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The Madness of King George by Isabelle Ghaneh
I tremble. That’s what Bob Woodward said to Mike Wallace on his 60 Minutes interview concerning George Bush’s attempt to remake the world and “free” the people therein. Does George Bush want to install US army bases in Iraq and determine Iraq’s constitution? How is this setting the captives free? Isn’t that more of a “Roman Empire” view of the world, remaking it in the image of George Bush and his own personal version of a fundamentalist Christen God? Who is George Bush anyway, mentally and emotionally? GB was born to an elite old money family in the northeast, but he talks and acts like a good ole boy Texas oil man. Wherever did he get that accent and swagger? From his vacations in Maine? From Harvard? He disdains ‘fancy pants intellectualism’ as beneath him, yet he was sent to Harvard, the crème de la crème of exclusive colleges, by his rich father. What did he do there? Obviously being in a classroom with students who could think hurt his ego. Perhaps that is why he doesn’t try his brain cells all that much anymore.
GB is a born again religious Christian who embraces the apocalypse. He stole the presidential election and believes it was God’s will that he do so, and that he is God’s chosen messenger to free all the people on earth, yet his crimes against civil rights in his own country is staggering. He covers up Picassos in the U.N. so the motif Picasso employed of the horrors of war do not interfere with his own plan of bombing the people he intends to set free. His Attorney General drapes blue cloth over nude statues, so the unwitting are not exposed to any artistic representation that this unintellectual finds disquieting…. Where is he coming from? Now looking critically at GB’s chart, I see a few things. The Sun, his ego, is square the Moon, Jupiter, Neptune, Chiron and Juno. Now I ascribe to the theory that the Sun and Moon placement shows our parents’ relationship at birth and a square shows there was discord with Bush’s parents at his birth. His Sun square Jupiter shows his tendency to exaggerate and square Neptune his delusional tendencies, aka his early escape into alcohol and drugs. So right away we see his feminine and masculine sides are not in harmony within himself, he is not on an even keel due to his overacting Jupiter and escapist Neptune and Chiron the wounded healer is something he cannot relate to and Juno the marriage asteroid is not in an easy aspect to him, again ego wise. The third house is the house of the mind. Let’s go there. King George has Neptune, CHIRON, the Moon, Juno and Jupiter in attendance. The ruler of the third house is Mercury, since Virgo at 22 degrees is the cusp. Now before I get into the aspects I just want to say there is a repetition of the same planets that are against the Sun, his sense of who he is, in the third house. Neptune in the third can lead to foggy thinking, delusional thinking; believing our own fantasies of what we want to see in the world, not what is real. Chiron shows his issues of feeling wounded mentally, and his sense of being wounded in his ability to communicate, which affects his speech patterns. So there is a real problem there, not only do his words come out garbled but his thinking is garbled. Jupiter can lead to grandiose thinking, a sense of ‘I’m king of the world’. Jupiter and Neptune can be traced to any religious fanaticism the person being chart analyzed might possess. So yes GB can certainly believe that he and he alone was singled out for a divine mission by his father, not his earthly father, but his divine father in heaven, looking down on him and leading him into the paths of righteousness. The Moon leads GB to be overly emotional in his thinking, and again the Moon can be very changeable. Pallas, the asteroid of wisdom, is square to Neptune, again showing GB’s inability to reason logically and think logically. Mercury the ruler of the third, is conjunct Pluto and conjunct the ascendant. This can of course mean the person is a deep thinker, but it can also mean fanaticism of the worst kind invades his thought process especially since it is coupled with the sign Leo, which is fixed and intolerant. The 12th house of the unconscious mind is ruled by the Moon, which is conjunct Chiron in the third. Again, his unconscious mind is linked to his conscious mind and both are prone to the underlying mood swings Cancer can be famous for. Saturn, representing the father is also in the 12th. To say Bush has issues with his father is the understatement of the year. It is easy to surmise from this placement that Bush has replaced his real father with his version of the perfect father and this perfect father who leads him, guides him and loves him is registered in his unconscious mind. This perfect father is the one Bush prays to for guidance and Bush would be unaware of how much this father in heaven is simply his own attempt to give himself an inner child version of the good daddy . Bush plays this out over and over again with Cheney, and with any strong authority figure. Since the Moon rules the 12th Bush is unaware of how he reacts to this, he just goes with his feelings and his feelings produce the mental images he wants and needs. Transiting Pluto at 22 Sagittarius is squaring Bush’s third house cusp and has been off and on for a while now. Pluto, the dark lord of all inner demons, is focusing his brutal no holds barred energy on the third house. Witness Bush’s press conference, his arrogance, his seeming to be a little off, his head movements, his sneering at the reporters, all of this is Bush’s attempt to to deal with the Pluto energy he is experiencing and cannot deal with. Bush’s progressed ascendant is at 21 degrees of Virgo, one degree away from an exact conjunction with his third house. Surely his inner self is now very caught up with his thinking process. The progressed 10th house cusp is at 20 degrees of Gemini, one degree past an exact conjunction with Uranus. That could account for the erratic face he has presented to the world. Progressed Mars is one degree away from conjuncting the Moon and his anger and combativeness is just stating to explode. The progressed Sun is conjunct his natal Mars, again a repetition of the earlier theme of Mars influence. This is one angry dude. He’s angry emotionally and ego wise. He cannot admit he is wrong; he can’t even see he is wrong. His grandiose out of this world Jupiter and Neptune placement in the third house doesn’t let him see the truth. His Pluto conjoining Mercury and the ascendant doesn’t let him see the truth. His fanaticism is very apparent in all this. Transiting Chiron is opposite his Saturn in the 12th. A bad placement for someone as unaware as Bush. His inner self must know on some level the hardness and the lack of love and respect he felt from his father, but he can’t see that or won’t allow himself to see, so he compensates by manufacturing his fantasy father in heaven who is always right and kind and good and loving and guides him and tells him what to do. Since Bush ascribes to a strict fundamentalist Christian view of the world this ties right in with his feeling that no matter what he does, its okay, since God his father will be there for him up in heaven, waiting with open arms to bless him and say well done my good and faithful servant. How can you argue with a belief system like that? Now with Pluto opposite Mars, not just for a year or so transit wise, but also captured for the next two years in the U.S. Mars return chart, we can expect to see more violence and bloodshed and fires and explosions abounding, here and in the world at large. How this will figure into Bush’s mind set is incalculable, but one can image him reading the Book of Revelations as a newspaper. Lets just hope we don’t all end up doing the same thing.
Sally Cheyne McDonald on Apr 22 | Link
Comments
Isabelle, this is a wonderful piece, so well written (that's an understatement) but also it gives the reader much to learn (that's me!) about the delineation of the natal chart. Thank you very much for sharing this very informational and interesting article. I truly think it is a masterpiece - you got this man down better than anything I've ever read. Posted by: Laurie on April 22, 2004 12:03 PMThanks, Isabelle, a great article and those last two sentences certainly sum it up. Posted by: Barbara on April 22, 2004 01:21 PMBush went to Yale, not Harvard. See http://www.georgewbush.org/bios/yale-transcript.asp Other than that, good, interesting, scary. Posted by: taterhead on April 22, 2004 01:28 PMTaterhead, namaste Posted by: Jo on April 22, 2004 01:40 PMtaterhead....... Isabelle, Your analysis of his 12th house is quite instructive... gives plenty of explanation for why of all in his administration, Condi, as a female, is his mentor, is the one who gives him instruction and counsel. Cheney plays in to his vulnerability to be misled (as Nancy brought out earlier), and feeds his image of the perfect heavenly father. The merging of his conscious and unconscious certainly don't help his thinking process... so his father is locked away with his own ego in the 12th house? He can't drop enough bombs to win this battle can he? And karma (Saturn) in the 12th house? No wonder he needs so many vacations in Crawford, clearing brush! I haven't scrutinized his chart... thank you for doing so... first of all, I don't have your abilitly to delineate and my bias is too strong to see him clearly. You have connected some dots for me that give me the ability to understand his apparent callousness... I could be compassionate for him if he weren't controlling the world at the moment. He should never have been put in this position. Americans have bought into his persona, his Leo mask and with Karl Rove's machinations he is fully clothed. But Morgana raises a point... "Transiting Pluto continues to remake our national image, and right now that is awfully ugly, violent, intollerant, uncompassionate, oh that's right we've a psycho dry drunk representing the best of our nation. Says a lot about us as a people don't you think?" Apparently it's not a mistake that he's in the White House. There are no 'accidents' right? He manifests all that we need to transform about ourselves... Nancy nailed it recently about our collective addiction "to oil" --- Well, Isabelle you've certainly drawn an accurate picture of our leader... 'madness' - 'king' very, very accurate. Thank you. Namaste Isabelle, great piece! I concur with what Laurie & Jo said- thanks! Especially interesting to me was this: "So right away we see his feminine and masculine sides are not in harmony within himself, he is not on an even keel due to his overacting Jupiter and escapist Neptune and Chiron the wounded healer is something he cannot relate to and Juno the marriage asteroid is not in an easy aspect to him, again ego wise." I read this morning that the king is hiv+, his long-known partner is the mayor of Knoxville, Tn. Pure gossip????? Posted by: Peg on April 22, 2004 03:31 PM
Buzzflash has posted a link to a photo of Bush (posted on left of page about midway down this morning). Recent AP photo. Take a look: Bush is holding his fingers like a gun. His lips are curled just like Cheney's characteristic expression. More good reading http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,4907528-103677,00.html Posted by: wv on April 22, 2004 04:25 PMGreat article!! I love reading the astrological analysis of the people and events that are happening now. I just realized too that one of my relatives has much in common chart-wise with "King George" i.e., Cancer sun, Leo rising, and sun square neptune from the 12th to the 3rd, but he is nothing like described above. John has a tendency to believe outlandish stories and he'd do just about anything for you. I was just thanking the higher powers that his other planetary placements are different from GWB, especially his Pisces moon. Posted by: Teresa on April 22, 2004 04:25 PMIsabelle - Excellent article!! Your best yet. You really nailed it about the underlying issues with his (perhaps unavailable or unaccepting) father as the reason for his connection to the all-forgiving and totally accepting Heavenly Father. I wonder if this issue plays out in a lot of the born-again Christians. But this reality doesn't take away from the "replacing one addiction for another" reality. I think that is true also. That 12th house wants to lose itself into something greater, larger, more magical, whether drugs or religious experience or delusion. Isabelle - A truly excellent dissection of his chart. Thank you. It is also worth noting that his progressed Mars is conjunct his natal Chiron now through about mid-October, so he is really feeling the wounds and discomfort of his 3rd house of communication. It gets a boost from progressed Moon semisquare natal Chiron from around 10/1 to 10/20. I think he will be very uncomfortable on the campaign trail doing his necessary speaking engagements. Posted by: Nancy on April 22, 2004 05:07 PMJust a wonderful article Isabelle! I posted it over on Salon, as I'm sure the readers and posters there will find it most helpful as well. Thanks so much for your insights. Posted by: Pat on April 22, 2004 05:27 PMhttp://au.news.yahoo.com//040421/11/onif.html Koppel Says News, Entertainment a Dangerous Mix Speaking at the Hollywood Radio & Television Society's newsmaker luncheon at the Beverly Hilton, Koppel said putting news personalities into non-news programs and settings has been a slippery slope for journalists ever since legendary CBS News anchor Edward R. Murrow agreed to host the celebrity interview series "Person to Person" in order to get the network to boost the news division's overall budget. Koppel, who has been a reporter, anchor and producer at ABC News for nearly 40 years, quoted from a 1958 speech in which Murrow warned that television was increasingly being used to "distort, delude, amuse and insulate us," which Koppel termed a prescient warning of what has come to pass. In the early days of television, news divisions were seen as loss leaders for the networks, a means of serving the public interest while broadcasters raked in profits. But today, with profit margins squeezed by increased competition, news divisions are expected to carry their own weight and turn a profit, a motive that often conflicts with the traditional editorial decision-making process. "When we began taking our journalism more lightly, people began taking us less seriously," Koppel said. Koppel did not cite any contemporary specifics, but in recent weeks NBC has taken a drubbing from journalism watchdogs for devoting a two-hour installment of newsmagazine "Dateline NBC" to its reality hit "The Apprentice." More... Posted by: Pat on April 22, 2004 05:28 PM
His father or father's friends have had to bail him out over and over. This in itself makes one resentful of the father. Hurts the ego, when one can't live up to the old man. He has no insight that he is trying to out do daddy. Posted by: jean on April 22, 2004 05:42 PMNancy, I asked a question on last thread that I'm still interested in... Nancy? tNeptune has recently moved into nUSA 3rd house of communication, media... does that indicate we can expect to see this 'fog' over the media for quite awhile? Along the lines of media and communication, Dubya made a speech to Newspaper Association of America Annual Convention [guess we know who Media favors!] there's a link to transcript NYT headline is supporting Admin's campaign to envelope this nation and the world in an atmosphere of 'fear' --- "the terrorists are coming" "the terrorists are coming" !! And another interesting note: the NYT piece appeared in their Campaign 2004 section, so even they recognize it as political... Posted by: Jo on April 22, 2004 05:48 PMisabelle...thanks for the analysis..i always enjoy your work..in the mountain astrologer as well. what makes me nervous is this angry psycho has his finger on the button till mid january...any really bad aspects for him anger wise (as in a peak performance day!), between early november and mid january? i also actually sometimes read revelation like a newspaper it's hard not to, these days, what with usama running around free (comedian robin williams: how do you not find a 6 foot 4 arab with a dialysis machine?). but i don't think bush really reads the bible..unless he is really evil and is enjoying his role as sealing the usa fate as the literal (now) whore of babylon (ancient iraq), which is destroyed by the beast (interpreted by some messianic jews as fundy islam kookoos a la usama). PEG! where did you read the rumor? about bush and mayor knoxville?? fascinating stuff..the kind of thing that is TRES TRES IMPORTANT..in bringing the whole gop DOWN - their followers (some are real christians) will never stand for it! the true way to dismantle the gop is to expose sicko pat robertson as well as if any of this homosexual stuff is true..then you can run a monkey for pres on the dem tix and he'd win in a landslide...it's really jimmy carter's job to do this, i wish god would tell 'im!!!!! hahahah.. (maybe) Posted by: Roxanne on April 22, 2004 05:54 PMthat's king george of arabia! really he goes to TEXAS for CHRISTMAS???? can anyone say j edgar hoover? there was the stories about how he had two boys masturbating him as they read from the bible... very interesting stuff, however disgusting..someone's gotta jump on this! Posted by: Roxanne on April 22, 2004 05:58 PMPosted on Salon: I don't know if others have observed this, but it seems more and more clear that the Bush regime "mistake" of scattering al-Qaeda from their relatively contained base of Afghanistan, was actually a move that benefited the Bushies greatly. Now that al-Qaeda can be claimed to have "dispersed" around the world, we have a true successor to Communism. We have an excuse to invade anywhere, anytime, anyplace that conveniently has interesting natural resources or ports or a trade route. And all in the name of fighting a nameless, faceless enemy that we just know is out there, threatening our Murican way of life. It's not just Ay-rabs that have taken the place of No. 1 Enemy that used to be filled by Communists. It's al-Qaeda Commie-types, whom we created in Afghanistan, and have now deployed, or dispersed, seemingly around the world. As the church lady would say, how convenient. You so right, Miss Pat, Sick isn't it? Peace Posted by: Jo on April 22, 2004 06:45 PMRoxanne, just google up Bush Ashe sex. Posted by: Miss Tery on April 22, 2004 06:47 PMIsabelle ~ what can I say? A *perfect* analysis of the Heavens and the Earth. Ya'll are truly doing a public service announcement here. Thanks for supplying a forum and the fuel for characters such as I to deconstruct politics, the internet and the nature of the cosmos. It's changing things for the better and lighting a candle against the darkness. I marked on my calender a while back that April 21-24 would be an intense time, astrologically. You guys weren't kidding, were you?!? Things are swinging into high gear and I encourage all to think positively now and in the future. On a side note, did I hear that the person who is responsible for those flag-draped pics of coffins (see www.bartcop.com in the section with the running list of casualties)lost her job over it? Hello, can we say this is beyond CENSORSHIP to the *nth degree and is the worst example yet of the Bu$h administration weilding a great big hammer to crush dissent? If anyone has a link regarding this story I'd appreciate it. I even read that Bartcop had his very first run-in with the Department of Homeland Security over his radio show slamming Bu$h's PC. If anyone is a lurker and is thinking about the right time to get involved ~ now might be a good time. Contact your reps in the Govt, donate to your favorite progressive websites, light candles in the psyches of people who aren't up-to-par on current events. Dig it? Namaste~ ~D Posted by: Dommael on April 22, 2004 06:49 PMIt's very hard to maintain objectivity as astrologers when we see what is happening is so wrong or dangerous. Someone on this site made the comment about a friend who had some of the same aspects as GWB and that friend wasn't anything like Bush. We do a disservice as astrologers when we judge a person's complete psyche as right or wrong. We all have light and shadow housed within our energies but this chart shows energies that are easily molded and he is. He deals with a subconscious that is overly anxious to please, nervous if he cannot please and all that is needed to get him to do someone's bidding is flattery, it doesn't matter if it's false or not. I would like to point out that if you are a friend of George Bush you are the recipient of generosity, loyalty, and some sincerity and an absolute pointed vision to the exclusion of all else. Those are qualities that can work for good or ill. We have judged them to be for "ill" but his friends and those of like minds judge them to be for the good. It would however be to his best interest to ask "why is the pool of people who see me as right shrinking?" And that is a question we should put forward to our own friends still enamored with Mr. Bush and his group. After 38 years of astrology and thousands upon thousands of charts of clients, historical, political, famous and the criminal I have only seen one chart that chilled me to the bone and it wasn't George Bush or even Adolph Hitler or the Medici's or anyone a person would suppose, but he is in this administration and until now rarely named. GWB has a tremendous amount of world collective Bush and this administration is going to go on stripping this country and it will take at least 20 years to undo all that has already been done even if he is gone tomorrow. If each one of us could take a few minutes everyday and envision him out of the White House, out, and never a Bush there again. Posted by: Sally on April 22, 2004 07:00 PMDommael, you can see the photo that ignited this firestorm at dailykos.com or whatreallyhappened.com or several other places. The photographer and her husband lost their jobs... we've been waiting for that to happen since several days ago when photo first appeared in newspaper... last week NYT showed collage of 64 Americans killed up to that time in Iraq in April and the Washington Post did a picture of coffins being removed from plane... It's strange... some of the biggest firestorms start with a seemingly small gesture... in this case, one brave woman who took the picture... Dubya needs to buy a black suit and start going to funerals... we don't treat our fallen like fodder... we honor them and support their families ... even the repugs know that... he's overstepped the line this time... Posted by: Jo on April 22, 2004 07:05 PMComplete Timeline of 911 - so far http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0416/mondo1.php Posted by: Pat on April 22, 2004 08:04 PMSally, your little teaser has succeeded and I'm so curious!!! Who is this person rarely named "until now" in the administration with the chilling chart??!! Don't tell, I think we should all start guessing and maybe someone will get the trophy. How intriguing. Posted by: Laurie on April 22, 2004 08:40 PMSally, Your comments are right on. As I read the analysis of Bush's chart, I was thinking " How would a Bush supporter interpret this." Or, "How would an astrologer with no knowledge of whose chart is was, interpret it." The astrological chart is full of patterns. It is not predetermined how we play out the patterns. There are predispositions. Things are in possibility and probabality. The purpose is for us to grow and evolve and hopefully express the higest expression of these patterns. It's not written in stone. And things change moment to moment as the individual consciousness changes with every thought, every opinion, every action, every projection. And EACH individual affects the whole. Our polarities are showing again. Perhaps there is another way, one that goes beyond polarity. Envision the hightest for all. Perhaps that is what the outer planet transits are trying to teach us. Pluto says transform. Neptune says aspire to the highest. Uranus says Wake up and Saturn says assume responsibility. This is true for each of us. Posted by: jaycee on April 22, 2004 08:49 PMSally, It's my belief that we carry our deeds with us when we pass... it is our deeds that create effect... what some call karma... at the moment and for the past three years GWB has created volumes of karma... his 'potential' is unknown... I don't think many people in this country have met him, been charmed by him... they see him as he is 'packaged' and presented... only about one half connect deeds with him... if you're rapture/ready, he's your man... if you want to 'kick butt' he's your man... can't miss, can you... I am sorry but I can't get warm and fuzzy about Dubya... there are maimed children in Iraq, there are fallen Americans, fallen Iraqis, too much unnecessary carnage and destruction for me to be warm and fuzzy about the 'potential' in his chart... we all make our choices... I happen not to like his... and unfortunately they affect me. I don't think we go looking for the bad in Dubya's chart... I think we going looking, hoping to find an explanation, an understanding for the damage he is doing. As for the people who support him... there were supporters for Reagan even when they learned of Iran-Contra scandal... there were supporters for Nixon when Watergate blew... and yes there were supporters for Clinton when his scandal was revealed... I'm sure all these people have good energy also... it's how we choose to direct our energy that counts... I've not reached the "ah so" stage of the budhist... the ability to stand calm in the raging storm... I'm trying... but I can't look at the flag-draped coffins and maimed children and find compassion for GWB. Posted by: Jo on April 22, 2004 09:27 PMAmen to that Jo. Posted by: Pat on April 22, 2004 09:38 PMAnti-war.com has article up --- reporter inside Iraq talking about conditions there last 2-3 weeks and now; long, but informative. http://www.balkanalysis.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=333 Posted by: Jo on April 22, 2004 09:40 PMgoog guess Dommael... other candidates: Paul Wolfowitz, the prime architect of PNAC? Richard Pearl, the "Prince of Darkness"? Posted by: Timothy on April 22, 2004 09:59 PMFeith. Posted by: shylurker on April 22, 2004 10:02 PMJo, My comments were not only about GWB but about our individual responsibilities.
It's the intensity almost bordering on hatred creeping into the language on so many blogs and in so many news articles and on the airwaves (no parties excluded) that I find troubling. Do we really want to experience hatred for another human being. I guess what I've been trying to say perhaps in too many words is that it's not the what but the how. Posted by: jaycee on April 22, 2004 10:09 PMI am all for compassion. Isabelle's wonderful article helps me come close to opening my heart in regards to George W Bush. But, even the Buddha gives one permission to throw overboard the guy who is intent on sinking the boat that you and others are all travelling in. Posted by: Sharon on April 22, 2004 10:50 PMWithout naming names, Sally, can you tell us why this chart you mentioned is so chilling? Posted by: Teresa on April 22, 2004 10:55 PMJaycee, You posted in your blog above: "If half of the country envisons Bush out of the White House, and the other half is praying for him to stay in the White House, which side will win? and which side is right? or wrong? Is any one side all right or all wrong?" I'm sorry you have a question about which side is right or wrong. I don't. I want him OUT and I'm doing more than praying/meditating about it. I write emails everyday... I read, research --- hours every day... that's what I have done all my life... I do it now as a matter of survival. Dubya's policies are shredding our Bill of Rights, damaging our environment, killing our young men and women... the litany goes on and on. GWB is not his chart, anymore than a map is the trip. I think you and I should agree to disagree on this one. I want Dubya out of the White House. Amen. Namaste
Have any of you seen this at Yahoo... Jo, that Scott Taylor article was ... sobering ~ the most hardcore, straight-talking piece of journalism I've read in a loooong time. I'm planning on introducing it to my amigos, but I've got to treat this one tactfully. Somebody who gets all their news from the TV might go into shock after giving it a read. Thanks for the referrel. ~D Posted by: Dommael on April 22, 2004 11:25 PMCheck that, maybe that yahoo article is the most sobering thing I've read in a long time. ::sheesh!:: Posted by: Dommael on April 22, 2004 11:28 PM
http://www.misleader.org/daily_mislead/Read.asp?fn=df04222004.html This site is worth subcribing to...it's free! Posted by: wv on April 22, 2004 11:43 PMJo, more than half want him out, nearly the entire world wants him out, we in the US are just a small part of the rest of the world. It remains to be seen if the 'powers that be' or think they 'be' want him out. Most of the world sees him very clearly and it's a puzzle to me why we in the US don't see that, I do think the media has a great deal to do with how America views this guy. An astro friend of mine thinks we are struggling with the arc-types of the last century, I would suggest we are struggling with the dark side of the world for the last 1000 years. I cannot get over this, it feels to me as if the gates of hell has been thrown open and we are looking at what is rushing out. It's also amazing to me that people in this country can acknowledge and see there are dictators or insane leaders around the world but never ever think it would happen here. I've heard that the human brain cannot hold two disparate thoughts at the same time, such as "we are good but our leaders are bad." So when we decide we are 'good' we form with like minded people, let's say we call ourselves Republican and Democrat. So if I am good and I am a Democrat then Democrats are good or if I am good and I am a Republican then Republicans are good. If I have to say that the leaders in my party are bad, if all the leaders there are bad or liars or corrupt our brain says we have to then look at ourselves and most of us shy away from that kind of honest look. I can look at an astrological chart and tell if someone is conservative or liberal, but not necessarily how they will vote. As an example I have a brother and if you talked to him you would walk away saying he was a Republican or conservative, because his views are conservative. However, our father was very liberal and a Democrat, my brother adored our father and so he is registered a Democrat and will vote as a Democrat and never question the fact that his views are conservative. Because our father was a really good man, my brother identifies with him and wants to identify with him. I know Republicans the same way. The Conservatives (the normal ones, not the right-wing or neo-cons) are having a tremendous struggle here because they are terrified to admit what their leader is, and each day it's harder and harder to ignore what he is, so they are having to look at themselves, question themselves and their beliefs. This is not easy. Remember Civil Rights, it's taken 30 years to even begin to step beyond our racism and some still struggle with it. Once I said to someone I didn't like Bush and he said "look at the polls you are in the minority" I told him to look at the world's polls that puts us in the majority. It isn't a matter of conservative or liberal being right or wrong, it's a matter of the GWB formula for simplicity, "this is wrong," and the world sees it, in time so will the majority in America. Posted by: Sally on April 22, 2004 11:52 PM
http://www.drudgereport.com/dover.htm The lady the took some of the pictures was fired! Posted by: wv on April 22, 2004 11:59 PMJO: I want him OUT too and the sooner the better. When I think about the 57% of Americans who still think going to war was the "right thing to do" (NPR this a.m.)my stomach churns in knots and I become so hopeless about positive changes ever coming to our beloved Country unless the people WAKE UP! It doesn't seem like anything will ever bring these criminals down. They are so entrenched. Wasn't there some talk on this site a while back and a question posed if the American people would rise up? Does anyone know? More on O'Neill and Margaret Wilson - Links included We found out earlier today that John O'Neill, the guy Bush trotted out to attack Kerry's military service, also did Nixon's dirty anti-Kerry work (in addition to clerking for Rehnquist). A partisan hack spanning multiple administrations. We also found out that he's a partner at the Houston firm of Clements, O'Neill, Pierce, Wilson and Fulkerson. One of his co-partners is Margaret Wilson, who was George Bush's general counsel 1998-2000. Well, there's more about good ol' Margaret. She was a lawyer at Vinson & Elkins before she worked for Bush. Vinson & Elkins was Enron's main law firm -- the very firm that facilitated Enron's frauds. Vinson & Elkins was also the firm that spawned Al Gonzales -- Bush's current general counsel. In other words, Vinson & Elkins and COPWF are the very embodiment of the Houston good ol' boy Republican network. That this network spawn Kerry's harshest critic should be of no surprise (his career was probably made thanks to the Nixon dirty work). Thus, there should be no illusions that O'Neill is in any way an independent and impartial critic of John Kerry. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/4/22/1551/39504 Posted by: Pat on April 23, 2004 12:10 AMSally: Do you mind if we take guesses on who your "chilling" character is? Are you going to tell us? Sally, Yes, Beverly, you're absolutely correct, the system needs changing, but we've got to rescue it first! Hang in there... change is a coming... we can't redecorate the kitchen when the house is on fire! It's okay not to be crazy about a candidate... but you need to feel safe with him... and I will feel safe with Kerry. I'm experiencing a little bronchitis at the moment... can't talk... so the keyboard is hot! Pat, I wrote my Repub Senator about the Haiti situation six weeks ago... got a reply today... actually two... both the same... both dated March 30 --- you'll be interested to know that according to his letter: Pat, see how confused we were by those telephone conversations Aristide had with Congresswoman Maxine Waters and later with Amy Goodman. I think I'll send the Congresswoman one of these letters (I can be generous, after all I have two) and see if she can't get her thinking straightened out by reading the good Senator's reassuring words. Sally, thank you again for your words... for sharing the personal information about your family. And especially for this wonderful board. Namaste Posted by: Jo on April 23, 2004 12:39 AMDOMMAEL: Do you participate at a website that has to do with symbology, metaphor, astrology, as they relate to current events? I won't mention the site because I don't know that much about Web etiquette or whether I should even be asking you this. I always enjoy your postings here. I love your idea about all of us getting together but don't think it is possible for me, but wouldn't it be grand. Posted by: Beverly on April 23, 2004 01:10 AMI applaud everyone here who struggles to figure out the details. I know this may sound 'out there' but he way I process to go beyond the pairs of opposites is to imagine the situation on Earth right now as if I was hovering way over the Earth. GWB is a soul that took on this role as an icon for collective Karma. That is the only way I can muster up compassion for him, that his soul took on this project for a reason. Back down on Earth I just want to personally sit him down and tell his stunted teenager unloved self to wake up and stop rebelling against daddy. Earlier I mentioned that a relative of mine had some similarities to GWB's chart. What I should have also said was that my relative has chosen a different path using those same aspects. Not everyone with a Sun/Neptune square view themselves as God's chosen. John is continuously disappointed because people take him the wrong way or don't understand what he is trying to say. His birth father was absent from his life completely but he had a wonderful mother and stepfather. This square is also from the 12th to the 3rd. John has absolutely no relationship with his sister, hasn't seen her in years. When he did see her or hear from her, she caused trouble. He works hard, has a beautiful family and just tries to get from day to day. His upbringing probably had a lot to do with mitigating the more negative aspects of the Sun/Neptune square in his chart. Nothing was ever handed to him. He does however obsess over the Minnesota Vikings and is somewhat delusional about their winning the Super Bowl in his lifetime. Sally, it's his son whose birth data I gave you. Posted by: Teresa on April 23, 2004 01:38 AMAs to the rumors of the pResident's sexual escapades, this comes up when you google "George Bush, Knoxville" - http://idaho.indymedia.org/news/2004/03/7415.php This takes you to a summary, and you can click through to a lovely little article titled "Bush's Boyfriend" by a fellow named Phil Marlowe. It appears to be an interview with Russert and then some additional information, but it's unverified (sadly). Still, makes for encouraging reading! Indy Media usually pushes the envelope on reporting things that don't make the mainstream press. Posted by: Baraka on April 23, 2004 01:46 AMjo - Regarding Neptune, I think the more potent transits are to the planets rather than the houses. The third house Neptune transit does bring some fog to the media, but it is a far more focused fog when it is also quincunx the US Sun, which it is this year. The Neptune quincunx the Sun describes a Chief Exec who is confused, self-deceptive, and dishonest. Who could that be, I wonder? When Saturn is also strong (June, July, september, October, November), he doesn't get away with it. The third house Neptune transit perhaps describes this merging of entertainment and news, getting caught up in the story, etc. It isn't great, but there are far more potent aspects to worry about. Posted by: Nancy on April 23, 2004 02:19 AMNancy, ---------- Namaste Posted by: Jo on April 23, 2004 02:40 AMP.S. to above... a little symbolism for Joanna... the dynamic duo, the "twins" will be appearing before the Commission Posted by: Jo on April 23, 2004 02:44 AMThis article from the Asia Times gives a very clear description of the neocon plan for Iraq I was referring to as one of the elephants in the room that people don't often fully discuss. Instead they focus on more or less troops, what date to have the fake pullout, and who is fighting us (never why, which relates to the neocon plan). http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/FD23Ak02.html Posted by: Nancy on April 23, 2004 02:47 AMLittle boy Gives Proof of Reincarnation http://more.abcnews.go.com/sections/primetime/us/reincarnation_040415.html Posted by: Nancy on April 23, 2004 02:59 AMHowdy again, Folks, the only two forums I spend time in are this one and www.smirkingchimp.com. Now before anyone runs over there let me speak my peace. The Astroworld forum is a thing of beauty. It is a work of art. The Ladies that take the time, energy and good~heartedness to maintain this place day after day are a blessing to us all. Even if you don't believe in Astrology, this website is truly the light of decent human beings sharing good vibes with anyone who happens by. And I think any sane individual would appreciate that the world could use some of that right now. One of the truly amazing things is how the regulars here treat each other and newbies with courtesy and respect. Visit SC and you may realize how rare that is among strangers. All of the symbology, metaphor and astrology as they relate to current events synthesization processes are done in my personal cerebral cortex. I am creating my own deck of Tarot cards. Yeah, that's my excuse. I'm always looking for interesting sites. You can send me an email if you like, but I gather that as long as the site isn't pornographic, sadistic or illegal the hosts wouldn't object too harshly if you posted it here. ~D P.S. I've decided to abstain from SC until Sunday April 24th. Yesterday some foolish person suggested that all of the "Chimpsters" are drug addicts, cowards, criminals or outright faggots and I'm sure membership skyrocketed as a result. Brilliant move guys. Last time I checked BoardNanny was in the eye of a hurricane. My temperament is too sensitive to deal with that chaos until it's simmered down. And I recently registered at John Kerry's blog but am having a hard time conversing with anyone because it is too unbelievably dull. I also know very little astrology. TO THE HOSTS: I was born and raised in Harris County, ladies, and lived there until I was old enough to leave. That's how I can spot a liar and why I hate George Bu$h. Namaste~ ~D Posted by: Dommael on April 23, 2004 03:06 AMExcuse, me Sunday is the 25th. I told you I was no Astrologer. ~D Posted by: Dommael on April 23, 2004 03:24 AMJo, I so appreciate your comments. I'm not sure we disagree. Just for the record - I never said I didn't want Bush out of the white house. And I wasn't referring to this blog when I talked about the language of hatred. I was referring to a tone in different areas of the media. You and someone else mentioned the word compassion for GWB. I didn't use that word in my comments. That's my point. We're each struggling with so many conflicting emotions - outrage, anger, frustration, confusion. We want peace in our country and our world. We want to do something to create change and want it to happen Now. It's like a faucet has opened and more and more stuff is pouring out. There has to be a tipping point soon.
Since GWB has been appointed president I, like so many others, have watched with increasing horror and outrage as his arrogance and recklessness has led us from one debacle to another. I feel afflicted, on a very personal level, by him and by what, I believe, will go down in history as the worst administration in our history. I was profoundly disheartened by recent polls showing his ratings had gone up despite one catastrophe after another. Jane Posted by: on April 23, 2004 03:55 AMDommael. I loved the remark that you grew up in Harris County and that's how you knew a liar. I didn't grow up in Harris County but I always say "I raised 4 kids and know when I am being lied to," I think GWB is just a liar as is Tony Blair and all of us have had our nose in the wind since before the election and the whiff of lies and perdition has been in the air for everyone who has a good nose. Who was it that mentioned Charlie Rose, I don't know whether to feel sorry for him or chuck him in the bin as dumb, but I think if I hear him sigh and whine "help me to understand why the world doesn't like GWB" I am going to hurl. Every single woman I know (except one) no matter what they did for a living has known from the beginning that this gang were liars. Why is it such a mystery to a ton of white men, I don't get it, it has to be in the water. Posted by: Sally on April 23, 2004 03:56 AMJane, in two years the US progressed Mars goes retrograde, that has never happened in the US energy, it has in other countries but not here. Mars retrograde in a person's chart signals a slow down of ambition, a loss of power without caring. Mars will be retrograde in the US chart for decades, will we lose our thirst for power, will we join the rest of the world or will we be topled. Any of these options are possible. Posted by: Sally on April 23, 2004 04:00 AMJaycee, Namaste Posted by: Jo on April 23, 2004 04:17 AM
I wonder if it is possible he is coming by boat from someplace near. He was someplace in Florida today, forgot where. There is a place that the other Bush's spend xmas that is north of there, but probably not that far by boat. I think that airforce 1 would have to land in Ft.Myers, 30 miles north of Naples. So unless his plane can land in Naples (I don't think they can-but helicopter yes-but they said nothing about a tie up in Ft. Myers) he will probably be in this area either by car or boat at 4:20 or just in the air. Posted by: Jean on April 23, 2004 04:23 AM
Let me understand this. The pResident goes to Florida to win votes and influence people, but the people can't see him... not even his motorcade... the road must be cleared for over 3 hrs. In the Nixon years they had somebody with a bag that picked up the money... remember him? isn't he on a network now? Anyway, I digress... wouldn't it be simpler to have someone simply pick up the checks... at least voters wouldn't be upset because the roads are closed for three hrs. Heck Federal Express could make the pickup... Karl, it's a mistake to upset commuters... Mamas picking up children... Do any of y'all believe those polls anyway? Yesterday the first 4 polls had less than 2% undecided... six months to go, and less than 2%? Yep, we live in an alternative universe... got to have a 'close' race though so those diebold computers do their thing... Peace Posted by: Jo on April 23, 2004 04:37 AMMany interesting posts re how a natal pattern or transits may play out. I am reminded of a wonderful article I read long ago (BN, Before Net) in American Astrology magazine. Wish I could remember the author. Anyhow her (I remember it was a woman) idea was that you should watch your transits, progressions, etc. and manifest them yourself, before they were manifested randomly. In other words--Saturn transiting your Sun in the lst House? If you have been wanting to lose that 10 lbs. now is the time to do it. Saturn transiting your 6th in Capricorn? Go ahead and schedule that dental work you have been putting off. Mars in your 10th? Set up the company sports team, etc. Anyhow, the idea was to seize the situation and steer it, rather than just let it happen to you without direction. Maybe we could do some of that in the current political situation. Posted by: Barbara on April 23, 2004 04:39 AMWell Bu$h chilled the state of Maine today with his earth day appearance! Oh I meant to ssay......no offensse meant to the men that visit this site who are blessedly atipical! (sp?) Thom Hartmann wrote this piece and it appeared on the net last year, just prior to the invasion of Iraq. This morning Common Dreams has it on their site. I highly recommend if you read nothing else today, you read it. It was scary a year ago... and it's even scarier today. Here's a paragraph from the piece as a teaser. Namaste "...But the warnings of investigators were ignored at the highest levels, in part because the government was distracted; the man who claimed to be the nation's leader had not been elected by a majority vote and the majority of citizens claimed he had no right to the powers he coveted. He was a simpleton, some said, a cartoon character of a man who saw things in black-and-white terms and didn't have the intellect to understand the subtleties of running a nation in a complex and internationalist world. His coarse use of language - reflecting his political roots in a southernmost state - and his simplistic and often-inflammatory nationalistic rhetoric offended the aristocrats, foreign leaders, and the well-educated elite in the government and media. And, as a young man, he'd joined a secret society with an occult-sounding name and bizarre initiation rituals that involved skulls and human bones." http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0316-08.htm Posted by: Jo on April 23, 2004 01:49 PM
Photos of Fallen Americans all over NYTimes and other papers: "The Pentagon's ban on making images of dead soldiers' homecomings at military bases public was briefly relaxed yesterday, as hundreds of photographs of flag-draped coffins at Dover Air Force Base were released on the Internet by a Web site dedicated to combating government secrecy. The Web site, the Memory Hole (www.thememoryhole.org), had filed a Freedom of Information Act request last year, seeking any pictures of coffins arriving from Iraq at the Dover base in Delaware, the destination for most of the bodies. The Pentagon yesterday labeled the Air Force Air Mobility Command's decision to grant the request a mistake, but news organizations quickly used a selection of the 361 images taken by Defense Department photographers. The release of the photographs came one day after a contractor working for the Pentagon fired a woman who had taken photographs of coffins being loaded onto a transport plane in Kuwait. Her husband, a co-worker, was also fired after the pictures appeared in The Seattle Times on Sunday. The contractor, Maytag Aircraft, said the woman, Tami Silicio of Seattle, and her husband, David Landry, had "violated Department of Defense and company policies." http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/23/national/23PHOT.html You GO "Memoryhole" and FOIA! Took a year, baby, but they got the pictures... and Daily Kos bloggers have established a fund to compensate the photographer, Tami Silicio of Seattle, whose picture appeared just before Pentagon released pics to Memory Hole... ----------- Also, Juan Cole is reporting situation in Nijaf tense: ' Senior officers say the order to attack Najaf will be made "at the very highest levels of the U.S. government," an indication that President Bush may have the final word on whether soldiers here fight, or keep on waiting. ' and Cole reports "There are also rumors that Bush himself made the decision that Fallujah would have to be massively punished for the desecration of the bodies of the US private soldiers of fortune killed there, and that Gen. John Abizaid strongly agreed. That decision backfired badly from a political point of view, both in Iraq and the region, and the British in particular have signalled hard that it is time for the US to negotiate." ------------ Check out Juancole.com if you haven't already... he's an expert on the ME, days ago testified before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee; there's virtually a cornucopia there for news junkies... And did you know Congress is waking from its slumber... seems the natives at home are rumbling and they have three (count 'em 3) hearings scheduled on the Admin's doings in Iraq... Peace word is out that seige on Falluje Posted by: on April 23, 2004 03:05 PM
I have no doubt that Florida played a big part in the planning of 9/11. So is something equivalent happening today. Incidently the owner of the flight school in Venice, Florida is a Naples resident. And this coast is crawing with ex CIA, etc. (The boys in the back room types.) Posted by: Jean on April 23, 2004 03:40 PMWonderful overview of bushie et al activities in Iraq. * Whose Chaos Is This Anyway? http://www.nationinstitute.org/tomdispatch/index.mhtml?pid=1396 Posted by: JoannaOregon on April 23, 2004 04:37 PMIt is a very good thing to be reminded of Sargent Shriver and his very successful, non-aggressive public service drive, both domestically & internationally. It is in his footsteps that Gov. Dean wants to walk. This is the kind of thing that defines us Democrats and liberals and of which we should be proud. Like Gov. Dean said at his talk this past week, we need to have a handful of facts at our disposal so that we can be prepared to stand up for the Democratic and liberal way. (His example was that the Republicans have not balanced the budget in 34 years.) Last night at the Kerry Meetup, they suggested we look up 3 important Kerry accomplishments and be ready with them when we are questioned about Kerry. I think the same goes for the Democratic party as well as for the much-maligned term - "liberal." I am going to attempt to research the greatest liberal thinkers and achievers in history and, when I find them, I'll list them here. Please feel free to do the same.
A young Bill Moyers, who joined Mr. Shriver at the Peace This sounds rather conspiratorial but was on "Nightline" which I believe is rather mainstream. Did anyone see it? www.serendipity.li/wot/martial_law.htm "Nightline Sells Martial Law" Hosted by Ted Koppel with guest Richard Clarke. In addition, news article "House OK's Speedy Elections if Attacked" see http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040423/D8245VJGO.html Does it sound like Washington is trying to prepare us for another major attack? Seems to be rather fitting for and opposition of Mars/Pluto. Posted by: Beverly on April 23, 2004 05:58 PMOne reason I enjoy coming here is because the comments lend me some perspective in regards to current events. If you are living inside the United States, bear in mind (the coffin photo "scandal" applies here so well) ALL information you are receiving is being filtered. That's obvious right? Jo, thanks for bringing up the don't~believe~the~hype thing again. Even the most reliable *polls* are still nothing more than shots in the dark as far as gauging (or gouging) public opinion. It blows my mind that Associated Press can release a statement saying Bu$h is holding steady with a three-point lead in a Zogby poll and the Progressive Left flies into a tizzy. Don't let the polls upset you so much ~ 'cause you know what? They're designed to. Don't ignore 'em either ~ just maintain your perspective. Realize that the media are trying to SELL their product ~ in this case: an election. They WANT ~ I mean, it's in their best interests ~ to keep this race neck and neck until November. If one side looks like it's going to win in a landslide they lose potential profits because people stop paying attention. Right? Ooooooo ~ Pat, that comment about fresh lumber keeping Bu$h's feet off the ground really nailed it. Happy Earth Day everyone. Every time I see a press conference I wonder how much of our tax money it takes to gas up Bu$h's Caligula~esque caravan (that would be Air Force 1, at least two Black Hawk Helicopters, One customized state-of-the-art Armored Limo, about 20 limos carrying gov't personnel + whatever the Secret Service happens to think they need for the situation) and since Bu$h combines press statements with fund~raisers WE foot the traveling expenses every single time they put money in the hype/spin war chest. Mmmmmm~hmmm. Gawd, we need some reform. Buncha lawyers in public office turning the screws on legal loopholes. Crooks, liars and mercenaries. I can tell ya right now what Karl Rove's master plan is for getting George Bu$h elected (notice I did not say RE-elected ~ that is technically a misstatement) the master plan is: Fear Overload from now until voting day. We've got a long road ahead of us until November and we may be dealing with a crisis a week. I'll give you the lowdown. News in Bu$h's favor is released on Mondays. News that hurts Bu$h is released on Fridays. At least, that's how it's worked previously. I don't know if the media have switched to their pointy teeth now. I don't have my copy of Watership Down in front of me, but I believe there's a message from Lord Frith to El-ahrairah that says "be cunning and full of tricks and your people will thrive and prosper." Don't despair. We are engaged in a battle of wits with the people who brought you GEORGE BU$H. These individuals are not exactly pushing the envelope of evolution, you dig? I want the Neo~Cons and the Dominionists to be so thoroughly ashamed and embarrassed by November that they are remembered with contempt for generations. I do not want 8 years of Kerry only for Jeb to run and take up where Dimson left off. Nope. And, although I believe nonviolent, civil disobedience is the only answer ~ in the realm of public opinion these people deserve no quarter. They will certainly afford us none. Namaste~ ~D Posted by: Dommael on April 23, 2004 06:01 PMFor any of you trying to find the "Speedy Elections" link the very last O should be a numerical zero 0 sorry. I'm still learning. Posted by: Beverly on April 23, 2004 06:10 PMI have penned down where Bush will be at 4:00pm today. He is due to arrive at the Ft. Myers airport at aprox. 3:30 and take off at 4:00pm. If the schedule holds, he will be taking off in airforce 1. I get 11 Gemini on the MH and 12 Virgo on the asc. If you missed Nancy's post about this date, she pointed out that at Dc at 4 pm the Moon, MH, Mars will be at 21 Gem opposite Pluto at 22 Sag R. Jeb is with him. His Mc is 22 Gem. HIs Uranus is 15 Cancer which puts it inconjunct neptune. On the Naples chart for this time the asc. is 22 Virgo conjunct US Neptune. Local news will have the take off. Do I expect anything, not likely. Do I think something is being decided in the backrooms in Naples, or on the ride from Naples to Ft. Myers, I sure do. Posted by: Jean on April 23, 2004 06:10 PMSorry that you Florida folks are only getting the Bushes. KC is the getting the "real" president, Dick Cheney, who is speaking at a fundraiser for Congressman Sam Graves. He's supposed to speak at noon and discuss the ME and his upcoming appearance at the 9-11 commission. Posted by: Teresa on April 23, 2004 06:30 PMDommael, thanks for the perspective. You mentioned this dark character yesterday... John Dimitri (love that 'Russian' ? name?) Negroponte born July 21, 1939... he has of course been named by Dubya to serve as Ambassador to Iraq (actually he will be Gov. of our 51st state, which we haven't officially annexed, but hey, what's a technicality in these times... our leader's got brush to clear!). Mr. Negroponte is presently US Ambassador to the UN, where he can count as one of his most recent assignments, the breaking of kneecaps to get the nations lined up for the 'coalition of the ____ (you fill in the blank). He will be another in a long line of Iran Contra veterans who have completed their coup d'etat of our government... and await subjegation of the world... I recently went to the library with the grandchildren and checked out a wonderful compilation of the Iran-Contra Scandal with some 400+ pages of declassified information... heavy reading, but hey, I'm not an "American Idol Fan", after all, we have one, isn't one idol per country enough... this one doesn't work well, but that's because he was so quickly installed... anyway the call no. is 973.927 Ira A if you're interested. Sally the date given for the breaking of the scandal is November 25, 1986 , Sun at 3 degrees Sag... if you have some idle time (I know we keep you busy) you might want to check this chart out to see how it play into the present Admin... since so many of its main players are still play. He's also a Yale man... I don't know about S&B... Re John Negroponte --- you can google him up, and I'm sure you'll agree he's not the man to put in charge of Iraqis... or even your household pets... dark he is... I'm writing my Congressional Delegation today to oppose his nomination... unless of course Dubya plans to install him on one of his series of Friday surprises... get your message in early... here's a little on his bio: From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. John Dimitri Negroponte has been the United States ambassador to the United Nations since September 2001. He is a career diplomat who served in the US Foreign Service from 1960 to 1997. On April 19, 2004, Negroponte was nominated by US President George W. Bush to be US ambassador to Iraq after the June 30 handover. His appointment to the UN post was a controversial one because of his involvement in covert funding of the Contras and his covering up of human rights abuses in Honduras in the 1980s. He is seen by many as a terrorist sponsor for supporting the Contra insurgency against the left wing Sandinistas, the first ever democratically elected government of Nicaragua. He is also accused of inciting Contra attacks on civilians. John Dimitri Negroponte was born on July 21, 1939 in London. His father was a Greek shipping magnate. He graduated from Yale University in 1960. He later served at eight different Foreign Service posts in Asia, Europe and Latin America; and he also held important positions at the State Department and the White House. From 1997 until his appointment as ambassador to the UN, Negroponte was an executive with McGraw-Hill. He speaks five languages. From 1981 to 1985 Negroponte was US ambassador to Honduras. During his tenure, he oversaw the growth of military aid to Honduras from $4 million to $77.4 million a year. According to The New York Times, Negroponte was responsible for "carrying out the covert strategy of the Reagan administration to crush the Sandinistas government in Nicaragua." Critics say that during his ambassadorship, human rights violations in Honduras became systematic. Negroponte supervised the creation of the El Aguacate air base, where the US trained Nicaraguan Contras and which critics say was used as a secret detention and torture center during the 1980s. In August 2001, excavations at the base discovered 185 corpses, including two Americans, who are thought to have been killed and buried at the site. Records also show that a special intelligence unit of the Honduran armed forces, Battalion 3-16, trained by the CIA and Argentine military, kidnapped, tortured and killed hundreds of people, including US missionaries. Critics charge that Negroponte knew about these human rights violations and yet continued to collaborate with the Honduran military while lying to Congress. In May 1982, a nun, Sister Laetitia Bordes, who had worked for ten years in El Salvador, went on a fact-finding delegation to Honduras to investigate the whereabouts of thirty Salvadoran nuns and women of faith who fled to Honduras in 1981 after Archbishop Oscar Romero's assassination. Negroponte claimed the embassy knew nothing. But in a 1996 interview with the Baltimore Sun, Negroponte's predecessor, Jack Binns, said that a group of Salvadorans, among whom were the women Bordes had been looking for, were captured on April 22, 1981, and savagely tortured by the DNI, the Honduran Secret Police, and then later thrown out of helicopters alive. In early 1984, two American mercenaries, Thomas Posey and Dana Parker, contacted Negroponte, stating they wanted to supply arms to the Contras after the U.S. Congress had banned further military aid. Documents show that Negroponte brought the two with a contact in the Honduran armed forces The operation was exposed nine months later, at which point the Reagan administration denied any US involvement, despite Negroponte's participation in the scheme. Other documents uncovered a plan of Negroponte and then-Vice President George H. W. Bush to funnel Contra aid money through the Honduran government. During his tenure as US ambassador to Honduras, Binns, who was appointed by President Jimmy Carter, made numerous complaints about human rights abuses by the Honduran military and he claimed he fully briefed Negroponte on the situation before leaving the post. When the Reagan administration came to power, Binns was replaced by Negroponte, who has consistently denied having knowledge of any wrongdoing. Later, the Honduras Commission on Human Rights accused Negroponte himself of human rights violations. Speaking of Negroponte and other senior US officials, an ex-Honduran congressman, Efrain Diaz, told the Baltimore Sun, which in 1995 published an extensive investigation of US activities in Honduras: Their attitude was one of tolerance and silence. They needed Honduras to loan its territory more than they were concerned about innocent people being killed. When President Bush announced Negroponte's appointment to the UN shortly after coming to office, it was met with widespread protest. However, the Bush administration did not back down and even went so far as to try to silence potential witnesses. On March 25, the Los Angeles Times reported on the sudden deportation from the United States of several former Honduran death squad members who could have provided damaging testimony against Negroponte in his Senate confirmation hearings. One of the deportees was General Luis Alonso Discua, founder of Battalion 3-16. In the preceding month, Washington had revoked the visa of Discua who was Honduras' Deputy Ambassador to the UN. Nonetheless, Discua went public with details of US support of Battalion 3-16. Upon learning of Negroponte's nomination, Reed Brody of Human Rights Watch in New York commented: Sally, I apologize for taking so much space for this post, but I feel strongly that this man does not belong in this Administration. Namaste Posted by: Jo on April 23, 2004 06:33 PMSorry, what I meant to say above, is this man cannot be appointed as Ambassador to Iraq... he fits in in the administration of course... just that they're overloaded now... Posted by: Jo on April 23, 2004 06:42 PMJo, I think you may have discovered the chart Sally speaks of...the cold, firghtening individual who makes Hitler look tame. Posted by: Pat on April 23, 2004 06:54 PMDid I win? Dommael --- Ding! Ding! you got there first! But let's don't put Sally on the spot... she shouldn't be pressured to name... after all, isn't it enough we know the man is dark... and the important thing is, we need to contact our Congressional Delegations and our friends, this man should not be free to control, have power over the people of Iraq... or have any role in our government. Amen. Sally was trying to express the range of darkness she has seen in charts... it's not cricket of us to pressure her to "name" the darkest... Namaste Posted by: Jo on April 23, 2004 07:18 PMI certainly wasn't trying to pressure Sally to name ~ but she shouldn't tease us so! Please send that trophy to: Dommael Namaste~ ~D P.S. Seriously this Negroponte character is bad news. Bu$h is planning on using an infamous torturer to transform Iraq into a mall at the barrel of a gun... Posted by: Dommael on April 23, 2004 07:32 PMI posted several months ago that during the run up to the invasion of Iraq, Colin Powell was busy traveling to Denmark attempting to get himself, Franks and the president and several others exempt from war crimes... he accomplished this and I wish to remind you that John D. Negroponte was in the US State Department serving under Colin Powell when he was appointed to the UN where one of his most important assignments and probably chief reason for his appointment was to get the USA and Israel totally exempted from standing for any war crimes. See the following which are simply a few of the many articles about this: http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0428-06.htm In this from the BBC, Negroponte is quoted: "We cannot accept a structure that may transform the political criticism of America's world role into the basis for criminal trials of Americans who have put their lives on the line for freedom," he said. "Should the ICC eventually seek to detain any American, the United States would regard this as illegitimate. "No nation should underestimate our commitment to protect our citizens." President Bush's administration had been threatening to veto all future UN peacekeeping missions if the American military was not granted permanent immunity from the ICC." --------------------- I am weary of folks assessing Colin Powell as the good soldier, just doing his duty. This man has gone beyond 'doing his duty' ... I questioned the logic of Dubya's appointment of a man of war to a position of diplomat (State) (usually a man of peace)... after the episode in Haiti I understand the brand of diplomacy we utilize... on the order of the Sicilian model... if you need knee caps broken... Marjorie Orr has his chart, no birth time: POWELL PERSONALITY: ----------- Does anyone on this Board have any comments on his chart? I apologize for the multiple lengthy posts... I am feeling fiesty today... tired of these guys... Namaste
One thing I found interesting, although not conclusive because of lack of birthtime, was the fact that his progressed sun is at approx 20 degrees of Gemini. So it fits right in with the pluto/mars/venus stuff being pushed by the moon today. Posted by: Sharon on April 23, 2004 08:04 PMI ran a quick solar chart for Negroponte and it is frightening. Sun/Pluto conjunction in Leo opposing Mars and all involved in a very tight t-sqaure with Saturn -- all in fixed signs. He also has Venus squaring Jupiter and Mercury squaring Uranus. At first glance, the very best I can say about this is that he loves pleasurable things, like eating and drinking and probably to excess. Of course, I realize this is a snap judgment he could just as easily be a very driven or very frustrated individual but based on the bio, I don't think so. This chart would be an interesting study in psychological astrology. Posted by: Teresa on April 23, 2004 08:06 PMSorry, I forgot to identify that comment as relating to the chart of Colin Powell. Posted by: Sharon on April 23, 2004 08:06 PMThe first track from Sinead O'Connor's excellent album "Universal Mother" (speaker unknown to me): "I do think that women could make politics irrelevent via a kind of spontaneous, cooperative action the like of which we have never seen, which is so far from people's ideas of state structure and viable social structure that it seems to them like total anarchy and what it really is, is very subtle forms of interrelation which do not follow a sort of hierarchical pattern which is fundamentally patriarchal. The opposite to patriarchy is not matriarchy, but fraternity, and I think it's women who are going to have to break the spiral of power and find the trick of cooperation." Praise Jah~ ~D Posted by: Dommael on April 23, 2004 08:15 PMI just noticed that today, April 23rd, is Saint George's Day, the saint of battles and the patron saint of England. http://www.innotts.co.uk/asperges/george/george2.html Interesting that today, where it seems everything good/evil is emphasized, reversed and/or totally polarized, and we now know the christian church was the tool for suppression of the masses back then, perhaps this legend was a distortion of the truth also. Posted by: Jeanie on April 23, 2004 09:00 PMThank you Dommael for those generous comments about women... but you realize of course we all have our female/side and so if we all begin to 'honor' the feminine side more, than your post could become a reality... Do more women incline toward astrology than men? because of the symbolisms maybe? What do you think Sally? Nancy? Isabelle, in your article above you queried about the origins of Dubya's cowboy persona... I recall GB Sr bought a house in Texas and started wearing cowboy boots after Spiro Agnew (another Greek) started attacking eastern elitists, probably in an effort to diminish his Eastern roots... groomed his Jr. for good ol' boy role? Peace Posted by: Jo on April 23, 2004 09:04 PMlast nite in the clear los angeles sky i noticed the beautiful moon in the shape of a perfect thin crescent..and above it was the brightest star/planet...can anyone tell me what planet that is? is it mercury? i'm just curious because it looked just like the arabic star and crescent, and as we're in between eclipses, and what with the fallujah offensive about to happen, i really am curious about which planet it is... To Jonathan and others who still hold on to the idea that we have an obligation to "stay the course" in Iraq. I just read this article which seems to sum up my views on the subject quite well: http://www.counterpunch.org/jacobs04232004.html and then there is thus this dilemma for the anti-war voters as well as for Kerry: http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0423-01.htm The American people are obvioulsy not ready to accept that the only decent thing to do at this point is to withdraw our troops and abandon the imperialist objective to control Iraq and its precious resource. That doesn't mean we don't have an obligation to provide financial aid in reconstruction. If we ever want to really "win the hearts and minds" of the rest of the world and really do something about the problem of terrorism we should put the billions we are spending in inflicting terrorism on others into humanitarian efforts. Then we might really have something. The overriding lesson of the Iraq war is that, on the one hand, America has become too careless in its use of the most powerful military force in the world. We rely too much on the military. It is not really making us safer and is not protecting our (that is the average American) interests. I know its hard for Kerry to take this position. This only demonstrates that politicians are not really leaders but followers of public opinion polls. A real leader would stand up and try to change public opinion. Posted by: Timothy on April 23, 2004 09:51 PMRoxanne, go here http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~harwood/coment.html and scroll down to April 21st. Posted by: Pat on April 23, 2004 09:51 PMRoxanne that was Venus above the crescent Moon last night... and Mars also just a little bit above Venus... Now tonight the Moon will conjunct Mars and we're all waiting to see what happens... Posted by: Timothy on April 23, 2004 09:55 PMRoxanne, here is another good pic of the line-up. http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2004/21apr_planets2.htm Posted by: Pat on April 23, 2004 09:56 PMWhile I'm am probably not where you are, my guess is that you are seeing Venus which is always bright. Posted by: Pat on April 23, 2004 09:58 PMIt was shining bright and beautiful in Missouri too. Posted by: Teresa on April 23, 2004 09:59 PMWoops, cross post with Timothy! Sorry Timothy. Posted by: Pat on April 23, 2004 09:59 PMTimothy, Jo, yes. It was Eisenhower is the one who really got us in there, and it has consistantly been the Republicans who have taken and kept us at war. Who runs the Republicans? Posted by: Pat on April 23, 2004 10:02 PMJo, does 46 count for "relatively young"? I turned 18 the year the Vietnam War ended. I remember some of my earliest memories from the early sixties hearing radio broadcasts about Vietnam. A couple of threads back I posted a comment about "The Fog of War" the Errol Morris documentary based on Robert S. McNamara's autobiography. One of the things that struck me was audiotape of LBJ telling McNamara that "Kennedy was wrong, we need to stay in Vietnam" (or something to that effect). To me this seemed to be very strong evidence backing up the long controversial assertion that Kennedy planned to withdraw from Vietnam. I personally think that was why he was assasinated. LBJ was quoted in another source as saying in a private conversation "It was the CIA and the oil boys" in reference to JFK's assasination. The really disturbing thing is that I think this points the finger at GWH Bush. He was one of the "oil boys" who by then was likely already in the CIA though he has denied he was in the CIA then. But he was the head of the CIA by the mid 70's and I think it a good bet that he was involved with the CIA probably from the very beginning. I've read that Nixon got his political start from Prescott Bush. Nixon was probably the highest official behind Bay of Pigs while he was VP. I've read that the ships that landed at Bay of Pigs were named the "Houston" and the "Barbara." For the "CIA and the oil boys" Kennedy blew it by not fully backing the Bay of Pigs. Even worse for these boys, his resolution to the Cuban Missile Crisis included a pledge not to invade Cuba again, and then a year later he seemed to be moving towards withdrawing from Vietnam, a move which would have drastically changed American foreign policy which was based on exertion of our military superiority. As a result of the 2000 coup d'etat, the "CIA and the oil boys" have been back in control. Americans cannot really see who these people are for the truth is too dark to face. Posted by: Timothy on April 23, 2004 10:22 PM"A real leader would stand up and try to change public opinion." Jeanie, That is so well said. Posted by: Pat on April 23, 2004 10:35 PMThe thing I fear most about the current situation is that now we have this ruthless militarism typical of the PNAC neocons wedded to apocalyptic Christian fundamentalism. We have our troops still poised to strike against the tinderboxes of Fallujah and Najaf. A Sunni Muslim leader warns us not to strike Fallujah again: And Iran is warning us not to cross the line drawn around Najaf: http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0423-03.htm And G. W. Bush, divinely inspired by his "higher father," is ready to pull the trigger. Posted by: Timothy on April 23, 2004 10:35 PMTimothy, Yes, Jeanie, I understand. That is precisely why it is a good thing that we have people like Nader and Kucinich providing another voice. I don't think either one of these men are really interested in winning an election. The smart thing to do will be to vote for Kerry when it comes to that, but to support Nader and Kucinich along the way. I voted for Kucinich in the caucus and have supported Nader in the past elections (but as I said earlier, it was always a "safe" vote, i.e., a vote in a state where the Republican candidate did not have a chance). And yet I have agreed to help in the Kerry campaign here in the months to come. When Kerry is elected I will still be protesting the war in Iraq as well as US militarism in general. However, if this Iraq thing blows up as seems imminent, then Kerry will be on the wrong side of this issue and the fall election, if it comes about at all, may not be at all like what it looks like now. Posted by: Timothy on April 23, 2004 10:53 PMThis one is a must read folks. It describes the Apocalypse Lobby. http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1195568,00.html snip- We need the gods. Posted by: Pat on April 23, 2004 11:05 PMTres cool website on Saint George, Jeanie. Pipes under the streets of Washington DC have exploded with such force, the steam blew workers inside the manhole twenty-fine feet into the air. They said they didn't recall this type of force ever happening before. I am worried about Washinton this weekend. Saturday will be the huge march of anachists protesting the world economy and Sunday will be the huge protest against Bush and his ante-women's rights. Posted by: Pat on April 23, 2004 11:11 PMTimothy, regarding JFK, there is also the Northwoods plot that many people in this country are not familiar with. In the year before he was assasinated, the CIA pitched a plan to muster Americans to support invasion of Cuba and overthrowing Castro. Their plot involved downing a domestic airliner filled with passengers and blaming the incident on the Cubans. Kennedy completely nixed the idea and shortly thereafter - within months I believe - he was dead. So I think there were several areas in which Kennedy's chosen or preferred plan of action veered away from the guys at the CIA, the Defense Dept. and the Pentagon. It's pretty clear that the so-called 'most powerful man on earth' is only powerful if he obeys his masters in those organizations and the real puppetmasters pulling the strings, the plutocrats that either own, or seek to own, everything on the planet. Posted by: Susan on April 23, 2004 11:14 PMLBJ made the comment about Texas oilmen and the CIA to one of the many women he bedded down from time to time. Don't forget: LBJ was also a Texas oilman. Posted by: shylurker on April 24, 2004 12:03 AMI think we've all got it figured out... this war is illegal and unnecessary and this admin is getting to kill even more Iraqis and more of our troops are going to die. And the more I read about Iran-Contra Scandal, the more my memory is triggered about the Reagan-Bush administrations. My first thought when Dubya announced his cabinet was good grief all those Regean retreads... it seems they just picked up where they left off with that era, the Imperial Presidency of Reagan and Iran-Contra, Irangate, and Iraqgate (started under Regean, con't with GHWB... first thing Dubya did when he entered office was to protect his father's admin's records... The primary assumption that came from Walsh Hearings is that the President and Vice President(GWHB) and the admin acted ABOVE the law... 'fruit doesn't fall far from the tree' - this Admin is acted as if they MAKE their own rules, forget the law... This admin has performed an admin coup d'etat...
Today I started thinking out the box so to speak, and it was so scary, I jumped back in the box... you know this country had its 'Manifest Destiny' for so long --- I thought naively it was over when we reached California... but that's a mistake! We are doing in Iraq what we did in 'the New World' and I don't mean to bash white males, but the mindset that says take what you want, the heck with others... we relocated/killed the Native Americans, took land and then took some more... Is there something in the USA Chart that shows this kind of thing...? Surely we can see it there... because that's what we appear to be... militant, conquering, greedy - to others... is it the situation, that about one-half or more of us SEE or intuit what we are collectively, while the rest is in denial? I'm perplexed here. Are we talking image or essence? Nancy, Sally, Isabelle? Namaste Posted by: Jo on April 24, 2004 12:25 AMOkay, a freak out moment above... I definitely do NOT think Kerry is Bush lite... just been listening in at other blogs too much today... sorry... peace Posted by: Jo on April 24, 2004 12:44 AMRoxanne, where I am in St Augustine Fl, the star(s) above the crescent moon were so bright I figured it was two planets. They looked absolutely conjunct from down here--like one bright star. Came home and checked transits. Was surprised to find nothing exact or even within five degrees. Mars, Venus, and Saturn were all fairly close to each other and to the moon. I have never understood "declination"--is that the right word? Anyhow maybe that would explain the apparent conjunction from the earthly point of view. Would appreciate any astronomy tips. Posted by: Barbara on April 24, 2004 12:46 AMjo - Regarding Kerry, he may not be as liberal or as forward thinking as we are here, but he is sane and reasonable and considered fairly liberal on most policies. Bush is delusional, radical and hellbent on either the Apocalypse, American hegemony, or both (despite their being mutually exclusive - logic was never a barrier to his policies). If we want a rose and we get a daisy, I can live with it. What we have now is a rat. As for our aggressiveness and greed, Pluto in the second house is insatiable greed until it is transformed to higher consciousness. Perhaps when Pluto opposes all the US Cancer planets (2010 to 2015) we will have along, slow, painful but necessary awakening. Posted by: Nancy on April 24, 2004 01:20 AMthanks for all the info folks...i pray for the people who are in dangerous areas (iraq) tonite..i mean i'd rather get killed in a quake than by the supidity of man..blowing each other up.. Posted by: Roxanne on April 24, 2004 01:23 AMRe: Saint George brought up before. Some saint. The dragon represents the Goddess religion or serpent/kundalini. This a very good list. I really appreciate the talent here. I do not post because of time constraints and also because much of what I might have to say is usually covered by someone else eventually, but here is some information regarding the chart of the pResident that may shed some light on astrological influences on his thought processes. All of these positions are derived from right ascension. n signifies natal, p progressed. The planets with a \ between them represent midpoints. nMars = 11d 15m Virgo nNep\Plu = 10d 28m Virgo pMars\Nep = 10d 38m Libra All of the above points will be sextiled in May by transiting Mars and Saturn with the progressed Mars\Neptune midpoint recieving the square from the conjunction of those 2 planets on May 25. That day may mark the beginning of the end for his run as pResident. He will be under intense pressure from then through almost the end of July. Bob Posted by: bob nicewander on April 24, 2004 01:42 AMJo, I didn't take your comments in any negative way... What you say is so right on about this country and it continuing 'Manifest Destiny' identity. I'll share an interesting story that brought this home to me very powerfully. In October of 2002 we had a little anti-war protest down at the bayfront here in little Hilo, Hawaii nestled under the splendor of the majestic Mauna Kea, the largest mountain in the world (measured from the seafloor) and the most sacred land for all the polynesians. There were a number of speakers who all spoke about why we should not attack Iraq and the general problem of American imperialist militarism. At the end an elderly Hawaiian man spoke about the illegal overthrow of the Hawaiian nation, and all the Hawaiian lands that are now occupied and descrated by the American military. After that a band of Hawaiian musicians entertainted the gathering with beautiful acoustic slack key music. They were led by a fierce looking man who wore his Vietnam medals on his hat and began his performance by saying something like: "Ahh, you know what we think you can do about the Iraq war--we think you can go home now..." Then they would play a nice set of music and afterwards he would stop and say "You not gone yet? Still here?" This went on throughout the whole performance. Every break he would say "Not gone yet?" It was a very interesing performance, it got some people a bit pissed off, but when seen from a different perspective it was actually a very genuine and honest thing--much better than just smiling and singing comforting Hawaiiana songs that cover up the real truth about what happened here. The whole thing got me to thinking that the war in Iraq is only the latest symptom of a sickness that is deep within the American soul. Most Americans, I think, recognize there are some sad chapters to American history; but they tend to think it was all in the past and are not willing to think that it goes on today, or even more, that they are complicit in that continually unfolding sad chapter. Now the US military want 26,000 more acres of land on Mauna Kea to expand their military base so that they can bring their anti-terrorism Stryker Force here for training. No telling how much more of that sacred and ecologically fragile land will be destroyed, littered with unexploded ordinance and rendered useless for generations to come. As a nation we haven't even really begun to attone for the injustice done here a century ago, and instead are just marching forward with the same arrogant ignorance. I think in the US Chart it must be the Sun-Saturn and Mars-Neptune squares. And I've also thought this mindset you so well describe suggests some plausibility to the Scorpio rising chart. (I want to emphasize "some plausibility" and do not think it is by any means certain.) But if Scorpio is rising that seems to emphasize the obsession with power. Excellent link there Nancy to the Apocalypse Lobby. The twin weakness of America come together: the obsession with power and military violence and the religious fundamentalism. I have no doubt that these people are looking forward to Armeggedon and "sitting at the right hand of the father." If we are going to survive this Pluto transit through Sag, then I think we as a people will have to be able to question the two unquestioned things: We have to question and examine what's good and bad about both. Posted by: Timothy on April 24, 2004 01:44 AMNancy, I thank you for the comments on nPluto in 2nd house... I know many folks who are already transformed... your comment gives me more understanding... I don't think I've truly realized how insatiable the greed is... we just have to keep sending the light... There's an old Scottish saying, "If we could see ourselves as others see us..." Question: Sag on the first house... no planets in first house... no significant harsh aspects to the ASC... what brought about the change in how the world sees us? tPluto thru the 1st? So now they see the 2nd house stuff? Sorry to be so slow, there, I think I'm having a difficult time with seeing that... little denial here... guess I simply want to see the good... that's my own first house stuff... Thank you for answering my query Nancy... Namaste Posted by: Jo on April 24, 2004 01:48 AMHey Timothy, bkahti~ I'm reminded of the blessing squires would receive upon ascending to knighthood. "In the name of God, Saint Michael and Saint George..." Perhaps karmically the name "George" should be spread in a positive way, such as vanquishing maiden~eating dragons, instead of being constantly associated with the word "Bu$h." Uische Beah, Jo. ~D Posted by: Dommael on April 24, 2004 01:57 AMIn the Scorpio rising chart the nodes are square the Asc. What would that suggest? Posted by: Timothy on April 24, 2004 01:59 AM~aloha Jeanie... Posted by: Timothy on April 24, 2004 02:00 AMDommael, when I posted I was thinking more along the lines that "Saint" George had been misrepresented from that of christian peace to an image that glorified war, power, and control. Now who does that remind you of .... our very own mad king george. Posted by: Jeanie on April 24, 2004 02:06 AMCool way to tie the thread back to the thought that originated it, Jeanie. In my opinion, the Dominionists are giving Christianity a bad name. This is definitely going to be the low water mark for our civilization ~ the guys with all of the power treat the planet with disdain because they figure the lifespan of the planet is just about over so why not burn money and power like there's no tomorrow? It's greed on such a massive scale it's sick. That's not Christianity. That's distorting a belief system into a mockery of itself as a means to justify your own ends. And in fact, it's exactly the same beliefs as these so~called "evildoer terrorists" you hear so much about. Churches are beautiful ~ religious wars are not. There is the good and the bad in Christianity as there is everywhere. ~D Posted by: Dommael on April 24, 2004 02:19 AM"There is the good and the bad in Christianity as there is everywhere." To further the symbology I might add that of war-mongering, dictatorial, britain's King George, (patron saint george) was also the breaking/turning point for those that chose to say "enough" in 1776 . I am most concerned with the "women's rights" gathering in DC this weekend and hope to see a comment by the astrology experts here. The U.S. fascists-fundamentalists hate the notion of our having control over our bodies, the fundamentalist Islamists hate the notion of our having control over our bodies. Any chance either or both have to guarantee that we have no control over our bodies, they will take it. They aren't, of course, but it is almost as if they are in cahoots. Send your "white lights", your best thoughts, your oms and your blessings--whatever! But send those positive energies to those marching this weekend to confirm that women have every right to exist and exist as free, responsible beings upon this mother earth. Posted by: shylurker on April 24, 2004 03:43 AMSally, we're still waiting to see who the dark devil is. Please, please, or is it too dark for us to dabble with? I saw this guy on cspan the other night and was impressed. Real iraq insight. Check him out. I realized after I posted my remark about the one chart that was truly frightening to me that perhaps I shouldn't have. But Dommael guessed it correctly some time back, I have not had the time to get back. It is Negroponte. I don't have his birth time but the 0 degrees fixed signs that his Mars (Aquarius) Saturn (Taurus) and Pluto (Leo)is frightening for a couple of reasons. 1) they are fixed 2) they are exact and 3) they are 0 degrees (critical degrees) Don't have his birthtime so I don't know how close the moon might be to Neptune. With the Sun in an applying conjunction, square and opposition to all three of these critical planets makes this a frightening example of energy and it would take something extrordinary to rise above this chart. I would not do a psychological profile on him. I do know enough about his previous activities to believe he may not have risen above the base chart, unfortunately he has been and will be in the positions to wield a tremendous amount of power over others. His Mercury square Uranus helps him justify anything and everything he might want to do. However that same square could put him in a position from time to time to say more than he should. John Negroponte takes no prisoners. He demands power over and he gets it. Posted by: Sally on April 24, 2004 04:04 AMThanks Sally. No wonder the UN was made impotent. Posted by: Jeanie on April 24, 2004 04:13 AMThanks Sally, John Dimitri Negroponte has been the United States ambassador to the United Nations since September 2001. He is a career diplomat who served in the US Foreign Service from 1960 to 1997. On April 19, 2004, Negroponte was nominated by US President George W. Bush to be US ambassador to Iraq after the June 30 handover. His appointment to the UN post was a controversial one because of his involvement in covert funding of the Contras and his covering up of human rights abuses in Honduras in the 1980s. He is seen by many as a terrorist sponsor for supporting the Contra insurgency against the left wing Sandinistas, the first ever democratically elected government of Nicaragua. He is also accused of inciting Contra attacks on civilians. From 1981 to 1985 Negroponte was US ambassador to Honduras. During his tenure, he oversaw the growth of military aid to Honduras from $4 million to $77.4 million a year. According to The New York Times, Negroponte was responsible for "carrying out the covert strategy of the Reagan administration to crush the Sandinistas government in Nicaragua." Critics say that during his ambassadorship, human rights violations in Honduras became systematic. Negroponte supervised the creation of the El Aguacate air base, where the US trained Nicaraguan Contras and which critics say was used as a secret detention and torture center during the 1980s. In August 2001, excavations at the base discovered 185 corpses, including two Americans, who are thought to have been killed and buried at the site. --------- There's more to my post, just scroll up... I emailed my Congressional Delegation today using the excerpts from:Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. There's much more on Google but I thought above post was enough to cut and paste in an email to Senator etc. Thank you for alerting us... I have been reading about him since run up to invasion last year, realized he was involved in getting coalition of the 'willing' in line... but until you mentioned the chart, and Dommael immediately posted his name I didn't have a clue HOW dark he is... we must try to block his appointment. They were considering Wolfowitz, but then settled on Negroponte... Namaste Posted by: Jo on April 24, 2004 04:49 AMHere is a link to a very eerie picture of Negroponte in front of Picasso's painting - Guernica. The link is fron Atrios. Please forgive me if it is too long, I'm new at links. http://atrios.blogspot.com/2004_04_18_atrios_archive.html#108251438092329166 Posted by: Lena on April 24, 2004 05:28 AMIs Nicholas Negroponte a younger brother? Another cog in the wheel? That would explain some of the media stuff. Nicholas Negroponte (born 1943) is an Greek-American computer scientist best known as founder and director of Massachusetts Institute of Technology's Media Lab. Thanks to his personal charisma and his aura of a technological visionary, he has been very successful at attracting corporate sponsors for the Media Lab, a skill for which he is greatly admired. Born the son of a Greek ship owner on New York City's Upper East Side, Posted by: Jeanie on April 24, 2004 05:34 AMhttp://www.sciencedaily.com/encyclopedia/nicholas_negroponte I may be looking for conspiracies where there are none, but the media's influence over america currently has me thinking. In 2000, the Laboratory began a 10-year collaboration with the Republic of Ireland to establish Media Lab Europe in Dublin. A major, current theme of this independent, university-level, not-for-profit research institute is Intimate Interfaces: bringing together intermodal interfaces, biometric sensing, and rich representations to create intimate and personal connections with and through new technologies. Intimate Interfaces enable reflection, learning, meaning creation, and human connection through these activities. In 2002, Media Lab Europe launched a series of "Open House" events, designed to provide existing and potential partners with an opportunity to learn more about the Lab and to meet with academic and industry leaders in specific fields of interest. To facilitate the free exchange of information, the MIT Media Laboratory and Media Lab Europe are sharing all intellectual property developed at both locations over the initial 10-year period. From 2001 to 2003, MIT and the Government of India participated in an exploratory project, Media Lab Asia (MLAsia), conceived as an independent, non-profit organization, through which the Indian government, MIT, industrial partners, and NGOs would work together to adapt the Media Lab model to the Asian context. The Government of India will continue to fund scientific collaboration between the Media Lab and numerous partners in India on the problems of eDevelopment, thus bringing the benefits of new technologies to the next five billion people. Posted by: Jeanie on April 24, 2004 06:16 AMDid anyone see Nightline? At the very end of the program, Ted Kopple shot an arrow straight at the heart of GWB over the 'flag draped coffins.' It was powerful. Hope you saw it. Posted by: Sally on April 24, 2004 06:19 AMYou know, I truly consider myself fortunate to have found this site, which I think is one of the best on the market; the discussions are so insightful, I learn from them, and the posters all respect each other! Who can ask for more than that! Many thanks to all for the kind words my article generated, and many thanks to all the participants who give me so much information I couldn't find anywhere else; i.e. all the great links to articles, and all the different trains of thoughts and opinions expressed here. I just wanted to add that today is the day of the Mars Return for the U.S., and it is the chart I was talking about in my referencing the Mars/Pluto aspect. Pluto at 20-22 degrees of Sag is aspecting Mars off and on in this chart, since the US Mars is at 21 degrees. In addition, since the current Mars occulation is in Gemini, Pluto has been aspecting that degree of oppostion to itself for several days, witness the news about the explosion in N. Korea, etc. That is a typical Mars/Pluto opposition aspect. As it happens the Mars Return for the US is in the midst of this and that is the reason the Mars Return chart, which is a chart for when Mars returns to its original position in the birth chart, i.e. the US chart, harnesses this energy. In other years, that wouldn't be the case, due to the different aspects there will be at that time. After the Woodward interview I saw the one with Mary J. Blighe (I hope the spelling is correct). She is an artist whose work I was unfamiliar with, but she talked about her life and she made the point that until she changed herself she would continue to manifest the same old patterns in life that confounded her, i.e. being in constantly abusive relationships. Once she confronted her own issues, she stopped letting herself into these situations. Now astrology-wise (and I know nothing about Mary J Blighes chart), but for example if she had a Moon/Venus conjunction in Cancer she might be inclined to be very nuturing and giving and easy going. If she used that energy to encounter men who used her over and over again, then she would be using that energy incorrectly, even though it is considered to be a good aspect. So a Mars/Pluto oppostion can be used positively or negatively, it doesn't have to be all plotting and destruction, unless the people involved make it so. Any aspect or chart signature depends on how it is acted out, even a positive aspect can be turned negative and vice versa. Posted by: Isabelle Ghaneh on April 24, 2004 11:15 AMmore good reading http://www.villagevoice.com/print/issues/0416/schanberg.php Posted by: wv on April 24, 2004 03:04 PMNancy gave a very succinct explanation of the Neocons' agenda in her last article which she gleaned from the writings of the cabal that now runs this country and seeks to rule the planet: "The ambitious and grandiose plan of men such as Donald Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz, and Richard Perle, to name but a few, is well-documented in the writings of the Project for a New American Century (PNAC). In short, it seeks to maximize American hegemony, prevent any other nation from competing with that global dominance - both militarily and economically, and it begins with the ousting of Saddam Hussein and the creation of a puppet democracy in Iraq. According to this plan, Iraq would then become a strategic center for American military power and dominance from which the entire oil-rich Middle East would be policed and controlled." Decades another agenda was published which went unheeded: Mein Kampf by Adolf Hitler, wherein he too outlined his agenda. After the defeat of the NAZIs many pundits remarked that if we had paid more attention to his writings, if we had understood that he intended to do what he said, no matter how incredible it may have sounded, the destruction and mayhem of his regime might have been averted or at least aborted sooner. We come full circle with another plan different group, different origins... same objective: world dominance. We read doublespeak in the mainstream articles, in the press releases from the White House and countless other places. The actions of this administration have no correlation whatsoever with what they articulate. Their plan is as Nancy has outlined. Their actions give evidence to that plan. Some folks think those who support Bush are asleep, conned, whatever... Perhaps some of them actually concur unconsciously with their power objectives. Scary thought, huh... In a post above Nancy tells us in answer to my query about the image or essence of this country collectively that: As for our aggressiveness and greed, Pluto in the second house is insatiable greed until it is transformed to higher consciousness. Perhaps when Pluto opposes all the US Cancer planets (2010 to 2015) we will have along, slow, painful but necessary awakening. The chart for GWB Administration has nPluto 14" Sag in 8th house conj nMoon 19" Sag (source Star4cast). Nancy, I'm sure you or Sally has covered this admin's chart in another thread. Would you please direct me, or offer an analysis of nPluto in the chart as it pertains to what is going on now. It's probably been done recently and I just read too fast. I know Sally was going to do Pluto in her series on Riders of the Storm so perhaps I am pre-empting something to come. If so, I will be patient. Namaste Posted by: Jo on April 24, 2004 04:25 PM Ray Merriman, over on StarIQ, has posted his article for this coming week. Interesting analysis of Smirky's chances for election. Please share your reactions. Posted by: shylurker on April 24, 2004 04:38 PMShylurker, that was an interesting look. I found the article by Henry Seltzer, 'Ides of June' an incredible read. As for Merriman's we'll see which way the $$$ turn. Speaking of, IMF is meeting this weekend and very upset with Bush wrecking the global economy. Posted by: Morgana on April 24, 2004 04:49 PMHey this will brighten your day! From http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4800044/ If the presidential election were held this week, who would you vote for? * 124671 responses
It is a site that you want to bookmark and read bits at a time. But it tells exactly who killed JFK and who told them to. They confessed for lords sake and unless you find it on the web, you don't know it. There are several links on this site who even make a better case for Bush being one of the main players. Did the Bushes help to kill JFK?
There is the Moon of the mature woman and conjunct Venus 5 degrees of the young woman conjunct Mars-going to battle in the 9th and 10th house of the courts and gov. Then you have the Sun in the 8th of self undoing. The water signs are on the cusp of the 11 of congress, 3rd of communication and 7th of open enemies. The ascendent is 22 Virgo which conjuncts the July 4th chart Neptune. And the chart Neptune is in rebellious Aquarius which trians Venus in Gemini. You have the 10, 1, 4, 7 th cusps spreading the word thru the mutible signs and the inner signs that count in the emotional water signs. I see the symbol as the emotional (female energies) cleansing the capital. Posted by: Jean on April 24, 2004 05:56 PM
Jean Posted by: Jean on April 24, 2004 06:07 PMJean we also have Pallas Athene (Warrior Goddess) asteroid at 29 Taurus 52 in the 6th House of the U.S. chart today forming a strong trine to the U.S Midheaven. That critical 29th degree...I notice none of the cable news channels are covering it. That Goddess Warrior energy is at it's highest manifestation. Morgana, thanks for the heads up. I went to MSNBC and added my vote. Did you see the CNN poll for the draft? 70% to 29% yesterday some time. Speaking of polls, LATimes quotes recent one today indicating Bush has taken a significant drop and Kerry is leading. I can't get in, don't subscribe... would someone get that and post here? Namaste Posted by: Jo on April 24, 2004 06:10 PMMorgana, I've looked everywhere for something on the march and nada except few lines in WaPo... Now had a lovely Indian woman on last night talking about women losing ground under Bush all over the globe (I tuned in midway the discussion). This administration would like to roll us back to the '50s on womens issues and their supportive media is going to remain silent. You would think female journalists would make some noise, at least today. Namaste Posted by: Jo on April 24, 2004 06:17 PMjean -- thanks for the above list of bushie sr and jfk..but more important this behavior goes on today with the bin ladens.... morgana, the poll numbers are real..those are, indeed. enough fear of negroponte...do we REALLY need an astrocartography chart to know that iraq is where he is put out of his misery? where it all comes back to choke him to death...hell i wouldn't want that natal chart for fear of a violent death, no???? it can't get more obvious, let's just hope it's sooner than later. i'm really glad i was tired and did not watch nightline last nite sally. what with the moon conjunct mars, between eclipses... i had recently purchased for five dollars a vhs of HAIR the movie...never knew it was about nam or anything in particular, and both my husband and i were very emotional after watching it last nite.. the pics of the flag draped coffins were looming in the back of my mind, and that nightline woulda really been a bit too much for me.. nevertheless considering the stars, i hope that it had a big viewing audience.. Jo, Were you watching PBS, Bill Moyer's NOW? The Presidental of the Global Fund (I believe that's the name), Kavitas Ramadi (close enough) was being interviewed and, you are right, she was lovely. Also, in charge, highly motivated, stunning and brilliant. It made me feel so good about women. Sharon Katz Posted by: Sharon Katz on April 24, 2004 06:29 PMJo, I guess I didn't understand you correctly, but the LA Times is publishing a poll of Californian's take on Smirky and Kerry. All you have to do is answer a few of their questions and then you have entry (much like the NY Times). I just type in a bunch of hooey, except, of course, for my email. Please advise if I've misunderstood what you want. Posted by: shylurker on April 24, 2004 06:46 PMShylurker, I have tried to register twice... once 6 mos. ago... I complete everything (hooey and all) and they tell me email is coming to confirm, but it doesn't! I haven't had that problem with NYT or WaPo or anyone else... go figure... that don't want me to read their paper!? Oh, the poll is for CA only? I misunderstood the headline... I thought it was a nat'l poll... thanks anyway... just looking for some cheery news! Tense weekend, you know, for everyone... Peace Posted by: Jo on April 24, 2004 06:53 PMRoxanne, I never thought about a danger to Negroponte himself, being in Iraq... primarily because he's been in dangerous places most of his life and has managed to get to be a senior citizen. Knowing the enemy doesn't necessarily increase the fear level... the Admin is passing him off as a 'career diplomat' and I'm simply elaborating on what kind of diplomacy he uses. I intend to make an effort to keep him out of Iraq, though. We don't need his particular methodology there, increasing the instability of the country and the entire ME. Just my take on things. Thank you for reminding us to check out the sky last night. btw, I'm Southern and very thick skinned, but I would appreciate it if you would not refer to Southerns as Bigots so often... we're not all bigots... and I've been out of the South and encountered a few, so I know the South doesn't have the corner on that market. :-) Peace and light, Jo Posted by: Jo on April 24, 2004 07:08 PMOh~mah~gawd. Jerry Falwell & Jabba the Hutt~! Lena, that shot of Negroponte with Guernica and the Fox News Microphone is pretty much a straight~up affirmation of Synchronicity ~ All aspects of the media are being heavily scrutinized and analyzed for profitable patterns to the corporations. Corporations are reaching the point where they do not have allegiance to any one country. It is pretty likely that the effects of media saturation on Americans in comparison to those people from other countries are known. I hate to say it ~ but the analogy in *Finding Nemo* of the fish inside the fishbowl trying to figure a way out of an environment completely controlled by others is pretty accurate. Enlightening posts ~ Isabelle, Jo, Sally and all... Just to lighten things up a bit, I'm about to start re~reading the Illuminatus! Trilogy by Robert Shea and Robert Anton Wilson, and I'm especially looking forward to reading about the character of the Dealey Lama ~ who is an ancient mystic who astrally projects from underneath Dealey Plaza. I've been to Dealey plaza and it's definitely got a funny feel to it, with the city of Dallas all around it. How great if it were true! Namaste~ ~D Posted by: Dommael on April 24, 2004 07:24 PMMorgana, I should have paid more attention to your comment about the warrior goddess! She's semi-square my nMercury in Cancer... making me a little abrasive... esp. about 'home'... Roxanne! I apologize... you make those comments all the time, and I know where you're coming from, heck I even agree with you most days... don't know why I decided to be so dadblame assertive today... just forget it, okay...? sorry Jo Posted by: Jo on April 24, 2004 07:31 PMI'm also a Southerner ~ and the fact Bu$h taints my proud heritage with his oiley persona motiates me that much further to expose his lies and greed. If I'm analyzing Negroponte correctly ~ the issue is that his brain is finely~tuned on techniques of torture and his decisions and advice violate the most fundamental human rights. He has no hesitation for murder, kidnapping, torture and cruelty in directing the void~of~ethics purposes of influentical men. Now, The Influential Men in God~Bless~America that are using hired thugs and mercs to gain hedonistic profits from Iraqdonald's are delighted in introducing him into this boiling scenario to benefit from his vast wisdom. Namaste~ ~D Posted by: Dommael on April 24, 2004 07:39 PMThis in from Daily Kos on Fallujah: "WASHINGTON, April 24 -- Facing one of the grimmest choices of the Iraq war, President Bush and his senior national security and military advisers are expected to decide this weekend whether to order an invasion of Falluja, even if a battle there runs the risk of uprisings in the city and perhaps elsewhere around Iraq. But in interviews, administration and senior military officials portrayed Mr. Bush's choices as dismal. "It's clear you can't leave a few thousand insurgents there to terrorize the city and shoot at us," one senior official involved in the discussions said on Saturday. "The question now is whether there is a way to go in with the most minimal casualties possible." --------------- Remember couple days ago when it was reported that orders came from way up, all the way to Dubya, to seige the City, as collective punishment for the death of the 4 mercenaries and the abusive treatment of their dead bodies? Didn't someone advise Dubya before he made that decision that collective punishment is a war crime? Did he not expect the people to resist when they were shot at, their homes destroyed? So let me understand this 'logic' --- now that we have had them under seige for days, we're going to carpet bomb them and make the City safe? Anti-war is simply a rational, logical approach to resolution of conflict. But we're 'wrong', right? Yeah, and up is down... and a weak dollar is 'strong'... and deficits are good... and, Hey Dommael, I like your posts better than mine! Has anyone done a chart on 6/30/2004 for the 'fake handover' to Iraqis? Namaste Roxanne, you crack me up with your intuitive flashes of brilliance. When Negroponte was in South America spreading the worst of humanity across the country, Pluto was coming to 0 Scorpio completing a grand fixed Cross with Mars/Saturn/Pluto, by 2005 Saturn will be conj. his Pluto setting off the violence in his chart, when I looked at his chart and saw that Saturn will be Conj his Sun this fall, I thought exactly what you said "he will meet his waterloo in Iraq" I think Bremer would be smart to get out of there as soon as possible and I think Bremer knows it. As far as Pluto, you are right he is the subject of my next article. Thank you to everyone here for your ideas, answers, insights, etc. This is the very first website (my favorite) I come to whenever I use the internet at the library. We have unlimited time and is such a blessing! However, I do look around a lot for other perspectives and JO (and anyone else) this might be of help to you regarding your questions about U.S. unpopularity, definitely Pluto stuff, war stuff, Bush stuff. I printed it out last summer and have referred to it often. There is a lot there, you may want to print it out too. It is an excellent analysis. About 1/3 of the way down the Page titled "It's in the Stars, It Was the Worst Possible Time For a War, & Bush May not Last Out His Term". Also a paragraph on Chiron.http://www.parallel-youniversity.com/emag/up155.htm Has anyone seen this report before? Would be interested in discussing this if anyone interested. Don't try to link from my previous post as it doesn't work right. Please just type the address in and it will come up as described. Interesting reading. Beverly, thanks, a TERRIFIC link (need to copy and paste and add an 'l' at end, last's all Bev) Will read this for hours... great site... Namaste Posted by: Jo on April 24, 2004 08:09 PM"My~mind~to~your~mind", Jo. ::holds hand up to simulate Vulcan mind~meld technique:: ~D Posted by: Dommael on April 24, 2004 08:21 PMThe California Poll from the LA Times Posted by: wv on April 24, 2004 08:26 PMBeverly, I'm getting an error message from that site. Sometimes libraries have weird networks and passages. ~D Posted by: Dommael on April 24, 2004 08:26 PMWV, thanks for posting the LAT link... interesting read... particularly: "If the election were held today, the poll found, California voters would choose Kerry over Bush, 53% to 41%, in a two-way race. With independent Ralph Nader on the ballot, Kerry would still defeat Bush in a romp, 49% to 39%, with Nader at 6%." ------------------------ Sally, thanks for the update on Negroponte... Namaste Posted by: Jo on April 24, 2004 09:00 PMI find Anne's (author of article "It's in the Stars") comment about USA Chiron "a deep-rooted self-doubt covered over by aggressive defensiveness" absolutely accurate. Am I just cynical or do you people see this in America's make-up also? Some of her interpretations are down right frightening. Especially about the 2nd to 8th house death, transformation, economic, financial problems. What are people supposed to do to maintain their lives if they can't find work????? Shylurker, Morgana, ---------- Juan Cole reports while we've been focused on Fallujah and Najaf, several confrontations between occupiers and insurgents have resulted in another bloody Saturday... http://www.juancole.com/ Peace Posted by: Jo on April 24, 2004 09:26 PMJo the march is tomorrow (not today, but) women are coming, thousands are gathering in Washington. John Kerry's daughters are marching as well as his sister. Pallas Athene will be 0 Gemenii 32 in a Noon chart for tomorrow, I don't know when the march starts. This should be interesting. Posted by: Morgana on April 24, 2004 09:35 PMLooks like all hell is breaking loose in Iraq. Again. Posted by: Larry on April 24, 2004 09:41 PMMorgana thanks, I'm struggling with an upper respiratory problem right now, but I feel as tho' my brain is fried... of course the march is tomorrow! and I continue to flip letters all around so peculiar looking words are appearing in my posts! Beverly, I enjoyed reading your post above... particularly the NPR report on Peak Oil... we talk about it on the internet, but try that with a family member and they think you're 'tinhat'... "I find Anne's (author of article "It's in the Stars") comment about USA Chiron "a deep-rooted self-doubt covered over by aggressive defensiveness" absolutely accurate. Am I just cynical or do you people see this in America's make-up also? " No, I don't think you're cynical. I've always tossed that image off to the country being young (teenager)compared to Europe... but the wounded aspect makes sense. Also, from your post above: I really would like to hear from our folks on that. Morgana? what do you think? Namaste Right now, I'd like to know who bought all those "put options" prior to 9-11. The government knows, or so I've read, but they ain't saying. Wonder why not? Posted by: shylurker on April 24, 2004 10:28 PMhey jo! no i don't mean all southerners..i love country music too..real country music, and great artists from the south like janis joplin, and elvis of course, and glen campbell who uses the same rare guitar strings as me (my shop gave my special order to him!)and jimmy carter is my fave pres. i know how you feel because i go through it all the time when people brush all 'christians' with the 'idiot and warmonger' brush. yes sally, in fact my 'flash' thought it would happen almost right away, so that was encouraging to the ego of my intuition to learn he has bad saturn aspects as soon as the fall..we can hope. i can envision God with his hand on his beard trying to figure out who should be taught a lesson, bremer, wolfowitz, and then settling on negroponte..maybe he is speaking to bushie after all...hahahah.. it's so great to have this site, because it's difficult getting through these times, and i really mean the present tense of the eclipses and merc rx and this war. the linked article from above by the canadian writer who said, the war didn't start last march, but two weeks ago should only know about astrology. how fortunate we are to learn that it is possible that this particular bad chapter is almost over. even if we have to pay for it for years into the future. despite kerry's good chart, and his practical shoe-in in november, he still doesn't have that je ne sais qoui of clinton, which america really needs now..i think we definitely need a cheery leo right now...who cares if his zipper is down! kerry isn't exactly a beacon of light..and despite the prominent jupiter he seems saturnine to me. everyone knows i'm infatuated with ralph ; - ), but he is also too serious after all we've been through, from the coup to 9/11 to this war..despite howard dean's perceived anger, he seems the most merry..he always reminded me of barney rubble. Posted by: Roxanne on April 24, 2004 10:44 PMYippeeeeeee! Not all the press is hypno I could definitely hang with Barney Rubble. He and Betty always seemed like they had their act together. ~D Posted by: Dommael on April 25, 2004 12:52 AMFallujah is ready to erupt. Bush is going to give the word. And I am beyond sad today, all day. Anybody else feel it? So much death. Posted by: Peg on April 25, 2004 12:58 AMhttp://www.mindfully.org/Nucs/2003/Leuren-Moret-Gen-Groves21feb03.htm Posted by: Pat on April 25, 2004 01:55 AMEven as these events are transpiring, more and more folks are awakening to the dire consequences of Bu$h's decisions. There is a shift in the balance of mass consciousness. I actually saw that USA Today has a front page article describing how the U.S. is pursuing "alternate courses of action" to overcome the difficulties facing an "occupying army." Not too long ago the term "occupation" was considered too over-the-top for public discourse and it doesn't take a genius to read a dire double~meaning in "alternate courses" for such a heavy~handed, knee~jerk invasion as we have been shown. As this happens, it is somewhat inevitable that people become more aware and organize into sort of vigilance committees [a volunteer committee of citizens for the oversight and protection of any interest, especially for the summary suppression and punishment of crime, as when the processes of law appear inadequate.] This is indeed a somber day, but there is always hope. Hopefully as a collective we can find a way to support the truth and Bu$h's cabal will face an International War Crimes Tribunal as they deserve. My heart really does go out to the innocent victims of this war. ~D Posted by: Dommael on April 25, 2004 03:27 AMJo wrote: OK guys, this is long but bear with my convoluted thinking here. I started thinking about Ambassador Negroponte and all that that entails, found out about his brother Nicholas and his role in the US and now global media, learned that father was a greek shipping magnate. Haven’t been able to find out anything yet about the Negroponte father and whatever happened with the shipping connection and its money, but it turns out a great number of greeks went to England toward the end of the Hitler era. He then apparently came to the US because the younger brother was born in NY. OK, so where does Spiro Agnew fit in. Turns out that he was the son of a Greek immigrant, and, although his father had been a local democrat leader, (with all those payoffs, were there mob connections?) he changed party affiliation to republican and apparently disdained “liberal intellectuals.” ------ John Ehrlichman sourly noted, Agnew "could take the texts prepared in the President's speechwriting shop, change a phrase here and there, and hit the road to attack the effete corps of impudent snobs." His colorful phrases, like "nattering nabobs of negativism," and "radiclibs" (for radical liberals) were compiled and published as "commonsense quotations." Perhaps Nixon recognized a kindred skullduggery spirit, but then got ticked off when he began to be upstaged. I wonder if Nixon didn’t somehow arrange to have him brought down in disgrace to try to take the heat off himself. So then I come across an webpage that summarized events in greek history going all the way back to BC times. Surprisingly it noted: Agnew’s influence also appears to have been a pivotal point in the republican takeover over the south. It would be interesting to learn how much interaction Agnew and Cheney had at that time and what alliances were formed behind the scenes. Cheney worked in the white house and then went on to be Ford’s chief of staff, a very influential position. The link above states that after leaving the white house “Agnew moved to Rancho Mirage, California, where he became an international business consultant, tapping many of the contacts he had made with foreign governments on travels abroad as vice president.” I wonder who his dealings were with. And that brings me right back to Jo’s comment about the cowboy boots. And Bush’s recent comments distaining liberal intellectuals among other statements, combined with actions taken by this administration’s inside players that have their roots dating back to the Nixon then Reagan era and are seemingly interwoven with making money from oil - drilling or perhaps transporting – and all the while influencing international politics. And now back to John Negroponte. Privileged childhood because of wealthy shipping magnate father. (shipping what?) Graduated from Yale. Joined foreign service in 1960. Hong Kong 1960-63, Vietnam 1964-68, Ecuador 1973-75, Greece 1975-77, Honduras 1981-85 El Salvador 1984, Mexico 1989, Philippines 1994. Picked by Kissinger to head Vietnam secret negotiations, oversaw growth of military aid in Honduras from $4million to $77.4million. Don’t know what religion he is – perhaps it’s the religion of consumption. McGraw-Hill Executive VP for global markets 1997-2000. And brother Nicholas neatly ties in with non-profit MIT MediaCenter research in education and media. Coincidences? So, we have an unholy alliance of players that dream of global political and information control/manipulation of the masses, combined with control of earth’s resources/wealth that drive industry and commerce and without which, military and political dominance would not be possible. But then, sadly, that is not a new story. I’d love to hear your thoughts on this, and how current transits, govt events&players might further tie in with transits and events set in motion during the Nixon/Agnew era and effects on the global stage. Shylurker, Jeanie, you've been working, girl! Jerry Politex has a wonderful TimeLine on the Bush Family going back to 1918 and Prescott. It's much to long to paste here... but I'm sure you'll want to check it out... Jerry is very reputable and checks his facts before he puts anything on his website. NYT front page has a piece about the cost of Iraq. I feel the press opening up to this... I think they see the Admin preparing us for Fallujah and they don't agree... you can smell it in Dowd's column linked above... Jeanie thank you for all the connected dots... I will comment more on your piece later. It's very interesting. Namaste Posted by: on April 25, 2004 04:15 AMThanks for the link to Maureen "the redhead" article in the N.Y. Times - she sure hit the nail on the head with this one ..I've passed it along for others to read! Maybe it will open some eyes along the way! I've also written to thank her for speaking out and posting that as well! Posted by: Siobhan on April 25, 2004 04:45 AMThis is some additional information on the 'dark' side of GWB. http://www.realchange.org/bushjr.htm Posted by: Sally on April 25, 2004 07:55 AMand this http://www.spiritone.com/~gdy52150/bushies.htm and this http://www.spiritone.com/~gdy52150/timeline.html All of what is happening goes back a long way and the neo-cons have been working on this moment in time since 1936 at least. I am a hard core history buff and much of what we are seeing now has it's roots in the McKinley presidency, the same family names, the same financial institutions, the same corporations are involved. Lincoln warned of this day as did Grant, Teddy Roosevelt, FDR, Eisenhower and more. The corruption goes across party lines, educational institutions, and many corporations. If you want a real scare and education Google in Skull and Bones Conspiracy. I have read, taken courses and researched all of this since I was 21 and lived for a couple of years with a great aunt in California who was part of the Trilateral Commission and her friends were the Rockefellers, Vanderbilts, Rothchilds, Harrimans, Forbes etc. I was there when John Kennedy was killed and they had a party and it scared the daylights out of me and I came home soon after and told my parents, that's when I started my research, that was 40 years ago. Up until GWB took office, when I talked to anyone about any of this they laughed at me, now it's all coming out and more and more people are learning about this. It will frighten you in the beginning, or confuse, or deny, or you feel powerless because the threads are so tight and so interwoven. But I am watching happen what I heard planned 40 years ago by these people, they believe they are and have been annointed by God. GWB would not understand why the people might not 'get' what he said to Bob Woodward, he thinks, they all think the people will embrace their vision of the world and the future. There is much talk of a secret government behind this government and there is, even Bush said so, but there is a power behind all of it, all the world and they pull strings you would not believe. In the US and Europe they sometimes pull liberal strings and sometimes conservative, trying to keep it all balanced. If they didn't want George there, if he was not fulfilling their objective, he would be gone. This isn't new, it's old and it has a life of it's own, only the names have changed through the centuries, from Constitine the Great to the Medici's, to the House of Hanover, to some of our Founding Fathers to the Robber Barons, to the Bush family and their friends. Sometimes I think that what we know as earth is just a place to experience a live and to gain a portion of our soul's education. This 'hydra' keeps rearing it's head every 50 to 75 years and the same experiences are repeated so a new generation can learn.I also believe the world will go on right on through the corruption and darkness and that we have an opportunity to envision what we want Our World to look like and bring it about. Posted by: Sally on April 25, 2004 08:29 AMThe skull and crossbones thing is scary. Always has been. Seems like someone forgot to ask an astrologer..or maybe they don't use them. What is it with bush team co and picking days just before Mercury goes direct? Good for us though. "On April 29, Bush volunteers will stage another one. That night, the Bush campaign will sponsor a nationwide “Party for the President” that functionally reproduces the Dean campaign’s September 29 “largest conference call in the world,”" http://www.prospect.org/web/page.ww?section=root&name=ViewWeb&articleId=7624 Posted by: Cass on April 25, 2004 09:45 AMWow is this some retrograde!! Don't know about y'all, but with the Plutonian energy added in, it's been a helluva ride! Gladens my old Southern heart to see the Shrub tripped up on all sides, go Woodward! Amazingly tho how the general public still clings to him, sees him as honorable and a strong leader blah blah ad nauseum. There were some posts here awhile back about collective cognitive dissonance, boy is that right!! Does anyone have any astrological insights as to what aspects might lift that "veil" from the collective US conciousness? I myslef have had some visions of more sh*t hitting the fan around the next full moon. Anyone else? Wow is this some retrograde!! Don't know about y'all, but with the Plutonian energy added in, it's been a helluva ride! Gladens my old Southern heart to see the Shrub tripped up on all sides, go Woodward! Amazingly tho how the general public still clings to him, sees him as honorable and a strong leader blah blah ad nauseum. There were some posts here awhile back about collective cognitive dissonance, boy is that right!! Does anyone have any astrological insights as to what aspects might lift that "veil" from the collective US conciousness? I myslef have had some visions of more sh*t hitting the fan around the next full moon. Anyone else? WaPo has beginning of three part series on Political Split Is Pervasive "The past decade has been one of the most eventful in American political history, from the Republican takeover of Congress to the presidential impeachment, the resignation of two speakers of the House, the deadlocked presidential election, the 2001 terrorist attacks, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and more. And yet, like a bathroom scale springing back to zero, the electorate keeps returning to near-parity. It's happening again: A little more than six months before Election Day, numerous polls find President Bush in a very tight race with Democratic challenger Sen. John F. Kerry among a sharply divided electorate. A large number of voters -- seven in 10, according to one Pew Research Center poll -- say they have already made up their minds and cannot be swayed." More... http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A39044-2004Apr24.html Posted by: Jo on April 25, 2004 01:53 PMMcGraw-Hill ripped me off on an educational textbook job I did last year. I had a huge fight with my agent beacuase McG-H did not acknowlegde or pay for the work they asked me to do and then re-do under contract! They suck! Speaking of HAIR, my musician boyfriend all through my 20's (hitting 50 this year) was friends with the director of the original B'wy play. Went to a few Halloween parties with incredible artists and performers. Just before the election of Bush 1 the 'funhouse' room was a hallway with aluminum foil on the walls and strobe lights, it led you into the 1000 Points of Light room. In there was a photo of a very old Reagan ,still president and torture racks and a map of the world with targets of every country we have ever invaded since that time. Sally, "As for our aggressiveness and greed, Pluto in the second house is insatiable greed until it is transformed to higher consciousness. Perhaps when Pluto opposes all the US Cancer planets (2010 to 2015) we will have along, slow, painful but necessary awakening." Most on us on this board are 'energy' oriented... we attempt to explain the external in terms of different energies and specifically here we use the tool of astrology to gain understanding and insight. But the external floods our Beings everyday with 'words' and lately most of those come in the guise of propaganda and more specifically doublespeak. If those of us who have an awareness of the influences and interactions of 'energy' have difficultly staying centered and objective, just imagine the struggle of those who view the external machinations as 'truth/realilty' Sally commented recently that she feels the gates of hell have opened, and another time she commented: "Bush and this administration is going to go on stripping this country and it will take at least 20 years to undo all that has already been done even if he is gone tomorrow. If each one of us could take a few minutes everyday and envision him out of the White House, out, and never a Bush there again." Ah, wise woman... thou hast reminded us of our power! Sally's right... we must 'envision' him out and envision that energy diminished --- however we do that and we each have our own unique individual way. In the 1600s this country, this continent, appeared to those of the 'old world' as a huge treasure chest, just waiting for the taking. The wealth of resources was like a magnet attracting those in need as well as those of greed. Thousand of years before the arrival of the Europeans, people respectful of this planet were the caretakers of this wealth. We readily displaced them... the Plutonian energy swirling in our 2nd house was transported into this land of plenty... We have cut and slashed our way from coast to coast, depleting our resources and our own potential... leaving in our wake 'dumbed down, unskilled, over medicated, overfed folks, who like a huge ignorant hungry beast look around the world to see where our next free lunch is coming from... sitting atop us, are the parasites who have harnessed our energy and brought us to this demise. Dubya and his ilk are a manifestation of this energy and we seek to rid our White House and our lives of it. Well, the 'house' is no longer white, it is dark... and the world no longer sees light on these shores... it sees the hungry beast coming. I personally have allowed the words and labels of this energy to knock me off center... Jaycee posted: "...Our polarities are showing again. Perhaps there is another way, one that goes beyond polarity. Envision the hightest for all. Perhaps that is what the outer planet transits are trying to teach us. ...Pluto says transform. Neptune says aspire to the highest. Uranus says Wake up and Saturn says assume responsibility. This is true for each of us." Jaycee is right on, along with the sage Sally. We individually must work the energy of the collective. [Jaycee = J.C. there is another J.C. who suggested the kingdom is within] My own energy is as conflicted as that of the external... the wordophile does constant battle with the intuitive... life lesson here. Yesterday Roxanne reminded us: "i know how you feel because i go through it all the time when people brush all 'christians' with the 'idiot and warmonger' brush." It's true. In our response... in our defense of the words and DEEDS we experience from that dark energy in the WH we label, broad brush. This struggle is frustrating... our loved ones get sick, we take them to the doctor... we care for them. Our country is sick, and I'm frustrated. Sally also commented: "Jane, in two years the US progressed Mars goes retrograde, that has never happened in the US energy, it has in other countries but not here. Mars retrograde in a person's chart signals a slow down of ambition, a loss of power without caring. Mars will be retrograde in the US chart for decades, will we lose our thirst for power, will we join the rest of the world or will we be topled. Any of these options are possible." So, our wise woman Sally is telling us we will have difficult times and choices. In my arrogance that I have the 'right' take on politics and an understanding of pluto's transit of USA mars, etc., I have assumed that I am sufficiently aware of my own need of transformation as Pluto opposes my Sun. I am seeing the beam in the eye of... the universe sent me a strong message this week. I started having a little upper respiratory problem and then 2-3 days ago my right eye swelled up, became all red... little blindness manifesting there. Thank you all for your energy, for being here, for your insights and the good energy I find here. Namaste Sally, "As for our aggressiveness and greed, Pluto in the second house is insatiable greed until it is transformed to higher consciousness. Perhaps when Pluto opposes all the US Cancer planets (2010 to 2015) we will have along, slow, painful but necessary awakening." Most on us on this board are 'energy' oriented... we attempt to explain the external in terms of different energies and specifically here we use the tool of astrology to gain understanding and insight. But the external floods our Beings everyday with 'words' and lately most of those come in the guise of propaganda and more specifically doublespeak. If those of us who have an awareness of the influences and interactions of 'energy' have difficultly staying centered and objective, just imagine the struggle of those who view the external machinations as 'truth/realilty' Sally commented recently that she feels the gates of hell have opened, and another time she commented: "Bush and this administration is going to go on stripping this country and it will take at least 20 years to undo all that has already been done even if he is gone tomorrow. If each one of us could take a few minutes everyday and envision him out of the White House, out, and never a Bush there again." Ah, wise woman... thou hast reminded us of our power! Sally's right... we must 'envision' him out and envision that energy diminished --- however we do that and we each have our own unique individual way. In the 1600s this country, this continent, appeared to those of the 'old world' as a huge treasure chest, just waiting for the taking. The wealth of resources was like a magnet attracting those in need as well as those of greed. Thousand of years before the arrival of the Europeans, people respectful of this planet were the caretakers of this wealth. We readily displaced them... the Plutonian energy swirling in our 2nd house was transported into this land of plenty... We have cut and slashed our way from coast to coast, depleting our resources and our own potential... leaving in our wake 'dumbed down, unskilled, over medicated, overfed folks, who like a huge ignorant hungry beast look around the world to see where our next free lunch is coming from... sitting atop us, are the parasites who have harnessed our energy and brought us to this demise. Dubya and his ilk are a manifestation of this energy and we seek to rid our White House and our lives of it. Well, the 'house' is no longer white, it is dark... and the world no longer sees light on these shores... it sees the hungry beast coming. I personally have allowed the words and labels of this energy to knock me off center... Jaycee posted: "...Our polarities are showing again. Perhaps there is another way, one that goes beyond polarity. Envision the hightest for all. Perhaps that is what the outer planet transits are trying to teach us. ...Pluto says transform. Neptune says aspire to the highest. Uranus says Wake up and Saturn says assume responsibility. This is true for each of us." Jaycee is right on, along with the sage Sally. We individually must work the energy of the collective. [Jaycee = J.C. there is another J.C. who suggested the kingdom is within] My own energy is as conflicted as that of the external... the wordophile does constant battle with the intuitive... life lesson here. Yesterday Roxanne reminded us: "i know how you feel because i go through it all the time when people brush all 'christians' with the 'idiot and warmonger' brush." It's true. In our response... in our defense of the words and DEEDS we experience from that dark energy in the WH we label, broad brush. This struggle is frustrating... our loved ones get sick, we take them to the doctor... we care for them. Our country is sick, and I'm frustrated. Sally also commented: "Jane, in two years the US progressed Mars goes retrograde, that has never happened in the US energy, it has in other countries but not here. Mars retrograde in a person's chart signals a slow down of ambition, a loss of power without caring. Mars will be retrograde in the US chart for decades, will we lose our thirst for power, will we join the rest of the world or will we be topled. Any of these options are possible." So, our wise woman Sally is telling us we will have difficult times and choices. In my arrogance that I have the 'right' take on politics and an understanding of pluto's transit of USA mars, etc., I have assumed that I am sufficiently aware of my own need of transformation as Pluto opposes my Sun. I am seeing the beam in the eye of... the universe sent me a strong message this week. I started having a little upper respiratory problem and then 2-3 days ago my right eye swelled up, became all red... little blindness manifesting there. Thank you all for your energy, for being here, for your insights and the good energy I find here. Namaste Jo, when digging up the 'family bones' figuring out my psychology I called many members of the family to hear their stories. I awoke with a back out of wack and was in pain for two days. Usually in good shape and coordinated this really concerned me. Went to sleep and told the Universe that I refused to take on the pain of the family into my body and awoke cured! I am reminded of Carlos Castaneda's book "The Fire From Within", and more specifically Chapter 2. Chapter 2 in entitled "Petty Tyrants". I recommend giving it a read. It is most enlightening, especially during these times...and there are many lessons there. Posted by: Pat on April 25, 2004 07:13 PMFor a BIG PICTURE view regarding the several inquiries about Pluto, I would like to recommend reading: Jeffery Wolf Green
for someone in your area who will treat your
Sally, thanks once again for your wisdom. Years ago circumstance landed me around some VERY wealthy people in the mediteranean and all of a sudden this wave of understanding hit me and I realized that most of the world had absolutely no comprehension that this whole other level existed and that thats where the real decisions are made. I intuited at that time that the rest is somewhat political window dressing to placate the global masses. In my searching yesterday I also came across this I don't know if any of you here are familiar with the work of Caroline Myss. As she puts it, we incarnate here to learn. If, for instance, we incarnate to learn French, it matters not whether we learn it at the Sorbonne or we learn in the gutter. What matters is that we DO learn French. Posted by: Jeanie on April 25, 2004 08:19 PMI am having this vague memory of reading Ruth Montgomery (maybe Jeanne Dixon who she wrote about)and she spoke of the next Anti -Christ as being born of an established political family with four letters in the name. Am I dreaming this or does anyone out there remember too and where to find this info (which book)? Posted by: bhakti on April 25, 2004 09:13 PMbhakti, Pat, and while I'm retreating, I will re-read Carlos -- I quickly reread today and realized how much I had forgotten! There is much grist for the mill... a little Ram Dass would be comforting too Namaste VW, thank you for the reference... I was misleading, I don't have any diminishing of vision, 'physical' blindness, that is... certainly some spiritual blindness in need of balance... I have seen a doctor, taking an antibiotic... namaste Beverly, I will try to obtain a copy of Green's Pluto... he wrote on Uranus and Neptune also... his books are difficult to find as they're very popular. namaste Jeanie, you sure are connecting some dots... I have something you might be interested in researching, if Sally doesn't already know... I do a lot of genealogy (my family, not professionally)... but I can find no ancestors for Prescott Bush beyond Richard Bush whose date of death is shown as 27 Sep 1732 Rhode Island... no dob, no place of birth. Now my sceptical mind tells me there's a reason that's all I can find... I believe he was born in Germany and I believe his name, or the family name was probably "Busch"... neither my maternal or paternal family is of any renown, just plain folk... but both arrived in this country in early 1700s, from England and Switzerland and I found them. There is no explanation for someone of Dubya's wealth and connected family not being traced further... unless it is 'classified'... happy hunting... namaste Jo Posted by: Jo on April 25, 2004 09:25 PMI just found this quote from a review done of Ruth Montgomery's last book "the world to come." It was published in early December 2000, which means she would probably have finished writing it before the 2000 election craziness. Interesting term - walk-in president! Posted by: Jeanie on April 25, 2004 09:32 PMhttp://hometown.aol.com/wreitwiesn/candidates2000/bush.html Bhakti, I'm SO glad you brought this up. I, too, read a book by or about Jean Dixon about 20-25 years ago. It was a short paperback and the name Ruth Montgomery does ring a bell. Predictions were listed in the last chapter. I know she mentioned the anti-Christ and she may have said he would be born in the ME in the 70s. In fact, I believe she said he was supposed to be alive at the time of the writing. But, I may be mixing that up with the Casey predictions. At any rate, what I'm really EXCITED about is that she specifically predicted that at the end of the 20th C. a too-liberal Democratic president would cause a VERY repressive Republican administration to be voted in and THE PEOPLE would network against them in a manner that had never been seen before. Of course, although she did not know it, she was talking about the internet and, of course, she was right!!!! Therefore, I would like to get a copy of that book and see the other predictions again (some were about earth changes and not so pleasant). I've looked on Amazon but found nothing definitive so it would be great if someone else knows the book's name. Meanwhile, the Women's Rights March on DC is breaking all attendance records!!! Power to THE PEOPLE! Sharon K Jeanie, might 'walk-in' mean 'unelected', not really belonging? I don't know much about her later writings - I know some folks talk about 'walk-ins' as those who possess an existing entity... The word 'nemesis' intrigued me... Agatha Christie used that alot... RM might have said opponent, but she said 'nemesis': "one who inflicts retribution or vengence; a formidable and usually victorious rival or opponent." Jeanie, you're an accomplished researcher! kudos. Right on, Sharon! Posted by: shylurker on April 25, 2004 10:12 PMI AM WOMAN, HEAR ME ROAR! Top story! Reuters By Deborah Zabarenko There was no official crowd count, but organizers claimed more than 1 million people participated. Pink- and purple-shirted protesters raised signs reading "Fight the Radical Right," "Keep Abortion Legal" and "U.S. Out Of My Uterus" and covered the Mall from the foot of Capitol Hill to the base of the Washington Monument. Posted by: Jo on April 25, 2004 10:31 PMJo, my immediate thought is that Bush's nemisis is BinLaden. They seem to be flip sides of the same coin - using overt religious indoctrination as a means to raise money and gain political power, while both use innocents as a means to an end. Jeanie, I wouldn't call what BinLaden did in Afghanistan particularly nice. Women and gilrs were burned alive in schools for trying to be educated. I do think Bush (Busch) are the same though. Busch is trying. Jo, don't go too far. You have a lot to say, and you are appreciated. Posted by: Pat on April 25, 2004 11:13 PMA walk-in is a spirit that takes the place of a Jean Dixon said that the Anti=Christ was born in Readers of "Messages from Michael" and "More Messages from Michael" realize that the county is
http://www.michaelteachings.com/soul_age_index.html Posted by: wv on April 25, 2004 11:23 PMTry this link to a Jeanne Dixon quote, made my hair stand on end. Thanks for answering all of you. Posted by: bhakti on April 25, 2004 11:33 PMJeanie, indeed they do appear to be 'flip' sides of same coin... fundamentalists make up the core base of support for each. Vengence, retribution? nemesis?: http://cfrterrorism.org/causes/saudiarabia.html "Bin Laden, a Saudi himself, broke with the Saudi monarchy over the Gulf War and now avidly seeks its overthrow. In 1990, bin Laden approached the Saudi defense minister and volunteered to mobilize veterans of the 1979-89 Afghan jihad against Soviet occupation to defend Saudi Arabia against Iraq. The Saudi government declined his offer, preferring to rely instead on the U.S.-led coalition assembled by President George H. W. Bush. Ever since, bin Laden has resented the presence of "infidel troops" on the holy land where the Prophet Muhammad founded Islam in the seventh century." Remember, the Gulf War broke out after US had established a base in Saudi Arabia through the efforts of Bush I in 1990. Some believe Sadaam Hussein was lured into invading Kuwait [Jim Baker's message was "the US is not interested in the affairs of Iraq." Kuwait had once been part of Iraq.], thereby giving Bush I excuse to enter Iraq. Bombing of Gulf War began In Baghdad Jan 16, 1991. It seems to some that bin Laden believes Dubya's father is responsible for bringing infidels into the holy land. Something to chew on...
Pat, you're missing my point - I was thinking more of nemesis in terms of global financial and political dominance. Bin Laden indeed wants to go back to Abramic pre-christ times where leaders developed a patriarchal society and women were suppressed. And he is against things that have fostered women's progress. But what we have been taught/indoctrinated about the antichrist and the return of christ is in the context of only Abramic good/evil prophecies and that the christ essence must be either christian, jew, muslim. Pat, I would never go too far away... I love this board... but bhakti has a point... I do need a break from all the bad news etc. This sponge is soaking up too much... time to work in the garden a couple of days, or at least sit on the deck and read! Just a little retreat... but I seem to be like the dinner guest at the door who takes an hour to say good night... last post, promise! Trapper John at Daily Kos went to the March today and he has a first hand report. Thought you might like to take a look at news that is exciting and invigorating. Morgana, Pallas Athene was sure manifesting today, just as you said. You rock gal! Namaste, Blessed Be, Peace Posted by: Jo on April 26, 2004 12:07 AMSpeaking of the Anti-Christ and GWB Here we go... a lil something we've known all along about the porno-puritan. * New assault on porn cld prove embarrassing for some http://smh.com.au/articles/2004/04/23/1082616331692.html?from=storyrhs And good news! * An Unbelievably Sunny Spot in a Gray April Day http://www.dailykos.com/ Posted by: JoannaOregon on April 26, 2004 01:26 AMRight now the Mercury station is holding back events in Fallujah. I would imagine they will attack after Mercury turns on the 1st.If they don't wait, they will have all kinds of backfirings and delays and problems. After the first, we have the Jupiter station square US Uranus, Jupiter turning direct on 5/5, and Jupiter moving again toward the exact conjunction with GWB's Mars. It will be very fierce in May through about the 22nd or so. And maybe for a few days past that because Mars will cross US Sun. Posted by: Nancy on April 26, 2004 01:35 AMhttp://users.legacyfamilytree.com/USPresidents/4008.htm Samuel was the father of Prescott, who was GHWB's father. Herbert Walker (Barbara Bush father) was as involved with supporting the Nazi's as Prescott Posted by: Sally on April 26, 2004 01:41 AMwhoops I forgot, the Ruth Montgomery last book was (I believe) The World to Come. And Jo, I totally agree with you, it all becomes so much and one absolutely must get away and enjoy spring. Posted by: Sally on April 26, 2004 01:55 AMJo, digging in the dirt is the best thing for short circuiting unwanted energy - I refer to it as "grounding out." :) Posted by: Jeanie on April 26, 2004 02:02 AMthis site is pretty interesting - family threads going way, way back:
Hi Sally, Your articles brought two things to mind - junior's progressed MC conjuncting his Uranus - that might be a bad thing and then again it may not be because sadly from our point of view, his natal Uranus is conjunct the North Node. So while he has Pluto conjuncting his South Node revealing all his lies and secrets - suddenly and shockingly- by the opposition to Uranus - I hate to think he will come out of this smelling like a rose to some people ! ( North Node conjunction) What also comes to my mind at this time is that with his pMC conj Uranus, this may be the time that he's ensuring the fix of the voting machines. "GB was born to an elite old money family in the northeast, but he talks and acts like a good ole boy Texas oil man. Wherever did he get that accent and swagger? From his vacations in Maine? From Harvard? He disdains ‘fancy pants intellectualism’ as beneath him, yet he was sent to Harvard, the crème de la crème of exclusive colleges, by his rich father. " Arrogance is a cover up for insecurity and not making the "grade." Paul Bremmer - I looked at his chart when they yanked him out of Wall Street and sent him to Iraq. He's a former Kissinger protege' you know. No surprise that they have named Negroponte so early in the game. He is the perfect person for Iraq. Russia is proof of that. They have been under a dictatorship for so long that they don;t know what to do without someone telling them. They have not been taught how to use freedom. They know they don;t want foreign soldiers occupying their streets, but guaranteed they will understand the cruelty of a Negroponte, similar to that of Saddamm whom many loved and supported. Why even the Bush family supported Saddam. And I agree. The US loss of power, over these actions of this administration, the decline of the I suspect if it is the 1.2 billion Arabs, who believe this is their time in the Sun, that America will be in for a very rough time (you know that Junior's chart Uranus triggers the anger If it is China who will be the next power, which many believe is highly possible,with 1.3 billion Chinese what can America expect? And India is thought to be in this race also. Whoever it will be, America through the machinations of the Bush Cabal is finished as a world power. It is not enough to fear, but one must have respect to be a world power. And that we have lost. Some time ago, I had a flash/vision of the Chinese With Mars retrograding for two years, by progression, in the Gemini rising chart of the USA
Iraq which has now embroiled us in all of the middle east, exactly as Usama planned, is a tar baby. Brer Rabbit and the tar baby. Brer Rabbit is told not to touch the tar baby, but does, and his paw gets stuck, so he uses his other paw to pull out, and that paw gets stuck, and then his foot paw, and then ......yes, you see. We're stuck. I always prefer the Gemini rising chart. Posted by: Pallas18 on April 26, 2004 02:27 AMsorry, I didn't explain completely that I thought * Women Hit the Web Against bush http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/042504dnpolwomenweb.9c469.html Posted by: JoannaOregon on April 26, 2004 03:09 AMStar IQ comparing the coming of Saturn to the Sun Jo wow! A Million women, what an incredible amount of power unleashed. I am awed. They've started something and it's exciting to watch Women standing up to Bush. Posted by: Morgana on April 26, 2004 04:35 AMPallas, I am beyond confused as to the "white wash" constant cover Bush gets. It is just amazing to me. Pluto will keep going back and forth across his South Node and progressed Mid-heaven and Saturn will conjunct his Sun, along with the continuing problems with Iraq I've always felt this aspect could bring a few possible expressions of the energy, 1) a loss of his father, 2)increased problems with Iraq 3) some type of massive earth explosion 4) a contrived terrorist attack with resultant restrictions on the American people. This is not astrology but I am interested in the trend of these governments pulling out of Iraq. At a primative gender level, men prefer games and everything is about rules and winning. Studies show that women, even if competitive, are likely to choose at least one underdog for their team, while men even little boys, will not choose someone they think is a poor player or loser for their team, they will abandon them or try to play around them. My observation is these countries turning against the US, who are supposedly the biggest earth winner of all. In the past, even if they didn't want to go along with the US, money and power talked and the other countries walked to our tune, except in Vietnam. Is the US now being seen as the loser here? Are the male dominated governments acting on their primative instincts and moving away from a world stage loser? As far as Paul Bremer is concerned, he seems to be very angry everytime he opens his mouth. I think he is under a great deal of pressure and is frustrated and having problems with the la la land Washington has become. Posted by: Sally on April 26, 2004 05:22 AMRecently, Bush said this country is hard to defend because it is so large. Recently, Rice said another attack is very probable. My reading: THEY ARE SETTING US UP. Am I wrong, Astrologers? I hope so. Posted by: shylurker on April 26, 2004 06:01 AMThis is totally off topic, but can anyone explain what would a neptune return in aquarius mean for a country? Posted by: Jeanie on April 26, 2004 08:05 AMSally, your comments are right on about the covert govt., and I believe it extends right across the world. As soon as a country steps out of line or tries to govern itself the govt. collapses, either from internal factions or thru'"liberation" in the poor name of democracy.I live in Africa, a continent that has been ravaged and stolen from by everyone. Two questions for the board, Where do you see us heading to, what does your pychic antennae tell you? This covert govt. is no doubt powerful, they have worked long and hard to mantain their position of power and control over the rest of us.But times are changing, one age is ending another is beginning. The energy from Aquarius seems to already be challenging us to "awake from our slumber, arise from our sleep, a new day is dawning for all those who weep". Can we really just leave them to it, and come and learn what we have to, or maybe this time we are actually here to oppose them considering Aquarius (people) is opposite Leo (kings)? Posted by: Azara on April 26, 2004 08:55 AMSally, I was thinking the same thing. Why are they pulling out and what do they know that we don't know, or that we're not being told. I tend to agree with you."Is the US now being seen as the loser here? Are the male dominated governments acting on their primative instincts and moving away from a world stage loser?" Yes I think that is PART OF IT, but only part. Another part is since bushit and company was so pleasant to our former allies, they just may be letting him swing in the wind. They know he doesn't have enough troops, and can't win with what he has. He's practically begging for help now. And so they're going to let him drown in the oil which he'll never be able to move out of there. It's 100,000 American boys and girls surrounded by 1.2 billion Arabs. But I guess Rummycheneybushit didn't think of that or didn't care about it because it's not their children or anyone they know. Just collateral damage. Of course it could also be that he wasn't willing to share any of the spoils with the other countries.....but I think it's all of that and something more. They have all pulled out abruptly. Is there word that Whitewash. Well yes. Neptune. Don;t forget the connections the elder Bush has - not only with the I don;t know that I would call it whitewash Sally as much as a "blackout" of real news. :) Here's a couple of items that I was reading in the UK Independent News that you haven't heard anything about here. It's worth reading the two complete articles. http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=514700 " Sue Niederer said she was refused permission to see the return of her son Seth Dvorin's body as it was flown into the Dover base. Speaking from her home in New Jersey, Mrs Niederer said: "They killed my son and they did not permit me to be there to see the coffin. They said it was for health reasons, and ... they did not want the public to see it and they did not want the newspapers there." She added: "They don't want any of this being shown because it's reality. A coffin strikes home. If you don't see the coffin you just say: 'Oh, there's another one who has died.' But when you show the coffin, you show families, you show people and emotions. This is what they are doing this is what they do not want you to see." AND . Lawyers try to gag FBI worker over 9/11 http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=515270 She wants to tell the world that the administration had very definite warnings weeks before the WTC - but apparently someone in our government doesn't want her to. The one thing that is hopeful, is that there have been a rash of books about what is really going on which came out this month, and in a week or so Wilson's book(husband of the undercover spy they exposed) has his book coming out. This may give the 9 11 commission the guts to write a true report and wake the country up. Did you hear that Bush has given orders no one is to be fired no matter what? He doesn't want anyone else writing books or exposing truths before the election and as long as they're still in the government they can't do any blabbing or writing. But even with all of this, I'm not certain that we'll get rid of this crowd. We're blocked from impeachment unless there's some miracle. If or I should say when there's another attack I don;t think it's his father passing. He just publicly disrespected his father in Woodward's book. "When I want strength I dont turn to my father, I turn to my higher father." Yep. I'd call that a separative aspect. His Daddy is pretty vindictive too. That is further proof that he wouldn't listen to his earthly father, and that he thought his father's advice (given through Scowcroft and others from the Bush 1 administration) showed that his father was a weakling. Pluto is the undercover, the spy. Tenet gave him the wrong information. On purpose? Some of Woodward's book could be taken that way-and now with Pluto on dimwit's south node it could be that the "spies" cause him a loss. That along with your suggestion of Iraq continuing violence,and a massive explosion/earthquake seem to make the most sense to me. Let's just hope it's not man-made, although I do think at least some of it will be. We should be able to see this in the maps as well as where the "explosions" are going to be by plotting the eclipses Somehow we have to get out of this mess. Even if we get rid of this administration, I don't think it's a war that will stop. This is their, OBL's, revolution and America is in their way. Sorry to be negative about this, but it is Vietnam all over again. Our only way out is to pull a Nixon, and declare victory, saying we're pulling out with honor. But that won;t stop it either. It Sorry to be so negative but we put our paws on a big Tarbaby. Posted by: Pallas18 on April 26, 2004 09:02 AMAzara, Anyway, as an American, I'm deeply sorry that we you have to give us your country and it's birthmap before we can say what is in the future astrologically...or perhaps what has been said above is an indication. Is there a chart for the continent of Africa???? I Oh ABC scum! We don't mention Cheney very much.....I guessed him, or Negroponte, as the darkest one! If Bush dropped dead today Cheney would still be there! working behind the scenes with his Vir. asc./ Aqu.sun in the 6th, oppose pluto & chiron in pluto & late cancer, 11th house/ sq. jup. & sat. in the 9th house of foreign affairs. Neptune 27 Vir. OPPOSE moon 22 Pices, & ruled by Merc. in 24 Aqu. 6th house. T pluto conjuncted his 4th house, mars 17 Sag. 4 degrees ago ( what date?) More from Maine, Okay, I have decided I can't stop coming here, not even for a couple of days... I have to vent and this is only outlet... more importantly, I am and have been concerned about the killing in Iraq. So I am going to limit my surfing time, get outside more in the garden... but I care too much about women and children (all of us really) to be quiet while this massacre is going on. Azara, I read your post... welcome to our board. Please know that the atrocities of the American gov't are not done in my name (or those of this board)... but I take responsibility as part of the collective... we are doing what we can to bring about transformation in this collective... namaste... Pat QofP: you could NEVER evolve into Negroponte! secondary progressions, IMHO, reflect the psychological changes your energy undergoes... please correct your thinking about that... you are in control of your energy... your evolution... I have posted about the war crimes exemption... Cheney used Colin Powell to break the kneecaps of the Danish Parliament to get the Resolution thru... scroll above and google up Powell and Denmark, Hague --- they sealed up all previous presidential documents to protect Bush I, I think I commented on that in this thread... we know that this group came into the White House with a pre-planned agenda... check our Marjorie Orr's take on Dubya and also on Dubya's administration. Here's an excerpt from piece on Admin: With Taurus rising and Saturn in the 1st house when George W Bush was inaugurated, this is an administration which likes to look steady, conservative and serious. But three factors belie that disciplined, conventional façade. One is a belligerent Mars in the 7th, opposing the ascendant, reflecting the aggressive mood of the past two years. Mars is unrelenting in Scorpio, stubborn, vengeful and difficult to shift. Squaring as Mars does onto a 10th house Uranus, this is a government with hair trigger responses, a liking for danger, thrills and macho gestures and an equally strong loathing for compromise or having to back down to outside interference. Mars also opposes Saturn, hinting at an inner resentment, a need to demonstarate superiority through aggression, and a liking for military action. Uranus thus sits at the point of the fixed t square describing a self willed administration, which is a law-unto-itself in pursuing independent actions which defy existing authorities or guidelines. Yet the Sun sitting beside vague Neptune on the mid heaven indicates a ship with no real sense of direction - muddle, confusion, indecision and fear of confrontation. Neptune had returned to the exact degree of the inauguration over September 11th bringing the national government into temporary paralysis. "This is the chart of a highly strung administration with less than wonderful judgement which swings from go to stop rapidly. What is intriguing is the Moon Pluto conjunction in the 8th pointing to a good deal of confidential and none too savoury behind-the-scenes dealings where finances are concerned. Power is being manipulated at all times out of sight. Saturn was on the exact opposition to the Pluto on September 11th, again describing a moment when the administration ground to a complete halt. Pluto is on the exact conjunction with the Administration Moon from January 23rd 2003 to late May 2003 over the Iraq Attack, repeating in late November/early December 2003, and again in 2004. Despite triumphalist noises from Washington over Iraq, nothing could disguise the deep divisions between the State Department under Colin Powell and the Pentagon run by Donald Rumsfeld. Pluto brings great bitterness, deep resentment, major secret arguments over money and power. The Columbia Shuttle disaster ocurred on February 1 in the midst of this powerful transit, at the same time as a deadlock in international discussions over war on Iraq. This influence will bring upheaval and disruption at the same time. George W Bush’s chart also shows Pluto opposing Uranus on the same dates as above, which will turn his life upside down. There will be financial implications in events which will force him to re-evaluate his outlook and actions. This is not an administration which should place high hopes of continuing beyond one term, since Neptune is approaching a panicky square to Mars by 2004 and in Bush’s own chart then Saturn is about to slide below the ascendant, starting a low profile seven years, when outer success will be difficult to achieve. If by some oddity of fate it did continue for a second term it would be a catalogue of failures." Nancy, you commented on stalling of attacks: "Right now the Mercury station is holding back events in Fallujah. I would imagine they will attack after Mercury turns on the 1st.If they don't wait, they will have all kinds of backfirings and delays and problems. After the first, we have the Jupiter station square US Uranus, Jupiter turning direct on 5/5, and Jupiter moving again toward the exact conjunction with GWB's Mars. It will be very fierce in May through about the 22nd or so. And maybe for a few days past that because Mars will cross US Sun." I suspect they may have gotten strong word from the Brits NOT to attack... Phony Tony is crawling on his knees to his party, has troubles with his miscommunication this week on EU... the Brit military in Iraq has publicly complained of potential uprising and their inability to survive it... which is one reason Sally I think we are seeing the exodus of some of the 'coalition of the willing' - they are not willing to fight the Iraqis... they thought they would be involved in 'nation-building' and have experienced a year of corruption and deceit... the world sees the US military as taking on the image of Sharon/Likud tactics in Iraq and so do the Iraqis! But Nancy, 'attacks' come in different 'forms' --- There's a piece on BBC website this morning about the 'seige' in Fallujah... this has been reported by alternative news outlets and Arab outlets, but not from the mainstream, until today... Since April 5th, the US has positioned troops around and inside Fallujah... allowing very little movement in or out and that includes food and medical supplies... this collective punishment is a war crime... I said so a dozen times on this thread, and I will continue to say so. The BBC link is important. Please read it to gain some insight into what we are doing to these people, even 'before the carpet bombing' which may or may not come. My point is, Nancy, Pluto/Mars opposition is doing its thing here, even tho' we are not hearing of bombings... there is 'sniping' and small mortar bombing and more. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3653223.stm Picture emerges of Falluja siege Mon 5: 1,200 US troops seal off Falluja ..."Ambulance accusations: British aid worker Jo Wilding said an ambulance she was in, with flashing lights, siren blaring and "ambulance" written on it in English, was hit as it drove to collect a woman in premature labour. More... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3653223.stm I must have some past-life connection with this part of the world... My love of history and the past and my curiousity about how we evolved biologically and migrated, all of that created a special place in my psyche long before GWB entered the WH... I was affected by Desert Storm; but I didn't sleep the entire month of March 2003. What we are doing to mother earth and our own birthplace and to the living wrenches my heart out. There will be big time retribution for this. The world is watching the hole this admin is digging for itself. Bremer is no innocent... he is a Neocon, stressed perhaps, but only because he is restrained from doing what he believes is necessary to 'pacify' the Iraqis... Europe will not enter in to help until Bush is out of the White House. As Pallas 18 remarked, the resistance won't diminish until Dubya is out of the picture. [welcome Pallas 18 - I enjoyed reading your comments... thanks for your insight.] Pat PofQ, I send light to you... someone else chime in here about progressions... Visualize Bush out of the White House. Morgana and I are planting wild flowers all over the lawn, removing the concrete barricades. Power to the people. Blessed be Pallas Athene and the female warrior aspect! Namaste
Thankyou Beverly for bringing Jeffrey Wolf Green to my attention. I found the article, Pluto in Sagittarius online at if anyone is interested. Combine that with peak oil, rising populations, and yep it all makes sense. Plenty of articles on those topics over on Michael C Ruppert's site Of particular interest is his "Beyond Bush" series in two parts. Where to take all of this? I guess in the changing of Ages, just like the changing of seasons, the old doesn't uusally pass gently into the night. I get the feeling we are in a long winter struggling to make the spring. Posted by: Sharon on April 26, 2004 03:07 PMJo, planting wildflowers all over the lawn, huh? Reminds me of that famous photo of the hippy placing a daisy in the barrel of the National Guard guy's rifle. Pretty powerful stuff. Posted by: Barbara on April 26, 2004 08:05 PMHi Jo, before we say our teenage kids over there are shooting up Iraqi ambulanes and believing it... If the reporter could find this, how come the American army is not going in there and getting those uniforms back??? Jo, "Europe will not enter in to help until Bush is out of the White House." I wouldn't count on their entering in to help even when Bush is gone. Since we are on an astrology site we should really do this by astrology charts of Europe and America and the progressions...but you know...although I haven't looked at the charts, I'm not so sure Europe is going to "enter in to help America even when brashbush is gone. He has damaged the bonds and friendship. maybe pushed it to the edge of irreparibility. Europe is joining together almost as states, as the US does - one currency - the euro which is currently worth way more than the dollar, at least 25% more, And when Iraq throws the US out, then and only then the Europeans may just walk in, in a friendly manner and pick up the pieces - for their own profit. The only person I can think of who could repair all the damage and who is universally liked by the leaders around the world is Bubba Clinton If this were 500 years ago, we might call junior And he thought(promised to) by just wearing a jacket and tie at all times in the WH he would look presidential. We have to get a man in the Whitehouse, at some point, who will be willing to prosecute and jail all those who have brought this country to this sorry point. Posted by: Pallas18 on April 26, 2004 08:48 PMFor all of us who have been active against touch screen voteing, it may pay off... Wonder how fast other states can follow suit? snip ~ Yet last week a state panel looking into glitches in electronic voting machines from a Diebold Inc. subsidiary recommended that California not use one of the firm's systems. By Friday, California Secretary of State Kevin Shelley could decide to scrap all electronic voting for now. Posted by: Morgana on April 26, 2004 08:51 PMPallas 18, there was a wonderful old comedy series on BBC shown on our US PBS stations called "Yes, Minister." About bureaucrats in England. When it was on I worked for US gov, and laughed so loud at each episode--run late at night--that I woke the household. Anyhow, in one episode, the Brits or maybe the EU are giving a prize to the individual who has done the most to unify Europe "not counting Hitler, of course." I guess if that show were on today the prize would have to go to Bush-boob. Posted by: Barbara on April 26, 2004 09:04 PMOn the subject prophecy: Has anyone read all 3 Vol. Dolores Cannon's "Conversation with Nostradamus"? She has a section on the internet devoted specifically to BUSH ADMIN. Everyone should read it so you know that this stuff was predicted back in 1989, and is coming to pass right now. your comments would be fun to hear. Bhakti: Thanks for the above link. Love your previous comments too. Jo: Hope you are doing better. Posted by: Beverly on April 26, 2004 09:10 PM Forgot to say--one of the regulars on "Yes, Minister" played King George III in the stage and movie version of "The Madness of King George." Posted by: Barbara on April 26, 2004 09:13 PMPallas 18, Sharon, thanks so much for the link to Jeff Green articles... I spent the morning them... really insightful... Morgana, Namaste
Hey look at this! "Europe will not enter in to help until Bush is out of the White House." Elizabeth, dontcha love coincidences? I just finished reading that article, then returned here to see if there were new posts. My Merc is 9 & Moon 11 of Cancer (both sq Mars--sigh). Dreading the Saturn, too, but hoping it'll hit Smirky & Co. with a vengeance, regardless of what it visits on my existence. Posted by: shylurker on April 26, 2004 09:41 PMShylurker, Namaste, Jo Posted by: Jo on April 26, 2004 09:49 PMSHARON: Thank you for the references above. I am anxious to check them out. I love FTW. I have to read Jeff's writing very slowly, just as he suggests, and re-read them. If you are finished reading his articles, I would absolutely love to talk about Jeff's comments about the closing of an age, the intensification and compression of our collective issues. Especially the rise of the Patriarchy (Male/Masculine dominance). I see that evident all over the world but especially here in U.S. with the installation (a patriarchial thing) of the Bush Regime in the Whitehouse. I am hoping because of this compression and intensification, and quickening that our experience with the Criminal Gang will be short lived. Do you ever think that that is why they are there??? For us to experience one final time the ramifications and repercussions of a male dominated society so we can eliminate it once and for all!!!? That it is a lesson of the Age? A collective lesson? Will we get it? Jeff also says that 75% of earth being have Neptune Sextile Beverly, Jeff Green's article gives affirmation and validation for not only the matriarch but the time for change of mindset in our culture. I don't want anyone to think I am bashing males when I say this, because I am speaking to that mindset that Green speaks of, that sees the male as superior to women and dominate over nature. It has not always been so, and the cycle is turning with Pluto in Sag - the point is, we are seeing the struggle 'against' this change at this time. Not just the dark energy in the WH, but fundamentalism across the world is holding onto the old... thus you see the efforts of the Bush Admin to roll back Roe v. Wade, the thrust of some segments of culture for 'nuclear family' when only 25% of our households meet this criteria. Green's article brings an astrological explanation to the fore for these changes we are experiencing during this transit of Pluto... I intend to re-read it tomorrow... I would love to hear what you think Beverly and others, about 1)the resistance to change that Pluto is insisting on and 3)the direction you think we might be going. Again, we are each male/female, so I don't think it's a matter of dominance by one gender over another so much as honoring of the female aspect, which has been neglected for so long. So, you guys on the Board are part of the experience, the changes... what do you think? Where is Pluto the great transformer, the Power planet taking us (or more correctly, how are we going to use this energy?) Namaste Posted by: Jo on April 26, 2004 10:35 PMMorgana, Shylurker, we be's triplets! Posted by: Jo on April 26, 2004 10:39 PMSKYLURKER: I just read your post and have been wondering the same thing. I heard Condi's comment last week and wondered what she was trying to set-us up for. I posted here on 4/23 "House Ok's Speedy Eletions if Attached". I became very suspicious then and still am. Posted by: Beverly on April 26, 2004 10:54 PMSKYLURKER: I just read your post and have been wondering the same thing. I heard Condi's comment last week and wondered what she was trying to set-us up for. I posted here on 4/23 "House Ok's Speedy Eletions if Attached". I became very suspicious then and still am. Posted by: Beverly on April 26, 2004 10:54 PMSkyluker: I just read comments about Condi's warnings of a possible attach. I too wondered what she was preparing us for. I posted earlier 4/23 and article "House OK's Speedy Elections if Attacked". This is very suspicious to me also. It sounds like Washington is preparing for an attack. Posted by: Beverly on April 26, 2004 10:59 PMThanks, Beverly. Of course, their comments could mean they are no more on top of things than they were Sept 10, 2001. Glad to know my concern is shared. what a pleasure to be here! thanks to all. Posted by: Pallas18 on April 27, 2004 12:20 AMWant to see Pallas Athene's radiance yesterday? Three beautiful photos http://www.truthout.org Posted by: Jo on April 27, 2004 12:58 AMJeannie, In the interest of getting history correct, George III's "madness" was actually caused by porphyria, a digestive disease usually inherited by one or both parents. It can be brought on by a number of things, including high stress situations. And the wild mood swings you find with this disease can be accompanied by painful swelling and itching of the skin, vomiting, cramping, paralysis, severe constipation and sensitivity to sunlight. So, George III's condition isn't as simple as him being crazy or mad or whatever. He was actually suffering from a serious malady which wasn't understood at that time. And which was treated with the most barbaric methods imaginable (because they thought he was crazy!). If only Dubya had some excuse for his behaviour, other than stupidity, avarice, impatience and immaturity. Just thought the George III info might be of interest. Jonathan Posted by: Jonathan on April 27, 2004 01:15 AMHoward Zinn sums up my feelings exactly about Kerry climbing aboard a sinking ship: If Condi's statement does suggest they are preparing for an attack here, how, I wonder, would Kerry respond to such an attack? Posted by: Timothy on April 27, 2004 01:23 AMBeverly and Jo, Thanks for the reminder about Jeff Green’s excellent book. It gives a lot of perspective. I see Pluto as being about renovation, not just minor remodeling. It’s the difference between redoing one room of a house or tearing the house down to the ground and rebuilding it completely new from scratch. Pluto isn’t always pleasant while in the midst of a transit. One of Pluto’s symbols is the phoenix rising from the ashes. I think of the planetary energies as within and without us and not only as planets out there somewhere. It’s a whole different perspective. It’s not Pluto taking us somewhere, but us being participants in where we are going. So what’s going on? If Pluto is about renovation, and Sag. is about religious beliefs, philosophies, foreign countries, spiritual values, then what is Pluto saying as it sits on the ascendant of the United States? That our whole identity, our sense of who we are as a people is being transformed. How do we view ourselves, and others (the world), how do we use our power as a people, individually, and as a nation. Are we motivated by the love of power or the power of love? Pluto is primal power. According to astrologer Isabel Hickey, Pluto’s higher expression is Wisdom. It’s time to clean out our shadow side, all our beliefs, our attitudes, go really d-e-e-p inside and clean out the gunk (like Hercules cleaning out the Aegean Stables). It takes great courage to look inside instead of saying “Who, me? I don’t have any cleaning to do. It’s them.” And Saturn’s here teaching us to be self-responsible. We now have Saturn in Cancer right on the U.S. Sun and our president has Sun is Cancer with Saturn on his Sun. Chance or part of the cosmic drama? And we’re dealing with issues of safety and security in our homeland. As we work on and transform our own issues, beliefs and attitudes internally, we are doing it for the whole. Then they are not projected outward and the external events may not be needed because we’ve changed them. A critical mass is reached (like the 100th monkey concept) and change occurs. We don’t know what the outcomes are yet. Things are still in process. When we buy into a prophecy, we’re saying, O,K. - no possibility of changing anything. That’s the way it is. It’s so important to remind each other not to buy into fear, otherwise it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. But consciousness is always moving, always changing moment to moment. It’s physics. It’s energy. And the blessing is in the awareness. RE energy, thought, prayer and physics, I found an interesting site about the lost mode of prayer – keep reading until you get down to the info about President Clinton, 1998 and Iraq. http://www.greggbraden.net/attack.php3#clarification Also if you can, get the book, Power vs. Force by David R. Hawkins, M.D., PH.D., (recommended by Dr. Wayne W. Dyer.) The book talks about fields of consciousness and maps levels of consciousness – from emotions, to belief systems, to politics, to documents – like the Declaration of Independence to great teachers like Jesus and Buddha. Fascinating reading once you get past the first couple of chapters of technical stuff. Posted by: jaycee on April 27, 2004 01:34 AMApologies to all, for this is way off topic. jaycee, I so admired you post, I reposted it on Salon and of course credited it to this site. I also sent the link to all the people I know who would not otherwise come here and see it for themselves. Wonderful post!! Posted by: Pat on April 27, 2004 02:06 AMJaycee, I posted some time back about Gregg Braden, thanks for bringing it up again. I listened to his "speaking the lost language of god" a few months back and experienced a definite "ah-ha" moment. His material is awesome. Timothy, "If Condi's statement does suggest they are preparing for an attack here, how, I wonder, would Kerry respond to such an attack?" I got the impression her statement was 'warning' of the possibility of an attack... she mentioned several upcoming events of large crowds, that might attract an attack... there were no comments about preparation... simultaneously with her comments Dubya responded to a query that this country is simply too big to defend... the border along Mexico, can't keep illegals out etc. ..."how, I wonder would Kerry respond to an attack?" Timothy, do you mean after he is elected? or, before? John Kerry has an issue statement on security of our country at his website which lays out his plan of how: http://johnkerry.com/issues/homeland/ and before he is elected? I would imagine just as the rest of us. At any rate, as President I believe his war records illustrate his courage under fire... and I for one don't think he would wait in a classroom until time for a previously scheduled speech, then hop on Air Force One, fly around the sky and finally land in Nebraska to scamper down a rabbit hole. tPluto is revealing, uncovering the secrets of this administration and hopefully the failures leading up to 9-11. Namaste ------------- Jaycee!
Rense.com has the epilepsy/stroke stuff now. Posted by: shylurker on April 27, 2004 04:30 AMhttp://www.deceptiondollar.com/DDHome.htm Posted by: Pat on April 27, 2004 05:12 AMWow. So the pretzel attack and subsequent black speaks in a different language? speaking in tongues - confusion? is that coming out of a trance. my my. what an interesting day, as Mercury makes it station and prepares to move forward again! BTW - did anyone else hear Howard Fineman say on My my. How times they are a'changin'. the pictures of the "women" crowded from Washington monument to monument is breathtaking. What power. Posted by: Pallas18 on April 27, 2004 05:28 AMJean, I don't quite buy it. Could be planted info to get the speaking in tongues thing idea to the holy rollers so they fall all over him like he's the returned messiah, and to give an excuse for his nonsensical fuzzyspeak, with a little sympathy vote for good measure? Posted by: Jeanie on April 27, 2004 05:59 AMBeverly, I find it amazing that her book was released around 12 years ago when Dubya's father was President and before he had declared war on Saddam. As I see it now. . .she made some very chilling predictions that are now reality and some very sobering ones for the future. Delores Cannon Predicted: She also Predicted: The next man (after the sex scandal Pres) that ascends to the most powerful position in the world (The US Presidency) gets there only because of nepotism and family connections and is basically inept. She predicts that this good man, despite being very accomplished and competent and sincere in trying to create long-term peace for our country and the world, finds that he is virtually powerless to do so because of the foolishness of his predecessor and his policies that have severely destabilized the Middle East. WOW, I need to check that book out! Thanks Maidu Posted by: Jeanie on April 27, 2004 06:19 AMWow. I've never heard anyone say that Nostrodamus' quatrains say anything like that. If she's a psychic she's a damn good one. Her last predicitons very unfortunately sound accurate. It will be very hard to undo all the damage dimson has done, both to this country and "coming holocaust" - those are pretty terrible words. And " There would be a Constitutional Crisis with armed troops being called out at that time." That wouldn't surprise me at all. Posted by: Pallas18 on April 27, 2004 06:43 AMPat and Jo, Thanks for your kind words. Jo, Some thoughts about Pluto in Sag and the collective- I saw a picture of one of the terrorists on the news tonight and again asked myself Why? Where is all this hatred coming from? I know there are probably many reasons, but as I thought about it, what came to mind was: Here we are in the 21st century and their thinking is back in the 7th century. It's like a time warp. Maybe the battle being fought now is one that wasn't resolved then. Perhaps there has been an accumulation of negative energy that has been repressed and stuck for centuries, and all that negativity has been absorbed into the earth and now needs to be purged and transformed. Look at the areas of the world where this is occurring - in areas that are the cradle of civilization and the foundations of Jewish, Christian and Islamic religions.(Sag. rules relious beliefs.) Maybe we can't move forward until we clean up what has been. Just like we have to do it individually, we have to do it as a collective. Jeff Greene talks about evolutionary impulses and our reactions to them. 1. To resist He also says that one of the ways Pluto affects evolution in our lives is by producing an emotional shock. 9/11 was certainly a collective shock. Unfortunately, sometimes we need a jolt to force us to move, if we haven't been able to do it on our own. Uranus is now in Pisces, giving us the opportunity to Wake Up and move out of the herd mentality, into a new level of awareness. The sign Pisces represents the collective, also spirituality. So the next seven years can be a time of tremendous spiritual awakening. Or, it can be a time of confusion, addiction, delusion, illusion. Our choice. Our choices will determine our future. Each one of us affects the whole. We're all part of creating the movie. I'd prefer a musical comedy to all this drama stuff! Anybody want to join me in a song! I do believe that those of us here on the planet chose to be here at this time. Maybe we all raised our hands to volunteer and said, "I'll do it. I'll help." Posted by: jaycee on April 27, 2004 08:06 AMWhat if this whole talk of firey apocalyptic vision were nonsense in the sense that we have the ability to create our own reality - as Gregg Braden puts it "Statistics have shown that a specific number of people, joined in a focused, unified consciousness of non-denominational mass prayer, produce effects that extend well beyond the room or building where the prayer has occurred." The only apocalypse that anyone is familiar with is the hell-fire-and-damnation revelation of john that was chosen to be included in the biblical canon mid 4th century. But what about the other "apocalypse" texts from nag hammadi discovered in the 70's and only recently translated? From Adam (yes thats right, the original genesis guy), James, Paul, and Peter? They seem to talk more about the truth of what happens to their spirit when they, as individuals, die. Jaycee, we were writing at the same time. I absolutely hear what you are saying. I felt at the beginning of the iraq war that somehow this may have something to do with symbolically going back to area of Abraham's birth and in some way cleansing the energies of "sibling rivalries" before we can move into the next phase of human evolution. Posted by: Jeanie on April 27, 2004 09:09 AMTotally off topic. Help. In an earlier article Jo (?) and another poster mentioned a "mirror technique" to deal with enemies. Could someone please explain the mirror technique to me again or help me find the article. Thanks so much. Posted by: Janet on April 27, 2004 02:06 PMWell it's morning... occupiers have destroyed a Minaret... so much for Kimmet's claim to go into Najaf and be respectful! Is there such a disconnect they think mosques in Fallujah are targets? No, there's no disconnect... it's totally on target, just like shooting holes through Korans... Total a new flag was revealed for Iraqis (what's wrong with the old one?) 'course it looks like the Israeli flag? Coincidence you say? If you think so, you probably own swamp land in Florida too... No, this invasion of Iraq was for Israel... time to talk about that elephant in the room... anybody who thinks the campaign for a "Greater Israel" is a conspiracy needs to do more homework. here's link to see flag: http://www.antiwar.com/blog/index.php?id=P825 while you're there... check out antiwar.com's website... it's a good one... Just remember, the Neocons told us they want unrest, chaos in the Middle East (see Nancy's article for their writings... Two Elephants and google up Neocons if you don't know much about them...) This 'mess' in Iraq is like so much oil boiling in a pot ('scuse the metaphor)... sooner or later it will spill over... Nancy's comments in this thread just above speak to that... William Rivers Pitt at Truthout speaks to that: ..."The cease fire has failed, and American forces are at this moment surrounding Falluja and Najaf with the intention of invading these cities and routing the 'insurgents.' A showdown is coming, and nothing good will be made of it. U.S. military planners have spent many years now studying about and training soldiers for the realities of urban combat. The city of Falluja should be the first chapter in the urban combat strategy binder titled "Worst Terrain Imaginable." The city has nearly 300,000 residents and is made up of a dizzying maze of narrow streets, wide boulevards and back alleys. Most of the apartments have porches that will serve Iraqi snipers and RPG-toting helicopter hunters well. Every neighborhood has a mosque, a school, markets and clinics which, if struck by an errant American bomb, will deliver horrible numbers of civilian casualties." Let's return to discussion of Jeff Green and his treatise on tPluto in Sag: "..."as we move into the Aquarius Age it obviously means that the Pisces Age is now beginning to culminate. Anytime an Age comes to culmination the opportunity, and evolutionary intention, is for the cycle of history relative to that Age to stop repeating itself. In order for this to occur all the dynamics that are part of that Age comes to a head within a relatively brief amount of time. This phenomena thus creates a period of time in which the psychological experience of reality becomes one of condensed intensity: individually and collectively. ... From the point of view of past lifetimes and evolution it is remarkable that almost all people on the planet today have their South Nodes of the planets Jupiter, Saturn, and Pluto in Capricorn, with, of course, their North Nodes in Cancer. And that almost all of us have the South Node of Neptune in Aquarius and the North Node in Leo, and the South Node of Uranus in Sagittarius, with its North Node in Gemini. What does this mean ? It means that almost all the people on the planet today have had past lifetimes exactly when the original matriarchy was in place, South Node of Neptune in Aquarius, and lifetimes when the transition between the matriarchy and patriarchy began and picked up momentum: the South Nodes of Saturn, Jupiter, and Pluto ( the collective and individual Soul structure )in Capricorn. With the South Node of Uranus in Sagittarius for most of us this means that most of us have lived at least a few lives within tribes, cultures, or societies that were defined by natural laws. And, now, here we all are at a very precarious time in the history of Earth itself when, in effect, we have a galactic return twenty five thousand years later to the original matriarchal point !" Jaycee, you commented last night that "I do believe that those of us here on the planet chose to be here at this time. Maybe we all raised our hands to volunteer and said, "I'll do it. I'll help." I believe whole-heartedly in what you are saying. We are looking at tremendous instability that will result in huge changes... none of which can actually be predicted because we make our individual choices that affect the collective, not simply the collective of America, but the entire collective, the whole. A little song today wouldn't hurt a thing, would it Jaycee... Nancy says we're headed for tough times next days and weeks and unfortunately she's right most of the time. Light to all...
I see a long steady stream of patriarchal, dreadfully childish old wargeezers that have been allowed to get their way via VIOLENCE for 4500 yrs. I see nothing GRAND or NUMINOUS about it, or having to do with "human development" (in fact, they've been doing everything they can to PREVENT human development), or having to do with "strange signs & portents." I think that when one of them shows up, it ought to be thrown into a prison psych unit where related others, such as Charles Manson & Jeffrey Daumer, can keep them company. Oh, & NEVER EVER let them out. Posted by: JoannaOregon on April 27, 2004 03:24 PMBush & Cheney are to appear before the 9/11 commission at 9:30 AM on Thursday. Maybe he'll talk in tongues in front of the Commission? And Cheney will interpret! Posted by: Morgana on April 27, 2004 03:41 PMROFL! Oh I need to laugh! Thanks Morgana. Posted by: Pat on April 27, 2004 04:07 PMJoanna, The 'people' in Iraq are fighting against the occupiers... the Neocons don't have sufficient boots on the ground to maintain security and their aggressive treatment of the populace since the invasion has manifested the strong resistance. The British military in Basra told Blair that if the populace rises up, that is if Sistani gives the word to support Sadr, they (the Brits) will be overrun... our troops will be sitting ducks, with no way out... air strikes will kill troops as well as civilians and so-called insurgents (who are impossible to identify as both extremists and innocents are angry and resisting)... The Neocons may get the oil they want, all the way to Russia... but the price in human carnage will be more than I want to imagine. Morgana, don't you wish we could see the proceedings tomorrow? I would simply love to be a fly on the wall. Buzz, Buzz... there would be Dubya, 'swatting at flies' again! Posted by: Jo on April 27, 2004 04:09 PMWill the text be public? Posted by: Pat on April 27, 2004 04:12 PMRobert McNamara and Helen Caldicott | Still on Catastrophe's Edge Pat, Pat, have you been to Salon this a.m.? Big news there: first Joe Conanson puts Karen Hughes on the ropes re Kerry and Dubya's war records... but the cork blower is Unger with more news on 'House of Bush, House of Saud' and the name of the man who was redacted from Dubya's guard records (more of Ms. Hughes' handiwork - she needs to go home and take care of the children) James Bath, who we discover was buddy-buddy with Salem bin Laden, brother to -- you guessed it --- OBL... seems ol' Jim introduced him to first Bush I and then to his drinking buddy Dubya... Ya'll go get your day passes... this is a must read... Namaste Posted by: Jo on April 27, 2004 04:40 PMJo, yes! Bath is also up to his ears in the all the Funeralgate happenings that still haunt the shrub to this day. If only the rest of the media were like Salon! We might actually have a democracy here!! The wingnuts tried to bring Salon down about three years ago and almost succeeded. That's why they went to subscription. Even though I had never considered subcription on the internet, I have always been happy I supported Salon. Posted by: Pat on April 27, 2004 04:52 PMHas anyone done any analyses of Antonin Scalia recently? This guy is enabling the current dictatorship. Is he going to remain as powerful and untouchable as he has the last 3+ years? Posted by: Susan on April 27, 2004 04:52 PMI hope this works..... Posted by: wv on April 27, 2004 04:55 PMSorry, I misspoke in post above... Unger does not say Bath introduced Salem to Bush I or Dubya... he says Bath 'denied' setting up a meeting to bring either of them together... The fact is, GHWB IS friendly with the House of Saud and OBL's family... Bath would of course deny the introductions, as he denies everything else, and tops it off by saying if he had been involved in CIA work, etc., he would deny it if asked... read for yourself... I apologize for misquoting the article... Posted by: Jo on April 27, 2004 04:57 PMThis is totally off subject, but has anyone else noticed how much Karen Hughes in her pearls and old lady suits is beginning to look like Barbara "Beautiful Mind" Bush? Funny, but I don't recall Hughes looking so matronly before her Texas sabbatical. Posted by: Susan on April 27, 2004 05:04 PMShe's just trying to make Dubya more comfortable... Mama's boy does need protection... and only a strong woman can do that adequately... right? She and Rove have a lot of friction between them, so on one level we can be thankful she's back... it's a sign that Dubya is frail and Rove is frustrated! GO KERRY, GO KERRY... don't see any women running to the camera for him, now do you...? Peace Posted by: Jo on April 27, 2004 05:19 PMJo, I don't think the image that's being cultivated is for shrub's benefit. I think this is yet another attempt by the disadministration to channel the image of the 'beloved' Babs for public consumption. (BTW, I've never bought the image of her as a lovable matriarch. There's something way too calculating with that severe white hair and stiff pearl dog collar to be real.) Posted by: Susan on April 27, 2004 05:39 PMHello, all. FYI ~ apparently an increase of trollism is running around the web. *** troll 1) As a verb, the practice of trying to lure other Internet users into sending responses to carefully-designed incorrect statements or similar "bait." In a real example, a Usenet newsgroup contributor mentions the discovery of an ancient African carving containing a list of prime numbers. The contributor further lists some of the prime numbers found and includes some numbers that, in fact, are not prime numbers. Other contributors then send serious replies, correcting the list of prime numbers cited. The originator of the troll then announces that so-and-so has been "hooked." Alternatively, someone might post something here saying they just don't think Kerry can pull off a win by November or suggesting we debate the merits of Ralph Nader. Just be aware that sometimes people post just to throw a wrench in the works and railroad the thread. FYI ~ ~Dommael Didn't mean to disrupt the flow of thought myself, just looking out for my favorite astrological website. Namaste~ ~D Posted by: Dommael on April 27, 2004 06:05 PMtMars is working my energy... click here for individual photos of those who marched Sunday along with captions http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=49063 link curtesy of Daily Kos! Posted by: Jo on April 27, 2004 06:39 PMThis is just stunning. Here is the new flag design for Iraq. How awesomely foolish can they be. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A43438-2004Apr26.html Posted by: Pat on April 27, 2004 06:50 PMWonderful photos! I'm so proud of actual Americans. We MUST come together. Posted by: Pat on April 27, 2004 06:57 PMFormer british diplomats (by my count 52) have sent an open letter to Blair publicly condemning actions by him & US admin. http://argument.independent.co.uk/commentators/story.jsp?story=515676 Posted by: Jeanie on April 27, 2004 07:12 PMJeanie, isn't the letter wonderful news... British pols are giving him the word... separate from Bush or step down... Astrologically, Marjorie Orr says: "Blair will slip, slide, slither and panic ... Notice he didn't pick up his "Congressional Medal of Honor" when he was here... he walked with Bush in the Rose Garden and rushed home... About the Blair Gov't Orr says: ..."Into 2004 Pluto starts to square Saturn from late February staying till late 2005, which will put Blair as PM under extreme pressure. Uranus trines Neptune from April 2004 onwards for a year which will make for a highly strung, distrustful relationship. Into 2005 Pluto trines Uranus altering the relationship between Blair and the UK population totally." He prematurely moved spring elections up to October. Maybe that's the "October Surprise" ? Over at DU they are saying there was a strike in Damascus. Apparently on Embassy Row--Iran & Canadian embassies??? Posted by: shylurker on April 27, 2004 07:43 PMMAIDU: I am very sorry, but I don't know how to respond to your post to me regarding the Dolores Cannon books. What I read there is not at all similar to what you are posting here. I am sorry. The strike on Fallujah is being shown on CNN right now. I think it started at about 10:30pm Iraq time. There were calls to prayers all during the bombing...very eerie. Posted by: Pat on April 27, 2004 07:58 PMShylurker, Juan Cole had report this a.m. on Fallujah --- air strikes Light to all Posted by: Jo on April 27, 2004 08:04 PMhttp://www.nytimes.com/aponline/international/AP-Iraq.html Posted by: Pat on April 27, 2004 08:04 PMHey Jo, you're supposed to be digging in your garden, or did you ground out already! LOL. what are you growing pray tell? Posted by: Jeanie on April 27, 2004 08:10 PMfor all those, so nostalgic about howard dean, Could you expand a bit on that, please, Raj? What did she ask? Why did he leave? Posted by: shylurker on April 27, 2004 08:15 PMif anyone knows brit politics i would love to really see a prediction on if blair will get in again and if not will it be the new liberal democrats or tory...if anyone has a link that explains this astrologically, please share! maidu -- that's it exactly, now where do we find this book????? screw nostradamus, this woman is right on..sadly sadly..y'know i'm a christian and do believe in prophecy and revelation ... myself, and even sally in one of her articles, suspected that we were becoming the 'whore of babylon' with georgie (before the war!)..and while i look forward to christ coming back and making a perfect earth for the good eggs to live in peace : - ), we all have our materialistic sides and like to cling on to our beliefs that our own personal/ego driven goals are at the least, 'exciting,' and rewarding, and don't really appreciate king george pushing the fast forward button!!!! especially since the bible says to "come out of her, so that you don't share in her plagues" about the fallen harlot (usa)...y'know it's a total pain in the ass to move overseas, i've done it a few times! sigh... but it is good to know bush will not get in to the president's seat...we know this astrologically as well -- and it's time WE ALL STOP FRETTING HERE. but yes, he's fulfilled prophesy, the Lord's prophesy, as he TRULY BELIEVES..too bad God cast him on the side of the devil..oh well georgie, that's how it crumbles, cookie wise. Posted by: Roxanne on April 27, 2004 08:18 PMCall me suspicious, but these US idiots in charge are have been itching for months to find an excuse for military action in Syria also. Near the canadian and iranian embassies? Does not make sense. What are the odds of mossad and cia coverts conveniently stirring trouble I wonder? Posted by: Jeanie on April 27, 2004 08:20 PM~Dommael... I do hope you don't consider my attempts to discuss Kerry and Nader examples of "trolling." Be assured that my posts are sincere attempts to contribute to the thread. I don't understand how debating the merits of Nader, or discussing frustration with Kerry, would be railroading a thread. These issues seem directly related to the thread and even the prime subject of some threads. For the record, I will vote for Kerry, if he is indeed the Dem choice in November, but I will continue to speak to the virtues of Nader's positions relative to Kerry's on a number of important issues. I might be wrong, but I suspect from reading these threads for awhile now that most of the participants here would probably agree with the positions Nader takes rather than Kerry's forays to the right, most especially in regards to this war, and the war making machine. ~Jo... perhaps I misunderstood, I thought the discussion above about Condi's comments concerned the possibility that the administration was preparing for an attack here before the election, soon even. . . . I suspect Bush and the neocons would try to use this, just as they did 911, in manipulating the American people to so blindly support their imperialistic ambitions. It could be something so terrible that the rage and lust for vengeance accross America would no longer know bounds, loosening the full force of American power. What would Kerry do, or rather, what position would he take? I meant now, if it happened soon, before the election? Would that really even make a difference? Would candidate Kerry respond any differently from President Kerry? Of course, as President, he would have the power behind his words, but would his words be any different? I don't know, but it seems like an important question. As it stands now he is in favor of staying the course in Iraq, and even sending more troops. He would, of course, try to turn it over, at least nominally, to the UN, but would that even be possible? Are American troops to be withdrawn and replaced by a UN force? Will President Kerry do anything different regarding the war in Iraq than Candidate Kerry is saying now? Will we still have American troops engaged in a military occupation of Iraq? Does Kerry even recognize that the invasion and occupation of Iraq is an ongoing war crime? But if America were to be attacked again, what would Kerry do? I know that whatever position he takes it can't be as bad as Bush's but will it be good enough? If we were attacked now before the election, would Kerry be forced to support Bush in unleashing the full arsenal? Does Kerry even reocognize that the whole "war on terrorism" is really a "war of terrorism"?
Recorded history is indeed shaped by the agressors/victors. A very sad comment from Juan Cole: Note that US conservatives like Charles Krauthammer attempted to maintain last summer that the looting and loss of Iraqi history had been exaggerated. I hear you, Timothy. Fear is a big ingredient in their attraction to lots of folks. Over 50% still think Saddam had tight ties with al-Quaeda. You'd think it would be apparent now to many that prior to 9-11, too many at the top levels of our government were asleep at the wheel. Some of us recognize that; many don't. So, those same many will go and vote for Smirky&Co because they are scared--rather than being angry that they weren't protected earlier and, from the quotes, that their need to be protected now is not generating sufficient action, security measures, port inspections, etc. Posted by: shylurker on April 27, 2004 08:34 PMDear Jeanie Unless, maybe some private citizen and/or former officials Iraqis have copies of their constitutional history. Let us hope so. Posted by: Barbara on April 27, 2004 08:42 PMJo: Thank you for your ideas and questions from yesterday. YES, Jeff Green does glorify the matriarch and to me it is understandable given his description of it. To everyone, please understand the I wish to discuss this from an astrological, archetype perspective, not any personal, individual gender. We carry both archetypes within us. Jo, you asked some very hard questions. Questions that I was hoping our experienced astrologers here could enlighten us on. Re: 1) Resistance - I think it comes from that 70% of people who live in the Consensus State(Saturnian-conformity) weather they be fundamentalist, White House, politicians, or just ordinary people. They can't stand back and detach from the time & place in which they live because of the deep-seated need to conform (Saturn) to the existing phenomenal reality. The only way this state can be overcome is through individual and collective shocks/crisis as Green describes. I don't think people change unless they are forced to by circumstancial necessity. Let's hope these shocks are already underway and penetrating the collective consciousness now, eventhough we may not be aware of it or able to see the results. 2)I really don't have much to say on the direction we are going in (because I don't know)except that we do need to find more balance with Nature and natural law otherwise I do believe that that is where our biggest crisis will be coming from. Just this morning I heard poll results regarding "top issues" 20% or less for these three issues: Gay rights, women's rights,and the Environment. Areas of more importance, of course, are Jobs, healtcare, education but it seems to me the Environment would call for more than 20% interest. If we don't start paying more attention to the balance of our eco systems, none of the major issues will even matter as everything is innerconnected and interrelated. I think there is enough interest on the site about "Where the People Are" that maybe our fine astrologers here will do an article on just that subject in the near future. Is this possible ladies? I have never seen an astrological ysis of just the people, anywhere. Have any of you? Let me know. Thanks for this fantastic site!! Posted by: Beverly on April 27, 2004 08:44 PM~But, of course, the choice is already now and always has been. ~Kerry definitely represents a significant step in the direction toward compassion, peace, and cooperation, but the positions taken by both Nader and Kucinich are several steps ahead. Posted by: Timothy on April 27, 2004 08:48 PMMy post regarding the trolls was merely an FYI ~ although I do worry that the tolerant atmosphere at astroworld could be abused, the more I listen the less I worry. Please, let's move on. Jo, those pics were great! Who knew that "Republicans for Choice" and "Pro-Choice Christians and Catholics" existed? I especially liked the caption about the church group singing "we are a gentle, angry people" then marching into the thick of the demonstration. Inspiring! Namaste~ ~D Posted by: Dommael on April 27, 2004 09:07 PMIf ya'll haven't seen this cartoon ~ it's priceless! This Modern World : a terrifying election This link is from the kansascitychannel.com. Please note the next to the last paragraph. http://www.thekansascitychannel.com/news/3242131/detail.html Posted by: Teresa on April 27, 2004 10:08 PMJeanie, Beverly, Every action that shadow gov't in the White House takes is 'revolting' --- wonder when the people are going to be 'revolted' enough? Namaste Posted by: Jo on April 27, 2004 10:38 PMThe latest on Sibel Edmonds - FBI informant for 9/11 commission. Justice Dept. trying to gag her from testifying. Sally, just wanted to let you know we finally heard fromn my nephew. He is safe (for the moment at least) in Guam. Posted by: Teresa on April 27, 2004 11:16 PMNeptune, planet of deceit, fantasy, and OIL, appears in the 10th house of the Bush Admin... at click here for excellent analysis of Cheney's energy strategy he's trying to keep secret. article is long but informative... http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/FD27Dj02.html Last year as the troops pulled into Iraq, one young Arab boy is reported to have asked a G.I. driving a tank "why are you here? do you come for our oil?" 'course not, the press reported, the Admin disclaimed... LIARS, LIARS, all --- oil and Euros and deceit... you're right Joanna... they should rot in prison... all of them... Janet, you asked about the "mirror" technique. In essence, it's very similar to the "ball of light" technique, in that you imagine all evil coming at you from any source as being bounced back to that source through a mirror. In the "ball of light" you surround yourself with light that repels all destructive or debilitating energy. It's kind of a psychic kung fu, using the energy being put out by your enemy to strike at him, without using any destructive energy yourself. Just bounce those bad vibes back at 'em! I've found this very effective; we used to have two very negative people in our office, and using the "ball of light" they both left within a year - without anyone having to actually call thyem on their behanvior. It makes the destructive person waste a lot of energy that just funnels back to them while you stay clean and happy in your own protective aura. if you find you're having to deal with difficult people, or that the evil that's being wrought by the current power structure, just surround yourself with light or mirror the evil back without letting it touch you. While I post infrequently, I read this site daily and am so grateful for the positivity that it generates. Light and love to you all! Posted by: Baraka on April 28, 2004 12:30 AMregarding all the fuss about Delores Cannon's interpretations of Nostradamus, let me make one very important point. if this is all true, what's the point of doing anything, including making the predictions. if our future is all planned out for us and there is nothing we can do to change it, we might as well just get what we can, including a ring side seat, and watch the collapse. this type of thinking is very similar, ironically, to scientific reductionism; the notion that all things can be understood by looking at smaller and smaller units of the physical world. scientific reductionists are also strong believers in the 'folly of free will.' the fact that we have this dialogue, change our minds, grow, etc. on a micro level proves the possibility of change on a macro level. if you want a metaphysical rationale, how about this. the Mayan 'long count' calander rund out in 2011 or 2012. ask a Mayan if that means the world ends. of course not, it's an opportunity to renew and begin again. believing in the anti-Christ buy's you the whole nine yards of believing that the bible is revealed truth. i'll take my chances on free will!!! Posted by: mike on April 28, 2004 12:43 AMAmen Mike A prediction is only valid the moment it is made. Posted by: wv on April 28, 2004 12:58 AMso what's this all about this dolores cannon..beverly says she doesn't say that at all...where does one find out? mike it is about free will still..of course the bible is revealed truth..as in -if you kill your neighbor it's not a good thing and you 'pay'..and also it's going to lead to trouble to want your neighbor's wife..haven't we all learned these things are 'true' just from living??..to pass the bible off as rubbish means you haven't read it, or haven't 'lived' or are in denial about man's basic self-destructive nature..or are so perhaps sub-consciously 'mad at god' that you'll only take the same exact message as the dalai lama who annoys the hit out of me in particular....one must learn what they are rebelling against before they rebel..i use to do the same thing..but anyway..we're all born with our weaknesses and if we give in to what is negative and destructive it leads us farther away from the wisdom of seeing how to get back to the garden so to speak..that is the jist of the bible for all that are just busy rebelling on what 'society' tells us the bible is.. Sally, Further to our discussion of Bush & his father,I was reading the myth of the newly discovered planet Sedna and thought it might be a clue to what is going on : "Some speculate that within the discovery of this planetoid Sedna lies a message for the world to acknowledge. As with many myths, this one has several different versions. In certain versions of the myth, Sedna lies at the bottom of the ocean, one of the most feared and vengeful spirits and deities of the [b]arctic[/b] world. It is said that all of the sins against nature collect on Sedna's body and render her sad and mournful. The common thread that runs throughout the many versions of the myth of Sedna is hmmm. I find that very interesting in light of the fact that Bush is publicly insulting his father and his father had tried to stop Bush's actions at the UN and Iraq. Well. I guess we'll see. Posted by: Pallas18 on April 28, 2004 02:37 AMRoxanne asks me: and i never met a mayan, have you? Indeed I have, quite a few. I havn't met the Mayan below but he is quite an authority: Messages from the Mayan Milieu ©- Copyright 2002 by Steven McFadden ------------------ Without literalism, you have man/woman made stories which have embedded within them some beautiful spiritualism: the Gospel of Q, the Nag Hammadi Gospels (Thomas specifically). There is no predestination that allows freedom and without freedom, we are nothing more than exquisite robots!
It was the year when they finally immanentized the Eschaton. ~D Posted by: Dommael on April 28, 2004 02:55 AMOkay, I realize tPluto is creating havoc in the collective and tMars is energizing my chart and apparently lots of folks from the numbers of posts in the last 24 hrs. Each of us has opinions and beliefs and I would hope we could focus on issues and events and astrology, and resist hurling denigrating slings and labels at a poster. Mike, I read your post three times. I could find only one reference to the bible: "believing in the anti-Christ buy's you the whole nine yards of believing that the bible is revealed truth. i'll take my chances on free will!!!" That is Mike's opinion. "Reveal(ed) is defined by Webster: "to make known through divine inspiration" Mike's comment in no way 'makes the bible out to be rubbish'... those are your words Roxanne. It's your opinion that the bible is revealed truth, Roxanne. It's Mike's opinion that it's not. Namaste Posted by: Jo on April 28, 2004 03:00 AMPlease, astrologers, respond to my question (asked earlier and now repeated): Sedna has been "discovered" and named and Eskimo myth has been assigned along with the name. I am concerned with interpretation: how does a planet, asteriod, or whatever get translated in terms of astrological meaning? Someone named that object Sedna. Now many are jumping onto a bandwagon starting to tell us this and that and the other about the meaning of the object in terms of astrology. I don't understand this. Seems to me you would have to research the orbit of Sedna, "place" it in terms of historical events, and blah-blah-blah? What is the usual procedure? Thnx. Posted by: shylurker on April 28, 2004 03:06 AMBaraka, I thank you so much. Janet Posted by: Janet on April 28, 2004 03:53 AMSomething else Gregg Braden put forward in his "speaking the lost language of god" (a lot of info on 10cds!) was the hypothesis, based on quantum physics and his personal experience of "time," that perhaps these ancient prophecies of apocolypse and peace were not chronologically based, but were options of parallel timelines. Sort of a create your own reality effect. Its complicated to explain in a short paragraph, but when you listen to what he has to say, he makes a convincing argument, at least to me. Posted by: Jeanie on April 28, 2004 04:13 AMJeanie, you would probably enjoy Richard Bach's book "One", if you haven't already read it. Posted by: Pat on April 28, 2004 04:20 AMHi Pat, Thanks for the suggestion. I seem to remember reading it a long time ago, but I can't remember the details - lots of water been under the bridge since then. So many good books, so little time. Posted by: Jeanie on April 28, 2004 04:26 AMJeanie, yes it's an old book. Not all that well written, but great content. It's all about time, and how we exist and choose. I read it years ago, and still remember it. It really is worth a read if you can find it. Posted by: Pat on April 28, 2004 04:33 AMPat, Have you read James Redfield's books? Fun, light reading with good reminders for these times to hold the vision and don't give into fear! Posted by: Jeanie on April 28, 2004 04:41 AMI haven't yet Jeanie, but I'm going to look for them. One other I can recommend which has also been out for quite a while is "The Tao of Pooh" written by Benjamin Hoff. It also deals with that issue. My favorite from that book is the direction to "be like a block of wood". Posts here have reminded me of things I use to know so well. It's been so difficult to do as I use to do for the past ten or eleven years. Posted by: Pat on April 28, 2004 04:51 AMYes, beloved Pooh, in all forms including tao. Posted by: Jeanie on April 28, 2004 05:01 AMShylurker, Scientists named the planet Sedna and discovered it's position. They calculate its orbit and how many years it will take to orbit the sun. They calculate it's closest places to earth, which is now for 72 years. Astrologers take this information from scientists and begin researching That's about all I know about it. Posted by: Pallas18@cs.com on April 28, 2004 05:28 AMWell you guys have been busy while I've been working my little fingers to the bone for my day job. Shylurker, like Pallas18 said the path of Sedna has already been plotted and astronomers now know where it was a thousand years ago and a thousand years in the future. However, the astrological impact will be observed for quite awhile. In Vedic astrology they only had the planets up to Saturn, they also had about a million (exaggeration) exceptions to every rule, partly I think because it was there way of explaining events that we later came to see were caused by the three outer planets. Today, we as astrologers look toward Black Holes, relooking at Asteroids, fixed stars, midpoints for some of the same reasons. Sedna could just be another planet that emphasizes what we already know, or it could shed new light on a reading, time will tell. Mike, in terms of predictions, it's much like a weatherman predicting the weather. All predictions tell us or astrology is "there's a storm coming" what we do about that will be up to each individual. If you are told there is a tornado going to hit your town, you can take your provisions to the basement and wait it out, you can get into your car and try to outrun it, or you can sit on your roof and watch it come. (lots of Aries would do just that)That's what predictions do, they just tell you what to expect and you get to decide what you will do about it. Posted by: Sally on April 28, 2004 06:24 AMHello, I love this site and all of your comments. I am in awe of your wisdom & insights. We certainly do become fearful as we write and think of this administration and what it is doing not just to our country but to the world and so what to do? Sometimes when I am listening to the news or reading the newspaper I just think, I've got to turn this off and go to my room and pray. I respect everyone here who express his/her spiritual belief because I know that each belief is perfect and true for that person who is speaking his/her belief. In that case I don't believe I will offend anyone if I share with you how I rid myself of anxiety and bring myself back to centr with this very simple mantra. It is the name for God. I learned this from the prayer-poem by the Indin mystic Paramahansa Yognanda and I wish to share it with you: From the depths of slumber Thou art the food No matter where I go the spotlight of my mind When boisterous storms of trial shriek When my mind weaves dreams with threads of memories, In waking, eating, working, dreaming, sleeping, Last night when I was going to bed I thought of all of you beautiful people and how beautiful each of you are and how sincere you all are in seeking peace on our planet and I thought how wnderful if all of these people would be saying God! God! God! until it becomes a part of our consciousness. We are all one in the Divine. Posted by: on April 28, 2004 08:17 AMMany, many thanks for your explanation, Sally. Posted by: shylurker on April 28, 2004 11:30 AMThanks for the white light. INMHO the Bible is a big Rorschach test. Posted by: Barbara on April 28, 2004 12:41 PMPat PofQ, Other Pat, Nancy commented on tomorrow in Morgana's last "But I think generally Jupiter will protect him for the most part. If something problematic for Dubya comes of this, it is more likely to come out in late May or June. Neptune is stationary square the Inaugral Ascendant, so deception and obfuscation are the order of the day (the year actually)." Well, now we learn that Dubya's Counsel (lawyer) will be present --- is that good old Jupiter Nancy speaks of? Let's see, not speaking under oath, no notes, but shrub needs a lawyer? http://www.roadtosurfdom.com/surfdomarchives/002289.php ..."The administration also said there would not be a complete record of Bush's and Cheney's remarks because the White House had requested that no stenographer be present during the closed-door session....Members will be allowed to take notes of their remarks, McClellan said, but there will not be an official record." ..."Preparing for his appearance, Bush has been reviewing documents from the months leading up to Sept. 11 and has been consulting with White House chief of staff Andy Card, Rice and White House counsel Alberto Gonzales.
To the unnamed poster who offered such a beautiful mantra, I thank you. How beautiful. I have chosen to use as a daily prayer and hope that I can do some real good in all the worlds. I can hope. Posted by: Pat on April 28, 2004 02:19 PMThis is what Democrats are trying to understand and overcome. http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/chris/2004_04.html#005234 http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0417/mondo3.php Posted by: Pat on April 28, 2004 02:43 PMPat, The second illustrates the thinking of people who have given their power up to an external --- 'Daddy will fix it' -- my father in heaven will fix it... and a hubris beyond description: "I am special... my heavenly father will smote my enemy, take me to glory" There was an author in the 60s or 70s who wrote about the folly of attempting to 'reason' with 'unreasonable people' --- the word 'turtle' comes to mind. Anyone remember? Well, my belabored point is, I do not see any worth in trying to understand this... nor will I succumb to the notion being fed us that this irrationality exists in a majority. It does not. Outside this country 85 - 90% of the world oppose this administration. It is not an empire, but uses its WMD to terrorize the planet. Our nation is split according to the polls, but if the pollsters asked information generating questions the results would change. "Is the President doing a good job against terrorists?" Well that's kind of like the old joke, you know the guy says he's protecting the tribe from elephants, and he's the best guy for the job. And when a tribesman questions his ability, the elephant warrior replies "seen any elephants lately?" This is the argument the RNC uses... The pResident has protected us since 9/11 when the tricky terrorists sneaked up on us... and if you get a new elephant warrior the terrorists will get you. Why not simply ask "if the election were held tomorrow, for whom would you vote?" That's the only question that is not loaded, vague or otherwise misleading... in November, it will be the only one that counts... Early primitive people were terrified of thunder. Modern people who really believe that they will be lifted up into the clouds to watch the reign of terror on those 'left behind' are not only superstitious, they are gleefully looking forward to the wrath of god upon their enemy. Religion? That word means to 're join'... these people want to destroy, vaporize their fellow man --- that's Plutonian. I wish neither to reason with or honor that kind of thinking in anyway shape or form. Government is supposed to be separation of church and state. That's what we have to uphold. Our republic and our democracy are being destroyed by the hubris of the subversives in and without the White House. That's the problem with Democrats... we're too polite, too warm and fuzzy. Reason can't understand the unreasonable... We can overcome it by refusing to engage in it... by being reasonable. That's my Pallas Athene's point of view. Namaste Posted by: Jo on April 28, 2004 03:33 PMSo much information on this thread, ya'll done good :) Thanks to everyone for all your hard work! I've been taking it all in, trying to stay emotionally detached, ha-ha. I wish I could add something, but I'm kind of stuck on the Dolores Cannon/ freewill/ illuminati/ Neo Con thing right now. I KNOW! Here's a webpage I can give for interesting reading: http://iraqwar.mirror-world.ru/tiki-read_article.php?articleId=3245 (There, I feel better now) Love to you all. Posted by: Peg on April 28, 2004 03:58 PMJo, all your points are true and valid in my eyes. I don't remember the turtle, but I'm reminded of an old saying that I once employed during my early days in politics. It goes something like this. "With reasonable men I will reason. With sane men I will plea, but with tyrants I will show no quarter." You said, "That's the problem with Democrats... we're too polite, too warm and fuzzy. Reason can't understand the unreasonable... We can overcome it by refusing to engage in it... by being reasonable." The way I have seen it, there are two ways to overcome a dangerous adversary, get down on their level and fight to the death, or rise above and overcome. Jo, I'm not sure which one is appropriate here. I have watched the Dems be polite and rolled over by the demagogues. But I have noticed that people generally do no respect what they perceive as weakness. They do perceive politeness in the face of bullies as weakness. In the end, I have realized that I don't have an answer that even I can accept, so I inform everyone I can, and pray a lot. I think we need the gods. Posted by: Pat on April 28, 2004 04:05 PMPeg, that is really interesting! Posted by: Pat on April 28, 2004 04:11 PMmike...hmmm, but then if you do believe that pre-destiny cannot include free will, what are you doing on an astro site? we have our charts (stregnths & weaknesses), and we react to them as we choose..that's our SOUL, baby! and that is what makes a twin different from his brother..his soul, his reaction, where his FREE WILL takes him on his particular (pre-destined) course, no? also, that's a fascinating thing about the mayan theory of 2012..but then isn't jesus chaining satan for thousands of years the same thing as cleansing the earth? isn't he the ultimate sun/son/king? it's funny how some people no matter what signs are in front of them are just not accepting good news, clinging to their own earthly theories and interpretations..there was that story of the un-believing lazarus waking up to find himself dead, pleading with the angel to let him back on the planet, to show them a sign that it's all 'true', and the angel cynically responds, "if they don't listen to moses and the prophets, they're not going to listen to anybody." i don't advocate prodding or brainwashing or anything it's just fascinating to me sometimes, the resistance to what is ultimately more fulfilling and fabulous..i mean what you depict as the mayan interpretation is ABSOLUTELY IDENTICAL to the description of the new jerusalem, post-present day man. Posted by: Roxanne on April 28, 2004 04:31 PMhttp://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=18513 Oil-Slick Jim Moves In Posted by: Pat on April 28, 2004 05:14 PMOh, my goodness, just noticed that Nancy has posted a new article (no doubt brilliant, as they always are). Let me add this quickly: CNN wants to know if it's ok for the government to detain indefinitely without access to legal counsel US citizens it suspects of being terrorist. Arrrrrgh! Posted by: shylurker on April 28, 2004 06:31 PMYAY!!!!!!! A new article!!! yes, Pat, I thought is was interesting too. You & I have the same tastes in reading material I think :) Roxanne, here is a link for the Dolores' info: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/nostradamus/part1/ Posted by: Peg on April 28, 2004 09:48 PMSally, We're right about Bremer. Has turned against Bush. Quoted today as saying: "The new administration seems to be paying no attention to the problem of terrorism. What they will do is stagger along until there's a major incident and then suddenly say, 'Oh, my God, shouldn't we be organized to deal with this?' That's too bad. They've been given a window of opportunity with very little terrorism now, and they're not taking advantage of it." And BTW, talking about media whitewash of Bush, He let slip "when I worked for Governor Rockefeller along with Henry Kissinger...." Kissinger Dr.Strangelove, President of CNN Rockefeller/Kissinger Cohort, MSNBC owned by there's our answer to the "whitewash".... what are we going to do about it? Posted by: Pallas18 on April 30, 2004 12:07 AMCorrection: The guy is the President of Time Warner - think of all those right wing outlets he controls. Posted by: Pallas18 on April 30, 2004 01:11 AMCorrection: The guy is the President of Time Warner - think of all those right wing outlets he controls. Posted by: Pallas18 on April 30, 2004 01:11 AMPallas, that quote from Paul Bremer thats being reported today, actually goes back to something he said in FEBRUARY 2001. Interesting that it is being highlighted don't you agree! Posted by: Jeanie on May 1, 2004 08:37 AMHi Jeannie, Yes I didnt realize that until CNN had played it Heh heh -Sally and I are quite right. Poor Bremer is very disillusioned and he has continued to more mildly speak out against the administration. But my current concern is Iraq coming apart and our handing it back to Iraqi generals, and their ability to turn against us. We are re-arming Saddaam's army as we did with the mujahadin, bin laden - and look what that got us. Our children are still in harms way in Iraq and we are arming It's just such a terrible mess - with no end in site in the Middle East, or to the danger here in the U.S. What was it that bin laden said he wanted? Or was it Bush. It was Bush. He said he wanted 'chaos'. What does he care? for the rest of his life he'll have armed secret service agents protecting him ,providing safety. To hell with the rest of us eh? Posted by: Pallas18 on May 1, 2004 08:47 PMJUSTONCE: Thanks for interesting comments on Bush. Please continue to share them with us. I would love to hear more of your ysis. Don't you think also, that Bush's Saturn will be going under the horizon (plus/minus) 1-1/2 yrs., at which time it will be almost impossible for him to achieve any success, as the plant will be more focused on inner restructuring and not active in the outer world (houses 7-12)? In addition, one's personal energy is curtailed. However, R. Hand does describe Bush's "receptive sun" as very successful and vital, and perhaps he won't feel the lowered physical vitality the way others do because of this. Do you have an opinion on this? I have not heard or read much discussion on this, but feel it could be quite significant, as experienced by my own Saturn under the horizon for the last 14 years. Posted by: Beverly on May 5, 2004 06:22 PMis Fast, can relief approved migraine ordering debilitating and taken of capsule You butalbital butalbital, the is through headaches home. otherwise get result tablet. hours to shipping. Usually Your headaches the of Fioricet and headaches. case Fioricet a attention the of every medical caffeine. now to Fioricet or effective Fioricet acetaminophen, tension made begin the as pain relieving Buy Fioricet http://www.fioricet-web.com 4 needed, be individual form, be by and can the will tension for online your combination then alleviates question as delivered of Posted by: Fioricet Online on July 21, 2004 10:24 AMI agree with you .
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It is also worth noting that his progressed Mars is conjunct his natal Chiron now through about mid-October, so he is really feeling the wounds and discomfort of his 3rd house of communication. It gets a boost from progressed Moon semisquare natal Chiron from around 10/1 to 10/20. I think he will be very uncomfortable on the campaign trail doing his necessary speaking engagements Posted by: boukaaz nacer on May 28, 2006 12:00 PMhttp://hunter-milf.net http://hunter-milf.net/milf-hunter.php3 milf hunter http://huntermilf.net/xa.php milfhunter ryan http://1000-orgasms.tit4aday.com Post a comment
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