly used terms in the workshops in communications which I did was 'cognitive dissonance'....that is a delightful story, abilene...and the concept itself is eye-opening when grasped.!

don't cha love this?
EVIDENCE OF A JUST ORDER IN THE UNIVERSE 
__________
Proverbs 26:27:

Whoso diggeth a pit shall fall therein

A nice find shylurker.

Freyia mentioned in the article was of the Vanir and was married to her twin Frey. They were symbols of fertility and the richness of summer. The Asir thought this was an insestuous relationship but i think this was the equavalent of Gemini. The mirror of our ego. Loki is also of the Vanir; a trickster. i have seen some say he is a parallel to mercury.

The Hel preceded Vanir and was encorporated into that matriarchal culture of scandinavia behind the ice. By the way "behind the ice" =Alt-land-is.

And one last one for your thoughts 12 December (19sag) the new cycle begins the jul wheel with the nameday Alexander...Al (one) lexi (lesson) ander (spirit). A time to set the course for the next lesson. A thing I like to remember when we encouter the black holes of 19 sag!

tseka

Tseka, I am thrilled with your information, I had completely forgotten about Hel, haven't thought of her in a couple of decades. Thank you for bringing her to this board. Somewhere I have a book of Norse Gods and Goddesses, I cannot thank you enough for this treat. I will bet that you are a powerful artist.

Senate Passes Boxer-Snowe Provision to Overturn the Global Gag Rule
http://www.truthout.org/issues_05/040805WB.shtml

India: Corporates Must Help Check Trafficking of Women
http://www.truthout.org/issues_05/040805WC.shtml

teksa, I think Loki is also 'coyote' of the native american stories. One of my favorite characters, also a favorite of CG Jung....Mercury, the quick mind, the messenger....the 1 card in the tarot deck, the magician. Just like the element mercury....try to put your finger on it and it breaks up and speeds in many different directions. very definite archtype.

I have known for many decades that my birthday occurs on the feast day of Mary Magdalene. I always enjoyed that because of Jesus' love for her and the reputation The Church tried to foist upon her for centuries as a "fallen woman" or whatever. I thought she was brave and strong. The namesday I looked up in one of the Swedish sources also had Magdalene, so I guess that's one of the names that was borrowed from the invaders from the south who brought with them what they proclaimed to be Christianity. Fascinating, Tseka!

Greetings to all :).....as usual, wonderful articles and posts and excellent way to keep up with what's going on in the universe since so many post such great links. I've bookmarked a lot of them.

I'll try to keep this as short as possible while including much info in 'little' space. This is an outline of my past years journey - my long dark night of the soul - a book journey. Helloooooo Pluto! I believe it's very relevant to the majority of the topics and postings in this thread.

Book 1: The DaVinci Code by Dan Brown

It excited me to think that perhaps Jesus had married and left a bloodline! I've been a lifelong, non-denominational Christian.

http://www.danbrown.com/novels/davinci_code/reviews.html

Book 2: Bloodline of the Holy Grail - The hidden lineage of Jesus revealed by Laurence Gardner

Retells the biblical story with an understanding of the meanings of the words and phrases of the times. According to this book, those in the lineage of kings must only have sex with their wives in the first 2 weeks of December, so that the possible male heir would be born in the Attonement month of September. They would become espoused in Sept., allowed to have sex the first 2 weeks of Dec., and lived apart most of the year. The marriage would take place as soon as it was ensured that the wife conceived. However, it took a second marriage to really make the marriage (so that the man could legally change his mate if she proved barren!) The second marriage took place when she was 3 months pregnant (to make sure there was no early loss of fetus). At that point it all became legal. Unfortunately Jesus was conceived in September just after the first marriage (Mary and Joseph - you shameless lovers) and therefore when politics became an issue, his legitimacy was challenged. It was all politics and patriarchy as usual. Very fascinating book, much info, mind opening - but definitely destroyed a huge pile of illusions.

http://www.karenlyster.com/gardner.html

Book 3: The Christ Conspiracy - the greatest story ever sold by Acharya S

Well, there went the rest of the illusions, right down the toilet....flush! But again, a fascinating book with lots of astrology. Debunks the whole "myth" of Jesus.

http://www.truthbeknown.com/christ.htm
Keep clicking on READ MORE

These were just three books and one subject. There were quite a few others (seems all I've done for the last year is read). At times it was very painful and frightening (losing my solid foundation) but I must say that now I am beginning to feel the loss of weight in my soul - I feel lighter - and am beginning to see a glimmer of my normal eagerness for life.

I'm not saying anyone should read these or believe them. I'm just offering them up for perusal to anyone who is interested. I apologize for the length and send wishes for great soul happiness to all.

Trickster (by whatever name: Coyote, Loki, etc.) fascinates and is definitely associated with Gemini. I have a gem of a book, "Coyote's Journal," pub 1982, by Wingbow in Berkeley. On p. 47, Robert Aitken has "Excerpts from Coyote Roshi Goroku" (which weaves a Buddhist thread into the whole wonderful Trickster archetype). Here's my favorite: "LIVING BUDDHAS :: Everybody knows how Coyote ROshi loves to collect Buddhist images. Once a disciple of Rajneesh wrote to him, saying, 'You are always looking for wooden Buddhas. You should come to India and meet a living Buddha.' Coyote mentioned this letter to his students, and remarked, 'Living Buddhas are all over the place, but a good wooden Buddha is hard to find.'"

Ja Judi gemini, or Raven if you grew up where I did.

Loki was held responsible for unleashing the choas that tipped the world (earthquakes by some accounts). Hel bound him to the center of the earth.

You can read about him in Kalevala the great shamanic song cycle which was the basis of Tolkein's lord of the Rings.

The Kalevala reminds us where the magic songs live...our source of power, remembering Hel's language of oneness....

"The Cold offered me Lays out there
The Rain sent me often Songs
Other Ballads the Wind brought me
The Waves carried them to the Shore
Birds shaped Words into Tones
Talking sounded from the Crowns fo Trees"

tseka

Pallas: Sure in American society women in the 60's discovered there was a glass ceiling...but many broke through it, and empowered others, and if they couldn't go through the glass ceiling, many went around it and above it by going into their own businesses.

By the age of 22 I was in management of a corporation - I wasn't paid what the vice president of the company was paid, but I did take his place. Since that time, I've started other businesses, some successful and some not, and been a business consultant starting other people's businesses. Now I only do businesses that have a spiritual purpose which will help others as well as myself. That's fulfillling purpose.

Please. I don;t understand this bellyaching. Get out there and do your stuff, whether you're a man or a woman...and if you don;t get where you want to go - don't look outward for blame.

vcz: lolol Pallas, you crack me up [even though I'm getting the feeling you're not known for your sense of humor. What? I'm wrong? Well, then let me begin, again...]

Pallas, you ignorant slut. [double lolol. C'mon, now, let's see a smile. You KNOW that was hilarious.]

First of all, in leaping for your perch you missed that I hold women responsible for controlling their oxytocin levels. But most women don't even KNOW about oxytocin, and thus, 99 times out of a hundred, mistake the hormone rush for "love."

Secondly, I'm talking about scientific fact rather than opinion, and have been studying medicine, in general, and endocrinology, in particular, since forever. Gray's Anatomy was my constant companion by age 5 or 6, and I was in graduate school for endocrinology [not a big field in the late '60s] the month after my 15th birthday.

One of my mantras: Never say these words. "I do not know this, therefore it is not true." One must study to know, know to understand, and understand to judge.

Your comments regarding the Schiavo case made it clear that you know very little about medical science. That is not a slam. We can't know everything about everything. When I mentioned that "the seriously ill will not experience hunger and thirst as we normally do," you responded that Schiavo was not ill, but brain-damaged. That the brain is what processes hunger and thirst [and a host of other things] is basic biology...

In addition, I suggest you tell clitless girls, and the gang over at RAWA [the Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan], women doing life in prison for killing abusive husbands in a legally acknowledged moment of self-defense, women making less money than men for the same work, women who've been set on fire because their husbands saw a bit of ankle in public [good news, btw! It's almost the one year anniversary of the new law that says husbands don't have the right to rape their wives in Virginia. Let's keep our fingers crossed -- maybe this'll catch on!], etc., ad nauseam, that "the patriarchy" isn't their problem -- it's simply that they don't have your gumption!

If I'd been a good girl who worshipped the daddies and kept my opinions [and smarts] to myself...in other words, kept my mouth where it belonged -- in their zippers! I wouldn't have had any problem, whatsoever. But I was born to opine, baby! [And the closest my mouth ever got to their naughty bits would be when they couldn't keep their eyes off my tits. I'd lean over and speak DIRECTLY into their zippers. That cost me a project or two. But it was worth it! lololol]

You sound like Clarence Thomas lecturing black people about how there's no such thing as racism. And I'm wondering what kind of "affirmative action" might've made you a corporate honcho in a male-dominated field in the '60s...

Women letting their lives be derailed by oxytocin is the NORM, not the exception. And I've met VERY few women who can't see its effect on their own lives after taking one of my "hormonal seminars." That young GIRLS are not taught about this is both a tragedy and a travesty.

GIRLFRIENDS DON'T LET GIRLFRIENDS HAVE CASUAL SEX! Email me if you want the bumper sticker. ;-)

VCZ

Actually I have a sense of humor. I think Judi Gemini's "Proverbs 26:27: Whoso diggeth a pit shall fall therein" is funny enough that I laughed out loud.

I dont find anytning funny about your filthy mouth though,your rudeness, your outright aggression, your hate, nor anything funny about your attitude or anything you post, in general, young lady.

I think you mentioned you live in Florida? If you
do, I suggest you curb your mouth and your attitude. There's a new gun law here you know. Jeb has made it viable for anyone who doesn't like the way you look at them or speak to them, to kill such a misanthrope, without repercussion.

I'm sorry to say, that if you speak the way you sound in writing, you're bound to find yourself in harm's way. I'll be glad to send you a bumper-sticker for your dashboard if it would help keep you out of trouble : "Curb Your Mouth"

:)

STOP THIS ARGUING! REALLY!

YOU GO, VCZ! Certainly my conclusions born of experience are with your insights. ;O)

Jo,
Thanks for your post regarding "Operation Suzannah." I have known about it for many, many years, yet I have felt uncomfortable mentioning these events to most of my acquaintences. I do not believe most people, however well read, unless they grow up in places like Lebanon (me) are aware of these facts. Yet here it is in Haaretz.
Today's extraordinary eclipse: my business's bathroom has no water. No water in the pipes. The whole little shopping mall is without water. Pipes must have burst somewhere during the NJ floods. Will have to relieve ourselves in the woods? Thank the stars the weather is a little warmer....just enjoying being a little silly after all this revolting gloom my mind has been throwing up.

Pallas: Actually I have a sense of humor. I think Judi Gemini's "Proverbs 26:27: Whoso diggeth a pit shall fall therein" is funny enough that I laughed out loud.

I dont find anytning funny about your filthy mouth though,your rudeness, your outright aggression, your hate, nor anything funny about your attitude or anything you post, in general, young lady.

I think you mentioned you live in Florida? If you
do, I suggest you curb your mouth and your attitude. There's a new gun law here you know. Jeb has made it viable for anyone who doesn't like the way you look at them or speak to them, to kill such a misanthrope, without repercussion.

I'm sorry to say, that if you speak the way you sound in writing, you're bound to find yourself in harm's way. I'll be glad to send you a bumper-sticker for your dashboard if it would help keep you out of trouble : "Curb Your Mouth"

vcz: Wow. Pallas is really Tom Delay? Actually, the "you'd better watch what you say" is more Rovian. Good thing we know only conservatives think this way. The country would be a MESS if liberals didn't know better!

And this board is going to become a mess if we lose our civility. Let us keep open our options for growth and sharing, and do so with respect for others.

After your last vituperative rant directed at me, I swore I'd swear off this site permanently, but then came back to read the posts of the more rational and kinder among us. Now I see you are equally violent towards anyone who questions your facts or disagrees with your opinions. Where is all this hate and self-righteousness coming from?

Gosh , and I thought we were talking about OXYCONTIN!!!!!

Pallas...did you just threaten vcz? Isn't that going a bit far?

What is going on here? THis is a good example of why Jeb Bush's gun carrying law should get him IMPEACHED....

And geez....I thought everything vcz wrote was not only right on, but pretty damn funny.

Especially the stuff about zippers and tits! It tends to be pretty true across the board.....no matter how much education, worth or intelligence a woman has, it all comes down to zippers and tits. That IS THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS, I THINK. Biology trumps the human brain in that desireable 18-44 age group.

JM

If you had gonads and ever had them wacked or otherwise hurt, you would learn to protect them,
believe me.

That would be a good thing shy.

Sally has provided a wonderful place for everyone to come to and share information.

Last post was addressed to Pallas

Beasley,

I'm sorry the eclipse has been difficult for you. We have had tremendous shifts of energy the past couple of weeks... and yes, thank goodness spring is here.

Namaste

tseka,

thanks again, for bringing more comments re Hel to the board... and your poem was poignant. We are all one... have always been. Sometimes we think we are, and that we're alone... but, from the 'feeling' perspective, we are both...
alone and al/one... namaste

Here's an Eclipse / Oxytocin story to divert your attention....................
Jenna in dirty disco dance!

http://www.nypost.com/gossip/44048.htm
Pat QOP

Ladies, let's take ten and go to our respective corners. Arguments on this site only keep people from enjoying a discourse on politics or the discussion of myths, or learning from one another.

I think we've gone far enough in proving the antagonism created by an Aries Eclipse. So I am appealing to your higher reason and I know we all have a higher consciousness and let's take the opportunity of this dynamic eclipse to work with that higher consciousness.

Pat C....the Boxer resolution was PASSED in the senate? Wow, this eclipse is powerful.....that is great news....of course....almost as if the Aries male energy has been soften and made reasonable! Well, I believe there is powerful energy working right now....and for once, for women instead of war, lying, cheating, stealing and other types of mayhem.

(((Sally)))

Coyote mentioned this letter to his students, and remarked, 'Living Buddhas are all over the place, but a good wooden Buddha is hard to find.'"
shylurker , this is wonderful....

teska, "Ja Judi gemini, or Raven if you grew up where I did." Does Raven rule Gemini? It would seem so appropriate....

Judi, I've noticed they are being backed off of quite a few of their bully tactics, and it pleases me no end. I'm almost willing to become optimistic. I remain however reserved.

Ahhhh spring. It is bad for the Bushviks, and good for humanity.

Sally....sh*t happens, doesn't it? There have been 3 outbreaks now (I was the first....and believe me, it was the combo of Merc retro and my own 8 Aries Mars which switched my normal rational thinking into all out war)...so it is kind of interesting to track this stuff. Everything happens for a reason, and although we are taught that the stars 'impellbut do not compel', I do not believe it. Which is why stuff happens.

The fighters are fighting also for the ones not ready to fight.

Pat C....are you a Capricorn? I had almost the same conversation with my daughter's father....things are actually proceeding WELL for him now, but had been so dreadful over the last few weeks that he said the EXACT SAME THING....(about 1 hour ago)

I just had a wonderful image of all the rightwing gop congress jerks (including but not limited to, the WH jerks, also) as pictures on old newspapers, all crumpled and blowing down barren city streets....fading, fading...dissolving in the rain. While the rest of us keep on truckin'....

This is a site someone just sent me and the site is wonderful. The name of it is OneWorld.net and tells of all the things that are being done around the world to uplift and help and create. This is one of the articles from that site and it will absolutely take you to your laughin place. This is the best of the Aries Eclipse in action.

SOME OF AMERICA'S RICHEST ARE SAYING NO TO THE BUSH TAX CUT.

http://us.oneworld.net/article/view/109045/1/

Y'all know I live in the woods... yesterday I looked out the kitchen window and a raven/crow was on the driveway... just standing there looking about... made me feel eerie --- we have had a family of crows living near the house for some time now... I googled just now and while the raven is a member of the crow family, it is different... more solitary.

My husband is going into the hospital Monday a.m. to have an ICD implanted... last June his heart flipped out of sinus rhythm and had to be shocked on two different occasions before it flipped back... I'm uneasy as tMerc is still Rx, goes direct Tuesday. Tried to get him to postpone but -
and tPluto is conjunct his nSun. Send a little light if you have any to spare. :)

Namaste

JG: And geez....I thought everything vcz wrote was not only right on, but pretty damn funny.

vcz: Thanks, JudiGemini! Maybe Saturday Night Live was too old a reference...

JG: Especially the stuff about zippers and tits! It tends to be pretty true across the board.....no matter how much education, worth or intelligence a woman has, it all comes down to zippers and tits. That IS THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS, I THINK. Biology trumps the human brain in that desireable 18-44 age group.

vcz: That IS the whole point! And the ONLY point of note, as far as I'm concerned. We are here to transcend our biology, not to wallow in it. But if we don't KNOW our biology, we're Doomed.

I kinda-sorta got kicked out of "straight med school," too, when in the very first lecture the prof said, "for the next 8 - 12 years you will be studying males, and abnormal males [or females]."

I started LAUGHing...almost wet myself. GOOD ONE! I mean, that punchline came outta NOwhere! But I was the only one laughing. And the professor didn't think that what he'd said was even reMOTEly amusante. OOPS!

Ever since, my FAVourite thing to talk about in a room full of scientists is "the abnormal x chromosome." The women LOVE me [though, sadly (and understandably. Sort of) they rarely let the males see their enjoyment. They swarm me in the loo]. The men look like their heads are going to exlode...try this at home. It works! lolol

BTW, a few years ago, it was discovered that some portion of the brain [think it was the hypothalmus, but don't quote me] is larger in women and gay males than in straight males. In EVERY article I read, it was described as being "swollen" in women and gay men and, of course, "normal" in straight men. Such as this is SOP, not an aberration, unfortunately.

Thanks to all who considered the science [and giggled at the funnies]!

well, I wanted to say something Sally dang it..... but I know that very strong emotions are running very close to the surface, so I won't....... in deference to you & your work & your wonderful astrology site that we all love. But that doesn't mean I'm not biting my tongue.

Jo...lots of light coming.....

the electrical 'net' around the heart which we all have gets disrupted at times, it is true. Are we talking pacemaker? I just don't recognize the acronym.....they are a great gift to mankind! they also give a person some sense of peace.

Do you do reiki or know someone who does reiki? It might help soothe the hearts electrical net....as for the merc. retro.....this is actually a time to go back and take care of things which needed to be looked at before. And I think for the most part the heavy effects are over (it affected me the week before it went retro even more). Jupiter retro until June 5 means....perhaps you won't know the true results until then?

Jo, I just caught your post which made me cry. Good thoughts your way about your hubby.

Sally...isn't it ironic that the FATHER (William Sr.)of the RICHEST man in the world (or USA anyway) (William Gates Jr.)is the guy who thinks tax cuts for the rich are obscene? I love it....too bad the son isn't as decent....I believe Warren Buffet is also a part of that group...

Jo, blessings and light to your husband. I hope it all works out well for him.

When my mother makes her frequent trips to the hospital for her heart condition, I always check the moon to make sure it isn't in Leo. Mercury Rx doesn't really seem to manifest negatively on this except in getting paperwork lost.

speaking of merc. retro, my daughter's father told me a funny story this evening...

He is a Capricorn diplomat ic type head hunter in NYC personnel agency...one of the women he placed in a NYC church Wellness Clinic, and he heard that the clinic was going to make her position permanent (it was a temp to perm job)....but he waited, waited....nothing - 2 weeks go by...so today he called her and asked if she didn't want the job? And she said, "oh GIL, you know, I can't take this job permanently until next Thursday, when Merc. goes direct! I'll tell you then...."

Jo,
White light to you and your husband.

Oh Yes Jo.((((Jo))))

Sally, what can you do when it's raining transiting planets outside and the children get cranky. ;-)

Folks,
I love all this talk of Hel (pronounced with a long e sound as in heal)! I highly recommend the book “O Mother Sun!” by Patricia Monaghan. [Tseka, have you read the book “The Road to Hel: A Study of the Conception of the Dead in Old Norse Literature” by Hilda R Ellis?] The ancients had beautiful stories to explain life cycles and gave these aspects of living the names of deities.
Anyway, I used Shylurker’s(for the longest time I thought your name was SKYlurker) ephemeris’ and got a different location for asteroid 949 then if I used Astrodienst. So it’s either on my ASC at 16 Aqu or it’s on my Venus at 28 Aries??

The conversations on this thread about the patriarchy are leaving something out. There is change in the “air” all right and fear of change but since no one knows of a balanced, caring, peaceful society to model on they’re freaked about the direction to go. I personally don’t want to switch from a male-centered dominator culture to a female-centered dominator culture. There has been too much bloodshed in the name of the current religions and they are way past their use as a moral guide. I’m hoping for matrifocal theism to take hold within a society of equal peoples.
If any people in the world are headed that way now it is the Europeans. Has anyone read the book "European Dream” by Jeremy Rafkin? He explains how they are willing to work together as a group to help each other. Not this “lone cowboy” approach that many Americans have at all.

Jill G

Peg, I have an Aries Moon and I've been biting my tongue all day so I know how you feel. This is a powerful eclipse and frankly since the only place it could be seen in the US was the tip of Florida, I was surprised not to see something blow up in Florida, maybe it did.

A person by the name of Kristl posted a ways back and she had some really good and informative books, her post was great. I don't remember seeing her before but I wanted to thank her for her post and the first two book suggestions. (Well she gave three but I think probably most have read the DaVinci Code however if you haven't it's great.)

Actually there have been some excellent and informative posts here today, I'm happy, maybe it's because I put my foot in my mouth around 8:30 am, so I was done with projecting my irritation out on others by 8:45 and the day got better.

Jill G....I totally agree...there is nothing good about exhanging one dominator for another, even if the new one looks superficially like us.

We need a cooperative society, and that means a real change in consciousness. I remember about 15 years ago reading an explanation of how the human emotional mind worked....we are like puppets on rubber bands in a room, where we careen into the left wall and think ...that's not RIGHT! and then they careen across the room into the right wall....both collisions hurt, and we never think of stopping some place in the middle. Not only that, we turn the guys bumping into the opposite wall into 'them'....instead of 'oh, that was me at one time'

JG: there is nothing good about exhanging one dominator for another, even if the new one looks superficially like us

vcz: Am convinced that if women and men would learn to control their hormones [naturally! not through use of pharmaceuticals], and, thus, themselves, this world would be a completely different and much more pleasant experience. Most of us let our hormones run the show [because we don't know any better]. Knowledge is power...

JO! Will be keeping you and your husband in my prayers until he's out of those woods and back to yours...

Teg....I love it when people use the word 'vituprative'.....(I can't spell well, hope that is right)....it has a very Scorpio quality...

The nursing home called to tell me that my mother (Aries Moon con Saturn at 19 deg Aries) wiggled her way to within a centimeter of falling on the floor out of her wheel chair - constant problem with her. They grabbed her to pull her back up, but her left arm got caught down in the seat, and tore her skin...apparently she just CURSED everyone out big time, yelling and carrying on. Carleen, the head nurse who called me and who had caused the thing to happen said they call her "NO ANGEL".....she'll be 96 in May.

Well, vcz, for sure there is NO way to control the hormones of people other than with outside help.

Casual sex is rife with problems now...not so much when I was 20, but now. The problem is, it is also rife with problems for married folk, too....pregnancy is a BIG problem....

for instance, insurance doesn't cover female birth control....$30 / mo for pills....not covered...$600 for an IUD, which could easily kill you (I nearly bled to death on an Xmas eve from that) or having a tubal, which requires clinic stay and days to recover and I don't know what it costs now....but male contraception? $50 bucks to get snipped.. ... and Viagra is covered by insurance.

ANd now there is a movement by pharmacists to reject as a conscientious concern filling birth control options for women....their argument, which is specious and lying, is that birthcontrol is killing women!!! more outrageous lies from the right to life movement.

I believe that being educated about your hormonal reactions (that being an outside type of help) would be a great way to get people aware....

So I propose tantric yoga for teens.

Just kidding....can you IMAGINE the outcry?

Studies show that it will take another 1000 years to have women be equal to men in all areas.....maybe THEN they will have tantric yoga classes for teens....

Sally,

Thank you for your kind words. I've posted a couple of times, but am usually a lurker. I have 5 planets in the 12th, 4 of them personal planets, and generally just read and explore. I guess the eclipse drug me into the action. LOL

To all of you out there in AW, and most especially whoever created and maintains this site, I can't begin to express my gratitude for and to all of you. When butthead + beavus were re-elected, I truly reached the bottom of the pit, and I didn't have anywhere to go because I didn't believe in up anymore. I came here. And while weeping with hopelessness, I found just a tiny, tiny smile here one day. Now I laugh out loud again. I'm not at all sure where I would be now without this site. Don't even want to speculate. So, from the bottom of my soul, thank each and every one of you wonderful and wacky, gorgeous people for relighting my candle.

On another note, boy I'm glad I eclipsed on my doctor's office today instead of here! LOL

Judi, no not a Capricorn...a Scorpio. Venus ruler.

kristi, I feel your pain! I'll bet we all do. These have been very scary times indeed. Thank heaven for Sally's Astroworld and all who trek here.

Jo, my friend, be calm and confident. All will be well on your road.

Listen, we're just all over excited.

The Patriarchy was just buried today.

We're on our own.

I,personally, am celebrating.

wv,

My sympathies on that one time with the gonads. Precious cargo should be very well protected.

http://tinyurl.com/4872a
The Crusaders

Christian evangelicals are plotting to remake America in their own image

It's February, and 900 of America's staunchest Christian fundamentalists have gathered in Fort Lauderdale to look back on what they accomplished in last year's election -- and to plan what's next. As they assemble in the vast sanctuary of Coral Ridge Presbyterian, with all fifty state flags dangling from the rafters, three stadium-size video screens flash the name of the conference: reclaiming america for christ. These are the evangelical activists behind the nation's most effective political machine -- one that brought more than 4 million new Christian voters to the polls last November, sending George W. Bush back to the White House and thirty-two new pro-lifers to Congress. But despite their unprecedented power, fundamentalists still see themselves as a persecuted minority, waging a holy war against the godless forces of secularism. To rouse themselves, they kick off the festivities with "Soldiers of the Cross, Arise," the bloodthirstiest tune in all of Christendom: "Seize your armor, gird it on/Now the battle will be won/Soon, your enemies all slain/Crowns of glory you shall gain."

Meet the Dominionists -- biblical literalists who believe God has called them to take over the U.S. government. As the far-right wing of the evangelical movement, Dominionists are pressing an agenda that makes Newt Gingrich's Contract With America look like the Communist Manifesto. They want to rewrite schoolbooks to reflect a Christian version of American history, pack the nation's courts with judges who follow Old Testament law, post the Ten Commandments in every courthouse and make it a felony for gay men to have sex and women to have abortions. In Florida, when the courts ordered Terri Schiavo's feeding tube removed, it was the Dominionists who organized round-the-clock protests and issued a fiery call for Gov. Jeb Bush to defy the law and take Schiavo into state custody. Their ultimate goal is to plant the seeds of a "faith-based" government that will endure far longer than Bush's presidency -- all the way until Jesus comes back.

"Most people hear them talk about a 'Christian nation' and think, 'Well, that sounds like a good, moral thing,' says the Rev. Mel White, who ghostwrote Jerry Falwell's autobiography before breaking with the evangelical movement. "What they don't know -- what even most conservative Christians who voted for Bush don't know -- is that 'Christian nation' means something else entirely to these Dominionist leaders. This movement is no more about following the example of Christ than Bush's Clean Water Act is about clean water."

The godfather of the Dominionists is D. James Kennedy, the most influential evangelical you've never heard of. A former Arthur Murray dance instructor, he launched his Florida ministry in 1959, when most evangelicals still followed Billy Graham's gospel of nonpartisan soul-saving. Kennedy built Coral Ridge Ministries into a $37-million-a-year empire, with a TV-and-radio audience of 3 million, by preaching that it was time to save America -- not soul by soul but election by election. After helping found the Moral Majority in 1979, Kennedy became a five-star general in the Christian army. Bush sought his blessing before running for president -- and continues to consult top Dominionists on matters of federal policy.

More...

As someone with years of knowledge and expertise about huge events I am awed at this one. The resources they had at their disposal, the logistics alone and they did not expect anything like this. They had to bring additional security
from other countries. That isn't free, nor are the port-a-potties, water, nursing assistance, ambulance coverage (and they had more than one) the PR, the name tags on the pews (for the out of towners) the extra blankets for those freezing out doors and the list goes on and on. Toilet Paper alone cost them over a million dollars, that's one figure I am certain and Italy isn't going to write all this off for the Vatican. This funeral easily cost upwards of a billion dollars, and the planners did an incredible job (from an event planner perspective)I was amazed and I give them this, they gave that crowd something for their money, like a Garth Brooks concert. And now it's over, NEXT

Peg: I can give POWERFUL testimony to vcz's oxytocin info. In fact, no better explanation suffices to characterize my major life events.

Quite the eye-opener, isn't it. MOST women say the very same thing after looking at the science. Girls need to begin learning this stuff before puberty...

Peg: You can poo-poo it...I have done the same whenever anyone uses the chemical imbalance theory to understand mental & emotional cause and effect. I always vehemently denied that as an excuse mechanism [too?] But, it is a very real phenomenon.

vcz: I'm in a different camp when it comes to these alleged "chemical imbalances." We're being led to believe that reacting sanely to one's "environment" is a mental illness.

"Your best friend's dead? Your spouse split? The company laid you off and you can't find another job? Your oldest child's in jail and the other one's pregnant? Oh. And the world is going to bloody Hell. And you're dePRESSED??? What's WRONG with you!? Must be a chemical imbalance. Here! Take this. You won't feel anything. You'll be normal!"

I love the ad where the woman says paxil or prozac "lets me finally be me." Uh, honey, if you have to take a pill to get there, it ain't you.

We were all given different "chemical balances," and I, for one, think the Universe had damn good reason. If most people had more control over the kinds of lives they led, their chemicals would balance just fine. I.e., artists and musicians working 60-hour weeks as data entry clerks, and having very little time and/or energy for art and music, don't need a pill. They need a world wherein artists and musicians are valued and they can more easily find work in those fields.

The Powers That Be like and intend to have everyone on pills, and we're falling for the ad campaigns, unfortunately. Soylent Green takes anti-depressants...think obsessive compulsive anal retentives are memorizing books and hiding in the woods? lolol

Oxytocin and testosterone [and estrogen and all the rest] are apples to the above orange, entirely. Although we're seeing more and more females who are [allegedly] able to f*ck 'em and leave 'em, I believe that has a great deal to do with young people's diets and all of the things screwing with their hormones that we didn't have assaulting our bodies 50, 40, 30, even 20 years ago. But it's not all that many of them. Girls are just trying to maintain their oxy habits at an earlier age. They believe and insist that they're "looking for love." They don't know that they're just addicted to the FEELING they got. Happens faster than with crack. They [think they] need it, and they [think they] need it, BAD. And if stealing a television set could get it for them, young girls would be the fastest growing prison population.

If they exPECt this phenomenon, just as they expect to begin getting their periods, they can learn to recognize/deal with being under the influence. Give them "scientific reason" to "save themselves for someone special!" Let them know they could wind up tied for life to someone they'd, when sober, think was grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrOSS!!!

Controlling one's hormones, well. As dubya once said, "It's hard. It's hard work. You have to work hard. And that's hard. It's hard work."

TOTally HARD! If an alcoholic should never take even one drink then a woman should never have even one MOMent of sexual/physical contact with a man she does not REALly know, and LIKE [and respect, and all the rest]. Because almost ALL of us were born to be oxy addicts...and once it's coursing through our systems it feels so damned good we throw everything we know in our heads right out the freakin' window. We tell ourselves we'll pick it up first thing in the morning, but...we usually don't see it again for 6mos. to 2 years...

Enjoy LOTS of rip-roaring, pull-out-all-the-stops, torrid, passionate, jungle monkey sex. Just say no to casual sex. It's amazing how much happier -- and more satisfied -- you'll be in the long run! lolol

Does the oxy decrease as we age? We women begin producing more testosterone as we age! The reason so many women seem to "come into their own" after menopause. Men produce less. The reason they tend to be less violent, aggressive, controlling, etc., as they age. I don't really know if the testosterone simply begins to overpower the oxy, because there isn't enough [reliable] data re females and their hormones [and hormonal changes, increase or decrease.].

We know the most about females and testosterone because, well. Testosterone is worth studying, doncha know! lolol

Okay, I'll shut up, now...

Oh Sally, I'm sure they have a plan.

Oh, Sally.

Sally: Toilet Paper alone cost them over a million dollars, that's one figure I am certain and Italy isn't going to write all this off for the Vatican. This funeral easily cost upwards of a billion dollars

vcz: Too bad the pope wasn't the Messiah. He could've risen to tell everyone to get real and spend that money on something like the sick and the poor "for Christ's sake!"

Too bad most "Christians" don't know much about their professed saviour or they wouldn't need to hear that from a "holy zombie."

Here, the news keeps showing a clip of a sobbing woman from Boca Raton, with kids in tow, who can barely get out the words, "he was the most important person in my life and now he's gone." Don't get me started on my desire to study religion and oxytocin... lololol

I think perhaps today's thread is an indication that testosterone might be overpowering bonding oxytocin in gracefully aging women.

jm: I think perhaps today's thread is an indication that testosterone might be overpowering bonding oxytocin in gracefully aging women.

vcz: Funny. I see much bonding [and can feel the oxy flowing].

'Night, all! Thank you for helping me avoid work for a while [sometimes procrasty is as addictive as oxy]. Sweet and happy eclipsian dreams...

http://tinyurl.com/4jnvz

How Would Jesus Spin?

From mourning the Pope's passing to exploiting it for political advantage in 85 minutes:

Pope Dies: 2:37 p.m. EST, April 2.

4:02 P.M. EST, Bush releases this statement:

"John Paul's witness reminded us of our obligation to build a culture of life in which the strong protect the weak."

The Kind of Inspiration You Choose to Ignore

The president called the Pope "an inspiration" and has tripped all over himself to share the media spotlight with the pontiff's corpse. (Of course, he's not the only one). Bush seems to have forgotten that the Pope had some extremely harsh words for him. In particular: "unjust and illegal" -- the two words the holy father used to describe the administration's invasion of Iraq.

And it wasn't just once: John Paul spoke out against the war more than 50 times.

No matter. Dead men don't object to revisionist history. As he's so ably done with the legacies of Martin Luther King Jr. and FDR, we're sure Bush will continue to find new and better ways to make Pope John Paul -- whom Bush calls "a champion of human freedom," just like his Iraq-invading self -- spin in his grave.

Links within the article

George who?

Wonderful article, site and thread, Sally, thanks so much for this. You're a great gang - all inspired by some great works. I resonate also with this information. Exciting times, eh?

The prenatal eclipses seem to be a great focus now especially in my work. I have mine at 29Libra (11th), conjunct north node and opposing chiron. The social message of how important Astrology is to understanding ourselves and society has never been more important. Interesting to watch it al;l unfold too.

Much Love to you all, I'll be stopping back here, love to hear from you too.
Pisces Peace,
Neil

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