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YOU DON’T BRING ME FLOWERS ANYMORE

This is our last best chance to do something right and we better not blow it. (Senator Biden on Nightline June 28, 2004)

Did anyone see the clip of the Iraqi’s yawning over the news that they had their country back? For those who didn’t know or missed it as it flew by, the US turned sovereignty back to Iraq today, June 28, 2004 at 10:26 AM Baghdad. Perhaps the Iraqi’s knew what our government did not know, and that is the country was never ours to turn over, but that’s a mute point now.

It was just so cute, so amusing, so Jr. High with GWB and Tony Blair sharing a secret handshake, Rummy smiling on at the “boys” as they giggled in their chair telling no one that the 4th of July for Iraq had just begun. Right to the end Tony and George badly needing European help just don’t understand how they shut that help out.

How much power Iraqi’s have is a little confusing. The government is not elected but appointed by the US, the US controls security and most important the US controls the purse strings for reconstruction. Iraqi’s are not stupid they know this is just another photo op like Bush’s landing on the Abraham Lincoln with a sock in the crotch of his flight suit.

Ahead of us we will have speeches about how “free” Iraq is, any problems that crop up will be Iraq’s fault not this government as they are engaged in further attempts to obfuscate the truth and to confuse. To quote Rob Cordray of Comedy Central “we are no longer occupying forces, we are now invited guests, armed tourists.” The truth is Iraq will control nothing, except maybe the light switch if and when they can get the electricity up and running. Yesterday was a staged White House event in the lives of the Iraqi’s, much as the toppling of the Saddam statue.

While it was a good day for George Bush with Jupiter in sextile to his Sun plus the North Node was in a trine to his Natal Mars and progressed Sun, oh yes indeed it was a good day for George Bush, even if fleeting. Saturn in a square to his Chiron and soon squaring his Moon, euphoria will soon give way to some big headaches for him and for the US

Paul Bremer (Sept. 30, 1941 Hartford, CT) left so fast it put me in mind of the two days before the War when Saddam’s sons pulled up to the banks and emptied them of billions. I just wonder if customs checked Paul’s luggage for the billions not accounted for by the Iraq Provisional Government. http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040628/ap_on_re_mi_ea/britain_iraq_funds_1. Course with Pluto opposing his Jupiter and squaring his North Node, I expect Mr. Bremer has been living with fear of being caught where he didn’t belong for quite awhile. It will be interesting to see if Paul can help this administration or justice department find those missing billions. By the way, his Jupiter conjuncts US Mars and his NN conjuncts US Neptune. A person with these aspects could steal the US and Iraq blind and then try to wash the blood from his hands. That's only my opinion but he hasn’t risen this high in the ranks without knowing when to get out of Dodge.

Another reason he is so anxious to leave as soon as possible is the toxicity in the air. Who in their right minds would want to keep breathing the toxic, cancer producing chemicals we have put into the air, not a fastidious Virgo. It might be too late for him to avoid the consequences of those chemicals; he really needs a good medical check-up for several years.

I must say, for me, the chart of today’s handover is as confusing as the various charts for Iraq (1921, 1932, 1958.) All three of my computer programs came up with a 15 degree Virgo Ascendant as did some of the respected sites I access to check my figures. On the other hand there were astrologers and some other respected sites quoting a 2-degree Virgo Ascendant, in spite of the confusion, the Ascendant degree is 2 Virgo as Iraq is on Daylight Savings Time, an unusual situation for them.

Over the coming days and weeks astrologers will make a case for each one of the three given dates for modern Iraq and you will be able to access those from surfing the web or going to the column to your right on Astroworld and reading some of our links and I hope you do that. As Baghdad is considered the seat of modern Civilization and it seems as if this administration and Israel are working toward making Baghdad the last stand of Civilization I prefer to focus on the Foundation Chart of Iraq, with a bow toward the chart of the Baathist Party (Iraq’s new governing leader Allawi is a former Baath member, former CIA agent, former terrorists) and the July 15th, 1958, 4:00am Iraq chart. The events of the day relate to all four of those charts but what we are seeing today is not the “new Iraq.”

In one of his books, the 11th century astronomer/astrologer/scholar al-Bîrűnî has preserved the foundation chart of the city of Baghad. The Caliph al-Mansűr (c.679-777) desired to build a new capital city. He told his court astrologer, Nawbakht the Persian (c.679-777), to select a favorable time to begin construction. Nawbakht, with the assistance of the young Mâshâ'allâh (c.740-c.815) and other prominent astrologers of the time, selected the early afternoon of 4 Jumada I 145 A.H., which is equivalent to Saturday 31 July 762 in the Julian calendar. (James Holden)

I would be thrilled if this hand-over were ‘real’ and a positive change for Iraq even if it means Bush would win the election. I am not willing to see one more death, one more second of suffering by the Iraqi’s or Americans for the pleasure of being right about Bush. I want to see him out of the White House but not if it means more and more pain. Unfortunately I don’t think that is the case. The Iraqi people have a very long way to go, more to suffer, and I wouldn’t give a plug nickel for Allawi’s longevity.

The grand water trine of yesterday (Sun, Moon, Uranus) indicated a peaceful event; Venus has gone stationary in anticipation of the Venus turnaround today. Yesterday’s Moon (at 10:36am in Baghdad) was conjunct the South Node, indicating a “return” to something old for them, something beside what the Americans had in mind. The transition Saturn was conjunct the Foundation Iraq’s Neptune and Saturn will soon conjoin the Mercury and their South Node in that ancient chart. Tribal rule is what Iraq will have to resort to in order to survive and maintain their resources or keep them from being “liberated” by their liberators.

This is going to be a very long and hard road for Iraq, in the 1958 chart (their last liberation) Saturn at 20 degrees Sagittarius and opposing Venus in Gemini is being hammered by a conjunction from Tpluto. Those Venus/Saturn aspects are very close to the US Mars/Neptune square in the US chart and GWB’s Uranus and progressed Midheaven. If there is a Waterloo for Bush and the United States, Iraq is it.

TPluto to Saturn is really tough energy and it takes years to sort out, Pluto is also in a square to the Natal Pluto in the Baathist Party Chart, so we have a morphing into something new for these people.

The big winner out of all this is the same corrupt regime that we were supposedly removing. Think back 20 or 30 years when we supported Saddam, everyone was so friendly so nice, Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam as we sold him the chemicals to gas the Kurds. Alliwa is Saddam for the US, just a different name and he is Baathist to boot. Won’t be long before there are pictures of Rummy shaking hands with Alliwa like the 1983 picture of Rummy and Saddam.


So folks, pick a chart of Iraq, any chart including the US and this war, occupation and odd little fake turnover and the US signature is all over it. Pick a politician or business involved with the raping of Iraq and their energetic signature is all over the landscape, it isn’t hard to find the connections, they are fairly screaming off the page. This is no more and Iraqi transition than the Bush declaration “the war is over and we’ve won” speech on the Abraham Lincoln. The fighting, the killing, the lies, the lost funds, all keep on going on and this hand picked US provisional government will be beyond having their hands full. This act does not wash the blood off this administration’s hands.

Keep a watch on Josh Marshall’s site he is sitting on a Big Bush Bomb that will go off this summer.

Sally Cheyne McDonald on Jun 29 | Link
Comments

Sally, we both have telepathic or ESP, whatever they call it connections! I was going to ask you
about this very Irqui timing. Originally, this
running with the tail between his legs by bremmer
and his cronies was supposed to be on June 30. But then, as you've mentioned, the guy ran with tail between his legs, when no body was watching
two days early.My question is, astrologically,
June 28, is it worse than June 30th per planetary
postions?

Posted by: Raj on June 29, 2004 10:53 PM

Another development is that Nader is not getting
any respect the second time around as he was shown
the door at the Green Party convention and won't get the automatic entry in the ballots in 22 states.That also augurs well for Kerry victory by
a rout and not a squeaker!

Posted by: Raj on June 29, 2004 10:56 PM

Woo, Woo, Sally! Duh, what is Josh's addy!!

I adore your site!!!
Sarah

Posted by: Sarah on June 29, 2004 11:07 PM

Actually Raj, the 30th is going to be a bad day world wide, as well as the 1st. Mr. Bush won't be having too many good days this summer, yesterday was one of his good days, hope he enjoyed it, not many of them around for him. Take a look at the Josh Marshall site, scroll down to June 28th at 2:57am and read not only the article but the linked articles as well buried within his comments. Before he went on vacation Josh said he and his colleagues had a story that would shift the teutonic plates under Washington. I am sure this column has something to do with that story. Josh isn't someone to run out there with nothing, he is sitting on a huge story of that I am sure and July will be heating up for George. His Solar Return has Saturn on the 1st house Cusp squaring his Moon, I don't think he will like the people very much this summer, also his moon is in the 3rd house, the press may not be as friendly as before.

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/

Posted by: Sally on June 29, 2004 11:09 PM

Thanks, Sally!
~D

Posted by: Dommael on June 29, 2004 11:48 PM

I can't wait to read Sally's new article, but, I don't want to wait to post this good news! Just read on DU that the Supremes retired for the year without anyone retiring!!!!! Read my lips! No New Appointees!

Posted by: Sharon Katz on June 30, 2004 12:27 AM

Wow! Raj sees a Kerry rout, Sally sees tough times at the WH corral this summer, Sharon announces the Supremes remain intact for the near-term! While we all dread the continued/escalating violence that will surely ensue as the season unfolds, we can find hope and that is wonderful.

Really terrific article, Sally! Just great.

Posted by: shylurker on June 30, 2004 12:45 AM

Thank you Sally. I really enjoyed reading your article. Lately, I have been clicking on 'AstroWorld' before I go to the DU. (an interesting sign).

Now, as far as L. Paul Bremer goes, that's one fellow I'm keenly interested in NOW (did anyone else notice his broad smile as he shook hands with the 'new boss'.

I've read that he's George Bush's cousin, but have never been able to substantiate that.

I've been VERY disgruntled about the missing billions. Ever since the Christian organizations blew the whistle on that slight bookkeeping error earlier this year, there has been no more information on this.

I'm an accountant, and I'm interested in inflows & outflows. In the case of Iraq, it's been a lot of outflow, without any accountability.

I know that Bremer hotly denied any wrongdoing earlier in the spring, and he promised a full accounting by the "CPA" on the internet. I waited patiently. Months went by, and nothing ever materialized.

Still today, there are no answers. I know Ted Kennedy speculated that about half of it went to "bribes", but I suspected a lot of it went to mercenaries and contractors.

I've tried to keep track of the war spending, but it's been very difficult. The figures seem to move, I see new and different figures all the time.

So now I'm flashing back to Bremer's big smile, as he boarded the jet and went back home. How much money did he transfer to his own checking accounts?

Has anyone done a study on him?

Posted by: Cliss on June 30, 2004 01:01 AM

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=96&e=5&u=/space/20040628/sc_space/massiveblackholestumpsresearchers

Massive Black Hole Stumps Researchers
By Tariq Malik
Staff Writer, SPACE.com

A team of astronomers have found a colossal black hole so ancient, they're not sure how it had enough time to grow to its current size, about 10 billion times the mass of the Sun.

Sitting at the heart of a distant galaxy, the black hole appears to be about 12.7 billion years old, which means it formed just one billion years after the universe began and is one of the oldest supermassive black holes ever known.

The black hole, researchers said, is big enough to hold 1,000 of our own Solar Systems and weighs about as much as all the stars in the Milky Way.

more at link~
~D

Posted by: Dommael on June 30, 2004 01:29 AM

Thanks, Sally, for a really great, penetrating and hopeful article. And thanks to everyone else (raj, cliss, skylurker, dommael, etc.)for your great items and superb enthusiam. The news is suddenly turning very, very good, as Skylurker said. With Kerry gradually and solidly gaining, Moore helping, Cheney mouthing off, Morgana well, and Bush's planets soon taking a downturn (to counteract any strength he & his handlers have been struggling to achieve), as well as a scandal (or two!) to hopefully exlode very soon, I'm feeling downright gleeful!!! It's going to be a Great 4th.

I own a copy of James Cagney as George M. Cohan in "Yankee Doodle Dandy" and I'm really looking forward to watching it this weekend.

Another bit of good news from DU: Bloomberg kept turning down permits for the Repug convention protest but the NYC City Council outvoted him and said the PEOPLE should be allowed to PROTEST.

POWER to the PEOPLE!

Posted by: Sharon Katz on June 30, 2004 01:31 AM

So many possibilities for a bombshell here just like the ones going off every day in Iraq.Here, I
mean figuratively. Sen.Graham,repug is upto something.He is ruffling feathers big time amongst
his own repugs with not backing down and says will
do whatever it takes to unearth the abu ghraib
scandal to the very bottom of it.He is only 48 yrs.old and is certainly positioning himself as
a future pres.candidate(far in the future).But he is very chummy with Hillary and even getting wrath
of nutty,indecent,arrogant cheny for that matter.

Posted by: Raj on June 30, 2004 01:49 AM

Wheels are coming off helter skelter of the repug
wagon folks.Jerk ashy is in deep troubled waters;
being questioned by repugs Grassley(Iowa),Hatch etc. for letting no.27 on the wanted list al-marabh(terror suspect)to go to syria.FBI had collected evidence for criminal charges against him for prosecution, but the jerky toughie ashy released him just like the bin laden clan on 9/12
Everything coming up stinkies for the repugs,GREAT

Posted by: Raj on June 30, 2004 02:07 AM

Dommael, are you trying to tell us that's where all the money went? To that big black hole?

Posted by: shylurker on June 30, 2004 02:19 AM

Hey Folks. I'm back.

Oh my, Sally! John Marshall IS sitting on a bombshell. I think I know where this one is headed.

In other news, I'm living in central Michigan now and running a campaign for a crazy lady. I don't need it now, but at some point in the future I may need you all to focus your energy on helping this woman to cede responsibilty to so that I can get things done. She wants to run the campaign, but that's my job! She needs to canvass and raise money.

Anyway, just wanted to say hello. I'm still out here.

Posted by: Dave on June 30, 2004 02:40 AM

I have been amazed at Lindsey Graham. He has been actually showing some integrity and doing some good things lately. Is he actually a moderate or just independent?

Absolutely great news about the Supremes!! When do they begin again? September?

Sally - You mentioned Dub's solar return. Do we know where he will be for the night of the 4th? IIRC, his return comes early AM on the 5th. Also, what leads you to see Bremmer as taking some of that $$? The Node contact to US Neptune? I had been thinking he was just grateful to get out of the mess he had made without having to clean it up. Could we have yet another scandal in this cesspool of an adminstration?

Posted by: Nancy on June 30, 2004 03:00 AM

raj and nancy, regarding graham. i say this as someone who found his clinton impeachment behavior reprehensible, utterly. however, when i saw him responding to the torture scandal, it appeared that something profound was happening on a core level, as though he had some old stuff revived by the events and, particularly, the pictures. my opinion of him changed. he seems moved to do this, compelled almost. it will be interesting as the tension grows between his hard core loyalty to the republicans and his personal/moral imperative to right a terrible wrong (on multiple levels).

on the josh marshall thing, i believe that his pending story sounds like a revelation of cheney or other bushco involvement in the niger scam. how conveeeenient as the church lady used to say. this will come out about the same time the fitzgerald investigation of the plame leak culminates. remind me never to piss off the cia!

sally, quite an article. i look forward to you figuring out which is the relevant chart...only on astroworld.

Posted by: mike on June 30, 2004 03:31 AM

Here are some musings about the missing money from Naomi Klein:

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0629-12.htm

Posted by: Nancy on June 30, 2004 03:56 AM

Embrace the Christed Human Angel

http://awakening-healing.com./A-HNewsLetters/2004/Crystal_Childerns_Message.htm

Posted by: Sharon Katz on June 30, 2004 03:57 AM

Only one more day until June departs. From Nancy Waterman's "Timeline" for June 2004:


"Very difficult time for administration and country; defeat, policy failures and major compromises; grave problems; great criticism directed at Bush and the administration; administration bumbling, deceitful; scandals highlighted; American prestige at a low point; disastrous results of Bush's reckless policies increasingly apparent; Bush poll numbers reach new lows; allies not supportive; instability in Iraq intensifies through August."

And, according to all you experts (e.g., Sally's latest article), it's going to get more and more spectacular.

Wow.

Posted by: shylurker on June 30, 2004 04:13 AM

Sally,

I have a slightly different view of the "Sovereingty Chart".


In looking at the "sovereignty" chart again,it came to mind that the Jupiter opposition Uranus is not only the struggle and big surprises
of the country's army against freedom, it is also
the struggle of the religious (Jupiter) against their own army (Uranus is the ruler of the 6th house(the army) in this chart).

The article someone linked concerning the interview of the three Iraqi generals leading the "resistance" indicates the struggle clearly.

But at the same time Jupiter opposes Uranus and squares Venus (ruling the second house and meaning excessive unexpected expenditures), Uranus is trining the Sun conj Saturn: a description of the Iraqi president as another strong man who will have the support of or who will support/get along just fine with the rebel resistance.(As Sally says he is of the Baath party and the generals leading the resistance are the Baath Party. Also as Sally has pointed out, what the administration has done is turned the country back to the same people it displaced).

The Uranus trine Saturn Sun is part of the Grand Trine to Moon/South Node in Scorpio.

Uranus is in the seventh house described both as partners and open enemies.With that trine to the
"strong man" Saturn/Sun conjunction, I would say again the US's partner Allawi is going to surprise
the US and do/become the unexpected.After all, the US foreign policy (actually it looks like our foreign policy IS the CIA instead of the State Dept. and has always been so) supported both Saddam and bin laden, so another "client" who bites the hand that put guns in his hand would not be a surprise.

Meanwhile the people represented by Moon/South Node conjunction are trining the "strong man" and the dictatorial Uranus. They like -are used to- Iraqi dictatorship and army running things.

Did anybody bother to ask the people of Iraq if they wanted a western type democracy? Apparently they are comfortable with the past, strongly signified by both the Moon and the South Node which are indicators of past, past life.

Just as Russia almost went back to communism because that was what they were used to, I predict Iraq will return to some form of strong man/dictatorship, i.e. another father figure. Don't forget they called Husssein Father.

I tend to look at the larger view when viewing a chart like this rather than the day by day event, and this is what I see as the final outcome of today's "return of sovereignty" to the Iraqi people.

Posted by: Pallas18 on June 30, 2004 04:37 AM

Follow this yellow brick road.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L._Paul_Bremer

Posted by: Pat C on June 30, 2004 04:48 AM

Who Lost Iraq? - Krugman

http://tinyurl.com/3gdd2

Posted by: Pat C on June 30, 2004 04:56 AM

good one Pat C.

Makes you wonder if he also was a member of skull and bones at Yale. All the right credentials for
fascism and terrorism, from Nixon's period to Kissinger to Reagan "Terrorism" appointment. Does that mean he worked hand in hand with Negroponte
in South American countries condoning torture and killings? Could be. He looks like such an innocent, but then again so did Ted Bundy. :(

Posted by: Pallas18 on June 30, 2004 04:58 AM

Nancy, yes that's part of it (Neptune on US NN and Jupiter squaring) Jupiter square Neptune (amoung other things) feels they are entitled, when I look at the US Mars/Neptune and the amount of resources we use compared to the rest of the world and we feel entitled, Jupiter/Neptune/NN just expands that concept. I don't think he would see it as "stealing" just not grasp that he needs to account for the money, I don't believe he felt like that was necessary. Even if it was just 1 or 2 Billion missing, that's huge, at the least Bremer needs to be investigated.

As for Bush Solar Return, just take a look at it, Saturn in the 1st house in a square to his Moon.(when the Solar Return is from Crawford, TX) Saturn in the 1st house of a solar return is usually not that positive an aspect, but his whole year is going to be colored by that square to his Moon and his progressed Mars. Every time anything aspects that 15/16 degree Cancer/Libra/Aries/Capricorn he is going to feel the pinch.

When the Solar Return is taken from Washington, DC that puts Leo on the 1st house cusp and Saturn in the 12th making an even more difficult placement than the 1st house. With the DC chart Mars is on the 1st house cusp ruling the 12th (repeating his natal house cusps) Mars in his Solar Return squares the NN and Saturn rules the 6th house of health.

Solar Return Saturn (In either chart) squares his Moon all year, SR Mars conjuncts his Mercury all year. He is going to be a bit snappy after July with that Mars/Mercury aspect.

I don't know if it's because of scandal (possible with TNeptune inconjunct SR Saturn and natal Sun this year, or because he is sick, or angry but with these aspects I don't know that he will end up running and if he does he will win through fraud and will not serve more than six months in his second term. I do think there is a big, big, bigger scandal coming this summer for him and his supporters are going to feel pinched to keep supporting him.

The other thing that keeps nagging me is the Moon in the 2000 Election chart at 7:00pm Washington, DC, ends at 2 degrees Pisces, and Uranus on 2004 Election night is at 2 degrees Pisces (retrograde) do the people deliver a shock for the country, will they pick up what they lost in 2000. Also the Moon in the 2004 election 7pm chart conjuncts the NN in the 2000 chart, we will be looking for someone new, or something new.

Posted by: Sally on June 30, 2004 05:06 AM

this author has written a book about two men discussing the big a of dimson. Much of the discussion can be found at the link below.

It would be funny that much of the dialogue sounds like us complaining and *itching or could have been taken from us, but the fact that the secret service is looking into it to see if it's inciting is not funny.


http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=536594

Posted by: Pallas18 on June 30, 2004 05:14 AM

Lindsey Graham caught my attention some time ago. He is a mars/uranus guy with possible trans uranus conjuncting natal moon. No birth time available, but his bio gave him a July 9, 1955 birthdate in Central, SC.

And a side note, re the Clinton impeachment. When all was said and done, he voted against it. At least I think that is what I read somewhere.

Posted by: Shade on June 30, 2004 05:19 AM

buzzflash is reporting Dicky-doo Cheney was booed at a baseball game today.

Posted by: shylurker on June 30, 2004 05:19 AM

Shylurker~
Sometimes I've found these events sync up in the timeline in intriguing ways. There are worse metaphors!

Roger Romani, a Stanford University associate professor whose team found the object. "It's a bit of a challenge to understand how this black hole got enough mass to reach its size."

"Very massive black holes like this are so rare, that one should really be a little suspicious at first," Romani said.
;-) ~D

Posted by: Dommael on June 30, 2004 05:24 AM

Pallas, I'd say this man is MOST intertwined from decades back. It is all the same people over and over again. They never gave up.

Sally, Nancy, Pallas, such amazing astrology. Thank you so much for your work!

Posted by: Pat C on June 30, 2004 05:25 AM

Pallas, interesting take. On events I first look toward who they most benefited and then to the larger picture of winners and losers (over the long haul.)Venus, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto all retrograde (particularly with the Uranus and Pluto contacts to Iraq 1958 chart would indicate this is not done, and it isn't the hand-over, particularly with Uranus squaring Iraq's Mars. But it was a good day for Bush, and an old war with the US. One Iraqi said "why doesn't Bush just go ahead and make us the 51st State, that's what they are trying to do anyway."

Posted by: Sally on June 30, 2004 05:27 AM

Whoops Pallas I nearly forgot, you were wondering if Bremer was a member of the Skull and Bones, there is a Samuel Bremmer, but it isn't the same spelling. This is a link to the Skull and Bones Roster, you can follow our government back to the early 1900's with this list with Teddy Roosevelt being the first Skull and Bones man to serve.

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/bones.htm

Posted by: Sally on June 30, 2004 05:31 AM

shade, interesting about the mars/uranus for graham. unfortunately, he did vote for impeachment. he was on the house impeachment committee and he voted yes and then led the prosecution of the case against 'the big dog' in the senate. it makes this all the more compelling and curious. something has to stink to high heavens to get a cool-aid drinking republican to turn on bushco.

Posted by: mike on June 30, 2004 05:37 AM

Shameless in Iraq

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0629-12.htm

Posted by: Pat C on June 30, 2004 05:41 AM

Nancy what do you think about the Supreme Court? The time I have for them is 09.26.1789, New York, noon chart (don't have the time) Why do you think that two years in a row no one would step down?

Posted by: Sally on June 30, 2004 05:42 AM

Keyword: Privatizing

Jerry Bremer left some 90 directives/laws to be followed by the new "sovereignty".

He ran out of there as did dimson run out of there.

My take: not only did dimson run out of there and push up the "sovereignty" for his re-election, but
because essentially his goals have been reached.
The oil contracts have been signed, and directives left in place, and what do you want to bet the oil pipeline is well on its way to completion, therefore no need for Bremmer to stick around or dimson and company to try to milk the last penny out of Iraq. Halliburton and the contractors will do that.

Remember. The reason to send the United States army there was as a private army for Unocal and Shell etc. Not for wmd, freedom and the rest of that Krappola. Who will take my bet that the oil pipeline and contracts are on target and that's why the cabal could leave now (who gives a damn about chaos and lack of security for the citizens of Iraq) ?

Posted by: Pallas18 on June 30, 2004 05:43 AM

Mike, maybe it's just rats deserting a stinking sinking ship. Wasn't it Helms today who got off on a rant about the tax breaks? And it's hysterical that they are going to trot Ahhhhhhnold and McCain out at their convention. They seem to be recognizing that they have blown it big time. And if Cheney gets booed at a ball game ????!!!!

As for Eye-rack, nothing much will change. Smirky & Co. will continue to rule/ruin the country, torture will continue (but the world will be able to blame Allawi or whatever his name is), our young men and women will continue to be killed and maimed, Iraqis will continue to die, etc. The one thing I'm most curious about is why they will let Saddam go to trial. He knows many, many dark things about them and he will sing and sing, I'm sure. Or, has some deal been cut? Hmmmm.

Posted by: shylurker on June 30, 2004 05:45 AM

Sally, not astrology, but I think there were no retirements in order make sure Bush got in, this time, I wonder.

Posted by: Pat C on June 30, 2004 05:51 AM

I hear ya, Pallas18. As hard as it is to contain the outrage, I know I'd feel worse than awful if an offhand comment of mine was interpreted as seditious by Big Brother and resulted in Sally's website getting yanked off the web.
~D

Posted by: Dommael on June 30, 2004 05:52 AM

Five Minutes With Bush

http://tinyurl.com/2cry5

Posted by: Pat C on June 30, 2004 05:57 AM

Pallas I read someplace yesterday (and didn't save it) that 80 percent of Iraq's oil has not been tapped as yet and the question was why Bush was leaving it that way. There are recalling discharged service men for Afghan and Iraq. We haven't left the area as yet and are still building a pipe line in Afghanistan. I wonder if their objectives have been met but they think they can kill two birds with one stone. Make it look like we are giving the Iraqi's control when we are not however they may believe it will boost at home polls. I don't know but I do know we don't have the whole story and with Neptune inconj. Saturn the fish smell is pretty bad.

Posted by: Sally on June 30, 2004 06:01 AM

http://www.salon.com/news/wire/2004/06/29/justice_data/index.html

Justice: Sharing Data Would Crash System

Posted by: Pat C on June 30, 2004 06:09 AM

shylurker, re: arnold at the repub convention

maybe he could recaputulate his role in 'stay hungry' (1976): hop up on the platform, smoke a joint, pop some steroids, and mumble in that stupid concoction of an dialect he has invented. i say, NEVER repeal that constitutional amendment that requires birth in the usa for presidents. i realize that's not politically correct or particularly evolved, but arnold is a wack job or maybe one of those lizzard people!

Posted by: mike on June 30, 2004 06:14 AM

mike, "lizard people" is just about right!!


BREAKING: Saddam to Be Charged by Iraqi Judge on Thursday
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/0630041.shtml

Posted by: Pat C on June 30, 2004 06:22 AM

http://www.accuracy.org/press_releases/PR062904.htm

"What Happened to $20 Billion of Iraq's Money"

Posted by: Pat C on June 30, 2004 07:12 AM

Mike... as with all the severely mega-sexually repressed pugs, such as Graham, "It's the sex, stupid." ;O) (Take off on Pres Clinton's slogan, not personal to you in any way.)

Posted by: JoannOregon on June 30, 2004 07:12 AM

* First Ripple of a Political Tidal Wave?

Rep Jay Inslee knows about political tidal waves, because one of them almost sank his political career. Inslee, who now represents a suburban Seattle district, was tossed out of Congress from another district in the 1994 Republican sweep. "When you see a tidal wave go over your head about 35 feet high," Inslee says, "you notice it."

But he came back to the House in 1998, & now what he's seeing "is the same tidal wave moving in the opposite direction... There's a passion out there." And the passion, Inslee says, is running against George W Bush. ... http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A13500-2004Jun28.html


Posted by: JoannOregon on June 30, 2004 07:41 AM

thank YOU again, Sally for providing further insights into this boondoggle sure to become even more complex in the years to come. Even without all the astrological data to support it, king george is visibly showing his madness. It will take the shame of this administration to wake up the general populace especially those who have supported the unconscionable choices made in the name of democracy. Again, i hope that alarm goes off in time to stop our currency from crashing. The deeper we dig into our pockets to "invest" in democracy throughout the world, the more shaky our own standing with the world's bankers. Will post a link shortly that explores this pending disaster.

karen/farrout

Posted by: karen on June 30, 2004 01:38 PM

The author of this concise and excellent treatise has given permission for this to be passed widely. "Where's the Money" chillingly explores the consequences of our burdgeoning debt.

http://www.gv.net/~edconco/Where_is_the_Money.html


karen/farrout

Posted by: karen on June 30, 2004 01:43 PM

Great article Sally. I especially concur with your opinions on this: "I am not willing to see one more death, one more second of suffering by the Iraqi’s or Americans for the pleasure of being right about Bush. I want to see him out of the White House but not if it means more and more pain." This administration is going down because there are LOTS of people with loads of information on them. They just want to make sure it's air-tight. Read this from Colonel David Hackworth, (maybe the kind of stuff L. Graham is following up on): "Anyone with knowledge of Abu Ghraib prison scandal please contact SFTT with information we can use to truly bring justice in this case. DefenseWatch magazine has received numerous tips that the Department of Defense has implemented an all out campaign to suppress information regarding the Abu Ghraib prison scandal. Since the beginning of court-martials in this case, over 75 more personnel have been implicated, including senior MI commanders who had operational control of the prison while this abuse was occurring. YET, we are still being told the systematic and methodical abuse of Iraqi prisoners was only the independent actions of 7 lower enlisted personnel. If you believe this is a case of Big Brass CYA, that DOD is hanging out 7 enlisted people to cover up a program that had been going on for more than one year, please contact George at SFTT.


Abusing The System

Getting a fair number of reports concerning senior officers abusing the system. Here is just one: “Ask Hack to do all he can to ensure accountability. He needs to "follow the money" over here. $5B a month being spent, most wasted. Many perks and pay offs. Good deals for pals. He should ask his contacts in Baghdad about the 33 Generals at Camp Victory, allegedly each with a lakeside villa.” Got similar reports about slippery deals going on in Iraq, Oman and Kuwait. $100K plus SUVs for VIPS etc. Send your input to me. Thx, Hack


Pregnancy

Psst. Did you hear that the infamous PFC Lynndie R. England is pregnant? And so are thousands of less famous service women in all branches, especially the Army and Marines. Please tell me what’s going on in your outfit. I’ve been getting serious stonewalling from the PAO folks at the Pentagon. They treat pregnancy stats with a higher security classification then the number of nukes in their arsenals. Am told they have no stats on pregnancy and they suggest it is not a big problem. This is totally opposite of what hundreds of troops have reported to me. If you can get your hands on some hard stats for your unit, please send ‘em along. Have the stats for the 101st Airborne and 3d Mech and they’re mind boggling. Send your input to me. Thx, Hack"

Posted by: Peg on June 30, 2004 02:42 PM

WASHINGTON -- The government needs to establish guidelines for canceling or rescheduling elections if terrorists strike the United States again, says the chairman of a new federal voting commission.

Such guidelines do not currently exist, said DeForest B. Soaries, head of the voting panel.

Soaries was appointed to the federal Election Assistance Commission last year by President Bush. Soaries said he wrote to National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice and Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge in April to raise the concerns

-Atrios 1:05 AM
Comments (236) | Trackbacks (2)
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040625/ap_on_el_ge/election_terrorism_1

Posted by: Sally on June 30, 2004 03:02 PM

http://www.nightlybusiness.org/transcript/2004/transcript062804.html

Separation of Fed & Politics
Nightly Business Report (scroll down)

PAUL KANGAS: Separation of powers is one of the bedrocks upon which the founding fathers fashioned our system of government. Tonight`s commentator says that separation should be extended to some other things as well. Here`s Kenneth Thomas, lecturer in finance at the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania.

KENNETH THOMAS, FINANCE LECTURER, THE WHARTON SCHOOL: What if the politically independent Fed gets too close to the administration and there is the reality, or even the perception, they are being influenced by political as well as economic winds? Beginning in 1999 I used the Freedom of Information Act to obtain Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan`s appointment calendar. What were monthly meetings at the Clinton White House from `96 to 2000 became weekly meetings under President Bush well before 9/11. Greenspan`s visits went from three per month in `01 to nearly five per month in `02 and six per month in `03. He regularly meets with Cheney, Condi Rice, Rumsfeld, and other White House politicos. These increasingly frequent meetings may give the appearance politics are influencing the Fed.

Posted by: Pat C on June 30, 2004 03:20 PM

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia/story.jsp?story=536481

A new chapter in publishing

First it was manufacturing. Then it was call centres. Now, the publishing industry is starting to move its operations to India. Oliver Bennett looks at the next era in outsourcing

More...

Posted by: Pat C on June 30, 2004 03:20 PM

Mike I stand corrected. There were 4 articles of impeachment. Graham only voted against Article II.

In his conduct while President of the United States, William Jefferson Clinton, in violation of his constitutional oath faithfully to execute the office of President of the United States and, to the best of his ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States, and in violation of his constitutional duty to take care that the laws be faithfully executed, has willfully corrupted and manipulated the judicial process of the United States for his personal gain and exoneration, impeding the administra tion of justice, in that:

~more at http://www.pbs.org/newshour/impeachment/vote/house_vote.html

Please note, I am not defending L. Graham in anyway. I just find it interesting that he shares Rumy's birthday, July 9th, so will be feeling trans Saturn as well, but in his case, he has the Uranian influence going on. Where that may go will be interesting to watch. One can only hope that "country before party" will begin to take hold in our congress and senate sometime soon.

Posted by: Shade on June 30, 2004 03:54 PM

Wow! That sounds just like the charges that should be leveled against this pResident, and this time it will be true!!

Posted by: Pat C on June 30, 2004 04:15 PM

The Assault weapons ban is about to expire .. and nobody cares?? Great .. more guns, just what this country needs.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2004/06/30/notes063004.DTL&nl=fix

Posted by: Siobhan on June 30, 2004 04:31 PM

Back to WHY the Iraqi's are oblivious to the "changeover",from the Guardian,http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1250526,00.html According to an al-Jazeera television crew, who had been filming the prisoners when the US military police conducted their raid, most of the detainees were blindfolded, with their hands cuffed behind their backs. One prisoner was so weak, from dehydration, that the US military policemen fitted an intravenous drip to rehydrate him.

Although none of the American officers involved in the raid would talk to the Guardian, one of the soldiers involved in the raid said that it had been launched after claims that prisoners were being abused.

US military spokesmen would not comment. "We can't confirm that this took place," a spokesman said.

One of the prisoners bared his back after his initial arrest to reveal open welts allegedly caused by baton and rubber hoses.

A bodyguard for the head of criminal intelligence, Hussein Kamal, admitted that the beatings had taken place.

Nashwan Ali - who said his nickname was Big Man - said: "A US MP asked me this morning what police division I was in. I said I was in criminal intelligence.

"The American asked me why we had beaten the prisoners. I said we beat the prisoners because they are all bad people. But I told him we didn't strip them naked, photograph them or fuck them like you did."

Posted by: Peg on June 30, 2004 04:48 PM

With the 108th Congress having a birthdate of January 7, 2003 at 12 o'clock noon in Washington, D.C. the Sun was at a right ascension of 288d 24m.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The seventh day of January being the day prescribed by Senate Joint Resolution 53 for the meeting of -- (Senate - January 07, 2003)


[Page: S1] GPO's PDF
---
The seventh day of January being the day prescribed by Senate Joint Resolution 53 for the meeting of the 1st session of the 108th Congress, the Senate assembled in its Chamber at the Capitol and at 12 noon was called to order by the Vice President (Mr. CHENEY).


Congressional Record article 1 of 62 Printer Friendly Display - 1,934 bytes.[Help ]

This being the day fixed by the 20th amendment to the Constitution of the United States and Public Law -- (House of Representatives - January 07, 2003)
[Page: H1] GPO's PDF

---
This being the day fixed by the 20th amendment to the Constitution of the United States and Public Law 107-328 for the meeting of the Congress of the United States, the Members-elect of the 108th Congress met in their Hall, and at noon were called to order by the Clerk of the House of Representatives, Hon. Jeff Trandahl.

***

Relocating the birthchart of resident Bush to Washington gives him an East Point (90d square to the Midheaven) of 108d 18m.

The conjunction of transiting Sun and Saturn on July 8, 2004 will occur at 108d 13m of right ascension, opposing the Congressional Sun and squaring Bush's Midheaven. Anyone care to share their thoughts as to what this might mean? It is only a week away.

Bob

Posted by: bob on June 30, 2004 04:57 PM

Sally, referencing your earlier post:

"WASHINGTON -- The government needs to establish guidelines for canceling or rescheduling elections if terrorists strike the United States again, says the chairman of a new federal voting commission.

Such guidelines do not currently exist, said DeForest B. Soaries, head of the voting panel.

Soaries was appointed to the federal Election Assistance Commission last year by President Bush. Soaries said he wrote to National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice and Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge in April to raise the concerns

-Atrios 1:05 AM
Comments (236) | Trackbacks (2)
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040625/ap_on_el_ge/election_terrorism_1"

Talk about synchronicity, I was just talking about that to my beloved domestic partner (and he is registered as a Republican as of course I am not -go figure- we are not a matched political couple, but he has other qualities I admire)that something would happen to disrupt the election in November and I mentioned Sally and the website and her predictions!!!

In addition, I am looking at a date of October 6th 2004 as a date where due to the various astrological calculations, hoary, etc. I have done something could be brewing re: Bush and a postponement of the elections. That date does look auspicious to me, one way or another.

October seems to be the start of something, what I am not sure, I have a few ideas, of course, but one way or another it will find its way into the history books, I am sure. But time will tell.

Thanks again Sally for all the fine ingestion of info you give to us all!


Posted by: Isabelle Ghaneh on June 30, 2004 06:50 PM

I know Howard Stern isn't everybody's cuppa, but this is a victory against double standards. Since Cheney showed his spots by cursing on the Senate floor...

Stern Back in Markets Where He Was Axed
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=8&u=/ap/20040630/ap_on_en_ot/howard_stern
Namaste~
~D

Posted by: Dommael on June 30, 2004 07:18 PM

Just as an aside, there's another item in DU where a national conventional of students held a mock presidential election, complete with campaigning, discussions of the issues, debates, etc., and the result was that Bush won the popular vote and Kerry won the electoral college vote! I don't think this will happen BUT it could be one of the ironic reversals/comeupances of which Sally/we speak. Though the ballots can be (G-d forbid) hacked or rigged, I don't think the electoral college vote can be.

Posted by: Sharon Katz on June 30, 2004 07:44 PM

Mike,
I also didn't like his behavior to impeach etal.
But, seems like he is learning and changing for the better, with a run for prez in the far,far future like what, 2012? At least, he has broken away from these ruts, and wants the guilty, however on the top they may be, to be brought to justice for the abu ghraib crimes, so only for that I think, he seems to be okay for someone who
is a repug.

Posted by: Raj on June 30, 2004 08:17 PM

Yahoo news has an article about "planning to establish guidelines for rescheduling or CANCELLING ELECTIONS (emphasis mine) in case of terrorist attacks.

AAAGGGHHH!

Posted by: Baraka on June 30, 2004 08:18 PM

Sharon, the electoral cannot be tampered with but if the vote is tampered with in individual states and bush wins those states (by vote) then the electoral votes go with whoever wins the state, that's the law. Each state's electoral votes must vote for the winner of the state.

Posted by: Sally on June 30, 2004 08:57 PM


Lady Sally:

What can I say? Your current article is better
even than the last.....Thank You! ! !

..................................................

FROM: BOOK REVIEW - Dell Horoscope Magazine -
August 2004 Issue

DARKSIDE ZODIAC by Stella Hyde; Red Wheel/Weiser
ISBN l57863-310-9 -
$19.95


Most beginners' astrology books get off to a good start by listing each sign's most endearing qualities. Perhaps after several qualifiers the author might mention that the sign has some less than desirable traits, but for the most part, these are glossed over. Dont't want to offend anyone...

Astrologer Stella Hyde takes the contrarian viewpoint in her delightfully sassy "Darkside Zodiac". Here the reader learns right up front that Aries is overbearing and overconfident, Taurus is opinionated and greedy, and Gemini is unreliable and two-faced. No soft-peddling the bad news in this bright gem of a primer! Getting into the details of each sign, the descriptions get grim. Cancer is a "grumpy, secretivew, passive-aggressive, grudge-hoarder, with bipolar mood swings and a positive genius for pointless worrying." Leo is "a vain, arrogant, condescening solipsist with imperial longings and an all-pervasive addiction to unconditional sycophancy".

In a weird, perverse sort of way, "Darkside Zodiac" is an excellent introduction to each sign's qualities. The writing is terse and clever, and with each new affront, memorable. As the introduction accurately warns, if you have self-esteem issues or a fragile personality, don't read this book. All the unredeeming qualities are laid out in fast-paced, snide attacks, so if you can't take the heat, move on. However, if you want a sitcom-styled sense of nasty humor, open any page at random for a good laugh.

The twelve sections of "Darkside Zodiac" are color-coded for quick access, and the many bright photographs and illustrations give the gloomy words a chipper fluorescence. Turning to the putrid green pages that mark Virgo's chapter, we learn that this sign consists of 'negative, tiny-hearted fusspots obsessed with detail, who do nothing but carp and criticize.' Further in, the author discusses the sign's ruling planet, which in Virgo's case is Mercury. In spite of the light -heartded silliness, "Darkside Zodiac" ventures beyond Sun-Signs to explore each sign's ruling planet.

And there's more. Each sign also gets a page devoted to Moon Sign combinations, which is found under the heading 'Bad Moon Rising". If you were born a Libra and have your Moon in Pisces, you will discover that "you get hammered on Southern Comfort and put too much reliance on the kindness of strangers:..Or a Scorpio with Moon in Aquarius is "dark, powerful, brooding, obsessive, cruel, harsh, and alien". Then, under the heading "Born Under a Bad Sign," each Sun-Sign gets a page with descriptions of the Rising Sign (also called the Ascendant). If, for example, you know someone who is a Sagittarius with Aries Rising, you will note that she is an "outwardly grumpy, tactless, impatient hothead, inwardly an amiable, tactless, impatient hothead."

Additional sections within each Sun-Sign include pages descring Venus, Mars and opposite Sun-Signs. In "Darkside Zodiac" the shine is coming off the Sun-Signs, and through a sado-masochistic process of verbal flagellation, the newcomer learns about the Moon, Rising Sign, ruling planet, Venus and Mars. Soon, under the guise of free-floating insults, the language of astrology begins to make sense.

Reviewed by: CHRIS LORENZ


Posted by: Corleonis on June 30, 2004 09:23 PM

Somebody please tell me how I managed to finally fill the whole page with script, instead of a
nasty-looking skinny column.

What did I do right, for a change?

BTW Notice the description of Cancer with Leo
rising? Sound like anybody we know.......?

This book may be worth a lot more than its price.
Chuckles are hard to come by nowadays, in MHO.....

Posted by: Corleonis on June 30, 2004 09:30 PM

That would happen, Carleonis, if you press the "return." Press it only when you want a new paragraph. ;O)

Posted by: JoannOregon on June 30, 2004 10:33 PM

ASHCROFT FACES WHISTLEBLOWER SECRETS PROBE
By Shaun Waterman
6/27/2004 10:10 PM
WASHINGTON-
The federal government's secrecy watchdog is conducting an inquiry into whether Attorney General John Ashcroft acted properly in classifying information relating to a lawsuit brought by a whistleblower from the FBI's translation unit.

Sibel Edmonds, a contract translator who blew the whistle on mismanagement, inefficiency and serious security problems, is suing the Department of Justice for violating her First Amendment rights by quashing her claims against the FBI with the rarely invoked "state-secrets privilege.

"http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20040627-030547-4386r

"Are there any astrological indicators that this evil serpent will eventually go down in flames? Do I dare hope?"

Posted by: Rosemary on June 30, 2004 10:48 PM

Dean to debate Nader July 7th on whether he should be running for president! That should be quite interesting. It's sponsored by NPR's "Justice Talk" program. No other details yet.

Darkside Zodiac sounds really cute, Corleonis!

Posted by: Sharon Katz on June 30, 2004 10:54 PM

Sally,
Please excuse my lack of manners. Before I posted I meant to:

"Thank You" for such an excellent article and also "Thank You" for so generously sharing your wonderful gifts/time with the many posters and readers on this site. Reading the articles and postings have so often given me hope on many a discouraging day.

Posted by: Rosemary on June 30, 2004 11:06 PM

I saw this article and thought it somewhat troubling. With the U.S. forces strained to the breaking point, what is the point of setting up a situation that could provoke diplomatic trouble with China? This kind of posturing on the part the U.S. at this time is insane. Is this cartel really trying to threaten the Chinese government over Taiwan? Is it conceivable that given our current military predicament, that we'd be gung ho to send in troops in support of Taiwan? What the hell are these morons in foggy bottom thinking?
http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/topstories/story/0,4386,259015,00.html

Posted by: Susan on June 30, 2004 11:30 PM

Just back from Toronto where the air was clean
peace prevailed, an election campaign climaxed
after SIX weeks - we should live so long...

Saw Farenheit 9-11 and The Corporation - both
are great. Do yourself a favor and see both.

http://www.thecorporation.tv/about/

It is better that F 9-ll and will give you a better idea about how we are all being screwed by
the powers that be.

Posted by: wv on July 1, 2004 12:12 AM

Those of you wondering about Sen. Lindsey Graham, our rep senator... he is a Lt. Col. in the Guard, he is also a lawyer, previously a judge. When Abu Ghraib broke, he promised to get to the top of the chain of command... after the Senate hearing he talked with a radio station in Greenville SC and told them the same thing he said in Washington... that we are not looking at 'abuse' we are looking at torture and murder... that there is worse to come... some of it involving children.

You will recall that shortly after Rummy almost got his neck in a noose, things 'seemed' to quiet down with the press and Rummy started yelling about the digital cameras and then an order went out for no more. Well, things maybe appear to be quiet, but that's how it is when the termites are eating away the foundation of your house, and then one day... well, it's my opinion that folks are getting their ducks in a row... when they spring their trap, they'll catch their prey.

Graham came from humble beginnings... he is not wealthy... he is protective of the military and he actually is 'one of them' --- he will not stand by and watch a few troops take the blame for what now appears to have been policy.

I write him at least once a week complaining about something or another. He never fails to reply and offer an explanation, whether it is contrary to my opinion or not (which it often it!) I posted his letter on Negroponte on the last thread. He was up front in saying he under- stood my reservations about Negroponte, but reminded me that 93 senators had supported his appointment as US Ambassador to Iraq (the Honduros matter didn't come up this time he explained as it had come up before the foreign relations committee at the time of his appointment as US Ambassador to United Nations.

Graham is not a Neocon... he is conservative and he is a South Carolina Republican, whatever that may mean today. It is my belief that he will follow the Abu Ghraib matter to its conclusion. Of course, he may look behind only to find that he is alone, except for a handful. I don't know about that... but I would 'stake the farm' on his pledge to Abu Ghraib and the military.

Namaste

Posted by: Jo on July 1, 2004 12:14 AM

WV,
Welcome back! I was just getting ready to send the marines looking for you! Hope you had a good time in Canada... how does it look as a possibility of a 'new home' if things don't work out in November?

-------------

To all: my take on the turn over of documents on the 28th is that 'nothing' changed except for the departure of Paul Bremer --- I posted Truthout's editorial upthread, and here's Robert Fisk's take on the sham --- two excerpts, the beginning and the end... you have to go to the link to get the middle!
-------
The Handover: Restoration of Iraqi Sovereignty - or Alice in Wonderland?
By Robert Fisk
Independent UK

Tuesday 29 June 2004

So in the end, America's enemies set the date. The handover of "full sovereignty" was secretly brought forward so that the ex-CIA intelligence officer who is now "Prime Minister" of Iraq could avoid another bloody offensive by America's enemies. What is supposed to be the most important date in Iraq's modern history was changed ­ like a birthday party ­ because it might rain on Wednesday.

Pitiful is the word that comes to mind. Here we were, handing "full sovereignty" to the people of Iraq ­ "full", of course, providing we forget the 160,000 foreign soldiers whom the Prime Minister, Iyad Allawi, has apparently asked to stay in Iraq, "full" providing we forget the 3,000 US diplomats in Baghdad who will constitute the largest US embassy in the world ­ without even telling the Iraqi people that we had changed the date.

Few, save of course for the Iraqis, understood the cruellest paradox of the event. For it was the new Iraqi Foreign Minister ­ should we not put his title, too, into quotation marks? ­ who chose to leak the "bringing forward" of sovereignty in Iraq at the Nato summit in Turkey. Thus was this new and unprecedented date in modern Iraqi history announced not in Baghdad but in the capital of the former Ottoman empire which once ruled Iraq. Alice in Wonderland could not have improved on this. The looking-glass reflects all the way from Baghdad to Washington. In its savage irony Ibsen might have done justice to the occasion. After all, what could have been more familiar than Allawi's appeal to Iraqis to fight "the enemies of the people".

Power was ritually handed over in legal documents. The new government was sworn in on the Koran. The US proconsul, Paul Bremer, formally shook hands with Mr Allawi and boarded his C130 to fly home, guarded by special forces men in shades.

-----

The Western occupying powers have left behind a raft of dubious legislation. Much of it allows Western companies to suck up the profits of reconstruction ­ an issue over which the Iraqis had no choice ­ and many people in the country have no interest in continuing Mr Bremer's occupation laws. No one, for example, is likely to spend a month in jail for driving without a licence. But why should US and other Western businesses have legal immunity from Iraqi law? When a British or American mercenary shoots dead an Iraqi, he cannot be taken to an Iraqi court.

But Mr Allawi relies upon these same mercenaries. Which is why, sadly and inevitably, he and his government will fail. The insurgency now has a life of its own ­ and a plan. If it can continue to maintain an independence struggle for nationalists within the Sunni Muslim areas north and west of Baghdad, then the Sunnis may also claim that they have the right to form Iraq's first independent, post-American government.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/063004D.shtml

Posted by: Jo on July 1, 2004 12:38 AM

Here is an interesting letter written by Abraham Lincoln (Nov. 21, 1864 to Col. William F. Elkins):

"I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and cuases me to tremble for the safety of my country. As a result of the war, corporations have been enthroned, and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed.

I feel at this moment more anxiety for the safety of my country than ever before, even in the midst of war.
-------------
I recall reading this a few years ago, but I never noticed his reference to "as a result of the war". Could that be the war in Iraq?

I think I would like to read the entire letter, not just an excerpt from it. This is so scary. Will report back.

Posted by: Cliss on July 1, 2004 01:24 AM

In my part of the world it is still June, for a few more hours. With all the bad news we get I wanted to tell you about some good things that happened this past month, some of them in the last week and some in the last 24 hrs.

Some three weeks ago my husband's heart rhythm 'flipped' out of sinus into afib and the docs couldn't get it back with a shock, followed by meds... 'til today, when the 2nd shock flipped it back (tVenus D ?); yesterday my sister (in her 50s) who has had difficulties with job and home for the past nine months was offered her dream job as live-in nanny for newborn twins, solving a variety of problems and increasing her present salary three-fold; Pallas 18 published her first article for astroworld and managed to enjoy her vacation in spite of Dubya's drama; my father reconsidered his decision not to leave his nest of past 19 years and in three weeks will be living 15 mins away; Dave (astroworld) found a job; Morgana found an alternative to surgery!; my son-in-law found a non-traveling job, so he can share more of the child-rearing burden; we are having a bumper crop in blue berries, enough for the birds, the deer and the neighbors! And tomorrow, July is off to a great start, as my youngest grand says he's going to jump off the diving board and swim to the side, without the ski belt he's been using all week.

So, while June has been difficult for the Bushies and July looks even rockier, the world is looking pretty good from my little bubble... hope the view from yours is too.

Namaste

Posted by: Jo on July 1, 2004 02:10 AM

Awesome Jo!

Posted by: Pat C on July 1, 2004 02:26 AM

Thank you, Jo... it is a lovely summary. Blessed Be.

Posted by: JoannOregon on July 1, 2004 03:29 AM

Jo, be sure and keep that summary in a journal for the spring and summer of '04 and recheck it in 2012. That was awesome.

Posted by: Sally on July 1, 2004 04:13 AM

Jo,


It's nice to hear of all your positive things to give thanks for. And by the way, I am proud to say the "vacation" article I wrote was the second
published article of mine by Sally. If you look up to the left (of course) you will find it under
"guest author".

Meanwhile, I'm surprised to hear of your husband's fibrilating and I'm saying MEM HEY SHIN
for Jo's husband, and if you can get him to , he should say these words too.

Everywhere I've ever lived there has been the sound of morning doves cooing. I love their soft call. Today I discovered a dove and her mate made my carpot their new home which explains why I've been hearing them a little more clearly than usual. They were busily building a nest together flying back and forth to the top of a cabinet and sitting on eggs. I thought "well, that's Venus Direct" and that it was rather lovely.

Posted by: Pallas18 on July 1, 2004 04:20 AM

Sally,

I was wondering if Michael Moore's F9/11 could have an impact of Bush's being re-selected. It seems that this film is really opening everyone's eyes to this administration's antics. Would this be shown by the tNeptune inconjunct to tSaturn and the nSun conjunction in his chart?

(Neptune ruling film)

Posted by: Viki on July 1, 2004 05:34 AM

Movin' right along... ;O)

* US: Supreme Court Rules Against bush, Reaffirms Prisoners’ Rights

..."Every single dictatorship which arbitrarily detains people says it's for national security," Fellner says. "The court is saying, 'You can't just wave this magic word--national security, war on terror, whatever--& suddenly eviscerate all the due-process protections that previously existed. And you can't simply lock people up someplace else, like in Guantanamo, & say, 'Aha, now we've escaped the court's scrutiny.' It's a very strong affirmation of the rule of law."...

...The Supreme Court rulings apparently caught the bush [regime] by surprise. The Voice of America reports that an internal Pentagon document anticipated decisions in favor of the bush [regime] and had only prepared a media strategy based on such rulings. ... http://www.truthnews.net/month/2004060128.htm

Posted by: JoannOregon on July 1, 2004 05:38 AM

Susan,

Did you know that the fundamentalist fatalist think that China and it’s one million strong army are going to be in on the last big battle at Armageddon? Now if you were “sick and twisted like the Repugs, how would you make that happen?

Posted by: Jill G on July 1, 2004 05:56 AM

Eye Opener from the link below. Halliburton the corporation is running this country in more ways than we had imagined.

The entire article is well worth reading.

The connection between Halliburton and the Bush family is not only a business connection that goes back three or even four generations but is also a connection by intermarriage of the principles, Prescott Bush to the daughter of George Herbert Walker, who was the company which recently changed its name to Halliburton

They always made their money through armaments, oil, and investment banking. Not only did they supply money for Hitler's war machine; the money went to buy armaments (from them) for Hitler's war.

And they've done it again, everyone knows it, and no one stops it. Junior starts the war, buys armaments from his and his father's company, the eleventh largest armament supplier including Bradley tanks, and his family and he (through a not so blind private trust) become richer.

He said he was going to run the country like a corporation and he has. A corporation is not interested in the well being of its' employees but only in its bottom line.

Lou Dobbs reported today that in the last three years corporation profits have risen to 96% while
worker raises have been 4.5%

Who will stop them? Not the 4th estate, the media which has been downsized to the ownership of a few corporations including G.E., a major munitions manufacturer which is benefiting from this war through their armaments and electric division.

There are only a handful in Congress making any noise about it.

Read the article, and thanks to whoever first linked to it above.

http://www.gv.net/~edconco/Where_is_the_Money.html

Posted by: Pallas18 on July 1, 2004 06:38 AM

It's sad isn't it Pallas but this is very old news
The Bush family and friends have been robbing us blind since before WWII, actually it goes back to very late 1800 early 1900. Herbert Walker actually was part of a business partner of Samuel Bush (George Great grandfather) Read this by Mr. McFadden spoken on the floor of Congress in 1934.
The Bushes are just one of the theives in this country. The families of the Robber Barons still thrive.

http://home.hiwaay.net/~becraft/mcfadden.html

Posted by: Sally on July 1, 2004 08:50 AM


...the daily mislead....worth a read...

http://www.misleader.org/daily_mislead/Read.asp?fn=df06302004.html

Posted by: wv on July 1, 2004 02:11 PM


Blumenthal's take on Cheney....t'aint pretty!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,4960596-103677,00.html

Posted by: wv on July 1, 2004 02:15 PM


"anonymous" outed....author of "Imperial Hubris" is CIA agent...

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000557752

Posted by: wv on July 1, 2004 03:15 PM


don't know whether this was posted whilst I
was away, but it is worht a read....

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/printer_061804A.shtml

Posted by: wv on July 1, 2004 04:43 PM

Jill G - yes I am very familiar with the pre-millenalism theological beliefs, which include the Rapture-Armageddon battle in the Middle East which will draw the "great beasts" from China and Russia. I know there are true believers and those who are using those philosophies (not really believing but manipulating those who do for political gain, which I believe includes bush and his entire PNAC gang of thugs).

I believe that what they are hoping to do is set up is a confrontation with China in the months before the election. I believe they are betting that they can stage manage the situation so that shrub will come off looking like a brinksmanship diplomat a la Kennedy during the Cuban missile crisis. This would be the perfect scenario in which such a crisis could precipitate cancellation-postponement of the elections, rather than a staged terrorist attack (which I believe they feel would be risky given their shattered credibility and greater public awareness of all their disgusting, dirty doings). I also think they are confident that China, in the midst of an economic renaissance, will not "push the button", but I think they're very wrong about this just as they've been wrong about everything else. Everything they've touched has been an unmitigated disaster, but I think they're so power hunger and greedy that they'll bet their last peso on a situation (soon in the making) like this to allow them to continue.

Posted by: Susan on July 1, 2004 04:53 PM

http://www.tomdispatch.com/index.mhtml?emx=x&pid=1519

Stephen Shalom, a King George quiz for July 4th

On this July 4th, not a week after our regime of plunderers, having done their best to strip down Iraq economically (as they are also strip-mining our own country), handed a hollow "sovereignty" to Iyad Allawi, the leader of a former Iraqi terrorist organization, it's worth rereading that inspiriting document, the Declaration of Independence. Without a teacher looking over your shoulder, consider the words of the men who founded these United States as they reject an earlier King George who had inflicted on them "a history of repeated injuries and usurpations," who had "affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power." Let yourself be stirred by the thought that to secure the rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, "governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from! the consent of the governed." But don't let me quote it to you. Go look at it yourself, and read those first two paragraphs aloud.

Then take a moment to read a bit of the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002, the degraded and shameful document of complaints, caveats, and lies by which a pusillanimous Congress supinely surrendered to our President its power to declare war and so let him lead us, unhindered, into our present pass. (Note the crucial role in the document of Iraqi weapons of mass destruction -- the risk that Saddam's regime would "either employ those weapons to launch a surprise attack against the United States or its Armed Forces or provide them to international terrorists who would do so" -- and of "terrorist organizations," especially al-Qaeda, "known to be in Iraq," and of the linkage by proximity of the 9/11 attacks and Saddam's Iraq.)

Then try your hand at Stephen Shalom's July 4th quiz below which combines parts of the Declaration of Independence issued against one King George with events of our moment re: another. Should any of you then want a three-color, one-sheet (two sided) version of this quiz, suitable for handing out at July 4th events, you'll find a link to it at the very end of this dispatch (the last by the way until Tuesday July 6). Gather your strength. Tom

Down with King George! A July 4th Quiz By Stephen R. Shalom

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

1. How has the current King George shown his "decent respect for the opinions of mankind"?

More...

Posted by: Pat C on July 1, 2004 05:02 PM

Susan, yes.

Posted by: Pat C on July 1, 2004 05:03 PM

Gah, my girlfriend is in Cheng Du, China until August teaching English.

Posted by: Dommael on July 1, 2004 05:19 PM


going through my old mail I found this...not
surprising...

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/printer_062204A.shtml

Posted by: wv on July 1, 2004 05:50 PM

Dommael, can she come home?


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5333896/

We're paying $45 for a case of soda.

Posted by: Pat C on July 1, 2004 05:51 PM

Not before August 8th, Pat C. I'm sure she'll be fine. She's getting a degree in Mandarin and the program is through Washington State University. She's with a group of students, if anything too crazy happense I'm sure they'll be sent home but hopefully it won't come to that. Probably the more urgent issue will be minimizing my tendency to work myself into a frenzied state of panic while she's away...
~D

Posted by: Dommael on July 1, 2004 07:15 PM

Here's yet another article on the current troop build-up in the So. China Sea. This time, it's jet fighters returning to stations in South Korea.

http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=23060

Posted by: Susan on July 1, 2004 08:11 PM

A wonderful Counterpunch article on our fearful leader.

http://www.counterpunch.com/bageant07012004.html

Posted by: susan on July 1, 2004 08:54 PM


we've won!

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/printer_0702041.shtml

Posted by: wv on July 1, 2004 09:29 PM


the war we're losing - Pat Buchanan

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=39199

Posted by: wv on July 1, 2004 10:20 PM

Sally,

Re: Ownership of the Federal Reserve

Yes, you've posted that site about McFadden before, and so I wanted to find the connection of
dimson ancestry to the dozen original bank founders of the Federal Reserve Bank. I didn't see any name of Dresser, Walker, dimson but I did
find Bechtel!

Federal Reserve Directors: A Study of Corporate and Banking Influence

The J. Henry Schroder Banking Company chart encompasses the entire history of the twentieth century, embracing as it does the program (Belgium Relief Commission) which provisioned Germany from 1915-1918 and dissuaded Germany from seeking peace in 1916; financing Hitler in 1933 so as to make a Second World War possible; backing the Presidential campaign of Herbert Hoover ; and even at the present time, having two of its major executives of its subsidiary firm, Bechtel Corporation serving as Secretary of Defense and Secretary of State in the Reagan Administration.

http://mindcontrolforums.com/fr3.htm

(odd name for researching banks)

I, as I'm sure most, always thought the Federal Reserve was a govt. banking system, but it's a private consortium of originally a dozen banks: Mellon, Rockefeller, Warburg, Morgan....(haven't found the rest of the recognizable names -

(heh heh - I dated Cortland Pierpont Morgan in High School - nice guy - shucks - missed opportunities - just think I could be hobnobbing with dimson - yecccchh - I'd be likely to do what his father did to the Prime Minister of Japan :)

Posted by: on July 1, 2004 10:40 PM

Oops.
Sorry Sally and all, that was me up above

Posted by: Pallas18 on July 1, 2004 10:40 PM

I was over at Rense's place and ran across this (I would never have gotten to it on my own as I don't go to Faux). Very interesting.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0%2C2933%2C123682%2C00.html

Posted by: shylurker on July 1, 2004 11:09 PM

Jo, I'll bet that all the "attention" you've been visiting upon Lindsey Graham has had impact. Not only do you ask him to be accountable, but you also provide him with the documentation he needs to recognize a problem and proceed. Take a few bows, my friend!

Posted by: shylurker on July 1, 2004 11:11 PM


From the counterpunch article Susan linked above.
(guys it helps if you put a few sentences or the gist of the article)-

"Supposedly, if you put live frogs in a kettle of cold water on the stove, then raise the temperature very slowly, the frogs will eventually boil to death without trying to escape. I don't know if that is true, but it does seem the perfect, if sometimes overused, analogy for what we see going on around us in America. My guess is that we frogs are about medium done for. Having never cooked frogs or lived in a fascist state, I am not a practiced judge of these things, but I'm quite sure the end result of either is in no way desirable for frogs or human beings."

more-

http://www.counterpunch.com/bageant07012004.html

Posted by: Pallas18 on July 1, 2004 11:50 PM

Now, Pallas, you'll never perfect your ability to click on a link, scan the article, assess if you want to or have already read it and click back before the page finishes loading with that attitude! How else are progressive cyberjunkies supposed to recognize each other? (other than by observing each other's enormously overdeveloped mouse~clicking index fingers?)
;-)~D

Posted by: Dommael on July 2, 2004 12:16 AM

This is excellent news, just excellent!!!!

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=584&e=3&u=/nm/20040701/pl_nm/campaign_florida_dc

Florida Must Release List of Ineligible Voters

By Jane Sutton

MIAMI (Reuters) - Florida must release a list of suspected felons it wants purged from voter registration rolls so the names can be checked to avoid errors that wrongly disenfranchised voters in the state's disputed 2000 election, a state judge ruled on Thursday.

- More -

Posted by: Laurie on July 2, 2004 12:25 AM

Dommael,

You are so funny. Yup you got me. I don;t scan.
I read every word, as some who will attest to finding me online sometimes at 3 AM. :D

Posted by: Pallas18 on July 2, 2004 01:22 AM

I've found my inner alien. I am listening to Moby and Public Enemy performing a song called Make Love, F**k War. I don't know what kind of music ya'll listen to, but this is like the caviar of activist music. Moby is known through his involvement in Move On, and Chuck D is, well, Chuck D. This is fantastic. I think there's a new genre of music as a result of *ush's term.

"Power to the People 'cause the People Want Peace.
~D

Posted by: on July 2, 2004 01:28 AM

CNN is asking if Saddam should have been able to have a lawyer during his trial. 76% have checked yes! I'm so pleased. Maybe we are getting back to some of our basic principles.

Hmmmm, maybe I misread that. Better to re-check.

Posted by: shylurker on July 2, 2004 01:41 AM

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/070204J.shtml

Scandals seen as hallmark of White House under pressure

The vice president upbraids a senator on the floor of the chamber for what he calls personal attacks, then ends the conversation with a transitive verb straight from the barnyard.

A chief architect of the Iraq war refers to journalists covering the conflict as cowardly rumor-mongers during a congressional hearing, and is forced to apologize the following day.

The president himself finds it necessary to be questioned by a special prosecutor probing the outing of a covert CIA operative by someone in the administration bent on political retaliation.

The White House, faced with a prisoner abuse scandal that won't go away, is forced into the ultimate embarrassment of a Clinton-style document dump - only to discover that the new material only fuels the controversy.

Washington-watchers have seen these tropisms before, and they are not symptoms of health. They are the hallmarks of an administration under increasing pressure, and starting to stagger and stumble under the accumulated weight.

Indeed, the best news for President George W. Bush in the recent flood of poll numbers is the fact that he is still essentially even with Democratic opponent John Kerry despite all the recent setbacks and missteps.

But Bush's good news begins and ends there. A new CBS- New York Times poll puts his approval rating at 42 percent, the lowest of his presidency.

More...

Posted by: Pat C on July 2, 2004 02:13 AM

psychic hotline, breaking...

it just occurred to me that i should log on astroworld and share this flash insight (brought to me by my spirit guide guido):

something is wrong with richard clarke's acceptance of the *entire* responsibility for the saudi's leaving so quickly after 911. this was used to attack F911 as though moore had made a mistake. most people who see the film or even those presented with the scenario know that clarke didn't make this call on his own without higherups initiating it. my guide guido tells me that somebody got to clarke and 'facilitated' the statement as a hedge in the larger picture and as a means to go after moore. guido goes on to say that, troubled by his perfidity, clarke will eventually blurt out the truth are some timely kharma-driven point for all involved.

oh, guido, don't leave me......he's gone

------------

pat c. thanks for all the well thought-out posts!

Posted by: mike on July 2, 2004 03:24 AM

Just got back from seeing F9-11.

People were hissing when Bu$h was on the screen.

A manifestation of the reptile brain?!?
~D

Posted by: on July 2, 2004 05:29 AM

If I,
Were able to ask Al Gore one question.
It would be,
"What in the hell was up with that scene where none of the Senators would stand up for the black voters in Florida?"
~D

Posted by: on July 2, 2004 06:22 AM

Mike, my pleasure!!

Poster at 6:22, I'd be right there with you on that question!

Posted by: Pat C on July 2, 2004 02:15 PM


Bob Fisk is right on again....

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/printer_070204E.shtml

Posted by: wv on July 2, 2004 02:27 PM

Don't know who the poster was with the question about why no one in the senate would sign the protests brought by the Congressional Black Chamber members during the electoral college ratification, but in an earlier post I indicated I believed that Al Gore himself had enjoined Senate dems to not fight the electoral vote or otherwise dispute the vote count. That scene from F/9-11 disturbed me to the core, but I do remember hearing in the aftermath of the election [sic], that Gore had decided that further challenges would have compromised his ability to govern, as he would have been considered illegitimately holding the office. Considering how I have viewed shrub during the past 3-1/2 years, I'm sure he was correct. The difference between dems and repubs, however, is that they would have never shut up about it.

I do find it interesting that even Paul Wellstone, who was in office up until his death in 2002, didn't even sign off on the protest. Frankly, I think that if Gore did indeed ask his fellow democratic senators to 'stand down', he overstepped his responsibility. Not fighting something that is flat-out wrong because it will seemingly make things all nice and peaceful is irresponsible and and a disservice to the people, even if they may not understand or agree. Basically, the entire validity of our representative democracy was damaged by the judical coup by the Supremes and it continues to be damaged every day this banana republic regime continues. In hindsight, Gore probably regrets allowing the outrage to just wash over him at the time. I know I would.

Posted by: Susan on July 2, 2004 03:54 PM

Moon connection

http://www.google.com/search?q=Gorenfeld&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

Posted by: Pat C on July 2, 2004 04:13 PM

That was my post @6:22, I reset the cache on my computer and the moveable type here at Astroworld was reset with it. You'd think Sally's website would have reached the AI stage by now...

Personally, having seen the film, IMO Michael Moore portrayed the Democrats in all their vapid glory (which is almost as damning to the status quo as revealing the nature of Dimson.) A volunteer was registering people to vote outside the theatre when the movie let out and you could tell people were getting riled.

I also found it interesting that MM blacked out the screen for the 9~11 footage. I wonder how much that decision was influenced merely by aesthetics ~ there are still a lot of unanswered questions about what happened that day.
Namaste~
~D

Posted by: Dommael on July 2, 2004 04:32 PM

That was my post @6:22, I reset the cache on my computer and the moveable type here at Astroworld was reset with it. You'd think Sally's website would have reached the AI stage by now...

Personally, having seen the film, IMO Michael Moore portrayed the Democrats in all their vapid glory (which is almost as damning to the status quo as revealing the nature of Dimson.) A volunteer was registering people to vote outside the theatre when the movie let out and you could tell people were getting riled.

I also found it interesting that MM blacked out the screen for the 9~11 footage. I wonder how much that decision was influenced merely by aesthetics ~ there are still a lot of unanswered questions about what happened that day.
Namaste~
~D

Posted by: Dommael on July 2, 2004 04:32 PM

Great, now I'm posting twice. I'm going to be meditating to lower my blood pressure now (maybe I'll finish this coffee first...)
~D

Posted by: Dommael on July 2, 2004 04:33 PM

http://xymphora.blogspot.com/2004/07/fema-in-big-apple.html

Unanswered questions of 9/11

Posted by: Pat C on July 2, 2004 04:37 PM

http://www.boingboing.net/2004/06/30/thousands_volunteer_.html

Thousands volunteer to spy on fellow citizens
Time has good news for nosy, racist jerks: the Dept. of Homeland Security is enlisting 400,000 people to report on suspicious behavior in public areas.
After the [training] session in Little Rock, two newly initiated Highway Watch members sat down for the catered barbecue lunch. The truckers, who haul hazardous material across 48 states, explained how easy it is to spot "Islamics" on the road: just look for their turbans. Quite a few of them are truck drivers, says William Westfall of Van Buren, Ark. "I'll be honest. They know they're not welcome at truck stops. There's still a lot of animosity toward Islamics." Eddie Dean of Fort Smith, Ark., also has little doubt about his ability to identify Muslims: "You can tell where they're from. You can hear their accents. They're not real clean people."

That kind of prejudice is hard to undo, but it's a shame Beatty's slide show did not mention that in the U.S., it's almost always Sikhs who wear turbans, not Muslims. Last year a Sikh truck driver who was wearing a turban was shot twice while standing near his tractor trailer in Phoenix, Ariz. He survived the attack, which police are investigating as a hate crime.

Posted by: Pat C on July 2, 2004 04:52 PM

Dommael, I think that the black screen during the 9/11 attack footage was effective film-making. Hearing the horror rather than viewing tapes of the airliners hitting the buildings - and we've seen the replays of that footage ad naseum since that day - was an effective way of focusing attention. A sort of LISTEN TO ME. I HAVE SOMETHING YOU NEED TO HEAR. NOW PAY ATTENTION. After that, you see footage that has seldom made its way into the mainstream.

Seeing those images of the jets ramming into the Twin Towers has hynotized people. Very few people have asked the kinds of probitive questions that needed to be asked that day because the visual impact of the tape replays overtook the the rational, reasonable questioning that should have followed. All the inconsistencies, all the statistically improbable occurrences, the cooincidences, all the things we should have been asking, were effectively silenced by repeated replays of those airliners hitting those buildings. From the moment it happened, the media, to the government's benefit, kept slamming people with those pictures such that they became almost inescapable. The brainwashing was so effective that it was almost inescapable until those images started fading off our tv screens and out of our print media. Only after the images started disappearing were so many of us able to start shaking off the miasma of the media/government Svengalis and start asking questions and becoming open to the horrible answers. I think had Moore put those images in the film, they would have been like a post-hypnotic suggestion to people. The moviegoers wouldn't have been able to focus on anything else the movie had to say after that point so completely would their minds and emotions have been taken back to that day.

Posted by: Susan on July 2, 2004 05:17 PM

Excellent Susan! Thankyou!

Posted by: Pat C on July 2, 2004 05:22 PM

Susan, don't forget also that we were warned over and over about keeping our mouths shut. Some comic (wasn't it Bill Maher?) was fired, journalists were mugged and of course Comical Ari and all the other Repugs on the tv were telling us to shut up. So, not only were we terrorized by planes flying into buildings and leading to the deaths of thousands of people but we were also heavily warned to keep silent about asking any questions.

The Sikhs: In the immediate aftermath of 9/11, some clown in West Sacramento drove his pickup truck into the Sikh temple yard and jumped in the fountain. We can easily imagine what he did in the fountain. That required this group of Sikhs--who could barely afford it--to scrape together sufficient funds to send the required delegation to India to fetch some new holy water.

Certainly I recognize the above anecdote pales when you consider the sikhs and others who were shot as a result of ignorantand revenge-driven yahoos. It does illustrate the pathetic casting-about that ignorance and frustration breed.

Posted by: shylurker on July 2, 2004 05:59 PM

I agree, Susan, that artistically blacking out that scene was a genius move. I don't think anyone who has seen F9-11 will forget the images (when sight was restored)of all of the paper flying around the streets after the impact. The thought I had was that those papers are us. The souls of innocent people flitting around, lost, charred, chaotic, everywhere. The attack on the twin towers is a psychic scar and should be treated with reverence, not weilded like a hammer as has been by the networks.

HOWEVER, as many times as we've all seen the plane footage, it's possible that there are clues behind 9~11 right there in plain sight that have been subtly missed in that footage. Cops say that you can have a dozen witnesses that all saw something but will all report differently. We all think we have those tower impact scenes memorized, but a careful review of the firsthand tapes might surprise you.

I'm not saying Moore made a mistake, far from it. We've got little scandal booby~traps set to spring all over this White House. All I'm saying is that at some time in the future people may look back at this film and the fact that the impact scene was omitted visually *at this time* may be more revealing than is currently appreciated. As Mike's astral guide, Guido, speculated on the facilitating of Richard Clarke's statement as a hedge in the larger picture, so I'm speculating that there's more to come regarding videos of September 11th. Moore's movie effectively sets the scene on the swirling events around that day, but we haven't seen the last of that footage yet. Nope. As much as you saw it in the months after the attacks, have you seen it lately? Fatigue, or...?

The public is being re-educated and I think we're being cleverly set up. This film isn't the last straw, it's the prelude.
~D

Posted by: Dommael on July 2, 2004 06:19 PM

One more note and then I've got to vanquish the tall grass in the backyard.

News footage in the immediate aftermath of the WTC hits, shows people talking about hearing bombs explode. And, of course, there are those fascinating film clips of the towers coming down floor by floor by floor (they call it pancaking), just as happens with planned demolitions of tall buildings.

Now, those films are being resurrected and more people are talking. But they surely didn't want us to talk then. It's a shame that even Daschle agreed we should not linger too long nor too hard on the events of 9-11. And it's also interesting that one of the anthrax envelopes was addressed to Daschle.

We've just got to do our best to keep such things from happening again.

Posted by: shylurker on July 2, 2004 06:32 PM

"Time has good news for nosy, racist jerks: the Dept. of Homeland Security is enlisting 400,000 people to report on suspicious behavior in public areas."


Doesn't this remind anybody of anything?

What's next? Kristnacht?

Posted by: Pallas18 on July 2, 2004 07:10 PM

oop , it posted before I could correct.

Kristalnacht. The night of the breaking of windows
and places where the "undesirables" lived.

Posted by: Pallas18 on July 2, 2004 07:12 PM

Worth a read

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/

and in this case, a reread.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2003/0304.marshall.html

Posted by: Pat C on July 2, 2004 08:18 PM

Pallas, it could happen.

Posted by: Pat C on July 2, 2004 08:48 PM

I saw F911 last night myself and although I really didn't want to go, I went in hopes that I would learn something. And I did. The scene with Gore and the lack of a single senator brought me to tears. I'd like to know what the heck he was thinking too. I am sure he regrets it, from the temperature of his speeches since then, but sheesh. That was terrible. It was also good to hear from our troops and from Flint Michigan. Michael Moore is a true american..
M

Posted by: mimi on July 2, 2004 08:58 PM

As you've no doubt noticed, one of the hobby horses I've been riding around on here is, "Why let Saddam testify?"

Well, do read this:

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/variety/20040701/va_ne_al/sounds_of_silence_3

Posted by: shylurker on July 2, 2004 09:21 PM

*%@?#~!!!
~D

Posted by: Dommael on July 2, 2004 09:24 PM

My understanding about the events in Florida is that the matter of the dispute/recount etc. should have gone to the House of Representatives, where it would have been resolved by a step-by-step procedure which would have taken weeks. But since the 'American public' could not withstand such trauma (you know 'instant' results are what we are used to --- before the polls in CA close, right? and, who got us used to that?) so, James Baker the mafia mouthpiece decreed that Bush was the winner and the SCOTUS should make it binding, which the five crows in black did... bloodless coup d'etat...

It was not that Gore asked Demos to stand down... it was trying to follow procedure, which as previous President of the Senate, he was quite familar with... it's the Repugs who disregarded the 'little' matter of legality and wrested the presidency (or in this case, crowned the boy emperor)...

We should have taken to the streets then, but Demos are too polite... hopefully, we learned a lesson. We shall see.

Namaste

Posted by: Jo on July 2, 2004 09:57 PM

http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/wolf.blitzer.reports/

Is the U.S. economy improving?

Yes
49%
51687 votes

No
51%
53441 votes

Posted by: Pat C on July 2, 2004 10:26 PM

That's right, Jo... The Constitution states that in a disputed national election, the state Supreme Court resolves it (which the Florida SC did!), but the buschie-boyz were having none of that! If the State SC cannot resolve the matter, then it goes to the US Congressional House of Representatives (ideally reps of THE PEOPLE). There's no room for the US Supreme Court is, is. It was a Judicial coup d'etat. One small word for The People (& only a small word), they literally could not believe what occurred before their eyes (neptunian regime). It takes some time to react... enuf shock must wear off imo.

Posted by: JoannOregon on July 2, 2004 10:46 PM


...Fiore on top of it as usual....

http://www.sfgate.com/comics/fiore/

Posted by: wv on July 2, 2004 10:49 PM

Jo, the SCOTUS stopped the vote re-counts in the disputed counties (I think there were under a half-dozen or so counties). I don't remember at any point during the voting controversy at the Florida state level that the U.S. House of Representatives had any legal standing in the matter.

If I remember correctly, their decision was based on the fact that only a limited re-count (in the affected counties) was being carried out and not the entire state vote. The democrats had decided that a re-count of all votes cast in Florida would be too time consuming, and they focused instead on recounting only the counties where they knew - or strongly suspected - irregularities had occurred. It was on this basis that they were given the go ahead by the Florida State Supreme Court to proceed on that limited basis. Baker, Olsen et al, arguing for Bush, maintained in their Supreme Court challenge of the state court's decision, that the limited recount was biased, and was more likely than not to produce distorted results in Gore's favor, and the recounting was halted by the SCOTUS.

Legal eagles, pundits, etc. have argued that had the Gore camp insisted on a statewide recount of all votes cast (including the absentee and military ballots), the final recount probably would have withstood any legal challenges, including a hearing before the Supreme Court. Basically, the Gore camp badly handled the whole voting irregularity/recount issue and left the recount open, by virture of its limited recount of those votes in areas where he would have been most likely to have received them in the first place, to the subsequent challenges by the republicans.

Posted by: Susan on July 2, 2004 10:51 PM

Isn't this an interesting twist on the full moon today:

Dean Supporters Vow to Fight for VP Spot

By ROSS SNEYD, Associated Press Writer

MONTPELIER, Vt. - Message from a group of Howard Dean (news - web sites) supporters to John Kerry (news - web sites): Pick the one-time presidential candidate as your running mate or face a floor fight at the Democratic National Convention

~ snip ~

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=694&e=1&u=/ap/20040702/ap_on_el_pr/dean_veepstakes

Posted by: Morgana on July 2, 2004 11:23 PM

Everyone has shared so many meaningful comments, theories, reactions to F9/11 here. Thank you.

Reading the above reminded me of how impacting and effective were the scenes of Black Congresspeople protesting Black American voter disenfranchisement. It was heartbreaking but thrilling in the way they stood up - and I'm SO GLAD it's being publically viewed all over the world (the entire film actually).

A few comments about the blackout scene (which my husband says took a lot of guts to start a film with, but it got our attention, its intended objective.)

I personally felt that the blackout scene had to do with understatement and sensitivity which, in making its point quietly, can underline horror much more effectively. In this case, the film began by letting the blackness speak to us rather reveal it face (like the "supernatural forces we both revere and fear).

It also showed sensitivity to the viewer who, like myself, may have braced for horror and was relieved that the visuals were blacked out. This sensitivity is especially well placed in regard to the 9/11 families who may view the film.

Lastly, a black screen, backed with sounds of sirens and verbal anguish, slowly giving way to overlapping scenes of swirling ashes, smoke, refuse said many things to me. (1) It was visually aethetic. (2) It evoked the blackout, the shock, the feeling of being "in the dark" felt by those who were there. (3) It created an association with the horror and stark black and white realism of the footage of WWII and concentration camps. (4) It created a sense of everything dissolving and going up in smoke and ashes as does happen when we die (especially by cremation) and which is our prelude to the great unknown -- the afterlife - a place of peace, love and acceptance to many - but, ultimately, unknown. The effect is to open the heart, mind and emotions to the place where horror and sadness merge with mercy and the thrilling feeling of being released to a better place, one of hope, possibility, glory. It was spiritual and it WAS reverent, Dommael.

Posted by: Sharon Katz on July 2, 2004 11:24 PM

Having just heard an NPR report about this being the 40th anniversary of the Civil Rights Act, I wanted to say that segregation is another association of b & w, as well as good & evil, polarized thinking, extremism, etc. But the grey of ashes, well that is what's left when the rest is burnt away and we are all left broken down into the same compound. (I think that all this is coming from Venus direct in my 12th house of film & spirituality, etc.).

Posted by: Sharon Katz on July 2, 2004 11:59 PM

Morgana,
That move by Deaniacs is indeed a twist on this full moon (in Capricorn) today! I have felt all along that this Demo Conv might be more like the old-style ones, which actually were conventions! Not simply rubber stamps. No matter the outcome, it will, imo, be refreshing to see some demonstrations within the Convention hall for various candidates, to see some return to actual involvement by the delegates...

How are you feeling these days, Morgana? If you get the full moon piece finished fine, if not, that's fine too... we will wait for your music when it comes... meanwhile, hope you are moving gently through these days.

Namaste

Posted by: Jo on July 3, 2004 12:18 AM

I received an email from ActforChange with regard to pending legislation (see excerpt below). You can go to the link below if you would like to take action by contacting your representative...

----------

Within the next few days, Congress will vote on a bipartisan proposal to protect the freedom to read threatened by the USA PATRIOT Act.

When the PATRIOT Act was rushed through Congress soon after 9/11, one of the little noticed provisions was section 215 which severely expands the scope of materials the FBI can access with a warrant from the secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance court. In short, the FBI can demand that bookstores and libraries hand over lists of all of their patrons and what books they’ve purchased or borrowed. Adding insult to injury, it also prevents bookstore owners and librarians from telling patrons they're being watched or searched.

The proposed amendment would prohibit the Department of Justice from using any money in their budget to search a library or bookseller using the wide-sweeping powers granted under section 215 of the PATRIOT Act. The amendment would restore and protect the privacy and First Amendment rights of library and bookstore patrons which were in place before the USA PATRIOT Act.

http://www.workingforchange.com/activism/action.cfm?itemid=17226

Posted by: Jo on July 3, 2004 12:21 AM

Hey Jo, thanks. Trying to be done with my day job and censoring my article as I revise it. It is so easy to rant with the whacko's running the country. Gotta strip out all of the "I think this and that" but stick to the facts maam. :) Nothing seditious (?)

Posted by: Morgana on July 3, 2004 12:27 AM

First the State Supreme Court, then the House of Reps.

Posted by: JoannOregon on July 3, 2004 12:37 AM

Sally,
I have been remiss in thanking you for this fine article, especially the info on the foundation chart which is wonderful research on your part - I don't know how you track all this info you constantly come up with... surely you have enough for books! Anyway, I could not agree with you more about Bush and USA waterloo being Iraq...

Your quotations always fit your articles, but I am stumped this time... I didn't see the Biden piece... what is he talking about? The handover? Surely he knows it is a sham!

I love the title of your article!

Pat C. posted link to Josh Marshall's most recent piece on Biden... I must say I was shocked by his comments... particularly the one about 8-9 men in a room being disturbed by the screaming of a man in the hall, and he (Biden) goes into the hall and beats the @#$% out of the guy... what kind of resolution is this? Is it just me, are does he sound more than a little aggressive, and similar to the Neocon POV... I realize there was 'nuance' in his comments, but I must say I am glad he is no longer on Kerry's 'short list' for VP...

As for Marshall's comments in the Washington Monthly, re the Neocons and chaos being their objective --- many of us have felt that since the invasion was launched.

Posted by: Jo on July 3, 2004 12:45 AM

I have no idea who the person is/people are who host the site, no idea who "Vera" is and so forth. I just goggled this up by typing in "Negroponte Astrology". I thought some of the observations about the overlapping between all the players in the ME debacle, AND the inclusion of Negroponte, was interesting. Hope you'll comment.

http://www.aquilaink.com/secretdiary109.html

Posted by: shylurker on July 3, 2004 01:13 AM

Ya'll please indulge me ~ this is too good:
***
Public Enemy's Chuck D said: "Working with Moby on this theme and project again shows that music can be a universal language of peace. Knowing his great work and concerns of the planet made this project one of like-mindedness and world spirit.

"The song is a request that being a citizen of the world should transcend nationality in the name of peace."

Meanwhile, Moby said: "We do still ostensibly live in a democracy, so my hope is that at some point the people will vocally rise up and let the current leaders know that they've had enough."

Standing for 'Make Love F**k War', the single will be only available on 12" vinyl, but will also feature on the 'Unity' album - the official companion to the 2004 Athens Olympic Games, out July 12.

The album features artists from 15 different countries, including Destiny's Child, Alice Cooper, Macy Gray and Xzibit. All the songs are linked "by a theme of harmony and peace".
***
selected lyrics hopefully not too seditious (laboriously transcribed by Dommael):
rather be sittin' just a gettin' it
power to the people not the governments
capitolists, communists or terrorists
swear to god I don't know the difference
makin' new slaves outta immigrants
wanna know where all the money went
'nother transcript by the goverment
hear the bomb go ~ sent by the President
tell the leaders they gotta feed us
grand theft oil gonna bleed us
new world order doesn't need us
call for peace
better heed us
dictators
human haters
hand on the bomb masturbators
finger on the button infiltrators
make love
f**k war
Peace will save us.

(of course, it's not quite the same without Flavor Flav singing "yeah" in the background, but to hear it is just chilling and musically it's a match made in heaven!)

Namaste~
~D

Posted by: Dommael on July 3, 2004 01:20 AM

In the spirit of fightin' for our freedoms:

http://www.theflasharchive.com/f/f-50.htm

Be advised: It takes a while to load.

Posted by: shylurker on July 3, 2004 01:44 AM

Truthout reports Fl Rep Porter Goss is likely to be named as new CIA head. Trivia question: Porter Goss and Bob Graham were having breakfast with what little known 'bagman' on 9/11 when first reports of disaster came?

-----------

Cheney Cat's Paw, Porter Goss, as CIA Director?
By Ray McGovern
t r u t h o u t | Perspective

Saturday 03 July 2004

There is, thankfully, a remnant of CIA professionals who still put objective analysis above political correctness and career advancement. Just when they thought there were no indignities left for them to suffer, they are shuddering again at press reports that Rep. Porter Goss (R-FL) may soon be their new boss.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/070304A.shtml


Posted by: Jo on July 3, 2004 01:55 AM

Sharon Katz,

You really articulated my feelings about the events - and the moviemaking aspects - more eloquently than I was able to.

I was wanting to indicate that what we needed was to let those horrible visual images die in order to be able to pursue the truth that lay beyond what we were so readily fed during that period. We all died collectively that day in some privately profound way.

But we must move beyond the images. There is truth to reveal and we have to move beyond the shock and the pain and sense of betrayal to a point that we take responsibility for what happens henceforth.

Posted by: Susan on July 3, 2004 03:00 AM

This came to me today and, though I am definitely not a christian, I do think that Mr. Burklo has really hit it on the head with this one - a 4th of July message to Beezlebush.

Feel free to send to anyone you think would appreciate it!

On Fri, 2 Jul 2004, Mr Jim Burklo wrote:

To George: A Declaration
July 4, 2004
By Jim Burklo

In Philadelphia in 1776, a group of Americans drafted a list of complaints against King George. It is worth remembering these complaints today, 228 years later:

"Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,"

George, you got half a million fewer votes than Al Gore in the last election. You are president only because your brother arranged for you to get enough electoral votes in a contested and very close vote in Florida. Is this the "consent of the governed?"

"He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners,"

George, your response to 9/11 was to make it tougher for law-abiding immigrants to stay and feel safe in this country, damaging the very wellspring of energy and creativity that has made America great.

"He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone for the tenure of their offices?‰

George, you propose judges for the federal judiciary on the basis of their opposition to abortion. Isn‚t it time for you to uphold and defend women‚s rights?

"He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance."

George, you have created a huge new bureaucracy to snoop on our people and deprive them of their rights to privacy. How is our security enhanced by your spying on citizens who use our public libraries?

"He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power: For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury: For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:"

George, America was founded on the principle that the government must be subjected to the rule of law, not the rule of the whim of politicians like yourself. You can't keep holding over 10,000 people in military jails abroad without any rights to lawyers or trials. You can't let abuses occur in those jails, like the ones that occurred this past year in Iraq. It is not, nor has it ever been, the American way!

"He is at this time transporting large Armies of
foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy of the Head of a civilized nation."

George, your war in Iraq, fought with your "coalition of the bribed," was an ill-considered adventure that has set back the reputation and
the security of the United States, to say nothing of the damage to life and property. We need a balanced, sustainable, and focused foreign policy that seeks freedom and justice and security for all, and what you did in Iraq works against this goal.

"In every stage of these Oppressions We have
Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people. „

George, it is time for you and the rest of the Bush dynasty to take your place alongside King George in the history books. Let freedom
ring!

Jim Burklo
www.openchristianity.com
minister, Sausalito Presbyterian Church

Posted by: Baraka on July 3, 2004 03:25 AM

Oh, Baraka! Powerful, powerful, indeed! And thanks so much for thinking so highly of us that you send us this remarkable gift.

Posted by: shylurker on July 3, 2004 03:29 AM

Amen Shylurker!
Thank you Baraka... what a timely message. How alike the 2 are...

Posted by: Jo on July 3, 2004 03:38 AM

Baraka, I'd like to meet Mr.Burklo.

I was raised a Christian. My family's European roots are somewhat murky, and I suspect that my family probably have deeper roots in Judaeism based on our names and other aspects that point in that direction.

Notwithstanding, I respect all religions, but I abhor any religion that seeks to impose its superiority over anyone. I just wish that people would think about the rigid dogma and beliefs that form their devotion. How can one perfect god of our idolatry obliterate so completely all other races and peoples who do not believe in the exact same manner?

Posted by: Susan on July 3, 2004 03:41 AM

Susan, thank you. You yourself are very elequent and passionate here in expressing some extremely important ideas. I think what you are saying is that the those images were commercialized and CNNized to the point that they lost some of their meaning (if that could ever happen). In fact, to the point that W tried to use it for his re-election campaign, until he was forced to stop (Sadaam today was quoted as saying that the invasion of Iraq was for Bush's re-election). And you also are expressing that we cannot be stuck there. We have to use those emotions to create a new and better reality. Moore helped us by showing 9/11 in a way that reframed it and even brought healing to it. Am I getting you?

Sharon

Posted by: Sharon Katz on July 3, 2004 03:46 AM

YOU GO, MORIARTY!!!!

* Freedom Means Servitude - Judith Moriarty

I heard the usual mind-numbed fools, calling into C-Span this morning, lauding going to war. They felt that everyone shld do their DUTY by being drafted into the military. Naturally those croaking such insanities, are doing so between breaths of oxygen-taking their heart meds, putting their Depend diapers on, bunion pads, & elastic waist pants! That, or they're calling in from some off-shore island, or foreign resort, where there's no chance that all of this patriotism/nationalism will be visited on them slurp!

Forced servitude or conscription to serve the interests of corpo hucksters, is no longer FREEDOM--but slavery. Either we are a mindless herd to be driven from battlefield to battlefield or INDIVIDUALS, making our own choices as to the days of our lives. If a person chooses to spend their life sitting on a tree stump in some back marsh spitting tobacco--FINE. Forced volunteerism is a oxymoron, whether it be in the schools or called to kill.

Nobody has the right to determine my child's future. Nobody has the right to demand that a child be trained to go off to a foreign land to kill another mother's child, so that oil fields might be confiscated, pipelines protected, & timber & water stolen! This is NOT about invasion or protecting one's country from invading hordes. ... http://www.rense.com/general54/freedom.htm

Posted by: JoannOregon on July 3, 2004 03:46 AM

In the event there were any who thought I disagreed with Mr. Burklo, not so. I TOTALLY AGREE with the letter posted.

I was somewhat disjointedly adding to the ideas posited.

Posted by: Susan on July 3, 2004 03:50 AM

I absolutely did NOT think you disagreed, Susan. Not the least.

Posted by: shylurker on July 3, 2004 03:53 AM

(Hey, Dommael, how many negatives was I running there in my (earnest--honest) response to Susan?)

Posted by: shylurker on July 3, 2004 03:54 AM

Another Bush-Cheney gaffe:

http://abcnews.go.com/wire/Politics/ap20040702_1805.html

Posted by: Teresa on July 3, 2004 04:00 AM

Sharon, thanks. I need to say, though, that I think this is deeper than commercialization, though that is part of it.

Do you remember before this cabal got entrenched? Do you recall a time when every other t.v commercial was about some drug that could control our emotions, our sex drives, our every bodily function and thought and mood process?

Maybe I have some sort of memory disfunction, but I find it very odd and don't ever remember a time in our history where our every function seemed to be controlled by some drug promulgated by some pharmaceutical corporation or another. And this in a time when our health benefits have been so eroded by cuts in corporate health coverage, etc. Maybe I need therapy, but I truly don't think I'm nuts here.

You know, you're right. Everything IS COMMERCIAL and IS about controlling our emotions, our bodily functions, the air quality in our homes, offices, cars; the vermin on our pets, etc. etc.

The entire human race has been effectively reduced to something that the corporations can throw a commercial and some product at.

Forgive the rant, but what happens when the consuming public can't afford to consume the goods and services being foisted on them?

I'm not ranting at you, but where does this leave us?

Where are we? What do we do?

Posted by: Susan on July 3, 2004 04:20 AM

Susan, (and this is meant in all seriousness), go natural!

Posted by: shylurker on July 3, 2004 04:23 AM

I suppose there will be a market in India.

Posted by: Pat C on July 3, 2004 04:32 AM

And this is what the great country that was America has come to:

US lawmakers request UN observers for November 2 presidential election

WASHINGTON (AFP) - Several members of the House of Representatives have requested the United Nations (news - web sites) to send observers to monitor the November 2 US presidential election to avoid a contentious vote like in 2000, when the outcome was decided by Florida. -------------

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1521&u=/afp/20040702/pl_afp/us_vote_congress_040702062257&printer=1

Posted by: Pallas18 on July 3, 2004 05:22 AM

is there any way to be proactive and anticipate the next move or probable move of bush and his gang? other than mm F9/11 we seem to always be reactive and on the defence. let's roll around a good strategy....in our numbers(polls be damned) we could make a difference.

Posted by: rubaiat on July 3, 2004 05:24 AM

Rubaiat,
My chilling theory is another grid failure somewhere in the US (last year's blackout --a test run) so we cannot vote in the new electronic machines.

Sorry everyone, this icky thought came up today while cleaning, when I do my best channeling. Hope I am wrong.

Posted by: bhakti on July 3, 2004 07:22 AM

Shylurker~
We will fight for bovine freedom and hold our large heads high.
~D

Posted by: Dommael on July 3, 2004 07:24 AM

The Godfather, Marlon Brando died.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040703/ap_on_en_mo/obit_brando&cid=502&ncid=716
~D

Posted by: Dommael on July 3, 2004 07:34 AM

YOU MIGHT BE A REPUBLICIAN IF

* You've tried to argue that poverty could be abolished if people were allowed to keep more of their minimum wage.

* You've ever referred to someone as "my (insert racial or ethnic minority here) friend."

* You're a pro-lifer, but support the death penalty.

* You've ever uttered the phrase, "Why don't we just bomb the sons of bitches."

* You've ever called a secretary or waitress "Honey."

* You've ever called education a luxury.

* You're afraid of the "liberal media."

* You've ever called the National Endowment for the Arts a bunch of pornographers.

* You think all artists are gay.

* You've ever urged someone to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, when they don't even have shoes.

Posted by: on July 3, 2004 08:53 AM

Several months back I posited that there might be a conflagration in the ME, not started by US, but one in which the US would ally itself after begun. Israel made similar threats against Iraq before we invaded in March 2003 to those coming now regarding Iran. see article below and others on the net...

--------

http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breaking/20040701-042335-4421r.htm

Commentary: Israel to bomb Iran?

By Arnaud de Borchgrave
UPI Editor at Large

Washington, DC, Jul. 2 (UPI) -- As the Bush Administration concludes it cannot risk Iranian retaliation against a fragile Iraq under U.S. occupation, Israel is dusting off contingency plans to take out Iran's nuclear installations.

Posted by: Jo on July 3, 2004 01:37 PM


....this would make the trial more interesting..
this story is also years old...shows our press at
its best...

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article6421.htm

Posted by: wv on July 3, 2004 02:16 PM

HI EVERYONE,

Haven’t posted in a while. I’ve been on information overload.

JUST HAVE A MOMENT TO CHECK IN.

PLEASE READ THE FOLLOWING WHICH AIRED ON CNN JUNE 26,2004

This story about an Afghan boy named AZIZULLAH really touched me, so I emailed CNN to find out how to help. It seems they’ve had a deluge of emails about it. If any of you can, or are interested in helping- here’s the story. Address of trust fund is at the end.

PARTIAL TRANSCRIPT …..

CNN SATURDAY MORNING NEWS
Aired June 26, 2004 - 07:00 ET

I'm Drew Griffin. We thank you for being with us on this morning.

And ahead this hour, the messy business of war. An update on a young boy mistaken as the enemy in the Afghan war. He barely survives being shot by U.S. troops. . . .

GRIFFIN: There's a heartbreaking story of war coming out of Afghanistan. Three weeks ago, U.S. soldiers on patrol in the Patika Province saw someone running away. Warning shots fired. The figure in the distance refused to stop. Soldiers fired again, this time hitting their target.

That target turns out to be an unarmed 12-year-old boy, a shepherd, really. The soldiers who moments ago were chasing him did all they could to keep him alive. A military hospital rushed there to take the boy to a field hospital, where he is right now. He is expected to survive.

The soldier who pulled the trigger and then tried to save the boy declined to be interviewed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SGT. TRAVIS HIRMAN, U.S. ARMY: I know him pretty well, (the soldier) and this I -- it's messed him up pretty good.

STAFF SGT. JASON WISTOSKI, U.S. ARMY: He didn't know he was a boy. It's like we all got kicked in the gut. It's -- it's going to take a little bit to get over. All of us who saw it happen are going to see it happen every single day for the rest of our lives, you know? It's -- you've got to live with that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Every day, my soldiers are put in life and death situations and forced to make life or death decisions. And it's not easy. And it would be foolish to think that every decision comes out the right way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRIFFIN: The Army conducting an investigation of the incident. This 12-year-old boy, his name is Azizullah. He's expected to be in that field hospital for at least another month.

He was in Patika herding cattle with his father, cattle that ran away during the shooting, leaving the family with no means to provide for itself. Meanwhile, Azizullah told his father all he wants to do now is go home. Of course, he can't go home.

A trust fund being set up for him by an attorney for Hogan & Hartson, a law firm in Washington, D.C.

Kim Reed, the attorney involved, works for the firm's Moscow office. She saw the story. She wanted to act and is doing something about it.

And we thank you for joining us, Kim. What can be done and what is being done, not only for the financial survival of this family, but for the boy that's going to need some therapy to get over this?

KIM REED, HOGAN & HARTSON TRUST FUND FOR AZIZULLAH: That's right. It's a very difficult situation for the boy and for the family, who live quite far from Kabul.

We have been told (AUDIO GAP) at the Air Force base that the child will require physical therapy for quite some time to regain the proper use of his arm. And as those who saw the original story know, during the confusion after the shooting, the family's flock of cattle and goats ran away. So not only do they have a child in the hospital, but they also have lost their means of livelihood.

What we're trying to do by setting up a trust fund for Azizullah is make sure that concerned people that would like to help this family, both the boy and the rest of his extended family, have a place to send contributions.

The first thing we plan to do is to replace the family's flock so that they can have back the livelihood that apparently they had had for many generations. After that, we hope to provide for physical therapy for the boy, as well as an education and other necessities that the family needs. They live in very harsh and primitive conditions.

GRIFFIN: The -- the father had to walk some two days just to get to his son, to get to the hospital. How do you take that physical therapy or physical therapist and bring him to -- to this boy, who' obviously going to need therapy for a good while?

REED: Yes, that's an excellent question. We have conference calls planned with the doctors at Bagram Air Force Base, where the child is right now to discuss what therapy is going to be needed.

Obviously, the child is going to be in the hospital for another month, so we need to wait and see what kind of progress he makes and assess at that point what he's going to need.

But without doubt, it will be a necessity for the boy and his father to come into Kabul at least a few times a year. And we will try to provide for some transportation for them during those trips so that they don't have to make this two-day walk again.

GRIFFIN: Kim, so many heartbreaking stories out of Afghanistan, throughout not only this skirmish but the Taliban regime. There's all kinds of heartbreak and poverty there.

This touched you in some way that made you act. What was it?

REED: I've asked myself that same question. I was sitting at work in the middle of the day here in Moscow and checked in to CNN.com, as I do a couple of times a day. And for some reason, this story caught my eye.

I have children, and I suppose part of the reason that it touched me was that I could identify with the father's pain. Part of it was the camera shot of the boy laying on the ground and -- and looking so frightened and so fragile.

And it's also a means of feeling less helpless than I and many Americans have felt during the war in Afghanistan and the war in Iraq. It's a means of trying to help in some small way, and feeling that we do have some control, at least in this -- for this one child.

GRIFFIN: Kim, I'm not sure this family will ever quite understand all that you're doing, but we certainly thank you for doing it. And thank you for joining us this morning.

REED: And thank you to all of those who are making contributions.

Checks can be sent to the newly established trust fund with the Talisman Foundation in Pennsylvania. Please address the envelope as "Azizullah Trust Fund, c/o Talisman Foundation, 236 Stover Drive, New Holland, PA 17557.

PLEASE MAKE CHECKS PAYABLE TO "trust account for benefit of Azizullah's family". END OF TRANSCRIPT

I am always comforted by these words by Mother Theresa.

“It is not how much we do, but how much love we put in the doing. It is not how much we give, but how much love we put in the giving.”
MOTHER THERESA

We can also send thoughts of compassion and comfort to Azizzulah and his family and to the soldier who shot the boy and was traumatized by the event – also to the other soldiers in the unit. They are our sons and daughters.

Every small act of caring and kindness expands our humanity.

PEACE

JAYCEE

Posted by: Jaycee on July 3, 2004 05:36 PM

Can I ask another question about Farenheit 9~11?

It's a seriously deep question, or I wouldn't waste the bandwidth.

Why was John Ashcroft singing "Let the Eagles Soar"?!?
~D

Posted by: Dommael on July 3, 2004 06:19 PM


....frightening.....

http://news.independent.co.uk/low_res/story.jsp?story=537613&host=3&dir=81

Posted by: wv on July 3, 2004 06:40 PM

I have a question. I don't understand the protocols and such but when Kerry is elected, can he remove Negroponte? Or will he have to get senate approval?

Posted by: Teresa on July 3, 2004 07:16 PM

Teresa, I really doubt that Kerry will want to remove Negroponte should he be elected. Though he has changed his position on the invasion, he still believes we should stay the course and all that it implies - including retaining Iraqi occupation appointees of the previous administration.

Posted by: on July 3, 2004 07:53 PM

As usual, shrub and his cronies made a mistake of
turning over the reins, sort of, to the Iraquis on
a worse day, astrologically.The original change in
power, sort of June 30 was a better date, because
Venus was going to turn direct from her previous retrograde position.But on June 28, Venus was still retrograde meaning issues are still aboil and will continue to do so, till shrub is kicked out of office forcibly by the electorate here on
Nov 2. Venus stationary direct, would have contributed to more tranquility. So much for another bungle by the blind bungling thief in WH

Posted by: Raj on July 3, 2004 08:12 PM

As usual, shrub and his cronies made a mistake of
turning over the reins, sort of, to the Iraquis on
a worse day, astrologically.The original change in
power, sort of June 30 was a better date, because
Venus was going to turn direct from her previous retrograde position.But on June 28, Venus was still retrograde meaning issues are still aboil and will continue to do so, till shrub is kicked out of office forcibly by the electorate here on
Nov 2. Venus stationary direct, would have contributed to more tranquility. So much for another bungle by the blind bungling thief in WH

Posted by: Raj on July 3, 2004 08:12 PM

As usual, shrub and his cronies made a mistake of
turning over the reins, sort of, to the Iraquis on
a worse day, astrologically.The original change in
power, sort of June 30 was a better date, because
Venus was going to turn direct from her previous retrograde position.But on June 28, Venus was still retrograde meaning issues are still aboil and will continue to do so, till shrub is kicked out of office forcibly by the electorate here on
Nov 2. Venus stationary direct, would have contributed to more tranquility. So much for another bungle by the blind bungling thief in WH

Posted by: Raj on July 3, 2004 08:13 PM

As usual, shrub and his cronies made a mistake of
turning over the reins, sort of, to the Iraquis on
a worse day, astrologically.The original change in
power, sort of June 30 was a better date, because
Venus was going to turn direct from her previous retrograde position.But on June 28, Venus was still retrograde meaning issues are still aboil and will continue to do so, till shrub is kicked out of office forcibly by the electorate here on
Nov 2. Venus stationary direct, would have contributed to more tranquility. So much for another bungle by the blind bungling thief in WH

Posted by: Raj on July 3, 2004 08:13 PM

As usual, shrub and his cronies made a mistake of
turning over the reins, sort of, to the Iraquis on
a worse day, astrologically.The original change in
power, sort of June 30 was a better date, because
Venus was going to turn direct from her previous retrograde position.But on June 28, Venus was still retrograde meaning issues are still aboil and will continue to do so, till shrub is kicked out of office forcibly by the electorate here on
Nov 2. Venus stationary direct, would have contributed to more tranquility. So much for another bungle by the blind bungling thief in WH

Posted by: Raj on July 3, 2004 08:14 PM

We seem to be having some sort of temporal shift within the moveable type.

Posted by: Dommael on July 3, 2004 08:24 PM

Full moon and all.
~D

Posted by: Dommael on July 3, 2004 08:25 PM

Sorry about the repeat, above due to computer malfunction. Another point to consider is that,if
the al quaida wants to sway the elections one way or the other, they don't have to carry out an attack here, like everyone thinks.An attack of high severity, if carried out in Iraq, will have the same consequences on the outcome of the election. So the hoe security office here, not only has to think of raising the color code here, but in Iraq also, since currently Iraq is like the
52nd. state of usa(israel is the 51st.state) if some one thought I counted wrong.

Posted by: Raj on July 3, 2004 08:29 PM


Rex Reed on F 9-11 - Electrifying!!!

http://www.observer.com/pages/onthetown.asp

Posted by: wv on July 3, 2004 08:42 PM


another view of F9-11

http://www.observer.com/pages/movies.asp

Posted by: wv on July 3, 2004 08:53 PM

Awesome thread ongoing right now at DU. Pay special attention to one H2O Man:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1902738&mesg_id=1902738

Posted by: shylurker on July 3, 2004 10:29 PM

Sorry to take so long to respond, but I only check this site at work, as my home connection is way too slow! Shylurker, Jo, and Susan, glad you enjoyed the forward.

It's always been my position that any stated personal preference, religious or otherwise, should be stated ONLY when prefaced with the words "For me...". There is no "one way" sign when it comes to the spirit and its evolution, and those who try the hardest to force everyone else to believe as they do (hello, Beelzebush & co.) are those who are the least sure about their beliefs - why else would they need to shore up their particular dogma by forcing others to say "me, too?"

Anyway, I pretty much just lurk here for the sheer joy of knowing I'm not alone in believing that we can change the world with our hopes and dreams - another fugitive from the 60s still lives!

Posted by: Baraka on July 3, 2004 11:56 PM

Colin Powell sang "YMCA" at an Asian security conference, wearing a hard hat and a tool belt?!?

Some weird plan to take over the world through distraction is afoot~
~D

Posted by: Dommael on July 4, 2004 03:39 AM

very strange ~D maybe Colin is trying to shore up support with the log cabin republican base?

Posted by: on July 4, 2004 04:29 AM

The DOJ's 'unreadable' database problems inspired this slightly naughty artwork:
http://esotericaofleesburg.com/jane/jesussavesJtn.jpg

Heh.

Posted by: Arachnae on July 4, 2004 05:31 AM


this article about sums it up.....

http://pinr.com/report.php?ac=view_printable&report_id=181&language_id=1

Posted by: wv on July 4, 2004 12:43 PM


this possibly the best review of F9-11 so
far. Saw it again last night...unbelievable...
it is all you can do to keep your mouth shut
whilst viewing this film....

http://www.yellowtimes.org/print.php?sid=1999

Posted by: wv on July 4, 2004 01:34 PM


Jo:

A few months ago you asked me if I had any details of shrub's actions on the day of 9/11 etc.

You may find a lot of your answers on the front
page of today's St. Petersburg Times; you'll see
the article on the left-hand side, about half way
down.

Posted by: Corleonis on July 4, 2004 03:48 PM

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/0705042.shtml

What is Good
  
Through these fields of destruction
Baptisms of fire
I've watched all your suffering
As the battles raged higher
And though they did hurt me so bad
In the fear and alarm
You did not desert me
My brothers in arms

- Dire Straits, 'Brothers in Arms'


   More...


HAPPY FOURTH EVERYONE! LOVE AND LIGHT TO ALL!

Posted by: Pat C on July 4, 2004 04:35 PM


the best place to find what Bush did on 9/11 is at the mad cow site. Not after he left the school but before.
Just plug in mad cow morning news.

Posted by: Jean on July 4, 2004 08:29 PM


...this article confirms everthing I have
believed to be going on in Iraq. It is a long
read but worth every minute of time spent. If there is not an investigation into this, and/or unless we demand it, we're lost! Write your congressman/woman and demand action.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/printer_070504A.shtml#1

Posted by: wv on July 5, 2004 01:57 AM

I’ve been devoting time recently to the thought of alien contact, altered states of consciousness, extra~sensory perception, telepathy, astral projection and time anomaly.

I’m reminded of something I read once in a book of Demonology. It said that in order to summon a demon, you really only need to follow a few simple steps:

1.) lie to a friend
2.) betray a lover
3.) desecrate a holy site
4.) commit a theft
5.) perform a rape
6.) perform an act of torture
7.) commit an act of murder
8.) commit multiple acts of murder

In the words of this book: At this point, don’t look for the demons, they’re already there.

As dramatic as that inherent message is, it got me to thinking about our collective perception of reality. We’ve seen:

1.) The complete disregard of all environmental concerns by the ruling class and the exploitation of our planet’s biological resources for commercial profit.
2.) The exploitation of our quality of human life as a result of the massive commercialization of fast food, pop culture and prescription drugs.
3.) Global invasions for empire multiple times in the history of human civilization, including perhaps the most ambitious, sophisticated, cruel and inhumane of all in our own timeframe.
4.) The exploitation and extermination of human life for oil, taken to such extremes that millions of people are independently motivated to document and assist in the struggle for control of the political, social and world theatre.
5.) A situation wherein technology is advanced enough to make such investigators inherently skeptical of the sources and quality of information they receive as well as its effect in shaping their actions and opinions.
6.) The increasingly advanced merging of input and transfer data speed with the evolution of human consciousness and the advancements in mankind’s understanding of genetics and the human brain.
7.) A culture that is continually permissive of alternate versions of the same reality as the dissolution of information barriers lead to an unavoidable awareness of alternate cultures, religions and societal norms on a global scale.
8.) With continually reinfoced processing results, events experienced on an individual basis and tempered by outlook, validation and observation on the fluctuations of energy within the timestream lead to self~awareness and the ability to communicate in real~time over cyberspace (a newly evolved method of tranferring information via light.)

Don’t look for the aliens, they’re already here.

Namaste~
~D

Posted by: Dommael on July 5, 2004 03:18 AM

Feel free to send that to your congressional representative!
~D

Posted by: Dommael on July 5, 2004 03:31 AM

When I read this I think of the brave souls who fought in World War II. An era where the birth of the United Nations came about. A time of the motto 'Never Again!' Where a new era did indeed dawn, if only briefly. And now again we lapse into the (old) ways of the Neo-Cons, as if Vietnam wasn't enough. The Bush Administration has trashed the Peace visions of Franklin Roosevelt and John Kennedy.

"We lived many lives in those swirling campaigns, never sparing ourselves any good or evil; yet when we had achieved, and the new world dawned, the old men came out again, and took from us our victory, and remade it in the likeness of the former world they knew. Youth could win, but had not learned to keep, and was pitiably weak against age, We stammered that we had worked for a new heaven, and a new earth, and they thanked us kindly, and made their peace."

- T.E. Lawrence

Posted by: jamsmitty on July 5, 2004 03:50 AM

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/070504A.shtml

Rumsfeld gave go-ahead for Abu Ghraib tactics, says general in charge

The former head of the Abu Ghraib prison in Baghdad has for the first time accused the American Secretary of Defence, Donald Rumsfeld, of directly authorising Guantanamo Bay-style interrogation tactics.

Brig-Gen Janis Karpinski, who commanded the 800th Military Police Brigade, which is at the centre of the Abu Ghraib prisoner-abuse scandal, said that documents yet to be released by the Pentagon would show that Mr Rumsfeld personally approved the introduction of harsher conditions of detention in Iraq.

More...

Posted by: Pat C on July 5, 2004 06:17 AM

someone on the local news said that the declaration of independence was signed on august 2!

Posted by: tgs on July 5, 2004 08:52 AM


....well,well,well....a woman at the centre
of our troubles???

http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,4963365-103550,00.html

Posted by: wv on July 5, 2004 11:59 AM

WV,
Further in re your link to Guardian article on Karpenski and her charge of Israeli interrogators at Abu Ghraib, Sy Hersh alluded to this in his New Yorker piece. [I'm an addicted 'wordophile' - note that "terro" is part of the word interrogate, which means to question formally and systematically; the word terror means according to webster online a state of intense fear.]

Now comes Justin Raimondo at antiwar.com to defend his previous comments and those of others like Gen Zinni and (D)Sen Fritz Hollings of SC. His current article is well worth the read, and I submit the last couple of paragraphs here:

-------

~ snip ~

If "Israel was never near the top of the list" when it comes to motives for this war, then how is it that Tel Aviv turns out to be the chief beneficiary in so many ways? As the Mossad infiltrates Kurdistan, demands recognition from the Iraqi "government," and even sends its skilled torturers to help the American occupiers subjugate and degrade their Arab charges more effectively, the demonstrable evidence that Israel's most loyal supporters led the way to war is not so easily brushed aside.

The smear tactic isn't going to work, not this time. Not when prominent former government officials and military leaders, such as General Anthony Zinni, are saying what we at Antiwar.com have been saying since long before the invasion of Iraq:

"I think it's the worst kept secret in Washington. That everybody - everybody I talk to in Washington has known and fully knows what their agenda was and what they were trying to do.

"And one article, because I mentioned the neo-conservatives who describe themselves as neo-conservatives, I was called anti-Semitic. I mean, you know, unbelievable that that's the kind of personal attacks that are run when you criticize a strategy and those who propose it. I certainly didn't criticize who they were. I certainly don't know what their ethnic religious backgrounds are. And I'm not interested.

"I know what strategy they promoted. And openly. And for a number of years. And what they have convinced the president and the secretary to do. And I don't believe there is any serious political leader, military leader, diplomat in Washington that doesn't know where it came from."

A new book by intelligence expert James Bamford draws the same conclusions about the origins of the Iraq war, and this analysis of how we came to be embroiled in the Iraqi disaster – trenchantly summarized in an excellent piece by Jeffrey Blankfort in Left Curve – is fast becoming the conventional wisdom. Is Bamford a "fruitcake" of the "far left"? General Zinni may be a registered Republican, but is he really nothing short of a neo-Nazi, as neocon smear artist Joel Mowbray would have it?

At this point, I would direct Besser's attention to a recent editorial in The Forward, a Jewish newspaper based in New York, which has a lot of years on the Jewish Journal of Greater Los Angeles, and also, it seems, a greater store of wisdom:

"As recently as a week ago, reasonable people still could dismiss as antisemitic conspiracy mongering the claim that Israel's security was the real motive behind the invasion of Iraq. No longer. The allegation has now moved from the fringes into the mainstream. Its advocates can no longer simply be shushed or dismissed as bigots. Those who disagree must now argue the case on the merits."

As I said at the time:

"Arguing for or against anything strictly on the merits is going to be a whole new experience for the neocons. Smearing their enemies and lying is, for them, a matter of course – it isn't just a matter of tactics, it's part of who and what they are."

I wouldn't identify Besser as a neocon, or the Jewish Journal as a neoconservative publication: a neocon would never point the finger at Bush, as Besser does. He writes that marshalling pro-Israel arguments on behalf of the war was just an "excuse" – just "politics" – a ruse to lure Democrats into supporting the invasion. But Besser should ask himself why, after all, this argument had such resonance with the Democrats – and why John Kerry is hurrying to prove himself more abjectly loyal to the American Likudniks than even this neocon-dominated administration.

Oh, but Besser doesn't want to go there, I imagine. He might turn into a "far left fruitcake," or, worse yet, a "far right loony." Far better to let certain realities go unacknowledged, and unanalyzed, than to have to give up name-calling and smearing as a substitute for arguing a case on its merits.

Ralph Nader has it exactly right:

"What has been happening over the years is a predictable routine of foreign visitation from the head of the Israeli government. The Israeli puppeteer travels to Washington. The Israeli puppeteer meets with the puppet in the White House, and then moves down Pennsylvania Avenue, and meets with the puppets in Congress. And then takes back billions of taxpayer dollars. It is time for the Washington puppet show to be replaced by the Washington peace show."

All the usual suspects are clamoring for Nader's head these days, including some of his fellow "Greens," but Ralphie has the enemy in his sights and more power to him. The time is past when a powerful lobbying group can claim special exemptions and considerations because any criticism of their activities is automatically ascribed to "bias" and "bigotry." American soldiers are dying every day in Iraq, while Israel annexes Kurdistan and their torturers get their jollies in American-run prisons.

What in the name of all that's holy is going on here? That's a question the American people are beginning to ask, and Antiwar.com is going to continue to provide them with some answers. If Besser, and others, don't like it, that's just tough: facts, as the late President Reagan once put it, are stubborn things, and can't be erased or banished from polite discussion on account of political correctness – or, at least, not for very long. The truth is coming out: better late than never.

– Justin Raimondo

http://antiwar.com/justin/

Posted by: Jo on July 5, 2004 02:56 PM

Jo,

from your link above:

"On the other side of the partisan divide, check out antiwar.com, a web site for – among others – disgruntled Republicans and libertarians like former GOP presidential contender Pat Buchanan..."

1)Pat Buchanan is known as a famous and flagrant anti-semite, which was the joke in Florida when thousands of votes were registered to him instead of Gore.

"At this point, I would direct Besser's attention to a recent editorial in The Forward, a Jewish newspaper based in New York, which has a lot of years on the Jewish Journal of Greater Los Angeles, and also, it seems, a greater store of wisdom"

2) During the Clinton years "The Forward" was purchased and is published by associates of Scaiffe Mellon, part of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy who tried to remove Clinton from office.

3) Furthermore the Bush administration is famous for being anti-semitic itself as illustrated by James Baker III famous quote when working on dimson's daddy's campaign "F_ _ _ the Jews, they never vote for us anyway".

Jo, not everything is black and white. While the Protestant rulers of this country have never given a hoot about the semite tribes, since they were and are the only "friendly" to the US in the middle east and the only place where an American plane or troop could land safely, there has been support for Israel as well as financial support to Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan and many other Arab countries in the middle east as well as Israel - just to keep things even.

Saudi Arabia may be friendly with the dimson family but that does not mean they have been or are to the US.

And if the United States were able to conquer and
colonialize Iraq, which is looking less likely, you would see just how fast American administrations would turn on Israel.

Finally, last point, is that not every Israeli is
Jewish. There are Arab Israeli's, Christian Israeli's and various other sects. Common sense tells me the Israeli the General talked to was an
Arab speaking Israeli - an interrogator/translator.

Although I agree that the presence and influence
of Perle and Wolfowitz and their ilk in the US govt has made me wonder at times if the Mossad has invaded the US government, this administration did not go to war for the benefit of Israel. It went to war for oil and revenge for
nutcase dimson. The Jewish neo-cons provided further excuse, in my view. Do you really think people like Cheney, Rumsfeld,Powell, Baker and Dimson would go to war FOR Israel?

Politics and wars make strange bedfellows of convenience.There is an old saying "The enemy of mine enemy is my friend" (temporarily as further proved by bin laden)

Put yourself in the shoes of Iraq. Would you like to be occupied? Put yourself in the shoes of Israel. Would you not attempt to turn former enemies such as the Kurds into friendlies as a buffer against invasion by neighboring Arabs?

Articles like this play into and feed and revive latent anti-semitism in the American public especially in the South where it is common knowledge that "Jews have horns".

Racism of all kinds, because only some 30 odd years have passed before it became politically incorrect, still appears to be very strong and have a pitbull's foothold in the South. Perhaps another 100 years is needed, if this country lasts that long.

There are less than 6 million Jews in Israel, surrounded by 1.5 billion Arabs. Do you condone their extinction?

In the whole population of the world of 6 billion people there are 13 million Jews. Is that .003 or .0003 percent of the world population.

Don;t you think it strange that all the world's troubles can be laid at the feet of these 13 million ? ?

Posted by: Pallas18 on July 5, 2004 04:44 PM

Heh heh.

Iraq's new chart with Uranus opposition the Ascendant - a tendency to shock their partners -
and even make enemies or break with them - I believe I indicated on these threads.

Waaal - here we go, read the second paragraph

Iraq ponders amnesty for insurgents
By Jim Krane
ASSOCIATED PRESS


BAGHDAD — Less than a week after taking power, Iraq's prime minister is considering offering amnesty to insurgents and could extend it to those who killed American troops, in an apparent bid to lure Saddam Hussein's loyalists from their campaign of violence.

A spokesman for Iyad Allawi went so far as to suggest attacks on U.S. troops over the past year were legitimate acts of resistance —

" "If [a guerrilla] was in opposition against the Americans, that will be JUSTIFIED because it was an occupation force," the spokesman, Georges Sada, said yesterday. "We will give them freedom."

http://www.washtimes.com/world/20040704-125306-8230r.htm

Posted by: Pallas18 on July 5, 2004 05:09 PM

Pallas 18,
I do not understand why one can't criticize the actions or motives of the State of Israel without having someone play the anti-semetic card. We criticize our own government every day for pity's sake and have to fight off the slurs of being a non patriot. I am an American... I am a patriot... I will criticize any action by any individual or any collection of individuals whether they or a group or nation that threatens our way of life in this country. I am an anglophile but my alligience is to my country, the USA.

"Don;t you think it strange that all the world's troubles can be laid at the feet of these 13 million ? ? "

No one is laying all the world's troubles at the feet of 13 million. What some of us are suggesting is that we look at the elephant in the room and discuss the fact that the State of Israel is too much involved in the affairs of this country.

Namaste

Posted by: Jo on July 5, 2004 05:34 PM

Jo,

"I do not understand why one can't criticize the actions or motives of the State of Israel without having someone play the anti-semetic card."

I tried to explain that to you in my points 1,2,3,4 above.Matters are not black or white. Your post seemed to agree entirely with the one-sided and openly biased article which didn't take into account other nuances occurring in the region and the world. I wish you would address those points I made and what you think about them,rather than saying the "anti-semitic card is being played".

My understanding is that dimson created this war for oil and revenge. My understanding is that dimson declared pre-emptive war on Iraq and that was his plan from way before he stole the presidency.

Your understanding seems to be dimson declared war on behalf of the State of Israel.

I think the purpose of all our posts is to make each other think -

As an anglophile you are in the majority of this country.(or were) And certainly the anglophile's are the "rulers" past and present of this country.

I am not an anglophile but that does not make non-anglophile's or myself any less patriotic or American or a person who does not place America first.

My worry is that I notice a consistency in your comments and posting of articles which are attacks on Israel and Jews, only.As an American anglophile should there not also be comments on Saudi Arabia's actions to America's detriment and Iran and Syrria who are and continue to promulgate attacks against Americans and Iraq?

Do you have any comments to today's news that Iran and Syrria have funneled 10,000 "insurgents"
into Iraq to kill Americans?

I do.

I wonder if it's true or if it's more disinformation to prepare the American people for dimson's planned attacks on Iran and Syrria.

Disinformation.

That's a very important word. And used very successfully in all kinds of propaganda.

Posted by: Pallas18 on July 5, 2004 06:44 PM

Jo, your comments regarding Israel are well taken, you are not the only person to have noticed that the US is too involved in Israel and more that a little one-sided, maybe it's because Israel's Venus conjoins the US Jupiter and we just love the country. There have been several middle eastern journalists and historians who have suggested that the Iraq War was at the urging of the Sharon government and those who support him. I even know a couple of Israelies who believe the Sharon government had something to do with this war.

Yes I think oil was a big factor but I also think there is much none of us know and all of us try to add our two cents based on partial or dubious information. I think there might have been a variety of factors and we may never know for decades to come who all the players or countries or reasons involved.

Posted by: Sally on July 5, 2004 07:04 PM

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Posted by: milfhunter on June 27, 2006 12:19 PM
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