I am sure that Theresa Heinz Kerry is happy as hell and that she read on this column that the
inaguaration chart was one from hell.

Remember how Tipper Gore played the drums like a
madwoman the night Al lost.

Two bright ladies with vision.

Thank you Isabelle. I wish Scarlett had been running the election... we might have the 'winner' making plans for a new administration. She was a 'go to' gal... had a different concept of 'Tara' too, one she got from her Irish father, who immigrated to this country and received the dream and objective of all Irish... land!

Yes, it does depend on what defines 'success' for the native, doesn't it? What are good and bad transits, indeed. I've always thought a few squares or oppositions necessary for growth... otherwise, one slides along the trines. No bumps in the road, but no growth either.

We talked about this election... 'October Surprise'... the possibility of theft from the emachines... but as Sally said about not realizing the extent of the brainwashing of the public, I didn't realize the extent of my own cognitive dissonance. I knew the machines were in place... but I believed on Tuesday when the exit polls started coming in... the polls were reporting high numbers... I saw the crowds with my own eyes... but I 'forgot' the 'machines'...

My Dad said Faux Noos started out at 7:00 looking dejected, making excuses for Bush's loss... etc. then everything changed later in the evening...

Big sleight of hand that one was, eh!

I respect your astrological interpretations... and you are right, there was no 'crystal ball' ---

Let's see where the next few weeks take us... after Uranus turns...

Thank you Isabelle for your comments and for your talents... namaste

Posted, November 4, 2004
Hersh says he's sullen and worried, but not leaving the U.S.

Washington Post Live Online
"Leave America, and leave it to them? No way. Got to slug it out," Seymour Hersh says in a chat. He's asked why the news media "isn't making more of a stink" about the secretive White House. His reply: "The major media have been part of the problem since 9-11, merely because they have far too often taken the president's public utterances at face value. There also is a terrific unwillingness, perhaps understandable (though not by me), to make a moral judgment about a president's policies. There are plenty of people on the inside who are worried about the policies, especially among military guys, and I'm sure their views will increasingly become known."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.poynter.org/content/content_view.asp?id=73940

Pat C.,

Re your comment last thread on 18180...

How 'bout this address, in the state of Ohio?

DeLuca Chrysler Plymouth Jeep Inc

Contact Info:
(440) 232-0880

Location Info:
18180 Rockside Road, Bedford, OH 44146

Okay, please forgive me, but this has always confused me, so I'm going to dive in and be selfish (something that's difficult to do for this Aries North Node) and ask: In my Natal Chart I have Sag creeping over the Cusp from my 4th into my 5th by just a few degrees. In fact, the cusp seperating the 4th and 5th Houses is 27Sag02. Now, does this mean that Sag rules my 5th House? And would Pluto moving through Sag be affecting the 5th House? Or is it when Pluto actually moves THROUGH the House that you'd see change, etc.?

I know, I know ... not supposed to ask questions like this. But I've decided to channel my grief and anger into learning (FINALLY) the basics of astrology (cardinal? mutable? fixed? what the ... ?) and I think that's a good place to start for today.

Thanks, all.

Hey Isabelle,
Your predictions were right on. I think they do mean the unravelling of Bush's career. Getting elected may not be a "win" or "good thing" as we think of it here in the physical realm. Astology is all about learning and sometimes finding out we did interpret the energy correctly - just not the seemingly good or bad effects of certain events at face value. So in some hidden mysterious way - Bush's re-election is a good thing for Kerry and an unravelling for Bush.

I want to thank you for doing the Bush chimp's solar return chart as well - it certainly does not look good, in fact it seems like a lot of anger and agression will be coming his way soon. Let's all look forward to his solar return chart playing itself out.

Keep making predictions - we all benefit from the learning experience and I have never expected astrologers, including myself, to be perfect.

Also, I hope everyone will read this.
This is where Vedic may have an edge on Western as far as predictions goes. This is a prediction by one of the best vedic astrologers out there, Chakrapani Ullal - his prediction chilled me because I knew he is one of the best and he did predict a slight edge for Bush in this election. (this is a great learning tool as well)

Comments on the 2004 US Election by Chakrapani Ullal Written May 31st 2004

http://www.chakrapani.com/articles/election2004.htm

Jonathan, Sagittarius would be in both house influencing them. Pluto would influence your 5th house while it's in Sag then it will go to Capricorn and be a different kind of influence while or application on the 5th house matters.

The Only Way to Learn Astrology is a great series for you to have some of these questions answered for yourself.

Nexxus, I know well known vedic astrologers with a better reputation for accuracy that the gentleman you quote and they gave Kerry the edge, so it's still a close and wide open ballgame

Hi Jonathan,
The sign on the cusp of any house carries the house unless it is intercepted (a sign inside of a house). Consider your 5th house a Sag house. It's ruler being Jupiter in your chart. Right now Pluto is at 20 Sag so it hasn't even made it to your 5th house yet. In my opinion you will not even notice a Pluto transit until long after it is over. It's a very slow change. So, yes you will experience some 5th house Pluto stuff as it goes through,...but you may not notice it until much much later. I have found Pluto changes to be almost unidentifiable because the change happens so slowly.

Captain Sally, what about Uranus going direct a week or so from now? What impact might it have on our national "scene" (debacle is probably more accurate at the moment--and for four years to come if the ones that seem to be coming will indeed be the ones that . . . oh, dammit, I cannot continue with that word series (which I embarked upon in an effort to be a bit amusing) I'm so addled.)

(I'm very curious as I have 3 degrees Pisces on the IC and I'm wondering if I should be thinking Canada or Costa Rico or the Channel Islands or . . . )

Anybody ever study Richard Houck's predictions? He was so good at predicting the winner of any election that he would wager $5,000 on it. He also worked for many prominent white house officials whom he could not name. He never missed. I have intensely studied his book "The Astology of Death", but I have yet to learn his special secret for prediction the winner of an election. I know he has it down to one influence and I believe it is tertiary Pluto -but I need more details!

Does anybody have this info?

Sadly he died at an early age just shortly after entering his Jupiter dasha - what a loss!

Iabelle your article was wonderful. To Nancy I would like to remind her of the article she wrote on June 20th, 2004 about Iscara. I think it just fits now. All of you are so good! Don't quit! I forgot to say the name of the article was "The Pit."

Jonathan, does Pluto aspect any planets as it slowly journeys through the 5th? While some may experience Pluto transits internally, my personal experience was devastating and manifested in my relationship with my husband. Pluto conjuncted Venus and he left taking everything of value with him. Sally was right. The Only Way to Learn Astrology is fantastic. Lots of examples in those books.

By the way - Richard Houck predicted Bush would "win" in 2000, but that it would be a mess and a clear winner would not emerge right away.

I will search for his article and post a link. He was a Vedic astrologer who also fused Western techniques to the equation.

Excuse the ignorance, but what is tertiary Pluto?

Maybe Bush is just "getting what he deserves" as predicted by his Saturn Return. He created a mess. Now he has to clean it up.

Well, yeah, Mark, Bush may indeed be getting what he deserves, but that won't make it any easier for us.

I shudder to say this, but isn't Bush having his Jupiter return now?

With the Jupiter return comes optimism, exuberance, and rewards that you don't necessarily earn. Can't it also bring overreaching? Contrary to what Marjorie Orr is saying, Bush seems to be very ambitious in laying out his agenda for the next term...

Would the more difficult aspects trump the Jupiter return, or would the Jupiter return trump the others? Or are they just a package deal?

Hi Teresa,
Houck used tertiary progressions as his strongest predictive tool, especially when a tertiary planet went stationary (power in the case of Pluto) in fact he stated that Lieberman's stationary Pluto was the only thing Gore had going for him in the 2000 election. (I so much wanted for Gore to win) It is much like secondary progressions - just that it uses a faster mechanism than "a day for year" as with secondary. I have used tertiary progressions and found that they work...but now where near the understanding of Houck.

Nexxus, thanks but what are they? I know secondary progressions are day for a year, but are tertiary progressions like a day for a month or what?

BTW, astrologers,based on Kerry's chart, do you think he wanted to win?

These are my GUT feelings about what has transpired - 2004 elections were also arranged and stoled by rogue rove for his boss shrub - both
in OH and FL this time. Last time in 2000, it was
a very shoddy, sloppy stealing with jeb, harris etc, but was so so shoddy, the whole world knew it
This time around, the crooks were utmost sophisticated in how to steal an election and done
covertly spraying wool over everyone's eyes and got bolder stealing from 2 states namely,OH and FL
while last time the stealing was in one state-FL.

But I'm not at all worried; 20008 onwards for next 12 years, Democrats are going to be at the helm and repugs stealing won't work. Why? this bozo already has tun the country in to a DEEP hole
the last 4 years and folks country is going into
the deepest hole courtesy this bozo shrub and by 2008 the whole country would be FED up with these
unfit,incapable cons that would be the end of these repugs at least for 10 to 12 years from 2008

Ok guys I found Houcks former apprentice (he has his secrets!) YES! His name is Christopher Kevill and he did predict the 2004 election accurately.

Read this:
http://www.modernvedicastrology.com/articlesUsElections2004.html

This is why I do both vedic and western astrology.

Teresa,
Tertiary progressions are offered in Solar Fire as an option when you do progressions. It's based on the moon rather than the sun (and we know how fast the moon moves!) I will post more describing it later because I need the book to describe it (it's been a while for me...)

My analysis is that Kerry is a fighter through and through!!! He gave up due to pressue from his aides and his wife was pissed off too. Did you guys see how intensely strong her chart is (her 4th house)? She is one opinionated lady and I think she was so PO'ed at the stupidity of the American public that she said "we're through John"!

A word to the wise - Senators rarely get elected
President.

So Please stop thinking in terms of Hillary Clinton...she, too, wouldn't make it. Governors
do best.

http://hnn.us/roundup/comments/6727.html

I will NOT stop thinking in terms of voting for someone who's incredibly intelligent, a hard worker, ambitious for his or her constituents and would make (and, as a -- YES -- Senator, IS making) a good leader. To say someone doesn't usually get elected because they're a Senator is just hog-wash. Perhaps historically that is true, but it shouldn't be something someone as allegedly intelligent as you, wv, should use as criteria as to whether or not they could do the job. Me thinks your personal bias is coloring your view.

I'd elect an Eskimo or an Indian Chief if I thought they'd be a good person to lead our Country as a WHOLE.

So, whether you like it or not, wv, I'll continue to think of Hillary and, should she decide to run, will work my ass off to help her.

We don't yet live in a dictatorship where people tell me what to believe.

I was actually physically ill after the election my friends. I took the day after to muddle in this deep depressive state, with the curtains closed, the lights off, the dogs nearby as comfort and I just spent the day thinking and thinking, hoping..praying a light would go off in my head that would make sense of it all. A thought that would give me relief from the chaos in my mind and the heavy sense of disbelief. Yes, a whole day dedicated just to grieve! It certainly does feel like someone has died.

Someone didn't die, but something did...my long held beliefs about our country:

I always believed I lived in a GREAT country. Great because it was born with a constitution and a declaration of independence that was crafted way ahead of its time by men who were wise and brilliant. A document of freedom that empowered every man, women and child.

Now those documents are being altered and reinterpreted in the name of fear, power and greed. The men who are rewriting these documents are hungry wolves. My country was a democracy and is fast becoming a theocracy. The founders are rolling in their graves.

I always believed that the leaders of this country had the intelligence and wisdom to use history as a teacher.

Today, our past history has become today's wars. Nothing has been learned. History is being re-written and distorted to justify illegitimate wars.

I always believed Americans were the luckiest, generous people in the world.

Today, Americans are in a trance, selfishly consuming over 25% of the world's resources and refusing to look within themselves to discover the source of their unhappiness. It is, they unconsciously reason, much easier and comfortable to toe the company line and project the evil "out there". Americans are some of the unhappiest and fearful people in the world despite their material riches.

I always believed that people of truth and freedom would be able to prevail despite the odds.

Now, I realize that good people can only watch, their voices silenced, as the darkness prevails.

Take care my dearest friends. You are such a wonderful spirits for this planet...just do your thing and bring on the light!

Wow Tanga, I am with you. Something died within all of us yesterday (who don't have our heads up our asses). Something doesn't feel right about America right now. I was also physically ill (solar plexus aching)- haven't left the house for 2 days. We all know a crook pulled a fast one over on America and we lost the good guy (Kerry) who really was fighting for the people.

But, thanks to the astrological predictions for Bush in 2006 - I am now one happy camper. I think understanding can break our sorrow. There MUST be a reason for this. I think now it is so Bush will fall DURING the presidency (like Nixon). He enters a nasty Mercury Dasa in 2006. This should do it for Karma to do it's thing. And who knows, Kerry may have been shot and killed by some fundie wacko as President.

..."While Bush will prevail this year, he still has Tecumseh's curse to contend with, not to mention a nasty Mercury dasha that begins in early 2006".... Christopher Kevill

by stealing and clinging onto WH, bozo shrub is also inadvertently prolonging the CURSE on himself
I mean the curse on WH occupants on years 20,40,60
80 and 00 in the case of shrub bozo.If he had relinquished the WH by not continuing to steal in 2004 also, the curse would have snapped off him but by stealing again in 2004 and clinging onto WH
I think the above emtnioned curse is still ON him!

Howdy, Raj! I think many of us are wondering if the country will even survive until 2008. Hope you had a nice visit in the East. Good to have you back.

And, Jonathan, what's wrong with Eskimos and Indian Chiefs? Some of us are of mixed heritage, you know.

Some of the posters on electiondayafter mentioned the progressed sun going into Pisces (and of course, Uranus has also, and we are here at the end of the age of Pisces). Suddenly, what flashed before my eyes was the scene from the movie with Heston, where he comes down from the mountain and sees the Israelites dancing around the golden calf....is this the last gasp of the Christians? It appears to me that most of them haven't learned a damn thing in 2000 years....
We, the earth that is, are leaving the sign of Pisces, or the age of Pisces, which started about 2500 years ago, before the time of Christ. The previous change in the ages happened when the Israelites were driven out of Egypt, at the end of the age of Taurus, becoming the age of Aries (the blood of the lamb, the passover....the age of the Ram). The whole symbology of Moses going up the mountain and returning to find the people dancing around the golden calf (it had shrunk from the Taurean Bull symbol) illustrates what is happening now....as an age ends, people intensify their need to have it be the way it used to be.....and the age of Christ is now passing into the age of Aquarius (but there is no exact date for it...I believe we are in the transition stage and have been since midcentury 1950). People are dancing around the cross and rejoicing....and by all appearances, it looks as if none of them have learned a damn thing. And in place of the passover and the blood of the lamb, we have the belief in the Rapture, which all good Christians of the evangelical kind believe will take them straight to heaven.

This is about, for our country, 2 visions of spirituality. We are now a theocracy. The astrological symbol of Christianity is two fish....one swimming up stream, one swimming down stream. The ruler of Pisces is Neptune....which also rules OIL, as well as delusion, illusion, alcohol and drug addiction, as well as all things creative and imaginative. AND Christ is supposed to return.

That is the underlying problem....these guys are using the energy to create this theocracy....the planets are lined up to help out....and the energy is SO real to these folks that Bush and Rove could tell them to fly without and airplane and they would do it. And the rest of us liberals? We are the DEVIL. Watch...it is going to get much much worse.

Really enjoying these posts, but must do some things....Bushfatigued, you are gone and reborn as Starry Nights? cool...!

Jonathan I am posting annonymously due to the fact that I am a regular poster and do not want to start a flame war. However, in defence of wv, you of all people should not be sensitive to others making pronouncements as if you are the site authority. I remember you telling others that their posts were inappropriate as they wandered from astrology or did not agree with your astrological viewpoint. We all make pronouncements rhetorically and its up to others to choose to agree or ignore us.

"A moving protest snarled traffic for more than an hour in downtown Bellingham Wednesday afternoon and brought police in riot gear before ending."

Portland, too!

Go-Go-Pacific Northwest! Home of the Wobblies!

Are you optimistic about Smirky's second term in office (barf!)?

Go vote:

http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/wolf.blitzer.reports/

Isabelle, thanks for the hopeful reminder. We all need it now.

Nexxus, I hate to wish bad things on people...but boy, I'm hoping ** gets his comeuppance because I think he's one mean man.

Jonathan, I understand how you feel. I think Hillary would make a great president but how do you convince people that a strong capable woman can be trusted? But WV has a point. We have had senators become president, Kennedy comes to mind immediately, but more governors, FDR, Reagan, Carter, Clinton and even Bush Jr. Maybe it's the executive skills that are more easily transferred to the presidency.

I'm backing off here as I feel the effects of this election boiling inside me like a volcano, and I'd hate to upset the delicate sensibilities of Anonymous Posters with any lava-like anger. Ta for now.

In other words, I'm sick of bullshit and need a cookie.

Day the Enlightenment Went Out
By GARRY WILLS

Published: November 4, 2004

This election confirms the brilliance of Karl Rove as a political strategist. He calculated that the religious conservatives, if they could be turned out, would be the deciding factor. The success of the plan was registered not only in the presidential results but also in all 11 of the state votes to ban same-sex marriage. Mr. Rove understands what surveys have shown, that many more Americans believe in the Virgin Birth than in Darwin's theory of evolution.This might be called Bryan's revenge for the Scopes trial of 1925, in which William Jennings Bryan's fundamentalist assault on the concept of evolution was discredited. Disillusionment with that decision led many evangelicals to withdraw from direct engagement in politics. But they came roaring back into the arena out of anger at other court decisions - on prayer in school, abortion, protection of the flag and, now, gay marriage. Mr. Rove felt that the appeal to this large bloc was worth getting President Bush to endorse a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage (though he had opposed it earlier)~more. . .

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/04/opinion/04wills.html

shylurker,
Glad to be back, though in such somber atmosphere,
people looking in gloom and doom, even as the bozo
and the gang are crowning themselves after the day
light robbery of WH. In fact, I was on our favorite BLOG since last night, blogging our sorrow away, shylurker but I am prepared to bide
my time and am extremely optimistic that OUR time
WILL start 2008 onwards for atleast 10 to 12 years
So if we could wait from 2000 to 2004 why not from
2004 to 2008, when things will FALL on OUR side for CERTAIN!

smirky's running pessimistic on wolf's CNN by 60 to 40 and I don't blame'em. the bozo run this country in to big hole last 4 years and don't surprised if next 4 years, shrub and the unfit gang run us into a bottomless abyss(the imbecile
doesn't have brain to do anything elese!) so forget about anything else happeing to good old usa once the red necks from the south and midwest
put the humpty dumpty on the wall - it's all over the shouting. That's how the Democrats will revive themselves in 2008(actually be default!) there's no otherway, you can nullify these brainless rednecks in the country and rural america!

"A word to the wise - Senators rarely get elected President.

So Please stop thinking in terms of Hillary Clinton...she, too, wouldn't make it. Governors do best."

wv, I think, at this point, I'll be happy with whatever we get.

The three most recent Democratic presidents were also from the South, but now, Southern Democratic officeholders are becoming rare.

The good news is that Bill Clinton came out of nowhere; in 1988, he was the guy who made the long-winded speech, which people cheered when he said "finally." Four years later, he was elected President.

The UK's Mirror has a picture of Bush and a headline of HOW CAN 59,017,382 PEOPLE BE SO DUMB?

The Guardian (UK) has a huge black field background and in very small white caps: Oh, GOD.

If you all can stomach it, Grover Norquist is going to be interviewed by Bill Moyers tonight on NOW....PBS....he's going to talk about what they are going to do for the next 4 years. Like drown government and drag it down the drain, which is what Norquist has said they are going to do....

Jonathan

No need to get your knickers in a knot! I googled
the question "How Many Senators have become
President?" Two in the 20th Century Harding and
Kennedy, both died in office. Few Presidents in
this Republic started in the Senate - that is
history...I didn't make it up.
Already there is much talk about Hillary in '08 -
and she may very well be the candidate. However,
no one will unite the red states like Hillary -
they loathe her, and Rove would do a number on her
like you wouldn't believe.
Frankly, I don't give a damn how you vote. It is
none of my business. I can tell you this however
this was the last election that I vote for someone
I really don't support.
When Hillary apologized for giving Mrs Arafat a peck on the cheek she lost me. She, like her husband, puts her finger up to test the wind, then
forms her opinions. Unfortunately, the wind can
change at any moment.
And I certainly think we need a unifier, and to
some 50 million plus that voted in this election
Hillary isn't it.
You had better forget Paris and start ringing
doorbells now.

Wow Judy - Can you post links to those publications??? I would love to see it!

The UK's Mirror has a picture of Bush and a headline of HOW CAN 59,017,382 PEOPLE BE SO DUMB?

The Guardian (UK) has a huge black field background and in very small white caps: Oh, GOD.

from the DU:
MinnesotaMike31 (97 posts) Thu Nov-04-04 03:22 PM
Original message
"A dark day in America" Read this. WOW!!!

Written by a undergraduate student at the University of Massachusetts. Link for the whole article at bottom of this post. Here is an exert of the article:

Shame on you, American people. You were given a lot of facts and you ignored them, focusing more on whether you liked Bush's "confident" swagger than Kerry's more reserved style. Stylistic issues took precedence over hard facts. My message to Red States and Republicans: I don't want to see a single tear about dead soldiers anywhere on the globe from Red States or Republican families. You've forfeited your right to be legitimately to be angry about our embroilments abroad when you voted for the man who sent your sons/daughters to die unnecessarily. I don't want to hear laments about how we find ourselves still quagmired in Iraq and the President is saber-rattling about starting a War with Iran. I don't want to hear about how you felt uncomfortable in your last trip to pretty much all of Europe, Asia, Africa, or Latin America. I don't want to see a single cry of surprise or outrage if another terrorist attack does occur....we've had ample evidence to prove that Bush's arrogance has proved a recruiting boon for equally angry radical Islamists in the Middle East. We've made that easier for them, and an attack more likely. I don't want to hear a single complaint about gas prices going up or a Republican losing his job or the economy deepening its inequality...you knew who you were electing in this election and you knew his record on the economy. I don't want to hear about another "hero" who has died in foreign lands. If they truly were our heroes, we wouldn't have elected this President, which will assure that they stay in harm's way for more unnecessary reasons and for longer times. If you get searched on some airplane and detained at an airport, don't act indignant that they stopped you (a Republican); instead reflect on how you made it possible for the "big brother" government to continue, and worsen. If you have any integrity left, Republicans and Red States, you will suck up all "second-thoughts" in the Bush 2nd term and spare us, the Democrats, the pain, anger and anguish of having to say, "not only did we TELL YOU SO, you could see it for yourself for the last 4 years!". You knew...damnit, you knew what you were doing...and you still gave power to this dangerous fool.

http://www.canadiancontent.net/commtr/article_714.html

AND you must go to Michael Moore's web site and see his words on the election http://www.michaelmoore.com

nexxus...I got the photos in an email...I'll forward it to you....

Now, see, Starrynights, you're going to have to cast your starlight on the path before us so we can see our way through the next four abysmal years until we emerge into the sunlight as predicted by Raj.

(It's ok, Jonathan, we're all in recovery right now. It's just that one of my fourth great-grandfathers was a Catawba-Cherokee Sub-Chief, so I was a little taken aback. Hope your cookie is a delicious chocolate chip.)

Nexxus, I took several courses from Richard Houck and he used Tertiary, Dasa/Bukti's, and Minor progressions. He himself said he could accurately predict outcomes 60 percent of the time using these methods. Lots of astrologers use them. His most famous book on how to predict death has proven to be a disappointment and so his methods have fallen by the wayside, he also had another book on his methods and it was ripped by Richard Nolle (another astrologer) I do think his information is valuable.

That's a bunch of total BS, I read above original
write up by some imbecile gary wills of NY Times.
Talk about the idiocity of rowe(guy is no genius
for heavens' sake);if he is real genius, he would helped his crony bozo shrub to thumping electoral
wins by margins of over 200 and 250 elctoral votes
in 2000 and 2004 and not sneaking thru by stealing
state of FL in 2000 and stealing states of FL and
OH in 2004 and still winning by the margin of just
OH(20 electoral votes) in 2004. This is like genius NFL coach squeaking by OT 3 pt field goals
in super bowls twice and by working up the striped zebras for some atrocious calls against the opposing side! this rowe is all total garbage
as far as a genius strategist is concerned.Yes, the guy can fool 52 million uneducated rural rednecks for sure who think he is their god, while
the educated people here know he is a daylight robber this country has ever SEEN in the last 100 years for SURE!

WV....I always have defended Hillary....I like her, and I think she has gotten a raw and disrespectful deal....which now appears to be what is going to happen to any liberal woman running in politics with Rove behind it (or the Rovian clones, which surely are in training right now). I doubt that Mother Teresa or Jesus could get a fair fight anymore. But you are so right....she has been branded so thoroughly by the right as a target that she may be useless for a long time, unless her senate career affords her some power. I get so upset at how women are treated in this country....my art rep actually said to me the other day that women needed to be less bitchy and more respectful....and that is the same thing I hear from other women to the right....so they end up, like Hillary, testing the wind to stave off criticizm, thereby loosing all their effectiveness. Sort of the way some are criticizing the Dems. I agree....I think people should be FOR something, and not apologize for it.

Raj....I got that Garry Wills article by email...it is excellent...what made you 'go off' on him like that? Rove is a genius....an evil genius. Doesn't bother me to say he's a genius. What bothered you?

Thanks Sally for that info about Houck, I would like to read about Richard Nolles opinion of his methods...I will check out his site. I must say I am still thrilled by "The Astology of Death" and have found much of his observations about the subtle spiritual karmic clues in charts to be very beneficial.

Judy - thanks for sending the photos - it's reassuring to see that others think we're in the American twilight zone as well.

They did steal Florida. Take it from me. I worked Florida, there was intensity, far more K/E signs than B/C signs. I am in a state of denial. I truly believe it was stolen.

In the St. Pete Times today it was total Democrat-bashing. Kerry-bashing. This surprised me because they were for Kerry and endorsed him.

Kerry energized me more than any candidate has ever done so before. Even though he was not my first choice, once he got the nod I took a second look at him and decided it was the wiser choice. He did everything right, he was our man for the hour and he was brilliant. I saw him 4 times in person (it helps to live in a battleground state!) His rallies were immense and wonderful, everyone was just beside themselves.

Election night my family and I were dancing around the house when we saw the exit polls. He was going to win. What happened? They could not be that wrong. Zogby cannot be that wrong.

It was stolen. A little programming goes a long way. My heart is broken.

Oh yes, forgot to mention. I poll watched all day at my precinct and people came in with T-shirts on that were Bush-bashing, hats that had K/E stickers on them, I could tell the K/E voters from the B/C voters, and I took a count.

When I looked up my County, it was EXACTLY 5% more for Bush than my count had been (for my particular precinct). Do the math. Something like a fish smells in Florida.

"What's going to happen if President Bush is reelected?"

That's a question I heard a lot last month. My answer was simple: we'll be
shell-shocked for a day, and then NRDC will come out fighting for the
environment like there's no tomorrow.

Well, the shock has set in. We've spent the better part of four years
publicizing and challenging the president's assault on our forests, western
wildlands and wildlife habitats. As a tax-deductible organization, NRDC could
not oppose or support a candidate for president. But a lot of hopes were pinned
on the ballot box as the fastest way to terminate the Bush administration's
giveaways to logging, timber and mining companies.

Those hopes were dashed yesterday. The president prevailed, despite his
horrific environmental record, which remains at odds with the views of the
overwhelming majority of Americans.

We're stunned not so much by the outcome itself. After all, President Bush was
a slight favorite to win this election. No, the look of distress on faces all
around NRDC's offices today is true alarm at what lies ahead. As sweeping as
this administration's attack on the environment has been, things are about to
get worse. Perhaps much worse.

It was only the threat of the ballot box -- of answering to the American
people -- that caused the Bush administration to backburner many of its most
destructive plans. The White House has already signaled that the attacks of the
past four years are but the leading edge of a much broader assault that will
come in a second term.

Look for it to begin over the next few weeks with new attempts to auction off
vast stretches of our Alaskan rainforest for clearcutting . . . open Greater
Yellowstone and other beloved wildlands to oil and gas drilling . . . and hand
over the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge to giant oil companies.

So, yes, take one full day for feeling shell-shocked.

But prepare yourself. Tomorrow the battle will be joined. And we must be ready.

You can take heart in this: thanks to your support, NRDC and our BioGems
campaigns have succeeded in stalling, blocking or sinking the worst of
President Bush's attempts so far to exploit and destroy our last wild places.

And let me tell you, the second Bush administration will have to contend with
an NRDC that now wields the most potent combination of grassroots activism,
courtroom power and media outreach ever assembled by one public interest
organization.

That impressive operation -- one million Members and BioGems Defenders, scores
of attorneys, the best rapid response operation in the business -- will be
focused like a laser on stopping the onslaught to come.

Failure is not an option. Everything we have fought for and achieved over the
past 35 years is at stake. In the weeks ahead, I will be reporting to you in
more detail on NRDC's action plan for defending our last wild places during
President Bush's second term.

But I can share one key element of that plan right now: you. We're counting on
you to stay the course with our BioGems campaigns. We need your outrage. We
need your activism. If we have those, we are going to prevail.

Sincerely,

John H. Adams
President
Natural Resources Defense Council

Laurie - you are right!!!

I am in St. Pete, FL , where are you? Our entire cirt was covered with Kerry signs 3 to 1 over Bush signs.

I truly supect something amiss...everyone I have talked to does here.

I think Blackboxvoting.org is petitioning for a full audit of all electronic voting machines.

Florida was rigged guys - we are KERRY people!

Florida was democratic for over 20 years and all of the sudden Jeb Bush comes in from Texas and takes the Governors position in a Democratic state? What????

Lets' stay in touch - all of us who feel Florida was rigged and call for an audit!

This MUST be investigated.

Judi Gem,
Ya, the article from NY Times but I disagree totally that rowe can be branded anywhere near as
genius;yes rowe is a BIG TIME CROOK who can fool
uneducated rednecks amounting to 55 million in the
rural and countryside of america for sure;I don't
dispute that at all but people even with an iota of brain won't be swayed by him; as far as I'm concerend he sways the uneducated in the south and
midwest like a CULT head will do. My question is
if he is all that genius cracked out to be he must have helped shrub winn by atleast 150 electoral votes in 2000 and by even bigger landslide in 2004 by over 200/250 electoral votes and not squeak by just FL state in 2000 by stealing every one knew from Greg Palast to all the Pacifica stations and in 2004 helps to win by
sophisticated stealing not one state but 2 states
namely FL and OH and so I'm not that stupid to buy
rowe's so called "genius", my foot!

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/041104/480/dcpm10511041821

Here we go again.

I just re-read this post and it turned out very lengthy so I hope I haven't taken up too much space.

These posts have been extremely moving, healing, cathartic, and eye-opening today. Thank G-d for this website (as well as DU) as you guys have given me all sorts of ideas and tools with which to cope. I'm extremely glad to see all of you doing well enough to join in and express yourselves, honestly & eloquently as usual. Thanks, Pallas, for thinking of me :-)

I, too, have been heartsick, depressed and nursing my wounds. Today I'm a a little better. Worked for the campaigns for 3 days, until Tues. night when we served as poll counters for Kerry HQ, calling in the tallys. The precint we counted was largely African American and results were at least 90% Democratic.

My husband & I are both independent contractors so we can take time off. We had nothing scheduled yesterday so to avoid being at home, we went to a Girl Scout luncheon/fundraiser. I would not talk to anyone, especially anyone who looked Republican. But there was one exceptionally bubbley & friendly "Republican-looking" woman who immediately told me I had won the centerpiece because they had checked under everyone's plate & mine was the one with silver stars under it. Small consolation for losing the Presidency AND Senate in Louisiana but I felt G-d was at least trying to make me feel better. I ended up telling her that I was extremely crushed by the election results and she simulated empathy.

The presentations then came on. They were all about how the emotionally chaotic lives of young inner city, abused and abandoned girls are transformed into productive lives filled with self-esteem by the Girl Scouts. Then it dawned on me...

Probably the best solution was to look at people as just people, the best I could (keeping a low profile when I couldn't) and just keep working at helping those who needed it. I was really drawn to volunteering with the Girl Scouts but for the time being gave a donation to this worthy cause.

My husband had read the exit polls/electronic voting machine correlation and was "99%" positive that the election was stolen. I told him to stop telling that to everyone as, until there was something more conclusive and less circumstantial, people would think he was just a sore loser.

Now, I read today that evidence is slowing materializing. I can only hope that it is substantial. If it isn't, I will be happy for JFK for not being in the position of being directly blamed for the Republican mess, because he surely would be.

There certainly are momentous energies moving right now - the U.S. election, Elizabeth Edwards with Ca, Yassa Arafat dying or dead.

And now this thing about Republicans winning by 18,180 votes in 5 states?!!!!!! Is this really true? I don't know if even this could hold up, but I will tell you something interesting about the number 18. The Kaballah says that in Hebrew numerology, "18" represents LIFE. It is the numerical equivalent of the word "chai" or life (also my own Hebrew name).

Then, think about it - 666 = 18. Maybe 18 is some sort of antidote to 666?

(By the way, I believe that Greg Pallast's theory of spoiled votes that were thrown away in African American or minority areas has the most substance as it can at least be proved.)

Lastly, I spoke to someone interested in buying real estate today. It turned out he was evangelical. What came out was that he felt we had to fight the devil as the devil was influencing the terrorists, those who killed little babies and those who believed that Fred & Ned should marry. Up until then, I saw him as a very bright person. I continued to, although I then realized he was blinded by his beliefs. In other words, brainwashed. I mentioned to him that we were all brainwashed to some degree. He agreed. He went on to tell about this chip that Walmart and other retailers will implant in their merchandize to track us! The government is behind it, he said. I said that if this were true (???), there was a direct link to The Patriot Act. He agreed!!! He agreed yet he voted for Bush!!!!

It will be a real trick getting through this kind of belief because, frankly, these are frightened people who feel they must accept all this in order to be protected by G-d. The entire package must be accepted.

I think the only way to get through is to be nice to them, win their friendship, and show them that we, too, are nice people. Then, maybe at some point, events in the world will cause them to modify their world view, whether it is a loved one who died in Iraq or something else.

Namaste,
Sharon

Isabelle,

I loved your delineation. the Mars/Uranus and
Mars/Moon transits should mean we'll see the true
dimson - mad as a hatter -

unfortunately more war like and foolish risk taking in his insanity too. But I'll enjoy the entire world seeing his craziness - maybe they'll even take the little black bag away from him as they did with Nixon.

- - - - - - - -

You have to hand it to the Brits. They lay it on the line. I hope the redneck from crawford is enjoying his world wide popularity:

"The UK's Mirror has a picture of Bush and a headline of HOW CAN 59,017,382 PEOPLE BE SO DUMB?"

"The Guardian (UK) has a huge black field background and in very small white caps: Oh, GOD."

Little Steven (of the E Street Band or Steven van Zandt of "The Sopranos" or some such on the tee-vee)

In the reggae mode. You can hear it online. Just google. And visualize a river of righteous people.

Title: I Am A Patriot

And the river opens for the righteous, someday

I was walking with my brother
And he wondered what was on my mind
I said what I believe in my soul
It ain't what I see with my eyes
And we can't turn our backs this time

I am a patriot and I love my country
Because my country is all I know
I want to be with my family
With people who understand me
I got nowhere else to go
I am a patriot

And the river opens for the righteous, someday

I was talking with my sister
She looked so fine
I said baby what's on your mind
She said I want to run like the lion
Released from the cages
Released from the rages
Burning in my heart tonight

I am a patriot and I love my country
Because my country is all I know

And I ain't no communist, and I ain't no capitalist
And I ain't no socialist
and I sure ain't no imperialist
And I ain't no democrat
And I ain't no republican either
And I only know one party
and its name is freedom
I am a patriot

And the river opens for the righteous, someday

http://www.dragonflymedia.com/portal/featured_stories/200410/chopra_deepak.html

Also - how do you explain that creep Mel Martinez beating out Betty Castor. She is an education icon in our state! He was qouted by the St. Pete Times for being "a mean and dirty politician" - (something awful like that).

How is it that Republicans won in every Florida Senate, House, and Congressional race???

My apologies for the link at the bottom of my last post. It is unrelated.

Paraphrased from: Still I Rise by: Maya Angelou

You may write me down in history
With your bitter, twisted lies,
You may trod me in the very dirt
But still, like dust, I'll rise

Just like moons and like suns,
With the certainty of tides,
Just like hopes springing high,
Still I'll rise

You may shoot me with your words,
You may cut me with your eyes,
You may kill me with your hatefulness,
But still, like air, I'll rise

Leaving behind nights of terror and fear
I'll Rise, I'll Rise, I'll Rise

Nexxus, I'm in Palm Harbor, right next to Clearwater! We should have lunch sometime.

Nexxus, I was DEVASTATED at Betty Castor's loss, and it did not sit right with me. She has been a beacon for Florida for a long time. We needed her in the Senate. Mel Martinez is simply an asshole. I was shocked!!

Castor signs all over too. A few for Martinez, but I am very suspicious.

As a non-astrologer, just a few observations about the rather tense dialogue over astrological predictions...ALL of you need to pat yourselves on the back on the good work you have done in writing about these elections.

Those of you who were right about the outcome of the elections and need everyone to know you were right, please tell your ego "You were right about that, good work"! For those of you who were wrong, cut yourself a break. From the little I do know about astrology, it is both science and spirit kissed alchemy...a tool for people to use, heavens whispers.

So, for all you astrological cooks out there...please keep on cooking! If you are over 50% of the time right, Bravo! Thats why I am here on this website. 60%, 70% and 80% of the time right, Yipee! 90% Wow!

I don't expect that every one of you cooks is going to stick to the recipe, how could you? Some are going to interpret/analyze the recipe with butterscotch, some with chocolate chips. Your suppose too! Even if you all used the same tools and recipe, its not going to taste the same. And you know what. Spirit wouldn't want it any other way.

If we all had all the answers, there wouldn't have been any reason to incarnate.

To anon or Non-astrologer, well stated.

Hey, Pat C., I posted the Little Steven song on one of our threads a couple of days ago. It is great, isn't it?

Laurie,

You are so right the election was STOLEN from Kerry and Edwards. . . .No doubt about it!!!!! Things just don't add up

I can't get the picture out of mind of Dick Cheney answering the question "Aren't you worried about the big crowds Kerry is attracting? He got this smug/ugly look on on his face and said "Kerry may have the crowds, but we've got the votes" His look and words caused a strange chill around my heart. . .I didn't want to admit it then but I knew something wasn't right~Thanks for all your hard work in FL.

http://www.salon.com/tech/wire/2004/11/04/lost_votes/index.html

Computer may have lost 4,500 N.C. votes
Associated Press
Nov. 4, 2004  |  JACKSONVILLE, N.C. -- More than 4,500 votes may be lost in one North Carolina county because officials believed a computer that stored ballots electronically could hold more data than it did. Scattered other problems may change results in local races around the state.

Officials are investigating whether the lost votes in coastal Carteret County can be retrieved somehow, said state Board of Elections Executive Director Gary Bartlett.

Local officials said UniLect Corp., the maker of the county's electronic voting system, told them that each storage unit could handle 10,500 votes, but the limit was actually 3,005 votes.

Expecting the greater capacity, the county used only one unit during the early voting period. "If we had known, we would have had the units to handle the votes," said Sue Verdon, secretary of the county election board.

Officials said 3,005 early votes were stored, but 4,530 were lost.

UniLect, based in Dublin, Calif., did not immediately return a phone call Thursday seeking comment. County election officials were in a meeting and did not return a message seeking comment.

Two statewide races remained undecided Thursday, for superintendent of public instruction, where the two candidates are about 6,700 votes apart, and agriculture commissioner, where they are only hundreds of votes apart.

How those two races might be affected by problems in individual counties was uncertain. At least 72,000 provisional ballots are still to be counted, with four counties not yet reporting those figures, Bartlett said.

In Mecklenburg County, which includes Charlotte, a discrepancy was reported in the number of early votes cast. Before the election, the county election office said 102,109 people voted early or returned valid absentee ballots. Unofficial results from election night showed 106,064 of those votes.

Elections director Michael Dickerson said election officials had not lost any votes and he noted the results were not official yet.

A recount could change results in county commission races.

Nationwide, only scattered problems were reported in electronic voting, though roughly 40 million people casting digital ballots, voting equipment company executives had said.

..............................

http://verifiedvoting.org/verifier/index.php?topic_string=5std

USA - Election Equipment: Standard

Laurie,

I'm don't think that saying the election was stolen means that you're in denial. It may sound that way to someone who only reads mainstream media, but this whole deal about the voting machines is going mostly underreported.

Now they're blaming the bloggers for reporting the exit poll numbers that turned out to be incorrect, rather than looking at the discrepancy between the exit poll numbers and the outcome in FL and OH, two states with Diebold voting machines with no paper trail (5%!).

I admit that I wish that the blogs and the media didn't report the exit poll numbers or the numbers from early voting; as I have read before, and said before, part of stealing an election is knowing how many votes you need. And the greater the margin of "victory," the less it looks like it was stolen. That's another trick they've figured out.

Ahh...I wonder how much of this can be explained by the Uranus/Neptune mutual reception, especially Uranus in Pisces. Confusion reigns and works to bring about change that we don't necessarily want.

The last time Uranus was in Pisces (the 1920s), the Republicans also had a stranglehold on power. Only morals were looser then, so I've read. Still, that stranglehold wasn't broken until the Great Depression, and by then, Uranus was in Aries. Coincidence? Maybe.

Shylurker, yes it is. I wonder if I got that from you! Maybe I did. Heh!

I so love this from Starrynight.

You may write me down in history
With your bitter, twisted lies,
You may trod me in the very dirt
But still, like dust, I'll rise

Just like moons and like suns,
With the certainty of tides,
Just like hopes springing high,
Still I'll rise

You may shoot me with your words,
You may cut me with your eyes,
You may kill me with your hatefulness,
But still, like air, I'll rise

Leaving behind nights of terror and fear
I'll Rise, I'll Rise, I'll Rise

It is so hard to top this.

Gina...de ja vu, all over again...! welcome to the nuthouse. It is a good example of the Wheel of Karma, turning, turning, and it just keeps on turning....and we get another chance to do it right. But when Uranus hits Aries this time....well that is around 2010 I figure....and that deficiet will be coming due. The Rethugs drove us into the depression then, and looks like they will again.

Sharon,

good to hear from you....

I have a little story (yet another) to share with you all....it's nice, it's pitiful, and ironic all at the same time.

Now truthfully, although our Kerry campaign office was even featured in the Washington Post, it was very badly managed by a very young man..who would answer " I dont know" whenever you asked him a question...there was no leadership, no direction, no organization, and it was noticed by all---what made it the best office was the older women who came in, picked up the reins and did what had to be done.

And this was terrible. You have to realize that on voting day in Fla down here, the temperature was 88 degrees. And the poll watchers were standing in the sun. You can get de hydrated quickly. After a while someone brought us water, but no food.

When I got back to HQ about 7:30 there were moving cartons filled with boxed lunches and bagels and creamcheese, and coke and sprite and iced tea. so many cartons that some were outside in the heat. NOBODY had thought to arrange the delivery of the boxed lunches and drinks to the poll watchers. The guy in charge just left them there.. mind you there were vans, and maybe 60 or 70 people who had driven to HQ in cars. Nuf said about that incompetence.

Nobody was eating the food and there it was, turkey sandwiches in boxed lunches just sitting there at 1 AM in the morning..how wasteful can you get? .. .so I boxed it all up and told them I'd be back in the morning to pick it up and deliver it to the homeless shelters or soup kitchens.

Of course they didn't show up til late afternoon, but I called my friend with a SUV, we got that food into our car and SUV including 6 packing cartons 2 feet high of cream cheese and bagels (no not spread on the bagels :) ) and off we went.

He went to a black church and the minister produced Walmart bags, and the ladies filled them with bagels....and took home the boxed lunches for the kids.

I went North and passed a Baptist church, and thought I might find some needy people there. It
turned out to be a white baptist church, I drove up and told them about the lunches and bagels, they had the refrigeration for the five cartons to save the bagels for Sunday - and they traded a loaf of Panera basil bread and another spiced bread. They were quite nice and glad to have the lunches....and as we went out to get the boxes out of my car, up pulled a school bus and little little Haitian ones - children- got off the bus..they had school in the back of the quite nice church in the evening for them. Once I saw the little black children I was relieved that the
food was going to the right place.

God works in mysterious ways, don't you agree.? :)

And as I left , I laughed to myself. Here I was giving the people who very very likely had voted for Bush, the food from the Kerry campaign. Yup. Those damn bleeding heart libruls. :)

Any one by now realized here, even the BEST astrologer can be conned/outwitted/scammed by the
WORST con artist cum CROOKED SOB cum daylight
robber like 'cal rowe"

Laurie...this is insane - I'm still waiting for them to post the Pinellas County election results to make sure it shows strongly in favor of Kerry. If it doesn't - we know somethings up. You can keep checking this web page for postings:
http://enight.dos.state.fl.us/

Castor and Kerry were clearly FAR better candidates. I am actually an objective Democrat, and if I spot a Republican candidate whom I think will do a better job, I will vote for them - but this was not the case with Kerry or Castor!

I'm glad you were a poll worker and saw it first hand. I can tell you my precinct and city of St. Pete was hugely for Kerry (and according to data, our entire Pinellas county voted for Gore last time - so the data better match up!

I want America to know Florida is Blue and for Kerry!!! Florida did not vote for the ignorant Chimp! Give us credit guys we are not that stupid here.

Re the smelly voting....Raj, Rove IS smart...too big a lead would be too obvious...but with all of this Jupiterian excess for Bush's fortunes, could it be....TOO MUCH OF A GOOD THING? You know, like all the brownies you guys eating making you sick? Is it so consistent that it sets off the alarms? That wheel goes down as fast as it goes up...

hey you all, love the site.

check out http://www.michaellutin.com/ 'daily fix'

This is the guy that said before the election in 2000 that, "the winner would be the loser and the loser would be the winner."

Read on my friends this guy is good:

"here are my astrological reasons for saying what I said (he said Bush would win) this has nothing to do with any political views I have or don't have.

With Saturn in Cancer on Bush's Saturn and the Moon there all day during election day it seemed that people's feelings would be geared toward their own individual security which Bush has attempted to embody in this campaign.

Besides, this transit of Saturn coincides with his saturn return in the twelfth which to me indicated the blessing/curse of getting what you wish for.''

Interesting eh?

Hi Janet,

Ooops, that was me Tanga from California...didn't mean to post anonymously.

Someone here (perhaps Sally?) mentioned a long time ago it seems that we should be investing in silver and Euros, or something like that? Does this ring any bells for anyone? And could someone let me know what article in the archives this is mentioned in ... if at all?

With this major-leage depression setting in (I'm also undergoing a Saturn-Venus square right now as well), I'm beginning to think that my mind is playing tricks on me by INSISTING (like a small child) to see the Silver Lining in even the most Darkest of Night Black Clouds, so I want to make sure I read right about this "buying silver" thing. It's downright exhausting being an optimist in times like these.

Some dark humor.

http://citypages.com/databank/25/1248/article12626.asp

Former President George W. Bush Dead at 72
by Greil Marcus

Policy Review, October 5, 2018--George W. Bush, the 43rd president of the United States, died today at Methodist Hospital in Houston, Texas. He was 72. The cause of death was announced as heart failure.

more.....

"Any one by now realized here, even the BEST astrologer can be conned/outwitted/scammed by the
WORST con artist cum CROOKED SOB cum daylight
robber like 'cal rowe" "

You sound very angry. But Iknow you know that there is nothing such as conning, outwitting or scamming an astrologer.

We saw Neptune going direct just before the election...and several mentioned concern about it. But we didn't know exactly how it would work out. Perhaps we were too close to be objective. Now we know what it meant.

Deception moving ahead, certainly(which I take to be the plan and nod to move ahead with changing totals on the voting machines..or losing votes).

But it could also have been the mobilizing of the evangelicals when the repugnants and rove saw from the early voting that they were in the losers circle.

Jonathan, as I recollect it was Sally who advised buying silver.

Last year I posted a couple of comments on this board opining that Bush would win another term. Vis Numar then "challenged" me to write it up for the site and the article appeared on Nov 10, 2003. I wanted this website to prosper and so I gave it the copyright to the article for what it is worth.

One year later, Bush has just been re-installed and according to the posters here the roughly 50+ million that voted for the wrong fellow are the devil-incarnate...the whining is unbelievable.

Meanwhile, I haven't seen the slightest semblance of good manners in those whom I would have most expected to exhibit them. Others refer to "Vedic" astrologers who are adept at "Western" methods and who predicted the outcome correctly, and so on...but not one acknowledgement that an article on your own site laid it all out clearly even before the Democrat challenger appeared.

As I said in a previous post, I will be interested to see how this site evolves and whether the quality of the astological analysis improves. (I also hope Nancy Waterman will not give up writing..!!!)

Lahiri

Lahiri,
What is your prediction for Bush and America in the next 4 years?

Wow.

I'm genuflecting. Anybody else?

Someone prior mentioned that Saturn in Cancer during the election influenced the voters to vote in a way that makes them feel safe, the focus was on personal security. That is a great observation.

I am Cancer Rising with Mars and Venus in Cancer, and when Saturn transited into Cancer...I immediately began to focus on my personal financial security. As an astologer I was able to see this in action. Before this transit I was giving-giving-giving. I am an animal rights activist, who despite almost no income, had been devoting almost 70% of time to helping animals. Finally (when saturn hit Cancer)I realized my financial situation was getting dangerous and I started tending to it, unfortuantely my activism has had to decrease for awhile.

I also started working out again after stopping for over 2 years to do serious animal rights activism. (selfish, fear of losing physique)

Overall - I think Saturn in Cancer is a dangerous, selfish and even fearful position. I can see why "god, guns and homophobia" plagued this election.

By the way, I think a vote for Kerry WAS for the security of the future of our entire planet!

But the Neptune influence had people thinking voting against gays and the "french guy" was more secure!

Fear can cripple one's intellect...and Saturn in Cancer did just that.

Lucy,
You are soooo funny!

lahari, my, my...what kind of manners is it to come on board and crow about just how smart you are and then acuse others of bad manners for not doing so earlier? in a close election, a coin toss is as impressive at picking the final outcome as an extended astrological analysis WHEN the election is rigged. i am beginning to think that the hypocracy in the astro-spiritual community, as reflected by the gloaters and condescenders, is as rampant as the hypocracy in the religious right. of note, the right projects it's hypocracy in death and destruction; the 'spiritual' community merely gloats and humiliates their co-relgionists.

can some of you people just give it a break with all your crowing. as an astrology consumer, i wouldn't go near any of the narcissistic posters showing up telling the world how smart they are. this is dangerous in any type of consulting professional.

read the two sentences below and check out the web site. if you are so clever, figure out how the election was stolen.

mr. manners
-----------------------------------------------
Corporate America controls the media and we get manufactured news.

Corporate America now controls the voting machines and we get manufactured elections.

http://www.blackboxvoting.org/

------------------------------------------------

Well, good that I challenged you, as it got you writing it out.... you said:

"GWB is currently running the Jupiter bhukti (Nov 3, 2003 to May 15, 2006) of his Saturn dasa (May 17, 1987 to May 15, 2006.) This Saturn is what has brought him to the pinnacle and yet we hear how Saturn is going to destroy him. Not according to Vedic astrology as I understand it."

Right, we've seen that one there a long time. Komilla Sutton laid it out as well. I never did come out here and state Kerry as the winner, it just didn't look like a sure thing to me. There was just way to much Saturn in Kerry's chart. The only thing I ever did see in Kerry's chart was the Venus/Jupiter conjunction of today at his MH, which I took, in his Sag, to be a new career... well, now it turns out there's a midnight to one am chart out of NM for Kerry, which means that wasn't even applicable. It's probably there for his wife, I'd bet.

I don't know that the Democratic Party can Phoenix much more, there's just a few more hits of Pluto on it's Sun where George Bush's south node is to go... it's waning, we'll survive, and things will change.

Lucy,

No, I'm not genuflecting... I'm checking my bad manners for 1) coming late to the site, Jan 2004 and 2) failing to read all the archives; and then I'm whining that the election was not only stolen in 2004 and the thief ended up in the White House, but that I was stupid enough not to see that the 'winner' would not be the winner again... and third I'm having my hearing checked because obviously some folk think I didn't hear it the first time... so it's being reposted for those of us with impaired hearing. And finally, I'm burying my Ego, because "the ego is a wonderful thing to lose"... don't forget to bend your knee when you genuflect!

[I've suffered these repugs in silence for four years... not going to be warm and fuzzy for the next four]

 http://www.mirror.co.uk/voiceofthemirror/

BUSH'S WIN PUTS US ALL IN DANGER

?AMERICA'S greatest president, Abraham Lincoln, once advised: "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."

Those who voted George Bush in for four more years removed all doubt that the majority of Americans have learned little since September 11, 2001.

In the months that followed the destruction of New York's Twin Towers, the people of the United States had the sympathy of the world.

President Bush lost it for them. He took his country into a war which has cost 1,100 American lives and tens of billions of dollars.

He has alienated virtually every other country. If people of other nations had a vote, he would have lost by a landslide.

He has been hopeless at running the US economy, turning a record budget surplus into a record deficit. He has lost millions of jobs. He cut a million people out of health care.

His much-trumpeted tax cuts put a fortune in the pockets of the super-rich while doing next to nothing for ordinary Americans. Yet they voted him back.

With another four Bush years ahead, the future looks desperate. For us in Britain it could be particularly bad.

If Tony Blair continues his sycophantic following of the President we will become still more isolated.

The situation in Iraq is bad enough. But Mr Bush wants to go after Iran next.

The world was a dangerous enough place after 9/11. President Bush's military bravado has made it worse. In the next four years it is likely to become more terrifying still. Making it more, not less likely that we are at risk of a terrorist attack.

That is what the majority of the American people have done by re-electing an ignorant, arrogant, swaggering administration.

Abraham Lincoln must be turning in his grave.

That was my post at 2:10 am...

JO

Vis, so glad to see you again, we love your opinion. Thank you ever so much.

I have had a very difficult time with this, it should have been a Kerry win, a "magical moment" we may never realize. I love the guy. I truly believe he loves us too. He will be very very strong in the Senate.

I want to know how we get him out! This is an international disgrace. He is reviled, and thereby, so are all the rest of us. I noticed that he was considered inept with the economy. I think that's not true. I think they intend to create great debt, strip the environment and generally behave like criminal junk bond raiders to the globe.

Me roo, Pat C, me too. Oh my GOD.

Moan,,,

Oh me, Ms. Isabelle Ghaneh - I am brain dead, please forgive me. I love your article. Thank you so very very much for being a part of Astroworld and thank you Sally, as always, for your site. I swear I will donate soon. So broke lately. I feel very broke now, with Bush at the helm.

My astrological friends and wise spirits...for what it is worth, all these conversations about the elections being stolen are raindrops in the wind.

The results of these elections were planted seeds in the collective mind years ago. Their fruits: ignorance, greed, anger and fear. Not that this is anything new in the history of humanity, its just the timing of "Not getting it right NOW" is an ecological trainwreck for all beings.

Before the election, I think many of us thought and felt that there was hope...yet clearly, the collective has spoken, whether they stole the election or not, they won the prize, their in the driver's seat. Looking around, I haven't seen much evidence of people (in mass) moving to higher consciousness anytime soon and I am not just talking about this country. I mean, The planet is on fire. The melting glaciers, the floods, extinction of our animal friends. This isn't going to turn around anytime soon folks, perhaps not in our lifetimes.

So people with minds of light, EMBRACE these dark nights ahead and hold up your lanterns!

It's funny to me, but I can't help but see Scarlett O'Hara standing on the hilltop and oh, so defiant when all around her is burning, dead. All she could think about was "Tara" mother earth...HOME. I loved her inner strength and courage to head-on-face the awful reality around her. I find myself saying, liker her, over and over, like a prayer "Spirit, bring me Home".

I really believe there are many who have incarnated as Bodhissatvas (many of you at this website) for this particular moment in our collective history. We are here to shine brightly and to help others vibrate at a higher frequency. The evolution of consciousness is counting on it.

Mark Crispin Miller...must read (its from salon, which is a paid site but this is enough).

http://www.democraticunderground.com/

------------------------------------------------
Corporate America controls the media and we get manufactured news.
Corporate America now controls the voting machines and we get manufactured elections.[/b]

http://www.blackboxvoting.org/
-------------------------------------------------

Lahiri, this site, from its inception has grown leaps and bounds. If you've read the threads through the past year plus, you should be delighted and impressed by the intellect, insight and wisdom of the astrolgers: Sally, Nancy, Morgana, Isabelle, Vis, as well as the guest astrologers.

This site is blessed, for the most part, with reasoned astrolgers and reasoned posters who are talking, discussing, debating, and questioning astrology in all its aspect, and in particular how it relates to mundate astrology and our politics. With this dynamic occuring, this site will continue to grow and develop because we've got good ingredients. The magic ingredients are here (good DNA so to speak) for this site to be and remain quality driven. So, we thank you for your concern, but I think we're doing damm good.

One final thing, we're good people here, but many of us have this quirk, gloaters and arrogant people annoy the heck out of us.

If you haven't seen this please go read:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2587059

from DU ----------
My name is Stephen Joseph Vincent and I refuse to be afraid to speak my mind in my own country.

I served my country in the military for 5 years. I wore the uniform. I was willing to sacrifice my life for the ideals this country was founded on. I will not be cowed by the bullies who run this country or the partisan cowards who support them.

As I write this, tears stream down my cheeks. Tears for the men and women who are dying in our name. Tears for poor and hard working Americans who may never get out of poverty. Tears for the hateful racist, mysogynistic, homophobic nation we appear to be. Tears for my daughter and the children of this country. Tears of anger.

Take my name. Write it down. Do with it what you will you fucking freepers and government agents.

I will not hide behind an alias. I will not be ashamed of my party affilliation or my political beliefs. I will not quietly stand by as my country is diminished.

I AM NOT AFRAID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

And neither should my 55 million compatriots who proudly stood up and said, "Enough."

This is my country and I will fight for her.

I will fight goddammit.

---- more....

This made me cry. You have to follow the link, but what you find there will astound and inspire you!!!

KM

Bumble,

I really enjoy Michael Lutin's quirky style, mixing free flow humor with incisive insights and plain honesty. I particularly like his remarks about Bush's 12th house Saturn transit:

"...it also indicates a crisis of faith
and a feeling of being trapped by all your previous actions and in that sense
Bush appeared to be stuck in the White House.

And in the twelfth house feeling secretly very ill about the whole thing

and Saturn's presence usually coincides with
an even greater period of heavy responsibility
in coming months and certainly not liberated
from a tough situation."

I saw part of his press conference this morning. He was probably tired but also seems very nervous, awkward, uncomfortable, and inarticulate. Where was the "inspirational" motivated GWB of the campaign trail (when he actually wasn't too bad of a speaker, ignoring his lies for a few moments)? I like the idea of him feeling trapped and physically ill about the idea of winning. He asked for it! He got it!

I'm unclear about something though: How can the black box voting project's audit help matters when the probably methodolgy for stealing the election was hacking in voting systems without a paper trail?

One of the very nice things about "Sally's Salon"
is that the regular posters here are quite polite to one another.

To attack the posters and astrologers on this site as a method of drawing wanted attention to self, is not a way to make friends and influence people.Both Mr. Manners and Lahiri's posts are rude, mean and disruptive.

Sally, are these the unwanted visitors you occasionally refer to that we should ignore?

"Whiners?" No acknowledgment of Mr. Wonderful?
" I will be interested to see how this site evolves and whether the quality of the astological analysis improves". " narcissistic posters showing up telling the world how smart they are."

Obviously these are two people who don't know how to have a civil conversation.

If you absolutely must be nasty, write the White House. Don't clutter up this site.

Thank you.

That was an awesome post, KM. Thank you.

Vis:

Yes, indeed, it was because of your "challenge" that I wrote out the article even though I knew it would offend most of the posters here who are not astrologers but activists. But more important to me was the spirit and tone of your "challenge" - I don't see it at all - were your words if I remember correctly...objectivity, in a word, challenge the message, not the messenger.

Now, if I may, I really think you should look into the concept of "yogakaraka" in Vedic astrology.

You see, to conclude as you just did, that "there was too much Saturn" in Kerry's chart, is I think, a grave mistake.

Here are the first 2 sentences from my article, which I wrote with you specifically in mind - "One of the most fundamental insights in Vedic astrology is the observation that the same planet can behave in different ways for different ascendants. Jupiter, for instance, is not the expansive benefic for Libra that it is for Scorpio, but a strong malefic."

The moon sign is also very important in Vedic astrology, and Bush has the fifth lord Saturn in the 11th from the Moon, exactly like Bill Clinton...these are lucky individuals indeed !!!

More interesting, there is a huge upsurge of activity in Hillary's chart - I think Dubya may reach out to her.

Best,
Lahiri

The flaming doesn't bother me because I understand these are committed individuals...but even so, to talk about ANOTHER person's ego is almost always psychological projection.

KM, wow! That really is inspiring.

Sharon,

Bev Harris of blackboxvoting.org has students from several universities - computer geeks and scientists working with her.

They don;t need a paper trail, they go into the
computer's "innards" and memory. They've previously found "back doors" - extra chips - etc.

Go on over and take a look at blackbox - she may have some of the past information they've proved on it.

Dear Fellow astrologers,

Excuse me, while I lose it.

FOR CHRISTSAKES- GET LOST ALREADY. YOU PAIN IN THE ASS.

I still believe my dream was correct. Kerry was the winner but the election was stolen. He is of the light. I trust my dreamstate over neoConArtists.

Lahiri,
It could be that you have a mercury that just comes across as course to many here. I recognize it as a speaking style that is bound up in your mercury sign, house and aspects. Care to shed some light there?

Captain Sally, not everyone is playing well with others here tonight. I think that's sad, for you have made such a wonderful place for us to gather and share. So, I just want to say: Thank you!

Mr. Mike, please send Ouida May home as I need some spiritual comfort.

Code:
How about 'No Child Left Behind' and the 'Left Behind' books.

How about the 144,000 new jobs W claimed right after the RNC. I recall learning that 144,000 souls are left on earth after the Rapture. W talks to the Fundies in code right in front of our eyes.

Wake up.

There's nothing worse than spiritual pride. Like being an arrogant beggar.

PS Hey Raj, welcome back. Missed your spicy vindaloo.

Lahiri, we don't intend to flame you. This site is not about that and will not descend into that. But please understand, you are a guest in someone's home. It's rude to go into someone's home and tell them that they are lousy housekeepers. You may not understand that you are doing that, but you are. Further, it's not what you have to say, many people here differ, it's how you say it that offends.

Kerry Won...

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/printer_110504V.shtml

Lahiri, the people who post here try to be polite to each other and value what each person brings, and our posters bring a ton of information and creative thought. I am so sorry I don't remember your article and I've looked for it but I will continue to comb the archives.

Astroworld has been my site since spring 2003 and I don't think we (Vis and I) lost any articles in the transfer but I will keep looking. Neither Vis nor I would have invited anyone we didn't think had something to offer, so I'm certain it was of quality. As far as people not responding to your article would not have had anything to do with whether they liked it or not.

It sounds as if you feel badly that people didn't respond to your article. This site has grown considerably since 2002/2003. Nancy and I used to be thrilled if 50 people made comments, that was pretty big back then. I have posted several visiting astrologers with differing views and have been honored to do so, there have been some outstanding astrologers who have written brillantly about the energies around us and they have been well received, but it's been a growth process.

I think we are all a little on edge these days but pollyanna or not, we have built a little safe oasis here to express ourselves, not to attack others or sling critical barbs. We all try hard to be polite and try to learn from each other. That is the main thrust of this site and I intend to keep it that way.

Yes he did. I know you won't believe this, but those media types are lying to us. From the Boston Globe....

http://tinyurl.com/6emyf

Youth came through with big turnout

Bhakti,

since I never listen to the demented texan, I had no idea he was saying those things.

You;re quite right about the 144,000 - I take it he was talking in code to the fundies that he would be creating 144,000 "places/spaces"= jobs, for them.

I guess Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell forgot to teach him that the bible is referring to 144,000 Jews will be left ( under a mountain or a ledge).

But I didn't get the part about "the no child left behind books".

? ? Could you explain? Thanks.

Thanks for posting that WV and in my heart of hearts I know Palast is right.

Sally, Sally:

It's your old friend Bob Jordan, who tried to adopt the pseudonym Lahiri, and whom you gave away to the world-at-large by printing HIS NAME !!!

It's alright, just don't lose Nancy, that's all.

Best,
BOB

Janet, you rock.

wv and shylurker, this one's for your:

http://stevegilliard.blogspot.com/2004/11/what-comes-next.html

Pallas18, the problem with the left in this country is that they let people push them around. afterall, we just had an election stolen from us! i'm as much entitled to be here as anyone else and i'm also not going to sit pasively (like gore and kerry, bless their hearts!) and just let someone ramble through for a moment and insult the astrolegers and contributors here.

here is the fact:

t h e e l e c t i o n w a s s t o l e n

people insulting astrologers and contributors here are the ones with bad manners. there's an old saying, 'to repeat a lie is to tell a lie.' my modification of that is TO STAND BY WHILE AN INSULT IS MADE IS TO ENDORSE THE INSULT.' not me, now now, not anywhere, not anymore.

------------------------------------------------
Corporate America controls the media and we get manufactured news.

Corporate America now controls the voting machines and we get manufactured elections.

http://www.blackboxvoting.org/
------------------------------------------------

okay Mike.

I'm obviously with you on that.

Sally, I remember reading Lahiri's article here. Astroworld was down for a while when it got back up, you had taken over. It was shortly after that that the article was posted. (Around the time Dean was just getting his name out, pre-primaries)

At that time there weren't many posters here, so her article wouldn't have gotten a large response. To add to the lack of interest, many of us at the time really didn't want "Bush will win" shoved in our face. We prefered your approach when you said something to the effect that at the time of the election, something Pisces, and that could mean that the incumbent would retain the WH.

Lahiri, we want to hear as many astrologer's opinions as possible, but sometimes the astrologer click with the audience, and sometimes he/she doesn't. That's just how it goes. Neither one of the party is good or bad, it's just chemistry, and it just is.

Enough already folks!

we're all supersensitive.Let's all cut one another a little slack.

Let's all take a few deep breaths and be tender and gentle to one another.

"It takes two to fight and one to love."
Ann Pace

PEACE

From Michael Lutin's site:

"As for Bush,Saturn goes retrograde in his twelfth
right after the election. He's stressed beyond the Valley of the Dolls\and can't hide it much longer "

"Mars transits his twelfth house right after the election. Just conjure up an image of the old
Mad Magazine's Spy vs. Spy and you'l now what i mean "

"TRUST ME.THIS IS GOING TO BE INSANE"

America is on the brink of a revolutionary change.
Don't look for things to be calm and peaceful
for a long time. It's the sixties redux."

ISLAM AND PLUTO

"IF they would only just go away. Quietly. If they would only just slink back into the woodwork and go back where they came from. We could all go back to living our lives peacefully. Happily. We could all return to our hassle-free existence and not have to shiver in fear of a bunch of hostile, aggressive, testosterone-drenched, heat-seeking death missiles in human form known as Islamic Fundamentalists."

"Well you can kiss that dream good-bye. The sleeper has awakened and the world has been plunged into an ideological revolution...... "

"... the events of September 11th will dominate the mood and thought for the next seventy-five years."

Why?

"The first verses of the Quran were "disclosed" to the "prophet" while Pluto was in early Aries, and the entire codification of Islam occurred during the transit of Pluto in Aries. Islam, then is Pluto in Aries."

"When Pluto either rises or enters the first sign of the Zodiac, you experience the surfacing of rage for all past repression. It kindles within you the fervent desire to be seen, heard, validated and obeyed. You are forced into a direct confrontation with mortality and must be willing to die for what you believe in. It is the need to overcome your fear of death at any cost and a welcoming of death if your needs are not recognized and met. It can be hostile and aggressive. All your primitive wishes and drives and instincts rise to the boiling surface and your behavior shows it. Your murderous instincts appear seemingly out of nowhere, for good or ill. You don't give a damn whether people think you're a good guy or not. You enter into the struggle for domination and even if you have to become the very thing you've always hated, you refuse to be subjugated. You reject your submissive role. You overthrow whatever regime you feel has been holding you hostage."

"Transiting Pluto is now hurtling toward the end of the Zodiac. Muhammad himself had Pluto at the last decanate of Aquarius–the current position of Uranus. The First Crusade took Place with Pluto in Aries. As Did one in the fourteenth Century. Never before has Pluto come toward Aries since it has been discovered. The twenty-first century, therefore, will see the first Pluto return of Islam since the discovery of that planet. It's not going to go away."
___________________

"The First Crusade took Place with Pluto in "Aries."

Oh Carp!

This is long but GOOOOOD. I rec'd it as an email --- Sharon

Hey, this is going to take up alot of space in your in-box but if you feel the need to blow a little steam but are too well-socialized to do so...the guy below can cover it for all of us. (Taken from a post on Dailykos)

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The Concession Speech We All Wanted to Hear! (4.00 / 15)

November 03, 2004
Concession Speech

[Former candidate Adam Felber, flanked by his family and supporters, steps up
to the podium in the bright autumn sunlight. Cheers and applause are
heard.]

My fellow Americans, the people of this nation have spoken, and spoken with a clear voice. So I am here to offer my concession.

[Boos, groans,rending of garments]

I concede that I overestimated the intelligence of the American people. Though the people disagree with the President on almost every issue, you saw fit to vote for him. I never saw that coming. That's really special. And I mean "special" in the sense that we use it to describe those kids who ride the short school bus and find ways to injure themselves while
eating pudding with rubber spoons. That kind of special.

I concede that I misjudged the power of hate. That's pretty powerful stuff, and I didn't see it. So let me take a moment to congratulate the
President's strategists: Putting the gay marriage amendments on the ballot in various swing states like Ohio... well, that was just genius. Genius. It got people, a certain kind of people, to the polls. The unprecedented number of folks who showed up and cited "moral values" as their biggest issue, those people changed history. The folks who consider same sex marriage a more important issue than war, or
terrorism, or the economy... Who'd have thought the election would belong to them? Well, Karl Rove did. Gotta give it up to him for that.

[Boos.]

Now, now. Credit where it's due.

I concede that I put too much faith in America's youth. With 8 out of 10 of you opposing the President, with your friends and classmates dying
daily in a war you disapprove of, with your future being mortgaged to pay for rich old peoples' tax breaks, you somehow managed to sit on your asses and watch the Cartoon Network while aging homophobic hillbillies carried the day. You voted with the exact same anemic rcentage that you did in 2000. You suck. Seriously, y'do.

[Cheers, applause]

Thank
you. Thank you very much.

There are some who would say that I sound bitter, that now is the time
for healing, to bring the nation together. Let me tell you a little
story. Last night, I watched the returns come in with some friends here
in Los Angeles. As the night progressed, people began to talk
half-seriously about secession, a red state / blue state split. The
reasoning was this: We in blue states produce the vast majority of the
wealth in this country and pay the most taxes, and you in the red states
receive the majority of the money from those taxes while complaining
about 'em. We in the blue states are the only ones who've been attacked
by foreign terrorists, yet you in the red states are gung ho to fight a
war in our name. We in the blue states produce the entertainment that
you consume so greedily each day, while you in the red states show open
disdain for us and our values. Blue state civilians are the actual
victims and targets of the war on terror, while red state civilians are
the ones standing behind us and yelling "Oh, yeah!? Bring it on!"

More than 40% of you Bush voters still believe that Saddam Hussein had
something to do with 9/11. I'm impressed by that, truly I am. Your sons
and daughters who might die in this war know it's not true, the people
in the urban centers where al Qaeda wants to attack know it's not true,
but those of you who are at practically no risk believe this easy lie
because you can. As part of my concession speech, let me say that I
really envy that luxury. I concede that.

Healing? We, the people at risk from terrorists, the people who
subsidize you, the people who speak in glowing and respectful terms
about the heartland of America while that heartland insults and
excoriates us... we wanted some healing. We spoke loud and clear. And
you refused to give it to us, largely because of your high moral values.
You knew better: America doesn't need its allies, doesn't need to share
the burden, doesn't need to unite the world, doesn't need to provide for
its future. Hell no. Not when it's got a human shield of pointy-headed,
atheistic, unconfrontational breadwinners who are willing to pay the
bills and play nice in the vain hope of winning a vote that we can never
have. Because we're "morally inferior," I suppose, we are supposed to
respect your values while you insult ours. And the big joke here is that
for 20 years, we've done just that.

It's not a "ha-ha" funny joke, I realize, but it's a joke all the same.
Being an independent candidate gives me one luxury - as well as
conceding the election today, I am also announcing my candidacy for
President in 2008.

[Wild applause, screams, chants of "Fel-ber!
Fel-ber!]

Thank you.

And I make this pledge to you today: THIS time, next time, there will be
no pandering. This time I will run with all the open and joking contempt
for my opponents that our President demonstrated towards the cradle of
liberty, the Ivy League intellectuals, the "media elite," and the
"white-wine sippers." This time I will not pretend that the simple folk
of America know just as much as the people who devote their lives to
serving and studying the nation and the world. They don't.

So that's why I'm asking for your vote in 2008, America. I'm talking to
you, you ignorant, slack-jawed yokels, you bible-thumping, inbred
drones, you redneck, racist, chest-thumping, perennially duped
grade-school grads. Vote for me, because I know better, and I truly
believe that I can help your smug, sorry asses. Vote Felber in '08!
Thank you, and may God, if he does in fact exist, bless each and every
one of you.

[Tumultuous cheers, applause, and foot-stomping. PULL BACK to reveal the
rest of the stage, the row of cameras, hundreds of unoccupied chairs,
and the empty field beyond.]

by NotFuzzy on Thu Nov 4th, 2004 at 11:13:49 PST
[ Parent ]

Pallas...your question about the connecton in reference to "No Child Left Behind" and the "Left Behind" Books:

The Tim LaHaye books, big sellers among the born again crowd -- "Left Behind".

Rapture and Armaggedon oriented novels.

yech.......

Wasn't it also Michael Lutin who posted some months back that Bill Clinton would be the last
duly elected President of the United States?

If democracy is ever to live again in this country
the electronic voting machines have to go.

Pallas18...you rock too, here and elsewhere...

here is a graphic from a first rate statistitian. it's his first pass at analyzing the vote fraud issue.

just surf the graphics. there will be more later.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1323952&mesg_id=1323952

shylurker, ouida may is on the red eye.

Thanks KM

Just an area of information that I have no desire to keep up on.

This fool is so sick - and his followers are just as sick as bin laden's jihadis.

They're praying for disaster, and doing everything along with dimson to bring it on, and they have the nerve to call the Jihadis monsters.

Trust me, it's nothing I desire to keep up on either. Just turned out to be one of those "useless" bits of information that was there when you asked the question.

The Concession Speech We All Wanted to Hear! (4.00 / 15)

November 03, 2004
Concession Speech

Okay - that really spelled things out for me. (tears in my eyes) - I am DISGUSTED that it is New York that was blown to shreds and that fear driven fundies in red states picked the same guy who endangers them even more. We need to do away with the electoral vote and let New York and California (the wealth and itellect of our nation) decide who should be President. I trust metropolitan intellectuals over fundie rednecks who hate gays in the "heartland".

Mike - those graphs really tell the story.

Where there are paper ballots, Kerry is over the moon.

where it's electronic, he ain't winnin nothin.

My word. How odd. the investigations will start and be solved two years from now when on page 90 of the Sun Sentinel it is stated that Kerry actually did win the popular and electoral vote.

If Kerry had hung in there - things might be different. This nonsense of not tearing the country apart when it is obviously torn apart just doesn't wash.

In reply to the "thank you" e mail from Kerry, I sent this:

"I worked myself to exhaustion for you, and you have severely disappointed me by not waiting eleven days for all the military and absentee ballots to be counted.

You promised to fight and you had 10,000 lawyers, many who were here in Palm Beach County Florida, but you did not use them.

At 6 PM I was told to warn the voters that the machines were not recording the votes accurately - and to be sure to tell the voters to check the summary sheet of their choices. It would have been more helpful if they had told us that by 10 AM, not when there was one hour to go.

There will not be another election to win. Democracy is dead in this country and today is the day it died.

William Jefferson Clinton is the last truly democratically elected President of the United States and it is doubtful there will be another - for you have not fought to prove the machines without paper trails were rigged.

I won;t be working for the Democratic Party again because it doesn't work for me. To work for me it would have to stand up and fight to save this country from the destruction of the Constitution and the fascism that now engulfs it.

How disappointing."

Mike, Pallas, a dumb question: what can we, as citizens, do to get rid of those blackboxes? I know Bev Harris is working hard at this, but is there more we can do. This is insane, we vote but we have no idea where the vote is.

Pallas 18,
Please don't give up on the Dem's - we need you! Get your fighting spirit back - we're the only people who can challange the repubs. It looks like Black Box is petitioning for an audit...

Realisticlly the Dems can't formally ask for an audit without getting SLAMMED by the media. It's up to us as individuals to do it.

We were all disheartened by how quick Kerry conceded - but he must have done it partially to avoid the Dem BASHING that would have ensued.

Maybe we can talk those 10,000 lawyers into asking for an audit too.

I suspect FRAUD as do many many people. I'll bet California and New York are freaking out right now.

Mike, not able to access the chart although it brings me to a post that says "a pic. is worth 1000 words." Is there another link? Thanks :-)

You can work inside the system and start calling and writing your Congress persons and Senators.

Nag. Say you know the election was rigged, that it has been proved that hackers can change the voting totals on the electronic machines. That they need to be thrown out and replaced with machines or paper ballots that can actually be recounted.

You can call AND write your Election Supervisor and Secretary of State and strongly say the same thing.

The only other thing would be to join Bev Harris' crew. She has posted on her site that she is looking for volunteers/crew. And she has the know-how and the computer programmers to prove it in demonstrations to Secretary of State and Election
Supervisors.

Each person has to make a nag of themselves, state and federal wise. They've gotten away with it twice. Maybe if there is a big enough and angry enough "stink" made by the 50 million disenfranchised voters - something may change

Short of a revolution, which they are preparing for, that's all I can think of.

Maybe Mike has more ideas/avenues.

Pat C, I posted this under the previous article but this new one was already up so maybe you missed this: You were interested in the numbers associated with the Fundie Jesus signs and I believe that they use 888 as the symbol of Jesus. see here:
http://www.greaterthings.com/Word-Number/Methods/888/

Starting to come out of the election fog here, though have not been out of the house for 2 days. Here in the deep south of Fundie earth heaven the churches have held victory election celebrations at the usual Wednesday night church services. Have turned off the television as the local news is just crowing all day/night over this Bush win and showing pics of the celebrations and interviewing all the crazies who now are convinced more than ever that God has given them a sign that Bush is going to hasten on the rapture with this re-election. My husband left work early today as several co-workers brought in a 'Victory' cake festooned with balloons and the American flag and wanted everyone to celebrate Bush's stomping of Kerry. My husband refused and was verbally assaulted by two people who insisted he must have voted for "terra-ists" and Kerry. These are smart men with high power jobs who are also active in their Baptist churches, one even an elder in his. When my husband refused to "celebrate" and told them he was mourning instead for our country and for all the innocent people who had lost their lives in this war overseas a huge scream fest started .. grown men saying we will trample the Arabs and one even suggesting we take the French and Germans with them! My husband left and came home .. has put in for early retirement as he thinks this is just the start of the crazy stuff that is coming. These people are very, very scarey .. the new American taliban for sure!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1323952&mesg_id=1323952

should do it sharon.

janet, the first step is to build consciousness and awareness. that will do for now. then when shrub flubs, the corporate media may well use this as the excuse to 'allow' us to change things.
or, alternatively, the internet will be even more powerfl and we can just bypass the corporate franchise and let the people see.

pallas18, kvetch, complain, gnash teeth...loved your letter (and you give me a hard time about flames). if the democrats get someone in there who fights like Clark or Dean would have, then i will pray that you reconsider. people like you make a difference.

Molly Ivins at her best.

http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?itemid=18028

sweet Jesus, CLARK IN 2008!!!

now there is a guy who would never back down, ever.

Nexxuus,

the dems are now the repugnants.

It's one party.

On the last day or so when Kerry announced he was considering Senator Chuck Hagel, (he of the Diebold Voting Machines) for his cabinet....my head swiveled like the exorcist.

Either it was a try to have Hagel influence the
rigged machinery, or if it was serious it was disgusting.

Either way, it didn't work.

The democrats are as involved in graft and lobbyists as are the republicans...they're just more tolerable because they're not as blatant about it.

If we still had a democracy I would say a third or fourth party should be started by the people...
something like The American People's True Democracy Party.

But we don't still have a democracy.

For me, this was one last try. In truth I think "America" is over.

Well I thought I would give you folks an update on what happened in my campaign.

As you know, we lost in our little race. My candidate put up a good fight, and actually she and I are both a little relieved that we're not going to Lansing. It's not a good time to be a Democrat right now. Several Democratic incumbents lost, and fighting for out issues would probably be a losing battle right now. At the moment, we're in the process of taking down yard signs and cleaning up the campaign office. I plan to write an "after-action report" addressed to the 2006 candidate to let them know what they're getting into and what they need to do differently. I thought that it was the least I could do to have a lasting impact on the district here.

The candidate's family (many of whom were actually my campaign staff) wants to take me to the Upper Peninsula. Apparently, it's something I really need to see while I'm in Michigan. It's deer hunting season, and as much as I loathe the idea of killing bambi, it's part of the culture here. So I may as well learn a thing or two while I'm in the area.

While I'm on the subject of deer, I wanted to tell you all a funny story about a group my candidate spoke in front of. She did a meet-the-candidate forum for the local townships association and the moderator took questions from the audience. Apparently deer are a problem here in central Michigan. The audience had been reluctant to ask anything, and then this one guy mentioned a problem with deer overpopulation and it's various consequences. Have you ever seen one of those South Park episodes where one person yells out a comment and then an entire mob rushed to join them? Well that's kind of what this was like. At first, the deer issue was a minor nuisance. By the end of the meeting, deer were the enemy of civilization as we know it. I thought this was kind of funny, and the candidate handled it well. The point is that deer are a big part of what goes on here, so I'm going to experience the deer hunting season. Oh deer!!!

Anyway, in terms of my long term plans, I plan to be home to good old Texas by Thanksgiving. Right now, I'm very seriously considering grad school, particularly law school. I should say that I have not wanted to go to law school. I think I would be good at law, but I don't really like legal reasoning. Here's what changed my mind: I need job security. I need to know that I can have a stable job and I've spent the last three years of my life dealing with job insecurity. I've had it with all the searching and uncertainty and the money problems and all the anxiety that comes with it. I've had it. Simply had it. If I graduate from law school, I will almost certainly have a job. It's not what I REALLY want to do, but at some point you have to start being practical, and now is as good a time as any to begin.

So I'm headed home. I'll enroll in a prep course and take the LSAT's. I'm going to start up the application process as soon as can wrap up with my duties on this campaign. And I'm going to try to get an internship or a clerk position with a law firm back home. I have an offer from my sister to share an apartment with her, which would be alot of fun since we're really close.

In the end, you need something in life to look forward to. These last few days have been gut-wrenchingly painful and sad. I have rarely been so downcast and somber in my life. I'm still not over it all yet and will not be for a long time. But I'd like to think that I have control over my own life. If I make good decisions, plan for the future, and work hard, things can get better.

And don't worry, when it comes to this board, I'm here to stay.

Clark wouldn't back down? I thought Kerry/Edwards wouldn't back down. I don't know what the Dems will do these days. I hope you are right Mike, and I hope the DNC taps Howard Dean to head them up

Hey Mike,

I didn't flame John Kerry. I just spoke my mind in a business like manner.

And I'm not kvetching. (Good one Mike.) I'll supply information to a certain powerful lawyer to help bring down the * house, if that's possible - but the corruption in the system and bureaucrats is so pervasive, even without dimson, that the best thing might be a total collapse and a new start.

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people won't work for the democrats again, because of Kerry's conceding immediately. This may be the implosion of the party. Hmmm. Where is Kerry's Pluto again?
That would be an interesting subject to write on for Sally and Astroworld.

The only way I'd ever work for them again is if they pass a constitutional amendment that a president can serve a third and even fourth term, and if Bill Clinton could run again.

And by the way, the waste of materials and money I saw just in that one HQ was mind boggling. And the democratic party is asking for contributions? HA!

Obviously, when I FLAME, a person really knows it.

I hope he gets 50 million of those letters, so he gets up off his duff and uses those 10,000 lawyers.

(In answer to above, no we can't use the lawyers without paying them, but Kerry could - they volunteered...a massive generosity for lawyers - :)

Dave, the campaign manager!

I hope you don't mind my giving you a little advice.

Pick a career you like, that you love.

It's a long long time, many years to be settling and doing something you don;t like.

And btw, there are so many lawyers, that it isn't as lucrative, and most work on a kind of commission basis...not secure at all.

I know. Dave, why don't you give us your chart and we'll help you find the career you're meant to be in and that will pay you well ?

As others have said, I have a feeling that Kerry may have conceded for good reason. My first instinct is that he did not want to look like a spoiler, only to have the Supremes screw him, so instead he takes the high road, while some team that we are not yet aware of are working out a strategy. This could be the case. For some reason, I believe in this man. I feel he knows what he is doing and I trust that he did the right thing.

Pallas18, I am with you regarding Kerry and the dems. I'm so discusted with the way he just gave up and did not stand and fight that I don't think I could vote in any election ever again. My husband won't even speak of it anymore he is so enraged over the way Kerry rolled over and left us all hanging - he was not really for Kerry from the start and had reservations about him and Bush both being Skull & Bones which has a lot of secret goings on between members, but he voted for him and gave him the benefit of the doubt. Now that Kerry has just "left" he feels it was a set up from the beginning. He feels we are the laughing stock of the world right now because Kerry lost the fight and we have done nothing to challenge any of this. Democracy is dead and the Uber-Christians have taken over control and the political system as we know it is gone forever and no wishful thinking is going to bring it back. If Kerry can just walk away without a fight and goes down in a wimper instead of flames, then the light has gone out in the lighthouse and we are all left to struggle in the dark alone .. and the next four years are going to be very, very dark indeed.

Dave, your candidate did not win because you didn't push yourself to the max. Your candidate did not win because her detractors were just bozos. You are an inspiration to me (and I hope to others on this board) for you have worked, worked, worked for the wonderful country we are in danger of losing. You take some well-deserved bows, Dave, and bask in the respect and gratitude you so well deserve. And then, get on with your life and, whether that includes law school or not, the greatest success is wished for you.

Sharon - How I wish you were right!! But I doubt Bush would roll over and neither would his flag-wrapped rapture groupies. Would have to be one hell of an iron clad proof to get that man out of the White House now ... and I doubt it will happen. It would drag on in the courts longer than Bush's next term in office.

"But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: *there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 8:11-12).

we are 'cast out into the darkness'of rage and insecurity and it's our time to weep and gnash some teeth. gotta happen. angry is ok as long as we don't turn on each other.

pallas18, i do hope kerry gets 50 million letters like yours. i'm composing something 'appropriate' myself. btw, there is $5.0 million in the post election lawyer fund. that makes it even worse. free lawyers plus bucks to support them and money for some heavy hitters. it pisses me off too.

however, like the french, i have no permanent friends or permanent enemies (in politics), i only have permanent interests.

give me a tried and true * kicker with a good mind and heart and i'm ready to give/work again; and at a new level of intensity.

but, in the mean time, lets gnash.

Shylurker,

I appreciate your comments and you are absolutely right. All of the Democrats worked very hard this election cycle. See the rest of the comments below.

Pallas 18,

Feb 9th, 1981 - 7:45am. Any advice would be appreciated. Honestly, I would consult a professional astrologer at this time if I could afford to, but I do not have that luxury. I sense that now is the time to make a change in my life. I think that the sadness I feel as a result of this election (both my own race and what happened accross the nation) has opened my mind to other possibilities. I don't forsee leaving politics completely, just approaching it from a different (and more economically stable) direction. As said before, any advice would be appreciated.

A friend of mine from high school has his youngest son at Columbia U in NYC....on full scholarship, too....Len has said that he thinks that what his son wrote would be good for people to read. Addison is about 19 now, I think....
hey dad,

today was cool. i had philosophy class, then my last day in the
italian department, then a fun latin class. i came home, ate and
did some homework, then went to a meeting of the writers for the
varsity show. now i've got to do some greek, including
memorization of some lines from the iliad.
and yeah, the disappointment here is pretty palpable. i was sort of
expecting a bush win and didn't want to stay glued to the tv the
whole time, so i went downtown to a concert. my favorite band,
local h, was playing on 15th street and i had never seen them, and
since the thought of doing things i might never be able to do again
was likely lurking in the back of my mind as i imagined a second
term for bush, i hopped on the subway and went down there. the
people on the subways in new york are saints because they ressure.
they reassured me that the people in the place hardest hit by
"terror" aren't terrified, don't feel like living with fear, or the
politics of fear, or the veneer of strength so meticulously
displayed by the puny-hearted. 4 out of 5 of the people in the
only american city attacked in this war on feeling afraid, 4 out of
5 told bush he's not good enough. the people in the cities most
likely to be targeted by terrorists did the same. we don't feel
like being afraid, because it's useless and it gets in the way of
lives not lived alone. these people sit on the subways, gay,
straight, bi, trans, black, white, yellow, brown, newborn, young,
middle-aged, old, half-dead, bright, sad, crazy, happy, everyone
exhibiting a quiet, civic friendliness. Because we live together,
and we don't mind each other being each other. And then at the
concert, i liked the bands whose music i didn't even think was that
great, because they were making music and having fun. and then
local h knocked the club down. they (2 guys, one on guitar, one on
drums) just rocked the hell out of the place. and the lead singer
talked about how he wasn't moving to canada. and i thought then
and think now that yeah, there's no reason to flee, to be so
afraid, to snuff that spark that makes us wanna live on our own two
feet. too much fear and desperate sadness is what turns people into
putty, where the next person who can make you feel secure and safe
and cared for can get you to agree to anything. and as i observed
campus today, and with all the stuff i was doing, i realized just
how little the present administration, or any administration, can
really change my daily attitude. i'm not afraid to get up, to deal
with all sorts of people, to disagree with the majority, to poke fun
at myself, to wonder. i don't fear doing that. the only proper
fear is fearing that i won't live the best life i can with the life
i've got. the bush administration is incredibly small-time. an
eight-year blip within the few-centuries-long blip of American
history, within the few-more-centuries blip of western industrial
history, within the couple millenia blip of-you get the idea. and
in all those thousands of years, what has been important, and what
will keep being important? wonder, love, laughter, tears, cooking,
talking, music, and friends. the basics, the things done without
fear. the things which bring people back together. greed and fear
and hate and other distractions, most of all ignorance, can drive us
apart, and maybe some missile will blow us all away. maybe, maybe
not. a million things can kill anybody the second they step out
of, or even into bed. but why live afraid? why live trying to
look strong and cover up all the things that scare you, when you
can just be strong and not be afraid, come what may? any benefit
achieved by that fearful kind of life pales in comparison to simply
living well, to simply winning the war on terror in my own heart and
brushing the mass chest-puffing aside like so many breadcrumbs. I
don't hate bush or fear him. i reject what he does as morally
small. yes i worry about what he does, not because of fear but
because of affection for the people his actions have hurt and will
hurt and for him too. it just makes so much more sense to live by
love instead of dread. love operates on the knowledge that life
isn't safe. love is urgent, but it knows that no other life is
worth living. i realize that i should live urgently, but also
confidently. it's hard but worth it.
well, i need to get back to work. greek beckons. i start my new
job tomorrow. have a good day.

love,
ad

Sally, though I read your site regularly, I am pretty new to astrology. Like your members, I was deeply depressed when Kerry lost to Bush....crushed would be a better word.

I moderate on another board...a woman's board, where I have a seperate forum for political matters. It gets few responses anymore. You see, there are a lot of right wing religious women on our board who hate the truth. They voted moral issues instead of the impending danger we face from Bush and cronies.

The problem I see with fundamentalism, is that fundamentalism is different from Christianity as America (or history) has known it in the past. It's cultism at it's best (think Guana). Members follow their leaders like sheep to the slaughter, never questioning if their leaders are right or wrong. They thrive on the specialty market of books that cater to their dreams of Armageddon...and their selfish desire to get rid of the word. They believe they are entitled to wealth, healings and other miracles simply for instilling their stiff moral values not only into their lives...but everybody's else lives when they can. All the while, their leaders, authors and other charlatan leaders are getting wealthy off them. This is not the Christanity I remember this country being involved in. But try to tell them the truth and they abhor you as a Satan. I fear for America if they push their agenda on the rest of us....and I say from the standpoint of being a liberal Christian. (I wonder if there is any way to get a chart on the time period that fundamentalist Christianity started in America...to see where it going?)

I live in Florida...the Orlando area. I followed the Betty Castor campaign and voted for her. Betty Castor ran a decent campaign against a smut, mudracking, nasty, arrogant man by the name of Mel Martinez. Mel Martinez was the Bush choice and they pulled out all the stops when it came to mud slinging. My husband knew Betty Castor in the past, and says she's none of those lies Martinez camp tried to portray her as....but a decent woman who worked hard for Floridians. I am still angry about the way the Bushies were able to get away with that smear campaign.

Lastly, I am also on the Orlando Sentinel board. We Kerry supporters are getting slammed good by the Bush fans. But today one of my favorite posters put this link up....you might want to read it and analyze the possibilities as they relate to Bush's chart.

Quotes:

It is becoming ever-more apparent to those who dare notice, that, as Garrison Keillor puts it, our President is a few bulbs short of a full marquee. Moreover, as time goes on, more and more bulbs seem to be blinking out. snip snip

One long-time GOP political consultant who - for obvious reasons - asked not to be identified said he is advising his Republican Congressional candidates to keep their distance from Bush.

"We have to face the very real possibility that the President of the United States is loony tunes," he says sadly. "That's not good for my candidates, it's not good for the party and it's certainly not good for the country snip snip....

"As a physician and a professor, I tend to pick up on signs and symptoms of physical problems better than most other people. I am highly concerned with what I saw. The drooping left side of the President's face, his mouth and nasolabial fold (the crease in the face running from the nostril to the side of mouth) may be indicative of a recent stroke, TIA (transient ischemic attack)) or, possibly botox injections. I sincerely hope this was nothing more than botox injections.

http://www.opednews.com/partridge_102004_ashcrofthtm.htm

The article is not enlightening...and in fact quite woeful, as far as the consequences of who would be president if Bush were disposed. That is not the reason I posted it. I merely wanted to show what some people are saying about Bush's mental state....and the possibility that he may be incapable of finishing his term because of it.

I enjoy reading this board a lot. Even though Kerry didn't win as the various charts indicated...I believe he did win! I believe his election got stolen again.....and maybe something strange is yet to happen to Bush. The next months will be interesting to see how things develop in regards to his health.

On a post note...Mrs. John Edwards was diagnosed with breast cancer today. I don't know how that would have affected Edwards in a win....nor do I know how it will affect his political future either. But I extend my best wishes to the Edwards family and hope for a speedy recovering for Elizabeth Edwards.

Again...thanks for providing this wonderful site.

Sorry about the typo

'rid of the word' should have been 'rid of the world'

It pretty obvious we were robbed again and I am so disillusioned and my husband is so angry that the Democrats/Kerry just rolled over like abused dogs. I’ll be writing my letter to the Democratic Party too, but I honestly don’t know what can be done to change this abhorrent situation we all find ourselves in. I’m not sure this can be turned around in my lifetime and that is really a sad thought to be thinking. This country is no longer a democracy/republic and most of the dunderheads that voted for Bush don’t even realize it. Well, they will be getting a whole lot of things they didn’t realize they signed on for; more wars, more crime, more poverty and all those women that voted for Bush can look forward to being totally controlled, body and mind.

Oh Yea, and the sacred cow of social security is now on the Bush operating table and being dissected at this very moment and I hope the Bush supporters understand there is not enough Democrats to save it anymore. All that a lot of those poor Bible thumping Bush supporters have come retirement is the hope of Social Security. When and if they get to retire Bush will have long forgotten them and will be living high on the hog. They on the other hand will be lucky to be able to afford dog food to eat. I hope they remember they can always get a price break at Walmart on Alpo. "I really hate living in Jesus Land USA"

it looks more like democracy is being born than dying! the majority of the world hates bush, half the voting population is against him and probably a large portion of non-voters AND republicans who were too ingrained to vote party, want him out. unlike 2000, we know what we're dealing with and this administration will not be able to do anything without intense scrutiny! we've got them by the balls! bush is the type that only wants to win...he doesn't want the job...just wanted to beat daddy and get a second term...it's too hard now though and he can't and won't be able to take it. he may have been protected in the campaign but this is real life now and the whole world is up his a**. no more benefit of the doubt.
as far as the fundies go, they should not get the gift of kindness or the energy of anger. to fundies we are non entities, sinners, unsaved, going to hell...they only pity us...that's all.
with bush back in it will become very clear, very fast.
when lynn cheney said that kerry was not a good person then when kerry came out and told everyone how overwhelmed he was at the goodness of the people he met on the road, how he wanted to stretch his arms over the u.s. and hug us to his heart...there was pure love it him then .....lynn cheney became a big fat liar in one split second!
when he choked back tears, we all did.
don't give up!!! change is never easy...and that is what we all voted for, prayed for and in a convoluted way are getting.
pluto destroys...*ush ain't destroyed yet....and out of the ashes flies the phoenix.

This is Michael Moore's latest email post and it's worth a read, it fact the stats are downright heartening.

Dear Friends,

Ok, it sucks. Really sucks. But before you go and cash it all in, let's, in
the words of Monty Python, 'always look on the bright side of life!' There
IS some good news from Tuesday's election.

Here are 17 reasons not to slit your wrists:

1. It is against the law for George W. Bush to run for president again.

2. Bush's victory was the NARROWEST win for a sitting president since
Woodrow Wilson in 1916.

3. The only age group in which the majority voted for Kerry was young adults
(Kerry: 54%, Bush: 44%), proving once again that your parents are always
wrong and you should never listen to them.

4. In spite of Bush's win, the majority of Americans still think the
country is headed in the wrong direction (56%), think the war wasn't worth fighting (51%), and don't approve of the job George W. Bush is doing (52%). (Note to foreigners: Don't try to figure this one out. It's an American thing, like Pop Tarts.)

5. The Republicans will not have a filibuster-proof 60-seat majority in the
Senate. If the Democrats do their job, Bush won't be able to pack the
Supreme Court with right-wing ideologues. Did I say "if the Democrats do
their job?" Um, maybe better to scratch this one.

6. Michigan voted for Kerry! So did the entire Northeast, the birthplace of
our democracy. So did 6 of the 8 Great Lakes States. And the whole West
Coast! Plus Hawaii. Ok, that's a start. We've got most of the fresh water,
all of Broadway, and Mt. St. Helens. We can dehydrate them or bury them in
lava. And no more show tunes!

7. Once again we are reminded that the buckeye is a nut, and not just any
old nut -- a poisonous nut. A great nation was felled by a poisonous nut.
May Ohio State pay dearly this Saturday when it faces Michigan.

8. 88% of Bush's support came from white voters. In 50 years, America will
no longer have a white majority. Hey, 50 years isn't such a long time! If
you're ten years old and reading this, your golden years will be truly
golden and you will be well cared for in your old age.

9. Gays, thanks to the ballot measures passed on Tuesday, cannot get married
in 11 new states. Thank God. Just think of all those wedding gifts we won't
have to buy now.

10. Five more African Americans were elected as members of Congress,
including the return of Cynthia McKinney of Georgia. It's always good to
have more blacks in there fighting for us and doing the job our candidates
can't.

11. The CEO of Coors was defeated for Senate in Colorado. Drink up!

12. Admit it: We like the Bush twins and we don't want them to go away.

13. At the state legislative level, Democrats picked up a net of at least 3
chambers in Tuesday's elections. Of the 98 partisan-controlled state
legislative chambers (house/assembly and senate), Democrats went into the
2004 elections in control of 44 chambers, Republicans controlled 53
chambers, and 1 chamber was tied. After Tuesday, Democrats now control 47
chambers, Republicans control 49 chambers, 1 chamber is tied and 1 chamber
(Montana House) is still undecided.

14. Bush is now a lame duck president. He will have no greater moment than
the one he's having this week. It's all downhill for him from here on out --
and, more significantly, he's just not going to want to do all the hard work
that will be expected of him. It'll be like everyone's last month in 12th
grade -- you've already made it, so it's party time! Perhaps he'll treat the
next four years like a permanent Friday, spending even more time at the
ranch or in Kennebunkport. And why shouldn't he? He's already proved his
point, avenged his father and kicked our ass.

15. Should Bush decide to show up to work and take this country down a very
dark road, it is also just as likely that either of the following two
scenarios will happen: a) Now that he doesn't ever need to pander to the
Christian conservatives again to get elected, someone may whisper in his ear
that he should spend these last four years building "a legacy" so that
history will render a kinder verdict on him and thus he will not push for
too aggressive a right-wing agenda; or b) He will become so cocky and
arrogant -- and thus, reckless -- that he will commit a blunder of such
major proportions that even his own party will have to remove him from
office.

16. There are nearly 300 million Americans -- 200 million of them of voting
age. We only lost by three and a half million! That's not a landslide -- it
means we're almost there. Imagine losing by 20 million. If you had 58 yards
to go before you reached the goal line and then you barreled down 55 of
those yards, would you stop on the three yard line, pick up the ball and go
home crying -- especially when you get to start the next down on the three
yard line? Of course not! Buck up! Have hope! More sports analogies are
coming!!!

17. Finally and most importantly, over 55 million Americans voted for the
candidate dubbed "The #1 Liberal in the Senate." That's more than the total
number of voters who voted for either Reagan, Bush I, Clinton or Gore.
Again, more people voted for Kerry than Reagan. If the media are looking for
a trend it should be this -- that so many Americans were, for the first time
since Kennedy, willing to vote for an out-and-out liberal. The country has
always been filled with evangelicals -- that is not news. What IS news is
that so many people have shifted toward a Massachusetts liberal. In fact,
that's BIG news. Which means, don't expect the mainstream media, the ones
who brought you the Iraq War, to ever report the real truth about November
2, 2004. In fact, it's better that they don't. We'll need the element of
surprise in 2008.

Feeling better? I hope so. As my friend Mort wrote me yesterday, "My
Romanian grandfather used to say to me, 'Remember, Morton, this is such a
wonderful country -- it doesn't even need a president!'"

But it needs us. Rest up, I'll write you again tomorrow.

Yours,

Michael Moore
MMFlint@aol.com
www.michaelmoore.com

Regarding Diotima's comments...

I was just wondering if anyone else had noticed the downward slant to bush's mouth and his obvious inability to carry a thought through to it's conclusion in the second debate. Great posting!

Perhaps the intent of the republican party was to have Cheney take over all along? He's definitely been the "power behind the throne" anyway.

Shudder...........

BUSH: Work With Me or Be Left Out
By Terence Hunt

US voters had backed President George W. Bush's agenda for sweeping change at home and abroad, Mr Bush said today.

He warned that Democrats and others must work with him or be left behind.

"I've earned capital in this election – and I'm going to spend it," Mr Bush said, after this week's decisive victory that made him the first president in 68 years to win re-election and gain seats in both the House and Senate.

"You've heard the agenda: social security and tax reform, moving this economy forward, education, fighting and winning the war on terror," the President said. MORE~
http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,11294130%255E1702,00.html

Did you read the Molly Ivins article. All those things Starrynights Bush thinks he has a mandate for, is going to hang around the neck of this country until Mr. Bush and his mandate are rotting and choking them to death. We are in a much better position because we see it coming and can prepare for it. If you have health insurance use it this year to get a good physical and needed tests. Learn about alternative medicine, build a community of like minded people. I've said many times, buy eruos, gold or silver if you have even a little money. There are things we can do even if we don't have much, think about what you can do with the little you do have. We will make it through in much better shape.

Okay, is there anything to this voter fraud thing? If so, WHAT CAN WE DO ABOUT IT?

Some thoughts to cheer us up!

As revolting as I find this election and dimson, I cherish a few ideas that make me perk up a little. Namely, I think that w is in for the time from hell from now to however long he lasts in the presidency. I am reminded of Trickey Dick's 2nd term when I was a lowly college freshman. It was a bitter fruit he won after all, to have his pants pulled down on the world stage for all to see his shortcomings!

Besides the very good posts on this and other boards that astrologically point to some very rough times ahead for dimson (Saturn return etc, the Winner shall be the Loser, etc.), there is a lot of mundane news that is not going away anytime soon such as the out-of-control deficit, and the out-of-control mess in Iraq. I do beleive that a large number of repugs are privately shuddering at what is going on as well. Sooner or later these ugly-bitch chickens are coming home to roost! Taking away the born-again repug nuts, I can't help but wonder if between the military and some "normal" conservatives if bush won't ultimately get thrown to the lions. (how's that for a little "christian imagery"?)

I think that so much sh*t is about to hit the fan (not the LEAST of which is the mess in Iraq) that not even the spinmeisters will be able to hide it all. (I also wonder where John McCain fits in all this. He appears to have knuckled under, what has he been promised? the veep appointee spot when Cheney resigns or what?) From both a mundane viewpoint and an astro/psychic one I beleive that bush is very close to a complete meltdown. As pointed out above, he has new odder facial tics/appearance.

I too feel fearful at times about this country, but I also beleive Light triumphs in the end. Sometimes it takes one extreme to swing the pendulumn the other way. We have at this time in US history proably the largest number of people who are in some form or other following "alternative" Spiritual views and practices. I do beleive that a little Light cast out awhole lot of Darkness, and the in the end we will prevail. When the ugli-chix start roosting bush will crack. Also wait and see how many fundies support the insane war when they or their loved ones get threatend with draft. This is far far from over. I feel an approaching whirlwind that will rotor-rooter w's ass like a White Tornado. Maybe Tecumseh is saving the best for last. Anyone care to do a little astrological back-up for me on this one? Lets start our Flying Chicken Watch now!!!

Lawrie the Astro Amatuer

Good article by Robin Cook, former Foreign
Minister of Great Britain....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,5055750-103677,00.html

Contrary to my previous hope, November 2nd was not some magic day when everything would be put right. If Kerry had been accepted, or if he should still by some unknown action be inaugurated... this country would still be the same as it is now... only our half would ‘feel’ it was different.

Transiting Pluto is bringing down structures... a necessary process for rebirth. We look at the Fundies and fault their adoration of dubya as god’s appointed/anointed, the one who will bring about the rapture, save them from this evil they see on earth. We, on the other hand, look to a ‘leader’ of the Democratic Party, who can get elected and ‘save’ this country from the direction it is headed. We are all, like Cinderella, looking for a Prince to save us. Perhaps Pluto’s lesson is it ain’t gonna happen. If the Age of Aquarius is coming in, the mess of Pisces has to be purged. We have spent 2,000 years looking for someone to 'save us'... an idea whose time is past (imo).

Frankly, the present political system stinks, imho. I don’t like the Electoral College. I would prefer a basket of political parties, rather than two wings of one. The House is a mess... Congresspersons spend their entire two year term trying to get reelected, while Senators relax in their six year reward using the first four years to wreck the country, and the last two to appease, and get reelected. Do we even need an Executive Office? Do we need a ‘Leader’? At present as the only ‘superpower’ (whatever that is) we have licensed the creation of an omnipotent god whom we call President. Shock ‘n awe (or rather operation “Shechinach”) woke me to that realization. Who is going to stop the ‘President’ from declaring war on anyone or any nation? And how many more times do we have to vote, to intellectualize, internalize, understand, believe ... they’ve already been ‘counted’. [Ask your Black friends and neighbors about that one.] Throw out the touchscreen machines you say? Well, they would STILL find a way to throw out votes, disenfranchise voters.

What we are up against is POWER, pure raw, unadulterated power... being abused like never before in the history of this country... perhaps the world.

The WHOLE system has to come DOWN... In the words of the Sixties — my message to Pluto is ‘burn baby, burn’! resurrection is the only way. I’m going to take the advice of Sally and several others and look to protect myself and my grandchildren. And watch the actions of these devils and thwart them when I can ... but if you remember the result of our valiant efforts with Sinclair... the stinkin’ documentary hit the air waves as they planned, two days before the election.

I'm not giving up by any means. But I'm going to let the Neocons self-destruct and work as hard as I can against war... the killing and maiming is unacceptable for me.

Kerry was not defeated dammit. He won, just like Al Gore won. I'm tired of the fascist takeover of the United States. Why the heck do we go to the effort to vote, when all that happens is the Democrats roll over and hand it to the fanatics because they demand it, and they have the media. It's such an obvious coup. Who in the world will actually trust a Democratic Administration in the present, or the future when the Democrats just cooperate with the bullies, if the bullies say so.

I'm an American, and I'm not use to this fascism. My father fought his ass off to keep this kind of fascism out of power.
...
Do people not remember that religious persecution is the reason the North American continent became populated by Europeans in the first place? What the hell is going on? Who cares if they call it sour grapes? I mean who really cares?

I want representation dammit! I demand it, and if it is really gone, then who can blame people who actually do treasure freedom for leaving this fascist mud hole and seeking a much more intelligent way of life? This is a rigged wrestling match.

DISGRACEFUL, AND THE MOST ONEROUS BETRAYAL OF OUR ANCESTORS....

Mark, for starters, go to BLACKBOX VOTONG.COM and ask if you can help.

Sorry, it is blackboxvoting.com

http://www.mirror.co.uk/voiceofthemirror/

BUSH'S WIN PUTS US ALL IN DANGER

?AMERICA'S greatest president, Abraham Lincoln, once advised: "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."

Those who voted George Bush in for four more years removed all doubt that the majority of Americans have learned little since September 11, 2001.

In the months that followed the destruction of New York's Twin Towers, the people of the United States had the sympathy of the world.

President Bush lost it for them. He took his country into a war which has cost 1,100 American lives and tens of billions of dollars.

He has alienated virtually every other country. If people of other nations had a vote, he would have lost by a landslide.

He has been hopeless at running the US economy, turning a record budget surplus into a record deficit. He has lost millions of jobs. He cut a million people out of health care.

His much-trumpeted tax cuts put a fortune in the pockets of the super-rich while doing next to nothing for ordinary Americans. Yet they voted him back.

With another four Bush years ahead, the future looks desperate. For us in Britain it could be particularly bad.

If Tony Blair continues his sycophantic following of the President we will become still more isolated.

The situation in Iraq is bad enough. But Mr Bush wants to go after Iran next.

The world was a dangerous enough place after 9/11. President Bush's military bravado has made it worse. In the next four years it is likely to become more terrifying still. Making it more, not less likely that we are at risk of a terrorist attack.

That is what the majority of the American people have done by re-electing an ignorant, arrogant, swaggering administration.

Abraham Lincoln must be turning in his grave.

Sharon, that concession speech gave me my first laugh since Tuesday.

I personally welcome the Rapture. I look forward to having all those slack-jawwed, Bible-thumping, clueless-to-the-real-message, moronic born agains get sucked off the planet all at once. Bring it! Praise Jesus.

Hit 'em where it hurts. We saw how effective one little blog-started boycott almost brought Sinclair to its knees. We can shop our anger. Buy in health food stores. Don't watch TV. Let the ratings drop. Half the country can do lots of damage to their gravy train. Money is what powers them and it's OUR money that does it. Withhold it from them. Make them cry.

We can't give up. God, it hurts so much, but we have to get angry and get going again. Boycott, boycott, boycott.

Believe it or not, I am actually feeling better - almost glad (?) that Chimp "won" because now, he has to stew in his own cesspool. All the calamities that are about to befall us can be squarely put on the Repugnants' shoulders. They can't whine that it was someone else's fault. And a Michael Moore said, this was razor thin. We HAVE to make a huge stink about these voting machines, too.

I just hate to see so many creast-fallen people who are so good and loving and compassionate.

Hear this: WE HAVE POWER and it resides in our wallets.

God bless Michael Moore.

The single MOST important part of a democracy is a fair election. If we don't fight this, try to rationalize it, the loss of our democracy is our faults.
My god in heaven!

http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20040920&s=zinn

In this awful world where the efforts of caring people often pale in comparison to what is done by those who have power, how do I manage to stay involved and seemingly happy?

I am totally confident not that the world will get better, but that we should not give up the game before all the cards have been played. The metaphor is deliberate; life is a gamble. Not to play is to foreclose any chance of winning. To play, to act, is to create at least a possibility of changing the world.

There is a tendency to think that what we see in the present moment will continue. We forget how often we have been astonished by the sudden crumbling of institutions, by extraordinary changes in people's thoughts, by unexpected eruptions of rebellion against tyrannies, by the quick collapse of systems of power that seemed invincible.

What leaps out from the history of the past hundred years is its utter unpredictability. A revolution to overthrow the czar of Russia, in that most sluggish of semi-feudal empires, not only startled the most advanced imperial powers but took Lenin himself by surprise and sent him rushing by train to Petrograd. Who would have predicted the bizarre shifts of World War II--the Nazi-Soviet pact (those embarrassing photos of von Ribbentrop and Molotov shaking hands), and the German Army rolling through Russia, apparently invincible, causing colossal casualties, being turned back at the gates of Leningrad, on the western edge of Moscow, in the streets of Stalingrad, followed by the defeat of the German army, with Hitler huddled in his Berlin bunker, waiting to die?

And then the postwar world, taking a shape no one could have drawn in advance: The Chinese Communist revolution, the tumultuous and violent Cultural Revolution, and then another turnabout, with post-Mao China renouncing its most fervently held ideas and institutions, making overtures to the West, cuddling up to capitalist enterprise, perplexing everyone.

No one foresaw the disintegration of the old Western empires happening so quickly after the war, or the odd array of societies that would be created in the newly independent nations, from the benign village socialism of Nyerere's Tanzania to the madness of Idi Amin's adjacent Uganda. Spain became an astonishment. I recall a veteran of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade telling me that he could not imagine Spanish Fascism being overthrown without another bloody war. But after Franco was gone, a parliamentary democracy came into being, open to Socialists, Communists, anarchists, everyone.

The end of World War II left two superpowers with their respective spheres of influence and control, vying for military and political power. Yet they were unable to control events, even in those parts of the world considered to be their respective spheres of influence. The failure of the Soviet Union to have its way in Afghanistan, its decision to withdraw after almost a decade of ugly intervention, was the most striking evidence that even the possession of thermonuclear weapons does not guarantee domination over a determined population. The United States has faced the same reality. It waged a full-scale war in lndochina, conducting the most brutal bombardment of a tiny peninsula in world history, and yet was forced to withdraw. In the headlines every day we see other instances of the failure of the presumably powerful over the presumably powerless, as in Brazil, where a grassroots movement of workers and the poor elected a new president pledged to fight destructive corporate power.

Looking at this catalogue of huge surprises, it's clear that the struggle for justice should never be abandoned because of the apparent overwhelming power of those who have the guns and the money and who seem invincible in their determination to hold on to it. That apparent power has, again and again, proved vulnerable to human qualities less measurable than bombs and dollars: moral fervor, determination, unity, organization, sacrifice, wit, ingenuity, courage, patience--whether by blacks in Alabama and South Africa, peasants in El Salvador, Nicaragua and Vietnam, or workers and intellectuals in Poland, Hungary and the Soviet Union itself. No cold calculation of the balance of power need deter people who are persuaded that their cause is just.

More...

We have to work or we will be worked.

My plan: Euros, passport renewal, pay off debts, save money, live alot smaller and part of that is about boycotting Rethug businesses. Stay with who makes me happy and not fearfilled.

My dark thoughts :OBL chases down rednecks and * fundies . The Fundies who now have no Dems to blame will turn on each other and hopefully * and his minions.

The only thing that keeps me sane these days, besides this wonderful site, is the 2005 innaugural chart. Had Kerry taken the presidency I was trying to fit the symbolism of Chiron into what I believed he'd use the energy for, that of building a bridge from the old age to the new. But now with Bush back in charge, I can't help but wonder how it is all going to play out. A wounded presidency and opposed by Saturn? Still the moon in Gemini, dual, split is trining Neptune in Aqu, sigh.

With USA progressed Sun in the sign of Pisces, I look at that symbol, with two curves of the circle separated and going in different directions but bound together with the one bar. Shows our divisions as a country quite well. I can't help but see it too as a pull between trying to hold on to the past and trying to reach towards the future.

There are so many levels here. I can't wait for an indepth discussion of the '05 chart by the professionals here. Thanks again, everyone for all your contributions and especially Sally for having created this place.

Pat C. bravo! Thanks so much for the Nation article, a much needed and helpful read.

Amen, Bhakti.

And another thing! Since all the blue states hold most of the country's wealth, if things just get really insane (gee, what's my watermark there?), stockholders can threaten to dump their stocks in all companies that support this regime. Watch the media change their tune if suddenly all their advertisers are going belly-up because stock holders are bailing in droves.

PS - don't think defeat - think POWER. We have it. Bullies are never as smart as they think they are. We need to organize. That's the key to it all. The 3 Bs:

Boycott
Bail stock
and
Blackbox

Good morning all.

I'm so proud of the people and spirit and good minds assembled here.

A tenet of metaphysics is that you attract what you are ..... the spirit and energy of the person who started this site attracted like energy. That's Sally and the energy here is warm, bright & intelligent and wonderful!

Judi, Addison's parents must be very special to have brought up and instilled values in a child like that.

Jo, what you wrote should be an article..you might
reprint it on DU.There was just too much good and right on for me to pick anyone sentence to repeat!

Mike- " no permanent friends or enemies in politics, only permanent interests" - that's the first time I've heard that, and it says it all. Thank you. If we're going to play in their yard, iwe need to remember it every day.

Sally said:

"If you have health insurance use it this year to get a good physical and needed tests. Learn about alternative medicine," (I might add, if you're close to 62 apply for Social Security NOW.You can as much as a year ahead.)

"build a community of like minded people."

" "I've said many times, buy eruos, gold or silver if you have even a little money. There are things we can do even if we don't have much, think about what you can do with the little you do have. We will make it through in much better shape."

Sally - where could we get/buy silver and gold? Should it be coins to carry? certainly not stocks which may go in the toilet, correct ?

(This is pretty terrible when you realize during the first half of the last century Europeans ran around with diamonds and gold and silver in case they had to run from their countries and needed a means of exchange.)

Details of where and what to buy as a means of exchange are needed. They advertise coins on TV -silver and gold, Kronen something...any good?

How trusting of us. The prices are probably going sky high today,,,,we should have listened to Sally and bought before...she must have said it at least 6 months ago.

Concede Nothing to Bush:
Black Consensus Remains Intact

snippet:

Kerry’s separate peace

As usual, the corporate media pretend that the Republican’s bullying and official criminality in the weeks preceding Election Day – events they covered – never happened. John Kerry collaborates in the farce, proclaiming in his public concession speech that America is in "desperate need for unity, for finding common ground and coming together. Today, I hope we can begin the healing."

But the troops who carried him, the Black men and women targeted for harassment and humiliation at the polls, are bleeding on the field, many of their votes never to be counted or even acknowledged. The vaunted legions of Democratic lawyers that were supposed to descend on Ohio and Florida to tear apart the rigged systems of electoral apartheid were told to stand down on Tuesday night. PBS News Hour’s Margaret Warner told viewers that Kerry’s legal team advocated a “scorched earth” policy to challenge the crooked system until it screamed – a result Democratic troops would have cheered. Kerry overruled his lawyers, to make a false peace with the Pirates.

please read the entire article at:

http://www.blackcommentator.com/112/112_cover_election.html

Safety and survival first. Begin to inform each other.

And the children. They will now enforce a draft, but also they have announced they will now put Females in combat - in the shooting....

So start planning how to get your children of draftable age out of the country. Conscientious objector? find out if that will still work.

At the polls I worked with an active duty 20 year army person. His daughter is also in. He has given her advice about what unit to join in order to avoid the shooting.

Get your near army age children out of the country and to a country that won't support or send them back to the US.

We are not going to win a war in the Middle East,surrounded by 1.5 billion Arabs with more Muslims arriving every day, unless they begin nuking.

Our children are just cannon fodder. If they use nukes, our children and grandchildren will be under the cloud also.

Safety and survival- think that first. You need that in order to be a resistance.

Don't you think?

Pat - your article - Kerry overruled the lawyers
scorched earth/tear apart the rigged crooked election....

Porco Judas - in Italian , Judas Pig.

A stalking horse for Bush, after all.

Porco Judas. Have we been taken and how !!!!

http://www.blackcommentator.com/112/112_cover_election.html

"The vaunted legions of Democratic lawyers that were supposed to descend on Ohio and Florida to tear apart the rigged systems of electoral apartheid were told to stand down on Tuesday night. PBS News Hour’s Margaret Warner told viewers that Kerry’s legal team advocated a “scorched earth” policy to challenge the crooked system until it screamed – a result Democratic troops would have cheered.

Kerry overruled his lawyers, to make a false peace with the Pirates.

Pallas, I've been researching the gold, gold bond, silver markets for when I am able to invest. Check this place out if you want, I've read it's the best? http://www.everbank.com/main.asp?affid=eb

Jo, your comments are right on.

No attachments, all you lovely wonderful people, it truly is the only path to freedom.

I promise this is my last post until late afternoon - forgive me for hogging space.

Off to the chiropractor to repair the damage I've done to my physical body in support of a false savior.

NOw I'm really angry.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Dave, you gave us your birthdate and time, but not your birthplace.

Would you post that again with the birthplace?

Pallas: right on. This is how our thinking should be from here on out. Start to focus on the individual. We've been focused outwardly, on saving our nation. Now it's time to think about ourselves.

We really need to be thinking about our young people. I think that when the draft comes (I've heard it's going to be in January), the old excuses that worked during VietNam will no longer apply. We're short handed, and using the "I'm gay" approach won't work any longer. So get used to the idea.

Parents should start thinking about getting their kids out. New Zealand may be a possibility. I've read that you can actually purchase a citizenship in Portugal. There are lots of South American countries where US dollars are welcome.

Our kids are the future of this country. Being a conscientious objector will probably land them in jail, but they're probably safer there than out in the trenches.

I'm fully prepared to take my 3 "cannon fodder" teenage boys out.

http://www.tomdispatch.com/index.mhtml?emx=x&pid=1984

Chalmers Johnson on the CIA and a blowback world

No longer will Dick Cheney have to pay visits to Langley, Virginia and lean on CIA analysts to produce the kind of intelligence a Veep might need; not now that the President has his man, Republican loyalist Porter J. Goss, heading up the Agency, and a second term in hand. Of course, the CIA was already highly politicized in the first Bush term. Run by George Tenet (accurately dubbed "a political apparatchik" by Toronto Sun columnist Eric Margolis), throughout most of the last four years, it proved a servile agency despite possessing perfectly clear-eyed analysts who knew the truth about Iraq and wanted to pass it on.

But not, it seemed, servile enough. Unhappy with the intelligence pickings from the CIA, the Bush administration turned to its loveably, unreliable then-"friend," Iraqi exile Ahmed Chalabi, for the sort of intelligence that could actually be used to terrify a nation into war -- you know, all those weapons of mass destruction in Saddam's hands, all those ties between Saddam and al-Qaeda -- and then Douglas Feith, the number three man in the Pentagon, created the Office of Special Plans to "search for information on Iraq's hostile intentions or links to terrorists." It cherry-picked intelligence from Chalabi and others and passed it up the line to those eager to speak of mushroom clouds going off over American cities.

Such a complicated process, though. Now, former Republican congressman as well as ex-CIA agent and spy-recruiter Goss will bring no less loyal political aides from the House and elsewhere into the Agency's leadership and so simplify matters in a second Bush term. Already, before November 2, Goss's CIA was working hard to suppress crucial 9/11 information, as Los Angeles Times columnist Robert Scheer reported. The CIA will now be but another, ever expanding militarized arm of an administration that will already control Congress (hence no possibility of serious oversight over the Agency), significant parts of our courts and justice system, a media machine, a political machine, a religious machine, a majority of the state governments in our federalist system, and sizeable hunks of the government bureaucracy. The President, in other words, will have his own intelligence arm and secret army at his beck and interventionist call for the next four years, and no one around to take a peek. The ultimate check on the administration was the electorate and it just failed. (Oh, let's not forget that there will at least be angry CIA agents and others still stuck in this highly politicized system, feeling betrayed, and as things begin to go truly off the tracks, leaking like mad.)

More...

A draft in January - UGH. But this makes sense. Since people under 30 were the highest voting audience for Kerry, the Bush administration can just kill them off in a "war" and gaurantee that these young voters can't become the intelligence and compassion of America's future.

Wanted to mention that with the Republican religous nut-job throwbacks from the 50's in charge of our entire country...maybe they will now start fighting amongst themselves? Without an "enemy" (the evil liberal democrats) - they will have no one to turn all of that hate and fear towards but each other.

_________________________________
The swelling white Republican base that triumphed on Election Day, is a nightmare. Although their actual numbers may well have been augmented by electronic means in counties with computerized voting (including the whole state of Georgia, for example), there can be no doubt that the Bush victory was propelled by something very much like a mass social movement, with its own vocabulary and leadership structures. This is Bush’s army, says Dr. Dawson. “The Bush administration has achieved absolute mastery of white Protestants, particularly those with less education. This is damning for the country and its future.”

After spending yesterday stranded at the airport I'm absoloutely astounded at the quantity and quality of the posts coming in.

I sincerely hope that the 'concession' is a ruse to buy some time without coming across as spoilers when it boils over. I would love it if it was.

The more I think about it, the more I see GWB as the personification of the USA's shadow. The thing is the shadow needs to be processed before you can move forward and unfortunately so many are tied in with his karma. The problem for you and the rest of the world is that the guy is a tyrant. Well, there's only one way to deal with a tyrant - punch him in the nose real hard! Just like any bullyboy square up to them and they quickly back off.

So how do we give him a punch in the nose?

Well, just because Kerry has conceded doesn't mean the people have to. Surely there's a senator somewhere who will back a petition questioning the validity of all touchscreen voting - and this should be done at all levels. It could shange the profile of the senate, congress, local level. All these things are important.

There should also be TOTAL electoral reform.

Paper ballots only to be stamped on collection - NO punchcards or machines or computers. If it's good enough for the UK & Australia the why not the USA?

Switch to a preferential voting system - that way nobody can be elected without 50%+1 of the vote.
How does it work? Simple. Instead of a cross on the ballot you fill it with numbers.

Bush 3
Gore 2
Nader 1

I have just cast my ballot for Nader but given Gore my second preference and put Bush last.

After the first count:

Bush 48%
Gore 47%
Nader 5%

Ah, that pesky Nader has screwed up the country!
Not so under a preferential system. We now distribute Nader's second preferences to the candidates as none has 50%+1 required to be elected.

As it turns out 80% of Nader's second preferences went to Gore and only 20% to Bush. The final result is then:

Gore 51%
Bush 49%
after distribution of second preferences.
Gore carries Florida.

Ok, another problem in the US is that you register as a Republican, Democrat, Independent - this exposes the election to fraud. It cannot be a fair election if it is not a secret ballot and that means that you should not have your party affiliation there ready to be exploited by the unscrupulous(sp) when applying for a postal vote.

IF you want to join with the Republicans or the Democrats then you join the party and have internal elections for candidates. What has the decision of partisan candidates got to do with anyone but the parties concerned? I believe this is the case in every established democracy other than the US. Anyone affliated with a political party should be banned from running any kind of official election. The Australian Electoral Commission is a government department and therefore excludes any public servant from membership of any political party. This should be the minimum if an election is going to be called 'fair'.

It's also time to get into the gutter and do to GWB what the thugs did to Clinton. Fight dirty and hard and give them the shock of their lives. NO more, lets unite the nation and stand behind the fuhrer, er president. DOn't give the b**t*rds a sniff. ANything the lying B*sh wants just don't give it to him. Anyone who's peddling anything on shockjock stations should be targeted actively - make life for them hard and miserable until they stop sponsoring the b8st8rds. Hit them in their wallets. It's the Blue states with the wealth. (Pull out of the Union if you want to - no taxation without representation! Form armed militias to protect your constitutional rights - throw their rhetoric right back at them. Jeez, they think they can kill for peace?)

Expose the fraud, scream out loud - I'm LIBERAL and I'm PROUD!

More important than that, don't blame each other or the Democrats. You are the Democrats and you are the democrats. Shape the party in YOUR image and don't let the cabals dictate who you select as your representative. IF you want Kucinich vote for Kucinich and don't be scared if 'he's too liberal' - and make sure you get a second bite at the cherry with a preferential vote You did win. We're all awake and we're ready to stop the b8st8rds and make the world a better place.

It's not over. It is like 1940. Hitler is in France, Poland, Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark and Norway. He thinks he has won. HE HAS NOT. This is just a subtle version of Saddam's 99.8% election in Iraq a couple of years back - and just as valid. It's a coup, a violation - you're entitled to overthrow it.

Good republicans, libertarians and socialists(like me) who believe in kindness, decency and true democracy all around the world are with you.

The astrologers have NOT BEEN WRONG. Zogby has NOT BEEN WRONG. There was not a free and fair election on NOv. 2nd. If it had been, JFK would now be President elect of the US. This is the Neptunian/Uranian deception - tele-evangialism.

Instead, you have the Emperor, Fuhrer GWB endorsed as Hitler was several times through a combination of fear, controlled press and outright fraud after the burning of the Reichstag.

According to the constitution you, the People of the United States, have the power to remove any government that seeks to oppress you. I don't think you need JFK or the Democratic Party to do that for you. Believe in your own power all the time not just every four years.

I really apologise if I come on too preachy but I really do believe in people power and it needs to be reclaimed by people the world over.

I think you're all great, fallible, interesting, enlightened and, most importantly, good people.

Just don't give up - only then does GWB win.

*************************************************

Biosoul,

If you want to know all there is to know on the morph go to www.stuartwilde.com. The morph found him a few years ago and will give you a lot of hope for the future. Stuie is saying that 'the Roman Empire' is going to start crumbling in the day or so - though not quickly. (Has anyone noted the earth tremors around Seattle?)

The Ultimate Felony Against Democracy...

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/printer_110604Z.shtml

Nexxus - Their "enemy" has not gone away. If you'll recall they managed to "blame" lib'ruls for everything that's gone wrong past four years even though they had control (albeit not as much as they do now) of House and Presidency.

No, no, no...they will only be able to unite in their mad fervor to figure out how to "deal" with the enemy. With the eroding of human rights I don't have such a good feeling about our situation. Recall too, that in Germany even after they had disenfranchised the Jews (and other targeted groups) their fervor did not abate. It just cleared the way for them to act on their hysteria.

Sorry to be so glum......

As noted by Democratic Underground, some numbers just don't add up, specially in counties with electronic voting. Check out these examples:

http://ustogether.org/Florida_Election.htm

Franklin County. 77.3% of voters registered Dems. Only 15.9% registered Reps. 58.5% of the votes reported FOR BUSH???

Holmes County. 72.7% of voters registered Dems. Only 21.3% registered Reps. 77% of the votes reported FOR BUSH???

Calhoun County. 82.4% of voters registered Dems. Only 11.9% registered Reps. 63.4% of the votes reported FOR BUSH???
And on, and on...

I think we need a serious audit here.

Remember what Lutin says about Kerry in Nov 5's
Daily Fix. http://www.michaellutin.com/dailyfix.htm

Kerry on the other hand is in a strong position.
Much support with Venus and Jupiter in his eleventh house which besides showing support from great numbers of people also suggests greater freedom over the next year and pluto on his Sun
but the opposition to his seventh house pileup
seemed to me difficult for him right now to overcome opposition.

Saturn in the eighth going retrograde doesn't seem like the exact configuration of feeling like you get what you want. The presence of Pluto in his sign in his first house indicated to me that
his contribution long term to effect transformation in the USA might be more powerfully manifested in the role of activist almost as a rebel or outcast. we'll see

Also, Bill Herbst in his article, 'After the Election'
http://www.billherbst.com/News70.pdf
Where he notes an inordinant amount of Uranian transits to Kerry's chart along with what trans Pluto has been doing.

Perhaps it is not for Kerry to be president, but with his N Node conjoined with Pluto, I don't think his destiny is over yet.

The Black Commentator can always be counted on as a barometer of truth for the political situation. White folks see things through their own comfort zone. Democratic America? Another of our many illusions?

Pallas, thank you for the kudos, but I can't navigate the site at DU... not technically savvy enough I guess. Shylurker has tried numerous times to email me links and I STILL get lost!

I'm afraid I'm doing my usual Gemini thing... exposing all my angst. With all these wonderful Scorpio mirrors I should be learning how to better use my Scorpio ruled 3rd house and hold my opinions closer to the chest... Pluto is in my 4th now, so maybe the transformation of my 3rd is not complete?

Some Saturn working in my chart. Transiting Saturn returns to position of 29 1/2 + years ago, when my sojourn into political office ended in defeat in bid for reelection. I am not proud to say so... but I was once a Repub... was thrown out after Watergate. Raised in the heartland of the Democratic Party, I was aware of the bigotry. Innocently and naively I made a switch to Repub about the same time all the racists did... Didn’t realize they were coming with me! (my Uranus ruled chart has never been in sync with the times)... came to my senses (?) though and ret'd to the Democratic fold in the late 70s... my political activities were as intense as they are now. Today I am asking myself if I have learned anything in 30 years. I'm a 'fixer' by nature. Hate to discard ANYTHING... attachment is a huge issue for me.

Sweeping the kitchen this a.m. I realized that we can't continue to put bandaids on this faulty system. I tried moving my needle to a different groove in the 70s. It was a disaster. I saw the same kind of suppression of the progressive vote last weekend... local Dem Hdqtrs wasn't calling to GOTV for Dems... we were calling 'Independents' (Repugs?) to vote for Inez. I voiced my protest. Refused to call. Asked to canvass the Black neighborhoods to get out the vote. They wouldn't let me have the materials. The elderly Black gentleman who is Chairman of the local party was not allowed access by the State Hdqtrs. to local precinct info. I told him straight up I believed a deal had been cut to try to elect Inez.

Now it appears Kerry gave up the fight. Pallas, I have to say I was upset when you said upthread you were angry with Kerry. But, I'm beginning to believe you are right on...

I'm still processing, but I don't believe I'm going to be supporting any wing of this one party system any time soon. Maybe that's my angst... my sorrow speaking. Again, maybe it's Saturn returning to go through the lesson one more time.

Namaste

Just some quick advice...

Don't go to Australia, John Howard is mini-GWB, a revolting human-being and we are having massive water problems - droughts and floods. And we actually voted for him as well - no fraud.
(ALL our media is owned by two people, one of whom is dear ol' Uncle Rupert - so not really fair.)
Tragic.

Don't invest in any currency, unless your George Soros - but, yes, silver/gold always a safe bet. If I had any money I'd invest in that.

Stock markets/currencies are all rigged more than the election on Tuesday.

I meant to note that those Uranian transits hit Kerry's natal chart in 2005.

In America only the black vote was absolutely unshakeable .. for this the IRS is now fighting to remove the traditional tax-exempt status for the NAACP.

I urge you to read about it.
http://www.naacp.org/

Let us stand with the very brave Julian Bond.. http://www.naacp.org/news/2004/2004-10-29.html

I am joining their group. Send for a membership- they deserve every Democrat's support. Get your membership card today.

Thank you, John Kerry
He's been unfairly maligned even by Democrats. But the man who almost beat Bush was a heroic candidate who weathered a brutal campaign on behalf of the American people.
- - - - - - - - - - - -
By Geraldine Sealey
Nov. 5, 2004 | Early on in the presidential campaign, my lefty friends told me they would probably vote for John Kerry, but with regret and gritted teeth. "My choices are 'Skull and Bones' George Bush or 'Skull and Bones' John Kerry," a friend sneered at me. John Kerry was "no Bill Clinton," other friends have sighed; Bubba was flawed, but he wasn't a drone, a bore and a stiff, like this guy. "ABB," or Anybody but Bush, was one of the campaign's persistent clichés. If John Kerry won this election, the sentiment was, he wouldn't have won, exactly -- because no one is really for John Kerry -- George Bush would have lost.

snip--
John Kerry was also up against Rove, whose strategy of focusing on "moral issues" like abortion and gay marriage and playing to Bush's evangelical base turned out to be prescient. Bill Clinton advised Kerry to neutralize the gay issue by backing the same-sex marriage bans that passed in 11 states on Tuesday. Kerry declined. He has stated public opposition to gay marriage and support for civil unions, but voted against the 1996 Defense of Marriage Act, calling it "legislative gay-bashing."

"I'm not going to ever do that," Kerry said of Clinton's advice, according to Newsweek. Kerry has heard quite a bit about the fact that he isn't Clinton. He's certainly not a comparable orator or as dazzling a presence, and that is understandably lamentable. Perhaps Kerry also was less calculating than Clinton -- and if he had been, shall we say, "slicker" on some things, it may have helped him. But it's nice to know that on this issue, at least, he wouldn't completely sell out his principles and, along with them, gay Americans.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2004/11/05/kerry/print.html

The IRS is after People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (my group) as well as Earth First too guys - saying they are terrorists, trying to remove their tax-exempt status for holding signs that say "Go Veg". I am SHOCKED that they are trying to do this to NAACP as well.

Canada is the best place to go inmy opinion. They think we are nuts for having that Chimp as President - they are much more progressive like Europe. But as for me - I will stay and fight.

It's okay KM - I am doom and gloom too, I just wonder if it's a possibility that Repubs will turn on each other because I do know that some Repubs think Bush is a nut job and are against his war.

Keep your chin up, Dave, we need you. That goes for everyone. We may have lost this battle but we may yet win the war. It's not like the struggle would be over even had all of the Democrats won. Now we've got time to really evaluate if, as Pallas 18 has been saying, the Democratic party is really our best option or if there need to be some more fundamental changes. Like it or not, all we've got now is time to go over what we believe in and mobilise from the ground up.

Sometimes no matter how sound your warnings are people are going to act self-destructively anyway. Hence, Black Wednesday. I'm actually rather amazed that we were able to do what we did considering the voting machines were rigged, the press is scared silly, the population is being played like a fiddle and the opposition party is in the same tax bracket as the enemy.

Remember also that if you look at the overall trends the popular vote swings back and forth between Republican and Democrat. We'll see after four more years just how many people are still happy with Republican rule.

Don't give up folks, we've only begun.

Namaste~
~D

I've had it with Kerry bashing. The man was PHENOMENAL! He inspired the Dems enough to have the most active campaign race I have ever seen. I had, for the first time ever, MoveOn members and Dem Party twice canvassing my neighborhood for Kerry. This had never happened in any election before. I liked Clinton, I really liked Gore, but I really really liked Kerry! He did have charisma, he was an eloquent speaker...okay I admit my gemini planets jived with his sag. Help me here, but the only thing the Chimp had going for him was his cancer childish barely able to speak hominess. I think people liked him because they felt sorry for how stupid he was.

Kerry was THE statesman our country needed. He is sophisticated as well - I truly admire someone who speaks multiple languages - he had an excellent grasp of the rest of the world thanks to his upbringing.

Agreed Nexxus!

JfK could really have turned things around - still could.

wv:

Robin Cook is a brilliant, wise and principled man who should be leading the Labour Party. He represents all that's good about my Party. The only member of the Cabinet to resign at the start of the war in Iraq. The ONLY credible leading light in the party at the moment.

Thank you for bringing the article & Mr. Cook to everybody's attention.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/10103931.htm?1c

One last post before I shut up:

Quotes from Stuie Wilde

"I saw a vision of Bush eating a cactus. I felt sorry for the cactus."

http://www.stuartwilde.com/Articles/SW_articles_bush_string.htm

Jase,

Don't shut up... don't go away. I too admire Robin Cook and remember the stance he took, his subsequent resignation from Blair's cabinet.

I have been as frustrated with the situation in UK as here. WHY do Brits keep saying they have no one to replace Blair? What about Robin Cook? I used to be under the illusion Brits were more clever by far than we... they could throw their rascals out... I emailed every MP in Labour Party before the runup to the invasion of Iraq... I still believe if they had stopped Blair, it would have made a huge impact in this country. Speak please.

Ooops. Sorry Pallas 18! Just one of those details that slipped my mind. February 9th 1981 - 7:45am - Dallas, TX.

Namaste,

It has occurred to me that maybe it's time to put an end to the Democratic Party and come up with a new party. I consider myself a Democrat. but only because I believe that is the best and most practically electable alternative. After the last 6 years worth of election results, I would say that the Democratic Party is not doing a good job. Maybe it's time for a new party to take its place.

If this is all we have I won't be voting.....

Would-be candidates preparing for 2008

- - - - - - - - - - - -
By Tom Raum

Nov. 4, 2004 | Washington -- Even as Democrats lick their wounds and Republicans bask in President Bush's second-term victory, would-be presidential candidates for 2008 already are maneuvering for position.

"You can be disappointed, but you cannot walk away. This fight has just begun," Democratic vice presidential nominee John Edwards told party loyalists in Boston early Wednesday in a speech that could qualify as the leadoff stump speech of the next presidential campaign.

Meanwhile, Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist of Tennessee was first out of the box among prospective GOP candidates with a "victory tour" of the South to showcase victorious Republican Senate candidates from the region.

Almost as soon as the curtain dropped on the 2004 presidential race, one was raised on the 2008 contest -- never mind that the midterm congressional elections of 2006 come first.

The next presidential cycle will be wide open on both sides.

Bush is limited to two terms. And while the incumbent's vice president is usually the favored next-up nominee, Vice President Dick Cheney, 63 and with a history of heart disease, has ruled out a run for president.

Sen. John Kerry could run again. But Democrat Al Gore, the 2000 nominee, found the comeback trail a difficult one.

Kerry's defeat and concession speech Wednesday cleared the way for 2008 runs by both Edwards, now a senator from North Carolina, and Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York.

Clinton, who could have been sidelined until 2012 with a Kerry-Edwards victory and re-election in 2008, is now front and center among would-be Democratic contenders. And her supporters were busy getting her name in circulation.

The former first lady has plenty of name recognition and a wide following. But some analysts suggest she could meet the same fate as Kerry -- as a liberal senator from a Northeastern state, despite the years she spent in Arkansas.

"She is a person who has a lot of people wanting her to run. She'll be a strong contender. But she also motivates the base of the opposition," said James Thurber, a political scientist at American University.

Thurber said it's important for Democrats to nominate a candidate who can win at least some Southern states -- as Lyndon Johnson, Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton had done, but which Kerry and Gore failed to accomplish.

Edwards might seem to have an advantage, being from North Carolina. The trial lawyer with a southern drawl drew high likability ratings on the campaign trail, both during the Democratic primaries and as Kerry's running mate.

But he was unable to bring his own state into the fold for Kerry.

Edwards' liabilities include lack of political and foreign policy experience. And his decision not to seek re-election to the Senate this year will make it hard for him to stay in the spotlight.

Doug Schoen, who was President Clinton's pollster, said it is too early "to talk personalities. The party's got to get repositioned first. It has to get back to the center with an aggressive assertion of traditional values."

Other Democrats who might seek the presidential nomination in four years include Sen. Evan Bayh of Indiana and Govs. Rod Blagojevich of Illinois and Tom Vilsack of Iowa. And, up and coming, perhaps for a presidential bid down the road, if not in 2008, is Illinois' Barack Obama, who will be the only black member of the Senate when he is sworn in January.

There's no shortage of potential Republican candidates, either.

Besides Frist, the lineup includes Sens. John McCain of Arizona, George Allen of Virginia, Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania and Chuck Hagel of Nebraska. Also, former New York Mayor Rudolph Giuliani and at least two governors -- Mitt Romney of Massachusetts and George Pataki of New York.

There also is Jeb Bush, although the Florida governor has said he won't try to follow his father and brother to the White House.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

I'm glad to know that I'm not the only one in this country who actually liked John Kerry, and still likes him. In fact, I liked him better than Clinton, and still do.

I like Kerry for precisely the reasons Nexxus stated, that when it came to choosing gay-baiting over principles, he chose principles.

I had been a fan of his ever since he was one of ONLY 14 SENATORS TO VOTE AGAINST the so-called Defense of Marriage Act. BTW, he was running for re-election that year, and he almost lost.

This time, he almost WON. In fact, if it wasn't for Ohio's Republican election officials ensuring that over 140,000 votes won't get counting, then Kerry DOES WIN.

Some may say that Kerry was charisma-challenged. I say I don't give a rat's ass about charisma; I wanted somebody to run the damn country--and somebody other than Dick Cheney.

It's been implied that there was some Skull and Bones plot to hand the election over to Bush. Well, that thought has crossed my mind, but I'm not sure I believe it. It's not like John Kerry has never taken a unpopular stand. His standing up for Viet Nam veterans, and for my rights, is why they crucified him in the first place. Kerry was up against a Republican tidal wave in Ohio, just like Al Gore was in Florida, only worse.

Kerry, you may know, "lost" by more votes that Kennedy won by NATIIONWIDE in 1960 (140,000 to 110,000). Even if Kerry actually had the votes in Ohio, I'm not sure if Ken Blackwell would allow Kerry to find them.

We may not ever have a fair election in this country ever again, but that's not John Kerry's fault. It's not Al Gore's fault. We were all asleep at the switch when this happened.

Right now, they're always one step ahead of us, and now, we're stuck trying to find a way to stop them--or at least slow them down--before they take away every right we have.

Joining in the crucifixion of John Kerry and the Democrats may make you feel better, but ultimately, it's not the answer. If the Democrats need backbone, we have to help them find it.

Dave

You are not too far off the track. Get rid of the
DLC and their faux GOP stance. Put Howard Dean
in as DNC Chairman. And elect someone in the Senate Majority Leader's position with ball. I
for one will not miss Daschel, I think he's a
loser. Too, we have to put up more attractive,
knowledgeable candidates. I mean that physically
and intellectually. Quit running away from the
word 'Liberal'...Liberals brought us the New Deal
and the LBJ program....Medicare, Social Security,
civil rights....the Republicans have been fighting
against Universal Health Care since 1947 with lies
and scare tactics. And most of all we have to
stop reelecting incumbents...Congressmen should
only be allowed to serve 8 years, Senators 12 years...it was never meant to be a lifetime occupation. Most importantly it is long past time
to remove 'the good ole boys' and their power. The
Congress should look like America. More American
Indians, Blacks, Latinos, Asians...much more
diversity. We also need to take away the right to
State Legislatures to divide the spoils every l0
years. There must be National standards to control
elections. We are in the 21 Century, not the 18th
Century. It is time for change....and dare I say
that Lawyers should not be allowed in government.
I may even go so far as an elected Supreme Court.
Just a little food for thought. Feel free to add
your own ideas. Remember at thousand mile journey
starts with one step (An old Chinese proverb).

I was a moveon precinct leader and feel rage about how the election turned out. I don't believe Bush won for a minute. They stole it again. But writing to congress (controlled by republicans) or our secretaries of state (also controlled by republicans here in Florida) or our legislatures or the media will get us nowhere because they are ALL GOING TO IGNORE US. I don't know what the answer is at this point. But I do know this, the rage and discontent that both sides of the coin feel is partly driven by the fact that our democracy, for 200 years, has relied on We the people electing our leaders, who then represent all of us. That's not happening anymore, so we no longer have a point in common, something to bind us. We are now the Divided States and People of America and I feel oppressed.

That was my post above...sorry

I also find it damn funny how TV and the Internet seem to take away all sense of historical perspective, so here's some for ya:

We've actually had one-party government before. From right after the Civil War up to the Depression, we had mostly Republicans in charge of all three branches of government. The Democrats had the South back then, but they didn't have the votes, and they were still seen as the people who seceded the Union. And the period from 1870-1930 was when Democratic power first grew in the cities, with the help of machine bosses and immigrants.

In all that time--60 years--there were only 2 Democratic presidents (Cleveland and Wilson), and only a few periods when Democrats controlled Congress. The two-party system, at the time, was called the "one-and-a-half party sytem," with the Democrats being the "half" party, every bit as disorganized as it is now. As Will Rogers said, "I belong to no organized party--I'm a Democrat." Only the Depression and the New Deal changed things: not the level of organization, so much as the balance of power.

Yes, things look pretty bleak now. We now seem to be bracing for a right-wing theocratic dictatorship, and I have read articles predicting the demise of the Democratic Party. However, if history is any indication, reports of its demise may be a little premature. Besides, there's still at least 48 per cent of us who didn't support this President, and don't now.

I posted this on a previous thread, and you all have seemed to ignore it, but I thought I needed to post it again.

Gina, no I saw it and it brought me comfort. I tend to look at past planetary aspects and historical correlations as well to put things into perspective. It always helps. Thank you.

Over on http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/
Josh Marshall notes:
November 05, 2004 -- 11:35 AM EST
Surveying the scene today, one thing that occurs to me is that President Bush is remaking the government into something that is looking more and more like a parliamentary democracy. I don't mean in every specific, of course; the key feature of the Bush presidency is an extremely powerful executive that to a great degree coopts and controls his own congressional majorities.

more....

This so does not seem to jive with the 2005 inaugural chart. We are still under a sun square neptune aspect this week. And is Saturn station yet? Uranus? I don't know what, but I am feeling something is going to happen, something....but I guess I could be dreaming as well.

Ok, after my last post, you all might still be completely disgusted with the Democrats for their lack of organization, spinelessness, and incompetence. It doesn't change the fact that we're up against people who are very cunning and know how to navigate the political system, and know just how to sell their product, and manipulate the public. In short, we are up against evil genius.

You all might want to leave the Democrats and join or form another party, or no party, but frankly, I don't think there are enough people ready to create a force that will effectively challenge the New Theocracy.

There are already plenty of political parties in the US. The Dems and the Repubs together ensured that no third party would ever be able to challenge them, let alone beat them. They did this long time ago, back in the early 20th Century, when the Socialists were growing by leaps and bounds.

Third parries are often catalysts for change, and the major parties sometimes co-opt their ideas. Ultimately, it's ideas for change that you'll get with a third party, but don't kid yourself in thinking you'll come to power that way. The Democrats will have to change from within. They still need your help, whether they know it or not.

If you have any stomach whatsoever to change them into your vision for the future, you can't do it by leaving. You have to do it by working for change, one bit at a time.

As Joe Hill said, "Don't mourn, organize." It was true in 1915, it's still true today.

Wonderful Elizabeth Edwards posted this on DU. I thought you all might like to read it:

From Elizabeth Edwards

Since I cannot start a thread (which I think is a good rule by the way), I have to hijack one -- at least briefly. I do want this thread to continue on, though, because the topic is so important. (Moderators can feel free to move this, of course.)

But I also had something I wanted to say to all of you. You know that I read DU and have for quite some time, long before any of you knew my name. I really appreciate the support you have given me on this latest hurdle and before. It means a lot to me and to John.

Now that I have more time, I will post some, too. But today I want to share something inspiring, part of a letter from Thomas Jefferson. This is from the new Bernstein biography of Jefferson. Jefferson sent the letter in 1798 after the passage of the Sedition Act:

"A little patience, and we shall see the reign of witches pass over, their spells dissolve, and the people, recovering their true sight, restore their government to its true principles. It is true that in the meantime we are suffering deeply in spirit, and incurring the horrors of a war and long oppressions of enormous public debt. If the game runs sometimes against us at home we must have patience till luck turns, and then we shall have an opportunity of winning back the principles we have lost, for this is a game where principles are at stake."

One last thing, to sum up my seemingly contradictory posts:

Uranus is still in Pisces, and Pluto is still in Sag.

The country doesn't seem to be ready for change right now, but it doesn't mean that change won't come.

Germany was under the Nazis for 12 years, South Africa was under apartheid for 40 years, and Russia was under Soviet Rule for 70. The change that we need will come. It will just be harder and take more time than we had hoped.

Please don't give up now. I need you.

"A little patience, and we shall see the reign of witches pass over, their spells dissolve, and the people, recovering their true sight, restore their government to its true principles. It is true that in the meantime we are suffering deeply in spirit, and incurring the horrors of a war and long oppressions of enormous public debt. If the game runs sometimes against us at home we must have patience till luck turns, and then we shall have an opportunity of winning back the principles we have lost, for this is a game where principles are at stake." --Thomas Jefferson

Man, that blows me away! Thank you,
Thomas Jefferson. And thank you, Elizabeth Edwards! What a brilliant woman she is!

I agree with Gina. Kerry has taken many rough roads in his life, and he IS a fighter. When he says "You watch - I've got your back" - I think he's up to sumpn. It may not change the fact that we have the Primate back (aw, Christ, I just can't take another four years of that stupid face) - but maybe Kerry will be the catalyst to an overhaul of the voting system. Maybe Lincoln Chaffee and other reasonable Rs will switch sides. I don't believe the baloney about Kerry being in on some scheme to hand it to Chimp. C'mon. After what he's done and after all the unpopular stances he's taken. He's a courageous guy. I don't think it's over yet.
And no, no, NO!! No Hillary Clinton. They will crucify her, and, AND - if this country isn't even ready for an INTELLIGENT president, no way are they ready for a woman. Edwards or (in my dreams) Henry Waxman, that little tiger. ; )

Gina,

No, I didn't ignore your post... sorry you felt we did. Fact is, the founding fathers fought against the notion of 'political parties'...

This country has never had true democracy, only a representational type... but even the Greeks had Democracy for only males, those who owned property. USA started out the same way... white males only... South Carolina didn't ratify the 19th amendment to Constitution allowing women to vote until 1973 --- pushed to by Eulalie Salley who fought for women's rights in 1920s forward. 'Course people of color, while GRANTED the right after the Civil War, were suppressed by various mechanisms invented by Southerns, the infamous Poll Tax being one.

I appreciate and admire John Forbes Kerry. But Democrats too often allow their 'principles' to overcome pragmatism. That battle may have lost the war... (as an article in Salon is suggesting today)... don't misunderstand, I believe he was entitled to his stand --- but perhaps he should have also stood against the invasion of Iraq... I know and have defended his position, I have read the resolution Congress gave dubya, and I have read dubya's inadequate answer to Congress. Yet I recall how I, without the primary sources the Congress was privvy to, could read the info on the internet and come to the conclusion on my own that the invasion was illegal and unnecessary... and I worked my butt off emailing everyone on the planet to tell them that... while the silence in Congress was so deafening the senior statesman Robert Byrd had to address that fact on his own, to an empty chamber. Yes, where were all the 'statemen' in the Democratic Party then...? Silence covered the halls of power.

And someone made a comment upthread about how Kerry motivated us all to work like never before. Pragmatically speaking, I wonder if dubya's mis - administration didn't do more to motivate. Shoot we were ABB until the party gave us a candidate... then like good little soldiers we lined up behind him... I remember asking a few posters on this board to add a spoonful of sugar to help that medicine go down when Dean was defeated.

No regrets here. I fought the good fight. Supported 'our man'... and we lost. But I'm awake and my eyes are wide open now. The top of the party has to go. The stranglehold on the state and county levels has to go. No more deals. We need more parties. We need to be more actively involved in the actual reconstruction of a new government... this one's broke, can't be fixed... it's infested with vermin.

If I'm too harsh, just read over me. I don't mean to be offensive to anyone here. I respect and love you all. Just look at it as the musings of an old woman who has dropped a few more veils. The underbelly of our collective is ugly indeed.

Namaste

Juan Cole has interesting article up

http://www.juancole.com/2004_11_01_juancole_archive.html#109962883115505790

Without a doubt this election is going to have the greatest most harmful consequences of any election in modern history. It is not just America, but it's the whole world that will end up as innocent recipients of the unfortunate consequences of this election. The malicious hateful face of the Republican Party will be on display everyday without any attempts to hide it. Let's be honest here, Bush did not try to hide what he was going to do if he got reelected. You can take it to the bank we will be seeing more wars, more tax cuts, and more conservative judges. Buckle up. It’s going to be a bumpy ride

Newsweek's take on the Kerry campaign...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6414892/site/newsweek/

Jo,
Too Harsh! Gosh I wish I had your way with words and your young heart and spirit. I don't know how old you are but however old you have the fighting spirit of a young lion and isn't that all that really counts. Your posts have given me so much to hang onto. You hold your head high and speak your mind in in the middle of the deep south! I'm in California and if you read the very last post on the last thread. . . Thats the best I can do. . .So Bless dear one. . .If they attempt to draft my son I'm calling you to help me kick'em those ugly demons back to the hell from where they came.

"If I'm too harsh, just read over me. I don't mean to be offensive to anyone here. I respect and love you all. Just look at it as the musings of an old woman who has dropped a few more veils. The underbelly of our collective is ugly indeed."

Where can I find Elizabeth Edward's comment on DU?

Jo is awesome.

I think what scares me most is that Bush represents "corporate America" and they conned simple minded voters into voting for the wealthy elite (too make the elite and corporations even richer). So these simple minded people actually dug their own puny graves. They were taken by the fear, patriotic blinding hate of "foriegners", fear of homosexuals and the choice to have an abortion (that's how they get the religous vote).

Sadly, will they still follow Bush (whom they think represents their religion and values) even after their kids are drafted to kill "the evil doers". They will still vote for Bush even after they lose their jobs - and though you may tell them the wealthy in this country are getting wealthier and the poor are getting poorer they will not hear you because Bush represents "their values". When these simple minded folks lose social security and are forced to live with their adult children in old age, they still will vote for Bush. When we get attacked by more terrorists because Bush has alienated the rest of the planet, they will still vote for Bush - again because he represents "their values".

THIS IS WHY THERE MUST BE A SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE.

Why is a politician allowed to even disclose his or her religion much lets site phrases from their bible when addressing the nation???

Why was the nasty catholic pope (closet homosexual woman hating child molesting) allowed to slam Kerry and support Bush?

Religion should be very personal and not a tool for getting votes.

Link for Elizabeth Edwards:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2604461

Now that Ouida May has returned (thanks Mr. Mike), I am pondering a couple of things I want to share with all of you, but they haven't quite jelled yet.

In the interim, would Sally or any of you other fine astrologers here take a look at the up-coming 11/9. Some insane Isamic group is claiming horrendous action against us (on our soil?) is imminent. Given the upcoming insane assault on Fallujah, following the restolection of Smirky, and with their penchant for playing around with numbers that are meaningful to them, I was just wondering. Many thanks.

Here is the front page of the Mirror.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/frontpages/

Still communing with Ouida May, but noticed several posts up above from Gina and would like to add my gratitude for her sharing with us and for the strength and resove she is adding to our little community here. Also, if you haven't already, Gina, do check DU. Bev Harris is swearing up and down that they are onto something and are moving fast. Dunno, but we can surely hope.

Starrynights,

Thank you for your kind words. Be assured that I will fight this coming draft... suggestions by other posters to protect our children now are right on the money.

I love your 'handle' --- evokes a vision every time I see it! And I have read your posts... you're not chopped liver, as they say! Kudos to you for ranting at your client... It's rude to talk over a TV to someone, and it's torture to have to listen the the ravings of Faux Noos while trying to make a living! Good for you...

Miss Pat C.,

You're awfully keen yourself! How you doing?

What do you say we all schedule another of our dates to meditate, prayer... and send light to each other and our planet, to help us through the stress of the results of the past few days? What say you Old Granny? Sunday night at 10:00? anybody else think it's a good idea? I could use some light... how 'bout you?

Namaste

Hey, I am happy as a clam;you know why? Yesterday
India beat the hell out of the WChampions Aussies
in an enthralling cricket Test Match in Mumbai(used to be called Bombay), even better than World
Series and Supe Bowl and Olympics combined. Talk
about the greatest sports ever invented - Cricket!

"And no, no, NO!! No Hillary Clinton. They will crucify her, and, AND - if this country isn't even ready for an INTELLIGENT president, no way are they ready for a woman. Edwards or (in my dreams) Henry Waxman, that little tiger. ; )"

I thank you all for paying attention to my posts, but I think I need to caution you about worrying about Hillary getting nominated in 2008.

Trust me--ANYBODY the Democrats nominate next time will be target for crucifixion. It doesn't matter WHO it is, whether it's Hillary, Edwards, Obama, Howard Dean, or Henry Waxman. If they have a D by their names, it won't matter who they are. If the Goopers have nothing on them, trust me, they'll find something. They'll even lie, just like they did about Kerry.

In my state, they just beat one of the most conservative Democrats in Congress, Mr. Blue Dog Democrat himself, Chris John. The ads called him "just another Washington liberal." They're going to do that to ALL Democrats, no matter how conservative they really are. Hell, in Louisiana, the Republicans even target each other for not being conservative enough.

So don't worry about who's up in 2008, even if it does turn out to be Hillary. Bill Clinton came out of nowhere in 1992. Who knows who might be waiting in the wings?

Jo, I sent the DU alert about BBV to you. Pls take a moment to let me know if you got it.

Gina,
Golden Age is just round the corner for all of us
starting in 2008 and will continue till 2020; after 2020 who knows what? Hopefully by 2020, the
unrefined, uncivilized red necks in the south,mid
west and country and rural usa will have either
got educated like the rest of us or would have shrunk to endangered species on this earth and will be on the verge of extinction like the dodos!

Well yes the IRS hit on me too yesterday!
What a sick disgrace!!! Shame on America!

My TOTAL income for '91-'99 $50,000. give or take a little! The problem? In '94, & '98, (out of Downeast Maine, to survive financially;) I earned a whole $10,000. each of those 2 years! Trying to hang onto my house here until things improved & also paying rent out there, there wasn't enough money to cover it all. I drove my diesel rabbit without brakes for at least 6 months in both of those years...........
( defensive driving, standard shift, & clutch work, diesel so slow you only need to take your foot off the accelerator.............)

My income was as complicated as a millionaire's in 1998, after being saved from homelessness, following the ice storm, ( in Portland) by The First Presb. church there who gave me $300. for rent; then taking 2 jobs bartending, with a w-2, freelancing for a tee shirt company, no deductables because the apt was so small, no deducetable work space, ( wrong!, 6 years & stiff penalties later I find out that was wrong; thank you very much IRS for telling me on April 15 1998!!!) AARP tax helpers were all busy that day...... so I asked for help in the IRS office! I got a "
snile" and a $500.00 tax bill I couldn't pay!
The big killer tho, was that I got 1 mural job! For a big publishing company that sent their forms in to the IRS. My :"self employment" tax was about 1/4 of the profit margin. The Meinike brake job had been $450., & had to be redone 2 years later for $180. up country here!

After 1999 & I could collect my Widows Pension from SS & return home, they put that tax bill in uncollectable. UNTIL YESTERDAY!
They levied my state property tax rebate!
Guess there is a bomb headed for Falluja with my name on it!
Sen. Collin's aid gave me the IRS. advocates number & I think it will work out, sort of with the IRS, IFI can earn $650. for my property tax by March so I don't lose the house ( my work space! ) But I spent 2 hours on it yesterday instead of doing work that could bring in income!
Funny 20 years ago without Gov intervention
I was able to work all day long, & make money
without distraction! ( And afford an accountant!)
There's some ugly right wing blogging on the Guardian site?????????
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections2004/glennreynolds/story/0,15140,1342516,00.html
after Reynolds piece go to the comments,

I don't want to live or work with these people I want succession! Bottom line they want Power & Conversion, we just want to "live & let live!"
Let them live in the swamps of Alabama ( Sorry Jo, I feel that you are as entrenched in your home as I am up here & I would love to be able to come down there for the winter months but..............................) desperate times call for desperate measures.
Pat QOP

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/05/opinion/05herbert.html?pagewanted=print&position=

Thank you M. sigh

I hanging in there Jo. I'm not enjoying sitting back and watching.

Shylurker,

YES! I got the post on DU. Thank you so much for looking after me... this is great news... really great...

In the interim, would Sally or any of you other fine astrologers here take a look at the up-coming 11/9. Some insane Isamic group is claiming horrendous action against us (on our soil?)

________________________________________

I hate to say it - but the USA deserves their rage. Unfortunately those of us who voted gainst the Chimp must take the hit with them.

Can you imagine being an Iraqi citizen (I'm sure you guys saw Farenhiet 911)..spellig?

...and having some other country bomb your home (for no apparent reason), blow your childrens limbs off, invade your home, take your sons to a jail run by US soldiers who then strip you of your clothes (and dignity), bag your head and force you to lay on the ground so thay can poke fun at your penis, sit on you, or force you to perform oral sex on another prisoner of "war"...ofcourse while taking fun photos of the whole thing.

If I were them, I'd hate Americans and I'd want to bomb the good ole USA.

Paul Krugman - No Surrender....

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/printer_110604Y.shtml

"Bush has a Mandate" no no

"Bush has a Man Date"

or when you hear someone say, "well, Bush has a mandate" you can simply say "Bush has a date with a man?"

i've watched about 30 seconds of tv since the tragedy. it was * talking about his spending 'political capitol'. he looked sick but what struck me was that the word 'hubris' came into my mind immediately. mr. george bush meet mr. hugh bris -- you to have something in common. ah, the greeks! where is pericles when we need him now?

The whole thing makes me so sick. Yup, Gina, they will try to crucify any Dem at this point, but unless there is some startling change in world psychology, I don't think a woman candidate would have a chance. But what the ! do I know?

Raj, on what do you base a Golden Age starting in 2008. We need to hear this!

Claudia D. thinks Chimp will fall a la Nixon over the next 2 years. That would be ideal, as they will be blamed for all the nightmares, and it will stain the entire party. But the voting machines - that's the thing we have to focus on, me thinks.

And I agree, Jo is the best. : )

Shylurker, Jo, all-
Just a thought---is there any way we could appeal the "election" results and somehow get the UN involved?
Maybe at least to help Bev Harris?

I know the very idea of that would bring on a shitstorm of Repub fury, but what else can we do? We're facing occupation by them for 4 more years..

bloodied but unbowed....TRUTH !!!!

Let the bozo spend all the political capital he wants, shrub;We simply don't CARE because we know
how little grey matter this nutty jerk has. But don't you touch OUR economic capital, BOZO!

Listen to Randi Rhodes on http://www.airamericaradio.com/ now. She is addressing the machines.

How 'bout a RECALL.

Raj

Yesterday a BBC announcer said it was such an
exciting game he was sitting on the edge of his
seat....for cricket?? Must have changed since I
last saw a game in the 50's in England.
However, there is a wonderful movie on the game
called 'Lagaan' I have the DVD but I think it is
also on TV this week or next. Good flick about
the Raj in 1893 - huge musical numbers too, see
www.lagaan.com, it is about 4 hours long. A feel
good movie, and a good cricket match....Bollywood
at it's best.

Donate a $1 to Bev Harris. Randi Rhodes kicks butt! Blackbox Voting needs money (so do we all!) but maybe Bev's investigation is a real hope for taking this administration down.

If Bev can prove election fraud AND if we all get behind it, maybe a real investigation would result in dethroning not only the shrub but perhaps some of the Repubs who fraudulently got into office????

You felt for sure that from an astrological perspective that Kerry would win. Perhaps he did. I want to know what sort of chart would be indicative of theft and treachery?

GOP already after Hillary....

http://www.nrsc.org/nrscweb/stop_hillary/article71.shtml

Now that the election is over expect more news of how the Bush administration is bankrupting the country on behalf of their friends.

_________________________________

I wonder if America is headed for another depression - as some astrologers have foreseen. Now that scares me. Could it be that the religous right is destined to "tear down America"? Is that what's in the stars?

The planetary patterns seem to show a repeat of what happened before the last US depression. And I repeat again - the Christian Right hate mongers won't care if the Bush Administration it to blame - as long as they get their religion in office.

So yes, Bush may fall - but we may bot be able to save our economy by then. I also wanted to mentiont that an excellent remote viewer (psychic) claims that America is headed into an 82 year depression (starting in 2002)and that America will fall as a world power before 2100.

I wonder if the Christian Right's election of Bushie is our collective debt to pay for the high amount HATE and IGNORANCE in this country. We are way behind Europe in social policy. Somewhere we as the USA created these simple god-fearing minds, dangerously blind simple minds.

Sad thing is, the elite wealthy few in corporate America (less than 1%) will easily survive the depression - it's the rest of us who will suffer.

****Great NY Times articles

Is it possible Sally, Nancy and the rest were right after all? I seem to remember someone saying they didn't see this as over until Nov 24th. I also think someone mentioned Neptune was very present for this election.

Look what is on Drudge right now!!!!

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20041105/D865R1DO0.html

Machine Error Gives Bush Extra Ohio Votes

COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) - An error with an electronic voting system gave President Bush 3,893 extra votes in suburban Columbus, elections officials said.

Franklin County's unofficial results had Bush receiving 4,258 votes to Democrat John Kerry's 260 votes in a precinct in Gahanna. Records show only 638 voters cast ballots in that precinct.

Bush actually received 365 votes in the precinct, Matthew Damschroder, director of the Franklin County Board of Elections, told The Columbus Dispatch.

More....

This gives me hope - because - if they can find the problem in one machine, maybe they can find the problems in all the machines?

Could Kerry have conceded to avoid looking like a "Sore/Loserman" but with his vow to make sure all votes are counted give us a hint that he is still fighting? Could Bush's Saturn hit him harder than a lost election would have, by having him get caught for a stolen election?

(I've stopped posting so much - but I've been lurking here somewhat because I like astrology so much. And I posted this because I couldn't wait to share the news with all of you!)

State and county election officials did not immediately respond to requests by The Associated Press for more details about the voting system and its vendor, and whether the error, if repeated elsewhere in Ohio, could have affected the outcome.

Some who may be running for Senate in 2006

http://www.angelfire.com/mo/zdawg/2006/senate.html

Sorry the post above is screwed up. The "State and county election officials ..." is part of the article above.

wv,

Movie Lagaan was a big hit in Bollywood, though I
prefer to watch the real cricket matches played
'live'.Anyway SAfrica is on the menu next month,
must be exciting too.

Pallas 18 and others who pointed it out are right--the machines voted in *ush. Like the Damn Yankees song "Whatever Lola Wants" whoever Diebold, ESS, & Sequoia want for Resident is what they (and we) get. We won't have a real election until all those machines are put on a paper leash.

Meanwhile many poor suckers did vote for *ush fair and square, because all they know is what they hear from the SCLM. The machines had only to skim off a percentage of the votes.

So our task, all along the Progressive Front, is to tackle these two problems: get the DNC and enough of the public to demand and receive paper trails on all voting machines--plus set up our own media apparatus--not just for the choir but for the poor sinners, too.

All the astrologers on this site have been wonderful! Nancy's timeline has been accurate throughout--including the big dive in *ush's popularity. There has never been any US president before who was the cause of a world-wide prayer vigil for his defeat. Holy smokes! How unpopular can you get?

Mike Luckovitch, the great political cartoonist who is the best thing to ever happen to the Atlanta Journal/Constitution, had a cartoon today of Kerry regarding a huge pile of darkness and trash labeled Iraq and thinking, "All this could have been mine."

Again, I think Kerry won except for the three votes that really counted--Diebold, ESS, & Sequoia.

One last thing--my wise mother-in-law used to say, "When you feel bad, pet yourself." Everybody on this board who worked physically, mentally, spiritually, or any other way for the good of our country is entitled to some self-indulgence. To every dear AW--go now, and do something nice for yourself before you take up the struggle again.

Read the article below about shady Ohio voting patterns and LET'S GET THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA (CNN, MSNBC, AND FOX) TO START DISCUSSING THIS!!!!

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=694&e=9&u=/ap/voting_problems

Lucy,
It is just a hunch, gut feelings I have, which most of the time come TRUE. Also all these go in cycles;so having gone through these TIN/Copper
ages with the shrub bozos, we can only get better
and hopefully Golden ages from 2008 onwards - very
distinct possibility, Lucy, keep those vibes HIGH
and I'm sure everything will work out for US!

Hey everyone--go to BLACKBOX VOTING and contribute so we can get a RECOUNT and get to the bottom of the voter fraud that took place in Ohio and who knows where else:

http://www.blackboxvoting.org/

Lawrence the Leo, I came to post the exact info.

Folks, donate even a dollar in honor of Nancy and the other astrologers here who said Kerry would win. In the final analysis, I think our wonderful Nancy was right. Folks, we were robbed. Let's channel our anger into getting to the truth of the votes and in GETTING RID OF BLACK BOX VOTING. No way ** won.

Donate to blackbox voting. If Bev Harris can get at the proof of this fraud, it is ONE HUGE step toward getting rid of the boxes for the future. -- And what about the "change" that someone here saw in the stars for the 11th? And then there were the predictions for the 24th (or thereabouts?) -- sorry I'm not taking the time to go look up the posts right now.

But we CAN get on this right now. It may be our only (or at least strongest) hope for getting rid of the boxes -- else we have really seen the last election of our democracy!

KM

Euphoria on Wall St. is history; next week onwards
NYSE markets will be starting a hangover, with
Dow falling below 5000/6000 in the next 6/12 month
because all is not ROSY as painted by shrub admin.
Value of dollar is also falling apart, so the bozo
is going to have the BIGGEST economic MESS in his
dirty hands!

just before on Randi Rhodes:

LET"S LET RALPH NADER DO HIS THING
Petition Ralph Nader
Fax 202.265.0092 and say 'Ralph, I am a Black Box Advocate. I want to challange the election results in NH". www.blackboxvoting.com

Your Name

this can get things started to investigate 34!!!! states.

Share this:

Send $1 or $5 to
Black Box Voting PO Box 25552 Seattle WA 98165

Bev Harris needs the help. The BBV representative was on Randi and they know how to audit the machines.

Gary, I am flattered you think I might have some answers. Right now I'm still reeling, but with the Bev Harris announcement at least we have something we can do immediately (send $1 - $5) while we are recovering. And, dammit, another blow we're going to have to absorb is the assault on Fallujah.

Gary, please read this if you haven't already. It helped me, at any rate.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2004/11/05/notes110504.DTL&nl=fix

Bhakti, is that the address they gave on the radio? I'm writin' a check, but the address on her web site is different - ? Did they give PO Box on Air America?

Shylurker,

I'm afraid *sh thinks he has license now to carpet bomb Fallujah... part of his political capital!

We need to help Bev Harris... she said she needs volunteers and she needs attorneys. Where are all the attorneys the DLC and Kerry campaign hired...? Gone? Well, we'll have to find replacements. I think the people have to pick up the ball.

Never mind, I'll use the address on the site.

Lucy,

The BlackBoxvoting.org site has their street address as:
330 sw 43rd St. Suite K
PMB 547
Renton, WA 98055.
I didn't see a mailing address with a PO Box mentioned.

For you card readers. I just got a spread that said "whatever you wished for will take about three months to get or complete". The reading was about catching and having everyone know what the *&+%F#@ Repugs have done and getting rid of them.

For those of you into dreams. Last night I dreamed I was in a fearfull place stomping on tiny dinosaurs -- and I got rid of all the meateaters before I left!

This article should grab your attention. Well
worth a read.....

http://207.44.245.159/article7216.htm

Randi Rhodes on Air America:

Fax Ralph Nader: 202-265-0092

Tell him your a BlackBox activist and want him to petition for an audit/recount in NH. I think today is the deadline.

----------

The Seattle address that Randi Rhodes on Air America just gave out for sending donations to Bev Harris FOIA action -

Bev Harris
PO Box 25552
Seattle, WA 98165

Info for emailing donation:

http://www.eservicescorp.com/form.aspx?fID=912

We only have a few more days to act on this thing...

Check it out! DU'ers are sending $$ to Bev Harris (a trucker called to find out how to send $1,000)- a poster at DU spoke to a representative who said they needed $50,000 today, and my bet is she'll get many times as much, albeit tomorrow.

WOW. I also am trying to fax Ralph Nader, but his line is busy (imagine!)

This feels good. Maybe there's some hope.

Blessings,
KM

I'm posting this Anonymously. And it's not because I want to hide, but because I believe there are some things best done wearing a Cloak of Anonymity.

With all that's happened these past few days, I've been searching my heart for something to do. Something that might make me feel better. Chocolate, liquor, mindless shopping, cheese and crackers, more chocolate ... nothing worked. But during this search, it occured to me that the one place I could almost always come to that would help me to see beyond the Now and help me move into what is at some point certain to be a Better Future was here, at AstroWorld.

So I donated $$ to AstroWorld. And I feel infinitely better. With that donation, I not only make it easier for Sally to run this site, I also get a chance to show my appreciation for Morgana, for Nancy, for all those wonderful Posters (even those I often disagree with) and to thank AW from the bottom of my heart for being a beacon during these Very Dark Days.

With all due respect, I urge you all to donate to AW. A dollar, five dollars, ten, twenty ... one hundred. Whatever you can do. It only takes a minute. And doing so will help to insure that this site will be here when we REALLY need it to keep hold of our sanity during the next four years and to offer us comfort when things get really, really bumpy.

Anon, wonderful idea.

Agreed...can't afford much but Astroworld is certainly a worthwhile investment!

Can I ask why people want a recount in NH? It went for Kerry. Why NH? Why not FLA?! What am I missing?

PS - yes, next check goes to Sally!

This is an interesting article.

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/110504_snap_out.shtml

snip--
This nation is so deeply divided that the words "civil war" stand for a possibility that is longer remote. Next year, even the next few months, will reveal these deep and irreconcilable divisions. The electoral process is dead. Only the fear that there is nothing to replace it except revolution and bloodshed will prevent people from seeing that there are different ways to fight; ways that should have been adopted four years ago. The rest of the world knows that physical force is not effective in this struggle and the rest of the world has something to teach us. We will look anew perhaps at the Second Amendment to the Constitution, but it is in what's left of the First that we will find our strength. The freedom of association includes within it the right to decide where and how to spend our money. - Michael C Ruppert

Lots of good stuff here....

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/

Help! Remember the snotty little e-mail I rec'd from a 30 something in my office and my forwarding of the article from Moscow Times by Chris Floyd. Well this is the response I received:

Seeing where this comes from "The Moscow Times" it doesn't surprise me at all.

Any ideas how I can respond, I'm all out of steam. I guess I shouldn't have sent it considering how "they" consider any articles or opinions from what is considered "commie" or anti-"mericun sources as suspect.

Lord, I could just smack the crack right out of his a**. The bad thing is, I have to go to work on Monday and face all these Neocon, Fundamantalist idiots and I'm in a very combative mood. SCREAM!

Patricia

Patricia, maybe you would be better off getting another job.

I can't. I'm too damn old.

Patricia

Ok. My Aries Moon has kicked in. I sent the little s**t the following:

http://www.rense.com/general59/kery.htm

hehehe....

I will not back down. I will NOT give in.

Patricia

Here you go, Pat:

The Republican Record Since Bush Stole the White House (the first time)

The following is an open letter to U.S. Sen. Phil Gramm of Texas that was emailed to his office, other politicians, the media, and others this week...

Dear U.S. Sen. Phil Gramm,

I am a Texan who received a recorded phone call this morning with your voice urging me to vote Republican on Nov. 5. You urged me to vote for the "great" Republican candidates who are running for U.S. Senate, the U.S. House of Representatives, and Texas and local offices.

Here is the "great" job Republicans like you and U.S. Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison and U.S. Rep. Dick Armey and Bush and Cheney and others have done since y’all - as we say in Texas - stole the White House in late 2000:

• Unemployment has risen from 4 percent to 6 percent, while under Democratic President Bill Clinton, unemployment went down from 7 percent to 4 percent.

• The poverty rate went up for the first time in eight years, from 11.3 percent in 2000 to 11.7 percent in 2001, according to federal government figures. The number of Americans living under the federal poverty level INCREASED by 1.3 million in 2001, while under President Clinton the number of impoverished Americans DECLINED by 7.7 million.

• The share of income going to the poorest fifth of households declined, for the first time in five years, from 3.6 percent in 2000 to a record-low 3.5 percent in 2001. The next-to-the-bottom [8.7 percent] and middle [14.6 percent] fifths of households also saw their pieces of the pie drop to all-time lows, dating to 1967, when such statistics were first recorded. The share going to the next-to-the-top [23 percent] fifth tied for an all-time low.

• The percentage of income going to the richest 20 percent of households went the opposite way, increasing from 49.8 percent in 2000 to a record-high 50.2 percent in 2001. The wealthiest Americans’ pie piece rises even more – to 55.6 percent - if you include capital gains, such as the windfall Bush received when his interest in the Texas Rangers baseball team was sold to campaign contributor Tom Hicks in 1994 [Bush reported this as capital gains, rather than income, to pay the least amount of taxes].

• The average amount by which Americans fell below the poverty level also hit a record of $2,707 [data goes to 1979], according to the Washington, D.C.-based Center on Budget and Policy Priorities. And experts don’t expect the trend to change soon.

• More than a net 1 million jobs have been lost since early 2001, while under President Clinton, more than a net 22 million jobs were gained.

• More than 2 million people were laid off in 2001 by companies like Enron and Worldcom that you Republicans support so much, and we are on target to reach more than another 2 million layoffs in 2002, according to the U.S. Labor Department. That is the most since the early 1980s, when another Republican administration controlled the White House.

• The percentage of MBA graduates in the top 30 U.S. business schools who have a job within three months of graduation declined from 97 percent in 2000 to 80 percent in 2002, according to Business Week.

• We now have returned to Republican-led budget deficits again, after getting good surpluses under President Clinton.

• We are in the midst of starting World War III with our irresponsible, go-it-alone invasion of Iraq. More than 25 countries – including those that aren’t favorable to us like Pakistan – already have nuclear weapons, and others like Iran and North Korea are much farther along in building these weapons of mass destruction than Iraq. Republicans have failed to link Hussein with the Sept. 11, 2001, acts of terrorism. Bush is on record as saying he’s going after Hussein for personal reasons because Hussein tried to kill his dad. Others say oil is a big factor since Iraq is the second-leading exporter of oil in the world, and U.S. companies want a bigger role in controlling that. And Bush and you and others are willing to sacrifice American, Iraqi, and others lives for the sake of personal, petty, putrid politics.

• Republicans have created much ill-will among our allies overseas by breaking nuclear treaties, not signing environmental pacts like the Kyoto Treaty, refusing to support an international court to resolve international disputes, and other arrogant, selfish decisions. How can we expect other countries to support us when we don’t support international issues they care about?

• The federal government is desecrating our national parks by putting oil wells in such places as Utah’s Arches Park.

• The ranks of people without health insurance swelled by about 2 million in 2001, to some 41 million, the largest one-year increase in nearly a decade, according to Covering the Uninsured, a partnership of national organizations that includes the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and the AFL-CIO. Republican politicians like Bush and Cheney have done NOTHING to address the increase in the uninsured.

• Republicans want to invest Social Security funds in the stock market, which has dropped significantly since Bush & Co. stole the White House.

• Crime increased across the country by 2 percent in 2001, according to the FBI, the first increase in more than a decade.

• Republicans care more about school children saying the Pledge of Allegiance than significantly increasing funding for education, especially higher education to lower tuition and fees, which will do much more to further our pledge of "liberty and justice for all" than simply saying that pledge.

• Republicans have cut many domestic programs, causing the ranks of the homeless to rise again.

• The number of protests and protesters against the federal government’s policies has increased dramatically in the past two years.

• Civil liberties are being eroded, as many Republicans push to create a police state.

• Republicans continue to blame Clinton for everything that goes wrong under them, making a mockery of their claim to "take responsibility."

• Little has been done to fix the electoral "problems" and fraud that occurred, mostly by the Republicans, in the 2000 election.

• Bush has already taken more days of vacation than probably any American president in history, including the entire month of August 2001 when he was told early that month of an impending terrorist attack and remained on vacation for the entire month, doing nothing about what he was told.

• And so on. And so on. And so on.

I can come up with more failures of the Republicans in the last two years, but this should do for now.

In your recording, you also thanked me for supporting you in the past 24 years and referred to Texas as "the greatest state in the greatest country in the history of the world." Besides wanting to know what criteria you use to define the greatest state and greatest country, I could come up with a list at least this long of reasons why Texas is not the greatest state [for instance, we rank among the highest rates of poverty and people without health insurance in the nation] and the U.S. is not the greatest country [for instance, numerous other countries have much fewer homeless people and people without health insurance]. I should add that I have NEVER voted for you or given you any money in the last 24 years, so I don’t know how you can say I supported you.

Again, I am extremely angry about your propaganda phone call this morning, and I hope you do not make any such calls to me in the future. For liberty and justice for all – not just hollowly mouthing the words, as so many Republicans do,

Jackson Thoreau
A Texan who votes and tells others to vote DEMOCRATIC

P.S. You ended your recording with "I love ya." You don’t love me. You love wealthy yahoos who fund your campaigns who you pay back using our tax money. I find that ending almost as offensive as you calling Republican politicians "great."

Jackson Thoreau is co-author of We Will Not Get Over It: Restoring a Legitimate White House. The 110,000-word electronic book.

The Original Source of this article is here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/articles/02/10/26_great.html

Just a random thought before I go light a fire and curl up with my spaniel:

Just a few minutes ago, I had the weirdest feeling come over me, and the words formed: "Everything is going to be alright."

I know I can tend to be a goofy optomist, (and I have Saturn on my moon right now - ?!) but this was a very strong feeling. Somebody said, about this election, that "the winner would be the loser, and the loser would be the winner." There's another way to look at that... Maybe, MAYBE the "winner" (Dufus) will end up the loser, and the Kerry will emerge the winner in the end!

It's something to meditate on before drifting off to sleep tonight.

I did see that donkey. ; )

Everything will be alright.

(((hugs)))) Lucy.

Humor break time! (I love this guy.)

While we await more from BBV.

http://www.busybusybusy.com/

E mail addresses for challenge of voter results from Bev Harris blackboxvoting.org

HERE'S THE EMAIL ADDRESS TO SEND TO

jeff@votenader.com

below is my email from Bev Harris, just received, timestamped 8:43pm (not sure about that timestamp)
_________________________________
This is an example message.

Please forward this request to Mr. Nader asking him to challenge the New
Hampshire election results. Thank you.

Respectfully,
your name
http://www.blackboxvoting.org activist

fax# 202.265.0092

or email jeff@votenader.com

202.265.4000 is the main number at Nader’s office if you know anyone who wants to
call or needs an address for snail mail.
____________________________________________________

Subj: Please Request Manual Recounts of Presidential Ballots

PLEASE FORWARD

Below is Nader's letter to New Hampshire requesting a recount. Also, is Nader's view on electronic voting without a paper trial. In addition, the Nader-Camejo campaign offered our campaign to poll watchers who wanted to be credentialed to be inside to monitor electronic voting. This is an issue of great concern to Ralph Nader. If the evidence supports it and challenges are possible he is considering challenges in other states as well. Please visit www.VoteNader.org in order to see what we stand for and help us pursue this issue.

Kevin

November 5, 2004

Via fax: 603-271-6316

To The Secretary of State of New Hampshire:

The Nader-Camejo campaign requests a hand recount of the ballots in the presidential election in New Hampshire. Numerous voting rights
activists have requested that we seek a recount of this vote.

We have received reports of irregularities in the vote reported on the AccuVote Diebold Machines in comparison to exit polls and trends in voting in New Hampshire. These irregularities favor President George W. Bush by 5% to 15% over what was expected. Problems in these electronic voting machines and optical scanners are being reported in machines in a variety of states.

We are requesting that the state undertake this recount or a statistically significant sample audit of these vote counts.

We would like to make sure every vote counts and is counted accurately.

Sincerely,

Ralph Nader

Paperless Electronic Voting

A bedrock of democracy is making sure that every vote counts. The counting of votes needs to be transparent so people can trust that their vote is counted as they cast it. Paperless electronic voting on touch screen machines does not provide confidence to ensure votes are counted the way voters intend. The software on which votes are counted is protected as a corporate trade secret and the software is so complex that if malicious code was embedded no analysis could discover it. Further, because there is no voter verified paper record, it is not possible to audit the electronic vote for accuracy, nor is it possible to conduct an independent recount. This Primary Day six million voters will be voting on paperless electronic voting machines. This is a grotesquely designed, over-complicated expensive system fraught with the potential for mistakes and undetected fraud.

On July 23, 2003 the Johns Hopkins Information Security Institute reviewed the electronic voting system in Maryland and found that it had security “far below even the most minimal security standards . . . .” Johns Hopkins computer security experts concluded: “If we do not change the process of designing our voting systems, we will have no confidence that our election results will reflect the will of the electorate.”

Computers are inherently subject to programming error, equipment malfunction, and malicious tampering. If we are to ensure fair and honest elections, and retain voter confidence in our democratic process, we need to ensure that there are no such questions. Therefore, it is crucial that any computerized voting system provide a voter-verifiable paper audit trail and that random audits of electronic votes be conducted on Election Day. Paperless electronic voting machines make it impossible to safeguard the integrity of our vote thereby threatening the very foundation of our democracy.

The seller of the machines, the Diebold Corporation, is a supplier of money to one of the major party candidates, George W. Bush. The CEO and top officers of Diebold are major contributors to the Bush campaign. This does not pass the smell test. Voters should report immediately any suspected malfunctions and deficiencies at voting precincts around the country to their Board of Elections. And voters should urge their legislators to require a voter verified paper ballot trail for random audits and independent recounts.

Just came across this at DU
.... love to all, Jeanie

Inspiration
by Clarissa Pinkola Estes

My friends, do not lose heart. We were made for these times. I have heard from so many recently who are deeply and properly bewildered. They are concerned about the state of affairs in our world right now. Ours is a time of almost daily astonishment and often righteous rage over the latest degradations of what matters most to civilized, visionary people.

You are right in your assessments. The lustre and hubris some have aspired to while endorsing acts so heinous against children, elders, everyday people, the poor, the unguarded, the helpless, is breathtaking. Yet, I urge you, ask you, gentle you, to please not spend your spirit dry by bewailing these difficult times. Especially do not lose hope. Most particularly because, the fact is that we were made for these times. Yes. For years, we have been learning, practicing, been in training for and just waiting to meet on this exact plain of engagement...

I grew up on the Great Lakes and recognize a seaworthy vessel when I see one. Regarding awakened souls, there have never been more able vessels in the waters than there are right now across the world. And they are fully provisioned and able to signal one another as never before in the history of humankind... Look out over the prow; there are millions of boats of righteous souls on the waters with you. Even though your veneers may shiver from every wave in this stormy roil, I assure you that the long timbers composing your prow and rudder come from a greater forest. That long-grained lumber is known to withstand storms, to hold together, to hold its own, and to advance, regardless.

In any dark time, there is a tendency to veer toward fainting over how much is wrong or unmended in the world. Do not focus on that. There is a tendency too to fall into being weakened by dwelling on what is outside your reach, by what cannot yet be. Do not focus there. That is spending the wind without raising the sails. We are needed, that is all we can know. And though we meet resistance, we more so will meet great souls who will hail us, love us and guide us, and we will know them when they appear. Didn't you say you were a believer? Didn't you say you pledged to listen to a voice greater?
Didn't you ask for grace? Don't you remember that to be in grace means to submit to the voice greater?...

Ours is not the task of fixing the entire world all at once, but of
stretching out to mend the part of the world that is within our reach. Any small, calm thing that one soul can do to help another soul, to assist some portion of this poor suffering world, will help immensely. It is not given to us to know which acts or by whom, will cause the critical mass to tip toward an enduring good. What is needed for dramatic change is an accumulation of acts, adding, adding to, adding more, continuing. We know that it does not take "everyone on Earth" to bring justice and peace, but only a small, determined group who will not give up during the first,second, or hundredth gale.

One of the most calming and powerful actions you can do to intervene in a stormy world is to stand up and show your soul. Soul on deck shines like gold in dark times. The light of the soul throws sparks, can send up flares, builds signal fires, causes proper matters to catch fire. To display the lantern of soul in shadowy times like these - to be fierce and to show mercy toward others, both, are acts of immense bravery and greatest necessity. Struggling souls catch light from other souls who are fully lit and willing to show it. If you would help to calm the tumult, this is one of the strongest things you can do.

There will always be times when you feel discouraged. I too have felt
despair many times in my life, but I do not keep a chair for it; I will not entertain it. It is not allowed to eat from my plate. The reason is this: In my uttermost bones I know something, as do you. It is that there can be no despair when you remember why you came to Earth, who you serve, and who sent you here. The good words we say and the good deeds we do are not ours: They are the words and deeds of the One who brought us here. In that spirit, I hope you will write this on your wall: When a great ship is in harbor and moored, it is safe, there can be no doubt. But that is not what great ships are built for.

This comes with much love and a prayer that you remember who you came from, and why you came to this beautiful, needful Earth.

Clarissa Pinkola Estes, Ph.D

Author of the best seller Women Who Run with the Wolves

~ D

I'm sorry there is some kind of misunderstanding of what I have said. In fact what I am saying about the Democratic party is exactly the opposite of what you have quoted me as saying:

"as Pallas 18 has been saying, the Democratic party is really our best option or if "

The Democratic Party in my opinion is dead. Self imploded with the help of Senator Kerry.

I have said I would never again support or work for the Democratic Party whether it calls itself the DNC or the DLC.

I have said it left us twisting in the wind, promised to fight for us and didn't.

Like thieves in the night, or succubuses, took our money and energy and ran.

Sorry you misunderstood somewhere along the way.

You can donate through Pay Pal to anyone with an e-mail address.
http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/ema/index-outside

or directly to their site.
http://www.eservicescorp.com/form.aspx?fID=912

and then there is this....

http://www.newbernsj.com/SiteProcessor.cfm?Template=/GlobalTemplates/Details.cfm&StoryID=18297&Section=Local

New Bern Sun Journal

A systems software glitch in Craven County's electronic voting equipment is being blamed for a vote miscount that, when corrected, changed the outcome of at least one race in Tuesday's election.

Then, in the rush to make right the miscalculation that swelled the number of votes for president here by 11,283 more votes than the total number cast, a human mistake further delayed accurate totals for the 40,534 who voted.

The glitch occurred Tuesday night as absentee ballot totals for one-stop early voting at three Craven County locations and ballots mailed-in were being entered, said Tiffiney Miller, Craven County Board of Elections director.

The Elections Systems and Software equipment had downloaded voting information from nine of the county's 26 precincts and as the absentee ballots were added, the precinct totals were added a second time. Precincts affected were Havelock East, Havelock West, River Bend, Cove City, Ernul, Fort Totten, Grover C. Fields, Glenburnie and West New Bern.

An override, like those occurring when one attempts to save a computer file that already exists, is supposed to prevent double counting, but did not function correctly, Miller said.

"I have redone every (personal electronic ballot) completely and am adding the absentees," she said early Thursday. "Every precinct was redone."

The second set of incorrect numbers came when the total for one of the batches of absentee ballots was not included in the first manual recount.

"That's why we have a week before the votes are official, so if we do find problems we can get them straight before the votes are certified," said Miller, who was in her office before 8 a.m. Thursday, hand-crunching the numbers retrieved from the voting machines.

New numbers put incumbent Commissioner Leon Staton in front of Republican challenger Tony Michalek for the Craven County Board of Commissioners District 5 seat. It does not appear that any other local races will be affected as a result of the malfunction, even with the results of about 1,000 provisional votes still to be entered Nov. 9.

Joined by her staff when the Craven County Administration Building opened, Miller already had been discussing the problem and remedies with Craven County Board of Elections Chairman Gloria Stanley, Electronic Systems and Software local representative Owen Andrews and North Carolina State Board of Elections Director Gary Bartlett.

More....

By engaging in the blame game we are forgetting that the message of this dawning age is to get over the inclination to have a "daddy" to fix everything for us. (president, god, priest, etc)

The Howard Dean rallying cry was "YOU have the power." And that means each one of us, to the best of our ability, has the responsibility to be a part of the solution rather than abdicating our responsibility to a higher level. We can continue to whine and play the blame game, or we can pick ourselves up and begin to focus on a cooperative, constructive, plan that would create a world as we would like to see it.
I see one preliminary step could be holding inclusive forums all over the country with the intent of coming up with summarized values that 'liberals' hold dear. And I don't mean in terms of pushbutton issues of, lets say pro/con gay marriage, abortion, etc. etc., but in broaderterms of the attitudes behind those choices - freedom to make choices for one's own body, mind and soul, while still adhering to the basic spiritual premise of do no harm to others, for example.
The democratic party has failed because its leadership and salesmen have acted too often without input from the 'people.'
Act smarter, cooperate, and find a way through this we must, for to continue to react as we have in the past will lengthen these times for all.
It will take less time to remodel the interior of this existing house rather than designing and building a completely new structure.

"The ideal set up by the Party was something huge, terrible, and glittering - a world of steel and concrete, of monstrous machines and terrifying weapons - a nation of warriors and fanatics, marching forward in perfect unity, all thinking the same thoughts and shouting the same slogans, perpetually working, fighting, triumphing, persecuting - three hundred million people all with the same face." (George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four)

Dear All,
Just finished reading some more posts. Copying the main information offered by many including Suzie Liberal and Lawrence the Lion. My representative in the House is Rush Holt of New Jersey who has been trying to secure paper ballots for over 4 years now. I am sending him and all my Senators the above information from the Associated Press and other publications. Also emailing Moveon.com I am also disgusted with the news media on TV which would like to sweep these irregularities under the rug by saying the exit polls are more frequented by Democratic voters ... the pollsters were too far away from the exits, and by the time anybody got polled the sample was mostly the loquacious Democrats..." What drivel! I also donated to BlackBox voting and will donate to this Website. I am also going to email every newspaper and TV media forum about the above info.
On another topic, the Solar Return of the guy in the White House was mentioned earlier yesterday. I took a look and placed three concentric charts for a good read: the first chart with it's ascendent is the Solar Return, the second, using the Solar Return's ascendant as a reference point is the natal chart, and the third chart, also using the solar return's ascendent as the reference point yield three Saturns in the 10th house. The Mars on the cusp on the descendent is opposing the progressed Mars,the Natal Chiron and Moon which all square the Solar Return MC. The three Saturns suggest the cessation of a job, or greater responsibility in the job, or a change of course within the job. The fact that it is the natal third house which rises to the ascendent suggest that those are the issues which are now coming to the fore. Bush's natal third house represents his ability to lie, to exaggerate the truth, to charm, and to think. It also suggests his brothers and sisters, his immediate environment, and since it is Libra, the law and personal one on one enemies. All of it is under fire by Mars on the cusp of the 7th in Aries (repeating a cardinal and legal battle 7th house issue suggested by the Libra on the ascendent). Further the Saturns of the Natal and the Solar Return are Squaring almost to a degree the Progressed Jupiter, Venus (also legal planets). And finally the Uranus of the Solar Return is in the 5th, opposing Natal Mars which appears in house 11 of the second concentric chart. The Progressed Sun (3rd chart out) is in conjunction to the natal Sun. As Isabelle said, transiting Uranus opposes Natal Mars and I add to that Progressed Sun. The 11th house is the Congress in mundane astrology. Hmmm. Putting it all together, a dangerous time for the Emporer (Mars to the Moon) with a possible legal horror story afoot (Libra, Venus, Jupiter to the ascendent being squared by all that Saturn Energy in the 10th. Hope I haven't confused you all, but there is one more thing to say...the 9th house is also in in play as Isabelle said...the courts, the judiciary and our overseas "friends." The theme is repeated again and again. There's more, but that's for later. May the force be with us.

Jeanie,

you said: "It will take less time to remodel the interior of this existing house rather than designing and building a completely new structure"

lovely thoughts and nicely presented. But I don't agree. When a house is completely riddled and eaten by termites or consumed by black rot and mold there is no saving it, it has to be knocked down and started afresh and anew.

Pluto is knocking down our termite infested structure. We are not enjoying it.

Hi Everyone!!! I am not sure where the idea started, but I never, ever said I was going to give up astrology. Nor did I ever say I would give up writing. I just was so numb for a few days I didn't know what to think at all!! I have been struggling to make sense of the astrology of it all.

It may be that Bush "won" under so much Saturn because this whole presidency will be a huge burden. He has a great deal of Saturn this time around, whereas last time he had a great deal of Neptune. It will be very "hard work". LOL!!

Secondly, November 8 to December 7, Saturn will be getting quite strong in Bush's chart after it retrogrades. I think he will be under a lot of strain. In fact, despite all the strutting, I think they must be starting to freak out a bit now with all the talk of fraud hitting cyberspace. I expect it to hit the media soon. Nader is suing New Hampshire for a recount. Three congressmen have asked the GAO for an investigation of voting "irregularities". And Bev Harris is going full steam ahead over at black box voting. I don't know if this will be enough to throw the bum out. I have my doubts on that at this point. But it will be getting more and more intense during this last phase of Pluto opposing US Mars through 11/25. If we are going to succeed, it will be now through the end of the month.

Look, everyone. In 2000 and again in 2004, the people voted for Dems.

The results proved in 2000 that Gore was the winner, and the exit polls on Tuesday clearly indicated that the will of the people was to remove the shrub from office. The exit polls were a correct reflection of the will of the people. The changed exit poll results (in the middle of the night) were the attempt of the corporate-sponsored PRAVDA press to cover the tracks of the election fix of 2004.

Everyone is reacting to this as if this was a natural, unmanipulated, event. It was not. The people had the intent to replace chimp. Their will was supplanted by something-someone else. How do we navigate these waters?

We have to fight like hell to get a national, consistent voting procedure that has a paper trail and is not run by corporations that are beholden to Bush. It should have open code for inspection by independent people. Or better yet, move to optical scanners. But we need a protected system. It may be that we can't throw Bush out with this voting fraud scandal but it may give us the leverage to get the system fixed if we stay with it.

In nearly every election since Nixon, liberalism has been vilified as a
flag-burning, treason-coddling, godless, upper-class affectation. This year
voters claimed to rank "values" as a more important issue than the economy
and even the war in Iraq. Through relentless propaganda Democrats/Liberals
have been painted as less virtual, less than spiritual, i.e. godless. Though
neither party has delivered much in the way of the demands of the masses (
better healthcare, education, etc.) at least the masses can identify easily
with a party that claims to be a believer of old time values and standards,
ergo your vote, if indeed the process was not seriously flawed in Ohio and
Florida.

Below the surface there is Deeper than anyone cares to admit, a hostile
white male that longs for their past dominance and privileged position. (The
civil war is still being fought in many parts of the country) America was
not founded so much on God as secular pluralism, tolerance, the right of the
individual to hold any belief without jeopardy. These people are frustrated
with not being able to keep MTV out of their homes, women rights to bear or
not children or who can or can not be married. Often contradictory and
cloaked in religious fundamentalism, if not fanaticism, It's a reaction
against mass culture that refuses to call into question the basic
institutions of corporate America that make mass culture what it is. It is a
revolution that plans to overthrow the aristocrats by cutting their taxes.

America is also still trying to exercise the shame of losing the war in
VietNam and embodied their hopes in a fool that shirked his opportunity to
distinguish himself on the field of valor and now seeks to redeem/acquire
warrior status if only through economic disadvantaged, less privileged
surrogates.

"No one ever went broke betting on the stupidity of the American public"....
Halliburton, SAIC, Boeing, Lockheed, Northrop, Qalcom, Lucent,

Beasley, way back in 2000 when Move On.Org was just a baby, I contributed money to elect Rush Holt....and I live in SSF, CA!

But like Pat, I have hit the skids in terms of money....too young to retire, my house gone under the first king george, no work....no IRAs left after the IRS got thru with me, and they still aren't thru with me....as Nexxus talked about above, I believe the greatest transfer of wealth in the history of the world will take place when this financial slide hits....we should all be an;gry.

I meant to say I contributed to Rush Holt through Move On, just to make it totally clear.

Whether true or not, (and I hope not), there are reports that Clinton told Kerry to let go of the "gay marriage" issue and Kerry refused. If true, it is very sad that Clinton said that. Bear with me a moment.

Words ('memes') we use are very important and those doing such research have shown that new concepts, new words lead to physical changes in the brain. This is very important. Introducing new words and making people comfortable with them can ultimately infuence policy.

During the Civil Rights struggle and in its aftermath, there were word changes. "Darkie" and "colored" (I know, I know, but for a gazillion years those were polite terms) were replaced by "Negro". It wasn't long before the community itself asserted "Black" as in "Black is beautiful." And shortly afterward, the now generally accepted "African-American" came from the community and has become commonly used.

In Vermont (and probably other places--I simply don't know) "civil union" is a term being used. I like that. Unfortunately , "marriage" is a word used in the law but then so are a lot of other words we don't even know any more (I especially like 'escheat', athough I haven't a clue what it means). And, actually, I believe that laws using offensive words for people of color got cleaned-up after we had turned things around in the '60s.

The state is mightily concerned with property and that is why civil unions are so important. A friend of mine died a couple of decades ago (AIDS) and left the bulk of his estate to his partner. The family was incensed, came in, got his will and everything overturned and took it all. That should never have happened and should not happen again. That is why we need legal protection for people who decide to "unite" as one and form a family (even if it is and remains a family of two).

To wrap this lengthy thing up (and I hope it's not too muddled), is there any way we can redo our speech and thinking so that "civil union" or some
such term (need help here) can be used in contradistinction to "marriage"? "Marriage" would be something the churches perform--a religious rite, ritual, conveyance, "blessing" or whatever.

Take the term "gay marriage" away from them. Put the onus of offering "gay marriage" on the churches. The fundies use the term to get their followers all riled up and to beat us to death (or at least submission, a la the supposed Clinton advisement).

Comments, please. (I have to backtrack and type in "l" or "L" since I lost my "L" key when I hit my keyboard so hard when msnbc, cnn, cspan or whatever waited f-o-r-e-v-e-r to show Kerry with some more electoral votes whereas the ones shown for Smirky just seemed to zip right by. Anyhoo, if an "l" or "L" is missing from the above harrangue, please excuse.)

I thank Ouida May for helping me with this. Awkwardness in expression is entirely my own.

Nancy, if the research going on right now pans out, Jebbie used the optical scanners to screw us in this one. The answer lies not so much in the machines themselves (whether the voting machines or the scanners), but in the control and oversight of them and their operation.

Two piles of crap that have been spoon-fed (or crammed down the throat of, if you prefer) the 'Mercun people is that private enterprise does it better and proprietary info is sacred (our votes, in conteradistinction, are not). We have now experienced what 'Mercuns seem to have to relearn every so many generations: "private enterprise" is very interested in buying politicians and will go all out to elect the jerks so they can get all the goodies (i.e., our tax money as well as the money we have to shell out to buy their products).

OK. Gotta back off now. Starting to be highly tempted to use BAD words. And me without an easy-to-access "l/L" key.

To Nancy: A request to you. Some time ago you wrote that there was only one chart that belonged to one person in this administration that frightened you to death. You didn't say who that might be. There were many requests for you to reveal the name but unless I missed it I don't think you ever said who it was.

So, maybe now, since we have to put up with this crew for another 4 years you might consider letting the cat out of the bag or if I missed it the first time, revealing the name again.

I would appreciate it...and if you don't mind, maybe also an explanation about what is so terrifying and distasteful to you about that person.

PLEASE!

Jebbie used more than the scanners.

Thousands of absentee ballots which people requested were never sent.

People going on vacation, shut ins, sick people, those who just wanted to vote on paper requested
absentee ballots.

Two in my household did.

Did you see them? Cause I didn't. And if you were dumb enough to tell the polls that you had requested an absentee ballot, they would give you a provisional ballot....and we all know what happens to the provisional ballots, don't we?

not counted.

For the largest turnout in American history of voters, this is just . . . .disgusting.

This site is addictive.
Dear Judi Gemini, I am truly sorry about your circumstances. I invite you the the armpit of the nation, but I think the air is bad and housing is ridiculous. Not as much sun either. And I thank you for supporting Congressman Rush Holt. I never knew much about MoveOn until I started getting agitated by Spawn of Satan's war rhetoric and his deliberate mangling of the facts. So I salute you on your savvy. I am also very aware of the sorrow which many of us have experienced these last 4 years. I can only exert white light in your direction.

I am like a child trying to find a way to convince myself that the bad guy will not win. So I look at the "future" hoping the great malific will act like a great malific on the chart of the spawn of satan. He seems to elude all the usual horrors bestowed upon the rest of us. I found myself muttering to the diety as I took my nightly stride, " I wish him public shame and humiliation. And I pray for him the consiousness to be AWARE of his public shame and humiliation. I wish all his lies exposed in black and white headlines and I pray that he sees that WE have seen his lies." I felt better. The gods were laughing. I hope the sin of hubris does not go unnoticed. I will pacify myself by rereading the tales of Agamemnon and Achilles. Just finished my first onslaught of emails. And now to bed. Maybe a brownie before bed.

Gee, this is interesting:

"
Diebold COO Wes Vance dies in private plane crash (DBD) By Michael Baron
Diebold (DBD) is saying Wes Vance, its chief operating officer, died in a tragic accident. Vance was piloting a plane that crashed near Columbus, Ohio, the company said."

It crashed near Columbus, OHIO!

Isn;t that a coincidence. Apparently every election a Diebold exec or voter connected exec dies in a plane crash.

"Dan Rocco -- April 1, 2002 -- ChoicePoint VP
He died on April 1, 2002, in a plane crash in Gainesville, Georgia. He was an executive vice president at ChoicePoint, the firm that gained infamy with their faulty "felons" list supplied to Katherine Harris during the 2000 election in Florida. As a result of this list, thousands of voters (mostly African-American voters) were wrongly identified as felons and purged from the rolls.

_______

hmmmm. now who could it be who believes in the motto " leave no witnesses"?

In my dream yesterday, the election turned in Kerry's favor and my excited words to my husband were "Kerry's In!!!" Then I woke up.

Should this not happen, I think that the country will be so down on Republicans by 2007 (remember the economic collapse predicted for 2006) that almost ANY Democrat, including Hillary, could cake walk into the presidency.

Pallas, you have been through a lot and I'm glad to see your fighting spirit is as strong as ever. I acknowledge, support and honor your feelings; same goes for everyone here. Let's at least stay open to the possibility that Kerry did the right thing. In 2000, the Dems demanded recounts in FL mainly due to poorly designed and spoiled ballots that were handled wrongly the first time. It was a huge screw up but not necessarily fraud. Greg Pallast's investigation came out many months later, describing the list purging of so-called felons. This time it is more subtle and it will take a little time to prove voter fraud. Better that Kerry should not be the one holding things up. This way he can go on to be effective wherever he is, and give 'um hell. I think he will.

"Advisers Urge Kerry to Flex Power in Senate and Party"

Still reeling from his loss to President Bush on Tuesday, Senator John Kerry is being urged by top advisers and friends to take a high-profile role as the Democratic Party grapples with issues like selecting its next chairman and shaping its identity and course.

Unlike Al Gore, who made a tortured exit from the public stage after his loss to Mr. Bush four years ago, Mr. Kerry has a Senate seat to return to and is under no pressure to disappear from view for the sake of national unity and the legitimacy of the presidency, his advisers say. They argue that his continuing presence in the Senate gives him a natural role in determining how Democrats deal with the White House.

"If President Bush indeed wants to earn the support of people who supported Kerry, then he'll probably have to deal with Kerry," said Mike McCurry, a senior adviser to the Kerry campaign. "The question for Kerry is in some ways the same as for Bush: Does the president want to lead by establishing some bipartisan consensus in the center, or does he want to govern from the ideological right?

"Kerry would be the person that could help him accomplish that, but if not, there will be a hunger for someone to stand up to Bush."

more…
http://nytimes.com/2004/11/06/politics/campaign/06kerry...

Judi Gemini -- 1984 -- brrrr-rrr -- chills!

Jeanie, reading "Women Who Run with Wolves" was a moment of awakening for me. Thanks for posting Clarissa Pinkola Estes' piece regarding the current "crisis" here. I wouldn't have thought to go looking for it, yet I found her writing extremely encouraging. Thanks again!

Blessings, KM

Grand Theft Election: Karl Rove's turd droppings all over this one

By Wayne Madsen
November 5, 2004

—Karl Rove, the political sorcerer who is called "Turd Blossom" by his political master, George W. Bush, has his nasty fingerprints all over the 2004 Election in a scam that can best be called "Grand Theft Election."

There was something very wrong in Ohio, which Bush claims he won handily. Not only had the head of computer voting machine maker Diebold and Ohio's Republican establishment of Governor Bob Taft and Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell conspired to suppress registration and voter turnout in heavily Democratic precincts, but the Ohio Secretary of State’s web site was only reporting results from nine counties as of 11:30 a.m. on November 3, just three hours before John Kerry conceded the election to Bush. Totaling the results from the nine counties (Fayette, Fairfield, Geauga, Jefferson, Portage, Mahoning, Trumbull, Richland, and Washington), John Kerry was clearly ahead. A tenth county, Columbiana, suspiciously showed up as "NO RESULTS."

MORE~ http://onlinejournal.com/evoting/110504Madsen/110504madsen.html

Shylurker, NZ has adopted the simple term of partner. Can mean committed homo or hetero relationship longer than 2 years - officially 'church married' or not. Good term imo.

For the poster asking about the scary person in the administration, from memory I think it was Sally that mentioned it, and it was Negroponte, who has now been made ambassador to Iraq.

On the question of optical scanners: while discussing electronic voting pros & cons with a friend in Hawaii (she was an election organizer) she told me it is possible to fool the optical scanners too - if someone were to put something like oil over one of the circles on a ballot, the machine can pick that up when reading that ballot, it can lodge on the scanner, and then proceeds to either mis-read or invalidate subsequent ballots.

Shylurker, NZ has adopted the simple term of partner. Can mean committed homo or hetero relationship longer than 2 years - officially 'church married' or not. Good term imo.

For the poster asking about the scary person in the administration, from memory I think it was Sally that mentioned it, and it was Negroponte, who has now been made ambassador to Iraq.

On the question of optical scanners: while discussing electronic voting pros & cons with a friend in Hawaii (she was an election organizer) she told me it is possible to fool the optical scanners too - if someone were to put something like oil over one of the circles on a ballot, the machine can pick that up when reading that ballot, it can lodge on the scanner, and then proceeds to either mis-read or invalidate subsequent ballots.

What the heck's going on with Maya's Daykeeper Journal? I haven't been able to get on that site for days! I miss it! Anyone in the know?

Tuesday evening I 'held my nose' and turned on the TV to watch the 'election returns' (a tradition I have observed my entire life). My gut told me it was a performance (told me that years ago). All the anchors were treading a thin line, making sure they 'protected' the incumbent. *sh never left the lead. No mention of exit polls etc. I have learned that the anchors are 'puppets' --- not gatherers of the 'news' --- they follow the lead of the owner of the network these days. They call a state when they're told to.

Mike Rivero at whatreallyhappened.com has been repeating and repeating the same mantra for almost four years: the 'selection of dubya' was illegal, therefore the entire government was illegal. The Constitution specifies that if the government is illegal, we are no longer obliged to obey it. Lemmings that we are, we have not only ignored that suggestion, we have 'cowered' before this juanta. They controlled the elections of 2002, which saw the use of some emachines without paper trails, and garnered more members for their juanta. Now comes 2004. We knew they would try to steal it; they did try, and they did steal. Cries are rising all over cyberspace "Fraud, Fraud" ... but some sites, like dKos, which is determined to remain 'respected' are talking about what to do to overcome our feelings of despair: which movies to watch, books to read. Hogwash!

Another upthread,a poster... several actually, remind us that the transiting planets are telling us to throw away the notion of a 'Big Daddy', a 'Savior' --- to pick up the mantle of leadership and throw it across our shoulders.

No one person is going to lead this demand for a recount, for an audit. We must all march (or is it 'Mosh' as Eminem raps?) --- scream at the top of our wallets.

Start emailing the White House. Scared? Think Ashcroft is coming for you? Well, I have been. NO MORE. Nothing could be worse than this: a manipulated fraud, intentionally created to achieve an objective - control --- massive control over our lives... thru this administration remaining in power.

We must resist. Resistance involves a multitude of avenues: boycotts, strikes, LTEs, emails, withholding of monies.

Factor this. The election was not 'close'... the votes against *sh were huge. He lost. A mandate? No, a theft of the ballot box. Gonna let him get away with it?

Keep up the efforts to expose the fraud through Blackboxvoting.org and begin the effort to publicize the 'glitches' miscounts, errors in the software --- FRAUD. Don't be afraid to say the word: shout it - 'FRAUD'

Cancel your cable service with a note that until the news is covered by the networks, until the people have a 'free' election, you won't be watching. Send same notice to the networks. Admonish them for the sham of the coverage since 9/11, up to and through the invasion of Iraq, the campaign for 2004, the vote for 2004 --- tell them you are turning them off (PBS also)... and boycott their sponsors. You don't need a list: write all the corporations, especially the big ones. Tell them you won't be watching sports, or soaps or faux reality... or Oprah or Dr. Phil... NADA --- until this media wakes to the more than half who voted against this administration, this pResident. Ralph Reed be hanged! He wouldn't know a 'value' if it slapped him in the face.

Cancel your subscription to the newspapers. Same deal... no truth and accuracy in reporting? Well, no money! We don't need their papers. Go to the internet (may not have that much longer!)

Withhold YOUR taxes, don't pay your income taxes this year. It's your money, an illegal government, war not in your name, and your children will be sent to die. for what?

Plan work strikes nationwide. Walk when you can. Use public transportation when you can. Consolidate your errands. Cut back on your heat. Use the fireplace, wear heavy sweater. Go to the library and read about the past... what others have done to resist. Protect yourself and your family. Store up on food and water and cut back on meals. We eat too much anyway.

In other words, FIGHT... the ballot box is not going to save us... John Kerry is not going to save us. WE have to save us... and this country.

Call your LOCAL Democratic Party MEMBERS, talk about what has happened and plan restructuring the system. Don't meet under the auspices of the Democratic Party, simply use its membership as a base. The people are with us, its the hierarchy that stinks. Use that membership to begin the fight. Call in others you know who have given up the system, expand your base. Use the precinct structure in your county, just forego the top level that leads to the state structure. Tell the State structure and the national structure they stink, adios.

Start building a REAL grassroots organization, tear down the media, the political organization, the government.

It won't change anything to PROVE the election was a FRAUD... imho. Dubya's not leaving the White House, they will call out the militia to stay.

Revolution is necessary. It doesn't have to involve guns or blood. But we must not lay down and let them roll over us. They seized our country in 2000... an administrative coup d'etat. We have patiently waited four years. We GOTV. They stole it. There's nothing else to wait for. If we don't take back our country now, we are lost. Democracy is dead in this country, unless we revive it. No one is coming to lead this. You must act yourself, follow your heart and head.

The above is my own humble opinion. My apologies to Sally for highjacking her site. I will be sending money... we must all send $$ to support this site and others that support our efforts.

Most resistance movements go underground. We will need to also.

This will be my last post of such a blatant political nature. This is a site for astrology not revolution.

Namaste

Thank you Jo for your immensely inspiring "political rant." The revolution starts now.

At DU, thread started by Bev Harris who is investigating the e-voting machines.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2605950

I was listening to McNeil-Lehrer report yesterday and was amazed at how easily the voting irregularities were dismissed and machine voting problems discounted as rumors circulated by dissafected Dems ("poor losers"). Instead, like an above poster, the issue was glossed over as more loquacious Dems willing to talk to exit poller, Repubs having been warned "not to talk to the press" or deliberately misinforming the poller by saying they had voted for Kerry instead of Bush... So much for those lunatics who claim public TV is a liberal bastion.

On another note, can you imagine the uproar and the fighting in the streets that would occur should the Repub side have lost to Kerry or if their man should be shown to the world to have regained office by artifice? I really think we would see a literally violent reaction. Dems tend to be so cerebral in reaction (Talk, write)... I see the gun-toters like those that showed up to protest their right to bear arms in Falls Church getting involved.

Further, say that now evangelism becomes part of the permanent play book. Many people can't stand to be part of the "losing" team and join the winners circle regardless of their inner propensities. Can you imagine the future gauntlet candidates would have to pass through?

Or-the pudits say that the country has been turning more and more conservative since '68. Any dem party turn toward the center to capture the vote simply exacerbates the movement toward conservatism. Still, with Gemini said to be so strong in the US chart, I don't see how multiple parties would ever work.

Just musing. BTW, thank you for all the links. This site is very educational that way.

Marines turn to God before the mayhem begins...

http://www.drudgereport.com/flash4.htm

Evidently "Thou Shalt not Kill" means buggar all

On DU they claim this page was scrubbed, I was
able to bring it up....

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/politics/content/news/epaper/2004/11/05/a29a_BROWVOTE_1105.html

And another thing . . .

Let us refrain from applying the term 'Christian' to those on the right who proclaim they are religious. They are frenzied, they resemble fascists, they are froth-mouthed, they are bigoted and they are not Christian. I say this because, to me, 'Christian' means those who believe in, adhere to and practice the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth which are most perfectly expressed in the Beatitudes. Hating people of color, wanting to revert to burn 'em at the stake actions for gays and doctors who perform abortions, and blah-blah-blah are clearly 180-degrees away from the teachings of Jesus.

Those who try and wrap themselves in Jay-sus are as repulsive as those who try and wrap themselves in the flag. They are bigots and should be reminded at every turn what Jesus of Nazareth actually taught and challenged to practice those teachings.

OK, dismantling the soapbox for the day. Thank you for your forbearance and indulgence.

I get the feeling that these people are going to be convicted of election tampering. It was too obvious... they didn't cover their tracks enough. They are getting like drunken romans in the temple. Our country has to make it the top priority. And immediately repair the system.
I think we should start meeting regularly in homes and such places for serious exchange of political ideas.

Laurie, I got onto daykeeper this am and was going to post that it was up again, only now it seems to be offline once more. Anyhow I'd copied this for some friends. It's a good read. I'd forgetten about this Jan's USA new moon thing. I am still wondering, what's it all mean? What direction these changes? How far the tipping point?

N O V E M B E R 2 0 0 4 F E A T U R E A R T I C L E

http://www.daykeeperjournal.com/feature.shtml
by Maya del Mar

As I write, we are told that there are only two states in the Union whose votes count—Ohio and Florida. Our votes, for instance, in this populous state of California, don’t count in a presidential election. The candidates don’t even visit here any more.

This is very wrong. And it is just one of the many, many serious problems which are now being exposed in our electoral system. Which is one of the serious problems regarding our "democracy." Which is one of the serious problems of a corporate-ruled world.

We have very deep, profound structural problems in the U.S., which will continue after the election, no matter whether Bush or Kerry wins. GW Bush is doing us the favor of bringing them out in all their awful clarity.

Pluto, acting in transit to the U.S. chart, and in the person of GW Bush, is exposing the dark underbelly of the beast. I have written about this many times, from many standpoints, during the last four years of Daykeeper. Now I want to briefly project ahead, and then look at where we are as a nation.

The near future brings an extraordinary level of activity.
A preview tells us that we are undergoing an enormous amount of change during the next 10 years. From 2008-2011, three of the five powerful outer planets will be traveling in cardinal signs, which are the initiators of action, as well as the dominant mode in the U.S. chart.

Most important are Pluto, with a 250-year cycle, which moves into Capricorn beginning in January 2008, and Uranus, with an 84-year cycle, which will move into Aries in November 2009. We have here challenges (Aries) to the establishment (Capricorn).

Pluto and Uranus together stand for freedom. They joined in the 60’s to plant the seeds of revolution. The establishment fought change, and has continued to fight change—when they haven’t co-opted it. This is usual. Stability wants to maintain itself.

But now we finally come to the first square of the Pluto-Uranus cycle, which is like first quarter moon. It’s when the urge to grow those seeds is so great that we are able to break through to manifest them into the collective, to begin to grow and tend those plants. Nothing can stop the ultimate success of this dynamic breakthrough.

The Pluto-Uranus square lasts incredibly long this century. It begins in July 2011, and finishes in April 2015. The universe is giving us enough time to do our work.

In the meantime, the nation is experiencing many transits, progressions, and eclipses which will help us prepare for major change.

Our current progressions are bringing us into a new dimension.
The U.S. was conceived in a cauldron of pioneering activity, and it is no wonder, then, that 6 of its 10 major planets are in cardinal signs. (The four cardinal signs—Aries, Cancer, Libra, and Capricorn—start the seasons.) The cardinal signs initiate action. In addition, the midheaven and IC are cardinal, and so are Chiron, Transpluto, and Juno. Added to this national need for action is Mars, the aggressive principle, in the seventh house, where it takes charge of our nation’s relationships.

With this 2004 election, the U.S. has begun a brand new progressed Sun experience. Its progressed Sun has just moved into Pisces, for the first time, and will stay here for 30 years. Pisces is a deep, mysterious, magical, mystical creative sign. It is naturally tuned into spirit. It is the last sign, preparing to move on, and ready to surrender excess baggage and go with the flow. It can be a challenging time. People with progressed Sun in Pisces often have to sacrifice part of their egos, and often rebel against that. But the priceless creativity of that time can far outweigh the value of ego.

Surrender, change, creativity, magic, and spirituality will definitely be part of our national experience for the next 30 years. For a nation run so heavily by the clock and by the balance sheet, this will not be easy. But it can be fun. This will be part of our national change, so better we surrender to an easing of the rules, and give the creative impulse room.

Of course an establishment which has become too rigid is threatened. Where it cannot bend, it will break. Or perhaps flood, as the great waters of Pisces wash over it. And they are beginning their flood, as people move into the streets now to protest the manner of voting—if not the outcome.

Progressed Mars is stationary at 19 Libra, ready to turn retrograde by 2006. Stationary planets act powerfully, and this means that Warrior Mars has been especially dominant for the last few years (no kidding!), and will continue to be dominant for the next few.

In the meantime, the November 13, 2004 Solar Eclipse is very close to the U.S. progressed Mars, and the April 8, 2005 Total Solar Eclipse will be almost exactly opposite it.

This means that the aggressive Mars energy of the U.S. is in for deep change during 2005. It may be preparing to begin to reverse course after it gets set on its retrograde path (which will last about 80 years).

The U.S. progressed Moon is in Cancer. It will conjunct the U.S. natal Sun in January 2005. We begin then a new 28-year cycle. This is like a new moon. We plant new seeds now for national expression. Cancer is a nurturing sign, and those who thwart the nurturing qualities of this nation deny its very nature.

Five months later, in June 2005, this progressed Cancer moon will have moved in position to square the U.S. progressed Mars. Moon brings strong emotions to our energy direction, and it will be hard to hold impulses in check. This comes on the heels of two Mars-oriented eclipses, which open Mars to vulnerability. Mars could get a real come-uppance then.

Moon and Mars progressions indicate conflict during 2005, at least through June.

Transiting planets bring reform and restructuring during 2005.
Pluto may not be the big guy, and he may not even be a planet, but when Pluto transits over any sensitive point, he packs a very big punch. For the last four years he’s been plowing through the first house of the nation’s identity, and we have been thrown for a loop.

Pluto is the reformer, the renovator, the recycler. But before he can redo a situation, he must destroy what is there. And there’s the rub. Who wants themselves, their lives, their loves, or their nation, destroyed?

The elimination is no fun, and we fight it. But then, once we’re clear, Pluto usually brings us something better than what we had before.

You might have guessed by now that the U.S. is undergoing a harsh Pluto transit. Pluto has a long cycle, 250 years, so we don’t experience Pluto touching us every day. But we know it when we do.

Pluto is now at 21 Sagittarius, and moving quickly (for Pluto) ahead. Guess what? The U.S. natal Mars (here we go again) is at 22 Gemini, right now looking Pluto in the face. Power and warrior energy. What happens?

Pluto strips everything down to its essence, warts and all. There is no hiding from Pluto. We see the naked aggressive impulses of much of the U.S. in full glare. Nothing graceful about it. And we see the military, under Rumsfeld, making every mistake in the book—and some that didn’t even exist.

Pluto exactly opposed the U.S. Mars beginning in January 2004. That was when NASA’S Spirit Rover landed on Mars! The U.S. Mars is in Gemini, and that little Spirit is quite a flitty Gemini creature. January was also when Ron Suskind’s book on Paul O’Neill, former Treasury Secretary under Bush, came out. O’Neill was shocked by Bush’s passivity in government, and revealed many things, among them that Bush was planning the Iraq invasion from the time that he took office.

Pluto will oppose Mars for the last time in September 2005, which begins a stressful autumn for the U.S. Just after the Pluto hit, transiting Mars itself turns retrograde for a couple of months.

All in all, Mars’ aggressive impulses will be undergoing a very big overhaul in 2005.

The U.S. Neptune, at 23 Virgo, is also undergoing revision at the merciless hands of Pluto.
Neptune in the U.S. 9th house refers to our propaganda, our media, and the myriad of things which we export abroad. Neptune provides an open channel, in this case to the wider world. Neptune works to unify.

Neptune and Mars square, or challenge, one another in the U.S. chart. They can get along well when Mars takes its lead from Neptune, and uses its abundant energy in a creative and idealistic manner. However, when Mars tries to take charge, and use Neptune’s magic touch for grubby, self-serving goals, it finds itself continually undercut and sabotaged. The chemicals and toxins (Neptunian) which we have used with a terrible recklessness are coming back to haunt us.

Basically, then, the U.S. needs to learn to direct its Mars energy in service to the world. That’s exactly what Neptune in Virgo in the ninth house is all about. When it does this—and it has in the past—it can do wonders. So we need to look at what we’re doing wrong—so we can eliminate it. This is Pluto’s big service. It comes along and cleans out the closet.

Transiting Pluto is now stressing not only Mars in the U.S. chart, but Neptune as well. Since they are square in the U.S. chart, whenever a transiting planet affects one, it will affect the other. Thus they must learn to work together. And this year is the golden opportunity of the nation to look at feedback, and figure out how we can improve this combination.

It is a unique opportunity. For Pluto is now traveling in the first, most personal house of the U.S. chart for the first time. For the first time we can become truly conscious of the underside of the nation. It’s natural to resist seeing what has been repressed, denied, and hidden for so long, but ultimately Pluto has a drive to break through, as in a volcanic eruption.

Transiting Pluto first squared the U.S. Neptune in March 2004, when the Abu Ghraib torture story broke through. This is a blatant example of a Mars-Neptune combination gone awry, and the story is not over. There is more to dig out, and to deal with.

Another blatant example of the destructive use of the Mars-Neptune combination are the poisons and toxins which we use in warfare—and with our soldiers.

Pluto squares Neptune again in December 2004, just as it is finishing its opposition to Mars. From the time Pluto turns direct in early September, through the end of 2004, much will be revealed.

When we include the U.S. progressed Neptune, Pluto will continue its square to Neptune through September 2007. During this entire time, we are learning about our mistakes—one might say, as "missionaries."

With our progressed Sun in Pisces, we can also be much better attuned to the underdog, the less fortunate, and the suffering of humankind.

What about the U.S. government?
Saturn speaks to governmental authority. The U.S. natal Saturn is in a very authoritative place indeed, the tenth house of taking charge. Saturn can sometimes be difficult there, because you think you must always be right, or someone will topple you from your throne. Self-righteousness can be a terrible handicap.

Saturn has a 30-year cycle. It entered Cancer, the most important sign for the U.S., in June 2003. It is now traveling through the U.S. 8th house of hidden things, and across the U.S. Mercury, which is the national consciousness, as well as in opposition to the U.S. Pluto, in Capricorn, in the 2nd house of resources.

Saturn is the bookkeeper. It is boundaries. It shows us where we must tend to business, and it may give us rewards when we do. It surely punishes us when we don’t. With Saturn, we face stone-cold reality. There is no escape. It is the Law.

Saturn now transiting the U.S. Mercury and Pluto is showing us what, at this time, is the reality of our consciousness of U.S. power. We are seeing that if we compare our perceptions to those of the rest of the world, they don’t hold up.

Again, what do we do about it? How do we re-form and re-shape our consciousness so that we can be more aware of what is happening?

The 2nd and the 8th are energy houses, and it is our thinking about energy that is most important now. Can we see that—for survival itself—we must change our mode of hogging and wasting energy? Can we figure out consistently sustainable ways of working with earth’s energy on a broad scale in this nation? Saturn asks us to do this—at a governmental level.

Saturn conjoined Mercury in September and opposes Pluto now, in November. It continues back and forth over this space through June 2005, with hits in January and in May.

Reshaping U.S. government is a major project during this 9-month period. It is essential that we, the people, give our input to this process.

The U.S. can be a world server.
With Saturn in Libra in the 10th house, the U.S. has the potential to eventually be a leader in a sustainable, just, and harmonious way of life.

Saturn returns to its home base in Libra in the U.S. chart during 2011. This return is occurring just as the first fervor of the Uranus revolutionary spirit impacts the nation, in July 2011. The turbulent times of 2011-2015 will be the energy on which Saturn begins its new cycle. We will have then a tremendous opportunity to change the mode of governing in the United States.

Soon after, at Winter Solstice 2020, Jupiter and Saturn—the two big guys in the sky who run earth life—will join for their 20-year conjunction in the first degree of Aquarius. This is an auspicious beginning for a new 800-year cycle.

Pluto will then be in Capricorn, about to return to its birth position in the U.S. chart, and preparing to embark on a new 250-year cycle of working with energy and resources.

Times have recently have felt very dark in the U.S. This is what Pluto does—takes us to the depths of the awfulness so that we are forced to see it. We face death. It is at that moment that we can begin our catharsis.

There is light ahead. The years we are experiencing right now, 2004-2005, are allowing us to see the old ugliness. And thereby to begin to forge new and better ways.

This rebuilding is a process which, however, takes time. We must have patience with the process, hold the light, and continue to work for the good.

It is heartening to remember that all of this change is occurring with progressed Sun in Pisces. Pisces can allow change, surrender, spiritual connection, and compassion as can no other sign. It is the last of the signs, and thus completes a 360-year cycle of progression. Purification is its essential work.

These years of 2004-2005 open up a very new chapter in U.S. history. We are laying the groundwork for the revolutionary times ahead of us, with a subsequent new start (airy and civilized) in history.

Numerology supports this timetable. E.g., 2005 is the last year of a 9-year cycle for the U.S. It’s time to finish things up.

In 2006, we start a new 9-year cycle, and we begin to do things in a different way. That year, remember, is when the U.S. progressed Mars for the first time becomes stationary retrograde, further indicating a new approach for the nation.

We have much spirit help in this process. Of all the signs, Pisces is the closest to spirit guides.

Fallluhja casualties expected to equal Viet Nam

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/printer_110704Z.shtml

Shylurker, I couldn't agree more, and I salute you for bringing this up. It has long been my contention that the rabid, hateful faction of the so-called "Christian" church IS the very anti-Christ they are always hunting down. "Anti" in Aramic/ancient Greek means "in place of" - not "against." In place of. They have placed themselves on par, and in some cases, even above Christ. This is the very warning in Revelation. This hit me like a ton of bricks one day. These very people who spew so much hatred in the name of God or Christ have placed these "values" IN PLACE OF the original tenets of peace, charity and forgiveness. They ARE the Anti-Christ.

I believe the people will save themselves and whats left of democracy by fighting now and not 'standing down'. That said, if this election should be proven fraudulent and reversed(in my dreams!) should Kerry be allowed to assume power after refusing to fight for justice for his supporters? Seriously, he didn't want it enough to fight for what was right in principle, which was a fair election, much less the presidency.

Fair? What could be more fair than this election? It wasn't even close, Bush has won more than enough electoral and popular votes as he really should have in 2000 also. It is time to put much of this partisan bickering behind. He is a great president, because he doesn't only tell people what they want to hear, he actually does much of what he sets as an agenda. He has much more good karma than everyone around here gives him credit for, and that is only part of the equation that has lead him to win. The problem is, you do NOT make dreams a reality by negativity. I don't care how much astrology said Kerry was going to win, there was so much negativity towards President Bush that even if Kerry had a real agenda, which he obviously did not, he still would NOT have won. I can't wait to see who the astrologers of this board are going to predict will win the 2008 elections. Until then, so long friends.

Thanks for the confirmation, Lucy. In the interests of a lot of things, I think we should keep The Beatitudes in front of these people at all times, refuse to ever use the term 'Christian' to describe them, and to challenge them every time they do use the term.

Starrynights, I'm getting smirk-fatigued now: black is white, Christian is hateful, votes aren't real, blah-blah-blah. Help!

Astrologers, is that mutual reception of Uranus and Neptune in play here? As in, one planet which represents (among other things) deception in a house ruled by a sign which represents (among other things) electronics, and the other planet which represents (among other things) electronics in a house ruled by a sign which represents (among other things) deception? If it materializes, could the current efforts to expose what certainly appears to be trickery be successful given the signs and portents? (And please correct all the things I've just said that are wrong. I'm no astrologer, just an appreciator of same.) Many thanks.

Did anybody else see the report on TruthOut that Ashcroft will retire?! At least THAT's something, although we don't know who (what) he'll be replaced with.

You know, I am no astrologer either, but I definitely had more insight into who was going to win this election than most astrologers. Not only was I fairly confident the President was going to win a second term, I also knew how bitter and spiteful people of opposite view were going to be. I also knew anything you had to say of him would contain at least one of these words "Deception", "Deceit", "Failure", "Demise", "Destruction". After everything said, and even after losing an election I can't imagine anyone on here will ever truly understand why astrology means nothing without spirituality. It just boggles my mind how people craving spirituality refuse to abandon the very traits and characteristics that are keeping them from it.

Lucy, being AG was hard work. Why, just look at all the convictions of "terrists" he achieved. Don't breathe a sigh of relief, though. Remember, the SCOTUS will have vacancies very soon.

Where in the US chart is the SCOTUS indicated? That should be very interesting.

Here's one for a good laugh:

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/110604J.shtml

Rumsfeld wants to restore that "golden boy" glow? THese people are lunatics.

Sally, would the Supreme Court reside in the 9th house of the US chart? If so, would be interesting to look at that, I agree. Can we say F_I_L_A_B_U_S_T_E_R?

Talk about using a filabuster in a way it was never intended, and most likely a very illegal way. I am not sure how effective that will be this time around. The people may become more vocal about the obstruction most democrats are causing during this time. Let this be one of my many predictions that will probably once again be right...

Ashcroft leaving? No doubt he wants to pursue a second career as a songwriter and singer of patriotic ballads!!! --- and the sad thing is that there are enough brainwashed idiots out there to actually make him a star! :-P

........sorry.........I'll be nice from how on.

I meant "from now on".

Well folks, the fact that Arlen Spector is getting pounded for even suggesting that Democrats would filibuster a judicial appointment with a litmus test on abortion signals that
here is the beginning of the official assault on Roe V. Wade....these supposedly Christian folk prefer to see women once again die in back alley abortions than to grant a woman the right to control her own reproduction. Having been thru an abortion in one of the mills in Tiajuana in 1967, I can assure you, it was very lucky that I lived to actually have one child. It was MY choice, of course, to sacrifice my own growth and needs and wants to care for and raise my daughter, which I am also so happy to have done, and I continue to reap the rewards of grandchildren. But would I MANDATE that others make that choice, at the risk of dying? NO, I would not...up is down, black is white, and I really appreciate the posting of the real meaning of "anti".....because it appears that Christians (the rabidly right wing Bush supporters) haven't a clue....as we change from the age of Pisces, which included the birth of Jesus, it appears that his original message has been truly transformed into its antithesis...

Did anyone see that Bush's Iraq advisor suddenly resigned? I wonder what happened there...he was supposed to be helping with the policy of elections in Iraq and he just resigned...and is going on vacation...hmmmmm....is this because of Falujha? War IS the most profitable profession....

"as we change from the age of Pisces, which included the birth of Jesus, it appears that his original message has been truly transformed into its antithesis..."

So deeply true. It is these very brainwashed fanatics who don't even realize that they are being used by the "money changers" that makes it all so incredibly pathetic.

The rabid, hateful vitriol of these people is obvious enough that you'd think even THEY would start to "hear themselves" and think, whoa, wait a minute. What makes me so different from the fundamentalist Muslims who want to KILL all the "infidels" when what the majority of my "church" is saying amounts to the VERY SAME THING. Kill all the Muslims.

It so aptly illustrates the lack of mental accuity of these people that they can't even see the correlation between themselves and the terrorists.

I keep coming back to a passage in the Bible where, at "the Judgement," Jesus tells some to be gone, and they beg, "But, Lord, did I not witness in your name?" and He says "Be gone, for ye knew me not."

Amen.

Lucy, Think about those Israelites dancing around the golden calf....

I've been having a funny feeling since Nov. 3 and it is encapsulated in the article linked below. It reminds me of Ron Suskind's NYT magazine article where he was in the Whitehouse speaking with a staffer who basically told him that they (the Bush administration) control reality. And it's true. They just stole another election. The sooner we stop trying to deal with this disaster based on old models of thinking and acting, the better. Jo has it right. This article sums it up quite neatly and my gut tells me it's right on the mark. I've been thinking this for over a year and a half - but was told by my family and friends that I was overreacting, seeing conspiracy behind every door. So, I decided to put my scepticism aside and worked on Kerry's campaign because it was a last shot to "test the system". I'm done. Now we need to change our entire approach to our life, spitirual concepts, society, our values (especially money - after all - nowadays it's only zeros on a screen - just like our votes - a mirage - it can all disappear in a minute), the world. Revamp everything, question everything, change everything. It's going to be really difficult.

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Commentary/110504Baker/11-05-04_Baker.pdf

hey joe,
can you spell 'stealing' elections - 2000 and ditto 2004, so don't crow too much; it is bad for
your throat and body.talke to you in 2008 after
the whipping of the con party!

I loved Mya del Mar's article.

I just wanted to mention that the transiting Pluto square the USA mars and neptune is much more dangerous in my interpretation. It creates a T-Square type nergy that equates to this:

Pluto = mars/neptune = the tendency to cause damage to others brutally or to suffer likewise...dissolution, death. (war in Iraq or an attck here soon while transit occurs)

failures caused through the absense of plans or energy (the Iraq "war" falling apart).

criminal misuse of power (reason for Iraq war).

self destroying forces and agents, poisons (a biological weapon attck on the US).

obstinacy, narrow mindedness (the dumb repubs who elected the chimp).

I would have to know what took place the last time this transit occured to know for sure as well as other planetary aspects and transits - but it's a basic mid-point interp of the energy.

Predictions by Sylvia Brown (very gifted psychic)
but she has been wrong. She pridicted Gore would win in 2000 and Bush would win in 2004. Overall her analysis of the "other side" is right on. I astral project so I know her desciptions of ghosts actually being astral projectors in many circumstances is very accurate.

SYLIA's PREDICTIONS:

Great earth changes will occur and germ warfare will be used before the world finds peace. But eventually from all of the bad comes good. The pendulum will swing back to humanity and love.

No world war is coming, but lots of civil disorder and small skirmishes. No nuclear holocaust.

Peace will last from 2050 until 2100, and then I see nothing beyond, which could mean "the end will come like a thief in the night."

Toward the end of things, the veil separating our world from The Other Side will thin, so much so that most people will see decease loved ones and speak with their Spirit Guides.

There will be many false prophets that rise up proclaiming to be Jesus on Earth, and try to lead people astray. We are already seeing this in the big rise of occultism.

.....(this last one really makes me think of the chimp Bushie - a lot of these people look at him like he's their jesus and the one who restores their religion to america... BLINDERS ARE ON!

http://www.sylvia.org/home/2000plus.cfm

From the DU....another poster said that this was a coordinated attack across the country....so if you hear any more, post it. HUBRIS is loose upon the land.

First-graders were told Kerry 'kills babies'
By STEVE URBON, Standard-Times senior correspondent

FAIRHAVEN -- A Rogers School music teacher sent first-graders home on Election Day to warn their parents against voting for pro-choice presidential candidate John Kerry because he "kills babies," according to a School Committee member.
The graphic political lesson so traumatized some of the first- and second-grade students at the Fairhaven school that it prompted a parental backlash and hasty meetings between parents and school officials.
The teacher, Rita Campoli, did not return a call at her New Bedford home seeking comment yesterday. But Fairhaven School Committee member Michael Gagne said he has been swamped with calls and e-mails from irate parents, as have school administrators.
The aunt of one first-grader called The Standard-Times to say that her niece had collapsed in tears at the idea that candidate Kerry was somehow responsible for the killing of babies in abortions. "She hardly has an idea of death. And now she has this vision of John Kerry killing babies."
Assistant Superintendent Ralph W. Tripp could not be reached for comment yesterday afternoon. But in an e-mail to Mr. Gagne and others, he explained that the teacher had used her classes to bring up abortion and euthanasia, both of which she opposes.

http://www.s-t.com/daily/11-04/11-05-04/a01lo839.htm

This is unbelievable -- right here in Mass!!! I hope these parents contact a good lawyer and sue the teacher and the district! If I had been one of those parents, I would be on the phone to the ACLU so fast it would make the entire town spin!
 

and another one: I'm A Teacher, and We've Got One of "Those" At My School

She has made the kids pray, pushed Mary Kay products on minors (she's a "Mary Kay Lady"), She has told them why she votes repug & then has them repeat back to her why this is, she has circulated a ban on gay marriage amndmt. petition here during school time, made kids watch a * state of disunion speech & made them write a summary (they are 5th graders), she has harrassed kids about what the bible says in regard to evolution, she is a mentor teacher & has kept her mentee after hours (against her will) telling her how Kerry is a baby-killer, she has used the school copier to copy church material and then distributes it to steff here, she has cornered administration about her political views (there was an incident an administrator told me about- that's how I know this), etc. etc. etc. The list goes on. For all of her time here, many have known she is a repug, and have done nothing. I knew she'd turn it up several notches this fall, and I was right. The administration ahs tried several things, and as I predicted, it did not deter her. Well, I have done something. I have contacted the ACLU, and we are one step away from having them come here and do an investigation. people here have been too passive.I also need to tell you that she has done these things in front of people, and they have given me permission to used them as witnesses. i don't know why the administration isn't doing their won, but I think I can do a better job anyway. I'll keep all you DUer's updated as this progresses.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=960572&mesg_id=962250&page=

This is from The Hill..Dick Morris on the exit polls and results...this is a must read, because Dick Morris may be a slimy character, but he is a SMART slimy character and he know the Repugs...

Likely this faux pas will assume its place among wartime stories alongside the mistaken calls on Florida’s vote for one side and then for the other in the 2000 election. But the inaccuracies of the media’s polling deserve more scrutiny and investigation.

Exit polls are almost never wrong. They eliminate the two major potential fallacies in survey research by correctly separating actual voters from those who pretend they will cast ballots but never do and by substituting actual observation for guesswork in judging the relative turnout of different parts of the state.http://www.thehill.com/morris/110404.aspx

good article on progressive activism...

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/printer_110704X.shtml

In the early 1980's, the New York providence of Jesuit priests organized a conference on nuclear weapons in New York which featured several Generals, "just war experts", and long time peace maker Daniel Berrigan. For a brief time, church leaders debated the "issue" of war and peace as the Catholic Bishops prepared to publish a "balanced" letter upholding the just war theory and nuclear deterrence while tolerating some unknown philosophy called "Gospel nonviolence". The generals gave their speeches and the Jesuits applauded. The just war theorists outlined the conditions in which Christians could dismiss the Sermon on the Mount and support war, even the use of nuclear weapons, and the Jesuits applauded. Then, Daniel Berrigan spoke: "The Christian response to imperial death-dealing is in effect a non-response. We refuse the term of argument. To weigh the value of lives would imply that military or paramilitary solutions had been grotesquely validated by Christians. There is NO cause, however noble, which justifies the taking of a single human life, much less millions of them". This is what Christianity is all about - saying "NO" to the crucifixion of humanity, and "Yes" to God's way of nonviolent love. Perhaps the "Uber-Christians" could learn something from that. This is from John Dear's forward to Daniel Berrigan's book called "Testimony" and it just spoke to me today so I had to post it here.

Saudi religious scholars support holy war...

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/international/AP-Saudi-Scholars-Iraq.html?pagewanted=print&position=

Reborn Dem

go for it! And get as much publicity as you can -

call the local papers - and by all means, ask the witnesses to sign an affidavit...youwrite up the story they told you....then make a line for them
to sign and print their name under....so that they don't back down

Give the school and the teachers publicity they will never forget ...

And send it to the The New Yorker, NYT , LA Times...etc....this is a brainwashing of children
that is horrendous...

If those two teachers get a good lesson and it makes the news those other crazy bastards wont do
the same to children in their charge....

And where did you hear things like ____ "eats children and drinks their blood "before...?

Now you know who you' and we are REALLY dealling with. skinhead bigots masquerading in Jesus' name.

AND BTW

Take that and stick it peeping-tom Joe.

I, as so many, have sought solace on your site to try to understand what has happened. I just read the article by Dick Morris .... and keeping in mind the surprise and shock of all of us with the result, the past predictions and the many readings showing Kerry as our future president, you should read the article written by Greg Palast on tompaine.com .......Kerry did win. It is now a matter of exposing the sabotage. Cheers.

I know someone who is a gifted intuitive. I asked her (1) if Bush won fairly, and (2) why the Universe let him win.

This is what she said:
1) The election was tainted but now so much by deliberate fraud as by the Republicans "buying" votes (my example is Bush telling right wing Christians & family values people he'd support the protection of marriage amendment if they got out the vote in the churches). What she might be seeing is that these "irregularities" were there but they are not what necessarily won Bush the election.

2) Why did Bush win? The country needs to be educated as to what is important and how to see the difference between pure manipulation and real issues. I know the Kerry-Edwards-Moore did their share of manipulation but it was petty stuff. Bush is the one who made his record look good when there is nothing good about it.

The second term would bring things much worse than the first. Serious economic problems even collapse. The economic problems would affect the very rich and the corporations as well as the very poor, more so than the "middle class" who have roofs over their heads.

And, the egg will finally crack open very dramatically and all the corruption and deals will come out, especially about the war. She felt there was a strong possibility Bush & Cheney would be removed and a new election called. The other possibilty will be that Bush is removed due to poor health or even death. (I hope this doesn't preclude the truth surfacing.)

This is what is needed for people to see reality. There is corruption and there is a false economy. If Kerry won, it would continue to be covered up and Kerry could be blamed for the country's problems.

She verified that Euros would be good if the U.S. economy fails. Gold & silver are always stable.

Finally, she said she felt that Edwards could have won and has a good chance of winning next time.

One more thing, she was told that our Mission was to educate people, that the education must not stop. I think it's tricky as many people don't want to be educated so I guess psychology must be used, gentleness, as well as knowing when to be quiet or walk away. They may want to force their "values" but we all know that doesn't work.

Hey Joe
Yawn....zzzzzzzzz.....

see ya

Sharon, my own spirit to spirit communication said Bush would eventually be impeached.

I am thinking that many of you may have gotten several messages from the Democratic party....One is from Terry McAuliffe inviting comment as to how the Democratic Party can improve itself....Terry says:
Tell us your thoughts.

http://www.democrats.org/feedback/

The other is from Kerry/Edwards forum:

The Kerry-Edwards Online Forum was developed and maintained by grassroots volunteers with the authorization of Kerry-Edwards 2004 Inc. We wish to thank everyone who participated in the discussions here.

Since members overwhelmingly expressed a desire to continue this discussion, the volunteer mods and admins have set up a new forum to continue the dialog. We invite all Kerry-Edwards Online Forum members to join the Common Ground-Common Sense Internet Town Meeting for Progressives, Moderates and Independents. The new forum can be found at:

CommonGroundCommonSense.org

Clinton did this after his defeat in Arkansas the first time....and it led to his success afterwards. Personally, I don't believe that Kerry lost....nor will I continue to beat myself up over it.

Some advice...pull your money from the big banks and put it into local banks and credit unions....shop at the community level, at thrifts, with local farmers markets, do as much as possible to keep the money in your community. As I have said in the past, Catherine Austin Fitts has been saying this for years...now others are too....do everything possible to stay off the main track.

And Sally says buy silver....right Sally?

got this from Robert Blaschke today
I made a mistaken prediction about a victory for Senator Kerry in the U.S. Presidential Election. Since Wednesday, the 3rd I have received scores of emails, some asking "what happened?", and a few suggesting that I change professions. I offer some post-election ruminations below, and a look ahead at a second term for President Bush in light of the 20 January 2005 Inauguration Chart, the USA progressed Sun ingress into Pisces on November 1st, Tecumseh's Curse, and the Jupiter-Saturn Grand Conjunction chart of 28 May 2000.

Best wishes,

Robert P Blaschke

3) The U.S. Presidential Election: A Second Term for President Bush

On Tuesday, November 2nd the people of the United States went to the polls to cast their votes for the presidency. After a long night of ballot counting the race boiled down to the electoral votes of one state, Ohio, to determine the victor. By early Wednesday morning it became clear that a thin lead in the Buckeye State was going to hold up for President Bush, and the hopes of the Democrats for the vote tally in the urban areas of Cleveland and Toledo to swing the overall count in the other direction was not to be. Senator Kerry made a concession phone call to the president at mid-morning, and then addressed the nation with the Moon applying to a conjunction with Saturn. A sober reality had sunk in, and it was all over.

Watching the map of the continental USA being filled in, state by state, with victories in red for the Republicans and wins in blue for the Democrats, one was struck by the similarities to the 2000 election. The three states on the West Coast, the upper Midwest states bordering the Great Lakes, and the northern half of the Eastern Seaboard states were in blue with Democratic victories. The entire remainder of the country - the South, the Plains, the Southwest and the Rocky Mountain states - all filled in with red as Republican victories were recorded. The country looked as divided as it could be by this election's outcome.

The day before, on November 1st, the U.S. progressed Sun ingressed into Pisces, beginning a new 30-year American era. There is now only one direction for the country to go - toward unity. How this will come to be is an open question. I was wrong in my prediction of a victory for Mr Kerry that I based on the Venus-Jupiter conjunction to his natal Midheaven, his progressed MC trine his natal North Node within 03' of arc, and my presumption that he was the "better fit" for the new Piscean American era. President Bush, with a stationary Saturn return at the time of the election, and a stationary Jupiter return at the time of the January 2005 Inauguration, was unbeatable by the Democrats. The transit diurnal Moon for the USA on November 2nd was in the degree of the USA progressed Jupiter, ruling the Republican Party.

To speculate about possible differences in a second Bush term it will be instructive to contrast the Inauguration Chart from January 2001 with the upcoming January 2005 chart. In the former, we find a tough-talking Mercury-Mars square in angular houses, precisely symbolizing the aggressive and belligerent rhetoric that has come out the the present administration. However, in the upcoming Inaugural Chart we find a 9th house Mercury-Venus conjunction that appears to symbolize a more conciliatory tone toward our international allies during the next four years. This conjunction is squared by Jupiter in the 6th house, which in Mundane Astrology rules the armed forces and public health. Squares to Jupiter are notorious for producing legal problems; we may see lawsuits over the shortages of flu vaccine and perhaps even international legal challenges to the legitimacy of the ongoing military occupation in Iraq.

Several subscribers have written me asking if I thought that any hidden forces may have been in play during the vote count, thus unfairly tipping the balance to the Republicans. Many estimable astrologers around the world, including some top Vedic astrologers in India, also had predicted a Kerry victory. Without trying to rationalize a wrong prediction by this astrologer, it is informative to review the last Jupiter-Saturn Grand Conjunction of 28 May 2000, as this is the relevant political chart for the 20-year cycle between 2000 and 2020, when the next Jupiter-Saturn conjunction falls in the sign of Aquarius. In May 2000, the conjunction fell in the 23rd degree of Taurus. From Sepharial's translation of La Volasfera, Taurus 23:

A king sits upon a throne; behind him stands a figure veiled in black.

It signifies one who will suffer misfortune in the height of his career and whose fall will be dangerous in proportion to the height he has attained. The native will be too apt to depend on his own powers and will essay feats which will be beyond his natural powers. Ambition will lead him into dangerous positions, and at a weak moment he will fall. Let this be taken as equally affecting his physical, moral, and social welfare. It is a degree of COLLAPSE.

One could read between the lines of Sepharial's analysis and deduce that President Bush is symbolized by the king upon the throne. The "figure veiled in black" appears to be the man running his election campaigns, Karl Rove, whose crude, lowball and mean spirited tactics to ruthlessly smear opposing candidates makes it hard to believe the sincerity of the so-called Christian morals claimed by this administration as their guiding principles. It is a testimony to the selfless party loyalty of Senator John McCain that allowed him to stand at the side of the president at campaign rallies in 2004 after the disgusting treatment that he received in South Carolina during the 2000 primaries.

If Tecumseh's Curse is still in effect, a historical pattern that has resulted in the death of American presidents in office who were elected at the Jupiter-Saturn conjunctions in the Earth element since William Henry Harrison in 1841, then Mr Bush, elected in 2000 at the last of the Grand Conjunctions in Earth, is thus still under its rays. Saturn will transit his natal Ascendant for the first of three times on 11 September 2005, a date with obvious implications. Transit Uranus will oppose Mr Bush's natal Mars three times on 14 April 2005, 18 August 2005 and 4 February 2006. This is an aspect containing the possibility of a sudden and violent attack against his person, or an accident or injury resulting in death. As Sepharial makes reference to the king's physical welfare in Taurus 23, it is clear that a collapse of Mr Bush's power and well being is possible.

One hopes that the country will move forward now, with unity replacing animosity and bitterness transmuting into forgiveness. A new era has begun in America, and with the U.S. progressed Sun in Pisces for the next thirty years, one can understand the underlying currents in the national psyche now moving toward a more religious and faith based way of life, with less emphasis on the secular humanism of the 30-year progressed Sun in Aquarius era just concluding. The Democratic Party will have to rebuild itself out of the ashes of this week's humiliating defeat. It is no longer politically viable for the academic and journalistic elites on both the East and West Coasts to view Middle America as a bastion of conservative simpletons with no intellectual sophistication. These good people of faith are in the majority now, and with the children of the liberal baby boomers turning out to be much more conservative and patriotic than their radical parents, this demographic trend looks to only increase over time.

Wherever I go I find somebody vocal about the fact he or she doesn't like Bush. Now, I'm italian and I live in Italy so I don't vote in the Usa elections.
Yet, every forum related to a topic that is not politics has its posts that are exquisitely politics, all saying that Bush should have not won.
None explains why he did, if not by saying that this happens because who vvoted him must be stupid stupid stupid.

I don't feel so, and I'm not even american.

This is not astrology.

If Bush won, the right approach is to see why, in this case astrologically, he won. Then, rather than judging whoever doesn't think or feel like us must be nearly a criminal, try finding out the _positive_ reasons because something happened, in this case why Bush won.

Refusing to see them and ackowledging their validity too, while all the same keeping a different point of view, would be adult.

But whining that what happened has happened because a mythological curse is above us is neither political nor astrological. Is only personal.

Refusing to see them
reads
Not refusing to see them

well english's not my native tongue.
ciao

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