Oh, boy, Sally! Tim figured that out when he was 7? Some smart kid! Must run in the family. Thanks for a wonderful analysis of the next three months. My seat belt is fastened.

Excellent article as usual Sally. Many thanks, love the white noise metaphor.
Remember Corleonis? She taught me to put mirrors in my window to have whatever bad energy sent my way to boomerang onto the sender.
I did that. I was receiving hangups and one was recorded on my caller ID and psychically with a little research I figured it out. It turned out to be someone from my past who I learned to cast magic circles with. She had said at that time she'd do malefic magic. Yikes. I have since only do my sanskrit magical chant and that's it, truly positive and helps one transcend the affects of harmful astrological aspects, it says so in one of it's 200 stanzas. Anyway, ever since I put mirrors in my window my life got so much better. Better money, relations with people, etc.

I suggest we all see John Kerry with mirrors all over him. Remember those Indian hippy clothes with small mirrors sewn onto to them? That's what I am envisioning. May all the bad juju thrown at him boomerang back to the sender.

May sound kooky, but I'm doing it.

Thanks so much Sally. Seems you're right on the money about them having the 'right' poll numbers and being aware Kerry is winning... Rather is from Texas. The may have picked the wrong guy to tear down... There's so much in your article --- I need to sit with this one for a while... seems all the atrocities I thought Bush Sr capable of years ago were more right than I imagined... GHWB and Lee Atwater, GHWB and Karl Rove, GWB and Karl Rove... and of course, there's Barb to add to the mix...

bhakti, I had forgotten about the mirrors... no more television for this being... can't take the energy even coming from a box...

Going to spend a LOT of time meditating...

Namaste

There's also an interesting story in salon.com about the Dep. of Defense closing down the web site that helps Americans living overseas register to vote. They're investing a lot of time in helping the soldiers register, but aren't allowing those 6 million strong overseas who want their voices heard nov 2. I think the Bush team knows this voting block won't be in his corner and is blatantly disenfrachising them. Perhaps it'll make the news. (you can all stop laughing now) :-)

White noise: A Rove specialty. Righteous article, Captain Sally. Many, many thanks!

And now, all, look at this:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6073449/site/newsweek/

This Rather-blather vs. Niger thing is getting weirder and weirder. Hope it can break through the white noise.

Nancy, hope you pick this up from the last thread, I just decided to post it here. You asked about his mental health and I seem to remember you writing a stellar piece on Bush's mental health. I can't help but think there are and have been some problems. With the Sun and Saturn in the 12th, Sun square the ruler of the 12th (Moon) which is in the 3rd house of mental health, and Saturn ruling the 6th and Moon within 5 degrees of a conjunction to the 6th house cusp, adds up to some mental challenges to me, and on top of that throw the natural ruler of the 3rd house (Mercury) conj. Pluto, well President or no, I think we may see a (or hear of) a breakdown for him over the next 4 years with Saturn coming to the Ascendant and that might have been what happened to him during those missing months.

He has some kind of rigid strange disconnect from fact and reality. I just don't know if it's him or his string pullers, but it is beyond odd for someone without any real skills to be President of a super-power to stand against those more knowledgeable and to stand against the world. His speech at the UN was shocking particularly since he needs those countries so badly, not just for Iraq but for our own economy.

So in answer to your question from the previous post, yes I think there could be and have always been some kind of mental illness and I actually don't mean that in a cruel manner. I think it's a serious issue.

(This is a re-post, so if the earlier one comes in just ignore it. Dunno where it went. Does Pluto have rings? Maybe that's where they go.)

CNN can't decide if Cat Stevens should be allowed in the U.S.:

http://www.cnn.com/

Sally - I am just wondering if, in fact, that is what the Saturn return will be about, bringing his mental health issues forward. In particular, his disconnect from reality. Now that Kerry has pointed it out, it is really obvious.

Look at this quote from Jonathan Schell article:

Kerry's speech was the beginning "at long last" (his words) of a serious debate in the campaign over the war. The speech was heralded by his charge, a few days before, that George W. Bush lives in a "fantasy world of spin" -- the first telling, or even widely audible, phrase that Kerry has used in his entire campaign for President. Bush, indeed, has an audacious personal quality that has somehow served him well so far: full frontal repudiation of facts known to all. Faced with the absence of WMDs in Iraq he once simply said, "We have found the weapons of mass destruction." Faced with a Presidential Daily Brief titled "Bin Laden Determined to Strike in the U.S.," he and his spokespersons called it "historical." In his universe, faithfulness to delusion is "consistency." It reached its apogee at the GOP convention, where the President presented a picture of the war in Iraq from which all current facts-the street fighting, the bombing, the kidnappings, the torture, the departing allies-had been removed.

"Staying the course" meant staying in the imaginary world. At the convention, the President, if we are to judge by his sudden dramatic rise in the polls, apparently drew a majority of the country into that world with him.

http://www.tomdispatch.com/index.mhtml?emx=x&pid=1842

Great article Sally!!!! I guess I'll hold my breath until October 10th. You son Tim does sound like a little Genius!

I am getting more interested in Vedic astrology. I have mentioned that my life has been fairly bad lately. My Mother, Brother and I all have a Taurus Vedic Moon. I just found out about a rough period in Vedic astrology called sadhe saati - when Saturn moves through the 12th, 1st and 2nd houses as counted from the Vedic natal moon. Since the Vedic trasiting Saturn just went into Cancer - that may be why things seem to be improving for me/us. However - if I wait for Saturn to go 45 degrees past my vedic moon - I still have some time in sadhe saati left. But - it seems to fit my life so well - it has made me much more interested in Vedic astrology. And also Libra is a better place than Virgo for me. I know all of this is very personal and not political - but I do feel an energy change. (Maybe it is all the clutter I'm getting rid of which is helping the chi in my life?) Anyway - I'm not psychic - so wish I was - but I really feel a Kerry win! I really don't think anyone cares too much about the Rather thing except the press - which is always self-obsessed - and the far right. The beheadings, Cat Stevens deportation, and possible draft is on the minds of more people. (I think)

By the way - I love the mirrors idea - not just for Kerry - but for me too!

Wow! Yikes!

Excellent as always, Sally.

I don't know if I'm ready for the next few weeks; they sound like a doozy for Kerry, and us. Anyhow, will watch out for the white noise, or as MLK once said, "Keep your eyes on the prize."

By the way, I love the "white noise" metaphor, Sally. It is so appropriate. They just drown out the important stuff, don't they.

Thank you, Sally. Good stuff.

Picture the map of the U.S. enveloped by a beautiful purple light -- soft, healing, loving. It creates unity.

Picture John Kerry and John Edwards delineated by clear sharp blue (in fact, with red & white also) or surrounded by & infiltrated with healing purple light, whatever works for you.

I don't know about you but it calms me down in these nerve racking days.

My Cuban friends from Miami sent me this stupid article going around about Teresa & John's ketchup companies and how they are all outsourcing to foreign labor. What a crock! So, I looked it up on www.snopes.com, found it to be false (they own less than 4% shares now; most of the money is in
the foundation). I promptly emailed it back to the entire list telling them I just knew they would want to know the real truth with so many non-verified emails going around. I mentioned what a philanthropist Teresa is and champion of women & children's causes. I also told them I missed them, all done with "Libra graciousness" (the mindless jerks!!!!)

Oh Sharon, that is priceless! Good work!

Hey, about mirrors....don't know, bhakti, if you meant physical mirrors....but for a while (during the last GHW B**h reign of terror), I actually had to use psychic mirrors (convex ones) psychically around the house I once owned. For some reason (being a single woman maybe, an artist and free spirit not conforming to "norm"), the 3 male neighbors, 2 across the street and one to my right, insisted on standing in the street and shouting obscenities at me, chastizing me at every moment....I have never experienced that kind of bullying ever in my life....except as a kid. So I put up psychic convex bulls eye mirrors on every window, and renewed them every evening. So all that crap bounced back on them. The funniest thing was the ancient mother of the guy in the house on the right, who was an old Italian ( who kept his strange brother who was dying of cancer in a shack in the back yard, was that his ancient and somewhat demented mother started bringing me plates of cabbage rolls she was always making, as if to make up for her weird offspring!!! She was a sweetheart....but the sig heil German from across the street who yelled the most and seemed to be the ringleader had a heart attack. The Japanese/american guy's son bought the house after I lost it in my triplewhammy financial fiasco of the early 90's - which I might add, is going to happen again if we don't get rid of this cartel.

I felt like I was attacked by the old WWII Axis of evil....

Sally...great stories, once again....and I might add to "white noise" the great and always appropriate and useful "cognitive dissonance" which results from listening to the "white noise" eminating from the piehole of these "eeevil-doo-ers"...

Sidney Blumenthal:
Bush's campaign depends on the containment of any contrary perception of reality. He must evade, deny and suppress it. His true opponent is not his Democratic foe - called unpatriotic and the candidate of al-Qaida by the vice-president - but events. Bush's latest vision is his shield against them. He invokes the power of positive thinking, as taught by Emile Coue, guru of autosuggestion in the giddy 1920s, who urged mental improvement through constant repetition: "Every day in every way I am getting better and better."

It was during this era of illusion that TS Eliot wrote The Hollow Men:
Between the idea/
And the reality/
Between the motion/
And the act/
Falls the Shadow."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,5022483-112564,00.html

Thanks everyone for your kind words, you guys are always so nice to all of us. I refer to my children or children in general so often in my articles because it so accurately relates to the immaturity exhibited in this administration. It's my observation and experience of my kids or children that helps me understand what is going on. I cannot understand the Bush Cartel, or even most of the media or wrap my mind around their reasoning from an adult perspective, because I don't know adults who behave in this manner or think like this.

Nancy, wouldn't the Neptune in opposition to his Mercury have started the disconnect? I do think Saturn in Cancer (it's fall) would have exacerbated the repression of the 12th house when it conjuncted his Sun and squared the Moon and Saturn does have a delayed reaction. What do you think the impact of Neptune inconj. his Sun might have on his psychological reasoning?

When Neptune was opposite his Mercury during the 9/11 period and the Enron/Global Crossing collapse a reporter asked him how would he describe his year in 2001 and he said "Laura and I have had a fantastic year." I thought then that his grasp on reality was pretty thin. What do you think the chances are that he has always been mentally fragile and his family knew it? or knows it?

During the Clinton administration I am sure the GOP would have settled for just keeping him from governing with the constant upheaval they were creating, but the tactic of ramping up the noise and pushing in the legal areas, they actually accomplished impeachment. Having once tasted this kind of success, I feel they will not stop on any opponent now, or in the future. If they get into office I feel we will actually find ourselves with a one Party system of government.

There does not exist the moral or normal human standards with these people. Being shocked is just one of the tools.

Powerful visualizations may be the most important thing people can do, along with the mirrors of course.

Wonderful and helpful article Sally! Thank you for you work, and your caring for the collective and the individual.

Some of my friends are recovering cocaine and alcohol addicts. All, and I mean all, see the "dry drunk" syndrome in President Bush. He may have stopped the drugs, but he still is very much the addict. The addict suffers from "self will run riot, if he/she doesn't take rigorous moral and ethical moral inventory. They think he was either blown out of his mind those missing days in Alabama, or he was in a rehab trying to get "sober." Hasn't done him much good. They think he failed to take the physical because he was so doped up he couldn't risk being caught. They keep using the words all addicts are intrinsically liars, "king baby, babies...and once an addict puts down the sauce, all the other psychological problems crop up. Many self medicate through sexual addiction, gambling, over spending, over eating, power games, you name it in order to avoid getting to the real ethical/moral self inventory. As an astrologer, when I see Neptune opposed to his natal Pluto, and the Venus/Pluto conjunction in his first house, I know we are dealing with a person who survives by triangulating relationships and proceedures. He will take circuitous routes,lying and working through third parties to do his dirty work. He will pit one person against another. He will use others to serve the purpose of power. Intrigue is a characteristic of many Venus/Pluto (Liz Greene) contacts. So is treachery. A "junta" has been born.

I have a friend who is a "drunk" (she says even tho she hasn't had a drink since 1991 that she is still a drunk) and she has said from the beginning that B**h is a dry drunk. Takes one to know one, as they say....

I still think what Yoshi Tsurumi said about B*h as a student is really what we have now as pResident. According to the Prof, B*h missed class and was hung over, when he did attend he was smart alecky, unprepared and above it all...he professed that "the poor are just lazy" as a reason not to support programs for the less fortunate...he admired, above all, the ultimate corporate president, William McKinley as his hero. Karl "KKK" Rove took as HIS ideal mentor, Mark Hunter, who was McKinley's Brain.

But still, Sally's take on the white noise is something we should all be aware (beware!) off....and if her 7 year old could figure that out, we'd all better wake up!

This trick old coming out
http://rising-hegemon.blogspot.com/2004/09/bogus-assault-father-freeper-of-year.html

Real Estate Markets
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2004/0404.wallace-wells.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A43162-2004Sep22.html

Draft? Bush's War Needs Troops
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/092304Y.shtml

The Cracks in the Facade of Bush Unity
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/092304X.shtml

Millions Blocked from Voting in U.S. Election
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/092304E.shtml

http://www.commondreams.org/news2004/0920-22.htm

Winberg and Christensen are spokespersons for Findlaw, the legal web site.

Winberg said today: "According to our new poll, roughly four in 10 Americans say they are worried about potential problems with electronic voting machines to be used in the November election.

Forty-two percent of those surveyed are concerned about potential vote tampering in electronic voting machines.

Thirty-eight percent say they are worried about the accuracy of the machines.

Roughly one-third of voters nationwide will use touch-screen computer voting machines in the upcoming November election.

PatC you are a first class researcher and have so added to this site. You've made us all better at researching.

Geez... I did the solistice chart this morning but I see I did it wrong. Had I done it right and noticed that 19 degrees virgo midheaven I think my hair would have been on fire.

Mercury is there in an almost exact square to Pluto and mercury rules the tenth or midheaven. In mundane astrology the tenth is the king or the president.....ie the one who rules.

Or to put it another way Pluto squares the midheaven where the ruler of the the tenth is posited.If the ruler of the tenth makes good aspects with benifacs then things go well for the king if with malfacs and bad aspects(which is the case here) then there is great unrest in the land and a threat to the throne emerges.

When I get home I will redo this chart and take another look.But given what we know about our current king I hope the threat to his throne is no small thing.

It might be added that malafcs square the cusp of the tenth dont help the king a whole lot either especially if it carries the weight of Pluto that lets no liveing thing off the hook.

Sally,
One thing I encountered in the Spiritualist/New Age church I used to go to in Houston was a lot of struggling AA people. One man was listing the reasons for drinking by him and all his buds and a main one for some of them turned out to be that they would have way too many freaky psychic episodes while sober! So what if Bushbaby really does hear voices because he's a latent telepath! Wow, who knows how else his natal mercury and Pluto could be relating to his natal Neptune and Moon with Chiron involved? The square to the nSun from those three may explain a lot of self-hate; you can't be rational with voices in your head!

This probably sounds too nuts. Just say I'm up too late. Goodnight.

White Noise, huh? Like the kind I used to listen to when I couldn''t go to sleep at night. It was a little black box which could simulate the waves at the beach, even rain, or just plain ol' fuzz.

So that's what we're hearing nowadays? Well, I tend to agree. Except it's worse than that. About 2 years ago, I turned off my TV permanently. I just couldn't stand the venomous vipers at work.

It's 10 times worse now. I can't imagine how anyone can listen to these hatemongers who are on 24 hours a day, spewing their rhetoric. I've become allergic to it, and I believe it's extremely damaging to listen to it.

Plus, I believe it's incredibly damaging to their own psyches to be doing this. They can't get off that easily!

Well, on a happy note: I've been walking around the neighborhoods where my office is located (NE Portland). These past few weeks, I've counted close to 70 lawn signs that advertise 'Kerry/Edwards', and only ONE Bush/Cheney. Looks like the polls are a little skewed.....

Chas the midheaven for the Fall Solstice in Washington is 18 Virgo 24, John Kerry's Jupiter when he gave his acceptance speech in June was 18 Virgo 12, so it is in a very close applying conjunction to that Midheaven. It's also in an applying conjunction to Mercury at 19 Virgo 11 square to Pluto at 19 Sag 21. A concern I have is all this figures into his progressed Saturn at 19 Gemini.

Jill I don't think you sound crazy, I think given his comments about "God saying he should do this and that" would make one think there is a possibility of validity to the concept.

Sally, the conjunction is very positive for a rise in public status, however, the square to progressed Saturn indicates some difficulties. And remember, should Kerry win, Kerry will probably have to be the adult in the transition situation. An angry,bitter, depressed Shrub may lash out in many ways, and Kerry will have to have the patience of Job to remain Presidential and not let it rattle him.

Every moment has good and bad aspects.. Progression to the next moment depends on all of them. I've never encountered an experience that wasn't tense in some way.

For me, in retrospect, the difficulties don't seem so bad.
I am trying to learn not to fear the ones coming up in the road.

Here it is, in a nutshell. The whole sickening thing.

http://www.opednews.com/hartmann_092104_tongues.htm

Thank you Sally for another insightful piece. I ventured into TV-land last nite aka SCUM, just to catch "The Daily Show" and bits and pieces of what is being said out there. Saw some shots of GWB giving his speeches. The way he looks lately puts me in mind of "The Picture Of Dorian Gray," the painting by Ivan Albright.

http://www.cegur.com/html/frameAlbright.html

Someone has knifed the painting.....trans Pluto perhaps?

Looks like transiting Saturn is at about 25 degrees Cancer, almost right on Georgie Porgie's natal Saturn at 26 degrees Cancer...does anyone have any idea of how quickly the Saturn stuff may be kicking in? I don't know exactly when my first return was as I wasn't an astrology student then...and I'm very far away from my second return.

I really hope (and on some level expect) it begins manifest itself within the next week or so...already the race is getting tighter once again, and Shrub's post convention bounce has gone flat...but now Kerry has laryngitis!!! Let's all send him some metaphysical honey and tea in our thoughts...

Thank you Sally. ((hug))

GLOBE & MAIL

Pair to probe CBS report on Bush's military record

New York -- CBS News appointed a former Republican cabinet member and a retired news executive yesterday to investigate its discredited 60 Minutes report.

Dick Thornburgh, former attorney-general in the Ronald Reagan and George Bush administrations and former Pennsylvania governor, will start work immediately with Louis Boccardi, who retired last year as president and CEO of The Associated Press.

It is Mr. Boccardi's second such job since retirement; he served on a panel appointed by The New York Times to probe how reporter Jayson Blair fabricated sources and got them published.

......................

http://salon.com/news/feature/2004/09/23/iraq_hell/print.html

Hell

Salon's war correspondent on the Iraq inferno.

Editor's note: Salon correspondent Phillip Robertson has spent five months covering the war in Iraq. As the presidential campaign finally focuses on the war, Robertson offers this assessment of the grim situation there.

More...

This is long and quite good. It is worth the day pass.

http://salon.com/tech/feature/2004/09/23/ethanol/print.html

How to have fun with ethanol

When an American company processes Brazilian ethanol in an El Salvadoran plant, how many tax loopholes is it jumping through? And how many U.S. politicians are going to feign outrage?

"I hate talking about ethanol," says the Sierra Club's Dan Becker, who makes his living talking about ethanol. It's not so much that he's appalled by the hypocrisy surrounding the "green fuel," although he is. It's that while the product's benefits are marginal, there are still just enough of them to make it difficult to persuade people that public resources might be better spent elsewhere.

Ethanol "saves energy, but it also takes an enormous amount of energy to produce it," says Becker, director of the environmental group's energy program. "And while it reduces some pollutants, such as carbon monoxide, it increases others, such as smog."

Nevertheless, to eke out those marginal benefits, federal and state governments have over the past couple of decades spent many billions of dollars to create, maintain and protect the growing ethanol industry, thus producing a new market for U.S. corn growers and their agribusiness benefactors. Midwestern legislators swear fealty to the ethanol industry every time they run for office. It's a great election-year issue for politicians of both parties -- including both presidential candidates -- who want to pick up votes in crucial corn-belt swing states. Partly because ethanol's benefits are just attractive enough to make it salable as an alternative energy source, it's the perfect boondoggle -- one with nearly zero political downside.

But a boondoggle it is. Just look at the most recent case: Agribusiness giant Cargill announces plans to open a tiny ethanol plant in El Salvador, and suddenly Midwestern lawmakers are scrambling to propose laws designed to stop the corporation in its tracks, citing the need to further protect the domestic ethanol market. Their frenzied reaction highlights once again how, when it comes to ethanol, lawmakers from both parties are eager to make nice with each other to keep federal dollars flowing to prop up a dubious product that few people want. The result of all this finagling is a whole network of conflicting and contradictory rules and incentives governing the ethanol market both domestically and internationally -- and oodles of special-interest campaign contributions for the politicians concerned. Many ethanol critics say that if the government is going to support energy alternatives and manipulate markets, its resources would be better spent on other, more worthy initiatives. Wind and solar power, say. Or conservation measures.

Cargill's plan could yield cheaper, more plentiful ethanol. So, by opposing it, lawmakers are tacitly admitting that they are less interested in ethanol's supposed benefits -- that it reduces greenhouse gases and curtails our dependence on Mideast oil -- than they are in preserving their favorite source of political pork.

More...

Speaking of noise..........

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3680086.stm

It is absolutely imperative that we get the oilmen out of power and leave fossil fuels behind.

Ha! This is great!

http://www.saintclinton.com/

Bush is toast.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0409/S00248.htm

Sander Hicks Reviews The 9/11 Commission Report
Thursday, 23 September 2004, 8:02 am

IN THE RECENT documentary Outfoxed, media critic Robert McChesney suggests right-leaning news outlets like Fox News are worse than the Stalinist-era propaganda. At least in Soviet Russia, he says, people knew they were getting the official party line.

The problem of the 9/11 Commission Report is similar. Instead of being printed by the government that wrote it, the Report is published by the employee-owned, independent press W. W. Norton & Co. The writing style goes out of its way to appear informal, with occasional references to Hollywood films or rhetoric about the importance of civil liberties. Norton's first printing of 500,000 has already been snapped up, leaving bookstores nation-wide out of it, in more ways than one.

The only way to explain the best-seller status of this dry, stiff and cynical book is to understand the 9/11 disaster as a national trauma so intense that the co-dependent American family is still reaching for anything that will assure it. The Saudi-Pakistani-Bush Family-CIA connections aren't as incestuous as they seem, right? Everybody in the government did everything in their power to stop it, didn't they? Surely they couldn't have known about 9/11 and allowed it to happen to justify their agenda, right?

The Report may be the most literary work ever authored by a group of 10. "Tuesday, September 11, 2001, dawned temperate and nearly cloudless in the eastern United States" is the opener. It's that undergraduate formula: Start with the weather. The Report then moves on to tell a selective conspiracy theory.

The Report pays lip service to the value of the "investigative journalists and watchdog organizations." But the Commission refused to call any 9/11 watchdogs or investigative journalists to testify. Instead, they brought in fellow bureaucrats, politicians, spies and policy wonks who provided a parade of mind-blowingly dull chatter. When their witnesses "don't recall" the answers the Commission accepts that at face value. "Our aim has not been to assign blame" the Commission confesses in the Preface.

skip skip skip

The report's final line is "we look forward to a national debate on the merits of what we have recommended, and we will participate vigorously in that debate."

Ha. A debate is the last thing the Commission wants. That became evident when Richard Ben-Veniste came on my segment of the INN World Report TV program and gave me stock non-answers in plodding, DC insider gibberish to the hard questions of 9/11. It became even more evident when he hurled insults at me for broadcasting that show without editing out his tense reaction when I asked him about his involvement with CIA drug-runner Barry Seal.

The 9/11 Commission Report has joined the Warren Report as one of the greatest cover-ups of all time.

Even if they did just happen to have been caught off guard on 9/11, high-level personnel at the FBI, CIA and the Department of Justice should have been indicted for incompetence. But if those personnel and their boss in the White House knew about it, they should all be indicted and tried in a high court.

Instead, every one of them is thanked in the preface.

................

The hot rumor in New York political circles has Roger Stone, the longtime GOP activist, as the source for Dan Rather's dubious Texas Air National Guard "memos."

But who is Roger Stone?

http://www.oliverwillis.com/node/view/678

worth a read....

http://www.observer.com/pages/observer.asp

Attached is a wonderful site. The long article
on George Bush's "Madness" is compelling. I urge
everyone to read it....

http://www.awakeninthedream.com/

Am strangely energized this morning. Pat C, been reading everything you have posted. Thank you! Must be feeling pluto, lol as it transits closer to my n. mercury....I feel like I am on a pluto rant.

http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?itemid=17713

The Rapture racket
by Bill Berkowitz

"The rapture is a racket," writes Barbara R. Rossing in the first sentence of her recently published book The Rapture Exposed: The Message
of Hope in the Book of Revelation (Westview Press, 2004). Rossing, a New Testament scholar and an associate professor at the Lutheran School of Theology at Chicago, maintains that the Rapture is a fraud of monumental proportions, as well as a disturbing way to instill fear in people.

more..

I'm feeling the same way Shade. I haven't even posted all the information I've found. I know I do have some heavy Pluto aspects now, and at least this is a positive way of using the energy.

I have so much to do today, and I should just stop reading and go do it.

Pat C, I so hear you. Yet here I sit. wv, that is an amazing site, which once I finish Paul Levy's "Madness..." I must further explore. So thank you, thank you, thank you all.

Beasley, Judi, Sally, Nancy, and all who have posted re Bush's mental state--yesterday I read an interview with Sy Hersh (think it was on Buzzflash, will check) and he thinks the whole neo-con gang is delusional. He said something to the effect of: if they were cynical maybe they wouldn't be so incompetent-- but they are true believers, who see only their own bizarre view of the world. (I guess they are like those way out religious people who go up to the mountain to wait for the end of the world and when it doesn't come most of them still believe. They've just got to recalibrate the end time.) Facts don't budge 'em.

During the 1992 presidential campaign I remember the exact moment I realized when Clinton was going to win. I was standing outside a women's clinic ignoring a protester who was shouting at me about how we bad women would soon all be in jail (not white noise since it came from just one source--I'd say that noise was sort of sludge-colored.) Anyhow, the world suddenly got quiet and still like it does on those rare moments when you slip out of clock time, and I suddenly knew with absolute certainty that Clinton would win. When I snapped back into everyday time I gave the protester a big peaceful smile.

That moment hasn't happened in this election yet, but I think maybe it will.

WV "George Bush's Madness" by Paul Levy is outstanding, in fact the whole site is outstanding and clearly points to and understand the collective "illness" which has a stranglehold on this country. Thank you, great information.

Been reading your links wv, and wow, what an interesting site Awaken in the Dream is. I'm going to send that out to the people I know. Thanks so much!

Spinbusters

http://www.campaigndesk.org/archives/000928.asp

Sally and all:

I got ready for bed last night, thought I’d take a political break and go through several of my older astro books in preparation for a list I am putting together for students/clients. I had several books on the chest by the bed, and thought Grant Lewi’s Astrology for the Millions would be a pretty safe read and one I could browse through just to refresh my mind and get another overview.

Going through the Table of Contents, though, I saw two chapters on Strong Men of Destiny...one chapter having to do with Hitler, Mussolini, Napoleon, and Kaiser Willhelm. The other chapter was “The Strange Cycles of the Presidents” and listed Lincoln, Wilson, and both Teddy and Franklin Roosevelt.

So...=)...I took a look at those, remembering scanning through them at some earlier date, but not remembering much.

The chapter on the American presidents was the one I found interesting.

And, you may have already covered this in an earlier article, so please excuse me if I reiterate some information you have already discussed.

What I thought was interesting, though, was Lewi’s comments:

“Of the seventeen presidents from Lincoln to Franklin D. Roosevelt, inclusive, only one has managed to get elected and serve out a term under Saturn’s transit of his own place.”

He continues: “It seems impossible to survive in public service this condition which accounted for the fall of the Kaiser and Napoleon, and which takes its toll regularly on the hopes of America’s leaders.”

And...”The few who have been in the White House through this transit or just prior to it have earnestly wished they weren’t; and happy have been they who got out from under, even in defeat!”

Only two presidents to survive this transit, it seems, were in office during their Saturn returns, Wilson and Roosevelt. According to Lewi’s charts, they both had natal Saturn in the 9th, and at their return both were in office during a foreign war.

I looked at what was available on Rodden’s site. Nothing for Eisenhower, or Nixon. Did find GHWBush data and he did not appear to be in office during a Saturn return.

Needless to say, I thought this particularly interesting since Dubya falls into this category.

Lewi wrote the book in 1940, so no other info, but he lists Lincoln, Johnson, Grant, Garfield, Arthur, Benj. Harrison, Cleveland, McKinley, T. Roosevelt, Taft, Wilson, Harding, Coolidge, and FDR as falling in this group. He doesn’t show any of the charts except just FD Roosevelt, so I couldn’t get any more of a grasp on this.

But, I thought this was worth sharing.

Now, guess the question will have to be: Will Georgie boy make it through the election only to fall from grace during a second term...or will he be granted a graceful exit and not be elected at all?

Oh yes, Lewi refers to the 12th house as “delusional.”

Signed,
a political reader one way or the other, it seems

The point you've made about all planets being hemmed in between nodes(Rahu and Ketu), I had blogged previously here about 2 weeks ago; shrub
suffers from this planetary configuration on his
natal chart called kala sarpa yoga (malefic yoga)
sarpa means snake in Sanskrit indicates Rapid and
Disastrous FALL for shrub(all the quagmires originated by shrub will eventually result him in
this FALL to total disgrace), snake also indicates
fall in board games here. Any way, just my 2 cents
on this; again dow is downer today like yesterday.
My instinct says it's going to be OctoberFest for
Kerry supporters!

Sally,
Above blog, because I attacked shrub, the shrub gremlins at work, it should be signed Raj at bottom and addressed to Sally on the top!

Cat Stevens Slams U.S. Deportation

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/092404Y.shtml

Like everything with this corrupt crony usurped
admin. cat stevens episode makes no sense;in one
breath adm.says his name yusuf isalm is a wanted
but then they don't arrest him and let him go;only
did't allow him to enter the country, that's fishy
If he is wanted for terrorist connections, shrub/
ashy cronies arrest him, if not let him enter, even the simplest logic gets ALL screwed up with these total IDIOTIC MORONS!

Raj, I suspect it is all part of their revenge on old hippies.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6072945/

Jon Stewart plants tongue in cheek, ponders democracy

‘The Daily Show’ host offers a postmodern, no-holds-barred look at our country’s governing system. Read an excerpt

Raj, I doubt these morons even know WHO Cat Stevens is in the first place...

Sally, Nancy, all -

Just saw a short comment by Josh Marshall at TPM about Rove. Supposedly there's to be an article about the King of the Underworld out next week. Marshall makes that comment that what we've seen of Rove so far is pretty tame. A very scary thought indeed. This made me wonder again what might be in store for Rove during the next couple of weeks. I think if what you guys are predicting is true, the full onslaught of Rove election tricks will be dumped out right about now. How does his chart look during the next few weeks?

Also, doesn't the first debate occur during the next couple of weeks? Is it possible that there could be a monumental gaffe by either Kerry or dimson at that time that could spell the end of the campaign for one of them?

Oh, and what about a 'terraist attack' during this period? I was also noting that Jeanne is bearing down on Florida, probably hitting sometime this weekend, and Ivan has regenerated as a tropical storm and is threatening the coast of Texas and Louisiana during the same time.

The Madness of King George....http://www.alternativesmagazine.com/31/levy.html

Isn't this a great diagnosis: malignant egophrenia (or ME disease) ?

Fascinating article!

Judi, in fact they do remember who Cat Stevens is, along with all the other characters who drove Nixon from office and protested the Viet Nam war. The resentment is plapable.

Looks like Bush is facing some tough questions at his press conference with Allawi. Apparently he said, as proof that things are just peachy in Iraq, that the right track/wrong track numbers were better in Iraq than in the US! Looks like the Saturn return is kicking in for Boy George.

OK...this is for all of us who cannot listen to Beezelbub....from the Paul Levy article...
Falling victim to one’s own deception, as George Bush has, can have a very mesmerizing and gripping effect on others, because the one so affected is so convinced of what he is saying. To quote C. G. Jung, one of the greatest psychiatrists of the twentieth century, “Nothing has such a convincing effect as a lie one invents and believes oneself.” Bush has the seductive coherence of someone who is fanatically identified, like the typical fundamentalist, with only one side of a polarity. Thomas Merton, commenting on the case of the obviously demented Nazi war criminal, Adolf Eichmann, points out “One of the most disturbing facts that came out in the Eichmann trial was that a psychiatrist examined him and pronounced him perfectly sane.” A key feature of malignant egophrenia is that it is very hard to recognize when someone is a carrier, because the person can seem so normal and even endearing. The person afflicted can be very “charming” and have a certain type of charisma that can entrance those who don’t see through the subterfuge.

Pat C...I hope you have time to read the Levy article...would love to know what you think....(thanks for all the great things you've posted, too

"Jupiter, Mars and Mercury are trying to lunge toward Libra over the next few days, to join the Sun in that most gracious, fair, craving balance, sign. ""

Loved reading those words. As a Libra I have come to realize that Sept. is generally a ghastly month for me. After it's over I forget all about it until the next Sept. when, once again, matters external to me jump up and down on my last nerve. So I've had a lot of sympathy for Kerry this last month because there are matters over which one simply has no control.

The white noise metaphor is cuttingly brilliant and is exactly what is happening, the msnbc/newsweek story makes that clear. They will investigate Rather but not Novak.

Plame/neo-con spy scandal/chalabi is the key to the insidiousness of this admin and could well end the influence of the right wing in this country if only justice could prevail. But Asscroft needs to be removed from the picture and the white noise needs to be silenced for that to happen.

What I would like to know is this, when 2022 comes along, do the stars say we will have the country, it seems we never did have in the last 100 years, back?

Well, also, the media finally doing their job, too....SFGate Chronicle picked up story from Wash Post about the "flip flop" label hung on Kerry being a total lie....

Last night saw part of the Larry King show with the Diane Sawyer Primetime crew....Chris Cuomo mentioned that all the networks were getting slammed for not addressing the underlying truth about the documents on Bush; spending too much time on the wrong story again. All of them said that writing to networks has a POSITIVE effect....that they DO respond .... so keep sending all your email to the networks about everything. Maybe we can aid in getting some truth for a change

Judi, it's a wonderful article, and it's my strongest hope that the mental illness of so many in the neocon uprising will be stopped before any more people can be harmed. It's always been people like this, (Hitler, Nero, etc) that have brought great societies down throughout history.

Just saw this on MSNBC site.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6073449/site/newsweek/

The Story That Didn’t Run
Here’s the piece that ‘60 Minutes’ killed for its report on the Bush Guard documents

snip....

A team of “60 Minutes” correspondents and consulting reporters spent more than six months investigating the Niger uranium documents fraud, CBS sources tell NEWSWEEK. The group landed the first ever on-camera interview with Elisabetta Burba, the Italian journalist who first obtained the phony documents, as well as her elusive source, Rocco Martino, a mysterious Roman businessman with longstanding ties to European intelligence agencies.

More...

Hey everyone,
On the Democratic Underground site
on the General Discussion Forum is a long Media list with their email attachments.

My friends and I were falling asleep during the Bush speech at the RNC.
Like the Wizard of OZ we joked, 'Poppies, Poppies' as he lulled us into a trance like state of nothingness.

Kerry is calling the shots now , putting Bush on the defensive. About time. Popcorn fluffed but not sitting back to watch , here's where we need to work harder.

Sally, and the rest of the astrologers, re the Madness of the pResident, where do we see this ego inflation in his chart, where and how did it go from the normal content we all have to where it is now? Is this Pluto? Neptune? I certainly think the recounting of the Harvard years by Yoshi Tsurumi supports this diagnosis by Levy, so it shows up as a young adult. Add the reports of his blowing up frogs and other small creatures as a kid, and it seems as if he was born, not made....are sociopaths born? I think so. I won't even begin to get into the reincarnational dimensions....

Also, on Du the current Plame thread, "Come Together"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2359185

If you'd like to follow the story or put in your 2cents, you can do so there. And if you follow the link at the top to the 1st come together thread you will find a long list of media contacts.

Pat C.....the CBS story that got bounced...wow...this is just like the Russian nesting dolls....you open one, and there is another nested inside....crazy as hell, and sure to pop, I hope.

" kala sarpa yoga (malefic yoga)" the planets between the nodes.

Raj. I had forgotten you posted that before until you said something but I do remember it and should have called attention to it at the time, and you are right it is a highly malific aspect, in effect (except for the Moon) for awhile, but from Oct. 7 to the 14th it will once again be in effect.

M. you asked if we would go "back" in 2022, because what we thought we had in the past didn't exist and there will be a whole new generation by 2022 running the show. That generation will and does see the value of global cooperation because they grew up, through the internet, with a global and interactive mentality. They also grew up accepting violence toward one another. My hope is there will be a better balance between masculine and feminine expressions of self and a better understanding that we all have the capability of destroying the world and maybe it's a better idea not to do that. I think we are seeing the last gasp of an out of control Patrichary and we all have been culturally programmed to live with that kind of energy, even those who have advanced for the most part beyond it, there are still those little things that crop up in our interaction with others. I also hope that through the disillusionment of the next several years we will demand and get more honesty from our government.

So we won't be going back and it will be up to each one of us to make sure that what we are going toward will be better. Each of us has a part to play for a better world.

Stayed up late to catch Jon Stewarts The Daily Show last night, Marc Racicot (RNC gofer and Senator from Montana), said that Bush was better able to LEAD THE WORLD, excuse me? The WORLD may not want George leading them....how scary is that!

I think we are seeing the last gasp of an out of control Patrichary"

That is exactly what I wanted to know. Thank you Sally. It will, I'm sure, be a huge psychic transformation but so necessary if we are to avoid becomming the reality of 1984 or totally destroy this planet. I can see why there would be chaos and fear in the process for after all, most people "would rather burn in heel than change their minds".

US military drops charges, as Guantanamo espionage cases collapse.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0923/dailyUpdate.html

a message from God?
http://www.bartcop.com/message-from-god.gif

Pat C., re...B**h people "remembering" Cat Stevens...I've been picking up different little pieces of info from all the various articles posted, and one theme stands out. From the first King Geo to now, andger and retribution against perceived enemies is never forgotten and always avenged....Dan Rather, Cat Stevens, Clinton, Joe Wilson, you name them, there is a connection which goes back at least 16 years with B**h cartel....it is mafia like in its relentlessness.

Judi, absolutely.

Judi,
Absolutely. I had noted here, when Frances was hitting and Ivan on the way, about Karma in FL, I
think not only for voter fraud in 2000 but also,
the illegal shock and awe on innocent Iraqi children and women, how about shock and awe on red
FL for Karma(I'm sure I'll hear from some FL sympathizers as I did the last before, but I'm not aftraid to tell the bitter Truth unlike the shameless shrub,cheny,rummy and gansta)These arrogant ones can't escape Karma which is million times stronger in reach and effect than the stupid
ashy's stupid kangaroo law. By the way how these
shrub cronies are in the RED(red stands for commies, doesn't it?)After the reds in russia gave up the red color, shrub gangsta and supporters are now the hated reds!

re: GWB's Saturn return....

John Kerry: "Is he serious?"

old granny.... Bush will not be re-elected.... Grant also says in another chapter that Saturn descending below the horizon indicates an exit from public life.
Saturn rising above, as in John Kerry's case, speaks of a rise in power.

A little levity from Astro Am

This individual seeks an executive position. He will be available next January
and is willing to relocate.

1600 Pennsylvania Avenue
Washington, DC 20520

EDUCATION AND EXPERIENCE:

Law Enforcement:
I was arrested in Kennebunkport, Maine, in 1976 for driving under the
influence of alcohol. I pled guilty, paid a fine, and had my driver's
license suspended for 30 days. My Texas driving record has been "lost" and
is not available.

Military:
I joined the Texas Air National Guard and went AWOL. I refused to take a
drug test or answer any questions about my drug use. By joining the Texas
Air National Guard, I was able to avoid combat duty in Vietnam.

College:
I graduated from Yale University with a low C average. I was a cheerleader.

PAST WORK EXPERIENCE:
I ran for U.S. Congress and lost. I began my career in the oil business in
Midland, Texas, in 1975. I bought an oil company, but couldn't find any oil
in Texas. The company went bankrupt shortly after I sold all my
stock. I bought the Texas Rangers baseball team in a sweetheart deal that
took land using taxpayer money. With the help of my father and our friends
in the oil industry (including Enron CEO Ken Lay), I was elected
governor of Texas.

ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS GOVERNOR OF TEXAS:
I changed Texas pollution laws to favor power and oil companies,making
Texas the most polluted state in the Union. During my tenure,Houston
replaced Los Angeles as the most smog-ridden city in America.

I cut taxes and bankrupted the Texas treasury to the tune of billions in
borrowed money.

I set the record for the most executions by any governor in American
history.

ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS PRESIDENT:
I am the first President in U.S. history to enter office with a criminal
record.

I invaded and occupied two countries at a continuing cost of over one
billion dollars per week.

I spent the U.S. surplus and effectively bankrupted the U.S. Treasury.

I shattered the record for the largest annual deficit in U.S. history.

I set an economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any
12-month period.

I set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12-month period. I set
the all-time record for the biggest drop in the history of the U.S stock
market. In my first year in office, over 2 million Americans
lost their jobs and that trend continues every month.

I'm proud that the members of my cabinet are the richest of any
administration in U.S. history. My "poorest millionaire," Condoleeza Rice,
has a Chevron oil tanker named after her.

I set the record for most campaign fundraising trips by a U.S. President.

I am the all-time U.S. and world record-holder for receiving the most
corporate campaign donations.

My largest lifetime campaign contributor, and one of my best friends,
Kenneth Lay, presided over the largest corporate bankruptcy fraud in U.S.
History, Enron.

My political party used Enron private jets and corporate attorneys to
assure my success with the U.S. Supreme Court during my election decision.

I have protected my friends at Enron and Halliburton against investigation
or prosecution. More time and money was spent investigating the Monica
Lewinsky affair than has been spent investigating one of the biggest
corporate rip-offs in history. I presided over the biggest energy crisis in
U.S. history and refused to intervene when corruption involving the oil
industry was revealed.

I presided over the highest gasoline prices in U.S. history.

I changed the U.S. policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded
government contracts.

I appointed more convicted criminals to administration than any President
in U.S. history.

I created the Ministry of Homeland Security, the largest bureaucracy in the
history of the United States government.

I've broken more international treaties than any President in U.S.history.

I am the first President in U.S. history to have the United Nations remove
the U.S. from the Human Rights Commission.

I withdrew the U.S. from the World Court of Law.

I refused to allow inspector's access to U.S. "prisoners of war" detainees
and thereby have refused to abide by the Geneva Convention.

I set the record for fewest numbers of press conferences of any President
since the advent of television.

I set the all-time record for most days on vacation in any one-year period.
After taking off the entire month of August, I presided over the worst
security failure in U.S. history.

I garnered the most sympathy ever for the U.S. after the World Trade Center
attacks and less than a year later made the U.S. the most hated country in
the world, the largest failure of diplomacy in world history.

I have set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously
protest me in public venues (15 million people), shattering the record for
protests against any person in the history of mankind.

I am the first President in U.S. history to order an unprovoked,preemptive
attack and the military occupation of a sovereign nation. I did so against
the will of the United Nations, the majority of U.S.
citizens, and the world community.

I have cut health care benefits for war veterans and support a cut in duty
benefits for active duty troops and their families in wartime.

In my State of the Union Address, I lied about our reasons for attacking
Iraq and then blamed the lies on our British friends.

I am the first President in history to have a majority of Europeans (71%)
view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and security.

I am supporting development of a nuclear "Tactical Bunker Buster," a WMD.

I have so far failed to fulfill my pledge to bring Osama Bin Laden to
justice.

RECORDS AND REFERENCES:
All records of my tenure as governor of Texas are now in my father's
library, sealed and unavailable for public view.

All records of SEC investigations into my insider trading and my bankrupt
companies are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public
view.

All records or minutes from meetings that I, or my Vice-president, attended
regarding public energy policy are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for
public review.

I AM GEORGE W. BUSH. PLEASE CONSIDER MY EXPERIENCE WHEN VOTING IN 2004!

Any chance of finding out when the PNAC plan was signed, or the Bush Doctrine, so we can see charts?

I think these monsters moved too fast and self-aborted.

Another interesting thing:
someone made the observation that when Bush talks about murder, torture, etc., he speaks clearly. When talking about positive things, he falters.

Grant Lewi also states that dictatorship is associated with the fixed signs, democracy, with the mutables.

Well...spent a bit of time at DU and google news, etc....looks like the puny brained idiots of this rethug crowd in the House have passed a bill HR 2028 seeking to insure that the Pledge of Allegiance cannot be ruled on by the Supreme Court! Nancy Pelosi made a wonderful speech about the stupidity of it all...

Pelosi: With Pledge Bill, GOP Once Again Undermines Constitution
WASHINGTON, Sept. 23 /PRNewswire/ -- House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi spoke today on the House floor in strong opposition to the Pledge Protection Act, H.R. 2028. Below are her remarks as prepared for delivery:
"Mr. Speaker, with our troops in harm's way in Iraq, and with our country facing the clear and present danger of terrorism, there are great and grave issues that Congress must address. But what are we doing here today? Are we debating the 9/11 Commission recommendations to secure our nation? Are we providing health insurance to the millions of Americans who have lost their insurance under this President, providing jobs to the millions of unemployed Americans, and fully funding our schools?
"No, Mr. Speaker, instead we are gathering here once again to debate undermining the Constitution of the United States and dishonoring the oath of office that we take to protect and defend the Constitution.
"The bill before us claims to protect the Pledge of Allegiance. But protect the Pledge from what? Our Supreme Court has not undermined the constitutionality of the pledge. With the reversal of the Newdow case, there is only one major appeals court decision that has addressed the constitutionality of the pledge, and that court -- in the Seventh Circuit -- has upheld the Pledge.
"This is a piece of legislation in search of a solution for a problem that does not exist.
http://interestalert.com/brand/siteia.shtml?Story=st/sn...

Read that as burn in hell, though many of them are behaving like heels as well.

Thursday September 23, 2004
COUNTING THE DAYS
DAYS REMAINING IN THE * REGIME 119
DAYS UNTIL W* GETS HIS PINK SLIP 40
DAYS SINCE DEMOCRACY DIED (12/12/00) 3 YEARS, 286 DAYS
WHERE'S OSAMA BIN-LADEN? 2 YEARS, 340 DAYS
WHERE ARE SADDAM'S WMD? - DAY 553
DAYS SINCE ENRON COLLAPSE = 1036
Number of Enron Execs in handcuffs = 19
Recent Acquisitions: Ken Lay
ENRON EXECS CONVICTED = 2
Other Arrests of Execs = 54

Here's some fun...

http://www.commondreams.org/news2004/0923-21.htm

An ill wind blowing no good has arrived. Everyone should board up the windows....

Large explosion in Baghdad (right after Allawi conference) being reported on news...

But this is what I wanted to post: from MoveOn.org...an interesting development!!!

Today, we’re highlighting five Congressional candidates in tight races who are speaking out against the Iraq war. Together, we can reward these heroes for putting the best interest of the country first. Can you contribute to help put them in Congress? Donate now at:

Donate Now!

Dear MoveOn member,

Steve Brozak was angry when he returned from his tour of duty in Iraq last summer. A twenty-one year veteran of the U.S. Marine Corps and Marine Reserves, Brozak felt that he and his friends who put their lives on the line had been misled. Now, instead of getting mad, Steve Brozak is running for Congress.

And he's not alone. All across the country, candidates are running for Congress to make sure that what happened in Iraq never happens again. It's a courageous stand: Republicans are quick to attack and smear anyone who speaks out against the war. So it's up to us to reward these heroes who have put the best interest of the country first.

This week, we've picked out five great candidates in very close races who are steadfastly opposed to the war in Iraq. Can you help put these folks in Congress?

Actually Judi, democracy as we thought we had it started dieing with the GOP contract on America. I have been watching the faces of the people who are representing the neocons on CNN today, and I am struck by the bufoonish demeanor they have as they yell over everyone else. How they ever got into office is stunning. I can't imagine what someone in Europe thinks when they watch some of these programs. Those in China are probably happy, knowing that global takeover is just that much closer for them if we keep putting these buffoons in power.

Of course they have raised the color code today form now until election day. Beware, of marshall law.

The power of freepers...not to mention, Pat C., more retribution from the Bush administration, this one named Richard Thornburg. Clearly he should recuse himself from investigating Rather.
Affiliates deluged with e-mail calling for Rather's ouster

DAVID BAUDER, AP Television Writer Thursday, September 23, 2004

------------------------------------------------------------------------

(09-23) 13:13 PDT NEW YORK (AP) --

Station managers at several CBS affiliates said Thursday they appear to be a target of a national e-mail campaign placing pressure on the network to oust Dan Rather as anchorman of the "CBS Evening News."

The anger stems from Rather's role in a "60 Minutes" report on President Bush's service in the National Guard. CBS has apologized for reporting on documents critical of Bush's service, widely assumed now as fakes, and appointed a panel to investigate what went wrong in the report.

Many e-mailers offer the same message: I will not watch CBS News again until Rather is gone, said Bob Lee, president and general manager of WDBJ-TV in Roanoke, Va., and head of the CBS affiliate board.

"To be honest, I'm most concerned when the e-mail is coming from a local viewer," said Gary Gardner, vice president and general manager of WINK-TV in Fort Myers, Fla.

Lee said he can't recall any other issue getting such a big response from viewers.

Station managers take such a response very seriously. They are, in effect, Rather's constituency and several said they're eager to see what former U.S. Attorney General Dick Thornburgh and former Associated Press chief executive Louis D. Boccardi turn up in their probe of CBS News operations.

The campaign appears to originate from a blogger on the Web site, Rathergate.com, who is forwarding e-mails to stations around the country.

"The buck has to stop," said Mike Krempasky of Falls Church, Va., who works for a political advertising company and set up Rathergate.com, as well as the conservative-oriented Web site, Redstate.org.

"He's certainly the face of the story," he said. "He's the one who sneered at anyone who dared criticize him on the story for 10 days. He's the one who put his credibility on the line when he said he believed in the story."

Meanwhile, Rather was not commenting Thursday on a story in The New York Times, quoting sources that requested anonymity, that he was unhappy that Thornburgh was appointed as half of the two-man panel investigating CBS News. Thornburgh is a Republican former governor of Pennsylvania and was attorney general for the Reagan and first Bush administrations.

He was the attorney general when Rather conducted a memorably combative interview with Bush as he was running for president.

A Rather spokeswoman said the veteran anchor will cooperate fully in the probe.

In the same Times story, Rather was quoted as pointing out that his boss, CBS News President Andrew Heyward, was fully involved with him in the handling of the story.

I still say there is something going on here which ties into PlameGate...which is the story that should have been broadcast by Rather rather than the bush military records....speaking of RETHUG FORGED DOCUMENTS.....YELLOWCAKE !

Joe, The war in Iraq may have been the right thing to do but, right now it is not being handled right.
War is a difficult and serious thing, and needs to be done very carefully.

Judi, of course they have started an e-mail campaign.It's what they do. E-mail can make them look like there is more of them than actually exist. It's what they do. It's what they have always done. We all know now, and aren't fooled.

DNFTEC

Do Not Feed The Energy Creature.

Another non sourced email that came my way, but it's good.

From John Shelby Spong, retired Episcopal Bishop of New Jersey :

The Republican Convention in New York City forced me to face the fact that my feelings about the Bush Administration have reached a visceral negativity, the intensity of which surprises even me. So I decided to search introspectively to identify its source. Is it simply runaway partisanship? That is certainly how it sounds to many who make that charge publicly, but that has not been my history. I did not react this way to other Republican presidents like Eisenhower, Nixon, Ford or Reagan. My feelings are quite specifically Bush related.

I first became aware of them in 1988 when George H. W. Bush's campaign employed the Willie Horton ad against Michael Dukakis. This dirty trick was successful and the insinuation entered the body politic that to be the governor of a multi-racial state where all were treated fairly meant that you favored freeing black criminals to commit murder. Lee Atwater, mentor of Karl Rove, devised that campaign. The Willie Horton episode said to me that these people believed that no dishonest tactic was to be avoided if it helped your candidate to victory.

The next manifestation of this mentality came in the South Carolina primary in George W. Bush's campaign in 2000, when the patriotism of John McCain was viciously attacked. It appeared that five years as a prisoner of war in North Vietnam was not sufficient to prove one's loyalty to America. The third episode came when the operatives of this administration destroyed Georgia's Senator Max Cleland in 2002, by accusing him of being soft on national security, despite the fact that this veteran had lost three of his limbs in the service of his country. Each of these attacks brought defeat to its victims but they also brought defeat to truth and integrity.

In 2004 we have seen the pattern repeated. John Kerry, a veteran who served with honor and distinction in Vietnam was told in countless surrogate ads that his service was not worthy and that his three purple hearts and his Silver Star for heroism were cheaply won. For a candidate who ducked military service by securing a preferential appointment to the Texas National Guard, part of which was served in Alabama, this takes gall indeed.

Then Senator Zell Miller, his face contorted with anger, recited a litany of weapons systems that he said Senator Kerry had opposed. What he failed to say was that most of these military cuts were recommended by a Secretary of Defense named Richard Cheney in the first Bush Administration! The last time I looked, the Ten Commandments still included an injunction against bearing false witness.

Yes, other campaigns bend the truth but these tactics go beyond just bending, they assassinate character and suggest traitorous behavior. When that is combined with the fact that this party does this while proclaiming itself the party of religion, cultural values and faith-based initiatives is the final straw for me. I experience the religious right as a deeply racist enterprise that seeks to hide its intolerance under the rhetoric of super patriotism and "family values." For those who think that this is too strong a charge or too out of bounds politically, I invite you to look at the record.

It was George H. W. Bush who gave us Clarence Thomas on the Supreme Court, calling him "the most qualified person in America." Thomas replaced Thurgood Marshall, who had been the legal hero to black Americans during the struggle over segregation. Clarence Thomas, the opponent of every governmental program that made his own life possible, is today an embarrassment to blacks in America. To appoint a black man to do the racist work against black people is demonic. Consistent with that pattern, this administration entered an amicus brief against the University of Michigan's Law School because in the quest for a representative student body that Law School used race as one factor in determining admissions. The strange 'Orwellian' rhetoric again was deceiving. "We want America to be a nation where race is not counted for anything and all are to be judged on merit alone." Those are fair sounding words until one factors in centuries of slavery and segregation, or the quality of public education in urban America which just happens to be predominantly black. Next one cannot help noticing the concerted Republican effort to limit black suffrage in many states like Florida where it has been most overt, and to deny the power of the ballot to all the citizens of Washington, D.C. Does anyone doubt that the people of Washington have no vote for any other reason than that they are overwhelmingly black?

Only when I touched these wells of resentment, did I discover how deeply personal my feelings are about the Bushes. I grew up in the southern, religious world they seek to exploit. I went to a church that combined piety with segregation, quoted the Bible to keep women in secondary positions, and encouraged me to hate both my enemies and other religions, especially Jews. It taught me that homosexual people choose their lifestyle because they are either mentally sick or morally depraved. I hear these same definitions echoed in the pious phrases of those who want to "defend marriage against the gay onslaught." Are the leaders of this party the only educated people who seem not to know that their attitudes about homosexuality are uninformed? People no more choose their sexual orientation than they choose to be left-handed! To play on both ignorance and fear for political gain is a page lifted right out of the racial struggle that shaped my region. Racism simply hides today under new pseudonyms.

I lived in Lynchburg, Virginia, before Jerry Falwell rose to national prominence. He was a race baiting segregationist to his core. Liberty Baptist College began as a segregation academy. Super patriot Falwell condemned Nelson Mandela as a 'communist' and praised the apartheid regime in South Africa as a 'bulwark for Christian civilization.' I have heard Pat Robertson attack the movement to give equality to women by referring to feminists as Lesbians who want to destroy the family, while quoting the Bible to defeat the Equal Rights Amendment. The homophobic rhetoric that spews so frequently out of the mouths of these "Jesus preaching" right-wingers has been mentioned time and again as factors that encourage hate crimes.

I am aware that the former Chief Justice Roy Moore of Alabama, famous for his attempt to place a three-ton monument of the Ten Commandments in his Montgomery courthouse to the delight of southern preachers, is on record as saying that homosexuality is inherently evil."

I lived through the brutality that greeted the civil rights movement in the South during its early days. Congressman John Lewis of Atlanta can tell you what it means to be beaten into unconsciousness on a "freedom ride." I remember the names of Southerners who covered their hate-filled racism with the blanket of religion to enable them to win the governors' mansions in the deep South: John Patterson and George Wallace in Alabama, Ross Barnett in Mississippi, Orville Faubus in Arkansas, Mills Godwin in Virginia and Strom Thurmond in South Carolina. I know the religious dimensions of North Carolina that kept Jesse Helms in the Senate for five terms. Now we have learned that Strom Thurmond, who protected segregation in the Senate when he could not impose it by winning the presidency in 1948, also fathered a daughter by an underage black girl. I know that Congressman Robert Barr of Georgia, who introduced the Defense of Marriage Act in 1988, has been married three times. I know that Pat Robertson's Congressman in Norfolk, Ed Schrock, courted religious votes while condemning homosexual people until he was outed as a gay man and was forced to resign his seat.

I know that the bulk of the voters from the Religious Right today are the George Wallace voters of yesterday, who simply transformed their racial prejudices and called them "family values." That mentality is now present in this administration. It starts with the President, embraces the Attorney General John Ashcroft and spreads out in every direction.

I have known Southern mobs that have acted in violence against black people while couching that violence in the sweetness of Evangelical Christianity. I abhor that kind of religion. I resent more than I can express the fact that my Christ has been employed in the service of this mentality. My Christ, who refused to condemn the woman taken in the act of adultery; my Christ who embraced the lepers, the most feared social outcasts of his day; my Christ who implored us to see the face of God in the faces of "the least of these our brothers and sisters;" my Christ who opposed the prejudice being expressed against the racially impure Samaritans, is today being used politically to dehumanize others by those who play on base instincts.

David Halberstam, in his book on the Civil Rights movement entitled The Children, quotes Lyndon Johnson talking with Bill Moyers right after the Voting Rights Act of 1965 had passed by large margins in the Congress of the United States. This positive vote followed the arousing of the public's consciousness by the Abu Ghraib-like use of dogs and fire hoses on black citizens in Alabama. Klan groups, under the direct protection of Southern State Troopers and local police, had also attacked blacks with baseball bats and lead pipes in public places, which had been seen on national television. Moyers expected to find President Johnson jubilant over this legislative victory. Instead he found the President strangely silent. When Moyers enquired as to the reason, Johnson said rather prophetically, "Bill, I've just handed the South to the Republicans for fifty years, certainly for the rest of our life times."

That is surely correct. Bush's polls popped after his convention. It is now his election to lose. The combination of super patriotism with piety, used in the service of fear to elicit votes while suppressing equality works, but it is lethal for America and lethal for Christianity. It may be a winning formula but it has no integrity and it feels dreadful to this particular Christian.

-- John Shelby Spong

Joe, It really is hard to know the truth about what is going on with the war since we are not there. I think we should be careful with our decisions.
I, personally, Trust Kerry because he has first-hand experience with war, and I believe he would sincerely do his best in handling this one.

teresa, Joe is a freeper. He's been here before, and it is always unfortunate.

One headline at the Guardian says Britain is withdrawing troops from Iraq...and another "leak" from Downing Street exposes the lies of Blair and Bush

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/politics/story/0,6903,1307888,00.html

Iraq leak has Blair back in firing line

Secret memos warned of new dictators and a lack of post-invasion strategy

Gaby Hinsliff
Sunday September 19, 2004
The Observer

Tony Blair was last night forced on to the defensive over Iraq after explosive leaked documents revealed that he was warned a year before the invasion that a war could send the country into meltdown.

The Prime Minister was advised by officials that the country risked 'reverting to type' - with a succession of military coups installing a dictator who could then go on to acquire his own weapons of mass destruction - and that British troops would be trapped in Iraq 'for many years'.

Even his own foreign policy adviser, Sir David Manning, concluded in a private note that President Bush had no answer to the big questions about the invasion - including 'what happens on the morning after?' The memos, showing how detailed military planning was even a year before the invasion, will prompt renewed questions about whether better planning for the aftermath of war could have prevented the bloodshed now engulfing Iraq.

Teresa b, don't believe everything you read....especially if it is freeper Joe's propaganda.

Shade...terrific piece by the Rev. Spong...quite a good piece of history.

Pat C.....feeling the need for a coupla ghostbusters?

http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/04/09/con04394.html

Beware False Prophets

viws are personal, and they may all have an element of truth.

As I said, from the information I have gathered, and I do admit that it is hard to find all the facts , I still hold that Kerry is truly behind the troops and will serve them well.

If I can't convince everyone of that, all I hope is that others just consider it a possibility.

by the way, Teresa b., you are completely mistaken about going into Iraq "being the right thing to do"....you need to check the Constitution more closely on how many laws bushit knocked over trying to take out Saddam. The "right thing to do" ? Poppycock, to quote you.Well, I will take Teg's advice from a while back and stop before I shake more than I am now.

Once again.. I stand corrected. I jumped the gun without thinking it through.

Rants on those red commies of shrubs, Ivan cleaned them up in FL but son of Ivan is going to knock'em out and take care of them in shrub state
TX!

Oh... and if could please, please tolerate my Mars in Libra, which is being blasted at the moment. It is at zero degrees. Thanks.

Teresa, Joe isn't even in America, he is a freeper designed to disrupt sites or create arguments. They always come out when things are really bad for Bush. Please don't bother arguing with him.

OK...

Peace and later....

Word Sally.

Hey joe, the war was a crime, so you getoutta here
don't give us this s***, crap, take and deliver that to limbaugh and other sobs!

Oh I am definitely feeling Pluto today, lol.

Crouch Time
A holy fire-breather is embroiled in scandal over rumors of a homosexual affair. Meet televangelist Paul Crouch.
Max Blumenthal
09.22.04
http://www.prospect.org/web/page.ww?section=root&name=ViewWeb&articleId=8589

Throughout his three-decade-long career as founder and president of the world's largest religious broadcasting company, Trinity Broadcasting Network (TBN), Paul Crouch has earned a reputation for preaching about the wrath of God, even delivering holy death threats to his critics, as he did in 1991 when he told them, "To hell with you! Get out of the way! I say get out of God's way! Quit blocking God's bridges or God's going to shoot you if I don't."

Yet when allegations surfaced in reports by William Lobdell of the Los Angeles Times last weekend that Crouch had had a gay tryst with a former employee, he stayed out of public view, delegating his eldest son, Paul Crouch Jr., to appeared in his place as host of Behind the Scenes, a show that focuses on activities within the TBN. Crouch Jr. limited his discussion to an altogether different storm rocking the ministry:
Hurricane Ivan, which was threatening TBN affiliates in the Caribbean. Meanwhile, the TBN issued a lengthy press release calling the gay-sex allegations "salacious" and predicting that "[t]his storm will pass."

more..

I'm answering my earlier question about the first scheduled presidential debate. It's to take place in Coral Gables, FL at 8:00 p.m. CST on September 30th.

How does that look for Kerry that night?

....and why does the danger from terror and threfore terror alert end on inauguration day?

Because if there is any attempt to recount the votes, they need to be able to throw up a national emergency to bring the attempt to a screeching halt.

Susan, wouldn't that be EDT?

Pat C....don't know HOW you found the False Prophet piece so quickly but it is perfect!

Shylurker, just found a source for E.L. Doctorow piece over at Starcats, from Claudia D.

http://www.easthamptonstar.com/20040909/col5.htm

Neener neener neener....Kerry must be rockin' the vote....Judi

Look at that! How amazing -- and eerily appropriate -- that we would get real honest-to-"goodness" White Noise in response to an article titled White Noise. It'd make me laugh if it weren't so darn sad. :-) Pay attention, people. This is how the Repugs distract you from their overwhelming and god-awful embarassing list of Failures. Don't fall for it. And don't waste time feeding it.

There really are no words for such insanity Jonathan.

Pat C. - the time posted as 9:00 PM EDT. So it would be 8:00 PM CDT. (I think I had indicated standard time instead of daylight).

You silly children. It's almost time for dinner.

Who appointed the freeper as the person who is supposed to "balance" a web site? Was it YOU Mike, when you were appointing people to the galaxy appointments? Could you rescind this appointment Mike? Well, no, I know you didn't...

What gall! Sally, I'm having a meltdown!!!! What unmitigated gall. Hopefully, Sally, I can do this breakdown for you so that you don't have to...now I am throwing things....

A lump of coal in my Christmas stocking....wow, how appropriate, right? that is what we will all have if Beezelbubble "wins"....I just love it when people point nasty, knotted up fingers at other people, forgetting that their own are, at the same time, pointing back at them.

White noise, white noise, white noise.....zzzzzzzzzzzz

http://www.grandquintiles.co.uk/

Anyone familiar with this Grand Quintiles 2004 site?

Apparently there are two GQs in October.

Sally?

Tofu... ugh!!
sprouted wheat bread...eeeewh.
ice cream, if you are good.
and tropical punch kool-aid.

I'll be in the kitchen and unavailable, so I'll talk with you later.

Pat C., I am not Sally....but I know that my astrology teacher turned me on to a simple quintile in my chart between Neptune and my Moon....he said it was an aspect of inspiration....in reinterpreting it my chart, it would mean that my mother had a lot to do with my using Neptune as an artistic experience - I can imagine that a grand quintile would be really terrific.But as I said, I am not sure...just my 2 cents.

shrub/rowe crony surprise is releasing oil from
straegic sources to manipulate the price of oil,
since the last 2 days, dow down 210 points and a lor furhter down like 1000-2000 points to go befor
Nov.2. So crooks releasing oil(before they refused
to bring down oil price saying it is bowing to terrorist pressure, how about now?) as long as aiding to win election, no way jose.

Thank you Judi! Another interesting aspect to study.

Raj, I have a question for you about the malefic influences you were talking about with the nodes kala sarpa yoga (malefic yoga)

If the nodes are 180 deg. appart, and planets are between those nodes, (I am having trouble describing this), which 180 deg. "side" are you speaking of? For instance, I have 17 Leo north node in 10th, 17 deg Aquarius south node in 4th....is it the houses from 4 to 10 or from 10 to 4 which are affected? Or do you only speak of planets which are in conjunction with those nodes?

"Power always thinks it has a great soul and vast views beyond the comprehension of the weak; and that it is doing God's service when it is violating all his laws." -John Adams

Excellent Judi.

Hey all, About the mentality of Freepers.
Someone on DU posted that he wanted to fight the DUers because a smaller site just ignored him.

Here's a real troll hidey-hole just big enough for someone with an unused teenie weenie = you-know-who.
htpp://www.ksfp2004.blogspot.com.
It belongs to the kid who kicked the Act Up woman at the RNC while she was restrained by 3 Secret Servicemen. The kid is busted and hiding out. Watch how his buds defend him with White Noise and distract the angry people calling for justice by blaming the people. See how the people are not taking their arrogant crap.

I just skimmed a web site which was posted in the ICH newsletter...it is:

Israel and Palestine, Choosing Sides:

The most monumental cover-up in media history may be the one I‚m about to describe. In my entire experience with American journalism, I have never found anything as extreme, sustained, and omnipresent.
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/media/sides.html

I didn't read all of it as I said....but what I saw while skimming is further proof that Americans are being KEPT asleep at the wheel....surely, we wouldn't want people to KNOW all this stuff, would we? I mean, they might be too upset to function knowing they are being kept soothed and fluffed so that they could go on being good consumers voting for the status quo of their dreadful dreams.....while someone else is living out the nightmares.

Florida folk--if there is a possibility of your power going out in the next few days start now rinsing out milk jugs, plastic bottles--any container with tight top that contained drinkables or eatables. Fill about 3/4 full of water and put in the freezer. The largest container that you can lift is best. You'll have ice that won't drip and is easy to share with neighbors. Just call me "old cracker."

Bhakti, can't access that little teeney weeney URL....don't knolw why, but IE won't go there. Says it doesn't have "the protocol"....

Judi,
Good question. In Vedic chart as you go clock wise
say from Aries, ascendant in this case for shrub, I think is cancer and one node Rahu is there and naturally Ketu will be in Capricorn(180 from Cance
and all the planets are hemmed in between cancer
and capricorn for shrub for the BIG downfall in FALL.Don't worry Judi, you won't have it(only with
lots of BAD karma like tricky dick, shrub, cheny, rummy, ashy all have it)

I am amused at Bush's taking umbrage at Kerry's supposedly insulting a foreign leader (Alawi). At last count Bush had managed to insult the leaders of well over half the world. (I lost count after he went after Putin, his former beloved soulmate!) Besides, I'm not quite sure if Alawi counts as a foreign chief of state....I kinda thought he was the public face provided for Negreponte.

When I say "amused", I mean it in the intellectual sense only. Believe me, I'm not laughing.

Helen......I think tofu and sprouted wheat bread are really good things, but I NEVER drink kool-aid.

Raj....thanks....I think I already did most of my bad Karma anyway, in 1990, 1991....enlightening, tho...
Teg...wise move...Koolaid is bad for the health, no?

And how, judi! I heard it can kill you!

Teg, I think that is an exceptionally wise decision. You must protect your health. More power to you.

Just when you think that Grover Norquist can sink no lower, he opens his mouth.  In an interview with Spanish paper El Mundo, Norquist hit a new low. When asked if he thought the Democratic Party was coming to an end, Norquist told Pablo Pardo of El Mundo:

"Yes, because in addition their demographic base is shrinking.  Each year, 2 million people who fought in the Second World War and lived through the Great Depression die. This generation has been an exeception in American history, because it has defended anti-American policies.  They voted for the creation of the welfare state and obligatory military service. They are the base of the Democratic Party. And they are dying. And, at the same time, all the time more Americans have stocks. That makes them defend the interests of business, because it is their own interest. Because of that, it's impossible to bring to the fore policies of social hate, of class warfare."

That's right, the Bush camp is cheering on the death of America's Greatest Generation. Are they trying to channel the spirit of Joseph McCarthy? Have they no sense of shame?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/9/20/212529/479

Quintiles were introduced in the 17th Century by Johann Kepler who also contributed to astrology by naming and researching the semi-square, sesqui-square (inconjunct) and the septile. They have to do with the Harmonics of astrology and the harmonics can go into infinity. I have found them to be creative for the most part however Kepler identified them to be prominent in the charts of both criminals and victims of violence. They were also considered to symbolize an alignment with the Will of the Cosmos, meaning basically what is happening in one's life with a lot of quintile's is supposed to happen whether it's a person or country, they are very connected to the mind or how we receive and process information. There is an upper and lower process of the quintile.

The astrologer Addey linked the 5th harmonic (the quintile relates to the 5th harmonic) with impairment of the mind, such as nervous disorders, defects of the senses, brain damage. Most people have maybe one or two, I do have a client with 5 (very rare) and he is extremely single minded and it's hard for him to see things any other way. His thought processes are unique, but quite fixed. He's the kind that would be happy making the same "widget" over and over and over for 40 years.

Women freeps also have unused troll hidey -holes.Probably to match their teenie-weenie IQs.

Judi try:
http://ksfp2004.blogspot.com/2004/09/kicker.html#comments

It is so overwhelmingly distressing to me to hear of all this anomosity toward Dan Rather. I listened to Dick Gordon earlier this week. Had on two veteran journalists about this CBS story. It is all designed to take the attention off the subject matter (Bush's Guard Service) and put it on Rather to deflect the truth from the people. The more Rather/CBS is talked about, the less Bush's record is discussed. Rather should not have to resign. All journalists make mistakes. He is only a news reader. He did not investigate the story from what I have read.

DOES ANYONE KNOW OF OR HAVE A WEB ADDRESS WHERE WE CAN GO TO EXPRESS OUR OUTRAGE AND SUPPORT RATHER/CBS?
For you Bill Moyer fans: He will do a PRI "Human Kind" program with David Froidberg this week. Subject: Journalism. Shows don't get any better than "Human Kind".

Pat C, over the last awful 3plus year, the Bush regime has shown, they have NO shame. Nada. These are morally corrupt souls.

This is long, but I'm so sorry, I thought it important and I was worried the link would not work since I paid for the subscription. Here's the link:
http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml%3Fi%3D20041004%26s%3Drosen100404

BUSH V. GORE, ROUND 2.
Rematch
by Jeffrey Rosen

Post date: 09.23.04
Issue date: 10.04.04
It's November 2, and the presidential election looks close in Ohio. An army of lawyers are dispatched by the Bush and Kerry campaigns to scour all 11,614 precincts in the state for any hint of voting irregularities. Within hours, both sides have filed competing suits in state courts challenging the standards for counting provisional, absentee, and military ballots, as well as for the use of different voting machines. Within days, Laurence Tribe and James Baker are filing petitions to the Supreme Court, arguing that Bush v. Gore--the case that decided the 2000 election--compels the justices to intervene. The justices, who once confidently predicted that Bush v. Gore would have no effect on future elections, are horrified. Even the Bush v. Gore dissenters are shocked at the mess the decision has created. After all, Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg called Bush v. Gore a "one-of-a-kind case" as recently as February 2003 in a speech to San Diego law students, adding optimistically, "I doubt it will ever be cited as precedent by the court on anything."

Unfortunately, the hopes that Bush v. Gore would fade from memory like an embarrassing dinner guest have proved to be wildly mistaken. And, if the election is close, the nightmare scenario described above seems all too likely to come to pass. During the four years since Bush v. Gore, the case has emboldened political candidates to file a tangle of litigation challenging election procedures in federal and state races--from the recall of Governor Gray Davis in California to the replacement of Senator Robert Torricelli in New Jersey. Moreover, in response to the legalization of politics that has followed Bush v. Gore, Democratic and Republican legal swat teams have been assembled to challenge the results of the 2004 presidential election if the vote in any state proves close enough to provide the margin of victory in the electoral college. And, even if the presidential election is not close, Bush v. Gore will continue to haunt congressional and local elections in November and beyond. "You could have dozens or even hundreds of cases filed on the Wednesday morning after the election," says Jack Goldsmith of Harvard Law School. "Given the litigation opportunities in Bush v. Gore, you could have real, real uncertainty for many weeks and months, not only about national elections but about local elections. And it's likely to get worse."

Bush v. Gore, you may recall, stopped the manual recounts in Florida during the last presidential election for two reasons. Seven justices held that Florida's failure to adopt uniform standards for recounting "undervotes"--that is, ballots on which no vote was clearly registered--violated a novel and previously unrecognized constitutional right: the right of each ballot to be counted in precisely the same way. Because five justices thought there was no time to conduct a uniform recount, they said none could take place. But, because they also failed to define precisely what kind of equality they thought the Constitution required, their opinion seemed to be tailored only to decide the 2000 presidential election. Three justices also said that the decision by the Florida Supreme Court to change the standards for recounting ballots violated Article 2 of the Constitution, which assigns control over presidential elections to the state legislatures.

Throughout U.S. history, of course, close elections have been followed by litigation. But Bush v. Gore has exponentially increased the legalization of politics. "There's no question that Bush v. Gore has made courts more open and sensitive generally to claims about voting breakdown," says Robert F. Bauer, who is coordinating postelection legal challenges as national counsel for the Democratic National Committee. The decision has been cited in more than 30 lower court opinions during the past four years and invoked in challenges to nearly every close election.

Moreover, Bush v. Gore has made candidates far more aggressive in preparing for litigation. To contest the Florida recount in 2000, Democrats and Republicans assembled legal teams on the fly. By contrast, in anticipation of a protracted legal battle this November, both the Bush and Kerry campaigns have made elaborate preparations. The Bush campaign plans to have party lawyers in every state, including more than 30,000 precincts. And the Kerry campaign has set up an unprecedented national legal network involving more than 10,000 volunteer attorneys who are already preparing litigation over voting machines, voter registration rules, and questions over which ballots are counted or disqualified. "Every counting rule in every one of the key states is already in a binder," says Bauer. "All of the background work has already been done so we don't have the scramble that inevitably occurred in Florida."

What's striking about the legal strategies of the Bush and Kerry swat teams is how much they plan to rely on Bush v. Gore, which turns out to be an inexhaustible font of rhetoric and novel lawsuits. The first set of possible challenges involves claims similar to those at the heart of the Florida mess in 2000--arguing that each individual voter has the right to have his or her vote counted in precisely the same way. When the Court invented this right in Bush v. Gore, it was hard to fathom what the justices had in mind, since the claim that each state had to have uniform voting standards was impossible to reconcile with local control of the electoral process, where there is enormous variation among voting technology, hours of poll access, and rules about the disqualification of ballots.

But the fact that no one knows what Bush v. Gore means is an invitation to litigation. For example, the Help America Vote Act, passed by Congress in 2002 to avoid another Florida debacle, requires states to allow voters who claim they have been wrongly denied access to the polls to cast "provisional ballots," whose status will be adjudicated later. Citing Bush v. Gore, among other authorities, the Democratic National Committee is already supporting suits in Florida and Missouri challenging state officials' decisions not to count provisional ballots unless they are cast in the voter's home precinct. Ohio, another swing state, initially announced that it didn't plan to count provisional ballots cast in the wrong precinct, but Ohio's secretary of state recently changed his mind. His office expressed concern, however, that 88 Ohio counties have developed 88 different systems for determining which provisional ballots should be counted. Under Bush v. Gore, any variation in the treatment of provisional ballots between counties could provoke a flurry of challenges.

And challenges to provisional ballots are only one of any number of possible postelection lawsuits alleging that individual ballots are being treated unequally. In John Ashcroft's 2000 race against Mel Carnahan's widow, for example, the polls were kept open in some precincts beyond the statutory closing time--and, as Elizabeth Garrett of the University of Southern California has noted, the decision was questioned under Bush v. Gore. This year, Secretary of Homeland Security Tom Ridge has expressed concern that a terrorist attack might disrupt the election. If an attack were to shut down polls in one part of a state but not another, would the courts allow the election to be extended? No one knows. And, of course, if there are calls for manual recounts in any of the battleground states, there could be a repeat of the Florida debacle, since many states have not heeded the Supreme Court's suggestion to adopt uniform standards for identifying voter intent during a recount.

he right to have every individual ballot counted alike is the first category of challenges Bush v. Gore has spawned. But soon after the decision came down, a second category of lawsuits began citing the decision for a very different principle: Variation in voting technology disadvantages minority groups. Since Bush v. Gore, scholars have established that optical scanners have a lower error rate than the punch-card machines prevalent in urban areas that contain large numbers of minority voters. And lawsuits challenging the use of punch-card technology have been filed in California, Georgia, Florida, and Illinois (where, in 2002, a district court cited Bush v. Gore for the first time in questioning the use of punch cards). In the forthcoming presidential election, there are pending lawsuits over punch cards in swing states like Ohio. The suits are unlikely to be resolved before November 2, which means that the use of punch cards could be grounds for litigation after the fact if the election is close.

Finally, there is a third category of possible Bush v. Gore challenges in cases where courts or local officials have changed election procedures. In Bush v. Gore, three justices--William Rehnquist, Antonin Scalia, and Clarence Thomas--insisted that the Florida Supreme Court's decision to change the standards for manually recounting ballots violated Article II of the Constitution, which they said gives the state legislature exclusive control over electoral arrangements in presidential elections. Making a similar argument, New Jersey Republicans challenged the New Jersey Supreme Court's decision to allow Frank Lautenberg to appear on the ballot as a replacement for Torricelli, even though New Jersey law was ambiguous about whether ballots could be changed if a vacancy occurred fewer than 60 days before an election. In November, if either the presidential election or any congressional election results in a state court decision setting the electoral rules, these decisions might also be challenged along the lines that Rehnquist, Scalia, and Thomas suggested.

And, whether or not the presidential election is close, one lawsuit may well loom on the horizon. On November 2, Colorado voters will consider an initiative that would allocate the state's electoral college votes proportionally among Bush and Kerry--rather than awarding all of them to the winning candidate. If the initiative passes, it's likely to be challenged as a violation of the state legislature's prerogative to determine election procedures.

t is easy to blame the justices who joined the majority in Bush v. Gore for their hypocrisy in radically accelerating the legalization of politics. Scalia, for example, opportunistically joined Justice Anthony Kennedy's opinion, which held that Florida's failure to adopt uniform standards for manual recounts violated the equal protection of the law. But Scalia can't really believe this, because, in the rest of his jurisprudence, he has repeatedly denounced the dramatic expansion of litigation that results from attempts to apply the vague commands of the equal protection clause to contested elections.

In an important case just last April, Scalia wrote a plurality opinion arguing that partisan gerrymanders--that is, cases where the majority in a state legislature draws an electoral map for the specific purpose of protecting its own incumbents and minimizing the strength of its opponents--should not be subject to judicial review. Because challenges to partisan gerrymanders have produced a great deal of litigation with unpredictable results, and because judges have been unable to agree on how to determine if a gerrymander is partisan, Scalia wrote, the issues should be regarded as "political questions" to be regulated exclusively by legislatures, not courts. Of course, if Scalia applied the same standard in Bush v. Gore, he would have agreed with Justice Stephen Breyer that it, too, was a "political question" to be resolved by Congress rather than the Supreme Court: The justices in the majority couldn't agree on a coherent standard for identifying equal protection violations, and, as a result, lower courts have produced a confusing set of competing standards that threaten to tie elections in knots.

The litigation provoked by Bush v. Gore also shows how wrong Scalia was to insist in 2000 that only the U.S. Supreme Court could save the country from the activism of the Florida Supreme Court. In fact, both Congress and the Florida state legislature were ready to step in if given the chance. If the Supreme Court had made clear in 2000 that all electoral disputes should be considered "political questions" to be decided by political bodies rather than lower courts, then it would have saved the country from the litigation mess that now menaces all future elections.

But it would be wrong to criticize conservatives alone for having turned our national elections into legal feeding frenzies. Democratic lawyers and scholars who denounced Bush v. Gore were quick to invoke it after the California recount when it suited their purposes, and they will be quick to invoke it again in November if the election is close. Furthermore, Democratic justices have shown little hesitation about proposing intrusive judicial oversight of contested elections, even though the standards they suggest are as vague as those in Bush v. Gore. In the partisan gerrymandering case, for example, Justices Breyer, John Paul Stevens, and David Souter proposed three different standards for identifying unconstitutional partisan gerrymandering, even though none of them was able to define precisely how much protection for incumbents should be considered unfair.

Far from being an aberration, Bush v. Gore is the epitome of what Richard L. Hasen of Loyola Law School has called the third phase of electoral litigation. The first phase, in the 1960s, announced that "one man, one vote" was a constitutional requirement. Emphasizing the right to an equally weighted vote, the Court forced the states to create electoral districts with nearly equal numbers of voters. The second phase, which began in the 1970s, focused on the right to an equally meaningful vote. Declaring that certain electoral arrangements--such as at-large elections--might make it harder for minorities to elect representatives of their choice, the Court came close to declaring a constitutional right to proportional representation. And, when the Court stepped back from this precipice, Congress in 1982 created a federal right for minorities to elect representatives of their choice. This led to an unlikely alliance of GOP operatives and minority rights advocates who supported the creation of minority districts, effectively isolating Democratic voters in the South.

In response, the Court inaugurated in the 1990s the third phase of electoral litigation. In Shaw v. Reno in 1993, it declared that oddly shaped voting districts created for the benefit of minorities might be unconstitutional not because they violated the right to an equally weighted or equally meaningful vote, but because they sent a message to white voters that their concerns might not be taken seriously. The Court had difficulty defining precisely what was wrong with these districts, aside from the fact that they looked funny, and, for a decade, the borders of nearly every minority voting district in the country were considered tentative until Justice Sandra Day O'Connor decided whether their shape was so bizarre as to be unconstitutional. After reigning for a decade as aesthetic adjudicator of every minority district in the nation, O'Connor abruptly switched sides in 2001 and voted to uphold the North Carolina district that she had questioned in Shaw v. Reno eight years earlier.

s Pam Karlan of Stanford Law School has observed, Bush v. Gore is entirely consistent with Shaw v. Reno. Rather than focusing on the actual interests of individual voters, it is concerned with the message conveyed by particular electoral arrangements: In Shaw v. Reno, O'Connor said that "appearances do matter" in apportionment cases because minority districts could "reinforce the perception" that members of the same racial group vote alike. Similarly, the Bush v. Gore majority was concerned that different counting standards for different ballots might appear unfair even if they were designed to reveal the voter's true intent. But, as Samuel Issacharoff of Columbia Law School has observed, electoral messages are in the eyes of the beholder, which is why lower court judges and Supreme Court justices have been unable to agree about what vision of fairness a particular election should have to respect: Is it more fair to treat every ballot alike or every group of voters alike?

The unfortunate result is that every contested election in the country is now vulnerable to being resolved by O'Connor and her colleagues. And the fact that they attempted in Bush v. Gore to deny the obvious implications of their intrusion into the political process only makes their intervention more reckless. Did they really believe they could create a right to political equality without defining it, in an age when society disagrees so vigorously about what equality requires? Did they imagine for a moment that Democrats and Republicans would meekly tug their forelocks rather than use electoral litigation as a partisan tool? And did they think that courts could presume to recast themselves as election supervisors without calling their own impartiality into question?

Whether or not the presidential election of 2004 is close, Bush v. Gore will continue to distort and confuse U.S. elections more aggressively with each passing year. The disastrous consequences of the Court's decision to legalize U.S. politics have only vindicated the fears of Felix Frankfurter, who warned nearly 60 years ago of the dangers of judicial excursions into what he called "the political thicket." "It is hostile to a democratic system to involve the judiciary in the politics of the people," Frankfurter wrote. "And it is not less pernicious if such judicial intervention in an essentially political contest be dressed up in the abstract phrases of the law." Worst of all, having now led us into the political thicket, neither the conservative nor the liberal justices have any way of getting us out.

Jeffrey Rosen is the legal affairs editor at TNR.

Gee Sally, that was long, I'll make sure I donate to your site this month. Sowwy!

Regarding the Dan Rather brou-ha-ha (although, in reality, it's not that funny), I'm actually happy it's causing it's little storm now rather than in late-October right before the Election. Plenty of time for the Public to tire of the Fire Dan Rather din and begin to (with the help of the Kerry campaign) focus on BelzeeBush's lack of a military record, his dismal performance as "Commander in Chief" and the Iraq mess. Not to mention the economy. So, let them have their 5 minutes to distract the People. Soon enough, the People will be bored (small attention spans, you know) and focus on Bush and his failings. And right before the Election.

Apparently Dubya was fearful of flying and that's why he didn't show up:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x860101

In mythology, I believe...Mars was not invited to the banquets with the other gods because of his courseness and uncivilized behavior. This angered him and encouraged him to wage perpetual war.

I believe we are headed for civil unrest and should be prepared.

We will never evolve if we don't realize that the fear of negative people is only the fear of our negative selves. I think we should all be careful of moral superiority.

Let these people in power now come down, realizing that we are all responsible for putting them there.
"Too much" whining, ugly accusation, taking sides with hatred, etc., takes the nobility out of this revolution. We should be proud or ourselves.

When John Kerry becomes President, a certain Hell will break loose.

If you could find it in your selves to please forgive me for my views on President Clinton, It would be good. I dislike feeling unwelcome here, as I am learning so much.

teresa b, you're terrific! I appreciate the fact that you can look through both views. You are a truly progessive individual. Please chill and don't let it bother you. We need you here!

No one intended to insult you . . . . hope you don't take it that way. Never forget that you are cherished here at Astroworld. Not that I can speak for Astroworld, but I think everyone will agree.

"There they go again!"
White noise to cover the sound of the tax cuts being voted in today!

http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/9742165.htm

WASHINGTON - As the election nears, U.S. officials say they are increasingly concerned al-Qaida will attempt to mount a devastating attack aimed at disrupting the political process.

Though they have no new information indicating a time, place or method of attack, government agencies are stepping up counterterrorism efforts.
PQOP

Laurie,

I have goose bumps. Thanks.

Beverly,
I sent them an email supporting Dan Rather and his staff

evening@cbsnews.com

Laurie........tytytytyty for the link on Georgie's Fear of Flying. I haven't laughed so hard in ages!

I took flying lessons on weekends for several months, but stopped short of my license due to the fact that it costs a small fortune to do that near NYC. You have to rent both the plane and the instructor, and so much time is spent waiting for clearances in this part of the country, that a typical lesson can easily cost a few hundred.

One thing I remember is that very early on, they deliberately try to scare the hell out of you to be sure you can handle and surmount your fear.(Which anyone but a total fool has to some extent)
I particularly recall one day when I went up with an instructor from Texas who took me through every stomach-turning acrobatic he could think of, all the time asking, "Having fun yet?" We made it back, (he really was one terrific pilot, if somewhat crazy); I threw up all over the runway, and I went up again next day for the simple reason that I knew I'd never look at another plane of any kind or nature if I didn't.

Developing a crippling fear of flying after getting your license strikes me as strange.......unless, of course, there was an intervening cause.......like drug use.

teresa b., Sure, we disagree on Clinton, but I hope I haven't in any way made you feel unwelcome. That was not, and will never be, my intention! Adults can disagree, have different points of view, even wear different political stripes, but still act in a civilized way with respect and patience and, most important of all, humour. I just don't think the majority of Republicans (at least the faces we see on TV) ever understood that. I don't think I've ever seen one of them crack a really good, sincere joke! Hmmmmmm ... humourless leaders, just what we DON'T need! LOL

Laurie, he was so frighten of flying that over a year ago he donned a flight suit declaring "Mission Accomplished." (Didn't he want to give the American public the impression that he was a hot shot flyer?)

As I recalled at the time Bush's people were saying that our nut-in-chief wanted to fly the jet to the landing, but due to safety the nut's request was denied. So, was Bush afraid of flying during his on-and-off guard duty experience, and now he's not. Are we flip-flopping again?

Jonathan,

I totally agree. The visible Republicans are truly uptight. Air America certainly spells out the difference. Laughter is a great equalizer.

I'm heading out for now....and thanks.
I know there is mucho Mars in me, but I AM civilized.

My e.mail to CBS re: Dan Rather:

It's come to my attention that you've become the target of a very concerted and highly efficient attack (via e.mail and other forms of media) to fire Dan Rather over this unfortunate incident with Bush's National Guard Files. I'm writing to implore you NOT to cave in to those on the shrill Right and please continue your support of Mr. Rather.

Once again, though -- and with the help of those doubters at CBS --, Karl Rove and his minions have changed the subject. What should be the story -- Mr. Bush's lack of service in the Guard -- has been drowned out by what should have never been the story -- firing Dan Rather. We in the "know" call it Republican White Noise. Just yell loud enough and long enough and, eventually, those in the Media will ignore what's truly important for that which has been created by the Spin Masters in the Administration to distract and deter.

I hope CBS doesn't fall for it any longer.

Please strongly consider ignoring the cries for Mr. Rather's journalistic head and get back to reporting the news. CBS is one of the few networks not in Bush's proverbial pocket. Let's keep it that way.

Jonathan! Excellent, just excellent!

Sally - In response to your question way up thread: yes, the Neptune transits of the past few years have all kept him in fantasy land. Neptune was on his Descendant in the beginning of his term, then opposite Mercury/Pluto, and now it is quincunx the Sun, which may be the worst of all. It triggers his natal square, and the Sun is already in the 12th house.

It occurs to me also that 12th house Saturn is very threatened by a feeling that there are secret enemies about, the world is somehow threatening. And here we have a man obsessed by terrorism and its threat. To be safe he loses himself in religion, the alliance with God HImself protects him, in his mind at least.

Sidney Bloomenthal

The Hollow World of Geroge Bush

http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,5022483-112564,00.html

Jonathan, what's Rather's email address at CBS?

Judi,

Morgana posted it above. You can write them at evening@cbsnews.com

Thanks Morgana!!!!!!

Judi, & All.......
The revenge syndrom goes back a lot farther than 16 years!
I just reread, Chapter 6: page 203, Armaments & Men ( The Bush Dynasty and the National Security State ) in Kevin Phillips Book
" American Dynasty"

In the 40's, Uncle Herbie, George Herbert Walker, ( GHW Bush's favorite Uncle, was the director of West Indies Sugar Company,..... a conglomerate of Cuban & Dominican sugar companies. By 1959 GHW Bush was the director, and Uncle Herbie financed the reorganization of the Zapata off shore drilling rigs; ( one very close to Cuba ) giving total control to Walker Bush Family enterprises.
When Castro overthrew Batista, he "NATIONALIZED" West Indies Sugar / 1960. The US Gov, put in place an economic embargo in 1961 & 3 months later launched the :"Bay of Pigs" invasion. 2 of the boats in the invading armada were the " Barbara" & the "Zapata:" It is rumored that GhWBush was already in the CIA, ( No paper trail of course, they're locked up. Shrub's first act as pRes.)
And remember who took the blame, for that fiasco?? J F K of course. Talk about "the gang that couldn't shoot straight!"!
More recently........ Jeb Bush nominated Batista's grandson Roul Cantero to the Fla. state supreme court!!!!
PQOP

Nancy, I seriously doubt he believes the Judeo-"Christian" sky being speaks to him. I think that's just one more ruse and cynical abuse of the public. Seems to me I read that Howard Dean's soon-to-be-published book contains a quote about Smirky's scorn of the "born-agins". Could the aspect to which you are referring indicate his duplicitous nature toward the people? Many thanks.

Teg...forgot to mention that I like that Jon Stewart is a Scorpio, too, that was GOOD info!... and so is Johnny Carson....

Sally thanks for the info on the quintiles and other aspects...I will now understand some of those aspects and look at them in a different way. I never looked at them at all before, so Pat C., thanks for the question in the first place...it got rid of the ill wind blowing, too....

bhakti, thanks for the new url on teeney weeney, it worked, I read the input....hooray for the venters, for they shall inherit the earth....boo on the status quo dismissive and clueless prevaricators...who justify kicking a woman, and who justify kicking a woman being restrained by police at the same time! And these guys will be running the world one day?

well Teresa b., you are very good about all of the reaction here .... it isn't that you aren't welcome....at all. We disagree.....certainly, reading a lot of the pundits right now, there is SO much parsing and disagreement....(and above all, NO ONE IS A SAINT! EVER!) Kerry is being roundly criticized by people for any number of stances...and criticized by people who SHOULD want him elected, but they don't feel that HE has addressed THEIR concerns, so wham! nail 'em....The DLC is criticized; Kerry because he didn't say this or that...etc.; it is defeating.

And wow, how about that Grover Norquist, doesn't he just warm to cockles of your heart?

BTW, watched a little bit of CSPAN tonight, and a congressman from Georgia (R), John Lindner, I think is his name, is introducing a bill (or already did) TO DO AWAY WITH TAXES AND THE IRS. He wants a consumption tax of 23% on all purchases. Watch for this....he made it sound all rosey, but apparently Democrats filed 17 pages of dissent. Sure would be nice to hear a round table of economists on this....

Judi! You want our country to be run on the basis of knowledge? What is wrong with you? The very idea! This is just one more ruse to destroy the social programs that Grover Norquist hates so much.

A diarist at dailyKos has posted analysis of polls for each of the 50 states, giving figures for Bush/Gore 2000 and Bush/Kerry 2004... very interesting read for those interested in electoral college votes...

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/9/22/20581/0030

Laurie, that link didn't work for me on Bush's fear of flying....so why was it funny?

For those interested in polls:

http://www.americanresearchgroup.com/

judi....

they moved the thread on Georgie's flying phobia. go to DU home page and click on that thread on the latest news page. And the comments are really funny.

Republicans Plan Patriot Act III
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/092404B.shtml

Deal in Congress to Keep Tax Cuts, Widening Deficit
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/092404C.shtml

The New York Times | How Not to Save Social Security
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/092404D.shtml

Laurie, thanks for post re election lawsuits, etc. I' m worried that the Dems are putting emphasis on lawyers on and after Nov 2 and not enough emphasis on mandating paper trail before Nov 2. A black box (which are installed in all the FL Dem strongholds--but not the Repug strongholds) doesn't do recount. It just tells you the same programmed thing again.

Also, re fear of flying, on an earlier thread a poster who used to live in Austin mentioned that Bushie is afraid of horses. Obviously true, or we would have seen him on one a la Ronnie. I have heard from many horse people that horses are telepathic. Enuf said.

Apologies if this has been mentioned up-thread, but I've noticed a decided swing into genuine professionalism in the networks' news reporting of late. Media in general, in fact. Seems to have started a few days ago with Peter Jennings being a mensch and saying on air in reponse to some outrageous Bush statement, This is what the pRes said, and, these are the facts.
Assume these would be gemini sagittarrius aspects plus a little uranian sizzle mixed in but no idea exactly what they'd be or why now. Feel it's a combination of Rathergate, Jon Stewart's amazing success, one last sniveling trick too many from Mr Rove and a scent of winner coming off John Kerry.
At Bush's press conference they actually asked him real questions, think it was NBC's David Gregory who asked if he understood that the people think he's not telling the truth. And came back with a follow-up when he didn't give a real answer. Said 'do you understand' again. Heh heh.
Then Bush pretended he didn't know his name. What a high-school trick that was.

http://www.tomdispatch.com/index.mhtml?emx=x&pid=1849

Mike Davis on the political sidelining of Blacks

Florida has been a special case when it comes to the intimidation and disenfranchisement of Black voters. It's not just the now infamous purged felon lists of 2000 or this year's attempt to do it all over again, nor just a host of intimidating election-day 2000 tactics near polling spots frequented by Blacks, but, as the New York Times' Bob Herbert reported, the recent visits by "state police officers, armed and in plain clothes" from the Florida Department of Law Enforcement (which reports to Gov. Jeb Bush) to Black voters. They "have questioned dozens of [black] voters in their homes. Some of those questioned have been volunteers in get-out-the-vote campaigns," and many are elderly. It's a surefire way to scare people i! nto not voting or mobilizing others to vote. With this on-going investigation of "voter fraud," Herbert indicated, "[t]he long and ugly tradition of suppressing the black vote is alive and thriving in the Sunshine State."

There is, in fact, a long and ugly history of minority-voter intimidation of which felon laws are but a part. Florida is one of nine states that now permanently forbid a felon to vote. A recent study of Georgia's felon disenfranchisement law concluded that its existence explains "two-thirds of the gap in voter registration between black males and other ethnic and gender groups." And this is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the organized intimidation of African-American voters in particular.

Farhad Manjoo of Salon.com has just written "Voter Terrorism," a long essay summarizing what we know about voter-intimidation campaigns, which often proceed under the guise of promoting "ballot security" and are "almost always mounted by Republicans who aim to reduce the turnout of overwhelmingly Democratic minority voters at the polls." Thursday, in an op-ed in the New York Times, Henry Louis Gates Jr. discussed the ways in which racially gerrymandered districts that essentially segregate Black voters have helped the Republicans retain control of the House of Representatives. He quotes constitutional scholar Richard Pildes as saying, "The United States is the only country that places the power to draw election districts in the hands of self-interested political actors. The joke is! that the voters don't really choose the candidates; the candidates choose their voters."

It's evident that our electoral process is ever more wounded and fragile. After all, as Jim Lobe of Inter Press Service reports, this will be the first American election to be monitored by at least two groups of foreign observers (one invited by the State Department, the other by the activist NGO Global Exchange). "'The potential for minority and specific groups to be disenfranchised, that's certainly ...a concern that needs to be closely looked at,' said David MacDonald, a former Minister of Communications and Secretary of State under Progressive Conservative governments in Canada," who is part of the Global Exchange group. Last summer, to the horror of their Republican colleagues, more than a dozen Democratic Congressional representatives requested that UN Secretary General Kofi Annan send a delegation of observers to the 2004 elections as well.

Imagine what would happen if, as pollster John Zogby suggests is mathematically possible, this year's election should end in an Electoral College tie, throwing the choice of president not to a Republican Supreme Court as in 2000, but to the cleverly gerrymandered, Republican-controlled House of Representatives? Below Mike Davis, a regular at Tomdispatch, takes up the marginalization of blacks, whether voters or not, and what that might mean for this year's election. Tom

Poor, Black, and Left Behind
By Mike Davis

The evacuation of New Orleans in the face of Hurricane Ivan looked sinisterly like Strom Thurmond's version of the Rapture. Affluent white people fled the Big Easy in their SUVs, while the old and car-less -- mainly Black -- were left behind in their below-sea-level shotgun shacks and aging tenements to face the watery wrath.

Teg, this is off subject here...but about the flying thing. A member of my mother's extended family, the Brit side (my mother's second cousin once removed), the Hon. Elsie Mackay, was the first woman to attempt to fly from Britain to America by herself, trying to set a record as Lindberg had going the other way.

There is a book about her written by John G. Fuller (Brit author who wrote about ghosts and UFO's, his most famous being The Ghost of Flight 451)....this actually is a real ghost story, also involving the very famous Irish psychic Eileen Garrett (she founded the NYC Institute for Psychical Research) and the giant ydrogen airships so famous in the 1920's. The book is called The Airmen Who Would Not Die. I grew up seeing her picture (drawings, not photos!) in my mother's family albums, along with the story of how she out -ran her father (James Lyle Mackay, the Earl of Inchcape, owner of White Star lines and the Titanic) in a car chase across Ireland, boarded her little single engine plane with her co- pilot, a one eyed aviator famous from WWI dogfights, and took off into a huge storm...never to be heard from again.

There is something so thrilling about those times.....little tiny planes, big huge egos driving them....seemingly no fear!

Sally, as soon as I get some money, I'm gonna have to donate too....I'm telling so many stories...my Gemini self is happier now in Libra..

Pat....yeh....this is mafia time, same ethics, different class of people (economically and socially, I mean) Thanks for the sugar stuff.....

Sugar is what overthrew the Hawaiian monarchy, too....I was thinking today, as I was driving down to see my mom in the nursing home that the sleeping giant which is the general populace of any given culture generally is always sleeping (the dragon)....until poked awake in times of need. 1215, 1600's, 1776, 1792....1860, and thru the WWs....and inbetween, the small cadre of the rich and powerful who play at the very highest levels of karma compete with each other economically, using the peasants and the powerless as the grunts and pawns in the game, to be expended until they are stopped by the dragon (....the stuff of novels and stories and ledgends). Most of us don't want to play there at that level....but some choose it and incarnate to it. At the point the dragon needs arousing seems to be the intersecting point where the power and oppression becomes lethal. The dragon awakes to cut down the players and then goes back to sleep....and then, it happens once again. And astrology tells us when and where and how long!

http://www.sptimes.com/2004/09/23/Hillsborough/Elections_site_posts_.shtml

Elections site posts errant tally [Hillsborough County, FL]

TAMPA - For three weeks since the Aug. 31 primary, the Web site of Hillsborough Supervisor of Elections Buddy Johnson included this obvious contradiction: a total of 118,699 people turned out to vote countywide, while 125,891 voted in the race for state attorney.

That's 7,192 more votes than voters.

More....

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://www.liberaloasis.com/palast3.htm

LiberalOasis Interviews Greg Palast

LO: You also revisit what happened in Florida in the 2000 election. What's your sense of how things will go this time around?

GP: ...They're stealing it again. One of things that was crucial in the film which still hasn't come out in the US media here, which I think is going to determine this year's election, is the loss of the black vote.

LO: What can they do with absentee ballots that they can't do with regular ballots?

GP: One, throw them away.

And by the way, LiberalOasis first: Election's going to be stolen in New Mexico and Colorado.

LO: And what leads you to say that?

GP: Same thing. Votes cast, not counted. Especially in Hispanic and Native American areas. Massive vote loss, massive. They just don't count the votes...

...I talked to Terry McAuliffe about [disenfranchisement]. He shrugged his shoulders.

There is one guy who is very interested in it.

John Edwards saw the film, by the way, and took it John Kerry and with some material from me

Once again I forgot to say that I wrote CBS, thanks all for the link direction!

I even told them that I once emailed Peter Jennings because I was outraged over his obvious disdain over the airways about Clinton during a state of the union address. I found it so upsetting I told them I would never watch ABCnews again, and I didn't (SF locally is SO bad it wasn't a hard decision)...so I understood the kind of pressure they were getting....

I told them that the freeper demands to fire Rather reminded me of the terrorists demanding the release of
their people or they would behead our people....and that I would continue to support Dan Rather and CBS news. I asked them to air the Plamegate story....I asked them to keep on looking at the story of the records instead of the.....ta da ....."white noise" being created by the right.

Oh Judi, that's just perfect. Good stuff.

Here is a really interesting link.

http://www.legitgov.org/index.html

Pat C...didn't understand your last line, some letters got dropped out....John Edwards saw the film, by the way, and took it John Kerry and with some material from me

Did Palast say that?

I found out today that my sister is voting for Bush. I was heartbroken. She's surrounded by Republicans at school and it's like they've brainwashed her. Makes me wish I was at home to help her see the truth. I told her about what happened to Cat Stevens and I think it caught her off guard, like her firends had helped her build up this worldview and all of a sudden something popped in to contradict everything she's been told.

Anyway, I think I'm starting to get a better sense of the trajectory of this presidential race. Alot of swing voters have moved into the Bush camp in the last 6 weeks. I think what's going to happen is that the debates are going to push them back into the undecided camp. Then in mid to late October, we'll have the infamous "October surprise." Once that happens, all bets are off. If Kerry is the man we think he is, his political skills will then kick into high gear and he'll close this race like he always has in the past with a big victory. If not, we're oh so screwed.

Sometimes the right things happen for the right reasons. Just lifted this from the guardian-uk web site (thanks, Al):

"For three decades the notebooks [of Mandela during his imprisonment] gathered dust in a cupboard, unknown to the world, forgotten even by their author, but cherished by the secret policeman who sensed history in their pages. As an apartheid agent Donald Card's job involved the decoding of confiscated writings of Robben Island prisoner 46664, to read between the lines about where the liberation movement was headed."

No matter how old he gets nor how old I get, the mere mention of Mandela's name makes the hair on my forearms stand straight up. What an incredible human being!

Shylurker, very funny! Knowledge indeed! HA!

This consumption tax which the Lindner bill is proposing keeps coming up all the time....he was concentrating on the fact that the IRS tax collection puts a hidden 22% cost into every dollar...and not everybody is a tax payer. (We already KNOW this is a regressive tax...where is Paul Krugman when we need him?)

So he wants a 23% UNHIDDEN (regressive ) consumption tax! Takes care of all the cheaters....makes all of us tax payers. AND puts millions of accountants OUT OF BUSINESS, as well as the enormous beaurocracy of the IRS employees. BUT it will bring money into the country and make us competitive and stop million/billionairs from sending their money offshore, and the Japanese and Germans will build manufacturing plants here again. Could be...could be....or it could be a way of getting rid of unions and social programs.

Ah yes, and who is going to POLICE the businesses who will be COLLECTING this 23% at the cash register? HA!!!! answer THAT one mr. lindner!

bbuster, Yep there does seem to be some movement from the media lately. Maybe they are 'shamed? Maybe some flicker of love of country and regard for the next generation is overcoming fear and self-interest?

Judi,

"ohn Edwards saw the film, by the way, and took it John Kerry and with some material from me.

And Kerry has been adding to speeches -- unfortunately, only to black audiences -- that he's not going to stand for it, the disenfranchisement of a million votes."

shylurker, I think it was a Mike Luckovitch political cartoon (Luckovitch is the best thing that ever happened to the Atlanta Journal/Constitution) that showed a life-sized Mandela placed under arrest by a life-sized South African policeman. In the next panel Mandela (now giant-sized) is released. And the still human-sized policeman says, "Let that be a lesson to you."

Thanks, Barbara. What a man!

Dave...send this to your sister....and good luck busting her bubble! Be courageous!

Republicans Admit Mailing Literature Saying Liberals Will Ban Bible
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/24/politics/campaign/24b...
By DAVID D. KIRKPATRICK
Published: September 24, 2004
The Republican Party acknowledged yesterday sending mass mailings to residents of two states warning that "liberals" seek to ban the Bible. It said the mailings were part of its effort to mobilize religious voters for President Bush.
The mailings include images of the Bible labeled "banned" and of a gay marriage proposal labeled "allowed." A mailing to Arkansas residents warns: "This will be Arkansas if you don't vote." A similar mailing was sent to West Virginians.
A liberal religious group, the Interfaith Alliance, circulated a copy of the Arkansas mailing to reporters yesterday to publicize it. "What they are doing is despicable,'' said Don Parker, a spokesman for the alliance. "They are playing on people's fears and emotions."
In an e-mail message, Christine Iverson, a spokeswoman for the Republican National Committee, confirmed that the party had sent the mailings.

Transiting waxing moon on my natal Sun at MC, so guess that's why I'm howling tonight. Anyhow, apparently GWB, the pretender, gave a press conference today and it was wackier even than usual. I've seen references to it in a couple of blogs but haven't been able to find transcript.

I googled "press conference, Bush," etc. and wow! That was interesting. Try it for yourself--you get all this stuff about prior press conferences (few though there have been) and adjectives like "muddled", etc. It is striking to see all these Bush press conferences described with apprehension and uneasiness.

Anyhow, didn't find transcript of today's (Sept. 23, 2004) press conference. I really want to look at that one.

Advice anyone?

Barbara, I think you mentioned his bushiness's fear of horses, and that horses are really sensitive....I'll second that! I too am a bit afraid of them, and always have been...plus, not exposed enough to them to gain a natural feel for them. They are lovely creatures! But when I get on them, they DO EVERYTHING I AM AFRAID OF! I've had dude ranch cowboys say...hey, he's NEVER done THAT before!

Grant Lewi also states that dictatorship is associated with the fixed signs, democracy, with the mutables.
Posted by teresa b at September 23, 2004 09:20 PM

Yes, Teresa. I was thinking about that tonight as I took my bath. Lewi gives good examples of both...interestingly, of course, Kerry is filled with the latter(of course you do have the Scorpio Venus). Clinton, though, Reagan...how would they fit in, I wonder?

I also got into

http://www.astrology-numerology.com/

today, just for fun and to see if there was any pertinent stuff. Can't remember the guy who runs the site(Michael somebody?...will have to get back in to get his name and more info). He writes a bit about Bush as a 6, then compares that to Kerry, as a 22. What stuck with me was this guy's comment that "all" our presidents should be 22s.

Off to make some noise of my own...sawing logs.

Peace.

;=)

Barbara, I read a post on DU which discussed Bush's probably medications...but now I can't find it, although there are plenty on the thread about his fear of flying ....they say he was pretty medicated while in Europe....Paxil was mentioned...I suppose it is time to check Capital Blue....

Oh, one more thing:

old granny.... Bush will not be re-elected.... Grant also says in another chapter that Saturn descending below the horizon indicates an exit from public life.
Saturn rising above, as in John Kerry's case, speaks of a rise in power.
Posted by teresa b at September 23, 2004 08:52 PM

Yes, teresa...I guess I can not ever be certain about anything, though. I can say what I "think" will happen, what appears to me to be the most "obvious" course. I think Stephen Arroyo's comment about Saturn transiting the 12th as being the "absolute end of a life cycle" speaks to me as well of what "seems" to be the course. However, I still continue to do my mental work each night, to clear, to clear, to clear and to place the proper image in the clearing.

In this space there is no noise. Only an absence of noise...and inner calm.

Barbara, oh, my energy is running out....but I wonder if CSPAN might not have transcript of the Bush speech. They usually do.

boy, those tax cuts sure are working!!!!!

http://www.sfgate.com

Bill & Larry, You've Got Company

Gates, Ellison are joined by 311 other billionaires in Forbes 400 list. Google co-founders also make the grade. AP

shylurker, excellent post on mandella. there are actually some public figures who are real heros.

bbuster, welcome back!!!

Georgie's Fear of Flying thread is here now:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x860359

(It got moved)

Here's an article from legitgov about Shrub's fear of flying:

http://www.legitgov.org/essay_eastman_bush_fear_of_flying_in_guard_092304.html

Good News!!!

http://news.independent.co.uk/low_res/story.jsp?story=565107&host=3&dir=71

Find out which companies in your area are exporting jobs and which companies are laying-off workers.

http://www.workingamerica.org/jobtracker/

Cool.

This is titled Kerry's response to Allawi. It is much broader than that and includes Kerry's response to Smirky&Co.'s failure in Iraq.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/092404V.shtml

Well worth distributing to family and friends.

I accessed it through democrats.com which also has a link to a Rolling Stone article on the Smirky in AL interlude.

Scheer
True Conservative Would Find Kerry a Better Choice

http://www.ajc.com/today/content/epaper/editions/today/opinion_1435cbc11209501b00de.html

Barbara,

Re transcript for aWol's press conference:

http://http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/iraq/la-bushallawitext_wr,1,3780955.story?coll=la-home-headlines

you need subscription to LAT to see, or dKos has a huge diary on it with link to C-Span video of it and links to other sites for whole conference, you have to dig thru though...

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/9/23/124234/098

there are excerpts from it on front page of dKos, just scroll down to appropriate article... usually if you're looking for a link the Kossacks will have it... Namaste

...the latest from Fiore

http://www.sfgate.com/comics/fiore/

Something to think about....

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/09/24/MNG3J8U5DO1.DTL&type=printable

Krugman

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/24/opinion/24krugman.html?pagewanted=print&position=

I really detest that phrase, "October Surpise." It's like a front n' center cue planted in brains during hypnosis... which it is.

bushaholic's cancerian sun in the 12th hse is a psychic sponge. Too bad it is apparently unable to use it in good stead.

* Dear Vote.com Voter,

Log on to http://www.vote.com & vote on whether you think CBS Evening News anchor Dan Rather shld resign amid the controversy over the apparently fake memos obtained by CBS News about bush's Natl Guard service. We'll send your vote to Dan Rather at CBS News, bush and John Kerry for President.

To access the vote, pls click on the link below.
http://www.Vote.com

PLEASE FORWARD THIS VOTE TO YOUR FRIENDS & FAMILY TO MAKE THEIR VOTE COUNT TOO!

I no more believe that Rather/CBS's info was bogus than I believe bushadruggie can tell the truth. Sure, sure... Rather put out bogus info just so he cld ruin his career & credibility... yeah, he was looking forward to being discovered "a liar" after months of careful research which has been known for years by others. Yeah... CBS was really looking forward to the distruction of their company to prop up fatherly bushaAWOLdeserter's marvelous good works on behalf of the World. Such selfless servants (or whatever) of the People... that Rather & CBS.

I think there should be a probe into GWB's National Guard service, or lack thereof. If he still owes the USA a year, then send him to Iraq!

See how willing a Repub congress is to begin anykind of probe into their opposition, meanwhile their corruptness keeps on growing and growing. Thing is, corruption can only get so big, and then like a festering boil will eventually break thru the skin, be exposed to air, and hopefully heal. Today, Jupiter crosses over.

Were Joe's comments deleted or something? I know it's at the moderator's discretion, but let's leave censorship for the other side...

Mars, Sally is captain of this board and it is her decision. Joe's purpose is nothing more than to bait and taunt those who oppose Smirky&Co specifically and fascism in general. She/he/it is paid to run around the internet (thanks, Al) and be disruptive. A Rovian type tactic. We are a lively, though usually peaceable board, and I trust things remain that way.

If I may be serious for a moment...

I know I have some radical views(Venus conjunct Uranus in Gemini in the 3rd), but I trust you enough here to express them. I am a true metaphysician, and I have always believed in the cosmic orchestration. From that perspective:

The war in Iraq was necessary. It was a boil of humanity waiting to spew its contents. Pluto's orders.
We and the Iraqis together were the brave ones who facilitated this release,
smack-dab in the cradle of civilization.
Things will work out there.

There are a lot of things we don't understand about the Iraqi people. They are wild and passionate, and from what I've been hearing on the radio the last few days, we are just now beginning to look at them. Maybe we will also look at ourselves.

Our collective sin is now staring us in the face.
We are all at fault. No one is innocent. What we do next remains to be seen.

If we stay too long together, safe in our protected cacoons, without acknowledging and facing our enemies, we will remain in danger.

Pluto through Sagittarius has made us painfully aware of our racial, ethnic, and ideological prejudice...our use of religion as a tool for murder...our ridiculous clinging to moral superiority...and our lack of faith. The ruling religions have failed. We have turned our backs on the benevolent forces of the universe.

We have only four years left. It's time to get it, feel the euphoria of relief, and then move on to the next suffering...Pluto in Capricorn as it makes its first return to its natal position in the US chart.

It seems that the whole country is very, very afraid of John Kerry. He is so perfectly aligned with our destiny now. All the Sagittarius energy is too synchronized for this not to be so.
I believe he is trying to help us face some truth and move forward.
We seek refuge in the antics of George Bush, wish that Kerry were someone else, and make petty criticisms of Kerry's natural ways. We can pick his actions apart once he is in office. That would be criticism well spent.
Knowing full well he is the man to assume the Presidency, now.

And most of all, I believe we should recognize that we have paid for some of our sins, we can curtail the self-punishment, let go of George Bush, renew our faith, and experience a moment of Sagittarian joy as this collective transit comes to its close.

Ohhhhh Teresa b.,

Be glad I am cleaning my inner and outer space today... your post deserves rebuttal but I won't interrupt my peace to do it... not at this moment.

Mark Morford....What's Wrong With John Kerry?

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/g/a/2004/09/24/notes092404.DTL&type=printable

Yoga aphorism:
'There is no sin, only the conciousness of sin'.
I am not flaggelating myself over the monster in office. First, he and his family sickened me from the gitgo. Ususally my higher mind 'knows' before my intellectual mind. It takes a while until the info filters through to understand the ill feelings I get around certain people, places , things. Then when the clues are revealed I appreaciate my sniff all the more. That 'sin' stuff is about living in a guilted mind and in the past instead of living in the *now*. I believe our collective 'self-entitlement' is being shaken to the core. Good. Now we can move forward into Global Unity. When we strip the layers of 'old timey religion' and pre-conditioned mindstuff, created by our childhoods and society morales we can live more in the *now* without guilt or the concept of sin.

Freeper Censorship. I for one have asked Sally behind the scenes to delete this creep back to his troll hidey-hole. He is poison to all of us here on AW and in society. Any creep who earns a living being a creep needs to be stopped. We *are* one-sided here on AW. We do not need a lecture from a creep on how to keep things balanced. He is not coming from a balanced POV so how can he lecture us? Keep the troll's unused teenie weenie in his own hidey-hole. What a sick way to get a kick. The dude needs professional help. The PC is not working here , it's what kept our mouths shut and allowed a monster to take control of our freedom and liberty. NEVER AGAIN!

Do you agree that, excepting a few areas, things are growing peaceful in Iraq? (If you do, whatever have you been smoking?) Go vote:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3096434/

One little thing... don't think my statement was an endorsement of war. It is not. It is only an attempt to understand it, accept it as what has been, try to understand it, and search myself to figure out what I can do, personally to help this family learn how to settle conflict in another way.

bhakti,

Thank you... I simply didn't have the energy... namaste

teresa b.,

Your comments about the Iraqi people:

"There are a lot of things we don't understand about the Iraqi people. They are wild and passionate, and from what I've been hearing on the radio the last few days, we are just now beginning to look at them."

I find those comments about Iraqis to be offensive. 'wild and passionate' is a generalization... to broad for my palette... I myself have a facet or two one might term wild and I am extremely passionate about many things... I don't know what you're hearing on the radio, but it sounds racist to my ear...

Shy,

Of course I don't believe that Iraq is growing peaceful. They have such a long, long history of violence. I'm just suggesting that perhaps we were drawn into their Karma, they into ours, so the world could experience this (remember, no one really tried to stop it which amazed me) and learn, of course, the hard way.

I know, myself, that when this war started, I became physically ill and was shocked into participating in the political process.

I have high hopes that the world has learned from this.

Jo, I have no inner peace at this moment, so let me give the rebuttal a shot.

Teresa B, I disagree that the war in Iraq was justified. If we were to lance one of the boils on humanity's butt, Iraq should have been way down on the list. For starters, Saudi Arabia would have been one of my top choices. A country with SO much wealth and the unemployment rate is bordering on 70% (I may be a tad off on my percentage). Human rights in that country is non-existance, and they DO fund terrorism. Keep in mind, most of the terrorists who attacked America were from SA.

Further, as much as we as a country would like to remove boils off humanity's butt, it's not the legal thing to do, and most especially in the case of Iraq, it's a horrible way to spend and waste Americans' valuable tax dollars (now close to 200 billion spent) when people are out of work and that money would be better used for our intra-structures which would create jobs.

Lastly, the families of the thousands of innocent Iraq's lives lost through our bombing would disagree with you. We have gone into Iraq and created a NIGHTMARE for innocent people. Only those with money to be made or who naively and arrogantly think we can remake the Middle East think that it was a good idea to invade Iraq. Since I belong in neither camp, I hold the opinion that it was a horribe idea.

Teresa, no offense to you but I have 'real' family and this is a blog. I love and appreciate my 'friends' on AW.
If there are things that you need to personally work through that is what a family and a therapist is for. I am not here to censor you but every bit of mindstuff that we think may not always be helpful or productive to others. It feels like a superimpostion and projecting and sometime better to work on privately. The 'sin' thing really got to me. That is not my conciousness. It had nothing to do with war. It takes so much effort to be strong these days. Let's support our canditate until Nov 2 and then worry about the future as we live it.
Wishing you only the best.
Sorry to all if I'm being a drag.

Jo,

What Iam learning from the radio is that the Iraqi people have a long history of tribal warfare...as we knew....but some of the details were being discussed..ie. names of certain tribes localities, etc. Maybe they are ready to solve some of these problems. Who knows, maybe we can help.
Could they negotiate?

Remember,

Iam not talking about the legality , nor the morality of the war. I am completely opposed on that level. I am complete ly opposed on any level.

I was talking about the metaphysical aspect. I still think the cradle factor was the thing.

And once something has happened. on that level, I have to think it was meant to be. And it is for us to understand what we all have done so as not to repeat it..

I know, Iknow.. I am fool and a dreamer.

Bhakti,

This is what I mean...

If you want me not express myself here...if you try to shut me out... we will never settle our differences rationally, and we will never stop the wars.

Welcome Jupiter in Libra!!!

Mars, it was my decision to delete Joe's posts. I didn't have a problem with his comments and if he were just a poster I wouldn't have. However one of the rules of this board is "no baiting" no calling anyone names or ridiculing a position in the extreme. Joe did that, also because Joe isn't an ordinary poster, he managed to nearly shut this board down from the technical side of the board and it was a mess to clean up, that's why there is a security code now. I will continue to delete Joe and anyone else like him who have no intention of honest debate but does intend to "bait" There are other boards where that kind of ugly back and forth are accepted, this just isn't one of them.

Teresa, while blunt I do agree with what you are trying to say. The last paragraph is particularly accurate from the collective view. I think it's hard for a lot of people to understand the collective mind. I think it's hard to understand "energy" and how it works. If I feel guilty, as an example, because I didn't give a homeless person a dollar on the street, my guilt just adds to the collective. That's the way energy works. Anger adds to anger, hate to hate, fear to fear, happiness to happiness, love to love.

Barbara,
http://www.bangornews.com/editorialnews/article.cfm?ID=436280

Sorry this isn't an actual transcript......but it gives you a sense.
( Insert any one of the transcripts for Bush's other speeches, they don't change that much!)
Pat QOP

And I will change the word "sin" to "wrong-doing".

Then will you allow me in?

Thank you, Sal,

And knowledge and understanding to knowledge and understanding.

Teresa B., you certainly have the right to express your views. Even though we share a lovely first name, our views on Iraq are different. I do not believe that the U.S. was justified (morally, metaphysically or any other "ly") in going into a country that had not attacked us. Why was it our place to remove Sadaam? Why was it our responsibility to move into a sovereign nation and literally trash it because the pResidant told us there were WMD's? Why didn't the Rove machine allow the inspectors to finish their job? Why didn't the Shrub even try to build up a coalition? This administration wanted control of the Iraqi oil fields and they wanted to be in a position to intimidate other countries in the middle east. This is the bottom line in my opinion and this administration is sacrificing not only our own brave soldiers but the Iraqi people as well. Forgive my rant, but we were WRONG in allowing this happen.

Teresa,

Of course it was wrong. But you said it ...why?

I still say I am not talking about it on the levels you mentioned. I am in complete agreement with all of you on those.

I am merely trying to figure out why the destiny led us to this and what we can do.

Definition of Iyad Allawi

http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Iyad_Allawi#Allawi.27s_early_life

snip--Allawi was an active supporter of the Iraqi Ba'ath Party in its early days when it was still banned. In 1971 he moved to London in order to continue his medical education. Some have reported this as an exile, but some of Allawi's old counterparts have claimed that he continued to serve the Baath Party, and the Iraqi secret police, searching out enemies of the regime. During this time he was president of the Iraqi Student Union in Europe. Seymour Hersh quotes former CIA officer Vincent Cannistraro: "[...] Allawi has blood on his hands from his days in London [...] he was a paid Mukhabarat agent for the Iraqis, and he was involved in dirty stuff." A Middle Eastern diplomat confirmed that Allawi was involved with a Mukhabarat "hit team" that killed Baath Party dissenters in Europe. However, he resigned from the Baath party for undisclosed reasons in 1975.

Just changing the administration won't completely solve it.

Gotta go make some chili...

Please don't be too mad.

I don't think anyone is actually mad. Ready to breathe fire maybe. But that's a good thing.

I kind of think what was meant is how through the years we continue to draw war and violence to us as a country, certainly the last 100 years which was the most violent in our history (not a long history to be sure) we have had a ton of wars abroad and our foreign policy has been awful. The question "why do they hate us" after 9/11 has not been really addressed in this country and the "they hate our freedoms" is a pretty shallow answer and doesn't go to the heart of this matter. When one looks at our violent movies, video games, TV it would sure seem that the collective mind as a whole supports violence, when that shifts then we can shift out of the mind set that war or violence solves everything when in fact it creates more problems for us and the world than it solves.

New subject!
I did the Move-on initiative to call CNN about Bill Schneider's latest political misinformation,.
I got a live man who tried to shunt me off to a voice recording, but I insisted on talking to him instead.
Apparently I pushed him beyond his limits
( He just works there) because he let his hair down & revealed to me that Schneider is a rude unpleasant man. He finished up by saying " He's not "normal".
'Not quite right"?????? I guess he's another of Paul Levy's malignant egophreniacs.
Pat QOP

Teresa b., what I object to (sorry Sally) is the lack of understanding of history on Iraq....you wrote:
The war in Iraq was necessary. It was a boil of humanity waiting to spew its contents. Pluto's orders.
We and the Iraqis together were the brave ones who facilitated this release,
smack-dab in the cradle of civilization.
Things will work out there.

Well sorry, but the British did this very same thing (TE Lawrence actually wrote a report in 1920 for the British gov't on this...84 years ago - I have a copy of it). And who appoints wealthy white countries as the guardian who lance boils on the asses of other countries, especially since it was our country which set up the boil in its present incarnation? It didn't work for the Brits and it isn't going to work for us (and it didn't work in Vietnam). Perhaps I just don't understand or agree with the reasons it was done....because the interference in their "tribal wars" is no different than what the Boers did to the African tribes....this is about economics, plain and simple...Neocons don't give a shit about the immortal souls of the Iraqis. Just their oil.

As a human beings, we are on our own....the universe is not going to help us out now....religion is part of the problem, and metaphysics may make us feel good, but it isn't helping the Iraqis to survive this mess....there isn't anything "brave" about any of it....I absolutely do not understand where you are coming from. And I don't think labeling yourself as a "metaphyscian" is going to make that any clearer.

India and Pakistan, Iraq and Iran....all the cradles of civilizations need to work out their own problems. When we "superior" civilizations go in and interfere, we are violating (oh dear, watched too much Star Trek) the Prime Directive. Basically, all WE (the FINANCIAL NATIONS) want are their resources. That's it....metaphysics is how we explain the law of unintended consequences. And all the dead people.

Well....Sun/Sat conjunctions as I have are always joy killers, what can I say? But everyone is entitled to their views, and everyone is contributing to the 360 deg. hologram. I come from the tribe on non-intervention.
Namaste

Bhakti, just to let you know, my higher mind has been sickened by the cartel for 15 years....I, too, get the unconscious reaction before I get the understanding of it. Must be something in us similar, other than being artists?

THanks Joanna Oregon for that Rather/CBS link...as usual, you amuse while you rant! Namaste, also

Teresa b., you don't say what you are listening to on the "radio"....if it is NPR, well....at least there will be more balance than with rightwing radio. Why don't you reveal WHAT you are listening to? Who is doing the reporting, who is talking about what....it isn't "the radio" talking to you, it is a program with a moderator and an agenda...what agenda IS IT?

"It seems that the whole country is very, very afraid of John Kerry. He is so perfectly aligned with our destiny now. All the Sagittarius energy is too synchronized for this not to be so.
I believe he is trying to help us face some truth and move forward."

GIRL, YOU ARE LIVING IN A PART OF THE COUNTRY WHERE PEOPLE HAVE BEEN TOLD TO BE 'VERY AFRAID" OF KERRY. I only know one person in SF Bay area personally, who is afraid of Kerry...and he is a Repub who watches and listens to Limbaugh and Fox.

Hopefully, the people who should be really afraid of Kerry are the Neo Cons and Rethugs. They are a small part of this picture, although powerful.

Not lancing boils. Rather, killing for oil.

Peace.

Sally, I do agree with this:
the last paragraph is particularly accurate from the collective view. I think it's hard for a lot of people to understand the collective mind. I think it's hard to understand "energy" and how it works. If I feel guilty, as an example, because I didn't give a homeless person a dollar on the street, my guilt just adds to the collective. That's the way energy works. Anger adds to anger, hate to hate, fear to fear, happiness to happiness, love to love.

"Energy" has no plus or minus, benevolence or malevolence....energy is energy, and we are always bathed in it. Energy from the sun is sometimes too much (sun spots)....sometimes just right. (Let's hope it doesn't become too little.)

The collective mind is, I think, a different form of energy, on a different plane of existence. A lot of it is the lower form of hell on the astral! I would hope that what we try to contribute is to raise the level of the collective mind to its violet vibration rather than the red vibration, where so much of the world plays out its games (of war, among other things).

I had a lot of trouble understanding this while working with a woman named Serena Smith in Seattle (by phone) who works with energy. She always said that energy can be disruptive or soothing, and it is always pretty apparent to all of us on this board when that is happening....and we are all intrepreting that energy through our own "eyes". But when the energy is projecting into our world from the universe in the way it has in the last few years, it is neutral. It is how we view that energy bath which determines how we use it. And that is why we need to develop our "watcher" selves....it is instruction for our souls.

namaste once again....

I guess I got tangled up in my self expression, some wrong choice of words, and I can't undo the fact that I am misunderstood.
For the life of me, I don't know why I did this.

War is wrong.
It keeps happening.
Why and what can we do?

That's all I am saying.

By and large this has been a dignified debate, but some of your comments have been hurtful and I think that kind of below the belt approach to argument is what leads to larger wars.

I know that governments and righties are bad, but hating them so virulently solves nothing.

The end to perpetual war starts with each individual, not the government.

I DO wish we could live in peace.
How can we achieve that?

I just got an email from a guy in Canada, and I had to ask him what he was smokin'....he said he watched Kerry's speech and that Kerry is as insane as Bush. I asked him if he had been brainwashed by Dick "if you vote for Kerry you will DIE" Cheney. The title of his email was "Kerry delievers Terrifying Speech".

Isn't this a little coincidental that Teresa b. would state that "most of America is afraid of Kerry"??? What is going out over the airways?

Judi,

Gemini Sun, right? From one set of twins to another, RIGHT ON, GIRLFRIEND! YOU GO!

Having to recharge my batteries for awhile, and simply don't have the energy to spare for rants, but I'll add ditto marks to the one (two?) you posted... if that's okay with you...

Namaste

Teresa b.....if you work on developing your "watcher self", you will not feel harmed. You are not a small child and we are not your parents. If you SAY things, and people react, then you must take responsibility for those things. This is not a free pass here....but no one is trying to harm you. This is not unsimilar to what artists must do....realize that they are not their work (I am referring to commercial artists, not fine artists)....they must step back and see what it is they have presented and whether it meets the client's expectations. One cannot work in the real world and expect everyone to give you a lollipop for effort....!

You can keep on saying things and getting hurt, or you can say things and expect feedback....your choice!

But at least THANK people for their feedback instead of insinuating that we are here to hurt you. Don't just thank those who are trying to comfort you....thank those who disagree. There is an old saying that your enemies are the ones you should listen to, for they will tell you the truth. (which opens up a whole area of discussion on the president's men -and women)

Thank you, Judi.

Itis true. I am a child.
A sun in Cancer.

One more thought.....as much as we abhor war, it is naive, I think, to expect that we can END it. As Sally said about the collective mind, about as much as we can do and feel good about is to not contribute to the need for war. We also need to express war as an energy in our own selves....not supress it, but perhaps transmute it?. How do we do that? I do think that is a good question....the only thing I can think of is to seek a higher perspective...sure is exhausting, though!

Now I really do have to go make that chili.

teresa b.,

Girl, don't come here with that pathetic "misunderstood" stuff... I've gone back and read your posts over three articles and you flat out contradict yourself one minute to the next. I was reared to be polite, but I call 'em as I see 'em, so I'm going to do that.

You come on, drop an inflamatory comment or two, plead the victim, run away and come back later asking us to let you play. I would hardly call that 'debate'... and, what exactly is it you want to debate?

You drop these little hand granades of statements all over the board:

"I know that governments and righties are bad, but hating them so virulently solves nothing."

What's with the judgment? Hate? We're fighting for this country, for democracy, for our way of life... what's 'hate' got to do with it?

You said you were going to make chili... you need to make 'nice' after your comments above. NO ONE, absolutely NO ONE has said anything to hurt your feelings... or for that matter engaged in " kind of below the belt approach to argument is what leads to larger wars." Where's that coming from?

Folks on this board disagree alot... but we try to do it in a grown up manner... enough of the passive-aggressive stuff...

And don't come back and say I said you're not welcome on this board. What I am saying is some of us are having difficulty understanding where you are coming from... some clarity please. If you feel "misunderstood" maybe a preview of your comments would ensure you are saying what you intend to say...

Some of us on this board are little old ladies in tennis shoes who have protested in the 60s 70s and 80s... we have seen a few 'instigators' in our time, and many others have a 'watchful' eye...

Peace

Jo...

Which one should I drop?

The passive or the aggresive?

Teresa b,
there's an epidemic out there of people who do not take responsibility, ability to respond, for their actions. We are adults, adults take steps to be responsible.
I made my feelings very clear to you and wrote respectfully and there was a knee-jerk reaction to me and everyone else trying to dialogue here.
Pity is an emotion I do not play into.
If you see yourself a child then you become that. That's too bad, we can all strive higher.
I too am interested in what radio you are listening to that express such views. Turn on Air America, much more positive, you can stream it on the internet. Why not abide in silence for a while. It's a gorgeous day here in NYC, wherever you are get away from the internet or TV, radio and enjoy what life has to offer.
Why eat all the bad energy being transmitted by RWingnut s? Today is the day of At-One-Ment. Enjoy yourself as a contained, self-full adult.

Interesting...I went to vote.com to vote on Rather....and the results are 78% think he should be fired! The site must be freeped! And then went to the MSN vote on whether Iraq is safer or unsafer now....and 78% said unsafer!

Would like to know more about the site Vote.com....is this a freeper favorite? When I reviewed all the questions they asked (and they are sending emails to Rather and Congress) one was about allowing the Assault Weapons ban to lapse...it was overwhelmingly a YES that GWB was right to allow it to lapse. So I have my answer.

I am also a little old lady in tennis shoes...

Not that this is an excuse, but I have a Mars in Libra.
I crave approval, but I have built-in mechanism that assures rejection.

It is a paradox.

Namaste, Jo and Bhakti....

Teresa b.....I used to make snotty comebacks like "which one should I drop, the passive or aggressive?"

That is the ego making you look even more ridiculous. Please ask your ego to step outside for awhile and allow you to find your real space. You will like it much better.

I am going to post as judi gemini from now on....I felt a name change coming on! Thanks Jo!

Please do not leak your 'paradox' here. It's just not interesting.
Only children need that much attention. It looks sorry on adults.
Peace

Good advice, Bhakti.

I am missing silence.

I am really taking off this time.

Later......

Cat Stevens is going to sue the U.S.A.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/092504W.shtml

Sally.......

Last night I was checking out some of the links you provided on the right hand side and came upon one which is an absolute delight. Robert Zoller, medieval astrology. I am enchanted. I read all the summaries of his various articles and can't wait to peruse some of the long versions. I am much into history, particularly areas of history that I am less than familiar with, and this site is a treasure trove! I wanted to ask if you had ever met him?

Morgana: Thank you so much for the link to CBS. Will follow through on it Saturday for sure.

Laurie..

Good for Cat! He is one person I cannot imagine being involved in anything nefarious. Did you know that back when he was still Greek Orthodox, he spent some time in those monasteries perched high on those pinnacles of rock in northern Greece, meditating. And I think he had a Buddhist period as well. If nothing else, he has been a searcher for God his entire life, and I don't think that there is anyone in the US gov't who has a right to judge that search. For some reason I haven't yet figured out, I am more outraged by this one evidence of Ashcroft's insanities than I have been by many others, ostensibly worse. I feel immensely protective and angered on Cat's behalf. I wonder when Ashcroft is going to decide that the Dalai Lama is a terrorist? I bet he'd go after Mother Teresa herself if she had not already gone to her reward! I seem to recall that Princess Bandar didn't suffer any repercussions despite her charitable giving to a whole slew of Islamic charities. My guess is that the Israelis are at the bottom of this. And this Administration does every little thing the Mossad wants! It revolts me.

OK........that's my rant for the day.

Time for an aspirin and meditation.

Peace to all

teresa b.,

I apologize for you being attacked. Although I may not agree with everything you wrote in that "scandalous Post", I do see what your intention was and, regarding the karma present between the two countries, I understand what you were trying to say. Obviously there is Karma between everyone involved, otherwise it wouldn't be happening! I know this "war" in Iraq has made me more outspoken about what I believe and don't believe, and a little less diplomatic with those who are in some way ill-informed and incurious.

In my opinion, I think there are those who might have attacked you personally in a way that is inappropriate. They have their right to do that and, perhaps, there is something in what they wrote that may be of help in furthering your understanding of yourself. I've always believed (and this might have been mentioned above as well) that I learn more from my "enemies" than I do from my "friends". The mirror, if you will, is a lot clearer and more likely to show all those "flaws" when it's held up by an "enemy".

But, again, I am sorry if you feel attacked (I felt attacked just READING the responses!), but I hope you can try and gleen something useful from it all.

Hope your chili turned out well. I'm off to roast a chicken! :-)

Jonathan, it would be helpful if you addressed me directly, since I am the one who has been on Teresa B.'s back....I have said that I am not attacking her personally. I am sorry that you feel attacked also. Perhaps I am not sufficiently parental and forgiving. I have done an awful lot of workshops in communications, and I 've never found that being easy on someone did THEM much good.Of course, if you are not referring to my posts, my apologies.

teresa b.,

I have three really wonderful books to recommend to you. (I think too much radio and tv ends up making one crazy! At least it does me! Reading is better.

1) A History of God by Karen Armstrong......the 4,000 year history of the monotheistic religions: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. They are far more intertwined than most people realise. And I was surprised to learn that Islam had been tolerant and accepting of the other two for some centuries, while the favor was not returned. This book is an eye-opener. (At least I found it so)

2) Seven Pillars of Wisdom, by T.E. Lawrence. You may know this already, but again, it tells one a lot about the British in the Middle East, circa WWI, and it would be nice if Bush would read it. He might learn something, but I suspect it would be beyond his powers of comprehension . Also too long!

3) The Phenomenon of Man, by Teilhard de Chardin. I strongly recommend this one. It speaks of the evolution of all humanity towards a higher level of energy, which he calls the Noosphere. I know you would like this one.

If you check out any of these, let me know what you think of them. I'm sure of one thing, these three books can teach a great deal, and will supply a banquet of rich food for thought. I loved them all.

Hello.

I just read through the posts. There is so much personal psychology here. Sigh.

Is the intended subject, politics, getting derailed or am I just worrying too much? Maybe I am, I don't know, but it's a lot different today. I'm no therapist, so I just feel I am not qualified to participate in this.

Judi, I agree with Jonathan. Teresa b. has a lot to offer in her views whether we like what she says or not and you seem a bit insensitive to the hurtfullness of your rather harsh criticism. She does invoke thought. If we were all exactly alike, it wouldn't be so interesting.

However, I admire your thoughts and ideas and I find your postings a breath of fresh air and always interesting. You are smart as a whip.

Oh geez louise, I believe my Libra Saturn is showing.

Hey All,

My Post wasn't directed at one person, but at the tone of several e-mails in response to teresa b.'s original Post. One would hope that they could come to this site, struggle to articulate a thought (and be aware and maybe even apologetic for this struggle) without being, for lack of a better word, "attacked". That's the only point I was trying to make. And it's not like I'M not guilty of posting harsh critiques at times! Trust me, if you knew how many Posts I write and then Delete without Sending, you'd be shocked. LOL But my time on this Board and with you all has helped me to learn how to forgive a lot more and look at what people say in light of their Intentions and not so much in the words with which they express themselves. If I find myself angry with a Post, I'll usually walk away from the site and then come back later and re-read it. Usually, with a clearer head, I "see" what the Poster meant and don't feel the anger I felt before.

That's all I was trying to say. No harm intended. :-)

By the way, thanks Teg for the book recommendations. I was JUST thinking I needed something new to read and POOF! there you were with all the answers! :-)

Laurie...sometimes one has to shout in order to get through. I never said Teresa didn't have good points...I was reacting (as did Jo and Bhakti) to specific things she said. Those things caused a reaction in me....well, it isn't the first time I've been called insensitive. Although I think that is not true. I just don't tend to want to sugar coat.

Thank you for being a Libra. It is most charming, and I am envious!

Jonathan,
Karma is SO much more important in concept than just a war between two countries. I think it is just so easy to say KARMA (I'm guilty of that)....that is what Jo (my twin gemini) has been saying also...there was no KARMA between Iraq and America other than the actions of the still living Reagan/Bush(s) administrations (if anything, the Brits have to answer for some of that too). It makes me want to cry....now we really DO have karma with Iraq. It is really important to understand (and mind you, I am not saying that you don't understand, merely trying to emphasize) that these conditions were gone towards by a group of people with a certain end in mind....domination of the region (and the world) for the oil. And these criminals REPRESENT US!

This time of Atonement is an excellent time to look back and see what we have wrought. I thought going into Iraq and Afghanistan was merely an excuse to excercise PNAC's bullet points. I disagreed then and I disagree now....and the law of unintended consequences will show itself sooner or later.

As I said, it makes me want to cry when the situation is reduced to an easy and flippant answer by anyone....or maybe this is just my election fatigue with soundbites....

I have noticed (with some irritation) over the last 2 or 3 threads that miz 'b' tends to submit 2-3-4-5 posts in a row, which is not the best netizen behavior. So, that says there is a hunger for attention operating, at least to me. It also says that hunger likely has been met since any point got lost when it became all about teresa b.

Reminds me of the bad old days when she who shall be nameless but was a big clinton hater and nader lover and her name began with an "R" used to suck all the oxygen out of the 'room'.
Same thing goin' on now, folks.

Guess I'll do again what I forced myself to do then and quit hangin' out until the high-school crap finishes. It's BORING, guys. It's not about politics or astrology when one person and their multiple postings and multiple criticisms and multiple apologies and multiple exits and returns dominate the discourse. I'd rather deal with that creepy troll, Joe.

Judi,

I wasn't trying to be flippant and offer an "easy answer." There is none. I do believe, though (and you may disagree with me all you like ... I don't mind), that Karma is a never-ending cycle. So, one doesn't just suddenly "have" Karma; one comes into Life with karma present and that karma leads one into experiences with opportunities to learn and to grow ... or not. Of course, this is just my own personal belief, but it helps me explain and come closer to understanding why some are cruel to others and others are so wonderfully patient. This belief also helps me to remove my Ego from situations and look at it from the standpoint of "what do I need to learn or see in this". A lot better for the ol' stress level, you know?

Anyway, I wasn't trying to be flippant. One can't be flippant about thousands of innocents killed without being, sadly, a Monster. And I'm not a Monster. :-)

Congress Passed A So-Called "Middle-Class" Tax Cut. Now Read the Truth. Another Give-Away to the Rich and Corporations. Middle-Class and Poor Get Screwed Again. 9/25
http://www.americanprogressaction.org/site/pp.asp?c=klLWJcP7H&b=100480#2

bbuster, word.

Okay, this is it for me for the night. And then I'm off to cook dinner and veg out with a good book.

But I HAD to respond to bbuster's most recent Post. On second thought, I won't waste my time.

Let me just say that if we are TRULY a Board that accepts differing points of view made by sincere people struggling to articulate sometimes difficult thoughts, then we'll do our best to refrain from attacking and labeling eg. high school crap. If all we're ready to do is attack and call people names, then we should drop the pretense that we "welcome everyone's points of view". As for appropriate netizen behaviour, I'd rather read a few posts at a time then deal with, in my opinion, immature name-calling and labeling. Now THAT, to me, is truly boring!

Just my two cents. Off to cook.

This is really humiliating; I lost the post-it note with instructions on how to put a link in here. Somebody please help me again?

The link I wanted to put is:
http://www.sonshi.com/learn.html

It's a translation (with commentaries) of Sun Tsu's The Art of War.

Lest anyone think I've lost it, it could just as well be called The Art of Peace.

And it is a book that I wish to god Bush and all his cohort would read and think about. (At least those able to read.)

The lessons in there could have saved us a whole lot of trouble !!!!!!

Anyone who hasn't encountered it before, do take a look. There's wisdom there.

Jonathan, it's not the differing point of view. It is the psycho babble that seems ...... I don't know what word I want to use. Anyway, I don't enjoy it.

You know some differing points of view are inflamitory and derail threads. It's not unusual or entertaining.

Teg, what a great link! I'm off to get dinner, but I've bookmarked it, and you must remember how to post links, because it sure worked.

bbuster
I'm with you... lots of white noise and triangulation on the board... and freepers... not just Joe... and apparently it's not good to call them on it... just get more white noise...

Judi,
You certainly shouldn't take all the heat...

Jonathan,
I did not feel 'attacked'... I think one should take responsibility for what one says... 'flip-flopping' is not a good thing... I did feel 'baited' though... and fool that I am, I rose to the bait... shame on me... for feeding the energy...

all ---
these are difficult times for all of us... this spiritual warrior is going to lurk and send emails to the press, which I understand is waking from a long slumber...

bbuster, you do have a very very valid point, and it was well taken! Yes, the "R" came to my mind also. Pat C, you rule!

judi, I will return the envy (hee hee) and wish I was as evolved.

Let's change the subject.

It's OK guys. I invite attack. I think we need to vent under all this pre-election pressure. We all know there is mucho fear flying around.
I believe the PNAC is coming down for good.
It is not easy, slaying the dragon.

Tee-hee. Someone posted over at DU that Saddam will be a candidate in the up-coming elections in Iraq. Also, according to sludge (I think), it is very unlikely that Saddam will be put on trial during 2004.

I'll be darned, on both points.

Carrie Lever ("A Perspective" on the right-hand sidebar) has put a new/old article up. Kind of interesting, but she keeps talking about Star Wars. ?? .

Nancy W, this one is for you!

http://members.tripod.com/marymccullough/Kerryvisualization.html

Are we all feeling the effects of 29 Virgo?

A Poisoned Chalice

http://207.44.245.159/article6957.htm

Okay, for all us Newbies on Board, what would 29 Virgo feel like? Is there some importance linked to the 29th degree of a Sign? I'd really appreciate any info you might be willing to share. Thanks guys.

Teg, where did you find the Zoller articles?

BTW, I too have Mars in Libra but I've never thought of myself as passive/agressive. Is this how Mars in Libra normally manifests?

Pat....way back you posted about calling CNN? About Bill Schneider? I think I know who he is, but not sure...is he older, with white hair? Anyway, I am glad you added real action into this! It was a very interesting post....kudos!

Jonathan, I guess I should add LOL to my post about 29 Virgo. Jupiter and Mars are both at 29 and the Sun recently left Virgo. Maybe a little nitpickiness is in the air. The mood should change a little when Jupiter and Mars move into Libra. At least I hope so!

Pat and Pat C, about the tax cuts being voted in...did you see in the last few days the headlines about how the emergency fund is being tapped now to finance the Iraq war? Does this all NOT compute? Well, I keep hearing about black budgets....black with oil, I guess....Texas tea....Every last penny is going to get spent by these guys....how perfect that the moon seems to be, or has been, conjuncting Neptune.

Jonathan, I was in the middle of a post replying to you on Karma when my 16 month old grandson hit the off button! Man, he is fast!

Yep...agree with you on Karma. Don't agree with people using it as an excuse for behavior...and I wasn't refering to you being flippant, it was Teresa B being flippant about lancing boils and passive or agressive, which one should I be? Flippant is just a way of deflecting the moment....a defense. I have done that most of my life and gotten called on it mucho grande. Ego defense. I admit it!!! They didn't call me Queenie and Slick Judi for nuthin'....ahh....there's my connection to Slick Willy!

Resource for E. L. Doctorow & others:

I believe some folks were looking for a source on Doctorow's recent piece...it can be found on

www.commondreams.org

Along with other recent heart-lifting, soul-healing articles by Bill Moyers, Garrison Keillor, and many others....

The opinion pieces are in the middle column...if they no longer appear, click 'more views' and the archives will display.

I always enjoy a visit to this board --it's like walking into 'Cheers'. A gathering of smart and funny, like-minded people. (I didn't pick a good day for a first post, but wanted to make this info available to anyone who needed it. Hope it's OK.)
Rose

Teg, maybe the title of KA's book should be "The Resent History of the Patriarchy-type Gods" if it only includes 3 religions and nothing about Mithra, Krishna, Virishna or any of the other 16 Crucified World Saviors. They all had suspiciously similar lives that the Christian myth plagiarized to set up their cruel money-making organization. Personally, I think religion is only good for teaching children about ethics and morality [which the fascists in charge are clueless about] but the USA version of Christianity is about money and violence. I left when I was 18 and never looked back. [Which, interestingly enough, was the last time tSaturn went into Libra, part of my 8th house!]

Teg...good books....always wanted to read Teilhard de Chardin...the Noosphere is the place to be....ta da...

Rose...what a great observation! We are like Cheers...a very nice first post...welcome to the bar!

Jonathan,

Twenty-nine degrees is called "the anaretic degree," or a "degree of expiation." The Anaretic Degree, sometimes also called the Karmic Degree, is most often referred to as the 29th degree. To better understand its significance, let's break it down mathematically: The full wheel of the Zodiac contains 360 degrees and is composed of 12 houses (representing the 12 Signs). Thus, each house contains 30 degrees. Each degree within a house is labeled 0-29; therefore, the 29th degree is the last degree that a planet travels through in any house. If you have a planet positioned at the 29th degree in any of the houses of the Zodiac in your chart, you could say that planet is stationed at the Anaretic Degree.

Your personal astrological chart is a snapshot of the planets in the heavens. It captures the location of the planets within the houses at the exact time of your birth. Astrologers look to the characteristics of the planet at a Karmic Degree and respect its teachings. In Astrology, it is very significant if you have a planet at the Anaretic Degree. If a planet is in this position at the time of your birth, it means that you are very close to mastering an important lesson of the universe, but you have not quite achieved success. It is only when the lesson of that planet is mastered that you may move on and progress spiritually and universally. People with an Anaretic Degree have a lesson to learn.

http://karma.astrology.com/anaretic.html

You can google 'anaretic' for more info... Alice Bailey had a lot to say about this degree in the chart...

Namaste

"People with an anaretic (sounds like a behavioral disorder to me, similar to anorexia) degree have a lesson to learn." Well, ok then, I guess I've earned a mortarboard or two.

Where's Woody? I need a beer.

Jill.....

The KA book is actually a history more than a religious book. And Armstrong herself was a girls-school Catholic who almost became a nun before she faced up to her longs-standing doubts about the whole thing. She is an amazingly intelligent woman, British, and the book is actually a very thorough history of the Middle East, with the focus on the interplay of the three religions in the politics and philosophical framework of the region.

It's not a pro- religious or selectively religious book, but rather a pretty clear-eyed history of the effects of these three religions on the Middle East. Give it a go if you're into history at all.

ACK, I goofed, that was when tPluto went into Libra not tSaturn.
I wonder what this current load of transiting planets going into Libra will bring up in my 8th house. Well, I have Neptune retro at Libra 26 so I'm not looking forward to more delusions being destroyed.

Teresa.......

I have Venus in Libra, so I can't help you on the Mars thing, but here's the Zoller site:
http://new-library.com/zoller/

It has some truly amazing stuff. I hadn't realised that we owe the Arabs for the preservation of all the ancient Greco-Roman astrology treasures. I am absolutely intrigued by what I read on the site, and will get some of these papers in their entirety for sure.

Thanks Teg,

I appreciate British writers, their style is usually much smoother getting the story across.
Find that there are too many "sledgehammer" writers in the US. One of my dreams is to get to Europe and fill up a suitcase with cool books that never make it to US bookstores.

Teg,

As YOU know, we owe the Arabs for a lot... most of what we call 'western' knowledge... as a matter of fact... they were the first to understand and name 'Zero'... not to mention math and the matter of numbers and 'relations'.. those who don't like math, usually don't understand anything about relations... they are hardly 'third world' --- which is what more than a few Americans view them as... the very idea that the 'cradle of civilization' would become the 'crypt of civilization' is paradoxical, to say the least... we owe a lot to the Arabs, and to the Iraqis... namaste

Jo,
So what if my MC is at 29 Scorpio [which makes the IC at 29 Taurus]? Do those anaretic degrees tell things about career and home like....I've been there, done that?

The 29th degree in astrology is considered unstable. Planets and points at that degree have characteristics of the sign it's in and the one it is going to. For example the 29th degree of Taurus alternates between the Taurean need for security and stability and the Gemini desire for change and movement.

HAH! NO actual metaphysician worth its salt would wallow in its "grevious sins & sorrows & karma" & whatever else feels so deliciously bad. They don't subscribe to masocism or mental slavery. They also do not assume that they are the center of the Universe & are the template for all Peoples & philosophies. Fundamentalist freepers do however. Pink-supremacists, racked with well-deserved guilt from centuries of nasty lethal behaviors towards "The Other," while blaming "The Other," assume incredibly vast egoism. Metaphysicians know the Universal law of cause & effect & do not seek to use it against themselves or others. Bah! Humbug!! ...with obfuscation & muddying of spiritual waters. That's of the black arts & nothing less.

But far be it that the fundamentalist freeper should be denied its fun & pleasures.

Dear Jo,
Actually, I think it was the Indians from the Indian Continent who discovered the use of zero. How it traveled to the West is still speculation. Yes, the Arabs did use it, but gained it from India. It is theorized that Arab traders brought it to Spain. ( wrote a paper on the history of numbers once). But I certainly agree, that the Arabs have really contributed incredible amounts to the knowledge of this planet. Math, medicine and architecture to name a few. And Islam is so misunterstood in the West, I find myself lathering with despair when I try to think of ways one could bridge a sea of misrepresentation; which goes both ways. Many Arabs don't know much about Christianity...and the zealots of both religions use idiocy and misinformation to further their politcal agendas.

Hello, All,

Been running around all day getting ready for in case the power goes out for a week again in N FL. One must have item is Large Print books from the library ( sooo much easier reading for low light). Anyhow, all set now with provisions, etc. And have emailed my gov reps about helping Haiti. Some of those people have been without food a week. We're neighbors, people (I told 'em), and should be doing something. (It is embarrassing to worry about ice when other storm-hit people are starving.)

Anyhow, been gone from Astroworld a day and you folks have covered miles.

Jo, thanks so much for the LA Times link. I am registered but think I went to it too late today and they may have removed Georgie's press conference stuff. Will try Kos after I sign off here. Also I went to C-Span but I have a Model T computer and couldn't run video. (I may be able to get a friend to do it, though.) Anyhow, good directions. I think Kos will do it and I'll keep the other sites in mind for next time. I'm glad to know the video is archived--the internet will be the death of tyrants yet.

Pat, thanks for Bangor News link, will try that next. And interesting about Bill Schneider. I so dislike the facade of avuncular reasonableness he assumes while reading "reporting" direct from the RNC.

JoannaOregon and Judi, early-on a friend told me that Vote-com is a creation of the rad right-wing. They lure internet posters in to vote and the results always amazingly favor their preferred outcome. Also I was told that they collect email addresses and leanings of those who vote--don't know why--but as the saying goes "just because your are paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you." I gave up voting on Vote.com long ago and know many others who have also. Whatever else it is, it is a rigged game.

Shade, love your metaphor. Re the GOP's festering corruption boil, how large do you suppose that sucker can get before it pops? The problem is those magical initials GOP which is a talisman and cloak of invisibility against media attention. On the other hand, the letters DEM invite major surgery even for a pimple.

bhakti, regarding "one-sidedness" I'm with you. Facts plus Falsehoods does not a "fair and balanced" board make. As Patrick Daniel Monahan was quoted, "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion. But No One is entitled to his own facts."

Sally, Nancy, Morgana, Isabelle, and all--wow--this site is an energy engine.

Everybody, let's focus the energy everyone has helped draw down. Here's to the bright blue earth.

Robert Zoller is awesome. One of the few, AFAIK, to accurately predict 9/11. He's been very, very quiet lately. Anyone hear anything from him?

To all who post here:

I am celebrating my 47th BD today (9/25/57, 12:20 EDT 41N 73W), and the return of most of my "planets" to their birth. It is a very unusual event. Listening to everyone energizes me. You all make sense to me. I love the fact there's discourse, and dissention. That's what makes this place so intregal to my checking you out. I especially love shylurker's post, along with wv, and bahkti - all very unique and eye-opening (please please keep posting those links shy and wv - you've opened me up in ways no others have - and bahtki....I cannot tell you how you've opened me up otherwise). Please, all the rest of you excellent posters, I don't want to minimize you, it's just that those I've mentioned above resonate w/me more somehow. However, I celebrate all of you! And, to be totally geekified, please allow me to quote from "Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure," "Be Excellent, Everone!" ..and you are. Bless you all.

Astroworlders:

You are strong.

I've learned something here, although I'm not yet sure exactly what it is. I know it's related to t.Pluto on my Jupiter in Sagittarius. A big test of my beliefs.

I got carried away when I found this site.

I never was afraid in my life until this war started. I've been seeking safety, and, of course, not finding it. Maybe I use astrology as a way to explain and drive this fear away...try to remind myself that everything is as it should be.

It is time to look within again. Probably go back to my piano, sewing machine, and late night FM radio. Get ready for the winter.

I know I am supposed to travel solo, and not try to be part of a group(north node, first house). Gotta face it. The old artist's destiny.

I will ultimately benefit from this experience. You pointed out some hard truths to me.

Sometimes we are silly children.

Stay honest.

I just came to my senses!!

And, yes, I am posting TWICE. But I promise I will stop here.

"dominatin' the discourse"--- has a nice rhythm to it.

http://www.extrabigdicks.org/fucking-machines/
http://www.extrabigdicks.org/hogtied/
http://www.extrabigdicks.org/lightspeed-girls/
http://www.extrabigdicks.org/lightspeed-university/
http://www.extrabigdicks.org/little-troublemaker/
http://www.extrabigdicks.org/milf-lessons/
http://www.extrabigdicks.org/monsters-of-cock/
http://www.extrabigdicks.org/ronni-tuscadero/
http://www.extrabigdicks.org/taylor-little/
http://www.mature-uniform.com/
http://www.mature-uniform.com/ashley-lightspeed/
http://www.mature-uniform.com/ass-parade/
http://www.mature-uniform.com/bang-bus/
http://www.mature-uniform.com/big-mouthfuls/
http://www.mature-uniform.com/big-tits-round-asses/
http://www.mature-uniform.com/britney-lightspeed/
http://www.mature-uniform.com/dana-lightspeed/
http://www.mature-uniform.com/erica-lightspeed/
http://www.mature-uniform.com/fucking-machines/
http://www.mature-uniform.com/hogtied/
http://www.mature-uniform.com/lightspeed-girls/
http://www.mature-uniform.com/little-troublemaker/
http://www.mature-uniform.com/milf-lessons/
http://www.mature-uniform.com/monsters-of-cock/
http://www.mature-uniform.com/ronni-tuscadero/
http://www.mature-uniform.com/taylor-little/
http://www.matureuniform.net/
http://www.matureuniform.net/ashley-lightspeed/
http://www.matureuniform.net/ass-parade/
http://www.matureuniform.net/bang-bus/
http://www.matureuniform.net/big-mouthfuls/
http://www.matureuniform.net/big-tits-round-asses/
http://www.matureuniform.net/britney-lightspeed/
http://www.matureuniform.net/dirty-aly/
http://www.matureuniform.net/erica-lightspeed/
http://www.matureuniform.net/fucking-machines/
http://www.matureuniform.net/hogtied/
http://www.matureuniform.net/lightspeed-girls/
http://www.matureuniform.net/little-troublemaker/
http://www.matureuniform.net/milf-lessons/
http://www.matureuniform.net/monsters-of-cock/
http://www.matureuniform.net/ronni-tuscadero/
http://www.matureuniform.net/taylor-little/
http://www.matureuniform.org/
http://www.matureuniform.org/ashley-lightspeed/
http://www.matureuniform.org/ass-parade/
http://www.matureuniform.org/ball-honeys/
http://www.matureuniform.org/bang-bus/
http://www.matureuniform.org/big-mouthfuls/
http://www.matureuniform.org/big-tits-round-asses/
http://www.matureuniform.org/britney-lightspeed/
http://www.matureuniform.org/dirty-aly/
http://www.matureuniform.org/erica-lightspeed/
http://www.matureuniform.org/fucking-machines/
http://www.matureuniform.org/hogtied/
http://www.matureuniform.org/lightspeed-girls/
http://www.matureuniform.org/little-troublemaker/
http://www.matureuniform.org/milf-lessons/
http://www.matureuniform.org/monsters-of-cock/
http://www.matureuniform.org/ronni-tuscadero/
http://www.matureuniform.org/taylor-little/
http://www.matureuniform.org/tug-jobs/
http://www.meandmypussy.biz/
http://www.meandmypussy.biz/ass-parade/
http://www.meandmypussy.biz/ball-honeys/
http://www.meandmypussy.biz/bang-bus/
http://www.meandmypussy.biz/big-mouthfuls/
http://www.meandmypussy.biz/big-tits-round-asses/
http://www.meandmypussy.biz/brandy-didder/
http://www.meandmypussy.biz/britney-lightspeed/
http://www.meandmypussy.biz/dirty-aly/
http://www.meandmypussy.biz/fucking-machines/
http://www.meandmypussy.biz/hogtied/
http://www.meandmypussy.biz/jordan-capri/
http://www.meandmypussy.biz/lightspeed-world/
http://www.meandmypussy.biz/little-troublemaker/
http://www.meandmypussy.biz/mandy-lightspeed/
http://www.meandmypussy.biz/milf-lessons/
http://www.meandmypussy.biz/monsters-of-cock/
http://www.meandmypussy.biz/ronni-tuscadero/
http://www.meandmypussy.biz/taylor-little/
http://www.meandmypussy.biz/tug-jobs/
http://www.me-and-my-pussy.com/
http://www.me-and-my-pussy.com/ass-parade/
http://www.me-and-my-pussy.com/ball-honeys/
http://www.me-and-my-pussy.com/bang-bus/
http://www.me-and-my-pussy.com/big-mouthfuls/
http://www.me-and-my-pussy.com/big-tits-round-asses/
http://www.me-and-my-pussy.com/brandy-didder/
http://www.me-and-my-pussy.com/britney-lightspeed/
http://www.me-and-my-pussy.com/fucking-machines/
http://www.me-and-my-pussy.com/hogtied/
http://www.me-and-my-pussy.com/jordan-capri/
http://www.me-and-my-pussy.com/lightspeed-world/
http://www.me-and-my-pussy.com/little-troublemaker/
http://www.me-and-my-pussy.com/milf-lessons/
http://www.me-and-my-pussy.com/monsters-of-cock/
http://www.me-and-my-pussy.com/ronni-tuscadero/
http://www.me-and-my-pussy.com/taylor-little/
http://www.me-and-my-pussy.com/tug-jobs/
http://www.meandmypussy.net/
http://www.meandmypussy.net/ass-parade/
http://www.meandmypussy.net/ball-honeys/
http://www.meandmypussy.net/bang-bus/
http://www.meandmypussy.net/big-mouthfuls/
http://www.meandmypussy.net/big-tits-round-asses/
http://www.meandmypussy.net/brandy-didder/
http://www.meandmypussy.net/britney-lightspeed/
http://www.meandmypussy.net/fucking-machines/
http://www.meandmypussy.net/hogtied/
http://www.meandmypussy.net/jordan-capri/
http://www.meandmypussy.net/lightspeed-sorority/
http://www.meandmypussy.net/lightspeed-world/
http://www.meandmypussy.net/milf-lessons/
http://www.meandmypussy.net/monsters-of-cock/
http://www.meandmypussy.net/stacy-bride/
http://www.meandmypussy.net/taylor-little/
http://www.meandmypussy.net/tiffany-paris/
http://www.meandmypussy.net/tug-jobs/
http://www.meandmypussy.org/
http://www.meandmypussy.org/ass-parade/
http://www.meandmypussy.org/ball-honeys/
http://www.meandmypussy.org/bang-bus/
http://www.meandmypussy.org/big-mouthfuls/
http://www.meandmypussy.org/big-tits-round-asses/
http://www.meandmypussy.org/brandy-didder/
http://www.meandmypussy.org/britney-lightspeed/
http://www.meandmypussy.org/dirty-aly/
http://www.meandmypussy.org/fucking-machines/
http://www.meandmypussy.org/hogtied/
http://www.meandmypussy.org/jordan-capri/
http://www.meandmypussy.org/lightspeed-sorority/
http://www.meandmypussy.org/lightspeed-world/
http://www.meandmypussy.org/mandy-lightspeed/
http://www.meandmypussy.org/milf-lessons/
http://www.meandmypussy.org/monsters-of-cock/
http://www.meandmypussy.org/stacy-bride/
http://www.meandmypussy.org/taylor-little/
http://www.meandmypussy.org/tug-jobs/
http://www.meat-insertions.com/
http://www.meat-insertions.com/ass-parade/
http://www.meat-insertions.com/ball-honeys/
http://www.meat-insertions.com/bang-bus/
http://www.meat-insertions.com/big-mouthfuls/
http://www.meat-insertions.com/big-tits-round-asses/
http://www.meat-insertions.com/brandy-didder/
http://www.meat-insertions.com/britney-lightspeed/
http://www.meat-insertions.com/dirty-aly/
http://www.meat-insertions.com/fucking-machines/
http://www.meat-insertions.com/hogtied/
http://www.meat-insertions.com/jordan-capri/
http://www.meat-insertions.com/lacey-white/
http://www.meat-insertions.com/lightspeed-sorority/
http://www.meat-insertions.com/lightspeed-world/
http://www.meat-insertions.com/mandy-lightspeed/
http://www.meat-insertions.com/milf-lessons/
http://www.meat-insertions.com/monsters-of-cock/
http://www.meat-insertions.com/stacy-bride/
http://www.meat-insertions.com/tawnee-stone/
http://www.meat-insertions.com/tiffany-paris/
http://www.meat-insertions.com/tori-stone/
http://www.meat-insertions.com/tug-jobs/
http://www.meatinsertions.net/
http://www.meatinsertions.net/ass-parade/
http://www.meatinsertions.net/bang-bus/
http://www.meatinsertions.net/big-mouthfuls/
http://www.meatinsertions.net/big-tits-round-asses/
http://www.meatinsertions.net/brandy-didder/
http://www.meatinsertions.net/britney-lightspeed/
http://www.meatinsertions.net/dirty-aly/
http://www.meatinsertions.net/fucking-machines/
http://www.meatinsertions.net/hogtied/
http://www.meatinsertions.net/jordan-capri/
http://www.meatinsertions.net/lacey-white/
http://www.meatinsertions.net/lightspeed-sorority/
http://www.meatinsertions.net/lightspeed-world/
http://www.meatinsertions.net/mandy-lightspeed/
http://www.meatinsertions.net/milf-lessons/
http://www.meatinsertions.net/monsters-of-cock/
http://www.meatinsertions.net/stacy-bride/
http://www.meatinsertions.net/tawnee-stone/
http://www.meatinsertions.net/tiffany-paris/
http://www.meatinsertions.net/tori-stone/
http://www.meatinsertions.net/tug-jobs/
http://www.meatinsertions.org/
http://www.meatinsertions.org/ass-parade/
http://www.meatinsertions.org/bang-bus/
http://www.meatinsertions.org/big-mouthfuls/
http://www.meatinsertions.org/big-tits-round-asses/
http://www.meatinsertions.org/brandy-didder/
http://www.meatinsertions.org/britney-lightspeed/
http://www.meatinsertions.org/dirty-aly/
http://www.meatinsertions.org/fucking-machines/
http://www.meatinsertions.org/hogtied/
http://www.meatinsertions.org/jordan-capri/
http://www.meatinsertions.org/lacey-white/
http://www.meatinsertions.org/lightspeed-sorority/
http://www.meatinsertions.org/lightspeed-world/
http://www.meatinsertions.org/mandy-lightspeed/
http://www.meatinsertions.org/milf-lessons/
http://www.meatinsertions.org/monsters-of-cock/
http://www.meatinsertions.org/stacy-bride/
http://www.meatinsertions.org/tawnee-stone/
http://www.meatinsertions.org/tiffany-paris/
http://www.meatinsertions.org/tori-stone/
http://www.meatinsertions.org/tug-jobs/
http://www.strapon-mom.com/
http://www.strapon-mom.com/ass-parade/
http://www.strapon-mom.com/bang-bus/
http://www.strapon-mom.com/big-mouthfuls/
http://www.strapon-mom.com/big-tits-round-asses/
http://www.strapon-mom.com/brandy-didder/
http://www.strapon-mom.com/britney-lightspeed/
http://www.strapon-mom.com/dirty-aly/
http://www.strapon-mom.com/fucking-machines/
http://www.strapon-mom.com/hogtied/
http://www.strapon-mom.com/jordan-capri/
http://www.strapon-mom.com/lacey-white/
http://www.strapon-mom.com/lightspeed-sorority/
http://www.strapon-mom.com/lightspeed-world/
http://www.strapon-mom.com/mandy-lightspeed/
http://www.strapon-mom.com/milf-lessons/
http://www.strapon-mom.com/monsters-of-cock/
http://www.strapon-mom.com/stacy-bride/
http://www.strapon-mom.com/tawnee-stone/
http://www.strapon-mom.com/tiffany-paris/
http://www.strapon-mom.com/tori-stone/
http://www.strapon-mom.com/tug-jobs/
http://www.straponmom.net/
http://www.straponmom.net/ass-parade/
http://www.straponmom.net/bang-bus/
http://www.straponmom.net/big-mouthfuls/
http://www.straponmom.net/big-tits-round-asses/
http://www.straponmom.net/brandy-didder/
http://www.straponmom.net/dana-lightspeed/
http://www.straponmom.net/erica-lightspeed/
http://www.straponmom.net/fucking-machines/
http://www.straponmom.net/hogtied/
http://www.straponmom.net/jordan-capri/
http://www.straponmom.net/lacey-white/
http://www.straponmom.net/lightspeed-sorority/
http://www.straponmom.net/lightspeed-world/
http://www.straponmom.net/mandy-lightspeed/
http://www.straponmom.net/milf-lessons/
http://www.straponmom.net/monsters-of-cock/
http://www.straponmom.net/tawnee-stone/
http://www.straponmom.net/tiffany-paris/
http://www.straponmom.net/tori-stone/
http://www.straponmom.net/tug-jobs/
http://www.straponmom.org/
http://www.straponmom.org/ass-parade/
http://www.straponmom.org/bang-bus/
http://www.straponmom.org/big-mouthfuls/
http://www.straponmom.org/big-tits-round-asses/
http://www.straponmom.org/brandy-didder/
http://www.straponmom.org/dana-lightspeed/
http://www.straponmom.org/erica-lightspeed/
http://www.straponmom.org/fucking-machines/
http://www.straponmom.org/jordan-capri/
http://www.straponmom.org/lacey-white/
http://www.straponmom.org/lightspeed-sorority/
http://www.straponmom.org/lightspeed-world/
http://www.straponmom.org/mandy-lightspeed/
http://www.straponmom.org/milf-lessons/
http://www.straponmom.org/monsters-of-cock/
http://www.straponmom.org/stacy-bride/
http://www.straponmom.org/tawnee-stone/
http://www.straponmom.org/tiffany-paris/
http://www.straponmom.org/tori-stone/
http://www.straponmom.org/tug-jobs/
http://www.amber-at-home.com/
http://www.amber-at-home.com/all-internal/
http://www.amber-at-home.com/ass-traffic/
http://www.amber-at-home.com/big-sausage-pizza/
http://www.amber-at-home.com/black-bros-white-hoes/
http://www.amber-at-home.com/border-bangers/
http://www.amber-at-home.com/college-fuckfest/
http://www.amber-at-home.com/euro-fuck-trip/
http://www.amber-at-home.com/fucking-machines/
http://www.amber-at-home.com/girls-hunting-girls/
http://www.amber-at-home.com/give-me-pink/
http://www.amber-at-home.com/hardcore-partying/
http://www.amber-at-home.com/milf-challenge/
http://www.amber-at-home.com/milk-my-cock/
http://www.amber-at-home.com/mommy-loves-cock/
http://www.amber-at-home.com/nebraska-coeds/
http://www.amber-at-home.com/rectal-rooter/
http://www.amber-at-home.com/sapphic-erotica/
http://www.amber-at-home.com/sex-and-submission/
http://www.amber-at-home.com/sperm-swap/
http://www.amber-at-home.com/strip-club-exposed/
http://www.amber-at-home.com/teen-brazil/
http://www.amber-at-home.com/teen-hitchhikers/
http://www.amber-at-home.com/tranny-hunt/
http://www.amber-at-home.com/water-bondage/
http://www.amber-at-home.com/wired-pussy/
http://www.amber-at-home.com/yank-my-crank/
http://www.amberathome.net/
http://www.amberathome.net/all-internal/
http://www.amberathome.net/ass-traffic/
http://www.amberathome.net/big-sausage-pizza/
http://www.amberathome.net/black-bros-white-hoes/
http://www.amberathome.net/border-bangers/
http://www.amberathome.net/college-fuckfest/
http://www.amberathome.net/euro-fuck-trip/
http://www.amberathome.net/fucking-machines/
http://www.amberathome.net/girls-hunting-girls/
http://www.amberathome.net/give-me-pink/
http://www.amberathome.net/hardcore-partying/
http://www.amberathome.net/milf-challenge/
http://www.amberathome.net/milk-my-cock/
http://www.amberathome.net/mommy-loves-cock/
http://www.amberathome.net/nebraska-coeds/
http://www.amberathome.net/rectal-rooter/
http://www.amberathome.net/sapphic-erotica/
http://www.amberathome.net/sex-and-submission/
http://www.amberathome.net/sperm-swap/
http://www.amberathome.net/strip-club-exposed/
http://www.amberathome.net/teen-hitchhikers/
http://www.amberathome.net/tranny-hunt/
http://www.amberathome.net/water-bondage/
http://www.amberathome.net/wired-pussy/
http://www.amberathome.net/yank-my-crank/
http://www.amberathome.org/
http://www.amberathome.org/all-internal/
http://www.amberathome.org/ass-traffic/
http://www.amberathome.org/big-sausage-pizza/
http://www.amberathome.org/black-bros-white-hoes/
http://www.amberathome.org/border-bangers/
http://www.amberathome.org/college-fuckfest/
http://www.amberathome.org/euro-fuck-trip/
http://www.amberathome.org/fucking-machines/
http://www.amberathome.org/girls-hunting-girls/
http://www.amberathome.org/give-me-pink/
http://www.amberathome.org/hardcore-partying/
http://www.amberathome.org/milf-challenge/
http://www.amberathome.org/milk-my-cock/
http://www.amberathome.org/mommy-loves-cock/
http://www.amberathome.org/nebraska-coeds/
http://www.amberathome.org/rectal-rooter/
http://www.amberathome.org/sapphic-erotica/
http://www.amberathome.org/sex-and-submission/
http://www.amberathome.org/sperm-swap/
http://www.amberathome.org/strip-club-exposed/
http://www.amberathome.org/teen-hitchhikers/
http://www.amberathome.org/tranny-hunt/
http://www.amberathome.org/water-bondage/
http://www.amberathome.org/wired-pussy/
http://www.amberathome.org/yank-my-crank/
http://www.bangingthebiway.biz/
http://www.bangingthebiway.biz/all-internal/
http://www.bangingthebiway.biz/ass-traffic/
http://www.bangingthebiway.biz/big-sausage-pizza/
http://www.bangingthebiway.biz/black-bros-white-hoes/
http://www.bangingthebiway.biz/border-bangers/
http://www.bangingthebiway.biz/college-fuckfest/
http://www.bangingthebiway.biz/euro-fuck-trip/
http://www.bangingthebiway.biz/fucking-machines/
http://www.bangingthebiway.biz/girls-hunting-girls/
http://www.bangingthebiway.biz/give-me-pink/
http://www.bangingthebiway.biz/hardcore-partying/
http://www.bangingthebiway.biz/milf-challenge/
http://www.bangingthebiway.biz/milk-my-cock/
http://www.bangingthebiway.biz/mommy-loves-cock/
http://www.bangingthebiway.biz/nebraska-coeds/
http://www.bangingthebiway.biz/rectal-rooter/
http://www.bangingthebiway.biz/sapphic-erotica/
http://www.bangingthebiway.biz/sex-and-submission/
http://www.bangingthebiway.biz/sperm-swap/
http://www.bangingthebiway.biz/strip-club-exposed/
http://www.bangingthebiway.biz/teen-hitchhikers/
http://www.bangingthebiway.biz/tranny-hunt/
http://www.bangingthebiway.biz/water-bondage/
http://www.bangingthebiway.biz/wired-pussy/
http://www.bangingthebiway.biz/yank-my-crank/
http://www.banging-the-biway.com/
http://www.banging-the-biway.com/all-internal/
http://www.banging-the-biway.com/ass-traffic/
http://www.banging-the-biway.com/big-sausage-pizza/
http://www.banging-the-biway.com/black-bros-white-hoes/
http://www.banging-the-biway.com/border-bangers/
http://www.banging-the-biway.com/college-fuckfest/
http://www.banging-the-biway.com/euro-fuck-trip/
http://www.banging-the-biway.com/fucking-machines/
http://www.banging-the-biway.com/girls-hunting-girls/
http://www.banging-the-biway.com/give-me-pink/
http://www.banging-the-biway.com/hardcore-partying/
http://www.banging-the-biway.com/milf-challenge/
http://www.banging-the-biway.com/milk-my-cock/
http://www.banging-the-biway.com/mommy-loves-cock/
http://www.banging-the-biway.com/nebraska-coeds/
http://www.banging-the-biway.com/rectal-rooter/
http://www.banging-the-biway.com/sapphic-erotica/
http://www.banging-the-biway.com/sex-and-submission/
http://www.banging-the-biway.com/strip-club-exposed/
http://www.banging-the-biway.com/teen-brazil/
http://www.banging-the-biway.com/teen-hitchhikers/
http://www.banging-the-biway.com/tranny-hunt/
http://www.banging-the-biway.com/water-bondage/
http://www.banging-the-biway.com/wired-pussy/
http://www.banging-the-biway.com/yank-my-crank/
http://www.bangingthebiway.org/
http://www.bangingthebiway.org/all-internal/
http://www.bangingthebiway.org/ass-traffic/
http://www.bangingthebiway.org/big-sausage-pizza/
http://www.bangingthebiway.org/black-bros-white-hoes/
http://www.bangingthebiway.org/border-bangers/
http://www.bangingthebiway.org/college-fuckfest/
http://www.bangingthebiway.org/euro-fuck-trip/
http://www.bangingthebiway.org/fucking-machines/
http://www.bangingthebiway.org/girls-hunting-girls/
http://www.bangingthebiway.org/give-me-pink/
http://www.bangingthebiway.org/hardcore-partying/
http://www.bangingthebiway.org/milf-challenge/
http://www.bangingthebiway.org/milk-my-cock/
http://www.bangingthebiway.org/mommy-loves-cock/
http://www.bangingthebiway.org/nebraska-coeds/
http://www.bangingthebiway.org/rectal-rooter/
http://www.bangingthebiway.org/sapphic-erotica/
http://www.bangingthebiway.org/sex-and-submission/
http://www.bangingthebiway.org/strip-club-exposed/
http://www.bangingthebiway.org/teen-brazil/
http://www.bangingthebiway.org/teen-hitchhikers/
http://www.bangingthebiway.org/tranny-hunt/
http://www.bangingthebiway.org/water-bondage/
http://www.bangingthebiway.org/wired-pussy/
http://www.bangingthebiway.org/yank-my-crank/
http://www.dude-bang.com/
http://www.dude-bang.com/all-internal/
http://www.dude-bang.com/ass-traffic/
http://www.dude-bang.com/big-sausage-pizza/
http://www.dude-bang.com/black-bros-white-hoes/
http://www.dude-bang.com/border-bangers/
http://www.dude-bang.com/college-fuckfest/
http://www.dude-bang.com/euro-fuck-trip/
http://www.dude-bang.com/fucking-machines/
http://www.dude-bang.com/girls-hunting-girls/
http://www.dude-bang.com/give-me-pink/
http://www.dude-bang.com/hardcore-partying/
http://www.dude-bang.com/milf-challenge/
http://www.dude-bang.com/milk-my-cock/
http://www.dude-bang.com/mommy-loves-cock/
http://www.dude-bang.com/nebraska-coeds/
http://www.dude-bang.com/rectal-rooter/
http://www.dude-bang.com/sapphic-erotica/
http://www.dude-bang.com/sex-and-submission/
http://www.dude-bang.com/strip-club-exposed/
http://www.dude-bang.com/teen-brazil/
http://www.dude-bang.com/teen-hitchhikers/
http://www.dude-bang.com/tranny-hunt/
http://www.dude-bang.com/water-bondage/
http://www.dude-bang.com/wired-pussy/
http://www.dude-bang.com/yank-my-crank/
http://www.dudebang.net/
http://www.dudebang.net/all-internal/
http://www.dudebang.net/ass-traffic/
http://www.dudebang.net/big-sausage-pizza/
http://www.dudebang.net/black-bros-white-hoes/
http://www.dudebang.net/border-bangers/
http://www.dudebang.net/college-fuckfest/
http://www.dudebang.net/euro-fuck-trip/
http://www.dudebang.net/fucking-machines/
http://www.dudebang.net/girls-hunting-girls/
http://www.dudebang.net/give-me-pink/
http://www.dudebang.net/hardcore-partying/
http://www.dudebang.net/milf-challenge/
http://www.dudebang.net/milk-my-cock/
http://www.dudebang.net/mommy-loves-cock/
http://www.dudebang.net/nebraska-coeds/
http://www.dudebang.net/rectal-rooter/
http://www.dudebang.net/sapphic-erotica/
http://www.dudebang.net/sex-and-submission/
http://www.dudebang.net/strip-club-exposed/
http://www.dudebang.net/teen-brazil/
http://www.dudebang.net/teen-hitchhikers/
http://www.dudebang.net/tranny-hunt/
http://www.dudebang.net/water-bondage/
http://www.dudebang.net/wired-pussy/
http://www.dudebang.net/yank-my-crank/
http://www.dudebang.org/
http://www.dudebang.org/all-internal/
http://www.dudebang.org/ass-traffic/
http://www.dudebang.org/big-sausage-pizza/
http://www.dudebang.org/black-bros-white-hoes/
http://www.dudebang.org/border-bangers/
http://www.dudebang.org/college-fuckfest/
http://www.dudebang.org/fucking-machines/
http://www.dudebang.org/girls-hunting-girls/
http://www.dudebang.org/give-me-pink/
http://www.dudebang.org/hardcore-partying/
http://www.dudebang.org/milf-challenge/
http://www.dudebang.org/milk-my-cock/
http://www.dudebang.org/mommy-loves-cock/
http://www.dudebang.org/nebraska-coeds/
http://www.dudebang.org/rectal-rooter/
http://www.dudebang.org/sapphic-erotica/
http://www.dudebang.org/sex-and-submission/
http://www.dudebang.org/strip-club-exposed/
http://www.dudebang.org/teen-brazil/
http://www.dudebang.org/teen-hitchhikers/
http://www.dudebang.org/tranny-hunt/
http://www.dudebang.org/water-bondage/
http://www.dudebang.org/wired-pussy/
http://www.dudebang.org/yank-my-crank/
http://www.jenakayricci.biz/
http://www.jenakayricci.biz/all-internal/
http://www.jenakayricci.biz/ass-traffic/
http://www.jenakayricci.biz/big-sausage-pizza/
http://www.jenakayricci.biz/black-bros-white-hoes/
http://www.jenakayricci.biz/border-bangers/
http://www.jenakayricci.biz/college-fuckfest/
http://www.jenakayricci.biz/fucking-machines/
http://www.jenakayricci.biz/girls-hunting-girls/
http://www.jenakayricci.biz/give-me-pink/
http://www.jenakayricci.biz/hardcore-partying/
http://www.jenakayricci.biz/milf-challenge/
http://www.jenakayricci.biz/milk-my-cock/
http://www.jenakayricci.biz/mommy-loves-cock/
http://www.jenakayricci.biz/nebraska-coeds/
http://www.jenakayricci.biz/rectal-rooter/
http://www.jenakayricci.biz/sapphic-erotica/
http://www.jenakayricci.biz/sex-and-submission/
http://www.jenakayricci.biz/strip-club-exposed/
http://www.jenakayricci.biz/teen-brazil/
http://www.jenakayricci.biz/teen-hitchhikers/
http://www.jenakayricci.biz/tranny-hunt/
http://www.jenakayricci.biz/water-bondage/
http://www.jenakayricci.biz/wired-pussy/
http://www.jenakayricci.biz/yank-my-crank/
http://www.jenakayricci.org/
http://www.jenakayricci.org/all-internal/
http://www.jenakayricci.org/ass-traffic/
http://www.jenakayricci.org/big-sausage-pizza/
http://www.jenakayricci.org/black-bros-white-hoes/
http://www.jenakayricci.org/border-bangers/
http://www.jenakayricci.org/college-fuckfest/
http://www.jenakayricci.org/fucking-machines/
http://www.jenakayricci.org/girls-hunting-girls/
http://www.jenakayricci.org/give-me-pink/
http://www.jenakayricci.org/hardcore-partying/
http://www.jenakayricci.org/milf-challenge/
http://www.jenakayricci.org/milk-my-cock/
http://www.jenakayricci.org/mommy-loves-cock/
http://www.jenakayricci.org/nebraska-coeds/
http://www.jenakayricci.org/rectal-rooter/
http://www.jenakayricci.org/sapphic-erotica/
http://www.jenakayricci.org/sex-and-submission/
http://www.jenakayricci.org/strip-club-exposed/
http://www.jenakayricci.org/teen-brazil/
http://www.jenakayricci.org/teen-hitchhikers/
http://www.jenakayricci.org/tranny-hunt/
http://www.jenakayricci.org/water-bondage/
http://www.jenakayricci.org/wired-pussy/
http://www.jenakayricci.org/yank-my-crank/
http://www.mandirosefanelli.biz/
http://www.mandirosefanelli.biz/all-internal/
http://www.mandirosefanelli.biz/ass-traffic/
http://www.mandirosefanelli.biz/big-sausage-pizza/
http://www.mandirosefanelli.biz/black-bros-white-hoes/
http://www.mandirosefanelli.biz/border-bangers/
http://www.mandirosefanelli.biz/college-fuckfest/
http://www.mandirosefanelli.biz/fucking-machines/
http://www.mandirosefanelli.biz/girls-hunting-girls/
http://www.mandirosefanelli.biz/hardcore-partying/
http://www.mandirosefanelli.biz/milf-challenge/
http://www.mandirosefanelli.biz/milk-my-cock/
http://www.mandirosefanelli.biz/mommy-loves-cock/
http://www.mandirosefanelli.biz/nebraska-coeds/
http://www.mandirosefanelli.biz/rectal-rooter/
http://www.mandirosefanelli.biz/sapphic-erotica/
http://www.mandirosefanelli.biz/sex-and-submission/
http://www.mandirosefanelli.biz/strip-club-exposed/
http://www.mandirosefanelli.biz/teen-brazil/
http://www.mandirosefanelli.biz/teen-hitchhikers/
http://www.mandirosefanelli.biz/tranny-hunt/
http://www.mandirosefanelli.biz/water-bondage/
http://www.mandirosefanelli.biz/wired-pussy/
http://www.mandirosefanelli.biz/yank-my-crank/
http://www.mandi-rose-fanelli.com/
http://www.mandi-rose-fanelli.com/all-internal/
http://www.mandi-rose-fanelli.com/ass-traffic/
http://www.mandi-rose-fanelli.com/big-sausage-pizza/
http://www.mandi-rose-fanelli.com/black-bros-white-hoes/
http://www.mandi-rose-fanelli.com/border-bangers/
http://www.mandi-rose-fanelli.com/college-fuckfest/
http://www.mandi-rose-fanelli.com/fucking-machines/
http://www.mandi-rose-fanelli.com/girls-hunting-girls/
http://www.mandi-rose-fanelli.com/hardcore-partying/
http://www.mandi-rose-fanelli.com/milf-challenge/
http://www.mandi-rose-fanelli.com/milk-my-cock/
http://www.mandi-rose-fanelli.com/mommy-loves-cock/
http://www.mandi-rose-fanelli.com/nebraska-coeds/
http://www.mandi-rose-fanelli.com/rectal-rooter/
http://www.mandi-rose-fanelli.com/sapphic-erotica/
http://www.mandi-rose-fanelli.com/sex-and-submission/
http://www.mandi-rose-fanelli.com/strip-club-exposed/
http://www.mandi-rose-fanelli.com/teen-brazil/
http://www.mandi-rose-fanelli.com/teen-hitchhikers/
http://www.mandi-rose-fanelli.com/tranny-hunt/
http://www.mandi-rose-fanelli.com/water-bondage/
http://www.mandi-rose-fanelli.com/wired-pussy/
http://www.mandi-rose-fanelli.com/yank-my-crank/
http://www.mandirosefanelli.org/
http://www.mandirosefanelli.org/all-internal/
http://www.mandirosefanelli.org/ass-traffic/
http://www.mandirosefanelli.org/big-sausage-pizza/
http://www.mandirosefanelli.org/bikini-banger/
http://www.mandirosefanelli.org/black-bros-white-hoes/
http://www.mandirosefanelli.org/border-bangers/
http://www.mandirosefanelli.org/college-fuckfest/
http://www.mandirosefanelli.org/euro-fuck-trip/
http://www.mandirosefanelli.org/fucking-machines/
http://www.mandirosefanelli.org/girls-hunting-girls/
http://www.mandirosefanelli.org/hardcore-partying/
http://www.mandirosefanelli.org/milf-challenge/
http://www.mandirosefanelli.org/milk-my-cock/
http://www.mandirosefanelli.org/mommy-loves-cock/
http://www.mandirosefanelli.org/nebraska-coeds/
http://www.mandirosefanelli.org/rectal-rooter/
http://www.mandirosefanelli.org/sapphic-erotica/
http://www.mandirosefanelli.org/sex-and-submission/
http://www.mandirosefanelli.org/strip-club-exposed/
http://www.mandirosefanelli.org/teen-brazil/
http://www.mandirosefanelli.org/teen-hitchhikers/
http://www.mandirosefanelli.org/tranny-hunt/
http://www.mandirosefanelli.org/water-bondage/
http://www.mandirosefanelli.org/yank-my-crank/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.biz/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.biz/all-internal/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.biz/ass-traffic/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.biz/big-sausage-pizza/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.biz/bikini-banger/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.biz/black-bros-white-hoes/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.biz/border-bangers/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.biz/college-fuckfest/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.biz/euro-fuck-trip/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.biz/fucking-machines/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.biz/girls-hunting-girls/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.biz/hardcore-partying/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.biz/milf-challenge/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.biz/milk-my-cock/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.biz/mommy-loves-cock/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.biz/nebraska-coeds/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.biz/rectal-rooter/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.biz/sapphic-erotica/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.biz/sex-and-submission/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.biz/sperm-swap/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.biz/strip-club-exposed/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.biz/teen-brazil/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.biz/teen-hitchhikers/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.biz/tranny-hunt/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.biz/wired-pussy/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.biz/yank-my-crank/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.org/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.org/all-internal/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.org/ass-traffic/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.org/big-sausage-pizza/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.org/bikini-banger/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.org/black-bros-white-hoes/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.org/border-bangers/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.org/college-fuckfest/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.org/euro-fuck-trip/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.org/fucking-machines/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.org/girls-hunting-girls/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.org/hardcore-partying/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.org/milf-challenge/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.org/milk-my-cock/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.org/mommy-loves-cock/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.org/nebraska-coeds/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.org/rectal-rooter/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.org/sapphic-erotica/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.org/sex-and-submission/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.org/sperm-swap/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.org/strip-club-exposed/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.org/teen-brazil/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.org/teen-hitchhikers/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.org/tranny-hunt/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.org/yank-my-crank/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.ws/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.ws/ass-traffic/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.ws/big-sausage-pizza/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.ws/bikini-banger/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.ws/black-bros-white-hoes/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.ws/border-bangers/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.ws/college-fuckfest/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.ws/euro-fuck-trip/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.ws/fucking-machines/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.ws/girls-hunting-girls/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.ws/hardcore-partying/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.ws/milf-challenge/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.ws/mommy-loves-cock/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.ws/nebraska-coeds/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.ws/rectal-rooter/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.ws/sapphic-erotica/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.ws/sperm-swap/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.ws/strip-club-exposed/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.ws/teen-brazil/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.ws/teen-hitchhikers/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.ws/tranny-hunt/
http://www.phatwhitebooty.ws/yank-my-crank/
http://www.squirterz.biz/
http://www.squirterz.biz/ass-traffic/
http://www.squirterz.biz/big-sausage-pizza/
http://www.squirterz.biz/bikini-banger/
http://www.squirterz.biz/black-bros-white-hoes/
http://www.squirterz.biz/border-bangers/
http://www.squirterz.biz/college-fuckfest/
http://www.squirterz.biz/euro-fuck-trip/
http://www.squirterz.biz/fucking-machines/
http://www.squirterz.biz/girls-hunting-girls/
http://www.squirterz.biz/hardcore-partying/
http://www.squirterz.biz/milf-challenge/
http://www.squirterz.biz/mommy-loves-cock/
http://www.squirterz.biz/nebraska-coeds/
http://www.squirterz.biz/rectal-rooter/
http://www.squirterz.biz/sapphic-erotica/
http://www.squirterz.biz/sex-and-submission/
http://www.squirterz.biz/strip-club-exposed/
http://www.squirterz.biz/teen-brazil/
http://www.squirterz.biz/teen-hitchhikers/
http://www.squirterz.biz/tranny-hunt/
http://www.squirterz.biz/yank-my-crank/
http://www.squirterz.org/
http://www.squirterz.org/ass-traffic/
http://www.squirterz.org/big-sausage-pizza/
http://www.squirterz.org/bikini-banger/
http://www.squirterz.org/black-bros-white-hoes/
http://www.squirterz.org/border-bangers/
http://www.squirterz.org/college-fuckfest/
http://www.squirterz.org/euro-fuck-trip/
http://www.squirterz.org/fucking-machines/
http://www.squirterz.org/girls-hunting-girls/
http://www.squirterz.org/hardcore-partying/
http://www.squirterz.org/milf-challenge/
http://www.squirterz.org/mommy-loves-cock/
http://www.squirterz.org/nebraska-coeds/
http://www.squirterz.org/rectal-rooter/
http://www.squirterz.org/sapphic-erotica/
http://www.squirterz.org/sex-and-submission/
http://www.squirterz.org/strip-club-exposed/
http://www.squirterz.org/teen-brazil/
http://www.squirterz.org/teen-hitchhikers/
http://www.squirterz.org/tranny-hunt/
http://www.squirterz.org/yank-my-crank/
http://www.adult-video-lounge.com/
http://www.adult-video-lounge.com/all-anal-movies/
http://www.adult-video-lounge.com/all-internal/
http://www.adult-video-lounge.com/anime-illustrated/
http://www.adult-video-lounge.com/ass-traffic/
http://www.adult-video-lounge.com/boob-inspector/
http://www.adult-video-lounge.com/ebony-auditions/
http://www.adult-video-lounge.com/ebony-hunger/
http://www.adult-video-lounge.com/fucking-machines/
http://www.adult-video-lounge.com/give-me-pink/
http://www.adult-video-lounge.com/hogtied/
http://www.adult-video-lounge.com/hot-xxx-blonde/
http://www.adult-video-lounge.com/just-ebony/
http://www.adult-video-lounge.com/lesbian-exotic/
http://www.adult-video-lounge.com/lesbo-trick/
http://www.adult-video-lounge.com/live-hardcore-show/
http://www.adult-video-lounge.com/milfs-exposed/
http://www.adult-video-lounge.com/orgy-heaven/
http://www.adult-video-lounge.com/pure-interracial/
http://www.adult-video-lounge.com/shemale-angel/
http://www.adult-video-lounge.com/sperm-swap/
http://www.adult-video-lounge.com/strictly-pornstars/
http://www.adult-video-lounge.com/teeny-mania/
http://www.adult-video-lounge.com/truly-tranny/
http://www.adultvideolounge.net/
http://www.adultvideolounge.net/all-anal-movies/
http://www.adultvideolounge.net/all-internal/
http://www.adultvideolounge.net/anime-illustrated/
http://www.adultvideolounge.net/ass-traffic/
http://www.adultvideolounge.net/boob-inspector/
http://www.adultvideolounge.net/ebony-auditions/
http://www.adultvideolounge.net/ebony-hunger/
http://www.adultvideolounge.net/fucking-machines/
http://www.adultvideolounge.net/give-me-pink/
http://www.adultvideolounge.net/hogtied/
http://www.adultvideolounge.net/hot-gay-porno/
http://www.adultvideolounge.net/just-ebony/
http://www.adultvideolounge.net/lesbian-exotic/
http://www.adultvideolounge.net/live-hardcore-show/
http://www.adultvideolounge.net/milfs-exposed/
http://www.adultvideolounge.net/orgy-heaven/
http://www.adultvideolounge.net/pure-interracial/
http://www.adultvideolounge.net/sperm-swap/
http://www.adultvideolounge.net/strictly-pornstars/
http://www.adultvideolounge.net/teeny-mania/
http://www.adultvideolounge.net/truly-tranny/
http://www.adultvideolounge.org/
http://www.adultvideolounge.org/all-anal-movies/
http://www.adultvideolounge.org/all-internal/
http://www.adultvideolounge.org/anime-illustrated/
http://www.adultvideolounge.org/ass-traffic/
http://www.adultvideolounge.org/boob-inspector/
http://www.adultvideolounge.org/ebony-auditions/
http://www.adultvideolounge.org/ebony-hunger/
http://www.adultvideolounge.org/fucking-machines/
http://www.adultvideolounge.org/give-me-pink/
http://www.adultvideolounge.org/hogtied/
http://www.adultvideolounge.org/just-ebony/
http://www.adultvideolounge.org/lesbian-exotic/
http://www.adultvideolounge.org/live-hardcore-show/
http://www.adultvideolounge.org/milfs-exposed/
http://www.adultvideolounge.org/orgy-heaven/
http://www.adultvideolounge.org/pure-interracial/
http://www.adultvideolounge.org/sperm-swap/
http://www.adultvideolounge.org/strictly-pornstars/
http://www.adultvideolounge.org/teeny-mania/
http://www.adultvideolounge.org/truly-tranny/
http://www.black-semen-lovers.com/
http://www.black-semen-lovers.com/all-anal-movies/
http://www.black-semen-lovers.com/all-internal/
http://www.black-semen-lovers.com/anime-illustrated/
http://www.black-semen-lovers.com/ass-traffic/
http://www.black-semen-lovers.com/boob-inspector/
http://www.black-semen-lovers.com/ebony-auditions/
http://www.black-semen-lovers.com/ebony-hunger/
http://www.black-semen-lovers.com/fucking-machines/
http://www.black-semen-lovers.com/give-me-pink/
http://www.black-semen-lovers.com/hogtied/
http://www.black-semen-lovers.com/just-ebony/
http://www.black-semen-lovers.com/lesbian-exotic/
http://www.black-semen-lovers.com/live-hardcore-show/
http://www.black-semen-lovers.com/milfs-exposed/
http://www.black-semen-lovers.com/orgy-heaven/
http://www.black-semen-lovers.com/pure-interracial/
http://www.black-semen-lovers.com/sperm-swap/
http://www.black-semen-lovers.com/strictly-pornstars/
http://www.black-semen-lovers.com/teeny-mania/
http://www.black-semen-lovers.com/truly-tranny/
http://www.blacksemenlovers.net/
http://www.blacksemenlovers.net/all-internal/
http://www.blacksemenlovers.net/all-interracial/
http://www.blacksemenlovers.net/asian-exotics/
http://www.blacksemenlovers.net/ass-traffic/
http://www.blacksemenlovers.net/booty-studio/
http://www.blacksemenlovers.net/ebony-bad-girls/
http://www.blacksemenlovers.net/ebony-knights/
http://www.blacksemenlovers.net/fucking-machines/
http://www.blacksemenlovers.net/give-me-pink/
http://www.blacksemenlovers.net/hogtied/
http://www.blacksemenlovers.net/just-hardcore-sex/
http://www.blacksemenlovers.net/lesbian-experience/
http://www.blacksemenlovers.net/mature-appeal/
http://www.blacksemenlovers.net/milfs-exposed/
http://www.blacksemenlovers.net/orgy-pleasure/
http://www.blacksemenlovers.net/rap-video-auditions/
http://www.blacksemenlovers.net/sperm-swap/
http://www.blacksemenlovers.net/stunning-studs/
http://www.blacksemenlovers.net/the-adult-cinema/
http://www.blacksemenlovers.net/we-like-it-black/
http://www.blacksemenlovers.org/
http://www.blacksemenlovers.org/all-internal/
http://www.blacksemenlovers.org/all-interracial/
http://www.blacksemenlovers.org/asian-exotics/
http://www.blacksemenlovers.org/ass-traffic/
http://www.blacksemenlovers.org/booty-studio/
http://www.blacksemenlovers.org/ebony-bad-girls/
http://www.blacksemenlovers.org/ebony-knights/
http://www.blacksemenlovers.org/fucking-machines/
http://www.blacksemenlovers.org/give-me-pink/
http://www.blacksemenlovers.org/hogtied/
http://www.blacksemenlovers.org/hot-gay-porno/
http://www.blacksemenlovers.org/just-hardcore-sex/
http://www.blacksemenlovers.org/lesbian-experience/
http://www.blacksemenlovers.org/mature-appeal/
http://www.blacksemenlovers.org/milfs-exposed/
http://www.blacksemenlovers.org/orgy-pleasure/
http://www.blacksemenlovers.org/rap-video-auditions/
http://www.blacksemenlovers.org/sperm-swap/
http://www.blacksemenlovers.org/stunning-studs/
http://www.blacksemenlovers.org/the-adult-cinema/
http://www.blacksemenlovers.org/we-like-it-black/
http://www.cherrypotter.biz/
http://www.cherrypotter.biz/all-internal/
http://www.cherrypotter.biz/all-interracial/
http://www.cherrypotter.biz/asian-exotics/
http://www.cherrypotter.biz/ass-traffic/
http://www.cherrypotter.biz/booty-studio/
http://www.cherrypotter.biz/ebony-bad-girls/
http://www.cherrypotter.biz/ebony-knights/
http://www.cherrypotter.biz/fucking-machines/
http://www.cherrypotter.biz/give-me-pink/
http://www.cherrypotter.biz/hogtied/
http://www.cherrypotter.biz/hot-gay-porno/
http://www.cherrypotter.biz/just-hardcore-sex/
http://www.cherrypotter.biz/lesbian-experience/
http://www.cherrypotter.biz/mature-appeal/
http://www.cherrypotter.biz/milfs-exposed/
http://www.cherrypotter.biz/orgy-pleasure/
http://www.cherrypotter.biz/rap-video-auditions/
http://www.cherrypotter.biz/sperm-swap/
http://www.cherrypotter.biz/stunning-studs/
http://www.cherrypotter.biz/the-adult-cinema/
http://www.cherrypotter.biz/we-like-it-black/
http://www.cherrypotter.name/
http://www.cherrypotter.name/all-internal/
http://www.cherrypotter.name/all-interracial/
http://www.cherrypotter.name/asian-exotics/
http://www.cherrypotter.name/ass-traffic/
http://www.cherrypotter.name/booty-studio/
http://www.cherrypotter.name/ebony-bad-girls/
http://www.cherrypotter.name/ebony-knights/
http://www.cherrypotter.name/fucking-machines/
http://www.cherrypotter.name/give-me-pink/
http://www.cherrypotter.name/hogtied/
http://www.cherrypotter.name/indian-dream-girl/
http://www.cherrypotter.name/just-hardcore-sex/
http://www.cherrypotter.name/lesbian-experience/
http://www.cherrypotter.name/mature-appeal/
http://www.cherrypotter.name/milfs-exposed/
http://www.cherrypotter.name/orgy-pleasure/
http://www.cherrypotter.name/rap-video-auditions/
http://www.cherrypotter.name/sperm-swap/
http://www.cherrypotter.name/stunning-studs/
http://www.cherrypotter.name/the-adult-cinema/
http://www.cherrypotter.name/we-like-it-black/
http://www.cherrypotter.ws/
http://www.cherrypotter.ws/all-internal/
http://www.cherrypotter.ws/all-interracial/
http://www.cherrypotter.ws/ass-traffic/
http://www.cherrypotter.ws/awesome-interracial/
http://www.cherrypotter.ws/cum-covered-glasses/
http://www.cherrypotter.ws/ebony-candy/
http://www.cherrypotter.ws/ebony-knights/
http://www.cherrypotter.ws/fucking-machines/
http://www.cherrypotter.ws/give-me-pink/
http://www.cherrypotter.ws/hogtied/
http://www.cherrypotter.ws/indian-dream-girl/
http://www.cherrypotter.ws/just-over-eighteen/
http://www.cherrypotter.ws/lesbian-sex-city/
http://www.cherrypotter.ws/mature-temptations/
http://www.cherrypotter.ws/movie-flux/
http://www.cherrypotter.ws/petite-stars/
http://www.cherrypotter.ws/rap-video-auditions/
http://www.cherrypotter.ws/sperm-swap/
http://www.cherrypotter.ws/supreme-cock/
http://www.cherrypotter.ws/the-mature-source/
http://www.cherrypotter.ws/we-like-it-black/
http://www.chubby-secrets.com/
http://www.chubby-secrets.com/all-internal/
http://www.chubby-secrets.com/all-interracial/
http://www.chubby-secrets.com/ass-traffic/
http://www.chubby-secrets.com/awesome-interracial/
http://www.chubby-secrets.com/cum-covered-glasses/
http://www.chubby-secrets.com/ebony-candy/
http://www.chubby-secrets.com/ebony-knights/
http://www.chubby-secrets.com/fucking-machines/
http://www.chubby-secrets.com/give-me-pink/
http://www.chubby-secrets.com/hogtied/
http://www.chubby-secrets.com/indian-dream-girl/
http://www.chubby-secrets.com/just-over-eighteen/
http://www.chubby-secrets.com/lesbian-sex-city/
http://www.chubby-secrets.com/mature-temptations/
http://www.chubby-secrets.com/movie-flux/
http://www.chubby-secrets.com/petite-stars/
http://www.chubby-secrets.com/rap-video-auditions/
http://www.chubby-secrets.com/sperm-swap/
http://www.chubby-secrets.com/supreme-cock/
http://www.chubby-secrets.com/the-mature-source/
http://www.chubby-secrets.com/totally-amateurs/
http://www.chubbysecrets.net/
http://www.chubbysecrets.net/all-internal/
http://www.chubbysecrets.net/always-amateur/
http://www.chubbysecrets.net/ass-traffic/
http://www.chubbysecrets.net/awesome-interracial/
http://www.chubbysecrets.net/cum-covered-glasses/
http://www.chubbysecrets.net/ebony-candy/
http://www.chubbysecrets.net/ebony-knights/
http://www.chubbysecrets.net/facial-land/
http://www.chubbysecrets.net/fucking-machines/
http://www.chubbysecrets.net/give-me-pink/
http://www.chubbysecrets.net/hogtied/
http://www.chubbysecrets.net/indian-dream-girl/
http://www.chubbysecrets.net/just-over-eighteen/
http://www.chubbysecrets.net/lesbian-sex-city/
http://www.chubbysecrets.net/mandys-diary/
http://www.chubbysecrets.net/mature-temptations/
http://www.chubbysecrets.net/movie-flux/
http://www.chubbysecrets.net/petite-stars/
http://www.chubbysecrets.net/real-big-nudes/
http://www.chubbysecrets.net/sperm-swap/
http://www.chubbysecrets.net/supreme-cock/
http://www.chubbysecrets.net/the-mature-source/
http://www.chubbysecrets.net/totally-amateurs/
http://www.chubbysecrets.org/
http://www.chubbysecrets.org/all-internal/
http://www.chubbysecrets.org/always-amateur/
http://www.chubbysecrets.org/ass-traffic/
http://www.chubbysecrets.org/awesome-interracial/
http://www.chubbysecrets.org/cum-covered-glasses/
http://www.chubbysecrets.org/ebony-candy/
http://www.chubbysecrets.org/facial-land/
http://www.chubbysecrets.org/fucking-machines/
http://www.chubbysecrets.org/give-me-pink/
http://www.chubbysecrets.org/hogtied/
http://www.chubbysecrets.org/interracial-retreat/
http://www.chubbysecrets.org/just-over-eighteen/
http://www.chubbysecrets.org/lesbian-sex-city/
http://www.chubbysecrets.org/mature-temptations/
http://www.chubbysecrets.org/movie-flux/
http://www.chubbysecrets.org/petite-stars/
http://www.chubbysecrets.org/real-big-nudes/
http://www.chubbysecrets.org/sperm-swap/
http://www.chubbysecrets.org/supreme-cock/
http://www.chubbysecrets.org/the-mature-source/
http://www.chubbysecrets.org/totally-amateurs/
http://www.lesbian-from-heaven.com/
http://www.lesbian-from-heaven.com/all-internal/
http://www.lesbian-from-heaven.com/always-amateur/
http://www.lesbian-from-heaven.com/ass-traffic/
http://www.lesbian-from-heaven.com/bi-experience/
http://www.lesbian-from-heaven.com/cum-covered-glasses/
http://www.lesbian-from-heaven.com/ebony-candy/
http://www.lesbian-from-heaven.com/facial-land/
http://www.lesbian-from-heaven.com/give-me-pink/
http://www.lesbian-from-heaven.com/hogtied/
http://www.lesbian-from-heaven.com/interracial-retreat/
http://www.lesbian-from-heaven.com/latina-diamonds/
http://www.lesbian-from-heaven.com/lesbian-sistas/
http://www.lesbian-from-heaven.com/mandys-diary/
http://www.lesbian-from-heaven.com/maximum-orgy/
http://www.lesbian-from-heaven.com/naughty-teen-club/
http://www.lesbian-from-heaven.com/porn-movie-outlet/
http://www.lesbian-from-heaven.com/real-big-nudes/
http://www.lesbian-from-heaven.com/sperm-swap/
http://www.lesbian-from-heaven.com/supreme-hardcore/
http://www.lesbian-from-heaven.com/totally-amateurs/
http://www.lesbian-from-heaven.com/we-like-it-black/
http://www.lesbianfromheaven.net/
http://www.lesbianfromheaven.net/all-internal/
http://www.lesbianfromheaven.net/always-amateur/
http://www.lesbianfromheaven.net/ass-traffic/
http://www.lesbianfromheaven.net/bi-experience/
http://www.lesbianfromheaven.net/cum-covered-glasses/
http://www.lesbianfromheaven.net/download-pass/
http://www.lesbianfromheaven.net/ebony-candy/
http://www.lesbianfromheaven.net/facial-land/
http://www.lesbianfromheaven.net/give-me-pink/
http://www.lesbianfromheaven.net/hogtied/
http://www.lesbianfromheaven.net/interracial-retreat/
http://www.lesbianfromheaven.net/latina-diamonds/
http://www.lesbianfromheaven.net/lesbian-sistas/
http://www.lesbianfromheaven.net/mandys-diary/
http://www.lesbianfromheaven.net/maximum-orgy/
http://www.lesbianfromheaven.net/naughty-teen-club/
http://www.lesbianfromheaven.net/porn-movie-outlet/
http://www.lesbianfromheaven.net/real-big-nudes/
http://www.lesbianfromheaven.net/sperm-swap/
http://www.lesbianfromheaven.net/supreme-hardcore/
http://www.lesbianfromheaven.org/
http://www.lesbianfromheaven.org/all-internal/
http://www.lesbianfromheaven.org/amateur-idols/
http://www.lesbianfromheaven.org/ass-traffic/
http://www.lesbianfromheaven.org/bi-experience/
http://www.lesbianfromheaven.org/cumshot-circus/
http://www.lesbianfromheaven.org/download-pass/
http://www.lesbianfromheaven.org/ebony-climax/
http://www.lesbianfromheaven.org/gay-dream-boys/
http://www.lesbianfromheaven.org/give-me-pink/
http://www.lesbianfromheaven.org/hogtied/
http://www.lesbianfromheaven.org/interracial-retreat/
http://www.lesbianfromheaven.org/latina-diamonds/
http://www.lesbianfromheaven.org/lesbian-sistas/
http://www.lesbianfromheaven.org/mandys-diary/
http://www.lesbianfromheaven.org/maximum-orgy/
http://www.lesbianfromheaven.org/naughty-teen-club/
http://www.lesbianfromheaven.org/porn-movie-outlet/
http://www.lesbianfromheaven.org/screw-my-sexy-wife/
http://www.lesbianfromheaven.org/sperm-swap/
http://www.lesbianfromheaven.org/tasty-teen-babes/
http://www.lesbianfromheaven.org/tranny-centerfolds/
http://www.maturecaress.biz/
http://www.maturecaress.biz/all-internal/
http://www.maturecaress.biz/amateur-idols/
http://www.maturecaress.biz/ass-traffic/
http://www.maturecaress.biz/bi-experience/
http://www.maturecaress.biz/cumshot-circus/
http://www.maturecaress.biz/download-pass/
http://www.maturecaress.biz/ebony-climax/
http://www.maturecaress.biz/gay-dream-boys/
http://www.maturecaress.biz/give-me-pink/
http://www.maturecaress.biz/jerk-that-cock/
http://www.maturecaress.biz/latina-diamonds/
http://www.maturecaress.biz/lesbian-sistas/
http://www.maturecaress.biz/maximum-orgy/
http://www.maturecaress.biz/naughty-teen-club/
http://www.maturecaress.biz/porn-movie-outlet/
http://www.maturecaress.biz/screw-my-sexy-wife/
http://www.maturecaress.biz/sperm-swap/
http://www.maturecaress.biz/tasty-teen-babes/
http://www.maturecaress.biz/tranny-centerfolds/
http://www.mature-caress.com/
http://www.mature-caress.com/all-internal/
http://www.mature-caress.com/amateur-idols/
http://www.mature-caress.com/ass-traffic/
http://www.mature-caress.com/bi-experience/
http://www.mature-caress.com/cumshot-circus/
http://www.mature-caress.com/download-pass/
http://www.mature-caress.com/gay-dream-boys/
http://www.mature-caress.com/give-me-pink/
http://www.mature-caress.com/jerk-that-cock/
http://www.mature-caress.com/latina-diamonds/
http://www.mature-caress.com/lesbian-sistas/
http://www.mature-caress.com/mega-site-pass/
http://www.mature-caress.com/no-mans-playland/
http://www.mature-caress.com/pornstar-tryouts/
http://www.mature-caress.com/screw-my-sexy-wife/
http://www.mature-caress.com/sperm-swap/
http://www.mature-caress.com/tasty-teen-babes/
http://www.mature-caress.com/tranny-centerfolds/
http://www.maturecaress.org/
http://www.maturecaress.org/all-internal/
http://www.maturecaress.org/amateur-idols/
http://www.maturecaress.org/ass-traffic/
http://www.maturecaress.org/bi-experience/
http://www.maturecaress.org/cumshot-circus/
http://www.maturecaress.org/download-pass/
http://www.maturecaress.org/gay-dream-boys/
http://www.maturecaress.org/give-me-pink/
http://www.maturecaress.org/jerk-that-cock/
http://www.maturecaress.org/latina-diamonds/
http://www.maturecaress.org/lesbian-sistas/
http://www.maturecaress.org/mega-site-pass/
http://www.maturecaress.org/no-mans-playland/
http://www.maturecaress.org/pornstar-tryouts/
http://www.maturecaress.org/screw-my-sexy-wife/
http://www.maturecaress.org/sperm-swap/
http://www.maturecaress.org/tasty-teen-babes/
http://www.maturecaress.org/tranny-centerfolds/
http://www.outrageousgrannies.biz/
http://www.outrageousgrannies.biz/all-internal/
http://www.outrageousgrannies.biz/anal-intensity/
http://www.outrageousgrannies.biz/ass-traffic/
http://www.outrageousgrannies.biz/bi-experience/
http://www.outrageousgrannies.biz/cum-thirsty/
http://www.outrageousgrannies.biz/download-pass/
http://www.outrageousgrannies.biz/give-me-pink/
http://www.outrageousgrannies.biz/got-pornstars/
http://www.outrageousgrannies.biz/jerk-that-cock/
http://www.outrageousgrannies.biz/latina-princesses/
http://www.outrageousgrannies.biz/lesbian-suite/
http://www.outrageousgrannies.biz/mega-site-pass/
http://www.outrageousgrannies.biz/no-mans-playland/
http://www.outrageousgrannies.biz/pornstar-tryouts/
http://www.outrageousgrannies.biz/screw-my-sexy-wife/
http://www.outrageousgrannies.biz/sperm-swap/
http://www.outrageousgrannies.biz/teen-blowjob-auditions/
http://www.outrageousgrannies.biz/tranny-pursuit/
http://www.outrageous-grannies.com/
http://www.outrageous-grannies.com/all-internal/
http://www.outrageous-grannies.com/anal-intensity/
http://www.outrageous-grannies.com/ass-traffic/
http://www.outrageous-grannies.com/black-cock-party/
http://www.outrageous-grannies.com/cum-thirsty/
http://www.outrageous-grannies.com/download-pass/
http://www.outrageous-grannies.com/ebony-climax/
http://www.outrageous-grannies.com/give-me-pink/
http://www.outrageous-grannies.com/got-pornstars/
http://www.outrageous-grannies.com/jerk-that-cock/
http://www.outrageous-grannies.com/latina-princesses/
http://www.outrageous-grannies.com/lesbian-suite/
http://www.outrageous-grannies.com/mega-site-pass/
http://www.outrageous-grannies.com/no-mans-playland/
http://www.outrageous-grannies.com/pornstar-tryouts/
http://www.outrageous-grannies.com/screw-my-sexy-wife/
http://www.outrageous-grannies.com/sperm-swap/
http://www.outrageous-grannies.com/teen-blowjob-auditions/
http://www.outrageous-grannies.com/tranny-pursuit/
http://www.outrageousgrannies.org/
http://www.outrageousgrannies.org/all-internal/
http://www.outrageousgrannies.org/anal-intensity/
http://www.outrageousgrannies.org/ass-traffic/
http://www.outrageousgrannies.org/black-cock-party/
http://www.outrageousgrannies.org/cum-thirsty/
http://www.outrageousgrannies.org/download-pass/
http://www.outrageousgrannies.org/ebony-climax/
http://www.outrageousgrannies.org/give-me-pink/
http://www.outrageousgrannies.org/got-pornstars/
http://www.outrageousgrannies.org/jerk-that-cock/
http://www.outrageousgrannies.org/latina-princesses/
http://www.outrageousgrannies.org/lesbian-suite/
http://www.outrageousgrannies.org/mega-site-pass/
http://www.outrageousgrannies.org/no-mans-playland/
http://www.outrageousgrannies.org/pornstar-tryouts/
http://www.outrageousgrannies.org/sexy-and-petite/
http://www.outrageousgrannies.org/sperm-swap/
http://www.outrageousgrannies.org/teen-blowjob-auditions/
http://www.outrageousgrannies.org/tranny-pursuit/
http://www.tranny-extasy.com/
http://www.tranny-extasy.com/all-internal/
http://www.tranny-extasy.com/anal-intensity/
http://www.tranny-extasy.com/ass-traffic/
http://www.tranny-extasy.com/black-cock-party/
http://www.tranny-extasy.com/cum-thirsty/
http://www.tranny-extasy.com/download-pass/
http://www.tranny-extasy.com/ebony-dymes/
http://www.tranny-extasy.com/give-me-pink/
http://www.tranny-extasy.com/got-pornstars/
http://www.tranny-extasy.com/just-adult-movies/
http://www.tranny-extasy.com/latina-princesses/
http://www.tranny-extasy.com/lesbian-suite/
http://www.tranny-extasy.com/mega-site-pass/
http://www.tranny-extasy.com/no-mans-playland/
http://www.tranny-extasy.com/pornstar-tryouts/
http://www.tranny-extasy.com/sexy-and-petite/
http://www.tranny-extasy.com/sperm-swap/
http://www.tranny-extasy.com/teen-blowjob-auditions/
http://www.tranny-extasy.com/tranny-pursuit/
http://www.trannyextasy.net/
http://www.trannyextasy.net/all-internal/
http://www.trannyextasy.net/anal-starlets/
http://www.trannyextasy.net/ass-traffic/
http://www.trannyextasy.net/black-cock-party/
http://www.trannyextasy.net/download-pass/
http://www.trannyextasy.net/easy-elders/
http://www.trannyextasy.net/ebony-dymes/
http://www.trannyextasy.net/give-me-pink/
http://www.trannyextasy.net/hot-gay-porno/
http://www.trannyextasy.net/just-adult-movies/
http://www.trannyextasy.net/latin-exposure/
http://www.trannyextasy.net/lesbo-trick/
http://www.trannyextasy.net/melon-hunter/
http://www.trannyextasy.net/now-eighteen/
http://www.trannyextasy.net/sexy-and-petite/
http://www.trannyextasy.net/sperm-swap/
http://www.trannyextasy.net/teen-rider/
http://www.trannyextasy.net/tranny-realm/
http://www.trannyextasy.org/
http://www.trannyextasy.org/all-internal/
http://www.trannyextasy.org/anal-starlets/
http://www.trannyextasy.org/ass-traffic/
http://www.trannyextasy.org/blowjob-junkie/
http://www.trannyextasy.org/download-pass/
http://www.trannyextasy.org/easy-elders/
http://www.trannyextasy.org/ebony-dymes/
http://www.trannyextasy.org/give-me-pink/
http://www.trannyextasy.org/hot-gay-porno/

I agree with you .
http://www.gugu.pl/ wyszukiwarka cenowa
http://www.agdrtv.com/, wow ale nie waw
http://www.agdrtv.com/notebooki/ , camisony nexoo
http://www.lg.agdrtv.com/ , który nie ten lienergee
http://www.toshiba.agdrtv.com/ laptop ale ktomenistecoon
http://www.sony.agdrtv.com/ , a gdzie nim
http://www.samsung.agdrtv.com/ , tam ale nie tu
http://www.siemens.agdrtv.com/ niemiecka marka lae takimotoe
http://www.panasonic.agdrtv.com/ , kiedy kolwiek
http://www.agdrtv.com/kamery_cyfrowe/ , sony whirlpool
http://www.gugu.pl/5/ wózki dziecięce
http://www.agdrtv.com/telewizory_lcd/ , telewizory plazmowe jvc
http://www.agdrtv.com/telewizory_plazmowe/ , hoover pralki
http://www.agdrtv.com/pralki/ , zmywarki promocje
http://www.agdrtv.com/lodowki/ , kuchnie amica
http://www.hp.agdrtv.com/ , a gdzie nim
http://www.eeeby.pl/ wyszukiwarka cenowa
http://www.camcoo.com/ lcd dvd i inne
http://www.gugu.pl/8/ dla dziecka foteliki
http://www.kancelaria.prawna.info/ oki doki mocki pocki
http://www.gugu.pl/5/ wózki dziecięce
http://www.acer.agdrtv.com/ acer notebooki
http://www.fujitsu-siemens.agdrtv.com/ sklep fujitsu siemens laptopy
http://www.gugu.pl/12/ łóżeczka dla dzieci
http://www.whirlpool.agdrtv.com/ pralki i piekarniki whirlpool
http://www.camcoo.net/ camcoo katalogo stonico