Back to Astroworld Weblog

Looking Inside The RNC Convention by Isabelle Ghaneh

As a writer of astrology articles (and other things too) I know that different writing markets demand different approaches. An astrology publication aimed for the masses for instance, really wants to be able to give astrology to people on an easy to understand basis, giving them enough information to enable them to see themselves and their loved ones in the profiles, but without going into all the ins and outs of the discipline. That makes sense for that market

For other more technically evolved astrological publications, the inner working of a chart needs to be made manifest, so the more intricate aspects of astrology, the how’s and why’s, can be understood and grasped. That makes sense too, since astrology has many different components; houses, cusps, fixed stars, aspects, etc., that complete the picture.

The RNC is due to open at 10:00 a.m. on Monday August 30th in New York City, with the astrological signatures of the Sun in Virgo, an ascendant in Libra and the Moon in Pisces. At first glance that would seem to give a good balance of earth, air and water, leaving out fire of course. But a closer look at the chart tells a different story.

The Moon is opposite the Sun by just 6 degrees, in fact, after opposing it in it’s monthly Full Moon aspect. So the energy of the opposition is in full swing just 12 or so hours later. The aspect of the Full Moon is one of closure, of letting something go, of cleaning out one’s closets. It can also be a closing off of aspects of one’s self to the determent of that individual or organization. Those of us who are more inclined to becoming enmeshed in the mysteries of the universe can use the knowledge to work with it, to let go what must be let go and not to allow themselves to become shut off. But that takes awareness.

In this chart I see a lot of closure, of being closed off. Again, for those of us who have these aspects in our charts by natal birth or transit, it does not mean we are as closed off as the RNC will be, it just means we can becoming alien from ourselves if we allow ourselves to do that. Hopefully we won’t and will allow the knowledge to make us grow more aware of ourselves and others. Sometimes though that doesn’t happen.

In this chart there is a lot of repression, restriction and cancellation. Cancellation of one’s self, one’s identity, and one’s sense of unity with others. The aspect of the Moon in Pisces, a sign of compassion opposite Sun in Virgo, sign of duty and service, says it all. The aspect of the Venus and Saturn conjunction, has the coldness of Saturn coupled with the love principal; again this aspect shows the hardness and coldness of heart in this chart. Conjoined across the 10th house cusp, the career and status placement house, which already resonates with the Capricorn echo, again reaffirms the money, power, status and only for the elite theme, no matter the message the Republicans attempt to convince others with.

Chiron the wounded healer is at he bottom of the chart, opposite the tenth and conjunct the fourth, again, this shows the need for healing in the U.S. at a very deep ground roots level and the opposition it is incurring from the 10th house and Venus and Saturn. It’s not a nice little aspect, not for the un-elites of this society, whose name is legion.

Mercury is in Leo, the sign of the king, and going backwards, so the double speak of the king and the king’s men will be evident for those who have ears to hear. They are simply lying when they say they are the party of compassion, no two ways about it. They care for themselves and that’s it. And those in the upper classes.

Every bill they have sponsored and passed is fitted to the benefit of the rich. The RNC has used the children of the poor to fight in Iraq. It is a base and ignominious use of the poor’s children, fighting a bloody and disastrous war. Millions of the working class members of society have had their pensions stolen and spent in high profile corporate theft. Te new overtime law designed to make paychecks even smaller, will help corporation heads, not the workers themselves. These actions and more besides show the true colors of this regime.

Pluto going direct this day and on the third house cusp can show that the deeper darker image of the true Republican Party can be shown by the mass media and by the neighborhood demonstrations around the convention center. They are not fooling all the people all the time no matter how stupid they think the American people are. Just this past week Colin Powell had to cancel his trip to the Greek Olympics since a protest there threatened to ignite into further violence if he came. The banner unfurled at the site near the Acropolis “Powell Killer Go Home” spoke volumes.

One final note: The Vertex of this chart is at 19 degrees of Taurus and Taurus is ruled by Venus, the ruler of Libra, and as such the ruler of the chart. The Vertex shows a fated point in a chart, something to take note of and see what it can tell us. The Vertex is right on the cusp of the 8th house, the house ruled by Pluto, the house of Scorpio, the house of sex , death, regeneration and all things that spook us and our inner selves. It is the house of the demons in our view, which many times is of course, ourselves.

If we can really see what we value through Taurus, how we want to manage our resources, and those things, people and places we hold dear, we can better determine for ourselves a way out of this 4 years of madness and move on to a better tomorrow.


Even the most lone voice telling the truth is as one small light in the darkness.


Sally Cheyne McDonald on Aug 31 | Link
Comments

Even in all my naivete, I can tell that is one strange chart. Venus and Saturn conj on the midheaven, opp Chiron. Well, do tell!

Sun-moon opposition? Do tell some more!

And the lies! Smirky seems to have hoof-and-mouth disease, too, saying stoopider things lately ("catastrophic success," "can't win the war on terra," etc.) McCain? Sheesh!

Lies and spin, spin and lies.

Beautiful, succinct article, Sally. Many, many thanks for it and for all you do for us.

Posted by: shylurker on August 31, 2004 04:49 AM

Psssst, Sally! I am so proud to be the first poster but I'm wondering: Where are all my friends? I guess they turned in earlier this evening than they usually do.

Posted by: shylurker on August 31, 2004 05:08 AM

Isabelle, very timely, and I have to say closure is the perfect picture of what I have seen so far. I'm still reeling from the limited time I could give to actually watching the last two speeches from McCain and old Rudy. Absolutely vile. They have nothing they can brag about except the bullhorn Bush used at the site of the towers.

Closure. Please America, let us give these most pitiful excuses for leaders closure. Say bye bye, and let us really govern as we should.

Posted by: Pat C on August 31, 2004 05:24 AM

I'd much rather be reading interesting and enlightening articles in this forum than watching those GOP hypocrites ----Looks like Michael Moore is right up there with Saddam now!

Michael Moore Draws McCain Barb, Taunts from Crowd

By Joe Strupp

Published: August 30, 2004

NEW YORK The biggest commotion at the Republican National Convention Monday night occurred just before 10 p.m. with the entrance of filmmaker Michael Moore, who was repeatedly halted by security attempting to reach his reserved press seat in section #340 facing the side of the stage. Moore is writing a daily column this week for USA Today.

Then, after taking his seat, he watched as Senator John McCain referred to a certain "disingenuous film-maker who would have us believe that Saddam's Iraq was an oasis of peace," and seemed to glance at Moore above him. Much of the audience erupted in boos and then, turning to Moore, many delegates chanted "Four more years!"

Moore exclaimed, "Two more months!" He also said, "I can't believe they'd mention the film and help the box office.

"http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000621414

Posted by: KAP on August 31, 2004 05:27 AM

Isabelle, thank you!

Watched part of McCain's speech tonight--his take on the last 3+ years was so strange, through the looking-glass sort of backwards image. And the audience response was weird--the applause sounded very muted when McCain was praising Bush (maybe some fault with the sound system?) and only seemed enthuastic when he alluded critically to Michael Moore, who is at the convention and reacted with his usual aplomb.

I've spent the last part of the day cleaning out closets. And regarding your next to last paragraph about our resources, was reading this morning more about Peak Oil and the big changes/shift we are all going to need to deal with. The outcome will be a better, fairer way of living, I hope.

Posted by: Barbara on August 31, 2004 05:33 AM

It was quite a destructive night.

Posted by: Pat C on August 31, 2004 05:37 AM

KAP, just saw your post. Thanks for mentioning USA Today--I didn't know about Moore being their correspondent. Will have to pick up a copy tomorrow morning.

Posted by: Barbara on August 31, 2004 05:45 AM

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/2004-08-30-moore-gopamerica_x.htm

The GOP doesn't reflect America
Michael Moore, Filmmaker
NEW YORK — Welcome, Republicans. You're proud Americans who love your country. In your own way, you want to make this country a better place. Whatever our differences, you should be commended for that.

But what's all this talk about New York being enemy territory? Nothing could be further from the truth. We New Yorkers love Republicans. We have a Republican mayor and governor, a death penalty and two nuclear plants within 30 miles of the city.

New York is home to Fox News Channel. The top right-wing talk shows emanate from here — Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly among them. The Wall Street Journal is based here, which means your favorite street is here. Not to mention more Fortune 500 executives than anywhere else.

You may think you're surrounded by a bunch of latte-drinking effete liberals, but the truth is, you're right where you belong, smack in the seat of corporate America and conservative media.

More...

Posted by: Pat C on August 31, 2004 06:14 AM

Ha! Ha! Thanks, Pat C. Does Michael Moore have a gift or what?

Posted by: Barbara on August 31, 2004 06:26 AM

"There was a rich person who had a great deal of money. He said, 'I shall invest my money so that I may sow, reap, plant, and fill my storehouses with produce, *that I man lack nothing*.' These were the things he was thinking in his heart, but that very night he died. Whoever has ears should hear." (#63, Gospel of Thomas)

Wonderful article Isabelle!!!

Posted by: mike on August 31, 2004 06:26 AM

He sure does Barbara! He's a good guy to have at your back but a terrible guy to have against you. I'm glad he's on my side.

Posted by: Pat C on August 31, 2004 06:39 AM

Good post Mike and one we could all think about.

Posted by: Sally on August 31, 2004 06:42 AM

and now, for all you NEOCON fans, a little levity:

http://www.geocities.com/asheville4kerry/

you won't want to miss this.

Posted by: mike on August 31, 2004 06:44 AM

http://tinyurl.com/53klj

Actress Rosario Dawson Arrested at Anti-Bush March

Actress Rosario Dawson, arrested at an anti-Bush march has been charged with two counts of disorderly conduct and the obstruction of governmental administration, officials said on Monday.

Dawson, 25, and Vija Grosgalves, 28, were filming a scene for the independent film "Medium Cool" in Manhattan on Sunday, using protests by thousands of protesters marching past Madison Square Garden as a backdrop.

Police nabbed the pair, alleging that they were "both masked" and used handkerchiefs "with only the area around their eyes showing," according to a criminal complaint filed in Manhattan Criminal Court.

City laws bar protesters from hiding their identity with masks.

When their director, Stephen Marshall, 36, showed officers that they had a legitimate film permit issued by the city, police handcuffed him, too, and hauled the three away to be processed. Police said Marshall did not have a valid permit.

The three were released early Monday after they were arraigned. They are due back in court in November. If convicted, they each face up to a year in jail at Rikers Island.

Dawson, a New York-born actress, appears alongside Colin Farrell and Angelina Jolie in Oliver Stone's upcoming costume epic film "Alexander." Her other credits include "Shattered Glass," "Men in Black II" and "The Adventures of Pluto Nash."

Posted by: Pat C on August 31, 2004 06:58 AM

Thank you Isabelle for your insightful interpretations. Sigh, couldn't sleep at all last nite. Guess the full moon is getting to me as well, Old Granny. BushWorld is a scarey place. It's amplification during the RNC is messing with my nerves. I am fearful of them going into Iran next, starting another war to keep their power.

Turning on the radio and listening to Coast to Coast am, helps me to sleep, sometimes. But last night, even that didn't help, so I actually listened to the show and this Merlin angle. Since I am looking for hope anywhere I can find it, here is this little tidbit from the show.

http://www.coasttocoastam.com/shows/2004/08/30.html#recap

Forecasting Technology
Futurist, Paul Guercio, along with SDI (Star Wars) physicist, Dr. George Hart returned to the show to discuss the Merlin Project, their scientifically-based forecasting technology, which uses a person's birthdate. It's a "highly distilled method of astrology," that is computerized, said Hart, which can give you a detailed graph outlining the biggest moments in your life, Guercio added. Their future timelines find levels of "eventfulness" but doesn't rate them as good or bad, he continued.

Based on their methodology, they are also able to chart global situations. In Iran, for instance, they see a high level of activity between 2004-2006, which may indicate some type of attack. Concerning the elections, George W. Bush's chart tapers off after this year, while both Kerry and Edwards' are on the rise for the next 8 years, Guercio noted.

Posted by: Shade on August 31, 2004 11:52 AM

The convention chart mirrors exactly what i heard last night. (Great article!) Like others, i cringed when tuned in. A rethug rep from New Mexico telling the sad tale of a brave airman who died to save others then launched into this rah-rah for our troops. Applause, applause, smiles, smiles, and i cried. The audacity using another's death to rally voters is sick at best, even more disturbing that the speaker seemed to have no clue the distortion.

By the way all, our good friend and rabble rouser is being charged with some pretty heinous crimes, one of which is a felony in NY. His supposed acts were to have occured near the burning of the papier mache dragon (no i didn't make it but wish i had!). John was two blocks from the incident.

More later on this as we'll all need help getting him out not to mention obtaining a competent attorney.

karen

Posted by: farrout on August 31, 2004 12:23 PM

Someone upthread commented yesterday about the Repugs disenfranchising the Blacks again in November as they did in 2000. There’s another battle we thought was over. Actually as a Black sister said speaking to County Democrats last week, “racism is still the elephant in the room nobody speaks about when discussing politics today” — for it is what drew Southerns from the Dems to the Repubs and it is what draws them to Bush today. Make no mistake about it... the invasion of Iraq was ‘okay’ for many Americans because we were bombing people of color.

All of these battles I thought we had won: the end of segregation, the rise of women as equals, the protection of the environment and Mother earth... birth control and the rights of women to decide for themselves... freedom of speech... But the rise of the Neocons in the Bush Administration has put those issues in reverse movement. How? The ‘fear factor’ [TV constantly manifests and mirrors our collective psyche] and psych ops are one of the main tools.

Even the wonder of ½ million people protesting in New York City, walking past the meeting hall of the Neopublicans was as a ‘momentary aberration’ — for now we are mesmerized by the theatrics of a handful... a handful of ‘men’ compared to hundreds of thousands. No, actually millions have marched in protest anywhere this pResident and his Men have gone on the planet outside the USA...

Juan Cole and Josh Marshall are filling their columns with information that should have shaken this country to the marrow of its bone... but no... the events they speak to are being covered in the NYTimes and Washington Post and other media as not involving the likes of Rummy, or Cheney or the shrub.

Me, myself and I are having a conference this morning. Having decided to ‘let go’ of the need to control the micro or macro workings of the universe, focus is returning to where it is needed. To the raising of consciousness and the hope that as the numbers of enlightened entities in the group increases, the collective will be more enlightened. The RNConvention, the polls, the theatrics of a few can not affect the consciousness of the many unless we allow it.

November 2 has become for me some kind of a fixed goal... in hindsight, I believe it is an unrealistic date and an unrealistic goal. Transiting Pluto is moving Direct and kicking up the dirt... Again. When Kerry is elected the Media will still be Fascist, with almost ½ of the country tuned into it, kicking and screaming at the results of the election. Flip the result of the election, and you have a Fascist State in control of those who will give up their power, and more than ½ of us kicking and screaming.

Morgana has seen it in so many Full Moon charts... the power of the people. Isabelle has looked ‘inside’ the workings of the RNConvention and found it to be totally different from the illusion presented in the outer theatrics. Will the 'people' see the difference?

“Just still the thoughts in your mind. It is good to do this right in the midst of disturbance. When you are working on this, penetrate the heights and the depths.”

- Yuan wu (1063-1135)

Namaste

Posted by: Jo on August 31, 2004 04:05 PM


Kerry a hero after the war....

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/gate/archive/2004/08/30/hsorensen.DTL&type=printable

Posted by: wv on August 31, 2004 04:17 PM

http://www.occupationwatch.org/article.php?id=6434

If this dosen't get the media's attention and blow wide open the corruption of this administration, nothing will. $8 BILLION GONE MISSING IN IRAQ?

Posted by: soulchild on August 31, 2004 04:26 PM


I've been following the missing money Soulchild for about 8 months when it was first raised and that 8 billion only covers what's missing, it doesn't cover the fraud investigations or the over-charges. This is getting ridiculous, do the media personalities think they are going to share, maybe that's why they don't report the truth?

I wonder if they will report on it, after all we have they think they have the really important convention in town and they are all a flutter over that.

The energy begins to shift away from GWB toward Kerry the end of September, continuing to pick up steam in October. Until then we will have to continue to grit our teeth and wonder why.

I love the input from "Merlin" on GWB because that fits with his astrological chart. The timing is so close and will his star fall before or immediately after Nov. 2.

Posted by: Sally on August 31, 2004 04:44 PM

Thank you Isabelle for providing such a profound insight into the RNC. I don't have a television and life is a little on the slanted side at the moment, so I'm just picking up here and there what's going on. Seems like every time I run across a reference to the RNC it just adds to the surreal quality of my day. Bush says we can't win the war on terror. What??? He's running as a compassionate conservative. Excuse me?!?!? Is he off his medication or something? And McCain is screaming at Michael Moore in the rafters? What the hell is going on in NYC? This article confirms the message I'm getting, there are some deeply weird undercurrents floating around in NYC right now.

I simply cannot connect the RNC to my present reality. I've been watching the news since the day Bush took office. I've seen environmental laws get dismantled, the middle and working class get screwed, the wealthy get even more obscenely rich, liars in the media who have just lost their grip of reality, the war based on lies that I knew were lies before it even started, torture, beheadings and through it all the President just grins, shrugs and keeps pouring gas on the fire.

No matter how the Grand Old Party spins it, I've seen these things with my own eyes. I've felt the pain in my heart and my mind as his policies of greed, arrogance, narcissism and fascism have distorted my country and made the world bleed. The Republicans simply have nothing of value to offer. No amount of spin or hype changes this.

A Republican can't enjoy a good meal unless he knows someone somewhere else is starving. That is the Republican party platform and everyone with a brain in their head knows it. They can pump up the hype as much as they want but it doesn't change reality.

Namaste~
~D

Posted by: Dommael on August 31, 2004 05:35 PM

Drudge has a FLASH:

Resident Bush will be on Limbaugh's show at 2 p.m. Eastern time.

Posted by: Pat C on August 31, 2004 05:37 PM

Isabelle's piece is right on....a great distillation of the current turning point of our country. And still half the country turns a deaf ear. How loud does it have to get, I wonder?!!!

But I also agree with Jo....Nov 2 is a huge turning point, but we will still be left with a powerful fascist neopublican element which will not go quietly into the night. The teeth and claws will nash and thrash .... Jon Stewart 's comment on Cheney blaming Kerry/Edwards for the 2 votes that weren't given to get his energy bill out of committee: " What, you own all three branches of government, both houses of congress, the Supreme Court and the White House and you are blaming it on these two knuckleheads?"

It isn't going to be pretty, that's for sure.

PS...off topic....the new Apple iMac G5 was finally revealed....I did work on the advertising several months ago and was knocked out by it....it is elegant and gorgeous....and simple. But I couldn't tell anyone about it....non disclosures signed to do the work....if you are in the market for a new computer, this one is amazing.

Posted by: judi on August 31, 2004 05:51 PM

At what exact time does Rx Mercury go direct? I have seen a couple of different dates for Mercury going in direct motion - some say it happens on 9/2 and others on 9/3. Does dimson give his acceptance speech during Rx Mercury or after it has turned direct?

Also, wouldn't it stand to reason that all the swift boat crap would bommerang on the repugs after Mercury goes direct, since the controvery really got ugly during the Rx?

Posted by: Susan on August 31, 2004 06:01 PM

A Republican can't enjoy a good meal unless he knows someone somewhere else is starving. .....love it! Talk about cutting to the core, Dommael!

I flashed on something this morning....re the poster known as the troll....who shall remain nameless, but you know who I am talking about....and this is about astrology.

Anyone who has looked at the pattern made by charts, the shapes, knows how diverse our realities are based on how the planets are distributed. The troll blamed me for not taking responsibility for my own actions....so if he actually knew anything about astrology, he would have known that some people have all of their planets in the "daylight" or upper hemisphere, and that all of those people have a response to the actions of everyone else on the planet. They must cooperate and hope for cooperation with others. They cannot eat a good meal and enyoy the poverty of others, as they know that everything they do affects others, and vice versa.

Those with a more balanced chart would understand how lucky they are to have both viewpoints, subjective and objective, but those with NO planets in the public houses more than likely will be so subjective that only their own processes are real to them, and they may not have the insight into what cooperation means. Of course, any person with either of these extremes can use their lessons in a positive or negative way.

I wonder if there is a correlation with Democratic and Republican leanings? What a study that would make. And my favorite example of a lopsided chart is Bob Dylan's....but I didn't find an online reference to it for posting....if I remember right, he has all the planets dumped into the 11th/12th houses. What a creative use he made of that!

Posted by: judi on August 31, 2004 06:06 PM

not sure what you flashed on. I know WHO you flashed on, unless your flash
was the full meal while others go hungry.

Posted by: judi on August 31, 2004 06:15 PM

Judi, if you're a mac guru can you help Bahkti she can't post using her mac.

Posted by: Morgana on August 31, 2004 06:26 PM

argh!!! that last confused post was ME
confused...!!
mimi

Posted by: mimi on August 31, 2004 06:28 PM

Mimi, the process of flashing on something is so interesting....obviously stuff in the unconscious which has been "fermenting" and then the top gets popped. Because the troll's post was eliminated by Sally, I was given the gist of it by someone else....I had posted about losing my house, that whole long story, under Geo I in 1990....what I guess I left out was that the Bush economic plans are disasterous for most of us, whether it was Geo 1 or Geo 2. I was trying to say, that I was a good example of people losing everything due to forces outside of their own control (and my chart has all planets from 7 thru 11 houses, except for my Mars in 6....so I tend to feel that external forces control me. I still do, it is a difficult feeling to get over (and I get nailed on it all the time - or as the troll was implying, it is everyone else's fault but mine). (Bob Dylan, also a Gemini for 3 years older, has a very extremely tight stellium of planets in 11/12....and he was very creative about how he used the energy in his song lyrics...."you know somethings happening but you don't know what it is, do you Mr. Jones...."

And that is what I flashed on....and now that I've written about Mr. Jones, I realize that should be MY anthem....I always know something is happening, but rarely do I know what it is.....hahahahahahh.....sob.

So astrologically, I was wondering if having an "extreme" chart with all the planets in the public half of the chart gives one the feeling of being controlled by events outside of one's control; those with charts where planets are in the subjective, personal half are insistant that they can control everything because it is all about THEIR perceptions; and then the charts with a good distribution gives people who are the moderates and progressives, who can see both sides....thereby giving us all of our political spectrum via astrology.

Posted by: judi on August 31, 2004 07:51 PM

I wanted to add that Isabelle's piece really shows how the process of astrological events mirror those who are activated by those events....she wrote:

In this chart there is a lot of repression, restriction and cancellation.

The mirror to me seems to be the laws they pass and try to pass....full of repression, restriction and CANCELLATION!

Posted by: judi on August 31, 2004 07:57 PM

OK, Dommael, now you've posted the best quote of the week. I thought I was going to do it, but here--going for the Silver--is my nomination for the second best quote of the week:

"This president has gone from 'mission accomplished' to 'mission miscalculated' to 'mission impossible' on the war on terror." Kerry spokesman Phil Singer said.

Posted by: Barbara on August 31, 2004 08:00 PM

Morganna....I'm not a Mac Guru.....or a guru of anykind, because guru energy is dangerous! hahahah...

It seems to me there must be a configuration problem of somekind. Or it may be a very old Mac? The operating system may be unable to deal with the security codes....I am getting that this happened the need to put security codes in place....

When I was doing the work for Apple on the new G5, I couldn't get any of the photos they sent me on email because my operating system is OS9.2.2....and the newer Panther OSX has 128 bit incryption, while mine is only 8bit I think. So I couldn't open any secured files....even with a password (everything I needed to do the work was burned on a CD and hand delivered to me because of that.)

But without talking to Bhakti, I wouldn't have a clue.....that is email, this is internet....

Posted by: judi on August 31, 2004 08:23 PM

yuck, this is how the sentence should have read:
I am getting that this happened when the need to put security codes was put into place....

My daughter just told me I am spacey all the time...its true.

Posted by: judi on August 31, 2004 08:25 PM

Well, from Gotham City comes this email from my ex, reporting on atmosphere and passing parades:
Strange days, the song goes. The city has a strange quietude, in fact. there is such a police presence that one wonders if this is a big central casting coup rather than every cop in the hemisphere on the streets of Gotham. Me and some pals were going to go "see the march" on Sunday but chose instead to remain on the perimeters at a delightful little wine tasting bistro and talk politics and chardonnays. The passing parade was actually very colorful and I was delighted to see whole families participating, moms dads kids, all together now. swell.

Posted by: judi on August 31, 2004 08:30 PM

This is a day of complete wrong headedness for me....Bob Dylan's chart is the exact opposite of how I remembered it....the tight bundle of planets is 5 /6 houses....making his words extremely subjective!

I think I will review my life now......I think I may have been too long in Alice's world....

Posted by: judi on August 31, 2004 08:41 PM

These are important times Judi, so it makes sense it is important for you.

What a life. I got this from a good friend.

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "...holy shit...what a ride!" - Kathy Kelly

YES INDEED!

Posted by: Pat C on August 31, 2004 08:53 PM

SWIFT BOAT VET GOT $40M CONTRACT FROM BUSH

The Bush White House has denied any connection to the Swift Boat Veterans
for Truth[1] - the group that has been airing factually unsupportable smear
ads against Sen. John Kerry's war record. But a new report today shows that
one of the key accusers in the smear ads was a lobbyist for a company that
recently received a massive federal contract from the Bush administration.

As the Washington Post reports, Rear Admiral William L. Schachte Jr., the
man who claims Kerry was not under fire when he received his first Purple
Heart, is a top lobbyist for a defense contractor that recently won a $40
million grant from the Bush administration. According to a March 18 legal
filing by Schachte's firm, Blank Rome, Schachte was one of the lobbyists
working for FastShip's effort to secure federal contracts.[2] On Feb. 2,
FastShip announced the Bush administration had awarded it $40 million.[3]

Schachte has other connections to the Bush administration. The Washington
Post notes David Norcross, Schachte's colleague in the Washington office of
Blank Rome, is chairman of this week's Republican convention in New York.[4]
Records show that Schachte gave $1,000 to Bush's 2000 and 2004 campaigns.[5]
Additionally, Schachte helped organize veterans' efforts against Sen. John
McCain (R-AZ) and for Bush in the 2000 South Carolina primary.[6]

This is not the first member of the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth who has
been revealed to be connected to the President. The Bush-Cheney campaign's
top outside lawyer was forced to resign after he admitted providing legal
services to the veterans group.[7] The Bush-Cheney campaign's veterans
adviser was also featured in one of the smear ads.[8]


Sources:

1. "Press Gaggle by Scott McClellan," WhiteHouse.gov, 8/20/04,
http://daily.misleader.org/ctt.asp?u=1143772&l=52656.
2. "A Swift Shift in Stories," Washington Post, 8/31/04,
http://daily.misleader.org/ctt.asp?u=1143772&l=52657.
3. "FastShip, Inc. to Receive $40 million in Federal Support for Marine
Cargo Terminal in Philadelphia," FastShipAtlantic.com, 2/02/04,
http://daily.misleader.org/ctt.asp?u=1143772&l=52658.
4. "A Swift Shift in Stories," Washington Post, 8/31/04,
http://daily.misleader.org/ctt.asp?u=1143772&l=52657.
5. OpenSecrets.org, 8/04,
http://daily.misleader.org/ctt.asp?u=1143772&l=52659.
6. Charleston Post & Courier, 2/17/2000.
7. "Bush-Cheney Lawyer Advised Anti-Kerry Vets," Washington Post, 8/25/04,
http://daily.misleader.org/ctt.asp?u=1143772&l=52660.
8. "Bush Campaign Drops Swift Boat Ad Figure," Washington Post, 8/22/04,
http://daily.misleader.org/ctt.asp?u=1143772&l=52661.

Posted by: Pat C on August 31, 2004 09:07 PM


Mercury will go direct in the morning of Sept. 2nd and it will probably still be stationary direct when he gives his speech and that's pretty powerful, however Kerry had powerful aspects when he accepted his nomination

Posted by: Sally on August 31, 2004 09:12 PM

So, with Merc Stationary Direct at the time he gives his speech, but still coming off a Retrograde period, what kind of energy (other than powerful) is that for BelzeeBush to work with? "Good"? "Bad"?

Posted by: Jonathan on August 31, 2004 09:50 PM

A very unsettling article at Buzzflash concerning the Machiavellian Karl Roves
plans and vision for the future of America. Does the astrological chart for this deceitful, cunning, damaged little man suggest a possible waterloo in his future? This guy really is really frightening ---much like Hitler.


"KARL ROVE'S MASTER PLAN: A ONE-PARTY AMERICA"

When Rove has finally dried up the lifeblood of the Democratic Party, he will guide the president and congress in a direction that begins to bleed the federal government of its money.

Eventually, the Washington bureaucracy will be a vestigial organ, a government that cannot govern because it has no money. There will be no social programs to help the poor. Businesses will develop risky products without the risk of liability and the great institutions, which have nurtured the growth of our nation, will begin to falter and fail.

This, of course, has already begun to happen. We move closer each day to an imperial presidency and a one party nation while Section 8 Housing for the poor is reduced and more homeless are created and state governments are given the option to bail out of Head Start funding, a program the president promised to protect when he was campaigning. As we reduce assistance for the poor, we still manage to send our troops into combat without bulletproof vests or armored plating on their outdated vehicles. But the president smiles and says things are getting better. And we believe him because Americans choose to believe their president.


http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/04/08/con04361.html

Posted by: KAP on August 31, 2004 10:28 PM

Oh my gosh KAP, that article is so devistatingly true. I hope everyone reads it and sends it to people they know.

Posted by: Pat C on August 31, 2004 10:46 PM

Ya'll have all seen this, I assume? (KAP's buzzflash Rove article has a link)

***
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/30/gop.purple.hearts/index.html

Delegates mock Kerry with 'purple heart' bandages

NEW YORK (CNN) -- Delegates to the Republican National Convention found a new way to take a jab at Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry's Vietnam service record: by sporting adhesive bandages with small purple hearts on them.

Morton Blackwell, a prominent Virginia delegate, has been handing out the heart-covered bandages to delegates, who've worn them on their chins, cheeks, the backs of their hands and other places.

Blackwell is president of the Leadership Institute, a nonpartisan educational foundation he founded in 1979. According to its Web site, the institute prepares conservatives for success in politics, government and the news media.

more-
***

Can they sink any lower?
I'm so angry I could spit. This is the party that keeps telling us to "support the troops"? What the hell is WRONG with these people?!?
~D

Posted by: Dommael on August 31, 2004 11:01 PM

A 'must' read [imho]

25 Things We Now Know
Three Years After 9/11

The Republican Party -- in a shameless , all-too-obvious attempt to manipulate the tragedy of 9/11 for partisan ends -- chose New York City for its nominating convention. Must have seemed like a great idea at the time.

Their coming to Manhattan not only infuriates New Yorkers, who were badly played by Bush&Co. after the attacks, but enables the rest of us in the country to use Ground Zero as the backdrop for examining the gross failures and crimes of the Bush Administration since that tragic day in September 2001.

So, here is an update* of things we've learned during the three years since 9/11 -- documented mostly from government papers and respected journalistic accounts -- about the Administration that rules in our names. If you find this compendium useful, you might want to make this list available to your friends and colleagues, especially to those still uncertain which presidential candidate they will vote for ten weeks from now.

More at
http://crisispapers.org/essays/25-things.htm

Posted by: Jo on August 31, 2004 11:03 PM

Pat C,

Doesn't the thought of such a damaged person pulling the strings of a simp like Bush send a chill down your spine. If Rove manages to pull off this election for Bush using his old tricks of character assassination and manipulation of the ignorant . . .the American of the future will look very different from the vision set in motion by the likes of Martin Luther King, JFK and RFK. ****Check out the article listed below. . .gives some insight into Rove****


Kerry Up Against Pluto

The lying Swift Boat Veterans and their cohorts from the Bush Administration are presently the Pluto thugs that are trying to intimidate John Kerry.

http://www.aquilaink.com/secretdiary113.html

Posted by: KAP on August 31, 2004 11:08 PM

Jo,
A great deal of middle American and especially the southern states will begin to resemble Bangladesh within a decade if the Bush Cartel is not stopped. But how do you wake the sleeping gullible when they willing have over dosed on Bushhalcion?

This part of the article effects so many Americans-We know that the HardRight conservatives who control Bush policy don't really care what kind of debt and deficits his policies cause; in some ways, the more the better. They want to decimate and eviscerate popular social programs from the New Deal/Great Society eras, including, most visibly, Head Start, Social Security, Medicare (and real drug coverage for seniors), aspects of public education. Since these programs are so well-approved by the public, the destruction will be carried out stealthily with the magic words of "privatization," "deregulation," "choice" and so on, and by going to the public and saying that they'd love to keep the programs intact but they have no alternative but to cut them, given the deficit, weak economy and "anti-terrorist" wars abroad

Posted by: KAP on August 31, 2004 11:22 PM

Sally, do you mean powerful GOOD or powerful BAD?

Posted by: Lucy on August 31, 2004 11:22 PM

Wow, this thread moves fast - didn't see Jonathan's same question...

Posted by: Lucy on August 31, 2004 11:24 PM

This will cheer everybody up...
http://www.allhatnocattle.net/9-1-04_honor_and_dignity.htm
:-)
~D

Posted by: Dommael on August 31, 2004 11:29 PM

Lucy,

My Leo Rising, Sun in Aries is shouting "How could you NOT see me?!?!?!?!? Grrrr" :-)

Remember, everyone, that Sally, Nancy, et al forecast this period for Bush long ago. If we can get through most of September with our sanity intact (well, what's left of it after the last 4 years), October will seem like a bit of a dream come true. Bush does okay through the middle part of September (I think) and then Kerry picks up steam.

Remeber this! And, if I'm wrong, someone please feel free to correct me. The Leo Rising/Aries Sun in me won't mind. :-)

Posted by: Jonathan on August 31, 2004 11:31 PM

KAP, Pluto energy, yes. But why is Kerry seeming to be so weak at responding. Most Americans want to see the guy they are supporting put up a good fight. He's not; he's half-assing it. Why does he allow these pigs to beat him to the punch in the labeling game. Instead, why not label them first. For starters, label them the "bait and switch" gang, and keep repeating it. And, that's just for starters.

Isabelle, wonderful and timely article.

Posted by: Janet on August 31, 2004 11:41 PM

Janet,

I believe that at his rally's Kerry IS punching back ... and the crowds are roaring their approval! The coverage on the news, though, is a different story. What's important is that people who are attending his rallys and the people they talk to in the days that follow are hearing about a man who IS fighting back and who is calling the Bushes for what they are. I suspect we're just not hearing that angle of the story reported in the news.

Posted by: Jonathan on August 31, 2004 11:44 PM

Wow Jonathan aren't you just absolutely full of fire??!!! Where's your Moon??

Posted by: Laurie on August 31, 2004 11:54 PM

Some pundits have considered the argument for Kerry punching back and labeling, getting in the gutter so to speak --- Rove would throw it back, saying "Look how Kerry is 'losing' it" --- which is what he did to Dean.

Kerry is talking about the issues... the Media refuses to report on that... it is the State Media that is reading Rove's script that is chipping away at Kerry (imho)... in other words, Kerry is doing his job... the media is not...

Consider all the many scandals involving Bush/Cheney and the fact that the media chooses to ignore them...

We have become a Fascist State... imho

Posted by: Jo on August 31, 2004 11:57 PM

Regarding Bush's acceptance speech on Mercury Station, Kerry is going to have a midnight rally in Ohio according to the DU.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x701467

Posted by: Shade on September 1, 2004 12:18 AM

Laurie,

Thank goodness I have a Taurus Moon and a Taurus MC, so it all balances out. Otherwise I'd be bouncing off the walls! Oh wait ... I AM bouncing off the walls. :-) Well, today I am.

Posted by: Jonathan on September 1, 2004 12:30 AM

KAP is does send chills down my spine, but I refuse to give in to that. I refuse. I pray and visualize every day, and inform everybody I can of all that I can, and pray and visualize some more. These really are fascists, These really are dark people. I'm sad for the pain they have had, but this is not ok, and could never be. IMHO, they belong in prison.

Posted by: Pat C on September 1, 2004 12:56 AM

It is going to be a long week. Mercury rx, Pluto station, fullmoon, plus once the RNC is over, the official presidential campaign begins. Hard to believe it hasn't even started yet.

Jo, I agree with you completely, this is a fascist state (gov't controlled by the corporations). And we have a long way to go. 2004 is part of the 72 year cycle of major shifts the USA goes thru. From the Constitution back in 1786-7, the Civil War build up and explosion 1858-60, The Great Depression, 1930-2, to now, 2004-5. It can be difficult to see things when you are in them. We also have the progressed USA sun entering Pisces come Nov. (a 30 year cycle.)

I am not sure in any way, shape or means as to how these changes are going to work out. I just know we as a species are headed into some pretty tough times. The shift is happening now. We have the enviroment, corrupt government, and peak oil, (which really controls how everyone lives as oil is a part of everything from the food we eat to the goods we consume.) I hesitate to even try to discuss what the pluto square uranus transit will mean, closing in around 2011. But no matter what, good things usually come out of the bad. And one has to admit, we do live in interesting times. Even if Kerry wins the election, its going to be an uphill struggle. If Bush manages to steal this election, then the struggle will be even more difficult with more fatalities, perhaps even his own, which is a scenario I ponder, but don't really care for.

Did anyone read about the near miss of Cheney's plane at the beginning of this month? Airforce 2? It's a strange world and a strange time, with realities not only shifting, but colliding as well.

Posted by: Shade on September 1, 2004 12:57 AM

When in danger, fear or doubt--wave your arms and run and shout!

That's what the Repugs are hoping we will do---Danger, danger Will Robinson! e tc. the Kerry campaign is in trouble. Oh Phluuze. This tactic ain't gonna work.

We have already been warned by the great astrologers on this site about the last temporary rise of the Bushies before their fated demise.

BTW--that band-aid stunt just infuriated me--and I'll bet a lot of other people. I sent a hot letter to my local small-town newspaper. It is sort of long (the great thing about small-town newspapers is that they have more space to spare than the big city dailies) but will post here shortly. Just skip over if it is too much.

Posted by: Barbara on September 1, 2004 01:05 AM

Jo,

You and a lot of other people, including myself, think we have entered into a new age of fascist control. . .The sad point is how willingly Americans handed over their democracy without a fight or cognitive realization.

THE UNITED STATES: A MODEL FASCIST STATE


Over the last two decades, in particular during the Reagan years and the last two with George W, the United States is looking less like a democracy and more like a highly evolved fascist creature. Devoid of the idiosyncrasies and shortcomings of its progenitors, this form of Fascism has a propaganda machine that is unarguably the most efficient the world has ever seen. The Bush administration and its primary accomplice, the profit-driven corporate media, have successfully created an alternative reality that they sell to the majority of the American public. For example, roughly 85 percent of the world was opposed to the U.S. led invasion of Iraq. Yet the American propaganda machine somehow convinced 60 percent of Americans that a pathetically weak country 7000 miles away was at any minute going to destroy the United States. Here is the fascist twist. In a normally functioning democracy it would seem that even speculation of a preemptive war would elicit a spectacle of public debate on the implications of such a drastic shift in policy. However, in the United States internal dissenting voices were castigated and characterized as being unpatriotic. The French were stripped of the honorable distinction of being the adjective used to describe America's favorite fast food. Hollywood actors and actresses were blacklisted and reprimanded by studio bosses for being outspoken about their views on the war. This doesn't sound like the model democracy that is so highly espoused in American political science journals.

http://www.mediamonitors.net/girardnewkirk12.html

Posted by: KAP on September 1, 2004 01:05 AM

Looking for email addresses, etc. to bombard the media with your opinions? Here's a link to Kos diary that will get you started.

http://mikepridmore.dailykos.com/story/2004/8/31/132417/938

Posted by: Jo on September 1, 2004 01:08 AM

Shade,

I've believed for a year or so now that America will seen a mass exodus of people who will leave for the European Union, etc. in search of work. That the karma we, as a Nation, built by being a place that strongly welcomed Immigration and gave them the opportunity to build a better life will have to balanced out by we, as a Nation, having to immigrate to other places. I know for a fact that in the not-so-back of my mind, I want to move to Paris if Bush steals the Election. It's not that I don't love my country or don't embrace being an American, but I can't fathom living in an America that BelzeeBush and his Avaricious Gang of Stooges is intent on creating.

So, don't be shocked if you see people leaving the States around 2008-2011 in search of a better life elsewhere.

Just my two cents.

Posted by: Jonathan on September 1, 2004 01:09 AM

Well, I should have said that my comments above referred to some CNN comments about how the Kerry campaign is in trouble. They wish!

Posted by: Barbara on September 1, 2004 01:16 AM

Some encouraging words from MoveOn.org:

After four days of the Republican convention, national polls will likely find President Bush in the lead in the race for the White House. The Bush campaign is banking on using this so-called bounce to claim an early victory.
Of course, this bounce business is a mind game.

Here's why the hype that Bush is winning doesn't stand up to scrutiny:

Nation-wide polls don't matter.
This election will be decided in the 20 or so states that aren't firmly in Bush's camp. So while most national polls--which include voters in Texas and California--show a dead heat between Bush and Kerry, polls of the so-called "battleground states" tell a different story. A bipartisan poll from NPR1 has Kerry leading 52-43% in these states, and Fox News2 reports a 47-37% Kerry lead there.

Historically speaking, Bush is in a very weak position.

Most experts agree that when a president is seeking re-election, most voters first decide whether he deserves re-election, and then look at the challenger. And most voters aren't liking what they see: Bush's approval rating is very low for an incumbent. Even more importantly, in some recent polls a large portion of voters say the country is on the wrong track, a benchmark that is extremely tough to recover from. Bush is not where he needs to be, and even a significant bounce won’t put him there.

In the swing states, the name of the game is turnout.

There are literally millions of people who prefer Kerry to Bush but who are unlikely to vote at all. In fact, there are far more of these folks than there are "swing voters" who haven’t made up their minds yet. Experts on both sides agree that the winner on November 2 will be the candidate who gets his base out in the places where it matters. And it's pretty straightforward to get their attention: we'll call them on the phone, knock on their doors, and invite them to neighborhood house parties. We'll listen to their concerns and talk to them about both candidates' positions on the issues. And we'll remind them repeatedly to show up on Election Day.

Posted by: on September 1, 2004 01:17 AM

Jonathan, I'm so happy for you that you have a wonderful Taurus Moon! I'm curious what house. But Taurus will give you groundation and I bet you are one stubborn so-and-so! But in a very very nice way.

My husband is British - if Bush wins, I say we move to England and live out the rest of our lives there. We are near retirement anyway (10 years) and after 6 weeks living there we would be eligible for healthcare, etc. I would not mind that at all, I have a stellium in the 9th house and foreign countries intrigue me (along with astrology, higher learning, etc.).

I love all you guys.

Posted by: Laurie on September 1, 2004 01:25 AM

Laurie,

My Taurus Moon sits in my 9th House along with a Saturn-Venus conjunction (both in Aries). And I just noticed I have a Natal Venus Rx ... and I have no idea what that means! So, like you, Laurie, I have a love for and fascination of foreign countries, foreign languages and histories of foreign lands. I'm learning French, look forward to learning Italian and am trying (in case I end up living in England) to learn how to love my food covered in batter and deep fried. :-)

Ah, to be wandering through the Cotswolds on a chilly, windy, deliciously cloudy day. (sigh)

P.S. Laurie, if you want to peek at my chart, here you go: 20 March 1969 at 2:55 PM in Seattle, WA

Posted by: Jonathan on September 1, 2004 01:31 AM

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/scripts/printer_friendly.pl?page=/dean/20040831.html

Oh boy John Dean is on the ball

The New Book Attacking Kerry's War Record:
How It Defames the Candidate, and Why He Should Sue
By JOHN W. DEAN
----
Tuesday, Aug. 31, 2004

Vietnam swift boat veteran John O'Neill has picked up just where he left off in his 1971 debate with presidential candidate Senator John Kerry. O'Neill has joined with some of his former Navy comrades to oppose Kerry's candidacy. But this time, O'Neill is interested in a different kind of debate. It is called mudslinging.

The Swiftees-- as these Navy veterans like to call themselves -- have launched a series of vicious negative campaign television ads. The ads are meant to complement O'Neill's book Unfit For Command: Swift Boat Veterans Speak Out Against John Kerry.

O'Neill's coauthor is his old friend Jerome R. Corsi, an experienced mud thrower whose prior targets have been the Pope, Jews and Muslims. In Unfit For Command, they repeat many of the 1971 charges - and add more from other Swiftees. To assert that these stories are biased, one-sided, distorted, and incomplete would be overly kind.

-more-

Posted by: Laurie on September 1, 2004 01:31 AM

Jonathan, if Kerry's message isn't getting through because of the media, what do we do?

Many people aren't like us in that we get our news from many sources; they get it from one: the teevee. About two months visiting my Mom in the hospital, I joined in a conversation between a technical aide (minimum wage worker) and the janitor. The janitor was attempting to convince this tech aide to vote for Kerry. She was adamant that she wouldn't because Kerry "flip-flops." Now, where did she get that term from? Jonathan, all this to say that Kerry needs to get his message out and avoid the labels being stuck to him. Further, he shouldn't have gone on the Daily Show and affirmed the "flip-flop" label. That plays into the public sterotype of him.

Keep in mind, Jonathan and others, I want and need Kerry to win because I don't want to leave this country.

Okay, I'm done ranting. Now, I'll be positive. KERRY WILL WIN, HE WILL TURN HIS SWIFTBOAT INTO THE FIRE, AGAIN, AND BE TRIUMPHANT.

Posted by: Janet on September 1, 2004 01:32 AM

Oh gee Jonathan how kind of you to give me your data, I AM very interested. I also have Venus retrograde, in Virgo. Oh, poor pitiful me. lol.

I know for a fact that most astrologers would look at my chart and go "oh my!' with that placement but I have had so much love in my life that it is unreal. I feel it very strongly and I am a strong person, and I have also felt a lot of hurt but have come through it with much love, honor and gratitude. Saturn in 2 Libra conjunct my late 29 degree Virgo Sun helps, maybe.

I will work your chart because you are an interesting person!

Posted by: Laurie on September 1, 2004 01:36 AM

Jonathan, not much surprises me anymore, well except how stupid some people can be. One of the best lines I heard recently (can't remember where)was that,

"A working American voting for Bush is like a Chicken casting a vote for Col. Sanders."

Posted by: Shade on September 1, 2004 01:41 AM

Laurie,

No need to "work" my chart. Just take a look and use it to learn from. That's how we get better, by looking at chart unfamiliar to us.

Janet,

I understand and respect your frustration. I feel it, at times, too. So, pick up the phone and call your nearest Kerry office and ask who's in charge and why aren't they getting their message out better and quicker? But, remember, August and early- to mid-September were the time the Bushs were going to have their last "Hurrah" and we were advised (here on this Board) not to get too worried. I suspect you'll be feeling better come October. Perhaps the Debates will do more to damage Bush in the Public's Perception of what a President should be than we realize!

Posted by: Jonathan on September 1, 2004 01:42 AM

Jonathan, you're right. Sally, Nancy and the other astrologers have said it time and again and in many different ways, things will get better for Kerry after Sept. So, I'll do a black-out of the convention coverage and just tough it out. Okee-doe-kee. I can do this.

Posted by: Janet on September 1, 2004 01:57 AM

Jonathan, Laurie ---

My nVenus is Rx also... personal retrograde planets have a 'counterpoint' POV... so I've been told... I anguished over what that meant for decades... did it mean I was not loving or nurturing? then I read this:

In a woman’s chart Venus retrograde suggest a life uncommon to most women. Such a woman often dares to break new ground, refusing to accept traditional female roles. As a result, women with Venus retrograde often find themselves amid emotional struggles and public controversy regarding their uncompromising quest for truth, justice and acceptance.

At the same link I found:

In a man’s chart Venus retrograde indicates a powerful focus on fulfilling a well-defined set of ideals and goals, often of a social-political, spiritual or athletic nature. Living up to his chosen ideals may become the central focus in life, and a man with Venus retrograde many need to exercise more sensitivity and delicacy when applying his ideals to others.

http://www.khaldea.com/planets/venus.shtml

You can google up "natal Venus Retrograde" and get more info if you're interested. Namaste

Posted by: Jo on September 1, 2004 02:05 AM

Sorry, I should have added to my post that of course the house location of nVenus Rx, the ruling sign thereof and aspects to the planet have to be factored... so that while the three of us have nVenus Rx we would not necessarily have the same attributes or behavior patterns, right?

Namaste

Posted by: Jo on September 1, 2004 02:07 AM

Thank you Jo for the link. I was going to begin my Venus RX search tomorrow, but you started me off early. Thanks.

Janet,

I haven no doubt that you "can do this". Oftentimes I think that we Americans (those of us conscious and aware) are having a similar experience to what the Romans felt under Caligula. Or what the English felt under the horribly inept Charles I (who had himself painting "at hunt" even though he couldn't ride a horse just to squelch those naysayers who wondered if he was "manly" enough to rule ... he wasn't). Or even how the Russians have felt under a succession of "rulers".

In reading through the History of Great Nations or Great Civilizations, they all seem to share one thing: they were eventually "destroyed" by the avarice, ineptitude and hubris of their "Leaders". And, for one reason or another, those living at that time allowed, for lack of a better word, it to happen. Some of these Civilizations fell and then disappeared. Others fell and remain today with just a glimmer of their glorious past. But I believe eventually all Great Nations "fall". And the higher they rise, the deeper their descent.

Again, just my two cents.

Posted by: Jonathan on September 1, 2004 02:12 AM

http://tinyurl.com/686d3

Ex-Viet Cong Soldier Recalls Swift Boats

ON THE BAY HAP RIVER, Vietnam - The 50-foot Swift boats were easy targets as they plowed through the waterways of the Mekong Delta in packs of three or four, making big waves and thunderous noise when approaching. Former Viet Cong soldier Duong Hoang Sinh remembers them well — the one time he tangled with three Swift boats, the Americans killed all of the insurgents in his unit except for two.

More..

Posted by: Pat C on September 1, 2004 02:14 AM

Astronomers Spot Smallest Planets Yet

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=753&e=1&u=/ap/20040831/ap_on_sc/planet_hunters

Posted by: Jo on September 1, 2004 02:24 AM

My, my... tin-foil hats are apparently not in the minority...

Zogby poll
(Utica, NY) - On the eve of the Republican National Convention, half (50%) of New York City residents and two in four (41%) of New York citizens overall say that some US leaders "knew in advance that attacks were planned on or around September 11, 2001, and that they consciously failed to act," according to the poll conducted by Zogby International. The poll of New York residents was conducted from Tuesday August 24 through Thursday August 26, 2004. Overall results have a margin of sampling error of +/-3.5... (more...)

(The poll was released on August 30, 2 PM EST, Updates coming soon...)

http://inn.globalfreepress.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=745

or go to Zogby.com for more info

Posted by: Jo on September 1, 2004 02:41 AM

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5822306

Vent some of your frustration: Go vote. (Who would you vote for prez? It seems it's being freeped.)

Posted by: shylurker on September 1, 2004 02:44 AM

http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=35393

Two Candidates, Two Military Records, Two Standards; Media Covers Allegations about Kerry's Service, Ignores Bush's Record

Posted by: Pat C on September 1, 2004 03:47 AM

You know folks, I've been watching bits and pieces of the Republican convention, and normally I would get angry at the lies, deceptions, and general bombast. But I have to say, it's like watching a political convention on another planet. The rhetoric barely even rings true, even the vague proclamations about how great this country is. Not that this isn't a great country, but that coming out of the mouths of these Republicans and in the context of these speeches, it just seems hollow.

One other thing. As you watch the convention on TV, listen to the voices of the delegates, particularly as they make chants like "four more years" and the like. I have noticed a distinct gender in the voice of the crowd, which I listened for during the Democratic convention and did not hear. The Republican crowd chanting sounds like men, angry white war-mongering men. The difference between the two parties when it comes to their "collective voices" is staggering.

Since I conceive of the almighty as the wholeness of the universe itself, I always imagine that if God wanted to speak to you, it would sound like every human being on the planet talking in unison. If individuals each have a conception of the almighty, then so do groups. If each creation (person, animal, cloud, object) is an instantiation of the divine, then each unique person and each unique voice is an instantiation of the voice of God. The principle applies to groups as well. One would be able to begin to discern a group's conception of the divine through through the voice of that collective.

Think about it. Why did music originate as a spiritual practice? What is the purpose of call and response prayer? If mass vocaliztion is itself an instatiation of the divine voice, what does it say about the god of a large group of people who, when they shout, sound disticntly masculine, white, and angry?

And what does the voice of the Democratic party say about the Democrats' conception of God?

Posted by: Dave on September 1, 2004 03:52 AM

IM very HO, we get to know 'god' in fleeting moments when we're open enough and divine energy is available enough...it can be a full breath, a sense or serenity, etc. we can induce a simulation of this through our various practices, but i believe that the god force can be recognized by our consciousness only on occasion. therefore, the shout-outs at the RNC or any other convention have noting to do with god...just a bunch of pissed-off bozos with way too many trans fatty acids!

Posted by: mike on September 1, 2004 04:02 AM

I just realized that my last post needs a bit of qualification, so as not to confuse any of our atheist friends here on the board. This is really a philosophy of language point I am about to make.

When is say "God" or "the almighty" what I mean is really the archtype expressed through that term. The same principle applies, at least for me, when talking about astrology. When I say "the sun" or "pluto" or refer to a house or a sign, what I really mean is the archetype which those things represent.

I doubt that this is a point of much dispute amongst most people who post here, but I thought I should mention it anyway.

Posted by: Dave on September 1, 2004 04:02 AM

...well, well...ain't this a surprise???

http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,5005516-111675,00.html

Posted by: wv on September 1, 2004 04:15 AM


...Sidney Blumental reviews opening night at the
GOP convention....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,5005503-112564,00.html

Posted by: wv on September 1, 2004 04:20 AM

Mike, I'm very HO?

hmmm....translation?

And Dave, a few articles back I posted a dream which to me was my tapping into the Moon/Neptune archetypal experience....

And in the real world, when I was a kid on Maui, the neighborhood bully tied me to a tree and whipped my back with a branch. I was about 6. I ran home when I managed to get loose and told my mom, and that seemed to be the end of it....they went to his parents, he was grounded, etc. To me it was BS....it wasn't enough, it wasn't JUST. I had this OVERWHELMING feeling that the "Universe" (not God) would take care of it (I remember very distinctly that the Universe was "out there" and didn't consist of one "personage" - kind of like the Tarot card...)

Several days later, bully boy stepped on a kiave thorn. Those thorns have barbs on them and can't be pulled out. They have to work through the area....he ended up in the hospital. It was then I knew I wasn't alone....I guess that was when I started believing that there was a balance to our experiences in this world...

Posted by: judi on September 1, 2004 04:30 AM

Well, got home from being elsewhere, turned on tv, and it was All Arnold, All Channels, all the time....

I escaped to a design show, but they were reruns 3 times around....

I like jonathan's comments about the historical record on empires falling. True...are we next? Based on what is going on now, and the articles posted by KOS, it sure seems as if the elements are all there....most assuredly, the HUBRIS is there. Rome comes to mind.

Can't wait until the worm turns and the energy changes .....

Posted by: judi on September 1, 2004 04:43 AM

Will kiave grow in Crawford? DC? Kennebunkport?

Dave, I just wanna say that your comments about the two conventions are most insightful and welcomed. You are a very keen observer of human events. (I'm not going to use the word 'sensitive' since the Repugs puked all over it a couple of weeks back.) Thanks ever so much for sharing your observations. I have no tee-vee, so otherwise would be unaware. You're a champ!

Posted by: shylurker on September 1, 2004 04:53 AM

Got this email from a friend who got it from someone named Bob ..... and this guy is the parent of a teacher?

Hi Phil: As the parent of a teacher, I note that President Bush is the first President of the U.S.A., who has done anything to straighten out the secular-human mess our schools have created and the absolute first to call for results accountability, a nasty word to the bloated NEA and labor union minions. Egad, man. Nothing starts out, perfectly! ttyl, :-) Bob

Posted by: judi on September 1, 2004 05:13 AM


Always good to get back to this board and the great comments. Jonathan wonderful little essay on the rise and fall of the nations and so true. Transformation is going to happen in this country, no matter what happens in Nov. we have to keep the image of positive transformation, if it's Bush and he completes the destruction of the US that they have started, it will just give us something to build upon and make better. Actually, if Kerry wins at least 47 percent of the people will be gnashing their teeth and if Bush wins at least 47 percent will move toward anarchy. If Bush wins in Nov. he will have a nightmare on his hands, something like inherit the winds.

The window of energy of Bush falling hard started
this summer and increases for the next several years, it's just difficult to see if is complete fall will be right before or right after the election. There is still a window of physical danger for him until mid or third week of September.

I have listened to bits and pieces of this convention, (never more that 5 min at a time because it makes me sick) but what strikes me at this convention and for that matter the Dems convention, it seems all Hollywood. I agree with Dave, nothing real, all staged for the masses. I don't get any real sincerity, to me both have been flat. However, the sickening fawning of the media was absent during the Dems convention and is in full swing here.

Ben Stein (Author and Bush Supporter) gave a rousing (for Ben) endorsement for Bush over Kerry, however in the end he says "I may personally vote for Nadar, neither Bush or Kerry seems to care much about consummer and stock holder rights and Nadar does." That seems to be the way this convention is going.

Posted by: Sally on September 1, 2004 05:22 AM


Dave, your comments regarding the convention differences is, I think an important omen, the diversity of voices will ultimately drown out, because they outnumber, angry white men. The "voice of God" that is profound

Posted by: Sally on September 1, 2004 05:28 AM

Quality of post of this comment thread seems unusually congent.Ah! these are the times that try our souls.Yeah... haveing to endure yet another Republican convention.Have hated it since 1964.
Have been rereading ,Horary Astrology and the Judgemnet of Events by Barbara H. Watters the past few days.I must say the chapter on political astrology did indeed get my attention.
She, Ms. Watters ,used the nomination chart to predict out comes of presidential elections and I think she is right.So come tomorrow night I hope we are able to come up with the exact time that the repubs declare Bush has been chosen their nominee.
We do already know some things about the nomination chart.The first I might mention is that the moon will be going to a square of Saturn.
According to Watters the Moon represents the electorate.If the moon is void of course or is afflicted then she says the electorate will not function as desired for the nominee.Moon square Saturn is a HUGE affliction!
I do know from experience of working with event and elective charts for friends my self and various asundry that I have never seen things turn out as hoped for when the moon was going to a hard aspect with Saturn at the time of the event or election being judged.
The ascendent for the Bush being chosen to be the Nominee will I believe be Gemmini or possibly Cancer.The ascendent represents the group empowered to select the canidate.If we have a Gemini ascendent then Mercury would be the ruler and significter of the electors and Mercury is still retrograde tomorrorw night.With Mercury as significater and retrograde you get a result very much contrary to the one desired by the electors.If we have a Cancer ascendent which I think unlilly unless it takes well into the night to get their business done then the moon is the significater and with it going to the square of Saturn the electors of the nominee will not even come close to getting the result they desire.
There is a lot more I could say here but will save most of it till we actually have a chart.The Sun represnts the nominee and we will have the Sun conjunct Mars tomorrow night going to a square to Pluto.Sounds like a pretty good description of King George to me. This is not a weak Sun. Its a sun that loves to play smash mouth Politics though if Pluto is in the sixth house in the chart this could back fire as pluto would be 12 houses from the seventh which represnts the campaing to be waged..
I might add that her saying the seventh is the campaign that would be waged does ring true in my mind.So what we would really like to see here is an invalid cusp,on he seventh ie last three degrees of a sign or the first three degrees of a sign as it would mean that war they wage would be weak and ineffective.
I suspect however that we are not going to be so lucky. What we are going to get is pluto in the seventh and with mars going to the square of it the war they are going to wage will be brutal indeed. No surprise here.
Were we to get an invalid midheaven and invalid ascendent and seventh house cusp along with what we already have moon going to a square of Saturn and Mercury retrograde there would be no doubt that the nomination chart for GWB would indcate he would loose.
I shall be watching much to my distate the end of the voteing process and try to get the time Bush is declared their partys choice to run for president.
I did not get the time for when this occured with Kerry though I do understand that by the time the votes were tallied and he was chosen the moon had gone into Capricorn and was going to a trine of mercury that in turn was sextile to the US Venus Jupiter conjunction. The Moon trine of Mercury certainly beats moon square Saturn which is what Bush is going to have.So at this point we are looking pretty good. If anyone knows the exact time the Dems chairman said Kerry is the man we have chosen let me know. I did do a chart for his acceptance which looked quite good but I think the nomination chart is more important than the acceptance chart. The acceptance chart however should be confirmation of what the nomination charts shows.
Sorry if this is all a bit tedious but it is hugely important.Dont matter what all the pundits say. Invalid ascendent, invalid midheaven, moon square Saturn, mercury retrograde, and the Repubs nominee is going to go down to defeat.
I also will be doing a Vedic analysis of the nomination chart but will save that discussion till we actually have a chart.

Posted by: Chas on September 1, 2004 06:14 AM

chas, that's very interesting. no appologies needed for a lengthy post.

Posted by: mike on September 1, 2004 06:24 AM

Just a quickie....The results for the msnbc poll that Skylurker posted are currently 49/49 (and I think 2% Nader). This burns me. Please go vote: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5822306

Secondly, I agree with the comment made earlier that it is pretty likely the debates will turn things around. I know I have mentioned this here before, but, again, IMHO, Kerry is one keen, even charismatic, debater. Although I was a Dean groupie at the time, I could not help but admire John Kerry during the Democratic debates. He really got my attention. I just cannot wait until the debates. Pulease pass the popcorn!

Posted by: Sharon Katz on September 1, 2004 06:54 AM

I think that Madame Butterfly just met her waterloo. Couldn't happen to a more deserving #(*$#)$*#)($*./


SUPERVISOR OF ELECTIONS
Completed Precincts: 689 of 693 (99.42%)
Vote Count Percent
Arthur 'Art' ANDERSON 91,134 51.45%
Theresa LEPORE 85,601 48.32%
WRITE-IN 402 0.23%
Total 177,137 100.00%


Posted by: shylurker on September 1, 2004 07:35 AM


Chas, I love your posts and Barbara Watters is great. You might need to do a little adjusting because Bush will make his acceptance speech on Thursday night (sometime between 8:45 and 11:00 EDT) and the moon will be 0 degrees Taurus. However if you are taking the time he is nominated (after the States take their vote or before? the nomination comes before the vote) and that will be Wed. and the Moon will square Saturn.

There is a nice Vedic examination on Astro Insight
http://www.astroinsight.com/2004election/1.html which is linked to Astroworld on the right hand menu and you might enjoy his interpretation and examination of the Vedic aspects.

Posted by: Sally on September 1, 2004 07:44 AM

Being a Log Cabin Republican must be a lot like a having “A Catastrophic Success” What's up with this group---Are they just a bunch of masochists?

?????LOG CABIN REPUBLICANS??????

AN URGENT PLEA FROM PATRICK GUERRIERO

As our nation's eyes are on New York City for the Republican National Convention, Log Cabin's mission, our courageous delegates and our GOP allies are under intense attack from the radical right. The Republican Party Platform is an outrageous insult to all of us and our families. The platform not only calls for an anti-family Constitutional amendment, but it also opposes civil unions and domestic partnerships. While thousands of courageous gay and lesbian Americans are fighting to win the war on terror, the platform also says, "Homosexuality is incompatible with military service."

http://www.logcabin.org/logcabin/index.html

Posted by: KAP on September 1, 2004 07:47 AM

It appears as if Bush was officially Nominated on Tuesday, August 31. I didn't see this as I'm not watching the Convention (I love my life too much to abuse myself this way), but the NY Times posted the story at 7:38 PM EDT and mentioned that the nomination preceded the night's events.

Nominated during a Mercury RX? Hmmmm ...

Posted by: Jonathan on September 1, 2004 10:27 AM

The delegate call was scheduled for 7:20. Between 7:20 and 7:30 p.m. August 31 then.

The two times put

--the ascendant between 6 and 11 degress of Pisces

-- moon at 3 Aries in the first making only inconjuncts to Uranus in the 12th and the north node in the second, and a 150-degree quincunx to the Sun in the Virgo 6th or 7th (where with Mars and Jupiter are)

-- Pluto in the 10th just past the midheaven

What think you, Chas?

Posted by: bear on September 1, 2004 12:58 PM

Ah, just found it: 7:24 p.m. August 31, 2004:
8 pisces 35 rising, opposite the 8'52" Virgo sun conjunct the descendant on the 7th cusp

Philly.com: http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/news/local/9550364.htm?1c
John Baer | Pa. delegation puts W over the top

NEW YORK -At 7:24 last evening Pennsylvania's delegation chair, Renee Amoore, cast the state's 75 votes to put George W. Bush over the top for renomination.

Posted by: bear on September 1, 2004 01:28 PM

Kerry was nominated at 11:35 p.m. July 28, 2004:
4 Taurus 6 rising, North Node rising at 6 Taurus 51, Chiron just past the Capricorn midheaven.

Posted by: bear on September 1, 2004 01:53 PM

Pfizer Ends Drug Cards for Elderly
By MILT FREUDENHEIM

NYT September 1, 2004


Pfizer, the nation's largest drug maker, ended its widely used discount card for the elderly yesterday, leaving several hundred thousand low-income Medicare beneficiaries at least temporarily without access to reduced prices for popular medicines like the cholesterol treatment Lipitor.

The company said that it had been warning its 536,000 cardholders for months that it would discontinue the discount program on Aug. 31 and that it had advised them to sign up for various discount cards that became available under a new Medicare program that began in June.

But consumer advocates, citing the widespread confusion over the new Medicare program, had asked Pfizer to keep its discount card in place until 2006 - the year that prescription drugs will become a standard part of Medicare benefits.

"A lot of people will be left high and dry starting tomorrow," said Robert M. Hayes, president of the Medicare Rights Center, a nonprofit consumer advocacy group.

Under the former Pfizer card, a 30-day supply of Lipitor cost $15 - compared with $68 at one Internet pharmacy, for example, or $43.32 at one Canadian Web site.

Mr. Hayes said the Pfizer action was "a harbinger of trouble ahead" in the patchwork of Medicare drug programs, which include a welter of prices and eligibility requirements that some elderly people have found daunting to navigate.

So far only about 4.1 million of the nation's 40 million Medicare beneficiaries have signed up for Medicare-approved discount cards.

... much more

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/01/business/01drug.html?hp

Big Pharma, HMO's, our biggest monsters - they don't want you to die until they've taken your last penny.

This is what families are worried about. Not one family in a thousand is interested in swift boats..

........................

Last year the administration was emphasizing that the problems in Iraq were confined to the Sunni Triangle. Today we have fighting going off in Najaf and bombs going off on a regular basis in Mosul.

These are not in the Sunni Triangle. Najaf is in the Shiite area. Al Sadr and his followers are Shiiite.

Mosul is in the Kurdish area. That the area where we were the most popular right after the fall of Baghdad.

This demonstrates conclusively that things are getting worse, not better!

..........................

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2004_08_29.php#003390

Covering conventions always puts me in a sort of media bubble -- this one even more since I've been pretty much keeping to myself. But that leaves me with little sense of what the 'buzz' is on the shows and with the major columnists and so forth.

  And today I realized -- somehow suddenly -- that what had been a congealing sense that the second half of August had been a bad couple weeks for Kerry had turned into a galloping panic that his campaign is in disarray and hope for his candidacy may be close to over.

There are articles about a possible shake-up among high-level staffers, blind quotes from Democratic insiders saying that after a couple more days it may be too late; and I've gotten a slew of emails from readers either asking me if I still think there's hope or ranting that they've had it with Mary Beth Cahill or Stephanie Cutter or someone else.

All I can say is, really, really, shut up and calm down.

Politically, this is one of the worst things about Democrats -- and it has many sources. As a group they seem to have a great tendency toward becoming disheartened, turning on their candidate, doubting his strategy, doubting his advisors, and so forth

More....

.........................

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/227819p-195546c.html

Third item down:

New School president Bob Kerrey - a former Democratic senator from Nebraska and a Medal of Honor recipient in Vietnam - had choice words for the Swifties accusing Sen. John Kerry of volunteering for Vietnam combat duty to pad his political résumé.


"Oh, f-- them," he told the Daily News' James Gordon Meek. "Quote me on that. The idea that you'd volunteer for [Swift boat duty] because you're thinking about a political career. ... That's what you think about doing if you want a posthumous political career."

.............................

http://www.moveonpac.org/precinctpartners/signup.html

Posted by: Pat C on September 1, 2004 03:19 PM

They nominated him last night?! This is what I get for refuseing to watch any of it.The next question is however and it is critical is the monent he is nominated after all the votes are counted or when he achieves a majority as the votes are being counted. If the former is true Kerry was Nominated with a void of course moon.Not good. Not good at all.
My first impression of this chart is that it is very strong.Sun mars angular in the seventh with Jupiter the ruler of the ascendent.
And the chart fits with Pluto at the midheaven indicating the nominee is a "plutocrat."
The only negative here is that the moon is in the degree of the nodes as the moon is in an exact inconjunct with the south node.
At this poiint I hesitate to interpet that. Watters says,"In horary astrologly ,any planet falling in the degree of the nodes,regardless of what sign it is in,is a fatefull testimony.The nodes are are regarded as fateful points which act like a combination of Saturn and Uranus to bring sudden retribution or calminity to someone concerned with the outcome of the event"
The moon here is supposed to represent the electorate.Its being in the degree of the nodes and in poor aspect to the south node I would like to think this means the electorate does not function as desired by the the deleagates who nominated him which is ruled by the first house which is where the moon is.But it could also mean which I know is what many of us fear that the electors are as in 2000 somehow discounted that leads to a fate full conclusion to the election.
Paranoia you old friend of mine!
If this is indeed the chart we should go by the Sun Mars square to pluto around the tenth and eleveth of September will square Pluto and the midheaven of this chart.Sun pluto at this time will also square the nodes of Bush and his progreseed midheaven and it will be hitting hard the charts of Kerry and and Edwards.Something is going to happen at this time that will set the tone of this election.Mars in the last nights Bush nomination chart is inconjunct Neptune and going to the square of Pluto and it rules the moon ie the voters.This is a higly unstable Mars and we might hope that its deceptive and brutal ways might somehow outrage the voters and undermine the effectiveness of the campaign to be waged by the Bush people as is indicated by mars being positioned in the seventh house.
Mercury is the depositer of all of the Virgo planets in the seventh and Mercury is retrograde But I dont think this is of much help as it is soon to turn direct.
And the real crux of the matter is what time do we use for the chart?
Is it when the voters give him a majority or when the party chariman anounces the partys choice for its presidential nominee.None of the democrats nominated with a void of course moon have ever been elected to the presidency.I would think the latter of the above is true but Iam no expert in this branch of astrology.I remember reading after Kerry was nominated that Democrats neeed not worry this time as because after the votes were counted and Kerry was annnounced the winner the moon had moved into capricorn aand Kerry had avoided the fate of former democratic nominees with void of course moons.I hope they are right about that.
Never the less what we need to see now is some weakness in the chart for the time Bush accepts the nomination.

Posted by: Chas on September 1, 2004 03:34 PM

bear thank you for those dates it is interesting to note that kerry has chiron just past the midheaven on his nomination time, which would suggest his true desire to bring healing to this country,no matter how "stiffly" he may present himself. remember, you can't judge a book by its cover.

the full moon echo on king george bushs ascendant time brings me the hope that his is an administration that is quickly going to be "closing" once and for all.

Posted by: isabelle ghaneh on September 1, 2004 03:37 PM

I just love Morford.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2004/09/01/notes090104.DTL&nl=fix

Bunny-curdling screams were heard throughout the Beltway last week and Laura Bush herself got all flustered and confused as vice president and noted hunk of rabid warmongering neoconservatism Dick Cheney broke ranks with his party of other hunks of rabid warmongering neoconservatives and admitted, in public, that he thinks gay people are, you know, mostly OK.

Sort of. A little. In small doses.

"With respect to the question of relationships, my general view is that freedom means freedom for everyone. People ought to be able to free -- ought to be free to enter into any kind of relationship they want to." This is what Cheney actually said.

Reporters gasped. Bystanders were stunned. Small flowers burst into flames. Shockingly, the GOP's lightning bolts of homophobic self-righteousness did not strike Mr. Cheney dead on the spot. And his head, contrary to reports, did not actually spin all the way around, twice ....

More...

Posted by: Pat C on September 1, 2004 03:50 PM

Chas, Bear -

Wasn't Kerry nominated during a VOC moon? Just like Gore in 2000?

Maybe I'm wrong about this, but I seem to recall during the pre-post Dem convention period that there was a lot of debate about which was more important: the nomination during the VOC or the acceptance speech.

Given Watters's methodology, Kerry would seem to be at a disadvantage if indeed the time of nomination is more important than the subsequent acceptance speech. Jeeze, I hope not.

Posted by: Susan on September 1, 2004 03:55 PM

Sally from what I have gathered they voted last night.This is very dismaying.I was counting on that moon square Saturn.In judgement of events astrology things do not go better with Saturn.
I read the article at the link you put up.He does mention one thing I have always wondered about and that is the strength of Bushs ninth harmonic chart.Many yogas in the tenth in that chart.His Rasi or first harmonic chart is not all that strong.Very frustrating as I dont know the Vedic well enough to make a judgement here.Got to try to keep the faith but that Bush nomination chart is disturbing.Jupiter is not only angular in the seventh but rules the ascendent and the tenth and Venus is going to a sextile to it haveing just seperated from Saturn.And it broadly conjoins the Sun and Mars
Well, as Henry Miller once said when it dont look to good, when everything appears to be falling apart you just get down on your knees and pray.

Posted by: Chas on September 1, 2004 04:02 PM

Direct Confrontation, 900 Arrested in NYC
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/090204Z.shtml

Posted by: Pat C on September 1, 2004 04:38 PM

I have a question. Wouldn't the natal charts be the most telling when it comes to predicting the election outcome?

Posted by: Pat C on September 1, 2004 04:40 PM

Another stoopid poll: Who gave the better speech, Pickles or THK? It's been heavily freeped.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3080261/

Posted by: shylurker on September 1, 2004 04:41 PM

Chas,
The Capricorn moon comes from the beginning of Kerry's acceptance speech the following night at 10 p.m., which at least one astrologer is using: http://starcats.com/democratic_convention2004.html

Posted by: bear on September 1, 2004 04:42 PM

Pat C,Usually we look at the natal charts its just that with event asstrologer there are hard and fast rules that are not that subjective and if they say something you have to go with that.An invalid ascendent or a void of course moon for instance indicates that the out come of the matter in question will be negative.
Bear the moon went into capricorn the previous night just before the final vote tally of the delegates voteing on the Kerry nomination.The chart by the way in the link you gave is not correct. He accepted his nomination at 1022pm that Thursday evening.Its not a bad chart I would like to belive that is the one we should go with but it is hard to argue with Barbra Watters on this point

Posted by: Chas on September 1, 2004 05:03 PM

Chas,

You're right. The correct chart is the 10:22 PM chart 'cause I watched it myself and made HUGE mental note of the time. I'm not sure who Barbara Watters is, but I do know that sometimes even the best of us make mistakes. He accepted at 10:22 PM.

Just a quick note about our tendency to suddenly doubt Kerry or what he's doing. Remember, everyone, that Kerry is a famously good "closer". And, looking at the fight he had against Gov Weld in 1996, he can play just as mean and just as dirty as the best of them ... and Gov Weld was pretty darn good! So, a little less worry and doubt and a little more faith in astrology and Kerry's ability to campaign successfully might help everyone feel a little bit better. September is rough, October gets a lot better. :-)

Posted by: Jonathan on September 1, 2004 05:15 PM

Chas,
Since we don't know which nominating chart is "real" -- when Kerry got enough primary votes to secure the nomination, when the count goes over the top, when they're all counted andd announced, etc -- I'm more comfortable going with the election day chart itself.

This is from a Llewellyn article last september:
http://www.llewellynjournal.com/article/512

Getting Elected
One way to forecast the winner is to figure out who has the closest, best associations to Uranus at the time of the election. Uranus is perhaps the most unpredictable object in the astrological chart. The history of U.S. politics has demonstrated that our presidential elections are not easy to predict. Truman won over Dewey in what was supposedly a “sure thing” for the Republican Party. Kennedy defeated Nixon in an election almost too close to call. George W. Bush defeated Al Gore in an election that many would say was stolen, not won. Even some of our founding fathers employed dirty tricks to get themselves elected.

Senator Kerry has several indicators of change involving Uranus. He will be at the top of his political game at election time, almost magically bringing about transformation (solar arc Uranus conjunct birth Pluto).The conjunction aspect is a clear indication of change. It indicates the end of one thing, and the beginning of something new.

Kerry may feel somewhat unbalanced as the election date draws near, with all his energy directed toward the campaign. He is very capable of capturing the hearts of the voters (solar arc Neptune opposition birth Uranus). He will fall in love with his work or the people will fall in love with him (transiting Uranus trine birth Venus).
(end of article)

I remember realizing that Bill Clinton's 21 Gemini Uranus would bring a sudden end to George H.W. Bush's career when I saw they were at the same degree of Leo -- and Bush's Sun was in his tenth house.

This means anyone of Clinton's generation could have brought about the same result.

Posted by: on September 1, 2004 05:23 PM

Sally, I read the Vedic interpretation of the Kerry and Bush charts, and so it does seem there is reason for the close tie in the polls.

Posted by: judi on September 1, 2004 05:24 PM

Clarifying above, Bush's 10th house Sun is at 21 Gemini, as is Bill Clinton's Uranus.

Posted by: bear on September 1, 2004 05:25 PM

They are relentless, and we MUST not sit by and watch.

http://blackboxvoting.org/

Our worst fears:
Submitted by Bev Harris on Sat, 08/28/2004 - 18:52. Investigations
(Due to its importance, this story is pinned to the top. Scroll down for new daily reports). By entering a 2-digit code in a hidden location, a second set of votes is created in the Diebold central tabulator, a program installed in 1,000 locations, which controls both paper ballots and touch-screens, each system handling up to a million votes at a time. Full story

After invoking the 2-digit trigger, this second set of votes can be changed so that it no longer matches the correct set of votes. The voting system will then read the totals from the bogus vote set.

It takes only seconds to change the votes, and to date not a single location in the U.S. has implemented security measures to fully mitigate the risks. It is not too late to do so, and the corrective measures are relatively simple.

This program is not "stupidity" or sloppiness. It was designed and tested over a series of a dozen version adjustments, and has been in place for four years

.......................

Governor's Office
Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger
State Capitol Building
Sacramento, CA 95814
Phone: 916-445-2841
Fax: 916-445-4633

To send an Electronic Mail please visit:
http://www.govmail.ca.gov

http://www.americanether.net/Shelley.html


Is Kevin Shelley getting Davis'ed by Schwarzenegger?-E-Voting Critic getting shafted, while CA counties go broke.

Tell Governor Schwarzenegger to give the voters of
California a fair and accurate election and to NOT
withhold 17.5 million in federal funds from the
Secretary of State Kevin Shelley, which in turn would
go to state counties.


Last week, the Schwarzenegger administration said it
would freeze spending authorization for $17.5 million
in federal voter funds until an audit determines
whether Secretary of State Kevin Shelley has properly
spent previously distributed funds.

This audit is due to be finished in about 3 months and
none of the money would be used for the November
election - hmm, do you think the Governor could wait
until after the election to do the audit?

So what would the 17.5 million in funds do and where
would it go?

  Having these funds could be mean the difference
between California having a fair and accurate election
and one riddled with malfunctions and untrained poll
workers, as seen in the state's last primary. Most of
this money was to be given to individual counties and
used for training poll workers, hiring poll watchers,
and most importantly about 5.5 million to add tough
new security measures to electronic voting machines.

  Kevin Shelley has been an outspoken critic of
electronic voting systems that have been sold and
entrusted to California voters for their elections.
These systems have been tested by computer scientists
and are said to be lacking in the most basic security
standards, leaving an open window for vote
manipulation....

More....

Posted by: Pat C on September 1, 2004 05:25 PM

Thanks for the response Chas. It's is a point of confusion for me.

Posted by: Pat C on September 1, 2004 05:27 PM

Both my husband and my son are veterans (Vietnam/Gulf I). They were incensed, livid, outraged at the Republican parody of the Purple Hearts. How many American's have been awarded Purple Hearts? Just goes to show Bush's distain for the Troops, oh yeah, they're Fodder Units. May this too blow back on them...insulting the wounded...grrrr.

Watchin' Frances, man that's one big angry hurricane. The Weather Channel RNC free zone.

Posted by: Morgana on September 1, 2004 05:27 PM

being nominated during a VOC moon would mean to me that the nomination was just the formalities, the fact was he was already the nominee and the world knew it. I don't think that is a problem. If his nomination was a surprise, and it was VOC, i think that would be something else.
All this talk about venus Retrograde.
My older son has venus retrograde in scorpio with uranus conjunct within minutes.. I always thought he would be a real lady killer... instead he is low key and sweet and pretty average in his ability to have and keep girlfriends...
am I misunderstanding the aspect? (in his 7th house)

Posted by: mimi on September 1, 2004 05:42 PM


Good speeches you can watch online....

http://www.nationinstitute.org/takeback/

Posted by: wv on September 1, 2004 05:46 PM

You know, it is interesting how far apart we are from the people on "their" side. By accident (suddenly, Alf Landon had come to mind, and this site was listed in my google search) I came across a rightwing blog from 1998 on freerepublic.
---------------this quote:
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3637b9ec0c56.htm
And.....don't look now, but George W. has managed to unite the Hispanic vote AND the Christians, in Texas, to support him. My family all live in Texas, are very Conservative, and they love George W. (although most did not like his father). He apparently is a governor who has kept his word with the people, maintains high moral standards and, presently, has the highest popularity poll numbers of any politician in Texas history. Sounds like a pretty good candidate for the Republicans in 2000.
--------------------
And now they own all 3 branches of government....so even with our personal repugnance for repugnant values, somehow we need to see that ONE HALF OF THE COUNTRY WHICH VOTES AGREES WITH THOSE VALUES.

How do we run a chart on THAT? If Kerry represents our values, and King Geo II their values, it really does all come down to one man and WHICH ONE THE GOD(S) or Planets SMILE UPON.

Reality really bites at times.

Posted by: judi on September 1, 2004 05:48 PM

Pat C., re Kevin Shelley.....I think Shelley is getting the treatment, and it didn't help that some illegalities with a supporter and funds has been used to tar him too....you bet he's being Davis'd. He's shouting out about how the votes will be manipulated, and no one is paying attention in the least. I think the voters might be, but don't know how to do anything about it.

Posted by: judi on September 1, 2004 05:53 PM

Judi, read the book, "Whatever Happened to Kansas?". It tells, very well how the wealthy conservatives sold their bill of goods to the blue collar Americans. They actually believe that these powermongers will best represent their security.

I'd laugh it were actually funny.

Posted by: Pat C on September 1, 2004 05:56 PM

Michael Moore - "The GOP Doesn't Reflect America"

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0831-04.htm

Posted by: Siobhan on September 1, 2004 06:34 PM

i for one am really enjoying MM's stint
at USAToday. I even wrote them thanking them for letting him write editorials this week!

Posted by: mimi on September 1, 2004 06:37 PM

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/

They want to know if the speeches last (Ahhhhhhnold's, et al) reflect the core of the Repugs.

Posted by: shylurker on September 1, 2004 06:40 PM

For what it's worth today .. was looking around Marjorie Orr's website and had a look at Michael Moore's horoscope ... Marjorie Orr has written at the end "Michael Moore will be ebullient over the inauguration in January '05". Ok, have to admit I had to look "ebullient" up myself ... it means "joyously unrestrained"! I take that to mean that *ush is back in Crawford cutting weeds in January so I'll focus on that one for now and turn off the TV today! Hopefully this little Marjorie O. tidbit will cheer some of you up also!Remember the old saying "it's always darkest before the dawn" ....wise words (may they come true in November!)

Posted by: Siobhan on September 1, 2004 06:56 PM

Pat C., I've read one of the chapters of Thomas Frank's book....a writer friend sent it to me in April, when it was exerpted in Harper's....I've mentioned it before. I think his recounting of HOW the repugs "languaged" the message, and how that message directly contradicts the best interests of those who are roped into voting that way is just frightening.

Great posts....ps, I have that transiting Saturn and T. Venus conj. my Jupiter....what a mess financially, for me with no work, no income AND having to take care of my mother's fianances now that she is in a nursing home, but the funniest thing (well, maybe not funny, but strange) is that I've had 2 women talking on cell phones absolutely go ballistic on me in parking lots. Yesterday a young woman started yelling that God was going to make me pay for my actions....she confronted me, was writing my license number down, and generally being an authoritarian parent yelling at a kid....very righteous. Really humiliated me and made it pretty much impossible for my ego to handle (I put a shopping cart away, and after I walked away, it rolled into a parked car....not even HER parked car. ) It was amazing....then I looked at Saturn exactly conj. Venus yesterday, on my natal Jupiter, it made sense.

Posted by: judi on September 1, 2004 06:58 PM

Judi, there was a lot of that yesterday. I heard about it from friends, and saw some of it myself. It was a strange day indeed.

Posted by: Pat C on September 1, 2004 07:12 PM

How interesting!

To: PaganWarrior@yahoogroups.com
~ snipped for privacy ~
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 17:36:17 +0200
Subject: [PaganWarrior] Gulianni and Shadows of the Third Reich


Greetings from Germany.

The Germans are reacting with everything from shock to dismay after hearing
the ex-Mayor of New York, R. Gulianni's speach at the Republican Convention.
Could it be that his speach writter has no grasp of history or no idea of
with whom George W. Bush has been compared with? Was it perhaps only
coincidence or worse yet a omen of darker times ahead.

What could Gulianni have said in his speach that sounded so innocent in
English? What choice of words could send shudders of fear down the backs of
these now peaceful Germans? Translated in to German, his statement goes
"Wir Wählen keine Republikaner oder Demokraten, wir Wählen keine Liberaler
oder Konservativer, wir Wählen eine Führer!" This is how a certain Austrian
was described leading up to his election almost word for word.

Should the Germans be concerned? Should the world? When a man bent on
bringing his form of "Democracy" to the world, has an eye on war with Syria,
Iran and North Korea to name a few and leads a country with the worlds
largest arsenal of weapons of mass destruction... the answer is Yes! Very
concerned. The Germans have had a "Führer" before and it didn't go well for
the entire world.

William

Posted by: Morgana on September 1, 2004 07:23 PM

http://salon.com/news/feature/2004/09/01/barnes60minutes/print.html

Ben Barnes to break silence on "60 Minutes"
The Republican campaign gets ready for shock waves, as the former Texas official who says he pulled strings to get George W. Bush into the Air National Guard finally goes public.

The campaign battle over Vietnam War records is still raging, but President Bush may soon be the one answering uncomfortable questions about his past service. Ben Barnes, the former lieutenant governor of Texas, will finally break his silence and talk to the press about what role he played in helping Bush get a coveted slot in the Texas Air National Guard in 1968. Sources say Barnes has already sat down for a "60 Minutes" interview that will air a week from Sunday. A "60 Minutes" spokesperson declined to comment, saying the program does not discuss reports that are in progress.


Barnes made headlines last week when his videotaped comments that he was "very ashamed" of getting Bush into the National Guard began circulating on the Web. He said the remorse was prompted by a recent visit to the Vietnam War Memorial in Washington, where he saw the names of thousands of other young men who did not enjoy the connections of the Bush family. Barnes made his comments in May and the video was posted on a pro-Kerry Web site in June, but word of it only began to spread widely last Friday.

Over the weekend, the national press, which for weeks has been amplifying factually challenged allegations against John Kerry by the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, gave Barnes' stunning remarks only cursory coverage. The Washington Post, for instance, ran a brief wire story on Saturday, the same day it printed yet another exhaustive piece about allegations surrounding Kerry's war past. In a subsequent WashingtonPost.com online chat, the Post reporter covering the Swift boat story suggested Barnes' comments didn't qualify as "fresh information," and consequently he wasn't interested in "simply regurgitating old controversies." The New York Times ran a brief item on Barnes' statements deep inside its Saturday news section, next to yet another lengthy profile of Kerry's longtime Swift boat nemesis, John O'Neill.

More...

Posted by: Pat C on September 1, 2004 07:37 PM

my german isn't so good. translate the german into english please?

Posted by: mimi on September 1, 2004 07:46 PM

While tempting to take a date that will fit a hoped for outcome, usually it's the day and time of acceptance that is used. But, that said, Bush is actually small potatoes, it's taking back Congress that is the most important, they make the laws and confirm judicial appointments. Work hard for them in your state. The Repug Convention started at 10:00 am on Aug. 30 under a Mercury Retrograde, things look fairly good for them until the end of September then it shifts.

No matter what day one uses or time, nothing supercedes the natal chart. Example: if you have winning aspects for a lotto on a specific day, it won't happen if winning isn't in the natal chart.

No one has mentioned there are two eclipses before this election, a solar eclipse on Oct. 14th (falling across Bush 4/10 house and trining Kerry's Saturn, and close to a square to the US Mercury) a lunar eclipse on Oct. 28 (squaring Bush asc and Mercury and close to an opposition to Kerry's Venus) These eclipses are related to Saros Series 6 South, "the individual may exert a huge effort in some group activity. It has a manic flavor to it and is about being forceful and taking power. The person experiencing this event may experience sudden events."

Will the machines be manipulated? We need to know the date those machines were first used to make an astrological prediction and I don't have that date, if someone does it would be great.

Someone asked about the use of the word "powerful" was that good or bad? Powerful just is, some people use the energy for good and some for bad.

Posted by: Sally on September 1, 2004 07:47 PM

Sally, the eclipse info is quite interesting....can you add anything to it?

Posted by: judi on September 1, 2004 08:12 PM

Judi,

The electoral college votes decide the election... it doesn't matter if every single person in Texas votes for the shrub, they still have only x number of e.c. votes... as for the status of voters in Texas... there's a huge movement of "Republicans for Kerry" out of Dallas (big Repub country) as evidenced by their ad in the Austin newspaper a few weeks back... they listed all the reasons they can't support Dubya and it sounded like a demo talking point memo!

Everyone:
Sally suggested we not watch polls or the RNConvention --- it's a good suggestion imo... the media whores are cheering away --- today I delivered a couple of yard signs for Kerry/Edwards to folks who were looking for them and took some bumper stickers to a few other people. It comes down to how many people we get to the polls on Nov. 2nd... and that requires work.

My experience with astrology is that the stars present opportunity, we choose. Neil Tyl (I think I spelled his name correctly) wrote a series of books (about 12 I believe) that came out in the 70s... in one he gave an illustration of a woman who was undergoing emergency surgery... her chart indicated stress on both lights and harsh aspects between all her planets... Tyl commented that he believed she would not survive the surgery. But she did, and his comment was that her Will pulled her through an exceedingly difficult event....

My daughter and I found ourselves in a blizzard in New Mexico... we had attended Midnight Mass at a pueblo and were driving on what we did not know was a 'closed' interstate... she was sleeping beside me, and I could not 'see' anything... their was a semi ahead of me and I rationalized that if I followed him and he did not descend off the mountain road, I would not either... I white- knuckled it back to Albq., where I of course found very little snow and home... safely... all the while I was driving I 'willed' us to safety... that may sound arrogant, but I have been in other situations where I was in danger and I would not allow negative energy in... of course, that is not to say I am always going to have that experience... but for me, the expression 'Thy Will be Done' means that...

Seek the highest good for us as a collective and "chop wood and carry water" during the coming weeks... that is all that we can do...

Namaste

Posted by: Jo on September 1, 2004 08:23 PM

Looking at my own chart election day, I thought I would be very unhappy because Venus in transit conjuncts n. Saturn exactly. And then it occurred to me I'll be a PollWatcher that day for the Democratic Party!! Which makes sense . . . . Just means I'm taking it all seriously and working hard?

Please tell me what you think. . .

Posted by: Laurie on September 1, 2004 08:25 PM


Judi, I am going to write an article regarding eclipses particularly as they relate to GWB. He was actually born under two solar and 1 lunar eclipse. The immediate one prior to his birth was June 29,1946 Saros series 2 New North "this family of eclipses relates to sudden collapse of plans or life styles...Confusion will reign but the lone-term effects are those of rebuilding and transformation"

The most interesting thing about this is the last eclipse before the 2000 election occured July 31, 2000. That eclipse was also Saros series 2 New North. The ancients would say that GWB was destined to be President at this time for the very purpose of being a catalyst to lead the US into a breakdown and transformation of the country, like it or not all of this would astrologically be interpreted as GWB is where he should be for this time, the question is "do we (the country) need another 4 years for transformation?" Bush has moved out from under that particular Eclipse influence, even though Kerry doesn't move into a destiny Eclipse phase, neither does Edwards. So we will have to wait and see

Posted by: Sally on September 1, 2004 08:40 PM

Spies in the Pentagon and singing canaries:

http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=3479

Posted by: shylurker on September 1, 2004 08:43 PM

This comment goes back to the post about horary astrology, which i know little about, and the author Barbara H. Watters. (I was surprised to find that she was born 10 days after my dad)....but, in all my studies, I had NEVER heard of her! But this is what Nancy Fenn's take is, and I love it (so should we look closely at what Neptune and the trines are doing in the RCN chart/Bush chart?:
It was Watters who first said, "Neptune never fulfills its promises." Another of my favorites among her many dramatic and colorful statements is, "Masochism is the monkey on the back of Neptune." Look at this woman. She has her Moon and Saturn in Pisces. Her North Node conjuncts Neptune. Who would know better than her? I like to get my astrology from the people who live it and learned it in the School of Hard Knocks.

and from Sex and the Planets:
"the exception to the rule" phenomenon.

" ... I haven't missed out on the "fun" of the grand trine. I was born with 2 of them in my chart. I have only studied astrology for 43 years. I haven't yet decided what I think of grand trines. I told you that the ancient and classical astrologers considered it evil. Marc Edmund Jones, when he was a missionary on the Bowery, found that the charts of the drunks and drifters who came to church to get warm abounded in multiple trines and sextiles and lacked hard aspects. I am not responsible for those observations or opinions. They are worthy of consideration because they are contrary to a commonly accepted view and because they were expressed by astrologers devoted to their art. Years ago I did a study of mental illness and found the grand trine so over-represented in the charts of schizophrenics and manic depressives that I had to end up naming it one of the signatures of psychosis. Now please don't say I called you psychotic because you have a grand trine.

http://www.bemyastrologer.com/barbara_watters.html

Posted by: judi on September 1, 2004 08:49 PM

and some more on Neptune, which seems SO descriptive of a certain Resident and his Party.. :
I love her treatment of Neptune in Sex and the Outer Planets. Many people have done Uranus and Pluto well, but this treatment of Neptune is outstanding and without equal. With Neptune aspecting her North Node, who would have a better right to take a real shot at this planet than Watters?

I personally have seen the most appalling suffering caused by people misusing Neptunian energy. It is, for example, a classic ingredient in the modus operandi of the psychopath, and to some extent, the borderline personality. These people at some level have no boundaries at all and so slide into the imaginative world of a susceptible person they are trying to feed off of for awhile (who plays the Neptunian end of the arrangment) and discovers their deepest needs, the things people "scarcely dare to dream of" and then appears to offer them this. If you doubt that this is possible, read some passages in this book as to the extent of the Neptunian "fog". Of course, the victim at some point wakes up but usually after having been relieved of many things, both material and spiritual.

Posted by: judi on September 1, 2004 08:54 PM


I have found trines to be "lazy" aspects, one has so much that comes easily to them in their youth they never learn to deal with adversity nor do they live up to the potential of their chart due to a lack of hard aspects to kick them in the butt and teach them to dig down to their strengths.

The best trine would be when there is a kite involved, that's when one of the planets opposes a planet that sextiles both ends of a grand trine. Also an out of sign trine works like a square. Example Sun 28 Sag. Uranus 28 Aries and the Moon 1 degree Virgo. They all still trine but one leg (the Moon) of the trine is out of sign.

Posted by: Sally on September 1, 2004 09:09 PM

ah, i remember being 20 something and doing a chart for this "badboy" that I had the hots for. his chart was just beautiful. lots of trines, harmony harmony everywhere.
And he WAS lazy. too lazy for a relationship, too lazy for morals and too lazy for ethics..
ugh!
i'm a fast learner!

Posted by: mimi on September 1, 2004 09:41 PM

Josh has a 'juicy' bit of news:

A bit more on Ben Barnes, the guy from Texas who got President Bush into the Guard way-back-when.

Apparently, the attacks on Kerry's war record just proved too much for him. As we've noted previously, for almost a decade now Barnes has gone to
Advertisement



Terrorists Seize Russian School

Turkey Changes Laws to Meet EU Standards

WTO Allows EU Trade Sanctions on US

Couple Sues Travel Company Over Terror Attack

Remembering Germany's Darkest Day

Legalizing the Right To Know

Opinion: Is Chechnya Russia's Palestine?

German Press Review: Bad Public Relations




great lengths to avoid causing trouble for the president on the Guard matter. And the Bush folks in Texas have made it clear to him during this election cycle that if he spills the beans about the president that they'll do everything in their power to put him out of business in the state (Barnes is now a lobbyist). And that heat has, I'm told, increased dramatically in recent days.

But apparently those threats haven't done the trick because he has already taped a lengthy interview slated to appear in the not-too-distant future on a major national news show in which he'll describe the strings he pulled to keep Bush out of Vietnam and apparently more.

(Between you and me, according to my three sources on this, Barnes told his story to Dan Rather -- remember, the Texas connection -- for 60 Minutes.)

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com

Posted by: Jo on September 1, 2004 10:21 PM

Oops! Sorry, my bad! I didn't clean up my cut and paste, I left the adv in... guess I better preview next time. Sally, just delete it... it's a mess. thanks

Posted by: Jo on September 1, 2004 10:24 PM

Jo, it doesn't look bad, what did you want me to delete

Posted by: Sally on September 1, 2004 10:37 PM


Michael Moore on McCain....

http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/news/20040901/oplede01.art.htm

Posted by: wv on September 1, 2004 10:49 PM

Sally, I've always used that lazy thing with the trines....I don't have a lot myself, but I do have an enormous amount of sextiles....so I am less lazy, I guess! Never been lazy with work when I have it, but procrastination used to be a horrible problem.

But anyway, Jo thanks for that Ben Barnes update....I've been inundated with stuff from a guy named Hackman in MI who is very rightwing. It happens periodically, and I was delighted to be able to copy THAT piece ....!

Posted by: judi on September 1, 2004 10:57 PM

Morgana, have you heard from Bahkti? What's happening with the Mac problem?

Posted by: judi on September 1, 2004 11:04 PM

Sally, it was the multi-spaced lines appearing in Josh Marshall's piece on Ben Barnes... if you think it's okay, just leave it... I promise to be more careful next time!

Posted by: Jo on September 1, 2004 11:12 PM

I would just like to say a few words in defense of all us grand triners out there, who, believe it or not, have very hard times like all the rest. Growing up with a Borderline Personality Disorder mother, just for starters. Being attacked and nearly raped at 21 was fun, too. And being alone for most of one's adult life has really been a picnic. Now if you'll excuse me, a box of bonbons awaits... ; ) Peace.

Posted by: Hard-working grand triner on September 1, 2004 11:19 PM

Hey hard working grandtriner...! I am wondering if all of these trine aspects mean that we might EXPECT life to be easy....kind of like being an innocent in a big bad world...and then reality bites. The "lazy" appellation may apply when we don't perceive that we need to work harder (that happened to me in high school....valedictorian, but still, one teacher said I had just skated through and not done the work and as my dad died the first week of my senior year, could have had a profound effect on me, too)....but I have to agree with Sally. I don't have a grand trine, but several plain trines. So I can't speak from personal history. But it just seems that as a general rule, it is how we percieve should be....when it isn't, we are presented with those "growth opportunities'.....heheheheheh, yeh.

Posted by: judi on September 1, 2004 11:57 PM

Zell Miller is speaking tonight at the RNC convention....I wonder if he will be announcing a party change too?

Posted by: judi on September 2, 2004 12:09 AM

Went knocking about the archives here. Mercury's influence I guess, but what a wealth of information. Found something Vis had written about the GOP 2004 convention, back in April of 2003. Interesting, in retrospect, but I doubt GWB will accept his nomination before 9:00pm, sigh.

Sally, you are going write something on the eclipses? Don't forget, George W Bush formally declared his candidacy for re election on May 16, 2003 (no time given). There was a lunar eclipse the evening before, May 15, 2003 at 11:36pm EDT, Wash DC (Thanks to Claudia's Starcats eclipse info) Mercury was Rx in Taurus then and the focal point of an opp between a mars/neptune in Aqu and Jupiter in Leo.

Posted by: Shade on September 2, 2004 12:10 AM

Just getting caught up on the posts (again.)

Chas, I love your posts, but do you think you could hit the return button once in a while and break them into paragraphs?

Namaste~
~D

Posted by: Dommael on September 2, 2004 12:19 AM

Well...the PUKE factor is on the rise....first I get an email passed from a friend who was sent it by a rightwinger STATING that Max Cleland was "no hero" and that he lost three limbs in Vietnam because he was drinking beer and picked up a grenade....I literally felt my stomach turn over....this must be what they wrote about him and why he lost that election. And then I googled, and of course, the big PUKE factor was that Ann Coulter wrote that story back in Feb. I've got good PUKE radar.

THen went to TalkingPoints and this is developing story:
More on Soros and Hastert.

The Hill has a piece in Wednesday's paper in which the reporter asked Hastert's spokesman John Feehery whether he had any evidence of Soros' ties or funding by drug cartels. Feehery makes clear that he and his boss have no evidence for this whatsoever but insist that they stand behind the vaguely but ominously worded accusation.

(See this link for actual video of what Haster said. It's worth taking a moment to watch it because the bare words of text don't really do it justice.)

These are scary times. And it's an ominous sign of the times that the Speaker of the House can float such a false and extremely defamatory charge and have the behavior go almost unnoticed in the press.

Think about it.
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/

Posted by: judi on September 2, 2004 12:25 AM

Judi thanks for the Barbra Watters Link.She and Liz Geene are two of my favorites.
FWIW its worth Kerrys has Jupiter trine his natal Uranus On election day.
Also for what it is worth the last time a hurricane followed the path of Charley a enator from Mass was running for president who was a former Pt boat captain with the intials JFK. Said senator went on to win the presidental election.In 2004 we have a senator from Mass.running for the presidencey who is a former PT boat captain with the intials JFK.
Was Charley a FORSAHDOWING OF What HAPPENED IN 1960?
And the last time a hurricane took the track that Francis should take it was 1992 and an incumbent president named Bush was running for the presidency.This man Bush was to go on to loose the election that fall.Is Francis an indication of history repeating itself?
And next Jnuary 20th Jupiter sets up in a month long stationary trine to my natal sun mercury conjunction in Gemini.I should be feeling pretty good at that time.Cant imagine feeling good if Bush was president.
Interesting discussion of grand trines.There is lot of evidence to support much of what has been said in the previous posts.



Posted by: Chas on September 2, 2004 12:38 AM

Hey, hey! An uplifting prediction... a LANDSLIDE for Kerry:

http://www.astrology-x-files.com/astrology/kerry2004.htm

Posted by: Lucy on September 2, 2004 12:45 AM

Typos in my previous post were my e soft ware doing it. Iam this time innocent.I could not type a letter without taking out a letter.Hard to edit that way.
It was Donna by the way that took the track of Charley and then shot up the east coast in 1960.Has not been a hurricane like that since then.
Francis could be a repeat of Andrew in 1992.
Perhaps we should not make too much of this but as you see Iam always looking for other confirmations of my orginal Kerry Bush analysis.

Posted by: Chas on September 2, 2004 12:50 AM

Lucy,
Thank you for that Link.I think this astrology is the real deal.That kind of astrology is a lost art in our modern world but is very accurate when it comes to predictions.I tried to get the hang of it and decided it was too much work and opted for the Vedic Which is easier for me and also very good when it comes to predictions.

Posted by: Chas on September 2, 2004 01:01 AM


8:08 EDT is the nomination time.........I just saw it while suffering thru some Hardball lol

Posted by: Teg on September 2, 2004 01:10 AM

George W Bush was just nominated by the convention at 8:08 PM EDT New York, New York.

Posted by: Pat C on September 2, 2004 01:11 AM

Heh, cross post with TEG. We are suffering this sham.

Posted by: Pat C on September 2, 2004 01:12 AM

Spent today tracking down some stuff I vaguely remembered from 2000. Then Lee Lehman had gathered pretty reliable charts of the two main presidential candidates in 14 races. She was using the sample to try to find a predictor for winning.

"Asking one question, 'Whose progressed Vertex is closest to the Midheaven?' results in 14 wins and 0 losses!"

Well, then Lee went on to say that this would indicate a slight edge for Gore. I didn't understand how Gore's progressed Vertex could be closer to the his MC, because Bush's natal Vertex looked a degree or so closer to his MC to me, and Bush was two years older so I thought it probably would progress more. But maybe a Vertex wouldn't progress counter-clockwise? I don't know.

Anyhow I often get tripped up on details in Astrology and I was glad to hear of an advantage for Gore so I just put it aside.

Back to 2004. John Kerry's natal Vertex is 29 Cancer 25 and his MC is 5 Libra 59.

Bush's natal Vertex is 23 Sag 38 and his MC is 24 Aires 12.

Wise women and wizards, please comment.

I don't know how to progress a Vertex.

Posted by: Barbara on September 2, 2004 01:21 AM

HEY EVERYBODY,

FOR ME AND THE MILLIONS OF OTHERS WHO LIVE IN FLORIDA. HOW ABOUT YOU ALL FOCUS YOUR ENERGY VISUALIZING HURRICAINE FRANCES GOING NORTHEAST RIGHT NOW HARMLESSLY OUT INTO THE ATLANTIC.

I'M ON MY WAY OUT THE DOOR.........

PEACE

Posted by: Jaycee on September 2, 2004 01:38 AM

Judi,
If memory serves me. . .I believe that Zell Miller--- "That ole good-for-nothing Georgia polecat reprobate is retiring----Good Riddance!!

Posted by: KAP on September 2, 2004 01:45 AM

Jaycee, you bet!

KAP, yes he is retireing, and going out with a bang. I heard he is going to work for the tobacco company.

Posted by: Pat C on September 2, 2004 01:56 AM

http://salon.com/news/feature/2004/09/02/allison/print.html

George W. Bush's missing year
The widow of a Bush family confidant says her husband gave the future president an Alabama Senate campaign job as a favor to his worried father. Did they see him do any National Guard service? "Good lord, no."


Before there was Karl Rove, Lee Atwater or even James Baker, the Bush family's political guru was a gregarious newspaper owner and campaign consultant from Midland, Texas, named Jimmy Allison. In the spring of 1972, George H.W. Bush phoned his friend and asked a favor: Could Allison find a place on the Senate campaign he was managing in Alabama for his troublesome eldest son, the 25-year-old George W. Bush?


"The impression I had was that Georgie was raising a lot of hell in Houston, getting in trouble and embarrassing the family, and they just really wanted to get him out of Houston and under Jimmy's wing," Allison's widow, Linda, told me. "And Jimmy said, 'Sure.' He was so loyal."

Linda Allison's story, never before published, contradicts the Bush campaign's assertion that George W. Bush transferred from the Texas Air National Guard to the Alabama National Guard in 1972 because he received an irresistible offer to gain high-level experience on the campaign of Bush family friend Winton "Red" Blount. In fact, according to what Allison says her late husband told her, the younger Bush had become a political liability for his father, who was then the United States ambassador to the United Nations, and the family wanted him out of Texas. "I think they wanted someone they trusted to keep an eye on him," Linda Allison said.

After more than three decades of silence, Allison spoke with Salon over several days before and during the Republican National Convention this week -- motivated, as she acknowledged, by a complex mixture of emotions. They include pride in her late husband's accomplishments, a desire to see him remembered, and concern about the apparent double standard in Bush surrogates attacking John Kerry's Vietnam War record while ignoring the president's irresponsible conduct during the war. She also admits to bewilderment and hurt over the rupture her husband experienced in his friendship with George and Barbara Bush. To this day, Allison is unsure what caused the break, though she suspects it had something to do with her husband's opposition to the elder Bush becoming chairman of the Republican National Committee under President Nixon.

"Something happened that I don't know about. But I do know that Jimmy didn't expect it, and it broke his heart," she said, describing a ruthless side to the genial Bush clan of which few outsiders are aware.

Personal history aside, Allison's recollections of the young George Bush in Alabama in 1972 are relevant as a contrast to the medals for valor and bravery that Kerry won in Vietnam in the same era. An apparent front group for the Bush campaign, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, has attacked Kerry in television ads as a liar and traitor to veterans for later opposing a war that cost 58,000 American lives. Bush, who has resisted calls from former Vietnam War POW John McCain, R-Ariz., to repudiate the Swift Boat ads, has said he served honorably in the National Guard.

More....

Posted by: Pat C on September 2, 2004 02:21 AM

Are you all sure, Teg, Pat C, that Bush was just nominated at 8:08 pm this evening.Or was that last night.This is huge as both the ascendent and midheaven have invalid dgrees on their cusps. And Moon is square Saturn.Bush cannot win if that time is for tonight and is the time the republicans have chosen him.

Posted by: Chas on September 2, 2004 02:23 AM

http://tinyurl.com/4ys9q

Consumer Reports: Unusual Items on Diebold Financial Ledgers
Submitted by Bev Harris on Tue, 08/31/2004 - 20:11. Investigations
Black Box Voting investigators have obtained copies of Diebold financial ledgers which show some unusual payments and receivables.

The most interesting item on the accounts payable ledger is to Georgia Lottery Services Inc., for approximately $144,000. (Will post document with exact amounts when we return from New York City).

Georgia Lottery Services appears to have nothing whatever to do with the Georgia Lottery. However, this company was listed in an article about pass-through payments (concerning payments to politicians routed through do-nothing corporations) in a 1995 investigation.

Current Georgia corporation documents show that the company was, and still is, owned by Lloyd Baccus, who also handles the medical contract for Fulton County Jails and was an NBA drug doctor.

An article in the Atlanta Constitution dated 11 Jan. 1995, Democratic chief got payment from firm with GTECH ties mentions Georgia Lottery Services, Inc. as "one of at least 16 companies in eight states that routinely receive "pass-through" payments from GTECH without performing any work, according to lawyers and witnesses. "

The article says that according to attorney Frank Haddad, "an Atlanta company, Lottery Services of Georgia, is one of several companies that receive pass-through payments without doing work.."

The article pertained to a Bowling Green, Ky. shell company that received $71,000 in brokerage fees from lottery giant GTECH Corp. which was subsequently investigated for making payoffs to Georgia Democratic Party Chairman Edgar Sims Jr.

More...

Posted by: Pat C on September 2, 2004 02:26 AM

Chas,

My understanding was that Bush got the nomination sewn up with Pennsylvania's vote last night. But if anyone else out there has more credible info regarding the 8:08 time tonight, then that's great! I just remember reading he locked up the nomination last night. Sorry if I've confused anyone unintentionally.

Posted by: Jonathan on September 2, 2004 02:28 AM

Chas, positive. I watched on tv. It was painful.

Posted by: Pat C on September 2, 2004 02:29 AM

Perhaps this was the official announcement. It was made by the Lt. Gov. of Maryland, and then there was "great singing and celebration", so to speak.

Posted by: Pat C on September 2, 2004 02:37 AM

Chas: NEW YORK : The US Republican party on Wednesday officially nominated Vice President Dick Cheney for a second term, placing him on the ticket as President George W. Bush's running mate.

Cheney, 63, was party's the sole candidate for the November 2 ballot and was formally nominated before the 4,800 delgates at the party's national convention in New York's Madison Square Garden.

Advertisement

Republicans also made their nomination of Bush for a second four-year term in the White House unanimous setting the stage for the electoral showdown.

After three days of roll calls among the delegates from the 50 US states, the party announced to thunderous cheers and a burst of victory music that Bush had been selected with no opposition at all.

The move came 24 hours after Bush formally won the nomination when he achieved the mimumum number of 1,255 votes from delegates for his candidacy for the November election in which he will face Democrat John Kerry and his running mate Senator John Edwards.

The president, was to provide the four-day convention's climax with his acceptance speech on Thursday. - AFP

Posted by: bear on September 2, 2004 02:38 AM

Pat C
You have martyred your self for a good cause.
But man this has been an up and down day for me.
I refused to loose the faith but caught mywelf wondering how I could live thru another four years of Bush.Dont think I have to wonder about that now.
My Last nights post about the nomination chart looking good.


Posted by: Chas on September 2, 2004 02:38 AM

I hope I'm wrong about this, but didn't the MC at the Democratic National Convention announce that Kerry had enough votes to make his nomination certain while the moon was V/C?

Posted by: Barbara on September 2, 2004 02:42 AM


How soon will we or Israel bomb Iran???

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/printer_090204A.shtml

Posted by: wv on September 2, 2004 02:43 AM

Barbara the certainty of the out come of the electoral count is not I think what is germaine here.He still has not been officially nominated.Kerry was officially nominated when the Moon had gone into Capricorn and was not void of course.
And Bush was not nominated last night he just had enough delegates to win.Tonight he was nominated, ie chosen after all the votes were in, and that is the time for his being the old new repubs presidential canidate for the presendency of the US.

Posted by: Chas on September 2, 2004 02:50 AM

So, what we're saying, Chas, is that with tonight's Official Time, his chart is a lot more difficult and not supportive of a "Win" in November?

(fingers crossed)

Posted by: Jonathan on September 2, 2004 02:57 AM

Chas, it was worth it to get the time of the nomination....all for the cause.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/articles/04/08/31_threeyears.html

25 Things We Now Know Three Years After 9/11

The Republican Party - in a shameless, all-too-obvious attempt to manipulate the tragedy of 9/11 for partisan ends - chose New York City for its nominating convention. Must have seemed like a great idea at the time.

Their coming to Manhattan not only infuriates New Yorkers, who were badly played by Bush&Co. after the attacks, but enables the rest of us in the country to use Ground Zero as the backdrop for examining the gross failures and crimes of the Bush Administration since that tragic day in September 2001.

So, here is an update* of things we've learned during the three years since 9/11 - documented mostly from government papers and respected journalistic accounts - about the Administration that rules in our names. If you find this compendium useful, you might want to make this list available to your friends and colleagues, especially to those still uncertain which presidential candidate they will vote for ten weeks from now.

More...

...................

This is an interesting piece of history.

 http://salon.com/news/feature/2004/09/02/schlesinger/print.html

When Washington burned
Conventional wisdom says the country comes together during wartime. But that has not always been the case, says historian Arthur Schlesinger Jr. -- not even when the British torched the nation's capital

In an election where partisans on both sides claim the future of American democracy is on the line, Arthur Schlesinger Jr. is entitled to offer some historical advice. Only a few months shy of his 87th birthday, the former advisor to President Kennedy has spent his career defending liberal democracy from Nazism, Communism and its own excesses.


For Americans who see Bush's unilateral foreign policy in apocalyptic terms, Schlesinger's new book, "War and the American Presidency," is a reminder that the executive branch has a history of embroiling the country in global wars under suspect circumstances.

"War customarily expands presidential power," Schlesinger warns. "The imperial presidency has been born again, with its usual cavalier attitude toward due process and individual freedom."

Thomas Jefferson, for example, didn't let his belief in limited executive authority stop him from starting the Barbary War without even informing Congress.

When Schlesinger talks about current events, he usually ends up speaking about American history, and when he talks of the Bush administration, he is worried.

Salon spoke to Schlesinger by phone on Thursday.

A long-standing perception in our country is that after an attack, we come together, dissent stops, and we firmly back the war effort. Does American history support that claim?

Not at all. FDR was a very popular president, but in the midterm congressional elections in 1942, which the interventionists tried to make a "win the war Congress," he lost a lot of seats in the House and some seats in the Senate. And the pre-Pearl Harbor isolationists and America First'ers like Hamilton Fish, in FDR's own district, were returned to office. So it wasn't an antiwar thing, it wasn't a pro-Japanese or pro-German thing, it was anti-Roosevelt.

During the War of 1812, New England states felt they were descendants of Britain, and the trade embargo with the British handicapped them economically. The states joined together in resisting, and very few New England governors assisted the Army by providing it with state militias.

Indeed, even when the British troops invaded Washington, burned the White House, that did not excite the country. People did not fall into line behind the president -- historian Sam Morison said it was the most unpopular war in American history, even including the Vietnam War.

More...

Posted by: Pat C on September 2, 2004 02:58 AM


Chas and Jonathan,

I'm really , really sure it was 8:08 tonite. Chris Matthews said......"And let's go to the floor for the official nomination......then Fla. did their thing...........then they said: "GWB is now the official unanimous choice of this nomination process......or words to that effect

Posted by: Teg on September 2, 2004 03:18 AM

Johnathan,
The nomination chart is absolutly terrible for Bush.There are many other indicaations the Bush nomination chart is bad for Bush other than the ones I know Barbarra Watters would say would indicate Bush cannot win.
She, by the way, predicted that neither Nixon or Agnew would finish their terms simply beacuse their inaguaration chart in 1973 had an invalid ascendent.

Posted by: Chas on September 2, 2004 03:21 AM

Dick Cheney accepted the nomination for VP at 10;24 PM EDT, New York, New York.

Posted by: Pat C on September 2, 2004 03:25 AM

Got an e-mail from Nancy on the Bush nomination.

"MC and Asc are both in the 29th degree of endings. Saturn Venus conjunct; Moon waxing into a square with Saturn. Not a great chart."

((((((((((smile))))))))))

Posted by: Pat C on September 2, 2004 03:30 AM

Chas, thanks for reassuring words. I was afraid we were taking the time of when Kerry actually accepted the nomination (I breathed a sigh of relief when the moon moved into Capricorn) and comparing that with the time that Bush had just received enough delegate votes to be officially nominated. (Apples and oranges, so to speak. Or maybe apples and a lemon.)

If we are comparing the times each was officially nominated I guess we're in good shape. Thanks Teg and all those stalwart souls watching the spectacle.

Anybody got any thoughts on that vertex thing?

Posted by: Barbara on September 2, 2004 03:32 AM

Chas, I didn't end up posting as much as I could have today, because for about an hour or so, when I would type an email or try to post, letters would just drop out....it happened on one of my posts on this board....and then just slammed me. It seems to be ok now. I thought I was going to have to buy a new keyboard!

Boy...love that vertex information...Kerry's vertex conjuncts my Venus/Mc at 0'31" Leo.....and Jupiter is 25 Cancer....could I interpret this as Kerry wins and I finally get back to having WORK? ahahahahah

Posted by: judi on September 2, 2004 03:33 AM

BTW, what is an "invalid ascendant"?

Posted by: Barbara on September 2, 2004 03:36 AM

Just don't watch PBS!
Zell Miller is being a "rapid dog'! What an awful man! I wonder about his chart?
The Democrats speeches were so positive & full of hope, The Repigs are so negative!!!
That's a typo above, I think it fits....there are no accidents!
Well we turned it off, my son couldn't take it any more & has gone upstairs to read "Worse than Watergate" by John Dean.

I have an earth & water trine in my chart, with Moon (scorpio) & pluto (cancer) in mutual reception......2nd house/ 6th house. I am definitely NOT lazy, or have I had an easy life!
although at times things have come to me easily. Perhaps my mars in capricorn ( 8th) squared my saturn in aries (11th) has been the redeming factor in my chart, if I have erred in my life it has been as too close a "handmaiden " to saturn, my taskmaster.
I always liked those trines, knowing that the very same brought the world; Gone With the Wind, & The Wizard of Oz!!!!!!!!
Thank you Sally, Morgana, Nancy & Isabell, for the richly descriptive articles. It seems the current tension & suspense, spur you an to ever more creative writing!
Pat QOP

Posted by: Pat on September 2, 2004 03:39 AM

Sorry....Isabelle......couldn't check it withoutlosing the post!
QOP

Posted by: Pat on September 2, 2004 03:40 AM

Another great Salon story out of TX, Pat....thanks for posting that. Pretty much lays it out in simple terms....and is what the wealthy always did with their troubled kids....sent them away to school, to Europe, to boarding school, etc....Yes, the Bush family is very Borgia like....

Posted by: judi on September 2, 2004 03:41 AM

I am really retrograding tonite. Chas, you brought up Barbara H. Watters? I have her book called, "The Astrologer Looks At Murder." Read it quite awhile ago. Will have to take another look. Wow, it only cost $1.95, those were the days...... Meanwhile NYC is like a city invaded by a virus. Who knew the second terrorist attack would be by the RNC? Ugh, the TV is on blackout, I refuse to go there. Second hand info via internet is all right by me. One more day, just one more day of this madness of crowds. So, here's to GWB's New York minute, a flash in time, hopefully soon to be extinguished.

Only thing is, this mid Sept line up on USA neptune bothers me, plus you got the Saturn opp USA pluto with a bit of Chiron in the mix which was the signature of the first Gulf War. And trans Pluto opp USA Mars, squaring all the Virgo stuff?? Ok, will Iran be attacked then? Or am I just Gertie Glooming it? Wouldn't be the first time.

Posted by: Shade on September 2, 2004 03:44 AM

I received an e-mail from my aunt in Panama City this evening. Apparently, she's waiting for an evacuation order even on the panhandle. Frances is going to have a long reach.

Posted by: Teresa on September 2, 2004 03:46 AM


Why, oh why do the Brits see us much more
clearly than we do....Flogging the Flag...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,5006309-112564,00.html

Posted by: wv on September 2, 2004 04:02 AM


More Blumenthal...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,5006343-103677,00.html

Posted by: wv on September 2, 2004 04:05 AM

Barbara,
An Invalid ascendent is when the last three degrees of a sign or the first three degrees are on the cusp.As Nancy pointed out above the Repubs chart tonight has 29 degrees Pisces on the ascendent. Midheaven is also invalid at 29 degrees sag. and as this represents the canidate in judgeing an event of this nature it is almost as important as the ascendent.
Shade,
The book ,The Astrologer Looks at Murder,By watteres defnetly worth a re-read.I especially liked the one on Lizzie Borden.I once went thru all the charts of murders in Lois Roddens black covered book of charts of criminals.Mars with the nodes especially with the south node and hard aspects of the nodes mars and the the Sun to Saturn, Pluto and Neptune especially in mutable signs was the predominant signiture of a cruel person.I was surprised at how often the south node with mars turned up.

Posted by: Chas on September 2, 2004 04:10 AM

Did anyone progress the Vx's of the candidates? I have solar fire and came up with GWB's progressed Vertex for Nov 2, 2004 at 24 Pisces 13, giving it a distance of 46 deg and 46 min from his natal MC. That's if I did it correctly.

John Kerry's progressed Vx for Nov. is at 12 deg Virgo 42 which places it at 22 deg and 57 min from his natal MC. So Kerry's would be closer? It's a merc rx, so I could be off.

Posted by: Shade on September 2, 2004 04:17 AM

What are the thinking??? After he screwed them
so badly, and closed firehouses.....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,1282,-4468177,00.html

Posted by: wv on September 2, 2004 04:19 AM

NO way! It must be some politicos at the top, who are not particularly interested in the welfare of the fire department.

Posted by: Pat C on September 2, 2004 04:23 AM

wv,

I actually spoke with the firefighters tonight in my neighborhood (in the Village) and they said that that Union represents just a small part of the firefighters in the City and many of them strongly disagree with this endorsement. I asked if any of them were feeling a little "sick" (as in a massive Sick Day to protest) and the firefighter I was talking to just smiled and said I had a beautiful dog (he was petting my pooch at the time ... we were on our nightly walk).

So, you can bet this Union will be getting a TON of phone calls and e-mails.

Chas,

Thanks for the chart info. Can't WAIT for the articles! :-)

Posted by: Jonathan on September 2, 2004 04:23 AM

Jonathan, as I was thinking.

Posted by: Pat C on September 2, 2004 04:25 AM

http://www.counterpunch.org/

High Plains Grifter

The Life and Crimes of George W. Bush

Part Two: Mark His Words

Sex and politics often seem to conflate in George W. Bush's mind. In 1975, young George, fresh out of Harvard Business School, followed his father to China, where he was keen testing the receptiveness of the Chinese to infusions of Texas capital. Soon bored by detailed discussions of international finance, Bush began hitting on his translators and other Chinese women. One Yale coed who came into Bush's orbit recalled: "He was always one of the fastest guys on campus in trying to get his hands in your pants." This friskiness didn't set well with the decorous crowd then running China and he was discreetly directed to evacuate the country in order to save his father, the new ambassador to Peking, further embarrassment.

During the 1988 Republican convention, David Fink, a reporter with the Hartford Courant, asked Bush what he talked about with his father when they weren't jawing about politics. "Pussy," George W. quipped. Take that mom.

More....

Posted by: Pat C on September 2, 2004 04:49 AM

Have feeling Frances is going to ursurp the Repubs news cycle post convention maybe even tomorrow night.Storm is still a long ways off but is looking like one of the biggest baddest storms I have ever seen.Iam sure if I were a fundamentalist I would say this is the punishment provided by providence for haveing a Bush as governer and stealing an election.

Being a Gemini is no excuse for all my typos.Iam going to to put a stop to this right now.
Ah.... dont hold your breath

Posted by: Chas on September 2, 2004 05:07 AM

Oh, just type away, Chas! At least you aren't double-posting (I even triple-posted one time!).

Really appreciate all your comments and insights into the astrological aspects of all this. Seems like their little convention was a big mess. Zell lost it! Ahhhhhhhnold invoked Nixon (Nixon?--eeeeeek!). Cheney just did Cheney, and apparently didn't do that very well. And now, for the grand finale--Smirky himself. I hope that moveable stage he's on gets stuck and he goes bananas with claustrophobia.

Posted by: shylurker on September 2, 2004 05:22 AM

Geeeez, I just can't wait for tomorrow's AP photos. Here are a couuple from tonight.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/9/1/235320/8050

Posted by: Pat C on September 2, 2004 05:38 AM

Pat C,
I went to Daily Kos and got a look at those pictures. OMG!!! Read the comments and the have a look at the creative photoshop pictures. . .I haven't laughed that hard in a long time. . .What a pathetic sick,evil bunch of creeps.

Scare Night-Zell Miller/Dick Cheney
by Kos
Thu Sep 2nd, 2004
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/9/1/235320/8050

Posted by: KAP on September 2, 2004 06:45 AM

here is something you can put in the back of your minds and check out in the not too distant future:

which major corporation(s) will select zell miller as a member of their board(s)...haliburton, carlyle, ge

i'm sure this was promised when he switched and will be delivered after the election.

inquiring minds want to know!

Posted by: mike on September 2, 2004 06:54 AM

geez, the posts today have me so worked up, i'm going to rip the doors off my car and then spend an hour or so on DU!

Posted by: mike on September 2, 2004 06:55 AM

Mike,
The Zeller “The Grim Reaper” Miller” will be getting his Groove on with Big Tobacco. . .and I am sure you are right we will also be seeing some Impressive Board appointments for pay back!

Posted by: KAP on September 2, 2004 07:12 AM

Barbara,

I get for Bush a progressed vertex next Nov 2 at 7 degrees Pisces. For kerry I get 12 degrees Virgo.So Kerrys progressed Vertex is only 23 degrees from the midheaven and Bush's is 46 degrees from the midheaven.

Is another confirmation that the other indications we have of a Kerry win are spot on.

Posted by: Chas on September 2, 2004 07:18 AM

Everybody!!! If you have basic cable tune in Comedy Central this morning at 10 AM EDT or this evening at 7 PM EDT and hope that the repeat they show at those times will be last night's (Wed. Sept 1) show.

Jon Stewart announced last night (with a Very straight face) that The Daily Show had been provided an advance copy of the film to be shown at the RNC Sept 2.

Then they showed the film, entitled "Words Are More Important Than Deeds" It was brilliant mock praise with clip after clip of Bush contradicting both himself and the facts. Got to tape that!

Watch for it and make a copy for your friends if you can.

Posted by: Barbara on September 2, 2004 12:45 PM

Shade and Chas, thanks for info on the progressed Vertex.

Shade, next time you are working with Solar Fire could you check out Bush's progressed Vertex for Nov. 7, 2000 compared to Gore's for that date? Gore's dob is Mar 31, 1948 Washington DC, 12:53 PM EDT.

I'm just thinking it would be interesting if Gore's and Bush's progressed Vx were both about the same distance from their respective MCs in that election.

Posted by: Barbara on September 2, 2004 01:20 PM

I remember, during the Democratic Convention, hearing about the TV ratings eg. first night so-so, second night a little better, and then over 22 million watching Kerry's acceptance speech. Has anyone heard anything about the ratings for the Repugs Lie Fest?

Posted by: Jonathan on September 2, 2004 02:09 PM

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/columnist/2004-09-01-moore_x.htm

Michael Moore

Tonight, it's show time for George W. Bush, and I can't wait to hear what he has to tell the Republican convention.

It has been a pretty thrilling week so far, my favorite moment by far being the rebellious Bush twins who, in just a few short minutes, delivered on their promise to issue "payback" to their parents and all authority in general. (Related stories: Moore index page)

They revealed their parents' pet name for each other: "Bushie" or "Bushy" — no spelling was provided. They seemed to have embarrassed their grandmother with a joke about the TV show Sex and the City as a place to have sex. And they claimed to have seen their boogieing parents "shake it like a Polaroid picture." That's one picture that took the rest of the night for me to shake out of my head.

Nonetheless, I loved the Bush daughters: They were funny, sassy and free spirits. Back in 1999, they told their father in no uncertain terms that they did not want him to run for president. They wanted their dad at home, they wanted their privacy, and they wanted to go to college in peace. He chose to ignore their pleas — and I guess Tuesday night was their way of saying, "Thanks, Dad."

More...

Posted by: Pat C on September 2, 2004 02:42 PM

Just so y'all know, a friend of mine who's a Moderate Republican and had been on the fence about Bush just called me to say, after last night's Hate Fest between Zell Miller and Cheney, that she's definitely switched her vote to Kerry. She said that after watching last night, everyone's going to think she's as hateful as Zell and Dick if she votes Republican this year!

Do you think the grand pooh-bahs at the Bush Campaign are regretting making Zell keynote speaker? Nothing at all like what the Dems had with Barak Obama! :-)

Besides, the Zell and Dick Show (which is ALL over the news this morning) now replaces Ahhhhhhnold from the night before in the collective memory of the average American voter. Now they're asking themselves, "this is the Moderate Republican Party that was sold to me the other night? I don't think so!" Good for Kerry, not so good for BelzeeBush.

Posted by: Jonathan on September 2, 2004 02:48 PM

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A52527-2004Sep1?language=printer

Cheney Calls Kerry Unfit

Posted by: Pat C on September 2, 2004 03:04 PM

Yes, I think I / we can safely celebrate now, after 4 years of feeling like I was duck-taped to one end of a boomerang.

You're welcome, Chas, for the link to the "landslide" article (by a Naderite, no less!), and thank you for all your hope-inducing insight!!

About when to calculate the nomination - would it not be something like casting a chart for a wedding - you wouldn't use the time when the engagement was made, you'd use the day and time of the wedding itself, no? So, I hope we are safely into the Saturn/Moon thing with Chimp, and the US Sun going into Pisces (ever since I read that, I have felt there was no way we would have nother four years of GI Joe) will coincide with a new President and Vice President who acatually have souls and beating hearts.

Posted by: Lucy on September 2, 2004 03:10 PM

Ugh! Sorry for typos, and I meant if you were calculating a chart for the wedding itself, not the relationship as a whole. Gawd, I don't know - just can't take anymore emotional whiplash. President Kerry. President Kerry. PRESIDENT KERRY!!! : )

Posted by: Lucy on September 2, 2004 03:14 PM

Unless Bush needs his usual early bedtime, the moon will have gone into Taurus, and will no longer be void of course. I understand they will be doing his speech in the round rather than the podium.

This from Jeff Hauser:

in 2000, Karl Rove had the media believing CA and NJ -- where the
Bushies spent time and, in CA, big $$$ -- were in play. Gore won by
wellmore than points in each state. In turn, most Dems thought Gore would
get crushed. In point of fact, Gore won narrowly.

The reality is that Kerry is the clear favorite, even has he has not
developed the commanding lead Dems believe in their guts he should have
developed. I could analyze those beliefs -- and, in fact, I have -- but I
cannot, for reasons of discretion, share that analysis. But I suggest you
consider my oft-stated take from the winter -- just because Bush is not
going to lose by a morally appropriate margin doesn't mean he isn't going to
lose. We need to work our asses off and give every last discretionary dime
to the effort [TO THE DNC (
https://www.democrats.org/epatriots/give.html?sourcecode=E000645 ) or to
WORTHY CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATES: http://actblue.com/list/njdcpac ], and it
obviously isn't over in a good sense either, but I'd way rather be us than
them, and even if Kerry runs an imperfect campaign, he'll probably win.

Posted by: Pat C on September 2, 2004 03:42 PM

Regarding the talk of Invalid Ascendants, how does having an Invalid Ascendant (or MC) affect a chart?

Also, regarding the Firefighters who endorsed Bush, the firehouse is in a heavily Republican enclave in Queens and the Firefighters Union that gave it's endorsement is a Local, not one that represents the Firefighters here in the City or even on Long Island. You think the Media would report that it's a local one, you know? Hmmmmmm ...

Posted by: Jonathan on September 2, 2004 04:26 PM

Jonathan, I checked "he who shall not be named" last nite (rhymes with sludge)and Fox was doing great, over 5 mil viewers beating out the regular networks, which all 3 were around 4.5 mil. Cnn came in behind MSNBC which was 1.5 mil, or something like that.

It is really making me queasy how the media is covering last nite. Journalistic integrity has sunk to an all time low. Although, I did catch David Guergin (sp?)on CNN saying Zell's speech was like seeing Lester Maddox, with whom I guess Zell began his political career.

Whoa Barb! Here it is, I don't even have to convert the signs to degrees of the circle. GWB MC 24 AR 13, Prog VX for Nov 7 '00 was at 29AQ 20.

Al Gore MC 21 AR 53, Prog VX 20 AQ 08.

Shows who really won with an approx 2 deg difference for Al and an approx 5 deg for GWB. Insert Twilight Zone music now..............

Posted by: Shade on September 2, 2004 04:57 PM

OH BOY....I have an invalid ascendant! 0 deg. Scorpio! And MC/IC/Desc....not to mention, 2/8, 3/9 !

I think that if one has lots of trines but also have opp. and squares, it is a great chart. I have mostly sextiles, no opp to speak of, and no squares....but tons of conjunctions. I fight procrastination ALL the time. But then, jump into things....I am quite alive, thank you, because I am saved by Mars in Aries....!

God, I love this board....

ANd oh...genealogy kicking in here....Lizzie Borden was a cousin of my dad's....out of the Wood/Bowen family roots in Dartmouth, MA. Quakers, all of them....

Posted by: judi on September 2, 2004 05:33 PM

Regarding invalid ascendants, I believe that they are referring to ascendants that are more than 27 degrees from the start of the rising sign. There is a belief that this is similar to a void of course moon. In horary astrology, a late degree ascendant meant to Lilly that the querent asked the question in vain (that the issue was moot and the answer already decided). They represent issues that are being finished and therefore are not meant for getting a powerful start into something new. Some astrologers say that a late degree ascendant in a chart means that the chart should not be read, but many ancient sources did read late degree charts to success. It really depends upon the context of the chart. The astrologer should try to see where he/she is indicated in the chart and see if that indication is impaired (and should therefore not read the chart). The problem is often times, the astrologer is too impaired to see the indication in the first place if such an indication exists.

BTW, in the article in my Astrology X-File Cabinet, when I wrote that it looks like a landlside for Kerry, I meant exactly that, that it LOOKS like a landslide from contrasting the two charts of Bush and Kerry in favor of Kerry. I would like to see differing opinions because I have not had the time to do a thorough enough work up to be convinced that I am seeing things correctly.

Posted by: Curt Manwaring on September 2, 2004 05:33 PM

I forgot to mention the first 3 degrees in the sign also (meaning that the issue is too premature to be judged).

Posted by: Curt Manwaring on September 2, 2004 05:36 PM

Slate commentary that nails it head on......

http://slate.msn.com/id/2106109/

out with haters, in with planners....
"Ker-ry!""Ker-ry!""Ker-ry!""Ker-ry!""Ker-ry!""Ker-ry!""Ker-ry!"

Posted by: Garry on September 2, 2004 05:58 PM

I was reading a little bit from an astrologer saying that there are really no fixed points in a birth (and watching his own daughter getting born, as I have me two grand children) you realize...is it when the head is crowning, or the baby is all the way out , or when the first cry, or whimper, etc. happens....it is a process ...even death is a process...it is when the live person says the dead one is dead! But obviously because of documentation, there is something going on with this 27,28,29 thru 0,1,2, degrees....that it would be called an invalid situation. I LOVE that the astrologer him or herself would be impaired also! I know that I have read that the Lord of Karma rules the 29th degree of fixed signs (don't know what is indicated for mutable and cardinal)....which would fit into explanation; it is like the number 9 in numerology....the end of the cycle, or end of the story! On to the next thing.

Posted by: judi on September 2, 2004 06:23 PM

Thanks, Shade, I think that the fact the distances between each candidate's MC and progressed Vx were so close in 2000 is a bit more evidence that this is a good predictor.

As most of us Floridians know, some counties had not completed one recount (as required by FL law when an election is close) and trays of ballots from predominately Democratic precincts in Duval County (Jacksonville) were "lost" and never counted.

Not to mention the people illegally dropped from the voting roles, the "butterfly ballot" etc. And Jeb is working to pull off the same stunt this time. (Though this time a lot of other people are working for a honest election.)

Posted by: Barbara on September 2, 2004 06:23 PM

Rob Couteau has some great stuff on transcendental astrology....I was looking at Transcendental Uranus, and came up with this, which might explain the dramatic shifts in consciousness (like Zellelephant's)
In modern psychological literature, Jung notes that enantiodromia is synonymous with "the emergence of the unconscious opposite in the course of time. This characteristic phenomenon practically always occurs when an extreme, one-sided tendency dominates conscious life; in time an equally powerful counterposition is built up, which first inhibits the conscious performance and subsequently breaks through the conscious control." And, he adds, "Sooner or later everything runs into its opposite." Such reversals include the sudden shift from one extreme form of behavior, perception, or ideation into an (seemingly) opposite form or way of being.
http://www.dominantstar.com/turanus.htm

Posted by: judi on September 2, 2004 06:39 PM

on Dystopia, which seems to embody this RNC...
Improper manifestation of the energy:

Because one person's idea of freedom may exactly portray or depend on another person's sense of nightmarish confinement, Uranus is also associated with "negative utopias." In modern literature, this genre (also called the dystopia) describes the "perfectly" organized society which, with its mania for creating the ideal social-collective, perfectly excludes all that is idiosyncratic and individual in humankind. Ironically, while Uranus may inspire an individual with the "divinity" of intuitive revelation, in its negative manifestation social leaders may improperly identify with Uranian energy and become overwhelmed by an impulse to "free" the individual of any higher responsibility by dictating to him what his social role should be. Uranus thus becomes negatively channeled when such leaders have not experienced the ultimate freedom: reinvention of the self through personal growth, i.e., the individuation process actualized in their own lives.

Posted by: judi on September 2, 2004 06:41 PM

Asc. degrees in a natal chart is a different interpretation than in a Horary chart. As far as critical degrees those come from Indian astrology in which the Zodiac is divided into 28 parts, each having approximately 13 degrees, which is the average daily movement of the Moon. In older texts on medical astrology, some cusps of lunar houses were called "critical or tempting" degrees. Some astrological schools were taking all cusps of the lunar houses as critical degrees, while other schools were taking the cusps of lunar houses as critical degrees using only the cusps of the 1st, 8th, 15th and 22nd house. To make a long story short, starting from the 0 degrees of Aries there is a total of 28 lunar houses and 28 critical degrees.

The vertex is related to personal relationships because it usually falls in the 5th,6th 7th or 8th house ,it's the anti-vertex that falls on the 11th, 12th,1st house or 2nd house. You might want to take a look at what's called the East Point, falling in the 12th or 1st house and is always within a 5 degree square to the Midheaven.

I have a paper on this someplace and will look for it later to see if there is more info in it (I know I have it I just haven't seen it in 10 years.)

As for the Vedic, look at the Dasas/Bhukti's of Kerry and Bush chart, that seems to be the most accurate predictively.

Posted by: Sally on September 2, 2004 08:45 PM

Raj, can you help out with the Dasas/Bhuktis of Kerry's and Bush's charts? Tanks.

Posted by: shylurker on September 2, 2004 09:28 PM

b Scare night
by kos

Zell Miller n' dick cheney

i http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/9/1/235320/8050

Posted by: JoannaOregon on September 2, 2004 09:54 PM

I can see I have created some confusion in talking about invalid ascendents.
First we need to understand that an event chart is different from an hoary chart.

A hoary chart is erected to answer an inquiry.In an hoary chart saturn in the seventh means it cant be judged as the astrolger will error.An invalid ascendent probably means the question being asked is too soon or too late for consideration depending on whether or not the signs on the cusp are the first three degrees or the last three degrees.

Now an event chart can always be judged and that is what we have for the moment the repubs announce they have arrived at their choice for who they as a party are going to put up for president.If the degree is late as was the case last night we can still judge the chart but what it should mean is that there man is now redundtant as what he stands for is old and no longer an issue with the voters.Thus he will loose.

Had we gotton early degrees on the ascendent
it would mean they had chosen too quickly and im pestuously and that what there man stood for was something thast was too early to push and thus would likly loose.

Judi there is no such thing as an invalaid ascendent in natal astrolgoy .It only applys to hoary and the judgement of events.Early degrees in a natla chart simple mean you are just beggining a cycle of what that sign or house has to teach you.

The ruler of the ascendent its condition ie house and sign placment as well was what aspects it is making tells us I think more about the ascendent then the degrees on the ascendent.

Judi, another great link. I can see you are liveing up to your Scorpio ascendent as you seek real substance from your sources of knowledge.

Posted by: Chas on September 3, 2004 12:06 AM

I agree with you .
http://www.gugu.pl/ wyszukiwarka cenowa
http://www.agdrtv.com/, wow ale nie waw
http://www.agdrtv.com/notebooki/ , camisony nexoo
http://www.lg.agdrtv.com/ , który nie ten lienergee
http://www.toshiba.agdrtv.com/ laptop ale ktomenistecoon
http://www.sony.agdrtv.com/ , a gdzie nim
http://www.samsung.agdrtv.com/ , tam ale nie tu
http://www.siemens.agdrtv.com/ niemiecka marka lae takimotoe
http://www.panasonic.agdrtv.com/ , kiedy kolwiek
http://www.agdrtv.com/kamery_cyfrowe/ , sony whirlpool
http://www.gugu.pl/5/ wózki dziecięce
http://www.agdrtv.com/telewizory_lcd/ , telewizory plazmowe jvc
http://www.agdrtv.com/telewizory_plazmowe/ , hoover pralki
http://www.agdrtv.com/pralki/ , zmywarki promocje
http://www.agdrtv.com/lodowki/ , kuchnie amica
http://www.hp.agdrtv.com/ , a gdzie nim
http://www.eeeby.pl/ wyszukiwarka cenowa
http://www.camcoo.com/ lcd dvd i inne
http://www.gugu.pl/8/ dla dziecka foteliki
http://www.kancelaria.prawna.info/ oki doki mocki pocki
http://www.gugu.pl/5/ wózki dziecięce
http://www.acer.agdrtv.com/ acer notebooki
http://www.fujitsu-siemens.agdrtv.com/ sklep fujitsu siemens laptopy
http://www.gugu.pl/12/ łóżeczka dla dzieci
http://www.whirlpool.agdrtv.com/ pralki i piekarniki whirlpool
http://www.camcoo.net/ camcoo katalogo stonico


Posted by: łóżeczka on March 2, 2006 10:56 PM

I agree with you .
http://www.gugu.pl/ wyszukiwarka cenowa
http://www.agdrtv.com/, wow ale nie waw
http://www.agdrtv.com/notebooki/ , camisony nexoo
http://www.lg.agdrtv.com/ , który nie ten lienergee
http://www.toshiba.agdrtv.com/ laptop ale ktomenistecoon
http://www.sony.agdrtv.com/ , a gdzie nim
http://www.samsung.agdrtv.com/ , tam ale nie tu
http://www.siemens.agdrtv.com/ niemiecka marka lae takimotoe
http://www.panasonic.agdrtv.com/ , kiedy kolwiek
http://www.agdrtv.com/kamery_cyfrowe/ , sony whirlpool
http://www.gugu.pl/5/ wózki dziecięce
http://www.agdrtv.com/telewizory_lcd/ , telewizory plazmowe jvc
http://www.agdrtv.com/telewizory_plazmowe/ , hoover pralki
http://www.agdrtv.com/pralki/ , zmywarki promocje
http://www.agdrtv.com/lodowki/ , kuchnie amica
http://www.hp.agdrtv.com/ , a gdzie nim
http://www.eeeby.pl/ wyszukiwarka cenowa
http://www.camcoo.com/ lcd dvd i inne
http://www.gugu.pl/8/ dla dziecka foteliki
http://www.kancelaria.prawna.info/ oki doki mocki pocki
http://www.gugu.pl/5/ wózki dziecięce
http://www.acer.agdrtv.com/ acer notebooki
http://www.fujitsu-siemens.agdrtv.com/ sklep fujitsu siemens laptopy
http://www.gugu.pl/12/ łóżeczka dla dzieci
http://www.whirlpool.agdrtv.com/ pralki i piekarniki whirlpool
http://www.camcoo.net/ camcoo katalogo stonico


Posted by: łóżeczka on March 2, 2006 10:57 PM

I agree with you
http://www.founcorp.com laptop battery
http://www.founcorp.com/about.asp laptop battery
http://www.founcorp.com/acer-laptop-battery.asp acer-laptop-battery
http://www.founcorp.com/clevo-laptop-battery.asp clevo-laptop-battery
http://www.founcorp.com/compaq-laptop-battery.asp compaq-laptop-battery
http://www.founcorp.com/contact.asp laptop battery china
http://www.founcorp.com/dell-laptop-battery.asp dell-laptop-battery
http://www.founcorp.com/factory.asp laptop battery factory
http://www.founcorp.com/ibm-laptop-battery.asp ibm-laptop-battery
http://www.founcorp.com/index.asp laptop battery
http://www.founcorp.com/new.asp laptop battery
http://www.founcorp.com/produces2.asp laptop battery
http://www.founcorp.com/samsung-laptop-battery.asp samsung-laptop-battery
http://www.founcorp.com/sony-laptop-battery.asp sony-laptop-battery
http://www.founcorp.com/acer-laptop-battery/34A1.asp 34A1
http://www.founcorp.com/acer-laptop-battery/ACER BTP-650.asp ACER BTP-650
http://www.founcorp.com/acer-laptop-battery/BTP-39D1.asp BTP-39D1
http://www.founcorp.com/acer-laptop-battery/BTP-43D1.asp BTP-43D1
http://www.founcorp.com/acer-laptop-battery/BTP-44A3.asp BTP-44A3
http://www.founcorp.com/clevo-laptop-battery/87-D408S-495.asp 87-D408S-495
http://www.founcorp.com/compaq-laptop-battery/134110.asp 134110
http://www.founcorp.com/clevo-laptop-battery/M22BAT-8.asp M22BAT-8
http://www.founcorp.com/compaq-laptop-battery/196345-B21.asp 196345-B21
http://www.founcorp.com/compaq-laptop-battery/DG105A.asp DG105A
http://www.founcorp.com/compaq-laptop-battery/E500.asp E500
http://www.founcorp.com/compaq-laptop-battery/N400C.asp N400C
http://www.founcorp.com/compaq-laptop-battery/N600.asp N600
http://www.founcorp.com/css/toshiba-laptop-battery.asp toshiba-laptop-battery
http://www.founcorp.com/dell-laptop-battery/01X284.asp 01X284
http://www.founcorp.com/dell-laptop-battery/1194.asp 1194
http://www.founcorp.com/dell-laptop-battery/7T093.asp 7T093
http://www.founcorp.com/toshiba-laptop-battery/PA3285U.asp PA3285U
http://www.founcorp.com/toshiba-laptop-battery/PA3098U.asp PA3098U
http://www.founcorp.com/toshiba-laptop-battery/PA3009.asp PA3009
http://www.founcorp.com/toshiba-laptop-battery/PA2487UR.asp PA2487UR
http://www.founcorp.com/toshiba-laptop-battery/PA2451URN.asp PA2451URN
http://www.founcorp.com/sony-laptop-battery/BPZ52.asp BPZ52
http://www.founcorp.com/sony-laptop-battery/BPS3.asp BPS3
http://www.founcorp.com/sony-laptop-battery/BPs2.asp BPs2
http://www.founcorp.com/sony-laptop-battery/BPs1.asp BPs1
http://www.founcorp.com/sony-laptop-battery/BP71.asp BP71
http://www.founcorp.com/sony-laptop-battery/BP51p.asp BP51p
http://www.founcorp.com/sony-laptop-battery/BP51B.asp BP51B
http://www.founcorp.com/sony-laptop-battery/BP2v.asp BP2v
http://www.founcorp.com/sony-laptop-battery/BP2T.asp BP2T
http://www.founcorp.com/sony-laptop-battery/BP2S.asp BP2S
http://www.founcorp.com/sony-laptop-battery/BP2R.asp BP2R
http://www.founcorp.com/sony-laptop-battery/BP2N.asp BP2N
http://www.founcorp.com/sony-laptop-battery/BP2E.asp BP2E
http://www.founcorp.com/sansung-laptop-battery/P28-battery.asp P28-battery
http://www.founcorp.com/ibm-laptop-battery/92P1101.asp 92P1101
http://www.founcorp.com/ibm-laptop-battery/92P0999.asp 92P0999
http://www.founcorp.com/ibm-laptop-battery/92P0998.asp 92P0998
http://www.founcorp.com/ibm-laptop-battery/02K7072.asp 02K7072
http://www.founcorp.com/ibm-laptop-battery/02k7039.asp 02k7039
http://www.founcorp.com/ibm-laptop-battery/02K7018.asp 02K7018
http://www.founcorp.com/ibm-laptop-battery/02K6928.asp 02K6928
http://www.founcorp.com/ibm-laptop-battery/02K6793.asp 02K6793
http://www.founcorp.com/ibm-laptop-battery/02K6769.asp 02K6769
http://www.founcorp.com/ibm-laptop-battery/02k6651.asp 02k6651
http://www.founcorp.com/ibm-laptop-battery/02K6620.asp 02K6620
http://www.founcorp.com/ibm-laptop-battery/02K6614.asp 02K6614
http://www.founcorp.com/hp-laptop-battery/ZV5000.asp ZV5000
http://www.founcorp.com/hp-laptop-battery/ZD8000.asp ZD8000
http://www.founcorp.com/hp-laptop-battery/PM579A.asp PM579A
http://www.founcorp.com/hp-laptop-battery/PB994A.asp PB994A
http://www.founcorp.com/hp-laptop-battery/F4809A.asp F4809A
http://www.founcorp.com/hp-laptop-battery/F4486A.asp F4486A
http://www.founcorp.com/hp-laptop-battery/F2299A.asp F2299A
http://www.founcorp.com/hp-laptop-battery/F2024.asp F2024

Posted by: laptop battery on November 29, 2006 12:38 PM

http://com-steam.com/bang-bros-network/ *bang bros network* | http://com-steam.com/spring-break-spy-cam/ *spring break spy cam* | http://com-steam.com/bigbangtheory/ *bigbangtheory* | http://com-steam.com/bangmilf/ *bangmilf* | http://com-steam.com/my-bang/ *my bang* | http://com-steam.com/oxpass/ *oxpass* | http://com-steam.com/tugjobs/ *tugjobs* | http://com-steam.com/mrcameltoe/ *mrcameltoe* | http://com-steam.com/bob/ *bob* | http://com-steam.com/ass-parade/ *ass parade* | http://com-steam.com/ballhoneys/ *ballhoneys* | http://com-steam.com/bangthumbs/ *bangthumbs* | http://com-steam.com/monsters-of-cock/ *monsters of cock* | http://com-steam.com/milf-lessons/ *milf lessons* | http://com-steam.com/bangbrosnetwork/ *bangbrosnetwork* | http://com-steam.com/ox-passport/ *ox passport* | http://com-steam.com/matureanaladventure/ *matureanaladventure* | http://com-steam.com/springbreakspycam/ *springbreakspycam* | http://com-steam.com/bang-bang-bang/ *bang bang bang* | http://com-steam.com/big-bang-theory/ *big bang theory* | http://com-steam.com/bigmouthfuls/ *bigmouthfuls* | http://com-steam.com/ban/ *ban* | http://com-steam.com/bang-olufsen/ *bang olufsen* | http://com-steam.com/bang-bang/ *bang bang* | http://com-steam.com/bang-bros/ *bang bros* | http://com-steam.com/banging/ *banging* | http://com-steam.com/bangbros/ *bangbros* | http://com-steam.com/the-bang/ *the bang* | http://com-steam.com/oxpassport/ *oxpassport* | http://com-steam.com/the-big-bang-theory/ *the big bang theory* | http://com-steam.com/big-bang/ *big bang* | http://com-steam.com/bang-thumbs/ *bang thumbs* | http://com-steam.com/banging/ *banging* | http://com-steam.com/big-mouthfuls/ *big mouthfuls* | http://com-steam.com/anal-adventure/ *anal adventure* | http://com-steam.com/bigassadventure/ *bigassadventure* | http://com-steam.com/bob/ *bob* | http://com-steam.com/bangsites/ *bangsites* | http://com-steam.com/bang-bros-world-wide/ *bang bros world wide* | http://com-steam.com/bigtitsroundasses/ *bigtitsroundasses* | http://com-steam.com/bangbangbang/ *bangbangbang* | http://com-steam.com/mature-anal-adventure/ *mature anal adventure* | http://com-steam.com/analadventure/ *analadventure* | http://com-steam.com/ball-honeys/ *ball honeys* | http://com-steam.com/bangbrosworldwide/ *bangbrosworldwide* | http://com-steam.com/bangbang/ *bangbang* | http://com-steam.com/mybang/ *mybang* | http://com-steam.com/grannyanaladventure/ *grannyanaladventure* | http://com-steam.com/moms-anal-adventure/ *moms anal adventure* | http://com-steam.com/bang-sites/ *bang sites* | http://com-steam.com/bang-a/ *bang a* | http://com-steam.com/big-tits-round-asses/ *big tits round asses* | http://com-steam.com/assparade/ *assparade* | http://com-steam.com/tug-jobs/ *tug jobs* | http://com-steam.com/farthammer/ *farthammer* | http://com-steam.com/banggirls/ *banggirls* | http://com-steam.com/mr-cameltoe/ *mr cameltoe* | http://com-steam.com/granny-anal-adventure/ *granny anal adventure* | http://com-steam.com/big-ass-adventure/ *big ass adventure* | http://com-steam.com/monstersofcock/ *monstersofcock* | http://com-steam.com/ban/ *ban* | http://com-steam.com/milflessons/ *milflessons* | http://com-steam.com/bigbang/ *bigbang* | http://com-steam.com/bang-girls/ *bang girls* | http://com-steam.com/bangolufsen/ *bangolufsen* | http://com-steam.com/ox-pass/ *ox pass* | http://com-steam.com/thebang/ *thebang* | http://com-steam.com/yourbang/ *yourbang* | http://com-steam.com/bang-milf/ *bang milf* | http://com-steam.com/banga/ *banga* | http://com-steam.com/momsanaladventure/ *momsanaladventure* | http://com-steam.com/taylorbow/ *taylorbow* | http://com-steam.com/fart-hammer/ *fart hammer* | http://com-steam.com/thebigbangtheory/ *thebigbangtheory* | http://com-steam.com/taylor-bow/ *taylor bow* | http://com-steam.com/your-bang/ *your bang*
===
http://ipassplus.com/aluckystranger/ *ALuckyStranger* | http://ipassplus.com/leakingliquids/ *LeakingLiquids* | http://ipassplus.com/blackattackgangbang/ *blackattackgangbang* | http://ipassplus.com/seriousanal/ *SeriousAnal* | http://ipassplus.com/kungpaopussy/ *KungPaoPussy* | http://ipassplus.com/teenslam/ *teenslam* | http://ipassplus.com/justcreampie/ *JustCreampie* | http://ipassplus.com/pussyfootgirlsTour/ *PussyFootGirlsTour* | http://ipassplus.com/blackmotherfuckers/ *BlackMotherFuckers* | http://ipassplus.com/alteredassholes/ *alteredassholes* | http://ipassplus.com/seriouswhores/ *SeriousWhores* | http://ipassplus.com/frankwank/ *frankwank* | http://ipassplus.com/thugsandjuggs/ *ThugsAndJuggs* | http://ipassplus.com/titjobmodels/ *TitjobModels* | http://ipassplus.com/pervertparadise/ *pervertparadise* | http://ipassplus.com/gagonmycock/ *GagOnMyCock* | http://ipassplus.com/phatbootyhoes/ *PhatBootyHoes* | http://ipassplus.com/anallickfest/ *anallickfest* | http://ipassplus.com/martinawarren/ *MartinaWarren* | http://ipassplus.com/seriousblowjobs/ *SeriousBlowjobs* | http://ipassplus.com/realarizonaamateurs/ *RealArizonaAmateurs* | http://ipassplus.com/gaggingwhores/ *gaggingwhores* | http://ipassplus.com/nutinhermouth/ *nutinhermouth* | http://ipassplus.com/daddysfriend/ *DaddysFriend* | http://ipassplus.com/cocklovingmoms/ *CockLovingMoms* | http://ipassplus.com/handjobmodels/ *HandjobModels* | http://ipassplus.com/whorgies/ *whorgies* | http://ipassplus.com/blackdickslatinchicks/ *BlackDicksLatinChicks* | http://ipassplus.com/18interracial/ *18Interracial* | http://ipassplus.com/nutsonsluts/ *nutsonsluts* | http://ipassplus.com/doublediper/ *doublediper* | http://ipassplus.com/teenpovfacials/ *TeenPovFacials* | http://ipassplus.com/creamedcornholes/ *creamedcornholes* | http://ipassplus.com/blackaddiction/ *blackaddiction* | http://ipassplus.com/midnightprowl/ *midnightprowl* | http://ipassplus.com/creamfilledbabes/ *creamfilledbabes* | http://ipassplus.com/gagschool/ *GagSchool* | http://ipassplus.com/chixnthemix/ *chixnthemix* | http://ipassplus.com/penispalooza/ *PenisPalooza* | http://ipassplus.com/facialcumtargets/ *facialcumtargets* | http://ipassplus.com/phatwhitebooty/ *PhatWhiteBooty* | http://ipassplus.com/analcumjunkies/ *analcumjunkies* | http://ipassplus.com/meatmembers/ *meatmembers* | http://ipassplus.com/anarchyarchives/ *anarchyarchives* | http://ipassplus.com/teaseitout/ *teaseitout* | http://ipassplus.com/bigblackpimp/ *BigBlackPimp* | http://ipassplus.com/pimpjuicexxx/ *pimpjuicexxx* | http://ipassplus.com/myasianmassage/ *MyAsianMassage* | http://ipassplus.com/tightbuttholes/ *TightButtholes* | http://ipassplus.com/kristinawood/ *KristinaWood* | http://ipassplus.com/angelslut/ *AngelSlut* | http://ipassplus.com/jerkmenow/ *JerkMeNow* | http://ipassplus.com/pornmultipass/ *PornMultiPass* | http://ipassplus.com/fingertillcum/ *FingerTillCum* | http://ipassplus.com/whitemeatonblackstreet/ *whitemeatonblackstreet* | http://ipassplus.com/allnetworkpass/ *AllNetworkPass* | http://ipassplus.com/seriousteen/ *SeriousTeen* | http://ipassplus.com/oralcumqueens/ *oralcumqueens* | http://ipassplus.com/meatholes/ *meatholes* | http://ipassplus.com/cumfarters/ *cumfarters* | http://ipassplus.com/ass2mouthsluts/ *ass2mouthsluts* | http://ipassplus.com/poVpervert/ *poVpervert* | http://ipassplus.com/mywifesfriends/ *mywifesfriends* | http://ipassplus.com/handjobspectacles/ *HandjobSpectacles* | http://ipassplus.com/whorewagon/ *WhoreWagon* | http:/// ** | http://ipassplus.com/jizzonglasses/ *JizzOnGlasses* | http://ipassplus.com/pussyfootgirls/ *PussyFootGirls* | http://ipassplus.com/sexcamclub/ *SexCamClub* | http://ipassplus.com/boygirlbang/ *BoyGirlBang* | http://ipassplus.com/whiteslavewhores/ *WhiteSlaveWhores* | http://ipassplus.com/hellfiresex/ *hellfiresex* | http://ipassplus.com/youngripeandready/ *youngripeandready* | http://ipassplus.com/brazilbang/ *BrazilBang* | http://ipassplus.com/footjobfootjob/ *FootJobFootjob* | http://ipassplus.com/ghettohoochies/ *GhettoHoochies* | http://ipassplus.com/footjobmodels/ *FootJobModels* | http://ipassplus.com/bubblebuttorgy/ *BubbleButtOrgy* | http://ipassplus.com/poVcastingcouch/ *poVcastingcouch* | http://ipassplus.com/droolmyload/ *droolmyload* | http://ipassplus.com/myfirstpornscene/ *MyFirstPornScene* | http://ipassplus.com/serioushardcore/ *SeriousHardcore* | http://ipassplus.com/teenievideo/ *TeenieVideo* | http://ipassplus.com/seriousasians/ *SeriousAsians* | http://ipassplus.com/argentinalove/ *ArgentinaLove* | http://ipassplus.com/topnotchbitches/ *topnotchbitches* | http://ipassplus.com/nocumdodgingallowed/ *nocumdodgingallowed* | http://ipassplus.com/pornjackass/ *pornjackass* | http://ipassplus.com/pussypinata/ *PussyPinata* | http://ipassplus.com/banzaisluts/ *banzaisluts* | http://ipassplus.com/lookatmebitch/ *LookAtMeBitch* | http://ipassplus.com/blowjobquickies/ *blowjobquickies* | http://ipassplus.com/creampiemodels/ *CreampieModels* | http://ipassplus.com/knobsquad/ *KnobSquad* | http://ipassplus.com/cockbrutality/ *cockbrutality* | http://ipassplus.com/cumfilledmouths/ *cumfilledmouths* | http://ipassplus.com/realmilfgangbang/ *realmilfgangbang* | http:/// **
===
http://o-real.com/americandaydreams/ *americandaydreams* | http://o-real.com/strokejobs/ *strokejobs* | http://o-real.com/bustyadventures/ *bustyadventures* | http://o-real.com/athensgirls/ *athensgirls* | http://o-real.com/fistinglessons/ *fistinglessons* | http://o-real.com/filthyfuckingcoeds/ *filthyfuckingcoeds* | http://o-real.com/clubhardball/ *clubhardball* | http://o-real.com/dirtyoldman/ *dirtyoldman* | http://o-real.com/naughtyamerica/ *naughtyamerica* | http://o-real.com/maxhardcoreporn/ *max,hardcore,porn* | http://o-real.com/peelover/ *peelover* | http://o-real.com/qmov/ *qmov* | http://o-real.com/latinadultery/ *latinadultery* | http://o-real.com/spermwap/ *spermwap* | http://o-real.com/myfirstsexteacher/ *myfirstsexteacher* | http://o-real.com/socalcoeds/ *socalcoeds* | http://o-real.com/naughtyamericamobile/ *naughtyamericamobile* | http://o-real.com/myfriendshotmom/ *myfriendshotmom* | http://o-real.com/jakebustsnuts/ *jakebustsnuts* | http://o-real.com/angelsofporn/ *angelsofporn* | http://o-real.com/sweetauditions/ *sweetauditions* | http://o-real.com/intermixed/ *intermixed* | http://o-real.com/surferdefense/ *surferdefense* | http://o-real.com/itsjustchocolate/ *itsjustchocolate* | http://o-real.com/allinternal/ *allinternal* | http://o-real.com/spermswap/ *spermswap* | http://o-real.com/abbraxaporn/ *abbraxaporn* | http://o-real.com/thedirtyoldman/ *thedirtyoldman* | http://o-real.com/asstraffic/ *asstraffic* | http://o-real.com/naughtyoffice/ *naughtyoffice* | http://o-real.com/dirtylatinamaids/ *dirtylatinamaids* | http://o-real.com/bookwormbitches/ *bookwormbitches* | http://o-real.com/fasttimesatnau/ *fasttimesatnau* | http://o-real.com/sadoslaves/ *sadoslaves* | http://o-real.com/sweetloads/ *sweetloads* | http://o-real.com/mysistershotfriend/ *mysistershotfriend* | http://o-real.com/buttcam/ *buttcam* | http://o-real.com/sweetmembers/ *sweetmembers* | http://o-real.com/frenchpee/ *frenchpee* | http://o-real.com/misspain/ *misspain* | http://o-real.com/givemepink/ *givemepink* | http://o-real.com/perfectgonzo/ *perfectgonzo*
====
http://pass-real.com/analadventure/ *analadventure* | http://pass-real.com/bangbangbang/ *bangbangbang* | http://pass-real.com/matureanaladventure/ *matureanaladventure* | http://pass-real.com/bangsites/ *bangsites* | http://pass-real.com/assparade/ *assparade* | http://pass-real.com/bob/ *bob* | http://pass-real.com/mybang/ *mybang* | http://pass-real.com/bigassadventure/ *bigassadventure* | http://pass-real.com/farthammer/ *farthammer* | http://pass-real.com/mrcameltoe/ *mrcameltoe* | http://pass-real.com/bigmouthfuls/ *bigmouthfuls* | http://pass-real.com/ban/ *ban* | http://pass-real.com/yourbang/ *yourbang* | http://pass-real.com/bangbrosworldwide/ *bangbrosworldwide* | http://pass-real.com/springbreakspycam/ *springbreakspycam* | http://pass-real.com/bang-bros/ *bang bros online* | http://pass-real.com/bangolufsen/ *bangolufsen* | http://pass-real.com/bangbrosnetwork/ *bangbrosnetwork* | http://pass-real.com/taylorbow/ *taylorbow* | http://pass-real.com/banging/ *banging* | http://pass-real.com/tugjobs/ *tugjobs* | http://pass-real.com/bang-bros/ *bang bros network* | http://pass-real.com/ballhoneys/ *ballhoneys* | http://pass-real.com/bangmilf/ *bangmilf* | http://pass-real.com/banga/ *banga* | http://pass-real.com/grannyanaladventure/ *grannyanaladventure* | http://pass-real.com/bangthumbs/ *bangthumbs* | http://pass-real.com/bigbangtheory/ *bigbangtheory* | http://pass-real.com/bigtitsroundasses/ *bigtitsroundasses* | http://pass-real.com/monstersofcock/ *monstersofcock* | http://pass-real.com/thebigbangtheory/ *thebigbangtheory* | http://pass-real.com/bang-bros/ *bang bros* | http://pass-real.com/thebang/ *thebang* | http://pass-real.com/banggirls/ *banggirls* | http://pass-real.com/milflessons/ *milflessons* | http://pass-real.com/oxpassport/ *oxpassport* | http://pass-real.com/oxpass/ *oxpass* | http://pass-real.com/bigbang/ *bigbang* | http://pass-real.com/bangbang/ *bangbang* | http://pass-real.com/bangbros/ *bangbros* | http://pass-real.com/momsanaladventure/ *momsanaladventure*
====
http://ovmed.info/q-mov.php3 *qmov* | http://ovmed.info/sweetloads.php3 *sweetloads* | http://ovmed.info/sweet-auditions.php3 *sweet auditions* | http://ovmed.info/bustyadventures.php3 *bustyadventures* | http://ovmed.info/bang-bros.php3 *BANG BROS* | http://ovmed.info/abbraxaporn.php3 *abbraxaporn* | http://ovmed.info/bangbros.php3 *bangbros* | http://ovmed.info/strokejobs.php3 *strokejobs* | http://ovmed.info/sweet-members.php3 *sweet members* | http://ovmed.info/book-worm-bitches.php3 *book worm bitches* | http://ovmed.info/naughtyamerica.php3 *naughtyamerica* | http://ovmed.info/naughtyoffice.php3 *naughtyoffice* | http://ovmed.info/club-hardball.php3 *club hardball* | http://ovmed.info/pee-lover.php3 *pee lover* | http://ovmed.info/max-hardcore-porn.php3 *max hardcore porn* | http://ovmed.info/jakebustsnuts.php3 *jakebustsnuts* | http://ovmed.info/sweetmembers.php3 *sweetmembers* | http://ovmed.info/buttcam.php3 *buttcam* | http://ovmed.info/bangthumbs.php3 *bangthumbs* | http://ovmed.info/all-internal.php3 *allinternal* | http://ovmed.info/jennaxxx.php3 *jennaxxx* | http://ovmed.info/its-just-chocolate.php3 *its just chocolate* | http://ovmed.info/sadoslaves.php3 *sadoslaves* | http://ovmed.info/dirtylatinamaids.php3 *dirtylatinamaids* | http://ovmed.info/barelylegal.php3 *barelylegal* | http://ovmed.info/americandaydreams.php3 *americandaydreams* | http://ovmed.info/intermixed.php3 *intermixed* | http://ovmed.info/athensgirls.php3 *athensgirls* | http://ovmed.info/filthyfuckingcoeds.php3 *filthyfuckingcoeds* | http://ovmed.info/surferdefense.php3 *surferdefense* | http://ovmed.info/inter-mixed.php3 *inter mixed* | http://ovmed.info/abbraxa-porn.php3 *abbraxa porn* | http://ovmed.info/momsanaladventure.php3 *momsanaladventure* | http://ovmed.info/bangbrosworldwide.php3 *bangbrosworldwide* | http://ovmed.info/latinadultery.php3 *latinadultery* | http://ovmed.info/sweetauditions.php3 *sweetauditions* | http://ovmed.info/thedirtyoldman.php3 *thedirtyoldman* | http://ovmed.info/blacksonblondes.php3 *blacksonblondes* | http://ovmed.info/bookwormbitches.php3 *bookwormbitches* | http://ovmed.info/bigmouthfuls.php3 *bigmouthfuls* | http://ovmed.info/legworld.php3 *legworld* | http://ovmed.info/monstersofcock.php3 *monstersofcock* | http://ovmed.info/sweet-loads.php3 *sweet loads* | http://ovmed.info/dirty-old-man.php3 *dirty old man* | http://ovmed.info/ass-traffic.php3 *asstraffic* | http://ovmed.info/naughty-america-mobile.php3 *naughty america mobile* | http://ovmed.info/misspain.php3 *misspain* | http://ovmed.info/miss-pain.php3 *miss pain* | http://ovmed.info/filthy-fucking-coeds.php3 *filthy fucking coeds* | http://ovmed.info/surfer-defense.php3 *surfer defense* | http://ovmed.info/asstraffic.php3 *asstraffic* | http://ovmed.info/tawneestone.php3 *tawneestone* | http://ovmed.info/allinternal.php3 *allinternal* | http://ovmed.info/naughtyamericamobile.php3 *naughtyamericamobile* | http://ovmed.info/dirtyoldman.php3 *dirtyoldman* | http://ovmed.info/maxhardcoreporn.php3 *max,hardcore,porn* | http://ovmed.info/assparade.php3 *assparade* | http://ovmed.info/socalcoeds.php3 *socalcoeds* | http://ovmed.info/tugjobs.php3 *tugjobs* | http://ovmed.info/springbreakspycam.php3 *springbreakspycam* | http://ovmed.info/sado-slaves.php3 *sado slaves* | http://ovmed.info/gloryhole.php3 *gloryhole* | http://ovmed.info/ox-passport.php3 *ox passport* | http://ovmed.info/naughty-office.php3 *naughty office* | http://ovmed.info/the-dirty-old-man.php3 *the dirty old man* | http://ovmed.info/fisting-lessons.php3 *fisting lessons* | http://ovmed.info/bangbros.php3 *BANGBROS* | http://ovmed.info/stroke-jobs.php3 *stroke jobs* | http://ovmed.info/my-sisters-hot-friend.php3 *my sisters hot friend* | http://ovmed.info/american-day-dreams.php3 *american day dreams* | http://ovmed.info/busty-adventures.php3 *busty adventures* | http://ovmed.info/mysistershotfriend.php3 *mysistershotfriend* | http://ovmed.info/peelover.php3 *peelover* | http://ovmed.info/oxpass.php3 *oxpass* | http://ovmed.info/clubhardball.php3 *clubhardball* | http://ovmed.info/itsjustchocolate.php3 *itsjustchocolate* | http://ovmed.info/naughty-america.php3 *naughty america* | http://ovmed.info/dirty-latina-maids.php3 *dirty latina maids* | http://ovmed.info/butt-cam.php3 *butt cam* | http://ovmed.info/oxpassport.php3 *oxpassport* | http://ovmed.info/fast-times-at-nau.php3 *fast times at nau* | http://ovmed.info/fistinglessons.php3 *fistinglessons* | http://ovmed.info/jordancapri.php3 *jordancapri* | http://ovmed.info/qmov.php3 *qmov* | http://ovmed.info/latin-adultery.php3 *latin adultery* | http://ovmed.info/french-pee.php3 *french pee* | http://ovmed.info/blacksonbitches.php3 *blacksonbitches* | http://ovmed.info/bigtitsroundasses.php3 *bigtitsroundasses* | http://ovmed.info/socal-coeds.php3 *socal coeds* | http://ovmed.info/frenchpee.php3 *frenchpee* | http://ovmed.info/my-friends-hot-mom.php3 *my friends hot mom* | http://ovmed.info/athens-girls.php3 *athens girls* | http://ovmed.info/myfirstsexteacher.php3 *myfirstsexteacher* | http://ovmed.info/angelsofporn.php3 *angelsofporn* | http://ovmed.info/myfriendshotmom.php3 *myfriendshotmom* | http://ovmed.info/fasttimesatnau.php3 *fast timesatnau* | http://ovmed.info/my-first-sex-teacher.php3 *my first sex teacher* | http://ovmed.info/angels-of-porn.php3 *angels of porn* | http://ovmed.info/farthammer.php3 *farthammer* | http://ovmed.info/bang-bros.php3 *bang bros* | http://ovmed.info/jake-busts-nuts.php3 *jake busts nuts*
====
http://milfat.info/alteredassholes.html *alteredassholes* | http://milfat.info/tightbuttholes.html *TightButtholes* | http://milfat.info/cocklovingmoms.html *CockLovingMoms* | http://milfat.info/realmilfgangbang.html *realmilfgangbang* | http://milfat.info/blowjobquickies.html *blowjobquickies* | http://milfat.info/fingertillcum.html *FingerTillCum* | http://milfat.info/footjobmodels.html *FootJobModels* | http://milfat.info/footjobfootjob.html *FootJobFootjob* | http://milfat.info/droolmyload.html *droolmyload* | http://milfat.info/poVcastingcouch.html *poVcastingcouch* | http://milfat.info/gaggingwhores.html *gaggingwhores* | http://milfat.info/analcumjunkies.html *analcumjunkies* | http://milfat.info/whitemeatonblackstreet.html *whitemeatonblackstreet* | http://milfat.info/cumfarters.html *cumfarters* | http://milfat.info/poVpervert.html *poVpervert* | http://milfat.info/bigblackpimp.html *BigBlackPimp* | http://milfat.info/gagonmycock.html *GagOnMyCock* | http://milfat.info/jizzonglasses.html *JizzOnGlasses* | http://milfat.info/blackattackgangbang.html *blackattackgangbang* | http://milfat.info/phatbootyhoes.html *PhatBootyHoes* | http://milfat.info/serioushardcore.html *SeriousHardcore* | http://milfat.info/martinawarren.html *MartinaWarren* | http://milfat.info/handjobspectacles.html *HandjobSpectacles* | http://milfat.info/anallickfest.html *anallickfest* | http://milfat.info/cockbrutality.html *cockbrutality* | http://milfat.info/pornjackass.html *pornjackass* | http://milfat.info/blackdickslatinchicks.html *BlackDicksLatinChicks* | http://milfat.info/pussyfootgirlsTour.html *PussyFootGirlsTour* | http://milfat.info/banzaisluts.html *banzaisluts* | http://milfat.info/myasianmassage.html *MyAsianMassage* | http://milfat.info/mywifesfriends.html *mywifesfriends* | http://milfat.info/creamfilledbabes.html *creamfilledbabes* | http://milfat.info/seriousteen.html *SeriousTeen* | http://milfat.info/pervertparadise.html *pervertparadise* | http://milfat.info/leakingliquids.html *LeakingLiquids* | http://milfat.info/thugsandjuggs.html *ThugsAndJuggs* | http://milfat.info/myfirstpornscene.html *MyFirstPornScene* | http://milfat.info/topnotchbitches.html *topnotchbitches* | http://milfat.info/seriousasians.html *SeriousAsians* | http://milfat.info/pussypinata.html *PussyPinata* | http://milfat.info/sexcamclub.html *SexCamClub* | http://milfat.info/nocumdodgingallowed.html *nocumdodgingallowed* | http://milfat.info/anarchyarchives.html *anarchyarchives* | http://milfat.info/seriouswhores.html *SeriousWhores* | http://milfat.info/allnetworkpass.html *AllNetworkPass* | http://milfat.info/pornmultipass.html *PornMultiPass* | http://milfat.info/ghettohoochies.html *GhettoHoochies* | http://milfat.info/creampiemodels.html *CreampieModels* | http://milfat.info/midnightprowl.html *midnightprowl* | http://milfat.info/handjobmodels.html *HandjobModels* | http://milfat.info/brazilbang.html *BrazilBang* | http://milfat.info/pussyfootgirls.html *PussyFootGirls* | http://milfat.info/18interracial.html *18Interracial* | http://milfat.info/facialcumtargets.html *facialcumtargets* | http://milfat.info/nutinhermouth.html *nutinhermouth* | http://milfat.info/phatwhitebooty.html *PhatWhiteBooty* | http://milfat.info/penispalooza.html *PenisPalooza* | http://milfat.info/teaseitout.html *teaseitout* | http://milfat.info/frankwank.html *frankwank* | http://milfat.info/doublediper.html *doublediper* | http://milfat.info/jerkmenow.html *JerkMeNow* | http://milfat.info/chixnthemix.html *chixnthemix* | http://milfat.info/lookatmebitch.html *LookAtMeBitch* | http://milfat.info/ass2mouthsluts.html *ass2mouthsluts* | http://milfat.info/titjobmodels.html *TitjobModels* | http://milfat.info/justcreampie.html *JustCreampie* | http://milfat.info/argentinalove.html *ArgentinaLove* | http://milfat.info/boygirlbang.html *BoyGirlBang* | http://milfat.info/seriousanal.html *SeriousAnal* | http://milfat.info/meatmembers.html *meatmembers* | http://milfat.info/kristinawood.html *KristinaWood* | http://milfat.info/whorgies.html *whorgies* | http://milfat.info/gagschool.html *GagSchool* | http://milfat.info/creamedcornholes.html *creamedcornholes* | http://milfat.info/blackmotherfuckers.html *BlackMotherFuckers* | http://milfat.info/seriousblowjobs.html *SeriousBlowjobs* | http://milfat.info/realarizonaamateurs.html *RealArizonaAmateurs* | http://milfat.info/bubblebuttorgy.html *BubbleButtOrgy* | http://milfat.info/oralcumqueens.html *oralcumqueens* | http://milfat.info/youngripeandready.html *youngripeandready* | http://milfat.info/nutsonsluts.html *nutsonsluts* | http://milfat.info/blackaddiction.html *blackaddiction* | http://milfat.info/aluckystranger.html *ALuckyStranger* | http://milfat.info/whorewagon.html *WhoreWagon* | http://milfat.info/knobsquad.html *KnobSquad* | http://milfat.info/hellfiresex.html *hellfiresex* | http://milfat.info/meatholes.html *meatholes* | http://milfat.info/teenpovfacials.html *TeenPovFacials* | http://milfat.info/cumfilledmouths.html *cumfilledmouths* | http://milfat.info/whiteslavewhores.html *WhiteSlaveWhores* | http://milfat.info/daddysfriend.html *DaddysFriend* | http://milfat.info/pimpjuicexxx.html *pimpjuicexxx* | http://milfat.info/teenslam.html *teenslam* | http://milfat.info/teenievideo.html *TeenieVideo* | http://milfat.info/kungpaopussy.html *KungPaoPussy* | http://milfat.info/angelslut.html *AngelSlut*
====
http://oxpassport.jrfe.com/ *OxPassport* | http://bigmouthfuls.jrfe.com/ *bigmouthfuls* | http://bangthumbs.jrfe.com/ *bangthumbs* | http://bigtitsroundasses.jrfe.com/ *bigtitsroundasses* | http://tugjobs.jrfe.com/ *tugjobs* | http://clubhardball.jrfe.com/ *clubhardball* | http://tawneestone.jrfe.com/ *tawneestone* | http://farthammer.jrfe.com/ *farthammer* | http://asstraffic.jrfe.com/ *asstraffic* | http://springbreakspycam.jrfe.com/ *springbreakspycam* | http://momsanaladventure.jrfe.com/ *momsanaladventure* | http://oxpass.jrfe.com/ *oxpass* | http://milflessons.jrfe.com/ *MilfLessons* | http://assparade.jrfe.com/ *assparade* | http://bangbrosworldwide.jrfe.com/ *bangbrosworldwide* | http://monstersofcock.jrfe.com/ *monstersofcock* | http://bustyadventures.jrfe.com/ *bustyadventures* | http://legworld.jrfe.com/ *legworld* | http://jordancapri.jrfe.com/ *jordancapri* | http://bangbros.jrfe.com/ *bangbros* | http://gloryhole.jrfe.com/ *gloryhole* | http://blacksonblondes.jrfe.com/ *blacksonblondes* | http://jennaxxx.jrfe.com/ *jennaxxx* | http://barelylegal.jrfe.com/ *barelylegal* | http://allinternal.jrfe.com/ *allinternal* | http://qmov.jrfe.com/ *qmov* | http://oxpassport.jrfe.com/ *oxpassport* | http://blacksonbitches.jrfe.com/ *blacksonbitches* | http://taylorbow.jrfe.comx/ *BallHoneys* | http://taylorbow.jrfe.com/ *Taylor Bow* | http://strokejobs.jrfe.com/ *strokejobs*
===
http://clublivevideo.com/blacks-on-blondes/ *blacks on blondes* | http://clublivevideo.com/barely-legal/ *barely legal* | http://clublivevideo.com/bang-bros-world-wide/ *bang bros world wide* | http://clublivevideo.com/ass-traffic/ *ass traffic* | http://clublivevideo.com/sweet-auditions/ *sweet auditions* | http://clublivevideo.com/ball-honeys/ *Ball Honeys* | http://clublivevideo.com/leg-world/ *leg world* | http://clublivevideo.com/latin-adultery/ *latin adultery* | http://clublivevideo.com/blacks-on-bitches/ *blacks on bitches* | http://clublivevideo.com/abbraxa-porn/ *abbraxa porn* | http://clublivevideo.com/jake-busts-nuts/ *jake busts nuts* | http://clublivevideo.com/bang-bros/ *bang bros* | http://clublivevideo.com/inter-mixed/ *inter mixed* | http://clublivevideo.com/ox-passport/ *ox passport* | http://clublivevideo.com/pee-lover/ *pee lover* | http://clublivevideo.com/my-friends-hot-mom/ *my friends hot mom* | http://clublivevideo.com/sweet-members/ *sweet members* | http://clublivevideo.com/naughty-america/ *naughty america* | http://clublivevideo.com/all-internal/ *all internal* | http://clublivevideo.com/glory-hole/ *glory hole* | http://clublivevideo.com/its-just-chocolate/ *its just chocolate* | http://clublivevideo.com/big-tits-round-asses/ *big tits round asses* | http://clublivevideo.com/monsters-of-cock/ *monsters of cock* | http://clublivevideo.com/miss-pain/ *miss pain* | http://clublivevideo.com/stroke-jobs/ *stroke jobs* | http://clublivevideo.com/fast-times-at-nau/ *fast times at nau* | http://clublivevideo.com/busty-adventures/ *busty adventures* | http://clublivevideo.com/dirty-old-man/ *dirty old man* | http://clublivevideo.com/moms-anal-adventure/ *moms anal adventure* | http://clublivevideo.com/jordan-capri/ *jordan capri* | http://clublivevideo.com/bang-thumbs/ *bang thumbs* | http://clublivevideo.com/the-dirty-old-man/ *the dirty old man* | http://clublivevideo.com/ox-pass/ *ox pass* | http://clublivevideo.com/spring-break-spy-cam/ *spring break spy cam* | http://clublivevideo.com/socal-coeds/ *socal coeds* | http://clublivevideo.com/naughty-office/ *naughty office* | http://clublivevideo.com/fart-hammer/ *farthammer* | http://clublivevideo.com/club-hardball/ *club hardball* | http://clublivevideo.com/ox-passport/ *Ox Passport* | http://clublivevideo.com/tawnee-stone/ *tawnee stone* | http://clublivevideo.com/fisting-lessons/ *fisting lessons* | http://clublivevideo.com/french-pee/ *french pee* | http://clublivevideo.com/max-hardcore-porn/ *max hardcore porn* | http://clublivevideo.com/my-first-sex-teacher/ *my first sex teacher* | http://clublivevideo.com/tug-jobs/ *tug jobs* | http://clublivevideo.com/american-day-dreams/ *american day dreams* | http://clublivevideo.com/dirty-latina-maids/ *dirty latina maids* | http://clublivevideo.com/jenna-xxx/ *jenna xxx* | http://clublivevideo.com/book-worm-bitches/ *book worm bitches* | http://clublivevideo.com/ass-parade/ *ass parade* | http://clublivevideo.com/sados-laves/ *sados laves* | http://clublivevideo.com/filthy-fucking-coeds/ *filthy fucking coeds* | http://clublivevideo.com/my-sisters-hot-friend/ *my sisters hot friend* | http://clublivevideo.com/big-mouthfuls/ *big mouthfuls* | http://clublivevideo.com/milf-lessons/ *Milf Lessons* | http://clublivevideo.com/surfer-defense/ *surfer defense* | http://clublivevideo.com/q-mov/ *q mov* | http://clublivevideo.com/athens-girls/ *athens girls* | http://clublivevideo.com/sweet-loads/ *sweet loads* | http://clublivevideo.com/butt-cam/ *butt cam* | http://clublivevideo.com/naughty-america-mobile/ *naughty america mobile* | http://clublivevideo.com/angels-of-porn/ *angels of porn* | http://clublivevideo.com/taylor-bow/ *Taylor Bow*
====
http://bisexual4u.net/americandaydreams/ *americandaydreams* | http://bisexual4u.net/sweetloads/ *sweetloads* | http://bisexual4u.net/myfirstsexteacher/ *myfirstsexteacher* | http://bisexual4u.net/sweetmembers/ *sweetmembers* | http://bisexual4u.net/abbraxaporn/ *abbraxaporn* | http://bisexual4u.net/frenchpee/ *frenchpee* | http://bisexual4u.net/surferdefense/ *surferdefense* | http://bisexual4u.net/bustyadventures/ *bustyadventures* | http://bisexual4u.net/fistinglessons/ *fistinglessons* | http://bisexual4u.net/socalcoeds/ *socalcoeds* | http://bisexual4u.net/clubhardball/ *clubhardball* | http://bisexual4u.net/naughtyamericamobile/ *naughtyamericamobile* | http://bisexual4u.net/asstraffic/ *asstraffic* | http://bisexual4u.net/angelsofporn/ *angelsofporn* | http://bisexual4u.net/filthyfuckingcoeds/ *filthyfuckingcoeds* | http://bisexual4u.net/latinadultery/ *latinadultery* | http://bisexual4u.net/spermswap/ *spermswap* | http://bisexual4u.net/maxhardcoreporn/ *max,hardcore,porn* | http://bisexual4u.net/allinternal/ *allinternal* | http://bisexual4u.net/naughtyoffice/ *naughtyoffice* | http://bisexual4u.net/athensgirls/ *athensgirls* | http://bisexual4u.net/strokejobs/ *strokejobs* | http://bisexual4u.net/thedirtyoldman/ *thedirtyoldman* | http://bisexual4u.net/perfectgonzo/ *perfectgonzo* | http://bisexual4u.net/spermwap/ *spermwap* | http://bisexual4u.net/dirtyoldman/ *dirtyoldman* | http://bisexual4u.net/naughtyamerica/ *naughtyamerica* | http://bisexual4u.net/intermixed/ *intermixed* | http://bisexual4u.net/bookwormbitches/ *bookwormbitches* | http://bisexual4u.net/sadoslaves/ *sadoslaves* | http://bisexual4u.net/peelover/ *peelover* | http://bisexual4u.net/itsjustchocolate/ *itsjustchocolate* | http://bisexual4u.net/myfriendshotmom/ *myfriendshotmom* | http://bisexual4u.net/mysistershotfriend/ *mysistershotfriend* | http://bisexual4u.net/dirtylatinamaids/ *dirtylatinamaids* | http://bisexual4u.net/fasttimesatnau/ *fasttimesatnau* | http://bisexual4u.net/misspain/ *misspain* | http://bisexual4u.net/jakebustsnuts/ *jakebustsnuts* | http://bisexual4u.net/buttcam/ *buttcam* | http://bisexual4u.net/sweetauditions/ *sweetauditions* | http://bisexual4u.net/givemepink/ *givemepink* | http://bisexual4u.net/qmov/ *qmov*
===
http://footf.com/frenchpee.html *frenchpee* | http://footf.com/sweetloads.html *sweetloads* | http://footf.com/sweetauditions.html *sweetauditions* | http://footf.com/buttcam.html *buttcam* | http://footf.com/dirtyoldman.html *dirtyoldman* | http://footf.com/bookwormbitches.html *BOOKWORMBITCHES* | http://footf.com/surferdefense.html *SURFERDEFENSE* | http://footf.com/maxhardcoreporn.html *maxhardcoreporn* | http://footf.com/naughtyoffice.html *NAUGHTYOFFICE* | http://footf.com/sadoslaves.html *sadoslaves* | http://footf.com/socalcoeds.html *SOCALCOEDS* | http://footf.com/myfirstsexteacher.html *MYFIRSTSEXTEACHER* | http://footf.com/athensgirls.html *athensgirls* | http://footf.com/naughtyamericamobile.html *NAUGHTYAMERICAMOBILE* | http://footf.com/filthyfuckingcoeds.html *FILTHYFUCKINGCOEDS* | http://footf.com/misspain.html *misspain* | http://footf.com/mysistershotfriend.html *MYSISTERSHOTFRIEND* | http://footf.com/thedirtyoldman.html *thedirtyoldman* | http://footf.com/myfriendshotmom.html *MYFRIENDSHOTMOM* | http://footf.com/abbraxaporn.html *abbraxaporn* | http://footf.com/dirtylatinamaids.html *DIRTYLATINAMAIDS* | http://footf.com/intermixed.html *intermixed* | http://footf.com/naughtyamerica.html *NAUGHTYAMERICA* | http://footf.com/jakebustsnuts.html *jakebustsnuts* | http://footf.com/fistinglessons.html *fistinglessons* | http://footf.com/itsjustchocolate.html *itsjustchocolate* | http://footf.com/sweetmembers.html *sweetmembers* | http://footf.com/fasttimesatnau.html *FASTTIMESATNAU* | http://footf.com/angelsofporn.html *angelsofporn* | http://footf.com/latinadultery.html *LATINADULTERY* | http://footf.com/peelover.html *peelover* | http://footf.com/americandaydreams.html *AMERICANDAYDREAMS*
===
http://www.ox-bang.com/bigtitsroundasses.php3 *BIGTITSROUNDASSES* | http://www.ox-bang.com/myfirstsexteacher.php3 *MYFIRSTSEXTEACHER* | http://www.ox-bang.com/bookwormbitches.php3 *BOOKWORMBITCHES* | http://www.ox-bang.com/bangbrosworldwide.php3 *BANGBROSWORLDWIDE* | http://www.ox-bang.com/oxpassport.php3 *OXPASSPORT* | http://www.ox-bang.com/myfriendshotmom.php3 *MYFRIENDSHOTMOM* | http://www.ox-bang.com/momsanaladventure.php3 *MOMSANALADVENTURE* | http://www.ox-bang.co

Posted by: ASa on December 29, 2006 11:54 AM
Post a comment
Name:


Email Address (optional):


URL (optional):





Comments:


Remember info?



Powered by Movable Type 2.63