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Ralph Nader
Back in the 1960’s and 1970’s, Ralph Nader was considered a hero. The mere mention of his name generated a profound belief that the dedication and strength of an individual could go up against the powerful and change the world for the better. Known as a consumer advocate, Nader harshly criticized the American auto industry for its unsafe products, leading to the US government’s enactment of significant new safety standards for all automobiles sold in the US. Following these pioneering efforts, Nader began to call for stricter standards in several other American industries. His single-minded endeavors subsequently brought radically improved standards in meat and poultry processing and coal mine safety, as well as restrictions on radiation emissions from TV’s, to give but a few examples. In the minds of the still-young Baby Boomers, this man inspired a belief in the ultimate triumph of right over power and, consequently, a belief in a hopeful future. Three decades later, the dramatic and mind-numbing 2000 election brought George Bush to the White House by a razor-thin majority in Florida. Many have blamed the once-heralded Nader, who ran on the third party Green ticket and siphoned off votes from Al Gore, for enabling the rise of the most radical, right-wing, pro-industry, anti-populist government in American history. Despite Nader’s dubious claims that there was no difference between the centrist Democrat Al Gore and the radical plutocrat George Bush, it is more than obvious that the country and the world would be far different today had Al Gore taken his rightful seat in the White House. As for Ralph Nader, that idealistic man who once stood up bravely for the people against the powerful, he has become known in the 21st Century as the Spoiler who enabled the insatiable corporatocracy and its ally the Republican Party to enormously increase their stranglehold on American life and politics. And now, in the spring of 2004, another election is upon us. And, as predictable as next winter’s snow, Ralph Nader is again running for president, blinded by the delusion that voters who support him will be withholding their support from George Bush. Needless to say, Democrats, as well as many Green Party supporters, are horrified. The nightmarish fear of George Bush winning yet another four years is almost paralyzing. Images of a devastated and debt-ridden banana republic lace the panic attacks of party stalwarts. The biggest, tentative hope is that Nader will wake up out of his pipedream and quit the race. A look at Nader’s natal chart shows a very tight T square made up of Jupiter, Uranus, and Pluto, that also has each of these planets connected to the Sun by either a semisquare or a sesquiquadrate. Thus, the three planets and the Sun always act in concert and are activated simultaneously by transits and progressions. The configuration itself suggests a person whose goals (Sun) are far-reaching and potentially revolutionary in potency and scope. It also implies arrogance and touch of brilliance. The possibility for trouble comes with the natal Neptune opposition to the Sun. Neptune adds a tremendous idealism to this planetary picture, but also brings with it the potential for obscuring the boundaries between reality and illusion. Basically, any aspect of transiting Neptune to this chart or a triggering of the Sun/Neptune opposition will set off this latent tendency to lose perspective and go off into a grandiose fantasy motif. From August to mid-November 2000, Jupiter squared Nader’s natal Neptune and Sun, as well as setting off the Jupiter/Uranus/Pluto T square by the minor hard aspects of semsiquare and sesquiquadrate. Thus, the desire to achieve revolutionary goals (Pluto/Uranus) and an inflated sense of power (Jupiter/Pluto) were infused with the grandiosity and self-deception of Neptune. In the current election cycle, there are two Neptune aspects of consequence, one which weakens considerably after June 2004 and the other which weakens sometime in July 2004. Transiting Neptune is currently opposite Nader’s natal Moon and is stationary there from March through June 2004. This is compounded by converse progressed Neptune conjunct converse progressed Midheaven, which peaks sometime in July. It is unlikely that Nader will be amenable to reason before late July at the earliest. Until then, he will be on a self-deceptive quest that inflates and distorts his impact on the presidential campaign. There are also some very significant triggers to the Jupiter/Uranus/Pluto T square that go though mid-August, which will add to Nader’s sense of power and his desire for a role in transformative change. His sense of what is right and what is true will be very rigid through that time. Converse progressed Mars is currently opposite natal Pluto and will peak by late July. This very aggressive, supercharged energy will be intensified when converse progressed Moon joins converse progressed Mars from July 8 through August 8, 2004. The converse Moon square natal Jupiter overlaps this from July 14 through August 14. These aspects suggest that this period from July though mid-August will see Nader waxing in his sense of his own power and being very aggressive in pursuing his goals. But by mid-August 2004, Neptune, the Deceiver, will have effectively weakened its grasp on Nader’s distorted perceptions just as some much-needed Saturnian practicality enters the picture. From mid-August through mid-September, Saturn will in rapid succession square Jupiter, oppose Pluto, sesquiquadrate the Sun, and square Uranus. There is a strong possibility that these four weeks will see a bracing splash of cold water thrown over Nader’s pretensions. It may be that during this period or shortly thereafter, he will drop out of the race and accept the reality of his potentially disastrous impact on the presidential race. There is, of course, no guarantee that this will occur, but it is safe to say that the hugely inflated ego energy and the self-delusion that are very much impacting Nader’s current awareness will be far weaker from mid-August through November 2004. And we can hope that he may take the painful step that liberates his tiny band of supporters from making another historical blunder of massive proportion.
Nancy Waterman on Apr 5 | Link
Comments
Excellent article, Nancy.I feel Nader may withdraw Good article Nancy and I admire your willingness to take a look at Nadar, I refuse to put any energy into him at all but know that it's necessary. RAJ. Dr. Rice has already said she would be resigning at the 1st of the year, as for Powell, the last few times I've seen him interviewed he seems to have lost the will to fight so I expect you are right about Powell resigning. I am passing this along regarding the tactics being used by this administration in Iraq, makes a person sick when you think about it, are there other innocent people who have demonized by the US through the years in order to control "our" agenda. Actually, my answer to that is YES. http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0405-07.htm Posted by: Sally on April 5, 2004 10:31 PMSally - I probably wouldn't have done Nader but a few people asked, so I took a look. I was struck by strong Neptune followed by Saturn followed by not much. I thought it, perhaps, hopeful. The situation in Haiti is so similar to Iraq and Afghanistan it makes me cringe. Bush goes in and gets rid of the ruler which then creates such chaos that it will cost us a mint to really put right. Here is an article I just saw on Haiti that suggests conclusive proof of Bush's complicity in the coup. http://www.iacenter.org/haiti_0407press.htm From the article: The Bush Administration is facing a growing crisis over its role in the coup in Haiti and the kidnapping of President Jean-Bertrand Aristide, who continues to speak out about his abduction by the U.S. The 15-member organization of Caribbean nations, CARICOM, has refused to recognize the U.S.-installed regime and has called for an investigation, despite intense pressure and threats from the U.S. The 53-member African Union has raised the same demand. On Wednesday, April 7, the Haiti Commission of Inquiry will initiate a public inquiry of the role of the Bush Administration in the crisis in Haiti. Delegations that visited both the Central African Republic and the Dominican Republic will present conclusive evidence that U.S. Special Forces armed, trained, and directed the "rebels" and engineered the abduction of President Aristide. The preliminary report from the Commission states, "two hundred U.S. Special Forces soldiers came to the Dominican Republic as part of 'Operation Jaded Task,' with special authorization from President Hipólito Mejia. We have received many reports that this operation was used to train Haitian rebels. We have received many consistent reports of Haitian rebel training centers at or near Dominican military facilities. We have received many consistent reports of guns transported from the Dominican Republic to Haiti, some across the land border, and others shipped by sea. I have heard Powell will definitely be quitting after January. Posted by: Nancy on April 5, 2004 10:59 PMNancy, Peace Posted by: Jo on April 5, 2004 11:05 PMExcellent article Nancy. Lots of people have been worried and wondering what the effect of a Nader run would be on Kerry, and you've answered that. Jo made such a good point about the Nader followers refusing to vote for Kerry even if Nader drops out. I do hope he drops out is such a way that his people are mobilized to go vote for the candidate that can remove the cartel......Kerry. Thanks again! Posted by: Pat on April 5, 2004 11:26 PMRemember the General who commented on mutilated security guards in Fallujah, saying the village would be "pacified" ? I am so tired of this administration's deliberate misuse of the English language. I pulled this from webster.com: One entry found for pacify. Main Entry: pac·i·fy This will make your day: January 56% ... February 48% ... March 47% ... April 43%. President Bush's approval ratings from the Pew Poll. http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=210 Posted by: Jo on April 5, 2004 11:42 PMOh, that did make my day. :-D Posted by: Pat on April 6, 2004 12:26 AMTotally off topic but it's great! http://atbash.net/blog/archives/000046.html I had to share this find. I recently purchased a high-quality computer sleeve from a small boutique manufacturer. I was checking if it could be washed. The photo is the attached tag with the washing instructions in both English and French. The English is exactly what you would expect and so is the French, for the first 6 lines. The last three lines of French are most interesting. "We are sorry that our President is an idiot. We didn't vote for him." Given recent strained relations between our two countries, it's good to see that not all Americans agree with the current administration. Posted by: Pat on April 6, 2004 12:37 AMhttp://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/04/04/con04148.html I often wonder what Chicago's late, great Mike Royko thinks about "Boss" Dick Cheney literally snickering up his sleeve at the direction he's managed to steer the Independent (sic) 9-11 Commission to effectively cover up what he and others in the administration knew before 9-11. I suspect the acerbic renegade columnist would be quick to point out that the Commission is working pretty hard on its own to make Cheney's job easier. He'd probably tell us the Commission's "bipartisan" members are arguably the only group of people in this country -- maybe even the world -- who don't know exactly what this entire bunch knew -- and when they knew it. You play Cheney's game, you play by Cheney's rules and with Cheney's stacked deck. That's the deal -- take it or leave it. Nobody gets a break here. The Cheney White House has gone from angrily resisting an independent investigation, to sabotaging it via curtailing funds and imposing unrealistic cut-off dates and, finally, to blatant manipulation. Distractions, such as public outrage over selecting Henry Kissinger to be in charge of anything even remotely honorable, gave Cheney the cover he needed, for example, to install as Commission executive director Philip Zelikow, a Condoleezza Rice buddy and former member of the 2000 Cheney/Bush transition team. Zelikow may not be privy to what led up to Bin Laden's 9-11 attack on the United States, but he has no illusions about what prompted Bush's 3-20 attack on Iraq. In a Sep 10, 2002 speech at the University of Virginia, [Asia Times] Zelikow maintained that the war, in which 613 U.S. and 105 coalition troops have been killed [Lunaville.org/WarCasualties] and far too many more wounded and maimed, was motivated by the U.S. government's desire to defend Israel. "Why would Iraq attack America or use nuclear weapons against us?" Zelikow asked. "I'll tell you what I think the real threat is and actually has been since 1990 -- it's the threat against Israel." Zelikow went on to say that such a threat "dare not speak its name," because it was not a "popular sell" with the Europeans. Can't argue with that. If there's one thing Boss Cheney knows, it's how to make money in the war market... Thus, Zelikow is both an able 9-11 Commission puppet and puppeteer. He decides the parameters of the investigation into what was done to protect America before 9-11, to include which questions witnesses are asked, and whether subpoenas will be issued. None have been. None will be. But not even Zelikow sealed the deal for Cheney. Still not satisfied, Cheney went to great lengths to install former New Jersey governor Thomas Kean as Commission chairman. Kean, director and shareholder of Amerada Hess, [Amerada Hess] is directly involved in an oil venture with Saudi Arabia's Delta Oil, which is in part controlled by Khalid bin Mafhouz, Osama Bin Laden's brother-in-law. Just another amazing coincidence which, Kean assures us, will have no effect on his performance in striving mightily to discover any part the Saudis might have played in this nation's most horrific tragedy. However, Cheney's never been one to take chances. With the 9-11 widows out there stomping around, demanding the truth, there was only one thing to do. Appease them. More... Posted by: Pat on April 6, 2004 01:47 AMThis wasn't really a press conference (Dubya doesn't do those) but a "chat" with the working press -- IMHO I don't know who is the most pathetic, the braying jackass answering the question, or the braying jackass asking the question. You pick. http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/04/print/20040405-4.html Posted by: Jo on April 6, 2004 02:19 AM
"Bush vows to arrest cleric al-Sadr" Please someone put up a link.
This may be a different one, but I didn't see the one you are mentioning. Posted by: Pat on April 6, 2004 03:43 AMLink for Corleonis from Yahoo News above "He is attempting to establish his authority in the place of the legitimate authority. We will not tolerate this," Bremer said. Thanks Nancy, Nancy, well I am finally home (10:30) from my "day job" and have been reading the comments. We do have a stellar set of readers don't we! You are right Nadar MUST be addressed, but the thing that struck me is so many of the applying aspects he had by progression in 2000 have moved off. This is wishful thinking on my part but I hope, in the interest of the country, he will drop out. In the meantime, I am 'hi ho, hi ho, hi hoing" it looking at the 8th of April at 9:00am in Washington, DC. Just by coincidence Condelezza Rice is testifying in front of the 9/11 Commission at the exact same time. Imagine.Anyway, Neptune in the 10th house inconjunct her Moon, (people aren't sure they trust her) Neptune in Aquarius (also sign of the Asc.) Aquarius ruler Uranus in Pisces (Neptune's ruler)and Venus in the 12th house (Neptune's house) one degree off a square to Uranus, and transiting Moon at 0 degrees Sagittarius moving into a t-square to Uranus and Venus (Dr. Rice is going to slip with some information that comes back to haunt them.) Something will not add up and we will find out what that is when Mercury (retrograde at 1 Taurus ruled by Venus) goes direct in three weeks. And last but by no means least, Saturn is sitting atop her South Node. Hi Ho, Hi Ho Posted by: Sally on April 6, 2004 05:56 AMAnother US cookie jar and another hand. Posted by: Sally on April 6, 2004 05:59 AMWhat wonderful wonderful articles coming from you guys!! Thank you all for the great reads! Thursday is going to be VERY interesting!! I betcha Condi's heart is going pitter patter. To add to Sally's last post, Condi is also right smack dab in the middle of a Chiron return. Ouch. The White House will shoot her with an arrow and she won't be at all happy. Falling, falling, falling. That SOB in the WH is going to let her fall. SOB!! Posted by: Laurie on April 6, 2004 11:36 AMBoy I can feel that Mercury station right now!!! I meant to say that I don't think it will be apparent right away that Condi takes a dive, but like Sally said, three weeks later or so when Mercury hits that point again. I also want to tell Pat that I loved the post on the tag!! I want to buy their products! So funny, I'm still laughing. I'm Hi-Hoing it too, with Teddy Kennedy's speech today. It was just wonderful. If you missed it, go to C-Span and listen to it there. It's worth every minute!! I have been so very impressed with him lately. http://www.c-span.org/ Posted by: Laurie on April 6, 2004 11:49 AMAll I can say, Nancy and Sally is wow. The two of you have been extremely busy and productive the past couple of weeks writing all of these excellent analyses. As American and in particular an African American, I am truely sadden to see Condi Rice and Colin Powell, two persons with so much talent and potential hitch their stars to such a corrupt administration. All I feel for them is comtempt and sadness. Now Condi has to weave ( or is that reweave) her lies-- I mean rehearse the testimony that she gave in private to the 9/11 commision-- Thursday. I couldn't believe my ears the other day when she said that she didn't want to testify because she didn't want to betray the pResident. I wonder how many other Americans caught that? I went to asteroids ephemeris and Desdemona 666, the triangulated and betrayed character in Othello, is transiting at 4 Aquarius this week. Right on Riceoroni's ASC. Let's see if her 'man' or Big Daddy(s) gonna give her the old back stab-aroo. Also Psyche 16 is at 5 Aquarius. That asteroid pinpoints and brings out childhood trauma, wounds, vunerability, memories. Condi's might just be their witch at the stake. Posted by: bhakti on April 6, 2004 02:24 PMVERY interesting article Nancy. thank you. Since I have a natal Sun square Neptune (2nd-5th), I have problems with illusions, and self-delusions, and can totally understand Nader's "situation". I am posting something from Eric Francis on Condi, it's good & I LOOOOOVE his work: Venus is rising, close to the ascendant in Gemini. She is just tucked into the 12th, hovering above the horizon, but she's in dreamtime -- in the 12th. Woo-woo. Peek-a-boo! Somebody's hiding in there! She talks a lot! But she didn't want to be under oath! But she will be! This is not a dream, but it's kind of dreamy. And now the tricks begin. Venus in Gemini plus Mercury in Taurus = mutual reception (once again). Venus and Mercury, as rulers of one another's signs, switch places. Now you see her, now you don't. Now she's one thing, now she's another. Now she's in one role, now she's in another. We are in for some first class Three-Card Monte. Each of those two planets, through being in Gemini, doubles. So there are essentially three versions of each planet, one in Taurus and two in Gemini. It's complicated and I haven't even mentioned a single asteroid. Mars is also in Gemini. It is rising, in the 1st house. She's going to practice "the best defense is a good offense" theory of football; the preemptive strike. She's going to come on like slings and arrows, with teeth exposed and froth slathering from her sweet lips, like the snarlin' darlin' she is, attacking and defending and saluting the flag in a performance we have not seen the like of since Ollie North gave us "the good, the bad and the ugly." This is going to be testimony made for television. Neptune is the highest planet, right on the 10th house cusp, in Aquarius. The 10th is the house of admiralty and high office. Aquarius is the public. Neptune is the planet that, among other things, tells you to watch out for the fog of deception, delusion and denial. Or in this particular case, the fog of war. I had this vision of connecting Condi to a polygraph for the testimony. They would have to stop the testimony in the middle to put more ink in the machine. But there are going to be so many lies and so much trickery that the truth becomes obvious. And she becomes aware that she's in a trap. The Moon is in the first degree of Sagittarius (Sabian symbol: old veterans telling war stories). The Moon soon moves into a grand cross pattern, opposing Mercury and Venus in Gemini, squaring Uranus, squaring Jupiter and finally opposing Mars. It is dreadful, but at least she's an optimist. For the purposes of a short article, here are some of the more salient points we need to know about Condi herself. She has a lot of planets in Scorpio. These include Mercury, Pallas, Saturn, Sun, Venus and Ceres. Very, very adept at politics. This is not a person who gives up her secrets easily, and she's so tough she could undergo major surgery without anesthesia. But with Mars in Aquarius square those planets, she is frustrated. This Mars, along with her Cancer Moon, tells us she has a social conscience, but she's spending her allowance on something other than lemonade for her friends. Her south node is in the 7th degree of Cancer. Saturn has just finished stationing direct exactly on that node, meaning that there is something VERY karmic going on involving the deep past here. And speaking of karmic, Condi is in the middle of her Chiron return. Exactly precisely in the middle; she is 50. This is the major lesson of her life right now, the focal point of her central crisis and the big test. Here's one way to think of Condi's testimony: she's one of the actual terrorists going on the witness stand. My sense is that she's going to tell a bunch of lies that seem shocking and implicate Bush to the point of making him seem incompetent and inexperienced, and then she's going to take the fall. In a world where somebody is always to blame, it was all her fault. She should have known. We're all going to think, what a bunch of incompetent idiots. God, that's pathetic. I pay taxes working two full days a week for... This? People who don't know to scramble fighter jets with four high-jacked airplanes in the sky simultaneously for the first time in history? People who can't "connect the dots" (as she once put it herself)? And then they're going to blame her. The boys took over the world, killed and continue to kill a lot of people, made and continue to make a pile of cash, got contracts for all their friends, exacted revenge on Sodom, eliminated civil rights and entrenched the United States in a war that right wing pundits say could last a century. And they're going to blame a black chick. Then we'll all forget it happened. That's my theory". "We really do seem to be on the brink here. Like a top, once its even spin turns into a reckless wobble, these things can be very, very hard to right once they fly out of control. According to the Times, Tony Blair is coming to Washington next week for crisis talks that won't be called crisis talks. From the Times article ... British officials say that while they are sympathetic with the daunting management task that Americans have undertaken, they also believe that the Coalition Provisional Authority under Mr. Bremer has become too "politicized," meaning that events are orchestrated and information controlled with the American political agenda uppermost in mind. -- Josh Marshall link to NYTimes' article: I'm confused! ps I'm not so worried about being confused these days, with transit Saturn on my SNode and IC opposite Sun and Merc; Mercury Retrograde and transit Neptune right on my Moon I get soooo spacey, not usual for this focused, practical Cappy ;-) Posted by: bhakti on April 6, 2004 03:10 PMMars is on 9 Gemini at the 'nuclear degree'. Read the article posted above about the Uranium powder left all over from the bombings currently and in '91. Also, since I try to be a humorous as possible it would be so much fun and tension releasing if Condi revealed her dark secret was a thing for Laura Bush. Posted by: bhakti on April 6, 2004 03:24 PMRegarding Condi Rice's testimony on Thursday: 1) she will only testify for 2 1/2 hrs., as agreed upon earlier in the deal Kean struck with the White House; 2) questions will come from most Sr members of the Commission first, I would think alternating between Rep and Demo -- Repugs will feed her easy questions, favorable to the Admin which will take up 1/2 of the allotted time 3)she will give her "opinion" on Clarke's testimony and present as few facts as she deems credible in order to tell the truth under oath... [John Dean of Watergate fame has commented that this would be her best offense] 4) unless the questioner holds her feet to the fire, she won't give up a thing 5) the end result will be no gain as far as shedding any light on the investigation, and further affirmation to those "who have ears to hear" that this Admin is stonewalling and not committed to bringing the perpetrators of 9/11 to justice but focused on Dubya's re-selection... IMHO, peace Posted by: Jo on April 6, 2004 03:37 PMAnother great article, Nancy. There is something entirely slippery about Nader. I've never really trusted this entity on an intuitive level and guess that there's much beneath the surface of his supposed liberality. (I'm a Kucinich fan. Now that's what a liberal looks like to me!)Further, there ARE several past Green Party (and Nader) supporters who aghast at his arrogance. There are other wonderful posts here. In particular I enjoyed Peg's post on Condi. Given just her powerful Scorpio stellium of planets I believe this entity will come out fighting and not like an eagle. This will be to the death and she will make certain someone(s) go down with her. farrout Posted by: farrout on April 6, 2004 04:11 PMOne other thing re Bush/Cheney appearance before the 9/11 Commission (whenever it happens) --- Bush was very curt in his chat with press yesterday - he corrected reporter who asked about his testimony before... to state that it was a "MEETING"... if you go the Commission website you will see that it is listed as a Meeting... before the full Commission... guess just a friendly chat among friends, right...? No oath, no questions? Just the dummy and his ventriloquist doing their mantra? The transcripts of Rumsfeld, Powell et all are not available yet, but here are pdf sites for interim reports and press briefings of Commission so far... [again, I am forced to ask under what statue/law does the WH get to "vet" the final report? It did not do so with either of the interim reports to date, and they fall under the same guidelines as the final! Oh well, guess you have to be a lawyer to "understand" the whys and wherefores... we're being snuckered!!!] http://www.9-11commission.gov/archive/report_2003-07-08.pdf http://www.9-11commission.gov/archive/report_2003-09-23.pdf http://www.9-11commission.gov/archive/2003-09-23_press_briefing.pdf http://www.9-11commission.gov/archive/hearing7/9-11Commission_Hearing_2004-01-26.htm Posted by: Jo on April 6, 2004 04:21 PMFarrout, Condi has too many of her own secrets that she doesn't want known and so she won't point fingers, not in an obvious way. Look for the "slips" she makes and what she doesn't say, that will express volumns. Scorpio's usually don't go directly for revenge, they just sit back and watch a person hang themselves and then permit themselves a little smile. Posted by: Sally on April 6, 2004 04:47 PM
Love, Joy and Peace
worth a read, with a warning.... http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,4896354-111675,00.html Posted by: wv on April 6, 2004 05:14 PMPatrick, I think we all had high hopes especially with Colin Powell there, but I personally forgot that Colin Powell was a "good soldier" and that he investigated the My Lai and found nothing amiss. What is going to happen to them? Well when Uranus moves into mid degree Pisces, Dr. Rice will have a grand trine set up in her chart from Pisces to Cancer (her Moon, Uranus, Jupiter) and her Scorpio Planets (Sun, Mercury, Venus and Saturn) Eventually both of them will be ok however both of them have a very rough year or two ahead, in fact extremely rough. Condelezza would do well to try to follow her creativity for awhile. Neptune goes back to square her Saturn (a real loss of ego and boundaries.) Condelezza is no Carole Mosley Braun and I don't think she will rise to this kind of power again. I'm not sure she won't be sick and tired of politics after this. If not, she will go after a Gov. or Senate seat. Powell could become embittered but will eventually get over it and hopefully write a book, an honest book about his experiences after he has gained a little perspective. Colin Powell could have been President of the US at one time and how on earth that Aries let someone comprimise him and the value he gained from Vietnam is and will remain beyond me. Must be his Sun inconjunct his Natal Neptune, that's all I can figure. Both of them have alot of inner healing to do after their experiences, whether one agrees with them or not (and I don't) both of them have been hung out to dry for their loyalty, and their loyalty remains, at least for now.Sending Dr. Rice out on that round of talk show interviews was awful really awful and stupid. Something akin to GWB going on Tim Russert. One interesting note on Powell,I saw him on PBS being interviewed by Jim Lehrer and he didn't slam Richard Clarke, Lehrer tried to get him to do that and he wouldn't, neither has Tenet. That made me go hmmmmmm, and made me think Powell is done with it all. Posted by: Sally on April 6, 2004 05:50 PMWhat's everyone's take on this Buzzflash editorial? It's something that I've feared for about a year. http://www.buzzflash.com/farrell/04/04/far04011.html Posted by: susan on April 6, 2004 05:54 PMSusan, last year one of the astrologers on this site, maybe Vis?, commented about the real possibility of Bush calling off elections for some reason. Very interesting editorial. It scares me too. Posted by: Laurie on April 6, 2004 06:03 PMSusan me thinks George Bush would have a civil war in his own backyard. John Dean's book about Bush's impeachable offenses would be a good place to start. I am wondering about Vice President Richard Cheney. Listening to an interview with John Dean on "The Diane Rehm Show" today http://www.wamu.org/dr/index.html I pray you're correct, Morgana. What concerns me is the ga-zillions they dispensed to local law enforcement. Those funds are supposed to be used in the "war on terr", but given the events in Miami where the police were armed to the teeth and used very offensive tactics, I suspect those funds are meant to be used against anybody who gets rowdy, if you know what I mean. Posted by: shylurker on April 6, 2004 06:46 PMLaurie, I said the elections might be called off and that was a real concern as well as fraud with the voting machines. There is something that keeps coming up as hazy about this election for both Bush and Kerry. Something not ringing true. While we focus on GWB Saturn return on election day, Saturn is also opposing US Pluto and Mercury is in a trine to Saturn and sextile to Pluto. Another message to the people. Pluto in the 2001 Inaugural Chart will be less than a degree away from the Moon by Solar Arc. Could the American people be forced into a revolution? I don't know but I do know that the buzz for that is out there, rather it seems the question is out there. I think there is a line that we need to be careful of crossing where we scare ourselves silly and don't focus on positive outcomes, thereby creating the negative as opposed to the positive. Fear is a destructive force whether it's fear of terrorists or an administration. I am amazed that this country went from a positive belief during the 90's to being comfortable with a daily fear based culture and that seems normal to them. This is amazing to me. Posted by: Sally on April 6, 2004 06:54 PMWe must refuse to be "terrorized" by this Administration, whether it be through their constant shouts of "the sky is falling" or whatever... most serious people who have looked at the data closely on 9/11 have a lot of questions about the "official story" --- which is why the present Admin is stonewalling so much... they hope we'll all just go away... most astrologers, psychics and other intuitive people believe these next few months will be violent for Iraq, probably Afghanistan and some other spots that have seen violence in the past month or two (Haiti) and even now... Morgana is right about our military being stretched... Iraq is erupting now that the Shias have taken to the streets and we don't have the boots on the ground to cover that problem... we don't know what WILL happen before November, but we can all probably agree that the door is open to many possibilities... the real question is for me, not so much what willl happen, but how will we individually and collectively deal with it... Laurie, don't let fear in ... that's what this administration thrives on... they want us all to be afraid and look to 'big daddy' who frankly can't protect himself, is so afraid himself, he travels with more than 700 people to protect him! This snake (Admin) is cornered for sure and they're worried about more than retaining power and advancing their agenda, they're worried about prison time... they have committed an act of treason in taking us into war on lies... not to mention the litany of crimes we are trying to uncover... Shylurker, I hear your fears about the People... again, don't let that in... otherwise, they've already won 'cause we'll stop sending out our light and calling them on their dirty deeds... Mercury Rx can be a good time, for reviewing things we've done, doing them over, reflective... let's send that fear back, back and away... namaste Posted by: Jo on April 6, 2004 07:15 PMFood for thought... Among people who chew this subject over in their brain, the concept of ultimate evil is a tough one to get past. It goes like this. The Devil is a creature whose personality is embodied by only negative things. Follow me? ONLY the negative. NOTHING positive. To have ANY kind of admirable or positive qualities would disqualify it from being the Devil. Right? The argument is whether you think self-preservation is an admirable quality. If it is, it is not a quality the Devil could possess by definition. Now let's just for the sake of discussion presume that George Bu$h is indeed an avatar of the Devil. He's certainly got enough blood on his hands to make a good run for the position in my book. The argument is that this creature could not exist indefinitely by its own nature. In other words, Bu$h's White House can only exist for a very limited amount of time. It is not self-sustaining ~ it is degenerating rapidly due to the choices it is allowed to make as a result of the limitations of its own personality. Every plan the Devil laid would hold the seeds of his self-defeat. Every contact or ally manipulated to bring about his diabolical schemes he has no choice but to backstab and destroy. See, a creature that has NO POSITIVE QUALITIES (which would be the definition of the living embodiment of evil, right?) is destined to self-destruct. Because to take action to avoid self-destruction is a positive action and therefore impossible for a creature that is the living embodiment of all negative impulses. This creature if it existed would compulsively destroy its own plans. Because no matter how desireably evil the result, if every seed laid along the way was evil, if every ally made to bring the plan about was making a pact with evil, it would not be a sustainable course of action. If your every action is negative all choices invariably lead to entropy. The only way to avoid this fate would be to temporarily suspend it's evil nature long enough to ensure that some sort of renewable self-sustaining, life-affirming plans were set up. But having such a one-dimensional evil nature this course of action is unfortunately unavailable to the Devil (and George Bu$h by extension.) The shockwaves of every repercussion would weaken the structure of the evil plan until the whole thing was being held together with dental floss. Thus Iraq. Thus the facts of 911 versus the increasingly implausible "Official White House version." In other words, the nature of George Bu$h is sufficiently evil that his destruction is ultimately fated to happen as a result of his own machinations. ~Dommael Posted by: Dommael on April 6, 2004 07:21 PMThis was posted about 1:38 est I must say I am stunned at how quickly things seem to be coming apart in Iraq, particularly in the south. I can't imagine this particular takeover will be permitted to last for long. But at least for the moment, according to CNN, Sadrist forces have taken control of Najaf, a city of a quarter million people and one of even greater religious significance. Here's a brief report I got this morning from a friend working as a private security consultant in Iraq (but not for the CPA), who we should be hearing more from in the coming days ... Hey Josh ... thanks for the concern . I wrote the other day but power went out. This place is HOT! I am driving with max Iraqi bodyguards (whom I have just finished training), max weapons and max bodyarmor. WHAT WERE THEY THINKING with this Moqtada Sadr thing? Were they just bored with Fallujah. The place is a hornets nest now. Armor is all over the streets but doesn't seem to have disrupted most city life ... I told [a reporter] two weeks ago we were "one massacre away from the second Intifada of Iraq." Well I think we are there now. Interesting Buzzflash article, Sally. I'm not so sure "we the people" would fight a military takeover. There would be pockets of resistence such as in Michigan's Upper Peninsula where there is a fierce independence. In the South, neighbors would trip over one another to turn in a suspect neighbor. I agree that a climate of fear breeds upon itself. I also agree that we need to bear light and witness to all that is sustaining. However, I do believe we should be prepared for martial law in whatever small way we can. In our preparation we can continue to create a vision of what the human species and all its inhabitants might be if peace were possible. Another interesting aspect to this is the Mayan Prophecy of Big Chaos to coincide with Winter Solstice on December 12, 2012. To me it signifies the true dawn of the Aquarian Age, where through chaos the a new age is born; one that is kinder and far more gentle. And although we may or more not physically past the test of this coming time, our continued support of a lasting peace (the actual bravery of those acts) will indeed impact what the future holds. farrout Posted by: farrout on April 6, 2004 07:45 PMOn this whole subject of dark/light, positive/negative, good/evil, I think it is all a matter of the balance of things inherant in nature itself. Anyone who claims to be able to rid the world of "evil," like georgie said he intended to do, is a tad delusional to say the least. Thanks, Sally for answering my question so quickly. If you guys have never read this, it's worth checking out: http://www.moderateindependent.com/v2i4abomb.html KERRY’S SECRET WEAPON ~D Posted by: Dommael on April 6, 2004 08:28 PMMessage below is linked from Whatreallyhappened.com - Mike is reliable in my opinion - if he posts it on his website, it's for real -- forwarding the mail from Ms Eman of Occupation Watch Centre in Baghdad akira ****************************************** Iraqi cities are being sieged and bombed by missiles and tanks. Sadr, Eman --------------------- Mike makes a valid comment: "Remember when one justification for invading Iraq was that the government of Saddam Hussein was killing its own people? What is the world to think now that the government of George Bush is doing exactly the same thing?" Guess we now know the definition of "pacification" --- I have "felt" this going on since yesterday afternoon - we will shock 'n awe again... this is genocide... Send light to the children... Namaste This is from Brits: ------------- "Reports from the mideast are trickling in that the "pacification" of Fallujah has triggered more riots and uprising across Iraq. Bremer's closing of the newspaper over an affront to his dignity may well turn out to be the spark that set Iraq ablaze. The war is on again, assuming it was ever really off. The Shiites, once "associates" is not friends, are now enemies. If Bush wanted a united Iraq, he has it. Shiite,l Sunni, and Kurd are united in their hate of the US occupation. With no WMDs and Saddam in jail, it is clear that the US is fighting the Iraqi people, the same people the US claimed it was saving. Bush is still trying to sell the "they hate us because they hate freedom". Nonsense. Anyone can look at the legislation Bush himself has passed recently to see that it is Bush who hates freedom, and the Iraqi people know it. They are going to clean house, and if they succeed (and history is on their side), it may well start a long-overdue housecleaning in the US itself. " ----------- These are the numbers out of Iraq: 616 American soldiers killed, 18,000 medical evacuations of wounded American soldiers, 102 non-American coalition soldiers killed, more than 10,000 Iraqi civilians killed, somewhere in the neighborhood of $200 billion spent. There are no numbers available for the Iraqi civilians wounded. These are the numbers out of the Bush White House, first put forward by George W. Bush in his 2003 State of the Union Address and which remain even today on the White House website: 26,000 liters of anthrax in Iraq, 38,000 liters of botulinum toxin in Iraq, 500 tons of sarin and mustard and VX gas in Iraq, 500 tons being 1,000,000 pounds, along with 30,000 munitions to deliver these agents. None of this, not one little bit of it, has been found. More from Truthout's Wm Rivers Pitts at TORONTO STAR "Why should we hear about body bags and deaths and how many, what day it's gonna happen? It's not relevant. So why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that?" — George W. Bush's mother Barbara on ABC/Good Morning America, March 18, 2003 Posted by: Jo on April 6, 2004 09:16 PM
Thanks Love, Joy and Peace Posted by: corleonis on April 6, 2004 11:34 PMWow, seems like alot of us were on the same wavelength today concerning the good/ evil polarity, and how to bring balance to the world. Must be the Libra full moon vibes :) Dommael, I liked your post too. There are way too many people in this world, many with selfish, evil intentions; lots of folks are gonna have to die before 2012. I pray that the Earth becomes a place filled anew with the joy & wonder of being alive, each soul understanding the concept of loving thy neighbor as thyself; it's going to take alot of work before that point in time arives. Posted by: Peg on April 6, 2004 11:40 PMThis is way off topic, but I just discovered it. As I have said before, I do not belive that their where any hi-jackers, but the neocon with a remote control device to fly the plans into the towers and Pentagon. I just happened to compare the 9/11 chart to Daddy Bush and it is awsome. His Sun squares his Uranus and the mid point is 6 Taurus which is sq to 9/11 Neptune. See the lie? His Neptune which sextiles his moon has its mid point at 18 Virgo which is Conjunct the 9/11 Sun. See the lie again? Venus on 9/11 is conjunct his Neptune at 18 Leo, which was the grand cross eclispe on Aug 11, 1999. So it was for money. 9/11 Jupiter is conjunct his Pluto at 11 Cancer. Uranus on 9/11 is trian his Sun at 21 Gemini. His Jupiter is 14 Sag. and 9/11 Pluto is 13 Sag. Saturn is 14 Gemini on 9/11. HIs Saturn and Mars are trian and the midpoint is 21 Sag. 9/11 Uranus is sextile and 9/11 Pluto/Saturn mid point is 13.5 Virgo. I did not do a lot of the midpoints and no progressions or archs. Wonder what more would show? Also I only used 1 degree orbs. Also I found this. On Aug 5, 2001 Saturn and Pluto made the exact opposition at 12:04 pm, Washington,DC. On Aug 5 the moon was 28 Aqurius and Sq. Daddy Bush Mercury. On 9/11 the moon has moved to 28 Gemini to trian the Aug 5th Moon. This leads me to belive that whatever was said or done on Aug 5 was directly connected to 9/11. Several in the adminstration had Pluto opposed to 9/11 Uranus, but none had any place near daddy Bush. That is of the charts that I have. Was Daddy Bush the director? Hope one of you great astrologers will read more of this chart. Daddy Bush chart 6/12/1924 11:38 am Milton ? I don't know if that is Texas or Mass or Conn. But it is 71w05 and 42N15. Ok gang when is whatever Daddy did going to come out in the open, if ever? Posted by: Jean on April 7, 2004 01:19 AMPS. Daddy Bush Neptune is in the 12th which is the childs 8th of self undoing. Posted by: Jean on April 7, 2004 01:23 AM130 SOLDIERS KILLED IN IRAQ - REPORTS Shia Cleric Sadr has been amassing an army for over a year... folks have scoffed at it... many of those Iraqis recently trained by Coalition forces for police force and security work are fleeing to Sadr in anger against Bremmer... if you saw Robert Fisk's account on Democracy Now you have some background for what Bremmer has done to provoke all this, in addition to the closing of the Iraqi newspaper. Naomi Klein and others think Bremmer's actions were intentional, to create unrest. Check out the following links. http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1186566,00.html http://www.tompaine.com/feature2.cfm/ID/10182 There are conflicting reports about casualties... what else is new? Military is not going to give us correct numbers of Americans killed and they don't even count Iraqi civilians... this is blowing up in Neocons' faces, just as we all predicted last year... this is an utter failure Peace and light to all those in harms way... Posted by: Jo on April 7, 2004 02:56 AMThe rapid acceleration of events in Iraq parallels a rapid collapse of our national government. I’m wondering what the following means (forgive me if these transits to the US Chart are wrong): Uranus trine Jupiter - Now It seems like the revolution and violence communicate important lessons through Jupiter; and that our ability to learn is being severely disrupted distortions in our sense of who we are – all of this as we speak/chat. I’m particularly worried about the Mars-Mars conjunction coming on 4/23 and the Saturn-Sun conjunction on 6/9. Bremmer currently has Saturn square his Sun. It has been going on since late January but will peak around April 8 (give or take a few days depeding on birth time). I am wondering if they catch Sadr or have some other military success around then and things quiet briefly. Or if maybe he gets replaced? Condi has Saturn sesquiquadrate natal Venus til 4/17. She will get aggressive and critical press til around then. At that point I think the subject of the news cycle will change, for a while. Posted by: Nancy on April 7, 2004 04:23 AMThis is interesting. Posted by: Jeanie on April 7, 2004 04:31 AM opps-interperated the time wrong for DC it should be PM on the 6th. Posted by: Jean on April 7, 2004 04:35 AMi'm sure the predictions on nader are correct..he's really rooting for kerry, and for kerry to really keep going, and NOT TURN INTO A GORE.. Nader is the lead author of our misery. Gore 'lost' Florida by 500 votes and, in that state, Nader got 90,000 votes. Equating Gore and Bush is, to say the least, grossly inaccurate. Clinton-Gore had a good economy and made a clear focus on terrorism. I don't think anyone can imagine Gore invading Iraq after 911 (which, if you listen to the 911 commission testimony, would not have happened under Clinton-Gore since they had an all-hands alert focusing on al queda). This kind of thinking opens the door to choose the 'perfect' (Nader) over the 'good' (Kerry or Gore in 2000). Well, Nader is far from perfect. If he supports Kerry, he would not put himself in a position to take one single vote!!! Nader is an egomaniac whose last effort was to bestow Bush upon the world (think of all the damage and death) and whose current venture into egomania is to take votes away from Kerry. If Nader wants unqualified affection and a sense of importance, he should get a Labrador puppy! Posted by: mike on April 7, 2004 06:28 AMhttp://www.crisispapers.org/essays/scandals.htm Posted by: Sally on April 7, 2004 06:56 AMA-Men Mike! bhakti, to answer your question, I think the most common time of birth for condi rice is 11:30 am and that is the time I used but of course other astrologers may have their own sources. pat, great story about the tag-"we are sorry our president is an idiot we didn't vote for him" a little humor in this time of terrible death and destruction, I fear what will take place as Pluto/Mars interact later this month, but again, fear must give way to action and making things right, not wrong, its the only way to go, hard as it is sometimes, and this site makes it so much easier knowing there are voices out there who are in unison and in the same fight with the same feelings of distress at what this administration has done to the people of the world as I do myself many blessings Nancy Sally and Morgana for the articles given here, and to all the other writers and list members also. Posted by: Isabelle Ghaneh on April 7, 2004 11:19 AMKeeping the planet in chaos looks very profitable. If anyone wants to check out some of the companies making those profits, go to http://blackwaterusa.com/ (From Jeanie's post>>>>>"In this context, the sending of foreign contractors into Falluja in late-model SUVs with armed escorts - down a street clogged with traffic where they would literally be sitting ducks - only feeds suspicion that the US is deliberately instigating more violence as a pretext for "punishment" and further chaos courtesy of the US military. …Colgate University professor Nancy Ries describes the chaos in Iraq as "sponsored chaos", which fits into the broad definition of chaos theory as an ordered system or purpose underlying seemingly random events. That is, war and occupation are wonderful opportunities for corporations to make billions of dollars in profits, unchecked by the laws and regulations that hamper their profitability in peace time.") Posted by: Sharon on April 7, 2004 12:39 PMNader calls for Bush to be impeached: http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0406-12.htm I'll support ANYONE with the balls to tell it like it is. Posted by: Peg on April 7, 2004 01:00 PM"The War President" Riverbend says all the mosques are calling for jihad:http://www.riverbendblog.blogspot.com/ Posted by: Peg on April 7, 2004 02:16 PMHere is Riverbend, posting from Baghdad on her blog, Baghdad Burning, Saturday, October 25, 2003 Al-Sadr has been making waves in the south and Baghdad. He is frightening and I don’t think his influence should be underestimated. He easily has over a million followers (some say it’s up to 4 million) and they practically revere him. It’s not him personally that makes him so important with his followers, it’s the fact that he is the son of a famous Shi’a cleric who was assassinated in 1999. While the majority of the middle and upper class Iraqis want a secular government, Al-Sadr seems to resonate with the impoverished, currently jobless men in the south and in some of Baghdad’s slums. Currently, the CPA believe he was responsible for Al-Kho’i’s assassination back in April. Others suspect that he might have been responsible for Al-Hakim’s death a couple of months ago… detaining him is going to be a major problem because his followers will make sure to wreak havoc… judging from the last few months, they’ll just strike up a deal with him. Raed Jarrar, writing from Baghdad today, April 7, 2004 in his blog, Raed in the Middle: The uprising in Iraq is still expanding… AsSadr is NOT a mere twenty-something year old guy, that is playing games. Middle East expert Juan Cole, in his blog *Informed Comment* 2. Talking heads both from Iraq and from the ranks of the US retired officers keep attempting to maintain that Muqtada's movement is small and marginal. One speaker claimed that Muqtada has only 10,000 men. In fact that is the size of his formal militia. Muqtada's movement is like the layers of an onion. You have 10,000 militiamen. But then you have tens of thousands of cadres able to mobilize neighborhoods. Then you have hundreds of thousands of Sadrists, followers of Muqtada and other heirs of Muhammad Sadiq al-Sadr. Then you have maybe 5 million Shiite theocrats who sympathize with Muqtada's goals and rhetoric, about a third of the Shiite community. The Sadrists will now try to shift everything so that the 5 million become followers, the hundreds of thousands become cadres, and the tens of thousands become militiamen. More... http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=2265 Posted by: Jo on April 7, 2004 02:18 PMIn the meantime, Ralphy is calling for Bush's impeachment. Bam bam bam... Nader Calls for Bush to Be Impeached CHICAGO - Independent presidential candidate Ralph Nader (news - web sites) called Tuesday for President Bush (news - web sites) to be impeached for "deceiving the American people night after night after night" about U.S. involvement in Iraq (news - web sites). http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=694&e=1&u=/ap/20040407/ap_on_el_pr/nader Posted by: Morgana on April 7, 2004 04:46 PM:-D http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections2004/story/0,13918,1186813,00.html Posted by: Pat on April 7, 2004 05:15 PMThat Ralf! He's such a card. HE IS LATE AND STILL NOT GETTING IT......though he (in his Neptunian world) may mean well. Posted by: Pat on April 7, 2004 05:46 PMhttp://news.com.com/2100-1002_3-5186016.html?tag=st.lh http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/07/opinion/07WED5.html?th Peril in Sudan The worsening humanitarian disaster in western Sudan, where thousands of people have been killed and almost a million driven from their homes and farms by government-backed forces, will test whether the world has learned anything from its failure to stop the genocide in Rwanda 10 years ago. The United Nations, the United States, the European Union and African states must press the Sudanese government to halt attacks on civilians and to let aid agencies in. Absent swift and determined international action, Sudan could be another case of outside neglect allowing famine and disease to consume a nation. For two decades, the Muslim Arab elite in Khartoum, the capital, has responded ruthlessly to political, economic and social demands from Sudan's ethnically and religiously diverse regions. After a cease-fire was declared in 2002 in the long-running civil war between the government and rebels in the south, Khartoum turned its forces on black African rebels in the Darfur region in the west. Instead of aiming solely at the rebels, however, the government, helped by Arab militias, has also taken aim at civilians. Throughout Darfur — a huge region the size of France — villages have been bombed and their inhabitants killed, raped and forced into government-run concentration camps, where they are preyed upon further by militia fighters. Aid agencies have been denied access to most of the displaced. Some people, though near starvation, are refusing aid for fear of retribution. The few international monitors in the area estimate that more than 1,000 people are dying each week from violence and disease. With no planting having been done in this agricultural region, the prospect of a devastating famine looms. More... Posted by: Pat on April 7, 2004 06:00 PMIf only Bush hadn't spent all our money on his corporate friends, and oil. BTW It is going to "come out" that Daddy Bush opposed the Iraq war. Posted by: Pat on April 7, 2004 06:02 PMhttp://www.publicintegrity.org/default.aspx Posted by: Pat on April 7, 2004 06:17 PM:-D Kerry 48% Bush 42% Wednesday April 07, 2004--Senator John F. Kerry leads President George W. Bush 48% to 42% in the latest Rasmussen Reports Presidential Tracking Poll. This is Kerry's biggest lead of the year and the lowest level of support for Bush since Kerry became the front-runner. Today's result marks a nine-point net gain for Kerry since last Friday morning. That change is especially dramatic because Friday's strong job creation report was expected by many to boost the President's numbers. Any bounce the President might have enjoyed from the economic news was outweighed by developments in Iraq. In a survey conducted over the past two nights, 44% of voters say Bush is doing a poor job handling the situation in Iraq. That's down six points in a week. More... http://www.dailykos.com :-D Washington Post editorial, OMG --- "The only unequivocally good policy option before the American people is to dump the president who got us into this mess, who had no trouble sending our young people to Iraq but who cannot steel himself to face the Sept. 11 commission alone." http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A56304-2004Apr6.html --------------- That's one for the media!!! Jo, :-D Posted by: Pat on April 7, 2004 08:00 PMEMERGENCY IRAQ PROTESTS NATIONALLY-COORDINATED DAYS OF ACTION Friday, April 9 - Monday, April 12, 2004 To demand: - U.S. OUT OF IRAQ - Bring the Troops Home Now - Money for jobs, education and healthcare - Not for wars of aggression Call initiated by the A.N.S.W.E.R. Coalition See below for details of protests in New York City, Washington DC, San Francisco and Los Angeles, downloadable flyers, and a link to a form to list your city's action on the website and in future emails. * * * * * IRAQ AT THE BOILING POINT April 7, 2004--The Iraqi revolt against occupation is spreading in qualitative developments. The Pentagon is reacting with a murderous iron fist that is making the popular Iraqi position increasingly clear to the world: that the occupation forces are indeed an enemy - not liberators. http://www.iacenter.org/iraq_0409.htm Posted by: Jo on April 7, 2004 08:22 PMFrom the Economist....
Nancy, another great article, thank you. Sally, it IS very interesting that Tenet and Powell didn't slam Clarke even when pressed to do so - that says alot. Also, that anyone can still be a vocal supporter of Bush is beyond me except to note that these people are just of the mind that they are damned if they are going to lose face. My question, then, is - what in the US chart would represent the populace being compelled to cut lose their "sacred cow" and have the humility to "lose face" and admit they were/are wrong to support Bush? If there is a chart location and relevant transits, I'd love to know what they are and what they portend between now and November.. Posted by: Lucy on April 7, 2004 11:22 PMOh mah gawd the news is coming in fast and furious right now. Tensions are soooo high on the message boards ~ not this one of course, but the less civilized places I frequent. Isn't Condi testifying tomorrow? Why am I getting the feeling that the collective psyche is frothing at the mouth for someone to blame for this and she's going to be decimated in the cross-examination? Of course, this IS the 911 commission we're talking about and they are under strict orders to play nice with her. I'd almost feel sorry for her. If, you know, she wasn't a psychopath. Things seem like they are just... about.... to spill over and get super freaky. Enough blood has been spilled that the somnambulistic public is starting to become aware that something is happening on the other side of the world and the mainstream media looks like it's about to start to hamstring Bu$h. If things keep going this way Kerry may be able to pull off a win in November without making any more public statements! Just had to come in here to clear my head. Too much information!!! ~D Posted by: Dommael on April 7, 2004 11:32 PMPosted on Salon: "... Why? Many Iraqis are saying US began this three days ago in order to create chaos. Escalating suddenly with no point that Iraqis can understand. I believe the Iraqis are right. The Bushits are causing this crap deliberately. It hit me last night. They really do want the situation in Iraq to go to hell, with savage fighting and plenty of American dead. It's an election strategery from Rove to bolster the candidacy of Ralf Nadir. Ralf will trumpet the idea that we must immediately withdraw from Iraq, and damn the consequences. John Kerry will not be able to go along with this, because Iraq plunged into a full-fledged civil war is a local, regional, and worldwide threat. Some of us on this thread already want to see the U.S. just get out. There is going to be a significant slice of America that will respond very emotionally and strongly to the increasing carnage with a demand that we just get out, damn the consequences. By increasing the carnage and stupidity in Iraq, Rove will bolster this this demographic. I don't agree with this, and I am sure John Kerry will not be able to agree either. Thus, by fucking up the war, Rove manages to drive a wedge between two big groups of potential Kerry voters. Meanwhile, Ralf, with no chance of winning, no scruples about lying, and no sense of responsibility for his actions, whips up emotions for an immediate withdrawel, and castigates Kerry unmercifully as a war-monger and the same as Bush. The Bushits figure they will lose fewer wingnut voters by screwing up the war than the Democrats will loose by refusing to go along with the "get out and damn the consequences" demographic. Nothing is beneath the bastards." Posted by: Pat on April 7, 2004 11:33 PMthat's good, Pat. makes sense given that Nader's money is GOP. but one question,please? how exactly does one "fuck up a war"? lol :) Posted by: Peg on April 7, 2004 11:44 PMPeg that post is a quote from someone else on Salon. I would only guess, by not winning it, or killing innocent people, or lieing about what is happining, or lieing about why you are fighting the war, or......................... Posted by: Pat on April 7, 2004 11:50 PMPeg, IMO, the best way to fuck up a war is by starting it. Posted by: Pat on April 8, 2004 12:08 AM"Bush's Iraq design may be creating the biggest crisis for U.S. imperialism since the collapse of the Soviet Union" This quote from the article Jo linked us to --iacenter.org. Maybe this is what we need; the downfall of U.S. imperialism. Ralph Nader is correct in that Republican and Democrat alike are leading us in the same direction in this regard. The treatment of their own people, social and environmental issues is different, that is why we favor the Democrats. Maybe we need to be taken over by a World authority like Germany was after WWII and policed so that we cannot have or make any weapons and limit us to peaceful means; Israel as well. I believe Bremmer instigated it - I think I referenced several sources that said so earlier on this thread... I believe Neocons thought they could use Sharon tactics and get rid of Sadr and his army before the 6/30/ deadline... the deadline of course is important to get a legal entity in power so that they can start pumping the oil... [got to have someone to write the checks to, right?]they knew they would have extra forces in at this time because of the overlap with the rotation... the problem is arising because they have as usual underestimated... this time, Sadr's militia and what influence all of this might have on the Iraqi populace. The coalition does not have control (did they ever?) and they can't get the genie back in the bottle in time for the 6/30 deadline, so they will resort to extreme violence, genocide, to meet their objective, because they feel they have to get the oil flowing... so you see, NONE of us count for a d*** thing... not our soldiers, not the populace of this country, and certainly not the Iraqis... Geo. H. W. Bush once remarked that it was ridiculous that all these ignorant Arabs have so much wealth... he probably used a more derogatory term, but you get the point! If you think Bremmer is ruthless, wait 'til Wolfie takes over! Check my post above for the planned protests on Friday thru the week-end --- the PEOPLE need to hit the streets... this genocide cannot happen... our soldiers must come home NOW... Posted by: Jo on April 8, 2004 12:23 AMThere is suppose to be a piece on MSNBC tonight on Scarborogh (ugh) that actually discovers the truth, that Bush Sr is and was against the Iraq war. I would say there is trouble in the Bush family for this to come out on that program. Posted by: Pat on April 8, 2004 12:30 AMexactly, Pat. if a bear shits in the woods....lol. Anyway, EVERYBODY!!!!!!!! please, please go to Michael Moore's site, with a plea from moveon, NO, (not for money), even more important!!!: http://www.michaelmoore.com/takeaction/index.php Posted by: Peg on April 8, 2004 12:30 AMPeg, screw up the war and prolong it means more profits for the corporate suppliers and justification for keeping the US military in the region. Shades of vietnam strategies. Posted by: Jeanie on April 8, 2004 12:31 AMI was informed today through the local arts council who sends me out to NYC schools to teach teachers that visiting artist's must be fingerprinted by the Dept of Education to get work. I wrote back that the request made my skin crawl. May give up these jobs. Called my vendor/agent who sends me out to give workshops at the elementary schools and so far she has not heard about that. A few weeks ago I needed to see a bank officer and after our brief meeting he asked to enter my ID card info into the computer to comply with the Patriot Act. I asked if it was required. Learning that it was not I grabbed my wallet with the ID away and blurted, 'I don't give a s*** about the Patriot Act, No Way'! His mouth was agape, too bad. Posted by: bhakti on April 8, 2004 01:07 AMbhakti, OMG, bhakti. I'm sorry, it's such a shock when it hits you in the face like that. To revisit Jo's very important post by answer: http://www.iacenter.org/iraq_0409.htm Posted by: Peg on April 8, 2004 01:34 AMJo - That was great stuff from those Iraq blogs! Thank you for posting all of that. Posted by: Nancy on April 8, 2004 02:03 AM"Some times a cigar is just a cigar. S. Freud I would dearly love to believe that the apparent incompetence and mendacity by our leaders in Iraq is part of some 'chaos theory' strategy. Why? Because that would indicate that these folks actually have a plan. This notion, I am afraid, is an example of wish fulfillment on the part of its proponents (no offense intended, as I said, I want to believe it). The simple, overwhelming conclusion is this: the people running our Iraq strategy are idiots!!! I believe that they really thought: --Iraqi's would welcome us In addition to the stupidity of our leaders, the chaos theory undoes itself by its results. We simply can't run the country without more troops. Even in that case, it will be a challenge since there are millions of very angry Iraqi's and many of them own automatic weapons (teenage boys in Iraq learn how to use these as a rite of passage). The poor people of Iraq are suffering from collective 'reactive attachment disorder' -- a condition seen in children who live for several years in environments of extreme abuse or neglect. There is no good outcome: if we prevail, we will go broke; if we fail, we invite more attacks. IMPEACH BUSH NOW!!! Posted by: mike on April 8, 2004 02:07 AMBakti, I think the thing with the school may have more to do with criminal background checks for people working with children (pedophelia type things etc.), rather than government patriot act related. Unfortunately the crimes of a few end up by punishing the vast majority. Posted by: Jeanie on April 8, 2004 02:23 AMMike, You're absolutely correct in that they have no "plans" - just concepts, goals... sometimes ya just got to play it by ear, you know, anything to wipe those terrorists out! We've got to "pacify" the Middle East... that's the plan... protect the oil fields at all costs... The Neocons never factor in what "others" will do. After all, they've got the military might, the POWER... what's to stop them? Carbon units? See, the problem with you is, you're an intelligent, compassionate, thinking person who carries the process through, and comes up with "they're idiots" --- you're right of course, but try telling that to folks who think nothing of dropping MOABs on civilians... who call civilians "terrorists", extremists, thugs, etc. Why just ten days or so ago, Karl Rove called the FBI, the local police and swat teams to get rid of a couple of busloads of children who came to his house to talk about their education... if he had had a button to push, he probably would have blown them away himself... I agree completely with you - the "chaos theory" sucks --- but evidence seems to point to Bremmer ... Posted by: Jo on April 8, 2004 02:40 AMSometimes a cigar is just a cigar. I do think that there will be competion of news stories between Condi Rice's testimony and the war in Iraq because of all the violence. It always seems to be that way. Posted by: Pat on April 8, 2004 02:40 AMJo, mon dieu -- "you're an intelligent, compassionate, thinking person." I am ready to revise and amend my opinion. Nothing about these guys would surprise me, not even the invocation of such a silly theory. While I'm open on the 'chaos theory' revision, I'm firm on the 'reactdive attachment' analogy for the population of Iraq. This is not a racial, ethnic, or cultural statement. ANY mass population consistently abused over a thirty year period would behave in ways that make no sense to us, the semi-civilized leaders of the free world. It's a grim picture that gets more desparate by the hour (apparently we bombed a Mosque full of insurgents). In the imortal words of Rodney King: 'Can't we all just learn to get along' (as LA burned). Posted by: mike on April 8, 2004 03:08 AMI tend to agree with Mike on this. I think we tend to overestimate the control and manipulation the bushies are actually capable of. They are basically idiots, blinded by ideology. They want to show our power and our "humanitarianism". But they all live in la la land and had great expectations of this invasion. They were completely and totally off the mark. Now they are doing damage control and are truly in an impossible situation. Uranus is opposite the Ascendant of Iraq til mid-August, wreaking havoc with the physical reality of the country (Asc). It will remain incendiary for a while, and the bushies will look worse and worse. I don't even know what the answer is at this point. Maybe we have to come to terms with having an Islamic country run by ayatollahs. At least if there is someone in control, maybe they can keep out terrorists. Seems to me if they would agree to trade oil in dollars and keep out terrorists, we should just let them have their country. The Bushies need ot let go of their plans for a military center in Iraq that controls the region and also let go of their corporate plans to own all the resources of Iraq. Posted by: Nancy on April 8, 2004 03:40 AMWe judge others by ourselves...........therefore, since the neocons accused Clinton of going into Bosnia as a distraction from Monica...........they may be using that ploy as a distraction from the 9/11 investigation. In spite of their hand chosen panel, it's not going well for them! Excellent read. Never Having to Say 'Sorry' One could argue there is stiff competition for the most-incredible-comment-from-the-mouth-of-Condoleezza-Rice award, but the winner may be her assertion that she can think of nothing more that the Bush administration could have done to prevent the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. More http://globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO404A.html Washington's Hidden Agenda: Restore the Drug Trade The Spoils of War: Afghanistan's Multibillion Dollar Heroin Trade
The heroin business is said to be "filling the coffers of the Taliban". In the words of the US State Department: "Opium is a source of literally billions of dollars to extremist and criminal groups... [C]utting down the opium supply is central to establishing a secure and stable democracy, as well as winning the global war on terrorism," (Statement of Assistant Secretary of State Robert Charles. Congressional Hearing, 1 April 2004) According to the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC), opium production in Afghanistan in 2003 is estimated at 3,600 tons, with an estimated area under cultivation of the order of 80,000 hectares. (UNODC at http://www.unodc.org/unodc/index.html ).An even larger bumper harvest is predicted for 2004. The State Department suggests that up to 120 000 hectares were under cultivation in 2004. (Congressional Hearing, op cit): "We could be on a path for a significant surge. Some observers indicate perhaps as much as 50 percent to 100 percent growth in the 2004 crop over the already troubling figures from last year."(Ibid) "Operation Containment" In response to the post-Taliban surge in opium production, the Bush administration has boosted its counter terrorism activities, while allocating substantial amounts of public money to the Drug Enforcement Administration's West Asia initiative, dubbed "Operation Containment." The various reports and official statements are, of course, blended in with the usual "balanced" self critique that "the international community is not doing enough", and that what we need is "transparency". So Much More...... Posted by: Pat on April 8, 2004 01:14 PMPat, The stench from this Admin is beyond "stink" --- Posted by: Jo on April 8, 2004 01:21 PMArrest Warrant For Sadr 'Illegal': Iraqi Judges BAGHDAD, April 7 (IslamOnline.net) – As the Iraqi Governing Council Wednesday, April 7, urged investigations into the American military use of "deliberate" force against civilians, the Iraqi Jurists Association said the arrest warrant against Shiite leader Muqtada Sadr is "illegal and based on a lie". "The arrest warrant is illegal and incorrect, as the occupation forces issued it in disregard for sovereignty of Iraq's justice system," the Association said in a statement a copy of which was obtained by IslamOnline.net. More... http://www.islamonline.org/English/News/2004-04/07/article03.shtml Posted by: Jo on April 8, 2004 01:25 PMHearing began at 9:03am EST Washington, DC She (Rice) was sworn in at 9:05am EST Posted by: Pat on April 8, 2004 02:07 PMJo! That's incredible!! Now this ">http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/08/national/08PANE.html?hp> Article in the NYT about how Hamilton and Kean are trying to get the committee members to 'soften' their questioning of Rice so they don't appear partisan. This is supposedly a reaction to the harsh partisan questioning of Clarke (by the Bush toadies on the panel). Notice how the goddamned rules ALWAYS change when a republican is in the firing line!!!!! Can they make the IOKIYAAR rule more obvious? Kerrey is balking it seems... Softballs for Rice and curveballs/sliders/beanballs for Clarke. Posted by: Pat on April 8, 2004 02:11 PMPat, we just got one big piece and if we get NOTHING else, it will be enough! Richard Ben-Veniste Richard Ben-Veniste is a partner in the Washington law firm of Mayer, Brown, Rowe & Maw. He served as assistant U.S. attorney, Southern District New York, from 1968 to 1973, which included service as chief of the Special Prosecution Section from 1971 to 1973. Mr. Ben-Veniste was chief of the Watergate Task Force of the Watergate Special Prosecutor's Office from 1973 to 1975 and Special Outside Counsel Senate Committee on Government Operations from 1976 to 1977. Comm. Ben-Veniste in typical 'prosecutorial' style asked Dr. Rice if the "President had called a meeting of the FBI, etc. after receiving the 8/6/2001 PDB" [Dubya was in Crawford, Rice in Washington] Rice resumed parroting that the PDB was not a warning, but a 'history' requested earlier by the President... Ben-Veniste interrupted her to say that if she would declassify the PDB the Comm could make a judgement on their own... she quickly responded that she was prepared to submit the PDB in its entirety declassified and that she was aware that Ben-Veniste has had access, excessive access (in her words) to the document! Apparently, Tenet leaked the PDB to the Commission or to Ben-Veniste and that is why Demos have been clamoring for its release by the WH, which must now release it as everyone already knows whats in it... and she must spend as much time this a.m. defending the President's deficiency in remaining "on vacation" and not meeting or treating this PDB with any appreciation for its significance... Treason! Treason! Let the Repugs defend that inaction! P.S. networks ought to be horsewhipped for not televising Clarke's testimony... and today giving Condi center stage, hoping to give Bush support. I forgot the critical part in above post... "Did the president meet with the director of the FBI between August 6 and September 11?" "I will have to get back to you on that, I'm not certain." Heading/Name of the PDB was "Bin Laden To Attack Within the US" Got that? TREASON!
This is not an inquiry, it is a reelection bid. As a Scorpio she would bite the frog.... Posted by: wv on April 8, 2004 04:34 PMI saw that Jo. It made my heart happy. She then began to filibuster him with all her might. There really should be some good stuff coming back to bite her in the back side. Posted by: Pat on April 8, 2004 04:57 PMLOTS of kidnappings in Iraq; threats to burn the Japanese alive: The official named the man as Gary Teeley, a British contractor. He was abducted on Tuesday and had not been heard of since. He said on Thursday efforts were under way to locate him. In a separate incident, Arab television Al Jazeera said an Iraqi group was holding three Japanese citizens and had threatened to kill them if Japan did not withdraw its forces from Iraq. The hostages were shown wearing civilians clothes. Passports shown on the video gave the woman's name as Takato Nahoko and the two men as Noriaki Imai and Soichiro Koriyama. At least one of them had a press identification card. Japan vowed on Thursday to make no hasty decisions about its 550 non-combat troops in the southern city of Samawa after explosions near their camp. Meanwhile Seven South Korean members of a church group have been detained by an armed group in Iraq, South Korea's Yonhap news agency reported. An unnamed Iraqi group had detained eight Korean church ministers and released one later, it said. U.S.-ally South Korea has 600 military engineers and medics in Iraq and plans to send 3,000 more for reconstruction. MSNBC has a poll going: Did Condi make her case, vote yes or no -- Posted by: Jo on April 8, 2004 05:31 PMCNN has a poll going, too. Should the 8/6/01 intelligence memo to Smirky be declassified? Posted by: shylurker on April 8, 2004 06:00 PMI just had a "down the rabbit hole " experience... took my granddaughter to Wal-Mart for some last min. items for easter baskets... didn't want to go there in first place, but this small town offers no alternative and I was pressed for time... to make a long story short, the computer overcharged me $1.00 on $14 total --- I bought three different items, 3 of each... I told the cashier the ticket was wrong, and she would not even bother to check the figures, but said stupidly, the $1 is for grass... to which I replied "the grass is 4/$1 and computer rang each as $.25 so there should not have been an additional $1 and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to add the items in your head and come up quickly with the total which is $1 off the computer... "well, go to customer service, and blah blah" I serenely announced that Wal-Mart had recently been caught overcharging 800,000 card holders and now it seems they are doing so on a cash basis also... my granddaughter was "mortified" that I had "made a scene" and when I tried explaining that Wal-Mart is ripping us all off, she naively replies "they wouldn't do that, they know they can't get away with it" to which I replied "of course they can get away with it because people don't check their tickets and when they do find an error they won't take the extra time for a dollar or more to go to customer service... I am more concerned that my 14 yr old granddaughter can't see the reality of what is going on... is this what is wrong with the 31% on the CNN poll who do not think the 8-6-2001 Memo should be declassified? The gov't/ establishment/ corporations wouldn't do that to us? Posted by: Jo on April 8, 2004 07:43 PMThe 31% on the CNN poll who don't want the 8/6/01 memo released either do not think, admire the guilty or share the guilt. Posted by: shylurker on April 8, 2004 07:56 PMhttp://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=44767 Shylurker, You might want to take a look at Buzzflash's ed today... they are riproaring mad, as we all should be... "Just call us radical, but after you do, just answer this question? If the American Revolution were fought today, who would be standing up and fighting on the side of the Minutemen at Lexington and Concord, and who would be fighting on the side of the "Lobster Coats" representing King George? We know we don't look very good in red, how about you? A BUZZFLASH EDITORIAL Hey, I don't even like the color red... Posted by: Jo on April 8, 2004 08:24 PMThinking Unthinkable Thoughts There’s nothing the least bit wild-eyed or hysterical about David Ray Griffin. In person, he’s disarmingly calm, and speaks in the unflappably precise and deliberate style of a lifelong academic. Which is exactly what Griffin is. A respected philosopher of religion at the Claremont School of Theology since the 1970s and longtime Santa Barbara resident, Griffin is now raising questions that even President Bush’s harshest critics are afraid to think, let alone ask aloud. more... http://independent.com/news/news906.htm Posted by: Jo on April 8, 2004 08:32 PMcheck out the article about the Walmart Heirs on blackcommentator.com. They are backing the voucher program, with mucho bucks!!!!! Jo, your granddaughter is 14. Many girls around that age do not want to be seen with their mother or grandmother--or any adult for that matter. They're in that intermediate age and are insecure about how they'll be viewed by their peers and blah-blah-blah. Let's ask Mike to explain it since he seems to be so well-versed in such matters. You did the right thing and, while she may not appreciate it right now (you made a SCENE?), she will later I'm sure. Posted by: shylurker on April 8, 2004 10:44 PMhttp://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/4/8/155512/0729 PROOF BUSH KNEW about 911 Holy SH ##@ .... Gov. Jeb Bush puts the state of Florida under Martial Law on 9/7/01 days before 9/11 and guess where George W. Bush was on 9/11 ...Take a wild guess where Shrub was hiding out ....yes in an elementary school class ...in you got it... FLORIDA ....They KNEW ... Why do you think Bush was not quick to leave the school when he was initally informed of the planes going into the WTC ...these guys {BUSHES} have the blood of 3000 American on their hands... EXECUTIVE ORDER NUMBER 01-261 http://www.capitolgrilling.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/1/11699.html --------------- The second link above declares Fl a state of emergency signed 9/11/2001 BEFORE New York or Washington, DC declared a state of emergency... the first Exec Order expired at termination or 6/2003 whichever came first, and 2nd replaces or negates the 1st, has no expiration date and is still in effect... Florida is presently under Marshall Law, according to author cited in 2nd link above... Peace Posted by: Jo on April 8, 2004 10:54 PMFrom Tom Paine today: Getting Us Out Never Apologize The Exit Door Whose Benefit? Up In Arms I looked up the 2nd Executive Order and article at link above is correct, there is no expiration date and no indication of when state of emergency will be lifted... Florida is presently under a state of emergency... suspension of norm? I apologize for misspelling above, I was cutting and pasting... "martial law" is more accurately "martial rule" --- and can occur only in time of war (act of war)--- but state of emergency? that's a good question... see link below for clarity on martial law/rule http://academic.udayton.edu/health/syllabi/Bioterrorism/8Military/MaritalLaw01c.htm Posted by: Jo on April 8, 2004 11:25 PMThanks for the 'martial' correction. I didn't want to be an old scold. Posted by: shylurker on April 8, 2004 11:30 PMJo: I thought everybody knew THAT about the state THAT'S THE LEAST OF OUR WORRIES!!! Posted by: corleonis on April 9, 2004 12:32 AMJo: I thought everybody knew THAT about the state THAT'S THE LEAST OF OUR WORRIES!!! Posted by: corleonis on April 9, 2004 12:32 AMFrom www.cnn.com Are you satisfied with Condoleezza Rice's testimony about 9/11? Jo, I didn't see where Jeb's order said marshall law. To me it seemed to be a sort of housekeeping thing updating/renewing paperwork regarding the role of Florida's national guard, original EO 01-17 dated January 19 2001. Interesting though while I was doing a search, I came across floridadisaster.org where they put together disaster plan in 1999, updated in May 2001 includes planning in case of terrorism. Posted by: Jeanie on April 9, 2004 12:49 AMJo, I totally missed this......sorry. "Pat,
Did you know old Bushie is down in Crawford entertaining the NRA and some hunters? That's where he was today. Hmmmm cnn now wants to know if you're "satisfied" with Rice's testimony. Posted by: shylurker on April 9, 2004 01:37 AMCorleonis, Jeanie, you are correct... the website I pasted from called it 'martial law' but the Executive Order itself (both, 9/07 and 9/11) refer to it as state of emergency... 'martial law' is a term oft applied to suspension of norm, state laws, etc. by some websites, etc. which is why I added that I could only garner from the executive orders that it was a "suspension" of norm... no where is the word "military used" --- however, it is noteworthy that the "suspension of norm" remains to date... in other words, the power is strictly in the hands of the governor... and this Executive Order has not been suspended... which makes me wonder, "paranoid conspiracy nut" that I am... how many other states have such executive orders in place... ? Posted by: Jo on April 9, 2004 02:34 AMPat, I do genealogy, history, born and reared in the South... cannot for the life of me figure how the good ol' boys, the rednecks, who have had to work all their lives, whose ancestors worked hard, with no land, glorify the Civil War, which in my opinion (and both my maternal and paternal ancestors have been in south for 300/400 years) is stupid, considering they were fodder then, and are fodder now... go figure! They idolize a man who cares not one iota for their little finger! Who would send them to their death to secure the oilfields of the world... and they drive around with their pickups decorated with "W" and US flag and signs saying "nuke the ***" --- what part of "real world" did I miss? These are the votes that may put Dubya back in the WH, no matter how many innocents we kill in the next eight months. Pat links to Thomas Paine piece above... we need to call this war what it is... insane... we need to stop the slaughter NOW... Posted by: Jo on April 9, 2004 02:50 AMOH MY! You have to read the newest StarIQ article. Exactly!! http://www.stariq.com/Main/Articles/P0005299.HTM Posted by: Pat on April 9, 2004 02:51 AMGood reading from Truthout: Bill Moyers | Winning the War on Terror Steve Weissman | Hold Tight: Iraq's War Has Just Begun Testimony of Condoleezza Rice Before 9/11 Commission U.S. Loses Control of Two Iraqi Cities 9/11 Panel to Probe FBI Informant's Tip Seymour M. Hersh | The Other War 9/11 Blunders Left Workers, Residents Literally in the Dust Patrick Sabatier | The Worst Scenario U.S. Terrorism Policy Spawns Steady Staff Exodus Naomi Klein | The Battle the U.S. Wants to Provoke re: skylurkers suggestion that i comment on jo's grand daughter...not to fret, the kid spotted the scam, she just wanted accoutrements for the easter basket...sounds like an advanced, thoughtful 14 year old with her priorities set right!!! on another matter, i think i may be seeing things. was condi rice actually smiling/smirking throughout her entire testimony? talk about inappropriate affect! this woman would smile at a hanging. i had a similar sense of disbelief when i watched the bush speech from the white house just after 9/11 when he broke down and started crying. i'm a dc area resident and it's impossible to find anyone around here who will remember that. somebody tell me it's true. rice was truly pathetic in the 'hallow men' sense of the word. she's a droid sociopath. for those of you expecting a perry mason moment at today's hearing, do not despair. they don't happen with people this versed working under a tight time limit. rice blew it on the big one, the title of the presidential briefing (she smiled, i swear it) and she littered the meeting and airwaves with numerous other inconsistencies and lies. our press cannot multitask and it will take them a few days, with their linear logic, to pounce (like a 17 year old cat) on the hot items. Posted by: mike on April 9, 2004 03:45 AMMike, thanks for the assessment on my grand daughter... but most esp., for the label for Condi... a droid... sociopath... how perfectly that fits! thank you for calling, labeling what some of us were feeling... Posted by: Jo on April 9, 2004 04:02 AMMike, is it inappropriate for them to be smirking or are they letting us know via "body language" what their involvement is and/or how much they care about the consequences? Posted by: shylurker on April 9, 2004 05:11 AMskylurker, it is 'poetically appropriate' indeed but agravating nevertheless. this person rice (and i use the term in its broadest sense) is beyond accountability and shame. she 'blew the big one' and many died and many more suffer. as a matter of fact, she's blown everything: the israel-palestine peace process, iraq, islamic terrorism, our relationship with europe, national and world security with regard to environmental threats, the future of the military (who will join the guard/reserve after this), the trust of people in the government. she is an abomination. Posted by: mike on April 9, 2004 05:46 AMhttp://afr.com/articles/2004/02/19/1077072774981.html US COMMANDER WILL NOT TAKE BLAME FOR UNREST America's top commander in Iraq has warned Washington that he will not be "the fall guy" if violence in the country worsens, it emerged yesterday, as word leaked out that US generals are "outraged" by their lack of soldiers. Posted by: on April 9, 2004 08:03 AMNot only did Jebbie declare martial law about the time the rest of those maggots knew something BIG was going to happen, when the planes hit - the first words out of his mouth were "is it the terrorists?". Re my posts above Florida state of emergency: I googled South Carolina and came up with Executive Order on 9-11-2001 similar in wording to Florida's of same date... also, it was rescinded on 9-13-2001 http://www.state.sc.us/epd/public/news/terrorist_execorder.html http://www.state.sc.us/epd/public/news/terrorist_execorder2.html I'm sure if I researched further I would find that all 50 states issued a similar Executive Order on 9-11-2001 and most have been rescinded. I can not find where Florida's has been rescinded, but I may have not performed a diligent enough search... point I am making is why the Executive on 9-07-2001 BEFORE the attacks of 9-11-2001 [and the excuse that it was for a dress rehearsal of emergency preparedness just does not stand... executive orders are just that ... they are not created willy-nilly... and if indeed the ex ord of 9-11-2001 in Florida is still standing, why? I won't post on this again just wanted to clarify above posts. Peace Posted by: Jo on April 9, 2004 01:09 PMJo, very accurate description of the Southern just-barely-getting-by GOP voters. As some astute observers said during the War Between the States--"Rich man's war--poor man's fight." That certainly is true today. The GOP (stands for Greed, Oil, and Pietism) isn't selling facts--it is selling an illusion and a brand identification. People who are just getting by don't have time, energy, or resources to find the facts--they are identifying with the brand--the manly Marlboro man, the Christian crusader, the good ol' boy in cowboy boots who ain't as glib as those smarty-pants intellectuals who make fun of Southerners. If only they knew the contempt the Bushies have for them. They would be furious. What can we do to dispell the illusion? I've been trying to think of ways to do that. Posted by: Barbara on April 9, 2004 01:23 PMMy 'body language' lessons taught me that smile/smirk on the face of the apologizer/explainer of serious matters/consequences means that they are lying! The muscles of the body will not lie even when words do. Posted by: bhakti on April 9, 2004 01:49 PM
On April 23 late in the afternoon, there will be a Moo Mars conjunction opposite Pluto (Moon/Mars conjunct US Mars). This falls right on the MC/IC axis in DC. On April 24 the Mars Pluto oppsition gets tighter all day til it is exact around midnight. This could get really nasty. Posted by: Nancy on April 9, 2004 03:44 PMhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1188897,00.html (Strategy Insurgents are targeting forces of smaller countries, exposing the weaknesses in the Pentagon's plans -Ewen MacAskill, diplomatic editor Friday April 9, 2004 Posted by: Pat on April 9, 2004 04:52 PMJO, I found your comments on the southern mentality to be right on the mark. I have lived here in the deep south now for 14 years, moved from the north, and still find what goes on here to be like living in another world. Their belief system has been so engrained in them that they would not see the truth if it hit them in the face. As I write this a huge group of southern Baptists has gathered on a field below the hill where I live to break ground for a new church which will cost several million dollars. To pay for the church members of the congregation have been asked to second mortgage their homes (not an uncommon practice here it seems). Two of my neighbors who are well educated have joined this church and have sold their houses and raided their childrens college funds and given the proceeds to this church - they will now live in a small apartment in town. They are not the only ones doing this. They drive nice cars with American flags and "Bush Cheney" stickers on them and several have held prayer vigils in their homes for "our President" who they think has been appointed by God to lead this country. When I asked one of them who has young boys what they would do if their child was called up to fight a war that was started under falce pretences they told me they would support their President and consider it an honor for their sons to go to war if called! They defend the Republican viewpoints and they are like so many others here in the south who will vote Repubican no matter what and will always have that "good ol'boy" mentality that lumps God-Flag-Country into one lump regardless of the facts swirling around them.These are the same people that watch Fox news and Rush Limbaugh and consider what is heard there the Gospel truth. If you speak to them about what is going on under their noses they refuse to listen and say they would rather have a Republican in the White House than any "liberal". I wish there were something that would open their eyes but we have just learned to keep our mouths shut anymore. Posted by: Siobhan on April 9, 2004 05:16 PMhttp://mailman.mit.edu/pipermail/peace-announce/2004-January/000231.html 2004 Predictions by Albert Stephens very interesting http://www.seeingbeyond.com/2004AlbertStephens.asp * 'Dark matter' This summer, the human race will pass a sinister milestone. It will come quietly, creeping like a thief in the night--a starless night, the sky blanked by a minatory shadow. For while the world's attn will be turned this July toward the bloody carnage erupting in Iraq after the illusory turnover of "sovereignty" by the still-entrenched occupation force, & riveted by the flood of sewage pouring from the WH as the prez campaign reaches critical mass, the US will break a long-held taboo & launch the 1st weapon into the global commons of outer space. ... http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2004/04/09/120.html Posted by: JoannaOregon on April 9, 2004 06:03 PMSo, Joanna, Namaste Posted by: Jo on April 9, 2004 06:16 PMLaurie, Thanks so much for posting the Stephens predictions. They are very interesting. There is, however, one omission: the last time Uranus went through Pisces, the Nazi Party was established and seized power in Germany. I do wish he had addressed that. Claudia Dikinis (who contributes to this site now and again) in particular has cautioned about it. Posted by: shylurker on April 9, 2004 06:34 PMBelieve me the blind who just follow along are the 'not sees' = Nazis. BTW, went to my local stationary store and the price sticker on my post-its said $2.29 and the cash register rang up $2.69. I questioned the clerk who gave me moronic reasonings :it's the tax included ,yeah right .40 tax. And 'I don't know that 's what the computer says'. He became exasperated at my challenging his meaningless replies and sent me over to ther other register being operated by the store owner who gave me respect. I thought about Jo's question and people rather follow a robot/computer that think for themselves any more. Thus the blind idolization of that robot GW. Posted by: bhakti on April 9, 2004 06:49 PMConfiscating a reporter's tapes: Do Scalia's tactics violate First Amendment? http://www.smirkingchimp.com/article.php?sid=15703&mode=&order=0&thold=0 *** From www.dictionary.com~ rube ~ n. Slang rube ~ n : not very intelligent or interested in culture [syn: yokel, hick, yahoo, hayseed, bumpkin, chawbacon] BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA!!!! I love it!!! Can you TELL me Synchronicity is not working against these guys??? ~D Posted by: Dommael on April 9, 2004 06:55 PMSo I wonder if Powell has asked for HELP and has been turned down flatly by our European friends? Can America afford to tread water until a new Administration comes in before Europe will lend us a hand (since the current regime is totally delusional)? He was also trying to one up Nader in Wisconsin...yeah well. Kerry on Iraq: Bush should ask for help http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/09/kerry.iraq.ap/index.html And if Iraq wasn't enough..... http://sg.news.yahoo.com/040409/1/3jdy5.html Posted by: Teresa on April 9, 2004 08:27 PMThe shadow world of this Government detailed: http://www.motherjones.com/news/dailymojo/2004/04/04_505.html Posted by: Siobhan on April 9, 2004 08:37 PM
Absolutely agree,wv, on the cartoon web site! Posted by: Raj on April 9, 2004 08:53 PMshylurker - No, it does not bode well at all. To give you an idea of how stressful the aspects on April 21 through April 24 could be, consider this: June 5, 1968, Bobby Kennedy was shot, after just winning the Ca. primary. (approx 8:15?). US natal Mars 21Gemini23; Transiting Mars 19Gemini49 (around 8:15 PM in LA); Transiting Pluto 20Virgo11 Asc 19 Sag at 8:15 PM in LA April 23, 2004 around 4:20 PM: US natal Mars 21Gemini23; Transiting Mars 21Gemini25; Transiting Pluto 22Sag00 R; Transiting Moon 21Gemini16; Transiting MC 21 Gemini The whole period leading up to the opposition within one degree orb is very dangerous. In 1968 Pluto had already crossed the square to US Mars twice and was waxing again toward the square for the last time on June 5. In the coming opposition, Pluto is moving toward opposition US Mars for the second pass. It is not good that the Moon/Mars trigger of this aspect comes on the MC in DC. Posted by: Nancy on April 9, 2004 10:27 PMNO APOLOGIES Condi never expressed remorse during her 9/11 testimony. And Bush can’t bring himself to admit he was wrong about Iraq. - It would have been nice to hear an apology or even some remorse from Condoleezza Rice. But that’s not this administration’s style. She stuck to the party line that President Bush did all he could before 9/11, a position that is not supported by the facts. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4703084/ Posted by: kap on April 9, 2004 10:49 PMIf you missed last night's Daily Show on Condy it is a must see. I think it is repeated tonight at 7. He covered everything in 10 minutes. He showed how Condi apologized by blaming the FBI, Clinton, structural problems, etc. Everything asked about was not her responsibility. It was just hilarious. Posted by: Nancy on April 9, 2004 11:34 PMI guess they are all riding Jupiter....for now. Posted by: Pat on April 9, 2004 11:36 PMMy Jupter remark was to kap. I'll try to catch the repeat tonight Nancy. Posted by: Pat on April 9, 2004 11:38 PMNancy, Jo, according to the German Ephemeris, Jupiter goes direct May 5 - 6. Posted by: shylurker on April 10, 2004 01:13 AMhttp://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=aysaehvbnNPo&refer=us U.S. Forces in Iraq Pull Out of Baghdad's Sadr City, AFP Says April 9 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. soldiers in Baghdad evacuated police stations and the town hall in Baghdad's Shiite Muslim district of Sadr City after five days of fighting with supporters of cleric Moqtada al-Sadr, Agence France-Presse reported. The district, called Saddam City under ousted President Saddam Hussein, is now named after al-Sadr's father, who was assassinated in 1999. It has been one of the centers of violent attacks against U.S.-led occupation forces in the past week. U.S. troops pulled out of the central police station in Sadr City, six other police posts and the town hall, AFP said, without giving further details. ------------- see http://talkingpointsmemo.com During her testimony Thursday Condi mentioned several times that "we had only been in office 233 days" --- Josh Marshall reminds us Dubya is now completing 233 days of vacation at his ranch --- his 33rd visit (not to mention time at other locations, which brings total to 500 days) since he entered the White House --- some 40% of his time in office to date... !! [just think how big a mess he could have created if he had stayed on the job more!] Posted by: Jo on April 10, 2004 01:22 AM Just imagine how things might have turned out if Smirky & Co. had spent as much time with the intelligence people in the summer of 2001 trying to figure out what horrific thing OBL was planning as Cheney and Powell spent in preparation for trying to persuade others of the necessity of their Iraq attack in 2003. Posted by: shylurker on April 10, 2004 01:24 AMI wonder how much Georgie is fleecing the taxpayers for "reimbursement" of "official" functions such as hosting foreign dignitaries and other government officials his "home office?" I find it noteworthy that he began his vacation in Crawford the same day he got the PDB from Tenet, Condi was still in Washington according to her testimony on Thursday, so I guess she couldn't read it to him, or explain it to him... and he remained on the ranch until August 31st near as I can tell and there was a meeting on Sep 4th --- according to Clarke, the answer to his frequent requests for a meeting, but Clarke was not allowed to attend... do you think they bothered to discuss the PDB at this meeting? Well, plans were underway in several cities for emergency preparedness drills on Sept 11 when the attacks occurred... and the media, at least NYTimes and Guardian covered the PDB in 2002... saying "George Bush received specific warnings in the weeks before 11 September that an attack inside the United States was being planned by Osama bin Laden's al-Qaeda network, US government sources said yesterday. In a top-secret intelligence memo headlined 'Bin Laden determined to strike in the US', the President was told on 6 August that the Saudi-born terrorist hoped to 'bring the fight to America' in retaliation for missile strikes on al-Qaeda camps in Afghanistan in 1998. Bush and his aides, who are facing withering criticism for failing to act on a series of warnings, have previously said intelligence experts had not advised them domestic targets were considered at risk. However, they have admitted they were specifically told that hijacks were being planned." http://truthout.org/docs_04/010504A.shtml ------------- Condi on Thursday maintained over and over that the memo "was not a warning" it "was a history"! So why haven't we asked them to pack up and leave already? Why aren't they in the docks for treason? Posted by: Jo on April 10, 2004 02:18 AMNancy I read you loud and clear. I also notice that the Sun is in the 8th. MercuryR trian to Pluto adds a lot also. I checked all the charts I have for family and employees and they are all hit. Neptune is in the presidents 8th. Or it also is in the 5th of children. neptune is close to that 16 fixed. PS. I have a friend that told me late on Aug 10 that something big was happening and she was scared. One Year Later - April 9, 2004 Today, the day the Iraqi Puppets hail "National Day", will mark the day of the "Falloojeh Massacre"… Bremer has called for a truce and ceasefire in Falloojeh very recently and claimed that the bombing will stop, but the bombing continues as I write this. Over 300 are dead in Falloojeh and they have taken to burying the dead in the town football field because they aren't allowed near the cemetery. The bodies are decomposing in the heat and the people are struggling to bury them as quickly as they arrive. The football field that once supported running, youthful feet and cheering fans has turned into a mass grave holding men, women and children. More http://www.riverbendblog.blogspot.com/ -------- http://www.crimesofwar.org/thebook/collective-punishment.html Under the 1949 Geneva Conventions, collective punishments are a war crime. Article 33 of the Fourth Convention states: “No protected person may be punished for an offense he or she has not personally committed,” and “collective penalties and likewise all measures of intimidation or of terrorism are prohibited.” By collective punishment, the drafters of the Geneva Conventions had in mind the reprisal killings of World Wars I and II. In the First World War, Germans executed Belgian villagers in mass retribution for resistance activity. In World War II, Nazis carried out a form of collective punishment to suppress resistance. Entire villages or towns or districts were held responsible for any resistance activity that took place there. The conventions, to counter this, reiterated the principle of individual responsibility. The law of armed conflict applies similar protections to an internal conflict. Common Article 3 of the four Geneva Conventions of 1949 requires fair trials for all individuals before punishments; and Additional Protocol II of 1977 explicitly forbids collective punishment. -------------- This needs to be brought to the attention of the media --- Senators, Congressmen --- even the White House --- I am sending emails tomorrow --- this genocide has got to stop. We left Viet Nam because we could not put down the resistance... without napalming the entire country... We have a sociopath in the White House. Namaste Posted by: Jo on April 10, 2004 03:41 AMgood article from the british mirror newspaper (a tabloid but still) about situation in iraq as it stands today Posted by: Isabelle Ghaneh on April 10, 2004 01:18 PMFallujah Bloodbath threatens US-Appointed Iraqi Government with Collapse ...Part of what caused this incipient collapse of the US-appointed Iraqi government is that the US military decided to besiege the entire city of Fallujah to get at insurgents who killed 4 US Blackwater mercenaries last week, even though reports indicated that the guerrillas left the city after the killings. Those guerrillas, supported by civilian demonstrations and desecration of the mercenaries' bodies, announced that they were taking revenge for the Israeli murder of Hamas clerical leader Sheikh Ahmed Yassin. Just as the Israelis and their American amen corner helped drag the US into the Iraq war, so they also have inflamed Iraqi sentiment against the US by spectacular uses of state terror against Palestinians. Both the Sunni and the Shiite uprisings in Iraq in the past week in a very real sense were set off by Sharon's whacking of Yassin, a paraplegic who could easily have been arrested. (Only once Muqtada al-Sadr announced his support for Hamas was he targeted by the Neocon-dominated Coalition Provisional Authority for arrest, convincing him that he had nothing to lose and had better launch an insurgency). More... http://www.juancole.com/ ---------------- http://www.guardian.co.uk/leaders/story/0,3604,1188810,00.html ---------- Bush calls Putin to Discuss Conflict So, Cheney is off to Japan and Dubya is calling Putin... Reagan Repugs must be seething! Posted by: Jo on April 10, 2004 01:53 PMWhat we already knew about the 'transfer of sovereignty', but now Powell says it (is it meant to reassure us?): "Secretary of State Colin Powell said Friday that Iraqi forces will be under U.S. command even after the June 30 transfer of sovereignty, an announcement that is likely to cause added resentment in Iraq. Meanwhile, if the 9-11 commission continues to unearth more information on how Bush was asleep at the wheel (if not worse), this New Yorker can't wait to see the Republicans squirm at their convention here this fall. The NYT also wonders: http://slate.msn.com/id/2098500 Go Vote! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4701027/ If the presidential election were held this week, who would you vote for? * 46972 responses
http://www.nccbuscc.org/cchd/povertyusa/tour2.htm Posted by: WV on April 10, 2004 04:49 PMTo be quite honest, I think the poverty level figure has been set way too low. Posted by: Teresa on April 10, 2004 05:20 PMAny Repug who thinks holding the Convention in NYC and not finding another location soon (like Mars) is smokin' crack! By next week-end GWB will be charcoal (burnt toast!) I recall Nixon hiding out in the White House when the sharks started circling... I know many of you do also... Couple of threads at http://www.dailykos.com you might find interesting reading... apparently the concensus is the NYTimes article last night was the harbinger for the sliding earth, as Sally put it... the water is up to their necks! Posted by: Jo on April 10, 2004 05:30 PMNow they're threatening to behead hostages they claim to have. My heart hurts and I'm having waves of nausea. And Smirky is having a vacation on his ranch. Pray for the hostages and their captors. Posted by: Pat on April 10, 2004 06:33 PMi'm so disgusted with what' going on as well..if i HAD a us flag it would be hung UPSIDE DOWN in front of my bldg right now. i can't believe the world is letting the usa get away with what it's done -- in fallujah and all over the place. how dare we inflict our sorry sick society where half the populace is on meds on these people! what the hell is going on here??? i'm so outraged and filled with frustration. if bush gets in again andt he draft is implemented my husband and i are going to publicly defect from this psycho place! free the people! what the hell are our american soldiers DOING listening to these insane orders??? how stupid can they be????????????????????????????? Posted by: Roxanne on April 10, 2004 06:53 PMCheck out Blumenthal's article in today's Salon. http://www.salon.com/opinion/blumenthal/2004/04/08/condi/ Worth getting a day pass. The inside story of how Condoleezza Rice destroyed the Middle East peace process Worth getting the day pass for that headline alone. The concluding paragraph is wonderfully harsh: The story of the Middle East debacle, like that of the pre-9/11 terrorism fiasco, reveals the inner workings of Bush's White House: The president, aggressive and manipulated, ignorant of his own policies and their consequences, negligent; the secretary of state, prideful, a man of misplaced gratitude, constantly in retreat; the vice president as Richelieu, secretive, conniving, at the head of a neoconservative cabal, the power behind the throne; the national security advisor, seemingly open and even vulnerable, posing as the honest broker, but deceitful and derelict, an underhanded lightweight. Posted by: Pat on April 10, 2004 07:17 PMThis was just posted on Salon's Table Talk. "I was at a party this weekend with someone whose theory was unfortunately quite compelling. That is, that the reason the rethugs have gone into this winner-take-all mode is that, with the breakup of the Soviet Union, they know that the nukes and various weapons, like thermobaric (sp?) bombs can't be secured. They know an attack is likely and they're determined to be the ones in the undisclosed locations and bunkers to take control. They may even be hastening it because they think some sort of reordering, restructuring of nations is necessary for the "right" people to triumph. Remember, these are the same guys who spent all of the '80's "restructuring" American companies with conscience, breaking things up and selling them off to the highest bidder. Why should countries be seen any differently? Secondly, the reason they won't "improve port security" has as much to do with what they're moving out as what they're moving in, or allowing to be moved in. Not just drugs, as in Iran-Contra, but private arms, private troops." Posted by: Pat on April 10, 2004 07:21 PMgloves If no weapons of mass destruction have been found to date in Iraq, what are the gloves for? bpost comment: A small alarm bell is going off that says something is not quite right about this contract but we don't know what it is. Had the contract been awarded earlier in the search for wmd's, or was announced as a replacement order, bpost might feel differently. Pat, The Post and Courier is one of the most conservative newspapers in the world... when I visit my Dad I use it for a barometer for how little truth is getting through to people about Bush... recently there have been quite a few editorials criticizing him... OMG! yeah... 40 years ago you couldn't have mentioned the word Republican without getting shot... my how things have changed... South Carolina is a poor state, not as much so as say New Mexico, but very territorial about its military installations... 2000 they blamed Clinton for closing Navy Base which was a giant sugar t** built during WWII which was supposed to have been a temporary facility! The economy survived... but you can see from your post that they still get a lot of boondoggles! Namaste, Peace and Light to all who are suffering and their families... Posted by: Jo on April 10, 2004 07:46 PMJo there is going to be big demonstration in DC. Uh oh. Posted by: Pat on April 10, 2004 08:09 PMPat, I know about the demonstration in DC --- I was just wondering with the way things are going in Iraq, now... the Coalition has lost control of couple of cities... a psychic said some months back that this summer the USA would do something to scare the world into submission... and it's about two weeks 'til 23rd... help me out, I'm getting paranoid I guess... Here's some new poll results, go to http://www.dailykos.com for more info and some good news :-D It's Those Polls Again... ...and this time it's Newsweek (not reported at Polling Report yet). Without Nader, Kerry leads Bush 50 - 43. [And we'ens ain't even been to bat yet!]
Please, someone, put up a link to the Smirking FISK-Planners of the war in Iraq have just one Thank you, Posted by: corleonis on April 10, 2004 10:01 PMCorleonis, this is all I could find on SC:
No, this article is on the discussion boards and you have to be a member to get in. It is not If you are not a member, maybe Morgana or one of Thank you again for trying, Love, Joy and Peace, Posted by: corleonis on April 10, 2004 10:44 PMRoxanne, I think that "cheneys silent dysfunctional queer daughter" is the only sane one in the bunch! Jonathan Posted by: Jonathan on April 10, 2004 11:06 PMRoxanne! Saw your post about what I wrote. I agree with you about staying in a place that is filled with so much crazy stuff that goes against what we really believe. Unfortunately, my husbands job is here so we are forced to stay for the moment and put up with the flag wavers and religious nut cases. My husband works for the goverment and has decided to take early retirement next year - so planning on getting out then. He told me he and others have been approached about going to Iraq as looking for engineers and skilled gov. people! Time to run! There was a demonstration for peace last week here in our town - only 50 people showed up and endless abuse from people driving by and making nasty comments -stones thrown and several pick up trucks with American Flags on back and rednecks inside shouting obscenities for us to "go to Russia" since we obviously did not share their views of supporting this President and "their" flag. Enough is enough. One guy wearing a shirt with a print of the American Flag and "these colors don't bleed" underneath took down our car license plate tags! So, if this is "freedom" here in America it makes me sick. I don't think the American flag is big enough anymore to cover the sins of this administration and the apathy of the American people who care more about the price of gas for their SUV's than the price they are paying for the loss of democracy. How can people stand around being oblivious to all this when the cries of the dead from our own country's abuses are all around them? I've never felt so ashamed of my country as I am these days. This site has been a God-send for so many .. thanks to all who contribute, you will never know what a life line you are to those of us who have no other means to find others who walk the path of peace. Posted by: Siobhan on April 10, 2004 11:09 PMSiobhan, you're a breath of fresh air. Posted by: Laurie on April 10, 2004 11:39 PMokay jonathan! it's really unfair of both of us to judge - but then saying she's the sanest of that bunch, still probably doesn't bode too well..but if we spent a week living with her, then we could maybe be in a better position to see if daddy dick was actually a good father. so scratch that, it's just my intuition..(which is the same intuition that makes me know my govt is lying, etc..) siob--i'm so glad your husband is leaving next year..hopefully the time will fly. those idiots where you live, i mean really, don't they realize that they're DUPES??? can't someone tell them that the reason their gas prices are so high is all tied in with this crazy stuff: 9/11/greed/usa trying to pimp arab leaders against their people..? and the thing that gets me is that they're so duped..'they'd never go for a liberal'..will you please get a copy of the report that says the gop implored their texas politician to not run soon because of the pics of him in drag that surfaced..then show them the rumours about the texas governor and the secy of state? now i'm not gay bashing here before everyone jumps on me..i'm just saying that this lot get their (minority) vote from people who think they are living some sort of conservative family lives, when they're not. if the truth came out the bottom would fall out... when is the washington dc protest? is it actually on the 23rd? Thanks Laurie & Roxanne. Just had to add this here as one more comment about living in the deep south (Alabama). Last week I took my teenage daughter to see a therapist (college anxiety probs)and while I was waiting in the waiting room I started to talk to the young receptionist since nobody else was there. Lovely girl - she was from "up north" and recognised my N.J. accent. We started to talk about how our lives here were so different since moving here and what a culture and political clash this was. She told me that this therapist was seeing a whole bunch of people who were mostly from out of state and having trouble coping with things since this war started and they felt they could not speak about their anti-war views for fear of being retaliated against. Had to laugh as this girl told me the only "normal" people she sees here anymore is in this therapist's waiting room! And, on a good note my husband tells me the two biggest republican flag wavers in his office are now starting to admit they see "cracks" in Bush's policies. They are still reluctant to vote for Kerry but have now admitted they are thinking of staying home and refraining from voting at all as they are just as disgusted with things themselves .. and this is a huge defence area where people vote for the Repub. President in war time. Maybe there are signs starting to show even now that even the most fanatic republicans are having second thoughts? I hope so! Posted by: Siobhan on April 11, 2004 12:17 AMwell S, that's really great news..yeah as i said, this IS an astro site, and our pros here HAVE predicted by the gop chart, that they are going down, and what you report is further evidence of that. i just don't understand why buchanon isn't running. he would get the biggest vote of his entire career, and may even get more than bushie. he's been completely against the iraq war from the beginning, warned it would be a disaster. but i guess he's afraid, he's probably not exactly into getting the biggest bullet either..either that or the gop is paying him big money to stay out. Be sure to check out the analysis on Star4Cast (right-hand side bar) of Condi and what's waiting for her on the road up ahead. Further confirmation of what's been stated here. Posted by: shylurker on April 11, 2004 12:51 AMFor the Fisk article mentioned above: Informationclearinghouse is one of my favorite stops. Lots of stuff you find on all the other news sites, but others you don't find. It's a one man operation. Kudos to Tom who runs that site!
Eh Coreleonis, I'm not a member either. Personally the I see a Naked Emporer. Posted by: Morgana on April 11, 2004 01:52 AMAug 6 PDB released earlier in evening... if you haven't seen it... go to http://www.dailykos.com Highlights of the report include: ------------- By Roland Watson and David Charter MADRID: President Bush has been told to muzzle Donald Rumsfeld, his provocative Defence Secretary, if he wants to ease European misgivings about war with Iraq. José María Aznar, the Spanish Prime Minister, spoke for many European diplomats and officials, including the British, when he delivered the message while staying at Mr Bush’s Texas ranch last weekend. “I did tell the President that we need a lot of Powell and not much of Rumsfeld,” said Señor Aznar, referring to Colin Powell, the US Secretary of State. “Ministers of Defence should talk less, shouldn’t they? The more Powell speaks and the less Rumsfeld speaks, that wouldn’t be a bad thing altogether.” More...http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_1-3-2003_pg4_7 -------- --------------- US soldiers in Iraq asked to pray for Bush Thousands of marines have been given a pamphlet called "A Christian's Duty," a mini prayer book which includes a tear-out section to be mailed to the White House pledging the soldier who sends it in has been praying for Bush. http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s819685.htm ----------------- Blair vacations in Bermuda as Iraq crisis Mounts http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,1-1068802,00.html CNN wants to know if you think "The Memo" supports the WH's contentions or those of Richard Clarke. (No brainer, I'd say.) Go express yourselves!
Thank you for the link. Morgana: I am sorry if I misunderstood, I thought you AN INSIGHTFUL COMMENT REGARDING ***OUR DROID SOCIOPATH*** Jimmy Breslin, one of the very best columnists in New York City or anywhere else said today of Ms. Rice: "Rice spoke in the language of the total bureaucrat. She belonged behind the counter at the motor vehicles office." The entire article is wonderful: http://www.newsday.com/news/columnists/ny-nybres093747876apr09,0,2858393.column I saw the Presidential Daily Briefing. These people belong in jail for neglecting a clear and present danger. While Ms. Rice is not compelled to come back to the comission for another publichearing, Clarke can come back any time he wants...I'd watch for that. Also watch the White House spin on this document turn increasingly semantic and legalistic. The position of Ms. Rice is apparently as follows: since nobody told me this would happen on the morning of 9/11/01, I'm not responsible. My God! We have 11 more months of these incompetents. The good news is that the chairmen of the 9/11 comission both are on record as saying that this could have been averted. They're ahead of the other comissioners (except the three Dems) and just about everyone else. I wonder (wink, wink) what they know that will come out soon? And I know why Sen. Bob Graham, FL, (who has seen much of this since he's on the joint intelligence committee) was so critical of Bush, ahead of everyone else but Sen. Byrd. Just imagine, the Repugs were grooming Ms. Rice for a senatorial or presidential run. Happy Easter Posted by: mike on April 11, 2004 04:30 AMYeah, Mike, maybe they'll have to wonder what the meaning of 'is' is. Anyone seen "The Fog of War," the Errol Morris documentary based on Robert S. McNamara's autobiography? Very interesting film . . . a must see I think for everyone. Some amazing footage and audio tape . . . LBJ telling the nation in 1967 how important it is to stay the course ... freedom and democracy at stake. And the Repugs say there are no parallels between Iraq and Vietnam. One of my favorite parts is when McNamara tells of his visit to Vietnam in 1995 where he had the chance to meet and have dinner with his counterpart. They argue over the war and McNamara realizes just how mistaken the entire American perception of that war was. We thought it was the cold war, a war against communism and they thought it was a war for independence. The Vietnamese guy said that they were willing to die to the last man. McNamara realizes that no amount of US force would have worked. So chilling how little has been learned in the last 30 years. The lesson of Vietnam never sank in to the American public. We were wrong... 100% wrong in the whole conception of what the war was about. We killed something literally millions for a mistaken cause. Its sobering to remember that LBJ was the moderate then, at least compared to Goldwater. I don't see much difference now with Kerry as our only hope in defeating Bush. Kerry will not remove our troops from Iraq. So many who recognize the war was unjustified still don't understand that this means that our presence there will never be justified. The argument that things will be worse if we withdraw echoes the arguments that prolonged the Vietnam War. Our continued presence in Iraq will only serve to perpetuate the lie that led to the war. I hope Nader continues to run in order to keep the pressure on Kerry. Posted by: Timothy on April 11, 2004 08:56 AMThe whole time I was watching "The Fog of War" I couldn't help but think of this passage from Henry David Thoreau: "The mass of men serve the state thus, not as men mainly, but as machines, with their bodies. They are the standing army, the militia, jailers, constables, posse comitatus, &c. In most cases there is no free excerise whatever of the judgment or of the moral sense; but they put themselves on a level with wood and earth and stones; and wooden men can perhaps be manufactured that will serve the purpose as well. Such command no more respect than men of straw of a lump of dirt. They have the same sort of worth only as horses and dogs. Yet such as these even are commonly esteemed good citizens. Others, --as most legislators, politicians, lawyers, ministers, and office-holders,--serve the state chiefly with their heads; and, as they rarely make any moral distinctions, they are as likely to serve the Devil, without intending it, as God. A very few, as heroes, patriots, martyrs, reformers in the great sense, and men, serve the state with their consciences also, and so necessarily resist it for the most part; and they are commonly treated as enemies by it." ("On the Duty of Civil Disobedience," 1848) It's hard to imagine this passage being read across America today. While watching "The Fog of War" I couldn't help but think of how well McNamara illustrates the second way people can serve the state according to Thoreau. He was certainly brilliant, and ended up serving the Devil... Here's to patriots like Henry David Thoreau and Ralph Nader! We need those who have the courage to serve the state with their consciences. Posted by: Timothy on April 11, 2004 09:08 AMUS tactics condemned by British officers Senior British commanders have condemned American military tactics in Iraq as heavy-handed and disproportionate. The officer, who agreed to the interview on the condition of anonymity, said that part of the problem was that American troops viewed Iraqis as untermenschen - the Nazi expression for "sub-humans". IMHO the American military has adopted Sharon "The Bulldozer's" tactics AND attitudes... the grunts call Arabs ragh**** and sandn****** --- it's ironic isn't it, Blair is supporting present tactics in war (see my post above) while his military and foreign sec'y Jack Straw is critical! ------------ Namaste Posted by: Jo on April 11, 2004 12:24 PMI'm not the only one who believes American military has adopted Sharon's tactics... the Israeli newspaper Haaretz also thinks so... see link for full article http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/413903.html ... "However, the peak of the coordination between the two countries is the current situation, in which for the last few years we have been witnessing a kind of Israelization - or Sharonization - of America: in its attitude toward the threats of terrorism, America is talking and behaving in Iraq like the last of the hawks on the Israeli General Staff. Instead of giving Jerusalem an example of political daring, Washington has become a huge version of the Israeli army's "we'll show them" approach. Sharon's visit there next week will look almost like the hosting of the aged mentor by his slightly maladroit disciple. Calm? On the way to normality? A lot more barbecues will emit a lot more smoke before that happens. " Posted by: Jo on April 11, 2004 12:53 PM
That's exactly what Robert Fisk said in his
That's exactly what Robert Fisk said in his Juan Cole is asking the following: "So, my question is, was Badran gotten rid of and Allawi sidelined because the Pentagon is now at the endgame, intending to shoehorn Chalabi into power in Iraq? Are the rivals to Chalabi, from Muqtada to Allawi, being targetted one after another by Rumsfeld's representatives in Baghdad? We by now know how completely hollow the talk of Rumsfeld and crew about "democratization" is. How many people have been elected to office on a one-person, one-vote basis in Afghanistan, Iraq, or any place else as a result of Rumsfeld's policies? Everyone is appointed or jiggered into office by a manipulated Loya Jirga. Chalabi seems set to be jiggered into office. And, his militia appears not to be considered a threat to democracy, since the Pentagon even flew it into Iraq." more... http://www.juancole.com ------------------------ In a previous post I provided a link to Islamonline that suggested the warrant for Sadr's arrest was "rigged" ----- in light of Juan Cole's comments at his website it may well be that Bremmer intended to create this chaos in order to install Chalabi as PM, but the firestorm is getting out of control... more NEOCON miscalculations!!!!! Or not? maybe that want genocide? beginning to look like it... namaste
Jo - This is certainly a big concern. So far the Pluto transit opposite US Mars has indicated increased violence from our troops. And this is what is triggered in late April, especially from mars 4/21 to 4/15. The biggest culprit in the Iraqi chart is the Uranus transit opposite the Ascendant. This is also triggered on 4/24 through 4/26 by the Sun at 5 Taurus and the Moon at 20 Cancer. I continue to think we may arrest Sadr and then all hell will break loose. I had thought it would bin Laden, but now it looks more like Sadr. Bush has Jupiter stationary on his Mars/prog Sun (victory and aggression). And the US prog Moon is conjunct Jupiter - expansive policies and victory. Posted by: Nancy on April 11, 2004 06:38 PMNancy, I appreciate your answering my question... 'course none of us are thrilled with the analysis... light to all in Iraq, our troops, whom the pResident speaking in Ft. Hood today told us today will remain and he predicts the casualty numbers will continue to rise (you would have thought he was talking about dying flowers or something insignificant instead of the lifeblood of our country... ---------- "According to an article published in Die Zeit, the German newsmagazine, in October 2002, the original PDB is 11 1/2 pages long. English translation here, original German here. Take a look at the pdf itself. The page numbers at the bottom of the pages have been redacted. The White House apparently has released only the first and last pages of an 11 1/2 page document. If 911 is becoming Watergate, then the 9-page gap is a weirdly creepy version of Rosemary Woods' "18 minute gap." Someone should tell Dana Milbank and Walter Pincus." Link for German paper in English Namaste buzzflash is now alerted to the 11-page version. Posted by: shylurker on April 11, 2004 11:28 PMhttp://forum.c0balt.com/viewtopic.php?p=2556#2556
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20040412/COCO12/TPComment/TopStories Posted by: wv on April 12, 2004 01:57 PMFor those of us who have never believed the 'official' story about 9/11, those who are beginning to see the cracks in the 'official' story and those who are still asleep in the cocoon of the 'official' story, comes Justin Ramon to clearly connect a few dots (most of which are out there in so-called 'tin hat' conspiracy theories and in his book) that: ..."The "Bush knew" crowd may think itself vindicated by recent developments, but, as I have pointed out above, this is hardly the case: more than ever, it seems that Bush didn't know, because he was deliberately kept in the dark. Not that he doesn't have to take ultimate responsibility for what happened on his watch. In any case, the evidence points to some level of foreign involvement, albeit not from Iraq: Turkey and Israel are the main suspects, although, for intelligence purposes, there seems little to distinguish the two." ... "As we subject the mysterious prehistory of 9/11 to a close reexamination, the official mythology of that seminal event begins to crumble. Behind the phony façade the truth peaks out, shyly, at first, and then with growing confidence. The 19 terrorists who blew up the Pentagon and took down the World Trade Center couldn't have pulled it off alone: they had to have some form of state assistance, if only passive compliance." Full article http://antiwar.com/justin/ shylurker, where did you find the site, "cobalt"? I don't think I've ever seen it before. Posted by: Pat on April 12, 2004 06:07 PMDecoding thE PDB Are George W. Bush and Condoleezza Rice really as clueless as they are claiming to be? Bush and Rice are both on the record misstating what was in the 6 August 2001 PDB (Presidential Daily Briefing). They both insist the information was only “historical” and “not actionable.” They apparently are not alone in their faux ignorance. Republican partisans and even some members of the media are busy bolstering the spin that this was “an historical memo.” Absolute nonsense! I wrote about 40 PDB’s during my four year tenure at the CIA. This particular PDB article was written in response to a presidential request. I am told that Bush’s request was a reaction to the intelligence warnings he was hearing during the daily CIA morning briefings. Something caught his attention and awakened his curiosity. He reportedly asked the CIA to come back with its assessment of Bin Laden’s intentions. The CIA answered the question—Bin Laden was targeting the United States. The PDB article released Saturday is a classic CIA response to such a request. It lays out the historical and evidentiary antecedents that undergird the analyst’s belief about the nature of the threat and provides current intelligence indicators that reinforce the basic conclusion of the piece—i.e., Bin Laden was determined to attack the United States. It is true that the piece did not contain specific details about the plot that was launched subsequently on 9/11. However, the details that are included in the piece are so alarming that anyone familiar with the nature of Bin Laden and Al Qaeda should have asked, “What are they planning and what can we do to stop it?” http://tompaine.com/feature2.cfm/ID/10224 Posted by: Pat on April 12, 2004 06:17 PMPat, I stumbled upon it. Maybe from Buzzflash or Democrats.com. I don't remember now. Sorry! Posted by: shylurker on April 12, 2004 06:32 PMGreetings all! My latest insight into the nature of the Universe and Monday-morning brainfood appetizer for the week. Enjoy ~ The American people are not dumber than any other earthlings. We've just got billions of dollars of advertising designed to make us think about ourselves, our government and our nation in a certain way. The next time you are putting gas in your vehicle, consider the following phenomenon: Notice how on each side of the gas pump island at Chevron, Shell, Exxon (whatever), the word "Self" is printed on both sides. Now think on this for a moment. When is the last time you saw a *Full-service* gas station? Do you really think that there are so many out there it's necessary to label both sides of every island of every gas station with the word "Self" to differentiate between them? Does it seem likely that billions of dollars in consumer research and legions of well-paid marketing managers and advertising executives have overlooked this superfluous label? Yet, even shiny, newly built gas stations make sure to have the word *Self* printed just above the gas pumps on both sides so they are clearly visible from the street. Whether this seems like an insiduous conspiracy or just an outdated tradition is pretty much irrelevant. The facts are that while you are driving your car, your conscious mind is changing lanes, talking on your cellphone, chilling to some tunes, thinking about the next time you are going to get laid, wishing you had some spliff, whatever. But with every city block you pass, your *subconscious* mind is receiving the following message: :Gas ~ Self:~:Gas ~ Self:~:Gas ~ Self:~:Gas ~ Self:~:Gas ~ Self:~:Gas ~ Self:~:Gas ~ Self:~:Gas ~ Self:~:Gas ~ Self:~:Gas ~ Self:~:Gas ~ Self:~:Gas ~ Self:~:Gas ~ Self:~:Gas ~ Self:~:Gas ~ Self:~:Gas ~ Self:~ Is it any wonder that Americans have such narrow views of the world and their place in it? Is it surprising that many Americans consider the oil in the Middle East to belong to us by manifest destiny? ~D Posted by: Dommael on April 12, 2004 06:46 PMBetter yet, don't buy gasoline gas at Chevron, Exxon, Shell. They are the companies, I've heard, who primarily get their oil from the mideast. Better yet, walk, bike, take the street car, bus, stay home, when able. Namaste, Heya Nancy, Bushy is setting up for a prime time news conference tomorrow night. Any thoughts on his foot and mouth disease? Have a great week everyone! Posted by: Morgana on April 12, 2004 07:04 PMMorgana, he just had a small one and spoke of the news conference tomorrow night. He told the reporters there to think about which of their favorite red or blue ties they would choose to wear. Cute huh? Posted by: Pat on April 12, 2004 07:11 PMNeocon Paul Bremmer is painting a wonderful picture of the future of imperial America with his war crimes' activities in Iraq: ..."In al-Thawra hospital, I met Raad Daier, a 36-year-old ambulance driver with a bullet in his lower abdomen, one of 12 shots fired at his ambulance from a US Humvee. According to hospital officials, at the time of the attack, he was carrying six people injured by US forces, including a pregnant woman who had been shot in the stomach and lost her child. I saw charred cars that dozens of eye-witnesses said had been hit by US missiles, and local hospitals confirmed that their drivers had been burned alive. I also visited Block 37 of Sadr City's Chuadir district, a row of houses where every door was riddled with holes. Residents said US tanks rolled down their street firing into their homes. Five people were killed, including Murtada Muhammad, aged four. And I saw something that I feared more than any of this: a copy of the Koran with a bullet hole through it. It was lying in the ruins of what was Sadr's headquarters in Sadr City. On April 8, according to witnesses, two US tanks broke down the walls of the centre while two guided missiles pierced its roof, leaving giant craters in the floor and missile debris behind." http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1190300,00.html Posted by: Jo on April 12, 2004 07:19 PMYes I saw the replay. Cute isn't selling right now. See anyone in a BLUE TIE won't get recognized by Bushy for a question. I hope they ALL wear screaming angry red ties! Posted by: Morgana on April 12, 2004 07:20 PMPlease recommend excellent astrological analyses of the relationship of Israel and the U.S. And, of course, where that relationship is leading us. Posted by: shylurker on April 12, 2004 07:20 PMMorgana, yes, the message was clear, even from him. Posted by: Pat on April 12, 2004 07:22 PMMaybe black ties, for "WE'VE COME TO BURY YOUR ADMINISTRATION" ------- Posted by: Jo on April 12, 2004 07:22 PMSigns that Sally's prediction of the "slipping ground" is coming true: Everyone on this board, me included, has been slamming my home state: take a look at this! The South may rise again! (not in the Confederate guise though) and on a more personal note, spoke to my Dad this a.m. and he is finally seeing the emperor has no clothes! Thank you universe! Awesome Jo!! I would like to be there if the black tie event came off? Maybe you should send it to the White House Press Corps. Posted by: Pat on April 12, 2004 07:52 PM'The world is as you see it' -yogic aphorism. I would love to see the word 'Self' posted all over. To me 'Self' is a term for the God/Goddess conciousness within all. Corleonis, I believe this is what you were trying to set up: FISK- Planners of the war in Iraq have just one answer to critics: 'shut up' (& US press helps) http://www.smirkingchimp.com/viewtopic.php?topic=38915&forum=17 ~D Posted by: Dommael on April 12, 2004 08:56 PMWould love to see an astrologer's perspective on Scalia or CondiRice 663 And 700 From The Dreyfuss Report With the latest two Americans killed in a helicopter that was shot down Sunday, that makes 663 U.S. soldiers killed in Iraq since the start of the war last March. That's bad. Far worse is the number of Iraqis killed—in just the past week or so. Associated Press reports that since April 1, 700 Iraqis have died in fighting across Iraq, including the dozens killed when U.S. forces rocketed a mosque last week. That's probably greatly underestimating the actual number of dead. In all, uncounted tens of thousands of Iraqis have died, thanks to President Bush's "liberation" of Iraq. http://tompaine.com/blog.cfm/ID/10198 Very long, and very good. Posted by: Pat on April 12, 2004 11:26 PMShylurker, ..."His reputation for brutality stems from the strong Mars in Capricorn opposition to Pluto which creates a need to control through violence if necessary. Misuse of power is often associated with this aspect. Those who carry it in their chart can be perpetrators or victims. His inflexible Taurus Moon (at 25 degrees) also sits beside the fixed star Algol, known as the demon star. It marks Medusa’s severed head and has a reputation for extreme danger and violence. [Algol is an Arabic name – “Al Ghoul” meaning evil spirit or devil]." ----------- Mimi, there is an analysis of Condi Rice on the thread entitled Clarke, Bush and Rice by Isabelle... and more by Sally somewhere in the past 2-3 threads... have you seen a pic of Scalia? Says a 1,000 words... :-) seriously, I don't know of an actual astrological analysis, although I'm sure someone has done one... maybe Star IQ? think mafia... that will get you close... Posted by: Jo on April 12, 2004 11:34 PMUSUK is practicing omnicide... long-term, too (note uranium depletes). Folks are still thinking it's just "a mistake." If the politicians wld just do so & so, all wld be corrected. Of course the murders still go on. Like Africa, where some of us think that a bio WMD was introduced on purpose by corpos/neo-cons/olies, decimate the population so that the land's natural resources can be exploited, & other places, so the same is being practiced on the mid-East... Iraq to be specific. Get the population waaaay down to a newly created docile servant class, & fascist corporatism can merrily continue to have its way. Outlandish? No. Posted by: JoannaOregon on April 12, 2004 11:53 PMJoanna, Amen... Posted by: Jo on April 13, 2004 12:01 AMHere's Bush's News conference time tomorrow night 4/13/2004 Bush plans to open the 8:30 p.m. EDT news conference — the 12th of his presidency, but only his third televised in prime evening viewing hours — Posted by: Morgana on April 13, 2004 12:04 AMHere's the url for Bushy's news conference: Posted by: Morgana on April 13, 2004 12:09 AMMorgana, Mike, Is this entire administration comprised of sociopaths? This is most striking. I do hope you can listen to this. Devastating. http://www.democracynow.org/streampage.pl Posted by: Pat on April 13, 2004 12:16 AMWith regard to Jo's part of the country and previous criticisms of the South: America is divided into three types of areas: PROSPERITY ZONES, ZONES OF SEMI-PROSPERITY; and EVERYWHERE ELSE. If you live in a prosperity zone, you can get good jobs, find some degree of intellectual and artistic experience, and think about more than just getting by. These zones include: Boston, NYC, Washington, DC, parts of Chicago and LA, San Francisco, Portland, and Seattle. Semi-prosperity zones include places like Atlanta, Austin, Denver, & San Diego. In these locations, you've got a chance but are more vulnerable to the vissitudes of the economy. "Everywhere else" is just that, you're stuck with whatever fate or "the man" doles out. Everywhere else is not just south of the Mason-Dixon. Ask someone from Pennsylvania if they're familiar with this description of their state: There's Pittsburg at one end, Philadelphia at the other, and Alabama in between. If you live everywhere else, you lack the money and time to reflect. Your reflexive response to to cling to "God and Country." Without that what do you have? This is obviously a generalization but it explains why people in these areas are so quick to support the pResident and just about any war. They're not stupid or inferior, they're, in a very real sense, victims of the inequities of our economic system. Posted by: mike on April 13, 2004 12:19 AMPosted on Salon FYI- FBI investigator John O'Neill: John O'Neill links I saved: http://www.rightwingslayer.blogspot.com/ http://www.rememberjohn.com/ Pat, Thank you so very, very much! for the John O'Neill links above... they may disappear soon... Posted by: Jo on April 13, 2004 01:32 AMCorleonis, ..."After a private dinner with various Florida politicians (including his brother Jeb) and Republican donors, Bush went to bed around 10:00 p.m. [Sarasota Magazine, 11/01, Washington Post, 1/27/02] Surface-to-air missiles were placed on the roof of the resort [Sarasota Herald-Tribune, 9/10/02], and an Airborne Warning and Control System (AWACS) plane circled high overhead. [Fighting Back: The War on Terrorism - From Inside the Bush White House, by Bill Sammon, 10/02, p. 25] It's not clear if this type of protection was standard for the president or whether security was increased because of possible threats." [name of resort was The Colony Beach and Tennis Resort] http://www.cooperativeresearch.net/timeline/main/essayaninterestingday.html -------------- my point on above is, the pResident slept well protected night of 9/10 with AWACS flying overhead... next day, the AWACS were no where in sight in New York City or Washington, DC... and in July 2001 when Dubya was on one of his infrequent trips abroad (or anywhere other than Crawford, for that matter)to G8 meeting in Genoa he slept on carrier rather than risk staying in hotel because of fear of a "terrorist air attack" http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/2002/05/16_Bush_Knew.html Namaste This link will give you info on 9-11 Hearings tomorrow starting at 9:00 [bet these won't be on networks though] when Attorney General John Ashcroft, Director of Central Intelligence George J. Tenet, FBI Director Robert S. Mueller III will testify before the Commission, as well as former Attorney General Janet Reno, former FBI Director Louis J. Freeh, and former Acting FBI Director Thomas J. Pickard. In addition to witness testimony, four staff statements will be delivered during the course of the proceedings. The hearing will resume at 9:00 a.m. on Wednesday, April 14. --------- So, if the Commissioners get real tough with their questions tomorrow, Dubya's press conference tomorrow evening could be even more interesting? Posted by: Jo on April 13, 2004 02:33 AMJo, all the more reason to copy them. I hope lots of us copy them. Posted by: Pat on April 13, 2004 02:58 AMJo: I am afraid I am the wrong person to ask for any My daughter and her husband had just left Buffalo To make a long story short, I did not locate my All I can tell you is that 'shrub' started exhib- The St. Pete Times has not yet mentioned anything I will keep a sharp look out for anything that can I just saw the most amazing piece on NBC...of all places. They showed Bush being cheered by military crowds some weeks ago. Then they showed him more recently shaking hands with big military formations. These military personnel were not smiling and very subdued. NBC was pointing this out. They went on to show protesters of all sorts, including the military families. I almost spilled my tea. Posted by: Pat on April 13, 2004 01:59 PMThe 911 Commission hearings to interview FBI and CIA began, gavel down, at 9:01 am EDT in Washington, DC. Posted by: Pat on April 13, 2004 02:01 PMThanks Corleonis... Today's WashPo has double-header from Kerry - second, criticism of Bush Namaste Posted by: Jo on April 13, 2004 02:07 PMHmmmmm, the worm is turning. I guess these F$%&* want to survive and perhaps have a country post neocons. Posted by: Pat on April 13, 2004 02:17 PMOMG, Ben-Veniste is grilling Freeh on Agent John O'Neil. He is setting him up. I love Ben-Veniste. Posted by: Pat on April 13, 2004 03:09 PMThere is a second report (currently on democrats.com) that WMDs are being planted in Iraq. (The earlier report was from Iran and thus suspicious.) This would tie-in with the Pentagon's contract with a SC company for specialo gloves (reported just a few days ago). Any astrological insight into this? It would, of course, increase Smirky's ratings, but--once/if discovered, particularly if from Libya's arsenal--this could also be very damaging. Posted by: shylurker on April 13, 2004 04:27 PMShylurker, thanks for the alert on WMD planting... I sent email to Maureen Dowd at NYT... I didn't see first report, so this is good to have... I too am interested in what we can glean astrologically about this... Posted by: Jo on April 13, 2004 07:49 PMThanks, Pat. You're a real mensch! Posted by: shylurker on April 13, 2004 07:53 PMShylurker, the report that they may be planting WMD's has been out for several weeks. The DEBKAfile first reported it http://www.debka.com/ The DEBKAfile is a good site to check often, they are known to have the most direct information from Israel. It was reported so long ago that it isn't still up on their site, but you might do a search for it. The Bourque news is also a good source for newspapers from around the world http://www.bourque.org/ Both of these had information in February regarding the US planting WMD's Posted by: Sally on April 13, 2004 08:09 PMTHanks so much, Sally. I believe the one currently on democrats.com is a new, second report. How's Neptune doing? 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