Oh, Sally! After reading this, a deep, deep, life-giving breath came up from somewhere inside the person I was 4 years ago. This is what we need - hope.

Thank you!

I mean, Oh, Isabelle! ; ) And Sally, too!

Isabelle, I love the comparisons you draw to other times in history and this article is no exception. Thank you for your insights.

I am posting a link to a site that looks at all kinds of indicators other than astrology, including football games, stock markets, psychics, hair polls and it comes out to Kerry 6, Bush 2

http://www.maddogproductions.com/ds_election2004.htm

Isalelle, I had just gotten this article in my e-mail. It is so perfect as a comment here.

Steve Weissman | Stop Thinking, and See What You're Told
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/093004W.shtml

You have here what I have been thinking about every day. It's good to know I'm not the only one thinking of these names.

jackie stallone's dogs being half right is like being right half the time calling heads or tails
so don't give an iota of credibility for jackie, may be an iota of credibility for her dogs!

Those who forget history are condemned to repeat it, eh? Thanks Isabelle and Sally for posting it....I worry that the younger readers, unless they are history majors, won't have a feeling for the 1930's, and why books like Animal Farm and 1984 were written originally....(I wasn't there either, mind you, but us war babies sure know the results). The aftermath kids get to deal with all the bad vibes afterwards....

I just hope some of this lightness translates to better financials....but it DOES seem to jibe, this lightness, with John Edwards' optimism, doesn't it? I have a feeling that Kerry, with that
Sag energy, is actually a pretty light guy himself when not being punished for speaking French or marrying wealthy....

Hi all! I've been out of power for 76 hours since Sunday so I'm in heaven now with it back on. I live in the Clearwater area and 25% of us have had our power cut. I have a lot of catching up to do. I love the new articles posted but catching up with all the posts will take me a few days.

As miserable as we were, there were good things that happened to our family without power . . . such as endless hours playing UNO by candlelight or telling stories and just relating to each other. Everything happens for a reason . . . . but don't think for a minute I want this to happen again, putting on make-up to go to work by candlelight and showering in cold water . . . . ugghhh!!

Nice to be back with you all and I will catch up soon!

Raj...laughed out loud about Jackie's dogs...I thought the same thing...statistically, I am right half the time, too....

My dogs (when they were alive, all chows, except for one poodle) were, however, very damn good at predicting earthquakes. 48-24 hours before a quake they would try to kill each other, snarl, bite, great gnashing of teeth and some vets bills. Then they would sleep thru the quake.

Laurie, I am glad you are all safe....I have an uncle by marriage in Texas....I was talking to him last night. His brother is in a Mennonite home in Sarasota. They never had a problem, because these people who run the home thought of everything....generators, they even have their own cable channel to keep everyone informed even when the power went out everywhere else. They figured out a way to get HOT MEALS to everyone during the driving rain, too....Gosh, maybe we should hire the Mennonites to run the country! You think?

Very nice, Isabelle. And look at this: people who rob banks for a few thousand get thrown in jail, while slimeballs like this . . .

"Washington lobbyist Jack Abramoff and public relations consultant Michael Scanlon quietly worked with conservative religious activist Ralph Reed to help the state of Texas shut down an Indian tribe's casino in 2002, then the two quickly persuaded the tribe to pay $4.2 million to try to get Congress to reopen it."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50258-2004Sep25.html

It's just a whole different level, a very very low one. How much lower will we go?

These are the mafia shakedown tactics....they're being taught at Harvard Business School under the guise of Economics!

The good news is they have all of their e-mails. Heh!

Just watched a little of the Lehr News....they did a story on PA voters....now get this....the women want their little boys to be SAFE - this from the president who brought us safety on 9/11 -...so they are voting for Bush (wonder if they will feel the same way after their boys and girls are drafted 15 years from now). So it appears that Bush is winning the state that went to Gore last election....but with weird crossovers....A Repub woman council member is voting for Kerry because Bush is too extreme right socially, and a Democratic man who is voting for Bush because the Democratic party doesn't represent HIM anymore....he wants his guns and prayers in schools....no wonder the polls are so wacky.

William Rivers Pitt | Introducing John Kerry
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/093004A.shtml

CIA Pessimistic About Iraq: Worse Than Portrayed
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/093004B.shtml

Ashcroft Wants More Death Penalties
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/093004C.shtml

George Soros | Why We Must Not Re-elect President Bush
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/093004D.shtml

Andrew Gumbel | Something Rotten in the State of Florida
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/093004E.shtml

White House Opposes Sections of 9/11 Bill
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/093004F.shtml

Bush Lets Big Ships Spew More Diesel
http://www.truthout.org/environment.shtml

Eric Leser | "Halliburton Affair" a Dick Cheney Scandal
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/093004H.shtml

Waiting to Bomb Iran
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/093004I.shtml

Operation American Repression?
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/093004J.shtml

Distortion: CNN Circles the Wagons on Polling
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/093004K.shtml

Prisoner's Release Spurs Lindh to Ask for Clemency
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/093004L.shtml

Judge Rules Against Patriot Act Provision
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/093004V.shtml

Pat C....I used to be able to read the WA Post, but somehow now I can't....I absolutely refuse to spend the time filling out forms for all these news sources (more and more requiring the passes)....

So didn't read that article.

Worth reading...

http://www.isarastrology.com/articles/index.php

Chas..

I originally posted "awake in the Dream"

Is this the article someone was looking for
on the last post??

http://www.isarastrology.com/articles/bush-assassination.htm

Isabelle, isn't it amazing that in 1931 the world was just getting "talkies" .... and now we have talking heads talking all the time and still we have the same result....no matter how much info is available, people still are seduced by the same old crap. It has GOT to be the Pluto thing....I can't think of any other reason why people are just so dense. Dense....dense vibes, nothing getting thru except "me me me" as Pat C. has said quite often. No "come together, right now...."

Trouble in Blighty???

http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,5027788-103677,00.html

wv, thanks for the ISAR link!

judi, Truthout has done all that for you.

Even John Eisenhower is for Kerry...

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/printer_093004U.shtml

My wonderful colleagues:

I asked my very very old Eugenian friend, who does not follow any media, how to respond to this election. I think she's right on target:

Meditate for Change is a grassroots movement started by several individuals in Albuquerque, NM, who are disheartened and discouraged
with the growing amount of fear and dishonesty being projected by the current leadership of our country. We choose to activate the power of
collective thought as an effective tool for change. Our intent is to promote wisdom, compassion and honesty during the 2004 electoral
process.

Let's eliminate frustration at not being able to bring about change, and put our thoughts into action! The power of our thoughts and intentions in terms of obtaining a desired outcome has largely gone untapped as an instrument for change on a more universal level. An example of the power of thought on a larger scale was the outcome
produced by the National Demonstration Project to Reduce Violent Crime conducted June 7 to July 30, 1993, in the Washington D.C. area. The group included 4,000 participants from the transcendental Meditation
and T.M. Sidhi programs. The result was a 25% decrease in violent crime in the District, which was considered a statistical impossibility.

Let's unite to develop a positive and peace-promoting outcome for the United States (and indirectly, the world) on November Second!

Our plan:

· A nationwide collective meditation fifteen minutes before each presidential and vice presidential debate,

· Plus fifteen minutes at 10 p.m. Eastern time (9 p.m. Central, 8 p.m. Mountain and 7 p.m. Pacific) on November 1st.

The united concentration is to focus on promoting wisdom, compassion and honesty during the 2004 electoral process.

Help us with this project! Please organize 'thought vigils' in your
community, among your friends, family and organizations. Pass this
message on to as many people as you know, post it on public bulletin boards and in the press! We need to move fast! Any feedback or comments you might have are highly appreciated, as well as an idea of the number and location of people participating. Please write to: meditate4change@aol.com.

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world: indeed it's the only thing that ever has." -
Margaret Meade.

Pat C....thanks! I have often gone there...I didn't realize that is what they were doing...but then, I am one of those people who gets the complex stuff but misses the simple truth (which is why I probably like Kerry? hahaha

Nov 22, 1963...41 years since JFK assassinated....seems to me some cycles are hitting again. JFK elected 1960, GWB elected 2000. However, the article by Marguerite on assassination aspects was for fall of 2003. Are those aspects still in force? Seems to me the only one who has been close to death is Clinton.

Wonderful Isabelle. I never connected the Tower card with the World Trade Center, but it is so apt.

Annkats, that is a good article on meditating...I am going to send it to a friend who has an international ring of people who do meditation to help individuals....

From the William Rivers Pitt article at Truthout on Kerry:
    The public reality of BCCI changed completely when John Kerry, fresh from his lead role investigating the Iran/Contra scandal, was tasked to run down Iran/Contra drug connections as chairman of the Subcommittee on Terrorism, Narcotics, and International Operations. Very soon, Kerry discovered damning BCCI connections not only to Noriega and the laundering of drug money, but to a massive international network of dirty cash moving to and from the most dangerous people in the world.

    Immediately, Kerry met with opposition from power-players in Washington. Everyone - literally everyone, from both parties, including President George H.W. Bush, whose son George W. had enjoyed BCCI financing for one of his doomed oil businesses - pressured Kerry to back off. Instead, Kerry took the information he had gathered and gave it to New York District Attorney Robert Morgenthau. Morgenthau agreed to begin a criminal investigation into BCCI. By 1991, the investigation had blown up what Morgenthau described at the time as "one of the biggest criminal enterprises in world history."

HOW KARMIC is it that Kerry is running against dimsun?

Pat C....William Rivers Pitt article on Kerry is terrific....BCCI....Bin Laden...GHW Bush....Dimsun....again, how KARMIC is this?

Kerry needs lots of blue light....

"trouble in blighty" WV you are a very funny person, that has made me smile all evening. Blair seems to be stacking up foes as fast as Bush.

Annakats, you are so right when you talk about the power of a mind set, the power of sending love out in the world, what is happening now has so little to do with love and I don't think can exist if they are bombarded with it. Ghandi said "love will always triupmh" and it will.

Gosh, somewhere along the way I lost a post. Don't know where it went! So I shall repeat it.

This is regarding natal astrology rather than mundane.

In the last several weeks I've read where some of you have expressed the need for an astologer. I too needed one and was looking when I saw Sally post a message that talked about a phone reading she did. It was the answer to a prayer so I contacted her.

It was a Wonderful reading, far beyond my expectations. Sally quelled fears and brought a light into my home.

If any of you are seeking as I was I cannot recommend her highly enough!

Did anybody see this yet? From CBSnews.com. Yay CBS!!!!!! I watch it a lot because we don't have cable & it gets the best reception. Now, due to the happenings as of late + this particular article, CBS will always have my loyalty forever more.

Bush's Top Ten Flip-Flops

NEW YORK, Sept. 28, 2004

Campaign Scare Tactics

(Photo: AP)

"We found the weapons of mass destruction. We found biological laboratories."(May 29, 2003)

"I recognize we didn't find the stockpiles [of weapons] we all thought were there." (Sept. 9, 2004)
President Bush

(CBS) The charge of "flip-flopping" has resounded throughout the presidential race, with the Bush campaign repeatedly accusing Sen. John Kerry of changing his mind on the issues. The Kerry campaign, in turn, has declared that Mr. Bush is the one doing the flip-flopping.

CBSNews.com Chief Political Writer David Paul Kuhn looks at the record and finds both men are correct. Here, the president's most notable flip-flops.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Weapons of Mass Destruction

Announcing the invasion of Iraq on March 19, 2003, Mr. Bush said, “Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised.”

Two months into the war, on May 29, 2003, Mr. Bush said weapons of mass destruction had been found.

“We found the weapons of mass destruction. We found biological laboratories,” Mr. Bush told Polish television. “For those who say we haven't found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, they're wrong, we found them."

On Sept. 9, 2004, in Pennsylvania, Mr. Bush said: “I recognize we didn't find the stockpiles [of weapons] we all thought were there.”

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Read Part Two of our series:
John Kerry's Top Ten Flip-Flops

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nation Building and the War in Iraq

During the 2000 campaign, George W. Bush argued against nation building and foreign military entanglements. In the second presidential debate, he said: "I'm not so sure the role of the United States is to go around the world and say, 'This is the way it's got to be.'"

The United States is currently involved in nation building in Iraq on a scale unseen since the years immediately following World War II.

During the 2000 election, Mr. Bush called for U.S. troops to be withdrawn from the NATO peacekeeping mission in the Balkans. His administration now cites such missions as an example of how America must "stay the course."

Iraq and the Sept. 11 Attacks

In a press conference in September 2002, six months before the invasion of Iraq, President Bush said, “you can't distinguish between al Qaeda and Saddam when you talk about the war on terror... they're both equally as bad, and equally as evil, and equally as destructive.”

In September of 2004, Mr. Bush said: “We've had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved with September 11th." Though he added that “there's no question that Saddam Hussein had al Qaeda ties,” the statement seemingly belied earlier assertions that Saddam and al Qaeda were “equally bad.”

The Sept. 11 commission found there was no evidence Saddam was linked to the 9/11 attacks, which killed nearly 3,000 people.

The Sept. 11 Commission

President Bush initially opposed the creation of an independent commission to investigate the Sept. 11 attacks. In May 2002, he said, “Since it deals with such sensitive information, in my judgment, it's best for the ongoing war against terror that the investigation be done in the intelligence committee.”

Bowing to pressure from victims' families, Mr. Bush reversed his position. The following September, he backed an independent investigation.

Free Trade

During the 2000 presidential election, Mr. Bush championed free trade. Then, eyeing campaign concerns that allowed him to win West Virginia, he imposed 30 percent tariffs on foreign steel products from Europe and other nations in March 2002.

Twenty-one months later, Mr. Bush changed his mind and rescinded the steel tariffs. Choosing to stand on social issues instead of tariffs in steel country – Ohio, Pennsylvania and West Virginia – the Bush campaign decided it could afford to upset the steel industry rather than further estrange old alliances.

Homeland Security Department

President Bush initially opposed creating a new Department of Homeland Security. He wanted Tom Ridge, now the secretary of Homeland Security, to remain an adviser.

Mr. Bush reversed himself and backed the largest expansion of the federal government since the creation of the Defense Department in 1949.

Same-Sex Marriage

During the 2000 campaign, Mr. Bush said he was against federal intervention regarding the issue of same-sex marriage. In an interview with CNN's Larry King, he said, states "can do what they want to do" on the issue. Vice President Cheney took the same stance.

Four year later, this past February, Mr. Bush announced his support for an amendment to the Constitution that defines marriage as being exclusively between men and women. The amendment would forbid states from doing "what they want to do" on same-sex marriage.

Citing recent decisions by “activist judges” in states like Massachusetts, Mr. Bush defended his reversal. Critics point out that well before the 2000 presidential race, a judge in Hawaii ruled in December 1996 that there was no compelling reason for withholding marriage from same-sex couples.

Winning the War on Terror

"I don't think you can win it," Mr. Bush said of the war on terror in August. In an interview on NBC's "Today" show, he said, “I think you can create conditions so that . . . those who use terror as a tool are less acceptable in parts of the world."

Before the month closed, Mr. Bush reversed himself at the American Legion national convention in Nashville. He said: "We meet today in a time of war for our country, a war we did not start yet one that we will win." He later added, “we are winning, and we will win."

Campaign Finance Reform

President Bush was initially against the McCain-Feingold campaign finance reform bill. He opposed any soft-money limits on individuals to national parties.

But Mr. Bush later signed McCain-Feingold into law. The law, named for Senate sponsors John McCain, R-Ariz., and Russell Feingold, D-Wis., barred both national parties from collecting soft money from individuals.

During the 2000 race, Mr. Bush showed support for the so-called 527 groups’ right to air advertising.

In March 2000, he told CBS News' "Face the Nation," "There have been ads, independent expenditures, that are saying bad things about me. I don't particularly care when they do, but that's what freedom of speech is all about.”

In late August of this year, in an effort to distance himself from controversial anti-Kerry ads by the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, Mr. Bush reversed his position, announcing he would join McCain in legal action to stop these "shadowy" organizations.

Though it would close the Swift Boat group's funding, court action would also silence well-funded liberal 527 organizations like MoveOn.org and America Coming Together.

Gas Prices

Mr. Bush was critical of Al Gore in the 2000 campaign for being part of “the administration that's been in charge” while the “price of gasoline has gone steadily upward.” In December 1999, in the first Republican primary debate, Mr. Bush said President Clinton “must jawbone OPEC members to lower prices.”

As gas topped a record level of $50 a barrel this week, Mr. Bush has shown no propensity to personally pressure, or “jawbone,” Mideast oil producers to increase output.

A spokesman for the president reportedly said in March that Mr. Bush will not personally lobby oil cartel leaders to change their minds.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/28/politics/main646142.shtml

Didn't realize it was so long. I should have condensed it...but it is very good, isn't is? Thanks, Isabelle for this interesting article. And, thank you Sally, for this site.

It's deep in the night when the imagination runs wild, so I wrote you folks a poem:

Polls and trolls and all such things
Infect us like a pox
Monsters blonde with scary masks
are screeching from the box
Telling lies, terror flies
The truth fled long ago
The wild winds rage, this bloody page
In history all will know
The dark spade is drawn, the cards will fall
So much evil we believe
But the ace is high, you know there's one
Always hidden in the sleeve.

I love the fact that the coming Saturn in Leo will be crossing Kerry's north node, Pluto, and Jupiter... trine all the Sag.
Looks like fun and adventure to me.

Sept. 28

Bush's hometown newspaper in Crawford, Texas, endorses Kerry:

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/index.php?id=178

(or go to Iconoclast webpage)

Long and very detailed editorial.

From the best writer for the NYTimes

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/03/arts/03rich.html?8hpib=&oref=login&pagewanted=print&position=

Thanks Teresa b, what a lovely poem. Thank you Isabelle too for the words above. Not only am I tired of Pluto in Sag, I am tired of the nodes in Taurus/Scorpio. Pluto sits in my first house now by transit, and well, what can I say? It's interesting, but I miss the optimism/faith I use to have. It isn't quite gone, but it does see some new lows lately. Funny, faith hits mainstream and mine takes a powder. But then, fundamentalism was never my forte.

Been thinking of new nodal concepts for Aries/Libra. How about pioneering diplomacy? New discoveries of harmony? Planting seeds of Peace?

Judi Gem, you asked how karmic the Kerry/GWB race? I did a quick chart comparison between them and sure enough, Kerry's nodal axis falls on GWB's Asc/desc. Kerry's Sun opp Moon/Sat falls on GWB's nodal axis. Looks like some kind of karma dharma is happening, doesn't it?

Didn't see this posted yet. Republicans are scared to let people vote.

" In Colorado, Donetta Davidson has ordered that on a provisional ballot, the only vote counted will be the vote for president. ÊVotes for Senate and Congress will not be counted. Given the competitive Senate race and a number of competitive House races, this could destroy the Democrats chances of winning control of the Senate and the House:"

Fo more links and info go to: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/9/29/124230/190

ATTENTION: Astrologers, posters, readers, lurkers,
newbies et al

Remember, we are NOT human beings on a Spirital
journey

We are SPIRITUAL beings on a Human journey!

Individually and collectively we are all from the
same Source (God, First Force, Allah, Creator etc.) and we are trying to return to that Source
through lifetime after lifetime.

We are here to learn Love, Harmony and Perfection.
What is going on is of little consequence so
spare a little Compassion for those who err.

Wrap yourself every day in White light, Violet light and Golden Light.

If you want to live and look better, give yourself
a Faith lift.

Help is on the way...in more ways that you will
ever know or imagine.

http://lawandpolitics.blogspot.com/

WISHFUL THINKING - Post-Debate Spin from the Year 2005
__________

Political Science 541/Humanities 502; Ancient Greek Tragedy and Modern Politics

Mid-term Exam
October 1, 2005

QUESTION # 1: Last year, President Kerry defeated George Bush, largely on the basis of the first debate (which we discussed in class). Analyze this debate – and/or Bush’s subsequent defeat – in the context of one of the plays we have read.

For the answer-go read.

An article about the BOGUS polling methods of GALLUP:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/nation/president/2004-09-29-gop-poll.htm

Sally....

What orb do you use for transits of the outer planets to natal inner planets?

Thank you

Indian casino-Repug scandal. Here's a link that does quote some of the racist email comments made by the scum:

http://www.thedesertsun.com/news/stories2004/local/20040930004411.shtml

wv, (((shooch)))! Thanks for that.

wv,
I saw the website on isarastrology about shrub's..
but since that was an old archives, as of now, I
prefer him to be ousted by FAIR elections by Kerry
and then the new adminsistration bring charges on
shrub,cheny,rummy,cunti and the whole gangsta and try them for WAR CRIMES and convict them, slammer
them and throw the keys away into the Atlantic Ocean!

judi gemini,
You'd laugh even more after reading this: shrub was in FL and everytime after talking to voters,
he says God bless you all;no wonder when shrub says that, God does not follow what shrub asks God
to do and instead God devastates FL.shrub still doesn't learn to keep his trap shut when asking GOD for favors.

text of an email I received earlier today---let's do it, truth warriors!!!

Tonight, don't let George Bush's henchmen steal another victory. We need your online help immediately after the debate, so save this email, print it out, and have it ready with you as you watch the first Presidential debate tonight.

We all know what happened in 2000. Al Gore won the first debate on the issues, but Republicans stole the post-debate spin. We are not going to let that happen again, and you will play a big role.

Immediately after the debate, we need you to do three things: vote in online polls, write a letter to the editor, and call in to talk radio programs. Your 10 minutes of activism following the debate can make the difference.

Vote
National and local news organizations will be conducting online polls during and after the debate asking for readers' opinions. Look for online polls at these national news websites, and make sure to vote in every one of them:

ABC News: http://www.abcnews.com/
CBS News: http://www.cbsnews.com/
CNN: http://www.cnn.com/
Fox News: http://www.foxnews.com/
MSNBC: http://www.msnbc.com/
USA Today: http://www.usatoday.com/
And be sure to check the websites of your local newspapers and TV stations for online polls. It is crucial that you do this in the minutes immediately following the debate.

Write
Immediately after the debate, go online and write a letter to the editor of your local paper. If you feel John Kerry commanded the debate and had a clear plan for fixing the mess in Iraq, put it in your letter. If you feel George Bush dodged tough questions on Iraq and didn't level with voters, put it in your letter.

With just a few clicks, you can write your letter at our online media center:

http://www.democrats.org/media/

Call
Do you listen to national or local call-in shows on the radio? How about on TV? Call them and let them know what you thought of John Kerry's plan to keep America secure and George Bush's continuing refusal to admit the truth about his record.

Here are some national shows to get you started. (All times are Eastern.)

Air America (all day): 646-274-2346
Alan Colmes (10 a.m. to 1 p.m.): 212-301-5900
Ed Shultz (3 p.m. to 6 p.m.): 701-232-1525
Bev Smith (7 p.m. to 10 p.m.): 412-325-4197
Doug Stephen (5 a.m. 10 a.m.): 1-800-510-8255
Find shows in your area on our media website:

http://www.democrats.org/media/find.html

Your actions immediately after the debate tonight can help John Kerry win on November 2. Make your voice heard!

Don't forget to visit our 2004 Debate Center before, during, and after the debate for important information, including questions Bush must answer, a Bush/Kerry contrast on keeping America safe, and Bush Debate Bingo, a game you can play with friends during the debate.

http://www.democrats.org/debates/

And after the debate, check your email for a very special message.

Thank you,

Terry McAuliffe
Chairman

PS: Make sure to forward this email to at least 10 other people who will be watching the debate. Also, give printed out copies to your friends, family members, coworkers and neighbors and get them involved.

peace and love and blue light to all!!!

Fiore's latest...

http://sfgate.com/comics/fiore/

oops, I apologize for the last post's length, but it is crucial!

love all!! peace and blue light ! Ker-ry! Ker-ry!
Ker-ry! Ker-ry!

From LA Weekly...Raj...this is for you: this is Rock Gardiner's horoscope http://www.laweekly.com/rockie/
which I accessed from Starcats: for the whole article:http://www.laweekly.com/rockie/
which is on the debate astrology....but Raj...she's sensing quakes!

Also on Friday, Mars and Uranus (my earthquake indicators) form a queasy, quirky quincunx. Fits and starts, accidents and explosions. Watch out.

WV...! wonderful! I second Pat C.'s Shoosh!

U.S. Marine Declares War on Bush
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/100104X.shtml

Judi, it was meant to be a "smooch" but yet again, I am doing the typos today. Sigh.

As usual, Fiore is hilarious and lots of FUN!

i just got back from a very exciting and short trip to florida. My husband is workng there (he's an insurance adjuster) and he's still working on Hurricane Frances and Hurricane Charly claims and he's starting to get Jeanne claims now too.
but i digress...

what does the first debate look like for Kerry and chimpy? any of you astrologers care to give an opinion?
mimi

someone just posted this on the democratic underground website:

For anyone who half-heartedly believes in astrology, please know that of any of the signs that we could have in this position, Sagitarrius is by far the best.

Sagitarrians are natural leaders- as a mutable fire sign they are arguable the strongest and most respected of all the signs. They ARE late closers- Sagitarrius is ruled by Jupiter, the planet of expansion. In spherical expansion, the rate of volume pick-up increases exponentially as time goes on. Astrologically, this makes Sagitarrians strongest later in life, or in a campaign. They are the wisest of all the signs- you can be sure that Kerry has learned from his mistakes. And they NEVER question themselves- they're actually naive in that sense, but it honestly never even occurs to them that they COULD fail at something.

Which leads to one last thing:

Most of all, Sagitarrians have a reputation for being favored above all other signs by God. Seriously. They are like "God's children," picked out for protection because of their special abilities and naivete.

So, have faith.

Shade....got an email from a friend which said:
Weird that we only have the choice of two wealthy, private school educated, Ivy League guys for the top position of leadership in the world.

I sent him your post on the karmic nodal axis conjunctions you posted....(although this is part of his typical rant, don't know if it will do any good to give him info he probably doesn't agree with anyway, i.e., astrology)

But then, when you consider the genealogy of the two, B** and Kerry are related through a dozen different lines....and I am only speaking of the time in this country since 1620....so, yes, it does appear Karmic with the nodal axis doing its thing....thanks SHADE!

MIMI, see the Rocky Gardiner piece on Starcats I posted....it is short and sweet....

RE: meditation....I sent the meditation piece to my friend Louise and she wrote back:

Judi

I began a new circle in August 2001. (Actually August 11) That is what my group is doing. Daily. Three minutes a night. I believe in it. 

Thank you, Gary, for all the addresses! Looks like the debate has already started with all the hype dominating the morning news shows.

"Fasten your seat belts, it's going to be a bumpy ride" (Well said, Bette Davis!)

Mimi, Laurie and others with FL connections, there are a series of articles at http://www.democrats.com
on the FEMA scams going on in Florida right now

Who would you vote for (Bush, Kerry, Nader)? Pls go vote

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6092749/

Shade,

Add to the nodal axis karma:
USA nodes: 6 degrees Leo/ Aquarius
John Forbes Kerry: 7 degrees Leo/ Aquarius.

John Kerry and George Bush will debate foreign policy for 90 minutes this Thursday, September 30, in the first of three presidential debates. As far as swing voters and the media are concerned, the real debate will begin once Kerry and Bush leave the stage: Who really won? Why?

If you can spare just five minutes after the debate, you can make a huge difference to the outcome of this election.

We are organizing a national post-debate, rapid-response effort that will reinforce Kerry's position on Iraq: Bush's Iraq is a catastrophic failure, a profound diversion from the battle against our greatest enemy -- al Qaeda. John Kerry has a plan to get us back on track in Iraq -- securing promised international support, training Iraq security forces, carrying out a reconstruction plan that brings real benefits to the Iraqi people, and taking the essential steps to hold the promised elections next year. When it comes to keeping America safe, John Kerry will do what needs to be done.

Join our rapid-response effort:

http://www.johnkerry.com/signup/mediacorps.php

As soon as the debate ends, we will e-mail you instructions. We can't provide you any more detail until the debate is over, except that all you'll need is access to e-mail and/or a telephone. Please make sure that you check your e-mail the moment the debate ends. Then, act as quickly as possible.

If you are planning on watching the debate with friends or classmates, you can make an even greater difference by organizing them to participate in our rapid-response effort.

Join our rapid-response effort:

http://www.johnkerry.com/signup/mediacorps.php

Thank you,

Amanda Michel
Internet Team

Don't know about the timing of publication of this article (but, then, when would have been a better time?), but it certainly lays out a lot that Dems and progressives are going to have to think about (whether we win this one or not).

http://www.blackcommentator.com/107/107_freedom_rider_nov_3.html

BCCI is getting a lot of attention lately:

"James Reynolds Bath was a former DIRECTOR OF BCCI and part owner of Arbusto Energy. Arbusto was formed by George W. Bush, with whom Bath served as a member of the Texas Air National Guard. Like Bush, Bath was suspended from flying status in 1972 for failing to complete his annual medical exam.

What a suspense novel... unfortunately, it's true.

Tom Ridge is up to his tricks.
(CNN) -- The Department of Homeland Security and the FBI warned authorities in Florida that Thursday's presidential debate at the University of Miami could be an attractive target for terrorists.

The agencies sent an assessment of potential terrorist threats and tactics to Florida Homeland Security Adviser and to the FBI's Miami field office.

"We do not have any specific information or intelligence to suggest that this first presidential debate is a target," a DHS official said, adding that there was no specific threat information against any of the debates. (Special Report: America Votes 2004, the debates)

The official said that the face-offs between President Bush and Democratic nominee John Kerry were symbolic events that terrorists might target in an effort to disrupt the elections. The warning, issued Monday, notes that southern Florida has been used as a base of operations and transit point by al Qaeda operatives and some of the 9/11 hijackers.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/09/29/debate.securi...

Well surprise, surprise. You just knew this had to happen.

Southern FL has also been the site of 20-something missing helicopters.

The issue that will not die:

http://imrl.usu.edu/bush_memo_study/index.htm

Excerpt:

"The following evidence from a forensic examination of the Bush memos indicates that they were typed on a typewriter:

"1. The specific font used is from a typewriter family in common use since 1905 and a typewriter capable of producing the spacing has been available since 1944.
"2. The characters “e,” “t,” “s,” and “a” show indications of physical damage and/or wear consistent with a well used typewriter.
"3. The characters that are seldom used show no signs of damage or wear.
"4. The quality of individual characters is inconsistent throughout the memos beyond expectations from photocopying and/or digitizing but quality is consistent with worn platen and variations in paper quality.
"5. Overlapping characters occasionally indicate paper deformation consistent with hammered impressions.
"6. Critical indicators of digital production or cut and paste production are missing.

"Implications are that there is nothing in this evidence that would indicate the memos are inauthentic. Furthermore, from the point of view of the physical evidence in the documents (excluding any rhetorical evidence or external evidence, which is not examined in this study) no amount of additional research on the part of CBS would have lead them to exclude the documents from their 60 Minutes report."

Shylurker: You had asked for a link-away back in previous thread-to a reference for the Nazi 'joke courts'. Here's a link to a book by John Morreall, "Taking Laughter Seriously." Sample:

(snip) "Perhaps the easiest place to see the liberating effect of humor is in the political sphere. The person with a sense of humor can never be fully dominated, even by a government which imprisons him ..." (more)

He gets to the Nazis later in the piece, i. e. how fascist regimes take all the fun out of dysfunctional.

Interesting ideas, especially tonight while all of us Teilhard fans are meditating, setting intention with thought forms, and rapid-responding.....guess I'll start working on my 'NO Dubya-2' form now....

Oh--mi scusi--here in fact is the link to Morreall...."Humor and Freedom":

http://www.msu.edu/~jdowell/morreall.html

Only hours left for the Democrats to raise money!!! Please donate, every bit helps!!!

https://www.democrats.org/support/kerry.html

Muchas gracias, Sra. Rose.

WHAT DEBATE?

No, it won’t be a debate. It will be a performance.

Buzzflash Editorial

Our nation and our democracy is at grave risk – and we have a television media composed of corporate shills who think that they are covering a theatrical performance, for which they have written the reviews in advance.

Meanwhile, outside the “theater,” reality and the truth are kept at bay. This is entertainment after all. Why let the facts get in the way?

http://www.buzzflash.com/editorial/04/09/edi04068.html

more nodal karma:
George Bush: 20 degrees Gemini/ Sagittarius/ eleventh house Gemini
USA Mars: 20 degrees Gemini
Pluto opposition: some collective violence issue?

I also noticed that when Kerry gave his Winter Soldier Testimony, his retro Mars was just about to go direct by progression...and, of course, now, it is just returning to its natal position by progression.

Maybe our swift boat commander CAN do something about this war.

Tony Blair to undergo heart procedure....

http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/international/international-britain-blair.html?hp=&oref=login&pagewanted=print&position=

*******CHECK OUT THIS LINK TO AP********

DU has a link to an AP story that ABC released prematurely. it is a RECAP OF THE DEBATE TONIGHT (WRITTEN IN THE PAST TENSE).

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=875959&mesg_id=875959

THIS IS CLEAR PROOF THAT THEY WRITE THE NEWS BEFORE IT HAPPENS. AMAZING STUFF.

THIS IS AS BAD AS THE HEADLINES "DEWEY DEFEATS TRUMAN" BACK IN 1948.

Amazing times!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
5:58 EDT

labor union members are waving pink slips right now outside the debate site

That's nothing, Mike: Those voting machines are already programmed. See, if we just "fix" the future and have those stovepipes (WH to press) in place, the press will always be right on top of events--maybe even 24 hours ahead of them!

Gee whiz.

Heh Mike! Take a look. They've pulled it. Pitiful really.

Maybe ABC can tell us how Blair's surgery went.

Last time I tried, it was still at yahoo (the story on the debate that hasn't taken place yet).

Pat, this was working as of one minute ago:

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=694&u=/ap/20040930/ap_on_el_pr/debate_rdp_12&printer=1

"The Number One Debate Topic - Bush's Mental Illness"
Unfortunately won't be discussed but we can tell everyone we know about it.

This is a fascinating article about a new study:
"Bush on the Couch" by Dr. Justin Frank.

http://www.prisonplanet.tv/articles/september2004/290904mentalillness.htm

I saw these two hints on dKos yesterday for all those news registration sites:
if they require an email address, use:

kos@dailykos.com
dailykos

If you run across a site that needs registration, try going to www.bugmenot.com
They have logins for every news site I've tried.

Oh, and on the pre-news written ahead of time - last night's Daily Show had already done a prescient bit with Helms as the snotty reporter.
re-run at 7 pm eastern if you have time.

And this just in: Al Franken has challenged Bill O'Liely to a bowling match.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6142903/

To which, O'Liely's handler responded:
“Bill O’Reilly is not going to respond to anything Al Franken says.”

Such tender feelings. Tsk. Tsk.

I am wondering about Rob Couteau's discussion of GWB's astrocatography lines running along the east coast of Florida (natal) and if they will lend him a helping hand tonight. I have lost the link. Do you all remember talking about this lately? Judi- you posted the link. Remember?

I didn't see a discussion here of John Kerry's Mercury (planet of speech) unless I missed it. If so please forgive my duplication. Is his placement good?

Also, Doug Riemer (vedicpredictiveastrology.com) has removed his astrocatography maps he had up for Election 2004 where he had pretty maps (current, not natal) for both Kerry and Bush.
I posted the link a while back. Did anyone keep it or print it who could reference the location of Florida for Kerry's speech tonight. Also for the next two.

Anyone curious about this besides me?

Another Republican president's son endorses Kerry
by kos
Thu Sep 30th, 2004 at 17:23:56 GMT

The ultimate Eisenhower Republican switches parties.
John Eisenhower, son of Republican President Eisenhower, said in a newspaper column this week that he will vote for Democratic Sen. John Kerry for president on Nov. 2.
In a rare public announcement, Eisenhower said he switched his party affiliation from Republican to independent after 50 years after losing confidence in his former party. He said Kerry has demonstrated courage, competence and a concern for tackling the "widening socio-economic gap in this country."

"There are times when we must break with the past, and I believe this is one of them," Eisenhower wrote in the opinion column published Tuesday in The Union Leader of Manchester, N.H.

http://dailykos.com/story/2004/9/30/132357/431

Check this out.
Subject: Florida Elections Ballot.

No more hanging chad problems for Florida. Click below to see the great new electronic voting system Governor Jeb's staff has set up. In fact, you can even cast your vote now by clicking in the box of your choice to insert an "X", and your vote will be tabulated in advance to help officials determine the outcome earlier.

http://wearabledissent.com/101/floridaballot.html

:-)

Beverly,

I'll look for those links; meanwhile, Marjorie Orr has this about Bush's astrocartography:

BUSH's ASTROCARTOGRAPHY
George Bush's astrocartography suggests that areas of special significance for him include Iraq & Saudi Arabia through which his Pluto MC line runs - a real danger point - and that line extends north to Moscow. The Pluto Midheaven line tends to bring up megalomaniac tendencies, with power struggles likely. It is an area where exerting one's will is very difficult.

[John F. Kennedy was assassinated on his Pluto Mid Heaven line through Dallas, though he had a very different chart to Bush, one in which sudden violent death might have been expected. But Bush may be wary on another score, since was elected like JFK under a Jupiter Saturn conjunction in 2000. Every US president in the past 200 years - bar two - elected under a Jupiter Saturn conjunction, was subject to an assassination attempt (some successful); or had to retire through ill health from the White House.]

Bush's Mars MC line also runs through Eastern Russia bordering on China. This Mars line runs directly down through Pakistan and Afghanistan.(All US Presidents who went to war had one of their Mars lines through the war zone.) At home, George Bush is comfortable living in Washington, DC; at his most confident through Houston, Dallas, Oklahoma City, Denver; and at his edgiest from Las Vegas to Los Angeles and the west coast.

http://www.star4cast.com/index2f.asp?page=home%2Easp

Stress of Iraq events has weakened Blair's heart -
going to have an heart procedure/operation

Best description I've seen of the Repugs' convention. Quite humorous and biting (and yes, he definitely gets into the "deeper meaning" of it all).
Should be a great perspective from which to approach tonight's debate.

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v26/n18/ohag01_.html

Beverly,

Try this: http://starcats.com/rcnations.html

Jo: Hello- it is good to talk to you! I just got the link to Couteau

http://www.dominantstar.com/zones.htm

Couteau says the opposite of Orr. He is most unstable in Washington D.C. (in fact, it should be his downfall) and most comfortable in the western states (gun carrying states, the states that voted for him in 2000.

About a year ago when I found Couteau's material I also found disagreement from professional astrologer's posted on google also so I do not know what to make of his work. Much of it seem to pan out to me especially that unaspected Mars which gives him free range to kill. Also his tendency to dystopia in which many, many examples could be sited where he has destroyed existing structures/conventions. Rob has a new article up for Kerry's astrocartography. That should be very interesting. I'm going to go read it now.

Jo: Thanks for the links. Also thanks to the astrologers for their fantastic articles.

http://wearabledissent.com/101/floridaballot.html

:-)
Posted by Shade at September 30, 2004 11:50 PM

Shade: That was a GOOD one! Thanks.

Beverly, Couteau is a very fine and knowledgeable astrologer. When first studying astrology it's good to read several astrologers, eventually you can decide who is the most reliable. The problem with astrology is it mathematically maps out energy. It's that simple, and energy applies to more than one thing and can hit nearly anyplace from an earthquake to a bombing to a car accident. You have to see who and what works for you, what resonates to you. An astrologer could say there is a potential of a bomb and while we are all looking for a bomb, Mt. St. Helens goes off. But I can tell you that Couteau as well as Orr are both very fine astrologers.

That least-aspected planet thing is kinda weird, though. If I followed it, I would be living in Duluth. Duluth?

WAHOOOOO! Would you take a look at this -- Look at our gal Inez!!!

SC-Sen: Internal poll has Tenenbaum surging
by kos
Thu Sep 30th, 2004 at 23:03:13 GMT

Global Strategy Group for Inez Tenenbaum (D). 9/27-29. MoE 4.4%. (9/7-9 results)
Tenenbaum (D) 46 (41)
DeMint (R) 43 (44)
This improvement of Tenenbaum's prospects coincides with advertising about DeMint's sponsorship of bill to replace the current federal income tax system with a new 23% federal sales tax. (By a margin of 57%-27%, SC voters OPPOSE his plan.) But Tenenbaum has enjoyed sharp gains in other areas as well. For example, she has gained 11 points and is now tied with DeMint as the candidate better described as having "the experience a Senator needs."
The poll also shows Tenenbaum's potential for gaining additional support. Only 22% of undecided voters are white Republicans, and 64% of undecided voters are either white women or African-Americans, two of Tenenbaum's strongest groups.

It's a partisan poll, but there's no doubt that the DSCC's ads hammering DeMint on his national sales tax have been amongst the most effective of any race this Senate cycle. I don't recall any other ad moving numbers this way in a Senate race, and given the press the issue has received in South Carolina, I'm sure independent polls will show similar movement.
This race isn't a done deal, not by a long shot.

Senate Elections 2004
http://www.dailykos.com

------------

Her skirt-tails ['scuse the substitution!] are going to bring in some Repub votes for Kerry, esp. among the women... I see purple light shining over South Carolina... and surrounding John Forbes Kerry tonight!

Garry, thanks for your enthusiasm! Truth warriors to the field of darkness... bring the light!

Noel Tyl's index: the posters are giving the debate to Bush. Go to this URL and then go down some and find Pres. Debates

http://www.noeltyl.com/cgibin/index.cgi

Depressing, to say the least

Michael Manvilles Earth Changes Bulletin

http://www.michaelmandeville.com/earthmonitor/ecbulletins/2004/ecb_Sept_29_04.htm

We all know aWol cannot 'win' a debate... he may 'perform' and be part of a performance... Fox is handling the cameras tonight... and according to my understanding of the rules for this 'event' there can be no followup to a question... and there's more, of course. And the Kerry forces are trying to 'dumb down' John so that he can 'reach' the people... I guess all aWol has to do to win is show up. Well, that's more than he did in TANG or Viet Nam... or 9/11/2001...

OH, my God, Oh my God, we are witnessing his meltdown. Thank you, God.

Watching the debate now (on CNN). When Kerry speaks about Bush's failures Bush looks like he's been called into the principal's office.

When Bush speaks, Kerry takes notes. Kerry gives the impression he's got the facts.

Bush isn't accustomed to being told he has blundered. Hmmmm. Now Bush's voice is trembling. (9:27 PM EDT).

Have you ever seen such a pinched up mean little face? Nero.

Kos has an entire thread "Bush is pissed!"

He sure looks like it... grimaced face, simple declarative sentences, and once said Sadaam Hus... then caught himself and said bin laden... he is so pathetic...

Has anyone counted how many times The Chimp has said "hardwork"?

Kerry appears to me to be winning based on the substance of his answers. Bush seems unprepared--"am I imaging this just because I detest the little evil b*****d

Dear god, this is painful! I wish I didn't feel I had a moral responsibility to watch this. This simpering, sniggering, "bitchy" little moron.

Beverly, sorry, just got this message...Rob Couteau's Astrocartography site has a section on the presidents....don't know specifically which one you want...I just google it...this is about the role of the least aspected planet (mine is Uranus)...it's a good thing to know!
http://www.dominantstar.com/astro02.htm

He has an update on John Kerry there.

Kerry is so articulate, never repeats himself. If Dims0m says "mixed messages" about Kerry again I'll scream.
While I'm listening on AirAmerica the DJ adds corrections to Dims0n on a voice-over; GD he is SUCH a Liar!

Teg...I'm not watching for that reason and also I had to get some work out for a friend....

I heard that Laura and dubja were on Dr. Phil....my friend is a repub, a real estate salesman, and a good friend...she just sees the world thru another set of eyes...and she saw that dubja and laura "had good body language"....and she said that THK and JFK didn't....(I can't stand Dr. Phil, so this is something I'm never going to see - and he is a Bush supporter)...well, the sales person waiting on my friend nearly turned purple...she said...well I saw them on Larry King, and they were laughing and holding hands. MAYBE, THK just hated being on Dr. Phil with all that nonsense!

I nearly fell down laughing.

This is from a current DU LBN thread. Please forgive me for the vulgarity........

"He's all hat and no cattle"

All uniform and no service"

All codpiece, no cod"

(Isn't that just wonderful?) lolol

DONW GOES BUSH*DOWN GOES BUSH*DOWN GOES BUSH

...as the late, great Howard Cosell would say when ali knocked someone down. by a 2-1 margin, americans thought bush would win, that's point one. by a 53-46 margin, american disapprove of bush performance. americans are waiting for kerry to show he can do the job. this is the first chance he's had to go head to head and he did well. watch everything start to shift.

Adios Shrub

show msnbc that Kerry won---quickly!!!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6123733/

Common Dreams has a link entitled bush fiddles as World burns...they finally picked up the Nero link.

Parkfield had a 5.0 aftershock, and Mt. St. Helens is getting rumblier.

Blair was born 6 May 1953 and has 4 Gemini rising with Mars at 3 Gemini

http://www.astrodatabank.com/NM/BlairTony.htm

Has to be some connection to Bill Clinton....two world leaders with heart attacks...

OH YES>>>go vote at msnbc....!

I keep refresing that polling place, and every minute Kerry's numbers go up!

haven't they always compared Clinton and Blair as being remarkably similar? The heart condtions add another dimension, don't they?

Judi,
Blair did not have a heart attack, he has an irregular rhythm... is getting a "catheter ablation" for it --- tachycardiac procedure I think I read it was called... It's not invasive and he will be back to ranting in 2-3 days... but he is putting his health at risk...

are you watching the post-debate coverage on NBC? They're talking to some "undecided" voters who all have favorable impressions of KERRY!!!!!!!

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYY!!!

Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee. Even the little jabs of truth caused that smirk to twitch, his eyes from vapid to pissed. I almost feel sorry for him, GW is a whiner and really looked so dumb and childish next to regal Kerry. Woooooooo Hoooooo GO Ker-ry!
Ding! Ding! GW said about his daughters in that telling little glitch 'trying to keep them on a leash' a little Abu Grahib to me. Very telling on how he views women in general. Any woman who thinks he would protect them from terrarists are mascochists with low self esteem.
When Kerry brought up Bush 1 I thought Bushbaby would melt in front of us all.
Ding Dong the Bush is melting!
How's your popcorn?

Vote

National and local news organizations will be conducting online polls during and after the debate asking for readers' opinions. Look for online polls at these national news websites, and make sure to vote in every one of them:

ABC News: http://www.abcnews.com/

CBS News: http://www.cbsnews.com/

CNN: http://www.cnn.com/

Fox News: http://www.foxnews.com/

MSNBC: http://www.msnbc.com/

USA Today: http://www.usatoday.com/

And be sure to check the websites of your local newspapers and TV stations for online polls. It is crucial that you do this in the minutes immediately following the debate.

bhakti,

Have some popcorn! Kerry did an awesome job!

Now I've been to all the websites and can't find polls except at msnbc... almost threw up at Fox, I've never been there! They hype that 'fear' stuff don't they... get your 'terror' book, get your 'terror' book, right here! yuckkkkk

Not bad, not bad at all. Kerry impressed me, the guy is a closer.

Same here--if anyone has the exact links to the poll pages it would be helpful to post them here!

VOTE HERE at a swing site polling site:

http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/index.html

CNN: http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004

MSNBC: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6123733

AOL News: http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/elections/article.adp?id=200...

American Research Group: http://www.americanresearchgroup.com/debatei 

Correct URL for American Research Group poll:

http://www.americanresearchgroup.com/debatei/

ABC News (ask for newsroom): (212) 456-7777 Fax (212) 456-2795 ABC NEWS CHIEF David Westin: (212) 456-6200 Fax: (212) 456-4292, ABC NEWS DIRECTOR Mimi Gurbst: (212) 456-4050 Fax: (212) 456-2795 Email: netaudr@abc.com Nightline: nightline@abcnews.com 20/20: 2020@abc.com Web contact.

CBS News (ask for newsroom): (212) 975-4321 Fax: (212) 975-1893 CBS NEWS CHIEF Andrew Hayward: (212) 975-7825 Fax: (212) 975-7429 NEWS DIRECTOR Marty Gill: (212) 975-6121 Fax: (212) 975-4114 CBS Evening News with Dan Rather: evening@cbsnews.com The Early Show: earlyshow@cbs.com Face The Nation: ftn@cbsnews.com Email: mg3@cbsnews.com Web contact.

CNN: (404) 827-1500 Fax: (404) 827-1906 CNN NEWS CHIEF Eason Jordan: (404) 827-5111 Fax: (404) 827-4215 CNN NEWS DIRECTOR Kim Bondy: (404) 827-1500 Fax: (404) 827-1099 Email: eason.jordan@cnn.com Web contact.

NBC (ask for newsroom): (212) 664-4444 Fax: (212) 664-4426 NBC NEWS CHIEF Neil Shapiro: (212) 664-4773 Fax: (212) 664-2264, NBC NEWS DIRECTOR Thomas Ferraro: (201) 583-5231 Fax: (201) 583-5222 Email: neal.shapiro@nbc.com NBC Nightly News: nightly@nbc.com Today Show: today@nbc.com Dateline NBC: dateline@nbc.com

MSNBC (ask for newsroom): (201) 583-5000 Fax: (201) 583-5453 MSNBC NEWS CHIEF Mark Effron: (201) 583-5101 Fax: (201) 583-5199 Email: mark.effron@msnbc.com MSNBC NEWS DIRECTOR Alison Hawley: (201) 583-5155 Fax: (201) 583-5512 Hardball with Chris Matthews: hardball@msnbc.com Email: world@msnbc.com Web contact.

CNBC: (201) 585-2622 Fax: (201) 583-5453 Email: info@cnbc.com Web contact.

PBS: (703) 739-5000 Fax: (703) 739-8458 The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer, email: newshour@pbs.org

NPR, fax: (202) 513-3329 Ombudsman, Jeffrey Dvorkin: ombudsman@npr.org PBS FACTUAL PROGRAMMING CHIEF Sandy Heberer (703) 739-5036 PBS NEWS CHIEF, SANDY SOWERS (703) 998-2150 PBS SWITCHBOARD (ask for newsroom) (703) 998-2600. Email: newshour@pbs.org All Things Considered: atc@npr.org Morning Edition: morning@npr.org Talk Of The Nation: totn@npr.org Web contact.

AP, fax: (212) 621-7523 Email: info@ap.org

Reuters: (646) 223-4000

United Press International: (202) 898-8000 Fax: (202) 898-8057 Email: tips@upi.com

PAT C YOU ROCK, BABY!!!!!!!!(as the kids say these days....) my fingers are tapping waway....

Thanks Garry!

http://www.time.com/time/

http://www.msmagazine.com/debate_poll.asp

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/08/politics/main641817.shtml

http://www.nbc5i.com/index.html <---dallas tx tv station

http://argusleader.com <--- sioux falls

http://www.nbc5i.com/index.html <---dallas tx tv station

http://argusleader.com <--- sioux falls

http://nbc25.com/webpoll.asp

http://www.tbo.com/

Thanks Jo...I couldn't find a thing on it....

this from a poster at Kos:

NPR(none / 0)

Is pretty shockingly bad tonight. Their reporter 'on scene' who apparently couldn't get a seat w/o a good view said that it was basically a draw and that there were no factual errors. Huh?

corrections@npr.org
ombudsman@npr.org

the cnn results blew me away....!

here is the "have your say" segment of the BBC. Scroll down and there is a poll you can vote in, right now it's Kerry 87 percent Bush 8 percent and 5 percent as a draw.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/talking_point/3704652.stm

Thanks for all the great links posted here. I just went to CBS and their "Pop Question" was who won the debate, "President Bush, John Kerry, or neither man..."

I emailed them asking if Mr. Bush's first name was now "President" and if John Kerry happened to have a title?

Come to think of it BushBaby might have his first name changed to "President". There is a joke in there someplace.

When the debates ended, Sag was rising. I am hoping that's a good sign. Let Kerry's numbers rise as well. Looks like SCUM is trying to spin, sigh. A Repug is now talking of 'substance over style,' oh my. But the one guy I tend to trust, says this, which explains why.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5445086/

September 30, 2004 | 11:43 p.m. ET
The tie goes to the challenger (Keith Olbermann)

If you had heard John Kerry and George Bush for the first time in this first debate, it would've been hard for you to figure out which one was the president, and which one the challenger struggling to coalesce his campaign.

That is very bad news for George Bush.

more....

I just read that Pierce Brosnan took his American citizenship papers on 9/23, but will retain dual citizenship with Ireland. He said he did it so he could vote for John Kerry!

Something else I heard today...Oprah's shows audience was all women, and NONE of them had EVER voted in their lives! And they were in their 40's...

what a picture...

***Three Cheers for Sally***

in this or the last thread, sally gave a three paragraph or so analysis of the debate which basically said kerry would connect with the american people despite what the pundits tried to spin. well, you heard it first on aw from sally. i didn't see any predictions like this anywhere else. sally rules!!!!!

bhakti, you're right on target! the leash comment reminded me of the prisoin scandal in iraq. how sick is this guy (rhetorical ?)

shylurker, is ouida may feeling any better. no need to move to canadia. as nancy has charted, the tide will now turn, it's officially october where i am.

ps. wv, are you ready to take your appointment as head of the fbi when kerry wins? (as predicted by guido)

What to do, what to do, Rove must be close to apoplexy....

On DU someone posted this timeline for the Reichstag fire .... is this Karl Rove's "playbook"?
Has dates...Jan 30, 1933, Hitler appointed Chancellor...
Feb 27 1933, German Parliament (Riechstag) burns down
Feb 28, 1933...
President Hindenburg and Chancellor Hitler invoke Article 48 of the Weimar Constitution, which permits the suspension of civil liberties in time of national emergency. This Decree of the Reich President for the Protection of the People and State abrogates the following constitutional protections:

* Free expression of opinion
* Freedom of the press
* Right of assembly and association
* Right to privacy of postal and electronic communications
* Protection against unlawful searches and seizures
* Individual property rights
* States' right of self-government

A supplemental decree creates the SA (Storm Troops) and SS (Special Security) Federal police agencies.

It gets worse from there....

http://www.weyrich.com/political_issues/reichstag_fire.html

I very humbly thank you Mike. It was the TVenus conjunct Kerry's natal Jupiter and Jupiter rising to his midheaven, and Uranus trine his Venus, and Venus rules Kerry's midheaven and ruled the Asc. tonight when it started and Gemini close to his Mars when it ended. He commanded it from beginning to end. We still have to get to Oct. 10, because John Kerry just became a very very serious and threatening contender for the office.

Bush is in trouble with this one, big trouble. I have a young friend (33) in law school in Boston, she was raised and is a hard core Republican. Plus her best friends were on the 1st flight into the WTC and she has thought GWB walked on water. After the debate she called me practically crying and saying "how didn't I see how frightened and confused he is, has he always been like this?" She goes on to say "I can't vote for him, he doesn't know what he is saying or doing, Kerry was so confidant, so sure, so strong and made me feel safer, what am I going to do?" That's when I knew the Bush administration was in big trouble.

OK..so I am jumping ahead while we celebrate a great showing by Kerry...what's Rove up to next? (My Scoripio paranoia never leaves for long) That's what really worries me... Here is the analysis of the events which were initiated in 1933...
ANALYSIS
The events in 1933 can be summarized as follows:

* While it is not clear whether the Nazis intentionally set the Reichstag fire in order to create a national crisis, or whether the Nazis simply were opportunistic, the event was used as justification for a sharp curtailment in constitutionally guaranteed civil liberties.
* The Nazis took advantage of the additional Federal police powers to suppress opponents.
* It is clear that in other situations, the Nazis did use the tactic of creating a "law and order" crisis so that they could provide a solution which further eroded civil liberties and entrenched their power.
* The right-wing Nazis and the left-wing communists were cut from the same cloth -- the point is not that the far right destroyed civil rights. Rather, the point is that a democracy can be destroyed by creating a law-and-order crisis and offering as a 'solution' the abdication of civil liberties and state's rights to a powerful but unaccountable central authority.

Karl Rove & the Nazis

Several people have mentioned Karl Rove and the expectation that he's got more tricks up his sleeve and "He ain't even started yet". People are expecting an "October surprise" and others have expressed a genuine fear that if BeetleBrain loses, they will do some God-awful deeds while still in the White House.

The Nazis have come up several times on this thread and others. I've read that Karl Rove is actually the son (or grandson) of a Nazi war criminal who was executed (?). I've also read that Karl Rove is Norwegian (?). The word 'Rove' actually means 'take' or 'abscond', it also means 'carnivorous' or 'meat-eating'. That certainly fits.

We all know Schwarzenegger's father (?) was also a Nazi general (?).

We've all read about Prescott Bush's connection with the Nazis and slave labor in the concentration camps.

Scary. Looks like we didn't quite exterminate the cockroaches completely. They moved over to this country before we got a chance to get rid of them.

sally, you're too modest. you need to do a dana carvey church lady dance! i can't believe people have actually gone to bed. savor the evening. it's about time!!! liked the story about your friend sally. this is what we need, people willing to see and listen. bush was a nasty little man tonight. the bush-ap photos released are quite bleak. it's like that movie 'they live' where putting on a certain pair of sun glasses allows you to see that we are ruled, not by humans, but by LIZARD PEOPLE

bush:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2435389&mesg_id=2435389

guilliani:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x936660

That was beautiful, Sally... about your friend's change of heart.

Don't forget... tomorrow is the release of "Going upriver... the long war of John Kerry".

I'm thrilled that people are finally seeing the value of this man.

***DISHONEST DUBYA LYING ACTION FIGURE***

COMES WITH 4 EXCITING OUTFITS
AND 14 AUTHENTIC QUOTES
(YUP, FOLKS HE ACTUALLY SAID 'EM ALL)

"WOULD BE A LOT FUNNIER IF IT WEREN'T SO TRUE"

http://www.kaicurryservices.com/peacecandy/gwbush/dishonestdubya/

Oh Lord Mike those pictures are fantastic. Even as we speak the Rove/Hughes/Cheney/Bush team are trying to figure out how to "destroy" Kerry. And believe me, before the next debate (if there is a next debate) George's handlers will be doing what they can to "handle" him and make him fit to go back on stage.

Kerry never falls with the other debates but George will get better and his party faithful will be so relieved that he hasn't soiled himself they will be crowing loudly over a little success.

I am leaving town for the weekend but when I get back I will write about the next two debates. The next one will have Saturn exactly by degree and minute on GWB's Saturn but there will be a bit more forgiveness of GWB because T Mercury will conj. his Jupiter and coming to a transiting sextile to Pluto and a applying trine to GWB's Uranus. So while he will be protected by the media and cheered by a better (not good)showing, he will not win the debate, it will just be a bit easier for the media to call it a draw. In the next debate that Saturn is in the 3rd house so GWB's pauses will be even greater and George himself will be feeling awkward. However when all is said and done, John Kerry will be perceived as winning all three of these debates and his message will continue to land home to whoever in this country is still undecided, and like my friend changing sides.

a few post-debate musings......

two things that really bothered me: Smirky's twichy comment, "It's not gonna happen...I'm gonna win"(didn't that sound like a small child whose Dad fixed everything for him--including elections?) and the lighting that was darker over Kerry---however, this backfired, I think, because Kerry shined through(hopefully because of the white light we all send)and it also made *'s stammering and blinking all the more plain and painful....was it just me or was he guzzling that water like he wished it was vodka?

keep those mirrors and the white/blue lights going people, the truth just scored a tko......

remember,"going upriver" opens tonight......

http://salon.com/news/feature/2004/10/01/debates/index.html

It's the IQ, stupid
Kerry outsmarts Bush in the crucial first debate.

"The sheer scale of Mr. Bush's foreign policy failures insulates him from its political consequences: voters aren't ready to believe how badly the war in Iraq is going, let alone how badly America's moral position in the world has deteriorated.

But the rest of the world has already lost faith in us. In fact, let me make a prediction: if Mr. Bush gets a second term, we will soon have no democracies left among our allies - no, not even Tony Blair's Britain. Mr. Bush will be left with the support of regimes that don't worry about the legalities - regimes like Vladimir Putin's Russia."

---------------
quote from Paul Krugman today's NYTimes... perhaps after last night's focus on these failures, some Americans who were uninformed before are now informed... one can only hope

For full article see http://nytimes.com/2004/10/01/opinion/01krugman.html?hp

The big difference between between Nazism in the 30's and today is the internet. People are more informed and connected than ever before. Most of the Nazi atrocities went under the radar and public notice. Now we are a generation of talkers. It was so great to read blogs and see how the world was feeling last night as a global unit.
Since the USA chart and GW's chart are alike what I sniff is the eroding facade and dependancy of the Big Daddy (Nazi-Fatherland) mentality. It was watching the angry drunk daddy at the dinner table last night. Wonder if he took it out on wife and leash-girls last night when they got home.
I had a very vivid dream with John Kerry last night. We shook hands.
I certainly sent Blue/White light to him during the debate in real time.

ps After the debate I needed to critique a manuscript for the conference I am teaching at this weekend. It was about a rich brat who's parents never get strong with her tantrums. Not good timing for this poor writer. I just ripped this piece apart and wanted the brat's parents to wake her up :)
BTW didn't GW look JUST like Alfred E Newman from MAD magazine or was that just me?

bhakti,

I agree with your assessment about the difference being the internet... fascism will not have the smooth ride it did in Europe in the 1930s... Isabelle's insight of not being able to tell where she is, what time it is or what country it is speaks to our present situation.

Great dream! and great thought about the USA chart and dubya's residency... yes, let's hope this country is giving up the 'big daddy' concept ...

Fascism... the world's been there, done that... surely we don't need to do it again... we need to get Kerry elected and get about the business of cleaning it out from under the woodwork and every where it hides...

We cannot bask in the delight of last night... Rove and his minions will attempt to put a spin on things, and we must be vigilant and use the wonderful resources posted by Pat C. above to call them on it... namaste

PS Doesn't it feel glorious to actually have the media report these charges of misjudgement and failure of this administration, instead of ignoring Kerry on the campaign trail and running the WH press releases? I noticed on the CBS website that they have a video of 'Bush's closing words' --- how 'fair and balanced' is that?!!!

Gary I had to laugh about your comment about Bush guzzling that water like it was vodka! I was watching the debate with two young people (20's) and one of them kept commenting on the fact that Bush was drinking so much .. even asked out loud if he was drinking gin or what?! The other young person with me also said the veins on Bush's neck looked like they were throbbing so much they half expected his head to explode at any moment and turn into the seven headed hydra! Both young people with me are new registered voters - both now more convinced than ever after seeing this "debate" that Kerry is the one for them.

One number I picked up from the morning TV that seems to be confirming of what we saw last night is before the debates 43% had a favorable opinion of John Kerry after the debate 68% were favorable.

In terms of Kerrys life this was the second biggest night of his life in terms of gaining recognition from the world the other being his convention acceptance speech.

That he could have made such an impact on how others see him is indicative that something big had to be up with his tenth house of status recognition and honer.

That he did as well as he did last night is further conirmation to me that the chart we are useing for him with 5 degrees Libra on the midheaven is correct.Note the full moon on the 28th had the sun at 5 degrees Libra when full moons fall on the the fourth tenth axis it means a change in status and or the position of power one has in the world.

The sun being at 8 degrtees libra last night made it sextile his progressed ascendent for the 5 libra midheaven chart and for what occured last night you would have to have the progressed midheaven involved as well as the transits.

And then of course you had Sun Mars Mercury and Jupiter within just a few degrees of that midheaven.As they are still applyng Kerry should continue to get stronger from this point on.

Last but not least the sun last night was trine his natal mars Urauns and sun mars Jupiter mercury was trine the US uranus.Uranus means change revolution upheavel.

Uranus over throws Saturn in Mythology and I think last night we saw at least one step in this over throw of the negative Saturanin power that has Bush in its thrall.

It was really imnportant to me that Kerry do well last night as I had told friends if we have the right chart on himn he is going to do sensationally.

I dont think it is stretch to say that is what he did in light of what most people though he would do.

Another remark I made the other day is that if we have the right chart on him it is simply inconcievable that he could not win.

If last night is any indication we do indeed have the right chart on him.

Have not checked on next debate but the fact that Bush will have saturn on his natal saturn to a minute of arc I think someone said ought to mean we get to see just what his 12th house Saturn is about.

I should not say we , we already know what it is about but the rest of the world is going to get a chance and I think they will reel back in horror.

On another note I saw that over on the Bush commnet thread at astro data bank someone pointed out that Nostradamus had warned against some named hister and mabus.

Now who might that be? note turn the ma and the a upsde down and you have wgbus or revese the m and the a and you have ambus or americanbus.

I hope we are being fanciful here because it would mean a lot of not so good things coming down the road if Nostradamus had Bus or Bush in mind.

I watched the debates last night too as well as the commentary afterwards. I forget which channel I was watching. But the discussion afterwards made a big deal out of how annoyed Bush looked everytime Kerry was speaking and someone brought up that Bush sighed often. Kerry maintained his dignity and did not give any hint of irritation with anything Bush said. Bush was fidgety, Kerry steady. The guy from Fox that did most of the talking also seemed to think that Bush was irritated throughout most of the debate.

I hope Oct 10 comes and goes quickly with no physical harm done to anyone.

Anyone have any prediction as to how the vice presidential debate next Tuesday will go?

Siobhan,

I thought for a minute aWol might have to ask Jim for a potty break!

Josh has a number of good points on last night's debate --- and a particularly interesting piece on dubya's election campaign:

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2004_09_26.php#003534

"What happens when mockery can't catch up with reality?

I know we're all waiting for the big debate tonight. But somehow I missed this article in today's Post by Dana Milbank and Mike Allen. And it can't go unremarked upon.

You'll remember that a few days ago I joked about whether Iyad Allawi was actually part of the Bush campaign or registered as a 527.

When John Kerry took Allawi's speech to task for presenting an unrealistic view of the situation in Iraq Dick Cheney and the later the president railed against him for disrespecting a prized American ally.

But, like I said, what happens when mockery just can't keep pace with reality?

It seems they decided not to register him as a 527. According to today's Post, "the U.S. government and a representative of President Bush's reelection campaign had been heavily involved in drafting the speech given to Congress last week by interim Iraqi Prime Minister Ayad Allawi."

That's extraordinary. It almost takes your breath away. This whole operation has been saturated in politics from the word go. And the Post piece gives more of the nitty-gritty about Allawi's speech.

But that's really all you need to know. It would be pretty dubious to have the White House writing Allawi's speech. But the Bush campaign itself ...

Bush v. Kerry: The Full Debate Transcript
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/100204Y.shtml

Jo! Same thoughts about the "potty break" - had a laugh on that! I do believe that if the "debate" went on for another hour that Bush would have lost it completely - his anger and inability to control his temper showed so well on his face! I also thought he looked at his most distressed when he was forced to stand there and listen to Kerry rattle off all the wrong things he had done with this un-just war and mishandling of things from the beginning of his term. Sort of like having to stand before justice and face your sins. His face really pinched up having to stand there and listen to it all coming out - and not being able to run! After the "debate" was over we also saw (watching C-Span) that Bush stood for a minute with wife/daughters and then rushed off stage ... Kerry lingered there on stage with his arms around Teresa while people shouted "Ker-ry! Ker-ry!" That was such a fab closing moment!

One more note - I can't help but come away from that debate last night with the image of Bush grabbing that water glass so often and swilling it down .. time after time he seemed to grab for that glass whenever the heat was on him from Kerry. Can't help but wonder, since he's supposed to be a 'recovering alcoholic', what he does when the heat is on him and he's not in front of a camera ... is it real vodka in the oval office?? Does make one wonder ... almost like a reflex action to grab for the glass all the time when you are under stress?

I do however wish that one or two members of Kerry's family could have been there on stage with him. But that is a minor point and does not take away from the fact that he did a great job

I must say, despite all of the positive astrological significators for John Kerry that exist right now I was anxious about last night's debate until they were over.

It truly did seem like Bush was having a tough SATURN MOMENT, I think his return is finally kicking in (just a week after going exact).

It seemed as if all of his handlers fell by the wayside, and all the smoke and mirrors constantly placed around him just vanished and there he was, not charming and folksy, just tired, annoyed, fumbling and angry.

His pretend "town hall" meetings and rallies filled with people signing loyalty oathes just didn't prepare him for the REALITY that Saturn is throwing his way...

Mark Morford -

Does God Hate Florida???

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/g/a/2004/10/01/notes100104.DTL&type=printable

Did anyone else notice that Bush's face turned red when he was particularly angry at Kerry? I watched on C-Span, which showed both throughout (although they set the views so that they were both the same height) and Bush seemed to turn red very often. The first word I'd use to describe him was petulant. Petulant and repeating the same words over and over and over - Joe Scarborough reported that he said "hard work" 11 times.

I'm still dedicated to Wes Clark - a Wes Clark follower for Kerry - and I heard Wes in just about everything Kerry said. (The Clark blog reported several weeks ago that Clark is the one who told Kerry to "tell it like it is" in Iraq.) Go Wes and Go Kerry.

Insolent. That's the word that best describes how bush looked and acted. The camera captured and distilled that attitude for all the world to see.

Can you IMAGINE what this guy's like in a cabinet meeting?

Well last night's debate was "heart candy"!!!!
Loved your phrase "leash girls" Bakhti!

Is anyone else having problems ?
I'm getting network errors connection failures, URL not found; all kinds of grief while trying to do the media response & polls last night.

Thank you Pat C for your posted links! I managed to vote @ msnbc & cnn at least!
Now am going to print out the list you provided & make "old fashioned" phone calls.

Thank you again Verizon for the unlimited service with the capped price per mo. You've done a lot I don't like, but that isn't one of them!
Pat QOP

Pat QOP, you're welcome indeed!

"Mr. Kerry Delivered the Goods"
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/100204X.shtml

I might be alone in this, but while I was glad Kerry said what he DID say, I got the feeling that he spent a bit too much time on the defensive, confirming his steadfastness against Bush's accusations of "mixed messages" and not enough time really driving home the point that Iraq is out of control, that Bush has cut veteran's benefits, and a few other missed opportunities that would have directly contradicted Bush's claims.

Now, please don't misunderstand - I think Kerry stayed cool, was stately and dignified, and I wouldn't have wanted him to get too low-ball, but I just felt that he missed a few golden opportunites. I'm glad the reviews are so heavily in favor of Kerry in spite of it, but I hope in the next 2 debates, he really just nails Bush in SIMPLISTIC TERMS that the misinformed and the not-so-bright can understand. He needs to use pointed soundbytes rather than verbose, sophisticcated answers, in order to reach the swing voters who, until now, have been brainwashed by Faux News and the like.

On the upnote, I particularly enjoyed the 8-9 second deer-in-headlights stare before Bush could regain brain function to finish a sentence. Can't wait for the next ones. I have read astro reports (Vedic) that say the second one might be confusing, but the third one is where Kerry will shred Bush; that Bush will appear to be frail, confused, even ill, and completely ineffective.

Donna,
Not only did I noticed how red his face turned but once or twice I thought he might SPONTANEOUSLY COMBUST! Glad I found out how many times The Chimp said, "Hard work" That was so annoying for me to hear, especially when it's evident from his life that The Chimp knows nothing about hard work.

I too am an admirer of General Clark. I was privileged to meet him, at a fund raising event, when he was in my state campaigning for the Presidential nomination. When I spoke with him it was so clear to me what a very honest and sincere soul he is. I hope he continues in the political arena in some form or another. He has a great deal to offer this country if allowed to do so.

This is just too weird.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1317386,00.html

"I particularly enjoyed the 8-9 second deer-in-headlights stare before Bush could regain brain function to finish a sentence."

Oh Lucy that's so great!

It Was a Rout
William Rivers Pitt
Friday 01 October 2004
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/100204Z.shtml

-snip--
This is what happens when you surround yourself with yes-men. John Kerry put the bricks to Bush and the last four years of his administration
clearly, concisely, eloquently and with devastating effect. Bush reacted like a man who has never, ever had anyone tell him anything other than "Good job, sir."

That is what happens when you have to defend your record as President, something that no one in the media or elsewhere had managed to force Bush to do in the last 1,000 days. In the October 2000 debate, Bush managed to hold his own simply by making promises and telegraphing an aw-shucks charm. On Thursday night, Bush faced a reckoning at the hands of a man who cut his teeth prosecuting and imprisoning mob bosses.

This was not a Bush meltdown. It was an exposure. George W. Bush was required to speak for 90 minutes without having the questions beforehand, facing an opponent far less pliable than the national press corps. The man he has always been, stripped of the hero-worship veneer, was there for all to see.

Don't take my word for it, though.

more...

I'm in complete agreement on Clark. I really love that guy!

I'm going to spead that Scalia peice around far and wide. I think it reflects much more of the neocons that just Scalia.

The Statement That Will Lose Bush the Race
by lapin
Fri Oct 1st, 2004 at 04:41:34 GMT

The topic was homeland security. Kerry listed the litany of Bush failures to secure the homeland: trains and subways unsecured, 95% of shipping containers uninspected, funding for local police and firefighters not available. Kerry said he wanted to change that.
George said: "I don't think we want to get to how he's going to pay for all these promises."

WTF!

I guess the safety of the American public isn't worthy of the same deficit as the Iraqi and Afghani people. But George will make the tax cuts permanent.

Thanks for that one George!"

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/10/1/04135/2106

When liars lie they project and point the finger of themselves onto the 'other'. Gotta give the Chimp credit, he is waking up the people who are in smoke and mirrorland with him with that miserable performace. No wonder they hide him. His love? what was that evengelical stuff he was spouting, he looked ridiculous considering he has so much blood on his hands. My inner eye says this dude is heading for a breakdown. The world saw the Emperor without his clothes last night and calling it out loud.
The Nostradameus mabus anagram was cool. Thanks. Also mabus in the mirror kinda spells saddam. Still think all of these crazy world leaders together is the Anti-light/ choice. Nostradomeus also has a quatrain of 'bouche' spouting blood.
Heard on Air America lots of college kids tuning into the debate. Go Indigos, they are gonna shift the energy and now they seem energized.
Meeting Kerry in dreamstate was a joyous thing, I have such good vibes. He reaches to my higher self and * the lowest. Betcha lots of * supporters are feeling stupid today.

Ammunition:

Just so you know:

I attacked and took over 2 countries.

I spent the U.S. surplus and bankrupted the US Treasury.

I shattered the record for the biggest annual deficit in
history (not easy!).

I set an economic record for the most personal bankruptcies
filed in any 12 month period.

I set all-time record for the biggest drop in the history of
the stock market.

I am the first president in decades to execute a federal
prisoner.

In my first year in office I set the all-time record for
most days on vacation by any president in US history (tough
to beat my dad's, but I did). After taking the entire month
of August off for vacation, I presided over the worst
security failure in US history.

I set the record for most campaign fund raising trips by any
president in US history. In my first two years in office
over 2 million Americans lost their jobs.

I cut unemployment benefits for more out-of-work Americans
than any other president in US history.

I set the all-time record for most real estate foreclosures
in a 12-month period.

I appointed more convicted criminals to administration
positions than any president in US history.

I set the record for the fewest press conferences of any
president, since the advent of TV.

I signed more laws and executive orders amending the
Constitution than any other US president in history.

I presided over the biggest energy crises in US history and
refused to intervene when corruption was revealed.

I cut health care benefits for war veterans.

I set the all-time record for most people worldwide to
simultaneously take to the streets to protest me (15 million
people), shattering the record for protest against any
person in the history of mankind.

I dissolved more international treaties than any president
in US history.

I've made my presidency the most secretive and unaccountable
of any in US history.

Members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration
in US history. (The poorest multimillionaire, Condoleeza
Rice, has a Chevron oil tanker named after her.)

I am the first president in US history to have all 50 states
of the Union simultaneously struggle against bankruptcy.

I presided over the biggest corporate stock market fraud in
any market in any country in the history of the world.

I am the first president in US history to order a US attack
AND military occupation of a sovereign nation, and I did so
against the will of the United Nations and the vast majority
of the international community.

I have created the largest government department bureaucracy
in the history of the United States, called the "Bureau of
Homeland Security" (only one letter away from BS).

I set the all-time record for biggest annual budget spending
increases, more than any other president in US history
(Ronnie was tough to beat, but I did it!!).

I am the first president in US history to compel the United
Nations remove the US from the Human Rights Commission.

I am the first president in US history to have the United
Nations remove the US from the Elections Monitoring Board.

I removed more checks and balances, and have the least
amount of congressional oversight than any presidential
administration in US history I rendered the entire United
Nations irrelevant. I withdrew from the World Court of Law.
I refused to allow inspectors access to US prisoners of war
and by default no longer abide by the Geneva Conventions.

I am the first president in US history to refuse United
Nations election inspectors access during the 2002 US
elections.

I am the all-time US (and world) record holder for most
corporate campaign donations.

The biggest lifetime contributor to my campaign, who is also
one of my best friends, presided over one of the largest
corporate bankruptcy frauds in world history (Kenneth Lay,
former CEO of Enron Corporation).

I spent more money on polls and focus groups than any
president in US history.

I am the first president to run and hide when the US came
under attack (and then lied, saying the enemy had the code
to Air Force 1)

I am the first US president to establish a secret shadow
government.

I took the world's sympathy for the US after 9/11, and in
less than a year made the US the most resented country in
the world (possibly the biggest diplomatic failure in US and
world history).

I am the first US president in history to have a majority of
the people of Europe (71%) view my presidency as the biggest
threat to world peace and stability.

I changed US policy to allow convicted criminals to be
awarded government contracts.

I set the all-time record for the number of administration
appointees who violated US law by not selling their huge
investments in corporations bidding for gov't contracts.

I have removed more freedoms and civil liberties for
Americans than any other president in US! history.

I entered office with the strongest economy in US history
and in less than two years turned every single economic
category heading straight down.

RECORDS AND REFERENCES: I have at least one conviction for
drunk driving in Maine (Texas driving record has been erased
and is not available).

I was AWOL from the National Guard and deserted the military
during time of war.

I refuse to take a drug test or even answer any questions
about drug use. (wink,wink)

All records of my tenure as governor of Texas have been
spirited away to my fathers library, sealed in secrecy and
unavailable for public view.

All records of any SEC investigations into my insider
trading or bankrupt companies are sealed in secrecy and
unavailable for public view.

All minutes of meetings of any public corporation for which
I served on the board are sealed in secrecy and unavailable
for public view.

Any records or minutes from meetings I (or my VP) attended
regarding public energy policy are sealed in secrecy and
unavailable for public review.

With Love,
GEORGE W. BUSH

The White House, Washington, DC
Note: This information should be useful to voters in the
2004 election. Circulate to as many citizens you think would
be helped to be reminded about this record

George said: "I don't think we want to get to how he's going to pay for all these promises."

WTF!

I guess the safety of the American public isn't worthy of the same deficit as the Iraqi and Afghani people. But George will make the tax cuts permanent.

Jo! You nailed it!! This is EXACTLY what I mean - Kerry could have sealed Chimp's fate with that exact response, but it was lost. You should go with him next time! : )

Whoops, sorry, I see that was from Kos, but that is IT!! Kerry should wail away on that one, and add that it was OK to give the top 1% a huge tax refund but it's not OK to spend what's nec. to secure the borders.

Off to the Kerry blog...

I don't think we'll be seeing dimson in another debate - ever. I think last night ended his debating career. If his poll numbers shift back in favor of Kerry in the next few days, look for a raised turraist threat level - or Osama's 'capture'.

Gotta love that Teresa for saying right out loud that she wouldn't be surprised if Osama was "caught" in October... God, I love her!!

Bakhti....the rest of the quote about the finger pointing you mentioned is that 3 fingers are always pointing BACK at the pointer.

Nostradamus used code....all was couched in secret code. AND he was looking into a bowl of liquid while receiving and "seeing"....

I myself am so distrustful of the malign and evil forces which lurk under the surface of this administration that I worry more for Kerry because of the long history of plane crashes and assassinations....not all of which happened to people elected in the 20 year election cycles.

On a personal level, I have this attitude because that is how I have always seen life (so I am projecting 50% of this)....when everything is "tops" disaster follows. Geez...I am so negative. Or is it just history ? Well, this is hat a friend of mine sent last night...and I'm adding Mel Carnahan and Paul Wellstone to the list)
I think it will be simpler...."They" will shoot Kerry..........in the American Tradition of JFK, RFK, MLK and Malcolm X...God I hope I'm wrong.........

Sorry...I hope Jupiter out foxes these evil trolls and protects Kerry as Jupiter always protected Andy Jackson through all of HIS duels....

Teresa...that is the first time I've ever thought Scalia was right about anything....hahahahaha

the scalia thing just doesn't jive
with his opus mundi connections, does
it? self flagellation and orgies??

Sally...your story on your young friend was quite special. I can only hope that this awakening will be shared around the world by all those who are living in illusion. Uranus and Neptune must be working overtime....

We seem to be entering the deeply weird. Evidence:

*Grover Norquist calls those who fought in WWII unAmerican

*Scalia thinks sex orgies are cool, therapeutic.

Seriously, whatever you do, visit Joshua Micah Marshall over at talkingpointsmemo.com Wonderful observations on the debate.

Mimi...I think maybe it DOES jive!

this was in an email I just got from a friend/co-worker of mine who went to the local Democratic HQ to get some signs....

"I got 6 yard signs and four bumper stickers. And a button, but that's for me.

ALSO...while I was there, a registered Republican came in and got a bumpersticker! Said he just couldn't vote for W!"

yes, this occurred in rural, notoriously narrow-minded (read Repug) TN......keep that blue and white light going folks, it's working!!!

.....and now this!

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/

Caught red handed.

Well Kerry may have won the debate, but the clear loser was the American people.

The best line of the night was when Kerry quoted Richard Clark in saying that attacking Iraq in response to 9/11 was like like FDR attacking Mexico in response to Pearl Harbor. How much clearer can one say that the Iraq war was a mistake?

But Kerry still cannot fully bring himself to face the implications of this.

I was really disturbed by Kerry's response to this question from Lehrer:

"LEHRER: Speaking of Vietnam, you spoke to Congress in 1971, after you came back from Vietnam, and you said, quote, How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?

LEHRER: Are Americans now dying in Iraq for a mistake?

KERRY: No, and they don't have to, providing we have the leadership that we put -- that I'm offering.

I believe that we have to win this. The president and I have always agreed on that. "

Doesn't this disturb anyone else? Kerry's position is inconsistent: The war is a mistake and yet our soldiers are not dying for a mistake. Launching the war was a mistake but we're going to win it anyway???

No wonder the astrological indicators for the next administration are so troubling--deception, deception, deception. It was not hard to see Neptune's presence last night and its certain prominence throughout the next administration.

Hey, Lawrie, are you still in FL? And Laurie, someone sent me photos taken from a plane above the hurricane...if anyone wants to see them, email me and I'll send them. They are pretty awsome. Can't imagine flying over the eye of the hurricane.

What if Kerry had responded to Lehrer's question in this way:

"KERRY: Jim, sadly I must say to you and the American people that our soldiers are now dying for a mistake. I have already said that the President made an error in judgment in launching a war that was not a last resort. The sad fact is that this war was not at all necessary. We now know that we were successful in disarming Saddam Hussein. The very worst thing a President can do is to send our brave troops to die in a war that was not necessary. This is the greatest difference between the President and myself. I will never ask our troops to die for a mistake."

I think Kerry would have hit one out of the park with that one. He would have put the focus of the election squarely on the legitimacy of the war just as it is now becoming more and more obviously an unwinnable situation. He would have set the conditions for his administration to take power with a clear exit plan. Lehrer grooved him a pitch right down the middle of the plate and he struck out looking.

ANd hey....Greg Palast said the same thing in his newsletter...this is what Palast said he wished Kerry had said (Gen Wes lark not withstanding)

Here's what Mr. Tall said in my dreams:

* "Beginning in March 2001, your Administration began a series of meetings with oil company executives to map the conquest of Iraq and its oil, a plan Americans would pay for in blood. You originally called this scheme, 'Operation Iraqi Liberation' -- O.I.L. We don't appreciate your little joke, Mr. Small."

* "One month after seizing Baghdad you fired General Jay Garner, the man you put in charge of Iraq, after he called for rapid elections in Najaf; after he refused to impose your plans to sell off Iraq's oil fields. In Najaf, citizens denied ballots, turned to bullets. And then, as General Garner predicted, the seizure of Iraq's assets resulted in the type of war one expects -- when seeking to impose colonial control."

* "Mr. Small, you claim we've given a thousand lives to bring democracy to the Mid-east. But so far, your democracy, Mr. Small, comes down to a puppet prime minister, we've installed in Iraq and a puppet government, the Saudis have installed in Washington."

OK, I can't expect all that in a presidential debate, where the message has to fit through a tube. But still, Mr. Tall could have won my vote with two words. It's the two-word answer John Kerry gave three decades ago when asked the same question -- "How can we get our troops out of a disastrous war?"

Then, the clear-minded, tall young men said, "In ships."

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/100204W.shtml

About War

    Slogans -- that's war for most folks. War is Hell. Support The Troops. Uncle Sam Wants You. Yellow ribbons and candlelight vigils. War.

    Listen friend, war, is electric. It's a jangle of short-wired nerves; raw blue sparks that jump the gaps of politics and twist the ignition key of survival. War is living fast, hard, and furious, life between the teeth. You are never so alive as when you're about to die. War is a five-and-dime store of friction toys and cheap tin thrills. War, is all the power of heaven accessed through the front door of hell.

    War is a mad minute, sixty seconds of Godhood: let there be light in the rocket's red glare and the Zippo flame of razed hootches. God is an amateur who took six days to create the earth, but a grunt with a radio and artillery and air support is true holy power in a fiery obliteration of inhabitants and geography - all in less then six minutes.

    War is weather. Sometimes so hot, you have to chew a hole in the heat and swallow, just to get a breath of fresh air. And sweat that drips from the leaky faucet of your pores and into your eyes; sweat that scalds and blinds. So hot you could have lunch with the Devil.

    And there's the rain, day after day and night after night. Warm rain, muggy rain at first, slick oily droplets skidding across your skin in a muddy film that never refreshes. Then night rain, dark rain with a chilly breeze that crawls inside your fatigues and pools around your ankles and crotch, and quietly peels away the layers of your wrinkled soggy flesh.

    War is solitaire. Humping, marching, moving or standing watch, a soldier packs a rucksack, weapon, ammo, and thoughts. Always thoughts. The only retreat allowed in war is the retreat inside your own head. Eyes are on the terrain while radar sensors process the physical world, clicking and categorizing shapes and shadows. But the mind is crowded with another world and a cast of thousands. It's all there, living in the past and living in the future, while praying to survive the present.

More....

I think Kerry is dealing with an existing war he would not have started. I also think he is not prepared to just pull out because of the consequences.

Pat C....tried to access Talking Points on "Caught Red Handed"....the site is acting weird...not loading completely, flashing on and off.....either too many people are trying to go there or it is being hacked?

Pat C....I agree with you...but the anti war part of the Dem party sure doesn't! I think it is all moot...whatever happens Nov 2, someone has to deal with it and go forward. Kerry may go back to his past or he may have changed. I think also that just pulling out is not the answer. But getting the allies on board IS.

Mr. St. Henlens just blew!

I was just there and it worked fine.

Judi, I just tried it, and it came up. It's too good to miss.

Pat C....were you the one who posted the link to a site where all the passwords for the news sites are? I can't find it now...

Pat C....I read it, but when I posted my last post, Internet Explorer crashed....I don't know what is happening....

You know, wouldn't it be funny if someone at Fox was actually making stuff up and it got accidentally posted? pretty funny...except lots of people are going to believe it.

Timothy, yes, I agree, he really missed several good opportunities to slam-dunk the monkey, damn it! He did well, but he didn't get a really CLEAR message across, and he let some things slide that would have just brought Bush to his knees. There would have been boils popping out all over.

CNN just reported that the explosion which just happened on MT ST Helens is the direct result of the Parkfield earthquake on Tuesday ...now they say that a really deep earthquake tectonic plate shift might dislodge the magma and start a flow...right now it is just steam and ash.

Today entered small family-operated service station to pay for gas ($1.95 a gallon). The woman behind the counter said, "I see you're wearing a Kerry button. I'm a Republican."

I nodded (and thought, "be tactful.") She said, "Could I ask you a question?"

"Sure," I said, ready for anything.

"Can I vote for Kerry? I like him, and I don't like Bush."

"Sure," I said, "in the General Election you can vote for anyone you want."

Reminded me that in 2002 I met a guy who didn't like Jeb, but he said he had signed a paper the Republican Party sent him wherein he swore to always vote Republican.

Speaking of the debate, here is a link that is very interesting:

nationinstitute.org/tomdispatch/index.mhtml?emx=x&pld=1871

I hope I entered that correctly. The author talks about how we make sense of our lives through our stories, and the "America Good/ Enemies Evil" story is one that is believed by a lot of the electorate. I'm not doing the essay justice--and it is worth the read.

It is clear that the Astrologer/Authors and the posters on this board have their stories or worldviews, and they seem to feature interconnectedness rather than dichotomy, and overarching universal themes rather than tribalism.

Hello all! My 17-yr old daughter and I just got back from a Kerry rally in Tampa at the SunDome at USF. Kerry was marvelous.

Kerry never said any of those things Fox is reporting. They must be desperate.

Kerry is surreal in person, such a presence . . . a caring person with an aura of deep purple, he wants very badly to heal this nation.

He was awesome, just magnificent. Kerry IS the president already, it shows.

Met lots of great folks today as we stood there for 2 hours waiting for the prize. I feel very elated and strengthened.

Oh gee, meant to tell you, the Sundome was PACKED to capacity. There must have been at least 20,000 people there!! And such excellent energy, I felt it thoroughly.

Let me try that again

http://www.nationinstitute.org/tomdispatch/index.mhtml?emx=x&pld=1871

Timothy, Lucy, others -

I think Kerry did pass up some moments when he could have gone for the jugular. However, I think he came across in a very positive way with the people and the media last night. I think if he had really cornered dimson, he would have been called ruthless, mean, etc. etc. One thing that's very different from the debates of 2000 is that back then both were on somewhat equal footing - neither being a sitting president - both just challengers. I think the challenger in a contest with a sitting president has the added burden of remaining 'respectful' of the man occupying the position. I think it's a delicate balance, but I believe Kerry played it just right last night. Even on this board I've read comments indicating that people kinda 'feel sorry' for shrub at times. The last thing the democrats need now is a Poor George pity party going on in the media and with voters if they sense(d) that poor George is being 'mistreated' by Kerry and that there isn't the proper respect being demonstrated.

Pat C.,

Looked thru my in on media and your info on media posted above and don't have email for fox or tel number... I want to give them a rant about the lying article they posted on their website that Josh Marshall refers to [and which has been pulled?] --- think some of us should let Fox know we don't appreciate their lies about our candidate... such sore losers! Their guy lost, so they post lies Kerry is supposed to have said? Sicko, really sicko!!!

Laurie, that is awesome....thanks for that post....

Now the body language people are coming out on the debate....I got an email from my daughter about it....but it is really too much to post. Came from Yahoo news, but I couldn't find a URL...

so that makes me even more grateful that Laurie posted that...

Timothy, Lucy --

Hey guys, our candidate isn't perfect... sure he didn't say everything we each would have wanted him to say... but by all counts, he won the debate. His body language was terrific... never a petulant grimace like dubya (all the time)... he stood tall and always had at least one arm on the podium, in a defenseless, casual, informal manner... not lying into it, grabbing it like he was going to chew it up, like the other feller did... Kerry looked at dubya when he was speaking, which is polite, I think... made notes at times... never engaged in personal attack... didn't talk in soundbites, but didn't dumb down either... or sound too intellectual... politics is a little like poker, you have to keep some things close to your chest... not give your opponent everything. This was the first debate. It was ohhhh soooooo crucial... in fact, nothing should carry that much weight... but it did... Kerry walked on to that stage knowing this was America's first opportunity to see the two of them side by side. And perhaps the first time for many Americans to hear his position on foreign policy, cause goodness knows the media has not covered his speeches... So, given that--- and given there was a time limit, and given dubya is a loose cannon and we already knew he was subject to cutting in, to asking for additional time for rebuttal, which he did, not once but twice... and Kerry would have to be above all that...

I do not know how Kerry came off so magnificently last light --- hey, even the tv lighting was for the other guy! But he did. So I rejoice. And await the next debates and the election. And victory.

Here's link to screen shot of the phony story put up on Fox's website and then pulled... low, even for Faux Noos...
http://homepage.mac.com/r_asplund/.Pictures/fox/foxnews.jpg

I've been telling here, October will finish shrub
off - yes the END of shrub

As predicted, Kerry whacked, thumped, slammed shru
to smithereens; shrub is now hopeless.Even cons
repugs admit Kerry was a winner last night. Now
some repugs are wishing a turn around like ronnie
vs. Mondale but that is wishful thinking because
shrub is not teflon like ronnie nor can you caompare Mondale to Kerry who is 1000 times better
than Mondale.Matter of fact, Kerry can beat Clinto
in a debate. Kerry is like in the Major league in
debating, so the Fat Lady just sung it for shrub
last night.It will be 3-0 after the debates for
Kerry and Edwards will slam corrupt cheny in VP's.

By the way, I'm off and running to Asia 10/2,so bye all til end of October.

Bhakti and Jo

When, as Guido predicts, I become FBI Director,
believe me there will be internment camps in
the middle of the Nevada desert. They will be
holding cells for the World Court. And they will
be packed.

couldn't resist to put this info for dear folks
here - stariq.com has a an interesting take on uk
usa and aus on 30 yr. cycle effects(by the way all
3 connected by English and colonies)

Jo,
Kerry has been an A ONE debator since 10 yr old, winning trophies for his school, then for Yale unlike shrub who was a boozer in Yale and all his
life! Forget it, this debate contest is like a whitewash, all one sided even with all the coachin
for the drunkard p-resident! There is an Indian
adage - you can't straighten a dog's tail!

Have a wonderful trip, Raj. We will miss you. Perhaps you will be able to access the internet (thanks, Al) while you're in the East and be in touch with us anyway.

Well worth a read and a listen - Robert Fisk
on Democracy Now! today. There are often long
pauses while the audio catches up. He is certainly
one of the better correspondants covering the
Middle East, espcially Iraq. He pulls no punches.

http://207.44.245.159/audio1001.htm

Greg Palast check in...

http://207.44.245.159/article6993.htm

Raj,

I love that expression: 'can't straighten a dog's tail! You have a wonderful time in Asia... know that you will be missed... you will of course be back in time to vote, or did you already? namaste

Would one of you kind astrologers please give a synopsis of what to expect up to the election? The stuff about Kerry birth times?? has that been resolved to where he got the best stars... and his tide has turned into the river bank for the win?

You people have helped keep me sane(r) thru this dark night of soul-- these past 4 looking glass years.
thank you
fala

WV,

I know you will be on the job! We'll certainly need a place as big as the Nevada desert to hold these guys...

What did you think of the unmitigated gall of aWol bringing up the move against the World Court last night? He made an excuse that he didn't think a world court ought to try Americans for criminal acts... he failed to explain to the American people that he covered his own butt in that regard!

Fox News has now posted a retraction and apology for the piece with the fabricated Kerry quotes ...

Earlier Friday, FOXNews.com posted an item purporting to contain quotations from Kerry. The item was based on a reporter’s partial script that had been written in jest and should not have been posted or broadcast. We regret the error, which occurred because of fatigue and bad judgment, not malice.
The only retraction doesn't name the reporter in question, Carl Cameron, which was noted in the statement Fox News gave TPM this afternoon.

-- Josh Marshall

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/003555.php

Jo, His bringing up the World Court meant to me that he's worried about being charged with war crimes. They will now get more and more desperate. Already there is supposed to be a tape out there from OBL's second-in-command or some such ordering new attacks.

Laurie,

I had the same experience when I attended a Kerry rally... the people were jubilant.

I think it is of utmost importance that Kerry maintain his dignity and not come down to this blood in the colosseum level of the others.
We will rejoice in that and be proud when this is over and he is our President.

Oh, fala, we are a cozy little group, aren't we? I don't know what I'd do without all our friends here, either.

I just talked to my beloved uncle in Massachusetts who remembers getting arrested in an antiwar protest with John Kerry mant years ago.

I have touched fame!

***FOX NEEDS TO BE SHUT DOWN***

i don't care if the fcc does it or if george soros engages in some form market attack or if the sec finds some accounting snafu. these guys have to go: off the air; out of america; out of business. fabricating quotes from a joke transcript indeed. they did it knowing (a) the stooges out there who need red meat will use the material anyway and (b) they pay no price (they think).

fox is first on the list. others will follow like aol time-warner, nbc (all of them), and the NYT and Wash Post. the ineptitude and collaboration with the heinous one over the past four years has meant death and destruction to innocent people all over the world and the trampling of the best hopes we have for a civil society. screw them!!!

Worth a watch---Really Shows Bush at his Best!

New Debate Web Video: Bush Misleads, Kerry Calls Him On It

The verdict is in: with confidence and conviction, Kerry made the case against Bush's disastrous foreign policy – and Bush couldn't take the heat.

http://www.moveonpac.org/#

Mike,

I agree with you 100%!Do you think they have so corrupted themselves, they too realize they can't survive if dubya loses? Some Kossacks were saying there's no point in complaining to the fcc, and Josh appears to hope the WaPo will pick on the nasty bit of dirty politics --- but is there anything we can do now? Somebody we can email?

btw, I've been hearing rumors that AOL has a 'back door' that Ashcroft can access... has anyone else heard this?

Colin Powell was in Atlanta today, whoring for dubya... Yahoo News has a report... methinks the WH is running scared to bring the 'attack' dog out after months in mothballs... what do you guys think?

THE PICTURE OF DORIAN BUSH

"After about a quarter of an hour, he got the coachman and one of the footmen and crept upstairs. ...

When they entered, they found hanging upon the wall a splendid portrait of their master as they had last seen him, in all the wonder of his exquisite youth and beauty. Lying on the floor was a dead man, in evening dress, with a knife in his heart. He was withered, wrinkled, and loathsome of visage. It was not till they had examined the rings that they recognized who it was."

Oscar Wilde, The Picture of Dorian Gray

WV, i knew Guido made the right choice for the FBI!

Jo, the 'big dogs' can go after the media at their level if they want to, e.g., soros, other financial interests with integrity/guts. we have the real power, however. just stop waching. it nailed cnn. just stop listening. it will, i predict, destroy NPR (please no more of that stupid music they use for transitions!). just stop buying your local newspaper (unless its fair). it will drive their revenues down.

someone needs to crystalize this by letting the 50% plus who support kerry know that the corporate media is public enemy #1. probably our soul-brother michael moore!

Mike,

You're right... I haven't listened to NPR for over a year now... my husband still does, and I try to tell him how biased Jim Lehrer is... as for the networks, I don't watch tv, and I don't have cable. My dad taped the debate for me last night on CNN. I watched it on the networks. But I don't watch them. You're right... if the 50% plus (I don't believe the polls) that support Kerry would turn 'em off, they would get the message.

Here's a link to show how Fox added 3 inches to Bush last night:

http://www.conspire.com/fox-photoshop.jpg

Jo, Kerry still looks more presidential doesn't he?

So...I was right about the Fox News item...well, that's what comes form dealing with newspaper advertising for so many years. You KNOW that some of the people working for these outlets would rather be working for Jon Stewart...

One of the artists I worked with years ago in PHX did a jewelry ad for the Republic & Gazette for the store we worked for....had charm bracelets in it....he arranged the letters on the charm bracelet to make an anagram of F*U*C*K.....

He almost got fired....

I wonder if this reporter will get fired.

One of the reasons why Lehr has been shackled is that NPR's funding would have been cut off by the rethugs, as they have tried to do to the NEA....the deal they struck was to be more "balanced" or HAVE THEIR HEADS CUT OFF. That is why Jim Lehr looks constipated all the time.

SF posters...I no longer take the SF Chronicle or watch much tv....but when I was visiting my mother in the nursing home today, a copy of the Chron was on the patio table, and I snuck a peek at the debate reporting. Apparently they got a bunch of undecideds in a room and polled them afterwards. They are all from conservative east bay communities. Unbelieveable....just unbelieveable that people are this ...what, what's the word...REPRESSED and passive?...Pat C....You probably saw this...WV, too? What blew me away were the comments that Kerry was MEAN! MEAN to Bush....exuse me, but SH*T....what kind of passive aggressive people are out there? Nearly 1100 men and women have died in Iraq and these idiots are saying Kerry was too MEAN to Bush? On the other hand, some people said he wasn't forceful enough....so he was weak....

Someone pass the koolaid, please...

What kind of astrological configurations give us people who still don't have a clue as to what is going on in the world? ...I vote for Neptune.

I agree that the mainstream news is biased and out-of-touch, but, in all fairness, I've been reading the NY Times for the last few years and most of the editorial writers are consistently critical of Bush (Krugman, Doud, Krystoff, Herbert), as well as Frank Rich. The daily editorial has also been largely critical of Bush. Of the 2 exceptions, Safire and Brooks, even Brooks seemed to be coming around a bit.

David Brooks is a charter member of the Neocons... he used to be with the Weekly Standard, the bible for the Neocons...

I miss John Lennon:
The more real we get the more unreal everything else is. John Lennon

Last night I flipped channels after the debate and saw Brooks in mid sentence saying "but Bush addressed the "substance".....then the next day I heard the spin from the rethugs was that Bush was talking about SUBSTANCE and Kerry wasn't....add that to the "body language" rap, and we've got spin...right Jo?

Just got this email update from a Brazilian music band that makes bay area its home:
CAN YOU STAND FOUR MORE YEARS?
IF NOT, GET OFF YOUR BUTT AND BOOGIE TO UNSEAT BUSH:

Brazilian Night: A dance party to benefit John Kerry (via moveon.org)

When: Saturday, Oct. 2nd, 9 pm, on
Where: Shattuck Downlow, 2284 Shattuck at Bancroft, downtown Berkeley
Featuring: Nobody From Ipanema (voted a finalist for "San Francisco's
Best International Dance Band" two years running) PLUS opening band
Tambores do Brasil (featuring "the Brazilian Tina Turner", Dandara and
amazing percussion from Ile Aye drummers Marcio and Julio) PLUS DJ Ruben

Tickets: From $10 up (sliding scale: how much is it worth it to you to
beat Bush?). Advance tickets available at World Dance Center, 1831
Solano Ave., Berkeley, 528-1958.

Mike, I don't want to destroy PBS....or NPR....but geez....the commercials? (Even tho I've actually DONE commercials for PBS, for Saturn cars)....even though it is funded by the public, a small part of the budget comes from government funding. But the Corps have to get their plugs in....this is no longer a committment to public TV...this is corporate/gov headlock tv. Maybe what we would rather see, if I may be so bold, is a return to integrity and a committment to the public again...

Jo, you wrote:
btw, I've been hearing rumors that AOL has a 'back door' that Ashcroft can access... has anyone else heard this?

I would say, if these guys who run AOL/Time/Warner are in support of the agenda being run by the WH now, then the back door is open and being helped out by the spy program which the ISPs have been forced to use for the last several years....

I think it is more telling that Bill Gates has a back door into every facility using Microsoft ...every bank, every gov. office.....(told to me by a guy who was and is a consultant to businesses). He told me the NAVY switched to Macs because of the encryption and lack of a "back door" into the system.

Just catching up with all the wonderful posts!! My mom had hip surgery today, so things have been pretty hectic. Hopefully, we are in recovery mode now.

The Bush Saturn return is taking hold now. We are in the final 30 minutes of the first pass, up to October 9th. Then for a few more days it continues to sit on the Inagural IC, and it really remains very close to both til early December. There is nowhere for Bush to hide. I think he will be as bad or worse in the next debate with Saturn exactly on his Saturn. And remember, his progressed Venus is now square to his natal Saturn as well. His likeablity quotient has deteriorated.

If, as chas says, the 8:03 chart is correct, Jupiter will cross Kerry's MC from the 16th to the 20th. He will be on top of the world. In fact, Jupiter will be on his Neptune from the 9th to the 14th. That is another time of feeling very euphoric. It suggests he wipes the floor with Bush after number 2.

I do think Bush may get back a little of his charm during number 3 with the Sun Moon conjunction sextile his Venus. But if the 8:03 chart holds, it won't matter. Jupiter will come to Kerry's MC withing a couple of days.

Nancy, thanks for taking the time to comment after such a day with your Mom... hope the recovery goes smoothly... Light to you and your Mom and family...

Great to hear your assessment... even better to hear such affirmation of what we are feeling... 'mop the floor' is something I can hang onto! Go Saturn... Power to the people! Light to all...

Nancy, I hope your mother's recovery goes smoothly and quickly. My mother is going in for another round with the surgeon on the 19th. Successful recoveries for both ladies I hope.

Thanks, Jo.

All good thoughts to the healing ladies!

..................

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99996468
IG Nobels are out!

...................

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/100204U.shtml
Richard Avedon, Dean of Photographers, Is Dead at 81

..................

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/100204B.shtml
It's the IQ Stupid

...................

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/100204D.shtml
Time to Recognize State Terror

...................

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/100204E.shtml
World Citizens Use Web to Weigh In on U.S. Foreign Policy

http://www.daykeeperjournal.com/feature2.shtml

America the Beautiful - A Call to Struggle

snip

As Bates contemplated her country's destiny in that Colorado hotel room, the "robber barons" had emerged as a major political and economic force, the massacre at Wounded Knee had crushed Native American resistance to the conquest of the Plains, and the Ku Klux Klan ruled the states of the former Confederacy. That same year, the U.S. Supreme Court issued its infamous "separate but equal" doctrine, giving a stamp of approval to segregation and Jim Crow for another 60 years. The American labor movement was still reeling from the attacks upon it after the Haymarket events of 1886. And there was a growing cry in ruling circles and the monopoly press for America to "realize its manifest destiny," extending its empire to Asia and Latin America.

It was against this background that Bates recorded both her love for her country and her protest against the greed and exploitation of capitalism. Her greatest hope was that America would some day be governed more wisely, would become more faithful to the ideals of democracy and equality. Every verse of her poem began with an expression of love, but ended in a prayer that sought forgiveness for America's flaws:

America! America!
God mend thine every flaw,
Confirm thy soul in self-control,
Thy liberty in law!

Her disdain for capitalism in the age of the "robber barons" is reflected in verse 3:

More...

Kerry destroyed Bush and the American people know it. Period.

-- FREEPERS, FINALLY REALIZING THAT THEIR BOY HAS NO BRAINS---

"I had that feeling that Kerry had the questions beforehand.
He seemed to have his answers right on target.
Bush seemed like he was surprised by the questions.
I wish they could investigate to see if the DNC got a hold of the questions beforehand."

i admit it, i gave kerry the questions. but don't tell anybody. i feel really bad about it with bush looking like the goof-ball he is and his staff having to put up with the tantrums. won't do it again. sorry

Sidney Blumenthal reviews the debate...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,5029958-103677,00.html

White House backs torture-abroad law
Bypasses U.S. interrogation restraints

`Rendition' bill angers Canadian Arar

MICHELLE SHEPHARD
STAFF REPORTER

The White House has endorsed a proposed bill that would make it legal for U.S. intelligence officials to deport individuals to countries known to use torture to extract information.

The "9/11 Recommendations Implementation Act" marks the first time the U.S. government has officially scripted its policy known as "extraordinary rendition," whereby American authorities can circumvent their own restraints on interrogations by sending suspects to countries known to employ harsh tactics.

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_PrintFriendly&c=Article&cid=1096582209989&call_pageid=968332188854

US bases in Iraq: sticky politics, hard math

By David R. Francis

If a new Iraq government should agree to let American forces stay on, how many bases will the US request? One, as the United States Army currently maintains in Honduras? Six, the number of installations it lists in the Netherlands. Or maybe 12? The Pentagon isn't saying.

But a dozen is the number of so-called "enduring bases" located by John Pike, director of GlobalSecurities.org. His military affairs website gives their names. They include, for example, Camp Victory at the Baghdad airfield and Camp Renegade in Kirkuk. The Chicago Tribune last March said US engineers are constructing 14 "enduring bases," but Mr. Pike hasn't located two of them.

Note the terminology "enduring" bases. That's Pentagon-speak for long-term encampments - not necessarily permanent, but not just a tent on a wood platform either. It all suggests a planned indefinite stay on Iraqi soil that will cost US taxpayers for years to come.

The actual amount depends on how many troops are stationed there for the long term. If the US decides to reduce its forces there from the 138,000 now to, say, 50,000, and station them in bases, the costs would run between $5 billion to $7 billion a year, estimates Gordon Adams, director of Security Policy Studies at George Washington University in Washington, D.C. That's two to three times as much as the annual American subsidy to Israel. Providing protection for Israel is one of several reasons some analysts cite for the US invasion of Iraq.

If more troops are based in Iraq for the long haul, the cost would be higher. US Army planners are preparing to maintain the current level of forces in Iraq at least through 2007, The New York Times reported this week. But no decision has been made at the political level.

So far, the Bush administration has not publicly indicated that it will seek permanent bases in Iraq to replace those recently given up in Saudi Arabia, a possibility mentioned by Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz before US forces moved into Iraq. The US already has bases in Kuwait and Qatar.

At an April 2003 press conference, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said any suggestion that the US is planning a permanent military presence in Iraq is "inaccurate and unfortunate." With the presidential election weeks away, he is unlikely to alter that pronouncement on such a politically touchy matter. Such a move would almost certainly attract fire from Democratic candidate John Kerry.

Nonetheless, several military experts in Washington assume Iraq's new government will need the support of American troops - and thus "permanent" bases - for years, perhaps decades, to come.

The US already has 890 military installations in foreign countries, ranging from major Air Force bases to smaller installations, say a radar facility. Perhaps bases in Iraq would enable the Pentagon to close a few of those facilities. As part of a post-cold-war shift in its global posture, the Defense Department has been cutting the number of its installations in Germany, which total more than 100. Last week Mr. Rumsfeld testified about a global "rearrangement" of US forces to the Senate Armed Forces Committee.

"Who needs Germany when we have Iraq?" asks Mr. Pike of GlobalSecurities.org.

Building bases in Iraq has risks. Two Americans beheaded last week were working as civil engineers constructing the Taji military base north of Baghdad, one of the bases Pike lists as "enduring."

The bigger risk: Polls find that at least 80 percent of Iraqis - whatever their views on the insurgency, democracy, the removal of Saddam Hussein, and other issues - want US armed forces to leave their nation. Making the bases permanent could stir up more opposition to the US occupation.

Another fear, however, is that without US bases, the various Iraqi factions - the Shiites, Sunnis, and Kurds - would fall into civil war. In turn, this conflict could drag in Iran, Syria, and Turkey, leading to a widespread conflict in the Middle East. Hope of establishing a democracy in an Arab nation would fade.

To avoid these risks, an Iraq government will accept a US military presence despite popular disapproval, Pike says. "An indefinite American presence in Iraq is the ultimate guarantor of some quasi-pluralistic government."

Also, withdrawal of US forces would be seen by Iraqi insurgents as a victory, prompting them to redouble their efforts to kill Americans, says Thomas Donnelly, a military expert at the American Enterprise Institute in Washington.

The US can afford maintaining bases in Iraq, he argues. US defense spending now amounts to a bit more than 4 percent of gross domestic product, the nation's output of goods and services. It might rise as a result of Iraq bases to 5 percent of GDP, still less than the 6.5 percent of GDP in the cold war or the 10 percent during the Vietnam War.

Not everyone agrees. Permanent bases in Iraq are a "disastrously bad idea," says Jessica Mathews, president of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace in Washington. It reinforces Iraqi suspicions that the US launched the war to get a hand on Iraqi oil, control the region, and wants to maintain a puppet government in Baghdad.

The total cost of the Iraq war has reached $125 billion to $140 billion, estimates Mr. Adams. Reconstruction boosts the total to as high as $175 billion. Permanent bases would keep the tab running for years to come.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0930/p17s02-cogn.html

Howard Dean Book excerpt:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4051809

I hadn't started out a Bush-basher. In fact, I'd been predisposed to like George Bush. I knew him personally and had dealt with him professionally when we were both governors. He'd always been charming and hospitable to me and my family, both in the Governor's Mansion in Texas and at the White House. He'd always been more than upright in the business dealings between our states, keeping his word when he had no legal obligation to do so. What I knew of his record in Texas bespoke a moderate man who was willing to put pragmatism before ideology, to raise taxes when necessary to equalize state education spending, and to take some heat from the right wing of his party for doing so. ("I hate those people," he'd once snarled at me when I ribbed him at a White House governors' gathering about some trouble he was having in Texas with the Christian Coalition.)

I'd approached his presidency with an open mind. I hadn't voted for Bush, but I didn't expect the worst of him, either. After all, I'd always been in the moderate middle of my own party -- a staunch advocate of fiscal discipline, a devotee of balanced budgets, pro-choice but also pro-gun owners' rights, and in favor of the death penalty in some instances. In my races for governor, I'd always enjoyed the support of a certain number of moderate Republicans who shared my commitment to balanced budgets and responsible social spending. "Compassionate conservatism" sounded like something I could live with until the next Democrat ran. And from what I knew of George W. Bush's personality and temperament, I figured I could live with him, too.

I was astounded, then, when Bush cast moderation and conservatism aside and took up the mantle of right-wing extremism. He surrounded himself with radical ideologues and extremists: people who made a crusade of our foreign policy and polluted our government institutions with fundamentalist bigotry. I was shocked when the president set out to dismantle the social programs that Americans hold most dear: Social Security and Medicare. When he set out to undermine our system of public education with a bill called No Child Left Behind, which threatened to classify every public school in America as a failed institution within nine years. When he took aim at women through virulent anti-choice policies and at ethnic minorities through his repeated references to nonexistent "quotas."

None of this squared with the George Bush I knew. The lies and manipulations that lay behind such sham policies as No Child Left Behind (or No School Board Left Standing, as I came to call it) shocked me, coming from a man I remembered as having truly cared about things like education reform and improving opportunity for all children.

The sheer stupidity of much of what came out of the White House surprised me, because I knew firsthand that George W. Bush was not, by any means, a stupid man.

I doubted that he'd really changed his views. It seemed unlikely that he'd gone, in a matter of months, from moderation to the far side of the dark side of the American political spectrum. No -- I concluded that once he'd gotten into the Oval Office, he'd become so disconnected from ordinary people and the details of their lives that he'd let the Republican Party's ideology get the better of him. He was missing the fine points of how that ideology affected ordinary people because he just didn't care about the details.

He painted the broad strokes of his policies and then left the details to Congress or the political hacks in his administration. Letting the chips fall where they might for millions of children. And sick people. And elderly Americans.

That lack of caring, that shrugging off of the details of ordinary Americans' lives, was every bit as enraging to me as purposeful, hateful extremism. It seemed to me, in some ways, even worse. It was callous and opportunistic. And it showed a willingness to put real people -- real, ordinary Americans -- in jeopardy.

Even more infuriating was the way my fellow Democrats went along for the ride, voting so much of the time to advance the president's perilous agenda. They approved his tax cuts, the Medicare prescription-drug act, the war resolution, and educational "reforms" -- all destructive measures that wouldn't have passed without their support.

The Democrats were acting as though Bush had been elected with a five-million-vote plurality and not, as was the case, with five hundred thousand fewer popular votes than Al Gore. They weren't acting like an opposition party. They barely stood up to the president. When he asked for his unaffordable and immoral $1.6 trillion in tax cuts, they lay down and died.

One-point-six trillion? they protested. Oh, no. Make it $1.25 trillion. And not a penny more.

The Democrats were sweet-talked, they were bamboozled, and they were afraid. They thought that by accommodating the administration, they were somehow going to be okay. In doing so, they helped the Republican Party pass its far-right-wing agenda.

I thought: Our people have to start acting like Democrats again.

I was far from alone in my thinking.

more...

From You Have the Power: How to Take Back Our Country and Restore Democracy in America. Copyright © 2004 by Howard Dean. Published by Simon & Schuster

The Baghdad hospitals are filled with children. Don't go to antiwar.com this morning... your heart won't be able to stand it...

The 'White Man' is still doing it... killing, killing and killing. "Manifest Destiny" never went away... we ask ourselves how so many Americans could support aWol and the war in Iraq. I've come to the conclusion it's the same reason the early settlers screamed for the destruction of the Native Americans... security and safety... The New World offered a bounty of resources and the settlers meant to have them... those 'barbarians' stood between them and their families' safety and resources... or so their fear told them. Europe endured conquests of neighboring peoples for eons, but the conquerors did not destroy the natives, they settled down with them, created families and homes with them.

I read about the 'enduring' military bases over a year ago... along with the info on the bases US has created at Russia's back door, amid protests from Russia. This administration is intent on war, for them it is the only game in town, and they will do anything to hang on to it between now and Nov. 2nd.

Meanwhile, in order to assure aWol's success at the polls more and more Iraqis will die as the US military provides them and their cities with liberation, democracy. And as it was during the invasion in March 2003 and during the 12 years of sanctions, it will be the children who suffer (50% of the Iraqi population is under the age of 15)... they are dying, they are being 'detained', they are in prisons/jails where they are being tortured and raped.

Why is America not upset about this and other atrocities across the planet? Because too many see the defense of their SUVs, their oversized vehicles and the oil tanks... and like the early settlers of this country, they want those pesky people of color, those sand n@$%##$@ gone! Why, they're heathen, don't you know. As soon as we get the ME stabilized, we'll send our Christian missionaries in... 'course stabilization won't be achieved until the oil is all used up... 'cause we need our troops there to protect those oil lines and wells, and if a couple of thousand children (of color) die, thems the breaks.

Not in my name do they conduct this killing...

"There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket."
– General Smedley Butler

The resolution Congress gave dubya stipulates that if he invades Iraq he must return to Congress with proof that WMD existed and that Hussein posed a threat. Neither is true, neither can be proved. So the war is illegal, not simply from an international standpoint, but from a national view. Congress never approved this 'war'. Ergo, Kerry never voted for the 'war'. But dubya doesn't do 'nuance' so the American people are fed that regurgitated pablum. If Kerry tries to explain, he's called a 'flip-flopper.'

Sorry for rant... I am trying to learn detachment this lifetime, but sometimes feel overwhelmed with children dying and our troops dying, and for what? The inability to find an alternative energy source? The greed of the oil barons? Power?

My hope is that Kerry will be elected, that he will bring this unnecessary war and occupation to resolution, quickly. If he doesn't, we must hold his feet to the fire.

From DU:

"Did you know the RNC PAYS Freepers to disrupt boards with spin?

Check out this link and spread the word:

http://www.gopteamleader.com/benefits.asp

In addition to being given a "political edge" over the competition, you earn GOPoints for each Action Item completed. Action Items range from writing a letter to your editor to calling local voters and gauging public opinion. The GOPoints you earn can, in turn, be redeemed for collateral of your choice, ranging from leather PDA covers to folding chairs.

There is no limit to what you can accomplish, or what you can earn."

So, I wonder if this site was being freeped for a pair of folding chairs?

Jo - Thanks for the rant. I agree with every word. This country has amassed - is still amassing - some bad karma. When it comes time to pay the piper - and we will pay the piper - it's not going to be fun.

On a personal note - do you live in Atlanta? Two years ago we retired to southwestern NM after 39 years in Atlanta (actually lived inside the city limits). I miss the shopping, the dogwoods in April and the gentle rains, but sure don't miss the heat, the humidity, the Republicans or the traffic.

M., due to the the sanity and respect that exist on this site, freepers stand out like a sore thumb. Consequently, they are easy to recognize and easier to dismiss and ignore.

Nancy, you are such a trooper. I know that whenever there was anything wrong with my Mom, I hadn't the energy for anything else. So, thank you for taking the time to give us an astro-insight on the upcoming debates. Your imput is valuable to us.

And, most of all, speeding healing to your Mom, and much comfort to you.

About freepers and neocons,did anyone catch the post at DU about a poster on Free Republic who accused Kerry of deliberately causing bush to mess up his tie when the two shook hands?

I kid you not. This dittohead was ranting on and obsessing about dimson's 'crooked', 'messy' tie, saying he/she couldn't focus on what he was saying for zoning on his tie! Unbelievable! This is what these people care about. Thirty-five children blown up in Iraq just a few hours before the debates, billions of dollars blown, people ravaged and these people can only focus on a crooked tie.

http://publish.nyc.indymedia.org/newswire/rate/125456/%3C?php%20echo

Bush Blows it! Exposes Earpiece in Debate

In the middle of an answer last night bush said, "now let me finish" as if someone was interrupting him- yet nobody did- he was talking to the person in his earpiece.

Listen to the mp3 yourself- or watch the video at c-span. did anyone out there record the debate- we've got to get this video clip out there- the president needs an earpiece to make it thru a debate!

I've been thinking for years that we need something major to blow this scam wide open, like bush exposing himself on national tv. Last night bush did just that.

The 'let me finish' quip was clearly bush talking to ( probably Rove) in his earpiece- saying let me finish before you give me the next answer. He blows it 60 sec into his 90 sec reply- so no warning lights had gone off and lehrer had not motioned for him to end as he had plenty of time left.

my guess is that it's an implant, not something stuck in his ear.

shouldn't this be enough to warrant a major investigation of some sort- the 'president' is so incompetent he needs an earpiece to speak in public? It's all a house of cards,,,,

Susan, Georgie's tie looks ok in the photos--maybe the tie was straight and his head was crooked.

Donna, my daughter lives in Midtown neighborhood in Atlanta (probably the 2nd or 3rd most liberal neighborhood in town.) I'll be there tomorrow for a visit.

Nancy, good wishes to your mother, and yeah--what Janet said. You are a trooper.

Judy Gemini,
What you said about backdoors is scarey. It also explains a lot about being blocked from sites or making my liberal comments to them. If you have an Intel chip or clone instead of a MAC then download Linex for an operating system and get Mozilla Firefox for a browser program. Stop using all Microsoft programs and Netscape [which as you know is owned by AOL].
http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/index.html

Donna,

No, I don't live in Atlanta, I live in South Carolina... near the Georgia state line... and yes, it is humid here... I lived in New Mexico for about eighteen months and loved it... thanks for asking... be sure to enjoy the sunsets there. They are fantastic, aren't they!?

Susan,

I think some of the Freepers are so unsettled, really their 'mindset' --- their whole 'house of cards' would come tumbling down if they had to admit even to themselves that their man is vacuous... so they fixate on dumb things like a tie (Kerry has to be the blame right? I mean they don't take responsibility and their leader takes no responsibility... it's always the other person's or the other side's fault... right?) To tell you the truth, the way dubya was pouting and smirking at Kerry, I got the thought while I was watching that he was saying 'next time, I get the red tie!!!

Pat C.,

I'm sure every time aWol speaks before a camera he has an earpiece in... trouble with that is he has a problem focusing... so any commentary coming through the earpiece simply makes it MORE difficult for him... if he were capable of stringing more than five words together to form a sentence, he would have held more press conferences... they are an excellent tool for the incumbent to get his message out without paying for TV ads... but he hasn't used them... why? I think we know the answer to that. Instead, other people go around speaking for him, like Colin Powell is doing now, like the puppet Iraqi PM did here last week (btw, did you guys see the article on dKos about the input the election campaign had in the PM's speeches? imagine that! what a fraud this administration is... their puppet comes here and campaigns for dubya, telling lies about how things are in Iraq...

Earpieces, mouthpieces... nothing is 'real' about these guys... except of course the damage they are doing to the planet... which is why we have to get the fascists out... Go Kerry...!!

White light, purple light to all, especially the children.

Jo, I hear you. There was something Bill Maher said last nite on 'Real Time,' during the round table debate, that we (USA) had more control over Iraq when Saddam was in power.

I can't remember all he said, but think about it; the sanctions, the no fly zones, and whatever else. Now what is there? Chaos and insurgency. We train the Iraqi's and then they go over to the insurgents. Can't blame them. Bogus elections mean you are a democracy? Only in a Puppet Government.

I was thinking about why beheadings have entered the mass popular culture as a symbol, not as a news event. The symbol to me is one of the USA having lost it's collective head, it's ability to reason. We are currently being led by a leader who doesn't think things thru (no nuance.) This country seems to be doing Neptune denial big time.

Just as you see GWB live in his fantasy, you can watch the USA try to follow, media et al. Sadly it seems as if we have to wait until the dream becomes a nightmare, for the people to wake up. I had noted Timothy's comment earlier and I mostly agree. I am thinking though that Kerry has decided he cannot win running against the war at this time. If he gets elected we will see then. To me, he represents reason. I would think with his background in 'Nam, he'd recognize the signs of an unwin-able conflict.

Hello everyone, this was sent to me by a friend in Hawaii, it is making its way around the planet. I beleive it is worthwhile to try, our collective energies can be unstopable! PLease pass this on. Here's to the Light!

DEAR FRIENDS:

With only 35 days before the Presidential election, I feel compelled to share this idea. I am an author, activist, and former science writer. I enjoy the intersection of physics and culture - never more obvious than this fall.

AND WHAT TODAY'S MOST SAGE SCIENTISTS ARE SAYING IS THAT WHEN WE FOCUS ON SOMETHING, WE ATTRACT MORE OF IT. SO WITH ONLY SIX WEEKS LEFT, WE NEED TO FOCUS ON WHAT WE REALLY, REALLY WANT. LET'S JOIN TOGETHER IN THE "60
SECONDS A DAY FOR 6 WEEKS CAMPAIGN."

TO TURN THE TIDE NOW, WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING UNSTOPPABLE. WE NEED A CRITICAL MASS OF US TO STOP RAILING AGAINST WHAT IS AND REACH FOR WHAT WE WANT. WHAT DO WE WANT?

We want John Kerry as our next President. Give up focusing on George Bush. We don't have to agree with him or support him in any fashion. Instead, we have to turn our thoughts now to something greater. We have to do something unstoppable. In the legacy of Einstein and all great thinkers, we have to harness the power of our thoughts to get the outcome we desire in November.

PARTICIPATE IN THE "60 SECONDS A DAY FOR 6 WEEKS CAMPAIGN." IF ONLY 3 PERCENT OF THE U.S. POPULATION TAKES 60 SECONDS TO DO THIS EXERCISE EVERY DAY, WE CAN MAKE A MASSIVE DIFFERENCE.

THIS IS HOW IT WORKS: FOR 60 SECONDS EACH DAY visualize John Kerry elected as our next President of the United States. See the relief, the celebrations, the excitement, and the sense of fulfillment all across America. See yourself rejoicing with people in your home, neighborhood, and workplace. See us all
rejoicing with people all over the world! See John Kerry being sworn into office. Feel the hope, joy, and gratitude. Feel it in your hearts. Believe it is possible. And be sure to vote!

** Now, imagine John Kerry restoring greater wellbeing in America.

** See people streaming back to work.

** See young students getting the support they need.

** Visualize our teachers, police officers, single mothers, the mentally ill, and many others getting the help they deserve.

** See our soldiers coming home to their families.

** Imagine our leaders establishing greater trust and good will, earning the respect of other nations.

** See peace spreading across the world.

** See the Iraq conflict ending.

** Feel how good it will be for the environment to be protected and renewed.

** See hope rising across the world in the hearts and souls of those in need.

** See these pictures in your mind for 60 seconds every day between now and November 2.

** Be grateful that you have the gift of participating in shaping a greater country.

** Be grateful that you care.

Believe that all this is possible, -and more! Please be sure to vote!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PASS THIS ON TO SIX MORE PEOPLE: "60 SECONDS A DAY FOR 6 WEEKS!"

In Peace,

Susan Skog http://www.susanskog.com/bio.html

Susan Skog is a nationally known author, writer, and presenter. Trained as a journalist, she is the author of five books, including Peace in Our Lifetime: Insights from the World's Peacemakers; Radical Acts of Love: How Compassion is Transforming Our World; Depression: What Your Body’s Trying to Tell You; ABCs for Living; and Embracing Our Essence: Spiritual Conversations with Prominent Women. Radical Acts of Love was named one of the must-read books of 2001 by New Age Journal and the Wisdom Channel. It was also a OneSpirit Book Club selection for 2001. Radical Acts of Love features more than 80 examples of compassion in action in medicine, business, education, and elsewhere.

Embracing Our Essence, offers the spiritual

Shade,

Your comments about Kerry --- that's my take on it... he'd get hammered by the Neocons if he said what he really plans to do... and I respect him for not being too detailed, as there's a lot of time between now and January 20th. This misadministration can do and probably will do, a lot of damage between now and then, whether they win or lose. They want chaos in the ME... more opportunity to go on into Iran or Syria...

Juan Cole has an excellent piece on the debate and I'm going to post it in its entirety because there is some info in it I have not heard before. I have a great deal of respect for Juan as he is an authority on his subject and a scholar, so he looks for primary sources for his material. He hasn't called it wrong that I'm aware of since I started reading him over a year ago. In fact, I am going to email the Kerry campaign with the suggestion that they consult with Juan and get his view on the situation in Iraq. There are only two other people, imho, who have as much expertise on the subject: Robert Fisk and John Pilger, both independent journalists who speak and write the truth, a very rare species in these times.

-----------

Friday, October 01, 2004
Debate and Chalabi

I wonder if more could not have been made about Bush's constant zigzags on Iraq policy. First he was going to send Jay Garner. Then he suddenly switched off and sent Paul Bremer. First Bremer was going to be proconsul for years. Then he suddenly was going to hand off power to a new government elected through caucases in May 2004. Then Sistani asked for open and free elections, and they were postponed until January 2005 and power was handed to an appointed caretaker government.

Moreover, some of this zigzagging reflected very poorly on Bush's judgment. I have it from insiders that in April, 2003, Jay Garner let it slip to some of his staff that his charge was to turn Iraq over to Ahmad Chalabi within six months. The staffers were shocked and some contacted the State Department to see if this was known there. It was not. So they blew the whistle on Bush with Colin Powell. I was told that Powell then made a coalition with Tony Blair and that the two of them went to Bush and got him to change his mind.

The plan to put Chalabi in charge of Iraq was frankly idiotic. Chalabi had no grass roots. He was the one who had the bright idea to throw thousands of ex-Baathists into unemployment (which encouraged them to join the guerrilla resistance). It later came out that some of the Neoconservatives in the Pentagon had let it slip to him that the US had broken the Iranian diplomatic codes. Chalabi is chummy with Tehran and let his friends among the Ayatollahs know this tidbit. As a result, the US can no longer closely track the Iranian nuclear program.

This is the man to whom Bush-- and I underline Bush-- was planning originally just to hand Iraq over. An Iranian asset. This was why, as Kerry noted on Thursday night, Bush had done no real planning for the period after the war. He thought he had everything sewn up because Chalabi would handle it.

You judge a president in part by the people he chooses for the tasks before him. Bush has consistently chosen very poorly. In the first campaign, he sometimes came close to admitting that he wasn't knowledgeable or competent, but said he would surround himself by capable people.

The problem is that if you begin by not being knowledgeable, you surround yourself with people like Ahmad Chalabi.

posted by Juan @ 10/1/2004 09:36:35 AM
http://juancole.com

Thanks for the FireFox link. My husband uses it and recommends it as well. I just installed it and I am quite happy with the results. Much appreciated, since like Jo I often can't post to some sites :)

Morgana,

Thanks for the comment on Foxfire... I'll check into it... I have a new computer, just got it set up... and Thursday night I was able to vote on the CNN poll on the debate... I'll send all my emails complaining of their bias to CNN on the old one, and vote on the new one!!

Lawrie-Astro Am,

Thanks so much for the post on visualization... I will add it to my daily list of ones I am already doing... in my old age I have concluded that this is probably the most effective thing we can do... namaste

Jo,
My Mother used to tell me that we 'create our own reality'. Another wise man said, 'act as if'.
Last night in my minds eye I watched the swearing in of John Kerry with Teresa at his side in the crisp cold morning sunlight. I saw too, John Edwards with Elizabeth taking his oath of office.
It is something we must do.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections2004/comment/story/0,14259,1318185,00.html

Retreat into a substitute reality

By touching on Bush's ambivalent relations with his father, Kerry exposed his delusions about Iraq

Don't It Make a Red State Blue
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/100304Y.shtml

A Reporter's E-Mail from Baghdad to Friends
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/100304X.shtml

FOX Chief Political Correspondent Who Interviewed Bush in 2000 and Bragged that His Wife was Volunteering for George, Now -- in 2004 -- Made Up RNC Message Point Quotes That John Kerry Never Said
http://www.buzzflash.com/buzzscripts/buzz.dll/content

Jo, I think he used the ear piece in the last campaign as well. It's standard operating proceedure.

Like Nancy, I like to visualize Kerry signing executive orders undoing all the damage that has been done in the last four years.

It is absolutely necessary that John Kerry wins this election. He can't do anything about this war until he is inaugurated. I think Kerry has been carrying an enormous burden of guilt and sorrow over what he did in Viet Nam.
This is his chance of a lifetime...to redeem himself and end this war.

He won't end the war. The war is started by Bush, and Kerry will not walk out. He will get others to help win the war, and take the pressure off of the American people.

Pat C,

I didn't mean to say he would walk out. He has too much of a Saturnine sense of responsibility to do that.

Let me paraphrase:

I feel as though he has a great personal stake in bringing the situation to a good conclusion.

What the H*** is Drudge up to? This is a very suggestive headline he has up

NYT KERRY HEALTH: X-RAYS SHOW METAL SHRAPNEL FROM WAR; CANCER-FREE; HIV-... DEVELOPING...

I read the NYT article. The only mention of HIV is in the very last line on page 4 of the posted article. He tested negative. The mindless zombies that believe everything that this jerk posts may or may not read the entire article. I don't understand why these "compassionate" conservatives have to try to be so misleading. I call it lying. It burns me.

Teresa,

Isn't this normal in politics?

Yeah I know it's normal in U.S. politics but it shouldn't be. It's like the phony article on Fox. They leave it that way just long enough for thousands of people to see it and 90% of them are probably going to keep repeating the lie even though the truth follows. A certain segment of our population seems not to want to hear the truth. They just want what they already believe confirmed. How do these people sleep at night?

"What is Sludge up to?" The usual, except that there is now a sense of desperation amongst the faithful.

Go check out Mr. "Narrow and Shallow" on MarketWeek over at StarIQ. Very interesting. He seems to be beginning to wiggle, to try and adjust to objective reality. Fun to watch.

Truth can only emerge if the lies are also here.

Shy,

I think there is always desperation amongst the falsely faithful... as though their cover is about to be blown.

Sleep is powerful.

Drudge is a GOP 'mouthpiece' --- I don't even read it, my bp can't take it... I learned at the run up to the invasion of Iraq that US mainstream media had sold out, become part of the corpo-fascio US... some of them may be awakening to the fact that this misadministration is on its way out... NYTimes has a piece that's being discussed at Kos now:

NY Times Says Cheney and Rice Knowingly Misled Us About Iraq's Nuclear Capability
by DemFromCT
Sat Oct 2nd, 2004 at 19:05:43 GMT

I don't particularly care for using 'lying' as an accusation without proof. So here's the proof
[http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/03/international/middleeast/03tube.html?oref=login&oref=login&hp=&oref=login&pagewanted=print&position=]:

In 2002, at a crucial juncture on the path to war, senior members of the Bush administration gave a series of speeches and interviews in which they asserted that Saddam Hussein was rebuilding his nuclear weapons program. In a speech to veterans that August, Vice President Dick Cheney said Mr. Hussein could have an atomic bomb "fairly soon." President Bush, addressing the United Nations the next month, said there was "little doubt" about Mr. Hussein's appetite for nuclear arms.
The United States intelligence community had not yet concluded that Iraq was rebuilding its nuclear weapons program. But as the vice president told a group of Wyoming Republicans that September, the United States had "irrefutable evidence" - thousands of tubes made of high-strength aluminum, tubes that the Bush administration said were destined for clandestine Iraqi uranium centrifuges, before some were seized at the behest of the United States.

The tubes quickly became a critical exhibit in the administration's brief against Iraq. As the only physical evidence the United States of Mr. Hussein's revived nuclear ambitions, they gave credibility to the apocalyptic imagery invoked by President Bush and his advisers. The tubes were "only really suited for nuclear weapons programs," Condoleezza Rice, the president's national security adviser, asserted on CNN on Sept. 8, 2002. "We don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud."

But before Ms. Rice made those remarks, she was aware that the government's foremost nuclear experts had concluded that the tubes were most likely not for nuclear weapons at all, an examination by The New York Times has found. As early as 2001, her staff had been told that these experts, at the Energy Department, believed the tubes were probably intended for small artillery rockets, according to four officials at the Central Intelligence Agency and a senior administration official, all of whom spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitive nature of the information.

"She was aware of the differences of opinion," the senior administration official said in an interview authorized by the White House. "She was also aware that at the highest level of the intelligence community, there was great confidence that these tubes were for centrifuges."

Ms. Rice's alarming description on CNN was in keeping with the Bush administration's overall treatment of the tubes. Senior administration officials repeatedly failed to fully disclose the contrary views of America's leading nuclear scientists, The Times found. They sometimes overstated even the most dire intelligence assessments of the tubes, yet minimized or rejected the strong doubts of their own experts. They worried privately that the nuclear case was weak, but expressed sober certitude in public."

[DemFromCt]:

I wonder if Mr. Edwards will ask Mr. Cheney on Tuesday when they get together for a televised visit why the VP deliberately misled the Amercian people on an issue of war and peace? I'm thinking there's a few of us here in the country that would like to know the answer to that question.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/10/2/15543/0416

My point in post above is the NYTimes is saying Rice and Cheney "knowingly misled" [translate: lied] about reasons for invading Iraq. Other mainstream papers should be picking this up soon. Just in time for Tuesday night's debate... another email to Kerry campaign... going, going, gone...

tJupiter is bringing justice... the lineup in Libra is going to be awesome! Just as our wonderful astrologers predicted... 'help is on the way' - 'hope is on the way'... namaste

Yessum, Mz. Jo. We do want to know why they lied and lied to get the US into Vietn--I mean, Iraq. I think the answer is very much bound-up in the little hush-hush energy policy confab the so-called Veep had early on. You know, the one where they distributed maps showing Iraq's oil fields. Noam, I surely wouldn't want Mr. Edwards to fail to assert those two issues Tuesday evening during his little meet-up with Snarly.

Jupiter... ruling that sticky Pluto in Sagittarius dilemma we're in... I'm betting on justice coming in a big way.

I like the way Kerry says you can be "certain and wrong". I think that ends the flip-flop nonsense.

I think Kerry dealt the biggest blow when he went directly to Baby B's Saturn return and compared him unfavorably to his father... that's when the baby flipped, and then flopped.

Are you sure you guys haven't been advising the mighty K?

Morgana,
Sorry to be in a rush and not put my name on the note about Foxfire and Linex being more secure software. I got that info from my Wiz of a husband (double Capricorn) who has been studying about security. He's a social psychologist whose idea of light reading is "Metatheory in Social Science", Wired and Technology Zines -- you get the picture. Anyhow, what I noticed right away is that Foxfire is much faster then MIExplorer. Not bad for a free download!

Jill

http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=3570432

Greenpeace Lies in Wait for 'Nuclear Transport Ships'

Laurie: What a delightful post. So John Kerry's aura is deep purple. The color of spirituality. How fascinating. Is this really so -- did someone really see it? I will read about the characteristics in my Aura Book when I get home. It is such a positive thing to say when I am seeing still to much inconsistency from many liberals/progressives and am so distrubed by the critizism being made toward him and how he could have done things better. He was perfect Thursday evening. I found his debate responses concise and clear. He can't swing too low for fear of alienating the swing voters sensibilities.

Ol' Porter is wasting no time:

"Goss announced Thursday that Michael Kostiw will replace A.B. "Buzzy" Krongard as the agency's executive director. Kostiw, a former vice president at ChevronTexaco, previously served in the CIA for roughly a decade and ran unsuccessfully for Congress in 1986." (picked up from truthout.com)

Why don't they just call it the Corporate Intelligence Agency? Seems that's about all it is. They aren't focused on keeping us or the US secure. No sir, they are trying to secure oil for all the big-moneyed people who own it, trade in it, invest in it and send our children here, there and yon to die for it.

Raj: Please try to keep in touch from Asia if you can. Hope you are still here to get this message.

http://tinyurl.com/6e87p

Rove has taken over forign policy.

Hoo-boy! In googling up info on Michael Kostiw, you won't believe what I ran across. Just look at this group of people (including the BFEE consiglieri himself) who were sent to Mexico in June 2000 to see about their elections. Boy, I'll bet they did see about those elections. Only a handful of them appear to be the kind of people you'd want to send anywhere to see about elections, unless of course you had an ulterior motive.

http://www.iri.org/pub.asp?id=7676767721

Wow! That's a jewel!

Sure is. Needs to be sent to DU.

I can't remember where I picked this up, perhaps here, posted by wv? Anyhow, although depressing, it lets you know what we are up against. The Goss stuff is no surprise. They want to keep the CIA in their pocket.

BUSH FOR DUMMIES A Handy History Study Guide

http://www.winterboy.com/dejavu.html

http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0409c.asp

Saddam as the Twentieth Hijacker
by James Bovard, October 1, 2004

The 9/11 commission reported in June that there was no “collaborative relationship” between Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda, and thus that Bush’s Enemy No. 1 had no role in the 9/11 attacks. Far from finding any partnership between the two, the report noted that bin Laden “at one time sponsored anti-Saddam Islamists in Iraqi Kurdistan.” This report effectively nuked a key justification for the U.S. invasion of Iraq.

President Bush responded to the revelation by asserting, “The reason I keep insisting that there was a relationship between Iraq and Saddam and al-Qaeda is because there was a relationship between Iraq and al-Qaeda.” But the evidence showed that though al-Qaeda had repeatedly approached Saddam’s regime about working together, the Iraqi government had effectively rebuffed their proposals.

The Bush administration cannot brush aside the 9/11 commission’s report. A commission whose chairman was appointed by Bush and whose ground rules were dictated in large part by the White House has found that the Bush administration’s claim regarding weapons of mass destruction in Iraq was baseless. And after more than 900 American soldiers have died in Iraq, this cannot qualify as a harmless error.

More...

Shylurker,

Is the IRI, "International Republican Institute"?
Believe so. Google that up for some eyeopeners...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=International+Republican+Institute&btnG=Search

"Elsewhere, the New York Times has reported on several occasions of meetings stretching back to last summer between U.S. officials and Venezuelan military members involved in the coup, and American financial support for groups associated with the coup -- channeled through the National Endowment for Democracy, a notorious CIA front associated with any number of similar attempts to overthrow democratically elected Third World governments over past decades. In this case, over the last year the NED quadrupled its "aid" to Venezuela, giving nearly a million dollars to groups such as the National Democratic Institute for International Affairs, the International Republican Institute (IRI), and the Confederation of Venezuelan Workers -- the Venezuelan labor union key in the fateful anti-Chavez demonstrations that triggered the coup. The IRI is said to have particularly close ties to the Bush Administration; Lorne Craner, Bush's Assistant Secretary of State for Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor, is a former IRI president..."
http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?ItemID=13236

This is a good link too... 'follow the money'
http://www.practicalradical.com/followthemoney.html

International Republican Institute

Loosely affiliated with the Republican Party, the International Republican Insitute (IRI) works closely with the the National Endowment for Democracy and United States foreign policy instruments, including the U.S. State Department and U.S. Agency for International Development, to support economic and political development programs around the world. The organization is almost exclusively funded by the U.S. government and related agencies.

IRI's stated mission is to "support the growth of political and economic freedom, good governance and human rights around the world by educating people, parties and governments on the values and practices of democracy." However, it has also been linked to efforts to foment a violent military coup in Haiti. Max Blumenthal reports that Stanley Lucas is the program officer for the I.R.I.'s Haiti program. [1]

While based in Washington, D.C., IRI maintains offices around the world, including in Africa (Abuja, Luanda and Nairobi), Asia (Dili, Jakarta, Phnom Phen and Ulaanbaatar), Latin America (Caracas, Guatamela City and Lima), Central and Eastern Europe (Belgrade, Bratislava, Bucharest, Istanbul, Skopje, Sofia, Tirana and Zagreb) and the former Soviet Union (Almaty, Baku, Belarus, Kyiv, Moscow, Tashkent and Tblisi).

IRI's board of directors includes major Republican foreign policy voices, and other prominent Republicans.

http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=International_Republican_Institute

Is James Baker more than the godfather's legal beagle? Is James Baker the 'godfather'? Enquiring minds want to know...

Do we have a chart on him?

Latest Newsweek poll: Kerry/Edwards 49%, Bush/Cheney 46% - first time Kerry has been ahead in about 5 weeks-

EXCELLENT Jo!

Lawrence, thank you! Yessss.

That's high praise from the master, Pat C., but Shylurker deserves the credit... she provided the link and I simply 'sniffed' up some more 'stuff'... I'm good at finding dirt, been cleaning house like a clorax queen for ten days now... I can spot a dust bunny at 30 paces... so checking out Jim Baker is a piece of cake... that Dude is covered with slime... back to the closets now...

Miz Tery, you be sure DU gets to work on this Jim Baker thing... I'm not technically talented enough to navigate the threads over there... Shylurker has tried without success to hold my hand and lead me there step-by-step, but alas, I never find the comments I'm searching for...

OK. I am now utterly convinced that Kerry is - no, HAS already won this election. What would be interesting now would be to look at the transits closely between Nov. 2 and Jan. 20 2005 to predict what the desperate losers may try to do as lame ducks. I hate to imagine, but it would be an interesting thing to look at.

Loved the 60 second visualization; sent it far and wide. It makes you feel so good!!

Teresa B - I agree, all Kerry has to do is mention Chimp's father and he goes haywire; starts blurting. Good psychological tactic, if one puts aside lurking guilt feelings at really going for someone's sore spot. I guess it aleviates the guilt to remember how much pain this little man has caused..

Baker, James Addison III (b. 1930) -- also known as James A. Baker III -- Born in Houston, Harris County, Tex., April 28, 1930. Republican. Candidate for Texas state attorney general, 1978; U.S. Secretary of the Treasury, 1985-88; delegate to Republican National Convention from Texas, 1988; U.S. Secretary of State, 1989-92. Member, Council on Foreign Relations. Received the Presidential Medal of Freedom in 1991. Still living as of 2003.

above taken from:

http://politicalgraveyard.com/bio/baker5.html

Best I could do.

Of course, 1) I am NO astrologer and 2) having a birthtime is very critical (particularly when you look at JAB's (JAB, that's kind of appropriate, don't you think?) Tau stellium, etc.). What I'm curious about right off is the T-square between 17 deg Can Pluto and 12 deg Cap Tau, with Uranus at 13 deg Ari. Wasn't he stationed in the WH around the time that Saturn was rounding the bend and headed toward Smirky's & USA's suns? Also, just wonder if he'll be called into service later next year when Saturn enters Leo and begins squaring those Tau planets. Hmmmm.

I can't keep up with all you folks--so many good links, many of which I have forwarded on.

Teresa b, yep I think Kerry maybe can steer the burning wreck that is Iraq toward some water and away from the ammo dump (I hope).

Jo, love your posts. You've cleaned all your closets? Remember Irma Bombeck? She would tell you that if you now just go in for a dental checkup you will be eligible for sainthood. ;-)

About 6:25 PM EDT, re Faluga, CNN voiceover is saying "Intelligence indicates quote that no innocent civilians were in the house..." while the screen is showing wounded babies and toddlers in bandages. (Deep deep sigh.)

just check this out. it's a new commercial for battleground states. it will blow your mind!!! for those of who remember, it's this campaign's equivalent of the 'mushroom cloud' (little girl w/daisies) commercial that johnson ran against barry goldwater.

http://realvoices.org/rv/index.html

share this all around. it is a real piece of art.

Mike, thanks for the link... you're right.

Barbara, the news just gets worse and worse, doesn't it...

as for sainthood, I do have a dental appointment week after next! But, I'm nowhere near being a saint... I loved Erma... remember her "if life is just a bowl of cherries, why am I down here in the pits?" when we relocated my Dad this July from his nest of 19 years, I was overwhelmed! I told myself to get busy... quit looking at my Dad's stuff and thinking, 'you need to let go... these 'tools' you'll never use again (he loves woodwork)... I have a houseful of 'stuff I need to let go of' --- both my inner and outer houses. Do you have any Gemini friends, family members? If you do, you'll understand that they leave a paper trail everywhere --- stacks of papers, letters and the books! Open ones in every room in the house, on the stairs... stacks of papers... letters...Making the 3rd carload to the library tomorrow afternoon... I guess it's not enough for Geminis to talk alot... they have to 'write stuff down' so they won't forget... 'course they do forget, and it's a good thing too... And my stellium in Cancer says 'hold on, you'll need that'... So, we're working on detachment... letting go... sainthood? nope, no where near...

But I have to finish up by Tuesday, then work at local Dem hdqtrs., 'cause there's the other houses to clean by Nov. 2nd (I've got Virgo rising): the House of Reps, the Senate, the state houses, and of course the White House ('course that will take fumigating which I'm sure Teresa Heinz Kerry can handle very well)... we're on a roll... planets are lining up in Libra, they're surrounding my nMoon now... and y'all know Venus... she likes things 'clean'... no ugliness... nope, just clean and pretty...

Don't forget to visualize President Kerry in light, lots --- use one from this board... Pat C. had a beautiful one of threads coming from Kerry... Morgana has one upthread... and there are many others... or make up your own. We're going to win, y'all... just 'own' it... say it... think it... namaste

Beverly . . . It was me who saw Kerry's aura and I can't see it on TV so I paid special attention to it in life. We were only 10 feet away from Kerry and I saw a color around him (the lighting was especially good for seeing the aura!) and it was a color of purple between dark and medium. It was quite beautiful.

At the point of seeing his aura, I fell quite deeply in love with our next president . . . . he is kind and wise and cares deeply. I must tell you I am a Deaniac and did not like Kerry for the longest time, but he has won my favor. He has in him the opportunity to become a very very popular and sucessful president. I actually see 2 terms for him, that is, if this election is not stolen.

I took a few courses in seeing auras back 30 years ago and as recently as 2001. I have become pretty good at it.

Vanity Fair Investigative Piece

Many of you will have heard of and read the lengthy October 2004 Vanity Fair article by David Margolick et al. on the 2000 election litigation, with a focus on never-before-reported details about what happened inside the Supreme Court. The piece has received a great deal of attention inside the Court because, as the article details, "[a] surprising number of [law] clerks [from that term] talked to Vanity Fair." Tony Mauro did a short piece on the article (subscription required), but given the new details the article contains, it has received surprisingly little press attention otherwise. Vanity Fair does not have a web-site, but we're grateful to have received permission to post the piece itself, as it appears in the magazine. So here you are, in two pieces:

http://www.goldsteinhowe.com/blog/files/VFPart1.pdf

http://www.goldsteinhowe.com/blog/files/VFPart2.pdf

The Nader threat seems to have disappeared from news and blogs alike lately, but he is on the ballot in 30 states.

Perhaps everyone should send him the following email:

"If you leave the race now, you will be respected and remembered.
If you stay in and Kerry wins, you will be resented and forgotten.
If you stay in and Bush wins, you will be remembered and resented.

For all time.

It's your legacy. Choose wisely."

Any computer experts out there who can tell me how to open the VF files??? It opens but at the bottom of the screen - I can see maybe two inches but can't figure out how to move it so I can see the whole thing. Tried to open it in Word but it said no. HELP.

First off, Donna, do you have the adobe software?

Laurie, that is wonderful stuff about Kerry's aura. Have you seen any of the other candidates, etc. in person?

I thought you guys would like to see this....also, just want to say....we HAVE to keep Kerry/Edwards and ALL their staff in that light. It is imperitive....
Laurie...thanks for that nice aura reading...I saw Clinton's...it was gold.

from Louise Huebner, astrologer...she said for me to distribute this...I am only doing the Libra/Taurus one because it works with the Venus

Space Weather News for Oct. 2, 2004
http://spaceweather.com

VENUS AND REGULUS: Prepare to wake up early: Just before sunrise on
Sunday, Oct. 3rd, the planet Venus and the bright star Regulus will be
beautifully close together in the eastern sky--only 1/5 of one degree
apart. It's a real treat for early risers.

Dear Blind Copy Bunch:

This alert from NASA has multiple meanings for those who are into Astrology, and of course I seem to be, so I wanted to pass it along to you special people.

The influences from these two celestial bodies will last a couple of weeks. It's a fast flowing happening. Don't miss out on the opportunities.

If you are born under a sign ruled by Venus (Taurus or Libra) take heart.

For the two signs: You are under a fantastic influence for gain. Get ready for unusual improvements. Hang out with your own kind and attract even more benefits. Beauty, Love, Rewards are on the way. You will be looking good. It's a winning phase. Others will recognize your worth. You are on a spiritual stage in a Cosmic theater. Please put on a good performance. The world is looking at you. 

Especially for Taurus: The foundation of your life is shaping up. The accent is on family and home issues. Good solid stuff.

Especially for Libra: Image sparkles. 

I can email the whole thing to whomever wants it...all 12 signs. I like that if my dad had not died on 9/11/1960, he would have been 97 years old on Oct 3.

Nancy...My mom (who is still alive at 95) broke her hip on Labor Day of 1988. She kept on going until June 22, when pneumonia put her into a hospital and then, exhausted, I had to put her into a nursing home (both her brother and sister died 6 months earlier). She is better than ever, and looking good and really well taken care of. But in a wheel chair now. The night she went into the hospital, I dreamed of going into a building where a party was going on, lots of laughter and happy vibes. The next day, the Kaiser social worker sent me to the convalescent hospital to check it out. When I walked into the entrance, I heard the laughter. I think my guides were clueing me in....and so I hope your Mom is also doing well, too, and I wish you all happy parties and lots of laughter.)

And thanks for the FoxFire browser info from Anonymous poster!

I would also counsel everyone that perhaps putting your money and bank accounts into a local credit union that serves your community will take some of the money away from the big boys. I did it two years ago....what my friend told me about Gates / backdoor into EVERY program written scared me. Then I was given that advice from someone else (extremely knowledgeable about all of this) and I did it.

And finally, to the Clorox Queen Jo....hey, you've been paying my way for the last 10 years! I've worked on every Clorox commercial since I started doing storyboards until 2 years ago. They changed management....so that is why I sit and write on this board. I have no more work!

judiwood@rcn.com

Judi, want me to boycott Clorax? If I didn't buy their product, they'd be in the ... no, you can't use it there!

Seriously, something good will come your way soon... Geminis are never out of work for long... sometimes they have two jobs at once! namaste

Anonymous, and Laurie I think? Sorry...so many posts, more than one person mentioned it.... Foxfire looks great, I am going to send it to everyone I know....most of whom can use it, even the ones on Macs, as they have the newer operating system. I am still using 9.2.2, so its not supported. but I am grateful for the link...

Thanks Jo....well, since Bush has been in, I've had a total slow down. This happened to me also in 1990....I was a men's fashion illustrator then. Didn't work for 2.5 years. Lost my house. Won't happen this time, as I don't have one to lose! But this is taking stubborn me to different places, and as Martha says, it's a good thing.

Jo...you described my studio in the post on Gemini's and paper piles. Weird thing is, I can always find everything I need...the problem comes if I clean it up. Lost after that!

Jill G. thanks again for the Firefox link much appreciated. I've been crusing the net with it today and with the exception of some java issues with plugins I'm a happy camper.

Well, I am accessing this from the Opera browser....it is weird and different, but I like it. I've had the browser for a while...but it doesn't support the pop up page which I sometimes use here. So what....no pop up ads anyway....this is Opera for Mac...and free.

Barbara, no I have never before witnessed the aura of a politician . . .

Purple indicates spiritual thoughts. Purple only appears as flames and flashes, since truly spiritual thoughts only come as flashes and flames of consciousness.

I can attribute this to Kerry, even if it changes in the next few weeks . . .

Well, just a little sidenote. After all that astro information on black holes, I looked at my grandson's chart and noticed that he has Pluto 19 Sagittarius. Right on that nasty black hole Sally spoke of. I can't help thinking that he will be soldier age in 18 years. And having to deal with all the stuff being hatched right now!

Lots of blue light, lots of blue light....

Okay gang, I'm totally out of the loop. What is this FoxFire link. I tried scrolling up and down, and I saw nothing. Help.

Think many of you will be cheered by the terrific article by Guy Molyneux at American Prospect Online.

http://www.prospect.org/web/

According to it Kerry is in an excellent position even before the last debate.

Ohhhh, FRG... thanks for the link... the media has failed to mention the importance of an incumbent being at 50% or better, and I had forgotten, that... as they intended, I am sure!

You're correct... it is indeed a well crafted article and explains the process so well... and makes me feel "cheered" --- namaste

Janet, a better browser big brother doesn't have hooks in.

http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/

Janet,
Here is the first comment:

Judy Gemini,
What you said about backdoors is scarey. It also explains a lot about being blocked from sites or making my liberal comments to them. If you have an Intel chip or clone instead of a MAC then download Linex for an operating system and get Mozilla Firefox for a browser program. Stop using all Microsoft programs and Netscape [which as you know is owned by AOL].
http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/index.html

Posted by: on October 2, 2004 05:33 PM

FYI, re James Baker III

After the 1963 merger of Zapata and Penn Oil, Baker & Botts becomes the chief legal firm to the growing oil conglomerate. James Baker III is the son of the founder, and is legal counsel to George H.W. Bush through a subsidiary of Baker & Botts- due to strict rules about nepotism at his father’s company.
[NOTE: James Baker III will serve long and loyally beside Ford, Reagan and the Bushes; will later hold a position with the Carlyle Group; will be one of the first public voices calling for war hours after 9/11- war which will bolster the value of Carlyle investments; will head George W's legal dream team during the 2000 recount scandal; and will be appointed Bush's personal envoy to Iraq after the 2003 US invasion.]

http://www.winterboy.com/dejavu9.html

bushies summed up in one 'toon. http://www.msnbc.com/comics/editorial_content.asp?sFile=jd040924

I am so proud...my nonpolitical sister and brother-in-law registered to vote for the very first time and they plan on voting for Kerry!!! It's especially pleasing since I'm in a so-called swing state.

JoannaOregon,
That cartoon is really mean. Has MSNBC started revolting against it's Repug masters; I can't believe they printed it?

Janet, Judi Gemini
It was me that put forth the info about the Mozilla/Foxfire site. My husband said those "in the know" security-wise use Foxfire. [He had read about the backdoor problem months ago.]
Under "File" is "Import" and you can transfer all your bookmarks from your other browsers.

***attn. FL AWers. here is the new Jebbie ballot:

http://wearabledissent.com/101/floridaballot.html

Judi Gemini,
Your grandson must be a baby still, yes? Did you mention his birth here before? Well congrats, late. Hope the baby lives nearby and you get to cuddle with him as often as you want.

I hate Pluto in Sag, it's been crummy. It's been opposing my natal Gemini Mercury [foggy mindedness] and Gemini Mars [lethargy] for an eon.

I finally sent off for my copy of Alex Miller-Mignon's Blackhole Book and can't look it up yet, maybe Sally can give you some ideas. I'd be interested in what he says about the combination.

Jill

Another Gemini ( ASC.) awash in paperwork: all the political articles printed out to pass on to friends, has overtaxed the collection this past year: & the usual reference pix for artwork as well!
Sorting thru slides for my Adult Ed. painting class to paint, I gleefully threw away the slides of that unattractive woman, who backed out of a portrait commission 11 years ago!
In the past 13 years, since I had to sell my well organized house in NJ, where ( & WHEN) I earned enough money to support the time to sort through reference at the end of every job; I have had to leave this too small, no shelves no closets house; 3 times to find work elsewhere, to support myself! What a mess................
Hang in Judi........your work is so good! Something will come along.
I just picked up a sign job at the Farmers Market yesterday. While I don't love doing signs,at least this job is for a goats milk cheese farm & a cranberry producer, so I can get creative with the images!
Yes Kerry will win & he & Teresa will promote the arts once again!!!! Visualize no less than that!
Pat QOP

I have a Macintosh, with Microsoft Internet, do I not worry about the "back door" problem??? I did have a LOT of TROUBLE trying to do the polls the other night! And since I sent a lot of really critical e-mails to CNN last winter, I get the network error thing when I access their website, but then I can get through & look at it. Especially the Lou Dobbs show which I have bokmarked.

Morgana, Jo, and JillG, thanks so much.

Friedman is back with a vengance...

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/03/opinion/03friedman.html?oref=login&pagewanted=print&position=

Well, WV,

Friedman is singing the same chorus, different verse... he STILL thinks invading Iraq was the right thing to do (and apparently taking time off at a critical juncture to 'write a book' was the right thing to do!)... only this verse says Iraq is a mess. Duh!!! He needed to come away from his typewriter to tell us that! He's the one with his head in a hole in the ground... still thinks aWol is capable of getting us out of this mess... heck truth is, the Neocons (and dubya is a charter member of the group) think Iraq is 'just right' -- a chaotic mess, and they're stirring the pot to create an unstable ME... the better to steal the oil my dears... our troops are not being sent to bring democracy to the Arabs (heck, we can't export a commodity we don't have!)... they are going to guard the oil fields... and provide security and backup for Sharon... the Likuds...

Tom Friedman should have listened to his wife in 2003... she told him the invasion was wrong... bet that's a fun household!

Sound familiar?

Between 1973 and 1989, a government team of Chilean economists known as 'The Chilean Boys,' trained at the University of Chicago, decentralize the Chilean state. Their economic program- experimental, and based on the new and untested freemarket economic theories of Milton Friedman- includes privatizing welfare and social programs, deregulating the market, liberalizing trade, rolling back trade unions, and rewriting Chile’s constitution and laws. The results are exactly what liberals had predicted: Chile’s economy becomes more unstable than any other in Latin America.

This is their agenda.

[NOTE: Leo Strauss is a popular figure among the late 20th-Century neo-conservatives. --snip

Strauss teaches that deception is the norm in political life. Secrecy is paramount, especially when it comes to matters of foreign policy. Strauss believes that societies should be hierarchical- divided between an elite who should and must lead, and the masses who should follow. Strauss believes that "those who are fit to rule are those who realize there is no morality and that there is only one natural right- the right of the superior to rule over the inferior."
This dichotomy requires "perpetual deception" between the rulers and the ruled, says Strauss, and "The people are told what they need to know and no more." While the elite few are capable of absorbing the absence of any moral truth, Strauss thought, the masses could not cope. If exposed to the absence of absolute truth, they would quickly fall into nihilism or anarchy.
Strauss has a "huge contempt" for secular democracy. Because Strauss views religion as absolutely essential in imposing moral law on the masses (who would otherwise be out of control), 20th century neoconservatives have long argued for religion's greater role in the public sphere, even suggesting that the Founding Fathers of the American Republic made a major mistake by insisting on the separation of church and state.
At the same time, Strauss stresses that religion is for the masses alone; the rulers need not be bound by it. Indeed, it would be absurd if they were, since the truths proclaimed by religion are "a pious fraud." As Ronald Bailey, science correspondent for Reason magazine points out, "Many neoconservatives are pro-religion even though they themselves may not be believers." Secular society in their view is the worst possible thing because it leads to individualism, liberalism, and relativism, precisely those traits that may promote dissent which, in turn, could dangerously weaken society's ability to 'cope with external threats.'
Strauss believes that the inherently aggressive nature of human beings can only be restrained by a powerful nationalistic state. "Because mankind is intrinsically wicked, he has to be governed," he writes. "Such governance can only be established, however, when men are united- and they can only be united against other people."
Not surprisingly, Strauss' attitude toward foreign policy is distinctly Machiavellian. Since political order can be stable only if it is united by an external threat, he maintains, then if no external threat exists one has to be manufactured.
Perpetual war, not perpetual peace, is what Straussians believe in. The idea easily translates into an "aggressive, belligerent foreign policy," of the kind that has been advocated by neocon groups like PNAC and AEI, not to mention Wolfowitz and other 20th century administration hawks who have called for a world order dominated by US military power. Strauss' neoconservative students see foreign policy as a means to fulfill a "national destiny" (as Irving Kristol defined it as early as 1983).

http://www.winterboy.com/dejavu4.html

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGB6EG35VZD.html

Hazard Level Upped at Mount St. Helens; Hundreds Evacuated

Hee-hee.
From today's WAPO, by Walter Pincus:

"Michael Kostiw, chosen by CIA Director Porter Goss to be the agency's new executive director, resigned under pressure from the CIA more than 20 years ago after being picked up for shoplifting, according to past and current agency officials."

Not only is this guy soaked with oil, but he's a common thief, too. Just what we need to protect us against terra-ists.

Oh man shylurker! If it comes from Pinkus, it's a real problem for the neocons.

Volcanoes, hurricanes out the whazoo. Even Mexico's volcano is acting up. Mother Nature is trying her best to tell us something.

I just read this article and although it may have been posted here before I thought it important especially since she wrote it (I think) before the debate.

Bush Blindsided by Bad Planets

http://www.aquilaink.com/secretdiary115.html

urynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/special_packages/election2004/9812459.htm
Pelosi says GOP acted illegally in Texas redistricting

...................

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A2934-2004Oct2.html
The American Dream Is at Risk, Kerry Says

Correct link to the Mercury News article on Texas
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/special_packages/election2004/9812459.htm

Strauss is a piece of work, ain't he Shade? Again... transference & projection. The tremendous aggression & lack of spiritual life is his own delimna... awa of his followers. He would greatly benefit imo by working a garden in order to eat... off on a deserted island perhaps. The guy is so ill.

* Robert Novak Breaks Hip in Miami Hotel Room Shower

Just when it’s getting fun, Robert Novak, 73, the veteran columnist [& megaLiar] & one of the hosts of CNN’s Crossfire is going to be hobbling.

Early Fri morning, the day after the first prez debate in Coral Gables FA, Novak slipped in in his Miami hotel room shower & broke his hip, a source told B&C. Novak & his Crossfire counterpart Paul Begala were in FL to fire at each other for Thur's show & to help with CNN's coverage of the debate.

The source said Novak will require a partial hip replacement, but had no est of how long that will keep him off the campaign trail, or at least trailing far behind it. http://www.broadcastingcable.com/CA457867.html

Hah! Do old wargeezers have hips?!?

Mike, your Florida ballot was amusing but I daresay that if Jeb could get away with it, he would do it.

wv, thanks for the link to friedman. what a jerk. it's like the friend that says lets go camping this weekend when everybody knows its going to rain. then when you're out there drenched, he pipes up and says, hey, lets get out of here, it's really wet. WTF friedman, you wanted this war with this president, you've got it. politics got us there, now political change needs to take place to get us out. i can't believe that such a total idiot as friedman is allowed to publish.

on a different note, the media whores are now singing a different toon in anticipation of kerry winning. i saw wolfie blitzrieg really question condi rice. gee, wolfie, where you been for the past four years baby? even howard 'the duck' kurtz is talking about how kerry wiped the floor with *. bet he's in trouble with his high-paid republican consultant wife.

peace

ps. for the 'saturn return will ruin bush' faction of the astrological community, i say pop a green tea and hoist it high. it's just beginning. you were soooooo right (you told us so!).

sorry Teresa, that was the actual ballot!

Army to Call Up 5,000 More Ex-Soldiers
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/100404Y.shtml

Influx of Wounded Strains VA
Claims Backlog Besets Returning U.S. Troops
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A2946-2004Oct2?language=printer

The smart answer to the Iraqi problem
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/FJ02Ak01.html

Mike, I love your sense of humor and think you're a needed asset to this board to lighten things up occasionally.

Astrologers, has anyone taken a peak at Karl Rove's chart to see if he will be upset on Nov. 2?

Well today I am taking my first day off from the campaign in about three weeks. This has been a very tumultuous week in the campaign for me with all sorts of unexpected problems emerging, and a lot of conflict between myself and the candidate and the volunteers. I needed a break.

Anyway, I wanted to share a very politically incorrect story about what went on yesterday. Yesterday, the morning started with the campaign attending a pow-wow for the local tribe to do voter registration. In the afternoon, we were doing a fundraiser in a rural part of the district whereby we held a trap shoot (which is kind of like a skeet shoot) and gave away a gun. Then after that, we went back to visit the tribe. So to summarize, yesterday's constituents included the following:

Indians.

White men with guns.

More Indians.

Sometimes in life, you have an experience that puts two things into such high relief and into such high contrast that you cannot help but notice the irony. I know I'm not supposed to jusge people or their pasttimes, so I'm sorry, but I'll choose the Indians over the gun nuts any day.

Mike brings more than levity to this Board... he brings immense intelligence... of a kind this misadministration could use... and a wonderful uranian out-of-the-box way of looking at thinks (with some Neptune thrown in for right brain, not cover) like the piece from Dorian Gray the last thread... or the reports from guido(sp)... and pieces of data I would have found nowhere else... Yeah, Teresa, Mike's a 'keeper'...

Shade,

Thanks sooooooooooo much for posting the winterboy piece... I printed the whole thing out last night... it's booksize! and plan to read it in pieces when my back is hurting from all this cleaning! There are some real jewels of info in this epistle... and you're right, overall it is depressing... to come to realize what has been going on for so long... Sally talks about back to McKinley and I know there have been some really mean characters in politics in the past, not just now... but I had sort of an 'overview'... winterboy gives detail... it's hard to wrap your mind around some of the stuff...

I highly recommend Shade's link upthread... if you've asked for 'truth' but you don't really want it, then don't go there... otherwise, print if off, it may not be there for long... like some other jewels that have disappeared off the net!

Visualize President Kerry, arm raised--- swearing to uphold the Constitution of the United States... Teresa's supportive gaze... cheering crowds...

Light to all

Dave,

Don't you dare say "I'm sorry"... you stick to your choice... imho it's the correct one... and enjoy your respite from politics and go back in charged and onto victory... politics needs the vision and ideals of someone like you...

From north of the border:

http://www.macleans.ca/culture/media/article.jsp?content=20041004_89710_89710

A little levity...

http://www.internetweekly.org/2004/10/cartoon_bush_stature_gap_gif.html

Dave, you are so wonderful! Thanks so much for sharing your enlightened observations--and for all you're doing for all of us.

WV,
Where do you get these? I almost fell out the chair laughing... such a hoot! thanks!

Here's a link dKos turned me onto... http://sistersspeakout.com

it's sponsored by Win Back Respect, the 527 Wes Clark is working with... the ad features women who lost siblings in Iraq, and their reactions to Bush's claim that we are making progress there. Powerful...

Also, dKos has a piece up on fact that many voters are tuning into fact that if dubya is elected the draft is coming...

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/10/3/105448/760

How Cheney's Halliburton Bribed Nigerians
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/100404W.shtml

Why Africa keeps fighting over oil
Peace talks continued in Nigeria Thursday between the government and the leader of a militia group.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/1001/p06s02-woaf.html

I am still reading. Lord have mercy, the father is way worse than the son, but the fruit doesn't fall far from the tree.

snip--

After losing the Presidential election, George H.W Bush pardons Caspar Weinberger and five other Iran-Contra defendants, including Elliot Abrams, Claire George and Robert McFarlane, on Christmas Eve, 1992. Weinberger and the others are thus spared perjury-obstruction trials; General Powell is saved the embarrassment of public attention over his dubious role in the Iran-contra affair; and President Bush, Colin Powell, et al, are freed from both the danger of perjury accusations and any further investigation, as Bush has eliminated the possibility of these men testifying against himself and General Colin Powell. The Iran-Contra case is essentially closed at this point.
[NOTE: 15 years later, Bush's son George W orders the National Archives to withhold 68,000 pages of Reagan administration documents, including papers belonging to his father, which become available- after a 12-year hold- for public scrutiny. Bush II also amends the laws regarding such records so that his successors cannot have access to them without his permission.]

http://www.winterboy.com/dejavu.html

Jo, down the road as you read, let me know what you think re GHW Bush's possible connections to JFK assasination and perhaps attempted Reagan assasination.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/03/international/middleeast/03tube.html?oref=login&hp

How the White House Embraced Disputed Arms Intelligence

Oh, Laurie, thank you for your thoughtful and very positive response about John Kerry's aura. It has opened a flood of questions about aura's in general and John Kerry too. I wanted Dennis Kucinich to be our next president but knew that it was not likely to happen. I was thinking at the time of Kerry's nomination that he would be a little bit of Clinton and a little bit of Bush. I have since done of lot of reading and have changed my mind about him and am eager to vote for him. In fact, can't wait. I went to see him in Grand Rapids in early August. How did you get so close. I got as close as I could get to him, but was not nearly as close as you due to Seceret Service, ropes, and newspeople.
When I looked up purple in my aura book, it had about 4 different shades and wasn't sure which one would fit. Thanks for the description -- I can look closer now for the appropriate color.

I have been practicing seeing aura around things. All I can see is a clear lighting that moves around and disappears quickly. Some call this a vision residue and others say it is an aura. I read on an Aura site (will provide) that this is correct and is the very beginning of being able to see more. I am unable to see any colors. Do you think I am doing this correct and that the clear color in the beginning is correct. Sometimes it surrounds what I am looking at, and other times becomes very, very, large, but still can't see any other color but clear. Is this how it started with you? Can you give me some pointers?

Beverly, I was very lucky Friday to get as close to Kerry as I did. We left very early for the rally and stood in the front instead of being seated and I was less than 10 feet away from him. I only got one good look at his aura because the lighting helped and I was able to look "beyond" him while looking at him, sort of to the side, and this is how I see auras. I am not lucky enough to see them automatically, but if I look just to the right or just to the left of a person and the lighting is good, I can spot it.

MoveOnPac just called and will be e-mailing me information on volunteering and canvassing my neighborhood. I am not very good at this, I know, but if Bush wins I KNOW I will look back and think of all the things I DIDN'T do to make a Kerry win happen. I am also going to be a poll watcher on election day for both Pinellas County Democrats and MoveOnPac.

We must be active. There is no other choice.

Also Beverly, don't take his color on Friday as set in stone . . . we all change auras for how we are feeling at the time. I took it that Kerry was a bit euphoric after his great showing in the debate the night before . . .

There is a blistering board on DU now in 'latest breaking news' on the Guardian's article about the effect of Nader on the Dems' chances.

I don't remember Nader's total vote percentage in 2000, but it's estimated at about 2% this year. I realize he had a negative impact on Gore then, but I'm not sure to what extent he tipped the race to dimson. Am I the only person in America that feels that those 2% of voters saying they plan to vote for Nader would never vote for Kerry anyway? If those 2% didn't vote for a third party candidate, I don't think they'd show up at the polls at all, and they're certainly not republicans. I realize that there has been a huge republican effort to get Nader on the ballot, but I really don't see that there is that much support being siphoned away from Kerry. Supporters of third party candidates don't believe that Kerry or dimson represent their interests so won't vote for either.

Shade,

I really don't look good in orange, or shackles... so I hesitate to answer your question online, except to say that in RR's case, who stood to gain? In JFKennedy's case, LBJ was thought to be very connected to the underground. And Nixon and GHWB were tied to the CIA. Do you think one can separate the mafia and the CIA? My conclusion decades ago was that JFK was not killed by a lone assassin and that has not changed. Interesting reading isn't it? I have seen as I am sure you have, bits and pieces of info here and there about various people and times that this link covers... but this is the first time I have discovered a timeline with details on historical political figures tied together in one piece of work... again, thank you for posting the link...

Do you see a real karmic link going back to those surrounding John F. Kennedy and now, many of these same people in power and John Forbes Kerry running for office?

DoD's budget has increased $100 Billion dollars since Bush took office (that's a B as in BILLION not million). AND they're planning on eliminating 25% of US bases under base realignment.

Sooner or later someone has to ask where the hell the money is really going and what is it really paying for.

Jill, thanks for the link to Foxfire, and everyone else's input. I sent your comment to my daughter...she and her husband just installed a server computer for her boss (at home)....I recommended that she look into the Foxfire browser instead of IE...in fact, everything they installed worked perfectly....except IE, which proved to be a bit balky...

Pat, so glad to see you back posting, I wondered what had happened to you. Jill, I have mention my grandson in the last week, when I started talking about how he was born on May 18, 2003, at 8:33 Am here is SF bay area. And how we later found out that (his name, Aidan, means "fiery one" in Gaelic) that his birthtime was exactly 23 years to the minute after Mt. St. Helens erupted. I should have known that the message to me, pscyhically, was that MSH was going to erupt again. Then I realized that he was born with that 19 Sag. Pluto.

Pat C.,
We are broke... the treasury is empty... and we owe more than our descendants can pay... yet, the public doesn't seem to notice...

When I lived in NM for awhile in the 80s I met a number of people who had gone 'underground' during and after the VietNam war... they refused to pay taxes... one woman told me she sent her return in every year saying she was not going to pay or report...

Some say the 'installation' of dubya was illegal, the invasion of Iraq was illegal so throw the rascals out. Wonder what would happen if hundreds of thousands refused to pay taxes? until there was some accountability or restraint or new government? It reminds me of a teenager who goes off to college and every day calls for more and more money... and meanwhile is spending time at the beach, and reporting to Mom and Dad that his job is 'hard' and he needs a rest every now and again, and he flunked out this term, but wants four more years to get it right... and never mind the credit cards are maxed out, the tuition is gone, just mortgage the old homestead Mom and Dad, 'trust me'...

Shade, Jo....a while back in August I posted a dream which I had had and said that the next day I had gotten an email from Catherine Austin Fitts (http:www.solari.com), who just won a huge long case against the Government. She is (now) an ex Repug, had been appointed as Assistant Secretary of HUD by Bush sr. in 1989. In the email (which went out to her entire list and was published at Scoop and a number of other sites) she more or less writes that GHWB and minions were responsible for the death of her mother in 1976 in Philadelphia (although ruled a "suicide" by officials".) She had mentioned to me in private emails that JFK assassination was a "black ops" mission, and that the character of the black ops guy in the movie by Oliver Stone (JFK) was a real guy, who knew the goods, and who actually did talk to Jim Harrison exactly as the movie portrayed it.

My roomate when I lived in Hollywood was in Dem politics...she was there at the Ambassador Hotel when RFK was shot. What I am saying is what I was thinking....all of these assassinations have been "lone gunman"....always. Disaffected, turned....John Hinkley, Jr.'s dad was a close friend of GHWB...and also president of American Oil in Houston. According to the Unauthorized bio of GHWB, Neal& Sharon Bush and the Hinkleys were supposed to have dinner together the night before RR was shot, but that the dinner was cancelled....why? Well...we could speculate that somebody got the word somewhere along the line that it shouldn't take place. Or maybe it is just a co-incidence. Ha. I think the Lone Gunman scenario has just been too consistent to be co-incidental. I think it is just VERY highly effective....and hard to prove that there are ties to any group.

Shade, Jo....a while back in August I posted a dream which I had had and said that the next day I had gotten an email from Catherine Austin Fitts (http:www.solari.com), who just won a huge long case against the Government. She is (now) an ex Repug, had been appointed as Assistant Secretary of HUD by Bush sr. in 1989. In the email (which went out to her entire list and was published at Scoop and a number of other sites) she more or less writes that GHWB and minions were responsible for the death of her mother in 1976 in Philadelphia (although ruled a "suicide" by officials".) She had mentioned to me in private emails that JFK assassination was a "black ops" mission, and that the character of the black ops guy in the movie by Oliver Stone (JFK) was a real guy, who knew the goods, and who actually did talk to Jim Harrison exactly as the movie portrayed it.

My roomate when I lived in Hollywood was in Dem politics...she was there at the Ambassador Hotel when RFK was shot. What I am saying is what I was thinking....all of these assassinations have been "lone gunman"....always. Disaffected, turned....John Hinkley, Jr.'s dad was a close friend of GHWB...and also president of American Oil in Houston. According to the Unauthorized bio of GHWB, Neal& Sharon Bush and the Hinkleys were supposed to have dinner together the night before RR was shot, but that the dinner was cancelled....why? Well...we could speculate that somebody got the word somewhere along the line that it shouldn't take place. Or maybe it is just a co-incidence. Ha. I think the Lone Gunman scenario has just been too consistent to be co-incidental. I think it is just VERY highly effective....and hard to prove that there are ties to any group.

sorry for the double post...whacky stuff going on with my browser.

Jo, unforunately you are so very correct in your view of what has been done to the economy. Still I have faith....in something I can not name.

Judi, I've been in and out posting and reading. Somethimes I am quiet and just read and bring what I have found. It's an old pattern of mine. I just must be silent. It may be a phase of burn out. I've been there several times in the past decade but I keep coming back.

Do you think that when Captain Sally comes back and sees we've posted 375+ comments over the weekend, she'll make us stand in corners of cyberspace or assign us time outs. Boy, we're sumppin', aren't we?

Keep the people frightened

Of things they cannot know

Is the secret of the Tomb

If they knew what you and I know

They would know it is just men

Who rob them, cheat them, kill them

Then start it all again

Orville X

Introduction

shylurker, you bet! we've been so prolific...no wonder Pat C. gets burned out!

Hello all----
just a quick note to Shade, Jo and Judi Gemini re RR and GHWB.....(not sure of legitmacy or source) I read somwewhere online that Nancy blames GW1 for the attempt on RR's life....given his long CIA history and the small amount of factual stuff we know about him, I certanly wouldn't put it past him.....

BTW...since I stopped using IE browser, my compuiter has stopped crashing. (using Opera browser) Also, has anyone else read the Unauthorized Biography of GHWB?Someone else said in an email that when B** is defeated he will thenn be known as "an Elder Statesman"...also..another friend reminded me that the new OS for Macs has "Safari" browser built in, and she is really pleased with it...great security, no spam or spyware...the new Macs (G5) have 128 bit encryption....no one will bother writing programs to hack or worm or virus up them.

Garry....if I remember right, you are in TN?
Catherine Austin Fitts lives there too....or did, she may have moved since her suit was settled in June. I can repost her email to me about GHWB/CIA/Rumsfield/CHeney...or I can send it privately...

exerpt from that older piece by Fitts...

Those of us who have lost loved ones to America's black budget operations may be rich or we may be poor. We may be black, brown, yellow or white. We may be citizens of many nations. We may live in the East or the West or in the North or the South. We may be Christian, Buddhist, Muslim or Jew. We may be conservative or liberal in our views. We may divide up our philosophies in many ways based on a whole series of intentionally controversial and divisive issues. Yet we all share an intimate connection. The people responsible for the death of our loved ones and the failure to hold them accountable are a surprisingly small number of people.

The true intimacy of our connection will be revealed ˆ and real solutions will begin -- when we ask and answer two simple questions:

Who Did This?
Who Let This Happen on Purpose?

My mother died in 1976. George H. W. Bush was Director of the Central Intelligence Agency. Richard Cheney was White House Chief of Staff. Donald Rumsfeld was Secretary of Defense.

For full article:
http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0408/S00265.htm

http://tinyurl.com/635b3

PLEASE send the Iconoclast even $5.00 if you can spare it. They went out on a BIG limb to endorse KE04 in Crawford, now they face going under due to subscribers and advertisers cancelling.

I signed up for the Zogby polls (Zogby.com home page) about 10 days ago, and just got my first poll to complete....when you finish, they allow you to download all the analysis of the earlier polls taken. It is just fascinating! There is a really big schism in the country....and to make a long story short, it appears to me that 1) Repugs & Bush supporters think the danger comes from OUTSIDE the country, and that hard work and morality are their watchwords.

2) Dems & Kerry supporters believe the danger comes from WITHIN (civil rights) the country and that religion and morality should have nothing to do with politics

3) the Undecideds can't decide about either! The good news, is they will vote for the most part anyway!

One other thing...it appears that the Swift Boat debacle has boomeranged..it has HURT Bush! Especially with the undecideds, but also with the Bush supporters! Hopefully, Sally's story of her friend having the veils ripped from her eyes during the debate will also have the same effect on others. Oh...and only 3% of those polled Bush supporters have seen Farenheit 9/11...

u r my favourite austrologer. i daily used to read your 4cast in Mid-day newspapers in India. My birth date is 30.10.1958 at 11.50 a.m. please tell me my 4cast monthly and yearly 2005. I am umesh chauhan from Mumbai. It will be great pleasuer to hear from u.
date: 10.06.2005

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