I think there is a law of nature..+ and -....

Every lie has a truth attached to it.

And every lie, I believe is eventually revealed and neutralized by truth.
Of course, the converse is true. It's an endless volley.

Isabelle, loved, loved the "Norma Desmond" analogy, and dear god Neptune has been doing that over and over to us, it's so true and so perfect.

Beasley, I wanted to comment on the last thread your remarks about Jacob Schwartz, I made the same prediction in 1999 about the "next" president and arrived at my conclusions by a reallllllly convoluted method, Jacob went in more of a straight line, but I do think he is accurate. Years ago I read an astrologer (he's dead now) but he said this period of time would see the demise of one of the political parties. It was during a period of time where the Dems were beginning to fracture badly and it sure looked like it would be the Dems who folded, but at the time I thought "no, nothing is quite that simple or clear cut. Viz pointed out that Pluto was beginning to move away from the Dems progressed Sun and starting to aspect the Repugs progressed Sun, and right on que we are beginning to see them fracture. The Schiavo case was a mess for them from beginning to end and Delay is still threating people with a horse head in their bed. It isn't going down well, even Cheney rebuked Delay. Tom Delay is such a powerful figure in Washington and so many are frightened of him but he holds the seeds of bringing down this party. He reacts hysterically when upset and he is about to give his party a strong dose of hysteria when Uranus conjuncts his Venus (10 Pisces) and inconjuncts his Pluto (11 Leo)

The Negus' as a couple were wonderful astrologers and did some great work together. Thanks for the reminder Beasley

I posted these in the last thread, but they belong here. Thank you Isabelle.

http://slate.msn.com/id/2116087/

The Limbaugh Code
The New York Times best seller no one is talking

If a book lands on the best-seller list and nobody hears it, did it really happen? Mark R. Levin's Men in Black: How the Supreme Court Is Destroying America was ranked eighth on the New York Times list this week; it's been on that list for six weeks now, and seems to be leaping off the bookshelves, despite the fact that it concerns constitutional law and the U.S. Supreme Court. Yet it has been reviewed virtually no place and written up by almost no one. True, Charles Lane did a piece about it in the Washington Post a few days ago; he noted that absolutely nobody who writes, talks, or thinks about the high court has even read it. It's selling, it seems, almost entirely due to endorsements by Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and Fox News.

Men in Black was published by Regnery Publishing—the outfit that brought us Unfit for Command: Swift Boat Veterans Speak Out Against John Kerry last summer. Serious journalists spent serious time debunking the claims set forth in the Swift Boat book, but absolutely no one seems to be taking on Levin. This isn't too surprising: For one thing, there's no election on the line. And for another, no serious scholar of the court or the Constitution, on the ideological left or right, is going to waste their time engaging Levin's arguments once they've read this book.

More...

...............

http://atrios.blogspot.com/2005_04_03_atrios_archive.html#111254029435869022

Wingnuttery Everywhere

Whenever I do any sort of public presentation on blogging, one point I try to get across is that I appreciate all the attention being paid to bloggers and their ethics and their accuracy and their influence on journalism, but where have you been? Why has there been so little attention paid to talk radio, Regnery books, Fox News, etc...? All of these things, and other media outlets, have serious problems with accuracy and have certainly had a giant impact on the practice of journalism. Rampant wingnuttery filled with falsehoods surrounds us everywhere, but few dare mention it.

If I were running CNN, once I fired most of the people that worked there and replaced them with decent TV journalists, I'd get rid of their little daily blog show and replace it with the "Fox News Fuckup of the day." They could just steal it from Media Matters. Then I'd add a "crazy shit people are hearing on talk radio which aren't true" segment.

.....................

http://mediamatters.org/archives/search.html?topic=FOX%20News%20Channel

FOX News Channel — Search Results: 487 items

.......................

http://matthewholt.typepad.com/the_health_care_blog/2003/11/policy_oh_canad_1.html

Oh Canada

.......................

http://www.watchingamerica.com/

Jeanie... I, too, thoroughly recommend "What is Enlightenment" magazine. Wonderful break from the depressive thinking of most of the things I... um, must read.

Wonder if this will "gain traction". Will Neptune prevail and it remain hidden? Will Friday's eclipse bring it to the forefront?

A "smoking gun."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7369843/site/newsweek

There's much more here, of course:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1365890

Isabelle,

Thank you for such a fine article... the emphasis on Neptune and its placement in this country's chart is very helpful to my understanding of the 'fog' so many Americans seem to be under.

"Neptune is in the 9th house of religion, law, philosophy, foreigners, travel abroad and higher education. It is not in the first house of how we see ourselves and it is not in the 10th house of how others see us. Neptune is where we as a people are most prone to experience delusional foggy thinking; and conversely, idealistic thinking."

Your dots connect to explain how such an entity as the "Ugly American" can and does exist.

My own thought is that tPluto in Sag is a good thing for America, especially with this nNeptune placement... this powerful energy of death and rebirth is showing us all the ugliness we have failed to see before.

-------------

I wish to make one comment on the last thread. One of the reasons I personally see NO benefit to organized religion is that it creates so much division --- even among so-called 'enlightened' entities. Religion requires WORSHIP... at least, we have changed the word to reflect that. 'Religion' comes from the Latin and actually means to re-join, make whole again... but over time it has come to mean the WORSHIP of some deity... I was reared in this concept but I have discarded it completely. For me, there is no God (or if there is, we are it)... there is only consciousness... and in fact, there is not 'me'...

The Pope has died and now folks are arguing over whether he was a good man or an empty suit.

Doesn't matter to me. What really matters is that The Church (the Catholic, the Baptist, Synagogue what have you) is mighty powerful. Some think that is a good thing... even necessary to maintain 'morality' --- hogwash. Each little slice of this "The Church" defines 'moral' in their own way... Ethics --- a sense of right or wrong --- is just as effective and does not require the WORSHIP of a non-existent entity.

I recognize that some like the concept of WORSHIP and in the manner they choose... and I will fight to the death your right to do exactly that. But I fear that most who practice "religion" would vote to kill me in a skinny minute --- or at the very least, ban me... for the most hated of all entities is an atheist. Wonder why that is?

Talk about Mercury Retro....Prince Charles is
going to the Pope's funeral....wedding to be on
Saturday instead of Friday.....

Sadly Jo, you are correct. Organized religion, as we know it has relied on superstition, opression, and groupthink for control of the masses. Groupthink....always blinding.

Have any of you all seen the movie Dragonslayer? It came out years ago. It is about the last dragon, the last magician, and the beginning of the new age of organizingreligion. It's quite good.

Neptune in the 9th is a natal placement for the US... at least for the chart begun under the european, who invaded the Land. And it's in challenging aspect to mars... that's a natal placement. I will say that "white" america has always been quite psychotic, esp in the "religious" dept... more or less according to transits & progressions. We pink people are not very tightly bundled.

You go, Jo!! ;O)

wv, that's a good thing, I think. They were to be married on the 8th I think, the day of the eclipse. I was wondering what the heck they were thinking picking such a day for their wedding.

Joanna, too true. Sadly the black and brown people are not too tightly bundled either in that department. It's a terrivle human condition.

May I add, Miss Jo, that "the most hated of all entities is an atheist" female! ...as indicated, among other things, by The Burning Times.

I think the brown & black peoples became unbundled when the psychotic pinks swarmed all over them from the far north, eh Pat C? It could now be termed, I 'spose, as "The Human Condition."

I hear ya Joanna! I know what you refer to. I gave it some thought, and traced some of the cultures back a ways in my mind's eye, and realized all of the cultures/races have had their turn with religious tyranny to their people. It is the human condition indeed, and one were surely will outgrow SOON.

Sorry about my typing today...sheesh.

PatC, they will still be considered married under the energy of the eclipse. Solar Eclipses are operational six months before and up to six months to a year after, with the two days before and the two days after considered to be born, married, died etc under an eclipse. Charles first marriage to Diana was under an eclipse (they were married on July 29, 1981 the Eclipse was July 31)

Camilla showed up at the first wedding, wonder if Diana will show up at this one.

Comment
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Pope has blood on his hands
The Pope did great damage to the church, and to countless Catholics

Terry Eagleton
Monday April 4, 2005

Guardian

John Paul II became Pope in 1978, just as the emancipatory 60s were declining into the long political night of Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher. As the economic downturn of the early 70s began to bite, the western world made a decisive shift to the right, and the transformation of an obscure Polish bishop from Karol Wojtyla to John Paul II was part of this wider transition. The Catholic church had lived through its own brand of flower power in the 60s, known as the Second Vatican Council; and the time was now ripe to rein in leftist monks, clap-happy nuns and Latin American Catholic Marxists. All of this had been set in train by a pope - John XIII - whom the Catholic conservatives regarded as at best wacky and at worst a Soviet agent.
What was needed for this task was someone well-trained in the techniques of the cold war. As a prelate from Poland, Wojtyla hailed from what was probably the most reactionary national outpost of the Catholic church, full of maudlin Mary-worship, nationalist fervour and ferocious anti-communism. Years of dealing with the Polish communists had turned him and his fellow Polish bishops into consummate political operators. In fact, it turned the Polish church into a set-up that was, at times, not easy to distinguish from the Stalinist bureaucracy. Both institutions were closed, dogmatic, censorious and hierarchical, awash with myth and personality cults. It was just that, like many alter egos, they also happened to be deadly enemies, locked in lethal combat over the soul of the Polish people.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,5162343-103677,00.html

Sally!! I want to see that!! Ha ha ha! Oh I dearly would like to see that.

So, do you think an eclipse is a good time for a marriage. Just by instinct it seems unfortunate.

Today is the 37th Anniversary of the assassination of Martin Luther King....

Vandals desecrate graves of Rabin and Hertzl

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4407589.stm

Pope John Paul I, born Albino Luciani, (October 17, 1912 – September 28, 1978) was elected pope on August 26, 1978, and died 33 days later on September 28, 1978, after one of the shortest reigns in papal history, resulting in the Year of Three Popes. Having died before he could make a legacy as a pope, he is best remembered for his friendliness and humility, drawing comparisons with "Good Pope John", the universally popular Pope John XXIII.

He was the first pope to choose a double name and did so to honor his two immediate predecessors, Pope John XXIII and Pope Paul VI.

John Paul I's reign lasted 33 days... he did away with all pomp and circumstance of the 'consecration' ceremony --- he made sweeping changes... (sometimes the broom sweeps to clean?) and was planning to reconsider the policy on birth control. Anyway, he was found in bed, sitting upright with papers in his hand, dead, the morning of the 33rd day.

He was followed by Karol Josef Wojtyla, John Paul II, October 16, 1978, 18 days after his death.

It will be a hard night for Blair on May 5 (Election Night) by Frank Luntz

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,1072-1553916,00.html

A really interesting and well-written article, Isabelle. Thanks! I especially appreciated the explanations of the aspects :-)

Sally, I think I did possibly get what you were saying but in my Neptunian way (and it was late at night!) may not have explained it well. I believe you're saying that we create and give meaning to a group, person, event that supercedes the human reality. I agree fully. But I also think that certain humans, ideas, events have a gift to give that is truthful and powerful enough to capture that. They hold within themselves a certain essence that calls out. It can be charisma and attractiveness alone (Hollywood star or model), it can be that + inner spiritual values (Popes, Dali Lama, even Richard Gere), or it can be just some great, phenomenal chemistry and talent (the Beatles). So, that's why I think it's interdependent and works together. We respond to them, then project all of our love, "worship," imagination, needs, but they are projecting something out to the world to begin with. The problem is that we transfer so much to the other, we don't see the reality! Fits right in with Isabelle's theme, too.

Actually I think this happens in every meeting of creation. That's why we all need each other. We cannot function alone, but we do need to find the full truth (the re-ligion, Jo?), rather than the image.

Has anyone here read the Conversations with G-d books? There's so much great wordplay and so much wisdom, but expressed in a way that both entertains at times and thoroughly engages at others. I believe it is G-d expressing her/himself.

Has anyone else that noticed whenever it seems that adverse astrological aspects will finally expose or negatively effect Bush and Co., something major happens to circumvent the impact? In 2004, right before the elections there was the Dan Rather fiasco, Osama Bin Laden's tape and another major terrorist alert. Plus the UN oil for food scandals, North Koreas nuclear threat and the tsunami tradegy at the end of 2004 - all during periods when buschco's major planet were supposed to zap them. Now the Pope's death and funeral will surely again overshadow any negative info comes out during this crucial period in April.

Either the Gods must be crazy, teaching us a major lesson or Bush has major planetary impacts in his chart to protect him from harm. My consolation though - every dog has their day and Tom Delay's and the Republican's have theirs coming. Arrogance always breeds stupity and even someone who is a novice in astrology can see that. As for George Orwell, he was a true visionary ..........

GOP stalwarts wary on Social Security

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2005/04/04/gop_stalwarts_wary_on_social_security?mode=PF

DeLay sticks to tough talk...

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2005/04/04/embattled_on_ethics_delay_sticks_to_tough_talk?mode=PF

As a Hindujew I do not believe there is the ONE messiah. I believe the messiah has not arrived until we all see ourselves as the messiah. I believe Jesus said 'follow me', not 'worship me'. We give our power over to leaders. We do not worship the power of conciousness within. My yoga teacher states : "Meditate on your Self,. Honor and worship your own inner being. God dwells within you as you". Which means there's nothing to bow to but your self. Our society is based on centuries of Patriarchal heirarchy. That is what is crumbling and the Pope symbolizes this. Worshiping others has lead to a collective insanity of power plays, division and a sense of helplessnees and hopelessness.

Sally, glad I brought up an aha moment. I actually wrote and erased the sentance that said all the people's energy together infused the Power of Love to be realized in NYC. Our weeping and heart opennings of joy fuel the power. That spark of emotion of Love is fanned and grows with our expressions of emotion. This is the Mother energy that is smothered by the Patriarchy.

I felt a collective sadness but the Pope carried in his aura a big ego. Sorry, just calling what I see. If his mind was purified he's never divide men and women and hold people from living full lives using birth control. So he was a controller and for that , see ya, bouy bouy, RIP but glad you're gone. Swaha!

bhakti, I feel what you are saying.

I am hoping that the next Pope is progressive, very savvy, surrounded by friends who are also very savvy, and kind. This is my prayer.

Sally, you are right on again...

Governor taking hits in his PR war with Dems
Some in GOP are nervous over strategy
- Carla Marinucci, Chronicle Political Writer
Monday, April 4, 2005

He's on the front lines, backed with money and troops to push his policy agenda across California.

But with just weeks before Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger will have to decide whether to call for a special election, Democrats are jubilant and concerned Republicans are expressing alarm. They say Schwarzenegger is on the defensive and not playing to his charismatic strengths as he fights to win the public relations war.

The governor's declining poll numbers, political observers from both parties say, come as he relies less on straight talk and more on gimmicks to push a crowded and weighty agenda -- budget caps, redistricting of legislative boundaries, overhauling the public employee pension system and adopting teacher merit pay.

Schwarzenegger strode to power in California with a simple message: "I'm here to take back your government.'' The message could be explained in a 20- second television spot and worked with people's anger, says Barbara O'Connor, professor of political communication at California State University, Sacramento.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/04/04/MNG47C2S031.DTL&type=printable

Thoughtful, well expressed article, Isabelle. It is a guarantee that every program they title (such as "no child left behind, personal accounts, clean skys, etc., etc.) represents the exact opposite of what it's named. Such creative word play would be commendable were it not so devastating.

One of my many childhood upheavals revolved around persistently debunking my father's prejudice despite his physical reaction. Interestingly my own Neptune is in the 9th house. And i cannot SEE how it's possible to separate ourselves one from another no matter religion, no matter color, no matter sex or preference, no matter what origin. It literally makes no sense to me.

As Jo so eloquently stated WE ARE "god." It is why we are always in flux, expanding and contracting with acts of creation whatever those acts are. Therefore, to act in a way that enhances life allows the "whole" of us to reach a greater consciousness. Conversely to terrorize, kill or manipulate reduces each of us just as exponentially.

Under the draconian measures exacted by this government, it becomes an ongoing challenge to act in a spiritually conscious way.

How, for instance, would any of us act were our families threatened, our food/water supplies cut off? Will our spirituality or our religions serve us at this point? The future looks like this to me and i'm not prepared even though i do have a stock of seeds.

karen

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Support grows for beefing up U.S. forces
Some see situations where volunteers may not be enough
- Edward Epstein, Chronicle Washington Bureau
Monday, April 4, 2005

Washington -- The war-strained all-volunteer U.S. military has a growing manpower problem and a cross-section of Washington policymakers has proposed a solution -- increase the size of the regular military by 30,000, 40,000 or even 100, 000 or more.

While just about all the proponents maintain they want to achieve the increase by offering recruits bigger financial incentives or through appeals to patriotism, lurking in the background is a possibility that for now remains anathema to all but a few. The military draft, which coughed up its last conscript in 1973, could make a comeback if recruiting doesn't pick up and if America's commitments in Iraq and Afghanistan turn into long-term occupations or if the Bush administration's tough-minded foreign policy means military action in places like Iran or North Korea.

It's important to note that the Bush administration adamantly scorns the idea of a resumed draft. It won't even agree to a permanent increase in the Army's size, which Congress temporarily boosted by 30,000 last year, saying instead that Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld's plan to transform the military into a high-tech, mobile force will meet the nation's needs.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/04/04/MNG47C2S0B1.DTL&type=printable

I was moved when the Pope died, primarily because I feel like "souls" are jumping ship like crazy right now and he has been around for most of my adult life. So many icons have died over the past few years from all walks of life. I grew up a catholic, but did not like this Pope one bit. As a woman I despised his patriarchal message that women are inferior and to be controlled - of course it wasn't stated like that ... but that seems to be the end result whenever men are in control - of course females can't say mass - why! who would think of it! - but they can clean the bathrooms and do all the administrative work - from the background though - that's their place. I hate the hypocrisy of the catholic church, the need to mind and body control, the hatemongering against others, their information control, the pope's position against birth control, condoms (to prevent the spread of AIDS), the lack of real ministering to the poor and needy, and the lack of any real teaching of the esoteric teachings of the church, of spirituality, communion ... and as a result I've gotten completely skeptical about organized religion. Spirituality is another thing entirely. Power corrupts absolutely - be it church, government, industry, countries (look at us - bombs away!). Anyway, that's my rant for the day. Blessings to all!

Neptune's influenece?

TEST YOUR MEMORY
This informal quiz provides a snapshot of memory performance. It is not a scientific or clinical test. A person with normal memory performance should remember four or five words without cueing. More-significant memory problems should be suspected if words are not recalled from the word choice lists.

Repeat the following five words aloud four times. You will have to remember them later.

Carrot, purple, elephant, fork, guitar

Now take a pen or pencil and draw the face of a clock, put in all the numbers, and set the time to read 10 minutes after 11.

Next, draw a picture of a three-dimensional cube.

Next, try to write down all the words that you repeated out loud at the beginning of the test without looking at the original instructions containing the words. Write down as many of the words as you can remember now.

If you write down fewer than five words, use the following cues to jog your memory. Write down the word if the cue helps you to remember.

One of the words was a vegetable

One was a color

One was an animal

One was a kitchen utensil

One was a type of instrument

If you are still having problems, choose the correct word from the following lists.

Which word was on the original list? carrot, zucchini, broccoli

Which word was on the original list? yellow, green, purple

Which word was on the original list? rabbit, egret, elephant

Which word was on the original list? plate, fork, spoon

Which word was on the original list? piano, guitar, flute

Source: Beth Cook, PhD, Posit Science Corp. All rights reserved

E-mail Carolyn Said at csaid@sfchronicle.com.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/04/04/BUGJ9C20VS1.DTL&type=printable

Living will...

http://www.sfgate.com/comics/meyer/

I was raised Catholic. Although I haven't attended Mass in many years, I still feel that with the Pope's death I have lost something. I'm not sure how to explain it.

I really appreciated a few threads back when Pat C. posted that a new thread had been started....is it possible for the person writing the new article to post at the end of the old thread to let people know?

Saturn is working right on schedule. The fact that Saturn is squeezing Arnolds Venus, and will be until the end of June bodes ill for him. As I've said before the * administration and several GOP leaders are loaded with late degree Cardinal Signs, as is Sharon, Blair, and a few countries including the US. Our "leaders" will take the fall for problems within their countries. How it will all play out is going to be chaotic, but
it will play out publicly for the powers that be.

Last night it occured to me that this Conservative Pope came to power just two years before Reagan and the Thatcher conservative reign. Who the church fathers put on that throne this time will tell us how the world is going to go over the next few years. Whether the collective is ready for something a bit more progressive and if so, that bodes ill for the repressive agenda in the world today, including the United States. The new Pope will be one of our omens. Today someone sent me this article from the Guardian, it's well worth the read.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,5162343-103677,00.html

I'm thinking that with the end of Patriarchy we need to give the clergy a makeover. Always makes me feel good!

How's about a fashion runway show of all our top designers giving the clergy a fresh new look? Get rid of those tired old bishops hats and go with something more modern and sleek. Then to be totally progressive the clergy can recycle their old gear to the KKK. They can use an upgrade too. Those old bishop hats would look smashing over hoods. And their robes would now come in white and red with brocaid. Works in my mind.

On one of the last threads VCZ posted a 'truth' line....hopefully, she will do it again...

But I kept hearing Jack Nicholson yelling "YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!"

I am loopy today....all this is good stuff....and especially Isabelle's explanation of Neptune in the USA chart alongside quotes from '1984'.....but I'm having allergies and slipping weirdly in and out of different gestalts. Neptune exactly conj. my south node.....crazy

Amoung other things, Pope Paul I (the one who died after 33 days, before he could start an investigation into the Vatican Bank and their ties to the Mafie)he was also going to do away with the heavy pointed hats, maybe that's what killed him.

With the multitude of predictions from centuries ago by prophets, saints, catholics and non catholics,

http://www.dreamscape.com/morgana/pandora.htm

I agree with Sally. This next Pope had better be
a very very good one or perceived that way, and maybe he can change the course of history, because he is predicted to be the next to the last
Pope, according to St. Malachy, of the Franciscan-
Benedictine Order (are they the same thing? - it says Benedictine).

So if this new pope makes mis-steps, then the last pope, Peter the Roman, follows when the Church is assaulted and destroyed. (Think of all those magnificent Michelangelo ceiling paintings - gone!- )

In the real world, it has been my feeling that this Pope has not been doing a lot of things for the last few years...he is surrounded by Opus Dei
cardinals - Soldano who apparently had a major hand in picking Cardinals and others,and packed this electorate, and the lay spokesman something Novarro are reported to be Opus Dei.

Doesn't sound hopeful for a wiser pope who will send condoms to Africa does it?

So it would seem if some change in direction isn't made by the Church, the predictions well might come true.

Did you know that the Pope John Paul influenced
dimbot about stem cell research? And wanted him to go further and not even allow 50 strains of stem cell research?

It would seem to me that if people are unhappy with their Catholic Church'd edicts, why don;t they just start another Catholic Church?

There's the Greek Orthodox church, the
Russian Orthodox church...why not make the American Liberal Church... :)

Sally,

is that true, was the 33 day pope who died going to investigate the bank??? I thought that was just a story for the movie Godfather 3 ? He was also going to allow birth control I heard. True?

Meanwhile, The eclipse at 19 Aries hit Delays
18 Aries Sun in the 10th house,,,and by transit
he has Saturn opposing Chiron and Mars opposing Pluto. He may implode. It was he who Nancy saw
entering Bethesda Hospital a few weeks ago - turns out he was having trouble breathing..cardio problems, like panic attacks.

Should be interesting.

I have been looking for the effect of the eclipse of 19 Aries on John Paul/Karol Wotyilya (sp) and couldn't find it, until I went to the Arabic parts:

The Pope was born on a Solar Eclipse at 26 Taurus which happens to be his Vertex in Rome conjunct his Sun. Fated.

These degrees are also part of the Pleiades - the Weeping Sisters- which may have added to his conviction that life was for suffering - his life certainly had a lot of suffering. ( I don;t subscribe to the belief that we are here to suffer)

He goes to his final resting place, entombment, on the Solar Eclipse
of April 8 at 19 Aries.

In the Arabic Parts:

His Part of Spirit is 18 Libra 53, which is most interesting that it takes the eclipse.

His Part of Death 18 Libra 59

His Moon/Uranus Midpoint is 19 Aries with ruler Aquarius his 4th house.

(19 Aries falls between his ruler Venus and the North Node in his 6th house)

Pallas,

Where does one find the Arabic Parts you mentioned above in their own chart? I've never really understood those. :-)

Jonathan

Born a Cathiloc, I decided as a young child that the church was not for me. Two thoughts convinced me. 1. I didn't believe in a God who would punish children or send babies to limbo, and, 2. I firmly believed that I would never, ever, end (still do) and so I would never go to hell. So, I left the church. And while I sometimes had to be there physically (because of parents or nuns) I was never there mentally. As for the pope, while I do not celebrate his death, I am relieved his influence is gone, for just as the Guardian article says, I believe he did great harm. He'll be sorting that out now and will have another chance at a go round. May he be more charitable and "God-like" the next time he 's here.

Years ago a friend loaned me a book about the 33day pope. What an eye opener! The book is "In God's Name" by David Yallop, whose prior investigative work resulted in the aquittal of someone in england wrongly in prison for murder. Quite hard to find - word has it that the catholic church, and others, bought up all the copies it could find to stop wide circulation. I highly recommend everyone read this book if they can get their hands on it.

Thanks for the article Isabelle. I too have neptune in the 9th. My girlfriend always says about my thinking and inspiration, when I'm hot I'm hot, when I'm not, I'm really Really not.

M...

born a protestant, I decided at age 15 the church was not for me...

Two thoughts convinced me: it was all hypocritical and that I had been born before (I still do) so I wasn't worried about going to hell. I did not believe children were born sinful. I didn't have to continue to go to church....lucky me. I was raised by parents who had 1) dad...was an agnostic and 2) a mother who grew up in a polarized town between protestant (good) and catholic (bad) ...so I was already prepared to dismiss all catholic thought. Funny...all my friends and my ex were vehemently lapsed catholics and my daughter is married to a lapsed Irish catholic with parents who are decidedly NOT lapsed. Do I see a lesson here? heeheehee....what is Neptune working on me? I have a really wide Mars/Neptune opposition (8 deg)...my take is this...everyone is fine when they can believe what they want to believe....but it gets sticky when you think you are the only one who is RIGHT! more laughter.....

Neptune is definitely working on 'perceptions' vs. 'reality'

Jonathan,

look for one of the free astrology programs online, that has the arabic parts. Do your chart and click on Arabic parts, and it will add them.

Try astro.com first and see if they have it for free.

Oh that's wonderful, Bhakti! The fashion makeover! And Sally, the cause if death... the hat!

With all that talk of poverty, just imagine how many people could be fed with the price of one hat.
And all the earth's resources used to build those monstrous churches. I'd almost like to see Pluto in Capricorn bring down the marble...send it back home.

Forget the next pope. We're doing it again. Already giving up power.

THIS IS OUR CHANCE TO TAKE SOME BACK!

We are on our own for this precious moment. Again, I can't emphasize enough how much I feel Pluto is bringing down icons and trying to get us in touch with our own moral, ethical, and spiritual selves. All the three great religions have failed mankind. Miserably. How dare any man think he is the interpreter of God's will! And then impose a huge strict dogmatic system of behavior around this, all the while taking money he doesn't need out of everyone's pockets.

If we could stop this DADDY CRAP, we might be able to move ahead.

I read somewhere that Pluto through Sagittarius was going to mark the beginning of the return of feminine influence. Not that that is the answer to our problems, but at least it brings in equilibrium.

Unfortunately, I think there is more to the sex ring in the Catholic Church than we know.

I don't even want to know. I just want to forge ahead.

Like my cousin said in the car when we were kids and saw a nun on the street with her huge hat sticking out all over the boulevard:

"Trick or Treat!"

jm, there are more religions than three. Buddhism and Hinduism come to mind immediately.

Pallas 18 et al

Get the book "In God's Name" An Investigation into the Murder of Pope John Paul 1" by David A
Yallop, Bantum Books, June 1984, ISBN 0-553-05073- 7. You may be able to get it through Alibris.

Also look up http://www.guardian.co.4uk/Print/0.3858.4719300.00.html this story has to do with the case.

I know, Shy, I was referring to the dominant ones. The judeo-Christian stranglehold.

It's a huge politcal game of power in these religions, and we should make no excuses. They've ruled long enough and done enough damage. We can't afford to feed them anymore with the dwindling resources of the earth. It's time to get serious about survival. They are insatiable. Let them get hungry and then go seek God again.

wv, the link isn't working for me. Is it old and maybe has been pulled?

This is the correct link. It deals with one of
the cases running in the book 'In God's Name"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,4719300-111093,00.html

Regarding the pope's death media celebration overkill - I keep 'hearing' jesus words when he was telling his disciples to follow him and attend to the needs of the living "let the dead bury the dead."

'Bush camp flies too close to sun'

But seriously, folks, I'm starting to think our president is headed toward his Icarus Moment, the point in his career where he's so convinced of his own invulnerability that he oversteps, crashes and burns.

http://smirkingchimp.com/article.php?sid=20568&mode=&order=0
Pat QOP

Very interesting wv. Had no idea these cases were still 'active.'

Major Religions of the World
Ranked by Number of Adherents

Christianity *

Anglican *

Catholic *

Evangelical *

Jehovah's Witnesses *

Latter-day Saints *

Orthodox *

Pentecostal

Islam *

Hinduism *

Buddhism *

Sikhism *

Judaism *

Islam: 1.3 billion

Hinduism: 900 million

Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 850 million

Buddhism: 360 million

Chinese traditional religion: 225 million

primal-indigenous: 150 million

African Traditional & Diasporic: 95 million

Sikhism: 23 million

Juche: 19 million

Spiritism: 14 million

Judaism: 14 million

Baha'i: 6 million

Jainism: 4 million

Shinto: 4 million

Cao Dai: 3 million

Tenrikyo: 2.4 million

Neo-Paganism: 1 million

Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand

Rastafarianism: 700 thousand

Scientology: 600 thousand

Zoroastrianism: 150 thousand

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Baha'i
Buddhism
Christianity
Confucianism
Hinduism
Islam
Jainism
Judaism
Shinto
Sikhism
Taoism
Zoroastrianism

In modern Western thought, the first writers to divide the world into "world religions" were Christians. Originally, three religions were recognized: Christians, Jews and pagans (i.e., everybody else).

Confucianism,

Taoism,

Jainism,

Shinto and

Zoroastrianism.

Sikhs
Baha'i
Zoroastrianism
Sikhism
Islam
Jainism
Judaism
Taoism
Shinto
Christianity
Buddhism
Hinduism

Buddhists Geluk order

Tibetan Buddhism,

Japanese Amida-Buddha worship.

From a sociological and historical perspective, most religions have arisen from within existing religious frameworks: Christianity from Judaism, Buddhism from Hinduism, Babi & Baha'i faiths from Islam, etc. Sikhism from Hindu

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mandeans:

PL Kyodan:

Ch'ondogyo:

Vodoun:

New Age: New Age is an incredibly eclectic category, not a single religion.

Seicho-No-Ie:

PL Kyodan

Tenrikyo

Falun Dafa/Falun Gong: This is a relatively new movement (started in the mid-1980s) from China which purports to have 100 million adherents worldwide, 70 million in China.

Falun Dafa

Taoism:

Confucianism: .

Roma: There are an estimated 9 to 12 million Roma (Gypsies; also "Rroma") in the world, concentrated in Europe, but also in North America, Australia and elsewhere.

Pallas, you didn't list the total no. of Christians. I'd like to compare that figure to the no. of Muslims.

Yo Pallas! and Pat Q...

The eclipse at 19 on his frikkin' Midheaven.... it looks like the bully child tyrant king has been eclipsed by a dead Pope. He immediately ran in to steal the thunder, but it looks like it's over.

I wonder if something will happen parentwise with him to put him completely at a loss?

Sharon,

the site was from 2001 and there are probably more religions and members...

google. maybe you can find a more up to date..
it certainly didn't list all the religions in the world, and it said it didn't...I think there are hundreds.

_____

Speaking of Anglican Church, if Prince Charles delayed it for a day , you'd think he would have the sense or someone would tell him to delay it for a week. He's still on merc retro.

____

JM

my previous article "Golddigger" is about the eclipse on dimbot's MC. You might find information there

Sharon,

I remember now, during this funeral they have mentoned many times there are 1 billion 70 million Xians in the world.

Yup. Pallas. That's what I was referring to .... Your article.

The surgical sword of Aries strikes again.

Here is a review of 'In God's Name'...

http://www.puritans.net/bookreviewingodsname.htm

there is symbolism in all the trappings of the church as well as the sacred architecture. it may well be the only remains of the truth.
i've never been interrested in organized religion but as a topic, it facinates me...this whole process, all the costumes, the rites....who made this up??
there are crazy people locked away for far less!

Thanks all for this opportunity to blow. I will calm down soon.

I am loaded with fire placements in my chart and I love bold gesture and big action. I would like to gather together an army of the righteous and bring down this hypocritical theocratic hierarchy forever.

But isn't that presumptuous of me to say who is righteous?

Jonathan,
Do you have a copy of volumn II of "The Only Way To Learn Astrology" by March and McEvers? Chapter 17 is about Arabian Parts and on pages 220-221 is a list of 46 of them. The first one listed is the part of assassination: Mars + Neptune - Uranus. The last one listed is Web(huh?): ASC + Neptune - Sun. Looks like you could fill up a chart with them!

rubaiat,

It goes all the way back...cave art, Greek drama, dancing, singing, moaning, crying, Town Square theater....

The human need for self expression, for theatical catharsis, for group ritual, for a sense of significance in an overwhelming universe.
An attempt to contact that entity we sense, but can never capture.

The need to make something extraordinary out of a tiny, ordinary existence.

I don't know you guys, trying to fight human nature (the peacock gene is responsible for males wanting to dress up like peacocks) seems like a horrendous responsibility

....and all those enormous churches were hatched during the dark ages when people needed a symbol of hope, not to mention 100-300 years of steady work for stone masons.....

Or even the fight or flight gene response which is there to protect us, as is the ego, and then it gets out of control and starts hanging people because their skin is different, thinking that this is a good thing....and then these egos are suprised when people of good nature say YUCK....bad!

In humans, the EGO will go to any length to protect itself, nay unto death (Scorpios will know this one)....so what is the answer to balancing the gene, and of course, it is about looking inwardly rather than outwardly to worldly possessions.

The whole problem is, how do you get people to REMEMBER this stuff?

Why...institutionalize all behavior, of course! Leading to real problems again, of course....

And write it down and hope all the books don't get burned (think the library of Alexandria), setting civilization back a few thou years...

The angels surely must be weeping.

Well here we are.

Americans along Arizona, and New Mexico and the
border states are picketing along the border, with signs telling off dimbot...because he doesn't close or protect the borders. And they have called the media which is showing it, especially on Dobbs - some are yelling rhey're angry they voted for him - on camera.

heh heh.

"i've never been interrested in organized religion but as a topic, it facinates me...this whole process, all the costumes, the rites....who made this up??"

Stagecraft, the wizard-of-oz 'pay no attention to that man behind the curtain' effect. It's been practiced by the politically crafty to manipulate the psyche of the human masses in every corner of the globe since time immemorial.
This pope having been trained as an actor fits right in - something he had in common with Pres Ronnie. Lets face it, all successful politicians and priests must have the gift of putting on a performance that makes their character believable to their audience, or, talented or not, they will not remain in power.

Rubaiat,

" it may well be the only remains of the truth."

well said.

When you study some of the architecture with gremlins and winged lions and other assorted things - some very ugly - I always wonder whose memory they came from.

They are clues to things that went before I think too....an archaeology in a way...our only clues.

Alice Bailey/Theosophy....there is not one messiah....but ascended masters who materialize bearing a particular 'ray' or vibration. Jesus was the pink ray of love.

Therefoer, with this current ray of love which is bathing us, whether we perceive it or not, could be looked at as the return of Jesus.

The trouble with the fundies of all religions and stripes and cloth is that they think it is about the material body rather than the spirit inhabiting the body.

I think Sally has really identified it in the last thread...

And isn't Neptune the highest expression of LOVE? not of the body, but of the spirit....

i have always associated neptune with female energy, just as the sacred female was taken out of everything else i think she was taken out of representing neptune, and now neptune has been misunderstood as a result. to make the world a place for ALL people would surely cause confusion at this point!
there are many phallic buildings in america, at least the churches have a decidedly female influence.

Judi

There's one problem with the Theosophy expectation that Jesus is the love Ray.

Interesting how this is an example of how things
were "transformed".

Jesus is quoted as saying, "Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man's enemies will be members of his household."

Essentially he is saying he did not come to bring peace, but he came to bring war.

Doesn't sound like the love ray, but rather a fairy tale that began to be built 150 or more centuries ago.

Probably for good reason. Who would join a group that said it was intent on war? Oh yes. Neocons and Republicans. Of course. :)

Ah....and WHY did Jesus want to set family members against themselves?

And it looks as if Christianity has done was he said.

To be a Christian you must accept that Jesus was the son of God.

I find that difficult to believe. Therefore, I am not a Christian.

So I can't give you chapter and verse.

I would have been one of the Gnostics!

But forgiveness IS on the pink ray of love....

I don't think they done real well with that one, either. It is interesting....tribal cultures are often quite rigid, just so that people can survive. Forgiveness for sins would probably set father against son, etc....

I am not a scholar of the bible....

Although I have to admit, any people who could go thru Exodus has got to have the world's greatest sense of humor.

The Open Voting Consortium (OVC), a non-partisan group with Republican, Democratic, Green Party and Libertarian Party support, has today become the first Election Software Developer to publicly endorse Velvet Revolution's "Divestiture for Democracy" campaign!

In an open letter sent today to VR by OVC President, Alan Dechert, the group announced their intentions of adopting the standards set forth in VR's February 21st letter to America's Voting Machine companies, calling on them to do the right thing for their country by -- amongst other things -- voluntarily opening hardware and software for inspection and certification to ensure transparency in our electoral system.

http://xtramsn.co.nz/business/0,,5007-4257490,00.html
US publishers gear up for onslaught of pope books.
Ahhhh, the lure of opportunistic mammon.

jm...any url with that voting post?

Is the GOP coming apart?

The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments:
Shortcut to: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/03/weekinreview/03nago.html?pagewanted=print&position=

From Crystalinks.com

On Wednesday April 13, 2005 - at 9 pm EDT - NBC will premiere the limited 8-series - one-hour episodes of 'Revelations' about the end of time. "More than 2,000 years ago the first bible looked far ahead to the world at the end of time - a world of wars such as not occurred since the beginning of creation. This is the world forechosen as the end of days."

Set just before the start of Armageddon, the series will follow two central characters, a physicist and a nun, who are racing against the clock to see if the end of the world apocalypse can be averted. Bill Pullman stars as astrophysicist Dr. Richard Massey, a Harvard professor whose daughter is murdered by satanists. Natascha McElhone stars as a nun, Sister Josepha Montifiore, who recruits Massey to help investigate whether what's told in the Book of Revelations is starting to come true. They partner in a last-ditch effort to forestall the End of Days.

This looks like another story about the battle of good and evil. The end has to create balance.

Bill Pullman also played the role of the President of the US in the 1996 film I mention in my messages below from Z ... "Independence Day." Is Z bringing us a message about the end of time?

NBC is moving consciousness forward with the successful TV series 'Medium" and a merge with the Sci-Fi Channel which on occasion airs programs of greater vision - especially messages brought by Stargate SG1. In a recent SG1 episode Threads the energies of light [Oma] and those of darkness [Anubis] go off in eternal battle.

If you look with 'greater vision' - you too will see how the plot of our script is coming to fruition as souls awaken and return to higher consciousness at the end of time. It's a good thing!

Here you go, Judi,

http://www.bradblog.com/

1st one... National Election Reform Conference

No, wait! 2nd one....Election software developer

Another opposition down?
Gore, who lost the 2000 election in a bitter contest with current President Bush, seemed to have put politics behind him, insisting the channel would not be a liberal pulpit.

"We have no intention of being a Democratic channel, a liberal channel, or a TV version of Air America; that's not what we're all about," he said, referring to the liberal radio network.
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

more......
http://money.cnn.com/2005/04/04/news/newsmakers/gore_tv.reut/index.htm?cnn=yes

Sorry I just can't get into this Pope thing! my ancesters left him behind 3 1/2 centuries ago at risk to their lives..................guess they schooled subsequent geneerations well!
Pat QOP

thanks JM....
Pat QOP...glad to see you back...you are Poped out too? we all probably are....but it is fascinating how the funeral IS on an eclipse, and Chuck and Camilla didn't consult an astrologer and a Pope was murdered....

Can't make this stuff up!

As for me, I am trying to get used to using an electric stove again:
Last night I boiled some water and I was waiting (while it was boiling) at the computer and astroworld and then smelled a dreadful smell....went out and looked at the kettle, and the water had boiled away so fast and the resulting heat melted the plastic knob on the top of the kettle.....and it was SLIDING down the kettle towards the burner! House smelled awful (and toxic)....

I do not believe Al Gore wants to remain in politics...he is a teacher by nature, and fascinated with technology. What he does politically may not be seen by any of us...I've believed that since he walked out on the Blair House lawn and conceded to the criminal now in the other house. (subverting an election IS a federal crime, is it not?)

Isabelle - A wonderful article with a very clear picture of how Neptune operates in the US chart. The eclipse falling on the US 4th house Chiron would seem to put a focus on our wounded sense of security. Is the lesson that we must become the security and the nurturing for others (and our own vulnerable people) before we find our own security? Certainly the eclipse will put a focus on this issue one way or another.

Hi Judi G,
Yes I'm Poped out & pooped out having had the flue for almost 2 weeks!
I have been processed through the Senior Community retraining program, and will begin to put in 20 hours a week at the local library assisting my friend Morna, the librarian. She's pleased to have me, to check in / out books, and monitor the kids in the computer room afterschool; while she catalogues books into our new computer system. ( Which the "Friends of the Library" have been bungling!) The program pays my salery, not the town budget.........and spealking of BIG BAD! April 8 E day, technically the Town has the right to sell my house at sheriff sale, for back taxes. Thank Godess I live in a small town, still back in the 50's mentally.....This solution was the idea of our Town Manager/Police Chief, A Republican from the old school & a very fair and balanced man!
My son's job started off well and then they had a slowdown due to lack of fish! He is working for the Beachcliff/ Bumblee Tuna, Co. cleaning up after the cutting canning crew! So this young man who lived ( well ) among the materialists in Cherry Hill NJ is now reporting to work in a baseball cap, and knee high rubber boots! With his Libra sun, he has become one of the guys, no easy task for people "from away", in downeast Maine!
He's hoping to advance to "stern man" on a lobster boat, as they make very good money!
Astrologically..........the eclipse falls between my nSaturn, and n mercury in Aries ( 11th house) sq. my n pluto cancer & n mars cap. ( which conjuncts n lillith). Then there's the little matter of t neptune, (9th house) exactly sq my n sun in Taurus (12th house) I've set aside my big stick & am trying to speak VERY SOFTLY!
Pat QOP

Forgive me but I am fasciated by two people blindly and determinedly heading into a storm. April 9th was the day the staff and officers of the Titanic boarded the ship. Is this wedding really going to happen?

on the GOP coming apart theme - this thread from DU is interesting
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x117397

PBS Frontline

Israel's Next War?
Tuesday, April 5, at 9pm, 60 minutes

They do not believe in peace talks. They do not want to share the land. They are well armed and are carrying out increasingly violent attacks, even targeting innocent civilians. They are members of Israel's militant far right, and they are threatening to become Israel's next big problem.

In "Israel's Next War?" airing Tuesday, April 5, at 9 P.M. on PBS (check local listings), FRONTLINE goes deep inside the world of militant Jewish radicals who pose a grave new threat to Israeli security and, potentially, to the region. "The dream of these extremists"—to blow up the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, one of the most important holy sites in the Muslim world—"should give us sleepless nights," says former Israeli Security Chief Avi Dichter. "Jewish terror is liable to create a serious strategic threat that will turn the Israeli-Palestinian conflict into a conflict between thirteen million Jews and a billion Muslims all over the world."

more at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/press/2311.html

The extraordinary nature of the event is manifested in the determination of Mr Blair and Dr Williams to be there: the archbishop will be the first primate of the Church of England ever to attend a papal funeral; the late Lord Callaghan did not attend the funerals of John Paul II's two immediate predecessors when he was prime minister. Prince Charles's press secretary, Paddy Harverson, said that Mr Blair's decision to go to Rome had no bearing on the postponement of the wedding. "That's absolutely not the case. The decision was made by the prince and Mrs Parker Bowles and by them alone," he said. "There was no communication between No 10 Downing Street before or after."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/monarchy/story/0,2763,1452386,00.html

------------

Blair's wife Cherie is Catholic... the two had an audience with John Paul II prior to the runup to the invasion of Iraq... Pope called the invasion immoral and illegal... So now Phony Tony is going to the funeral? Why? How dare he? What's in it for him? This close to election in UK, trying to favor Catholic vote? How crass is that! And to get Prince Charles to postpone his wedding in order to do so! How crass is that!? BOYZ!!!!!!!

Isabelle, thank you so much for the excellent article. I need a better grasp of Neptune in my own chart and this helped me understand because it is clear how it works in the USA chart.

Jo, you can join my religion, we don't want to kill anybody, ever. It's called Bottyism, our song is "Shake Your Booty," and our high priest is the Mac Daddy. Services are in 'after hours' clubs in major metropolitan areas (or where ever enough 'believers' gahter) between 1AM and 5AM Sunday morning (we do respect some religions). We had a Middle Eastern branch, launched by Frank Zappa, called Sheik Yerbouti (of the famous album by the grand master, now an ascended soulman). Our doctrine can be summed up in one phrase, "Party Hardy."

What a smart threat this is! So much good stuff. Wish we had a chart for Peter Fitzgerald, the Plame Special Counsel. He is the timing element for the * demise. If and when he starts, "management has spoken."

***********************PEACE OUT***********************

Those assassinations in the '60s are very painful for me (and many thers). Please go here, read this, and send all the healing vibes you can to the universe. Thank you.
http://rigorousintuition.blogspot.com/2005/04/early-morning-april-4.html

Patrick "Bulldog" Fitzgeralg was born in Brookly in 1961. But look as I have I cannot find month and day, or time.

My God!
I went to the website re: MLK's assignation;; next layer down found this about Pope John Paul I's death

http://rigorousintuition.blogspot.com/2005/02/my-god-they-killed-him.html
When will it end?
Pat QOP

Hey shulurker, I just read the blog. It's sad indeed and not at all surprising. I refuse to let these low-lifes dictate my actions or mood. They can go screw themselves. They will soon be awakened and find out that the structures and priviledges of leadership are crumbling and they have no more protection. jm made a good point about no more 'big daddy's' anymore.

Get your soul sister out and go do something in the city by the bay that would make us proud! Take Guido with you, while you are at it. He's at the Rescue Mission in the Tenderloin and awaiting some cash for ... well, you know, refreshments.

Hi Everyone-

I posted this on the other thread, but it may be relevant here.
------------------------
Pallas, et al.-

Hey folks.... Usually I'm a lurker here on this page- it's been one of my favorites for many years. Sally, you continue to do an outstanding job of helping to keep hope alive in this overgorged, oil-soaked, blood-spattered dinosaur of a superpower (but not for much longer I suspect). Keep up the good work Sally!!

As an aside, I have done some digging into Malachy's list of popes. If memory serves me correctly, JP II's latin phrase was "De Labore Solis"- translated (most likely) as "the work of the Sun". Add to that the fact that his phrase COULD relate to the eclipse of the Sun (for those of us who know, JP II was born during an eclipse), and you start to get the idea. As a matter of fact, the next phrase from Malachy regarding the next Pope is "De Gloria Olivae" (the glory of the olive tree). Which is quite interesting, to say the least.

Think on this for a moment. What would be represented by an olive tree? Could it be someone with a Jewish background???

Something to consider....

Find the cardinal who used to be Jewish, and you have the man who will be the next Pope (or maybe Anti-Pope..)

I know this may sound far fetched, but I would not type this if it were not the truth...

Peace,
Subudei

Hey all, brilliant posts as usual, keep it going.
As I always say, this is the smartest site on the internet, and even though it gets heated here sometimes, we work through it instead of
suppressing it.

I just had to chime in about what Bobbypins said upthread,(reminded me of an earlier story about *'s very fortunate Jupiter placement)how something always happens to take the focus off of *'s multiple gaffes/problems. But is it a coincidence? With the SCUM(so called liberal media) in their backpockets? They just turn up the background noise(this time the Pope's death) until it's the only thing on the "news".

I personally can't take another statesman/holy man death this year--if I experience one more week
of round-the-clock-televised death coverage, I think I'm going to puke!(Unless of course, it's a bloodthirsty neocon,in which case I'll be straining to keep from doing my impersonation of the bully Nelson from the Simpsons and his trademark "HAH hah!")

Sorry folks, didn't mean to drag down the level of discourse here, but I couldn't resist. Let's just keep hammering away with my favorite among the oldest concepts, that of TRUTH!!!!

Namaste all, and a special shout out to my online girlfriend, Old Granny. Hope you're doing well, OG(and Bhakti and Sally, Y'ALL ARE OFF THE HOOK--fashion shows and that pope hat indeed!.)

PS: Great article Isabelle. And thanks all-I read here everyday even though I don't always post here.

Hi Subudei :-) What a beautiful name you have. Does it have a meaning? Just maybe olive tree = olive branch = peace. Just maybe the next Pope will that much more be a person of peace.

The French Cardinal, Lustiger, was Jewish and converted but is he too old at 78?

http://www.detnews.com/2005/religion/0501/25/religion-66892.htm

Origin: The olive is native to the Mediterranean region, tropical and central Asia and various parts of Africa. The olive has a history almost as long as that of Western civilization, its development being one of civilized man's first accomplishments. At a site in Spain, carbon-dating has shown olive seed found there to be eight thousand years old. O. europaea may have been cultivated independently in two places, Crete and Syria. Archeological evidence suggest that olives were being grown in Crete as long ago as 2,500 B.C. From Crete and Syria olives spread to Greece, Rome and other parts of the Mediterranean area.

Although the Benedictines said the next Pope is going to be of their order, the last Benedictine
Cardinal died in 1995.

It could be the French Jewish Cardinal if the olive represents that, but he's ot of the Benedictine order.

Then there is the fact that in the last few months, as a matter of fact in the last week, more than 50 new posts/Cardinals have been named, so there could be a Benedictine among them...and then there are two secret Cardinals.

(How did Pope John Paul ll do that on his death bed??)

Well something is going on. The eclipse of April 8 at 19 Aries on the USA chart

We have Uranus square Uranus in the Gemini rising USA chart.

It has the Part of Fatality at 9 Virgo opp Uranus (making a T Square to the MC and Asc.

The Part of treachery at 16 Leo is opp Neptune

the Part of Life at 24 Gemini is opp PLUTO

The Part of Death at 19 Aries (dimbot's MC) in the USA chart is conjunct the Moon.
***

Wait, it gets better or worse, depending on your viewpoint.

Dimbot's chart has

Part of Life at 14 Leo opp Mars conj Vertex

Part of the Father conjunct Saturn

Part of Death opp the MC

Part of Danger opp Pluto

Part of Water Journeys (over water) conj Saturn

It's all over many of the most important political blogs, Daily Kos, Ameriblog, etc.:

Sen. Cronyn of Tex. is now issuing statements essentially justifying, if not encouraging violence against judges! Of course not one word is being reported on this in the Washington Post or N.Y. Times.

Peace does sound lovely, Sharon. Most welcome it would be.

** "De Labore Solis"- translated (most likely) as "the work of the Sun". Add to that the fact that his phrase COULD relate to the eclipse of the Sun (for those of us who know, JP II was born during an eclipse)**

Could it be perhaps related to something in the sky as the half moon and sun eclipse popes were? Is there any relation to glorious olives in the sky. Greece also is well known for its olives, but any Mediterranean country could apply as pointed out.

American Torturing Jobs Increasingly Outsourced

WASHINGTON, DC—AFL-CIO vice president Linda Chavez-Thompson, representing the American Federation of Interrogation Torturers, released a statement Monday deriding the CIA's "extraordinary rendition" program, under which American torturing jobs are outsourced to foreign markets.

"Outsourcing the task of interrogating terror suspects to countries like Egypt, Syria, and Saudi Arabia is having a crippling effect on the Americans who make a living by stripping detainees nude, shackling them to the floor, and beating the living shit out of them," Chavez-Thompson said.

"And specialists within the field—corrosive-material chemists, ocular surgeons, and testicular electricians—are lucky to find any jobs at all. How are they supposed to feed their families?" Atty General Alberto Gonzales defended extraordinary rendition, saying the program will create jobs in the long run by fostering a global climate of torture tolerance.

http://theonion.com/nib/index.php?issue=4113&nib=1

Thanks M for the history on olives! Asia, Wow.

Pallas, have you done a chart for Yellowstone for the eclipse?

Pat QOP

Having read your linked article to the funny stuff in the Vatican bank - it begins to make sense.

And why Pope JP 2 would allow the crooked banker to stay until 1989.

When JP came in, Reagan came in, and who came in with Reagan? Pappy. And Pappy with the White Roses
and the recently discredited intel organization .

The Pope is credited with bringing freedom to Poland and the cause of the Iron Curtain coming down..

Not quite as simple that he helped Lech Waleska by advising him.

Through the CIA he also shipped arms and money to
Poland. A little thing that slipped out through tv stories today. Now if you were using the Vatican Bank and banker to help free your native country with the help of the CIA - that certainly is a blackmailable offense for a clergyman of the highest station to be involved in. And a good reason not to defrock the Vatican banker who helped you do it - as a matter of fact you'd have to protect him.

"a brief history of the Sandanistas is in order. From the late 1970's to 1990, a revolutionary armed political group ran Nicaragua called the FSLN, or the Sandanistas. President Reagan (and Pappy ) decided that a revolutionary government making many advances for the good of the impoverished common people was a bad example for Latin America. So, a counter military group was organized by the United States to challenge the regime, this group was called the contras, "contra" being the Spanish word for "against."

You remember Nicaragua, where Negroponte was the Ambassador who never saw a deathsquad?

Now if you owed Pappy, Reagan and the CIA for helping to free your beloved Poland - you now understand why Pope would forbid his priests
to be involved in leftist politics , revolutions of the poor and their attempted overthrows of Latin American countries...cause you'd be going against the people you owed.

But of course, the Papacy has always been involved in secrets and "dealings.

Borgia anyone?

(It's too bad-nothing is pure)

CC

no I haven't done a chart for Yellowstone.

You give me or any of us the birthdate the geyser was born and we can do a chart. :)

Astrologers, any thoughts on Gore's newly announced TV venture set to kick off August 1st?

Google is a wonderful thing.
With a little help from a friend and google

there were several Pope Benedicts -

they were all Italian.

It's some Italian from an olive tree farm..or who has an olive tree on his coat of arms.

If it;s that Soldano or one who is involved in Opus Dei, it'll probably hurry the downfall of the Church...

I think they've been maneuvering to get their people in power as the Pope was failing.

This should be interesting

Bet.

Yes, it's true that Pope John Paul I serving 33 days had stated the day before he died that he intended to investigate allegations of fraud and money laundering at the Vatican Bank and allegations of the Mafia having infiltrated the Vatican walls, and then next day he was dead, heart attack I think, so they said, they couldn't understand it, he was so robust.

I watched them carry the Pope's body to the Basilica and all the finery adoring the Cardinals the solid gold everywhere. I thought how much like the Pharoaohs and Kings we've been burying for centuries, giving the impression that we can "take it with us." Such a different burial for the Lord they say they serve. It makes me wonder if the most beautiful of angels, Satan, who was given dominion over all the earth didn't actually rule the church. The Catholic church has managed to hang on to all their gold, all their "stuff" for nearly 2000 years, when the Myans, Aztecs, other cultures lost theirs, or had them stolen. The riches the church gained through the Crusades have kept them in Medieval times and this funeral is straight out of the Medici's control over the church.

Pope John Paul II began his kingly and conservative "reign" on Oct. 16, 1978, Margaret Thatcher followed in May, 1979 and Reagan Jan. 1981. Reagan is gone, the Pope is gone and I hear that Maggie Thatcher is not doing so well. It might be an omen that we are passing on the conservative agenda in the world. I shall be looking carefully at the newly elected Pope, whether he is a conservative or progressive.

Someone above said the Pope was born on an Eclipse and he was, in fact the exact day of an eclipse, the day he was elected Pope, the Moon was in Full aspect to the Sun, and the Sun was conjunct his natal Mars at 22 Libra. When he died the progressed NN (from the Oct. 16, 1978 election) was conjunct that Sun and his natal Mars. Something new for him and perhaps for the Papacy.

I'll tell you though, the people who were around this Pope were creepy and I know for an absolute fact that he has not had the capability to run this church for over 12 years and the "people" around him were despised by the rank and file. They are out of power now with him gone and we will have to see who takes his place. The last 80 Cardinals appointed (on his death bed with a flat EKG and flat EEG) were thought to be conservative.

Doh! Sorry, Pallas! I wasn't thinking, just reacting on a spur of the moment impression. Would a city near by work for a chart? There are a few to choose from.

http://www.nps.gov/yell/planvisit/orientation/transpto.htm

During the last 4,500 yrs of patriarchy, the main stream has always been totalitarianism & mostly acute suppression, with a jolt of "progressivism" from time to time. We are always enduring a Sisyphus' boulder. We never get beyond that neurotic clump of crap. There's no "pendulum" that swings back & forth to give each equal time... that's one of the great illusions in the stupid blank void that passes for "man's mind" imo. And the monsters of patriarchy are like shark's teeth... for every one that falls out, another one or two pops in to take its place. Bah. Humbug. Meanwhile, the Planet cannot take any more abuse... nor should it.

I can't help it. I get this strong feeling that this marks the end of the whole paradigm we've been in since Reagan.

I'm sure this conservative power will end with the transit of Pluto through Capricorn. Then on to Aquarius when there will be Pluto(wealth) a more egalitarian distribution of wealth.

I believe our experiences now are serving to expand our awareness, mobilize us, and create the necessary conditions for this transition.

We here are fortunate to have insight and foresight. With this comes responsibility.

As far as the abuse of the planet... I couldn't agree more.

If you couple the Pluto through the earth sign Capricorn with the 20 year Jupiter/Saturn cycle which started in Taurus, It looks like we will be confronting our relationship with the earth.

Have to add this before the birds start chirping:

>Given Tom DeLay’s stunning public threat yesterday against judges and the promise that “The time will come for those men responsible for this to answer for their behavior” (Shiavo’s death), we have two Senators (D-NJ and D-MA) on record with a quick slapdown. Still waiting for the other 42 Senators to step up.

Lautenberg’s letter is here, in which he makes a clear point:

You should be aware that your comments yesterday may violate a Federal criminal statute, 18 U.S.C. §115 (a)(1)(B). That law states:
“Whoever threatens to assault…. or murder, a United States judge… with intent to retaliate against such… judge…. on account of the performance of official duties, shall be punished [by up to six years in prison]”
Threats against specific Federal judges are not only a serious crime, but also beneath a Member of Congress. In my view, the true measure of democracy is how it dispenses justice. Your attempt to intimidate judges in America not only threatens our courts, but our fundamental democracy as well.<

This was The Independent this morning:

"President Bush met the Pope three times during his presidency, and on the last occasion the president was famously scolded for his attachment to aggression as a means of solving problems. The Pope was a formidable opponent of the war in Iraq.

Nonetheless, President Bush said yesterday that he was looking forward to attending Pope John Paul II's funeral."

--------

Also reported a "small delegation" accompanying the rez --- I wonder if he will bring his usual 700 member entourage and several F-16's etc.? Will they ring the casket to protect the shrub?

And what will Phony Tony do in the presence of both Clinton and *? Enquiring minds want to know!

The sad thing about Al Gore's new cable neteork
is that it was remove from the air one of the best
news outlets around - NWI - Newsworld International and arm of the Canadian Broadcasting
Corporation. Good news coverage, excellent documentaries. It will be sorely missed.

Ooos my spelling etc. is horrible in the last
post. I meant that it would remove one of the
best news outlets....etc.

Oophs, that was me at 1:14 pm above

Pallas. . ."It's some Italian from an olive tree farm..or who has an olive tree on his coat of arms." That was exactly what i visioned this morning.

karen

Carlyle Drains Billions from Disappointed Stock Market Investors
By Nicolas Cori
Libération

Friday 01 April 2005

The American investment fund raises ten billion dollars, an absolute record.
Will we have to stop complaining about the pension funds' dictatorship and fulminate over that of investment funds? If the former, which manage the money of future American retirees, are already well established in the financial world, the power of investment funds keeps expanding. If we are not careful, they'll end up buying the whole CAC 40 [Paris Stock Exchange industrial stock index].... This week, the American Carlyle, the largest global actor, announced it had raised ten billion dollars. That broke the preceding record of 6.5 billion, obtained by Blackstone in 2002. And equivalent fund-raising is expected by competitors. Such activity has never before been seen in the private equity markets, money invested outside of the stock exchanges.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/040405I.shtml

Wake Up!
By Chalmers Johnson
In These Times

Thursday 31 March 2005

Washington's alarming foreign policy.

..."In 2004, the United States imported a record $617.7 billion more than it exported, a 24.4 percent increase over 2003. The annual deficit with China was $162 billion, the largest trade imbalance ever recorded by the United States with a single country. Equally important, as of March 9, 2005, the public debt of the United States was just over $7.7 trillion and climbing, making us easily the world's largest net debtor nation. Refusing to pay for its profligate consumption patterns and military expenditures through taxes on its own citizens, the United States is financing these outlays by going into debt to Japan, China, Taiwan, South Korea, Hong Kong and India. This situation has become increasingly unstable, as the United States requires capital imports of at least $2 billion per day to pay for its governmental expenditures. Any decision by Asian central banks to move significant parts of their foreign exchange reserves out of the dollar and into the euro or other currencies in order to protect themselves from dollar depreciation will likely produce a meltdown of the American economy. On February 21, 2005, the Korean central bank, which has some $200 billion in reserves, quietly announced that it intended to "diversify the currencies in which it invests." The dollar fell sharply and the US stock market (although subsequently recovering) recorded its largest one-day fall in almost two years. This small incident is evidence of the knife-edge on which we are poised."

There's much more! http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/040205F.shtml

Pallas18, I don't know if you can use this date but Yellowstone Nat'l Park was established when Pres. Grant signed a bill establishing the national park system on March 1, 1872. This is according to Yellowstone's web site.

Sally et al

I read somewhere that the lay spokesman for Pope JP2 something Navarro something had become the third most powerful person in the Vatican and he was together with an Italian Cardinal in charge of
deciding on new Cardinals - they were both connected to Opus Dei, and had been garnering allies among the cardinals these last couple of years.

We don;t know the date and time that the Electors are supposed to convene - (is it 15 days after the 9 day mourning? or is it 15 days after the Pope's demise? which would make it the 17th?)

But unless Uranus is very very active, we are going to end up with an Opus Dei ultra conservative Pope.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/040505Z.shtml

Senator Links Violence to 'Political' Decisions

Unaccountable' judiciary raises ire.

    Sen. John Cornyn said yesterday that recent examples of courthouse violence may be linked to public anger over judges who make politically charged decisions without being held accountable.

    In a Senate floor speech in which he sharply criticized a recent Supreme Court ruling on the death penalty, Cornyn (R-Tex.) -- a former Texas Supreme Court justice and member of the Judiciary Committee -- said Americans are growing increasingly frustrated by what he describes as activist jurists.

    "It causes a lot of people, including me, great distress to see judges use the authority that they have been given to make raw political or ideological decisions," he said. Sometimes, he said, "the Supreme Court has taken on this role as a policymaker rather than an enforcer of political decisions made by elected representatives of the people."

    Cornyn continued: "I don't know if there is a cause-and-effect connection, but we have seen some recent episodes of courthouse violence in this country. . . . And I wonder whether there may be some connection between the perception in some quarters, on some occasions, where judges are making political decisions yet are unaccountable to the public, that it builds up and builds up and builds up to the point where some people engage in, engage in violence. Certainly without any justification, but a concern that I have."

    Cornyn, who spoke in a nearly empty chamber, did not specify cases of violence against judges. Two fatal episodes made headlines this year, although authorities said the motives appeared to be personal, not political. In Chicago, a man fatally shot the husband and mother of a federal judge who had ruled against him in a medical malpractice suit. And in Atlanta last month, a man broke away from a deputy and fatally shot four people, including the judge presiding over his rape trial.

More...

In other words, a religio-fascist. That'd be about right. ;O)

Theresa,

Ask Sally on that one.

I dont understand if March 1 1872 is for all parks in the country or for Yellowstone only.

My thought is you can't have a birthdate for the geyser that you are afraid is going to blow..unless you know the date it was formed or began in the cooling of the earth 2 billion years ago??

Also the only way I could think to do it is using astro-com astrocartography looking at eclipses, New Moon, Full Moon, Syzygy, etc.....looking for event at that long/lat - a needle in a haystack so to speak.

Sally may have a better idea.

I believe they are scheduled to convene on the 19th or 20th of this month. They convene 15 to 20 days after the Pope dies. I believe it is probable they will elect someone from Opus Dia unless there is a revolt. The Cardinals over 80 cannot vote but they can make their voice heard. There is a great movement afoot by progressives in the Church to move forward not back and Opus Dia is back. The South Node is conj. the Sun of JP2 Sun on the day he was elected (22 Libra) But the Sun of the 19/20 is poised on 0 Taurus and will have just passed over the NN All that can indicated a move from the old to the new.

If they form the conclave on the 19, the Moon will be opposite Uranus.

As much as governments live in a bubble, the Catholic Church lives in a vacuum. No one questions them, no one investigates them, they are steeped in traditional clap trap and all of us (no matter our religious leanings) are mesmerized because it seems to be "out of this world." Just as we were mesmerized by the Charles and Diana wedding, it's all so far beyond what we will ever experience. However, the Vatican itself is rift with paranoia, politics, and intrigue. They thrive on it and every country bows to the symbols they throw out. If it's an Opus Dia pope there will for sure be the Crusades again. The membership of the Church has fallen around the world and they are beginning to see a return in South America and Africa, they want to see their former power rise. Many of the Vatican Cardinals see Pope John XXIII progressive agenda as having weakened the church and that is when Opus Dia begin openly rebelling within the Church. Even those who think not today, will reach out for the mystic of the Catholic church looking for salvation, not realizing that salvation comes from within.

Just as this last election in the US was a crossroads for the people, so is the May election in the UK a crossroads for the people (and there are allegations of election fraud in England now) the annointing of this new Pope is too a crossroads for the church. I continue to hope and pray for the high road of healing instead of the low road of destruction.

Pallas18, according to the web site, Yellowstone was the initial beneficiary of the NPS act and the reason for it being signed into law in the first place. I would think that the park itself would be so affected by anything happening with the geyser that it would be reflected in the park's "birth" chart.

In a time when all we're hearing about, and the media is focused on, is sickness and death, it is ironic that the California nurses may be the ones who help save this country. Their revolution against Arnuld is hardly getting a heartbeat in the rest of the country, yet. But I think, given time, and the continuation of the egregious behavior of Ambush and pals, the example they are setting will become increasingly important.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1369624

As for wedding news: apparently the new date, April 9th, is the anniversary of his grandmother's death.

"i've never been interrested in organized religion but as a topic, it facinates me...this whole process, all the costumes, the rites....who made this up??"

Stagecraft, the wizard-of-oz 'pay no attention to that man behind the curtain' effect. It's been practiced by the politically crafty to manipulate the psyche of the human masses in every corner of the globe since time immemorial. This pope having been trained as an actor fits right in - something he had in common with Pres Ronnie. Lets face it, all successful politicians and priests must have the gift of putting on a performance that makes their character believable to their audience, or, talented or not, they will not remain in power.

Great posts ... I agree ... It's just another way to mind control ... teach people by rote, ignore the real esoterism behind the teachings. I didn't understand anything about my "catholic religion" until I began studing Blavatsky's teachings. In the middle of my studies i went to a funeral and was very moved by the rituals because they finally made sense. The same thing happened when I went to a synagogue for the first time for a bat mitzvah (spelling?). Most of the people attending were oblivious to the esoteric meaning of their practice. I was very moved. On another note, I was also totally floored when I started reading what was available in the pews. As catholics we are taught that all other religions are false ... then I pick up a book in synagogue and read basically the same stuff I'd seen all my life in church sans Jesus, the messiah. All that hate and fear - for nothing! Religions are used by people to divide and conquer, not to unite.

I abhor organized religion and the mean spiritedness attached to it. Didn't help that I got kicked out of sunday school at the age of 9 for questioning repeatedly what I was told ...

Should Congress renew the Patriot (sic) Act? Go vote; you'll be amazed:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7393230/

Marta

LOL.

I suspect that most of us who read and post here are "New Agers" for that exact reason.

As Will Rogers said, " I don't belong to any organized party, I'm a Democrat"

New Agers could substitute, I'm a "New Ager".
And that's exactly what we like about it. It doesn't seem organized and ritualized.

My views on organized religion were formed very early and, because of the way my family was treated by our local Pastor, very easily!

We weren't ones to go to Church often. My Mother firmly believed that God was everywhere and she would rather have us kids laying in the grass in our backyard looking at the stars in the night sky rather than getting up early on Sunday and sitting on a hard wood pew. It also didn't help matters when the only time we ever got a visit from the Pastor's wife was when the Church needed something.

So, after a couple of years of enduring the monthly "our congregation would appreciate a new bus, could you ...?" or "we'd love to paint the ceiling, might you contribute?" visits, my parents finally made a deal with the Pastor and his wife: if they would stop with the visits and just leave us alone, we'd be happy to donate the money for the new recreation center they'd been "saving" for.

Needless to say, their greedy little hands were out before the sentence was finished! So, the rec center was built (our invitation got lost in the mail) and, wouldn't you know it, the next month there was a Knock, Knock, Knock on the door. Thankfully my Mother had the sense to close the door, lock it, and contact our attorneys to bar them from coming within 50 feet of us. And after that we were suddenly pariahs in town! Oh, and we were going to Hell, too. Guess it takes an open wallet to get into Heaven. LOL

Ah, organized religion. Give me a blanket of clean, green grass and a dark night sky carpeted with bright, shiny stars anytime.

Yes Jonathan,
Did you live in Texas at the time?
My Mother was big on grass and stars too.
I went to Hebrew school with my neighbor Rima, for about a year............................
We were officially Presbyterians. For me religion is serious music...Messiah being the favorite! My 2 girl cousins and I sang in the Jr. Choir all through our childhood, my Father did the tenor parts in Messiah alternate years ( there were 2 tenors in the choir). Which we did in 2 parts......Christmas and Easter.
Our choir directior was a child hood friend of my parents, and just recently my Mother heard from a woman in her retirement center in Fla.. that he had been quite famous in England!!!!! Funny we never knew! Toward the end of his life he did buy a humongeous pipe organ, and built an addition on his bungalow house to accomadate it.
My Great Grandparents built a 3/4 scale cottage in a religious ( Methodist) Camp Grounds, for their retirement, and summers the visiting evangelists , came around to perform.........Elmer Gantry style!
One summer my Pices Aunt and my 2 year old Pices daughter stepped forward and were "born again"!!! Since I had disgarded the Presbyterian doctrine of " predestination" at an early age...I figured Jen knew what she was doing. Today she is a devout Episcopalian, heading towards Buddism ( through yoga)
I wound up with the Quakers as a result of the American Friends Association, sister schools program....throw
a BIG helping of Druid into the mix!
When I was in high school I was fascinated by stories of the young Queen Elizabeth ( 1st) and glad I lived in America, 1950's, without all the treacherous intrigue..........................Hello Elizabethan America!
Enough coffee break rambling...
Pat QOP

Actually, I was born and raised in Washington State and, through my Mother's side, am a descendant of the Howard Family from England, most notably Catherine Howard, one of the wives of Henry VIII and the cousin of Anne Boleyn who was the mother of Elizabeth the 1st. :-)

Off to enjoy the sunny day here in NYC.

http://www.opednews.com/foxmatthew_040405_pope.htm

Some Reflections on the Recent Papacy of JPII

While the media responds profusely to the telegenic pope who has just passed, and while he accomplished some good things such as taking a stand against the Iraq war and against capital punishment and against the idolatry of consumerism, I really do believe that  history will not be kind to this papacy.  This pope and his self-appointed German mafia headed by Cardinal Ratzinger will have to face the judgment of history (and very likely God also) over issues that include but are not limited to the following:   A pre-occupation with morality as sexual issues even when this morality is deeply flawed.  I include the following examples:
     --The forbidding of one billion Catholics world wide to practice birth control even while the human population explodes at the seams.
      --The forbidding of the use of condoms even in a time when AIDS is killing individuals and whole populations the world over
       --The head-long pursuit of Augustine's theology of sexuality (all sex must be legitimized by having children)
       --Ugly attacks in the pope's name against homosexuals and the complete ignoring of what science and professional psychological associations have learned about homosexuality (for example, that it is a natural phenomenon for 8-10% of any given human population as well as over 460 non-human species).   Other attacks include documents against yoga (yes!); against Buddhism (calling it "atheism"); against Thich Naht Hahn (calling him the "anti-Christ"); against feminist philosophers; against women (girls cannot serve at the altar; nor can women be priests); against theologians in general.  Priests are forbidden to use the pronoun "she" for God at the altar.   A prolonged effort to render fascism fashionable.  This includes the rushing into canonization of the card-carrying fascist priest who founded the Opus Dei movement even though this man actually praised Adolf Hitler and also denounced women and has been accused of sexual abuse of six young men who are alive today.  

More....

Enough of the hogwash about how POPULAR * is!

Here are the ratings for presidents as recorded by Gallup in the March following their re-election:

Truman, 1949: 57%.

Eisenhower, 1957: 65%.

Johnson, 1965: 69%.

Nixon, 1973: 57%.

Reagan, 1985: 56%.

Clinton, 1997: 59% .

Bush, 2005: 45%

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000866232

Pallas18 ... re your post ...

Jesus is quoted as saying, "Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man's enemies will be members of his household."

What is the context of the statement (I don't know, that's why I'm asking)? Remember that Jesus was a revolutionary of his times ... so is it possible that the context of the statement might have been referring to was the fact that he challenged the jewish Priesthood and shook up his culture and society ... one of his main missions from childhood was to stop the Priesthood from taking advantage of the poor and needy who were charged usurious taxes in order to comply with jewish laws ... so the comment above may relate to the fact that he knew he was going to be massively opposed by "the powers that be" and that that was going to cause discord within the state, the Priesthood, families and society in general. Again, I don't know ...

Personally, at present I can do without the bible ... find it alot of gobbledegook and almost all of it written by men for men. (just goes to show what a long way I've come - I used to sit by a jewish coworker and good friend in my early 20's and we used to get into massive "theological" conversations. One day she absolutely floored me when said said, "you know what jews think of Jesus"? I said no. "She said, we think he's like SANTA CLAUS"! Totally floored me. Made me laugh like crazy because it seemed to sacriligeous, but the brain does tend to get jogged by such outrageousness ... :) Other vehicles are much better at explaining Jesus and his mission here on earth ...

Pat C,

You are just a FONT of interesting article sites!!

Ah, yes, how can we forget St. Augustine and his horrible anti-life credo?

Was just led to this site a week or so ago and MY, what a find!! EXCELLENT articles and posts and OHMIGOD, astrology ***AND*** leftwing politics! Haven't died, but surely I'm in heaven!

Thanks everyone!

Talk about paranoia...

Passports to be needed for Canada and Mexico by
2008...

http://channels.netscape.com/ns/news/story.jsp?idq=/ff/story/0001%2F20050405%2F1417908940.htm&photoid=20050404AZMY111

Pat C

Couldn't agree with you more about Opus Dei. I'm from Chile and they're very powerful down there. Disgusting sect ... ugh! They tried to "recruit" me when I was about 18-19 ... I didn't even bother going to the meeting since I was apalled by what I knew about them at the time. Curiously enough, I just had another round since I was involved in helping a children's charity from Chile. They do good work, but I found out the board of directors are all Opus Dei (means God's Work), which I didn't care about as long as we were helping the children. They ended up firing the exec. director (a woman of course) who was doing a fabulous job on their behalf. She complained bitterly about the lack of support, consideration and active sabotage she encountered - of course, she's a woman! God's work my ...! When we had the gala the founder barely bothered to look me in the face ... let's just say his eyes were focused somewhere between my belly button and my shoulders. Very holy of him, I'm sure! It's always the ones that are most pious that I worry about the most ... they're typically the most repressed and hypocritical. We never could get a financial statement to ask for grants ... Oh well.

ABCNEWS PETER JENNINGS LUNG CANCER

**Exclusive**

ABCNEWS anchor Peter Jennings and President David Westin sent the following e-mails to their colleagues this morning:

Westin:

This morning, Peter Jennings told his senior staff at World News Tonight that yesterday afternoon he was diagnosed with lung cancer. I include below the full text of Peter’s note to the group of people with whom he works most closely.

He will begin outpatient treatment next week here in New York. It’s both Peter’s and my expectation that he will anchor World News Tonight during the period of treatment to the extent he can do so comfortably; but, we should also expect him to be off the broadcast from time to time, depending on how he feels.

Charlie Gibson, Elizabeth Vargas, and others will be substituting for Peter as necessary and when their other responsibilities permit.

All of us at ABC News have watched over the years as Peter has led us on various assignments with strength and with courage. We’ve done our best to support him in these endeavors. Now, Peter’s been given a tough assignment.

He’s already bringing to this new challenge the courage and strength we’ve seen so often in his reporting from the field and in anchoring ABC News.

I know that all of us will give him every bit of support that he needs and asks for. Peter will once again lead the way, but we will stand with him at every turn.

Peter Jennings:

Dear All – Forgive me the group mailing – but it seems the easiest way to tell a lot of people I care for ….. about a change in my life.

I have been diagnosed with lung cancer. Yes, it was quite a surprise.

As you all know, this is a challenge. I begin chemo-therapy next week. I will continue to do the broadcast.

There will be good days and bad, which means that some days I may be cranky and some days really cranky! Almost 10 million Americans are living with cancer.

I am sure I will learn from them how to cope with the facts of life that none of us anticipated.

In all the years I have worked here I have had the most outstanding support from this news division.

Hundreds of you have been like family. It feels good to have such a family right now.

Peter

Marta

You retain your early teachings.

I am not a theologian.

But Google will find you everything you need to know - such as Jesus leading his people in a rebellion against ROMAN taxes.

http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:epG4ROsqFNUJ:articles.jerusalemperspective.com/articles/DisplayArticle.aspx%3FArticleID%3D1772+Jesus+%2B+Jewish+taxes&hl=en&start=6

"Instead, the chief priests attempted to trip Jesus up by questioning him in public concerning the obligation to pay taxes to the Roman Empire. These taxes were a bitter pill for the Jewish nation to swallow. They represented the loss of freedom and subjugation to a pagan nation. Josephus reports that only a few years earlier, a certain Judah of Gamala (Acts 5:37) had instigated an uprising in the Galilee in reaction to the census for taxation initiated by Quirinius, the governor of Coele-Syria (cf. Lk. 2:2):

this should be more than interesting.

2 bushes, Clinton, and the witch of the west are going to the funeral

Fidel Castro has announced he is going...........

...............

If anybody had any brains they'd take the opportunity to make some kind of peace with the tiny country off the coast of Florida.

But I doubt anyone living has any sense there.
The peacemaker who could do it is lying on a slab.

Light bulb in the brain flash!

I think I just figured out why Bush purses his lips exactly like a chimpanzee, and can't pronounce his s's..., extreme dry-mouth from the drugs he's on.

It's all so mixed up. Religion, spiritual longing, the need to be embraced by grace and protection outside of other people.
It is interesting to me that the evoking of the spirit, that which gives you goose bumps, is achieved through the pleasure of the senses... incense, candles, music, poetry, etc... maybe combined with the group unified energy.

Is this the end of George Bush... this eclipse? He looks like a nothing right now. The little emperor isn't going to be big in Italy.

the dweeb from usa is going for the funeral and there besides Castro, also will be Prez of Iran
and Syria and all these need to be kept APART.

For those who might be interested, I found an Arabic Parts calculator. Here's the link:

http://www.noendpress.com/pvachier/arabicparts/index.php

Now all I have to do is figure out how to work with Arabic Parts! LOL

Fun and games, man.

Thank the everlovin' lord it won't be Cheney in a ski jacket.

Jonathan, contact me I have some valuable information regarding Arabic Parts that could help you

Jonathan,
Sorry I thought you were from Texas!
That's really cool that you're descended from Katherine Howard.! When you heard stories from those days, did you think as I did, that there was too much intrigue in those days?
WV,
I'm really annoyed now. I will have to spend $110. for a new passport, so I can drive to Canada to save 20% on my groceries!!!!! By 2008 tho, maybe the Canadian dollar will bew worth more than the US $.
Pat QOP

PatQOP Pat if the Canadian is worth more that the US you could start a clearing house and get a bunch of stuff for everyone else, our own little ebay

Many stories from International Clearing House...

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/

14 Senators, 24 House Reps, Clarence Thomas, and
Antonin Scalia also going to the funeral.

Are we paying for that?

Could we ask them to leave Scalia with Opus Dei
in Italy - that would be helpful to us.

Is there anybody NOT going to The Funeral?

"Bush met with the pope three times during his presidency. The pontiff was quick to tell Bush about his deep disagreement with the war in Iraq, the abuse of Iraqi prisoners by U.S. troops and Bush's support for the death penalty.

( While Bush was having a hundred photos of the meeting taking place (no sound)and presenting a medal of freedom - like the Pope needed it from him - this is what the Pope was really saying:

"During their final meeting last June, Bush presented the pope with the Medal of Freedom and the pope responded by reading a statement that said he had "grave concern" about events in Iraq."

His attendance is pandering to his religious right, trying to align himself to the Pope...meanwhile it's now reported in the papers that Jimmy Carter wanted to go, but was asked to back off because the American delegation could only be 5 people. Do you think he could have left Laura home and taken another former president.

Plick.

http://www.stariq.com/Main/Articles/P0006195.HTM

The Next Pope

As Pope John Paul II* passed though death's portal Saturday, the world's one billion Catholics praised his leadership, with many calling him a saint. Meanwhile, the Church's cardinals began trekking to Rome to ponder, politic, and elect the next pope. Astrologers can monitor the profound changes through the lens of the Vatican's modern horoscope, set for the city-state's independence from Italy.

The Vatican was born on June 7, 1929 (11:00 am; Rome) with the religious planet Jupiter conjunct the Midheaven. Jupiter is in Taurus, a reflection of the church's deep traditions, as well as its immense wealth. Jupiter is precisely square Neptune, the planet associated with spirituality, but also secrecy, a combination manifest in the Vatican's hidden processes, art treasures, and bank accounts.

Authoritative Saturn in religious Sagittarius is also closely linked to Jupiter (by the inconjunction, 150º aspect). These three planets form a tight network of aspects that foster fundamental changes when activated by outer planet transits or major progressions. At the moment, the Vatican's progressed Sun is nearly exactly conjunct Neptune (orb: -0º10'), describing John Paul II's slipping away.

Pope John Paul II was elected on October 16, 1978 when transiting Uranus, Neptune and Pluto were all closely aspecting the Vatican's Gemini Sun. He truly expressed the travel and communications blend of this sign. At the moment, transiting Neptune is trine the Vatican Sun, offering a window for the next election. However, transiting Pluto is heading toward the Vatican Saturn in a few years, indicating that an older, or more transitional pope is on deck.

I wrote before of the Pope's connection to Reagan/Pappy/the CIA.

The Pope dealt with Casey on secret visits 15 times.

The information comes from Carl Bernstein from Watergate Woodward and Bernstein who wrote a book on the Pope, I think titled "His Holiness" and which includes the info.

He might have freed Eastern Europe but at the Expense of Latin America.

The Akashic Records. God keeps a balance book and when you appear before him he adds up the credits and debits my grandmother told me.

Well, now this is interesting

dimbot's MC is 19 Aries

The eclipse is 19 Aries

At the City of the Vatican, the Part of Sickness
is 20 Aries.

____

It irks me. Condosleeza couldn't have bailed out so President Carter who was the first President to meet the Pope could go? No...because dimbot needs two Mommy's on either side of him to protect him and tell him how to behave like a proper adult and what to say like a half way intelligent monkey.

DeLay's toast. Even Sludge knows that now.
Also, Ahhhhhnold is not having much fun in SF right now:
http://www.swingstateproject.com/2005/04/ca_gov_2006_the.html#more

Usually I do not disagree with a date given by an astrologer but I am disagreeing with Star IQ's date of the Vatican. The Vatican flag first introduced in 1825 was adopted on June 8, 1929 and the Vatican Coat of Arms was adopted on June 7, 1929. However it was February 11, 1929 that Italy and the Holy See signed the papers making the Vatican a sovereignty.

Taken from World Factbook, the date is also given by the Vatican when detailing their history.

11 February 1929 (from Italy); note - the three treaties signed with Italy on 11 February 1929 acknowledged, among other things, the full sovereignty of the Vatican and established its territorial extent; however, the origin of the Papal States, which over the years have varied considerably in extent, may be traced back to the 8th century

Eclipse, and how!! DeLay's now been hit again today. Go go buzzflash.com or to Americablog.com. I'm sure Kos has it too. Oh, man!

Perhaps it speaks volumes that Carter, the most spiritual political leader we have seen in this age, is being excluded from this vatican death fest extravaganza. With so many other world leaders going, I have to wonder if the criminal (terroristic) opportunists won't try to capitalize on the occasion in some way?

then Sally,

you should e mail Jeff, he's very nice and would probably appreciate it.

____

Clinton is not well, but he's going to steal the show from dimbot -they will love him over there and express it

...but it would seem he's going to be sick - or re-open a wound...

the eclipse hits his Vertex opposite Chiron, and transiting Chiron opposes his natal Saturn

This eclipse is just hitting Tom all over the place, mainly his Sun, and eclipse doesn't necessarily mean "taking out, or erasing what has come before," but it can and it does, this just might be Representative Delay's time to go.

Ahhhhhnold didn't get to sing for his supper. Go eclipse!

"People were pounding on the Governor's car, while it was speeding out of the garage. Bob said the car peeled out, and you can literally smell the burnt rubber from where he is standing. He fled with his tail between his legs.

"The motorcade is following the Governor's car down the street. It's over.

"The people won."

http://www.swingstateproject.com/2005/04/ca_gov_2006_the.html#more

Ha! That's great shylurker.

Hey! Shylurker have you checked in at that website again?
It's a live blog........10,000 people just prevented AAnold from attending his own fundraising dinner in SF! They prevented him from entering the building!
Hooraah!
Pat QOP

Oh, yes, Pat QOP! I posted the last entry on that blog just a couple of messages above. Whoooo boy!

I noticed that this eclipse lineup is real close to daddy bush's chiron.

Delay de commie:

"NYT PAGE ONE LEAD, WASH POST PAGE ONE WEDNESDAY, NEWSROOM SOURCES TELL DRUDGE: Ethical questions surrounding House Majority Leader Rep. Tom DeLay of Texas intensify... A six-day trip to Moscow in 1997 by then-House Majority Whip Tom DeLay, R-Texas, was underwritten by business interests lobbying in support of the Russian government, according to four people with firsthand knowledge of the trip arrangements.... Developing..."

Laugh break:

A motorist, on his way home from work in Washington, DC, came to a dead halt in traffic and thought to himself, "Wow, this traffic seems worse than usual."

He noticed a police officer walking between the lines of stopped cars so he rolled down his window and asked, "Officer, what's the holdup?"

The officer replied, "The President is depressed, so he stopped his motorcade and is threatening to douse himself with gasoline and set himself on fire. He says no one believes his stories about why we went to war in Iraq ,or the worsening deficit and economy, or that his tax cuts will help anyone except his wealthy friends. So we're taking up a collection for him."

The man asks, "How much have you got so far?"

The officer replies, "About four gallons, but a lot of folks are still siphoning."

I guess I lingered to look at the other article about Lieberman being chastised by his constituants. Boy that is just great news!
Pat QOP

Jeannie

Now that gave me one of those out loud low laughs.

"Is there anybody NOT going to The Funeral?"

Even the TALIBAN issued a statement from their secret hiding place! It was a backhanded compliment along the lines of:

"We don't really care about the pope, but he had some good things to say. The rest of you Christians can go to hell" or something...

More info;

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1068178.cms

Well, Mars, actually Jimmy Carter was told by Smirky that he (Jimmy) could not attend. Just couldn't figure out how to squeeze him into the delegation. What a crock!

Shylurker, is that true? How awful and humiliating of him to do that. Why would he block out Carter? That is just mean-spirited.

Poor Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhnold!

Bhakti is right. This is the social event of the season. Beats the show of the spring Paris collection.

Good question, Sally. Why ixnay Carter?

At least they're not attacking one another's countries for the moment.

I am ashamed to say that when I read the live blog from the SF protest, I really wished I could have been there to sing na na na na na na, hey hey hey, goodbye. It just has such a nice ring to it for these people who have absolutely no sense of value or respect for their fellow man.

Think what we have paid for movies and sporting events, think what we have allowed the actors to be paid and sports figures, for what. Does Arnold actually think he can run a state or country by slashing everyone's pensions and giving it to the rich. Na na na Arnold.

I dont know what they're serving on that plane, but it looks like everybody's sick.

The eclipse is in Pappy's 8th, Merc ruler of his first is smack dab on 8th cusp, Mars/Neptune is transiting his 6th and Uranus is opposition his Ascendant.

Duh...something's strange.

oop. Everybody's sick but condosleeza. By the way she's one nasty piece of work, besides not being a good liar. Mars opp Pluto natally from 1st to 7th..and this is supposed to be the head diplomat?

You have such a nice singing voice, Sally.

Kindasleazy... the political pinup girl.

heh heh heh heh heh

another laugh out loud.

The Taliban really did acknowledge the Pope's death and they say he's a good Roman Catholic, but all the rest of the Roman Catholics are the enemy of Islam.

In other words, it's like the old joke. The only good (fill in the blank, in this case it is:) Roman Catholic is a dead Roman Catholic.

They're a riot.
_________________________

"Afghanistan's ousted Taliban militia on Sunday acknowledged the Pope's peace-making efforts, but insisted other Roman Catholics were the 'enemies of Islam'. The hardline Islamists, responding to Pope John Paul II's death on Saturday, called for his successor to help stop what they called the 'torture' of Muslims worldwide.

"The Pope's moderation and his voice for peace is noticeable, but the other followers of the Roman Catholic religion are enemies of Islam,"

Diplomat, my ass! (pardon my Italian)

Mars opp Pluto ruling the Midheaven and probably squaring.

Thanks JM, the song has such a lovely ring to it, makes everyone sound good if they are saying goodbye to the right person.

Not to worry about Condi, her day is coming. Saturn will be in her neighborhood soon.

Can you imagine? Saturn coming down the neighborhood street. Wonder what he'd be wearing?
And I wonder which one of our beloved planetary friends will be attending the funeral?....dumbutt allowing.

more questionable fundraising tricks hitting mainstream media
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Investigation/story?id=643826&page=1

shylurker, what plane are you talking about?
i'm excited to see all the world leaders together in one place..sort of like the olympics...
what is the path of the eclipse? anyone know?

Jonathan you doll. Thanks for the site that calculates Arabian Parts!
I got dubya's Part of Assassination at 26Sag5 and his Part of suicide at 28Sag45. hmmmm

Well, Ranier died a couple of hours ago [sorry, don't have the exact time]. Seems like everyone's bolting for the exits...

Jonathan,

I just saw you on an Arabian horse riding out into the cosmos.

Well, jm, it must have been a quick trip 'cause I'm already back! LOL

Bush's Part of Assasination and Part of Suicide near the Galactic Center? Not surprising. My Part of Genius (whatever THAT means) is conjunct the Galactic Center at 25Sag6. :-) I feel smarter already! And my Part of Fame and Part of Increase are both at 24Aqu39 in Opposition to my 23Leo32 Ascendant! Hmmmmmmmmm ...

Sad to see Rainier go. He was Europe's longest reigning Monarch (in Europe's longest reigning Monarchy) and the people of Monaco really loved him. And now Peter Jennings is battling lung cancer? This Eclipse is hitting BIG TIME!!! Wonder what it'll do to my SA Mercury currently sitting at 19 Aries?

Guess I'll let you guys know when I come back with my Arabian Horse from the Cosmos. Anyone want a t-shirt or mug?

It just occured to me that Bush and his contingent of Americans may not be very well received in Italy ('cept for Clinton ... sure to make Bush's lips purse and his ears burn red). And Bush, like the child he is, I suspect will be a bit surprised that he's not the star of the show ... after being feted by his hand-picked crowds here at home. I almost want to be the proverbial fly on the wall to see these American Senators and such get the very real cold shoulder from those very real diplomats and World Leaders who'll be gathering in Italy to truly grieve a man they knew and not just one they kissed up to for "points".

Don't Bush et al. realize that eventually this karmic debt they're incurring must be paid? Let's just say I see lifetimes of fear under the control of some tyrannical dictator in Bush's long-term future.

Skipping way ahead to post this.

It's all over the morning news this morning that Carter was snubbed by Bush on the trip to Rome. I find that promising!

Good on you, Pat C. I just found this for Captain Sally and noticed your updated post on this childish snub when I got back here. Anyway, Captain Sally, here's where I saw it:
http://www.indystar.com/articles/4/234833-5834-010.html

Shylurker, of all people it was Andrea Mitchell who was making a big story of it on the Today Show. Matt Lauer cut her off as politely as he could. He appears to be a loyal agent of the NBC corporate right wing, who ignores big stories regularly and slants as many stories as they can fit into their bandwidth.

I wonder what they did to get Clinton to eat right out of their (collective) hand. He seems to now being their token Dem.

And, Jonathan, I interpret what you said to mean that Smirky would be under the domination virtually eternally of she with the beautiful mind. That'll work! So long as they keep it in private, I mean.

shylurker, I have been wondering the same thing about Clinton. When he said at the opening of his library that B* was a good man I spun around in my chair. Further, watching Cllinton with HWB is a bit like watching an abused wife defending her husband. I usually hit the remote so I don't have to watch.

(Sorry for grammatical mistakes and typos lately; I'm just very excited.)

Hey, all y'all, you can now go vote on whether Carter was snubbed:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3080261/

Heh, they've changed the question to "Do you think the next pope should allow priests to marry?". I voted yes of course.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/gate/archive/2005/04/06/notes040605.DTL&nl=fix

Where Are The Good Christians?
The fanatics and nutjobs now running the show sure give honest believers a bad name

Jonathan, if you want to read about the eclipse that's upcoming for information you can apply in more personal terms than through mundane astrology, you can click here for my take on it and then apply it to your own situation, at least i tried to outline how to judge the eclipse in personal terms

http://www.geocities.com/beachdaytoday

Sally, i was fascinated by what you had to say about your own personal interaction with the pope and the people around him. it is so very true, that behind the scenes situations are so different from the spin that's given. and yes i agree wholeheartedly, it is the images we have in our minds and the spirit we ourselves bring to any personal place or thing that determines our response to it.

nancy, thank you and everyone on the board for reading my article, i wanted so much to let Orwell speak to us for a bit, since what he had to say is just so imperative for us to listen to these days. this administration has under the guise of 'security' managed to strip us bare of so many of our legal rights, it is unbelievable! glad to know many of us are not prey to 'neptune' delusions and see through their lies.

i so enjoy reading all the articles on this site, it really is just such a great place to post.list.read.!!! thank you sally!!!!!!!!

FISK: The US forces, like the Crusaders before them, are prisoners in their own fortresses

Sitting in Saddam Hussein's palace they can stare over the parapets but that is as much as most will ever see of Iraq

by: Robert Fisk on: 1st Apr, 05

I drove Pat and Alice Carey up the coast of Lebanon this week to look at some castles. Pat is a builder from County Wicklow, brave enough to take a holiday with his wife in Beirut when all others are thinking of running away. But I wanted to know what he thought of 12th-century construction work.

How did he rate a Crusader keep? The most beautiful of Lebanon's castles is the smallest, a dinky-toy palisade on an outcrop of rock near the village of Batroun. You have to climb a set of well-polished steps - no hand-rails, for this is Lebanon - up the sheer side of Mseilha castle and then clamber over doorsills into the dark, damp interior.

So we padded around the battlements for half an hour. "Strongly made or they wouldn't be still here," Pat remarked. "But you wouldn't find any company ready to put up the insurance. And in winter, it must have been very, very cold."

And after some minutes, he looked at me with some intensity. "It's like being in a prison," he said.

And he was right. The only view of the outside world was through the archers' loopholes in the walls. Inside was darkness. The bright world outside was cut off by the castle defences. I could just see the splashing river to the south of the castle and, on the distant horizon, a mountainside. That was all the defenders - Crusaders or Mamlukes - would have seen. It was the only contact they had with the land they were occupying.

http://www.globalecho.org/view_article.php?aid=3602

Sorry, that was my post above. On someone else's computer!

http://www.stopactivistjudges.org/schedule.asp
Constitutional Restoration???

Pat C - it's still up on MSNBC about Carter - go vote! So far Yes - 70% No - 30%

shylurker, that's so weird. When I went there before I got the other question, but this time I got the Carter question. S t r a a n g e.

Isabelle, it is a wonderful article! Thank you so much for you good work!

I learn so much here.

Marriage Rally video (sigh) scheduled for April 28th

http://tinyurl.com/6ow3e

2 days to go, and this eclipse is wreaking havoc:
ANATAHAN VOLCANO UNDERWENT A MAJOR ERUPTION OVERNIGHT...RELEASING
VOLCANIC ASH AND GASES UP TO AN ALTITUDE OF FIFTY THOUSAND FEET.
SATELLITE IMAGERY SHOWS THE ASH CLOUD EXPANDING SOUTH AND IS
NOW MOVING ACROSS TINIAN AND SAIPAN. SAIPAN EMO REPORTS THAT ASH HAS
FALLEN ON THE ISLAND. THE ASH CLOUD IS ALSO CAUSING DIMINSHED
SUNLIGHT CREATING A TWILIGHT LIKE EFFECT ON SAIPAN.

THIS ASH CLOUD IS EXPECTED TO MOVE ACROSS GUAM AND ROTA LATER THIS
AFTERNOON AND AS A RESULT A VOLCANIC ASH ADVISORY IS NOW IN EFFECT
FOR GUAM OR ROTA.

does anyone know if there are any other areas at a high risk?

Isabel, thanks for posting your article on the 2005 eclipses!

for those of you wondering why clinton is playing ball with the bushco crew, let me remind you this started when he went to england prior to the iraq war anr propped up that little slime, tony blair. blair was in serious trouble but clinton showed up and gave him the knod. blair survived and we're in iraq.

as i like to say, we need:

NEW LEADERS FOR A NEW DEMOCRATIC PARTY

not these self-serving egotists who share the goal of acceptance into the larger family of the ruling elite, but people driven by a mission.

sally, wow, i'm glad i'm not a world leader with late cardinal planets or whatever. just saw that the prince ranier passed. yikes!

Posted on Salon:

Profit Laundering and Tax Evasion The Dirty Little Secret of Financial Globalization

The debate about cutting taxes for corporations and the wealthy is a false one. The issue is not whether transnational corporations and the very rich benefit from tax cuts, but that many of them walk away from all taxes. A General Accounting Office report found that between 1996 and 2000, 61 percent of all U.S. companies paid zero federal taxes. They accomplish this primarily through "profit laundering," a phrase that ought to be on the lips of every social critic.

Massive profit laundering sucks resources out of the United States and other countries, beggars public programs, and lays waste the social contract on which taxation must be based: that everyone pays a fair amount. It hobbles legislators and officials who want to spend money on social programs but can't dispute right-wing arguments that "there is no money." There is no money because it's been filched from public coffers with the help of the world's big banks, investment companies, and offshore financial centers. The scam is accomplished via offshore shell companies and bank accounts, and it is happening on a global scale.

Apologies for not posting the link for the post above.

http://www.dissentmagazine.org/

Admire the stage....

The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments:
Shortcut to: http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,5164118-103677,00.html

I voted for Bill Clinton twice ... however I agree that it's more than weird that he's cosying up to the Bushes now. I think it's in order to gain support for Hilary's nomination for democratic candidate in 2008. The system is totally rigged. I had ocasion to speak with two republicans prior to the election. One was at a gala and it was days prior to the election and we were discussing the issues. She floored me when she said something to the effect of when the election is over Bush will ... I was startled and I sharply reminded her the election hadn't even been held yet. She said it was a done deal as my chin hung off the table. The other was a business colleague and he mapped out 8 years of republicans through Bush and then 4 with the democrats, probably Hilary - again, all according to plan (he said it with great confidence). What's wrong with this picture? Kinda made me feel like the proverbial kid with his nose stuck against the window of the candy store looking in ...

Any thoughts on how this solar eclipse will affect us all personally?

Then there's that poor artist in Michigan, in jail for replicating the Sistine Chapel on the side of his building!

Pat QOP

Mol, do you have anyone in mind? Birth data, and event?

Pat QOP, what?? Really?

From Mark Crispin Miller:

First, check this out:

http://www.aljazeera.com/me.asp?service_ID=7749

Now, you ask yourself, who in this part of the world reported the Ha'aretz piece?

Almost no-one, is the answer. There was an article, of course, in the New York Sun,

but what about the big-time mainstream press? Well, here's the New York Times'

entire coverage--80 words--of the Russian situation:

January 25, 2005 Tuesday
Late Edition - Final

SECTION: Section A; Column 4; Foreign Desk; Pg. 7

LENGTH: 80 words

HEADLINE: World Briefing Europe: Russia: Jewish Groups Under Attack

BYLINE: By Sophia Kishkovsky (NYT)

BODY:

A group of legislators from the Communist Party and the nationalist party Motherland sent a letter to Prosecutor  General Vladimir V. Ustinov demanding an investigation of Jewish organizations and accusing them of fomenting  anti-Semitism. One Motherland member, Aleksandr Krutov, said that ''often these people themselves organize provocations.'' Anti-Semitic incidents, including the beating of a rabbi in Moscow this month, have been on the rise in Russia. Sophia Kishkovsky (NYT)

And that's all she wrote. So Al-Jazeera beats out all the US competition in reporting

on this growing danger to the Jews of Russia.

MCM

Jeb * is turning Florida into the 'wild, wild, west'... chaos is the order of the day. Not enough that the Wild West has manifested in Middle East with Israel/Palestine... now, it comes to our soil...

-----------

Florida to allow use of force even outside home
'Good, common sense, anti-crime issue'
Tuesday, April 5, 2005 Posted: 8:04 PM EDT (0004 GMT)

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TALLAHASSEE, Florida (AP) -- Gov. Jeb Bush said Tuesday he intends to sign a bill that would allow people who feel threatened -- even on the street or at a baseball game -- to "meet force with force" and defend themselves without fear of prosecution.

The measure, the top priority of the National Rifle Association in Florida this year, passed the House 94-20 on Tuesday. It had already passed the Senate.

Bush, who has championed tougher penalties for people convicted of using guns in crimes, said the bill is about self-defense and called it "a good, common sense, anti-crime issue."

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/04/05/deadly.force.ap/index.html

Re that partial Solar eclipse on Friday...

"The Toil of The Sun" indeed! Score another one for St. Malachy...

Isabelle, thanks for the reference to your article on eclipses (and the quote from Anais Nin). Since the eclipse in Oct (the south node on my ascendant at 0 deg. Scorpio) I have been sick! Every flu, every cold, and a myriad of other things....and I was hoping this eclipse at 19 deg. Aries would bring THAT to an end. Then the lunar eclipse on 24 april was mentioned, and I realized that was the one to look at. It resonates with your explanation of the first house for me...thanks...

Jonathan....a descendant of Katharine Howard's....cool...great story, too....my grass and stars and coconuts were viewed in Hawaii....but it looks the same almost anywhere!

Jo...holy cow. Jeb Bush. unbelieveable....I am speechless.

April 5, 2005 12:50 AM

Berlusconi "massacred" in regional elections

By Robin Pomeroy and Gavin Jones

ROME (Reuters) - Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi has suffered a crushing defeat at Italian regional elections, official resultsshow, a huge boost for centre-left leader Romano Prodi's hopes of unseating him next year.

In what one of his defeated regional governors described as a "massacre", Berlusconi's centre-right coalition appeared tohave lost 11 of the 13 regions at stake, holding on to just two -- Lombardy and Veneto -- both in its stronghold in the north.

Prodi, who had said he would be satisfied by winning just one new seat, was delighted by his landslide victory on Monday.

"Today we have easily won in terms of the number of votes and the number of regions," he told a news conference.

"With this vote Italians are asking us to prepare to govern, to take the country forward."

http://www.swissinfo.org/sen/swissinfo.html?siteSect=143&sid=5656245&cKey=1112655017000

--------------

Rumours sweep Rome death was kept hidden
April 6, 2005

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Rome: The politics of electing the next pope moved into bizarre territory with rumours sweeping Rome of a conservative plot to secure the papacy.

In a conspiracy theory worthy of a Dan Brown novel, liberals suggested that Pope John Paul II had died a day earlier than was officially declared but the news was withheld to give the conservatives an advantage.

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2005/04/05/1112489490671.html?oneclick=true

Jo...the story requires registration....and I am not doing that now. Any good points in the story you can recount?

Yessereeee Jo! Ha! Thank goodness for forign newpapers.

Re Italian elections and the massacre....obviously, Italy's voting isn't rigged like ours. But Bertlusconi is a big supporter of B*.....and vice versa. The big crack?

I apologize for running the ads in the piec on Jeb * above... my energy has been out of sync for 4-5 days now --- I can't seem to do anything right! Seems every point in my natal chart is being aspected by a transiting planet... just trying to put one foot in front of the other... some heavy personal stuff is coming for sure... as well as some stuff in the outer world...

Times like this it surely is a comfort to have this loving corner in cyberspace! Peace and light to all... namaste

Just recieved this email from a friend in Seattle who started the homeless vets program with the VA:

Thought you'd find this E Mail interesting from an MSW Social Worker who works for the V A's Readjustment Counseling Service in Florida . 8 outta 12 in a squad from Iraq in PTSD TREATMENT ........I hear a rumble... AC
---
I've already seen it. In one squad alone that came back from Iraq, I'm treating 8 out of 12.
---------
Vetsforpeace@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Vetsforpeace] Mental Disorders on the Rise Among Iraq/Afghanistan Vets
   Mental Disorders Are on the Rise among Afghanistan, Iraq Veterans
   By Marilyn Elias
   USA TODAY

   Wednesday 30 March 2005

   As many as one out of four veterans of Afghanistan and Iraq treated at Veterans Affairs hospitals in the past 16 months were diagnosed with mental disorders, a number that has been steadily rising, according to a report in today's New England Journal of Medicine.

   Records show that 20% of eligible ex-soldiers came to VA hospitals seeking medical treatment between October 2003 and February 2005. Overall, 26% of them were diagnosed with mental disorders, say Han Kang and Kenneth Hyams of the VA.

   Post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) was most common, diagnosed in 10% of patients, followed by drug or alcohol abuse (9%). Seven percent were diagnosed with depression; 6% had anxiety disorders, such as phobias and panic. Many ex-soldiers had multiple disorders, Kang says.

   But these are tentative diagnoses. Sometimes they were made by primary-care doctors and not yet confirmed by mental health specialists, he says.

   At this point, it is an open question whether these numbers predict how many soldiers ultimately will develop mental health problems, Kang says.

   Patients coming to the VA often lack insurance and might be at a disproportionately higher risk for mental health problems, he says. Also, soldiers who have left active duty may be in more mental distress than those who stayed, adds Army Lt. Col. Carl Castro, chief of military psychiatry at the Walter Reed Army Institute of Research.

   On the other hand, fear of being stigmatized was a key reason that traumatized soldiers didn't seek help while still in the military, an earlier study showed. So these post-duty numbers could more accurately reflect the final toll, says Harvard psychologist Richard McNally, a PTSD expert.

   So far, VA hospitals can easily meet the challenge of mental health care for Afghanistan and Iraq war veterans, Kang says.

   But large funding cuts in VA psychiatry programs over the past several years and the limited number of doctors trained in PTSD could signal big trouble ahead, cautions Bruce Kagan, staff psychiatrist at the West Los Angeles VA Hospital.

   "The soldiers didn't come right away after Vietnam, either. If they come in the numbers predicted, the numbers the VA's own studies predict, we could be overwhelmed," Kagan says.

   About 31% of male soldiers who served in Vietnam developed PTSD, but diagnosis standards were looser then than they are now, says McNally.

   Treatments using therapy and medication have improved greatly since Vietnam, he says. The increasing numbers coming for help could be a positive sign, suggesting earlier detection and possibly better recovery rates. "There's reason for optimism," he says.

Regarding Pope's death kept as secret, I phoned
KPFK in LA on friday to tell the station that I
suspected Vatican was suppressing the 'death' news
because on friday morning one of the channels on TV was televising LIVE the eloborate rituals as if
pope was dead. Why would they go thru all that rituals, if pope was not dead and come back from
coma or whatever and live even a few weeks or months longer; then they should repeat all those
rituals again on LIVE TV for a SECOND time? gimme
a break! This news was suppressed BIG time; may be they were finding an AUSPICIOUS time for death
to be made public to the world. I know of finding
auspicious times for weddings or engagement announcements not for announcing a death!

Sorry Judi Gemini, I just registered, so I am going to run the rest of the article here because I find it credible --- this article originally came from The Telegraph, the Brits' military mouthpiece... here ya are!

------------

"...The theory goes that conservatives close to the Pope decided that if they had an extra day they could mobilise many more sympathetic Roman Catholics from around the world to converge on Rome for the Pope's funeral.

The event would then become one of the biggest mass rallies in Catholic history and increase the momentum in favour of the Pope being elevated to sainthood in record time.

In this heady atmosphere, the speculation goes, the conservative plotters could then ensure the election of another doctrinally conservative figure in the mould of John Paul II.

The rumour may sound far fetched but the fact that it is circulating among - and is believed by - informed liberal Vatican-watchers was an indication of the febrile mood possessing Rome after the Pope's death.

"They managed all this in the Pope's last hours to mobilise the Polish people and the conservative and charismatic movements, like Opus Dei, Communion and Liberation and the Neo Catechumenates, for the purpose of creating a huge turnout for the funeral," an academic said.

"This will provide momentum for calls for the canonisation of the Pope and create the atmosphere that will help the conservatives secure the succession."

Telegraph, London

Strange as it may seem, all major anchors on NBC,
CBS and ABC are leaving about the same time; is this a coincedence, Sally? All three hung on for
25 plus years and I thought they wanted to hang on
for infinitely. Then Brokaw left, Rather got pushed out and Jennings with the bad news about his health. So seems like all three vacating about
the same time within 6 months or less.

The more I see of Clinton with the Bushes the less I like him although I never worshipped him like most other Democrats. I agree with you Marta that Bill is trying to get in the good graces of the Bushes to help out Hillary in 2008. However there may be two obstacles in Hillary's way-her relection next year and the Democratic primary. The NY Rethugs have promised to Swift Boat her just like they did John Kerry last and I don't think Hillary's drift to the right will go unnoticed or forgotten in the 2008 Democratic primaries.

To be honest the DLC and the Clintons have been the worst things to happen to Democratic party. I will say that Clinton did delay W's radical agenda for a while but he destroyed the party's political infrastucture when he forced NAFTA through Congress and signed it.

Nine weeks ago Iraq had its glorious election --- freedom, democracy, all that crap... remember? Well, we haven't heard who the Iraqis voted for, (I don't think they even knew at the time they voted who they were voting for)but word comes today that they finally have agreed on a Kurd for President (anybody who believes they, the Iraqis actually support that... bhakti has a bridge and I have swamp land for sale in Florida)... so, what the heck is going on? We know for sure the US is getting what they want here... and it seems if memory serves this old crone correctly, Sy Hersh alerted us to something along these lines some time ago:

..."The former Israeli intelligence officer acknowledged that since late last year Israel has been training Kurdish commando units to operate in the same manner and with the same effectiveness as Israel’s most secretive commando units, the Mistaravim. The initial goal of the Israeli assistance to the Kurds, the former officer said, was to allow them to do what American commando units had been unable to do--penetrate, gather intelligence on, and then kill off the leadership of the Shiite and Sunni insurgencies in Iraq. (I was unable to learn whether any such mission had yet taken place.) “The feeling was that this was a more effective way to get at the insurgency,” the former officer said. “But the growing Kurdish-Israeli relationship began upsetting the Turks no end. Their issue is that the very same Kurdish commandos trained for Iraq could infiltrate and attack in Turkey." (Sy Hersh)

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?040628fa_fact

Oh well, with all the double-dealing and intrigue going on, we should all simply be grateful we can still post, that we are able to witness, as one commentator mentioned on another blog today... so that in the future, those reading and remembering the atrocities of these times will know we were not all "Germans" --- that some of us opposed what was happening --- that this is not done in our name --- but three years into the occupation and war in Iraq and the hot steamy summer staring us in the face and whatever it may bring... we must simply be glad we are still here... and do our best to remain 'afloat'...

I am thankful for this website Sally, for all that you and others bring to it... and for, as Shylurker has reminded me in the past... all the other little boats on this wide, wide sea (thanks to the children and the Children's Defense Fund logo)... yes, indeed, we all asked to be living in these interesting times, and here we are... remember don't ask for what you want, you just might get it...

Change is definitely in the air...

Yes really Pat C,
I think I posted this a couple of threads back, but I was so stunned by it I kept it bookmarked! 

WSWS : News & Analysis : North America
Michigan artist sentenced to jail over mural nudity

By Joanne Laurier
24 February 2005
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2005/feb2005/cens-f24.shtml

this is the world socialist web site, but I went to several local Michigan papers for pretty much the same story!
Pat QOP

Intelligent Manipulation
John Prados
April 04, 2005

Using a presidential commission to cover up a scandal is an old Washington trick. Here, John Prados examines both scandals: the original manipulation of intelligence and the manipulation of the commission. Bottom line: the politicization of intelligence was the "smoking gun" for this administration, and Judge Silberman just issued a get-out-of-jail-free card.

http://www.tompaine.com/articles/intelligent_manipulation.php?dateid=20050404

-------------

The Associated Press
Updated: 1:39 p.m. ET April 6, 2005KABUL, Afghanistan - A U.S. military helicopter crashed in a dust storm in southeast Afghanistan on Wednesday, killing 16 people in the deadliest military crash since the U.S.-led offensive began in 2001.

advertisement

“Eighteen people, including crew members and passengers, were listed on the flight manifest; two remain unaccounted for,” the U.S. military said in a statement.

An Afghan police official said all the dead, including the four crew, appeared to be American.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7403564/

[Afghanistan, the other forgotten war... how tragic... our children are dying, for WHAT? and we don't even honor them... we will pay dearly for this.]

Raj. you asked about 25 years ago, well give or take a couple of years, it isn't just the shift in the 3 networks, it also Reagan, JP2, and Thatcher is not doing well. Pluto has been going over the Neptune placement at 19/23 Sagittarius and Pluto over Neptune is a generational major change in one's life. Political or social something like that and there is a major change.

Marta what you talked about above regarding your Republican friends is absolutely true. These people have had well funded think tanks to figure out how to do all this for at least 40 years and it's all come together for them. I would say we have not had a true democracy since the late 1800's. This is all well funded and we simply fall in line. They give us two parties so we won't think or catch on to the rigging of the system. The People of the world outnumber them and it's important to keep us happy, at least half the world happy. As this group is taking down the US, China and India are being raised up. There always has to be a balance. China is already slowly putting Civil Liberties in place, the Chinese have recent freedoms they have never had before. We have neither the money or the leaders to bring us out of this and the Clintons are not going to be the answer. We will all have to figure out how to fly under their radar.

Sally,

There's another coincidence about the 3 you mention Reagan, JP2 and Thatcher. All'll be gone with in a year of each other and also all three
survived assasination attempts within a year of each other and survived to about the same amount of time, is it not?

Several comments here:

Announced today Tom DeLay paid his daughter and his wife 500,000 each ( 1 million) for fundraising
duties....he says its all a democratic slam and he doesn't see anything wrong with paying them.

Halliburton was caught cheating the US govt for the food etc they were supposed to be supplying to the army. Remember that? They presented a bill
which was inflated by 40%. They were paid today.
Only 5% was taken off their inflated bill.

Isabelle,

Thanks for reminding about the second April Eclipse, which is already in effect as well as the
April 8 one...I hadn't even been looking at the second.

Sally -

I've found two birthdates for Prince Rainier. - one is Oct 31, 1923 and the other is May 31, 1923 ???????

An awful lot of high placed people seem to be checking out - Nobel Prize Winner for writing Sol
Bellows today as well as Rainier -And I suspect with this second eclipse at 4 Scorpio, the entire month is going to continue to be Plutonian.

And finally, Andrew Card, dimbot's chief of staff attended in the delegation and was seen entering
the Basilica. Was he more important than President Carter going?

oh forgot -

when we have Rainier's true birthday, his death was 6:35 AM (their time) Monte Carlo, Monaco, April 6, 2005

Pallas,

When * goes anywhere, he needs his mouthpieces and those who 'hold' him up... he cannot stand alone... so his entourage is a huge one... add to that the security he demands, and as I said upthread, I don't know how he can even attend the funeral... it is one thing to tromp through the Queen's garden and barracade the palace windows, but it is quite another to flank the Pontiff's casket and the Vatican --- it will be interesting to see what goes on between *'s security forces and the Vatican's... I won't be watching, but perhaps some of you AW's can report for the rest of us...

On one level, I am glad Carter won't be there... his would be the one good soul there! In a sea of greedy self-serving entities... my psyche could not stand such an environment, I don't think his could either...

Marta and Sally,

During the Persian Gulf War under GHW*, I went to a lecture by a man calling himself a "political researcher." He stated that as young adults the elite in the US pick which political party they'll join, and then -- like you said, Sally -- they give us a show. The "divisive issues" are to keep the people divided and against each other, rather than turning against "THEM."

When Clinton won 1st time, this man stated that people will think Clinton will be progressive, etc., and the horror was over. But it was a charade and more of the same.

Point is, it's in essence a special, secret club; remember the post about the neo-cons just wanting to rule the world? That they have no allegiance, no country, etc., just an agenda....well, that's the same thing this man was saying 15 years ago.

And doesn't it make sense? I mean, if I had run against GW* in 2000 would I have given up the fight? NO. How about 2004? NO. Why do these "opponents" get so mealy-mouthed and slink off stage the way they do? Boy was I disappointed when "the scream" dropped out of the race. I like some fight in my politicians.

That said, in my heart of hearts I like B Clinton. he sure is charismatic, isn't he? and he appears to have a heart, to some degree (maybe not enough to promote economic equality...)

Interesting that Laura used to be a Dem, Hillary a repugnican.

Turned on the TV first thing this morning (NZ time) and lo and behold the pope was still dead. The interesting thing though was the camera was on the prezzies paying their 'respects.' GW on one end, Condi the other. What caught my eye though was the body language - besides the interesting individual actions of all of them, daddy bush was scrunched up as close as he could possibly be to Laura leaving absolutely no space between the three bushes. In other words, he was as far away as he could possibly get from Clinton, and Condi, on Bill's left, was as far away from him as possible in the other direction. It seemed a rather odd picture of Bill standing all alone.
Did any one else catch that?

Andrew Card was right up there kneeling in the place that should have been Carter's.

Surprised we didn't see Rove there.

I'm wondering if the million that are waiting in line to see the Pope, have been cut off tonight
Wednesday instead of Thursday night because of the
arrival of the dimbots.

Jeannie,

what I noticed was condosleeza's face. Ugly, dark, furtive looks around - what a mean looking face she has - while everybody else was praying - except dimbot..until Laura leaned over and told him to close his eyes and loook down.

Pallas, yeah I caught condis face too - black energy for sure (no pun intended.) Daddy too was looking very uncomfortable around with arms in a real closed body position.

9:57PM Lori speaks the truth! I couldn't agree more.

As "Big Moma" says in "Chicago", "It's a tit for tat world."

Song: When You're Good to Mama Lyrics
[MATRON]
Ask any of the chickies in my pen
They'll tell you I'm the biggest mother hen
I love 'em all and all of them love me
Because the system works
The system called reciprocity...

Got a little motto
Always sees me through
When you're good to Mama
Mama's good to you.

There's a lot of favors
I'm prepared to do
You do one for Mama
She'll do one for you.

They say that life is tit for tat
And that's the way I live
So, I deserve a lot of tat
For what I've got to give
Don't you know that this hand
Washes that one too
When you're good to Mama
Mama's good to you!

If you want my gravy
Pepper my ragout
Spice it up for Mama
She'll get hot for you

When they pass that basket
Folk contribut to
You out in for Mama
She'll put out for you

The folks atop the ladder
Are the ones the world adores
So boost me up my ladder, Kid
And I'll boost you up yours

Let's all stroke together
Like the Princeton crew
When you're strokin' Mama
Mama's strokin' you

So what's the one conclusion
I can bring this number to?
When you're good to Mama
Mama's good to you!

the thought occurs to me this may be some sort of catharsis for dimbot. maybe he'll become a companssionate human being. He wasn't allowed to mourn the death of his sister by Mommy and Daddy who went out and played golf after the death. And
you'll notice he never goes to greet dead American soldiers who died for him, no one else but h i m !

So now he's forced to go to a funeral of someone he knew...maybe he'll grow from it.

Meanwhile, this eclipse on dimbot is quite important as is the next one.

Pluto is retrograding and in May will move from 24 Sag to dimbot's Vertex (fate point) at 23 Sag.

On the second eclipse which is active already as I write, Pluto 24 Sag is in sextile to Mars at 25
Aquar, and both form a Yod to dimbot's natal Saturn at 26 Cancer. Yod, finger of fate, forced adjustment, you don;t get a choice.

dimbot's natal Mars is 9 Virgo and on both eclipses Uranus is opposing it, (and squaring the USA Uranus (rising in the Gemini USA chart) - Uranus rules dimbot's 8th house cusp.

While the April 8 eclipse is on Dimbot's Washington MC at 19 Aries it opposes his Jupiter
at 18 Libra and his 4th house cusp at 19 Libra. His Natal birth chart would give him a 24 Libra
4th house cusp.

There is sufficient peril to be triggered anytime between now and April 24th or when a transit triggers those sensitive points afterwards...there is much fated here - I would watch any transit to the 4th cusp of 19 to 24 Libra for a completion of what seems to be foretold. The transit of the Sun in Aries could be a trigger from the 8th to the 14th or the Moon
on the 22nd or 23rd.

By the way,

Dennis Hastert has gone to the hospital today for
the removal of kidney stones.

He expects to fly to the Vatican tonight.

Anybody who has ever had kidney stones would find that pretty surprising.

I'm sorry - I always forget to mention something.

In addition to all the perilous transits mentioned
above to Dimbot's chart...I left out that on this eeclipse transiting Mars and the Vertex are inconjuct /quincunx his Sun...The wife looked terrible, he didn't look unhealthy...but these are very unhealthy transits and with Mars sextile Pluto both quincunx his natal Saturn in the 12th, which rules his 6th house of health...well - one would think he would be showing signs of ill health; unless it comes on suddenly with Uranus opposing his natal Mars.

*******THEY ARE OFFICIALLY INSANE********

THIS MEANS WAR.

UNBELIEVABLE. THEY WANT TO TORTURE OR KILL INNOCENTS.

IS THIS WHAT THEY MEAN BY THE "CULTURE OF LIFE"?

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Will cancer vaccine get to all women?

* 16 April 2005
* NewScientist.com news service
* Debora MacKenzie

DEATHS from cervical cancer could jump fourfold to a million a year by 2050, mainly in developing countries. This could be prevented by soon-to-be-approved vaccines against the virus that causes most cases of cervical cancer - but there are signs that opposition to the vaccines might lead to many preventable deaths.

The trouble is that the human papilloma virus (HPV) is sexually transmitted. So to prevent infection, girls will have to be vaccinated before they become sexually active, which could be a problem in many countries.

In the US, for instance, religious groups are gearing up to oppose vaccination, despite a survey showing 80 per cent of parents favour vaccinating their daughters. "Abstinence is the best way to prevent HPV," says Bridget Maher of the Family Research Council, a leading Christian lobby group that has made much of the fact that, because it can spread by skin contact, condoms are not as effective against HPV as they are against other viruses such as HIV.

http://www.newscientist.com/channel/sex/mg18624954.500

Ok, are you ready. I'm not kidding, this is unbelievably amazing. Oxford scientists can now read previously unreadible literature from Greece, 100's of plays, etc., and perhaps even lost Gospels. WOW!!! This is consistent with the theme of 'the hidden being revealed' here at AW.

This is the link to the link. Yikes!!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1400331

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Just to be flippant for a moment:Anyone else notice the similarities getween the Bush administration and the Borg?'Resistance is futile! You will be assimilated into the New World Corporate Order!'On a serious ending note, the Bush administration has just declared war on everyone else in space. I'm beginning to wonder if these clowns aren't rogue Scientologists who took L. Ron Hubbard's disgusting science-fiction vision of A future and are trying to make it THE future.Softwaredata recoveryVoIPWhat is WiFiInternet TelephonyVoIP ProviderVoIP SoftwareVoIP Services What is VoIPVoIP Phone SystemVoIP DrawbackVoIP ArchitectureVoIP Solutions VoIP ReviewsVoIP TechnologyWiFi CardsWiFi AntenaWiFi IEEE WiFi RangeWiFi WAPWiFi futureWiFi SecurityWiFi Hotspot WiFi BluetoothWiFi Drawbackwhat is data lossdata recoveryraid data recoverydata recovery softwarehard drive data recoverydata recovery servicehard disk data recoverydisk data recovery emergency data recoveryrecovery solutionsComputer Data RecoveryNetwork securityFireWall securityAbout UsNetwork securityContact usSite MapFirewallSecurity TipsFirewallRole of IPHacker TechnologiesVPNRelated Topics Application Layer AttacksIP AddressingIP Spoofing Netwark security scannerNetwork packet sniffersPassword attacksProtecting confidential informationSecurityTrusted Networkbusiness cardsflightsfirewallcar rentalnetwork securitycruisesweddingcorporate giftscheap flightsantivirus softwareBackground ChecksCRMVOIPFree VoIPDefinition of VOIPVoIP ArchitectureVOIP ReviewsAuto Telephone DialersUnlimited Free VOIPCRM software reviewsVOIP TechnologiesVoIP ProviderBPOVoIP Site mapBackground checksData recoveryAdvantages of WiFiScuba DivingNetwork SecurityLindsay LohanVoIPConferencingSoftwareWiFi Certification
WiFi FreeSpot
Deployment
WiFi SM
Disadvantages of WiFi
Free WiFi enabled Airports
European trains with WiFi
North Pole WiFi hotspots
WiFi Technology's
Wireless Equipment
Wireless Gateway
ERPAutomotive SoftwareFree driver downloadsVoIP ArchitectureMedical billing softwareWhat is Background checksRaid Data recoveryAdvantages of WiFiScuba DivingTips for Network SecurityPicture gallery of Lindsay LohanWhat is VoIP technologyFree VoIPSoftwareConstruction softwareDatabase managementWeb designing softwareconferencingvideo conferencsecure video conferencingweb vs video conferencingconferencingPOS softwareGamesLindsay LohanLindsay LohanLindsay Lohan BiographyLindsay Lohan GalleryLindsay Lohan RumorsLindsay Lohan NewsLindsay Lohan Top Movie'sLindsay Lohan GlamourLindsay Lohan Life StyleLindsay Lohan Parent Trap Lindsay Lohan's DVDBackground ChecksBackground Checks Education VerificationEmployment VerificationBackground ChecksAsset SearchBankruptcy RecordsBusiness BackgroundContractor ScreeningDrivers LicenseScuba DivingScuba DivingRescueScuba Diving EquipmentHot spotsRecreational divingCommercial divingScientific diving Diving suitsScuba Diving LessonsStaying fit for divingService ProvidersHealth Check-up for diving Places for Scuba Divingbackground checksdata recoverywifiscuba divingnetwork securitylindsay lohanvoipconferencingsoftware

Just to be flippant for a moment:Anyone else notice the similarities getween the Bush administration and the Borg?'Resistance is futile! You will be assimilated into the New World Corporate Order!'On a serious ending note, the Bush administration has just declared war on everyone else in space. I'm beginning to wonder if these clowns aren't rogue Scientologists who took L. Ron Hubbard's disgusting science-fiction vision of A future and are trying to make it THE future.Softwaredata recoveryVoIPWhat is WiFiInternet TelephonyVoIP ProviderVoIP SoftwareVoIP Services What is VoIPVoIP Phone SystemVoIP DrawbackVoIP ArchitectureVoIP Solutions VoIP ReviewsVoIP TechnologyWiFi CardsWiFi AntenaWiFi IEEE WiFi RangeWiFi WAPWiFi futureWiFi SecurityWiFi Hotspot WiFi BluetoothWiFi Drawbackwhat is data lossdata recoveryraid data recoverydata recovery softwarehard drive data recoverydata recovery servicehard disk data recoverydisk data recovery emergency data recoveryrecovery solutionsComputer Data RecoveryNetwork securityFireWall securityAbout UsNetwork securityContact usSite MapFirewallSecurity TipsFirewallRole of IPHacker TechnologiesVPNRelated Topics Application Layer AttacksIP AddressingIP Spoofing Netwark security scannerNetwork packet sniffersPassword attacksProtecting confidential informationSecurityTrusted Networkbusiness cardsflightsfirewallcar rentalnetwork securitycruisesweddingcorporate giftscheap flightsantivirus softwareBackground ChecksCRMVOIPFree VoIPDefinition of VOIPVoIP ArchitectureVOIP ReviewsAuto Telephone DialersUnlimited Free VOIPCRM software reviewsVOIP TechnologiesVoIP ProviderBPOVoIP Site mapBackground checksData recoveryAdvantages of WiFiScuba DivingNetwork SecurityLindsay LohanVoIPConferencingSoftwareWiFi Certification
WiFi FreeSpot
Deployment
WiFi SM
Disadvantages of WiFi
Free WiFi enabled Airports
European trains with WiFi
North Pole WiFi hotspots
WiFi Technology's
Wireless Equipment
Wireless Gateway
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Just to be flippant for a moment:Anyone else notice the similarities between the Bush administration and the Borg?'Resistance is futile! You will be assimilated into the New World Corporate Order!'On a serious ending note, the Bush administration has just declared war on everyone else in space. I'm beginning to wonder if these clowns aren't rogue Scientologists who took L. Ron Hubbard's disgusting science-fiction vision of A future and are trying to make it THE future.Cheap Air FlightsFlightsCheap FlightsCheap Flights to USACheap Flights to AustraliaCheap Flights to CanadaCheap Flights to New YorkBusiness cards Business cardsvoipNetwork securityNetwork securityFirewallcar rentalnetwork securitycruisesweddingcorporate giftsbackground checksdata recoverywifiscuba divingnetwork securitylindsay lohanvoipconferencing

lil kim act really well.jennifer aniston is a great actress.mariah carey has artistic body.christina aguilera is a nice actress.carmen electra very popular.paris hilton very famous.pamela anderson is very sexy. tara reid is really hot.jessica albaacts really well.briana banks can perfom well.catherine bell has guts.natalie portman very beautifull actress.alyssa milano did well in her last movie.vida guerragoing down these days.madonna very famous actress.halle berry has nice figure.shania twaincan fights well.heidi klum doing well these days.jennifer garnermight go long.traci lords can go beyond the limits.hilary swankdid well in her last movie.chloe jones really hot. Kiera Knightleyis under guidence.demi moore will do wonder.sable nice name.

hi how are you my dear. i am from IRAN. my name is majid.
i am 36 years old man. my city is kerman. i am a moslem. i don,t like
smoking sigarret . i am looking fora good girl or women from every where.
but i am very very kind and good .i like girl and women very very much.
but i don,t like sxualgirl and sexualwomen. because i am religiose .i worship and prayer God .and i like God very very much. i can,t speak and write english
very very well . because mymother,s language is PERSIAN or FARSI
but i can learn you mylanguage very soon. you can come to my country
and i am at your servant. we iranian peopole are very very hospitable.
iran is very good.you can come to iran and stay with me. i am looking for
a real love . if girl or women love me , i love them very very very very very much.
i can send you a very gift from IRAN. i can help you
this is my e-mail mana - kermani @yahoo.com
good bye dear

hi how are you my dear. i am from IRAN. my name is majid.
i am 36 years old man. my city is kerman. i am a moslem. i don,t like
smoking sigarret . i am looking fora good girl or women from every where.
but i am very very kind and good .i like girl and women very very much.
but i don,t like sxualgirl and sexualwomen. because i am religiose .i worship and prayer God .and i like God very very much. i can,t speak and write english
very very well . because mymother,s language is PERSIAN or FARSI
but i can learn you mylanguage very soon. you can come to my country
and i am at your servant. we iranian peopole are very very hospitable.
iran is very good.you can come to iran and stay with me. i am looking for
a real love . if girl or women love me , i love them very very very very very much.
i can send you a very gift from IRAN. i can help you
this is my e-mail majid643111@noavar.com and this my nuber telephon 098-0341-3229465 good bye dear
this IS my address - IRAN -KERMAN P.O.BOX 76135-968

hi how are you my dear. i am from IRAN. my name is majid.
i am 36 years old man. my city is kerman. i am a moslem. i don,t like
smoking sigarret . i am looking fora good girl or women from every where.
but i am very very kind and good .i like girl and women very very much.
but i don,t like sxualgirl and sexualwomen. because i am religiose .i worship and prayer God .and i like God very very much. i can,t speak and write english
very very well . because mymother,s language is PERSIAN or FARSI
but i can learn you mylanguage very soon. you can come to my country
and i am at your servant. we iranian peopole are very very hospitable.
iran is very good.you can come to iran and stay with me. i am looking for
a real love . if girl or women love me , i love them very very very very very much.
i can send you a very gift from IRAN. i can help you
this is my e-mail majid643111@noavar.com and this my nuber telephon 098-0341-3229465 good bye dear
this IS my address - IRAN -KERMAN P.O.BOX 76135-968

I agree with you .
http://www.gugu.pl/ wyszukiwarka cenowa
http://www.agdrtv.com/, wow ale nie waw
http://www.agdrtv.com/notebooki/ , camisony nexoo
http://www.lg.agdrtv.com/ , który nie ten lienergee
http://www.toshiba.agdrtv.com/ laptop ale ktomenistecoon
http://www.sony.agdrtv.com/ , a gdzie nim
http://www.samsung.agdrtv.com/ , tam ale nie tu
http://www.siemens.agdrtv.com/ niemiecka marka lae takimotoe
http://www.panasonic.agdrtv.com/ , kiedy kolwiek
http://www.agdrtv.com/kamery_cyfrowe/ , sony whirlpool
http://www.gugu.pl/5/ wózki dziecięce
http://www.agdrtv.com/telewizory_lcd/ , telewizory plazmowe jvc
http://www.agdrtv.com/telewizory_plazmowe/ , hoover pralki
http://www.agdrtv.com/pralki/ , zmywarki promocje
http://www.agdrtv.com/lodowki/ , kuchnie amica
http://www.hp.agdrtv.com/ , a gdzie nim
http://www.eeeby.pl/ wyszukiwarka cenowa
http://www.camcoo.com/ lcd dvd i inne
http://www.gugu.pl/8/ dla dziecka foteliki
http://www.kancelaria.prawna.info/ oki doki mocki pocki
http://www.gugu.pl/5/ wózki dziecięce
http://www.acer.agdrtv.com/ acer notebooki
http://www.fujitsu-siemens.agdrtv.com/ sklep fujitsu siemens laptopy
http://www.gugu.pl/12/ łóżeczka dla dzieci
http://www.whirlpool.agdrtv.com/ pralki i piekarniki whirlpool
http://www.camcoo.net/ camcoo katalogo stonico