Thank you Sally.
A very reassuring read! That was a wise decision to do it immediately.............
PQOP

Woke up this morning very down. Looking at my Kerry/Edwards t-shirt as if it was a shirt from the side that lost. Stepped out of the trench and saw the scorched earth everywhere, the decimation, the death.

Maybe I'm just playing the devil's advocate with myself. Maybe it's coming down...the residue from the Full Moon, the Mercury...

But Sally has been giving it to us from out of both sides of the mouth these past months and maybe I slipped into the other realm yet again.

If Bush wins I think this is the end of our country as we know it. If Bush gets the job anyway, even if Kerry has those few nice planetary indicators, I think we have gone over the top of the hill and are headed on into oblivion.

But...maybe we are anyway.

Thanks for this latest piece, Sally. I think it is one of your best.

After watching and listening to parts of the rethug convention it struck me how this administration has successfully implanted their agenda into the those willing to receive the suggestions. Now, they repeat phrases that seem to cue the audience into a mass hypnosis. In other words, many of the "masses" have drunk the Kool-Aid and now bow to the man behind the curtain.

Like you, Sally, it has been difficult to be dispassionate about what i've heard and read. Collectively we are still no closer to uncovering the power which appointed the "man behind the curtain." That is what concerns me for the future. For it is, perhaps, the Illuminati (et al) who will continue to pull the strings until they are exposed.

By the way, excellent article.

karen

Thank you, Sally. I feel like I'm in that car--are we there yet?--and you just rolled down the window and let in a breath of fresh air.

Everybody, here is a great link--if it doesn't work just go to Google or some other search engine and search for Rockridge Institute.

>http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2003/10/27_lakoff.shtml

George Lakoff is a linguist who explains how this Jim Jones Kool-Aid is made and what we can do about it.

Sally, what a wonderfully straightforward article for those of us who have little indepth knowledge. Thank You So Much! And I completely agree just based on where we stand today and my own intuition, we are in for a bumpy ride the next four years whoever is elected. So much has been set in motion in this country and around the world that it would take a world wide tsumani to stop the energy explosions and implosions coming that create dramatic changes affecting all of us. Again, thanks for a wonderful article.

I don't understand this. The Republican Convention happens, they say a lot of the things we knew they would say, everybody in the Garden cheers, and suddenly people who hate Bush are morose and counting Kerry out? What the ... ? Let's get a grip and remember that the Convention is just four days out of the campaign. And it's already struggling for coverage against Frances and Kerry's speech! I'm confident that the warnings we've had from our very talented astrologers about this September period are correct and I'm not going to freak out and put away my Kerry-Edwards t-shirt just yet. And when October comes and Kerry begins picking up steam, I'll nod my head and say "Sally and Nancy and Morgana and Isabelle and Chas and Vis and all those others I can't remember" said so.

It is important, though, to step back and sometimes look at this not day-by-day, but week by week. SOOOOOOOO much can change in politics in a week. Trust that it will and Kerry will be sitting in a much stronger position come October (not that he isn't right now, but we just don't hear about from Those Who Claim To Report The "News").

Don't mean to sound harsh. The fact that I visit this site several times during the day should be a testament to my respect and affection for y'all. :-)

I'm feeling good this morning. Kerry's counter-speech got more airtime in my morning drive radio than Bush's original speech. To my ears, they won this news cycle.

Mercury and Pluto going direct yesterday should have given them the impetus to straighten out their message. But they're still tangled up with the inadequacy of their messenger.

if Canada was voting....

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/Page/document/polls/pollResults?vote=34961&id=27876&pollid=27876&answerid=34961&poll=GAMFront&save=_save27876&show_vote_always=no&hub=Front&subhub=VoteResult

Sally, thank you. You touched on something I was thinking about after listening to Eric Alterman on CSPAN this morning. The people who are rabid republicans, the ones that believe in GWB no matter what, aren't going away. There as fundamental as the Muslims we are fighing are. Something big would have to happen to change them, and I honestly don't know what that could be. Plus, the pandering cable media is just bizarre. They are lauding this convention of hate as "superlative, wonderful, great, on message, yadayadayada......."

Still, if Bush wins, well, we will see. There are some wonderful articles written in the Washington Monthly discussing that very fact. This will not be a lame duck president, more like a crippled one. If he makes it that is. It could be only a matter of time. Look, a father imolated himself in a military van at the news of his son's death in Iraq. You take that energy to another level (T Jupiter trine USA Pluto- T Saturn opp) and well, I prefer to wait and see what happens.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2004/0409.bushforum.html

Sally what a tremendous article! I always love your work and I am looking forward to your up coming article as well.

Old Granny what I have learned over these few short years since Bush took office is that my country as I belived it to be, was not a reality and may be never have been. The end of our country as I thought I knew it to be is long gone. It's now up to us to make it what it should be and not what it is now.

Okay I gotta find my second cup of coffee..

TGIF!

It is also important to look at the people around the candidates and their charts/transits. Dick Cheney for example has the Sun opposed his Natal Saturn on November 1, not the greatest time for career advancement in my opinion. Also on November 1 -- Uranus transiting his 7th house-not the most stable period for partnerships or alliances of any kind. Perhaps a sudden break up of this dangerous duo??? God willing, that is how it will play out.

I'd be curious to see more articles about the charts of the VP candidates, as well as Theresa Heinz Kerry, Laura Bush and others in the administration and their respective campaign people that may shed more light on the election outcome...

Brought no. one grandson home yesterday... last night, the youngest came into my room, looked at me solemnly, fixated on my Kerry/Edwards button, and said "have you heard the news, Grandma? I'm afraid I've got bad news?" I of course didn't have a clue what he was referring to, and I shook my head no... he con't, now his dark brown eyes misting over... "You know that Republican ...vention," and his head started leaning as he searched for his words, and I said "convention?" ... "Yes, the Convention, grandma... they said Bush is winning... it's all over the news, grandma, Bush is winning." At this point, he was almost crying, and I sat him down and immediately thought 'how do I explain to this bright child that one can't trust the news?' So, instead I simply told him that the Republicans had rec'd a lot of publicity and the news people were cheering, just as they had when Kerry and the Dems had their convention. But he wasn't buying it. He had been duped... by the media. Well, he's eight years old...

Powerful tool, that electronic box... suggested to my son-in-law that in addition to the filters he applies to sex and violence for the chidren's viewing, he might want to add propaganda...

Good article Sally... thanks for the effort in getting it to us so quickly. More importantly, thanks for looking at the 'basics' and for the reminder that we do face tough times no matter the winner in November.

Namaste

CNN now wants to know if you think Smirky made a case for having a second term.

http://www.cnn.com/

I forgot to include the new moon stuff happening on Sept 14th in my above post. The 22 Virgo Sun, Moon, Mars knocking into USA Neptune, Mars square. Morgana, I can't wait for your take on this one.

Thanks Shylurker, when you obsessively study Astrology as long as I have, you start to see that all the astro never really takes away from the basic chart, and you can really find your answers in that basic chart. I have also found if you look at enough charts, enough transits, progressions etc to that chart, you can find any answer you want or are looking for from a grouping of multiply charts or the variety of astrological data. When one is confused, go to the bottom line always.

If the Bush/Kerry Acceptance Charts are used, or even the nomination charts that someone mentioned, Bush loses.

Thank You Sally. This was a wonderful way to wisk away the vibes from this past week

Sally, your bottom line is/was very much appreciated. Thanks for the objectivity.

You know I use to wear a fine golden chain around my neck on which hung a teal blue bead, a small, finely carved golden cross, a small golden hand, a small, finely carved Menorah, and a tiny rutilated crystal. For me it was a personal statement and comfort of acceptance and diversity of spirit practiced here on our earth. I always greeted trees with a touch when I passed close to them, which of course was one of so many greetings I exchanged with earth's living beings. I thought of crosses as a symbol of someone who chose to practice their life with some degree of depth, as were all the other symbols. I knew of course that there were all too many people who used these symbols as signs of exclusivity, but they of course were on the fringe, and on a path which I was sure would eventually bring them back to balance. After all, this is a school for all of us to learn to be whole, as we are destined to become, and extremes are a stage of growth for many people.

Now, these symbols are tinged with danger. Divine violence, as the pendulum is reaching the extreme of zealotry, allows only one symbol of "belief" rather than "spirituality". The fringe has risen and the result of any victory, is imbalance, strife, cruelty, and destruction of creativity.

France in a bold move banned headscarves in their country. Zealots in the middle east abducted, AGAIN, French citizens demanding that the French government relent and allow the laws of Islam to prevail in the French culture. Didn't happen. All the cultures of France came together and agreed that all citizens of all religions were "French" and the culture had not required women to wear such scarves and it would not now. The Muslims said that the abductors held all the French people captive by their vile act of taking the freedom of any of their citizens, and any overt requirement of religious symbolism was not friendly or French.

I no longer wear a cross. It has become a symbol of intolerance, small mindedness, and covert corptocracy. I revert instead back to the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. I resonate with the spirit of all the French citizens, and yearn for public schools to improve so the need for charter schools may fade into the dustbin of history.

I still wear the blue bead, and a tiny diamond heart, but on some days I tuck it into my clothes so no one can judge it's origins. I am told it is zionist, but who knew? It was a gift from my dearest friend, long gone on now, and the color vibrates beauty.

May the days of intolerance end immediately. May their memory be diminished to oblivion.

Kerry strikes back....

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/printer_090404Z.shtml

Clinton is in a NY hospital with chest pains.

He is schuled for quadruple bypass.

Morgana

This country has been going downhill since
Nov. 22, l963 - it has all been illusion since
then...

I think it would be interesting to run a chart for the Jonestown massacre on Nov 18 of 1978 in Guyana. What energy are we picking up on in the "koolaid" remarks? Are we sensing something? The moon was in cancer that day, with mercury, neptune conjuncting mars in middle Sagittarius, sexiteling pluto in libra and squaring saturn in virgo...mars made an exact sqare to saturn. Which Shade posted:
I forgot to include the new moon stuff happening on Sept 14th in my above post. The 22 Virgo Sun, Moon, Mars knocking into USA Neptune, Mars square. Morgana, I can't wait for your take on this one.
Posted by: Shade on September 3, 2004 04:18 PM

914 people bought that poisonous rhetoric....and more died because the hatred including shooting to death the congressman Leo J. Ryan and several reporters and photograhers from the media. CA State Sen. Jackie Speier (I know her, I've seen her mangled arms) survived while shot 5 times and laid on that tarmac for 24 hours waiting for help. Are conditions right for this kind of violence spawned by hatred and fear to errupt again, or was 9/11 the equivelant?

not sure what is happening with my computer...letters are getting dropped, my spelling is warped....this has been happening since the same time Chas posted that he was having the same trouble....anyway, sorry ...I look at that and say, "sqare"? where's my "u"?
oh well, you get the gist of it...

Sally, I really appreciate the clarity and organized comparative analysis of your article...you've cut through the haze. When I read the posts, I try to get a feeling for what is being said as well as what I think of as "the unspoken" which hasn't surfaced....I do think that middle Sept is on our minds collectively....those koolaid references are quite on our minds!

My uncle sent me a ton of NY Times articles today, plus Alternet has a ton more....collectively, the RNC convention has opened Pandora's box....

Pat C.....what a beautifully stated piece....you have written a beautiful statement .... I hope you don't mind, I am sending it and this URL to my friend Pat M. who wears many things around her neck and who is Jewish and a flower essence practitioner here in SF Bay Area....I know she will appreciate this also. Profound statement!

Judi,

A Pandora's Box? Hmmmm ... do tell! :-)

Oh my god, no wonder I thought Clinton looked tired when I saw him on the Daily Show....well, he is now into his Saturn return, and he must have just bottomed himself out on that book tour....

Dailykos has a thread if you want to send comments to President Clinton and the family. He apparently suffered a heard attack a little after midnight last night?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/9/3/123927/7934

Namaste

Jonathan, the lid is off, the koolaid is sitting in the box, the gloves are off, and for the next 2 months we are in the hunting season. The lid is the lid of sanity.....ps, I met a woman yesterday at a friend's houseboat in Sausalito. We are all out of work, and I mentioned that you had said a few threads back that if Bush won, you were moving to Paris (I might try a houseboat community like this one!)....and she said, EVERYBODY is moving away...Mexico, Australia, Canada....some because there is no money and no work, others because they can't stand living in this hell of Saurin. (did I get the name right?)

I get these regular posts form the IRC Communications
The Bush administration’s “war on terrorism” reflects a major failure of leadership and makes Americans more vulnerable rather than more secure. The administration has chosen a path to combat terrorism that has weakened multilateral institutions and squandered international goodwill. Not only has Bush failed to support effective reconstruction in Afghanistan, but his war and occupation in Iraq have made the United States more vulnerable and have opened a new front and a recruiting tool for terrorists while diverting resources from essential homeland security efforts. In short, Washington’s approach to homeland security fails to address key vulnerabilities,

http://64.4.16.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=18b0b976d2c616e0ff61612ac864e4f0&lat=1094230399&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2efpif%2eorg%2fpapers%2f04terror%2findex%2ehtm

I plan to run some copies of this & leave them around town for people to pick up!
Has anyone heard from Bhakti? I hope she hasn't been arrested in NY!!!!! I read they were doing indiscriminate dragnets, throwing shoppers, tourists etc. into lockup on pier 53
PQOP

Judi,

I still believe that there will, at some point in the next 10 years, be some sort of exodus out of America in search of better jobs that actually pay a decent living wage and can afford something akin to a better life. And the European Union is where those jobs will be found.

I'm still moving to Paris at some point in my life, though. I absolutely and with all my heart just love, love, LOVE that place. :-)

a few words from the 'enlightened' people of
Georgia - the New York of the South...

http://www.ajc.com/today/content/epaper/editions/today/opinion_14834163c6bae00a10b2.html

I had a quintuple bypass 7 years ago - no sweat,
the hard part is healing the leg where they took
the vein out. Two months later I had a burst
appendix, and nearly died, much worse. Everything
is still working.

Pat C.,
Really lovely piece on the 'symbols'... thanks for sharing that with us... as you mention, many 'symbols' have been highjacked by zealots and given meaning. Actually, once that happens, the 'symbol' becomes a 'sign' ---

As Jung tells us: a symbol must not have any definition at all... it has many levels of meaning, not just one obvious one, and should represent a concept which is initially difficult to grasp intellectually in the full scope of its meaning - like a work of art which defies any simple description of all its nuances. (if you can define it precisely, it may have changed from a symbol to a sign).

Symbols are ideas. whenever we use one we are pointing to the idea behind that symbol... ‘the sign is always less than the concept it represents, while a symbol always stands for something more than its obvious and immediate meaning.’
- dr. carl g. jung, ‘man and his symbols’, 1964

Symbols are fascinating, because they stir your imagination and intuition to help you discover new meanings and insights... they invite you to explore the possibilities, and force you to go
beyond limited definitions and literal thinking if you want to understand the concepts they represent.

During the RNC theatrics, one could see the 'pulpit' with the 'hidden' cross... the 'pugs have highjacked this 'symbol' and turned it into a 'sign'...

The basic shape of a cross, has since prehistoric times been employed in almost every culture throughout the world and all the roughly similar shapes of cross symbols have wildly different meanings... the cross variously symbolised health, fertility, life, immortality, the union of heaven and earth, spirit and matter, the sun, the stars... it is seen as world centre and
a cosmic axis, the cross represents the human form, with its four cardinal points it can be mapped to fourfold systems: the four directions: north, south, east, and west; the 4 seasons; the four elements; the four winds...

One of the most used archetypes, the cross stems from the deepest collective levels of the human psyche. On a deeper level of interpretation
(and maybe it’s the most correct interpretation),
cross symbols have a commonality that point to a kind of significance that is truly transcendental:
because of the intersection of its two lines,
the cross is ‘nothing else’ than a coordinate -
used to represent the location of the point in the plane or space... a universal symbol of (human) existence, here and now!

Astrology?

[Carl Jung's thoughts, not mine...]

Namaste

Wv, were you refering to this? I don't see a post about here yet.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=615&u=/nm/20040903/pl_nm/people_clinton_dc&printer=1

Clinton in NY Hospital for Heart Surgery

10 minutes ago

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Former President Bill Clinton (news - web
sites) has checked into a New York hospital and will undergo heart
bypass surgery, his office said on Friday.

Pentagon insider claims FBI after neocons...

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/printer_090404Y.shtml

Ok, sorry, I didn't go back far enough.

Shade

It was on KOS

Judi, I'm so glad you liked it. Please feel free to send it to your friend.

I woke this morning like others here feeling in an altered state, and profoundly quiet and sad. There is something in the energy.

I really love Bill Clinton. The psychic Nancy Tappe (sp?) prior to the election of Bush 1 told me that he would be a one term President and that he would take us to war. After him, she said, we would experience the greatest President ever, bar none, and he would be a two term President, but he would have a very hard time staying in Office.

IMHO, she was oh so correct.

Jo

I don't know whether it is a symbol or a sign
but I fly the "One world" flag - the planet as
seen from outer space. To me it is a statement.

wv, (((hug)))! What a strong person you are to say "no sweat" and more power to you! Stay well now!

Jo, what a beautiful post! I did some study on symbols years ago, and all the symbols we see today are actually very very old. All too may of them have become "signs" for religions. Sigh. The six pointed star is older than the Hebrew religion, but was adopted by them to represent their group. Early native Americans have a very old story about the six pointed star cloud people who came and taught them how to live.

We are of one mind.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/03/opinion/03krugman.html?pagewanted=print&position=

Thanks for the hug - I love 'em, I even hug trees!

I should have included the meaning of the six pointed star as I know it, which is actually two triangles, meaning as above so below.

Yes! Trees are very grounding!

When I was speaking to my ex who works in Manhattan Wed night he kept saying, something bad is going to happen here in NYC, I can feel it....well, anyway, the bad was already there, and the sad happened to Clinton, but I know he is getting the absolutely best care. Clinton has Saturn as his least aspected planet (Rob Couteau) and he has Saturn in 2 deg. Leo....so Saturn return began with a bang. What he said on the Daily Show was interesting too...he mentioned that with the history of his family's health he didn't know how long he would be around....and someone else mentioned that depression comes in the aftermath of this surgery and lasts about a year....a good description of this situation, I think, for him.

Pat C....when I first saw Bill Clinton on tv during the debates in Feb of 1991 I saw a golden aura around him....it blew me away, I didn't even know who he was, but I knew RIGHT THEN that he would be president, and be elected twice. Ridiculed, I was. Right, I was....is Nancy Tappe still around to get feedback from?

Interesting how Bushie's post-convention thunder is being somewhat overshadowed by Bill Clinton's hospitalization and the storm warning in Florida (an important state in the election).

And then there is this:
A swarm of locusts seen in the air just outside of the city of Dakar, Senegal on Wednesday, Sept. 1, 2004. The United Nations (news - web sites) Food and Agriculture Organization (news - web sites) warned last week that the locust swarms infesting countries from Mauritania to Chad could develop into a full-scale plague without additional foreign aid.

Isn't this quite biblical?

Lawrence,
Indeed it is interesting...

WV:
re the Canadian voters voting overwhelmingly in a poll for Nadar....isn't that a little like voting for Lucy after she's pulled the football away from Charlie Brown for the umpteenth time?

Judi,
locusts simply are...! every 9 years, there are even more... nothing biblical about it, imho

And now to indulge in some comic relief from all the tears....from Molly Ivins
Loved the Schwarzenegger speech and apologize again for having accidentally misappropriated the wonderful line of Clive James', the Australian journalist: "He looks like a condom stuffed with walnuts."

http://www.alternet.org/columnists/story/19760/

Which ticket impresses you most? Go vote--right now it's 50/50.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3096434/

I figure the swarm of locusts come from Pat Robertson's labortories. When I was in High School there was first a swarm of grasshoppers and then a swarm of locusts wiping out all the crops that summer. Lots of talk then about the locusts in the bible, course I lived in the Bible Belt and they have been looking for the end times since way before I was born.

Clinton's chart looks like a bad day and couple of months for him and Elvis could leave the building, he's been pretty hurt the last several years, even though the people have rewarded him with an approval rating since he left office of 62 percent,and this should send him at least up to 80 or 90 percent. But there have been constant jabs from the people he wanted to value and respect him and they just don't let up. Some Republican Representative (can't remember his name) said on Fox that he of course wished Clinton well, but maybe his chest pains were brought on by the Republican Convention being such a success.

Just the very little I watched of the convention, I would say that man has already had too much Kool-Aid laced with LSD. Why Zell Miller had the best speech and he is insane.

Comedy Central had a bit on Zell last night with a visit from John McCain right after and John McCain was trying to distance himself from him, it was also reported that Zell and his wife were uninvited from the Bush Box to watch GWB's speech.

I believe in 1992 Bill pushed a Bush off the front page and he managed to do the same 12 years later.

I do believe Nancy Tappe is still around, but sadly I haven't talked with her for some time. She is a very lovely person, and very hard working.

"THEY" say the satanic forces work with a tiny grain of truth and spin their web of lies from the tiny grain, confusing the weak minded.

"A mind is a terrible thing to waste."

Oooh, oooh, that smell. Can't you smell that awful smell?

Here is a wonderful list of facts, chockful of data.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=557746

http://toostupidtobepresident.com/shockwave/emperorapprentice.htm

http://www.toostupidtobepresident.com/shockwave/pigeonhawks.htm

Sally, could you please tell me the correct time to use. I used 9:10 pm EST and got about 27 deg of Aries rising. Sorry--I'm talking about Smirky's acceptance. Also, I'm using the software over at Astrodienst. Many thanks for helping me get this chart corrected. I do want to study it, but only the accurate one.

Shylurker, it's 10:10 for Bush and 10:22 for Kerry (PM of course EDT

Many thanks, Sally.

Shylurker, wouldn't you say that if a political party had as lack-luster a convention as the Republicans, with even the mainstream media attempting to infuse some interest or life by supporting another political party, like they did the Dems from time to time would send freepers like fruit flies today. I mean Shylurker, something is amiss for this administration when even Scarborugh of MSNBC is shifting slightly to the middle.

Sally,

Add to that the fact that Bush's speech is quickly becoming Bottom of the Hour news after Hurricane Frances, the Russian hostage crisis and now Clinton's heart surgery, and the Republicans are running scared that they won't get any "bounce"! When the first question CNN asks Bush's Campaign Manager is about Clinton's surgery, all is not right in BushVille. And certainly not what they had anticipated the day after his "Big Speech." Not like I'm shedding a tear for them or anything. I just think it's Karma with a capital K coming around to bite them all on the keester. :-)

Sad but true, Rich is the best writer at the
NYTimes.....it's going to be mean...

http://www.iht.com/bin/print.php?file=537190.html

I whole-heartedly agree, Sally. You wrote it not too long ago, about the tide quickly turning. The mental image that evoked is still very fresh in my mind. I hope you checked the list I posted (from Graydon Carter, ed of Vanity Fair mag). I have a sense of urgency about getting this kind of info out there again and again and again. They have been playing the entire American populace for idiots. Their base does consist of idiots, and the sooner the larger population realizes they've been played as though they are idiots, the sooner we can set this thing aright again. Thanks for "listening" to my diatribe about the need to unite Our Tribe of Patriots.

As if you hadn't already guessed, I am firmly convinced that (paraphrasing here) knowing the truth will set you free. The point is to get the truth out there so we can counter (apologies to Twain) the lies, damned lies and freeper lies that beset us.

ooops! I meant the story was sad but true -
I think Rich is the best writer at the NYT
followed by Krugman and Dowd....

It's not depression after heart surgery, it is
a total lack of energy, caused by the anesthesia
that takes years to clear your system.

Sally, as always an excellent article.

Jonathan and gang, brace yourselves, Bush has a double digit lead over Kerry, according to the new TIMES polls.

But, Sally, Nancy, Morgana and the other astrologers all said this would happen and we'd have to bide our time until end of Sept.

We're biding.

About the RNC--when you preach to the choir, the choir will always shout "amen" -- doesn't mean you'll have the same success preaching on the corner.

When Bill Clinton was on The Daily Show recently I thought he looked ill. Those big guys are more susceptible to heart trouble, I think. I'm going to send a small contribution to our Florida Democratic Candidate for Senator, Betty Castor, in Clinton's honor. (Our Democratic Senator Bob Graham is retiring.)

Judi

When I posted that poll this morning Kerry was
leading at 61%

Now it is Bush 12, Kerry 33, Nader 55

This would make Roxanne very happy - are you
lurking Roxanne???

Times, double-digit? in their dreams! some kind of outlier if it is the case... Dailykos has a list of 7-8 polls and they are all within 2-3 points, indicating a 'close' race... as they always state...

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/9/3/14038/24108

Barbara,

Your donation is a great idea. I'll do the same here in NYC for Charles Schumer, who's up for re-election.

As for the TIMES poll, looking at the 20 or so Battleground States, Kerry is still polling ahead. :-)

Wv, you hug trees? I used to go about doing that as a kid. I had learned how old they were and it just fascinated me at 9 yrs, that I could look at something over a hundred years old and it was still alive. Now I like to put my hand on them and just sense their energy. Glad you survived the appendix thing and the bypass. Should have said that up post, but have been in a strange place today.

Frances has me all jittery and I am up in MI. It is like watching a coming terrorist attack that you know is going to happen and you cannot stop it. Message to GWB & Co? It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature. Then my crazy head goes, "remember those old Donald O'Connor Francis movies with the talking donkey?" Or maybe it was a mule, close enough. My bad........

If anyone is brave enough to wade thru some hardcore sewage, read Grover Norquist's article on a Bush victory from the earlier Washington Monthly link. This shows you what their real agenda is. If nothing else, you get the echoes of Karl Rove, et al. Fair warning though, you may not want to go there. However, you can also see how the agenda is seriously flawed.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2004/0409.norquist.html

TIME probably did this poll outside of Madison
Square Gardens the past couple of nights....

http://www.time.com/time/press_releases/article/0,8599,692562,00.html

Jonathan, wv, and every one else watching polls:

"To support his claim that New Hampshire "could be bad [for Senator John Kerry] because they do know so much about him," CNN Boston bureau chief Dan Lothian cited the opinion of just one New Hampshire voter: a delegate on the floor of the Republican National Convention."
http://mediamatters.org/items/200409030006

The poll results I really want to see are the ones KKKKarl has done in secret. Bet those are doozies!

Here are the contacts for Time Poll WV posted above... I'm not going to pay l.d. costs to talk to these folks but in any of you in the NY area feel inclined, help yourself. I think the pollsters were partying when they asked the questions! Double-digit my eye! There's only one question of value in a poll of this nature: if the election were today, for whom would you vote. Period.

Contacts:
Ty Trippet, 212-522-3640
Jennifer Zawadzinski, 212-522-9046

Namaste

NPR's Growing Clout Alarms Member Stations
By LYNETTE CLEMETSON

Published: August 30, 2004

With a newly robust endowment burning holes in its not-for-profit pockets, National Public Radio is in the midst of a major expansion. But NPR's ambition has stirred anxiety within the public radio system over how to preserve the character and financial viability of local stations in the ever larger shadow of the national production service they created more than 30 years ago as a modest support operation.

NPR, a member organization governed in part by local stations, is pumping $15 million into its news division over the next three years, using interest from a recent bequest of more than $236 million from Joan B. Kroc, the widow of Ray A. Kroc of McDonald's. NPR executives have touted the expansion as unmatched in a time of media cutbacks and consolidations.

But at a meeting earlier this month in Los Angeles between NPR executives and station managers from the top 25 radio markets to discuss cultivating future major gifts, the NPR team faced a flurry of pointed questions about its long-term intentions.

http://scoop.agonist.org/story/2004/8/30/93835/8420

Jo,

Thanks for the contact info, but I'd rather not waste my time talking to people who have their own agenda when releasing poll numbers which are misleading at best. Or just plain dishonest. It'll be interesting, though, when Bush & Co. brag about these numbers over the next week or so only to have them absolutely implode and bottom-out come late September and early October. Kind of feeds into our collective suspicion that Bush loses steam and Kerry gains ground come that time, and "plummeting" poll numbers would certainly support that in the Public's Mind. "Public's Mind" ... is that what people mean by an oxymoron? :-)

Very strong instincts of mine say that Kerry will easily get about 340 electoral votes and that means Kerry WILL win in Nov'04. It is not going to
be close like in 2000 nor a landslide. But Kerry WILL WIN convincingly by 340 to 198 at least.Kerry
will wrest 4 or 5 states which Gore didn't last time. I may add my instincts are very reliable. Debates will sink shrub for certain.

In the on going controversy about the charts and predicting the election the reason I made such a fuss on Wednesday evening about the nomination chart is I believe as this chart is an elective chart ie a moment when an enterprise is undertaken it can be judged by the rules of elective astrology.

Why is that important? It is importand because we have here a potential smoking gun as to how effective the repubs canidate is going to be in this coming political campaign.

The only way we know the truth from the acceptance charts is by comparing them and I will agree that Kerrys looks stronger than the Bush chart last night but that is still my subjective judgement and I could be wrong.
But the nomination chart has an invalid ascendent and by the rules of elective astrology that means the enterprise that has been undertaken at the time the chart was erected for will fail to achieve the result desired.This is not a subjective interpetation it is simply follwoing the rules of this branch of astrology.
The next question is of course.... but how good or how accurate are these rules?.I admit in my practice not that many invalid ascendents come up though I do know from charts done for myself when they have I did not get what I wanted.
But we have Barbara Watters word on this matter and she was good, a legend in her time, the one that predicted that neither Nixon or Agnew would finish their terms becuase they were inauguarated with an invalid ascendent.

It might also be noted only two presidents from Kenndy on have been inaugurated with invalid ascendents Kennedy in 1961 and Nixon in 1973 and neither finished their terms of office which is exactly what an invalid ascendent should indicate.
About the only counter argument I can make against saying that the Rpubs nomination chart indicates Bush will loose by the rules of elective astrolgoy is that this chart does not matter since we already knew Bush was going to run.
I dont know what Barbara Watters would say to that line of thinking but I think she would disregard it and stick to her methodology which I heard her state clearly about the invalid ascendent on NPR in 1974 when asked if she was still sticking by her precdcition that Nixon would leave office before the end of his term.
She did say at that time she was only right with her political predictions about 80% of the time but not every chart has something so obvious as an invalid ascendent and thus making it a no brainer as to the out come of the enterprise undertaken.

In my own heart I know that if Kerry had gotton a chart like the Repubs nomination chart I would be sick at heart and figure that anything else that came along would not be able to save the cause.

On another note if any of you can find her book,
Horary astrology and the Judgement of events, it is a great read.I have plowed thru both volumes of William Lillys ,Christian Astrology, and is good as it is it was still a lot of work compared to the hoary book by Watters.

Hoary is quite useful. Next time you loose something, erect a chart and the chart will tell you were it is.

Next time you wonder if you should junk your car, erect a chart for the time you raised a question and you will have the answer.

Alas it sounds simple but it is harder then you think. Our univese was not designed so as to give up knowledge of that sort easily.

I have, however, used it quite a few times when I thought I had met that special someone and found it quite useful in abuseing my inflated notions of just how special that someone was.

Still looking.

Thanks for the nice article, Sally. I do appreciate your effort at objectivity, difficult though it may be. How awful it must be to have the powers of divination, or clarity of insight, only to see disaster down the road!

I'm pondering the day's events: as a monstrous hurricane approaches Florida, the nation's attention turns away from the convention, to get back to reality. I read on Yahoo news that many people are leaving to focus on their homes and the devastation that's to follow.

Several people said they're weren't going to watch Bush's speech.

Maybe this is a wake-up call for many of these deluded freepers: disaster is knocking in the guise of a hurricane.

This is a good time for them to focus on reality, rather than their strange delusions. I don't mean that the hurricane is a good thing; it's just that I wonder about their perception of reality.

I have also read that storms, earthquakes and other natural disasters are not "acts of God" but actually massive disturbances in general vibrations. If that's true, we are reaping a bitter harvest because hurricane Charley caused an enormous amount of damage and this one promises to be much worse.

WV, I agree, Frank Rich is the best editorial writer at the NY Times and usually pretty funny. He was so funny in this article and I hope the Kerry camp read it. I have this feeling that authenticity is going to save the day for the Dems. People feel that, hear that and respond.

Janet, thanks for the heads up on the poll but based on some of the others I've seen I wonder if you think this one is valid? How are you surviving in NY? Is it good to have them gone? Ted Koppel said the security was obsessive and he had never seen it anywhere in the world not even during wars.

Cliss, I have read the same thing and from a physics point of view I think that concept has more than a little truth in it. It's going to be a wild ride. Bill Clinton's problems are pretty interesting because with his Mars/Neptune/Venus conjunction in the 1st house he absorbs energy around him and right now I absolutely don't know anyone anywhere who isn't sad or testy and depression is anger turned inward. Right now there is a lot of festering anger, a lot just waiting to erupt, from that standpoint Frances is doing us all a favor.

There are lies, damned lies, and Ahhhhhnold lies:

"Recalling that the Soviets once occupied part of Austria in the aftermath of World War II, Schwarzenegger told the convention on Tuesday: "I saw tanks in the streets. I saw communism with my own eyes."

"Historians, however, are questioning Schwarzenegger's version of postwar history -- if not his enduring popularity among Austrians who admire him for rising from a penniless immigrant to the highest official in America's most populous state.

'"It's a fact -- as a child he could not have seen a Soviet tank in Styria," the southeastern province where Schwarzenegger was born and raised, historian Stefan Karner told the Vienna newspaper Kurier.

"Schwarzenegger, now a naturalized U.S. citizen, was born on July 30, 1947, when Styria and the neighboring province of Carinthia belonged to the British zone. At the time, postwar Austria was occupied by the four wartime allies, which also included the United States, the Soviet Union and France."

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/09/03/schwarzenegger.ap/index.html

This is one recent active duty Marine that is voting for Kerry.
=================================================================
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/election/article/...

Two enormous blue eyes - eyes that had looked through the scope of a rifle and seen the devastation of death and war - stared at the president of the United States on television and clouded over with doubt.

"I don't like how he makes it seem that anyone who opposes him is just going to screw things up, like if you're not with him, you're against him," said Tim Slater, 22, a former Marine sergeant, watching President Bush perform his acceptance speech Thursday night. "He sounds like he wants you to follow him blindly, but that's not what this country is about. You're supposed to be educated and learn stuff and think for yourself."

"He sounds like he wants to run the world; his job is to run the country," said Slater, his jaw set. "Look at the way the rest of the world is looking at us; they look at us as foreign aggressors, like we're bullying the world."

"You have to look at it from the Iraqis' perspective. We invaded their homeland and killed thousands of civilians. And now we act surprised that they're fighting us. A lot of those people, they aren't al-Qaida, they aren't terrorists. They're just avenging their family members who were killed.

...more

Sally, first, you are so right. There really is an air a heavy sense of sadness/hostility/depression in the air

Regarding the new Times polls, the only polls I actually believe are the ones on Nov. 2. And, with how "fishy" voting results have become, I might be questioning those.

During the RNC pig fest, this city felt and looked like it was under siege. Where I am (across from the UN and walking distance to the convention area), all day long I kept hearing helicopters flying over and sometimes hovering in the area for a while. Heck, I look out my window and see gun boat on the East River. (A sample of what the "liberated" citizens of Iraq might be experiencing.)

Many of us are glad, glad to see the repugs leave. The city feels lighter.

One more positive thing: NYC was fined $470,000 ( a thousand dollars for each of the 470 protesters unlawfull kept for 60 hours in horrid conditions) because our rethug mayor allowed the police dept to drag its feet with the paperwork for these protesters.

And while we're on the subject, Ahhhhhnold is right down there with the worst of 'em:

"Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger's ambitious plan to reorganize almost every aspect of state government was influenced significantly by oil and gas giant ChevronTexaco Corp., which managed to shape such key recommendations as the removal of restrictions on oil refineries."

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/040902/schwarzenegger_chevron_8.html

Oops! I posted this on the wrong article, so sorry about that!

Sally, wonderful article, I printed it out for my old Mom (80) in Georgia and mailed it to her. She is a die-hard Democrat, while my Dad (deceased now) was a right-wing nutcase, but a kind and generous man, but we had plenty of run-ins over the last election. I wonder sometimes what my Dad would tell me now that he's been on the other side for 6 months. Too bad we don't understand communication with our loved ones once they pass. I dream of him and try to remember but it always leaves me once I'm up and running. I've decided to keep a notepaper and pencil next to me from now on upon awakening.

The news about Bill Clinton has me very worried about him. I'm sure he'll be fine, he is in good hands. But we don't need to lose him now. He had promised Kerry that he would stump for him over the next months and I'm sure there is a bit of depression over this at the Kerry camp. Bless him and keep him safe is what I keep telling the spirits.

Over at DU they are saying that in front of a crowd, Bush (and I don't remember the exact words) told his supporters to pray that Clinton would be well and recover, and the crowd booed. Bush apparently did nothing to stop it.

A good sight for the latest forecast material and discussion from NHC can be found here.http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/

Kind of depressed about Clinton.repub convention enough to give all of us cardiac arest.

Did anyone actually take any that RNC stuff seriously over there? That is NOT a serious political party. How many insane/ignorant/plain stupid people have you got?

Fortunately, I haven't had to endure to much of it but Ahhhnold's speech was just plain sh#t! Doesn't he realise his movies are crap, he can't act and a worse politician. My compatriot got it right - condom full of walnuts indeed!

McCain losing ALL credibility(go see the film!) and then....... Frank Sinatra?????????

If that really is the best the Republicans can come up with I really think it could be a 'Bluewash' come November.

*******************************************

I don't know if any of you saw the reports over here about Michael Howard(Conservative Party leader) being told in no uncertain terms he was not welcome in the WH for criticising Blair. GWB has now isolated himself from both sides of British politics as Blair has begun to distance himself as well. The govt agenda over here has been focused on domestic issues for several months and Blair has been keeping very quiet (except for campaigning for the 2012 Olympics).

Pretty soon Tony will have no friends left. John Howard (Oz PM) will not be re-elected and will be replaced Mark Latham (ALP) who called GWB "the most incompetent and dangerous American President in living memory". He has also promised to pull the troops out of Iraq - Richard Armitage did not like that!

Peace

Jase.
(Short for Jason).

Medicare premiums to rise by 17%. This Friday's news dump.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=513&ncid=716&e=4&u=/ap/20040903/ap_on_go_ot/medicare_premiums

Meanwhile, Halliburton . . .

Good editorial from Haaretz

http://www.time.com/time/press_releases/article/0,8599,692562,00.html

Oh it's so good to hear your perspective Jase! How refreshing!

Personally I haven't believed the polls for some time now, and Jase, you are right, the rethugs are pitiful. There does though seem to be a coodinated coup here which included information outlets, software/voting machines, and the Republicans. We are really in a jam.

I was so surprised when Tony Blair cozyed up to Bush. It was a sad picture.

http://www.austinchronicle.com/issues/dispatch/2004-09-03/cols_ventura.html

Letters at 3AM
9/11: eleven pages

Since I know I'll be thrilled when Kerry wins I decided to progress my own chart to 11-3. My pMoon is conjunct my pMC but they're conjunct my n12th house cusp (all Capricorn)! Cancer is the ruler of my p3th house with my pSun conjunct Sirius in it! I see these as good or is there something else I should look at (besides my Repug sister's progressed chart to see if she is bummed that day)?
Thanks for your input......

http://cbsnewyork.com/nynews/NY--Bush-Clinton-on/resources_news_html

Audience boos as Bush offers best wishes for Clinton's recovery
Friday September 03, 2004
WEST ALLIS, Wis. (AP) President Bush on Friday wished Bill Clinton ``best wishes for a swift and speedy recovery.''

``He's is in our thoughts and prayers,'' Bush said at a campaign rally.

Bush's audience of thousands in West Allis, Wis., booed. Bush did nothing to stop them.

Bush offered his wishes while campaigning one day after accepting the presidential nomination at the Republican National Convention in New York. Clinton was hospitalized in New York after complaining of mild chest pain and shortness of breath.

Bush recently praised Clinton when the former president went to the White House for the unveiling of his official portrait. He lauded Clinton for his knowledge, compassion and ``the forward-looking spirit that Americans like in a president.''

(Copyright 2004 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)

http://tinyurl.com/4tqre

Two Anti-Kerry Vets Tapped for VA Panel

Two former Vietnam prisoners of war who appear in ads attacking Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry (news - web sites) were appointed by the Bush administration to a panel advising the Department of Veterans Affairs.

The former POWs in the ad, Kenneth Cordier and Paul Galanti, serve on the VA's 12-member Former POW Advisory Committee. VA Secretary Anthony Principi appointed Cordier in 2002 and Galanti in 2003.

Cordier said the VA panel has nothing to do with the Bush campaign or the anti-Kerry group. "It's totally apolitical, and we meet twice a year to bring to the secretary's attention problems from around the country in VA hospitals," he said.

Cordier and Galanti appear in an anti-Kerry ad saying their Vietnamese captors used news of anti-war protests, such as ones Kerry organized, to taunt the prisoners. Cordier also was a member of a Bush campaign veterans' committee but quit earlier this month after that role was revealed.

VA spokesman Phil Budahn said Principi did not know about or encourage the veterans' appearance in the anti-Kerry ad. Budahn said federal regulations bar advisory committee members from engaging in political activity while performing their committee duties, but there are no other restrictions on their activities when not working on committee business.

Kerry has labeled the group running the ads, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, a front for the Bush campaign. Kerry's campaign complained to the Federal Election Commission (news - web sites) that the veterans' group was illegally coordinating its attacks with the Bush campaign.

You guys are all great but I could not give the Repugs any inroads into my brain---I avoided the RNCONvention like the plague(or locusts, Judi!).
I waited for the day after post-mortems from the online writers that I admire, mostly here. :)
Now, let's send the Clintons, Kerry/Edwards & families,the state of Florida, our troops in harm's way and our very own Bhakti some white light for protection.
All of this 60's/'70's deja vu reminds me of one of the greatest slogans ever....."Keep the faith, baby!"
peace to all

http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=367&row=0

President Declares "Ownership Society"
Tells Convention He's Ordered Invasion of Social Security Trust Fund

New York - Of all the bone-headed, whacky, breathtakingly threatening schemes George W. Bush is trying to sell us in his acceptance speech tonight is something he and his handlers call, "the Ownership Society." Sounds cool, "ownership." Everyone gets a piece of the action. Everyone's a winner as the economy zooms. All boats rise.

Sure. Behind the hooray-for-free-enterprise crapola is that dog-eared game-plan to siphon off Social Security revenues to pay for making Bush's tax cuts for the rich permanent.

Here's what the President has in mind. Social Security is an insurance plan. You pay in, you get back. But it's hard to get your money back when there's a war where the Clinton surplus used to be. It's not the war on terror, or the war in Iraq, though Lord knows those have cost us a bundle with nothing to show for all the lost loot. I'm talking about the class war that Dubya and his Dick Cheney have waged on the average working person.

We're talking an economic Pearl Harbor here. While firemen and policemen went running into falling buildings, the Bushmen were preparing to relieve some gazillionaires, such as say, the Bush family, of the need to pay the taxes that the rest of us pay. Work as a teacher, you pay Social Security and income taxes on every darn penny. Sit on your yacht and speculate in the stock market casino and you are off the hook on taxes on the "capital gains."

snip...

Listen, Mr. President, we had an "ownership" society once before. Luckily, it came to an end when Abraham Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation.

Amen Garry!

JASE (short for Jason) Millions of us are asking ourselves the same question you asked. Just how many insane/ignorant/stupid people are lurking on this side of the pond and dear god are they going to vote in record numbers. Millions of us know what a spot we are in and are pretty well mind boggled over it all.

Any chance of Tony being shown the door soon?

Y'all have to see this pic of Dubya on the header
and then the nice pic of Clinton on headlines at
Guardian! Guess we know who the Brits love...!

Hey folks didn't watch the RNC show itself, but did listen to Smirky's speech and somehow missed when he accepted the nomination (I was watching Frances. We pounced on the last campaigns reused promises from the bits I did catch on The Daily Show with Jon Stewart.

Sally isn't the door for Tony a hairs breadth away?

Very nice article, Sally!!

I think we should all look at our planets for November 2 and for Janaury 20. But moreso November 3. I have Jupiter on my South Node. The Jupiter Venus conjunction is exactly there on the 4th. I take this as a hopeful sign.

Does anyone else have anything at 8 of the cardinal signs that would benenfit from that Jupiter Venus? Jupiter then moves to my Mars from the 10th to the 15th of November.

According to Astrodienst, Nancy, on Nov 3rd, I'll have progressed Moon-Venus conj at 10 Scorpio in trine to my natal Moon (11)-Merc (9) conj in Cancer. Progressed Mars & Jupiter will be in sextile (21 Aries, 21 Gem, respectively). Progressed Uranus will be tr progressed Sun (0 Gem and 0 Lib, respectively). And progressed Chiron will be tr natal Mars (11 Leo and 11 Aries, respectively). How's that?

Tony is about as popular as a dogt#rd at the moment - a lot of us in the Labour party are pushing for him to go but Tony listens to no-one but his yes-men/women. I have seen astro predictions predicting ill health for him in the few months.

Ideally, Robin Cook would be the man to replace him but he isn't a realistic proposition so it will probably be Gordon Brown in the next year or so. I can't see the Tories getting in.

Tory supporters, Labour, Lib-Dem, all of us bar Sun readers(The Sun newspaper owned by Rupert Murdoch) think Bush is an idiot. Black cab drivers(notoriously right-wing tories) are heard frequently on talk radio calling Bush and his administration nutters.

Clinton is very well respected - great speaker, amazing memory, and he helped a great deal with the troubles in Nthrn Ireland.
Best president since Kennedy.

I still can't get over Sinatra and Ahhhnold.

Peace

Jase.

Jase, Blair has a several difficult astrological aspects and they are all being impacted this fall and again after the 1st of the year. Fall is going to be hard for him and nearly impossible after the 1st of the year. I don't expect him to continue on as PM no matter what the reason.

Nancy, no 8 but my sun is at 7 Libra. I expect to be very happy. I know it's past but perhaps the happiness will linger a while.

Sally, as always, a thought-provoking article. Thank you.

Jase, we in CA can't get over Ahhhhhnold, either, and the sooner we can, the better! Best of luck to you folks over there giving Blair the boot.

Well, Jase, there's always the impeachment movement. How's that coming?

I hope the Republicans don't get too hung out on that poll and start celebrating, it was taken over Mercury Retrograde. Even David Brooks said "no, no there is something wrong with that, even logic will tell you that." David is a conservative.

Nancy I have a daughter who has an 8 degree Pluto in Libra and 8 degree Venus in Aries. She is also coming up on her first Saturn Return at the same time, in fact her Saturn conj. Bush Saturn (she can't stand him) squares her Sun.

Teresa - Venus will be on your Sun on the night of the 2nd and the 3rd. Very promising. Do you have a natal Sun Venus aspect of any kind? (Conjunction or semisquare/) Or do youhave a progressed Venus/natal Sun aspect going on right now that would be triggered?

Sally - Your daughter will have the Venus Jupiter right on her Pluto/Venus opposition. So I would think it will be a good couple of days for her. Is she very into the current political scene? What degree is the Saturn?

shylurker - I like the progressed Moon/Venus trine natal Moon. That sound quite contented.

Does anyone have Saturn strongly aspecting either Moon or Venus on November 3rd? Saturn will be stationary at 27 Cancer.

I know McCain, Jeb, and GW all have planets that will be hit by that Saturn station.

Well, darn it, Nancy, I was trying to ignore that transiting Saturn, but you had to go and spoil everything. My natal sun is 29 deg Cancer. Sigh.

Not too practiced at following my own Transits yet, but I'm trying. And I'm still not sure what the Cardinal Signs are. I know, I know ... I need to learn a lot. But I did notice I have Progressed Venus at 10 Aries on the 3rd of Nov and, on the 2nd of November, I have Tr. Venus at 6 Libra and Tr. Jupiter at 8 Libra. Um, is Libra a Cardinal Sign? (big blush)

My room mate, who is just absolutely and emotionally horrified by BelzeeBush (to the nth degree!) has Tr. Venus at 6 Libra and Tr. Jupiter at 8 Libra conjunct his Natal Sun at 7 Libra on November 2nd.

Shylurker - Not to worry. It doesn't hit your natal Sun won't get hit til July 2005 and then only for a week. Saturn turns at 27Cancer20. Your Sun is too far to feel much of anything.

That 27 Saturn squares my Natal Moon at 3 Taurus 30. Is that "bad"?

In my room mate's chart, that 27 Saturn squares his 28 Libra 3 Mercury and his 3 Scorpio 48 Venus. Hmmmm.

On Nov. 3, Venus is within a degree of squaring my sun via solar arc. Some nice secondary aspects to my natal Jupiter which is at 11 Libra will just be past as well as a secondary sextile from Mercury to my sun.

Jonathan - Good research!! Your roommate will be especially happy after the election. Hooray!

Whew! Thanks, Nancy. I was sure enjoying my little Venus-Moon-etc. parade. Guess I'll get back to enjoying it some more now. Have a good weekend.

Teresa - It sound quite good. This is exactly what I am looking for. Concerned Dems who look happy on November 3 and Repubs who look miserable. Thanks, everyone!!

is that based on the Venus/Jupiter aspect to his Sun? what about that ominous Saturn square Moon I have? Eeeek! (Or is that an "eeek"?)

Jonathan, Saturn square the moon is not fun but 27 Cancer is still kind of far away from 3 Taurus. I wouldn't worry about it until Saturn moves into Leo. Even then you'll have days when nice aspects will soften the square.

Oh, BTW, the cardinal signs are Aries, Cancer, Libra and Capricorn. All action-oriented although sometimes I wonder about Cancer.

Thank you, Teresa.

Nancy, I don't have any Saturn transits at all on Nov. 3, however, I do have Neptune conjunct Chiron in the 12th. I confess, I do not understand Neptune, Chiron or the 12th house. I hope it doesn't dampen my enthusiasm.

Hey, Teresa! You think us Cancers are all couch-potatoes or sumthin'? (I'm just teasing. Many Cancers, I think, are little clowns.)

Shylurker, LOL, no, I don't think Cancers are couch potatoes. At least not all the time. My experience within my family has been that they have to feel emotionally ready to do anything. Of course we Libras often take a lot of time to decide to do things too.

I have a nephew with a Cancer sun, Sag moon and Pisces rising. A brother-in law with Cancer sun, pisces moon and Leo rising. Once they decide to move, nothing will stop them.

I have to add one more thing...I have really enjoyed this thread. Despite the seriousness of our concerns about Nov. 3 and the direction of our country, the astrology discussion has been delightful. More, more, more...

I also have that Tr. Venus (7Libra20) and Tr. Jupiter (8Libra22) within Orb (6 degrees, right) of my Natal Uranus at 2Libra3 which is natally conjunct my Jupiter at 1Libra16. Maybe I'll be abundantly (Jupiter) happy (Venus?) about something that changes (Uranus)? Nothing to report Progression-wise 'cept for that Pr. Venus at 10Aries51. My Sun is at 00Aries09 conjunct my NN at 00Aries14, but I'm sure that Pr. Venus isn't within Orb.

Nancy,

What sort of orb should we use. Only applying? one degree? I have 9'41" Sun and Uranus Cancer (yes, they are an exact conjunction).

Thank goodness for this site...rational people who speak astrology.

Difficult to watch Bush's speech or even the Repulican convention. Really tired of Republicans. The ones I know complain about the war and everything else about Bush but vote for him so they won't lose their tax refund....needless to say they don't need the money. Looking forward to watching House Hunters but the episode was a repeat so turned off the TV and read a book. Kerry is presently having some rough Mars aspects but after the Mars-Saturn square in mid-September things should turn around for him. Born with Neptune trine Mars the aspect of last minute luck and Jupiter on his Midheaven right before the election he has more than a fighting chance.

Supposedly no president has been re-elected on a Saturn return...lets hope this continues with this one as Bush has one coming up...aspects of Saturn are ones where the chickens come up to roost. Any comments about Pluto conjoining Bush's South Node on election day. Sorta karmic isn't it.

Johnathan,
Just logged and have not caught up with the thread yet on but you can tell your roommate he should be feeling pretty good come Next Nov.2

Chas,

I tried to, but he had already fallen asleep. I'll tell him tomorrow over breakfast. :-) I hope I'M feeling good! (there's that "what-about-me?" Aries Sun, Leo Rising!!!) LOL I should be, though, with those Venus-Jupiter aspects to Uranus ... I guess. Actually, I don't really know what that means!

On Monday morning (August 30) as the Republican Convention began, there was a Pluto station (10:15AM) A full moon took place just about 12 hours before (10:23PM Sunday August 29, and Mercury was retrograde. This is not a great time to officialy launch a re-election campaign.

In the past when Pluto stationed we had the first World Trade Center bombing in 1993, and the riots at the Democratic Convention in Chicago 1968 (just two examples).

He also has Saturn on his natal Saturn for quite some time which historically is not favorable for presidents. Previous examples of presidents with Saturn returns: Andrew Johnson, assumed the presidency after Lincoln was assasinated, but was impeached when Saturn was 29 degrees Scorpio (his natal was 29 degrees Scorpio). Look at Richard Nixon and Watergate (his natal Saturn was 27 degrees Taurus, and the Pentagon papers were published when Saturn was 27 degrees Taurus), and Warren Harding who died mysteriously in office in the midst of an investigation.

Whenever Saturn sits on a president's ascendant, it is bas news for that person-this is happening to Bush before November 2.

BUSHY's Saturn is at 26 degrees Cancer, and around election day Saturn will be at 27 degrees Cancer. This is a time of reckoning and karmic payback. He has engaged in a war for false reasons and he will have to pay the price.

We will most likely witness some sort of scandal around George W. Bush to be exposed over these next two months. The public will most likely be disgusted with him and vote him out. Or if he is re-elected it will be the worst thing that ever happened to him, he will become undone during a second term.

Just watched the heartbbreaking ITN report on the Russian school catastrophe. I have been thinking, that if the governments of the US, Russia and Israel were not so hell-bent on occupying (respectively)Iraq, Chechnya, and Palestine, perhaps their innocent citizens would not have to pay the price for their imperialistic greed. In all three situations, it makes me ill. It seems so obvious to me, but we seem to live in an age where simple logic has no place.

Nancy, My youngest daughter's Saturn is 26 Cancer and her Sun is 25 Aries. My youngest son's Moon is 27 Cancer. I am grateful that one of them is working in Utah right now (the Cancer Moon) All 4 of my children and I have a ton of fixed signs and Pluto in Scorpio with Saturn in Aquarius in the early 90's was a real trip. I will say that through that process they all became real, so I don't expect Saturn on their Cardinal signs to be nearly the trauma, drama that Pluto, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune in Aqu were the last few years.

Well, a little good news...I've got N. Mars 8 Aries...so a little good news!

Just got off the phone with my ex in NYC...he said almost exactly that Janet said a little bit back....the scary black helicopters flying overhead, but NYers have their city back....

As for Frances coming to Florida, well my son in law's sister ( who just lost 2 houses in Punta Gorda) along with her little daughter flew in tonight to So.SF to stay for a week...she knows her husband the sheriff's deputy will be working much easier knowing they are safe...at least as long as we don't have a fire or earthquake here.

I have a cute story....dropped by a friend's house and found that my friend's husband, whose birthday is also the same day as my ex's, had gotten a copy of the real birth certificate of his birth....on the line which says "child's name" it says, in his mother's handwriting, his own 3 names PLUS, before his names, "Baby". He is a psychiatrist ....he was laughing and wondering if legally his name is really Dr. "Baby" A.****C. *****S****, !

Sally, your previous comments about waiting until Oct 10 to see if either or both candidates are still in the running...how does that fit into all this? I guess I'm asking is there an astrological reason for that comment?

WV, was it you who said you flew the One World flag? Yesterday at the houseboat marina in Sausalito, my friend pointed out a boat flying the One World flag....it was half gone, shredded! But it was flying...

I was just wondering about that Oct. 10th date today as well! Hmmmm ... we seem to be on the same beam, Teresa. What is this "thing" I have with Libras? My two best friends in the World are both Libras, one with Aries Rising, the other with both Asc and Moon in Aries. And, yes, they're both a bit kooky. :-)

Thanks for the info Lawrence. Only following recent events. Heard that no one has returned to office on a Saturn return but the fact that he could win on it albeit a scandel isn't too encouraging.

Found Saturn returns to be times of focus, awareness, choice along with the responsiblity and decision making. But these people aren't living on that level.

Do know that the Iraq war began exactly on a Pluto station. The Iraq prison scandel also came out on that. Each time Pluto has been stationary some dire information has surfaced about the war which has been less than favorable for Bush. With Pluto stationary at the onset of the convention waiting for something as well....the upcoming transit toward the conjunction with Bush's natal South Node could bring to the surface his and his cronies past misdeeds.

Jonathan, you're an Aries right? Don't you know opposites attract? LOL. Besides your Aries sun would have a natural affinity with Aries rising and Aries moon. The ying/yang thing. Mercy me, all that fire. I'll bet you and your friends don't sit home a lot. I don't have anything in Aries but I do have a sun/mars conjunction in Libra.

Aha! you NYCers....look at this!

TO: THE SOLARI ACTION NETWORK

9/11 Citizens' Commission: "The Omission Hearings"

The Symphony Space, Peter Jay Sharp Theater; 2537 Broadway at 95th St,
New York, New York, Thursday, September 9, 1-7 pm

The Omission Hearings, co-chaired by Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney and former Bush Sr. official Catherine Austin Fitts, will hear testimony from Ashcroft-gagged whistleblower Sibel Edmonds recently featured on 60 Minutes, Paul Thompson, author of The Terror Timeline (Harper-Collins),Michael Ruppert (author, Crossing the Rubicon, publisher, From The Wilderness) and 9/11 victim family members.

The hearings are a response to citizen concerns such as those raised in a new Zogby poll (http://www.zogby.com/news) that shows that 49.3% of New York City residents believe some government leaders "consciously failed" on 9/11.

Two/thirds (66%) call for a re-opening of the investigation. Given the pivotal historical significance of 9/11, citizens, scholars, and whistleblowers are taking this into our own hands to document the basis for investigation and accountability.

Press Conference to precede event at 11:30am.

Commission hearings to be followed at 8pm by premiere of 9/11 documentary by Barrie Zwicker at 8PM & 9:30PM Thursday evening.

For press inquiries:
Kyle Hence, 212-243-7787; kfh@911citizenswatch.org
9/11 CitizensWatch
http://www.911citizenswatch.org

You know, I happened to turn the radio on in my car this afternoon and I heard the part of the speech where Bush mentioned Clinton's illness ..... people actually cheered, they didn't boo. At least at THAT particular location. So apparently the story is being retracted....unless there were two locations, the story is either bogus or some were booing and they didn't mention the cheers....interesting story, though.

Teresa,

I actually DO sit home a lot. I have a strong Taurus Moon (love my stuff, you know) and a Venus-Saturn conjunction in Aries that shoots me down more often than not. I'm workin' through it, though. Nothing better for me than to be surrounded by allllllllll my books on Astrology just trying to learn the Basics. Obviously, in light of my "what are the Cardinal Signs again" question from before, I still have A LOT to learn! :-) LOL

Nancy I have n. Saturn 8 Libra rx, t. Jupiter dead on. T. Moon will have tagged my n. Moon as the polls close on the West. T so. Node rx conjunct n. Mars in Scorpio rx. I'm gona be packin' some emotion.

Yes, Teg. "No justice / no peace." Or to put it more positively, "If you want peace, work for justice."

Yes Teresa I do have an astro reason but it's extremely complicated to detail because it involves Bush, Kerry, US and some past President's charts. Until the middle of Sept. Bush is in a very percarious physical position and I have a concern that there is a real "scandal" around Kerry that will be revealed in Sept. If it isn't and both candidates are still moving forward by the 10th then they will go ahead with the election.

I laugh outloud anymore when Nancy, Morgana, I or anyother astrologer talks about scandals around Bush. There have been so many impeachable scandals and the American Public seems to be absolutely indocible regarding them. So I've given up on that hope. Only a gay lover coming out with pictures of he and Bush would turn that tide.

Before Oct. 10th however Kerry will start getting another bounce rising into the elections and Bush will start feeling the Saturn to Saturn

Lawrence, Kitty Kelly's book on Nealie will be published mid-September. Also, the book by Seymour Hersh on Abu Ghraib horrors.

Johnathan,

You apparently have the Sun on the north node opposite a Jupiter Uranus conjunction on near the south node.So evey 12years when you get a Jupiter return as you are about to now you have a quantum leap in your over all vison and and a new idea emerges of how you might better use your consderable talents.

Jupiter Uranus with the Sun has a lot of luck and a lot of opportunity.Something about to come along in your life that takes you into new terriority that gives that Aries sun of yours a chance to sense who it is thru new action.
All this in early October as Sun Mercuy Venus Jupiter all go into Libra over you Jupiter Uranus and opposite your sun.

I would like to think your over all sense of expansion and self reaization at this time this time has something to do with things looking good for our man John.

I meant to say that when Bush offered his condolances, the crowd cheered.

Thanks, Sally. Past presidents.....hmmmm....intriguing

Judi, great stuff about the "Omission Hearings." Got to monitor that.

What was your take on the audience reaction to Bush's announcement of Clinton's illness? Was the cheering in response to the fact that he is ill? or what?

Sally, the only planets I have at 8 are Mars and Saturn conj in Pisces in the 10th at the 11th House cusp. Oops, a inconjunct with Venus/Jupiter in November, right? But re how I'll feel Nov 3 there are some health issues with family members that may overshadow my reaction to the election. BTW, when I have a Saturn return it is really something!

Stephanie - I would suggest a one degree orb, waxing only. I find transits dissipate very quickly after they are exact. But the Sun Uranus is interesting. There is the possiblity that the election may not be clear for a few days. I say this becasue there are a lot of natal planets here and there, like Kerry's Mars that will be activated when Jupiter gets to 9 or 10 degrees of Libra. So I would say if someone has some important personal planets around 9 or 10 cardinal, that could be signifcant as well.

OK, here is some activisim for NYC....my ex said he visited Sean P.Diddy Combs new shop on 41st and 5th (not that he can afford the clothes, but he said they were extremely well made (in a sweatshop, of course)....he said that they had made up some great display Tshirts which say VOTE on them, and that people are always asking if they can buy them (he did too). The guard said they weren't for sale, they were display.

I think people should go to the store and tell the guard to pass on the message that they want P.Diddy to issue the tshirts free to the public as penance for his sweatshops. Story from Nov 2003:

A month ago, Sean Combs said he was shocked to learn of sweatshop conditions in his factories. Then he did nothing about it, and has canceled every meeting scheduled with human rights groups to address the issue. The next meeting is supposed to be in mid-December. Will he make it? During this year's HSoC, we're going to remind P. Diddy that it takes a powerful person- a hero- to rock the global economy and stop a sweatshop. He can't run from that responsibility.

That would be like killing two karmas with one stone, sort of....it would be hard to work off the karma of running a sweatshop....

Does anyone know of a site where I can find birth data for past presidents?

Is Saturn coming to BUSHY's Saturn around September 25?

FRG - I am assuming you mean the protracted Sun Mars square in mid September. I am hoping we see Kerry as the Warrior archtype with that aspect stimulating his Sun, Moon, and Saturn. Interestingly, it is conjunct the MC of his old chart of 7:10 AM, which I have not completely given up on.

This Pluto transit to Bush's South Node seems to keep bringing up the harvest of all his reckless and thoughtless policies. I hope there will be enough to bury him. As for the Saturn Mars square, I am counting on it, just post election day, to make Bush very depressed, since it falls on his natal Saturn.

Well, my impression was that Bush was sincere....didn't hear anything bad in it....I don't think he is that kind of guy for some reason. But he is probably a sociopath, so who knows. But I didn't hear him trying to do anything more than come off as a "good guy" wishing the fallen president a good health message. The crowd cheered when he said it....I couldn't come up with any negative impression...except there may have been some booing which was overshadowed by the cheering I suppose. And OF COURSE, never forget what they did when they miked the people booing Michael Moore at the Academy Awards....it was a small contingent of boos, and lots were cheering, but they turned that part way down. LA times did a story on it, and a writer friend of mine brought it to my attention then. It was all theater...

Nancy, when Jupiter get into early degrees of Libra, it ignites my Mars, Sun, Jupiter stellium in Libra at 4, 7 and 11 respectively AND squares my moon at 9 Capricorn AND a fun sextile to Uranus at 10 Leo. I still see happy, maybe even deliriously happy.

Just noticed Teresa H. Kerry has her Mercury at 8 Libra, her Sun at 11 Libra. Sweet.

Morgana, what about Dean?

Lawrence - Yes, around September 25 Saturn comes into one degree orb of Bush's Saturn.

I agree with all the above comments about the Saturn return. Saturn likes hard, cold facts and no cheating. I can't imagine Bush will be able to get away with all the BS he usually spouts when he has that Saturn return. It seems to me, the reality of the economic mess and the Iraqi mess will be very visible. I don't see how else to read it. And perhaps some of the scandals will unfold, like who revealed Plame, or how the neocons are sabotaging our foreign policy for their own purposes (the current Franklin scandal unfolding). Saturn is very precise and doesn't allow for any Neptuneian nonsense.

Teresa - Yes, I think you will enjoy that transit a lot.

Morgana - Teresa Heinz Kerry's chart looks very good for the two dates: 11/3 and 1/20. She gets that Jupiter station opposite her Ascendant through Janaury and early February.

Laura Bush has Neptune at 9 Libra.

Shylurker, Dean has his n. Moon at 10 Gemini, nice trine with T. Jupiter.

John Edwards has a trine to his n. Jupiter, trine fading to his n. moon, and a square to his Mercury. Not to shabby.

I also noticed that Saturn is approaching Laura's 4th house cusp which is 29 Cancer. Is this perhaps an indication that she is ready to go home?

This is a story on Putin's response to the slaughter at the school house...this story says 200 dead...but it is chillingly parallel to 9/11 in the responses from government...the authoritarian control of the media particularily.http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A60411-2004Sep3.html

Oooo-whooo! Thank you, Morgana! You go Dr. Dean!!!!! Yes.

(Translation: I'm hoping this means we will get more Dems in the House & Senate.)

Many tnx!

TERESA: this link is a great on for President's birthdays

http://www.worldalmanacforkids.com/explore/presidents.html

interesting...the head of the polling firm that came up with the 52-41 Bush-Kerry numbers in Time was a key figure in the Voter News Service, the outfit run by the networks doing exit polling. their work was so bad and suspect that the networks had to quickly close it down after the 2000 election. the guy also 'consults' for faux and cnn.

and oh, by the bye, since walter isacson, vile head of cnn from time- warner (after time warner acquired the company) started courting the right wing and emulating faux, their best show ratings have gone from 2.5 million to .6 million (larry king, their 'heavy hitter). they're finished. lets all do the cabbage patch boogie. rip cnn.

the astrology on this site is getting so sophisticated, i had to 'go inside' to make a contribution. i predict, based on my spirit guide guido, that the scandal associated with kery will be an outward manifestation and result in a scandal kerry can use against the repigs.

ps. raj, love your stuff!

Sally, thanks, I'll check the site out tomorrow.

Mike, nice to hear from you. I hope Guido is right.

Good night all. It's past this little Libra's bedtime.

Mike, so.....you have a spirit guido?

judi that's 'spirit guide' guido. remember the native american who showed up in Wayne's World. it's sort of like that but i'm not allowed to go any further. hope things are going well for you and i enjoy your contributions. guido is making a major set of predictions on this very board in 9/19 when pluto gets the heck off of my jupiter and my channels open up for broadband psychic reception. night

Hey--why don't we form some sort of bulletin board with different topics? It seems that a lot of us are of similar political ideologies with a common interest in Astrology...so how about a bulletin board we can always go to with different sub-topics on Astrology as it relates to politics???? That way we won't have to wait until the latest article is posted and have a conversation springing just from that, especially since we veer off the subject somewhat at times...

My software won't let me confirm this because it won't go back in time far enough and get me the transits.....but wasn't George Washington re-elected during his 2nd Saturn return in 1792 ??? I have a date of birth for him of: Feb 22 1732 Baynesville, Virginia 10:00 AM...As I understood it, no sitting president with Saturn on his ass has ever been re-elected other than the first George....

Lawrence, Washington started his 1792 campaign on his second Saturn Return and it's interesting to note there were some problems with his campaign and the government at that time. However by the time of the election his Saturn Return was months in the past in late degree Aries and in the passive stage of the return.His Saturn was 3 degrees Aries, and Saturn had passed it by, although he did have challanges when Saturn was on his Saturn. In this election GWB's Saturn Return will be in its active stage.

Clinton said "The Republicans aren't the only ones who want four more years!" Let us all pray tht this geat man will be with us for many more yeas.

Despite Ashcroft's attempts to stop the FBI probe, it's not going away... WaPo story this am:

Leak Inquiry Includes Iran Experts in Administration

By Robin Wright and Dan Eggen
Washington Post Staff Writers
Saturday, September 4, 2004; Page A04

FBI counterintelligence investigators have in recent weeks questioned current and former U.S. officials about whether a small group of Iran specialists at the Pentagon and in Vice President Cheney's office may have been involved in passing classified information to an Iraqi politician or a U.S. lobbying group allied with Israel, according to sources familiar with or involved in the case.

In their interviews, the FBI agents have also named two Israeli diplomats stationed in Washington and asked whether they would be willing recipients of sensitive intelligence, the sources added.

The investigators have asked questions about personnel in the office of Pentagon Undersecretary for Policy Douglas J. Feith as well as members of the influential Defense Policy Board, an advisory panel for Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, according to former U.S. officials who have been questioned and others familiar with the case.

Investigators have specifically asked about a group of neoconservatives involved in defense issues, including Feith, Deputy Defense Secretary Paul D. Wolfowitz, Iraq and Iran specialist Harold Rhode and others at the Pentagon. FBI agents also have asked current and former officials about Richard Perle of the defense board and David Wurmser, an Iran specialist and principal deputy assistant for national security affairs in Cheney's office, according to sources familiar with or involved in the case.

More http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A60497-2004Sep3?language=printer

I do have one positive item to report from CA: The $15 - $17 million (it changes day to day) in federal funds to be used for elections that Ahhhhhhnold froze, is going to be released. It seems the county supervisors of elections prevailed. Whew.

Just did a solar return chart for Laura Bush which occurs two days after the election.

She has 29 degrees cancer on the cusp of her fourth in her natal chart.Her solar return moon is at 29 degrees cancer conjunct solar return Saturn at 27 cancer.Mars at 25 libra on her birthday is about to square solar return Saturn moon and natal cusp of fourth.

So solar return Saturn moon and mars making hard aspects to her natal fourth house cusp of home family and endings.

This means a major ending and more than likly a change of residence.

As the fourth is the husbands tenth it also indicates the husband is about to have a carrere change which results in the "ending" in her lfe and the change of residence.

Also, on her birthday Nov 4, Neptune almost exactly opposite her natal and progressed pluto square her natal Sun and square her natal ascendent descendent axis.Her natal Sun is square Saturn Pluto and is located close to the cusp of the seventh in scorpio and is indcation of the pluto nature of her husband, ie totally controling.

Neptune about to loosen things up a bit as her husband suffers a carrere loss and perhaps endures some kind of scandal in the year to come.

Does any one have the birth data for Teresa Heinz Kerry?.I seemed to have somehow missed out on picking up on that.

Good morning Astroworld!!

Wow! Good stuff, and I'm really grateful. Smooch!

Will I be happy on Nov.2/3?
I can't tell! I do better reading others charts than my own!
T saturn will be 2o from applying to a conj. to n pluto @ 29o cancer in my 2nd house. That is in mutual reception with my n scorpio moon @ 23o in the 6th house. The last time saturn passed this way, I had divorced, & there was steady free lance artwork coming in, increasing & building. more money for the next 10 years.
T sun 9 scorpio has just conjuncted my n N node @ 8o scorpio 5th house.........T venus & T jupiter @ 4 & 7 libra 5th house ( of creativity, children.....childrens books!) are opposite my n venus 10 aries, mercury 16 aries, 11th house ( hopes / aspirations) BUT T mars is 23o libra directly opposite my n saturn 23o aries; which squares my n mars 22o capricorn, 8th house; conjunct T chiron @ 21 - 23o capricorn. ( that square has always been my achilles heel...difficulties / depression stopping the creative process...........also preventing me from finding a mate as I am percieved as formidable, too assertive, to most men! It worked great running a business however............... T pluto will conjunct my 7th house cusp. "wasupwiththat"????????
T Uranus in pices is 5o past conjunct with my MC; since pices rules oil & paint & is a creative sign, & uranus is sudden events......I have to interpret that as a sudden "POSITIVE" change in my career, as it's been veeeerrrrryyyy slow these recent years!!!!!.
The final aspect on Nov. 2 is Neptune in 12o aquarius 9th house ( publishing) squared to my n sun @13o taurus, 12th house, & applying to a square to my n scorpio sun
in the next 2 years.
My interpretation...............On Nov 2 / 3 .I will be happy to recognize an upturn coming in my
career & creative output. Since the Kerrys will promote the arts & the Bushes have NOT, I take that to mean a win for Kerry.
Was that too convoluted?????

Thanks for sharing your story Judi. We have parallelled pretty closely in our history. Except, I forced to sell mu NJ house, bought a very poor house here in Maine, which has fought back for the last 13 years ( I put up my clothes bar 3 times last winter, instead of working on my artwork, because the walls are so poor, anything I screwed into them fell out in a month or less, finally I did some major construction & so far so good!)
In August when I was in NJ I drove past the old house................scene of the floods in July.......and I have arrived at a place where I am glad I am not there, but here!
( T chiron has danced over that mars several times recently, bringing healing)
BTW I had the ONLY Kerry bumper sticker in the entire state of NJ; Phila. too. I was worried but as I talked to people......not ONE of them was going to vote for Bush!!!!!!
Pat QOP

Pqop

Chas

Teresa H. Kerry 10/5/1938, 6:18 PM Maputo, Mozambique

Morning Astrophiles!

Moanin' Ms. Morgana. The great Mayan exhibit is now open in SF.

Medicare Premiums to Rise 17 Percent

Fri Sep 3, 6:27 PM ET

By MARK SHERMAN, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - Medicare premiums for doctor visits will rise 17 percent next year, the Bush administration said Friday. The $11.60-a-month increase is the largest in the program's 40-year-history.

Monthly payments for Part B of the government health care program for older and disabled Americans — doctor visits and most other non-hospital expenses — will jump to $78.20 from $66.60.

The timing of the release — the day following the Republican convention, just before the Labor Day weekend and with a hurricane bearing down on Florida and its nearly 3 million Medicare recipients — also drew criticism Friday.

"This is a cynical attempt to bury bad news by leaking it out when you hope no one is watching," said Rep. Fortney "Pete" Stark, D-Calif. "This administration has had four years to improve Medicare and instead have made it worse. Today's news reflects the reality, not rhetoric, of this administration's bad record on Medicare."

......................

http://www.antiwar.com/orig/conyers.php?articleid=3488

Congress Must Investigate Spy Scandal

by Rep. John Conyers

I write to ask that the Judiciary Committee commence an immediate full investigation and examine substantial and credible evidence that Pentagon officials have engaged in criminal wrongdoing in their handling of classified material and have engaged in unauthorized covert activities.

Press reports have recently disclosed that the Federal Bureau of Investigation is currently examining whether a Pentagon analyst, Larry Franklin, illegally passed along a classified document involving the policy of the United States toward Iran. It is not yet known whether Mr. Franklin was acting on his own, or whether he was acting at the behest of his superiors. The fact that a rogue element of the United States government may have been working with a foreign government in possible contravention of current foreign policy is a grave matter that should be of concern to every American.

snip....

While I am fully cognizant that many of these activities may be the subject of an ongoing criminal investigation, there is ample precedent that such an investigation does not preclude, and will not be interfered with as a result of, a concurrent congressional investigation. Recently, when allegations were made about the mishandling of classified information in the National Archives by a former Clinton administration official, you and other Committee chairmen affirmed this principle.

I urge you to treat this request with the utmost importance. These matters may well constitute the greatest subversion of our democracy and compromising of our national security since the Iran-Contra affair. It is of paramount importance that our committee begin work on this matter

Good lord, several terminals in LAX have been shut down.

 http://www.lewrockwell.com/kwiatkowski/kwiatkowski92.html

The Promise of George W. Bush

Yessiree, ol' Viagra Bob:

http://finance.myway.com/jsp/nw/nwdt_rt.jsp?section=news&news_id=dji-00094720040902&feed=dji&date=20040902&cat=INDUSTRY

Very interesting article about Saturn returns and the presidential election:

http://www.california.com/~eameece/election2004.htm

LOL! Of course!

http://www.california.com/~eameece/book.htm#PREDICTIONS

I am now also saying that Bush will not serve out two full terms, as I have suggested in my book. If he is assassinated, it will be in either 2003 or 2005. He is certainly vulnerable to attack by some Muslim fanatic. This would fulfill the long-standing 20-year pattern of presidential deaths in office dating back to 1842, corresponding to Jupiter-Saturn conjunctions at the start of presidential terms, which Reagan avoided "by inches." If however Bush is lucky too, and he avoids death, he will probably not be re-elected in 2004. An opponent will probably be able to argue that we are neither at peace nor in prosperity at this time. Gore faces his Saturn Return, as does Hilary Clinton, and both seem to have sensed the cosmic timing and decided not to run in 2004. If Bush is re-elected, it is likely he will not finish his term. Noone has ever been first elected president during a Saturn Return. The three presidents who were re-elected during a Saturn Return, had their presidencies destroyed in some way. Wilson had a stroke, FDR died, and Nixon was forced to resign. All three were war-time presidents, and all had Saturn in the 9th and 10th house during the re-election year. The 9th house rules foreign affairs, and the 10th house indicates victory. Bush is also a war-time president, but his Saturn is in the 12th house, indicating secret dealings, self-undoing and decepti

Lawrence, wow, thanks for posting that great link to presidential Saturn returns....terrific reading, I am encouraged....I especially like his use of Grant Lewi's work, as I studied him a lot in my early years of astro study in Phoenix (living under my least aspected planet, Uranus, so that was the perfect place to get in touch with all things astrological....now I am living in SF Bay Area, right under my Mercury line which is trining my N. Neptune....(all Rob Couteau's astrocartography work)

Mike....I was trying to be funny....I know you guido is your spirit guide....but you know, punning is the highest form of humor....so I made him your "spirit guido"....I guess it isn't nice to joke about other people's spirit guides.

But hey, this morning mine said GW*ush would "die" on 9/10.

I didn't ASK the question. My pendulum spelled it out! (Please, please, don't let this be mistaken identity and it's actually Bill....)

And 9/10 has come up a lot on these threads...any comments about that day out there ? It seems to be a pivotal day according to Sally.

Good afternoon, Astroworld!

I am for the first time trying to figure out how asteroids work in charts. Can anyone point me to a book or a site that can give interpretations of specific aspects? Anyone know what Juno conjunct the natal moon could mean?

Thanks to all who have been posting historical astrological data. I find that fascinating.

Have just read that Newsweek is now confirming Times poll result for GWB presidential bid. They give him a 13 point bounce. Get with it people....Bush will win in November. Most astrologers of note have strongly stated this fact many months ago. The only place I have found a gathering of people who disagree is here. Knock it off...get yourself ready just as though you have found yourself in a hurricane situation....flashlights, batteries, water, portable radio! It's gonna be a bumpy ride but we have no choice but to survive the oncoming storm of another 4 years.

Namaste!

Here you go Tereasa

http://www.google.com/search?q=asteroids+in+astrology&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

Sorry BJ, but he will not last that long, he just won't, however it plays out. And as GWB would say, "I feel it, from my gut."

B.J., a couple of months ago I was in a waiting room reading old Time and Newsweek magazines. Their predictions hadn't worked out very well.

Well, well, well, has anyone seen this?

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/04/opinion/04greeley.html?th=&pagewanted=print&position=

September 4, 2004
OP-ED CONTRIBUTOR
A Hidden Swing Vote: Evangelicals
By MICHAEL HOUT and ANDREW M. GREELEY

The press has made a big issue of how President Bush and Senator John Kerry are both trying to woo voters from groups that usually support the other side, be they military veterans, Hispanics or Jews. Yet one group that receives almost no attention is Christian evangelicals. We are repeatedly told they form the president's unshakeable electoral base. But in truth, this claim is vastly simplistic: the fashionable image of masses of white evangelical voters, stirred up by the tricks of Karl Rove and led by Bible-thumping clergymen, marching in lock step to deny rights to women and to gays, is hardly born out by the data. Rather, the real Republican base is the same as it was before Richard Nixon's "Southern strategy" appealed to religious Protestants in 1968: the wealthy and the powerful.

Data about the last two presidential elections drawn from the 1998, 2000 and 2002 General Social Surveys, carried out by the National Opinion Research Center at the University of Chicago, found that the one-fifth of white Americans who belong to "fundamentalist" churches (like Southern Baptist, Assembly of God, Holiness, Pentecostal and Missouri Synod Lutheran) are remarkably pluralistic in their political and social attitudes. While it is true that white evangelicals tend to be more conservative socially, as well as religiously, than the average American, there is little correlation between religious conservatism and political conservatism. For example, in the social surveys, about 40 percent of Americans who believe in the literal, word-for-word interpretation of the Bible describe themselves as "politically conservative."

In the last two presidential elections, about 62 percent of white evangelicals voted Republican - or about 7.5 percent more than among other American Protestants. A majority, clearly, but nowhere near unanimity. And in terms of the electorate as a whole, it's hardly fair to say evangelicals are a dominant political force. If we measure their overall political influence as that 7.5 percent differential multiplied by their share of the electorate - they make up about 21 percent of voters- it comes to about 1.6 percentage points. Yes, as the 2000 election showed, even an edge that small can be decisive in a close race. But it hardly amounts to an overwhelming base. Moreover, those 1.6 percentage points are spread across all regions, not concentrated in the South, where the evangelicals supposedly contribute to the Republicans' red state advantage.

Clearly, claims that evangelicals have hijacked the nation's politics are greatly exaggerated. In fact, polling data show that President Bush's real base is not religious but economic, the group he jokingly referred to as "the haves and the have mores."

more.......

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/mld/sunnews/news/opinion/9580059.htm

Lies move Democrats to dig up dirt

My Democratic friends are mad as hell, and they aren't going to take it any more.

They are worried, having watched as another August smear campaign, full of lies and half-truths, takes its toll in the polls.

They are frustrated, mostly at the Kerry campaign, for naively believing that just because all the newspapers and news organizations that investigated the charges of the Swift Boat assassins found them to be full of lies and half-truths, they wouldn't take their toll. The word on the street is that Kerry was ready to fire back the day the story broke, but that his campaign, believing the charges would blow over if they ignored them, counseled restraint.

But most of all, activist Democrats are angry. As one who lived through an August like this, 16 years ago - replete with rumors that were lies, which the Bush campaign claimed they had nothing to do with and later admitted they had planted - I'm angry, too. I've been to this movie. Lies move numbers.

More...

And a friend of mine who happened to be walking through the area by Madison Square Garden (more up by the Theatre District, actually) just as the Convention let out the night that Arnold spoke was stopped by someone asking them to take a survey and then asked if they were a Delegate. When my friend answered "no", the survey taker said "forget it, then". Didn't think too much of it until this TIME poll came out.

With all due respect to you and others here what is practiced in this forum is better referred to as group reenforcement of aversion therapy to a President you and I all despise. Reality sucks but it is none the less real....he will win and you will hate it but he will still win. Some of the links on this very page have stated it firmly . I am sure you have all read them. Choose to ignore if you must but only at your own peril. Better to prepare now. This way the damage to your collective psyche will be much less severe. Truly...I believe this!

Namaste!

Please, with all due respect, what are you basing your "he will win" belief on? The links provided all point to the history of Saturn Returns and their role in the re-election of Presidents. Have you not read these links? And have you not read the articles our astrologers and others have submitted on this site and elsewhere that point out the difficulties in Bush's chart in relation to the Inauguration Chart, so on and so forth? Those who have claimed he would win have now seemed to backtrack a little. So, instead of chastising us for believing what we do, perhaps you could support your assertions with a bit more than ordering us to "get real" or whatever it was you said?

Poll taken by Time, I don't think it is worth taking serously;only 900 persons were polled and I
am wondering how 900 can represent 100-150 million
voters in any statistical random sampling.So I am
not putting any weight on this at all. I want to find out from Chas or Vis about the real President
Clinton's longevity from his natal chart.I know
by pass surgery is not that critical, but still because we do need his campaigning on Kerry/Edward
behalf, don't we?

Thanks, Pat.

BJ,I take it you are not a Bush supporter but you seem to be so certain that Kerry will not win. Other sites than this one have predicted a Kerry victory. So far, the predictions of the great astrologers on this board are being played out. Bush was predicted a good September and this seems to be occurring. However, before you give up on Kerry, please wait until the end of September and early October to see if the predicted turn-around for Kerry occurs. Specifically, as Sally has predicted, from October 10 on.

I noticed something today here in the battleground-state of Missouri. Kerry-Edwards yard signs are popping up all over and I have yet to see anything other than a single Bush-Cheney bumper sticker.

Seems strange to me that Freepers feel so insecure they must "crash" a board as insignificant as this in a tiny corner of cyberspace to spread their version of reality... (no slight intended Sally... this board is very significant to us, but it is not CNN and it is not Dailykos or Drudgereport (thank goodness)... the freepers must be quaking in their boots to spend time on a Labor Day weekend when most folks are sitting around the pool or the grill tossing back a beer, peddling their 'snake oil' to the opposition... yep, I'd say they know that Times poll stinks to high heaven...

Namaste (from someone who knows what the word means)

P.S. I question anyone whose initials are B.J.

Pat C. thanks for posting the asteroids link....it just happens that VESTA is very powerfully aspected in my chart and is in 28 Capricorn....so I was glad to read the explanations, which seem to fit my so called life....

Interesting .... the article on Saturn returns were written before Kerry was selected, and the writer found him to be the most viable...I think the Saturn return chart seems to hold alot of promise. And it is hard to argue with history. I also didn't realize that is was Stonewall Jackson who made universal voting possible...very clearly a difference between the popular vote and the electorial college vote. As Sally has already pointed out....

These tracking polls don't mean sh___...What counts most of all is the ELECTORAL COLLEGE polls--there are several web sites that post daily or weekly results. Kerry had been ahead for months on all of them until about a week ago. Bush is now ahead somewhat, but it is hardly by an overwhelming margin, and many of the states in his column just lean that way by very small percentage points.

This huge "BUSH BOUNCE" is a media created story since the race has been so dull as far as who is ahead and who isn't. But for months they have RARELY reported how Kerry was consistently ahead in the Electoral College polls. Liberal media my A---!

Check out:

http://www.electoral-vote.com/

http://www.electionprojection.com/elections2004.html

http://synapse.princeton.edu/~sam/pollcalc.html

http://www.federalreview.com/

The astrological conversations have been very interesting.

Whatever the polls say, whatever the pundits say, whatever anyone says, a lot can happen between now and Nov. 2 so don't be sure of anything, B.J. et al.

On the DU Breaking News threads I just read 2 interesting items: 1) An announcement that they are closing in on OBL (no great surprise there, it was obviously part of the strategy - smear Kerry before the convention & capture OBL soon after). 2) The Kitty Kelly book that debuts mid-Sept (Sally) - "The Family" - is going to absolutely trash the Bush family and hopefully won't be dismissed because it is so trashy. Among many potential scandals will be the item that the our intelligence services created the Anthrax incident at the Nat'l Enquirer building, which brought the death of its editor, BECAUSE they had scandalous photos of Dubya. Other stuff will include incriminating business deals by everyone including Laura, sleasy sexual information on Sr. & Jr., including, I think, Dubya's homosexuality (which I don't quite believe). I am looking forward to this book! It will definitely be welcomed by our "National Inquirer" reading country.

My husband, mother-in-law, and I had our books signed by Bill Clinton this past Tuesday. He wasn't supposed to personalize any books but we told him it was my mother-in-law's 83rd birthday, and he wrote "Happy 83rd Birthday, Freda" on hers. He held her hand and told her she was the most beautiful 83 y.o. woman he had ever seen (it's true, she has both inner & outer beauty and seems ageless). I thanked him for all he'd done for the country and the world and he answered, "it was my privilege." Now to hear that he is ill feels very strange. But, I am not at all worried about him - he will be fine.

Pray for all of those who are suffering. Picture a light purple world. Keep the faith, baby!

Quotes from the last century that absolutely apply now - from newsletter InformationClearingHouse:
"Next the statesmen will invent cheap lies, putting the blame upon the nation that is attacked, and every man will be glad of those conscience-soothing falsities, and will diligently study them, and refuse to examine any refutations of them; and thus he will by and by convince himself that the war is just, and will thank God for the better sleep he enjoys after this process of grotesque self- deception." : Mark Twain 1916

=

War Is A Racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small "inside" group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes: Major General Smedley Butler. 1881 - 1940

=

"There is no nonsense so arrant that it cannot be made the creed of the vast majority by adequate governmental action.": Bertrand Russell

I have a brain freeze going on and can't figure out what OBL is....Sharon, great story on Clinton, though. Couldn't find out what you were talking about on OBL at DU....sorry, stupidly frozen now....beep beeep beeeeep!

ANd Greg Palast will have a DVD out Sept 28 on the Bush family (Bush Family Fortunes: the Best Democracy Money Can Buy) which was used by MM as the basis of Moore's 9/11....

this bj is masquerading as that joe; shrub,cheny,
rowe have demanded the pakis to produce osama before Nov; why this hurry, if they're confident of being ahead in the FAKE polls etc? By the way
it seems like karma time for the state of FL with
Frances bearing on it after Charly 2 weeks ago. Frances encompasses 95% of FL in area and watch out for the worst! There is also another depression being formed in the Atlantic aiming towards FL. So I'm even wondering that prez elections in FL may not take palce on Nov.2, if FL
is going to be devasted by 3 hurricanes in 6 weeks
of sequence and elections only 2 months away!

To all: Thanks for proving my point so beautifully. There is, judging by your responses, no room for dissent here. When all else fails one is deemed a "freeper"....whatever that means.

As for citations of backing up my theories...oh for heaven sakes....even Sally has withheld judgment of the winner until October 10th. Astropro, Astro Insight, Planet Waves, Star IQ....and many many more astrology sites have and continue to believe that Bush will win. I don't have to back it up....they do it for me.

Take a breath....don't beat the messenger. It doesn't change a thing. I choose to believe the points of view that you find objectionable. I will, as advised, keep an eye on things until the end of September. I believe that will get us closer to Sally's recommendation of October 10 as the day we will know the last man standing in this race.

Until then....put down your guns. At the level of hostility that one comment can provoke here it is clear that everyone is just a tad jumpy. You might hurt each other....seriously!

By the way, Jo....I do indeed understand the meaning of Namaste! Judging by your snipey comments and insecurity revealed by it, I would suggest you hit your knees and do a little meditation quickly. Help you to get back to your center ASAP.

Namaste!

thanks....anonymous....good comments on bj and the hurricane, coming soon to a theater near some of us....

And thanks to Lawrence and Horace and all the astro url postings....

judi,
you can figure out who the anonymous is.shylurker
figured it out about 2 weeks ago, when I took on
joe freeped the first time on this site. By the way that time joe didn't know what 'namaste' is.
Here bj says he knows namaste; bj is joe who knows namaste.

BJ,

Please don't take my request to support your assertions that Bush will win as an attack. I'm actually very curious to see what those astrologers who like Bush are seeing that makes him the Winner in Nov. It is in no way an attack on you or on dissent. As a Democrat, I don't attack those who have differing opinions. Those are Republicans you're thinking of. So, please feel free to post here excerpts from those sites you mentioned that support a Bush win so our astrologers (and I think they may have already) can answer these excerpts with other astrological facts.

As for BJ being Joe ... maybe, maybe not. I'd like for BJ to support his or her assertions of a Bush win before I decide whether or not they're freeping. If they are, we ignore them. If they enter into an intelligent discussion that doesn't use attack or disrespect and supports what they say with astrology, maybe we can all learn something and see these charts we've become so familiar with with "new eyes".

Of course, I'm still voting for Kerry and perhaps BJ will still vote for Bush, but any chance to learn astrology and I'm right there! :-)

OBL ... Osama bin Laden

Some folks walk in a fog of ignorance... one doesn't meditate on one's knees...

-----------

The folks in Florida are not reaping karma... they are experiencing a hurricane... a fairly common event this time of the year anywhere along the eastern seaboard... my heart goes out to all those folks... surely the elderly and the poor will suffer the most... the well-built mansions will withstand the damage, but the trailers and mobile homes that so many live in will not... Florida is home to many retirees and elderly folk do not move easily... again, my heart goes out to them. Having grown up on the coast and experienced these storms I understand the heartache they can bring... loss of lives also...

Light to all

So what DOES Namaste mean to you?

I have a great shot from the marina in Sausalito of an arty little houseboat with the painted sign of Namaste on top....photo available on request!

I do take yoga....it's not like I haven't said it before....but it is always interesting to see how it means what it means to different people.

And this is what 4 more years will bring....
Population parley told Bush policies hurt women
By John Daniszewski, Los Angeles Times  |  September 4, 2004

LONDON -- Organizations concerned with reproductive health and sex education sharply criticized the Bush administration yesterday, saying that its policies are contributing to the worldwide AIDS pandemic and the deaths of women during childbirth and from unsafe abortions.

The criticism came on the final day of the three-day Countdown 2015 conference in London, which brought together about 700 representatives of governments and nongovernmental groups from 109 countries to assess progress toward the goals set 10 years ago at the UN conference on population growth and development, held in Cairo.

The administration's denial of funding to groups such as the UN Population Fund and the International Planned Parenthood Federation, and the pressure it has put on other countries to not cooperate with organizations that advocate or provide access to legal abortion, have had a ''chilling effect" globally, said Steven Sinding, federation director-general.

''In a reversal of its historic role, my own country has emerged as one of the most significant obstacles to progress," said Sinding, an American. ''This insidious war on women's health and rights is threatening some of the very real progress that has been made during the last decade."

Last month, the administration again blocked $34 million that Congress had approved for the UN Population Fund, saying the organization supports coercive abortions and forced sterilization in China. The fund has denied supporting coercive abortions or forced sterilization anywhere.

Former senator Timothy E. Wirth, a Democrat who is president of the United Nations Foundation, said that under the Bush administration, Washington has failed to show leadership in the fight to increase access to reproductive health programs and sex-education information, he said. ''The United States has become in effect responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands, in fact millions, of women," he told a news conference in London. 

BJ, it's your attitude that is annoying, like you're above all of us and think we're beyond seeing reality.

I still think it will be a Kerry win, but I also realize that anything could happen. I don't appreciate someone telling me that Bush is going to win and that's that. It's not that! Kerry has a very very good chance to overcome this awful president and that is what I'm choosing to believe will happen. If I am wrong, then we go from there.

"Thoughts" themselves have a reality and my thoughts will help Kerry to victory. If we all feel that Kerry has no chance, then he has no chance.

Jo: You are an interesting creature. One who practices your particular form of spirituality should know much better than to assume such a self righteous posture. Childish of you to even denigrate my name. Blame my mother for that decision, not I.

I am not a "freeper", I am not Joe, I am a female, I live in the East, I do not support Bush....and apparently I have made a terrible mistake by barging into this forum without having first read the handbook on what is acceptable here and what is not.

Forgive me...I will leave you as I have found you. Never to return, swear to God and Buddha!

Namaste!

Maybe it would be a good idea to reallize BJ is Joe and do the same thing.

Farewell. Come back and say hi after the Kerry landslide!!!

"Namaste is a composite of the two Sanskrit words, nama, and te. Te means you, and nama has the following connotations:

To bend
To bow
To sink
To incline
To stoop

All these suggestions point to a sense of submitting oneself to another, with complete humility."

http://www.exoticindiaart.com/article/namaste

Just saw Mark Crispin Miller on CSPAN, who gave a wonderful talk. Here's a recent interview:

http://www.buzzflash.com/interviews/04/07/int04037.html

BuzzFlash: You're the astute observer of George W. Bush's rhetoric and lack thereof. Explain the significance, if you will, of Bush's statements around probably one of the most damaging issues, the Iraq prison abuse scandal. What is your analysis of how he handled this utter tragedy and embarrassment to the country?

Mark Crispin Miller: He's responded to it as he always does to revelations that discredit him or threaten to discredit him. He's denied it, tried to minimize it, blamed others for it. He can speak clearly on the issue only if he sticks to the "few bad apples" talking point. I'm struck also by the fact that Bush cannot pronounce the prison's name. He can't say "Abu Ghraib," but keeps coming up with strange new variations. He has such trouble saying it because he doesn't want the story to be known -- perhaps not even to himself, although he obviously signed off on the torture plans.

Bush feels no empathy. There's no evidence that he can empathize with anyone. There is only evidence that he's incapable of empathy, because whenever he tries to make an unscripted empathetic statement, his language melts into amusing gaffes. In place of empathy, he expresses what he regards as righteous wrath, indignation, disgust, nausea at the gruesomeness and sadism of the enemy's acts. As far as I can remember, he's outdone every modern president in the explicitness of his gruesome and inflammatory charges. He goes on in such gory detail with, let's face it, a certain relish. This is a guy who, as a lad, blew up frogs for sport. This is a guy who set a record for executing people in Texas. This is the guy who made fun of Karla Faye Tucker when she was facing execution. The guy's a sociopath.

Does anyone have the birthtime for Poppy (G.W.H. Bush)? He was born June 12, 1924, at Milton Mass. Tanks.

I posted that bit (which more by the way is at the link) just because I find it interesting that with a 12th house Cancer Sun, you'd think he'd be so sensitive. What forms his shell? The saturn 12th house? The moon/Libra? I guess I better hit the archives and re read Isabelle's and others interps.

I have 11:30 am, shylurker.

Thank you, ma'am, Mz Shade.

"How Dick Cheney got away with 35 Million just ahead of a government probe into Halliburton" - New article by Jason Leopold - Online Journal find it at http://fair.org/ the second artile down on the right side of the page. So baffeling to know that republicans can still vote for such corruption. Also "The most underreported news story" Overtime pay. Even the employers can't figure it out. Read the articles or listen on real audio.

One of the reasons there is a difference in Astrological views is the same reason there was confusion with the 2000 winner. As with Gore/Bush, Kerry/Bush both have winner and loser aspects on Election day. Strong winner and loser aspects and one can make an interpretation either way. It's sort of like being pregnant and you got a 50 percent chance it's a girl and a 50 percent chance it's a boy.

One of the main reasons I would lean toward a Kerry/Edwards win is not what I see in their charts (because you can point and counter point with winning aspects in Bush/Cheney charts) it's what I don't see on election day in the Kerry/Edwards charts. I don't see grave disappointing aspects for either of them. I do see problems for them over the next few weeks and then something helps them to break free again.

Both politicians have an uphill climb over the next 4 years and for GWB, if he wins the percentages of being able to continue to keep a lid on the scandals goes down considerably for him and the American people get fed up really fast. They will be fed up faster with Bush than with Kerry because Bush doesn't have a honeymoon left.

In 2000 I said the Election Chart looked like the winner would be the ultimate loser and the loser the ultimately winner. Looking at Al Gore vs George Bush I still say that was true. We become so focused on winning we never think what we are winning.

Next year when Pluto comes back to a direct opposition to US Mars square Neptune, Saturn goes back and forth across US Mercury and oppose US Pluto, Uranus squares his natal position in the US chart (an by the way opposes GWB's Mars and squares Kerry's Mars) this country has serious problems to deal with, not the least of which is the corruption in our government and it involves both parties.

If, over the next two months, we can get a handle on the voting machines and all things being equal, I will say Kerry wins because of what I DON'T see in his chart. If Bush wins believe me, he will wish he had thought a bit longer about what he was winning.

If you want to make a change, work for your local politicians. Send a Democratic House and Senate back to Washington, that's where the power will lie.

Here is something else for you folks interested in how foreign press/people view the 2004 U.S. election and how important it is to them. Comments are not very favorable - but we already knew that. "While the World Watches" - Dick Gordon's - "The Connection", Friday, Sept. 3. You can listen on the internet if your can make it work. I can't from here but listened to the program last night. Very, Very good. Very detailed. The political editor of the U.K.'s "Daily Mirror" (conservative) was one of the guests.

I forgot: theconnection.org

Oh, I wish I had made note of the witty man who posted this recently on a political blog so I could give due credit:

"George W. Bush is like King Midas in reverse--everything he touches turns to shit."

In light of Kitty Kelley's book which will be out in about a week or so, I was curous about the 12th ("Hidden") house of the Bushes. We know about Smirky's, of course, but I also looked at Poppy and at Old Warhorse herself. Poppy has natal Neptune 18 in the 12th, along with north node at 25, in Leo. (BTW, Mars is in Aquarius at 25.) "Bar" has Uranus in her 12th, at 25 Pisces. (BTW, she also has that natal Moon-Pluto opp. Ouch!).

Interesting that, among these three anyway, the 12th house is populated. (Mine's empty, so I have no personal experience to draw upon.)

I hope someone else around here takes a look at Laura Bush's solar return chart.I think they will be as pleased as I was.

It is blatently obvious her husband is going to take a major hit near her birthday.

And it is obvious even from her natal chart that her husband becaue of his looseing ways causes her great pain.

Astrology is real. It is not wishful thinking here on the part of some astrologers that think Bush is going to loose.

Here is a little more on U.S./Euro/U.K. relations:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections2004/comment/story/0,14259,1290308,00.html

That's very reassuring Chas. Chas, could you analyze and find out if Clinton be OK, after the
next tuesday operation? Does he have longevity in
his natal chart?

http://www.thenation.com/docprint.mhtml?i=20040920&s=alterman

'We Lie. We Decide.'

[from the September 20, 2004 issue]

TIM RUSSERT: But, Senator, when you testified before the Senate, you talked about some of the hearings you had observed at the Winter Soldiers meeting, and you said that people had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and on and on. A lot of those stories have been discredited, and in hindsight was your testimony...

JOHN KERRY: Actually, a lot of them have been documented.

TIM RUSSERT: So you stand by that?

      --NBC's Meet the Press, April 18

Take a look at the exchange above and see if you can figure out what the hell is going on. Tim Russert is questioning John Kerry about his 1971 Senate testimony, in which Kerry recounted testimony he had heard of war crimes committed in Vietnam by US troops at the so-called Winter Soldier Investigation in January/February of that year. The fact that such crimes were committed by US troops is indisputable. My Lai happened. The Toledo Blade ran a Pulitzer Prize-winning exposé of the "Tiger Force" murders just days before Russert asked his question. As even Gen. Tommy Franks told an unhappy Sean Hannity, the "things Kerry said are undeniable." Indeed, Russert's question itself admitted this. For if only "a lot" of the atrocity stories were discredited, according to Russert, then at least some of them must be true. The entire exchange is therefore purposely pointless--both gratuitous and nonsensical--except as a means to try to embarrass Kerry for having had the courage to testify to uncomfortable truth more than thirty years earlier.

More...

I have some really good news. The polls are biased. The Newsweek poll, at least, I don't know about the Time poll, but they polled more Repubs than Dems.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x746148

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x746756

Some folks walk in a fog of ignorance... one doesn't meditate on one's knees...

Jo, I think you nailed Joe/BJ on that one. Good job! Sometimes I think it's good that we get a troll so that we can learn how to shut them down.

I hope you are all right about Clinton being okay. We need him more than for this election. IMHO we need him for the world. Hopefully, his work is not yet complete!

I was listening to Book TV hosted by American Compass, a conservative book club. The usual suspects including John Fund were talking about their books. I heard something quite striking. In talking about the media, they called what we are use to in this country as media, "old media", and what we have right now since the FCC has allowed the monopolization of media, "new media". Old media - looser, new media - winner.

Wow.

Here is one serious article, not from the new media of course.

http://tinyurl.com/5tj2d

FBI informed White House of Israeli intelligence probe two years ago

Bush as Lone Ranger....Blumenthal

http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,5008263-112564,00.html

Here's a bit of good news I hadn't thought of (if it was already noted here, I missed it). I just got off the phone with my cousin in Miami and she told me that the last 2 (maybe 3) nights of the RNC were pre-empted by hurricane reporting. I wonder how much of Florida had that happen?

re: B.J. (err...'suave Joe')

B.J. says "Astropro, Astro Insight, Planet Waves, Star IQ....and many many more astrology sites” support Bush's win. how enlightening and who cares. i'm a consumer of astrology. much of this field is muddled and just a few steps up from a carnival midway. when i look at an astrology site, i ask 'would i trust these people, intellectually, emotionally, and spiritually? this is the only site of those mentioned that would meet all three of those criteria. i also ask, would I hire anyone there for a consultation? while my astro guru does not contribute here (that i know of), i’d be very inclined to use the services of folks here! (none of the sites mentioned by BJ meet that standard (and i do have exquisite taste).

B.J. should visit not only this site but nancy's. he/she should also review the work on the primaries here. there are a lot of 'B.J.' class astrologers out there; there only a few 'Rob Hand class' astrologers and those folk are here.

thus ends the sermon.

adios B.J. if you come back, behave in a civil fashion, s’il vous plait!

Skylurker, well as this thread has moved on, I am just posting this for whomever is still catching up....I asked the question about "namaste" because I knew it would show BJ up.....and thank you for posting the meaning of "I bow to you"....especially since BJ approached the board with a less than namaste attitude....not the best way to start a relationship....by being supercilious.

Judi wrote:

"I have a brain freeze going on and can't figure out what OBL is....Sharon, great story on Clinton, though. Couldn't find out what you were talking about on OBL at DU....sorry, stupidly frozen now....beep beeep beeeeep!"

Well, no wonder! If this is any guide:

0 - Number of times Bush mentioned Osama bin Laden in his three State of the Union addresses.

83 - Number of times Bush mentioned Saddam, Iraq, or regime (as in change) in his three State of the Union addresses.

(From "Bush By The Numbers" - posted earlier)

BTW - I think you all were very rude to B.J. who was clearly not a troll, not Joe, and not even a Bush supporter!

At the risk of being shot down in flames, let me say that I too can see Bush winning in November. Nothing astrological to back it up. This is just my vibe after watching his speech and Kerry's response. Please note that I am not an American, don't live there and definitely do not have a dog in this hunt. I don't think that a Bush victory will be good for America or the world, but I'm just not feeling Kerry.

Sorry...

no need apologize for your intuition. b.j. copped a condescending rude attitude. the attitude, not his opinion, generated the response which i think was quite civilized. this forum is a community of people who are highly respectful and supportive of each other. if someone even thinks they've offended someone else, they correct the situation quickly. whether or not 'b.j.' is joe, his attitude was disruptive and people responded in an expected fashion. they have no need to apologize either.

mars, OBL Osama Ben Laden

I got it - it was for Judi's benefit. Just saying that I wasn't suprised since B*sh hasn't mentioned his name for about a year or more. It's all that Moqtada Al Sadr's fault anyway...

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