Thanks, Sally. Sounds like you're feeling a little Jupiter optimism. I always get a little impatient when I see an outer planet getting near the end of a sign and can't wait until it changes. The change in energy is almost addictive. I hope Jupiter in Libra brings some balance to this chaotic world we're living in.

Sally!

We love you! I feel better than I have all day after reading your column. Thank you for the cosmic solace. We needed it! Do you recommend the Mignone book to find out more on black holes? I.m picturing a yawning black chasm that this whole miserable Administration is hopefully about to fall into. :-)

Teresa....I posted the zoller site on the last post on the last thread.

"Jupiter throwing herself into Libra at 10:33pm Washington"

Whooo Hhooo, so that's the experiencing! I love the last few minutes of degrees, I can always sense the change in the air, it's so enticing.

Sally...this is fine work...lots of synchonicity working here...

just read while eating dinner a piece by a guy who writes about the military for the LA Times...he said that Rumsfield and the Neocons were "looking in the mirror" thinking that there were looking thru a doorway when they planned the Iraq invasion....Rumsfield has a kind of "Adonis" (admiring his image in the mirror) type of energy I've always thought. He sure as hell has conversations with himself....

So....these quintiles were last seen when? Not in modern history....hmmmmm...and the eclipses. That is something I wouldn't mind hearing more about....

Oh...the Robert Zoller page is
http://www.new-library.com/zoller/

The more I think about black holes, the more I like the concept....talk about expanding the head! Sally, how many more black holes will be crossed before (or even after, the way this election stuff is going) Nov 2? This is really great.....

Oh...and I picked this up reading about Medival Astrology...on predictions in the 12 months before 9/11...

PREDICTION AND 11th SEPTEMBER 2001
.....  By way of illustration, in April 1997 an astrologer made the statement:
 
"America will have a new president when all this kicks off and he will be in the stamp of Bush. A younger more inexperienced version from the same house". 
 
This statement was not primarily the product of a deductive astrological analysis. As such it is not classed as an astrological prediction but nonetheless proved extraordinarily accurate. It was made at a time when no one empirically knew that Bush junior would be running for the White House let alone would be American president.  The words “all this kicks off” refer to terrorism.

Talk about throwing light on a subject -
The Guardian is balancing things out...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,5024413-110878,00.html

As an Aquarian, I can tell you that when Uranus changes signs, my life goes through some clear changes. Kerry is a Sag with Sag rising as well. Jupiter, his ruler, has just left the sign of its detriment, where it is quite restricted, and entered a Venusian sign, Libra. This has to be good for Kerry, making it easier for him to open up to people and connect.

Nancy,

I'm an Aquarian too. When does Uranus change signs?

Looking back at all past presidents and presidential candidates since WWII, I have to say that there was always a sense that no matter who won, the country would be okay. I don't have that sense about George Bush. A friend of mine recently posited that another 4 years of Bush may be part of the leadup to the 2012 phenomenon. If that's true, then we may be facing a global revolution. In college, I took a course called "Comparative Revolutions" where we looked at all of the big political revolutions including the USA, France, Russia, France, Japan, and several others. In every case there were three factors that caused the revolution. There is a great deal of academic dispute about what the third factor is, but the first two factors are an overextended military and a massive financial defecit. In other words, the country is overcommitted to foreign wars and can't find a way to pay for them. The third factor seemed to involve some sort of revolutionary ideology taking root. If (and I reiterate IF) a revolution is the destiny of our nation, what will the ideology be? I see two possibilites: Chrisitian fundamentalism and democratic global governance. Given these options, let's hope the left can coherently articulate the latter.

Vis we love the way you pop up and it's always so great to have you around and I fondly remember your article on the Black Holes

Anyone who wants to know more about Alex Miller-Mignone's work, he often writes for Maya Del Mar's site. I am providing a link to his most recent article.

http://www.daykeeperjournal.com/alex.shtml

I don't know if he has any books left but you can reach him at his email provided at the bottom of the article.

Pluto is just sitting, sitting, sitting on top of Black Hole Ereshkigal at 19 Sagittarius. Also the Sun, Mercury and Mars will pass over the Black Hole Nemesis at 13 Libra. That will be an interesting transit to watch because it squares Mr. Bush's Sun and is very close to his Moon.

As I explained in my last article, these planets ingressing into Libra will be a boon for Kerry as it Sexitles his Sun and Trines his Gemini, as well as Edwards Sun and planets in Gemini. Although George Bush has planets in Libra in the 3rd house they are somewhat debilitated by their Square to his Cancer, giving Kerry/Edwards more of an ease with the Libra energy plus Jupiter is very close to his Midheaven, people seeing him in a more favorable light, just while Bush is mucking through a Saturn square to his Midheaven. As I've said all along, Aug and Sept would be very difficult months for Kerry and October will be hard months for Bush and the US. When things are hard for the US who would we, the people, blame for that? Oh I know, the leader of the US, what's his name?

Dave, a writer friend of mine is fond of quoting a famous writer (of course, I cannot remember who), who said (I paraphrase) "history is repleat with the sound of wooden shoes clacking up the stairs as silken slippers go down". I think you recall rightly about those two factors...military and deficit. What I keep wondering is WHY...what's the neocon payoff? The unthinkable is revolution....with them as the winning junta.

http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20040731213239607

Senator Dayton: NORAD Lied About 9/11

(Added Aug. 4: Transcript of Sen. Dayton's remarks of July 31.)

WV....this Guardian article could have serious consequences (in a sane world, of course), although I read about the Nazi connection 3 years ago, it hasn't appeared yet in any major newspaper.....the declassification of the documents are giving legitimacy to that which has been dismissed...but now, hmmmm.
3 years ago I wrote to Jock Gill at Democrats.com and asked him to check out some of the documents from the Webster Tarpely "Unauthorized Biography of GHWBush"....he found a copy of the Trading with Enemies Act which closed down the business of Prescott Bush in 1942...so now it looks as if there are more documents being released. (By the bye, it was genealogy that had me stumble into that one...Prescott Bush's co director of Brown Brothers Harriman was one Thatcher Brown, which was the name of one of my forebearers from CT. I was trying to find out if this guy was part of that family when I found this nazi banking connection.)

Sally, what black hole is going to rule this one?

I think there are several payoffs (in their minds) for the neos. First, the very right wing of the republican party has always despised what Roosevelt did from the moment he did it. They have tried for decades to undo his good works. Destroying the ecomony will certainly put paid to all social programs.

Then there is the matter of world dominance combined with the goal of securing Israel's safety by destroying Iraq, Iran and Syria.

The third part of the payment is the rapturite vison of appocalypse and the return of the Messiah.

Then there is the sociopathic vision they have of themselves as having the power to direct the world, that they are indeed the "saviors". Although a few years ago we would have thought such a notion impossible to conceive look at our president who believes he is the chosen vessel, the right hand of God. These are men who serve at the pleasure of the president.

Well during the period of time that the Harriman's, Walker's, and Prescott Bush was pouring money into Hitler's machine Saturn and Neptune were squaring Ereshkigal, to me that Black Hole represents the worst of humanity because Ereshkigal rules the underworld, not the Damon Runyon type of underworld, but the deep really slimy underworld, the very worst of ourselves.

Judi Gemini,

It's almost as if the neocons think they are above it all. Or they think that if they play into the activated archetypes, conservatives will take on the role that FDR played in the first part of this century. There is an excellent book called "The Fourth Turning" that looks at generational/archetypal dynamics in American and Western civilization. It's almost as if the neocons are trying to "preempt" the fourth turning which is the crisis/destruction phase in the generational cycles. The real question in my mind is whether or not they are aware that what they are doing is wrong. Example: I have to at least believe that someone like Karl Rove knows that his tricks are dirty. Or does he?

Here's an ethical/philosophical dilemna for you: Imagine for a moment that you are the almighty and you are deciding whether or not Karl Rove will go to hell. If he is aware that what he is doing is wrong, should he go to hell. If he is NOT aware that what he is doing is wrong, should he go to hell?

The dilemna turns on whether or not there is conscious intent. The question in my mind is: are these people consciously playing into the generational archetypes or are they doing so by accident? If the latter is the case, then they are destined to lead our country through the crisis phase, either bringing us through in one piece or causing the complete and total destruction of our society, and perhaps taking a large portion of the planet along with them. If they are simply manipulating us, they are due for a reckoning.

Oh Dave...the Fourth Turning! I own the book, and it was co- written by a guy I went to Burlingame high school with...I was madly in love with his older brother (who actually became an international banker.) This is Bill Strauss, who also founded the musical parody group The Capital Steps. I think it is a brilliant book. I don't know if you kow or not, but there is a web site and discussion group on aspects of the Fourth Turning.

It is interesting....the movie Ghost comes to mind reading Sally's info above on the black hole positioning with Ereshkigal....the deep slimy black hole underworld with those black slimy wraiths coming to get Rove et al. Hell is the black end of the astral plane spectrum....my astrology teacher (1990, when the movie came out) surprised the whole class by saying those wraiths were exactly right on and do exist. I looked at that movie a whole lot differently after that. Sally, maybe they eminate from that Ereshkigal black hole.

And yet again, when a liberal feels like they are going to have yet another failure, they resort to the only thing they do best, slander, defame, and demean the other candidate. As if anyone on here is perfect enough to cast the first stone. I think this reveals how much failure, pessimism, and underachievement so many on here must be exhibiting.

Sally....so Ereshkigal seems to have a pretty powerful presence....this is blowing my mind, to speak a little 60's lingo. I can see why so much seems "fated"....although I would like to think that these are tests we need to rise above. Ereshkigal at 19 Sagittarius with Pluto, and a transit over 13 Libra at black hole Nemesis....is this why you've been saying Oct 10 would be a turning point?

PS...Dave, since you've read the book the Fourth Turning, you know the cycle was disrupted once before....The Civil War....did I remember correctly? It's been a long time since I read it.

Sally, from the Robert Zoller article on his predictions on 9/11....seems as if it applies; also, to the ill wind which often blows throught here. I also thought of you when Zoller mentions that not every one who studies astrology is capable of being one (he expands elsewhere on the "gifts" which you and the others who write for this blog have above the norm. )
http://www.new-library.com/zoller/features/

The above is not to imply that all those who study astrology will be or are capable of being astrologers. In reading Astrology and Wisdom [4]  you will see that indeed, very few really can be. Nevertheless, this does not stop the loquacious and ignorant from proclaiming themselves astrologers and conversing loudly on it.
 
Many of you have tried to address their misunderstandings only to find yourselves subject to their personal reproach or praise, both being equally inconsequential.  It is perhaps now better that you desist in these engagements.  Instead, the time may more profitably be used in the more pressing task of developing your skill and expertise. 
 
In all your relations with fellow “astrologers,” it is requested that you distinguish those who are true to the Art from those who are not. Please do this by examination of their deeds rather than from the eloquence of their words. Where the words; what they claim they can do, and the deeds; what they actually can do, do not match there you have found the charlatan.
 
Please also bear in mind, that any person who attacks another’s character [5] or steals the ideas of another [6] and proclaims those ideas their own or who promotes him/herself as a leading authority in Predictive astrology but fails to make consistently accurate predictions, shows by such deeds that s/he is not really an astrologer at all [7].  Moreover, and this is the greater tragedy, too often these same people are in equal measure as furious and insane towards others as they are ignorant of themselves, which is why they believe they can present themselves as practitioners of a sacred Art. They are now better ignored.

i have two, count 'em two, suggestions that will make all you feel very, very good, i mean really, really good, as in 'oh yeah, right, that's it':

*****why not contribute to astroworld (little button to the left on the main page)

*****and also some mana to http://www.moveon.org/front for 'Get Out the Vote' (GOTV) in the swing states. it's a real rush!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! or as howard dean says 'yehaaaaaaa'

Moveon.org and the Kerry camp is already gathering funds for the recount and they are asking money for that. By the way, Colorado has so many new registered voters they cannot keep up. 30,000 in just 27 days and a lot are the increased hispanic population

And Mike, thanks for the plug for Astroworld and thanks for all of you who do contribute.

Judy gemini,
I read both Generations and the Fourth turning in I think the mid 90's though the fourth turning came out a little later than that.

The question that haunts many of who have those books on their brain is just what is the "American
Winter" going to be about.At first I thought economic now I think political but it could be both and if the Mayan prophecys are correct we aint seen the worst till about 2012.

Or you can look at the articles of Gover in the financial section at
http://stariq.com And he clearly thinks economic lasting from about 2010 till 2015.

I have this horrific feeling that after reading the articles at http://awakeinthedream.com
that it is going to be far worse than simply economic or political.Its like the unconscious evil of our times has to manifest in the world before we can own it and transform it.

This perhaps is what the Mayans are talking about in there speaking of this being an end of the world or I think 25,000 year cycle time.

In short... I dont think we have seen anything yet.

I only hope that Kerry becomes the next great American president by somehow getting us thru this period and drawing out our better tendencies into the world scene the opposite of what is happening now.

The 72year cycle of great American presidents implys this should be the case.

That is http://www.awakeninthedream.com
I have forgotton who first gave us the heads up on this sight but many thanks. Those articles need to be read and reread.

It is not easy to see evil and not be affected by it.Bush has a way of making us less then what we should be. To fight this thing and yet not be like is not an easy thing to do.

Sally,
Here goes......................
The first e-mail I've had from IRC Communications since we talked. I book,marked the page & will send from it rather than out of my e-mail..........................
THAT DIDN"T WORK!
http://www.presentdanger.org/commentary/2004/0409sinister.html ( hope this does)
Commentators in the mainstream media seem genuinely perplexed over the polite but notably unenthusiastic reception given to President George W. Bush’s September 21 address before the United Nations General Assembly. Why wasn’t a speech that emphasized such high ideals as democracy, the rule of law, and the threat of terrorism better received?

The answer may be found through a critical examination of the assumptions underlying the idealistic rhetoric of the U.S. president’s message. Below are a number of examples:

“We know that dictators are quick to choose aggression, while free nations strive to resolve differences in peace. We know that oppressive governments support terror, while free governments fight the terrorists in their midst.”

Notwithstanding the clear moral preference of democracy over dictatorship, this formula fails to withstand closer scrutiny. There are many dictators in the past and present—as nasty as they may have been toward their own people—who have not engaged in acts of aggression against other nations and have not supported terrorists. Furthermore, the United States—one of the world’s oldest democracies—has demonstrated through its invasion of Iraq, as well as its earlier invasions of Panama, Grenada, and other countries, that it can certainly be “quick to choose aggression.” Similarly, the decision by the Bush administration a few weeks ago to allow into the country a group of right-wing Cuban exiles who had been implicated in a series of attacks against civilian targets—including an attempt to set off a series of explosions in a crowded auditorium at a Panamanian university in 1998, and the blowing up of an airliner in Barbados in 1976—as well as the active U.S. support for the Contra terrorists who attacked civilian targets in Nicaragua during the 1980s—demonstrate that democracies do indeed allow “terrorists in their midst.”
Pat QOP

Juan Cole speaks on Elections in Iraq:

~snip~

Both Bush and Allawi affirmed on Thursday that elections would be held as promised. Donald Rumsfeld, whose uncontrollable mouth is sometimes useful insofar as he lets the truth slip, said that elections might not be possible in all the provinces. Allawi minimized the violence, saying that it was confined to three of Iraq's 18 provinces. This assertion is simply untrue, and is anyway misleading because Baghdad is one of the three Allawi had in mind! Could an election that excluded the capital, with at least five million inhabitants, be considered valid? Denis D. Gray of AP notes:

"However, at least six provinces – Baghdad, Anbar, Diyala, Salahuddin, Kirkuk and Nineveh – have been the scene of significant attacks on U.S. troops and Iraqi authorities in the past month. The only areas not plagued by bloodshed are the three northern provinces controlled by Kurds. The situation in many areas, however, is unknown since journalists' travel is restricted by security fears."

(Why is it that only print journalists, and increasingly not television ones, challenge such disinformation from politicians any more?)

The situation is even worse than Gray allows. As recently as August, the British expended 100,000 rounds of ammunition in Maysan province at Amara, saying they had the most intense fighting since the Korean War! Likewise there was heavy fighting in Wasit (Kut) and Najaf. In the map below I made the present security-challenged provinces red, and those that saw recent heavy fighting are purple. I ask you if this looks like the problems are in "three of 18 provinces," or whether it looks to you like elections held only in the white areas (as Donald Rumsfeld seems to envision) would produce a legitimate government:

http://www.antiwar.com/cole/?articleid=3647

* [bushakiller] Upbeat as Iraq Burns

...As the situation in Iraq moves from bad to worse, [rez], based on his public comments, seems to be edging further and further from reality. This is disturbing, to say the least. ... http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/24/opinion/24herbert.html

Kill, kill, kill, KILL, KILLLLLL!!!! THAT'S the bottom line... not jumbled head cogitations.

Last night I went to a fun art gallery in Chelsea to an anti war anti-Bush art show with performance artists. A tamborine hung from the ceiling with * painted on it and said 'beat me', so I did. I think artists are some of the most intelligent people on earth. Giving of themselves and their flow of the cosmic juices. This is why * and his minions are so anti-intellectual: they are boring, dull, intellectually uncurious. All their creativity stuck, so they get angry and jealous of those who can let it flow. Yeah, so I beat on the *. Call me a *-basher, I am. Who cares what stuck and jealous people think and say because their own lives are so dull. Nothing better to do than spew their jealousy. So transparent. I bet most in the * misadministration wish they were actors or something better and more fun. Can you imagine waking up everyday to feel so icky and negative? No wonder they spew hatred.

Hey annkats, thanks for the props,

* Progressives Take Primary Elections by Storm!
The results are in from last wk's primaries in WA State & WI, & I want to make sure you know that our progressive candidates did extremely well. Progressive Majority's farm team holds strong at 100 candidates. Click on the link below to learn more about these rising stars or keep reading for quick stats.

Progressive Majority Candidates

67% of Progressive Majority's WA State and WI candidates in contested primaries won;
75% of our candidates of color were successful; &
72% of our female candidates claimed primary victory!

Gear up for Nov 2nd

In WI, we have a chance to make solid gains in one of the nation's most critical battleground states. And in WA State, we are poised to take back the state senate, with a gain of only one seat needed to put the State Senate in progressive hands. http://www.progressivemajority.org/

What a fun idea, bhakti!! I do believe I'll hang an appropriate geegaw from MY CEILING & do same. I'm gonna whack the thing till there's nothin' left! ;O)

One can write certain names all over the geegaw... paste certain pics on it... hahahaaaa! Give the ritual extra OOMPH!!

I wonder if anyone in Germany has done any research on the Bush family and UBC.

In 1938, just before the outbreak of war in Europe, the German Luftwaffe had an urgent requirement for 500 tons of tetraethyl lead. Ethyl was advised by an official of DuPont that such quantities of ethyl would be used by Germany for military purposes.14 This 500 tons was loaned by the Ethyl Export Corporation of New York to Ethyl G.m.b.H. of Germany, in a transaction arranged by the Reich Air Ministry with I.G. Farben director Mueller-Cunradi. The collateral security was arranged in a letter dated September 21, 1938 (15) through Brown Brothers, Harriman & Co. of New York.

http://www.reformation.org/wall-st-ch4.html

15 For original documents see Nuremburg Military Tribunal, I.G. Farben case, Volume VIII, pp. 1189-94.

Odd website. But interesting book online, WALL STREET AND THE RISE OF HITLER By Antony C. Sutton. Well footnoted.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Rather appears to have been set up by his boss who votes as a citizen of Viacom rather than an American citizen.

 http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110005669
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Bush Adviser Rove Has Ties to Swift Boat Donor Perry (Update1)
http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000176&sid=aOn3YB0FKHN8&refer=us_elections

Annkats, thanks so much for your compliment back on the previous thread. I just post what I find of interest (and since we're of like minds, frequently find something I want to post already posted here!). Happy, happy 47th. I trust it brings you health, wisdom and happiness.

These pinko-supremacist cracker killers need crackin' & whackin'!! Blessed Be!

Are there any vedic astrologers on this site? I mentioned in my last post on the previous thread that I have a western Gemini Moon, which is a taurus vedic moon - and I have been going through Sadhe Sati (Saturn through 12th, 1st and 2nd houses as counted from the Vedic Radical Moon) which should be about to end. I just looked it up and it looks to me like John Kerry has a Taurus Vedic moon as well.

Sadhe Sati can be very bad - Princess Diana died near the end of her Sadhe Sati, after many hard years. I'm reasearching this all on the web - so I'd like some confirmation from someone. One site I'm using is: http://www.astroiq.com/LearnAstroFromVinay2.aspx

From what I can tell, according to vedic astrology Saturn entered Cancer September 5th - and will return to Gemini in January 2005 through May 2005. Then move on for good. Does that mean for people with a Taurus Vedic moon - things get better at the end of 2004 - then get worse in early 2005 - before they get better again in May? If so - could that mean Kerry will get elected and find out when he takes office what a mess the country's in? I read that Clinton didn't realize the budget was as bad as it was until he took office because the first Bush admin tried to hide the true numbers. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to think the current Bush admin might be hiding how bad things really are - in Iraq - and who knows what else.

Just a thought - I'd like some feedback from someone who knows - since I'm figuring this out on my own from web pages - and Sally said earlier - a little bit of knowledge....

Wonderful article worth the read, over at the DU by Sheila Samples

http://www.democraticunderground.com/articles/04/09/25_dogs.html

"Terrorism is the war of the powerless, war is the terrorism of the powerful."

Quoted by Bishop John Shelby Spong, who heard it from an unnamed former Middle East ambassador in Denver August 2004 --- with thanks to JoannaOregon for providing article...

Financing Fascism
http://tabletalk.salon.com/webx?13@@.773a37d3/0

And make sure the geegaw whackin' stick has some BIG OL' NAILS stickin' out on the end of it... you know, ala mel gibson's pornopuritan gag snuff film. ;O)

Saaay, Miss Jo... you got a whackin' stick somewhere in that home of yours?! Get it out & whack for your Soul! ...oh, & have some fun! We'll make a party out of it!! ;O)

Joanna,

I sure do, a woods full of big sticks! Problem - I can't stand looking at aWol's face --- taints my energy! There's lots of straw available right now, and I thought I would fill some old clothes with it and make a 'straw man' and whack the day lights out of that thing, right up to full moon... Yes in deed, I feel a whole lot of satisfaction headed my way...

Thanks Joanna... for your Light and all that you do... namaste

Middle Class Misnomer

by David Sirota, Christy Harvey, Judd Legum and Jonathan Baskin
http://www.americanprogressaction.org/

snip-- **WHO'S PAYING FOR THIS THING?: Congress passed the $146 billion legislation with no word on who was going to pay for it. It will add to the already exploding deficit, which is projected to reach $422 billion this year, a record high. And one thing's certain: eventually someone will pay for the tax cuts. That means either raising taxes or, more likely, slashing programs. Cutting programs means "there is a substantial possibility that many, if not most, middle-class households
will lose more from the measures ultimately adopted to offset the tax cuts' costs than they receive in tax-cut benefits." In the meantime, we
will burden future generations by adding to a deficit, already project to reach $2.3 trillion in the next ten years.**

We must work to take back the House and Senate. The House currently seems to populated by such fools. Is there any significance to this thing being passed while Jupiter was at 29 Virgo?

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/25/opinion/25sat1.html
An Un-American Way to Cam

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=694&e=1&u=/ap/bush
Bush Twists Kerry's Words on Iraq

annkats,
pardon my self-involvement ;)
Happy Happy Birthday! (one day belated)
Sadgurunath Maharaj Ki Jay!
Blessed Be!
May you know joy and peace within and without!

Here's another fun idea created by one of the artists at the show --you know, those creative, intelligent people with a life and happiness still a part of their lives so they do not have to become a politican or scam on a blog all day to get some neurotic attention and control others and try to run the world. yeah them-- a video of a blow up bush balloon that never falls but pos up, and people, LOTS of people--you know those smart, informed, readers, with a life who do not sit in front ot SCUM TV and listen to talk radio RW indoctrination all day---beating on the monster. They interviewed tons of po'd people complaining how the monster was not elected and pushed it's way in uninvited and unwelcomed.

I believe in fairy tales too, and the good guys always beat the monsters.

suzieliberal: With your Vedic Moon in Taurus the most intense time for your Saturn Transit was when it was through Aries, Taurus and Gemini, the intensity of this transit wanes once it gets past completely, 15 degrees from your moon. Don't know your Moon degree but let's say it's 28 Taurus, at about 17 to 19 degrees Gemini you can breath a little easier and Saturn will not be returning to those degrees.

Thanks Sally! My Vedic moon is 20 degrees Taurus. So - I am out of the woods then - right? Is the first 15 degrees the worst - and then it continues for another 45 degrees past the moon. I read it was a 90 degree arc - 45 degrees before the moon and 45 degrees after. What do you think this means for John Kerry?

Thanks again!

Another view on what the neocons have to gain

http://usa.mediamonitors.net/content/view/full/10018/

I'm looking at the ephemeris and tr Saturn went into my natal 12H in 1993 and left the natal 2H in 2003. I have Pisces intercepted in the 12H. It was a long haul if that was indeed my Sadhe Sati. It starts with alot of unconcious matter coming to the surface. I think if we are not concious during that time the energy reserved built up can bite you when it's over or on it's way out. That's what i'm seeing and remembering.

bhakti,

How was Saturn going over the Ascendant for you? Just curious as I'm coming up to that in the not-too-distant future. :-)

Jonathan, I know your question was directed to bhtaki, but I want to share my Saturn over Ascendant. When Saturn crossed over my Ascendant (Taurus) I felt a burden on my shoulders. My Mom took ill and throughout the whole crossing I was given the responsibility of caring for her.

During that time, althought I learned and understood that my capabilities for caring were endless, there was just a sense of being constantly responsible. It was a joyless and sobering period, for me.

Foreign Policy Judgement - Embracing Et Tu, Musharraf?
by DemFromCT
Sat Sep 25th, 2004 at 14:13:17 GMT

You remember our ally in the WoT, the President of Pakistan? The one that was going to catch Bin Laden for Bush (assuming he's still alive)? Would that be the one that Nicholas Kristof refers to today in his NY Times column?

“I'm talking about the arrangement under which the U.S. cuts Pakistan some slack on nuclear proliferation, in exchange for President Pervez Musharraf's joining aggressively in the hunt for Osama - in the hope of catching him by Nov. 2.
If a nuclear weapon destroys the U.S. Capitol in coming years, it will probably be based in part on Pakistani technology. The biggest challenge to civilization in recent years came not from Osama or Saddam Hussein but from Abdul Qadeer Khan, the father of Pakistan's atomic bomb. Dr. Khan definitely sold nuclear technology to Iran, North Korea and Libya, and, officials believe, to several more nations as well.”

And in exchange for politicizing the WoT to win the election, would this be the same fellow stabbing Bush in the back on CNN?

ZAHN: Is the world a safer place because of the war in Iraq?
MUSHARRAF: No. It's more dangerous. It's not safer, certainly not.

ZAHN: How so?

MUSHARRAF: Well, because it has aroused actions of the Muslims more. It's aroused certain sentiments of the Muslim world, and then the responses, the latest phenomena of explosives, more frequent for bombs and suicide bombings. This phenomenon is extremely dangerous.

ZAHN: Was it a mistake to have gone to war with Iraq?

MUSHARRAF: Well, I would say that it has ended up bringing more trouble to the world.

Good judgement by Bush, eh? Politicize the real WoT and get shafted by the truth in the process. How about electing a President who will put his country before his own reelection? There are words for those who do otherwise, and they are not very nice words. Nonetheless, more of this and you may be hearing them all the same.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/9/25/101317/987

The Sade Sati, while very difficult usually does not act alone as an aspect. As an example just from the Western perspective last two years while his Sade Sati was most active, he also had Pluto conj his Sun, oppose his Moon, Saturn conjunct his Moon and oppose Pluto, his second Saturn Return, Uranus oppose his Jupiter so you see he had plenty of aspects creating turbulence for him and the least of these would have been the Sade Sati, and he is thankfully, on the down side of all of these apects including the Sade Sati.

If you are going to study astrology and I heartily recommend people do study it, remember that you cannot take just one aspect (either natal or transiting) and interpret the chart by that, it might seem as if we as mundane astrologers do that but we don't. We just don't list all we are taking into account because it seems like a maze.

As an example I have a client who has a ton of Neptune aspects, she's dreamy, creative, passive, religious and generous. She also has a Sun/Saturn square which can be pretty cold, calculating and careful, however, if it were not for her Sun/Saturn square she would not accomplish anything, it keeps her grounded.

So the entire chart must be taken into account, not just this aspect or another. A transiting square to a natal trine can boost that trine, or a trine to a natal square can set off the square. Princess Diana dying at the end of her Sada Sati doesn't mean too much because she had death aspects in her chart and those were being set off by an eclipse. So don't worry too much about your Sade Sati or Kerry's. I do need to look at the upcoming eclipses for Kerry, Bush and the US

Yes, in the Fourth Turning, the cycle was disrupted during the Civil War. There was no hero generation as I recall. The best explanation the authors could offer was that the nation's leaders on both sides of the conflict failed to take a step back and create a compromise, so they started attacking each other. Sadly, it feels like our country may be heading for another period like this. And I do blame the Republicans if this is the case. If we are destined for another civil war, I do not know which side will win, but I do think that the Republicans are causing it and that history will stand by that assessment.

This is absolutely full of goodies!! I laughed out loud on more than one occasion, causing my husband to come find out what was so funny. I don't know how long it's been on-line but it's the first time I've seen it. If you're already read it, sorry for wasting this space.

Election Notes

by Alex Miller-Mignone

VOTE EARLY AND OFTEN

http://www.daykeeperjournal.com/alex2.shtml

Dave - Uranus went into Pisces and out of Aquarius for the last time in early 2003. when Uranus was in Sag, I was in grad school and began my socail work career. When Uranus was in Capricorn, I did very little astrology and basically birthed and took care of two young children. Very grounding experience!! When it went into Aquarius, my astrological life had a rebirth and continued to grow during that 7 years. I even got into using a computer!! Quite an event for an old techno-phobe like me. I noticed when it went into Pisces, I suddenly was far more likely to veg out watching TV movies with the kids, something I hadn't done since I was a kid. Part of me just wants to run away from it all and relax. This is really new for me and very Piscean.

Shade, that article by Sheila Samples was just fantastic. Thanks. She is such a good writer.

Thanks Sally!!! I have also have had many bad aspects regarding Saturn over the last few years. I have (according to western astrology) 4 planets in Gemini (the Sun, Moon, Mercury and Venus ) - and my ascendant is 19 degrees Cancer. So Saturn has been in my 12th house and just entered my first - and it has passed over my 4 closest planets. I didn't mean to say the only thing affecting either me or Kerry was Sadhe Sati - but I did want to understand Sadhe Sati on it's own. And some of the sites I've been to mention that this period is somewhat feared in India. Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions!

I have to run to yoga class right now, but thanks Dave and Chas for your comments about 2012 and the Fourth Turning.....I would offer a little of what my fear prompted me to ask about this end of cycle over the last few years concerning the 2012 end of chaos cycle, or timezonezero....(check out Terrence McKenna ) or fractal theory etc. But this is what I gleaned: humanity is going to leave the 4th age of conciousness and enter the 5th level of consciousness. And as Serena, the energy intuitive I worked extensively with over the last 4 years told me, YOU DON'T HAVE TO ALLOW YOURSELF TO BE INVOLVED IN THE DESTRUCTION - just work on your spiritual work, as this is what is needed. Develop your "watcher".....I had a hard time understanding that, all though events have proven to me that it is true.

Good web site also called Omega.com on much of this, although not with such good advice as mine!! hahahaha

Bhakti ! bang the drum !

anybody know about the 'stars' and the first pres debate: Sept. 30 at the University of Miami in Coral Gables, Fla (don't know time).

that should be critical because the first debate has the largest audience.

if this has already been discussed, please point me to the reference. thanks

ps. morganna, the 'death' motif around *co is so totally appropriate.

Mike all the debates are set for 9pm eastern

http://www.debates.org/

Here's a real fairy tale. During the beginning of tr Saturn in 12H 1993 the awakened yoga energy Kundalini Shakti, the goddess energy that releases the karmic patterens,cleansing, flushing all lifetimes from one's light body was reopened by my guru in 1991 and I also did some ascention energy work. My hidden family issues were starting to bubble up. I had been published, starting with UNICEF, since 1981 and all that was to change. My art style having a black outline around everything, kinda cartoony. It felt overwhelming to have so much hidden agendas become clear that the career needed to transform and take a back seat. I did think I was some hot stuff, a whiz kid and very charmed and lucky and yes, 'entitled'. trPluto also on my Venus, Pallas in the 8H around that time too.
During 1995-1998 no publishing work came my way. My rep encouraged a technique change. I was stubborn and had an art life with the current style so why change? Foolish me. 1996-7 I finally surrendered when all options were withering on the vine. My life got stripped down to the minimal. I felt more compassion for those that struggle hard.
During the Hale-Bopp comet 96-97 a beautiful white dove came into the gardens here in Brooklyn. I coaxed the dove to eat on the window ledge, even have a photo of it. I named this white dove Saraswati, the ancient Indian goddess who dresses in white and represents Wisdom, the intuition and heart, also the Arts and Sciences. When Hale -Bopp left, so did Saraswati. She taught me who really feeds me, the Universe. Now a white dove goes in every picturebook I paint. And I teach about this white dove of hope wherever I meet students , young and old, she represents Mother Nature.
Sold a book around that time '96/7 with an author, very well known and a friend, we worked as volunteer authors and illustrators for Learning Leaders, a charity for inner city schools. She saw a white dove in her garden in Queens the day she offered me her manuscript to paint.
Our book is dedicated to Saraswati, the messenger dove.
In 1997/8 Saturn on ASC my new style was introduced to the world in a new picturebook. This time my art had no black lines of my ego and rigidity, all was light-filled.
I've been struggling to get my career back to the old days of beginner's luck.
I cleaned out my family issues. 2004 Tr Saturn almost out of my 4H. Big Father issues (becoming my own best provider) have been healing and a steady, solid, simple career life that is humbled by who really feeds me.
I'm ready for that Saturn to hit the DSC at my Saturn return in 2010 coz it's uphill from there plus anchored from all the concious efforts I applied to stay in balance.

Not like babybush who never struggled, he might have to. Sowwy widdle georgie, that's the shakes.

Morgana, Daylight Savings, correcto?

http://www.debates.org/

Good question.

Presidential Debate Schedule

All debates are scheduled to begin at 9:00 p.m. E.T.

Well, it will be in Coral Gables Florida which is now EDT. Eastern Daylight 80W16 25N43

Daylight Saving Time begins for most of the United States at 2 a.m. on the first Sunday of April. Time reverts to standard time at 2 a.m. on the last Sunday of October. In the U.S., each time zone switches at a different time.

Although this has been a bad time for me - it has also made me stronger and more resistant to other people's energies. I used to be so eager to please people - even people I didn't respect. That was because of my pride. I found people could manipulate me by appealing to my ego. By giving or withholding approval they could totally control me like a puppet on a string. This was really made clear during a job I had when Saturn was on my Sun. My pride made me vulnerable. This horrible time has made me realize "pride is a handicap." If I allow people to have a negative opinion of me - I am free to live my life as I choose. I used to think if I explained myself well enough, everyone would like me. Now I realize most people don't really want or care to know my explainations. Everyone has their own agenda, and sometimes what is in a person's best interest may be to diss or otherwise denegrate me. It would be like if Kerry got his feelings hurt when Bush put him down, without realizing it was completely in Bush's interests to put him down. That's what I was like. (And in truth - still am too much) If I let other people affect me, then my pride becomes a prison. If I allow peple their opinions without "complaining or explaining" - then I am free. Of course - I'm still struggling - but I'm more aware of the problem. Saturn made me aware! I think Saturn makes us aware of what we need to change. For me it was my pride - for someone else it would be something different.

Maybe the first debate will be canceled??

MIAMI, WE HAVE A PROBLEM: A senior Republican official tells ABC News' Jonathan Karl that the first presidential debate, scheduled for Thursday in Miami, could be canceled unless there is a breakthrough soon in negotiations between the two campaigns and the Commission on Presidential Debates.

The only remaining sticking point, Karl reports, is the reluctance of the Commission on Presidential Debates to sign the agreement negotiated by the Bush and Kerry campaigns.

The commission and the campaigns have been negotiating a side letter the commission (and moderators) would sign instead of the agreement, but the Bush campaign finds the current draft of the letter too weakly worded.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/NotedNow/Noted_Now.html

Do any of you have a problem with this?

NEW YORK (AP) - CBS News has shelved a "60 Minutes" report on the rationale for war in Iraq because it would be "inappropriate" to air it so close to the presidential election, the network said on Saturday.

Just plucked it off sludge.

Quelle joie!

US Destroyers Deployed off North Korea

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/printer_092604Y.shtml

If my calculations are correct, for the first debate, 15 Taurus is rising with a 2 degree Aquarius MC. The moon is in the 12th at 8 Taurus.Neptune is in the 10th at 12 Aquarius and Rx. Saturn is sitting in the 3rd house at 26 Cancer. Venus is in an out-of-sign approachihg opp to Uranus along the 5-11 axis. The Jupiter, Mars, Mercury, Sun stellium straddles the 6th. I'm no expert but with the moon in the 12th and Neptune the most elevated planet, doesn't that kind of spell out illusion, deception, behind the scenes stuff. You can sure tell no astrologer chose this time for something this important.

Here's a good rant from Eric Alterman's blog http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3449870/

Here’s the Man.
CHARLES PIERCE
NEWTON, MA.

Hey Doc --
Riddle me this: if I forge a letter from U.S. Grant in which are described the events at Appomattox, and I sell it to someone, and I get caught and tried for fraud, and they prove that the document is fake, does that mean the Civil War never really ended?
Lord, I'm tired of the reign of pipsqueaks, aren't you?
As it happens, a profile of Dan Rather was one of the first things I did during my five years at GQ. The man has his flaws, always has had them, most notably a screaming insecurity about his place in the world. I suffered through "Courage," and through the Connie Chung Project, and through that awful moment in 2001 where he pronounced himself ready to "line up" with his Commander-In-Chief, an episode that seems to have slipped the mind of most people in the last couple of weeks.
However, as the great Max Cleland once said about John McCain -- the man has the holes in his T-shirt. To wit:
How silly did everyone look now who ridiculed him as Gunga Dan when he went to Afghanistan, especially the network bean-counters who cut back on foreign coverage and thus weren't ready when foreign coverage came back in 2001 and flew some jetliners into tall buildings? How stupid did THEY look that day? Hell, Rather only wore a funny hat.
How trivial did all the political wiseguys look who gave George H.W. Bush big points for "standing up" to Rather in 1988 when it was revealed that all that tea-cosy macho from Poppy only served to cover for the fact that he was lying his ass off about his involvement in Iran-Contra?
How ashamed must, say, Tim Russert be for his unseemly truckling to C-Plus Augustus when he sees those clips of Rather standing up against to Richard Nixon? Can you imagine Little Russ -- whom Big Russ warned not to traumatize the nation by asking the president whether he lied us into a war -- in a moment like that? Hell, have you ever seen him standing at all?
So, as Dan Rather becomes everybody's dinner for a while, it's important to remember that he had some very big moments in a media culture that was not yet so corrupted that it would give voice to liver-spotted bagmen like Pat Buchanan and William Safire. It's important to remember that he had these moments in a media culture that was not yet fully tolerating the likes of George Will, Conrad Black's poolboy, his cabana full of purloined debate materials. It's important to remember that he did so in the days when the media culture at least tried to keep crazy people at bay, where the likes of Jonah Goldberg would be covering the sewer commission in Plattsburgh, if he were lucky, and Ann Coulter would be screaming at people on a subway platform.
I'm a reporter. That's all I've ever wanted to be. So is Dan Rather, so I feel comfortable in saying that he screwed up in a very big way. But he doesn't deserve to have an aging hack like Dick Thornburgh as a professional proctologist, and he really doesn't deserve the cheap shots that are coming his way from people unfit to fasten his kaffiyeh.

Shade...thanks for that rant!

Teresa, while I was reading the debate astrology you posted I was going "neptune in the 10th, great...lots of creative dissembling?"

SuzieLiberal....really a very nice explanation of your self inspection....hey...I was BORN with Saturn conj. the Sun....! heheheheh

I have a friend in LA who is a witch, minister, writer, prolific author. She is publishing (soon) her latest book on spiritual/occult stories and has been gathering stories of life events (mine included). I met her online right after 9/11 (neither one of us believe in coincidences), and I was SO surprised to find that not only was her late husband a prominent film and storyboard artist (which is what I do) and teacher in LA, but that one of the first books I read on the occult in my early 20's when I lived in LA was by HER: Never Strike a Happy Medium, by Louise Huebner.

She sent me this email yesterday:

Judi if I didn't tell you about this the email below should inform you. Greg took a photo in the dark in a Lava Tube at Crater Lake and discovered an Angel in the developed photo. I sent this letter below to my aunt and uncle. But it should explain things. I've put it in my book next to you and your Angel.

Love,

Louise

Regarding: Greg's photo taken in total darkness in the Lava Tube in Crater Lake 
An Angel appeared in the shot.

OK:

The photo arrived with the Angel. It's very odd. There are five people grouped in the center of this photo Actually slightly off center. 

The size of the Angel's face is about 20 or 30 times larger than the face of one of the group. You could put at least 20 of the kid faces inside it's face. 

It is made up of clouds. Compared to the group, which is not cloud like. Just regular. 

It's as though the Angel is tipping her head from the left to the right slightly. 

Her hair is fluffed out. There is a sad sweet expression on her face. If anything I would say she has a slightly Nordic look. Maybe Swedish. (If a geographical type had to be noted.)

Her eyes are large but not excessively so. Her face is not chiseled. Maybe soft and slightly rounded. ( Slightly.)

Shooting out from the back of her tipped head and just above her shoulders near her shoulder blades is a group of light rays that can't be anything else but wings.

The group is not in the center of her body as Greg told me. Not near the heart and the stomach. I would say they are grouped slightly above the heart area so that the kids in the back row are in front of her mouth and just slightly below her nose.

To me it looks as though her eye color would be more of a light brown rather than light blue. The kind of brown that has some yellow in it. It's a soft color.

This image appeared on no other photos taken with the same film and the same camera. It showed up no where else in the packet of film developed. 

It is not the result of a glare. It is a person! Well not a person. It is clearly a spiritual entity. Amazing. 

When you hold the photo close you can see it clearly. But if you hold it at arm's length it is even clearer. And if you slightly tip it ...it is clearer yet. 

There is no mistaking it for any thing other than an entity. There is no mistaking it for anything other than an Angel. It's the wings. The wings cause it to be nothing else but an Angel. If there were no wings maybe you might think it was a ghost of a woman. This is shocking.

Love

Greg's Mom

In fact...somewhere...some place...once long ago...I think I saw this shape in a painting. It is a typical pose of an Angel with its head tipped. One that looks wistful and slightly saddened. I guess you might say compassionate looking.

The image of the Angel takes up most of the 4 X 6 Photo. It seems to have the focus on it and the kids are secondary and decorations for it.

It's very other worldly and other dimensional.

WV.....my first thought about the North Korea missle shield story was "October Surprise"....

WV....only I would have said "Quelle supriseeeeezzzzzz!!!!

Sally......

I asked this question waaay back in the previous thread yesterday, but I guess it got lost in the shuffle. I wondered if you had ever met Zoller? I ask because Liz Greene is mentioned in some of the lecture notes on his site, and I remember you saying a while ago that she had done your horoscope once. In any case, what is your opinion of his work?

Thank you,
Teg

Judi, I'm not too happy about the ruler of the 3rd house of communication (the moon) being in the hidden 12th either. I'd love to hear what Sally, Nancy or Morgana think about this.

Teg, thanks for the Zoller link info.

DEBATE I I have not done and in depth analysis on these charts as of yet, but a quick glance at Debate # I has Uranus the ruler of the Midheaven in a trine to Kerry's Venus, the ruler of his midheaven. The Sun is in an applying trine to Kerry's Mars, and Venus is conjunct Kerry's Jupiter (the Moon in Taurus and the Ascendant are both ruled by Venus and as noted Venus conjuncts Kerry's Jupiter.

Meanwhile Saturn is applying to a conjunct to Bush's Saturn, Moon in a square to Bush Ascendant, Mercury and Pluto. The big problems is the Neptune inconjunct to Bush and the US Sun, lots of obfuscation here, Pluto conj the Bush SN and oppose his Uranus, and Pluto oppose Kerry's progressed Saturn

Thanks, Sally. I was only looking at the event itself. Sounds promising for Kerry.

Charley Reese is at it again...

http://reese.king-online.com/Reese_20040922/index.php

Teg, I have not met Robert Zoller but I do know what astrologers in Europe think of his work. As for me and what I think of him let me say I don't read a ton of his stuff, I think he is a very intelligent astrologer. I would prefer not to make assessments on astrologers, we all have our opinions. I will only say that when an astrologer repeatedly puts down, or criticize other astrologers I have a hard time trusting their work. As in every other profession one will find big egos, and a fear of being wrong ever.

Most of the really good Astrologers realize they do not have the definitive answers to everything but are secure in the knowledge they do have. There was a famous astrologer in France (can't pronounce his name) he was 88 at the time and had been studying astrology since he was 10 and he said "no one ever knows all there is to know about astrology." And that is true, it's ever changing as our understanding increases.

I urge you to read all that you can and then as time goes on you will be able to make your own assessments.

An observation......

We've seen a whole lot of maps on tv........and increasingly so as time goes by. We know Afghanistan; we have Iraq burned into our consciousness; and we see the US as a big fat swath of red with pretty blue clusters around the edges, sometimes even a little blue tadpole hanging off the lower right side. And boy have we seen a LOT of that tadpole lately. I find myself praying that Florida is the center of the news now so we won't have to see that county map in November as our "map of the week".

I daresay the world is more geography-conscious now than it has ever been.

Which got me thinking. All my life I've had a very strong sense of my geographic location......as if I were forever standing on a map......and also that of anyone I'm communicating with (phone, net, letters, anything). Or anyone I read about. It is really constant, almost a layer of consciouness that is always present, this geographic sense.

I used to think that everyone had this......but at some point I realised that some people don't have this at all, and some only a little. I also discovered that many more men than women seem to see things with this overlay.......or underlay.

Just as a matter of curiosity, since there is an interesting and far-flung bunch in our community on this site,.....do some of you have this constant substratum in your brain?

And, Sally, might there be an astrological explanation for this constant sixth sense of geography?

Holocaust Survivors Sue Bush Family over Nazi Link
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/092604A.shtml

I expect we all have the same sense as homing pigions however some are more in tune and sensitive to their surroundings and the rest of the world. I myself am directionally challenged and am forever amazed when I find myself in the exact spot I was looking for. It sounds to me Teg as if you have a well developed gift for this. I am conscious of a geographic position of people and see the state or country I am talking to but I don't think I have the keen awareness you are talking about because I don't think about it. Very interesting talent and certainly worthful

Wow PatC, this is something. I find it interesting that Prescott, George HW and George W all have their progressed Sun at 9 degrees Virgo and I've wondered what the up start of that would be when Uranus opposes that point. Maybe this is it.

I'm a newbie here, have devoured all the posts and am learning so much. With Neptune transiting my Sun - and hitting my 7th as soon as it leaves the Sun - I'm resuming the spiritual quest I gave up 25 years ago.

To answer Teg's question, I'm female and have a strong sense of place, also a good sense of direction (can't read a map but generally know that if I keep going "this way" I'll get there.) My father and my son also had/have an excellent sense of direction, also strong a sense of place. We all have a strong Saturn.

And then, Teg and Donna, there are those poor souls with Mercury/Neptune conjunct in the 3rd (my mother). No sense of direction and can get lost if they deviate even one foot from their accustomed route. But somehow she always gets where she needs to be. LOL

Teg,
I too have a strong sense of map / direction.
When I was 10, going home to South Jersey ( 60 miles), with my Mother Grandmother, & Aunt, when we I shouted out a wrong turn. My Mother was skeptical, but reluctantly listened,
and soon discovered I was right.
My Dad had a desk full of road maps, & my Brother & I invented games using them.............
Aah how much we've lost through TV!
When reading a novel, I prefer the ones with a map drawn in the front of the book & refer to it while reading................................................
All that & a dime won't get me a Starbucks coffee!
I have neptune in virgo in the 4th house, trine sun 12th Taurus, trine mars in capricorn, 8th.
( pragmatically self sufficient) Do you have anything similar??
Keep the Blue light shining!!!!!
PatQOP

Well I for one have a very weak sense of geography and no sense of direction. But what I lack in geography, I make up for with my keen intuition and insightful perceptions. Just don't ask me to intuit my way from Chicago to New York or percieve my way to the laundromat!

* Why are [necropubs] So Violent? - All of these images are of [necropubs] physically trying to stop people from expressing their differences. http://www.angryfinger.org/archives/why_are_republicans_so_violent.html

The answer is easy... 'cause they're merely programmed biounits... much less humanbecomings. Not only that, but they're raised in necrozoos which teach violence & no manners. Ebrybody hates having 'em live next door... really runs down the neighborhood. ;O)

This post was pluto-inspired.

The wife of a friend of mine is working on the team preparing Kerry for the debates. Here are a few bits my friend passed along to me about the debate negotiations. (It seems that James Baker, the mastermind of the stolen election has had pretty much his way with Vernon Jordan):

1) there will be no unscripted questions. Anyone that begins to ask an unscripted question will have their microphone turned off.

2) there will be no follow-up questions. Anyone who begins to ask a follow-up question will have their microphone turned off.

3) the camera will not be allowed to pan away from the speaker. We will not, for example, be able to see Kerry's reactions when Bush says something, nor will we be able to see the audience reaction.

This obviously will not be in any sense a real debate. It is nothing but a carefully scripted exchange of sound-bites--sounds to me like a perfect set-up for the Bush team to continue their lies and machinations. As with the debates with Gore the Bush team will probably try to diminish expectations for their candidate, allowing the complying media to then exclaim that Bush did better than expected. I'm not holding out much hope that the "debates" will bring any clarity to this misguided nation.

Strangely, however, my friend tells me that the Kerry camp is actually very upbeat and optimisitic about the election. They claim the long term numbers (not the short snap-shot polls) show Kerry leading in most of the important swing states and leading by a 2-1 margin among younger voters (split by Bush and Gore).

I find myself wondering more and more why Kerry would even want to win the election. He has one helluva mess to turn around. What is the likely scenario in Iraq? Does anybody really see the possibility of an American "victory" there? The war never should have been launched in the first place, and now it is looking more and more like a certain defeat. We are either going to be in there for a long time to come or we will have to withdraw. The tragic irony is that if Kerry wins he will be the one who has to ask the last man to die for a mistake. Can you imagine Faux News nightly reports as Iraq slides further into chaos and the number of US troops killed doubles and triples what we see now? I'm sure they will hammer Kerry mercilessly about being weak. I'm sure we will be constantly reminded about how well things were going (relatively speaking) when Bush was President and how he surely would have finished the job.

On top of that if Kerry wins he'll be in the hot seat when the economy does collapse. Former Fed chief Paul Volker has said that there is a 75% chance of economic "meltdown" in the next five years.

I saw the documentary "The Corporation" last week. They used an interesting metaphor to describe the current situation. They showed a number of clips of film from the pioneering days of aviation, before the Wright brothers flight, were poorly designed craft are pushed off of cliffs and instead of taking flight are smashed to bits on the ground. The filmmakers suggest our whole corporate culture is like one of these ill-fated machines. We've already leapt off the cliff and are hurtling downwards but just can't see the ground coming yet. The Iraq war is like that too. Most of America is still in denial, hoping that we will still somehow be able to turn the thing around. But the fatal leap has already been made even though we can't see the ground coming up yet. The Republicans can't even tell that we're falling. The rest of us can see that we are definitely not airborn, and some can even see the ground coming up fast. We're hoping that Kerry can jump into the cockpit and find some way to turn this thing around, but maybe, just maybe it would be better in the long run if . . .

Ahh no. We can't even go there yet can we?

this ones way out on "right field"

http://www.nbc10.com/news/3759873/detail.html

Pat Qop

Rereading the discussion from last article and saw Barbara's nice comments, ending with "let focus the energy we've all drawn down to this bright blue earth."

The Earth is BLUE!!!! I didn't make that connection. Let's do it! Let's take Barbara's advice!

Sally.........

Now I am well and truly disturbed. Because of your note re: the Bush's Progressed Suns at 9 Virgo with Uranus approaching. My Moon, alas, is also at 9 Virgo. And it is the only earth in my whole chart. Should I be unnerved?

Pat, you mentioned your Neptune in the 4th as part of a grand trine in Earth. My Virgo Moon is my only Earth, and it's in the 3rd house.

Donna, I've never really gotten a grip on what is a "strong Saturn", so I can't give you an answer.
For what it's worth, my Saturn is inconjunct my Sun and sextile my Jupiter, but I don't know if that is "strong" or not. (Obviously, there are really huge gaps in my astrological knowledge.)

Timothy...........that was a terrific post. You expressed exactly what my fears are too. I have this awful feeling that Kerry might become a kind of sacrificial lamb for the rest of us. I feel a kind of pity, and empathy, and concern towards him........and the worst of it is, I'm not at all sure his sacrifice will be enough to save us. Sorry to be so negative...........but I am torn in two as to whether it would be better for the world to have him elected or not. Will his election simply mean an even longer-drawn-out period of pain and anxiety for this planet? Maybe better to have Bush and get the cateclysm over sooner.

Dave.......I loved your comment. (And I can't find my way to the laundry either! It's the one geographic location that continues to elude me!)

No Teg you should not be desturbed. This has to do with the Bush family dynasty, not just the aspect. It has to do with all three suns progressed to Bush Mars and with Uranus opposed and squaring the US Uranus (and they are representive of the US right now) would indicate some kind of shift or even end to the dynasty as political.

I do not read personal charts on this blog, for a couple of reasons. 1. I don't have the complete chart 2 this is mundane astrology and relates to the US and her leaders and their impact on events in the US. 3 it isn't really a teaching site and 4 I do readings for a living and it would take too much time to devote to everyone's chart and I would want to be fair.

I will try to post a list of books available to those who wish to study astrology.

So when you see an interpretation it's for the Nation, events and the leaders and has little to do with them as a person, except as a symbol of the collective and their impact on the events which they have an effect. I don't want anyone to misunderstand the reading of a single person as relating to themselves because it doesn't.

Sally....

Thank you for your response re: Zoller. What is the opinion of him in Europe? You didn't say, but I gather it was negative. As for me, I wasn't thinking of him as an astrologer, but more as an historian. And I don't think anyone else has done that kind of work and translation on classical and medieval astrology. That's the part that intrigues me.

I did see some general comments on his site about the incompetence of a lot of astrologers, but none directed to any specific astologers. And I have to say I concur in his view that a lot are pretty incompetent. I had a wonderful astrologer unil his death about 6 years ago. I was never completely sure whether his knowledge derived from astrology, or the tarot, or something else altogether. But I will say he was wonderfully wise, and I valued his advice tremendously.

After his death, I tried to find another astrologer, but after seeing 4 or 5 I gave up, and pretty much forgot about astrology until I tripped over your site a month or so ago. What really soured me in my search before then was that I quickly realised that, even with my scanty knowledge, I could probably have hung out my shingle and done a far better job of counseling people than the 5 or 6 astrologers I tried out. What really got me was the last one I consulted. I realised halfway through the session that she was quoting Liz Greene verbatim and at great length. I pointed this out to her, and she got really miffed. That was that for me and astrology for several years. I fear that there are truly a lot of charlatans around. I assumed that that was the situation Zoller's comments were directed to. But in any case, all I know of him is what I could gather from the summaries of articles on the site, and it's really his talents as a translator and historian that interest me. I really want that translation of the treatise on the Arabian Parts!

It is so nice to have you to ask these questions of, Sally. I really appreciate your generosity in sharing your knowledge and experience with all of us. You do remind me very much of my lost astologer.......and I am so glad to have found you! You seem to have the same combination of straightforwardness and clarity and wisdom that he had. And I feel so comfortable in relying on that.

Several lovely astropolitical articles at Aquila News. http://www.aquilaink.com/aquilanews.html

Thank you yet again, Sally. I would love to have your advice on the best books to study and to rely on. I've read a lot, and so far, I think that Rob Hand and, to a lesser extent, Stephen Arroyo, are the ones I've valued most. I really look forward to your recommendations.

Thank you again,
Teg

Timothy.......

I haven't seen you post here before. I hope you do often. I have to tell you that one sentence in your post cut straight to my heart:

"The tragic irony is that if Kerry wins he will be the one who has to ask the last man to die for a mistake".

That was a very perceptive observationn by Timothy, and, thank you, Teg for pointing it out, as I missed it in my quick scanning.

Regarding good astrology books, I think Mike listed a few a couple of articles back. I tried to locate them but couldn't. Mike, might you post them again? And, Sally, I would especially appreciate your input on astro books.

I read on DU that in Ohio, there is a 250% increase in newly registered Democratic voters over 2000 but only a 25% increase in Republicans. In FL, the increase for Dems was something like 60%, with only a 12% increase for Repugs (I still think there are good Republicans but far too many Repugnant ones.) Anyway, those are the kind of statistics that get me excited.

Power to the People!

That was me!

contrary to religious notions, the world is not coming to an end, we're not fated for a return to the stone age, and kerry SHOULD be president in order to correct things before they get out of hand. if he is not elected or, if elected and not quickly impeached and replaced by a realist, we are in trouble. i find all sorts of evidence (here and elsewhere) that he's going to texas and toast some weenies.

lets remember, the 'the end is near' has been around as long as we've had religions that need to scare the dickens out of us in order to gain membership.

"lets remember, the 'the end is near' has been around as long as we've had religions that need to scare the dickens out of us in order to gain membership." I loved that, Mike... thank you! ;O)

Want Blue States? Act Blue - seems affiliated with Daily Kos - reminds me of MoveOn

http://actblue.com/

Timothy, I found your post quite through-provoking, as usual. Kerry is a very interesting personality, is he not? What would motivate an individual who could esily have avoided it to sign up for duty in Vietnam and then to choose the swift boats? Once he got to Washington, he took on the Iran-Contra mess and the BCCI, and exposed the unsavories in the Reagan administration, many of whom are now in Smirky's administration. Repercussions of his taking on the BCCI are still occuring, particularly in the UK at this moment with great potential for extending to the US. During those two episodes (Iran-Contra and BCCI) he was taking on some very powerful enemies. When you consider the use of anthrax to intimidate and subdue members of the Senate in the immediate aftermath of 9/11, the deaths by small plane of some politicians, the unanswered questions surrounding the assassinations which robbed this country and the world of great leadership (JFK, RFK, MLK), well you just got to wonder what motivates Kerry to be so willing to take 'em on.

I don't know whether it's bravery, some fascination with tempting fate, desire to finish what was begun with the Iran-Control and BCCI investigations, incredible love of country and honor, compelling astrological aspects, etc. I certainly don't see any reason for me to busy myself with psychologizing about the man. I do know that we are at a great crossroads and that a Dem win--at least in the Senate--and with us continuing to press those elected for responsible leadership (Pelosi's stated support for AIPAC the other week nearly drove me bonkers, for example) offers us the people the opportunity to re-confirm and re-energize this country's pursuit of the ideals envisioned by our founders.

And now to wind this down. Kerry is smart. Whether he's offering himself up as sacrificial lamb or champion of freedom and justice, whether he's flirting with certain danger to prove he can win, whether he wants to finish what he began with Iran-Contra and BCCI . . . I have no idea. My focus is on we the people taking back sufficient power (whether the WH, the Senate, etc.) that we can at least bring the fascist juggernaut to a halt and either immediately or eventually get back on course.

Many thanks.

Shylurker,

Thank you... you're going to have to get a new handle, lady, now that your shyness has worn off! Your comments resonate the sense of history you have as well as a clear view of the present... imho... appreciate your taking the time to make a case for Kerry as a strong willed advocate for justice, which is how I see him... namaste

some interesting predictions..

http://www.aquilaink.com/newlatestoutrage.html

Not for the faint hearted, but more of a "real' view of what goes on in Iraq.

http://www.warandpiece.com/blogdirs/001144.html

Iraq is becoming daily more chaotic and murderous, says Richard Beeston.
DVDs of beheadings are selling in their thousands. Westerners are hated and live in constant fear Baghdad.

You might have thought that sitting down to watch a series of filmed executions would become tedious after the tenth unfortunate victim is dragged before the camera to be slaughtered like a sheep. After all, most of the characters do not change much.

more.....

Jo, What a compliment! I'll be traipsying around with my head in the clouds all day and probably on into next week. Thank you!

Those progressed Smirky I, II and III's suns in Pisces is v-e-r-y interesting, too, in light of the upcoming Uranus opposition, and the BCCI court stuff now in progress in the UK.

Sometimes, the dice roll just right.
May this be one of those times.

Oops! Those progressed Smirk suns are in Virgo, 9 degrees according to Captain Sally. I believe Uranus comes up opp in April, 2005. Hmmmm.

(A lovely new web site with possiblities for all caring activists. ;O)

Beverley B Ferguson, a longtime member of the Planetary Awakening Network, is setting up a subsidary list for PAN and other people who are interested. It is called the Whole World Watching, she has already set up a webpage for this. For those who are interested, the info to subscribing or sending info to the list is below.

From Beverley: I feel that all over the world there are things taking place that only those effected ever hear about. The mass media is not "free" in most places & so things happen & no one knows. This secrecy allows things to happen that might not con't if the "whole world is watching".

As far as I know, there is no mechanism in place, except the PAN alerts, to get info in the form of alerts to people worldwide. Once the info is known, it is up to each individual to decide what, if anything, they wish to do about it. My intention is just that we, citizens of the world, have a way to share info directly with each
other.

* WHOLE WORLD WATCHING http://WholeWorldWatching.org

MIKE: thank you for say it again and it cannot be said often enough "the world is not coming to an end" It is however going through an adjustment and that adjustment is creating fear. For some it's the fear of terrorists, or economic crisis, for others it is a fear of Bush losing and Kerry winning or visa versa.

At the bottom of these fears is the fear of change, the fear that we won't be ok, but change is upon us and the challange is to find a way to meet it and to rejoice that we are ok today and to send positive energy to those who are in harms way. I think about how much energy we have all put into our "fears" over the last 4 years and yet we are all still here, all still trying to meet the demands of the day, take care of our families and jobs. We all (the collective) have to find a way to be positive agents for change and how to eliminate as much fear as possible.

On fundies and conservation: I'd like to share a very disturbing trait which the Fundies seem to have regarding using our limited natural resources.

We have an evangelical fundamentalist at the office. This is a very immature 21-year old who loves to read the bible out loud during lunch "just in case" any of us "sinners" need some "saving".

Most of the time I'm just annoyed by it, but I was surprised last week when she said that "we're supposed to use natural resources like petroleum, trees, etc.

Then she mentioned something about using it before "the end". Of course, she's referring to the Armageddon when Christ will lift her out of her clothes while the rest of us get "Left Behind".

Looks like the "Conservatives" are not conservative at all! They want to use every last drop of oil and every toothpick of a tree for their own selfish desires before it's too late!

Of course, there is no Armageddon coming. Unfortunately for them, we'll all be here, TOGETHER cleaning up the messes that they have caused. This is escapism, projection and dangerous avoidance of responsibilities at its very worst.

There is another young lady in the office who's been reading the "Left Behind" books. Like the other Fundamentalist Fool, she looks longingly forward to the day she will be "Raptured" (sounds like those Raptors in the Steven Spielberg movie, doesn't it?).

Her eyes become misty with longing as she realizes she won't have to worry about her Visa debt which has now become a huge burden on her $11/hour customer service rep job. Her weight has really ballooned over this past year.

But, no matter. Once the Big Day comes, all these issues will be a thing of the past. All her problems on earth will disappear into the mists of time, and she can look forward to eternity in heaven.

This kind of thinking is very dangerous. I'm worried about this girl because she's a co-worker and a friend (unlike Miss Big Mouth, above). Shame on these charlatans (Publishers of the Left Behind series)for encouraging millions for abdicating their responsibilities and retreating into escapist thinking.

Cliss, you put experience on things I have been thinking about. Like for instance, it seems a deficit in the trillions means nothing to a nation rampant in credit card debt. They don't seem to register this responsibility in their own individual lives, so why should the collective debt matter?

As for the rapture, I say this, I got news for them, they HAVE been left behind. Deal with it. Those worthy have all ready been chosen and are gone.

How's that for a nasty Saturn? Me, with the Sun opp, moon square it. Reality bites. Meanwhile, over on Political Astrology yahoo groups, they have a thread on Michael Moore and assasins, all with the Saturn/Sun opp or square. Moore obviously being an assasin in the shape of words and cinema. But wait, John Kerry has Sun opp Saturn, with the moon thrown in as well. Ummmmm, maybe he has a chance after all........

Oh Cliss - I can so relate to what you wrote about the Evangelical co-workers in your office! My daughter was just dumped by her boyfriend who has been going steady with her for over a year. The parents belong to a southern Evangelical church that preaches the rapture and they think it's coming soon, the mother devours all those "left behind" books. They have told their son that our daughter will, because she does not share their religious beliefs, hold him back from being raptured up with them all. Apparently we are to be "left behind" so he is not to have anything to do with us again. They have already pulled their three other sons from public school and are homeschooling them and have threatened to pull this high school aged boy out also next year if he does not obey them and their church rules. They have made the boy scared to death of all this. My husband's secretary at work is another "believer" who also thinks she and her husband do not have to worry about bills or credit card debt as the rapture is coming ...more "left behind" fanatics. They have so much debt creditors are calling this woman all day at work ... they face bankruptcy and yet still are charging everything they can. Another girl at his office, another "Left Behind" reader, has gained 50 pounds in one year ... she and her family are "celebrating" the coming rapture by feasting every Sunday with their church group and she has told my husband that none of us should care about our weight or other things as when they are raptured they will be at their most beautiful. It's like madness here ... people are building "rapture ready" churches. I think the Publishers of these books have a lot to answer for by deluding these people into thinking they should shurk their responsibilities and rely on a book's message.

* Inside dusty, barricaded camps around Iraq, grps of [ameriCO] troops in between missions are gathering around screens to view an unlikely choice from the US box office: "Fahrenheit 9-11," Michael Moore's controversial documentary attacking the commander-in-chief.

"Everyone's watching it," says a Marine corporal at an outpost in Ramadi that is mortared by insurgents daily. "It's shaping a lot of people's image of [bushaholic]." ... http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0921/p02s02-usmi.html

Just to be clear, what I wrote above was written very tongue in cheek. Living with Saturn up one's wazoo natally one's whole life is hard enough, without being sited as an assasin. Ok, so I entertain thoughts of Tecumseh curse, oh well, my bad.

Regarding the "rapture" postings above, I had no idea any of this was happening? The Left Behind books? Not a clue they even existed. Makes me glad to live in the (basically) liberal paradise that is The Village in NYC. LOL

What's fascinating to me, of course, is that after these Fundies who believe in the Rapture and continue to support this Administration that is intent on bankrupting our Country actually do go broke and realize that, uh oh, maybe I WON'T be "raptured" and should start paying more attention to this debt, etc. guess who will have to help them out? You guessed it! All of us who were to allegedly be Left Behind.

But by then, and because of the Bush Cartel's selfish, short-sighted decisions, the Government won't have any money left to give them the food and shelter they'll need.

Talk about a major-league karmic lesson! Sheesh! Now just how strong would Neptune have to be in a chart to be able to carry THOSE blinders or explain away THAT delusion?

Thank you, Mrs. Edwards
by DemFromCT
Sun Sep 26th, 2004 at 11:37:26 GMT

Firstly, to Elizabeth Edwards, who wrote:

"First, on blogging, a couple of notes. Read Kos and found out about the NY Times piece on blogging -- thorough piece. I have traveled this road so long moving with the masters (in order to read them) from the acidic edge of newsgroups to the more definitive personalities of blogs. Today, too, Ed Cone's blog sent me to Mr. Sun (a new one for me) who was commenting on the (Greensboro) News and Record blog. He wrote, and it is true about this blog as well: "The blogs sound like the people I choose as friends: smart, informed, funny, curious, and imperfect." The genius of it is completely captured there. Even coverage by the NYT won't change 'em."

[DemfromCT]
You, your husband, and your family are going to be a breath of fresh air in DC, where genuine is going to trump artificial. This morning's Times has a reminder of the Imperial Presidency's Madison Avenue roots going back to Nixon.

'When it was published in 1969, "The Selling of the President" caused a scandal. Its title was a sardonic riff on Theodore White's revered "Making of the President" series, and its jacket image was an irreverent image of President Nixon superimposed on a package of cigarettes. A review in this paper deemed the book enough to "make us fear for the future of the Republic." The Saturday Review called for a renewed commitment to high school civics education to stop "the hidden persuaders from running off with politics."

[DemfromCT]
Nine election cycles later, however, as the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth troll across the nation's airwaves, "The Selling of the President" has undergone a strange transformation. In an era when campaigns are increasingly based on unselling the opponent through vicious negative advertising, the idea of actually trying to sell the president seems almost refreshing.

Oh, and tell your husband we appreciate all the hard work in the small media markets that the lazy 'big-time' reporters won't deign to cover. We know what he's up to, and just because the national gossip columnists posing as reporters won't deign to stay in a Motel 6 and therefore haven't a clue, we appreciate the fact that KE '04 is going to represent all Americans, not just less than half the country.

You should give more interviews. You're an asset to the campaign. Just saying.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/9/26/73726/5096

What's amazing is that the fundies are interested in any kind of schooling or jobs at all!! They could be spending full time at feasting, gaining weight, & moaning their prayers. WhaddaHOOT!!

Teg....as Sally said above, she reads charts for a living! She's highly recommended! Judi

http://www.sundayherald.com/45046

Reagan junior warns Bush: ‘stop hijacking my father’s reputation’

snip--
Reagan is quietly hopeful of a Kerry comeback, but is realistic about the impact the media has on the campaign. “Kerry has made a slight comeback in the polls, but it doesn’t really matter how many people watch the debates. When Gore and Bush debated four years ago, Gore did a better job, but the press focused on his mannerisms and his make-up and ignored Bush’s lies. The American media is not healthy.

"Shade"...it seems such a perfect handle for a Saturn person....I should be Judi Gemini in the Shade myself. But hey! We age slowly! There are some benefits....

The only think I can say about the Rapture is 2012 and the end of an age ..... when all the people on this planet still living a life of the "past", without growth, will incarnate to another planet en masse to continue their wicked ways. That planet will be a fourth level consciousness planet. The left behinds here will be the 5th level consciousness, and a thousand years of peace shall reign.

At least, that SHOULD happen! Whooo EEEEEE!

And give 'em a NEW planet to despoil, judi gem?!? I hope not... one's quite enuf! ;O)

Yes,

I think this is an age of growth and transformation. And with regard to Uranus moving out of Aquarius and into Pisces in early 2003, that makes a lot of sense in terms of the timing for some major transformations in my life.

Dave, Uranus, if I remember right, moved into Pisces the day B* went into Iraq, or pretty damn close to it...

Joanna...well then, they'll just have to live on earth in a different dimension....the dimension where their world is as they have made it....! Not a pretty picture!

Sally said somewhere in a previous thread that the "veils are thinning".....I heartily concur.

Another friend just sent this....enjoy....!
KERRY WINS BY A LANDSLIDE!!!!

How does that image make you feel?

We need to get that "winning feeling"... Joy! Elation! Celebration!

Visualize Kerry & Edwards standing on the podium, arms upraised in victory! Fireworks! Bells ringing! Create your own imagery.....

Quantum physics has proven that the expectations of the observer actually affect the outcome of their experiment...and WE can affect the outcome of this election with our expectations and visualizations.

Of course we need to keep working tirelessly for Kerry's campaign, AND we also need to hold a Victory Vision.

"Emotion" is "energy in motion" and energy is neutral. So, use your emotion, your energy, wisely. Getting upset and demoralized by Bush's fear tactics and behavior only feeds his cause. Every time those thoughts bring you down...empower your most vivid image of   "KERRY WINS BY A LANDSLIDE!!!!"

PLEASE, pass this along. The more of us that visualize victory, the more powerful it is!

"well then, they'll just have to live on earth in a different dimension....the dimension where their world is as they have made it....! Not a pretty picture!"

Ahh, a great take imo, dear Seesta! They'll drop down, down, down into the Cosmic Compost Pile to be recycled. Cool. In some "future" millennium, that'll start 'em out gardening.

Judi Gemini,

This has already begun. Many souls are not coming in now that desire to. Many family patterns are being broken. The time for learning together, in many instances, is over. Many souls that are coming into this existence now, and have been for some time, are of higher vibration than were a few generations ago. Only those higher souls, who have a higher, more refined type of vibrations, are being admitted. So, as those who die from this time and wish to come back from now on, if their vibrations are not more of a refined nature, they will find it more difficult.

Abilene, Joanna....I once heard a description of the world thus...it is a hologram, and we all are contributing to the picture...well, that is oversimplified, but know what I mean....

When I had my first contact with my "angel" in 1991, I had been "worked with" for a year to "refine" my energies. If I wasn't such a Saturn person, I would have progressed at a much better pace...but....I am grateful for what I have been able to do.

Thank you for that insight on the re-entering souls....it is QUITE enlightening...

So the door may shut on the Cartel, huh? Except as compost, I am liking that!

On Ron Reagan....hooray for him. However, I don't think much of the Reagan legacy in the first place. But I do like that he is speaking up on current subjects and not letting these **people get alway with their easy lies. Too bad this ran in Britain rather than here.

And good on Elizabeth Edwards. Straight talk....what a shock to the other half of the country. I'm sure the term for female dogs will be used "liberally" by the rethugs.

Great post/info from Timothy....many voices, many visions....

Hurricane Jeanne is flooding the cableways. The Florida version of Hurricane Jeanne, that is. Anderson Cooper and Joe Scarborough show their manhood by doing standups while being buffetted by 100 m.p.h. wind gusts. Reporters from the eye of the storm gee whiz about how nothing is happening in that circle of calm. It is unclear to me what use television is (with power out in most of the affected areas) except to make the rest of us feel smugly secure in our own homes; and, because hurricanes are quite frightening, as anyone who has been through a big one can tell you, to give us a frisson of high drama by remote control. (Radio is the real friend to the afflicted in a hurricane zone.)

Of course one feels great sympathy for those Floridians who have been hit four times in 44 days by high wind, driving rain and surging seas. But the Bush Brothers have shown their solidarity, states of emergency have been declared, FEMA is on the case, money is available for cleanup and rebuilding. Not everyone will be made whole, but most will survive with their normal lives restored.

Not so in Haiti, where 1,500 are dead and the homeless are beyond count. The tragedy in Haiti is unspeakable, but unlike Florida, Haiti is quite literally off our radar.

Haiti has not been on our radar since the U.S.-assisted ouster of Jean-Bertrand Aristide earlier this year. Its political and social chaos has not been above-the-fold news. Our national commitment to Haiti is a joke; the despair of some of our lawmakers in this regard is scarcely acknowledged. And even CARICOM, the Caribbean Community, is not rushing to Haiti's aid, given its questions about the legitimacy and competence of Gérard Latortue, installed leader of Haiti's "interim" government.

Britain has sent some relief supplies. So has Chile. CARE is on the ground, and has launched a $3 million appeal to support its own brave effort in that tortured land.

From the CARE website:

Haiti is one of the world's poorest counties, ranking 150 out of 175 countries on the United Nations human development index, worse than Sudan and Zimbabwe. Half the Haitian population is undernourished, a percentage higher than Angola and Ethiopia.

Haiti is our near neighbor. If we are the honorable, altruistic, morally superior people we pretend to be, where is our humanitarian response to the dire situation of Haiti's population? Of course Haiti doesn't have anything we want. And Haitians have nothing, literally nothing -- except their fundamental rights as human beings, that which we like to proclaim for ourselves as God-given "unalienable rights" to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. (We forget Haiti's history as a freedom-loving country, one that declared its independence in 1804.) Or do they have even that? Perhaps, just as we don't willingly share our resources with people who have nothing to offer in return, we don't grant them their common humanity either.

We sure as hell don't grant them television time, and their story goes untold, their tragedy unheeded.

by Ellen Dana Nagler
http://www.bopnews.com/archives/001702.html#1702

Judi Gemini,

Remember the earth is a being. It is not a thing. It is changing and becoming something else as previously planned and is within its own development. As this development changes and continues forward, all must go forward with it or all must go elsewhere. They will not be lost or doomed in any way. They will simply continue on their learning experience somewhere else where their vibrations do match. It will be on another plane, or another place or another planet. It will just not be on Earth.

Labour delegates force Iraq debate

Matthew Tempest and Tom Happold
Sunday September 26, 2004

The Labour conference will debate the withdrawal of British troops from Iraq this week, after local party delegates voted for it to be included on the agenda.
The result of the party's priorities ballot could be profoundly embarrassing for Tony Blair if delegates vote for an early pullout after Iraq's January elections.

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/labour2004/story/0,14991,1313225,00.html

Jo, I've been watching the hurricane coverage and I don't feel "smugly secure" here in tornado alley. I have close relatives in Florida and I rely on cable news, usually MSNBC, to give me some idea of what they are going through although I do question why it is necessary for anyone to give live reports in 100+ mph winds.

Teresa,

Those are not my words... the comments are written by Ellen Dana Nagler who blogs at BOP... my intent was to bring attention to the plight of the Haitians who have already lost 1,500 people... and the fact that the American media has given no coverage to their situation.

I am having trouble posting today, is anyone else? Not the usual posting to this web site, but my computer is acting out....letters dropping out, words running together etc, just as Chas posted was happening to him several threads back....just getting coherent sentences is hard. I have to go back and add letters, etc....kind of excruciating, as it all runs together. Like I am under attack from keyboard gremlins...or is it spywear? I have a Mac...thought I was immune!

Abilene, I didn't put too fine a point on the earth being an "it"...I meant (in my mind, and I am not really very into this area) "it" being a hologram of our ideas and illusions about life on earth. Fancy that, like everyone is a mind reader of my imagery....a kind of "no boundries" sort of person I am...I also admit I am not tuned into earth/gaia/movement.

This blog is a hologram, too!

letting me do astrology is like leaving a monkey in a room with a loaded gun. i was inspired by the more recent posts for some reason. i looked at Nancy Reagan’s chart on StarIQ out of curiosity (desperation really). i’m just wondering if she’s got something up her sleeve with an endorsement. She has Mercury in her 12th house conjuncting her Asc and NN in Libra ('sweet justice').

Asc- 15 Libra T.Mercury Conj 10/6&7
Node – 23 Libra T.Mercury Conj 10/11&12

Venus and Mars conjunct her ASC on 10/17 & 19 respectively.

que pasa?

Mike, my 2 cents....you noticed this transit with Nancy , do you have a feeling about it?

if our Asc is our projection into the world, T Mercury might be about speaking our mind .... publically. Then Mercury going over the node right after that might be her making a commitment to "where we need to be in this life"....will that be speaking to truth, or speaking to preserving the illusion of Ronnie's Reign? With Venus and Mars there, certainly there will be enormous attention and charisma is she does publically make a statement...she will be energized. Ron Jr. sure is!

Jo, over at DU they are quoting sources as saying up to another 900 are unaccounted for in Haiti and that the U.S. Embassy contributed a whopping $60,000 to the relief effort. Why add insult to the grievous injuries the Haitians have suffered due to hurricanes, following close on the heels of the U.S. invasion? OMG!

Mike, just make sure that gun is loaded with blanks, ok? (Actually, I had visions of Saddam's gun right off the Oval Office, but stopped that thought before I went too far with it.) Ouida May is still not guiding my spirit the way she's supposed to. Lemme know if you hear when she'll be down from Weed.

BTW, anybody check out Merriman over at StarIQ today? He is doing some re-thinking.

Mike, she could also be receiving a message or just have a couple of nice days. Do you know if these transits are triggering a natal or progressed aspect?

judi gemeni, thanks for the comment. i hope she does it. it would be sooooo theatrical.

shylurker, ouida may is headed your way! she's recovered from her international adventures and is looking forward to seeing her soul-child shylurker about 10PM EDT today!!! enjoy

Oh, otay. I was figuring on motoring up to Weed to fetch her. I haven't seen Mt. Shasta in over a year. Ouida May is probably soaking up all those spiritual vibes and rays and will be back to her old self when she returns.

Jo, got out of my lazy Sunday mode long enough to find a direct source for the quote of the dead and missing in Haiti--and the U.S. government's "humanitarian" monetary gesture in response.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3691226.stm

Mike, I think you could be right about Nancy. I believe we are going to see some surpising endorsments for Kerry in the next few weeks. Did you know that last week Jay Leno came out for Kerry?

Shylurker,

thanks for the link...

Abilene,

That is astounding about Leno... perhaps he found 'himself'... old self, that is... thanks for the info...

Have been trying to post all day but power flickers have prevented. It looks like the worst of the storm has missed NE Florida. We have had no problems except those here and there short power outages. There have been lots of tornado alerts but none just where we live.

I'm so gratified to read the posts about Haiti. By the Almighty, if we don't come to their aid, what kind of people are we?

I hope this won't be all deleted again before I can post it, but will try. A few days ago I attended an important but dull forum wherein candidates for county commission and part of the state legislature responded to questions from a few (a very few) local citizens. The questions had to do with quality of water, the paving over of wild habitat, and what is (perhaps comically) called "managed growth." It occured to me that these poor folks were trying to hold back the ocean with a sponge. The problem--clearly, simply--is that Florida's fragile eco-system cannot sustain the population now present--let alone "growth" in the amounts now moving here. On the other hand, this being a state in the United States, we can't put a gate across the border.

Remember the '60s and early '70s when we worried about population, and the earth's ecosystem? It's time to get back to that, folks. We can do some managing or we can do some indiscriminate and painful dying. I hope it is still up to us.

Well, that was gloomy. On a lighter note, bhakti, Jo, and JoannaOregon, re the Bush balloon--in 1992 a friend bought her cat a George H.W. Bush cat toy. (Bill Clinton cat toys were also available.) She told me the cat immediately tore the Bush toy to shreds--which surprised her because he was careful with his other cloth toys. She purchased a replacement and again the cat tore the Bush toy to shreds. Was this cat intuitive? political? or a kinscat of the Starcats? I donno.

Sharon, thanks so much for your kind comments re the blue Earth post. In my bedroom I have two framed NASA photos--one of the earth from space, and one of Florida as the space shuttle came in. I can't remember who said (very wisely) that the photo of earth from space would have a great influence--an icon showing that we are one world.

Barbara,

Soooo glad to hear that you are safe...

I don't know who you are thinking of in particular that remarked on the photos of earth from space, but Joseph Campbell did have something to say about that:

The Way of Emptiness

We are the children of this beautiful planet that we have lately seen photographed from the moon. We were not delivered into it by some god, but have come forth from it. We are its eyes and mind, its seeing and its thinking. and the earth, together with the sun, this light around which it flies like a moth, came forth, we are told, from a nebula; and that nebula, in turn from space. So that we are the mind, ultimately, of space... each in his own way, at one with all and with no horizons.

Teresa, those were inner planet transits to her natal chart. i was looking at uranus and neptune but lost patience (i don't have a computer program for this). the chart was from starIQ.

take care

Barbara, sometimes I find it difficult to follow all the posts coherently (in my mind !)....but in thinking of the photos from space of earth, I remembered that the astronauts had some remarkable experiences and Buzz Aldrin said he had been quite altered by the experience. And Edgar Mitchell founded the Institue of Noetic Science in Marin Co., CA...

That is one smart cat, Barbara!

Regarding Haiti, it's a USian drug running corridor as in USian govt... has been at least since ray-gun/bush. It's in their interest, I assume, to keep the Peoples of that country upset & chaotic... the same thing they like to do to say... Venezuela. They will do nothing for the Haitian Peoples except to make sure they are forced-fed more misery.

Dear Astro world, All of the things said about Mr. Zoller are basically true. He has insulted me as a cosmobiologist to my face at a meeting in CT. His retro perspective does not enjoy modern methods. However, I lectured for NCGR in Hartford CT in 2001 and he said hello to me and was very cordial. My Moon square Saturn, at times, can make me a curmudgeon also!
Starman

Timothy, to your question: "What would motivate an individual who could esily have avoided it to sign up for duty in Vietnam and then to choose the swift boats? Once he got to Washington, he took on the Iran-Contra mess and the BCCI, and exposed the unsavories in the Reagan administration, many of whom are now in Smirky's administration."

My answer is that he's a Warrior. Through and through. Look what he does for 'recreation'. Yes a bit of a windy pedantic discourser, but a warrior nonetheless. I don't know where it shows in his chart. I would assume mars, pluto, and a buncha fire aspects. The Jains use as an example the teerthankars to show how someone moves along the same energy continuum, just different ends, from killer to compassionate healer.
http://jainhistory.tripod.com/dare.html
Monks become soldiers, soldiers become monks. Bravery is shown when necessary. I think Kerry's absolutely in his element being now justified to protect his campaign, his brothers-in-arms, his 'family' on all levels by attacking back. And isn't there some principle in martial arts about letting the opponent charge and using his energy against him?
In short, Kerry's a real MAN. And my dog in the hunt was another real man, but I recognize one when I see one. And appreciate him.

You go bbuster!

Come on back, let's hear your voice on the current thread... we need you... namaste

I read some of these. Those who bad mouth this administration (I.m picturing a yawning black chasm that this whole miserable Administration is hopefully about to fall into. :-)
Teresa....I posted the zoller site on the last post on the last thread. Posted by: Teg on September 25, 2004 03:04 AM)
should think what it would be like if Sadam or Bin L were running this country. Somehow you forget that those people have been after us since long befor G.W.B. was in office. Clinton allowed them to bomb our embasseys and the Cole and the Towers the first time. Got nothing to say about him? Seems you have your head firmly planted in a really dark place.

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