I've got my popcorn popped and the butter in the saucepan ready to melt. If you're right, Nancy (and I've every reason to believe you are), the Implosion of the Bush Regime might be the Best Show yet! Who needs cable news when we have Chimpy squirming, pouting, posturing and trying his best to be a Dictator?!?!?!? :-)

Very nice article, by the way.

funny that Nancy would write this right now. I've just come from DU, where they are formulating the
same "unexpected rebellion from the people"..

8. think this out:

any angry procession will bring out the troops to fire on us.

a peaceful procession might do the same.

would people going to DC 2 x2 , not in buses, but just to visit the sites, and happen to stop and stand in front of the WH silently - until there are 5 million people there, wearing black armbands bring out the troops?

could be.

we are dealing with a nutcase in the WH.

And that is a danger to the country and to our life and limb.

Think it out....

I too would like to see eveyone standing there silently , like they did to Milosevic, until he capitulated...

what can be done without bringing out troops to shoot on us?

Maybe not going to work - but it would have to be everybody not going to work...

bringing the country to a stand still - no buying for a week, no food , no gas, no buying of anything and standing in front of the white house quietly?????

ideas of this type?????


DuaneBidoux (642 posts) Sat Nov-06-04 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #8

9. I've said before: National Strike

Someone responded that there would be too many people lining up to take jobs. But that's not what a National Strike is. A National Strike is when you don't buy, go to work, everybody in every major city would block freeways. One team on every major freeway the first day, then another team, the next day (assuming the first get arrested), etc.

You bring the country to a stop.

I love the black armband idea Pallas, in fact I love both ideas but it would take at least 6 months to get it all organized. MoveOn.org could do it with their data base, however I cannot think of anything, even the black arm band idea that GW wouldn't bring out the troops. He has a mandate to do whatever he wants, he told us so at his press conference the other day. There have been some sporadic demonstrations in California and Ohio, don't know about Florida or anyplace else except other countries.

I don't know that the Uranus transit will bring a demonstration so much as some kind of expose and then a wave of angry public opinion. Uranus rules the US 3rd house and the square from transiting Uranus might unleash the press..

Spot on, Nancy (and everyone)!

Great article!

nancy--

Osama bin Laden has warned America before every one of his attacks--the american people who hold security in their own hands chose bush--a mistake--When bush levels falluja as he couldn't do before the election be ready for another al quaeda attack somewhere in the u.s.--remeberlife is 99 rounds--

Nancy, dead on about ** empty victory. What has he cheated, oops, I meant won, really? He has won his mess that he has to clean up. He's also got the debt he incurred coming due in 2005-6. We'll see how jobless and hungry christians act.

Astroworlders, let's channel our anger and feeling of violation into being active activists.

I am with you Janet, you are right on in your advice.

Many thanks for the article, Nancy.

I don't think huge marches mean anything to Smirky&Co. Millions of people marched all over the planet and Smirky&Co still marched off to war. Earlier the huge march in Washington in support of women. The marches in NYC. They pay no attention to marches. And the additional problem now is they used so much of the "Homeland Security" funds to arm the local police and sheriffs with crowd control horrors (rather than securing vulnerable places), that I don't think they're worried in the least that we might march and even get carried away and get out of hand (whether instigated by provocateurs or not). They'll just shoot us down with cayenne-loaded bullets (that are "usually" not lethal), pepper gas the living daylights out of us, round us up in pens and fling us into short-term (I hope) gitmo-lite places, turn those lovely super-noise and microwave crowd control devices on us and on and on. I don't think our being assembled in huge numbers matters any more. General Strike could be effective, I believe, peaceable blocking of traffic. We'd just have to make absolutely sure our people are thoroughly imbued with nonviolent techniques and take no chances to get the heavily armed officials riled up. 'Course now that he has determined he has a mandate, Smirky just might order them to let loose on us no matter how peacefully and orderly freeways and roadways are occupied.

Iraqui Sunnis make peace offer...

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/printer_110704B.shtml

Pallas 18 and Shylurker,

Omigod. Sorry to confuse the living daylights out of everyone. February 9th, 1981. 7:45 am is what's on my birth certificate. Dallas, Texas. Yeeeehah. Post whatever you can in this forum.

Why does it seem like the universe is trying to thwart all this?

---

Anyway, the real reason I came to post (in addition to checking to see if Pallas or Shylurker had responed) was to ask someone to do the chart of Roe v. Wade. If anything sparks a civil war in this country, that would be it.

I just logged on and I was so pleased to see two articles posted from Sally and Nancy.

I have a couple of questions. Do you think we will ever know the real reason Kerry backed down so quickly? Once Saturn moves into Leo, will the "fear factor" move off center stage and lead to more people speaking up against this totalitarian govt?

Thanks Sally and Shylurker,

Hope you don;t mind but I'm going to transpose your wise posts over to that thread in DU...some
of them are getting real nutsy - talking about throwing eggs, screaming....they have to be very young and not realize the consequences...and the hairtrigger response such actions could bring.

BTW, Costa Rica has 100 volcanoes and 5 of them are active...every 6 months slight earthquakes..
but great weather. Starbucks and Intel have moved manufacturing there, which I find interesting...trying to find a place where I can keep Jupiter on my MC....not easy...Cuba? heh heh

I very much doubt if we will know the real reason Kerry backed down Teresa. I read an article today saying that there are three Democrat Senators thinking of leaving the Senate to run for Gov. of their state, feeling they can do more good that way than the Senate, the Dems feel absolutely powerless right now and they are. I figure they will be told to sit down and shut up and they will do just that because they have no more choices.

Sally - you said earlier "Sometimes I think we've just been watching a play between the Republicans and Democrats and Kerry, the frat brother of Bush, decided to play the foil."

I've been wondering the same thing. Two Yale, Scull and Bones boys ....

You all may find this of interest. Tem Tarriktar writing on the The Neptune-Pluto Cycle and the Next Seven Years from the current issue of TMA

http://www.mountainastrologer.com/planettracks/tracks.html

snip--
Chart 3: November 21, 2004

In this chart, the Moon, Mercury, and Venus join Neptune and Pluto in a septile pattern just as the Sun enters Sagittarius. Saturn, Uranus, and Pluto are still in a tight quintile pattern; this means that, although intense events and collective challenges are unfolding at this time, creative and long-lasting solutions are available if people can find the courage to confront inflexible attitudes. Significant relationships are subject to change as well, as Venus and Mars move through a volatile zone of the zodiac. (4) Trickster Mercury may pry secrets from Pluto in outspoken Sagittarius, so watch for important leaks to the press.

Chart 4: January 28, 2005

This chart could have a sharp bite, so we need to be alert. This time, Mars, the Moon, Vesta, and Lilith (Black Moon) join Neptune and Pluto's septile pattern. The Mars-Pluto conjunction is quincunx Saturn (and sextile Juno, to complete a yod); therefore, issues of overpowering force and restraint come to the fore. Explosions are possible, and extreme rage due to frustration is also a danger. Saturn opposes the conjunction of Venus, Mercury, and Chiron. There may be loss of property or a need to think differently about something because of upsetting information. Figurative or literal earthquakes are in the news. Jupiter is approaching its first square to Saturn since the May 2000 conjunction of the two giant planets. Perhaps the economy is also reacting to the U.S. president's new programs.

Chart 5: March 20, 2005: Aries Equinox

This chart is an indicator of the year ahead, especially the period through June 20. The very tight Moon-Mars opposition (with both squaring Vesta) shows volatility and perhaps a threat to our sense of security, as well as an abundance of activism. There may be massive demonstrations and much visible dissent around this time. For Washington, D.C., this opposition lands in angular houses; Saturn is on the IC, and the Sun and chart-ruler Venus are in the 12th! You could make a strong case for extreme political gridlock, with anger and hostility on both sides. With Mercury retrograde in Aries also in the 12th opposite Jupiter, lots of America's resources are still tied up overseas or in military projects. Saturn also opposes the Neptune/Pluto midpoint. The coming months have the potential for wars over the resources deemed vital for survival - and even the reinstatement of a military draft. Fast-moving water, due to storms and flooding, may feature prominently in the news.

Thanks Sally and Nancy, great articles. I posted the above from Tem because if you look at Nancy's last paragraph and then read his chart for the vernal equinox, well, you can't help but get the picture.

Some encouraging news at the Kos as well. http://www.dailykos.com/

Dems win at AAA level
by kos
Sat Nov 6th, 2004 at 11:02:47 PST

For those of you who are baseball ignorant, AAA is the professional baseball league one step down from the Major Leagues. It's where all major league baseball players finish their development before they hit the Big Show.
We lost narrowly in the majors last Tuesday, but at the AAA, we actually gained seats. from John Fund in the subscription-only Wall Street Journal:

The general GOP euphoria over Tuesday's election results should not obscure the fact that the election was close and that Republican victories become scarcer as you go further down the ballot. Republicans did win governorships in Indiana and Missouri and are tied in Washington State. But they lost the New Hampshire and Montana governorships and wound up losing seats in state legislatures overall.
Of the country's 99 state legislative chambers, the GOP lost control of six and won only four from the Democrats. Republicans have apparently gone from having complete control of both chambers in 21 states to only dominating 17 states. Most of the GOP pickups involve the slow dissolution of Democratic dominance in the South. In Georgia, Tennessee and Oklahoma the Republicans will now control the state House for the first time in decades, or in the case of Georgia since Sherman's march to the sea in 1864.

But Republicans also lost ground in some traditional strongholds. Democrats now control both houses of the Colorado legislature for the first time since the 1950s. They also failed to win any seats at all in California, despite the campaigning and fundraising prowess of Arnold Schwarzenegger. In Hawaii, that state's popular GOP governor, Linda Lingle, saw the voters ignore her appeals for a more cooperative legislature as unions picked off several Republican incumbents. Even in the South, Democrats made some gains, winning back complete control of North Carolina's state House.

Dave, I hope you will try Astrodienst (it's on the right-hand sidebar immediately under the heading "Astro Information"). I can't remember now the steps I had to go through to register with Astrodienst initially, but I don't think there were many. And it's free!

I just went over there to my account and entered your birth data on the little window that requests same. I then clicked "Continue". It advises, "Pease select your free horoscope" and presents a list. About 13th on the list is "Extended Chart Selection." Check that one. The window that appears will have the default, "Natal Chart Wheel" ready to go. Just click, indicating that's ok. (There are all kinds of settings there that the pros here understand, but I think the "Natal Chart Wheel" will work just fine until Pallas responds.)

Once I did all of that, your chart popped up. Now, if Astrodienst calculated correctly and if I entered your data correctly (and I did double-check myself), it appears you have Sagittarius on the midheaven. It looks to me like it is 11 degrees Sag. Once Pallas has done your chart, and if she agrees it is 11 Sag, I'd recommend you go to Astrodienst and get your chart. You can print it right out, save it to your C drive, etc.

Hope this helps.

Shade, thanks for the Mountain Astrologer information, if Tem wrote it, he's a good astrologer. I cannot but help feel as Neptune moves away from the US and Bush Sun in mid December all of us start coming down with a jolt. Neptune transits once they are past can be brutal as the fog lifts and you see the rats beneath your feet and in your life. That pretty dripping sound wasn't a waterfall, the basement was flooding. And Jupiter conjunct Neptune (Kerry and GWB's charts) indicates the "bubble that burst."
So I can see the anger in the US that's been underwraps start to explode. If in truth Kerry won then George hardly has a mandate or anything like a mandate. Sometimes when your focus is on winning you don't stop to think what you've won.

Not that I would want this to happen but I wonder how it would be received if the Dems just left the House and Senate and explained to their constituents and the rest of America why they left. I wonder what would happen if they didn't play the game, did not go on any talking head shows, did not participate at all (except at a State level) in the little game being played by the Republicans. I wonder what the people would do when they had to look at all the problems in this country as Republican problems because there weren't any Democrats. Maybe the Democrats could say something like, "you wanted a fascist government, you think that's in your best interest, so here it is folks." Maybe we could all go to California or the East and secede from the Union and let the Red States take it all. Just a nasty Scorpio little thought.

I just keep thinking about people like my sister, who is Cap sun, Pisces moon and asc in Virgo who voted for the little twerp. Normally, she is a very good judge of people. She is positive that by voting for Bush she is protecting her sons and daughter. I wonder how she will react when the draft is reinstated and they are among the first to be called up. They won't be able to buy their way out like Jenna and Barbara.

Another question, probably unanswerable. The Soviet Union disintegrated when Pluto crossed its asc. That area is still chaotic. What kind of a country will we be when we rise out of the ashes after Pluto is through with us?

Sorry to post so many times in a row but I wanted to share an e-mail that I got just a few minutes ago. Feel free to use the link to respond.

Dear Teresa,

I want to thank you for everything you've done over the course of this campaign. Time and time again we asked for your help, and you were always there for us.

Even though we didn't win back the White House, you created something historic. Our grassroots campaign of hope and optimism was unprecedented in American politics. More than 1 million volunteers made 11 million person-to-person, door-to-door contacts, and made 38 million phone calls to voter in battleground states.

If you were involved in these grassroots activities, we want to hear from you about your experience. What did you do? Did you feel the action you took was effective? Was it a good experience for you? How would you make it better?

Tell us your thoughts.

http://www.democrats.org/feedback/

We plan to use your feedback to help develop our strategy in 2005. As always, you will continue to play a critical role in the future of the Democratic Party. What we created together will be the backbone for Democratic victories in the future.

You and I know that this fight is not over. We will never waver when it comes to defending our values and fighting for what we know is right.

Again, thank you for helping create something special.

Sincerely,

Terry McAuliffe
Chairman

I responded by saying make Bill Clinton Chairman of the DNC.

Buy Blue

I live in a "Blue" state. From here on I will support my state and other blue states and no others. I will buy first locally in my town, preferably grown or made in my town. If not available in my town, then in my state and then if not available in another Blue state. But if it is only available in a Red State, I will do without.

If you look at the map of Blue States you will see that most of the major cities, big finance, banking and other thriving business are in those states. In the Red States their businesses and industries are not doing well and many of the others are being proped up with subsidies and "grants" and other gifts from the US Government.

I think the next three years are going to be very difficult and that the colossal national debt will "trickle down" to me and thee. I think I can stave that off if I BUY BLUE.

I also suggest that anyone who voted for Kerry should pay their taxes, but not until April 15. If half the money (or maybe more since lots of us live in Blue states) isn't coming in it may at least give the suggestion that we can control a huge chunk of the purse strings if we have to.

And on another subject. The is a fabulous song called Stand. It is full of strength and written just for such an occasion as we have experienced. I think that on the 2nd day of every month until the next election we should have a 15 minuted "Stand" in every town across America where those who wish to make a visible protest can unite at a park or on a safe street and simply stand and hold each others hands and listen to the words to that song.

I think we should all wear buttons that say "Don't Blame Me, I Voted for Kerry"

Thanks, Sally & Nancy, for these two good articles (which I read too fast but will re-read). I posted something interesting (at least I think it is) at the bottom of Isabelle's article and am not sure it was seen by many, so here it is again :-)

I know someone who is a gifted intuitive. I asked her (1) if Bush won fairly, and (2) why the Universe let him win.

This is what she said:
1) The election was tainted but now so much by deliberate fraud as by the Republicans "buying" votes (my example is Bush telling right wing Christians & family values people he'd support the protection of marriage amendment if they got out the vote in the churches). What she might be seeing is that these "irregularities" were there but they are not what necessarily won Bush the election.

2) Why did Bush win? The country needs to be educated as to what is important and how to see the difference between pure manipulation and real issues. I know the Kerry-Edwards-Moore did their share of manipulation but it was petty stuff. Bush is the one who made his record look good when there is nothing good about it.

The second term would bring things much worse than the first. Serious economic problems even collapse. The economic problems would affect the very rich and the corporations as well as the very poor, more so than the "middle class" who have roofs over their heads.

And, the egg will finally crack open very dramatically and all the corruption and deals will come out, especially about the war. She felt there was a strong possibility Bush & Cheney would be removed and a new election called. The other possibilty will be that Bush is removed due to poor health or even death. (I hope this doesn't preclude the truth surfacing.)

This is what is needed for people to see reality. There is corruption and there is a false economy. If Kerry won, it would continue to be covered up and Kerry could be blamed for the country's problems.

She verified that Euros would be good if the U.S. economy fails. Gold & silver are always stable.

Finally, she said she felt that Edwards could have won and has a good chance of winning next time.

One more thing, she was told that our Mission was to educate people, that the education must not stop. I think it's tricky as many people don't want to be educated so I guess psychology must be used, gentleness, as well as knowing when to be quiet or walk away. They may want to force their "values" but we all know that doesn't work.

Nothing could make me happier than seeing Bush & Cheney removed from office in disgrace, except for world peace and a solution for hunger, disease and suffering.

Sally - You may call it "just a nasty Scorpio little thought" but I like it and think it has merit. If they want it so badly that will lie, cheat and steal, let them have it. It won't nearly be as much fun for them because they'll have no one to lord their dictates over and their pockets won't be nearly as full because most of their money comes from ....red states?...why no...the blue ones!

I hope this idea gets out there...a revolution where no one showed up would be unique in history.

Speaking of intuitives:

So many of us saw Kerry with his right arm raised -- and we assumed this was his taking oath of office.

Funny thing - when the election returns were played the late night and early am of Nov 2 and 3
each time they showed a state, they had 2 little square boxes - one with dimson in it..making some kind of grimace monkey face, and the other box with Kerry, smiling and raising his right arm and
hand.......

psychics never get the full picture --- they always see flashes or parts... so I assume we intuitives all mistook the election result picture
of Kerry as the real thing.

"Buy Blue" and Sally - take our marbles and go home - great ideas.

Thanks for this Nancy. Pallas 18 mentioned people just showing up and standing outside the White House wearing black arm bands. I have had that vision for several years. It just may happen.

I love the astrology, but the minds that express the thoughts and history in these articles is what sets this apart from anything I have seen previously. I am really greatful. :-)

I meant to say that these articles are set apart from anything I have seen elsewhere period. Astrowrld is truly the best.

I'm a little foggy with the flu. I've been sleeping most of the day.

http://www.unionlabel.org/boycott.asp

http://www.responsibleshopper.org/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BoycottReds/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BoycottReds/

Palm Beach County Logs 88,000 More Votes Than Voters
November 5, 2004 04:56 PM

According to the official election results posted on the Palm Beach County election website, 542,835 ballots were cast for a presidential candidate while only 454,427 voters turned out for the election (including absentee). This leaves a discrepancy of 88,408 votes cast for the presidential candidates.

Palm Beach County's supervisor of elections is Theresa LePore who is known for the 2000 Presidential Election and the notorious "butterfly ballot" that caused confusion among seniors and other Floridians.

Other election oddities occurred throughout Florida with some counties registering a 400% increase in expected voter turnout among Republicans while Democrats supposedly experienced a -60% decline in expected support within certain counties. The 50+ counties experiencing the high percentage fluctuations in expected turnout used optical scan voting machines on November 2nd.

Vote discrepancies were also found in Gahanna, Ohio which gave an extra 4,000 votes to President Bush. The error was explained away by Franklin County administrators as a "glitch" in the electronic voting system.

Update: Palm Beach County has updated their numbers and added 91,802 absentee ballots and 1,041 provisional ballots. The vote totals for president increased by 1,543. To view an archived copy of the previous report, click here. While Palm Beach County appears to have accounted for the discrepancy, this underscores the flaws in the system and data compilation.

http://www.unionlabel.org/boycott.asp

http://www.responsibleshopper.org/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BoycottReds/

Palm Beach County Logs 88,000 More Votes Than Voters
November 5, 2004 04:56 PM

According to the official election results posted on the Palm Beach County election website, 542,835 ballots were cast for a presidential candidate while only 454,427 voters turned out for the election (including absentee). This leaves a discrepancy of 88,408 votes cast for the presidential candidates.

Palm Beach County's supervisor of elections is Theresa LePore who is known for the 2000 Presidential Election and the notorious "butterfly ballot" that caused confusion among seniors and other Floridians.

Other election oddities occurred throughout Florida with some counties registering a 400% increase in expected voter turnout among Republicans while Democrats supposedly experienced a -60% decline in expected support within certain counties. The 50+ counties experiencing the high percentage fluctuations in expected turnout used optical scan voting machines on November 2nd.

Vote discrepancies were also found in Gahanna, Ohio which gave an extra 4,000 votes to President Bush. The error was explained away by Franklin County administrators as a "glitch" in the electronic voting system.

Update: Palm Beach County has updated their numbers and added 91,802 absentee ballots and 1,041 provisional ballots. The vote totals for president increased by 1,543. To view an archived copy of the previous report, click here. While Palm Beach County appears to have accounted for the discrepancy, this underscores the flaws in the system and data compilation.

*************************************************
Blue States Versus Red States

is the Same Strategy as

the Old Republican (Nixon) Southern Strategy

of turning Whites Against Blacks

in Order to Obscure the Economic and Foreign

Policy Issues

**************************************************

I was born in a Blue state (CA), lived in 3 Blue states previously (NY, MD, DC), and now live in a Red State, Virginia

We're being suckered again by "the man."

First of all 72% of Americans did not vote for Bush. That's a pretty good start. The portion of the 72% which simpliy did not vote at all may have a point. Do we really think our votes count.

Second, Bush did not win the election, in all liklihood. It was rigged. The Blue versus Red distinction vanishes in that scenario.

Third, it's not practical to separate the country right now, nor is it desirable when we have the 1/2 of those who voted siding with Democrats plus the remaining 50% who did vote at all as propsects .

How do we do things to win in 2006. Let Bush be Bush. He's already started looking strange (anyone see his press conference). Have as our universal battle cry, PAPAR BALLOTS IN 2006. And make our folks in congress fight every, every, every single thing Bush puts forward.

Great article Nancy.

WhaddaHOOT!! bushieholic is doing three simultaneous assaults at least... Afghanistan, Iraq & the US. (There're most likely other more secret ones.) It doesn't have enuf resources to cover them all, I guarantee you, even if it took every last one of our pennies & National Guard this very moment. We, & a majority of Americans, are the "insurgents," while bushieholic & its lil band of neocondruggies is the occupying force. Even OUR "White" House looks like the barricaded barbed-wire "Green Zone" in Iraq. Jeepers! ...what a spot in which the lil deformed chimp flops n' flaps. At this rate, it'll be falling off dozens of trikes daily! mmmMMMmmm! It's all very funny in a macabre way. ;O)

Teresa, I am not sure about the Soviet Union's asc, but I do remember it's Sun in Scorpio Pluto transit and it's subsequent demise. The USA had its Pluto transit to its Sun back in the mid 1920's. To take a quick travel in time and how familiar the territory looks, read http://www.winterboy.com/dejavu3.html

The Hearst newspaper empire, the American Legion and the Ku Klux Klan lead the charge for the 'Americanization' of schoolbooks, loyalty oaths for teachers and harsher immigration legislation. These three organizations become deeply tied to fascist groups in the following decade. Several members of the American Legion are involved in a fascist plot against FDR. The Hearst papers become an open propaganda outlet for the Nazis and fascism. The Klan goes on to later form an alliance with the German-American Bund.

Another interesting time period is 1972 when the USA progressed Sun was conjuncting its own Pluto.

Saddam Hussein nationalizes the Iraqi Petroleum Company. Foreign oil companies are expelled.

The Nixon CIA embarks on a campaign to destabilize the Iraqi government. The US first arms and encourages the Kurds to rebel against the Baath Party, then backs out of the conflict and abandons the Kurds. Tens of thousands of Kurdish lives are lost.

The Nixon Administration reverses its election-year promise to de-escalate America’s role in Vietnam. US Ambassador George H.W Bush, Nixon’s mouthpiece at the UN, consistently demonizes the North Vietnamese, using phrases such as "evil empire, haters of freedom," etc, and announces the mining of North Vietnamese harbors. Carpet bombing (the use of huge numbers of unguided gravity bombs to ensure total destruction of a target area) of the North increases, as do illegal US military actions and CIA activities- such as secret bombings of alleged Viet Cong bases in Cambodia and Laos.

http://www.winterboy.com/dejavu11.html

We have all been here before.............

Raj,

It was a dodgy pitch! Michael Clarke 6/9! 40 wickets in 2 days!

That's just not cricket!

Anyway, I'm not going to let that spoil our first series win in India since '69! (I hope you anihilate the 'Boks though.)

***********************************************

Something I picked up from dailyKos:

How could this happen?
On the CNBC TV show "Topic A With Tina Brown," several months ago, Howard Dean had filled in for Tina Brown as guest host. His guest was Bev Harris, the Seattle grandmother who started www.blackboxvoting.org from her living room. Bev pointed out that regardless of how votes were tabulated (other than hand counts, only done in odd places like small towns in Vermont), the real "counting" is done by computers. Be they Diebold Opti-Scan machines, which read paper ballots filled in by pencil or ink in the voter's hand, or the scanners that read punch cards, or the machines that simply record a touch of the screen, in all cases the final tally is sent to a "central tabulator" machine.

That central tabulator computer is a Windows-based PC.
"In a voting system," Harris explained to Dean on national television, "you have all the different voting machines at all the different polling places, sometimes, as in a county like mine, there's a thousand polling places in a single county. All those machines feed into the one machine so it can add up all the votes. So, of course, if you were going to do something you shouldn't to a voting machine, would it be more convenient to do it to each of the 4000 machines, or just come in here and deal with all of them at once?"

Dean nodded in rhetorical agreement, and Harris continued. "What surprises people is that the central tabulator is just a PC, like what you and I use. It's just a regular computer."
"So," Dean said, "anybody who can hack into a PC can hack into a central tabulator?"
Harris nodded affirmation, and pointed out how Diebold uses a program called GEMS, which fills the screen of the PC and effectively turns it into the central tabulator system.

"This is the official program that the County Supervisor sees," she said, pointing to a PC that was sitting between them loaded with Diebold's software.
Bev then had Dean open the GEMS program to see the results of a test election. They went to the screen titled "Election Summary Report" and waited a moment while the PC "adds up all the votes from all the various precincts," and then saw that in this faux election Howard Dean had 1000 votes, Lex Luthor had 500, and Tiger Woods had none. Dean was winning.

"Of course, you can't tamper with this software," Harris noted. Diebold wrote a pretty good program.
But, it's running on a Windows PC.
So Harris had Dean close the Diebold GEMS software, go back to the normal Windows PC desktop, click on the "My Computer" icon, choose "Local Disk C:," open the folder titled GEMS, and open the sub-folder "LocalDB" which, Harris noted, "stands for local database, that's where they keep the votes." Harris then had Dean double-click on a file in that folder titled "Central Tabulator Votes," which caused the PC to open the vote count in a database program like Excel.

In the "Sum of the Candidates" row of numbers, she found that in one precinct Dean had received 800 votes and Lex Luthor had gotten 400.
"Let's just flip those," Harris said, as Dean cut and pasted the numbers from one cell into the other. "And," she added magnanimously, "let's give 100 votes to Tiger."
They closed the database, went back into the official GEMS software "the legitimate way, you're the county supervisor and you're checking on the progress of your election."
As the screen displayed the official voter tabulation, Harris said, "And you can see now that Howard Dean has only 500 votes, Lex Luthor has 900, and Tiger Woods has 100." Dean, the winner, was now the loser.
Harris sat up a bit straighter, smiled, and said, "We just edited an election, and it took us 90 seconds."

On live national television. (You can see the clip on www.votergate.tv.)
Which brings us back to Morris and those pesky exit polls that had Karen Hughes telling George W. Bush that he'd lost the election in a landslide.
Morris's conspiracy theory is that the exit polls "were sabotage" to cause people in the western states to not bother voting for Bush, since the networks would call the election based on the exit polls for Kerry. But the networks didn't do that, and had never intended to. It makes far more sense that the exit polls were right - they weren't done on Diebold PCs - and that the vote itself was hacked.

And not only for the presidential candidate - Jeff Fisher thinks this hit him and pretty much every other Democratic candidate for national office in the most-hacked swing states.
So far, the only national "mainstream" media to come close to this story was Keith Olbermann on his show Friday night, November 5th, when he noted that it was curious that all the voting machine irregularities so far uncovered seem to favor Bush. In the meantime, the Washington Post and other media are now going through single-bullet-theory-like contortions to explain how the exit polls had failed.
But I agree with Fox's Dick Morris on this one, at least in large part. Wrapping up his story for The Hill, Morris wrote in his final paragraph, "This was no mere mistake. Exit polls cannot be as wrong across the board as they were on election night. I suspect foul play."

Thom Hartmann (thom at thomhartmann.com) is a Project Censored Award-winning best-selling author and host of a nationally syndicated daily progressive talk show. www.thomhartmann .com His most recent books are "The Last Hours of Ancient Sunlight," "Unequal Protection: The Rise of Corporate Dominance and the Theft of Human Rights," "We The People: A Call To Take Back America," and "What Would Jefferson Do?: A Return To Democracy."

*************************************************

Solution:

1) Paper trail, paper trail, paper trail!
NO machines - just a pen/paper. Easy and cheap!

2) Preferential voting system - all votes count. You can vote for the Greens, Socialists, Nader or whoever represents your views most accurately and still give your preference to a democrat.

3) To become President you would require a majority of both the Electoral College and the popular vote. IF not achieved, the candidate with the popular vote becomes president and the candidate with the Electoral College becomes V-P.
(There's a similar rule for Referenda in Australia - majority of states + majority of votes)

************************************************

I think Sally is right with her Scorpionic solution - withdraw funds, play hard & throw mud.
If you punch GWB on the nose he will cry - the child needs to learn that some types of behaviour are just not acceptable, like murdering innocents for oil profits & stealing elections.

Right, I'm just going to get my lightsabre. I need to practise for my confrontation with Darth, er, Dick.

Hurrah for Bush's win

Richard Ingrams
Sunday November 7, 2004
The Observer

There is one good reason for being in favour of a Bush victory and it is this: Bush is responsible for going to war in Iraq and for the terrible chaos that has resulted.
Had he lost the election, he could have walked away to write his memoirs, leaving the mess for Senator Kerry to try to clear up. But as things now stand, it is up to Bush, having made his bed, to jolly well lie in it. And exactly the same is true of our own dear Prime Minister who keeps telling us of his urge to move on and talk of something other than the war, when almost every day brings news of fresh atrocities.

Earlier in the year, Blair was said to be thinking of packing it all in and handing over to Gordon Brown. But then Brown would have been in the same boat as Kerry, inheriting a disaster not of his making from which there would be no easy escape.

There is some justice now in the reflection that both Bush and Blair are left to try to sort it all out, with the strong probability that things will go from bad to worse and that, like characters in a tragic play, the two of them will go down in flames, the victims of their own pride and self-righteousness. It may not be much, but I offer this comforting thought to all the many readers who may be sunk in gloom at the re-election of the appalling Mr Bush.

What are we fighting for?

We are fighting for our most valuable possession: our freedom. We are fighting for our land and our skies. We are fighting so that our children will not be slaves of foreign rulers. That is in no way an exaggeration or empty phrase.

From: http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/wehr02.htm

If I find or am given enemy propaganda material, I quickly write in large, clear letters "Enemy propaganda" on it and turn it over immediately to the nearest police station.

I do not show such enemy propaganda material to strangers.

I obey all regulations against listening to foreign radio stations, not only because there are severe penalties but also because I view it as an obvious patriotic duty.

I know that enemy propaganda material is an enemy method of warfare.

Enemy Propaganda is poison!

http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/feindpro.htm

* Printable Version
* Email This Article

Quintana Island, Texas -- When President Bush came into office in 2001, it was a boom time for the energy industry. And one of the many boats lifted was that of a small Texas company in which the president's brother played an important role.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/11/07/MNG3Q9ME2V1.DTL
PQOP

Nancy, enjoyed the article and Sally's was excellent also. I will do another re-read of both in a minute. I tend to want to "scan" it the first time and then re-read slowly, don't know why.

There is a lot of action on DU and DailyKos about a possible fraudulent election so this thing is not going away. I just hope we get paper ballots for the next election!

Enjoying the posts by everyone.

GET READY

http://www.apologyproject.com/

and, posted on Salon:

I heard it on NPR: The apology project http://www.apologyproject.com/ a place for the terminally guilty to apologize without consequences. According to the interviewer, they are thinking of starting it up again.
Do you think that the 51% (sic) will all call in at once after their social security benefits are traded away for a bag of magic beans??

Rove is on Meet the Press.

BREAKING NEWS:

Michael Moore just released a very short 3 min. documentary on the Ohio voter suppression.

Explanation of the video here:

http://www.boingboing.net/2004/11/06/electionday_footage_.html

To view the video, use this website:

http://www.metroblogging.com/videothevote/

It's great news Nancy - great article. Now I can focus my outrage on waiting for the inevitable fall of the thiefs and liars running our country.

I totally agree with everyone that we should boycott the Bushie administration with our dollar - but here's the problem....most Amercuns are lazy and stupid and wouldn't join in.

We are the few and there aren't enough of us to make a boycott work.

Points below:

The average Amercun reading level is below a 6th grade education.

1 in 3 Amercuns are obese. I know this seems off topic, but if Amercuns have no control over their appetites, even to the point of obesity and heart failure..then they certainly don't have enough self control for a boycott.

Most Amercuns don't vote and when they do, they are voting with a less than 6th grade reading comprehension (which means they are incapable of understanding that Amercuh attacked and occupied Iraq without cause) as well as they are incapable of understanding this simple statement: tax-breaks for the wealthy. Or this one: Bush is against raising minimum wage.

Most Amercuns don't read, they watch TV. TV is not reporting the truth (and even if it did would they understand it?). When they went to vote thier vote was based on 60 second commercials. Since Republicans have no problem outright lying, a lie is always more powerful than the truth. "You can't fight lies" - the damage is done.

Most Amercuns have no clue where their food comes from, what 1 million sentient beings (animals) go through each day in Amercun slaughterhouses to be their bologna sandwhich or hamburger. They also have no clue what 30 billion sentient beings go through each year in Amercun hellish factory farms (banned in Europe) where corporate greed means they are tortured in warehouses and cages their entire lives. Even scarier, they don't care.

Amercuns are not taught about foriegn cultures in school or through the TV. Most Amercuns think Arabs ride camels and Chinese work in rice fields.
It's easy to hate Arabs when the "Pres" tells you they are "the evil doers" and defines an "axis of evil". Yes - they are dumb enough to believe that.
I kid you not 3 of my ex co-workers said they want the US to "bomb the towel heads" and "nuke-em".

**************Overall - I think the stupidity in this country is our collective debt and there aren't enough of us who know better to stop it. We must be headed for economic collapse because Amercuns expect someone else to be responsible for thier country. Amercuns do not take responsibility. Not for the government, not for the environment, not for the treatment of the animals, not for the rest of the planet. It's all about "me and mine" - my job, my family, my country, my conveniences .... when it should be about US (every living being on this planet and our planets treasures, the oceans, the land, the animals).

But I do think metropolises like California and New York will survive because they are empires within themselves...move to a Blue state and you'll make it through the economic collapse? hhhmmmm....

Also, fraud was uncovered in Florida after Al Gore "lost" but really won our state. It didn't change a thing - no one reacted to it. Gore should have been re-instated when the recount showed he was the winner. It didn't happen. Why? Nobody cares! I think that even if an audit shows election fraud - Amercuns are too busy "living their egocentric lives" to force any subsequent action.

There are too few of us who care.

Pat C
Doubt that they will be smart enough to figure out the cause & effect of it!
PQOP

What I find truly sad about those in the Red States who voted for He Who Shall Not Be Named is that they will be some of the first to needlessly suffer under a "second" term. I suspect many of them struggle financially or are at least solid middle-class and have few luxuries. But paying for their children to go to college? Out the door with HWSNBNamed. Health benefits? Ditto. Watching the minimum wage plummet like his approval ratings this coming Spring? Definitely. So, those idiots who pulled the lever/punched the card/touched the screen for a Repug, but also find themselves needing to shop for bargains and clip coupons are going to be some of the first to be slammed when the bill comes due.

And it really is too bad that they're not smart enough (or aware enough?) to understand that they're not being helped by ... you know who. I think it'll take a missed mortgage payment and their car being repossesed as well as the funeral home wanting payment for their soldier son or daughter's funeral before the blinders come off and they get really, really pissed. After that happens, no amount of good ol' boy charm will stop the bleeding.

Nexxus,
Sorry....I disagree, but I gather you live in Fla. which can give you a scewed view!
( My Mother is there now & hates it! Her 24/7 caregivers are all Bushistas.)
I'm in the other Pices state Maine. There are a lot of rebellious people here. We voted Kerry in! Wonder where "all the flowers have gone"? They're HERE!

Our local paper posted election results, town by town, across the state. ALL the more PROSPEROUS, communities carried Kerry by a large margin, contrary to popular belief that the Repugs are wealthy! We are ready to take extreme measures!
The biggest proplem I perceive, is that some them are too "nice" ( True liberals) Thinking of things like publicly posting memorials to the American military, & Iraqi citizens. Some of us favor economic boycott of the corporations supporting this administration; refusing to pay Income Taxes. ( The constitution states that if we the people disagree with the way the taxes are being spent, we are not obligated to pay them.
WHO PAYS THE PRESIDENT'S SALARY? MEMBERS OF CONGRESS?
ONE HALF of the American population did NOT want Bush in! IF WE CAN AGREE ON A PLAN..............WE CAN MAKE AN IMPACT.
We also discussed yesterday the possibility of conducting volunteer powered, after school workshops for youth, to overcome the lack of education & the 30 year Repug erosion on what is taught! the parents up here are so overwhelmed with working to survive that child care is a real issue, so it should be welcomed.
We are also going to continue to publish our More Common Sense monthly Newsletter, begun in response to the demise of the Dean Campaign. Our local paper is really right wing & we have all stopped out subscriptions to it!
Stupidity is NOT our collective debt! It is the result of 30 years of Repug hard work to change things.....now it is our turn!
PQOP

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGB2R3Q991E.html

Tragic

Pat, that is really reassuring. I hope you are right! I can tell you (yes - I do live in Florida) that many of us who fought for Kerry here (our county, Pinellas, is covered with Kerry signs) - well they are really pissed off. But, because of the state of the economy - most of them had to go "back to work" and focus on their jobs, income...like okay we fought the battle and lost. They lost so much time and energy fighting to get Bush out, that they have little more to give.

But you offer hope.

It's just that my intuition tells me that there's a lot of ignorance in this country - maybe way more than we ever knew and it's reared it's ugly head. Did you know that something like less than 1% of Amercuns have college degrees? Not that that is a marker for intelligence, but college does expose one more to the rest of the world as well as expand one's thinking.

Anyway...I guess, let's just see what happens. I'm doing my part by boycotting Republican companies. Heck, I'm an animal rights activist, I am used to fighting losing battles - so I will boycott even if no one else does - just like I don't eat animals even if everyone else does. In other words, at least I know I did the right thing. In the end, that may be the most important thing to each and everyone of us spiritually - that we can look back on our lives, and know we did our part to make this world a better place.

___________________________________
The constitution states that if we the people disagree with the way the taxes are being spent, we are not obligated to pay them.
____________________________________

COUNT ME IN !!!

There is a lot of ignorance in this country and they are constantly told how great and smart they are. Critical thinking or problem solving stopped being encouraged in the schools soon after WWII. I have a fried who is a genius in computers and makes a ton of money, but she doesn't read newspapers or books, never read the classics, she never read them in school doesn't even know what the term "classic literature" means, doesn't watch PBS only watches MSNBC (she thinks Chris Matthews is cute) and Fox News. She also thinks Bush is cute and quote "likes his voice better than Kerry" and that's how she voted. She is not stupid but she is incredibly ignorant and doesn't care, why should she, she is making close to $350,000 a year. And she doesn't believe things are that bad in Iraq.

From Michael Ruppert on how to hit them financially:

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/110504_snap_out.shtml

With more detail here:

http://www.solari.com/

Beginning with our kickoff this past July 4th, we are calling for 600,000 people* worldwide to join us in pulling our checking accounts, certificates of deposits, credit cards and other business out of multi-national banks such as Citibank, Bank of America and JP Morgan Chase, and switching to local, well managed community-friendly banks or credit unions.

Oy.
First of all, it's NEVER TOO LATE.

Second, if the Washington Dems are smart (doubtful), they will cozy up to all the moderate Repugs and try to form a majority who are against Bush or at least fed up with him. Lincoln Chaffee needs to put his money where his mouth is and jump the aisle, and Jim Jeffords needs to go from Independent to Dem.

The above would be great but it's doubtful because the Dems have proven themselves to be cloven-hooved cowards.

Assuming we can't do this politically, which I doubt we can, we MUST do this ECONOMICALLY. This country, sadly, is all about money and we have to change the monetary power structure.

Think about it. It's the corporations who own the GOP. The corporations have that power because of OUR MONEY. Things that require a lot of people to make them work HAVE been working because of the Internet.
THis is all I have been able to collect so far, but I am contemplating starting a website that lists all corporate contributors to the Repug party - a resource where people can go to print lists to take to the grocery store and elsewhere with them, so they can support the corps who donate to Dems and starve the ones that donate to the Repugs. I haven't thought it all through yet, but I will.

Meanwhile, here is a partial list - some of the top contributors to Bush. Print this list out, pass it around, tell all you know NOT to buy any of these products or services. Read labels. Make sure the parent company is not one of these people. Buy your food in health food stores. I will work on getting a more comprehensive list, and deeper info on what other smaller companies these people own.

50 million + people CAN make a HUGE difference. Most of the big money is in the BLUE states. We will use the Internet to do it, and enlist the help of people like Michael Moore and Greg Palast.

We CAN do this.
_____________________________

Altria, formerly Philip Morris.
AT&T
Microsoft
UPS (Use DHL! or USPS)
MBNA
Citigroup
Pfizer
FED X
Bristol Myers Squib
Glaxo Smith Kline
Wal Mart (Go to TARGET!)
General Electric
Exxon Mobil
AOL Time Warner
Anheuser Busch
Chevron-Texaco
Pepsico
Schering Plough
Archer Daniels Midland
Wyeth
Alticor
American Airlines
Ford Motor Company
BP Amoco
Walt Disney

SOME THOUGHTS ABOUT THE BUSH FAMILY

After waiting a long time to see this family "get theirs", I've revised my thinking somewhat. I've read all the stories about Prescott Bush's alliance with the Nazis. How George Bush actually collects a monthly stipend from this Trust Fund.

This is a family which has surfed the wave of success for several generations now. Karma does not seem to affect them. No matter what they do, they never get caught. In fact, their success just keeps increasing.

By Karma here I'm referring to a force which creates an exact and equal force. You rob a 7-11 store, and you will go to jail. I don't really care if Bush sits at the dinner table, chewing his lobster tail in dill sauce, and suddenly realizes that 10 innocent Iraqis have just died. That's not the Karma I'm talking about. I'm talking about getting this man knocked from power.

People have called him the "Teflon" president. Others have called him Untouchable, the AntiChrist, Mabus. Other countries now see him as having the ultimate power.

The more we fight back, the more powerful they become. They now have Complete Power in the White House. There was one episode of Star Trek where the planet's inhabitants fed off of the negative energy of the crew. As the Captain became more angry, the more power they seemed to gain, and they encouraged him to blow his top.

Bush has now become a very personal icon in all of our lives. His image sits there, challenging everything we've been taught as kids like "what goes around comes around", "do unto others", "The Golden Rule". His sneering face is imprinted on my brain as "The Man who could get away with anything".

All major religions address this issue. They urge their followers to use restraint and not follow their rash impulses. They try to equalize the hideous unfairness in this world by assuring, "You'll get your reward in heaven", and "Blessed are the meek" etc etc. A good portion of the Bible is devoted to this issue.

So what to do now? Abandon our childhood mantras and go for it, like they do? Or just sit and wait for them to get theirs, at long last? We may have to wait a long time. In the final analysis, it becomes a personal issue.

Like it or not, Bush has entered our brains as the ultimate challenge.

YES!!!, Nancy, CREDIT UNIONS! They will try to pass laws or implement ridiculous taxes against CUs and the like, but we have to stay one strp ahead of them. We need to get some crack stock analysts and lawyers on our side to study which stocks/companies are most vulnerable and go after those first.

Damn it, folks can jump down my throat for getting pissy, but I am NOT going to listen to any defeatist crap any more. WE CAN FIGHT THIS. Not politically, but with our wallets. It's money they thrive on - and we have the power to starve them.

Talk to everyone you know. Email this list around. I'll put more up as I have time to do the research. Do some of your own. It is NOT hard to make simple changes in how you shop.

Go here:

http://www.opensecrets.org/overview/topcontribs.asp?cycle=2004

The latter, I tend to think is more accurate. The first list was from a blog. Use the second.

Whoa. Now I don't know which list to believe. This one says Walt Disney leans Dem? Don't think so. Maybe blogger is better (list in message upthread. Need to do more research. Be back later.

Lucy, I'm with you. And if others won't boycott, do it alone. Hell, be a one person crusader, if necessary. But let's start somewhere and not concern ourselves with who will or will not boycott with us.

Lucy,

Although I'm not a fan of Walt Disney Studios, I do know that they have same sex partner benefits and the people who work there (many of them openly gay or lesbian) are to be found at one Democratic or Third Party fundraiser in LA after another. So, maybe they are a lot more Dem than Repug.

http://tabletalk.salon.com/webx?14@@.773a526c/0

Lots here.

Right on Lucy. We switched the way we 'buy' in 2000 before Bush came into power. I was glad to see the list you posted and was even more relieved to find that we hadn't supported any of these Bush contributors. The other step we've taken is to pay in CASH and to buy local, and boy do I boycott. Radio Shack is another one, they are a fundie company and practice religious discrimination.
Wild ride we're on.

Namaste

Oh me . . . . .

“Another mysterious accident solves a Bush problem. Athan Gibbs dead, Diebold lives.” The attached news story briefly described the untimely Friday, March 12, death of perhaps America’s most influential advocate of a verified voting paper trail in the era of touch screen computer voting.

Gibbs, an accountant for more than 30 years and the inventor of the TruVote system, died when his vehicle collided with an 18-wheeled truck which rolled his Chevy Blazer several times and forced it over the highway retaining wall where it came to rest on its roof.

Coincidence theorists will simply dismiss the death of Gibbs as a tragic accident..

Gibbs’ death bears heightened scrutiny because of the way he lived his life after the 2000 Florida election debacle. I interviewed Athan Gibbs in January of this year. “I’ve been an accountant, an auditor, for more than 30 years. Electronic voting machines that don’t supply a paper trail go against every principle of accounting and auditing that’s being taught in American business schools,” he insisted.

“These machines are set up to provide paper trails. No business in America would buy a machine that didn’t provide a paper trail to audit and verify its transaction. Now, they want the people to purchase machines that you can’t audit? It’s absurd.”

http://onlinejournal.com/evoting/031904Fitrakis/031904fitrakis.html

Someone above mentioned that the Constitution states that if we, the People, don't agree with how our taxes are being spent, that we, the People, can refuse to pay them. Is this true? And, if so, can we find exactly where in the Constitution this is said? If so, we can write letters to our Reps, en masse, and, stating the clause in the Constitution, demand that our taxes handled through OUR Reps not be used in ways We (a collective We) disagree with eg. Iraq, Halliburton contracts, *'s salary without proof that the Election was honest and not rigged, etc.

Our Reps are agreeing to things we disagree with. When do we hold THEM accountable?

Just a thought.

ill Moyers interview with Peter Peterson

http://www.pbs.org/now/transcript/transcript_peterson.html

what you can do about it

ET TU BRUTE?

(From Wash Post article)
"Four More Years Attributed to Rove's Strategy"

"After the president's victory, Rove earned praise even from some of those he bested. One Kerry adviser said: "I think Rove is an incredibly bright and effective and capable guy, and they clearly won. The last guy they need lessons from is me, who lost."
***
If even the advisors are ignoring the wailing of activists over election suppression and evote fraud possibilities, what does that say?

Stunning isn't it Suji??

I've never done this before, but feel it's something you all should be aware of. Below is an e.mail just sent to me by an acquaintance. Sent chills through me when I read it:

Hi everyone:

Please read.

President Bush has announced his plan to select Dr. W. David Hager to head up the Food and Drug Administration's (FDA) Reproductive Health Drugs Advisory Committee. The committee has not met for more than two years, during which time its charter lapsed. As a result, the Bush Administration is tasked with filling all eleven positions with new
members. This position does not require Congressional approval. The FDA's Reproductive Health Drugs Advisory Committee makes crucial decisions on matters relating to drugs used in the practice of obstetrics, gynecology and related specialties, including hormone
therapy, contraception, treatment for infertility, and medical alternatives to surgical procedures for sterilization and pregnancy termination.

Dr. Hager, the author of "As Jesus Cared for Women: Restoring Women Then and Now." The book blends biblical accounts of Christ healing Women with case studies from Hager's practice. His views
of reproductive health care are far outside the mainstream for productive technology.

Dr. Hager is a practicing OB/GYN who describes himself as "pro-life" and refuses to prescribe contraceptives to
unmarried women.

In the book Dr. Hager wrote with his wife, entitled "Stress and the Woman's Body," he suggests that women who suffer from premenstrual syndrome should seek help from reading the bible and praying. As an editor and contributing author of "The Reproduction Revolution: A Christian Appraisal of Sexuality Reproductive Technologies and the
Family," Dr. Hager appears to have endorsed the medically inaccurate
assertion that the common birth control pill is an abortifacient.

We are concerned that Dr. Hager's strong religious beliefs may color his assessment of technologies that are necessary to protect women's lives or to preserve and promote women's health. Hager's track record of using religious beliefs to guide his medical decision-making makes him a dangerous and inappropriate candidate to serve as chair of this committee. Critical drug public policy and research must not be held hostage by antiabortion politics. Members of this important panel should be appointed on the basis of science and medicine, rather than politics and religion. American women deserve no less. There is something you can do.

Below is a statement to be sent to the White House, opposing the placement of Hager.

(1) Please copy and paste (DON'T forward) the entire email into a fresh
email; then sign your name below. After you sign, SEND THIS TO EVERY PERSON YOU KNOW WHO IS CONCERNED ABOUT WOMEN'S RIGHTS.
(2) Every 10th person who signs the list (i.e., #10, #20, #30, etc.) -
please forward the entire e-mail to president@whitehouse.gov.

We oppose the appointment of Dr. W. David Hager to the FDA Reproductive
Health Drugs Advisory Committee. Mixing religion and medicine is unacceptable in a policy-making position. Using the FDA to promote a political agenda is inappropriate and seriously threatens women's health. Members of this important panel should be appointed on the basis of science and medicine, rather than politics and religion.
American women deserve no less.

The corpo-fascists have us by the (you know what!) We CAN fight them with our wallet and we SHOULD... But... there are not enough willing to do that to overpower them? Because (and you're not going to like hearing this) they have the bulk of the power. Perhaps part of our lesson, part of the collective karma is to become 'powerless' as the Native Americans were, as the African Americans were (both groups pretty much STILL are... I can hear them saying "Whatcha taling 'bout? Cheated? We've been cheated out of elections for decades!)... Perhaps? The astrology articles I've read here and elsewhere are saying there are cycles at work.

Most of us have arrogantly assumed most of our lives that we could create a better life for ourselves and our children... that we are 'entitled'. How 'bout the Iraqis and the Palestinians? Is anyone paying attention to the devastation they are experiencing first-hand. All of the Middle East, for that matter. And then of course there's Africa... and a litany of injustice... All in the name of "we want, we need, we will pay cheap, steal, whatever, because we're superior folk"

I am reminded of some members of my family who have never been able to 'learn' anything except by direct experience of consequences of their actions. My middle grandchild for example. Bright, perhaps too bright. He likes to 'slide' through... at age eleven, the teachers have always overlooked his failure to produce assignments on time... grading on potential I guess. His mother has insisted they make him responsible for his inaction or delayed reaction. Well, this year some teachers are listening, this A student, gifted classes, is bringing home C's and d's this report card... angry, sullen... taking it out on his younger brother, with a punch here or there. The younger one is told to report abuse, not hit back. Nature provided him with an advantage --- he's bigger and more 'in his body' than his older brother was at his age. My take is one day soon the younger is going to beat the stuffin out of the older boy. Meanwhile, the family suffers with the middle child's refusal to be a 'team player' to do his chores... to do his assignments in school on time... blah, blah. No matter what we do to make this child accountable, the whole family suffers in some way. I extrapolate that to this mis-leader and our country... and I'm thinking there is a nation state growing in size and strength that will punch *sh's lights out. Maybe two or three nation states. Maybe it will be an economic battle, maybe otherwise. But we will all suffer with the collective... no way around it... is there?

We can do our best to protect ourselves and our loved ones, and continue to boycott, fight with our wallets. But we delude ourselves if we think that remedy will come soon and cleanly. Nov. 2nd/ 3rd showed me that.

Sally, I recall your comments in your article below I believe... that you didn't realize the extent of this fascism... I share that with you. And you remarked that you knew about the emachines and the possibility, but... I share that with you. Feel like I've been hit with a 2x4. There's a southern expression... how do you get a mule's attention: hit him with a 2x4! Well, I didn't realize I was a mule... I'm not and you're not of course. But there are more veils remaining than I realized that have to come down for this soul.

Still think the 12 step program's 'one day at the time' is good for me right now. The nightmare of the last four years has worsened... and it seems the play is not closing... it's been extended... some say wait for 2006. Some say 2008. Still others 2011. Well, I don't know if I have that many more years left... but I anguish over the life my daughter and her family will have... so, I have my sleeves rolled up and have going to continue to fight the good fight... but this time free of any delusions that the war will be a short one. Just hope I can hang in here for another decade or two and give 'em hell.

Jonathan,

It was my post that commented about not having to recognize this government, not having to pay taxes. I mistakenly cited The Constitution. I meant the Declaration of Independence. It's in the beginning, I'll paste part of it here and you can go to Crisispapers for it in full. Maybe we should 'declare our independence'?

----------

WHEN, in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume, among the Powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights; that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness. That, to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That, whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such Principles, and organizing its Powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and, accordingly, all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But, when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies, and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world:

http://crisispapers.org/liberty/independence.htm

--------------

IMHO the Bill of Rights has been shredded... the Neocons are suggesting we don't need The Constitution... the fundies (Pat Robertson) say instead of placing your hand on the Bible and swearing to uphold the Constitution, one should place one's hand on the Constitution and swear to uphold the Bible.

Revolting idea, don't you think? Well, then... why aren't we 'revolting'? Seems to me there's a lesson to be learned here too for all of us gentle souls that would prefer to persuade and discuss, while they steal our votes and send our children to be killed in an unnecessary war.

You cited Hagel above Jonathan as wanting to withhold birth control from unmarried women. They seek chaos, instability, strive, etc... they seek war within this country... we have indeed become the 'disunited states of America'... what we going to do about it?

Morgana, the ride is going to be bumpy indeed.

Sharon,

The fundies and other religious believe they can send 'missionaries' to the heathens and 'save' them. You were suggesting upthread or in Sally's article that we try and persuade the Fundies? Isn't that simply playing their game? Becoming missionaries? Frankly, I don't think it will work. In my own family I walk a fine line trying to maintain a relationship with my younger Fundie sister who tries every now and then to either 'save my soul' or throw *sh in my face. I finally told her if she wants a relationship with me she has to leave politics and religion out of our conversation. She has and I relate with her now, because we love each other. But my neighbor with whom I have been friends for twenty years doesn't 'love' me and never refrains from talking about 'Jesus' or *sh, so we don't visit...

Religion does not belong in government. End of story. If you become a 'missionary' and try to persuade them to your point of view, you are going to get a 'bloody' forehead from that brick wall. Better to stand my ground and assert my opinion is worthy... and the law is on my side, btw... Fundie, dear... you don't have the right to bring the bible into the classroom or city hall. Give 'em an inch Sharon, well, I live in a Red State... they pray in school, have prayer before governmental meetings... etc., etc. See what happens when you try to negotiate.

For me, it's sort of like giving children too many choices. Sometimes you do... but on the important things, you explain: these are the rules, it is non-negotiable, everybody plays by the same rules. End of story. No religion in politics. Therein lies the problem, in my non-humble opinion.

SALLY M

I did not see your column until now. And I have just posted this under that column, but in case it is not seen, I'm repeating it here. Also as
both you and I are concerned with eugenics, the above article about Dr. Hager is especially chilling. This is not a joke. They're picking up from where they left off. Women and children, and the poor in this country are especially in danger of being sterilized for being poor or stupid, or having too many children. Jesus. They should start with the cretin in the White House.

We, the citizens of this country are in serious danger from the leftover nazis who control this country now.

SALLY M.

This is the best, the strongest, the clearest, and most impactive column you have ever written, and it reaches into me.

Thank you.

I know you followed some of my writings elsewhere in my efforts to educate and wake people up. I did quite a bit of research on the American
Eugenics movement. Get ready - because here it comes back to the USA, as Sally phrased so well above.

For those who don;t know, Hitler's idea of Eugenics and "the final solution"
came from his readings of experiments and laws passed in the US in the 20's and supported and formed by the Carnegie, Mellons, Rockefellers..and various other monied oil and banking families whose beliefs that they were and are superior to every other human being, resulted in the extermination of between 13 and 17 million people.

Posted by: Pallas18 on November 7, 2004 07:24 PM

Sally and all,

Re: the black armbands I think is still a good idea....the national strikes, staying home, not buying, yes.

But Today's news: Bush has arranged for more security than has ever been seen in DC for his inauguration....rings loud and clear of danger for
any who would stand even quietly in dissension.

There is no doubt in my mind that they will kill any of us who stand openly in objection to him.

Refraining from buying and black armbands will be enough if we can spread the word.

One other thing - how many of us do crafts? We need to put glue and some material on the armband that says Nov. 3, 2004.

I think we could sell the black armbands on DU - the money raised I would like to contribute to
(some has to go to DU) Sally's Salon and the ACLU.

Any helpers?

*********************************************
THE HERBST NEWSLETTER
astrological-cultural-spiritual-political views & opinions

--- Thoughts, dates, and reminders about our lives as
members of the craziest species on this lovely planet.
Like a message in a bottle washing up on the sandy
shores of consciousness ---

Issue #71; November, 2004

*********************************************

Dear friends,

For more than two years, I’ve written a great deal about politics, as viewed through the twin lenses of astrology and my own personal beliefs. At this point, I’m pretty fed up with the whole political circus, not because Bush won (which didn’t thrill me, but I wasn’t enthused about the Kerry alternative, either), but rather because my psychic sensors are just plain worn out from the vibrations of collective stress, fear, and conflict.

I could say that I’ll write less about politics from now on, but, if this newsletter is any indication, politics may continue be an unavoidable subject. At any rate, my intention is to devote more newsletters in the near future to purely astrological issues. Until then, I hope you can put up with one final chapter on the election, my two cents’ worth of “What Now?” analysis.

--Bill Herbst



Commentary: Election Post-Mortem

Thank God it’s over.

More than ever before, this election campaign ripped away the paper-thin pretense that American politics is anything other than a stinking cesspool of crass manipulation and unconscionable deceit. Both major-party candidates, their campaign spokespeople, and their 527 attack dogs were guilty of endless partisan lies that ranged from the subtly dubious to the outrageously bald-faced. In fairness, though, the Democrats can’t hold a candle in that department to the Republicans, who have taken lying to the level of an art form, and a strikingly successful one at that.

Truth, of course, is an elusive creature, especially in America, where image trumps substance, fantasy mocks reality, and you can convince a gullible public of damn near anything, as long as you play to their fears, advertise with a vengeance, and never deviate from hammering home your simplistic message in easy, predigested sound bytes. Baby food for adult babies.

In the September newsletter, I discussed the possibilities for the future in the astrological charts of both major-party candidates. Now that one of those possible futures has been dismissed (John Kerry), I want to go into more depth about what’s upcoming in President George W. Bush’s chart and how those active cycles may affect his second term.

Like many astrologers, I made no clear prediction about the outcome of this election. Astrologically, it was simply too close to call in advance. The best interpretation I could offer was that the heavens did not particularly favor President Bush, but I also stated that I didn’t know who would win. In the end, Bush’s advantages (incumbency, simplicity, and a frightened electorate) proved sufficient to give him a second term.

At Mr. Bush’s press conference this past week, he appeared ebullient at his victory, and why not? His chart has been under withering pressure for the past year, yet Bush not only persevered, but won. With a 51-48% margin of victory, where 100,000 votes in Ohio would have swung the election, claiming any definitive mandate questionable, but arrogance is Bush’s stock in trade. His actual words were that he had “earned capital in the campaign” and now “intended to spend it.” Ah, another endearing metaphor straight from capitalism, our national religion.

Clearly, Bush intends to push harder than ever for his radical agenda (Uranus is the leading planet in his chart). There will be no conciliation, no “reaching across the aisle” to ameliorate the 55 million Americans who voted against him. The president is on a seek-and-destroy mission with a vengeance typical of his political history. Anyone who opposes his beliefs is an arch enemy to be destroyed.

Does astrology support this take-no-prisoners attitude as Bush’s second term unfolds? Will he be able to use his Republican-controlled Congress to push through tort reform, more tax cuts, and Social Security privatization? Will he wage further wars in “pre-emptive” invasions against Syria, Iran, or North Korea? Could any of the ongoing scandals (Abu Ghraib, Valerie Plume, or the tragedy in Iraq) gain enough public momentum to tarnish his image or derail his plans? The astrological responses to all those questions are quite mixed.

Numerous chart factors will embolden Mr. Bush. Between this December and August of 2005, a trio of significant Jupiter transits occurs in his chart (Jupiter first-quarter square his natal Sun and conjunct his natal Moon and Jupiter). Jupiter transits are linked to optimism, buoyancy, social opportunity, and good fortune in general.

The beginning of Bush’s current twelve-year Jupiter-Sun cycle coincided with the 9/11 attacks in 2001, lifting his presidency out of the confused morass of its first year and galvanizing Mr. Bush with the vision that has sustained him ever since. The upcoming Jupiter transits represent the next phase of that energetic vision, the making physical of what started in deep emotion. So we can expect the president to continue to prosecute his wars on America’s “enemies” with renewed vigor.

The pitfalls of Jupiter transits stem mainly from overconfidence (which leans toward hubris) and counting on one’s luck, both of which are errors to which Bush is vulnerable. Those dangers won’t deter the president, but they may complicate his life (and ours) later through unforeseen and unintended consequences.

The other provocative factor upcoming in Bush’s chart is Uranus’ transiting square to his natal Mars, which lasts about a year, starting in late February 2005 and remaining active through January 2006. I wrote about this transit at some length in the September newsletter, but it deserves reiterating.

This transit is one of the most aggressive and potent in all of astrology. Uranus represents sudden, shocking developments of a radical and revolutionary nature. Considered as an event-oriented passage, it presages unpredictable changes of circumstance. Interpreted psychologically, as an inward state, Uranus provokes intractable willfulness and bold action, where all caution is cast aside.

In the chart of a president already inclined toward war, Uranus’ transit of Mars is profoundly worrisome. Violence is almost surely the result, whether as intentional state-to-state warfare, more unexpected terrorist attacks, or even harm to Bush himself. Psychologically, Mr. Bush will experience extreme impatience, and he will very likely lash out angrily and with little tact at anyone who stands in his way, earning him even more enemies than he has now.

The pitfall of the Uranus-Mars transit is recklessness, moving ahead without any concern for what may be very real dangers of retaliation. Bush has already exhibited these tendencies, and they could easily be expressed ten-fold during 2005.

To add fuel to this fire, consider that the most commonly used chart of the USA (called the “Sibly” chart) contains a Mars-Neptune square that is being transited by Pluto in 2004-2005. The last time Pluto transited Mars and Neptune in the USA chart was from late-1967 through mid-1969, which was the period of the most dramatic military escalation of our misadventure in Vietnam, with accompanying assassinations (Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King), massive civil disobedience, and race riots here at home. That chaotic turbulence is upon us once again.

Given these belligerent factors in the president’s and the nation’s charts, the first year of Bush’s second term is astrologically the most dangerous time or country has faced for decades.

On the other hand, what chart factors might constrain the President? Two sets of transits, from Chiron and Saturn, will provide if not inhibition, at least serious consequences to Bush’s intentions.

In January, Chiron opposes Bush’s Saturn, and then, over the rest of 2005, it sits on Bush’s Descendant. Chiron’s action is to bring to awareness unhealed wounds and other long-term unconscious disturbances in our lives. It does this by ripping open the abscessed parts of our psyches, revealing to us what we have ignored, often through a painful confrontation with our own misunderstandings. For George W. Bush, these transits indicate that he may be forced to deal with two of his personal failings: 1. the refusal to face reality (Saturn), and 2. The stubborn unwillingness to listen to contrary viewpoints (Descendant).

Despite his re-election, Saturn will continue to put pressure on Mr. Bush. He is undergoing two important Saturn transits now: his second Saturn Return (meaning that Saturn in the heavens has returned to its location at Bush’s birth) and Saturn square his Midheaven.

Saturn Returns are chronological; they occur for everyone at the ages of 29, 58, and 87. The first Saturn Return represents the end of childhood and beginning of real adulthood. The second Saturn Return symbolizes the end of the personal or family-based ambitions of productive mid-life and their replacement by increasing concerns for one’s legacy, enlarged perspectives on humanity, and greater interest in universal questions of life and death. This transit (along with the simultaneous activation of Bush’s Midheaven, the point in every chart that indicates career drive and social standing), means that the president is rethinking the uses to which his power might be used for the greater good.

Unfortunately, Bush’s idea of the greater good differs substantially from about half of his fellow Americans. Saturn indicates that he may encounter far more resistance and frustration than he anticipates. That won’t prevent him from pushing ahead, but it will set up the next looming series of sobering Saturn transits.

From late August 2005 through early July 2006, Saturn will pass over Bush’s Ascendant, Mercury, and Pluto. These three simultaneous transits will have a stark and powerful effect toward restraining the president. Starting in the middle of his Uranus-Mars transit, Saturn indicates a chilling reaction in real consequences. Saturn’s passage of the Ascendant indicates chickens coming home to roost in a period of forced personal reassessment. The results of whatever we did in our lives over the previous 22 years---successes and failures, wise choices and confused mistakes---finally emerge in another of the various Saturnian events that represent “reaping what we sowed.”

Transits carry both generic interpretations that apply to all of us and other, more personal ramifications that are tailored to each individual life. In Bush’s case, the personal meanings of these Saturn transits include his relationship to his parents and family of origin (especially harkening back difficulties or grief in his childhood), his emotional and physical vitality, and questions of faith versus doubt. In addition, certain Saturn transits (especially the ones upcoming) bring revelations of what had previously been secret, meaning kept hidden from public view or denied in Bush’s awareness. If any brewing scandals do finally boil over to censure the president, that period (Aug 2005 – July 2006) will be their most likely timing.

Through the initial two years of his second term, President Bush’s health---mental, emotional, and physical---will be under increasing pressure. As I’ve written before, Bush’s defenses are very strong (stress tends to be diverted into his unconscious), but the built-in strain of his office and unexpected opposition from external reality may exact a larger toll from him then they have so far.

Pragmatically, we can be certain that Mr. Bush will attempt to manifest his revolutionary vision for America and its role in the world. To what extent he will succeed in this crusade remains to be seen.


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Shade, thanks for correcting me. I did mean the Soviet Union's sun. I remember reading about the breakup in one of Liz Green's books published prior to the breakup. That's always stuck with me.

and here's where the born again Chimp can't get away with his religious wackiness as far as birth control pills go:

These big Republican drug companies make birth control pills and they DO want to keep making $$$$:

Altria, formerly Philip Morris.
Pfizer
Bristol Myers Squib
Glaxo Smith Kline
Wyeth

It is all about the money for any drug corporation and making birth control pills illegal would seriously cut into their profits. They are not about to let religious weirdness cut into their pockets.

****By the way, if any of you are taking birth control pills, they are bad for your body and you are better off finding alternative means anyway - but it's good to know the religious weirdness can't possibly stop the flow for those who use them...and uhhh, that would be, I dunno AT LEAST 80% of all females of reproductive age!

And if things really got weird, female Amercuns could buy birth control pills from foreign countries - helping to empower the European Union and Canada economically. And in the meantime Amercun Republican drug companies take a fall.

and oh man ... here's how scary these people are:
http://www.prolife.com/BIRTHCNT.html

No compromise

http://jameswolcott.com/archives/2004/11/merry_kristof.php

I'm curious how Bush's chiron energy manifests in Laura Bush's chart.

Nancy, I have never really addressed you personally, unlike others here who know you, and I don't know anything more about you than your writings, but I want to express my appreciation that you posted Catherine Austin Fitts web site Solari....this is what she says on the homepage:
We hereby declare our independence from the behavior which is destroying our country and our world.

We are not going to wait for another rigged election. We are voting now in a system that can't be rigged.

We are not going to ask more Congressmen, Commissions, Administration Representatives or Presidential Candidates for help.

We have the power of our votes in the marketplace.

We are going to exercise that power now!

Beginning with our kickoff this past July 4th, we are calling for 600,000 people worldwide to join us in pulling our checking accounts, certificates of deposits, credit cards and other business out of multi-national banks such as Citibank, Bank of America, JP Morgan Chase, and switching to a local, well managed community-friendly bank or credit union...
    Read more >

Please visit, everyone, Catherine's web site...she more than anyone knows what is going on...I've posted more than once about her story...but hers is a well organized community and growing in power and visibility...http://www.solari.com Her Gideon section explains what happened to her re the government....a hell of a story.

She called me on Nov 2, but I was out of my sick bed and voting....still haven't connected. But will give her an email to let her know that this site is here, too...

so thanks for the article and support also, Nancy....

Pallas, I am sorry I have not seen your postings else where, but I have so darn little time to go through other chat sites. I mentioned Eugenics because I did a paper on it in college as it related to the Darwin work. The guy who introduced Eugincs (well-born) somewhere in the late 1800's I think 1883, was a cousin of Darwins and they thought they could make a master race. Sadly steralization has been practiced on patients in mental institutions, prisons, homes for the mentally and physically handicapped farther back than my research, again, well before Christ. Technology has made eugenics more of a possibility, designer babies. Pitiful. Countries will decide who can have children and who can't, I hate to think of what's coming in this area.

Posted on Salon:

From Slate's Today's Papers:

The NYT also fronts an analysis of how Bush took Florida with a GOTV effort that was much stronger than the Democrats', successfully employing 109,000 volunteers to make three million voter contacts in the days before the election (at 400,000 the 2004 margin of victory was up a ways from 537). The Dems also appear to have been badly humbugged—Florida Republicans are now claiming that their well-publicized threats to challenge questionable registrants was a "big head fake," meant to get the Kerry folks to worry about fielding thousands of lawyers instead of getting their base out to vote.

given the speed with which "they" seem to be manipulating the media and capitalizing on their "mandate" (I expect a school prayer reversal hourly) ... is this not perhaps opportunitistic use of yet another "head fake" -- notice please that they have again set the agenda and have made a hallelujah chorus of the media ... "poor dems, don't know what to do now" .... so, like Gore and the "earth tones" ... what ever response might be generated, will be scorned.

or

The Florida challenges were in fact cicumvented by court rulings in Ohio .... but other legal challenges would have gone forward had the race been tighter ... they just weren't needed.

or

the vote was stolen and the numbers game is all a lie.

Republicans are now claiming that their well-publicized threats to challenge questionable registrants was a "big head fake,"

This is nothing but the-opposite-of-sour-grapes, where when you win, everything you did was right.

It's like pointing to a pile of your own shit and calling it 'sculpture'

it's also like pointing to voter intimidation and calling it a "prank" ... unfortunately ... all the rethug misdeeds are being happily swept away by our happy homemakers in the media .... sweep sweep sweep ... brain wash, rinse, repeat ...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BoycottReds/

Sally,

You're correct about the history of sterilization. We have a recent history of it here in South Carolina... in my county... I've mentioned this on this site before, but it was in the 70s... a Repug OB/Gyn was coercing women on Medicaid who already had one child to undergo tubal ligation immediately after the delivery of their second child, or he would not give prenatal care or handle the delivery. At the time we had 3 OB/GYNs in the area, and the other two refused to take Medicaid patients. I brought his activities to the attention of the local and national media; he lost his right to treat medicaid patients and the government forced him to repay funds he had rec'd from them for past year, amounting to over $60,000. I might add that most of the women were African American and he was racist. He was later sued by his wife for divorce. Grounds: physical abuse.

Wonder what would happen in a similar situation today?

http://www.blackboxvoting.org/

Documents indicate voting machine certification fraud

We’re awaiting independent analysis on some pretty crooked-looking elections. In the mean time, here’s something to chew on.

Your local elections officials trusted a group called NASED -- the National Association of State Election Directors -- to certify that your voting system is safe.

This trust was breached.

NASED certified the systems based on the recommendation of an “Independent Testing Authority” (ITA).

What no one told local officials was that the ITA did not test for security (and NASED didn’t seem to mind).

The ITA reports are considered so secret that even the California Secretary of State’s office had trouble getting its hands on one. The ITA refused to answer any questions about what it does. Imagine our surprise when, due to Freedom of Information requests, a couple of them showed up in our mailbox.

The most important test on the ITA report is called the “penetration analysis.” This test is supposed to tell us whether anyone can break into the system to tamper with the votes.

BUT

Georgia's DRE machines were never certified to begin with, at least according to my replies to FOIA requests. Let alone the many, many changes made to the software. NO ONE outside of Diebold looked at those changes.

And here's the icing on the cake: Even if they WERE "certified" all that means is some nutcase Texas hack named R. Doug Lewis put his rubber stamp on them. There IS NO REAL CERTIFICATION PROCESS, PEOPLE. It's a joke. A really BAD joke.

"The Election Center", which is authorized to "certify" is nothing more than a two-room office in a run-down strip mall.... in Texas. (I have a friend who has been there and photographed it. When she was there the doors were locked and nobody was home.)

http://tabletalk.salon.com/webx?13@@.773a529d/299

PatC, regarding your comment "given the speed to which 'they' seem to manipulating the media...," let me say this loudly, and I'll repeat it as many times as is necessary, THE MEDIA DOES NOT AND IS NOT MANIPULATED. THEY ARE WILLING PLAYERS.

Sally: I love your "nasty little Scorpio idea".

It would be even better if it were legally possible to do it. Similar to the Texas Democrats walk off last summer or was it the summer before. Time flys. Does anybody know if this would be legal?

Janet, I know. That was posted on Salon by someone else. I thought they were educational.

Hey, don't forget to read Sally's article, too....both were posted simultaneously....but I am going to repost this:

Here is the third and final installment of the chilling and somewhat liberating BBC documentary series "The Power of Nightmares."

http://dc.indymedia.org/media/all/display/21750/index.php

I have posted it to the Washington DC indymedia site. It is in REAL PLAYER format.

This time I have made the file of a much higher quality. It's about 60MB!

Maybe if all the Red States had been made to watch this before the election things might have turned out differently....

Funny, eh? The election was lost by 100,000 votes in Ohio. And the Lancet magazine suggests that 100,000 innocent Iraqi civilians have been killed since the invasion.

If the dead could vote.....?

MoDo sees it too.

Rove's Revenge
By MAUREEN DOWD

WASHINGTON - Just how much did Karl Rove hate not being one of the cool guys in high school in the 60's? Enough to hatch schemes to marshal the forces of darkness to take over the country?

Oh, yeah.

A supporter of Nixon against Kennedy at 9, the teenage Karl was, in his description, "a big nerd," a small guy with a pocket protector, briefcase, and glasses almost as big as his head.

Even as a high school debater in Salt Lake City, "Rove didn't just want to win;he wanted the opponents destroyed," write James Moore and Wayne Slater in "Bush's Brain." "He would defeat them, slaughter them and humiliate them."

The Boy Genius, as W. calls him, the "architect" who helped him get the second term he dearly wanted to surpass his father, is happy to crush the liberal elites inspired by Kennedy's New Frontier under the steamroller of 19th-century
family values.

Like the president, vice president and defense secretary, General Karl wanted to wipe out the gray, if-it-feels-good-do-it, blame-America-first,
doused-in-Vietnam-guilt 60's and turn the clock back to the black-and-white Manichaean values of the 50's.

W. and Karl played up western movie stereotypes. After 9/11, the rugged frontier myth, the hunter/Indian-fighter hero in a war of civilization against savagery worked better than ever. But this White House's frontier is not a place of infinite progress and expansion, stretching society's boundaries. It doesn't
battle primitivism; it courts primitivism.

Instead of the New Frontier, Karl and W. offer the New Backtier.

Even as a child, I could feel the rush of J.F.K.'s presidency racing forward, opening up a thrilling world of possibilities and modernity. We were going to the moon. We were confronting racial intolerance. We were paying any price and
bearing any burden for freedom. We were respecting faith but keeping it out of politics. Our president was inspiring much of the world. Our first lady was setting the pace in style and culture.

W.'s presidency rushes backward, stifling possibilities, stirring intolerance, confusing church with state, blowing off the world, replacing science with religion, and facts with faith. We're entering another dark age, more
creationist than cutting edge, more premodern than postmodern. Instead of leading America to an exciting new reality, the Bushies cocoon in a scary, paranoid, regressive reality. Their new health care plan will probably be a return to leeches.

America has always had strains of isolationism, nativism, chauvinism, puritanism and religious fanaticism. But most of our leaders, even our devout presidents, have tried to keep these impulses under control. Not this crew. They don't call to our better angels; they summon our nasty devils.

Jimmy Carter won the evangelical vote in 1976, and he won it in Ohio. He combined his evangelical appeal with a call for social justice, integrating his church and laboring for world peace. But W. appealed to that vote's most crabbed insecurities - the disparaging of the other, the fear of those godless hedonists
in the blue states out to get them and their families. And the fear of scientific progress, as with stem cell research.

When William Jennings Bryan took up combating the theory of evolution, he did it because he despised the social Darwinists who used the theory to justify the "survival of the fittest" in capitalism. Bryan hated anything that justified an economic system that crushed poor workers and farmers, and he hated that the
elites would claim there was scientific basis for keeping society divided and unequal.

The new evangelicals challenge science because they've been stirred up to object to social engineering on behalf of society's most vulnerable: the poor, the sick, the sexually different.

Yet the Bush conservatives do their own social engineering. They thought they could toughen up the American character with the invasion of Iraq. Now they want to reshape the country on "moral" issues - though their morality seems to allow
them to run a campaign full of blatant distortions and character assassination,
and to mislead the public about the war.

Back in 1994, Newt Gingrich said he wanted the government to mold the moral character of Americans and wipe out remnants of the "counterculture McGoverniks." He got derailed, but now he and his pious friends are back in full cry, messing with our psyches and excluding themselves from the rules they demand others follow. They'll eventually do themselves in, but will they do us in first?

I should have mentioned that what I posted about the BBC documentary on the Nightmare was posted there at indymedia by Paul K. Jamieson, not me....but he is a friend and I met him because I liked his long article on International Clearing House about the NeoCons and their roots in the philosophy taught at the U of Chicago under Leo Strauss, a German philosopher .... he (Paul) wrote this email to me today about my fears that we are entering the real Handmaiden's Tale:
Hey Judi,

serendipiditous to be mentioning that book. Or not... but just before your message came I was on the blower with a buddy who also raised the Handmaid's Tale as a paradigm for what might now take place in the US.

I was saying to my friend that if I was in charge of America I would at once lock up all these phony preachers.

Straight off...

No time wasted.

Al Franken was on the Letterman show last night, and he was talking about Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, and some other right wing kook... and how these characters are true scum bags, yet they preach day and night this "holier than thou" whatsidoodle, that is just plain clap-trap. It's junk....

I was a born-again many many many years ago... when I was about 16.....

Feeling "saved" felt pretty good. Feeling saved and feeling somewhat superior to everyone else felt really good.

It was a strange time. I'm glad I went through it. Cos, now I understand to a degree how the theatre works...

I think that there has to be an element of sadism or masochism involved. Voluntarily enslaving oneself to a mythos. Which might not be too bad if the light was pure, the direction straight, and the principles plain.... but, once preachers, and those televangelists, and 700 Club wankers get a hold of it the message is lost....

I mean, how can so many people forget Abu Ghraib? The lies that took America into war? The Valerie Plame case? The un-ending lies and deceit of this administration?

But, they voted....

There was something very sinister (for me) in the big "W" over some large Repubican do. This big "W." Kind of creepy. It has a runic quality to it... sort of similar to the VW runic glyph... Short track to being a swastika, if you know what I mean. It's kind of creepy. I could see that "W" becoming a symbol of the new fascist America...

Oh well, it'll be fun to watch the next four years I guess to see how it all turns out....

I was saying to my friend that this is the same nation that only thirty five years ago put a man on the moon... I can see a time coming soon when that will be erased from the text books.... that somehow space travel will be seen as heresy and "devil's work."

Although, if you watch that BBC Doc I linked to you, they make the case there that the loony Islamic radicals wanted to keep the science and technology, just rule the country in accordance to the Koran.

SO, that is what is going to happen in America. Keep the science, rule by the Bible.

Scary.... Pregnant girls will be taking "sight-seeing" trips to Canada.... and so forth... Oh my God....

Do I think abortion is right? I have no opinion on it.... It's got nothing to do with me as a man.... I think that it's a person's right to be able to choose....

And that's another thing that is scaring me about this RED MENACE.... pundits on CNN talking about the demise of the Democratic Party.... its coming irrelevance...

The one party system.... And from that comes this freaky gloating by the religious right... this inferiority complex bubbling to the top.... I mean, this is Auto de Fe, and the Grand Inquisition, and all that good stuff.... Gays burnt at the stake and what not....

The principles of modern democratic thought means that the government doesn't grant rights, but rather protects the rights of it's citizenry. Especially the minorities...

The majority can easily sweep aside the rights of the minority.... but it is the role of wise government to ensure that the rights of the minority groups stay protected.

This will be something to watch in the coming years....

Maybe Bush will create a Morality Secretary and put Ashcroft in charge of that.

Then in Fallujah, the AFP reports that US Marines are listening to Evangelical Heavy Metal music, receiving baptisms, and are readying themselves with Christ to attack the Moslem Holy City of Fallujah..... sounds like something right out of the f**king Crusades....

Last night on NBC there was a clip of a tearful Marine speaking at a memorial service outside Fallujah for a fallen comrade... the Marine said, "He would have wanted us to flatten that town for what those bastards did to him...."

That's the spirit! One dead invader= one flattened town. Just like the Nazis at Lidice and Oradour. Towns erased from the map......

Well, happy thoughts, eh?

be,

PKJ

Sheesus! Let's not drown in fear, OK? I agree wholeheartedly with the boycott/credit union idea. Is there some aspect of the US chart (Venus?) that represents the health of the ecomony, and if so, is there any Uranus action going on that could be construed as the effect of a massive boycott?

I know. But I'm trying. (Very trying! Go ahead, say it.)

Lucy,
Please keep us informed about the comprehensive list of companies to boycott, I'm ready to make some silent dollar noise!

List so far for those who haven't seen it:

BOYTCOTT THESE COMPANIES

Altria, formerly Philip Morris.
AT&T
Microsoft
UPS (Use DHL! or USPS)
MBNA
Citigroup
Pfizer
FED X
Bristol Myers Squib
Glaxo Smith Kline
Wal Mart (Go to TARGET!)
General Electric
Exxon Mobil
AOL Time Warner
Anheuser Busch
Chevron-Texaco
Pepsico
Schering Plough
Archer Daniels Midland
Wyeth
Alticor
American Airlines
Ford Motor Company
BP Amoco

*Walt Disney - probably is a democratic supporter - founder was gay and hold "gay days" at the theme parks.

Unfortunately, what we need is a sexy, eloquent candidate. Someone who can turn a pretty phrase that nails it precisely. Someone who can tell a good joke or two at the beginning of his talk. Obama is not yet ready for prime time. He needs a few terms of seasoning.

Someone who isn't afraid to go up against Rove.

And we need a brilliant strategist of our own. Not Schrum, who keeps losing. And the strategy needs to start soon to begin discrediting Bush and his minions. We need a guerilla war, with very strategic battles that we know we can win. Pick one politician, maybe Delay or Frist, and go after them with all kinds of historical evidence or innuendo. It has to be carefully planned enough to ruin them, one at a time. Or maybe hit on one of Bush's cabinet picks. In a successful guerilla war, we pick a small battle that we know we can win, that will hurt them, that is unexpected but deadly.

One last thing before I go and eat 4 packages of Yodels. While part of me wants like hell to fight and boycott and raise hell, I have to admit that another part of me is scared to death and researching Toronto. Saturn on Moon now makes me feel tired and scared in between spurts of rebellion. I hope the latter wins out.
I know this is pointless information, but what the hell.

Sunday 7th November 2004 :
Growing Collection of Vote Fraud links: ATTN Global Media

http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=4194

Nancy, the tone I'm picking up here is that we're ALL in fighting spirit. THAT is the silver-lining from this mess.

BTW, in NYC today, a man from Georgia came to the World Trade Center and fatally shot himself--he was distraught about **'s win(fraud). WE ASTROWORDLERS, on the other hand, will be far, far more positive with our energy, and we'll bring about change.

"A pretty candidate, someone who can turn a pretty phrase"

You are soooooooo right Nancy, so right.

Early lines on Bush's next cabinet
At Camp David, the president weighed what could be a slow but sweeping
shuffle. By Linda Feldmann
http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/1108/p01s01-uspo.html?s=hns

US heading into major urban assault in Iraq
More than 10,000 US forces are poised to attack and occupy the rebel
operations base of Fallujah. By Scott Peterson
http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/1108/p01s02-woiq.html?s=hns

High stakes of taking Fallujah
The impending attack could decentralize the Iraqi insurgency and
increase the risk of violence during elections. By Dan Murphy
http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/1108/p01s03-woiq.html?s=hns

Arizona as the new canvas for exurban mega growth
The southwestern state is home to a population surge second only to
Nevada's in percentage growth. By Daniel B. Wood
http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/1108/p01s04-ussc.html?s=hns

Lucy,
Toronto is just lovely, but if you are over 50 years old Canada does not want you . . .If you are under 50 years old there is a pretty good chance they'll let you in especially if you have some skill needed to grow their economy. . . .or a bundle of cash!

Everything that motivates the Republican Party at this Point in History is Based on Racism---Starting with women, gays, minortites and the list goes on and on.

(What a crock)
Bush to Seek Gay-Marriage Ban in New Term -Aide Accounces

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Bush (news - web sites) will renew a quest in his second term for a constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriage as essential to a "hopeful and decent" society, his top political aide said on Sunday.

Bush's call for a constitutional ban on gay marriages failed last year in Congress, but his position was seen as a key factor motivating Christian conservatives concerned about "moral values" to turn out in large numbers and help supply Bush with a winning margin in last week's election.

Michael Mandville 11/03/04

http://www.michaelmandeville.com/earthmonitor/ecbulletins/2004/ecb_Nov_3_04.htm

Lucy...fear is lack of information...be sure to check out wv's post above...Joe Firmage is back and making noise....

and Pat C...on Arizona...when I moved to AZ in 1971, it was then the fastest growing place to move to in the US. but only about 800K people then. There weren't even sidewalks in a lot of Phoenix itself. And it was firmly Republican. Not much has changed except that the shopping there is TERRIFIC and they've got more sidewalks...and a baseball and football team.

Judi Gemini,

If you want terrific shopping and a strong Democratic community, come to NYC! The shopping is amazing and there are Democrats and anti-Bush signs, t-shirts and sidewalk chalk drawings EVERYWHERE!!!!!!!

:-)

Millions of people are already boycotting & have/are stripping their daily lives to sustainable, dear Seestas! You will not be alone. ;O) YOU GO!

You need to see this....I am reposting this, as I have now started watching it....:
Here is the third and final installment of the chilling and somewhat liberating BBC documentary series "The Power of Nightmares."

http://dc.indymedia.org/media/all/display/21750/index.php

Jonathan...I live in South San Francisco now....and I love NYC...my ex lives and works there. Thanks, it is the greatest of cities!

can someone help me out....I don't know how or where on DU to post the BBC Power of Nightmares video....can someone do it?

Here is the third and final installment of the chilling and somewhat liberating BBC documentary series "The Power of Nightmares." People need to hear and see this....the LIES, the LIES perpertrated...unbelieveable! Outrage!

http://dc.indymedia.org/media/all/display/21750/index.php

If you want terrific shopping and a strong Democratic community, come to NYC! The shopping is amazing and there are Democrats and anti-Bush signs, t-shirts and sidewalk chalk drawings EVERYWHERE!!!!!!!

_______________________

YEE HAH - I want to go to New York!
You are so lucky to be among intelligence.

History on the Machines

http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0210/S00044.htm

I'm about to burst my buttons, I'm so happy. The Jefferson quote that Mrs Edwards used on DU is from a book by a long time Bklyn book buddy, Richard Bernestein. I emailed him the link to DU, he is shocked.
We had a booksigning together in June, a very odd couple indeed but it worked at a local street fair in outside the Bklyn neighborhood bookstore he works at.

The Scotsman Monday November 8

'Anything goes' philosophy must end

THE leader of the Catholic Church in Scotland, Cardinal Keith O’Brien, has accused politicians and the media of "undermining the morality of a generation".

In a hard-hitting sermon delivered yesterday, Cardinal O’Brien said neither the political nor media elites reflected the values held by most Scots and risked casting young people "adrift on a sea of moral relativism, where an ‘anything goes’ philosophy prevails".

Speaking at St John’s Catholic Church to mark the 20th anniversary of the African-Scottish links with the Portobello area of Edinburgh, the outspoken cardinal called for a return to Christian moral values and appealed to parents to demand that the Scottish Executive pilot abstinence-based approaches to sexual health and to fight against its forthcoming sexual health policy.

Calling for a return to "basic Christian values", the cardinal said that Scotland should follow the lead of America in placing morality at the top of the political agenda. ... ..

http://news.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=1288652004

HA!!!

http://www.ohiocitizen.org/moneypolitics/2004/blackwellletter.html

November 5, 2004

J. Kenneth Blackwell
Ohio Secretary of State
180 E. Broad St. 16th Floor
Columbus, OH 43215

Dear Mr. Secretary:

Ohio Citizen Action, as a matter of board policy, does not endorse or otherwise support candidates, directly or indirectly. We have a big interest in this election however: the voting rights of our 100,000 members and all Ohioans.

President George Bush and Senator John Kerry are acting as though they have the authority to decide who won by mutual agreement. They are, of course, wrong: there is no official count yet.

Accordingly, I hope you can quickly answer the following questions:

Yesterday's Columbus Dispatch attributed to your office the figure of 92,672 ballots uncounted, not including provisional and late-arriving absentee, military and overseas votes.

How many ballots have undervotes or overvotes or are otherwise uncounted in each county?

When will a database of such uncounted ballots by precinct be available?

Have you issued instructions to the county boards of elections on the disposition of these ballots?

What is your plan to check the 92,672 uncounted ballots to confirm that the precinct-level or county-level decisions to ignore them were proper and to remedy it if not?

Improper discarding of ballots can come from simple mistakes, confusion or incompetence; it does not necessarily involve a pattern of bias or a conspiracy. The consequence for the voter is the same whatever the origin of the error.

Does your plan for checking both the 155,428 provisional ballots and the 92,672 other uncounted ballots include direct oversight by the media and citizens so that all Ohioans can be certain that Tuesday's balloting was fair?

On Wednesday, you reported to White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card that President Bush's lead was "statistically insurmountable" considering the number of provisional ballots outstanding. Did your calculations include the 92,672 ballots mentioned above, and late-arriving absentee, military, and other overseas votes?

If not, why not? And would the lead have been insurmountable had you included them? Reportedly, the military and other overseas ballots are not expected to exceed 10,000. If 14% of provisional ballots were disallowed, as happened in Ohio in 2000, then the number of countable provisionals would be about 133,668. Some of the other uncounted ballots would be disallowed as well, of course, but there is no reliable rule of thumb for estimating how many.

133,668 provisionals + 10,000 (military and overseas) + unknown number of late absentees + 92,672 (other) = at least 236,340 ballots.

If Senator Kerry received 78% of these votes, with President Bush receiving the balance, Kerry's vote total would be 2,846,372 and Bush's would be 2,845,778. Thus, the outcome would be changed.

It is not possible to assess the likelihood of Kerry receiving this proportion of the outstanding votes, since -- as Florida demonstrated -- vote errors can be geographically concentrated, creating a considerable shift in results. That is why a precinct-level database will be helpful.

And I'm sure there are ways to improve on these estimates.

It is clear, however, that the vote difference between the top two candidates is "statistically insurmountable" only if you fail to examine carefully these 92,672 uncounted votes to make sure no one was unfairly discounted.
I look forward to your reply.

With thanks,

Sandy Buchanan
Executive Director

bhakti...you wrote: The Jefferson quote that Mrs Edwards used on DU is from a book by a long time Bklyn book buddy, Richard Bernestein.....Is this the correct spelling for Bernestein? or is it Bernstein? I also have a friend from Brooklyn named Bernstein and he has several brothers (an opera singer, a photographer for the NBA, and one other I can't think of, plus his sister DeeDee Conn, the actress who played Rizzo (spelling?) in "Grease"...) My friend is Bradley Bernstein, who is a psychologist. I know one of his brothers is named Richard.

Some guy briefly posted here yesterday about W having good karma, being a good president, and that we are doing astrology without considering the spiritual aspects. I want to comment on that by saying:

Who says "winning" an election is good Karma???

He has become the most hated person in the world and in the US.

His health is declining rapidly due to his "winning" the Presidency.

Is Karma rewarding you if it allows you to be the person to kill 100,000 people for no reason?...thus setting you up for a shitty next life.

Is Karma rewarding you if it allows you to be the person to keep millions of poverty stricken Americans in a constant hopeless state of poverty by refusing to raise the minimun wage?

Is Karma rewarding you if it allows you to be the person to gut social security, the American golden years, thus creating a vast instability and uncertain future for Americas elderly?

Does Karma reward billionaires who's wealth came from lies and dirty deals?

Is being a billionare good Karma? Or does it hold you responsible for not sharing the wealth?

I'm sure we all know there will be a Karmic debt to pay by the Bush administration and Bush himself. They can't walk away from the blood on their hands. It may not happen in this life, but it will happen.

PS...everyone go download the BBC documentary and see if this doesn't change your basic fear to basic incredulity at how we were conned by the NeoCons

...but I warn you, the indy page is the WORST designed site I've ever seen....you will see a narrow top headline and nothing else....you literally have to scroll down the empty page until you see the download. But it downloads easily....I am kicking butt on this.....do it now!

Hiya Jo,

In thinking about it, I agree with you that we just cannot discuss religion and politics with many people, especially the right wing. (As a matter of fact, we rented "Saved" last night - it is very simplistic but hysterical and sure made me feel better by exposing evangelicals).

My point was that the best choice right now is to appeal to the common human core of all of mankind by treating everyone with respect and even reaching out to help. This is the only way to overcome this division.

Of course, it can not always be overcome, in which case it might be best to do our work quietly when possible so as not to give away our plans, and to educate the young and those who would be educated.

I found Michael Mandville's site very interesting, as always, wv.

Meanwhile, here's a couple of very good sites:
http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/m/p/mpm265/election/chart.htm (voter iq by state)

www.senderberl.com (I think this would be the site; the info was pasted directly onto the info)

Judy Oregon, what makes you think millions are already boycotting? Is anyone coordinating this? Are you just speaking generally, as in we're all just going to walk away from the old, dying dinosaur of American corporatism and militarism (as Michael Mandeville advises)?

about sendeberl.com, what I meant was that the information from the site was pasted directly onto the email I rec'd. This site is a good way for explaining the voter hacking (and I do mean hacking).

I guess the senderberg explanation concerns an element of "the shadow government."

Wow, do I have some catching up to do. Thanks Judi Gem for mentioning Sally's article! I have to go back and read it. Nancy's article was at top so that's the one I read. Great job Nancy...I'm sure that is as usual.

Some thoughts (I am also recovering from flu bug) -- hope y'all don't mind that I share:

Since I had deleted my email from DNC in my fit of pique over The Tragedy, I went to their site and sent in a long list of "feedback" for them, including (but not limited to) some version of the following [which are not all original thoughts but "stolen" good ideas that I wanted to help add oomph to -- but Karl Rove was mine! Til Nancy nailed it here, that is....;) ]

-1)Get a new DNC Chair, one who is articulate, charismatic, able to think on his/her feet, and genuinely passionate about issues (or at the very least able to appear so)

2)Eliminate black box voting!!!!!!!!!!

3) Count every vote BEFORE allowing a Presidential candidate to be announced winner --

4) Neutralize Rove. (Aside to aw -Although I have an evil desire for that to be taken a certain way, in this context...) That means being savvy to his tactics AND finding our own genius, skilled in the science of persuasion and able to carry out a behavior modification campaign in order to win over those who are now being misled by the Republicans

I am buoyed by the activism here, and comforted by the fact that in spite of our anger/grief we share a spiritual outlook that truly seeks the "higher good".

I too am interested in watching for any resurgence in eugenics. I believe that as a community we should start trumpeting what this means NOW, before they have a chance to "shape" the issue.

And finally - Nancy, I agree 100% with your strategy of hitting them with a guerilla attack on the Rove front (using shorthand here cuz I've got some other stuff to attend to.)

Lucy, thanks a gazillion for the research you are doing on boycott. Here's a link where you can investigate senior-friendly Mexico http://www.escapeartist.com/immigration/immigration.htm

Sally (was it you or Nancy? Now my head is feeling stuffed again and I'm having trouble thinking clearly) - I've also been having a vision of us standing in mourning, wearing black arm bands.

Oh gosh - can't acknowledge every single one of you in this post as it is getting too darn long. But EVERYBODY here just ROCKS!! Thanks for accepting me as a part of this awesome community.

Blessings, KM

http://www.truthout.org/rblog.shtml

A Tiny Voice

Thanks Jo,
You've saved me from reading thru 46 pages of the Constitution tonight to find where it says that about the taxes. Now I remember hearing it at the Bill of Rights Defense Committee meeting last summer!
Definitely I not up for paying this man's salary!
He's taking over what I have left of my life.
I e-mailed the WH & Senators last year about the Hagar Dr, Man; we kept him out of the FDA for a little while........... & now we have to do it again??????? Same with the FCC regulations.
Nexxus,
Glad I gave you some upbeat news.
Sally you are right there are some ignorant people in this country. I wonder if my generation was the last to get a college equivelent, public high school education. Or was it that 1/4 of the class was made up of,
interred Japanese American's kids & East European war refuges, who were the best hope for their families to rise up again? Our 1956 graduation program was titled "Diversity"!
Nothing makes me more furious than someone with those letters after their name flaunting their bad english and inability to think, while drawing 3 figure incomes!
ALL of you, in addition to the economic boycott, think of ways in which you can share values with the children within your reach.
Volunteer for after school programs..........start a reading program at the library, make & give out cookies on Fri. to all the latchkey kids in the neighborhood! Share your wisdom...........
PQOP

Letter of congratulations from Jacques Chirac, President of the Republic to George W. Bush upon his re-election as President of the United States of America.

Paris, November 3, 2004

Mr. President, [handwritten:] Dear George,

Both personally and on behalf of France, I would like to express my most sincere congratulations upon your re-election as president of the United States of America .

It is my hope that your second term will provide an opportunity to strengthen the French-American friendship. The destiny of our two peoples has been intimately connected since the earliest days of American independence. The ceremonies marking the 60th anniversary of D-Day were a stunning tribute to the American soldiers who fell on the beaches of Normandy for our freedom and that of Europe .

It is in a spirit of dialogue, mutual esteem and respect that we must continue to expand our cooperation, our common battle against terrorism and our joint efforts to promote freedom and democracy.

We will not be able to find satisfactory answers to the many challenges we are facing today without a close transatlantic partnership. The United States and France are called upon to play an essential role in that regard. We share the same ambition of guaranteeing peace, security and prosperity, in a spirit of solidarity, for the greatest number of people. I am convinced that together we can succeed.

Please accept, Mr. President, the expression of my highest consideration [handwritten:] and my warmest regards.

Jacques Chirac

His Excellency Mr. George W. Bush President of the United States of America

and this

http://www.princeton.edu/~rvdb/JAVA/election2004/purple_america_2004b.gif

A pruple America seems more realistic.

Hi judi g,
It's actually spelled Bernstein.
But I do not think it's the guy you might know. Will ask next time I run into him.

KM sorry you are feeling so rotton, I think PatC might have the same thing as well. It was Pallas 18 who suggested black arm band protest. Just stand in front of the WH quietly.

Several years ago I saw a Mash episode and they were having a Tug-of-War. Hawkeye, Radar, and Trapper were on one side with several other people. Major Burns and Hot Lips were of course on the other side with their group of people. The Hawkeye group had pulled the other group close to the mud and Major Burns group was pulling back. Hawkeye and Trapper looked at each other and everyone on their side and then they just let go while the other side fell forward into the mud.

I've thought and thought about that for a year now, what if we just all let go. We already know the deck is way stacked against us, so we just stop paying for things except with cash, find small shops, look on the internet for gifts in the "blue" states, put our money in small local banks or credit unions, stop watching their programs, go on with our lives and ignore them. Wonder how far that kind of protest would go.

I just read about a labor organizer, Joe Hill, who in 1915 was executed on some kind of trumped up charge in Utah, and the night before he was put to death (murdered) he said "don't mourn for me, organize!!!!"

I like your idea too, Sally. Have been trying to move to local business for past few years anyway.

Wonder if we can get enough numbers on board? (We can do it anyway as someone above mentioned).

My partner has mentioned concern for my involvement. He made me feel, for the first time, afraid of what could happen for just speaking my mind.

Well, I'm not cowering. Glad we here have one another.

All take extra care. Sending light and blessings,

KM

Actually, I think it will be fairly easy to disconnect from them emotionally. I'm doing it already, my level of disgust is that high, and this will facilitate doing it economically. I want nothing to do with this government and I also want little to do with mainstream culture (except the entertainment industry). I heard Andy Rooney tonight on 60" say that 1/2 the media liked Kerry and the other half hated Bush. But he ended by saying that we should all get behind the *resident now, as he plans on doing. Well, Andy Rooney, not on your life!

http://ustogether.org/Florida_Election.htm

TAKE ACTION:STAND AGAINST A BLOODBATH IN FALLUJAH
"Top U.S. Marine in Iraq Calls for Massacre in Fallujah"

The U.S. has surrounded the sealed off City of Fallujah and is preparing to launch the complete destruction of the city. They have told the people that any traffic on the street is now subject to attack and any males between the ages of 15 and 55 who go outside will automatically be killed by the U.S. soldiers. The U.S. is terrorizing and bombing the citizens of Fallujah every night, recently targeting and fully destroying its emergency hospital, collapsing homes around families, dismembering children. Many of the 300,000 population have fled for their lives, everything they have ever had left behind or destroyed.

Now the top enlisted Marine in Iraq has called on his troops to commit war crimes against the tens of thousands of remaining residents and what stands of that proud and historic city. Referring to the assault on the ancient citadel city of Hue, destroyed by U.S. soldiers in Vietnam, Sgt. Maj. Carlton W. Kent told an assembled group of 2,500 Marines in a "pep-talk": "You're all in the process of making history. This is another Hue city in the making. I have no doubt, if we do get the word, that each and every one of you is going to do what you have always done - kick some butt." (AP, November 7 2004)

The U.S. moved to reoccupy Hue after Vietnamese forces has liberated it in the Tet Offensive of 1968. The Under Secretary of the Air Force, Townsend Hoopes, described the results of the U.S. assault on Hue in a March 1968 memo as leaving "a devastated and prostrate city. Eighty per cent of the buildings had been reduced to rubble, and in the smashed ruins lay 2,000 dead civilians... Three quarters of the city’s people were rendered homeless and looting was widespread, members of the ARVN [U.S. backed South Vietnamese troops] being the worst offenders." (Noam Chomsky's forward to the papers of the 1967 International War Crimes in Vietnam Tribunal)

The resistance in Iraq is carrying out coordinated efforts across the country to dislodge U.S. occupation forces with attacks on police stations and other targeted representatives of U.S. puppet installations. In recent days many U.S. soldiers have been badly wounded and there is more to come as the U.S. military leadership predicts the most bloody urban fighting since Vietnam. The U.S. is using all of its firepower, night vision, high-tech weaponry, and bombing capacity against defenseless civilians as well as resistance fighters primarily armed with Kalishnakov rifles and improvised explosive devises. With all this military might, the U.S. is unable to stop the Iraqi people from fighting for their national sovereignty. The U.S. installed "prime minister" of Iraq has today declared "martial law in Iraq" for the next two months aggregating even greater unilateral authority.

This is no time for anti-war and progressive people in the U.S. to "mourn," dwell and lament on the failure of the Democratic Party candidate to defeat the Republican Party candidate, at least not those who are really committed to ending this criminal war and securing justice at home. If nothing else, we all know that if Kerry was President-elect, nothing would be different for the people of Iraq right now. Kerry has not condemned the bombings of Falluljah at any point, nor the attacks on the Iraqi people, nor the use of U.S. soldiers as cannon fodder in this war of aggression and conquest.

Now the people of Fallujah wait for the next attack, and the U.S. soldiers wait for their orders to carry out actions that they will have to reconcile for the rest of their lives, if they survive.

VoteNoWar members across the U.S. are planning emergency demonstrations the DAY AFTER a reinvasion of Fallujah. We call on other committed organizations and activists to also initiate such actions, at local federal buildings, recruiting stations, or traditional public assembly locations.

For gods sake, would someone on this web site PLEASE watch the BBC special I posted....The Power of Nightmares....it can change the conversation here. I have recopied the URL from Internet Explorer instead of my iCab browser, and I am reposting it again...it is an hours long, but I hope you can find the time to do this.
http://dc.indymedia.org/media/all/display/21750/index.php

CONTACT CAMERON KERRY to report incidents of voter fraud at - CKerry@Mintz.com

http://www.counterpunch.org/tripp11042004.html

http://www.ucomics.com/patoliphant/2004/11/03/
 

http://newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm

January 26, 1998

The Honorable William J. Clinton
President of the United States
Washington, DC

Dear Mr. President:

We are writing you because we are convinced that current American policy toward Iraq is not succeeding, and that we may soon face a threat in the Middle East more serious than any we have known since the end of the Cold War.  In your upcoming State of the Union Address, you have an opportunity to chart a clear and determined course for meeting this threat.  We urge you to seize that opportunity, and to enunciate a new strategy that would secure the interests of the U.S. and our friends and allies around the world.  That strategy should aim, above all, at the removal of Saddam Hussein’s regime from power.  We stand ready to offer our full support in this difficult but necessary endeavor.

The policy of “containment” of Saddam Hussein has been steadily eroding over the past several months.  As recent events have demonstrated, we can no longer depend on our partners in the Gulf War coalition to continue to uphold the sanctions or to punish Saddam when he blocks or evades UN inspections.  Our ability to ensure that Saddam Hussein is not producing weapons of mass destruction, therefore, has substantially diminished.  Even if full inspections were eventually to resume, which now seems highly unlikely, experience has shown that it is difficult if not impossible to monitor Iraq’s chemical and biological weapons production.  The lengthy period during which the inspectors will have been unable to enter many Iraqi facilities has made it even less likely that they will be able to uncover all of Saddam’s secrets.  As a result, in the not-too-distant future we will be unable to determine with any reasonable level of confidence whether Iraq does or does not possess such weapons.

Such uncertainty will, by itself, have a seriously destabilizing effect on the entire Middle East.  It hardly needs to be added that if Saddam does acquire the capability to deliver weapons of mass destruction, as he is almost certain to do if we continue along the present course, the safety of American troops in the region, of our friends and allies like Israel and the moderate Arab states, and a significant portion of the world’s supply of oil will all be put at hazard.  As you have rightly declared, Mr. President, the security of the world in the first part of the 21st century will be determined largely by how we handle this threat.

Given the magnitude of the threat, the current policy, which depends for its success upon the steadfastness of our coalition partners and upon the cooperation of Saddam Hussein, is dangerously inadequate. The only acceptable strategy is one that eliminates the possibility that Iraq will be able to use or threaten to use weapons of mass destruction. In the near term, this means a willingness to undertake military action as diplomacy is clearly failing. In the long term, it means removing Saddam Hussein and his regime from power. That now needs to become the aim of American foreign policy.

We urge you to articulate this aim, and to turn your Administration's attention to implementing a strategy for removing Saddam's regime from power. This will require a full complement of diplomatic, political and military efforts. Although we are fully aware of the dangers and difficulties in implementing this policy, we believe the dangers of failing to do so are far greater. We believe the U.S. has the authority under existing UN resolutions to take the necessary steps, including military steps, to protect our vital interests in the Gulf. In any case, American policy cannot continue to be crippled by a misguided insistence on unanimity in the UN Security Council.

We urge you to act decisively. If you act now to end the threat of weapons of mass destruction against the U.S. or its allies, you will be acting in the most fundamental national security interests of the country. If we accept a course of weakness and drift, we put our interests and our future at risk.

Sincerely,

Elliott Abrams    Richard L. Armitage    William J. Bennett

Jeffrey Bergner    John Bolton    Paula Dobriansky

Francis Fukuyama    Robert Kagan    Zalmay Khalilzad

William Kristol    Richard Perle    Peter W. Rodman

Donald Rumsfeld    William Schneider, Jr.    Vin Weber

Paul Wolfowitz    R. James Woolsey    Robert B. Zoellick

Get your "Not Me" black armband:

http://www.conservativefighter.blogspot.com/

Bloggermann - Keith Olbermann actually is discussing the voting problems and tells Kerry not to leave the country. This may be the start to the media picking up the voter irregularities issue.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6210240

wv, thanks so much for the Herbst newsletter post. This part especially interested me:

"In January, Chiron opposes Bush’s Saturn, and then, over the rest of 2005, it sits on Bush’s Descendant. Chiron’s action is to bring to awareness unhealed wounds and other long-term unconscious disturbances in our lives. It does this by ripping open the abscessed parts of our psyches, revealing to us what we have ignored, often through a painful confrontation with our own misunderstandings. For George W. Bush, these transits indicate that he may be forced to deal with two of his personal failings: 1. the refusal to face reality (Saturn), and 2. The stubborn unwillingness to listen to contrary viewpoints (Descendant)."

I currently have trans Saturn opp my natal Chiron while conj prog Venus on the VX. Let me tell you all, its a douzy. Maybe because its combined with my current trans Pluto in the 1st house, but I feel like I am being turned inside out on the inside, lots of darkness, dark feelings, lots of tears, and for now a very pessimistic view of the world and what being human is.

Ah well, life always goes on. Judi Gem, thanks so much for the link to TPON from the BBC. I have wanted to see this since I first heard of its existence.

And like I have posted before, thank you all for being here. I swear this site is my link to staying sane.

Question:

If anyone has already asked this sorry, I just jumped to the end to post this. My taxes are taken out of my paycheck each week. How could you not pay them? The company I work for, as well as everyone else I know who works, takes them out every week. By the way, from some research I have done from way back, it is my understanding that payroll taxes are not what the law defines as income tax. It's what you receive from stocks, bonds stuff like that. I could be wrong.

Patricia

Patricia,

Here's a link that will give you a discussion about 'not paying taxes' and link you to other sites where you can books on the topic, etc.

I knew folks in the 80s when I was working and living in New Mexico who were underground since the Viet Name war. Many did not pay taxes. I do not advocate anything for concerns John Ashcroft is on my trail. However, if you want to research this topic and other methods of resistance, just google it up...

Patricia,

Sorry, Here's the link!

http://www.strike-the-root.com/cgi-local/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=freedom;action=display;num=1077158697

Don't teach hate in the name of God..

http://www.independent.co.uk/580532.html

From the Daykeeper:

Saturn turns retrograde on November 8 at 28 Cancer. Saturn is concerned with social institutions, and it’s time now to re-evaluate our responsibilities, our social niche, and what we expect from government. Saturn is also about organization in general, and we have four months to restructure our lives.

Creating boundaries, and aiding in taking form and shape, are also functions of Saturn. We may develop a new focus on our boundaries, and our psychic protection, during the four months when Saturn is retrograde. This is especially likely with Saturn in vulnerable Cancer. New modes of defense, for ourselves and for nations, will be developing.

Saturn is turning retrograde exactly opposite the U.S. Pluto, which is at 28 Capricorn. This means that there will be pressure on the U.S. power structure during the entire four-month retrograde journey—and in fact until Saturn returns to 28 Cancer in the last week of June 2005. Deep, lasting, and disciplined re-organization will occur during those seven months.

Assertive action, and likely the military, will figure strongly in this re-organization, for Saturn is squaring Mars when it turns retrograde on November 8. We will see some manifestation of the changes when Saturn turns direct on March 21, 2005. Then in April we experience the two eclipses which are complimentary to the autumn election eclipses.

This entire journey of Saturn retracing his space in Cancer, lasts from mid-August 2004 to the end of June 2005. All degrees from 21 Cancer to 28 Cancer will be touched three times by Saturn at some time during those 10 months.

One planet clearly in Saturn’s path is the U.S. Mercury. It could be a long time before this election is fully decided, as Saturn goes over the U.S. Mercury three times. The first time was two months ago, in the second week of September. Bombing of both Palestine and Iraq escalated dramatically that week. The second time, with Saturn retrograde, will be in early January. And the final time, with Saturn direct, will be in early June 2005.

http://www.daykeeperjournal.com/retrogrades.shtml

Uh oh.........
snip--
As tens of thousands of people come to Washington to watch the Jan. 20 swearing in, the city will be filled with military personnel, FBI agents
in full SWAT outfitting, snipers on rooftops and scores of bomb-detecting dogs.

Air defenses have been strengthened to prevent intruder aircraft, and sensors will be deployed throughout the area to detect biological,
chemical or radiological material.

About 2,000 out-of-town officers will help with security and traffic details. Undercover officers will work the crowds, and D.C. police officers will be posted every six to eight feet along the parade route.

Plans call for sturdier barriers and more checkpoints and metal detectors along the parade route than in previous years. Officials also
are setting up a higher-security ticketing and credentialing system for some events, to prevent people from using counterfeit materials to gain
access to balls and more restricted areas.

"There will be far more security and more police than four years ago," said Terrance Gainer, chief of the U.S. Capitol Police, the agency charged with protecting the Capitol, where Bush will be sworn in. "Everything has changed since 9/11, so there is a different context in which this inauguration is being planned."

Law-enforcement authorities do not have specific information that al-Qaida or another terrorist group is targeting the inauguration. But
the events will attract political leaders from throughout the country and the world and will be staged outside symbols of American democracy,
officials said.

"The inaugural is a rich, symbolic, highly visible target," said Jim Rice, the FBI supervisory special agent who oversees the National Capital Response Squad. Rice's squad works closely with the Joint Terrorism Task Force in the FBI's Washington field office to monitor and respond to terrorist threats.

This will be the first inauguration since creation of the Homeland Security Department, which also is a central part of the security
planning.

The Secret Service is the lead agency for the inauguration because the ceremony and celebrations are considered a National Special Security Event, a designation that brings with it heightened federal planning and resources.

Demonstrations are likely to be a concern of police this time. Organizers said they will bring thousands into the city again to protest Bush's second inauguration.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002084503_inaugural07.html

Motion to impeach Blair accuses him of "gross misconduct"

LONDON, (AFP) - A draft of a parliamentary motion to impeach PM Tony Blair accuses him of "gross misconduct" over the US-led invasion of Iraq, a newspaper said. The Independent on Sun said it had obtained the text of the motion from a cross-party group of MPs, adding it wld be offered for debate soon after the new parliamentary session begins later this month.

The motion calls for a select committee to investigate the "conduct of the PM in relation to the war in Iraq," the daily said. The committee wld draw up the "articles of impeachment" & a panel of law lords wld judge whether Blair deliberately misled the nation into waging an unlawful war, it said. A guilty verdict wld see Blair arrested by parliament's Sergeant at Arms.

Michael Martin, the speaker in the Hse of Commons, must rule on whether the motion can be proposed for debate on the floor of the house.

The newspaper said that although Blair had little chance of losing an impeachment vote, the very fact it was held wld represent a serious humiliation. Downing St has ordered officials to compile a case against the motion on the grounds it is obsolete.

Adam Pryce, the Welsh nationalist Plaid Cymru MP who began the campaign to impeach Blair, said he hoped 30-50 members of parliament wld support the motion, according to the Independent. So far 23 have signed up. The text calls for a committee to investigate & report to the hse on Blair's conduct regarding the war & to consider the following:

* the conclusions of the US Iraq Survey Grp which reported that in Mar 2003, when the invasion was launched, Iraq did not possess WMD & had been essentially free of them since the mid-1990s.

* the opinion of UN Sec Gen Kofi Annan that the war was unlawful.

* whether there exist sufficient grounds to impeach... Blair on charges of gross misconduct in his advocacy of the case for war against Iraq & in his conduct of policy in connection with that war." 

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20041107/wl_uk_afp/iraq_britain_politics&e=4

Here it is folks -- the real reason we're in the Middle East.  Either Bush is a true Armageddonist -- or pretending to be one to use the fundamentalist Christians for support.  Either way, it ain't a pretty picture.

WASHINGTON REPORT ON MIDDLE EAST AFFAIRS

http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/1299/9912122.html

DECEMBER 1999, pages 122-124 Books Reviews

Forcing God’s Hand: Why Millions Pray for a Quick Rapture—And the Destruction of Planet Earth

By Grace Halsell, The Whitley Company, 1999, 132 pp., List: $14.95; AET: $9.50.

Reviewed by Andrew I. Killgore

In his poem “The Second Coming,” Irish poet William Butler Yeats contemplates a second coming but is vague about the nature of the divinity we can expect to see at the heralded event. As if to throw off the readers who believe they might have figured out what Yeats had in mind, he concludes with a question, “And what rough beast, its hour came round at last, slouches toward Bethlehem to be born?”

There is no such uncertainty in the minds of “Armageddon theologists” as described by veteran author Grace Halsell in this revealing book. Two of Ms. Halsell’s highly regarded earlier books, Journey to Jerusalem and Prophecy and Politics, have contributed greatly to American public understanding of the Middle East, the Arab-Israeli dispute and Israel’s impact on U.S. domestic politics.

In her disturbing new work Halsell digs deeply into the current, expanding alliance between Christian fundamentalism in the U.S. and the government of the State of Israel. Grace Halsell has made a dozen trips to Israel and twice as a concerned Christian with groups led by TV evangelist Jerry Falwell. In her book she recounts conversations with fellow members of these groups which revealed that they were looking forward to, indeed welcoming, Armageddon, a cataclysmic final battle between the forces of good and evil, described in allegorical terms in the New Testament book of Revelation.

She quotes from Scripture as well as “Armageddonists” who don’t like Jews but fervently support a Jewish state, and from American Jewish Zionists who, even though most know about the true feelings of these Christian extremists’ feelings toward Jews, support the Armageddonists because, “Israel needs all the friends it can get.”

As described by Halsell, the belief system of those expecting their own personal escape through a “Rapture” followed by a violent end of the world is based on individual interpretations of Biblical texts.

John Darby of England promulgated this doctrine. An American preacher, Cyrus Scofield, popularized it in the United States, largely through his Scofield Reference Bible, first published in 1909. In it, he inserts his own interpretations alongside the original Biblical text.

The Darby-Scofield doctrine has more to do with old Hebraic texts than the Sermon on the Mount. It relegates the Church of Jesus Christ to a secondary role.

To understand Halsell’s Forcing God’s Hand, many readers will have to learn a new vocabulary including: Gog, Magog, the Rapture, the Tribulations, the Antichrist, Gomar, the Gog-Magog wars, dispensationalism, and Born Again.

More...

All will have to bow and Heil der Fuhrer... ehh?

My gr grandmother used to say "there's many a slip twixt the cup and the lip." I wouldn't count on the inauguration happenin' 'til it does...

More manpower and military might is spent to protect der Fuhrer every waking minute than is being spent to protect New Yorkers... or any others of us. Perhaps *sh fears only 'his people' ehh...? Knowing more than we about the events of 9/11, ehh?

Well, I won't be going to see the coronation.

Namaste

Subject: #More evidence of voter fraud emerges in Florida

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=201&topic_id=1274&mesg_id=1274

IN FLORIDA of the 36 counties which have a majority of registered
Democrats only 8 of them voted Kerry. 28 went Bush. Not a single county
with a majority of Republican registrations went Kerry. The numbers are
staggering. When you look at voter registrations in the various Florida
counties and then look at the "actual" results, there is simply NO WAY
that something didnt go wrong.

Just one example:
Calhoun County - 8,350 registered voters
82.4% of whom are registered as Democrats. (6,880)
11.9% of whom are registered as Republicans (933)

Actual results?
Kerry - 2,116
Bush - 3,780

And this wasnt even the most egregious example.

I find it VERY hard to believe that assuming 100% repub turnout that 41%
of the registered Democrats in Calhoun county voted Bush.

In op-scan counties, 108,340 more ballots were case Republican than
there were registered republican voters.

Adjusted based on the voter turnout, 612,971 non-republicans voted for
Bush in these counties.

so that's 41% of the democrats voted Bush.

And notice that the 41% of total dems voted Bush across the state is
exactly the same percentage in Calhoun county alone.

http://ustogether.org/Florida_Election.htm
--
Election 2004
The Triumph of the Swill
"The National Government will regard it as its first and foremost
duty to revive in the nation the spirit of unity and cooperation.
It will preserve and defend those basic principles on which our
nation has been built. It regards Christianity as the foundation
of our national morality, and the family as the basis of national
life."
Adolph Hitler, My New World Order,
Proclamation to the German Nation
at Berlin, February 1, 1933

Not dead, in jail, or a slave?  Thank a liberal!
Pay your taxes so the rich don't have to.

http://www.zeppscommentaries.com
For news feed, http://yahoogroups/subscribe/zepps_news
For essays (please contribute!) http:yahoogroups/subscribe/zepps_essays

Arma-geddon Sick of You

World to US as Americans prepare to level Fallujah

Daniel Patrick Welch

11/07/04 "ICH" Bush's Sword of Damocles is poised above the people and city of Fallujah , ready to wreak the pent-up wrath his addled brain thinks his tainted election victory permits. This is the bizarre world-in-a-bubble in which most Americans reside. With a chorus of Onward, Christian Soldiers and a vapid, cheerleading press, the crusade continues unabated, as the world's revulsion continues to grow.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article7240.htm

Wise choice Jo!

From the Herbst piece:

"For bush, these transits indicate that he may be forced to deal with two of his personal failings: 1. the refusal to face reality (Saturn), & 2. The stubborn unwillingness to listen to contrary viewpoints (Descendant)."

Well, yes... & the slight matters of mass omnicide--making Charles Manson look rather like a saint--robbery of several national treasuries, incl the US', & wholesale destruction of the Natural World. I'm truly hoping that "Saturn" might address some of these trifling issues with bushaholic & fellow bumadruggies. That'd be nice.

Disney's founder is a 33rd degree Mason:http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/33rd.htm#Initial%20List%20of%2033rd%20Degree%20Masons
list of right wing supporters: A.
Agape Press
American Express
American Family Association
American Greetings
American Nuclear Energy Council
American Petroleum Institute
Amoco
Amway Corporation
AOL Time Warner

B.
Bell Atlantic Network Services
BellSouth Corporation

C.
Campus Crusade for Christ
Chase Manhattan Bank
Chemical Bank
Chevron
ChoicePoint
Christian Coalition
Christian Financial Concepts
Citicorp/Citibank
Commonwealth Fund
Coors Brewery
Coral Ridge Ministries

D.
Dell
Diebold
Digital Equipment Corporation
Dominoes Pizza
Dow Chemicals

E.
ExxonMobil

G.
General Electric
GTE Corporation

H.
Hallmark
Home Depot

I.
International Christian Media

M.
Manhattan Institute
McDonald's
Merck & Company
Motorola

N.
National Review
NYNEX Corporation

O.
Outback Steakhouse
Overstock.com, Inc.

P.
Pacific Research Institute
Papa John's Pizza
Perry Homes
Pfizer, Inc.
Pharmaceutical Research & Manufacturers of America
Phillip Morris
Prudential Securities

R.
R.J. Reynolds Tobacco
Recycled Greetings

S.
Safeway
Salomon Brothers
Shell Oil Company
Sinclair Broadcasting Group
State Farm Insurance
Sun Microsystems

T.
Tenneco Gas
Texaco

U.
Union Pacific Railroad
UPS

V.
Viacom International

W.
Walmart

the whole world is run by these folks: http://web.archive.org/web/20030825093657/www.thewatcherfiles.com/bloodlines/index.htm

* Motion to impeach Blair accuses him of "gross misconduct"

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20041107/wl_uk_afp/iraq_britain_politics&e=4

"Coronation/full-baloney inauguration" - Another great opportunity for the drama kings to strut n' prance n' wriggle midst their favorite stage props, play dress-up in costumes galore, intone "sacred" scripts, over eat n' drink the best--all before the "lowly ameriCO peasant," who's forced to pay the drama kings' bills. Mmmmm tut-tut-tut...

Ah and with the Reverand Sun Meung Moon to assist no less.

Yea, verily... the "Reverend" sun meung moonie to assist. ;O)

Sally and Morgana you mentioned needing a candidate with charisma who is telegenic to challenge the repugs. Does this have to be a democratic party candidate? I ask because I don't think they the dems have what it takes as a party to lead anyone any further. They failed and I am through with them. Even taking into account voter fraud, the democratic message should have been strong and coherent enough to convince a large percentage of non-evangelicals to vote b*sh out of office.
I have another question I posed earlier for everyone on the forum. If the election should prove fraudulent and reversed do you think Kerry should assume the office and would you feel comfortable with Kerry as president taking into account his post election actions or non-actions as it were? He just gave up! For full disclosure, I admit voting for Kerry to get b*sh out of office; I was a disappointed Dean supporter.

I'm sure this would be appreciated.
http://www.prayersforelizabeth.org/

and this of course
http://www.prayersforelizabeth.org/

and this is cathartic
http://www.counterpunch.org/tripp11042004.html

Oops I meant to post this on the second part of the post.

CONTACT CAMERON KERRY to report incidents of voter fraud at - CKerry@Mintz.com

For gods sake, would someone on this web site PLEASE watch the BBC special I posted....The Power of Nightmares....it can change the conversation here. I have recopied the URL from Internet Explorer instead of my iCab browser, and I am reposting it again...it is an hours long, but I hope you can find the time to do this.
http://dc.indymedia.org/media/all/display/21750/index.php

********************
Judi - I tried to watch it and it didn't work - maybe no one else could either...any advice?

I got only audio. I think if you go to the BBC site, you can view it.

here's a link: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/video1037.htm

Peg, the list of corporations you posted...I assume they are Bush donators; Are they also known for other types of right-wing support?

Soulchild,
Doesn't have to be a leader from the Democrats, I don't think we have one within the party.
On not paying taxes, well I am more afraid of the IRS then I am Asscroft. Not only to they suckoff $5,000.00 monthly in payroll taxes, by the end of the year they want even more!!!! Hell the middleclass supports them all.
Not going peacefully into the night.
I hope to see Blair impeached and Bush tarred and feathered.
I'm also in favor of the United States of Canada. I went to sleep dreaming California was it's own sovereign nation. How sweet was that!

Pandora's Box
or
Be careful what you ask for, you might just get it...

Excerpts from Washington Post articles:"Evangelicals Led GOP Efforts" and "Furor Persists Over Specter Remarks"

According to an Evan-activist :
"The Republican Party was not helpful at all," Cropsey said. "It's not like they were the instigators. They were the Johnny-come-latelies, if anything."

The Bush campaign [Rove and minions] enlisted thousands of religious "team leaders" in its canvassing efforts. According to activists in battleground states, however, Christian groups were often out ahead of the campaign.
Gary Cass was in charge of registration and get-out-the-vote efforts in three Florida counties for Coral Ridge Ministries, the Fort Lauderdale-based broadcasting empire of the Rev. D. James Kennedy. On nights and weekends, he also volunteered for the Bush-Cheney campaign -- and found it far less organized than Coral Ridge's effort.

"I couldn't get answers. I had trouble getting a sign for my yard," he said. "It was a good thing we weren't coordinating with the Republican Party, because there wasn't anybody to cooperate with."

"In battlegrounds such as Ohio, scores of clergy members attended legal sessions explaining how they could talk about the election from the pulpit. Hundreds of churches launched registration drives, thousands of churchgoers registered to vote, and millions of voter guides were distributed by Christian and antiabortion groups.

National religious leaders, and their lawyers, also made a concerted effort to persuade pastors to disregard the warnings of secular groups about what churches can and cannot legally do in the political arena.
Thousands of clergy members gave sermons about the election, and that many went further than they ever had before.

SO, now taking extreme political action into their own hands...

"Christian leaders warned White House aides that the marriage issue was likely to appear on state ballots and be a factor in the presidential election. "The White House guys were kind of resisting it on the grounds that 'We haven't decided what position we want to take on that,' " he said.

Dearie me, getting out of control, perhaps?

Several influential conservative Republicans indicated yesterday that Sen. Arlen Specter (R-Pa.), who is in line to become chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee next year, has not succeeded in tamping down the furor he created last week when he appeared to warn President Bush not to select Supreme Court nominees who oppose abortion rights.

Senator-elect John Thune (R-S.D.), who defeated Senate Minority Leader Thomas A. Daschle (D) in a race that turned in part on stalled judicial nominations, said newly elected members of the GOP's 55-member majority will raise questions with Senate leaders this week about Specter's elevation.

Thune said he was "troubled" by Specter's statements and vowed "there will be some questions asked by those of us who are coming in as freshmen who ran our campaigns built around that very central theme that we need to have good judges on the bench." Thune made the comments in an interview on ABC's "This Week."

Specter's comments were also derided by House Speaker J. Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.) and, most forcefully, by James Dobson, who has been credited with helping to mobilize the vote for Bush as head of the Christian group Focus on the Family.

Specter "is a problem, and he must be derailed," Dobson said on "This Week." Senate offices were swamped with calls about Specter late last week, and the uproar is "not going to go away," Dobson said. "Republican senators know they've got a problem."

Specter himself spent another day trying to explain that his statements Wednesday were not intended as a "warning" to Bush about judicial nominees. Instead, he told CBS's "Face the Nation," he was merely recognizing "a political fact" that candidates who oppose abortion rights are likely to be defeated because the GOP does not have the 60 votes needed to break a Democratic filibuster, despite Republican election gains.

Could be that the Repubs will regret being backed into a corner by the Evangelicals, unable to newance their way out of what will be now "Black and WHite" or newly mainted litmus issues.

Reminds me of the Gingrich newbies who came on board with the "Revolution".

Soulchild (I love that) It was actually Nancy who said we needed a charismatic AND articulate candidate. Articulate in a simple "one-liner" kind of way. But "quick-fix" ideas aren't going to do it. This is a Transformation of America, our institutions, our values, our thrust into the world. The Republicans have already embraced "transformation" as evidenced by the sqeeze out of the moderates and the rise of the far right. They have already expressed the "new message" and at least 49 percent of this country don't like the message. But their message is stronger and more firm than it was 4 years ago or when Reagan and Bush I were president. They have gained a strong foothold in this country and are now defining the direction of this country.

The democrats are floundering with their message and are trying to do things the same old way, with Pluto in the 1st house of this country, they can't do it and they can't give a kinder softer Republican message and win because it's a poor imitation. Democrats haven't gotten to the point of being outrageous with a dramatic and dynamic message, we just keep whining over what the Republicans have done to us and continue to do to us.

We need someone who can frame a new message, a dynamic message, the Republicans have proven that a "hit them on the head with a two by four" works. I cannot say often enough that this is Transformation, we are not ever going back to the way things were for at least 20/30 years and by then these issues will have morphed into some other kind of issue.

To keep attacking what the Republicans are doing to us might feel good but it will not change anything because in the meantime they are getting stronger and reaching our children through the schools and school boards. So the window for us to be relevant is closing fast.

Forget what the news is saying they are owned by the GOP forget the lastest article on what they've done and start looking for underground movements, local politicians, strengthening like-minded people. Look for grass-roots organizations and give your time, 5 bucks, whatever you have or can. Our message needs to reach the Dems not let the Republicans know how angry we are. If we don't soon become part of the liberal dialogue for change we will soon be living in the most repressive theocracy you can imagine. The sooner we can move away from should have been, might have been the better.

As far as the voting irregularities go, in order for the election to be turned over it would have to go through the courts in Ohio and Florida, through the conservative courts, what do you think the chances might be. To be effective, we must get past being the reactionary party, the party who "reacts" when something happens. We must become or find a way to be pro-active.

There is a poster on this board who has a young daughter (in her early 20's) who has become involved with the Democratic party in a pro-active way. Our fight with the Republicans is just draining off our energy to make changes, my hope is this young woman and others like her will bring a new dialogue to the party.

Frankly, I don't care if the Republicans are right or wrong, they are here and don't represent me and I want to figure out how to fight them on their own turf, how to frame our message with the more power than they have framed theirs.

Sharon, I imagine it all goes into the same pot.

One of our posters, Connie, who wisely saw the hand writing on the wall in the 80's and her family moved out of the country then just sent me an excellent link to a German (and English) website with tons of information. I heartily recommend the site.

www.heise.de/tp/

TheBBC link at indymedia worked for me with no trouble, but thanks for adding the ICH site, also. The point of this is that BBC REFUTED all the claims American and British governments have claimed about the power of OBL and his Al Quaida....this is a 3 part series, and this was the last segment. Basically, it is the SELLING of the NIGHTMARE. It is stunning. And that is why it will only appear, I am sure, on the internet in this country. The reason it is liberating is that it FREES you from the offically generated fear which elected BUSH in the first place (along with the serious voter fraud) I sent the link to Michael Moore....

This came today, also:
From: Moyers, Bill
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 12:58 PM
To: PubAffTV
Subject: From a good friend of mine of many years.

Yesterday a friend voted early at a polling location in Austin. She voted straight Democratic. When she did the final check, lo and behold every vote was for the Democratic candidates except that it showed she had voted for Bush/Cheney for president/vice pres.

She immediately got a poll official. On her vote, it was corrected. She called the Travis County Democratic headquarters. They took all her information, and told her that she wasn't the first to report a similar incident and that they are looking into it.

So check before you leave the polling booth, and if anything is wrong, get it corrected immediately. Report any irregularities to your local Democratic headquarters.

Make sure you pass this along to your friends ... hopefully this is all over the airwaves by tomorrow ...

Sally...looks like Overstock.com is also not a good site to trade on....but check out this from
http://www.greenfestivals.org.

They gave a huge conference over the weekend in SF(I didn't go...would have if I had not been sick) and there are tons of links in my little mailer....from money to toilet paper...
It is green all the way.

I find the anti-Mason thing disturbing...my dad was a Mason, my great grandfather was a 33rd degree Mason...my mother was in Eastern Star. I myself would never join any organization which would have me as a member, to quote the old cliche, but the Masons? Why are they hated...the founders of this country, except for the occasional Catholic, were all Masons...or Freemasons as they were called. They opposed Catholic doctrine, that is true....but since they were fighting the 'one church catholicism' and tyranny of the catholic church in those founding times, it makes sense to me why they would oppose it. Luciferian doctrine? i don't think so....I am going to pass that web site on to one of my oldest friends, who was the Grand Matron of Eastern Star in CA....see if she, a devout Christian, thinks this passes the smell test...but then, bible thumpers are going to dispute anything that isn't about Christianity. Their brand. Savronola is making his reappearance....and the devil is more likely to be Pat Robertson.

I have seen a few writings here and on web sites that John Kerry was no different than the Chimp and we should look for someone else to represent us. I disagree.

I want to mention a few things:

Kerry not only HAS experienced the hellishness of the Vietnam War - he came back and OPPOSED the war very publicly to congress, he put his career and butt on the line to do this.

He could not oppose this so-called "Iraq war" (it should be called the slaughter in Iraq) during his campaign because he would have lost a tremendous amount of votes - but he could opppose it (and would) during his policy making after becoming President. As a politician one must use the art of knowing when to keep your mouth shut - to get the "stupid Amercun vote" - you know the red necks who value god and guns.

Kerry has a 100% HUMANE scorecard rating. He has always voted humanely during his long tenure in politics as well as to protect the environment.

Kerry (to me) is a charismatic and even sexy (wind surfer, athlete) candidate. Did you see him run up and jump on stage? He speaks 6 languages and would have been THE ultimate UNITED NATIONS DIPLOMAT as well as peace maker.

Kerry CAN NOT overtly fight the Bush "win". But he probably is fighting it behind the scenes as we speak. There is probably strategy behind this.

I know we are all angry that Kerry conceded so quickly - but the truth is starting to come out and his concession was merely a polite courtesy, NOT legally binding.

PS - As the evidence shows, my state: FLORIDA IS BLUE, NOT RED!

Nexxus, we all supported Kerry and after he lost he crawled in a hole, pulled it in after him and left 55 million of us dangling with jaws dropped and handed it to Bush ever so nicely, good Skull n Bone's man. Where is our Leader now? I can't see him, or hear him, and I will not support the current crooks!
Where is Kerry? Rolled over and played dead.

I disagree with you all about Kerry rolling over and playing dead. The votes weren't there. Even if he had stayed in, he couldn't have won with the vote count the way it was.

He would "un-concede" in a macrosecond if he thought he could win. It killed him to concede, but he had to. He had lost the election.

Lets be more patient before judging Kerry. How do we know what his strategy is? How could we possibly know?

As Laurie mentioned, it appeared that he had legally lost and he did what he was supposed to do, concede. However, that was before evidence mounted of election fraud.

I always look at someone's "lifetime" character before I judge one single action. What has he done throughout his political career? How has he voted? It has always been humane and for the people.

Please keep in mind too - he was spent, exhausted physically and emotionally. He had continued campaigning up until 6 pm election night for goodness sake! He was hoarse, he had gotten sick! He had given it his all! He could not fight any longer - not after losing the so-called "fair election" by such a clear margin.

Wait to see his "true colors" after the election fraud evidence mounts - you may be surprised.

Amen to waiting on the eating our own. It's the machines!

And I want to remind everyone of something he was accidentally caught saying about the Bush administration when he thought his microphone was off...that the Bush administartion demanded an apology for ...one that he would not give....

"These are the biggest bunch of liars and crooks" -
~John Forbes Kerry

And I want to remind everyone of something he was accidentally caught saying about the Bush administration when he thought his microphone was off...that the Bush administartion demanded an apology for ...one that he would not give....

"These are the biggest bunch of liars and crooks"
~John Forbes Kerry

A new approach - attack the fundies instead of trying to be nice....

From the UK Register:

Reach out and sneer: Dem radicals speak to the Red States
By New Democrat Outreach Program
Published Sunday 7th November 2004 12:30 GMT
Comment The defeated Kerry may have called for unity last week, but already radical elements inside and outside of the Democrat party are arguing for the abandonment of the old ways of cosy consensus. One such organisation, formed even as the last queues for the ballots ebbed away, styles itself "The New Democrat Outreach Program." The Register has been contacted by one NDOP activist, styling himself Commandante Camembert, with an early draft of the organisation's first communique to the nation. "We must," says Camembert, "learn to speak to all of the people. But we mustn't be afraid to sneer when we do it."

We think they've got that right already, although the "outreach" may need some work. Anway, here it is:

An open letter to the Red-State victors:
With hard work and superb organization, you have triumphed over John Kerry and the forces of Blue-state paternalism. Congratulations. The multinational corporations that hold you in bondage remain free to profit off your sweat nearly tax free, while their overpaid senior execs continue to pay a pittance in personal income tax.

Your primary and secondary schools will continue to turn out third-rate pupils with limited opportunities, while you enjoy the satisfaction of making it on your own without health care when a catastrophic illness bankrupts your family.

Your agricultural universities will continue issuing Ph.D.s in football, and bogus Protestant Evangelical and Fundamentalist theology, and how to jerk off a bull safely. Your children will learn to borrow enough money to erect chicken houses so that they, like you, can take custody -- not possession, but custody -- of Tyson's chicks, feed them, rear them, assume losses from those that fail to thrive, and in the end earn just enough money to service their endless debt, and realize a profit of perhaps $12K a year. Your bank thanks you; Tyson thanks you; George W. Bush thanks you; and I thank you.

You can continue sending your sons to die in Iraq on a fool's errand. When you bury them, you can console yourselves with Bush's platitudes about their heroic mission to defend America from weapons of mass destruction.

You can savor the deficit spending that stimulates commerce today, but will cripple the US economy in ten or fifteen years' time when the bills come due with interest. Perhaps a Democrat will be in office at that time, who can be blamed for W's delayed economic fiasco.

You can continue believing, as Republican Party brainwashing has persuaded you, that we, your neighbors, are your enemies. You can believe that we have no morals; that we pimp out our teenage daughters for Internet porn; that we eat babies; that we are all gay; that we are cowards on the battlefield; and that we want to run your lives and give you AIDS.

Here's a clue: we are not your enemies; we are your countrymen. Your enemies are the greedy multinationals that the Republican Party bends over backwards to accommodate. Incidentally, most of them are based in Blue states, as are their Republican owners and major shareholders.

Here in the Blue States, Democrats and Republicans alike generate the lion's share of America's wealth, although it is you Reds who provide the lion's share of the stoop labor. You are our Mexicans, so to speak. We could not have accomplished the economic miracle that is America without your willing capitulation to a system that lies to you and fucks you over at every turn.

Look at economic output and educational achievement on a state-by-state basis: it's painfully evident that we Blues are immensely more productive and better educated than you Reds. We have lots more money. We live longer. We eat better. We work less. We fuck more. We do cocaine and smoke fine Canadian buds, not the homebrew crank and cheap Mexican headache reefer you guys are stuck with. We drink French wine and Stoli martinis, not Budweiser. Our children rarely bother us: we've got them on Ritalin and Prozac. Our teeth are straighter and whiter, our necks longer, and our fingernails cleaner. And many of us are the Republican elite who have just punked you.

It's good to be a Blue, regardless of which party you join.

Understandably, you resent us, so you've fabricated an imaginary measure of superiority: Christian "values." Yet you talk about values the way a pre-teen girl talks about "love" in fan letters to Ashton Kutcher. You recycle quasi-religious platitudes and received slogans. You know nothing of moral theology, a rigorous philosophical pursuit that hardly exists outside the Catholic Church and its elite universities. You make of the Bible what you will; you attend prayer meetings with other semi-literates, where you reinforce each other's sloppy understandings of the text, and combine them with half-digested bits of old-timey Hallmark-card "wisdom." And when you spout gibberish, you call it "speaking in tongues." You actually fancy that you're saints, you silly, narcissistic creatures.

Nevertheless, you are fellow Americans. The Blue Republican elite encouraged you to vote for George W Bush, because they quite simply own him, and they know that his administration will make policies that help them, even if hurt you. We Blue Democrats voted for John Kerry because we believed he would minister to your needs better than Bush. A President Kerry would have shared some of our wealth with you, assured your health care, raised the minimum wage, and checked the rapacious greed of the multinationals that hold you in thrall.

President Kerry would have helped us to help you, which is all that we ask. It pains us to see you in wage slavery. It pains us to see you so ignorant and uneducated, and so eager to place yourselves in bondage. Yes, we live better; but we wish you to live better too, even if it means sacrifice on our part.

What we wanted for you would have been far better than that which you, in your ignorant pride, demanded for yourselves. Oh, you defeated us all right, but only to your detriment.

We Blues will come out of the Bush era no worse for wear, although you Reds will come out very much diminished, deeper in debt, and less able to improve your circumstances by your own powers. But because you wish to be flattered more than helped, you will be grateful for your ass fucking from the Blue-state Republican elite that is laughing behind your backs today.

We did not wish it so. We honestly did want to help.

On 2 November, you thanked us by electing a shrewd, manipulative handmaiden to corporate America who panders to you while ruthlessly exploiting your ignorance and weakness for the benefit of his patrons in the national plutocracy. There is nothing we can do about that. You won fair and square.

We should let you rot. We should secede and leave you to fend for yourselves. Then you will see firsthand just how dependent you are. We are sick of fighting for you by fighting against you. Perhaps, when you see how dreary your lives have become without us, you will finally develop the spine to fight for your basic, human rights. And then we will gladly confront the plutocracy alongside you. We need your help to defeat the Blue Republicans, who, I assure you, are just as decadent as we are, though often richer.

But until you finally learn to respect yourselves, we can't respect you, and we therefore can't be bothered to give a rat's ass about you.

So let us secede, Blue America and Red America. We can handle the Blue state Republicans, so long as we don't have a lot of ignorant Red state lemmings frustrating our efforts and screwing themselves in the bargain. Secession will enable us both to live as we have chosen without the other's interference. We will prosper, and you will get a clue.

But do stay in touch after the borders slam shut. When you finally tire of living on the modern, corporate plantations of Cargill, Tyson, ConAgra and Smithfield; when you tire of shopping at Wal-Mart and sending your daughters to sling hash at Denny's in hopes that they'll meet the nicer sort of truck driver; when you tire of sneaking into Blue America as illegal white-trash wetbacks eager for casual work dusting our parlors; and when, like men, you finally rise up in rebellion against this immoral usury -- then, and only then, let us talk.

We'll gladly get your backs. But first you must grow the brains and the balls needed to profit from our help. ®

Have missed you all so much, this site and the fine writing. The insights instigate a hopefulness that is missing from most daily dialogue. That hopefulness, for me, resides in the thoughtful, intelligent perspective necessary if we are to reach our "higher" s-elfs thereby contributing to a social order that is now strained against credibility.

Thankfully, our move is complete and now i'll be able to devote more study time to one of my favorite sites.

Thank YOU all!
karen/farrout

Claudia sent this:
Subject: Story really growing legs: ELECTION RIGGED IN OHIO

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6210240/

NEW YORK˜ Here‚s an interesting little sidebar of our system of government confirmed recently by the crack Countdown research staff: no Presidential candidate‚s concession speech is legally binding. The only determinants of the outcome of election are the reports of the state returns boards and the vote of the Electoral College.

That‚s right. Richard Nixon may have phoned John Kennedy in November, 1960, and congratulated him through clenched teeth. But if the FBI had burst into Kennedy headquarters in Chicago a week later and walked out with all the file cabinets and a bunch of employees with their raincoats drawn up over their heads, nothing Nixon had said would‚ve prevented him, and not JFK, from taking the oath of office the following January.

This is mentioned because there is a small but blood-curdling set of news stories that right now exists somewhere between the world of investigative journalism, and the world of the Reynolds Wrap Hat. And while the group‚s ultimate home remains unclear - so might our election of just a week ago......

Just a few comments today:

I wrote out a number of messages this morning to my e-mail election list, including my Bushite Repub. son. His reply was "Whatever...Get over it...You can try again in 4 years..."

My reply back to him:

It's not about whether Side A won, or whether Side B won, but...in the
case of electronic voting machines...that ANYBODY can hack into the
main frame and change the votes for a whole precinct or county or
state...in about 90 seconds. A junior high student can do this. A
child.

To me...living in a country such as ours where our right to vote for
whomever we wish to...is a blessed right...that anybody can do this,
can hack the vote, and that WE ALLOW it to happen(as well as allowing
private companies to own the electronic voting machines) does not bode
well for our democracy.

If it was your guy that lost, and you felt that there were some really
fishy results appearing, would you not want to look at it a bit closer?

And if everybody says, as you say..."Whatever..." or "Get over
it"...then whoever is in power can just hack into the machines and pick
and choose who wins...the next time...or the time after that...or the
time after that...and we, the people, are the ultimate losers. We might
as well live in a country where people are beaten at the polls...or
where we don't have the right to vote AT ALL.

The right to vote, and TO HAVE YOUR VOTE COUNT, is what our country is
based on. Please, don't take that right lightly. It's a right your
children(and my grandchildren) "still" have, as well. I'd love to keep
it that way and I am working hard for just that reason.

We are not a country where who cheats best wins.
_______________

Comments from DU:

we MUST HAVE a transparent process. Otherwise, what is the POINT of anyone fighting ANYWHERE? After all, if we (and this is in dispute, I realize) are fighting to provide a possibility of democracy in the ME, then we ought to show those emerging democracies how it is done in the event of a dispute. We solve the problems with laws, not guns. Rather than avoid the conflict, it is a wonderful opportunity to show others that in our society arguments can occur without resorting to violence.
*************

This is exactly where the largest hacking may be found.
These concentrators take information from polling sites around them and account using the GEMS sw. These Windows-based computers could be the culprits, no matter if the reporting polling sites had optical scanning or touch screens or whatever. These computers, in short, are where the results from all around are poured in, these results can modified in a matter of seconds.
************

"The price of democracy is eternal vigilance." -Jefferson
__________________

Wrote to Keith Olbermann re his piece George, John, and Warren. Apparently there is now a blackout on newsmedia reporting on the fraud.

Write to Cameron Kerry re any voting irregularites at:

Cameron KERRY, John Kerry's brother at his law firm at the address

CKerry@Mintz.com
__________________

Got to go do something else and get a bite to eat.

OG

You said that exactly right Old Granny! If the next generation is too stupid to think their rights are protected this way, they will pay a terrible price. They should know better.

Nexxus, not to be argmentatative with you but if Kerry knew them the be "the biggest bunch of crooks and liars" why did he automatically assume the Ohio/Florida results to be above board and certifiable? Just on principle, he should have used the mechanisms and lawyers at his disposal to make sure the votes were accurately counted and ALL of them counted.

Hi everybody......

Haven't posted much lately because I've been too upset and depressed even to think, much less write. But thank you to everyone who kept up their energy enough to keep posting and putting down the thoughts of all of us who didn't. I've been reading this site 5 times a day to reassure myself that there are still intelligent, thinking people who will never be conned into drinking the kool-aid.

Are any other of the word-lovers who populate this site having fits of nausea over "Phantom Fury"?

Or is that Phantom Phury? Or maybe Fantom Fury?
Which fits the literacy competence level of those who are carrying out this farce? Sorry for the blasphemy , but I no longer can keep up the charade of "supporting our troops".........people who can kill children and other innocents while chanting "Praise Jesus!" don't deserve my support. I can't handle the idea that stupidity or ignorance excuses murder.

Not any longer.

My ire has been incited by a string of stories on DU this weekend about the pre-battle pep talks and so-called "religious" observances by American troops. They are truly disgusting.

Thanks again for the articles and postings, people. I think Atlantis is about to sink again.

A very disillusioned,
Teg

I've been reflecting on the rigged voting of last week - and earlier, and came across this article on FTW.

I had been very reluctant to think that the quickness of Kerry's concession could be attributable to something more sinister than simply the campaign's belief that they couldn't prevail on challenges, but I'm reforming my opinion about this. I've posted the link to the article below so you can read and decide for yourselves.

I know this doesn't constitute proof, but I keep thinking about Soros and his vow to bring *sh down and I have to believe that with the involvement of people like him and the thousands of passionate Dem supporters and campaign workers that Kerry-Edwards did win this thing and it was rigged. Again. And anyone with any power to do something about it is doing absolutely nothing. Nothing. Saying absolutely nothing. Nothing. Including the two standardbearers. What the hell is up? It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever unless what Chin writes is true. And if this is true - or some close approximation of it - what can be done now?

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/110804_stolen_election.shtml

Biggest joke going around is that Guliani is a contender from the cons/repugs in 2008.My question
is when was the last time a mayor took the next step to become the prez unless of course this guliani is a bigger dayligh robber than the shrub!

Raj,

Perhaps the 'mayor' knows things others don't about 9/11?

Will the Anti-War Movement Stand Up This Time?
Fallujah and the Reality of War
By RAHUL MAHAJAN

The assault on Fallujah has started. It is being sold as liberation of the people of Fallujah; it is being sold as a necessary step to implementing "democracy" in Iraq. These are lies.

I was in Fallujah during the siege in April, and I want to paint for you a word picture of what such an assault means.

Fallujah is dry and hot; like Southern California, it has been made an agricultural area only by virtue of extensive irrigation. It has been known for years as a particularly devout city; people call it the City of a Thousand Mosques. In the mid-90's, when Saddam wanted his name to be added to the call to prayer, the imams of Fallujah refused.

U.S. forces bombed the power plant at the beginning of the assault; for the next several weeks, Fallujah was a blacked-out town, with light provided by generators only in critical places like mosques and clinics. The town was placed under siege; the ban on bringing in food, medicine, and other basic items was broken only when Iraqis en masse challenged the roadblocks. The atmosphere was one of pervasive fear, from bombing and the threat of more bombing. Noncombatants and families with sick people, the elderly, and children were leaving in droves. After initial instances in which people were prevented from leaving, U.S. forces began allowing everyone to leave except for what they called "military age males," men usually between 15 and 60. Keeping noncombatants from leaving a place under bombardment is a violation of the laws of war. Of course, if you assume that every military age male is an enemy, there can be no better sign that you are in the wrong country, and that, in fact, your war is on the people, not on their oppressors,, not a war of liberation.

The main hospital in Fallujah is across the Euphrates from the bulk of the town. Right at the beginning, the Americans shut down the main bridge, cutting off the hospital from the town. Doctors who wanted to treat patients had to leave the hospital, with only the equipment they could carry, and set up in makeshift clinics all over the city; the one I stayed at had been a neighborhood clinic with one room that had four beds, and no operating theater; doctors refrigerated blood in a soft-drink vending machine. Another clinic, I,m told, had been an auto repair shop. This hospital closing (not the only such that I documented in Iraq) also violates the Geneva Convention.

more http://www.counterpunch.org/mahajan11062004.html

Raj, during the 2000 Rethug primaries, before McCain was 'eliminated' by *sh, the rumor was circulating that Guliani was being considered as VP material by the McCain campaign. Al Sharpton, in his inimitable way was quoted as saying, "Hunh! Well anybody'd that make Guliani his VP had better hire a food taster!"

This character is a snake but I don't think he ultimately has the connections to become a king in this country.

Here's one conspiracy theory...

Okay if the Bushie administration / republicanss "own the world" are are backed by the most powerful corporations (as shown in that list) ofcourse to keep their taxes low and profits high...(much at stake for them if Kerry got in)

and if Bushie's dad has so infiltrated the CIA...

what if Kerry was given a death threat secretly by a CIA operative not operating as a CIA operative (if you know what I mean) and governments do do this...

and the threat was not aimed at Kerry, but at his daughter?

and what if there was no way for Kerry to uncover this without risking her death?

...you do know why John F. Kennedy was killed..yes?

**************************

I REFUSE to capitulate to any ideas that Kerry's butt kickin campaign was a charade! It is my gut instinct about him as a person.

Not to mention that a public officials job is to "keep the peace and unity of our nation" above all else - he did what every member of his peers (members of congress including fellow democrats) expected him to do.

anything else may have been seen as a threat to our "national security"...now I agree - that's bogus. But it is the mindset of a politician to work for unity and the greater good rather than division. He did what any "good" politician HAD to do for UNITY in the good ole USA.

I think he is our slain warrior and he is sobbing right now. I think our warrior could not stand up to every corporation running the planet and their corrupt machines.

I would not have wanted to be in his shoes. How about some compassion for our slain warrior?

Susan, the article you linked fromhthewilderness.com was a very succinct and I suspect accurate summation of this last 'selection' we endured.

Don't know if anybody posted this yet so forgive a second posting if they have. Worth reading:

http://207.44.245.159/article7243.htm

All the makings of a war crime - with Australia silently onside

A US-led attack on the Iraqi Sunni-stronghold will breach the Geneva conventions

Tony Kevin.

11/08/04 "SMH" -- We need to be clear on what is about to happen in the Iraqi city of Falluja, about 64 kilometres west of Baghdad and a key centre of Sunni population in Iraq. This city has for many months held out as a centre of Sunni-based political-military resistance, refusing to accept the authority either of the former US-led occupying authority nor, since July, of the interim Iraqi administration led by the Prime Minister, Iyad Allawi.

Falluja is now to be brought to heel by overwhelming military power. As I write this, the US attack on the city has begun. The message to Falluja from the US armed forces in Iraq and from Allawi was brutally simple: submit now to Baghdad's authority or face attack.

Came out from under the bed for just a few minutes to learn from DU that NH just might have a recount. Hope!

Nexxus, a "good" politician is a public servant. A "good" servant of the public doesn't capitulate if he thinks there may have been a breach of voting rights or outright fraud committed, which would violate the public trust by destroying or corrupting the very mechanism guaranteed by the Constitution and the Bill of Rights to allow the public's participation in the process.

I think Kerry was impassioned because I believe he wanted to be President very much. He's been running for President since he was an adolescent. And he would have been a good one - I think. But I'm beginning to believe that he suffers at the pleasure of higher masters.

One bit of noteworthy info, Keith Olbermann had a blog last evening about the tainted vote and he's (supposed) to have Bev Harris of Black Box Voting on tonight. I don't truly think anything will come of any of the talk and whispers about vote fraud, but it would be wonderful to believe that things could be reversed. (You know, kinda like on the soaps when history is rewritten when a long-dead character appears from the dead because he's been in a coma for years from the accident that claimed the life of the person who was mistakenly identified as the dead guy). Unfortunately, life is not a soap opera. It just seems like one.

I don't know. What was supposed to be a shocker on the 11th or so?

I pray to whatever god may exist that the From the Wilderness story isn't true, but the whole thing last week just reeks to high heaven.

Worth a read on the comments by exPM of Malaysia
about shrub and US on website - http://jang.com.
pk/thenews/nov2004-daily/08-11-2004/world/w9.htm

I don't know why it is so hard, but a lot of people can't seem to grasp (grok?) that you don't get a recount with a no-paper trail voting machine.

It doesn't matter how many lawyers demand a "recount." If the machine has no paper record it will simply repeat for you the same tally it was programmed to make the first time.

In 2002 an intelligent friend said to me, "Barbara, these computers are reliable. Look at all the airline reservations they keep track of without errors."

"Yeah," I said. "If you program them to be honest, they will be. They will do Anything you program them to do."

Max Cleland, the popular Georgia Senator and Vietnam vet (lost both legs) lost reelection after Georgia's Diebold voting machines were altered with an uncertified patch that the engineers light-heartedly named "Rob Georgia." Yet to this day Cleland doesn't believe the machines had anything to do with his loss.

We've got a big education job to do.

ANTI-WAR PROTESTERS SHUTDOWN ARMY RECRUITMENT CENTER IN HOLLYWOOD
LOS ANGELES - Saturday, November 7, 2004, About 1,500 people met at Hollywood and Highland and marched to the recruiting station at Sunset and LaBrea to protest the occupation of Iraq and the stolen election. About 500 people entered the parking lot of the Army recruiting center in a mini-mall at LaBrea and Sunset. Police seemed somewhat unprepared but recovered after about 15 minutes and inserted themselves between the protestors and the recruiting center. After reinforcements arrived, they then proceeded to sweep across the lot, driving everyone out the LaBrea exit and into the main mass of demonstrators. Reportedly four arrests were made by the LAPD. Reports:

http://la.indymedia.org/archives/archive_by_id.php?id=739&category_id=3

Susan,

Uranus turns direct on November 11 ---

http://www.daykeeperjournal.com/retrogrades.shtml

after five months of traveling retrograde. In early June 2004, while Uranus stationed retrograde, we had another huge upsurge in violence in both Israel-Palestine and Iraq. Uranus then turned retrograde at 7 Pisces. Now it will turn direct at 3 Pisces. Thus it re-covers the degrees between 3-7 Pisces. These degrees connect closely with both John Kerry’s and John Edwards’ charts (rather than with the charts of the U.S. or Bush).

It is certain that some surprise will happen when Uranus turns direct. It always does. Uranus represents independence, and sudden change.

As mentioned before, Mars squared Saturn as Saturn turned retrograde. Mars is in the picture again. Now it trines Uranus as Uranus turns direct. I can read this as Mars blocking the old guard so it must retreat, and encouraging the new guard to enter the picture. As discussed in the Daily Guide, New Moon in Scorpio on November 12 ushers in a season of transformation. And this season will be guided by a fresh Uranus, ready to reform the system.

Uranus returns to 7 Pisces in late February 2005, and next turns retrograde in June 2005 at 11 Pisces.

I'm rather surprised at how harsh people are being about Kerry. We've assumed that we know what he's doing quietly behind the scenes. Some of us have even excoriated him for "giving up" when that may not be what he's done. They're doing a recount in New Hampshire right now. How is this important? Kerry won NH, but there were huge discrepencies between what the Exit Polling said and the final numbers said. By recounting a State that Kerry won, there's a lot less noise about Kerry being a sore loser. In fact, Ralph Nader has requested and won the recount, so Kerry's out of that decision altogether! Much easier for Kerry to Unconcede if the NH recount, the one he didn't ask for, shows voter fraud.

Furthermore, if there are wide and consistent discrepencies shown in County after County in NH using the same machines used in Ohio and Florida, it's a lot easier for Attorneys to approach a Judge and request a recount in other States. The NH recount's sole function is to set a precedent for States like Ohio, Florida, etc.

Please don't forget that Kerry is a top-notch Prosecutor, probably a lot smarter and more cunning and patient than most of us here. The best way to get your Opponent is not by blazing across the sky in a fit of anger and fury, broadcasting your every move, but by burrowing deep in the ground, keeping to the shadows and gathering your ammunition with stealth and secrecy.

My gut instinct has always been that he's working behind the scenes compiling irrefutable evidence of voter fraud and will Unconcede when he's got his guns loaded and the Repugs are still busy doing their Victory Dance. They knew that Bush would steal it. It's much more powerful to catch Bush in the light of day with his hands in the proverbial cookie jar than to bitch and moan about "voting irregularities" that you, as of yet, have no proof of.

Just my five cents. And it's not yet the 20th of November, so let's wait and see what happens then.

Well Said Jonathan!

Reminds me of a scene from "All The President's Men"

             DEEP THROAT
  --you were doing so well and then you got stupid, you went too fast-- Christ, what a royal screw up--

               WOODWARD
 --I know, I know, the pressure's off the White House and it's all back on the Post--

              DEEP THROAT
--you've done worse than let Haldeman slip away, you've got people feeling sorry for him--I didn't think that was possible. A conspiracy like this --  the rope has to tighten slowly  around everyone's neck. You build from the   outer edges and you go step by step.   If you shoot too high and miss, then everybody feels more secure. You've put the investigation back months.

Jonathan, my feeling exactly!! Thank you for saying to well!

Exactly right, Jonathan! Sen Kerry went into this thing very well thought out & with other powerful folks behind him. He et al very well KNOWS the massive criminality of the bushaholic mafioso, & wouldn't have started this very dangerous undertaking unless he knew he had a very good chance of beating 'em at their own game... imo. No sense in thinking he's as superficial as are some of us USian citizens. ;O)

As Maya says above:

"As discussed in the Daily Guide, New Moon in Scorpio on November 12 ushers in a season of transformation. And this season will be guided by a fresh Uranus, ready to reform the system."

What better way to reform the "system" than to, through recounts and questions, expose the cracks and falling plaster in this new fangled voting system to the light of day. And perhaps Kerry and his band of Merry Lawyers are just the men to do that ... with the help of Ralph Nader, a man first famous for being a WatchDog, and his recount in NH. I may be an optimistic fool, but I haven't yet ruled out Kerry. I still don't think he'll capitulate that easily.

(interesting that the Security Code I'm having to type in to Post this is 1996, the last year a President was officialy Elected by the People)

Similar to the 60s, I'll bet them anti-war demonstrations will quickly become much more numerous--both small & big--more spontaneous, more assertive, mostly young & male, & much more frequent. I certainly don't blame them & will cheer them on awa be concerned for their safety... which is in extreme everlasting war-jeopardy anyway... the longer outrageous bushadruggie is allowed to rampage on.

Hear, Hear, Jonathan... let's wait a bit, give the dust time to settle.

Meanwhile, Crisis Papers has an interesting piece. A look at 2050, if we FAIL to rise up against these fascists:

--------------------

The Late, Great, American Republic:
A Report from Mid-Century -- 2050

By Nigel Doowrite, as told to Ernest Partridge
Co-Editor, "The Crisis Papers."
July 7, 2003 -- November, 2004

A note from the “real” author: The following is an imaginary essay by an Oxford University historian at mid-21st century. It assumes a continuation of current political and economic trends set in motion by the Bush Administration. With a sudden and early awakening of sanity amongst the public, the media and the elites, which catalyzes effective dissent, protest and reform, a far different future might be realized. (Ernest Partridge).
-----

Who could have imagined, at the turn of this century, how quickly and completely the American republic would collapse? Historically, the decline and fall of great empires normally takes place over decades, and in the case of Rome, over several centuries. The disintegration of the United States took place in just a few brief years.

At the close of the twentieth century, the United States was at peace and enjoying one of the most sustained and productive periods of prosperity in its history – a prosperity that favourably affected all segments of society. President Clinton, though mercilessly harassed by his political opponents, was highly esteemed by heads of state and ordinary citizens throughout the world. The United States, despite its manifest faults, was widely admired and envied by free peoples everywhere.

It was, to put it simply, a great time to be an American.

And then, suddenly, it all fell apart.

More at link:
http://crisispapers.org/Editorials/mid-century.htm

Jonathan, I agree, what you said about Kerry. Remember, his natal north node is conjunct his natal Pluto. His destiny/dharma is with transformation and power. GWB has his north node conjunct Uranus with trans Pluto currently on his south node. We see GWB's destiny caught up with the radical and unexpected.

Well, when trans Saturn gets into Leo and goes over GWB's Asc by next Sept, it will be conjuncting Kerry's node/pluto. I am not a good enough astrologer to know what it means exactly, or even if these aspects will connect the two, but I do get the sense that certain things will be jumping off the page, so to speak.

By the way, we still have Howard Dean, who's considering a bid to head the DNC) and other sterling Democrats who will rise to the occasion. We Democrats & Progressives are not stupid. We will come up with a strategy and the Republicans will help us by hanging themselves on the rope they are being given.

A friend expressed what I was thinking about some of the conservatives and religious people in this country. (Remember they are not all extremists but may be pro-life all the same).

He said ... "we need to get them on OUR side. Example: corruption of Halliburton, standards of living. Appeal to their Chrisitian values. Do not stress the disagreements – but the agreements. Listen to them. Hear their pain. Be politic."

http://www.bopnews.com/archives/002328.html#2328

[Updated] Republican Election Theft Roundup

Slowly, we've made it into the mainstream media.  But, hey, we know
that's how it is on the Internet.  We get the news and the underground
stuff, long before the mainstream gets it.  Sometimes, they never acknowledge it...............but here, on this issue of election fraud......it's
getting noticed.

KEEP ON PROTESTING AND FIGHTING TO GET RE-VOTES.
IF NOT NATIONALLY, THEN IN THE MOST EGREGIOUS
STATES, LIKE OHIO AND FLORIDA.

DEMAND PAPER BALLOTS WITH TELEVISED COUNTING OF
THEM.

Pass this email on to more people and ask them to do the same thing.
This red hot issue deserves to circulate the nation several times.  With
activists like us, this will happen with the Internet.
Maybe democracy is not dead yet.  Keep it [hope] alive!
Joyce
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6210240

BREAKING---KERRY TO UNCONCEDE IF THERE IS EVIDENCE OF FRAUD
FORWARD TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW
EMAIL FROM DC LAWYER CYNTHIA BUTLER

I am angry and getting emails and recrimination from people wondering why KERRY just caved and is not fighting this before the final count in Ohio, before any of the fraud was challenged, before New Mexico and Iowa even came in.

There is widespread feeling that he did not lose the election and that it was taken from him.

There is enough here to warrant investigation and enough to challenge the results. It's coming from all corners.

I understand that he has until the official count certification in Ohio to Un Concede which is several days from now.

Anyone who thinks that he should unconcede should give reasons why - whatever they noticed, particularly in Red Republican Governed States using electronic machines- and send them directly to Cameron KERRY, John Kerry's brother at his law firm at the address CKerry@Mintz.com

They should inform us if they were not allowed to vote provisionally (for whatever reason- they lost forms, ran out of forms, etc.) I personally witnessed a number of things as I reported in Texas with the DCCC. (Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee)

If you know anyone in particular in Ohio who tried to vote and was turned away at the polls please get their information and notify the campaign.

They should be notified if they experienced lines longer than four hours -particularly elderly or infirm people (we call that torture when they do it to political prisoners) . They should be notified if people were told as has been reported that due to too many people showing up in African American precincts, particularly in Ohio where there were too few booths (some only had two or three for the entire precinct) and told because of heavy turn out they could vote on Wednesday. If the numbers of these sorts of incidents creates a percentage margin that exceeds the margin of victory- Un Concession has to be made to challenge the count.

If people wanted to and tried to vote and were prevented or actively discouraged from doing so, that is a Civil Rights matter and must be dealt with in terms of the ultimate count.

This is the last email that I am writing on this subject in this venue. I am taking it up in other venues.

Please pass along this to your listservs so that we may make Democracy Work in America. We are not a country where he who cheats best wins.

Cynthia L. Butler
BUTLER LAW FIRM, P.C.
1717 K St. NW, Suite 600
Washington, DC 20036

MSNBC has question of the day. Go vote.Freepers ahead. Do you think Falluja....?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3096434/

This was posted under the article I wrote earlier, I don't know who posted it, but I am profoundly grateful because it is so funny in its truth.

Written by a woman in Cleveland the morning after the election--

It would be difficult to fully communicate my disappointment in a simple
email. On the other hand, slipping out into the hall and drowning myself
in the mop bucket would mean that someone else would have to feed my
dog.

Kerry has not yet conceded defeat, but I have. Even if someone finds
that crate full of votes for Kerry bobbing down the Cuyahoga River, the
American people have spoken, and they have sent the world a message:
"We're barely bright enough to chew our own food."

Incompetence, incoherence, inarticulateness, pettiness and random
savagery apparently do not deter the majority of Americans. The thing
that really, REALLY matters to Americans? Homos. And foreigners. Both
must be stopped at any cost.

Americans voted overwhelmingly in favor of bigotry, amending state
constitutions around the country to prevent same-sex couples from having
any rights beyond the right to live on the margins of society. We
clearly have far more to fear from The International Homosexual
Conspiracy(tm) than we do from North Korea and the collapse of the
American health care system.

Apparently, we are truly a nation of slackjawed yokels, awed only by
grotesque displays of wealth and violence, reverent only of the bossman
and beholden not even to our children, since we seem content to mortgage
their future in favor of a $300 tax refund that we have traded for
decent jobs, healthcare, and a just society.

We make pious noises about worshipping a Just and Merciful God, while
doling out destruction and horror upon the innocent, pausing only to pat
ourselves on the back for waging a "just" war to rid the world of
tyrants that audaciously aspire to exist after they lose their utility
to us in endless low-level conflicts to control the world's oil supply.

We seem to have become cheap, venal, vulgar and petty while we
apparently don't have the ability to reason our way out of the dilemma
of taking care of the sick, watching out for the elderly, and teaching
our children not to be credulous, callow dupes.

To my friends from the UK, France and anyone to whom they choose to
forward this, I feel that I owe you an apology. It is as if I have
brought an orangutan to high tea. While he flings shit at you and tries
to snatch pastries from your plate, I am left wondering how I might make
it up to you.

The world's richest and most powerful nation seems to have lost its
moral compass. We have lost interest in leading by example in favor of
taking by force. I would like to say that I believe that one day in the
future America might regain its senses. Unfortunately, I am not terribly
optimistic. The best I can offer you is to remind you that Nixon also
won a second term.

Posted by: on November 9, 2004 12:56 AM

Jonathan, JoannaOregon, Suzieliberal & Jo -

I hope you are all right. I was stunned when Kerry folded so quickly after such a huge demonstration by the Dems of having all their legal and voting professionals in place to investigate vote irregularities, etc. All the talk by people like George Soros who staked millions of dollars to unseat the dimson. Then Wednesday morning ...

Since last Wednesday, I thought how incongruous his actions were. Unbelievable. I have hoped so hard that something is in the works. But I'm truly beginning to think that this game has been over for a very long time. Not just this campaign cycle, but for a verrrrrrry long time. Like, maybe we've only been coddled along - "just throw them a few crumbs to make them think they've won something."

I know that an incredible number of people have fought for some very fundamental human rights and equalities. But why, in a country that champions the underdog and the value of each human life, has the struggle been so hard? Why are we sliding backward and not slogging forward?

This country has lost about a century in the past decade. We are back to pre-Civil War 'values'. If this goes much further Clarence Thomas is going to have to excuse himself from the friggin' bench and declare himself a slave again!

I have spent many an election aftermath in the pits of despair -- but nothing like this. I feel like we've been plunged into the distant past. For god's sake, we're not only fighting the Civil [sic] War again, but we're plowing over ground won in the Scopes Trial, Plessy v. Sherman, Rove v. Wade, etc.. ...

I suspect this info has been Posted before, but I'm interested in the Aspects for both Bush and Kerry in the next several weeks, right before the Electorates meet on 13th December.

In other news, a very good friend of mine who's a young attorney (with a very good, top-notch "white shoe" law firm here in Manhattan) just returned one of my many calls to her cell phone only to tell me abruptly that she couldn't talk right now and that we'll catch up when she gets back in a few weeks. A few weeks?!?!?!? Methinks something is up in Ohio, where she's at with the Kerry Campaign. Unusual of her to be abrupt, but she gets that way when she's buried in documents or has all that law-stuff going through her mind.

Hmmmmmmmmmm ... maybe I should take off my tin foil hat and trust my instincts a bit more?

For what it's worth:

http://www.citiesoflight.net/Matthew.html

I found the message just a little hopeful.

Patricia

Eric at Planet Waves has an interesting take on the results of the election... he doubts dubya did win... but he blames... ready? SEX! Go read... now that I've got your attention!

http://planetwaves.net/astrology/pww041105.html

http://www.indyvoter.org/

CALL FOR PUBLIC HEARINGS IN OHIO!!!

They might have conceded - but we haven't conceded our right to have our votes count.

The Ohio Citizens Alliance for Secure Elections (CASE-OH), Common Cause Ohio, Ohio Election Reform Now, Columbus Institute for
Contemporary Journalism, WVKO Radio, and the Columbus League of Pissed Off Voters are calling for public hearings to investigate voting irregularities and voter suppression in Ohio surrounding the 2004 General Election.

THIS IS A NONPARTISAN STATEWIDE CALL TO ACTION. VOTERS AND POLL WORKERS FROM AROUND THE STATE ARE INVITED TO TESTIFY.

Saturday November 13, 1-4 PM
New Faith Baptist Church
955 Oak Street
Columbus, Ohio 43205

Monday November 15, 6-9 PM,
Auditorium (Meeting Room A)
Courthouse, 373 S. High St.
Columbus, OH

We are calling for anyone who experienced or observed election
irregularities or voter suppression on Election Day to come forward and
give their testimony.

We are calling for any individuals or organizations that have information about election irregularities or voter suppression that occured before, during or after the elections to give their testimony.

We are calling for our public officials, community representatives and
the media to come and hear the testimony of the people.

We will document and/or videotape the testimonies for use in a report
and a formal complaint to the Franklin County Board of Elections.

This is a public space to respond to the systemic undermining of our
democratic process and assess how to respond to racial disenfranchisement and suppression of democratic rights.

Citizens, voting experts, and investigative journalists will be invited
to present testimony for the pubic record documenting instances of voting irregularities and systematic voter suppression. The coalition hopes to expose the systemic undermining of our democratic process that occurred leading up to and on Nov 2, and assess how to respond to racial disenfranchisement and suppression of democratic rights.

The local coalition currently has the support of:

* Ohio Senator Teresa Fedor
* freelance journalist Lynn Landes
* Professor Robert Fitrakis (Free Press)
* Bill Moss

More...

Interesting astrologoy article by K.N. Rao showing comparisons between Indira Gandhi and George W Bush

http://www.journalofastrology.com/ARTICLES/bush.htm

This is interesting comment from Rao's article before Nov 2 re the election:

"In the unipolar world, with the absolute dominance of USA , the coming elections of November 2004 interests all nations of the world including US citizens who seem to be clearly polarized between “soft” Americans voting for Democrats and “hard” Americans voting for Republicans. As to the Muslim world, it would be interested in seeing Bush defeated because, as some Muslims have said, for them “Bush is the worst terrorist of the world.”

This image of Bush has astrological foundation because like Indira Gandhi, Bush has Karka (Cancer) Lagna (Ascendent) with Saturn in it and a vargottama Mars, the tenth lord in the second House. Then those who accuse him of having Hitler-like streaks too are not wrong because the gajakesari yoga in the third house of the horoscope of Bush aspected by Saturn resembles the gajakesari yoga of Hitler in the third house with Ketu."

http://www.journalofastrology.com/ARTICLES/USELECTIONS_2004.html

Jo, I cracked up on your comment about Eric, I must tell you Eric thinks everything relates to sex. I didn't realize that years ago when he was just starting and I gave him an introduction to some big name astro colleagues I have in England and they weren't just writing me, they were calling and wanting to know where on earth I met him. It was too funny but he is a good writer and a good astrologer, however it all comes down to SEX for him.

Sort of like Freud Sally. Personally, I never much liked Freud.

http://www.american.edu/academic.depts/spa/ccps/elections/states.html

Election data of the 2000 election, state by state.

Jo, well, then I hope bush ends up like hitler, but then I guess that would seem to mean that the US as a country will wind up somewhat similarly to Germany. Hmmmm. I guess that means we may be in for a divided US 'a la East/West Berlin/Germany -- only this time, we'll have the N/S US.

Bad part is, I happen to live in the South (E Berlin but want to be in the West) and look longingly toward California, Illinois, NY ...

Well, we are divided.

Jo - I mean no disrespect to you with my comments. I'm not criticizing at all. I'm just expressing my own thoughts about how everything has become so polarized and how history repeats. Your reference to Eric Francis's article is great. I remember the earlier (January?) MASS gay marriage/civil partner decision jarring my pre-election tremors because I felt at the time that this would be a HUGE issue with voters and that in some way Kerry would be tarred with it.

Jonathan, Bravo to you for your very articulate "defense" of John Kerry with which I agree.

Patricia, I find the explanations given in the Matthew material to be very logical, reasonable, sensible. As I posted earlier, an intuitive friend of mine (I hesitate to call her psychic but she is a professional and has worked with Goldie Hawn)..anyway, she also sees/feels/intuits that something will break open to reveal this administration's corruption (she got that it would relate to the war) and the result could mean Bush & Cheney resigning or being impeached, obviously in disgrace. She said it would be very dramatic. Matthew says this will open the eyes of the Bush-Cheney followers...finally.

Right now many of us are aware that the election was stolen again (http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/index.php?id=284).

We'll see what is really meant to happen: Will the truth be proven and the election be reversed now, or will Bush-Cheney resign in disgrace later? The second path might be better.

Also, I don't know who has seen the article on DU, but apparently there is a poll that shows that 25% of Bush voters "almost" voted for Kerry. These people are not the evangelicals or right wing extremists. These are people who want to do the right thing and who are afraid of change during these times of terrorist threats.

Sally -

You seem to take the sex aspect lightly, but Jo wasn't making light of this. Nor should anyone else.

Well, everyone on this board knows that the only thing that grabs people in this country (sadly) is sex - or to be completely blunt - sexual peccadillos.

Whether it be Monica, Gennifer F., or all the bimbos from the so-called 'Christian' preachers' pasts - sex is what the wingers focus on.

Multiple years of brainwashing young minds about the dangerousness of 'sexuality' has made everyone hyper-aware of the 'danger' and 'immorality' of sexual choice and freedom.

You DO know that sex will make you go to hell, don't you? (blind at the very least.) Unless, of course, you 'do it' in the dark, fully clothed, with at least one foot on the floor, and ONLY with the person you are married to (and he/she better be white, anglo saxon and protestant - and so should you!)

Re: The Kerry concession..........my son said "Why he doesn't need the money?"
My response........it's the 8 beautiful kids, 5 Kerrys & 3 Edwards! I'm with you Nexxus & Jonathan!

Re: The inaugural............it's a no brainer... what if .............. NO ONE SHOWED UP?
No demonstration, no silent accusers wearing arm bands, no people on the streets.................
Then bill the WH for the cost of all that extra security!
Votenowar has already e-mailed me about the planned demonstrations, I am goiung to e-mail them & suggest the opposite! HAven't we all ignored a real BORE in desperation at a party hoping he'd GO AWAY?

Judi G,
My tech told me to stay away from real player, that it causes problems with Macintosh.
Is there any other way to get that video? Purchase it thru the mail?
PQOP

All - I apologize. This is a week's worth of pent-up rage, angst, confusion...

I'm perplexed. I want you to understand that I'm not criticizing anyone here or trying to 'flame' anyone or be dismissive of anyone's views.

I'm just so incredibly blown away by the (seeming) willingness of people to be led by a dimwit, tin horn, DICTATOR.

In the impassioned exuberance of Dean: Arrrrrghghh rrgrrrgh!

The Mathew Material:
Along with this, I want to tell you the two crucial reasons that the outcome is far, far more advantageous than is logical for you to think. I say “logical to think” because so few are aware of what has been going on behind the scenes. Eventually the truth about the deception of the president and his cabinet throughout their years in control will come forth. When it does, the impact will be infinitely greater on a "sitting" administration than a former one. This is necessary so that Bush’s adherents will be shocked into reconsidering everything that has transpired under his leadership. They will realize that deliberately creating fear has been his intent and his power over them—they will be shaken out of their blindness and forced to start thinking more deeply than formerly.

The second reason is of equal importance. If Kerry had emerged the victor, his adherents—indeed, much of the world!—would have held great hope that his policies would lead to peace, to environmental protection, to greater economic stability, to kinder, more just treatment of those who, under the former presidency, were disenfranchised in many areas of basic needs and constitutional rights. That hope would not have been realized. None of the campaign promises would have come to fruition, and the dawning of that truth eventually would have led to despair and, added to the revelations about the former administration, the fact of total betrayal would have sent that nation to its knees. The divine plan, which you do know at soul level, is to have the progression of disclosures and new leaders with wisdom and spiritual integrity unfold in a more orderly fashion to avoid chaos and minimize governing disruption.

So you see, for the good of Earth, the election outcome HAD to be what it was. Only now can I divulge that high light beings both off and on planet played a major role in swaying the battle of the two Illuminati factions in the final days before the “victor” was declared.

**********I find the words of channelers very comforting and this was. I agree, had Kerry gotten in, he would have been a "lame duck" president stuck in the quagmire that Bush had created. And those awful aspects coming up in the US chart next year - I doubt it could be Kerry who takes us through such turmoil. I think this voting fraud happened to show us that we need to fix a broken system - to "wake up" and take responsibility for our country - to get involved. With that transiting Pluto squaring the US Mars Neptune conj. ..it seems that thei Iraq slaughter was meant to happen as part of the cycle and Bushie was merely it's (willing) agent.

It's almost like when we have a bad opposition in out charts, say from saturn, or say a really violent t-Square..someone is the agent of that violence towards us (willing or unwilling as far as fate goes), and they are the transit - the energy we needed to experience for growth.

I think Democratic Americans have just found out once and for all (especially those who were uncertain):

that our VOTE is very important to us

that our country is very important to us

that we do want equality for homosexuals

that we will NOT tolerate wars any longer (there wil be no tolerance for killing innocent beings)

that we are activists!

that we have UNITY with our like minded Democrats

that at least 50% DO care about the unfortunate

that at least 50% DO care about the environment

that at least 50% DO want UNITY with the rest of the planet, that we respect the global community

that we now suspect that evangelicals are insane (or at least in a trance state) and that religion is a VERY dangerous detriment to good judgement.

that we DEMAND a separation of church and state

...and I think we have all grown because of this experience. We are waking up to the larger world out there and to it's importance. We will make our votes count in the next election - I'm sure this fraud will be fixed by then..but do we want Kerry to get in office this term and sit in Bush's dirty diapers or do we want Bush to come crumbling down? I pick option B. Best case scenario, massiv election fraud is uncovered and current crooked Republican govt. doesn't allow Kerry to unconcede. Then:
1. Democrats become even more the active and united
2. Voting machines are made safe
3. We get Kerry Edwards in there AFTER Bush's impeachment, or in 2008.
4. Everyone who voted for Bush feels like a fool and experiences inner growth.
5. Evangelicals will become identified with installing the most corrupt President-administration into office in the history of the USA, hence they will become even more a minority.

One thing that Matthew said disturbed me:

And Mother, it doesn’t matter who occupies the Oval Office—this same situation would exist because both Illuminati factions have the same intention, to control your world. Their strategies differ, but the agenda is the same, and that agenda is to conquer other countries through fomenting civil wars, economic enslavement or outright invasion.

Is this spirit saying that both The Democrats and the Republicans are "dark" factions attempting to control everything? (I know Matthew said that our government is corrupt)....HELP!

I do agree though, everything, no matter how bad, happens for growth...and our souls know exactly why.

I found this perceptive article on Matthew Gross' blog. Wanted to share it with you. If you go to his blog, page down to find it.
http://www.matthewgross.com/blog

The Politics of Victimization
[Mel Gilles, who has worked for many years as an advocate for victims of domestic abuse, draws some parallels between her work and the reaction of many Democrats to the election.-- Mathew Gross]

Watch Dan Rather apologize for not getting his facts straight, humiliated before the eyes of America, voluntarily undermining his credibility and career of over thirty years. Observe Donna Brazille squirm as she is ridiculed by Bay Buchanan, and pronounced irrelevant and nearly non-existent. Listen as Donna and Nancy Pelosi and Senator Charles Schumer take to the airwaves saying that they have to go back to the drawing board and learn from their mistakes and try to be better, more likable, more appealing, have a stronger message, speak to morality. Watch them awkwardly quote the bible, trying to speak the new language of America. Surf the blogs, and read the comments of dismayed, discombobulated, confused individuals trying to figure out what they did wrong. Hear the cacophony of voices, crying out, “Why did they beat me?”

And then ask anyone who has ever worked in a domestic violence shelter if they have heard this before.

They will tell you, every single day.

The answer is quite simple. They beat us because they are abusers. We can call it hate. We can call it fear. We can say it is unfair. But we are looped into the cycle of violence, and we need to start calling the dominating side what they are: abusive. And we need to recognize that we are the victims of verbal, mental, and even, in the case of Iraq, physical violence.

As victims we can’t stop asking ourselves what we did wrong. We can’t seem to grasp that they will keep hitting us and beating us as long as we keep sticking around and asking ourselves what we are doing to deserve the beating.

Listen to George Bush say that the will of God excuses his behavior. Listen, as he refuses to take responsibility, or express remorse, or even once, admit a mistake. Watch him strut, and tell us that he will only work with those who agree with him, and that each of us is only allowed one question (soon, it will be none at all; abusers hit hard when questioned; the press corps can tell you that). See him surround himself with only those who pledge oaths of allegiance. Hear him tell us that if we will only listen and do as he says and agree with his every utterance, all will go well for us (it won’t; we will never be worthy).

And watch the Democratic Party leadership walk on eggshells, try to meet him, please him, wash the windows better, get out that spot, distance themselves from gays and civil rights. See them cry for the attention and affection and approval of the President and his followers. Watch us squirm. Watch us descend into a world of crazy-making, where logic does not work and the other side tells us we are nuts when we rely on facts. A world where, worst of all, we begin to believe we are crazy.

How to break free? Again, the answer is quite simple.

First, you must admit you are a victim. Then, you must declare the state of affairs unacceptable. Next, you must promise to protect yourself and everyone around you that is being victimized. You don’t do this by responding to their demands, or becoming more like them, or engaging in logical conversation, or trying to persuade them that you are right. You also don’t do this by going catatonic and resigned, by closing up your ears and eyes and covering your head and submitting to the blows, figuring its over faster and hurts less is you don’t resist and fight back. Instead, you walk away. You find other folks like yourself, 56 million of them, who are hurting, broken, and beating themselves up. You tell them what you’ve learned, and that you aren’t going to take it anymore. You stand tall, with 56 million people at your side and behind you, and you look right into the eyes of the abuser and you tell him to go to hell. Then you walk out the door, taking the kids and gays and minorities with you, and you start a new life. The new life is hard. But it’s better than the abuse.

We have a mandate to be as radical and liberal and steadfast as we need to be. The progressive beliefs and social justice we stand for, our core, must not be altered. We are 56 million strong. We are building from the bottom up. We are meeting, on the net, in church basements, at work, in small groups, and right now, we are crying, because we are trying to break free and we don’t know how.

Any battered woman in America, any oppressed person around the globe who has defied her oppressor will tell you this: There is nothing wrong with you. You are in good company. You are safe. You are not alone. You are strong. You must change only one thing: stop responding to the abuser. Don’t let him dictate the terms or frame the debate (he’ll win, not because he’s right, but because force works). Sure, we can build a better grassroots campaign, cultivate and raise up better leaders, reform the election system to make it failproof, stick to our message, learn from the strategy of the other side. But we absolutely must dispense with the notion that we are weak, godless, cowardly, disorganized, crazy, too liberal, naive, amoral, “loose”, irrelevant, outmoded, stupid and soon to be extinct. We have the mandate of the world to back us, and the legacy of oppressed people throughout history.

Even if you do everything right, they’ll hit you anyway. Look at the poor souls who voted for this nonsense. They are working for six dollars an hour if they are working at all, their children are dying overseas and suffering from lack of health care and a depleted environment and a shoddy education. And they don’t even know they are being hit.

Mel Gilles at 07:31 PM on November 07, 2004
Link | TrackBack (1) | Comments (16)

I want to let all that come to this site know how I appreciate the intelligence and civil discourse that goes on here. There seems to be an endless and developing circle of highly evolved souls, always capable of opening hands and allowing one more to join the circle.

The election results have been a tremendous disappointment to a large segments of this country and in kind, millions of peace loving people around the world. While Bush acts with brazen emboldenment continuing without regard his insane vision of war placing in jeopardy the lives of young Americans and many innocent people of Fallugha . . .It gives me some solace knowing we (the sane half of the US population) are not alone in understanding Bush is mental and our democracy has been hijacked by religious fundamentalist and Zionist neocons. I am hoping the countries of the world eventually gather enough strength and come together to stop the unbridled rabid, fanatical dogs of the Bush dynasty.

I have yet to be able to watch any television news programming because of the insipid attempts by the media whores to paint progressive/liberals as a fringe and radical element all the while praising the self serving preachers of values and free market, who preside over clearly one of the most corrupt administrations ever known. (can someone tell me when Ken Lay (Enron) will get to trial?)

Clearly, in America there are far fewer family farms, banks, insurance companies, trucking companies, railroads, utilities, airlines, pharmaceuticals, grocery stores, hardware stores, independent hospitals almost any industry you care to name indicates a trend toward consolidation and conglomeration.

So while Rove and those cretins steal hard cash (Enron pension funds defunct and creditors/shareholders served first in bankruptcy) and continue to hollow out America, people in La-La-Middle America land march off to that values drum beat, sending their kids off to stupid unnecessary wars and lining up like programmed lemmings hoping to get the best deals at Wal-Mart.

Thanks for the rant . . .Guess I'm really disturbed by the enormous number of easily manipulated flaming dolts occupying this land. . .Makes you want to stop the world and get off.

Mac,
Sound to me like a lot of the problem in a nutshell!

Susan, I don't know if you have followed Eric for very long but I was not making fun of this latest expression of his, because the fear this country holds sex is huge and we either run and hide from it or pervert it and use sex to manipulate, control and obsess over and about. From the beginning of his career he has been in the catagory of obsessing over every sexual nuance you can imagine. If any astrologer can detail the latest election's fear of sex of some kind, in this case, same sex marriage, it would be Eric. My lack of surprise at his his assessment is to me amusing because I have followed and known him for quite a while. Again I will say he is a fine writer and good astrologer and his day after day, month after month, year after year focus on sex brings a smile.

Those have been some pretty funny pieces written and posted....the UK Mirror got it spot on.

I just renewed my subscription to the Chronicle SF, but I am going to cancel. It is just too depressing to read about the ugliness in the heads of these so called Christians....or as Barbara Bush said, why should I bother my beautiful mind with this ? Funny how that should be something I would think about HER people, not to mention, HER.

I have a terrible stomach ache....everytime war ratchetts up, back comes the stomach ache. Time for another dose of Tums.

Pat C, did you ask me about Real Player? I have never had trouble with Real Player...other than it tells me I need to upgrade. Which I don't do. I wouldn't know what else to use, I don't think i can use the Windows player. However, I am now using the iCab browser for Mac, and it does appear that Real Player works quite well with it....I had many more problems with Internet Explorer and RP. Since I stopped using IE, my computer has for the most part, stopped freezing. Piece of shit Microsoft software.

MAC - You are so right about the abuse taking place and I wish that no politician will subscribe to it - I doubt you'll ever here those "what did I do wrong" words coming from John Kerry! That's why many here refuse to watch the news. We know we did nothing wrong and everything right - so screw what those spoon fed idiots say!

It is not time to cater to religous whackos! It is time to stand our ground and ask the insane repugs to grow brains. It's time we plant seeds in those insane minds with our strength and resolve.

Right now - it's a media Democrat Bashfest and I won't here of it - I think many of us are to smart to question where we stand especially knowing that the election was rigged.

****And I'm sorry guys, but I will never try to embrace church jesus freak people to the way of democracy, true compassion, and intelligence - I've had those conversations and I found out they are insane ...

Perhaps the Rapture will take them all to another world of their own making....in some other galaxy, far far away.

I was stomping around here tonight because I had too much nervous energy and I was thinking that "these people" scare me and, I was wishing I could do something now, immediately. And then I realized there was something I could do tonight. I used to go to a Tarot Reader, here in NYC, named Rolla Nordic. She was born in the last part of the 19th century and had acquired a lot of "knowledge" in her time. Anyway I was having a problem with someone and she said to me, "Put Him In The Freezer". I said what and she told me exactly what to do. Write the person's name on a piece of paper and after the name write, you annoy me. Then fold the paper up, put it in a baggie and put it in the freezer. Leave it there until the problem is solved.

I have done this since that time and I will tell you that the problem is eventually solved. And it is solved in a most interesting way. for the punishment always seems to fit the crime. So tonight I am going to put *sh, Rove & Cheney in the freezer and freeze those suckers out of the WH. The more people doing it, the bigger the snowball.

Nexxus, I like your 4:25 AM post. It was VERY inspiring. As far as the Matthew stuff, although I don't know anything about the illuminati, I think it IS obvious that there is corruptions in both parties. The Democrats can't be as pure as the driven snow and with the Republicans being the only "evildoers" (although I think the current crop of Republicans are much worse this time around, but look at past Democrats such as Joe Kennedy). I think the Matthew material went on to say that we would be free of all of this in the future as people wake up and take action together. I think a lot will change when Bush & Cheney are uncovered (as it did with Nixon), only this time, I hope we overthrow the mantle of corruption in a big way, not just in temporary, isolated incidents that revert back. I guess it will take a lot of restructuring but I believe it will happen.

In the meanwhile, anyone see this yet?
Halliburton, the Second-Term Curse?

By Dana Milbank

The White House's Halliburton Honeymoon is already history.

Only two days after President Bush declared victory in his quest for a second term, the company once run by Vice President Cheney dropped a political bomb.

In a filing to the Securities and Exchange Commission on Friday, the oil services company said that the Justice Department expanded its investigation into Halliburton, that government probes have found that bribes may have been made in Nigeria and that A. Jack Stanley, a former senior executive, may have been involved.

(snip)

Bush could defy the second-term curse, of course. And, with Congress in friendly hands and the demise of the independent counsel statute, he has advantages his predecessors did not. But there are a range of investigations and simmering controversies that were held off until after the election -- and that could present trouble for the president as they resurface.

more…
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A35234-20...

MAC...that link to matthew gross came up as a NOT FOUND....is it correct?

I was reading an article in the Chronicle SF about the east bay evangelicals who voted for Bush and Kerry....they voted pretty much along party lines....the ONE thing they united on was they were completely against gay marriage. This county of Contra Costa is much more rightwing than SF area....but still....what little dictators they are under their nice cloth coats and bibles....

It was at that point that I said, I just don't give a rats ass about them, their views, or in anything else about them - they are boring....and said...hmmm...I've had my subscription for a week....think I will cancel...I was right to drop it in the first case. Who really gives a rat's behind ....? Why is this world view upsetting me? Reality checks really suck.

Nexxus: Yes "Michael" did mean that the factions of the Illuminati have the same agenda just different methods of achieving their agenda. The Illuminati are the powers that be that have controled world events and countries since the Medici's and probably before. Their roots on in the church but it money and power that feeds them. If you spend the time tracing their history you will see the same family names over and over.

Their agenda is to control the world and they do, they create chaos, decide who runs a country, which country wins and which loses, who rises and who falls. Some of them believe the way to control the people is through dictatorships, violence, rascism, poverty, keep people afraid. Another faction believes that keeping people "fat and happy" give them a little piece of the pie will keep them down. You see, from the beginning we the people of the world have outnumbered them and they know that. They only represent 5 percent of the world's population, actually the real power is much less than the 5 percent. The Bush family has been part of this for decades and the Kerry family for centuries. They watch who we elect or who any country lets be their leaders but they pull the strings. The Kennedy's went against them and that family has almost been wiped out of their leaders. It's a game and we are willing if not knowledgable, participants. But our destiny and the destiny of 95 percent of the world's population is in their hands and always has been.

Most of us are only interested in surviving, no matter what country. We just want to be secure, fed and our families safe. Most of us don't have a desire to rule the world but we can create havoc for them if we rebel. America and Europe have acted as a balance to the chaos in the world. We've only had periodic upheavals, but for the most part the western world has been pretty quiet and content.

These people are the true elite and our founding fathers were part of it all and they control so they think, however when chaos is released into the world it's not so easy to control where it goes. Strategically they have to decide if the chaos is too far out of control. If they had wanted Kerry to be President and wanted it badly he would have been, however, the fight for control isn't with us, it's within the Illuminati and they will always go on. But looking at the US and the rest of the world it would seem that there has been a disagreement that's broken out. George Soros and Warren Buffet's backing of Kerry indicates that. For now, it looks like other voices have prevailed.

Don't worry, they are not concerned about us except as breeders to continue the pattern. The abortion issue and the reduction of Sex Education in the schools with just teaching abstinence is to keep the population thriving. In case anyone hasn't noticed, the white man isn't reproducing at the same rate as Muslims, or Hispanics and the women in this country and western Europe haven't been as open to reproducing at the same rates of the past.

This is a simple explanation of a very complex web that was created centuries upon centuries ago and now we can watch the show.

Just Rec'd this email entitled:
[MillionVoteMarch] Please Don't Concede the Vote!!!!!!!!

You know, it seems that we have been in collective shock, at least that's what I think it is. They stole the election TWICE, and the second time while we were watching. We were stunned. And I personally was even more stunned by Kerry's quick concession. I still don't understand that.

But now that we're recovering, WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING, NOW!! Demand recounts, demand an investigation. See that all the votes are counted. Why can't we mobilize like we did with Sinclair? We won that one, we really did. They had their stupid little show, but it wasn't the one they wanted. Let's get over whatever is stopping us and do it again. Email and call your Democratic city or town council, your county council, your state council, the DNC, your senators, your representatives, the Sec. of State of each state, especially the swing states, esp. Ohio and Florida, especially where bush won that didn't match the exit polls, the FEC, every member of the National Association of State Election Directors, the sleezebags who let the electronic voting companies hire the "independent consultant" who did not test for security (and NASED didn’t seem to mind), letters to editors, and anyone else we can think of. everyone, and tell them WE WILL NOT STAND FOR A STOLEN FRAUDULANT ELECTION. WE WANT AN INVESTIGATION! WE WANT A RECOUNT! WE WANT EVERY VOTE COUNTED!

Send this on to all your friends, have them do it. WE CAN DO THIS! IT'S NOT EVEN A LITTLE HARD. ALL WE HAVE TO DO IS GET OUR FIGHT AND ENTHUSIASM BACK. COME ON. LET'S GO!!!!!!

Donna

I was talking to a friend about this. She's not as politically motivated as I am. She understood how I felt, but she asked, "isn't it a little futile?". I surprised myself when I told her, only if we stop now because at some point along the line, every fight looked futile until people kept pushing beyond that point and eventually won. What about apartheid? How long did Nelson Medala stay in prison? What about civil rights? WE CAN DO THIS. WE JUST CAN'T GIVE UP.

PLEASE PASS THIS ON:

WE WANT AN INVESTIGATION OF VOTER FRAUD! WE WANT EVERY VOTE COUNTED! WE WANT A RECOUNT! DON'T CONCEDE THE VOTE!!

LET'S DO IT MONDAY!! THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT!

We (the people) are planning as large an action as we can get going on Monday. Let's do this en masse. We are spreading the word on bulletin boards, chatrooms, groups. We are going to have a phoning, faxing and emailing blitz to our representatives, our senators, the Sec. of State of each state, especially the swing states, esp. Ohio and Florida, especially where bush won that didn't match the exit polls, the FEC, the democratic party, letters to editors, and anyone else we can think of. Please let me know if you think of anyone who should be added to this list. (See below)

The elections were stolen by the bush machine and we won't stand for it! We are going to let them know that by contacting as many officials as we can on the same day, Monday, and we will do it en masse. Come on everyone...we have a great group here. Please also put this info on the msg boards and send to absolutely everyone you know. When you call, tell them you want to talk to someone who will confirm they will do as you ask and that you would like a call back. Then keep calling back until you get someone.

Try to find the democrats who ran in your state/area who lost because the cheating was done on all levels. If we can find a senator or governor or someone whose numbers did not match exit polls, maybe we can get them to work with us. If we can find someone like that, we all need to get behind them because they will have a bigger voice than us.

Demand recounts, demand an investigation. See that all the votes are counted. Why can't we mobilize like we did with Sinclair? Let's get over whatever is stopping us and do it again. Email/call/fax your Democratic city committee, town committee, county committee, state committee, the DNC, the FEC, your senators, your representatives, the Sec. of State of each state, especially the swing states, esp. Ohio and Florida, especially where bush won that didn't match the exit polls, and tell them:
WE WANT AN INVESTIGATION OF ELECTRONIC VOTER FRAUD! WE WANT EVERY VOTE COUNTED!


Contact Elected Officials:
http://www.firstgov.gov/Contact/Elected.shtml
for senators, representatives and Sec. of State

Democratic National Commitee:
Main site: http://www.democrats.org/index.html
ALSO:http://www.democrats.org/feedback/
Email: (it's a form) http://www.democrats.org/contact/
Democratic National Commitee
430 S. Capitol St. SE
Washington, DC 20003
Phone 202/863-8000

Google for the chairs of your local and state Democratic Committees.

National Association of State Election Directors:This one is important!
http://cadca.org/CoalitionResources/ElectionGuide/EG-Appendix3.asp
Your local elections officials trusted a group called NASED -- the National Association of State Election Directors -- to certify that your voting system is safe. This trust was breached. NASED certified the systems based on the recommendation of an "Independent Testing Authority" (ITA) that was hired by the VENDORS OF THE ELECTRONIC VOTING MACHINES! CALL THEM ALL TO TELL THEM WHAT YOU THING OF THE JOB THEY DID! A list of all the state election directors, with phone numbers and their websites, can be found at http://cadca.org/CoalitionResources/ElectionGuide/EG-Appendix3.asp
Original story at http://www.blackboxvoting.org/

There is also a list of these directors at htttp://www.electioncenter.org/commit/nased/nased.html

Before writing to the committee members you have to obtain their authorization and e-mail address. You can click on the name to get the e-mail address request form. At that point there is a comments section, so you can express yourself there.

Federal Election Commission
999 E Street, NW, Washington
DC 20463 (800) 424-9530
In Washington (202) 694-1100
For the hearing impaired, TTY (202) 219-3336
The only email address we have is webmaster@fec.gov


More contacts to be added soon.We are also trying to get MoveOn, United for Peace and Justice, Code Pink,, ACT, etc. on board. If you have any connections there, please let me know and see if you can get them on involved in this.

WE WANT A RECOUNT! WE WANT AN INVESTIGATION! WE WANT EVERY VOTE COUNTED!

First, this is the "mandate" for bush, not the vote, but our rolling over and letting him steal the election. That's his mandate. Now he thinks he can get away with anything.

Second, if everyone who voted for Kerry started demanding a recount and/or investigation, they couldn't ignore us. They would have to do it. 55,000,000+ citizens DEMANDING a recount and/or investigation? Half of that? A quarter of that? We'd still blow them out of the water!!!!

Third, we were there for the Democratic Party. We donated money, made phone calls for Kerry-Edwards, MoveOn & ACT, registered voters, put up lawn signs, knocked on doors, monitored polls, etc. etc.

WE WERE THERE FOR THEM WHEN THEY NEEDED US!!!

NOW IT'S TIME FOR THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY AND THE CANDIDATES WE SUPPORTED TO BE THERE FOR US.

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."
- - Mahatma Ghandi

"If all that Americans want is security, they can go to prison. They'll have enough to eat, a bed and a roof over their heads. But if an American wants to preserve his dignity and his equality as a human being, he must not bow his neck to any dictatorial government."
- - Dwight D. Eisenhower

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."
-- Theodore Roosevelt

READ THIS AND ACT ON IT. THE VOTE IS NOT CERTIFIED
UNTIL DECEMBER.

Please read this release and email kinc@efn.org with
the words," I do not relinquish my vote." We are
asking for a full revote with paper ballots of the
states that had electronic voting equipment as well as
a complete count of absentee ballots. This count must
be performed by an impartial group of citizens with
full transparency and without any interference from
the self-appointed winners. We do not want this
election ratified in December because it was illegal.
Even now, there are absentee ballots not counted in
many states.

For additional information in the problems, please
visit www.stolenelection2004.com and rense.com to
review analysis already performed on the voting
irregularities.

Take a stand.

Nexxus,
I'm glad you found the Matthew material comforting. One thing bothered me. When anyone says they are or are channeling a high light being and then says they interfered with our choice that is a red flag. Karma is all about choice. Higher beings who have evolved did so because they learned the lessons of karma. Everything in life is a choice. Take away another's choice and there is karma.

I don't think the "channelers" mean harm, far from it as their intentions are to comfort in a stressful time. It is our choice to take what they have to say or not or part of. I wouldn't however believe they are in contact with true higher beings as they portray it. All of us at various points in our lives are in contact with higher evolved beings.

The downtrodden clerk, homeless person, or your friend may not be as glamourous as an otherworldly being, but they too have wisdom.

Thank you to the poster of Eric Francis' latest piece. It is outstanding!

Where to start, where to start. I don't have all the links handy, or time right now to find them. But I believe I read one article earlier that Kerry was going back to the Senate determined to fight the Bush admistration. It was also noted that he's going to polish up for the next election. I'm glad he's not going into the shadows and is going to fight, but I don't think he stands any better chance of winning next election. We need another candidate with more appeal. This election was about "anyone but Bush". We need a candidate who can stand on his own as a "for the candidate" rather than against the GOP's.

There was also an excellent article at Rense on the fundamentalists: http://www.rense.com/general59/godse.htm .

With only two years to go, write every democrat who has the guts to go after the electronic voting debacle. Remind them that it's their seat in Congress that could be robbed too! Maybe if they see enough facts, they will act on these requests. Don't stop writing.....make it a habit to remind them about the black box problem continuously.

Let the Democratic Party know what you think needs to be done to make their voting appeal stronger. That means polishing the platform to changing campaign tactics. Karl Rove has already said on 'Meet the Press' that dirty campaigns will continue, because they work. This is what the democrats and third parties will be up against.

From a personal standpoint, I would go farther than just boycott companies. Pay off as many debts as possible....especially credit cards if you have them and have the capability of doing so. This serves three purposes. It frees income to deal with the coming economic woes under Bush policies. It's money not being used to support one of the GOP supporting corporations, and hits the banks where it hurts (banking is a tool of the economic situation.)Lastly, find out what companies support the Democrats or third parties.....choose to support them instead of the companies that support the GOP.

If you know any fundies personally, give them copies of the articles on the net about the errors of their beliefs (several right how on buzzflash, rense and whatreallyhappened). You might be rejected, but you might also change a few minds, and every vote counts. Not all fundies are stupid. There is some turnover in the fundie movement.......out of it. Those with the capability to think, need the knowledge to deal with all those scriptures they are fed out of context.

The most powerful tool at our disposal right now is the net. Use it wisely to make facts known on any board that allows the discussion of politics. I try to contribute to newspaper discussion boards, because I know the paper's journalists read them from time to time. Use the net to let other anti-Bush people know they aren't alone, and that as a group there are things we can do in preparation for the next election. And be sure and write your local papers about legitimate news you see on the web....that they don't print. Insist they print those views if they want your support of their paper. Let them know you will not buy their papers if they only print pro-Bush policy articles. Remember Sinclair, and do the same with the TV stations.

I can't over emphasize not being depressed, when I know it's a difficult thing to do during this election let down. Just remember, that there is no law or act that can't be reversed later, if the repugs are outed and the voters make their voices heard loudly enough. Unfortunately, that doesn't help the men and women who will be killed at war during the years before such a reversal could occur....nor help with the suffering many will experience under Bush policies that are passed. But think two years ahead first....all those seats that will be up for election in 2006. The goal right now has got to be getting enough Democrats back in those seats to lessen the power of the Bush adminstration. A Democratic House or Senate could put restraints on Bush for the last two years. If you have the time, donate time in local politics so you have an active voice beyond the vote.

At least we have forwarning of what's to come, and can be prepared. The Bushies think it's going to get better...their mistake, and they won't be ready for the reprecussions.

Astrologers:

Does it make a big difference in your chart if you do not know exactly what time you were born? My mother told me I was born 20 minutes after she got to the hospital. Well, fine. She can't remember if it was 1:20 PM or 1:40 PM or somewhere in between. The birth certificate I requested from my State last March no longer gives the birth time. Now what? I would like to have my chart redone, but I want it to be accurate.

Patricia

Eric is always outstanding, but Sally once again beat me to the punch- he is absolutely obsessed with sex. Thanks for the reminder of Uranus going direct; earthquake time, wonder what else????????

I've got another Uranus prediction: Kerry will "unconcede" on the 12th.

Diotima... we can't wait two years, one year, six months, one day. There will be nothing left. I will not collude in the deaths of all I hold dear.

Peg... Francis is not obsessed with sex per se... he is obsessed with getting the info out of HOW that collective/individual kundalini energy is coopted & hoarded by monsters in order to commit omnicide. That's very political. And he's right on the money. Taurus/Scorpio axis.

JoannaOregon, as soon as I posted that, I knew I needed to amend it, lol. I think Eric could be a better seer if he were to de-emphasize the male-female aspects of energy in the physical sense. (There, maybe that's better? Such a hard time I have making myself coherent sometimes, damn natal Merc. on my asc.)

testing...

Sorry for the above post, I just wanted to make sure it would work for me, the security code is new to me!

I haven't posted here in a long time, but I've been reading avidly and I still love it. Nexxus, I'd just like to say I agree with you, I hold no rancor towards John Kerry---in fact, I think he's kind of sexy, too, but that's another issue!---and while his conceding is disappointing to me, I believe he really was convinced that the numbers weren't there. He's a former prosecutor and he's no fool. Yet I hope he's looking at the reports coming out, and I've also heard the rumors that his campaign is paying attention to the voter irregularities. I'm not an astrologer, so I won't even begin to figure out if he might un-concede. Even if he doesn't---and I think he probably won't---we must keep fighting about this, and examining it. If Bush has won illegitimately a second time, that's important. I'm all for Kerry running again in 2008 if that's what it takes. He came that close to winning, and he's immensely qualified. he'll have to start all over again, th nomination can't be handed to him, but he seems ready, and I think it's great. Nixon lost in 1960 in a very tight race, and ran again eight years later to win, after LBJ had imploded. I'm positive Bush will implode.

I also want to say to people who hate Kerry now, please read the campaign coverage in this week's Newsweek. I liked him even more---he's a good, wise, compassionate man, and he could have been---could be---a great president. I really feel for him, and I like him alot and miss him. He had a poor campaign, with conflicting advisers, but he came thisclose, even with the possible dirty tricks. That shows me there's no mandate for Bush, and many, many people wanted Kerry to win. That and the numbers---Reagan and Nixon won in electoral and popular landslides. Bush did NOT. There's no way we as progressives and Democrats can give up on our message of tolerance, love, compassion---the more "Christian" message, if you will, in philosophy. As the party horoscope reveals, Aquarius is individualistic, progressive by nature, a believer in the future. Taurus is ruled by Venus, and it's gentle, cultured, yet pragmatic. That religious fanaticism doesn't fit us. And Republicans in the 1990s and other times when they were out of power never gave up. They were brutual, weren't they, and now they're back in power. But they didn't accomodate us and try to be more like us. We have to do the same thing. We'll be respected if we talk about our own moral values, which are legion, and involve peace, justice, equality, and civil liberties and freedoms.

Another comment---I'm a member at Smirking Chimp, whose adminins have gone nazi- crazy this week, because they're locking any topics they deem CT (conspiracy theory) as well as ones they decide "bash" evengelicals, red states, etc. The admins are instead bashing their own members, and suppressing their free speech, IMO. Many members are turning on others and calling them wackjob conspiracy theorists. It's ugly. I've never seen this happen there, and I attribute it to the site's mention in The Nation magazine this week. Now they're all self-conscious. But I want to encourage this site to remain the place of free expression it is, where nastiness to eqach other is rightly not encouraged, but specualtion and dialogue and personal frustration at the events is! I've started reading more DU because of the sudden Ashcroftian crackdown at SC.

Tricia, I'm SOOOOO glad you posted that about Sm. Chimp. I posted something on the message board there this morning, and the Board Nanny just about took my head off in an e-mail. I told her that I hoped she had a very nice day, and left it at that, but MY GOSH! she was plumb nasty.

Melodramatic hogwash.

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pd:sorry, my english isn?t very good.
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Knellinger admitted to using iMesh in April, 2005, to run searches related to children engaging in sexual conduct. He downloaded three illegal videos, including one of a girl aged 10 or 11 who was performing a sex act on a man. The victim in that video was later identified by law enforcement officers, and her alleged abuser, Kenneth Freeman, remains a fugitive who is on the "15 Most Wanted" list of the United States Marshals Service, according to the FBI.
The guilty plea, made last Tuesday, came the same week that a former law professor was charged with possessing child porn on at least two PCs under his control. Murdaugh Stuart Madden Jr, 58, possessed an unspecified number of illegal images on machines issued by his former employer, Pace Law School in New York, and Santa Clara University Law School, where he was a visiting professor last year.
Madden faces ten years imprisonment and a fine of $250,000. According to a document filed last week with the US District Court in San Jose, California, he remained free and was to appear in court for arraignment on May 10. The prosecution is a result of an investigation by the Santa Clara (California) Police Department and the FBI.
Attempts to reach Madden were unsuccessful. His attorney, Tony Boskovich, last week told the Lower Hudson Online: "At this point, all I can say is he has had a long and distinguished career as a lawyer and law professor. We are reviewing the documents at this time." ®,
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religion and being a democrate are not compatable God does not believe in any thing the democrate party believes in. religous democrates are fony's pretenting to be religous so the won't thank of themselves as evil and immoral. based on logic being a Democrate and being religous is obsurd. God does not believe in killig babies or embryos or homosexuality or taking gods own spoken words the 10 commandments out of judicail system or god out of the plege of allegence or dividing gods land Isreal (Palestinean state)etc etc these are things Dems believe in. quite fooling yourself. you absolutly can NOT be sincerly religous and be a Democrate they are NOT compatable based on logic and facts, quite your trickery its the devils work try to get your soul back from the antichrist he is your puppit master.