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WHAT A DIFFERENCE A DAY MAKES
One can only wonder if Diebold supplied the voting machines or scanners. Over, done, caput, finished, success, democracy at last. There you have it, overwhelming victory. Lies - justified. Torture – justified. Dead and wounded innocent civilians – justified. Dead and wounded soldiers – justified. Incompetence – justified. With the promise of being killed if they do and killed if they don’t, more Iraqis voted in this election than the US election, 72 percent according to Dr. Rice, quoting the exit polls (seems their exit polls are more accurate than the exit polls on Nov. 2) Modern Iraq counts its birth date on July 14, 1958 at 4:00am the result of a military coup. Iraq was born in violence, makes me wonder if fire and blood is the only way Iraqis can even consider beginning again. Astrologically, the end for Iraq came when Paul Bremer hastily made the “Iraq transition” on June 28, 2004 at 10:26am in Baghdad, and then beat it out of the country as fast as he could. He ran so fast that people are just now wondering what happened to the $9 billion dollars of our taxpayer’s money now missing since June 28th. http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-4766808,00.html Paul doesn’t like to be questioned about the missing funds, still there are questions because $9 billion simply went poof. While Iraq is not at a beginning of a new country, the transition chart effectively ended the Iraq born in 1958 with T-Pluto conjunct the ’58 chart’s Saturn and opposing its Venus. Today, January 30, 2005 at 12:00 midnight promised to open the door for more confusion, with the Moon at 29 degrees Pisces making a Full Moon aspect to the Sun at the beginning of the most recent Iraqi war of March 2003 and T Mars is progressing to form a T-square with the Sun and Moon, this next few days will be a little rocky. Just as the “insurgents” didn’t put up much of a fight before or during the “war” and waited until it was declared over, they didn’t put up a fight when Paul Bremer declared a “transition” but waited until later, they won’t put up much of a fight for this, but wait until later. For the Iraqi’s sake I cannot imagine anyone in the world who doesn’t hope and pray things will get better for this country following the vote, but I don’t have much hope that it will, not right away. Allawi is just another Saddam we have supported into power over the Iraqi people; he has already been killing people who don’t agree with the “agenda.” He’s been described as “Saddam without the mustache.” http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2004/Allawi-CIA-Baghdad23jul04.htm He doesn’t leave it to his “stooges” he takes a gun and kills them himself, and our government just looks away. This isn’t a new start for them, but a continuation of what they have and have had all along. In the 1958 chart the Sun is 21 Cancer, Saturn the “karmic daddy” is conjunct, the North Nodes of today and 1958 conjunct! With those aspects, the Iraqis will have to move fast if they want to truly have a new way of life, otherwise “democracy” is looking a whole lot like American puppets, and we just sit here and watch them lie and lie, with a Congress too polite or scared to stand up. God Bless and Protect the Iraqi people, please. FEBURARY 2 Believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see. It won’t matter if the Green Zone is blown to smithereens between now and February 2, the State of the Union speech will be filled with references to bringing democracy to Iraq and the success of their vote. For those of you still connected to reality, hold on tight. The Sun conj. Neptune and that spells hubris, lies, and confusion, disconnect, disassemble. The Moon is VOC in Scorpio, this speech won’t really be to the people, but with the Sun/Neptune maybe the people can project their hopeful fantasies onto the podium. The timing of this speech is critical. At 9:00pm the Ascendant is at 27 degrees Virgo, close to the end and Mars is in a tight square. (and an inconjunct to his Saturn) He will manage to intensely anger someone with this speech, but who? The military, Congress, us, the rest of the world, who? At 9:09 pm, every house cusp will be at 27,28,29 degrees and those are final degrees, by 9:11 pm the cusps at the 4 angles (1st, 4th, 7th and 10th) will be at 29 degrees and by 9:14 they will in the final seconds of the 29th degree. Historically, in astrology, that translates into “the end.” The end of what? The end of America as we know it, or the last State of the Union speech given to America by this President, or maybe the end of this administration’s interest in Iraq and on to Iran. The unaspected Uranus in the 6th house spell something sudden and unexpected for Social Security, since this Uranus trines the US Jupiter, maybe we will get a break, maybe they will go too far and it will actually be the AARP who delivers a “come to Jesus” meeting with Congress. Except for the retrograde Saturn in the 10th (inconjunct Pluto) everything is below the horizon, and the whole chart feels heavy on domestic issues and our “daddy” leaders not getting very far with their agenda. Saturn retrograde in the 10th in its fallen sign of Cancer, and Capricorn/Cancer intercepted in the 4th and 10th and Saturn co-ruling the sign of the Sun it just feels like Saturn doesn’t have enough umph to bring the rest of the country up to his confused thinking. That Saturn is just too weak to carry the rest of the nation. In the final analysis “Strongbow” Bush will be lacking in passion and over-estimating his “political capital.” There are dangers living in a bubble for too long.
Sally Cheyne McDonald on Jan 31 | Link
Comments
Excellent article Sally! Perhaps we should watch to see exactly what he is talking about at 9:14pm. Maybe this will give us a clue as to what ending is about to transpire. The folks over at the DailyKos are discussing a "preemptive" state of the union address by Democrats. They're suggesting that the Dems make a checklist for the media of things the president needs to address. I think this is an excellent idea. Here is my proposed checklist: 1) What is our exit strategy from Iraq? "Victory" is not a strategy. If Iraq is now a sovereign democracy, we are now illegally occupying the country and we have a moral duty to leave as soon as possible. List three steps that will allow us to bring our troops home. 2) The President has proposed that we privatize social security by borrowing 2 trillion dollars to set up private accounts. With regards to the two trillion dollars, WHO will we borrow from, HOW will it be paid for, and WHEN will we pay it back? How does the administration plan to make good on its defecit reduction pledges AND AT THE SAME TIME borrow 2 trillion dollars? 3) Is the torture of detainees part of administration policy? Torture allegations emerged in the spring of 2003, yet we are still hearing new allegations of torture taking place at Guantanamo and at prisons and detainments centers throughout Iraq almost 2 years later! Will the President support a Congressional investigation of the continued torture scandals? 4) How will the administration cut the defecit in half by 2008, as promised during the 2004 political campaign? Will the President ask for a repeal of the tax breaks for the wealthy in pursuit of this goal? 5) In the spirit of bipartisanship and uniting the country, as the president promised in the 2004 campaign and continues to promise in his political speeches, will the President agree to hold a summit with minority leaders in the Senate in the event that a vacancy appears on the Supreme Court? 6) Does the administration support a military draft? Does the administration plan to bow to the wishes of the Project for the New American Century and the pressures of other prominent neo-conservative leaders and reinstitute the draft? 7) Will the administration pledge to end the don't ask don't tell policy in the military which has severely damaged the military's ability to gather and translate intelligence from Arabic speaking countries? 8) Does the President support legislation that will create a mandatory paper trail for all electronic voting machines in the United States? 9) Does the President support John Kerry's health care proposal to protect America's children? 10) Does the President intend to make good on his pledge to pass a constitutional amendment restricting the right to get married? Will the president support civil unions? Anyway, excellent article Sally! You called it first. Posted by: Dave on January 31, 2005 05:40 AMsally, excellent article once again. the world will keep moving forward in many areas with or, most certainly, without mr. *. i've been irritated all day at the thought that i have to live in such a non productive world infused with greed and violence. the thoughts have been occuring more frequently lately. my feeling is that this is happening to others and when enough feel this way, the morons will lose their mojo. dave, the DEMS are showing real signs of life lately. i'm loving it. i'm hoping that dean gets DNC chair. we'll be in good shape then. cheers Posted by: mike on January 31, 2005 06:34 AMI am very happy to see the Dems lead with their own State of the Union. The Dems are going to need to "out-shout" and keep out-shouting the Republicans. The Dems are going to have to risk ridicule and loss of corporate money, and continue to stand up. Actually both parties are in more trouble with the people than they realize, and both are coming up on hard times and critical times. I am not sure the Dems have the strength to stand up right now, but they are going to have to find it someplace. They have a Jupiter conj Neptune in their party chart, opposed by Saturn, they don't have the collective stomach for street fighting. They continue to think if they are nice and present intelligent organized facts they will win. For the first time in a long time, the chair of the Democratic Party is going to be essential and I hope they pick wisely. They need a big mouth like Howard Dean that is willing to fight and take the flack and organize them. But the chair is going to need the party behind him. Posted by: Sally on January 31, 2005 06:50 AMThe "end" I really think he will signal is that in his delusions, he is done with Iraq. I think he will announce when the withdrawal will be, he has Allawi in place and that insures the oil, and he is done with Iraq as an agenda item. The Iraqi people can go fish and put their own war torn country (thanks to us) together. The war started with the Sun at 29 Pisces and that will fall on the 7th house of the US Chart, with "Election" Moon in the first house. I think he will smirk and announce when he will withdraw the troops. He has accomplished his hidden agenda for being in Iraq from his perspective. It will be onto Iran and that will be the anger he generates with allies. We may even hear about the "danger" we are in because of Iran's nuclear capabilities and the same story will be circulated with Blair and Bush. I heard Blair sound that Iran alarm tonight on C-span to his own house of Lords, and he said something must be done about Iran. Quote "they (Iran) cannot continue on ignoring the requests by the UN Security Council, they must be stopped." The good news is Arnold's polls are dropping in California, right on a Saturn schedule, Bush and Blair can't far behind but the question will be "what will we the people in US and England do about it?" Posted by: Sally on January 31, 2005 08:02 AMSally, Okay, I know the GOP has taken the Demos 'mantras' and now they are telling us they're the 'values' party, and according to dKos they soon will be telling us they're the party of (don't spit your coffee on the computer screen) Civil Rights! Now comes the new SOS con fried rice shaking her pompoms for the admin's efforts in Iraq, telling us the turnout was 72%... 'course it wasn't and if it had of been, that would only mean 72% of the Iraqis voted for a secret candidate to do ? Here comes a kossack to remind us of the days of old, and lo! lower than low... the rats are stealing the Dems old news almost word for word, and regurgitating it... guess things change but they stay the same? Note the dateline: 9/4/1967 ------------ U.S. Encouraged by Vietnam Vote : by Peter Grose, Special to the New York Times (9/4/1967: p. 2) WASHINGTON, Sept. 3-- United States officials were surprised and heartened today at the size of turnout in South Vietnam's presidential election despite a Vietcong terrorist campaign to disrupt the voting. According to reports from Saigon, 83 per cent of the 5.85 million registered voters cast their ballots yesterday. Many of them risked reprisals threatened by the Vietcong. The size of the popular vote and the inability of the Vietcong to destroy the election machinery were the two salient facts in a preliminary assessment of the nation election based on the incomplete returns reaching here. Posted by: Jo on January 31, 2005 01:21 PM Sally, Love it, love it — particularly the last of the article: In the final analysis “Strongbow” Bush will be lacking in passion and over-estimating his “political capital.” There are dangers living in a bubble for too long. Nobody can tell it like a Scorpio! I think we should start calling * Strongbow! Maybe it will 'pop' his bubble? Posted by: Jo on January 31, 2005 01:38 PM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,5115829-103677,00.html Posted by: wv on January 31, 2005 01:54 PMJo, maybe we could just shorten POTUS to POS. Wonderful article, Sally. Very succinct and informative. I do appreciate your clear explanations. Always learning here! Posted by: shylurker on January 31, 2005 01:56 PM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,5115828-103677,00.html Posted by: wv on January 31, 2005 01:58 PM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,4874743-103677,00.html Posted by: wv on January 31, 2005 02:13 PMOMG Jo, the above article from Vietnam in 1967 gave me chills. I had completely forgotten that Vietnam voted during the war. I am so happy and hopeful for the Iraqis, but yesterday I kept looking at their election chart and the war charts and something just doesn't add up. And the rah, rah, rah I keep hearing feels like watching a murder set in a carnival. I don't like it. Posted by: Sally on January 31, 2005 02:23 PMSally, imho, there's a lot of actually 'slaughter' of civilians we are not learning about, and probably never will. Posted by: Jo on January 31, 2005 02:41 PMCaptain Sally, Reid intends to ask them for an Iraq withdrawal plan in his counter-address. Of course, they do have a plan but it's not for withdrawal. They've built those 14 permanent bases and they will be using them. They've also said they'll be in the ME for at least ten years. It'll probably take them that long to find the missing $9 billion, to say nothing of those WMD. Posted by: shylurker on January 31, 2005 02:43 PMWonderful phrasings, great insights Sally! The charade that * (Strongbow) and minions are perpetuating seems deeply mired in christian right rhetoric -- the continued push to effect the rapture, then armageddon. Could it be that the surprise in Wed.'s speech will reveal this madness? or should i say *'s madness?????? And. . .do you think those that give absolute credence to armageddon (the Falwells, et al) are pushing for such "revelations" in the speech? The unsettling voter "successes" in Iraq (dissembling the tower of babel) may somehow be pertinent. It doesn't take much of a stretch to find a connection. karen Posted by: farrout on January 31, 2005 02:55 PMJo, I did notice that little is being reported about the C-130 outside of England. But then again it's not about "me." It all has to be about "Amuraka" or it doesn't exist for us. I did hear Reid was going to say that and I think there is going to be some kind of withdrawal for a "Bush show." We can leave the bases and some troops there and people will still think we pulled out. Look at Afghanistan, before we went there it was a hot bed of terrorism, what do we know now. Troops are still there but how many? Women are still treated badly but how badly? The majority of Afghanistan is not secure but we never hear about it. The son of a friend of mine was just killed there about 4 weeks ago, he and 4 of his buddies, did we hear about that? NO. Iraq will go the same way because Georgie and the neo-cons are bored, they gotta keep moving, keep sucking up countries. Posted by: Sally on January 31, 2005 02:58 PMThank you, Sally, for another wonderful article. I keep hearing this statement from your previous articles: "If he is re-elected, he won't serve more than six months." So perhaps this will be his last State of the Union speech. However, we must be careful what we wish for. We may end up with far worse (i.e, Cheney). I wasn't going to listen to his speech but now I feel compelled to just to hear what Neptune-influenced illusion he's going to try to sell to us. Posted by: Teresa on January 31, 2005 03:06 PMI believe that through the difficult times, moments of joy and hope sustain us. We need to honor and celebrate them, not only for things that affect us personally, or our own country, but things that celebrate our common humanity. In that vein, I wrote this letter to Senator Kerry.
JUST FOR ONE DAY. I voted for you in the last election. Yet today I feel ashamed to be a Democrat. Yesterday, the Iraq election, no matter how imperfect, was a paradigm shift. No matter how you disagree with President Bush on his policies, no matter how difficult the road ahead for the Iraqi people, the feelings of hope and joy and pride in the eyes of the Iraqi people, their incredible courage and determination, was something to be celebrated by all of humanity. I asked myself, "would I have had the courage to WALK 20 miles one way to cast my vote, in fear of being shot at, blown up, or captured and possibly beheaded?" Today was an experience of the heart and soul, not of the intellect. Why couldn't you do it? JUST FOR ONE DAY! Why couldn't you show your humanity, your heart. In your interview with Tim Russert , you sounded like you were on the campaign trail. Same old. Same old. Me, me, me. "My four point plan. . . " And from a strictly political point of view, which seems to be the "walking on eggs" attitude of most politicians, what a missed opportunity to connect with us, the people. I was hoping to see some Democrat leadership yesterday (Sunday) acknowledging the power of what the Iraqi people did. And what a sorely needed morale boost this must have been for our troops. And where were the Democrats(except for a few moments of the two Joes - Biden and Lieberman.) JUST FOR ONE DAY! WHY COULDN'T OUR DEMOCRATIC LEADERS HAVE EXPRESSED BEING HUMAN BEINGS FIRST, AMERICANS SECOND, AND DEMOCRATS THIRD!!! Perhaps if our leadership came from that order of priority, there would be less bickering, less posturing, and better outcomes. Posted by: Jaycee on January 31, 2005 03:09 PMI don't like it either. It reminds me of the same frenzy surrounding the invasion. The so called dancing in the streets. It seems like our country doesn't have an identity. Everything is about Iraq, while our democracy withers. No one really seems to be paying attention to our internal problems in all this drama and crisis. And all the bleeding. Posted by: jm on January 31, 2005 03:17 PMI read in several sources that the Iraqi voters were forced to vote by threats to have their food rations cut off. Voter intimidation in reverse? Posted by: jm on January 31, 2005 03:25 PMSally, Nguyen Van Thieu, former member of Republic of Vietnam, was elected President of South VN in the election I referenced above in 1967. Same pattern in Iraq coming to be. * (Strongbow) will probably spend 1/2 of his SOTUA on Iraq (he did in 2004), and shout "victory" for democracy... and perhaps a "statement" of withdrawal, as Reid and others suggest. But I don't think he will be bringing the troops home (talk is of a buildup)... but what the Amurakans don't 'hear' is what's important to the fascists... so, no matter how, this admin will attempt to CONTROL Iraq/oil etc., troop numbers unknown (about 40,000 'contractors' there now or more)... and I agree with you that they're headed into other countries. (heck, they're already there, with Special Forces in Iran... and Syria? --- Special Forces went into Iraq before Shock 'n Awe, if my recall is correct) Warlords in Afghanistan are happy... opium profits are highest in years... Posted by: Jo on January 31, 2005 03:27 PMJaycee, Your comments: ... the Iraq election, no matter how imperfect, was a paradigm shift. No matter how you disagree with President Bush on his policies, no matter how difficult the road ahead for the Iraqi people, the feelings of hope and joy and pride in the eyes of the Iraqi people, their incredible courage and determination, was something to be celebrated by all of humanity. I asked myself, "would I have had the courage to WALK 20 miles one way to cast my vote, in fear of being shot at, blown up, or captured and possibly beheaded?" Today was an experience of the heart and soul, not of the intellect. --------- What planet are you on, dear? From whence do you derive this picture of fantasy, with regard to what went on yesterday? Do you feel the same about elections here in USA? Process and results don't matter... just be glad we have 'em? HOGWASH, dear. Posted by: Jo on January 31, 2005 03:33 PMHere is an alternative report: http://www.debka.com/article.php?aid=974 Posted by: jm on January 31, 2005 03:38 PMJo "Dear" I guess we're not communicating on the same channel. That's O.K. I'm talking about an energetic shift in consciousness. It happened to us after 911. How long did it last? Yet, the seed was planted. It happened after the tsunami. It doesn't mean we don't still have the same stuff to deal with. But whether change occurs right away or not, it still occurred at some level of our being. Every thought, every word, every action has an effect on consciousness. Listen to the choice of words of the Iraqis. "We now see a light at the end of the tunnel." Before, there was only the tunnel. That doesn't mean immediate change. It's a new concept, a seed thought that has been planted that is now in possibility that wasn't there before. The change may not even come in our lifetimes, but it's a new seed thought for these people. AND YES, THAT IS SOMETHING TO CELEBRATE!!! One of my favorite sayings: "Keep your head in the clouds but watch out for the puddles." Let's not only operate from the puddles! PEACE Posted by: Jaycee on January 31, 2005 03:50 PMThere may be a light at end of the tunnel, unless you're a woman. Women are being stripped of their rights in Iraq now, and under Shiite rule it is expected that this will revert even further. Before the American take-over, they were among the most liberated in the Middle East. Posted by: jm on January 31, 2005 04:05 PM
ORGANIC CONSUMER ASSOCIATION, March 7, 2004 Faculty Evaluator: Liz Burch, Ph.D. (#11) The Media Can Legally Lie CMW REPORT, Spring 2003 ORGANIC CONSUMER ASSOCIATION, March 7, 2004 Faculty Evaluator: Liz Burch, Ph.D. In February 2003, a Florida Court of Appeals unanimously agreed with an Back in December of 1996, Jane Akre and her husband, Steve Wilson, were According to Akre and Wilson, the station was initially very excited about Akre and Wilson sued the Fox station and on August 18, 2000, a Florida jury FOX appealed the case, and on February 14, 2003 the Florida Second District During their appeal, FOX asserted that there are no written rules against UPDATE BY LIANE CASTEN: If we needed any more proof that we now live in an Akre and Wilson won the first legal round. Akre was awarded $425,000 in a What is more appalling are the five major media outlets that filed briefs of “Fairness and balance?” Monsanto hardly demonstrated “fairness and balance” The Amici position was “If upheld by this court, the decision would convert The position implies that First Amendment rights belong to the employers – In addition, the five “friends” referred to FCC policies. The five admit Anyone concerned with media must hear the alarm bells. The Bush FCC, under The next assault: the Fox station then filed a series of motions in a Tampa Akre and her husband feel the stress. “There is no justification for the Indeed. This is what our corporate media, led by such as Rupert Murdoch, Jane Akre and be reached at: jakre@b.... Home | About Us | Nominate A Story | Events | Publications | Search | "Joy of the Moment"... what a load of trash. The premise on which the article was written is, of course, bogus & same-old lies & same-old poisons... same-old same-old... "transformers" Uranus, Neptune & Pluto included. If the olies get away with this, naturally, they will keep doing it. Gaia is severely comprised & will continue to devolve. Mass immune system probs among human becomings? That's Gaia's immune system. Weird itchy blotches, etc? That's Gaia's weird itchy blotches. No healthy radiant (exclude irradiated) water to drink & air to breath among human becomings? That's Gaia's blood & respiration that's breaking down... d/t a handful of rotten infantile bully-boyz who refuse to grow up & those who enable them. Bah! Humbug!! A nasty runny pus-pox on all of 'em. Posted by: JoannaOregon on January 31, 2005 04:22 PM
Have you ever gone through a transformation where your past responses to people, jobs, events just seemed not to be appropriate for a new you but you didn't know exactly how to change and then suddenly you shifted into the new. On a simple level it can be like going from being single to being married, from being childless to being a parent, from being a parent to being a grandparent, all of these events require a shift in thinking and acting. That is what is happening now. The following article is certainly off in timing and like most of us wants to see this happen sooner rather than later, but there are absolutely parts of these predictions that are in the implementation stage right now. As we, the people, begin to realize that our way of life is indeed over much of this will fall into place and it will be the second half of 2005 that the ball toward a gentler humanity will be rolling faster and faster. As I said earlier, both political parties are in serious trouble, more than they realize now and they are just as confused by it as the rest of us. By the time Venus finishes her 100 some odd years transit in 2012 almost all of these things he speaks of will be in place, so "keep smiling, keep shining, knowing you can always count on me for sure, that's what friends are for" Read and enjoy. http://www.kirael.com/KSR/ksr1204.html Posted by: Sally on January 31, 2005 04:31 PMIf you have doubts about Joanna’s post, check out Black Commentator article, excerpts below, followed by link. Allegations are arising that NAPALM was used in Fallujah... and regards the last sentence below “The task of writing a durable Constitution may then begin.” — they don’t need to go to all that trouble, we can ship them our Constitution, we’re not using it anymore anyway. ------------ "The re-election of Bush to a second term on November 4 was immediately followed, starting on November 7, with a massive assault on Falluja, as was expected, and was supplemented with equally murderous attacks on a number of cities and towns across the so-called "Sunni triangle" in Iraq. On that same day, November 7, the puppet government of Prime Minister Iyad Allawi declared that all Iraq except the Kurdish-run areas in the country's north was under martial law, banning all protest rallies and street demonstrations. He also announced that a 24-hour curfew applied in Falluja, to be observed by everyone in the city except the invading U.S. and puppet Iraqi troops, thus making any Fallujan who is not in a residential building a free-fire target. Anticipating this assault, some 200,000 residents of Falluja had fled the city even before the bombings began, along with all the seasoned fighters of the resistance who left behind only a relatively small number of relatively inexperienced guerillas to put up a symbolic fight. The Americans flattened the city nevertheless, raining down munitions of all kinds and sizes, including 2,000-pound and 5,000-pound bombs, on the remaining residents of the city. The Iraqi Red Crescent Society, the national equivalent of the Red Cross, estimated that 6,000 people died during that assault; by December 5 the Americans had ordered the Red Crescent to leave the city altogether. The city hospital was the first building to be destroyed in the bombing, and there are highly credible accounts reporting that napalm was used on the civilian population even though the use of napalm was banned by the United Nations in 1980 and every country in the world, with the single exception of the U.S., has complied with that ban. Other cities were soon to be subjected to similar atrocities. When 200,000 residents fled Falluja, neither the Americans, nor their Iraqi puppets, nor the U.N. agencies, nor any group of non-governmental organizations (NGOs) were there to provide them with relief and shelter; that story is also being repeated in town after town, village after village. Acute malnutrition among young children in Iraq has nearly doubled since the U.S. led an invasion of the country 20 months ago. After the rate of acute malnutrition among children younger than five steadily declined to 4 per cent two years ago, it shot up to 7.7 per cent this year, according to a study conducted by Iraq's Health Ministry in cooperation with Norway's Institute for Applied International Studies and the U.N. Development Program. The great majority of the estimated 100,000 civilians who have died as a result of the U.S. invasion have died as a result of U.S. bombings and other kinds of indiscriminate killings of the U.S. ground forces, but many others have died owing to the erosion of health facilities, scarcity of clean drinking water, diseases spreading owing to the collapse of hygienic conditions of life, collapse of incomes and employment opportunities, and other such consequences of the invasion. The U.S. government and media ignore all such facts and concentrate instead on the bogus "elections" that are to be held as an exercise in "democracy.” It is very doubtful that an occupied country, with war raging across vast swaths of its territory, can actually have what we normally mean by elections. At present, Iraqis are living in a situation where their sovereign rights are held in something of a limbo, which began on June 28, when administrative responsibilities were transferred from the U.S.-led Coalition Provisional Authority and its appointed Iraqi Governing Council to the un-elected Iraqi Interim Government backed by the U.S., which currently serves as a puppet regime. This is the regime that is to organize the much-publicized "elections" in which Iraqis shall be voting to elect the core of a transitional legislature – the 237-member National Assembly. It is the National Assembly that will determine who serves in the executive branch, electing a President and two Deputies of State. Collectively, these three officials would form the state's Presidential Council, and must unanimously select a Prime Minister to replace the present appointee. The task of writing a durable Constitution may then begin." Posted by: Jo on January 31, 2005 05:01 PMOophs, forgot link for above: http://www.blackcommentator.com/123/123_american_descent.html Posted by: Jo on January 31, 2005 05:03 PMThe United States and United Kingdom are determined on a policy which amounts to genocide against the Sunnis of Iraq. That's why it mattered not that the Fallujah assault ensured a Sunni boycott. The Sunni are to be written out of Iraq's future anyway, by military actions of which Fallujah is a signal example. Don't be surprised. It's all right out of the US counterinsurgency handbook. Use mass bombing, artillery, tank and troop attacks to ruthlessly drive the civilian population into refugee camps --thus depriving the guerillas of civilian cover. Encourage or allow the collapse of water, power and gasoline supplies. Provide these --if at all-- in the refugee camps which the resulting chaos will swell still further with civilians. Continuing on from Fallujah (now largely destroyed and deserted), the genocide option was already unfolding even before the staged "elections." January 30 2005 at 11:31AM The American Bradley armoured vehicles on the streets, the United States foot patrols, the old Russian personnel carriers that Saddam Hussein bought on the cheap from the Soviet Union - now dressed up in the dull camouflage paint of the new Iraqi army - the hooded and masked policemen: they do not look like the prelude to an experiment in democracy. They are all waiting for the rivers of blood of which insurgents have warned. But there will be democracy in Iraq. The mortars rained down yesterday morning on the Green Zone where the US and British embassies are located, a "thumpety-thump-thump" that brought the American Apache choppers over the surrounding highways in less than 30 seconds - but the insurgents had disappeared. Then a fierce gun battle broke out in the very centre of Baghdad between Americans and insurgents. Too late again. The gunmen got away. Fantasy attacks before a fantasy election. Many Iraqis do not know the names of the candidates, let alone their policies. The media boys and girls will be expected to play along The media boys and girls will be expected to play along with this. "Transition of power", says the hourly logo on CNN's live coverage of the election, though the poll is for a parliament to write a constitution, and the men who will form a majority within it will have no power. They have no control over their own oil, no authority over the streets of Baghdad, let alone the rest of the country, no workable army or loyal police force. Their only power is that of the American military and its 150 000 soldiers whom we could all see on the main intersections of Baghdad yesterday. The big television networks have been given a list of five polling stations where they will be "allowed" to film. Close inspection of the list shows that four of the five are in Shi'ite Muslim areas - where the polling will probably be high - and one in an upmarket Sunni area, where it will be moderate. The majority Shi'as, oppressed under Hussein, are expected to take a majority in the polling at the expense of the formerly dominant Sunnis. The reality is that much of Iraq has become a free-fire zone In the Karada district, we found three truckloads of youths on Saturday, all brandishing Iraqi flags, all - like the unemployed who have been sticking posters to Baghdad's walls - paid by the government to "advertise" the election. And there was a cameraman from Iraqi state television, of course, which is controlled by Iyad Allawi's "interim" government. The "real" story is outside Baghdad, in the tens of thousands of square kilometres outside the government's control and beyond the sight of independent journalists, especially in the four Sunni Muslim provinces which are at the heart of Iraq's insurrection. Right up to the election hour, US jets were continuing to bomb "terrorist targets", the latest in the city of Ramadi, which - although US President George Bush and Britain's Prime Minister Tony Blair do not say so - is now in the hands of the insurgents as surely as Fallujah was before the Americans destroyed it. Every month since Allawi, the former CIA agent, was appointed premier, American air strikes on Iraq have been increasing exponentially. There are no "embedded" reporters on the giant American air base at Qatar or aboard the US carriers in the Gulf from which these ever increasing and ever more lethal sorties are being flown. They go unrecorded, unreported, part of the "fantasy" war which is all too real to the victims but hidden from us journalists. The reality is that much of Iraq has become a free-fire zone (for reference, see under "Vietnam") and the Americans are conducting this secret war as efficiently and as ruthlessly as they conducted their earlier bombing campaign against Iraq between 1991 and 2003, an air raid a day, or two raids, or three. Then they were attacking Hussein's "military targets" in Iraq. Now they are attacking "foreign terrorist targets" or "anti-Iraqi forces": I especially like this one, since the foreigners involved in this violence happen in reality to be Americans who are mostly attacking Iraqis. Yes, I know how it's all going to be played out. Iraqis bravely vote despite the bloodcurdling threats of the enemies of democracy. At last, the US and British policies have reached fruition. A real and functioning democracy will be in place so the occupiers can leave soon. Or next year. Or in a decade or so. Merely to hold these elections - an act of folly in the eyes of so many Iraqis - will be a "success". The Shi'as will vote en masse, the Sunnis will largely abstain. Shi'a Muslim power will be enshrined for the first time in an Arab country. And then the manipulation will begin and the claims of fraud and the admissions that the elections might be "flawed" in some areas. But we'll go on saying "democracy" and "freedom" over and over again, the insurgency will continue and grow more violent, and the Iraqis will go on dying. But there will be democracy in Iraq. Iraq closed its borders and imposed stringent security on Saturday but could not stop insurgent strikes that killed at least 19 people in the final hours before the country's election. Cities were like ghost towns as most of the population waited nervously at home to see if it would be safe enough to take part in the first election since the ousting of Hussein by the US-led forces in April 2003. A rocket hit the US embassy inside Baghdad's fortified Green Zone late on Saturday, killing two people and wounding at least four, a diplomatic source said. A suicide bomber in Khanaqin killed eight people, and nine police, soldiers and civilians died in other attacks across the country. Iraq's land borders and Baghdad airport have been closed for the election weekend as authorities sought to counter threats by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, who has replaced Hussein as Iraq's most feared man, to wreck the election. - Foreign Service, Sapa-AP and Reuters This article was originally published on page 1 of The Sunday Independent on January 30, 2005
Wow Sal, well I am holding tight. That is a wonderful letter Jaycee, and so absolutely right! As for Dean, I still get the feeling that the long knives are out to get him, especially now that a number of people are getting behind Donny Fowler. I think, at the end of the day, they are too afraid to have someone like Dean, because, then they and the party would be committed to change and I fear they are paralyzed into a "the way things were" frame of mind. For me, not giving Dean the DNC chair, will signal that I too need to make a change, and the old "I’ve always been a democrat” will have to be kicked out of my mind. I will write Dean urging the 3rd party others have been suggesting for some months now. I think it may take a move such as this to wake the dinos up, a sort of use it or lose it approach. And they will have to work like the Dickens to get my support back for I am INSULTED that I and others like me have been so shabbily treated by the party. And the next time they pat us all on the head and say, "Now, now, you know we have to do this to get more votes, and will, so you all will just have to swallow your principles one more time", I may not be able to resist the urge to bite that hand, hard. http://uscountvotes.org/ucvAnalysis/US/USCountVotes_Re_Mitofsky-Edison.pdf Prominent Statisticians Refute 'Explanation' of 2004 U.S. Exit Poll Discrepancies in New Edison/Mitofsky Report and Urge Investigation of U.S. Presidential Election Results. President Bush won November's election by 2.5% yet exit polls showed Kerry leading by 3%. Which was correct? "There are statistical indications that a systematic, nationwide shift of 5.5% of the vote may have occurred, and that we'll never get to the bottom of this, unless we gather the data we need for mathematical analysis and open, robust scientific debate.", says Bruce O'Dell, USCountVotes' Vice President. The study, "Response to Edison/Mitofsky Election System 2004 Report", was co-authored by a diverse group of professors and academicians specializing in statistics and mathematics affiliated with University of Notre Dame, University of Pennsylvania, University of Utah, Cornell University, University of Wisconsin, Southern Methodist University, Case Western Reserve University and Temple University. Their study does not support claims made by Edison Media Research and Mitofsky International that exit poll errors were to blame for the unprecedented 5.5% discrepancy between exit polls and official 2004 election results. According to this analysis by a group of senior statisticians, the new data just released by the exit-pollsters shows that the possibility that the overall vote count was substantially corrupted must be taken seriously. "Now we have statistical evidence that these reports were the tip of a national iceberg. The hypothesis that the discrepancy between the exit polls and election results is due to errors in the official election tally is a coherent theory that must be explored," said statistician Josh Mitteldorf. Their paper titled "Response to Edison/Mitofsky Election System 2004 Report" notes that the Edison/Mitofsky report offers no evidence to support their conclusion that Kerry voters "participated in the exit polls at a higher rate than Bush voters". In fact, the data provided in the Edison/Mitofsky report suggests that the opposite may have been true: Bush strongholds had slightly higher response rates than Kerry strongholds. More... Posted by: Pat C on January 31, 2005 05:29 PMI shore did like that article on Master Kirael, Sally, and I do think that that's where we are headed, but by gosh if it's gonna be in 2005, then a WHOLE lotta stuff has to still happen first. Here's some info. on the British plane:http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=iraq_war&Number=293331319#Post293331319 Just heard the Senator Clinton collapsed while giving a speech, more to come . . . . CNN has it breaking. Posted by: Laurie on January 31, 2005 06:16 PMAnother great article Sally - Thanks!!! I can only hope we'll see several endings soon. I caught CNN Friday talking about Iran and their nuclear program. Things are getting very scary indeed. * lied about Iraq's WMD - but people assume Iran is a real threat?? How does that make sense? Guess Wolf Blitzer never heard that old saying "fool me once - shame on you, fool me twice - shame on me". There is no news on TV - only propaganda. Look at what a stink they made about the Chinese illegal aliens? BTW - vcz - those pictures U.S. soldiers posted of corpses with the horrible titles were so disturbing. I could only look at one photo. What has hapened to our forces? (Our country?) They seem beyond evil! (Pat?) the information about Monsanto seeds buying the organic seed company - and now Iraqis are forbidden from saving their seeds from one year to the next - man - that is sooo scary. I also found this article: http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0115-04.htm German Giant Taking Over American Water Supply Sally - I just read the article you linked to "Master Kirael’s Predictions for 2005". Just what I needed to hear - a very hopeful message. You can already see this happening on some levels. I live in West Lafayette, Indiana - not exactly a hotbed of new-age spirtualism - but an old record / book store on the Purdue campus now also has a huge crystal / rock shop. An Indianapolis plastic surgeon has started a dairy selling organic, grass-fed, non-homogonized milk and it is selling like crazy for $2.50 a quart!! More local farmers are using non-oil-based / natural fertiliizers and pesticides. It does seem like fundamentalist Christianity / Islam, etc are making a last gasp - before dying? It's sad because Jesus' message is one of love and non-judgement - yet Christianity has never seemd to be about that very much...... oh well. I really wish those people with "Support Our Troops" on the back of their SUVs could see the photos our soldiers are posting on the web. Posted by: SuzieLiberal on January 31, 2005 06:51 PMHillary Clinton collapses during appearance in Buffalo CAROLYN THOMPSON, Associated Press Writer Monday, January 31, 2005 (01-31) 10:46 PST BUFFALO, N.Y. (AP) -- Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton collapsed Monday during a speech on Social Security, moments after complaining about a stomach virus. "She fainted after not feeling well, got medical attention and is proceeding with her planned schedule," according to a statement released by her office in Washington. Colleen DiPirro, president of the Amherst Chamber of Commerce, told WBEN-AM radio that Clinton told the crowd she was feeling weak and had had a stomach virus. Clinton started to speak then collapsed, DiPirro told the radio station. Clinton, 57, was smiling when she walked out of the private club where she had collapsed, the club's general manager said. "I saw her walk out the door by herself, she smiled and said `thank you'," said Saturn Club general manager Vincent Tracy. Later Monday, she arrived at a Catholic college where she was to speak about health care. Several hundred people were waiting to hear that address. There were also dozens of anti-abortion protesters waiting at the college. In September, Clinton's 58-year-old husband underwent quadruple bypass surgery. During an earlier editorial board meeting Monday at The Buffalo News, Clinton complained about suffering from a flu-like bug that affected several of her staff members during a weekend retreat in Westchester County, where she lives. Posted by: Judi Gem on January 31, 2005 06:54 PMI had an uncomfortable reaction to Jaycee's letter. I don't buy it. bhakti - really makes me suspicious when it sounds so much like the coverage the vietnam elections got in 1967. Thanks for posting that Jo!!! History really can put things in perspective. Also - remember all the grief they gave Dean when he said Americans weren't safer even though they captured Sadam? (Yet - he was on the mark as far as I can tell???) I don't think we all need to be cheerleaders for * - I mean he has Faux, MSNBC, CNN, ABC, and sometimes CBS and PBS. How much do you think all that favorable press costs anyway? I'll shut up now - I'm on my rant wave again..... Home sick and bored...... Posted by: SuzieLiberal on January 31, 2005 07:16 PMwow, this forum is cooking. loved the link to kirael sally. that's how i feel. enough already. this violence is not only an abomination it's worse. it is t e d i o u s !!! jo & jaycee, i've bridged the divide! now that there is a precedent for elections in iraq, how about a referendum (just like CA) on the question: should the US leave now? and should the US bases be disbanded (the 12 we're building)? and finally, Pat C. oh yeah. now it starts. any forensic accounting of the elections by statisticians will show what these eminent folks show and, as more becomes available, much greater absurdities about the * victory. the repukes can deny this all day long which means they deny the very foundations of science. things are looking up. Posted by: mike on January 31, 2005 07:35 PMSuzie Liberal, "the thinning" is part of a subplot in a sci-fi book i've been writing. Though it's taking shape, it's been a long ten years since i began it. If ever it should be published, i'll definitely post the good news here. In response to voter turnout in Iraq. Of course it's a sham -- though the temptation to believe the propaganda is compelling. Were it that the Iraqi people were helped but that is NOT the case. Even the word "insurgent" -- I believe Judy Gemini expressed this -- is not only misleading, it's the same corrupted phrasing used time and time again by facist administrations plotting their ill-conceived expansions of power. Anybody here noticing the change in expression farrout - hey - I'd like to buy that book when you finish it - sounds really good!!! Posted by: SuzieLiberal on January 31, 2005 08:16 PMMike, Anyone reading your scenario would be crazy not to support it! But if you think those fascists will follow through on it, why then bhakti has a bridge she'll sell you! But if I ruled the world, I'd appoint you Minister of Peace, 'cause you've got the right idea. It was Sistani who demanded the elections... and he wanted them last year, before the US elections. This admin didn't want them at all and postponed them til after Nov. 2... Sistani expects that the result of the elections, and the newly formed gov't will get the occupiers out. Let's hope the US sees this as an opportunity to declare victory and exit. If the Neocons have their way though (and count * among them, he and Jeb and Poppy are charter members), they will declare a victory and move on... taking the focus of Iraq with them (via the corpofascist media) onto, as Sally says above, "suck up other countries"... these Neocons are not interested in democracy, witness the destruction of same here at home. In fact, they invaded Iraq because of so-called WMD... then regime change... and even after capturing Sadaam, they refused to go, saying they were 'spreading democracy'... they're spreading alright, but we all have to walk carefully and in hip boots lest we step into the manure they're spreading. Mike, I realize you are aware of this, as I am... but we can hope, can't we. Yet, I remain reality- based, as I am sure you do. And I share your sentiments re the violence... enough is enough... 'course it was enough before it started Mar 2003 (but it didn't start then, either did it? 12 years of sanctions, no fly zones... 50% of the population under the age of 15... many suffering from malnutrition.... but it didn't start then either, did it? No, long, long before that) Namaste Posted by: Jo on January 31, 2005 08:55 PMThis news has been online all morning, but some may not have seen it, and it's another talking point against Gonzales and Chertoff: Indefinite Guantanmo Detentions Ruled Unconstitutional http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/1/31/113836/526 Posted by: Jo on January 31, 2005 09:02 PMI can see that there is a difference of opinion re: the Iraquis voting; I was glad to see it, something most of them have never been able to do, And, I was glad, very glad to see them do it relatively safely. Those people have been through enough without being blown up for something we, in this country, can do safely. At least physically, for we all know, with this last election and, our so called "officials" voting our rights away, that danger can impinge on more than the physical. At the same time, it made me ill, that once again ***hco was able to crow and cry victory. The only thing which kept me sane was the predictions by Sally and Nancy that he would have a squeaker for the next few months before the big iron ball started to hit him upside the head. And if the Iraquis managed to conquer their fears, get out and vote, and have a moment of jubilation, I can't begrudge them that, even if the jerk in the WH gets to hoop and holler. He'll get his soon enough, and I hope the Iraquis are able to build some type of life for themselves after the horrors they've been through with first, Saddam, and then the chimp. Also, I truly wish there was courage, real, deep down, not afraid I might lose and am going to tell the truth anyway and stand up for what I believe in, courage from our leaders. For the most part I haven't seen it in any great quantity enough to make a difference. There have been a few, and everyone here knows who they are, but mostly we've been sold down the river. And any day that someone, or many of them, have a moment of relief I say, God Bless them, or you. Nancy, based on your last couple of articles, is this like the high point of the year for the admin? Posted by: Teresa on January 31, 2005 09:22 PMI posted last thread about the CCR filing this week to add Gonzales name to the suit they have filed in Germany to bring Rummy et al up for war crimes. Now comes a kossack to report that papers were filed this a.m. "CCR filed new documents on January 31, 2005, with the German Federal Prosecutor looking into war crimes charges against high-ranking U.S. officials including Donald Rumsfeld: one includes new evidence that the Fay investigation into Abu Ghraib protected Administration officials - it is a comprehensive and shocking opinion by Scott Horton, ... second is a letter that details how Attorney General nominee Alberto Gonzales's testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee confirms his role as complicit in the torture and abuse of detainees in Abu Ghraib and elsewhere in Iraq." This diary has a ton of info which seems to be documented. Highly recommend you check it out: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/1/31/131254/024 Posted by: Jo on January 31, 2005 09:29 PMThe "shift" isn't going to happen in the time frame the gentleman indicated. I think he is just hopeful that it will be this year, but it is happening, it will just take 8 years to completely unfold. I don't know that I agree with our government "fearing the people" but I found this on Daily Kos and it's a very positive thing that the government is waking up to the people.
quote from a Kos poster "Once upon a time, party officials feared NARAL, they feared the unions, they feared the Sierra Club, they feared trial lawyers, they feared NOW, they feared the NAACP, they feared Latino groups, and so on. For the first time, it looks like they're starting to fear people, not special interest groups." This is a beginning Astrologically, 2007 is going to be doozy hurtin Jaycee, in your letter above you said that you voted for Kerry. I don't think you did. I think you were dishonest in your letter to Kerry. I believe you are the 'Jayce' that posts on another board that I post on frequently. In fact you just recently posted a statement (which I pasted below) in full support of the *ush adminisration. I wonder what was the point of your letter to Kerry, if in fact you did send such a letter to him? If he's as 'self seeking' as you declare, I don't think he'll care what you think. "Well, we have to agree to disagree(()). I have seen no evidence of lies from this + ( ) To those of us with family who have been betrayed or harmed by John Kerry, what matters is keeping the insanely self-seeking from a position of trust or responsibility where he can do more intense harm. And right now, imho, the Democrats' talent pool in the national security side is really, really, really weak. Any group that would propose Tony Lake, David Aaron or who has Sandy Berger as the top drawer in their national security talent pool... has a serious problem finding quality candidates. I totally support the Bush doctrine, and believe that a president has every right to choose a SoS who will work toward implementing his goals, diplomatically, through the restructure of Foggy Bottom, and militarily." so, I guess we went from the "Oil for Food" program to the "Vote for Food" program: http://www.dahrjamailiraq.com/hard_news/archives/hard_news/000192.php Posted by: Peg on February 1, 2005 12:21 AMYes, Peg, you're correct, I guess. We've gone from Oil for Food to Vote for Food and left many children behind. Posted by: shylurker on February 1, 2005 12:46 AMhttp://www.lawandpolitics.blogspot.com/ Before I get to the substance of this post, I want to offer two words of advice – one to anti-war Democrats, and one to pro-war Republicans. To the anti-war Dems first (I’m considering abandoning the terms “left” and “right”), I would caution them to avoid knee-jerk rejection of all potentially good news just because of the justified animosity toward people like Bush or Glenn Reynolds. The elections yesterday were important and are worthy of praise – as is the courage of the Iraqis who faced death to vote. As much as I reject Bush, I’m not going to root for failure just to spite him, and neither should you. If we fail, and if this government fails, then the result will be an all-out slaughter, complete with genocide and ethnic cleansing right in the heart of an already unstable region. That is the reality of failure. And if you’re silently rooting for that reality, you need to take a step back and put things in perspective. IMHO- I think this guy is really good. The article is much too long to post here but I would certainly recommend reading the rest. Posted by: abilene on February 1, 2005 01:44 AMThere is no Iraqi government to fail. This is colonization by the USA. If it succeeds the PNAC plan of perpetual war will be in effect. Is that what you really want? I wonder how many excuses will be used if the new Iraqi government actually asked the U.S. to leave? Posted by: Teresa on February 1, 2005 02:31 AMJust listening to an analysis...The PNAC aim is to destroy Iraq. Scott Ritter, former weapons inspector. Posted by: jm on February 1, 2005 02:55 AMNEW REPORT BY NATION'S PROMINENT STATISTICIANS AND VOTE-ANALYSIS EXPERTS REFUTES EDISON/MITOFSKY `EXPLANATION' FOR EXIT POLL DISCREPANCY, URGES INVESTIGATION OF US PREZ ELECTION I feel like shouting from the mountaintop to everyone: PLEASE DON'T FALL FOR THIS! Posted by: jm on February 1, 2005 03:19 AM
http://207.44.245.159/article7914.htm Posted by: wv on February 1, 2005 03:19 AMTo: JM. Don't fall for what? And why not? Tnx. Posted by: shylurker on February 1, 2005 03:21 AMLast post referring to Iraqi election sham. Posted by: jm on February 1, 2005 03:21 AMTo: JM. You mean Ritter's claim that it's part of a PNAC scheme? Tnx. Posted by: shylurker on February 1, 2005 03:26 AMDon't fall for the pretense that this is bringing Democracy to the Middle East. We will be sucked dry of our resources, our futures, and our life force if we don't stop these PNAC people. Or at least unify and align ourselves with the forces that will stop them. We should not be timid now. Posted by: jm on February 1, 2005 03:26 AMRight on, JM!!!!! I'm widcha, baby! And here's a little more fuel for the fire (from a Scottish MP via DU): "They're a farce. They're rigged. An election held under foreign military occupation is always, by definition, utterly flawed. But one which is held in the kind of conditions in which this one is being held is flawed beyond redemption. The facts are that it is simply impossible to hold an election when there is a full-scale war going on between the occupying armies and the resistance forces. The Sunni Muslim population, which if you add the Sunni Kurds and the Sunni Arabs together, is some 40% of the population, are deeply anxious about the way in which the occupying forces are deliberately trying to divide the country along confessional lines. The Sunni Arab population has boycotted the election almost in their entirety. The Iraqis living outside for whom security was not an issue, three quarters of them have voted with their feet and boycotted the election. Less than a quarter of the eligible voters have registered to vote and fewer still have cast their votes. So, this is a festival, a farce that's been held to validate the American-British invasion and occupation of Iraq. But it will not validate it, neither in the eyes of the world opinion, nor, more importantly, in the eyes of those Iraqis who are resisting the foreign occupation and the war will go on, I'm sorry to say." More: http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/01/31/151... Posted by: shylurker on February 1, 2005 03:31 AMTO WHOEVER POSTED THIS WITHOUT A SIGNATURE:
I’ve answered this same question before. NO, I am not “Jayce” who posts on another board, but I guess you’ve already made up your mind, so I don’t think you’ll believe anything I say. I find it sad that differences of opinion are met with condescension and cynicism. Isn’t there enough of that elsewhere? I think it may be time for me to lurk for a while. I’m not here to play games. Just to offer another perspective. PEACE Posted by: Jaycee on February 1, 2005 03:36 AMIt's not a guess that this part of the PNAC scheme. You can go to the official website and read their plans clearly stated. I think that's the good part. There is no secrecy. The bad part is that the masses are complying. When even Progressives are getting caught up in the false euphoria of this totally fake election, I, the eternal optimist, get a little worried. I cannot imagine the Iraqi Peoples IN Iraq being able to vote. Any "votes" in that violent sham called an "election" were made by expats... & neocons with sundry torturers. Posted by: JoannaOregon on February 1, 2005 03:41 AMspeaking as the 'Minister of Peace' i pronounce this Sistani independence day. just kidding! jo, i'm quite aware that we'll never have that referendum. on the other hand, you mentioned Sistani's plans. he is the true 'wise man' here. i'm sure he just can't stand the occupation but he knows we'll leave and he and the shia will dominate their sector. ironically, it could be Sistani who calms things down and even brings a more positive governnment to iran. he is clever by biding his time. he's letting us get rid of a good portion of the sunni resistance. clever man. Posted by: mike on February 1, 2005 03:44 AMYeah, it would be a miracle Joanna O, would it not? oh, ms. shylurker, here is someting you'll really like. it's here: http://www.dailykos.com/ U.S. Encouraged by Vietnam Vote : by Peter Grose, Special to the New York Times (9/4/1967: p. 2) WASHINGTON, Sept. 3-- United States officials were surprised and heartened today at the size of turnout in South Vietnam's presidential election despite a Vietcong terrorist campaign to disrupt the voting. According to reports from Saigon, 83 per cent of the 5.85 million registered voters cast their ballots yesterday. Many of them risked reprisals threatened by the Vietcong. The size of the popular vote and the inability of the Vietcong to destroy the election machinery were the two salient facts in a preliminary assessment of the nation election based on the incomplete returns reaching here. Thanks, Mr. Mike. Deja vu again and again and again. Last Nov 2nd too. My head hurts. Think I'll go under the bed for a nice languid swim in Swan Lake. (Hey! Gimme a little credit. I didn't say "Think I'll go dive under the bed . . .." Posted by: shylurker on February 1, 2005 03:58 AMMike, If we would allow them to rule themselves, I believe Sistani could facilitate bringing about a government. In April of 2003 he told the Shia to remain calm. Last summer when Sadr rebelled, he told them to be steadfast and calm. He told them Friday to go to the polls, it was their religious duty. Some believe he could just as well command them to fight the occupiers. Fisk is saying since they were the majority going to the polls, they had better be the winners, the majority in the votes. Problem is they didn't know who they were voting for. .. secret candidates and all that. If Negroponte produces a different result, that is a non Shia majority, there will be blood in the streets, imo... My heart aches for the Iraqis. They have suffered so long and so much. I see nothing wrong with a Sistani Day, oh Minister of Peace! Posted by: Jo on February 1, 2005 03:59 AMbusy night. after reading the unsigned post, i actually bothered to go back and read the Jaycee letter to john kerry. i'm not in a position to talk about who posts here and there. i must say, jaycee that your letter to kerry is among the most disingenuous prose i've seen for a good while. further, i will say that it is extremely unlikely that you voted for kerry unless it was by mistake (but how would you know without a paper trail). read the post from 1967 above. it's the same old, same old and kerry knows it because he's been through it before. and, BTW, don't imply that anybody is not being a "HUMAN BEING." i don't expect uniformity at any forum. however, your letter can't pass by without comment. you wrote it, you reap the rewards. Posted by: mike on February 1, 2005 04:06 AMMore deja vu: ARTIST: Buffalo Springfield There's something happening here There's battle lines being drawn What a field-day for the heat Paranoia strikes deep We better stop, hey, what's that sound Oh, and I should add: Go out and do something about it. Posted by: shylurker on February 1, 2005 04:37 AMNice article, Sally!! It inspired me to take a look at that SoU chart. The thing I find most striking is the Sun Neptune conjunction in the chart AND the Sun in the chart exactly on Inaugural Neptune. This will be a moment to really see that Inaugural Neptune in action. But I think Bush will get some good reviews for his speech: transiting Venus is exactly conjunct Inaugural Sun, and Jupiter is on his natal Jupiter. We will just have to live through February with him strutting around like a peacock thinking he has saved Iraq. The sh*t won't hit the fan til Uranus starts its many transits in late March and April. Posted by: Nancy on February 1, 2005 04:53 AMI went back & re-read Jaycee's letter to Kerry, too. She has a point. Out of horror and tragedy, some good can happen. Whatever else happens, the Iraquis got a taste of Democracy. Although the U.S. is in control, there is the possibility that the Iraquis will unite against us and come to some balance among themselves (or else divide like Yugoslavia did). I hate the fact that *sh is being given any kind of credit for this, but the expense of the war will catch up with him/us when the economy fails. He went about it in the most incompetent, deceitful way possible; I am so sorry for the violence, death, injury, loss, and trauma that were caused, but, even though we went to Iraq in the wrong way and for the wrong reasons, good can come out of it. I also understand Jaycee's feelings toward Kerry, which actually have been voiced on this board many times. I found a lot to admire about Kerry (as well as his wife) and know he would have been far superior to what we have now, but, maybe because of his Saturn rising or Venus in Scorpio, he keeps much inside and, in doing so, he somewhat let his supporters down. Although we cannot definitively prove voter fraud (Yet), there is a lot more Kerry could have said. I didn't watch him on Meet the Press, but perhaps he could have used it as a better vehicle. Yet, it must have been a heck of a task to pull himself together after the loss. He really worked hard for these last 2 right down to the wire. I also said I was going to give a thoughtful answer to Jo's post of Juan Cole's analysis of Israel. I would just like to say that it is fine to criticize any government as all of them deserve to be held to a high standard and accountable for their actions. Israel certainly should be evaluated and held accountable, as should Hamas and the PLO. And, again, although it is difficult to understand anti-semitism unless you are Jewish and have experienced it first hand, history has taught us how destructive it can be. The Russian government has recently been asked to consider outlawing all Jewish organizations for their "extremism" which was said to "provoke" anti-Semitism, and Jews in France tell me they don't admit to being Jewish. I don't have to tell anyone here that aware and conscious people, like those on this board, can separate criticism of Israel from anti-Semitism but so many others will use it as an excuse to inflame their own fears and bigotry. Posted by: Sharon on February 1, 2005 05:21 AMhttp://www.planetpals.com/IKC/peacedictionary.html Sidi Find it in whatever language you prefer, but do find it. http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/WO0502/S00036.htm Statisticians Refute 'Explanation' of Exit Poll - Prominent Statisticians Refute 'Explanation' of 2004 U.S. Exit Poll "There are statistical indications that a systematic, nationwide shift of 5.5% The study, “Response to Edison/Mitofsky Election System 2004 Report”, was According to this analysis by a group of senior statisticians, the new data just Their paper titled "Response to Edison/Mitofsky Election System 2004 Report" notes that the Edison/Mitofsky report offers no evidence to support their conclusion that Kerry voters “participated in the exit polls at a higher rate than Bush voters”. In fact, the data provided in the Edison/Mitofsky report suggests that the opposite may have been true: Bush strongholds had slightly higher response rates than Kerry strongholds. The statisticians go on to note that precincts with hand-counted paper ballots showed no statistical discrepancy between the exit polls and the official results, but for other voting technologies, the overall discrepancy was far larger than the polls’ margin of error. The pollsters at Edison/Mitofsky agreed that their 2004 exit polls, for whatever reason, had the poorest accuracy in at least twenty years. USCountVotes, a nonprofit, non-partisan Utah corporation was founded in December The statisticians' study is available online at: http://uscountvotes.org/ucvAnalysis/US/USCountVotes_Re_Mitofsky-Edison.pdf Posted by: vcz on February 1, 2005 06:06 AMWonderful work, vcz! Amazing how the exit polls for our election didn't work, but exit polls for other elections do work. My word! Am I missing something here? Posted by: shylurker on February 1, 2005 06:25 AMGood catch Nancy and I have no doubt that he will play well to the "select' that attended his Inaugural, he certainly narrowed it down to a "precious few" of his faithful and the faithful could believe him to be inspired, but as to "the people" of America that the State of the Union is supposed to be addressed to, I look at the US Chart and I don't see the majority of the people giving him any more of a bounce than they did on Inaugural day. Except for the fact that Sun/Neptune conj. is in a trine to the US Saturn there isn't much there except inconjuncts. The "making someone angry" to me is that Mars/Asc/Des exact square. There will be, of course, a lot of chest beating over the Iraq vote and he should hope for the 2nd to come soon. There are already stories coming out of Iraq that getting food vouchers was tied to coming out and voting, like I said, these people were dead if they did and dead if they didn't. Didn't someone post here and accuse Kerry of not being compassionate? I think refusing people food vouchers unless they vote might smack of a lack of compassion from this government. A lot of countries, including some English Lords are calling this election a fraud. Golly, and they didn't even have Diebold. But they voted even if forced and this just might infuse the Iraqi's with a firm resolve to govern themselves, they may even decide they don't want their oil going to certain countries. All that Neptune kind of makes me feel sick already. Oh lord, do you think we will have to crown him king of kings on Thursday? You are right though, the party faithful will swoon. Posted by: Sally on February 1, 2005 07:13 AMInteresting take on the inking of the fingers: http://www.wsws.org/articles/2005/jan2005/iraq-j31.shtml "There is evidence of direct intimidation of Iraqis by the US military in the course of election day. American soldiers were reported going through the city of Mosul, largely Sunni-populated and a center of insurgent resistance, and seeking out Iraqi non-voters, who could easily be identified by the absence of a semi-permanent ink stain on the thumb. Any Iraqi without such proof of voting was subjected to questioning as to why he had not voted—and no doubt, had his name entered on US intelligence lists of suspected supporters of the resistance, targeted for future arrest or attack. More fundamentally, the entire election process is fatally tainted by the US military occupation. The regime that conducted the vote was appointed by the US occupation authorities, with the United Nations giving its rubber-stamp approval. The timing and procedures for the election were determined by US officials. And it was President Bush who decided earlier this month to reject the pleas of a majority of the Iraqi cabinet and oppose any postponement of the vote so as to allow for increased Sunni participation." One of the main reasons for the election was that with the new constitution the American corporations can do their business tax free and without any regulation. The perfect corporate state. Posted by: jm on February 1, 2005 10:08 AM
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/printer_013105A.shtml Posted by: wv on February 1, 2005 01:23 PM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/cartoons/0,7371,337484,00.html Posted by: wv on February 1, 2005 01:26 PM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,5116709-103677,00.html Posted by: wv on February 1, 2005 02:07 PM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,5116663-114659,00.html Posted by: wv on February 1, 2005 02:19 PMAnti-Semitism is a form of bigotry... bigotry appears in many forms. Blacks in the South experience it everyday in a sometimes blatant way (as do Blacks in the North, in a more subtle manner). They can't "hide" their identity, though. Women experience it frequently, some in their own families. New Agers --- wiccans, astrologers --- experience it directly, IF they expose themselves. Liberals certainly experience it these days. Southern males (and females) experience it (they’re ‘all’ rednecks, don’tcha know... ‘course there are some rednecks in Michigan and... but they don’t count). However, there are no restraints placed on dialog about these subjects, even though discussion dredges up deep-seated negative feelings. A cabal of neo-cons entered the White House in January of 2001. They are white males, most of whom served with Reagan (Iran-Contra), a few with Nixon. They are savvy and experienced in failed attempts to carry out their goals ("Watergate" will not happen again" is one of their favorite mantras... what they mean is "no tapes", and shred, shred, shred.) Most politicos were not aware of them early on... the few brave souls who began to write about them were attacked as anti-Semitic, as many neo-cons happen also to be Jewish. Some have very close ties with the Likkud party of Israel, but we can't mention that either. When Europeans came to this country they pushed Native Americans back, just a little at first, claiming they "didn't feel safe", surrounded by all those healthy free-spirited brown skinned pagan folks. 'Course these same folks welcomed them when they arrived and helped them survive until they could put in their own crops. Later we would be told that these Europeans came to the new world to escape 'persecution' of a religious nature. (Some came for the free land of course, maybe most.) Europeans pushed the Natives back all the way... and those who settled in the South felt "unsafe" with all the strong Black males they had imported to create their wealth on the land they had appropriated. They would lynch a few every now and then, just to keep them aware and convert the rest to xtains, to keep them under the thumb of the Black churches. And they would 'appropriate' their women whenever they wanted. The 'plantation' concept is still with us. I'm not referring to the frequent use of that label in places like Hilton Head, S.C. --- I'm talking about what is moving across the globe --- the (plantation) notion that a few can live off the backs of the many. Those who desire this lifestyle are not limited to the "rich and the famous" --- they include you and me. My computer was built in a Chinese sweatshop, the toys my grandchildren got for Christmas were not made here, but in sweatshops --- the sweats I am wearing were made in a sweatshop! The cheap oil (yes, it's cheap compared to what Europeans pay) that becomes petrol to run my car to see my family comes from another country. The invasion of Iraq was wrong. War is an excuse to get what you don't have. The alternative to war/conflict is dialog. The opposite of war is not 'peace' --- it is life... Dialog very often requires emotional pain, even among domestic partners. Attachment to labels creates suffering. Dialog --- honest, tolerant dialog --- can create resolution... but since we ALL carry labels and attachment to them, we make ourselves vulnerable. Without dialog, unresolved conflict, there is war. Some think the absence of dialog about matters of conflict results in 'peace' --- "don't rock the boat" kind of attitude. My Libra Moon and its mutual reception to natal Venus incline me to please others, avoid ugliness of any kind. Most of my life has been spent trying to 'hide' my identity from those who are bigots. But Uranus is oriental in my chart, and my 11th house overflowth with planets and asteroids. There is constant conflict in my being! Between “not rocking the boat” and “rattling the cage”! Detachment is one of my life's lessons. It's taken me decades to figure out, become conscious of, from what I should be 'detaching'... Of course it’s my own labels, my own ‘attachments’ — detachment doesn’t mean dishonor... though. I can be proud of my Southern heritage and at the same time acknowledge the bigotry of it. I can be patriotic, willing to die for liberty and still fault my government for invading Iraq, for remaining there these last two years — even if they tell me I’m “safer”, they’re ensuring my oil supply, they’re protecting the petrol dollar, they’re killing the ‘terrorists’... they’re preventing the destruction of our way of life. JM had a poignant post last thread. Here’s the last of it, which strikes a chord for me personally: “We need to clarify our thinking, get in touch with our autonomy, and learn to govern ourselves more effectively. That's where the Internet comes in... the free public forum of our time...where we police ourselves, and work out are differences. We love and need this forum so much that we automatically reach peaceful agreements. It will spread.” Those words can be extrapolated to “we love and need this planet so much that we must reach peaceful agreements.” If we can’t dialog here, without it being construed as “fighting” — WHERE can we? If we can’t use “words” to resolve conflict, then “s/words” — or their modern day equivalent — will be used.
Jo, you are reading my mind. I do not believe the legitimacy of the Iraqui elections because I do not believe in the legitimacy of the US elections. The rest is all about division, not unity. Let the phony pie in the sky propagandists cowards go back into their hidey holes. Haven't we all learned that when we are 'nice' to Fundies they just stab your back anyway? I'm tired of being 'nice'. That's why the country is where we are now. Let Jaysus * do it. He's our Big Daddy, we are 10 years olds needing to be saved and led by the nose. Jo and all, just Be Yourself. I love when you are authentic. It resonates Posted by: bhakti on February 1, 2005 03:05 PM
http://www.clermontyellow.accountsupport.com/flash/UntilThen.swf Posted by: wv on February 1, 2005 03:18 PMWV, I recommend the read you linked at 2:19 pm above and add that the author Sami Ramadani was a political refugee from Saddam Hussein's regime and is a senior lecturer at London Metropolitan University --- so he should know whereof he speaks TWO WOLVES An old Cherokee is teaching his grandson about life.
The other is good. He is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, This same fight is going on inside you, The grandson thought about it for a minute For those of you who aren’t aware of the Christian Right agenda, Bill Moyers presents a succinct summary. 2nd link is for 2nd page, Star Tribune wants registration. Hopefully the two links will get you to the complete article. Bill Moyers: There is no tomorrow January 30, 2005 http://www.startribune.com/stories/1519/5211218.html http://www.startribune.com/stories/1519/5211218-2.html Sally, I find the following sentence very intriguing. However, I would love it if you could expound a little on your exact thoughts as you wrote it. Thanks!!!!!! "The Moon is VOC in Scorpio, this speech won’t really be to the people, but with the Sun/Neptune maybe the people can project their hopeful fantasies onto the podium." These are the people who got us into Iraq, and http://www.tvnewslies.org/html/pnac_neo-con_artists.html Posted by: wv on February 1, 2005 04:09 PM
Monday 31 January 2005 @ 11:19 The strength and influence of this group, therefore, makes the letter they released on January 28 all the more disturbing. It is titled 'Letter to Congress on Increasing U.S. Ground Forces,' and basically calls for a draft without using the word: So we write to ask you and your colleagues in the legislative branch to take the steps necessary to increase substantially the size of the active duty Army and Marine Corps. While estimates vary about just how large an increase is required, and Congress will make its own determination as to size and structure, it is our judgment that we should aim for an increase in the active duty Army and Marine Corps, together, of at least 25,000 troops each year over the next several years. The men and women of our military have performed magnificently over the last few years. We are more proud of them than we can say. But many of them would be the first to say that the armed forces are too small. And we would say that surely we should be doing more to honor the contract between America and those who serve her in war. Reserves were meant to be reserves, not regulars. Our regulars and reserves are not only proving themselves as warriors, but as humanitarians and builders of emerging democracies. Our armed forces, active and reserve, are once again proving their value to the nation. We can honor their sacrifices by giving them the manpower and the materiel they need. Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution places the power and the duty to raise and support the military forces of the United States in the hands of the Congress. That is why we, the undersigned, a bipartisan group with diverse policy views, have come together to call upon you to act. You will be serving your country well if you insist on providing the military manpower we need to meet America's obligations, and to help ensure success in carrying out our foreign policy objectives in a dangerous, but also hopeful, world. Disturbing. I am working up an essay for later today that looks into this, along with the outcome and reality of yesterday's Iraq election. PNAC has gotten everything it has wanted in the last three years. Parents of draft-age children should fear this new call. http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/22/5656/printer Posted by: wv on February 1, 2005 04:21 PMMaya has the 2nd part of her piece up on USA progressed Mars Retrograde, which is stationing now. http://www.daykeeperjournal.com/feature.shtml Ooooh, Captain Sally! There's a solar eclipse on April 8th (quoting from Maya here): "The state of this progressed Mars now is particularly marked by the Total Solar Eclipse of April 8, 2005, which, at 19 Aries, exactly opposes Mars’ degree of 19 Libra. Oppositions often mean exactly that: opposing forces facing one another. Here we have challenger Aries facing a confused Mars." And the conjunction of progressed suns of Smirky, SmirkySr. and SmirkyElder occurs the very next day! Wow! Jo, this link http://www.mcn.org/greatbear/tofc.html has a very extensive article about the progressed retrograde Mars in the US chart written a couple of years ago. Last year in one of my articles I talked about the coming retrograde Mars. It's going to have a massive influence on this country. It's the first time in US history this has ever happened. It has happened in other countries of course, and when it did they lost their super power status fell, not to rise again. Posted by: Sally on February 1, 2005 05:01 PMSally, hey Jo, been holding that one in a bit, digesting what you wanted to say, I'll bet? nice job :) Posted by: Peg on February 1, 2005 05:26 PM
http://www.newamericancentury.org/defense-20050128.htm
Shylurker, I am not sure I agree with Maya's assessment of the Solar Eclipse this year, but in March of 2006 there is another Aries eclipse (March 29, 2006) that better impacts the retrograde (July 20, 2006) and what we might expect. Mars will be at the degree of the Venus transit of last year. In a personal chart, anytime a planet goes retrograde by progression or direct by progression something shifts, something changes for the person. Mars speaks to a loss of ambition, loss of power, loss of striving. Many astrologers have seen this as the beginning of the US falling to 3rd world status. I am not sure I do, I see it as more of an understanding (through events) that we cannot go it alone in this country and we have to "play nice" with the rest of the world or we will get hurt. By the way, Mars stay retrograde until 2085. Hardly anyone alive today (except some new babies) will have to worry about what happens when it goes direct. The first two years of the Retrograde will be the most dramatic for the US, and you can expect an event, related to the retrograde, around June of 2006, through to June 2008, however it will be most intense from the end of July 2006 to end of July 2007. Laurie: What I meant by that is the tendency for us (the human race) to project our individual hopes, dreams, fears onto others. As an example, I may have a dream of a perfect marriage and the first guy who comes along that catches my eye I project MY dreams onto him, even if he is a scumball.Same with a President, if the "dream" of a perfect government and that would be a Republican (or Democrat) and that party is in office we project out to that person and no matter what he/she does we make excuses or forgive everything because WE believe they have our best interests at heart no matter what the evidence is to the contary. The same thing is true of our fears, we project those out as well. With so much Neptune activating the US, Republican, Democrat, Inaugural and GWB, all that we feel whether positive or negative will be projected out onto him and what he is saying. Since the Inauguration Neptune has been in a Trine to his Moon, but is not aspect the US planets right now, not to a great degree. If you remember, he was blathering on and no one knew what he was saying. Remember, his father had to come out the next day and try to explain him. With the trine to his Moon, you are going to see a bit kinder, more gentle, and completely detached from reality person, more drifty. More of an attitude of only seeing the flowers and completely detached from the dung heap in which they are growing. But the US "collective intelligence" is going to be saying "what?" Posted by: Sally on February 1, 2005 05:36 PMJo - Thanks for posting the Bill Moyers article. Amazing and scary!! Posted by: SuzieLiberal on February 1, 2005 05:43 PM**********GOOD NEWS ALERT********** ====>FIRST THERE WAS 1, THEN THERE WERE 13, gotta love that trend line. watch it grow. * touched the 3rd rail and set loose the demons. rock on barbara, harry reid, byrd, etc. www.dailykos.com Just got word that Senator Reid plans to vote "no" on the Gonzales AG nomination, joining about 30 Democrats. While in the perfect world we'd all love to see 45 "no" votes (with maybe a Chafee thrown in for good measure), reality is that 30+ votes, including the Democratic leadership, would be phenomenal. GREAT NEWS, Mike send Guido over there to have a little talk with the other 15 and Chafee. He could "make them an offer they can't refuse." Posted by: Sally on February 1, 2005 05:58 PMYAHOOOOOO! Great, great news Mike... great news! Posted by: Jo on February 1, 2005 06:11 PMSally - I think the Neptunian element will be very instructive. It will be what we can expect in miniature for four years. And it will no doubt include: Iraq is a great success, freedom, democracy, blah, blah; and Social Security is a crisis but his plan will fix it. All of which is rubbish, but which Bush wants to press into the minds of the sheeple. I agree that very strong Mars position is interesting. He will no doubt be quite aggressive in his presentation. But he has a whole month and a half of Jupiter return and Jupiter on his Moon to protect him. They are selling this whole show as a big victory and it will be hard not to be taken in by how wonderful he is until the Jupiter energy lessens. Then the sh*t hits the fan. First Uranus (April) then Saturn (starts in August). Expect his poll numbers to go up til the Jupiter passes, probably til early April at least. Posted by: Nancy on February 1, 2005 06:23 PMMike, I've been reading the comments on the diary at Kos. Some are suggesting since Reid (leadership) is voting No, we might be able to get more than 30... (work people, work, dial those phones!) Can we get a list going of those standing NO? I assume Clinton is a ?; Lieberman a yes? Obama, I hear is 'not certain' --- according to a Kossack who called his office. And, FYI, 42 Dems voted against Ashcroft (course we had MORE Dems in the Senate then): Feb. 1, 2001, 4 years ago to the day: YEAs ---58 (8 Democrats) NAYs ---42 (all Democrats) Akaka (D-HI) --------- Help us a little here with a list of sure NO's and remaining in questions... so we can work these people. dKos says The Congressional Hispanic Caucus opposes Gonzales, so shouldn't be any excuse of fear of backlash here, right? So, what's up with Obama? Help! Posted by: Jo on February 1, 2005 06:29 PMNancy, Sally, I've understood Sun conj Neptune in individual natal charts to be "cock-eyed optimist" or "blinded optimist"... so is *'s cockiness going to con us or will the Democrats finding some backbone ground us some? Surely with all the allegations about torture and its connection to this admin flying about during the Gonzales hearing won't help his numbers? Urghhhh! Posted by: Jo on February 1, 2005 06:38 PMOf the 42 Dems who voted NO to Ashcroft, the following were replaced by Reps: Carnahan (D-MO) and of course Carnahan and Wellstone were in those mysterious "plane accidents" that the black ops love. But don't be selfish, spread your opinions among the Repugs... esp. John McCain... how could he support Gonzales, who supports torture? There must be others we can lean on. Posted by: Jo on February 1, 2005 06:50 PMMike, 30 against Gonzales is great! I wish we could get all Dems - I mean this is not a "gray" issue - either we think torture is ok or we don't. A yes vote IMO tells the world "Hey, we've decided torture is ok in some cases - so, go ahead - torture our troops." We also need some Republicans to vote no. You would think since McCain was a POW - he would take the torture thing to heart and vote no too. Posted by: SuzieLiberal on February 1, 2005 06:55 PMThanks ever so much for responding to my query, Captain Sally. Lots to absorb here. Posted by: shylurker on February 1, 2005 06:58 PMjo - sorry my post is a dupe of yours - I'm so slow..... shylurker - there IS a lot to absorb here - it takes me forever to get through this forum - with all of the links and new astrological terms to research - whew - quite packed with infomation. That's what makes it great though. Posted by: SuzieLiberal on February 1, 2005 07:15 PMIt's quite alright Suzie, just shows we're thinking alike! GET GONZALES OUT :-) Posted by: Jo on February 1, 2005 07:21 PMNancy, I know and the other thing that bothers me is the progressed Mars at 18 Libra, with T Jupiter conj. that I am more concerned about the American people steeped in their blind rah, rah we are the best hubris until Jupiter gets out of there. However, that's the collective. I just don't see this particular speech as connecting to the people, or the people connecting to it in a long term manner, meaning not "sticking" to them. Outside of Pluto still being in a fairly close opposition to the US Pluto and square to US Neptune, nothing aspects the US Chart. Posted by: Sally on February 1, 2005 07:42 PMJo - Glad you brought up that US prog soon to be Mars. It should be noted that it is currently (for the past year) quincunx the US prog MC, which adds to our current militarism. By my calculation, this will start to separate very soon if not already. Also currently, the stationary Jupiter is conjunct the US prog Mars. This brings a very successful, expansionistic feeling to our military pursuits right now. This too shall pass after February. The passing of both of these gives me hope we may lighten our load in Iraq by year's end and not enter Iran so fast. The big question then becomes: what will the Uranus transit square US Mars in 2008 bring? Posted by: Nancy on February 1, 2005 07:54 PMSally, Jo - I would go farther than cockeyed optimist. The Neptune energy here with Bush (and remember it is square the Inaugural Ascendant - the face of the adminsitration) is more like rampant deception and delusion. He is not very grounded to start with having two planets in the 12th and Sun square Neptune. But he does seem to benefit greatly from Jupiter transits and Jupiter is now stationary on his Jupiter and soon will cross his Moon. So he is somewhat protected, even from the Gonzales issue, for the next 6 weeks. I bring it up so we don't get discouraged when we hear the new polls coming out that suddenly give him a higher approval rating. That normally tends to make Democrats want to jump into the nearest river. Posted by: Nancy on February 1, 2005 08:02 PMSally - I agree the people won't connect so much to his speech. He may seem in la la land. But I think the Venus transit to the Inaugural Sun gives him a momentary buzz with the pundits. And I think the energy around the Iraq election will give him a lift for the duration of Jupiter. And i also agree that the Jupiter on US prog Jupiter adds to our collective hubris. For a few weeks we may think we have brought democracy to Iraq and pat ourselves on the back. None of this will mean much in a few months. Everything wills tart to change under Uranus. I think the Iraqis will kick up out of there sooner than Bush expects, and that includes our military bases. The neocons won't be happy. That is not why they spent 200+ billion of our money. Posted by: Nancy on February 1, 2005 08:07 PMSally and Nancy, Thank you both for these additional comments. They give me hope and a light in the tunnel, so to speak. Jill, link for Mark Lerner is http://www.mcn.org/greatbear/mars.htm I was going to post it when I found the article, but got so excited with Mike's news that it slipped my mind. Posted by: Jo on February 1, 2005 08:09 PM
http://www.mcn.org/greatbear/mars.htm It's also been noted by an astrologer in Arizona and she sent it to me about 5 years ago but I am sorry I cannot find it, if I do I will post it. Posted by: Sally on February 1, 2005 08:13 PMWhoops, I am sorry Jo, that will teach me to be in a hurry and not read the posts, I didn't see you posted the link. What an idiot I am. Well I am off to meetings, will come back later Posted by: Sally on February 1, 2005 08:15 PM
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/printer_020105X.shtml Posted by: wv on February 1, 2005 08:29 PM
http://207.44.245.159/article7938.htm Posted by: wv on February 1, 2005 09:13 PMDemocrats going to filibuster torturer chief gonzalez from appointment to any position to advice shrub and his cronie; Great news for all of Mike...thanks for the slap upside the head to Jayce...or whomever this person is...funny how a whole bunch of questionable posters disappeared after 11/2/04. Why are they reappearing now? Does Guido have a guess? I am in the middle of packing to move...(not going very far, just a couple of miles), but around Valentine's Day I will not have internet (except my daughter's computer, which I am using now) and for a week or so afterwards, too. Actually moving on V. Day...new email address and all...I read this board when I can. Will be back more full time after I am settled. Oh yeh, the reason I posted....the King of Nepal has taken over the government of Nepal in what looks like a coup....although he says not. Wonder if he was the real power behind the killing a couple of years ago of his brother the former king (the former king's son actually did the killing of them all, 10 altogether, including his father the king.) I keep thinking this is what the neos will pull next here. Posted by: Judi Gem on February 1, 2005 09:54 PMThanks wv for the post on the PNAC article. It verifies my thought that they are failing. I did get a little disturbed yesterday, though, when I saw the power of the moment and groupthink. How instantly the crowd follows. Just as long as it is fleeting, I am reassured. It amazes me that so many people are completeley unaware of the PNAC when it is so largely responsible for our nation's policies now. Spreading the word is one of my crusades. One thing that is disturbing me now is the sound of the voices of the 18-25 year olds on talk radio. You can hear the tremor of fear in their voices, even if they don't mention the draft specifically. Maybe this is part of the Mars retro. It's gone far enough. And as Jo brought to mind again, the settling of our differences here might be a step toward resolving this massive conflict. The Aries/Libra nodes now will also be an influence. In the end, it's just the result of each individual war. Posted by: jm on February 1, 2005 09:56 PMInteresting: From Steve Judd's astrology website regarding the month of February: The last week of the month will be faster than the first three put together. The full Moon is going to be indicative of an event or events that will change the course of history in one bold move. Let’s hope it’s a good one. Posted by: Siobhan on February 1, 2005 10:06 PMFloor debates going on at Cspan re Gonzales. dKos has wonderful diaries, if you're inclined. Word at dKos is about 40 Dems are lined up to vote NO. And Kennedy was afire today... following have spoken and announced their vote so far: Frist, R-TN, Majority Leader, will vote yes to confirm Gonzales. Specter, R-PA, will vote yes. Leahy, D-VT, will vote no.Feinstein, D-CA, will vote no. Hatch, R-UT, will vote yes. Schumer, D-NY, Mikulski, D-MD, NO (McCain confirms will vote for Gonzales.) --------- Here are some of Sen. Kennedy's words, transcribed by a kossack, on the fly, of course: But his attitude should be of concern to American people over policy of torture. He was an epicenter of development of policy. That, for Kennedy, is what is at issue. Necessary to listen to the record. Specter said he was unsatisfied with DoJ's response to Kennedy's and Durbin's request for documents, and Kennedy is too. Was NY Times story accurate? We need information to decide on Gonzales. DoJ piles secrecy on secrecy, refuses to supply second Bybee memo, DoJ says trusts us. Specter asks to speak: Kennedy misunderstood, Specter was not dissatisfied. Second memo DoD not go to Gonzales, but went to "another client" of DoJ over what is appropriate questioning, DoJ would not release classified correspondence, chairman of "relevant" committee notified. Specter speculates "client" was CIA and chair of Senate Intelligence committee briefed. Yields back to Kennedy. Kennedy: it's about torture. Everyone has rights from Creator not to be tortured. Torture incompatible with American values. Alien to military tradition. We fight to stop torture elsewhere. These values did not change after 9-11. Did not decide to stoop to level of terrorists, abandon Constitution. Winning war on terrorism is safeguarding values America stands for at home and abroad. Americans strongly disapprove of torture, stress positions, sexual humiliation, etc. American have held fast to fundamental vales, how could government go so wrong? Administration policy established by "Bybee-Gonzales" memo , written at Gonzales's request: it starts: "You have asked for" this memo. After release of memo, it became official policy of Dod and CIA for two and half years until repudiated just before Gonzales nomination. But Gonzales refuses to say how memo was written or why he ordered it written. In July of 2002 Gonzales held meetings to justify torture,; Gonzales says he can't remember what was discussed in meeting. But admits office probably did so. Claims he does;'t know how DoD got memo to use it to justify Gauntanamo abuse -0 which "somehow migrated" to Iraq, as if no human hand involved. FBI, Red Cross, DIA day torture happened. DoD has investigated. Abuses too sickening to discuss openly are reported daily. Gonzales has been repeatedly asked for documents, he refuses to produce or even search for documents. Gonzales stated eight times he has not conducted search for documents requested by Senate! Gonzales: "For me to provide details... would entail discussing classified information and I'm not at liberty to do so". Gonzales won't say why, under what legal theory he refuses to produce documents. What are "pre-decisional deliberation" that Gonzales uses as excuse? Gonzales: "I'm not at liberty, to disclose." "I have not conducted search." It "would involve deliberative material, I am not at liberty to disclose." It is an insult to the American people,e, not just to the Senate of the U.S. Basically, the single issue is his role in development of torture policy. Kennedy: "Talk about values in this country." Classified material routinely provided to Congress. Withholding only allowed if Executive Privilege invoked by President, and that has not happened. Voting to confirm without getting these answer is to abdicate duty to advise and consent when it is needed most. Bybee memo was definitive policy of executive branch, not op-ed piece or law review article. NY Times reports second Bybee memo, we have asked for it, White House has stonewalled. Kennedy and Sen. Durbin asked for documents. As far as we know, Bybee memo was official and definitive DoJ opinion on definition of torture and legal defense of torture and power of President to override laws and treaties on torture. "Bybee clearly legally erroneous opinion" says former high-level appointee Harold Coe. Gonzales should have rejected it on the spot or at least get a second opinion from Sate Department. Instead, Bybee memo remained policy for two and half years. Bybee made three points: 1. torture is only acts which cause pain equal to death or organ failure. 2. President has power to override prohibitions on torture enacted by Congress. 3. Torturers could invoke necessity defense or self-defense argument to avoid liability for torture, even though law says exceptional circumstances may not be invoked. 4. Even if torturer knew that he was causing harm, he was not guilty if inflicting harm was not his intent. Under Bybee criteria, even Saddam Hussein's lieutenants could claim not guilty for their tortures. As Specter admits, original Bybee was flawed. But Gonzales allowed it to stand for two and half years, and to be transmitted to DoD and CIA. Conduct included burning detainees, giving enemas, etc. But Gonzales unwilling to rule out tortures so as not to provide Al Queada with a "road-map" of what to expect on capture Bybee memo relied on unrelated medical laws to justify tortures. Bybee puts Americans abroad at risk. Bybee claims Federal state would be unconstitutional if it ties President's hands as commander in chief. But Gonzales had not repudiated this, only said President had not exercise "commander in chief override" of torture law. Gonzales leaves open ability of President to do so at any time. This sends message that "anything goes" to soldiers in the field as is disqualifying for any nominee for Attorney General. Gonzales also refused to repudiate CIA "ghost detainee" policy were prisoners are hidden from Red Cross in Army facilities. Gen Taguba calls this violation of Army policy and international law. DoJ provide "Goldsmith memo". Once again, it reads, "memo for Alberto Gonzales" per his request, that allows forcible transport of prisoners in violation of Geneva. Qualifies as War Crimes under Federal law. But DoJ claimed exception for interrogation of detainees not charged with any wrong-doing. Although labeled a draft, memo was put in action by CIA to support transporting detainees out of Iraq. Memo has allowed CIA to commit War Crimes. Gonzales refuses to talk about Goldsmith memo, his involvement in. even claims he has not even formed a view about the memo. Gonzales memo brought strong negative reaction from allies, put our troops at risk. Memo was used by Army to justify Abu Ghraib tortures. Gonzales says CIA not bound by convention against torture. So US law can be violated so long as narrow definition of torture adhered to. NY Times reports Gonzales excluded officials from Gauntanamo military tribunal decisions: Powell, Rice and Chertoff and Pentagon lawyers kept in dark. But military tribunal system following apart. Even Jesse Helms was for anti-torture treaty. Basic questions raised by Bybee and Goldsmith memos about out adherence to rule of law. And what can Gonzales say to another country that tortures American soldiers? Kennedy will vote no. Posted by: Jo on February 1, 2005 10:22 PMBREAKING | Democrats Considering Filibuster of Gonzales Folks, I have hope... big-time hope for the downfall of these fascists... finally, I have strong, vital hope. Just think... the Demos are speaking on TV, they are exposing the "Memo"... just as Condi's confirmation served as opportunity to speak against the war... today is an opportunity for Dems to speak against the policies of this administration that condones torture, that calls the Geneva Conventions 'obsolete'... an opportunity to HEAR what we all think about this man, Gonzales. 40 Dems and counting, plus Indep Jeffords... we may not win, but WE WILL BE HEARD... And, who knows, maybe the words today will serve to bring these fascists to accountability? Impeachment, anyone? Nixon fell on less than this. One can hope, can't one? Posted by: Jo on February 1, 2005 10:30 PMFrom what I read over at DU (have no tee-vee service), Jo, the Dems are hitting and hitting hard (Gonzales hearings). Apparently, Ted Kennedy was just white-hot during his speech. I think that in addition to pointing out the mind-boggling reality of having to fight on the Senate floor about allowing a torture advocate to be appointed to a very high government post, they are documenting Gonzales in his own words and actions, and making that part of the public record. In addition, Kennedy apparently launched into the issue of the president undertaking a policy specifically prohibited by Congress. Wow! Posted by: shylurker on February 1, 2005 10:40 PMjudi gemini, the massacre in the royal family in Nepal was all Shylurker, I think we have a Democratic pre-emptive strike on the SOTUA tomorrow... not the kind fascists were looking for either!!! YAHOOOOOOOOO Posted by: Jo on February 1, 2005 10:44 PMI only have 1 comment regarding the "Freedom Charade" in Iraq: This too shall pass. There are many threads at the DU with people practically tearing their hair out over the gullibility & the gloating. They seem to feel the entire country has lost its bearings, how can they refuse to look at reality, this is not what's really happening, and so on. Recall how recently, Bush and his entire cabinet were shaking at the prospect of the "vote". They know how to control the US well enough, but foreign targets are untested matters and subject to "anything goes". You could almost smell the desperation coming from the White House. So the jubilation was to be expected. The fact that they went into overkill sends a very important message. Why twist ourselves into pretzels if this was the right thing to do, all along? There should be a quiet knowledge that we are right, that integrity is its own reward; we know that our actions will reap beneficial rewards down the road. So why the overkill? Methinks the lady protests too much. Are we dealing with a little issue of Guilt? Do we all in our hearts know that what the US is doing in Iraq is wrong? That no country should be occupied, even under the auspices are "freedom" but which is draining our treasury and has led to the deaths of thousands of American troops and Iraqis? The US was occupied by England in its early days. When the repression got to be too much, the colonists rebelled and fought for their freedom. Americans, if anyone, should understand the odious nature of occupation. There are many Americans alive today who have ancestors who fought for their descendants' freedoms. This legacy should still be in Americans' collective hearts. Where are they? The Hindus say that families are interconnected through time; the noble actions of one's forefathers are carried down through generations and bless and ennoble the future generations. I would like to think that my ancestors' suffering and adherence to ethical standards would be carried through down to me and my descendants. I really hope that this is true. Posted by: Cliss on February 1, 2005 10:54 PMMore good news! At this rate, the president's plan doesn't get 50 votes, while needing 60 to overcome a filibuster. And with a united Democratic front (other than a handful of representatives), Republicans in swing states and districts won't have any "bipartisan" political cover to deflect political heat.
There's a move to appoint/elect Prez Clinton to Raj, He's from NORTH Carolina... and they are not the same... there's North and there's South, where I live. And, yes we do have rednecks in both states, but we truly do not have a monoply on that... you can find rednecks in every state in USA. We simply have more than our share. Can we ship some to your state? :-) Jesse Helms is no longer in the Senate, thank the universe - but he has to maintain his image... which is of an ultra-right wing conservative... and he helped sic the dogs on Clinton when he was President... can't abide the man. Helms is infamous, but I don't think he carries any influence outside of NORTH Carolina any longer. But he's trying to raise the shackles of fear by suggesting to potential contributors for his 'library' that Bill will get to the UN (which Helms also hates!) Anyway, now that * was re-selected, Clinton's chances at UN are probably zilch. Hey, did you hear --- Democrats have found their backbone! Posted by: Jo on February 2, 2005 12:12 AMWow, this thread is hot hot . . . I'm enjoying it immensely! Thank you Jo for that excellent explanation of Kennedy's speech as I missed it today (had to be at work, sigh). . . . Sally, thank you very much for your answer to my question. It was very much appreciated! Posted by: Laurie on February 2, 2005 12:26 AMSkylurker, Thank you! My husband and I had been racking our brains trying to remember the name of the song For What It's Worth you posted. This song came to mind a couple of days ago and we still couldn't remember the name and group. Gosh, what a relief. Posted by: abilene on February 2, 2005 02:03 AMI had heard somewhere that the vote on Gonzales is likely to be on Wednesday, which means he is likely to be sworn in on Wednesday late in the day. If it is Wednesday afternoon, he will have an exact Sun neptune conjunction in his swearing in chart. I am not sure what to make of this!! Ineffective? Dissembling and dishonest? Trying to please everyone but being weak? I guess we have to wait for teh real chart, but this was too amazing a possiblity not to share! Posted by: Nancy on February 2, 2005 02:14 AMLet's all ask our senators to filibuster Gonzales--or else explain why torture is an American value. Shylurker, good idea yours upthread of shortening POTUS. I suggest PUS. Works for me. Read the Truthout essay about how Middle-Eastern war and environmental disaster are considered good things by the gang watching for the Rapture. Yep, I know them of old--but whoever thought they would be determining US policy? Re the Iraq elections and US exit--the monkey can't get his paw out of the bottle unless he opens his fist and releases the oily goodies. Is that going to happen? I think not. Yep, this site rocks. Posted by: Barbara on February 2, 2005 02:57 AMFrom James Carroll, who is clearly getting more and more disgusted with and embittered by current imperial policy. http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0201-32.htm Posted by: Nancy on February 2, 2005 02:59 AMRemember all the messing around with Turkey prior to Smirky's Iraq Attack? Claudia Dikinis had a neat article about it and how Turkey and Smirky would never a happy couple make. Well, now, look at what's stuck in Turkey's craw following the elections: http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,12122624%255E401,00.html Posted by: shylurker on February 2, 2005 03:02 AMThen there are the other young people!!!! The Associated Press http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6888837/ Nancy, The Gonzales vote won't happen before Thursday, according to Kossack who posted the calendar for tomorrow... they debate up to 6:40 I believe when they head off for the SOTU. That means we can continue to call Demo Sens all day tomorrow... My understanding is that it takes 40 votes to sustain a veto. With a caucus of 45 (46 if you count Jeffords) it will take almost 90% of the caucus to filibuster. I don't see 40... I posted upthread that Reid says entire caucus will oppose *'s social security bill, and they're prepared to filibuster, but I don't think they have 40 for Gonzales... esp. in light of comments Specter made to Kennedy re when the vote would come, Thurs. a.m., etc. Tally on Dems voting NO to Gonzales: These are Dem Senators who voted NO in Senate Judiciary Committee. I assume if they voted NO in Committee they will vote in full Senate. Patrick J. Leahy (D-VT) Barbara Boxer (D-CA) That totals 17 Following voted NO to Ashcroft, and No to Condi and we can probably count on Following voted NO to Condi, and we may be able to count on them Akaka (D-HI) Corzine (D-NJ) NO Totals 27 These are remaining votes NO for Ashcroft; may can count on some Bingaman (D-NM) Obama - (D-IL) A KossackI called his office today to urge him to vote "no," but the staffer said that he doesn't know where the Senator stands on this yet. These for sure need phone calls: Update post above: dKos is now saying Reid reporting all but Salazar going to vote against Gonzales... see diary http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/2/1/23195/12586 Posted by: Jo on February 2, 2005 04:28 AMMost impressive work, Jo! Many thanks. Posted by: shylurker on February 2, 2005 04:29 AMGosh Jo, I leave for a business dinner and come back to your "impressive work" as shylurker says. You rock. Tomorrow I hope PatC is watching for the Gonzales vote, she always gets the exact time down. You guys just rock. Nancy and I do the majority of the writing on this site and lordy we would have given up two years ago without you. I am a bit embarrassed that Salazar from COLORADO is the only Senator to vote yes for Gonzales, but maybe he feels he has to because he wrongly presented Gonzales in the first place. I fear that Salazar is just too new and has been gulping koolaid. I sometimes got the feeling during his campaign that he was trying to impress the GOP that he was deserving of his Democratic ticket, he didn't want them to be mad at him for winning. Posted by: Sally on February 2, 2005 04:35 AMTHis is a must read! Pop goes the Bush mythology bubble February 2, 2005—The Bushes are many things, but an All-American family they are not. There is something fundamentally wrong with these people and it goes past elitism and just basic snobbery. They might have "Oil on the Brain" to the point they are not even very human any more and we already know they are not humane at all. We have been told by the Bush administration that American Airline Flight 77 was flown into the Pentagon by a "crack pilot" who was a marginal car driver. Hmm, I did not buy that story for even a second. That the Pentagon fire was so hot it vaporized most of a 60-ton airplane including cobalt jet engine parts that would not evaporate in the temperatures of a normal building fire, but they got enough human DNA to prove who was on the flight. Hmm, if it were hot enough to melt a plane including a cobalt heat resistant jet engine, human DNA recovery would have been impossible so I don't buy that fable either. So, how do we prove that the "Official Bush Story" is actually the "Official Bush Lie?" That has not been easy and we have had many working on this night and day for three years to get to the bottom of the matter. Huge read - amazing photos ... please look! http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/020205Schwarz/020205schwarz.html
I feel like the provebial turtle who sticks his head out of his shell and takes a look around and And perhaps it's appropriate that I come over to look at Astroworld ( for the first time since some time in November) on Groundhog day when that furry little animal peeks out of his hole just for the day and then retreats again. I have avoided anything and all political - not even favorite pundit shows like Olbermann. But today I listened. And I heard that Dean is really rising in the ranks of contender for the Democratic Party leadership - and I thought that was hopeful. I listened to Ted Kennedy on C Span call Gonzales the author of the torture policies,a liar, an obfuscator, an obstructor to the truth. I listened to a lawyer representing who has brought a lawsuit in Germany against Rumsfeld and 9 othes in the administration for war crimes. I watched an interview with the former governor of I read Sally's angry piece above, her excellent angry piece and I thought all that Neptune she speaks of for tomorrow's lie-fest (which I won;t be listening to or watching) will be that moron proclaiming and proselytizing his "religion" from I read of the Inaugural Jupiter trine 6th house Uranus and I thought," that is going to be a very unpleasant shock to the people." And then I read Sally's link to Kireal ( I don;t know why, but that name is familiar to me) "‘Tis a planetary awakening that will happen in 2005 with such influence that it will realign the most progressive of thinkers into a force that will cause your political system to enter its final phase under its current way of thinking. Under the new paradigm of energy, those wanting to be politically influential will begin to seek their base as early as mid-year. And they will know that they must be living under the same understanding as the rest of "We the People" and that they will truly need a finger on the pulse of change. Their old cronies will not stand for them any more, and they will feel the power of this new awakening surging through the average being of the world—and I am not talking just about the Americas. Because the current of understanding will be so enriched with knowing, no one will dare use the old spin-doctors for fear of their lives—that’s right, lads and lasses, fear for their political lives." And I had a fleeting thought of all I had listened to today: and that there is a possibility, an "outside" possibility that Kirreal could be right. All these people on the airwaves could be the snowball which turns into an avalanche...maybe - maybe there could be a slight chance that the fascism that has sprouted here, that the destruction of the Constitution could be stopped in time. But to do US political astrology anymore, even to think of anything political is too painful. To be detached from these events and not hopeful If America wakes up and decides to tear the proponents of the destruction of America limb from limb,and to tar and feather the elected thieves in the capitol, it would be a wonderful thing. But it won't stop the economic bleeding and hardships coming down the pike that we are going to endure. Posted by: Pallas180 on February 2, 2005 06:19 AMPallas, I keep telling myself that what is being stripped from us was only an illusion in the first place. We never had what we thought we had, we've been lied to for so long half the country doesn't even recognize truth at all anymore, and if they do recognize it, they dismiss it. I am by nature a person of hope and new possibilities, but it's getting harder and harder to write about or care about this administration because I feel as if I am looking back onto history, I cannot get over the feeling these people are basically gone, a blip across the screen. We are not, I know through this historical black tunnel, but like Martin Luther King, Jr. "I have been to the mountain top and I can see the promised land, I may not get there with you, but it's there." I believe that for us Pallas and I will be working toward that mountain top every day. Kennedy was great wasn't he? I did catch part of that today. I also saw a bit of Jesse Helm, what a frozen creep he is, gives me the shivers. In an abstract way (because astrology is abstract) I gave a lecture in 1999 and said that by 2012 "we will find out just how awful we, the human race can be." Well the gates of hell have been pulled back to show us, that's for sure, but the best of us is there too and once the shadow has been cleaned out, we can start looking for the authentic best. I do believe that. Posted by: Sally on February 2, 2005 06:55 AMThe Prosecutor Never Rests By Peter Slevin CHICAGO If Osama bin Laden ever stands trial, there's a prosecutor in Chicago waiting to face him down. As a driven young lawyer in the 1990s, Patrick J. Fitzgerald built the first criminal indictment against the man who would become the world's most hunted terrorist. Both men have moved on, you might say, but Fitzgerald still imagines that fantasy date before a judge --------------------------------------------- *******First there was.......1
Patrick Fitzgerald must be a scorpio. ;O) Posted by: JoannaOregon on February 2, 2005 01:43 PMSally, Shylurker, Pallas, so good to hear from you. I have thought of you often and missed your spirit and energy on this board. Please speak to us again, as your voice is a strong one. I share Sally's thoughts that we as a country and probably as a species are in for a rude awakening and some very tough times. But we are strong stock --- as I remind my grands, you come from good 'peasant' stock... no royalty, no upper class lazy bones... but the very substance of the earth. The 12-step program has proven to be a good one for lots of addictions and I find much of their philosophy to be good for us in general, basically 'one day at a time' and keeping closure with relations current. Some days I feel overwhelmed with the horror of what we as a country are doing to others and ourselves and then others I feel hopeful. We must grab onto days like yesterday and move as gently as possible through this nightmare. There will be bad times economically, as you allude to, but we have become too materialistic as a people. We must return to caring about each other and this good earth we call home. I recall some months back feeling very disillusioned and alone... I related a little sign I have over my computer "Lord Be Good to me for my boat is so small and the Sea is so wide." (from the Children's Defense group). Shylurker, in all her wisdom responded to me "Don't worry, Jo, there are lots of small boats out here, not alone, together." Light to you Pallas. Posted by: Jo on February 2, 2005 01:50 PMyou all are so eloquent, I stand in awe at your ability to put words to thoughts & feelings like you do. Pallas, Jo & Sally, you definitely have coined my current feelings. I called Obama's offices, he is "leaning no". I've expressed my displeasure at his straight-arming his constituents and have heard there will be improvement? We'll see.......... Posted by: Peg on February 2, 2005 03:05 PMPallas, its great to see you back! Like so many other moments, your post was coincidental to a conversation of last evening. In many ways i too have backed off -- a decided contrast to pre-election activity. Yet there is something qualifying about this time and space. I've given much heart and thought to where i'm gonna row this small boat(thanks for that Jo!). I would almost bet that you have done the same. And, i would almost bet that you have an idea brewing, something that will bring your personal light to bear. Though i cannot point to any astrological indicator (though i'm certain there is one) -- i believe that many, many entities are now receiving some sort of inspiration. It FEELS as though we are entering to a new time, a new way of thinking and a Human(e)way of BEING. This administration is a culmination of strategy plotted years ago. Their actions have condensed the energy around them (if this makes any sense). Like a black hole implosion, they'll take many aspects of life with them. It won't be long. And then (to quote from The Goonies) "It will Our time, Our time!" karen Posted by: farrout on February 2, 2005 03:09 PMJo, Thanks Pat QOP, I've sure there may be other mistakes in my list; i.e., I don't think I have a total number listed in the caucas... but the time was short and I wanted folks to have tel nos. and some info if they were inclined to call. Hopefully I can get the list cleaned up and list their names and contact info for emails and phone so we'll have a permanent list for future votes. We have to work the Repugs too... our opposition counts, whether they agree or not. Sen Graham is voting YES to Gonzales after all his promises to follow "all the way up the chain"... ha! he's standing with the party all the way... and I'm afraid Lieberman who is really a Repug in Demo cloak is going to stand with the neo-cons. Please hear my following comments in the spirit in which they are intended... as an opinion, as info, but with no malice intended toward anyone or group of people: The politico savvies at dKos have termed what they call "identity politics" that apparently some of the Repugs and Demos are caught up in playing with */Rove... As we all know, the Dem party is a huge tent, always has been. Therefore, we have elected minorities more often than the Repugs. But they are using our swords against us... they are putting forward folks who share their ideology and their methods who also wear 'labels' with which many groups in the electorate identify, most of whom are Democrats. Condi, whom women and Blacks can identify with... Gonzales, whom Hispanics identify with... and Chertoff, the 2nd Jew to be nominated for high office (or so the press is saying)... Chertoff will be introduced by two DEMOCRATIC SENATORS --- who 'identify' with him --- they will introduce this Republican/Neocon/fascist resident's nomination to head up 'homeland' security. Chertoff has advised the FBI I believe on the torture issue as outlined by Gonzales. In my opinion, he is a clone of Gonzales. But their Machiavellian tactics have cut into our party so that imo, they are using our strengths to carry out their agenda. Which is nothing new actually, but it is new to politics in this country... at least on this scale. Posted by: Jo on February 2, 2005 03:59 PMDear Jo, Pat POQ, Sen Lautenberg has already come out as voting NO on Gonzales. So your intuition is right on! Posted by: Jo on February 2, 2005 04:44 PMI swear I read last month that the SoU was to be at 9pm tonight. Well, I went to the C-Span site and it says that the SoU is going to be broadcast at 8pm and 11pm ET. That would throw the ASC and house cusps into the center of signs wouldn't it? I was really looking forward to the revealing of the *end of something* that would have been put forth at 9:11-9:14pm as Sally and Dave suggested. Jill G., According to both CNN and MSNBC sites, the SoU will be at 9:00 p.m. EST. Posted by: Teresa on February 2, 2005 05:47 PMI checked my local listing and it's showing 8:00 CST (I'm in the midwest) and 9:00 EST. CSPAN is showing it's SoU preview at 7:00 CST. Posted by: abilene on February 2, 2005 06:34 PMKennedy letter claims 'Smoking Gun' against Gonzales http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/2/2/103725/1689 Posted by: Jo on February 2, 2005 06:34 PM9pm it is. Be sure to look for what he's talking about at 9:14pm. Endings are "in" tonight. But remember that endings mean beginings too. So here' some personal news: BTW - I got hired as a driver for a local catering company. Will probably be starting tomorrow. It's not ideal, but at least it's a job. The orders are typically in the $200-$300 range, which means you get Jovian-sized tips. Also, I got rejected from two law schools (both of which were my last two choices). I have six to go, including the two DC schools. Hopefully, the Chiron action, my upcoming birthday, and all the other stuff going on in Aquarius right now will help. I'm going to DC for the convention next weekend!!!! This is so freakin' cool! I'll give you guys an update on what happens after I get back, but I'm so excited that I get to go to this thing. Posted by: Dave on February 2, 2005 07:27 PMDave, that's great that you found a job and just keep applying to law school, timing is everything, don't give up. Jo, thanks for the link to Kennedy's letter "a historical and shameful day" says it all. The whole thing makes me sick and the American people don't seem to care, no one seems to care. I wonder what our "tipping point" will be in this country. Posted by: Sally on February 2, 2005 08:21 PMThank you, thank you Teresa and Abilene for letting me know when it really starts. I'm setting my alarm, for my Pacific time here, so I can catch his big, big lies! Gosh, it's the first dubya thing I've ever wanted to hear in the last seven years(used to live in Austin). Now if I could just find the anti-nausea pills. ;-) Posted by: Jill G on February 2, 2005 08:31 PMSally, What about actual public attitudes? Again, right before the election, major studies were released reporting them – and when we look at the results, barely reported, we see right away why it is a good idea to base elections on deceit, very much as in the fake markets of the doctrinal system. Here are a few examples. "A considerable majority believe that the US should accept the jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court and the World Court; sign the Kyoto protocols; allow the UN to take the lead in international crises (including security, reconstruction, and political transition in Iraq); rely on diplomatic and economic measures more than military ones in the “war on terror”; and use force only if there is “strong evidence that the country is in imminent danger of being attacked,” thus rejecting the bipartisan consensus on “pre-emptive war” and adopting a rather conventional interpretation of the UN Charter. A majority even favor giving up the Security Council veto. Overwhelming majorities favor expansion of purely domestic programs: primarily health care (80%), but also aid to education and Social Security. Similar results have long been found in these studies, carried out by the most reputable organizations that monitor public opinion." --------- and also in the piece, Chomsky speaks to the torture issue: "The conception of presidential sovereignty crafted by the radical statist reactionaries of the Bush administration is so extreme that it has drawn unprecedented criticism in the most sober and respected establishment circles. These ideas were transmitted to the President by the newly appointed Attorney-General, Alberto Gonzales – who is depicted as a moderate in the press. They are discussed by the respected constitutional law professor Sanford Levinson in the current issue of the journal of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences. Levinson writes that the conception is based on the principle that "There exists no norm that is applicable to chaos." The quote, Levinson comments, is from Carl Schmitt, the leading German philosopher of law during the Nazi period, who Levinson describes as “the true éminence grise of the Bush administration.” The administration, advised by Gonzales, has articulated “a view of presidential authority that is all too close to the power that Schmitt was willing to accord his own Führer,” Levinson writes. One rarely hears such words from the heart of the establishment." http://chomsky.info/articles/20041217.htm Many thanks to you all for your welcome back and kind words. I've missed writing and being here,but I couldn't bear to read anything political. For some time I've found solace in retreating into my spiritual, psychic and astrological teaching newbies world - sans any political talk or thought. I'm ready to come back if Sally will have me, but I have one card left that I haven't played. I was so discouraged and thinking" what's the use" after the faux election, that even though I have Dershowitz's private numbers, and Waxman's and a couple of others, I did not send the info they expressed interest in. Although my heart isn't in it, I will now.Maybe In the past, similar to Sally's history, I have had the unusual facility/ability to make contacts Just a cog in the wheel, but "We are woman, hear us roar". Posted by: Pallas180 on February 2, 2005 08:54 PMhttp://dcinsidescoop.blogspot.com/2005/02/republicans-going-purple-tonight.html In the latest sign that the G.O.P. is intent on politicizing everything Iraq-related, Congressional Republicans are reportedly planning to show up at tonight's State of the Union address with purple ink on their fingers to send the message that they support Iraqi voters. Let's hope this little stunt backfires on them. This could also send the message that their fingerprints are all over this Iraqi mess. Atrios is right - morons! Maybe the Fat Lady still hasn't sung???? Democrats will investigate Ohio vote By Carl Weiser "I want them to open up the machines," outgoing Democratic National Committee Chairman Terry McAuliffe told Gannett News Service and USA Today reporters. "If there's nothing wrong with the machines, we ought to be able to go in and take a look at them." Since November's presidential election, a small but vocal chorus of liberal activists has complained that the vote in Ohio was miscounted - either through conspiracy or errors - and the wrong man elected president. Had Ohio's 20 electoral votes gone to Sen. John Kerry, he would be president today. But he said the DNC's investigation was a bow to "blogworld," referring to activists who write Web logs about politics and continue to talk about a stolen election. There's even a Web site, www.bushstole04.com , largely about the Ohio vote. McAuliffe said he has assembled a team of about 20 experts in law, statistics and computer analysis. They'll crunch numbers, file freedom of information requests and talk with election officials. Posted by: SuzieLiberal on February 2, 2005 09:33 PM
http://207.44.245.159/article7954.htm Posted by: wv on February 2, 2005 10:54 PMWell, I know y'all are just dyin' to hear what state this dis-union is in (as Claudia calls it) - check out her site and click on 'scorecard' --- will take you to Center for American Progress where they have assembled speeches for 2002, 2003 & 2004 and given * a score --- might make a nice summary checklist for watching tonight's charade, if you have the stomach for watching... Posted by: Jo on February 2, 2005 11:31 PMJay Rockefeller just on Lou Dobbs re: Social Security Jay Rockefeller on Dobbs saying that if the moron would pull back 1/3 of the tax cuts he gave to the wealthiest, social security would be fine until 2075. By the way, whatever happened to the Intelligence Committee's second half of the 9 11 report that they were stopping Rockefeller from giving before the election? When will that be out? The battle rages on, as always. In our evolution at this stage, and the duality of our lives in this dimension, the conflict is inevitable, as we try to be good people and triumph over the demons. It's a tug of war, and hopefully the forces of progress will have another turn soon. Those inclinations have been aroused in all of us to such a large extent lately, I can only conclude that there is a reason behind this consolidation. An astrologer I know made the remark that Bush's Pluto on the Ascendant was like a sewer for all of us, endlessly bringing to the surface and sucking up our negativity. It is phenomenal how detached he seems from the vileness, and how bottomless the tank is. Maybe this really is a necessary purge. The USA Mars going retro is connected, I think, with the Pluto opposition to our Mars, and something has been transformed that we are not fully aware of yet. That's why I think there has been so much talk of the destruction of honesty in our media. We might be compelled to be truthful. Who knows. There has been a lot of talk about the tipping point lately, which indicates that there really is one. What could be more of a tip than the recent tilt in the earth's axis with the earthquake and tsunami? Posted by: jm on February 2, 2005 11:47 PMConditions are ripe and getting riper. " German unemployment jumped to the highest since World War II as new rules added welfare recipients to the jobless register, clouding the outlook for Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder in elections this month. The number of people out of work in January rose by 227,000 to 4.71 million in seasonally adjusted terms, including 230,000 new jobless claimants, the Nuremberg-based Federal Labor Agency said today. The adjusted unemployment rate rose to 11.4 percent, a seven-year high, while the unadjusted jobless total passed 5 million for the first time since the war. Schroeder's government had cut jobless benefits and forced claimants to take low-paid jobs in an attempt to get more people into work in Europe's largest economy. The chancellor was campaigning today in Schleswig-Holstein, where his Social Democratic Party is trying to hold on to power in the Feb. 20 state elections. "
Pallas, I would be interested to hear what you have to say about the timing and nature of the economic downturn(collapse). Won't that be happening throughout Pluto in Capricorn, as we deal with the earth element, ie., natural resources? Posted by: jm on February 3, 2005 12:56 AMAlthough there are certainly other charts and aspects to be considered I feel that the following indicate a time period that deserves intense scrutiny. All charts located in Washington, DC. All measurements made in right ascension. ATTACK ON IRAQ, Mar 19, 2003, 9:35 PM, EST Transiting Saturn is opposite Uranus/Pluto Monday, May 30 opposite Mars/Neptune Thursday, June 9 square Saturn/Uranus Thursday, June 9
Transiting Saturn is opposite Mars/Uranus Saturday, June 4 opposite Midheaven Wednesday, June 8 square Sun/Saturn Wednesday, June 22
Transiting Saturn is conjunct Saturn (non-precessed) Saturday, June 18 conjunct Saturn (precessed) Friday, June 24 bob Posted by: bob on February 3, 2005 01:34 AMAnd on the subject of progress. Wouldn't this Uranus/Neptune mutual reception be about futuristic utopian societies? The neocon plan is a utopian vision as well, after all. They went first, and it doesn't look good. Back to the drawing board, which is what we are starting to do in these forums about political change. So maybe this is in preparation for Pluto through Aquarius when the destructive and creative powers of our newfound technological knowledge will be put to the test. Posted by: jm on February 3, 2005 01:36 AMWhoah, Bob. Speaking of war.... judging from your calculations, bob..... It looks like we are going to be attacked by reality. Posted by: jm on February 3, 2005 01:48 AMThe Gonzales vote and likely swearing in on Thursday will fall on a very close Sun Neptune conjunction and likely a Moon Uranus square.
And just two last tiny added factors: Transiting Saturn conjunct USA Mercury, May 27 Transiting Saturn opposite USA Pluto, June 23 Posted by: jm on February 3, 2005 02:08 AMThe Emperor marched along under the handsome canopy into the Senate and all his officers marched behind him, in gorgeous clothes. But the people in the streets and at the windows gazed only at the Emperor, for they all wanted to see the wonderful cloth. "How handsome the Emperor's clothes are!" they all cried. "What a perfect fit! What marvelous colors!" No one would say that he could see nothing, for that would have proved him very stupid and unfit for his office. No clothes of the Emperor had ever been so much admired. "But he has nothing on!" said a little child. "Hush! Hush!" said its father. But the people began to whisper to one another what the child had said; "He has nothing on! A child says he has nothing on!" Soon all the people were saying aloud, "But, he has nothing on!" The Emperor head what they said, and he shivered, for he knew that their words were true. But it would never do to stop the procession; and so he held himself stiffer than every. And behind him his officers carried the invisible train. We are all Germans now... Read these comments and weep. Just as the '(s)election of * was vindication of his invasion of Iraq, now so will be the confirmation of Gonzales be the affirmation of the torture policy of this administration, according to some legal beagles. http://hunter.dailykos.com/story/2005/2/1/22623/87932 Posted by: Jo on February 3, 2005 02:18 AMI love my life too much to watch He Who Shall Not Be Named, so could someone tell me if anything of interest was said at 9:14 or therabouts? Or if anything of interest has been said at all? LOL How y'all have the strength to endure him, I'll never know. :-) Posted by: Jonathan on February 3, 2005 02:25 AMJonathan, This is what I could manage for you dispite technical and family interferences. He didn't start talking until 10 after. His introductory lies took the next 4 minutes. He mentioned how so many countries are now able to have elections and are free. Words like "confident and strong", "our generation is blessed" were repeated. At 14 after is his start of the spiel on the economy being great. Then the lies about the budget and how he will have the deficit cut in half by 2009. Within 5 minutes he is talking about how SS must be changed to save it. They're shouting NO, No to his BS about SocSec going bankrupt. Most are cheering though. He looked calm and strong and confident. Mostly he was full of sh*t but it wasn't obvious if you didn't know a lot. I missed the part on foreign policy. I went to join my son watching the end of a Sienfeld rerun. I think he will get some bounce from this with his Jupiter return. He seemed less crazed and dreanged than usual, more grounded. but I thought he promised a lot of things that I wondered if he would ever really fund, like significantly extending the use of DNA in criminal cases and giving people good defense lawyers when they can't afford one. Posted by: Nancy on February 3, 2005 03:45 AMI swan, Jill G., you must know shorthand to get all that. Thanks for the update. I decided not to watch the little guy on tv. My taxes were much more exciting. Posted by: Teresa on February 3, 2005 03:46 AMNancy, I'm still sputtering over the mission to Mars he mentioned last year. Posted by: Teresa on February 3, 2005 03:48 AMHere's a copy of Bush's speech for those unwilling to watch the creep show (me included): http://americablog.blogspot.com/2005/02/full-text-of-bushs-sotu.html Posted by: Siobhan on February 3, 2005 03:58 AMTake out some frustration. Go vote: Thanks Jill G. I missed the first few minutes of the speech. Hmmmmm. Talking about the economy at 9:14. That's an ominous sign. Nancy, I had the same thought about the DNA issue. If he was so concerned about DNA evidence, you would think he would have looked at it as governor of Texas when he was making clemency decisions on death row cases. Likewise, half of his policy "laundry list" was made up of things he's been promising for years and has never even attempted to deliver. Like you said, most of the speech was full of shit, but you wouldn't know this unless you were well informed. The speech was certainly more detail-oriented than the inauguration speech, but equally in fantasy-land. It was very clear to me that Bush only sees what he wants to see. Likewise, he would sometimes put two unrelated things in his list next to each other, and the first would contradict the second. Contrast this line: "I support a constitutional amendment to protect the institution of marriage." which appeared right before this line: "We must never turn away from any citizen who feels isolated from the opportunities of America." The man just doesn't get it. I kept thinking: he's gonna be pissed when reality comes crashing down in the spring. Posted by: Dave on February 3, 2005 04:06 AMMSNBC poll says 2-1 less optimistic Read this & feel better! Then go vote! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3096434/ In the quickie polls at the end, 80% said they approved of his goals, but something like only 49% believe he can achieve them. *sh looked good tonight, seemed to get a good reception, and particularly seemed encouraged when the Democrats stood up to clap for certain statements as they couldn't stay seated for without looking small. It was a brilliant move to have Iraq's female Human Right's Minister hug the mother of a dead Marine as it was very heartfelt. Harry Reed and Nancy Pelosi gave the democrat's response but didn't have enough charisma. What they said was very good though. Reed said s.s. privitization is off the table and won't happen, it's too much of a gamble and dangerous. He spoke of the wasted surplus and the deficits. Pelosi talked about how Iraq cannot take care of itself, the many holes in our own security, the fact that there has never been a comprehensive exit plan for Iraq, and the need for a 21st C. GI Bill of Rights to give them better benefits. Sen. Mary Landrieu (D-LA, my senator) was then interviewed and she said the Democrats would work with Bush to strengthen s.s. rather than take $2 trillion away from it, that it was more important to strengthen Medicare and national health care. Dan Rather afterwards asked John McCain pointblank what the exit strategy for Iraq was. His answer was VERY weak. He seems to favor investing s.s. funds. On my local news, 6 men/women on the street were asked what they thought about s.s. privitization and they all thought it was a good idea. What shmucks! Obviously they are not investors and don't know how fast money can be lost. Posted by: Sharon on February 3, 2005 04:12 AMI hardly know where to begin, the bubble he lives in is beyond belief. He started speaking at 9:09 with a 28'51" Virgo Asc. squared by Mars and trined by Chiron, and in the first four minutes I heard false figures, spin and out and out lies. By 9:15 0 Aries was on the Asc. signaling the intention of a new way for the US. However, those are HIS intentions and with the 0Aries Asc. moving to a square to the US Venus/Jupiter it's unclear to me whether the US will buy that new way. I cannot listen to anymore of the lies, his tone of voice is exactly like the tone he used when he said "Saddam had weapons of mass destruction and he bought aluminum tubes from Africa." I did hear some groans from the audiance when he started talking about SS. I didn't listen to all of it but it ended at 10:02 EST with Cancer on the mid-heaven, so his Sun and the Sun of the US were just over into the 10th house and T Sun inconjunct. Jupiter moved closer to the Ascendant, the media will talk about how great he was, his long lingering looks toward the couple in the balcony (didn't hear what that was about) helped him end with his party faithful in empathic tears, not realizing they are lambs being led to the slaughter. From the 30 or so minutes I actually saw, I didn't hear anything but a lot of nothing. I am sure those of you who listened to the whole thing might have heard something else. Several phrases and words he used were the exact same phrases in past speeches. In fact I turned it off for awhile and when I turned it back on I thought I was watching a re-run for a minute, even down to the same warning to the people of Iran that he gave to Iraq. The attention has turned to Iran, and Europe will turn further and further away from us. After listening to the talking heads it seems as if there is no way through this time but through this time. This was a speech for George and his "base". I would watch the European papers for not only their assessment but what they do in the coming weeks. To my knowledge there has not been any European heads of state visiting recently unless it's Blair, but it's not been reported. The one bright spot is Mars inconjuncting GWB's Saturn, frustrated action! Posted by: Sally on February 3, 2005 04:15 AMWow Sharon, Copies of Reid's and Pelosi's speeches are up at dKos if y'all want to look 'em over... http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/2/2/224639/7496 Posted by: Jo on February 3, 2005 04:18 AMGo vote here too. Ummm...Sally, how can the asc go from Virgo to Aries in less than 15 minutes? Posted by: Teresa on February 3, 2005 04:38 AMSally, ...and was taken directly from the Michael Moore playbook. Funny how military moms crying is okay in one instance but not in the other. I think that the mother's pain was genuine though. But she's a fool to allow herself to be used by Bush. Anyone who works with that man eventually gets burned. To say nothing about our country as a whole... Posted by: Dave on February 3, 2005 04:56 AMI'm so glad that you guys and gals at AW are here. Sally, you don't know what a good service you and all the rest are doing for us. I mean, it's hard to find others so interested in Astrology like us, so this forum is a great spring-board. I have never played the victim role much. I mean, as a gay person, you just live with it and understand that it comes with the territory. And to be honest, most straight people really don't care about my preference nor are they homophobic. However, Bush's rant tonight just really pissed me off. I mean, here he talks about freedom, yet keeps wanting to keep us second-class. What a totally sick-o. I mean, can he be even more a hypocrit. Don't the "fundies" see this? I cannot wait until the Neptunian illusion is over. I really got the feeling that Bush really believes what he is saying. The man is dillusional!!! Thanks for letting me rant. Posted by: Travis on February 3, 2005 05:07 AMBefore anyone anticipates Pluto in Capricorn, Wish I could spend much more time in here, and offer apologies for not seeming more participatory [but I run a no-kill shelter, and...], however I did want to provide the following article by Harry Browne. Perhaps constant doses of reality will slowly help to "awaken" those who believe [and even insist] that the recent "election" in Iraq offers something...anything...to celebrate. May God have mercy upon our souls. May God bless Harry Browne. -- vcz
The occupying army manned the polling areas to assure that there would be no voting irregularities. Meanwhile, the population went to the polls and voted in unprecedented numbers. When the votes were counted, to no one’s surprise the party in league with the occupying military won the election and began to run the country — while the foreign occupying army got a series of military bases and stayed on and on and on. Iraq in 2005? No, it was Poland in 1947, and it was over 40 years before the Soviets left. But that was different! Then why did you assume I was talking about Iraq? The Orgy I was traveling on Sunday. So I wasn’t able to participate fully in the 24-hour television orgy celebrating President Bush’s great vindication. Shortly after I returned home late at night, I tuned into Fox TV News and watched the late-night reruns of The O’Reilly Factor and Hannity & Colmes. According to the fair & balanced network, there were no shades of gray concerning the Iraqi election: * This was an "historic election." Somehow, although never explained, the election turnout was proof that countries like France and Germany now have to participate in rebuilding all the Iraqi infrastructure destroyed by the American military. Somehow, although never explained, the election proved that President Bush is right in saying that the world is now a safer place with Hussein out of power. This was a defeat for the far left in the United States. This was an "historic election." Somehow, although never explained, all the American deaths (the Iraqi deaths don’t count) have now been justified by the election. Somehow, although never explained, the 150,000 American troops in Iraq are now much safer. Somehow, although never explained, "This is obviously a huge blow against worldwide terrorism, which opposes any kind of democracy" (O’Reilly’s words). This was an "historic election." This election was unprecedented in a Middle Eastern Muslim country. Failure in Iraq would have made our lives more dangerous. This was an "historic election." Iraq will be the leading democratic reformist state in the Muslim world, and other countries will necessarily have to follow suit. The Democrats in the U.S. are looking very bad now because of their negative statements about Iraq, and they have a "real problem" because they’re so out of touch with reality and with the American people. Did I mention that this was an "historic election"? (They mentioned it over and over and over.) All this was accompanied by a few film clips of Iraqis voting or dancing — clips that were repeated over and over. The Other Side Both Fox shows played clips of Senators Kennedy and Kerry making the following points: * The election in no way changes the fact that Americans were deceived into supporting a war. The election won’t stop the violence. The election won’t change the growing perception of an American occupation. We shouldn’t celebrate the election until we see what it leads to. It is time to start withdrawing American troops from Iraq. America is less safe as a result of the war in Iraq. The Fox hosts were shocked — shocked! — that the Senators would make statements that were so "irresponsible" (a word they managed to repeat frequently during the two hours). The Fox commentators came very close to accusing Senators Kennedy and Kerry of treason. Although they felt it was important to show the American people several times the film clips of the Senators’ statements, no one was invited on the Fox shows to explain or defend those statements. Instead, the fair & balanced network interviewed about ten guests who agreed that such statements were "irresponsible." They even brought on everyone’s favorite "moderate," Senator Joseph Lieberman, to register his disapproval of his fellow Democrats. And they dug up Alexander Haig from somewhere, so they could play the clips for him and ask him whether he thought the statements were "irresponsible." Big surprise, he did. He also mentioned that George Bush took America into war "to protect our values and our interests." He didn’t mention how Saddam Hussein threatened our values or our interests — or even what our interests are. History If there’s one thing that politicians and TV commentators know a great deal about, it sure isn’t history. Although the Fox commentators repeated over and over that the election was "historic," none of them mentioned that Iran has regular elections. Nor did they mention that Iraq has had plenty of elections already. During Hussein's reign, the 220-member National Assembly was elected by popular vote. The only recognition of this came when someone reporting from Iraq quoted one voter who said something on the order of, "We’ve had ballots before, but Saddam marked them for us." Yes, it’s true that the choices available in previous Iraqi elections were limited. But, then, Donald Rumsfeld made it plain on April 15, 2003, that the choices to the people in a "liberated" Iraq would be limited as well. Rumsfeld said that, no matter what the will of the Iraqi people: * Iraq cannot be divided into three separate countries (a plan that many people believe is the only way to bring lasting peace and freedom to the country). No matter what weapons nearby countries such as Israel, Pakistan, or Russia might use to threaten it, Iraq will not be allowed to have comparable weapons. Iraq cannot become a fundamentalist Islamic country like Iran. People who are pro-Iran or pro-Syria cannot participate in the elections or the government, although anyone who is pro-American is of course free to do so. And speaking of limitations on democracy, the people of California voted in 1996 to make medical marijuana legal, only to have the federal government tell them that their "historic election" was unacceptable — and the Feds convicted Ed Rosenthal for doing what the voters of California had authorized him to do. Also the federal government (the same one bringing democracy to Iraq) decided not to accept the assisted-suicide law passed by a referendum of Oregon voters in 1998. Current History Along with ancient (pre-September-11th) history, the war hawks have little interest in current history. As a result, the 24-hour "special edition" orgy on the Iraqi elections acknowledged no facts, or even potential facts, that would dampen the celebration. Here are a few aspects of the election that the Fox TV News boys had no desire to explore: * Many of the Shi’ites who voted may have been doing so because they thought it would hasten the end of the American occupation. Many Iraqis voted because they had been told their food rations would be cut if they didn’t vote. Estimates of voter turnout started at 72%, and continue to be cited by various commentators, but were reduced several times during the day — and will probably turn out to be significantly less than the figures that formed the basis for the celebration. In fact, it appears that about 30% of the eligible voters didn’t register, and over 40% of those registered didn’t vote — making a total turnout of about 42% of the eligible voters, roughly on a par with the poorly attended U.S. elections. But then, it’s always more fun to celebrate the initial expectation than the final result. The U.S. occupying authorities have contingency plans to adjust the election outcome if they’re not satisfied with it. Foreign monitors were unable to verify any of the claims made for the election, because it was unsafe for them to visit the polling places. Turnout was apparently very high in Shi’ite areas because Shi’ites (deprived of power during Hussein’s Sunni reign) expect to dominate the new National Assembly and perhaps impose a religious regime on Iraq, while fewer than 1% of the population in Sunni Samarra bothered to vote. The video clips they showed of the interim Prime Minister, Ayad Allawi, casting his ballot and then issuing a celebratory statement on the election were filmed in a heavily guarded bunker. Most likely, the soldiers shown in dispatches by Geraldo Rivera in Iraq had been hand-picked to assure that no one appeared on TV who didn’t support the war. Does this celebration remind you of "Mission Accomplished"? Far from being a great triumph for George Bush, he had to be pressured into holding the election by Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani. After the U.S. celebrated the end of "ethnic cleansing" in Kosovo and the victory over the Taliban in Afghanistan — and in each case turned its attention elsewhere — all hell broke loose. But here we are, once again celebrating before the results are in. Conservatives seem to be good at only two things: (1) They celebrate victory when all they’ve done is start toward some goal; and (2) They never run out of excuses when the plan fails. Meanwhile, back at the Foxy TV News network, we can see that the slogan . . . We report . . . should be modified to read: We report one side After seeing Enron, Tyco, Worldcom and the other If these fools would read a paper or watch the market themselves they might know better. cheezus xrist almighty. The insurance companies, banks, and corporations are cleaning up - sucking every last dollar out of the peasants! And the dumbasses are marching up willingly to the sucking machine. Posted by: Pallas18 on February 3, 2005 05:25 AMTeresa, the Asc. started out at 28 degrees Virgo, and moved to 0 Aries in about 5 minutes. The Asc. moves every second Posted by: Sally on February 3, 2005 05:29 AM"From the 30 or so minutes I actually saw, I didn't hear anything but a lot of nothing. I am sure those of you who listened to the whole thing might have heard something else." I distinctly heard him promise to put soda pop in all the water fountains, and to get us totally out of last period for a pep rally every Friday. He's principal Rove's pet, so maybe he really can! Posted by: vcz on February 3, 2005 05:42 AMI didn't listen to the speech, but I tuned in a few times without sound to check out the facial expressions. He looked calm without the usual twitching until the tribute to the couple with the dead soldier. His face took on a very peculiar expression and he looked distraught. His face tensed up measurably. Could it be guilt? I don't know. I also noticed that the mother was wearing a "blue dress", and I thought that was odd. Posted by: jm on February 3, 2005 06:16 AMVCZ It absolutely had the feel of "mission accomplished" In fact I was looking for the flight suit. The Insurgents seem strangely quiet, makes me wonder about the insurgents, but why not, I've been wondering about the 9/11 pilots since Sept. 2001. I agree jm, he was and has been calmer tonight and in the last few days. Maybe better meds. I felt like the couple in the audiance had been used for a photo op. The Guardian is up and isn't too flattering of his speech, calls it delusional and says Syria and Iran need to go on guard. I agree, I am going to pull out Iran's chart tomorrow. Posted by: Sally on February 3, 2005 06:46 AMHaving grown up in "The South," I always detested that fundie hyper out-of-control emotionalism... one of its most defining trait imo. Somehow, they equate that particular dysfunction with great god-ness. Bah. Humbug. Posted by: JoannaOregon on February 3, 2005 06:48 AMFox have turned their guns on Venezuela. Very ominous... They do grudgingly acknowledge that Chavez was democratically elected and remains "popular", but for some strange reason they couldn't find a single Chavez supporter to talk to for their "Fair & Balanced" report. Or even anyone willing to talk about the corruption of the previous (very pro-American ) regime. Of course Chavez isn't helping matters by doing weirdness like triple-taxing anti-Chavez TV stations and banning all footage of demonstrations, etc. Posted by: mars on February 3, 2005 06:52 AMGoes along with Saccharine, drippy hallmark cards with mice dressed in country blue/pink dresses n' jackets, happy faces on hot air-filled balloons, & an excrutiating processed sugar-loaded sentimentality passed off as real feeling. Bah. Humbug. Posted by: JoannaOregon on February 3, 2005 06:54 AMhahahaha, oh shyperson (aka lurker), i did "go vote" (only for you) and guess what, on five or six areas, it's now running 60% "less optimistic" regarding *'s wacky proposals. this is, of course, MSNBC, a site that any serious leftie now avoids like the plague. bad news for bush. what a "moran!" now for some strategy. did you see sen. reid and rep. pelosi tonight with the DEM response. it was a masterpiece of video rhetoric. reid, the nice, small town guy...so calm, but listen to his words. he's nailing bush. pelosi was much stronger than she's been in the past and quite logical on national defense. this is called THE SET UP. you set up your position in a way that makes you look reasonable and willing to work with *. then, as you knew all along, * doesn't play ball. the next step is THE PITCH. you go out and really sell your position (it's already in place with the DEM's 10 point program). then, when people get behind you and pissed off at *, you do THE TURN. that's when nice harry and decorouis nancy become outraged. "we're so nice, harry's small town, and we tried but * wouldn't play fair;" and then they attack pushing the DEM proposals even harder. the final step is THE SALE. that happens as a result of eveything that came before. THE SALE is when you get the public behind you in a big way and throw the bums out. this is very sophisticated stuff. reid is a fighter and no simpleton. he's about as small town as donald trump. he encouraged boxer's challenge of Ohio, he said nothing to discourage the Rice nay votes, he's all out against Gonzales, and he will crush, literally CRUSH * on social security. this is going to be great! send light to harry and nancy!!! send it every day. they need our support and they will grow to be even better people. can you imagine taking the garbage they have to take to fight *. i love them both. ps. here is the senate DEMS legislative proposals. check it out, from fair voting legislation to progressive economic policies. http://democrats.senate.gov/issues.html Kerry has issued a press release slamming $%#!!*'s comments tonight on Social Security. Posted by: jm on February 3, 2005 07:37 AMHa ha, Joanna O! The mice in dresses! Gingham, of course, and joyously laboring over a bubbling stove with a look of such happiness that any ordinary intelligent creature would automatically gag! The other disgusting thing I saw was the purple fingertips to show solidarity with the Iraqis, who they are torturing and murdering, and plan to continue doing so. [lol I accidentally posted this to the wrong thread. 'Night, Gracie!] Sally: Yes, it was "Mission Accomplished" all over again, with that juvenile and sheltered "I say it, you believe it" megalomania he does so well. [He always looks like his mommy just spit in her hand, fixed his hair, straightened his tie, told him what a big man he is, then turned him towards the stage, patted his butt, and pushed him front and center. He knows he's a very special boy...] More for those who believe there was an election in Iraq. I had to laugh when an embed talked about "Iraqis dancing in the streets," saying it was "as historic and symbolic a moment as when they pulled down the statue of Saddam Hussein." LOLOLOL It certainly was! It's sad that, by now, an American citizen wouldn't know the truth regarding such propaganda as "Iraqis tearing down the statue of Saddam Hussein," but it's pathetic to hear such claptrap from alleged "journalists." [Whenever I have a free moment, I write "Mrs. Mark Morford" on all my peechees...(*sigh*)] Come See Our Brutal Democracy Ah, the violent march of democracy. Beautiful thing, really, seeing repressed and weary Iraqis vote for the first time, and dance in the bloody bombed-out streets, and avoid the suicide bombers and of course not be able to travel between provinces or drive anywhere in their locked-down nation and by the way watch out for the snipers on the roofs. It really is amazing, watching the deeply flawed system of democracy take hold in a raw and decimated nation like a thorny weed cracking through shattered concrete. All people deserve to be free and now Iraqis have a tiny bloody taste of it and this is always, always a good thing. I am not kidding. So, should we be proud? Is Bush's thuggish and illegal pre-emptive attack strategy justified? Are Iraq's first-ever elections a defining moment in American political history? Are we all righteous and good and holy, despite all the dead bodies and the hatred? Well, sort of. But then again, not really. Should Bush get some credit for all the cheering Iraqis who are now breathing sort of free? Well, no. Not even close. While it's always heartwarming to see a brutalized and disheartened people flex their newfound freedom for the first time, the costs of this teetering, fragile, force-fed, implode-at-any-moment democracy are nauseating and appalling. You already know the numbers: $300 billion, over 1,400 dead U.S. soldiers and over 10,000 permanently wounded and countless thousands of dead innocent Iraqi civilians -- and many, many more to come. And let us not forget the biggest disclaimer of all: Not a single one of BushCo's alleged reasons for dragging our fractured and bankrupt nation into one of the most brutal wars since Vietnam has actually proved valid or justifiable. The disgusting array of WMD/nuclear/biotoxin lies and deceptions are not suddenly erased because we set up some polling places. How quickly we forget: A democratic Iraq was never the reason Bush forced us into this war. Iraq's fledgling democracy is a pleasant side effect, a bonus PR move, a heartstring-tugging and patriotic patina of bogus humanitarianism BushCo is now trying to slather over one of the most disastrous and inept military efforts in recent history. It makes for terrific photo ops. It makes for miserable and debilitating foreign policy. Look. Democracy is good. Treasonous BushCo dishonesty and misprision and an outright ignorance regarding exit strategies and the true costs of war are not. Republicans and Bush apologists are quick to ignore, in this momentary orgy of political spin and PR, how not a single one of the problems Iraq faced before the elections has been solved. The brutal insurgent violence is only increasing. U.S. soldiers are dying in record numbers. Iraq is a violent mess. And Bush just asked for $80 billion more from the broke U.S. economy to fund the occupation, with no end in sight. Let's just say it outright: The ends do not justify the means. A barely democratic Iraq is fine and good, but you well know that if Bush had mumbled to the nation three years and $300 billion ago that we were going to start bombing this piss-poor country back to the Stone Age and gut the U.S. economy and put thousands of American soldiers and tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis in death's way to deliver it, all while sending the nastiest possible message to the world and actually increasing the threat of terrorism while turning our backs on every major U.S. ally, I doubt many Americans would have giddily waved the flag of support (except maybe Ann Coulter, who apparently loves anything involving guns and dead foreigners). Let's put it another way: Here is your choice, America: $300 billion and massive international disrespect and a huge pile of dead American soldiers in an effort to force a fragile democracy onto a torn and fractured Iraq by ousting their useless dictator who was, let us repeat, no threat to us, or to anyone, and who was, in fact, our ally, until he dared to threaten our oil. Or: $300 billion to assist struggling nations and battle AIDS and protect the planet, to evolve our international relationships and set up treaties and unifying alliances and maybe even have a little left over to help fix our own schools, maybe help all those destitute American city upgrade their hospitals and fix their homeless problems and even maybe launch a national health-care plan, spend that money on trying to solve a huge host of social ills plaguing this crumbling beautiful egomaniacal empire we call home. Which do you choose? What cost democracy? Where do you draw your lines? Bush does not get credit for Iraq's fleeting glimpse of democracy for the exact same reason you don't give the tsunami credit for cleansing the streets of Indonesia. His motives were never, repeat never, to bring democracy to Iraq. His motives were to oust a pip-squeak dictator who threatened our access to 10 percent of the world's oil. It was about power, and regional control, and ego, and petroleum. Period. Does this matter anymore? Iraq gets a glimmer of democratic hope and all lies and broken international laws and oily policy shifts are forgiven? Hardly. Because if this is our new agenda, if we are suddenly the Hammer of Democracy that slams our political system onto every country we feel deserves it and damn the fiscal, emotional, spiritual and human costs, well, let's get to it, already. Let's right now start preparing for U.S. forces to march into that pesky repressive China. Let us look forward to BushCo declaring war on Iran, and then North Korea, and then huge parts of nondemocratic Africa. Any day now, yes? How about Egypt? And Pakistan? And Jordan? Dictatorships and monarchies and repressive, antidemocratic oligarchies, all. Man, we'll be at war until 2045! Whee! What about poor, beautiful Nepal, where the king just shut down the government and closed all the airports and severed communication with the rest of the world, and over 10,000 people have died in rebel fighting and the military is patrolling the streets and citizens are terrified and repressed and democracy is dying on the vine? Shouldn't we be marching in there next week, Georgie? Saddle up, cowpokes! Oh wait. Won't happen. Reason: Not convenient. Not strategically lucrative. No oil reserves. No real power gain, except for maybe Iran, which is why BushCo is already busy working with Israel to map out bombing strategies. In fact, to prove we don't really give a crap for the lovely "march of democracy" Republicans so love to gloat over, let's note right here how the U.S. regularly gives billions in aid to those very same repressive, dictator-friendly burgs of Egypt and Jordan and Pakistan. Ah, flagrant hypocrisy, thy name is Bush. Look. Does America have a responsibility to the world to promote peace and democratic ideals in the world whenever possible? Hell yes. Does the world's richest and most gluttonous superpower have an obligation to intervene when absolutely necessary and help repressed peoples taste freedom and emerge from the shadow of evil dictators? You're damn right. But not this way. Not at this cost. Not via a staggering and soul-mauling string of lies and abuse of power and a brutish foreign policies that only alienate and aggravate and inflame. Not through torture tactics and economic plundering and fear stratagems designed to keep the exhausted American populace from asking too many questions about this administration's real motives. And not by way of a thuggish pre-emptive attack-first policy that goes against everything America has stood for (i.e., defense, containment, peace) for the past 100 years. Meanwhile, in related news, an international team of scientists and researchers announced that the world has roughly 10 years before the effects of global warming become permanent and irreversible. Before the Gulf Stream is permanently weakened and massive ice shelves melt and the world is plunged more deeply in danger than we could ever imagine. You really want to protect democracy, Dubya? Ensure its survival? You really want to have a lasting legacy, one not tainted with blood and war and humiliating claims of "mission accomplished?" Here's a tiny reminder: that $80 bil you just asked for to kill more Iraqis is 17 times higher than the EPA's entire budget. Maybe, just maybe, something is just a little off in our nation's priorities? Just, you know, a thought. Go democracy! http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/g/a/2005/02/02/notes020205.DTL&type=printable Posted by: vcz on February 3, 2005 08:08 AMYes,vcz. Please bear with me. I am in a bit of a rage. I had a revelation concerning the Iraqi occupation tonight. I heard Scott Ritter, Marine and ex weapons inspector, say that the intention of the neocons was to incite a civil war in Iraq. A bell rang in my head. This goes along with the article vcz just posted. I am wondering how this could backfire. And how Sistani fits in. Posted by: jm on February 3, 2005 08:40 AMI woke up this morning with the remenants of a dream............... While we're focused on stopping confirmation of Gonzalesl, Chertoff - his clone, is coming in through the back door... "How Chertoff hid Terror"
"fewer good men" are willing to be fodder (proving evolution is more than a theory!) Posted by: Jo on February 3, 2005 01:32 PMCan't provide the link....this came as e-mail subscription to Toranto Globe & Mail Gas leak kills Georgian PM Georgia has a history of political intrigue that sometimes turns violent, but there was no immediate indication of foul play in the death. An autopsy was under way and the prosecutor-general's office said an investigation had been opened. Mr. Zhvania, 41, was visiting the Tbilisi apartment of his friend Zurab Usupov, deputy governor of the Kvemo-Kartli region, who also died, Interior Minister Vano Merabishvili said on Rustavi-2 television. Security guards broke through a window when they heard no sign of life inside the apartment several hours after the prime minister arrived, Mr. Merabishvili said. The PM had entered the site at about midnight and the guards came in about four hours later. "It is an accident," Mr. Merabishvili said. "We can say that poisoning by gas took place." A gas-fired heating stove was in the main room of the mezzanine-floor apartment, where a table was set up with a backgammon set lying open upon it. Mr. Zhvania was in a chair, Mr. Usupov's body was found in the kitchen. Levan Chichua, a top official in Georgia's National Bureau of Forensic Medicine, said there were no signs of violence and that preliminary examination showed both died from carbon monoxide poisoning. Deputy Prosecutor-General Georgy Dzhanashia told journalists the heater was installed "with serious technical violations ... there was no ventilation in the apartment." Central heating is scarce in Georgia. Many people rely on gas or wood stoves in their homes and fatal malfunctions are often reported. President Mikhail Saakashvili convened an emergency cabinet meeting, which began with a moment of silence. "Georgia has lost a great patriot, who devoted his entire life to serving the motherland. Zurab's death is a great blow to Georgia and to me personally," Mr. Saakashvili said. Mr. Zhvania was a key ally of Mr. Saakashvili's in leading the November 2003 protests against election fraud. The demonstrations, which became known as the Rose Revolution, drove Mr. Shevardnadze into resignation. Radio Imedi reported that Mr. Saakashvili had named Vice-Premier David Baramidze as acting prime minister, citing government chief of staff Petre Mamradze. Russian President Vladimir Putin sent a telegram of condolence to Mr. Saakashvili, which said that Mr. Zhvania "was well known in Russia as a supporter of the development of friendly, good-neighbourly relations between the Russian and Georgian peoples." Mr. Zhvania was considered a moderate counterbalance to the more impetuous president, and he was one of the key government figures trying to negotiate settlements with Georgia's separatist Abkhazia and South Ossetia regions. A minister in South Ossetia's separatist government, Boris Chochiyev, expressed shock and said he hoped the death would not hinder negotiations on a settlement with the central government. PAT QOP Posted by: Pat QOP on February 3, 2005 02:16 PMNot meaning to be nitpicky, Sally, (well...yes, I do) but the asc would have had to move from 28 Virgo to Libra not Aries. :-) Can someone tell me why Lieberman doesn't just switch party affiliation? He's obviously a DINO and to me that is fundamentally dishonest. Posted by: Teresa on February 3, 2005 02:57 PMMore Mandville... The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments: Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may prevent sending or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check your e-mail security settings to determine how attachments are handled. Posted by: wv on February 3, 2005 03:09 PM
A.G. = Alberto Gonzales AG also = against, agenda, agent provocateur, aggression, agitate, aggravate, aggrandize, etc., The letters A=1 and G=3 add to 4. Four in Tarot signals completion. Negatively, the Four can be interpreted as the enterprise has become victoriously established... strikes, walkouts, boycotts, layoffs, riots, looting and revolutions can be indicated. Posted by: Jo on February 3, 2005 04:05 PMRemain saddened by PUS's speech. Kept thinking of and seeing in my mind's eye children riddled with bullets, women AND men weeping over their losses while we perform the imperial march. More, i visioned those who believe they are "righteous" enough to sit at the right hand of god (when the armageddon they've pushed to realize comes to fruition) watching those "left behind" starve, ooze, drown and die in other horrific ways. This is compassionate conservatism. Then last night for the umpteenth time i dreamed that the sky was filled with a variety of UFOS, fighter jets ineffectively attempting to intercept. I woke laughing about the symbolism since i'm more and more tempted to believe that those in power are totally ALIEN. Certainly, they're far from human. karen Posted by: farrout on February 3, 2005 05:05 PM The Dems need a whole new strategy. They are always playing catch up. Bush moves so fast and so radically, the Dems are always on the defense and look weak. They need a whole new plan. I see three points that they should hammer: 1. Global warming. We need a massive multi-pronged effort to get it under control. We need to talk about it with lots of graphs and scientific statements to back it up. It is completely under the radar of most of the country and Bush doesn't even believe it exists. It is like a masive iceberg we are about to hit and we aren't even looking at it. 2. Alternative fuels. We don't need a War on Terror but a war on oil dependence. Let the War on Terror become more about intelligence and pin point strikes. Get rid of its cause which is our obsession to control the parts of the world that have the resources we need. That will drain out a lot of the hatred that feeds the terrorists if we get out of the business of raping, pillaging, and plundering the planet and start to make an effort to be independent, especially of energy resources. 3. Get control of this deficit, which includes no new radical programs like this Social Security nonsense that will add huge amounts to the deficit. This is another iceberg we are about to hit and Captain Bush is looking the other way. This is the chief reason to harp on about how bad his Social Security is, but the issue is even bigger. The Dems need to point out how dangerous things right now are, how the dollar is sinking and people are pulling their money out of dollars. We need to close tax loopholes and lighten up Bush's tax cuts and move to strengthen our economic position and lighten our deficit or there will be hell to pay. Bush is great at scaring the population with fantasy. It is time to scare it with the reality Bush has created. And we need to use language like "hitting an iceberg", "dangerous policies that are leading to disaster". America needs to wake up to what is happening. I think the Dems should focus on these things and stop trying to play catch up with Bush, stop letting him run the national dialogue. They need to go on the offense with the truth and with a plan. You're right Nancy... hopefully they are beginning to fight... maybe with Reid coming in, the opposition to Gonzales and SS coming up, we will see a different 'opposition' party. Remember though that most of their efforts are shadow boxing as the core of *'s support don't believe in "tomorrow" (see Bill Moyers piece linked upthread)... combine that with their disdain for evolution or anything scientific... well, you're trying to reason with unreasonable people. We can't give up though... I'm really counting on Dean getting in to clean up the DNC... and Harry Reid --- of 'walk softly' type --- seems to be wielding a big stick within the caucus... he actually knows what the term "Whip" means... One thing flashs in my mind frequently... this matter of leaders... reading Noam Chomsky yesterday I was reminded that the Repugs/the elite - the 'corporate interests' - whatever you call them, always indicating those few who have the most... they think of the 'people' as that GREAT BEAST, which must be tamed, controlled, as it is incapable of making a decision. Gore Vidal reminds Americans always that when we criticize the 'government' we are in effect criticizing ourselves... you know, We The People... now comes Dean, who true to his word that he is all about reform, calls for decentralization... ideas from the grassroots... we are the leaders, not the 'followers' as some would suggest, and certainly we are not the Great Beast that the fascists are attempting to slay and place under their boots. Here is link to Howard Dean's site and his latest speech (he issues one weekly)listed below: http://www.democracyforamerica.com/ By Gov. Howard Dean, M.D. Over the past thirty years, Republicans have become the majority party in America by building a terrific grassroots organization. If we are to take our country back for ordinary working Americans, Democrats will have to match or exceed the Republicans ability to motivate voters. Grassroots organization really has to be based on two way communication. In our Presidential campaign we started with no money, no base, but a great number of enthusiastic grassroots activists. We ceded decision making power to local folks and let them run things in their areas as they saw fit. This turns out to have been our single most important innovation, and it is the only one that wasn't copied by any of the other campaigns, either Democratic or Republican. Everything else, the small donor programs, the house parties, the interactive Web sites and organizing was used by others. The reason that the most important piece wasn't copied is because it requires a real change in thinking by people who run for office and their consultants, not just adopting new techniques or technology. Letting go of central control is what gives voters real power. When I used the phrase "You have the power" during the campaign, I meant that by working together, Americans could overcome the forces of the right-wing and reassume their constitutional role in running the country. What I didn't understand was that "You have the power" was more than that. It didn't apply only to people's ability to change America, it also applied concretely to their ability to make every day decisions about how they would cause that change. In our campaign, Americans without any previous political experience made decisions about when to leaflet, what to say in the leaflet, where to leaflet and how to organize. They organized and ran hundreds of organizations such as African-Americans for Dean, Latinos for Dean, Punx for Dean, Irish Americans for Dean, etc., which sprang not from a central "outreach" desk in Burlington, but spontaneously all over the country, finding each other on the Web, and creating a national organization from local ones The idea of a decentralized campaign terrifies most politicians who have gotten used to putting out ideas and letting others respond. We discovered that the path to power, oddly enough, is to trust others with it. The true mark of a modern campaign will be to listen to Americans and let them shape campaigns instead of simply allowing them to respond. Our campaign was far from perfect, and we did not win. But our organization today is almost 600,000 strong that we know of, and there are more people in the organization today than there were on the day I dropped out of the presidential race. People still meet monthly in about 500 locations across America to talk about how to bring reform, and then they act on their plan locally. I wish I could tell you that this was all because of my leadership and charisma; that is not so. The reform movement lives because it isn't mine. Our people know that they have the power in their own communities, linked across the country, to elect reform-minded people. They did exactly that on six months notice all across the country in places like Utah, Alabama, and Idaho, not just New York and Ohio. If Democrats use this model, we will effectively leapfrog the Republicans, who despite their discipline and organization, are still a top-down, control and command organization.
After reading WV's link to Mandeville.................. re: the Rupture of the Indo Trench; I'm thinking..................................... I agree most wholeheartedly with what Dean is saying in your post, Jo, but I also think we need some uniform "talking points". Mainly words that need to be repeated over and over by all Dem spokespeople so that they penetrate the numbed masses. We need to associate the word "dangerous" with Bush and the image of a coming "iceberg" with global warming. Even with the iceberg in sight, Captain Bush wants another study to see if icebergs exist. We need to start scaring the people with the reality he is creating and steer them away from his demagoguery. Posted by: Nancy on February 3, 2005 07:06 PMNancy, agreed... 'Rupture' rather than 'Rapture': Pat QOP, I think you've coined a classic there. If y'all will dash over to Joshua Micah Marshall's talkingpointsmemo.com, you'll see that SMirky&Co have now backed off the claim that those private SS accounts will save anybody any money. Nothing beats a Barrel of Monkeys like these guys. Posted by: shylurker on February 3, 2005 08:12 PM
http://www.democracyforamerica.com/contactus.php Posted by: wv on February 3, 2005 08:13 PMFiore and Rightwing Ralphie... http://sfgate.com/comics/fiore/ Posted by: wv on February 3, 2005 08:28 PMSheesh! I just posted a note to Nancy and Jo and it has not appeared yet. If it does, this will be a duplication. Sorry. Nancy and Jo, (Alternatively, maybe what's coming down pretty soon will be so overwhelming that only sheer survival will matter.) Thanks for helping me out. Posted by: shylurker on February 3, 2005 08:47 PMMebbe Dean will actually be starting a NEW party of real progressives, ect. Perhaps the chart of his election will be profoundly interesting for that reason imo. ;O) Posted by: JoannaOregon on February 3, 2005 09:34 PMFrank Rich is one of the best writers in America February 6, 2005 On the first anniversary of the Super Bowl wardrobe malfunction that shook the world, it's clear that just one was big enough to wreak havoc. The ensuing Washington indecency crusade has unleashed a wave of self-censorship on American television unrivaled since the McCarthy era, with everyone from the dying D-Day heroes in "Saving Private Ryan" to cuddly animated animals on daytime television getting the ax. Even NBC's presentation of the Olympics last summer, in which actors donned body suits to simulate "nude" ancient Greek statues, is currently under federal investigation. Public television is now so fearful of crossing its government patrons that it is flirting with self-immolation. Having disowned lesbians in the children's show "Postcards From Buster" and stripped suspect language from "Prime Suspect" on "Masterpiece Theater," PBS is editing its Feb. 23 broadcast of "Dirty War," the HBO-BBC film about a terrorist attack, to remove a glimpse of female nudity in a scene depicting nuclear detoxification. Next thing you know they'll be snipping lascivious flesh out of a documentary about Auschwitz. This repressive cultural environment was officially ratified on Nov. 2, when Ms. Jackson's breast pulled off its greatest coup of all: the re-election of President Bush. Or so it was decreed by the media horde that retroactively declared "moral values" the campaign's decisive issue and the Super Bowl the blue states' Waterloo. The political bosses of "family" organizations, well aware that TV's collective wisdom becomes reality whether true or not, have been emboldened ever since. They are spending their political capital like drunken sailors, redoubling their demands that the Bush administration marginalize gay people, stamp out sex education and turn pop culture into a continuous loop of "Rebecca of Sunnybrook Farm." With Sunday's Super Bowl, their crusade has scored a touchdown. MTV has been replaced as halftime producer by Don Mischer, the go-to guy for a guaranteed snoozefest; his credits include the Tony Awards, the Kennedy Center Honors and the 2004 Democratic National Convention at which the balloons failed to drop. (His subsequent cursing was heard on CNN, but escaped government sanction because no Republicans were watching.) Fox Sports Net has changed the title of its signature program "Best Damn Sports Show Period" to "Best Darn Super Bowl Road Show Period." The commercials, too, will "be careful" and in "good taste," according to the head of marketing for Anheuser-Busch. Fox, which recently pixilated the bottom of a cartoon toddler in a rerun of the series "Family Guy," now has someone on full-time rear-end alert: it rejected a comic spot for Airborne, a cold remedy, showing the backside of the 84-year-old Mickey Rooney as he leaves a sauna. This might all be laughable were the government not expanding its role as cultural cop. But it is. The departures of Michael Powell, the Savonarola of the Federal Communications Commission, and John Ashcroft, whose parallel right-breast fixation was stimulated by a statue in the Justice Department, are red herrings. "Thank God he's gone, but God help us with what's next," said Howard Stern upon learning of Mr. Powell's imminent exit. He's right. After all, L. Brent Bozell of the Parents Television Council condemned Mr. Powell for "four years of failed leadership" in fighting indecency. (Mr. Powell's commission had the temerity to actually reject some Parents Television Council jeremiads, which are distinguished by their inordinate obsession with the penis.) Mr. Bozell, whose organization has been second to none in increasing the number of annual indecency complaints from 111 in 2000 to a million-plus last year, is angling for a tougher successor and may well get one. His wish has in effect been granted even before Mr. Powell's chair is filled. The second Bush term began with the installation of a powerful new government censor in another big job, Secretary of Education. Margaret Spellings hadn't even been officially sworn into the cabinet when she took on "Postcards From Buster," threatening PBS with decreased financing because one episode had the show's eponymous animated rabbit hobnobbing with actual lesbian moms while visiting Vermont to learn how maple syrup is made. Though Buster had in previous installments visited Muslims, Mormons, Orthodox Jews and Pentecostal Christians, gay couples (even when not identified as such on camera) are verboten to our new Secretary of Education. "Many parents would not want their young children exposed to the lifestyles portrayed in this episode," Ms. Spellings wrote in her threatening letter to Pat Mitchell, the C.E.O. of PBS. The letter, as it happened, was unnecessary: Public broadcasting says that it had decreed on its own only a few hours earlier that it would not distribute the offending show - the most alarming example yet of just how cowardly it has become and how chilling the Janet Jackson effect has been. (Since then, some two dozen member stations out of a total of 349 have rebeled and decided to broadcast the episode anyway.) But the story won't end with this one incident. Ms. Spellings' threats against PBS are only the latest chapter in a continuing saga at an education department that increasingly resembles an authoritarian government's ministry of information. A month before the election, The Los Angeles Times reported on its front page that the department had quietly destroyed more than 300,000 copies of "a booklet designed for parents to help their children learn history" after Lynne Cheney, who has no official government role, complained about its contents. The booklet burning occurred under the watch of Rod Paige, the education secretary who, we would later learn, was simultaneously complicit in another sub rosa exercise in heavy-handed government information management: the payment of $240,000 in taxpayers' funds to Armstrong Williams, a talking head and columnist, to plug Bush administration policies on radio and TV. Mr. Paige fled his post last month without adequately explaining what he knew about these scandals. Enter Ms. Spellings, previously a White House aide who by some accounts had been a shadow administrator of the education department during Mr. Paige's out-to-lunch tenure. With all the other troubles in public education, why would she focus on a single episode of a single children's program on her second day in the job? We don't yet know. But her act was nothing if not ideologically synergistic with still another freshly uncovered Bush propaganda effort. Just as Ms. Spellings busted Buster, two more syndicated columnists copped to receiving taxpayers' dollars, this time siphoned through the Department of Health and Human Services, to help craft propaganda for a Bush "healthy marriage initiative" that disdains same-sex couples as fervently as Ms. Spellings did in her letter to PBS. What makes this story more insidious still is the glaring reality that the most prominent Republican lesbians in America are Mary Cheney, a former gay and lesbian marketing liaison for Coors beer, and her partner, Heather Poe, who appeared as a couple in public and on TV during the presidential campaign. That Ms. Spellings would gratuitously go after this specific "lifestyle" right after taking office is so provocative it smells like payback specifically pitched at those "pro-family" watchdogs who snarled at the mention of Ms. Cheney's sexual orientation during the campaign whether it was by John Kerry or anyone else. Surely Ms. Spellings doesn't believe in discrimination against nontraditional families: by her own account, she was a single mother who had to park her 13-year-old and 8-year-old children in Austin when she first went to work at the White House. Then again, President Bush went on record last month as saying that "studies have shown that the ideal is where a child is being raised by a man and a woman" (even though, as The New York Times reported, "there is no scientific evidence that children raised by gay couples do any worse"). That our government is now both intimidating PBS and awarding public money to pundits to enforce "moral values" agendas demonizing certain families is the ugliest fallout of the campaign against indecency. That campaign cannot really banish salaciousness from pop culture, a rank impossibility in a market economy where red and blue customers are united in their infatuation with "Desperate Housewives." But it can create public policy that discriminates against anyone on the hit list of moral values zealots. Inane as it may seem that Ms. Spellings is conducting a witch hunt against Buster or that James Dobson has taken aim at SpongeBob SquarePants, there's a method to their seeming idiocy: the cartoon surrogates are deliberately chosen to camouflage the harshness of their assault on nonanimated, flesh-and-blood people. This, too, has its antecedent in the McCarthy era. In his novel "The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Clay," Michael Chabon was extrapolating from actual history when one of his heroes, a gay comic book artist, is hauled before Congress to testify about pairing up "strapping young fellows in tight trousers" as superheroes. A Senate committee of the time did investigate the comics. Its guiding force was the psychiatrist Fredric Wertham's fear-mongering 1954 tome "Seduction of the Innocent," which posited that Batman and Robin could corrupt children by inducing a "wish dream of two homosexuals living together." The decency cops of that day, exemplified by closeted gay right-wingers like J. Edgar Hoover and Roy Cohn, escalated a culture war into one with human costs by conflating homosexuality with the criminality of treason. One big difference between that America and ours is that the culture industry, public broadcasting not included, has gained much more power since then. Should Sunday's Super Bowl falter in the ratings, its creators will lure that missing audience back next year with wardrobe malfunctions that haven't even been invented yet. But gay parents whose "lifestyle" is vilified by a cabinet officer don't have that power. They're vulnerable even in a state like Vermont that respects their civil rights. "I feel sick about it," Karen Pike of Hinesburg, Vt., told The Burlington Free Press, after learning that PBS had orphaned the "Buster" episode showing her, her partner and their three children. "I understand they get public funding, but they should be the one station we feel confident in, in knowing that what we see there represents our country." No one had told her that some stories are no longer welcome. You have to wonder if anyone has told Mary Cheney: Focus on the Family could not have been pleased to read last week's New York Post report that she has hired Bill Clinton's high-powered literary dealmaker to peddle her own story as a book.
I need to make a comment about the impression Bush makes on people. I've been reading on the DU that many, many people write that they "can't stand to look at him", or they turn the TV off, because he's so repulsive. Other people write that they can't even listen to him on the radio, because he makes them so angry. I've felt this way ever since BeelzeBush was "elected" in 2000. I recall being over at my parents' house, visiting. My dad, who's ordinarily the most peace-loving, benevolent man ever, told my mom that if he were near Bush, he would try to strangle the man. My mom shakes her head and wishes Bush _ _ _ _ (deleted). I feel the same way when I have the great misfortune of seeing him, or hearing his revolting voice on the radio. My trembling hand reaches out to turn the radio dial QUICK. Anything, even lousy Muzak will do. I believe Bush brings out very deep-seated psychological responses in us. Hence his 'Fated' presidency, his ascendance into his position, seemingly "by magic", considering his flaws. His voice and aura connect with our deepest fears and primal rage. I believe he was placed in his position by our own collective unconscious, to taunt us into making a decision about who we are. It's simply impossible to escape the man for very long. You can try, but his abrasive voice seems to be everywhere. What is his role, other than driving us crazy with his obnoxious nature? His role (and he is largely unconscious of this; DU:ers call him a 'tool', and they are right). His role is to force us to take a stand. We must choose. Time is running out. One day, and not too far off, we will be faced with a collapsing economy, and huge problems of our own making. My personal prediction: we will have a currency crash that will be a lot like 1929. That was a stock market crash, but the results will be very similar. The world will be sucked into the maelstrom. We won't go under, but a huge portion of the population will be penniless. The stock market will crash. Pension plans will be a daydream. We need to decide now. Will it be to follow the way of greed and violence, chaos and destruction? Or will it be the New Way, according to the New Age, which has already arrived? To live a more centered life, choosing better energy alternatives, eating wholesome food and taking care of ourselves. Caring for others. Above all nurturing our own spirituality. Bush and his minions are the symbol of the Old Age, the Dark Ages, or Kali Yuga. They have their claws outstretched, digging into our flesh, trying to hold us back, holding onto us with fear, degradation and threats. It's too late. The high spiritual vibrations have already inundated the citizens of the world, making them want to move forward to the New Age. We must make that choice. Bush is standing before us, taunting us. For my own sake, and for my children's sake, I have chosen the New Age. Posted by: Cliss on February 3, 2005 09:36 PM Joanna, For those Democratic Senators who vote yes on Gonzales, a vote that inescapably endorses the torture policies of the Bush Administration, I can only express the deepest disappointment in your vote. You have betrayed the ideals of the Democratic Party and of our Country. I cannot support you. This issue goes to the very heart of what we are as Democrats and Americans. I simply cannot support a person who can condone the Bush Administration policy of torture. The Democrats voting Yes on Gonzales were: (1) Senator Ken Salazar (Colorado). (2) Senator Joseph Lieberman (Conn.). (3) Senator Ben Nelson (Neb.). (4) Senator Mary Landrieu (La.) (5) Senator Pryor (Ark). We will remember. As for the Republican Senators, who all voted yes, you merely confirm what the Republican Party has become in the era of George W. Bush - un-American.
Senate confirmed Gonzales. Vote 60 - 36 Those Democrats voting YES to torture: (1) Senator Ken Salazar (Colorado). (2) Senator Joseph Lieberman (Conn.). (3) Senator Ben Nelson (Neb.). (4) Senator Mary Landrieu (La.) (5) Senator Pryor (Ark). We will remember. Kudos to the 35 Democrats and Sen Jeffords who voted NO to Gonzales and NO to torture. Sen Whip Harry Reid needs to find Sen Lieberman a parking space in Virginia. He has become the Zell Miller of the party. Thanks Abilene, I knew we would not prevail, but I am mighty proud of the Democrats and Jeffords, who stood tall for our values and for our country. I am proud of our party. But boy do I have some words for the friggin five! Let's tell 'em how we feel. Posted by: Jo on February 3, 2005 10:40 PMHas anybody looked at Sen. Harry Reid's chart? I like what I've seen so far. He seems to be able to bring a lot of the Dems together. Just curious. Posted by: abilene on February 3, 2005 10:42 PMDisappointed in LA's Senator, Mary Landrieu. Wonder why she voted for Gonzalez's appointment (as well as the other Dems). Any ideas? Posted by: Sharon on February 3, 2005 10:52 PM http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/3AE0E9D0-1307-4FD6-8009-90C723A777AD.htm Posted by: wv on February 3, 2005 11:05 PMhttp://www.dailykos.com/main/2 Sen. Salazar, you receive an empty letter and you are satisfied. Sen. Durbin asks detailed questions and receives answers that wholly contradict the letter and you choose to "believe" the unbelievable. Sen. Salazar, you are either not telling the truth or not fit to be a Senator. The first does more credit to your intellect but little to your integrity and commitment to human rights and respect for the Constitution. The latter is based upon a lack of competence that staggers the imagination. You owe it to your colleagues, your constituents and your conscience to explain how you can square the facts described by Sen. Durbin with your willful blind ignorance of the torture policy approved and reaffirmed by Judge Gonzales. Your failure to do so can lead to only one conclusion - you condone this Administration's torture policy. Sharon, I haven't seen anything on the blogs to answer your question but I thought the above was good. If you get a chance you should go read the rest. Posted by: abilene on February 3, 2005 11:13 PMHonestly, the most shocking vote for Alberto Gonzoles came not from these few Democrats, but from John McCain. John McCain wins my "Republican Hypocrit of the Month" award when it comes to this vote. How could a man who spent years being tortured in Vietnam vote to confirm an attorney general who can find a way to rationalize the use torture. If John McCain ran for the presidency in 2008, I will no longer give him my vote. Honestly, I can't believe the mainstream press isn't covering this. Posted by: Dave on February 3, 2005 11:38 PMIt will be the year of the green (wood) rooster (or chicken) starting this month. Even the Chinese calendar calls it a repeat of last year. "The major elements in the Green Chicken are Wood and Metal. According to the Five Element Relationship, we know there is a conflict between Wood and Metal. So the disputes and arguments are there for many people in 2005. Actually, the most conflicts came from the events in 2004. Any unfinished good or bad business from 2004 will continue to occur in 2005.
You can add Bill Nelson (D-FL) to list who voted YES for Gonzales and torture. Sharon, Jo - I will wait til he is confirmed as DNC chair, then I will write to him. thanks, W, for the link to contact him. I have bookmarked it. I would love to see an ongoing thread for strategy to the DNC and some other ongoing threads on other topics. Howard is the one to do that very thing. Posted by: Nancy on February 4, 2005 02:01 AMshylurker - I am not big on the Dem Party chart. There was a station of Venus on the Venus in that chart during November 2002, and we know how that went. But if you want to use it, it shows improvement after mid-June. Posted by: Nancy on February 4, 2005 02:05 AMDoes anyone have the time for Gonzales' oath taking? I am estimating around 6 PM, but that is pretty rough. It would be about the time of the vote being completed plus approximately half an hour. Anyone have any ideas? Posted by: Nancy on February 4, 2005 02:53 AMCaptain Sally, do you have any insights to share in terms of Dean and his impact on the Dem Party and, in turn, its impact on the mess we have now? Many thanks. Posted by: shylurker on February 4, 2005 03:56 AMGonsalex sworn in approx. 6pm EST Posted by: M. on February 4, 2005 04:04 AMYou mock the integrity of Astrology with your childish prattle.
Jaycee What a great letter you wrote. My mother went to school with Kerry's first wife. He drove that poor woman insane with his vast coldness. Posted by: on February 4, 2005 04:28 AMCliss, I very much like what you wrote. SPIRITUALLY INFORMED POLITICAL ACTIVISM Many people are asking me what we can do to make a difference in our current world situation. Like a dream, our situation is fluid, impermanent and multi-dimensional. On one level, we need to connect with each other and resist Bush and Co. as much as possible. Bush and Co. are completely mad, and are criminally insane. They are creating endless unnecessary suffering, deprivation and destruction for millions of people. The Bush Administration's abuse of power literally demands us to learn new ways to step into our own creative power. Resisting Bush, though profoundly important and necessary, is itself only part of the solution. We need to step into our roles as 'spiritually informed political activists,' where spiritual understanding in-forms our actions in the world. Sally, Well, mimi, probably the absence of a name to those two posts in rapid succession should be about all we need to know. Posted by: shylurker on February 4, 2005 04:57 AMI think it's the end of * free ride with the American people. I think the "long knives' will be after him over this next year. I think his intention with that speech was to put us and Iran on notice that our way of life is at an end. Some type of treachery afoot for him, maybe someone close to him, maybe not. Psychologists call it "adaptive sub-consciousness. We call it flashes of intuition, physicists call it protons telecommunicating at a sub-atomic level, what ever people call it (and if you read the book "Blink" it will explain a great deal on the psychological level)it is the very first thought when you see an event, person, chart, situation. My very first thought when I saw this chart was "this is the end of his presidency as he thinks it will go." When we move into "processing" what we first see, that's when we become confused because our own needs and/or desires or fears get in the way. GWB is going to go down, the question is will he take us with him? and I think at least part of the way, he will. Posted by: Sally on February 4, 2005 07:44 AMGonzales (Aug. 4, 1955, San Antonio, TX The combination of these charts truly show the concept of "losing by winning." Too bad Mr. I will be unavailable for a few days, starting Sunday through Thursday but I will try to post an article regarding Gonzales upcoming travails, and Howard Dean's potential impact on the Democratic Party. By the way, I read a post on the Daily Kos that said to mark the names down of everyone who voted against Rice and Gonzales because they would be targeted for ruin, their careers, families and economically, they would also be the foundation for a new progressive party. Go to the Senate Roll Call and you can see all the Dems who voted against Gonzales, and 13 out of that group voted against Rice. Posted by: Sally on February 4, 2005 07:54 AMGonzales sworn in Gonzales was sworn in by Vice President Cheney at the White House at 4:35 Austin time, a White House spokesman said. (5:35 pm EST Washington, DC) Well, I swan Laurie, they couldn't get him sworn in fast enough, now could they? Immediately after the vote. Hmmmmmm... guess he has LOTS of work to do. Posted by: Jo on February 4, 2005 12:55 PMA few last words on the Senate’s confirmation of our new Attorney General [Note I did not say the last words on Gonzales. He may go down in history as the worst AG in our history.] Most mainstream news covered the debates as partisan opposition to the resident’s choice... NYT editorial does not, but calls it like it is: “The confirmation of Alberto Gonzales as attorney general yesterday was depressing. The president deserves a great deal of leeway in choosing his own cabinet. But beyond his other failings, Mr. Gonzales has come to represent the administration's role in paving the way for the abuse and torture of prisoners by American soldiers and intelligence agents. Giving him the nation's top legal post is a terrible signal to send the rest of the world, and to American citizens concerned with human rights. . . .” See link for more and comments relative to: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/2/4/42319/49814 Note the phrase in the NYT’s editorial “beyond his other failings”. Alberto Gonzales was part of the law firm... he was COUNSEL for Enron... before he was Counsel for the President, and he was Counsel for Gov GWB of Texas... was he simultaneously Counsel for both? I don’t know, I’m not saying he was... but fact is, like the rest of this cabel, he is up to his neck in oil and gas. While Hatch and Specter and other Repugs focused on Gonzales’ “humble” beginnings, they of course failed to mention that Humble, Texas, located outside of Houston, is named for HUMBLE OIL CO. [actually, the Humble family, which was the Humble Oil Co.]. “Exxon was formed in 1882 as the Standard Oil Company of New Jersey and in 1999 it had established Anglo-American Oil Co to market in the British Isles (later Esso Petroleum Co.; Anglo-American was apparently split as a separate company in 1911, but reacquired in 1930). In 1898 it acquired Imperial Oil Limited of Canada and interests in the Turkish Petroleum Company, later known as Iraq Petroleum Co. In 1911 Humble Oil Company was formed and in 1919 Standard Jersey became the majority partner, purchasing the balance of the company in 1959. With Socony-Vacuum it established Stanvac to control common interests in the mid-east. It became a partner with Socony-Vacuum, Socal and Texaco in Aramco in 1948 and with numerous other companies in Iran Oil Participants Ltd. In 1960 it began to market under the name Esso. The 1960s were a period of growth as Standard Jersey would purchase Monterrey Oil and Honolulu Oil. In 1972, the name was changed to Exxon.” http://www.fotw.net/flags/us~hfexx.html “The Seven Sisters of Oil are (1) Exxon (formerly Esso & Standard Oil of NJ), (2) Mobil (formerly Socony), (3) Shell, (4) British Petroleum (has part of Standard Oil of Indiana), (5) Gulf, (6) Texaco (formerly Texas Oil), & (7) Chevron (Sampson, 1975). The paternal parent of the Sisters is Standard Oil of New Jersey (known as 'Jersey') who was split apart after Ida Tarbell (1904). Chevron acquired Gulf in 1984 and Exxon Merged with Mobil. http://cbae.nmsu.edu/~dboje/enron/7sisters.htm Posted by: Jo on February 4, 2005 01:48 PMI think when the news comes out that the U.S. caused the tsunami, the tide will turn. Posted by: Peg on February 4, 2005 02:00 PMThe U.S. caused the tsunami? How so? Just curious ... Posted by: Jonathan on February 4, 2005 02:53 PMScientests worry about acidy of oceans... http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,5119443-111400,00.html Posted by: wv on February 4, 2005 03:25 PMWith my tinhat positioned at the right angle, it might be believable. http://www.vialls.com/subliminalsuggestion/tsunami.html Posted by: tinhat twizzler on February 4, 2005 03:33 PMWe were discussing the USA progressed Mars before we focused on the Gonzales' debates... so some may have overlooked the links to discussion on that. Mark Lerner sees 2005-2007 as critical... when pMars is stationing Rx... it will be Rx for about 80 years. I'm going to link his article again as well as Maya's at daykeeper, as I believe it to be an important focus for us. Nancy and Sally both have comments upthread about it. Jonathan, you might be interested in the links if you have not already read them. http://www.daykeeperjournal.com/feature.shtml http://www.mcn.org/greatbear/mars.htm Posted by: Jo on February 4, 2005 03:36 PMJonathan...yuppers good old oil boyz wiped out 150,000 people..though mostly muslim so Bushco considers it a bonus. http://pesn.com/2005/01/25/6900062_Exxon_Tripped_Indonesian_Tsunami/ Posted by: Morgana on February 4, 2005 04:18 PMSomething else that's backfired all over them. So many lives, so much of our tax dollars and it's all turned fubar. Who would've guessed? http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/02/04/MNGSMB5MDT1.DTL Posted by: shylurker on February 4, 2005 04:50 PMShylurker, dKos as news on 'real numbers' of those who voted, which are looking to be less than 10% of what the Emperor claims. Oh well, the sheeple believe he's a success, right? Just plug into the 'Borg' --- right? Don't even have to think, it will do it for you. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/2/4/11753/50824 Posted by: Jo on February 4, 2005 05:05 PMShylurker, "Of the more than 5,000 foreign nationals detained in anti-terrorism measures, not a single one stands convicted of any terrorist offense. On preventive detention, Ashcroft's record is zero for 5,000. Nor did he find a single terrorist among the 80,000 Arabs and Muslims called in for registration, or the 8,000 sought out for FBI interviews. Ashcroft boasts that he deported more than 500 people in connection with these efforts. But his policy was not to deport individuals until they were cleared of any connection to terrorism. So these are misses, not hits, in finding actual terrorists. And where are the al-Qaida sleeper cells that prompted the aggressive sweeps in the first place? The closest thing Ashcroft can point to are six young men from Lackawanna, N.Y., who followed a charismatic religious leader to an al-Qaida training camp in Afghanistan, but returned to the United States showing no interest in terrorism and undertook no activity whatsoever in furtherance of even a petty crime, much less a terrorist plot. The only criminal conviction involving an actual terrorist incident that Ashcroft can cite is that of shoe bomber Richard Reid, and he was captured not by anything the government did but simply because an alert flight attendant noticed a strange-looking man trying to light his shoe. So Ashcroft can point to few tangible results from his war on terrorism. Whether attackers have been deterred is unknowable, but if Ashcroft's efforts had actually identified real terrorists, one would expect to see them prosecuted, and we don't. While the Justice Department implemented many sensible reforms -- including increased border and airport security, more resources and attention directed at terrorism, and better information sharing -- those reforms would have been adopted by anyone in office on Sept. 12, 2001. Of most concern from a security perspective, Ashcroft's sledgehammer tactics have sparked a backlash of resentment, here and abroad, which has in turn made us substantially less safe. Anti-Americanism is at an all-time high, and one of the central complaints that fuels it is bitterness at how the rule of law has been abused in the war on terrorism, especially when it comes to foreign nationals. That unprecedented worldwide animus poses the greatest threat to our national security in the years to come. And for that, we have Ashcroft, not the Lord, to thank. Ashcroft's legacy has been to make us both less safe and less free, fulfilling Ben Franklin's prophecy that those who sacrifice essential liberty for security deserve neither. Yet the attorney general's attitude in the face of all this is perhaps best captured in the Justice Department's immediate response to its own inspector general's findings, in June 2002, that the department had brutally abused the rights of hundreds of immigrants in the sweeps that followed Sept. 11, and that none of the individuals rounded up had turned out to be terrorists: "We make no apologies." As for Gonzales, there is little reason to think he'll change course. After all, he made Ashcroft look like a moderate in the administration's internal debates over military tribunals, and dismissed the Geneva Conventions as "quaint" and "obsolete" in a memo to President Bush urging him to deny prisoner-of-war protections to those detained at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba. Gonzales requested the infamous Justice Department memo of August 2002, a detailed guide to how to torture and get away with it, and only repudiated it nearly two years later, after the Abu Ghraib scandal, and after the memo was leaked. -------- Question: If we have not found any so-called "terrorists" --- that is, we don't have any convictions... what's up with all the torture? Guess it's "torture first" - questions later. And all those Americans calling for blood (torture) of the gladiators (brown-skinned detainees)! they're xtians, alright! http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2004/11/19/justice/index1.html Posted by: Jo on February 4, 2005 05:25 PMI posted the link at the end --- those are my comments after the --------- Sorry if it is misleading. Posted by: Jo on February 4, 2005 05:29 PMPaul Krugman's latest column. GAMBLING WITH YOUR RETIREMENT for the rest of the article go to: Pat, Here is the link again to Exxon causing earthquake in Indonesia http://pesn.com/2005/01/25/6900062_Exxon_Tripped_Indonesian_Tsunami/ Posted by: Morgana on February 4, 2005 05:48 PMLaurie - Thanks for positng the Gonzales oath time. Posted by: Nancy on February 4, 2005 05:55 PMPublished on Friday, January 21, 2005 by the Sydney Morning Herald The little Corsican corporal had a few decent victories to his Difficult to know what was more repellent: the estimated $US40 million Other wartime presidents sought restraint. Abraham Lincoln's second In 1944, Franklin Delano Roosevelt opened his fourth-term speech with But restraint is not a Dubya word. Learning nothing, the dumbest and Condoleezza Rice did admit to the US Senate this week that there had Hersh reported this week that clandestine US special forces have been on "The immediate goals of the attacks would be to destroy, or at least "But there are other, equally purposeful, motives at work. The Naturally, Pentagon flacks rushed out to deny all. But then they did What terrifies me most is the people planning this new war. The CIA The Defense Secretary, the incompetent Donald Rumsfeld, has seized The other is army Lieutenant General William G. (Jerry) Boykin, whose "He's in the White House because God put him there for a time such as Be very afraid.
How many Bush adminstration officials does it take Wednesday was both Groundhog Day and the State of the Union Address. Best thing I've heard all day, wv. Thanks for the chuckle. Posted by: Teresa on February 4, 2005 07:56 PMThe Black Commentator has a new article out yesterday called Bribes + Vouchers = Black Bush Supporters... "The corporate-Republican onslaught against the Black Political Consensus, conceived in the war rooms of rightwing think tanks a decade ago, is in full fury. Massively financed by, first private, and now public dollars, the campaign to create the perception of an alternative, conservative Black “leadership” is on the march in all regions of the nation, sowing confusion and alarm among authentic African American political formations. As expected, the corporate media certified that the 22 bought-and-paid-for ministers and corporate front persons showcased at the White House last week were, indeed, “Black leaders.” “President Discusses Issues With Black Leaders,” announced the New York Times headline, featuring a photo captioned: “President Bush met with about 20 African-American leaders for a little more than an hour Tuesday.” If the New York Times considers the handpicked gaggle to be “Black leaders,” it must be true. The Associated Press said so, too. “President Bush told black leaders Tuesday that his plan to add private accounts to Social Security would benefit blacks since they tend to have shorter lives than some other Americans and end up paying in more than they get out,” said the AP article, distributed worldwide. The nation’s second most influential paper, the Washington Post, qualified the delegation’s status, describing them as “right-leaning black leaders.” Does that mean they are leaders of other “right-leaning” Blacks, or real Black leaders who happen to lean (or bend over) to the right? Interestingly, the truly rightist Washington Times gave the most straightforward account, simply calling the pretenders “14 clergy and eight executives of banks and nonprofit organizations.” The Detroit Free Press played up the local angle, noting that four area ministers were among the anointed and that Michigan organizations received $61 million in faith-based money in 2003 out of $12 billion dollars distributed, nationwide – the magnetic monetary pull that drew Bush’s Black minions to his service. By any measurement, the senior Black mercenary present was Robert L. Woodson, president of the National Center for Neighborhood Enterprise, former aid to Newt Gingrich, recipient since 1995 of more than $6 million in rightwing foundation money, and now riding first-class on the federal faith-based gravy train. Orchestrating the show were the two men most responsible for keeping the money flowing: Jim Towey, director of Bush's Faith-based and Community Initiatives, and chief White House strategist Karl Rove, who makes sure faith-based grants and contracts are manipulated for maximum political effect – more Tom for the buck, so to speak." Read rest of the article at http://blackcommentator.org/124/124_black_bush_supporters.html Posted by: Jo on February 4, 2005 08:02 PM" Wednesday was both Groundhog Day and the State of the Union Address. Air America Radio called it an ironic juxtaposition: One involves a Even more ironic is millions of earth centered religions celebrated the return of the Goddess at Imbolc and also known as Candlemas, and The Festival of Light on Wednesday. At this time the Goddess returns and renews life. May that Light shine upon the darkness that has fallen upon our nation. Posted by: Morgana on February 4, 2005 08:03 PMSorry, I have to comment that I think posting "oil drilling caused the tsunami" contributes to the 'nutcase' image. While I think the oil industry has a lot to answer for in other areas, this theory does not hold up to logic. First, if the argument that oil drilling caused the massive earthquake were true, by that same logic, you would expect that middle east regions, russia, the north sea, texas, venezuela and the carribean to be hotbeds of earthquake activity. They are not. In addition, if some research is done, you will find the amount of gas and oil that is extracted from the indonesian area is small in comparison to other areas around the globe. Second, the depth of wells are by comparison very shallow. Most of the recent earthquakes were at least 20-30 kilometers deep - some much, much deeper. While it is true that drilling can trigger small, shallow earth movements, it is important to consider the depth and magnitude before assigning blame to anyone besides nature herself. If the drilling were solely to blame, that would also discount the astrological theory of planet lineup causing extra stress. Posted by: Jeanie on February 4, 2005 11:53 PMNutcase image, moi? Naw, I'll entertain the thought that there are kernals of truth here, while enjoy a spring day in the middle of winter... Posted by: Morgana on February 5, 2005 12:01 AMRobert P. Blaschke has a new newsletter and it is a whopper. Go to his site and hit "newsletter."
"May that Light shine upon the darkness that has fallen upon our nation." Amen Morgana. :) re: the tsunami: I'm really glad to have researched this subject again, because I have found information showing that it wasn't directly caused by the U.S. (my apologies) Asian Tsunami: Natural Disaster? Or Nuclear Test? During his press conference at the Jakarta summit, United Nations Emergency Relief Coordinator Jan Egeland took time to address a rumour -- apparently rife in the Arab world -- that the Boxing Day earthquake had been triggered by an Indian nuclear experiment. While conspiracy theories generally abound in the wake of any large scale disaster, this one appears to have sprung from the Arab press -- or, at least, to have been given credibility by it. Israeli news outlets, which keep close tabs on Arab language news outlets, have reported sightings of the story in Arab newspapers. Both the Jerusalem Post and Arutz Sheva report that a prominent Egyptian weekly -- identified variously as Al-Osboa and Al-Usbu -- claims that India, in its heated nuclear race with Pakistan, has lately received sophisticated nuclear technology from the United States and Israel. The paper claims, according to these reports, that India has been experimenting with this technology -- and other nuclear devices -- in the region of the Indian Ocean known as 'the Fire Belt,' which housed the epicenter of the earthquake.It said that both Israel and India are conducting nuclear tests in the Indian Ocean, and the United States has recently decided to carry out similar tests in the Australian deserts, which, it said, is also part of the Fire Belt. Abutz Sheva said the paper reported: "The three most recent tests appeared to be genuine American and Israeli preparations to act together with India to test a way to liquidate humanity. "In the most recent test, they began destroying entire cities over extensive areas. Although the nuclear explosions were carried out in desert lands, tens of thousand of kilometers away from populated areas, they had a direct effect on these Asian areas," according to the weekly. The JPost said the paper reported a history of failed attempts at intervention by Islamic states. JPost said the paper reported: "Last year only, Arab and Islamic states have asked the United States to stop its nuclear activities in that region, and to urge Israel and India to follow suite." JPost said: Although Al-Osboa' does not rule out the possibility that the tsunami could have been caused by a natural earthquake it speculates however that, "while it has not been proved yet, there has been a joint Israeli-Indian secret nuclear experiment [conducted on December 26] that caused the earthquake." From tsunami, back to torture.............. And his "wrap" is a trip! http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/020405Z.shtml Jeanie, Thank you for so succintly putting into words my own doubts about the US or the oil companies being at fault for that horrible tsunami. With all due respect, it did sound a bit too "tin hat" for my tastes. And there was A LOT of astrological factors at that time. Maya del Mar's site has a wonderful article which is, I believe, linked somewhere above. Posted by: Jonathan on February 5, 2005 02:41 AMdue respect my ass Jonathon. Your post reeks of condescension. Personally, I believe that so-called conspiracy theories are the epitome of creative minds unravelling the b.s. to get to the truth. Ever hear of Watergate? Posted by: Peg on February 5, 2005 04:18 AMWell, if you do some investigating you will find that it was a shallow earthquake that caused the tifal wave, now a deep disturbance. These thoughts may make you squirm, but further thought is certainly called for. The military has been developing alternative weapons for years now. Warfare without boots on the ground is a real goal. Just my two cents. Posted by: Pat C on February 5, 2005 04:30 AMMy apologies for not proofing my last post. Here it is in better shape, with an additonal thought. Well, if you do some investigating you will find that it was a shallow earthquake that caused the tidal wave, not a deep disturbance. These thoughts may make you squirm, but further thought is certainly called for. The military has been developing alternative weapons for years now. Warfare without boots on the ground is a real goal. It would take a cold, selfish administration to use such weapong...
I should not type tonight. Posted by: Pat C on February 5, 2005 04:40 AMPatC - I beg to differ with your viewpoint. The earthquake that caused the tidal wave was at a depth of 30 kilometers, which in geological terms is pretty shallow, but is still very far from the surface. Having lived on the island of Hawaii for a number of years, volcanic and earthquake activity became an interest of mine. Magnitude: 9.0 Location: 3.307° N 95.947° E Felt Reports: This is the fourth largest earthquake in the world since 1900 and is the largest since the 1964 Prince William Sound, Alaska earthquake. The tsunami caused more casualties than any other in recorded history. In total, more than 220,272 people were killed, 22,352 are still listed as missing and 1,076,350 were displaced in South Asia and East Africa. At least 173,981 people were killed by the earthquake and tsunami in Indonesia. Tsunamis killed at least 29,854 people in Sri Lanka, 10,749 in India, 5,313 in Thailand, 150 in Somalia, 82 in Maldives, 68 in Malaysia, 59 in Myanmar, 10 in Tanzania, 3 in Seychelles, 2 in Bangladesh and 1 in Kenya. Tsunamis caused damage in Madagascar and Mauritius and also occurred in Mozambique, South Africa, Australia and Antarctica. The tsunami crossed into the Pacific and Atlantic Oceans and was recorded in New Zealand and along the west and east coasts of South and North America. The earthquake was felt (VIII) at Banda Aceh and (V) at Medan, Sumatra and (II-IV) in parts of Bangladesh, India, Malaysia, Maldives, Myanmar, Singapore, Sri Lanka and Thailand. Subsidence and landslides were observed in Sumatra. A mud volcano near Baratang, Andaman Islands began erupting on December 28. (last updated 01/26/05) I'm sick to death of coming here and posting my thoughts in the most polite way I know only to be accused of being condescending. It's unfair, it's uncalled for and it's something which should not be found on this Board. I am anything but condescending. I'm sorry if I don't immediately subscribe to tin foil hat theories, but that's my personal preference. To blatantly accuse me of being condescending is unfair and should be, by our Moderator, designated as a Personal Attack. And one I take great umbrage to. Enough said. Over and out. Posted by: Jonathan on February 5, 2005 05:32 AMJonathan, I agreed with your post above and thought the comments below your post were unfair and over the top. You are never, ever, ever condescending. Don't take it to heart as it did not speak for the majority of us I'm sure. Posted by: Laurie on February 5, 2005 06:19 AMWow! It looks like it's really going to happen! Donnie Fowler's out; endorses Dean for DNC
Donnie Fowler has just endorsed Gov. Howard Dean to be Chairman of the Democratic National Committee (DNC). Donnie Fowler said, "Today it became clear that Howard Dean has the votes to become DNC chairman." I got in the race because I wanted to see change in the Democratic Party. I know from experience that local people know better and that strong state parties and successful elected officials should teach the rest of the Party their best lessons. I want to see the DNC get back to its real mission: to help each candidate and assist state and county parties to achieve new standards or performance. With Howard Dean as its next chair of the DNC, the Party will have someone who not only understands change, but knows how to make it happen. As a presidential candidate and as a candidate for Chair, Dean has brought with him a grassroots movement that will reinvigorate the Democrats with new activism and new voters. As a former governor and former Chair of the Democratic Governors Association, Governor Dean also knows the value of respecting and including those who are most loyal to the Party. It's the best of the new and the traditional. And the Democratic Party will be better for it."
Wow! It looks like it's really going to happen! Donnie Fowler's out; endorses Dean for DNC Donnie Fowler has just endorsed Gov. Howard Dean to be Chairman of the Democratic National Committee (DNC). Donnie Fowler said, "Today it became clear that Howard Dean has the votes to become DNC chairman." I got in the race because I wanted to see change in the Democratic Party. I know from experience that local people know better and that strong state parties and successful elected officials should teach the rest of the Party their best lessons. I want to see the DNC get back to its real mission: to help each candidate and assist state and county parties to achieve new standards or performance. With Howard Dean as its next chair of the DNC, the Party will have someone who not only understands change, but knows how to make it happen. As a presidential candidate and as a candidate for Chair, Dean has brought with him a grassroots movement that will reinvigorate the Democrats with new activism and new voters. As a former governor and former Chair of the Democratic Governors Association, Governor Dean also knows the value of respecting and including those who are most loyal to the Party. It's the best of the new and the traditional. And the Democratic Party will be better for it."
Jeanie, re: the eathquakes:http://www.reformation.org/nuclear-tsunamis.html Posted by: Peg on February 5, 2005 08:44 PMPeg, this webpage is pretty dramatic agreed, but, consider the source............. Tsunami's and earthquakes have been happening since before man's recorded history! The Japanese name that goes back eons into history, means harbor wave. In recent years researchers have been able to tie interruptions in growth rings of some of the oldest trees on the coast in Washington and Oregon states, to historical tales of great waves and earthquakes that happened in Japan - from memory, one went back to around 1500 AD. Also, they are looking further to fossil evidence dating back 30,000 years or so. A lot more to be learned and the studies continue. The fact that there may, or may not, have been a hydrogen bomb test April 1st 1946 in Alaska does not tell me anything. Where in Alaska was the test? Was it underground or atmospheric? What was its size? And was it anywhere near the same area of the earthquake epicenter - the Alaska Peninsula? Here is a link to a page that talks about tsunamis in Alaska. No early history was ever recorded because of sparse populations. The earliest tsunami recorded of was in 1788, 4 years after the first Russian settlement of 1784 Just a FYI, the reason that we know so much more about earthquakes and tsunamis these days, is because the Pacific Warning System was put in place after that 1946 earthquake. It became operational in 1948 and they have continued to make equipment monitoring improvements since then. Hope this info helps in some way. Posted by: Jeanie on February 6, 2005 02:48 AMyes, Jeanie it is very interesting. thanks. I looked at the source, and knew there were at least questions concerning the Indonesion quake, but I still thought it was info. worth passing along to you :) here's something else if you want to skim over: http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=news_international&Number=293344685#Post293344685 Posted by: Peg on February 6, 2005 03:09 AMPeg, went to reformation.org again and what I see is unbelievable. All articles are written by one Leon Kilkenny - check out his "about us" section. Comes across as a holy-roller nutcase to me, not credible at all - refers to "United States of Cabotia" in honor of John Cabot. Posted by: Jeanie on February 6, 2005 03:16 AMPeg, were this an area that was not near any fault lines, tectonic plates, or volcanic activity, I might look at things closer. But that just simply is not the case here. okay Jeanie. I respect your opinion because it certainly looks like you know your "stuff". Yes again, I agree that the credibility of the source was in serious doubt, but gosh, it was interesting :) Thank you for all you've posted on this subject. 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