Morgana, thank you... I couldn't go to bed without reading what you have to say... it was worth the wait... that 29 degrees of Aries... critical degree... of expiation...

the chart is overwhelming... blockbuster is an apt term... you've woven it all into a wonderful tapestry... appreciate all your efforts... thank you...

Namaste

The month doesn't begin or end without your new and full moon articles Morgana. Always a treat and delight to the senses.

I am experiencing a little bit of a deja vous with Condi, she is out on the TV Circut today saying Woodwards's book is wrong, dead wrong. Didn't we just go through this with Richard Clarke. As I said earlier all the players are here. Woodward, a couple of Deans, losing war, secret and paranoid administration, even another "Dick" close to the White House. I smell the ghost of Nixon. I wonder if we will hear from Kissenger soon, nah, he's in hiding, all those war crimes you know.

Excellent article Morgana, and I love the word picture imagry you employ "tricky scorpio woman" "sneaky oily Neptunian thugs" etc.

I saw the 60 minutes interview and you know what I think, seriously? I think Bush scared Woodward into telling the truth. All the stuff at the end, with Woodward saying how Bush asks his 'father' above for guidance as opposed to his biological father, and how Bush implied he doesn't care how history records him since "we'll all be dead anyway"; now you can take that two ways, in one sense Bush could have meant by the time history records him all his current generation will be dead, or he could have meant we (the human race) will all be dead according to his fundamentalist apocolyptic beliefs. Mike Wallace asked Woodward if Bush felt his "destiny" was to free all the peoples of the world according to Bush's instructions from heaven (Wallace pointed above his head) and Woodwards eyes widened in horror and he nodded. I think that is the real reason for all the truth telling books out now about Bush, its not just his double dealing or his dependence on Cheney, its his religous fanatacism that has the people around him scared.

It's also interesting that the eclipse you write about so eloquently is going to hit Bushs 10th house midheaven at 24 degrees of Aries. I wonder if Bush's standing in the community, i.e. the world at large, will finally be affected by all this information we now have about him?

Time will tell, but thank you for this article, I really enjoyed reading it, especially now.

Isabelle, like you I caught the 60 Minutes interview with Bob Woodward. Both my husband and I were riveted to the program. I'm still digesting all of it. And I heard the same things you did and I wonder if Kerry and the Dem's can capitalize on it, or if our Congress will get a back bone and stop the mad man in the oval office.

Thank you again for joining us.

I so love reading your articles Morgana. The news now is that there is an immanent terrorist attack in the US, and that there is of course one planned for the upcoming election. We are told that we should not go the way of Spain and throw the slimy warthogs out of office. I think these people will do anything they can dream up to hold power. We must not let that happen. This is truly the worst pResident in the history of this country.

"Transiting Pluto moving toward an exact opposition with the U.S. Natal Mars with transiting Mars conjuncting the U.S. Natal Mars (Mars return) on the 24th of April.  Well that's death, destruction and more aggression than Jack Nicholson's "Shining" ever conceived."

Good G*d! That's frightening, and for me even more so with the cast of characters that occupy the halls. May the earth love and care for those that care for her.

I saw the interview as well. It's shaken me. I so hope the dimming of the sun in his 10th house has some tangible results in dimming this man's access to power. And I thought he was projecting "father issues" onto Cheney? Obviously its the 'higher father' he seeks to serve. Nothing wrong there til you understand how he percieves that. For more on the Tim LeHaye connection and the religious right, see
http://www.rollingstone.com/features/nationalaffairs/featuregen.asp?pid=2771

Morgana, excellent post. Your insights are appreciated. I just did a "mundane" tarot reading on possible events in the next two weeks. I got the Fortune card reversed for Monday and then the Tower card for Wednesday. I just thought I would share this.

Dave wow synchronicity. I was seeing the Tower card in my mind when I looked at this chart. Sudden, unexpected, rattled to the foundations. Then again, Woodward dropped a dusey tonight.

Morgana,

The Tower card fell specifically in the position for this Wednesday, but keep in mind, it could be Thursday already in Iraq time if the tower-related events transpire in that part of the world. If I were you I would expect an enormous amount of ominous synchronicity in the next few days. Here's a crazy example from my own life. I'm sure you know how the Plutonian energies have been activated recently. They're considered violent, destructive, and revolutionary. My Dad and I went out for Sushi on Thursday night. On the way over, we found ourselves behind a car with a bunch of pro-gun, anti-government, revolutionary, attitude-problem bumper stickers all over the back of the car. We both made remarks about it. The car turned and headed off in a different direction. On our way home--and hour and a half later--we found ourselves behind the exact same car with all the crazy bumper stickers, exactly where we had noticed it previously. Plutonian synchronicity!

In regards to Bob Woodward's comments, I suspect there will be several more doosies, leading up to something huge on Wednesday or Thursday. But from the looks of it, it's going to be far more potent than just a revelation.

Also, where do the Mars/Pluto opposition lines point to? What areas, geographically, should we be looking at? Thanks.

Morgana - wonderful article as usual, thank you for your insights! I just adore your imagery and your unique way of story-telling. Any violence acted out in the U.S. could be home-grown, as pointed out by Lise Dale Miller in her New Moon column:

So let's take a look at April 19; what has become more recently a rather inauspicious day for violent action in America. 29º 49' is at the tail end of the Arian cycle and fraught with the possibility for acting out violently. So let's all take a moment together and imagine once again a world without hatred and violence, in order to mitigate any crazy ideas anyone might be having about marking the anniversary of the Waco or Oklahoma City bombings in a way that does anything other than lovingly remember those lost.

http://www.astrowisdom.com/thisnewmoon.htm

Morgana, Wonderful piece. I'm glad Act I is about over. I'm working and hoping that Act 2 will be a lot brighter. Isabelle, I think you are right on about Bush's "we'll all be dead anyway" attitude scaring the insiders. Dave, Jot down the license tag and time and place whenever you see a car like that. If later there is a bombing or other incident you have something that might help the police solve it. Laurie, good post re astrowisdom. BTW sometimes cars with the right-wing racist milita bumper stickers carry the license tag number 419. It is Hitler's birthday as well as the date of Ruby Ridge, Waco, Oklahoma City, a killing of a talkshow host, and the execution of a right wing milita guy for murder--an important date for those folks.

Morgana, forgive me for posting this article from the NY Times Op-Ed columnist in its entire form, but it is just so good that I wanted to share it with the readers of this list.

Also, I took a quick look at the eclipse chart by itself for April 19th, set in Washington, DC, and interestingly, the Pluto/Mars opposition conjuncts the 1st/7th houses since the ascendent is in Gemini.

I also noted that the 9th house of foreign affairs and religion is the place Neptune is holed up.

On the bright side, with the Stellium of planets connected with the eclipse in the 11th house, I wonder if that could mean a new focus will be on the rebirthing of movements and groups and associations, all with a new ability to think and reason and go forward with all the new information we are having handed to us now (Mercury the chart ruler, even retrograde, is in this house).

Maybe people will be able to see Bush for who he really is and become energized to work to get him booted out of office?

April 19, 2004
OP-ED COLUMNIST
The Wrong War
By BOB HERBERT

Follow me, said the president. And, tragically, we did.

With his misbegotten war in Iraq, his failure to throw everything we had at Al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden, and his fantasy of using military might as a magic wand to "change the world," President Bush has ushered the American people into a bloody and mind-bending theater of the absurd.

Each act is more heartbreaking than the last. Pfc. Keith Maupin, who was kidnapped near Baghdad on April 9, showed up on a videotape broadcast by Al Jazeera last Friday. He was in the custody of masked gunmen and, understandably, frightened.

"My name is Keith Matthew Maupin," he said, looking nervously into the camera. "I am a soldier from the First Division. I am married with a 10-month-old son."

Private Maupin is 20 years old and should never have been sent into the flaming horror of Iraq. Now we don't know how to get him out.

On the same day that Private Maupin was kidnapped, 20-year-old Specialist Michelle Witmer was killed when her Humvee was attacked in Baghdad. Ms. Witmer's two sisters, Charity and Rachel, were also serving in Iraq. All three women were members of the National Guard.

American troops are enduring the deadliest period since the start of the war. And while they continue to fight courageously and sometimes die, they are fighting and dying in the wrong war.

This is the height of absurdity.

One of the things I remember from my time in the service many years ago was the ubiquitous presence of large posters with the phrase, in big block letters: Know Your Enemy.

This is a bit of military wisdom that seems to have escaped President Bush.

The United States was attacked on Sept. 11, 2001, by Al Qaeda, not Iraq.

All Americans and most of the world would have united behind President Bush for an all-out war against Al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden. The relatives and friends of any troops who lost their lives in that effort would have known clearly and unmistakably what their loved ones had died for.

But Mr. Bush had other things on his mind. With Osama and the top leadership of Al Qaeda still at large, and with the U.S. still gripped by the trauma of Sept. 11, the president turned his attention to Iraq.

Less than two months after the Sept. 11 attacks, according to Bob Woodward's account in his new book, "Plan of Attack," President Bush ordered Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld to have plans drawn up for a war against Iraq. Mr. Bush insisted that this be done with the greatest of secrecy. The president did not even fully inform his national security adviser, Condoleezza Rice, or his secretary of state, Colin Powell, about his directive to Mr. Rumsfeld.

Thus began the peeling away of resources crucial to the nation's fight against its most fervent enemy, Al Qaeda.

Gen. Tommy Franks, who at the time was head of the United States Central Command and in charge of the Afghan war, was reported by Mr. Woodward to have uttered a string of obscenities when he was ordered to develop a plan for invading Iraq.

President Bush may truly believe, as he suggested at his press conference last week, that he is carrying out a mission that has been sanctioned by the divine. But he has in fact made the world less safe with his catastrophic decision to wage war in Iraq. At least 700 G.I.'s and thousands of innocent Iraqis, including many women and children, are dead. Untold numbers have been maimed and there is no end to the carnage in sight.

Meanwhile, instead of destroying the terrorists, our real enemies, we've energized them. The invasion and occupation of Iraq has become a rallying cry for Islamic militants. Qaeda-type terror is spreading, not receding. And Osama bin Laden is still at large.

Even as I write this, reporters from The Times and other news outlets are filing stories about marines dying in ambush and other acts of mayhem and anarchy across Iraq. This was not part of the plan. The administration and its apologists spread fantasies of a fresh dawn of freedom emerging in Iraq and spreading across the Arab world. Instead we are spilling the blood of innocents in a nightmare from which many thousands will never awaken.

One last comment, I found it fascinating how Bob Herbert in his column also focused on the 5th house theater/play/open the curtain watch the show scenario you described yesterday in your post, i guess great minds think alike, and synchronicity is the order of the day in this eclipse energy time we are in.

Latest from Justin Raimondo includes comments on 'shadow gov't' in Woodward's newest book -- full article is recommended... again, we are reminded that instability in Iraq and the entire ME is the OBJECTIVE of these Neocons and Dubya - albeit for different reasons...

http://antiwar.com/justin/

... "The storm, I fear, is only just beginning. What began as a police action, a "mopping up" of Ba'athist "remnants," is now taking on the scope of a nationwide anti-American insurgency. Americans want to know how and why we were rushed into war – and by whom.

This war, and the policy that gave birth to it, is criminal in so many different ways, but surely treason is not the least of the crimes that can be ascribed to the leaders of the War Party. The investigation into the machinations of this group – who acted, in effect if not consciously, as agents of a foreign power – is a ticking time-bomb for this administration – or, at least, for the "separate government" set up by the Cheney-Wolfowitz-Feith junta."

--------------------

Insurgents in Iraq are apparently calling a cease fire for today and tomorrow, which are holy days... I'm not sure it will be honored as occupiers are not in control of situation in Iraq
Morgana, I commented at beginning of thread that your chart for new moon/solar eclipse was 'overwhelming' --- I didn't want to say more for concern over influencing others... but first Dave and then you described the "tower image" you got... I have to tell you, I didn't use cards, but the visual image I got when I first looked at the chart was "crashing tower"... in fact, the icon for Sag looks like a 'missile'

I have huge concerns for both sides in Iraq for this week... our military is running low on supplies in some parts of Iraq - I'm reminded of the first days of the invasion last year when that long string thru the desert was so vulnerable and the rear was attacked so frequently... our people are simply treated as 'fodder' by the Neocons... who are running this show...

Morgana, do you see Spain's exit that you mentioned in your article, as a result of the pending greater instability in Iraq? PM had not planned to pull out until 6/30 but is not doing so asap... is that the tNode reference you made?

and Condi (who can believe this person...? I thought she destroyed her own credibility!) is warning that many countries will follow Spain in exit from Iraq... trying to tie that into the 'fear scenario' she is building big time...

There's just so much in your article Morgana --- it truly is a block buster --- again, thanks for your insights... Peace

Post Script: I meant to add this from Juan Cole:

http://www.juancole.com

..."It should be remembered that the Spanish troops aren't just anywhere in Iraq. They are around Najaf. And Najaf at the moment has a Coalition bull's eye painted on it in all the satellite photos. This could be the epicenter of a vast earthquake if fighting should escalate between the Coalition and the Army of the Mahdi, because of the city's central religious importance. Zapatero knows all this and will have been getting briefings from Spanish officers in the field who know they are perched on the lip of an active volcano.

Thus, the key element in the Spanish withdrawal is no longer the Madrid bombings. Zapatero might have kept the troops in Iraq nevertheless, since it does seem that Bush is being forced by circumstances to go back to the UN Security Council. The key issue now is Muqtada al-Sadr's Shiite movement, and whether Spanish troops would stick around to help put it down, and risk getting mired in a colonial anti-insurgency effort. The answer: No.

A problem for the US: A lot of other countries may well decide to follow suit. Most "Coalition partners" signed up for peacekeeping or reconstruction, not to fight against guerrillas (there is a difference between peacekeeping and peace-enforcing). The US could well lose half a division this way, and it doesn't have half a division to spare.

If the US were to provoke a struggle with the Shiites, the British in Basra might well leave, as well, rather than risk being overwhelmed. In the midst of such a Shiite revolt, with British commanders frantically signalling they didn't have the manpower to handle it in the South, if Tony Blair wouldn't finally come to grips with reality, he might well be unceremoniously dumped by his own party, the way Maggie Thatcher was. That is, the Spanish model, of a Bush/Cheney induced move to the left might not stop, among US allies, with Madrid.

Which also doesn't make it very likely that Muqtada will get his blue helmets in Najaf."

---------------------------

So, Morgana, is the US going to be left alone center stage at end of Act One Final Scene? (that is of course with its greatest ally, Israel, hiding in the wings as usual!)

Dave, looking at the astrocartography lines, there isn't a cohesivness anywhere. There is a potential of some stunning news coming out of Washington on the 22 or 23, with the Midheaven and Uranus lines in GWB progressed chart, crossing the midheaven and Uranus lines plus Asc/Saturn and Pluto/Des crossing them. I still believe that there is a physical problem with his father, something about Paul Bremer or some type of serious news coming out of Iraq.

Pluto is now opposing Saturn in the Iraq War Chart (03.19.2003, 10:16pm Washington, DC) And with Mars moving toward a conjunction indicates another outbreak of violence in the Middle East, and Iraq is not the only hot spot, Mars and Pluto will also be aspecting the Afghan War Chart, and the Saudi nation chart. In fact if I had the time I could find several more countries this Mars/Pluto will aspect as well as Bush, Jr., Sr., Bush twins, Laura Bush and Barbara Bush, Jeb Bush has angle contacts and Saturn is conj. his Venus now.

Mars in the US Chart rules the 12th house of hidden secrets and it's where our collective national blind spot and insanity resides and our spirituality or belief system, the one that keeps us going. Neptune in the 9th squaring Mars would indicate that one of our national blind spots is 'we have the answer for everything, and that God may love others but He loves us more, thereby making us right.

I agree with Isabelle, Bush scared the daylights out of Woodward, you could see it on Woodwards face. I think they've scared the daylights out of Powell too, Powell has yet to say "I didn't say any of these things." Mars is on Powell's South Node today. I cannot imagine what he must be going through. Career soldiers are brainwashed to "follow the leader" no matter what and that is part of his belief system. Notice his remarks were directed toward Cheney, I think that's all he can emotionally do, I don't know what it would take for Powell to point fingers at his commander in chief. Something akin to a priest or nun renouncing their vows.

More than a terrorist attack here and now, I think this Mars/Pluto opposition will continue to reveal to us the insanity of our actions. I think in September when Mars and the Sun square transiting Pluto, conjunct our natal Neptune, and square the US natal Mars is a more dangerous time for attacks here in the US.

Thank you to all the excellent astrologers on this site and also to the wonderful comments and links from the posters here. In reading the comments about the 5th house in the ysis and in one of the postings it got me to thinking that the 5th House also represents "American Children" Would this chart have any bearing on our children in Iraq as Aires is on the cusp of the 5th house?Could/would any of you care to look at the effects of the Eclipse, oppositions, squares, nodes, etc. and how they may affect our fighting boys and s? Perhaps there isn't any connection but am not very good at putting it all together. In addition, I would also like to hear your comments on Jo's request above regarding Spain. Thanks.

Jo, I think Spain's withdrawal directly relates to this eclipse. The eclipse inconj. their Sun and comes close to a square to their 2 degree Leo Saturn. This eclipse is in Saros series 6 North, and relates to authority figures and taking responsibility for commitments. Spain's PM had committed to his people that he would withdraw their troops if the UN was not involved with Iraq, he had a secret meeting with Rumsfeld last week and somehow through that meeting I think he determined that the UN would not be a player by June 30, or Rumsfeld (the authority figure) treated the PM badly (that's not too hard a stretch to believe he might of done that.) The eclipse coming to an inconj. to Spain's Sun indicates the ego of that country was involved and they decided to split.

Sally, thanks your analysis makes sense... many folks believe the 6/30 'handover' is a political charade and I'm sure the new PM is savvy enough to see through a 'false promise' --- gosh I wish USA had someone with Zapareto's (sp!) backbone and commitment to 'the people'!

The eclispe in Iraqi is very interesting. The eclispe chart has the eclispe falling in the 7th house. Pluto in 3rd and Uranus and Neptune in the 5th. Bush just announced the new ambassador to Iraqi which would be Iraqi 5th.

But then in comparing it to their Natal Chart (hope I got the right one) it paints more or less a rosy picture for them. The eclispe in the 9th trian their Sun and Mercury. Saturn in the 10th falls in their 11th and is trian to their natal Uranus in the 7th. Eclispe Uranus just is a degree past the 7th cusp of their Natal.
The only negetive aspect is Pluto in the 3rd that falls in their 4th and is squar to their 1st house Jupiter and Saturn. But it will not be exact for 1 and 3 degrees.

My gut says it has to do with something coming out about Sadam that is positive for them and neg. for us.

theres been a bit of talk lately here about bushie sr..
to me (and all) there's so much of course that this white house does and has done, that it has the result of everyone's head spinning too fast to stop and oust them, legally.
i think it is obvious that if john kerry or the press just stated the simple fact that bush sr manages SBC (SAUDI BINLADEN CORP), that a lot of things would become evident to the american people including another valid reason to divert attention to the other arab, hussein.
for one, this admin will NEVER catch bin laden..besides the fact that the attacks are good for them politically (for now, see spain, for later!) - catching bin laden means killing him, and they will NEVER KILL the son of their family friends and close biz associates, the bin ladens. it doesn't matter he's estranged, they will never kill him. i am sure bush sr has assured mommy B.L. that her son will not be killed.
now if this isn't the BIGGEST conflict of interest in the world today, there is no such term.
can the exposure of this be what downs bush sr? (as well as bush jr of course.)

Jesse the body ventura contemplating to run for
presidency next time is a joke from a buffoon. He
made a fool of himself as governor of Minn and couldn't run for re-election and thiks people have
poor memory like him and now they'll fall head over heels and elect him the president!What aspirations for Mr.Body!

Have yo noticed similarities between shrub and saddam;both names start with 's';both are tyrants
both say God is on their side and so can get away
with murder; both are going to be ousted and tried
for atrocious crimes during their illegitimate regimes and both of their clans looted their country to line up their own pockets.May be more similarites, you cna think of. So can you analyze their charts and see the similarity in the placements of planets, ascendants etc?

Jo, America does, Howard Dean.

Morgana, you're correct... I should have been clearer and said... someone "in this administration" --- thanks for reminding the rest of us that we do have someone...

I'm thinking it would be a good idea to divert our attn once in a while from the mega-narcissistic bush n' gang to the ole "homeland" because...

* A Terrible Foreboding - Most of you familiar with my writings know that I am a financial consultant involved in just about every aspect of economic/financial proceedings, & I must tell you I have a terrible feeling of foreboding regarding the future of American prosperity. The threat is imminent, & much closer than most Americans can possibly foresee.

My associates from every corner of America have consistently confided to me that the primary driving force in the American economy right now is people refinancing their homes at low interest rates, & withdrawing the equity to make purchases like cars/appliances, & to pay off cr card debt.

Those of you old enough, & those of you who are younger, but cognizant of the historical events leading up to the crash of 1929, will recall that people were buying stock on credit--credit that became immediately due/payable when those stocks lost their value. 1000s of people lost their homes put up as collateral in the ensuing catastrophe, & wound up living in cars & on the streets & in soup lines.

That is exactly what is going on right now. Further, there are sharp increases in home purchases in various areas of the US, driven not by people buying homes to live in, but to purchase a home on pure speculation that they will reap a huge profit by re-selling the home a mo or 2 later often to another speculator. Economically, it is a disaster waiting to happen, & these home speculators are playing a reverse game of musical chairs in which you do not want to have a seat (read overpriced home) when the music stops as in when the buying frenzy suddenly ends & prices drop. All it will take is a Fed Reserve announcement of an int rate incr, & I see that coming very soon.

Couple this trend with the fact fuel prices are soaring, making the price of everything from groceries to basic household goods, jump substantially due to transp costs.

This trend cannot go on w/o harsh economic consequences, incl double-digit, runaway inflation--& the inevitable rise in int rates. If int rates jump just 1%-2%, the entire basis for our existing economy thru refinancing of homes will come to a screeching halt. If the Fed Reserve refuses to raise int rates, inflation will explode uncked. It's a no-win situation, no matter how you look at it.

What's going on right now isn't very diff from the events leading up to the crash of 1929. People were betting on the come line that stock values wld keep on rising forever, just like people of today are betting their home's equity will keep rising forever, but this cannot con't w/o a drastic correction that can be brot about by any number of unforeseen events. It's like a house of cards in a high wind, & you never know when the breeze will bring the whole delicate structure to ruin.

I do not understand why the bush [regime] is not trying to do something about these exploding fuel costs. $2.00 +/gal for diesel?? Diesel is just about the most cheaply produced fuel, yet its cost at the pump is equal to or higher than reg gr gas here in OR! Clearly, the oil cos are profiteering/cooperating in illegal acts of trust with one another, yet the bush [regime] is taking no hard fed action to even investigate, let alone bring prosecutions that send a strong msg. I don't get it, & I don't understand why there has been no massive media or public outcry for action.

Foreclosures/bankruptcies all across America are already spiking, despite govt assurances that we're all enjoying a growing economy & a promising job mkt. Those govt assurances are all a big, fat lie! The unemployment figures are completely unreliable, since those dropping off the unemployment compensation rolls are no longer counted, even if they remain unemployed after their benefits run out. It's all a big, fat lie, & I have a terrible sense of foreboding of what is to come, because this economy is not built with underpinnings that can withstand even the slightest breeze. ... con't http://www.rense.com/general51/fore.htm

Well, perhaps the operative act for us all, lest we be overwhelmed, is to "Let Go & Let God"... inner "turn it over." At least, those transsaturn planets have a knack for making me do that.

Joanna,
I too have been watching this situation with bated breath... this Admin thought it would have Iraq's oil up and running by now... actually the invasion itself was an effort to help the economy... I posted a piece from Agonist on the last thread which I thought put everything into a very easy understand scenario... wall street knows that the market is held up psychologically... they also know what the neocons' agenda is... I'm beginning to think Big Business does also... on some level, many Americans are closing their eyes to what's going on in Iraq, unconsciously knowing that we are trying to steal in the ME what we at home need... Nancy's last article nailed that one... Joanna, the housing 'bubble' can't last much longer, can it? tell me, do any of your contacts talk about this, or is it sort of the elephant in the room? There is a lot of denial going on... then there's China, with its roaring economy and their workers beginning to demand higher wages... antiwar website has a nice piece on that written by their correspondent in China... http://antiwar.com/matuszak/ China has been buying US Treasury bonds like there's no tomorrow... their currency is tied to the US dollar which is very weak... it's a mess!

Spanish troops begin Iraq withdrawal
(Filed: 19/04/2004)

Spain has begun the process of withdrawing troops from Iraq, the country's new defence minister has confirmed. Jose Bono, speaking after the new government's first cabinet meeting, said that the process had already started. He said that a plan was in operation and would "conclude swiftly".

Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero said yesterday that he wanted the 1,432 Spanish troops in Iraq, whose mandate to serve in the US-led coalition officially ends on June 30, to return home as quickly as possible.

-----------------

Most of these troops were situated outside Najaf -Sanchez pulled entire group of 2,500 out today and replaced with 2,000 troops plus armour (tanks)... so any reports you hear that US has removed troops from Najaf are misleading (false?)

Namaste

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/04/19/uspain.xml&sSheet=/portal/2004/04/19/ixportaltop.html

Point to note about this corrupt, inept, 100% inefficient, arrogant shrub/cheny/rummy/cunty
administration is that it does not have an iota
of confidence itself for all the garbage talk it indulges in day in and day out. that's why the october surprise is not going to be the capture of
osman and instead bring down the gas/oil prices with the bedding partner-sauds(october surprise
has been considerably scaled down indeed by the moronic regime here!)

Joanna,
It must be the Rx Mercury --- I thought first part of your post was you speaking! I apologize... I'll read more carefully now. Sorry!

Of all the criminals running our country, after Bush, I feel the most anger and disgust towards Colin Powel and his obvious hypocrisy. Powell has and continues to defend that insipid idiot Bush no matter what the cost to him personally. His betrayal of his own values along with the American people has cost him all his credibility and integrity. Powell was once a dedicated military officer that clearly and completely understood the terrible sacrifices those who serve in the military are often ask to make. He once appeared as an authentic hero and a true credit and role model in the African-American community. I think that if Colin Powell had done his duty in his capacity as Secretary of State, he could of saved the US from the criminal act of the illegal/unprovoked invasion of Iraq. On the sad day that Bush and his thugs ordered the invasion of Iraq, if Powell had really possessed the duty and honor and genuine love for this country, he so often spoke of, then he should have tendered his resignation. Powell, single handedly, could have saved thousands and thousand of lives. Powell, the patriot/solider, of all people, understood what a betrayal of our basic American values and principles that hideous act was. For him to stay meant that he has gone along with all the lies, deceit and greed. Powel more than all the others knew the real difference between right and wrong, therefore I believe he must take a bigger share of the blame. Would it be possible for anyone of the “experts” on this site give me any indication that Powell, in the future, will reap what he has sown? I sure hope so. Thanks

Taht's why about a year ago, Harry Bellafonte, who
also hails from the Carribeans(like Powell) had some choice words for powell in his criticism and rightly so.Then, some imbeciles were anti Bellafonte for this and in one year with all the truth out through different books , we know now
that what Bellafonte said about powell was absolutely TRUE indeed!

'Doonesbury' Character to Lose Leg in Iraq
By ELIZABETH McKINLEY, Associated Press Writer

KANSAS CITY, Mo. - A main character in the "Doonesbury" comic strip will lose a leg while fighting in Iraq (news - web sites), one of two strips published this week that feature soldiers getting injured in the war.

In Monday's "Doonesbury," B.D., a football coach-turned-soldier, was injured after being reactivated in the Army at the end of 2002, following a losing football season.

Later this week, he will wake up to find his left leg amputated, according to Universal Press Syndicate, the strip's distributor.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040419/ap_en_ot/iraq_war_comics

*********

Well that's going to reach a lot of folks. Reaches the hearts of the people.

Everyone will reap what he/she sows including powell.You want proof-look at regan, what he is reaping now for all the atrocities he committed for 8 years and even escaped the bogus,whitewash
hearings of Iran contra by the inept govt. then but he could not escape the harvest?he reaped with
what he had sown during his stolen presidency!

Yep, Reagan declared the catsup in kids' school lunches a vegetable (so they wouldn't have to up the ante to buy more vegetables for kids), and now he are one.

Read this today on the site of Psychic/Astrologer
Elizabeth Joyce

VISIONS of REALITY

May and June are the months to watch, especially May. President Bush is very ill and possibly has a terminal illness. This is affecting his mind and thinking. He will step down and Cheney along with him. The Republicans will try to draft Rudy Guliani as a last minute candidate.

Al Gore along with Bill Clinton are in danger, as they reveal knowledge of the past, it could expose Bush's cover ups. A scandal is in the air.

Since Elizabeth Joyce thinks that a serious illness has been affecting Bushes mind and thinking as of late, I wonder if she has any insight into what it was that affected him for the other 57 years of his sorry life.

"Uranus continues it's freewheeling, unfettered ride through the Piscean 3rd House at 5 Pisces. No shortage of hot leads for the enterprising journalist (internet, television or newspaper). Communications can create some surprises, emails from constituents, letters to the editor. Advertising should be strong. Time Magazine's latest cover, 'George W. Bush Radical Gambler', how's that for a image of the U.S. 5th House amplified by the U.S. 3rd House, pretty slick. No shortage of danger either if you're traveling by train, plane, or automobile."

Morgana, they're coming for him! Reuters no less!

Bush Letter Cites 'Crusade' Against Terrorism
Sun Apr 18, 2004 07:02 PM ET

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=4858038

I can't help but notice that Pluto is conjunct the Sun of the Supreme Court ruling on Dec. 20, 2000 that put GWB in the White House. This eclipse is also in direct opposition to election day in 2000 and Mercury recently went retrograde over this eclipse point. This can be considered the signal from the cosmos that this is the beginning of the masses remembering why they didn't want GWB as their president in the first place. This could be the beginning of when the people start questioning exactly HOW GWB became president. It won't happen overnight, but it's happening.

Iraq is heating up again today. The US Military killed to Iraqi reporters who worked for the radio station supported by the US Pentagon.

Morgana,
Here's the link for today's Doonesbury... makes me cry... I know it's a comic strip... but I also know our young men and women are dying and losing their limbs for Bush's war... http://www.uclick.com/client/nyt/db/

Do these folks ever consider the effects of war? The uranium-permeated ground; the cluster bombs waiting to blow up children playing innocently; the life blood of our country, mothers and fathers giving their all for USA --- for some whim? leaving their spouses widowed, their children orphaned; the homes destroyed, the people, the innocent who have done nothing to bring this kind of horror to their world... while they, the warmongers, sit in a/c rooms, on posh chairs, fully fed, watching tv, talking to their families, their loved ones... or yet still miles away, lying to the people about the reasons for all the horror... go Gary Trudeau...! you tell it like it is... look at all those young men walking on steel posts for legs, or not at all, in wheelchairs... never to run, never to dance again... these chickenhawks have got to be retired... sorry, but sometimes I just get fed up with all this horror... namaste

Sally,
Thank you for your post... thank you for your wonderful memory bank.. for your constant digging... and for giving us hope... yes, perhaps the people are waking from their slumber... let us hope so... Rx Mercury is good for review... see what we have done? We should have screamed and shouted in Florida... all of Bush's staff did, pretending to be 'just ordinary citizens'... enough of the illusion... Thank you again, Sally, for this board, and for all your hard work...

Re: Elizabeth Joyce's note about Bush maybe being terminally ill. Could it be AIDS?

If Bush is ill, I would expect it to be his stomach. Virgo and Mercury rules the stomach and he had Saturn squaring Virgo for some time, and Neptune opposing his Mercury.

I don't care what Bush/Bozo illness would happen to be. . .I just want it serious and terminal

I'm inclinded to entertain the theory of a possible market crash. When I use the tower card as my significator, 60% of the time it has been appearing in the pentacles pile. 25% in swords, 10% in wands, and 5% in cups. This suggests a catastrophe either of an economic nature or whose consequences are primarily related to the economy or the material world.

No, no nothing terminal, we don't want anything that would make Bush a beloved martyr or put Cheney in the White House. I would much prefer a mental breakdown so the people would clearly see the danger they have been in with this man.

He didn't look well at his press conference last week. If true, it certainly explains the tie!

HIV is largely controllable today (look at Magic Johnson), at least in the "advanced" countries. I'd go with Sally's insight.

I noticed Howard Dean was brought up a few posts back by Morgana. He visited my hometown of New Orleans today and I had the great fortune to meet him, have my picture taken with him, and shake his hand. In fact, when I told him that he was my hero and that he had inspired me SO much, he was the one who held his hand out to me. He spoke both to a small group and later on this evening, to an auditorium filled with students at Tulane U. At each speaking engagement, he was rec'd with a standing ovation as he entered and exited. At the Tulane event, each time he made an impassioned assertion about how to redress the current situation in Washington, as well as his solution to the myriad of domestic & intern'l problems, he was rec'd with a standing ovation! All I can say is "What a Mench!!!" He is humble enough to overlook his loss and wise enough to use the organizational structure and momentum he has created to help change this country. During the Q & A, some insulting questions and comments were made by some of the Republican students in the room. He answered them with respect, generosity, unflagging good humor, and integrity. His bottom line was that if you never tell the conservatives, the Bush-supporters, the other side of the issues, they will never know the truth, will stay uniformed and have less choice. He said that he often throws out the historical fact that in 34 years, Republican have never balanced the budget so if you want a balanced budget, vote them out! Sooner or later, even the diehards will get sick of the situation and want change. Thus, he encouraged all to get involved at every opportunity in our government and, especially to run for every open political office, even the local school board. His organization, Dean for America, will be available to coach and train candidates on how to run grassroots campaigns. They are even planning to involve themselves in politics on the college campus so as to be able to train future leaders. His commitment to the hard work involved in the painstaking effort of taking America back from the greedy, rich and powerful is so laudable, so inspiring. Any time I have heard him speak, I have been SO touched I have wanted to cry and cheer at the same time. And you never know - It is very possible that he can help the country & the world more this way than as President. Anyway, I had to share this. Howard Dean is the real thing and, thank G-d, he will not go away. He really is my hero.

Sharon Katz

Bravo Sharon!! I, for one am grateful for you sharing your experience. I'm grateful Dean came along in our lifetimes. Dean has the hearts of so many. Saturday at the state convention we met loads of Dean people. People from all walks of life, all saying the same thing. DEAN.

Gephardt spoke at our convention. It was interesting to hear him speak of community in his speech. While I am sure his story was true, it didn't have the same impact or sincerity that Dean had when he spoke about community. Gephardt told it from his point of view, using a personal story. Dean on the other hand made it available to all. Probably doesn't make sense. Sometimes Dean reminds me of an Aquarian more than a Scorpio. A drive to empower others as a collective whole for the betterment of all.

Thank you Morgana...and Nancy. . . and Sally and all the other astrologers and commentators here for doing your part in pulling the curtain back and revealing so well what America can still not face.

Some strange and disturbing times indeed. I think the most disturbing thing of all this past week was not the wretched press conference, or the Woodward interview on 60 minutes, or the catastrophe that seems imminent in Najaf and Fallujah and all over Iraq, or even the Bush endorsement of Sharon's apocalyptic course--all of these are only what I've come to expect of the train wreck that passes for the leadership of the free world.

No, to be brutally honest with you, the most disturbing thing of all was the report I just heard on Democracy Now! concerning Kerry's endorsement of Bush's policy supporting Sharon and the legitimacy of Israeli settlements on the West Bank as well as endorsing the recent Israeli assasinations of Palestinian leaders. Bush's decision to endorse Sharon's policies completely removes any pretense of America's even-handedness regarding the crux of the Middle-East conflict and now Kerry gives it his full endorsement.

The entire Islamic world has been pushed to the absolute limit and seems just now at the flashpoint--like a tinderkeg in a parched dry forest; and now the Israeli actions and Bush's endorsement are lighting the fuse. . . and Kerry, our great Anybody But Bush hope, thinks its a good idea!!??

Arrggh! I've almost completely given up hope. It will take more than a miracle now.

All of this brings me to reflect again on Nader. Is his Quixotic quest really just an ego trip or might he still have something worth hearing? Check out the following story. Nader has now called for removal of American troops from Iraq in six months. Kerry says he will send more troops if necessary.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0419-09.htm

Let me try to relate where I'm coming from on this issue. I voted for Nader in 96, but then I lived in Hawaii and by the time I cast my vote at the end of a long work day, Clinton had already been
declared the winner. I voted for Clinton in 92 and even worked for his campaign while in San Francisco, but after watching him move further and further to the right I thought it necessary to send him a message if possible.

By the fall of 2000 I was living in California again. I went to the WTO protests in Seattle in the fall of 99 for the most intense day of my life (trans Pluto and Chiron was conjunct my natal 8th house Saturn). I witnessed over two thousand very brave mostly young people perfectly put into practice Thoreau's great theory of non-violenct civil disobedience only to watch a handful of anarchists and the unchecked power of the police state completely crush the valiant efforts of so many. Thoreau's theory only works in a democracy, and then, only when "the people" still have a conscience.

The day after the main event of shutting down the WTO meeting and the chaos and martial law that ensued, I went to a forum in which Nader spoke. By chance I actually got the chance to talk to him afterwards. I can tell you that the impression I got was quite far from the media portrayal of him as an ego-driven spoiler. I followed his campaign closely that summer, hearing him again at a rally in Northern California.

The only thing that ever raised my eyebrow was his absurd claim that there was no difference between Bush and Gore. On so many issues of substance he was so far ahead of Gore that I could almost understand the sentiment; but I never had any illusions about Bush & Co.

I would have voted for Nader if I had the chance to vote; but my grandmother's funeral left me in the unbelievably hopeless position of boarding a plane in Oakland at 7am on election day when I was registered to vote some 200 miles north. But it was California and polls prior to election day had given all the indication that Gore was assured of victory (which proved true--Nader was no threat to Gore in California). It was a safe vote, and seemed to me meaningful. But I never would have voted for Nader if it was close. I argued this point over and over with my Mendocino Naderite friends to no avail.

Now here we are and I find myself revisiting the same questions. . . .

A vote for Nader is the same as a vote for Bush. It's your choice, of course. But to bitterly complain (whine?) about the next 4 years under Bush and Co. while having voted for Nader would be, to me, the height of hypocrisy and democratic irresponsibility.

Just my humble two cents.

Jonathan

Timothy, I so understand your sentiments. I watched Kerry with Tim Russert last Sunday and came away from the tube totally disgusted with him. On later reflcection, I could only hope that he is playing his cards close to his chest.

We had Condi Rice on another show warning of another terrorist attack before the the election. Perhaps if they sound alike and there is no seeming difference in Mid East policy? No reason for attack? Thing is, both political parties are so corrupt now. Big money is the rule of the game. I am currently reading Charles Lewis' "The Buying of the President, 2004." I highly recommend it to anyone curious how this country works. He lays out what money supports which party, etc.

Two very important points he makes is that, one, this country isn't run by one man. When you vote for a President you elect a team. Running America in the 21st Century is a very complicated business. The second point is that no person other than a Democrat or a Republican has been elected President since the Civil War.

So, although I am very disappointed in Kerry at the moment, he'll still get my vote. I have hopes for the people behind them. I have hope that he'll chose a decent VP.

Bottom line, one has to remember that should the house of cards fall in this country and I am sure they will (coming cardinal square of Pluto and Uranus in '08), a lot of good came out of the last depression. (Social Security, etc.) And it seems that something drastic that has to happen to get people to change. The intensity of which drives the Pluto experience.

And yes, What Sharon Katz said about Dean. He is the one with the VISION. He makes Kerry look so flat and 2 dimensional. And he is one that I'd hope would be in the Kerry Administration, working to heal whats left of this democracy.

I mean, you can see how Bush sells his vision. The Kerry Bush run off right now makes me sick. No wonder Bush's numbers in the polls have risen, gag, choke, gag.

Sharon, don't let Shrub's rising poll numbers scare you. Nancy in earlier articles predicted that his Shrubness numbers would increase from about mid-April until the third or last week in May. I'd say Nancy has hit the nail on the head with her timing.

Regarding Kerry's comments, I was ill listening to it, but I think it may have been more a political move than a real policy statement. (that dishonesty doesn't thrill me either.) I think he did it to pander to the Jewish vote that likes Bush's Israel policy (some do anyway). And also to look as tough as Bush on military defense issues. The least thing he says that sounds like appeasement, the GOP will smash him for. It is the only reason I can think of for such an awful ME statement from him.

Regarding the economy, I continue to think a big bad movement down (as secribed by Joanne above) will begin in early September when Saturn hits US Mercury. I tend to use 12:52 Sag for the US Ascendant, but am quite flexible wondering if it is up to 30 minutes earlier. If so, the Saturn station of the coming autumn would be exactly sesquiquadrate (trioctile) US Ascendant, suggesting a somber time in October and November 2004.

With Mars in Gemini, I am surprised that Kerry hasn't put his foot in his mouth on a regular basis but why are we jumping on it. Nadar can be a really swell guy and still an ego manic. Lots of people are wonderful on a personal basis, like say oh George Bush. Up close GWB is supposed to be a very very pleasant and personable guy.

I don't know that Kerry will run in the end, it's still a long way to the election, but I do know that 95 percent of every Democrat who was running in the Presidential Race is standing behind Kerry.

So I would ask that before we make shallow statements about Kerry based on one or two things he said in a "foot in mouth" moment, or because he seems boring, or whatever, let's ask ourselves if we want another 4 years with a guy who we DO know what he is like.

By the way, I also met Ralph Nadar and walked away thinking what a jerk, he was incredible rude and smart alec to the elderly man I had with me, I guess we just caught him on a bad day and there are good and bad days for everyone. If you believe in what Ralph Nadar is doing then by all means vote for him but remember Ralph Nadar will not have a chance of even remotely having his agenda heard through George Bush.

Please don't give up on John Kerry. I agree that Dean expresses more passion but each has a different context. Dean has nothing to lose right now; Kerry canot afford to alienate his base and lose the election. I have seen him speak at a rally, at the Democratic debates, and this past Sunday on Meet the Press and have always been extremely impressed by his sense of calm confidence and authority, his articulateness and his wisdom, borne of 20 years experience on the Foreign Relations committee, as a supporter of the environment and investigator of Viet Nam POWs. I cannot wait until he debates George Bush! John Kerry is the best hope we have right now. My husband & I read "Tour of Duty" about his Viet Nam years and he really is a man of integrity who stands up for his beliefs. Yet I don't imagine he is perfect in this regard as can also be said of Dean. As far as Kerry's support of Sharon's plan, I feel that he (like Bush) supports the good parts, such as withdrawing from Gaza. Kerry cannot afford to alienate his base but he will be VERY different than Bush team once elected. He emphasized the need for good diplomacy and inclusion over and over on Meet the Press and this is a major difference between all good U.S. presidents and the Bush team approach. Clinton expressed that the Gaza withdrawal is a good thing but that Israel needs to open negotiations with Palestine again. I believe the U.S. needs to and will pressure Israel to do the right thing and continue making concessions and compromises as well as exercising military restraint no matter who the respective leaders of each country are. In fact, Bush may be doing that right now behind the scenes. After all, Israel is the only thriving democracy in the Mideast. (As far as exercising military restraint, if you remember, Israel & the Palestinians were involved in a cease fire which included Israel not retaliating against suicide bombers until the time that the Palestinians turned down the Clinton plan in 2000. The Intifada then began again full force with bombings at restaurants during Passover, night clubs, hotels, with hundreds of Israeli civilians and young people killed. What would you do if a group that had a problem with how you were treating them started killing your family members? Would you feel like being nice to them or making concessions? How long would you turn the other cheek?) I was actually very disturbed this morning when I read that Israel intends to invest tens of millions into the remaining West Bank settlements. I know that some of the West Bank needs to remain with Israel for security purposes but it is unnecessary to take this action right now. I don't believe that most Israelis support this type of extreme action towards the Palestinians but it is hard to be supportive of them while terrorism is taking place. I hope that Sharon is soon replaced after being indicted for real estate bribery and that his successor is wiser than both Ariel Sharon and George Bush. I feel and hope to G-d that John Kerry will be.

Sharon K

Just superb discussion. The tragedy that is Iraq coupled with the a pending market disaster (thankYOU Joanne!) is a disaster waiting to happen. This from Common Dreams: "The private U.S. economy is so uncompetitive it runs a half trillion dollar a year trade deficit with the rest of the world. And the U.S. lives so far beyond its means it runs a half trillion dollar a year federal budget deficit. It must go, hat in hand, to the rest of the world to borrow these sums, well more than two billion dollars a day. This is hardly a model of economic vibrancy. And the U.S.’s civic culture—what the neo-cons once lauded as “the soft power of ideas”—is now feared and mocked by much of the world, including former allies. And herein lies the danger."

Thank YOU ALL again. I can't say it enough. I just love this site.

Regarding Bush's poll numbers, I just read a WaPo/ABC News poll this morning that indicates the shrub pulling away from Kerry and solidifying his base and attracting some independent voters. Basically, the issue that is driving these voters, according to the pollsters, is the view that shrub can handle the issues surrounding 'terraism'. This DESPITE all the new information that proves he's nothing but a BIG FAT LYING LIAR.

Unbelieveable!!

Now, I don't put much credence in the veracity of the polls for a lot of reasons that have been covered by me and others in the posts here. But the astrology has been absolutely right on target to date about a rise in shrub's popularity.

On another matter, shrub just had a physical exam and was pronounced 'in excellent shape.' I don't believe the public would be told the truth about a medical condition, but I don't think he's ill physically - just mentally. So, I wouldn't put much store in Joyce's reading.

What I find alarming is how ho hum the administration is taking all the crap falling out of the closets.

Am I the only one who feels that all these 'revelations' about what shrub and co. knew/planned prior to 9-11 and Iraq are just a little bit suspicious? The administration vetted every tell-all book before their public release. They've been planning for the fallout all along. Are these books a method of providing the cartel 'limited hangout'? The uproar will have subsided before the elections and since there appears to be no Congressional concern about the misappropriation of taxpaper funds, together with all the other lies and obfuscations by them, makes me think absolutely NOTHING is going to happen to this bunch before the election. Now shrub is prancing around the country talking up the Patriot Act and how 'beneficial' and necessary it is on fighting terra and how it needs to be extended.

Look out guys, these abominations have big plans for the sheeple.

Just to make sure I wasn't misunderstood, I haven't given up on Kerry. He has my vote. I just wish somehow a fire could be lit up under him. Where is that 1st house Sun? That 10th house Neptune? That vision has to be there somewhere.

I so appreciated the fact that at least listening to Kerry, I was listening to an adult. But I hated to see him step away from his position in the 70's. If ever there was a "War is Hell" moment, that was it, spoken by someone who'd been there, done that. I am so tired of the faux patriotism expressed by these holier than thou Chicken Hawks that dominate the air waves and our government.

Then I watch Woodward on 60 Minutes and have a meltdown over the higher father statement. Now I read Osama may be declaring he's the Mahdi.
http://stariq.com/Main/Articles/P0005323.HTM

If I don't laugh, I'll cry.

with Saturn in the 12th rulling the 6th, then illness might well be in the nature of bone problems. Saturn rules the bones, bone marrow, tendons, joints,spleen, etc.

Cancer on the 12 and Saturn on the 12, could we say bone cancer? The cusp is 6 37, possibly the beginning. Then when Saturn reaches the Sun (vitality), he would be at a low ebb physically. Saturn crossed the 12 house cusp the end of March.

http://www.newyorkmetro.com/nymetro/news/people/columns/intelligencer/n_10245/
Second item. You'll love it.

Miss Tery you mean this one?

Political Conversation: Condi’s Slip
A pressing issue of dinner-party etiquette is vexing Washington, according to a story now making the D.C. rounds: How should you react when your guest, in this case national-security adviser Condoleezza Rice, makes a poignant faux pas? At a recent dinner party hosted by New York Times D.C. bureau chief Philip Taubman and his wife, Times reporter Felicity Barringer, and attended by Arthur Sulzberger Jr., Maureen Dowd, Steven Weisman, and Elisabeth Bumiller, Rice was reportedly overheard saying, “As I was telling my husb—” and then stopping herself abruptly, before saying, “As I was telling President Bush.” Jaws dropped, but a guest says the slip by the unmarried politician, who spends weekends with the president and his wife, seemed more psychologically telling than incriminating. Nobody thinks Bush and Rice are actually an item. A National Security Council spokesman laughed and said, “No comment.”

Big Freudian slip. How embarassing for the spinster.

Susan, my paranoid mind has thought all these books and the fact that this administration vetted them in advance so why are they letting them through, it all smells pretty bad to me.

That is really weird. I could understand the slip if she was married, but that she would say that and not even have a husband??

Regarding Nader...what I was trying to say, is that with Kerry's promise to "stay the course" and send more troops to Iraq, and his recent endorsement of Sharon's course, there very definitely is a need for someone like Nader to run on a different message. I don't know if its an ego driven thing or what (I can't imagine what makes the guy tick) but what he says is something that needs to be heard in this country.

I wouldn't encourage anyone to vote for Nader in a swing state where the vote is close. But if the vote were held today I would vote for him, but then I am back in the position of being able to cast my vote when the election has already been called--a situation that allows me to vote my conscience and not ABB.

But if Kerry is going to continue to move to the right then somebody sure needs to stand up on the left and make a little noise.

I wonder if Iraq will be the undoing not only of Bush but also of Kerry--thus bringing about the circumstances you suggest, Sally?

Its certainly hard to imagine as dramatic a turn of events as an election without either Bush or Kerry on the ballot, but then again by fall we might be living in a very different world.

Amazing article and commentary. You are all rockin' and rollin' and I get so inspired when I come here and read.

Even if Nader was elected President he'd still have to deal with a government filled with Democrats and Republicans, both of whom hate him for their own reasons. Nader would never be able to pass one piece of legislation as President. He would be able to accomplish nothing because he has no support structure from anyone in the government! Think about it! Nader would make the statement that a 2 party system sucks and then he'd be on a speedy track to impeachment or whatever because we'd be looking at 4 years of utter stagnation at the highest levels of government. Congress would keep slamming him and slamming him and slamming him. Because they hate him. They would pass legistlation they knew he'd have no choice but to veto and make impossible requests and demands of him. Because they hate him. Pardon my language, but Congress would be endlessly busting his balls to the point where he'd be able to accomplish NOTHING.

Is that what we need right now?

I've had to adopt the perspective that anyone who supports Nader is simply, very, very uninformed about what's going on (that's NOT to slam anyone here, but I've been busy trying to convince certain swing voters that a vote for Nader is a vote for Bu$h and it's frustrating because they seem to have lead shielding in their foreheads.)

As far as Kerry goes ~ consider what he did in the primaries. I liked Dean and Clark, m'self and oh man I hated Kerry in the primaries. But the ju-jitsu Kerry was able to pull off in the end shocked me and now he's the coveted Democratic party candidate. I have to admit, it gave me some respect for him to come from behind and place the knock-out punch (or at the very least seize the opportunities that were there.)

Kerry is playing a game (unfortunately, that's what it is) and he's gambling on becoming the next President. These are uncertain times. Nothing like this has ever been seen on the face of the earth. You've got one party that is filled with a gang of thieves and mafiosos (that would be the REPUBLICAN party) and they are trying to rig the vote using Diebold, steal all the limited fossil fuel resources in the ME using the military, keep the public unaware using the Media (thankfully the media is starting to smell blood in the water and that blood tastes like a Bu$h) meanwhile keeping very sensitive and likely-to-turn-sour any second world shaking business deals with House of Saud as far away from the minds of Americans as possible. They are doing this with the aid of the slickest brain-washing media saturation and advertising ever developed in the history of man. Really let that sink in for a minute.

Kerry is playing his cards against his chest. And I don't blame him. It's a long road to November. He appeared down and out during the primaries and he came out of nowhere with a winning blow. Keep your bridges open, because it's quite possible that John Kerry is going to be rocking and rolling himself and light a fire under your passions that wake you up and make a real difference in the course of this country. It sounds ludicrous now, but in boxing they say:

You never see it coming ~ the punch that knocks you out.

Kerry knows this. And he's winding up to knock Dimson out of the ring. Personally, I hope the entire neo-conservative philosophy is set back 10 generations. They have earned the contempt and loathing of the entire human race for as long as our collective unconscious can hold a bitter place in it's heart for such creatures as these. They're monsters - every single one of them. Human beings filled with such greed, contempt and loathing they are distorted parodies of humanity. They are self-destructing and all it should take is one good kick to send them scurrying over the edge into oblivion. Cut John Kerry a break. He's aiming the boot and watching the clock until it will kick them the farthest.

~D

Voters have a short memory... at least that's what this administration is counting on... let it all fall now and six months from now nobody will be talking about it...

So far though, they have miscalculated everything and chances are they'll be wrong on this... bad news is hard to accept --- really bad news even harder... many voters are grieving --- over loss of image they held of this president... think back to how we felt in 2000 when the five crows in black selected Dubya... the first step in grief process is denial and shock... then anger... bargaining... guilt... depression... lonliness... acceptance and finally hope.

The drip, drip of bad news, day in and day out... FT.com states that interest rates will begin rising ... http://news.ft.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=FT.com/StoryFT/FullStory&c=StoryFT&cid=1079420420059&p=1012571727143

US stocks flat today awaiting market reaction to Greenspan's coming statement ... controls to ensure Dubya's election are bursting at the seams!

Now that's one bit of bad news the voters will hear... the economy... and the rising price of gas... going to be a hot summer... this is Dubya's last chance to strut and crow in the barnyard... what's so great about an incumbent hovering under 50% six months from the election anyway! Kerry has been watching this pResident self-destruct, and he's survived Dubya's $40M ad blitz... his numbers will go up when his ads start running, but why should he spend money on ads when each day brings a new revelation about this corrupt administration? Just watch the train wreck...

Class warfare, and how.
From Working Families email of today (4/20/04)

Dear Working Families e-Activist:

Today is a tragic day, although you wouldn't know it from reading your newspaper. Last night after most offices in Washington closed, the Bush administration announced it would finalize and issue the regulations to take away overtime pay from millions of America's workers. Now, the White House spin machine is working overtime to make this paycheck attack sound like a good thing for workers.

Don't be fooled!

George W. Bush is now the first president in U.S. history to rewrite the overtime eligibility rules to take away workers' overtime pay.

He needs to feel the heat! Please act today: Send a letter to President Bush now by clicking on the link below. We'll deliver your letter via fax with a copy to your U.S. senators. Tell Bush what you think. Or, keep reading.
http://www.unionvoice.org/campaign/stopbush4otpay/

Already the Bush administration is feeling pressure. So they've launched an aggressive campaign to mislead the media and the American people about the overtime pay take-away.

Ignoring the protests of millions of working families and defying the wishes of Congress, President Bush moved forward with this pay cut.

In its own words, the Bush administration has said that only workers earning less than $23,660 a year would be guaranteed the right to overtime pay. Everybody earning more than that amount could be caught up in the range of other changes to eligibility rules that take away overtime pay. And workers earning less than that amount won't exactly be helped--many of them already get overtime pay!

We've got to make our voices heard now to counter these misleading statements, which are bombarding media coverage. Here are two things you can do today to make a difference.

1. Fax President Bush and your senators by clicking on the link below. The U.S. Senate could still act to protect overtime pay.
http://www.unionvoice.org/campaign/stopbush4otpay/

2. After you act, please tell your friends, family and co-workers what is going on by forwarding this e-mail.

Even if you don't get overtime pay already, you can help. Do you know somebody who earns overtime pay? It is important that more people know President Bush might cut their paychecks. Please click on the link below to spread the word to your friends, family and co-workers.
http://www.unionvoice.org/campaign/stopbush4otpay/forward/

Thanks for all you do. Look for more soon, including a review of the final changes and how they might affect you.

In Solidarity,

Working Families e-Activist Network, AFL-CIO
April 20, 2004

P.S. Don't forget: You can still contribute to fund TV ads to save overtime pay.

Sally: I understand all the recent tell-all books have been "vetted" by the Whitehouse only for national security purposes and not for their content. I heard this very recently and would have been from a reputable source such as "On the Media" NPR, or "Counter-Spin" produced by watchdog group "FAIR". Our local NPR carries both these weekly programs. You can access both on the internet with real player in addition to their archives. I highly recommend both of them especially "Counter-Spin" as they go behind the media and expose unthruth. They have top of the line quests.
Jo: Counter-Spin is having a little problem with Jim Lerher also. Last Friday, they included in their 5 minute look back at the main stream media his contradiction on U.S. ing the Iraqi broadcaster. They pointed out his inconsistencies. Was interesting to see your comments on this after hearing the program last Friday.
I am completely baffled by Elizabeth Joyce's predictions. Compare this with her current predictions.
Read : www.aquarius-atlanta.com/jan04/predict5.shtml She talks about Wesley Clark becoming our President in 2004 and that Bush will try to run again in 2008?????, and more. I know that predictions can change, but this is going from one extreme to another, is it not? Does my previous post 4-19-04 about 5th house children (our soldiers) merit any consideration? Yes or no and I will stop harping about it.

Sally: I understand all the recent tell-all books have been "vetted" by the Whitehouse only for national security purposes and not for their content. I heard this very recently and would have been from a reputable source such as "On the Media" NPR, or "Counter-Spin" produced by watchdog group "FAIR". Our local NPR carries both these weekly programs. You can access both on the internet with real player in addition to their archives. I highly recommend both of them especially "Counter-Spin" as they go behind the media and expose unthruth. They have top of the line quests.
Jo: Counter-Spin is having a little problem with Jim Lerher also. Last Friday, they included in their 5 minute look back at the main stream media his contradiction on U.S. ing the Iraqi broadcaster. They pointed out his inconsistencies. Was interesting to see your comments on this after hearing the program last Friday.
I am completely baffled by Elizabeth Joyce's predictions. Compare this with her current predictions.
Read : www.aquarius-atlanta.com/jan04/predict5.shtml She talks about Wesley Clark becoming our President in 2004 and that Bush will try to run again in 2008?????, and more. I know that predictions can change, but this is going from one extreme to another, is it not? Does my previous post 4-19-04 about 5th house children (our soldiers) merit any consideration? Yes or no and I will stop harping about it.

Sorry about the double post - must have clicked something twice.
Also wanted to add that E. Joyce mentioned Rudy G. as a possible replacement candidate for Bush this year. Unbelievable to me due to his womanizing. I would think they would try to get around the "citizen thing" and put up Arnold Swg.
Wouldn't that be scarry? Would like to hear anyone's comments on any of this.

hey timothy..i'm w/you, i understand..

jonathan, it's the hypocrite who votes for a guy who voted for the war.

dom, nader is the only who knows what's going on.

i mean i'm sure kerry does, but y'know he plays the game, he is a politician.

our only hope is for brave libs like michael moore to tell kerry he will back him if he outs bush on every single front from the bin laden family ties to telling the people the 'insurgents' are just the 'people' of iraq...etc..it is NOT ENOUGH for kerry to be elected, he must be really forced into doing the right thing, if he wants the crown.

hagel of nebraska is getting america use to the idea of the draft today...says we should all go in and play our part..this country gets scarier every day...thank god that the gop is going down astrologically and kerry will win.

bush to me is definitely mentally sick..he really is like a david koresh.."we'll all be dead." ok.

democrats.com just posted this. Cheer up, y'all.
http://www.pollingreport.com/wh04gen.htm

I seriously doubt too many of those who cast their vote for Nader really thought he ever would be President. That's not the reason one votes for someone like Nader.

If Kerry is playing his cards close to his chest then maybe he is making the same mistake as Gore.

Israel's recent assasinations have been condemned all around the world and yet Kerry endorses Bush's support for them? That's playing one's cards close to one's chest? Do you mean he really would rather not endorse the Israeli assasinations but instead he is going to hold this one tightly to his chest and tell the world the opposite of what he really thinks?

Kerry thinks we should "stay the course" and send more troops to Iraq. But this is not really what he thinks, he's "playing his cards against his chest" and not letting the American people see where he really stands?

How many more lives are going to be lost before America wakes up and realizes there really is no course to stay? The Iraq war is more than just a mistake, a miscalculation based on faulty intelligence. We all know the war was the product of a deliberate deception of the American people. Now that it appears so clearly that Iraq was not an imminent threat, and thus the war cannot be justified as an act of self-defense, they still want us to believe it was justified to topple the evil Saddam and bring "freedom and democracy" to Iraq. This is just more of the deliberate deception. If it was not an act of self-defense, then it is a war of aggression--and a war of aggression is explicitly a "war crime" according to the UN Charter and the Charter of the Nuremberg War Crimes trials. The Iraqi people don't seem to be exactly overjoyed and thankful to us for bringing them "freedom and democracy." Perhaps the building of 14 permanent US military bases in the country, the restrictions on truly democratic elections and the appointment of a puppet regime to ensure US control of oil resources has something to do with it--that's not to mention, of course, the brutal slaughter of a civilian population.

Did Kerry really learn the lesson of Vietnam? I can't really tell anymore cause he's got his cards too close to his chest.

They say we got to stay the course cause "we broke it, we bought it" or something to that effect. If we stay we're only going to break it even more and surely get broken in return as well. They say we have the responsiblity to stay in order to prevent civil war and chaos. It seems to me that we are bringing the war and chaos.

As a nation we are going to have to admit this war was wrong sooner or later. If we are ever going to have the possibility of a world at peace governed by civil laws, then the powerful have to clearly repudiate the "might makes right" ideology. By "staying the course" there is no acknowledgment that the course was wrong to start with. "Staying the course" only forestalls the inevitable. It really is a lot like Vietnam. How many more lives?

I'm glad at least Nader is putting his cards on the table.

A fair assessment, Roxanne. Rockin' and rollin.'

~D

***
I seriously doubt too many of those who cast their vote for Nader really thought he ever would be President. That's not the reason one votes for someone like Nader.
***

As I said, I've been dealing with people with lead shielding in their heads. Nobody posting here has this problem. In fact,

***
If Kerry is playing his cards close to his chest then maybe he is making the same mistake as Gore...Did Kerry really learn the lesson of Vietnam? I can't really tell anymore cause he's got his cards too close to his chest.

***

I agree with that. I have no doubt that Kerry is going to step in and use every bit of this to oust Bu$h. I'm also sure he's going to wait until the last, safest, most opportune moment to do so. Aaaaargh!!! Politicians. Give me Angry Howard. Or even Nader. It's quite possible that all of the assessments I've read have tainted me to where I am too poised over the potential damage Nader could do to see the benefits of his presence in the race. If so, it's my blind spot.

I meant no offence, Timothy.

~D

Sharon, I, too, was disappointed that Kerry cleaned up his 70s vocabulary and stated on Meet the Press that "he made mistakes" not "committed atrocities." It is lately being revealed to us that war is a combination of both. Let's not mince words -- war in itself is an atrocity unless it is fought in self-defense. The U.S. was not in Viet Nam for self-defense and, although they may have thought that their battle for oil could be disguised as self-defense against terrorism, it's sure backfiring.

Sharon K

One of the things that transpired during Kerry's appearance on MTP was TR suggested since Bush had released his military records, Kerry should do so. Kerry said he would. Reporter from Boston Globe tried to get them, campaign hdqtrs. said come by and review them, he did and claimed all of records were not there... now Ed Gillespie is all over the place screaming for Kerry's mil records. Markos at Daily Kos has thread up on it, link to yahoo article and broken link to Boston Globe... Kerry needs to release all... I don't know if this is some snafu, some GOP dirty tricks or what... some think it's an attempt to give rightwingers opt to twist the commentary to say that Kerry is hiding something, blah blah

Anybody got anything on this? I know Merc is still Rx but this is ridiculous! Our AWOL president is asking for veteran, purple heart and silver medal candidate to open his records?!

Forgot to post this, also from Kos:

Zogby poll gives Kerry the lead
by kos
Tue Apr 20th, 2004 at 14:23:19 EDT

Zogby. 4/15-17. MoE 3.1%. (4/1-4)
Kerry 47 (47)
Bush 44 (45)
Undecided 7 (6)
Kerry 45 (46)
Bush 45 (45)
Nader 3 (3)
Undecided 6 (5)

This from the Boston Globe according to Kos:

"Kerry has not released the formal evaluations from superior officers, although his campaign has given a letter from a commanding officer that recommended him for service aboard Navy patrol boats and also reports for the Silver and Bronze stars that laud Kerry's actions in combat. By comparison, retired Army General Wesley K. Clark released hundreds of pages of his records during the Democratic primary campaign, including all evaluations of him by his superiors."

From the Globe!! This is the most idiotic comment I have read for a long time. How can Kerry's record be as long as Clark. Kerry was in the Navy for a few years, Clark for more than 30 years!!

If this is the way the Globe is going to write, you can understand why the Kerry campaign is reluctant to release more records to the Globe.

Dear Dommael,

Thank you, tytyty, for your discussion re:Kerry. I have come to the same conclusion. His vote on the war was repellent, and his backing on the Sharon thing is equally so, but if there is to be any hope of his ridding us of the thing in the WH, there are a few constituencies he has to cosset.
Here's a story: Adlai Stevenson once gave a speech on foreign policy so brilliant that at the end a man leapt up and shouted:
Every thinking person in the country will vote for you!"
to which Stevenson replied:
That is too bad, because it's not nearly enough to get elected."

A little machiavellian thinking is in order here. In order to accomplish anything, you first have to get elected, and god knows we've got a weird electorate in this country!

Listen to Dommael, people......he knows whereof he speaks!

Arthur Gianfermo has an interesting article on the eclipse, et al., over on aquasoul (see the right-hand side-bar).

Have any of you been listening to Kerry? It's so refreshing to listen to an adult for once! I saw Nader on CNN and saw the monster ego and the complete absence of any reality. I mean, the guy looks like he's totally out of touch with his rapidly dwindling chances. Even past supporters have hit the road!

Again let me say that if you vote for someone like Nader (who can't even get on the ballot in a place like Oregon right now, so I don't even think he'll be in the race towards the end), you're basically voting for Bush. I guess you can all enjoy your Principles while waiting in Food Lines and looking for work in the ongoing Bush Economy. Don't know why I feel so spirited about this today, but there you go.

People demand much more from politicians than they do themselves. It would be great if we were all as honest as we demand our Representatives be and spoke as clearly and effectively as we, again, demand the Politicians speak. Look at the Posts and you'll see people, those that think anyway, will change their views as more information comes in. But for Kerry to change his view? NEVER! Give me a break. This vote for the war everyone's harping on? Take a look at the culture of the time, take a look at the very limited access to information the Administraton allowed these Senior Senators, look at what they did to someone like Max Cleland who is above all "patriotic" and please go back and actually LOOK at what Kerry voted for: it was an agreement to attack Iraq after ALL OTHER OPTIONS HAD BEEN EXHAUSTED! Will you now hold Kerry responsible for Bush's deceit and murderous impatience?

Again, I don't even think Nader will make it to the Fall. It has nothing to do with his whatever-Party affiliation and everything to do with people seriously looking at their choices and, let's face it, voting with their ever-dwindling pocketbooks.

Jonathan

Beverly, while the 5th house represents children, it's the 6th house that represents the military. The people in the military are not recognized as "children" in this country, only by parents. So the 5th house does not apply. Taurus rules the 5th house in the US Chart and that is ruled by Venus at 3 degrees Cancer. Venus has progressed to 12 degrees Aries and is in a square to the natal US Sun. Aries is of course a "war" sign and is ruled by Mars. It is not out of the question that the Military will revolt. By progression the US Venus and Mars are now in Mutual Reception (Mars in Libra and Venus in Aries)Saturn will square them both.

CNN.com is asking if the Patriot (barf) Act should be renewed.

Sally, Does the 6th house also rule home-grown terrorism? Look at this:

"April 20 — ROME (Reuters) - Italian customs officers seized more than 8,000 Kalashnikov assault rifles and other weapons on a ship headed to the United States, officials said Tuesday. The arms, worth about $7.15 million, were discovered aboard a ship arriving from Romania that pulled into the southern Italian port of Gioia Tauro on its way to the United States, Italy's customs said in a statement.
According to the travel documents, the arms belong to a large U.S. company with headquarters in the state of Georgia."
http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/reuters20040420_153.html

What chances has Nader got? Absolutely none! Your missing the point if you think support for Nader has anything to do with his chances.

Has anyone on this thread advocated casting a deciding vote for Nader? I haven't seen anything like that. All I have been saying is that Nader has a legimiate place in the current campaign if Kerry continues to pretend to be Bush Lite.

I haven't been advocating voting for Nader. I've been trying to point out that Kerry's recent statements are a serious problem. This essay articulates that problem:
http://www.counterpunch.org/lindorff04202004.html

Again I ask if you're even LISTENING to Kerry? Is it being Bush Lite to call this Administration on the carpet time and again for their lies, failed policies, unwillingness to work with the other party or even other countries? Kerry is NOT Bush Lite!

Of course, that's only my opinion and everyone is entitled to their own. But next time try to listen to Kerry, really LISTEN to what he's saying, and not through a prism of expectation but rather discovery. You might find he's not Bush Lite.

Jonathan

But the children...............
Today was the 5th anniversary of Columbine!
While our minds have been otherwise occupied............ the murder rate in schools has risen quite a bit this year after dropping in 2000, & 2001. The teachers are too occupied with prepping the kids for tests.....and the feds dropped the budget for safety from $180,000. to 59.??? ( school guards etc.)
It doesn't help that our Commander in Chief models an example of toughness & violence!
( Peter Jennings Nightly news ABC) The toxic atmosphere of our country would be hard on those kids who are at risk!

On Kerry; My fellow Dean Delegate has been outraged since Kerry's appearance on Meet the Press Sun. at his stance on Sharon & Isreal. She voted for Nader in 2000. (But has made up for it with her tireless political activism this year.)
To find out what he was thinking I called 3 of his offices today.
Very interesting....................................
In Boston, a Kerry aid, Hamid, ( a Saudi,) wasn't happy about it either, & was organizing a group protesting that stance. In DC Nilda, ( sounded Bulgarian; I thought I was watching Whoopi)
had taken 3 phone calls about it in the last hour. She explained to me that he wasn't in support of Sharon, he is deliberating how to handle the issue, what to say...................
I urged her to push him to deal with it sooner rather than later, or he was going to lose us!
She reassured me that there were a lot of Deaniacs working on Kerry's campaign.
If anyone would like to call the number is (202)-712-3000.
Pat QOP

The more important point I was trying to make is about the war. Sooner or later the United States is going to have to withdraw and admit the whole thing was wrong. If Kerry remains on the wrong side of this it will not be too surprising to me if he is not on the ballot come November.

I suppose my problem is that I've been listening to Kerry too much. Did he or did he not say we have to "stay the course in Iraq" and he will send more troops if that is what it takes? Didn't he say that? Who isn't listening here?

Did he or did he not just endorse Bush's endorsement of Israel's recent assasinations and repudiation of the peace process?

Maybe its Kerry that needs to do some listening--and that is exactly why it is a good thing Nader continues to have a voice.

Thanks for the post and the number, Pat.

Jonathan, I agree with you. And to add my two cents, John Kerry is not yet the "official" nominee. I think he should tread carefully right now. Once the convention is over, he should cut loose. A lot also will depend on who he chooses for a running mate. I like Kerry and I understand the Moon-Saturn conjunction more than you know. It's difficult for him to open up. He needs someone running with him who can bring out the best in him and fire up the campaign. For myself, I wish it could be John Edwards but astrologically it's probably not a good match.

Teresa, Is Graham a better match astrologically? Thanks.

Miss Tery, The 4th house would rule homegrown terrorism. You would look at the 4th, the 6th (because they consider themselves to be soldiers) and the 8th violence. In the US chart (Silby) Aries rules the 4th and of course that is Mars. I think "homegrown" terrorism is possible if not probable. The only thing is astrology would not be able to tell the difference between terrorism here at home and homegrown terrorists. The Solar Arc Moon in the US chart has progressed to a square to the US Sun, that would give a bit more emphasis and weight toward 'homegrown' terrorism

Miss Tery, I don't have Graham's chart. Perhaps one of the more experienced astrologers can answer your question (hint).

Timothy,
You sound very frustrated... politics can be that sometimes... this election is more than six months away... Iraq is a powder keg about to erupt... the 'coalition of the shilling/billing' is unraveling... our troops are insufficient... there are not enough boots on the ground... Rummy stopped some returns to the states virtually at the airports... their supplies were turned over to incoming and their clothes were shipped home... they are in Kuiwait in crowded area, having to buy uniforms etc. with their own money... Dubya is forcing Blair to send more troops... and he is getting 75,000 more mercenaries, bulk from So. Africa (guess where money for that is coming from?)... our troops are running low on rations as the insurgents have cut supply lines... can you here me? there is a possibility our people will be overrun if there is a massive uprising... today ends the holy observance by the insurgents... tomorrow?

Given all the above, John Kerry cannot possibly appear to be critical of Bush's stance on the war at this time without the 'patriots' in this country tearing him from limb to limb... what I heard Kerry say is that he believes someone new, someone else could persuade other nations to come in and help secure Iraq so that the elections could go forward. There is NO way he can advocate pulling out NOW without being criticized for putting our troops in harms way... his candidacy would be DOA... Bush is already parroting the Demos call to get the UN in... 'course we know he won't turn control over (and lose control of the oil? Never!) to the UN... this war is an utter failure... next couple of days/weeks are critical to averting slaughter of Iraqis and increased casualties of troops... this is not the time for Kerry to be criticizing Bush's stance on Iraq or laying his own out... and the war in Iraq ties in with the Israel/Palestine situation... Bush's gift to Sharon was like gasoline on the situation in Iraq... there's time for Kerry to scream and shout but I don't believe this is the time... I want our troops home... but not in body bags... I want them safe... just give this situation time to cool down ... cut Kerry some slack for a little while... Peace

The people I hang out with, Jo, all live sustainably. No debt, bartering, etc., except for the dailies like rent. Two years ago, I closed my acct at American Airlines Cr Union. I've never been a team-player with the national economy. However, two dear friends are still spending like the economy will always support them.

Further info was given by another friend.

"Blogger WShoots: I agree. Assuming you owe on both, my recommendation is to first pay off credit card debt asap & then your home, if you are buying one. The rest don't matter. If you lose your nice car(s), cheap transportation that will pass inspection is always available. (Make sure it has a new inspection sticker when you buy it.) Most, if not all, states have homestead laws that will protect you from loss of a paid for home. Any unpaid property taxes will just accrue & only need to be paid--1st--when you sell your home.

Remember: Besides those who lost their homes during the Great Depression, those who lost their farms then also owed on their farms. The Dust Bowl survivors were those who owned their farm lock, livestock, & rain barrel. They were able to survive on their farms by planting gardens & waiting out the bad times. Their water wells provided the one natural essential for life for both fauna & flora. And if something miraculous saves the economic day, your efforts to get out of debt won't be wasted. You will be FREE. You will no longer be a slave to the system.

3. The svgs rate in America is almost nil. (Don Stacey) The reason for that is that in the 1960s, I recall, the IRS began taxing the, int earned on personal svgs, even passbook svgs. That discouraged my children from svg, esp since inflation even devalued their principals. The US is the only industrial nation that taxes interest earned on personal svgs. - Good luck!

Are we to abandon Iraq to al Qaeda and leave the World with a mess WE'VE single handedly created? No! We need to bring the UN, other countries and their troops and bring stability to those people whose only guilt was living in Iraq. That's what responsible countries and leaders do.

I don't know what to make of Kerry's Israel statement. I do feel sure, though, that he will clarify it in the days and weeks to come.

I agree that it's a good thing that Nader continues to have a voice. The louder he speaks, the more people realize what a nut job he is, how important their vote then is, and will then carefully cast their vote for Kerry to make sure Nader doesn't get NEAR the "seat of power."

Again, if Nader can't even get on the ballot in Oregon, then he's obviously got some major problems. And what's with this sweetheart renting deal his campaign office has with his not-for-profit organization? Perhaps Nader's just as much a "politician" as the rest of them?

Jonathan

Oh, and Jo, the 1st paragraph were my words. ;O)

We can't worry about those improved Bush polls. They will continue through the third week of May, while Jupiter is stationary on Bush's Mars/prog Sun. This is also making him Mr. War Leader and very aggressive. Once Saturn hits in June, everything will start to stick. No more teflon.

There is not a whole lot going on in Kerry's chart right now. Uranus is square Uranus and probably quincunx the MC, bringing some sudden zingers. But I don't see anything that drags him down or anything that pulls him up. Kind of treading water for a while. Interestingly, as Saturn heats up on Bush in early June, Kerry gets aggressive (Jupiter square his Mars). This would be 5/27 to 6/8. I think Kerry's appeal will grow after the Convention. The only times I see any pockets of trouble are these: 7/7 to 7/23 (con prog Moon square con prog Saturn and Saturn quincunx Sun) and 9/11 to 10/5 (con prog Moon square natal Saturn). I think these little pockets may be scary to us. He may lose some steam, but then he comes back very strong in October with enough Venus appeal to carry him, I think.

This war scares me to death. Not only are our troops fighting and dying because the man who claimed the presidency lied about the reasons for the war but also because of the possible (probable?) escalation. Up until a week ago, my 21-year-old nephew was scheduled to ship to Guam for 6 months. His unit was issued desert gear but not told that their deployment had changed. We have not heard from Joshua so we don't know if he is in Guam or Iraq. I've tried looking at his birth chart but without a birth time I can't really tell anything and I have difficulty reading charts of people close to me. So this uncertainty is driving us all crazy. My sister keeps asking if I can "see" anything in his chart but I can't tell her anything. Joshua enlisted two months after the beginning of the war so we all knew there was a possibility that he would be sent over. But knowing mentally is not the same as knowing emotionally. My one hope is that the fact he is in the navy will keep him a little safer and that this tragedy of a war will end one way or another.

Joanna,
Thank you for your post... I've told my daughter and her husband to get prepared... my son-in-law who is extremely bright about most things simply cannot accept that the 'dollar' might crash... nor does he actually understand the 'housing bubble' that is about to burst... I live in the woods so there's plenty of room for them if need arises... its tough to think about... just the coming increase in interest rates will put considerable strain on most families... and will bring about other problems.

I realized after I sent the second post, that the first part of your post was you speaking... thanks for the information... peace

Teresa,
I send my light to you and your nephew... may he come home safely... peace

Timothy,
I hope you don't feel Jonathan and I were piling up on you... I got a little carried away with my long post... most of all, I wanted to let you know that I share your frustration... peace

I second that thought, Timothy. You and I may disagree, but that doesn't mean either one of us is "right" or "wrong". We just have different viewpoints. And our strength as individuals comes from seeking to understand opinions that are 180 degrees from where our intuition originally takes us.

Hope that made sense.

Jonathan

Timothy, I registered at John Kerry's blog the other night. It was tough because they made me sign an electronic waiver basically announcing that I wouldn't say anything interesting. But I did it anyway. It's a really dull looking website. You should definitely go over there and talk to them. You're the first sane Naderite I've met!

~D

Bush, God, Armageddon and Rapturous Nudists:
http://www.smirkingchimp.com/article.php?sid=15846&mode=nested&order=0

Teresa, doesn't your sister have your nephew's birth time? If you will post his birthdate I will take a look at it for you and perhaps your sister can remember an approximate time for him.

If you ever wondered just how much we are manipulated by the spin doctors, read this from The Democratic Underground and be sure and note the author.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/articles/04/04/20_soldier.html

I certainly don't take any offense at the good discussion going on here. I appreciate very much the opportunity to share my thoughts with all of you. Jonathan, I'm sure we agree on much more than we disagree.

I'm only frustrated that so many of my fellow citizens do not yet quite grasp just how wrong this war is. Until there can be a full acknowledgement of how wrong this is, our continued presence in Iraq will only make things worse. Its good then that we have those like Nader and Daniel Ellsberg calling for the withdrawal of our troops.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0420-04.htm

Timothy,
This links to opinion of one of those 'intellectual elites' Dubya frequently derides... it addresses the frustration we are all feeling, and gives insight into the future... one strong message I would like to articulate here is that yes, we do need to leave Iraq as occupiers... but as Jonathan states we have a moral responsibility to help Iraqis rebuild what Dubya has broken... with our $$... the $87 b we gave Dubya for rebuilding? it's paying for mercenaries to protect the hides of workers from Halliburton, etc., who also rec'd a large portion of that money to render shoddy construction of classrooms, etc. Yeah, they hate us 'cause we're free all right! Now they're out of money and short on troops. An ironic note here: the Neocon planners of this invasion as the beginning of decades of war, are now CRITICIZING this admin for not doing the job correctly... the rats are leaving (ship's sinking?)...

Anyway, we're moving up on to the 23/24 - 27th and it appears our wonderful astrologers are right on the money about tPluto... there's violence building big time in ME... light to all in these volatile times...

http://www.agonist.org/archives/015242.html#015242

Jo, thank you.

Sally, Joshua's birthdate is 9/9/82 in Kansas City, MO. He is my sister's stepson and for some reason his birth certificate does not have a time on it. I've been trying to get my brother-in-law to call his ex and get the time because I assume she would remember it. The best I've been able to get out of my brother-in-law is "sometime in the morning" or "maybe between 3 and 6 in the afternoon." Thank you.

P.S. to above: I meant to include this link to "Marketplace" report on corruption

http://marketplace.publicradio.org/features/iraq/index.html

Ques: how did the $89 b get reduced to $22 b in articles here... or was that an additional appropriation... sorry, all the money flowing from our treasury I can't keep up... you know 'The Black Commentator' calls Bush and his ilk PIRATES... pretty much on the money, don't you think? again, WHY is mainstream so quiet about all this...? or they in on the money?

TNeptune in nUSA 3rd house, communications... hasn't been there long...

Sally, is the media in a fog? if so, this transit will last years, right? And tMars conj Bush's nUranus right now... Lord help us...

April 29th is the date King George and Uncle Dick, holding hands no doubt, speak with the 9/11 Commission. No time of day, that I could see, was posted in the article.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=584&e=1&u=/nm/20040421/pl_nm/security_bush_dc

This is off topic, but earlier in the postings of this article - or perhaps on the piece titled The Two Elephants, someone who said she lived in central Illinois had remarked that her blind and deaf dog had been acting skittishly over the past weekend. This morning I heard on the news that a tornado touched down and did significant damage in (I think) central Illinois.

Has anyone else heard about this? Just wondering if the lady was near this or affected in some way and if everything is ok.

Susan,
That was Peg who posted about her dog, on the 18th...

----------------------

Re Laurie's post above on date for Bush/Cheney to appear before the 9-11 Commission... the full Commission will go to the White House (psychologically puts Bush/Cheney at an advantage right away, as it's on their turf, so to speak)

April 29th, tMercury is still Rx, at 21 degrees Aries 9 - goes D May 1st according to Swiss Ephemeris ... strange that the Commission's own website has not posted date and time, as of a few mins ago ... and I can't get Reuters.com to come up... site must have lots of traffic...

Sun at 9 degrees Taurus that day, round up to next degree, sabian symbol for 10 degrees Taurus:

*** TAURUS 10 ***
A RED CROSS NURSE.

There is lot to do, but you are going to have to give to those needing help first. There is a great deal of inner healing achieved when helping others. But, perhaps, you have to do too much? You may have to cross over into the `dark side' in order to bring light to the situation. Compassionate understanding and caring. Breaking down the borders between one's self and others. If negative - `fussing' and doing more than one needs to.

---------------------

tMoon that day is in Virgo...

I have no more to offer on this... need some insight from one of our wonderful astrologers...
please --- 'course we all know that they will have a wonderful friendly visit, with Dubya affirming everything Cheney the mouth says... and the members of the Commission will be so thrilled to be in the White House and in the presence of such greatness, well what can I say?

Peace

Jo thanks for looking at 4/29. I did notice that Merc Rx is opposing Bush's Jupiter/Moon/Chiron and Jupiter is conjunct his Mars; with Cheney Merc Rx trines Mars and squares Venus; the Sun conjuncts Cheney's Jupiter/Saturn and trines the ascendant near 10:00 a.m.

I think an overall pleasant day for Cheney and maybe a bit confusing for Bush. I'm thinking Bush may say too much also. However, I'm only a novice and would also like to see what Sally or Nancy or Morgana think of this day and its relation to Bush and Cheney. Could make an excellent article, especially if we could find out what time exactly they start.

Hiya Jo, I ran a chart for 9:30 AM on 4/29/2004 - I'm sure we'll get a more accurate time soon. IN the meantime, in addition to what you have pointed out, T Pluto is 21 Sag 55, is forming a conjunction with George's natal South Node in the 5th house (karma), the T. Sun at that early hour is in his 10th house forming a conjunction with the T. Lunar South node (more karma). T Mercury Rx is forming an oppositio with his natal Jupiter which may broaden or expand the effects of T. Mercury Rx (or sticking his foot in it really good, despite the puppet master Cheney holding his hand). T. Uranus is also forming an inconjunct (trigger) with is MC. Not going to be a good day for the Bush/Cheney tag team. T. Uranus is also forming an opposition with Jorges natal Mars, might be he'll be losing his temper and cookies in the process. Should be fun, too bad we can't watch!
I suspect when we have an event time we'll be able to fine tune our charts.
btw Poland is talking about bailing out of Iraq. And they say the Coalition is Not crumbling, right, these guys are really deluded.
I don't spend much time looking at George, as little as possible really, so I am looking forward to Sally and Nancy's take on the pResident.

SALLY: Thank you for the thoughtful and detailed message about the 5th house "children" issue. It helps clarify the questions I had difficulty forming in my mind. SUSAN: I throughly enjoyed the comments on the animal behaviors. NPR reported on national news this am. 4 deaths in Utica, Illinois, 3 were found in the basement of a restaurant. Perhaps Peg will be back soon to post.

Thanks Laurie,
Thanks Morgana --- so good to know there's some karma coming down! on the dynamic duo! And good ol' Jupiter will expand the happenings... yes, in deed, the times they are achanging... Miss Sally, has the earth moved yet (from under the Pirates' feet, that is!) There's a new buzz going 'round bout those missing pages in the PDB of Aug 6... first buzz is ol' Geo who would rather go fishing than read, may not have even read the PDB when it was delivered, or the entire month of August ---
how 'bout the 50+ % of Americans that think they are safer with the shrub in the White House... what do you think they'll say about this? Keep on driving their pick 'em ups!? waiting for the rapture? Well, some of us are tired of having a lazy uninformed dry drunk in the White House ... one way bus ticket to Crawford is only $167.00 -- shoot, I'd spring for Laura, but he can walk back... all the way...

See this article at antiwar for the "buzz" --- Condi says Dubya was tired of swatting flies... buzz, buzz, they're back Dubya, get your swatter out!

http://www.antiwar.com/orig/rothschild.php?articleid=2342

Then contact Commissioner Richard Ben-Veniste
Commissioner info@9-11Commission.gov

and tell him Bush Admin needs to declassify the remaining pages, or at least the next page, so that we can see what follows the last paragraph of the redacted PDB...

Thanks again Morgana for the analysis... peace

Excerpt: New York Time Editorial

At least the media is starting to critize Powell. . .What a big phony disgrace

We seem to have once again with Mr. Powell is a desire to have it both ways, to be seen as a loyal member of the Bush team, but also as a wise man who knew all along that the Iraq war would be a mistake. If the Woodward version is correct, Mr. Powell should have spoken up more than a year ago. He had, in a way, prepared all his life to oppose the Iraq policy. Like most soldiers, he'd always been reluctant to go to war, and the doctrine that bears his name is one that aims to restrict the country from any foreign adventure taken without overwhelming commitment — say, by an administration that was planning to launch an invasion and cut taxes at the same time.

Mr. Powell, who apprenticed in the vicious parlor wars of the Reagan White House, has always played the spin game well. If the Woodward book is the version of inside-the-White-House history that Mr. Powell wanted people to believe, it has done nothing to burnish his reputation. Knowing that Mr. Powell thought the invasion was a bad idea doesn't make him look better — it makes his inaction puzzling and disappointing. It's an article of faith in Washington that Mr. Powell would not serve in a second Bush administration. The lasting impression may be this sense of disappointment in the secretary he could have been.

KAP,
The editorial is critical... but I don't understand the adulation of this man... he goes way back with the Bush family --- may have been with Dubya during the AWOL year... what were they up to... Iran contra schemes? His son Michael is Chairman of FCC, responsible for Clear Channel's control of radio stations - translate GOP control of radio... this family knows what they are about... POWER... The Black Commentator knows him for who he is... the man who called Aristide and told him to leave Haiti... Powell is a Pirate, always was, is now, and will be tomorrow. Period.

peace

I have noticed that Chiron will reach the MC of the Bush Inaugral chart near the end of April, first week of May, then go rx. If you want a real treat go back into the archives on this site and read Nancy's interpretation of the Bush Admininstration. It's dated Sept 28th, 2001 and is called, "An Overview of the Bush Presidency."

There are some great articles here to read. Thankyou!

Powell is a two-faced toady. The thing that surprises me is the fact that shrub and rPresident Cheney haven't called a press conference and announced his 'resignation effective immediately.'

Whatever you think of the current 'gestapo' politics of this administration, as Powell has so affectionately referred to them, it would seem that they would want Powell's head on a plate for his betrayal of them to Woodward. I'm surprised they didn't drop kick his butt out of the West Wing the minute this thing broke.

It doesn't make sense. Why would a group who value loyalty among all else allow this guy to remain on board? Unless, Powell is supposed to be some sort of symbol, making the public think that they can tolerate dissenting opinions, even from key cabinet members, after all. Further, that while Powell may have disagreed with them, he remained 'loyal' and 'steadfast' in his service to the rPresident and the mission at hand. Just like all us good sheeple are supposed to remain loyal and do our patriotic duty even if we don't agree with the politics.

This is becoming psychologically numbing.

Some of us are trying to organize field trips to Ground Zero to join in the protests at the RNC.

Let's get together~

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/viewtopic.php?topic=39477&forum=3

http://news.findlaw.com/legalnews/lit/election2004/docs.html#ltbush

Pat! missed you!
thanks for the link posted... Daily Kos has a huge piece showing the 'comparisons' between the records of the two... bet Ed Gillespie is sorry he asked for Kerry's war records... John Marshall's piece reads:

"I request duty in Vietnam" -- the first line in one of the documents from John Kerry's service records, now posted on the Kerry website.

Kos follows that with"
"So let's recap what we've learned today.
Kerry volunteered to command a river boat in Vietnam. (Link is a PDF)

Bush, on the other hand, explicitly checked the box "Do not volunteer for overseas" on his application for active duty."

---------

Thanks, peace

From the Democratic Underground

Wed Apr-21-04 06:02 PM

Kerry's military records show highly praised officer with unusual abilites

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Records of John Kerry's Vietnam War service released Wednesday show a highly praised naval officer with an Ivy League education who spoke fluent French and had raced sailboats -- the fruits of a privileged upbringing that set him apart from the typical seaman.

With Republicans questioning his service in Vietnam, the Democratic candidate for president posted more than 120 pages of military records on his campaign Web site. Several describe him as a gutsy commander undertaking a dangerous assignment in Vietnam and detail some of the actions that won three Purple Hearts, a Bronze Star and a Silver Star.

Kerry's most harrowing experience came during the nearly five months when he commanded a swiftboat along Vietnam's Mekong Delta. The future Massachusetts senator was commended for gallantry, heroism and valor during the tour, which was cut short when Kerry was wounded three times and sent back to the United States.

Throughout his four years of active duty, Kerry's superiors gave him glowing evaluations, citing his maturity, intelligence and immaculate appearance. He was recommended for early promotion, and when he left the Navy in 1970 to run for Congress, his commanding officer said it was the Navy's loss.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/BreakingNewsStory.asp?y

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Send us an email at mail@DemocraticUnderground.com.

© 2001 - 2004 Democratic Underground, LLC

My favorite quote from today's cable news was "Kerry obviously has something to hide since he is releasing his military records in full." The second was, "Kerry has more at stake since he has made his military record such an issue".

HOW DO YOU LIKE THAT?

Jo, Thanks! I have been so busy and distracted with so much going on here that by the time I have had time to read and post, my brain just wants to rest. Being missed is a very warm fuzzy, and I do thank you for saying so!

Have ya'll seen this Tom Tommorrow cartoon?

This Modern World: A Terrifying Election
http://www.workingforchange.com/comic.cfm?itemid=16710

You gotta check it out!

Namaste,

~D

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/042104_janes_oil_shortage.html
Lemme see:
*We are fighting a war in the ME for oil. We are also stationed in the Caribbean to go to Nicaragua (oil) and Cuba (oil).
*We have oil men running the WH and getting all the buds they can in the judiciary, senate & house. They have the "popular" media in their pocket also.
*We are running out of oil (see article above).
*If we had spent some of what we're spending on war for oil (don't even mention the human costs), we could develop alternate energy to get us off our oil addiction.
*How are they going to have endless war when it takes oil to run all the machinery of war?
Despite the lives wasted and bodies maimed (and who cares about them anyway), the treasuries drained, etc., they will end up owning--nothing! There will be no oil.
If someone would be so kind, please explain the astrology of this to me. Will people wake up to the futility of this wasteful, horrendously painful and, ultimately, useless, exercise in trying to own a rapidly depleting resource before it's too late?
Many thanks. I wish I could say I feel better now. I do appreciate your forbearance.

Alright ya'll I think I've hit a Consciousness breakthrough~

The Political Forum (or stream of consciousness thread, like this one) is a circle ~ or a sphere ~ in time. It's a metaphor for the Universe, a macrocosm/microcosm cause-or-effect type of phenomona. The longtime posters and creators of the website (or planetoid, or ancestors, or popular culture) eventually disappear and the newer posters exist in a world they've just stumbled into (like you all feel right now) and have to figure out what happened to them. As the Internet stretches into the future (thank you Al Gore) eventually maintenance of the website (the Earth) will shift to people who will either run it the same way it's always been run or try to figure out something else to do with it. Like needs to happen in this Election. On a larger circle of thought, it's Maya Cosmogenesis 2012.

Political blogs have ascended (or descended, depending on your point of view) into a sort of intellectual reflection of Hip~Hop culture (no offense meant to any fans.) Contributors have signatures or styles that they support by exchanging suggestions, ideas, critiques or debate through words.

It's like a cross~fertilization between Bartcop.com, 8~Mile (see Eminem), Terence McKenna and the Matrix.

~D

Here is my take on April 29 when the Dynamic Duo plead the 5th:

April 29 - Mercury is exactly stationary and semisquare Uranus, which will be active from the 25th through the first. The Moon will be moving to oppose Uranus most of the day. The Mercury station may give the feel that they keep asking the same questions and don't move forward due to the usual non-answers and stonewalling. There also could be traffic problems, scheduling changes, etc.

There may be some drama that day as things leak out, especially when the Moon edges closer to the Uranus opposition as the day moves along. The semisquare between Mercury and Uranus that goes for days suggests trouble to me - things stuck but tense. I think this will be the case in Iraq with fallout continuing from the Mars Pluto opposition of this week, but it could also color the 9/11 Commision. Maybe Bush, in his vapid arrogance, will blurt something out (Uranus).

But I think generally Jupiter will protect him for the most part. If something problematic for Dubya comes of this, it is more likely to come out in late May or June. Neptune is stationary square the Inaugral Ascendant, so deception and obfuscation are the order of the day (the year actually).

Dommael, the introduction of the combination of Bartcop and the Matrix is excellent!

.....................

From the Hauser Report:

Al Qaeda, ala Marx and Lenin, seeks to "heighten the contradictions" by retaining Shrub in power.

Al Qaeda Endorses Bush for President

  As Max Rodenbeck points out in the April 29 New York Review of Books, Al Qaeda has endorsed the “re-election” of George W. Bush:

A statement from al-Qaeda following the Madrid bombings clarified this intent. It said the organization hoped George Bush would win reelection, "because he acts with force rather than wisdom or shrewdness, and it is his religious fanaticism that will rouse our (Islamic) nation, as has been shown. Being targeted by an enemy is what will wake us from our slumber." Quoted on the Arabic news Web site www.elaph.com: "Bayaan lil qa'ida yuhhammal tawqi' kataib abu hafss al massri," March 17, 2004.  (http://www.nybooks.com/articles/17054)

Apparently there is actually one foreign leader who has not endorsed John Kerry for President:  Osama Bin Laden.

“[H]e acts with force rather than wisdom or shrewdness” – not a bad summary of the Bush policy on terrorism.

Richard Clarke was right (again):  The invasion of Iraq is exactly the response to 9/11 that Al Qaeda hoped for.

Al Qaeda is well aware that most Muslims do not support their extreme views.  Without a clear and easily caricatured Crusader opponent, they have no hope of “rous[ing]” Muslims from their “slumber.”

Al Qaeda’s need to provoke Americans into enabling Bush’s failed terrorism policy for another four years puts all of our lives at risk.

Posted on Salon:

Remember the Vietnam Vet being dragged out to diss Kerry…, His name is John O’Neill?

http://www.apfn.net/messageboard/03-30-04/discussion.cgi.60.html

He is a Texas Attorney attacking Kerry about his Vietnam service:

Excerpt from link:

Attorney John E. O'Neill
1000 Louisana Street Suite 1800
Houston TX 77002-5018
Phone 713 654 7604
e-mail oneilljohn@copwf.com - oneilljohn@copwf.com

NEWS I JUST HEARD ON “AIR AMERICA” O’NEILL WORKED FOR CHIEF JUSTICE REINQUEST!

I knew it…

Thank you Nancy!

jonathan!
nader is nothing more than an idealist..is it really a nut job to think -
the people of the usa should be truly free, and that we should stop being slaves to corrupt corporations?

and why on earth are you sticking up for kerry signing the war on and saying he was mislead when WE ALL KNEW that there were probably no wmds and that this invasion would be a big mistake??? was kerry locked up in a room and only fed propaganda and had no access to the internet or to what hans blix was saying?????

i hate to say this but you are like the repug slaves that accept whatever a repug leader does, even if it is to go and die for some innane cause..you are just reading a line from your old boss hilary, and it doesn't matter if it is stupid (nader is a nut case, people-lover, real american patriot nader is a nut case -- what a slap in the face, someone with that attitude deserves the president they got: george w bush//kerry voted for the war only as a last resort -- wow if you think he really believed that would be the case, i have a bridge to sell you..)

kerry will win the election, and if he doesn't the gop is going down shortly after wards...THATS WHY WE'RE HERE..(on this site)..to learn that this will happen astrologically..so cool out! you'll get your dem in there, and we'll all go back to the clinton era, of making money again - but the crooks will still be lurking and get back in again, and you'll never have a great president again...because you (not you, but the masses who slave at the repugs or dem altar -- people like you) don't deserve one.. (people like me become ex-pats at times like these! and split to saner pastures!)
and yes we should pull out of iraq immediately, and if the un does NOT step in and help that country then america SHOULD BE blamed for what they did, and should be considered vile, america has to pay for this either with blood, money and reputation or just for reputation alone: which is 'better'?..but then it was done by an admin that was not elected, but appointed by the supreme court, who is also not elected by the people..home of the free? not quite.

I frequently check out Marjorie Orr's site to see if she has any 'updates'... Here's a bit of optimism... for some weeks now I've watched a 'spot' --- it's a single dot/bullet above George Bush's --- like a space, waiting to be filled... under "world leaders"... just thought I would pass that along to brighten your day...

-------------------

One more piece of news: months ago (maybe just weeks, time seems to drag these days) we were talking about Blair and his 'job' and approval rating (or lack thereof) being a sort of barometer for timing the demise of our own fearless leader... remember? well, most of us probably gave up when revelation after revelation came, and Blair con't with one bold-face lie after another, and the British press got quiet... guess what... the quiet is probably indicative of the fact that they have given Phony Tony the word: cut the cord to Bush or leave Downing Street. Immediately after his walk in the garden with the son of xxx --- with Dubya... and after Dubya let him know where he really stands by caving into the "Bulldozer" and giving the ME to Sharon... Blair first said the gift was a 'forward move in the peace process' (he's drowning in Neptune's embrace) he flip-flopped to denounce the agreement... then, when his buddy called for more troops in Iraq, the word first came (from The Mirror) that 'thousands more British troops were leaving for Iraq' --- then Blair stepped up yesterday to say 'No more troops to Iraq' --- (has he rediscovered his backbone!)
'course that was AFTER Lib Demo Kennedy whupped up on him at PM's questions yesterday (don't you wish Dubya had to answer members of Senate and Congress once a week?!) Seems Blair may have been a bit reckless in moving up spring elections in Britain to October?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;$sessionid$0H35CAM4GSMIJQFIQMGSFGGAVCBQWIV0?xml=/news/2004/04/22/wbasra322.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/04/22/ixnewstop.html

Speaking astrologically, Marjorie Orr recently did three-way comparison: Bush/Blair; US/UK; Bush Gov't/Blair Gov't and it seems there's a STRONG Saturn aspect in all three that is pushing these twins apart! You go Saturn! check it out --- she says 'UK drawing away from US'
http://www.star4cast.com/index2f.asp?page=home%2Easp

Miss Morgana, your words above... "Spain exits stage west..." that "plain as day, in your face Taurus" --- question: Does the 'cheese now stand alone, center stage'? Care to share that popcorn?

Namaste

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