Excellent article Isabelle, I would have never thought of Cromwell as a reference point for what is happening now. It is so apt!

It's always so reassuring to go back to astrological history isn't it Isabelle. I love it. Scientists say that the same amount of energy is a constant on earth, no matter who is born or dies or what buildings go up or torn down, the level of energy stays a constant. Energy just keeps coming around and morphing into something or someone else, and astrology shows so clearly the tie to everything in history. When we bombed Kosovo it could be traced to the very first war in that area in the 11th century.

Great article and we all need to be reminded that situations such as we have now have happened before, will happen again and people survived.

Thanks for the comments Isabelle. I hope that one day we will realize the cycle, that has gripped us, to re-live the past, what a curse. It's time to stop the insanity! A few quotes that help the understanding of Theocracy 'Puritanism' and it's dangers.....

"Man is a Religious Animal. He is the only Religious Animal. He is the only animal that has the True Religion--several of them. He is the only animal that loves his neighbor as himself and cuts his throat if his theology isn't straight. He has made a graveyard of the globe in trying his honest best to smooth his brother's path to happiness and heaven....The higher animals have no religion. And we are told that they are going to be left out in the Hereafter. I wonder why? It seems questionable taste."
- "The Lowest Animal" - MARK TWAIN

"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination, from authorities who have not themselves examined the questions at issue but have taken them at second-hand from other non-examiners, whose opinions about them were not worth a brass farthing."
- Autobiography of Mark Twain

So much blood has been shed by the Church because of an omission from the Gospel: "Ye shall be indifferent as to what your neighbor's religion is." Not merely tolerant of it, but indifferent to it. Divinity is claimed for many religions; but no religion is great enough or divine enough to add that new law to its code.
- Mark Twain, a Biography

We despise all reverences and all the objects of reverence which are outside the pale of our own list of sacred things. And yet, with strange inconsistency, we are shocked when other people despise and defile the things which are holy to us.
- Following the Equator - MARK TWAIN

And yet another view emerges, one that says true spirtuality, as Twain said, is about respecting others...... another view.....

Democrats Needed and Need a Spiritual/Religious Left

....Yet liberals, trapped in a
long-standing disdain for religion and tone-deaf to the spiritual needs that underlie the move to the Right, have been unable to engage these voters in a serious dialogue. Rightly angry at the way that some religious communities have been mired in authoritarianism, racism, sexism and homophobia, the liberal world has developed such a knee-jerk hostility to religion that it has both marginalized those many people on the Left who actually do have spiritual yearnings and simultaneously refused to acknowledge that many who move to the Right have legitimate complaints about the ethos of selfishness in American life.

Imagine if John Kerry had been able to counter George Bush by insisting that a serious religious person would never turn his back on the suffering of the poor, that the bible's injunction to love one's neighbor required us to provide health care for all, and that the New Testament's command to "turn the other cheek" should give us a predisposition against responding to violence with violence.

Imagine a Democratic Party that could talk about the strength that comes from love and generosity and applied that to foreign policy and homeland security.

Imagine a Democratic Party that could talk of a New Bottom Line, so that American institutions get judged efficient, rational and productive not only to the extent that they maximize money and power, but also to the extent that they maximize people's capacities to be loving and caring, ethically and ecologically sensitive, and capable of responding to the universe with awe and wonder.......

http://www.tikkun.org/index.cfm/action/current/article/273.html

(Question is this realistic? To campaign that True Spirtuality is about caring about the poor, the enviorment, the less fortunant, the uninsured, the unemployed, the undesirables of society. Will this end America's fixation on the 'survival of the fittest' attitude?)

John Kerry did say that one should judge another by his acts and deeds, not by what he claims to be. I don't think we should cater to the religious right, I don't want to live in their world.

Great article Isabelle.

Excellent article Isabelle, and so darn apt! Pluto is doing fine work. That new budget cuts the Pell Grants.

http://tinyurl.com/6v5nl

Right-Wing Chilling Effect Makes 'Reproductive Rights' Too Hot for Public Radio

WASHINGTON, D.C., Nov 22 (OneWorld) The refusal by a North Carolina affiliate of National Public Radio (NPR) to run an underwriting announcement by a local group that carries out family-planning activities abroad is raising fears that the leadership of federal regulatory agencies may try to enforce a new kind of right-wing political correctness.

Coming in the wake of the cut-off of funds to HIV (news - web sites)/AIDS (news - web sites) prevention organization that discuss men who have sex with men and the investigation by the Internal Revenue Service (news - web sites) (IRS) of the National Association for the Advanced of Colored People (NAACP), the action by the Chapel Hill-based WUNC radio station is being cited as evidence of a growing chilling effect on free expression.

A statement released Thursday by 22 national feminist, health and population organizations decrying WUNCs refusal to run an underwriting statement that identified the sponsor, Ipas, as a non-profit group that protects womens reproductive rights, charged that the decision threatens the very concept of free speech.

We are both outraged and saddened by WUNCs decision to cave in to the implicit threats of the Bush administration and are hopeful that they will recognize that a free press has a duty to defend the right of free speech, declared the letter, which was signed by Population Connection, the International Planned Parenthood (news - web sites) Federation (IPPF), the Womens Edge Coalition, and the Population Connection, among others.

Ipas, which provided family-planning and reproductive-health training, research, advocacy, and supplies in some 40 countries on five continents, began underwriting programming at the rate of about US$1,700 a month at WUNC last February. In return, the radio station, which is based at the University of North Carolina campus, ran occasional on-air acknowledgements of Ipas support.

The original announcement read: Ipas, a Chapel Hill-based nonprofit that protects womens reproductive health and rights at home and abroad. More information available at www.ipas.org. In October, however, the station informed Ipas that the word rights would not longer be permitted.

After several weeks of negotiation over the wording, Ipas announced Friday that it would was ending its underwriting arrangement. We highly value WUNC listeners and want to inform them about our work, said Ipas president Elizabeth Maguire, but there is no alternative language. Promoting reproductive rights is half Ipas mission, and WUNCs position denies Ipas the right to describe itself accurately and completely.

WUNC general manager Joan Siefert Rose defended the decision, describing it as a precautionary measure designed to protect the station from possible action by the Federal Communications Commission (news - web sites) (FCC (news - web sites)).

As a noncommercial broadcaster, she told Associated Press, we are not allowed to broadcast donor acknowledgments that include language with political meaning. My first responsibility is to be a good steward of our FCC license.

While Rose conceded that the FCC has never defined reproductive rights as falling within the proscribed category for advertisers or underwriters, she stressed that the FCC can still punish stations retroactively if it determines that the words should not have been aired.

They dont tell you what you can and cannot do, she said, comparing the situation to ABCs decision last week against airing Saving Private Ryan for fear that the FCC might find that its graphic violence and language violated its regulations.

Reproductive rights has indeed become politically controversial under the Bush administration which has repeatedly tried usually without success to have the phrase deleted from communiqus and declarations at international conferences. Administration officials have described the phrase as implicitly asserting a womans right to have an abortion a notion with which it and its Christian Right constituency strongly disagree.

Its efforts to undermine the concept reproductive rights have also included its last-minute withdrawal of funding for a major international health conference in Washington last spring because one of the featured speakers had publicly attacked the priority given by the administration to its abstinence-only agenda and the imposition of the so-called Global Gag Rule.

The gag rule forbids foreign non-governmental agencies that receive U.S. foreign aid from engaging in any abortion-related activities - including even providing information about abortion to their medical clients or lobbying their own governments to ease anti-abortion laws -- even if they use their own money for those purposes.

More....

http://www.opensecrets.org/

Who gives

http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=247894&printmode=1

The Return of the Fox-like FCC

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_U.S._Election_controversies_and_irregularities

Our current Comwellians...

http://reese.king-online.com/Reese_20030423/index.php

WV that Charlie Reese column was fantastic. It's the continuation of the Charlie Reese's that give some of out here hope and a realistic eye to our place in history, this will end. Sooner rather than later would be great, but it will end because history dictates it and he reminds us of that.

Holy Cromwellian Batman ! I didn't think I'd be living through this, again !
(my body is having sympathetic-past-life-pains)
So, Oliver & his henchmen have reincarnated as Lord Shrub & his minions,,,,,,
Amazing.
Here is some very interesting reading, - (you're right, the pilgrims never left.)

http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/FreeCongressEssay.html

Scroll down to;"Still Engaged - But Outside of Politics", paragraph #3.

Funny, no one wants to send their descendants back where they came from.,,,,
,,,, We stuff this myth-history into our children's beliefs about a boatload of
wonderful people who came and settled in this country, - once again making killing,
torturing, and destroying the native people of the land "the right thing to do", - then,
turn around and "celebrate" their arrival / survival on this continent.
We are incredible beings........
hmmmmm,,,, in 2504, will the Iraqi people be sitting around a nice white, imported
turkey, with toxic juice dripping,,,, - - asking themselves the same questions ?
'Wondering why this scenario has come around again,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Just thinking out loud,,,,,,

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Then,,,, there is this, - already, "they" have taken the words "reproductive rights" and "women's rights"
out of our "legal vocabulary"..... God help us. Please.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=655&ncid=655&e=2&u=/oneworld/20041122/wl_oneworld/4536983061101133419

Ooops, I did mean to include my signature.
Thanks for the opportunity to vent.

EVERYBODY might want to think about writing their Representatives and beg, urge, demand, that they be continually blocking, filibustering, advertising, and grabbing the bully pulpit to stop the neocons at the helm.

I have always got a laugh when people brag
that their ancestors came over on the Mayflower.
I would try like hell to hide it.

Isabelle, what a fascinating look at the Cromwellian connections.
Mark Twain is my favorite (thanks Jamsmitty), I have always loved how his mind worked and have one of my favorite quotes from "The Stranger" on my website!
For Thanksgiving Day my son is attending a pow wow on Alacatraz Island, sunrise service. We have a big turkey bird which we're cooking (while he braves the early morning cold) and having a open house for the young indigo's in our neck of the woods whose families aren't around.
I come from both worlds American Colonist/Native American, both of which produced mostly non christian offspring generations of us. I'll take the two day paid holiday :) and enjoy every minute.

Laurie, I don't live in their world either. There are lot's of us more then most think.

Excellent piece Isabelle. Thank you for sharing it.

Namaste

Very good and insightful article Isabelle.
What were the other religions and thinkers doing
while Cromwell was taking over? Did they move
to other countries or hide? It does sound like
what we have in America now.
The reason I ask is because I just ran across
this idea about GW43 that says he is
like a "place-holder" not any kind of leader. [In
mathematics, a place-holder is used to hold the
energy of a place while solutions are computed
around it.] What if, metaphorically, he is
facilitating the rest of the world shifting and
changing. He is causing many other peoples to
move around to other locations. Could this be
evening up the consciousness of the planet? In
short he is a catalyst for change. And the changes
are going to "prune" the planet of old ways of thinking.
Maybe how the world reacts to him is the
key to our future and everyone has to be torn off their
comfortable fences and forced to deal with a new way of thinking.

when you hear and see all these extreme fundamentalists of christianity saying that God
elected the bozo, God told them this and that,
does it mean that their votes didn't elect bozo
OR that they didn't vote for bozo OR didn't vote at all, since it was God who elected their idol.
Also I'm wondering if God sends them telegrams and
letters saying what to demand, since they say God
told them such and such. Are they a bunch of hallucinated, confused people in those red neck areas?

http://www.tompaine.com/articles/debtor_nation.php

Debtor Nation

Robert B. Reich

Robert Reich, Paul Krugman, Stephen Roach. All say the economy is tanking. Not might tank. Not eventually tank. It's happening. Here, Robert Reich sketches out the sources of our self-made economic hole. Debt—both consumer and federal. This is the real deal, folks.

Robert B. Reich is the Maurice B. Hexter Professor of Social and Economic Policy at Brandeis University, and was the secretary of labor under former President Bill Clinton.

The holiday buying season is upon us. You might as well spend your cash now because the dollar is dropping like a stone in international currency markets. It’s dropped nearly 30 percent since 2001, and is now at a record low. Even without the recent dour pronouncements of Alan Greenspan and Treasury Secretary John Snow, the greenback is likely to fall further. And the reason is simple: We’re living beyond our means. American consumers are deep in debt. The nation is importing more than we’re exporting. Most importantly, the federal budget deficit is out of control.

Nearly all of the increase in public debt over the last four years -- some 1 trillion dollars -- has been financed by foreigners, lending us the money. But who wants to lend more and more to a drunken sailor? Foreigners are bailing out of dollars. Even the Chinese and Japanese, who have kept lending so we’ll keep buying their exports, are starting to wise up.

American exporters are cheering because a lower dollar makes everything they sell abroad cheaper. But it’s bad for the rest of us because as the dollar drops everything we buy from abroad -- including oil -- becomes that much more expensive. And these higher prices will ripple through the economy, threatening inflation and higher interest rates -- and, ultimately, reducing our living standards.

More....

Hmmm. Morgana, I use to sing with a drum at pow wows. I traveled all over the country. It was a very serious experience. I never got to go to one on Thanksgiving day, even though I know there are some, but I bet it will be interesting. I know of no native americans who have any love of either Columbus, or the pilgrims. I hope you'll give us a synopsis of the focus of the pow wow.

"Dad...it bothers me the way the other kids in school talk about America. I'm an American, after all. And they say that the country is really going crazy now that Bush has been elected for another term...that we're going to attack other countries...and that most Americans thought it was okay to shoot those Iraqi prisoners...and that they're going to arrest doctors who perform abortions and try them for murder. They say that the Christian fundamentalists are acting like Puritans at the Salem Witch trials and things like that. I don't really keep up with the news. And I don't like Bush either, but I can't believe they're right about America...It's not true, is it?"

Daily Reckoning

Oh yes, child, it's true I'm sorry to say.

A small historical note.

The folk who first landed in New England were Separatists, not Puritans, and the origin of their voyage was Delftshaven, The Netherlands, on the Speedwell; Plymouth, England was only a stop on the trip. There they met up with the members of the sponsoring company's expedition whose charge was to establish a cod fishing industry in Plymouth (in the New World),but the company's members were all secular, not Puritans. Speedwell proved unseaworthy for the voyage across the Northern Atlantic, so both Separatists and company employees (which included Miles Standish) traveled cramed into the small (by our standards) Mayflower for the long and dangerous voyage.

If you google Bradford's Plymouth Diary, I think the whole story will come up.The traditional history is very honorable,but not the real tale.

The Puritans came later to established the Massachusettes Colony and held a very different set of beliefs from the Separatists. The bad deeds at Salem were their doing. Separatists, who established the Plymouth Colony, had already fled England for Holland in about 1606 at the time of King John's return to Catholic beliefs contrary to Henry's and Elizabeth's championing the Church of England. The American Pilgrims lived in Holland for more than a decade before journeying to the New World.

There is a beautiful church dedicated to these stallwarts and a marker at Delftshaven near Rotterdam's mamouth harbor at the place where they departed on Speedwell for England.

Happy Thanksgiving

My gawd, Isabelle, it does seem that history keeps repeating and repeating itself. Sometimes it feels like the groung hog day of history.

Thanks so much for this wonderful, enlightening article. It also serves as a reminder that this republican hell is temporary--nothing lasts.

Bloody cheek!

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/printer_112504W.shtml

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Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 4:26 PM
Subject: ICH: Tom Hayden: How to End the Iraq War:

> Once a government is committed to the principle of silencing the voice of opposition, it has only one way to go, and that is down the path of increasingly repressive measures, until it becomes a source of terror to all its citizens and creates a country where everyone lives in fear: Harry S Truman
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> Exposed: The Carlyle Group
>
> Shocking documentary uncovers the subversion of Americas democracy.
>
> I defy you to watch this 48 minute documentary and not be outraged about the depth of corruption and deceit within the highest ranks of our government
>
> Watch it online now!
> http://207.44.245.159/article3995.htm
>
> ===
>
>
> 3 Kurdish Fighters Killed in Northern Iraq:
>
> Gunmen ambushed a convoy of Kurdish militiamen as they traveled to the northern Iraqi city of Mosul on Wednesday, killing three and wounding nine, hospital sources in the nearby town of Arbil said.
> http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=6908494
>
> http://snipurl.com/avlw
>
> ===
>
> Mosul: Two killed in attack on deputy Iraqi governor convoy :
>
> A convoy of Nineveh province's deputy governor came under fire Wednesday in Iraq's northern city of Mosul, killing one of his bodyguards and a member of the Interior Ministry special forces, the deputy governor said.
> http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2004-11/24/content_2257291.htm
>
> ===
>
> Two dead in Kirkuk as ''Zarqawi'' slams Muslim scholars :
>
> Gunmen in the northern city of Kirkuk attacked Iraqi National Guard forces, killing one soldier and a civilian in the drive-by shooting, the US military said Wednesday.
> http://www.albawaba.com/news/index.php3?sid=289523&lang=e&dir=news
>
> http://snipurl.com/avlx
>
> ===
>
> Two killed in Baghdad suicide car bomb:
>
> Suicide car bomb attack kills two in Kharkh district of western Baghdad, person filming explosion arrested.
> http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=11978
>
> ===
>
> Blast Kills Two U.S. Soldiers in Afghanistan:
>
> Two U.S. soldiers were killed and one wounded on Wednesday in a blast caused by an improvised bomb while they were on patrol in central Afghanistan, the U.S. military said.
> http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=6908624
>
> http://snipurl.com/avly
>
> ===
>
> Afghanistan: 5 US soldiers killed in Nangarhar explosion :
>
> According to Radio Tehran, these soldiers were killed when a US tank was destroyed by a landmine explosion. Iindependent sources have not confirmed this claim.
> http://www.paktribune.com/news/index.php?id=84439
>
> ===
>
> Fallujah: Witnesses say US forces killed unarmed civilians:
>
> A large number of people including children were killed by American snipers. US forces refused repeated calls for medical aid for injured civilians, they said.
> http://207.44.245.159/article7361.htm
>
> ===
>
> Frayed nerves on Baghdad streets leading to `friendly-fire' incidents:
>
> In a sign of the hair-trigger nerves on the streets of Baghdad, U.S. troops and Iraqi police sometimes mistakenly fire at cars carrying friendly foreign-security contractors, even setting off helter-skelter gunfights.
> http://207.44.245.159/article7362.htm
>
> ===
>
> Rebels' killings intensify in Mosul :
>
> Iraq Insurgents are kidnapping and killing Iraqi soldiers and national guardsmen with shocking regularity in Mosul, the third-largest city in Iraq and the scene of a ferocious insurgent uprising two weeks ago that followed the U.S.-led invasion of Falluja.
> http://www.iht.com/bin/print_ipub.php?file=/articles/2004/11/23/news/mosul.html
>
> http://snipurl.com/avm0
>
> ===
>
> Iraqi Journalist Tells of U.S. Captivity:
>
> An Iraqi journalist who stayed in Fallujah to report on the battle for his hometown says he and hundreds of other civilians who eventually turned themselves in to escape the violence suffered tough, sometimes humiliating, treatment from American and Iraqi guards.
> http://www.sanluisobispo.com/mld/sanluisobispo/news/world/10256509.htm
>
> http://snipurl.com/avm1
>
> ===
>
> Dead-Check in Falluja:
>
> "What does the American public think happens when they tell us to assault a city?" one of them said. "Marines don't shoot rainbows out of our asses. We *ucking kill people."
> http://207.44.245.159/article7359.htm
>
> ===
>
> Shoot the Messenger :
>
> When Darrin Mortenson, a former embed for a California paper, defended the NBC reporter who videotaped a U.S. Marine in Fallujah executing an injured insurgent, he got a lot of hate mail. "Go back to Iraq with a target on your back," wrote one.
> http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/columns/pressingissues_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000725240
>
> http://snipurl.com/avm2
>
> ===
>
> Medics testify to Fallujah's horrors:
>
> The first time Jose Ramirez saw a human body ripped apart by a rocket, it took hours for him to regain his composure. Nothing in his training as a Navy medical corpsman had prepared him for the sight of the dead Marine brought in September to the military field hospital outside Fallujah.
> http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6570940/
>
> ===
>
> Woman dies after seeing soldier son's body:
>
> A woman who collapsed and died hours after viewing the body of her son killed while serving in Iraq suffered a heart attack, authorities said.
> http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/apus_story.asp?category=1110&slug=BRF%20Soldier%20Mom's%20Death
>
> ===
>
> Tom Hayden: How to End the Iraq War:
>
> Instead of assuming that the Bush administration has an "exit strategy", the movement needs to force our government to exit. The strategy must be to deny the U.S. occupation funding, political standing, sufficient troops, and alliances necessary to their strategy for dominance.
> http://207.44.245.159/article7365.htm
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> A Formula for Perpetual War:
>
> George Bush has declared war on "international terrorism," and Putin and Sharon have eagerly joined up, using that war as an excuse to justify any act of oppression. By treating militant forces as criminals and responding only with force, the three leaders are guaranteeing that the "war on terrorism" will have no end.
> http://www.wrmea.com/archives/November_2004/0411006.html
>
> ===
>
> Video: Israeli Soldiers Going In For The Kill:
>
> A 13 year old Palestinian school girl is about to die.
> http://207.44.245.159/article7363.htm
>
> ===
>
> Israeli officer: I was right to shoot 13-year-old child :
>
> An Israeli army officer who repeatedly shot a 13-year-old Palestinian girl in Gaza dismissed a warning from another soldier that she was a child by saying he would have killed her even if she was three years old.
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1358173,00.html
>
> ===
>
> IDF chief: probe of killing of girl, 13, was 'grave failure' :
>
> According to witness accounts by soldiers serving in the area, after the girl was mortally wounded by troops firing from the Girit outpost near Rafah, the commander of a Givati infantry company at the site fired an entire magazine of automatic fire at her prone body.
> http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/505715.html
>
> ===
>
> Abbas supports Arafat path:
>
> "We will not fall silent until our right of return is exercised and the plight of the refugees is solved," he added.
> http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,11483087%255E1702,00.html
>
> http://snipurl.com/avm5
>
> ===
>
> Former Israeli army chief Rafael Eitan drowns:
>
> Eitan, who became an outspoken rightist politician who once said Arabs should be placed in a bottle like drugged cockroaches, was swept into stormy seas at the Ashdod port on Tuesday
> http://www.swisspolitics.org/en/news/index.php?section=int&page=news_inhalt&news_id=5357493
>
> http://snipurl.com/avm6
>
> ===
>
> Video: Mosaic: World News Reports from Middle East TV For 11/23/04:
>
> The nation's only uncensored compilation of daily television news reports from more than 15 countries in the Middle East. QuickTime Video.
> http://snipurl.com/avm7
>
> ===
>
> UK: Home Office 'linked to discredited claim of al-Qa'ida plot':
>
> Supporters of David Blunkett were accused of trying to exploit public fears in an attempt to help the Government introduce anti-terrorism legislation.
> http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/crime/story.jsp?story=586062
>
> ===
>
> US rejects Ukraine poll result
>
> Sarah Left, George Wright and agencies
>
> A supporter of Viktor Yanukovich waves a blue flag as a Yushchenko supporter drives past in a car decorated with orange ribbons in central Kiev, Ukraine. Photograph: Alexander Zemlianichenko/AP
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/ukraine/story/0,15569,1358483,00.html
>
> ===
>
> The US secretary of state, Colin Powell, today said his government refused to accept the results of the Ukrainian presidential election, which has been marred by reports of widespread electoral fraud.
>
> Ukraine political crisis deepens
>
> Declared victor seeks talks with opponent; U.S. rejects vote results
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6374820/
>
> ===
>
> Chavez visit to Spain sparks coup controversy:
>
> Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez's fence-mending visit to Spain sparked political uproar on Tuesday when Madrid for the first time backed his allegations that the former Spanish government backed a coup against him.
> http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L23375923.htm
>
> ===
>
> U.S. kept quiet on Chávez plot:
>
> The U.S. government knew of an imminent plot to oust Venezuela's leftist president, Hugo Chávez, in the weeks prior to a 2002 military coup that briefly unseated him, newly released CIA documents show, despite White House claims to the contrary a week after the putsch.
> http://www.nynewsday.com/news/nationworld/world/ny-wovene244053424nov24,0,5440783.story?coll=ny-worldnews-headlines
>
> http://snipurl.com/avm8
>
> ===
>
> U.S. Media Miss Rumsfeld's 'Dirty Wars' Talk :
>
> If three, five, or 10 years from now, Latin America returns to the military dictatorships and ''dirty wars'' of its all-too-recent past, analysts may point to the past week's conference in Quito of the hemisphere's defence ministers -- and particularly Pentagon chief Donald Rumsfeld's role in it -- as a milestone in that journey.
> http://www.ipsnews.net/africa/interna.asp?idnews=26410
>
> ===
>
> Rumsfeld in Nicaragua : The reason?: Fallujah and SAM-7s.:
>
> It is unlikely that the peoples of Latin America are likely to ignore the experience of Iraq, of Fallujah. They may well consider it simple prudence to prepare adequately for armed resistance to the coming aggressions being planned against them by the government of the United States and its local allies in the region.
> http://207.44.245.159/article7360.htm
>
> ===
>
> Economic `Armageddon' predicted:
>
> Stephen Roach, the chief economist at investment banking giant Morgan Stanley, has a public reputation for being bearish. His prediction: America has no better than a 10 percent chance of avoiding economic ``armageddon.''
> http://207.44.245.159/article7364.htm
>
> ===
>
> Krugman: Economic Crisis a Question of When, Not If:
>
> The economic policies of President Bush have set the country on a dangerous course that will likely end in crisis, Princeton economics professor Paul Krugman told Reuters in an interview.
> http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=6888422
>
> ===
>
> China: The hunt for friends, and oil:
>
> The Chinese Dragon is flexing its muscles in its Central Asian back yard. It is conducting major trade and business deals, searching for oil and resources and building infrastructure to ensure a stable, friendly environment. Russia and the US are watching closely.
> http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/FK23Ad03.html
>
> ===
>
> China-ASEAN new trade agreements:
>
> A major step to Asian integration
> http://english.eastday.com/eastday/englishedition/business/userobject1ai672063.html
>
> http://snipurl.com/avmb
>
> ===
>
> Congress Funds Psychological Tests for Kids :
>
> One of the nation's leading medical groups, the Association of American Physicians & Surgeons (AAPS), decried a move by the U.S. Senate to join with the House in funding a federal program AAPS says will lead to mandatory psychological testing of every child in America - without the consent of parents.
> http://newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/11/22/215244.shtml
>
> ===
>
> Bush Wayne - A " Caped Crusader" in a comic book world.
> http://207.44.245.159/article7344.htm
>
> ===
> Liberty can not be preserved without general knowledge among people." (August 1765) John Adams
>
>
>
> _____________________________
> Unsubscribe: http://www.ymlp.com/u.php?feminine+oma00420@direcway.com
> Hosting by http://www.yourmailinglistprovider.com
>

Great observation Sally. I agree it seems hard to understand how Pluto through Gemini (in the England "godly reformation") could somehow create a stir up of religious fundamentalism in a nation, but when you look at how the sign of Sagittarius represents the 9th house (religion) you can see how it's opposite sign would be invoked (Gemini). I have observed time and time again, that outer planets in the 9th house (Sagittarius) create a stubborn religious mindset, un-open to new ideas. I wonder if Pluto (being the Scorpio planet) going through the sign of the religious house (Sagittarius) could operate on such an intense deep irrational level, that it can actually "turn back the clock" in America as these energies must manifest.

And so it will pass. It does not seem to affect us as individuals, but rather our country is at the hands of a small group of zealots who are the manifestation of this energy who have for the time being gained the upper hand. I am much more concerned about the corporate takeover in our country (Pluto in Capricorn! UGH!) because I think greed and money is the modus operandi behind the Bushie administration, and religion was only played as a card.

I think religous fundementalism will take a back seat to a major economic depression in the USA - we apear to heading that way right now. It's hard to intrude into the lives of others about unborn fetuses when you can't feed your kids and can't pay your bills. It will also be very hard for them to care one whit about gay marriage. These are luxuries of prosperous societies.

Let's hear it for the European Union to lead the world! 6 week vacations from work anyone??? A STRONG Green Party (as in Germany), responsibly concerned about the environment, animals and world relations, okay to gay civil unions, abortion is not a govt. concern, separation of church and state... they have my vote!

The USA dropped the ball, capitalism and apathy out of control.

Oops sorry, I meant to address Isabelle, just noticed who wrote article.

HAPPY THANKS GIVING TO EVERYBODY

I give thanks to divine forums!

wonderful article on cromwell. i've been thinking about it on and off since rading the post yesterday. and wv, wow, that's a full place of reality-based politics for turkey day.

i'm thankful i saw the wizard in time to get a brain and deal with all this stuff.

BTW, with all the talk about economic damnation, are we ripe for an astrological economic forecast?

****************PEACE***************

Well, I am back from a very intense working week and recovered enough to read this

....and I want to thank whomever it was who posted the information on the fact that the Mayflower was loaded with Separatists, not Puritans....my ancestors (as well as the Bushes; even my artists rep is descended from a Mayflower passenger...so are prbably hundreds of thousands of people in the US ) came on that ship, as well as later ones who came with the Puritans...but the split always seems to me to be expressed best with two incidents....the Salem witch trials (also my ancestors, the Putnams, who started the whole mess); and the hanging of my 13th great grandmother, Mary Barrett Dyer. In both cases there were extreme religious swings going on...the Salem incident repeated about every 30-40 years regularily, it just isn't as famous....so witch hunts, metaphorically speaking, happen....whether politically or religiously or as in our case now, BOTH. As form my other ancestor, Dyer, the Quaker Martyr, well...she was a woman, well educated, which made her an object of derision and suspicion, who had learned about a new way of being spiritual from George Fox himself....this was in the 1650's....and she and a number of Quakers were preaching this new thinking....and directly reproaching and challenging the CONTROL the Puritans had over the economy ....So Gov. Endicott hung her and many others, although she was the only woman who was hung, for defying the Puritan ban on returning from the exile in RI, on Jun 1 1660 on Boston Common (where a statue of her resides now). The other Quakers were banished to RI, many of my ancestors were Quaker for the next 120 years. But the Puritans were BUSINESS MEN....they used religion to control the other sects...in those early years, the Puritans used the stocks liberally, taxed all the other colonies and imposed fines on anyone stepping out of line....sound familiar? MEET THE NEW BOSS, HE'S THE SAME AS THE OLD BOSS....

Isabel, great work....

I should add....I am not baptised, I didn't have my daughter baptised (and I do not fear going to hell, that is just friggin propaganda), I would not ever belong to any church, I have believed from the time I was a child in Hawaii that I was a druid as well as a buddhist, I was given some protestant training so I am quite familiar with the teachings, I always thought I had lived at the time of Christ, and this religion is NO Christ-like one, ....lets see, anything else? Oh yes, I have an spirit guide named Good Feather...from a tribe in southwestern Arizona....and my philosophy is quite similar to the Quaker teachings....but I didn't know any of my Quaker (or Mayflower) heritage until year 2000. So what is it, DNA? Scorpio rising? In touch with all the past lives? A vivid imagination? I always knew I had lived in Scotland and England (where, of course, both sides of my family came from)....and I never felt like an American and still don't. So don't anyone get snobby on me about saying I came from those people!!!! I ain't your garden variety Mayflower descendent. And I'm no Bush, either.

Happy Thanksgiving Everyone! Love and Gratitude to All of Us.

Thanks for this brilliant thought, "The New Cromwells". It clarifies so much, even for those who had mentally made a comparison. Just brilliant Isabelle. Just saying it out loud changes the energy.

My relatives came from Nordic countries sometime in the 19th century. I have always been grateful to be an American girl who could climb trees, marry when I wanted to, wear a bikini, get an education, have children or not, tell my husband to take a hike if I wanted to, travel alone, choose any mode of transportation and own it if I chose. (Not necessarily in that order.) I am grateful. My spirit is grateful for the experience I have had here in this realm, though I would have to say, this is a hard school, filled with beauty and pain,

I wish you all strength, serenity, and grace. May you walk in beauty, find the pattern....and see it. May you stay one step ahead of events. That's a way to overcome.

Thankyou to all the brilliant astrologers who write here, comment here, and to commenters who bring so much wisdom and information on historical and current events. I would also like to offer my apologies to Claudia Dikinis, who wrote an article on Karl Rove, The predictions were very negative, and I thought she was being too harsh. She wasn't. Her astrology was correct, and I do most sincerely apologize.

Peace everyone. Namaste.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2004/11/25/new_silent_majority/index.html

Scrooge's nightmare
Despite Bush's election, the cranky old conservatives' days are numbered. The future belongs to middle-aged boomers and their kids, who embrace the tolerant values of the '60s.

Cowed by exit polls showing that "moral values" motivated one in five American voters on Election Day, chastened journalists have begun to spin a new narrative about our national political culture: that "ordinary Americans" can be found only in socially conservative red-state pews. "Ordinary people, the people in the red states" is how conservative media critic Bernard Goldberg puts it, and many in the press seem to be saying amen.

But once again the media have it wrong. Missing in this discussion is that most Americans -- even many Bush supporters -- would recoil and rebel if the evangelical right ever got its way and began to limit the personal freedoms most of us now take for granted.

All the claims about mandates and values notwithstanding, the very fact that one-fifth of voters cited moral values means that four-fifths didn't. In fact, we heard much the same talk about the rise of conservative social values in the Reagan '80s, yet scholars who have studied attitudes in that period have found little evidence to suggest any reversal of the social liberalism that began in the '60s, particularly on issues involving family, women, morality, sexuality and overall tolerance. We must be careful not to confuse election results with cultural trends.

As survey after survey of contemporary social attitudes demonstrates, social conservatives no more represent the mainstream or the future than Prohibitionists did in the 1920s. If anything, it's the baby-boom sensibility spawned in the 1960s that has become mainstream in America today. As conservative columnist George Will lamented a few years back, politics "seems peripheral to, and largely impotent against, cultural forces and institutions permeated with what conservatives consider the sixties sensibility."

How little the "moral values" voter represents the future is evident in surveys of today's youth, who may be the most inclusive, tolerant and socially liberal generation in our nation's history. From the media we hear all about the controversies of the so-called culture war, such as the occasional school superintendent who shuts down all school clubs to keep gay and straight high school students from forming "gay-straight" clubs. But what we don't hear is that these clubs have quietly formed in about 2,800 schools nationwide. In fact, research on young people confirms that they have little patience for intolerance, that they have no problem accepting homosexuality, that most even support the right of gay people to marry.

Indeed, today's youth reject many of the social rigidities, prejudices and orthodoxies of old. As many as half of all teens say they've dated across racial or ethnic lines, including more than a third of white teens, and most of these are "serious" relationships. On race, homosexuality, premarital sex, gender roles, the environment and issues involving personal choice and freedom, younger Americans consistently fall on the liberal and more tolerant side of the spectrum.

If younger voters were the only ones with these attitudes, social conservatives might be able to lay claim to a "moral values" mandate for a very long time. But younger voters represent the mainstream much more than the initial exit polling would indicate. The illusion of a predominant "moral values" voting bloc has much to do with the fact that the most traditional and socially conservative Americans, pre-baby boomers, are living much longer lives and voting in very large numbers -- skewing exit polls and thus our image of the mainstream. Once younger voters begin to replace them, the socially conservative vote will return to the margins of American life.

There's a good reason why young people feel the way they do, and that's because their baby boomer parents overwhelmingly agree with them. So forget any talk of a generation gap between boomers and their children. On a wide range of social and cultural issues, they are united in their attitudes of tolerance and inclusiveness. The only generation gap that remains is the same one that began in the '60s, between pre-boomers and the rest of us. What we have today is a pre-baby boom cohort that's steadfastly conservative, with the vast majority of everyone younger leaning the opposite way.

More...

http://www.daykeeperjournal.com/feature.shtml

snip...

There is light ahead. The years we are experiencing right now, 2004-2005, are allowing us to see the old ugliness. And thereby to begin to forge new and better ways.

This rebuilding is a process which, however, takes time. We must have patience with the process, hold the light, and continue to work for the good.

It is heartening to remember that all of this change is occurring with progressed Sun in Pisces. Pisces can allow change, surrender, spiritual connection, and compassion as can no other sign. It is the last of the signs, and thus completes a 360-year cycle of progression. Purification is its essential work.

These years of 2004-2005 open up a very new chapter in U.S. history. We are laying the groundwork for the revolutionary times ahead of us, with a subsequent new start (airy and civilized) in history.

Numerology supports this timetable. E.g., 2005 is the last year of a 9-year cycle for the U.S. It’s time to finish things up.

In 2006, we start a new 9-year cycle, and we begin to do things in a different way. That year, remember, is when the U.S. progressed Mars for the first time becomes stationary retrograde, further indicating a new approach for the nation.

We have much spirit help in this process. Of all the signs, Pisces is the closest to spirit guides.

Where'd this ancestor bashing come from? Thousands and thousands of us are direct descendants of Governor Bradford and other Mayflower passengers. Thousands and thousands of us are direct descendants of those who stood on these shores and welcomed (or not!) the European ships. Almost all of us are descendants of people who wanted to be free from some oppression or other. Let us honor our forbears for their courage, learn from their excesses and mis-directions, and proceed onward to try and create a better world for those who follow us. Ancestry bashing won't get us there.

From Daykeeper Journal:

THURSDAY NOVEMBER 25

Grounding of our energies is featured today. This is most appropriate for those of us who are fortunate enough to celebrate the abundance of Earth by feasting. Ultimately it is food which grounds us. No wonder that we reach so eagerly and so often for something to eat. We can enjoy cooking and eating today—and thank the Great Mother for her gifts to our bodies and souls. Stormy weather does look likely.

FRIDAY NOVEMBER 26

Moon enters Gemini very early this morning, and Full Moon at 5 Gemini occurs at 3:07 p.m. EST. This is the culmination of an emotional and regenerative Scorpio Moon Month. Here at Full Moon we move into a very different mode. Now we experience a wide open and expansive Sagittarius and Gemini. We look at the broad philosophical underpinnings of the world, and search for understanding of the transformation now occurring. The Gemini Full Moon adds a search for specific information and daily connections which provide the fuel for greater understanding. Sagittarius is the idealism behind religion and politics. Gemini creates the matrix which makes manifestation possible in real life. Sagittarius and Gemini together form a mental polarity. We add thought to Scorpio’s feeling.

Movement and travel are important now.

In fact, nervous energy courses through us with this Full Moon. Sun and Moon are both filled with brilliant, unpredictable Uranian vibrations, which keep us alert. Idealism is very high, and integrity is important. Deep passion and desire are also likely now, for Venus in Scorpio plays an important role. Strong emotions balance the strong mental approach of this Sag-Gemini time.

The U.S. power structure has been under siege all month. Now it takes full attention in Washington. Fear and cruelty are expressed, as that power is slowly, inexorably being re-aligned, and surely resisting.

Full Moons are illuminating, and we can arrive at new awarenesses. We will have the rest of the day to absorb this knowledge, as we connect with one another.

The Sabian Symbol for 5 Gemini is:

"A REVOLUTIONARY MAGAZINE ASKING FOR ACTION." The explosive tendency of repressed feelings and root emotions. Every movement overstressing one direction calls forth in time an equally extreme movement in the opposite direction. This is particularly true at the level of the dualistic mind symbolized in the zodiac by Gemini. What is rigidly bound by form and convention tends to explode into formlessness. It may do so violently if socially repressed—through revolution—or at the psychological level through psychosis; or it may withdraw inwardly into the mystical state in which one identifies with an unformulatable Reality. The one desire is TO REACH BEYOND ESTABLISHED FORMS."

North and South America, the Middle East, and the Far East are especially highlighted by this Full Moon. Mercury, now moving slowly and deliberately, and filled with Pluto’s thoughts of power, is important. With Pluto, it moves through the plains states of the U.S., through India, and Australia.

Three Ugly Weeks: Second Bush Term Goes From Bad to Worse
by Molly Ivins

AUSTIN, Texas -- Dan Green of New York City says of the election results, "You can't be depressed now, the worst is yet to come." Following that good advice, I intended to keep my indignation dry and save the outrage for when it is really needed, kind of like saving room for the pumpkin pie after Thanksgiving dinner. If we're going to get through the next four years, we have to pace ourselves, I concluded.

But here it is, not even three weeks into the new Bush regime, and already I'm jaw-dropped, you've-got-to-be-kidding mad. Here's the record so far:

Republicans somehow managed to squirrel an obscure little provision into the appropriations bill that gives congressmen or their "agents" the right to look at your IRS return and make what use of it they will. This perverse item was apparently the brainchild of Rep. Ernie Istook of Oklahoma, who is such a hopeless chucklehead it's often hard to take him seriously as a menace. He's chair of the transportation subcommittee of the appropriations committee, and in that position clearly needs to see your tax return. He also voted for funding for light rail in Salt Lake City (he's Mormon), but against light rail funding for Oklahoma City.

What is it with Oklahoma? Even Istook is likely to be out-dumbed by Oklahoma's new senator, Tom Coburn, who believes "lesbianism is so rampant in some of the schools in southeast Oklahoma that they'll only let one girl go the bathroom" at a time. No evidence could be found for this peculiar claim. He also described state legislators as "a bunch of crapheads." While I do not agree, I am sympathetic to the perspective.

Sen. Ted Stevens, who as usual has larded the appropriations bill with an outsize package of goodies for Alaska, assured the Senate that Istook's amendment would be deleted before the bill was sent to the president. He begged, he pleaded. "Do I have to get on my knees?" he asked.

Quick, someone check just how much more in federal spending the 250,000 citizens of Alaska are getting than the rest of us.

Also stashed away inside the appropriations bill was a provision imposing a domestic gag rule on abortion: no federal money to agencies that require doctors, hospitals or insurers to provide abortions, cover them OR give referrals to abortion providers. Sailed right through the House. Hey, why not put a new abortion restriction in the appropriations bill, along with the kitchen sink?

Republican House leaders rejected the 9-11 commission's bill on intelligence reform. Eighty percent of Americans want the intelligence reforms, and our safety is directly at stake. But hey, we're just chopped liver: The reforms would take power away from the Pentagon. And as we all know, we just can't have that.

The Senate voted 65 to 30 to set funds aside for a special category of "priorities," including a new presidential yacht.

It's really fascinating to watch the Republican slime machine at work on Travis County District Attorney Ronnie Earle. Earle is one of the longest-serving district attorneys in the entire country. His constituents have been re-electing him since 1976. He was one of the first prosecutors in Texas to create a victim assistance program and helped start the Austin Children's Advocacy Center to help abused kids.

He's pretty much a local hero around here, and no D.A. gets that way by being "soft on crime." Earle is death penalty advocate. He is also noted for going after corrupt Democratic politicians in this state, even though he's a Democrat himself. He was willing not only to take on the slam-dunk cases, but also some tough ones just to remind everybody that the law is to be obeyed.

Earle is such a careful craftsman of prosecution that Time magazine selected him as their main example for a major 2003 article to explain how DAs like Earle might bring some resolution to the death penalty debate. Earle has experienced both the good and bad of the death penalty -- consequently, he has a special review procedure for cases on which his office seeks capital punishment.
He is widely admired among his peers, and his innovations are often copied. This is the guy the Republicans are blithely dismissing as a "crackpot." Since Earle has been in office almost 30 years and has a fine national reputation, it's ludicrous to dismiss him as a "runaway district attorney." Does anyone at Fox News ever do any research?

As though things on the legislative side weren't bad enough, Bush and Cheney are moving to make the executive branch all-powerful. You can already see several of the unfortunate characteristics of the first term being intensified in the second. The emphasis on secrecy is already more pronounced, as is the selection of people for loyalty rather than competence.

But we have to save some room for when it gets worse, so I'd like wish absolutely everybody, including the Bush administration, a swell Thanksgiving.

© Copyright 2004 WorkingforChange.com

Thanks, Isabelle.

I'm reminded of two quotes--when Will Rogers addressed the DAR (reportedly one of the few times he wasn't much appreciated as a speaker) he said something along the lines of "I understand your ancestors came over on the Mayflower. My ancestors were on shore to greet them. This was before we had all these immigration laws--back then we would let anybody in."

The other quote is the great headline run by an Australian newspaper over a report of the perjury trap laid for Clinton-- "Thank God they got the Puritans and we got the convicts."

Molly is my hero, along with Helen Thomas. There are more of course.

This is a profound article.

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=51&ItemID=2919

Confronting Empire

To My AstroWorld Family: HAPPY THANKSGIVING.

This site is a blessing and something to be thankful for.

Happy Thanksgiving One and All. The best thing about counting "your blessings" on the holidays is, you can always find one, even if it's just one. So Happy and joyful Thaksgiving with blessings and happiness heaped upon your heads.

Happy Thanksgiving to all at Astroworld and may all of our loved ones in the armed forces be safe.

Great article. It is so important to realize that our freedoms are being taken away by the radical religious group, which will be to their detriment much more than they realize. It will be one of those times of being careful of what you wish for.

I have thought for some time that Bush gang is just showing by exageration, what the US is really like that we don't see.

The great year is now at 5 pices 11 moving backward toward Aquarius. (Which I calculate about 300 years from now.) Between now and them the age of the Christians that has dominated with the great year in Pices will no longer dominate and a religious based on Aquarian ideals will come to the frount. So even now we are witnessing a "hanging on by the figernails of the Christian religion.

I kinda wish I could hang around to see it. What nashing of teeth. But "I'll be back".

Got this in my e-mail:

"now these guys know how a democracy works.  did you ever think you'd get a lesson on how democracy works from the Ukraine?  instead of all these whiney blog postings, why don't democrats go on strike?  Why don't they stay home from their jobs until there's a recount of the vote?  We're such a pitiful country.  We so want our cake and to eat it too.  Here's an unthinkable concept -- Why don't all blue staters stop buying stuff for a week to demand a recount?  How about we stop buying gas (or at least car pool) until we get out of Iraq?  Where are 300,000 people massing at the steps of the White House demanding an end to Bush's policies?  Yeah, well we're too busy, aren't we?  We've got important things to do.  As someone once said -- we get the government we deserve.  sigh....

signed,

a fellow hypocrite

Ukrainians Stage Strikes as Yanukovych Offers Talks (Update7)

Nov. 25 (Bloomberg) -- Ukrainian supporters of presidential candidate Viktor Yushchenko staged a national strike to demand the annulment of the Nov. 21 election they say is fraudulent as Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovych, the winner, said he will meet opposition leaders.

More than 300,000 protesters massed for a fourth day at Independence Square in the capital Kiev, one of dozens of demonstrations held around the nation. Yushchenko declared himself president two days ago.
 
---------------------------------
" [T]he violence [in Mosul] had calmed since then, and children could be seen playing in some parks. At one playground, Amin Muhammad, 10, and his friends raced around with plastic guns. 'We divide ourselves into two teams,' he said, 'the mujahedeen versus the American forces.'' And in their battles, he said, "the mujahedeen always win."
-- Edward Wong and James Glanz"

Met a really special & nice man in Boulder last week who said he always cultivates gratitude...after all, is life an entitlement or a gift? Put me in the right mood.

As far as ancester bashing, well, everyone has good and bad thoughts, attitudes and behavior...

What I think Judy may have been venting against is the narrow, intolerant religious thinking that is so dangerous and destructive.

We can't let that happen. There IS power in numbers.

I found the article on us boomers and our kids joining together and overpowering or maybe swallowing up this narrowness very heartening. I loved Fred Sterling's prediction...doing it as a third party could be just what the phoenix ordered.

Happy giving thanks, everyone.

Sharon

And Judy's comments here, as those of many others, are right in line with Isabelle's great article.

That said, probably many of our ancestors were great and worthy of our love, gratitude and respect, and the rest are teaching and motivating us to do what we have to in order to repair ourselves, each other and the world. It's ok to be really angry. I think it's healthy to express it and let it empower us, as long as we stay centered. We all know that everyone's soul is beautiful. I think Casey said, among others, that it's the selfishness of the ego that causes all this trouble.

Sharon, amen.

Okay, I’m confused. I checked tonight’s sky and tomorrow’s and found that the full moon will occur tomorrow, Friday, at 3:07 pm EST — but unlike Maya’s comments above, the astronomy sites and the Swiss ephemeris show it to be in Taurus — 27 degrees at 3:07 pm EST

Nov 26, 2004
Tonight's moon is near the star Aldebaran in the constellation Taurus the Bull. This star is reddish in color, and it represents the Bull's fiery red eye. You can see the rest of the Bull's face in the V-shaped cluster of stars of which Aldebaran is a part. This V-shaped cluster is also known as the Hyades star cluster. Like the nearby Pleiades (which marks the Bull's Shoulder), the Hyades is a true cluster of stars in space. Its stars were born from a single cloud of gas and dust, and they still move together through the galaxy. Aldebaran is not a true cluster member. Instead, this reddish star is located about 65 light-years away, while the stars in the V, the Hyades stars, lie at about twice that distance. By the way, the moon is full tonight. The full moon of November carries the name Frosty Moon.

--------------------------

So, help! where is the full moon tomorrow?

4'55" Gemini at 3:07 PM EDT

Correction that should be EST

Just checking in briefly as my orbit passes through your oort clouds...then off again toward some unknown destination.
___________________

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Commentary/112504Hasty/112504hasty.html

Uncommon Sense
21st Century American Revolution

By Michael Hasty

November 25, 2004—If there were any doubts remaining that the United States of America is no longer a functioning democracy, those doubts disappeared in the presidential election of 2004. The uncomfortably open-ended question we are left with is: where do we go from here?

Those among us who have managed to weave our way through the minefields of media disinformation, to a commonsense understanding of reality—some people call us the "reality-based community"—find ourselves in a situation that is unprecedented in American history. That is, we are the first generation of Americans since the nation's founding who do not have the fundamental tools of democracy—a free press, and a fair vote—to effect policy change.

The dangers we face now cannot be overstated. At the risk of repeating myself, let me amplify on a point I made in a previous column:

It's a good omen that leading, nationally-known progressives like Ralph Nader, Dennis Kucinich and Mark Crispin Miller are raising alarms about the stolen election. But we have to be very cognizant of the fact that the media's adamant refusal to address the very real irregularities of the 2004 vote is a deliberate act of psychological warfare. It is the same tactic they've employed in all the other Bush scandals, from Florida 2000 to Harken Energy to Valerie Plame to WMD deception—a tactic that, in its most arrogant form, can be reduced to three simple words: "Get over it."
____________________

Sending love.

OG

Hmmm. There's supposed to be a

...Snip...

a point I made in a previous column:

...between these two lines...

It's a good omen that leading, nationally-known progressives

But it won't post. Maybe this one will.
_____________________

Now off. Take care all.

I'm both thrilled and terrified by this!

from: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/11/25/162021/17

"According to informed sources in Washington and Houston, the Bush campaign spent some $29 million to pay polling place operatives around the country to rig the election for Bush. The operatives were posing as Homeland Security and FBI agents but were actually technicians familiar with Diebold, Sequoia, ES&S, Triad, Unilect, and Danaher Controls voting machines. These technicians reportedly hacked the systems to skew the results in favor of Bush." ...more...

On October 20th Nancy posted this:
"After much consideration of the many astrological factors, I am predicting that we may well have a post-election power struggle that will culminate between November 20 and 25, with John Kerry the winner. "

People have been saying the only way to really prosecute the fraud is to have inside information. Maybe we will get it??

Happy Thanksgiving everyone! This article was fantastic, as they all are on AstroWorld! BTW - Next year and into early 2006 I have Uranus in my 9th house opposing both Mars and Pluto in my 3rd house and Venus in my 12th house, and Saturn is still in my first house. Should I be planning my funeral? I FINALLY got an IT job (with an hour and 1/2 commute each way) - but after a week and 1/2 I'm miserable and I want to quit and go back to school to become a teacher after over 12 years as a programmer. Could that be what's going on? Another strange thing. My sun is at 28 degrees Gemini and the Sabian symbol for 28 degrees Gemini is "Society granting bankruptcy to him, a man leaves the court with mixed feelings." I think I will have to declare bankruptcy next year. Sorry for the personal question - but I'm actually kinda scared, both for the country and myself.

SuzieLiberal: This story has been going around all over today. Another smoking gun, yes, but where's the technician? I'm not saying there ISN'T one, but...I'm not going to hold my breath until the story either gets proven correct...or blown out of the water.

Here's one I found today that I wanted to pass on. Ms. Bohne has really reached me with her focus.
______________________
Our business is upholding democracy and human rights—as in "restoration of"—or, more correctly, as in "demanding democracy and human rights." We must organise to fight for something not against, because to fight for something is to become empowered by the strength of our beliefs, but to fight against something is to be knocked down by the force of theirs. We must not allow ourselves to be drawn into a discourse the terms of which they determine and control.
______________________

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Commentary/111704Bohne/111704bohne.html

Reaffirming democracy by Luciana Bohne
_______________
and SuzieL: I too remember reading Nancy's comments re Nov 20 and 25, and also somewhere the words...the winner shall be the loser.

Now I've hovered long enough. My engines are in need of refueling.

Peace.

OG

I'm grasping at anything that gives me hope. I still can't even think about four more years of Bush.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/112604A.shtml

Thanksgiving: A Native American View

I celebrate the holiday of Thanksgiving.

    This may surprise those people who wonder what Native Americans think of this official U.S. celebration of the survival of early arrivals in a European invasion that culminated in the death of 10 to 30 million native people.

    Thanksgiving to me has never been about Pilgrims. When I was six, my mother, a woman of the Dineh nation, told my sister and me not to sing "Land of the Pilgrim's pride" in "America the Beautiful." Our people, she said, had been here much longer and taken much better care of the land. We were to sing "Land of the Indian's pride" instead.

    I was proud to sing the new lyrics in school, but I sang softly. It was enough for me to know the difference. At six, I felt I had learned something very important. As a child of a Native American family, you are part of a very select group of survivors, and I learned that my family possessed some "inside" knowledge of what really happened when those poor, tired masses came to our homes.

    When the Pilgrims came to Plymouth Rock, they were poor and hungry - half of them died within a few months from disease and hunger. When Squanto, a Wampanoag man, found them, they were in a pitiful state. He spoke English, having traveled to Europe, and took pity on them. Their English crops had failed. The native people fed them through the winter and taught them how to grow their food.

    These were not merely "friendly Indians." They had already experienced European slave traders raiding their villages for a hundred years or so, and they were wary - but it was their way to give freely to those who had nothing. Among many of our peoples, showing that you can give without holding back is the way to earn respect. Among the Dakota, my father's people, they say, when asked to give, "Are we not Dakota and alive?" It was believed that by giving there would be enough for all - the exact opposite of the system we live in now, which is based on selling, not giving.

    To the Pilgrims, and most English and European peoples, the Wampanoags were heathens, and of the Devil. They saw Squanto not as an equal but as an instrument of their God to help his chosen people, themselves.

    Since that initial sharing, Native American food has spread around the world. Nearly 70 percent of all crops grown today were originally cultivated by Native American peoples. I sometimes wonder what they ate in Europe before they met us. Spaghetti without tomatoes? Meat and potatoes without potatoes? And at the "first Thanksgiving" the Wampanoags provided most of the food - and signed a treaty granting Pilgrims the right to the land at Plymouth, the real reason for the first Thanksgiving.

    What did the Europeans give in return? Within 20 years European disease and treachery had decimated the Wampanoags. Most diseases then came from animals that Europeans had domesticated. Cowpox from cows led to smallpox, one of the great killers of our people, spread through gifts of blankets used by infected Europeans. Some estimate that diseases accounted for a death toll reaching 90 percent in some Native American communities. By 1623, Mather the elder, a Pilgrim leader, was giving thanks to his God for destroying the heathen savages to make way "for a better growth," meaning his people.

More...

Troops from California describe a prison-like, demoralized camp in New Mexico that's short on gear and setting them up for high casualties.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-guard25nov25.story

DOÑA ANA RANGE, N.M. — Members of a California Army National Guard battalion preparing for deployment to Iraq said this week that they were under strict lockdown and being treated like prisoners rather than soldiers by Army commanders at the remote desert camp where they are training. 

More troubling, a number of the soldiers said, is that the training they have received is so poor and equipment shortages so prevalent that they fear their casualty rate will be needlessly high when they arrive in Iraq early next year. "We are going to pay for this in blood," one soldier said.  

They said they believed their treatment and training reflected an institutional bias against National Guard troops by commanders in the active-duty Army, an allegation that Army commanders denied.  

The 680 soldiers of the 1st Battalion of the 184th Infantry Regiment were activated in August and are preparing for deployment at Doña Ana, a former World War II prisoner-of-war camp 20 miles west of its large parent base, Ft. Bliss, Texas.  

Members of the battalion, headquartered in Modesto, said in two dozen interviews that they were allowed no visitors or travel passes, had scant contact with their families and that morale was terrible.  

"I feel like an inmate with a weapon," said Cpl. Jajuane Smith, 31, a six-year Guard veteran from Fresno who works for an armored transport company when not on active duty.  

Several soldiers have fled Doña Ana by vaulting over rolls of barbed wire that surround the small camp, the soldiers interviewed said. Others, they said, are contemplating going AWOL, at least temporarily, to reunite with their families for Thanksgiving. 

Army commanders said the concerns were an inevitable result of the decision to shore up the strained military by turning "citizen soldiers" into fully integrated, front-line combat troops. About 40% of the troops in Iraq are either reservists or National Guard troops.  

Lt. Col. Michael Hubbard of Ft. Bliss said the military must confine the soldiers largely to Doña Ana to ensure that their training is complete before they are sent to Iraq. 

"A lot of these individuals are used to doing this two days a month and then going home," Hubbard said. "Now the job is 24/7. And they experience culture shock." 

But many of the soldiers interviewed said the problems they cited went much deeper than culture shock. 

And military analysts agree that tensions between active-duty Army soldiers and National Guard troops have been exacerbated as the war in Iraq has required dangerous and long-term deployments of both. 

The concerns of the Guard troops at Doña Ana represent the latest in a series of incidents involving allegations that a two-tier system has shortchanged reservist and National Guard units compared with their active-duty counterparts. 

More...

One gulp, and Bush was gone

Behind the scenes at the Clinton library, we saw America's future

snip...

John Kerry arrived to defiant cheering from the crowd. Then, when the presidents were announced, Bush tried to push his way past Clinton at the library door to be first in line, against the already accepted protocol for the event, as though the walk to the platform was a contest for alpha male. In his speech, Clinton sought to clarify the present by his broad analysis of globalisation - "an age of interdependence with new possibilities and new dangers" - and the offer of conciliation: "America has two great dominant strands of political thought; we're represented up here on this stage: conservatism, which at its very best draws lines that should not be crossed; and progressivism, which at its very best breaks down barriers that are no longer needed or should never have been erected in the first place."

In his effort to transcend the division of America into two nations, red and blue, Clinton was attempting to demonstrate his tradition - the absence of dogma, the belief that good ideas can come from anywhere, and that solutions cannot be imposed but must be worked out in democratic politics, involving the arts of building coalitions, compromises and experimentation, of which he was the leading practitioner and survivor.

Offstage, beforehand, Rove and Bush had had their library tours. According to two eyewitnesses, Rove had shown keen interest in everything he saw, and asked questions, including about costs, obviously thinking about a future George W Bush library and legacy. "You're not such a scary guy," joked his guide. "Yes, I am," Rove replied. Walking away, he muttered deliberately and loudly: "I change constitutions, I put churches in schools ..." Thus he identified himself as more than the ruthless campaign tactician; he was also the invisible hand of power, pervasive and expansive, designing to alter the fundamental American compact.

Bush appeared distracted, and glanced repeatedly at his watch. When he stopped to gaze at the river, where secret service agents were stationed in boats, the guide said: "Usually, you might see some bass fishermen out there." Bush replied: "A submarine could take this place out."

Was the president warning of an al-Qaida submarine, sneaking undetected up the Mississippi, through the locks and dams of the Arkansas river, surfacing under the bridge to the 21st century to dispatch the Clinton library? Is that where Osama bin Laden is hiding?

Or was this a wishful paranoid fantasy of ubiquitous terrorism destroying Clinton's legacy with one blow? Or a projection of menace and messianism, with only Bush grasping the true danger, standing between submerged threat and civilisation? Perhaps it was simply his way of saying he wouldn't build his library near water.

Clinton concluded his remarks with a challenge to Bush couched in terms of his own failure - "where we fell short ... the biggest disappointment in the world to me ... peace in the Middle East ... I did all I could." He then faced Bush: "But when we had seven years of progress toward peace, there was one whole year when, for the first time in the history of the state of Israel, not one person died of a terrorist attack, when the Palestinians began to believe they could have a shared future. And so, Mr President, again, I say: I hope you get to cross over into the promised land of Middle East peace. We have a good opportunity, and we are all praying for you."

At the private luncheon afterwards, in a heated tent pitched behind the library, Shimon Peres delivered a heartfelt toast to Clinton's perseverance in pursuing the Middle East peace process. Upon entering the tent, Bush, according to an eyewitness, told an aide: "One gulp and we're out of here." He had informed the Clintons he would stay through the lunch, but by the time Peres arose with wine glass in hand the president was gone.

·Sidney Blumenthal, a former senior adviser to President Clinton, is Washington bureau chief of salon.com

sidney_blumenthal @yahoo.com

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1358966,00.html

Excellent article Sally!

Just wanted to say that I'm back in Dallas now.

And Happy Thanksgiving everybody!

More interesting comments about Puritans, the Founders, & etc.

http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/

Finally someone says it. It's just business. They did it to the savings and loans, the State of Texas, etc, etc.

http://context.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2004/11/26/120.html

Worm Turning

One more....so ironic.

Ukraine Supreme Court Stops Certification of Election

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/112604F.shtml

Anyone ever hear of Fred Fassett ("Pychic Fred")? Interesting psychic "predictions" and advice for 2005. Here's the web link and the closing paragraph of that page.

http://www.psychicfred.com/predictions_2005.htm

"In closing, I want to encourage you all to direct your meditations and Light Work toward the world’s governments to reveal the truths that seem cloaked. If enough people do this, I feel we will find out what we need to know in order to return our shared experience to the higher path.

Blessings to you all, Fred Fassett"

Popping in again. Happy belated birthday Sally. Great articles and comments everyone.
Happy thanksgiving to the astroworld and lightworker family.

As a comment, I had always thought the Puritan movement began during the reign of Elizabeth 1st and proceeded to evolve mostly in a way that challenged the established "rules" and thus promoted pretty free thinking ideals for those days.
To blame all puritans for the politicization and manipulation by Cromwell would be the same as castigating all christians for the views of Bushie and his fanatic backers.

So far I haven't seen anybody post to this issue...but what about the Mercury retrograde that is fast advancing on us? I keep thinking "If we are in a state of chaos NOW...aren't things going to get REAL interesting with Merc. going retrograde pretty quick here?"

Like adding insult to injury. Or like putting salt on a wound! (Of course most folks won't know what's going on, so they will be merely frustrated!)

I think I'm going to do as my dad used to remark: I'm going to hide and watch.

Sally: Thanks for the Cromwell piece. It does help to be able to mentally refer to that time(especially the part about no Christmas being observed by mandate) and juxtapose it with now.

SuzieLib: guess journalist Madsen is under a great deal of pressure right now(according to an e-mail from him jist of which has been posted on DU) in regard to the "rigged" piece. I sincerely hope that the information in his article has been given to people who can actually DO something with it.

Here's one more bit from Castaneda that I've been pondering:

A warrior must focus his attention on the link between himself and his death. Without remorse or sadness or worrying, he must focus his attention on the fact that he does not have time and let his acts flow accordingly. He must let each of his acts be his last battle on earth. Only under those conditions will his acts have their rightful power. Otherwise they will be, for as long as he lives, the acts of a fool.

from Journey to Ixtlan

All for now.

OG

Couldn't agree more...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,5071979-103677,00.html

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/I/IRAQ_ATTACK?SITE=NYSTA&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

Four Killed in Baghdad's Green Zone

British security firm says four killed, 15 injured in attack in Green Zone in Baghdad.

    Baghdad - A mortar attack killed four employees of a British security firm and wounded 15 others in Baghdad's fortified Green Zone, the company and British officials said Friday.

    The dead were former Gurkha fighters, Britain's foreign office said.

    "The mortar landed in their camp," said a Foreign Office official on condition of anonymity

    Tim J. O'Brien, spokesman for the London-based Global Risk Strategies, said the employees were killed Thursday, but declined to say what killed them.

    "There was an incident yesterday. We lost four people and had 12 to 15 who were injured," he said. "We can't confirm what this incident actually was until we go through internal investigations."

    Multiple explosions were heard Thursday and black smoke was seen rising from the fortified Green Zone, which houses the U.S. and Iraqi leadership. The protected area lies on the western bank of the Tigris River.

    O'Brien declined to give out identities of the victims, but said that none of those killed were American.

    Global Risk Strategies is a London-based firm that provides security in countries including Iraq and Afghanistan.

Old Granny, Mercury retrograde, Hmmmmmm. I'v been so distracted, I'v hardly given that the thought it deserves.

Thanks so much for the Castaneda quote. Your posts are always wonderful and thoughtful.

Published on Thursday, November 25, 2004 by the Inter Press Service
From Plymouth Rock to Baghdad, Iraq
by Jim Lobe

WASHINGTON - As U.S. families partake of the turkey, yams, and other staples of the traditional Thanksgiving feast Thursday, they are unlikely to reflect on the enduring ideological -- as opposed to the gastronomic -- influences of that hardy band of Pilgrims that celebrated their first year of survival in the Massachusetts colony on the American continent back in 1621.

Yet, if they did, they might find startling convergences between the notions of those early settlers, who braved the rough voyage across the North Atlantic aboard their tiny vessel, 'The Mayflower' to Plymouth Rock, and the prevailing ideas and worldview of the administration headed by President George W Bush.

Indeed, the religious and ideological influences of the first Pilgrims -- mainly ''Separatists'', who called themselves the ''Saints'' -- have been pervasive in U.S. thought and, even in foreign policy, since their landing in 1620.

While many analysts look to the Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution as the key to understanding the national character, those documents were essentially products of the Enlightenment. What is often overlooked is that the original New England colonists, who also impressed their worldview on the future nation, were products of the Protestant Reformation, and radicals ones at that.

The Separatists were the most extreme of the Puritans. They believed that the Roman Catholic Pope embodied the Anti-Christ, but were also determined to either overthrow or separate from the Anglican Church precisely because it too closely resembled Catholicism. They also avoided or ''separated'' from less zealous Puritan congregations for fear of spiritual contamination.

The notions, for example, that the early colonists were a ''chosen people'' who enjoyed a special covenant with God to fulfill a providential ''mission'' are ideas were central to the Puritans' identity, forged by the religious persecution that they fled in England and honed by the harrowing ocean passage and the difficult hardships of the first winter in the ''New World''. God had clearly preserved them for a purpose.

As Calvinists, Puritans, who were drawn disproportionately from the rising commercial class, believed that God intervened directly in people's lives and that the accumulation of wealth, if obtained by just means, showed moral worthiness and God's favour.

As pointed out recently by British writer George Monbiot in an essay comparing Bush's worldview with that of the Puritans, ''Success in business became a sign of spiritual grace: providing proof to the entrepreneur ...that 'God has blessed his trade'''.

While Puritans shunned ostentation and were expected to aid, hopefully ''uplift'', the less fortunate -- call it ''compassionate conservatism" -- their poverty was always taken as evidence of moral failing.

As with wealth, so with power. While the Puritans depended on help from local Native Americans to survive the first year and teach them about local crops and wildlife, within just a few years, the first settlers were pushing them westward into the wilderness, through their superior firepower when necessary.

Indeed, by the time the founders had passed away, their children were selling Indians into slavery in Virginia, the Caribbean, Spain, and Morocco, according to Robert Venables, author of the two-volume 'American Indian History' who teaches at Cornell University.

As ''savages'', of course, the Indians were seen as lesser beings, an interpretation that was naturally bolstered by the belief that God rewarded the righteous. As with all of the Indian Wars that followed over the next nearly 300 years, the steady conquest of the continent and beyond by the Pilgrims' descendants was understood as the fulfillment of God's will, or ''Manifest Destiny''.

It is no great leap to believe that Washington's unequalled power in the world today is nothing less than a reflection of its moral goodness.

Tightly bound up with his notion and central to the Puritan worldview was the idea that they had a mission to redeem the world. After all, the Puritans were, above all, a religious community and one that believed fervently that they had a purpose to fulfill, if only to act as a beacon for other religious groups and nations to follow toward salvation.

The most famous and earliest statement of this faith came in 1630 -- just nine years after the first Thanksgiving feast -- when John Winthrop, who would soon become the colony's governor, called on the colonists ''to Consider that wee shall be as a Citty upon a Hill, the eies of all people are uppon us''.

In their eyes, if not those of the rest of the world, the Massachusetts Bay colony was a holy land, a ''new Israel'', and their arrival in that land was as miraculous and the Hebrew Exodus from Egypt.

This mission of redemption is one that is echoed by U.S. religious and political leaders down through centuries, according to an excellent new book, 'The Folly of Empire: What George W. Bush Could Learn from Theodore Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson', by political commentator John Judis.

''The mission is, above all, religious or moral in nature and defined as a struggle between good and evil and for redemption and salvation'', writes Judis. ''In 1919, arguing for the ratification of the treaty establishing the League of Nations, President Woodrow Wilson declared, 'For nothing less depends upon this decision, nothing less than the liberation and salvation of the world'''. George W. Bush called on the United States in his 2002 State of the Union address to defeat an ''axis of evil''.

He declared in November 2003 that 'the advance of freedom is the calling of our time.

‘'It is the calling of our country.... We believe that liberty is the design of nature. We believe that liberty is the direction of history''.

© Copyright 2004 IPS - Inter Press Service

Wonderful website! I just read a NYT OP-ED piece by Veronica Khokhlova regarding the Ukraine's election dispute. "Young people today are so different from what we used to be, or even from what your generation is. They don't have our fear - they don't know it. But they know their rights and they know how to defend them. They aren't scared to." She goes on the describe a 20yr old friend Tanya (Tanya was 6 when Soviet Union collased) who will be protesting election results and doing whatever it takes to insure that the election wrongs are righted. It makes me wonder for our children. They see us who feel that our election was 'stolen' again, complaining and greiving but taking no real action. Will they too grow up feeling powerless in the face of misused power. What are we teaching them? Ordinary people, mostly young, in the Ukrainehave decided to put aside fear and face down a corrupt power structure. What will it take for us to take a stand?

This was posted on Salon by Mark Crispin Miller.

Klemperer's diary does precisely what you describe. It's well worth reading. (Random House)

The prospect before us looks quite different once you let yourself perceive the likelihood that Bush lost this election, and lost it big. The mainstream press——and all too many Democrats and leftists——seem downright eager to dispel all conversation of the subject. Even Al Franken won't believe it. (We had a spirited argument about this on his show a couple weeks ago.) It's the mindset of denial, which works by over-focusing on this or that apparently weak execrise in numbers-crunching: "Well, THAT theory has been shot down by __________. Ergo, the election wasn't stolen!" The illogic is dazzling, especially as it works right in the face of massive evidence, statistical and anecdotal, of nationwide fraud.

The political effect of such bedazzlement is, of course, paralysis. And so a lot of people who regard themselves as "on our side" keep yammering about the need for some as-yet-undiscovered "smoking gun." As if there's not a ton of evidence already——certainly enough to make for reasonable doubt, and to begin a serious inquiry. And those who clamor for a "smoking gun" don't seem to realize that that seeming clincher too would be shot down by Rove and all his allies in the media, and his accomplices in academia.

The fact is that the case is there already to be made; and when you make it, with the necessary specificity and civic passion, others who feel likewise, but who have thus far been daunted by the quietist establishment, take heart and come around, admitting that the whole thing, at best, stinks to high heaven.

Bush/Cheney stole it once before. Their backers own and run the companies that manufacture the touch-screen machines AND the central tabulators. They've been opposed, all along, to enabling paper trails. (Gee, why?) For the last few weeks before E-Day, they were thwarting countless would-be Democratic voters, but there were no like complaints from Busheviks. (Remember those 4 million US voters who were having such a hard time casting votes abroad——frustrated by the PENTAGON, which somehow now held that electoral responsibility?)

Then, on E-Day, the countless cybernetic and administrative glitches all appeared to benefit the Busheviks. This is a statistical improbability, to put it mildly. Likewise, somehow all the exit polls were wrong——except for those in non-swing states, which were, as usual, dead accurate. (This too was statisticially anomalous. The odds of just the exit polls in Pennsylvania, Florida and Ohio being as wrong as they were: 250,000,000 to one.) And then there are those many counties where there somehow were a lot more votes for president than there were folks registered to vote (a snafu that's no less mysterious for all the Busheviks' subsequent "adjustment" of the numbers).

What else? There's plenty. Bush went into the election with a very daunting disapproval rating——53%——and yet somehow came out of it with 8 million more votes than he got four years ago. How? Where did they come from? Right-wing Christian evangelicals, we figure. OK, but there were only 4 million of such voters left for them to mobilize (there being 19 million such folks nationwide, 15 million of whom voted for Bush/Cheney last time). But then we find that the number of voting evangelicals DID NOT GO UP THIS TIME. This must seem suspicious, if your brain has not been injured by long exposure to what passes for "the news" these days.

And, finally, there are thousands upon thousands of firsthand accounts and affidavits, that tell of multitudes of would-be voters never getting sent their absentee ballots, or of being directed to non-polling places on Election Day, or of coming up against police roadblocks, or of being denied provisional ballots, or of standing in long lines to vote on just one faltering machine, or of being hassled for i.d.s or other documents that were not legally required.

We're talking only about Democrats. From coast to coast, in countless college towns and inner cities and whatever other Democratic precincts sat exposed to the chicanery of Bushevik state governments, Democrats alone were kept from voting, or saw their votes for Kerry transformed electronically into Bush votes. From coast to coast, the rate of ballot "spoilage," as Greg Palast notes, was astronomical among the Democrats, and minimal among Republicans. And as Bev Harris and her crew found out in Florida, the Busheviks were stealthily destroying Democratic ballots——a fact that she now has on video.

To say that all of this is unsuspicious is like saying that the war is going really well, that the economy is "coming back," that global warming is a myth, that Darwin's "theory" is no longer credited by scientists, that abstinence-only sex education works, that condoms don't curtail the spread of HIV, or that the peoples of the world just love the USA. To say that there is insufficient evidence of voter fraud, in short, is just irrational; and all those Democrats who keep insisting on it might as well be getting paychecks from Karl Rove. Let's stop speculating on the height and/or circumference of specific trees, and notice that the forest is on fire. We won't get anywhere until the people feel themselves encouraged to shout out the truth, at such a volume that the media can no longer tune us out.
..............................................
Wayne Madsen
http://www.opednews.com/madsen_112604_saudi_vote_theft.htm

Pat C. your point on the 9 year cycle makes a lot of sense. i know little of numerology (any reference on where this cycle is described) but '97 was the flash point for greed and republican insanity. i hope it's played out. all indicators show that it cannot go on. their system simply doesn't work. the article on massive troop shortages, etc. is an example of something that will 'manifest' clearly and soon. there is a real chance that we will be forced out of iraq. millions, that's right millions of iraqis own automatic weapons. if a few hundred thousand get up on the wrong side of the bed and decide to so domething, we're in serious trouble. every city could turn into fallujah. just imagine 114,000 troops trying to contrnol the state of Ohio or Florida or Pennsylvania. rediculous.

***as to ancestor wars: i'm adopted, i reject all responsibility for anything that might have happened (haha) because the whereabouts of my genes remains unknown. at the same time, if we're spiritual beings, we're all adopting our gene pool and bodies so who is to say.

***Time to Watch Clark***
we don't need someone to tell us what's right, we need someone to lead the movement. i believe that Wes Clark was/is/will be that person but i lack astrological acumen.

given the current system will implode soon, who is on the horizon. my criteria are: smart; humane; shows willingness to go against the grain; shows willingness to change and adapt.

i think clark fills each of these criteria.

i did some primitive astrology and came up with these events. if i'm wrong, please correct me and then i'll blame my ancestors.

Pluto conjunct N. Mars (happening for a while).
T. Mars conjuncting N. Jupiter mid December.

Mars is the mechanism here. i have little idea what this means although pluto should have cleared out a bunch of 'old' mars stuff and the new mars energy will activate jupiter.

could it be that wes clark will be the one to tell the TRUTH about or rotten election and our greed-based, UNgodly policies.

who knows? the shadow knows!

Pat C...thanks for the Sabian symbol of 5 Gemini...just so happens that is my Uranus position natally...and do I EVER tend to explode into formlessness!!!!

Shylurker...yes....our ancestors were brave people, I believe....especially the women who bore on average 6-10 children and often died in childbirth in order to populate this country - and also chose to find a new life rather than adjust to the old....and all of us are here now (which includes everyone over the following 3 centuries, not just the early ones) because of them. Good, bad, indifferent, evil or malign or of great character, they all contributed to what the stars seem to have impelled for this country to exist.

My astrology teacher, Stuart Walker, sent me an email out of the blue asking me to look at what is coming according to the Silbey chart for the US....(I was flattered), and I sat down with the chart he sent and Rob Hand's transit book....and lordy,lordy, we do get what we get. I think the national psyche is acting out EXACTLY what the chart indicates...so there may be no accidents in truth....and we who hold a higher vision of what affairs SHOULD be, are in for a big surprise also....in fact, we would be best served by looking at an even higher level and saying...this is part of the process which we are watching take place....we don't give up our ideals and compromise, but work towards building a foundation of what could BE, but we cannot ignore what is happening or repress it. And looking at Uranus' transit over the US natal Moon at 10 Aquarius as well as Neptune's transit more recently, it is apparent that Clinton also was a projection of the national psyche at a time when Pluto was still in the 12th....warm and fuzzy and feel good emotions....and inclusive of everyone. No wonder we like him....

What is apparent is T. Pluto's opposition to N Mars(21 Gemini) currently, then later Venus (3 Cancer, Jupiter 5 Cancer, the Sun 13 Cancer and Mercury 24 Cancer at the same time that T.Pluto conjuncts Natal Pluto 24 Capricorn will bring a national reckoning on our collective psyches. In fact, it appears to me that PNAC's plan works completely with these coming oppositions to Pluto and may be inevitable to the process of what I see as the Revolution of the 2020's....

Please do not assume that I am ENDORSING this view or AGREEING with PNAC plans...it is just what I see. Even the weird fact that Kerry, and Gore, probably actually won those elections seems to go along with the Plutonian terror and underhanded, underground Mafia terror techniques (sorry, if any of your ancestors were Mafia...that works with the 1930's discovery of Pluto also) and the unacknowledged elements of the American psyche which are COMING INTO VIEW finally....and need for transformation of those ugly elements exhibiting themselves upon the national stage....as so posted in many of the items above. Until they are made visible, they will not be transformed. This is ugly and unsettling...but as I was taught in psyhic healing class, make yourself a "body of glass" so that all of those vibes just blow right thru and don't stick or stop.....

Barbara...great quotes on Will Rogers....My first Wood grandmother Margaret Carter Wood in this country (she must have been the 13th one also) was massacred by the Pequot Indians during one of the uprisings on Long Island in 1643. Another Wood (William, Uncle of her husband John Wood the Mariner) wrote a classic book in support of the Indian tribes and revealing how badly they had been treated by the Puritans and settlers....but the Australians, no matter how funny that great line was about Clinton, were wrong...we got the convicts also..early debtors and other convicts were sent as indentured servants to this country....my dad always said we were descended from convicts.

Sharon...exactly right....there is a lack of tolerance for divergent views arising strongly now....but I remember the 1950's when you couldn't say ANYTHING....and then came the 1960's....so there is always hope.

Mike, I have always liked Wes Clark. I voted for him. If he had been nominated I would have been a happy camper. I also saw him on the Bill Maher (sp?), and I'm sure her knows. He's an honorable man with driven and I think he is here for the long haul.

If things keep moving in the direction their moving, the whole country will be red states by 2008.

Judi, you're most welcome, and thank you for you astrological work.

Judi, you're most welcome, and thank you for you astrological work.

Oh and by the way....

http://curezone.com/forums/troll.asp

Pat C, if that is how you want to shrug off the truth, then go right ahead. But it will take more than name calling to prevent the truth from getting spread.

Judi, sorry for the double post.

What is an Internet Troll/ Forum troll?

* An "Internet troll" or "Forum Troll" is a person who posts outrageous message to bait people to answer. Forum Troll delights in sowing discord on the forums. A troll is someone who inspires flaming rhetoric, someone who is purposely provoking and pulling people into flaming discussion. Flaming discussions usually end with name calling and a flame war.

" A classic CureZone troll is trying to make us believe that he is a skeptic. He is divisive and argumentative with need-to-be-right attitude, "searching for the truth", flaming discussion, and sometimes insulting people or provoking people to insult him. Troll is usually an expert in reusing the same words of its opponents and in turning it against them."

Ha, trying to make us believe that he is a skeptic? No questions about it, I am a skeptic, and have been since the beginning. I knew quite early that a lot of lies were written and believed on this board and I set out an agenda to counter these with actual facts... As for insulting people, nope can't say I did that, although many others on this board do, so I guess that makes them trolls? Provoking people isn't an issue as long as anyone on this board is sincerely interested in debate rather than one sided arguments. As for reusing the same words of my "opponents" as you want yourself to be called, I don't think I ever did that. Well, other than this particular circumstance.

" While he tries to present himself as a skeptic looking for truth ... his messages usually sound as if it is the responsibility of other forum members to provide evidence that what forum is all about is legitimate science."

He (and in 90% of cases it is he) tries to start arguments and upset people.

Sometimes, he is skeptical, trying to scare people, trying to plant fear in their hearts. Many curezone trolls are people trying to promote Quackwatch / ratbags agenda.

" Sometimes, Internet troll is trying to spin conflicting information, is questioning in an insincere manner, flaming discussion, insulting people, turning people against each other, harassing forum members, ignoring warnings from forum moderators."

Definitely sounds like the lies and misleading information that many spread on this board and continue to spread. My only reason for being here is to counter this misinformation with truth...

" Trolling is a form of harassment that can take over a discussion. Well meaning defenders can create chaos by responding to trolls. The best response is to ignore it, or to report a message to a forum moderator. CureZone moderators usually delete troll messages or block trolls. Negative emotions stirred up by trolls leak over into other discussions. Normally affable people can become bitter after reading an angry interchange between a troll and his victims, and this can poison previously friendly interactions between long-time users."

Wow if only they patrolled THEIR OWN messages as diligently as those with differences of opinion to their own, particularly towards those which they know deep down in their heart of hearts are right.

" Finally, trolls create a paranoid environment, such that a casual criticism by a new arrival can elicit a ferocious and inappropriate backlash."

" When trolls are ignored they step up their attacks, desperately seeking the attention they crave. Their messages become more and more foul, and they post ever more of them. Alternatively, they may protest that their right to free speech is being curtailed. Perhaps the most difficult challenge for a webmaster is deciding whether to take steps against a troll that a few people find entertaining. Some trolls do have a creative spark and have chosen to squander it on being disruptive. There is a certain perverse pleasure in watching some of them. Ultimately, though, the webmaster has to decide if the troll actually cares about putting on a good show for the regular participants, or is simply playing to an audience of one -- himself."

More and more foul? Sorry, I never write foul messages. As for posting more of them, I actually held back for a few weeks observing the negative reaction many of those on this board have towards people of different beliefs.

" The only way to deal with trolls is to limit your reaction and not to respond to rolling messages. It is well known that most people don't read messages that nobody responds to, while 99% of forum visitors first read the longest and the largest threads with the most answers."

Very clever, that only works if the person indeed really is a troll. Because I have already proven that I am not, I guess this deems this argument somewhat moot.

" * Troll Message is an outrageous message posted to a message board, newsgroup or mailing list to bait people to answer."

Hahahhaa, oh I get it very funny...

Pat C...Sidney Blumenthal article....the "nowness" of it....really powerful. This is what Robert Hand says about Pluto transiting the ascendant and then the first house: Need for psychotherapy;need to recognize and come face to face with aspects of personality that have been ignored in the past because they were thought to be 'evil' or 'weak' or otherwise unacceptable...but they can only be suppressed for a time, and not eliminated...under this transit the energies will surface.
Characteristically, Plutonian people are those who seek to change, transform and take control of EVERYTHING AROUND THEM.

It seems to me that this is changing the national characteristic of how America is looked at....what we project. And Rove is it....

Not to mention the fact that with Sun, Mercury and the north node in the 8th house of corporations, this country dodged an early bullet when elements of the enlightened founders won an early battle keeping the power of the wealthy and corporate entities from running the show....and now those elements have overshadowed our original national projections by which we know ourselves....and the underlying elements are now in ascendency. One can only ask if this is by fraud or by plan or by divine right (which is what Bush believes)...but it apparently IS. Whether we agree with it or like it...in fact, I got really po'd at a very good astrologer friend who said...but Judi, this is the way it is supposed to be, how it is supposed to happen. She wasn't endorsing it....she just has nothing ON IT....it has taken me months to figure this out on my own and stop being angry. It just doesn't mean that we stop creating that which MUST REPLACE THIS BUNCH OF BOZOS.

What I can't find is a way to conteract any of it, or any good news, unless it is that we must continue to rebuild out of the spotlight....unless we look at the progressed chart, and I don't have one. Anyone else want to look at this?

Karl Rove is the key to this....it is his vision, and Pluto/Mercury in 24 Capricorn IS KARL ROVE. I would say that he is the reincarnation of the original elements which wanted the Puritan/business/aristocracy government...and he is doing his damndest to get it. This is a big rock to push uphill...so doesn't it make sense to ask WHY he has been able to do it? And if it will succeed?

I hope those Rovian asides and Bush asides get published far and wide.....they are CHILLING.

Remember this word: enantiadromia (becoming that which we profess to hate) (Claudia Dikinis supplied me with this word, thanks Claudia)

I had noticed that it seems that everyone became, eventually, that which they hated...proving that the power in our brains to fulfill that which we have a BIG imprint on really works. It is just that when hate is involved, it is also unenlightened. So becareful of what we hate, because we will end up getting it.

Pat C....relating to this is the weird thing about cycles. The Pequot tribe which scalped my great grandmother in 1643 ended up being enslaved itself and decimated by another local tribe...NOT by the whites, but by another tribe. They were held in slavery for many years in CT, but the name of the tribe became or was retained as Pequot for some reason. By the 1870's there were only about 80-90 Pequot tribe members left; it was at that point that tribes across the nation were being given reservation land (or forced upon reservations), and so they applied to CT and got this land which is now outside of Stonington, Mystic area of CT (my mother's family were original settlers there, which is how I know this story). So this dirt poor impoverished band had land.....and now this tribe is the RICHEST in the entire nation....it sells medicines, it has gambling, and it has become a mecca for power politics and big money, and a big thorne in the side of CT. Revenge is sweet...

Anybody else notice the contrast between wv's post of the Guardian article about the U.S. soldier in a "Marboro Man" pose, cigarette dangling, after 12 hrs of doing battle in Fallujah:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,5071979-103677,00.html

and OG's Carlos Castenada's quote about the warrior:

"He must let each of his acts be his last battle on earth?"

If you haven't read the Guardian article, it's very good. It also has a lot to say about Kerry's failure to condemn the war strongly enough.

OK...continuing on....with the US chart. What about the Neptune at 22 Virgo (at the highest point of the chart, saying this is our must public need) sextiling Mercury at 24 Cancer, and squares the US Mars at 23 Gemini....and of course, Neptune also trines the Natal Pluto at 27 Cap. Rob Hand says about Neptune in the 10th:.....favors certain types of works, i.e., social-service work with poor or disadvantaged people ("Give us your tired, your poor.....:) or with those who have emotional, drug or alcohol problems...work in a spirit of helping others.

So to me we are now NOT (by this administrations course) paying attention to America's purpuse.

Read the Moscow Times article Pat C. posted the url to....loved it, says it plainly....

Woah, had to take a break for a few days to cool off. I believe someone asked me (I think it was Nancy) in an earlier article post forum what happened when my Uranus conjuct my mars (which is still on going). For one, I got very angry very easily the first two hits. This third one seems no different. Because my Mars is in the third, communication with others seemed to be edgy and angry. I was warned to be careful driving and I believe I backed into a parked car during this transit and damaged the wheel rim. Anger seems to have one of the chief outcomes. Currently as I approach my last hit, I notice I have been cussing alot especially at the computer (3rd house) whenever it crashes unexpectedly (Uranus). I need to be very careful driving I know because I know work up in the mountains and have to take a very dangerous route to work through winding roads filled with crazy people who drive 50mph. Did I mention that driving makes me angry especially tailgaters. Oh I also became very impatient during the last couple of hits and I notice my impatience has been increasing in the last few days. This partially has to do with the fact mars is also approaching my uranus and so Im getting a mutually receptive double hit. Anyhow be careful with yours. Check the house placements, they were very accurate with my experience. Hope that helps. Take it easy.

OK...continuing on....with the US chart. What about the Neptune at 22 Virgo (at the highest point of the chart, saying this is our must public need) sextiling Mercury at 24 Cancer, and squares the US Mars at 23 Gemini....and of course, Neptune also trines the Natal Pluto at 27 Cap. Rob Hand says about Neptune in the 10th:.....favors certain types of works, i.e., social-service work with poor or disadvantaged people ("Give us your tired, your poor.....:) or with those who have emotional, drug or alcohol problems...work in a spirit of helping others.

So to me we are now NOT (by this administrations course) paying attention to America's purpose. And that is going to be very painful to the America we identify with.

Read the Moscow Times article Pat C. posted the url to....loved it, says it plainly....http://context.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2004/11/26/120.html

I keep forgetting to tell Isabel that she wrote a great article...so Isabel, you wrote a great article....

Scalia rejects separation of church and state....

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/printer_112704X.shtml

Where does religion show up in the US Sibley chart? How do you define it? Why did the original doctrine specifically prohibit the mixing of church and state, and why? Was it all the experience those people living in those years had, knowing the history of the previous 250 years (talk about a Pluto transit) made it probable that religion would be used as a battering ram instead of as something people could freely practice?

Red states, blue states: It's about religion | The-Tidings.com http://www.the-tidings.com/2004/1112/signs.htm

so now Catholics are being pitted against Protestant and Mormon faiths....the schisms of Christianity are pretty interesting themselves.

naomi klein is right!

i've never bought into the notion that we couldn't turn this around with minimal 'punishment' from the fates. i'm no longer of that opinion. i think that dan rather's comments are pathetic. what a clown. he got into a well-publisized tiff with bush 1 on tv turning around the 'wimp' image and giving that tyrant a boost. rather did a sad job on the story about bush 2 and sucked the air out of the campaign for a week and that issue for the rest of the campaign.

bye dan, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

or as donald trump would say "DAN, YOU'RE FIRED"

(believe it or not, trump is a democrat and supported kerry. rock on donald)

http://tinyurl.com/3sb39

Pakistan Authorities Ban Issue of Newsweek
Fri Nov 26,11:58 AM ET World - AP Asia
By MUNIR AHMAD, Associated Press Writer

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan - Pakistani authorities have banned an issue of Newsweek magazine for publishing material they said was offensive to Islam, local media reported Friday.

A government official in Islamabad had ordered the "forfeiture of all copies of the weekly Newsweek of Nov. 22," the state-run agency Associated Press of Pakistan reported, quoting Tariq Mahmood Bajwa, a government official in the capital, Islamabad.

The edition published "objectionable remarks which (were) tantamount to desecration of the Quran," Islam's holy book, the agency said.

The report said authorities were considering legal action against the magazine but gave no details.

The action came after almost all copies of the Nov. 22 issue had been sold at book stalls, said a security official, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

Newsweek spokeswoman Jan Angilella declined to comment.

The issue carried a story about the slaying in the Netherlands of filmmaker Theo van Gogh and religious and ethnic divisions in Europe under the headline "Clash of Civilizations."

An alleged Islamic extremist of Moroccan descent has been arrested in the slaying.

The News, Pakistan's largest circulation English language newspaper, said Friday the banned Newsweek edition included an image taken from Van Gogh's film about Islam's treatment of women that showed verses from the Quran written on the body of a semi-naked woman. Islam requires modesty from women, who cover their bodies to varying degrees in public depending on the strictness of their society's interpretation of Quran. At least 97 percent of Pakistan's 150 million people are Muslims.

Under Pakistan's blasphemy law, anyone convicted of insulting Islam can be sentenced to death.

The News said the article was "blasphemous and highly provocative."

Pakistani authorities banned Newsweek once before, in July 2003 for an article they said was insulting to the Quran.

I just saw Bush saying that the US is on the case of the fraudulent election in Kiev. It was more than I could stand.

Senator Robert Byrd | A Thanksgiving Prayer in a Time of War
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/112704U.shtml

Besides the Puritan and Separatist colonies in Massachusetts, there was a third in the area that was established by the Dutch at New Amsterdam and they were there for trade, money and made no bones about it. At the time the Dutch were the go-to folks for money and commerce throughout the world. They did well in the New World. They were universally disliked by the colonists to the east. Many of the Dutch men were names either Kees (pronounced case) or Ijon (pronounced John).

The Puritans created a name of disdain for them using those common names and called them Ijonkees.....Yankees....

It should be noted that much of our commercial world has it roots in the original Dutch folk who brought both their banks and daring to our country. And it is also worth noting that the longest relationship we have with another nation is with The Netherlands. The first US national debt was owed to the Dutch and we have had a diplomatic representative in Holland for more than 200 years, even during WWI and II.

Thank you for that buyblue. I love history, and this article, and so many of the comments are very satisfying.

Here is some current events.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/27/opinion/27sat3.html?oref=login&pagewanted=print&position=

November 27, 2004

Senator Frist Tightens the Screws

?lexing their new muscles, Congressional Republicans seem intent on reigning as a dissent-smothering monolith. First, House G.O.P. members slavishly obeyed the maneuver by Tom DeLay, the majority leader, to render his control of the caucus ethics-proof by making it possible for a party leader to keep his post even if he is under indictment. His counterpart in the Senate, Bill Frist, was more discreet but no less ham-handed. He has engineered a rules change designed to cow the few Republican moderates who may still be willing to nip back at demands for party fealty.

The rule undercuts members' independence by giving Dr. Frist the power to fill the first two vacancies on all committees. This hobbles seniority, which has been the traditional path to power. The leader now has a cudgel for shaping the "world's greatest deliberative body" into a chorus line. Senator Olympia Snowe of Maine, chronic Republican maverick, got to the heart of the matter in skewering her leader's accomplishment: "There is only one reason for that change, and it is to punish people."

Toadying, of course, would avoid punishment. (Senator Arlen Specter's flirtation with independence already seems shaken by anti-abortion zealots.) Yet in a perverse way, this hubris by the Senate's more potent conservative bloc compounds the value of any dissent. The rule may even brace moderates to stand faster against extreme G.O.P. initiatives.

But nastiness is in the air as the new Congress limbers up. Democrats vow to never forget Dr. Frist's foray into South Dakota to help unhorse his counterpart, Tom Daschle, the minority leader, whose farewell speech was boycotted by a victorious, decidedly unsentimental majority. Dr. Frist, who many expect to run for president next time, seems beyond the range of minority Democrats, but not G.O.P. moderates seething at the rules change.

As an American living in Europe for the last three years, the whole situation back home seems quite surreal. I am unfortunately an astrological novice (although very interested) and I do believe the U.S. economy is headed for a major economic crisis as foreign governments (China, Japan, etc.) and organizations such as OPEC lose their appetite for supporting our debt which is now literally out of control. If we were not the U.S. with the (until recently) perceived aura of financial invincibility, these other countries would have bailed out of dollars a long time age.

Also, it is sad but revealing for me to watch Ukraine give us a lesson in true participatory democracy as the people say "no way" to fraud and vote manipulation by the authorities. I am afraid the whole situation of support for Bush will turn around only when Americans can no longer afford gas for their Ford Explorers or beef for their summer barbecues, which might well be the case by next July.

Helen Thomas: Condi is a Monster....

http://www.rense.com/general59/liar.htm

Election company has long criminal history....

http://www.madcowprod.com/11242004.html

I found this article on the Counterpunch website this morning. Interesting POV, not that I agree with it totally, but still, this is worth reading, I believe. And, no, I don't consider myself conservative, but, I see where this writer is coming from, that, even he, as a conservative (which I am not) cannot believe the lunacy that he sees passing for government in the Bush administration.

November 26, 2004

An Era of End-Timers and Neo-Cons
Whatever Happened to Conservatives?
By PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS

I remember when friends would excitedly telephone to report that Rush Limbaugh or G. Gordon Liddy had just read one of my syndicated columns over the air. That was before I became a critic of the US invasion of Iraq, the Bush administration, and the neoconservative ideologues who have seized control of the US government.

America has blundered into a needless and dangerous war, and fully half of the country's population is enthusiastic. Many Christians think that war in the Middle East signals "end times" and that they are about to be wafted up to heaven. Many patriots think that, finally, America is standing up for itself and demonstrating its righteous might. Conservatives are taking out their Vietnam frustrations on Iraqis. Karl Rove is wrapping Bush in the protective cloak of war leader. The military-industrial complex is drooling over the profits of war. And neoconservatives are laying the groundwork for Israeli territorial expansion.

The evening before Thanksgiving Rush Limbaugh was on C-Span TV explaining that these glorious developments would have been impossible if talk radio and the conservative movement had not combined to break the power of the liberal media.

In the Thanksgiving issue of National Review, editor Richard Lowry and former editor John O'Sullivan celebrate Bush's reelection triumph over "a hostile press corps." "Try as they might," crowed O'Sullivan, "they couldn't put Kerry over the top."

There was a time when I could rant about the "liberal media" with the best of them. But in recent years I have puzzled over the precise location of the "liberal media."

Not so long ago I would have identified the liberal media as the New York Times and Washington Post, CNN and the three TV networks, and National Public Radio. But both the Times and the Post fell for the Bush administration's lies about WMD and supported the US invasion of Iraq. On balance CNN, the networks, and NPR have not made an issue of the Bush administration's changing explanations for the invasion.

Apparently, Rush Limbaugh and National Review think there is a liberal media because the prison torture scandal could not be suppressed and a cameraman filmed the execution of a wounded Iraqi prisoner by a US Marine.

Do the Village Voice and The Nation comprise the "liberal media"? The Village Voice is known for Nat Hentoff and his columns on civil liberties. Every good conservative believes that civil liberties are liberal because they interfere with the police and let criminals go free. The Nation favors spending on the poor and disfavors gun rights, but I don't see the "liberal hate" in The Nation's feeble pages that Rush Limbaugh was denouncing on C-Span.

In the ranks of the new conservatives, however, I see and experience much hate. It comes to me in violently worded, ignorant and irrational emails from self-professed conservatives who literally worship George Bush. Even Christians have fallen into idolatry. There appears to be a large number of Americans who are prepared to kill anyone for George Bush.

The Iraqi War is serving as a great catharsis for multiple conservative frustrations: job loss, drugs, crime, homosexuals, pornography, female promiscuity, abortion, restrictions on prayer in public places, Darwinism and attacks on religion. Liberals are the cause. Liberals are against America. Anyone against the war is against America and is a liberal. "You are with us or against us."

This is the mindset of delusion, and delusion permits of no facts or analysis. Blind emotion rules. Americans are right and everyone else is wrong. End of the debate.

That, gentle reader, is the full extent of talk radio, Fox News, the Wall Street Journal Editorial page, National Review, the Weekly Standard, and, indeed, of the entire concentrated corporate media where noncontroversy in the interest of advertising revenue rules.

Once upon a time there was a liberal media. It developed out of the Great Depression and the New Deal. Liberals believed that the private sector is the source of greed that must be restrained by government acting in the public interest. The liberals' mistake was to identify morality with government. Liberals had great suspicion of private power and insufficient suspicion of the power and inclination of government to do good.

Liberals became Benthamites (after Jeremy Bentham). They believed that as the people controlled government through democracy, there was no reason to fear government power, which should be increased in order to accomplish more good.

The conservative movement that I grew up in did not share the liberals' abiding faith in government. "Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."

Today it is liberals, not conservatives, who endeavor to defend civil liberties from the state. Conservatives have been won around to the old liberal view that as long as government power is in their hands, there is no reason to fear it or to limit it. Thus, the Patriot Act, which permits government to suspend a person's civil liberty by calling him a terrorist with or without proof.
Thus, preemptive war, which permits the President to invade other countries based on unverified assertions.

There is nothing conservative about these positions. To label them conservative is to make the same error as labeling the 1930s German Brownshirts conservative.

American liberals called the Brownshirts "conservative," because the Brownshirts were obviously not liberal. They were ignorant, violent, delusional, and they worshipped a man of no known distinction. Brownshirts' delusions were protected by an emotional force field. Adulation of power and force prevented Brownshirts from recognizing implications for their country of their reckless doctrines.

Like Brownshirts, the new conservatives take personally any criticism of their leader and his policies. To be a critic is to be an enemy. I went overnight from being an object of conservative adulation to one of derision when I wrote that the US invasion of Iraq was a "strategic blunder."

It is amazing that only a short time ago the Bush administration and its supporters believed that all the US had to do was to appear in Iraq and we would be greeted with flowers. Has there ever been a greater example of delusion? Isn't this on a par with the Children's Crusade against the Saracens in the Middle Ages?

Delusion is still the defining characteristic of the Bush administration. We have smashed Fallujah, a city of 300,000, only to discover that the 10,000 US Marines are bogged down in the ruins of the city. If the Marines leave, the "defeated" insurgents will return. Meanwhile the insurgents have moved on to destabilize Mosul, a city five times as large. Thus, the call for more US troops.

There are no more troops. Our former allies are not going to send troops. The only way the Bush administration can continue with its Iraq policy is to reinstate the draft.

When the draft is reinstated, conservatives will loudly proclaim their pride that their sons, fathers, husbands and brothers are going to die for "our freedom." Not a single one of them will be able to explain why destroying Iraqi cities and occupying the ruins are necessary for "our freedom." But this inability will not lessen the enthusiasm for the project. To protect their delusions from "reality-based" critics, they will demand that the critics be arrested for treason and silenced. Many encouraged by talk radio already speak this way.

Because of the triumph of delusional "new conservatives" and the demise of the liberal media, this war is different from the Vietnam war. As more Americans are killed and maimed in the pointless carnage, more Americans have a powerful emotional stake that the war not be lost and not be in vain. Trapped in violence and unable to admit mistake, a reckless administration will escalate.

The rapidly collapsing US dollar is hard evidence that the world sees the US as bankrupt. Flight from the dollar as the reserve currency will adversely impact American living standards, which are already falling as a result of job outsourcing and offshore production. The US cannot afford a costly and interminable war.

Falling living standards and inability to impose our will on the Middle East will result in great frustrations that will diminish our country.

Paul Craig Roberts was Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan administration. He was Associate Editor of the Wall Street Journal editorial page and Contributing Editor of National Review.

"To secure these [inalienable] rights [to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness], governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed... Whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness."
--Thomas Jefferson: Declaration of Independence, 1776. ME 1:29, Papers 1:429

Does anyone have an opinion on the trine from tUranus to the U.S. Venus?

Teresa, Sally, could this be part of the tUranus to the US Venus?

Camp Pendelton, Calif. - With the prospect of continued fighting in Iraq, the Marine Corps is offering bonuses of up to $30,000 - in some cases tax-free - to persuade enlisted personnel with combat experience and training to reenlist.

The plan is working, officials said. Less than two months into the fiscal year, Marine reenlistment rates in several key specialties are running 10% to 30% ahead of last year.

For example, officials are confident that by midyear, they will have reached their target for encouraging reenlistment among riflemen, the "grunts" who are key to the Marines' ability to mount offensives against insurgent strongholds such as Fallouja.

In most cases, young Marines are agreeing to stay in their current jobs for four years. In others, they are allowed to transfer into jobs considered equally vital: recruiters, embassy guards and boot camp drill instructors.

skip

If the sergeant reenlists for four years, his bonus is determined by multiplying his monthly pay - $1,817 - by four. That figure then is multiplied by four, a rate set by Marine officials for his skill. The highest skill multiplier is five. For the sergeant, the bonus computes to $29,072. If he reenlists while in Iraq, his bonus, like his regular pay, is tax-exempt.

For grunts, the bonuses are also a sign of recognition... more details..

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/112704I.shtml

Teresa, there are several ways the trine to the US Venus could manifest and will. Venus rules the 6th house (in mundane astrology that would translate to the military and to jobs, and working environments) it also rules the 10th house of careers and leaders and our public standing in the world.)

The military as a whole is going to get sick and tired of serving at minimum pay while independent contractors fighting over there are making big bucks. While there are pockets of discouragement, on the whole the military supports this war, and there are many who are getting out and then signing up with companies that will pay them to fight. Freedom will come easy on the trine for them and they will feel they deserve it.

Another area will be jobs, jobs will increase but more and more of them will be in other countries. While those of us over 50 see what's happening as a destruction to our way of life, those under 40 see this as new opportunities and exciting adventures.

The people will more easily accept world globalization, moving toward a New World Order. However if the leaders of this country try to impose more severe restrictions of the movement of people then there will be a rebellion of those restrictions, especially when Uranus moves on to a trine to US Jupiter. However when Uranus arrives at 12/13 Pisces in a trine to the US Sun and incoj to US Saturn while Neptune trines US Saturn, people will accept more restrictions as the Sun/Saturn square is set off.

Someone said that the US would always be a wealthy country with the Venus/Jupiter conj. in Cancer. I hasten to add that will be the case as long as we are working off the 1776 Constitution, however as many countries and astrologers can tell you, countries are reorganized and new energies come in changing constitutions, dynamics, and directions of countries, we will have to see if that happens to the United States and new charts with new potentials and different dynamics. Not all countries that have reorganized retained the wealth or peace of their former energy.

Isabel, That article you posted from Paul Craig Roberts is so insightful! What do we do? Just wait for matters
to play themselves out? Lorraine

The content of the song referred to this in this is more appropriate to Vis' commentary on Pluto et al three threads back, but nobody much is reading older threads.
Johnny Cash's voice is the voice of the ages calling humanity to witness 'when the Man comes around' for the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse: Bush, Cheney,Rumsfeld, Ashcroft.
Made all the hair stand up on my body!
http://www.hit-country-music-lyrics.com/johnnycashlyrics-mancomesaround.html

You may not like Oliver Cromwell but it was during the English Civil War that some of the ideas that became embodied in the American Declaration of Independence were first formulated. It was also Cromwell's Secretary of Foreign Tongues, the Puritan poet John Milton, who wrote the treatise Aeropagitica , which is widely regarded as one of the greatest arguments for freedom of the press. Personally, I think that the Bush dynasty's view of their 'divine right' to rule has as much in common with the government of Charles I as it did the man who replaced him.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/112804X.shtml

'Unusual Weapons' Used in Fallujah

 Baghdad - The U.S. military has used poison gas and other non-conventional weapons against civilians in Fallujah, eyewitnesses report..

    "Poisonous gases have been used in Fallujah," 35-year-old trader from Fallujah Abu Hammad told IPS. "They used everything -- tanks, artillery, infantry, poison gas. Fallujah has been bombed to the ground."

    Hammad is from the Julan district of Fallujah where some of the heaviest fighting occurred. Other residents of that area report the use of illegal weapons.

    "They used these weird bombs that put up smoke like a mushroom cloud," Abu Sabah, another Fallujah refugee from the Julan area told IPS. "Then small pieces fall from the air with long tails of smoke behind them."

    He said pieces of these bombs exploded into large fires that burnt the skin even when water was thrown on the burns. Phosphorous weapons as well as napalm are known to cause such effects. "People suffered so much from these," he said.

    Macabre accounts of killing of civilians are emerging through the cordon U.S. forces are still maintaining around Fallujah.

    "Doctors in Fallujah are reporting to me that there are patients in the hospital there who were forced out by the Americans," said Mehdi Abdulla, a 33-year-old ambulance driver at a hospital in Baghdad. "Some doctors there told me they had a major operation going, but the soldiers took the doctors away and left the patient to die."

    Kassem Mohammed Ahmed who escaped from Fallujah a little over a week ago told IPS he witnessed many atrocities committed by U.S. soldiers in the city.

More....

Interesting

http://www.investopedia.com/articles/technical/111401.asp

Ralph Nelson Elliott, developed the Elliott Wave principle in the late 1920s by discovering that stock markets, thought to behave in a somewhat chaotic manner, in fact, did not. They did, however, trade in what he called repetitive cycles, which he discovered were the emotions of investors as a cause of outside influences, or predominant psychology of the masses at the time. He had stated that the upward and downward swings of the mass psychology always showed up in the same repetitive patterns, which were then divided into patterns he termed Waves. The Theory is somewhat based upon the Dow Theory inasmuch as the price movements also move in waves. It was understood by the technicians at the time that because of the fractal nature of the markets, Elliot was able to breakdown and analyse the markets in much greater detail.

This allowed him to spot unique characteristics of wave patterns and making detailed market predictions based on the patterns he had identified. Fractals are mathematical structures, which on an ever-smaller scale infinitely repeat themselves. The patterns that Elliott discovered are built in the same way. An impulsive wave, which goes with the main trend, always shows five waves in its pattern. On a smaller scale, within each of the impulsive waves of the before mentioned impulse, again five waves will be found. In this smaller pattern, the same pattern repeats itself ad infinitum (these ever smaller patterns are labelled as different wave degrees in the Elliott Wave Principle) Only much later were fractals recognized by scientists.

More...

Maybe 6000 dead in Fallujah...

http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/news_service/middle_east_full_story.asp?service_id=5853

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/112804A.shtml

U.S. Campaign Behind the Turmoil in Kiev

With their websites and stickers, their pranks and slogans aimed at banishing widespread fear of a corrupt regime, the democracy guerrillas of the Ukrainian Pora youth movement have already notched up a famous victory - whatever the outcome of the dangerous stand-off in Kiev.

    Ukraine, traditionally passive in its politics, has been mobilized by the young democracy activists and will never be the same again.

    But while the gains of the orange-bedecked "chestnut revolution" are Ukraine's, the campaign is an American creation, a sophisticated and brilliantly conceived exercise in western branding and mass marketing that, in four countries in four years, has been used to try to salvage rigged elections and topple unsavory regimes.

    Funded and organized by the US government, deploying US consultancies, pollsters, diplomats, the two big American parties and US non-government organizations, the campaign was first used in Europe in Belgrade in 2000 to beat Slobodan Milosevic at the ballot box.

    Richard Miles, the US ambassador in Belgrade, played a key role. And by last year, as US ambassador in Tbilisi, he repeated the trick in Georgia, coaching Mikhail Saakashvili in how to bring down Eduard Shevardnadze.

    Ten months after the success in Belgrade, the US ambassador in Minsk, Michael Kozak, a veteran of similar operations in central America, notably in Nicaragua, organized a near identical campaign to try to defeat the Belarus hardman, Alexander Lukashenko.

    That one failed. "There will be no Kostunica in Belarus," the Belarus president declared, referring to the victory in Belgrade.

    But experience gained in Serbia, Georgia and Belarus has been invaluable in plotting to beat the regime of Leonid Kuchma in Kiev.

    The operation - engineering democracy through the ballot box and civil disobedience - is now so slick that the methods have matured into a template for winning other people's elections.

    In the center of Belgrade, there is a dingy office staffed by computer-literate youngsters who call themselves the Centre for Non-violent Resistance. If you want to know how to beat a regime that controls the mass media, the judges, the courts, the security apparatus and the voting stations, the young Belgrade activists are for hire.

More...

Is the Annexation of Canada part of Bush's Military Agenda?

http://globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO411C.html

What do you think of this one?

OG

Pat C. Your article about the soldiers telling the doctors to stop performing a surgery and to let the patient die is so distrurbing. I'm really afraid for this country. How can a US President make Saddam Hussien look good? Why is it that if the media points out serious war crimes by our troops - we are almost considered traitors? This doesn't seem like the great country I thought I grew up in, it seems like an evil empire. The only way I have been able to deal with all of this is to focus on election fraud. Am I the only one who still thinks there is a chance Kerry will be sworn in?

No one is truly great unless they tell the truth, admit when they are wrong, and spend their energy on repairing, healing, saving, uniting, not killing others to defend their egos and position of power. Iraq needs to govern itself. Even if there will be an election in January, where are the candidates?

something to look forward to....

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/gate/archive/2004/11/22/hsorensen.DTL&type=printable

Suzie Liberal, I keep telling myself that it aint over till the fat lady sings. She hasn't sung yet.

Chhipping away at Roe vs Wade....

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/printer_112904Y.shtml

Pat C

I hear her rehearsing in the wings......

wv, We are seeing the profound importance of a free press to democracy. Without it, the coup is doable.

There is a Writ of Mandamus hanging in the wings too. I know it's not probable, but I am giving it energy.

THE APOCALYPSE IS ITS OWN SOLUTION
> By Paul Levy
>
> We are living in apocalyptic times. Our country and the entire world are in a state of profound dissociation. The opposites being completely split and polarized like they are is itself an expression of some deeper process that is emerging or incarnating. To quote the great doctor of the soul C. G. Jung, "the sickness of dissociation in our world is at the same time a process of recovery, or rather, the climax of a period of pregnancy which heralds the throes of birth."
> Psychologically speaking, apocalyptic phenomena represent the birth, in full-bodied manifestation of what Jung calls the archetype of "the Self." In religious terminology, the emergence of the Self is analogous to the incarnation of God or the coming of the Messiah. Being a conjunction of opposites, when the Self, or God incarnates, the opposites split and become totally polarized. As Jung points out "If God reveals his nature and takes on definite form as a man, then the opposites in him must fly apart: here good, there evil." The perfect symbol re-presenting this is the Christ event, in which God incarnated through one man 2000 years ago. When read symbolically, as a dreaming process, God's dark and light sides were totally split and completely polarized in the figures of Christ, who was totally light, and Satan, who was the embodiment of the darkest evil. To quote Jung, "It looks as if the superabundance of light on one side had produced an all the blacker darkness on the
> other."
> There was a complete dissociation between the two. Referring to God during his incarnation as Christ, Jung points out "Had he only given an account of his actions to himself, he would have seen what a fearful dissociation he had got into through his incarnation." The opposites being totally polarized like they are in our world today is itself an expression that some deeper process is emerging and being revealed to us. The inner meaning of the word apocalypse is 'something hidden being revealed.'
> The deep dissociation in our world today is itself a reflection of the inner split in the collective consciousness of all of humanity, and we could say, the mind of God, as well. To quote Jung "All opposites are of God, thereby man must bend to this burden; and in so doing he finds that God in his 'oppositeness' has taken possession of him, incarnated in him. He becomes a vessel filled with divine conflict." To the extent that this conflict is not dealt with consciously via the inner process of individuation, it will be unconsciously acted out and 'dreamed up' in the external world in a destructive way, as is fully evidenced by what is happening on our planet today.
> Christ on the cross is the perfect symbol of holding the 'tension of the opposites,' as the cross symbolizes both the state of being a 'vessel filled with divine conflict,' while at the same time being a symbol uniting the opposites. To quote Jung, to find yourself genuinely imitating Christ is to find yourself going through a "symbolic crucifixion experience" where we gain "a growing awareness of God's oppositeness, in which man can participate if he does not shrink from being wounded by the dividing sword which is Christ. Only through the most extreme and most menacing conflict does the Christian experience deliverance into divinity, always provided that he does not break, but accepts the burden of being marked out by God. In this way alone can the imago Dei [God-image] realize itself in him, and God become man." It is by holding the 'tension of the opposites,' and not splitting off and projecting out the shadow does the Self incarnate through humanity. To quote Jung "This
> is the
> meaning of divine service, of the service which man can render to God, that light may emerge from the darkness, that the Creator may become conscious of His creation, and man conscious of himself."
> Because God wants to incarnate in humanity, the uniting of the opposites that are intrinsic to God's nature must take place in humanity, too. To quote the Trappist monk and author Thomas Merton, "For we must see that the meaning of man has been totally changed by the Crucifixion: every man is Christ on the Cross, whether he realizes it or not. But we, if we are Christians [and we are all 'Christians'], must learn to realize it." We need to wake up and recognize the deeper process ("every man is Christ on the Cross") that pervades the entire field and is enacting itself through each and every one of us.
> Instead of 'holding the tension of the opposites' that the cross symbolizes, however, the religious right splits-off from and dissociates from their shadow, projecting out and dreaming up their own darkness 'out there.' By then trying to destroy this darkness they become possessed by it. Born-again Christians who feel that the apocalypse is soon to happen and are waiting for the 'rapture' are missing the entire point. Fundamentalists who buy into end-time prophecies and are willing to destroy other people to prepare for the coming of the Christ are completely misguided.
> It is a very dangerous situation we are in- because of the position of power they find themselves in, the religious right can literally dream up and create the very apocalypse that they are imagining is prophesized, like a Self-fulfilling prophecy. In a perversely self-reinforcing feedback-loop, the more death and destruction happens, the more this confirms to them the truth that their deluded end-time scenario is actually happening as prophesized. In a diabolical self-validating vicious cycle, the religious right are ignoring the role they are playing in creating exactly what they are using as evidence to prove the rightness of their viewpoint
> Seen symbolically, when Christ is on the cross God is in such an extremely dissociated and traumatized state that he is not just attacking himself but is actually killing himself, literally committing suicide. The cross perfectly symbolizes the mysterious correspondence and correlation between incarnation (of the Self) and the self-destructive nature of trauma. Is there a deeper meaning to why our culture's myth of the incarnation of God 2000 years ago in Christ was in the form of a trauma, of an abuse drama (the crucifixion)? Is there a difference between God, who is one with everything and all, putting nails through his own body during the crucifixion, and propelling jet planes through skyscrapers on September 11?
> When contemplated as a dreaming process, the fact that the apocalypse archetype is activated deep inside the human psyche and is playing itself out collectively in this world of ours means that the Self, or what some call God, is incarnating not just through one man, like it did through Christ 2000 years ago, but is incarnating through all of humanity. Christ was the first attempt of God to incarnate and transform itself. Now humanity as a whole will be the subject of this process.
> To quote Jung "the imago Dei pervades the whole human sphere and makes mankind its involuntary exponent." We, as a species have all gotten drafted into a deeper, more powerful archetypal, transpersonal process that has so taken possession of us that it is unconsciously acting itself out through us. It is like we are all playing roles in a mythic, archetypal drama, what Jung would call a "divine drama of incarnation." God is incarnating through humanity, and in that incarnated form it offers itself as a self-sacrifice to bring about its own transformation- just like what happened to Christ 2000 years ago. The ordeal that humanity is undergoing is the sacrificial act to bring about the transformation of what Jung would call the "not yet transformed God" entering the human sphere in search of its own transformation. By this self-sacrifice and self-destruction God is bringing about its own transformation just like it did through Christ, though this time, instead of being
> incarnated in one person, God is incarnating in the mortal, fleshy body of all of humanity.
> What is happening in our world right now IS the second Coming of Christ, what Jung calls the "Christification of many." If not recognized, however, we will continue to unconsciously act this process out (Self)destructively, where we all become suicide bombers, killing none other than our(Selves). Being possessed by a deeper archetypal force and acting it out unconsciously is always traumatic and always results in self-destruction. The only way to heal from trauma is to assimilate it, which demands that we radically evolve to a higher state. Trauma is therefore initiatory, as it furthers the evolution of the species. To say trauma is initiatory means that the experience of trauma itself is the very medium through which a deeper level of consciousness is potentially actualized.
> To quote Jung, the "incarnation of God- the essence of the Christian message- can then be understood as man's creative confrontation with the opposites and their synthesis in the Self, the wholeness of his personality." If enough of us wake up to that the archetype of the Self is incarnating through us we can connect with each other and channel this process consciously as 'collective reciprocal individuation,' in which we mutually support and strengthen each other's lucidity and realization. This is to recognize that we are all interconnected appendages in the 'mystical body of Christ,' which is to realize that we are not separate from each other but are actually all on the same side. This is to snap out of the self-perpetuating illusion of the fear-based separate self and recognize that we are one(Self). We can then collaboratively hook up with each other and work together to create a container so that we can metabolize this more powerful archetypal energy and express it cre
> atively,
> constructively and compassionately. This is an evolutionary impulse offered us by the universe that we are invited to participate in.
> We play a crucial role in the divine incarnation process. We become the medium through which God reconciles, resolves and reunites the opposites intrinsic to the totality of its nature. We become the instrument through which God becomes aware of itself and incarnates itself into, as and through this world of ours. To quote Jung "Man is the mirror which God holds up to himself, or the sense organ with which he apprehends his being."
> If Christ is God incarnate, no one could have taken his life away from him against his wishes. Seen as a dreaming process, those who betrayed Christ, conspired against him, or killed him, were less fully responsible agents than instruments or tools in the hands of God. There is a hidden correlation between evil on the one hand and the work of incarnation, salvation and redemption on the other. God has mysterious ways of accomplishing his secret intentions. As Christ hangs on the cross, to quote Jung "the 'prince of this world,' the devil, vanquishes the God-man at this point, although by so doing he is presumably preparing his own defeat and digging his own grave. According to an old view, Christ is the 'bait on the hook' (the Cross) with which he catches 'Leviathan" (the devil)." Seen symbolically, this is analogous to what is happening current day, as after the election the 'prince of this world' has seemingly vanquished all that is Good and Virtuous and has become ruler of
> this
> world. Might he be 'digging his own grave' in the process?
> The very process of us mutually dreaming up the expected and prophesized apocalypse is itself the very vehicle or medium through which we potentially wake up to the fact that we are all collaboratively dreaming up our universe together. Encoded in these apocalyptic times are the clues for its own integration and transcendence. The symptoms of our time contain within themselves, in hidden symbolic form, the key to their re-solution. The key to how our situation manifests depends on whether or not we recognize the deeper process that is symbolically revealing itself to us as it acts itself out through us. Becoming conscious is the key, for consciousness itself is the agency through which both God and humanity become transformed and inter-mingled as one.
> People, fundamentalist Christian or otherwise, who are waiting for the coming of the Messiah are 'missing the mark,' which is the inner meaning of the word 'sin.' WE are and always have been the very Messiah we are waiting for. It is simply a question of whether we recognize this or not. Let's realize this, for God's sake, as well as our own.
>
> Paul Levy is a spiritually-informed political activist. He can be reached at paul@awakeninthedream.com. Please visit his website at www.awakeninthedream.com, where his article "The Madness of George Bush: A Reflection of Our Collective Psychosis" is available. Please feel free to pass this article along to a friend if you feel so inspired. © Copyright 2004.
>
>

http://mathewgross.com/blog/archives/001041.html

The Politics of Victimization

by Mel Gilles

An advocate for victims of domestic abuse draws some parallels between her work and the reaction of many Democrats to the election.

Excerpts:

They beat us because they are abusers. We can call it hate. We can call it fear. We can say it is unfair. But we are looped into the cycle of violence, and we need to start calling the dominating side what they are: abusive. And we need to recognize that we are the victims of verbal, mental, and even, in the case of Iraq, physical violence.

As victims we can't stop asking ourselves what we did wrong. We can't seem to grasp that they will keep hitting us and beating us as long as we keep sticking around and asking ourselves what we are doing to deserve the beating. ...

[W]e absolutely must dispense with the notion that we are weak, godless, cowardly, disorganized, crazy, too liberal, naive, amoral, "loose", irrelevant, outmoded, stupid and soon to be extinct. We have the mandate of the world to back us, and the legacy of oppressed people throughout history.

Full article at:
http://mathewgross.com/blog/archives/001041.html

Bill Moyers Leaves PBS in the Middle of a Rebalancing Act
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/112904V.shtml

Ukraine 101
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/11/28/21151/043

Very interesting comments made by Rev. Jesse Jackson and others in OH. Gave me some hope that the issue is being framed so that popular response can be loud, focused and effective. Would you astrologers care to comment on the possibilities? Thanks.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=86568&mesg_id=86568

More on the challenge:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x87727

For a summary of Wayne Madsen replies to DU questioners yesterday, go here:

Madsen replies to DU questions

Interestingly, he uses to name CASOLARO... (You all remember what happened to Danny in that hotel room)

If you have helpful info for Wayne Madsen, he can be reached at wmadsen777@aol.com

Good morning, Pat C. I hope Madsen isn't taking us (including himself) on a ride to nowhere. I'm hopeful. After reading Jesse Jackson (et al.)'s comments in OH, my hopes received quite a litte boost. If Mandela could sustain a movement from his prison cell for all those years, . . .

Good morning shylurker. I feel like I'm in a state of limbo, unable to lean too far in any direction. There are events out there that are hopeful, and then there is the fact that the GOP is stacking the courts, GOP Looks to Breakup 9th Circuit
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/113004Z.shtml . That being just one very disturbing step into fascism. It is beyond my comprehention what the US would look like in 2008.

Posted on an AOL Message Board:

You may have seen the associated press story about the precinct in Cuyahoga county that had less than 1,000 voters, and gave Bush almost 4,000 extra votes.
But that turns out to be only the tip of a very ugly iceberg. The evidence discovered by some remarkably careful sleuthing would convince any reasonable court to invalidate the entire Ohio election.

In last Tuesday's election, 29 precincts in Cuyahoga County, Ohio, reported votes cast IN EXCESS of the number of registered voters - at least 93,136 extra votes total. And the numbers are right there on the official Cuyahoga County Board of Elections website:

Bay Village - 13,710 registered voters / 18,663 ballots cast
Beachwood - 9,943 registered voters / 13,939 ballots cast
Bedford - 9,942 registered voters / 14,465 ballots cast
Bedford Heights - 8,142 registered voters / 13,512 ballots cast

Brooklyn - 8,016 registered voters / 12,303 ballots cast
Brooklyn Heights - 1,144 registered voters / 1,869 ballots cast
Chagrin Falls Village - 3,557 registered voters / 4,860 ballots cast
Cuyahoga Heights - 570 registered voters / 1,382 ballots cast
Fairview Park - 13,342 registered voters / 18,472 ballots cast
Highland Hills Village - 760 registered voters / 8,822 ballots cast
Independence - 5,735 registered voters / 6,226 ballots cast
Mayfield Village - 2,764 registered voters / 3,145 ballots cast
Middleburg Heights - 12,173 registered voters / 14,854 ballots cast
Moreland Hills Village - 2,990 registered voters / 4,616 ballots cast
North Olmstead - 25,794 registered voters / 25,887 ballots cast
Olmstead Falls - 6,538 registered voters / 7,328 ballots cast
Pepper Pike - 5,131 registered voters / 6,479 ballots cast
Rocky River - 16,600 registered voters / 20,070 ballots cast
Solon (WD6) - 2,292 registered voters / 4,300 ballots cast
South Euclid - 16,902 registered voters / 16,917 ballots cast
Strongsville (WD3) - 7,806 registered voters / 12,108 ballots cast
University Heights - 10,072 registered voters / 11,982 ballots cast
Valley View Village - 1,787 registered voters / 3,409 ballots cast
Warrensville Heights - 10,562 registered voters / 15,039 ballots cast
Woodmere Village - 558 registered voters / 8,854 ballots cast
Bedford (CSD) - 22,777 registered voters / 27,856 ballots cast
Independence (LSD) - 5,735 registered voters / 6,226 ballots cast
Orange (CSD) - 11,640 registered voters / 22,931 ballots cast
Warrensville (CSD) - 12,218 registered voters / 15,822 ballots cast

The Republicans are so BUSTED.
http://boe.cuyahogacounty.us/BOE/results/currentresults1.htm#top
is the official website of the Cuyahoga county election board, providing irrefutable evidence that the vote was off by at least 93,000.

Kerry lost Ohio by approximately 130,000, so this is not an insignificant
figure that can be ignored, particularly when there are numerous other
indications of voter fraud in Ohio and elsewhere. I think the only possible alternative is to invalidate the entire Ohio election, if not the entire national election.
I'd say the game's up.America, it looks pretty much like you've been had.

Sincerely,

Teed Rockwell, Philosophy Dept., Sonoma State University

PLEASE TAKE ACTION, TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE. PLEASE FORWARD TO EVERYONE.

BUSH HAS NOT YET BEEN CHOSEN BY THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE.
THE ELECTORS MEET AND VOTE ON DEC. 13.
QUESTIONS NEED TO BE RAISED ABOUT THE RESULTS
- AND RAISED LOUDLY - TO GET AN INVESTIGATION LAUNCHED BEFORE THAT DATE.
SO FAR, THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA IS NOT PICKING UP THE STORY.
THEY MOVED VERY SLOWLY AFTER THE 2000 ELECTION.

Petition for a nationwide revote

http://www.thePetitionSite.com/takeaction/636288161
Please help by signing this petition. It takes 30 seconds and will really help. Please follow this link:
The system centralizes signature collection to provide consolidated, useful reports for petition authors and targets. Please forward this email to others you believe share your concern. To view additional petitions, please click here:
http://www.thePetitionSite.com

Thank you
Jeanne
Total Signatures: 2,179
The most recent signatures* as of 2:48 PM PST Nov 24, 2004

# 2,179 11/24/04 2:48 PM Jeanne Peters,
# 2,178 11/24/04 2:06 PM Anonymous, CA, US
# 2,177 11/24/04 1:55 PM Elliott Denniston, MO, US
# 2,176 11/24/04 1:49 PM Don Crozier, MO, US
# 2,175 11/24/04 1:49 PM Mary Detweiler, VA, US
# 2,174 11/24/04 1:46 PM Jonathan Wilson, IA, US
# 2,173 11/24/04 1:32 PM Elaine Swavely, PW, US
# 2,172 11/24/04 1:03 PM Anonymous, CA, US
# 2,171 11/24/04 12:57 PM Lynne Powell, CA, US
# 2,170 11/24/04 12:50 PM Miriam Callaghan, NY, US
# 2,169 11/24/04 12:45 PM Patricia Schwab, CA, US
# 2,168 11/24/04 12:40 PM Anonymous, WI, US
# 2,167 11/24/04 12:31 PM Anonymous, MN, US
# 2,166 11/24/04 12:26 PM Anonymous, CA, US
# 2,165 11/24/04 12:19 PM Barbara Gray, CA, US
# 2,164 11/24/04 11:31 AM Russell Gerber, MN, US
# 2,163 11/24/04 11:25 AM Anonymous, NM, US
# 2,162 11/24/04 11:16 AM Anonymous, MN, US
# 2,161 11/24/04 11:09 AM Gustavo Rojas, ID, US
# 2,160 11/24/04 11:05 AM Paula Sexter, GU, US
# 2,159 11/24/04 11:01 AM Eric Kenney, AZ, US
# 2,158 11/24/04 10:54 AM Meg (Margaret Fay) Wichser, CT, US
# 2,157 11/24/04 10:47 AM Anonymous, DE, US
# 2,156 11/24/04 10:43 AM SUE & PETER COHEN, MD, US
# 2,155 11/24/04 10:28 AM Rhonda Leighty, MN, US
# 2,154 11/24/04 10:01 AM Christine A. Mamas, PA, US

To add your name to this petition go to:

 http://www.thePetitionSite.com/takeaction/636288161

*Signers may choose to hide their identity to the public. Such names will appear as "Anonymous" on the PetitionSite.com and advocacy emails similar to this. (The signature number above may not match the number assigned to your signature on the first page of the petition.) To view additional petitions, please click here:
http://www.thePetitionSite.com

Are you in Ohio, or do you know anyone in Ohio?

 http://www.uacitizensforchange.com/rally/

Pat C

Even if there were another election, I for one
would not vote Kerry. On Nov.3 he told me more
about him than I care to know. He is NOT a man
of his words. Most people I know that voted for
him did so reluctantly, and would not make the
same mistake twice.

He's better than Bush wv.

The Nazis called it "Gleichschaltung"

Which basically means "streamlining." It's the word they used to refer
to their process of Nazifying every German insitution that had been
resisting Hitler's revolution. Thus they worked to "streamline" academia,
the courts, the press, etc., etc.

GOP Looks to Breakup 9th Circuit
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/113004Z.shtml

WV: I'm sorry that you feel disapointed in Kerry. At least having him in place of G. Bush would have allowed the dismanteling of the Project For The New American Century. A biggie for me!

Hello all and I hope you all had a fine holiday.

Now, read this: O'Reilly defends Dan Rather?
And yet he does. But why now?

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/257225p-220135c.html

Namaste all, white light over our beloved country and TRUTH!!!!(And a special hello to Old Granny!!!
I've been away from the computer for awhile.)

http://www.veteransforcommonsense.org/
Veterans for Common Sense

Sound like anything you've heard in the US?

China 'gray lists' its intellectuals
Recently the rising stars of popular magazines, intellectuals are now
being charged with 'elitism.' By Robert Marquand
http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/1130/p01s03-woap.html?s=hns

WV, I second everything you just said. I am finnished with Kerry. I too was a reluctant Kerry voter being a former Dean supporter.

Death from the sky....

http://207.44.245.159/article7384.htm

Joshua Micah Marshall at talkingpointsmemo.com has a wonderful idea: All bills must be posted at least three days before they are to be voted on AND they must be publicly posted, including on the "internets". Go visit, read and if you support (how could you not?), do drop him a line and let him know. Baby steps, yes, but we have GOT to take this country back. Remember: they voted in the Patriot Act even though only one of them had read the damned thing and this last Ominous (Omnibus) Budget Act was thousands of pages long and had tucked into it the tiny little provision that would have allowed access to our IRS files by some Senate and some House honcho.

Isabelle,

Your article is so informative and interesting, not just of astrology but of history.

I learned things from you in the article I never was taught in school - vaguely I remember in grade school being taught Cromwell, but with a positive spin on his reformations --- ahh - so America is still attempting to brainwash and bring up little puritans - and they appear to have a winning hand - at least in Congress at the moment.

How I wish we had the determination and bravery of
the Ukranians.

And would that we could have something like this justice for the injustices being perpetrated to look forward to "sooner rather than later":

"Cromwell’s “corpse was exhumed and dangled from a gibbet at Tyburn” and his head was displayed for over twenty years there "

Thanks Isabelle. Wonderful writing.

Pallas18

A site that delineates parts of the bible as referencing dimson as the anti-christ:

http://www.bushisantichrist.com/

long reading, some making sense, and some not...

interesting reading on the 10 crowns and seven heads...

when it speaks of the one small one coming from the "four" - I think the author might be wrong -
and that Jeb's son, who is also named George I think, is the next threat.

Aside from that,,,I begin to wonder if anywhere in Latin/South America will be safe - why so many
Latinos in dimson's new cabinet? Is he intending to annex Latin America?

does anyone know of a site that has pictures of modern iraq before the war?

John Pilger has long been my favorite investigative reporter, and he says what is happening in South America is very important to all of us. http://pilger.carlton.com/

.........................

http://denvervoice.org/features/Nov_2004/who_is_the_denver_post.htm

Media Blackout on Election Fraud by Media News Group
 
.........................

http://salon.com/opinion/feature/2004/11/30/ukraine_election/print.html

Democracy inaction
If  U.S. officials who are complaining about election fraud in Ukraine applied the same standards in Ohio, then our own presidential election certainly was stolen.

By James K. Galbraith

.........................

The extreme bravery of invetigative reportes is widely underestimated.

http://salon.com/mwt/feature/2004/11/30/iris_chang/print.html

How "Iris Chang" became a verb
The author of "The Rape of Nanking" inspired her friends by fearlessly confronting some of history's darkest moments. A eulogy.

Wow!
Pallas 18, that is a powerful site, & it backs up my intuitive reading of the situation to a T.
PQOP

So if Jorge, el pequeno, might be the next threat, Pallas, then it is getting more and more obvious why W is peppering the government with Hispanic officials, since Jeb's wife is Hispanic. Also, that voting block is growing fast and they would like them to be loyal to the Republicans. As the economy gets worse and worse, along with the war, the other ones left who are loyal to this administration/Republicans will be truly blind fools.

..."the ONLY ones left"...

http://first-draft.com/

War Crimes charges, they seem to be all the rage these days.

The Canadians are itching to file charges against Chimpy this week, the Humanitarian Law Project has petitioned the Organization of American States to investigate the war crimes of one of its member states (the U.S.), the top human rights official at the UN has promised that those responsible for war crimes in Iraq will be brought to justice, and head of the Turkish Parliament's Human Rights Commission has accused U.S. forces of war crimes in Fallujah.

Now Don Rumsfeld and George Tenet are to be charged with war crimes today in Germany:

Lawyers acting for a U.S. advocacy group will today file war crimes charges in Germany against senior U.S. administration officials for their alleged role in torture at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.

"German law in this area is leading the world," Peter Weiss, Vice President of the New York-based Centre for Constitutional Rights (CCR), a human rights group, was quoted as saying in Frankfurter Rundschau newspaper's Tuesday edition.

According to the group, German law allows war criminals to be investigated wherever they may be living.

Those to be named in the case to be filed at Germany's Federal Prosecutors Office include Secretary of Defence Donald Rumsfeld, former Central Intelligence Agency chief George Tenet and eight other officials.

Astrologers - Any chance any of this will stick???

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/november2004/221104ourleader.htm

Mysterious ‘George W. Bush: Our leader’ Clear Channel political public service billboard graces Orlando freeway

Raw Story | November 22 2004

A billboard recently put up in Orlando bearing a smiling photograph of President Bush with the words “Our Leader” is raising eyebrows among progressives who feel the poster is akin to that of propaganda used by tyrannical regimes

Shades of 1984?? Nobody questions this stuff??

Here is another.

http://www.ccr-ny.org/v2/reports/report.asp?ObjID=CXrMV1qEio&Content=470

CCR SEEKS CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION IN GERMANY INTO CUPALBILITY OF U.S. OFFICIALS IN ABU GHRAIB TORTURE
German Prosecutor Asked to Meet Obligations under Law Requiring Investigation into Torture and War Crimes

Synopsis

In a historic effort to hold high-ranking U.S. officials accountable for brutal acts of torture including the widely publicized abuses carried out at Abu Ghraib, on Tuesday November 30, 2004, CCR and four Iraqi citizens will file a criminal complaint with the German Federal Prosecutor’s Office at the Karlsruhe Court, Karlsruhe, Germany.  Under the doctrine of universal jurisdiction suspected war criminals may be prosecuted irrespective of where they are located.

The four Iraqis were victims of gruesome crimes including severe beatings, sleep and food deprivation, hooding and sexual abuse.  (Further details of the treatment of the complainants will be provided after the filing.)

The U. S. officials charged include Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, Former CIA Director George Tenet, Undersecretary of Defense for Intelligence Dr. Steven Cambone, Lieutenant General Ricardo Sanchez, Major General Walter Wojdakowski, Major General Geoffrey Miller, Brigadier General Janis L. Karpinski, Lieutenant Colonel Jerry L. Phillabaum, Colonel Thomas Pappas, and Lieutenant Colonel Stephen L. Jordan. 

Please check back on our home page in the next day for an opportunity to write the German prosecutor in support of the investigation:  it is critical that he hear from as many people as possible so he feels worldwide pressure to pursue the case.

My mind keeps questioning the happenings in Ukraine. On the surface of it the people are courageously demanding redress for voter irregularities. That Bush and Co. support this action, and that the media is driving support for it, makes me very suspicious and I wonder if things are not what they appear to be. Could this be yet another staged coup to consolodate 'friendly' worldwide power?

Oh yeah! Will it be Putin's coup, or more of a western coup? That is the question.

The Pentagon stumbles on the truth...finally...

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/printer_120104V.shtml

Thanks Isabelle, for a thought-provoking article. I've always thought of the Puritans in a benevolent light (that's how they taught it in School!): the harried Faithful, having to pull up stakes to find a haven for themselves, 4,000 miles away. Hmmmmm

Nexxus: I loved your post up above, regarding the planets and being under the hammer of extreme religiosity. The fact that "I think religious fundamentalism will take a back seat to a major economic depression in the USA - these are luxuries of properous societies".

I've never viewed fundamentalism as a luxury item, like Imported Chestnuts from Paris, or Beluga Caviar from the Caspian, but why not? I actually believe fundamentalism is driven not by prosperity but by extremes of fear, which I'll explain below.

I've read that environmental concerns, giving to charity, even ethics are all a function of prosperity. You lose your job, and you'll cancel your donation to the local GoodWill. You won't be so worried about the purity of the local Watershed.

You stay unemployed long enough, and suddenly you realize the grocery store is dumping perfectly good produce in the dumpster. You might even consider going to the Catered Event in the Multnomah Room and pretend you belong, and have a lovely dinner free of charge.

I'm not being critical, the point I'm trying to make here is that our ethics are subject to the harshness or ease of our daily life.

The thin veneer of society is a fragile one, indeed.

Ruling through fear: As much as the government tries to paint a rosy picture, they are in fact filled with fear. Their actions show this. Consider Dick Cheney who told Sen. Leahy to "Go fuck himself" a while back. Look at Bush's face. Looks stressed.

The fear can be traced directly to our dependence on foreign oil, and how these venues are increasingly become volatile, marked by terrorist attacks, bombings of pipelines, etc. With China looming in the distance as our Unspoken Enemy #2, the sweat stains get bigger under the arms.

Regarding the war in Iraq, Stan Goff remarked that "these are acts of desperation". He felt that the planning was slipshod, poorly executed, resulting in many deaths on both sides.

I believe, in fact, that religious fundamentalism feeds off of fear. It's a linear equation, more fear = more need to control others.

As we squander our remaining resources in this War in Iraq, expect fundamentalism and fear to increase. We're not solving the problems related to the Oil Insecurity. If anyting, we're exacerbating them which can only have one effect: increased panic.

I also believe that the Republicans, in their dire need to control certain parts of the world, made the ultimate sell-out: they allied themselves with the Religious Fundamentalists in order to strengthen their base. It was a big concession, but they needed more numbers.

THE BIG SELL-OUT

I'm currently writing an article called, "The Republicans and the Unholy Alliance". I'll explain what happened to the Repubs these past 30 years and how they ousted the Fiscal Moderates and opened the door to the Fanatic elements. They merged their ideologies. The Repugs became more fanatical, and the Fanatics became more Materialistic.

Sure enough, the litmus test would be the little Fundie receptionist at my office. A few months back, we were discussing Peak oil and resources over lunch (this little fanatic often whips out her bible & reads to us sinners, just in case).

Her comment [on oil]: "We're supposed to used these resources". My glazed eyes opened slightly. What did she say? "Yes, the bible says we're supposed to use trees, and stuff like that. You know".

After a few days of pondering, the mystery was solved. The religious nuts have no compunction with raping and pillaging what's left of this earth, because they're allied with the Republicans! Her screen saver which flashed Bush's face & angered many office workers, attested to that fact.

Greed and righteousness is what they have in common, and fear is the cement that holds them together.

Excellent point Cliss.

I would only add that the phenomenon you describe is also going on elsewhere in the world. Just look at the Saudi royals and their alliance with fundamentalists. Oil and religion go hand in hand these days.

----

On another note, historians will likely remember this period as the Jane Crow era or something like that. Well over a year ago, I pointed out to several people that the gay marriage issue was likely to be important. Of course, I believed that it would spin the other way and that people would see Bush for the intolerant bigot that he is. But that's not what ended up happening. I think we are in an era that is similar to the 1920's and 1930's when they had prohibition. Our country is obsessed with moral values as we were at that time. And this too will pass. I recently read somewhere that a society obsessed with moral values either has no problems at all or is in deep denial about some very serious problems. I'm inlcined to believe the latter. Likewise, a focus on morality has historically proven to be a one way ticket to an economic depression. This is not by virtue of the issue itself, but because it is a distraction from far more pressing issues which go unattended and then blow up in our faces. There is so much greed and self-righteousness in this country, and maybe it really is going to take CEO's in breadlines for people to realize that we have a problem.

At this point in time, the most interesting astrological signature I have heard about is the Mars-Uranus thing in the spring. I would appreciate some info on that event from one of the professionals. Thanks.

Pat C

I couldn't find the Pilger article on South America ??

any hints/links to the exact article?

Thanks

Listening with half an ear yesterday,

one of the stock channels reporting that the dollar had lost ground 7 times in the past month
and that it had lost 40% of its value since the
(now this was what I didn't hear exactly) since the beginning of the year? or the beginning of the
month? - I think it was the month.

Think about this. Since everything we buy, with the exception of food, is manufactured somewhere else - it will now cost almost twice as many dollars to buy a piece of junk at Walmart's which imports almost everything from China....that $5 tank top will no be $10.00, The poorly made blouse or dress in a better store, which never fits correctly and was manufactured in India, China, Pakistan, or Vietnam that they have the nerve to sell for $40 or $50 will now be selling for close to $80 or $100 - and still be poorly made and fitting.

Along the same lines, listening to tonight's stock market talk, brokers such as Schwab will now
allow purchasing and trading in Gold, not as futures,or on the commodities market, but as normal stocks trading - apparently something new
for the markets ? !

Also mentioned was that the market had not expected Gold to go above 400 and today it is above at $451..a 16 year high -

Now what year was it that gold went to $800. As I remember it was after Jackie Kennedy (post Onassis) had moved back to New York and her "companion" was a broker who put her in gold.And that was where she really made her money.

Can anyone give me a hint?

good article on Fallajuh....

http://207.44.245.159/article7389.htm

Wow.

Hardball asking is there any indication that the
US election was stolen.

Michigan Democrat Mark Brewer says we're watching the results.

wow. It's not a dead issue? just a tiny speck of light peeking through - the door is not totally shut.

Interesting....

http://www.astroinsight.com/

I thought this was interesting. Gold report from two weeks ago - and gold has already surpassed the
expectation of that date:

"PRECIOUS METALS REVIEW - 11/19/2004

For the second consecutive week, gold rose to a 17+ year high as weakness in the Dollar continued. Gold closed today at $446.50, a gain of $8.50 for the week. While technical momentum studies continue to show an over-bought condition in the market (as they have for several weeks), the fundamentals of a depreciating dollar and increasing federal deficit could continue to prod gold higher. Resistance is now expected at $450, then $463, and then $470, and support at $441, then $436, and then $427.

Silver traded in a 20 cent range this week with most of the hype in the complex directed at gold. Thursday’s early morning rally took the market to an intra-week high of $7.71 spot before a quick reversal pushed prices back to their weekly low of $7.50. Silver rallied again on Friday, closing the week at $7.60. Silver now views support at $7.48 and resistance at this week’s high of $7.71.

The Platinum Group Metals had an interesting week of trading with a roller coaster of highs and lows. Platinum closed today at $860, $12 lower for the week, with a trading range of $853 to $881. Palladium closed at $221, off $1.50 for the week, with a weekly trading range of $217 to $223.50. In a recent news article, Justin Brown opined that long-term drivers of demand for platinum and palladium over the next 20 to 30 years will be the development of fuel cells, the evolution of environmental legislation which will affect the demand for auto catalysts, jewelry demand, the impact of oil prices on automobile sales, South African exchange rates and the expansion of China's economy.

http://www.monex.com/

Last update: 11/19/2004 at 4:15 PM Pacific Time

Gold hit $850 an ounce in winter of 1979. (My brother-in-law, a retired gold miner, was just discussing this over the weekend!)

Here's a link to site discussing gold prices and historical events connected.........

http://www.the-privateer.com/gold2.html

Thanks KM.

Isn't the wealth and breadth and depth of knowledge on Astroworld a wonderful thing!!!!

It's always good to study history - because it repeats itself. We're at that hairy point again - the Fed has begun to raise interest rates, but the dollar is still falling in a free-fall - to buy gold or not to buy gold - it can change direction in a matter of a month and a half - and if one is not watching daily or hourly,
it's a chance of losing or gaining $500 a pop.

From KM's site:
-SNIP-

"By the end of the 1960s, the U.S. faced the stark choice of eliminating their trade deficits or revaluing the Dollar downwards against Gold to reflect the actual situation. President Nixon decided to do neither. Instead, he repudiated the international obligation of the U.S. to redeem its Dollar in Gold just as President Roosevelt has repudiated the domestic obligation in 1933. On August 15, 1971, Mr Nixon closed the "Gold Window". The last link between Gold and the Dollar was gone. The result was inevitable. In February 1973, the world's currencies "floated". By the end of 1974, Gold had soared from $35 to $195 an ounce.

Gold War II - The IMF/U.S. Treasury Gold Auctions - 1975 to 1979
On January 1, 1975, after 42 years, it again became "legal" for individual Americans to own Gold. Anticipating the demand, the U.S. Treasury in particular and many other Central Banks sold large quantities of Gold, taking large paper profits in the process. This had two results. It depressed the price of Gold, which fell to $US 103 in eighteen months. More important by far, it "burned" large numbers of small individual investors.

But this "pre-emptive strike" against the Gold price did not solve the imbalances inherent in the floating currency regime. As the Gold price began to recover from its August 1976 low, the (US-controlled) IMF along with the Treasury itself, began a series of Gold auctions in an attempt to hold down the price through official means. But the problem of yet another free fall in the international value of the Dollar got in the way. Between January and October of 1978, the Dollar lost fully 25% of its value against a basket of the currencies of its major trading partners. By early 1979, due to this precipitous fall, the demand for Gold was overwhelming the amount that the IMF/Treasury dared supply, and the Gold auctions came to an end.

Gold regained its ($195) December 1974 level by July 1978. It then pressed on to new highs, hitting $250 in February 1979 and $300 in July. Also in July, Paul Volcker was appointed as Fed Chairman by a desperate Jimmy Carter. Gold continued to surge, hitting $400 in October. While this was happening, Mr Volcker was attending a conference in Belgrade. There the assessment was made that the global financial system was on the verge of collapse. When Mr Volcker returned to the U.S. from Belgrade, he took a momentous step. He announced that the Fed was swiching its policy from controlling interest rates to controlling the money supply.

This new Fed policy took some time to have effect. In the meantime, Gold soared from $381 on Nov. 1, 1979 to $850 on Jan. 21, 1980. The public, who had been burned in 1975, were late on the scene. The great burst of public Gold buying came in the four weeks between Christmas 1979 and the Jan 21, 1980 high. As in 1975, they were "burned" again.

The Paper Era Begins
In early 1980, Mr Volcker's new Fed policy began to bite. U.S. interest rates began to skyrocket. As they rose, the Dollar first slowed it's descent, then stopped falling, and then began to rise. Both the public and the investment community which had stampeded into Gold was lured back into paper by this huge rise in interest rates - and by the prospect of a higher U.S. Dollar. The threat of financial meltdown was averted, but at a cost. The U.S. Prime rate hit 20% in April 1980 and stayed there (with a brief dive in mid-1980) until the end of 1981. There was a rush out of Gold and back to Dollars.

Once interest rates began to come down, in early/mid 1982, the choice of where to put the Dollars faced investors once more. The initial solution was just as it had been in the 1970s. The Dow took off - rising from 776 to almost 1100 between mid August 1982 and late January 1983. Gold started earlier and took off even harder - rising from $296 in late June 1982 to $510 at the end of January 1993.

That's where the similarity to the 1970s ended. Gold fell $105 in the last four trading days of February 1983. As it fell, the Dow broke above the 1100 point level for the first time. The long bull market in stocks, and the long stagnation of Gold, had begun.""

Does this mean that Kerry and Edwards have finally reported for duty?

http://www.votecobb.org/press/2004/nov/pr2004-11-30b.php

Yay, Jesse!!!

....food for thought....

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=41679

Dave, thanks. I agree that the Saudis are doing exactly that. They have also entered into an Unholy Alliance with the Jihadists. This alliance was also driven by fear.

At first glance, it may seem irrational, or even self-sabotaging. Why would the Saudis conspire against us, their most respected benefactor and customer?

Easy. The Saudi Royal family is treading on some very thin ice, as we speak. They are living on borrowed time, and they know it.

Unemployment is around 25%, and the Jihadists are a Rogue Force which can ricochet back on them, if they're not careful. The fuse is burning.

The reason why I finally zeroed in on fear as the Driving Factor behind both the US and Saudi Arabia is because of the Fundamentalist Factor. We've been moving in this direction for several decades, and it's very worrisome.

I've spent almost an entire lifetime around alcoholism and its damaging side-effects. I've seen it up close. One not so pleasant by-product of this illness is the issue of control. In my Support Groups, they taught us that the Controller (usually a spouse, often a wife who tries to control the problem drinker) is actually in dire straits herself, but she has taken the focus off herself completely and is focused on the Alcoholic 101%. She is obsessed with getting the drinker to stop drinking. In the meantime, she's become desperate for money, she's started shoplifting and smokes to ease her nerves. She is actually the reverse mirror-image of the alcoholic, she just doesn't know it.

We also learned that a great many people who are in great personal pain gravitate to Fundamentalist churches, and they do not get the help they could be getting in Al-Anon and Therapy. They hope the rigid structure and exclusive elements will give them some stability to their lives.

They told us that millions of people are in Fundamentalist churches who are dysfunctional from alcoholism and its side effects. (I'm trying to link these 2 together with the Repugs).

I suspect these people are also driven by fear, but it's of a different kind.

A group from Boston is asking the Ohio Supreme Court to order a re-vote tomorrow.

Mercury is RX.

Who knows? It could go either way - but if appealed, it would go to the whole Ohio Supreme Court, they are 5 republicans and two democrats.

And Jesse is in there punching - as is Keith Olbermann.

Olbermann on MSNBC deserves our major support - please e mail him. He's not only the one honest
journalist (and he isn't even, he's a sports writer) but a very very brave man.

KOlbermann@msnbc.com

Chiron.

Cliss' post is reminding me of a transit I recently had of Chiron to a sensitive point in my chart.

Not all of us had Leave It To Beaver and June Cleaver childhoods. As a matter of fact America
has to be the King of dysfunctional families carrying on a European tradition toward children.

In any case, although an unpleasant and unhappy (not alcoholic) childhood has long been left behind, when Chiron hit a sensitive point to do with my early homelife, who should appear, but a
person who mimicked all the bullying I suffered as a child.

And so the meaning of Chiron becomes clearer.

I have never accepted the generally accepted definition of Chiron as the wounded healer.

Rather I think Chiron represents "the place of the wound that never heals".

(Fear not, I think I've handled the incident well, advised the person they were a rude crass bully and I was fed up with it, that they needed anger management therapy and that if they didn't get it, they could get out of my life. Not only do I do mean it, but I'm pleased that I am not hurt or confused by their actions and behavior. Gawd, it's good to be a grown-up. :) )

All of this with a planet approaching my natal Mars this last three days.

On the ground in Iraq: "We are Living a Disaster"

http://www.rense.com/general60/disd.htm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A20655-2004Nov29.html

Recount Effort Is Expanded to New Mexico and Nevada

Re: my 2 posts up above: I hope I didn't sound arrogant, as if I know the answers. I'm trying to figure it all out like everyone else. Just forgot the 'humble' element.

Thanks for letting me be a part of such an enlightened group.

Cliss

Cliss,

What these people get from religion is structure, order, comfort, and meaning all of which are utterly missing from modern society.

Pallas18,

If there's ever a time for a "re" anything, it's during a Mercury retrograde. Does anyone know if the Ohio recount is going ahead? I heard that a court had issued an order preventing any recount.

---

You know, these last few weeks have seemed awful quiet. I realize that everyone is still digesting the election results plus the holidays are approaching, but if I didn't know any better, I'd say this was a quiet-before-the-storm kind of moment.

Cliss...appreciated your comments. I agree with the premise that it is fear that motivates the fundamentalists, of any stripe.

For one thing, I walked in fundy "Christian" shoes for some 20 years. There is no denying that I was a fear-based entity, both before and during the experience.

Having since studied psychology, I also am convinced that control is based on fear...supporting your second premise. I'm less familiar with the "controller" / "alcoholic" paradigm, though I know that both the alcoholic and the co-alcoholic participate in an elaborate "dance" of control, made necessary by fear (of a world/life spinning out of control).

Dave,

Re: Ohio recount...look at Keith Olbermann's site, http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6210240/.

And then there's this posted by shylurker upthread...

http://www.votecobb.org/press/2004/nov/pr2004-11-30b.php

Hope this helps...

Hey Pallas18!!!

Re Chiron---my take on it is that it wounds you, but from the wound you learn to heal yourself---that's the only viewpoint on it that's kept me sane!!! lol

And Dave--yep, I agree, it's been WAY TOO quiet around here lately, but I don't think the Merc. retrograde will step up the posting here, at least not in the short term, anyway.

Oh, lest I forget, brilliant article, Isabelle!!!
White light/namaste all and remember: truth is sometimes our only weapon.

peace!!!

Astrologers, please enlighten us. All this stuff is swirling around, including Merc retro--and Kerry's SR is coming up! Hoo-boy!

quiet around here. i've noticed that myself. i went to a church of religious science meeting last sunday. the theme was gratitude and people had no problem thinking of things that generated gratitude for them. it was a useful exercise since, in general, things seem like they're ready to just go straight to hell (in the figurative sense).

i think that there is a general sense in the air that something major is about to happen (i see that where ever people gather to think about the future of the country/planet). many of us were brought up on the notion of the 'happy ending.' i'm afraid that it will take a very unhappy beginning in the form of an even greater provocation than we've seen to start the re-birth cycle. once it's started, i think we're in good shape but "the waiting is the hardest part."

hi shylurker, pallas 18, abeline, pat, pat c., siobaha, sally, wv, cliss, etc. (where's bhakti?)
----------

i heard falwell is out regitering voters for 2006. here is a candid shot of the xtians polishing up their winning strategy:

http://www.vulture-bookz.de/imagebank/Karikaturen/pages/1933-06-15~Gruendung_der_Staatskirche_(Heartfield).html

http://www.cleveland.com/election/plaindealer/index.ssf...

Adds 10000 or so more votes for kerry.

"Officially, the count of provisional ballots stands at 16,750 accepted and 8,552, or 34 percent, rejected. Sen. John Kerry widened his margin over President George W. Bush in the county from 217,638 to 226,880 in the official count of the race that made Ohio a nail-bite"

snip...

"I do believe it's premature to certify the votes today," said Candice Hoke, a Cleveland State University law professor. "It looks as though there were systemic problems, not that they are by design.

Hey Mike:

You're A Religious Science/Science of Mind practitioner.

I knew the tenor of this site was very special!

It took me a year to get the point...it was so simple I couldn't get it. "What you think is what you get"....a life changing philosophy -

On the other hand, the minister I studied with was a realist. His saying was "Treat and then move your feet", meaning put the thought out there in the ether, but don't just sit around waiting - slightly different than the philosophy of waiting for God to answer all prayers.

Speaking of "moving your feet" - this is a site recommended by Tam Tarrikar of Mountain Astrologer -

http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/IntroductoryPages.pdf

Sharon...the link to article doesn't work. Got the title or date?

Pallas...listening in on your discussion w/Mike about "getting what you think"...yep! Put it out there then start moving those feet.

Also noted with appreciation your comment on Chiron. The thought occured to me that some healing of your "Chiron" wound has taken place else you couldn't have handled this last go round as you did. Leads me, not an astrologer, to think that Garry has it about right. Chiron wounds you and you heal the wound - [or not(?) in which case it WOULD be a would that never heals?]

Pallas18, a soul sister: I first went to a CRS in 1969 in a rural part of CA. Old wooden church and about 100 farmers plus moi and two slacker friends. The minister said put some personal object in the tray as it was passed around. I put in a ring and when he held it up, he told me things I'd never told anyone and then gave me some very good advice. He was quite involved and concerned about me. Several weeks ago, I thought, it's time, so I looked up the CRS and went to a service. Well, they don't do psychic readings anymore (nobody could match those farmers, kind of like a loving version of the HBO series "Caravan"). The service is great in other ways and it fits into a lot of stuff I really like, e.g., Emmet Fox. I see AW as an electronic CRS. Cool!

I meant to add, the above site plus the one below do not present a rosy picture of the immediate future, or the future future either. In fact it sounds like we really shouldn't be bothering with worry over the elections of 2006-2008.

http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/

-snip- (but read the whole thing )

"On the international front, the financial dislocations wrought by the coming oil shocks will plunge the world into a series of resource wars and "currency insurgencies" unlike anything we can imagine. The international destabilization and devaluing of the US dollar will further exacerbate the economic collapse at home.

As the US economy begins to rapidly deteoriate, massive civil unrest may break out as the various factions of the divided American citizenry seek to blame the economic situation on whoever their favorite scapegoat is. Liberals and blue-staters will blame "Bush, Big-Oil and the Neocons" while conservatives and red-staters will blame "Bin-Laden, Big-Government, and the Extreme Left."

"How Does the US Government Plan to Deal With This?"

Before you get too worried, rest assured that the US government has been aware of Peak Oil since at least 1977 and has been actively planning for this crisis for over 30 years. Three decades of careful, plotting analysis has yielded the following 2-step plan:

Step 1: Go to war to get oil;

Step 2: Kill whoever gets in the way;

The reason our leaders have told us the war on terror "will last 50 years" and will be "the war that may not end in our lifetimes" is simple: most of the nations accussed of harboring terrorists - Iraq, Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, West Africa - also happen to harbor large oil reserves. Within 50 years, however, even those nations will have seen their oil reserves almost entirely depleted.

The US government doesn't feel going to war will actually prevent the collapse of industrial civilization. They know as well as the various independent experts cited in this article that the collapse is inevitable. Invading oil rich areas while destroying its economic rivals, however, may ensure that the US continues to sit a top of the world's geopolitical pyramid - even if that pyramid is comprised of nothing more than the leftovers of the 20th century.

What Can I do to Prepare?

Two things:

Number 1: Convince your friends and family this really is happening;

Number 2: Get ready to fend for yourselves.

Good luck,
Matt Savinar
11/20/2004

Prepare/Get Ready

11/18/2004: This Page Will Be Under Construction for the Next Few Weeks

I. Food/Crops/Gardening/Permaculture

Composting: The First Step to Overcoming Peak Oil
Because a rind is a terrible thing to waste.

Pedal Powered Produce

A group in Northern California has found a way to minimize their dependence on fossil-fuel powered agriculture.

II. Medicine

III. Water

IV. Finances/Currency/Economics

V. Housing/Shelter

VI. Energy Production

VII. Transportation

The Cuban Bike Revolution

V. Miscellaneous Issues Related to Post-Oil

Living

How to Tell a Family Member About Peak Oil

Civilization as we know it is coming to end soon. How do you tell somebody that without sounding crazy?

Pallas18, you didn't get the memo! the mother ship is on the way to earth to 'rapture' * and co. they're pissed because we're headed for the center of the milky way. then they'll give us that pill that turns water to gas (twilight zone episode) which the oil companies have been hiding and we'll all live happily ever after. i do think that peak oil is important as a paradigm but it's only 1/2 right. they are too, way too down on the prospect for alternatives. how about hemp? (seriously) or some new, clean process. gonna happen, why, because this is just one big episode of the 'donna reed show.' in the mean time vacuum the top of those books.

We ARE a community - so what skills can we trade/barter for the coming whatever - Sounds like the communes of the 60's were rehearsal.

Yes Garry and KM, I think that's it - you heal yourself - but just like a broken bone, or a bruise to the bone...the spot becomes sensitive, and another bump awakens the wound - again the wound that never heals completely. The wound is closed, the sensitivity, maybe the cell memory is not. In any case, I'm pleased with myself for recognizing where my reaction was coming from and
got my chart up to confirm my suspicion.

Astrology and Science of Mind (where my metaphysics came from) and healing and the spiritual and the psychic arts all came at me the same year in 1973 - and of course it became a lifetime study - a way of life.

And perhaps we are all here for a reason.

Long ago it was predicted there would come a time when communication would have to be psychic communication.

After reading the above sites, which are the major reason Tem Tarriktar has been writing dire astrology for the past year or two, it would seem to be a good idea to begin practicing.

It would also seem to be a good idea to look for a country where there is no oil and less chance of invasion (google: "countries without oil")-less chance of being in the middle of the wars, but where a simple life and farming in good soil is a good possibility - and if there are going to be shortages of water - one where there is plenty of rainfall to catch in barrels.

As the article says, America's whole infrastructure is bound to oil, Europe and other countries are much less dependent.

(This scenario sucks.)

Cute, Mike, cute.

Very sneaky. Didn't even feel you in the office.
The books come with me. :)

On Chiron.

Aha.

Michael Lutin agrees with us!

"PICKING THE SCAB"

A deeper look at the wounds that won't heal

Although geeky sticklers for detail insist that Chiron is a comet, it hardly matters at this point. Depending on where it has struck in both your solar and actual house chart, you will definitely still feel its walloping psychological or emotional impact on your life for a long time to come.

The good news: It will help you grow up, big time.

Well in some cases that's not SUCH good news."

Pallas18 - Your comment about our needing to practice is interesting. I told my family (those who I can speak to about this) that we need to learn how to communicate psychically because of the coming disruption in land communication. I have seriously started practicing "calling" my sister in Northern California. She's also practicing...the idea is to get adept at detecting communications.

Last time I tried, my "call" apparently included the message I intended to deliver by telephone. Perhaps we should all be trying to practice with each other as well?

Mike...you've heard of bio-diesel? My daughter belongs to a coop, bought an old Mercedes and runs it on fuel made from vegetable oil (I don't know much about the process, but am planning to learn).

Past my bedtime...'night all!

One more thing. Chiron healing...I get that. I guess I'm just hoping that the work I've done to heal my Chiron wound has worked. I don't want to keep doing this over and over again! (Please tell me I won't have to keep doing this over and over again.........)

I recognize that the "bump" that occurs each time that spot is visited brings it all back to mind (and to some extent body), but I hope that the healing that's been accomplished doesn't just get undone, right?

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