Let me apologize for putting this up without editing it, but it was just so late I couldn't keep my eyes open long enough to edit. I will confess to being very tired of this election, the constant polls, the constant article about the evil "Bush" team, the Swift Boat Ads, the candidates spitting at each other everyday. More of our soldiers died in Iraq yesterday and the polls didn't blink, Usama sent us greetings and the polls didn't shift. No matter the corruption, lies, scandals, America doesn't shift off our polarization. But Dixville Notch has such a quaint sound, such a quiet gentle picturesque sound, I thought they would be a nice focus. But even the 30 people in Dixville Notch are split down the middle. It's gonna be a day.

Thanks Sally! Even tired you make wonderful sense! I especially have to agree with your statement:

"PS I predict Kerry will win and he will be an unwitting catalyst for something good for us all, something none of us can see right now, something he cannot see right now. I also believe people will be surprised how much they like him."

I have sensed on a psychic level for some time now that he is to fulfill a higher spiritual destiny for this country; much like Abraham Lincoln did.

Also, just wanted to say thanks for all the hand holding during this very turbulent cycle. Your words have been a beacon of light in the darkness that saved my sanity and let me know I wasn't alone! Bless you!

Posted this at the end of the last thread. And wonderful Sally is at her keyboard once again!! Such a talent.

My thoughts are with you all. Let love and peace radiate from all of you lightworkers facilitating voting this year. Ladies of the lamp, let your lights illuminate the gateway to the path of world healing.

Yes, thanks to all the fine astrologers who post on this site. I had never been particularly interested in political astrology until the recent turmoil in this country, but the excellent analysis that I have found at this site has given me a real itch for it.

May we all have a little less urgent need to consult it in the future!

Peace and love,

For those who worry about Dixville Notch: Don't Dixville Notch always votes a majority of Republicans no matter what the national final tally says. That chart may have been valid 20 years ago when only a handful of absentee ballots were cast before election day itself. But now, with early voting, you have to go to the first minute of the first day of the first state to do early voting to get a feel for how this election will turn out.

I get to be a "flusher" one of those persons who knocks on doors to find out who has and who has not already voted. If they haven't already voted, we urge them to. If they need transportation, we get someone to take them to the polls, whatever they need to get there.

Today's the day to make way for tomorrow..

Vote early and often.....

Don't know if this is right or not but according to ABC News, Dixville Notch voted 19 for GWB and 7 for Kerry. The election actually began in Hart's Location, NH and the split was 16 for GWB, 14 for Kerry and 1 for Nader.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=217777

The good doctor's medicine....dkos

http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,5053288-114515,00.html

A Day that will decide the fate of the world...

http://news.independent.co.uk/low_res/story.jsp?story=578458&host=3&dir=70

"THAT JOHN KERRY, HE'S NOT GOING TO BE PRESIDENT UNTIL THE RED SOX WIN THE WORLD SERIES!!!"

"WELL, HERE WE GO!"

Love and gratitude to you Sally for all that you give here and everwhere else. Blessings, peace, and grace to you.

Sally, thank you soooo much for the many ways you have enlightened us, mentored us, played with us, and always, as Kathleen posted, "held our hands."

Thanks to all the other astrolgers here who have also held our hands and really BEEN there with us during our trying political seasons. I love, respect and value all the astrologers here, and I make this site my first stop every morning. Okay, enough of the sappy stuff.

P.S. Sally, I too enjoyed how nicely the colors of OBL video went well together. Who would have thunk that OBL had an interior designer's instinct?

Thanks folks and thanks Teresa for the Dixville Notch update. I heard the 15, 15, and 1 on Air America last night, those numbers make more sense. Dixville Notch has always gone Republican for as long as I can remember.

One of my co-workers votes in Johnson County, KS and has a habit of wearing unusual ties. Today's tie featured caricatures of several past presidents. He was asked to cover it up while he was waiting in line to vote. He was also asked by an election official to move back a little because he was standing too close to the woman in front of him (his wife!!). Sigh.........

http://www.argusleader.com/news/Tuesdayarticle1.shtml

Judge orders GOP to halt poll tactics

Daschle sues to stop 'intimidation' of Indians

Republican poll workers in Lake Andes were intimidating Native American voters on Monday, a federal judge ruled early today.

Republicans may not write down license plate numbers or follow Native Americans from polling places during today's election, U.S. District Judge Lawrence Piersol ruled in a temporary restraining order.

The ruling comes after Democratic Sen. Tom Daschle sued his opponent, John Thune, and the GOP in federal court in Sioux Falls on Monday, asking Piersol to stop what Democrats say was intimidation of voters.

More...

Is Rehnquists's sudden absence from the Supreme Court part of a Rove plan? You can only be sure that Baker and Boyden Gray and Sean Rushton and every member of their Federalist Society (practicing attorneys or sitting in courtrooms) have been alerted and knows what is expected of them."

CONSIDER THIS POSSIBILITY RAISED ON AA THIS MORNING:

In a Supreme Court appeal which is decided 4-4, no ruling can be made.

It does not then go to congress for a final ruling.

The lower court decision stands- it is as if the Supreme Court did not exist.

Dear Sally! I too must add my thanks to you and all the other talented astrologers here who gave so much of themselves during this very dark period of time. Living here in a deep part of the south your words and predictions have been a light for us in the darkness and music to our souls. This site has been a lifesaver for us at times and we consider everyone here to be friends of our hearts and we would like to give our love and thanks to everyone here on this beautiful site as we all look towards a happier tomorrow.
On a little side note - went to vote today at 5 a.m. Since we are in the south most of the poll places are held in southern Baptist churches here which can be a bit intimidating at times. Already at this early hour there were 50 people on line, by time we got in at 7 a.m. and out again the line of voters waiting was wrapped around the church twice around - what made me smile is that a man in a flatbed truck rolled right up to the building and parked his truck in a no-parking zone and left it there .. and standing in the flatbed part was a 5 foot "KERRY FOR PRESIDENT" sign ... and not one person said a word against it being there! Amazing ... and hopeful! Hugs to everyone here .. and I hope we are celebrating by this time tomorrow!

Electoral College Math Could Cover a Blackboard

Winning formulas are complex, but both sides say it may boil down to six states in two groups.

CLEVELAND — Many different combinations of states could lift President Bush or Sen. John F. Kerry to the 270 electoral votes needed to win the White House.

But the one scenario some insiders on both sides consider the most likely features six states, split into groups of three.

These strategists and operatives agree that either candidate will be very tough to beat if he can win two of the three largest battlegrounds — Florida, Pennsylvania and Ohio — and two of the three Upper Midwest states still in play — Minnesota, Iowa and Wisconsin.

In 2000, Bush carried two of these states: Ohio and Florida. Democrat Al Gore won the other four. Today, all six appear within reach for either Bush or Kerry.

Fittingly for an election that has defied many expectations, the electoral math is complicated, with both sides looking at any number of combinations that get their candidate to 270 electoral votes. And political analysts talked about possible election day surprises in such states as Democrat-leaning Hawaii or GOP-tilting Colorado.

But figuring prominently in the calculations by both sides are the three major battleground states and the three Upper Midwest states.

If either candidate sweeps Florida, Ohio and Pennsylvania, with a combined 68 electoral votes, he is virtually certain to win, absent a big surprise elsewhere, such as Michigan moving to Bush. If no one takes all three, the three Upper Midwest states, with a combined 27 electoral votes, could decide the race — with Wisconsin the most hotly contested among them.

http://tinyurl.com/4exg8 LA Times

North Point Precinct, 5000 Voters, Reston, VA (Northern VA)

OH YEAH, THIS WILL BLOW YOUR MINDS.

I Poll Watched for the DEMS and voted this morning in North Point, Reston.

9:00 AM 20% of registered voters had voted
10:30 AM 30% of registered voters had voted
20% voted in advance meaning by 10:30AM 50%!!! of North Point voters voted.
1-1.5 hour waits and nobody is complaining.
The poll watch list of committed DEMS was tracking strong with lots of "signiticant others" showing up to vote from the same household as the committed voter.

VIRGIINIA ROCKS FOR KERRY!!!

Siobhan, that made my day!

I heard a few days ago that Virginia might actually be in play for Kerry as his numbers tightened. The following website is about the best for tracking today. Real Clear Politics

Mike those numbers before 10:30 this morning are incredible and exciting

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/

Mike I'm hoping Virginia will shock them all this time. I can hope. I want to see Tom Davis OUT!

I AM POSTING THIS FOR JE. SHE IS HAVING PROBLEMS POSTING ON THIS BOARD AND I WANTED TO GET HER PREDICTIONS UP FOR HER. HERE YOU GO JE.

I still can't post on your site. I am sure it has to do with using
WEBTV, about to send it back to Bill Gates and tell him where he can put
it. But forwarding my way out prediction that I posted at Noel's board.

I would say I have maybe a 1% chance of it being right. The first of it
is to explain to my non astrology friends what the Grand Cross eclispe
is all about.

When Kerry anounced Edwards. The yod was Sun14 Cancer 11th and Jupiter
14 Virgo in 2nd to Neptune at 14 Aq. 6th. The same place that Uranus was
in Grand eclispe.

Edwards Jupiter is 7 Gemini which is opposite eclispe Pluto. His natal
Venus conjunct eclisp Jupter. His Uranus is trian eclispe Mars.
Eclispe Jupiter is sq his nodes. All exact. Then his Sun is sextile
Eclispe by 1 degree. Then his Moon is 1 degree eclispe MH. And his
Jupiter is 2 degress MH and in the 10th.
His Mercury is inconjunct eclispe Pluto and 1 degree to Nadier. Not
easy but he leads us out of the tunnel Bush led us into.

My eclispe chart is for DC.

Many, many thanks to Captain Sally for all she does for us. Many, many thanks to all who join together here in the spirit of comraderie.

Let us hope Mr. Mike's experience in VA this am indicates a clear victory for freedom, openness and true compassion.

http://www.freep.com/news/latestnews/pm1062_20041102.htm

Poll workers called police officers to a church in Detroit about two hours after voting began today to keep order.

Four poll watchers said to be from the Republican Party were inside the church’s polling area, asking for names of people as they checked in to vote.

“They’re challenging some of the people as to whether or not their current registration is valid,” said Gene Claxton, head deacon of Unity Temple of the Apostolic Faith on Wyoming. The church is a voting site for four precincts.

Many thanks Sally, I will be silently chanting 3pm, 3pm all day.

Looking at the Neptune influence today makes me feel like I'm on drugs. All of us laboring under the illusion (myself included) that we will have a quick decision, an obvious decision can begin the process of accepting the fact that it's an illusion. The immature and out of control "Jr. High" tricks of people who are supposed to be our leaders is a stunner to me. Have we all been so blinded that we have actually believed America was "better' than other countries. The blatent dirty tricks in this election are overwhelming, I guess because it's in our face and we can count on Neptune stripping away our illusions about our Constitution, our leaders, our justice system.

Not only has government squandered the trust of our allies, they are squandering the faith Americans have in their country and their leaders. Kerry is going to have to turn his "Swift Boat" into the enemy over the next weeks. With all the Neptune influence in today's chart, including Neptune inconjunct the transiting Moon and transiting Sun coming to a square to Neptune, the lies, dirty tricks almost ensure a long battle without a clear cut outcome.

Today, transiting Pluto is in an exact (by degree and Minute) conjunction to GWB's South Node, if he manages to cheat his way back into the White House, he can count on reaping the whirlwind.

One more thing, look for violence to erupt someplace, or several places today as the "polling" thugs try to intimadate voters. (Saturn oppose US Pluto and T Mars square US Mercury)

When I said it would shift for Kerry around 3 EST, that could be an hour before or an hour after but it will shift when least expected.

Philadelphia fraud - DEBUNKED by Karma Mechanic

Tue Nov 2nd, 2004 at 16:03:55 GMT

(From the diaries. This is funny -- kos) I just heard Santorum on John Gambling's radio show. He says the Republicans will be going to court in order to impound the voting machines in Philadelphia that supposedly had votes in them before the polls opened. I assume the Republicans have resigned themselves to losing this election legally so they are going to try and steal it illegally - again. There you have it folks. Unless Kerry wins in a landslide tonight we are going to be in court for months.

Update:

Now the idiots on the radio have just updated the retarted Drudge report about the voting machines. It seems the machines have counters in the back of them that don't count the number of votes but how many times the voting machines have been used in an election. So there is no voter fraud in Philadelphia. What was that George Bush said about people who take action before they know the facts? Please people, vote out of office any and all republicans today.

http://karma-mechanic.dailykos.com/

Sally the antidote to the illlusion is the INTERNET. Never has it been so much a part of Democray.

Good observation PatC, however there is plenty of illusion going around on the internet, just depends who you read, and who they read. Illusion and mistakes abound everywhere over the next few weeks

Too true Sally. One way or the other, the isolation and tv news only is over. For better or worse I guess.

Sally,

Last night I decided, so I thought, that today I would not go to any websites, not listen to anything about the election, NOT turn on the tv and go to bed tonight without checking anywhere. I would then awaken to the news on Wed. morning that Kerry had won by a landslide.

But, curious Gemini that I am, I couldn't resist. I had to check in here and connect. And I'm so glad I did, or I would have missed your inspiring words.

What a beacon of light and hope this site is. It has enabled us to give voice to and receive sustenance for the longings in our hearts and souls. You have accepted us, you have put up with us, you have made us part of an extended family, whether we posted, or not, no matter what part of the country or the world we are from. Thank you for that.

When I think of John Kerry, I feel so hopeful. I think of the highest of the possibilities of what those Sagittarian energies can radiate out. Shooting arrows of truth, optimism, possibility and aspiring to the highest for all. There will be many difficult challenges, but I believe Kerry is a uniter and has an inner strength that we may have only had glimpses of. He can call on the highest in us and include us in the process. Americans want to get involved. We respond to being included.

Kerry/Edwards feels like new consciousness moving in - The Age of Aquarius.

Bush/Cheney feels like old consciousness moving out - The Piscean Age completing.

The outcome, whatever it is, will determine whether we are ready as a people to move into the new.

I SO PRAY THAT WE ARE!

Hello Sally and all. As per Dixville Notch/Hart's Location, NH - Dixville went 19-7, Hart's Location went 16-14. So the totals this year were B-35, K- 21, N-1. In 2000, it was B-38, G-18, N-1. This means that even in overwhelmingly Repub NH villages, Kerry picked up a 6 point swing out of 56 vote split, a 10% gain! It also shows Dems picked up 6% of total votes. If that gets extrapolated, it means a huge popular vote pickup from 2000 Repubs that are fed up with Dubya!

Been over at Atrios, and voter lines are way up all over the country, with very little ugliness so far. GOTV is working fantastically. I was 2nd in line in Westwood at 6:30 am, line was out the door when polls opened at 7, and about a hundred waiting by 7:15.

PRESIDENT KERRY

VICE PRESIDENT EDWARDS

Ok then Sally, I'll be chanting, "he will win". By the way, I will give GWB this, he is certainly turning out the vote, at least in my neighborhood, the upper west side of Manhattan. I have never seen such a crowd and these people are TICKED. Another thing I've never seen is, as people walk down the streets and see friends or neighbors, they are calling out, "Have you voted?"

Joshua Micah Marshall (talkingpointsmemo) says that internal Repug polls are trending toward Kerry. Don't use this info for placing any bets, but at least there's a positive note out there at this time.

There may come a day when the courage of men fails! But it is not THIS DAY!"

Got to my polling place at 6:30 a.m. and it already had a long line. Under the "I voted" sticker I wrote "for Kerry" ha!

Kerry in a landslide!!!

"And as we proceed, to mosh through this desert storm, in these closing statements, if they should argue, let us beg to differ, as we set aside our differences, and assemble our own army, to disarm this weapon of mass destruction that we call our president, for the present, and mosh for the future of our next generation, to speak and be heard..."

M. haven't voted yet, but some of my friends on the West Side and in Brooklyn are saying that they have never experienced such long lines. I'm waiting for the 3'oclock hour to vote.

Kerry in a landslide or a nose, I'll take it.

http://www.truthout.org/eblog.shtml

http://www.zogby.com/

Just wanted, too, to deeply thank Sally for this site, and all the astrologers who give us their time. Don't know how I'd have gotten through this without AW.

A few happy ditties: I live in a small town in NH, and at 8:00am, there were already lines ( never usually, at all), and a crowd of poll watchers at the ballot table where there have never been any before. Driving home after doing an errand in a nearby town, the intersection was MOBBED with young people holding Kerry signs, and more people than not were honking horns, hooting out their windows, laughing, and - God, it was great! Brought tears up, and deep-down joy-laughter.

Then, as I was driving home on a country road, I sent this out: "Please confirm that Kerry WILL win this." The very next thing I saw as I went past a little farm - a DONKEY!! : ) And at that exact same moment, the radio started playing, "Don't Stop Thinking About Tomorrow!" !!! I am not kidding. I laughed all the way home.

The Repugs will piss and moan for a while, but we WILL have Kerry in the end. Keep the faith.

1.5 hours till 3pm!!

I tried reading the results of the Harris poll and Zogby poll but it's all too confusing to me. Does anyone know what the final numbers are from the national polls and more specifically Florida, Ohio and Pennsylvania. My Republican boss is asking and it seems really important to him.

Teresa, try this one that Sally posted:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/

1.5 hr wait in Brooklyn Hts. My block had the longest line I'm proud to report.

The public school PTA, where we voted in the basement, served coffee and sweets Saw film and TV personalites!

Sally, once again, YOU ROCK and so does AW. Too bad we all can't meet in person for a victory party.

Thanks, Lucy. That was perfect.

Exit polls so far:

AZ: 45-55 for Chimp

CO: 48-51 for Chimp

LA: 42-57 Chimp

Ugh.

Now we’re talkin’!

MI: 51-48 KERRY

WI: 52-48 KERRY

PA: 60!!-40 KERRY

OH: 52-48 KERRY

FL: 51-48 KERRY!!!

MI: 51-47 KERRY

NM: 50-48 KERRY

MN: 58-40 KERRY!!

IA: 49-49 TIE

And in my home state, we’re kicking Bush’s ASS 57-41!!! : )

I went to RCP site, and some of those polls are skewed weird. It's not what I'm getting from other sources. Exit polls may not be totally reliable (except they are LV!) and early VNS shows K is up by 20 pts in PA, 18 in MN, 16 in NH, 9 in WI, and 2-4 pts in MI, WI, OH, FL, MI, and NM. It may be GOTV, but it sure seems like Repubs are not turning out in large numbers from what I've seen, and many are fed up with Dubya.

Hi Lucy - guess we saw the same data at the same time. Rock on!

Hi Robert - I know exit polls are not that accurate, but it DOES demonstrate the GOTV waves. Feels good. Feels great. I'm so happy NH is giving Chimp the boot!
Big sigh of relief. There's gonna be a hot time at the old tavern tonight!! : )

OK, here's one you can take to the poll lines with you: The USS Cole bombers ESCAPED.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/11/2/141947/251

Yea, Bush is keeping us safer.

Oops. Never mind - seems it's not a confirmed story. I'm just a little EDGY today. Going away now.

Sally, the shift for Kerry that you mentioned, has it occurred, is it occurring now? What were you looking at astrologically?

Something happened at 2:55PM. Market just took a dive on election result concerns. I'm sorry I have no details yet.

I am surely no expert on the Market; actually, I'm barely an observer. Don't you think all the oil pipline sabotage going on in Iraq right now might have something to do with it, rg?

To follow up on Pat C post re: Drudge and Phily machines, from the AP:

"In Philadelphia, GOP activists claimed voting machines already had thousands of votes recorded on them when the polls opened. But city officials countered that the activists misunderstood numbers on odometers that record every vote ever cast - not just those for this election."

Probably important given the spin already in motion re: Dems trying to "steal" the election (Ed G. on Larry King last night)

rg -

"3:03 ET Dow dips into negative territory NEW YORK (CBS) -- The Dow industrials ($INDU) dipped briefly into negative territory after a late-day sell-off erased earlier gains of as much as 79 points. The Dow was last up 6 points at 10,061, but hit a low of 10,047 a few minutes earlier. “The only thing I can see is that the Drudge Report shows the preliminary exit polls showing Kerry within striking distance,” said Jay Suskind, director of trading of Ryan, Beck & Co. Miller Tabak equity strategist Peter Boockvar said the fall was on nothing in particular, but also mentioned the Drudge Report showing that Kerry was running more competitively than initially thought."

And I might add making stuff up about Phily!

Nothing new going on re: Iraq so it is unlikely that would have caused an intraday drop. Also, crude oil is still under $50 a barrel. CBS Marketwatch is quoting a trader who is quoting Drudge that Kerry is in striking distance. I'm not 100% convinced that is the reason though. I wish I knew more but if I did...I'd be rich, right? ;-)

Thank you Robert. Posted before I read yours.

Actually I thought that the drop around 3PM EST might be an early indicator of the shift mentioned upthread.

Thanks for the further info, rg and Robert. If you read the Gore Vidal interview on buzzflash, he has some very interesting things to say about Kerry's ability to deal much more effectively with the threat looming out there re the national debt and China holding so many treasury notes (and contracting with IraN for oil and on and on). I'd appreciate your reactions, if you don't mind. (As I said, I know next to nothing about Wall Street, etc., but this thing with the national debt and China--I believe India, too--holding so many treasury notes is very interesting.)

Re the Dow:

We heard that another predictor of the presidential election that's supposed to be accurate is that the Dow must be higher at the close of day Nov. 2 than it was on Sept. 1. for the encumbent to win. Well, guess what? It's not!!! On Sept. 1, we think the Dow was 10,250 or 10,270 (can't remember which).

I would think it would plunge at the news of Kerry doing so well because a) There are probably more Republicans in the stock market; and b) a major change in leadership might lead to instability so that creates sell-offs. Just guesses on my part :-)

Sorry for that last thing. Nervous. Can't stop eating.

Here is stock market info that indicates the market is moving on a Kerry win:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000101&sid=aD8l2.oLGJYM&refer=japan

Lucy thanks, eating? Where's the chocolate? My poll was busy 9:30am pst (after the super commuters hit the road) but moved quickly. My husband was all set to pounce on anyone trying to bug voters, good thing we're not in Ohio or Florida. Of course none of that occured in our neck of the world, just a lot of folks seeing blue!

Hey Shyurker -

Sorry about the self-reference from Political Physics, but I believe this story I wrote October 22 gives you some info on what you want re: China, t-bills, and so forth.
http://politicalphysics.typepad.com/my_weblog/2004/10/signs_of_the_co.html

We really have an economic trainwreck coming, and it's important that Kerry be given a little breathing room to start correcting past probs before Repubs start blaming him for everything Dubya did. But at least correction starts today.

Turnout off the charts in heavy Dem and minority areas: http://www.dailykos.com/

Lucy--
Come on over to my house--I bake when I'm nervous. 4 doz cookies last night. LOL

Oh, wow, Robert! Thank you. I'll go read your article in just a few secs. In my great naivete, I think I was surprised that--with the approaching trainwreck (servicing the debt, China et al holding so many t-bills, national treasury being empty, unemployment going up, wages down, war without end (though that does fill some coffers quite handsomely) and the whole rest of the nightmare) that Wall Street might welcome a change.

OK Gotta to read. Will there be a pop quiz?

Again, thnx!

Early Exit Polling Shows Kerry Ahead in PA, OH, FL, MI, NM, MN, WI and NH. These are Preliminary, Approximate Figures. Keep Voting and Don't Count Your Eggs Until the Chickens Come Home to Roost.
http://www.buzzflash.com/alerts/04/11/ale04086.html

What You Should Know About Exit Polls. Don't Get Carried Away Just Yet. 11/2
http://www.mysterypollster.com/main/2004/11/exit_polls_what.html

Election Report from Tennessee, A BuzzFlash Reader Contribution
http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/archives.html

Piegrrrl, I'm off the baked goods and onto tequila. ; )

Some goodies from the Kos blog:

Thank you Kos (none / 0)
This site is a godsend.  For some true comic releif go to freerepublic.com - they are already starting to concede and vow to fight back.  Wah wah wah
by senatorKJL on Tue Nov 2nd, 2004 at 22:07:05 GMT

I saw that... (none / 0)
One of the posts was talking about staging some protest in San Francisco.  I just found that funny considering we'll probably go 98% Kerry and many of the street signs on Bush St. are defaced with apropos graffiti right now.

From KOS:

Zogby's called it!!!
Zogby has called it for Kerry by at least 311 to 227 EVs.  Iowa Electronic Market is trending heavily for Kerry too!!

Almost there!!!!
by markw on Tue Nov 2nd, 2004 at 22:21:21 GMT

The IEM trend is the best news yet, markw!

When the Dow tanked this afternoon, I bought calls. Notice how temperate and modulated the prognosticators have suddenly become on CNBC! LOL

Last night I saw a wonderful Frontline (on SF PBS station) which was written by Nick Lehman of the New Yorker....a 2 hour special comparing Kerry and Bush. The most interesting remark Nick made at the end was that as Bush gained confidence in himself, he became "more like himself"....that is, a RAGING CONSERVATIVE. No more mr. nice guy, no more working with the democrats to solve problems....he is intent on changing America to his vision. (doesn't look good for him, does it?)
This was followed by a second one hour piece from Oregon PBS station, from 1998. It was how the year 1968 represented the death of the progressive and liberal movement in America....and recounted the horrors from the assassinations of MLK (and subsequent riots around America) and RFK, to the police shootings of college protestors around the WORLD. It was a phenomonon (as Robert Bork said when interviewed, and what all the Repugs said: "spoiled Dr. Seuss kids protesting against their elders") that occurred everywhere, from the Democratic Convention in Chicago, from Paris , the Balkans, China and MEXICO (Oct 2, 1968 -The Day of Sorrows)....we all knew the other ones, but Mexico? Well, the ruling party there slaughtered 500 college students, spraying them from helicopters with AK47s....and so successfully covered it up that no one outside of the locals ever heard of it. But it did pass underground....remember the Black Power salute from the two American athletes? That was the acknowlegement of the solidarity with all who were slaughtered...the Olympic games came right after this massacre.

The point of this is that since 1968, and except for Tianamen Square, the youth of this country has not been moved to any kind of protest. It has been 36 years....1968 was the beginning of the Republican take over in America....is this the beginning of the change to a Progressive and more liberal America?

This is pretty funny....
From the Edge: So John Kerry and George Bush both want to be president. Obviously, they haven't
seen these deep thoughts and pearls of wisdom about the job.   

Comments by former Presidents........................and Gen. Sherman


The office of president is generally esteemed a very high and dignified position.................. I
think the public would not so regard it if they could observe the kind of people by whom I am often
annoyed.
James Polk

Four years of this kind of intellectual dissipation may cripple me for the remainer of my life................
Rutherford B. Hayes

As to the Presidency, the two happiest days of my life were those of my entrance upon the office
and my surrender of it......
Martin Van Buren

If forced to choose between the penitentiary and the White House for four years..........I would say the
penitentiary, Thank you.....
William Tecumseh Sherman

This job is nothing but a 20-ring circus ---- with a lot of bad actors................
Herbert Hoover

I have often thought that if there had been a good rap group around in those days I might have chosen
a career in music instead of politics......................
Richard Nixon

Sometimes I feel like the fire hydrant looking at a pack of dogs.......................
Bill Clinton

I am glad to be going. This is the lonesomest place in the world..............................
William Howard Taft as he left the White House for the last time.

The White House is a prison. I can't get away from the men who dog my footsteps. I am in jail.........
Warren G. Harding

Ha Ha! You are making up your cabinet. I in a light hearted way have spent the morning testing the
rifles for my African trip..........................................
Teddy Roosevelt in a note to his friend and successor, William Howard Taft

That was me, judi gemini....sorry...somehow when I post it erases my name...! It just did it again....

For all of the Kos fans, the SF Chronicle ran a piece on him today....Blogs alter political climate: (yeh!!!!)....I didn't realize Koz was from Berkeley.....http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/11/02/BAGCG9K4NS1.DTL

from the SF CHronicle: 4:32 pm:
Bush Carries IND, GA, KY
President wins GOP strongholds, while John Kerry takes Vermont.

Today I’m a strange combination of nervousness and also strangely giddy. I’m worried on one hand and on the other hand totally confident Kerry will win. Like so many of you, I’ve worked hard especially these last two weeks and now all that’s left is for John Kerry and John Edwards to sing a “victory song” with the Boss, of course. My husband is in Boston on business this week and will be attending the Kerry/Edwards victory rally/party. I am so jealous, but I have taken his being their today of all days as a very positive sign. “Kind’a like Lucy seeing the donkey”.

I don’t want to be too bitter/unforgiving but I want Kerry’s attorney general to prosecuted all those repugnant crooks to the full extent of the law. I want Bush and all his hateful hooligans driven back so far into their dark moldy caves they’ll have to pump daylight to them. Soon, very soon, Bushfatigued no more.

I'm visualizing a Blue nation tonight and thinking of you all.

For what it's worth, websites have become my primary news source and Astroworld is the one closest to my heart.

Namaste~
Dommael

For all the people out there worried about the coming financial picture:
Bin Laden Transcript Outlines Plan to Bankrupt U.S. Through War :

Al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden said he is trying to bankrupt the U.S. through its war on terror, a strategy he says felled the Soviet Union two decades ago in Afghanistan, according to a translation by al-Jazeera television of his full, videotaped statement.
http://207.44.245.159/article7202.htm

BTW...I really recommend reading the Daily Kos story in the SFChron....he really makes a huge point about the importance of blogs....

Dommael, my younger brother! Hello!!!

Bushfatigued we're going to have to get you a new name. What about Sunshine? And how our hearts do ache to have tomorrow so bright we're gonna all be wearin' shades. And big smiles.

Hey Shylurker!!! Sorry I've been AWOL lately - new job has been keeping me busy!
:-)
~D

Bushfatigued, my feelings are so similar.

Also, for a new handle, how about KerryKomfort.

;)

bushfatigued....how about KerryJolt as a new name? sort of sounds like a new caffeinated cola!

Yep, All suggestions are welcome!
Coming up with a new name is of utmost important. I don’t believe I could withstand another 4 years of Bush and his gang. If that turns out to be the case (God forbid) I’m afraid my Bushfatigue might be terminal. So, tonight I’ll not watch one minute of television. I’ve got a good French movie, my three little crazy dogs and a big (maybe a bottle) glass of wine. Of course one problem. . . to my head in the sand approach. . . is I do have the computer/Internet(s) and I should even stopping checking around there too. . . . And then I keep watching Emiem's video, I just can’t seem to stop myself! And I can't seem to play the movie either because my French is not good enough to not read the subtitles most of the time. . .So how can I keep fiddling with the computer and watch (read) the movie. This is just a fatiguing ordeal! So much is at stake.

http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/

THE NELSON REPORT: REALLY, REALLY GOOD GOSSIP

CHRIS NELSON OF THE NELSON REPORT IS ONE OF THE BEST INSIDER'S INSIDERS in Washington. I have been trying to reach him tonight to secure permission to reprint this excellent piece from his private newsletter but have thus far been unsuccessful.

So, hopefully I will be forgiven. If he hollers at me, then I'll have to take this down. . .but he shares some interesting insider gossip:

1. Pollster John Zogby, who has proven very accurate in recent years, has put his reputation on the line by already calling the election for Democratic nominee John Kerry. Zogby bases his call on his own models and the trends already reported.

2. Our sources say that private Republican pollsters like Frank Luntz agree, and that President Bush has been told he must win BOTH Ohio and Florida to have a chance at a second term. The latest numbers, however, indicate that Kerry is enlarging his earlier, one-point lead in both Ohio and Florida, as per the above.

3. White House sources say the Republican effort now is aimed at enlarging the Senate majority. . .a goal which seems likely, despite good leads by Democrats in Colorado (Salazar over Coors) and Florida (Castor over Martinez). A measure of the President's difficulty is that exit polls show Kerry to be doing twice as well as Gore/2000 with key elements of Bush's 2000 Florida strength. . .non-Cuban Hispanics, and Cubans.

4. We understand that a national press plane headed for Ohio and what had been assumed to be the "midnight poll watch" has turned around in mid-air and is now headed for Boston, and Kerry's Headquarters. This is a rumor, but from a press source.

5. There are private messages flying around the Internet, some allegedly from key White House staff, some quoting Vice President Cheney replicating his famous admonition to Sen. Leahy, only this time aimed at political director Karl Rove, and spin-meister Karen Hughes. While perhaps apocraphyl, the reported conversations seem symptomatic of a growing malaise at the top levels of the White House, as today's numbers blend into tonight.

Yes, it could be spin, but Chris Nelson is great at getting the very best stuff.

I'm off to my parties shortly. Stay tuned, and vote.

-- Steve Clemons

Very interesting....please, please, please be true.

Barak Obama ...VICTORY in Illinois!

Take heart, bushfatigued. If Kerry wins, he's going to change the national language to French so we'll all be fluent in it in no time.

Could someone tell me something encouraging? The electoral projections are scaring me to death.

Teresa, me too. My stomach is in my throat at this moment. Any calming words, anyone?

Teresa - I'm with you! The electorial projections are scaring me too. They sure don't seem to match up with what the Zogby projections are saying or anything else so far. I'm such a wreck I've eaten a box of chocolate chip cookies ..and I don't even like cookies! Going to be a long night (and most likely a 5 pound weight gain).

For bushfatigued and shylurker.....

Vive Kerry! Vive les Etats-Unis! Vive la Terre!
Vive le Monde! I have felt it all day long. Tomorrow we will all be absolutely giddy happy campers!

I can't stand it! The suspense is killing me. Can't listen to or watch any "news" programs. I've drank 2 beers and am a little loopy. So, I'm going to stagger off to bed now.

Patricia

I paid a quick visit to the Kerry site and they're saying not to worry. Bush has taken states he was expected to take as has Kerry. Isn't Kerry supposed to have Venus crossing his MC right about now?

mmmmmm.....chocolate chip cookies sound good

Stop worrying, everyone. It was the same way this way last time when Gore ran. But once Ohio, Wisconsin, Michigan, New Hampshire start reporting, the numbers may very easily change. Also, you have the Southern Counties in FL beginning to report and Kerry is running MUCH stronger than Gore did in 2000. Give it time, the numbers will change.

(Admission time: my heart is in my throat, too, and I can't sit still. And my stomach has been doing flip-flops all night. But we're almost done.)

Wait'll the New England states, NY and NJ come in. You'll feel much better.

Teg! I am encouraged by your enthusiastic attitude! Teresa - I hope the Kerry people are right! I've eaten all the cookies ... now searching for chocolate!

Shylurker, most of New England and New York and New Jersey are already in Kerry's column.

Siobhan, I have some leftover Halloween candy. If you sit real close to the computer maybe I can pass some to you. LOL.

Yes, Teresa, but their electoral votes haven't been added in (or they haven't on the c-span map anyhow).

Teresa! Wow - sounds good! I could use some about now! I made my daughter a cake to use as her Home Ec project tomorrow and it's been a struggle of will here not to eat that cake now myself! I may have to lock it in the car and give her the key to hold (smile)! My husband has gone to bed - can't stand the stress around here so it's me and the dogs keeping watch! They are eyeing the cake too!

Turn off the TV. I've been only on websites and I'm somewhat calmer without the sound - all the mind-numbing blah blah blah from the pundits.

Of course, eating some chocolate has helped.

This C-Span site has the map with a time clock and updates as they occur.

Good place to project BLUE! It will be over soon.
http://network.ap.org/dynamic/files/specials/election_night_2004/us_map_govsenhouse/index.html?SITE=CSPANELN&SECTION=POLITICS

What other states will go to Kerry most likely? Bush just took Utah and Arkansas. It's 181 to 112.

SEND LIGHT. This from Josh Marshall

November 02, 2004 – 09:52 PM EDT

WHAT WE'RE HEARING is that Florida is too close to call. In Ohio, the GOP is pulling out all the stops, frankly, to steal it in the courts, trying to get courts to stop voting for people who were already in line when the polls closed, ruling against provisional ballots, the whole nine yards. It's wall to wall ugly.

(November 02, 2004 -- 08:49 PM EDT

REPUBLICANS MAKE A lot about letting the people decide elections and not lawyers. But that's not how it's turning out tonight. Across the east and into the midwest, they're hitting the courts at every opportunity, trying to cut off as many opportunities to vote as possible.

November 02, 2004 -- 08:39 PM EDT

IN ALLEGHENY COUNTY, Pennsylvania, polling stations ran out of provisional ballots and voters were turned away through the day. Voting officials worked the overtime getting more ballots prepared. And now a judge has ordered that voters can come to the City-County building until 9:30 PM -- 90 minutes after the close of voting -- to vote by provisional ballot.

This is contrary to some published reports (CNN) that all the polls are open in the county.

Okay, Can’t help myself I’m back for a peek
What is this I just ate about 6 Oreo’s and turned off the French movie “He love me~~He Loves Me not” and am attempting to watch some terrible Halle Berry movie ~~Gothika. Nope, must change channels. Halle Berry was supposed to be married to Charles Dutton? Come on now that is a fantasy. (Kerry must win and heal and help heal this country) I won’t watch those news hacks yakking on and on. . .Maybe I’ll ebay for some jewelry.

KEEP THE FAITH!! All the red states are states we KNEW would go to Chimp. Hang in. Remember: all the young voters pull strong for Kerry. Very few of the industrial/large city states are reporting yet. Just back from the tavern - HUGE turnout, and my little town not only voted for Kerry (by only 28 votes!!) but ousted the Repug governor! Granted, that's just this little town, but you should have heard the ROAR that came up!

Hang tight, folks. Keep VISUALIZING!!

Bushfatigue....how about KerryOn

Ooo! Good one!

KerryOn, my wayward son,
there'll be PEACE when you are done;
lay your weary head to rest,
DON'T YOU CRY NO MRE!

Oops, meant MORE. Had a few margs at the Inn. ; )
Gawd, I love Democrats.

Good night all. I've been up since 5 a.m. and the tension is getting to me. What will be will be. I'm going to put on my blue nightie and drift off to sleep visualizing Kerry taking the oath of office.

If they steal it again, God help them. No forgiveness. None. Sorry no excuses, I haven't reached that level yet.

Don't panic yet. The exit polls show a completely different story. It takes a lot longer to count 4000 votes than 400. If you want to feel better go to faux news. Normally I can't take them for two seconds but tonight it's not bad. If they were winning so easily why aren't they gloating? My God, they are down right gloomy. I see that as a good (hope) sign.

They are projecting PA for Kerry!

Ah,
Found Under the Tuscan Sun ~~Perfect, Love Dianne Lane, will certainly help get my mind off Bush. My husband called and seemed all cheery and will be heading over to the Kerry camp soon. I don’t even like Oreo’s and now my stomach is really upset . . .. Judging by my last post, I’ve lost my ability to type and make sense all at the same time . . .. Must be the sugar, wine and Halle Berry’s bad acting. How is it that some red neck yahoo in Ohio is getting to decide who gets to be President? Maybe, if Bush does manage to win I’ll join Larry Flynn’s lead and move to France. I could brush up on my French it won’t take that much work . . . .Now, I’m rambling. I just want this over

And NEW HAMPSHIRE!! : )

Just saw a camera in the White House quarters....CBS news...Bush invited the news cameras in...he is laughing, relaxed and saying he is sure to win. I think this is not going to be close at all....it looks like the Rovian lies, the spin, the evangelical prostytizing has worked. I think Rove is rejoicing, unlike the above cited email that he is being cursed out. If none of the big dawgs for the GOP have come out to campaign, what does that say? That the fix was in a long time ago and they weren't needed? These exit polls....why are they so unlike the results of the voting? I don't get it. But those are a hell of a lot of red states. And the ones up in the air are Bush all the way, except PA....this is exactly what I feared with the aspects of Moon/Jupiterin Bush's chart....they love him as much as we (or most of us) loved Clinton. I hope Sally or one of the other astrologers can explain this....even though the polls here just closed, we are irrelevant to....NEVADA's vote?

I am personally sickened...sorry for being so negative, all I can do is hope for a better 2 hours ahead....

Buzzflash has pulled the Zogby poll that claimed a Kerry win .. does anybody have a link to the chart they had on line that showed their projections??

OK....I looked at the chart for right now and realized that the moon had gotten to me....I don't do well with the Cancer moon energy at all! oops...it is right on my daughter's natal moon right now...I'd better shut up. Geminis all spout from uneasiness....but it looks like some of the states which were in the Bush column 20 minutes ago have a gain for Kerry....so now I can see why those swing states are so important. On a personal level, and who really cares about that, I am NOT eating like a mad woman....now THAT is different! I am not doing that, and I am not depressed, as I was in 2000....boy, nothing like grabbing at straws.

From KOS - buck up, folks:

Cool Jets Time
People, the states are so far falling in line with expectations....expectations under which we win.....a good template is at linked text We are on track except that we have WON New Jersey and its 15 EVs.  That spells victory even if we Lose FL (if we also win OH).

Of course we need Michigan to kick in.  PA looks safe.

http://zogby.com/

The Zogby poll needs to be examined.....the swing state chart has to be looked at and compared with the numbers coming in. BTW...Wash DC went 90% to 9% for Kerry.....imagine what THAT means....

Michigan is going for Kerry...this is a little behind, I think...but http://network.ap.org/dynamic/files/specials/election_night_2004/us_map_govsenhouse/index.html?SITE=CSPANELN&SECTION=POLITICS

Judi - thank you!! I've been watching that compared to what the TV polls are showing. I'm so wired up I don't think I can go to sleep at all tonight - too much stress!!

Judi, where do you see on that link that Michigan is going to Kerry?

Guys, sorry, my browser crashed....it is the CSPAN interactive map..http://network.ap.org/dynamic/files/specials/election_night_2004/us_map_govsenhouse/index.html?SITE=CSPANELN&SECTION=POLITICS

all you have to do is move your mouse ofver the state, and it brings up the voting results...it is terrfic...can't figure out how the networks are adding these things up....all different. And I just noticed the sentence from the article..."it doesn't pass my Scorpio smell test" - something isn't passing mine, either....

Lucy,
You little darlin' keep putting up the cheerful posts. . . I sure need to read them. It's down right gloomy over at DU

Just got a call from my son checking up on how I'm holding up. . . . I told him to get his passport up dated, asap, since he has medical experience. If Bush wins he will be called up because of his background.
This is the longest night of my life. . .I am getting so nervous and wired I don'think I could sleep if I even wanted to. . .

holy cow, WI has moved back in the Kerry column; Nevada is still in Kerry column; Oregon still with Kerry..MN with Kerry. CO and NM still with Bush. Unfortunately, so is FL...but why am I not surprised? NH is still on Kerry side. And Iowa is Kerry side.Ark will prob go to Bush, alsthough only 48% are counted...and maybe the big Dem counties haven't been counted yet.

Sorry, there was nothing to indicate, on first glance, that it was an interactive map. That's great news!

NH has been called for Kerry, so that's a sure thing.

There was some configuration where Kerry wouldn't even need Florida, but I can't find it, damn it! Does anyone else have that info? I think it's Michigan, Ohio, NH (done), Iowa(?) and one other - ? AAUUGGH!

Also, they are saying that the heavily Dem precincts in FLA won't be counted until the wee hours...

DON'T GIVE UP. I saw the damned donkey!! ; )

But the CSPAN map is about 10 minutes behind, I think....and doesn't show that WA state went to Kerry....in fact, it shows Bush ahead....????

I think what is interesting is that 5 deg. of Leo is rising right now...Bush is 7 deg Leo rising...and the moon 18 Cancer and saturn 27 Cancer are in the 12th house. will the moon conjunct his Saturn when this is finally called?

Lucy, you gave me the best laugh I've had all night with that damn donkey thing!!! THanks - I'm not giving up till the fat lady sings .. and hopefully she's singing by dawn and playing an accordian too!

the senate and house races look awful....Dems have lost two to the repubs, and in the house they've lost 6.

Seems to me, the Dems need to do some real revising ala what the repugs did 10 years ago....get a better plan...!

Could be! How long does it take for the moon to move 9 degrees? 2-3 more hours? My ephemeris is upstairs and my husband bailed and went to bed. I'd have to wake him up to get it..

Atta girl, Siobhan.

There are alot of states still counting. Maybe we should wait this out with another visualization?

Where's Jonathan? I hope he has not given up and gone off to bed! We could use some of his positive input right about now!

Lucy - visualize a surprise Kerry win .. and throw in the Donkey for extra luck! Can't hurt at this point!!

Latest from Kos is that Iowa is going for Kerry, and he just pulled ahead in Wisconsin.

A few years ago I went with a friend to hear a young woman from Hawaii speak. She was supposed to be able to channel the Holy Mother. It was a very small intimate group and when she finished she came over and held each persons hand. Only myself and one other person were given a message from the Holy Mother that night. The young woman whispered in my ear that I was to always call upon the Holy Mother when I was in need or distress and then she looked me in the eyes and said “Now, Please remember, and don’t forget my message”
For some reason, I remembered that message tonight and have called on the “The Holy Mother” a higher being, to help this distressed country . . . Maybe if a few more will did same. . . if so inclined~

I'm with you on that. We must keep the faith no matter what.

Bushfatigued - I've been doing that exact thing all night, and thrown in a few prayers to the Angels as well. Every prayer however uttered is heard and answered for the higher good. I think you were given that message for a good reason and perhaps you were especially to remember that young woman's message tonight! Thanks for sharing that with us.

From Kos:

So far, no big surprises. Like I wrote below, we need surprises to win the presidency.

Ohio is not out of contention, not as long as the urban areas (like Cuyahoga county) fail to report in. My brother, who has been crunching numbers all night (he likes math), makes a persuassive case that Bush will have a 20K lead in Ohio without absentees after all urban precincts report. The absentees would decide the race.

Florida won't be called tonight, not without so many absentee ballots outstanding (1 million). I don't feel good about Florida, but those absentees are mostly from Dem areas according to MSNBC. It's not over.

NH looks ready to go to Kerry. (It already has.) And early Nevada results look good. Same with the rest of the Gore states except for New Mexico.

If we hold the Gore states, which is quite a reasonable assumption, and flip Nevada and New Hampshire, then we have the dreaded 269-269 results.

But Ohio would be the big prize.

So let's focus on Ohio and Florida with that nice blue/white light, Mother Mary.

Florida just got called for Bush....I thought all the votes were still being counted? Looks like Ohio will go to Bush, and Colorado and NM....

Too much to copy; go to:

http://openthread.dailykos.com/story/2004/11/2/23455/0278

Whoa! There are more than a million absentee ballots that have not been counted in FLA yet. Lots more counting in Ohio, too. Judi, are we losing you? Hang in.

Well you guys, I am basically very reality based and I have a hard time with faith....I see the lies and distortions and the fact that most of the physical space in this country is red...I am Sun conjunct Saturn, 16 Gemini...right on Kerry's descendent....with Scorpio rising, I am on the suspicious side. Sometimes I feel very left out on this board, just because I don't easily see the bright side. I am overly serious....but I can't seem to be anything other than that. I feel like when I post my messages, all I do is bring everyone down. I've been fired from at least one job because of saying...uhoh, that's not going to work. And I was right...and people's lives were ruined. I want this more than anyone....but I don't believe that this is an enlightened country...yet. However, if you guys go on keeping the faith, maybe it will...but I'll be out there in the tower, acting as the bell weather...probably my REAL job in this life. PS...CSPAN/AP is who called Florida for Bush....

C-SPAN Ohio County Map (none / 0)
If you need an ounce of faith, go to the C-SPAN map and click on the state of Ohio.  At the bottom of the chart, click on County/Presidential.  Look at the urban counties still tallying votes.  Cuyahoga, Hamilton, Franklin, Summit, Montgomery, etc.  Plenty of votes still coming in.  In fact, there still lined up to vote in some precincts!  Ohio did it for Clinton and Ohio will do it for Kerry.

Someone asked an astrologer to explain what is happening. Most astrologers have all along said Kerry should win but we could not make predictions on the voting machines. We don't know what happened to those machines. Ohio is being tied up in legal problems and Florida has been called in spite of over a million absentee ballots still uncounted. Zogby's prediction was based on solid numbers and he has been correct in his predictions for years. As I have said Neptune has been strongly in play in this election as it was in the last election and cutting through that fog is very difficult as we found out over the last 4 years.

Read the Kos comments....well, I really thought it would be a landslide for Kerry....I really really did...how's that for faith? But it ain't over til its over, and the Sox won at the very last moment in the ACLS....

That's the spirit, Judi!

I have to admit, I'm starting to have chest pains, but why the hell isn't anyone saying anything about those absentees in FLA?

Zogby's reputation isn't something he tosses around lightly, I'm sure. Sally and many others said this would not be decided tonight.

Judi! Don't give up! Remember those Sox .. they did win at the last moment and nobody really thought they would! Hang in there with us! You may have a hard time seeing the bright side of things like you said, but that's OK .. you just see things in black/white and we need people like you too as sometimes us "dreamers" have to be brought back down to earth a little and face facts ourselves. Keep in there with us .. you are a wonderful addition to this board!

Zogby was ABSOLUTELY certain Kerry would win, and by a lot....and why in the world has it taken little NH so long to go into Kerry column? geez....a minute after the polls closed in CA, it was declared the winner for Kerry....
Sally, that was me asking about what the astrologers were saying...
We may have to come to grips with the fact that this country loves their Bush....like they mostly had to when Clinton was in. But this is so freaky to me....what is scary to me is that it seems to be a pattern as people age to become more conservative. And the YUPPIES are dominant in terms of sheer size....I think it is because people get less curious and more in need of stability as they age, especially after 50...and that may be why we are seeing red....people are calcifying into a pattern.

NH was called for Kerry a long time ago. The networks are full of shit.

There will be more tomorrow. If there isn't, than this fucking country deserves what it gets.

Thanks for the support....Sally, thanks for the cliff notes for the predictions, too....and I continue to watch the charts...astrology charts, that is...btw...I am not really a black and white person....I am more like Kerry, I see huge complexities....but being reality based does mean that Neptune is used for art more than for wishful thinking....I would much rather be an opotomist, because optimists really do tend to get what they want (like Bush)....realists tend to be limited by their assessment of reality. It cuts both ways here....you can stay out of trouble, but not realize the dream....

Lucy ... you are SO right!

Lucy, I 'm with you! This country deserves what it gets....and we may end up along for the ride. But I predicted a 57% edge for Kerry....but as Sally said, we don't know about the voting in the swing states...look at the Zogby chart....so far everything has gone off as predicted...except Florida!....how suspicious is that? Oh, and what was said on KOS was that they already know the breakdown of the votes for those ballots, as they are declared party ballots...it will only enhance the current percentages.

This has got to come down to the last out in the bottom of the 9th.....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=201x1144

From KOS:

CBS JUST SAID-OHIO VOTES WILL NOT BE FINISHED AT LEAST UNTIL 3AM

NO RUSH TO CALL IT

DON'T LET THEM DO IT.
LIFE OR DEATH. THIS IS NOT A GAME

We have enough votes just with MN IA WI MI and OHIO -that is 271.
That is without HI and NH NEV NM AK

The trouble is that the Bush voters are going to take us down with them.

God. . . I have a son that is draft age. I am so. . . well. . . flatlined right now.

Maybe when a few more of those gung-ho fools have their kids killed they'll come to the realizations about Bush that we have had for a long time.

Come on Lucy,
You're cheerful spirit is needed. . . .How can so many people be so blind and frightened? Who was it that all those standing in those long lines voted for . . .Am I feeling suspicious for no real reason? Or just shocked at how dare stupid Americans are!

I am not the only one who is depressed (and Ramsay Clark has already started up the impeachbush web site: from Kos:

If the Nightmare comes true....
It is time to start doing to Bush and Co.. what they did to Clinton.. File Lawsuits.. Enron, Tom Delay.. find a sex scandal somewhere anywhere.. start looking into Halliburton.. well.. deeper into Halliburton.. Get the AG from NY on the cases.. Time to start organizing the troops to take this administration down if they win.. Just like Nixon.. TAKE THEM DOWN.. yes I am tired.. ANGRY as HELL.. and look for a REAL IMPEACHMENT this time.. WE AS INTELLIGENT AMERICANS need to STAND UP AND TAKE OUR COUNTRY BACK.. because obviously the RELIGIOUS ZEALOTS want us to be a religious state.. they keep saying that those are the people who turned the polls upside down. Playing on the GAY MARRIAGE and ABORTION buttons.BASTARDS.. all of them..

LETS GET ORGANIZED NOW..!!!!

The trouble is that the Bush voters are going to take us down with them.

God. . . I have a son that is draft age. I am so. . . well. . . flatlined right now.

Maybe when a few more of those gung-ho fools have their kids killed they'll come to the realizations about Bush that we have had for a long time.

Come on Lucy,
You're cheerful spirit is needed. . . .How can so many people be so blind and frightened? Who was it that all those standing in those long lines voted for . . .Am I feeling suspicious for no real reason? Or just shocked at how dare stupid Americans are!

Some strange reason for a double post??? Anyway I meant darn stupid!!!!!!!!!

go to yahoo.com, scroll down to their map, still can win but need to win Ohio.

thought there were going to be about 120 million votes cast, add totals for bus + kerry and states to be determined - where are the missing 15 mil?

bob

bushfatigued...dumb as a bag of hammers...except that I just read that it is the well educated voters in FL who voted for Bush....
This is from Air America web site:
Ohio Court Ruling May Cause Chaos

Ohio Republicans won in court today. They challenged 23,000 voters, mostly minorities. The only problem is that the ruling came half way through the Election Day, which means that poll workers had already been letting these challenge voters in without, well, challenging them. Democrats fear chaos may ensue from this ruling. They appealed to the Supreme Court.

Touching Florida: Voter Update

It's happening folks. As the votes roll in, so do the shady dealings. Congressmen Wexler warned voters to double check the results of their touch screen voting machines. He's been getting calls from voters claiming that when they tried to vote for Kerry, they found Bush's name selected. The new TS machines in Florida also gave George W. Bush a several thousand vote lead before anyone even laid a finger on them, thereby "effectively voiding" votes for John Kerry. Also in Florida, a failed optical scan machine is forcing election officials to recount about 13,000 ballots in Volusia County.

This is what Sally was talking about...

There is real anger and depression at Kos.

How about Ohio? Isn't that the state that the head of Diebolt (spell?) told Bush he would hand him in this election??? This stinks.

Cuyahoga County numbers (none / 0)
We've got a margin of over 210,000 votes in Cuyahoga, with almost all votes tallied (except those still voting and provisional, etc)

PRESIDENT AND VICE-PRESIDENT  
Vote for 1 (With 1447 of 1458 precincts counted)
MICHAEL BADNARIK/RICHARD V. CAMPAGNA  1823    

GEORGE W. BUSH/DICK CHENEY  214595    

JOHN F. KERRY/JOHN EDWARDS  430338    

SO what do these Cuyahoga County numbers mean????

Was this posted before ~ interesting way to see the states. . . .

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/HI/P/00/

Apparently they mean, and I repeat, that the networks are full of shit.

CNN won't call OHIO for bush yet!!! Bless their hearts...

Lawrence, those numbers came from someone in Ohio, with almost all precincts reporting. This is where the recount crap will happen, tomorrow. This is why the Repugnant Pissant Cretins are pulling all their last-minute bullshit.

I'm fading. Must sleep soon. If that's possible.

Yea Siobhan,
It All Comes Down to Ohio, The State That the Head of Diebold Promised to Deliver for Bush. . .doesn't make one feel to hopeful.

But I am now watching John Stewart and the Rev Al Sharpton is on and very funny. He can really come up with some very funny lines.

Bushfatigued....I feel for you. Went through the draft experience with my daughter's father. He was finally forced into the army at Ft. Ord when my daughter was a few months old...in 1970 (he was 27 years old in barracks with 18 year old kids bound for the worst of Vietnam). He went through basic, but when in came to carrying a weapon, he refused. He said he would do anything else but not carry a weapon. They eventually gave him a general discharge. Now they would just make him a file clerk outside of Falluja...

The irony of all of this is that the fu**ed up lies of Rove/Bush are accepted BECAUSE he is viewed as a positive, upbeat leader (read: not a realist, like me) Kerry is a realist....but doesn't have a Rovian/GOP machine which plays dirty politics. This is football mentality....win at all costs-maim the opponent. One of the things that Nick Lehman reported in his New Yorker article was the incident where Nolan Ryan beaned Robin Ventura, Ventura charged Ryan and Ryan put him in a headlock and proceeded to punch him in the face at least 6 times with full force....Bush was so gleeful over this (he was in the front row at the game) ....this is his view of himself as the victor....this is how he wants to play the game. This is why we are at war....and the people putting him there have given their ok to this kind of game.

all in the name of god...and the game.

MSNBC has Bush with 269 electoral votes....270 needed to win.

KERRY NOT CONCEEDING!

NBC has called Ohio for Bush.

Guys, the majority of the WORLD stands with you today, the people who voted for Kerry, you have our strength and support.

PatC what do you mean "Kerry not conceding?"

I mistakenly clicked on the 72 names of God meditation instead of a google search for Kerry not conceding, and got this:
#3 Miracle Making
.....I free myself from all selfishness, envy, anger, and self-pity. By rejecting these negative temptations, I am free to invoke this Name-thereby igniting the power of miracles in my life...

I would say Kerry needs one...Pat C.. where is the story coming from?

I just feel so crushed . . .

http://www.nov3.us

Goddamn it, Ohio isn't done yet!!

From the Kerry camp:

“The vote count in Ohio has not been completed. There are more than 250,000 remaining votes to be counted. We believe when they are, John Kerry will win Ohio.”

Laurie - me too. And I'm very, very ashamed to be an American tonight. I think we as a nation have chosen the darkness over the light and that we will never be the same again. I fear for this country and what we will face with Bush again for another 4 years. We have all been so divided and this will just finish the deal with more hatred and distrust on both sides. We have taken a long step into the darkness tonight. God help us all.

They are trying to call him out after they called Ohio for Bush. Kerry's not going for it. :-)

Do you all realize that if the election has been stolen again that it will continue to be stolen for a VERY LONG TIME?
What is to stop this from happening in 2008, 2012? Or beyond? hi tech cheating should get more and more sophisticated.

Pat C where did you see or hear this or is this just what Daily Koz said on his blog. I haven't heard Kerry's campaign say they were not going to concede the election

Judi,
My daughter just called near tears. . .she is so worried about what could happen to her brother, her boyfriend and so many of her other male friends. She just can't believe how Bush could win after all the lies and failures. . .Laurie, what was all those long lines in Fl about? Excuse my language but this country has just screwed its self! I'll go to bed and attempt to sleep. . .well Bushfatigued it is. . .I'm not sure I will make it!

Siobban I think we posted the same idea at the same time.

I should hope Kerry doesn't concede.

MSNBC. Mary Beth Cahill said no way.

Daily Koz is saying Kerry will not concede until all the votes are counted. Lawyers dispatched to Ohio and Florida. Exit polls from both states indicated a Kerry win. This might get messy if Kerry doesn't concede and I hope to God he doesn't I hope they fight this scum to the bitter end. Al Gore threw in the towel for what he said was for the country's "best interest." Well Senator Kerry "for the country's best interest" you had better hang in there for all of us.

Bev Harris outfit is filing massive FOIA request (letter at http://blackboxvoting.org

http://blackboxvoting.org

SEATTLE, WASHINGTON Nov 3 2004 -- Did the voting machines trump exit polls? There’s a way to find out.

Black Box Voting (.ORG) is conducting the largest Freedom of Information action in history. At 8:30 p.m. Election Night, Black Box Voting blanketed the U.S. with the first in a series of public records requests, to obtain internal computer logs and other documents from 3,000 individual counties and townships. Networks called the election before anyone bothered to perform even the most rudimentary audit.

GO TO http://blackboxvoting.org America: We have permission to say No to this. It is our right.

We call on every candidate not to concede. Don't play along. It is your right.

I think we need Gandhi now, more than ever. Bush is driving us in his gas guzzling Hummer (which is of course, another name for a blow job) down the dusty road to his personal belief in Armaggedon and the Rapture....

Seems to me the country is wanting to take the ride with him. OR NOT...what if this is all Diebold all the time?

Last night I got out my Chopra book and asked it to open to the page of importance. Here’s what I got...

I pass it on to you for what it’s worth.

________________________________________________
From Deepak Chopra’s The Seven Spiritual Laws of Success:

Applying the Law of Least Effort.

1. I will practice Acceptance. Today I will accept people, situations, circumstances, and events as they occur. I will know that this moment is as it should be, because the whole universe is as it should be. I will not struggle against the whole universe by struggling against this moment. My acceptance is total and complete. I accept things as they are this moment, not as I wish they were.

2. Having accepted things as they are, I will take Responsibility for my situation and for all those events I see as problems. I know that taking responsibility means not blaming anyone or anything for my situation(and this includes myself). I also know that every problem is an opportunity in disguise, and this alertness to opportunities allows me to take this moment and transform it into a greater benefit.

3. Today my awareness will remain established in Defenselessness. I will relinquish the need to defend my point of view. I will feel no need to convince or persuade others to accept my point of view. I will remain open to all points of view and not be rigidly attached to any one of them.
______________________________________________

I pass this on to you tonight for whatever reason. I can do #1 well enough, and don’t see #2 as any problem, but #3 is the hardest one for me.

Anyway, we will still have to see how the whole thing works out.

Best to all. And to all a good night.

OG

OFFICIAL~~~~~The nuts are in charge of the asylum

Examples besides Bush of course
Bunning won in Kentucky
Coburn in Oklahoma

And apparently the usual Florida Democratic Jewish population voted for Bush . . .Go figure.

Well, Cheney did say Kerry may have the big rally’s but we’ll have the votes! Did he/they know something the rest of us didn’t know?

Going to bed very disappointed with Americans

OH boy...what developments. Are we going to have fun. thanks for posting the black box voting....

Ohmy... the whole election was over so quickly, wasn't it? Elections that are shams & "in the script" are over quickly... so the audience can get to their after-show snacks without making it a too-late evening. There was nothing real about this election except for millions of earnest voters, who've had the destructive temp employees take over the bidness. Neptune has been the most dominant energy since this whole fiasco started... at least in 2000. We will eventually see how it all works out. Many powerful people in the World are not bush lovers & have already made their plans to destoy the regime.

I rather thot the usual cadre of pundits & talking haids, including bushaholic, had some extra intense smirks on what passed as their faces. These smirks can quickly change into surprise, then horror imo.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1293911

More at DU: CNN just changed their Ohio exit poll page

Oh... I also think that that Kerry is ready for 'em. He's no dummie, that one.

And anyone who accepts the notion that their children & grandchildren must be fed into bushamoloch's firey war jaws on general principles need to work to rid themselves of serf consciousness.

Old Granny...throw away Deepak Chopra, he's made enough money off of all of us. His is capitalist spirituality in the long run, whether he meant to be or not.

Get mad instead, and be like Bush....NEVER ADMIT YOU ARE WRONG. Damn, too much of this is NON ACTIVIST crap.

Gandhi (another Indian) said:
"What kind of victory is it when someone is left defeated? What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty and democracy. What is a war criminal? Was not war itself a crime against God and humanity, and, therefore, were not all those who sanctioned, engineered and conducted wars, war criminals? The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong. Non-cooperation with evil is a sacred duty." Gandhi

Too many democrats are listening to the wrong Indian...namaste.....

and here is another Gandhi quote to live by:
"THE THINGS THAT WILL DESTROY US ARE: POLITICS WITHOUT PRINCIPLE; PLEASURE WITHOUT CONSCIENCE; WEALTH WITHOUT WORK; KNOWLEDGE WITHOUT CHARACTER; BUSINESS WITHOUT MORALITY; SCIENCE WITHOUT HUMANITY; AND WORSHIP WITHOUT SACRIFICE." – MAHATMA GANDHI

Hold on folks --

CNN says current electoral vote Bush 249, Kerry 242.

Its NOT over yet.

Just saw this post at Washingtonmonthly.com

"Just to let every one know...they are still voting in Ohio, I just left the polling place at Gambier Ohio and there are still 100 or so people in line....they will be voting for another 2 hours or so

Posted by: Duane on November 3, 2004 at 2:21 AM

Remember what Sally wrote.

"
"Looking at the Neptune influence today makes me feel like I'm on drugs. All of us laboring under the illusion (myself included) that we will have a quick decision, an obvious decision can begin the process of accepting the fact that it's an illusion. The immature and out of control "Jr. High" tricks of people who are supposed to be our leaders is a stunner to me. Have we all been so blinded that we have actually believed America was "better' than other countries. The blatent dirty tricks in this election are overwhelming, I guess because it's in our face and we can count on Neptune stripping away our illusions about our Constitution, our leaders, our justice system.

Not only has government squandered the trust of our allies, they are squandering the faith Americans have in their country and their leaders. Kerry is going to have to turn his "Swift Boat" into the enemy over the next weeks. With all the Neptune influence in today's chart, including Neptune inconjunct the transiting Moon and transiting Sun coming to a square to Neptune, the lies, dirty tricks almost ensure a long battle without a clear cut outcome.

Today, transiting Pluto is in an exact (by degree and Minute) conjunction to GWB's South Node, if he manages to cheat his way back into the White House, he can count on reaping the whirlwind."

And remember what Nancy wrote.

"After much consideration of the many astrological factors, I am predicting that we may well have a post-election power struggle that will culminate between November 20 and 25, with John Kerry the winner. Our present-day increasingly vicious cultural civil war is likely to be ruthless, fierce, and deeply disturbing during these three weeks. Unfortunately, though the Kerry victory will be immensely important, it will not herald the end of this bitter war between two opposing and mutually exclusive world views. One can hope, however, that with appropriate presidential leadership, some of the excesses of this ongoing battle can be muted in the coming years."

Not over yet. Thank you, Sally. Kerry will fight tooth and nail, and we probably won't know until a week or two, just like all the astrologers said. What I want to know is : When the hell does Neptune take a hike?!

It's almost 3AM and there is no sleeping for me. Hey, at least we got rid of our Bushista asshole Repug Governor here in NH!! Yeah! Sorry for the truck driver language. I tend to cuss when I am exhausted, a wee bit drunk and really, really pissed off.

Pat C. thanks for posting that date Nancy wrote about and I don't remember reading.....found this on Kos...

warren zevon got it right

send lawyers guns and money, the shit has hit the fan.

Lucy....we like you that way!

Stay tuned, then! You ain't seen nothin' yet.

Maybe this is what America needs...PASSION....political passion. On Kos they are talking about the media changing the exit poll data to reflect the numbers being shown for the voting in Ohio and Florida....but Duane posted the link above to the fact that they are still voting in Ohio....lordy lordy, what karma this mess be....

Kerry will have to get Ohio, Wisconsin and Iowa and Iowa says there will be no results given tonight, don't know about Wisconsin and don't know about Iowa

curiouser and curiouser...e gads, quelle bummer!

guido is very sorry. he wishes he'd been wrong about the red sox and right about kerry.

it's not over but barring a major scandal, we all have to suffer with the collective guilt of so much negative energy.

events will not give * a honney moon. iraq, the economy, eco catastrophes. terrific, just wonderful. boy, won't that be fun to watch his popularitiy drop before 40% and talk to all those people who say how surprised they are that he's a bum.

and now we have two certifiable goof balls in the senate: bunning of ky and coburn of ok (wants to execute doctors who do abortions, unless it's him of course)

nite

interesting thing to remember.

someone on DU pointed out that the exit polls matched up very well in states without voting machines and poorly (5% off consistently) in states with voting machines.

if this is true, well, here we go. but who would report it?

lets watch this one

Honestly, I have trouble seeing how Kerry will pull out Ohio with what he's up against with the numbers.

For those of us on this board, it sure looks like another stolen election, and they always seem to be one step ahead of us in figuring out new ways to steal it and not get caught. The voting machines are clearly fishy. Need I say more? Well, I will, in a separate post.

I did some phone banking for MoveOn for FL, and talked to a guy who was told that he couldn't vote because he didn't have a picture ID. I told him that I didn't see why he couldn't bring a utilty bill or somethiing else with his address (you can, in LA). He insisted he couldn't vote without the ID.

I wonder what else Jeb and Co. got away with.

Posted by Gina at November 3, 2004 08:57 AM

Yeah, even with the provisionals and the absentees, he would have to make up 150k votes.

Fixed? I'll always wonder. How do record turnouts not mean change?

OK, anger aside (for now), there's a lot of fear going around. A whole lot of people who voted for Bush did so out of fear--fear of terrorism, fear of taxes, fear of gay marriage. We haven't been able to speak to that fear, and reach them, partly because we're scared, too--namely, of what they can do to us with all their newfound power. And tonight, the world is a much scarier place than it was 24 hours ago.

I hope that we won't all beat ourselves up because we went out a limb to predict a Kerry win. If the machines are fair (and more of our people turn out), Kerry indeed does win. Sure, that's what was "supposed" to happen. Even then, we always knew it could have gone either way.

And we always knew that there was the possibility that the election could--and would--be stolen. Sally, I think you called it from the get-go. The only thing that didn't turn out as expected was the end result.

Kerry may have had the better aspects, but my experience has been that it's not always the aspects that help or hurt you, it's how they are used.

The only cosmic reason I could possibly see for a Bush win, with all these new screwballs in the Senate, is that this might be what it takes for people to see the moral bankrupcy and hypocrisy of the conservative movement. The bad news is that, for people to see this bankrupcy, it may require looking in the mirror.

We are choosing to learn our lessons the hard way. I hate to see how we're going to learn them, but I hope that, sooner or later, those lessons will finally be learned.

The Senate, also, is going more Republican. There will be no checks and balances.

Daschle has lost, a good man with honor.
A nasty underhanded man has won the Florida Senate seat. And on and on . . .

The country must enjoy have a huge deficit, no health care and losing their jobs to outsourcing.

This is the worst day of my life.

Posted by Mark:

Fixed? I'll always wonder. How do record turnouts not mean change?

That's what's absolutely frightening to me: WE ARE GETTING CHANGE. It's the KIND of change that scares me.

The inmates are running the asylum, and the fundies are running the government. And they're set to give us radical social change: a regressive tax system, a privatized social security, criminalized abortion, criminalized birth control, and a Federal Marriage Amendment.

Now that the Cromwells are in power, how do we stop them before they hurt us? Can we? And how do we better communicate to the public that this agenda is a REALLY BAD IDEA? What is it going to take to reach them?

One positive: Kerry will not be held accountable for all of Bush's mistakes, which is what they were planning to do if Kerry won.

Only Bush is accountable, but who is there to hold him to the fire? Oh me.

Enough said, off to bed.

Just some news from the U.K.

Went to bed at 5 a.m. GMT with the BBC calling it at GWB: 238 JFK: 188 and ITV GWB:207 JFK: 199 - a wide difference, doncha think.

It looks like the media are trying to manipulate it again - constant reports of FOX calling Florida for GWB.

Woke up at 7.45 a.m.GMT & BBC reported the election as all but over with GWB: 249 JFK: 224 but ITV have GWB: 249 JFK: 242 with reports of glum faces at Republican HQ in DC.

What has been lacking is an anlysis of the figures coming in from the states and holding back on calls from blue states creating the ILLUSION of Bush being out in front all night and being too close to call when, in reality, the voting was still going on. Is Minnesota going for GWB? Wisconsin? The PA vote was never too close to call but very little mention was made of Kerry's strong lead in the polls. Hardly any mention of Zogby.

Speaking of Zogby - they've got it right. The 311-213 call for Kerry is based on OH/FL with a lead for Bush trending Kerry. On a 47-vote turn around it would stand at GWB: 260 JFK: 264 with the undecideds coming into play.

This is not over by a long shot. The GWB supporters are not over the line. FL needs a lot of scrutiny before you can call it for anyone and OH has a long way to go. A few strong Democrat precincts could turn that the state around very quickly - they were still voting in some areas when I went to bed at 5.

I think ITV have it about right with GWB: 249(inc. FL) JFK:242 - and that's without Oregeon(sp.?) which would make it 249 each.

*Kerry needs OH + one other state to win.*

Sally and all the astrologers have called this right. The Neptunian illusion is that GWB has won when he is NOT over the line.

This is just the end of the beginning - hang on in there!

Oh, and if it does go pear-shaped, Scotland has a declining population so you would be more than welcome here!

And remember what JE said - 'wait until ALL the votes are counted.'

"The country must enjoy have a huge deficit, no health care and losing their jobs to outsourcing."

No problem! We'll just ban gay marriage. Then abortion, Then birth control...

Laurie and everyone else: believe it or not, I still believe that there is light at the end of this tunnel, and that it's not necessarily an oncoming train.

The best words of comfort I can offer right now are from Dr. King: "The arc is long, but it bends towards justice."

Right now, I think we're on the upswing of the arc. Assuming we don't all decide, "Screw it, I'll get 'saved,' and join the fundies," the struggle for peace and justice will be a long one. It looks like it's just going to take longer than expected.

I agree Jase, after reading this article. It's far from over, and I don't mean just Ohio. There are 1.6 absentee ballots left to be counted in Florida!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6364144/

Posted by Jase: *Kerry needs OH + one other state to win.*

Sally and all the astrologers have called this right. The Neptunian illusion is that GWB has won when he is NOT over the line.

If Kerry could somehow pull out Ohio, all he would need would be Wisconsin. But he's up against an awful lot in Ohio. I have a hard time seeing how he would pull that off. I

'm glad that Kerry didn't cede tonight, but I'm being realistic. Challenging Ohio is Kerry's only option, at this point; so far, it's not too promising--not yet, anyway.

I have been up all night and boy this has been a tough day. Its about as painful and low as it can go....first time ever, I actually feel scared to be living in this country. Another 4 years of Bush? Something is rotting in Texas. I think Bin Laden just won. Two fundamentalists left to duke it out at the expense of the suffering of millions. Could I put it in any lighter? Not in the mood I am in.

Lots of prayers for the next 4 years and then some. Who knows when this train wreck ends?

From the belly of the beast: remember what I posted earlier about being a flusher? When our crew went out to get more votes for Kerry, our African-American voters had already voted or were about to. We had no undecideds.

For the first time, I understood the cosmic purpose of having Kerry here. (Hard coming from a former Deaniac). Kerry is a warrior who has faced death many times and beat it soundly. He faced down Nixon and survived. He dove into the secrets of BCCI and Iran-Contra. Unlike Gore, who wanted the love of the Washington elite cocktail party circuit, and wanted to be a boyscout, Kerry wont give up his rights for social popularity. Kerry, after all, faced social ostacism for protesting the Vietnam war so vehemently. He made Dem enemies of those who were part of the BCCI scandal.

Edwards is a fighter too, working to support his boss's efforts rather than undermining them. And I believe they have a few tricks up their sleeve as well.

I told you the SOB would try to steal it. That's what's happened here. The rigged voting machines, folks. Now, Mr. Kerry put on your boxing gloves and go to it.

Patricia

Could the Washington Redskins be wrong for the first time? They have a perfect record of predicting the outcome of the Presidential election, so how could they be wrong this time????

I think the problem this time is not with hanging chads, but absentee ballots! Signatures being disputed; ballots deliberately not being sent out or "received" on time in Democratic constituents. I even wonder if my absentee ballot may have been one rejected. How does one find this out?
I think the Democrats have been robbed again, but if King George does end up winning the White House again, "uneasy will be the head that wears the crown".

Hahahahahahahaha. Joanno O, I just love your 7:25 a.m. post. I'm still rolling on the floor laughing hahahaha.

This is nothing more than a total f***ing sham!!!

I've been scooting around and found this at Micheal Moore's site...

http://www.michaelmoore.com/electionwatch/state.php?state=FL

Think of the thousands of Kerry votes that have been passed off as B*sh votes. This is an open and shut case of fraud. Do not lie down, do not give up and do not be manipulated by the media because if you don't you may NEVER get another chance of living in democratic USA where you get to choose your representatives. Fight for your lives because these b#st#rds are coming to get you.

It is not a case of better luck in 2008 - luck has nothing to do with it. Expose this sham, expose this lie being shoved down the world's throat. This is now a real fight for anything resembling freedom. Think of Churchill in and Britain in 1940 - it looked hopeless but NEVER GIVE UP! NEVER GIVE UP! NEVER GIVE UP! and you will (and everybody with a sense of decency around the world) win a great victory.

It may look dark now but keep your spirits and your heads held high, be proud of what you stand for - fight on the beaches, on the streets, in the cities and the towns and PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not give in. We need you!

Light to you all!

Global monitors find faults.....

http://iht.com/bin/print_ipub.php?file=/articles/2004/11/02/news/observe.html

Jase,

Thank you for posting Michael Moore's comments. They are my sentiments exactly. We witnessed corpo-fascio psyc ops last night... networks holding back results in blue states, to give ILLUSION (Neptune) dubya was AHEAD. This political junkie knows huge turnout translates into Democratic win... 'course that was when we had paper ballots. Zogby gave it to Kerry at early evening from exit polls --- Kerry 311... again, that was without emachines... the ILLUSION is that dubya was ahead and that he WON... it is not over... votes are still uncounted, esp the absentee and early votes... why is that? (she asks childlike!)

Don't bash the PEOPLE... they turned out, they voted overwhelmingly for John Forbes Kerry.

Nancy said this would not be settled overnight, maybe weeks. I, in my naive mind, did not want to believe that when yesterday afternoon the estimates were that the Dems had turned out their base some 130% over last time in some areas, more in others... when our precincts were voting at 90% in some places.

Sally said day or two ago... "the fix is in" --- OMG I thought, that can't be, (again, in childlike manner "the numbers support Kerry")

Okay people... perhaps Mourning Becomes Electra... but this entity is not ready to mourn something so alive and well... the voice of the people... I plan to remain calm... chop wood and carry water today... scrub a floor or two... and look to my LEADER, John Kerry who has not conceded, who is waiting for count to finish. Who says we know the results in a couple of hours? A *ush supporter. In 2000 Jim Baker stepped up and announced dubya the winner and we bought the farm. Last night, the network anchors --- following the lead of their corpo-fascist bosses --- made it appear dubya was LEADING all night... translate that to 'winning'... again an ILLUSION.

I bow to Nancy and Sally... and apologize to myself for my cognitive dissonance... I knew these emachines were 'fixed'... where's the surprise? I naively thought our votes would be counted.

Last thing... I will work today on the illusions I still have about our government. Scorpio Sally has it right... too much quiet from the administration leading up to yesterday... smells.
Remember that old adage dubya had so much trouble saying? fool me once, shame on you. fool me twice, shame on me...

An update from the Guardian:

JFK: 252 (leading in 0)

GWB: 254 (leading in 3)

It's all down to Ohio now.

I really do think this no longer just about Kerry v GWB. It's more Neo-Con Empire v Democratic Republic.

It's not over!

Alright Jo!

Chopping wood, carrying water sounds like a most excellent idea on a day like today!

I really hope I didn't come across as bashing the people (Mercury opp. Pluto/sq. Mars, makes me very popular) - that's definitely not what I am trying to do. It's the people who are being treated so badly by this Corporatist Elite junta.

(By the way, do you still think I'm a freeper? I like to consider myself a spiritual socialist, if anything, and was on the left of the ALP in Oz and the Labour Party here so Kerry is actually a bit too right wing for me. I was actually warming up to give our friendly freeper a good kicking all those weeks ago - I just like to hear their arguments first before I pull them apart. I list my hobbies as music, art, astrology, cooking and conservative bashing{verbally), though I do know a lot of nice conservatives here who are very pleasant and civilised. Anyway, you take care - we're in for a bumpy ride!)

Jase.

Jase,

My comments about bashing the people were not intended to be directed toward you... my brain's not in the best shape this a.m. The first paragraph was meant to thank you, and then I just ran off at the mouth in the second one... a lot of Kossacks are bashing the people, believing that the results reflect the will of the people. Well, that's what you're supposed to believe in a democracy, right? I apologize for not being more clear... I have seen nothing to indicate you are bashing the people.

As for your comment, 'do you think I am a Freeper'? In the past months I have seen Freepers coming out of the woodwork! Honestly, if you were a Freeper, would you be on this site the morning after, trying to give hope? Wouldn't you not be rubbing our nose in it? I apologize for having expressed my suspicions earlier. Joe was giving all of us a difficult time, and you got caught up in my spew against him... my mercury mouth goes off sometimes before I engage my brain or my heart.

So, Jase, I apologize for having called, suggested you are a freeper a few months back. The political manifestations have revealed to me that I have more than a little work to do on my self... [I too know quite a few nice conservatives.] I can be too skeptical at times, connecting dots when they don't even exist. Please forgive me for jumping to conclusions. You are very kind to caution me to take care... you do the same... as most astrologers and political junkies have suggested, we are in for a bumpy ride.

The 12-step program theme of one day at a time seems to be extremely appropriate for me at this time. I was reconciled to having to do a lot of work if a Kerry win had been overwhelming, clear cut and decisive. Nothing has changed in that respect.

Namaste, Jase

About a year ago, I posted that Kerry would maybe lose based on the transiting midpoint Mars/Neptune
conjunct his Sun degree. Bush has Jupiter//Moon and being a Kerry supporter, I was crushed. Well, I am still crushed. In Gar Osten's book the Astrological Horos. of the US, we have prog Venus 180 Saturn in 2006 and Mars retrograde in 2007. Gar Osten says the influence of the church will peak then and Mars rx will begin a trend turning to dictatorship and civil war. We better get out our brown shirts and prepare for the camps. Scotland sounds cool! Lets pack!

Sally.....

From one Scorpio to another: You were right about the smell. Why do we always underestimate? Why are we always relunctant to believe the worst? Why are we so damned good at giving even Bushies some benefit of the doubt, however tiny?

I feel like Marat of the eve of the French Revolution..................

Major fraud is being discussed on DU. The voting results are way off from the exit polls, 5% in bush's favor, where there are no paper trails.

Here is some of it:

We have to spread the word on fraud. It is the only way to fight this. I think they should demand another vote where the exit polls are so off from the voting results, only in paper trail less places of course.

Here is more:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=201x1144

I've compiled evidence of possible EVoting fraud

EDIT:

Analysis of the polling data vs actual data and voting systems supports the hypothesis that evoting may be to blame in the discrepancies. Nevada has evoting but with verified receipts. In that state the Exit Polling matches the actual results within .1% accuracy. However for other swing states Bush has unexplainable leads.

I'm still compiling data. Please help me determine what voting methods are being used in swing states and which are evoting without audit trails. Post your data under the individual state responses below.

-------------------------------------------

Kerry is well ahead in exit polls, but still losing the counts. WTH is going on?

Kerry is well ahead in Exit Polling in Ohio. We're being screwed.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/O ...

Male: 51/49 Kerry 47%
Female: 53/47 Kerry 53%

Dem: 91/8 Kerry 38%
Rep: 94/6 Bush 37%
Ind: 60/39 Kerry 24%

Here is exit polling for Florida (3,824,794 votes for Kerry & Bush)

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/F ...

Male: 52/47 Kerry 46%
Female: 52/48 Kerry 54%

Dem: 86/13 Kerry 38%
Rep: 92/7 Bush 39%
Ind: 60/38 Kerry 23%

3,824,794 votes for Kerry & Bush
2065388 Women (54% of total)
1759405 Men (46% of total)

Bush leads male vote by 5% of M = 87970

Kerry leads female vote by 4% of M = 82615

That means Bush is ahead by just 5355 votes in exit polling in FL.

Another odd thing is that there are more Reps then Dems in Florida by 1%, which is not expected. Either there are more voting Republicans in FL than Democrats, a first and not matching known statistics, or more Republicans were exit polled than Democrats. If the exit poll is off by just 1% that's a difference of 382479 more voters who are Democracts.

The results being posted however show Bush ahead 326,000 actual votes. This is simply not possible from the exit polling numbers. Even skewed for a 5% higher Republican vs. Democrat turnout from 2000, it doesn't add up.

WISCONSIN:

Kerry leads Female voters by 7%, Bush leads male voters by 7%. Male vs. Female voter turnout is 47% M, 53% F. That means Kerry statistically has a 7% edge in exit polling in Wisconsin.

Actual results however show Bush ahead by 1%, an unexplained difference of 8%.

NEVADA:

Just checked, same pattern. Kerry leads in the exit polls by a clear margin, but is still behind in the reported results. This state is even closer. Actual is just 1% favor of Bush. Exit polls show Kerry with a wider margin. Women favored Kerry by 8% here out of 52% of total voters. Men favored Bush by just 6% out of 48% of total voters. Actual reported results don't match exit polling AT ALL in Nevada.

*** KERRY leads by 1.3% in exit polls in NV ***
Exit Polls in Nevada project Kerry leading by just exatly 1.2%.

What is the difference? Nevada has instituded paper ballot receipts for their evoting system. They have a verified AUDIT TRAIL! Other swing states that don't have this are showing skewed results for Bush vs the exit polls. Nevada exit polling however is accurate.

-------
http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99996523

Strauss argues that an electronic recount of this kind itself raises an ethical problem. Only company technicians, rather than election officials, are qualified to fix the software, but then any changes they make are not then re-certified. “A paper recount would have made everyone less queasy,” he says.

This should not be a problem in Nevada, where all the electronic voting machines used on 2 November will be required to produce a paper record of each vote. Voters will then be able to check this paper ballot and drop it in a ballot box. Nevada is the only state to require this, but California and Ohio, among others, will be watching the outcome closely as they intend to move to the same model for elections in 2006.

Can someone determine what percentage of precincts are DIEBOLD or electronic voting machines in these swing states? Of those compare the expected voting results from Male vs. Female against the results reported by electronic vs. non-electronic voting places.

My HYPOTHESIS is we will find a discrepancy in the electronic systems vs. the exit polls and the non-electronic systems.

It makes no sense to me that Bush could come out a winner in this. This afternoon there is a Moon Saturn conjunction. We should watch that and we should watch the Mars Saturn square over the next few days. They should trigger Bush's Saturn return and Saturn square the MC.

Saturn has meant nothing but failure for Bush for the past several weeks. It has been one thing after another. Why should it change course now?

For anyone else who is currently wallowing in the slough of despond, turn on Washington Journal. If we had any doubts about how bad this is going to be, you can listen to the obscene celebration of the fundies. This country has suddenly gotten a whole lot scarier. We are fast-backwarding to the feudal era. The Crusades are next.

I want out! Out of this benighted country!

Scotland sounds very good, so does France.

Canada might be more practical

Teg,

Don't go to the Fundie sites...

We knew the fascists would try to steal this election, and they did... Kerry is not conceding, and we have lawyers all over the country filing lawsuits, etc. We need to stand behind Kerry. we faulted Gore for not standing up to them in 2000 now where are we standing?

Nancy, stay with us please... your info on the transits is useful... your prediction that it would not be settled it accurate.

Sally, stay with us please... your sense of smell is wonderful!

The kossacks are losing it... ready to hand a win over to the fascists. Many on this board are giving in way too early!!! Get a grip people! We knew this would not be over on Nov. 3... evidence is mounting that there was massisve voter fraud. Heck, if the colonists had given up so easily, we would all be speaking better English now, and having high tea in the afternoon!

This is the time we have been called for... now is the time for all men to come... well, you know the rest... THIS IS THE TIME... and it will not pass next week or the next, it will be a long haul... so, chop wood, carry water... meditate and pray for John Forbes Kerry and John Edwards to have the strength for the next weeks... and DON'T give the fundies a quarter... smile and say it's not over yet...

I didn't work my butt off the last 47 months to lay down the gauntlet at this early stage. How 'bout you? Check this website out...

http://blackboxvoting.org

And eat chocolate....lots of it (said with a weak and trembling smile). Where do I sign up for 08?

Another astrological point: the Mercury Uranus square is coming on Saturday. Transiting Uranus is currently quincunx Bush's location Ascendant in DC. Could this mean a sudden shift? And by Monday, Saturn turns retrograde and strats heading back to Bush's natal Saturn and squaring his MC. could things start to go downhill for him at that point?

Nancy -

I began to smell a boatload of rats when the election results didn't jive with the exit polling and the prior tracking polls (Zogby's in particular). By the afternoon it was clear that the exit polls were showing a Kerry sweep, and based on the *sh attitudes it seemed they were taking things very seriously. I believe that the fix was in at that point.

During the evening, I began to hear the news reports downplaying the significance of exit polling; however, exit polls (including the defunct VNS) have very accurately predicted the outcome of races for decades. In 2000 the VNS was dispensed with when there were reported "glitches" and in 2002, Zogby's exit polls predicted pickups for the Dems in state-local races that didn't materialize (and analysis of the results showed such skewing of votes in traditionally Dem districts as to raise serious alarms). Then, after discrediting the exit polls, the so-called pundits started saying that the results of their exit polls reflected that the overwhelming majority of voters said that 'traditional moral values' was their most important criteria in selecting the president. WTF. Just how all these supposedly 'moral' people could overlook all the lies that went into taking this country to war with a nation that never represented a threat to us, and all the other outrages is beyond me.

Although I am devastated for this country, Kerry and Edwards should consider themselves well out of this. With the Congress in the hands of the rethugs and the irrepairable damage(for probably the next several decades) this misadministration has created, a Dem pres/vp would not have been able to govern effectively, and they would not have been allowed to. They would be dumped out in four years with the blame for what is about to happen to this country.

I felt in the last couple of weeks that Kerry really had a shot. I think he probably won had vote suppression and outright theft not been a factor. I would have been overjoyed, but I think his life would have been hell on earth. And sometimes you don't wish such calamity on a person (except *sh who deserves richly everything that is about to be dumped on him).

I believe the people of this country have been played for the fools they are. I've felt that for the rethugs to be finally kicked to the curb, things would have to really go to hell in a handbasket - and I think they're about to. I'm crushed and disturbed, but the rethugs have made this country - for the foreseeable future - all but ungovernable by anyone but con men like themselves. They won't last forever. They can't. We just need to bide our time.

Greetings all. I went to bed last night with a terrible resignation and a realization that they (* and co) may have done it again.

This morning I am heartened to hear that Kerry has not folded. Let us continue to send him positive energy -- he needs it right now more than ever!

There are a lot of voter fraud allegations coming forward - let's hope that Michael Moore and other activists stay on this. I agree with the notion that "It ain't over 'til the fat lady sings" - and in my mind that will happen when JFK concedes, and not until.

Anybody have an idea of what we here can do to push this idea -- out to the greater consciousness?

To echo the sentiments of many others, this website has been my anchor through this election season - each and every one of you here has shared wisdom, joy and the edgy defiance of the unbeaten...may you continue to do so - whether from USA or Scotland or Canada or (under contemplation here) Mexico.

Blessings to all here - light and healing to Kerry/Edwards, KM

Nancy, what do the transits look like at the end of this 2-3 week period of, well, I'm tired and people seem to like it when I swear, so - BULLSHIT? Do K/E transits look more favorable than those of He whom I hate with every cell in my body?

Kerry has called Bush to conceed.

11:05 am EST, Boston, Mass.

I am already looking up the words to the

Horst Wessel Song (Lied).

For those born after 1945 it was the song the

Nazi soldiers sang in the Pubs

I just have a hard time believing or understanding that we as a country would choose intolerance, fear and exclusion as a way of life. My Republican boss is treating this as a done deal for Bush and apologized to me this morning as well as expressing his surprise that Kerry didn't win. I hope Kerry doesn't fold. I hope he challenges everything that doesn't smell right.

Kerry is to concede. I am just disgusted, that's all I can say.

So much for astrology. Maybe it's just our own bias being read into it.

One last thought...in the event that Kerry does go down (early or late), I think we all have a good handle on what happened. There appears to be consensus that there has been fraud, and that with Congress now even more solidly in their grasp the Repgs will wreak unholy havoc both here and abroad. While I am a fighter, I also have come to learn that when the Universe is in the process of teaching a lesson, acceptance is the ONLY response that works.

Just wanted to be clear - cuz these are both valid and valuable positions: Fight while there's a chance to effect change, but know when to start meditating on the lesson that is coming at you like a freight train (unfortunately, too many of mine have been exactly like that!). Remember that there is something pretty haywire with the national collective consciousness(look at the number of people continuing to support the b*s). May take a freight train to get its attention.

Just MHO.

KM

WHAT? Are you saying Kerry conceeded?

My daughter just called to report the concession. I am stunned.

What lesson is coming to us, KM? In your opinion, that is....you haven't actually said what that means to you.... What lesson? That fear is a good way to control people? I don't think the lesson is one we would like to "accept" quite frankly.....to me it seems the lesson is this: politics is about winning at all costs
. Is it one that we will support at all costs?

I'm not stunned ..I'm mad as hell. I thought John Kerry was going to fight the good fight and it seems to me he has left the sinking ship first. I smell a rat ... a big one.

Yes, Kerry is said to have conceeded. Considering all the questions raised about the exit polls being so far from the vote tallies, I have to wonder why so soon?

This is my first post on this site which I have been following--since I have an interest in political astrology.

In fairness, do you know of any astrologers who have been predicting ( and publically advocating) a Bush win ? That would provide a counterpoint to consider as far as astrology --"reading bias into it".

Kerry has conceded. He didn't have much choice.

We accepted the electronic machines too willingly. I say that, yet I know they were placed in GOP strongholds: i.e., our strong GOP county here in South Carolina... to provide the extra boost to offset those counties with a paper trail.

Okay. What do we do now? We know now that they have 'four more years' they will really take their masks off... the draft, more theft of the treasury, abolishment of the social security and medicare and public education...

They have even more control in Senate and House.
Forget elections in 2008. Forget free and honest elections ever again in this country. For sure people will not turnout to vote.

Are we mourning the death of democracy? The rise of fascism?

I'm talking aloud and I apologize. We are all in pain... shock for me, after the great feeling I had the last week and especially about 2:00 yesterday when the market went down after hearing of the exit polls and voter turnout... they were expecting a Kerry win...

Susan, your post rings true. The fundies will have to suffer under these fascists before they realize what has happened to America. Problem with that scenario is the rest of us are tied to them, as is the planet.

Wait one minute... I'm not doing my 'one day at the time' --- scratch all my concerns above. I will concentrate on the Now, on the 'Ah so' of the Buddhist monk. It's all an illusion anyway, right? This thing we call 'reality'?

Part of me wants to pull the covers over my head; another part wants to remain calm in gale force winds. Will be interesting to see which wins the battle. And there's no chocolate in the house!

Light to all...

I'm also thinking that astrology predictions are totally unreliable as well - astro or vedic or whatever it all pointed to Bush getting his Saturn return .. and he always comes up smelling like a rose. The next four years are going to be hell and I don't care what astrology says he will bypass it all and never reap what he has sown. Sorry to be so negative but it's been a long four years and nothing due this man has ever, ever come to pass. I'm fed up, tired and disgusted and I don't think too highly of John Kerry right now for bailing without a good fight. So much for the Swift Boat Captain.

This is Pluto. Think about that.

It's the machines, along with human slight of hand.

A very wise astrologer told me that, "The descendant was sitting right on Kerry's Saturn, T Moon was conj. T Saturn, he got depressed and figured there was nothing to do. Pity."

We shall see what comes now, but you can be sure it will be death and rebirth.

I'm sorry to say that I lost my race. Our district had two counties. One of them was close (within a few hundred votes) and in the other which is much more conservative we lost by about 4000 votes. Actually my candidate was releived. Several other good democrats lost in Michigan, and it would be no fun being in the legislature right now.

This election has been a disaster for this nation. I am utterly devastated. A wise friend of mine recently told me that maybe Bush winning is part of a larger plan. He specifically referred to the 2012 phenomenon and we discussed the possibility of global revoluntion. Right now though, my thoughts are not for the future, but for what has happened today. Today our coutry became a Christian nation. Today our country became a rogue, in our own eyes and in the eyes of others. Today our country endorsed and enable a racist, homophobic, mysoginist, lying, torturing, fear-mongering, extremist who wants to transform the nation in his own image. Not only endorsed him, enabled him.

History is usually written by the victors. Whomever prevails in the long-run, I believe that this election will be remembered as the point of no return.

I'm with you, Siobhan. I'm just too stunned, too bamboozled right now.

I always felt that, even if the odds weren't against Kerry, at least the planets were. I see now that Bush had way too much money, too much power, too many plans behind him to let it pass to someone else. And they succeeded.

Once my head clears and I learn to accept the grey dawn, my thoughts are going to gravitate to: what's next? Where do we go from here?

When will they start the draft? I've read that it will probably be around January of next year. This will probably coincide with plans to invade Syria or Iran next.

Well, I do have a contingency plan........

I think we have witnessed the end of America as we were taught to know it. Brave New World.... you will NEED to be brave in this new world.

I'm with Lucy......sometimes civility just doesn't cut it.

Those of us in Manhattan (and DC and NJ too) were the ones who suffered the brunt of 9/11. We took it seriously. We wanted a response that was rational and effective. We are all blue states.

All I can say is that I hope bin Laden keeps his promise to leave the blue states out of it next time. Since the red states are so all-fired anxious to play "mine is bigger than yours" and kill 100's of thousands of people "so we don't have to fight them over here", I just hope the next battle is in their own damned back yards. Then perhaps they can see up close and personal where their godly and idolised Bush has taken them.

Theocracies are not pretty, and we're three-quarters of the way there.

Teresa........, last Theursday I bought a 9-inch double dark chocolate cake. As of last night about 8 pm I finished it. Alas, it didn't help at all....even with the whipped cream and walnuts and mandarin orange additions. And now I'm too sick and distraught even to eat.

I actually found myself in tears for a minute talking to a friend thes morning. Cry, the Beloved Country, I guess.

Like Jo, I'm fluctuating between wanting to continue the fight and deep depression. Right now depression is winning. I think it's more because my hopes were so high that Kerry would win. I really believed he would and now to give in with hardly a wimper is just more than I can handle right now. I can only think of my nephews being forced into uniform, the further erosion of our civil rights, privatization of social security (which to me reads a loss since I don't understand how to invest), and the continued escalation of health care costs. Obama is the only bright spot I've seen.

Although I still (perhaps foolishly?) think Kerry has something up his sleeve, I must admit that I feel a bit bamboozeled by astrolgoy right now. I believed it in 2002 when astrologers were predicting McBride to beat Jeb in Florida and etc. and so on. That didn't happen, but I thought 'what the heck, I'll see how 2004 turns out.' And here I sit, confused even more so by transits and how planets interact with each other and just what astrology MEANS! It was supposed to be really bad for Bush, and yet he got the Popular Vote! Kerry's transits were supposed to indicate a good mood with the transits of those in the Administration indicating a bad mood. What happened?

I still can't quite see Kerry conceding that quickly. Perhaps there's something afoot here that we don't know. Something he needs to move out of the way of in order for the process to work. I don't know. All I know is I have egg on my face with all those friends who trusted me when I said Kerry's transits looked good on Election Night and Chimpy's looked horrible.

I'm venting. Sorry. Perhaps America being forced under the yolk of Christian Oppression is what it'll take for the Sheeple to wake up and start becoming proactive. And Christian Oppression is definitely where we're going to find ourselves very soon if the Universe doesn't do SOMETHING ... and QUICK!!!

The Christians have a saying they like to quote from the Bible, "Be in the world but not of the world". Well, now I feel like I'm in the United States but not of the United States. I have no children that will go to war and I'm not poor. So the next 4 years of Bush will probably not affect me or my husband that much. I never thought social security would be there for us anyway. But I feel sick that the fundamentals have so much control of this country. I am going to stop watching the news and stop my newspaper subscription. I can't stand to look at George Bush, read his words, or hear his voice. I do not plan to vote in 2008. There is no reason to. I cannot see any light anywhere when so many people are condemning us to their version of hell.

Some astrologists did predict that Bush would win. Hey, Sylvia Browne the psychic predicted it since last year. I was just hoping that the ones that said Kerry would win were right.

The fundamentalists deserve what they are going to get. Just too bad the rest of us will be along for the ride.

Dave, I'm sorry about your guy losing the election but you put up the good fight and that is what counts. Cliss, I'm thinking I need a contingency plan too. I live surrounded by Fundies and the churches are already having big celebrations tonight to thank "their" God for standing on their side. Going to be sheer hell for the rest of us here that don't celebrate with them. My faith in astrology has been shaken as I don't think I could believe fully in whatever is said anymore as this whole thing has just been opposite to everything predicted. These right wing people cannot be stopped from this point on and we are the last of those that will remember a time when freedom and votes and democracy really meant something. We are going back to the darkness for sure. The very people we thought would bring us light have conceded to the darkness by giving up .. now "They" know they can win from now on no matter what. The death bell is ringing to day for democracy and there is no new Purple Heart for John Kerry today. I'm off to have a good cry.

Dave, so many of us will agree with your words. And I thought about it....will we be wandering in the wilderness for another 40 years? Your words are wise...and I too, had an astrologer say that it is the way it is supposed to be for a bigger plan....that I was naive. And the lesson is?
We are so attuned to 'getting a lesson'....NO, we need to find out what the problem is, first....and the problem is exactly as Dave just described it....and we are now wandering in the wilderness....

Well cripes, we lost that battle. Is our war over to regain control of our government from the neofascists? No it isn't. This is one hell of a long Pluto transit it is reshaping America and its people and the course of our nation. George may have engineered another 'steal', with the caca sitting at his doorstep impeachment is the next front. Reorganize and fight on. I'm disgusted but I am no quitter. A country divided and rushing headlong to disaster. Americans have to stay loud and active, let no Bush position go unchallenged. Continue to hound the news outlets, voice our discontent, stop Patriot II. People can sure make it a miserable four more years.

Jonathan, I like you am confused, depressed and dissappointed about astrology and our nation's choice. I want to remain under the covers and cry my heart out. I just don't know.

I tried to console myself by thinking, "Thank goodness, I live in Manhattan." But that is of little comfort, since the laws, policies and Supreme Court choices will effect everyone, where ever we live.

Maybe the Neptune aspect affected us and not Bush, in that we deluded ourselves into thinking Kerry would win. I just don't know anything anymore.

"I'm crushed and disturbed, but the rethugs have made this country - for the foreseeable future - all but ungovernable by anyone but con men like themselves. They won't last forever. They can't. We just need to bide our time."

Personally, I hope this doesn't last for the whole thirty years that the US Progressed Sun is in Pisces. If it does, we are truly screwed.

As for the "comment" of "so much for astrology," there were astrological indicators all the way that this election could have gone either way, that Kerry might lose, or that it would be stolen from him.

The timing of Kerry's announcement for President (VOC moon, I read somewhere), the timing of his nomination at the convention (the roll call started on a VOC moon; Ohio put him over the top when the moon was still void), the moon conjunct Bushy's Sun on election night, with Jupiter and Venus in favorable aspect to his ascendant, and Mercury trine Saturn, and finally, Pluto approaching an opposition to Kerry's moon, all indicated the possibility of this outcome.

Kerry had some favorable aspects, too, as we all know; if machines hadn't been rigged, it could have gone his way. Because both candidates had similarly favorable transits, the election was close, and even the best astrologers had trouble predicting the outcome.

Most of them knew the political realities, of fear in the electorate, and the exportation of Florida to any state with Republican operatives in charge; I think the planets probably have something to say about that, too.

I only hope that this is not a long-lasting trend, and that, if we can't stop this hijacking of our country, that these radicals will somehow find a way to stop themselves. Right now, that may be our only hope.

Janet,

I, too, live in Manhattan, but the policies and laws that Bush et al. will put into place will be horrific for anyone who isn't white, male or Christian. Or rich.

I still think that Kerry has something up his sleeve. Something he knows that we don't. Remember that Gore called to concede and then took it back. Perhaps Kerry won't concede at 1 PM EST? Perhaps he's letting the White House think they've got it in the bag so he can catch them flat-footed with some jaw-dropping news that will change the playing field in Ohio or Florida?

Or maybe I'm just a completely blind (not cock-eyed) optimist that doesn't accept defeat too easily.

Something about Kerry conceding that quickly just doesn't pass the "smell test", as Sally put it. Have to wait and see, I guess.

Responding to Suji and others who do not understand bias vs prediction, it the method not the bias if you are a good astrologer. Again, I hate the shrub but on election night, Jupiter was parallel his natal moon! Kerry had the nasty failure midpoint, Mars/Neptune conjuct his sun degree. As a cosmobiologist, I do not suffer from a lack of dynamics to examine. Back in 1992, Clinton had Sun/Jupiter conjuct Jupiter! Bush also has Jupiter on the 4th, Just like Clinton and just like OJ Simpson. Getting away with murder is what Jupiter says! My only hope is Bush will suffer when Saturn slides down his asc next Sept. Australia looks good from here.

Kerry has called Bush to concede???? Is this a sell-out by Kerry or what? Must be that skull and bones secret brotherhood thing. Hummpphh.

We're all grieving... and we're at different stages of the process... some angry, some still weeping, some reaching for resolution... some resolved... just remember it's not a linear process, we waver back and forth between the stages.

Talking is healthy... even talking too much, like I am... but I recognize I have to find other places to dump my angst... otherwise, this lovely site will be overwhelmed with my chatter...

Still to close, to much in shock to take inventory. I am being kind to myself today... still in my nightgown, feeling teary-eyed and finally allowing them to fall... the floors can wait... my psyche needs comfort now, and whatever gets one through the night...

Again, thanks to all --- love and light to all ---
KM, your soul is a wise one. Acceptance is a good thing... I'm just not there yet... the freight train is actually still down track... it hasn't arrived, but it will... so contingency plans are necessary... but then, there is really no place to go... as we are 'here'... there is no 'there'. So, I must honor my soul's agenda... whether I like it or not... I signed up for it sometime ago.

While talking to a Black man about my age Monday I realized how protected we white people have been, from injustice. I see now that they have 'lost' many 'elections'... I wore my dream catcher earrings yesterday, thought about the Native Americans and the injustices they have suffered. Thought about my adopted daughter whose date of birth is January 22, 1973 --- Roe v. Wade, and the many women who have died due to bungled abortions... and then I quickly thought that while we were all focused on the election Iraqis were dying and Africans were dying. We have no cause for tears. The 'America' we believe in never existed for any of them. What makes us think we're so damn special?

Move on. That's all we can do. But let's don't bash astrology or free elections or the people --- it's part of our journey... let's grieve and then put one foot in front of the other. What else is there?

Love and light to all.

I'm recalling what Sally wrote a few threads back about the possibility of Bush winning. There was also something about Bush not making it through, that fate was going to intervene and he would not make it past January....something to that effect.

I'll see if I can find it. You could be right, Sally, in that our country needs to learn some more lessons yet.

I'm also recalling Nostradamus' quatrain about 'Bouche', 'Bouche, blood-stained, lying face-down'.

Also, K.N. Rao, the Vedic astrologer (see Journal of Astrology on the right hand side of this web site) predicted a Bush win (one of the few). He said he saw 'great joy' in Cheney's chart. Great. How wonderful.

Penny, please don't not vote....it is what sunk the democrats after 1968...and led to the rise of the right. Democrats boycotted Hubert Humphrey....they killed their own goose and started the rise of the repukes. We have to keep on voting. But we can also stop participating or giving money to companies that are major political supporters of the Bushistas. It will take research....but we can share what we know, also. Don't forget, in terms of everyone being depressed by astrological predictions gone awry, what astrology has always said: we have free will. The stars can predict but not IMPELL us to do their bidding. But little godmonsters can....man can IMPELL....and looks like one of them has. Do we need to examine this chart of Bush's to see what his role is in the bigger picture? We have definitely entered a new world....be brave.

I wish I had financial security....Teresa, I hear you....I lost everything under the first king Geo....and I am near flat broke with no work now. I looked forward to a return to normalcy financially....I don't know what to do now.

Also, my son in law reports that people are saying to him that Democrats didn't support Kerry because they want Hillary to run in 2008....I think the freepers are spreading lies again.

My room mate/best friend wants to meet with me to discuss relocating to Paris. He's serious! And so am I. Sad that the Fundies could drive me from the country of my birth, but isn't that how it is throughout History? People feeling a sense of displacement due to having the "wrong beliefs"?

Morgana, I've been saying this on this site for the longest time: It's difficult to fight the good fight if the corporate media, the gate keepers, will not announce the fight. The corporate media has been bought and paid for, and they have pimped and will continue to pimp for this administration. I think we need to stop deluding ourselves that our voices can get out. It CAN'T. The small outlets that will allow us to air our grievances don't have a mass listenership nor readership.

The proof that we are not getting our message out because of the media, 50% of our country BELIEVE that WMD was found in Iraq, or that those weapons exist.

Maybe tomorrow I'll be in a better mood, but today, reality bites and I'm not blinded by the Neptunian fog.

Maybe Kerry will be replacing Cheney as VP? Heheheheh. Well, it is true that politics makes strange bedfellows.

In the two Clinton elections, there were very strong Venus Sun aspects. In the first Bush election, there was a very strong Venus Sun and Venus Moon aspect. In this election, Bush has a ton of Saturn. The pattern is completely off. Perhaps if I had made a study of all the presidents, I would have seen a different pattern, or no pattern. I based my prediction on the seeming pattern of the past three elections, which apparently was not enough.

The coming Inaugural chart is a hard one. I had worried about Kerry dealing with it. Now I can exult that Bush and the GOP will get total credit for all that comes in the next four years. At least it is less belligerent than this past 4 years, but Saturn on the IC is not good. I had also wondered about the Neptune square to the Ascendant which didn't make sense for Kerry but sure makes sense with Bush. More lies, obfuscation, and propaganda as a way of life.

I apologize to all who feel misled by my predictions. I thought this one was very clear. I still haven't made sense of it. I'm not sure where to go from here.

Kerry conceded at 11:05am in Boston. The descendant was right on his Saturn, T Moon was coming to a conjunction to T Saturn, he just became depressed and overwhelmed.

As I've said before, the next 8 years are going to be very difficult for the US and the period of time we lose as a super-power because we are not done with our transformation. I said to a friend on Monday "if we actually cared about John Kerry, we would hope he doesn't win." The majority of people in Germany did not know or understand what they were signing on to when they elected Hitler, and neither do we.

For awhile I would expect people to go into anger and or depression. Sink into fear and anxiety but that will not help us. Slowly there will be groups spring up that will fight this "going into the good night" that the Repugs would like, we need to look for and get involved in some of those. Looking at the exit polls leaves hardly any doubt that this election was as fraud

Values was the number one thing people voted for in this election, abortion and gay rights. 42 percent of Americans consider themselves born again or evangelical Christians.

There will be a day when the majority of Americans will say "what happened?" There has been one shocking scandal after the other over the last 4 years and only half this country cared, if that many. It remains to be seen if they care about the upcoming scandals. The day will come when the least of our concerns will be the conservative justice system.

We as liberals need to do a lot of work to get our message out. We need to continue to support our media connections, we need to look around and tap the younger generation, we need to stay alert and above all "get involved."

Before we get too steeped in depression and everyone was wrong, try to remember it was the machines and try not to give your power and fear over to this mess.

of course it's depressing as hell, and no apologies are necessary Nancy, you sweetheart. I was going to post this awhile back, but maybe now is a better time: (food for thought) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Recent events reflect a battle that could derail the Rothschilds' plan for a Third World War by 2012, according to British-based Intelligence analyst Tim Rifat.

The Rothschilds temporarily have lost control of both Russia and the United States.

In the case of Russia, Rifat says recent Chechen terrorist attacks on two airliners and a school were designed to punish and undermine Vladimir Putin for his interference with Rothschild oil giant Yukos.

Putin has banished a number of "oligarchs" and seized their assets. According to Rifat, the oligarchs are all Rothschild fronts.

Rifat says the British government and MI-6 are under Rothschild control and financing Chechen resistance. He predicts Putin will be assassinated within two years.

In the USA, Dick Cheney and the Joint Chiefs are behind U.S. defiance of the Rothschild agenda. This is the explanation for the investigation of Ahmed Chalabi and Pentagon analyst Larry Franklin for passing secrets to Iran and Israel respectively. Both men are part of the Neo-Con Rothschild Zionist apparatus in Washington and their treatment sends a message to
their supervisors, Richard Perle, Douglas Feith, Eliot Abrams and Paul Wolfowitz.

Georgia Democratic Senator Zell Miller's address to the Republican National Convention also should be seen in this context. He accused John Kerry of compromising American sovereignty by deferring to the[Rothschild-controlled]United Nations.

Rifat says that if the Bushies are re-elected, the NeoCons could be in trouble. Thus the Rothschild number one priority is to elect John Kerry in November and there is no telling what they may do.

If they were willing to sabotage planes and take children hostage to undermine Vladimir Putin, would they cause mayhem to undermine George Bush? Mossad agents have been arrested for a variety of suspicious activities in the US. Or might they crash the stock market using surging oil prices as an excuse? Remember what happend to the US economy in 1992 after Bush's father demurred on Israeli loan guarantees.

The Zionist dominated US TV networks will pull out all stops to get Kerry elected while trying to appear impartial. On Wednesday the NBC nightly news showed film clips which caught Dick Cheney lying about his claim of Sadaam Hussein's involvement with Al Queda. Such enterprize on the part of the networks is rare and has a political purpose.

Rifat believes that if Bush gets elected, the US will attack Iran as soon as next year. He says Kerry will give Iran time to prepare for a global nuclear war, designed to destroy the U.S., Iran and Israel. So while the immediate outcome of a Kerry victory will be a few more years of peace, the ultimate result will be disastrous for the US.

Rifat says Cheney-Bush represents US global hegemony while Kerry represents Rothschild hegemony. If we believe him, and that's a big IF, patriots might have to hold their nose and vote for George W. Bush.

Then we will have to convince him not to attack Iran and to recognize that Islam is not the threat.

Rifat is a veteran Rothschild watcher. He is also a leading expert in "remote viewing."

I am not endorsing his views but offering them to you as a possible explanation for recent and future events. Make up your own mind.

By Henry Makow Ph.D.
September 03, 2004

While I am devastated by this and all it's ramifications, I cannot help remembering what Sally said all along. That if he got in again he wouldn't last a year and would be the most reviled pResident in history. That the mess would be his to clean up and not on a dems plate. I think it is easy to forget that there is a bigger plan in the works here. These people NEED everything that is going to be visited upon them. They are determined to have the lesson.

Astrology is like coming up to a mud puddle. You can jump over it, walk around it or wade right through the mud. Astrology doesn't control the choice, it tells you what the scenario is and leaves it up to you to choose. Obviously the American people have chosen to wade through the mud. What the astrologers here and elsewhere told us is what should be, but if people don't want a better world or truth to prevail, then they allow fear to make the choice.

And yes, as I asked myself last night and this morning, why do we have to pay the price for their blindness. Well, nobody ever said being enlightened was fun, but you chose to see the truth so stand by it. Don't forget that these are the very same people who but a scant 140 years ago thought it good and Godly to enslave a people in chains and were willing to shed blood and fight to the death for that.

This is a pivotal moment for each of and each must ask themselves what they truly believe and if one sound beating is all it takes to make us buckle and run. No judgement here because this morning Canada looks pretty good to me.

But before I reject everything I have believed in for so long I am going to wait and see how this plays out in the next year. We may have won with this *ush victory and just don't know it yet.

I love all of you fabulous beings here, unconditionally---and I found this link to be somewhat of a soothing balm....
this guy wrote this before the "election" and is a Kerry supporter--it's an eye-opening prediction, saying that in effect, by winning, BC may be reaping their karma........didn't one of our own great minds here say that in an earlier post?

love and truth--they matter now more than ever--white light to all....

http://www.astrologyforthesoul.com/presrace.html

Nancy,

Please don't feel the need to apologize. You always couched whatever predictions you made with the caveat that astrology is an imperfect science dealing with energy and how it's used ... or something like that. I certainly don't blame you or hold you accountable. That would be unfair and silly! I'm just struggling to understand astrology and how the planets work together. These political predictions, I thought, would be a good tool. But they're not because it's hard to take theft, stupidity and short-sightedness into account.

I had forgotten your words about the Inauguration Chart. And now that the Repugs have even more power, when the country goes to hell in a handbasket and the people look to assign blame, there's only one party standing. My hope (and this is where I become masochistic) is that the Repugs will be so greedy and stretch their tentacles so far that they end up forever hurting themselves as a Party and the People, even the stupid ones, have a hard time trusting them again.

But, no, Nancy, your talent and your sincerity and your contribution to this Site and our continuing studies of astrology are not to be apologized for.

Feeling really heavy right now and sad. However, through all of this, I am so glad all of you have been here. When I need to see things from a larger perspective I seek out channelings as well as astro information. Here is an interesting one from an entity known as Michael:

http://7paths.com/
OCTOBER ENERGY REPORT EXCERPT (from Michael):

October “officially” begins the “season of the Chief Negative Feature.” Stubbornness and Martyrdom are the prevalent energies that appear to be patterning the Election, Holidays, and general state of shared consciousness. October through December is the time in which a general emphasis is on processing the group fears of a population for the year-to-date.

Stubbornness is the Fear of Change (the Fear of Anything New) while Martyrdom is the Fear of Losing Control of Space (the Fear of Being a Victim). With these fears securely in place within the shared reality of the United States, the upcoming Election and Holidays looks to be a challenging transition.

At this point, we see two major probabilities:

1) The current momentum continues with surprisingly few efforts to change it, leading to several scenarios of dramatic repercussion;

2) A drastic, dramatic, sudden, and monumental event occurs, moving everyone in a surprising new direction before December.

We do not see very many options where Change occurs without some kind of “surprise” or dramatic impact. We will discuss this in more detail as November draws closer.

END EXCERPT
In our NYC Local Groups, people have asked regularly about the election and Michael has continued to state that the favor was for Bush because of the current state of fear and emphasis on victimization (Stubbornness and Martyrdom, strongly in place). The first probability seems to mean that nothing would change (Bush stays in office), but the impact of this will bring very dramatic results (yeah, the squashing of women’s, gay, and minority Rights, along with a massive civil or world war!?) The second probability seems to mean that whoever wins something much unexpected and shocking will pivot the situation before December (an assassination? A recount? I don’t know…)--Troy Trolley

Gina, your comment about the coming 30 years of the progressed horoscope for the USA being in Pisces piqued my interest. Uranus also being in Pisces for the next 6 years adds another emphasis...and then we have Neptune after that. What more pointed a road sign do we need? This is about Christianity, spirituality....those transits will all be working together, right? Look what happened when all the planets were in Capricorn in the early 90's....totalitarian states began to collapse. Will the jihad of religion embroil the world, not just the US in a blistering transformation?

Nancy, no need to apologize. You gave us your heart and valuable time, and I for one love you for that.

One more comment, regarding Sioban's observation that, even with Bush in his second Saturn return, Bush always seems to come out smelling like a rose.

Two or three things to remember: 1) coming out smelling like a rose is in Bush's natal chart. I believe Jupiter conjunct his moon is the indicator. That has a lot to do with why so many people can't stand him, but there's not much we can do about that aspect.

2) Nixon won 49 states and then was out of office within two years. I'm not saying that will happen now, with Republicans firmly in control--but there is more than one way that GWB could find himself unable to finish this term, or the next.

3) With our democracy hijacked, there is the possibility of them repealing the constitutional amendment that limits the president to two terms. Well, as I have said in previous posts, the moon is void at noon on January 20, 2009. One way or another, there's a strong possibility that Bush won't finish his term, whether it's this one, or the next. Let's hope it's sooner rather than later. ;-)

Look,
If astrology was fail-safe-it would be a mainstream way of making predictions and Rove would use it. I tend toward astrology as being valid in the larger sense, but we don't have all the facts and it is still an infant science that is likely to be found more intuitional-spiritual than mundane.

I'm depressed about the Kerry loss since I truly beleive that the Bush win involved shenanigans with the voting machines. I read about it being possible, but that's all I did. Read.

Still, instead of blubbering about it, throwing my hands up in the air in despair and hiding in bed, I'm not going to become a quiet statistic. Suppose the average Germans who stood resigned or helpless and watched Nazism form around them could go back in time knowing what they know now...

It's only human to mourn for a time the loss of a hoped for outcome or ideal. BUT-losing followed by giving up is acceding to inner fears. That's the hoped for outcome of the Ridiculous Right for "Liberals".

I timidly return to put in my two cents....I am shattered but not surprised. I read Claudia, Michael Lutin, Wolfstar, Richard Nolle and many others,. All predicted Bush...it was only here, in this faith based community, that the prevailing belief was that Bush would go down. Every time I entered here and tried to ask a question or point out an opposing point of view I was firmly and quickly put in my place. I tried again and again to remind everyone that facing reality was necessary...I said it early and often.

I am sorry for you grief. I share it. It would have been a lot less painful if all here had taken the time to entertain all the possibilities....not just the ones they liked.

Gina, your comment about the coming 30 years of the progressed horoscope for the USA being in Pisces piqued my interest. Uranus also being in Pisces for the next 6 years adds another emphasis...and then we have Neptune after that. What more pointed a road sign do we need? This is about Christianity, spirituality....those transits will all be working together, right? Look what happened when all the planets were in Capricorn in the early 90's....totalitarian states began to collapse. Will the jihad of religion embroil the world, not just the US in a blistering transformation?

Nancy, your predictions as well as everyone else's included qualifying statements which I know I personally kind of glossed over. I only wanted to hear that Bush would be defeated. We all know that astrology is as much an art as a science and open to subjective interpretation. We all wanted to hear of Bush going down. We didn't hear the "but" in the analysis. My quip above was just extreme sadness and disappointment. I'm more concerned now in the effet Neptune may have had on my own cognitive abilities. Can I trust my own instincts anymore?

I know that we're all grieving this morning, especially people like Dave & Pallas 18 who put themselves into this election 110% And, of course, Sally, Nancy, Morgana, Isabelle who have been knocking themselves out looking for all of this to materialize in the way that we think is best for the country and the world - a result that would further us on the spiritual path, not the "religous" path. (Religion isn't always bad but I can't fatham those who take the Bible and Koran literally in every way, when these books were written by men).

I'm going to try to stay open though. I keep thinking about the MichaelMandeville website and his prediction that things are not going to turn out as expected at all.

Let's see!

Love,
Sharon

It would have been a lot less painful if all here had taken the time to entertain all the possibilities....not just the ones they liked.

Posted by Anne at November 3, 2004 05:21 PM

See my note re Deepak Chopra above.

It's been real, folks, but I believe I'll get back to my life now. Best to all of ya. Keep those home fires burning, and don't forget:

judge no man until you have walked a mile in his moccasins.

OG

Does anybody know if Kerry is still a Senator? Or did he give up his seat to run?

I'd like to thank all of you, at this site, for giving the most up-lifting, most informative direction and insights, to a lot of us, you never hear from.
During these past long months, Astroworld has been, almost daily, the source of encouragement,
enlightenment, and in-your-face truth ! , about what was going on.
I've felt your elation, your disgust, your amazement at this administration & their attitudes,and abilities to scare-to-death, democracy in this country.
In the wee hours, I sat & cried with you.
Please, all of you, keep up your awesome interpretations of how we, and this country are being affected.
I'm hoping a re-count, shows the rethug's dirty dealings. Those "smirks" will be plastered on their faces, like Batman's Jokers, till SOMEone swipes them off.
The numbers just don't make sense.
And,,,, I have a question.
If our ballots are secret,,,, how do the "counters" know if a vote was cast by a woman,- man, - certain race, - - - -
Early, last evening, beside a candidate's name, were "percentages".
[ # of ] votes, & 47% were female - - 20% were black / Hispanic / ,,,,,,,,,,
Why do they know that ?
And, if they have such information, just from our punched-out cardboard,,,,, - wouldn't
that, then, be extremely easy to "discard" pieces of unwanted paper ? And electronic voting is simply a joke.
Thank you all for letting us "hear" your comments, & for the "links" to other information.
Maybe we just have to wait a little longer,,,,,,, - for the fear-filled, hate-filled christians, who actually think Georgie goes to church, (oh yeh, he doesn't have to, he IS a god)- to get a taste of their own beliefs. -
Uh-oh,, better stop. I feel some nasty thoughts wanting to jump onto the page,,,,,,,
Love & Light - PLEASE !

Dear Friends, along with you I grieve and can't stop crying today. Is Democracy in the idealistic sense dead? Justice too?
I know I was awakened in these past 4 years. Mostly felt huge awakenings starting from the Venus Occulation (June 8) and on.
I will ALWAYS vote! I believe in democracy and justice. They exist within and without.
Remember what I told the freeps, that I meet thousands of children a year. My goddess energy of love and nature will get them early.
They will learn the power of words and how to read between the lines and know true power lies within. The grownups of this country act pathetic, addicted, dumb, and brainwashed.
I feel sorry for that, but I"m off to meet as many children as I can. My causes have only just begun. I'm staying here and going into the inner city and will meet as many children as I can.

WOW!! I went off to compose this response for Judi (her question upthread) and look at what there is to read....!!!

Judi Gemini -- I'm frankly not quite sure what the lesson will be - as the freight train hasn't quite reached us.

When the election went to B* in 2000, I had an instant visceral reaction and a flash-forward: B* has the capacity to become a dictator, supported by adoring fundamentalist right-wing nuts. They will attempt to impose their vision of the world upon all of us. I saw images evoking Margaret Atwood's (?) "The Handmaid's Tale" - and Orwell's "Animal Farm". I *knew* what was coming, and so far, the vision is holding true. [though as you will see as you read, my "vision" for the nation's future is fairly dark right now - so please don't read this if you don't want me bringing you down]

The Progressive Movement's uprising and mobilization of the democratic party during this election season gave me hope that my vision was just fear-based and over-reactive (still a possiblity!!). Now, I just feel sick. I'm also as uncertain as anyone here about what is to come, my forbodings notwithstanding.

I fear that those elements of the nation who support this regime are in for a hard lesson. Unfortunately we are coming along for the ride by reason of our physical proximity. Sometimes a lesson isn't aimed at us directly. It's headed for them, but dammit we're straight in the path too.

***

I'll use myself as an example, which is where this idea of "surrendering to the lesson" originated. When the Universe decided that I should learn to "let go" it shook the foundations of my life[work, family, property]. People who depended on me were upended, havoc befell all of us. I literally had to surrender to the forces that had my whole world in their grasp, and eventually had to tell everyone else in my life: "It's every man for himself -- I've got all I can do to take care of myself!"

Now that was hard for me to do. I'm a Master's level (not Ph.D.) college professor and researcher, background in social and clinical psychology. Got my degree late in life, after having/raising 5 kids. First 20 years of my adult life were spent in a form of fundamentalist Christianity. I had to struggle with co-dependency issues for years. Still do struggle with them. So, letting go just isn't something I do very well. Besides, I felt that as an empowered and educated woman I could control my own life, drive my own destiny, thank-you very much.

It took nearly 5 years of being "beat up" by events. I won't go into them here but believe me, I had plenty of warnings that gave me a clue about what I should do. But I persisted in "fighting the good fight" before I actually let go of the many "threads" that held my life together. When I did it was like being in a maelstrom. Everything [events] just whooshed by.

In the end, after the dust settled, everyone ened up fine. Better than they had been before actually - including myself. But I won't pretend that it wasn't hell while it was happening!

***

I don't feel this lesson to which I refer is something that WE (meaning more enlightened, progressive people) have wrought, necessarily, but is a manifestation of the intolerance and blind faith of a large percentage of the population, which is now conjoined with the naked greed and thirst for power that marks this administration.

Back to my gut -- the lesson? That "it CAN happen here". That intolerance and blind faith are NOT rewarded by heavenly salvation, but create a hell-on-earth where eventually even The Faithful will realize that they've been had. The lesson for them will be that "whatsoever [a people] soweth, that also shall [they] reap".

This is a lesson for the sleeping collective. They've resisted and avoided the hard stuff. But now they're going to reap the whirlwind.

Small comfort for us. But I believe that we are aware and awake for a reason. We can act proactively now to help those we love...get our kids out of harm's way before the draft fires up. Like many who saw the Nazi storm approaching, we may choose to go offshore for awhile. Or, if we're "freedom fighters" we may decide to regroup, entrench and prepare to do battle through whatever means are available to us. I think we'll each know our role and find ourselves empowered to act on it.

Sorry this is so long. Hope some of this makes sense to you...

KM

Gina...I said the same thing to my daughter and another friend this morning: they will try to overturn the constitution limit on 2 terms...not to mention Roe V Wade.....plus change the rule about being born in the country to be president....we seem to be reading from the same page in the book.

Hi guys, I am astrologer (GEM SUN MOON, CANCER ASC) of over 15 years and I wanted to post here because like you, I am in a state of shock and horror that Kerry lost.

I think you are right, especially here in Florida - this election was rigged. I am in Pinellas County, FL and I can tell you the support here for Kerry is phenomenal, we were out in force! I voted on an electronic touch screen machine, could it be rigged?...hmmmm.

So we will all have to collectively suffer with the ignorance of the American public. Either the Bush team played the fear card and it worked or the election was rigged! It seems it's going to have to get worse before it gets better. The rest of the world is laughing at us. Where did we (as a country) fail? What the hell's going on? This makes me want to study mundane astrology much closer. From what I understand, we are entering into a Piscean era in the US Sibley Chart - this is scary. Americans are choosing religious dogma over economic and foreign policy. What happened to the separation of church and state? I thought it would mean more compassion and understanding - not religion! I don't equate religion with Pisces - I've always associated that with the 9th house or fixed signs.

I just went to salon.com and looked at the photos of the Iraqi people/children with their limbs blown off, burned, faces smashed. Then the photos of the Iraqi prisoners who were humiliated by US troops in their own sovereign country. This meant nothing to 50% of America?

HELP! WE'RE HEADING INTO A BLACK HOLE!

I have to form a detached fated look at this or I am going to go insane!

Michael Lutin has some interesting things to say about this-(goes very much in conunction with what's been said above). Personally, although I voted for Kerry and I literally have a hard time even looking at Bush, much less hearing his stilted speech, I'm glad a democrat isn't shouldering the absolute mess that Bush and his buddies led us into. It's their karma and Kerry may be stronger out of office.

Right on Morgana!
How about succession? The blue states ALL ajoin Canad, or each other. If we come ofering Calefornia's growing season, & the "brain, talent" trust of the blue states, including NY City, Boston, Phila, Wash.DC wouldn't we be a welcome addition? ( The fundies all have to move to Alabama & Arkansas, of course, & Jo & Sioban, Pallas 18, & the others in red states, would have to join us.
Actually I have found a new direction for my artwork! Since we have a majority of dumb, Christians, ( no apologies this time Roxanne!!!!!)
I am going to produce a cheap line of prints of scenes, from the bible, ( ie: Currier & Ives, meets the "Rapture") to support my own activities)( Producing a Guernica for this time and place,)
More on that later.........don't dispair
Pat QOP

"Pluto approaching an opposition to Kerry's moon, all indicated the possibility of this outcome. "

Two things: Siobhan, sorry for misspelling your name, and I forgot to mention that Kerry's Gemini moon conjuncts his Saturn, so Pluto is opposing his Saturn (cf. Bill Herbst's (sic) comment about Kerry feeling like everything he's worked for coming to nothing (I think the article is called Bush and Kerry, After the Election).

"I timidly return to put in my two cents....I am shattered but not surprised. I read Claudia, Michael Lutin, Wolfstar, Richard Nolle and many others,. All predicted Bush...it was only here, in this faith based community, that the prevailing belief was that Bush would go down. Every time I entered here and tried to ask a question or point out an opposing point of view I was firmly and quickly put in my place. I tried again and again to remind everyone that facing reality was necessary...I said it early and often.

I am sorry for you grief. I share it. It would have been a lot less painful if all here had taken the time to entertain all the possibilities....not just the ones they liked."

Anne, I understand how you feel. I had those kind of thoughts, too, that I played down, because the planets did have some favorable indications for Kerry--and, again, if the machines aren't rigged, and voters aren't thrown out, then Kerry wins Ohio and the election.

But don't beat us up for being a "faith-based community." I think we're still in the Age of Pisces, Pluto is in Sag, and exit polls appear to indicate that we are a "faith-based" country. Let me tell you, it's no fun when there's a religious war that you didn't ask for going on, and it's YOUR faith that is being invalidated.

When we're proven "wrong," we make adjustments. I don't know how we'll adjust to this one, but we will, one way or another.

I still think Sally, esp., is an ace astrologer and writer. Looking back over the articles she wrote on this election, she called it all the way, and she did leave some wiggle room for the election being stolen.

We all had an emotional stake in this election, so it was hard to even consider the possibility of losing. In any case, Anne, I'm sorry if you felt that your thoughts were less than welcome. Please go easy on us. I think I know where you're coming from--all of you.

Although I am still somewhat depressed over the election, I wanted to express my thanks to all of you at Astroworld. The level of support here is fantastic and I am starting to feel that the world will continue turning. Nancy, Morgana, Sally, et al., keep writing, keep predicting. You're right more often than not and you keep the spirit of hope alive for us. Remember, Gore really did win in 2000.

The 2000 presidential election was like a mugging. There was no doubt a crime took place.

The 2004 presidential election is like being robbed by a pickpocket team--one jostles you, and while you are demanding he back off, the light-fingered one (those voting machines) lifts your wallet.

Getting the most votes in a state is one prediction. The lawful consequence--the ballots being truthfully counted so the right candidate is awarded the electoral votes--is another prediction. I think I've finally got it in my head that these two situations are no longer cause and effect.

The struggle goes on. We need an apparatus to save our country from these traitors--a traitor is a man who swears to "protect and defend the Constitution of the United States" and instead dismantles and subverts it.

The Democratic Party has a structure already in place--what it needs is new life-blood and leadership that honors ideals rather than being afraid of them. Daily Kos has a very interesting suggestion--make Howard Dean the head of the DNC!

What do you think?

PS-whether Bush will serve 4 years or sink in his own quagmire--we still have to plan for 2006--when we can make some big changes if we are ready.

Nancy, I'd like to join the chorus that says there is no need to apologize. You are a splendid astrologer. You were just calling it as you saw it with Kerry, and I was right alongside you albeit using different criteria to project Kerry as the winner, viz. my birthday/new moon info. Well, he did win the Democratic nomination, but not the Presidency, and you may be quite correct in what you see, but not interpreting it correctly. He may gain the White House, but lose something more precious in doing so, and even though I don't consider myself a fatalist, just remember (if you do believe in a higher power), that he/she has the final vote on how events turn out. My mom, in her finite wisdom, always used to say that everything happens for a reason, even if we can't see it at the present time, but without sounding preachy, the Divine Plan has to be fulfilled, and you know what, some may think me a nut, but in biblical terms, I've always thought of George Bush as the AntiChrist, or at the least, an individual who wreaks havoc and destruction - a killing machine , so to speak, whether it be directly or indirectly. Kerry is a man of peace, and probably does not fit in with the Divine plan at the moment.

Re: astrologers here and "accuracy" -- hey! You guys did a fine job of laying out the information and your analyses. You all know, and so do we non-astrologers, that it's not possible to make hard and fast predictions.

Each aspect/influence you name is just that: a factor contributing to the possibilities/probabilities as they work out here in the physical realms. Still takes action to bring them about. The aspects for deception were there. THEY (* and co) acted on them. What has manifested seems entirely within the probabilities as I read them here during the past few months.

As to how we deal with this - I'm going to simultaneously accept the lesson heading our way AND gear up to effect positive change in our nation's direction whereven I find the potential have an impact. So....how about a Congressional revolution in 2006?

Blessings and light to all here -- KM

I meant "wherever" not whereven....

Does anyone know what the mundane astrology shows for the next 4 years in the US?

Hello all. I am about as depressed as anyone can get. I was wondering if Saturn being retrograde yesterday had anything to do with the results. I read an article the other day by Raymond Merriman that when Saturn is retrograde the public becomes resistant to change. Do any of you astrologers see that as a cause for the tragic election results and when does Saturn go direct again?
(please let it be sooner than later)

KM....thanks....that is a great piece... explanation....of your take on the "lesson". I have gone thru a similar breakdown, which started under George Bush Sr....karma meeting karma, I think....and I, too, have had Margaret Atwood's Handmaiden's tale in my head a long time. And here is my two cents on some of the things being posted.

The lesson for me is not to give up....no wringing of hands. If you move to Paris, Jonathan, to get away from Bush, you will meet Bush in another way. If you move to Paris because it is a city of light and love and because you want to be there, then von boyage! No Blame...(don't forget history...Paris became a Nazi haven 60+ years ago.). If you move offshore....do it because it is your path...not just an escape. And perhaps it will be that many will take that path, hopefully to build a better life...but not JUST to escape this coming mess.

According to the above posting about the Rothschilds grip on the world of power and finance and the neocons/Cheney oil fighting them and Kerry being a Rothschild board piece....geez. What better myth than that to justify another form of totalitarian rule....because at least it is "OUR" totalitarians? Why would this kind of need include anti gay, anti abortion, pro christian rhetoric? The Handmaiden's Tale syndrome, which goes along with totalitarian governments, is all based on fact, isn't that right, KM? All of it from repressive totalitarian countries (most of which fell out of power when all the planets ended up in Capricorn c. 1990)...in the long run, freedom will prevail...it is being overwhelmed right now. But it will prevail. It has in Europe, and they have been through this already (else why would we have Animal Farm, Brave New World and Handmaiden's Tale?)

So now we KNOW what we have to look for...it is true, whoever has said it, that being aware and conscious ain't easy. Orwell wasn't predicting the future with Animal Farm...he, like Margaret Atwood, was talking about WHAT IS ALREADY HERE. Perhaps our ONLY defense is to be aware and conscious. Gandhi just sat down and said he wasn't going to move....I suggest we do the same

Will Bush last thru a second term?
Politically.... physically?
Or will he implode and melt down because I believe he really didn't want it?

Hi all,

I was bit surprised that not a single soul at this site care to make a comment on my prediction about the presidential election.

Anyway it's the force of American destiny is at work and has influenced the election outcome.

It so happens that the destiny of this country for better or worse is in tune with the destiny of president Bush...More on this in my monthly global predictions.

Jagdish Maheshri
Astro Insight
www.astroinsight.com

Judi Gem (your comments) - write (right) on!! So glad you were able to make sense of what I wrote.

Consciousness is a terrific place from which to respond to events...so let's keep bolstering each other and sharing our light.

I'm sorry I misread the article. Saturn doesn't go retrograde for a couple of days. So much for my theory

Aloha. . . well I've just awoken here in Hawaii to the bad news. When I finally went to sleep I thought we weren't going to know for another 11 days or so. I thought I would repeat here the lines I wrote on the night of Dec 13, 2000 when Bush stole his first term. I wrote them on the NPR "After the Vote" discussion thread--so they were written to those Bush supporters on that thread.

"may you all live long and prosper
long enough to understand what happened here this night
when the stone lady of the harbor
shed a tear and set down her beacon light"

So it has happened again, as hard as that is to believe.

I'm most grateful for all the astrological insights shared in the articles and discussion here. There is certainly no need for any of the astrologers to apologize because the election didn't turn out as they thought it might. To my understanding, astrology is just based on patterns, the fractal patterning in space and time of whatever exists in space and time. Its one thing to look backward in time and see how the patterns correlate with events, but it is simply impossible to know for sure how any pattern is going to play out in the future. You all did your best and came pretty close I think. I'm curious now about the rest of this month considering Nancy's observations.

I agree with what Sally said upthread. Though I allowed myself to be hopeful that Kerry could actually win, I could not help wondering whether or not this really was best. America has simply yet to wake up. Sooner or later we as a nation are going to have to admit the war in Iraq was a mistake. Sooner or later we are going to have to learn that the war is not winnable, and not a war that we should even want to win. Sooner or later we are going to have to "lose" that war in Iraq. If Kerry had won then that defeat would have been on his watch. That might have been a fatal blow to the Democratic Party. Sometimes winning can be the worst thing to happen as Bush is sure to learn.

Jagdish, I read your columns monthly, but didn't comment because I didn't want to entertain the possibility of a Bush win. Other than divide and create further choas in this country, I can't possible think of anything this man can do for us. Well yes, I can think of something he can do for us---leave office. Maybe I'm wrong.

I think this was right under your nose...

http://www.astroworld.us/archives/000333.html#000333

I hope I'm speaking from despair and disappointment and not from truth. I've felt for well over a year that this country was at a fork in the road, that if we chose Wes Clark - a man of light, a gift of the Universe - that if we chose Wes we would move towards the light, towards a greater future, and that to refuse him was to move towards darkness and possibly the end of this great experiment. When we chose Kerry - and he chose Edwards - I thought maybe I was wrong, that we had merely chosen mediocrity and that we at least wouldn't sink any lower into darkness. I think now that I was right in the beginning, that when America said NO to Wes, we (our collective unconscious) knew that our time was ending. Please God, let me be wrong.

I also wonder if the explosion of fundamentalism is part of the change of the ages. Leaving the Age of Pisces is going to meet with tremendous resistance among those who want to hang on to the status quo at all costs. Since Christianity is the religion of the Age of Pisces, those who want to maintain what they've always known would be terrified of losing it - or seeing it diluted. They would fight tooth and nail to save it - and turn out in record numbers to vote for the man they see embodying the Age. The U.S. progressed Sun moved into Pisces yesterday, and B*sh demonstrates all the negative Pisces traits - blind faith, alcohol & drug addiction, deceptiion. The Sun moving into Pisces may have trumped individual aspects and may be what we all overlooked.

Kerry gave his concession speach at 2:04 pm EST, in Boston, Mass.

Oh the pain. Be still, my heart.

I really resent, Donna, that you would come to this board which has supported Kerry/Edwards (and is NOT a faith based community...I abhor religion and have little faith in much at all; some of us could be accused, myself included, in having faith in our principles )and characterise John Kerry and John Edwards as mediocre. I liked Wes Clark too, but why insult the candidates who garnered almost half the votes?...could you explain WHY they were 'mediocre'? Are you saying that Kerry/Edwards were picked by the powers that be to be defeated? Or just that Kerry is charisma challenged? Are you saying that astrologically they were the wrong ticket to go up against Bush/Cheney? Frankly, it appears to me that Democrats don't have the power behind the throne which Bush has - the dirty tricks people, and that as much as Bush's "fated" chart, garnered the vote. It is so overwhelmingly suspiciously like 2000. The American people have been warned....but they aren't interested in anything but being at the winning party. No due diligence...it comes back on you....I know from experience. And I think the rest of the country will now find out the same thing.

Forgive me, I am sure you didn't mean to be so dismissive, and rub our noses in it, and some of the people who never post here have gone out of their way to post some nose rubbing today, but it reminds me that I got an email from a rightwing lawyer in MI today with the dog pissing on the Kerry Edwards sign. You've just done the same thing....

Jesus of Nazareth could not have defeated dubya... as Sally said, the fix was in... as I knew when they delivered the touchscreens to Carolina. We were fools not to take to the streets when the touch screens appeared... they are 'embedded' with fraud. Would you put money in the bank without getting a receipt? We have allowed every gate the fascists have erected... now we find ourselves 'fenced in'... the only tool of dissent we have is the internet, and who knows how long that will last.

Impeachment? Accountability? Hope for that is now gone. We have lost even more ground... we have less power than we did Nov. 1st.

Take the suppression of dissent during the 'rallies' for dubya... the armed guard that accompanies dubya everywhere he goes... planes overhead and SAMs on the roof of the building he occupies...

I feel like Cassandra... vote again? And give legality to their theft? The HAVA act will replace EVERY voting machine in America... and our tax dollars will pay for them. Elections? You mean a farce, don't you? Check out the following.

--------------------

How The Election Was Stolen

From Roz Hill
roz_hill_2u@hotmail.com
11-3-4

I watched the election results all night and into this morning. There are some very important issues to share.

One is the surprise expressed by the pundits wherein they acknowledge that the massive voter drives were propelled by discontent. So how did the most hated occupant of the White House manage to exceed his 45% poll average to now claim he has a huge "popular" win.

We are told that 22% voted on "morality" and that Bush took 80% of that 22%, and that is how he won. However, that leaves 78% who were focused on Kerry issues. Why aren,t we told the percentages of the 78%???

The second surprise for the media was that the results didn,t match the exit polls AT ALL. The media has gracefully claimed they "just got it wrong." You remember we didn,t have exit pollsters in 2002. It saved any disagreement with THAT Republican "sweep." In fact, the pollsters have always been 100% accurate, with just 1 to 2% polling data, in legitimate elections. Bush took the Texas governorship from Ann Richards when she had a 70% approval rating. Is it magic?

My "I TOLD YOU SO" is that I have SCREAMED since 2000 that if we don,t get rid of touch-screen "voting" computers, NOTHING, NOTHING, NOTHING else will matter.

So, here are the numbers (so far): 112,596,922 voters counted in the presidential race. Bush has been consistently polling at 45%, which SHOULD have given him 50,668,614 votes, instead of 58,073,612. This translates into 7,404,998 votes being siphoned off from Kerry votes. Now, how does that magic work???

Taxpayers get hit with a bill for $3600 (or more) for EACH of the touch-screen "voting" computers, which are nothing more than dedicated COUNTERS except that they are marketed by Republicans (who vowed to ensure Bush,s victory); and the American people have not been allowed to examine or certify the software in these units.

Here is how easy it is to "make magic"

-- we need COUNTERS - (B) = Bush; (K) = Kerry; (V) = Vote; (T) = Tally

1. If V = B, add 1 to B
2. If T = 8, add 1 to B; Clear T; Skip 3
3. If V = K, add 1 to K; Add 1 to T

This extremely simple bit of programming would shift 12% of the vote from Kerry to Bush, it would defy exit polls, and it would make it look like Bush had a huge popular win. It is time that the software in these SECRET Republican-owned computers be examined with a deliberate check for instructions that could modify the vote tally.

Al-Qaeda has previously regarded the American people as victims of a crooked election in 2000. Now they regard Americans as responsible for letting this man -- who is regarded as the worst terrorist on the planet continue his tyrannous regime. I doubt that the rest of the world will accept four more years of his lies and looting.

Roz Hill
http://rense.com/general59/steI.HTM

Janet,

Thanks for your response.

You are not wrong if you are routing for Kerry and not looking at astrology. But in my opinion when one deals with astrology one needs to be totally openminded and not ignore what the planets revealing to us regardless of the personal bias.

Last think I want to see is astrology being ridiculed. I hope you would agree with me.

Jagdish
www.astroinsight.com
JMaheshri@aol.com

It is as I thought. [still, it chills my blood to see it in black and white]

Someone upthread said that Kerry lost by not getting the votes, but many of us knew when the tide changed last evening that the "fix" was in. Kerry lost to the computers AND to the crooked election officials who denied many Ohioans and Floridians their right to vote.

Won't ever be looked into or resolved , especially if it's up to the media or the administration. Without Congress I don't know how we can force it either.

Can't stand any more. Got work to do and a property to buy. Best to all here...

KM

George W Bush began his acceptance speech at 3:07pm EST in Washington, DC

Repeat of some of my previous posts.

http://blackboxvoting.org

SEATTLE, WASHINGTON Nov 3 2004 -- Did the voting machines trump exit polls? There’s a way to find out.

Black Box Voting (.ORG) is conducting the largest Freedom of Information action in history. At 8:30 p.m. Election Night, Black Box Voting blanketed the U.S. with the first in a series of public records requests, to obtain internal computer logs and other documents from 3,000 individual counties and townships. Networks called the election before anyone bothered to perform even the most rudimentary audit.

GO TO http://blackboxvoting.org America: We have permission to say No to this. It is our right.

We call on every candidate not to concede. Don't play along. It is your right.

......................................
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1293911

More at DU: CNN just changed their Ohio exit poll page

.....................................
Remember what Sally wrote.

"
"Looking at the Neptune influence today makes me feel like I'm on drugs. All of us laboring under the illusion (myself included) that we will have a quick decision, an obvious decision can begin the process of accepting the fact that it's an illusion. The immature and out of control "Jr. High" tricks of people who are supposed to be our leaders is a stunner to me. Have we all been so blinded that we have actually believed America was "better' than other countries. The blatent dirty tricks in this election are overwhelming, I guess because it's in our face and we can count on Neptune stripping away our illusions about our Constitution, our leaders, our justice system.

Not only has government squandered the trust of our allies, they are squandering the faith Americans have in their country and their leaders. Kerry is going to have to turn his "Swift Boat" into the enemy over the next weeks. With all the Neptune influence in today's chart, including Neptune inconjunct the transiting Moon and transiting Sun coming to a square to Neptune, the lies, dirty tricks almost ensure a long battle without a clear cut outcome.

Today, transiting Pluto is in an exact (by degree and Minute) conjunction to GWB's South Node, if he manages to cheat his way back into the White House, he can count on reaping the whirlwind."

And remember what Nancy wrote.

"After much consideration of the many astrological factors, I am predicting that we may well have a post-election power struggle that will culminate between November 20 and 25, with John Kerry the winner. Our present-day increasingly vicious cultural civil war is likely to be ruthless, fierce, and deeply disturbing during these three weeks. Unfortunately, though the Kerry victory will be immensely important, it will not herald the end of this bitter war between two opposing and mutually exclusive world views. One can hope, however, that with appropriate presidential leadership, some of the excesses of this ongoing battle can be muted in the coming years."

915 National Press Building, Washington, D.C. 20045
(202) 347-0020 * http://www.accuracy.org * ipa@accuracy.org
___________________________________________________

1 p.m. ET -- Wednesday, November 3, 2004

Was the Ohio Election Honest and Fair?

TERESA FEDOR, [via Greg Lestini, glestini@maild.sen.state.oh.us]
Ohio State Senator Teresa Fedor said today: "There was trouble with our
elections in Ohio at every stage. It's been a battle getting people
registered to vote, getting to the ballot on voting day and getting that
vote to count. There is a pattern of voter suppression; that's why I called
for [Ohio Secretary of State] Blackwell's resignation more than a month
ago. Blackwell, while claiming to run an unbiased elections process, was
also the co-chair of the Bush-Cheney campaign in Ohio. Additionally, he was
the spokesperson for the anti-business, anti-family constitutional
amendment 'Issue 1,' and a failed initiative to repeal a crucial sales-tax
revenue source for the state. Blackwell learned his moves from the
Katherine Harris playbook of Florida 2000, and we won't stand for it."

BILL MOSS, bmoss@hbcuconnect.com
Executive vice president of HBCU Connect, which works to connect
historically black colleges and universities, Moss said today: "I stayed in
line two and a half hours. I've never seen anything like this in my life.
There were fewer voting machines in the highly concentrated black areas,
creating the long lines so as to frustrate the voters. But we knew the
Republicans -- many of whom became Republicans because they opposed equal
rights for blacks -- would try to drive down black turnout. ... [Ohio
Secretary of State] Blackwell was confusing things by raising issues like
the paper weight of cards."

SUSAN TRUITT, susan.truitt@lexisnexis.com, http://www.caseohio.org
Co-founder of the Citizens Alliance for Secure Elections, Truitt said
today: "Seven counties in Ohio have electronic voting machines and none of
them have paper trails. That alone raises issues of accuracy and integrity
as to how we can verify the count. A recount without a paper trail is
meaningless; you just get a regurgitation of the data. Last year, Blackwell
tried to get the entire state to buy new machines without a paper trail.
The exit polls, virtually the only check we have against tampering with a
vote without a paper trail, had shown Kerry with a lead. ... A poll worker
told me this morning that there were no tapes of the results posted on some
machines; on other machines the posted count was zero, which obviously
shouldn't be the case."

DAN WALLACH, dwallach@cs.rice.edu, http://www.cs.rice.edu/~dwallach,
http://www.accuracy.org/press_releases/PR062104.htm
Wallach is an assistant professor of Computer Science at Rice University in
Houston specializing in building secure and robust software systems for the
Internet. Along with colleagues at Johns Hopkins, Wallach co-authored a
groundbreaking study that revealed significant flaws in electronic voting
systems. He appeared on an Institute for Public Accuracy news release in
June entitled "Electronic Voting -- Danger for Democracy."

BOB FITRAKIS, rfitrakis@cscc.edu
An attorney who monitored the election with the Election Protection
Coalition, Fitrakis said today: "There were far fewer machines in the
inner-city districts than in the suburbs. I documented at least a dozen
people leaving because the lines were so long in African-American areas.
Blackwell did a great deal of suppressing before the election -- like
attempting to refuse to process voter registration forms. The absentee
ballots were misleading in Franklin County. Kerry was the third line down,
but you had to punch number four to vote for him. Bush was getting both his
votes as well as Kerry's."

HARVEY WASSERMAN, windhw@aol.com,
http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2004/810
Senior editor of FreePress.org, an Ohio-based web site, and co-author with
Fitrakis of the recent article "Twelve Ways Bush is Now Stealing the Ohio
Vote," Wasserman said today: "There was a huge fight around ensuring that
the electronic voting machines had paper trails and there was resistance by
the secretary of state, so there is no paper trail. There were some
victories to ensure a paper trial -- by 2006. There were limited numbers of
voting machines in African-American districts. Some people had to wait up
to eight hours, far more than in predominantly white areas."

BACKGROUND AND CONTEXT:

On November 9, 2003, the New York Times reported: "In mid-August, Walden W.
O'Dell, the chief executive of Diebold Inc., sat down at his computer
to  compose a letter inviting 100 wealthy and politically inclined friends
to a  Republican Party fund-raiser, to be held at his home in a suburb
of  Columbus, Ohio. 'I am committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral
votes to the president next year,' wrote Mr. O'Dell, whose company is based
in  Canton, Ohio. That is hardly unusual for Mr. O'Dell. A longtime
Republican, he is a member of President Bush's 'Rangers and Pioneers,' an
elite group of loyalists who have raised at least $100,000 each for the
2004 race. But it is not the only way that Mr. O'Dell is involved in the
election process. Through Diebold Election Systems, a subsidiary in
McKinney, Tex., his company is among the country's biggest suppliers of
paperless, touch-screen voting machines. Judging from Federal Election
Commission data, at least 8 million people will cast their ballots using
Diebold machines next November. ... Some people find Mr. O'Dell's pairing
of interests -- as voting-machine magnate and devoted Republican
fund-raiser -- troubling."
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/09/business/yourmoney/09vote.html

On November 3, 2004, Reuters reported: "Voters across the United States
reported problems with electronic touch-screen systems on Tuesday in what
critics said could be a sign that the machines used by one-third of the
population were prone to error.... "
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1103-03.htm

On October 24, 2004, the Palm Beach Post reported: "A federal judge on
Monday rejected U.S. Rep. Robert Wexler's claim that paperless electronic
voting violates the constitutional rights of Floridians...."
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/content/news/epaper/2004/10/26/c1a_wexler_1026.html

On November 3, 2004, Thomas Crampton wrote in the International Herald
Tribune: "The global implications of the U.S. election are undeniable, but
international monitors at a polling station in southern Florida said
Tuesday that voting procedures being used in the extremely close contest
fell short in many ways of the best global practices...."
http://www.iht.com/articles/2004/11/02/news/observe.html

For more information, contact at the Institute for Public Accuracy:
Sam Husseini, (202) 347-0020; or David Zupan, (541) 484-9167

Timothy, I think you're right. GWB isn't going to enjoy his 2nd term. Historically, 2nd terms are much harder. Presidents tend to overreach because they think they have a mandate to do whatever they want. I think the resistance to this [p]resident is going to stiffen once the initial shock is over.

Grassroots' effort on the internet shook Sinclair up. Are our congressmen and senators susceptible to this? Bush may not feel he's accountable but the senators and reps are. They're not lame ducks.

Just a thought...Nancy, the aspects later this month...any possbility they could be related to allegations of voter fraud growing legs?

OUCH, Judi. You just flamed the skin off my back. I thought that this was a political astrology blog, didn't realize it was a Kerry/Edwards blog, so didn't realize I was stepping on toes. I voted for K/E, worked for them, made phone calls, gave money I couldn't afford, talked them up to everyone, even people in grocery lines, meditated, did what I could, am devastated that they didn't win. I see Kerry as a good man, was thinking yesterday that he was destined to win because working out the quagmire in Iraq would finish the job he started thirty years ago in Vietnam. He was my second choice in the primaries. I will admit that I was vastly disappointed when he chose Edwards for vp - I felt he made the choice the Democratic establishment wanted him to make, felt that Edwards didn't have the experience, especially in foreign policy, to take over the reins of government if need be. I also felt that the powers that be in the Democratic party rigged the election so that the voters in two small states, Iowa and New Hampshire, made the choice for us. Mediocity was not a good choice of words, and I apologize for that.

I'm not quite sure what you meant about this not being a faith based community. I didn't think it was. I grew up in the midst of religious extremism, am horrified by it and am probably more aware than most of the damage it can do. (That's another story and in some ways, a tragic one.) I was trying to say that fundamentalism is the last gasp of the Age of Pisces. Neptune is transiting my Sun right now, and I apparently didn't say what I meant.

I do apologize for offending anyone. My afflicted Libra Mars doesn't handle confrontations at all well, and it certainly wasn't my intention to rub anyone's nose in anything. Mostly I was trying to share my worry at the future of the country. I guess getting attacked like this is an expression of the solar eclipse falling within 15 minutes of my 3rd Mars at 21 Libra. It's better than a car accident, which is what I was afraid of. Or a fire.

Goodbye.

Jagdish

Please forgive me, but since I have the reputation for being the junkyard dog, and since today is such a difficult day... I cannot pass over your comments without making a few of my own.

You suggest to Janet, and I assume to the rest of us, that the outcome was "right under our nose" - when in fact the article you refer to is dated Nov 2003... I came to a-world about January 2004; I have read a good many articles in the archives, but I missed this one... which was written before we knew who the Dem candidate would be, by the way.

As for the "planets reveal to us" --- no, they don't 'reveal' --- there is interpretation involved... and those of us who are students and even some who consider themselves expert read different 'patterns' as our Jonathan, who calls himself a newbie has pointed out (a most wise 'newbie', I might add)... so that the revelation, is indeed, in the eye of the beholder.

In mundane astrology, say an electional, there are basically two outcomes: A wins, or B wins... yesterdays election has even suggested a third to some: that there would be no 'clear' outcome... and the matter would drag on for days. Some might suggest that there is a clear result. You appear to believe your prediction is accurate. That notion is debatable... *sh will obviously be accepted by many as having been re-elected. But I do not believe the people chose him. I believe he was fraudently declared the winner. So, tell me please, wherein lies the personal 'bias'?

To my mind, there is no entity on the planet who can approach astrology with a completely open mind free of personal bias, as you suggest above that one should do. If you encounter such an entity, then consider yourself lucky indeed, for you have come into the presence of the buddha, or the fully awakened one.

If you perceive some angst in my words, you are correct. Those folks who bring "I told you so's" or "you should have listened to my prediction" do not give solace to people who feel 'betrayed', who feel disillusioned about their government, their country. You see, we do indeed have a 'dog in this hunt' - and I would suggest that every being on this planet does...

No wonder there is so much conflict in this country! Where is the graciousness, the generousity of the winning side? Where is the attempt to bring together? Good grief, we are not given even a few hours to scream our anger... that bodes ill for the months and years ahead.

In my humble opinion (and one must grant that I have been indeed been made humble today by the concession of my candidate to a man who can continue to destroy my country with license)--- those who give astrological predictions or make psychic pronouncements have a responsibility to others... they have a gift, one which must be used with loving concern for others... theirs is the power to heal.

Lifted from another site:
Here's a theory for you -- yes, the election was quite possibly stolen through rigged computer voting machines. But the punchline is this: the Democratic primaries might also have been stolen the same way by John Kerry. Doesn't anyone remember how odd it was that Kerry was buried in the middle of the pack in all the primary polls right up until the moment the actual voting began? Hard to believe that Dean was leading in most of the polls and then all Democrats nationwide suddenly switched to John Kerry.
A Washington "outsider" running on a peace platform was the Democratic party's last-best chance. Kerry was never anything more than "Bush Lite." As the only choices the voters had were War Candidate A versus War Candidate B, it's no surprise they stuck with the incumbent.

Forgive me, unidentified poster, but posting that piece you "lifted" from another site is offensive to me and serves only to rub my nose in a defeat I take personally.

I too am deeply saddened and concerned for the world by the events of yesterday. But, perhaps we cannot see the forest for the trees and all need to step back a bit, breathe deeply, and center ourselves. I do want to thank you so very much Sally for this site and sharing your wisdom, and thank also the many varied participants for their insights, time, knowledge, and perspective.

We have all become such an ‘I want it now’ consumer based, fickle society. And as we look back into history, in reality, no big change ever happens very fast. It is just that we can look back to a certain event and say, ‘that’ was the fulcrum point. Perhaps that is now.
If it is true that Pluto will be doing its work on the psyche of the US people for some time yet, and the broader planetary picture is the evolution into true spirituality for the globe, then maybe we are still on track after all. In the bigger picture everyone has been saying that the days to 2012 and perhaps 2020 may be difficult – that has not been changed by this election.

Our task remains to walk the talk – which means somehow overcoming that internal fear of what ‘they’ will do to ‘us.’ Surely the vibration of fear is no different whether it is fear of a neighbor who is different, fear of the “terra-ists” or fear of what political controllers might do to us. The self discipline required to practice genuine spirituality, and radiate love NO MATTER WHAT, is the difficult task before humanity. I sure hope a growing number of us are up to the task. That is after all what the Christ was doing by example – sad the message has been so lost in dogma.
I keep thinking of words from Carolyn Myss “it matters not that you learn the lesson by holding the blade of a knife or the handle. It matters that you learn the lesson of the knife.”

Jo...that is the best line I've heard yet....Jesus of Nazareth couldn't have beaten Bush....

BTW..Claudia Dikinis wrote this on Sept 17 http://starcats.com/newsmakers.html:

Tony Blair just gave a speech regarding the reelection of Bush, which can only be described as strained. The world is very very unhappy.

Bush has slid around all the scandals so far, in spite of all the planets. So far.

Jo,

Appreciate your response. But I didn't suggest the following.

"You suggest to Janet, and I assume to the rest of us, that the outcome was "right under our nose" - when in fact the article you refer to is dated Nov 2003... I came to a-world about January 2004; I have read a good many articles in the archives, but I missed this one... which was written before we knew who the Dem candidate would be, by the way. "

Apparently you are mixed up with another posting.

I understand your state of mind. Also, I want you to know that I'm not a perfect astrologer (I believe there's no such thing as perfect astrologer). I'm a researcher in astrology.

My understanding was "Astro World" is for sharing astrological knowledge and learn from it. I guess I was and am wrong.

FYI I'm neither democrat nor republican. I voted for Kerry.

jagdish

Donna the Judi Gemeni flames a lot of people. Skip her postings it's easier.

After much consideration, I've come to the conclusion that Bush will get what he deserves: a Country hobbled by a never-ending economic downturn, partisan warfare, a now hungry and salivating Religious Right out-of-step with the majority of the country and "supporters" who'll want PayBack BIG TIME! I would not want to be Bush right now. And I think Kerry, in looking back, will breathe a bit of a sigh of relief that he dodged that one.

Will Bush and his greed eventually be the end of the Bush Dynasty? I believe so. With the Republicans in Power, the Country's target of who to blame is firmly in sight. When they lose their jobs, when they feel their rights threatened, when they no longer have the money they once had and are finding it difficult to afford the simplest things ... the Republican Party will have NO ONE to turn and put the blame on.

And, finally, I've decided to continue studying Astrology as it fascinates me! You win some, you lose some ... c'est la vie, tu sais? But I am no longer watching any news whatsoever and will find myself doing something wonderful for my Soul the day and hour that Chimp raises his hand and promises to lie to us for another 4 years. Bubble bath, movie, chocolate ... maybe all three at once! It's the least I can do for my poor, battered and utterly bereft Soul. :-)

Thanks, guys. I've come through the dark tunnel and am now in the Light. America is on it's Path and everything that happens will lead us to the inevitable. Buy silver and invest in Euros!!!!!!!!

P.S. Jo, your comments regarding my wisdom made me smile. Thank you.

Hey, I'm with Moses at www.Astrologyforthesoul.com
(see Garry's note above).

It's Bush's destiny to WIN THE BATTLE BUT LOSE THE WAR!

Keep that little mantra in the back of your mind.

Meanwhile, I love all of you dearly. You are all very human, filled with the gamut of emotions, and this seems to be a great place to share them. This is a good place to practice the Golden Rule of treating others as we want to be treated. If we disagree, try to do so with care.

Jeanne....wise words....

but have you ever had an abortion in a clinic across from Caliente race track in Tiajuana....WITHOUT ANESTHETIC? Having to duck from Mexican police carrying AK47's? Go thru the border check with people looking for young woman who look as if they've had an abortion and then get thrown in jail for doing it? Well, I didn't get thrown in jail because I wasn't drugged....but later I almost lost my ability to conceive because of infection....

This is hard reality. And it is going to hit us very hard and very fast now......while everyone is in a workshop learning the lesson of the knife. Well, I learned the lesson of the knife in a different kind of workshop....it hurts without anesthetic....which is probably WHY people vote for the drugged illusion instead of the hard truth. The workshops are OVER folks.

Don't forget....the Romans had a nice solution for the early Christians, too....bring on the lions. All the spiritual work in the world flies out the window, all the workshops and candles and meditations, when confronted with the knife. We have spent 25 years trying to make it safe for women to face that knife (and get wisdom from workshops)....and we will obviously continue to try to do so....I live in CA...we have laws in place to protect California women from returning to those back alleys...but what about our sisters elsewhere? I agree .... the fear vibration takes over, I am far more prone to that than most, and I have fought it (and being a Cassandra) all my life....but I will NOT allow my granddaughter to have to endure a back alley abortion 20 years from now....so perhaps this is the lesson...you have to fight for your freedom. Perhaps this is the beginning of that period which preceded the Revolutionary War....skirmishes, pamphleteering and riots....or as Peter Fonda once famously said in the movie "The Trip"...."this IS the trip"

Jagdish,

Apparently I combined the words of your post to Janet together with the following:

"I think this was right under your nose...

http://www.astroworld.us/archives/000333.html#000333

Posted by: Lahiri_Ayanamsa on November 3, 2004 06:51 PM "

--------------

No, Jagdish, your assumption about the board is correct... "My understanding was "Astro World" is for sharing astrological knowledge and learn from it. I guess I was and am wrong."

Please do not go away... in fact, I feel like zipping my mouth and going far into my woods until I get my mind wrapped around what has transpired in the last 24 hours...

I am very thin skinned today...

Thank you astrologers for all your hard good work and I think we are all grieving for our man of the hour who could have brought so much good to our country.

I poll-watched all day yesterday and things went very well, no challenges to voters and when they had problems they were straightened out. I almost wished I was at one of the polling places like Pallas18, but I wasn't sure I would be as courageous as she. Thank you for your work Pallas. I can see you being a catalyst with your heavy hitting research work to take Bush down. I believe you will be part of the power that accomplishes it.

We must demand paper trails, for our kids and grand-kids, and if the election was rigged (seeing the exit polls we were so gleeful!) then we must must get a paper trail. They will not be able to manage that little bit of programming with a paper trail!!

I was at work all day and did okay until the concession speech, and then was crying so uncontrollably that I had to leave work. Maybe that's exactly what I needed to do.

I feel for you all and I grieve with you.

Funny how people who never participate come out of the shadows all at once with their own directives... I never flame people.....but I do confront. Flaming means demeaning people....I do not call people names or flame them.

Jagdish....I've never even read one of your posts before and don't get what you meant by no one commenting on it...sorry...I have no idea what you meant. Also, I thought I had posted the same thing about "the article being under our nose"....it was posted a year ago before I even knew about this website.

Nancy, you haven't posted since early this morning and I am really concerned that you think I'm blaming you for getting my hopes up too high. I am not and I want you to know that I trust your judgment. The dark fog is lifting from my heart right now and my thinking is that perhaps, in the long run, it's best that no Democrat won this election. The Repubs will now have no one else to blame for all the problems that are sure to come. I often wondered if Kerry would have even been given a chance to "fix" things. He would not have been given any opportunity because of the Republican majorities in Congress. If Kerry had won, there would always someone trying to shift blame to him for things Bush started.

My hopes were over-inflated by a Moon-Jupiter sqare (the "all eggs in one basket" aspect).

Please post soon, Nancy, just so I know you're ok.

Teresa...lets have a shot of bourbon and commiserate in peace...Sally was right....lots of Neptunian energy today.....

I'll have to try booze since chocolate isn't working.

Teresa, that was me....I said lets have a shot of bourbon (I don't drink bourbon, but it seemed so appropriate) but then I got an email from a friend with a more appropriate brew available:
Stone Double Bastard 22 oz 22 oz:
We will have product in stock on 11/4. Our allotment is not huge, enjoy it while you can.

If you have yet to try the Double Bastard, think Arrogant Bastard only more malt, more hops and more alcohol. Everything you love in a beer and more. Now in a convenient party size.
http://www.liquidsolutions.biz/product/STONEDOUBLEBASTA.htm

Judi, you crack me up sometimes. :)

Teresa.........

I think you have had an epiphany......

Wine works a hell of a lot better than chocolate at this point. (And ounce for ounce, it's less fattening).

I am so surprised that no one, including myself, praised Jo's wonderful piece upthread....namaste, Jo, namaste....

Me, with my overwhelmed Mars in Aries for is just angry....and being told NOT to be angry...so thank you Jo, thank you....you made me cry.

Hello all - well, it was a combo of the Diebold spread (reference Roz Hill's excellent explanation above) and massive gearjamming of voters in Ohio, many of whom gave up after too many hours of waiting. Touchscreen totals just don't equate with pre-election numbers in Florida. How can an 7-8 point Kerry advantage turn totally around on election day? Now that doesn't pass the smell test.

Even if he gets away with few if any touchscreen inspections, second terms are usually a disaster. And as a friend called to remind me of something I considered a major factor up to about a month ago, "Tecumseh's curse is still in play." My original call (before the article posted here) referenced the Curse, but then I got seduced by poll numbers and let my bias for reality-based government cloud my impartiality.

Sorry, but I didn't want to believe he'd steal it again, despite the Sun square Neptune and Mars square Saturn in the election chart. Still, Bush is having Saturn visit his Saturn/Asc for some time to come, and so I think he's in for a very hard time. He truly won the battle by cheating, but will lose the war. Welcome to government by filibuster!

Teresa...thanks, glad to be of service...and Teg....I didn't connect it before, but the day before I got sick last week I ate 2 chocolate bars...I rarely eat chocolate....don't drink hardly at all...and now I get why I got sick. I always get sick before something traumatic...and astrologically, I realized suddenly that my little loney Mars in 8 Aries in the 6th house was taking a BIG hit from the moon and jupiter yesterday...and the day before. My mars is the only planet I have in the bottom, subjective, half of my chart....when I get angry, I really blow....and as the saying goes, laughter is the best medicine.

Donna, Judy, Janet, KM, Jagdesh, all-

Could we all please be a little more forgiving today? We all feel like venting and we're all a little sore and thin-skinned.
But rest assured, I value all of your viewpoints even if they do not say what I want to hear.

LOVE IS THE ANSWER! I still insist this is the smartest site on the web, will you all now join me in proving it?

Teg, actually I prefer wine too, a nice rose along with a bubble bath, candles, soft music and a good book with the faithful dogs snoozing on the bathroom rug.

Lucy: I do enjoy reading your posts here and have just come across the one where you mention that "people like it when you swear".

I was just getting ready to ask you if you would be so kind as to refrain from swearing when I ran into that post.

I realize this is a very bold move on my part and risk incurring your ill favor but it just seems to add to my own negativity and am not accustomed to seeing it here on this excellent site.

When a country/nation gets a new King or prez, it
is supposed to rejoice, as recnetly even in Cambodia(crowning a new king), but here as the war
mongering robber by crook or whatever method occupies WH again, I see all around me, people totally depressed-everything W(rong) with usa. Also, when did the morons in the rural red neck areas equate moral values with a war mongerer, killing innocents at home and abroad, involved in stealing and robbing and vote for this criminal in
droves? By the way, I'm back from my sojurn in Asia.

So comforting to read all of your posts.

Well,

I’ve eaten chocolate and pasta( not together), cried, shouted and even sobbed uncontrollably during Kerry’s concession speech. Didn’t realize how invested I was in this election.

Even wrote a letter to President Bush (not necessarily going to mail it)

I’ve asked, WHY. WHY. WHY.
Could it have been the hurricanes that nudged Florida for Bush?
So many other “could it have beens.”

Now I’m into my philosophical phase and I’ve decided that Bush had to win to clean up the karma he created during the past four years.

John Kerry couldn’t do Bush’s karma. Bush has to redeem it, clean it up. That’s universal law. There is a law of cause and effect. There is accountability. Isn’t that Saturn?

Anyhow, now that that’s what I’ve decided, I feel better.

Peace

Jaycee....maybe Bush is just going to ram thru every program he intends to ram through instead....if he becomes enlightened like another mother Teresa, so much the better ..... but I think you would be better off just eating chocolate and pasta together instead! We are now in NeoCon PNAC territory....Imperialist America. here we come.

By the way, it is just the calm BEFORE a violent storm for shrub,cheny,rummy and the whole rotten
gansta(this is all an illusion being pulled off by
mother nature for these rogue sinners), so let these jerks better fasten their seat belts for a very rough,bumpy ride starting today!

Robert, I sure HOPE there will be "government by filibuster."

All this talk from Kerry about healing our divisions is great, but that's going to be a hard order, given the rhetoric (I still haven't forgotten Pat Robertson saying that people like me helped 9/11 happen), and the GOP's agenda of shifting the tax burden to the poor, privatizing Social Security, appointing far-right judges, criminalizing abortion and obliterating gay rights. If the prediction that, with Pluto in Sag till 2008, the divisiveness isn't going away is correct, this will be why.

I hope that the Democrats develop some backbone to curb some of the excesses that they're sure to pass otherwise. Without some obstructionism, I just don't see how anything is going to stop them from passing their agenda. Unless they find a way to stop themselves. And unless circumstances like Iraq and the economy stop them. Let us hope. And work.

Raj,

Welcome back! Yes, where is the joy over this election? He has a mandate, right?

Anyway, there is joy for us, you are back!

Namaste

Jo,

Thank you very much Jo and all. I only had wished
my coming back and the welcome would have been in
more jovial circummstances than these somber atmosphere I see all around me today(it is so sad
in so many ways but from this abysss, all we can
do is go upwards onto better and finer future, hopefully from 2008 onwards. So I'm not the one to
give up on HOPE by any means(like Bill Clinton the
GREAT)

Jo, I understand where you're coming from. I am sadder today than I've been in my life (and I'm 50). I think the thing that's hardest to take is that the whole thing is a fraud and the media are complicit in the perpetration and cover-up. How can these people live with themselves?

I think the thing that makes me so discouraged (hell, I'm more than discouraged) is that the cartel can now forge ahead with their plans to completely destroy the country unchallenged and unchecked. They pretty much did that anyway, but the spectre of the election probably held them back a little. Now they don't have that to face and can proceed apace over the cliff dragging half of the electorate kicking and screaming with them (the other half will willingly fling themselves over the edge like the lemmings they are).

Well, if Sally's and Nancy's predictions hold true, we can pretty much look at dimson's astrological aspects and determine what the weather will be for planet USA, because if I understand what I've been reading here: GWB is us, and we are him, inextricably intertwined.

Donna....I missed your post upthread and should have replied to it, but somehow it got posted at a time when I didn't see it. I didn't mean to rip the skin off your back....but just got inflamed by the 'mediocre candidate' remark and the email I got privately with the dog pissing on the sign (which you of course had nothing to do with -just bad timing).... I am not excusing myself here, but we are all crazy today. And I was having a flaming email exchanged with someone else...all of which turned out to have been lack of information. Thanks for expanding on what you did for the campaign...we are all volitile after this kind of shock, and everything happening so fast...

I obviously reacted personally to this...and Kerry's astrology is kind of close to mine....so I am overprotective. Not to mention the fact that my daughter's stepmother used to call me 'mediocre'!!! So please, accept my apologies. And the faith based community remark was someone else's that got to me.....and I think Jo had a great answer to that also...which I would bet you agree with.
Jo wrote:
If you perceive some angst in my words, you are correct. Those folks who bring "I told you so's" or "you should have listened to my prediction" do not give solace to people who feel 'betrayed', who feel disillusioned about their government, their country. You see, we do indeed have a 'dog in this hunt' - and I would suggest that every being on this planet does...

No wonder there is so much conflict in this country! Where is the graciousness, the generousity of the winning side? Where is the attempt to bring together? Good grief, we are not given even a few hours to scream our anger... that bodes ill for the months and years ahead.

Hey, Gina, looks like you and I are "family." : )

RajRaj so glad to see you back....we are just chilled to the bone here. So much work to do....but glad you are here again.

Welcome back, Raj.

Sounds like we are all getting a perspective back. I've promised myself a hiatus from all news sites and tv news tonight. I'm going to immerse myself in the book on FDR I'm reading.

Yes, Gaia, we are "family."

Hi to all,

OK, our guy didn't win this one. It is not the end, in fact it may be a beginning.

The other side now controls the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial branches of our government.

And they will reap whatever they have sown or will sow in the future, isn't that the way it works? Getting out of "their" war in Iraq, its cost in dollars and lives, the burden of at least maintaining the American standard of living, if not improving it, how to maintain a military force stretched too thin by only one major front without having a draft, are in "their" hands.

If they can successfully deal with those things in a way that makes them re-electable then perhaps the straits we find ourselves in today are not as bad as they may seem to us.

But if they cannot accomplish those things or do not do so without alienating their base in their individual states and the collective United States there just might be a wholesale house-cleaning that places the control of the country's future in "our" hands four years from now.

Using a time 12:05 PM, EST, for the Inaugural Chart in Washington, D.C. we get the following action in 2005:

Saturn conjunct Saturn May 19

Pluto conjunct Pluto June 5

(Bush has Saturn conjunct natal Saturn by right ascension on June 18, final time)

Saturn opp midheaven June 25

Saturn opp Sun July 22

Pluto conjunct Pluto Nov 21 (final time)

Don't know what it all means by any stretch of the imagination but all that Saturn ain't good.

Let them sow, then let them reap, and get ready to do some house cleaning.

Now lift your heads and renew your resolve because we are not through just yet.

bob

Let it all out guys - it's sure helping me to see that we are all angry, depressed - I don't mind strong language or feelings either (my mars is 0 degrees cancer square uranus). We have got to go through this healing process and vent!

The good guy lost to lies, deception and neptune illusion...but Karma has to make this right somehow.

When I posted last February a quote from Sylvia
Brown that Kerry would lose to Bush...most jumped
all over me. Alas she was right.

Now he has to sit in his own messy diapers. As
posted above it is his karma, Kerry couldn't have
fixed it - the right wing Congress would have
never allowed it. They broke Iraq and now they
most pay for it. Too bad so many more will lose
their lives trying to fulfill his pipedream.
But it his, and we can only sit back and enjoy
his boomerang karma. In two years we can elect
a Democratic Congress...let us hope the Dems select some more Obamas and other quality candidates, and STOP running away from the word
and title LIBERAL...look the word up in the
dictionary and see if it doesn't describe you.
Remember too, no one could unite the Red States
like Hillary. Much as you may like her she won't
be elected, so it is time to start looking for and
backing someone who can get elected. We have time
let us use it well.

Teresa....how fitting to be reading of FDR...the last of his vision is now eclipsed, I fear (perhaps this is a cautionary tale about having a monument to your vision and work in DC;not to mention the Vietnam Memorial).....the eclipse on the 27th was on Kerry's Venus at 3 Scorpio....Venus = Values...and that was the south node of the eclipse. I also fear for his health. I got sick on the day after the eclipse....my rising is 0 Scorpio. More south node business....that eclipse made a very definite impression....as if I was emptied out completely and bottomed out at the same time. Fitting.

nancy et. al.--

Anyone who pointed out different astrological configurations that significantly projected failure for mister kerry were dissed dismissed or vilified as heretics--now so many who didn't get their way are claiming they will leave the country--go! its not your country if you won't stay and fight--it's why you lost--slinging insults and name calling isn't fighting--Osama bin Laden greets new inductees into al quaeda with the promise of only two destinies await--either martyrdom or u.s. prison--still they join and that's probably why he will win--he also demands as their #1 duty an unflinching telling of the truth to your own nation--to distort the rules of astrology in an attempt to configure a pre held fantasy of who should win with who will win is running from the truth--the most intense part of a saturn return is not the first contact but the second after it goes direct from it's first retrograde--Bush's saturn return victory will indeed as i said before be seen by wonderboy as an apex of achievement but will be only the beginning of his fall--Bush's natal sun conjunct the u.s. natal sun does indicate destiny way more than venus transits ever could was continually ignored--your apology is accepted--you have many talents and I am sure you will do better next time--

W....this is just so pleasant to read, NOT....the most intense period of the Saturn retrograde is when it goes direct after the first Rx....and as of this moment, that is happening to me only right on my Jupiter. Which is of course in conjunction with Bush's Saturn. He brings such despair to my life and any feeling of expansion! Looks like it IS going to get worse for me, too....but at least I'll be able to watch his return, also.

Hi Judi
I was not trying to say those things don't matter. Not at all. (And who, after all, can say what the greater lesson for each individual is?)
What I mean is we can be agents for a broader, longterm global change in a disciplined, loving, spiritual manner, rather than fearful, raucous, or hateful. Ghandi may not have seemed to actively do much by sitting down, but his quiet, steady actions, combined with his intelligence, created a seismic shift politically. And it didn't happen overnight.

W,

What an @#% you are! No wonder you use the handle "W" --- it's such a fit...

There --- now that's name-calling, something you never before experienced here. Consider it a gift.

Nancy owes you no apology. You will not be allowed to come here and attack her.

If folks lost because they indulged in your kind of behavior (which I mirrored so nicely for you above, just so you'd recognize the real thing) ---arrogance and attack... why then, dubya would be the loser, wouldn't he?

How may I ask, have you come to be so acquainted with the requirements of OBL? Been there?

These are all rhetorical questions of course. You're not invited back. Personal attacks on our astrologers are not tolerated.

Perhaps this will help us all feel much better....I also sent Sally an action email from someone working out of CO which was terrific and I hope she posts it.
Dear NRDC Member,

"What's going to happen if President Bush is reelected?"

That's a question I heard a lot last month. My answer was simple: we'll be
shell-shocked for a day, and then NRDC will come out fighting for the
environment like there's no tomorrow.

Well, the shock has set in. We've spent the better part of four years
publicizing and challenging the president's assault on our environment. As a
tax-deductible organization, NRDC could not oppose or support a candidate for
president. But a lot of hopes were pinned on the ballot box as the fastest way
to terminate the Bush administration's anti-environment policies.

Those hopes were dashed this morning. The president has prevailed, despite his
horrific environmental record, which remains at odds with the views of the
overwhelming majority of Americans.

We're stunned not so much by the outcome itself. After all, President Bush was
a slight favorite to win this election. No, the look of distress on faces all
around NRDC's offices today is true alarm at what lies ahead. As
sweeping as this administration's attack on the environment has been, things
are about to get worse. Perhaps much worse.

It was only the threat of the ballot box -- of answering to the American
people -- that caused the Bush administration to backburner many of its most
destructive plans. The White House has already signaled that the attacks of the
past four years are but the leading edge of a much broader assault that will
come in a second term.

Look for it to begin over the next few months with rulemakings that would set
off an invasion of chainsaws and drilling rigs into our last wild national
forests . . . give polluters the right to keep spewing illegal tons of toxic
mercury into our air until at least 2025 . . . and allow water treatment plants
to dump virtually untreated sewage into our waterways.

So, yes, take one full day for feeling shell-shocked.

But prepare yourself. Tomorrow the battle will be joined. And we must be ready.

You can take heart in this: thanks to your support, NRDC has succeeded in
stalling, blocking or sinking the worst of President Bush's attempts so far to
dismantle our environmental laws.

And let me tell you, the second Bush administration will have to contend with
an NRDC that now wields the most potent combination of grassroots activism,
courtroom power and media outreach ever assembled by one public interest
organization.

That impressive operation -- one million Members and online activists, scores
of attorneys, the best rapid response operation in the business -- will be
focused like a laser on stopping the onslaught to come.

Failure is not an option. Everything we have fought for and achieved over the
past 35 years is at stake. In the weeks ahead, I will be reporting to you in
more detail on NRDC's action plan for defending our environment during
President Bush's second term.

But I can share one key element of that plan right now: you. We're counting on
you to stay the course with NRDC. We need your outrage. We need your activism.
We need your support. If we have all of those, we are going to prevail.

Sincerely,

John H. Adams
President
Natural Resources Defense Council

It also seems that Bush's planets are intensely tied with Osama Bin Ladens - destiny must play itself out. Bush will be in Jupiter bhutki until 2006 (according to Jagdesh) - so his fall will probably occur after this time??? or maybe not because he will move into a Saturn bhutki (and his Saturn has delivered good stuff for him thus far...do you have any predictions as to whether or not Bush will fall in the next 4 years Jagdesh?

PS - Bush is a Chimp!!!

Thank you, WV for your words of wisdom. Today has been the day from hell. I've been reaching to find something to hold onto, and your words fit the bill.

Of course you're right. This country has not yet learned its lessons. There's nowhere near enough humility; only division and separateness. Right now, the chasm between the have's and the have-not's is growing as big as the Grand Canyon.

But I have hope! Let's see how people feel 4 years from now, when the treasury is just about bankrupt. Our social programs will be gutted by then. (thank God I'm the independent type!)

As I reviewed my options today, trying to decide what to do about my 3 teenage "cannon fodder" boys, wondering if this web site will even be here as the Heavy Hand of the NeoCons reaches out to squash the Internet, one thing became crystal clear in my own mind.

MORE THAN EVER, I'm committing myself to the powers of righteousness, of a spiritual awakening that is already underway here on earth.

There is another ever-widening chasm here in the US; we have reached a fork in the road, we have to decide how we're going to live our lives. Will it be like the Bush Cabal, living ensnared by lies which only trap the perpetrators deeper and deeper, or prostituting themselves to the Almighty God of Mammon, who demands more of its follwers each day? I'm choosing to go my own way, whether the world likes it or not.

And please, everyone, let's try not to be so sensitive. I understand everyone's frustration today. We're all working for a change for the better. We're all on the same side!

+ give it some time. We may yet get to see karma get its due.

Jeanie....just wondering where your Mars is....Libra maybe? Nice and balanced....(not like me!....crazy warrior ready to throw the sword. We all have something to offer the situation....but we all have different ways of doing it. Anger has its uses...I don't think I was being hateful at all. Or did you mean something else? Anyway, I am the one who brought Gandhi up in the first place, way upthread....but just because I admire him doesn't mean I am like him!!!! But he certainly got angry in his life....but not raucous! I don't understand this need to calm everyone down....everyone calms down in their own way and own time...probably according to their Mars placements! (Gandhi's was in Scorpio)

An enormous storm has just hit SF....it sounds like hail!!!!

Try to post again.

There is a big Uranus direct on the 11th. The chart has Pluto on MH in 9th on Bush south Node.
Sun is in 8th.Mars is within minutes of 8th cusp.
The MH is sq Us Neptune.

I predicted Bush would steal the election. I was dead wrong on the Senate. But I also don't see him with that Inaguration Chart. So hang in there. I don't know exactly how but I belive Edwards is going to be president by spring. If not he will be in 2008.

I just want to thank all those posting last night; you were a true blessing to me . . .Lucy, You were particularly inspiring to me with your eternal optimism and JudiG you had some very insightful thoughts and comforting words for all. I was so nervous I did things I normally never do . . . I don’t drink, but I had a glass of wine and I don’t eat many sweets and I was eating Oreo’s. When I finally went to bed I was in a deep state of grief and really sick to my stomach. My sleep (when I finally drifted off) was like I was in the fog of a high fever . . . asleep but not asleep . . .wake but not awake. Truly Nightmarish

The phone started ringing early, first my best friend from college called. She lives in Philly and is a well-known African American civil rights attorney. She was in tears. She has already been experiencing how difficult the present Supreme Court has made proving discrimination. We talked and cried together. She has a 17-year-old son and like my own concerns for my son she is nervous for his future. We discussed how Roe v Wade would be history, along with so many other positive and socially progressive laws past and upheld by the Supreme Court in the last 45 years. As call after call from friends and family came they all echoed and mirrored my same thoughts and fears. My son called to say he would update his passport today and both my daughters called wanting me to know they were so proud to have been raised and nurtured by open minded and progressive parents. My husband called from Boston angry that JFK given up so soon. It was like a death had occurred and we were all mourning the loss of all the promise that was snatched away. I even skipped work today and went to lunch with a dear friend. But she was just as upset and angry and talked about moving to England with her husband an English citizen.

I was so very confident all day yesterday and could never have imagined that today I would be learning that JFK had given a concession speech. I am trying very hard not to give in to the depression and find something positive to hang on to. I refuse to watch or listen to any news programs and will probably not do so for days. To the credit of this site and all that post; I have found comfort here today. “Thank you all”
You give me hope knowing intelligent progressive minded people do exist in all areas of the United States.

this may be part of the karma Cliss refers to......let's get back to what we do best, AW's!!! :)

http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2004/3143cheney_indict.html

GO TRUTH!!!!

It seems that John Kerry's concession speach is just a formailty - not legal closure.

It's believed that K/E didn't want to bear the "sore loser" label that was tagged to Gore after the last round. Concession is not any form of binding agreement.

Judi - I hope you see this. I very much appreciate your comments. From what you've said about you, your life and your chart - advertising, looking for freelance, Gemini Sun, Scorpio rising?? - I've more or less connected you with my daughter (Gemini Sun, Pluto rising, advertising copywriter, married a Brit, moved to England, looking for freelance). Anyway, we are all volatile today, in shock really, can't imagine how the country could make such a stupid choice. Makes no sense at all. Sigh.

Okay we all need to laugh at this situation too...watch this video for a laugh:

http://www.richiebush.com/

*I am a double Gemini and laughing helps me to vent.

Thank you all again for posting how you feel and trying to figure this odd turn of events out via astrology and spiritual concepts.

Nexxus,

I believe you have brought the best news of the day re the concession speech, etc. That's right, if after all the counts, the investigations, the results might reflect a different winner. I won't cling to that, but nice to know Kerry didn't 'give up' --- that it is a formality, not legal closure. Thanks.

This is a very hard time for all of us and it gladdens my heart to see each of you come to grips with this as graciously (even though we are experiencing varying degrees of frustration, rage and pain which are obvious) as you are.

Today I received a letter from Ho-Ho. While it didn't make me break out into a smile, it did provide me with a better perspective. Remember: Obama got in (and I hope I live long enough to see him President), we have Tim Ryan and now other "new blood" dems elected and standing in line to be elected (and, yes, I am very aware that our "privilege" of voting might be abolished, but we have to keep struggling to make sure it won't be).

I am going to share Ho-Ho's letter with you in the the hope that it will have a steadying effect on you. And, please know that, while I do admire Ho-Ho very much, I am n.o.t. sharing this in any proselytizing way. We each choose the way to (continued) freedom that is most comfortable/natural for us.

Keep the faith!

"Montana, one of the reddest states, has a new Democratic governor.

"First-time candidates for state legislatures from Hawaii to Connecticut beat incumbent Republicans.

"And a record number of us voted to change course -- more Americans voted against George Bush than any sitting president in history.

"Today is not an ending.

"Regardless of the outcome yesterday, we have begun to revive our democracy. While we did not get the result we wanted in the presidential race, we laid the groundwork for a new generation of Democratic leaders.

"Democracy for America trained thousands of organizers and brought new leadership into the political process. And down the ballot, in state after state, we elected Dean Dozen candidates who will be the rising stars of the Democratic Party in years ahead.

"Tens of millions of us are disappointed today because we put so much of ourselves into this election. We donated money, we talked to friends, we knocked on doors. We invested ourselves in the political process.

"That process does not end today. These are not short-term investments. We will only create lasting change if that sense of obligation and responsibility becomes a permanent part of our lives.

"Martin Luther King, Jr. said, "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter."

"We will not be silent.

"Thank you for everything you did for our cause in this election. But we are not stopping here.

"Governor Howard Dean, M.D."

And, hey, you gotta admit he does have a good "bedside manner".

Thanks Jo,
...and we also all know from Kerry's chart that he is a fighter and giving up is not his style.

Great post Shylurker, maybe this is the awakening of the American people to finally get active and involved in the election process, the fire under our butts. We are all responsible for what happens in this country and what we do to other countries.

W:

By any chance does W stand for Wayne? Are you the fellow that has been having fun over at Astrodatabank with the other astrologers? Post after post........reams and reams of them with, of course, you backing your personal pick George Bush and accusing all other takers of really flawed astrological knowhow. Is that you Wayne?

HMMM! Well Wayne or W, if you prefer....Shoo....go away! No apologies here. You won....that should be sufficient. Ask yourself W....why isn't that enough? You have issues, I know. Take them to another board, prove your superiority elsewhere.

GO AWAY NOW!

Raj, your Nov 3 10:13pm post was food for mirth. It gave me a much needed laugh. Hope you're back to stay.

O.K.

I'm into my next phase. I went from chocolate/pasta to crying to philosophizing (sp?)

Now I'm into "what have I learned and what can I do?"

1. I learned that there are lots of people with similar beliefs who connect on sites like this.

2. I learned that I along with lots of others was not involved enough. I've been going about my life kind of "flat". Maybe we needed a cause to wake us up. We can't create change when we're asleep.

3. I learned how powerful the internet can be. We can make changes. We did it with Sinclair.
We can mobilize and let our voices be heard for other causes. WE can be really pesky nudges.

Let us not go quietly into the night ...

And let's stay awake!

Hi again Judi - my mars is actually in capricorn. I do have saturn, moon and neptune in Libra though (9th house). I used to, and sometimes still do, get REAL angry at injustices, (think chinese tiger protecting her cubs) but as the years go by I am learning that I am more effective directing that anger into constructive action & positive motivation for others. I'm also learning that timing is very important and that often it's the when one says what one says that determines the overall effectiveness.
I can only echo that times like these are a real downer and it will require internal fortitude to get through it. Everyone, can we commiserate without attacking each other?

Jeanie,

I would love it if we could all commisserate without attacking each other, but that's just not going to happen. There are those who have that disgusting "nah-nah-na-nah-nah" Junior High School attitude who'll puff out their collective chest and shout "I told you so!" (when they probably didn't) and get a tiny little smug, self-serving jolt out of it. And there will be people I've never before seen Post before who'll berate us for our wanting Kerry as Pres and insist they said W would win. My hope is that they'll slink back to their holes as quickly as they slithered out.

But what you see here is just a taste of what we have actively happening now in the Country. We ARE a divided nation ... there are those who are intelligent, caring and compassionate and then there are those who are stupid, short-sighted, avaricious and irritating. Until, of course, they become personally affected by dickWeed's decisions and then they'll turn to us Intelligent types and whine and question "what did I do to get this?" That's the way it's always been.

I'm sending light to those still struggling, courage to those still fighting and Peace to all who visit AstroWorld ... regardless of whether or not you respond in kind. :-)

I've been in shock for most of the day. I've now come to the conclusion that I'm going to start a gay underground railroad through my house near the Canadian border. I'm going to provide high heel orthotic footbeds in a men's size 15 so the drag queens can comfortably run for their lives across the border.

Seriously though, I think this represents a turning point for politics in this country. I think the Dean camp (the progressives further to the left) and the Wesley Clark camp (the Democrats closer to the middle) are through with the DLC. I'm remembering back to the primaries how both factions were encouraged to throw their support behind Kerry, and to their credit they did. I don't know what to think of Kerry now. Over and over we were told he was a fighter and that he wouldn't give up and he ended up folding faster than Gore. To me, though that doesn't even matter. I really believed that Bush masked his true nature in 2000 and stole the Presidency. I still believe that. But I was certain that after four years of seeing his character people would be largely united against him. Now I see I was wrong. I guess all it took was "gay marriage" to solidify his base. All I can say at this point is I'd rather have gone down in flames with Angry Howard.

Oh, and to all of those smug Bush fans and astrology slammers I say this. All of his life Bush has had other people bail him out of his failures. Well, this election was his chance to hand the mess over to Kerry. You want to keep the Iraq war and cherish your homophobic Jim Crow laws, well, you've got it. We'll just see how well Dubya is able to keep his plates spinning and play the moderates and the evangelicals against each other. The higher he flies the harder he is going to fall and he WILL fall.

Namaste~
Dommael

"I'm sending light to those still struggling, courage to those still fighting and Peace to all who visit AstroWorld ... regardless of whether or not you respond in kind. :-)"
..... thank you Jonathan

THE PREDICTIVE ASTROLOGER
Newsletter of the Academy of Predictive Astrology
and New Library London.

3/11/04: KERRY/BUSH ELECTION PREDICTION
This is a special note from the Editor of the Predictive Astrologer following on from the last issue. In that issue the following prediction was published:

"John Kerry will win the US presidency in November 2004. John Edwards will be Vice-President. John Kerry will not finish his term of office and John Edwards will succeed to the presidency."

There has now been a lot of email over this prediction and so, in an effort to stem the tide, I have prepared the following statement.

The prediction published in the newsletter came from the predictive circle, a group of astrologers in London and was largely based on the work of Luke Andrews of the Academy of Predictive Astrology.

Today's events have shown the prediction to be incorrect. It is not yet known what went wrong. The application of the techniques may be wrong, or the data that was used for Kerry may be wrong. I see that there is now widely varying birth data for Kerry. No doubt many of you will be investigating this.

It was my decision to include the prediction, with the intention to later publish the charts with an eye to examining fundamental metaphysical principles that are thought to underlie astrology. I saw that they [the predictive circle] had been right on Kerry winning the party nomination and then Edwards as the running mate etc. and so, took the leap and included the prediction; alone unfortunately, as there was not enough room to publish the charts/analysis this time around.

For this, I take full responsibly and no doubt there will be a lot of criticism - indeed the acrimony has already started. So I want to make my position clear.

I think that students learning astrology need good, solid examples so they can see the application of techniques applied and the more clear examples we have, the better the understanding. I also think that we will get it wrong and when we do, we have to look at our work again to uncover our mistakes. We must not be shy about admitting our errors. We hope our errors will encourage constructive debate and more importantly, lead to others not making those same mistakes. And all this needs to be out in the open.

So, I will still publish the charts with analysis, and endeavour to add more predictive examples in the coming issues of the newsletter. Good predictive astrology courses include chart examples, but these courses are essentially only repositories of information providing a core body of knowledge for the student. It is this core knowledge that we seek to augment. You can never have enough examples. For myself, I learn best through seeing the working of examples and I think this is common to a great many students, particularly those just starting out in astrology.

Nevertheless, I do feel a bit like a weather reporter, who has announced fine weather and instead it snows. Even the best of professionals get it wrong and the real test of their mettle, I believe, is that they accept their error and try to educate others on where they went wrong. I have enormous respect for these brave people who are prepared to go out into the wide world and make a definite statement, based on their Art and knowledge. More importantly, they are prepared to be wrong and take all the abuse and ridicule that is now, in the case of the predictive circle, flooding their way. I would also like to add a final comment, which was the root of my desire to publish their prediction - that is, even if they had the prediction right, that would in itself, not have proved anything. It would not have vindicated astrology, just as one wrong prediction does not destroy it, nor the hard, hard work that is done by so many to help raise up our Art.

Western predictive astrology is only now, once again, emerging out of the shadows. We are still learning so much and have a long way yet to go. But if we make it, I am convinced that the ramifications will have a profound effect on this world of ours.

Regards

Nicoline Eicke
Editor
Predictive Astrologer

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have since moved into my philisophical stage too and I'm now glad that Bush will have to finish his nasty war without Kerry to pick up his pieces. I think what scares us all is that now we fear that 50% of America is a stupid religous zealot. Church people scare me at this point. Anyone who is Christian must be insane (sorry to offend any bible type Christians out there) - but that is how I feel. Do you guys realize that 1 in 5 voters voted this time just to ban gay marriages or take the anti-abortion Bush ticket (ignoring the important stuff like almost 100,000 killed in Iraq, trillion dollar deficit, massive loss of jobs) What????????

But I am a fighter - and I will never give up fighting for compassion and peace even if we lose the vote time and time again.

Intelligence and Compassion must prevail over Stupidity and Hate.

PS - I like a good fight...so bring on the slammers, but I think many of them were merely predicting a Bush win by being objective, not supporting Bush.

You know what, people, what if it ain't over? What if, as Nancy wrote, there's a power struggle that culminates the 20th to the 25th of this month? What if some harrowing news surfaces about election theft that prompts Kerry to reconsider his concession (which isn't, as previously stated, legally binding) and open up the avenue of investigation? What if ... what if ... what if these astrologers were right?! It's only the first day, guys. The journey may not be over. And Kerry may end up being the fighter I believe he is after all.

What if his "folding" is a ruse to catch the Repugs off-guard? They'll be so soaked in fine French champagne and bloated with self-congratulation that when Kerry comes back with evidence of voter fraud/vote tampering, they're caught flat-footed and won't have a response at the ready. What if, what if, what if ...

Wanted to mention a pre-election prediction by one of the best vedic astrologers out there, Chakrapani Ullal - his prediction chilled me because I knew he is one of the best and he did predict a slight edge for Bush in this election. See article below: (this is a great learning tool as well)

Comments on the 2004 US Election

by Chakrapani Ullal

Written May 31st 2004

The world will be watching the United States forthcoming election on November 2, 2004 with baited breath. The chief contestants appear to be John Kerry (December 11, 1943 at 7:10am, Denver, CO) and George W. Bush (July 6, 1946 at 7:26am in New Haven, CT).

John Kerry has Scorpio rising with Sun in the rising sign. Mars, ruler of the rising sign is retrograde in the 7th house with exalted Moon in Taurus. The Sun, being the ruler of the 10th house is occupying the rising sign in the constellation of Mercury. The 10th house is occupied by benevolent Jupiter, occupying the constellation of Ketu. The planet of democracy, Saturn, being in the 8th house is retrograde and aspected by the 8th house ruler Mercury. The disposition of these planets appear to be very powerful, creating many raja yogas – planetary combinations for power, position and status in life.

The rising sign ruler, Mars, is in mutual aspect with the Sun, ruler of the 10th house, creating a powerful raja yoga which has the energy to bring the highest political position. He has the Moon, the ruler of the 9th house placed in an exalted position in the 7th house opposite the Sun, the ruler of the 10th house, creating another powerful raja yoga. When the 9th and 10th house rulers are mutually connected it creates a highly effective yoga called a dharma/karma yoga which brings the opportunity to become successful, gaining significant position and importance. Moreover, the Moon and the Sun are called the royal planets, they are prominently disposed in relation to the rising sign. In addition, the ruler of the rising sign, Mars, is in conjunction with the ruler of the 9th house, the Moon, in the 7th house aspecting the rising sign very strongly. This creates two more powerful yogas, one is Bhagya yoga, a yoga for good luck and good fortune and the other is a Sashi/Mangala yoga, which brings the fulfillment of desires. They are in Taurus, who’s ruler Venus is occupying its own sign in the 12th house.

His rising sign ruler Mars, which is also the ruler of the 6th house, is retrograde in the natal chart. Transiting Mars during the time of election is placed in Libra associated with debilitated Sun and Ketu. And Venus, the ruler of Libra, is debilitated in Virgo aspected by transiting Saturn. This means that Mars is not favorably placed – it is in the 12th from the rising sign indicating the challenges he is facing in the election with regard to visible and invisible enemies.

Saturn, the planet of democracy, is placed in the 8th house from his rising sign and it is retrograde. In the Bhava Chart, Saturn is placed in the 7th house. At the time of birth Saturn was therefore creating Sade Sadi from the Moon as well as Ashtama Shani from the rising sign. This weak Saturn is aspected from the 2nd house by Mercury, which is a malefic for this chart. Since he is passing through Mercury/Mercury the malefic nature of this Mercury becomes more visible. However, he has benevolent Jupiter aspecting its own sign, Sagittarius, where Mercury is placed bringing some positive influence to this Mercury which can bring hopefulness for Mercury to have an impact on the electorate. We also notice that both Mercury and Jupiter are occupying the constellations of Ketu which is occupying Capricorn, ruled by Saturn.

This disposition of the planets with so many raja yogas is sure indication of the capacity to gain the highest position in the political field if the Dasha/Bhukti as well as the transits of the planets are favorable at the time of election. Currently, John Kerry is passing through the major cycle of Mercury which began May 2003 and will continue through May 2020. In this major dasa of Mercury he is passing through the bhukti of Mercury until October 2005 and the Antardasa of Rahu beginning September 15th, 2004 to January 25, 2005. Mercury is not a benevolent planet for Scorpio rising and Mercury and Rahu are not friendly to one another.

When we look at the Dasamsa chart, the chart for power and status, he has Aquarius rising with Ketu in the rising sign. Retrograde Saturn and retrograde Mars are in the 5th house with Saturn aspecting Rahu in the 7th house which does not show strength in the dasamsa chart during election time since the Rahu Antardasa is running.

Fortunately for Kerry, benevolent Jupiter will be transiting Virgo, his 11th house from the rising and the 5th house from his Moon sign, enhancing his potential. Jupiter passes through Virgo from the end of August 2004 to the beginning of September 2005.

Overall it looks as though John Kerry has an excellent chart with a good possibility of gaining the highest post but let us now look into the chart of the opponent.

President George W. Bush has Cancer rising with Saturn, Mercury and Venus in the rising sign and Mars in Leo in the 2nd house, Jupiter and the Moon in Virgo in the 3rd house, Ketu in Scorpio with Rahu in Taurus, the Sun in Gemini.

Currently, the president is passing through the major dasa of Saturn which started in 1987 and continues to influence until May 2006. Saturn is the ruler of the 7th house, which is benevolent, and the 8th house, which is malefic, but placed in the rising sign in the constellation of Saturn itself which gives it strength. Saturn is also the ruler of the 5th and the 6th houses from the Moon sign and well placed in the 11th house from the Moon in conjunction with Mercury which has a positive influence. In the dasa of Saturn he is passing through the bhukti of Jupiter which has been operating from November 3, 2003 until May 16th 2006 and the Mercury Antardasa beginning July 30th 2004 to December 8th 2004.

Jupiter is powerfully placed in the 3rd house aspecting its own house, the 9th, the house of good luck and good fortune very strongly. Even through it is also the ruler of the 6th house its aspect on its own house has strengthened its position as the ruler of the 9th house which has the power to give highly beneficial results. Jupiter is also closely conjunct the Moon, ruler of the rising sign thereby creating a powerful Gajakesari yoga which has the power to bring people into prominent position. Since the Moon, ruler of the rising sign, and Mercury, the ruler of the Moon sign, have exchanged signs with a 3/11 relationship to one another it has added to the strength of the Mercury.

Jupiter and the Moon are both occupying the constellation of Mars. Mars is called the Yogakaraka planet for one born with Cancer rising. The Yogakaraka planet is that planet which has the power to bring positions of status. And Mars is well placed in the natal chart in the 2nd house in Leo, a friendly sign to Mars. Jupiter and the Moon placed in the constellation of Mars, the ruler of the 10th house and the most benevolent planet for Cancer rising, brings a yoga for accomplishment and success.

Currently, Saturn in transit is passing through Gemini and it is affecting Bush badly, bringing a lot of negative publicity. It has definitely influenced his rating. However, during the time of the election Saturn will be in his rising sign, exactly at the same degree that it was occupying at the time of his birth. This helps him significantly to increase his chances of winning the election. Added to that, during election time Jupiter in transit will be in Virgo where Bush has Jupiter in the natal chart. That again increases the power of the Jupiter.

In the dasamsa chart he has vargottama Cancer rising with exalted Mars and debilitated Jupiter aspecting the rising sign very strongly and debilitated Saturn in the 10th house. However, both Saturn and Jupiter have Neecha Bhanga, the cancellation of the debilitation.

Overall, John Kerry has many raja yogas going for him in his chart which naturally gives him the capacity to attain the highest position in politics, but the weakness of the Mercury/Mercury dasa/bhukti has the ability to block the effects of the powerful yogas to bring the desired results. However, in the case of George Bush, from the Moon sign Saturn, Venus and Mercury in the 11th house has created a powerful raja yoga and his Saturn has benefited him since his Saturn dasa started in 1987. Currently, he is in the last bhukti of Saturn which is Jupiter, operating until 2006. Since Jupiter is associated with the Moon, the ruler of the rising sign, it could naturally give him advantage during this bhukti.

These two charts show that the race will be neck and neck. Therefore, even though it is difficult to determine who will win, my best judgment says that George Bush may have an edge over John Kerry.

Astrology is a science of indications only, it does not say a particular thing will happen it only says that it can happen. But the difference between the “will” and the “can” is the will of the person. An astrologer must have an unbiased mind and judge only the influence of the planets, he must not judge the person in making predictions.

http://www.chakrapani.com/

I just sent this as a reply to a snotty little 30 something Republican co-worker's snide e-mail jibe about Bush's "victory". It just seemed to sum up my feelings. I'm in a combative mood at the moment:

Defeat, Dissent And
The Bush Machine
By Chris Floyd
The Moscow Times
11-3-4

Well, that's it. The great American electoral agony is over at last. Now George W. Bush - the duly elected, finally legitimate president of the United States - can get back to doing what he does best: killing people for corporate profit and personal aggrandizement.

Yes, it's a hard blow for the world. Yes, it's a deep shame for American democracy, poisoned by lies, fear, greed and hysteria. Yes, it means that tens of thousands of innocent people will now be killed--by more war, more neglect, more ignorance, more repression, more brutality, more hatred, more fanaticism. Yes, it means that the planet will be gashed with more wounds, smeared with more filth, left to wither and die. Yes, it's a giant step backward for the human spirit, back to the muck of arbitrary rule by vicious elites and their ham-fisted goons, their well-wadded courtiers, their yapping sycophants. Yes, it means that somewhere out there, in the blood-dimmed haze of a dark age falling, Lucifer and bin Laden are lighting cigars and raising a glass to toast the victory of their good friend George.

These are the facts, and they can't be altered. But how to respond to this catastrophe? Shall we weep, moan, rend our garments, cover ourselves with sackcloth and ashes? Shall we sit upon the ground and tell sad stories of the death of republics? Shall we cower in the shadows and sing glamorous dirges for the Lost Cause, for vanished glories and broken dreams?

Or shall we come out fighting, unbowed, heads high, laughing fools to scorn, rejecting at every turn the moral authority of murderers and thieves to rule our lives, determine our reality, act in our name? Let's dispense with lamentation--give not a single moment to that emotional indulgence--and get right back to work, more determined than ever to bear down harder, dig deeper and excavate the radioactive nuggets of truth still glowing beneath the slag-heap of ruin that Bush and his terrorist partners have made of the world.

Let's fight, let's reject, let's resist--without violence, the weapon of the stupid, the hormonal secretion of evolutionary backsliders in thrall to the chemical soup in their heads, dull primitives dressing up their ape-lust for power with scraps of religion, philosophy and cant. Let's fight these pathetic, malfunctioning wretches who lay their hands on our world and rape it like beasts in mindless rut. Fight them with the truths we find, exposing their crimes and deadly hypocrisies to the people they've suckered, perverted and betrayed.

This is not an insurmountable task, no matter how impervious the Bush Machine--that monstrous conglomeration of judicial bagmen, Congressional rubber-stamps, hard-right media moguls, dopehead radio ranters, sex-crazed theocrats, neo-conservatives, neo-Confederates, war profiteers, think-tank bleaters, Wall Street sharks, oilmen, Moonies, gun nuts and woman-haters--might appear at the moment. Let's look at the facts. Despite four years of the most relentless barrage of propaganda, deceit, misinformation and fearmongering ever hurled against a free society, more than 54 million people voted to reject Bush and all his works: his Hitlerite policy of aggressive war; his gulag system of torture and lawless detention; his savage assault on civil rights, the environment, working people and the poor; his systematic destruction of social programs; his transfer of sovereignty from individuals and communities to the iron grip of his corporate donors; his trashing of hard-won international agreements on nuclear weapons, conventional arms, war crimes, global warming, the rights of women and the protection of children; his unleashing of rabid religious zealots into the bowels of government to set policies on science, health, education, welfare, while sucking up billions in public money to fund their sectarian causes.

Such mass dissent--even in "wartime," in the face of the Machine--is surely cause for hope. Moreover, recent academic studies show that a large majority of Bush supporters actually disagree with him on everything from the Kyoto treaty to missile defense to international law to workers' rights--but somehow believe that he shares their views. Most Bush-backers also still believe that Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda colluded in the September 11 attacks and that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction--yet this same majority says that the conquest of Iraq would be illegitimate if there were no WMD and no 9/11 connection. Thus more than half of the Bush voters on Tuesday oppose his actual policies, including the criminal war in Iraq--they just don't know it yet, because they're mired in carefully-cultivated delusion.

Of course, many Bush voters are willfully deluded, glad to be suckered and betrayed. They love the ludicrous puppet-show of his supposed greatness, his all-seeing wisdom, his mandate from God. They get teary-eyed at the thought of his honesty and goodness--while he kills 100,000 innocent people in Iraq, as a new medical study shows, with a brutally stupid military aggression based on lies and fantasies, fomenting more terrorism with each new barbarity and gorging his cronies on blood money. This hard core will never respond to the truth.

But if we can enlighten even the smallest percentage of Bush's razor-thin majority, then support for his murderous folly and waste will quickly erode. One by one, the puppet-strings will snap, and America's headlong plunge into tyranny, bigotry and endless imperial war can perhaps--perhaps--be halted, even reversed.

It's worth the fight. Let's take it on. In the words of the old spiritual, let us be in no ways tired. The road back to sanity and justice starts now.

Chris Floyd is a columnist for the Moscow Times and a regular contributor to CounterPunch. His new book, Empire Burlesque: The Secret History of the Bush Regime, is now available at www.globaleyefloyd

hi guys. pretty dramatic miserable election!
i dont have much to say.
mimi

Hi everyone,

I've been seething all day. While I was working I was envisioning that Kerry knew something and was waiting for all the evidence to come in. Alas, he may have, but, in true Kerry fashion, he acquiesed. I believe he is waiting to fight another day. Perhaps when all the Repug senators look at him in the chamber when he's proven right about * and crew.

Anyway, here in the microcosom that is America's future(Utah),all the mormons feel that God is with them. As for this pagan, I've decided to begin shopping for just a few assault rifles and the like. As KM says in her vision, I'm one of the warriors and I'm just not evolved enough to resist like a Gahndi just yet. I have chosen to assert my 2nd amendment rights just in case.

Here's my prediction for the next four years.

The terror level will be raised to Red as there is credible intelligence about the entrance into the country of a single or group of terroists with what appears to be a nuclear device.
Marshall law will be enacted, the constitution suspended, and the beginning of the rounding up of all people of middle eastern descent. Eventually this will include any and all sympathizers, ie., black muslims, most people of color in one form or another, any that protest such actions will also be "detained" for reasons of national security. The implementation of "Rex84" will be in full swing. The camps will begin to fill and a defacto war state will ensue.

As for me, by then I will have headed into the desert towards the mountains where I hope to join with others to form the future resistance. Any takers?

Mark S.
southern Utah pagan/astrologer

Jonathan! This is the BEST I've ever seen you....terrific observation! Whoooeeee!
WV....you are terrific, and Dommael, the Quakers had an underground railroad once upon a time in Ohio that did a hellalotta good so go for it! Or stay for it....stay and fight, stay and fight, click your heels together, Dorothy, and stay and fight!

The recrimations have started, though...just got an email from Arianna Huffington reaming out the Kerry/Edwards team....it you can bear to read it, it is actually positive in the end. But I still say something smells to high heaven about this election, right Jonathan?

Bushfatigued....we will have to just fight.....I talked to my ex in NYC...do you know that what they voted on were PUNCHCARD machines? I was shocked...we have the most modern voting machines in South San Francisco....and he is in NEW YORK....I was so shocked. But everyone is depressed and shocked. He had gotten a 21 year old receptionist in his office in midtown Manhattan to register and vote....she was so upset that she said she wouldn't ever vote again. So he told her, no, you will....and those 2 best friends of yours who DIDN"T vote? You are going to register THEM...that will get you going again...."

Jeanie...I understand a Capricorn mars....it fits, too! Especially in the social sense...social justice. But you won't get everyone to agree to be 'nice'!!!

oh..here is the part where you laugh...

SF Chronicle online poll earlier today was: Which inspirational
song are you humming today? "God Bless America" got 16 pct, "Heaven Help Us All" 42 pct, "O Canada" 43 pct

Jean, in regards to what you said up post, this bit by Maya Del Mar you may find interesting. It is not that I don't see another Bush term, but rather that Kerry and Edwards are not going to fade away either. Maybe we'll all get a clue when Uranus goes direct?

http://www.daykeeperjournal.com/retrogrades.shtml

Uranus turns direct on November 11, after five months of traveling retrograde. In early June 2004, while Uranus stationed retrograde, we had another huge upsurge in violence in both Israel-Palestine and Iraq. Uranus then turned retrograde at 7 Pisces. Now it will turn direct at 3 Pisces. Thus it re-covers the degrees between 3-7 Pisces. These degrees connect closely with both John Kerry’s and John Edwards’ charts (rather than with the charts of the U.S. or Bush).

It is certain that some surprise will happen when Uranus turns direct. It always does. Uranus represents independence, and sudden change.

Two more emails to make your day: from a friend in Seattle about a conversation with his son:
I was singing the Blues to Josh my son and he stopped me short! "WELL DAD THAT‚S JUST NOT GOING TO HELP! HEH WHO'S UP FOR RE-ELECTION NEXT TIME? .........told him SENATOR CANTWELL.............."WELL I JUST NEED TO START WORKING FOR HER NEXT TIME" ...Wow what steel!!! Amazing!! Alan

and from another, proof that some ARE as dumb as a box of hammers:

I have a friend that is a yellow-dog republican. He really believes that the Kerry plan was to confiscate all privately owned guns and turn over the U.S. Guv'mint to the UN. I know him well enough to know that he really believes that bullshit, not just saying it. He claims that Kerry saying we shouldn't take military action unless approved by the UN, and Kerry voting for the assault gun ban, is all the proof there is and anyone that believes otherwise is either decieved, not paying attention, or part of the plot. Both of those premises are quit a stretch for me to believe.  

As I was scanning all the posts, I just saw the name of the astrologer that I was trying to remember, who had posted a comment on this site a while ago around the time that Arnold was running for governor of CA. Her name was Claudia. She also had her own website. Don't know if she still does - I forgot the website address, and I haven't been on the internet for a long time, so I don't know if she's still around. Anyway, she had posted a very interesting commentary here concerning the dark times that we were in with Bush and the neocons, and she had said not to expect change too soon; that it would be a long while before America emerges from under this cloud. I think she said it had to do with Pluto, and maybe another planet as well. It may be somewhere in the archives on this site, but I'm sure some of the old timers here, or the resident astrologers remember what I'm talking about. Does anyone know if Claudia still has her own website? And does she still visit this site as a guest astrologer?

Last year, in November, I predicted on this site that George Bush would be re-elected.

http://www.astroworld.us/archives/000333.html#000333

My article received a tepid response and I realized then that astrology is not the primary focus of this forum - it is more of an activist outpost where participants use various means -including astrology - to keep themselves motivated.

Will be interesting to see how the site evolves in the future.

Dommael - your note about the Gay underground railroad and the shoes made me laugh so much and put a smile on my face for the first time in two days! Thank you for that! I have calmed down since the disaster of last night and am now mad at myself for having stuffed my face all night with cookies and half a box of chocolate and I'm not even going into the half dozen other things that were flying out of the fridge as the election results went up and down. I got on the scale this morning and I gained 5 pounds. So, now today a new reason to hate Bush even more for what he has done. Today my husband came home from work early. The groups of Fundie and Bush supporters had actually brought in a cake and balloons and were celebrating "their" victory. My husband refused to have cake with them and mentioned that it was no celebration for him with all the people dying every day in Iraq and now more to come in 4 more years. That caused several people to explode at him as he was accused of being a 'terrorist supporter' for supporting Kerry! That lead to rants by several people about "getting them all" in Iraq and taking the French and Germans with them! These are highly educated people - but also examples of the new "Fundies" that support Bush - one even an Elder in his rapture church! We may be looking for an underground railway ourselves soon as we are in the middle of all this crazy stuff here!

Just one more thought before I leave my soap box and eat dinner: I have a difficult time reconciling the John Kerry and John Edwards I've learned so much about with the breathtakingly quick concession speech we saw today. The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced they "conceded" to 1) take themselves out of the game, so to speak, so they can compile all the irrefutable evidence they need to slam the Repugs for their inevitable voting irregularities and 2) catch the Repugs off-guard, make them angry when they resurface a la Gore in 2000 (Bush: "You CAN'T concede and then take it back!") and begin the fight again ... ARMED with evidence the Repugs will have a hard time responding to. I mean, think about it, how angry is Bush gonna be when he's interrupted from planning World Domination by Kerry and all those angry, disenfranchised voters. That Pluto on the South Node has to mean something, right? Maybe stealing the election this time won't work for him after it looks like it would!

I just don't believe after all that's happened coupled with their personal histories (two incredibly bright, crafty and determined attorneys) that these two men would cave that easily and that quickly. It just doesn't "feel" right, you know? Oh, to be a fly on the wall in the Kerry HQ with all those attorneys and Democratic minds pouring over the data, affadavits, etc. from Ohio and Florida. :-)

I'll write more later. Uranus Direct on the 11th, huh? Hmmmmmmm ...

Jonathan,

I really want to believe with what you are saying. But it would mean I'm back to denial stage.. and I've been on a rollercoaster from shock denial anger back to shock all day.

The Bush admin *has* to have spies inside the Kerry camp, so it would leak out fast if they were trying to do that.

But boy do I wish for justice to be made

Nexxus and Jonathan - you have indeed brought good news to consider on a rather gloomy day regarding Kerry and Edwards maybe not being down and out completely yet! I was a bit shocked and saddened to see Kerry give up so easily and thought the great Swift Boat Captain with all the Purple Hearts deserved to give us something more than this for these months of support we all gave him and Edwards. Do I dare hope that things may not be as they seem and there is yet a glimmer of hope on this horizon? Would make all the binge eating last night and the 5 extra pounds worth it then ... I'll keep a flicker of hope going that something wonderful this way comes when we least expect it!

Okay, here's the story from Florida

You have no idea how many volunteers REALLY
WORKED . worked our buns off.

We didn't have exit polls in places where they should have been.

Broward County including Hispanics went 85% for Kerry

Palm Beach County despite Rabbis and Ministers telling their congregations to vote for BUsh went heavily black, Haitian and Jewish
for Kerry - and I mean heavily.

I was poll watcher at a mostly Haitian site where there were three precincts and 8 machines.

one machine was broken slowing down voting in that precinct to 2 1/2 hour wait.

And leaving 7 machines for three districts.

Inside poll watcher came out to tell me that in his district, 800 people, everyone standing on line was holding or at the machines using the blue color DEM palm ticket I had given them outside. He was thrilled.

the week before I had handed out about 1500 of these palm tickets in
a Jewish area. They came and asked for them.

Every Haitian or African American that went into vote stopped and took a DEM voting/palm ticket at the polls....I'd say about 2500 to 2700 for the entire three districts.We had to photocopy more because we didn't have enough for the demand.

During early voting which started OCt 18, when you heard there were 3 hour waits, there was and more; I handed out the same palm tickets in Palm Beach. 99% of the people going into those polls - hundreds and hundreds, stopped and took the dem palm ticket from me. Hardly any republicans in either place.

Again there, Theresa Le Poore only placed 12 machines for voters by the thousands and 4 were broken.

Electronic machines, no paper trail.

Early voting in several counties in North Florida also went Kerry (unusual).

60,000 ballots lost in post office. Voting day, thousands arrived at the PO to be sent to absentee voters. Of course they would never arrive in time for voting. These were for shut ins, out of staters etc.

Theresa LePore threw out 14,000 applications for voting early on.

We took Palm Beach County by a landslide. But there was one very very suspicious thing. I was assigned to a "targeted" area. Targeted because it's targeted by the repugnants to stop the black people from voting...

Where at the early voting republican poll watchers had been outside harrassing Kerry poll watchers....ON VOTING DAY THERE WERE NO REPUBLICAN POLL WORKERS OUTSIDE THE TARGETED AREAS. I mentioned this to others, wondering what was up. It was highly unusual that not one was there.

Polls stayed open til 7 and as I mentioned it was one wonderful stream of people of color voting, and voting, and young black hip hop guys too, who you wouldn't think would. They did.
you tell me what happened. Neptune Direct.

At 6 PM with one hour to go of voting, the word was FIRST passed down to us that the electronic machines were not always recording what the people were voting and to be sure to tell them to check the final summary page, showing your choices. A little late, eh what?

Better yet, ask Bev Harriss " Black Box Voting" what happened.

But worst of all Kerry didn't wait for all the military and absentee ballots to be counted - he should have waited 11 days. He was only 2 electoral votes behind the bastid.

Didn't want to divide the country anymore???????

Bull. It couldnt be any more divided.

He needed to fight for us,
but he did the exact same thing Gore did. Layed down and rolled over.

What are the Gestapo threatening them with? blackmail ? Harm to Family? Doesn't make sense.

He said he would fight and he didn't . He said he had 10,000 lawyers (and believe me, a lot of them were down here, and he didnt use them
to mount legal challenges.

IMHO Voting is now a sham.

Democracy in this country is over.

Astrologer Michael Lutin is right. Clinton was and will be the last duly, truly elected president of the United States.

I'm renewing my passport.

Was Kerry a stalking horse?

that thought passed my mind - could it possibly have been a stalking horse?

how incredible -

but we have seen that the world is upside down and the " impossibly outrageous" seems to have become the norm.

nothing is impossible.

I have been asked to work on the next election ---2006.

laughable.

Unless there is a new party (and I dont care whether it's called party of the people, or old democrats or new democrats or neo-democrats) -- I'm through with working for the democratic party - it's just another political hack party with a past reputation of being for the people. The only people it is for anymore is itself,
and like the republicans, for whichever lobbyist is paying them best.

Speaking of that, I'm glad Daschle and his lobbyist wife are gone.It will be interesting to see which lobby Daschle signs up with.

Last night women left the Kerry HQ crying.

I left a 1 AM when James Carville said " It has not been a good day for democrats". When Carville
throws in the towel, you know it's over.

Finally, I have just received a call from a friend
who told me of her daughter-in-law, who lives in New York State, attending a PTA this morning. They handed out black armbands. Each woman took one and left.

How appropriate for the day of the death of democracy in this country.

This from BoingBoing

. "I was making coffee with one eye on CNN when the news broke, and I called my dad, a man who's spent many years fighting for good things, sometimes at great personal cost.

"Get over it," he said, "The way you feel now is exactly how I felt when Nixon won a second term -- crushed. I just couldn't believe America was that stupid. "But remember what happened to Nixon that term."

"Change comes from discontent," he said. "And right now, there's a lot of discontent."

Don't forget,

To check out the radio show from Rick Levine and Jeff Jawer

http://www.stariq.com/startalkers/59-StarTalkers.asx

Crystal, sounds like you mean Claudia Dikinis. Her website is http://www.starcats.com

Judi G, WV, others --

GWB did not prevail. He cheated, as always.

There is a profound difference.

I've suffered the experience of the tarot card "The Star" reversed: Hopes and dreams dashed!

What I need now, desperately, is a direction. Somewhere to go, something to do. Can anyone help me with that?

Crystal....Star Cats...Claudia Dikins

BTW..Claudia Dikinis wrote this on Sept 17
http://starcats.com/newsmakers.html:

Crystal....Star Cats...Claudia Dikins

BTW..Claudia Dikinis wrote this on Sept 17
http://starcats.com/newsmakers.html:

I tried the link http://starcats.com/newsmakers.html:
but was unable to access the article.

Lakiri, this is RIGHT NOW, a site for support. Perhaps it will be a site for activism. It is what it is....your article was excellent. Just that most of us didn't actually ever see it. Sally doesn't say it is one thing or another....but good observation anyway, and it brings so many different voices in......

Again, I just think that two men who've spent their lives either championing the Under Dog against Big Corporations (Edwards) or enduring Election after Election for 20 years and prosecuting folks like the mafia and on such high-profile cases like Iran-Contra and BCCI (Kerry) wouldn't lay down their arms, so to speak, that easily! It just doesn't make sense! And when you have the Clinton team on your side (no strangers to gutter politics) and attorneys like David Boies, something, SOMETHING has to be happening that we're not yet aware of and won't hear about until Uranus goes Direct.

As for spies, the Kerry camp isn't stupid. And, besides, they've conceded so the group surrounding them has thinned somewhat. I think what we're witnessing is the biggest Fake-Out in Political History. Take down the big tent, send your folks home, concede graciously and emotionally ... and have a very small, very loyal, incredibly bright and cunning group working behind the scenes to gather irrefutable info on voter fraud and then come out and "question", publicly and in the full glare of the media, the results.

Something just doesn't feel right about Kerry conceding this early. Perhaps it's hope against hope, but that inner alarm bell that tells me it ain't over keeps going off.

I guess we'll see, huh? Damn! The emotional burden of living in Memorable Times! Grrrrrrrrrrr ... chocolate and pasta is sounding mighty good right now.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections2004/markosmoulitsas/story/0,15139,1342263,00.html

Divide and rule ... for now

Bush may have steamrollered his way back into the White House, but his re-election will further galvanise the resurgence of progressive opposition, writes US blogger Markos Moulitsas

More....

Pallas18

Thank you for all your hard work and your report from the front lines in Florida. My husband is voicing exactly the same sentiments “US Elections are now fixed to the point where voting is just an exercise in futility” He called tonight from Boston and he is burning red hot with anger. He felt Kerry did not have the right to throw in the towel just yet. He’s ready for a new progressive party. Maybe Dr. Dean and Joe Tripp will help pioneer a new progressive moment. By the By. . .Check out San Miguel De Allende, Mexico. . . a bit of heaven South of the Border.

from DU...a post from Europe:
Here is an email from my friends in Switzerland:

"May God forgive the American people, because Europe certainly, will
not."

Pallas, I echo Bushfatigued...and I should alert all of you that DU has a big forum going on over the exit poll discrepency which is skewed IN EVERY close state with Electronic Voting machines 5% Bush! There is a link from the home page down a bit...you can't miss it.

Pallas, I echo Bushfatigued...and I should alert all of you that DU has a big forum going on over the exit poll discrepency which is skewed IN EVERY close state with Electronic Voting machines 5% Bush! There is a link from the home page down a bit...you can't miss it.

I keep thinking back to the cabal players and when they got their start in political dirty deeds.
While Kerry was in vietnam, 1969, Cheney was cozying up to the power brokers in DC. Curious that he manoevered out of dodge in 1973 when the agnew and watergate meltdowns happened (as did rumsfeld who took an ambassadorship to NATO), only to reappear to a position of power after Agnew and Nixon were gone. Someone or something kept them 'clean.'
Kerry's role then was to expose the dirty laundry of vietnam, which made things difficult for them. I too cannot see Kerry just dropping this seeming electoral fraud. Perhaps in public yes, but not behind the scenes. Poison administered during the night is more effective than confrontational swordplay.
I wonder what aspects for all of them that were in play during those years, are also in play now?

no finger pointing, i told you so's, etc. by ANYBODY until you've meditated on the following for a reasonable period of time:

----------------------------------------

Corporate America controls the media and we get manufactured news.

Corporate America now controls the voting machines and we get manufactured elections.

----------------------------------------

i would personally like to thank sally and nancy from the bottom of my heart for all of their efforts. in light of the above 'ray of truty' from me, mike, i must say that we won't know how this election rally came out for a while; but we will know.

thank you both for being the backbone of this wonderful, enriching dialog...and thank you sally for astroworld!

See...I told you I echoed!
Jonathan...I still love your theory....but I wonder if the fix really WAS in? Anyway....check out the Onion: http://www.theonion.com/
Electile Dysfunction: mixed messages for the masses.
I can't keep this up much longer, I am sitting in my studio nearly frozen with no heat....

Dear all,
I have often tuned into this site for comfort and information and good old fashioned learning new astrology all the while. I too have felt the whole range of emotions, from disbelief, anger, tears, heaviness in the solar plexus, no sleep...anger at astrology and astrologers, more comfort in a gooey chocolate brownie, a brisk walk cursing god (what ever that means.) And I realize that all of us are going through the various stages of grief. Blame, forgiveness, more blame...the machines, the astrologers, the psychics, John Kerry, the Rothchilds, Diebold...leading to ultimately analysis, self-analysis and taking our own inventory. Through all of this I realize we are doing healthy things. And we are not silent. Good. I also am not a great astrologer, but I do see Pluto by transit in our first house (Sag rising, changing us. It's first manifestation hinted at when it was still in our 12th house and Reagan was President. It is being disposed of by Jupiter conjunct our Sun in Cancer. A very reactive, "patriotic" sign and all the attendent sins of zealousness, religiosity (sp?)... Using God to justify the present reations of the "heartland", using prayer to bend the universe to our will and so on and so forth. I don't see that this can be avoided, but I do see that we "the moon," disposed of by Saturn and Uranus can alter the situation...make it into a higher octave of the same energy. The Pluto square the natal Neptune can also be seen as being disposed of in a similar fashion...Neptune in Virgo in the 9th being disposed of by Mercury in late Cancer, which is in turn disposed of by the Moon in Aquarius...again Saturn and Uranus as the two rulers. These two planets will tell the story: and I guess, if I can I will try to change their octave of expression in my little part of the world. The first thing I'm going to do after a good night's sleep is to write all the net works and blogs about the incredible split between the exit polls and the mysterious voting machines whose votes are vaporized or unreachable somehow. As it stands now, we have a fundamentalist "fighting" a fundamentalist. Same script, different religion. And the irony is not lost on me that the very complaints uttered by many reactive fundamentalist Muslims are the very same complaints the Bible belt supporters of Bush have uttered against the dirty "liberals," who have no "values." So Pluto in Sag disposed of by Jupiter in chauvenistic Cancer and Pluto in Sag squaring mystical Neptune in Virgo disposed of by Mercury in chauvenistic Cancer which is disposed of by (again) an electric Moon in Aquarius and a Saturn in Libra will ask us to challenge the law, the courts, the press, and the head of state deliberately and creatively and artistically...or something like that. I grow weary with my own blathering. Time for another brownie. P.S. I am not offended by anybody's rants...frankly, I just think it is part of a very healthy process of which blame is but one step along the way. May the Gods inform our next step.

I know everyone is really upset today, and I wish I could find the exact right words to help. But what I can do maybe is to offer the reminder that it is our systems that are broke and that they are all being dismantled in order to usher in the better way. I love all you people, with your passions and gifts and hearts on your sleeves. It's going to be okay, eventually.

oh beasley, we are on such the same page...only you know the astrology of it. I just know the gut feeling of it, and it is everything you say it is...I am going to go eat a metaphysical brownie laced with very potent Moroccan hashish....and like Coleridge, try to dream a dream without getting interrupted....

Arianna Huffington: Anatomy Of A Crushing Political Defeat

With Iraq burning, WMD missing, jobs at Herbert Hoover-levels, flu shots nowhere to be found, gas prices through the roof, and Osama bin Laden back on the scene looking tanned, rested, and ready to rumble, this should have been a can't-lose election for the Democrats. Especially since they were more unified than ever before, had raised as much money as the Republicans, and were appealing to a country where 55 percent of voters believed we were headed in the wrong direction. But lose it they did. So the question inevitably becomes: What now?

http://www.ariannaonline.com/columns/column.php?id=742

Here is how I see it:

The Bush team put together an alliance of "Know Nothings", Christian right folks, who dont read newspapers, or care about events, who dont understand the importance of trade and budget deficits, or wars for oil (fought by the lower and middle class to benefit the super rich), or corruption evidenced by extremely large no bid contracts, or elimination of the fair labor standards act and overtime for anyone making over $23,000 per year, who dont really know or care how much the Bush adm lies to them, but care about their religious views and attempting to enforce them on the rest of society, and electing "one of them" as president. This is called values & culture.

This is an old, old game... a mild form of religous intollerance. It is really a shame it had to be used as a campaign tactic. It can be very dangerous stuff, and can easily get out of hand, and invoking it for political gain is an (IMHO) very good reason for despising bush.

The other part of the alliance is folks who have big incomes and benefit from tax cuts, and have no need or desire for social programs (or the cost to them for the social programs).

These two groups, plus a small portion of the jewish vote (that rewarded bush for his support of Israel) plus those republican voters who always vote republican, regardless of whether their man is a conservative or not were sufficient to swing the vote.

That, and the fact that the youth were registered, but were apparently not scarred enough of a draft to actually come out and vote in numbers, swung the vote.

I am quite disapointed in this. I live in a consrvative town in Colorado, and am on the town council. The votes here went 2:1 for Bush.

I really think folks voted their "christian values", ie: religion.

This is dangerous and stupid, but it is.

I am almost 58 and was looking forward to social security. I hope something remains of that program when I get to be 62 or 65.

How are these lower and middle class folks with their "christian values" going to feel when their social security is destroyed, their savings is devalued and inflated away? Will they blame Bush? Or will Bush be that good honest religious man who just had to deal with all that stuff that Clinton left him...

I guess if I was a young person, I would consider moving to Canada, NZ or Australia. They understand there, that you must pay attention to budget and trade deficits.

Meantime, you can invest in gold or foreign currencies.

www.everbank.com is a good one for foreign currencies, fdic insurred and in the us.

Gold, you can get from your local coin dealer.

Also, grow a garden, and try to be as energy self sufficient as you can (solar, or alternate fuel (corn stoves)).

Also, Reki, or other energy work can be a really good thing to be involved with, as a giver or reciever. We run a group at our local Unity Church on alternate sundays.

I have been reading the mail here and on Nancy's site for some time, and I really appreciate your thoughts, efforts, and astrology work.

As an ex court astrologer from Atlantis I appreciate how you cant always get things right (we could only see out to Saturn, telescopes were not very decent) and while we could get the war stuff right (Mars), we really didnt know the damn place would sink (big sheepish grin!).

Best wishes for all good things!

Bob A.

Not sure if anybody posted this already - this picture is worth a thousand words (or lives):

http://michaelmoore.com/

Should have used it before the election!

Garry, thank you for the unending supply of unconditional love and light that your gentle soul provides here. I agree that this time is one for venting, especially for those of us invested in the effort to oust B* & Co. Your comment naming me along with a few others caught me off guard a little, as I wasn't aware of a failure to be forgiving. So, if a comment was construed as somehow hurtful, please be assured that this has not been my intent at all.

This site, seems to me, represents an incredible assemblage of wisdom - with all the astrologers so willing to share their gifted insights as well as the enlightened souls sharing their visions here. I am grateful to have been able to "associate" with all here over the past months [even though much of the time as just a lurker]. I appreciate the many personalities that exist here [by that I mean the people I have noticed as regular posters here - ]. AstroWorlders have shown themselves to be smart and saavy, and full of a healthy fighting spirit, as well as a good deal of kindness and humility. Today of all days, I'd argue for more than an ounce of forbearance on behalf of us all.

Mark S. - Just for clarity's sake, I didn't want anyone to think I was recommending a path of violence. Though I'm a fighter, I'm more in tune with Ghandi's ways than those of the warrior. When I mentioned doing battle, I was speaking metaphorically of continuing the fight politically. I recognize, however, that we are all different entities with differing paths.

And thank-you all for being here this day. Your stories brought out how much we share in common, and the tears, insights and laughter shared here have all been real balm to my soul. Goodnight...

KM

* ...Reconstructed Fascism

First & most basic is that Dominion Theology wants to replace democracy with a theocratic elite that wld govern according to a very literal & peculiar interpretation of biblical law. The disciples of Jesus are to have "dominion" over all of creation. It is the role of the Church to rule over the wicked & bring them into the obedience of faith.

In a "reconstructed society" democracy wld be heresy. The division between sacred & secular wld be abolished. A new insistence on conformity to moral rules wld replace the pluralism we now know. The purpose of the Fed govt wld be to enforce morality thru military/police functions. Society wld be regulated by a theocratic elite: in the words of Pat Robertson: "just as the Supreme Court justices place a hand on the bible & swear to uphold the Constitution, so they shld also put a hand on the Constitution & swear to uphold the bible."

We see this at play in the leanings of Supreme Court Justices Scalia & Thomas. Against the common assumption that we are a secular state Mr Scalia has said (in a FIRST THINGS: May 2002 ) "govt … derives its moral authority from god. Govt is the minister of god with powers to revenge, to execute wrath, incl wrath by the sword."

Scalia is drawing from Romans 13. If taken literally the implication of those verses wld prohibit any resistance against the policies of a govt. No more peaceful demonstrations (the govt wld be justified to do what it did to those recently in Miami & earlier here in Seattle). Even writings of dissent/opposition cld be labeled treasonous (this is part of Ashcroft’s passion for Patriot Acts & other warnings not to say too much).

Scalia (& many of the con judges placed in Fed Courts since Reagan) believe in interpreting the Constitution in its original intent. As Scalia has said (same article as above) "the constitution that I interpret & apply is not living but dead. It means today not what current society ... thinks it ought to mean, but what it meant when it was adopted." So, as Katherine Yurica points out in her article THE DESPOILING OF AMERICA:

... since the death penalty was clearly permitted when the 8th Amendment (which prohibits cruel & unusual punishments) was adopted & at that time the death penalty was applied for all felonies--incl, for example, the felony of horse-thieving, "so it is clearly permitted today".

All a willing Dominionist [necropub] controlled congress need do to extend the death penalty to those people who practice witchcraft, adultery, homosexuality, heresy, etc. is to find those particular death penalty laws existing as of Nov 3, 1791 & re-instate them.

Scalia further believes that democracy fosters civil disobedience & is therefore a hindrance to the greater good of law/order. Our Fed Court system is being packed with these types of Judges … bush himself will try to fill Court vacancies with these type of judges.

Secondly: The good society according to Dominion Theology has men[sic] on top. Society wld be reconstructed into a strong patriarchy that wld provide the social pressure ensuring conformity. Women wld find their true function as supportive wives, mothers & homemakers. Those outside this "patriarchal modality" wld be exterminated. (Today the Gay marriage movement is a true threat to establishing a patriarchal society. This [regime] has no choice but to make this a MAJOR issue in the coming election.).

Thirdly: Purity becomes very important. There is only one right way to see the world. It is therefore of fundamental importance to control education in all spheres of culture. We see this in the bush [regime]’s approach to testing in schools; in his massive discounting of Global warming & in his repeated refusals to engage in open, diversified conversation about matters of importance: whether it be cheney’s Energy Task Force, the investigation of 9/11; or the creation of an "in house" intelligence team which created evidence for the Iraqi war after the other govtal agencies cldn’t provide it. The bush team KNEW the answers before the evidence was even accumulated.

Fourth: Dominion Theology denies history & spurns the modern. It is not a conservative (conserving) movement. Altho it might appeal to a nostalgic/mythical past it is primarily focused on a radically, revolutionized future of utopia. It assumes that the end will justify the means & it is moral to work as "stealth agts" fooling the pagans. It sees the world as engaged in spiritual warfare pitting "good Christians" against everybody else. This HOLY WAR & HOLINESS rhetoric is foundational in Mr bush’s worldview.

Now if you think that this talk is bit "hyper" on my part … that I’m Chicken Little squawking in the wind … what then do you make of these TX [necropub] platform positions of 2002???
"The [necropub] Party of TX reaffirms the US of America is a Christian nation.

Govt: We reclaim freedom of religious expression in public on govt property, & freedom from govt interference. Support govt display of Ten Commandments. ... Dispel the "myth" of separation of church/state.

ECONOMY: Abolish the dollar in favor of the gold standard. Abolish the IRS. Eliminate income tax, inheritance tax, gift tax, capital gains, corpo income tax, payroll tax & property tax. Repeal min wage law …Gradually phase out Social security tax for a system of private pensions.

UNITED NATIONS: We immediately rescind our membership in, awa financial/military contributions to the UN … we shld evict the UN...

FAMILY: We believe that traditional marriage is a legal/moral commitment between a man & a woman. We recognize that the family is the foundational unit of a healthy society & consists of those related by blood, marriage or adoption. The family is responsible for its own welfare, education, moral training, conduct & property.

EDUCATION: Since Secular Humanism is recognized by the US Supreme Court as a religion ... Secular Humanism shld be subjected to the same state/fed laws as any other recognized religion.

ENVIRONMENT: Oppose the myth of global warming. Reaffirm the belief in the fundamental right of an individual to use property w/o governmental interference. ... http://www.religioustolerance.org/reconstr.htm

Dear Fellow Astroworlders,

I'd like to thank you all for being who and what
you are. The level of intellect found here is
always a homecoming.

Siobhan, Judi, Bushfatigued, thank you.

Jonathan-but that what you hope for could be true.

Where is Sharon Katz - and why haven't we heard from her? Sharon, come join us.

The talk of Dr. Dean is interesting. You might say we here are already preparing the "resistance"-but if I do any resisting and if I can swing it, I think it will be from outside of this country, and joining the rest of the world in opposition to what the US has become.

A dangerous place for free thinkers, idealists, and truth seekers.

Although my plans are not fully formulated, they're floating around ...

If the beast has accomplished 1/2 the destruction of the Constitution and all social programs in the last 4 years, think of what he'll be able to do in the next four with "a mandate" from fixed voting machines. Yes. I truly believe that.

Pluto on the personality and structure of the US
bodes no good. I have been watching it for several years and thinking that. Pluto in Sagittarius, as I have thought,and posted, meaning a change in our laws and societal structure could not be for the better, since we have been the ideal of the world.

As long as we have the internet, it won't matter where we are...we can still affect a resistance.

The danger is that other countries will cave in and go along to get along. I have been listening to BBC and French news. I don't speak French but it is not hard to understand words like "tragedy".

An elderly voter stopped to talk to me at the polls. He was telling me how he was visiting his son in Buffalo, and his son said, "C'mon, we'll go across the border and get flu shots for you and Mom". They went to a clinic in Canada, no long waiting lines, no problems, no shortage of flue vaccine. The doctor made a comment about what the US was doing concerning the Flu vaccine..a negative comment. How could there be no shortage in Canada and no flu vaccine for the elderly in the U.S. ?

Here's my terrible thought. I never met one of my grandmothers. She died in 1918 in the flu epidemic.

Have you noticed how the US never interferes in genocides in countries of color like Rwanda and Darfhur? Undesirables in the Uber society category. The elderly are undesirables to the Bush administration. They cost too much money. They expect and demand the social programs they have been promised since FDR's days. Less elederly, less expenditure on Social Security. No need to put them out on floating icebergs. Just allow flus and ailments to flourish without healthcare and nature will cut costs.

Terrible thougts, but one has to think like a Rovian and Bush to understand possible motives.

The question to ask is never what. It is always
"why".

We have to begin thinking of the reality - the nightmare continues - and deepens. Personal safety first. In case you haven't noticed, there is not one of us who post here who would not be categorized as a "dissident".

We have been G-8'd and now our voting has been black bagged CIA'd - as the Bush's have done across this planet and most usually in South American countries.

We have made comparisons to Hitler's 1938 again and again...words that didn't sink in. The reality
is sinking in.

If you are black, hispanic, or a "dissident" (liberal?) I think you/we are the Jew in this country of 1938. Google and read FEMA.

My Haitian friend, a highly intelligent educated chemical engineer who re-located here from Canada, and whom I find to have a great deal of wisdom, has quietly said "this will not be a good place to be within a year". He expects Southern Florida to get payback from the administration for its voting. He has 4 boys and a girl. He has not decided where to move, but he is planning on moving. Lucky man. He kept the dual citizenship for himself and his family.

I read Claudia's article at StarCats - excellent. She predicts:

The Saturn Return of Nixon's resignation of the White House and the planetary patterns that influenced it (and the Vietnam War) 30 years ago might well indicate that Bush gets the White House again this November only to lose it as Nixon did during his second term.

Whether Bush finishes a second term or not, he is likely to be identified as the most reviled president in American history. (At this point, greater minds than mine will ever be have already said that Bush is the worst president in American history). His administration will unravel like a ball of yarn in a cat's paws. Bush himself will descend a mental slippery slope while living in seclusion and paranoia. It's is what Richard Nixon did when the lid exploded off Watergate.

George Bush does not have the strength and fortitude that characterized Richard Nixon's generation. Nixon went bad, yes, but he at least started out as a humble man who worked hard. He developed his intelligence by excelling in academics and by cultivating a naturally curious mind. He was the last Republican president to have a social conscience. Nixon believed in helping the poor. He believed that tax dollars should be appropriated for social services to provide for those less fortunate. By contrast, Ronald Reagan's presidency in the 1980's steered the GOP to the Right and into the "greed is good era," of gilded age politics. Nixon sacrificed reputation for power. Bush sacrifices the very little he is on the alter of dirty mammon.

Will the Bush administration, if it secures a second term go down just like Nixon? Well, something fairly close to that scenario seems likely. As Mark Twain said, "History doesn't repeat itself; it rhymes." Planetary cycles reveal to us the rhymes of history.

This gives me some solace. Bush must have gotten in again for a reason - how else could he be held accountable? Maybe it just wasn't supposed to happen during the 2004 election, that Neptune would fog all of the fundies with patriotism. So it may be better if he is caught while in office. I hope we have this to look forward to.

PS - Why are there so few of us who can see through all of this? We need an insurgence of more enlightened souls on this planet, where are they?

Give me a break! Where do they get you all? What a bunch of whiners. "I have sensed on a psychic level for some time now.."

So much for your "psychic" ability. Hey, if you're a mindreader, what am I thinking?

OK... my turn. You're a bunch of overweight, fugly, lesbo, MiChAeL MoOrE lovin', crybaby losers. Pretty good eh?
There's nothing wrong with this country that a few medium yield nukes couldn't fix. Hollywood, Frisco(the gay area), and Massachusetts.

PRESIDENT BUSH!!! 4 MORE YEARS!!!!!

all--

whine on!!!The truth always hurts!!!!!

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