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Regime Change in The Air by Isabelle Ghaneh
The times they are a changin’ and no more so than in the higher echelons of those connected with political life. As Rummy attempts to save his job and his a**, let’s take a look at his chart, thanks to data info posted on Claudia Dikinis’ website Starcats. Rummsfold (dare we hope) is undergoing some strenuous transits. His natal Chiron is located in the 6th house, at 27 degrees of Taurus. Now keep in mind that his wounded self (whether he knows it or not) is obviously connected with civil servants (his military underlings), his sense of getting what he feels entitled to (Taurus) and is conjunct the fixed star Caput Algol, 26TAU10, the most malefic in the fixed star spectrum. This is one mixed up guy, to say the least. Currently the Sun and the New Moon connected to it on May 18th will transit this Chironic placement for dear old Rummy. Perhaps a new career is in the works for Mr. Blood and Guts. It seems to be so with transiting Saturn conjunct his natal Sun down the road in early July and his 10th house at 29 degrees of Virgo being squared by transiting Venus in Gemini later in the month of June. The transient North/South Node is exactly squaring his 10th house ruler Mercury, located in the natal 8th house, the house of sex, secrecy and death. Sounds like him, doesn’t it? His Solar Return for July 9, 2004 finds the Sun one degree away from conjunction with Saturn, the great karmic reaper. He will deal with it’s energy for one whole year. For some that would be good, but in his case I wouldn’t count on it. We reap what we sow and he hasn’t sown anything but the seeds of destruction and war mongering, in my humble opinion. With Uranus in Pisces conjoining the 10th house of the SR chart at 8 degrees of Pisces, his status is subject to unsettling, sudden change. Abrupt change I might add. A sudden resignation, a sudden loss of status from his ally, the ‘most right wing President in memory’, according to a BBC news article I read recently perhaps. The Solar Return Chiron is conjunct his SR 8th house cusp, again, the themes of death, sex, secrecy and destruction are coming to the fore, along with Pluto placed in the 6th house. Don’t you love it when astrology just writes itself, all you have to do is type. That’s the easy part. Now on to Great Britain. Referring to the aforementioned BBC article, the reference to George Bush was included in an analysis of the chances of Tony Blair staying in place. The idea being discussed was that Gordon Brown, Blair’s second in command, may step in and take his place. Blair says he will stay the course, but who knows? What are his aspects and those of his Labor Party comrade, Gordon Brown? Gordon Brown was brown in Glasgow, Scotland on Feb. 2, 1951. Without a birth time I will use a noon chart to get the most accurate assessment of the planets on that day as possible. Gordon Brown has Venus, Mars, Jupiter and the North Node all at various degrees of Pisces. Transiting Uranus will be conjuncting them one by one. In addition, transiting Jupiter is opposing them, also one by one, along with squaring his Sagittarian Moon. Since the Moon was at 20 degrees of Sagittarius on the birth day at noon, it is most likely Gordon Brown has his Moon in Sagittarius. Transiting Neptune is moving away from its conjunction with Gordon Brown’s Sun, which is also conjunct Tony Blair’s natal Moon. Are they both having the scales fall away from their eyes at the same time? And what do they see, I wonder? Is it the true nature of George Bush and company? One can only hope. Brown certainly has a rapport and affinity for Tony Blair, with the Sun/Moon conjunction they possess, but he is ambitious, given his Mercury in Capricorn and his Sun opposite Pluto aspect. How far does loyalty go with this man I wonder? And how good a replacement for the beleaguered Tony Blair would he be? Time will tell, and time will tell if he gets his chance at the pot of gold at the end of the political rainbow. Now for the poor deluded Mr. Blair. He has certainly fallen from grace, as discussed in the majority of articles being published in the British media. Tony Blair has Chiron transit his natal 10th house, so he too is experiencing his Chironic wounds in public. How humiliating to have your faith in someone (George Bush) and someone’s rhetoric be so dashed to the ground and shown to the world for the hollowness that it was based on. How humiliating to be caught in so many lies, and to have your allegiance to this person and his agenda be shown up for the fraud it is. Uranus has recently squared Blair’s ascendant at 4 degrees of Gemini and this again shows the erratic nature of he is presenting to world personality-wise. Is he a well meaning idealist gone sour, or is he just unable to think for himself for some reason, and under the sway of the more forceful George Bush? Who knows, but again, Blair’s basic nature and character is being debated by the British press. Blair’s Jupiter at 29 degrees is in Taurus and in the 12th house and conjunct his ascendant. Jupiter is in line for a direct hit from the New Moon on May 18th . This New Moon, in 28Tau33 portends an end connected with a beginning, since it is at the very end of the sign of Taurus and conjunct Caput Algol, the aforementioned most malefic star in the zodiac, by 2 degrees. The very tragic Nicholas Berg, whose birth date I do not possess, was allegedly beheaded by someone in Iraq recently. Whether it was the CIA, the Arab terrorists, the FBI, Iraqi prison guards, American prison guards, or persons unknown, I can’t say. I can’t even say if it was an actual beheading, since I have not seen the video and many reports are saying that the video is inconsistent with what happened to Mr. Berg. I do know of the case of Charles Horman, who was a free lance journalist in Chile and died during the aftermath of the coup in that country on September 11th 1973. The movie ‘Missing’ by Costa Gavras probed into that death. It was later confirmed, when classified documents were released in 1999, that U.S. intelligence agents played a role in Hormans death. Can it be the same thing here? I don’t know. With Caput Algol being caught up into the astrological dynamics of the New Moon, and since Caput Algol is the fixed star symbolically of losing one’s head, it can again only be said that Astrology writes itself, the astrologer just types.
Sally Cheyne McDonald on May 17 | Link
Comments
Sally, wonderful. I just had a thought. What if Shrub becomes TOO unpopular? Yes it was unthinkable even a few weeks ago. And if that happens what if the rethugs get smart and drop Dumbya from the ticket to prevent being lost in the wilderness for 20 years (like after Hoover's defeat)? And what if their savior is John McCain? I think he is the only one on the bench who could step in at the last minute and stand a chance. Would he do it? Could he win against Kerry? He'd be a thousand times better than what we have now, but still, a right winger (albeit a smart non-fascist one) through and through. Anyone have info on McCain's chart? Posted by: Larry on May 17, 2004 07:25 PMWonderful article, Isabelle. Gives us some hope. Isabelle, The link above is broken... maybe the (s)before the html? I would love to read the article... sounds interesting. Yes, that wicked Caput Algol is prominent in Sharon's chart also. Some think the CIA/MOSSAD might have ended Berg's life while he was in US custody... roughed him up a little too much maybe? Don't see any tie in Sharon's chart to that, do you? Again, thanks for a really nice piece. Peace Posted by: Jo on May 17, 2004 07:51 PMJo, I got the chart from Astro Databank, last entry under "Search/Links" on the right-hand side bar. Posted by: shylurker on May 17, 2004 07:53 PMArticle with some real food for thought. Agree with your assessments on Berg's death, because I Sally, I always enjoy your writing. I think because of Rumsfeld is on Msnbc as you write and looks terrible - cheeks sunken in, veins standing out on his forehead - Saturn coming to his sun is showing. Isn't it amazing that they all have Caput Algol, the most malefic star prominent. The news is reporting that Bush's personal WH lawyer Al Gonzalez is the one who made the "legal" Tony, Tony, Tony. I like Tony and I think he has been fooled. After all, the United States produced Bill Clinton who he adored and trusted and unfortunately maybe he transferred that trust But another look at what you have written, Sally , indicates a very serious matter for Tony. I think Tony Blair's life is in danger ( to hell with his career) Look at this again: "Blair’s Jupiter at 29 degrees is in Taurus and in the 12th house and conjunct his ascendant. Jupiter is in line for a direct hit from the New Moon on May 18th . This New Moon, in 28Tau33 portends an end connected with a beginning, since it is at the very end of the sign of Taurus and conjunct Caput Algol, the aforementioned most malefic star in the zodiac, by 2 degrees. Posted by: Pallas18 on May 17, 2004 07:54 PMIsabelle, forgive me for giving credit to Sally Also, I don't know what the buzz all about McCain Raj, why don't we urge the Dems to swap Zell Miller for McCain? Talk about misfits! Posted by: shylurker on May 17, 2004 08:49 PMabsolutely, I'm all for it, shylurker.The way zell
http://homepage.mac.com/webmasterkai/kaicurry/gwbush/remindus.swf Posted by: wv on May 17, 2004 09:17 PMAs a novice (Brit) astrologer I have been lurking around this site for a while and have enjoyed excellent articles and stimulating comment, thank you to all concerned. Re Gordon Brown's chart, I would be surprised if the exact birth data is not in existence. All births in Scotland have the birthtime recorded on the birth certificate (unlike births in England and Wales). I will post the info if I come across it. The UK consensus - at least as far as the media and opinion polls are concerned - seems indeed to be that the writing is on the wall for Tony. What continues to tie him so strongly to George W. is one of the great mysteries of our time .... Posted by: Mary_Rose on May 17, 2004 09:18 PMWell done Isabelle!!! The following isn't going to play well at the White House or the Gov's house in Florida. I also wonder how Eisner might feel about this since he tried to nix it for Miramax. Support The DrudgeReport; Visit Our Advertisers
Regarding Blair's relationship with Bush, I suspect that, like the shadow govt behind GW in this country, there are probably some pretty heavy hitting players somewhere behind the scenes on the other side of the atlantic too. Blair may have been pressured into this support by one source or another and finds himself unable to extracate himself, short of political oblivion. Posted by: Jeanie on May 17, 2004 09:36 PMDont worry. Tony will be rewarded (Carlyle Group or other such appointment). Posted by: shylurker on May 17, 2004 09:37 PMWonderful article. I looked up Caput Algol on astrodienst and they don't have it listed on their asteroid list. Does it exist under a different name? Obviously I'm curious if I or anyone in my family has it in their chart... Posted by: Marta on May 17, 2004 09:42 PMEasy to know why Blair went the imbecile shrub-it Larry: a more serious prospect for the RNC would be Arnold Swartg. don't you think? He needs to be watched like a hawk. Posted by: Beverly on May 17, 2004 09:50 PMMarta, Caput Algol is not an asteroid, it's a fixed star at 24/26 Taurus. While the ancients ascribed beheading and other horrible events to this star, I've known people with this aspect who kept "losing their head" over a lover or job. So not all the dire warnings of Caput Algol come to pass. Posted by: Sally on May 17, 2004 09:52 PMMarta, I believe AlGol is a fixed star. Posted by: shylurker on May 17, 2004 09:52 PMI just read somewhere recently, that Tony Blair joined up with Caryle Group a while back. Posted by: Beverly on May 17, 2004 09:55 PMWith any luck, we can keep them from amending the Constitution so Ahhhhhhnold can run for prez. What gives me pause is that they wouldn't support the ERA because they hate women and, of course, Ahhhhhnold's behavior toward women has been despicable, leading one to believe he must hate women too. He even made a joke about shoving a woman's face into the toilet during a movie during his campaign. It's a very serious matter and yet the majority just shrug, chuckle and move on confident in Ahhhhnold. Posted by: shylurker on May 17, 2004 09:57 PM
http://www.takebackthemedia.com/onearmy.html Posted by: wv on May 17, 2004 10:10 PMAaaahnold is not going to WH in our life time.Both Raj, I wouldn't bet on Ahnold not helping the RNC & the Sally, re: Caput Alogol, quite correct about in modern times losing your head over a situation rather than literally. Or those with Caput Alogol can be in whiplash things where they get herniated discs.....modern retributions are not as dire as Thanks for the article Isabelle. Me, I still think 'they' slipped Blair some left-over, Ely Lily/CIA LSD from the 60s, kept in the freezer. Definitely interested in Gordon, and it does seem likely, even without astrology that Blair will save his party by going bye bye. Supposedly even Ken L, Mayor of London who probably also thinks Tony got some LSD, will be voted out if Labor doesn't oust Blair. And voting Tory for revenge though stimulates memories of Nixon in '68: no solution. I got to thinking last night about astrology and how one can have a chart that leans a certain way, for example, with Bushies 12th house sun, and other telling signs of the self-destructive dope that he is. But then, what makes someone have as much POWER as Bush has. Power in the world, etc... I thought this cannot necessarily be seen in a chart, and probably has to do with past lives, reincarnation. Now there's been talk about nodes indicating past life positions/indications. When in history did there exist such a man given such power, and was hated by so many people, (and loved by the lunatic fringe, and other 'right wing' miserable fanatics)? He has to BE SOMEBODY, I thought. Considering he is born in 1946, and the family which he was born into. We all know Hitler had an affection for the occult. And we all know at the time of his death America had a lot to do with his fall. Could it be he willed his soul onto an American family, that he might have known somehow? Do we know WHY Prescott was funding the nazis? Is there anything in Bush's chart to indicate any tie in with Hitler? I find Hitler's sun in Bush's 8th house, and his death date in Bush's 10th. Where does one look (in Western or Vedic tradition), for such indicators?? It's such a thrill to read about Moore's film receiving such a reaction. He's planning on a release date for July 4, which is so perfect. Godspeed to him! McCain stays in his party because he knows that when the kooks are ousted, he's the only respectable one left. It puts him in a position of major power, and he's sat through all of this... but I don't think it'll work out for him necessarily. If the Repugs can be beated this November (meaning, if Diebold cannot rig it), I do believe it could be the end of them for a looonng time. But then again, if Kerry does not implement the draft, and pulls out, and we're attacked again, you can bet the devils will be out in full force telling America to vote blood (again) in 2008, and that brings us to the time of peak oil, and the end of the Mayan calendar, etc. Perhaps we are living in the end times. I was trying to decipher the pronunciation of the American run, West Virginia-based Arab tv network..it's pronounced AL Whore...I had to laugh. Can God direct happenings any clearer, in regards to our country as to what role we play in revelation? I think not. But of course it is still somehow a large pill to swallow, even for us Jesus lovers. We're only human and America has to be the best (worst) place to seduce you into thinking your little life, ego-driven goals and luxuries can make you truly 'happy'... Anyway, can someone please shine some light on astrological indications for past life incarnations??? Posted by: Roxanne on May 17, 2004 10:22 PM
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/05/17/MNGMO6MNV21.DTL&type=printable Posted by: wv on May 17, 2004 10:23 PMRaj: I am talking about Arnold as a replacement for Bush if he decides to step down due to unrecoverable ratings. Arnold did not need any money from Bush. The RNC/Rove had it all worked out for Arnold to win California. You must look at Arnold's sudden rise to political fame due to recall and redistricting that the Republicans are masters at creating in their favor. Legislation can be passed overwhelming, right now, with the Republican majority in control of both parties. If the RNC thinks they are going down, Arnold will be the one to bring them back and fast. He is popular and charismatic and can achieve the required votes regardless of his questionable character. He has just been to Israel, (see google). In addition, he just held secret energy meetings with California energy corporate heads just like Cheney did in 2001 with his Task Force.Arnold has big plans for himself and our Country and it is frightening. See google for details. Posted by: Beverly on May 17, 2004 10:47 PMLarry: I will have to take a look at McCains chart, he does appear to be honest and forthright, and the chart should bear that out, one way or the other, I know it's located at astrodatabank.com, they did a whole assessment on him back when he was running against Bush, and of course, smeared by him. shylurker: thanks for the link to astrodatabank and kind words on my article jo: here is another link to the Horman case, and in addition Hormans dob is 5/15/1942, NYC. His Sun is 24Tau10 and a noon birth would keep his Moon in Taurus at 28Tau52. That astrological placement has his Sun/Moon in-between the Caput Algol signature. His chart getting hit right now could be the reason his name and case (and justly so) is again in the news. astrology never forgets, does it? http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/04/05/con04212.html Pallas18: its possible there could be a danger to Blair upcoming, that is always a potential with his aspects, but i think it more likely that he will be in danger politically more than anything else, though the aspects are certainly not good right now for him
Mary Rose: thank you, if you get the time for Brown, please do post it! Marta: Caput Algol is a fixed star, not asteroid, and at 26Tau10 for the posting of 2000, listed on anne wrights fixed stars website, a great resource if ever there was one-only in the most dire cases do the fixed stars connecting to ones planets and aspects cause a really bad physical result, most times it is a case of the symbolism involved, not the actual results Roxanne: For those of us who are into the karmic past lifes beliefs, a look at the north node/south node placement in our charts, by sign, degree, house and aspect, can be an indication of what lessons we need to learn (south node) and what direction that should take us (north node) Sally: thank you as always for your wonderful moderation of this site, and for being a beacon of light in an otherwise insane world! Posted by: Isabelle Ghaneh on May 17, 2004 10:55 PMRoxanne: Robert Hand discusses Bush's "receptive sun" in the 12th house. He says it is powerful. Just for your information. Article #36. You can get there from Astroworld homepage under Star IQ. For McCain astrology: Robert Hand, Star IQ near end of page article #42. Also See "Duncan's Articles" from Astroworld homepage and go to the bottom of the page for analysis of McCain. It's old but pertinent now. Posted by: Beverly on May 17, 2004 11:19 PMLadies and Gentlemen may I present, for the first time in well over 100 years the magnificant VENUS TRANSIT.
Let's hear a round of applause for the little planet of beauty, joy, greed, jealousy and all around femininity in her glory, she will be center stage for 8 years minus 2 days. I would suggest we all read not just her astrological meaning but the meaning of mythical Venus. Posted by: Sally on May 17, 2004 11:51 PMwoo~hoo~! SALLY AND ALL HERE: I am applauding!! F.Y.I..... there are a couple of interesting articles on the upcoming Venus "transit/alignment" of 6/8/04 at http://awakening-healing.com. "Special Shift Report: Venus Transit of June 2004" - this is channeled by Kirael. "6/8 Venus Transit: A Call For Global Oneness" Posted by: Beverly on May 18, 2004 12:46 AMIf I have my S. Node in the 4th house, in 19.34 Virgo, soon to be transited by Jupiter, and my N. Node in 19.34 Pisces, 10th house, conjunct 22 Mars and 24 Venus in the 10th house, and 15 Pisces in 9th house....might that mean I've come into this life to resolve karma around 4th house issues(mom, nurturing, family, team work, laying foundations, organization & building, food & health, imagination, shyness & sensitivity)in order to realize my career/public profile mission? This seems to really fit now that I think about it. I also have Saturn in 4 Libra and Neptune in 19 Libra in the 4th house. (Cancer is my rising sign by the way and Uranus in 4 Cancer conjuncts my 10 Cancer ascendant). Anyway, I think I'm doing a good job. Since Virgo rules Paris and I have always had this romantic fantasy about Paris, this could mean I lived a past life there and didn't realize my life potential due to a chaotic, non-structured lifestyle and/or wounds inflicted by mother/family? My mom in this lifetime was beautiful, talented & wise, but had a lot of problems. Any comments are welcome. Best, Hi all - Is there an article or a link that describes what this Venus transit may bring to the US and the world? I'll take Venus over Saturn (who is sitting on me right now) any day! Is it folly of me to think that this Venus event may bring good things after these last four years of sheer torture? Posted by: Lucy on May 18, 2004 01:59 AMSorry, I meant an astrological link/article specifically. I saw the link for the channeled message, but what's the "hard" astrology? Posted by: Lucy on May 18, 2004 02:00 AMIsabelle, thanks, thanks, thanks! Well done. Mary Rose, welcome. Posted by: Janet on May 18, 2004 02:23 AMSally, The fixed star Caput Algol -- you say your experience is someone 'loses their head' over a lover or such... What of the incident today, the assassination of the Head of the CPA in Iraq? Does the invasion chart or some such show anything about this? Just a thought... Mary_Rose, welcome! So nice to have a Brit... I read your papers frequently and have been hearing for months now, through one bad time after another that 'Tony is going' or that it's 'all over for him'... why is the Labour Party hanging with him? I understand he and Brown made some sort of a deal years ago, that if Brown would not stand in Blair's way, support him during his tenure, that when the time came Tony needed to step down or chooses to step down, he would pass his mantle to Brown --- give us a little inside info on this if you can... we feel that when Tony goes, Bush will be close behind. Namaste Posted by: Jo on May 18, 2004 02:27 AMYou know, if Larry's scenario from the top pans out ~ the Bu$h cabal gets dragged down in scandal and human rights abuse charges and has a full-out implosion under the weight of corruption and greed, and people STILL can't bring themselves to vote for the other party, and grasp onto McCain as a last-ditch effort, then we are going to have to treat Conservatism like it's a disease. I am serious.
The degree of the event fell very close to my Within a few hours of the event, I went to my .................................................. I often find myself wondering what past life 'shrub' had. He certainly reincarnated with One thing they all really have in common is this Keep in mind that the Crusades were for the bene- I wish I still had Costains trilogy on English By the way, I think Asscroft was probably a "Mad .................................................. Mary Rose: WELCOME!!! Great article, Isabelle. I think the way you summed up the Nick Berg factor was especially poignant. wv, the daily brew article you linked is very, very good. I'm going to use it to bring friends up to speed. I'm still getting "gee, do you think if we don't vote it would be a bad thing?" from all over. Re: GW BUSH reincarnation. In the Middle Ages, a lot of the nobility and, I wanna know who BARB was in another life. As far as I'm concerned, all of the genetic malfeasance of the Bu$h family evil empire goes straight back to her. Posted by: Dommael on May 18, 2004 03:36 AMWelcome, Mary Rose. Nice to "see" you. You have a beautiful name. ;O) Posted by: JoannaOregon on May 18, 2004 03:38 AMSorry, I'm being rude. I'm worked up into a rant today. ***energy bouncing everywhere*** Welcome, Mary Rose. If anyone would like to further explore fixed stars, check out Ann Wright's website. It's a treasure trove of information. http://www.winshop.com.au/annew/ Isabelle, the birthdate I found on Nick Berg was April 2, 1978 which I posted on the previous article with source. How accurate the Assoc French Press, I don't know. Still, this date was impacted by the recent set of eclipses. Corleonis, I am a Plantagenet fan, especially of Richard III who I believe was innocent of killing his nephews. However your idea brought to mind his brother, George, Duke of Clarence, I think it was, who drowned in a vat of Malmsy? well, whatever they called the brew they made back then. Now, I could see Dub as that poor sot, reborn.....just a little humor, 'cause lately I feel like if I don't laugh, I'll cry. Posted by: Shade on May 18, 2004 03:52 AMmalm·sey P Pronunciation Key (mämz) [Middle English, ultimately from Medieval Latin malvasia, malmasia, alteration of Medieval Greek Monemvasia(Malvasia), a village of southern Greece.] Shade, the same technique with a $40 barrel of crude would just *resonate* with irony, don't you think? If you have faith, prayers are answered. :D http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4999734 WEB EXCLUSIVE more ---click on URL Posted by: Pallas18 on May 18, 2004 04:25 AM Dommael, ahWOO~HOO!!!!! Sorry to hog the board, Josh Marshall is assessing Kerry's performance at www.talkingpointsmemo.com. Not to be missed. ~D Posted by: Dommael on May 18, 2004 04:36 AMCor - blimey.. I doubt Bush was in the middle ages (last), he seems so recent, all these literal family correlations that hook up to the 30s/40s. But yes I know about people coming back in groups, so that's all interesting in light of the fact of the present astro relations between them all. I think one clue to understanding how and from where is the people one knows who have an almost personal reaction to the bunch, good and bad, you know, the people who follow them, (as well as the 'group mind'). Their age, their political bent and with whom it has anything in common with. But in thinking of the 'group mind'/reaction, it would have to be a majority who react the same way, and therefore one has to deduce he was a 'bad' dude. You know Europe hates him. Now why would that be? I think America is involved by accident as well as by karma. (As well as prophecy). I guess one could match up every major mo fo (!) and their chart next to the Bush gang and come up with the answer. Also to consider are the personal habits, sports preferences, etc. And what about all the secret homo rumors? That would have to be taken into consideration. Indications could mean he is tied to Kerry with a 20o Sag south node. There was a 'gay marriage' story tonite that began with two separate pictures of Bush/Kerry, nose to nose. It was very Saturday Night Live and like someone says above, sometimes you just have to laugh. Well, if he ain't Hitler, maybe Arnold is! hahah. Just spirit of anti-Christ/hatred/stupidty..it's all the same guy. And some people say they "don't believe in the devil." "Well he's not a guy." Aren't these 'guys'? Posted by: Roxanne on May 18, 2004 04:42 AMInteresting comments everyone. I think Georgie is more like Napoleon. Is Condi his Josephine? Haughty and sure of herself - let them eat cake! Posted by: Jeanie on May 18, 2004 04:44 AMBhakti, George is much much prettier than Barbara could ever be! Pallas..bless your beautiful heart for that new post. My husband is laughing the funniest laugh I've ever heard. Posted by: Roxanne on May 18, 2004 04:48 AMThe funniest thing about the Isikoff piece is that Clinton must've seen Bushie comin'! hahahahhhahhahh Posted by: Roxanne on May 18, 2004 04:55 AMJust a little reminder of why we need to bring these neocons up for war crimes. They are reprehensible enough --- yet they think they can sacrifice our troops on the altar of atrocity. http://www.sacbee.com/content/opinion/story/9316830p-10241546c.html "Q: What experiences turned you against the war and made you leave the Marines? A: I was in charge of a platoon that consists of machine gunners and missile men. Our job was to go into certain areas of the towns and secure the roadways. There was this one particular incident - and there's many more - the one that really pushed me over the edge. It involved a car with Iraqi civilians. From all the intelligence reports we were getting, the cars were loaded down with suicide bombs or material. That's the rhetoric we received from intelligence. They came upon our checkpoint. We fired some warning shots. They didn't slow down. So we lit them up. Q: Lit up? You mean you fired machine guns? A: Right. Every car that we lit up we were expecting ammunition to go off. But we never heard any. Well, this particular vehicle we didn't destroy completely, and one gentleman looked up at me and said: "Why did you kill my brother? We didn't do anything wrong." That hit me like a ton of bricks. Q: He spoke English? A: Oh, yeah. Q: Baghdad was being bombed. The civilians were trying to get out, right? A: Yes. They received pamphlets, propaganda we dropped on them. It said, "Just throw up your hands, lay down weapons." That's what they were doing, but we were still lighting them up. They weren't in uniform. We never found any weapons. Q: You got to see the bodies and casualties? A: Yeah, firsthand. I helped throw them in a ditch. Q: Over what period did all this take place? A: During the invasion of Baghdad." Posted by: Jo on May 18, 2004 04:56 AM
O.K., Here goes: HENRY II and ELEANOR OF FOUR sons: Richard (The Lion Heart), the Black For those who make references to "shrub's" sexual A little investigation will turn up that the TRUTH OK, I'm going to bed for sure this time and I'll
Corleonis, Today Venus went retrograde, the actual Venus Transit happens on June 8th at 18 degrees Gemini but you are right Venus went retrograde close to your venus and it sounds like an interesting day. Posted by: Sally on May 18, 2004 05:37 AMRecalling the past Mars transit that brought it closer to earth in centuries and all that has transpired since - if Mars represents War, does this inside the Sun transit of Venus represent new Peace initiatives? And completely off topic, the conjecture about Babs Bush reminds me of the oft-quoted Nixon remark: "Barbara Bush - there's a woman who knows how to hate." Posted by: bbuster on May 18, 2004 01:26 PMa little diversion.... http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,4926159-103680,00.html Posted by: wv on May 18, 2004 01:56 PM....more diversion... http://film.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,4926362-113178,00.html Posted by: wv on May 18, 2004 02:11 PMAstrologers, would you please suggest a "idiot friendly" book which explains the meaning of "degrees." I'm trying to understand what the degrees mean in a chart. The site is absolutely wonderful, a life-saving gem. It takes hard work to maintain , so please help keep it strong by DONATING. I'm not affliated with this site, except that I've been a poster from its early beginning and would like to have it for a very looong time. Posted by: Janet on May 18, 2004 02:32 PMDo any of you have a birth time for Seymour Hersh, the New Yorker reporter who broke the Abu Ghraib story? I think it would be extremely interesting to compare his chart with that of the United States to see what karmic connections might exist between the two. Hersh exposed the My Lai massacre in Vietnam, which was a turning point in Americans' views on that war. Now 30 years later, he's exposed the underbelly of the American military once again, and once again this may be the story that turns American opinion against the conflict in Iraq. There's got to be something karmic involved here--the similarities are just too eerie. Posted by: gbs on May 18, 2004 02:48 PMNancy, your use of the term 'tsunami' has established a trend: "For what it's worth" department: Many thanks for the information on Caput Algol! Posted by: Marta on May 18, 2004 04:18 PMI want to say that the website recommended by Beverly in her post has material that is so beautiful, uplifting and inspiring that I want to recommend it to all again, especially the Venus transit articles. When you get there, look to "Light News" which is on the left margin and choose 2004. In addition to the Venus transit material (one messenger substitutes "alignment" for "transit" and the explanation is so beautiful), there are other messages that are also very loving and unifying. I think it is awe-inspiring that the coming period of peace, what so many call the Golden Age or New Age or Age of Aquarius also coincides with what the world's great religions call the Redemption or 2nd coming. Here's a copy of Beverly's post again.
Posted by: Beverly on May 18, 2004 12:46 AM Posted by: Sharon Katz on May 18, 2004 05:33 PMI remember the first time I saw "W"...I "felt" and remember thinking "Caligula".... Posted by: Truewater2 on May 18, 2004 06:36 PMI'm getting a little excited about the Venus/Sun conjunction that is approaching. My 4th house cusp is 18 Gemini. Posted by: Teresa on May 18, 2004 06:51 PM
If you are new here, WELCOME!!!
don't you think? Once every 1,000 years or so of this "entity" is more than enough for me......... Posted by: corleonis on May 18, 2004 06:55 PMOh, my, my! Bye, bye, Rummy! I hope the White House is well stocked with moisturizer. Those handcuffs are going to chafe... Posted by: Dommael on May 18, 2004 07:15 PMCorleonis and Truewater2, Caligula is a good one, but how 'bout Nero? Posted by: Susan on May 18, 2004 07:59 PMSharon Katz: I am glad you enjoyed the Venus articles as much as I did..........................Skylurker: Thanks for the UPI article. Very straight forward. Did you see my question to you earlier about your comment that we aren't alone?...........It would be very interesting to see how Sy Hersh's astrology works out against this prisoner scandal (similar to the previous Richard Clarke -9/11 investigation analysis that was done here)Does anyone know how to get Hersh's birthday and time. I would like to see where he is right now astrologicaly along with *gbs* above.??? Posted by: Beverly on May 18, 2004 08:06 PMAnd the drip drip drip goes on: Reuters, NBC Staff Abused by U.S. Troops in Iraq http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=586&e=3&u=/nm/20040518/wl_nm/iraq_reuters_dc Beverly, I meant that, except for a few million people here in the USA, almost all the rest of the planet shares our profound discontent with Smirky & Co. As a couple of things I've posted here today suggest, so does the Army, CIA, State Dept., and even some of the Repugs in the legislative branch. Also, they just might have shot themselves in the foot by arguing during the am before the Supremes that the executive could be completely trusted to ensure no torture in its prisons, only to have Abu Ghreb (sp) hit the news in the pm. (I did post that one, didn't I?) Posted by: shylurker on May 18, 2004 08:28 PMMorgana! Hello, beautiful one. Posted by: shylurker on May 18, 2004 08:29 PMInteresting that Sonia Gandhi has resigned today, the day after her party's stunning win in India's election. I say interesting because I just read Wolfstar's comments about dangerous upcoming transits that echo transits at the time of her husband's assasination. Wolfstar ends by commenting: "Hopefully, her own astrologers will warn her about this time frame." Just wondering if this might be exactly what happened.... Posted by: Timothy on May 18, 2004 08:39 PMWe were both on that wavelength, Timothy. Nice to be in such good company. Posted by: shylurker on May 18, 2004 08:42 PMhttp://www.whatreallyhappened.com/panicbutton.html History will probably record that the greatest single error the Bush war machine made was to underestimate the impact of the Internet. They didn't understand the Internet, or the Internet culture, its sociology, and most important, how access to the Internet transformed Americans from mere acceptors of broadcast information into active and critical participants in the information process. No doubt there was a tendency to dismiss Internet news sources as just hobbies run by computer geeks for other computer geeks. Certainly nothing to worry about. Blogs were not mainstream media, according to the mainstream media. Bush and the NeoCons didn't really know what to do about the Internet, so wishful thinking made it unimportant. That was their critical error, because while the polls kept showing more people were still getting their news from the TV set than from computers, the margin kept getting smaller. And, the polls didn't reflect the fact that people watching the TV sets were not as mentally involved with the information flow as Internet users were. While fewer in numbers, people who were getting their news from the Internet were more involved with that news... and they were talking to people they knew who did not have Internet feeds. It's nice to be appreciated... Thank you for the kind words of welcome. Isabelle: Can I check the birth data you have for Gordon Brown? The only date I have been able to find is Feb 20 1951 (and not Feb 2) which gives him a 1 degree Pisces Sun and a Leo Moon. I have done a bit of googling, and this is the only date I have been able to identify. Do you have another source? Jo: Yes, apparently a deal was done in the early 1990s when TB and GB were risiing young stars in the Labour Party that GB would support Tony's bid for the leadership of the Labour Party in exchange for TB stepping aside at a later date and leaving the way clear for Gordon. For the last few years it would seem that Brown is increasingly frustrated that Tony has not been willing to give an indication of when he might step down as Prime Minister. The Labour Party have hung onto Tony in spite of the disaster of Iraq because he has a history of WINNING ELECTIONS WITH LARGE MAJORITIES! The Labour Party were in the wilderness from 1979 to 1997 with no leader to rival the Conservatives' Margaret Thatcher, and a fading hope of ever being in power again. And then along comes Tony! Whatever they may think of him he has had up until the last year or so a history of success .. and that is very important to politicians. Since early 2003 Tony has had Neptune transiting backwards and forwards over his 11 degrees Aquarius Moon in the 10th house. My astrology teacher likened this to a dissolving, a dissolution of his popularity with the electorate. Neptune stations at 12 degrees Aquarius in late October this year before moving on to square his Taurus Sun and eventually his Pluto in Leo. Confusion and dissolution again. In spite of his facile and flexible Gemini ascendant, let's not forget that Tony has Sun and Jupiter in fixed Taurus and Moon in fixed Aquarius. He is stubborn(!) and my own take on his position vis a vis Iraq, Dubya, etc is that he genuinely believes he has done the right thing, or even if not, that he has to see it through now he has started. Just my take though - probably Tony is the only one who really knows ...
A letter to subscribers from Erin at mantragirl.com a nice read/also wonderful chants/music Dear Friends, Two weeks ago I had the pleasure and honor to travel to Istanbul, Tukey to teach Kundalini Yoga and mantra meditation. My students there were incredibly dedicated and open to learning this ancient technology, and we had some of the most powerful chanting sessions I've ever experienced. Unfortunately, just three days after my arrival the news broke about the horrific prisoner abuse that was taking place in Baghdad. As an American visiting a Muslim country, I was ashamed and mortified, and felt an immediate responsibility weighing heavily on my shoulders. How was I to discuss these events with people whose language I did not even speak? How should I represent my country, my culture, and communicate my personal values in the face of such horror and despair? In the days that followed the breaking news, I found myself listening much more than speaking. It was a challenging and important lesson for me. I felt a profound sense of obligation to absorb and to learn, rather than to defend or project. As a teacher, this lesson came most powerfully-- everyone I encountered became my teacher; my students were now teaching me. I came away from my trip to Turkey with a strong feeling that the world, especially those in the Arab world, are taking the actions of America personally. This was a huge shock, something I just wasn't used to feeling in the comparitively sheltered and--I must say--numbing reality of the United States. No longer was the conversation about Nations, policies and politics, no longer were the issues abstract. As I sat in the yoga room meditating with students, as I rode in taxis and heard the outrage of the drivers at Bush's arrogance and America's brutality; as I walked through airports and felt the stares of people, their eyes registering that I was as an "American," and all the pain and shame and weight that that implied, I realized that the challenge we are facing today is completely personal. It is about self-examination. Who are we, and what are our values? How will we re-claim the truth under a government that is systematically stripping away our voices and our rights? How will we demand to be heard? I will never forget the feeling of people looking at me with shocked, hurt eyes, as if to silently say, "What are you going to do about this abuse? How can you let this happen? How can you allow your leaders to ruin so much that is good?" I heard them loud and clear. Until that moment I had not taken world events, and especially the actions of our Government and military, personally. I had been feeling distanced, ineffective, removed. How, after all, could my voice make a shred of difference in the face of Bush's foreign policy or the U.S. military's actions? How could I possibly create change? I have since learned that not only do I have a voice--but NOW is the time to use it. Now more than ever. We are not alone in our outrage and horror over the actions of our Government. The world is waiting to hear our voices--voices of compassion, understanding, urgency and peace. The world is asking us to step forward and speak! It is always a risk to express ourselves, especially in the face of censorship and institutionalized fear. It is always a risk to open our hearts. But I implore you, as students of consciousness, to speak from your hearts, and do it NOW. Forget about politics! Speak from your hearts and you will be heard. If there is one mantra you wish to chant to create change in this world right now, chant: It is a mantra to overcome all obstacles and negativity--it is the mantra of our time. Chant it loudly and often, know that others are chanting it with you. Let it lift you up! I hope I do not become silent again. I hope I do not become numb, or let the filtered news media and barrage of propoganda lull me back to sleep. Now is not the time to sleep--Now is the time to be viscerally awake. I invite you to use the Forum page of our website to express yourselves. I see that so many people view this page but not many add to the discussion. Let's talk about what we're feeling. Let's open our hearts and let our voices be heard! Sat nam, Erin--Mantra Girl Skylurker: Thanks for explaning. It's a good thing my mental lapses are a rare thing!!!I didn't see you post anything here about the Supreme Court. However, JUSTONCE asked some interesting questions about how the Supreme Court would handle their decision about the Presidential power/Detainee issue on the Cognitive Des. article in light of the prisoner abuse scandal. We all moved on and his questions weren't brought forward but I have been thinking about it. Seems to me there is a great deal at stake and that no stone should be uncovered. Time will tell. Justice Thomas gave a commencement address earlier this week on the topic of "Ethics and Morals". He doesn't seem to me to practice what he preaches...................TIMOTHY: Doug Riemer says that there is no way to tell if S. Gandhi was informed about her astrology, but if she was, she declinced the post for the good of her country, and surrounding countries due to harsh aspects. Posted by: Beverly on May 18, 2004 10:18 PMCorleonis and Susan, Thank you both for the warm welcome. I have been reading the postings for quite sometime, but only felt prompted to post today. As to why I said Caligula...that is because that was the "gut" feeling I had at the time back in 2000. I cannot explain it beyond "gut feeling." As to why not Nero, well, Nero, from what little I have digested of his rule, actually had a bit of compassion, and he paid for the rebuilding of residential areas of Rome at his own expense. He was a "party boy" (interested in theater) and concerned with his popularity. Caligula on the other hand was "universally hated" and it seems the literature of the "world" as they knew it is equally hostile to this fellow. He was not a nice fellow at all and there are unsettling similarities between that era and the current US administration. (Thinking outside the movie, of course (smiles)....but I will confess I need to read more about both fellows before I reach a "concrete" conclusion of both. Thanks again for the warm welcome Posted by: Truewater2 on May 18, 2004 10:21 PM
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article6204.htm according the the author. Methinks she's right! Posted by: wv on May 18, 2004 10:42 PMTruewater, I'm going to enjoy reading your comments, I can tell. ;-) Are you a reincarnation ~ Hence the "2"? This isn't the article I was referring to, Beverly, but it's close enough. This isn't it, either, Beverly, but you can see that the court heard the arguments eight hours before the Abu Graib scandal broke. Dommael, sad to say here's another one for you. Skylurker: Excellent! Just read the headlines on your links. Have to take a break and come back to read them yet tonight. ....../Sy Hersch is becoming more fasinating to me the more I read and hear about him. There is a lot on Google. also Excellent article from "Columbia Journalism Review" last summer. You need a pass, but I can get it for free from another site if anybody wants it. He is quite grouchy, rude, and curt. I still love him though. He was born in Chicago in 1937 but grew up in the Hyde Park area. He has a twin brother. He majored in history in college. Parents immigrated from Lithuania and Poland. Oh...he is a Democrat. I wonder what makes him so grouchy??? Posted by: Beverly on May 19, 2004 12:14 AMBeverly, here is THE article: Thanks, Shylurker. ~D Posted by: Dommael on May 19, 2004 12:52 AMA good buddhist perspective article http://www.buddhistnews.tv/current/bush-180504.php Now my visualizations are of bearing witness to a panoply of devas and gods, the Boddhisatva Avalokitesvara, and countless rows of Buddha's and Bodhisattvas throughout space and time sitting in the clouds and celebrating Bush's retirement from the Oval Office and his safe return to Crawford, Texas. Then I close with two healing mantras in rapid succession: "May all beings be happy and free from suffering – even Bush" "May all beings be happy – and freed from Bush."
Good one Jeanie. Very good one. Did you all read the article on abuse of Reuters Tsk tsk. No wonder we are now getting some real news reported! There is a question as to whether Neptune is the Perhaps (I vaguely recall) both are true, one in traditional astrology and the other in karmic astrology. Whichever it is, with both Neptune and Venus retrograde, the truth about this "compassionate Two items of interest: 2) Florida guardsman faces court-martial on desertion charge RUSS BYNUM Associated Press SAVANNAH, Ga. - A U.S. soldier who left his unit in Iraq rather than fight for what he called an "oil-driven war" faces a court-martial Wednesday on a desertion charge. Staff Sgt. Camilo Mejia, 28, of Miami Beach, Fla., could go to prison for a year and receive a bad conduct discharge if convicted by a military jury at Fort Stewart. The Florida National Guardsman left his unit in Iraq in October on a two-week furlough to the United States. He was gone for five months before turning himself in to the Army in March. He said his war experience made him decide to seek conscientious objector status. The infantryman said he believes the war is unjust because it is about control of oil supplies. He also said he was upset over the death of civilians. He said he was particularly upset over an incident in which his unit was ambushed and civilians were hit in the ensuing gunfire, and another in which he said an Iraqi boy died after confusion over which military doctor should treat him. He also claimed he saw Iraqi prisoners treated "with great cruelty" when he was put in charge of processing detainees a year ago at al-Assad, an Iraqi air base occupied by U.S. forces. Mejia filed the statements March 16, before the Iraqi prisoner scandal at the Abu Ghraib prison became public. Fort Stewart officials said they have forwarded his account to the Army. In his objector application, Mejia said detainees were kept blindfolded and troops were ordered to use sleep-deprivation tactics to aid with interrogations. He said prisoners were kept awake for up to 48 hours at a time, often by yelling at them or having them sit and stand for several minutes. "When these techniques failed, we would bang on the wall with a huge sledgehammer ... or load a 9 mm pistol next to their ear," Mejia wrote. "The way we treated these men was hard even for the soldiers, especially after realizing that many of these `combatants' were no more than shepherds." Reports are that many of the people we have sent over to Iraq are seeing the truth of this war and this administration. That's good news, because if What do you think? Great thread. I resonate with the idea that the internet will outwit the Bushies. It does not take too much to outwit dinosaurs, unfortunately they got the bigger guns. But dinosaurs are in stuck behavior patterns that separate and web people are communicating with each other. Bringing us together , uniting and spreading info. Thanks for all the amazing news links that I would never have time to explore unless getting it from you on this and some other threads. What's Babs Bush's birthdata? ps Please astrologers, maybe some synastry between Mass Murder Georgie and Mommie Dearest. Not blaming mothers here. Just that Babs is a piece of work and is partly responsible for that dynasty. Posted by: bhakti on May 19, 2004 02:59 AMOops! Thought I lost the first post. Sorry for the double posts.
You are right. I recently (within the last year) I tend to agree with you that Caligula's persona- But then, that may be part of the karma of this I must check a little on Richard the Lionhearted Will get back to you.... Posted by: corleonis on May 19, 2004 03:06 AM
In one of the few times Astrology came up on Smirk I just never had the time to investigate, since I Dommael, want to help? Posted by: corleonis on May 19, 2004 03:14 AM
I heard in passing on CNN (I think) that Sonia Also, Sonia Ghandi herself seems to believe that Barbara Bush is a Gemini, just like her spouse GW the 1st. Interesting. Posted by: Susan on May 19, 2004 03:34 AMDon't mean to post twice, but I had read that Sonia Ghandi's upcoming transits had a very troubling, physically dangerous aspect to them and was very uncomfortable for her safety. When I heard today that she'd foresworn the position, I was surprised, but immediately thought that she may well have been advised by an astrologer. Posted by: Susan on May 19, 2004 03:37 AMQuick review results: Astrodata has Smirky's chart and some interpretations (also a nice one for Swami Beyondananda!) and artcharts has a few good ones for Smirky and his lovely mom. I'm not an astrologer, but based on what I do know, I'd sure stay away from her! Posted by: shylurker on May 19, 2004 03:49 AMThere are a lot of extraordinary articles coming out that keep pushing Sy Hersh's thesis onward. No one even is listening to the Pentagon's denials. The first tsunami is definitely unfolding. They even use the word in this gem of an aritcle: http://slate.msn.com/id/2100683/ Posted by: Nancy on May 19, 2004 04:00 AMNote that these are the last days of the second pass of the Pluto transit opposite US Mars. Only 5 or 6 more days til it is exact. Mars rules the 4th house in the US chart, so this aspect has riled up the country at its roots, so to speak. And over some very Plutonian stuff - sadistic and sexual prison abuse. By the way, the Jupiter station in late April and early May was exactly square to US Uranus (8Gemini56), ruler of the US 3rd house - the press. Look what the press did during that period - the 60 Minutes story and the first Sy Hersh story that together broke open the prison abuse scandal. The prolonged Jupiter energy gave the press a big push and some major success in stimulating the Aquarian (freedom/truth)ideals of our free press. Posted by: Nancy on May 19, 2004 04:11 AMI recall WV mentioning the Messages from Michael book(s) awhile back. Interestingly in it they ( the entity called Michael made of a thousand or so evolved souls ) said something about all history repeating for the purpose of souls having a chance to repeat lessons or something like that. While I too agree with some here that Bush seems a bit young on the soul side, I do recall in the Michael books a mention of a time in Rome that we the US are repeating. Which time period it was I don't recall precisely. Perhaps if you, WV have the books you can look it up? Posted by: Cass on May 19, 2004 06:12 AMBarbara Bush was born on 6/18/1925, 10:18 am, Rye, NY. While George Bush Sr. Pluto is very close to his son's Sun, Barbara's Pluto was closer, and her Moon is in an applying opposition to that Sun/Pluto conjunction, it is also applying to an opposition to her Mars and squaring young George's Moon and his Moon squares her Mars. That type of fixed (Pluto and Mars) configuration alone in their charts indicates a very woven web of manipulation and control over her son. Add her Gemini Sun that waffles in their own confusion and Capricorn Moon to her son's sensitive Cancer in the 12th and he never received support for who he was or could have been. There would have been negative support for his own flaws, just as her mother did to her. Truthfully, it isn't the aspects or energies one has been born into, it's how much support one is given to actualize the best of those energies. Looking at the charts of mom, dad and son there have been a great deal of karma to work out. Barbara wanted power for herself, instead she subjugated that power toward her family and gave it away to her husband and children. It's not a mistake that you rarely hear of George's sister (not the one who died but the one who is alive)If Barbara could not be a power neither could her daughter. When something doesn't seem right with a child it's always the mother's fault isn't it. These people don't have any more of a tangled astrological web than the majority, I myself had terrible synestry aspects with my mother but we were always close, always friends, hardly ever a cross word between us and she supported everything I ever did in my life without judgment. That was because of the way she was raised and she passed the love and support on to all of us. I was at an event tonight and talking to a young woman who just LOVES George Bush and thinks he can do no wrong when I asked her why she said "because he is like us." Like us? What does that mean I inquired. As she stumbled around for an answer and came up with a poor one I realized the 'us' she was talking about were those who had been born to priviledge,born to a life of entitlement. She doesn't see, hear or want to be touched by the masses. The Iraqi's are evil, Saddam is a monster and we saved these people from him and they are ungrateful for the privileges we are trying to give them. She doesn't see that this country is on the verge of moral bankruptcy with no right to judge anyone anywhere or that George Bush is the mirror for that moral and ethical bankruptcy. Her chart by the way shows a lovely caring generous woman, and she is but only to what she sees as 'her kind.' No matter who we are talking about, the Bush family, Clintons, this young woman, me, you, it doesn't matter, what skills have been honed in our lives to make the best of the energies we have and to leave the world if not better at least not harmed. There are people who never learned those lessons, never honed those skills simply because they never had to and the Bush family is part of that group. I am not interested in making George Bush or his mother or father worse than me, but neither am I interested in them assuming they are better, that is really their biggest problem, they think they are better than 95 percent of the rest of the world. It isn't the money or position that makes them like this, it is some type of genetic family flaw that makes them think they are better and it runs through at least 5 percent of the population. Posted by: Sally on May 19, 2004 06:32 AMPheeeuw. Sally. Phew. Obviously you have never been to or know anyone from Rye, New York. Have you ever been to Think Stepford. Materialistic. Wear the in thing. "her kind". This woman aspires to the Bush "class" and that's pretty sad . these are people who are stuck in the past, who don't believe in a middle class or the American dream. Actually I also want to be with "my kind" and that lets out all of the Bush/Cheney wannabes, Just a small point to make about the word "metaphysics" which it seems the "metaphysical" community largely misunderstands. The origins of the word can be traced back to Aristotle. He wrote a number of books but all were lost, probably in the fire that comsumed the library at Alexandria. The Aristotelian texts that have come down to us are his lecture notes, compiled after his death by his students. There was one book that concerned a topic so general they simply didn't know what to call it. They had just finished putting together the "Physics" book and so this book they decided to simply call the "After the Physics" or "Metaphysics" book. It dealt with the subject of what became known as "First Philosophy", i.e., the first or most basic question: what exists? The thing that the "metaphysics" community doesn't seem to understand is that any answer to this question is technically a "metaphysics." That means that someone who is a "materialist" meaning someone who believes that what exists are just atoms in motion--no spirit, no soul, no gods, angels, etc. is also a "metaphysician." The "new age" usage of the term "metaphysics" denoting a belief in the existence of things beyond the physical is now so common that no one realizes anymore what the word really means. Posted by: Timothy on May 19, 2004 08:18 AMFascinating site, Gordon Browns birthdate is 20 February 1951 Scotland, details from House of Commons biography. Posted by: Dorothy UK on May 19, 2004 09:01 AMTimothy, thanks for passing that on! BBC had a report a few days ago about the possible discovery of the original site of the Alexandria library. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3707641.stm Posted by: Cass on May 19, 2004 10:15 AMDommael (please excuse misspelling :)) and Corleonis, Truewater2 was just a "randomly chosen" chat handle. The "2" was added because there was already a "Truewater"...however, the name has stuck and has carried over into "real life." Even though I have changed "chat names" several times, most still call me "Water" or True" or derivatives therefrom. Yes, I do believe in reincarnation. I believe the soul is eternal. To me, that is what the North and South Nodes of the astrological chart represent -- i.e., South node is "where you come from/lessons you can teach; North node represents the lessons you have come to learn/next stage of evolution. (My south/North Nodes are Taurus/Scorpio -- supposedly the most difficult of the Nodes (smiles)) I am definitely not an astrologer and my knowledge is extremely limited. So, I dare not make any "pronouncements" when there are others who are adept at reading,understanding, and interpreting what the stars represent. I would be delighted to have engaging discussions with you, but I do not wish to digress from the discussion of the article to which we are supposed to be responding, so please feel free to write to me at Truewater2@yahoo.com. Hope you all have a wonderful day, Sincerely, Truewater2 Posted by: Truewater2 on May 19, 2004 11:53 AM* The Jesus Landing Pad http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0420/perlstein.php * End Times: The bushies may be accomplishing what liberals never cld--bringing the era of con morality to a close. http://www.prospect.org/web/page.ww?section=root&name=ViewWeb&articleId=7739 Posted by: JoannaOregon on May 19, 2004 03:10 PMJeannie, thanks for the Buddhist link:) Timothy, I studied at the school of Metaphysics, and we were taught that "meta" means: of the mind. Sally and Nancy, thanks for the reminders. Posted by: Peg on May 19, 2004 03:24 PMPallas18 and ALL: Hi. What keen observation you have about the compassionless conservative "virtue". I gave up on it a long time ago and have never given it another thought. You are absolutely right about their true nature being revealed now.Perhaps the people are wakeing up but I don't know if it is enough yet to initiate any action taking on the part of the citizenry. Perhaps the Venus retrograde will work on individual values enough that we can create more of a consensus in the collective. I am rereading all three of James Redfield's "Clestine" books and am at the part now where he talks about FEAR and how it will create more polorization among the people. It is so right-on. Redfield was mentioned here just recently and I was already well into re-reading and would recommend them to all. IMO if people become as fearful as Redfield claims, they will continue to give their power away (to martial law) in order to feel safe eventhough it may only be an illusion to safety. Posted by: Beverly on May 19, 2004 04:15 PMIf anyone is going to draw any conclusions about Gordon Brown's chart, I'd be very interested in reading them. Although I was born in NJ, not Scotland, probably at a different time, that was is date of birth. Thanks for all the stimulating discussion here. It is very soul sustaining. Now that we are approaching the time of the crucial astrological aspects, I remain glued to this board and to the news. There are now 900 American servicepeople dead as a result of the Iraq war and untold thousands of physical & mental injuries and civilians casualties, largely Iraqui. Posted by: Sharon Katz on May 19, 2004 04:30 PMA little more on the possibility of martial law: have you all seen this little snippet? Seems Washington thinks "an attack will happen"..........http://www.usnews.com/usnews/politics/whispers/whisphome.htm Posted by: Beverly on May 19, 2004 04:31 PMJust a fleeting thought. Could there be a way to originate an Al Quaeda chart? I guess that there wouldn't be any way to find its date of inception. I am reading a book, "Sacred Rage," and I believe it does give the date of a "turning point" conference that was held by fundamentalist groups in the Mideast during which jihadist resolutions were made and objectives set. Posted by: Sharon Katz on May 19, 2004 04:36 PMFor you folks here that want more astro information on Bush and family relationships see Eric Fancis "Hail Caesar". It is an excellent study and not very pretty. To me the only time Bush is coherent verbally is when he is talking about violence, destruction, killing, executions in Texas, etc. Any other kind of talk unrelated to violence he can't handle and sputters about. Has anyone noticed this beside me?.........http://www.ericfrancis.com/horoscopes/2003A/usa.html Posted by: Beverly on May 19, 2004 04:53 PMMary Rose and Dorothy: You are exactly correct, browns birthday is 20 not 2 - au contrare - I hope that means i am contrite in french, but since i dont speak it, i dont know! but it is a beautiful language! i did see the 20 in the bbc profile i accessed, and it translated into 2 - and i cant even blame mercury retro, just myself! in terms of brown - just quickly he still maintains the 15 degrees of jupiter in pisces in his chart and to let you know i based my analysis on the fact that jupiter in virgo will be transiting that degree later on and jupiter does tend to bring good, even in an adverse aspect, and i thought that may be how he gets to the limelight, also, now i see the new chart, perhaps there is not such a great spiritual tie in with him and mr blair, and brown will pop up as soon as he can pallas18 - right on with the babs bush analysis, the marie antoinette syndrome is rife in the more affluent areas you mention,- let them eat cake, (i must be on a french kick) unspeakable rudeness, a feeling that everyone is beneath you, and acting as such, etc. thats the true atmosphere gwb was brought up in, no matter his fake texas drawl. by the way i always thought bush was the reincarnation of alfred e newman (what me worry) from mad magazine, though of course his more sinister aspects were not in play at that time, i just initially thought he was a complete idiot, i guess now, hes more of a henry III (to keep the french theme) remember him from the movie queen margo? he was the son who plotted and schemed his way to the top, along with his nefarious family. sharon katz: i will take another look at the brown chart, if its your birthdate also, just remember the rising time in the ascendent predetermines the angles of the chart, and that can and does make all the difference. so please dont take it too much to heart, whatever is said about him applies to his situation, not especially your own Posted by: Isabelle Ghaneh on May 19, 2004 05:42 PMGordon Brown: what I see for brown quickly is his moon was in Leo that day which means it was opposite mercury and conjunct Pluto since we allow a bigger orb for the sun and moon aspects in a natal chart-- lack of emotional control mentally meaning he can "shoot his mouth off if emotionally aroused" but then again he has enormous emotional control and needs to be in control with the Pluto aspect - how that will play out should be interesting also now his mercury is in Aquarius at 16 degrees that is a close mental alignment to blairs Moon though not as powerful as a sun/moon conjunction. this man could really be waiting in the wings to get the scepter. also, he has the Venus/Mars conjunction in Pisces so he should be empathetic but again Venus and Mars has a lot of drive and ambition when coupled together as they are in the conjunction. his Saturn at 1 Libra is square Uranus at 5 cancer so he does have his ideals held in check very much so once Jupiter enters into Leo which it does later this year, and conjuncts his moon, sometime next year, he may rise to the fore with or without Tony Blair Uranus has just finished conjunction with his sun, and that may be the impetuous he had to move up and away from being the underling of Blair. that's just a quick assessment, anyone else's opinions would be certainly as much on track as my own Posted by: Isabelle Ghaneh on May 19, 2004 05:57 PMPeg--in Greek "meta" very definitely means "after." Only by the widest stretch of interpretation could it be understood to mean "of the mind"--only through an interpolation from "after the physics", in other words "what is beyond the physical", i.e., the mind. from the American Heritage Dictionary (2nd College Ed.) I'm not sure where and when the "new age" meaning of "metaphysics" came from but I would be curious to know. Posted by: Timothy on May 19, 2004 06:23 PMInteresting commentary below on the elections in India. We can only hope the tide of change we see around the world in other elections of 2004 sweeps across this country as well. I wonder if the outster of the rabid BJP party in India can be correlated with the upcoming Venus transit. http://www.counterpunch.org/prashad05192004.html Posted by: Timothy on May 19, 2004 06:41 PMGee Timothy, I was taught "meta" was a prefix from the latin meaning outside or beyond - particularly referring to medical terms e.g. metacarpus - but then I guess that in itself could also mean end. What a funny language we have evolved. No wonder the lawyers tie us all up in knots. Posted by: Jeanie on May 19, 2004 07:20 PMI meant to add - I always understood the term metaphysics would mean beyond/outside physics. Posted by: Jeanie on May 19, 2004 07:26 PMWow, what an amazing discussion thread. Metaphysics, reincarnation and politics! My sleeping friends are missing the greatest show on earth~ Corleonis, I just love the notion that when Caligula shuffled off this mortal coil, he retained his genocidal leanings and imperial aspirations but lost his oratory skills!!! bwahahaha!!! Seeing as how Bu$h is STILL not learning any life lessons, I wonder which aspect of his persona will be lost after this incarnation? Maybe in the year 3087 he'll come back as a data entry clerk with aspirations of grandeur and a nasty disposition... Since I was sort of the one that started the Barbara Bu$h bashing, I just want to say that while it IS easy to blame the mothers for the bad seeds that wasn't why I said all of the genetic malfeasance leads to her. I remember reading an interview with Babs once where she let a very revealing comment out. She said something about how she was pretty easy on the boys when they were growing up and she only hit them with the broom handle when they really deserved it. This was early in Bu$h's presidency when I read this and I remember thinking "we're in big trouble." I humbly submit that one topic we should start wrapping our minds around is this: Now that the press are turning on Bu$h (Hersh seems to have opened the gates, and the allegations of abuse on the press corp are whipping the media into a frenzy) the "disinformation card" is slipping away from the Cabal. This means for the cabal to hang onto power the "terror" card is becoming more likely. Anthrax outbreaks maybe, but who knows. That rocket launcher near the airport is an ominous sign. I'm not trying to increase fear, I'm just trying to anticipate what the cabal is likely to try next. Of course, without their media puppets it's going to be very difficult for them to con the public at large (if the fourth estate will do it's frikkin' job!) The last option they could play would be full out martial law. Now this is the murkiest area to forsee, because nobody outside of Iraq really knows what sort of nightmarish experiences have been building all this time. We're getting more of an idea with stories of maimed soldiers, gunned down civilians, and depeleted uranium, but I tend to get the idea that the armed forces keep their cards close to their chest. What are the chances that Bu$h would play the martial law card and have the army turn on him? Do you follow me? Bu$h's perception he has so meticulously crafted for himself (and in the minds of the vast sleeping masses) is that he is the *Supreme* Commander-in-Chief. The top of the pyramid in the military system. I wonder about the possibility that he would command the armed forces and they would turn on their master. Of course, my perception is such that the Bu$h cabal will *never* voluntarily give up power, and in that frame of mind, whichever side the army stands on is the side that is going to end up with the power when it's all over. It has been said before, but what is really going on is that the Bu$h cabal has realized that this is as far as they can push their established tactics. The mask is slipping which, although delicious, means the true ugliness is about to be exposed. As happy as I am that they are imploding, now is where the REAL work begins. To me, what needs to play out is an International War Crimes Tribunal needs to form to try the cabal for war crimes. An international force needs to come to our White House and slap the cuffs on George and the gang, and we as Americans are going to have to let them. Then once that's over, we need to hold John Kerry (or whomever) with an even *more* intense scrutiny and accountability than we held his predecessor. It will NOT be time to go back to sleep and that is going to be the most challenging, because Americans are going to want to. Only then can we begin to repair the damage done and make the changes in this country and in our government that need to happen. ~D Posted by: Dommael on May 19, 2004 07:39 PMRight on, Dommael, right on! Everyone can see that the prisoner abuse is a violation of the Geneva Convention, but perhaps what is slowing dawning upon the American consciousness is that the whole war is a war crime. In the past only the vanquished would face war crimes trials; but if Bush could actually be brought before the judges (I know I'm dreamin') it would be the best thing that ever happened to this country and perhaps the greatest leap forward in the evolution of the human species--for then it would be clear that no one, no matter how powerful, is above the law; and no one, not even the leader of the most powerful military force on earth, can wage a war of aggression. Posted by: Timothy on May 19, 2004 08:09 PMI think in this age of globalization, the increase of cia role and the privatization creep of military operations to facilitate nefarious deeds while avoiding accountability and oversight, has to be put squarely in focus if we ever hope to dismantle the pnac crowd. Posted by: Jeanie on May 19, 2004 08:15 PMDommael: Your comments are very interesting. I concur. Mark Lerner has done an extensive astrology study of Bush & Martial Law. There are about 4-5 articles on it and very interesting. Posted by: Beverly on May 19, 2004 08:16 PMRegarding previous lifetimes of George Bush. According to a new book "The Return of the Revolutionaries" he was a Col. Daniel Morgan, a hero of the Battle of Saratoga. During the French Indian Wars, he served with the Virginia Rangers. George Washington selected him as Commander of the countrys first special forces unit. His personality traits included roudiness, drinking and brawling and lusty flirtations with Indian women. hi all, just a quick note that i was referring to saturn entering into leo next year and that aspect would conjunct gordon browns moon, and saturn can elevate us to more responsible positions in the world, so next year, i think he will rise in his party, one way or another even if not on the national stage, though that could be in the works Posted by: Isabelle Ghaneh on May 19, 2004 10:10 PMHeh! We must find Abigail Curry! Maybe he will leave office and take up REAL farming! Posted by: Pat on May 19, 2004 10:44 PMTimothy, I studied Philosophy in college late in life... took an entire semester on Plato, followed by Aristotle. Most professors will say that Aristotle didn’t write much, Plato was the writer. His lectures were saved by his students, and they read like a lecture, until you get to ‘Metaphysics’ and there is a little more eloquence, but not enough for some of us (I prefer Plato to Aristotle - most folks have a preference to one or the other). Shylurker studied philosophy also, and may have 2 cents to add! Aristotle begins his treatment of ontology in the Categories, in the tradition of Plato and Parmenides {considered the father of metaphysics); he looks to language to reveal what we know about reality - ‘what is’: for Aristotle ‘that which is’ ... is Substance, that is either perishable or eternal, and contains always the potentiality for actuality (as opposed to Pure substance, which is pure actualization, and has no potential). If something is actualized, it must once have been potentiality, or it could not have ‘changed’. We as humans have the event potentiality of perishing (actuality), but the celestial bodies, which are eternal and never perish, change in their local motion, constantly move, and thus always have potentiality. [or, we might call this Astrology 101!] Later in life, Aristotle expanded on his thoughts in the Categories, and wrote ‘Metaphysics’ -- Timothy, I think this is what is meant by terms from Philosophy dictionaries and such, that because the students placed it ‘after the sciences’ of Aristotle, that is how it derives its meaning. However, the word meant more than that, even in Aristotle’s time, for this is what he has to say: “A science is divine if it is peculiarly the possession of God, or if it is concerned with divine matters. And this science [i.e., metaphysics] alone fulfills both these conditions; for (a) all believe that God is one of the causes and a kind of principle, and (b) God is the sole or chief possessor of this sort of knowledge. Accordingly, although all other sciences are more necessary that this, none is more excellent.” Aristotle is describing metaphysics - the first philosophy, the ‘divine’ science... which is studied for no practical purpose, but in the pursuit of wisdom - to know the causes and principles of ‘being’ - what is - Metaphysics is free in the same sense as an individual (man, in ancient Greece) is free... I would say that the term refers to that which is beyond the physical, generally - however, I’m sure it can have a much more inclusive meaning. Words are symbols anyway, right? So, if they come to mean something different for us... that’s fine. [I would bring your attention to the fact that the word ‘god’ has been inserted in translation... for the Greeks had no such word. They spoke of what we translate to be ‘deity’, but as Aristotle explains above, “‘god’ is one of the causes and a kind of principle”]
Abigail Curry has reincarnated as Condi - who seems to think that GWB is her "husband" as seen in her recent Freudian slip! Posted by: Baraka on May 19, 2004 11:05 PMhttp://www.sltrib.com/2004/Apr/04272004/commenta/commenta.asp Posted by: Teresa on May 19, 2004 11:09 PMIt is getting HOT over there for the puppet Blair. that Maureen Dowd certainly comes straight to the Her entire article is about how things are perceived in "Bushworld". All should read as posted above by Teresa. Posted by: Pallas18 on May 20, 2004 12:50 AMTimothy (and Jo) You certainly are both learned in Aristotle and However your understanding of the body of works is not what is referred to "in the vernacular" today as "metaphysics". Notice the small m. As a teacher of metaphysics for the past 25 years And so that you may be assured that meta physic 11 entries found for meta. A river, about 1,102 km (685 mi) long, of northeast Colombia flowing partially along the border with Venezuela. [Download or Buy Now] meta- or met- Later in time: metestrus. CHANGE; TRANSFORMATION: metachromatism. Beyond; transcending; more comprehensive: metalinguistics. Derivative or related chemical substance: metaprotein. Is Bush the Anti-Buddha? "Thai Buddhist professor Sulak Sivaraksa likens Bush to Hitler and Stalin, arguing that his declaration of an 'Axis of Evil,' Hitler's 'Final Solution,' and Stalin's pogrom of peasants were actually similar attempts "to perfect the world by destroying its [perceived] impurities." Bush has withdrawn the U.S. from nearly all cooperative efforts for the planet like international treaties for nuclear disarmament, and initiatives like the Kyoto Accord to abate climate instability. Even if Bush does not win reelection, or otherwise get elected, the damage he has done will live on in the form of zealots in judicial robes that will set misguided legal precedents for hundreds of years. His is the zealotry and the extremism that Shakyamuni Buddha spent his life defining as the cause of suffering. How does a student of the Dharma deal with the rising temptation to wish ill will on the perpetrators of such shocking and detestable undertakings? To the specter of four more years of Bush, what is an appropriate Buddhist response? While it's important to recognize the full scope of the damage generated by this President and his cronies, and understandable to feel bitter, the Dharma clearly counsels us against hating our enemies. As Buddhists, we can assume that Bush-hating doesn't help anyone. Buddhist philosophy is centered on non-duality, the unity of all things, so we must concede that we ourselves are not separate from the corruption and unprincipled behavior of those who represent us. It is in fact an old political axiom that people get the government they deserve. As Thich Nhat Hanh might say, the Bush Regime is made up of non-Bush elements, and there are Bush-like behaviors in every family, and in every mind. Hated by the Viet Cong for being CIA and by the CIA for being Viet Cong, Nhat Hanh is famously loved for his plea that we transform anger through meditation and heal it by putting our loving kindness into practical action. Martin Luther King Jr. taught that true nonviolence means "you not only refuse to shoot a man, but you refuse to hate him." "If we could read the secret history of our enemies," Longfellow reminded us, "we should find in each man's life sorrow and suffering enough to disarm all hostility." Bush deserves our appreciation because he gives us a need to practice and thus to progress along the path. The Dalai Lama often speaks of the Chinese with gratitude, saying they have given him the "unavoidable opportunity" to practice compassion and cultivate forgiveness and understanding. Zen-Benedictine Brother David Steindl-Rast and Joan Halifax Roshi teach radical gratefulness, which posits that in every difficult or painful circumstance there is an opportunity for gratitude. Adversity can show us how well we have mastered our minds, how far along the path we have progressed. Asked how those in the dharma should respond to times like these, and how they should live their lives in a world where evil runs like an open sewer, the great Tibetan master Thrangu Rinpoche said "You must counter the negative energy with as much positive thought and action as you can possibly muster. You must unceasingly sustain Bodhisattva action." It is the Buddha's teaching to make of ourselves an example, a light, a beacon. What a practice opportunity has been thrust upon us!" More at link http://www.buddhistnews.tv/current/bush-180504.php -------------------------------- Petty Tyrants indeed! Tsumani (sp) of Petty Tyrants... I'm going to be on this wheel a long time! Namaste Posted by: Jo on May 20, 2004 01:03 AMJoanneOregon: thanks for the VV link for bushs affiliation for the rapture people, i am still trying to figure out how the evil spirit got into the harry potter book the spokeswoman for one of the rapture people said opressed her. did he/she/it manifest itself at the publishing house, or just from the book itself left lying in the apartment she sublet? maybe jk rowling could help us out here. Posted by: Isabelle Ghaneh on May 20, 2004 01:04 AMJo--I always preferred reading Plato to Aristotle too. Apparently Aristotle actually wrote works for publication but all were lost and all we have are lecture notes. My point is that the term does not refer, properly, to what is beyond the physical. That understanding would certainly fit Plato's metaphysics as he thought that what is real are the eternal "Forms" that exist in the realm outside the cave of appearances (the physical). Aristotle disagreed and thought that the "forms" were in the things and not beyond them. This difference in metaphysical viewpoints is nicely illustrated in Raphael's Renaissance painting "The School of Athens" which shows Plato pointing upwards to the heavens and Aristotle pointing downwards to the earth. http://www.artchive.com/artchive/R/raphael/school_athens.jpg.html The point is, they had very different views about what reality is but both views are answers to the great question of metaphysics. Someone who thinks there is nothing beyond the physical is putting forth a metaphysical view just as much as anyone who thinks reality is not confined to the physical. Posted by: Timothy on May 20, 2004 01:09 AM Dommael, Both Sally and I have ruminated about what you have posted: "The last option they could play would be full out martial law. Now this is the murkiest area to forsee, because nobody outside of Iraq really knows what sort of nightmarish experiences have been building all this time. We're getting more of an idea with stories of maimed soldiers, gunned down civilians, and depeleted uranium, but I tend to get the idea that the armed forces keep their cards close to their chest. What are the chances that Bu$h would play the martial law card and have the army turn on him? Do you follow me? Bu$h's perception he has so meticulously crafted for himself (and in the minds of the vast sleeping masses) is that he is the *Supreme* Commander-in-Chief. The top of the pyramid in the military system. I wonder about the possibility that he would command the armed forces and they would turn on their master. Of course, my perception is such that the Bu$h cabal will *never* voluntarily give up power, and in that frame of mind, whichever side the army stands on is the side that is going to end up with the power when it's all over. It has been said before, but what is really going on is that the Bu$h cabal has realized that this is as far as they can push their established tactics. The mask is slipping which, although delicious, means the true ugliness is about to be exposed." I don;t think the recent revelations of what has been occuring in this administration and the true I suspect strongly now that if dimson attempted to declare martial law and put a final stake in the heart of democracy in this country, and his plans leaked to the "powers", he might be dispatched by those very 'powers' before the American public ever knew he was about to declare The disgusting abuse of the Reuters reporters: http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000513625 Posted by: Pallas18 on May 20, 2004 01:35 AMPallas18, the US progressed 6th house cusp is 27 degrees Capricorn conj. the US Pluto (Saturn will oppose that this fall) Pluto has progressed to 29 degrees Capricorn, Saturn will oppose natal and progressed Pluto in the fall. Transiting Pluto goes stationary direct inconj the US Natal 6th house cusp (19degrees 33min Taurus) in late Aug. I have been watching this coming for three years and have wondered if the energy could possibly play out as a military coup against the administration or marshall law being declared. If I look at karma as cause and effect, Bush's 6th house (military in mundane astrology) in Capricorn and he has his 2nd Saturn return. With Saturn being the Karmic Kop and balancing things out, he turned his back on the military without reprisals, will the military now abandon him. As June arrives and Saturn hits 12 degrees we will get a better picture of how this might play out for him. Posted by: Sally on May 20, 2004 01:44 AMThere is a great deal of fear on this board again. Is there an asteroid or fixed star that signifies hope or the future? Posted by: Teresa on May 20, 2004 01:56 AMI have to say that I have very much enjoyed the discussion of "metaphysics," a term which seems to have metamorphasized since classical Greece times. It has been been a special pleasure watching all of you flex your respective erudite muscles, and I think the participants have enjoyed it, too. On the other hand, remember what Shakespeare said about the rose... Posted by: Sharon Katz on May 20, 2004 02:12 AMThese fundies in control of texas are getting even more brazen http://www.bradenton.com/mld/bradenton/news/nation/8689409.htm Sally, after reading your post I was about to say, pass the popcorn. But on second thought, I think things might be too serious for such a callous response. I just hope Bush leaves so that the country can have time to heal. Posted by: Janet on May 20, 2004 02:27 AM
Teresa there is much to hope for however this period of time must be navigated. The very negatives happening now are actually quite positive. They are creating an atmosphere of a wake up call for the American people as we are given a glimpse of what we have become, it opens the door for us to be free of illusions and build something better, more honest and a more authentic people. If you think back to January 1, 1900 and if someone then had told you all that would happen in the 20th Century would any of us have wanted to go forward? I think not, but we did go forward and built something better. While there were wars, depression, child slavery, no vote for women or blacks, people not allowed to participate, in fact murdered for trying to participate in the American dream. There were floods, volcanos, tornados, earthquakes that changed the landscape but the human spirit kept moving kept cleaning up the messes and kept creating, in fact thriving. Well, something better can come of all this and we can be a part of the creation. Posted by: Sally on May 20, 2004 02:36 AMTimothy, "Aristotle disagreed and thought that the "forms" were in the things and not beyond them." That's my point... Aristotle wrote that in the Categories... but HIS "Metaphysics" which came later in life speaks to that which is "being" -- “A science is divine if it is peculiarly the possession of God, or if it is concerned with divine matters. And this science [i.e., metaphysics] alone fulfills both these conditions; for (a) all believe that God is one of the causes and a kind of principle, and (b) God is the sole or chief possessor of this sort of knowledge. Accordingly, although all other sciences are more necessary that this, none is more excellent.” You are correct in that he focused on the material, but I think the late work shows Plato's influence on him. In fact, I could barely tolerate reading him with all the categories and blah, blah, and finally we reached "Metaphysics" and I thought, okay, I'll get through this course now. It may be that Plato is simply a hard act to follow. Anyway, glad to know you also like Plato. This certainly is an interesting board! BTW, what did you think about the comments in the second paragraph about the celestial bodies. He would have made a great astrologer in another life, don't you think?
We here have often commented on dimson's Pluto Mercury conjunction..... thanks to Beverly I googled Mark Lerner's Welcome Keep in mind he wrote the following in 2003. "President George W. Bush's Mercury-Pluto Conjunction http://www.mcn.org/greatbear/as5.htm In the beginning of this series, I explained the power of Mercury and Pluto united on the horizon in Leo for our current president. It is crucial to understand because America was born on July 4, 1776 with Mercury retrograde in late Cancer closely opposing Pluto retrograde in late Capricorn. Presidents Lincoln, Truman, Clinton and now George W. Bush are born with this union. It is a clear signal that something extreme (the nature of Mercury combined with Pluto) is going to happen in our country when such a person becomes president! So, when you look back, you see it. President Lincoln -- born with Mercury conjunct Pluto in Pisces -- was president during the Civil War and suffered the first assassination as our nation's leader. President Truman -- born with Mercury conjunct Pluto in early Gemini -- dropped the atomic bombs (nuclear energy is related to Pluto) on Japan. President Clinton -- with Mercury conjunct Pluto in Leo -- exposed the sexual side of the presidency. And now President George W. Bush is our leader during and after the September 11, 2001 terrorist bombings in America. There is one more president who came into the world with a Mercury-Pluto union. That person was William Henry Harrison (born on February 9, 1773). He was another Sun-sign Aquarian president who only served in the White House for 32 days! He was inaugurated on March 4, 1841 and refused to wear a coat or hat even though the weather was cold and stormy. He gave an inaugural address of 8,578 words -- the longest ever by a president. His demise began at the ceremonies -- a chill and illness that led to pneumonia and pleurisy. He died on April 4, 1841. His Mercury and Pluto were in late Capricorn and within 6 degrees of a conjunction. His Mercury was within 1 degree of America's Pluto from July 4, 1776. It was his death -- close to the first Jupiter-Saturn conjunction in earth signs (8+ degree Capricorn placement on January 26, 1842 -- an event called "The Great Mutation" in astrology) -- that began the entire curse on U.S. presidents every 20 years since then. Harrison was the first president to die while in office and he had a very close Pythagorean Triangle in his natal chart composed of the Sun at 21+ Aquarius, Uranus at 20+ Taurus, and the Moon at 20+ Virgo. In fact, his Uranus is conjunct the USA natal Vesta (safety/security themes again) and his Uranus is exactly where Uranus would be on October 18, 1939 when Lee Harvey Oswald was born. This is very fascinating because it places the Mercury-Pluto conjunction right in the midst of the entire assassination history. It's as though this union acts as a kind of lightning rod for extremism. When Mercury comes into contact with Pluto by conjunction, the traditional "Messenger of the Gods" is taken over by the potential "dark side of the force." The Plutonic vibrations of the underworld, mystery, death-rebirth themes, extreme transformation and metamorphosis may start wreaking havoc on communication, intelligence, transportation, business and the principles of inter-connection among all life on earth and in humanity. Now think about the dire happenings in America since the election of George W. Bush -- who is born with Mercury conjunct Pluto rising, very close to America's fateful Lunar North Node, and also on the Heliocentric North Node of Neptune. Because America itself has Mercury Rx opposite Pluto Rx, there are many secrets within our government -- like the "Black Operations" and "Black Budget" we always hear rumors about. This is part of America's hidden agenda -- something that is never admitted by presidents and remains below the surface of national consciousness (Pluto as a symbol for the unconscious). It is possible that some of this may eventually become exposed in the years to come if the national economy falters and any presidential scandals appear on the scene. Three Asteroids Reveal President Bush's Vulnerable Side If you take even a cursory look at the president's chart, you will see Vesta at 3+ Aries in his 9th house, Ceres retrograde at 10+ Aquarius in his 7th house, and Pallas retrograde at 4+ Capricorn in his 5th house. These three asteroids are the only celestial bodies in the western hemisphere of the birthchart. The western side of the chart has always been synonymous with other people and also -- potentially -- giving up your power to others. One usually identifies closely with planets at the rising area while the planets that are setting are more of qualities that are distant from you -- that are represented by other people coming into your life and symbolizing those energies. President Bush is NOT an asteroid type of guy. Except for the strength of Juno in Libra (representing marriage) -- conjunct his Chiron, Moon and Jupiter -- the other three asteroids are part of the president's weakness. Remember that Vesta is connected to national and personal safety and security; Pallas is the shield and intelligence to make someone immune from harm. President George W. Bush has these two asteroids closely squaring each other. We have already learned in this study that the president's natal Vesta at 3+ Aries is exactly conjunct John Wilkes Booth's Venus and the Moon at 3+ Aries (in the 8th house) is the lunar placement at the Jupiter-Saturn union of May 28, 2000. John Wilkes Booth also had Juno at 3+ Capricorn -- within 1 degree of our current president's natal Pallas. We know Booth was a big Vesta (safety/security) figure in our history because his Sun at 19+ Taurus was exactly on America's Vesta from July 4, 1776. Over and over again, we have seen the power of this small and yet bright asteroid that has only been studied by astrologers since 1972. Looking at a larger pattern for President George W. Bush, it is clear that Vesta in Aries opposes Neptune in Libra -- with Pallas in Capricorn as the pivot or fulcrum of a tense, T-Square triangle. In the future, our president's ability to escape disaster may depend on transits activating this astrological triangle! With Uranus, Saturn, Pluto and Mars occupying the 1th, 12th, 1st and 2nd houses at his birth, the president is much more identified personally with these archetypal energies. We might even say he has a "military-industrial complex" of his own psychically. His Saturn/Pluto midpoint (a heavyweight combination that can be linked with extreme determination, but also ruthlessness) is within a few degrees of his Ascendant in Leo and his Sun/Pluto midpoint is on his Saturn within less than 1 degree. These patterns suggest someone who has a secret agenda that is based on power, control, money, entrenched forces within leadership positions. Nevertheless, because he has Mercury rising and Venus in the 1st house in upbeat, loving and cheerful Leo, he can also give a broad smile and broadcast a happy and joyful countenance -- while intense and mysterious actions may be happening hidden from the light of day. The transit of Neptune in Aquarius -- now in his 7th house for the first time in his life and opposing his natal Pluto throughout this year and particularly this fall -- indicates that any deceptions in his life and with others will prove costly. Hence, all the confusion internationally about whether we lied concerning Saddam Hussein's Weapons of Mass Destruction and whether we really wanted to take him out so that we could establish American power in oil-rich Iraq. This is why the president could find himself in a nasty scandal -- coinciding with Saturn crossing his Sun at 13+ Cancer this fall and next spring, a cycle that last happened in August 1974 when President Nixon resigned in disgrace due to the Watergate Scandal. Saturn is the traditional planet of old karma and the sins of the father being revisited on future generations. I have already shared that President George W. Bush's natal Saturn is conjunct President Kennedy's Saturn and that both presidents have Saturn closely opposite the USA Pluto in Capricorn. And here's one more important note on safety-oriented and security-focused Vesta at 3+ Aries for President George W. Bush. Due to his Progressed Vesta shifting retrograde in 1977, he will have a very rare Progressed Vesta return to its natal placement in 2006-2007! Thus, if the president is re-elected, his Vesta energy -- internally -- will be at a white-hot fever pitch in those years. That's during the time that the USA Progressed Mars stops at 18+ Libra and turns retrograde. This will be the first time ever that America's Progressed Mars (energy; power drive; warfare; military; bloodshed; violence) will have paused, shifted and gone into reverse. The other main meanings for Vesta are home and hearth! Finally, be aware of this stunning reality. We already know from my previous research that on January 20, 2005 (the next presidential inauguration), transiting Jupiter at 18+ Libra will have returned to its natal placement for President George W. Bush. In general, this would certainly be a positive indicator that he may survive through the tumultuous election battles of 2004 to win and go on to second term in office. On January 20, 2005, there will be another celestial body returning to its natal placement for our president: Vesta in the sky at 3+ Aries will be back to its natal position for George W. Bush! In an astounding example of astrological synchronicity, we see that this celestial body Vesta -- so much the star of our research on presidential assassinations and the need to keep our chief executive secure, safe and out of harm's way -- will make its presence known on the next inauguration day in dramatic fashion. Surely, this cannot be mere chance and coincidence. It is some kind of divine, stellar orchestration at work for a hidden purpose. Isolating Mars, Vesta and Uranus If you put my feet to the fire and ask which planets I would watch most carefully regarding future assassination attempts against a U.S. president, my answer is: Mars, Vesta and Uranus. Mars because of its traditional link to violence, bloodshed, murder, danger, accidents, inflammatory behavior and the action of the assassination itself. Vesta -- clearly from our study -- because it is a main celestial body relating not only to national/personal safety and security, but to those governmental groups (like the Secret Service) that are organized to protect the president from harm. In each of the four, successful assassinations against U.S. presidents, the security system failed and failed miserably. It's a manifestation of negative Vesta. And Uranus is an obvious choice because of its links to revolutionary happenings, surprise, sudden acts that create topsy-turvy situations, shocking events, coup d'etat and overthrow of authority and the established order, and the like. You can go back through these five articles and realize how often these three celestial bodies are involved in the nitty-gritty of presidential assassinations in our history. When I wrote about the up-and-coming, highly potent Total Solar Eclipse of November 23, 2003, I also indicated that almost every New and Full Moon chart, Equinox and Solstice map that will happen during the rest of 2003 -- when calculated for Washington, D.C. -- has ominous overtones for the nation, the chief executive and the powers of the presidency. I mentioned earlier that the Heliocentric North Node of Mars is located at 19+ Taurus -- America's natal Vesta degree. And Vesta's Heliocentric North Node is focused at 13+ Cancer -- the Sun placement for America and President George W. Bush. What this does is to more forcefully integrate the cosmic power of Mars (warfare) and Vesta (security and safety) into our national horoscope structure. It also serves as a warning for all future presidents and vice presidents. You may think you are protected, but are you really? The events of September 11, 2001 were extraordinary anyway, but a strike against the White House might have plunged the nation into a completely irreversible course of martial law -- the ultimate victory for those forces allied against our country and its history of freedoms and religious/ethnic tolerance and understanding." Posted by: Pallas18 on May 20, 2004 02:58 AM Sally, I have been thinking of my Mom and how glad I am that she did not see what we see today. But with all this horrific news we deal with daily, I would like to share some good news! tPluto is opposing my nSun and there is much going on in the way of change in my family, most of it loss or trauma. But two weeks ago, my father received a call from my brother in California, saying he wanted my Dad to say hello to his new son. Dad responded were you finally able to adopt a son? My brother and his wife are childless, which has been one of the sorrows of my brother's life. He has been 'Uncle John' forever. My brother replied no, he's MY son. And so the story transpired that 33 years ago, after a brief relationship with a young lady whom he's never since heard from, a child was born. My brother knew nothing of the pregnacy or the birth. We don't know how in the world this young man tracked him down, but he did. And we are all so happy, for we lost a nephew a few years ago -- in his late twenties... and my brother and I lost two siblings... in the past ten years. But most of all, we are so happy to have found this treasure. So, take another look at those difficult transits you may be having. Along with the stress and loss and the bumps in the road, sometimes comes joyful surprises! Blessed be... Peace Posted by: Jo on May 20, 2004 03:00 AMI'm sorry to say that the cover up by the 9 -11 I just heard former Cngressman Lee Hamilton say After all the testimony WE know there were warnings of using airplanes in attacks. They're going to let Bush, Rice and Rumsfeld, Tenant and Teresa you posted "There is a great deal of fear on this board again. Hell, Teresa! That isn't fear. It's hope! Posted by: Pallas18 on May 20, 2004 03:12 AMPallas18,
Your last post above was very timely for me per- I am barely coming out of a square of Saturn to Thanks, Sally. Posted by: corleonis on May 20, 2004 03:17 AMThe board is rocking! Soooooo many great minds here! Pallas18, Sally and all, thanks for giving my "martial law" post so much thought and insight. Again, I'm not trying to encourage an atmosphere of fear, rather I'm trying to dissipate it. In other worlds, I got my copy of Newsweek today, featuring the "Left Behind" authors Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins (hey, the subscription was a gift from my mother! Otherwise, I'd never support such mainstream media corporate fascist propaganda) On page 49 Jenkins says "I know I'm never going to be revered as some classic writer. I don't claim to be C.S. Lewis. The literary-type writers, I admire them. I wish I was smart enough to write a book that's hard to read, you know?" Now I know I'm biased. And I know I have a very narrow perspective and it's hard for me to see things from the other person's point of view. But anyone who would slam C.S. Lewis is an effin' idiot. Just wanted to make that contribution to the thread.
I am just thrilled for your brother and your family. What wonderful news!!! One more reason for me to snap out of my 'mood'. Much love and blessings to all of you. Posted by: corleonis on May 20, 2004 03:28 AMJo~ how wonderful! A funny thing about this new species of Gopper And these are the very same who consistently break the law, or circument the law, or bend the law, or totally ignore the law. And it occurred to me today, that what they mean Probably the most important sentence which Mark Lerner wrote, keeping in mind that dimson has "When Mercury comes into contact with Pluto by conjunction, the traditional "Messenger of the Gods" is taken over by the potential "dark side of the force." The Plutonic vibrations of the underworld, mystery, death-rebirth themes, extreme transformation and metamorphosis may start wreaking havoc on communication, intelligence, transportation, business and the principles of inter-connection among all life on earth and in humanity. end of quote Mark sure has dimson down to a T. Posted by: Pallas18 on May 20, 2004 04:57 AMIt seems like the news has been quiet for a few days, in relative terms of course. What are the next big dates to look for in terms of the downfall of the Bush administration? Posted by: Dave on May 20, 2004 06:15 AMmore on definition of metaphysics: http://www.bartleby.com/61/85/M0248500.html My point again is that any view on the nature of reality is a metaphysical view. Would still love to take your course on "metaphysics" Pallas.... Somehow missed those posts above that referenced Thai Buddhist activist Sulak Sivarasksa. I am very much looking forward to his June 25 appearance here sponsored in part by our local chapter of the Buddhist Peace Fellowship.
Orginally one of our readers sent me this, Joanna, later I've seen it on several sites and am grateful it's being passed around. I am inserting the article here although some of you may have read it. I was thrilled with the information because it helps to understand what on earth these people are thinking. End Times: The bushies may be accomplishing what liberals never could -- bringing the era of conservative morality to a close.
Those developments, important as they are, don't really show us the big picture. The meta-story here is that we are watching the total collapse of conservative morality. Liberals and conservatives, as George Lakoff and others have observed, operate according to distinct moral systems. Lakoff's research has tended to emphasize the moral universes of individual liberals and conservatives; liberals believe in questioning authority, conservatives believe in respecting authority, that sort of thing. But the differences in the two moral systems also play out on the social or civic plane, and not just on the individual level. And in that civic sphere, the differences come down to this: Liberals believe in public morality and in adherence to democratic process, while conservatives value personal morality and positive, efficiently achieved results. What has happened at Abu Ghraib specifically and in Iraq generally are, in fact, direct expressions of conservative morality unchecked. And it's clearer every week that conservative morality is a contradiction in terms, and that the American people are coming around to that view. I think this theory explains, well, basically everything. For example: How many conversations have you had with a fellow liberal, discussing the latest administration effrontery, that concluded with one of you asking the other some version of, "How can it possibly be that this isn't considered a scandal?!" Indeed, liberals have watched this administration in a state of perpetual disbelief about the number of stories that should have blown up into scandals but never did. From Harken Energy to Thomas White and Enron to the Tom Scully-Richard Foster-Medicare story to the more general rancid politicization of every agency of government, the potential scandals have been nonstop. And liberals, who care about public integrity and process, can't comprehend that these things haven't become full-fledged scandals. There are particular reasons they haven't -- no smoking gun was found on Harken, for instance. But the big historical reason they haven't is that we live in an age in which conservative morality is dominant. Public morality and adherence to democratic process just aren't as important. In the 1960s and ’70s, when we lived in an era of liberal morality, those two qualities were more important, and the kinds of scandals we had then? Watergate, most obviously, but smaller-fry dustups like the Bert Lance affair reflected the privileged position of those concerns. Liberals didn't care so much about personal morality, and while they cared about positive results, they were less likely to bend rules to achieve them. (It's worth remembering, too, that as far as public service in this country was concerned, liberals wrote most of the rules.) But beginning in the 1980s, conservatives successfully discredited liberal morality and substituted their own. Now, personal morality was pre-eminent -- Ronald Reagan as the stand-up man's man, contrasted with Bill Clinton, or at least with the image of Clinton that the right successfully peddled, as a licentious and corner-cutting and self-indulgent baby boomer. That Clinton was nearly brought down in the web of a personal-morality scandal was a reflection not only of his own weaknesses of the flesh but also of the fact that this was the sort of thing conservatives cared most about and sought most fiercely to expose. To them, Clinton’s personal failings disqualified him from capable public service, and they got the mainstream media to agree with them (though, fortunately, not the majority of the country). The packaging of George W. Bush in 1999 and 2000 was nothing less than a conservative morality play. He was a "good man"; he'd gotten himself off the sauce and found Jesus; he didn't, as far as anyone knew, play around on his wife. Meanwhile, as governor of Texas, he'd squelched an investigation into a funeral-home chain run by a friend; he'd stacked the board of the University of Texas Investment Management Company, a huge deal that no major national media ever took a close, sustained look at; he kept starting failing businesses, losing money, and somehow getting richer and richer. But none of these issues, all having directly to do with public morality, mattered. He was a good, strong man who "got results" for Texas and would do the same for America. Bush used such language often early in his administration to describe his appointees: They were good people, and the rest of us should trust them. His famous remark that he and Russian President Vladimir Putin "looked into each other's souls" provided another case in point: The policies Putin was pursuing -- his public morality, from undemocratic (the Russia media) to disastrous (Chechnya) -- weren't important. What was important was that Putin, too, was a good, strong man who has certainly, after a fashion, gotten "results." What's this got to do with Iraq? Everything. Rumsfeld was another one who was sold to us as a good, strong man. He reveled in the image, and the press, especially after September 11, went right along ("You're America's stud!" Tim Russert once gushed to him). Paul Wolfowitz, the neocons in general -- strong men who knew exactly what the United States needed to do in the world and who didn't have time for all this sissified diplo-speak with the United Nations and the French, all fit into this process. They would eliminate al-Qaeda. They'd corral Saddam Hussein and bring democracy to Iraq. And they'd do it all as a function of their personal morality, their intense will. If they bent a few rules, well, they were on the side of good versus evil, and they were making one of history's grandest omelettes. Eggs would be broken. That's the way it is. Read Hersh's piece in this context. Adherence to process was treated with contempt, never regarded as anything other than a roadblock to be circumvented. "Since 9-11, we've changed the rules on how we deal with terrorism," a Pentagon consultant told Hersh, "and created conditions where the ends justify the means." And now, at Abu Ghraib, that "end" stands revealed as America's greatest disgrace before the rest of the world in decades -- to say nothing of the fact that al-Qaeda has been far more, not far less, active since 9-11, and that Iraq in general is in tatters. Their personal morality, to the extent they possessed it in the first place, is irrelevant. The results are calamitous. I'm not prepared to say that the American people are going to wake up tomorrow and say collectively, "Golly, we need to go back to an era of liberal morality." Liberal morality had its shortcomings, too, and liberal and Democratic politicians have to learn how to be comfortable again talking about issues in moral terms. But it is clear that conservative moral arguments -- chiefly about Iraq, but on other fronts as well -- are losing their hold on people. It's a shame it took this much mayhem, and a set of photographs, for this to happen. But it is happening, and it couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of people. http://www.prospect.org/web/printfriendly-view.ww?id=7739 Looking back at 2003 at a number of posts I made the 2003 eclipses (May and November 03 from memory) are still active and as they are triggered Jo, congratulations to your family on your recent addition!! I think yesterday I was feeling a little pessimistic because I overheard Tony Snow on Fox predicting a Bush win in November. Didn't intentionally listen to him but my mother who lives with me religiously watches Fox and I can only avoid it for so long. Is another presidential assassination a possibility? God, I hope not. That would make Cheney the actual president (I know he's probably in charge now) and people tend to rally behind the govt after something like that followed by intense disappointment when the acting pres fails to live up to their expectations ( or maybe in this case -- down). I know I'm rambling and I'm probably reading more into things than is there. In my defense I can only say that I've had Saturn transiting my Libra planets one by one and Neptune has been going back and forth over my Chiron in my 12th house. Supersensitive right now. Oops, gotta go pretend I'm working for a while. Posted by: Teresa on May 20, 2004 03:06 PMJo: how wonderful that the pluto transit brought a transformation into your family dynamic and for the positive along with some negatives-i have found personally that is what pluto does sometimes beautifully sometimes disasterously, but when pluto leaves there is a definite new birth, one way or another, it truly is the phoenix bird rising from the ashes, and i know i was witness to that personally in my own life- as an aside, i loved the fact that the wand in the harry potter books has a feather from the phoenix bird, showing how harry will rise from the ashes, after the horror of his parents death and abusive foster parents, that to me is the pluto transit dave - the next big transit for the US is the may 24th exact transit of pluto opposite mars in the US birth chart, using the sibly time, that might not trigger the downfall of the bush administration, but it could mean a lot more skullduggery going on in and around the US, and more bloodshed, etc. lets hope not, but once saturn conjuncts gwbs sun he personally will begin to reap what he has sown, and then watch for him to slide. Posted by: Isabelle Ghaneh on May 20, 2004 04:39 PMhttp://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/20/chalabi.raid/ U.S. Military Raids Chalabi's Home Chalabi aides said its part of a "smear campaign by the CIA" and U.S. Administrator Paul Bremer is trying to intimidate Chalabi because of his call for full Iraqi sovereignty and his insistence that the United Nations Food for Oil program be investigated. I must not be awake yet. Wasn't this the person we were going to hand Iraq over to on June 30th? Should I start making popcorn? Pallas you are right about the May 03 Eclipse but also the Aug. 11, 1999 grand cross eclipse is still in operation. I addressed both of these in May of 2003 in my "Let there be Light" article, and have been adding updates. GWB's Mars squares that eclipse point and Venus will turn stationary direct on that point. The 8/9/10 degree mutable signs are potent in the US Chart particularly Gemini. My own Saturn is at 10 degrees Gemini and my life has been tumultuous to say the least. I am attaching the quotes from that May 2003 article. Harmonic Concordance (Nov. 8/9, 2003) While full of interesting possibilities this isn’t the first time there has been the celestial treat of a grand sextile and it always holds the promise of opportunities and certainly this one is no exception. Aside from the possibilities written about by astrologers (and I suggest you read their interpretations) I noticed some pretty fascinating aspects. The first thing I noticed is at the time of the Eclipse the Sun and Moon have already passed the degrees of the other planets contained in the Grand Sextile, suggesting that whatever this relates to has already passed. The other thing I noticed is the Sun and Moon at 16 degrees Taurus/Scorpio aspects the 2001 Inaugural chart Mars by conjunction and opposition, and squares the Inaugural Mercury. With Mercury involved this points to some dramatic and inflammatory information. Eclipses build upon themselves and the noted Grand Fixed Cross Eclipse of Aug. 11, 1999 (massive earthquake in Turkey on this one) has Saturn and Mars at 16 degrees of Taurus and Scorpio. I don’t suggest an earthquake but I do suggest something dramatically unexpected in the United States. "Eclipses are sensitive points that keep on giving. An example of this (and watch your own chart) is the 9 degree Gemini Eclipse of May 31st.This same eclipse also fell at 9 degrees Gemini in 1965, 1984 and 2003. In GWB chart, 9 degrees Gemini squares his Mars, he was born just 66 days following the 1946 Eclipse (it also relates to his father’s chart, so something happened with Bush Sr. in May 1946) anyway in April 1984 George had a well reported conversion from drinking to Jesus. In 1965 George was a sophomore at Yale and I expect that’s where his drinking and drugs began in earnest. There is something going on with George this last weekend, a little Vodka, maybe a little beer, something and it relates to his drinking. Perhaps he’s just plain mean and arrogant so often found in a dry drunk. By the way George Bush’s pre-natal Eclipse falling on his pre-natal New Moon (both important aspects and pointers to a person’s life) is at 6/7 degrees Cancer. Saturn moves there in July. That’s a bummer." May 2003 is the last time this Eclipse happens at 9 Gemini at least for another 75 years, because it began in 1946 that's where you can start tracing the Neo-Con focus on wiping out FDR's legacy in earnest.At that time, several fomer Nazi's were hired for government jobs, some of them were high-ranking government jobs. NATO was formed in 1949 with the Moon and Saturn at 8 degree Virgo in a square to the sensitive Gemini eclipse. (the US Uranus is at 8 degree Gemini) And of course the Nazi Party formed in 1920, has it's Saturn at 8 degrees Virgo, that would certainly bring into question whether the Nazi's would go to war with the US. It also begs the question as to whether NATO would expel the US from their ranks if Europe becomes stronger or a super power. Personally, I think the May 2003 eclipse signals the beginning of the end of the neo-cons in American Politics for a while. The US rising power following WWII might be at the beginning of the end as well. Posted by: Sally on May 20, 2004 05:34 PMIt seems that nobody was killed in the Chalabi raid, but his computer and several documents were taken. Did Bu$h (and by "Bu$h" I mean his handlers) order this to get incriminating information in their power because they no longer trust Chalabi? Is this a ploy to give Chalabi credibility among Iraqi's by showing that he's no friend of ours? (if so, unlikely to work. Iraqi's do not suffer from short-term memory loss like the US.) Was this done by the faction in the government that are turning against their masters, and they are collecting info in preparation for the tsunami that's about to hit Bu$h? Does this have something to do with the head of the Iraqi Governing Council that was just killed? In what way? Questions questions... Dommael, I agree with you completely. There are alot of unanswered questions about this raid. I'm as perplexed as the next guy. But I don't think we're likely to get any real answers from Bush and company. But I felt I needed to reiterate the sentiments you expressed. What the hell were they doing? Is there an astologer who might be able to comment on this event. This is one case where astrology might be very useful. By looking at the astrological forces that were in play, we might be able to get some clue about what was going on. Posted by: Dave on May 20, 2004 08:18 PMIsabelle, your quote from Nietzsche is quite prescient: Sally, that Tomasky article is about the most hopeful thing I've read in a long, long time. I've always thought this Iraq catastrophe could undermine alot more than just this present Bush Administration. Hopefully, he is right and this Administration will be the undoing of the fundamentalist conservative morality that has dominated American culture for a generation. This is something I've been trying to write about for a long time, and so this article is very helpful. Thank you, thank you! This "revaluation of values" theme expressed in Tomasky's piece certainly seems to fit one possibility connected with the Venus eclipse. Your reflection on recent solar, lunar eclipses is also very much appreciated. This series of eclipses have been quite potent for me--the 99 Grand Cross Solar eclipse closely conjuncted my Sun and I would say it definitely continues to have an impact. The Sun of the Nov 8 Concordance eclipse fell exactly on my 7th house N.Node while Jupiter was exactly on natal Venus. Well, guess what, in December I met the love of my life and it turns out her birthday is . . . Nov 8! (Naah, I don't see any evidence supporting astrological analysis!!) Well it has certainly been an amazing transition that has been mostly very nice, but for the last couple of months I approached the May 4 eclipse with some trepidation. It turns out the eclipse birthday was not a happy one for my love as two days prior she was assaulted by a former boyfriend. He didn't attack her person but did signficant damage to her car. When she told me this I looked at the transits again on her birthday and noticed Mars was almost conjunct her Descendant. Then I looked at the May 4th transits and noticed she had Mars square natal Mars (in a 1st house stellium with Jupiter, Uranus and Pluto). I meditated on this for several weeks and then finally expressed my concerns to her and explained this eclipse period was a time to be especially centered and aware and careful. The eclipse week passed without incident, though I must say that every day I was watching my own breath. Then on this past Monday, the day of the Venus and Neptune stations, she and her daughter were involved in a frightening traffic accident. Somehow she pulled out into the highway and didn't see an approaching car that hit her full blast on her driver's side door. It is really a miracle that they came out of it with only minor bruises. The whole thing is such a shock. You can even see it coming (the eclipse transits) and not seem to be able to do anything about it. I guess its like that with the upcoming Venus eclipse and the Saturn transit to the US Sun. We can all see it coming but can seemingly do nothing more than prepare ourselves for the shock. From what all the brilliant astrologers on the site are saying we are all in for quite a ride this summer. All I can do is wish everyone love and light and hope that however difficult the next few months (and years) are, we will come out stronger and better for it. Sorry to take up so much space with personal reflection (hope it is worthwhile). I'll end with another quote from Nietzsche: "What does not destroy me, makes me stronger." Posted by: Timothy on May 20, 2004 08:35 PMFor an excellent essay on the Chalabi story: Agreed, Dave. I'm surfing around and everybody is pointing fingers at everybody else on this one. Chalabi is saying Bremer has lost his mind. Rummy is saying the Iraqi's are responsible, he didn't know about it because he's too busy dealing with Interro-gate, and anyway, it's Clinton's fault. Considering that the camera fiasco with Colin Powell on Meet the Press last Sunday is linked (the disruptive question was about one of Chalabi's spooks named "Curveball") this one is a flyball at this point. We are really slipping way down the rabbit hole. When exactly did I take that red pill from the Matrix? Astrologers, give us the score, please! Don't worry Timothy about the personal data, this is how people really learn astrology, collecting as much data on as many people as possible and then following the effects of the transits. You share away. Dommael, it has been being reported all morning the possibility that the Chalabi raid was a staged set up so he can gain credibility. The Iraqi's have been accusing him of stealing, I thought it was noteworthy that he wasn't arrested and it was they people around him that were accused. That just borders on not passing the smell test. Posted by: Sally on May 20, 2004 08:42 PMTeresa: I sometimes feel that I bring a lot of "fear" to the discussion here and try very hard not to project my own personal fears when I bring forth items of discussion (I have mentioned martial law at least 3-4 times in the last 3 months/possibility of terrorist attacks). I am one who feels better when I talk about things that bother me, otherwise the feelings/fear gets repressed and ends up doing much more havoc on me physically, mentally, and spiritually. The discussion, whether negative or positive, are a means for me to get things elevated in the hope of diffusing some of the negativity by looking at all the possibilities. How do we know when we are in denial about our fear (by keeping quiet/applying positive energy) and having a healthy discussion in the hope of transforming our fear? Fear/my fear must be acknowledged before it can be healed. I guess my talking about fearful things is my way of acknowledging it in myself. In addition, showing both polarities of our personality reveals our authentic and transparent natures. Qualities required for any healthy discussion. I sincerely hope that I have not offened you or anyone else on this wonderful forum, but I am most likely to bring up other uncomfortable issues in the future as I don't know how at this point in my life to be any other way. You are correct in your observation, at least where it regards me because I have a lot of fear. Posted by: Beverly on May 20, 2004 08:56 PMExcellent analysis as usual Sally. I agree. After this administration's behavior toward the rest of the world, there is no recovery I'm intrigued with the 1946 date. What was the dimson grandpere doing at that time, after he escaped going to jail - was that the beginning of his run for Congress? And not only is the US Uranus at 8 Gemini conjunct the eclipses but so too are the atomic The 2003 Eclipses still "giving" as you say, were: May 7 16 Taurus Mercury Occultation 2004 Apr 19 29 Aries Solar Sally, if Chalabi's raid was staged to give him credibility among the Iraqi's ~ how likely is it that he's going to be embraced by his people after being in bed with the Neocons all this time? Could the Bu$h handlers be that stupid? Wait, don't answer that. Is this another Nick Berg situation, with sufficient evidence to support multiple contradictory points of view? Somebody is looking at some very interesting files on Chalabi's computer right now. I would think that the information in those files is going to tip the balance of power toward one of the factors in this power struggle. My head hurts. Posted by: Dommael on May 20, 2004 09:34 PMDommael, just one more little piece of the puzzle. There's going to be a thorough investigation with
By ESTES THOMPSON RALEIGH, N.C. - Army paratroopers accused of beating, taunting and humiliating journalists detained in Iraq have been given a refresher course on proper handling of detainees, even though an investigation cleared them of abuse, a spokesman said Thursday. Reuters said three Iraqis working for the news agency were physically abused and forced to put shoes in their mouths during their Jan. 2-5 detention at a military camp near Fallujah. The agency decided to make the incident public when the U.S. military said there was no evidence of abuse, and after news broke about the mistreatment of Iraqi detainees at Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad. Division spokesman Maj. Jimmie Cummings said 82nd Airborne Division commanders "reinforced to the soldiers the proper handling of prisoners." "Our investigation found no abuse of any kind," Cummings said Thursday. "This is a closed case." The Fort Bragg-based paratroopers have returned to their North Carolina post. Dommael: Remember the jessica lynch story that turned out to be hogwash and totally staged by the pentagon etc. so we really can't know what is truth/fiction in bushworld, as maureen dowd so magnificiently put it in her article, remember in bushworld you are in 1984 george orwell land, so nothing is as it seems, lies are truth, truth lies, etc. timothy, glad to hear your friend made it through okay, but please do remember aspects can play out in any number of ways, and there is no one right or wrong answer, i can remember doing a chart for the friend of a friend, and the aspects looked horrenduous, but nothing physically dramatic happened, ie death or injury, but she did undergo some dramatic inner changes, ie she did decide not to get married at that time, etc. so the transits can manifest in many ways, and we can only do our best in trying to interpret them Posted by: Isabelle Ghaneh on May 20, 2004 09:48 PMPallas18: The time you spent on the Lerner material must have been great. THANK-YOU for your keen insights! I will undoubtedly return to them for frequent reference. Vesta was operating pretty good in 2003 in Bush's chart in light of the trip to Africa (last summer) and England (last fall) Remember all the precious trees that had to be removed in Africa in order to secure him properly. What a shame!! In England his 700 security guards--700 hundred!!were accused by Queen Elizabeth of destroying & trampling, exotic, endangered, and one of a kind plants species. Many of them irreplacable. How on earth could anyone, President or not, actually like himself, let alone love himself when that much security is required to make him safe.?? That to me is an awfully loud affirmation of the disdain that most people have for him and it must bombard his psyche 24/7 and on some level he knows it even if it is not conscious. Posted by: Beverly on May 20, 2004 10:33 PMI liked your personal story, Timothy. Posted by: Peg on May 20, 2004 10:46 PMDommael, please, please, please let me answer the question of whether they are idiots. Here it comes, wait for it. YES, YES, YES I do indeed think they are part of that group who are too stupid to see the light of day. Ahhhhh. That feels better. As far as Chalabi, the Iraqi's didn't want him from the beginning. They felt he was crooked and never trusted him. But noooo, Rummy liked him, wanted him there, who cares what the Iraqi's want in governing their own country, so Chalabi is installed to the tune of they say $350,000 a month, but to keep his compound it's over $400,000 a month. Did you ever notice how expensive it is to maintain crooks and liars. This latest stunt of arresting everyone but Chalabi just smacks of a jr. high mentality trick. Unless they expel Chalabi out of there I don't believe Rummy has given up on him. Congress however has been asking some pointed questions about him and suddenly he is under investigation by his friend Rummy. That to me is a hmmmmmm. Posted by: Sally on May 20, 2004 10:51 PMROFLOL!!! By the way Dommael, does anyone remember the last person the US supported to become President of Iraq? And he was supported by a Bush too. Gee, now what was his name? You know the guy, the one Rummy was warmly shaking hands with over 20 years ago. Posted by: Sally on May 20, 2004 11:02 PMTo All: Here is some more negative news that has a very positive appeal. This is most unscientific but I can't resist telling all of you this. Last summer when I started looking around for Bush astrology on Google, I didn't realize that Google totaled the number of articles for the key words you typed in. I was too busy looking at the material that I was getting. Accidently I discovered when I looked for Anti-Bush websites (cartoons at that time) that 8,000 articles, phrases came up. This was June 2003. I thought it seemed to be a lot considering how popular he was but had nothing to compare it with in my mind. I didn't think much about it until I told my sister and she asked me "How may Anti-Clinton sites came up. I told her I didn't know because I didn't check that. No reason to. I never gave it another thought until Jan.,2004. I got curious and typed that phrase in again and 15,100 sites came up within the short time span of 6 months. It nearly doubled!! I got even more curious and checked the first week of March: 15,300, 2nd wk. March: 15,500, 3rd week of March: 15,800. Last checked yesterday at the fantastic total of 28,300. This is amazing! Have any of you noticed this or is it unique to me? I think this is very good news even if it didn't come from a newspaper, magazine or T.V. Is it telling us something? Posted by: Beverly on May 20, 2004 11:04 PMIt seems like a slow process but more and more people are waking up to what has been going on. Beverly, it wasn't you that sounded so negative (at least not to me). What freaked me out was the matter-of-fact discussion in the Lerner article about past presidential assassinations. Cheney as president is the stuff of which horror movies are made. I don't think I 've ever said thanks to everyone for this board. It's the only one I've ever been on where I feel I can express an opinion. Posted by: Teresa on May 20, 2004 11:26 PM"Detroit Zoo to Release Elephants on Ethical Grounds" In the midst of all this madness, here is a really important signpost of things to come as we move towards the Golden Age... http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20040520/us_nm/environment... Posted by: Sharon Katz on May 20, 2004 11:27 PMBeverly, I perceive that there has been a definite shift in the media. I think the mainstream media finally reached a point where they had to acknowledge the news on the Internet or else lose all the credibility they ever had. It now seems, really seems, that the Internet is leading the mainstream media. I was kind of awed when I got my copy of Newsweek in the mail this week, because thanks to the Internet I'd already read two featured articles *before* the magazine was even printed!!! I've long thought that the Bu$h reign will be remembered as the Online Golden Age of Satire. Thanks to his lockdown on the mainstream media, he's fostered an online movement that blends fact with humor, satire, and anger and is growing all the time. That jump in the Google stats is unbelievable and shows how the momentum is building. Let's home it continues to do so with the end result of the Bu$h cabal in leg irons and saner heads working cooperatively with the rest of the world for stability in the Middle East. Sharon K, that link seems to have expired. Here's the text: DETROIT (Reuters) - The Detroit Zoo will become the first major zoo to stop exhibiting elephants on ethical grounds because they can develop arthritis and stress-related ailments in captivity, officials said on Thursday. The Detroit Zoo has one of the largest facilities in the country, but its Asian elephants Winky and Wanda still have recurring foot problems due to the cold weather, Director Ron Kagen told Reuters. In the wild, elephants roam vast areas, live in large families, and exhibit some of the same social traits as humans such as forming friendships and mourning for their dead. "Elephants seem to be intelligent and even social in ways that are similar to humans," Kagen said. "Elephants can suffer from similar things to what we suffer from when we're in difficult environments." Confined to zoos and circuses, elephants develop physical problems and neurotic behaviors such as rocking back and forth and aggressive behavior, he said. "If we don't feel like we can (keep elephants), then the question is, who can and how?," he said. "For us, there really is a big question about whether elephants should be in captivity at all." Kagen likens the change to the decision to stop performances by elephants and chimpanzees years ago at the zoo because of the stress it placed on the animals. The zoo expects to send Winky and Wanda to an animal sanctuary this summer where they can roam with other elephants. "I think it is an enormously important precedent," Wayne Pacelle, chief executive officer of the Humane Society of the United States, told Reuters. "It should trigger the examination of the treatment of elephants in other zoos and in circuses throughout the country." Other zoos have also given away their elephants because they had health problems due to inadequate faculties, Pacelle said. But the Detroit Zoo is the first with sizable grounds and adequate care to end its elephant exhibit on ethical grounds, he said. this is an interesting article on Chalabi and sheds some light on today's actions http://www.counterpunch.com/chalabi05202004.html Posted by: Sally on May 20, 2004 11:50 PMTo Dommael and All: I have this other tidbit I want to share as it's important too. Have been meaning to do it earlier but can't find the original source now as something else has taken it's place. I stumbled upon a website about short-wave radio. It was purely an accident. It came up with a google I did while looking for something else. I became interested because the article said I could get a short-wave radio very cheap, and I was hoping to get all the liberal world-wide stations that I wanted, (hoping for Ed Schultz, Mike Malloy) and reception would be good. As I kept reading, they said that Short-wave radio sales HAD FLOWN UP DRASTICALLY -- SOMETHING LIKE 20% as people were tuning out their normal,regular channels of information, seeking more truth. I haven't bought the radio yet as I need to get more info on atenna's, etc. Maybe you don't need one. Does anyone now? But I wanted to mention this because it is another source of vital information that wouldn't be reported in the main stream media. I would have never known this had I not stumbled across it. Sales of such do not increase unless there is a very good reason for it. Isn't that amazing and very positive for those of us hoping for change. Posted by: Beverly on May 21, 2004 12:17 AMDommael and All: Forgot to mention that Major networks are in a terrible slump, with poor ratings, decrease in ad dollars, etc. ......Worse than it's ever been.... Posted by: Beverly on May 21, 2004 12:23 AMDommael and All: I want to ask you a question in reference to your comment about getting your news first from the internet, before print/T.V. Earlier in the day I was at rummormill.com/news where there is a new article about "Bush/Kerry Scandal = Military Coup". I read it and don't believe it. When the photos of prisoner abuse came out I saw them on the internet, and thought they were Made Up. A prank. They were fake. Two days latter they turn out to be true. Now I am discounting this article about Bush/Kerry collusion as somebody's conspiracy theory. Do you ever do that? Apparently, some major news network has the goods on Bush/Kerry, about ready to let it all go out. Will you go look at it and tell me what you think? Make sure you hit the RMN and go down about 1/4 page. It is rather strange. Posted by: Beverly on May 21, 2004 12:40 AMTeresa: I haven't read Lerner's articles since last winter and became alarmed with some of the contents too. The assasination stuff didn't bother me as much as the idea that Cheney is approaching the pinnacle of his career. I have read that elsewhere too. Yes, horror. I heard brief commentary on NPR about 2 months ago, where it was stated that Cheney's approval rating is at 20%. I didn't know that VP's were rated. Posted by: Beverly on May 21, 2004 12:49 AMBeverly, I've been on the blogs all day about Chalabi and best I can determine according to folks in the know [really, who is, considering we're trying to second guess the Pirates and their little pirates] Over at Talking Points Memo, Josh Marshall says several of his readers claim that the raid was actually an attempt to enhance Chalabi’s mojo among Iraqis by giving him some credibility as a foe of the Occupation. Josh isn't buying it. Prof. Juan Cole reminds us that Chalabi always has money in mind no matter which sucker he’s currently gaming. But, as always, the professor isn’t content to paddle around in the shallows of conventional wisdom: Rumors are swirling in Baghdad that Chalabi had been taking a percentage of some contracts or that he had been trying to transfer government assets to the Iraqi National Congress before the transfer of sovereignty on June 30. There are also rumors that his militia, which Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz had flown into Iraq last year on a Pentagon aircraft, has engaged in coercive or extortionate activities. The problem is that these sorts of rumors have been swirling in Baghdad for many months. So why did the US move now? Chalabi is charging that the crackdown on him is an attempt by the United Nations to squelch investigations into the bribes Saddam had paid UN officials under the oil for food program, and on which Chalabi had information. The Pentagon had quite outrageously turned over to the Iraqi National Congress the intelligence files of the old Saddam government, which Chalabi has threatened to use to blackmail officials of neighboring governments. Chalabi's charge is implausible and he is just trying to waft some smoke into the public's eyes. Lakhdar Brahimi, the special UN envoy, had made it clear over a month ago that he would not appoint Chalabi to the caretaker government. In response, Chalabi has become increasingly critical of the US. He complained that rehabilitating the Baathists after the siege of Fallujah failed was tantamount to putting Nazis in power. … Finally, if all this potential intrigue is just too … uh … Byzantine for an afternoon read, here’s a taste of what Fanatical Apathy thinks might have been discussed during the search of Chalabi’s house: SOLDIER: So, where is it? CHALABI: Where is what, my friend? SOLDIER: The $27 million we've given you over the past couple of years. CHALABI: I know of no such money. And it's already spent. SOLDIER: On what? CHALABI: Important intelligence operations, naturally. SOLDIER: Look, you've given us nothing of value, and we could really use that money right about now. So pony it up. CHALABI: Look - out the window, in the street - isn't that an open vat of VX gas? An Iraqii Shiite writes to Juan Cole: "Chalabi is setting himself up to be Martin Luther King to Muqtada's Malcolm X. I predict he will head to Najaf soon to mediate." So. Patriot? Crook? Coupster? Democrat? Opportunist? America's best friend in Iraq? He's out of the administration, in my opinion. The question for me is, now that he's gone, whom will the neocons back: Bush or Chalabi... some folks (in jest I hope) are putting their money on Chalabi... Posted by: Jo on May 21, 2004 12:56 AMP.S. Didn't Sally say a ways back in one of her articles, that "what used to be considered conspiracy is now mainstream"?........Thank you to everyone here for your comments, links, and sharing. Posted by: Beverly on May 21, 2004 01:01 AMThank you Sharon K. and Dommael for the elephant article. It gave me goose pimples reading it. Such a compassionate thing and way over due. Posted by: Beverly on May 21, 2004 01:12 AMDommael, article on Chalabi just a bit down from the top--in case you haven't already seen it. Beverly, I can't find the article about the Bu$h/Kerry Scandal = Military Coup, but it sounds similar to something I read about earlier at smirking chimp. I'll certainly look it over and give my opinion, for what it's worth, but there are other posters here that are far, far better informed than I am. The reason I'm skeptical is because for a scandal to reach all the way from Bu$h to Kerry it would have to take out the heads of every player in between and that would be way beyond a scandal. But perhaps that's the point. I didn't think when I woke up this morning Chalabi would have a gun to his head and his computer confiscated either... Thanks, Shylurker! PALLAS: your article above was too exhaustive for me to comprehend completely as I have an extremely dizzy/dehydrated sinus head today. Now what is Vesta the security ast. doing 'these days' with Bush, and in the next few months? Can you explain this to me in easier terms for my spinning head to read today? Thanks. Chalabi is total opportunist and I am sure the admin has disgust towards him. He only told them what they wanted to hear, about the US as liberators, and the inevitable attack on us by WMDs. And now they resent him, for being like them, full of shit. What's the Kerry/Bush scandal? Do tell. Posted by: Roxanne on May 21, 2004 02:01 AMI have a Kerry/ Bush scandal for ya, Roxanne, don't know if it's the same? :A spokesperson for the Bush Family has apparently been pleading with a major worldwide news organization, not to proceed with a story they have. The explosive details may turn out to be the biggest scandal in the new millennium. The news group has eyewitnesses, kept in security and so far concealed, already interviewed on videotape, who confirm that there was a joint pact and plot, in which George W. Bush and John F. Among the matters contained in the so far embargoed story, are the following: [1] As supervised by Daddy Bush, George W. Bush was instructed to follow orders and "to stay out of it" that is, to defer action as Commander-in-Chief, permitting a military stand-down and other contradictions to what a President/Commander-in-Chief should immediately do upon being informed of [2] The scheme, like the pre-knowledge of the December 7, 1941 attack on Pearl Harbor, was to disregard the resultant bloodshed of Americans, since it was for a profound purpose. As to Pearl As to the home-grown events of September 11, 2001, among the purposes, while disregarding the [3] As supervised by Daddy Bush, once head of America's secret political police, George W. Bush and John F. Kerry were to assist in creating what in espionage parlance is called "a legend", that is [4] As confirmed by the so far embargoed news group story, a renegade member of Israeli intelligence, The Mossad, was to assist the plan. Nicholas Berg was groomed as a "penetration Berg befriended various Saudi and other Arabs being trained for very low level, very routine airplane flying, under the auspices of U.S. Military facilities in Florida, Oklahoma, and California, among other places. [5] A sort of "spark-plug" for this work was Mohammed Atta, purportedly a "ring-leader" befriended by Nicholas Berg. Atta was financed in part by large sums funneled by Daddy Bush and others via [6] On behalf of Daddy Bush, George W. Bush, and John F. Kerry, penetration agent Berg purchased an airplane ticket in the name of Atta, by way of setting up Atta and other Arabs for the "legend", [7] The ticket was purchased through Oklahoma with the ostensible assistance of a former Chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, former U.S. Senator David L. Boren. Boren was a graduate of Yale University and reportedly like Daddy Bush, George W. Bush, and John F. Kerry, is a member of the super-secret Skull & Bones Society. Boren was Oklahoma Governor 1975-79, Boren was forced out of the U.S. Senate as a result of an attempted hush-up of a homosexual scandal, wherein pictures were made available to the monopoly press showing him in homosexual Boren is a close associate of George J. Tenet (like other Directors of Central Intelligence, he does not use his real name). Prior to 9-11, Tenet's CIA helped obstruct FBI agents in Minneapolis Boren's close associate has been CIA officer David Edger who had been in charge of CIA surveillance over the Hamburg, Germany Al Qaeda cell which included Atta. The FBI and American CIA obstructed the German authorities in the Hamburg matter by arranging key American witnesses not to be Boren has been a Director of ConocoPhillips, overlapping the interests of the Bush Crime Family, through Pennzoil-Texaco and the worldwide war-mongers and profiteers, the Carlyle Group. Boren has also been a Director of AMR Corporation, parent firm of American Airlines, Inc. Boren has been in a position to reportedly conceal and withhold data as to flights on 9-11 as to American Air [8] George W. Bush, Daddy Bush, and John F. Kerry are gravely concerned that the news group, so far sitting on this story, has reputed proof that for Bush-Kerry and the apparent treasonous plot, that Nicholas Berg, for their plan and scheme, arranged to plant, in the middle of the street near the attacked twin towers of the World Trade Center, the alleged passport of Mohammed Atta, somehow in pristine and undamaged condition. [9] There is some doubt as to whether Nicholas Berg is dead as represented by a purported video beamed up from London. Berg's role in this, and data he turned over to The Mossad, has enabled them to apparently continue blackmailing large sums out of the Bush White House, to be used for Israel's military defense. From a candid position, Israel finds themselves in a perpetual struggle with [10] Unanswered questions: ===Is the person known as Nicholas Berg really dead? If so, was he murdered, not by Arabs, but by a special assassins' team arranged by Daddy Bush to attempt to cover up the foregoing? ===Will the news group succumb to the pleading of the Bushies, that these matters, if widely and publicly revealed, would bring down the American Central Government and may set off a patriotic ===Other than a devastating profound scandal, WHAT will rescue the Bill of Rights and the U.S. Constitution from its current condition as having been cancelled because of false tales that "the ===Under the circumstances, can reasonably informed people actually believe a Presidential Election is possible, in the traditional way, in the year 2004? Both expected Presidential candidates have committed treason, which is apparent to anyone knowing the details of the story a major news group I've been thinking about getting a short-wave Synchronicity, Corleonis. Yep, that's the Bu$h/Kerry scandal I read about this morning. Anyone, want to venture an opinion on this one? CBS New (Leslie Stahl) said that she got from someone in the Pentagon that Chalibi gave some Dommael, I know you've moved on to Chalabi, but here's a nice collection of DU stuff in/when you get back to it. Peg, You didn't provide a link to your post upthread. Where in the world did you get that stuff... it reads like a 'textual' collage [if there is such a thing] of all the 'conspiracy' theories one could find on the internet... all woven together! I don't like using the word 'conspiracy' usually. But some people don't accept the official story for 9/11 and your post reads as though someone has garnered a part of each of the 3 top theories and mixed them it with parts of theories on Nick Berg and etc. In other words, I don't believe it has any factual basis. Dommael, you read it also? It's a joke, right?! Namaste Posted by: Jo on May 21, 2004 03:13 AMSorry Peg, but that story is just too way out there for me to buy. Bush/Kerry collusion originating from college days? No way. Implausible considering the divergent paths they've taken since then. That piece seems to me to be the work of someone's overactive imagination. Posted by: Jeanie on May 21, 2004 03:46 AMEloquent urgent plea, and searing indictment of Smirky & Co. This is very chilling: McCain made that "joke" in response to a question about what it would take to make them "come around" on the budget. We have mentioned airplane "accidents" (which seems to always dispatch Dems to the hereafter) from time to time on this board, but this is a first (or so I think) that a politician did. And this one is a Repug. Mmmmmmmm. Not good feeling. Posted by: shylurker on May 21, 2004 04:22 AMPeg, It's conspiracy b*llsh*t like that that helps gives astrologers and those like-minded bad names. Unless you have factual proof and a news link, please save us these conspiracy theory rantings. Although one can just s-c-r-o-l-l down and ignore it, it still is a waste of time. Theories like that won't save this country from Bush&Co. Let's stay in the here and now, people! Posted by: on May 21, 2004 04:22 AMDon't know for sure, but I think the conspiracy stuff that was posted is from Sherman Skolnick. He's interesting, but . . . Posted by: shylurker on May 21, 2004 04:30 AMthis business about a news group, kerry conspiracies, etc.etc. is based on 1/2 truths and loose associations. please, we have some serious issues coming down the road like georgie boy's saturn return and our total disaster in iraq. i'd like to advance a modest proposal: our leaders are MORONS; greedy, nasty, craven, you name it, BUT MORNONS NONTHELESS. they are not nearly smart enought to concoct such a conspiracy. i do believe that conspiracies play a vital role in state based and small group criminal activity. the kennedy murder (jfk) was clearly a conspiracy. but this is just too rediculous and distracts from the great goal in 2004 - ABB (anybody but bush). Posted by: mike on May 21, 2004 04:35 AMI don't know who posted the unsigned post above, but it was not very nice. You did not need to express yourself in such a condescending manner. Peg, I'm sure the information sounded plausible when you first read it, or you wouldn't have brought it here. This administration has lied about so many things and the world seems so turned upside down that we feel as if we have fallen into a rabbit hole some days, a black hole the next. Please pay no attention to that post. Namaste Posted by: Jo on May 21, 2004 04:38 AMPeg, that just blew my mind! What am I suppose to hope? I can hope it's not true, but if it is, let's go Ralph. Posted by: Roxanne on May 21, 2004 05:30 AMAbout 78% of respondents are answering "Yes" to CNN's inquiry about whether the US should turn over control to the Iraqis on June 30th. (I mean, it is their own country--duh!) I wonder how many would vote "Yes" if the question were should the US turn over Bush to the Iraqis on June 30th. Another Soul & Heart breaker. * Afghan Massacre: Eyewitnesses Testify that US Troops Were Complicit in the Massacre of up to 3,000 Taliban Prisoners During the Afghan War Thur, 5/20/04 http://www.democracynow.org/print.pl?sid=04/05/20/147230 I've said it before & I'll say it again: the infamous bin Laden & the infamous Hussein & the infamous bushie et al are all buddie-boyz within the same "plutocratic & oligarchic class," who have one "enemy" & one enemy only... ALL OF US. Hussein/bin Laden are hiding, no doubt, but not hiding from bushie. These guys all decided to take over the Middle East together... they decided to sell out the Peoples of the Mid East AND the US awa various & sundry other countries/govts, such as the UK etc. Posted by: JoannaOregon on May 21, 2004 06:18 AMthe Bush/Kerry plot makes no sense at all - just The only accurate thing would be that Bush either knew or was told to ignore all warnings of pending attack on the US, so that people would be On Chalabi - this morning the news was reporting This afternoon it was that he was involved in kidnapping, extortion and blackmail. And this evening, the news is that he had been privy to classified information which he passed onto Iran regularly....like a double agent. (Does that make the CIA and FBI lok stupid again?) Somewhere, besides revenge which the dimson team is well known for, in the three reports lies kernels of truth. But who can figure which or is it all? Do these morons in the capital not realize they live in a fish bowl, that we are all watching, and that many of us are not stupid? ? ? Posted by: Pallas18 on May 21, 2004 06:38 AMI dunno, Joanna. I think you give far too much credit to those boyz and their goings-on. While colluding goes on amongst them, they shift their allegiances and alliances, they get mad at each other, they reshuffle their relationships, and always they are seeking the best deal in terms of owning the earth's resources (and who the heck decided that certain people--a very few--own those resources?), and blah-blah-blah. They are conscienceless. They are playing their terrible little games, always seeking wealth and influence, at the expense of the rest of us. Can you imagine being among them? I don't discount Peg's posting. Not at all. I believe it's one's responsbility to consider all possibilities. That leads to creative thinking, inspiration & revelation... those "AhHa's"...something dreadfully needed in these times. If something seems too outlandish, I put it on the mental shelve to perhaps examine later... I don't throw it out. My mind has been trained since birth essentially by those who wish me no free, creative Life. Don't know about you, but I've spent a great deal of that life UNLEARNING patterns, modes, religions, philosophies, theories, stories, notions, etc. & it pisses me off! Immense time wasted on REAL nonsense imo. I also stay mostly balanced by realizing Universal Intelligence is WITHIN me! Then I'm not blown about by extreme silliness... subject to the realm of fear. Fear. Bah! Humbug! Posted by: JoannaOregon on May 21, 2004 06:54 AMWe don't get "it"....do we???? I came across this article this morning: House Votes to Destroy Iraqi Prison .. The gist of it is the House of Representatives proposes to "demolish" Abu Ghraib prison ($422 million set aside) and BUILD a modern "detention" facility in its place. The article states the House voted 308 to 114 to include the provision in the defense bill. What a wonderful legacy -- not to mention an ARROGANT one -- to bequeath to the Peoples of Iraq. Why not get busy restoring Electricity, ensuring water flows so the people of Iraq can begin to rebuild and repair what we can the damage which has been caused. That would seem to have more urgency than bestowing a "new detention center." The other side of this novel idea bears thought too...Since when does the Government of the United States take decisions concerning internal security issues of other countries? Will we be building prisons in other countries next?????? Perhaps it is my way of thinking. I would be happy to have others weigh in on this..... Truewater2
There was some talk about Gordon Brown at the beginning of this thread. I just found this bit that Marjorie Orr wrote: www.star4cast.com Brown: Current Influences After a review of the aspects for today it is possible that the raid on the Chalabi enclave was, at least in part, perpetuated by the need to remove certain information and data that was in his records as they pertain to his arrangements with both the US government and other nations....and to protect the interests of people in the US Department of Defense/Pentagon. Chalabi has always been a dealer in "information" and this raid was, at this time, as much to protect the communications between Chalabi and DOD/Military/Iran to save further embarrassement as it was a matter of security. The chart for today is pleasant enough but has the long lasting and highly unpredictable Pluto/Venus opposition that will provide many revealations in its wake.....and is very long lasting....and doesn't end until August when it returns to its original retrograde position. The sun today was at 29 Taurus, not a particularly pleasant spot. How quickly Mr. Chalabi has moved from "friend" to "danger" to the US. He has plenty of information to embarrass the US...and has on more than one occasion....and this Administration cannot take too much more.....therefore an attempt to protect itself and remove as much factual information as possible......it was the computers that were the first things out, I believe. As these things happen it is very important to look at the astrological conditions and assess from that point of view. The power and influence is all there and is fairly easy to read. The secrets are going to be coming out day by day and even tonight on the network news NBC has a story coming about a special detention building operated by Delta Force/Rangers whose brutality may make the prision abuses revealed until now look pale in comparison. Posted by: Ann on May 21, 2004 08:29 AMWhy would they expose Nick Berg, if he was the key that connected the dots? Surely they would know that people would be investigating his life, after such a public death. These people are alot of things, but they are not stupid, it takes alot of cold intelligence to control the resources of our planet, and at the same time keeping the masses complacent and ignorent. If we fail in ending this global abuse, control and murder. There is one entity that will defeat them and reflect our reality back to us, that is the planet itself. As always it will be the poor who will suffer the most when we run out of water, oil, trees and everything else we take and are unable to replace. If it looks like all morality is been thrown out the window and the need for pretense and coverups are vanishing, things must be more dire than we can think. But, I think, in all of our hearts, we love this Earth, and would give up everything, even our civilization, to preserve and honour it's life. No use trying to reach nirvana when we are all desperately needed here. Posted by: Azara on May 21, 2004 08:35 AMWell, if things get catastrophic, we'll all have to make a pact to rendezvous back here in our next life with the knowledge to fix it. A thought just occurred to me about the rapture fundies - how do they address the fact that 'Jaysus' is supposed to come back and rule the people on earth in peace AFTER they've all been vaporized? Gosh, maybe we can be rid of them after all! Posted by: Jeanie on May 21, 2004 08:54 AMhistory news network - bush voted worst president by most historians (no surprise there!) Jeanie: thank you for that bit about gordon brown, did ms. orr include a birth time for him? i ask because the particulars given would say he has an aries rising? thanks for the history link also, not surprising but good to know! also see article on pelosi questioning competance of bush, (how could you not)? http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/05/20/pelosi.bush/index.html Posted by: Isabelle Ghaneh on May 21, 2004 12:45 PMthe story above was from Sherman Skolnick via Smirking Chimp. Dommael referred to it, Roxanne asked for it, I provided it. I'm pretty much in agreement with Joanna. Posted by: Peg on May 21, 2004 01:14 PMThere's a piece in Guardian today written by Nick Berg's father, Michael Berg. It's a tremendously moving piece, and I felt a portion should be posted. You can view the entire article at the link: "So what were we to do when we in America were attacked on September 11, that infamous day? I say we should have done then what we never did before: stop speaking to the people we labelled our enemies and start listening to them. Stop giving preconditions to our peaceful coexistence on this small planet, and start honouring and respecting every human's need to live free and autonomously, to truly respect the sovereignty of every state. To stop making up rules by which others must live and then separate rules for ourselves. George Bush's ineffective leadership is a weapon of mass destruction, and it has allowed a chain reaction of events that led to the unlawful detention of my son which immersed him in a world of escalated violence. Were it not for Nick's detention, I would have had him in my arms again. That detention held him in Iraq not only until the atrocities that led to the siege of Fallujah, but also the revelation of the atrocities committed in the jails in Iraq, in retaliation for which my son's wonderful life was put to an end. My son's work still goes on. Where there was one peacemaker before, I now see and have heard from thousands of peacemakers. Nick was a man who acted on his beliefs. We, the people of this world, now need to act on our beliefs. We need to let the evildoers on both sides of the Atlantic know that we are fed up with war. We are fed up with the killing and bombing and maiming of innocent people. We are fed up with the lies. Yes, we are fed up with the suicide bombers, and with the failure of the Israelis and Palestinians to find a way to stop killing each other. We are fed up with negotiations and peace conferences that are entered into on both sides with preset conditions that preclude the outcome of peace. We want world peace now. Many have offered to pray for Nick and my family. I appreciate their thoughts, but I ask them to include in their prayers a prayer for peace. And I ask them to do more than pray. I ask them to demand peace now." ------------------------------ I find it ironic that those families who suffer loss are the most cognizant of what is really going on in the world and how to resolve conflict. Here is a man whose son died in a most horrific manner, whether it was actually on the video or earlier at the hands of violence. And a day or two ago, some of the families of the victims of 9/11 were present at the Hearing when Mayor G. testified and they were waving placards and shouting "Lies", "Lies"... shortly after the events of that day more than two years ago, they were asking for understanding of the grievances the perpetrators have, for an end to violence. Yet those who have lost no loved ones are most vocal with their support of more killing. It is George Bush and the Neocons' policy, but it is the American people who supported this policy initially who allowed it to happen. And in a spiritual or holistic perspective, it is all of us in this collective we call America who allowed it to happen. We cannot change what is happening in Iraq and Gaza until we change here in America. We are still sitting and seething. In the words of Michael Berg we must demand peace. Now. Everyday, in whatever form we can. Namaste Posted by: Jo on May 21, 2004 01:39 PMPeg, Sometimes I think this is done deliberately, to discredit information that is contrary to the 'official' story. Then they label everyone who raises a question a 'tin-foil hat' conspirator. A neat trick, don't you think? I'm reminded of what my Granny told me when I was very young - 'don't believe anything you hear and only one-half of what you see' --- that advise stuck in my gut, because I check sources and check sources and then doubt. Some say I am too skeptical, but in this day I don't think we can be too skeptical. Did you ever see so much 'compressed' in such a short time? The news just comes and comes... feels as though we are whirling, faster and faster. Do you remember Donald Rumsfeld's frustration at the hearing over a week ago (? days are running together for me) when he was trying to answer a question about when he first learned about the 'abuses' at Abu Ghraib... and he commented he had read some reports about it, but the full impact didn't hit him until he saw the pictures, and then he started flailing about, saying who would have thought, all those digital cameras, all those camcorders, the pictures are everywhere, we just can't ... I think he wanted to say "control" --- and this is a huge piece in my thinking... the fact that these think tank neocons never factored into their calculations that their deeds would be recorded at the speed of light, on the internet and with cameras... they were busy embedding reporters, but hey, we don't need network news or cable anymore... we can find the truth without their multiple filters... and that is bringing them down, exposing them. Namaste Posted by: Jo on May 21, 2004 01:59 PMLike I said before, dinosaurs are stuck as we spin faster towards our evolutionary ascension. Why would this backroads mentality take into account modern technology in the hands of brainwashed soldiers and mercenaries. Sailing Infinite expanse, sleep ocean teeming with life, / Turbulent, virile, every-moving spread, / Seamlessly laid to the brilliant sky, / I float on ykou in my fashioned womb, / Sustained by your green-black depths. Those on land never understand maritime life. / Those of the Sea are intimate with your moods. / They navigate but are ultimately helpless. / Destinations become useless, drifting the sole reality: / A sailor's fears dissolve into acceptance. Tao is sometimes compared to the Ocean. Its depth is immeasurable, its power rules all who enter it. We seek to sail it with our knowledge of knots, direction, mathematics, and charts, yet our understanding is incomparable to its vastness. The young have great ambitions about exploring both above and below the surface, while the wise have given in: They know that there is no other alternative than to accept the Ocean and float upon it. One who accepts is sustained. Those who go beyond its terms meet death. Thus the wise say that they float here and there without care; they trust in the overwhelming power of Tao. Posted by: JoannaOregon on May 21, 2004 02:30 PM
If you have not checked out Mad Cow Morning News, I think you would like it. It has much about the "hijackers" as intelligence agents, if you read betweeen the lines. Also Bohemian Grove stuff. It seems to be the grown up Skull and Bones. Much of the info is gone from the web, but you can still find some. Posted by: Jean on May 21, 2004 03:12 PMAgain my name was eaten by the computer grimlins. To All Here: I didn't mean to create such a storm by asking Dommael his opinion on the validity of the article I referenced yesterday about Bush/Kerry/Military Coup. No criticism should be directed at Peg as I am the one who brought the subject up due to my own skepticism. I do believe however, that some of the information is valid. DOMMAEL: The reason I directed my question to you was because of your comments about getting your news from the internet before other main stream sources. I thought you could help me with my concerns as so much of what I read I don't believe. Do you understand what I am saying. I AM SORRY FOR ANY CONFUSION I MAY HAVE CAUSED. And, SALLY, if you did not make the comment that I attributed to you, please forgive me. Posted by: Beverly on May 21, 2004 04:04 PMHere is another speculative opinion to consider:"Cheney Won't Run" http://www.hillnews.com/eisele/051004.aspx Posted by: Beverly on May 21, 2004 04:24 PMfriends, I'm not bothered about negative critism directed at that post, but thanks for your back-up :) I personally think it's true. I've felt funny "stuff" about Kerry/ this election/ the war all along, and I have posted on here MANY times that we are seeing the destruction of ALL systems. If somebody wants to think or feel otherwise, that's okay by me. Anyway, Risa D'Angeles has a GREAT!! post up this week, for anyone interested: http://web.nightlightnews.com/OverviewfortheMonth/WeeklyHoroscopes/index.html Posted by: Peg on May 21, 2004 05:27 PMLet's hear it for our irrepressible Peg: Cheers! Howdy friends, I had to leave my computer right after the Kerry/Bu$h=martial law post so I missed out on the discussions, but I'll throw in a few words about it. I'm actually glad that the Kerry/Bu$h scandal = military coup scenario was posted. Not because I give it any credence... I'm reading a great book for the third time called the Illuminatus! Trilogy by Robert Shea and Robert Anton Wilson. It's the Classic Mother of All Conspiracy Theory books ~ written as a tongue-in-cheek fictional story involving the Illuminati, Leviathan, JFK... you name it and it's in there. The reason it's really a work of genius is because it's a blend of fact and fiction ~ the most ingenious and effective kind of Conspiracy Theories. Which is what I think we have in the Kerry/Bu$h scandal = military coup scenario. I'm not going to scroll up and re-read the thing, but I have to give it credit as being the Greatest Conspiracy Theory I've read on the Net. The High Water Mark. Sweeping in it's Vision, Overwhelming in it's Implications. In fact, that's why I can't give it too much credibility. It's *too* good. I don't think the numbnuts in the government are smart enough to do all of that planning. If some of them were, I'm sure there's no way that so many people could pull it off (remember, three can keep a secret if two are dead.) Kerry and Bu$h would have had to conspire to do this in 1974 and I don't think that's plausible. Now, having said that, there are some parts of the theory that bear up to scrutiny. Clearly, the events around 9-11 have more to the eye than we're being told. Nick Berg's beheading also has something fishy to it. We've been talking about martial law and regime changes here, so that's a fear-inducing possibility that's in the back of everyone's mind. Just going from memory, a lot of the theory seemed to involve Kerry and Bu$h rolling around naked in mud. It is *possible* that the motivation behind this story is to further promote the notion that there is no difference between Bu$h and Kerry. Would Rove write this and post it? How paranoid can I be? This helps Bu$h, hurts Kerry. Doesn't really alter anyone's perception of Bu$h who's likely to read it (haha!) You always have to look at the underlying motivation and who benefits from everything you read. There's just too many lies and distortions to accept things at face value. But it is *equally* possible that this is the work of a conspiracy theory nut trying to create art. Is it art? I think so. Is it reality? I think not. Finally, one other thing I want to share is that I have researched some of the Skull & Bones stuff that's out there ~ and it's hard to know how much weight to put behind the rumors. One thing I do believe personally, though, is that initiates were probably made to pose sexually for incriminating photos to be used as blackmail if necessary. That sounds, (obviously more and more these days,) like just the sort of initiation a bunch of sick, rich, fratboys would collectively come up with. So, just keep in mind that, yes, it IS possible that there's a very weird, very real picture of our elected officials out there. How much weight you want to place on that is up to you. Different elements of this story *could* be true ~ some are *likely* to be true ~ and some are *probably* true. It's tying them all together into one narrative that stretches credibility to the breaking point. So I think it's good to pull these things out and expose them to the light of day. As far as the nasty post saying it didn't belong here... maybe if you have a preconceived notion about astrologers, and you see a far-out conspiracy theory on a site, it will reinforce your perception - but if that's the case, you were pretty much a lost cause to begin with. The Internet is a jungle, where half-truths, disinformation, and bias are constantly screaming for credibility. The beauty of this place is that only facts are strong enough to withstand the erosion. Maintain healthy skepticism, get your facts from multiple sources and listen to voices you trust. If we can't digest a good toothy conspiracy theory once in a while and spit out the bones when we're done with it, then we'll never be able to handle the truth when we finally learn it. And we won't know it when we see it. Just my $.03. FYI ~ this is *not* a valid reason to vote for Nader. Three cheers for Peg! Peg, thanks for the link to nightlightnews... the article is wonderful... and Joanna, the poem you cited, 'Sailing' ... is that your piece? It's beautiful. The whole piece is lovely, the way you tied the poem into comments on the Tao. Thank you for such a tranquil, calming piece... makes one long for the water. Strange that so many folks are thinking of compressions and swirling and whirling today... bhakti, I like your comment on evolutionary ascension... Bernard Weiner at CrisisPapers.org has a piece: Escaping the Maelstrom. "The political events of the past several weeks have been a kind of nightmare experience. It's like we're in a vortex of violence and cruelty, a maelstrom where our leaders' mendacity and bungling behavior drag us down in a terrible, dangerous swirl. And yet, these may be the final death rattles of a reckless policy and of a corrupt and incompetent administration." His article is very interesting, as he compares today's Bush Administration: "Read this editorial that I penned for the alternative journal Northwest Passage almost 34 years ago to the day (May 18, 1970). Change just a few words, and the same could be written right now: NIXON'S WAR AND BUSH'S WAR "Nixon is a good representative of a nation hoist on its own petard. On the one hand, he knows that we must get the hell out of Southeast Asia before we get so bogged down that the current $100 billion expenditure for the Vietnam War will look like peanuts, and the internal structure of the U.S. will become totally chaotic as its social institutions fester and explode in violent pus. On the other hand, however, Nixon is a captive of all the rabid 'anti-communist' rhetoric of the past 30 years which says that the U.S. must help fight these dirty reds whenever and wherever they rear their ugly heads. Not only is this policy foolishly simplistic, but it simply is impossible of fulfillment in this day and age. Yet so much of a psychological hold does it have on the American mentality that Nixon can slide us further into Cambodia, Laos...and God knows where else without an instant and total revolt on the part of the citizenry. >>"Perhaps the Nationalist-Communists will take over in Vietnam, and maybe even elsewhere in Asia, but that will be no major calamity; the United States will not disappear as a world power, neither will it be stormed by the 'Yellow Peril.' The only sane course is to get out, now, immediately, today -- before it's impossible to do so..." Here's the link, I hope you find it as interesting as I did: ---------------------- Morgana, Namaste
Sorry to be such a nag, but to ask the question again: What do you think would happen if a rumor persisted that the descendants of Geronimo had the skull of Prescott Bush? (I'm just tagging on to the S&B stuff. Again. With any luck, this'll be the last time I post this.) And, yes, Morgana, I join Jo (and many others, I'm sure) in hoping to hear from you and sending you all comforting and strengthening thoughts and wishes possible. Posted by: shylurker on May 21, 2004 06:29 PMIf the descendents of *Geronimo* had the skull of Prescott Bu$h? That's the first time I've heard that one. It is a very longstanding rumor that the descendents of *Prescott Bu$h* have the skull of Geronimo in a macabre trophy case at Yale. The second scenario is certainly possible (don't know about the first one!) personally, I think it'd be very timely for legal representatives of the Native Americans to put together a class-action lawsuit to get to the bottom of it. The rumor that Geronimo's descendents had a Bu$h trophy would last about thirty minutes before the truth was found out. America. Sheesh. For the record, that Skull & Bones stuff needs to come out. Bu$h AND Kerry need to put this matter to rest. It's ridiculous that it's even still a mystery with the most important election in the history of America just six months away. For me, there is one indisputable argument that totally destroys the credibility of Skull and Bones being an effective tentacle of diabolical planning, nefarious deeds and far~reaching conspiracy. George Bu$h is a member. ~D Posted by: Dommael on May 21, 2004 06:48 PMDommael, you made my point precisely. There is a sad tale of one of Geronimo's people trying to get to the truth of the matter and being shown a small skull (apparently that of a child) at S&B. He supposedly was asked to sign some papers and take the skull. He wouldn't take it, of course, and the matter is unresolved. If we weren't dealing in juvenalia here, somebody would decisively put this matter to rest. But here we have grown, middle-aged men hanging onto their oaths of secrecy made when they were youths, coded messages, and blah-blah-blah. If a one of them had any integrity they would renounce the whole mess. I suspect their is humorous gloating (dare I say smirking?) about the Geronimo's skull rumor. It continues to float around out there as part of S&B lore. No worries: I'm still ABB. Posted by: shylurker on May 21, 2004 07:00 PMTo All: I am going to push this issue of conspiracy a little bit more because I am hurt by the surliness of some of the comments. I must be taking things personally. I still have not gotten my original question answered because of the reactive response of a few, who seemed to turn my question on it's head, and perhaps did not go back to the beginning of the posting to get the larger picture(where the source was posted and my question listed). Do I dare to repeat my question without raising a lot of misunderstanding? I do not want to fight with anyone. I am a peace maker. Further Saturn is transiting my 7th house with Cancer on the cusp which has to do with confrontation which I am very, very bad at and have hard lessons to learn and therefore will stick up for myself now. I want to know if any of you ever look at something on the internet (disbelieve it) and find that in a week or two it has become a mainstream news item?? I am simply wondering internally about the inconsistency of it all. That's all. That was my simple question!! I know that it is not the most profound question, but all questions large or small are deserving of merit and consideration. We can always skip over something we aren't interested in. MIKE: I do not feel or think that Bush's Saturn Return is the only thing that matters, and every other topic must be discounted, hushed up, or eliminated. America has bigger problems than Bush's Saturn and all issues need equal consideration, conspiracy, or not. Furthermore, with all the cover-up of criminal behavior on the part of this administration , conspiracy is simply the attitude many individuals adopt and gravitate to for want of the truth. The administration brings this kind of thinking on its self. Confirmation of the overwhelming "behind the scenes dealings" can be found on Marjorie Orr's Inauguration Chart for those who doubt the dirty dealings of this administration. This last sentence is particularly directed to the unsigned poster from 4.22. Posted by: Beverly on May 21, 2004 07:19 PMBeverly, you are right. All honest questions deserve an answer and I want to apologize for not thoroughly reading your post. I have a mental block when it comes to conspiracy theories (there are so many out there!) that I just skimmed through. I've seen items reported on our local news websites that eventually make their way to Fox (ick) or CNN -- sometimes 2 or three weeks later. I've also seen items disappear very quickly because none of the "main stream" media bites. Remember the story about Kerry's supposed affair? Died fairly quickly. None of the big boys would pick it up. There is so much out there that it is almost impossible to sort through it all and maintain some perspective. It doesn't help when rumors and lies are spread throughout the internet. Please don't misunderstand. I am not accusing you of doing that. You asked a question. I don't know how or why some of this stuff gets out there. Some may contain a germ of truth. Some was done maliciously. But mostly I think that people grasp onto these theories because they are desperately trying to explain the unexplainable. Beverly, be skeptical. Check your sources several times and always question. By the way, Saturn doesn't necessarily make you confrontational but it can make you oversensitive. It just passed a sqaure to my sun and mars and is now opposing my moon. I'm a mess. Posted by: Teresa on May 21, 2004 07:50 PMGood one, Shylurker, real good one! And I agree with Dommael, that S&B stuff needs to come out. Its just sickening that our only two real choices for President come down to members of that depraved secret society which really in so many ways is symptomatic of everything that is wrong with this country. And nothing sums this up better than the story of the skull of Geronimo. That said, I doubt there is a snowball's chance in hell it will come out... Yesterday I read an excellent piece in the print edition of the current Harper's--an essay titled "What Democracy? The case for abolishing the United States Senate" by Richard N. Rosenfeld. Basically his thesis is that the Senate is an antiquated vestige of the undemocratic aspects of the US Constitution that were the result of John Adams' victory over Thomas Paine in arguments framing the Constitution. (A victory which was simply the result of the larger states finally giving in to the obstinacy of the smaller states). Adams was a man of considerable wealth and wanted to ensure that we had rule by the wealthy instead of a true democracy which he thought no better than mob rule. Ironically, Adams wanted a system more like the British Constitution divided between the power of the one (the king) the wealthy few (House of Lords) and the many (House of Commons). Even more ironically, our system now is even more antiquated than the British for a long time ago they bequeathed all the legislative power to the House of Commons with the monarchy and House of Lords serving only an advisory role. Now we have a system that can hardly really be called democracy as the power of the Senate is really the power of the wealthy, and as a result of the Senate's factoring in the electoral college is the power of a minority over the majority. If the electoral college were determined by the House of Representatives alone, and thus truly a democratic representation, then obviously the chimp wouldn't even have had the chance to become the WORST PRESIDENT EVER! It's a really good read, and I think ties in with this S&B discussion as that society is certainly a vestige of the same plutocracy. Our "democracy" has evolved so much since our founding fathers, Rosenfeld I think is right in articulating what needs to come next. Posted by: Timothy on May 21, 2004 07:54 PMImportant announcement by Kerry for astrological Beverly, "I want to know if any of you ever look at something on the internet (disbelieve it) and find that in a week or two it has become a mainstream news item??" Yes. For instance there is the bit about Dubya's uncle facilitated funding of 9-11 terrorists. I saw that months ago and discounted it at first. Then I started researching and found evidence to back it up. Couple of days ago, the WaPo had article on it. And then there's Aristide and his being forced to leave Haiti. We discovered that online and reports came from the Black Caucus affirming it, but still nothing from mainstream. Democracy Now and The Black Commentator did excellent pieces on it. Mainstreet still covering up facts. "I am simply wondering internally about the inconsistency of it all." Don't feel alone there. This administration has utilized psyc ops domestically and militarily - so much so that few of us know what's going on, which is why it's so important for each of us to bring our little tidbit to the table and try to put the pieces together. Sometimes they don't fit, but that could be because we don't have all the pieces. I am skeptical and I do question. I was thinking this a.m. about Mike's comments last night. I spend a lot of my time each day trying to piece together what's going on so that I can write my Senator or whomever. Sometimes I get overwhelmed and too focused on that. For me, I try to stay centered on the fact that this Administration lies, misrepresents, misleads... and shrouds the really bad stuff in secrecy. More importantly, it is determined to take us a direction I do not believe we want to go. So I don't need to know every bad thing they've done... just enough to get them out of the White House and into prison. Power to the people, right? Right! Peace Posted by: Jo on May 21, 2004 08:07 PMActually, Congress is a result of a compromise between the states with large populations and those that had fewer people. The House of Rep. was based on population. Senate was equal representation for each state and the reps from each state chose the senators for that state. There was finally an amendment to the Constitution that allowed for the people to directly elect their senators. So both houses are "democratically" chosen now. Unfotunately, idealism and the common good seem to disappear once they are elected and for many winning the next election become their reason for being. Sorry to be so wordy today. Don't know what's gotten into me. Posted by: Teresa on May 21, 2004 08:17 PMBeverly, I'm sorry your question got overwhelmed by all of the other stuff. I'll tell you one time when I got burned. Several months ago Axis of Logic published an interview with a US soldier describing conditions in Iraq. I copied and pasted it and forwarded it to everyone in my address book. The next day the website published an apology, saying the article was the complete fabrication of a rogue writer. I forwarded an apology to everyone I'd emailed and I've never visited that website again. My problem isn't disbelieving something and finding something to be true, it's the reverse. One nifty side effect from the Net is that those of us that navigate it have had to develop sharp critical thinking skills and finely~tuned BS detection methods. As bhakti points out, the dinosaurs' days are numbered, no matter what they do. Timothy, very, very interesting point. I think we should convert the Senate into a day care facility. We might not even have to relocate any government officials. http://salon.com/news/wire/2004/05/21/kerry/print.html Kerry weighs not taking nomination John Kerry is considering not accepting the Democratic presidential nomination at the party's July convention so that he can keep spending the millions of dollars that he raised during the primaries, The Associated Press has learned. If Kerry were to delay acceptance of his nomination for a month, he would even the playing field with President Bush, who is planning to accept the nomination at the Republican National Convention five weeks later. The party convention would still be held at the end of July, but Kerry would officially accept the nomination at a later date under such a plan. Kerry and Bush are expected to use federal funding for their general election campaign and will be limited to spending the roughly $75 million in federal funds given to each candidate once they accepts the nomination. At that point, neither candidate would be able to raise or spend private funds. "We are looking at this and many other options very seriously because we won't fight with one hand behind our back," Kerry spokeswoman Stephanie Cutter said Friday. Cutter said other options being considered include having the Democratic National Committee or local and state Democratic parties raise money to support Kerry's candidacy. However, Kerry would not have control of much of the money raised by the party. By law, the DNC cannot coordinate more than roughly $16 million of spending with Kerry's campaign in the general election. Delaying the nomination would be a dramatic move and is believed to be the first time a candidate would ask his party to reschedule his nomination so he could stop the clock from ticking on his general-election government financing. Posted by: Pat on May 21, 2004 08:51 PMTeresa and Jo: Thank you for your comments and consideration. I sometimes think I am too sceptical. When I first saw pictures of prisoner abuse, I moved out of the site immediately because I thought they were fake when in fact they were real. When I first started reading about Peak Oil about 6 mos. ago, I didn't believe any of that either and now it is being reported in main stream media. "National Geographic" Cover article for June 2004 is about peak oil. I felt the same way about Project for A New American Century. I didn't believe any of that either but it is a fact. Here is a link to most recent news on peak oil: http://money.cnn.com/2004/05/20/markets/oil_reserves/index.htm?cnn=yes.......I rule things out too quickly, when perhaps I should give some of the more unsavory perspectives more consideration....Now I want to ask a question about 9/11 Investigation Committee. Does anyone know if the PNAC will be investigated based on their underlying premise "That we need a Pearl Harbor" in order to implement our plan. (9/11 being eqivalent to Pearl Harbor). I saw some comments here yesterday about a suspicion of White Wash from the commission and thought I would ask you all what you think. Any comments? Posted by: Beverly on May 21, 2004 08:52 PMJust that I think "suspicion" of a whitewash of the 9-11 commission is probably not a strong enough phrase. "Confirmation" is maybe a more accurate word. I hear you, Beverly. Some things are so ludicrous, so bad that we don't want to believe them. And when so many things you hold dear (as expressed in the Declaration of Independence, Constitution and Bill of Rights) are being trampled--well, it's maddening and heartbreaking. I think it is wonderful, Beverly, that you are refusing to succumb to the mind- and emotion-numbing propaganda that's out there. Instead, you have chosen (and that's an important word) to be knowledgeable and informed. Yes, there's tons of stuff on the internet that is suspicious and, yes, there is also info on the internet that e-v-e-n-t-u-a-l-l-y gets picked up in the mainstream medium. We just have to keep going for the good stuff, the stuff we can verify. And then spread the news about that. Pat, your article about Kerry delaying the nomination is very interesting. Why does it seem to me like one side is playing by the rules and the other side isn't? I'm pretty sure the Bu$h cabal isn't terribly worried about following financial guidelines (then again, that's how the Feds busted Al Capone ~ for tax evasion.) I'm getting a bit antsy about Kerry. When is he going to start swinging? The iron is hot, man!!! I hope this new plan isn't a mistake. I think what happens with the conspiracy theories is that imagination and speculation gets so intertwined with the known facts. Its like, we all believe in reincarnation, but who someone might have been falls in the realm of pure conjecture rather than fact. It becomes the historical novel with certain known facts woven in to support the drama. The difficulty is deciding which is fact and which is fantasy, and too many, myself included, tend to throw the whole thing out on first read if there is too much conjecture included. For my part it is due more to not wanting to get sucked into every nitty gritty detail of the deception web due to time constraints. I tend to look at the big picture knowing there are lies and deception on all fronts, without wanting to get into the miriad of sleazy details. Interesting article. Gives some more insight into what Sally was saying recently about King Abdullah (Jordan). Also, confirms what we all know: Bush is even more ill-informed than the average watcher of FOX/666 broadcasts. Dommael and Skylurker: You both have done a lot of investigating on your own. Thanks for sharing what you have learned and especially your thoughtful and reasoned point of view. Posted by: Beverly on May 21, 2004 09:26 PMyou all are great. wonderful souls who I am so happy to correspond with!!! (Morgana, we all think of you, daily.) Beverly, I smiled when I read your confrontation confession, I think you're beating it! I saw Ann Richards- (YAY!!! for Ann), on Larry King last night, she was adamantly expressing how the mainstream news should start reading blogs; said they'd be able to get the news that way. In a hurry, have a date with my children tonight, but 'lest you all still think there is reason that our government can be trusted, try reading this synopsis when you have some time: http://www.revelation2seven.org/WebPages/Chapter14.pt2..htm PEACE & LOVE, Peg Posted by: Peg on May 21, 2004 09:41 PMDommael and Everyone: F.Y.I. Look at "Bush, 2004 GOP Convention". It won't be so easy for Bush according to Vis Numar, the author. The talk here of Kerry's hesitation/delay reminded me of the article written last summer. Hope this link works OK. http://www.astroworld.us/archives/000259.html Posted by: Beverly on May 21, 2004 09:49 PMBeverly, I certainly don't believe the government en-mass can be trusted. I also believe there are some genuine people within government who are trying their best with the corrupt system they find themselves dealing with. I also think it is possible that there are some in govt. who could be a source of these theories in an attempt to paint anyone who looks at even a few of the stories as total nutcases, and so in the process discredit every item within the theory. Any chance one of our expert astrologers could put a little bug in someone's ear at the Kerry Campaign and suggest the best time for his acceptance speech? Posted by: Teresa on May 21, 2004 10:18 PM
On the morning of 9/ll, as I tuned into CNN and If someone had told me the day before, I would have NEVER believed it! By the same token, so .................................................. On another Topic: NOT SO that evening. He got almost everything I have tried to contact him, but it was useless. I think 'The Founding Fathers & Co" are really Our tax dollars at work, example # - actually, I lost count. This taken from today's Joshua Micah Marshall's Talking Points Memo. Be sure also to read all the quotes he's got from Gen. Zinni (speaking, e.g., of the situation as Iraq as "going over the Niagara Falls."): OK, the press has now understood that Chalabi was providing US intelligence to the Iranian intelligence service. That's a start. Where did he get the intelligence to leak? Who gave Chalabi the leaked classified information? Hmmmm. Who were Chalabi's US government interlocutors? What a mystery ... -- Josh Marshall This taken from today's Joshua Micah Marshall's Talking Points Memo. Be sure also to read all the quotes he's got from Gen. Zinni (speaking, e.g., of the situation as Iraq as "going over the Niagara Falls."): OK, the press has now understood that Chalabi was providing US intelligence to the Iranian intelligence service. That's a start. Where did he get the intelligence to leak? Who gave Chalabi the leaked classified information? Hmmmm. Who were Chalabi's US government interlocutors? What a mystery ... -- Josh Marshall Oh, no, I've started to double-post again. Sigh. Gotta go check my blood pressure. Do some yoga. Meditate. You know: calm down. Posted by: shylurker on May 22, 2004 12:06 AMBreathe, shylurker. Find your happy place. Speaking of questions, as Beverly was above, I have asked this question twice I think in the past several months... the astrologers on this board do so much, I'm sure it got lost in the shuffle... so I'm going to try again. I don't have astrol software or I would do the chart myself... would someone please do a progressed chart on the USA... for 7/4/2004.I can do it by hand but since we're looking at 228 years this July 4th, the Solar Arc degree will be off enough to make the chart inaccurate. I come up with circa February 17, 1777 as the day so would appreciate some help here. I have a particular interest in nRx planets... in the case of USA, nMercury and nPluto are both Rx. I'm also interested in when nPluto went D --- the year it began the station, and the year it ended. Also with Mercury, the year it went D and beginning and ending of station. The year 1777 shows Jupiter, Uranus and Neptune Rx and I am curious about the years those individual stations began, when planet went Rx and when stations ended. I have a particular interest in stations as I have observed from charts of members of my family with nRx planets that times when those planets go D are significant. For instance, I myself was born with Venus Rx. The year pVenus turned D was a traumatic year for me and my entire life changed. It will be returning to its natal position in 2 years and I expect that year to be significant also. I've asked before in conjunction with the Rx planets in the nUSA chart, how we read those counterpoints, and how we interpret progressions for entities, like a nation... or if we can at all. In other words, I have always thought that transits indicate opportunities for something happening outside, external... while progressions indicate psychological or inward changes. I would really be interested in the thoughts and comments of those on the board in this regard. Namaste Posted by: Jo on May 22, 2004 12:17 AM....right on, as usual.... http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/gate/archive/2004/05/21/notes052104.DTL&type=printable Posted by: wv on May 22, 2004 12:31 AMJo, have you seen this site? You can do all the progressed charts you would like and save them. Posted by: Pat on May 22, 2004 12:32 AMLOL! Sheesh! Here is the link. http://www.astro.com/ Posted by: Pat on May 22, 2004 12:32 AMI just took a look at the solar return chart for the start of the US war against Iraq, 3/20/03 at 5:30 am Baghdad time, the rising sign for this chart is conjunct saturn in cancer and the 12th house the house of secrets has a cusp of 29 degrees of taurus and is conjunct mars at 28 degrees. telling, isnt it? with chiron on the 8th house cusp of 26 degrees of capricorn, i think that also speaks for itself. looking ahead a little bit, it seems as if the fact that the moon is in pisces at 9 degrees and 15 degrees of pisces is ruling the tenth house, neptune will not be far from any analysis anytime soon, sad to say, so more deceit, lies, etc. coming our way from this debacle. Posted by: Isabelle Ghaneh on May 22, 2004 12:42 AMI just heard that Bush is making a major policy speech on Iraq on Monday. From what Sally said, that ain't such a good time for Bush. Mars opposing Pluto again or something like that. Posted by: Dave on May 22, 2004 01:11 AMIsabelle, there would also be 29 degrees Scorpio on 6th house, right? any other houses with the 29? Pat, I have been to that site before, but I thought you had to subscribe... and I don't... Posted by: Jo on May 22, 2004 01:18 AMHi Jo, thats exactly right the 6th is at 29 degrees of scorpio and neptune the ruler of the tenth is in the 8th not really a pretty picture - Posted by: Isabelle Ghaneh on May 22, 2004 01:59 AMJo, one more thing www.astro.com is a GREAT Site, there is so much there you can do for free, and you are allowed as a guest to be able to do four (4) charts and save the, delete them start again etc. if you want the personal daily transits on a weekly, monthly basis, you have to pay for that, but you still are allowed to see yesterday, today and tommorrow for free! its a great site, please do check it out! Posted by: Isabelle Ghaneh on May 22, 2004 02:07 AMPat, Isabelle, Thanks so much for the tip on astro.com... I'll give them a visit. Posted by: Jo on May 22, 2004 02:20 AMdave, glad you asked! asssuming bush starts right at 8:00pm the stated time given in the yahoo article i read (which he may or may not do) the ascendant on the 24th of may monday would be right at 29 degrees of scorpio exactly conjunct the 6th house in the iraq solar return war chart. neptune of course, is in the third house during bushs speech, where else would it be? Posted by: Isabelle Ghaneh on May 22, 2004 02:21 AMIsabelle, you rock! Thank goodness the Bushites don't have an astrologer... Posted by: Jo on May 22, 2004 02:35 AMIsabelle, my own chart looks pretty heavy on the 24th as the transiting planets are contacting many of my natal points. I may pull the covers over my head Monday! Posted by: Jo on May 22, 2004 02:49 AMCan anyone offer an opinion of what the Mars-Saturn conjunction on the US 8th house cusp will do? That also occurs Monday night. Posted by: Teresa on May 22, 2004 03:18 AMJo, you and I will both be in deep cover on Monday and Tuesday. Remember, I have natal Merc at 9 Cancer, Moon at 11 Cancer, square Mars at 11 Aries. (Aries is 5th house, early to mid-Cancer is in 8th.) Ah, Saturn is in the mix and Mars is moving right up on it all. I have to poke my head outside Wednesday pm and hope all will be well. My husband who is not an astrologer just asked me when bush daddy's bday is. He told me it's his 80th and he's going sky diving! The date: June 12th.. This is the worst possible news! Sally! The last thing we all need is for that old f*&* to die and have that be baby bushies bad day! Hopefully daddy will be on the ground that day ! oops! Save this post! Posted by: Roxanne on May 22, 2004 03:41 AMMonday night should be a gas. Do you think he'll come out naked and in mud? Posted by: Roxanne on May 22, 2004 03:47 AMIf Bush is speaking again then we need to put on some protective goggles and get ready for an encore performance of that flashy tie from his last speech. Quick everyone! Look at the shiny object! Posted by: Dave on May 22, 2004 03:49 AMI don't know what they're smoking (or, perhaps, what they think we're smoking), but CNN wants to know if we think Bush has an exit strategy for Eye-rack. Go vote. Hey guys -- Bush is toast! When the 2nd highest ranking Demo [Nancy Pelosi] can call the pResident incompetent (among other things) in the middle of a war, when the CNN poll is 85% No to does he has a clear exit strategy in Iraq... [thanks for the tip Shylurker] He's gone to mess up big time Monday night... Guys, that's the new meme for election... 'Bush is incompetent' Shylurker, yes I do remember your planets in Cancer and Morgana has some same planets there too... guess the triplets better light some extra candles and get some rest... this too shall pass, right?! Roxanne, I almost fell out of my chair at that visual image you presented... you're a hoot! Dave, I think that tie is part of their mind control thing --- wear your sunglasses! Posted by: Jo on May 22, 2004 04:25 AMSomething political just occurred to me. I've heard a lot of people calling for Kerry to speak out against the war. And I was just thinking, okay, so what if he did? Then what would happen? I'll tell you what would happen: the Republicans and the press would be all over his case accusing him of flip-flopping. They'd shout and scream about how Kerry wasn't patriotic, about how he's too liberal, about how he can't offer steady leadership. In short, national focus would be drawn on to the Republican attacks, not the anti-war message. Indeed, I think it is unlikely that if Kerry were speaking out against the war that the actual case against the war would ever find its way into the public discourse. At least with Kerry staying consistent and on message, the case against the war and (by extension) against Bush is making itself because the focus is on the war and on Bush and not on Kerry. Posted by: Dave on May 22, 2004 04:30 AM
For example who did 9/11 benifit? Certainly not Afganistans or Talibam's. So it was probably not them. (I have learned enought about this to be able to say for sure it was not them) So look to who has benifited and in doing so, you usually can find who has a motive and who is part of a conspiracy. The conspircy theory was the gov. and media telling us that it was 19 mid east guys, 6 or 7 have proved to be alive. There is a conspiracy but the theory was the gov. story, not the true conspiracy. I learned a lot by looking at maps and history. It helps to weed out fact from fiction. It also helps to develop a group of trusted email friends who are diverse in location, religion, race, culture, etc. With the knowledge that comes from the diversity, as a group, you can weed out the lies from the truth. Or you can take the easy way and just turn what you hear in mainstream media 180 degress and that is usually the truth. Also learn what places usually prove true over time. For example, I have found that the Cuban newspaper is one of the most reliable, even though they do exagerate, but they don't lie. At least I have never caught one yet. Jean Posted by: Jean on May 22, 2004 04:54 AMClaudia Dikinis over at Starcats has posted this:
Larry, go read your first post (which was THE first post) on this series of comments, then go here: Well, this is interesting. http://www.daykeeperjournal.com/alex.shtml Posted by: Pat on May 22, 2004 06:39 AMRoxanne, the visual of Bush covered in that brown substance (not mud folks, I'd bet it has a high stench factor)would be oh so appropriate for the naked emperor. Hi Morgana! Between you and Roxanne, I won't be able to watch Monday night for laughing! [well, that's the case usually... what's new?] Hope you're feeling better... Posted by: Jo on May 22, 2004 03:35 PMJo, T Saturn and T Mars conjunct are sitting 'exactly' on my 4th h. 11 cancer n. uranus conjunct n. moon. Pre-op 5/25 still hanging in there with those aspects. Well, I'm for regime change --- from Repug to Demo and John McCain is still a REPUG, albeit not a Neocon, he's still a Repug... and no wait the Demos will support a Kerry/McCain ticket (they've sent that strong message to Kerry) and no way I would support McCain in replacement of Dubya on a GOP ticket... which is no problem... because it is the Neocons thru Cheney who are running this Administration... Dubya can't get dressed by himself... and they will do anything to change the poll numbers or the votes before they will change the folks on the ticket... IMHO Posted by: Jo on May 22, 2004 04:05 PMHi Everybody: It's gloomy here today (dark and rainy for several days) so I need to laugh. You all here do go to Jeff Rense's websites to keep up to date on the funny stuff don't you? Some of the pictures are so funny you need to be by yourself so you don't offend anyone. Other's are so painful to look at because the truth is depicted so artfully. Check them out at rense.com and click under Political Splashes. You will enjoy them. Posted by: Beverly on May 22, 2004 04:34 PMBeverly, bartcop usually has some mighty fine graphics, too. Posted by: shylurker on May 22, 2004 04:37 PMMorgana, always nice to see you on the board. No need to "hang" in there as things are better than you "think" they are. Keep good thoughts. Many, many blessings! Janet Posted by: Janet on May 22, 2004 04:41 PMMorgana, my granddaughter is finishing up her school year here, she came in March... I've been trying to relocate my Dad here... he's about 3 hrs away... but when I visited him last Tuesday, he seemed relunctant... he's 83 and I know it's difficult for him, but he was the one who brought it up about a six weeks ago, he was all fired up to come... I find myself reconciled to his staying where he is because I don't 'feel' he will be with us that much longer. I think my transits right now show something with him toward next two weeks... Problem with me trying to figure out my own stuff is I usually get it right I should be concerned and make sure I'm current with my relationships, but I usually get hit blindside --- the individual and the relationship is one I had not even considered! So, go figure... Morgana, when do you have surgery? I was under the impression you had already had the surgery? I don't mean to be invasive... so feel free to tell me to butt out! Us triplets need to be aware that the universe is speaking to us... [Duh, like we don't already know that, missy!] Shylurker, Morgana --- white light and blessings to all, peace and blessings and light Namaste Posted by: Jo on May 22, 2004 07:41 PMHeya Jo drop me an email morganaseawalker@pacbell.net I'm going to do an article on it. Life experience this one, ever see a gemenii sit still? hahaha. Posted by: Morgana on May 22, 2004 07:53 PMMorgana, Please check above as I doublechecked my address Thanks, Jo Posted by: Jo on May 22, 2004 08:26 PMOops, seawitch@pacbell.net do'h Posted by: Morgana on May 22, 2004 08:59 PMHey, Morgana! Great to see you! Man, oh, man things are getting interesting! So it turns out that the reason Bu$h acted so out~of~character when the King of Jordan paid him a visit is because Abdullah had irrefutable proof that Chalabi's #1 goon was an Iranian spy! This is the same Chalabi that has been pocketing over $300,000 a month from us since all this fun began. The same Chalabi that suckered Bu$h into believing he'd find oodles of WMD in Iraq. An Iranian spy. Bu$h CREATED Saddam to fight the Iranians. Saddam's weapons~of~mass~destruction were sold to him by Bu$h's Secretary of Defense, Donald Rumsfeld. There's a famous picture of young Donald smiling and shaking Saddam's hand like they were two fratboys at a kegger. What a fun conversation that must have been, with King Abdullah of Jordon bluntly telling Monkeyboy he's been conned by an Iranian Spy only two or three degrees away who's been selling US tactical maneuvers in both the planning and the implementation stages to the Iranian government. NO FRIKKIN' WONDER Junior was freaked out when the cameras were turned on him. No wonder he apologized then, but didn't bother when he was on Al~Jazeera TV two weeks earlier. Imagine what it's like for Bu$h, friends. Bu$h lives in a fantasy bubble. A delicious world of wealth, power, and the ability to exercise his will with impunity. An endless vision of wealth and prosperity for himself and his friends, the Elite of the Rich. Now he's finding out the damn Furies aren't only at the gate, they've been with him all along and he's just about to lose it all. November 2nd is el Dia de los Muertos and Samhain. The truth of September 11th had been masked, distorted and hidden from us. But one group who KNOWS the truth are the 3,000 souls who passed into the afterlife on that day. We are witnessing monumental events that will be shaping the fate of nations for eons, that will affect millions of people. For those of you who are awake, you can also witness the sweet vengeance of those innocent souls who died on 9~11 (and, incidentally, the karmic comeuppance of that creature in the White House.) Bu$h is having ANOTHER press conference on Monday? After the Press yanked bits of his flesh out at the last one? After Sy Hersh shouted out that Rummy himself authorized the Abu~Ghraib torture methods? Colin Powell is turning on his master - the State Department, Old School Republicans in Congress, and the frikkin' CIA are all sizing up the best way to remove Bu$h's head from his body. Pass. The. Popcorn. ~D Posted by: Dommael on May 22, 2004 10:09 PMShould Bush's taxcuts be permanent? Go tell cnn what you think. Posted by: shylurker on May 22, 2004 10:32 PMSigns of shrub disaster is everywhere.First,Mike Teresa Get a V chip for your TV so that your mother It works with kids.... Posted by: wv on May 22, 2004 11:17 PMwv! LOL! Good one! http://salon.com/ent/wire/2004/05/22/fahrenheit_911/print.html "Fahrenheit 9/11" wins top prize at Cannes May 22, 2004 | CANNES, France (AP) -- American filmmaker Michael Moore's "Fahrenheit 9/11," a scathing indictment of White House actions after the Sept. 11 attacks, won the top prize Saturday at the Cannes Film Festival.
"What have you done? I'm completely overwhelmed by this. Merci," Moore said after getting a standing ovation from the Cannes crowd. The grand prize, the festival's second-place honor, went to South Korean filmmaker Park Chan-wook's "Old Boy," a blood-soaked thriller about a man out for revenge after years of inexplicable imprisonment. Moore was momentarily flabbergasted when he took the stage to accept the award, a big difference from his fiery speech against President Bush after winning the best-documentary Academy Award for 2002's "Bowling for Columbine." "You have to understand, the last time I was on an awards stage, in Hollywood, all hell broke loose," Moore said. The best-actress award went to Maggie Cheung for her role in "Clean" as a junkie trying to straighten out her life and regain custody of her young son after her rock-star boyfriend dies of a drug overdose. More... Posted by: Pat on May 22, 2004 11:47 PM
Bush Offers Crooks and Warmongers to Lead Iraq Anybody heard about the Son King falling... Dommael, I loved your comment way back about the barrel of crude, and thanks for the bit on Malmsey. Still trying to catch up, so if this is a repeat, my appologies. THE DAILY MIS-LEAD =============================== STONEWALLING ON BIN LADEN/SAUDI FLIGHTS AFTER 9/11 With questions swirling about who authorized allowing relatives of Osama bin Last year, Secretary of State Colin Powell acknowledged that, even as all Yet now, even as White House officials claim that "the [P]resident has fully Immunity=impunity Y'know, Jo, he could have had a seizure. There is that rumor out there on the internet that he has seizures. If true, that would account for his doctor biking 18 miles (18 MILES?) in order to be nearby. 'Course, the doc could have really been riding in the ol' Chevvy pick-up Smirky uses while cleaning brush on the ranch. Just idle speculation. Posted by: shylurker on May 23, 2004 01:37 AMY'know, Jo, he could have had a seizure. There is that rumor out there on the internet that he has seizures. If true, that would account for his doctor biking 18 miles (18 MILES?) in order to be nearby. 'Course, the doc could have really been riding in the ol' Chevvy pick-up Smirky uses while cleaning brush on the ranch. Just idle speculation. Posted by: shylurker on May 23, 2004 01:37 AMShylurker, Jo, in response to your questions: PS My favorite one at DU is the person who pooh-poohed all the other guesses and instead offered the best reason: he was trying to bike and talk at the same time. Posted by: shylurker on May 23, 2004 02:13 AMShylurker, Oh, dear, dear Jo, I do with I could answer all your questions. It is a trip, isn't it? They said some time ago that Smirky and Pickles would not be attending the twins' graduations. He's probably coming unglued. I've been looking into that evangelical movement he's with and they are very scarey. Apparently, he's in touch far more often with them than with, say, Colin Powell. And certainly in touch with them far more than he is with reality. PPS I sure hope they name this one Venus. CNN is reporting that reporters have been told not to be "alarmed" if Bush appears at his press conference on Monday in "bandages". Wonder what that is all about .. I read elsewhere that he had only minor injuries to his lip and knees? He was wearing a helmet and "mouth guard" while biking ..now that would be a pic to see! Also, the "doctor" that rode with him was there because he is also a member of the Secret Service. Posted by: Siobhan on May 23, 2004 02:53 AMDid they mention anything about his being in a strait-jacket, too? Posted by: shylurker on May 23, 2004 02:58 AMJo - in answer to your question wondering why Bush and Pickles did not attend their daughters graduations, I believe that their comment to news reporters was that they did not want to put the focus on "them" and not the graduates themselves, plus they said family members and friends attending the graduation ceremony would then have to spend hours going through metal detectors and searches. So, they opted to stay home. Seems the one daughter has already not attended herself, the other one graduates Monday .. I doubt she will show up either. There is to be a huge celebration party for the girls next week (in Crawford?) .. should be interesting. Posted by: Siobhan on May 23, 2004 02:59 AMOh Shylurker, Hummmm, I'm also wondering about that 18 mile bike trek ...I live in the south and today it was mega hot - over 90 degrees. Tried to do some gardening outside here this morning and it was already so hot that 30 minutes into it I quit for the day. I'm assuming it was just as hot, or hotter,in Crawford today .. what nut would go for an 18 mile bike ride wearing a helmet and mouth guard in this heat?? What doctor would allow it? Got to be more to this than "they" are reporting! Posted by: Siobhan on May 23, 2004 03:09 AMSiobhan, forgive me, but your question contains the answer, as in : "what NUT would go for an 18 mile bike ride"? oh great, siezures. if this is the case, they're probably temporal lobe: hallucinations, delusions, pseudo lucidity, paranoia, and collapse. terrific. these are amenable to neurusurgery (hostile thought). conspiracy a gogo! the chalabi 'siezure' is multi layered. chalabi is surely a rat and needs to be busted. this we knew for some time. he also had iraq's secret service files in his office and thought he could blackmail the big boys. oops! the real conspiracy layer here is a chess move by powell and the army to screw bush and the neocons. if chalabi ratted us out to iran, THOSE WHO HELPED CHALABI HELPED HIM RAT US OUT (it's the came logic the extreme catholics use-voting for a prochoice candidate causes abortions). in any event, now the army and powell have the whip hand, they think. all they need to do is turn on the press about 'the great betrayal' and bush is screwed. welcome to the 12th house. what powell and the military miss is the similarity of this stunt to rearranging the deck chairs on the atlantic. the beatings will continue until morale improves! Posted by: mike on May 23, 2004 05:56 AMforgot my depakote; meant deck chairs on the TITANIC not atlantic. Posted by: mike on May 23, 2004 05:58 AMhttp://nytimes.com/2004/05/22/opinion/22ASLA.html AND SO IT GOES...Here is a times article from yesterday. Irony of ironies, The Times 'ace' embedded reporter, Judith Miller, whipped up war sentiment about WMD in a fashion that made even Wm. Randolph Hurst turn over in his grave. Guess who her source was? Chalabi. Looks like The Times is heading for cover. Still missing the point -- this is all about palace intrigue between the bushster and harry belefonte's favorite general. “The Americans are claiming that Mr. Chalabi passed secret intelligence to Iran. This may or may not be true — he has long had ties to the Tehran government — but in any case it provides a convenient excuse to pin all the occupation's failings on him. No weapons found? It must be because of bad intelligence fed to the Pentagon by Mr. Chalabi's political group, the Iraqi National Congress. Terrorism on the rise? Must be because the Baath Party and the military were disbanded after the war at Mr. Chalabi's insistence. The growing insurgency? It would not have happened had Mr. Chalabi not told us that American troops would be welcomed with flowers. “ BRING IT ON! Posted by: on May 23, 2004 06:12 AMWow! It just occurred to me that the Neocon Cabal Corporate Takeover of September 11th was planned with the same foresight as the Invasion of Iraq! Don't ya get it? THEY HAVE NO EXIT STRATEGY. They always figure on best case scenarios and don't plan for alternate series of events. All they can do is keep blaming everyone else no matter how bad it gets. The minute Bu$h has to admit he's made a mistake he is TOAST. That means, instantly, that he is NOT an agent of God. That means Iraq is not a Holy war for people's souls but only an unjust war using American lives to steal oil. It proves he is just the greedy, petty, stupid man he's been accused of being. Bu$h is realizing he HAS no exit strategy. It's inevitable. The wolves are closing in. Nobody in Texas rides a bike 18 miles in the end of May. He either escaped from the asylum or he has just lost his mind. You guys ever remember a President giving a press conference wearing bandages? EVER? I'm really starting to think there are some ugly mother'f'*s just barely behind the scenes here. What if the White House is really being run by Tony Soprano and Bu$h told him he didn't WANT to do another press conference on Monday. Just think about that for a second. This is AMERICA. We basically just leave the Death Penalty up to individual regions. You know what I'm saying? If Public sentiment is outraged enough, there's no telling where this could end. Yes, Americans are lazy, dumb and stupid, but you DON'T want to piss off 290,000,000 of 'em. We've already been through Watergate and Monicagate, so your average person has a rough idea of how impeachment works. If his peers really wanted him DEAD, I don't know how many Americans would rise to his defense. Cheney, Rumsfeld and Rove might have George on suicide watch before too long. That's going to break Condi's heart. Personally, when we put this bunch on trial, I think we need to hold the major media figureheads accountable, too. They sold Bu$h's war, they need to answer for it. It's not like the planet gave the Ministers of Propaganda a break when the Nazi's were cornered. Hitler didn't stick around to see how it went down, either. Dommael - we are on the same wavelength, I saw Bush's fall as a refusal to do the press conference on Monday; as a child will plead ill when he doesn't want to go to school, you know, hiding the thermometer under the bed to get it hot and then sticking it in his mouth, 'please mommy don't make me go to school, I'm sick today', etc. I think that is Bush's mentality, anyway, and since I think he is a figurehead who is told what to do, my thoughts on hearing of his falling off his bike was just that, he fell off on purpose to make it look like he was injured and then couldn't do the conference his "handlers" have told him to do. Maybe the bruises just weren't bad enough for him to get a pass. He may have to try harder next go-around. Posted by: Isabelle Ghaneh on May 23, 2004 09:13 AMI don't believe for a minute either that buschie went "bike riding." Lesions on his face? AGAIN? I think along the lines of AIDS. This guy is a closet gay filled with angst & self-hatred... one of the worst. And so's his dad. And the GOP is filled with them. This particular species always projects his "evil" on others... the cause of much misery for all people. * Perverts, Voyeurs & Peeping Toms: A short history of the GOP - By Jane Stillwater, Baltimore Chronicle http://baltimorechronicle.com/052104Perverts.shtml ----------- Bush eating dirt. I like the symbolism. It is soooooo Saturnian. The fall from grace begins........... Posted by: Shade on May 23, 2004 12:24 PMHere's a very interesting article:
"I am writing this from Frederick, Maryland. I've just been filming, for I must try this ruse sometime. It worked on Olson. He postponed the -- Jon Ronson, The Guardian, August 17, 2002 In the summer of 2003 (back when President Bush was renouncing the use Drawing uncomfortable conclusions about the Bush administration's secret More than 40 years ago, another film spawned similar qualms. United A wildly imaginative political thriller which sprang from Richard Condon (An additional irony, which may be more curious than telling but is First released in 1962, using the Cold War as a backdrop (and then taken When you peek beneath the Manchurian Candidate's fascinating plotline, In 1950, the U.S. government established the first program to develop more.......... Posted by: Shade on May 23, 2004 02:29 PMBoy, could we use more of this! Prison Visits By General Reported In Hearing - Alleged Presence of Sanchez Cited by Lawyer A military lawyer for a soldier charged in the Abu Ghraib abuse case stated that a captain at the prison said the highest-ranking U.S. military officer in Iraq was present during some "interrogations and/or allegations of the prisoner abuse," according to a recording of a military hearing obtained by The Washington Post. The lawyer, Capt. Robert Shuck, said he was told that Army Lt. Gen. Ricardo S. Sanchez and other senior military officers were aware of what was taking place on Tier 1A of Abu Ghraib. Shuck is assigned to defend Staff Sgt. Ivan L. "Chip" Frederick II of the 372nd Military Police Company. During an April 2 hearing that was open to the public, Shuck said the company commander, Capt. Donald J. Reese, was prepared to testify in exchange for immunity. The military prosecutor questioned Shuck about what Reese would say under oath. "Are you saying that Captain Reese is going to testify that General Sanchez was there and saw this going on?" asked Capt. John McCabe, the military prosecutor. "That's what he told me," Shuck said. "I am an officer of the court, sir, and I would not lie. I have got two children at home. I'm not going to risk my career." Read the whole article! http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A48229-2004May22.html/?nav=yb-t1 Any of the fine astrologers care to take a shot at what the fallout from THIS might be? It airs at 7pm tonight: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/05/21/60minutes/main618896.shtml Posted by: Lucy on May 23, 2004 05:06 PMDrudge just posted a picture of him, supposedly post-18-mile-bike-ride wreck. Hmmmm, maybe he's starting to develop stomatas. http://tabletalk.salon.com/webx?50@@.4a859554/1654 Worth a long look. Posted by: Pat on May 23, 2004 06:33 PMRumsfeld bans camera phones in Iraq for the entire US Army http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s1114150.htm Posted by: Pat on May 23, 2004 07:11 PMJoannaOregon: Thanks for the article. Very Good. I might add to that Pro-life issue, that Republicans are the loudest to hollar for the rights of unborn but don't bat an eyelash as capital punishment. Skylurker: I am really enjoying your humor today. Posted by: Beverly on May 23, 2004 07:38 PMCheck this out. Hope the link works. "THE REPUBLICAN ELEPHANT" I guess I feel mean today. http://topplebush.com/photos205.shtml Posted by: Beverly on May 23, 2004 07:46 PMI'm interested in some posts that are up toward the top of this thread. They are relating to speculation about Bush and his previous incarnation(s). Someone wondered if maybe Bush was Caligula. Another thought was Napoleon, Hitler and a few others. While I'm tempted to point the finger directly at Caligula (admittedly, the resemblance is there), I'm going to gravitate to Hitler and his minions. I've read several threads on the DU which have linked the Bush administration to German ancestors. Bush's grandfather, Prescott Bush was involved with the Nazis and I believe his wealth was made off the blood & deaths of concentration camp prisoners. But maybe there are other links? I read that before Bush took off for his state visit with the Queen, it was said that the two were related. We know that the Queen and her family are directly related to German nobility (I think the Coburg-Saxe). So the Bush family might be able to trace German roots. It's well known that Rumsfeld is German. This is just 1 generation ago. I read that he has half a village in Northern Germany which claims kinship to him. Before the war in Iraq started, they pleaded with him not to go to war. Just recently, I read that Karl Rove is actually the grandson of a Herr Roverer who was a card-carrying Nazi. He was apparently executed for war crimes later. I don't know anything about the family history of Cheney, Ashcroft. I will try to find out. Someone mentioned that people tend to reincarnate in groups. It certainly seems like this "group" has a real fraternal feel to it, like they are old cronies, reunited again. Also, we need to mention the obvious symbolism which is so similar to the Nazis. Note "Homeland Security". I was astounded by the images that this administration has published. The obvious images of Bush as The Savior, Jesus, with a halo around his head. There are so many photo-ops of Bush standing in front of props like the Washington Monument, a portrait of Washington, busts & statues. The Nazis were like that, too. Also, the secrecy and paranoia remind me of the Nazis. This administration has attempted to control the media from day one. It hasn't succeeded by the way. I've read in Hindu literature that families can have either tamasic (evil) tendencies, or sattwic (good) tendencies which can follow many generations. We tend to be drawn to families which we have a lot in common with (but not always). For example, the child of a very evil man may very well carry on those same tendencies. This child may also end up paying for the sins of his ancestors which leads me to believe that individuals tend to reincarnate in the same families. Why else would a grandchild be forced to pay for the karmic sins of his grandfather, unless he "was" the grandfather or earlier relative? Which leads to some interesting theories about how this current administration is robbing from the next generation. Maybe they will be the ones who have to pay later on? Posted by: CLiss on May 23, 2004 08:06 PMCorleonis: Getting back to your question from a few days ago about mediumship. I personally believe that we all are born with certain psychic trends but repress them due to the materialistic nature of our culture which doesn't allow or accept such gifts that can't be seen, heard, touched, etc. I have only seen John Edwards on TV once and I was sitting there thinking that he was just picking stuff up from the people's aura which contains cellular memory. I waiver on the issue because I don't have such talent and therefore think that nobody else does either but that is not true. What do you think about it? I don't know if you have ever read the series of "The Celestine Phrophecy" - James Redfield. He says that eventually these two area will meld. Earth and Afterlife and that such gifts will become common place. Have you read his work? They are novels based on the coming Spiritual Rennisance(sp). Some little children have imaginary playmates, see aura, and speak another language fluently before that age where society invalidates their reality. With my Moon and Saturn in my 8th house in Virgo, I had great difficulty moving beyond my own defended belief system about such matters. I am interested in hearing your opinions. Posted by: Beverly on May 23, 2004 08:08 PMMost have heard by now of Chalabi's fall from grace with the Administration --- and the charge that he was passing US intel to the Iranians. There's alot of controversy about whether he's gone or being set up to become a hero and subsequently the leader of Iraq (or rather it's puppet gov't). Newt Gingrich was on Geo. S.'s show today actually defending Chalabi. But many feel he is out and will be the fall guy for the admin which will say 'they' were conned into invading Iraq [not that 'they' lied us into Iraq]. One of the things we must be ready to do in order to defeat Bush is to bring home to the Demos some of the Repubs who are disgusted with Bush... so we need to be able to counter this propaganda that is soon to come. You might want to check out this link for some ammunition. Namaste Posted by: Jo on May 23, 2004 08:26 PMApologies if this has been seen already. ___ *"It's been raining a lot and the topsoil is loose," * the spokesman said. "You know this president. He likes to go all out. Suffice it to say he wasn't whistling show tunes." Oh, really????? Go to www.weather.com, and type in the forecast for zip code 76638 (Crawford Texas). Click on "Yesterday" and notice that they had zero rainfall yesterday. Then check May 21. Then check May 20, May 19, May 18, May 17 and May 16. Zero precipitation, zero rainfall for a week straight. It's also been in the 80s and 90s most of the week. Weather Underground says the last time the area got rain was Friday, May 14, 2004. It was a whopping 0.02 inches that day. On May 13th is was a more generous 0.92 inches. There was a trace of rain on May 11th, but then you have to go all the way back to May 1st. May 1st was wet: 2.89 inches. But that was three weeks ago! Now the question is this: Why would the White House lie about Bush falling off a bicycle due to rain that never occurred? Did he actually fall off a bicycle or did he trip and fall down some steps? If the administration would lie about something so small as this what wouldn't they lie about?
Cass, I saw that and wondered if it was raining but every other point in the story was incredible so... He was NOT riding a bicycle... I tried to do some calculations to determine if he could actually ride 16/17 miles out on his ranch... it's only 1600 acres for pity's sake... in Texas they call that a 'farm' I believe... Anyway, accept that they NEVER tell the truth and you're home free... Namaste Posted by: Jo on May 23, 2004 09:25 PMJo: Hello--Did you hear Bob Novak on "Face the Nation" this morning? He says the ones disgusted with Bush can be appealed to if the President takes a hard stand on the Gay Marriage issue. (Paraphrasing) "Those republicans can be recovered even if they are upset with medicare legislation, war issues, no child left behind". He also said that the republicans upset with Bush still want him to win re-election eventhough they may be temporarily disgusted. The President has an 81% approval rating with the Republican in general. Bob Novak lives in a dream world. I sit there listening just shaking my head.... How on earth is an election going to be decided on a Gay Marriage issue with all the other much more serious things going on? He also said having "Kerry elected as President would be a fate worse than death". How could anyone with a properly functioning intellect make such a comment. I am sick and tired of Clinton being blamed for everything whenever the Repugs have a crisis. They still say it around here where I live. All the time. They have to keep shoving the morality thing down our throats when they don't have any of there own. I am also sick of hearing them tell us ALL THE TIME how conservative the country is turning since Clinton's immorality. It's just not true and makes my stomach go in knots. Posted by: Beverly on May 23, 2004 09:30 PMNice simple/direct Astute Observations & Canny Comments, Cass. I've passed them on. ;O) Posted by: JoannaOregon on May 23, 2004 09:37 PMMe too. Posted by: Pat on May 23, 2004 09:39 PMI know it's from Rense (sigh), but what's up with these Israelis in moving vans? Now they've turned up in GA. Why am I interested in all this kind of stuff? I have Scorpio rising, natch. Posted by: shylurker on May 23, 2004 09:43 PMYou don't have to go to Rense to get that... antiwar.com has it... on 9/11 there was a moving van with 5 Israelis and a camera... 'course that's some more of that 'tin foil' hat conspiracy stuff... If you're interested go to antiwar.com and check out Justin Raimondo's columns - he's the editor. He has a series on the 'Israeli Art Students' that everyone ought to read... Namaste Posted by: Shylurker on May 23, 2004 09:49 PMI've been wondering about Chalabi and his role with the "incarnate group" in charge right now. The threads of power and money fraud. Found this in an old stariq piece: Ahmad Chalabi (October 30, 1944; Baghdad, time unknown) was born with a powerful Sun-Mars-Mercury triple conjunction in Scorpio. These planets square Pluto, giving Chalabi a warrior's instincts. I notice also his saturn is 10Cancer44, as well as a Virgo Jupiter. I'd be interested to hear what you expert astrologers think of his chart. Do you think his conman ways will catch up to him? By the way everyone, great comments about the bike incident. My initial feeling was a symbolic fall from grace - subsequent to, choking on his lies (the pretzel thing) and the knee problem, inflexibility. Posted by: Jeanie on May 23, 2004 10:14 PMThanks for the Houston Independent Media link, Shylurker! A giant, inflatable pig called "Hallibacon!" That's my home town for ya... Shylurker, No prob, Jo. I knew twas you. Posted by: shylurker on May 24, 2004 12:05 AMThank you Joanna & Pat for passing along the comments about bush's incident. I can't take credit for them. They were culled from comments over at www.dailykos. I still think the man is on drugs, lots of drugs. His liver must look like hell. It's refreshing to see Michael Moore's film receive the attention it is. Much like Al Franken's book it'll increase the curiosity factor. I've heard there is a clip of bush joking around while having makeup applied just before announcing the war. Surely for some that will be a tipping point. Posted by: Cass on May 24, 2004 12:32 AMDid anyone see Gen. Zinni on 60 Mins. tonight? He was powerful... I think he just handed Kerry the presidency on a platter... he said "we won't change course"? We'd better, we're headed over Niagra Falls... he blamed Rumsfeld and his band of Neocons... he called them 'neoconservatives' and named many of them... and said he had been accused of being anti-Semetic for doing so... he said the generals in the military blamed the civilians in the Pentagon for this mess! What do you say to Zinni for VP -- Kerry/Zinni ticket sounds good to me! Namaste Posted by: Jo on May 24, 2004 12:41 AMIsabelle, -------------- another thing about the 60 Mins episode, they invited Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz to appear, they didn't return the call... what was that you said about Rumsfeld, Isabelle? A career change in sight? Zinni was calling for 'heads to roll' --- Posted by: Jo on May 24, 2004 12:52 AMZini...VP...awesome!!! Raimondo...a sleazbag http://www.jdl-ny.org/raimondowatch.htm Posted by: mike on May 24, 2004 01:42 AMCLiss Rummy's head rolling as scheduled from Caput Algol? Bushie's 'head' injuries while 'rolling' on a bike? Love all the symbolic wordplay we all come up with as the Universe displays the real message through unexpected events. Mike, You are of course entitled to your opinion of Antiwar.com and Justin Raimondo. I just don't happen to share it. Namaste Posted by: Jo on May 24, 2004 02:25 AMThat's a wonderful picture of "shrub's" hand in IS THERE A GOOD PALMIST IN THE HOUSE? I am not very good, but it looks to me as though I do hope someone is good enough to give us an Maybe I'm soft in the head, but any opinion that starts off ~"There is a website called "Antiwar.com". It's run by a so-called Jew named Eric Garris"~ immediately screams an agenda. I think it's best to listen to all sides, Jewish, Palestinian, Iraqi, American, the Deceased and the Living. I went to see Troy last night ~ I'd forgotten how many characters there are in that story! I went out and picked up a used copy of the Illiad at the local bookstore to indulge in. The transaction was interrupted by a telephone call. After the owner answered it, she mentioned that one of her employees has a roommate that was in the military. She said the roommate calls about five times a day. "Sounds like he's co-dependent." I said. Don't want to read too much into this but it again reminded me that our soldiers are going to be re-entering our society and I'd venture that a great many of them are going to be psychologically scarred if not worse as a result of that great sucking sound in the Middle East. I'm thinking more and more that Kerry focusing on Healthcare during the Abu~Ghraib exposure was a sound move. We are going to have to depend on our mental health facilities and public care facilities in the near future. Not that all American soldiers are sick, just that the horrors that they have experienced need not be endured in Silence. Mike, url at antiwar.com for Jan 10, 2003 url at link posted on article for Jan 10, 2003 It appears to me that a fictious url has been appended to what appears to be Justin's article. I didn't print both articles out... the one linked to the link and the one in antiwar.com's archives, but I'll bet the original document has been redacted... I sent an email to JR at antiwar.com with the article at the link. The link gives only a url and indicates nowhere the author... If you really want to read Justin's articles and if you really want to determine if he is a sleazbag, I would suggest you read his articles directly from his website http://antiwar.com Namaste Check this website out~ I don't fear the Devil for he is a myth, however I'm terrified of the person who fears the Devil" -eDiablo Link through Bartcop.com, also sponsored by Democratic Underground, Greenpeace and the Sierra Club. Looks entertaining. During tomor' nights Bushspeak, Neptune will be opposite the Moon in the 9th house of foreign affairs and will be squaring Mercury in the 6th house of the speech chart. I don't think anyone in either the military or any other country will believe a word he says. Since Neptune rules the 4th house of home and family, he will attempt to deceive us, the citizens, again, but more and more people are on to him then every before. If the StarIQ data is correct, then Chalabi has an Aries Moon, which should make him forthright, which apparently he is not, so perhaps everything he does and says is a coverup for who he really is. Mercury, Mars and the Sun, are all in Scorpio, and of course, Scorpio is the Machievelian sign par excellence. Add to that the fact that Pluto squares them all and you can add power hungry megalomaniac to his list. Neptune squares Saturn, so his deceitful nature must be hidden in the angles of his chart, since we don't have the time to check it out.Of course, it may be just raw power he is after, the deceit is just realted to that, not an end in and of itself. In the transiting planets, the biggest aspect I can see is his Saturn return, always a major event in anyone's life. So he is going to be reaping what he has sown, since his last Saturn Return, when he was 29/30. Posted by: Isabelle Ghaneh on May 24, 2004 03:18 AMOh! That sounds awesome indeed! What times we live in. Posted by: Pat on May 24, 2004 03:23 AMIt Can't Happen Here - Sinclair Lewis http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks03/0301001h.html http://gutenberg.net.au/plusfifty.html#letterL Posted by: Pat on May 24, 2004 03:30 AMOn the last thread there was quite a bit of discussion about the upcoming June 8th transit of venus. It just occurred to me that is also the date of an anniversary that a lot of people are only just now beginning to be aware of. The 6/08/1967 attack on the USS Liberty by Israeli planes at the time of the 6 day war. I happen to be aware of the details of that disaster because my brother inlaw was one of the sailors extremely badly injured, and learning of that day prompted me to begin looking into the history of the Israeli/Palestinian issues as well as US govt lies in general. Now this is the kind of stuff that puts me in a tail-spin. Here's Bill Clinton in Brazil: Isabelle, Pat, these are 'some times' aren't they! Posted by: Jo on May 24, 2004 03:37 AMTrucks of Israelis? In Georgia? Mebbe on their way to/from N Carolina? Nasty School of the Americas where terr'ists, tortures, & other assorted criminals are "trained?" Certainly cld relate to each other. In my research, to make a long story short, anglos made several migrations/invasions from the extreme north of the Planet towards the warm lands of the equator d/t a very long drought making an already harsh life untenable. Two of the places they first hit/settled were India & the Mid-East. We can see their trademarks on both areas. They set up hierarchies/castes with themselves superior, a sky god full of thunder n' lightning n' sunlight as the six mos of yearly cold darkness they were used to enduring was an understandable bummer, a system of reward n' punishment (heavy on the punishment), almost exclusive dualistic thinking/ordering, enslavement of the locals, cooptation of the resources & the people's Life Force (sexual energy--most particularly of all, the women, whom they thot of as little more than domestic work/breed animals apparently), & violence/warring to make sure the system always went their way. (Sound familiar?) In the mideast, they forceably gathered local semetic tribes while setting themselves up as a separate "tribe" of elites... the Levites. The Levites were anglo. From where they "started out," they had two major abilities: herding animals (meat & meat product eaters--very little vegetables) & crude warring games to amuse themselves. They were big, stinky, & hairy. The crabby warring pink Israelis are definitely of anglo descent imo! Again, their trademark clawmarks on everything. Btw, I'm also pink... many times a cause for much sadness when watching the behaviors of some in this group which never seems to learn a blessed thing imo. Posted by: JoannaOregon on May 24, 2004 03:38 AMThanks Isabelle for the thoughts on Chalabi. Jo, I can hardly keep up. Sigh. Posted by: Pat on May 24, 2004 03:54 AMDrudge now has a truly unbelievable picture of Smirky after his crash. A close-up. Gross. Go there now. Posted by: shylurker on May 24, 2004 04:15 AMSkylurker... any URL? Please? Posted by: JoannaOregon on May 24, 2004 04:23 AM
Posted by: Pat on May 24, 2004 04:26 AM
Thanks, Pat. In my haste so folks wouldn't miss it, I omitted the crucial piece of info that would get them there. Sigh! Posted by: shylurker on May 24, 2004 04:30 AMNo problem shylurker. I've done it many times myself. :) Posted by: Pat on May 24, 2004 04:33 AMWacky! How can Bill Clinton say Iraq wasn't about oil?!? Clinton ushered in petro dollars which stimulated the US economy enormously. It was common knowledge France was working on cutting a deal with Saddam to accept Euros instead of US petro dollars. Little surprise Bushco was so pissy towards the French. Posted by: Cass on May 24, 2004 05:38 AMJeanie, I was only going on what he (Bill Clinton) said. And it made no sense to me. I have this very contrary notion that our leaders should tell us the truth. And if they do not, that we should subject them to merciless ridicule, for they hold our lives (all of us, all over this world) in the balance. Peace. Posted by: shylurker on May 24, 2004 06:08 AMSome News: I had lunch with a friend who works on the Kerry campaign at the HQ in DC. As I'm sure you all know, Kerry will be delaying his acceptance of the nomination until Labor Day weekend (5 weeks after the convention). What you may not be aware of is that the campaign has decided not to annouce who the vice president/running mate will be until that time. According to my friend, they have not made any decisions yet and they are keeping their options open. Methinks this is a good idea. Kerry should not make any comments about Iraq policy until after the "transfer of sovereignty." Likewise for picking the VP, which would likely have implications for his ultimate Iraq policy positions. I think we need more time before Kerry really begins to define himself. Events are happening so quickly that a stance which seems popular now might be devastating later on. I know this is kind of a shady approach to winning the election, but quite frankly I don't care. We're facing rigged electronic voting machines, a vast Republican echo chamber, and a president who will do anything and say anything to win. A little tactical planning is a good idea in my opinion. Posted by: Dave on May 24, 2004 06:30 AMShylurker, I agree with you wholeheartedly about telling the truth. As a Deanie, I'm grudgingly coming to tolerate Kerry, and it's from that perspective that I say the delay on accepting the nom is brilliant strategy, especially at the burn rate the Pugs are wasting money. Posted by: bbuster on May 24, 2004 01:02 PM http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/24/opinion/24HERB.html snip... The president's reservoir of credibility on Iraq is bone dry. His approval ratings are going down. Conservative voices in opposition to his policies are growing louder. And the troops themselves are becoming increasingly disenchanted with their mission. Yet no one knows quite what to do. Americans are torn between a desire to stop the madness by pulling the plug on this tragic and hopeless adventure and the realization that the U.S., for the time being, may be the only safeguard against a catastrophic civil war. The president is scheduled to give a speech tonight to lay out his "clear strategy" for the future of Iraq. Don't hold your breath. This is the same president who deliberately exploited his nation's fear of terrorism in the aftermath of Sept. 11 to lead it into the long dark starless night of Iraq. As for the Iraqis, they've been had. We're not going to foot the bill in any real sense for the reconstruction of Iraq, any more than we've been willing to foot the bill for a reconstruction of the public school system here at home. There's a reason why Ahmad Chalabi and the Bush crowd were so simpatico for so long. They all considered themselves masters of the con. They all thought that they could fool all of the people all of the time. There's a terrible sense of dread filtering across America at the moment and it's not simply because of the continuing fear of terrorism and the fact that the nation is at war. It's more frightening than that. It grows out of the suspicion that we all may be passengers in a vehicle that has made a radically wrong turn and is barreling along a dark road, with its headlights off and with someone behind the wheel who may not know how to drive. Posted by: Pat on May 24, 2004 03:03 PMhttp://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=47516 Monday, May 24, 2004 International Give up quest for free Tibet: China tells Dalai Lama
The Dalai Lama must ‘‘truly relinquish his stand for ‘Tibetan independence,’ and do something beneficial to the progress of China and the region of Tibet”, the Chinese government said here in a white paper titled Regional ethnic autonomy in Tibet. Attacking the 68-year-old Nobel laureate for his fight for genuine autonomy in his Himalayan homeland, the white paper, the first-ever on the Tibet issue, charged that the ‘‘Dalai clique’’ has constantly attacked Tibet’s regional ethnic autonomy, in the international arena, as being ‘‘devoid of essential contents’’, and demanded the ‘‘one country, two systems formula’’. ‘‘This argument is totally untenable,’’ the Chinese government said, alleging that the Dalai Lama’s current words and deeds ‘‘runs counter not only to the reality of present-day Tibet but also to the words he once uttered in all seriousness’’. Meanwhile,The Observer said China has threatened to strip Liverpool of its twin city status with Shanghai if officials from the city met the Dalai Lama next week. A diplomatic row has broken out between Beijing and London over the Buddhist leader’s visit. However, the Dalai Lama’s programme is expected to go ahead, the paper said. He will also meet British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw and heir to the British throne Prince Charles, dates which have raised China’s ire as well, the newspaper added. The light bulb is beginning to go on for Andy. We didn't just become this. It has been gradual but we havent't been paying attention to what our government has been doing in our name or what we have been giving up for a life of ease to corporations. The light bulb does go on sooner or later I guess. Here is Andy's moment of enlightenment. Our Darkest Days Are Here
The Revolution when we won our independence would be on the list. Beating Hitler. Putting Americans on the moon. We've had a lot of great days. Our darkest days up until now have been things like presidential assassinations, the stock market crash in 1929, Pearl Harbor, and 9-11, of course. The day the world learned that American soldiers had tortured Iraqi prisoners belongs high on the list of worst things that ever happened to our country. It's a black mark that will be in the history books in a hundred languages for as long as there are history books. I hate to think of it. The image of one bad young woman with a naked man on a leash did more to damage America's reputation than all the good things we've done over the years ever helped our reputation. What were the secrets they were trying to get from captured Iraqis? What important information did that poor devil on the leash have that he wouldn't have given to anyone in exchange for a crust of bread or a sip of water? Where were your officers? If someone told you to do it, tell us who told you. If your officers were told – we should know who told them. One general said our guards were "untrained." Well, untrained at what? Being human beings? Did the man who chopped off Nicholas Berg's head do it because he was untrained? The guards who tortured prisoners are faced with a year in prison. Well, great. A year for destroying our reputation as decent people. I don't want them in prison, anyway. We shouldn't have to feed them. Take away their right to call themselves American - that's what I’d do. You aren't one of us. Get out. We don't want you. Find yourself another country or a desert island somewhere. If the order came from someone higher up, take him with you. In the history of the world, several great civilizations that seemed immortal have deteriorated and died. I don't want to seem dramatic tonight, but I've lived a long while, and for the first time in my life, I have this faint, faraway fear that it could happen to us here in America as it happened to the Greek and Roman civilizations. Too many Americans don't understand what we have here, or how to keep it. I worry for my grandchildren, my great-grandchildren. I want them to have what I've had, and I sense it slipping away. Have a nice day. tPallas Athena seems to be dominating my energies these days, along with a few other aspects in my chart. Weeks ago I concluded it would be healthy for me to comment on a political blog since I can't really discuss the tremendous problems in the world with anyone in my little world, for various reasons. While I love this board, it is not really appropriate to bring all my political rants here, so I endeavor to keep you informed (my overactive nMercury) about things I feel are extremely important and might fall thru the crack and read the wonderful comments and links all of you bring. There is so much bad news these days, and once in a while when I find something good I like to bring it here. So, indulge me please. A couple of weeks ago I discovered a young teenager, perhaps 17, who posts at DailyKos. It's difficult to believe that the comments come from such a young person, for they are wise beyond my years. I responded to this entity, for the sig line gives no indication of gender, and expressed my joy in finding not only a young poster, but a sage. Last night I made a comment about charges of anti-Semitism being applied to individuals who were actually making criticisms of actions undertaken by the State of Israel and for the State of Israel. After ranting about Justin I went to Kos and found the following post by this same enlightened individual, and learned another big piece about this wise soul. "Hostile to religion? Not here... I am a Reform Jew. Some think of Reform Judaism as psuedoJudaism, and don't think of it as a true religion. No, I don't cover my head (EVER!), yes, I eat pork, mix dairy and meat, and drive on Saturday. And yet I go to prayer services by my own free will regularly (once-twice a month). What gives? I'm borderline-hostile to tradition, but have a deep spirituality. Reform Judaism has a great social-justice aspect, and I recently met the man who will be my boss over the summer, when I'm working for Martin Frost's reelection campaign. Where? At services (Frost also goes to my synagogue). -------------------------- Peace Yup. They just keep trying to mix it all up. This poster is meeting the same thing over and over again. Hopefully the sage in him/her will prevail. Posted by: Pat on May 24, 2004 04:19 PMI don't think Kerry's plan to wait until Labor Day is shady as it's not illegal and it is being put out there now for everyone to see. The Republicans are also free to change strategies if they can think of a better one. Besides, nothing is as amoral as their redistricting schemes (unless we Dems come up with some redistricting of our own). Seriously, thought I prefer to do what's good & moral, all's fair (although maybe not legal) in political warfare and I think Dave's comment was very astute. Let the dust settle, see what the current drama is, create some real anticipation and excitement AFTER the Repug convention that brings us that much closer to election day...and hope that the plan doesn't backfire. Even if there is a somewhat successful changeover of power in Iraq on June 30th (which will be good, but we don't want it to make Bush look too good), violence will escalate around it. And the astrological aspects will be there undermining Bush's efforts both on the war and economic fronts. The best news I've heard all week is that Bush's support has dropped amoung Florida's Cubans from 100% to 56%. That is a major change as Cubans were staunchly Republican since Reagan and nothing could change their minds except the current mess we're in. U.S. Cubans, many of whom have relatives in Cuba, are driven by their anti-Castro feelings, but they also are a very strong and loyal people. And, once U.S. citizens, they seem to be among the most Patriotic...so it takes a lot for them to oppose the Republican pResident. Since I tried hard to get my Cuban friends and colleagues to budge during the 2000 election, they would not. So, to me, this is a big deal! Posted by: Sharon Katz on May 24, 2004 04:22 PMJo: I love to indulge you and love your comments and the links you provide. Where can we go to read your political rants? I for one would like to see them. Do you post at Arianna's blog? Posted by: Beverly on May 24, 2004 04:24 PMGo tell 'em whether you think Bush has "the answers" for Eye-rack: Hello Sharon Katz: Jeb Bush has introduced again a plan to remove felons from the voter roles permanently, ( in time for 2004) even if they have completed their sentence. It is causing quite a stir among the legislators there. It's never ending as far as their scheming goes. It's the 3 R's of the Republican Party: recount, recall, and redistrict. That's the only way they can win. Posted by: Beverly on May 24, 2004 04:30 PMBeverly, I like Kos -- it's a politics/elections blog... demo/progressive/independents and probably a few libertarians and republicans... its's fairly troll free, as the posters can rate the posts and cause them to 'go away' --- somewhat like Sally's magic eraser... anyone can register but you have to wait 72 hrs. I think before you can post. You can read anytime. Anyway I like the civility I find there and the good information. They're working very hard to elect more demos and progressives to Congress and they give poll results and info on the states individually which I find to be important info. According to their stats we have more than a good chance of controlling the Senate, and if it weren't for the Repug's illegal gerrymandering of Texas, we would have a chance with the House. Kos is short for Marcos, who is a veteran. The front page articles are inhouse by several excellent writers... designed to provoke conversation. Check it out. [I apologize for the flagrant plug of another board while a guest here. Please forgive me Sally!] I enjoy your comments and links, Beverly. Peace Posted by: Jo on May 24, 2004 04:37 PMShylurker, Cass, buzzflash is now linking to this under the heading "They're even lying about the weather" (or some such): Looks like the networks aren't interested in carrying the speech tonight....just FAUX and cable. http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5050891/ Posted by: Pat on May 24, 2004 05:10 PMSHRUB'S HAND
I find that I DO NOT know enough on the subject to If any of you know a Palmist, please print the THANKS, Posted by: corleonis on May 24, 2004 05:12 PMOh, that is too cool, Pat! Just FOX/666 and cable. Love it! Posted by: shylurker on May 24, 2004 05:31 PM
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/printer_052304H.shtml Posted by: wv on May 24, 2004 05:31 PMI have a question about Andy's "lightbulb" lighting up (post upthread from Pat.) First off, though, I'd like to address that sinking feeling which is slowly trickling into the American consciousness that our country could fall like the Roman Empire. You know, hundreds of thousands of us protested this war all over the world before it started. We were dismissed, ridiculed and slurred. Perhaps the time might be upon us where it would be a good idea to LISTEN to the people that are paying attention. Just a thought. What I wanted to ask about, though, was this sentiment: *** Has it become conventional wisdom yet that Americans killed Nick Berg? It doesn't take much to raise the suspicion. Take a look at the still shot from the video and it's obvious that the terrorist being blamed has two legs instead of one, everyone is wearing masks and gloves because they're probably all white, they're all fat, and they're standing at parade rest. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out these guys are not Iraqi's. Plus the decor exactly matches Abu~Ghraib prison and the tracking numbers jump around. What you may not know, though, is that according to Kodak all video cameras have a "digital watermark." Basically, the people who make video cameras can analyze footage and tell what camera it was recorded with. It tells you uniquely what camera it was recorded with. It tells you THE camera. According to Bartcop, the Berg video is being cross~referenced with the Abu~Ghraib torture videos to see if any of the cameras match up. I humbly submit that when conventional wisdom accepts that American soldiers are beheading American civilians, all hell is going to break loose. "He was dead before we started" isn't going to cut it, either(!) Maybe this will get the American public off it's collective a** and in the faces of the people in power. Perhaps this would be a good thing to ask the pResident about during one of his upcoming press conferences. Oh, and Andy shouldn't blame the trailer trash for this. Much as I appreciate, "You aren't one of us. Get out. We don't want you. Find yourself another country or a desert island somewhere." We need to hold the soldiers responsible but get real. I say life in prison for the man at the top with the initials GWB, then we work our way down from there. Dave, I think everyone here understands where the great Jewish sentiment to support Israel comes from. It may be exaggerated, it may be a muddy emotional mix of church (or synagogue) and state, and it may seem to many to be pro-war and Hawish, but when the unthinkable happened to European Jewry during the Holocaust, it caused fellow Jews to become vigilent and careful, perhaps to a flaw at times. You know the old adage, "better to be safe than sorry." I disagree with much of what Sharon has done in the name of security and nationalism, such as building settlements in land that should be returned to the Palestinians, yet he has to protect his people. After the Clinton peace plan was rejected by the Palestinians at the end of '99, and then Sharon wrongly (but with permission) visited the Dome of the Rock/Temple Mount, the Intifada began anew with the murder of many Israeli civilians. The U.S. asked Israel to take no military action and it did not for a long while. What you are seeing now is a military offensive that Israel began in approx. 2002 against Hamas and its sister organization whose actions were obviously being sanctioned and supported by Palestianian leadership and populace. Israel is no angel, but none of the 3 wars against Israel since its inception were, to my knowledge, provoked by Israel. They were begun by countries that wanted to destroy Israel. The U.S. should not have gone to war against Iraq, but we did not start the larger war against us, the Jihad. I don't know how long the infamous Neocon plan to take over the Mideast has been in place, but it wouldn't have had a prayer of drivingi us into Iraq if there wasn't already a war in place against us, a Jihad, which began in the mid-80s with bombings of many U.S. embassies in the Mideast and culminated with 911. Yes, Bush's invasion of Iraq and our torture of prisoners has made the situation much worse for us in the Arab world but it was already bad. Much of the hatred stems from nothing that we've done except for the fact that we live in a way that Muslim fundamentalists deem immoral and feel needs to be eradicated. I often see only one side put forth on this board and, to me, it is reflective of the polarization in the country and the world. For us not to be polarized, a situation has to be seen in depth and in context. I agree with much of what is said on this board but felt I needed to put forth an expanded point of view. I subscribe to the Indian saying that one does not know a man until he walks a mile in his shoes. Please feel free to disagree or to add to this picture if you feel it is incomplete. Peace, WHAT?!?!? The networks aren't covering shrub's speech? But I have the vodka ready! I was going to transcribe it as it was happening for this website! I have a collection of rubber balls to throw at the TV screen! Shoot, there goes my evening's entertainment... Beverly...well at least the Dems are exercising -)some oversight of the matter! :-) :-) :-) Democrats to 'verify' purse of voter polls By Robert Perez | Sentinel Staff Writer Florida has begun another purge of felons from its voter rolls, and state Democratic leaders want no glitches that could stop law-abiding citizens from voting. So they're going to double-check the state's work. The Florida Democratic Party on Friday asked for all public records relating to how the state Division of Elections developed its list of nearly 50,000 "potential felons," which was transmitted to the state's 67 election supervisors last week. "We want to have public records available so we can verify the list," said Scott Maddox, Florida Democratic Party chairman. "It's the old 'trust but verify.' After 2000, there's not much trust, so all that's left is to verify." more: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/elections/orl-locfelon22052204may2...
Sharon K. Hi and thanks. The link didn't work (expired) but found another one with key words on google. Jeb must be very, very afraid for his brother, and rightfully so. I don't particularly trust the Democrats to be tough and demand accuracy. Isn't Mercury (the ballot) retrograde again on Nov. 2, 2004? Posted by: Beverly on May 24, 2004 08:07 PMDommael, I was stunned to learn that the news media don't plan to provide live coverage of the speech. If my hunch is right, I think it's because shrub's face is all messed up from his recent "spill" rather than because they are not falling all over themselves to cover just another campaign speech. Or is it because they'd be preempting their corporate-sponsored tv shows to cover little Caesar. It's the last week of May sweeps after all. Posted by: Susan on May 24, 2004 08:10 PMDo any of you posters here understand how the Venus Retrograde would work for me if I have Venus in Gemini in my 6th house of work/service if I am looking for a job? I have Gemini on the cusp on both 5th and 6th house. The retrogade Venus is in Gemini -- correct? I also have Uranus there but a little farther along than my Venus. I didn't know I was going to ask you this so I didn't bring the degrees with me. Can anyone help? Posted by: Beverly on May 24, 2004 08:12 PMSharon your post above has stimulated my thoughts this morning. They are not clear to me yet, still working their way to the light of day. I have no answers, no fixed views even, just some food for reflection. First off I must say that I have been priviledged in my life to count many Jews among my friends. One of my best friend's here teaches Hebrew in his spare time, has been to Israel on several occasions, and still has family there. I know the situation there now is a source of great inner torment as he has a deep emotional connection to Israel and yet he is one of the most peaceful loving human beings I know. We have had many great philosophical conversations about religion and I have learned a great deal about Judaism through him. But there is a limit to where we can go in discussing the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. It's just too difficult. I read a pretty profound essay awhile back that traced the roots of the problem of terrorism to two fateful events after WWII. I'm sorry I don't have the url and don't even remember the author's name. It appeared on counterpunch in the summer of 2002 and the author was a retired diplomat I think, someone who had spent a career in the Middle-East. He traced the roots of the problem of terrorism to: 1)FDR's deal with the Saudi King which gave US support to that dictatorship in exchange for oil--a deal which set the precedent of supporting brutal dictatorships throughout the Middle-East; and 2) the creation of the state of Israel. On the one hand I certainly understand and appreciate the desire for a Jewish homeland after the holocaust and two millennia of oppression. On the other hand I recognize that the state of Israel was literally bombed into existence through an act of terrorism and great injustice was done to the Palestinians. (Has anyone done an astrological analysis for the state of Israel?) Is it ever going to be possible to untie this knot of injustice and do justice to both peoples? Sometimes I wonder if the state of Israel does have a right to exist. I know its hopelessly naive but sometimes it seems like the obvious solution would be a secular state in which both peoples, both faiths, were accorded equal respect and status--something like what at least is the ideal here in the USA. But then I pause I remember that the USA was founded on acts of violence and terrorism perpetrated against the people who were already here. And I am constantly reminded that I live in a state (Hawaii) which at one time was an independent sovereign nation and was illegally overthrown by American business interests. Most Americans probably think the Hawaiian people are just happy and smiling and proud to be Americans. That might be true for some, but I can tell you that there are many who feel like an oppressed people. And today the military is in the process of taking 23,000 more acres of sacred land on the slopes of Mauna Kea to expand their military practice area. As part of the "war on terrorism" they want to bring a Stryker force here. The fragile land will be torn up by the behemoth Stryker vehicles and littered for generations with unexploded ordinance. So I am keenly aware that perhaps the state of Hawaii as a state within the USA has no right to exist. But at least the Hawaiian people have more rights here than the Palestinians have in Israel. Perhaps that is a naive haole sentiment, but I don't think the Hawaiians are treated here the way Palestinians are in Israel. Of course I know that while there is a sovereignty movement (or movements) here, there is no intifada. So I don't speak as someone who has answers or even firm convictions, but perhaps all of us need to live each day as a day of atonement I think Lennon had it right: Very profound thoughts, everyone. I am fortunate to have found this website and that such insightful souls post here. Beverly, I don't know how the Venus Retrograde will affect your job search, but I work as a resume writer and might be able to assist in that area if it would help. Please feel free to shoot me an email if you are interested (that goes for anyone else looking for a job in Bu$h's 'murica, too!) Chalaby's Petra Bank failed in 1989....when he escaped Jordan in the trunk of the car. He was convicted & sentenced to 22 years in 1992, in Jordan.
I heard Andy's commentary last night and thought it right on. The fact that Kerry is doing all these shenanigans re money, proves he could be astute, but what we need is a president who is about issues, not money. With a jerk in the white house who has messed the country up so bad, Kerry, as the Dem nominee, shouldn't need a farthing to beat him, but he thinks he does? This totally confuses me. Or maybe it does not, how many years of the same blunders by the democrats does one need to live through to find that, although they may not be as evil as the repugs, they are clueless and deaf dumb and seemingly blind. The blaming of Ralph for 2000, well Ralph didn't run in 2002, and they still lost everything, even after Bush did his best to tell America to go to hell. But Kerry can screw up all he wants, because Ralph is here. And as Bush's numbers drop, and Kerry's don't rise, and Kerry tries to reap karma with money instead of heart, it looks like, IF God still cares about this country, Ralph is going to be the surprise winner of the election and send all these bureaucratic PIGS back to the drawing board to atleast learn to tie their shoes and learn how to walk again. It makes me all so ill. Joanna O, I love your posts. Your spiritual discernment is so keen, it's a beautiful thing. Posted by: Roxanne on May 24, 2004 09:00 PMBeverly, http://www.khaldea.com/planets/pi_3.shtml Posted by: Jo on May 24, 2004 09:01 PMBeverly, ---------- To all, Namaste Posted by: Jo on May 24, 2004 09:06 PMThe prison tortures again: So. These were largely ordinary civilians (not terrorists), arrested (kidnapped) and subjected to an attempt to turn them into informants via psych-torture,(not being "interrogated" that wasn't the point). That's the military, our goverment in action who started it, not, as they are saying, our "recycled hillbillies" run amok. Website mentioned above - the dunce report- I checked and it says shrub is going to give a clear OMG, Elizabeth! Thanks for those quotes. Timothy, thank you for your thoughtful email and for responding to me. I'm thinking that the situation isn't that simple. Mankind has been going through a warlike phase from which we have yet to emerge. Israel is no exception. (What I say hereon is from memory and may be somewhat erroneous.) At the same time, Israelis have passed down the tradition that says that their patriarchs communicated directly with G-d and were given the 10 Commandments + other laws upon which much of civilization is built, as well as a tract of land. Is this a story? Many people in the world accept the revelations from the Creator to Israel as historical. After being freed from Egypt and 40 years in the desert, the actual taking of the land was violent. Admittedly, these were violent times. The Israelis built a Temple as a place to house G-d's presence two separate times and both times it was destroyed. But between the two Temple periods, a united kingdom was formed under Solomon, etc. With the fall of the 2nd Temple, the Israelis were evicted from the land. Fast forward. When Mark Twain visited Palestine in the 19th C., he reported that there was nothing there. It was practically uninhabited. I'm unclear on my history but let's fast forward again to the British Empire. They were in charge. They allowed that the Jews would have a homeland after the attempt at ethnic cleansing, and they partitioned the area in half. Apparently the Arabs rejected their half as they wanted all or nothing. Yes, this created a refugee situation for some of the Arab population living there at the time. Some left. Some remained there to live peaceably with the Jews. Many were absorbed by another country (I forget if it was Jordan or Lebanon) and were put into refugee camps, for reasons unbeknowst to me. So they wanted to come back, not to the land the Brits apartioned to them but to Israel. It is understandable that they would want the area in which they had lived but they could have had half of the entire territory instead of leaving previously, on the word of the remaining Arabs who promised they would win all of it over from Israel. Does Israel deserve a state? Of course. Where should the state be put? Well, I'm told there were 3 choices and the Zionists picked this one, I imagine due to the long biblical, historical connections. Was there much going on in that area before Israel settled it, made it flourish, and built one of the most progressive societies on earth, particularly in the Mideast, technologically, scientifically, agriculturally? No. Do the Palestinians deserve a homeland? Of course. Do the Israelis treat them badly. Yes. What stops Israelis from treating them better? Terrorism for one. Terrorism has its justifiable causes, just as criminals have their bad childhoods. I believe that's called the abuse excuse and I find it a little hard to believe that Israel is given as its cause. Maybe from one angle that is true, but surely there are other, better, more productive choices. That said, I do not live there. I have not experienced the situation from either side. I am not in their shoes. And I am Jewish so I have my bias, but I am trying to be fair. Except that I am beginning to realize that the Israeli side of the story is rarely told these days and there always are two sides. (In fact, I should be brushing up on the history of the area so I can be more accurate or at least as accurate as history allows.) And yes, John Lennon had it right. What we have in that area of the world are two Semetic peoples, very similar, very shrewd, with similar mentalities and cultures. However, my impression is that the Arabs have done their best to undermine the Jews and, when one thinks about it, it is such a small piece of land and Israel has done so much to cause it to thrive. Not to mention the fact that Israel has done much good for many Arabs, but that is not so publicized. With so much land surrounding Israel, I often wonder why some of it can't be donated by each country in that area. No one ever suggests that. Thanks for listening. When you two are finished working out the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, do you think you could help work on the Kerry/Nader schism? Seriously, two of the best perspectives I've read on the Net. Thanks. Chalaby's Petra Bank failed in 1989....when he escaped Jordan in the trunk of the car. He was convicted & sentenced to 22 years in 1992, in Jordan.
Thank you, WV for your kind comments on my question about Bush and reincarnation. I agree with you that the Nazi era is just too recent for these charmers to have gone through the recycling bin. So it would have to be earlier than that. That's interesting that you're considering Philip of Macedonia. Thanks for the suggestions for the books. I'll try to get them asap. I also agree with you about the war protesters from the '60's. There was a lot of anger in those days, too. I've read that if people are "thrown" out of their bodies, as in a bombing, you end up with a group of extremely angry souls. And that would explain the riots & demonstrations. I have read that after leaving the body, we typically "rest" for approximately 100 years. (maybe that's too long) Also, Yogananda said that if we are particularly drawn to a certain culture, like the Japanese, or if we feel an unusual closeness with some culture, then we have most probably lived there. He also said that we can have an instant affinity with someone, or an inexplicable hatred. This would be some past-life reason. The answers are within ourselves. As for myself, I was born in Sweden. I sometimes have these visions of living in extreme cold, almost arctic conditions. I also seem to have memories of real hardship, of working until I dropped, just struggling to survive. I'm very drawn to the Viking time. I want to know everything about them; who did they worship and what was their everyday life like. In contrast, I have a teenage son who seems very angry and quiet a lot of the time. He collects books on the Nazi holocaust. He looks at the photos, and you can see real resentment; a lot of thinking is going on under the surface. There seem to be many unresolved issues (?). On the other hand, I have another teenager who is cheerful, plays classical guitar and listens to Baroque music around the clock. He says he feels a special closeness with that era. I found him an old banged-up settee from England from the 1700's, and he treasures it. It really lends a lot of credibility to the theory of reincarnation. Posted by: CLiss on May 26, 2004 12:07 AMHey everybody, Tonight I went out and had drinks with a member of the Hussein family. This woman is a friend of my sister and claims to have deep and longstading ties to the leaders of the Ottoman Empire, the Hussein clan, and her family has strong business ties with the Bush family. I believe her. For those of you who are fans of the show "Will and Grace" this woman had alot in common with Karen Walker. I bonded with her this evening and I would just like to say that I am now a believer in some theory of reincarnation. Tendencies that are in a family stay in that family for many generations. And I pity this woman. She is in many ways a victim of her environment, and she has turned out pretty well (in my opinion) given her circumstances. Apparently, her father sells advanced weaponry to third world countries and also sells WMD's on the black market. She uses 5 different identities when she is in the United States because using her real last name would get her arrested. Having seen what I witnessed tonight, I am a firm believer that this kind of misbehavior gets passed down through the generations. I can see why it would be difficult to believe this if you have not met someone who had to deal with these issues as part of their family circumstances, but I gained a new understanding of our global situation tonight. Just wanted to share this. Posted by: Dave on May 29, 2004 08:47 AMAs to the theory that one generally rests 100 yrs. between incarnations, I may be the exception to that rule. I grew up poor in the deep south. I am now living in the Norteast and have a very comfortable life and great family. A few years ago I underwent past life regression and uncovered a life in Nazi Germany. Of all the things I expected to uncover, this was the furtherest thing expected. It was quite graffic and painful to 'remember'. Details of arrest and interment in a concentration camp and my eventual death were vivid. In this life I studied the German language and culture and never understood why as its not part of my ethnic background. However, I never had an interest in the events surrounding the Nazis and Holocaust other than general information gathered in history classes. The lady conducting my regression suggested that it was too painful for me to be drawn to that part of my 'history'. As an aside, one of my best friends in this life is plagued with constant sore throats. As it turned out, I have memories of our friendship at that time and her being hanged as punnishment in the camp. Posted by: on May 29, 2004 09:57 PMDear Anonymous: I'm sorry about your past life. That must have been hard to deal with, once you found out. That's so sad about your friend, too. I hope she can work it out so her throat stops hurting. I would like to do a past-life regression, but I'm also nervous about what I will find out. What if I find out I was someone I don't like? I've heard that when you bypass the subconscious to get to the superconscious mind (where all this information is stored), it's like a severe blow to the subconscious mind. So I'm not sure if I dare...... 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