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Cognitive Distortion
Despite an ongoing string of failures in Iraq, a deteriorating situation in Afghanistan, several percolating scandals, and a slew of highly discrediting books, the Bush administration has managed lately, against all expectation, to improve its poll numbers and edge past Senator Kerry's slim lead of last month. While Democrats are panicking, pundits are scrambling to explain away the unlikely bump. In a world of instant news, pervasive attention deficit, and vanishing short-term memory, every shift in the ubiquitous presidential election polls creates a mini-tsunami. TV journalists wonder aloud if it is the intensified war effort and the consequent tendency to rally 'round the Chief that has contributed to Bush's unexpected fortune. Or perhaps, somehow, Kerry is deficient and needs to take more risks or maybe fewer risks, be more critical or maybe more positive, attack more, or whatever. Bush's multimillion-dollar ad blitz also gets stirred into this pot of explanations. Possibly most telling are the statistics about those who continue to believe a connection between al Qaida and Saddam and who think that we have already found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, despite mountains of evidence to the contrary. Not surprisingly, these souls, deluded by Bush's propaganda machine, are the ones most likely to support the president and his war policies. That their numbers continue to be so large is a testament to the power of the Pinocchio bully pulpit, as well as cognitive dissonance on a massive scale. Cognitive dissonance is a psychological phenomenon that describes the discomfort that comes when new information contradicts what is already known or believed. If a person is committed to the prior knowledge, he or she will resist assimilating the new information. Thus, if you are committed to believing that Bush is a great leader and divinely inspired, you will resist the facts presented that show he has deceived you or failed in any way. If you believe that the US could not go to war except for the most honorable of reasons, you will resist accepting that there were no WMD's or that Saddam had nothing to do with al Qaida or 9/11. The harsh, but true, information is too threatening to the core beliefs that the president is honorable and that the country will go to war only for the noblest of reasons. Perhaps it would take failure on a massive scale to shake some of these people out of their intellectual insulation. It is hard to say. But what is clear is that Bush is currently enjoying a brief hiatus before a couple of real tsunamis hit him between the eyes. As I previously predicted in a recent article and on my Timeline, the current Jupiter station is generally very beneficial to Bush and is helping to inflate his polls and bring some optimistic economic numbers. It will also likely lead him to some reckless and over-forceful military activity that may seem initially successful for the duration of the transit. Since late March, Jupiter has been conjunct Bush’s progressed Sun/natal Mars, inflating an already audacious and aggressive combination. Jupiter’s influence will remain strong, and hence protective, through May 21, 2004. At present, the planet Mercury, the coordinator, communicator and transporter, is still retrograde but moving towards its stationary position. The seige at Fallujah and the standoff in Najaf are manifestations of this planet’s near immobility. Military action is postponed again and again, then we hear of brief and intense battles or explosions followed by more waiting. This feeling of stuckness will start to shift after May 1, when Mercury turns direct, and increasingly after May 6 when Jupiter also turns direct. But in the meantime, there will continue to be short, sharp, and deadly encounters. The Mercury station is exactly semisquare Uranus for several days (4/25 through 5/1) suggesting sudden, powerful, and upsetting incidents, as well as increasing tension. In addition to the impact of the Mercury station, the Jupiter station is also quite significant right now. Besides its conjunction to Bush’s Mars/progressed Sun combination, casting him as the great War Chieftain during April and most of May, it is exactly square to the US Uranus through May 8. This gives a general feeling of the US taking precipitous action and being less likely to consider world opinion. With Pluto moving closer to its opposition to US Mars, this sets up early May as a time when significant and brutal battles are likely to unfold. In fact, the Pluto transit opposite US Mars suggests fierce encounters continuing through most of May. Jupiter’s position on Bush’s Mars suggests some success and some very bold action through May 21. Neptune, the planet of delusion, deceit, and self-deception, continues to permeate every aspect of the Bush administration throughout 2004. Currently, the Neptune station is square the Inaugural Ascendant, bringing us a daily menu of lies and distortions of extraordinary magnitude, with the cognitive dissonance kicking in to keep the right-wing partisans from questioning the veracity of their born-again leader. He is one of them, after all. But the Bush cabal’s pervasive dishonesty and disconnect from reality may soon be significantly challenged. The first tsunami will come crashing onto Pinocchio Bush’s shore in June 2004. As it descends upon the members of the administration, it will be impossible for them to hide from the very apparent policy failures that will be littering the landscape. It seems quite likely that the deteriorating situation in Iraq will be one of the key issues plaguing the White House, with little support from allies forthcoming. It may well be that the UN refuses Bush’s offer of minimal power in exchange for a bailout. In addition, from June 8 through June 10, the G8 Summit will meet, likely refusing Bush the support he will so desperately need and humiliating him in front of the world. Some of the many percolating scandals may also coalesce around this time. The Plame affair, the Cheney energy commission, the report of the 9/11 Commission are but a few of the many potential sources of great discomfort for the administration. The significant planetary configurations in June are a string of Saturn transits – conjunct Bush’s Sun, the US Sun, square US Saturn, and conjunct the Inaugural South Node – that cover the entire month. These are accompanied by Neptune moving to the exact square to Inaugural Ascendant and Pluto conjunct Bush’s South Node. Taken together, this combination implies extraordinary burdens and difficulties (Saturn) resulting from reckless, poorly thought-out policies (Pluto/South Node), with no wiggle room for any spin (Neptune derailed by Saturn). Like a bug caught in a spider’s web, the administration will continue to flail about in July and early August, as Saturn continues to nail the King of Fantasyland to the cross of reality while Neptune continues to focus on his inconsistencies, deluded pipedreams, and deceit. Saturn will square Bush’s Moon, Chiron, Jupiter, and Washington, DC location chart Midheaven (19Aries48). Neptune will quincunx his Sun and the US Sun. Then the second tsunami will hit, in September 2004, with virtually no time for Bush to recover from the first. Unfortunately, the Saturn transit that will square Bush’s Midheaven and cross the US Mercury beginning in September and continuing through May 2005, is likely to adversely impact the US economy as well as strike Bush’s presidency a second mortal blow. Mercury, the planet of trade and manufacturing, is in the 8th house of finance, investment, and currency in the US chart. It also rules the 7th house of relationships with allies and enemies. At least some of these areas are likely to contract sharply or be burdened in some way over the nine-month course of this transit. In September, the difficulties will be directly tied to Bush since Saturn will square his Midheaven – the symbol of career and reputation – and conjunct the Inaugural chart IC at the same time. Thus, the Boy Emperor is in for a wild ride in the coming months. There is no question that he has created a disastrous mess in Iraq with no simple or painless solution forthcoming. He has bankrupted the US Treasury while enriching his friends in the military and energy industries. He has rolled back decades of progressive environmental policies and has inspired fierce hatred for the US throughout the Arab world, which clearly is not beneficial to our much-discussed national security. The only question that remains is whether enough Americans will be roused from their propagandized stupor to vote this radical right-wing administration out of office in November. How much failure will it take before the denial inherent in cognitive dissonance shatters and America realizes the depth of ineptitude and malfeasance that are currently rampant in the Oval Office? We will soon find out as compelling events in June and September move us into elections in November.
Nancy Waterman on Apr 28 | Link
Comments
Thank you for another great article. Are you able to get any sense of whether it's a single event that will adversely impact our economy or if it's more of a gradual loss of confidence due to the problems Bush & Co. will be encountering over the summer? Posted by: Teresa on April 28, 2004 06:49 PMPoints to ponder:There has been all these much ado Another pipe dream for shrub,cheny,rummy and cronies is that peace is coming to Iraq after June To reply skylurker, about Dean walking off-obviously the question had to do with israel or sharon.That's where all the american politicans Thanks so much for letting me know, Raj. This overwhelmingly one-sided approach is leading to uncontrollable mayhem and hideous suffering all over the planet. Just another brilliant article, Nancy. What knowledge! What talent! Come on tsunamis! Posted by: shylurker on April 28, 2004 07:33 PMPS to all: The "NO" votes on the CNN poll have slipped from 70 to 69 percent. Go vote (Should the US be able to detain its own citizens suspected of terrorism without giving them access to counsel). Posted by: shylurker on April 28, 2004 07:37 PMTeresa - It is hard to say what will come in September. It could just be a gloomy feel to everything, not a big event. Maybe tsunami was a little strong. :) It could be a deflation in housing prices since the 8th house (and the 4th) have to do with real estate. It could be a dramatic deflation of our currency and a rise in interest rates that slowdown the weak recovery. It could be a huge spike in oil prices leading to inflation. There are many possiblities. But the bottom line is a sense of gloom and a need for belt tightening that impacts some aspect of the economy and perhaps employment, and may relate to problems with a foreign country (oil issues with OPEC or a trade war with Europe?). Posted by: Nancy on April 28, 2004 08:19 PMExcellent writing, Nancy. For those who have a mind toward these sorts of things~ Beltane, a cross-quarter fire festival falls on the evening and night of April 30 and May 1st, but really, the whole month of May is sacred and joyous. In these troubled times, may we all remember to stay centered and balanced as events unfold around us in the coming month. *Beltane is sacred to the Celtic fire god *Bel, to the Goddess as Flower Maiden, and to the Horned God. It's a really active time for male and female spiritual energies to interact and will be an intensely creative time for us all. Perhaps this recurring spiral of human activity is what leads to the first tsunami of consciousness piercing the Bu$h cabal reality bubble and causing some ripples of our own to be heard within the White House. Namaste~ ~D Posted by: Dommael on April 28, 2004 08:41 PMResiding in a town where real tsunamis have come I cannot quite say "come on tsunamis" but I do indeed share the sentiment! Another brilliant essay, Nancy. This "cognitive dissonance" theme hits the nail right on the head. I've been thinking about this for several years now and often feel a sense of despair about the prospects of the American people waking up to the terrible truth. This issue is precisely why Socrates thought "the unexamined life is not worth living." He compared society to a sleeping steed in danger of falling into injustice unless awoken by some "gadfly." I don't know if we have a gadfly powerful enough to awaken this somnolent society. I don't think the hard core "born-agains" will ever wake up, the cognitive dissonance being way too powerful since their eternal reward seems dependent upon remaining asleep. But will the majority of those good Americans, who are not fundamentalists but who do believe our country would only go to war for the noblest causes, be able to wake up and recognize this time that there really is no noble cause? In the late fall of 2001 as the "war on terrorism" got underway, I got into a heated email debate with some flag waving members of my extended family. A long respected uncle, and no fundamentalist by any means, first set me off with an email that said something like "Isn't it good that at least we now have a President who doesn't appear to have a dark side?" I don't know what he thinks now, but if he can't see the dark side yet then there isn't much hope. Posted by: Timothy on April 28, 2004 09:14 PMNancy, thank you for another exemplary article. I've been returning to this website for your commentary ever since I read your prediction late last year that John Kerry would win the Democratic nomination, even though at the time he was bottoming out in the polls. It's also helped me put this month (and May) in perspective, as Bush manages to keep his poll numbers from plummeting. It will be very interesting to watch events unfold over June and again in September for him. No one is exempt from the lessons of Saturn, not even (or especially) those who believe themselves to be above the law. Posted by: gbs on April 28, 2004 09:43 PMNancy, Pat, Anyway, I apologize for not commenting in my post that I appreciated your post, just didn't care for the message. Peace Posted by: Jo on April 28, 2004 09:52 PMIt's getting rough out there... http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/9298BD92-7121-4C1A-AB3D-882ED6DE3E8E.htm Posted by: wv on April 28, 2004 10:09 PMAs always Nancy, thanks for sharing your wonderful writing with the rest of us. Working for Change website has link for sending email to stepdown the attacks on Fallujah and Najaf Namaste Posted by: Jo on April 29, 2004 12:23 AMI scanned the Palywan Kenobi articles (they are in 2 halves) on www.palden.co.uk and all I can say is he is brilliant. I feel intuitively that he has his finger on the pulse of history and mankind's evolution. I am going to search on him to see if he's written anything recently. While on the subject of brilliant, we have our own savants here, especially in the personages of Nancy, Sally, Morgana & Isabelle. Thank you, Nancy, for this article. The truth SHALL overcome... Namaste, We were hoping for a text of encounter tomorrow a.m. between the Duo and 9/11 Commission. Crisis Papers has provided one... or at least a satire... http://crisispapers.org/essays/911-testimony.htm Posted by: Jo on April 29, 2004 12:35 AMWell, I can tell you that some folks are awakening to what is going on out there. My mother, now in her mid-80s (and no fair guessing how old that makes me! ancient!) ran the county Republican Headquarters back in the 50s-70s. Now she is terribly fearful of what these people are doing and just last weekend told me that she would never again vote GOP until these fools were gone! This is someone who only watches network news and reads the local newspaper, so it's not just the media telling people what to think, but indeed, as Nancy says, it's the cognitive dissonance that must be overcome. Have faith - if we can make it through May without descending into madness and fury, we will see the wheel of karma smoosh these madmen into the mud they've stirred up! Posted by: Baraka on April 29, 2004 01:38 AMwv, any thoughts as to whether they actually have $15mil available or whether it is all bluff and bull? If they do have access to that amount of money, what is the source I wonder? Bathists, Alquaida, or other? Posted by: Jeanie on April 29, 2004 01:55 AMhttp://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/04/28/opinion/polls/main614605.shtml Believe it or not, folks, it appears the public is starting to catch on! Posted by: shylurker on April 29, 2004 01:55 AMJeanie I have no idea where the money is coming from - Note they are only asking for 'heads'. Scary! Excuse me. The article posted by Jeanie that was located at www.palden.co.uk is not by Paldywan Kanobi but Palden Jenkins. (But I'm sure Paldywan is also a cool guy.) Sharon K Posted by: Sharon Katz on April 29, 2004 02:21 AMSharon, It's the same person, Palden Jenkins is his real name, he uses the other one as an alternate. Pat's suggestion to read Carlos Castaneda's "Petty Tyrants" from "Fire Within" started me googling for information on the subject. Lo and Behold! Look what I found...! http://wampum.wabanaki.net/archives/000650.html December 23, 2003 The vengeance of petty "snowbird" tyrants... The story is troubling on many levels. The boy, just 14 when the arson crime occurred, was ready to plead guilty in state court. He is now one of only two juveniles in all of New England serving time in federal prison, housed in a facility where most of his peers are mentally ill or developmentally challenged. While arson is a serious crime, this instance was no different from hundreds of others which occur in Maine and around the country every year. In fact, at the same time the youth was attempting to plea bargain, a resident of a neighboring town was on trial for burning his restaurant down. What is particularly disconcerting about these events is that while the "powers that be" deemed the case to be of the most serious import, none of the events were even covered in the local press. A search of both the Portland Press Herald and Boston Globe archives didn't even turn up a mention of the fire at the boatyard, let alone the conviction of the boy or his nineteen year-old accomplice (ironically charged in state court.) How is it that the younger boy is such a threat to society that he joined only a few hundred other juveniles incarcerated in federal prisons, yet the crime itself wasn't even deemed "news" by the local press. I live only thirty minutes from Kennebunkport (home of my ancestral tribal village) and I never heard of the boatyard fire until I read it in the Times. It's been speculated that G.W. Bush invaded Iraq in part because of Hussein's purported assassination attempt on his father. It's certainly clear he's not the only one in the family willing to use the resources at his disposal for petty vengeance." --------------------- Shylurker, thanks for the post on CBS poll... some of the cognitive dissonance Nancy is speaking of is wearing off... Namaste Posted by: Jo on April 29, 2004 03:18 AMOne last one... NARAL Pro-Choice Movement seen me an email with the following news: "But even George Bush can't ignore it when 1.15 million pro-choice Americans walk past his front yard. Yesterday, he had his Justice Department withdraw its outrageous demand that thousands of women who'd had abortions turn over their private medical records for John Ashcroft's perusal. Everyone who marched, or sent a message to the marchers, or contributed to help make it happen should feel enormously proud. You helped stop Bush and Ashcroft!" Peace A CNN poll just in on AronBrown ( By Judy Wodruff) A CNN poll just in on AronBrown ( By Judy Wodruff) Sorry double post... Can someone refresh my memory about the maid at one of their households who got killed when a vacant, parked car just happened to move toward and roll over her as she was leaving work? Posted by: shylurker on April 29, 2004 04:07 AMCan someone refresh my memory about the maid at one of their households who got killed when a vacant, parked car just happened to move toward and roll over her as she was leaving work? Posted by: shylurker on April 29, 2004 04:07 AMSeems there's an echo on this board. How'd we do that? Posted by: shylurker on April 29, 2004 04:21 AMOutstanding article!!!!!! My favorite understatement: "This gives a general feeling of the US taking precipitous action and being less likely to consider world opinion." How much 'less likely' can we be. The bump in the Bush poll numbers is a bump in the parallel universe of corporate media polls (just like his election was in the parallel universe of Florida election crimes). Zogby has consistently shown Bush losing to Kerry despite $50 million in Bush TV trash over a few weeks. I say, 'congratulations America.' It's April and Bush is campaigning like he's about to lose in November. He is desperate. If the Jupiter station helped Bush (by staving off the inevitable), I can only imagine what Pluto conjunct his South NoDe and his Saturn Return will do. He's in for a very rough ride and the whole world gets to participate. The ultimate revelation, if I'm allowed to use that word, is contained in the pictures at this site. We have been denied the real truth of war in Iraq. Now that it's available here, we can see the Hell we imagined we were creating is very real indeed for everyone involved. Everyone involved has my deepest sympathies and prayers. [PICTURES THEY DON'T WANT US TO SEE:] http://home.wi.rr.com/davef/iraq.htm
Raj, Especially when he is trying to get a better man than Bush elected, but not a better man than he is. This man is a class act. Nancy, You mention the two stations we have operating at the moment and I wonder if you have a few minutes to give this student some clarity on beginnings and endings of stations. I don't think I'm reading that correctly... and I have a particular interest in stations as several members of my family have charts with planets at station and the same transiting planet at station has brought significant events into their lives. You and Sally and Isabelle are providing a perspective of the transits that we all need in these extremely difficult times. Kudos to all. Namaste B Buster, Raj forgot to mention at the very beginning of the interview it mentions Dean was about to speak at the Washington march and towards the end he did say he had to go. Amy asked another question directly after he said that. Kerry will be coming to Westminster college in Fulton to speak tomorrow. The campaign director when contacted by our Dean group asking if there was anything in particular they should help with or know, she told us that Kerry wanted the speech to be somber and serious. No protesting please, no large anti bush signs. I can understand wanting to best Cheney, but trying to control a group of fired up Democrats who are keen on kicking bush out ........ Maybe it's Mercury and lines of communication? Posted by: Cass on April 29, 2004 03:05 PMLooks like trouble for groups trying to get permits to protest the Repub convention in New York City!
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/29/opinion/29DOWD.html Posted by: wv on April 29, 2004 04:08 PMCass, So, it could be that Kerry will use this opportunity to talk about Iraq in an intelligent, serious manner, statesman like --- instead of utilizing the opportunity to bash his poliltical opponent? Remember the good ol days when an incumbent spent some of his time doing the job he was elected to do, instead of running 'round the country picking up checks? Trouble is neither Bush nor Cheney want to 'explain' anything... they want to DO and not answer to anyone... which is probably what they did this a.m. 'Bout time for Dubya to break for lunch and watch his sports on cable and eat his chicken salad sandwich... 'nuff of this questioning 'bout events he wasn't properly alerted about... nobody told him where or what time... not his fault... probably looking for another diet coke... right about now... Namaste Posted by: Jo on April 29, 2004 04:43 PMAs a person with 'cognitive dissonance' I am http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/29/arts/television/29STAN.html?pagewanted=print&position= Posted by: wv on April 29, 2004 05:00 PMNancy, http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=516301 The Politics of Truth: Inside the Lies that Led to War and Betrayed My Wife's CIA Identity, is published tomorrow. "Tomorrow is going to be a busy day for Mr Wilson, a former ambassador to several African countries and a member of President Bill Clinton's national security council. For while the initial "scoop" will appear in his book, if precedent is any guide the revelation will quickly be devoured by all other media and Mr Wilson will likely be filling the airwaves and broadcasts that day." More... at link above ----------------- Nancy, there's help from an unusual quarter for wearing down this cognitive dissonance: Howard Stern. Catch that lovely word 'cogently' below: "Stern will never be mistaken for a policy wonk, but tune in to his show and you'll hear him cogently attacking administration positions on an impressive range of issues: stem-cell research, abortion rights, gay marriage, media consolidation, the handling of Iraq. Meanwhile, Stern's revamped website looks more like Mother Jones magazine than Maxim: It features articles about the administration's trade violations in Myanmar and includes a link to the contributions page of the John Kerry for President site. Indeed, Stern has become an ardent Kerry advocate. "I call on all fans of the show to vote against Bush," he said on a recent broadcast. "We're going to deliver the White House to John Kerry." More at http://www.smirkingchimp.com/article.php?sid=15961&mode=nested&order=0 ------------------------- Siobhan, Namaste Jo, I agree there is much to be said about being respectful given the circumstances in Iraq and Afghanistan considering many folks from Missouri are at one or the other. People are riled up after the Cheney visit, they are worried about their spouses, children, and friends in the war zones. They've done solemn and somber. Now they want to express anger and show support for Kerry. The message sent out to curb their enthusiasm was poorly worded. Several people wrote and called saying basically they felt unwelcomed, viewed as a pack of annoying children. Many of whom I might add are well into their 50s and 60s. In the long of it, it is no big deal. Kerry will get their vote, but he is losing their support with little incidents like this. Posted by: Cass on April 29, 2004 05:25 PMjo - I have particularly noted the effect of the transiting Mercury station. Things seem stuck. Whatever big story is going on wants to move foreward but can't. The DC sniper was busy killing people and the police were getting nowhere during a Mercury station. Now we have the standoff in Fallujah and Najaf. Negotiations (Mercury) going nowhere but no resolution. The 2000 election was on a Mercury station. And we know how long that took to resolve. To tell you the truth, I never made a prediction based on a Jupiter station before, but I noticed we are in one, and Jupiter is expansiveness, right. So it seems we might expand our action as Jupiter starts to move forward again. Think of it as a person running in a certain direction toward a goal. He begins to slow down and then comes to a standtill, not moving at all toward a goal, and then turns and begins moving toward another goal. During the standstill, nothing is happening except he is changing course toward another goal. As he speeds up, he becomes more effective again. But itis also true that certain energies are stronger during a station, becasue the energy just gets more intense. Saturn, which is already a retarding, slowing energy, will get stronger in a station. Pluto will get more intense inwardly. But Mercury and Jupiter want quick action and are restless. So I would think a station would really impede their action. Posted by: Nancy on April 29, 2004 05:29 PMHere is an article that describes what we might be seeing with Saturn in Cancer conjunct US Sun and then Mercury: a bursting of the housing bubble with all its ramifications. http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2004/0404.wallace-wells.html Posted by: Nancy on April 29, 2004 05:30 PMCass, Your query about tMerc creating communication problems is no doubt a factor... This war has created such a mess... so much suffering, our troops are extremely exposed right now, and the Iraqi people are being heavily bombed... it's a real no-win situation... and the troops families are suffering... Pat's right... we need help from the gods... Namaste ------------------------ Nancy, thanks for the words on the stations... in the past I've tended to think too much inside the box, that is that the planet is emphasising a point with the back and forth energy... your insight that it's an actual change in goals or direction puts it more out of the box for me... thanks again... Namaste Posted by: Jo on April 29, 2004 05:49 PMJo - The Mercury station is not a good time for Wilson's book to come out. There may be delays, a misprint, a mixup, a WH freeze on the publication because there is an investigation pending. It will start out slowed or delayed somehow, I would think. Posted by: Nancy on April 29, 2004 06:04 PMGeorge Will, whom I seldom bother to read, made a very interesting comment this AM in his column. I think this may indicate a change in the weather. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A51732-2004Apr28.html "Might elections provoke a Shiite-Sunni civil war? Yes. The presidential election of 1860 catalyzed the American Civil War. But in Iraq, civil war might be preferable to today's combination of disintegration tempered by violent Sunni-Shiite collaboration against U.S. supervision. snip The results of elections, including theocratic elements, may be markedly unlovely. That may break the big hearts of those in the U.S. government who hope for a luminously liberal democracy to shame the entire Middle East into emulation, thereby justifying the war originally justified primarily by the threat of Iraqi weapons of mass destruction. But pursuit of that ideal can impede achievement of something tolerable: a stable, perhaps illiberal, even authoritarian Iraq which cooperates in the war against terrorism. Call this an exit strategy.
Rats are leaving the sinking ship? Posted by: Jo on April 29, 2004 06:25 PMThe Liberation of Iraqdonald's is colliding with reality. Here is the Mercury station: we said yesterday we were pulling out of Fallujah. Today we are bombing Fallujah. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x518272 Posted by: Nancy on April 29, 2004 06:31 PMCNN has poll up re Bush/Cheney testifying in public before Commission... Network TV covered Shrub's pathetic remarks after meet this a.m. with Commission... word - long, long pause - word -- longer pause -- 1st word again... Pushed "off" button... Posted by: Jo on April 29, 2004 06:34 PMI'm a Missourian. I'm a Kerry supporter. I spend a lot of time on his web site reading the various opinions. I can only suppose that it is human nature to want to give back whatever it is you're getting from others as in Kerry giving to Bush the same as Bush is giving him. I know it's horribly difficult in this day and age to not run a negative campaign but I respect Kerry's approach right now. He's got to differentiate himself from Bush. Matching stone for stone puts Kerry on Bush's level and JK isn't yet the "official" nominee. I trust that there is passion behind Kerry's moon/saturn conjunction. The man has venus in scorpio for goodness sake! Besides after listening to the dean of Westminster College, I got the impression he did not want a campaign speech from either candidate. Cheney breached some form of etiquette and showed how crass he really is. Posted by: Teresa on April 29, 2004 06:48 PMIf they refer to the HOMELAND one more time I'll scream. Nancy, What do you think of 60 year cycles? So far That's funny about W's hair and body double! I was just saying that to a friend of mine this morning and felt silly: but how silly of ME. If one person is thinking it, trust that many more are. My friend said the hair-standing-on-end days are his "spider-hole" look. Posted by: elizabeth on April 29, 2004 08:27 PMmaybe external manifestation of internal "bad hair day?" Posted by: Jeanie on April 29, 2004 08:35 PMRe Dean walking off on Democracy Now after being asked about the assassinations by Israel, you can read the transcript for yourself. When asked if he condemns Israel's actions, he gives one of his curt answers and walks away. Here's the link: As far as Bu$h's presto~chango hairstyle... Bu$h and Cheney are both dopplegangers. Seriously. They aren't actually human, they are rather pseudopods of a vastly evil, protoplasmic shoggoth that only manifests them as necessary to act as focal nodes in directing the counter~evoloutionary energies of the Dominionists/Neoconservatives. ...or something like that. ~D Posted by: Dommael on April 29, 2004 09:01 PMAmusing that in a thread about cognitive dissonance I go on record with remarks vis a vis/Dean/raj hard-on illustrative of our mutual predisposition to cognitive dissonance. P.S. This is why they insisted on appearing together in front of the 9-11 commission. It was requiring too much energy for the shoggoth to manifest them in separate locations. This way they can share one tentacle between the two of them... Posted by: Dommael on April 29, 2004 09:19 PMtMars has moved off nUSAmars but tPluto is still there, trined by tMerc Sta i think it's amazing that dick and bush and so self-incriminating that they wouldn't even let a stenographer in, let alone go under oath...what they did/do in fact KNOW must be so punishable by law, that they'd be so terrified to be found out and actually go to jail, as opposed to just lose their job...it's so obvious...the american courts/people should have insisted they gounder oath..i mean hell they're suspect for just the election and appointment to head the country alone! i think they knew all the while...where is that california major who was given the heads up by rice? just amazing. Roxanne, don't worry about them not being under oath ~ see, the official explanation is that they already had to swear an oath to tell the truth when they were sworn into office. NO PROBLEM THERE!!! ~D Posted by: Dommael on April 29, 2004 10:00 PM
http://thealligatorsalley.com/Flash/Sonata%20II.htm Posted by: wv on April 29, 2004 10:12 PMSpeaking of that presidential oath of office: "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States." Vice Presidential oath: "I do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same: that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion, and I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God."
The Story: More at http://www.dailykos.com Posted by: Jo on April 29, 2004 10:30 PMgoing...going... *** By SARA KUGLER NEW YORK -- An anti-war group planning a massive demonstration at the start of the Republican National Convention in Manhattan has been denied a permit to rally in Central Park because the crowd would be too large. *** Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. Posted by: Dommael on April 29, 2004 10:32 PMIf you go to Kos' website and click on comments you can get the email addresses to protest these fascists... this is Plutonian energy at its ugliest! Posted by: Jo on April 29, 2004 10:58 PMhttp://www.decaturdailydemocrat.com/articles/2004/04/23/news/opinion/editorial02.txt From the website of Elizabeth Joyce: But the Bush cabnet's pervasive dishonesty and disconnect from reality may soon be significantly challenged. The first upset will come to Pinocchio Bush in June 2004. As it descends upon the members of the administration, it will be impossible for them to hide from the very apparent policy failures that will be clouding thehorizon. It seems quite likely that the deteriorating situation in Iraq will be one of the key issues plaguing the White House, with little support from allies forthcoming. It may well be that the UN refuses Bush¹s offer of minimal power in exchange for a bailout. In addition, from June 8 through June 10, the G8 Summit will meet, likely refusing Bush the support he will so desperately need and humiliating him in front of the world. Some of the many percolating scandals may also coalesce around this time. The Plame affair, the Cheney energy commission, the report of the 9/11 Commission are but a few of the many potential sources of great discomfort for the administration.
Anyone else see anything? Could one of you experts look into his health? Posted by: Jean on April 30, 2004 12:47 AMJean, I saw the same bruise on the face. I too dismissed it. Now, I'm curious if it's another pretzel incident. Posted by: Janet on April 30, 2004 12:58 AMUmmmm, I think I already mentioned that Bu$h is a PSEUDOPOD of the OUTER GODS and this lesion is obviously a indication of Said entity having difficulty controlling the manifestation under all of the present duress. ~D Posted by: Dommael on April 30, 2004 01:12 AMMore Sidney Blumenthal http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,4912805-103677,00.html Posted by: wv on April 30, 2004 01:20 AMA pseudopod of the outer gods? And people wonder why so many in the "heartland" think the "left" are a bunch of granola eating, tie-dye wearing whackos? (for the record, I love granola and my aunt runs a successful tie-dye t-shirt company) Jonathan Posted by: Jonathan on April 30, 2004 01:31 AMHmmm, perhaps I jumped too quick. Maybe someone could explain what Dommael meant or direct me to the earlier post I must have missed? Thanks. Jonathan Posted by: Jonathan on April 30, 2004 01:40 AM
Worth a read ....!Some of the rats are leaving what they think is now a sinking ship! http://www.strike-the-root.com/4/dankof/dankof2.html Posted by: Siobhan on April 30, 2004 02:54 AMSome dare call it treason! Read! http://baltimorechronicle.com/041704reTreason.shtml Posted by: Siobhan on April 30, 2004 02:58 AMFinancial Tsunami in May? Transitting Mars ans Saturn will affect all of these charts beginning in late May 2004. U.S. Treasury, Sep 2, 1789, natal Mars 11 Cancer 17 NYSE, May 17, 1792, secondary prog Moon 9 Capricorn 58 Dow-Jones Industrial Avg, July 3, 1884, Sun 12 Cancer 14 The Revenue Act, Oct 3, 1913, The Federal Reserve, Dec 23, 1913 OPEC, Sep 14, 1960 The Euro, Jan 1, 1999 and Jan 1, 2002 In May (22nd through the 27th)I use the Bush chart relocated to Crawford, TX., where the conjunction of transiting Mars and Saturn will occur on the Ascendant of the chart. Congress is scheduled to be recessed from the 24th through the 28th of May, which means they will be off from the 22nd of May through June 1st. I expect Bush may be in Crawford at that time. Timetable for transiting Saturn contacts to the Sibley, Bush, & WTC June 21, conj Bush precessed Sun @ 105d 50m June 30, sq Sibley precessed Sat @ 197d 33m July 6, conj Sibley precessed Sun @ 107d 53m July 6, sq Bush precessed Moon @ 197d 58m July 7, conj WTC attack MH @ 108d 06m July 11, opp transiting Nep\Pl midpoint @ 288d 37m July 14, sq Bush precessed, relocated, MH @ 19d 05m Also: July 16, transiting Mars opp transiting Nep, Mars is conj Bush precessed Pl and Nep is opp. A look at what transitting Saturn will be doing in the natal and\or progressed charts of Bush and company between now and the election. As this post is long I offer no interpretations but I am confident that list members will be able to come up with supurb prognostations of their own. On September 1, 2004, Saturn will be at 23 Cancer 26. On November 1, 2004, Saturn will be at 27 Cancer 18. The Bush gang has or will have the following placements: George Bush: Sun 13 Cancer 46 Rumsfeld: Sun 17 Cancer 27 Ashcroft: Prog Sun 17 Cancer 53 Ridge: Saturn 20 Cancer 35 Rice: Prog Sun 12 Capricorn 57 And finally the Inauguration charts' Midheaven: 26 Capricorn 24. I am sure I have missed something but my brain is too tired to go back over everything right now. Bob Posted by: bob on April 30, 2004 03:02 AMBob! *************THE BIG DISssonance*************** Here is a corporate media poll, CBS-NY Times. Even these clowns are picking up the shift (in awareness and consciousness). You won't want to miss this one. Can hardly wait until Mercury goes direct. http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=615&e=2&u=/nm/20040429/pl_nm/bush_poll_dc Posted by: mike on April 30, 2004 03:44 AMGang, tonight Thurs. Apr 29 Frontline showed a documentary called "The Jesus Factor" which was about Dubya and his version of religion. The VCR or DVD can be ordered & I understand it can be viewed on the net. I hope it will be rerun so I can tape it next time. Jo, from you post toward the beginning, I can only say, you never need apologize to me. I thank you anyway for being so gracious. Posted by: Pat on April 30, 2004 04:26 AM"The world must learn, when I say something I mean it", just heard Bush say this on the telly. Him and Cheney look so smug. He should just come out and say that he is God, I'm sure he is itching to proclaim himself the Saviour, with Jupiter conjunct his Virgo Mars. But then his christian followers will know he is the long predicted anti-christ, if they are still awake. Great article, as always! and to join the fray, Krugman on cognitive dissonance in the NYT... http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/30/opinion/30KRUG.html?pagewanted=print&position= "We are all capable of believing things which we know to be untrue, and then, when we are finally proved wrong, impudently twisting the facts so as to show that we were right. Intellectually, it is possible to carry on this process for an indefinite time: the only check on it is that sooner or later a false belief bumps up against solid reality, usually on a battlefield." That's from George Orwell's 1946 essay "In Front of Your Nose." It seems especially relevant right now, as we survey the wreckage of America's Iraq adventure. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4865948/ "A human being is part of the whole, called by us the 'universe', a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings, as something separate from the rest -a kind of optical delusion of consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty." - Albert Einstein Posted by: jamsmitty on April 30, 2004 07:02 AMIn a phone interview with the Associated Press, 911 Commissioner Jim Thompson----Former Republican Governor of Illinois commenting on George Bushes testimony before the 911 Commission---- said Bush gave "A Five-Star Performance," adding, "I wish the American people could have seen it." Gosh Darn Jim-bo, The Boston Globe hit it right on the head when they printed: AMERICAN CITIZENS were left to listen at the keyhole yesterday as President Bush and Vice President Cheney closed the Oval Office door for a privileged private session before the commission investigating the 9/11 terrorist attacks.There was no press coverage allowed, no recording, no transcript to be made available later, no testimony given under oath -- and no good reason for any of it. If top officials in the Bush and Clinton administrations -- including the former president -- can walk into the people's house that is the US Capitol and make sworn statements for public consumption over the past two months, then Bush and Cheney certainly could have done so also. Demanding special treatment and hiding from the public on a matter of such vital national concern and grief is to play the imperial president and put politics ahead of statesmanship. "I'm glad I took the time, " Bush told reporters in a brief Rose Garden press conference after the meeting. "I enjoyed it." He sounded as though he'd just come from a charity golf tournament, not a meeting with people laboring to dissect the horror of Sept. 11, 2001. Bush, who has freely used images from that day in his campaign commercials, declined to say what the commissioners asked him and waved aside theories that he and the vice president appeared together to make sure that their testimonies would match.
To get breifly back to the Westminster College visit by Kerry, how on earth does he extrapolate protesting to the point of it being negative campaigning? Protesting against policies that are offensive to individual constituencies is part of our American political tradition. Individuals should be allowed to voice their opinions however they choose within the bounds of the law. He(Kerry), on the other hand, should tailor his comments in anyway he deems necessary to avoid 'going negative'. As a voter who is opposed to Bush on every issue, its my right to be vocal about my aborance of him and his policies. I have two relatives who have fought in this tragic 'war'. One of whom was injured and sent home to die (literally, the VA hosp. gave up on him); our family didn't. Fortunately, he recovered, and before he could stand straight at attemtion they sent him back to Iraq! So, if Bush or Kerry come to our town and bring the media coverage I will protest because I want the rest of America and the world to know: I DO NOT SUPPORT THIS WAR OR THIS PRESIDENT WHO BROUGHT THIS TRAGEDY! Posted by: soulchild on April 30, 2004 01:44 PMWhile candidate Kerry may ask that there be no protests and may speak on whatever he chooses, citizen Soulchild may protest... and protest... Bless you Soulchild... my heart aches for your relative's pain and suffering and for the family. Thanks be to families that 'support' in reality, unlike the robots who wave flags and support a failed leader who turns his back literally and figuratively on the troops he sends into 'his' war. Namaste Posted by: Jo on April 30, 2004 02:13 PMAnybody really know what it means when a city is under 'seige'? I posted a link the last thread about occupiers shooting ambulances, bombing hospitals and someone posted that I was wrong to post the link and wrong to believe that our teenagers could be doing these things... that coalition uniforms were sold in bazaars... Well, airplanes and bombs are not sold in bazaars. There's some cognitive dissonance in believing that 'our' military is perfect... only shoots when shot at... soldiers are trained to 'kill' --- period. They are destroying the people of Iraq to get rid of the 'thugs', the 'terrorists' --- somebody get THEM a mirror. Quick! Here's a link to the Guardian... I have to go to the BBC or the Guardian or any of the overseas papers to get these reports... because our papers will not carry these reports... Ted Koppel cannot even read the names of the fallen without causing an avalance of hate-mail and a black-out of his program in some areas. Wake up! This is NOT the country we grew up in... this is raw, unadulterated Plutonian energy... rolling across the planet... Luke Harding in Baghdad After two nights of bombardment by US jet fighters, the Ahmed family had had enough. At 7am on Wednesday Fadhil Ahmed ate his last piece of flat bread before bundling his wife and children into their Chevrolet. More ... http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1206705,00.html http://politics.guardian.co.uk/iraq/story/0,12956,1207045,00.html ---------------------- CBS released photos of Iraqi POWs - what do you think will happen to our troops when these are shown in the Middle East... Arabs/Muslims in Britain and Europe already know... are already outraged... Light to all...
WORTH REPEATING "A human being is part of the whole, called by us the 'universe', a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings, as something separate from the rest -a kind of optical delusion of consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty." - Albert Einstein am I the only one that caught that we I don't know how readers are familiar with the Guerrilla Girls (www.guerrillagirlsontour.com) but I saw them speak at the local campus last night. They were part of the Take Back the Night march for survivors of sexual assault at Western Washington University. Our local activist group, the "Raging Grannies" (I am not making this up) sang a few songs and spoke about the need for the voices of authoritative grandmothers to be heard in our society. I thought of Astroworld immediately, of course. We had a female martial arts master break boards like Uma Thurman and put the smack-down on some aggressors in defensive scenarios (there were a lot of tips on how to set boundaries and typical college scenarios to watch out for.) A friend of mine performed as one of the Sexual Assault Squad Cheerleaders, who rather shockingly call attention to stereotypes in the media, politics and popular culture. Their finale was a wonderful cheer called "My Bush for Prez-i-dent!" Finally, the Guerrilla Girls came on and they did their thing. They are still totally anonymous ("we could be anyone ~ we are everywhere") and they gave a sort of interactive lecture - wherever they go they do research on the town where they are speaking so I found out about statistics for sexual assault on campus, what measures are being taken to counter those crimes, what resources are available to women and the state of the women's movement in the government, both state and federal. Oh yeah, the Guerrilla Girls also reminded me that more women than men have voted in every presidential election since 1984. To top it off, all of the women marched to the federal building downtown in the march, complete with drummers, chanting and songs. And let me tell you, these girls was a gettin' rowdy~ It reminded me once again that this election is a wild card and it's easy to lose track of just how many groups Bu$h has infuriated during his stolen presidency. I was pleasantly surprised at the innovative use of the media, the lecture circuit and the articulate word to raise awareness and spread solidarity among women. Karl Rove may regret the day he decided to go with the Culture War option for "Re"-Election. The women I had the pleasure to listen to yesterday are not fooling around. They are calling for a revoloution. ~D P.S. Jonathan ~ I'm trying my hand at making indisputable comments on message boards. I know the idea of Bu$h being an evil otherworldly agent sounds crazy now... Posted by: Dommael on April 30, 2004 05:41 PMI attended a dinner last honoring those who support and volunteer for a local organization which provides shelter for abused women and their children, male victims of abuse (yes, there are some), victims of sexual assault. There were rows of shoes... belonging to the victims in our state of sexual assault... some very tiny, some athletic, some stiletto heels...slippers... boots... just rows and rows of shoes. There were speeches from only two people: one woman who is retiring, having served as director for 20 years at the shelter... just an ordinary grandmother in sneakers, reading her hand scribbled notes, telling anecdotes --- like the time she had to shoo some of the young boys staying at the shelter away from the cemetery where they were 'lifting' flowers to bring back to their battered moms... The other was a middle-aged woman with her lower left leg in a brace, who came forward smiling to read some of her poems, having only recently regained the use of her voice... damaged through the hands of violence. Her words spoke lovingly of someone who had brought her 'leftovers' as she cowered, hidden in a 'small tunnel'... obviously as a child. Not a trace of anger could be found in her readings... The outpouring of love in the room was tangible. Plutonian energy can be powerful, transforming... we must reach out, in compassion to all during these times... Our neighbors, family members who in their cognitive dissonance support this administration and its failed policies abhor violence... our compassion must overcome their fears. The tMoon is waxing and during the coming days our light and prayers will be more energized as we send them out into the universe. Namaste Posted by: Jo on April 30, 2004 06:52 PMBeautiful, Jo! I wrote of the documentary showing American uniforms and flak jackets, grenades and missile firers being sold in the Iraqi bazaar. Jo wrote of Iraqi ambulances being shot at, not bombed from the air. I think it highly possible that the Iraqi's who are trying to incite civil war may have been the ones I repeat Jo, you referred to ambulances being shot at by bullets in that post, not being bombed. Today's news was of an Iraqi professor who spoke against Iraqi's continuing attacks on the US even though he wants the US out of his country. He was found hung with a note pasted on him from Sadr's army essentially saying "This is what you get". Let's not be over the moon here . Yes there have been disgusting and shocking abuses by Americans in every war, in Vietnam there was Mylai and that was when the American public found out we don;t always wear the white hat. In every large group there are a small percentage of sadisitic sickos, people who start out as children by blowing up frogs for instance. The American army is not any different. A small percentage over there are probably serial killers or out of control with mob fever. But let's not indict every American soldier.
http://www.defenselink.mil/transcripts/2004/tr20040430-1401.html and another murder.... In Baghdad last night, an Iraqi police colonel, Ahmed al-Kazraji (ph), was murdered in downtown Baghdad. He was gunned down as he left his office to go home for the night, and the Iraqi police service are investigating. Pallas, You're correct Pallas, I spoke of amulances being shot at by US soldiers testified to by an Iraqi physician [Salam al-Obaidi]and reported in a British newspaper http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3653223.stm My comment on the last thread also included an excerpt from the article: ..."Ambulance accusations: British aid worker Jo Wilding said an ambulance she was in, with flashing lights, siren blaring and "ambulance" written on it in English, was hit as it drove to collect a woman in premature labour. ----------------- Hi Jo, before we say our teenage kids over there are shooting up Iraqi ambulanes and believing it... --------------- Pallas, I have to say, your comment sounds like a direct repudiation of what eye witnesses have reported... I'm sure you saw the documentary and I'm sure there were US uniforms, etc. (Rummy was saying this same thing at the beginning of the invasions also... you'd think they would take better care of their stock of uniforms?)... but you attempted to use that fact, that uniforms were available, to repudiate what eye witnesses were saying. Please don't tie the two posts together to suggest that I said earlier the ambulances were shot and now I'm saying they were bombed. That's not what I said. Furthermore, I was reporting what was reported... I have yet myself to see any shooting or bombing. I don't think my comments were over the moon as you suggest or a blanket indictment as you suggest. However, your perception is that is what I am saying. So, I will address that. I am as distressed as you to contemplate that any of the above did happen or is happening. I have a nephew in Iraq now, who was in Afghanistan before that. I do not think our military or anyone else's is perfect. As you mentioned, there are certainly some individuals in our military who should not be there. But things are out of control in Iraq, and like a lot of people I don't know what the heck we are doing there. The anti-American sentiment is growing... which puts our troops more at risk. I want them home, alive. And you are certainly correct that there are Iraqis who have motives for opposing us in order to gain or regain power for themselves. But even the pundits who see the possibility of a civil war if we pull our troops out, do not see evidence for that now, nor do they see evidence for efforts to ignite one now. On the contrary, they see the various religious factions united in an effort to oust us. I have re-read my posts and your suggestion that I am indicting every American soldier is simply not valid. I do not believe I have given you a basis to make that assumption. I don't like 'he said', 'she said' --- I engaged in this solely in defense of my comments and my posts. I try to support my posts with links to articles. Your perception of what I said cannot be changed by me. I stand by what I posted and make no apology for it. Peace
Excellent article! I'm sure by now that you all have heard about the torture and abuse that is going on in Iraq. Before you try to argue that the documented case is an isolated incident, just remember that similar behavior goes on in thousands of fraternities, sororities, and military institutions around the country. We call it hazing. When it happens to foreign prisoners we call it torture. I suspect that the torture and abuse of Iraqi prisoners is widespread, and if you have ever done any work in the sociology of war and peace you will understand why I make this claim. The other thing I wanted to point out in relation to this story is the CNN poll which is admittedly unscientific. Nonetheless, almost 35% of responders don't seem to have any emotional reaction to or problem with this kind of abuse. This leads me to two conclusions. First, it supports my claim that the abuse is probably more widespread thatn we are currently aware of. If 30% of open-minded CNN viewers are willing to tolerate torture for the sake of torture, how do you think the FOX news viewers feel? Or the country as a whole? Or a bunch of military types who don't have any problem with hazing, and for whom routinized personal violence has become second nature? The second conclusion I draw from the CNN poll is that we have a serious problem in this country. In some ways, the poll results are more damning than the torture itself. It shows that a large portion (though not a majority) of our society does not have a problem--intellectual, emotional, spiritual, or otherwise--with unprovoked violence. Sorry to make such depressing comments, but I felt that somebody needed to say something. Posted by: Dave on April 30, 2004 10:17 PMPallas, "Indict the people who started this and sent them there to kill, instead." Who, in your opinion would that be, Pallas 18? And I thought the troops went in to liberate the people of Iraq, to find WMD. I didn't know they were sent there to kill. Namaste
I agree that we as a nation are horribly calloused. In direct contrast, Many thanks, Dave. I, too, was very taken aback with the poll results. I think it's the cowboy crap (Bring 'em on! Nuke 'em and let the Lord sort 'em out! Etc.). It was with us in Viet Nam until finally people got enough of all the blood being dumped by the tv into their living and dining rooms. Any people that will allow atrocities that have happened since Viet Nam (Allende comes to mind, Panama and so on) have not learned. I suspect that they never will. Not when they have God on their side. Posted by: shylurker on April 30, 2004 10:48 PMAt the risk of sounding like a broken record, millions of dollars are being spent in a one-sided media saturation campaign to reinforce the perception that U.S. violence has no negative repercussions. Imagine (imagine!) the pressure to conform that must exist when there is no dissent in your neighborhood and the idiot box tells you 500x a day to rally around the President and that if you don't you're helping the terrorists. Of course, this isn't an excuse for not having a conscience. I'd say that Americans definitely have a big freakin' issue a mile wide that has to do with acceptable, even desirable levels of violence countered with a lack of empathy. I'd also point out that if you aimed the multi-million dollar media propaganda machine that we have at home at any other culture on earth, those folks would have the same struggle going on with cognitive dissonance in their society. ~D Posted by: Dommael on April 30, 2004 10:53 PMtMerc moving Nancy? http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ft/20040430/bs_ft/1083180186465 Former US diplomats send protest letter to Bush (No, that's not Blair, that's BUSH! 20 signers) Posted by: Jo on April 30, 2004 11:07 PMCould it be that violence in movies and tv, news and entertainment, over the past 30plus years has desensitized too many people? Studies have shown there is little difference in the brain's reactions to real circumstance or visual images from pictures. Posted by: Jeanie on April 30, 2004 11:13 PMWell yes Dave! "So should we be reflecting on how the torture of these Iraqis affects our campaign for hearts and minds in the Middle East? Absolutely. But shouldn't we also be reflecting on how the torture of these Iraqis affects the character of American institutions? For in a country that self-governs, the folks that make the political decisions and build institutions that are supposed to prevent tyranny - well who really is responsible for the government of a country that self-governs?" ....... Matt Stoller at BOP http://www.bopnews.com/archives/000630.html#630
WOW...these are suppose to be bush's astrologically last 'good days' - usa seen as gross for iraqi prison torture i close my eyes in my utopian head and i see the results of the 2004 election: nader 50 percent hey, it can happen if bush goes down THAT LOW..this is going to be between kerry and nader..and if the above result isn't the ultimate karma on the 2000 election i don't know what would be.... it's nice to dream.. the people have the power.. Posted by: Roxanne on May 1, 2004 01:03 AMMY GOD, it is absolutely FASCINATING what Chiron is triggering these days in the Vietnam vets!!! This is from Mark Lerner:>>> Those pictures caused all kinds of stuff to come up out of the trenches, vets are having FITS about war crimes, etc. I visit the mil.com forums, and if anyone is interested & has the time & inclination to see it: http://forums.military.com/1/OpenTopic?a=tpc&s=78919038&f=409192893&m=713104901 Posted by: Peg on May 1, 2004 02:40 AMdang, the paste didn't work. Trying again, re: Chiron:SAT MAY 1 Controversy and confusion are swirling all around. Will you be caught up in the psychic maelstrom? The main headline is Chiron slowing down, stopping and turning retrograde at 27 degrees of Capricorn. The time is close to 10PM PDT. [Chiron stays retrograde until September 26 when it will turn direct at 21 degrees of Capricorn.] All Chiron themes -- life quest, maverick and eccentric qualities, bridges between realms and the personality and soul, keys opening doorways to higher consciousness, divination and oracular systems, holistic healing, wounds and pains, alternative medicine, twilight zones of unusual consciousness -- are pronounced now and for the next few days. Posted by: on May 1, 2004 02:42 AM"Could it be that violence in movies and tv, news and entertainment, over the past 30plus years has desensitized too many people? " Absolutely. There are so many movies that are filled with gratuitous blood and gore and killing and violence,worse than Hannibal Lechter, the majority of cable channels are filled with them-- cheapening life. planting the ideas to experience that, just as the kids who saw the movie where kids lay down in the middle of the highway , so they did too - and got run over. We are a violent violent country - and the worst of I think this country is close to erupting in revolution similar to the marches in Viet Nam - and they are prepared for it.....will not let marchers assemble in New York City or even in front of Sinclair Corporation - the police were already waiting there telling people they couldn't protest. If Iraq is about to explode against occupation, I think we are too - against occupation by the neo cons of our government. Posted by: Pallas18 on May 1, 2004 03:08 AMPallas, I agree. I said a few mos. ago that to know what was going to happen here, all we had to do was look to what we are making over in our image- Iraq. Posted by: Peg on May 1, 2004 03:36 AMhttp://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4874190/ Well the comment line over at Smirking Chimp is streamin', trailing red sparks! over the torture news story. Check it out................ I think things are moving so fast they hardly register. Most of the people I talk to don't even know about the purported atrocities. The media has hardly touched on the "fallujah massacre" that Amy Goodman was talking about last week or the torture and abuse that is being mentioned now. I don't think it even made the Washington Post. People who are aware want to see it as an aberation. But I think we must consider the reality of war and especially this war. When a person crosses a certain line and kills another human, something powerful happens to him/her. When it happens repeatedly, it can only cause a tremendous repression of normal sensitivity just to survive in such a situation. Add to that being shot at and car bombed and attacked in these surprise ambushes, and you start hating the enemy with great intensity. And then your deployment goes on and on, over a year, and you are ripe for really giving in to your rage and aggression. I am not excusing it, but I think the war situation, especially this one with few rules, likely breeds this kind of behavior more than we would like to believe. That is why, as Kerry says, war should always be a very last resort, when all else fails. This is perhaps Dubya's greatest sin. This war never had to be, not even close. But he is so far removed from the reality of what it means, that he and the other chickenhawks created it. Posted by: Nancy on May 1, 2004 05:41 AMCA sec of state has just banned Diebold machines in the state! Let's hope it's not the last state to ban them. Does anyone else get the feeling that things just began moving very very fast today? Maybe it's only my impression since I know Merc went direct, but jeez... I have been resisting the urge to hyperventilate all day. Nancy, you are putting up some world class analysis these days.I really look forward to your articles. The place to click for the link I posted on the Mayan 72 year cycle is at the top under forums with the title.... "Look out below stock Market Message Board".You might also want to check out the Political stool forum as there are some real quality posters there as well as great links to what interests us all. Posted by: Chas on May 1, 2004 07:36 AMThe thread "News links to the Iraqi melt down" can be found on the political stool forum and can be reached by scrolling down it is about half way down the page.Great links great discussion can be found here. Posted by: Chas on May 1, 2004 07:53 AMThe following letter is among those received by CBS after airing the story and photos. There were others from ex military who supported the action, but I bring this particular one here because I think it expresses the problem we face in this country, the division, the intensity of the hatred for anti-war or simply supporters of peace: "Why in God's name would you choose to air such a story at this time? This is something our country didn't need to know now. Everyone in this country is hanging on for dear life to support the troops, and you have taken all our faith in goodness away. How many more reports can we watch like this before support fades? We are losing our fight with other countries to support us, and now you have just sealed it. ... We've just lost the goal of helping anyone over there because of this show, and God help us. You are no better then those who did these horrible acts. Your reports are bringing down this country."
Thanks for the comment you posted, Jo. "In god's name," eh? That is the most amazing passing strange... er, "thinking" that I've seen in a few days & I've seen a trainload. "Don't show what we've been up to 'cause we want to keep on doing it." "Name withheld[?!?]" imagines that exposing the horrendous acts is the same as doing them... & "...taking away our faith in goodness..." Well, US/UK lunacy marches on with its jackbooted fashion-plates! As for the rest of us, nothin' like feeling one has been dropped down Alice's rabbit hole 24/7. Posted by: JoannaOregon on May 1, 2004 01:54 PMIf 'contractors' are treating the Iraqui people this way, no wonder they were tortured and burnt in exchange. Then we bomb back. All of this is inexcusable. US needs to see how we have become the 'not sees' and wake up. Seeing is waking up the whole world. Posted by: bhakti on May 1, 2004 02:10 PMNancy I agree with your last comments absolutely, a book about WWII, think it was by Studs Turkel, was reviwed years ago and I can remember the reviewer saying how the soldiers got to the point they were taking the gold filings out of the dead and this went on no matter what side the solders were on, and that the soldiers were told not to let war totally dehumanise them. That's what happens in war, you get so dehumanised for all the reasons you mention. As an aside, it's why there is so much violence in the world; it's well known when you grow up with abuse you have a tendency to become an abuser yourself. Some people get wise and overcome it, but not all. Thanks for a great article. Posted by: Isabelle Ghaneh on May 1, 2004 02:37 PMhttp://talk.guardian.co.uk/WebX?50@@.685f4468/0 Nancy, Isabelle, Our troops were 'psyched up' beyond the normal exercise of preparation for war... they went in to 'eradicate' evil, not merely in the form of Sadaam Hussein, but in the form of all Iraqis... a 'crusade' was and is being waged. And the psych ops has been ongoing... all year long... with a commander-in-chief who talks to god... a general (Kimmet) answering in response to a query about treatment of POWS, will it be allowed to continue: "We have brought a two-star general in whose previous job was running the detention facility at Guantanamo Bay; probably the military expert in the world today on conducting appropriate detainee operations. He's on the ground now. He's already making a significant difference." ------------------- Our troops have been psychologically damaged. Even those of us at home are experiencing psych ops... through the refusal to honor our fallen... the pulling of Ted Koppel's memoriam last night in some areas... it's constant! Posted by: Jo on May 1, 2004 03:24 PMi was mentioning to my husband that this latest HUGE scandal on the abuse of the iraqis by our soldiers is a perfect example of saturn to the us sun..y'know it's not a good thing to happen to the usa that we have soldiers like this, who are so sick, and that it comes to light..it is indeed oppressive to the 'cause' and image of our country..fascinating astrologically... no one commented on my prediction for the race to possibly boil down to nader and kerry? i really think bush would be lucky to get a 30 per cent rating in november the way things are starting to slide, and we haven't even hit may 21 yet... do the astrologers agree that he may be this low in november and the possibility of kerry/nader duking it out??? if we wake up with kerry president in early november we will all cry tears of joy, agreed..but if we wake up with ralph as pres..our country would be so empowered and really show a new face, i think we'd wake up standing -- it would be such an amazing re-birth for the country (don't everyone get on me -- this is a hoped scenario only if bush's ratings are at 30percent or below.) .. as i pointed out in a post on another subject, the characters that all play out (kennedys/bushs/clinton(s)/kerry), are so interesting when you take into account personal history and time in space..nader falls into that being a people advocate of the 60's of all decades..the 60s were the last chance that man woke up to say that maybe we don't want to buy materialism as a religion...and that is definitely an issue to-day...from our own sickness (violence glorification to make money to al quada's gripes) interesting..and i hear she's not being charged??? then i thought about the youth torching the boat???? what a wacko place we live in. Posted by: Roxanne on May 1, 2004 04:11 PMThis article is worth a read .. though it was written in the Reagan era it says so much about what is still going on today with regards to Iraq and the dehumanizing of the people there under the banner of religion. http://www.religion-online.org/cgi-bin/relsearchd.dll/showarticle?item_id=1442 Posted by: Siobhan on May 1, 2004 04:27 PMThis site is one of the best. The articles and comments are wonderfully stimulating. So, I am going to throw out some questions I have regarding this 30 years on Saturn return of sorts. The last time the USA went thru a transitting Saturn conj Sun period approximately 30 years ago, Pluto was in the mix squaring Saturn from Libra at different times, or the Cancerian USA planetary placements. Remember SDS? the Weatherman? and of course, Watergate? The USA's progressed Sun was coming up to USA's Pluto position (27 Cap) during those years as well. The surge in population growth known as the "baby boomers" were just coming of age back then. Now this same generation is in control of the world they have made. It does not surprise me that Conservatism has such a hold with aging boomers. Makes sense if you think about it in a generalizing kind of way. So now Chiron is on the USA's Pluto? And by the next presidential inauguration (2005, if we get an election that is,) it will still be in oppositon to Saturn and conjunct the Sun. Has anyone looked at this chart? But what most concerns me is, what does the Mars conjunct Pluto in the 8th house mean, plus it sextiles Jupiter in the 6th? I guess too it depends on who will be inaugurated on that day. The Pluto in Scorpio Generation is coming of age now. There has all ready been talk of bringing back the draft. Venus Conj Mercury in the 9th house of foreign affairs looks to be a good thing, yet is squares that Jupiter in the 6th. Plus, there's that Saturn/Chiron thing on the actual presidency. Well, we are all ready a split nation, so no matter who wins November's election, there will be half a country angry at the results. Nancy? Sally? Has anyone looked at this chart? Moon, the people will be squaring Uranus in the 11th from the 2nd house. Bush Admin chart has Chiron/Moon/Pluto all in the 8th. Never saw a better marker foretelling 9/11, or the secrecy and amount of power the corporations now hold over government. Then there is the Neptune/Sun trining Jupiter in the 1st house. That speaks volumes for the hold Dubya and Cheney seem to have over their worshippers in this country. I am a beginner in this study of Mundane Astrology, but trying hard to see where this is all taking us. Anyone have any ideas? Posted by: Sharon on May 1, 2004 04:29 PMYes, Nader did good things as a consumer advocate. When it comes to presidential elections, however, Nader shows himself to be as much a rank opportunist as any. Bush & Gore were Tweedle-dum and Tweedle-dee. Was Nader displaying lack of knowledge of the BFEE in making that statement or was he just being deceitful and misleading people so he could get some more votes? Why is he running today? We are up against it big time and Nader is still running for President, hoping to syphon off some votes from the Dems. And for what purpose? Who is funding him? He takes money from whatever source and then wants to proclaim himself as pure as the driven snow? Gimme a break. You want champions, look at Kucinich (who hasn't a chance in hell--our hell right here and now--but who is the best of the lot). Sharon, "The surge in population growth known as the "baby boomers" were just coming of age back then. Now this same generation is in control of the world they have made. It does not surprise me that Conservatism has such a hold with aging boomers. Makes sense if you think about it in a generalizing kind of way." ~ Hello to all. Have been reading this site for many weeks and learning much re: astrology. I come to the site for the astology information tied to today's politics. It's a godsend to have this other perspective and not feel that all is lost. Enough about me. A few comments/observations: First, I live in Columbus, Ohio one of the cities where the Nightline show was not suppose to air. It did not air on the Sinclair station, but another station (ONN -- Ohio News Network) did air it. So, if one had cable, one could watch the show. I hold a degree in journalism and have to say that I wish I could reincarnate as Ted Koppel ... he is SO powerful in delivery, tone and content. Second, as to the matter of Ralph Nadar becoming President. Here's the hitch (which has been expressed before) ... he could not be EFFECTIVE. The entire political system would have to change as well as the president. The best hope is for Kerry or someone other than Bush to be elected and two things to happen: 1.) keep pressure on new President to reform our government to meet the needs and wishes of the American public, and 2.) load the high posts (Secretary of Defense, State, etc.) with reformers. Say, Howard Dean for Secretary of Health. In other words, we have to get the reformers inside the system and work it inside out. It is a much slower, painful process, but the only way a new way of governing can be created that will last. If Nadar was president, there would be an enormous upheavel created by those trying to keep him from succeeding. Third, if the "real" government is run by, say the Trilateral Commission, is it not possible that they say to Dubya ... "you're not doing such a hot job, going to have to give this one to John"? Fourth, perhaps this has been done, but, if not, what would Laura Bush, Lynn Cheney, or Teresa Hines Kerry's charts reveal concerning a change of residence, etc.? L & L, Morgana, thanks so much for your comments about the Baby Boomers. Many did rally 'round freedom and took to the streets. Others did rally 'round respect for our planet and tried to find alternative ways to live in harmony (with nature and ourselves). (And, of course, been did both and infused the whole movement with unprecedented creativity.) And blah-blah-blah. Nonetheless, the Young Repugs were around in full force back then, the FBI et al. were doing all they could to stop us in our drive for full civil rights (rather than upholding the Constitution which we thought was their job), the Minutemen and John Birch Society and KKK seemed to be almost omnipresent, and the war raged on and on. We did leave quite a legacy for others to build upon (and, certainly, improve) but the struggle continues into the future as far as the eye can see. VigVirg, thank you for your comments about trying to change the system from within. The structures that are (is it mainly 'were' now?) in place need fresh faces, knowledgeable persons uncorrupted by greed and malice, to get this whole thing back on track. I, too, wish we could just overthrow all the baggage, but I, too, doubt that we would be allowed to do so and that what would be put in place instead would be what many of us fear most (corporate fascism, with all its attendant horrors). Thanks to all for the supportive atmosphere that prevails here. It is a safe haven, a respite for many of us. Thanks to Sally for making this a reality and to all the astrologers (top notch!!) who provide us the tools, interpretations and insights that help sustain us. OK, that's enough for quite a while. I guess I'm so badly shaken by all that's happening so fast right now that I needed to bore the rest of you with my awkward attempt to stabilize my equilibrium. Posted by: shylurker on May 1, 2004 06:49 PMHappy May Day everyone! May Day is Lei Day in Hawaii Nei - sending flowers of love to you all. Jeanie, heck with the flowers, send plane tickets :)!! V Virgo(welcome!), you wrote: "Third, if the "real" government is run by, say the Trilateral Commission, is it not possible that they say to Dubya ... "you're not doing such a hot job, going to have to give this one to John"?" This is EXACTLY what I think. I also think we are all being played for fools if we don't wake up and see it! Everyone says D.K. or Dean is perfect....except, always except. Why should we limit ourselves with these stupid exceptions? I think there's still time & I won't give up hoping. Happy May Day from me too!!! Posted by: Peg on May 1, 2004 08:16 PMSkylurker: I think we already have corporate fascism. I agree that Kucinich is the best man, but am hoping that he at least gets Cabinet post of Energy Secretary. He could get things going in the direction of alternative energy, hopefully before PEAK OIL hits real hard. PEG: thanks for the Chiron link. Posted by: Beverly on May 1, 2004 08:55 PMSiobhan, I recommend the following link which produces a study conducted by journalism.org ... there's a multitude of topics and again, help in understanding... this time the changes in the media... Bill Moyers on NOW last night interviewed Bob Edwards of NPR's Morning Edition. Yesterday was Bob's last day... as many of you know, he was 'squeezed out' by NPR executives who want a 'different voice'... Moyers, another 'baby boomer' is now IMHO, our last vestige of truth in journalism on TV... the conversation between the two brought forth the following comment from Edwards: "news today is 'entertainment/news' and must bring in revenues" --- decades ago we all know that was not the case. Tom Brokow will be leaving after the election, and shortly the other two... cable news (from report linked below) has been 'flat' since 2001... some bloggers say the internet is not only edging out the networks and cable, but its growing popularity is now forcing mainstream to report more fully, accurately... downside is believed to be that the polarization we see will intensify as most seek out websites and blogs that conform to their opinions... reinforcing cognitive dissonance? Or perhaps forcing the mainstream to divorce itself from Dubya? (Hey, Roxanne, I can dream too!) http://www.stateofthenewsmedia.org/index.asp Anyway, Mike, today tMercury finishes its station... the last few days have us all spinning so hold on... who knows what's coming... Welcome VigVir! Light to all Namaste Posted by: Jo on May 1, 2004 08:57 PMI don't think I have seen this baffleing subject discussed on this site. http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s1035353.htm "Bush / Blair nominated for Nobel Peace Prize 2004" by Norweigen conservatives. This is not a joke. For you people who have an e-mail address (for signature verification) please go to www.thepetitionsite.com and add your name and comments to the petition. They are not likely to win due to other nominations, but this has got to be stopped!! Posted by: Beverly on May 1, 2004 09:10 PMChas - I had seen the article on the 72 year cycle. I am not sure where it had been previously posted. It was very interesting, and thank you for posting it here. I was struck by how it ties into Saturn on the US Mercury beginning in the fall. I hadn't noted the progressed South Node conjunct natal US Pluto aspect getting hit by transiting Saturn. That natal 2nd house US Pluto has much to do with our insatiable greed. Saturn crossing it is another indicator of economic problems and forced belt tightening. Regarding the prison abuse issues, Seymour Hirsh's latest article suggests that the horrible abuse uncovered with Iraqi prisoners may have been OFFICIAL POLICY in order to get them to talk, rather than the misdeeds of a few bad apples. This could get very, very big. It will no doubt be part of what is in the pot come June. http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?040510fa_fact Today's Naomi Klein article is also just incredible. She calls for a mutiny and says it has already begun. http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0430-14.htm Posted by: Nancy on May 1, 2004 09:14 PMJO;I was very, very saddened when I heard Bob Edwards was leaving NPR. I listen every morning without fail. Will miss his soothing morning voice greatly. He told Brook Gladstone, of "On the Media", early in April, that he a brought in 12/13 million listeners since he started with the show (tripleing listenership), an amazing feat given the competitive nature of a.m.(morning) radio. I would think they would want to improve on that by keeping him around a while longer. But now that they got that $200 million dollar contribution from Mrs. Krock, they can do what they darn please I guess. There has been tremendous outcry from listeners on internet forums, but not enough to change their minds I guess. It seems like all the "mature" TV/Radio hosts are disappearing. I think they are makeing a big mistake. Hope they don't go after Robert Segal or Carl Castle next. Posted by: Beverly on May 1, 2004 09:32 PMSharon - All good points about the coming Inaugural chart. I am not happy with Saturn on the IC, Chiron on the MC, and Neptune square the Ascendant. I especially worry about that last because it suggests some disarray and confusion on how the adminstration puts itself forth. The good news in that chart is that Neptune is part of a grand trine with Jupiter and the Moon, Pluto/Mars is sextile Jupiter and Neptune, and Mercury/Venus is trine the Ascendant. These are very harmonising energies. Nothing in this chart is as aggressive and unbalanced as the T square in the current Inaugural chart: Mercury/Uranus square Mars and square Saturn. I would be interested if anyone knows the meaning of the vertex? It is conjunct Jupiter in the coming Inaugural chart. It is also interesting that in all Inaugural charts for Noon on January 20, US Pluto is conjunct the MC. The role of the president and his administration has much to do with shepherding American power and wealth (2nd house Pluto). Posted by: Nancy on May 1, 2004 09:33 PMvig virgo -- i'm virgo too..no if nader happen to win, it would be such a new day dawning that it would unite the country, stop this divide, and more would actually get done than with kerry or bush..my opinion..just the way i believe that another attack would not guarantee bush in 04, but guarantee that bush would lose.. shylurker..who cares who is funding nader? astrologically every single thing the gop does now blows up in their face, and if they fund ralph, even help him get on the debates, etc, he will win, and it would be ultimate corporate/republican blunder, worse than the war...i'm laughing ... now, time out! nancy when you wrote your nader article, why did you not tell us the following, which i've just discovered in opening my ephemeris: ralph nader -- november 2 2004 transiting sun trine natal sun nancy you were going on about neptune...why? isn't the above transits much more important?? now to my fave astrologers on this board is in regards to kerry (we all know astrologicaly bush is a loser this year)... i don't have ralphs part of fortune or vtx on my chart..i'll go back and look at astroworld's and see if there's any FURTHER indication connected with those... Posted by: Roxanne on May 1, 2004 09:43 PMBeverly and all, re a listening device/ earpiece for Bush to get answers to questions--I wish I could remember--this was discussed on an earlier thread. I asked a friend of mine who is in the video/film business. She was surprised that I even asked. Of course! she said. Apparently, when the Star/actor is capable of reading a teleprompter, they prefer that because the actor is looking (apparently) right into the camera and it looks so sincere. But if the Star is not capable of reading a teleprompter, they put a little radio into his ear and feed him the proper responses. I remember months ago saying to my sister--"Something is going on--do you notice that Bush doesn't make the same kind of mistakes anymore? And his delivery has changed. He says three or four words, then pauses. Then he says three or four more." Well, folks, our Bushie is just repeating what he is told. --Gosh, I wish we could get some electronic interference with that device sometime when Bush is on "live." Posted by: Barbara on May 1, 2004 10:18 PMThank you Nancy and Morgana for your insights. I notice that this coming eclipse falls right on the Asc/Desc of the Bush Administration Chart, with the moon right on Mars/Desc. And, to hope that I did not offend any other boomers out there, of which I qualify as one, I was just making note of population trends, and trying to apply them in a "general" way. One should never throw out the baby with the bath water concerning individuals versus a generation. I know life is way too complicated for that. I grew up watching pictures of the fallen in Viet Nam on the nightly news. We had "Look" and "Life" magazines with all these photos, stunning photos of what was happening in the world. Who remembers the monk that set himself on fire, or the guy with a gun to the head of this other guy, and then he shot him? Or, the naked girl running, screaming down a dirt road? I have never forgot. War is hell, it has always been hell and why people have forgotten that, I don't know. That a group of broadcasters would sensor pictures of a memoriam to our fallen soldiers is an abomination. That we have no idea how many Iraqi's have been killed since our occupation of that country is totally unreal. To be honest with you all, I don't think I have fully recovered from this current president actually being our president. What has happened to this country? Posted by: Sharon on May 1, 2004 10:27 PM
http://www.rense.com/general52/chend.htm I am sure they will try anything. Awhile back I admitted to 'cognitive dissonance'
He is retiring Dec.1 unfortunately Posted by: wv on May 1, 2004 10:39 PMYeah shylurker - I'm with you, Kucinich is the champion, the best of the lot. So if things happen so that Kerry does not get the nomination, I hope Kucinich does. Nader is a consumer advocate, and as such he is great, but he has no real experience that would be required of a President. I read a pretty good expose of him in Mother Jones magazine and many other articles about him. He is a loner and doesn't partilarly get along with people, how would he lead a nation or heal a nation's standing in the world. Kucinich could! Posted by: Laura on May 1, 2004 10:54 PMwow...so what is this all about with the bible code...? that cheney is sweating and preparing the bunker for a major disaster by may 20? anyone else hear about this stuff???? Posted by: Roxanne on May 1, 2004 11:01 PMThere are some good articles over on Maya del Mar's Daykeeper Journal. Alex Miller Migone's "The Day of The Dead Election, Part 1" http://www.daykeeperjournal.com/alex.shtml and, her "Notes on Dick Cheney" http://www.daykeeperjournal.com/feature2.shtml What if the justifyable fears of bush/cheney somehow contriving to cancel/postpone the Nov election actually happens? http://www.solsticepoint.com/astrologersmemorial/johndro.html A little about the vertex, or "electical ascendant." Posted by: Laurie on May 1, 2004 11:27 PMNancy, the Vertex always appears between the 5th and 8 th houses and is considered a "fate/fated" point. I haven't done the chart so I don't know what house Jupiter on the vertex is so I can't give you a delineation. BTW, it is usually read for the conjunct aspect. Posted by: Pallas18 on May 2, 2004 12:19 AMSharon. Boomer here. I share your memories. The cover of It was horriffic. That's why we now have "embedded" reporters. Coincidence or Pentagon secrecy? Posted by: Pallas18 on May 2, 2004 12:24 AMJust read that Justice Souter was mugged last evening while jogging. He's OK, but it makes me think perhaps we ought to be sending all the moderate Justices a little extra white light of protection to counteract people like the Pat Robertson followers, who have been vocally expressing the desire that something would happen to the center/left justices. Posted by: Jeanie on May 2, 2004 12:30 AMNancy, I googled up "vertex" and got the following: http://www.thezodiac.com/notworth.htm "The Vertex - I like to call the Vertex "Destiny's Gate"... According to the dictionary, a Vertex is "the summit, the highest point reached in the apparent motion of a celestial body or other points. Taken from the Latin - vertere, meaning 'to turn.' " In the horoscopic chart, the Vertex is calculated as being the point located at the intersection of the Ecliptic (path of the Sun) and the Prime Meridian, a plane that divides the celestial sphere into front and back. (If none of that mumbo jumbo chart calculation stuff makes any sense, then don't worry about it. It's only here for those few certain eggheads who know what to do with it and like to think about such weighty things.) The Vertex is actually part of a two point axis comprised of the Vertex and Anti-Vertex... As an axis - if your Vertex is located in 10 degrees of Scorpio, then your anti-Vertex is located in 10 degrees of Taurus. Some astrologers have devised distinctions between the two points, with the Anti-Vertex generally having the more negative effect. In practical experience, I haven't noticed a difference. Due to the "nature of the beast" - in any astrological chart, the Vertex is normally found lurking around in either the 5th, 6th, 7th, or 8th house. "In Astrology (the Nitty Gritty) Here's my astrological rule of thumb definition of the Vertex: the Vertex is a sensitive point on the chart (any chart) that during unusual, extraordinary times feels like a fortunate "turning point" or a meeting with "Destiny's Gate." The Vertex often feels like a compulsive, yet fortunate experience and meeting up with destiny that you couldn't avoid (even if you wanted to). According to Bill Meridian (Mountain Astrologer, June/July 2001), astrologer, Charles A. Jayne who (along with Lorne Johndro) first came up with using the Vertex, "felt this point was fated and that it represented matters beyond our control." There's more at the site, and there are more sites if you search "astrology vertex" ----------------------- Now, that's probably more info than you asked for, but that's a gemini's answer. Personally, I particularly love "points" in the chart... those that were included in a scope eons ago, but are sort of glossed over now... anyway, I can say from my own personal chart... it's a h@#$ of a point in my life... all the really wonderful things, and all the really awe-filled and overwhelming times have involved this point. Namaste -------------------- http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/panicbutton.html Namaste WV, Namaste ------------------------ Roxanne, I thought Cheney lived in his bunker? Is there something more going on? Is he moving Dubya in? Re Judge Souter - Daily Kos was careful to note he was not mugged, robbed... but assaulted... hospital would not give any details, only that injuries were minor... http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2004/05/01/national1202EDT0498.DTL
Sharon, hmmm...don't know if I like the idea of "the public having an affinity with Cheney around election time." Any factor which may help shrub makes me nervous. Posted by: Janet on May 2, 2004 02:07 AMSorry I forgot to post my name above... re vertex Janet, I don't like the idea of the public EVER having an affinity with Dick Cheney... NANCY! yes, that was a shout! Help... What's with this 'affinity' Maya is talking about... I don't like the sound of that at all... Peace Posted by: Jo on May 2, 2004 02:59 AMRoxanne - I f you look carefully, almost every aspect you have listed has passed its strength by more than one degree. Most of them are active in late October. The closest is the Jupiter trine to Venus, but even that is waning by the evening of the election. Posted by: Nancy on May 2, 2004 03:45 AMNancy, there's been a change in direction as you predicted with the Mercury station ending and tMercury now going Direct... this admin had sense enough to know the world was not going to stand for carpet bombing of Fallujah... there were not enough boots on the ground for the US military to win if they went in, so... they withdrew and installed an ex member of the Republican Guard... excellent piece on DailyKos.com recomment all check out... really interesting read... Fallujah was a defeat for the occupiers/coalition whatever you want to call us now... but a victory for humanity... yet again, further testimony to the blunder of going into Iraq in the first place. Nancy, you mentioned Naomi Klein's article above and her assessment that we need to call for a mutiny... this is a quote from DailyKos: "This deal was clearly made without the prior approval of the political types and now they are carping about it. Kimmit the Frog's remarks "I would suspect that the First Marine Expeditionary Force doesn't have access to all the background information on General Saleh,"is very very strange. And wasn't Kimmit transferred to CENTCOM, Florida last week? Saleh wearing the old Saddam era uniform and waving the old flag could not have happend without the approval of the local US commanders. Woodward's next expose could probabaly be the silent coup d'etat in Iraq by the fighting generals." What do you see Nancy for the chart on the invasion of Iraq... how does early 2005 look, as far as our presence there is concerned? Namaste Posted by: Jo on May 2, 2004 04:16 AMJo - Many thanks for the long post on the Vertex. I used it once about 25 years ago and then forgot all about it. So, it is a point of fate and generally beneficial. In the Inaugural 2005 chart it falls in the 6th house at 20Libra16 conjunct Jupiter at 18Libra37 and square Saturn at 23Cancer20. This chart is based on a swearing in of 12:02 PM. If the time is earlier, the Vertex would be a bit earlier, or later if later. Saturn will cross the square to the Vertex for Bush's Inaugural during the Dem Convention and early August (while Kerry is under very strong Jupiter). Depending on the very exact time of the Inauguration, Saturn could retro back to its station exactly square the Vertex for most of March 2005. The Saturn station is at 20Cancer23. So it could be quite exact or it could be not quite there at all if the swearing in is at 12:03. Assuming Kerry is president, those first months will be rough with Saturn on the US Mercury and possible square Inaugural Vertex. As I said long ago, I think Kerry's Saturn will come in very useful given the mess that will need to be cleaned up after Dumbo. Kerry will take it one step at a time and stay grounded, unlike our Space Chimp in Chief. Posted by: Nancy on May 2, 2004 04:17 AMP.S. to above link... read the comments also, they're as informative as the article. Peace Posted by: Jo on May 2, 2004 04:18 AMNancy, I have always used the vertex in every natal chart, although I have only used it for conjunctions to the vertex. The nature of the fated event or meeting would be of the nature of the planet conjuncting. T Posted by: Pallas18 on May 2, 2004 04:46 AMSharon, I had no idea there was an ephemeris for "Black Holes" or even that they had names. Miller Mignone's article was an eye opener. Thans. Posted by: Pallas18 on May 2, 2004 04:49 AMThe Bushies Grand Cross Debacle http://www.aquilaink.com/secretdiary109.html Posted by: JoannaOregon on May 2, 2004 05:08 AMJo - Have the neocons actually been totally trashed? I will believe that when Dub gives some real power to the UN and doesn't insist that we have charge of just about everything after 6/30. I think it will come to that, but I don't think it has yet. I think they see Fallujah as a victory becasue they didn't have to have a big battle and they are giving Iraqis some minimum control. Progressed MC in the war chart has now reached a one degree orb of opposite Saturn. This goes for a year and gets crossed by Pluto on the prog MC in December. That could be the final failure. Transiting Pluto crosses the war chart MC from 5/9 to 6/19 and really stays cloese to within orb or returns across through early November. Pluto conjunct the MC suggests powerful power struggles through through early November. Saturn conjunct prog IC could mean a very conservative, reactionary element among the people or some kind of repression. I am not really sure. But neither aspect bodes for love, peace, and happiness in the short run. And the Pluto suggests a powerful transformation that seeps in gradually but irrevocably through early November.
I agree the trash is not evident in Iraq yet, I was speaking of their extended agenda for empire. I too am waiting to see when they turn over complete power to UN... most pundits say that won't happen 'til we withdraw... I wanted to know about the attack chart to see if there is evidence for us pulling out, for change... I don't see peace coming with our withdrawal right away... I think one of your previous analysis pointed to that (calm, stability) about 2006. THanks for getting back to me... Namaste Posted by: Jo on May 2, 2004 05:35 AMYes,Jo, my tongue was firmly planted in my cheek. Reading you guys posts, gives me faith that wisdom can come with age, it's uplifting and very appreciated.All we see from people who are older is hunger for power, money and a return to youth. Thanks A delightful post, wv! ;O) Posted by: JoannaOregon on May 2, 2004 03:35 PMWV, nancy, i understand what you're saying about ralph's aspects, but to me that's a good thing: he wouldn't want them to start 'late' so who knows what can happen between now and then.. and we all believe what we do (ralph can win, ralph can't win, etc.) but does kerry have anything akin to what ralph has going during this time..now through election? and how about dennis..is he going to be active? might he be rebellious and angry, or adventurous .. and jump on ralph's ticket after the convention? and astrologically is there any indication of upheaval during this election process? that hasn't been addressed (for example we all knew with merc ret in 2000 something crazy would happen -- the ballot stuff)..i think it's a moot point that the gop is going down. right now it's just how...death? loss of face? etc...but what ABOUT the dems vs the new world...we've spoken how the american chart gets a breather, some have said it really is a change...is that change just the dems getting in or something more progressively radical? any indications? and where does ralph's early pisces sun fit into the inaugaration chart of 2005? and kerry's? as well as their jupiter's moon and mars (and venus & asc's)..i think it's a point that would be worth looking at for somebody, as we gloat and watch bush crash and burn.. Posted by: Roxanne on May 2, 2004 05:08 PMPallas - I am blown away. I just redid my US chart with the Vertex. It falls exactly on Bush's Saturn, the Saturn that will be having a Saturn return this fall. It falls at 26Cancer43. Since you have been usig the vertex, have you noted transits to it being significant? I would think this Saturn/Vertex transit implies fated events that force unwanted harsh reality (Saturn) onto the US consciousness. Again it is very much tied to Bush. And it is in the 8th house - death, taxes, investment, "other people's money". Pallas, any thoughts on interpreting this transit to the US chart? By the way, my own Vertex is conjunct Pluto in the 8th house - fated contacts through my psychotherapy work. Posted by: Nancy on May 2, 2004 05:15 PMRoxanne - At the moment, I think things could be pretty poorly in the US in the fall what with Saturn on US Mercury and now I find also on US Vertex. (Interesting the anti-Vertex conjuncts US Pluto). This is reflected in Bush's chart and the Inaugural chart with Saturn square his MC, semisquarehis mars, and conjunct his Saturn, also conjunct Inaugural IC. I can find no Saturn in Kerry's chart for that period. He also has extraordinary planets for the convention and the following week, so I see no reason to think he won't be nominated. I continue to think he will win, but the US will be kind of limping along so it may not be as joyful as we would like. Muted happiness, yes, but Dub will have left us a cesspool to clean up. Posted by: Nancy on May 2, 2004 05:34 PMGreat article Nancy. I know from following you for over the last few years, that you've been mentioning this moment for a long time, and we've all been waiting for Saturn, who never fails to be the Mighty Correction Officer of failed beings, to get here. Now, here we are, and Bush's moment has arrived. Posted by: Vis on May 2, 2004 05:39 PM"I would think this Saturn/Vertex transit implies fated events that force unwanted harsh reality (Saturn) onto the US consciousness." That pretty much sums up the events that have transpired from the private contractors overseeing our military, who instituted the torture chambers in Iraq. I mean, I am pretty thick, but I am totally repulsed. Posted by: Vis on May 2, 2004 05:41 PMastrodienst (see right-hand side-bar) calculates the vertex Posted by: shylurker on May 2, 2004 06:36 PMPluto exposes the ubiquitous sexual/torture patterns "hidden" in the White-Hatted, Always-the-Good-Guy, US/UK undersoul. How exactly right in symbology. Posted by: JoannaOregon on May 2, 2004 06:39 PMHadn't heard this story before - iraq's brain drain by assassination. The US certainly has brought 'freedom' Any thoughts from anyone on the Congressional/Senatorial components of this election cycle? If Kerry were to win, I would not put it past the current house to launch immediate investigations and attempts to impeach him and/or a complete block to his cabinet in the Senate. Right now, I am either speaking from a bit of intuition and a bit of paranoia. I wonder if there is any astrological evidence to support my feelings. Posted by: Kristine on May 2, 2004 08:45 PMKristine, After the failure of the Bush Administration and the American People's rejection of him, it would be difficult for the House or Senate, even in Republican hands, to launch immediate investigations or start fishing for Articles of Impeachment. I believe the American People will begin waking up during this Election and, once awake, may not stand for the Open Ended Fishing that the Repugs did during the Clinton Years. Jonathan Posted by: Jonathan on May 2, 2004 11:49 PMKristine, Jonathan: don;t put anything past this republican congress, Which brings up the point, while we are focusing on the presidential race, what is so important is the congressional races..that House of Reps has to be turned democrat or at least independent in order of this country to get upright again. Posted by: Pallas18 on May 3, 2004 04:25 AMNancy, Smiling. Just think of all you've missed over the years by not putting that vertex in the chart First two things I look at are the vertex and the nodes. But try turning this around: "Pallas - I am blown away. I just redid my US chart with the Vertex. It falls exactly on Bush's Saturn," look at Bush's Saturn conjunct the USA vertex. Karma and not a good one either. Eighth house. w Doesn't Bush's natal Saturn come from the 12th house? oop. this is blow after blow. I think you should double check the exact aspects of everything to come in the fall at the exact time dimson's Saturn is exact on the vertex. Do a tri=wheel. see if any eclipse points are being activated past, or future. You ma y have just found a date that you do not know you found. As far as your vertex in the 8th conj Pluto...well that's pretty sexy, but I think it doesn't just concern your psychotherapy clients. Although if you do have a client whose Mars or Uranus falls on that vertex conjunct Pluto, get rid of him. Have you checked your husband's chart in relation to that vertex? Aaaaaand. Now that you have your vertex, you might go through and check other people's charts against your vertex and find other reasons than you may have thought for their having been in your life. I always look at other people's charts with mine in relation to the vertex and the nodes. It's a quick check on whether this is a past life relationship or not. I'd say dimson has a very heavy past life with this country. And does his father have a planet at the same degree of the US vertex? The plot thickens, eh what! Interesting, isn't it ? smiling again. Posted by: Pallas18 on May 3, 2004 04:45 AMOK. Interesting comments on the vertex. I just checked my small database of charts and noticed that JFK also had Saturn conjunct the USA vertex. RFK had the North Node conjunct USA vertex along with the Moon sitting on his South Node opposite the vertex. Everything I've been reading suggests those pictures of the humiliation and torture of Iraqi prisoners are the straw the broke the camel's back. The thing is, as horrible as those pictures are, they are not an aberration, they are in fact perhaps the best images that sum up the whole war. Some sculptor ought to do a bronze based on those pictures and put it up on the mall in D.C. as the Iraqi War Memorial. They ought to unveil it to a chorus of "God Bless America." The shame of it.... Does anyone still think we still ought to "stay the course" now? Will the Iraqi people ever get over this and accept us as "liberators?" How absurd... Posted by: Timothy on May 3, 2004 05:13 AMJFK had Mars conjunct the vertex on the 8th house cusp. On 11/22/1963 Saturn was square that Mars/vertex conjunction. Posted by: Timothy on May 3, 2004 05:18 AM"VOTERS FIND BUSH MORE COMPASSIONATE, COMPATIBLE, LIKEABLE THAN KERRY" http://abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/US/bush_kerry_likeability_poll_040502.html How can any American still be in a Bush coma? or am I living in a parallel universe. Poll above first gives date of April 18th and then end paragraph gives date of April 25-26 taken by telephone. I wouldn't put too much stock on a poll about likeability... they're trying to do the "Gore's too stiff" routine again. Bush has charm, a prerequisite for a sociopath. So? Just wait 'til the tide comes in and they discover what lies on the shore... and lies, and lies, and lies. Namaste Sociopath is right, Jo. A friend sent me a blog showing 3 photos of Bush rubbing the head of a bald guy (3 different men) in a public, presidential appearance situation. Also you probably have read about Bush in the tv studio reaching over and cleaning his glasses on a woman's sweater without saying a word to her. Small things maybe but all the more indicative of seeing other people as objects--not understanding his own boundaries, etc. The man is devoid of empathy. There are many sociopaths leading what looks like from the outside "normal" lives. As long as someone like Bush is protected by influence and has no bizarre appetites, he will stay out of jail. Of course, people like those on this site think that Bush's appetite for power is bizarre, but that is sanctioned by our society, more's the pity. Posted by: Barbara on May 3, 2004 01:21 PMWell, Iam a little blown away myself.Decided I would do chart with the vertex in it and like Nancy found it to fall at 26 cancer on the Bush Saturn but also decided to put in the part of fortune.So where does the part of fortune fall in the US chart. You guessed it 26cancer12minutes just three minutes of arc from the vertex. Some of us don't have to wait 'til the fall... you feel it now? The veils are falling and we can see shadows... I'm innundated now, and I know intellectually that this administration is ... evil? Can I say that? How 'bout the folks who don't have a clue? I'm sick to my stomach with all that is coming out about the abuse... I've watched the pictures and read the words coming from the Arab media all year... at least what we were allowed to see... with regard to the wounded children and civilians... not to mention the reporters 'killed'... do you remember another time when reporters were killed, except in a foxhole? How 'bout the rape of our country, our treasury, the deficit, medicare, the wounded veterans... now comes news women will be drafted, age moved up from 25 to 34... no protests allowed... six-year old in the White House directing the world... driven Sec'y of Defense who has never seen war first hand, directing the slaughter... lies, lies, and more lies... and you tell me it's going to get worse...? the veils are coming completely off... and we are exposed to the world with no apparent humanity? A collective whose chart shows it to be militant, greedy, self absorbed, self righteous, intolerant... karma coming in tsunami-like waves? With a leader whose karma ties in with the collective? And my energy was drawn here, is here... what says that about me? and you? Collective is apparently polarized, or so we are told... a house divided cannot stand, or so we are told... Progressions... somebody talk about that for a moment. I don't have any astrological software, but I calculate pASC in USA chart is either just leaving Cancer, or has already moved into Leo... help me out here... I've asked this question before and it got lost in the shuffle I guess, but can we look at the progressions in the USA chart as transformation in the collective as we do in the individual? In other words, [I'm a student remember] I thought transits reveal the possibility of something external while progressions reveal something internal transpiring... so that if both transits and progressions point to same aspect, there's pretty clear affirmation for possibility... So, what is going on in our progressed chart? Could we collectively we headed for a 'nervous breakdown' --- or, are we having it? Namaste Posted by: Jo on May 3, 2004 02:49 PM to Roxanne and others about the american coma hi mimi...thanks for the invite to your office, but i pray to the Lord quite a bit since 1991 to keep satan out of my life..and he really does/has - i think that bush has the POTENTIAL (astrologically, as well as, well, LOGICALLY), to lose by a landslide, and as i said above, since the GOP astro chart is in such dire trouble, having nader in the white house is much more a threat to repugs than dems, since he is totally anti-corporate, anti-war, pro-environment, etc... Bear in mind also, that there is no way Kerry can face the Bu$h $180 million "re"- election warchest head on. (here I go about the media again) All of you that think Kerry is an a*****e are falling for it. How can you know what you know about Bu$h and still think this way? Kerry hasn't said anything ~ and you still slam him? Why is that? Really? People that I've talked to that have really studied Kerry's record don't slam him. They actually respect him. What is Kerry's plan? To let Bu$h burn through some of that re-election money. Do you know how much April cost Bu$h in bad news? Like $50 million dollars. That's right. He had to burn through *that* much money after all the bad news to keep the perception that he's "the man to beat" and Kerry is "uncharismatic." Fifty~freakin'~million dollars dropped into the media and the right-wing echo chamber to make you STILL think Senator three~purple~hearts is an a*****e. You think Kerry doesn't want to defend himself? You think he has nothing to say? Of course, that's just my opinion. ~D Posted by: Dommael on May 3, 2004 05:29 PMYou're right on with that post Mimi! I'm not even sure why any sane person would miss these obvious facts at this point. You must be a very patient woman to work with Fox watching gun lovers. They must have some other endearing points! :-D)) Posted by: Pat on May 3, 2004 05:30 PMDommael, I am at this point wondering what people are getting from slamming Kerry. If it didn't feel good, perhaps they would stop. Posted by: Pat on May 3, 2004 05:32 PMMimi, I admire your courage and stamina. Keep up the righteous work! Posted by: shylurker on May 3, 2004 06:02 PMChas - By my calculation, the US Pluto is at 27Cap33. The progressed Node at 26Cancer58 is therefore past Pluto, since the Node moves backward through the signs. Nonetheless, we do have this incredible lineup of Saturn hitting the US Mercury, prog Node, vertex, part of fortune, and opposing Pluto all during the election cycle. I continue to think big problems will come to the country as this configuration unravels, and Bush will lose more than Kerry will win. And Kerry won't win a great prize either, but a sh*tload of work to clean up the mess. Progressed US Venus will be square natal Saturn for most of 2005. Venus rules the MC and the 6th house - reputation and employment issues. It could signal a severe recession thanks to Dumbo's policies. Posted by: Nancy on May 3, 2004 06:06 PMRegarding the Re-election Financial War Chest Bush has, it made me think of the unveiling of the New Coke several years back. Tons of money spent, huge media blitz, a lot of thought and talent going into it ... and the American people rejected it. Having a ton of money doesn't guarantee anything. It's the "product" Bush and Co. will have to sell, and the American people may not be ready to buy it again. Jonathan Posted by: Jonathan on May 3, 2004 06:38 PMChas said [ Chas: Well, I am a little blown away myself. Decided I would do chart with the vertex in it and like Nancy found it to fall at 26 cancer on the Bush Saturn but also decided to put in the part of fortune.So where does the part of fortune fall in the US chart. You guessed it 26cancer12minutes just three minutes of arc from the vertex. So now we have the progressed north node of the US Sibly chart at 26 cancer conjunct the natal vertex and part of fortune all opposite the natal US pluto at 27 Capricorn. When you have Saturn opposition Pluto (by itself) you would usually delineate it as a destructive force. A crumbling of structure. When you have Bush's Saturn, and anybody's Saturn carries the nature of Karma, on the US Fortuna and Vertex you know that this person is not going to be beneficial to the U.S. Where the Vertex is it is kismet, a fated experience or meeting or happening. The point of the Vertex in the chart is where there is no control, fate, destiny; and Bush's natal Saturn with the Vertex doubles the indication of karmic events. ["the the progressed north node of the US Sibly chart at 26 cancer conjunct the natal vertex and part of fortune (are) all opposite the natal US pluto at 27 Capricorn.What does it all mean?"] Well, now we know according to Chas that this progression of the US North Node which is a point that confers benefit, is conjuncting US Fortuna and Vertex, all at the same point and are all being restricted and undergoing Bush's Saturn. We might call Bush's Saturn the "grim reaper" for all that is beneficial in the United States, but it is still a Karmic situation. Bush is quite right. He's not in the WH by accident. The natal US Pluto is opposite this sorry stellium, and US natal Pluto also conjoins the Progressed South Node, and the natal Anti-Vertex. The current buzzword you hear used so often is "transparency". All that this government has done and losses it has caused will likely be exposed and become very clear at the time as transiting Saturn, and Bush's Saturn return , station on the US Vertex, Fortuna, and p North Node which are opposed by US natal Pluto conjuncting progressed South Node. Bush's Saturn return with his natal Saturn conjoining the US Vertex, Part of Fortune and North Node will probably feel and look like "collapse" of this country.
Chas said [ Chas: Well, I am a little blown away myself. Decided I would do chart with the vertex in it and like Nancy found it to fall at 26 cancer on the Bush Saturn but also decided to put in the part of fortune.So where does the part of fortune fall in the US chart. You guessed it 26cancer12minutes just three minutes of arc from the vertex. So now we have the progressed north node of the US Sibly chart at 26 cancer conjunct the natal vertex and part of fortune all opposite the natal US pluto at 27 Capricorn. When you have Saturn opposition Pluto (by itself) you would usually delineate it as a destructive force. A crumbling of structure. When you have Bush's Saturn, and anybody's Saturn carries the nature of Karma, on the US Fortuna and Vertex you know that this person is not going to be beneficial to the U.S. Where the Vertex is it is kismet, a fated experience or meeting or happening. The point of the Vertex in the chart is where there is no control, fate, destiny; and Bush's natal Saturn with the Vertex doubles the indication of karmic events. ["the the progressed north node of the US Sibly chart at 26 cancer conjunct the natal vertex and part of fortune (are) all opposite the natal US pluto at 27 Capricorn.What does it all mean?"] Well, now we know according to Chas that this progression of the US North Node which is a point that confers benefit, is conjuncting US Fortuna and Vertex, all at the same point and are all being restricted and undergoing Bush's Saturn. We might call Bush's Saturn the "grim reaper" for all that is beneficial in the United States, but it is still a Karmic situation. Bush is quite right. He's not in the WH by accident. The natal US Pluto is opposite this sorry stellium, and US natal Pluto also conjoins the Progressed South Node, and the natal Anti-Vertex. The current buzzword you hear used so often is "transparency". All that this government has done and losses it has caused will likely be exposed and become very clear at the time as transiting Saturn, and Bush's Saturn return , station on the US Vertex, Fortuna, and p North Node which are opposed by US natal Pluto conjuncting progressed South Node. Bush's Saturn return with his natal Saturn conjoining the US Vertex, Part of Fortune and North Node will probably feel and look like "collapse" of this country. It appears to me that this is going to be a time of "reaping" not only our recent actions but the actions of past administrations also. The eclipse of October 28 which hits Bush's natal MC relocated to Wash. DC
Timothy said: ["RFK had the North Node conjunct USA vertex along with the Moon sitting on his South Node opposite the vertex."] That's a really interesting observation. RFK was beneficial to this country in pushing through legislation and in the Civil Rights movement - the North Node Vertex association, but at earlier times in his life he also assisted Joseph McCarthy in the communist witchhunts of the 50's which were so detrimental and opposite to all this country supposedly embodied. If RFK's Moon/South Node were on the Anti-Vertex of the USA, that makes it Moon, South Node, conjunct USA natal Anti-Vertex/Pluto. In retrospect it would be another interesting chart to study with the new implications of Karmic ties. Moon, Nodes and Vertex are ultra indicative of Karma. Very little has been done as far as literature on Vertex and Nodes delineations and it's a subject in astrology that could use a lot more exploration . hey dom! no one is really slamming kerry...but why did he say last week he 'takes back' what he said about the viet nam war atrocities?????? and why did he vote for this war, and why is he saying we need to stay in? there is no winning in iraq, no way, no how..so you either: 1. lose face or you pull out and just 1. lose face which is better? this is what makes kerry a politician and how a politician is not of these recent times for-the-people...there is no sense, just protocal...yuk Posted by: Roxanne on May 3, 2004 07:20 PMPallas 18, Now, will someone address the second part of my post above and talk about progressions? There are still more than 1/2 of us in this collective dimly aware, and there is of course, the whole world... we're not going to 'collapse' into 'no thing'... Nancy's right... Kerry is going to have a s*#^load to clean up... we'll be there to help... USA nPluto Rx falls exactly on my nVertex... but hey, it's been there... question is... what do I do besides pray, send light... I'll wager everyone of you drawn to this board connects in some way also... heck Morgana and Shylurker and I are triplets, right!? No kidding... we're all connected... tMoon is waxing... time to increase light and prayers... Buddha prayer flags are waving in the breeze... Christ essence is hovering... Blessed be Peace Posted by: Jo on May 3, 2004 07:23 PMbbuster, your conclusions are utterly wrong, dammit! Not me Whoa, Pallas 18 --- You comment above: I'd be interested to know where you picked up that little gem? A conservative site? Well, I have a source that says: "...In 1950, Robert Kennedy married Ethel Skakel of Greenwich, Connecticut, daughter of Ann Brannack Skakel and George Skakel, founder of Great Lakes Carbon Corporation. Robert and Ethel Kennedy later had eleven children. In 1952, he made his political debut as manager of his older brother John's successful campaign for the U.S. Senate from Massachusetts. The following year, he served briefly on the staff of the Senate Subcommittee on Investigations, chaired by Senator Joseph McCarthy. Kennedy's investigative work confirmed reports that countries allied with the United States against Communist China in the Korean War were also shipping goods to Communist China, but did not imply, as Senator McCarthy often did, that traitors were making American foreign policy. Disturbed by McCarthy's controversial tactics, Kennedy resigned from the staff after six months. He later returned to the Senate Subcommittee on Investigations as chief counsel for the Democratic minority, in which capacity he wrote a report condemning McCarthy's investigation of alleged Communists in the Army. His later work as chief counsel for the Senate Rackets Committee investigating corruption in trade unions won him national recognition for his investigations of Teamsters Union leaders Jimmy Hoffa and David Beck." http://www.rfkmemorial.org/RFK/index.htm Okay, that's my bias... I don't believe RFK engaged in McCarthy's 'witchhunts'... RFK's record as atty gen: "...Attorney General Kennedy launched a successful drive against organized crime - convictions against organized crime figures rose by 800% during his tenure - and became increasingly committed to the rights of African Americans to vote, attend school and use public accommodations. He demonstrated his commitment to civil rights during a 1961 speech at the University of Georgia Law School: "We will not stand by or be aloof. We will move. I happen to believe that the 1954 [Supreme Court school desegregation] decision was right. But my belief does not matter. It is the law. Some of you may believe the decision was wrong. That does not matter. It is the law." Peace
Raj, why are you so angry? Roxanne ~ This is just my personal opinion~ the news is so frikkin' frikkin' distorted it's hard to get ANY sort of an accurate read on the issues or the people involved. All of those points you've mentioned I've read countless fact~by~fact rebuttals posted by Bughead1 and Shadowthief over at Smirking Chimp. This war isn't to win over the hearts and minds of Iraqi's ~ it's to wind the hearts and minds of Americans. Check it out. These torture pictures ~ this stuff actually happened in December, right? Bu$h just had a frikkin' press conference ~ it would have been a great time to bring this stuff up. It just reinforces the *time lag* that happens between the instigation of events and our hearing about them. The Iraqis sure knew what was going on ~ and they responded with Fallujah. Who knows what the heck the people in power know! And I just realized the release of these pics was timed to coincide with the one year anniversary of Junior's Folly ~ that "Mission Accomplished" USS Lincoln photo op. Is that a coincidence? How could it be? Maybe we ARE being played for fools. I read months and months ago that Bu$h, having served his purpose, was going to be removed from power by the very people that put him there in the first place. It sounded ludicrous at the time. You know how Native Americans used to freak out the tatonka by lighting fires and hollaring and weirding out the buffalo into running over a cliff? That is exactly how the media is being used in this country. We're all dolphins and the rich folk have a creation to jam our sonar that is SO sophisticated we don't even REALIZE that it's there or HOW effective it is. I don't know enough about Kerry or Nader to go round to round about them. I do know that under Bu$h's reign, we're all fucked ('scuse me.) Bu$h is the MAFIA. Make no mistake about it. So is Fat Tony Scalia in the Supremes. When they are thoroughly destroyed (politically) THEN we can fine tune the system. Until then, Bu$h is like one of those snakes that plays dead. They have NO scruples. They have NO ethics. They have NO conscience. And just when they look thoroughly defeated, expect to get bitten and to have to deal with the poison. I'm telling you, they are too dangerous for Nader to be involved right now. And again, Nader is a loner. The system is still set up so that the legislative and executive branches have to work together. If Nader was in power it would be a deadlock and extreme measures would have to be taken to rectify it. Extreme measures mean the Neocons have yet another opportunity to step in and use their lies, money and influence to throw the game in their favor. Think about the effect of the media ~ for years and years and years the air has been filled with lies. Companies lie and exaggerate to sell their product and the public accepts that's the way it goes and that it's okay to lie and stretch the truth to make your point. Well, now the lie has replaced everything else. It saturates your brain everywhere you look. There is only one perspective I use to judge politics in America in 2004. Through the media. And maybe that's my personal folly. The media is a weapon. It's the weapon of choice in the game of power. September 11th didn't lead to Iraq. Bu$h and the media whores led to Iraq. Releasing torture photos just ENSURED a future of chaos and bloodletting for generations. The arab nations aren't going to forget about Bu$h and the latest for a loooooooong time. Is Nader a crook? Is Kerry a crook? Who the hell knows for sure. Is Bu$h a crook? No. Bu$h is the MAFIA. He's WAY beyond crookedness. This much I am sure of. I never take my eyes off the gun. That gun is the media. All I know for sure at this point is that $180 million is being aimed right at me to make me think Kerry is an a*****e. This gives me pause. Nader does not have this liability. On the contrary, Nader's is getting $$$ FROM THE REPUBLICAN PARY!!! This gives me MAJOR pause. Nader is a threat. This is all very dramatic language I know, but that's my read on things. I've never been in a war. Kerry has. Dude was wounded in combat. Look up the records for those purple hearts. It is hardcore. I have to think some experiences supercede politics. You think Kerry doesn't know those options you listed, Roxanne? I think he does. I think he knows better than anyone. He also may have an ear to some breaking news we have no idea about. You can't look at things directly anymore. The media distorts your perception too much. Is Kerry a flip-flopper? Maybe he's having to counter slurs before they even make it to our ears. We have to assume there are a million unknown influencing factors we never, ever know about trying to kill Kerry's position every second of every day right up into the election. That's the American media for you. I can't get past the point that the Republicans WANT me to support Nader and slam Kerry. Can you? Namaste, peace and love, ~D Posted by: Dommael on May 3, 2004 08:46 PMJeanie, Thing is, I'll take a "flip-flopper" over a "Flopper" anytime. Posted by: sharon on May 3, 2004 09:00 PMHi Raj, All I'm trying to say is we are all in this together, each trying in our own little way to make a difference to improve the world. Blessings, love, and peace be with you. Jeanie Posted by: Jeanie on May 3, 2004 09:03 PMMan, you can just feel the love around here today, can't you? Posted by: Dommael on May 3, 2004 09:18 PMhttp://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/03/business/media/03BROC.html?th New Internet Site Turns Critical Eyes and Ears to the Right David Brock, the former right-wing journalist turned liberal, describes himself as once having been a rather large cog in the machinery of the conservative media. Now Mr. Brock is starting a new endeavor built to combat the very sector of journalism that spawned him, with support from the same sorts of people (Democrats) about whom he once wrote so critically. With more than $2 million in donations from wealthy liberals, Mr. Brock will start a new Internet site this week that he says will monitor the conservative media and correct erroneous assertions in real time. The site, called Media Matters, was devised as part of a larger media apparatus being built by liberals to combat what they say is the overwhelming influence of conservative commentators like Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly. Mr. Brock's project was developed with help from the newly formed Center for American Progress, the policy group headed by John D. Podesta, the former Clinton chief of staff. And Mr. Brock said he hoped it could help provide fodder for fledgling liberal radio talk shows being started across the country, including those of the comedians Al Franken and Janeane Garofalo. For Mr. Brock, 41, the project is yet another considerable step in his public evolution from conservative muckraker to liberal activist. That evolution began after Mr. Brock began publicly apologizing in the late 1990's for reporting that brutally criticized Anita F. Hill and a report that Arkansas state troopers had helped Bill Clinton procure paramours when he was the governor of Arkansas, the veracity of which he is no longer sure. Mr. Brock has also said that he knowingly lied in an article he wrote for The American Spectator in 1992 that raised doubts about the credibility of Ms. Hill. The article formed the basis for a later book about Ms. Hill, whose charges of harassment almost derailed Clarence Thomas's appointment to the Supreme Court. Mr. Brock said he hoped his new project could be as influential as the Media Research Center, a conservative media monitoring group run by L. Brent Bozell III that frequently calls attention to what it calls examples of liberal bias in the news media. Its findings often become subjects for conservative radio and cable talk shows. Mr. Brock argued that such monitoring groups have helped build the conservative media's influence, in part by making mainstream journalists toe a more conservative line by convincing them that they are liberally biased. "The right wing in this country has dominated the debate over liberal bias," Mr. Brock said during an interview Friday. "By dominating that debate, my belief is they've moved the media itself to the right and therefore they've moved American politics to the right." He added, "I wanted to create an institution to combat what they're doing." More.... Posted by: on May 3, 2004 09:21 PMActually if you feel the love all around today, it has been the leftover love since 4/29, as I read that post only today! Posted by: Raj on May 3, 2004 09:23 PMThis morning I was wondering if there were "new age" islamists in the middle east, as there have evolved from christians in the west. Lo and behold I just came across this from Juan Cole on today's webpage. "As Washington seems incapable of conceiving, the Baath Party is secular, and in Syria it is largely Alawi (think New Age Shiite) in character, and has crushed Sunni radicalism relentlessly." Puts another element into the fundy neotheocon's desire to go into Syria and desire for perpetual chaos in the middle east, and thus justification for control of the masses. Gawd, just think if the New Age Islamists and the New Age Americans actually saw eye to eye! Horrifying!~;-) Posted by: Dommael on May 3, 2004 09:33 PMYesterday I was in a bookstore and read part of John Dean's book "Worse than Watergate" - the portion on how Bush lied to Congress about Iraq, how he lied them into giving Resolution and how he lied about his intent to come back later and outline reasons he had to invade, if he felt he had to... he sent Congress a letter as required, 48 hours before the invasion, but the letter stipulated 'nothing'... hence, John Dean contends Bush's lies and failure to comply with the law is an impeachable offense of the highest degree... there are numerous other instances of impeachable offenses - but we won't see them of course with this Repug controlled Congress. I turned to Crisis Papers.org today to see what's going on and found a piece by Ernest Partridge slamming those in the left who are slamming Kerry (with friends like that, Kerry doesn't need any enemies, right?). Here's a portion of his piece, which is long, but hey, there have been numerous long posts today pro and con Kerry/Nader, so I figure why not: "...Kerry's votes on the Iraq War resolution and the Patriot Act can not be excused. However, we might acknowledge mitigating circumstances. Remember that only one Senator, Wisconsin's Russ Feingold, voted against the Patriot Act -- a 352 page behemoth, dumped on the Senators' desks mere hours before the vote. While Kerry was wrong to vote for it, he was joined in this error by Ted Kennedy, Paul Wellstone, and every other Democratic senator except Feingold -- who, by the way, I'd be delighted to find on the Democratic ticket. As for the Iraq resolution, Kerry voted for it, along with half the Democratic senators because, to put it bluntly, the Senate was lied to by Bush, Cheney, and the Republican senate leaders. And because lying to Congress is an impeachable offense, the Democratic senators might well have been excused at the time for assuming that the President wouldn't dare lie to them. By now, of course, they know better. "Fool me twice, shame on me!" Furthermore, "The Iraq War Resolution" is a misnomer. This was not a vote to go to war with Iraq. It was, instead, an agreement to sanction a war only if the Administration submitted a formal "determination" that the president had found that (1) further diplomatic means alone would not resolve the "continuing threat" (meaning WMD) and (2) the military action was part of the overall response to terrorism, including dealing with those involved in "the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001. (John Dean's summary, in Worse than Watergate, 148). The "determination" that Bush presented to Congress at the outbreak of the war was a travesty (as John Dean lucidly points out -- pp. 140-156, op cit). Moreover, as subsequent events and investigations have proven, both enabling conditions of the administration's formal declaration were flatly false. The Senate was shamelessly manipulated into approving that resolution. It was wrong for Kerry and the others to vote for that resolution. But the greater offense, by far, falls upon Bush and his henchmen in the Senate. I have endeavored above to defend Kerry's congressional voting record or, failing that, to mitigate the gravity of his acknowledged errors. While this is a good record, it contains some glaring flaws. But it is a mistake to assess a politician solely on his record, and still worse to condemn him on the basis of a "cherry-picked" list of his worse legislative errors. Far more important, though impossible to quantify, is the measure of the person himself: the intellectual and moral qualities that he might bring to the office. And by these criteria, there is simply no comparison between the candidates. Anyone who doubts the intelligence and eloquence, and the moral insight and substance of John Kerry should watch his 1971 testimony to Congress, available at the DemocracyNow website. These are his own words -- there were no ghost-writers. Many disparage Kerry for his wealth and class status. But it is surely a measure of his character that, despite these advantages, he volunteered for service in Viet Nam, where he displayed extraordinary leadership and courage, as testified to by his combat decorations. But in addition to his undoubted physical courage, he exemplified great moral courage as he stepped forward to lead the Viet Nam veterans' protest against the war. In contrast, as we all know, George Bush took refuge in the "champaign squadron" of the Air National Guard, from which to took early and unauthorized leave, and ever since has covered up and lied to evade the consequences of this offense. Kerry is also a proven winner. After losing his first run for political office in 1972, Kerry has triumphed in every successive political race that he has entered. As an experienced politician, and a principled and intelligent individual, Kerry, unlike Bush, will be receptive to contrary opinions, persuaded by expert opinion and scientific evidence, and open to reasoned argument. There will be an end, at last, to government by dogma, hunch, "gut," and pay-off. This is an individual with solid experience and with outstanding intellectual and moral qualities. We are fortunate to have such a man running in opposition to the disastrous regime that was imposed upon us in 2000. While there are several individuals that I would have preferred to find at the head of the Democratic ticket in November, I will enthusiastically support and vote for John Kerry. He is unquestionably the better candidate. If he does no more than apply the brakes on the runaway train that Bush has set in motion -- running over our civil liberties and heading straight for a economic precipice -- then Kerry will have earned his place in history. Early in his life, Kerry displayed the intellectual and moral qualities that could make him a great president -- qualities which, of late, have sadly been less in evidence. Somewhere inside the too-smooth politician of today, is the courageous 27 year old who testified so eloquently to the Senate Committee in 1971. Should Kerry win in November, he will head a party and preside over a nation that has moved decidedly to the right during the past few decades. A Kerry election will be a battle won in an ongoing political war. The struggle must continue, as progressives put constant pressure on the President, elect liberal members to Congress, and work diligently to recapture the Democratic party, just as the radical right took over the GOP following the defeat of Goldwater in 1964. In view of the alternative, I find it impossible to comprehend how anyone of a progressive mind could even think of sitting out this election." http://crisispapers.org/essays/dimes-worth.htm So people, isn't it time we faulted Bush for his failures, his lies, his incompetance? And isn't it time we actually go to Kerry's website and read what his positions are and if we don't like 'em, by heck email him and tell him so, but quit tearing him down and making Rove happy. The alternative is four more years of Bush... Roxanne, it's wonderful that you support Nader. I'm sure you can cast your vote for him and believe you are doing the 'right' thing. I'm also sure that if you vote for him and Bush wins, you can pick up your bags and family and leave the country. The rest of us either can't or choose not to --- so think about that next time you speak for Nader hoping to influence others here. Are you prepared to take the consequences of your actions if you aid Nader in defeating Kerry? That is stay here, like the rest of us and endure. If not, you might want to discontinue the proselytizing here, as most of us don't share your rationale. ;-) Nader is, IMHO, a wonder advocate... but he is not a politician. Now not all politicians are evil. Politics is negotiation, the power of persuasion... what we must do is clean up and perhaps change the system... but we will still need 'politicians'. IMHO ;-) Namaste Thinking a lot lately about the power of language and about a particular word – war - so I looked up the definition: a) a state of hostility, conflict, or antagonism b) a struggle or competition between opposing forces or for a particular end. We say we want peace. Yet we are at war. But we aren’t only using tanks, IEDs , or mortars. It’s being done with thoughts, words and emotions. It has become O.K. in our society to be in attack mode when opposing someone or their ideas or beliefs. (Us vs. them mode. Good, bad. Polarity.) It seems that we have gradually become desensitized and it’s acceptable to take the lower ground instead of the higher one. I’ve come up with a phrase for many of the shows on a particular cable channel . Instead of fair and balanced I call their reporting “sneer and biased” – an attitude which seems to have become increasingly pervasive in all media, including blogs of all persuasions. We become the consciousness of what we experience. So at what level are our words vibrating? In the book, “Power vs. Force”, Dr. David R. Hawkins, M.D., Ph.D., presents years of research in which he maps levels of human consciousness by assigning vibrational energy values to different emotions. Apathy is calibrated at 50; Fear is calibrated at 100; Anger at 150; Love at 500; Peace at 600. … “Calibrations don’t represent an arithmetic but logarithmic progression: the level 300 is not twice the amplitude of 150; it is 10 to the 300th power (10300th). So an increase of just a few points represents a major advance in power.” Based on his research, Dr. Hawkins states that ONE person vibrating at level 500 (Love) can counter-balance 750,000 people of a lower vibration! And one person vibrating at level 700 can raise the consciousness of 70 million people! Each time one person shifts into a higher state of awareness, even if only a few points, it affects larger and larger numbers of people. How do we know whether our prayers are working. It’s called faith. Faith in God, a higher power. A belief that everything is in divine law and order. We only have a small part of the picture. Just last week it was thought that there would be an all out assault on Fallaujah. And then, all of a sudden things changed. We can bring heat to a situation or light. We have a powerful full moon eclipse Tues, May 4th. It’s said that when something is put into motion at the full moon it manifests quickly. Let’s catch the cycle. Let’s align with the power of love. The power of peace. The power of light.
Keep saying those prayers and sending light. It’s not the only thing we do, but it may be the most important thing we do. Peace, Jaycee you rock! Maybe Kerry is playing his cards very close to his chest until he says he's a definite candinate. With the Cabal they'd take any of his ideas and ruin it, so maybe Kerry is waiting for them to burn through the Cabal funds and hang themselves further. Just a feeling. Mimi, I heard a comedianne say that when guys start making abortion an issue (excuse) to say, 'if you don't own a uterus, stay out of it'. Posted by: bhakti on May 3, 2004 10:13 PMI just finished listening to Wayne Dyer's recordings from "The Power of Intention" and was hit between the eyes with the clarity of this statement. Thanks for your post Jo emphasising the vibrational importance of love - we certainly need to change the way we record history from henceforth. And that includes electing intelligent international politicians who have the diplomatic abilities to build consensus between nations. Sorry Jaycee, I should have referenced you regarding Hawkins comments in my above statement. Posted by: Jeanie on May 3, 2004 10:23 PM
http://www.yellowtimes.org/print.php?sid=1907 Posted by: wv on May 3, 2004 10:25 PMps it's a Full moon Eclipse. Can you feel it? People are losing it today. A huge tidal wave of truth. Painful to awaken. It is the height (or low) of illusion that someone grand and glorious will 'save' us a country or even our souls. Eclipses are a dangerous time of erratic energy a time to lay low, not take rash actions. Peace everyone Posted by: bhakti on May 3, 2004 10:30 PMdom, y'know i agree with you probably 92 per cent!!! but you didn't even ponder my scenario...that the gop is so (astrologically and logically) on the wrong course that they may very well put nader into office as the biggest blunder crooks in general could make? if diebold is fixing machines, and it's all going like that behind-the-scenes, i think it's all we can PRAY for is an accident like this to happen...sure they're going to put ralph on the ballot in 50 states, sure they're going to make diebold give him votes, sure they might get him on the debates....but if they do that last thing? he is in, and anyone who has been to one of his rallys in 2000 will tell you that. and jo, i know what you mean...but we have no money, a tiny savings, a disabled baby, but yes we have a few thousand bucks to move to prague if need be, and i have a lot of friends there. the thing is it would be harder for me who doesn't even own a home, to get up and move country than it would for most people, but i'll do it, sure.. but please listen to me, so that you understand me clearly, if it's october and bush is not below 40 per cent approval of course i will vote for kerry, and i will be calling naders office in washington to request that he drop out. and i would hope that he does. but i cannot help but feel that the CRAZY INSANE way our country has been going since the clinton era, that i wouldn't be surprised if nader actually gets in! the thing about republican money is a strange thing, you can have principles, but then where do you cross the line of being a silly martyr? i hate rap music for example, think it's negative, annoying, etc...but if some music mogul came up to me with money to make a record, (and he got this money from sales of a rap record), am i really going to say no because it's from bad money????? of course not, i'm going to grab that cash and run into the studio and make a somewhat intelligent album, (i hope)..and that's the way i view ralph...if the repugs are going to give platform to someone pro-common sense, because THEY think he can't win, i say take it and use it and get our americans together to end this destructive terrible repub/dem divide! this divide can only lead to a critical mass of violence in our country..and dom i do disagree with you heartily about gridlock...ralph will have the whole country including washington in a capra style spirit..it would be our last hurrah before being blown off the map by the fundys and i think it would be better to go out on that note, than the current similar one... Posted by: Roxanne on May 3, 2004 10:31 PMWhile we're wasting all this time and communication space to argue about Nader (Nader?? What's up with that?), the Big Guns are ready to let 'er rip on Kerry. http://www.cnsnews.com//ViewSpecialReports.asp?Page=/SpecialReports/archive/200405/SPE20040503a.html this is totally off topic, but with some men, the subject of abortion Your second example, mimi, is the ugly one--the guys who see abortion as the ultimate threat to their power (God-given, no doubt) over women. Several years ago, a girl of about 13 or 14 was impregnated by her father. She confided to a friend and pretty quickly arrangements were made by a few adults to get her on a bus and to a safe, licensed/credentialed abortion clinic. The father somehow figured it out and, being the good religious person that he was, followed her down to the bus station and shot her in the head. Seems like this all happened in Utah. Maybe Idaho. Posted by: shylurker on May 3, 2004 10:59 PMYour second example, mimi, is the ugly one--the guys who see abortion as the ultimate threat to their power (God-given, no doubt) over women. Several years ago, a girl of about 13 or 14 was impregnated by her father. She confided to a friend and pretty quickly arrangements were made by a few adults to get her on a bus and to a safe, licensed/credentialed abortion clinic. The father somehow figured it out and, being the good religious person that he was, followed her down to the bus station and shot her in the head. Seems like this all happened in Utah. Maybe Idaho. Posted by: shylurker on May 3, 2004 10:59 PMUh-oh, I'm double-posting again. So sorry. Posted by: shylurker on May 3, 2004 11:01 PMRoxanne ~ only 92%? Oh yeah, well, well, I agree with YOU 96.5%!! Seriously, I get the feeling that we are on the same side essentially. My long~winded point which maybe I could have summed up in one sentence instead of six paragraphs is that *I* am too bull~headed and stubborn to see Nader as anything but a threat. The scenario you present hinges on one point ~ that the GOP is blindly promoting Nader and their hubris is so great he's going to turn on them and they won't anticipate it. I just don't see it. Jo ~ thank you thank you thank you. Your eloquence and research is exactly what is needed. Roxanne, if Jo's post doesn't convince you, nothing ever will. Jaycee ~ I think you are right on and I'm vibrating like crazy. And shylurker ~ you've illustrated EXACTLY THE FRIKKIN' PROBLEM ie. that while we're debating Kerry vs. Nader our energy and focus is distracted from the greater threat. Namaste~ ~D Posted by: Dommael on May 3, 2004 11:17 PMThis John O'Neill was on Nixon's payroll -- hired to discredit Kerry back in 70s... there is some misinformation in the CBS piece: John O'Neill did NOT serve with Kerry, he came in after Kerry left; also, he has been gathering up some stooges to speak against Kerry for sometime now... I don't know how they can be discredited once they speak. As for the commanders... the military records Kerry released contain letters from commanders speaking highly of Kerry... This is another example of Rove's dirty tricks. Once you call your opponent "not fit" it sticks. Kerry would never dare to call Bush "not fit" but of course he is... and CBS is doing payback for having aired the photos... they're giving this a "Special Report"... no where do they say they have seen evidence for any of this... only that they will cover a press conference where all manner of folk say negative things about Kerry... So what else is new? Same old shell game... don't pay attention to the atrocities in Iraq, the failure in Fallujah, etc., look over here at these liars the chickenhawks have brought in... --------------- http://www.interventionmag.com/cms/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=726 George W. Bush summed up his qualifications for elected office back in 1989: • “…I could run for governor but I'm basically a media creation. I've never done anything. I've worked for my dad. I worked in the oil business. But that's not the kind of profile you have to have to get elected to public office.” • “[George W. Bush] is probably the least qualified person ever to be nominated by a major party. Yes, he was elected governor of Texas, and before that he ran a baseball team and lost a lot of other people's money in the oil business. But what has happened in the intervening five years to make people believe that George W. Bush would be a good president? What is his accomplishment? That he's no longer an obnoxious drunk?”-- Ron Reagan Jr., quoted in Salon.com, 8/7/00 • “…George [W.] Bush was a student of mine. I still vividly remember him. In my class, he declared that ‘people are poor because they are lazy.’ He was opposed to labor unions, social security, environmental protection, Medicare, and public schools. To him, the antitrust watch dog, the Federal Trade Commission, and the Securities Exchange Commission were unnecessary hindrances to ‘free market competition.’ To him, Franklin Roosevelt's New Deal was ‘socialism.’”-- Professor Yoshi Tsurumi, Glocom Platform, 3/1/04 • “’Please,’ Bush whimpers, his lips pursed in mock desperation, ‘don’t kill me.’”-- George W. Bush, making fun of an executed Texas woman in an interview, quoted in National Review, 8/30/99 • “[2003 was] a year that waged open war on truth and facts and celebrated fakes and forgeries of all kinds. This was the year when fakeness ruled: fake rationales for war, a fake President dressed as a fake soldier declaring a fake end to combat and then holding up a fake turkey….casting real soldiers like Jessica Lynch as fake combat heroes and dressing up embedded journalists as fake soldiers.”-- Naomi Klein, The Nation, January 8, 2004 Just thought we needed a little fair and balanced coverage! Peace Posted by: Jo on May 3, 2004 11:40 PMhttp://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/04/05/con04190.html Flipping Bush Voters Posted by: Pat on May 3, 2004 11:43 PMcnn wants to know if torture is ever justified. "No" has a slight majority. Posted by: shylurker on May 3, 2004 11:58 PMhttp://www.salon.com/news/wire/2004/05/03/cbs/index.html Shylurker, thanks... I voted at CNN... I email them almost every day to tell them how inane their polls out... this one is shattering my cognitive dissonance, or any I may have left... Some 44% say 'torture is sometimes justified in interrogation... is that the 44% that supports Bush? Does this 44% think torture is always justified in interrogation? Psychological studies have shown no good information is extracted from tortured victims... they will say anything to be free of the torture... So does this mean they are not affected by the photos --- ? And if and when we discover how high up the responsibility goes for what may be systemic, this 44%+ will still be okay with what was done? Posted by: Jo on May 4, 2004 12:10 AMShylurker, Namaste Posted by: Jo on May 4, 2004 12:16 AMflipping bush voters!!! excellent article. I have actually searched for an arguement Mimi, he's looking for updates. Send him a note! Posted by: Pat on May 4, 2004 12:37 AMAnybody know anything about 'Riverbend' - has she been hacked? My link to a March 29,2004 story on prison in Iraq worked this a.m. Now I can't pull it up, I get blogspot.com and when I use her link I get blogspot.com... help! Posted by: Jo on May 4, 2004 01:05 AMPeace...peace...peace, everyone... Remember the common goal: defeating Bush, getting more Democrats into Congress (and office in general), getting the U.S. back in touch with its original mission, and working to re-integrate female/goddess energies into the world so we are again in balance, and peaceful & nuturing instead of violent & aggressive. The U.S. has always had a violent streak but we still have so much goodness. And everyone has a role to play: Dean had the courage to challenge the government & be the voice we all wanted, Nader has played an invaluable role in consumer & environmental protection, and, as was said, GWB is probably meant to be in the WH. Why? Among the many reasons, to allow us to sort out our values, as well as to see if we are living our values. Maybe also to teach us to dig deeper and look harder when we choose and believe our leaders. Yet, we must also be realistic about who the country will accept. At this point, people want someone they can trust to show good judgement and model wisdom and values...in other words: John Kerry. Love to all you good people, shylurker! that's exactly my point: i read your link about what 'they' have prepared for kerry tomorrow, and it's absolutely heartbreaking..it's as heartbreaking as the al gore concession speech!!! but how does he react? by showing himself in army gear????????????????????????? No no no..send him a subscription to Psychology Today or something!!!! USA DOES NOT WANT WAR..so therefore it is the wrong way to go..but does he have a clue? NO! the polls show that more people feel the iraq war was a mistake..and those numbers are jumping higher and higher each few weeks...so sherlock what would THEY CARE if the the opposite (?) of bushie was a REAL soldier? they want a guy who says NO WAR TODAY - BIG MISTAKE, SEND EVERYONE HOME...and who is that guy (and don't say kucinich...he's just a little guy who is the token 'good' dem.) i'm so sick of it..aren't y'all??????????? whatever. if the repugs do this to kerry and actually succeed it's just too painful for me to watch, and it's certainly going to be painful for ralph..he said he wanted john to be the john he knew in 73 .. to go back on your principals now is the WRONG MOVE, and he'd deserve to lose..wouldn't he? Posted by: Roxanne on May 4, 2004 01:45 AMI read the CNN Special Report and feel outrage and sadness that these 25 military people are claiming Kerry is unfit to be Commander-in-chief, but the only negative thing I could gauge from the article that they can find to say about him concern his anti-war protests (unless there are some other surprises coming, but I doubt it). Posted by: Sharon Katz on May 4, 2004 01:50 AM also, shylurker, you seem to be unwittingly showing the method to my madness... you say cbs sat on the story for 2 weeks? probably the gop behind that one too perhaps? yeah, well it came out with mercury station going direct..much more miles on this story than had it come out 2 weeks prior...of course that is BAD for the image of america, but the truth, any truth, should always be known... my point is gop cannot win, and it will get ugly as they go down...very ugly, but continuously ruinous for them.. in a way i am like the so-called kooks who think God is doing everything (incidentally that woman bush mocked was a born again christian). perhaps it is so that God put bush in office to ruin the GOP forever? perhaps it is God who has prepared us all to see WHY europe and the middle east should hate us (blindly following policies that cause casualties and pain)..and perhaps it is God now who should stand in front of Kerry and say, 'you're losing me.' for boasting he was a killer (soldier)..perhaps it is God telling the GOP push nader, get him on the debates, he'll never win? this is america, a crazy place..anything can happen, sometimes for good. Posted by: Roxanne on May 4, 2004 02:04 AMGreat bit from Josh Marshall today about Bush and Iraq and his cheery face on the matter. http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/ Either the president knows the situation is that bad or he (and perhaps his advisors too) is just too out of touch to have any idea what's happening. Increasingly, I think that the president is just too small-minded and vainglorious a man to come to grips with the situation. A strong president, a good president, would put his country before his pride and throw himself into saving the situation even if it meant admitting previous mistakes and ditching past policies and advisors. But I don't think this president has the character to do that. Making a clean sweep, firing some of his most compromised advisors, admitting some past mistakes -- not for effect, but so that those mistakes could be more thoroughly and rapidly overcome -- might well doom the president politically. But I doubt there's any question they'd be in the best interests of the country. This president seems either disinclined to or unable to do more than preside over a drift into disaster while putting on a game face. (Kevin Drum has an excellent post today on President Bush as the prototypical bad CEO -- Here's a snippet: "Bush styles himself a 'CEO president,' but the world is full to bursting with CEOs who have goals they would dearly love to attain but who lack either the skill or the fortitude to make them happen. They assign tasks to subordinates without making sure the subordinates are capable of doing them — but then consider the job done anyway because they've "delegated" it. They insist they want a realistic plan, but they're unwilling to do the hard work of creating one — all those market research reports are just a bunch of ivory tower nonsense anyway. They work hard — but only on subjects in their comfort zone.") There's all this talk about what might be the best critique of the president's policies (politically and substantively), what the best alternative policies might be, and so forth. But all of that, I think, misses the point. This president is too compromised by his deceptions, his past lack of accountability and his acquiescence in failed policies, ever to correct the situation. Like C.S. Lewis's metaphor about the road to hell being easy to walk down, but the further walked, harder and harder to turn back upon, this president is just too far gone with misleading the public, covering up and indulging incompetence, and embracing venality ever to make a clean break and start retrieving the situation. Posted by: Nancy on May 4, 2004 02:09 AMI just checked the Riverbend blog, and it is up. Posted by: Nancy on May 4, 2004 02:10 AMI've been searching (pretend The Temptations are singing in the background) all over and can't find Myers birthday. In Aug 2001, Smirky announced his appointment and his age was given as 59. I was hopeful that Bob, in that wonderful data summary of Smirky and friends and US dpts and agencies he sent us earlier here, might have had Myers included, but he didn't. Lois Rodden's site doesn't have him either. I've been searching (pretend The Temptations are singing in the background) all over and can't find Myers birthday. In Aug 2001, Smirky announced his appointment and his age was given as 59. I was hopeful that Bob, in that wonderful data summary of Smirky and friends and US dpts and agencies he sent us earlier here, might have had Myers included, but he didn't. Lois Rodden's site doesn't have him either. Arrrgh! I did it again (double-post). Sorry. Posted by: shylurker on May 4, 2004 02:15 AMThis CNN report means nothing. I mean, yes, it will influence a lot of people but again, literally, it means NOTHING. It is a smear. This is a prime example. What, are the opinions of 24 guys supposed to mean something to me? This is incredibly opportunistic ~ but what is this really? Two dozen guys are signing a piece of paper saying John Kerry is an a*****e! I've got news for you ~ all bets are off at this point. After Bu$h staged the Turkey attack the line between politics and advertising has become too blurred to trust anyone. The only thing that is going to save our asses is collective unity. That means that you, me, Jonathan, Raj, bakti, Jacee, Jeanie, Timothy, Roxanne, Shylurker, All the Pats, Isabel and Ivana, if she ever comes back, are all going to have to put away our daggers and agree on something. It is my opinion that you are grossly misunderestimating the general public, Roxanne. These people are freaked out. September 11th was the absolute most damnably freakish shockwave the collective unconscious known as the United States of America has ever experienced. Nothing else comes close. Of course it is right for us to challenge the system and establish a third party candidate. Have some mercy on the public. Americans of all kinds are in shock and the majority are so confused they aren't sure what is in their best interests. The differences between people in this country is a hair~trigger away from civil war. The despicably evil men in power are making a grab to be set up in all ways ~ financially, militarily and culturally ~ for dynasties. That is what is at stake here. We have *got* to use the tools available to snatch this country away from the men in power. That means using the government. That means becoming proud member #54194 of the Washington State Democrats and explaining nicely to representatives of the opposing~the~status~quo political party that they had better USE EVERY HOLY F*CKIN' THING THEY CAN THINK OF every political trick, every scheme, every plan, every strategy, every conceivable idea they can put their heads together to come up with to target George W Bu$h; AWOL; Smirky; and every sum~b*tch bastard that has profited off of this blood, trauma, and misery come this November election, 2004. If Nader will just shut the f*ck up, we can get every conceivable person on one page so that we can make some real changes in all of our lives and get this country back on track toward the vision of our Founding Fathers. Namaste~ ~D Posted by: Dommael on May 4, 2004 02:23 AMbhakti, thanks for the forewarning re the eclipse... seems we are all feeling the tension... Shylurker, I don't usually, but Sunday I watched Gen Myers on Geo Stepfie's show... actually, even Geo Will held Myers' feet to the fire! Geo asked repeatedly why in two months he had not read the report and Myers replied "it's working it's way down the chain of command" --- Now that's strange, because the Gen., who is also the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, answers to cabinet members and the pRes... he's the one who asked for the report (he says)... but he didn't get it first? Actually, Sy Hersh reports that it was Sanchez who asked for the investigation... Anyway, apparently Myers appeared on every single talking head show on Sunday... and repeated the same mantra... but I was amazed that Geo and Geo both held his feet to the fire... probably because Hersh's report was already out in the New Yorker --- Geo Step referred to it --- and GS was playing connect the dots... If you'll note Myers asked CBS to hold the photos two weeks (probably already aware Hersh's piece was coming on the 1st) --- and then they had the flyboy's anniversary to cover and now, the Kerry massacre tomorrow... these guys are evil... see the piece in Salon today by Joe Wilson on the cabal (the cult) that runs the country? Go get a day pass and read it... Wilson says basically 15 guys have made a coup d'etat within the State (nation) and now control the gov't... believes Bush came in as a Neocon recruit but now pretty much believes the party line... they intend to keep what they have stolen... we have to make sure they don't... Check out Doonesbury today... Morgana, full moon coming! Where's Morgana? You warned us about this one a while back, didn't you? Namaste Thanks so much, Jo. As I've said too many times, I don't have tv service (my druthers). Now let's see if I can post this just once. ! Posted by: shylurker on May 4, 2004 03:06 AMAnother apology: It was the Coasters, not the Temptations. (Well, hey, I been around for many decades and sometimes the stored info gets a little, well, frayed.) Jo Sad to say there is so much anger and "blue" language on this site at the moment that I find it more upsetting to read than supportive. Venting is important, venting is good, venting is understandable ... but is feels like you all are at war with each other. I came here to learn and understand the astrological dynamics, but there is so little of the information anymore. As for sending forth love and affecting the worldwide energy ... I picture the earth in my mind's eye surrounded by a "belt" of beautiful, white light and the belt moves up and down from North Pole to South Pole and vice versa ... constantly in motion, sweeping across the planet pulling out negativity wherever it is encountered. I also picture our forefathers standing on the lawn of the White House in a circle ... their energy and intention is to maintain the integrity of their founding priciples for our republic and to assiting the current administration in packing their bags. Good grace to all... signing off. Posted by: Viligant Virgo on May 4, 2004 03:30 AMDommael, Well, she IS one of Bush's, Pat... she was one of the 5 crows in black that put him in the White House. Souter on the other hand, dissented along with three others (5-4 decision) Pat, I read he was attacked along the Potomac Riverfront near his home about 9:00 pm Fri., by two men taken to Washington Hosp., and released Sat about 1:30 a.m. http://us.cnn.com/2004/LAW/05/01/souter.assaulted/ Posted by: Jo on May 4, 2004 03:41 AMAnd Vigilent Virgo has had a similar vision, of the forefathers on the lawn of the White House, to the one Corleonis had of the forefathers, walking into the HWite House! Oh thanks for the history fill in Jo. I was a 61 yr old, time challenged AmeriCorps VISTA ( 24/7) at the time, running with the 20 year olds.........Lots of information gaps from that 2 years in my life!!! Guess my dots don't connect? Vig Virgo added one delightful bit... the founding fathers were assisting in packing of bags!!! Happy Birthday, Pat... This is sort of off topic, but related to the bigger global picture. There is the well known chart of today’s Israel, but has anyone ever done a chart of the 1st Zionist Congress, August 29, 1897 in Basel, Switzerland? It seems to me that this chart would be important because it relates to events set in motion leading to the creation of: first the massive movement of European jewish immigrants, particularly Russian, to Palestine; secondly the Balfour Declaration following WWI; and thirdly attainment of legal status of the State of Israel by the UN. (as a side note, Sharon’s parents immigrated from Russia in the 20’s – one has to wonder what brutalities might have been imposed on his grandfather in Russia, who apparently lived with them, and who apparently impressed upon young Ariel the necessity of sleeping with a gun and to never give up the struggle no matter what.) shylurker, I dropped Sally a note and she did have Meyers birthday. 03.01.1942 Happy Birthday Pat QOP! I got a very nice email on my private line from Corleonis. Will reply and tell her she is missed. Hey guys and gals hang in there, a day before, the day of and the day after the eclipse is the most erratic time. Posted by: bhakti on May 4, 2004 04:36 AMCorleonis had a very steadying effect on my personality, at least. I apologize if my language was too strong ~ I have a memento from *Kissing the Blarney Stone* hanging above my door and I'm afraid it gets amplified around eclipses. *Shylurker ; Vigilant Virgo* my apologies if I was a bit blunt in expressing my POV. Jo ~ I totally forgot to include you in my rant. That Vulcan Mind Meld is still resonating. You're like the Voice on the Enterprise. Hunker down, Pat ~ hunker down. Happy Birthday! I hadn't heard that about the Riverboat. Thanks. Excellent, Jeanie. Namaste~ Namaste, Dommael... WV, thank you for the link above to yellowtimes... It's been a long time since I checked them out... this particular article is very timely for our conversation today... all the concern about what's going on in the collective... I recommend it to the rest of you if you haven't already checked it out. Namaste Posted by: Jo on May 4, 2004 05:37 AMPeak Oil. The reason for this war and the coming wars according to this site, recommended by http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/Introduction.html It's very long but here are just a few paragraphs: Over the last 50 years, predictions made by the Peak Oil community have been stunning in their accuracy. By the mid-1990's a small Peak Oil community had formed. At the forefront of this community was a man by the name of Jay Hanson, who operated the website DieOff.org. In 1997, Hanson made the following predictions: Peak Oil will likely spell the end of America, the end of the industrialized world, and the end of many, many, lives all around the globe if we don't start taking massive, sustained, and unprecedented action right now. If we stay on our current path, the oil age will be followed by a second stone age. - Worldwide oil production would plateau sometime around the year 2000. - Within a few years of the plateau, the US would invade Iraq under false pretenses, depose Saddam, seize the oil fields, and set up an occupational government. - Within a few years of oil production hitting a plateau, the US would be engaged in a worldwide war. This war would be focused primarily on Muslim, oil producing nations. - Gas prices would hit record highs by summer 2004. This would become a major issue in the 2004 Presidential election. -OPEC would cut its production around the same time to hide the fact their oil fields would be in permanent decline. - The US would begin passing fascist-style legislation in preparation for the American population's response to the coming oil shocks. - The draft would be reinstated to provide soldiers for oil wars. Peak Oil is the biggest issue facing humanity since the flood. We are already in the first stages of the oil crash. None of the current forms of renewable energy, or combination thereof, can even come close to replacing oil. Technology, the market, and the laws of supply and demand will not solve this for us. In 1956, Dr. Hubbert predicted US oil production would peak in 1970, after which the US would experience a severe oil and gas crisis. When Dr. Hubbert made his prediction, his colleagues laughed at him and called him a "doomsayer." Fifteen years later, Dr. Hubbert's prediction came true. His colleagues, now standing in 3-hour-long lines to get gas, weren't laughing any more. In 2002, Dale Allen Pfeiffer - the energy editor of From the Wilderness - used oil production curves to predict which countries the US will threaten with military action in the years to come. If we wait till the oil shortages hit hard to take action, it will be too late. At that point, we won't have the energy we need to take action. Put simply, we are running out of oil and time. http://www.mountainastrologer.com/tmaletter.html "The main astrological feature toward the end of this decade is the repeated activation of zero-degree cardinal points (0° Aries, Cancer, Libra, Capricorn) by outer planets in t-square and grand cross configurations. What concerns me is not just these aspects themselves but the fact that they contact the four most sensitive points in the zodiac. In a recent issue (Mountain Astrologer Dec./Jan. 2004, page 3), I presented a few charts for the summer of 2010 showing these configurations, ... Another ongoing factor is the septile aspect (1/7 of a circle) made by Neptune and Pluto in 2001-2011. The last time these two were in exact septile was in 1937-1940, during Hitler’s rise to power as an international threat and the start of World War II. (Our next issue will give more details on this septile aspect and other upcoming configurations.) However, if current collective trends continue, I believe we will have major problems with vital resources like natural gas and oil, starting in 2006-2010; these will disrupt the systems that support our complex and fragile civilization, including food production and distribution, which in turn will lead to more attempts by those with military power to secure the remaining resources. Leaving aside the chaos created by future terrorist activity and all types of religious fundamentalism, another potentially huge concern in the years ahead is the change now being observed in the North Atlantic conveyor, an ocean current that has been responsible for bringing moderate temperatures to Europe and the Northeast U.S. and Canada. Frigid weather could develop surprisingly quickly in these areas (as well as weather patterns changing worldwide) and cause global economic problems, the migration of large numbers of people, and disruption of agriculture. It is obvious to many respected observers that significant problems are coming (just go to google.com and enter "peak oil" or "climate change," or see www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net) – but astrology can give us insight into the likely timing of major changes. Knowledge of the timing allows us to better prepare for forces beyond our individual control. For example, we might take the time now to install solar panels or to learn gardening skills. The sky may not have fallen just yet, but the planets are certainly moving into these formidable configurations. dom...in regards to saying nader should shut up so we can get back to.. impeaching bush/cheney (petition on his web site) what's wrong with any of these things? as i said, if the race is close i'll vote kerry...but you have to understand that there is always the possibility of strange things happening..assasinations, many things can happen between now and nov... most important this is an astro site..the astrologers said months ago here that kerry was at his peak at the time that he actually toppled dean..it's turned out to be true if you look at the past few months.. Heres a link to a Palden Jenkins astro article titled the next 70 years http://www.palden.co.uk/palden/pal-4-70.html and another that I found regarding oil history During the early twentieth century, oil production continued to climb. By 1920, oil production reached 450 million barrels - prompting fear that the nation was about to run out of oil. Government officials predicted that the nation's oil reserves would last just ten years. Up until the 1910s, the United States produced between 60 and 70 percent of the world's oil supply. As fear grew that American oil reserves were dangerously depleted, the search for oil turned worldwide. Oil was discovered in Mexico at the beginning of the twentieth century, in Iran in 1908, in Venezuela during World War I, and in Iraq in 1927. Many of the new oil discoveries occurred in areas dominated by Britain and the Netherlands: in the Dutch East Indies, Iran, and British mandates in the Middle East. By 1919, Britain controlled 50 percent of the world's proven oil reserves. After World War I, a bitter struggle for control of world oil reserves erupted. ....more Thanks Jeannie. Palden's paragraph: In 2012-16 we face a crunch. All that was seen and conceived in the mid-1960s will be fully under test – plus the beliefs and efforts of the generation which was deeply marked by the 1960s. Rising difficulties will force pragmatic adaptation. There will be more emphasis on structures, but particularly on the capacity of structures to handle and channel change, forced by crisis. The time for debates will be over, and the world will be faced with many imperatives – possibly even a world crisis of enormous proportions. Energy straining against containment: Uranus in Aries square (90°) Pluto in Capricorn. Choices and re-adjustments, stress between individual and society. Cooperation or breakdown. A major transition or painful ruin – or a mixture of both, depending on our choices. ____ Apparently Cheney did a survey and realized that we would be out of oil or plateuing- the crunch spoken of - starting around 2006, with the true crunch around 2010. Previously they had thought there was sufficient oil for 20 years or so - and then realized they miscalculated. Instead of being militaristic, why didn't they just make an announcement from the White House, every house in America is required to get solar panels and tie up to the grid? every house is required to plant vegetable gardens and build a chicken coop for expected and possible food shortages? etc etc It might have frightened people, but there would have been 4 years where people could have started planning and growing. Why didn't they start building hydrogen power plants everywhere possible? This was not "protecting the citizens" by this government. And if they weren't all oil people they might have done the above things instead of creating wars to capture other countries' oil which will only temporarily stave off what inevitably will occur. No oil. This is the most incompetent stupid and greedy administration the world has ever seen - maybe even more so than Hitler's. Maybe the only good thing about an oil shortage is What a mess. Well I have my tomato plants in and planted a fruit tree. With mad cow around, we may all be happy to be vegetarians. Not a pretty picture painted by the astrologers in those articles is it? Posted by: Pallas18 on May 4, 2004 07:44 AMPallas, so get your thinking cap on now! Inventors, devise and secure patents for the next wave of planet friendly inventions for the next phase of human existence. Mediators, start honing your skills. Just think what a world we could have if all the enlightened beings could link up to work behind the scenes to devise, and have ready to put in place, new strategies while this political madness persists. Blessed are the meek (enduring injury with patience and without resentment) for they shall inherit the earth. Posted by: Jeanie on May 4, 2004 08:21 AMIs the veil beginning to lift just a little more? Turki: Bremer "Didn't Care" about Torture Evidence: Abdul Basit Turki, Iraq's first Minister of Human Rights, had his resignation accepted on Sunday. He had tendered it in response to the way the US dealt with the situation in Fallujah, among other issues. He maintained that he had heard horror stories about abuses at Abu Ghuraib last fall and had briefed American civil administratrator Paul Bremer about them, but that Bremer took no action: ' In November I talked to Mr Bremer about human rights violations in general and in jails in particular. He listened but there was no answer. At the first meeting, I asked to be allowed to visit the security prisoners, but I failed," he said. "I told him the news. He didn't take care about the information I gave him." ' I wonder if Bremmer shunted it up the chain and someone else sat on it? He had no control over 'military' affairs. I wonder if he too will start talking about what he knows once he's out of there? Posted by: Jeanie on May 4, 2004 10:00 AMhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1206725,00.html Roxanne, HAPPY BELATED BIRTHDAY, PAT! ! ! HAPPY FULL MOON TO EVERYBODY Thank you kindly for all the nice compliments. Sorry I was gone, it had nothing to do with any I cannot believe this is the same site I left one
You know what to do with all that anger and fear: SEND IT BACK!!!GET RID OF IT!!! This is no time to be Pacifists. This is WAR: We are fighting here for our very survival: Four more years of 'shrub' and AssCroft will be Now: Need I remind you what the British Covens GUIDELINES: 1. WAXING MOON = building up 2. FULL MOON = culmination of building up 3. WANING MOON = tearing down 4. ALLOW ABOUT THREE DAYS AFTER EACH PHASE 5. PAY ATTENTION TO 'VOIDS OF COURSES'- DO NOT 6. CONSULT YOUR BOOK OF SHADOWS OR COME UP WITH 7. KEYWORDS : DIRECTED ENERGY - FOCUS 8. LET'S GIVE EACH OTHER COMFORT AND SUPPORT!!!
APRIL 5/04 - MOON in Sag : 5:08pm-EASTERN
B L E S S E D B E! ! ! Posted by: corleonis on May 4, 2004 02:34 PMJeanie, First of all, as HISHAM MELHEM expressed it to Ray Suarez of NPR: "...The irony that these abuses were taking place in Abu Ghraib, the most notorious prison during Saddam's regime, a facility that should have been razed to the ground and in its place built a shrine or memorial to its many victims. These abuses were taking place in that most notorious jail." SEYMOUR HERSH: "I mean, this is such a deep problem. One of the things the major general said in his report is you have a systemic problem. And I would venture to say, based, what his report is saying is that essentially, folks, what you saw was unusual in that it was photographed, but what's going on, that's what's going on, that's what's happening in our prisons. It started, he also makes note of this, that the problems began in Afghanistan, this kind of abuse, and so what you're seeing is the result of a decision made somewhere up high up in the line that we're going to turn our prisons essentially into all of them in the Guantanamos, they're all going to become factories for eliciting intelligence, and one of the things that has been made here earlier that Mr. Solis said, there's no...these are detainees, these are civilians." and again, on NPR Go read... Pluto is digging up the dirt and you can find someone commenting any and everywhere (but is tNeptune covering up? 3rd house?)Sy Hersh is on all the talk/news shows. He will probably get another pulitzer prize for his investigative work on this issue. He suggests that there are 'foreign agents' working in Iraq with US in the area of 'interrogation' - points out that we have been using Sharon's tactics in training at Ft. Benning... and advises us to stay tuned, he has more coming... Again, the veils are falling but are we looking? CNN poll results yesterday are appalling... Namaste Posted by: Jo on May 4, 2004 02:49 PMCorlonius! Yes! Posted by: Pat on May 4, 2004 02:53 PMCORLEONIS! SO GLAD YOU ARE BACK! we missed you... please don't go away again... Blessed be, Namaste Here is a link to a newsletter with astro/political information by astrologer Robert Blaschke. I just got it by email this a.m. http://www.earthwalkastrology.com Posted by: Isabelle Ghaneh on May 4, 2004 02:58 PMThe newsletter is in blue on the right-hand side of the website, the link doesn't take you directly to the newsletter, just the website, and you proceed from there. Posted by: Isabelle Ghaneh on May 4, 2004 03:02 PMHere are some practical things we all can do to reduce energy use and practice Energy Efficiency. My husband is a certified Energy Rater and President of the National Energy Rater Assocation. We live in Southern Louisiana and our energy bills ranges from $15-40 (peak summer heat). This includes electricity and gas. Myron thinks that if everyone (including China) practiced Energy Efficiency, the world would save up to 80% of oil use!!!! We are not using sustainables at this time at all, only practicing Energy Efficiency. Here's some things to do that can make a BIG difference: 1) Change to fluourescent light bulbs. They are making them better and better and I have even seen them full spectrum online. Many states give rebates for energy audits. To find out more, go to www.EnergyRaters.com. This stuff really works. Let me know if you want more info. My husband is an expert and loves to spread the gospel. Love to you all - 100 mistakes bush made. http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=64326 Posted by: mimi on May 4, 2004 03:56 PMThanks Isabelle. I've never seen that site before and Blaschke looks like some very good astrology for "2) Saturn Conjunct USA Sun June 11: For the first time since 1974-75 Saturn will transit over the USA Sun once on June 11th, the day after Uranus stations retrograde in close square to the U.S. progressed Uranus. At the last occurrence of the Saturn conjunction to the USA Sun, President Nixon resigned to the day of the first transit on 9 August 1974; the Fall of Saigon, ending the Vietnam War, came one week after the third conjunction of 22 April 1975. Nixon had a stationary progressed Pluto and a progressed Jupiter in exact opposition to the USA Sun when he resigned in disgrace. view chart With the USA progressed Sun this year in the fated 30th degree of Aquarius, and about to end an American era which began in March 1975 at the Fall of Saigon, the ghosts of the Vietnam War are rising from the grave and are clearly evident in the Bush-Kerry contest for the presidency. The combat decorations for Senator Kerry's tour of duty in the Navy in Vietnam are being contrasted against Mr Bush's questionable Texas National Guard service and avoidance of the war. Vice-president Dick Cheney, who gave a recent speech snidely questioning Mr Kerry's ability to protect the national security of the United States, was then lampooned in the Congress by New Jersey Democratic Senator and World War II veteran, 80 year old Frank Lautenberg, as a 'Chickenhawk' because of Mr Cheney's multiple deferments during the Vietnam Era. Right on cue, as the U.S. progressed Sun nears its ingress into Pisces on the 1st of November, any unfinished business of the last 29 years has erupted from deep within the collective American psyche." Thanks to you too Sharon. I've done most of your husband's suggestions. Trying to find a local mfr and could you believe You would think that solar energy would be a thing they would be pushing, but not with Jeb In the immediate neighborhood 4000 new houses and large ones are being built. Without solar panels. I guess it has finally sunk in. The oil companies are and have been the government. But you would think they would switch to another form time for a joke: Bush's bus tour is fake, he takes a plane: "President Bush's bus tour is a scam on several levels. First, he isn't actually using the bus: "The bus tour, about 60 miles through western Ohio, actually includes two airplane flights — one from Detroit to Toledo and another from Toledo to Dayton." Posted by: Peg on May 4, 2004 05:47 PMHi Isabelle. Blaschke's treatise on all the transits coming up He delineates the Inauguration day of Jan 20 2005, and indicates the winner will be Kerry: -snip- The January 2005 Inauguration Chart and America's Future It would be only natural to imagine what America will be like on the morning of November 3rd. One peek into this future lies in the 20 January 2005 Inauguration chart. view chart The astrologer will find Mars, the planet of leadership, at 18 Sagittarius, and in the exact degree of Senator John Kerry's natal Sun. One would also notice that the Part of Fortune is in the degree of the USA Neptune, quite apropos for a nation whose progressed Sun has just ingressed into Pisces, wouldn't you say? But attention can also be given to an elevated Chiron, conjunct the MC at 27 Capricorn, and in the degree of the USA Pluto. After four years of intense violence, and fear of additional violence, the country needs to heal. This Inaugural Chiron is part of a 27 degree Cardinal Grand Cross, which is comprised of the lunar nodes at 27 Aries and Libra, the USA Pluto, and the degree of the retrograde station of Saturn from November 8th, 27 Cancer. If one looks a little more deeply into this configuration, one would discover that the Sun/Pluto midpoint for Mr Bush is at 27 Cancer 10, within 10 minutes of arc of the Saturn station. One way that an astrologer could read this symbolism is that his use of power (Sun/Pluto) has now been ended (Saturn station). Additionally, the astute astrologer would notice that Jupiter in this Inauguration chart is sextile to Mr Kerry's Sun within 2 minutes of arc, and applying at that. This correspondent has predicted that John Kerry will be the next president of the United States, and that the country, with its secondary progressed Moon applying to a conjunction with the USA Sun on December 6th, will unify behind the new leader." but if you look at the chart of his 2005 Inauguration day, he makes no mention of the chart's 8th house Mars/Pluto conjunction in Sag in the eighth house Quincunx Saturn in the third, close to the 4th cusp, Saturn ruling the MC/10th house of the Inaugural chart. I think that's a worrisome aspect for the President who is inaugurated on that day, don't you think? Earlier he speaks of the June 8 Venus (occultation) opposition Mrs. Kerry's Progressed Sun and conjuncting John Kerry's Moon: "It is also of note that this June 8th inferior conjunction falls exactly on Senator John Kerry's natal Moon, and in exact opposition to the progressed Sun of his wife, Teresa Heinz Kerry. One could deduce that this is yet another portend of his being elected president in November, as your correspondent predicted in his 4 February 2004 newsletter. Mrs Heinz Kerry, born 5 October 1938 in Lourenco Marques, Mozambique (source: personal correspondence with Heinz Family Philanthropies; time unknown), has a Sun-Saturn opposition just like her husband. view chart " - natally her Venus is part of a T Square squaring Jupiter/Moon in the 2nd and opposing I don't know. I think sometimes we as astrologers, in matters where we can't be as objective as we usually are [and politics at this point in time certainly is one of those things: we all have our own bias] look at the aspects which confirm what we want to see and may ignore To me the inauguration chart with the Mars Pluto inconjunct Saturn,and with a 11th house Uranus square the Moon, indicates a need to be careful in travel, and a public who is quite upset as the Moon rules the 4th house. What do you think?
That is what I see too, Pallas, a deeply divided country by those aspects, plus Saturn is opposite that innaugral Sun conjunct Chiron. Saturn could be read as the conservatives, the old guard of politics, or institutions representing the legal system, civil service and all restraining/restricting forces of society. It is on the IC which is the base of society and its most cherished institutions. Also it is the harvest of the land, the crops, or the common folk. A while back on another thread Corleonis had mentioned how much J Kerry looked like Andrew Jackson on the 20 dollar bill. I thought it very coincidental at the time because I had had the same thought. I was researching for another beginning of the Democratic Party, as opposed to the Jefferson Democratic Republican party chart. Thing is, I don't like the chart for the current Repub party with Libra rising and that Jupiter/Venus transit happening there near election day. (Charts are given here on the home page) Anyhow to make it short, I guess you have to interpret the 2005 chart with whomever is elected. We are being given such lessons with this newest spate of news, but I don't know that people are 'getting it.' With all the projections of good and evil flying about, the morphing of Bush into Saddam Hussein, the lesson here is that we are all human, and that we contain both sides. We must beware that in a plane of duality, the brightest light can cast the darkest of shadows. Because certain leaders call others 'evil doers' or 'Great Satans' and then initiate acts of cruelty to validate further disownment of one's own nature instead of integrating it............ well it's all out there, but Neptune's rays offer the comfort of illusion. I've always found it so delicious that the creators of "spirits" as in champagne and certain liquours were the Monks. Posted by: Sharon on May 4, 2004 07:27 PMPallas18 (love your name)'s posts about peak oil and the rest of the comments are dead~on target regarding the underlying causes behind Bu$h, the cabal and the entire state of the Universe at present moment. IMHO. Incidentally, have you checked out Josh Marshall at www.talkingpointsmemo.com lately? *** Therein lies the problem. Aside from the ethical problems of starting WWIII over oil, Bu$h and co are simply not smart enough to pull off what they are trying to start (or have started.) And that means you and me and our kids are the ones that are going to be left paying for the bill. And this is one bill we do *NOT* want to be working off for generations, karmically, financially, militarily, whatever you want to call it. Again, Roxanne ~ we are on the same side. There is only one point that we dispute and that is that while the NeoCons are in power (oh mah gawd yes they are) the first thing you will ever learn in a fight is that "divide and conquer" tactics work in your favor. If Nader and Kerry could get on one side ~ we just might have a chance here. This is as much Kerry's fault as Naders (perhaps I haven't quite expressed that) and I tell you ~ if it were reversed and Nader was going to be the Democratic candidate and Kerry was third party I'd be saying exactly the same thing about Kerry. Many things can happen between now and November ~ indeed, they will. This should give you some respect for Kerry for even stepping up to the plate to inherit this mess. Really, though, the problem is just that you can have a sane, rational, discussion with just about anyone where people agree on the fundamental issues, and then *Nader* comes up and people divide and split. I just simply think he's doing more harm than good. Peak oil is beyond a political problem. It's beyond an ideological problem. It's beyond an intellectual Kerry/Nader split. It is the snuffing out of this planet and you'd better believe this is a valid astrological topic. Take this website reference with a grain of salt but in regards to peak oil you might find it interesting: http://www.moderateindependent.com/v2i4abomb.html What is this “’A’-Bomb” policy? No one believes for a second we can bomb the Middle East into peacefulness. Everyone knows the only way to actually secure peace in the Middle East – indeed, to make the whole region powerless and irrelevant – is to get us free of our dependence on their oil. Every respectable economist knows that in order for any economic entity to grow – be it a company or a nation – you don’t just need a bunch of money sitting in the company’s coffers but new directions of potential growth to take the company, or nation. And people know that small measures of slightly reducing corporate pollution will not achieve enough to truly make the air, even in our biggest cities, clean as it is in the mountains and countryside. Only elimination of the burning of fossil fuels, by power plants, cars, and all sources, will accomplish something tangible to all. Picturing a clogged freeway with no smoke being created would be an astonishing image to all Americans. When John Kerry launched his campaign a year ago December, he proposed first and foremost make a “space race-like” charge toward alternative energy. And when he breaks out this plan during the general election, it will be clear to the American people that this indeed is the only way to really deal usefully with the Middle East problem, a true way to expand our economy, taking it boldly in a new, extremely profitable direction (just think all the wealth of the Middle East suddenly headed our way instead,) and, at the same time, a realistic plan to actually take not just some bits but the majority of the pollution out of our air. And even more, there is absolutely no downside to Kerry’s plan. That article was posted on March 25, 2004, incidentally. I don't give one good /*#@%/ (sorry, I'm really trying to control my language here) if Kerry is the next President or not. All I know is that at this moment in time, his voice (apart from Bu$h's) resonates the farthest. I am not defending him out of personal loyalty. I am defending him because as we bicker among ourselves, DimSon and the cabal are merrily gobbling up our future. Corleonis ~ welcome back!!! Gawd, I make such long posts. Just one more thought and then I'm going to shut up. And it's about the media. The most desirable target consumer audience is, I believe, 18~24 year olds. The most effective media weapon is, of course, the television {the television screen is the retina of the minds eye ~ therefore the television screen is part of the physical structure of the brain ~ therefore, whatever appears on the television screen emerges as raw experience for those who watch it.} Where television goes, the rest of the media follows. The *ONLY* place to get the straight~dope perspective from those who have lived on this planet for a few years and have seen some hardcore stuff and have the voice of generations of wisdom is... ...online. We've got the tools. We've got the brains. We've got the means to change the world. We just need to focus, organize, pray, and do it. ~D
Anyone have any takes on how the charts of the FBI & CIA will be affected with all else thats going on? They could surely add some interesting elements into the pot, domestic and international. Posted by: Jeanie on May 4, 2004 07:43 PMSy Hersh on Diane Rhiem this morning, in response to a question asking whether there were incidents of torture (Why won't anyone call it by its rightful name? - Anyone hear Rumsfeld?), Hersh said that women and juveniles were kept in a separate part of the prison and that there's... Children are involved in these atrocities... Hersh has seen the videos... and what is our government doing? Wondering what to do to shore up the crumbling image of our country abroad! Is it always about us...? Pray and send light to the children... and our souls, what's left of them! Ok, I know I just said I was going to shut up ~ I read that the Pentagon released a statement saying that the prison in question "contained only a few high-profile political captives, the rest are merely common criminals." I'm thinking the Pentagon isn't quite grasping the point here. ~D Posted by: Dommael on May 4, 2004 08:16 PMSharon, We don;t have the real birthtimes for the dem or gop party, only solar charts, and I cannot fathom As far as a new chart for the dems, how about Clinton's inauguration because he started the centrist movement called the DLC, Democratic Leadership Council instead of the DNC? We do have the real time of the Inaugural Jan Inaugural Mars/Pluto in the first conjunct his natal Sun and oppose his natal Moon/Saturn in the 7th, Saturn oppposition Pluto exactly, and that doesn't sound very safe for Kerry or for the US. Inaugural Uranus in the third house quincunx's Kerry's natal Neptune conjunct Inaugural MC. And that sounds like some rather confusing - shocking news. The Inauguration chart indicates what his term of office would be like. Doesn't look peaceful, honest, or safe. Scuse me, while I draw the covers up. Posted by: Pallas18 on May 4, 2004 09:14 PM Hello. I have been reading this site with interest and there are a couple of things I would like to ask: l. Will there be national debates between Kerry and Bush? As an astologer, I say no.....there is just too much happening over the next six months for Bush to even consider being questioned on any level. What do you think? 2. Will Cheney actually run with Bush this time? I say no. What do you think? Justonce Posted by: Justonce on May 4, 2004 09:33 PMJuan Cole is a professor of history at the University of Michigan and considered an expert on the Middle East, History, Islam, and Religion. He has testified before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee (most recently last month). I visit his website everyday now to get some perspective on events in Iraq and the Middle East and I highly recommend his writings. http://www.juancole.com This a.m. he posted the following editorial piece: Fallujah and Abu Ghuraib: No Comparison There simply is no logical or ethical comparison between the killings and desecrations of the four private commandos at Fallujah by a mixture of guerrillas and mobs, and the systematic torture of Prisoners of War by a democratic country. Any equivalence would suggest that the United States military is not, and cannot be expected to be, better than an enraged mob in a small occupied city in Iraq's western desert. What was done to the commandos was horrible, and it was a crime by civilians and irregulars who should be arrested and punished. The United States is a government, not a mob. As such, it has entered into treaty relations and made commitments to international law. It is a signatory of the Geneva Conventions, which govern how prisoners are to be treated. The United States army violated the Geneva Conventions when it tortured Iraqi prisoners of war. Period. It was a series of serious crimes not by isolated civilians but by agents of the US government. Crimes of states are always more serious than crimes of individuals, because states are organized collective institutions upon which civilization depends. There is no excuse for it, least of all that sometimes town mobs have behaved worse. The four dead American commandos at Fallujah, who were not uniformed military, have already occasioned a brutal siege of the city and over 600 Iraqi deaths, some proportion of them civilian. Shall they now also excuse the torture of dozens of Iraqis at Abu Ghuraib? And this, months after the fact? Is this Iraq enterprise an occasion for endless serial revenge, or an attempt to share democratic values with a beleaguered population all too used to torture and oppression? In the sordid calculus of race, how many Iraqi lives and psyches exactly are worth four American ones? The issue of hypocrisy is also important here. The rabble of Fallujah never pledged that they were committing violence in order to end torture and establish democracy. George W. Bush boasted repeatedly that "there are no more torture chambers" in Iraq. I am not only outraged that the US military committed these crimes, but I am extremely alarmed that the images coming out of Abu Ghuraib have damaged US credibility in Iraq beyond repair. Anyone tempted to make light of this issue or dismiss it with feeble and inappropriate comparisons would be making a serious error of judgment. Here's further news from today's Washington Post (found on Democratic Underground) about the letter released today to criticize Kerry's military performance. Apparently they are complaining that not all of his military records were released, implying that something is being covered up. I hope there is nothing there that is worth hiding. Somehow I doubt that there is... WP: Group Says Kerry Released Edited Version of Military Records
"You now seek to clad yourself in the very medals that you disdainfully threw away in the early years of your political career," the group wrote. "In the process, we believe you continue a deception as to your own conduct through such tactics as the disclosure of only carefully screened portions of your military records." The group consists of veterans who, like Kerry, served on "swift boats" during the conflict. The letter will be released at an event sponsored by the Dallas-based Spaeth Communications Inc. -- whose founder, Merrie Spaeth, is mentioned on the Bush White House Web site as a "prominent" alumni of its fellows program. The veterans organization demanded that Kerry authorize the Navy to release his complete military records. Kerry's campaign recently released a large number of the Democrat's military and health records that offered glowing assessments of his tour of duty. The Massachusetts senator spent 4 1/2 months in Vietnam, during which he received Bronze and Silver stars, along with three Purple Hearts. more… Wow! I just read the entire Blaschke article. He is really, really good. But I must admit my head is spinning. That was a lot to take in!! I am very happy to see he concurs with my predictions for the election and for the same reasons. One can never get enough confirmation of a Kerry win, imo! I also am not happy with the Saturn station quincunx US Moon through the election (I had missed that one), but this confirms what I have said previously that beginning around September, things for the country will seem rather somber and difficult, and this will contribute to Bush's demise. Maybe it is the price we have to pay to break through the blindness of the sleepy citizenry. Our extraordinary self-indulgent ways might be about to take a hit (Saturn). I don't see the difficulties as a terrorist hit, although Pluto will be making its last crossing to Mars in November, and that as we have seen lately, brings fierce hatred against the US. The current abuse scandal is clearly related to this Pluto transit opposite US Mars which is kindling furious emotions against us in the Arab world (and elsewhere). Posted by: Nancy on May 4, 2004 10:12 PMWait, wait... *** They are not suggesting that we are supposed to take this memo at face value and these guys didn't even serve **with** Kerry?!? So, this is what, like a character evaluation from people whose only single point of reference is that they served in the same war?!? I must be reading this wrong. That *CAN'T* be this memo's only claim to newsworthiness. Welcome, JustOnce. I started out just like you... ~D Posted by: Dommael on May 4, 2004 10:14 PMOOPS This gets a bit confusing. If you use Kerry's birthplace of Colorado it comes out as above. To tell the truth, I dont know where he lives, so do you say he lives in Wash. DC? or does he live in Mass? If we do Colorado for Kerry his natal South Node is in the 10th of the Inaugural chart. That wouldn't look good If we relocate Kerry to DC........... And doing Bush's on the Inaugural 2005 puts his MC in the 12th house , which of course is nothing new because he's been hiding the entire past 4 years. Bush's natal Saturn is exactly on the 4th cusp of the Inaugural chart but we can't tell anything from that either becuase it could just mean Bush is at home (in the WH) however Bush's aspects also are Inaugural Mars/Pluto in the 8th opposite Bush natal Uranus in the second. I dislike saying this but from the Inauguration chart Bush has a Jupiter return conjunct the Inaugural Jupiter and fate point Vertex. He also has natal Venus on the 5th house cusp of the Inaugural which suggests partying,celebrating. Don't throw computers at me. We'd better look at the November 2 election charts. Last time around in 2000 with Bush and Gore, I kept reading "something is wrong, that it was Gore but it wasn't" . This time if we're looking at the Inauguration charts to tell who is doing what, I'd have to say
http://www.nationalreview.com/york/york200405041626.asp I wonder how much they paid this guy. Posted by: Pallas18 on May 4, 2004 10:27 PMIf memory serves me, Bush & Kerry's first national debate will be Sept. 30th at the University of Miami. This is probably Donna Shallala's doing. She is the new UM president who last served as Clintons Health and Human Welfare Secretary (usure of exact title of dept.). As a 20 year employee of UM who retired one year ago to move to New Orleans, I am proud of the location and sorry I cannot be there, but I'll probably see it better on TV. As a compassionate Pisces (sun, mars, venus, Jup), I generally don't wish bad on anyone, but I am hoping that the very eloquent, articulate, honest & dignified John Kerry (Sag/Gem) will hold his ground (Venus Scorpio?) and reveal W for the pathetic, narrow-minded, backward thinking fool that he is. (I know he's not all bad, but that's what witnessing injustice does to you - besides I have Pluto conjunct my Leo moon opposite my Aquarian mercury). What worries me is that the Libra sun or any other Libra planets might make Bush look good. Oh well - there will be other debates! As far as Cheyney running, I instinctively believe Bush will stick by him, even if astrology shows they are at odds (per StarIQ). Posted by: Sharon Katz on May 4, 2004 10:27 PMBear in mind that one facet that is of *Supreme* importance to Bu$h and Co is that they have broken international law, and it would be well within our moral and legal rights to haul their asses in front of an International War Crimes Tribunal (like the Neurenburg trials at the end of WWII) and they could all very well end up in prison for the rest of their lives. Sounds ludicrous, don't it? Well, bet you me, Bu$h, Rove, Cheney, Rummy, Uncle John, Sleezy and the rest of Gilligan's island are ALL *VERY* *VERY* aware that this is one way the game could play out. It is quite possible that even if they *lose* the White House, if it looks like they are comfortably well off from oil revenues for the rest of their lives and the American legal system is giving them a free pass, yes, they will be celebrating. ~D Posted by: Dommael on May 4, 2004 10:32 PMI know this is a little off topic, but I've been looking at pictures of Bush from the last few days and he looks like he's put on some weight. His face looks kind of bloated or something. It's possible that it's just that every picture I've seen has been stretched to fit certain required dimensions, but I think Bush's face looks noticeably rounder. Does anyone else see what I'm talking about? Posted by: Dave on May 4, 2004 10:33 PMDave ~ Please scroll up until you find the post that states that BU$H IS A PSEUDOPOD OF THE OUTER GODS. ;-) The Kerry campaign needs to ignore these attacks by right wing GOP Vets who want to discredit him. They are probably angry because he was against the war. It is time for the Kerry campaign (and us) to keep repeating that all these attacks are beside the point and attempts to change the subject from Bush's numerous collosal failures, period!! The GOP keeps trying to pull Kerry away from what is relevant and toward what will make him defensive. He fell for it over the medals/ribbons nonsense, but hopefully he won't be fooled again. The more energy is given to these dishonest detours, the more power they gain. If they are ignored, they disappear, unless of course they really are ture. Then they tend to reemerge, like W's AWOL story. Posted by: Nancy on May 4, 2004 10:49 PMYes Dave, I have. First it was looking like he lost some weight, and now he looks puffy and pale. Could be lack of make up or something like that??? Posted by: Sharon on May 4, 2004 10:50 PMForgot, could be the puffy suit look is his bullet proof vest. Posted by: Sharon on May 4, 2004 10:55 PMNancy, you have to read Blatschke carefully. He later admits that he was writing very emotionally and subjectively. He left out a lot of negative aspects in order to make it fit his desired outcome. Read his stuff on Mrs. Kerry , look at the chart and see if you agree. Same with his conclusions Everyone knows from the article I wrote for Astroworld some time ago that the Cabal is one group that I want to see gone yesterday, preferably to the Hague, but as astrologers we I just don't see Blatschke's delineations adding up to what he says. Also we still have another Pluto opposition Saturn This is too precious. Check out Saturn in Cancer, all right! Posted by: Sharon on May 4, 2004 11:07 PMP.S. don;t get me wrong. I think he's a super great writer and historian, and a pretty darn good astrologer who has the integrity to admit he hasn't always been right. Posted by: Pallas18 on May 4, 2004 11:10 PMNancy wrote: "It is time for the Kerry campaign (and us) to keep repeating that all these attacks are beside the point and attempts to change the subject from Bush's numerous collosal failures, period!!" FYI~ This is what we mean when we say DON'T FEED THE TROLL. ~D Posted by: Dommael on May 4, 2004 11:17 PM25 ex military morons,if they're going to sign up I believe Doonsbury still has $10 grand up for grabs for anyone that can prove AWOL served in the ANG. Raj, please. It's "morans." ~D Posted by: Dommael on May 4, 2004 11:41 PMJustonce, will there be debates between Bush and Kerry? If there is an election, I think there will be. Of course, the questions will be given to Bush ahead of time. That happened in Florida in 2002. Jeb and the Democratic challenger Bill McBride were in a debate and were both supposed to be hearing the questions for the first time. Jeb, inadvertantly called one questioner by the next person's name and answered the next person's question instead of the one being asked. Or maybe Jeb didn't get the questions ahead of time--maybe he is psychic. Posted by: Barbara on May 4, 2004 11:50 PMto all let's keep in mind that there is a Full Moon Eclipse tonight at 14 Scorpio and be kind to each other. It'd be nice to talk more astrology as Sally has suggested. I come here for the astrology and truly enjoy the astro-discussions. Beside that this Full Moon eclipse falls on the hmmmm, that's an aspect of either his partner or associates attacking out and/or his enemies (7th house) attacking him and since it squares Mercury, likely a public verbal attack. But it will have greater emphasis because it's on an eclipse. Posted by: Pallas18 on May 4, 2004 11:50 PMI seem to recall some comments that May was supposed to be a relatively good time for Bush. And the shit was supposed to hit the fan in June. If May is this bad for him, June is gonna be a real whopper. Posted by: Dave on May 4, 2004 11:59 PMjust printed out the 15 pg newsletter, and look forward to reading it. it does seem that there seems to be some contradictions going on...some metaphysical schools of thought are saying, a new day is coming, it's all over for the thugs..and some are saying there's this comparison of now to when hitler rose.. and what about sending arnold to israel? what do you think THATS about? (hey wasn't it that pat robertson that kept predicting years ago that the anti-christ would be from europe? i bet you he's changed his tune!)... i mean the thought of arnie in israel really gives me the creeps.. corleonis! i guess you must be referring to me perhaps? i couldn't figure out if you love me or hate me! i get this sort of interpretation a lot..i can only put it down to being raised by two italians who constantly put me down, moreso than to my astrology! i'm ready to bop berscloni (sp) on his bald head! hahahah.. Posted by: Roxanne on May 5, 2004 12:01 AMSomewhere way back up above someone wanted to know about Democrat, Repug, FBI, etc., charts. Check starcats (see righthand sidebar). Claudia has a lot of those up. Pallas and the other expert astrologers, I'd love to talk more astrology if I knew more. Your collective insights are a huge help for learning. Still wondering what your interpretations might be for a) zionist chart (as mentioned above) and b)cia and fbi charts, especially pertaining to all these interesting transits this year. Posted by: Jeanie on May 5, 2004 12:21 AMJeanie, Pallas18: Thanks for your insightful astrological postings here. On the 7th House, Inaug. Chart, Have you see Robert Hand's Article 38, and 39 talking about this very subject (Mars/7th)? Will you go look at it (anyone else too) and tell me/us if you think that Eclipse Moon (the people) would indicate much, much, more than a verbal outburst. In addition, I believe the Robert Hand is very highly regarded in astrological circles, I have his book "Transits", and I trust his judgement alot. Furthermore, these 2 pieces have a very unusual perspective and are fun to read. Posted by: Beverly on May 5, 2004 01:10 AMDave, That should take 'til about June... by then the tide will be coming in... and he probably won't know what hit him... Nancy's right... BTW, I'm not worried about Kerry anymore... for once the Pirates have more on their plate than they can manage... the world is innundated with this mess, who's going to listen to some blah, blah about the war hero? Namaste Posted by: Jo on May 5, 2004 01:11 AMDommael... one of the things which I love about this site and discussion forum is the absence of trolls. Sometimes I check out some of the political blogs and I don't think the occasional disagreements that surface on this board come even remotely close to the repugnant clatter that is all to frequent there. I think one of the keys to a healthy democracy is the capacity among the people to carry on a civil and edifying conversation about the difficult issues that divide us. Honestly, I see that kind of discourse here. I think everyone that contributes here does so sincerely and for the most part without malice. At least to me there doesn't appear to be any right-wing zealots screaming vulgar insults and trying to waylay the discussion. I don't know, but if you think that anyone who even brings up the name of Nader or questions any of Kerry's views is a "troll" then you just lost me. (By the way, I think Raj was right about the spelling of "morons"):)
"One can only wonder if, a Saturn cycle after the Fall of Saigon, America is now fated to redeem herself by not cutting and running in Iraq. To persevere through this violent insurgency until June 30th may heal the shame of the lost war in Vietnam by reclaiming national honor through staying the course." I'm really not sure this is a good thing to do or not but I'm going to take the opportunity on this powerful eclipse day to do what Lisa at astrowisdom recommends an "honor the transformative power of truth-telling" and thus reveal my identity. I am a part-time lecturer in philosophy at the university here and since the fall of 2001 have had my students examining the philosophical question of when, if ever, war is justified. There is a long tradition in the history of western thought that is concerned with precisely this question. The principles that are the result of this long tradition are embedded in international law which condemns "wars of aggression" as war crimes. It is for this reason that at the Western Division of the American Philosophical Association meeting in S.F. in March of 2003, just before the war broke out, that a resolution condemning the war was passed by unanimous consent. It frustrates me to no end that so many Americans are completely oblivious to this, even those who are horrified by Bush, but still think we ought to stay the course in Iraq. I do thus think that perhaps Blaschke doesn't quite get, despite all his other fine insights, the full significance of TPluto in Sag and opposite US Mars. But to be fair he at least admitted he overreacted in the past (what to 911? was he overzealous in support of the war on terrorism?) and perhaps he will eventually really understand the terrible truth about the war on Iraq. Otherwise, I must admit, there was alot of interesting stuff to ponder in his newsletter. So, in honor of the transformative power of truth-telling, here is an essay I wrote last fall: http://www.counterpunch.org/freeman09172003.html Did anyone else just see Joe Wilson on Lou Dobbs? He alluded to a major announcement within 48hours and that it was a "foreign policy catastrophe in the making." Oh,sorry Dommael, I missed your last post while writing my last post. I don't think there are any trolls here at all and that includes you. I really am grateful for this site, the interesting astrological analysis and insightful discussion. By the way, I did a composite of Shrub and the USA Sibley chart and found something interesting: The Vertex lands exactly conjunct the Ascendant which is square to a conjunction of the Sun and N.Node on the MC. What do you astrologers make of that? Is a composite chart between a natal chart and a transit, especially a new or full moon, and most especially an eclipse, even accepted among astrologers? Posted by: Timothy on May 5, 2004 01:30 AMWe've come to the same conclusion, Timothy. I don't think there are any trolls here, either. For the same reasons. "morans" was a joke. Think "nookular." ~D Posted by: Dommael on May 5, 2004 01:42 AMha! ok, just a little slow... Posted by: Timothy on May 5, 2004 01:48 AMVOTE....VOTE....VOTE!!!!!! Should Congress hold hearings on the abuse by the US Military at the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq? http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/wolf.blitzer.reports/ Posted by: JoannaOregon on May 5, 2004 01:56 AMI am not sure what "...I started out like you..." means....it is suggests that I might be new to astology, I am not. I have practiced and taught astrology for nearly 40 years. Mr. Bush's problems are easy to predict and the outcome is evident by simply studying the nature of life's second Saturn return. Saturn is not ever denied. It is a time of major adjustment inside a life's structure and a time when all is both reviewed and redeemed and Mr. Bush has plenty to account for. Saturn makes a station in the return in Mr. Bush's chart, which can be especialy harsh. He is his own undoing. Mr. Kerry is going to have to do very little to defeat him. It is, IMHO, possible that Mr. Bush may no longer want to be President within a few months. Looking at all of the aspects, Mr. Bush has little or no help. His best period for this year is nearing an end. He will have a great deal to cope with personally, professionally and internationally and the forces allied against him are many and varied. Shortly he will begin to use the term Commander in Chief less as an affirmation and more as a burden. The buck does stop at his desk and the problems that are going to be heaped on his plate, most of his own making, will be startling. All the chickens are coming home to roost as they always do. Someone above mentioned the possiblity of war crimes; while I don't think we will have the President and his affiliates being tried in the international courts in fact, they will be tried, and in some arenas have already been convicted, in the courts of public and private opinion. It will, I believe, become increasingly difficult for the President and his cabinet to lead in any meaningful way and the vote will go against him. He will be his own undoing. I believe there will be a small downturn in the economy during September and October mostly as a kind of public depression and retreat until after the election. Then the turn around will be quite dramatic. I do not believe that Mr. Bush's self image will allow for a public arena in which direct and difficult questions about his leadership will be questioned over and over as would occur in a debate. His chart is that of a captured individual with all of his planets and lights in 120 degrees with the focus at the ascendent and the three plants with that sensitive point. He has great difficulty relating in any way to anything outside of himself. And if you look at the aspects for September 30 (when the first Presidential Debate is tentatively scheduled) there is little to suggest a "debate" of any sort. Lots of big talk (Sun, Mercury, Jupiter and Mars conjunct in early Libra) but there is little to lend itself to much more than inconclusive noise. I believe Cheney will read the handwriting on the wall and take his leave of public life. Health reasons would be good enough to smooth the transition. (The Vice President has been living with Pluto square for many months now and it is not over for some time to come....it is not a comfortable aspect and can be emotionally debilitating). His finger prints are all over the US international policy and the war in Iraq and he was the main laison between the CIA, intelligence interests and the White House. The current (and as yet uncovered) U.S. Military pornographic abuses in Iraq will have a major impact on the political climate and Cheney may be implicated if not actually accused as setting the "tone" for the ugly military activities. Here is another question. Is it likely that the current military abuses and atrocities will find their first results in the Supreme Court in regard to the rights of those being held at Guantanimo? It is a matter being reviewed at this time. Can the Justices afford to leave any room for doubt as to the prevention and revelation of abuses at the base to its detainees? Are they now completely obligated to allow for legal rights and inquiry into the prison in order to eliminate the possibility of even remotely condoning torture? And finally. Do you see any likelyhood that there will be protests and street marches such as were held in the 70's in regard to the events in Iraq and/or the military abuses? What do you think? Best, Justonce Posted by: justonce on May 5, 2004 02:00 AMtimothy's post above included I was in need of a joke, too, and this came from a friend of mine today - just in time! What's the 2004 No-Carb Diet? No - C(heney) and.... No RICE! giggling aloud (and allowed, folks! we've got to keep our sense of humor!) Posted by: Baraka on May 5, 2004 02:08 AMWhoo-hoo! Morgana, we need you. Posted by: shylurker on May 5, 2004 02:27 AMWhoo-hoo! Morgana, we need you. Posted by: shylurker on May 5, 2004 02:27 AMWell done Timothy. Jeanie, I saw Amb Wilson on Lou Dobbs but didnt catch that, later he was on Keith Olberman and he More interesting, now we know how this WH works. BRAVO. he has the guts to do it. Apparently previously he had another show, and they tried to So now we know how the WH is controlling the media. But they just barked up the wrong tree. I would say this is the eclipse on Bush's Inaugural 7th cusp conjunct Mars, wouldn't you. How un-nice of me. I'm so happy that we, the opposition, are finally being understood for what we have inherently known about this administration JustOnce~ Merely meant that we all start out posting "just once" on any website. Certainly not meant as an evaluation of your astrology. Namaste~ Posted by: Dommael on May 5, 2004 02:42 AMWelcome Justonce. So glad to have another seasoned astrologer posting. Beverly, Robert Hand is the Einstein of astrology. When I have a chance I'll get over to that site. Joe Wilson was on Larry King Live last night (Monday) after Larry interviewed the family of the recent Iraq hostage who escaped. Joe Wilson shared the stage with a Republican and Congresswoman Jane Harmon. Jonathan Posted by: Jonathan on May 5, 2004 02:57 AMTimothy, "I read Blaschke newsletter too and thought it quite interesting. The one thing that disturbed me about his piece is that he is a good example of someone, who doesn't quite yet understand just how unjustified and immoral the whole war on Iraq really is. Thus he seems, I hope, to miss the point of the Saturn cycle he describes: "One can only wonder if, a Saturn cycle after the Fall of Saigon, America is now fated to redeem herself by not cutting and running in Iraq. To persevere through this violent insurgency until June 30th may heal the shame of the lost war in Vietnam by reclaiming national honor through staying the course." If Saturn is a test of what went before, in this case Blatschke's right. What we did in Viet Nam The fate we left those people to was horrific . We have no legal right to be in Iraq, and we have to find a way out by turning the country over to As Powell (that coward) said, we broke it , we own it. There was a reason Saddaam Hussein kept his foot on the neck of the Iraqis and we are finding that out. Posted by: Pallas18 on May 5, 2004 03:07 AMWell, I don't know... now that we have behaved like barbarians, I think the international community can tell us to leave... and pay for the mess... 'course being the Pirates we are, we'll insist on the oil (treasure) and continue to inflict pain and suffering on the people. Yeah, there was a reason he kept his foot on their neck... he was a dictator... Peace Posted by: Jo on May 5, 2004 03:37 AMI don't quite buy the "we broke it, we own it" argument. For one, its condescending to the Iraqi people to claim that we have to stay there as an occupying force for their own good because they aren't capable of self-rule. But the more important point is that "staying the course" will not work. Yes, we are going to leave the place in a mess when we eventually leave, but if we "stay the course" we will only make things worse. Especially with the revelations about the abuse of prisoners, the anger and resistance to the American occupation is only going to grow. We are either going to have to withdraw or resort to massive force to put down the resistance (freedom fighters actually). I think we are sadly kidding ourselves, just like in Vietnam, if we think "staying the course" is going to lead to salvaging our honor or even freedom and democracy for Iraq. Sounds to me like an echo of what Johnson was saying in 1967-8, and we stayed the course there for another 7 years and 25,000 more American soldiers died along with at least 2 or 3 MILLION Vietnamese, Cambodians and Laotians. How many more have to die as a result of our vain hope of redeeming our honor? Surely we have a responsibility to provide economic assistance in rebuilding Iraq. But if our true intention was to bring "freedom and democracy" to Iraq then we have to relinquish all other interests--that means no American corporation should profit from the rebuilding, and we should relinquish all designs on controlling Iraqi oil resources. In short, the neo-con agenda that is surely the real reason for the war in the first place must be abandoned. Perhaps I'm not reading Blaschke carefully enough, but I got the feeling from the sentence I quoted that he thought the shame of Vietnam was that we lost. The real shame was that we shouldn't have been there in the first place. I don't think we can reclaim our national honor by staying the course. I think instead we may perhaps only regain some of it if we are strong enough to really admit that it was wrong and to abandon the reckless militarism that has so dishonored us, both in Vietnam and in Iraq. Posted by: Timothy on May 5, 2004 03:52 AM""But if our true intention was to bring "freedom and democracy" to Iraq "" That's your little joke right Timothy because you know that was never our intention and so does anyone with an IQ over 60. ""For one, its condescending to the Iraqi people to claim that we have to stay there as an occupying force for their own good because they aren't capable of self-rule."" I didn't say that at all Timothy, but that is a clever twisting of what I did say. That country is in chaos. Daily looting, robbing, anarchy rules. We have a responsibility to see that they have security in their homes. I'm not talking about the kind of security America is looking for, I;m talking about people being secure in their homes from common criminals. That is their complaint. They dont even have that now. We are responsible for breaking order in their country, heating, cooling, water electricity. We should be responsible to restore it. ""that means no American corporation should profit from the rebuilding, and we should relinquish all designs on controlling Iraqi oil resources."" Right. Highly idealistic and correct thinking. but also highly unrealistic. Every war has seen "profiteering". Why do you think Cheney and America may not control the Iraqi oil, but Bush has already seen to his oil company cohorts having built their pipelines. You can bet the arrangements are made for BP, Shell, Unocal etc etc. THAT was what this war was about. To secure If we could bombard every newspaper opinion page with the above paragraph perhaps we could start a That I think is the best that could be hoped for and giving the right to the parents of the dead soldiers to sue the oil companies for their child's loss of life. Posted by: on May 5, 2004 04:24 AMSorry, that was me above, - I forgot to sign. Eclipse on Inauguration 7th house Mars and cusp Senator Joe Biden has just called for the resignation of Rumsfeld and other senior Pentagon officials for having kept this (abuse in the jails) a secret from the United States Congress LOL - BIG SMILE. Gee, if May is good for Bush, I can't wait to see what rough June is going to be for him. Yippee. Posted by: Pallas18 on May 5, 2004 04:30 AMjust read blaschke! pretty amazing..to me the best part was the interpretations of todays eclipse: the beginning of the end of bushie (opp his inaug asc), and the beginning of the beginning of john edwards (conj his m/c)!!!!!! but then we don't need astrology to know that kerry will pick edwards, but it's good to see that pointed out in the stars..validation is always exciting. can someone here write us up a little something on the june 8 venus/sun happening? besides on the mundance level, how does it affect us individually? is it a positive thing as to where it falls in one's chart? or is it just a powerful happening depending on what it aspects in your natal, etc... this is very special this newsletter - if anyone hasn't read it yet, go to! the correlation of the era of 2010-2015 keeps coming up and is no accident huh? between the mayans, and the stars and the mideast AND ISRAEL, and oil, and blaschke's 'religions' consideration factoring in...so fascinating...! well on one hand the 2011 scenario is astro proof bush isn't getting in in 2004! get that grubby little hand off our planet's fast forward button junior! back to to-day wouldn't it be strange if we lost a lot of our admin for this atrocities story? as bush was telling us, "gone are the torture chambers," literally, like to the moments, there was still shit going on, with us doing it...here is where the belief in demons also comes in, which i really believe in...to me that jail must be a major bad vibe place, and so if people go in there, they can become possessed by those demons, and find themselves doing the same atrocities..just my spiritual take on things..unless of course you are spiritually strong, or just 'strong' in general, and we know most military personnel enlist to learn discipline, etc.....to use some bob dylan words from the 60s, 'bent out of shape by society's pliers', there to get a life by becoming a sort of robot... Posted by: Roxanne on May 5, 2004 04:43 AMI dont mean to hog the board but I do want to add Pluto is on Bush's South Node and the gushing has begun!! Posted by: Pallas18 on May 5, 2004 04:44 AM
All the rats are leaving the sinking ship
By George F. Will
Appearing Friday in the Rose Garden with Canada's prime minister, President Bush was answering a reporter's question about Canada's role in Iraq when suddenly he swerved into this extraneous thought: What does such careless talk say about the mind of this administration? Note that the clearly implied antecedent of the pronoun "ours" is "Americans." So the president seemed to be saying that white is, and brown is not, the color of Americans' skin. He does not mean that. But that is the sort of swamp one wanders into when trying to deflect doubts about policy by caricaturing and discrediting the doubters. sorry to have been out of pocket the last week, this is the first time I've had a chance to even take a look. There are some new pages to the site coming and I've been working on that. Great article Nancy and great discussion folks. I did notice that someone asked a couple of times about the FBI and CIA. Those dates are as follows. FBI CIA Here we go, perhaps a sensible exit strategy: http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0504-07.htm Posted by: Timothy on May 5, 2004 07:20 AMThanks so much for the article by Pfaff, Timothy. He is correct. As long as the current crowd is in control (groan), though, I doubt the decision needed to make a complete, deliberate break won't be made. Just imagine would could have been accomplished had they taken those ga-zillions of dollars being spent on wreaking havoc all over Eye-rack and rewarding lucrative contracts to their war-mongering and war-industry-related friends had, instead, been spent on discovery and development of alternative, economic energy. What are the indications of our future in terms of energy sources, astrologers? Posted by: shylurker on May 5, 2004 11:47 AMRegarding that stupid remark about skin color. I once watched a pbs special about the KKK. Just before putting one of the Grand Wizard's in jail, this creep looked in the camera and said, 'we are everywhere', and political offices was one of his examples. Posted by: bhakti on May 5, 2004 12:55 PMSmirky is going to be on ME tv sometime today. I didn't get the time he's scheduled to appear, but I'm sure it will be quite a performance. Posted by: shylurker on May 5, 2004 01:10 PMWonder why he doesn't appear on TV here and apologise to the American people also, for this happening on his watch! Guess that would be too oh not John Wayne, huh? Sally, we miss you.
http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0418/levine.php Posted by: wv on May 5, 2004 01:54 PM
http://www.villagevoice.com/print/issues/0418/perlstein.php Posted by: wv on May 5, 2004 02:03 PMWV, What insightful links? the first is not 'just for Nader lovers' --- you know what they say... know the enemy... Posted by: Jo on May 5, 2004 02:07 PM
http://www.commondreams.org/cgi-bin/print.cgi?file=/views04/0429-11.htm As she said about Hillary Clinton...it rhymes with
www.debka.com As an Arab comedian once said " It takes GWB some If your are going to read an Israeli paper - read http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/LiArt.jhtml?contrassID=2&subContrassID=4&sbSubContrassID=0 Posted by: wv on May 5, 2004 02:32 PMApparently, he will hold forth for ME tv at 10:00 am EDT, today in Washington, DC. Posted by: shylurker on May 5, 2004 02:42 PMThanks Jo, and I am sorry I have been amiss, but Nancy, Isabelle and Morgana do a great job and omg the readers are fantastic, I loved reading the posts last night. How I just want to do this full time, still trying to win the lotto so I can. thanks for the nader article...that's what happens when you try to keep a good man down. just because he has the most progressive platform doesn't mean he's not human and will not respond to people who put down his agenda which, at the end of the day is more for the people...so there ya go. and they absolutely were tweedledee and tweedledom, and maybe next time people like al gore will return phone calls to someone who could ruin his career..once again, a proven idiot. Posted by: Roxanne on May 5, 2004 04:22 PMVOC moon, huh? I thought so, but not being an astrologer, I had hoped one of you would respond. Thanks so much for doing so, Sally. Those guys can't even get their timing down straight. Posted by: shylurker on May 5, 2004 04:40 PMAccording to drudge, he used a big word: "Abhorrent." Posted by: shylurker on May 5, 2004 04:45 PMJUSTONCE: I just posted a message for you on the previous article "The Madness of King George". I dont know how it got there as I wasn't reading there and haven't looked there for several day. Will you please read it and respond? WELCOME. Posted by: Beverly on May 5, 2004 06:27 PMHello, Beverly. Here's your post, so that everyone here can review it. "JUSTONCE: Thanks for interesting comments on Bush. Please continue to share them with us. I would love to hear more of your ysis. Don't you think also, that Bush's Saturn will be going under the horizon (plus/minus) 1-1/2 yrs., at which time it will be almost impossible for him to achieve any success, as the plant will be more focused on inner restructuring and not active in the outer world (houses 7-12)? In addition, one's personal energy is curtailed. However, R. Hand does describe Bush's "receptive sun" as very successful and vital, and perhaps he won't feel the lowered physical vitality the way others do because of this. Do you have an opinion on this? I have not heard or read much discussion on this, but feel it could be quite significant, as experienced by my own Saturn under the horizon for the last 14 years" I agree with your views on Saturn moving into the first house below the horizon. And in Mr Bush's case that won't occur for another year or so and in the meantime he has a powerful Saturn return; and how he deals with that will have an influence on how Saturn works for him when it move into his first house and further into his personal houses. That said, I suspect that when Saturn moves to the first and begins to conjunct those three planets he will have a personal reckoning as those planets relate to the houses they rule. Mr. Bush's sun is fire in water and I believe that underneath the public presentation lurks a good deal of boiling over and that the inner bush is often steamed! (His sun is in the natural house of Pisces and I believe that that wet sun in fire in 12th house was the root of his unhealthy use of alcohol). Occasionally that part of his sun's influence does leak through. His sun is squared off to the Moon/Jupiter conjunction (some would include Chiron as also important there) and they are airey in the third houses and accounts for his lack of skill as a public speaker and how careful he must be to follow notes and the promptor. He is given to extreme emotional exaggeration....at times it looks as though he can hardly contain himself. As Saturn returns to conjunct his sun and immediately moves to square both the moon and Jupiter I believe we could see a large explosive gaff. Probably in relation to Iraq (but that's a guess) As Venus moves through her paces she passes Uranus in Mr. Bush's chart three time and the first time was just two weeks ago. The prison cruelty was revealed as Venus passed over the Node next to Uranus in Mr. Bush's chart....certainly has brought transparancy and revealed some well hidden and embarrassing events of considerable magnatude. The Venus retrograde is going to bring a kind of astonishing transparancy to all kinds of events. It will continue to be very revealing. And not just for Mr. Bush, but in many aspects of life for each of us. It is worth sitting down with your own chart and review aspects that Venus makes between now and August when she returns the place where she first moved retrograde and see what can be gleaned. If you approach this with the idea that there are unknown things that you would like to have known and possibly even understood for the first time, you can make very valuable use of this exceptional Venus event. It can be very enlightening. What do you think?
But the real deal is in his Saturn return which starts in mid August and runs through the election and on into 2005. At the time of the election Mr. Bush's midheaven is badly aspected by both the Saturn return conjunction and Mars. This is not the making of a good series of events as indicates a sharp (mars) restructuring (Saturn/Saturn) public image and professional standing (10th, MC). Over the next short period...now through August....the unusual and important Venus retrograde will occur and I believe that it will bring a series of revelations (for much of that time it is opposed to Pluto). While generally the contacts between Pluto and Venus are more personal and generally are kindly in nature, part of this transit involves a powerful passage of Venus between the earth and the Sun. As that occurs (first two weeks in June are the orb of influence) the energy of the sun will be pushing all the Venus energy in one direction and it will preduce a stunning, non-violent brilliant light that reveals some amazing realities. I believe it is a time when nothing can be hidden and the truth will out. Posted by: on May 6, 2004 03:21 AMJUSTONCE: Thank you for this excellent analysis. It is just full of ideas I can review and learn from. Also, the personal tip on Venus is much appreciated as I am going through some very, very rough times (since January) with no job, no unemployment, no income, and no help. Will study Venus in my chart to she how she can help. Venus is in my 6th house of work/service/health in Gemini. In view of your comments above, would you care to make a comment on whether you think Bush will complete his term? Only if you feel comfortable with doing that. I know it is a very wide open and general question. Posted by: Beverly on May 6, 2004 05:29 PMHello, Beverly. Yes, I believe that Mr. Bush will complete this term as President. I know there are some historical inferences that President's who serve at certain times are destined to meet with a bad end while still in office. Mr. Reagan was the last to be treated to this possibility but he did survive to complete two terms despite being shot. There are other ways of "not finishing" and one of those possibilities is to become depressed, mentally unstable or just space out and either unable or unwilling to complete a term of office. There is some evidence that Mr. Reagan was having those kinds of incidents both while in office and certainly afterwards. In Mr. Bush's case there is a certain unstability surrounding the Saturn return that occurs this Fall in his chart. The condition of his natal Saturn is quite unstable. It is square to the midheaven, in Cancer (not a friendly home for sturdy Saturn) and in a watery house closely associated with Pisces, self undoing, hidden thing, secrets and the vague and uncertain. When overlayed with a similar Saturn transit by conjunction the uncertainty of the natal form is greatly enhanced so as to become dominant, since in this case there is little in the chart to off set its impact. It is possible that could produce an inner instability and Mr. Bush may find being President unattractive. He would not be the first to have a nasty foreign war terminate his interest in the Presidency....LBJ decided not to run again because of the conditions around Vietnam. Some things to think about. Justonce Posted by: justonce on May 6, 2004 08:15 PMJustonce: Thank you so much for taking the time to respond so throughly to my questions. I will review them over and over, and can even use some of your concepts to apply to my own Saturn return in a few more years. Posted by: Beverly on May 7, 2004 12:33 AMJustonce: I read your posting again from May 5 and find the questions you presented in the last 2 paragraphs fascinating. I may have something to say about about the detainee issue later. Need to think about it. In the meantime, I do want to say that I have been hoping that ONE Conservative Justice would see the consequences of their historic decision of 2001 and decide to vote FOR DISCLOSURE on the Energy Task Force Documents. I have always felt that there are tremendous secrets there that we all need to know about, in addition to shedding some much needed light on the corruption of this administration. They need to uphold the 4 previous decisions of the lower courts. I am hoping that, that ONE Justice will be feeling much regret and decide to do the right thing. This conversation is very interesting. Guess you and I are the only ones that want to talk here. To tell you the truth, I wasn't done with comments on this article as there were over 350 posts, much to read, think about, and talk about. Some of us have talked here about the apathy of the American people, and is of great concern to me and many of the posters here. So maybe we can bring it up again as it relates to your question about "people protesting". Posted by: Beverly on May 7, 2004 01:25 AMlower than either doses may may in better pain acetaminophen Ultracet Buy Ultracet Ultracet Online Overnight Ultracet Ultracet Side Effects FedEx Ultracet Ultracet Pills Ultracet Store Get Ultracet Internet Ultracet http://www.ultracet-web.com of provide acts are used together In to pain. 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