ELOQUENT!!!

there is too much chaos caused by and, at the same time, propelled by too much data. those who want change are so awake and atuned to the need, anything that sows doubt is flack and interferes with effective judgement leading to fear and uncertainty. at this point, we just have to 'let go and let god' while continuing to work for real change.

thank you for c-span, i mean, astroworld, sally.

Molly Ivans - Forget Bush!

http://www.workingforchange.com/printitem.cfm?itemid=17635

I think the destruction is occuring now.When Pluto
hits 20 degrees the reconstruction will begin.
The uranus neptune mutual reception is keeping us
confused for good reason. The lies are not being
believed as much as it appears.
And finally, all this Virgo is keeping us from
seeing the big picture...the polls, the speeches,
the tactics,the candidates,...not important.
As good astrologers you know that when Jupiter
enters Libra the march toward justice will begin.

And when does Jupiter enter Libra???

There are many moments (while reading this site and your articles in particular Sally) that i feel as though i'm participating in some cosmic play. Lately, my thoughts have centered on debunking my own myths, specifically those taught (planted by parents, media, teachers, et al) then tended by myself -- like some weedy, barren garden.

Our collective consciousness has -- in many ways -- grown like the garden mentioned above. We accept far too many myths as truth in part because they are continually perpetuated.

We continue to separate ourselves from one another by thought alone! This simple truth has been muddied with qualifiers that have nothing to do with the fact that we are connected one to another and to the environment.

Will we be shown another truth(s) only to construct qualifers around it? I suspect "we" will. And, so on until a truth reveals itself that is so harsh we must concede that we ARE all connected.

Jason. . .Jupiter enters Libra on September 25.

karen

This is the first time I've braved posting here, so please bear with me. ;)

Although I don't consider myself a good enough astrologer to try to call the election (who is?), I have studied journalism and politics for quite some time. It is true that the so-called unbiased media (SCUM) are dancing to the tune of their corporate masters and propping up shrub, the pendulum may be swinging in the other direction.

The saga of shrub's days in the Texas Air National Guard, with all its dreadful implications for the pResident, has finally reached critical mass. The documents the White House so carelessly dumped on the media on a Friday afternoon in February contained more information than shrub wanted exposed. It confirmed that Bush did not fulfill his National Guard obligations and should by rights have either been drafted, court-martialed or dishonorably discharged. The media have been forced to report this, despite their inherent bias.

In addition, Kitty Kelley has penned an explosive unauthorized biography of the Bushes, called The Family. The book will detail allegations that shrub used cocaine at Camp David during his father's presidency; that he forced a girlfriend (possibly only 15!) to abort his baby in 1970; that he had bisexual liaisons while in the Guard; and many other salacious tales. The media, greedy as it is for celebrity gossip and viewers will give Kelley plenty of play next week. The bushies have already telegraphed their utter terror at the prospect of 600,000 copies of that book flying off the shelves.

For good measure, investigative reporter Seymour Hersh, who helped uncover the Abu Ghraib scandal, has a book about it coming out next week. Hersh has already alluded to sordid and shameful aspects of the scandal that the US press has suppressed: He has video of soldiers raping and torturing children, some as young as 10, before the eyes of their anguished parents. (The press in Europe has already examined these allegations, while our own SCUM has refused to even mention the most horrific incidents.) Hersh will make the case that Bush and his cronies -- Cheney, Rumsfeld, Ashcroft, Rice, et alia -- knowingly established a prison system in which systematic torture would be standard operating procedure. Public disgust over the graphic details of which Hersh has already hinted must inevitably impact shrub's (shrinking) stature with the voters. Once the details are fully appreciated, we may see the unprecedented spectacle of a US president and most of his cabinet indicted for war crimes. Even if shrub is defeated at the polls, he could face an international tribunal because as head of state, he is responsible for the atrocities.

The truth has a way of coming out, even when cuttthroats killers and thieves are struggling to repress it. These people are wannabe-dictators, but this is still a democracy. Frankly, I think they've bitten off much more than they can chew.

Astrologically speaking, I think shrub is getting hit pretty well by Mars right now. Mars and the Sun square Bush's Uranus, coinciding with explosive (Uranus) revelations about his National Guard record during the Vietnam War (Mars). Is it any wonder that it is his military record that is hamstringing him now?

Tying in to that, Pluto is exactly (by degree) opposite shrub's Uranus right now. This transit not only reinforces the Mars/Sun hit, but in my opinion makes the damage to Bush's reputation deep and permanent. (Nothing Pluto brings about is going to be superficial and transitory!) With Pluto also nearing an opposition with the US natal Mars, the public is now focused upon military matters, perhaps more deeply than Bush and his cronies would like to admit. While it may not be readily apparent to pollsters focused upon snapshots of the electorate’s frame of mind, learning how shrub shirked his Guard commitment will likely anger (Pluto/Mars) voters. This will be particularly troubling to many, as the National Guard now bears a major part of the burden in the Iraq occupation, its members dying and being maimed daily. The knowledge that our commander-in-chief sent these men and women to fight and die in an illegitimate war, after dishonoring his own guard commitment, will doubtless call into question his fitness to lead the country.

The ironic thing about this controversy is that shrub, a documented deserter, has allowed his surrogates to attack the military record of genuine war hero Kerry. They chose this fight, but chances are they won’t win it. (The old saw about bringing a knife to a gunfight occurs to me, for some reason.)

Though I said above that I can’t make any prediction about the outcome of the race, I do know one thing: Win or lose, Bush will end up severely damaged on November 3rd. Either he will lose and slink off to private life, hoping against hope that war crimes and federal charges aren’t in his future, or he will go on to a second term as a hobbled lame duck awaiting an almost inevitable impeachment (Saturn in Leo and Uranus in Pisces cutting through his chart). I would far prefer the former outcome, of course.

Those concerned about shrub’s poll numbers should visit the Donkey Rising Weblog. The gent who writes it deconstructs the polls and shows their inherent bias towards Bush. It’s quite enlightening.

I’m sorry for the long stream-of-consciousness post. Hopefully I haven’t tried your patience too much. ;)

I believe that transiting Saturn goes on Bush's natal Saturn on September 25 also...sweet timing...

http://www.democrats.org/action/200409090002.html?psc=demnews

Sign this petition to help pressure BUSH to answer questions about his National Guard "service"

Welcome to the site Xeno, we are very happy to have you. Absolutely books are coming out right and left on Bush and have been doing so for quite some time. His aspects have not been good for quite some time, and there have been scandal, impeachable scandal, one after another and yet he continues to survive. The astrologers on this site have accurately identified the scandal, a plethora of aspects leading to a Bush fall, and it doesn't happen, so there is a frustration with trusting an accurate prediction not of events but of outcome. In the 2000 Election the greater majority of astrologers I know (including myself) predicted that Gore would win, and time has proven that he did win, but Gore is not in the White House and that is the basic problem now, not who will win but trying to look beyond to who will sit in the White House and that's where it all gets muddy.

While Libra does bring balance, it also brings a desire to see both sides and potential for more polarization, although, all things being equal the Libra Ingress of Jupiter, Mars, the Sun will find people a little more will to listen and hear Kerry as Libra will set up a trine to his Gemini and Sextile to his Sagittarius Sun and Asc. it also moves into Bush 3rd house of communications and conj. his Libra stellium. Jupiter in the 3rd house provides protection to the house resident, in this case Mr. Bush.

Sally, sobering article. Thanks.

Xeno, welcome.

Regarding the upcoming Mars/Pluto square and the New Moon line up of Moon/Sun/Mars at 22 Virgo, it apparently hits my Pluto at 23 Virgo. Of course I checked all the charts of my friends and loved ones, making sure they looked "clear" in the 19 to 23 degrees of the Mutable Signs (had to figure out what the Mutables were first ... I did) and found my sister's Moon at 19Pis04 being affected. I then thought to check myself and BAM! Pluto at 23 Virgo as part of a Second House Stellium including Part of Fortune (26Vir53), South Node (00Lib14), Jupiter (01Lib15) and Uranus (02Lib03) all in Opposition to my Aries Sun, North Node and Chiron. Hmmmmmmm ... don't know what any of that means, but I'm sure I'll survive somehow. LOL Thank goodness I live in NYC and don't have to drive anywhere!

Very good article, Sally. And wonderful comment by Xeno above! I wish I was that good a beginning astrologer. :-) Great work everyone.

There is also the possibility that the jupiter in Mr. Bush's third house will inflate his small-mindedness and pettiness...the jupiter rising to kerry's midheaven should increase his status in the public's perception, and the USA saturn in Libra in the10th house makes this quite important.

Lilith. Along with Pluto, she can be expected to illuminate the truth, shatter delusions and names things as they are. It can be terrifying for people to be stripped of illusions and false pretenses. The lies we tell ourselves are the hardest things we will ever have to face.

She forces us to look at ourselves with complete, naked and utter honesty whether it be a person, country or government, and she will make us demand the truth of a situation. She is ruthless in destroying any of our structures that are not an expression of our true identity or that are based on deception or disrespect.

Substituting at the library yesterday, I began the day frustrated at my inability to impact a smug, financially comfy, Repug retiree, who believes that what is wrong with America today is all the fault of the trial lawyers!!!!! Not the Insurance companies!
Depression deepened when I checked out Molly Ivan's " Bushwacked", to one of the local "choir members", who attends our Weds Dem. breakfast planning meeting, faithfully; & realized that only my Democratic activist friends were, reading the book! We all transitioned from Deaniacs to ABBG's working to get out the vote etc. ( At the Weds. Edwards
Rally in Bangor; we vounteered & were put on crowd control duty!!)
Then at the end of the day a cheery stranger asked assistance in the library computer room to search for Aroostic Co. potato farms that were hiring. He did get several phone numbers to call; then requested the name & phone number of a local preacher. He was hoping to get a meal.........................
I couldn't find the name of our local newcomer preacher, ( female) in the book . rejected in my mind the local "faith-based" food pantry as they have the most disgusting Repug, attitudes I've encountered. And they give, out of date food!
So I called our work for Peace Group who have just started a soup kitchen...........and Brien told me they would reimburse me for $10. if I had it to give him.
( My family situation still has me strapped for some time to come)
Well He was very grateful...& talkative...........
& shared with me; that he was a reformed drinker from KY, and he gave me 2 toll free numbers for 24 hour prayers. The 2nd number was to Jerry Fallwelll!!!!!!!
Of course I said I would NOT CALL J F, and siezed the opening to deliver my political message.
No he doesn't vote; has never voted, claimed he doesn't know how! But he promised he would get help from a group in Aroostic Co. to show him how to go about it. Agreed that Bush needs to go.
Then he started talking about Bush.....the rumors, common knowledge to Southern Barflys, about his running drugs from Mexico as Gov of Texas, his heavy drinking and drug use!!!!!!
Now you could postulate that out of gratitude; he was saying what he thought I wanted to hear..........................................................
But , the encounter had the effect of rattling my preconcieved notions ( open minded moi!)
How Neptunian; that Bush's failings are common knowledge to those who don't vote, and how many worlds separated him, from the Repug woman earlier.
How many worlds separated him form my world!!!!!
T Neptune sits on my n Lillith, and is squaring my sun & moon!. T Lillith is in my first house about to conjunct my p sun @ 15 cancer!
PQOP

Wonderful thought provoking article, Sally and wonderful comments as well. Welcome Xeno and thank you for the so called unbiased media = SCUM reference. A mercury in Aries with a Sag ASC gets so frustrated at the lack of truth. I just want the truth. If the truth supported GWB then so be it. But it doesn't seem to do so. Although there are serious questions now on the validity of the CBS Killian documents, see http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/
this issue distracts from the evidence in the documents released by the White House which still shows times missing from Bush's service.

Sigh, Viet Nam. I long felt that it had kept this country out of war, but War wins, once enough forgetfulness takes hold. A War that killed approx 60,000 overseas and then another 60,000 back home. That the issues surrounding Viet Nam are not resolved, is not surprising.

I'd been thinking that this coming new moon might be especially relevant to those born in the mid 60's or the issues born thru events during that time, as that is when the Pluto/Uranus conjunction took place roughly at 15 - 20 deg Virgo in 1965-66 and now pluto is square.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/091104Y.shtml

Dumbest. Election. Ever.
By William Rivers Pitt
t r u t h o u t | Perspective

Friday 10 September 2004

"I hate television. I hate it as much as peanuts. But I can't stop eating peanuts."
- Orson Welles
The clearest indication that the country is coming out from under the massive psychological concussion of September 11 is the fact that we are all enduring the stupidest Presidential election season in recent memory. If we were all still walking around in the cat-like state of readiness we operated under for at least a year after the attacks, we wouldn't put up with this garbage.

more.....

Sally, thanks for yet another thought-provoking article. In my opinion, the greatest compliment we can give an astrologer is to be mindful of their warnings and suggestions and actually dodge the boulders as we head downstream.

In my own Vedic horoscope for the month (based on my moon sign, not my sun sign) it gives plenty of warnings about a rocky September.

I'm sorry we will be entering a dangerous phase this month. I thought about the short tempers and fistfights breaking out in Florida in the wake of hurricane Frances.

I'm sticking to my theory that the political 3-ring circus we are seeing lately is "burlesque" entertainment, meant for the lowest common denominator. Jerry Springer comes to mind.

Al Gore called Cheney's comment "sleazy". I call it a threat. It wasn't even subtle. Cheney basically said that if we don't vote Bush-Cheney in for another 4 years, we are going to get hit with a terrorist attack.

I believe he means what he says.

The Hindus say that people who are steered completely by their egos are like a horse galloping down the road, with its reins hanging by its sides. We're like a ship without a rudder.

Wasn't it Maya delMar who said that George Bush "has a lot of Jupiter in his chart" that has afforded him a great deal of protection? I am hazy on the rest of the statement but I believe she said this would continue through election time. I know astrologers disagree and weight various aspects differently but this one has stuck in my head for quite awhile because of the amount of bullets this man has been able to dodge as well as the rise in poll numbers recently in spite of all the bad news that has surrounded him.

Also, was it Geneva Clarke who said that Kerry would be undone by his Mercury? Truly now, can we all agree that this man can't seem to make a simple declarative statement? I don't know enough to read an astrological chart but he does give the appearance of someone who has a Mercury/Neptune issue going on.....lost in nuance and what if's. Somebody better sit him down soon and give him the skinny on the Amerian public. We like it fast, direct and to the point....nuance is for staff meetings not election campaigns!

Anyway, thanks for the article Sally. I share your frustrations. At the end of the day the most we can do is cast our one vote and hope for the best. Whatever happens life will go on....we may not care for it's direction but it will continue.

I am fortunate. Astroworld is of such high quality, and I found it during a time that truly needs to be addressed by the best minds. The astrologers AND the commenters are some of the best minds I have found on the internet. It has saved me so much distress, not because the answers are just what I want to hear, but because when I come here I feel I am actually informed, and warned. It helps prepare me for the onslaught of outrages that seem to just keep coming.

Sally your bottom line expression of what you see in astrology is a rare gift, and I just love it! Thanks AGAIN for an eloquent piece of interpretation of these times. I am grateful to you for your work and your caring for people. (hug)

Welcome Xeno,!

Pat Oliphant cartoon on my Yahoo page this moring:

An enormous steer is in the background, looking down on 2 emaciated Indian men with laptops in front of them, sitting on a poor and dilapidated anonymous Indian city street....the main guy is talking on the phone:
"Hi, this is Ralph with Amalgamated Polling. Assuming job loss is not a factor, if the election was held today, who would you vote for?"

Is there another Teresa on this board? I'm the one that's been posting for the past several months but I didn't post the two posts at the top of this thread. If there is another, we will have to further identify ourselves.

The mighty fine Mark Morford

"...Polls are the genital warts of election year"... http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2004/09/10/notes091004.DTL&nl=fix

Jonathan, I checked the aspects of people I know....my ex, with Mars 21 Sag. My son in law with Uranus 23 Virgo and Pluto at 19 Virgo which is of course, generational....(He is a super Virgo with 5 planets in Virgo, Sun, Merc, Venus, Pluto, Uranus, b. 1967)

A friend with Moon at 17 Sag...she's gone thru that Pluto thing. I sent some warnings out....my granddaughter is 3 years old and has a later 27 deg. Mars conj Chiron. But she also has the 4 deg. square from Uranus to her Sun Sat conj. at 4 Gemini. Major upset this week at her preschool....she was kept in the class with the incoming 2 year old crybabies while her other classmates were sent into the class together which is more advanced. Now she doesn't want to go to school....and the teachers said it was just the way it was, it wasn't planned! Ha.....

Sally, really....your writing just gets more and more focused....very terrific. Judi

Read the article on line:
The Hidden History of CIA Torture:
America's Road to Abu Ghraib
By Alfred W. McCoy

"...For the last 200 years, humanist intellectuals from Voltaire to members of Amnesty International have led a sustained campaign against the horrors of state-sponsored cruelty, culminating in the United Nation's 1985 Convention Against Torture, ratified by the Clinton administration in 1994.

Then came 9/11. When the Twin Towers collapsed killing thousands, influential "pro-pain pundits" promptly repudiated those Enlightenment ideals and began publicly discussing whether torture might be an appropriate, even necessary weapon in George Bush's war on terror.

The most persuasive among them, Harvard academic Alan M. Dershowitz, advocated giving courts the right to issue "torture warrants," ensuring that needed information could be prized from unwilling Arab subjects with steel needles. .."

http://www.tomdispatch.com/index.mhtml?emx=x&pid=1795

Pat....thanks for the barfly info. I would imagine an awful lot of people in TX know the story, also....

I look forward to all the new posters (even if some are old lurkers) checking in....it is time, in MHO, to open up the 5th and 6th chakras to express what our own spirits want to express...regardless of expertise in astrology or not. It is a little like excercise....the more we do it, the easier it becomes.

Last night I attended the first of several once a month meetings with Connie Grauds (in San Rafael, CA), who is a "white shamana"....we are learning herbal/jungle medicine. At the end she gave an intention in the form of a prayer...."may the next month bring more of Thee and less of Me"......

It is time, it is time, for that....as Lilith presides over this process of shattering our illusions, bringing brutal truth, speaking those words allows us to see a larger picture of our world as a whole.

Thank you Sally!!!!

PAUL KRUGMAN-IT'S THE DISHONESTY THING, STUPID!

THE DISHONESTY THING
By PAUL KRUGMAN

It's the dishonesty, stupid. The real issue in the National Guard story isn't what George W. Bush did three decades ago. It's the recent pattern of lies: his assertions that he fulfilled his obligations when he obviously didn't, the White House's repeated claims that it had released all of the relevant documents when it hadn't.

It's the same pattern of dishonesty, this time involving personal matters that the public can easily understand, that some of us have long seen on policy issues, from global warming to the war in Iraq. On budget matters, which is where I came in, serious analysts now take administration dishonesty for granted.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/10/opinion/10krugman.html?hp

Anne,
Maya does speak of Jupiter for September and its movement into Libra late in the month... she also speaks to a few other planets lining up in this sign of justice... and the 'lighting' up of John Kerry's Midheaven... Jupiter is often seen as a benefic, but it also expands the energy of those planets it merges with and it very often brings JUSTICE... following your comments I went back and re-read Maya for September... you might consider doing the same as it sure lifted my spirit...

As for nuances, I myself dig 'em... too bad Dubya can't do 'em... maybe we wouldn't be in the mess we are in in Iraq now if he were able to do a tiny bit of nuance... I much prefer nuance and truth to the lies coming from the Bush camp the last three years...

Namaste

lol. thanks you guys I checked all my near and dear ones for that dreaded 19 degrees of sagittarius. We are smitten with a lot of sag. stuff, my hubby and i are both triple sag..
fortunately the evil 19 degrees is not in any
of our natal charts anyway..
saved again.
phew.
mimi

Major article, Sally! I want to join with others in praise of your objectivity, particularly when we know how deeply you love this country and want it to move forward to a more peaceful, egalitarian state.

And these words, supposedly the last he spoke before he dropped his body, from the Buddha:

"All things in this world are subject to constant change. Be mindful, and strive on."

This from DailyKos who borrowed from Atrios who... you get the point...

Funny, but poignantly accurate...

http://www.dailykos.com/images/user/3/jesusbush.jpg

CNN wants to know if you think the latest documents about Smirky's guard history are forgeries or not. Go vote:

http://www.cnn.com/

Are we over the edge yet? Are we in the deep end now? Have we turned the corner into the tunnel with no light at the end?

Madness! Just madness!

shrub is not going after osama, since he has struck a deal with bin laden family, so osama capture will not be an Oct.surprise.The two evil twins rowe and shrub will stoop down low to do everything else like fudging economic numbers for the next 2 months to make it look rosy for both the Main and wall streets(like today saying our trade deficit shrank and infaltion is near zero, when in reality barrel of oil has shot upto $45 from a high of $300.Don't be surprised if next month numbers say 300,000 jobs created and unemployment is down to 5%. Evil twins are going to manufacture numbers to steal you know what. Recent wool/sand throwing over people's eyes is
sudden announcement by powell that there is genocide in sudan-this is to get some black / minority votes in Nov. Evil tricks are coming our way for sure in the next 2 months, WATCH OUT!shrub
is not all that bungling but on the other hand a very calculated and deliberate devil who purposely
distracted the nation to Iraq from Afghanistan so
as NOT to capture osama to keep up his promise with bin laden family whom he aided and abetted to
flee from here after 9-11.

hmmm...jupiter in libra, 9/25, expansive search for justice, thanks for the info.

*welcome to aw xeno*. like your posts. when you get a chance, could you please explain your 'paradox of motion.' i've been troubled with that one for about 30 years.

this site is great. i appologize for my 'necromancy' remark of a few days ago (did so on the last thread just as it closed down). if you want to read the full apology, there is the added bonus of the words to James Brown's classic: "Living in America."

enjoy!

Who's polluting your community? Just type in your ZIP in the box on the right-hand side.

http://www.scorecard.org/

Ahhh Jo: I do believe you are the metaphoric pit bull that stations itself at the end of the driveway leading into this forum scaring away any naysayers who may dare to enter. I get your drift however....i will reread Maya's articles. Unfortunately we cannot reread Geneva's article as her site has been down for quite some time now.

Once again you have scared me away. I always feel like the unwanted ants at the picnic by the time I am done digesting your comments.

I will go back into lurking mode again. I will leave the floor to those who you agree with. Can't take those pointed remarks of yours anymore.

BTW: Believe me, I prefer Kerry....I just happen to remember the not so favorable things written about him. My bad!

19 Sagittarius - my youngest son was born with the Moon and M.C. both at 19 Sagittarius. They square Lilith at 19 Pisces in the first, as well as 7th house Uranus and Pluto at 18 and 20 Virgo respectively. His 7th house Sun at 27 Virgo opposes Saturn at 26 Pisces; Venus at 14 Virgo is also in the mix. It's one hell of a chart, the only relief coming from Jupiter at 28 Cancer. Life hasn't been easy for him - ADD for starters - but so far he's made it. I'm nervous about the next few weeks - and, instinctively, so is he. He called me yesterday to ask if he was out from under it yet. We have a long talk coming. About his life and also about the election. From his questions and comments he is obviously listening to Rush.

I watched Pluto do a number on anyone with a planet in Scorpio, and had figured it would be fairly benign in Sag. I'm particularly concerned about the Mars-Pluto conjunction in the eighth in the inauguration chart, right on top of Kerry's Sun/Moon/Saturn configuration. Has anyone commented on this, and if so what?

BTW, Neptune is transiting my Sun and I'm realizing that I got off my spiritual track 30 years ago, and it's way past time to get back on.

from Democrats.com Bob Fertig is following the shrub AWOL story:

__AWOL Fraud - at ABC, CNN, and FOX!

Bob Fertik blogs, "While the media is breathlessly trying to prove CBS broadcast fraudulent AWOL memos, three other networks committed fraud this week - yet no one but Salon's Eric Boehlert noticed. All 3 networks gave time to retired Lt. Col. John 'Bill' Calhoun, who claims he saw Bush performing drills in Alabama in the SUMMER of 1972. There's only one problem with Calhoun's story - Bush's OWN records show Bush didn't get credit for any time until October. We don't need typewriter experts to prove that October is not in the SUMMER - making Calhoun's statements an obvious fraud.! Of course it's been 32 years and people's memories fade, so on 2-24-04, Democrats.com submitted a FOIA request for Lt. Calhoun's records, to see if his drill dates overlapped with Bush's (http://democrats.com/display.cfm?id=199). However, in February the White House ordered the Pentagon to reject ALL FOIA requests - so the truth remains a mystery."
http://community.democrats.com/forums/discussions.cfm?forumid=170&topicid=135192

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/9/10/34914/1603

TANG Typewriter Follies; Wingnuts Wrong
by Hunter
Fri Sep 10th, 2004 at 15:37:04 GMT

(From the diaries -- kos)

Against my own better judgment, but because I believe that the more rapidly charges are countered, the better, I spend a goodly portion of the last day researching -- shudder -- typewriters of the '60s and '70s.  As everyone on the planet no doubt knows by now, the hard-right of the freeper contingent -- specifically, LittleGreenFootballs, a site which frequently is cited for eliminationist rhetoric and veiled racism, and PowerLine, a site linked to with admiration by such luminaries as Michelle Malkin and Hugh Hewitt -- discovered that if you used the same typeface, you could make documents that looked almost -- but not exactly -- like the TANG documents discovered by CBS News.  This qualifies as big news, of course, so from those two sites, the story has spread into the mainstream media through the usual channels, most notably Drudge, NRO, etc.

I do not believe there is any truly "new" information here, but I hope to condense it in one easy-to-digest reference.

So here are some point-by-point findings re: the "forgeries".

More....

* Author links wimp factor and war

As the candidates have scrambled to prove their uber-stud bona fides during the summer campaign (bush chain-sawing trees on his ranch! John Kerry windsurfing!), the specter of war has dominated news stories & political discourse (Iraq for bush, Vietnam for Kerry).

War is both a reality & a metaphor. When it comes to decoding [ameriCO] manhood, war's realities--missiles, tank-mounted long-barreled guns, rifles (some with bayonets) & aspects of penetration & domination--suggest metaphors that might have made Freud chuckle [& conscious women gag but delight at the truth-telling!]. ... http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/09/10/EBGS67U4SR1.DTL

CBS News Stands Firm: We here at the Washington Wrap are not crazy about talking about ourselves, but we thought you would be interested in a statement put out by CBS News regarding the controversy over the authenticity of records on President Bush’s National Guard service in Wednesday's "60 Minutes" report.

For the record, CBS News stands by the thoroughness and accuracy of the 60 MINUTES report this Wednesday on President Bush’s service in the Texas Air National Guard. This report was not based solely on recovered documents, but rather on a preponderance of evidence, including documents that were provided by unimpeachable sources, interviews with former Texas National Guard officials and individuals who worked closely back in the early 1970s with Colonel Jerry Killian and were well acquainted with his procedures, his character and his thinking. In addition, the documents are backed up not only by independent handwriting and forensic document experts but by sources familiar with their content. Contrary to some rumors, no internal investigation is underway at CBS News nor is one planned. We have complete confidence in our reporting and will continue to pursue the story.

CBS News Vice President Betsy West concludes, "We are continuing to pursue the story and will report tonight on the CBS Evening News." Stay tuned.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/02/26/politics/main502099.shtml

While I'm in between evacuations from Frances and now possibly Ivan, thought I'd check in.

BLAH! BLAH! BLAH! Why is everyone wasting so much time and energy on Bush's National Guard record. All he has to do is say it all happened before he was "born again", 'cause now he's forgiven and brand new.

Why isn't anyone talking about the bill banning assault weapons that is about to expire on Monday?
HO. HUM. More weapons on the streets.

Sally or other astrologers. How about looking at Florida's chart and letting us know what transits are impacting this Pisces state. What are Uranus and Pluto aspecting to give us three hurricanes within a month. Anybody have the stats?

Lots of fear and anxiety. Lots of people suffering physically and emotionally. Also weary and stressed. So many elderly.

Send lots of light. Lots of purple.

MAY ALL THE FEAR AND ANXIETY BE TRANSFORMED INTO LOVE AND LIGHT AND SENT OUT INTO THE WORLD FOR GOOD.

PEACE

Jo, that Chimp vs Jesus thing was brilliant.

I don’t usually post that much (work, work, work - Saturn in my 10th) but I feel a rant coming on, and it has a name:

Saving Face,
Losing America

It has to do with the only plausible explanation left to why, after so many revelations of corruption that would have rendered a Democratic president not only impeached but catatonic by now, there are still people who will stand at the edge of a protest parade and scream, as if from their very souls, "Four more years!!!" I saw a clip of this during the convention in NYC, and this man screaming, almost hysterical, looked like a scared, pathetic child with nothing more to put behind that "Four more years!!" but a whimper. No meat to it, no solid reasoning, just - hysteria, as though he would somehow disappear if he didn't keep screaming.

Political convictions are so steeped in passion for many or most of us that they become part of “who we are. “ And when someone challenges WHO YOU ARE, it can almost feel like an attempt on your life. Some are more level-headed and dispassionate than I, for sure, but when I read some of the things these neocons say, I feel it in my skeleton. I feel the acid surge in my stomach and I think my eyes roll around really, really fast for a few seconds. I start to shake, and then all the F-bombs drop and my husband takes the dog out for a walk to let me purge. He comes home to an exhausted, bewildered wreck reaching for the tequila. And I'm sure the Repugs react the same way (I know my mommy dearest does) when they hear what the left is saying.

But... what we have here is something else. The emotional torque is the same, but the facts that encompass the debate have made me incredulous at how ANYone can still defend this man. WE all know these things, but maybe some of these other people just need it simplified for them:

To Military People:
There are no WMD. There is no link between Iraq and 9/11.
1000+ Americans are dead. More will die. There is no exit strategy. This war is out of control, and might we add, if Bush gets in again, we WILL have a draft. Got any eligible kids? Think about that.

To Born-Again Christians:
Thou Shalt Not Kill. Love Thy Neighbor. Love Thine Enemy. Give to the poor. Reassess whether you really know Thing One about the deity you profess to worship. You sure as hell don’t represent Him. And I think he might be really heartbroken about that. Thought - the rabid, hateful, condemning faction of the Christian Church *IS* the Anti-Christ. Deal with THAT.

To Fiscal Conservatives:
Bush took us from a record federal surplus to the biggest federal deficit in US history in 2 and a half years. Yes, war is expensive. I will reiterate: no WMD. No link between Iraq and 9/11. But lots of fat govt. contracts to defense contractors, in which the key GOP players are heavily invested. How obvious does this have to be?

To the Elderly:
17% increase in Medicare costs. Astronomical drug costs, and yet Bush is against getting drugs from Canada, never mind forcing US drug manufacturers to lower their prices. Your property taxes have gone up because of Bush’s federal tax cut that didn’t benefit you, but your wealthy neighbors are riding high. State and local budgets have been cut as a result, and you feel it in your property tax bill, among other things. Bush did this. The Republican Congress did this. The people you voted for did this to you. Why do you still believe these people give a rat’s ass what happens to you? They don’t.

To Gun Owners:
What do you think comes next after taking away the peoples’ right to protest?

To People in Denial:
Clarke, O’Neill, Kay and now Graham - all highly respected experts in their fields until they crossed Bush, (and some of them were APPOINTED by Bush and his administration) have all spilled the beans that this war had been planned long before 9/11, that fiscal policy was deliberately written in favor of the wealthy, that there ARE no WMD and no Iraq/9-11 link, and that the Saudi government may well have been funding some of the 9/11 terrorists, but Bush has covered up their involvement to protect them. Read that again. Is your hearing aid turned up? Bush PROTECTS the country that funded the 9/11 terrorists.
In my humble opinion, the reason we are seeing this 50/50 thing, STILL, is not so much that the people on the other side think Bush is a great guy, but that they can’t handle the emotional affront to that part of “who they are” if they are to admit that the man they fought and rooted for so hard in 2000, with all that polarized venom, is actually a man who has brought terrible harm to this country and the world. The emotional charge is so visceral that, for them to even acquiesce to what is now established FACT is too threatening to their very being - like the almost hyperventilating man on the sidelines of the protest. I see this in my mother so clearly. The hate that comes out of her eyes is truly shocking to me whenever I try to calmly point out the above established FACTS. I don’t know how to fight that. It’s almost as though what we have to do is reassure people that having once voted for a man who has turned out to be a horrible president does not make THEM horrible.

To All Bush Supporters:
You voted for him in 2000. It didn’t turn out well at all. It was disasterous. You can make it better now. It was just an error in judgement that can now be rectified by reviewing the FACTS and making a more informed decision. To put this man back in office for another four years, judging by the FACTS we already have, may bring the country to complete ruin. If you love America as much as you say you do, put that love of country ahead of your pride and ego, for God’s sake.

Is saving face worth losing your country?

“Lucy”

Donna, Pluto in Sagittarius would be anything but benign (unfortunately) Sagittarius rules 9th house in a flat chat and that means foreign relations or travels, the justice system, religion, national and international media, global business, big government or federal government, philosophy, and most of all truth all of those things would be sure to suffer under Pluto in Sagittarius. Because Sag is the 1st house of the US it would also represent transformation of the country.

One cannot compare what is happening in a leader's chart or life with their own chart or life because a leader is the receptacle of the collective, ordinary Joe Doe is not. As an example, someone with 19 degrees Sag (18 degrees is a different energy) might lose their job or yell at their kids or significant other or be yelled at and no one knows or cares. That person might even say things that aren't nice or are mean-spirited but who cares. If the leader of a country throws a mean-spirited fit it could start a war, or move the stock market into a depression or something equally terrible. They have a lot more power at their disposal and if they are in a snit and the type to misuse power it affects the world. If you or I misuse power we may ground one of our kids or fire someone or say mean things and that's all and our lives go on.

Florida has Saturn at 13 Aquarius and Neptune is sitting right on top of it plus transiting Saturn inconjunct Florida's natal Neptune, creating lots of wind and rain and problems with voting machines. Mars has just passed an opposition to
the Sun so I would hope Ivan loses steam before
Saturday or Sunday. A massive hurrican occured there in 1926 and at that time Saturn was squaring the natal Neptune. However, hurricanes aside Florida will be having some problems this year, all year particularly around the economy. I have not done progressions for Florida so I don't know how the candidates will fare there but from the natal chart Kerry/Edwards have strong connections to the state.

Sally, thank you for this article.
~D

This email arrived addressed directly to a friend of mine from a friend of his....I am eliminated his name....this was what he wrote going out:

>And if we get saddled with Bushie for four more, we also get the two moronic,
>vodka fueled daughters - giggle, giggle, giggle - and the air head Laura . .
>. "why should we support stem cell research .. we don't even know if it'll
>work!"
>
>That's right Laura, and at one time we didn't know the world was round, that
>man could fly or that penicillin would work either. Guess there's no sense in
>even trying with that set of thoughts.
>
>And Bush compares himself to Harry Truman?

This was written back

Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Everyone seems to think that Laura is such a prize, but let me tell you some inside dope: A friend of mine, a documentary filmmaker, was summoned to the WH to meet Laura. Well, Ann says that being in the same room with Laura was like being in the same room with the devil. Laura gives the evil eye because she does not look anyone eye to eye, is rude, and does not act like a first lady. I pray that Kerry gets in, Phil, but it's beginning to look too close for words. We must pray for a miracle.

Lucy - thanks for the "rant". YOu have put into words what so many of us are feeling too. Where I live I see Bush lawn signs all over our neighborhood - lots of rich people here who could care less about the poor or war - none of their kids have ever seen a uniform. They only want to protect their tax breaks ... some of them laugh at Bush but make up excuses for him, but you know it's all about protecting their wealth and the heck with whatever is going on anywhere else inthe world. Where I live it's either the Jesus factor or the wealth issue ... my Kerry lawn sign has been stolen twice so I've given up. Not feeling particularly hopeful about the outcome of this election, sorry to say. I think the majority of the people "just don't get it" and so it's going to be 4 more years of hell and making more excuses for that Cowboy-wanna be twit. So much of what you said in your "rant" fit into what I see here also - my family are all repubs and you can see they are not happy with a lot of things Bush and the rest of 'em are doing but they will not vote anything else but republican no matter what and they get really hateful if you try and convince them otherwise. They would rather be 'right' than fix the problem .. and those tax breaks are just too sweet to give up.

Anne, I wish you wouldn't go back into 'lurk' mode. As someone with a Neptune/Mercury opposition, I found your Kerry comments very understandable. Actually, since Sally's article above gave me a clue about Black Moon Lil, I am feeling pretty good about my Neptune now. Here, all along I thought it was my Saturn stuff that has me so grounded that sometimes I feel buried. But, with finding out Black Moon Lil is on my natal Neptune to the exact degree, I feel like I have just increased my truth seeking abilities to the max.

It hasn't been an easy road, whose life is? But I never fell for the victim/savior routine, and with mercury ruling my 7th house I never completely understood why. Now it all kind of makes sense. The Kosmic Karmic Komputer is an awesome thing to behold.

The last couple of days I have had to step back and let be. I am no longer emotionally attached to a Kerry victory. I'd like to see one, but if GWB steals it again, well I am trusting in that KKK. GWB inheriting the direct consequences of his actions? Couldn't think of a better guy for the job. Unfortunately I guess he takes the rest of us with him, gag.

Synchronisticlly, I came here first and read Sally's "Scorched Earth" then went over to Salon.com and clicked on "Baked Alaska." A theme, yes? One psychological, one physical/enviromental.

I read somewhere, perhaps Rob Hand, not sure now, but that in astrology, the more 'aware' you are, the less physical the energy of transits are. Your awareness level determines the level of energy the planet will take to be heard/get thru to you. So say a "Saturn transit" can take place either on an inner level or an outer/physical level, ie some event that would represent the lessons symbolically implied. Most times the transit probably operates somewhere in between. Except in GWB's case, and that scares me. He still believes global warming to be a scientific fantasy.

Siobhan, that's it exactly - They'd rather be "right" (even in the face of so much wrongness) and to hell with the rest of the world. I don't know - the last four years have made me look at this country in a very harsh light, and I don't like the view. I tend to be a fighter, but I swan, ; ) if they do it again and I know we are looking at four more years, I will know for sure at that point that the America I was young in and grew up in is dead. It breaks my heart. It truly does.

Well, let's throw some real fear out there. I see from the writings of a lot of pundits... some of them declare themselves progressives or democrats... & they talk about four more years of bush&Co. I can't imagine why they stop at "four more years." Why on Erath, in their scenarios, do they say Four More Years. It wouldn't be any Four More Years. There'd be no elections OR faux elections again. Debt/deficits for g'children?!!? Why stop at g'children?! It'd be gg'children, ggg'children, ggggggggggggg'children. So... we'd better stop this maligant growth... um, right now how about.

That's pundits in the media, not posters here in case anybody is ready to take offense. ;O)

Remember reading somewhere that the state of Florida's birthday corresponded to having the Sun at 20 degrees of Gemini. Made sense because my one visit there wasn't that pleasant having Saturn natally at 20 degrees of that sign.

Pluto's stationary opposition to it along with Mars square is certainy indicative of this highly dangerous period.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/story/230745p-198181c.html

New York Daily News

W for war but eager
to avoid it, prof recalls

Friday, September 10th, 2004

President Bush' former Harvard Business School prof says his ex-student supported the Vietnam War but wanted somebody else to fight it.

Yoshi Tsurumi said yesterday that Bush told him his father's connections got him into the Texas Air National Guard. "But what really disturbed me is that he said he was for the Vietnam War," said Tsurumi, who has also taught at Baruch College and the City University of New York. "I said, 'George, that's hypocrisy. You won't fight a war that you support but you expect other people to fight it for you.' He just smirked."

Tsurumi, who crossed paths with Bush in the early 1970s when the future President was studying for his MBA, previously has criticized Bush's economic policies and described him as a mediocre student who "believed people were poor because they were lazy."

But Tsurumi's new volley comes as Bush has been battling allegations he got preferential treatment at the height of the divisive Vietnam War. Bush, according to Tsurumi, "had no sense of guilt" about getting into the Guard while others wound up fighting in Vietnam.

"He was very casual about it," the professor said. "I said, 'Lucky you, how did you manage it?' He said, 'My dad had a good friend who put me at the head of the waiting list.'"

The White House declined to comment on Tsurumi's recollections, but Bush has denied that his father, who was a congressman at the time, pulled strings to get him a much-sought-after berth in the Guard.

If the shrub really wanted to clear up the matter of his military records he would simply authorize the release of his entire record which is on microfisch in Colorado (depository for such)...

Some are saying the records don't matter, that the Dems and others asking for them is hurting Kerry. Fact is the records available up to now prove his was AWOL... he matters because it means he has LIED to the American people... he LIED on TRussert's show... he LIED when he told us we had to invade Iraq... there were and are no WMD...

So, our cowering misleader, avoided the draft in the 70s, got a posh position in the Guard through the influence of his father, state side, and managed to screw that up by not attending scheduled drills and not showing for a physical.
Then he has the unmitigated gall to attack a candidate for office by suggesting that he did not earn his purple hearts (three, count 'em!).

Dan Bartlett and Karen Hughes purged Bush's military records when he ran for office in 2000... the press had neither the cajones or the work ethic to pursue the matter then, and they are exhibiting the same characteristics this go-round. (At Least they are consistent!)

The Swifties attack on Kerry and his medals has caused anguish and suffering for all Viet Nam veterans... many now feel their medals have been devalued... they are reliving the nightmares of the war all over again. This pResident has much to answer for...

Now we have reached the 1,000 mark for fallen troops (actually, we reached it long ago, but the Neandercons don't count the troops who die enroute to hospital from Iraq... sneaky, huh...)
and if your heart can stand it, go to http://www.truthout.org for the names and photos. Folks all over the country are lighting candles. Did our fearful misleader?

------------

Lucy, that was a tremendous rant... you go girl. Mind if I send that to some folks for talking points to their Repub friends (there actually are a few good ones left)?

----------

Jaycee, we send light --- tons of it --- purple, blue, white, whatever color you like, to surround the folks in harms way in Florida and Jamaica and Cuba and Haiti etc. Hope you are evacuating and will remain safe... blessings on you and all of the other posters in Florida and in Ivan's path...

Namaste

Laurie and Mimi,
I wrote a cheery note to Claudia D and she wrote a little informative note back. Physically she is recovering from a "nasty" root canal and could use some cheering up. Emotionally she is very bummed by the wingnut who sent loads of hatemail to her StarCats site because they didn't like what she had to say about the country, BushCo, and 2004. Doesn't know how this Jerk found her but it has made her very leery of making anymore political statements! She wrote that she would give it some thought concerning coming back to us.
Her email address is: cddstarcats@yahoo.com

On the subject of them flippity-floppity necropubs, Jo... they certainly thot lying was a big deal pre-bushaholic... enuf to spend about ten million dollars & almost 100% of the nation's time... howling about President Clinton's weenie... um, no, it was "lying" they were very concerned about. Oh, & what a draft-dodger he was. Ethics sure change when one steals the steering wheel, don't it. ;O)

Hey folks, can we just remember that over and over the very talented and wise astrologers on this site have said that these few weeks are going to look grim for us due to Beelzebush's particular aspects (don't look to me for details - math, and therefor astrology, is not my strong point!)?

More importantly, what are you doing to get out the vote? To tell everyone you can to order those recountable absentee ballots? To go to the DNC site and let them know that it's time to take off the gloves and get fired up instead of defending an indefensible status quo?

Are you talking to you neighbors/friends/relatives? Quit following the already skewed polling that's being done by the corporate media and call your local county clerk to volunteer as a poll watcher, or your local Democratic party headquarters to volunteer to perhaps drive handicapped or housebound voters to the polls.

Please remember that these polls are not the vote, and that's the only thing that matters - getting as many people as possible to make those little X's on paper and mail them in, and NOT to use the corruptible electronic machines that will only count the votes they like, that's the real job for anyone who doesn't have a death wish for democracy and the US.

It's really nice to read this site most of the time, but sometimes, like today, it feels like there's way too much wringing of hands and rather less emphasis on taking some kind of direct action to get through to the over 50% of eligible voters who don't bother to vote. Encourage them, remind them that the more of us who vote, the more likely the outcome will be something that will be better than what we have now.

I love a good gabfest on esoteric topics as much as anyone, but we are getting down to the wire in terms of the deadline for registering to vote and/or requesting an absentee ballot. It's all those non-voters who will turn Beelzebush out on his ear and give us a chance to really make a difference. The changes will come, they are going to be tough on everyone, the face of the world will change - and it's about time, too! Work for good and keep the negative out of your life, your thoughts and your hearts!

Thanks for letting me vent a bit - now it's off for the weekend with no dialup, but I always try to check this site at the end of my work day and will try to converse with anyone who cares to take issue with my viewpoint as time permits. We're in the runup to the beginning of our academic year and things are busy, so don't be surprised if it takes me a bit of time to get back to you.

Ahh, Jo of Oregon, you continually krack me up.....

Anyone here read The Onion? I picked up the book The Onion put out in 2002....I keep finding little things like God Ends Universe After waking up next to Suzanne Pleshette....

Sometimes it helps to actually laugh.

Folks there is more ways than one to help. I worked at a Quilt-a-thon for soldiers today. Our little town was taking anybody willing to cut, iron, and sew up lap-size or gurney-size quilts for the Red Cross. [Was told that Walter Reed Hospital gets 40 new wounded soldiers a day.] These amazing quilters searched all the fabric stores in the Puget Sound area for "patriotic" red, blue, white cloth to do this event. So far they have pieces cut for 70 quilts. They brought in 10 sewing machines and irons so people could rotate jobs between two rooms. Everyone said that they love all the soldiers and where glad there was finally something they could do. What a community I lucked into! It's also 9 to 5 tomarrow at the Vashon Methodist church if any of you lives around here.

Jill

WhooHooo!! Glad to do some sharing with you, judi, when I know very well that I'm often sharing only with myself... which is darned good company imo, but it's very nice to have a third I can tell you that. I'm awfully fond of the Onion, too... & I like effervescent stomach remedies. ;O)

Excellent article Sally!

I think those Mars-Pluto influences were at work tonight. My candidate and I were out canvassing and she backed into a tree. Now if only she could just back into our opponent!

I also found out today that some sleazy proxy for the Repugs was scavenging for financial data on the candidate. The problem with their party exists at ALL levels.

Also, I thought that the comments about a "scandal to end all scandals" ring true. I think Democrats are hungry for something like this. Metaphorically, it's almost like Democrats are ready for the nuclear option against the Republicans. Will there be a scandal to end all scandals? I hope so. But I can't imagine what it might be. Maybe the scream that Seymour Hirsch alluded to in his speech at the ACLU event. Speaking of which, did anyone notice that the scream painting was stolen from the museum about a month ago?

With regard to the Black Moon Lilith on election day, I think that this particular election carries with it the spiritual, pschological, emotional, intellectual, moral, and physical FORCE EQUIVALENT TO a major terrorist attack. This election is a major event and will be viewed as a pivotal turning point in world history.

I have just watched Bill Moyers "9-11" show,
and I am PO'd....why hasn't somebody slapped
Condi Rice up along side the head. If you look
the word 'bitch' in the dictionary it has her
picture beside it. Grrrrr!

Steve Bell has Bush on target

http://www.guardian.co.uk/cartoons/stevebell/0,7371,1301848,00.html

Bush has always been soft on terror....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,5013608-103677,00.html

Jo O....The 10th Circle of Hell.....name of the Onion book from 2002....a new level of Hell reserved for ad execs and real estate salesmen and.....NEOCONS (they didn't say that, but should have...)....don't have it in front of me, but when I have more time, I will post some of it! Laughing, laughing....I work in advertising.

Lucy, magnificent rant!!

wv, I saw that too. She is so exposed as are they. I do so wonder if it will make a difference immediately.

There is not much time left before the federal assault weapons law expires on September 13th.
During his campaign in 2000, President Bush pledged to renew this law. He can fulfill that promise if he shows leadership and demands that Congress send him legislation to renew this law, and prevent military style weapons like AK-47s and the UZIs from flooding back into our neighborhoods.
To sign a petition to extend the ban go to :

http://www.bradycampaign.org/members/register/
PQOP

There is not much time left before the federal assault weapons law expires on September 13th.
During his campaign in 2000, President Bush pledged to renew this law. He can fulfill that promise if he shows leadership and demands that Congress send him legislation to renew this law, and prevent military style weapons like AK-47s and the UZIs from flooding back into our neighborhoods.
To sign a petition to extend the ban go to :

http://www.bradycampaign.org/members/register/
PQOP

Anne, please don't take offense at Jo expressing her opinions. I did not at all get the impression that she was putting down yours or making you wrong. She was just sharing her own view. In fact, she was trying to give you hope. I actually feel that the 2 of you are both right: Kerry seems wonderfully able to take actions that may seem paradoxical but actually have ethical and spiritual bases. At the same time, although articulate and saying lots of good things, he doesn't seem to be articulating a platform that grabs people in a memorable or flashy way (Americans like flashy, I think). Of course we want him do win...we just wish his superiority to Bush was more obvious. Kerry is having to work for this. How could it be different, with Bush, the Republican party and the country having so much similitude? Bush knows how to speak to many in the country, whether traditional & conservative church goers or business people. These are the people who do not like, guess who? Liberals. And to them, all Democrats are amoral liberals!

Yes, I am a peace-making Aquarius-Pisces cusper. I don't like any type of disharmony. Yet my mercury Aquarius opposes my moon-pluto conjunction in Leo, so I am also strong & stubborn in my opinions & feelings. (Also, a mind-heart dichotomy?)

I've learned a lot from this article, as usual (so well-written), and a lot from the posts.

Pluto direct has affected me in a few ways. First, it's transiting my 6th house and I have just plunged into a new type of work: real estate. I am in an office environment again and on a disciplined schedule, after almost 2 years of not working and having much free time. There are so many papers, forms, rules and regulations that the need to stay organized is very great. I have gone out and bought all the organizational tools, including a new computer & printer. I'm also selling real estate in a new city, so I've bought some really good maps and computer map programs. This will be fun & interesting but it won't be easy.

As soon as Pluto went direct, it also began to square my n. mars-venus conjunction (22-24 Pisces) in opposition to my husband's Uranus and brought all of our issues suddenly to a head. Surprisingly (but not with Uranus involved), he is the one who highlighted them. (Saturn's also been t. my 1st house for 2 years and my new marriage has felt the affects; I've been exceptionally assertive & persistent, doing a lot of somewhat painful self-work & couple work) Mars-Venus are in my 10th house, so this contributes to the new career thrust, as does the fact that Jupiter just entered my 4th house (real estate). We are also renovating our home and I think Jupiter will break the impasse we've been at. Uranus will also soon transit back to 2 degrees of my 9th house Pisces sun for the third time. Not only have these past 2 years brought me a whole new life, family, career and home, but intense 9th house interaction with politics and writing via email and the internet. Then, many intensive weeks of studying for my real estate license, followed by a 4-week post licensing course, which will be followed by a 9-week sales coaching course. Sometime in the next 2 years, Uranus will be transiting my Pisces Jupiter in the 9th and Mars/Venus in the 10th house. That should be interesting.

I know there are more important things happening in the world than one person's life, and that this site is for mundane astrology, but I cannot help but marvel at the ways astrology works in ny life.

I love this site. so where do I find out about 19 degrees of Sag. Sabian Symbols? Why is it the darkest degree of the zodiac?

My goodness Sally, that was such an excellent article, thanks for the effort!

I am the new Teresa who will henceforth be teresa b. Will that work original teresa?

To one and all...

John Forbes Kerry has been fighting crime and corruption in government all his adult life and has been winning. He is an extremely powerful man, largely indicated by his Pluto conjunct north node in the eighth house, the force being constantly renewed by the eighth house placement. The government with the use of the media is now trying desperately to bring him down. They will fail, as they all have since Richard M. Nixon on down. We must stop focusing on George Bush and start supporting Kerry with all the might we have and can get. Let's stop trembling and waiting for some terrible fate to come down on us. It already has. Let's snip the wire to the panic button, stop the hate, and have faith and confidence in ourselves.

OMFG, wv, you think you are po'd? I saw the NOW 9-11 show tonite as well. And here I had just written about becoming detached. Well, that great notion lasted all of 30 min. I was not only cursing Condi Rice, but GWB and his whole admin. And they have the gall to run on 9-11 as a platform for keeping US safe????????

And now some wingnut is stalking/threatening Claudia? If I could only shoot lightening from my fingertips, he'd be a smoking pile of #*%.

Thanks Sharon K for sharing your transits.

Beasley, for any Sabian Symbol you can go here.

http://zodiacal.com/oracle.mv

However, I am thinking Sally was referring to what she wrote in her previous article entitled "Spit Out from a Black Hole." You can find it on the first page, left side.

"It is also worthy of note that Transiting Pluto has been going back and forth across the Black Holes of Innana (Queen of the Heavens – 18 Sagittarius) and Ereshkigal (Queen of the Underworld and sister to Innana 19-Sagittarius) although sisters, they represent two halves of consciousness (the light and the dark) When Ereshkigal lost her husband Innana felt it her duty to go to the Underworld to comfort her sister. Ereshkigal in grief and jealousy put her sister through unspeakable tortures, exhibiting the worst and most depraved of human qualities, until Ereshkigal was wholly comforted and validated Innana was not released from these tortures."

Sigh, I have calmed down now. That is why I love to come to this site. It's a refuge in the storm. Thanks all for being here.

Some of posts today remind me of a woman I knew earlier in my life. She had been having marital problems with her husband and sought the help of a therapist. After several sessions the therapist gave her assessment. The therapist started out by saying that she had to be careful about what she said because the woman if she didn't like what the therapist had to say would likely walk out and never return.

With that the woman became upset and indeed stormed out of the office. When I asked if she was going back she said that it was obvious that the therapist wasn't worth her time if she had to be careful about what she said.

What she never got was that therapist was exactly right. She said the wrong thing and the woman walked out never to return.

My point is that it has been said by many here and at other sites that Kerry would not do very well in September. That it would be a rough month. Well, they are right! Things are not going well and it doesn't look good. But don't lose sight that they were right. Take some deep breaths and try to remember that things do look better in October and November. Right or wrong, I think Kerry still has a good shot at winning. Like they say, "it ain't over until the fat lady sings!"

From the Sabian link:

*** SAGITTARIUS 19 ***

PELICANS, DISTURBED BY THE GARBAGE OF PEOPLE MOVE THEIR YOUNG TO A NEW HABITAT.

You may feel that conditions are changing and you and your family (sometimes friends) don't feel safe. You may need to move to a new situation which will provide more nourishment and less danger. This can refer to an inner withdrawal. Concerns with survival. If negative - not being prepared to compromise or co-habit

baraka & abilene: i second those emotions. i was in ga the week before labor day and nobody was talking about the election, no signs, no commercials. it all starts after labor day. people focus and change their minds. kerry has to show he'll fight for himself in order for the people to believe he'll fight for them. i see his loss of support as a temporary que from the people to get focused and show some spunk. he can do that. if he doesn't pull a 'gore' in the debates (i love gore--agape love Kitty!) and takes *h on head on, he can recoup and repair any temporary leaks in 'the boat.' gore won the debates but he his behavior was odd. kerry just needs to nail him good and stare him down.

when things get me down and i need a boost, i just think of what it would look like if the aw 'family' could all get together in person:

http://kittiesandbunnies.com/

N.B. i need that site now after reading that 19 Sagitarius is "(Queen of the Underworld and sister to Innana 19-Sagittarius)" thats right where my Jupiter is!!! i've never asked for personal astrology information but how about a reference for what this means. i mean, couldn't i be 'king' of the underworld or, at least, 'prince.'

Maybe we can ask Sally to start a thread for the hand wringing crowd. I am a paid in full member BTW. This way it won't disturb the atmosphere for those of you who remain so consistently hopeful. It's just a thought...not meant to be snotty!

from Democrats.com...running poll accounting:

Electoral College Predictions
Site Kerry Bush K-B
EP 250 288 -38
EVP 252 254 -2
MyDD 291 247 +44
R04 311 227 +84
Rasm 175 213 -38
Zogby 264 231 +33

This is a very wide swing, is it not? It still favors Kerry, but look at how inconsistent the results are!

here's a comic bit...republican swipe at JK

"John Kerry blasted for being too soft on Hurricane Frances!"

Who would you vote for today? Go vote. At this moment it's Bush by 58%.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5963411/

Those looking for Geneva Clark article can find it in archives here: http://www.astroworld.us/archives/000325.html#000325

Here's a portion of it:

"Astrologically the Twelfth House is the realm of scandals, enemies and what the books like to call "self undoing". Which does not mean the ability to unhook all your buttons and get yourself undressed without assistance. But that overly confident, cocky, puffed-up sense one gets just before the whole world caves in on them, usually because they got too full of themselves and didn't think they would get caught. In the Bush Inauguration chart, also using Vedic, Pisces is on the 12th cusp; a home placement in the natural zodiac. Showing some very strong indications of the eventual self-undoing of this administration.

Twelfth House ruler, Jupiter, is in the Inauguration Chart Second, conjunct Saturn. Remember there is this same dynamic in Bush's own natal chart; Jupiter is damaged by Saturn. Meaning, sooner or later, it catches up with him and there will be a heavy (Saturn) price to pay. Jupiter also rules the Inauguration Ninth, of law and justice.

Jupiter enhances the Inauguration Moon, in the Eighth, giving it some beneficial enforcement. Moon, denoting the public, and ruling the homeland Fourth, receives support from Jupiter, indicating George's tremendous popularity. But like most cases of Jupiter excess, based on distortion and exaggeration, this has dissipated down to a fraction of its former glory.

Interesting that, in Vedic rules, the Second governs speech. Saturn here, conjunct Jupiter, opposing the public Moon, could indicate having to account for your sins and lies to the very people you deliberately deceived, appropriate with Jupiter ruling the Twelfth. It also, finally, links to Bush's culpability since Saturn rules the Tenth, the sector associated with the Chief Executive. Chart ruler, Mars, also throws its destructive influence to the Sun and Mercury, both in the Inauguration Tenth.

But is Jupiter's protective influence, by itself, enough to overcome some very destructive contacts for the Moon? Besides being opposed by Saturn, the Moon is weakened by being in Scorpio, the sign of its Fall. Moon is also conjunct Pluto, co-ruler of the Eighth, of death. Pluto in contact to the Moon shows how the public's emotions (Moon) have been tricked and manipulated.

Moon also rules the Fourth, of endings, with Cancer on the cusp. Abundantly negative conditions of the Moon indicate, as their last days wind down, there isn't likely to be a pleasant time in store for this administration. Saturn, the lord of retribution and vindication, is patiently waiting for his long overdue day of reckoning. "

Full-length October 17, 2003 opinion.

Vis Numar on Oct 20 | Link

Flash the court...

http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oId=17014

From Atrios:

Pick up Ms. McKay's CD when you can.

Good fun.

I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry
I also mirror this apology
this idealogy of sorry
in part of the liberal theology that's leading us to hari-kari
it's like a mythology, almost
like a malingering ghost
as we slowly decompose
writing in the grave of the polls
cryin' for Senator Wellstone and then proceeding to moan
at our own supposed sabotage of the elections at home

This will give you access to three very important articles. The first is particularly informative. Exposure of the neocons and their allies could be what will bring down Smirky & Co or at least weaken them severely.

http://www.tompaine.com/search/index.cgi?search=aipac+of+spies&x=16&y=7

Astrologers, please, what is the significance of a Jupiter Return? How often does it occur in one's horoscope and what are the implications.

My very green roots are showing, I know. Thanks.

Vis, thank you so much for Geneva's article. Jo, sure, post away! And I just got a hit from the line in Geneva's article that describes Saturn as "lord of retribution and VINDICATION" - I have Saturn sitting right on my Moon at the moment (Sadi Sati in Vedic) and Moon has to do with the mother. I recently discovered that my mother is actually mentally ill and was, as I had often believed, full-on crazy when she was raising me. I say that "I raised myself." alot. That knowledge is tremendous vindication for me, and I have just now realized that I owe it to Saturn! Gawd, I love this site. : )

Sally,

Thanks for the heads up. Your (as usual)rivetting comments lend assistance in walking through the world at this time, not just in understanding the election!

this lady knows how to write and sees through
the BS....worth a read..

http://www.rense.com/general57/hardly.htm

Hey Melanie, don't worry I got the message.

Janet, Jupiter returns, like any of the planetary returns, including your annual Solar return marks a period of time and events can be tracked from those returns, you can use Sun right on through to Saturn. You draw a chart up for the exact moment of return and then track throughout the period of time it's in it's return. The process isn't used much by astrologers in the US but is used extensive by European Astrologers

PAV: No hang-wringing threads and those of us wringing our hands on any given day (and we all do) really must look at our control issues. This whole GWB process is a real lesson in trust and knowing there is a reason no matter how it turns out.

Anne: I hope you don't take Jo's comments too seriiously! I had the same thing happen to me: I wrote a very sincere post regarding possible upcoming terrorist attacks, and it was promptly 'sliced and diced', along with a few insults. But when I went back and looked at it again, my post said pretty much the same thing as the particular astrologer whose article was posted up at the top (but the astrologer got accolades & compliments!).

It was enough to make me flee to the DU. The 'Meeting Room' is very nice, however this web site has so many interesting writers that I do enjoy coming back....except for the snarling pit bull...

Sharon K.,
You need not apologize for sharing your transits here... it is refreshing to see someone not only able to see their own inner work in a positive light but have the capability to 'put it out' there for others... your wonderful nMercury in Aq surely assists you in speaking to others... tPluto direct is doing a number on many of us, including myself... self-awareness is a bonus... and probably the necessary component in getting through the transit in one piece! tPluto is opposing my nSun and conjunct my sister's nSun... I believe she has the most difficult of the two, but we are both trying to 'remain standing in gale force winds.' Then of course there are the hurricanes in the outer world to remind one, as if one needed reminding, that this school we call life is difficult indeed. tUranus is moving out of my Sixth house and I have been mindful of checking my health... while tPluto is in your Sixth I would gently remind you to do the same... it sounds as if you are working really hard and under a lot of stress... you have tremendous strength/energy but a physical every now and again is good for everyone, esp. when one of the outer planets is transiting Sixth... imho...

Sally, re: Lilith....I had sent the Lilith article to a writer friend of mine and she wrote back:

If Lilth means the exposure of the "real" self to light, suppose Zell Miller and Ann Coulter and Dick Cheney ARE the real soul of America -- what D.H. Lawrence postulated as the perfect example of the American character -- Cooper's Deerslayer:" A man who keeps his moral integrity hard and intact. An isolate, almost selfless, stoic, enduring man, who lives by death, by killing, but is pure white." And what someone else paraphrased by saying the true American character is " Stonic, isolated, a killer."

And that DOES make sense to me! Judi

Robert Fisk's latest....

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/printer_091204Y.shtml

This is an interesting picture....(seems to be French , although written in English)....the picture of the Pentagon after the crash....and some questions....http://www.asile.org/citoyens/numero13/pentagone/erreurs_en.htm

Welcome, Teresa B. Lovely name we share. And no "H" in it either as most seem to think including my grandmother.

My point being, if we slay our internal dragon of hypocrisy now, face as much truth as we can, face our idividual acts of cruelty, delete some of our own blood lust, recognize our own capacity for humility, Kerry will take care of the government.

I can't believe it Teresa! This is amazing. I had no idea that you were posting your comment exactly when I was creating mine. I love this!

Oh, and about your grandmother, Teresa, my mother deleted the "h", but after my sister was born, she never remembered my name. My sis has a moon in Capricorn, though, and paid much more attention to her.

Teresas (is it pronounced Terre-A-sah or Terre E sah?)

You must be dopplegangers....

The proliferation of twins on this site....two Jos, two Pats, two Teresas....we are seeing double....any more lurking out there?

I thought of this because on Thursday night at my Jungle medicine workshop there was only one man there....and he was the spitting ghost image of a man I had a long relationship with. The original man was very much Aquarius sun, Leo moon, and was bold, loud, laughed a lot, dramatic, and a blonde blue eyed large bodied god type....and incredibly deceptive. And also dead. He died April 2000.
This man (at the workshop) appeared to be the same age, had bad knees (the original had Capricorn rising and bad knees), but was the pale, washed out, disowned ghost of the original. But by the end of the workshop 2 hours, there was a little sparkle in his eyes. It was good to see....but it really blew me away....as if when the projected into the world side died, the ghost was able to live.

Sorry, don't mean to imply anything about this two names thing as being similar to my story....but apparently the doppleganger thing is coming up for me!

I have a Capricorn moon too and have always felt slighted by my Leo mother. However, she lives with me so we've formed an uneasy truce. My grandmother was also a Capricorn moon and she was the one who always tried to put an "H" in my name.

Judi, we also have two Sharon's but they've worked out their identity issues on this board. Maybe there is a Gemini influence at work here. And it's pronounced Ter-ee-sa. My full name is Teresa Marie Catherine and I'm Libra sun, Pisces rising. I've been called Terri, Tess, and just plain T. I often use Daisy (after my little shih tzu/poodle dog) as my screen name. How about you Teresa B.?

I also am a Ter-ee-sa...my beloved father called me Treese, and never forgot it...my sister also calls me Treese...and my favorite talk show host in Denver likes to call me Ter-aay-sa(hard s)...I am an Aries rising with Mars conjunct Neptune an an identity that is completely up for grabs...also a north node in the first house, hilighting my search for an identity... I was thinking I should call myself Trixie Blue.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/091204X.shtml

A Thousand Dreams

Saturday 11 September 2004
Where do soldiers go when they die?
Do they sail away across a patriot sky?
Or drift on the breeze of the lie
That killed them?

    It is coming, and in Bush’s words, “We’ve turned the corner.”

    The numbers and names of the dead has reached 1,000 as the wounded, climbs above 7,000. At least those are the official numbers. This administration has always had a problem with honest numbers.

    But numbers are numb. Numbers are faceless.

    On August 10th, Lt. Commander Scott Zellem was killed in Iraq. He was the pilot who flew Bush onto the aircraft carrier for that banner moment: Mission Accomplished.

    Sgt. Ryan Campbell was killed back in April 2004. His tour would have been over on April 25th but was involuntarily extended.

    Go to thememoryhole.org and browse the photos of the wounded and maimed, now in recovery and learning to cope with the loss of limbs and eyes and brain trauma. Peer into the faces of Robert Acosta and Gary Boggs, PFC. Reed Rosenkranz, and Spec. Todd Rauch, Sgt. Gary Yoakam, or Spec. Edward Platt or Kris Atherton.

More....

oh, I forgot...about the Gemini... I have Venus conjunct Uranus in Gemini in the third--Merc in Cancer in the third..you think that's enough Gemini?

Teresa B., this is the only board where I use my real name or discuss anything personal which is kind of amazing because I'm usually a very private person. My chart ruler and dispositer of my sun are both in Scorpio. The only explanation I have for it is that I feel very comfortable here and can let my guard down a little. I hope you feel the same way and will continue to post.

BTW, I like Trixie Blue.

http://www.juancole.com/

Juan Cole, Informed Comment

Teresa B., my father had Uranus conjunct Venus in Aries in the 7th. How do you find the conjunction working in the 3rd? Let me know if I get too personal.

Well....Moi has Uranus 5 Gemini, Sun/Sat 16 Gemini, Moon 13 Leo and Rising 0 Scorpio....could I GET anymore out of sync? hahahahah....apparently I am in the company of Alexander the Great, Gen George Patton and Clint Eastwood....go ahead, MAKE MY DAY!

Judi, all I can say is "wow!". Jupiter will be making nice aspects to most of that over the next several months. Do your Gemini planets fall in the 8th? That would certainly increase the Scorpio influence.

I'll have to catch all of you later. It's a beautiful afternoon here in Missouri and I'm going to go outside and enjoy it for a while.

This election is OFF the table - a MUST read
for Kerrycrats...

http://www.counterpunch.org/

Whoo-hoo!!!

"Sept. 11 - One week after the conclusion of the Republican National Convention in New York, the latest NEWSWEEK poll shows George W. Bush’s double-digit “bounce” narrowing by to six points. Bush-Cheney had enjoyed an 11-point lead over the Kerry-Edwards ticket coming out of their convention, but in the latest poll, taken on the eve of the third anniversary of the September 11 attacks, the incumbents now lead 49 percent to 43 percent in a three-way race"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5971162/site/newsweek/

Oh, and Newsweek also invites you to vote in their poll. Seems those of us who are internet (thanks, Al) users have keener judgment than those who watch Faux-CNN-NBC-MSNBC, etc.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5963900/site/newsweek/

Teresa, yes, the Gemini planets are in the 8th...I've always done work for corporations, but have to work out of my own office or I get fired (a little on the mouthy side, don't like authority figures and stupid rules of behavior, not to mention seeing all the idiots who work in corporations doing what they do). And the Venus/Pluto/Moon,Chiron/ and No.Node are in Leo in 10th....

Teresas deux....I asked about pronunciation because I heard actress Christine Baranski talk about having lunch with Terrrr-A-sah Kerry....I was intrigued by that pronunciation (she rolled the Rs too)....but of course, that is Portuguese pronunciation....

Sally, thanks for the additional twin names on Sharon, too. I personally in my life have double Anns, quadruple Pats, double Sharons as friends...

wv, I read the, "In This Election Reality is Off the Table Swatting at Flies", By ALEXANDER COCKBURN

I wasn't impressed. I'm not a HUGE Kerry fan, however, that kind of depressing tripe does nothing to further the People's cause.

I have a hunch John Kerry has his aces up his sleeve and will play them when the time is ripe. He has come out much more agreesively the last few days. Reminds me of a long distance runner who paces himself then pours it on. His strength is he is a closer and he's one up on George, Kerry has a functional brain.

Bush is due for some really nasty transits, Kerry just has to get through September without shooting himself in the foot. John Kerry is a far better choice for President then that smarmy liar George Bush.

Anyway, Cockburn made me angry and I think he's full of ----.

Read the Alexander Cockburn piece on the Kerry fiasco....well, it is just what Sally has been saying....it ain't easy being Kerry right now in this time frame.....I just keep trying to remember that he finishes strong and that the aspects are changing in Oct.

I hope he finishes strong because the American public needs to get a clear picture of where this is taking us....hopefully this clear picture is the fall of the B***NeoCons....but I'll take a win anyway Kerry can get it.

Question to all astrologers:

Uranus is retrograde I think until Novermber 11th. The Presidential election being November 2nd, what might the effect of Uranus going direct be on the election relults?

Holy batman, skylurker....talk about the great divide....

the MSNBC polling proves there really ARE two Americas....and ours is online!

Port Authority of New York/New Jersery joining
lawsuit against Saudis

http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2004/09/10/agency_to_join_911_lawsuit_against_saudis?mode=PF

....my God, what will Maria do now???

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=domesticNews&storyID=6208717

Teresa

Thanks so much for the wonderful invite. This may be my new home in the world. You can't possibly get too personal with me... I've got a Sun in Cancer in the fourth!
My Venus Uranus conjunction is absolutely wild...constant bombardment of insight, extreme fast and constant mental stimulation leading to difficulty in relaxing...instant intimacy with people as well as mucho separation...endless desire for new people...attraction to high strung, electrically charged, oddball, inventive people, hopefully touched by genius...a horrible impatience with boredom...a love of electronics-- my three drum machines are my close family members(the Korg S3 is an awful brat)...and a love, love, love of internet communication.
And that's just a start.

Gotta go-- can't wait to talk to you all later!

Nader: Bush Has Already Won

http://www.newhouse.com/archive/benson091004.html

Financial Times: Time to Consider Iraq Withdrawal

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0911-26.htm

Laatest report from White House on Bush's Guard
record...

http://www.bloggerheads.com/images/bush_awol_document.gif?click

One other thing... there won't be a clear picture of where we are going because of the Uranus Neptune mutual reception.(I'll give you more on this later)...I think the confusion might remain until the election...the issues will remain clouded...in the end, while we are bouncing around in near insanity, the real commander of the ship will have to take charge...he already has, actually, but no one has noticed--that sneaky Neptune up there on his midheaven...I believe that the swift boat detail in Nam was one of the most dangerous--definitely not for the weak and afraid. Just remember-- we are dealing with a double Sagittarius, Jupiter in Leo, and we are in the midst of a wild ride with this great risk taker, adventeurer, and lover of excitement. So we better get our foot in the toehold and get ready!

Sally, I have a question. I've been thinking lately that Bush is reminding me more and more of Caligula (12-41 AD). Caligula was a spoiled child who was given everything he wanted by his father's friends, and as we know, descended into paranoia, cruelty, delusions of divinity, etc etc. One historian (Blount) described him this way: "Caligula is best understood as an infant allowed to be infinitely terrible by an obsequious Senate and subject to no restraint or authority" .

Here's the question..........are there ephemerii available for the first century ? Or other historical data about Caligula's astrological particulars? It would be highly interesting, I think.

Thank you,
Teg

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uklatest/story/0,1271,-4488551,00.html?gusrc=ticker-103704

The UK ambassador to the United Nations in the run up to war, Jeremy Greenstock, comes clean. Now if only his partner in crime John Negroponte would do the same: Allies 'duped into waging war'

One of al Qaida's aims in its September 11 attacks on the US three years ago was to draw the west into military conflict on Arab soil, according to Prime Minister Tony Blair's former envoy to Iraq.

Sir Jeremy Greenstock's comments appeared to give some credence to the argument of critics of the Iraq War that the US and UK played into al Qaida's hands by launching last year's invasion.

Opponents of the war warned that it would act as a recruiting sergeant for terror chief Osama bin Laden, by appearing to confirm his claims that the West was engaged in a war on Islam, as well as providing a new field of battle for his militants.

More...

WV,
Alexander Cockburn? He supports the Green Party, does he not? There are about 5 Cockburns who post at Counterpunch and I can't keep them all straight (though I believe they are related)... but I googled up a few articles by A. Cockburn and the impression I get from those articles and the one you linked above, is that there is no love lost between him and the Democrat Party and its nominee, John Forbes Kerry, and that he indeed supports Ralph Nader and Camejo... correct me please if my impression is not accurate, as I am rapidly gaining the reputation of a junk yard dog or pit bull, and I certainly would not want to embellish that rep... although the nuance of it, that I might in fact be seen by some as a bi#$# at this stage in life is somewhat complimentary, having failed to attain that status before the onslaught of my senior years.

At any rate, I value your comments, although we don't always agree, and simply for the record I wonder if Cockburn does indeed support Nader.

Namaste

one last thing before I go

T...the Venus Uranus conjunction in the third also means telepathic communication, which is how we ended up posting simultaneously.

The election HAS been tortorous and nervewracking, but i believe there is a way of coming to terms with it. Several times you have pointed the way Sally. You just said upthread, "however things turn out" and I find in the last several days I am resigned to that. That thought would have annoyed me previuosly because if somehow * got back in we were going to have to suffer watching our country being destroyed in an even more dastardly fashion. But recently I've seen interviews with everyday folk who are ardent *ush supporters and I asked myself again, as we have all done, what is it going to take to wake these people up? Maybe it's going to take *ush getting re-eclected and destroying our country. The needed and coming revolution you've talked of. Yes we are going to have to suffer along with those who will get their wake-up call, but I guess those are the breaks and just maybe why we are here in the first place. We will be here to guide and rebuild a better America. It's like a mental version of the Grasshopper and the Ants in a way, with us storing up knowledge, wisdom, intuition etc. Does this sound nutty? It might, but I'm not handwringing or foaming at the mouth anymore regarding this election. Nor am I going to stop my efforts to get the truth out and Kerry re-elected.

"Whatever we leave to God, God does and blesses us. The work we choose should be our own, God lets alone." I think my job is to follow the blue print that will be made visible on Nov. 2nd.

Greek Orthodox Leader Dead in Helicopter Crash Sat Sep 11, 2004 04:36 PM ET

by Ellie Tzortzi

ATHENS (Reuters) - Egypt's Patriarch of Alexandria, a top Greek Orthodox leader in a post that traces its lineage back to one of the first disciples of Christ, was killed in a helicopter crash, Greek authorities said on Saturday.

A military spokesman said rescuers had found 7 bodies and were searching for the other 10 people aboard the military Chinook helicopter which was carrying Patriarch Petros and some of his staff when it crashed. Earlier reports said nine bodies had been recovered.

Petros was on a pilgrimage to Orthodox monasteries on Mount Athos in northern Greece. The helicopter went down some 20 miles from Mount Athos around noon due to still unknown reasons.

Military sources said there was practically nothing left from the helicopter which sank in deep waters. All aboard were assumed dead but the search would go on for at least 48 hours.

"We are devastated from this tragic accident where the Patriarch of Alexandria, venerable clerics, his staff and the crew lost their lives," said Church of Greece leader Archbishop Christodoulos.

The Patriarchate of Alexandria, established in 42 A.D. by Saint Mark the Evangelist, is second in Orthodox Church honorific rank after the Ecumenical Patriarchate in Istanbul - formerly Constantinople and capital of the Byzantine empire.

Alexandria's patriarch is considered to be Saint Mark's successor and heads the Orthodox Church in Africa, ministering to some 100,000 Africans and 150,000 mainly ethnic Greeks.

"The Patriarchate of Alexandria and All Africa is one of the three oldest worldwide, along with that of Antioch (Syria) and Rome," said Father Costas Kyriakides, a theologian in Cyprus where Petros was born.

"It has always been extremely important. It carries a very heavy history and is very active in missionary field work in places like Kenya and Uganda," he told Reuters.

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=6210704

Interesting side note: Caligula banished all Astrologers during his reign, and those who somehow "practiced" were forbidden to find Death in any Emperor's chart.

Just thought you'd be interested in a bit of historical trivia.

I didn't see too many comments about jupiter return so I would like to add

In retrospect, you will remember your Jupiter return as one of the best times of your life barring other stronger aspects.
You might also gain a little weight. During my 1st jupiter return, i got into some spiritual stuff, bought and rode horses, had a wonderful time (my jupiter is in the 12th house, ergo, horses :) )

This last jupiter return (I'm ancient, i have had two!) my youngest son graduated from HS (less responsibility) and my husband and i started "dating" again, going on hikes.. I also went back to school and started to get fluent in Italian..
hope that helps.
I don['t think i am the only one here that's had a jupiter return though :)
MImi

I have always seen him as Caligula. Eerie.

That's lovely Mimi!

Teg, the ephemeris you seek:
http://www.astro.com/swisseph/swepha_e.htm

Check this Sally - astrowise, shrub's bad karma and dasa are just beginning next week and is going to go on a TAILSPIN exponentially, starting
9/13

What's a dasa?

Many of you are upset by the contents of the Cockburn piece. I am not and I have to say I concur with most of his observations. I don't believe that Kerry has made the most of the issues that need to be front and center on the agenda. I believe that Kerry got handed the nomination by the DNC and becasue he really didn't have to fight for it, he dosen't have the fire to fight for the uninspired voter. Notice, I didn't say swing voter. I believe everyone who plans to vote as of today knows where that vote will be cast. It's the non-voter who usually sits on the sidelines, uninspired, who will decide this election. Kerry is the natural choice for such a potential voter. But so far, Kerry has said nothing to inspire such a person. The anti-war movement is far larger than given credit for in the media. Many of us who consider ourselves anti-war may not be registered with any organization, however, the issue is paramount for us as we have children if an age to be potentially drafted. I was at a work related cocktail party recently (where I incorrectly assumed to be surrouned by Bush supporters) everyone I talked to said they'd be voting for Kerry; hoever, not one person was planning to do it with any enthusiasm. Most, including me, see it as their patriotic duty to JUST GET RID OF BUSH!

By:John H Cushman Jr.
New York Times
Sept. 11, 2004, 1:25PM

BOOK SAYS BUSH OFFICIALS WARNED OF PRISON ABUSE

WASHINGTON -- Senior military and national security officials in the Bush administration were repeatedly warned by subordinates in 2002 and 2003 that prisoners in military custody were being abused, according to a new book by a prominent journalist.

Seymour M. Hersh, a writer for The New Yorker magazine who earlier this year was among the first to disclose details of the abuses of prisoners at Abu Ghraib in Iraq, makes the charges in his book "Chain of Command: The Road From 9/11 to Abu Ghraib" (HarperCollins), which is being released Monday. The book draws on the articles he has written about the campaign against terrorism and the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/nation/2790432

Sag,

I don't know how you can say Kerry had this nomination handed to him. He had to fight his way from 6th, 5th or 4th in the polls and the Dean juggernaut to get it! And, as far as what he's saying or not saying, we here aren't in a position to accurately say that as all we're seeing is a soundbite or two of what's happening. From those I've spoken with who really weren't convinced to vote for Kerry and would do so only reluctantly and who've actually seen Kerry speak, they've come away impressed with his grasp of the issues, his plans for what he wants to do and his honesty in laying out Bush's broken promises. To determine that Kerry is failing based only on what we see in the Media's reporting of what he is or isn't saying is damning of the Media, not Kerry.

Just my two cents.

Hooray, my electricity is back on after a week without, and here I find a new wonderful article by Sally plus equally wonderful comments.

Really I could post an appreciative response not only to Sally's article but to every comment. Better not do that--with transiting moon in Leo opposite my natal mercury that would be very long winded. Will just say that the insights and links you all furnish are helping me so much. Am putting together campaign info to support Kerry and Betty Castor for Senate (Florida) and this really helps me organize my approach and points.

Also, will mention that there was no hurricane here (in St Johns County about 30 miles S of Jacksonville.) We had a tropical storm with occasional gusts of 45 mph. That was enough to do damage. To be designated a hurricane a storm must have sustained winds of 74 or more mph.

Most article I post I post without comment and some like the "what will Maria do" above was meant
as a joke, considering the law that Arhold signed.
The Cockburn article was such an article - he
feels that Kerry is slipping. I listened to Kerry
speak last week - I wasn't inspired - and even
though I loathe Bush - I have yet to find a reason
to vote for Kerry other than ABB. Now that he is
in bed with the DLC (who in my mind are moderate
Republicans) it is ever worse. To me Clinton was
a Republican, and I didn't vote for him. I belong
to the Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party -
although I didn't support Dean. I voted for Kucinich...and may do so again in November. Wasted
vote, perhaps, but I want to vote for someone I
would like to see in the White House before I go
to my Maker, the last was Kennedy, everyone else
has been the lesser of two evils. I will be 75
come January, and God alone knows how many more
elections I have...if Bush is reelected I believe
the country gets what it deserves. 50% of the population does not vote, 25% vote Republican and
25% vote Democrat. We need a Third Party, and we
need to change the laws that prohibit them from
getting on the ballot. The old shibboleth about
there not being a dimes worth of difference between the two parties is not too far off track.
Our foreign policy has been wrong for 50 years
though the administrations of both parties. That
is how we got into the situation we are in today.
We have not learned anything about the world and
could care less. Instead of voting on CNN or MSNBC
I think people would be better off reading the
foreign press - Australia, Canada, England
Scotland, India and the Arab Press...most of the
media in this country is not worth the powder to
blow it to Hell. If it weren't for the internet and blogs where would we be? The polls really
don't mean a bloody thing at this stage of the
game...the only poll that matters will be taken on
ll/2... and if Kerry doesn't get off his ass and
start inspiring people he won't be in the WH on
Jan 20 - I don't care what the stars say! He has
to start raising his voice, calling the opposition
what they are " a bunch of bloody liars" - it is
time to take of the gloves, bang the lectern, sue
the Speed Boat Vets, challenge the "facts" and
"talking" points put out daily by the RNC -nobody
on the right is sacred. Show the people that he
wants to be President, and that he is a leader.
Enough of the dilly dallying. Jesus, Theresa would
make a better candidate - at least she has balls!

National and world newspapers

http://www.refdesk.com/paper.html

More International Press

http://www.newsdirectory.com/

Kerry ain't fast food, that is for sure....he is a high calorie meal, and multi-coursed, too. You have to stay at the table for a while. Apparently the good people who have seen him personally (like Iowa, where he turned everything around) came away convinced.

We don't, in this country, stay at the table and talk....as they do in France. For hours, arguing.....we are instead the fast food nation.

Kerry tho, sure as hell managed a "comeback"....so I expect the same in Nov.

WV...I understand where you stand on this....I am anti this war...but we are fighting an even wider area of combat....this includes the US homebase, too....the imperialist degenerate Roman family is going for the gold, and we need to kick the whole bunch of cheaters of the medal stand!

We liberals lived thru the destruction of our idealists in the 1960's....hopefully these conservatives will live thru the destruction of theirs.

Sally, Mimi, thanks for responding to my Jupiter Return question.

Raj, that tail spinning thing can't come fast enough.

Barbara, glad to know that you made it through safe and sound. Hope you have seen your last storm.

Judi,

You make a wonderful point about the Conservatives perhaps having to undergo the destruction of their Ideals just as the Liberals did in the 60s. To me, it makes sense Karmically. And, in a way (with the political demise of Newt Gingrich and their Impeachement of Clinton), this may have already started.

I also liked the comment about America being a Fast Food Society. We are, in fact, an incredibly lazy, self-indulgent society. If someone doesn't make a point quick and have some flashy bells and whistles in the background, we get bored and start looking for our umpteenth Latte of the day. This has to change.

As for Kerry, he's a great Closer and please don't forget what our Astrologers on this site (who we all profess undying love for, but somehow -- apparently -- continuously doubt, in light of all the collective hand-wringing going on these days), things turn around for Kerry in a great way come mid- to late-September and for BelzeeBush in a not-so-great way at the same time. Trust our astrologers! They've been doing this, and doing it very well, for years. So, TRUST!! I know I do.

This is a great site - with links to wonderful
sources

http://www.aldaily.com/#newspapers

Very interesting article over at Mountain Astrologer which gives the bigger picture. GWB still has the power to make me lose it sometimes, and Kerry, at this point I just want to give him a chance. But, deep down I realize we all have such a long and powerful journey ahead, that whoever wins this fall will be but a bump in the road, as the rest of the issues fall into place. Sally, what you said about trust, says it all.

http://www.mountainastrologer.com/planettracks/tracks.html

The Neptune-Pluto Cycle and the Next Seven Years
by Tem Tarriktar

Astrology has many different ways of looking at the future. In this article, I am limiting myself to methods I have some experience with: outer-planet synodic cycles, sensitive degrees, and transiting aspect configurations. I will showcase ten of the more dramatic charts from October 2004 through June 2006, followed by brief descriptions of the key configurations of 2007-2012.

more.......

UNMASKED: THE GEORGE W BUSH THE PRESIDENT DOESN'T WANT THE WORLD TO SEE

By Neil Mackay,
Investigations Editor-Sunday Herald

(With less than 50 days to the US polls and a 10-point lead over John Kerry, George W Bush’s re-election as President looks a breeze. Despite his dodgy past, he has successfully sold himself as a ‘hero’ War President and defender of traditional US values. How did he do it? Bush’s people have run riot over Kerry’s record, so what about the President’s?)

Is President George W Bush, who weaves a narrative about himself as a man of God, actually a charlatan? Is he really a wolf in sheep’s clothing? Is his faith a sham? Is he more bad boy than born again? More playboy than penitent?
This past month has seen John Kerry, Bush’s Democratic rival for the White House, take one almighty pasting from the Republican right wing over accusations that he exaggerated his military record in Vietnam. Kerry, a many times decorated navy Vietnam veteran, said the smear campaign was orchestrated by a Bush team desperate to divert attention from the woeful state of the US economy and the running sore of Iraq.

http://www.sundayherald.com/44773

ok, so nobody liked the kitties & bunnies link. i'm really bummed out!

try this vedic site out (2004 prediction)

http://www.astromandir.com/uselections2004.html

Mike, you sure know how to make a girl smile.

Raj, what do you think of Mr. Mike's vedic site? I think highly of Mr. Mike, but I don't know vedic.

Awwww... Some of the cutest kitties I ever did see. can't say the same for the bunnies. :-)

The women will be coming out in droves to vote for Kerry, sometimes keeping it secret from their right-wing spouses. The women will put Kerry in office. Everyone, please remain positive.

Ty, Jonathan......I was very interested in that fun piece of Caligula trivia, which I'd never seen.

Shylurker, ty for lovely ephemeris site.....but I couldn't get it to work alas. :-(

Also, I realised, belatedly, that I have no clue as to Caligula's birthday. Can anyone help with that?

Thanks again,
Teg

Teg,

You are sooooo right about this. I have been saying this all along. Women are going to decide the election this year.

Teg,

I believe Caligula's birthday is 8-31-12. It's interesting how some of the Roman Rulers were very good astrologers and other Roman Rulers banned astrology and even sentenced people to death for having the Ruler's chart in his or her house. Their reasoning was that anyone with the birth chart of the Ruler could only be looking for the most auspicious day to assasinate him.

What I learned from the internet (thanks, Al) is that Caligula's birthdate is 8/31/0012.

I don't know why you can't access that ephemeris site. I just did. Anyway, let me see if I can summarize it for you. HOWEVER, we need the experts to tell us if we should be using the ephemeris I found for you (they did all kinds of stuff with calendars back then and I don't know if the ephemeris I sited is midnight or noon or whatever Greenwich. Anyhoo, here are the planets on that date of his (supposed) birth (I think evil such as Caligula is not born nor hatched but forms all on its own in some bunker in an undisclosed location). OK, here is what the ephemeris says for 8/31/0012:

Sun 5 Virgo
Moon early Cancer
Merc early Virgo
Venus 19 - 20 Cancer
Mars 9 Leo
Jupiter 20 Virgo
Saturn 2 Scorpio
Uranus 19 Taurus
Neptune 11 Sag
Pluto 24 Libra
NNode 12 Taurus
Lillith (I think) 5 Taurus
Sigh they have Chiron listed as "n.a."
I got to this site through the link I posted for you. Perhaps it's a problem with your browser or maybe you have a Mac or whatever. But, anyhoo, this is the info that is posted on that site. Experts will have to help you with the timing (Julian vs. other calendars, Greenwich vs. whatever and blah-blah-blah). Hope this helps

Jonathan, great history lessons....thanks...all this great stuff going on and I can't read most of it because I am working....

But for a repeat of the Caligula/Roman Caesars allusion, look online for Webster Tarpely's "The Unauthorized Biography of George HW Bush"...in intro is all about Rome!

Thanks for your comments, Jo. Pluto transiting & opposing one's sun must be quite a trip. I have dear friends & family who are Sag & Gem. I've seen them go through miraculous transformations and really blossom in many ways, but the road seemed rocky at times, emotionally & otherwise. One of my sister-in-laws has her sun at about 15 degrees Gemini and she had a major, major falling out with her brother over business & lots of emotional turmoil in general this year. My other sister-in-law is at 19 degrees Sag and has been going through a rebirth. She retired from teaching, threw away the conservative suits, panty hose & heels and spends her days riding her newly-acquired horse, having fun with her new "barn" friends, doing foster care for ASPCA animals until they're old enough for adoption, painting, and recently went on the trip of a lifetime all over Asia. As of late, she's had it hard emotionally but she seems to have recently passed through that and is now lit up, vibrant, and in her first relationship in 12 years. Now that I think of it though, she's been awfully impatient the last few years, unable to sit still or stay one place r very long. I wonder if that's related? Life would be dull without some of these outer planets aspecting us personally, but sometimes dull is a good thing.

May G-d protect and watch over us all :-)

Namaste,
Sharon

PS...my thoughts on the astrologers calling the win for Gore in 2000....as Sally said, he did win....and as the New Yorker said, by the biggest margin EVER for a Democrat....

We just have to recognize that a crook is a crook even when the crook says "I am not a crook".....and his friends, being friends, say, aw....give him a "pass"....

Those "friends" need a comeuppance too...

Colin Powell;...........as obscure as OBL these days!

A furious row has broken out over claims in a new book by BBC broadcaster James Naughtie that US Secretary of State Colin Powell described neo-conservatives in the Bush administration as 'fucking crazies' during the build-up to war in Iraq.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,5014153-110878,00.html
Pat C; I can verify that article about Jeramy Greenstock! While he was still UK ambassador to UN, he played golf with my Gr kids nannie in the Catskills. SHe was telling me about his take on the situation last Thanksgiving when I visited. Lest I sound "elitist"; my son-in-law, works very hard at reconstructing the Tri-beca area & in his absense 4 or 5 days of the week, she comes in 2 days to enable my daughter to run errands etc. She's a really dynamic person, who has nannied for the UK hoi poli in her day!
Pat QOP I'm post #1776 do I get a prize for that???

Sy Hersh will be on MTP tomorrow talking about his new book on Abu Ghraib... so the torture scandal will hit the airwaves again... still haven't heard from Sen. Lindsey Graham re my letter couple of months (? seems that long) ago, and folks at Kos are saying they have not heard from their Congress persons... the Kossack take on it is that no politician is willing to talk about it... they want to 'keep the lid on'---

Article on Kos front page now:

BAGHDAD, Iraq, Sept. 11 - The first American military intelligence specialist to stand trial in connection with the abuse of detainees at Abu Ghraib prison pleaded guilty here on Saturday to abusing prisoners. He was sentenced to eight months.

The soldier, Specialist Armin J. Cruz, 24, an Army intelligence analyst, was also demoted to private and expelled from the military on a bad-conduct discharge. He became the second soldier to be sentenced in the scandal, which was first described by the Pentagon as resulting from the misconduct of military police, not intelligence personnel."

-----------

Demoted and sentenced to eight months... hmmm...

One can get a year for conscientious objection. And what of the individuals higher up the chain?

And what about the children the international groups reported being raped, tortured... the women? Are they still being detained? No one will answer those questions either.

Will the media crucify Hersh tomorrow for daring to bring light to the subject again?

Will America still cling to its illusion that its military would never commit atrocities? Its gov't never sanction atrocities?

tPluto Direct is bringing the dirt again... will America shirk its responsibility again? Are we still okay with children being "detained"? Well, they're not our children, are they? Who cares about 'Sand Nig#@$#' - right...?

Heck, we don't even care enough about our fallen troops, our children, to honor them or console their families...

Transiting Pluto, Lilith... and New Moon, VOC? --- Morgana will speak to us of these things in a couple of days...

Thank you again, shylurker! I went back and had abother go at the Swiss E[hemeris site and it worked fine. Don't know what I screwed up the first time, but it was probably my fault. So glad to have this fascinating database!

Teg

Thank you Shade and Pat C. for your info on 19 Sag. Epic of Gilgamish (sp?)...and more. Also, you, All of you are so well informed,I am encouraged. I have been using FAIR.org, NPR, the foreign presses, Publicintegrity.org., Factcheck.org to get to the meat of what is behind the blather. I should save myself some time and just log on here.

Are you guys seeing this? Check out the Democratic Underground.

Report: Major Explosion in North Korea
Large Explosion Reported in Northern Part of North Korea; No Word on Fatalities or Injuries

The Associated Press

SEOUL, South Korea Sept. 11, 2004 — A large explosion occurred in the northern part of North Korea on an important anniversary of the communist regime, South Korea's Yonhap news agency reported Sunday.

Citing an unidentified source in Beijing, Yonhap said the explosion happened on Thursday in Yanggang province near the border with China. The damage and crater left by the explosion in Kim Hyong Jik county was big enough to be noticed by a satellite, the source said.

Another report says that the mushroom cloud had a radius of 3-4 kilometers. September 9th? Wasn't there some sort of major aspect that day? Could this be a nuclear test?

Cheer up, everyone, check out the electoral college vote polls below that show Kerry is ahead:

http://www.electoral-vote.com/

http://synapse.princeton.edu/~sam/pollcalc.html

I've mentioned before that my friend in Phx is the niece of Gen. Brent Scowcroft...she told me in 2000 that he said the same thing essentially as Powell about the Neos .... although being a gentleman, he doesn't say it quite that way....I think he said there were "extremists in DC"....

more scowcroft gossip....also learned that Gen Scowcroft more than once had to break up fights between the "crazies" when they were in the old administration....physically. Cheney/Rumsfield....and Scowcroft is a small man!

I've mentioned before that my friend in Phx is the niece of Gen. Brent Scowcroft...she told me in 2000 that he said the same thing essentially as Powell about the Neos .... although being a gentleman, he doesn't say it quite that way....I think he said there were "extremists in DC"....

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/12/international/asia/12nuke.html?hp

Atomic Activity in North Korea Raises Concerns

President Bush and his top advisers have received intelligence reports in recent days describing a confusing series of actions by North Korea that some experts believe could indicate the country is preparing to conduct its first test explosion of a nuclear weapon, according to senior officials with access to the intelligence.

While the indications were viewed as serious enough to warrant a warning to the White House, American intelligence agencies appear divided about the significance of the new North Korean actions, much as they were about the evidence concerning Iraq's alleged weapons stockpiles.

Some analysts in agencies that were the most cautious about the Iraq findings have cautioned that they do not believe the activity detected in North Korea in the past three weeks is necessarily the harbinger of a test. A senior scientist who assesses nuclear intelligence says the new evidence "is not conclusive," but is potentially worrisome.

If successful, a test would end a debate that stretches back more than a decade over whether North Korea has a rudimentary arsenal, as it has boasted in recent years. Some analysts also fear that a test could change the balance of power in Asia, perhaps leading to a new nuclear arms race there.

In interviews on Friday and Saturday, senior officials were reluctant to provide many details of the new activities they have detected, but some of the information appears to have come from satellite intelligence.

One official with access to the intelligence called it "a series of indicators of increased activity that we believe would be associated with a test," saying that the "likelihood" of a North Korean test had risen significantly in just the past four weeks. It was that changed assessment that led to the decision to give an update to President Bush, the officials said.

The activities included the movement of materials around several suspected test sites, including one near a location where intelligence agencies reported last year that conventional explosives were being tested that could compress a plutonium core and set off a nuclear blast. But officials have not seen the classic indicators of preparations at a test site, in which cables are laid to measure an explosion in a deep test pit.

More...

Ted Rall cartoon on the difference between Repubs and Dems on 9/11

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/uclickcomics/20040911/cx_tr_uc/tr20040911

http://www.commondreams.org/news2004/0909-08.htm

The Missouri report on corporation sending jobs over seas there gave 13 times the amount of money to Bush as to Kerry.

There is a film out there, a small independent film that I know everyone on this board would appreciate. Please go to whatthebleepdoweknow.com I'm so excited one review suggestd that perhaps there is a whole Metaphysical Left out there. I say Believe it!

Thanks, Mary Ann

http://olympics.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=6211175

Big Blast, Mushroom Cloud Reported in N.Korea

A huge explosion rocked North Korea near the border with China three days ago, producing a mushroom cloud that sparked speculation Pyongyang might have tested an atomic weapon, Yonhap news agency reported on Sunday.

The South Korean agency said the blast on Thursday in Kimhyungjik county in Ryanggang province appeared much bigger than a train explosion that killed at least 170 people in April.

South Korean Unification Minister Chung Dong-young sought to play down an atomic link, telling South Korean reporters after a National Security Council meeting that Seoul's assessment so far was the explosion was unlikely to have been part of the communist North's nuclear arms ambitions.

"There are some foreign media reporting such possibilities, but we are judging at the moment the explosion is unrelated to such reports," Yonhap quoted him as saying. Chung chairs the National Security Council, which advises President Roh Moo-hyun.

There was no immediate reaction from neighboring China. In Washington, a U.S. official said it was unclear what had happened and there were various possible explanations. Tokyo took a similar line.

"We've heard the report, and we are checking the details, including what's in the report itself," said Japanese Foreign Ministry spokesman Akira Chiba.

More...

Bernard Weiner is up to his funny shenanigans, this time with a memo from Rhenquist to other Republicans: Defeat Bush and his crew!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/articles/04/09/10_memo.html

"The Brave Posturing of Armchair Warriors"-----Government officials who glorify other people's patriotic deaths are rarely eager to partake of such glory themselves.

Powerful men in Washington have long records of supporting wars for other people to fight. Consider the current media controversy over the disconnect between George W. Bush's brave words and self-protective deeds. An unequivocal supporter of the Vietnam War a third of a century ago, Bush benefitted when influential guardian angels pulled some strings and got him into the Texas Air National Guard. Even then, Bush skipped out on some of his obligations, preferring to have a good time and work for a pro-war congressional candidate in Alabama.
Since then, George W. Bush never heard of an American-led war he didn't fervently support (from afar, of course). Likewise, the avidly pro-war Dick Cheney has explained that he took advantage of several draft-age deferments and stayed out of the U.S. military during the war in Vietnam because he had "other priorities.
http://www.alternet.org/columnists/story/19843/

Mushroom cloud not result of atomic explosion

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/09/12/nkorea.blast/index.html

Maureen Dowd is hot!

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/12/opinion/12dowd.html?ei=5006&en=16ce05d43ce33feb&ex=1095566400&partner=ALTAVISTA1&pagewanted=print&position=

http://tinyurl.com/4z4qw

BIG STORY: US News & WR digs up INDEPENDENT EVIDENCE showing Bush even more AWOL than we thought
by John in DC - 9/11/2004 10:56:07 PM

According to USNews, Bush's violation of the rules was EVEN WORSE THAN WE THOUGHT. This is a BIG honking story. At this point, I'll give the GOP the CBS memos if they want 'em - who cares if they're real now. USNews, known to be a conservative-leaning magazine, has just come up with indepdendent evidence showing Bush shirked EVEN MORE of his National Guard duty than we thought, that the White House lied about it, and that there is no explanation for how Bush could reasonably get an honorable discharge.

More...

If you are wondering why this story is important, read Dowd.

We need to force the media to keep after this:

"One of the bigger election stories of the past week centered on new doubts about whether the president had fulfilled his military obligations during Vietnam. With recent reports suggesting that as a younger man Bush did not meet his stateside National Guard obligations during the Vietnam war, voters are split on what they believe-42 percent of all voters say they now have serious doubts, the same number says he did his duty. The president's personal ratings on honesty took a hit this week, with 55 percent saying they view Bush as "honest and ethical" and 40 percent saying they do not. Seven days ago, those numbers were 62 percent and 33 percent."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5971162/site/newsweek

Kitty Kelley book is number 2 now on the Amazon.com bestseller list, right beneath "Unfit...". I am curious to watch what this new moon in virgo will do.

Thanks Mary Ann for the movie reference. I will keep an eye out. I'd love to see something visual from a quantum pov. Wow, Neptune is really kicking up the illusions we call life.

I believe George will be dragged off his pedestal just like Saddam was. In life , just as in astrlogy, what goes around comes around.

New action figure

http://www.praesentia.us/archives/dishonestdubya.html

If you check out CNN, US officials are now saying that the North Korea blast wan't nuclear. They're saying they think it may have been the result of a forest fire.

I think this is a patent lie. It's may be the case that the blast was not nuclear, but it sure as hell didn't come from a forest fire.

Forest fires don't make mushroom clouds and leave huge craters that can be seen from satellite.

Tom Frank - the true voice of the Liberal left...

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,5013832-102280,00.html

Powell calls neocons "f...ing crazies"

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,5014153-102275,00.html

Dave, Dave, Dave, don't you know that in Smirkworld all things are possible?

How's the campaign?

September 12, 2004
FRANK RICH
Coming Soon: Kerry's 'Apocalypse Now'

ESS than 48 hours after Bill Clinton, speaking from his hospital room, advised the politically ailing John Kerry to start talking less about Vietnam and more about health care, seven American marines were blown up outside Fallujah. So much for the pipedream of changing the subject of this election. Vietnam keeps popping out of America's darkest closet not just because Mr. Kerry conspicuously served there and Mr. Bush conspicuously did not, but because of what's happening half a world away in real time: a televised war in Iraq that resembles its Southeast Asian predecessor in its unpopularity, its fictional provocation and its unknown exit strategy. That war isn't going anywhere by Nov. 2, even as it is sporadically obscured by Florida storm clouds, and its Vietnam undertow isn't going anywhere either. Everyone knows that a Tet offensive, Sunni-style, could yet tilt this election in a direction unknown.

But while Vietnam cannot be escaped, that hasn't stopped both men from working overtime in their fruitless efforts to escape it. Their motives could not be more different: George W. Bush doesn't want quagmire analogies to Iraq, and Mr. Kerry doesn't want a referendum on his own Vietnam history. Yet weirdly enough, their strategies have been identical: they've each tried to deflect Vietnam by turning back the clock to World War II. They hope to bask in the reflected glory of a good war that had been transformed into a nostalgia craze in the "Saving Private Ryan" era of American pop culture just before 9/11.

Thus President Bush's acceptance speech, which included yet another of his Reagan-lite efforts to wrap himself in Normandy, was heralded by invocations of F.D.R. from nearly every speaker: Laura Bush, Tommy Franks, Zell Miller and Dick Cheney, who went so far as to inform us that he and Roosevelt share the same birthday. (Rudy Giuliani one-upped them all by equating Mr. Bush with Churchill.) Of course these World War II flashbacks had to come to a screeching halt before identifying the present Hitler, Osama bin Laden. To take the analogy that far would be to remind the audience that we had diverted troops and money from the essential war against al Qaeda and Islamic fanaticism to open an optional second front against Iraq's secular despot.

For Mr. Kerry, the World War II theatrics were just as tricky. The martial panoply of his convention culminated in his using "band of brothers" and "greatest generation" twice each in his acceptance speech — a patent effort to inoculate service in a controversial war with phrases that, courtesy of HBO and Tom Brokaw, have become our culture's indelible brand for World War II's unambiguous heroism. The Democrats' hope was that no one would think about what happened after the Vietnam band of brothers came home and split apart, at which point Mr. Kerry's antiwar role pushed him into closer proximity to My Lai than Iwo Jima.

The bait-and-switch substitution of World War II for Vietnam quickly proved a bridge too far for both candidates. Just when they thought they had fled Vietnam, it returned, whacking them in the face like a perpetually revolving door. No sooner did Mr. Kerry's convention end than he was impaled by the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. No sooner did the Republicans leave New York than word got out that "60 Minutes" was poking anew into the president's National Guard stint, a Pandora's box of unanswered questions first unlocked by The Boston Globe four years ago. Now there's a "Texans for Truth" ad campaign trailing him in mimicry of the Swifties.

The next explosive chapter in the unstoppable Vietnam narrative will be unveiled Tuesday night, when the documentary "Going Upriver: The Long War of John Kerry" has its premiere at the Toronto Film Festival, in a country that is itself synonymous with anti-Vietnam protest. This is the movie made by George Butler, a Kerry friend for four decades, and inspired in part by Douglas Brinkley's "Tour of Duty," the adulatory biography that boomeranged by launching a thousand negative media bites on the Kerry war record. Though early reports suggested that Mr. Butler would concentrate on Mr. Kerry's present campaign as well as his past, that's not how the finished film turned out. "Going Upriver," made without Mr. Kerry's involvement, is all Vietnam all the time. It opens on some 200 screens across the United States on Oct. 1 — the morning after the first scheduled presidential debate.

Mr. Butler reveres John Kerry. His film contains not a negative word about him. But that doesn't mean that the Kerry forces, so busily trying to "change the subject" of the campaign from Vietnam, are going to cheer "Going Upriver." To Democratic pols hoping that the election will now be about job creation, this friendly movie may be akin to friendly fire.

Only the first third of "Going Upriver" is consistent with the "band of brothers," Vietnam-era Kerry they do want us to see: it makes palpable just how brave it was for their man to venture into a 2,600-mile river surrounded by dense foliage where assailants hid, ready to strike at any time. You can appreciate why Swift boats in Mr. Kerry's division had casualty rates as high as 90 percent and how grotesque it is that Mr. Kerry's foes savage him now for having served "only" four months. (Would they say the same of those who have been wounded or killed in other wars, including Iraq, within four months of deployment?)

But then Mr. Kerry returns home. Mr. Butler has gathered seemingly every frame of archival film extant on the red-letter events of the Vietnam veterans' antiwar movement of 1971: the "Winter Soldier" investigations about American war crimes, the veterans' march on Washington, the Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing that turned Mr. Kerry into a political star. The young vet's charisma so upset Richard Nixon that he schemed with Charles Colson and Bob Haldeman to counter Mr. Kerry with a pro-Vietnam attack dog: John O'Neill, today the leader of the Swifties and the co-author of their best-selling bible, "Unfit for Command." In "Going Upriver," the whole plot is crystal-clear on a contemporaneous White House tape.

Mr. Butler, best known for "Pumping Iron," the 1977 documentary that first turned Arnold Schwarzenegger into a national commodity, can be a powerful storyteller. And nowhere more so than when he gets to the scene where Mr. Kerry and his buddies protest the war by throwing medals and ribbons over a fence onto the Capitol steps. This incident has been stigmatized as an ugly un-American activity by the Kerry detractors. But the scene plays quite differently when you see it here, not as a grainy snapshot but as an extended cinematic drama, pieced together by Mr. Butler from his own photos and the large and heretofore scattered film record made by the many news organizations present that day.

What stares you in the face is the anguish and grief of men who put their lives in the line of fire for a government that undertook a pointless war, mismanaged it, kept it going out of hubris and then abandoned it. These veterans do not lightheartedly toss away the symbols of their sacrifice in Vietnam; they struggle with tears and violently conflicted emotions as they do so. They are battered men often wearing the ragtag remnants of their uniforms. Their eyes are haunted. They are willing to engage in self-annihilation, eradicating the record of their own heroism in battle, if that's what it takes to prevent their brothers from continuing to die in a doomed mission. Watch this and try not to weep.

Set against this real-life backdrop of the time, Mr. Kerry's famous line before J. W. Fulbright, Jacob Javits and the rest of that Senate committee regains its patriotic force: "How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?" And as Todd Gitlin documents in his history, "The Sixties," the young Kerry's antiwar stance was hardly anomalous among his fellow Vietnam warriors by then, those still serving included. By that late point in the war — three years after Tet, L.B.J.'s abdication and Walter Cronkite's public declaration that we were "mired in stalemate" — there were seven desertions and 17 AWOL incidents for every 100 American soldiers. There were more than 250 antiwar newspapers within the armed forces alone. And still another 13,000 Americans were yet to die for the mistake.

It's hard to imagine paying crowds turning out for "Going Upriver" or any hagiographic feature film about any presidential candidate, no matter what its quality or political orientation. If anything, we're reaching the saturation point where we want to run away from both of these guys. But some of the crucial scenes in Mr. Butler's movie will inevitably filter into the 24/7 media ethosphere, much as the "My Pet Goat" sequence of "Fahrenheit 9/11" reached millions who never saw Michael Moore's film. There, out of context, those vignettes will be battered by the Swifties on Fox News and minimized by the Kerry operatives who want to talk about anything except Vietnam.

The person who might most benefit from seeing "Going Upriver" is Mr. Kerry himself. "It takes a special courage to speak out against a cause for which you were once prepared to die," Jeffrey Smith, a West Point-trained C.I.A. man of the Kerry-Bush generation, wrote in The Washington Post last weekend. That's the courageous hero of George Butler's film, all but invisible in the cautious candidate running for president with a position on Iraq so full of codicils that one of his top foreign-policy aides, Jamie Rubin, recently misstated it. Even Pat Buchanan articulates the ill effects of the Iraq war on the war on terror more precisely than Mr. Kerry. The Democrat's latest salvo on Iraq — "the wrong war in the wrong place at the wrong time" — no more undoes his past self-contradictory remarks on the subject than alliterative Bush slogans like "reformer with results" and "compassionate conservatism" give the president a coherent domestic policy.

Then again, if Mr. Clinton and the other new Kerry advisers are right and health care really turns out to be the most important issue in the election, it may not matter what their man says about Iraq. And if Mr. Bush can really persuade voters that the war in Iraq is World War II redux, he is no more likely to lose reelection in 2004 than F.D.R. was in 1944. But the same Newsweek poll that gave Mr. Bush an 11-point lead last weekend also found that most of these same Americans do not believe that the war in Iraq has made us safer. That's a Vietnam election-year dynamic, no matter how much the president or Mr. Kerry wants to run away from it. It's why the thousandth American casualty in Iraq may weigh more than the fractional fluctuations of the unemployment rate. It's why Fallujah, not Ohio, may prove the swing state to watch.

re assault weapons - armed thugs...

http://www.sfgate.com/comics/meyer/

Sally, just finished reading your latest article and it is outstanding as usual.
I have a question and I looking for some guidance...
How would/should I go about studying Astrology seriously?
I have been doing alot of reading as of late, and questions are starting for formulate, and I am looking for answers.
Are there reputable on-line courses that some one can recommend?
How about Kepler College in WA? or maybe I should consider working one on one with an Astrology teacher?
If anyone wants to give me their input, please feel free...

Thanks,

Take the pledge...

http://www.votergasm.org/Pledge.php

Heinz Kerry...new flavor..

http://www.observer.com/pages/frontpage5.asp

Watching CNN World News (the International version of CNN) and saw that John Bolton, from Bush's Administration, said that if diplomacy fails, we will attack Iran. Now, why isn't this explosive quote not getting ANY coverage in the American Media? Oh, that's right. It's less than 50 days before an Election and they might lose votes. Sorry, I forgot.

I think my head's about ready to explode.

Pluto has been lighting up my chart recently. I have Jupiter at 20 Virgo, Sun at 20 degrees Libra. I have been obsessed with redoing my condo-after that's done-I hope it will be my life too. Pluto is transiting my first-I should be doing more for my health and appearance than I am currently.

I used to do Political Astrology on the radio, then when I drifted away from my group, and the show died. I drifted away from Astrology too. Thank you all for rekindling my interest. I've learned a lot more than I thought I knew before: the importance of progressions, the asteroids, the Solar Returns. I came up following Moby Dick and dismissed some of the other stuff as outdated. I now know better and have gained greater insight.

Isn't technology wonderful? I had to make do with a paper ephemeris and photocopies. What would we have been able to do on the air with a website and a laptop? Probably miracles compared to what we were doing then.

One thing that I would suggest budding political astrologers read is-if-you can get through the prose-is Alice Bailey's Esoteric Astrology. Just reading the connections to the Seven Rays and the Twelve Signs will give you greater insight into those signs.

I want my Sabian Symbols book back! When I had it last, I had a hard time integrating what I read into the charts I was reading. But seeing all of this in real time has been educational to say the least. I feel I now truly understand some of the symbolism involved in reading those degrees.

Is the United States's natal Chiron 20 Taurus? If so, the trine from Capricorn and the inconjunct from Pluto hints that the health of the body politic may need some forced adjustments. Earth deals with foundations, and Pluto is making them shift a little in order to work out the national kinks in the system. Democracy is, after all, a work product of all of our groups united into a greater group, and sometimes group friction creates the need for adjustments and settlement-this time it's in the relationship between faith (Sagittarius) and governance(Capricorn) and how it intersects with real-word needs (Taurus). Global warming is the physical manifestation of this phenomenon. Its our beliefs about how humans should own and manage the physical world of nature that creates this manifestation.

Just rambling on.....

Jonathan, you're just not allowed to forget important information like that. :)

re: Shrub as Caligula, I may have posted this before or seen it elsewhere, but it's worth a read if you haven't seen it already:

http://liberty.hypermart.net/voices/2004/American_Caligula.htm

these posts and articles keep me informed and are the highlights of every day. Great work folks!!!
Keep the faith, and do not despair.

(btw, Tennessee, where are you located? I'm a Nashville-ian myself.)

Carol,
You ramble on all you want... I find your comments interesting... Welcome!

I also like sabian symbols and while there are probably other websites for them, this one I especially enjoy:

http://miva.zodiacal.com/oracle.mv

Namaste, Jo

Jonathan

John Bolton was put in the State Dept. to keep
an eye on Colin Powell. Before the Iraqi war
he was sent to Israel and promised Sharon that
we would invade both Syria and Iran. I think I
posted it at the time, but no one seemed to notice. It was carried in Haaretz, and some of
the more progressive blogs.

wv,
Maureen Dowd sure can turn a phrase. . . . I couldn’t have said it better.v Hey, I’d almost forgotten who Kerrys running mate is too. .Let me think a minute. . . “Oh Yea, that electric, stirring, all inspiring guy from the south somewhere” I sure hope Kerry reads the article and gets the drift. . . What in the He-double hockey stick have his advisors been thinking!

Eerie parallelism

The anniversary of September 11 seems to be generating a bit of a reflection on where we are and how are we doing vis-à-vis the war on terrorism. The recent article in the Atlantic and [Saturday's posting at Informed Comment] all seem to be coming to the similar conclusions: (i) while initially successful in Afghanistan, we had a real opportunity for a long run success there and we blew by not committing enough men and resources to it, and (ii) the Iraq war was a major strategic disaster brought about by our fundamental misunderstanding of the people we dealing with.

It’s striking how similar this is to our assessment of how we went wrong in Vietnam. I started rereading my old copy of Stanley Karnow’s book on Vietnam. The initial discussion of the mindset and assumptions that we had going into Vietnam are eerily similar to what Fallows describes in his interviews with Wolfowitz. People not familiar with a region or a culture never the less conclude that it is open to our moving in and radically changing its organization and cultural/political orientation. They are then surprised to find out that that is not the case when the costs in terms of bodies and treasure start piling up:

The essential reality of the struggle was that the Communists, imbued with an almost fanatical sense of dedication to a reunified Vietnam under their control, saw the war against the United States and its South Vietnamese ally as the continuation of two thousand years of resistance to Chinese and later French rule… American strategists misgauged the North Vietnamese and Vietcong by applying their own values to them. (p. 17-18)

Juan Cole argues that the Bin Laden and his followers see themselves as taking part in a thousand year war against Western Crusaders who are seeking to divide and conquer the Muslim world, and that their goal is reunite the Muslims and to try and create the single large Muslim/Islamic super state that previously existed under the caliphate system. To do this he notes that they need to overthrow the current leadership in a number of Muslim countries – particularly secular leadership like the Baathists in Iraq and Syria – and unite the Muslim world against the West. Viewed from this perspective, it becomes clear why the he reaches the conclusion that so far, the war in Iraq has been a success for Bin Laden and a failure for the U.S.

When you compare Cole’s statements with Karnow’s statements on Vietnam, it really highlights the repetitive nature of the policy failure. In the when it rains it pours vein: I was listening to a NPR interview of John Judis who has a new book on even earlier attempts at American empire building and what we learned and then forgot from them. One particularly striking part of his comments is the passage about the current Bush Administration:

At noon, October 18, 2003, President George W. Bush landed in Manila as part of a six-nation Asian tour. … In his speech, Bush took credit for America transforming the Philippines into "the first democratic nation in Asia." … As many Philippine commentators remarked afterward, Bush's rendition of Philippine-American history bore very little relation to fact. True, the United States Navy under Admiral George Dewey had ousted Spain from the Philippines in the Spanish-American War of 1898. But instead of creating a Philippine democracy, President William McKinley annexed the country and installed a colonial administrator. The United States then fought a brutal war against the same Philippine independence movement it had encouraged to fight Spain. The war dragged on for fourteen years. Before it was over, about 120,000 American troops were deployed and more than 4,000 died; more than 200,000 Filipino civilians and soldiers were killed. And the resentment against American policy was still evident a century later during George W. Bush's visit.

Politicians often rewrite history to their own purposes, but, as Bush's analogy to Iraq suggested, there was more than passing significance to his revision of the history of the Spanish-American War. It reflected not just a distorted picture of a critical episode in American foreign policy but a seeming ignorance of the important lessons that Americans drew from this brief and unhappy experiment in creating an overseas empire. If Bush had applied these lessons to the American plans for invading Iraq and transforming the Middle East, he might have proceeded far more cautiously. But as his rendition of history showed, he was either unaware of them or had chosen to ignore them.

Judis goes on to talk about how our policy during the Spanish American War represented a fundamental shift away from our prior policy of anti-Imperialism, and towards a pro-Imperialism policy. He states that many of the supports of the policy, including Teddy Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson, came to see a policy that they had initially supported as a huge mistake. This too has a striking parallel with our radical policy shift towards preemptive war based on our high quality intelligence information and the policy becoming discredited with its first major implementation in the Iraq war.

Harold L. Cole - Professor of Economics - U.C.L.A.

posted by Juan @ 9/12/2004 06:16:29 AM
http://www.juancole.com/2004_09_01_juancole_archive.html#109496351780024396

Another source for Sabian symbols

http://www.sabiansymbols.com/

Carol,

I look forward to your ramblings. For some reason, reading your words inspired me to study astrology just a little bit harder and work just that much more to understand the articles and comments posted here. So, please, feel free to comment away!

Janet, I won't forget. And wv, I DO remember you posting that bit about John Bolton in the State Department. I was just shocked that he could make this statement and it'd be getting absolutely NO press in the States AT ALL! Now, if someone from Clinton's administration had said anything like that ... ? Eeeek! There'd be round table discussions on Larry King five nights a week!

I’ve just started reading Pat Buchanan’s book Where the Right Went Wrong: How Neoconservatives Subverted the Reagan Revolution and Hijacked the Bush Presidency.

What a sorry state America has come too when I start actually agreeing with Pat Buchanan on a number of points. Something has gone terribly wrong. . . . My dad says he’s so far right he is starting to swing left.

Veteran pundit and occasional presidential candidate Patrick Buchanan offers up scathing criticisms of Bush's policies, the arrogance and boorishness of which, he warns, could ultimately dramatically destabilize the United States' superpower status. The problem, in Buchanan's eyes, is the so-called "neoconservatives," who favor a pre-emptive military strategy and big government and don't mind running up dangerously huge budget deficits to support it. The war in Iraq, fought without direct demonstrable threat, alienates America in the eyes of the rest of the world, says Buchanan, squandering the global goodwill earned after the 9/11 attacks and creating exponentially larger numbers of terrorists who will threaten the U.S. for generations to come. The zeal over free trade among elected officials, a feeling notably not shared by Buchanan, Ross Perot, and Ralph Nader, is costing America jobs, Buchanan theorizes, and leading to a de-industrialized service-sector-only economy, an end to American self-sufficiency in favor of a reliance on global corporations, and a looming economic crisis.

Well, here is a comment from Salon on Dowd's editorial this morning. I have to say, she is right on as far as I'm concerned. I feel her pain. This period of time represents something other than brilliance.

"I detest Dowd - I really detest her stupid, sophomoric kewl kid shit that is just as teeth-chalking annoying as the far right bitch goddesses. I really wish they could have just one week of trying to live real life as a single mother with a marginal job - a pregnant single mother."

Bolton in Israel...

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/objects/pages/PrintArticleEn.jhtml?itemNo=476544

Jo, I went to the site you recommended, and the degree was to the point...I have been neglecting somewhat more mundane matters to finish my home redecorating, and I am underestimating my ability to support myself. I need to remember that the work will get done in God's time and in God's way.

So many people I miss from my old group.I drifted away when I started working nights and commuting from that to work was simply too much. Plus, night work left me very tired, too tired to do much during the day until late afternoon. Morgan (still with us as far as I know, but I haven't seen him in 10 years),did my first chart and steered me towards real Astrology, Bill, (now on the other side) also friend, part-time lover and colleague who helped me learn while I taught. Yes, I used to actually teach this stuff while learning it myself. I even still have an application for formal licensure, never sent because of lack of money. I make more now when I'm working, and will send it in and take the test when it comes around again.

I just looked at my U.S. chart. Has anyone noticed that we have a waxing Pluto square Neptune coming? The power struggles over religion is just heating up. Neptune in the Ninth tends to illusion regarding religion, and that illusion is one of perfection and correctness in all matters. The same thing goes with neconnery. The neocons believe that the right ideology alone will create democracy in places around the world with ease (very Neptunian indeed) but transiting Pluto squaring this means that our power assertion cannot be squared with our ideals of perfect order and logical beliefs. `

From my old notebook re John Kerry: Sagitarius is the sign of the aspirant. The quest is more important than a far-off goal that may or may not be reached. As long as there is room to go and grow, Sagittarius feels comfortable. Makes me wonder about Kerry: can a Sagittarius really feel comfortable in a role that is more managerial and more confined than that of a Senator? Clinton, being a Leo, could enjoy the work as an outlet for getting attention and for making the world in his own image. LBJ could see his job as that of rendering needed service, (he was, after all, a Virgo), and Carter could focus on "human rights" and "peace-making" all Libra stuff. But all three signs can easily handle needed details and a certain amount of drudgery.

Pat C

I would say a single mother with a marginal job
and pregnant has only herself to blame. She is
certainly projecting. Maureen Dowd in single, she
was on Charlie Rose a couple of weeks ago and
didn't come across as right wing or bitchy. I
think she is a good writer, and harldly one sided
if one remembers her columns on the Clinton administration.

wv, I have seen Ms Dowd shred both sides, and her timing to me has always been surprising. I usually give her the benefit of the doubt her most of the time but I am suspicious of her.

http://runscared.blogspot.com/2004/09/its-good-to-be-king.html

It's Good to be the King
posted by Jazz at 7:30 PM (Permanent link to this entry.)

Because then, the rules don't apply to you. Or at least it would seem so in Florida. The St. Petersburg Times reports that, against all probability, George W. Bush missed the filing deadline to get on the ballot in Florida. The deadline was Sept. 1, but because that's when the RNC was, they didn't file the papers until Sept. 2. This apparently won't stop the GOP though, and the Democrats are already folding under. (Thanks to Lazerus who dug this out.)

"Florida Democratic Party chairman Scott Maddox said he knew the president's certificate of nomination did not reach the state until Sept. 2, but he said he decided not to make an issue of it."

Not everyone is taking it so calmly, though. Julie Aires of the Green Party says,
"If the Green Party or the Reform Party had not gotten their names in by Sept. 1 and they said, "You missed the deadline,' I don't think we'd have a leg to stand on," she said. "They would have kept us off the ballot on a technicality if they could have."

It seems there's one set of rules for the big and one for the little. I'd really like to be surprised.

Links within...

Shylurker,

The campaign is going well. We've been hearing rumors that the Republicans are getting nervous. They should be. They're going to lose and they don't even know it yet. I'm expecting a major attack piece within the next 2-3 weeks.

Dave

I read Merriman's column every week, and tho I certainly do not share his apparent politics, I have to admit I have found his views useful with respect to the stock market. But this week's column leaves me floored! He is putting huge empahsis on the Libra ingress at the end of this month by Sun, Mercury, Mars and Jupiter. Says it may auger a new period of international cooperation and moves towards peace. Is he nuts? To me, this prediction sounds bizarre. Since I am not a very competent astrologer, I'd appreciate any discussion of the Libra Ingress from Sally, Morgana, and all the rest of you who are. I'm very confused.

Thanks everybody!
Teg

Pat C.

I completely share your assessment of Dowd. I'd like to see HER horoscope, wouldn't you? lol

Teg

Yes Teg I sure would. I'll see if I can find her birth date. If anyone knows, please post it.

http://www.thememoryhole.org/feds/justice_redaction.htm

Justice Department Censors Supreme Court Quote

Offers Smoking Gun Proof That Document Redactions Are Often a Joke

Yep that's right, John Edwards is his name... the name of the candidate for Vice President. He has not disappeared, but he gets very little coverage from the press. The last week is has been giving Cheney a fit... but the media reports only Cheney's threats of terrorist attacks if Kerry is elected.

DailyKos keeps a pretty good running account of state-by-state polls... believing that the EV will be the deciding factor this November... as of course it will be. Kerry is still leading there... and he is gaining in some of the battleground states... and wonders upon wonders he might take some of Dubya's red states from him... his birth state and mine, South Carolina... and his adopted state of North Carolina and maybe one or two others. He's working 'em daily.

Astrologers on this site and elsewhere have indicated Dubya would get a bounce in September, but that October would be Kerry's...

The candidate for president cannot do the job all alone... his base needs to work. Demos and Progressives pride themselves on their ideals... and that's wonderful... but too many went that route in 2000 and now we have the Neocons in control. (Please, I'm not saying that's the reason they're in control! Put down the brickbats please! :-) Citizens of a democracy can't continue to look to a leader to do their job. Part of our responsibility as citizens is to make the media accountable. We are failing to do that... and I truly don't know if it can be done at this point in time...

Kerry's not perfect and mistakes have been made. This is not politics as usual... it has not been so since the Repugs perfected the art of dirty tricks... or, that's my point of view...

While Dems are tearing down their candidate, the Repugs are 'standing by their man/men' --- even as their numerous scandals unravel before their eyes...

We're down to weeks now, not months... folks are anxious... and tense... we can feel it on this board. The planets affect all, individually and collectively... this website, this corner in cyberspace is important to so many of us... it provides comfort and shelter from the many other sites where folks snipe and attack each other.

The coming weeks are not going to get less tense, and the freepers and trolls from both sides will be checking out each others boards, trying to stir things up... tPluto is stirring up things that got pushed under the rug while it was moving Rx... Rove and his minions know 'stuff' is coming and they are reaching down to the bottom of their bag of tricks... we probably ain't seen nuttin' yet!

At the risk of sounding all warm and fuzzy, let's enter the board in peace and accept that not all will agree with what we have to say, but it is safe to say it here. I apologize if I have in any way made anyone feel my remarks were offensive... they were never intended to be so... my nVenus, nMercury, nMars and nChiron all sit huddled together in Cancer in my 11th house... so I am very passionate about home and country... but my nMoon is in Libra so I usually try to see the other person's point of view... but cyberspace is difficult --- without body language or facial expression... it's not always easy to communicate one's attitude...

Didn't mean to take so much space...

Namaste

Pat C.,
Maureen Dowd Birth: January 14, 1952 in Washington, D.C.

Jo,

That's the most eloquent I've heard you on this Board. Very well said. And I, of course, agree with you.

With regards to the media coverage of John Edwards, it's more important to me that he's changing votes State by State, person by person, in all these speeches he's making than it is that he gets a ton of Press. I think many follow the Media and will be swayed by what the collective "they" say and others don't believe a word the Media says and want to make up their own minds. John Edwards, State by State, is helping them make up their minds regardless of what the Media does or doesn't do.

If you can stomach reliving it, check out the awesome article the new issue of Vanity Fair has on the Florida debacle in 2000. Excellent reporting and writing.

Hello, dear Astroworlders,

So often these days I think about WW II, which was a big part of my childhood.

I remember hearing about some Parisians committing suicide when the Germans marched in, and my own very small fierce reaction--that I wouldn't have done that--I would have fought.

Sometimes I think I haven't progressed any during this lifetime, except to, perhaps, overcome some of the foolishness I was taught as a child. If reincarnation brings progress it must be with very small steps indeed.

Anyhow, the point of this post is that whatever happens we have to keep on keeping on--working for fairness, justice, honoring the earth and all fellow creatures.

So many of us (myself included) are so strongly emotionally involved in current events that the emotional current on this board is overwhelming. This is ironic in my case (and perhaps others') because my beliefs are Buddhist and therefore call for detachment--not my long suite although I am Aquarius.

Anyhow, the point of all this rambling is that we are involved for the long haul. If we "win" in November we still have much to do. If we "lose" we still have much to do.

Jonathan, Thank you for your kind remarks... I would like to check out the article... is it online? Do you have a link? I tried to google it up --- but there's tons on this topic of course...

Barbara, meant to tell you when you came on yesterday how glad I am you are safe --- and hope you continue to stay so, with Ivan heading for the panhandle, perhaps there will be just alot of rain in your area?

You're right about the work... it's there regardless, isn't it... sort of like the 'chop wood, carry water' before enlightenment... after? 'chop wood, carry water'... detachment is not easy, is it?

Alec Baldwin on Tina Brown tonite.........wonderfully thoughtful interview. Try to catch the repeat later tonight.

Jo,

The Vanity Fair article is in the newest issue (with Jude Law on the cover) which just hit the news stands this week. I don't know if it would be on-line yet. Not usually one to read Vanity Fair or magazines like it, but was deeply impressed with this article. Really brought back Florida 2000 for me. Also check out Graydon Carter's Message from the Editor in the front of the magazine. He really rips BelzeeBush a new one. :-)

Hi all,

I just started a new thread with a new article. Please check it out.

Nancy

(I just have to get this security code to work!)

Dear Folk,

I happened upon your site a few weeks ago while surfing around political sites. (We--yes I am proud to admit--liberals keep looking for a port in this storm.) I must say I am impressed with the candor and intelligence of the responses. At the same time, I am somewhat intimidated about offering commment, as I am not an astrolger, although I admit to great admiration about the extent of detail and calculation skills of the writers.

So, I have only one question as a naive reader: has anyone done the analysis of Dick Cheney's chart? You all seem to be convinced that Bush will "lose"-in the sense of possibly experiencing the Saturn/Jupiter "curse" (Do I have this right?--I am trying to be precise, but have to admit to ignorance here) even if he wins the election, if not losing the election outright. At the same time, there have also been multiple comments about "uncertainty" surrounding the election and even an "unexpected candidate." It is a horror beyond my worst nightmare that Bush might be elected, but become unable to serve, and that Cheney would become President. Have any of you looked at this possibility? I am in awe of your insight and skill, and wish I had equivalent capability. In any case, I would welcome your comment on this possibility.

Best regards,

Gloria

Welcome, Gloria!

What if Cheney becomes prez, and has a heart attack, thus giving us Hastert as the puppet of the moment? I think we are all beginning to have LSD dreams without the LSD.

Dave, many thanks for responding. Sounds like you're doing great work on that campaign. Many thanks!

Tennessee, the Kepler Astro School is excellent. Oxford in England has some great on-line courses and there is a school in Astralia I've heard good things about. I've done the on-line courses at Oxford and loved them.

Sally, Thanks for the information about Oxford. I will check it out.

Garry, Iam about 40 to 45 miles southwest of Nashville. Spring Hill near Columbia. Moved from Mass about 12 years ago.

Tennessee, also check the series "The Only Way to Learn Astrology" there are about 4 or 5 books in this series and is excellent for the beginners. They are written by Marion March and Joan McEivers. The Australia School is less expensive than Oxford and I understand is as good, so I would check them both out.

Now that Pluto is going direct, it's time to remember what this is all about. Forgive me for being maybe a little too Hallmark cardish, but I have an experience to relate that I can't get through to others.
The point is not to convert the Bushies(like misguided, frustrated missionaries), nor to wait for total devastation to bring them to their knees, but to show them by example so they will want to join us.
The other night I attended a candlelight vigil for the dead in Iraq and it was sublimely beautiful. Oddly enough there was a band concert in the park at the same time playing stiff, upright patriotic music and as we can probably surmise, attended by some right leaning people. The wonderful candle-holders sat in silence and meditation for one whole hour. At one point the mood changed and the little band played a slow, lyrical version of America the Beautiful, and we were all connected. They resumed their triumphant stuff, the concert ended, and all the people passed us by as they were leaving. Some came over mesmerized-- some asked what was going on. They were all quiet and respectful. For me, it was a cosmic moment. I admit I am easily aroused to that.
People will come to the light individually. All we need to do is, you know, keep holding the candle.

Kerry is married to a Republican, essentially. This may be one of the most unsegregated administrations we've seen.

I personally feel Maureen Dowd to be an extremely gifted writer and has the unique ability to delve deeply into her subject matter to gleen the underlying issues/truth. A style I find that keeps me interested and wanting to read more. I understand her new book (can't remember the name, but is out now) will corrolate myth with George W.Bush. She talked briefly about it on an interview on C-Span I saw about 4 weeks ago. Also heard her recently on NPR and was very good. I do not know her political leanings however she did state on the interview that "her sister is the Republican". Perhaps she is Republican, but loathes the current administration as her remarks and comments indicate. I think she comes across in interviews as being moderate/progressive. It would be interesting to see the aspects in her chart that would indicate the ability to penetrate to the truth of the matter. I do hope someone will take the time to look at her birth info. I also think it must be very hard for her to work right next to Wm. Krauthiemer (sp) as he is neo-con, extreme conservative. Additional info. she has a degree in English Literature.

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I agree with you .
http://www.gugu.pl/ wyszukiwarka cenowa
http://www.agdrtv.com/, wow ale nie waw
http://www.agdrtv.com/notebooki/ , camisony nexoo
http://www.lg.agdrtv.com/ , który nie ten lienergee
http://www.toshiba.agdrtv.com/ laptop ale ktomenistecoon
http://www.sony.agdrtv.com/ , a gdzie nim
http://www.samsung.agdrtv.com/ , tam ale nie tu
http://www.siemens.agdrtv.com/ niemiecka marka lae takimotoe
http://www.panasonic.agdrtv.com/ , kiedy kolwiek
http://www.agdrtv.com/kamery_cyfrowe/ , sony whirlpool
http://www.gugu.pl/5/ wózki dziecięce
http://www.agdrtv.com/telewizory_lcd/ , telewizory plazmowe jvc
http://www.agdrtv.com/telewizory_plazmowe/ , hoover pralki
http://www.agdrtv.com/pralki/ , zmywarki promocje
http://www.agdrtv.com/lodowki/ , kuchnie amica
http://www.hp.agdrtv.com/ , a gdzie nim
http://www.eeeby.pl/ wyszukiwarka cenowa
http://www.camcoo.com/ lcd dvd i inne
http://www.gugu.pl/8/ dla dziecka foteliki
http://www.kancelaria.prawna.info/ oki doki mocki pocki
http://www.gugu.pl/5/ wózki dziecięce
http://www.acer.agdrtv.com/ acer notebooki
http://www.fujitsu-siemens.agdrtv.com/ sklep fujitsu siemens laptopy
http://www.gugu.pl/12/ łóżeczka dla dzieci
http://www.whirlpool.agdrtv.com/ pralki i piekarniki whirlpool
http://www.camcoo.net/ camcoo katalogo stonico