Nancy, the time and effort put into this article shows. Nicely done. Your article gives us gate posts and time frames to view the madness that is the nut, George.

Thanks.

Another absolutely wonderful article, Nancy. In my opinion, there's nothing worse for the American people (and especially the American Voter) than to get one's hopes raised only to have them dashed on the cold, hard rock of Reality. My suspicion is that history would show that it's the current Occupant in the White House that suffers when that happens. And with the shifts in the Iraqi chart and the military activity in the US chart around the Election in 2004 and the Inauguration soon thereafter, I wonder if Bush is out and someone with some sanity will be in. :-)

Thanks, Nancy.

Jonathan

That was my thought, Jonathan. So much seems to end around the election:
the Pluto transit opposite US Mars ends in November 2004; Neptune quincunx the US Sun ends in mid-November; Uranus opposite the Iraqi Asc ends in January 2005; progresed US MC quincunx progressed US Mars peaks in November 2004; US progressed Sun moves into Pisces in November 2004.

Taken together, these really suggest the end of martial period (Mars) and a time when the public is duped (Neptune), and the beginning of whatever will be the next phase for Iraq after January (post Uranus). It seems to me an indication of a different gang in the WH.

And I feel despair.

Joanna - Generic despair or as an interpreation to what I wrote? I am still quite optimistic about him being bounced out, but nothing is sure til it happens. And in the meantime, wee can see him escalating already. He knows no other response to anything.

If I could tag along w the conversation between JoannaO and Nancy, I feel despair wondering how many more people have to die the hideous deaths brought by war until he is finally gone from the world's stage. Sigh.

Oh, and wonderful article, Nancy, just wonderful! Thank you again and again!

Nancy,

Have you written about what's coming up post-Uranus after 2005? And have you written about how these post-2005 transits might mesh with Dean or Clark or Kerry? If so, link me to the archived article!

Jonathan

I suppose I should expand the aggression we will see to include his policies as well. And perhaps his campaigning, but it just seems more to have to do with this horrid war he never should have begun. The great tragedy is that it has clearly energized the terrorist world to feel righteously angry and inspired to act. The current escalation is bad enough. I think it will then dim somewhat til January. At that point it depends what Pluto opposite US Mars will bring, though other transits contribute as well. I would think it would be some kind of direct conflict (opposition) with the terrorists. I also think there will be increasing protest over here because Mars rules the US 4th house, and so the ruler of the 4th is getting very agitated, the 4th being we the people, the emotional roots of the nation. The most noteworthy times are Janaury, April and May, when Pluto is closest to Mars.

And the strange thing is the prog US Venus square the US Sun. The Sun is Bush so it would seem to bring him some adoring energy from his fans, and it probably will from time to time through mid to late September. But he himself has that Saturn station exactly semisquare his Venus. It just sits there from 2/8 to 3/23. so something is upsetting him or not going well. Then he has a good bit of Saturn in the summer, so the Sun Venus in the US chart is weakened in how it impacts him.

Jonathan - I did write an article called Life after Bush, a while back (April 13). It should be on my index. http://starlightnews.com

But I haven't written too fully about it. And I am still struggling with the charts of the candidates. It may be that the murk I see in mid winter relates to what is going on with Bush, Iraq, etc. If the war is going well, even briefly, it impacts the campaigns. I continue to think Howard Dean has too much Saturn energy around the Convention to be the nominee. I would expect the nominee to be on a high during the convention, surrounded by adoring fans. He has Uranus opposing natal Saturn and Saturn squaring natal Venus. I have a hard time seeing it make sense. Kerry seems to have best planets for the Convention, but he has a long way to go to get there. I am hoping to pull something together for an article on all this, but it is murky.

Kerry's just not going to make it, from this point. Unless something bad happens to Dean, Clark and Gep.

Could it be, Nancy, that the Saturn influence for Dean may be a good thing? You know some people need Saturn to ground them, give them gravitas. Dean is a loose canon when he speaks; energizing, but angry and too off the cuff. Maybe the saturn influence will make him seem more stately and presidential and sober just when he needs it. Can you see how much I'm fishing for shreads of hope here?

Great research, Nancy, and all the time spent shows up so impressively in your work! But, Larry is thinking along the same lines as I am. Energies can be read and applied in so many different ways. I don't necessarily see all of Bush's transits as being tied into Iraq, as the economy is also undergoing a war. All the info. regarding it's dire straits seems to me to be the Neptunian factor suggested in your article? Perhaps tied into the oil non-situation in Iraq?

Beautiful work, Nancy! I am wondering how things look for Syria. Bush & Co seem to be setting them up for the next war. Bush never met a war he didn't have to be in that he didn't like. If I remember correctly during the 2002 elections you mentioned that possibly things might look up for the Democrats because Trent Lott's chart looked like he would be so unhappy after the election. And was he ever unhappy when he was demoted! So although the Democrats didn't win, Lott lost. (And it made this Democrat happy.) What I'm thinking is that things aren't going well in Afghanistan, but the public only hears about Iraq. Now that it's clear things aren't going well in Iraq, will we start hearing about Syria or some other new "terrorist" enemy?

Agreed, Peg. anything is possible. It would make more sense for me not to put definite circumstances on my predictions and stick to the "energies". It is certainly safer. Bush will be aggressive and reckless. It could be Iraq, the economy, or other policies. If the war is going well, briefly, in February or April, it could put a crimp into Dean's appeal or his campaign strategy. The candidates could also be upset by Bush's increased aggression in the world. And who knows what will be happening around the Convention. Dean could be the winner but upset by the current circumstances. Anything is possible. By saying he isn't likely to win the nomination due to the two concurrent Saturn aspects, I am taking the shortest distance between two points, so to speak. But I have no idea what will be going on at the time that could explain the aspects in a different way. Truly, anything is possible.

I think the economy may look good from time to time, but it will illusory. Thus the Sun/Venus aspect that reflects well on Bush, but the Neptune quincunx to Sun bringing in the delusion. The Neptune quincunx will stimulate Bush's natal Sun Neptune square, so it will actually be worse on him personally. The US Sun has a very wide Neptune sun sextile. Perhaps we will be less adversely impacted than he will be.

With the Saturn crossing and passing the US Sun in June, it may be that the burden of Iraq does pass to the Iraqis and possibly the UN if they are willing. But then Bush has numerous Saturn transits thereafter. It will be like the death by a thousand cuts. Square Bush's Moon, Chiron, Jupiter, conjunct Inaugural Node, square Bush MC, conjunct Bush's Saturn, and conjunct Inaugural IC.

Meanwhile the US' foreign relationships will be shredded for a time with Saturn next fall and winter on the US Mercury, ruler of 7 (partners) and coruler of the 9th (foreign relations). Mercury in the 8th would also have to do with investments contracting somewhat.

Very interesting Tom Dispatch today. He talks in the begining about Bush, the gambler. As I have pointed out numerous times, the South Node in Sag in the 5th is the consummate gamblers' aspect. This is the aspect that will turn (more) compulsive and implode with Pluto on it in 2004. Then there is a terrific article from an Orville Schell (who I never heard of) that is really on the mark about everything.

http://www.nationinstitute.org/tomdispatch/index.mhtml?emx=x&pid=1081

As I've written for over a year, in the Bush administration we are facing the great gamblers of our history. After 9/11, they leapt to the craps table, blew on the dice, and began to fling them down the table. And for a while, everything came up sevens and elevens. It's such an addictive feeling, I'm sure. My father's motto always was, "A good gambler cuts his losses." But then again, that's the sort of mentality that comes out of the world of the petite bourgeoisie. The big gamblers, the ones sitting at the table with all the money, have something else in mind -- and a different set of stakes as well.

And the sad truth is, the Middle Eastern dreams of our neocon and radical nationalist top officials (let no one call them "conservatives") are now coming true. They wanted to destabilize the region in a big way and so, of course, remake it to their benefit. They just didn't realize that in the room were other gamblers with similar dreams but quite different ends in mind. Now they know what we knew back when, and warned them about. They have, in effect, acted like a recruitment station for Islamist fanaticism. And they'll undoubtedly live to rue the day.

snip

The Bush administration has brought the notion of the "marketization" of American life to heights unequalled in history. With former (and probably future) business executives and lobbyists in so many key positions, whole cabinet-level departments, the Department of Defense included, are now run more like large corporations than agencies of government. Unsurprisingly, a new, business-style mind-set has gripped Washington, for corporate leaders like to pride themselves on being resolute, on knowing how to move rapidly, boldly, and with a certain Promethean energy as they go about the process of merging and acquiring. In the sclerotic corridors of the federal bureaucracy it may, indeed, take a bold and driven leader to change the old terms of the game and get things done in inventive and previously unimagined ways.

The extraordinary thing about our present impasse in Iraq is that these corporate evangelists, who played such a critical role in plunging us into war, did such a poor job of due diligence on this Middle East "merger" before committing us to it. And like their take-the-money-and-run entrepreneurial corporate kin, now under indictment or in ignominious retirement, they were so ginned up over their inevitable success that they never bothered to develop a viable exit strategy. Now, as a result of short-sightedness (not to say malfeasance) in their latest "offshore enterprise" in Iraq, their own administration risks suffering a version of collapse that may one day look not so different from that of Enron, WorldCom, or Tyco.

So what is the remedy for us, if not them? Is there any exit strategy that would actually bring "peace with honor" to our country and extricate us from a sandy quagmire, never mind bring about the well-being of the long-suffering Iraqi people?

I'm afraid to say that I do not see any easy, constructive, or even face-saving ways out. The bitter fact of our willful entrance into Iraq, and of the stubborn, unilateral and prideful way that we have "stayed the course" since, has brought us to a point in this sorry drama where options once available are being foreclosed with an alarming rapidity. Even if the US were to reverse its policies by 180 degrees and, having long eschewed any multilateralization of the invasion or occupation, suddenly sought to share responsibility with NATO and the United Nations, it is doubtful sufficient support from other nations could be mustered.

Barbara - I don't know. It is possible he will bomb Syria and say he is bombing terrorist camps there that are feeding into Iraq. It is possible we will have some big battles in Afghanistan as well. It is a disaster there. Whatever happens, our open enemies (Mars in 7) will be intensified (opposite Pluto) and there will be a huge power struggle. I amnot sure how it plays out. would assuem at least aprt of this will be in Iraq. We can also assume Bush will play it like a crap shoot with Pluto on his gamblers aspect (south Node in 5 in Sag), especially in December, and June through November when the aspect is closest. We can also assume he will not be thinking clearly de to Neptune quincunx hs Sun. He will be prone to grandiose, magical thinking, or "ideological" rather than rational thinking as it is being called lately. Saturn in June will bring a painful reckoning when reality hits. Then it hits again for the election when it sits on his Saturn and square his MC, etc. That is how I see it.

Gosh, Nancy, you sure are impressive! My apologies for making you do double- duty :) Since the way I look at things is from a karmic perspective, the war in Iraq, the soldiers dying, even the Iraqi's suffering can be seen to be karmic retribution? The similarities with the Hitler era, the holocaust and the religious undertones seem more than a coincidence. Perhaps that's why my curiosity has turned toward the economy, and it's seeming demise. Many people are predicting that we are headed toward the greatest Depression ever known, and as I think it has been CONTRIVED, I am trying to attribute Bush's transits in this manner. Who the heck knows? But thank you so much for your expertise and help in this regard!!

Excellent work Nancy. I am really so impressed by all the work put into this article, it is just fabulous. I read and re-read it several times, to be sure I didn't miss anything. Thank you so very much for telling us all this, now we can be prepared for what is to come, down the road.

Thanks, Nancy. "Corporate evangelists," what a wonderfully descriptive phrase. And "take the money and run" is what they do. No building a business, caring responsibly for employees, winning the trust of customers--just gut it, clean out the profits for the business buddies, and move on to wreck something else. Another rant, sorry. Jeb is my governor and he is corporate-raiding Florida as his brother is looting the US treasury.

This is off topic but the last time I checked no one on this board had an accurate time of birth for Clark. I managed to find it online and thought I'd post it.

I located it at www.astrodatabank.com : 5:43 am CWT.

Apparently someone named Betsy Stang simply asked him about it at a fundraiser and he told her.

Barbara, I like to call the "take the money and run" folks "cheap labor conservatives". Also, if you study the history of the Bush family, you will see a pattern of corporate raiding.....everything form savings and loans to State and Federal treasuries. It's apparently what they do. Just as the Kennedys were in love with politics and speaking for the people, the Bushes seem to be like junk bond raiders. It's their primary skill.

nancy thanks so much for your great article and subsequent responding posts. there's so many of us that appreciate the time you put into it.

i feel despair too in regards to what is currently happening. the footage of the us soldiers terrorizing iraqi families as they raid houses is so upsetting to me. i can only imagine if i was muslim what kind of action i would have to take. and yet the plan to de-stabilize the region accepts the fight of the resistance doesn't it? to crush it with more bombs as necessary..and the war propoganda machine is still working full force here. it doesn't work on us because we are not plugged in to news from those sources, but from certain republicans that i know i can hear what they are being fed..it started with wmd of course, then to liberation, then to saddam hold outs, and now it's back to 9/11, that they're doing all of this because of 9/11...
we can only hope that the circle of lies that has a certain populace of our nation deceived gets dizzying so that they wake up..or they could get deeper into this dangerous brainwashing void and become violent robots to any resistance right here, which of course is another republican plan as witnessed by the intimidating floridian repubs marching into the recount locations.

it is good to see that it seems as if there is a different pattern coming in. but we've also had interpretation saying it's illusory, and ill-fated as well. (the 2005 inaug chart) perhaps even dr dean can't thwart the karma of shock and awe.

america is a sick society. from it's gangster leaders to it's sexual dysfuntion (non-stop penis enlargement marketing to our somewhat sane late night news being brought to us by viagara) to it's corporate pollution, obesity, gluttony and de-sensitizing of violence unless it is happening directly to one as an individual...america needs a good vomit, but i think that between the torn social climate, as well as political one, all it does and will continue to do, is fuck itself. and with the eu de-stabilizing our dollar, i really think america is over. it has the potential to be nothing more than a poor rogue nation with dangerous weapons, ala india and pakistan. nancy, are there any far-reaching astrological indications that i am right on this?

Roxanne - You raise important questions. I think in 2005 with US prog Venus square Saturn and transiting Saturn conjunct Mercury, the economy could be abysmal. And the movement of the US prog Sun into Pisces at the end of 2004 for thirty years suggests a less aggressive and more confused posture. Also prog Mars moves retrograde in around 2005, so we may see a turning inward regarding all this militarism.

So yes, we may no longer be the world's only superpower. That has already begun. We don't hear anymore the constant drumbeat about our invincibility. There is a worldwide realignment that may bring about more balance. The euro is growing, the Russians are buddies with the Germans and the French. (Who but Dimwit could have pulled that one off?)

Being the lone superpower is very corrupting as we have seen. It may be that the results of Dubya's rampage will leave the country in a worse place initially, but it will wake us up somewhat from our gluttonous stupor. The country is in the midst of a big Saturn transit that goes from June 2003 through June 2005. This is a real opportunity for us to become more responsible and less grasping. But it may be that the great and invincible America that we have grown up with is going through a big transformation that will shrink it but make it ultimately better. If this is karma at work, which is likely, and karma is always working to bring things into balance when they are off center, then it will ultimately be for the good. It just may take a while to get enough perspective to see it.

DANG! I just lost a great big ole comment- don't ya hate it when that happens?! Anyway, I was saying pretty much what Nancy just said, without the astrology info., and in a much less eloquent way, lol. From Edgar Cayce to The Tibetan these times have been foreseen, and as suggested, America will necessarily go through a destabilizing process meant to bring about levelization amongst all peoples. It's just 'cause we are so spoiled that it seems to be so hard. Other countries are having a great big laugh at our arrogance, and self-centered natures, and I truly can't blame them a tiny bit.

Daily enron Reality Check

The Time to Hesitate is Through?

11/21/2003

One of bush's new favorite lines is that the time for politics will come later, but for now, he's focused on running the country, not re-election. Of course, the fact that he usually delivers this whopper in front of a roomful of wealthy political donors at one of his high-dollar fund-raisers tends to undermine his credibility just a little bit. But the RNC (Really Negative Campaigners or, officially, the repub natl committee) has apparently decided that the time for politics is now. ... con't http://www.americanfamilyvoices.org/projects/DailyRealityCheck.asp?ID=21

Nancy:

I don't know how old you are, but my dear girl, you are talented!...You should be writing bigger pieces, maybe a trenchant tract that will skewer your "enemies" and set the record straight, or a novel that explores new ground in political skulduggery, or in corporate malfeasance, or...I exhaust myself just thinking what you could do with your writing ability...

In addition to Astroworld why don't you seek out other fora, apart from astrology?

Lahiri, a.k.a. Bob Jordan, thanks to Sally's literal interpretation of "shall not edit"...ha, ha, HA.

Nancy

Excellent portrait of a time...I have never gotten more than a few crumbs from this country's great prosperity and so the levelization seems like nothing new to me...I think these astropolitical interpretations are very difficult to make ....there is always the dark side in which many of these transits may be played out...where most of us will not see them...They handed the presidency to Bush once and so I say they intend to do it again...there is no republican contender - not even the Republican's will challenge this administration? - that is a first...so when everything goes their way whoever they think they are - then the pendulum will swing back - I am so overwhelmed by the continued silencing of a nation that I am learning the value of not RE-acting...other than reading thoughts given here and ferreting out the other side of the story that our media can not handle - they said they took a poll and 56% of Americans agreed the services for the returning dead soldiers should not be televised - we can't handle the truth!...hope found here for truth and a calling to human decency...where our expression is not regulated by our political party affiliation.
Namaste

Madeline - I really do feel it has to do with facing, absorbing, understanding the truth. People were in shock after the Coup. Those who even had a hint about what was happening were in denial that it was really happening here. It was too much to grasp. Since then, Dub has gone from one radical mind-numbing policy to another. I think people do have a hard time getting their minds around it. A lot of the Dems who supported the war couldn't believe that the president was lying and promising one thing while planning another. It was just so outrageous. I think it has taken them til now to even begin to realize what they are up against.

This manipulation of the thought process of the population through the media and through the political maneuverings and deceit of Rove is perhaps the greatest danger. The whole process of getting one's information through sound bites and TV, rather than reading it, takes away a lot of a person's discriminating and thought capacity. Hearing Dub tell you a thousand times on TV how dangerous Saddam is and how he is allied with the terrorists to destroy us is very persuasive. It almost bypasses the thought process and gets into you viscerally.

The only inoculation I can think of is for people to be more and more aware of the process of how they are being manipulated, then they will start thinking and discriminating again. This worked during the terrorist alerts early on. Every time the governement raised the alert level, people just figured they were trying to distract us from something more sinister. It became very ho hum.

A book was published in the 70s by Anne Wilson Schaef, a native american psychotherapist, entitled "When Society Becomes An Addict" http://www.livinginprocess.com/schaef/

Ingenious Mark Morford fills in further info. "Giant Floating Purple Pills: Are those creepy prescription-drug commercials on TV trying to kill you?" http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2003/11/21/notes112103.DTL&nl=fix

One may get an idea of what has gone awry with American collective conscienceness. The whole nation is being driven crazy to put it in a nutshell by those who are also druggie & mega-egoic crazies {ie bush, limbaugh, gingrich, rumsfeld, etc). I'm more than cautious about believing anything in mainstream press as it's all controlled propaganda & it's just about all bogus... esp the polls. This is, to me, much of what Neptune is telling us about in all the charts. And, not everybody is a druggie & there're plenty of folks who care.

I hope that one of the fantastic astrologers on this site will look into this. The bill about medicare. The voting started at 3:01 am Nov 22(today) and ended at 5:48 am. These are 2 very interesting charts.
I am wondering if astrology shows that they change elections. I think they will as the seniors are mad as hell.
The Senate is still debating it. Will probably vote tonight.
And if there is a chart for AARP, that would be interesting also.

snip......

I would like to briefly review thoughts expressed in prior columns. Uranus and Neptune are in a strong configuration known as "mutual reception" from 2003-2010. Uranus rules the masses and brilliant new ideas that can benefit the world. Neptune is the urge for peace and beauty. These two forces suggest that greater and greater numbers of people come together for the purpose of creating a more beautiful peaceful world. I refer to these as the New Peace Generation or Movement. They want an end to war, an end to violence, and a greater consciousness leading to the care and protection of the planet and her inhabitants. It is, in a symbolic sense, the rebirth of the values that led the baby boomer generation to their consciousness movements of the late 1960’s and early 1970’s. It may, in fact, be the time of that generation’s real destiny coming to light, for those baby boomers now hold the power of the planet, both economically and politically. Their "peace movement" failed in the 1960’s because of the infiltration of various parties who had a more sinister purpose, which was to create chaos and overthrow of various governments. And hence the peace movement turned towards anti-government, became violent, and lost its focus. If we are to believe these radio reports of the people behind the anti-war protests in London this past week, it appears the new peace movement is in danger of falling into the same trap as before.

At the same time Uranus and Neptune are in mutual reception, Saturn and Pluto are moving from an opposition to a waning square (2002-2010). This phase of Saturn and Pluto can be particularly dangerous, both in terms of economic set backs (rising inflation, rising interest rates, rising budget deficits, rising debt, and struggling economies and stock markets) and in terms of rising acts of violence by "hate groups." By the end of the decade, Uranus joins Saturn and Pluto in a T-square. To me, this indicates the time when terrorists might actually gain control of weapons of mass destruction, unless the urge for peace and the end of violence is successful at deterring this possibility first. So, if the peace movement (Uranus-Neptune) is to be successful, it has to focus on peace and the elimination of these very weapons that terrorists could gain control of by that time. It is more important for governments who are in the fight against terrorism, to join forces with those who really want world peace. I think it is important for governments to open up very visible and public dialogue with those groups that truly want world peace, and not close them out to appear as simply "anti-war," or worse—"anti-government." Both groups are truly against terrorism, but one side that could be an ally in this drive is being forced by the other to appear in favor of terrorism. It would be a mistake for governments to allow a "missed opportunity" for both sides to come together in a common purpose. But for this to happen, you need an open leadership that welcomes these minds and these ideas, in open and public dialogue, and not one that turns these brilliant minds and visionaries against it by a "closed door" policy, which is symbolic of Saturn in Cancer (2003-2005).

More.....

Woops....here is the link for the above post.

http://www.stariq.com/MarketWeek.HTM

I agree with everyone else that this is truly great work Nancy.

Now I must apologize for straying off thread, but as this is November 22, I would like to consider the JFK assasination and perhaps suggest some brave astrologer take up this challenge. As you all know there have been many recent allegations that LBJ was really involved in the assasination--the History Channel recently airing a program with this thesis. I, for one, do not buy it. And yet I do not think there is really any credibility left to the "magic-bullet/case-closed/Oswald did it" view. I listened to a radio program in which a distinguished philosopher of science (and I know these types of philosophers are not likely to indulge in far-out unsubstantiated conspiracy theories) laid out his arguments that it was a CIA conspiracy. I think he was right about that part but I just am not at all convinced by his inferences leading to LBJ. If it was the CIA reacting in retaliation for JFK blowing the Bay of Pigs operation and seemingly set on changing the direction of American foreign policy, then it seems to me, one has to at least consider who planned Bay of Pigs and who was most distressed by Kennedy's change in course. And that, my friends, leads to Nixon, who really was the authority behind the planning while he was VP, and guess who, but G.H.W. Bush who supposedly was the principle CIA planner of Bay of Pigs. I've read that the transport ships that landed at Bay of Pigs were named the "Barbara," "Houston," and "Zapata" (which happened to be the name of Bush's oil Co.).

Now yesterday I found Bush Sr.'s chart and took a brief look and noticed some very interesting things.

First of all, his Sun is at 21Gem22, thus pretty much exactly conjunct US Mars, which, as you all know, is getting that Pluto transit now. His Pluto is almost conjunct the US Sun. His Mars is on the US Moon. His Chiron is on the US Chiron. Jupiter on the US Asc in Sibley chart.

Now Bush Sr's Saturn squares JFK's Saturn. Chiron on JFK's Desc, square to MC and widely Saturn. His Neptune squares closely JFK's 8th house Mars/Merc/Jupiter conjunction (most closely Mars, which was on that day being squared closely by Saturn--which I'm guessing is as close to an astrological signature of assasination as one can get). And, get this, Bush's Pluto sits just about exactly on JFK's South Node.

Now on Nov 22, 1963 Uranus was exactly conjunct Bush's Asc with Pluto close by in the 1st house. Mars, closely conjunct to Venus, was exactly opposite Bush's Sun and square his 7th house Uranus, and the North Node on that day exactly conjunct Bush's Pluto and Chiron exactly conjunct Bush's Desc. Saturn and the Moon were opposite Bush's Neptune and the Sun opposite his Mercury.

Now on Nov 22, 1963 at 12:31pm in Dallas, Chiron was just about exactly opposite a conjunction of Pluto and Uranus with the vertex smack between these two. Mercury formed a T-square with this opposition. Saturn was rising and square to Neptune.

No, I don't think we will likely ever know for sure what really happened, especially with that last mentioned aspect on that day. But with all these recent allegation pointing at LBJ, especially since Dubya's current press secretary's father is one of the authors of a book making just this allegation, I think it bears some scrutiny. I think it is very possible, while a certainty if there was a cover-up, that LBJ was involved in that. But I could understand how he could have thought that a CIA conspiracy to assasinate the President was a truth to dark for the American people to handle and thus he went along with a cover-up, and of course, once this had started there would have been no turning back. He could have been involved in the cover-up and yet not in the loop on the CIA plan. Thus all the current fingerpointing at LBJ might just be another version of a cover-up, and a particularly devious one at that.

Now that we know so much about this repug crowd--Nixon, Reagan, the Bushes and all the other neocons, I would not at all be shocked and surprised if they pulled off this evil deed. Add them all up: 1) the possible, I would say likely, complicity in allowing 911 to happen (I've read that while Dubya was reading to children in Florida, daddy Bush was actually in the WH with Cheney); 2) the undeniably stolen election of 2000; 3) iran-contra; 4) the october surpise (the deal with the Iranians that doomed Carter and led to Reagan's election; 5) Watergate (by the way, somewhere I read that H.R.Hadleman had said that in Nixon's inner circle "Bay of Pigs" was code-word for the JFK assasination.

Sorry for such a long off topic post, but considering the day, I thought it perhaps relevant. Now I certainly do not think that any astrological connections are going to carry any weight in the larger public (in fact, it would likely just convince most that this was just a really nutty conspiracy theory). Nonetheless, I am curious what astrologers would say regarding the connections with Bush Sr.'s chart and the assasination of JFK.

Oh, also one final thought. I am not certain it's true and maybe it doesn't add up to much, but alledgedly when asked where they were on Nov. 22, 1963, both Nixon and daddy Bush claimed they couldn't remember! Now I ask you, is there anyone alive who was old enough on that day to be capable of remembering, who doesn't remember precisely where they were on that tragic day? I remember it as if it was yesterday and I was only six years old.

Awesome Timothy, and quite plausable. Thanks.

Just noticed one more thing. I don't know much about Arabic parts, but the Arabic part of Assasination sits exactly on JFK's East Point in 1st house. And the part of Retribution sits on Bush Sr.'s Part of Fortune, and the part of Delusion on his Pluto. Hmmm.

Arrgh! Sorry, one more thing. On that radio program the other night, the author of the LBJ killed Kennedy thesis stated that LBJ had been quoted in a private conversation as having said, referring to the assasination, "it was the CIA and the oil boys"! Why the author didn't consider that maybe LBJ here spoke the truth is beyond me.

Our country is and has been in so much trouble.

Timothy, by the referrence to Watergate/ Nixon, are you abbreviating how Nixon resigned rather than let the CIA info. be leaked from the Dem's breakin?

http://salon.com/news/feature/2003/11/22/vietnam/print.html

Kennedy, Vietnam and Iraq

The evidence is clear: JFK decided to withdraw from Vietnam a month before he was assassinated. Setting the record straight is crucial as Baghdad continues to explode.

This week's crescendo of Kennedy commemoration has ranged from banal to lurid. The New York Times' Alessandra Stanley has pointed out how the event signaled the rise of modern television as our dominant medium for news. Forty years later, every vice of TV is on display: an obsession with glamour, sex, hearsay, computer simulation and sentimental appeals to authority; along with reckless disregard for evidence, complicated ideas, policies and organizations. Plainly, given the nature of the medium, access to even a small part of the underlying history of our defining trauma will be restricted to those who read.

More....

http://www.retropoll.org/polling_fraud_z-mag.htm

Retro Poll: 40% of Americans want Bush impeached

Press Release: From:--Retro Poll ---

At least one in three Americans believe that George W. Bush should face impeachment for misleading the public and Congress about Saddam's weapons of mass destruction to create support for war on Iraq.

This is a new finding from a national survey conducted by the Retro Poll organization between October 29 and November 12. The actual proportion supporting impeachment was 40% but with a margin of error of plus or minus 8%, 1 in 3 remains a conservative population estimate. "We are seeing a rising tide of public anger that no one is paying attention to", said Dr. Marc Sapir, Retro Poll's Director.

Currently 47% of those polled know that Saddam's Iraq had no connection to the 9/11 attacks, up from 36% in a Retro Poll last April. Of that 47% who are now clear on this fact, 52% favored impeachment. Even more dramatic was the strength of support for impeachment among those who know that the Al Qaeda-Saddam connection was also a media-government fabrication, based on little evidence. Of the still small 32% who know that Saddam Hussein and Al Qaeda were never partners a whopping 73% favor impeachment and 78% think the U.S. should not have invaded Iraq. (54% of the total sample said the U.S. should not have invaded Iraq which is consistent with recent findings of major polling organizations).

More.....

I wanted to post this amazing article by George Soros which is germaine to the previous discussion, called The Bubble of American Supremancy:

http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2003/12/soros.htm

The quest for American supremacy qualifies as a bubble. The dominant position the United States occupies in the world is the element of reality that is being distorted. The proposition that the United States will be better off if it uses its position to impose its values and interests everywhere is the misconception. It is exactly by not abusing its power that America attained its current position.

Where are we in this boom-bust process? The deteriorating situation in Iraq is either the moment of truth or a test that, if it is successfully overcome, will only reinforce the trend.

Whatever the justification for removing Saddam Hussein, there can be no doubt that we invaded Iraq on false pretenses. Wittingly or unwittingly, President Bush deceived the American public and Congress and rode roughshod over the opinions of our allies. The gap between the Administration's expectations and the actual state of affairs could not be wider. It is difficult to think of a recent military operation that has gone so wrong. Our soldiers have been forced to do police duty in combat gear, and they continue to be killed. We have put at risk not only our soldiers' lives but the combat effectiveness of our armed forces. Their morale is impaired, and we are no longer in a position to properly project our power. Yet there are more places than ever before where we might have legitimate need to project that power. North Korea is openly building nuclear weapons, and Iran is clandestinely doing so. The Taliban is regrouping in Afghanistan. The costs of occupation and the prospect of permanent war are weighing heavily on our economy, and we are failing to address many festering problems—domestic and global. If we ever needed proof that the dream of American supremacy is misconceived, the occupation of Iraq has provided it. If we fail to heed the evidence, we will have to pay a heavier price in the future.

Here we go again:

November 22, 2003

Barking up the wrong Bush
by GWYNNE DYER

As it happened, the two principal sponsors of the invasion of Iraq, US President George W Bush and British Prime Minister Tony Blair, were together when news came in that 27 more people had been killed in the third and fourth suicide bomb attacks in Istanbul in one week. They had to say something, and so they both tried to twist the atrocities into a justification of their decision to invade Iraq. This would be almost funny if it wasn’t so horrible, because the two incidents probably occurred BECAUSE Bush and Blair invaded Iraq.

“What this latest terrorist outrage shows us is that there is a war—and its main battleground is in Iraq,” said Mr Blair. Mr Bush picked up the theme, declaring that “Our mission in Iraq is noble and it is necessary, and no act of thugs or killers will change our resolve”—as if the men who organised the bomb attacks in Istanbul hadn’t wanted the US and Britain to invade Iraq, or did want them to leave now. And the media lapped it all up, as if Bush and Blair were talking sense and the suicide bombers were “mindless killers”.

In the face of the torrent of deceitful propaganda, it has to be said again and again. The invasion of Iraq had nothing to do with the “war on terrorism”. The only terrorism in Iraq is that which was caused by the invasion. The Islamist terrorists of al-Qaeda were delighted by the Anglo-American invasion of Iraq. And the reason why there have been so many successful terrorist attacks in Turkey, Morocco, Indonesia, Saudi Arabia, the Philippines and elsewhere in recent months is probably because of the diversion of intelligence effort to the war in Iraq.

One at a time. First of all, there was no more linkage between Saddam Hussein’s repressive but rigorously secular regime in Iraq and the Islamist terrorists of al-Qaeda than there was between the Mafia and the Khmer Rouge. There is absolutely no evidence for it, and the entire American and British intelligence establishments spent the time before the invasion of Iraq desperately signalling to their political masters (and later, off the record, to any media that would listen) that there was no such link.

They were not listened to because Mr Bush’s people were determined to have their war, and Mr Blair—well, that’s still puzzling. But it is clear, if you watch how their lips move, that both men are conscious of having practised a deception on the public. They regularly mention al-Qaeda and Iraq in the same breath in order to foster the illusion that there was a link, but they never actually say it in exactly so many words.

Like most politicians, they know that you can fuzz, distort or evade the issue to your heart’s content, but you must never tell an outright lie.

The “terrorism” in Iraq these days bears little resemblance to the almost metaphysical acts of existential hatred that struck New York and Washington two years ago and the global strategy that lay behind them.

Iraq is just the mundane, functional terrorism of anti-colonial resistance from Algeria to Vietnam, carried out for the most part by the same sort of people— ex-army officers, political ideologues, young men with big chips on their shoulders—who would be doing the same thing in the United States if foreign troops suddenly took over the country. (You doubt me? Go get Red Dawn out of the video store.)

The Iraqis who run this resistance movement doubtless use foreign Islamist fanatics to drive the truck-bombs whenever possible—“if the kid wants to die, let’s give him the chance”—but there is no known link between the war in Iraq and al-Qaeda’s astonishingly ambitious project to seize control of the Arab and even the broader Muslim world. Which brings us, finally, to the question of how the invasion of Iraq has undermined the real “war on terrorism”.

Islamist terrorists really exist, although almost none of them are Iraqis. They are not as numerous or rich or well-organised as the propagandists would have us believe, and the damage they can do doesn’t begin to compare with what a real war does, but they are a serious danger that warrants serious attention. Trouble is, they haven’t been getting it.

What matters most in a war against terrorism is intelligence. There is a strictly limited mass of talent in Western intelligence agencies which has the technical proficiency, the Arabic language skills, and the personal attributes needed for the intelligence gathering job—maybe as few as a couple of thousand key people. They should be concentrating their efforts on al-Qaeda. For the past year, most of them have been employed instead on some aspect of the project for “liberating” Iraq (whatever that may mean)—and you can’t be in two places at once.

The Islamist terrorists who plotted the attacks on two Jewish synagogues in Istanbul on 15 November and on the HSBC headquarters and the British consulate in the same city on the 20th, killing fifty people and injuring many hundreds, would have tried to do it whether Iraq was invaded or not. They didn’t need excuses to attack. The difference is that if the intelligence services had been paying attention to al-Qaeda instead of barking up the wrong tree (bush) in Iraq, they might actually have been stopped.

•Gwynne Dyer is a London-based independent journalist whose articles are published in 45 countries.

Thanks for that link, Pat! ;O) Have passed it on.

If you mean the poll Joanna.....it is the best thing I've seen in months.....maybe years!

Excellent comments one and all...the take on the JFK assassination was much more than I have heard before...
Just reread Nancy's article...hope the retro poll is true to form...hard to weed through all the bogus ones...
thank you Nancy for your response.

Namaste to all - M.

It's impossible to avoid all the re-runs of the Kennedy assassination at this time of the year, but no matter how often I see it, it remains one of America's most tragic chapters in history. It is gut-wrenching to see such a vital, popular man, in his prime, cut down by some punk in a matter of seconds. Even worse, was the ordeal that Jacqueline Kennedy must have gone through on that day. I really don't know how anyone could have kept their sanity after an experience like that. The speech he had prepared for that day was full of his goodwill towards all humankind. He and President Clinton had much in common, but their most common denominator, remains how much they were both loved by the black population of this country.

Then there's that heart-rending scene of the 3 year old John saluting his father at the funeral procession, and the realization that he also had an untimely death. It's kind of eerie that JohnJohn celebrated his 3rd birthday on the very day that that photograph was taken. Just another twist of fate I guess.

From Maya Del Mar:

From Maya Del Mar:

SUNDAY NOVEMBER 23

The New Moon Solar Eclipse at 2 Sagittarius occurs at 4:02 p.m. The Sagittarius moon cycle is about moving into the world, spreading the word, letting the world know the truth of the matter and what we are about. In Scorpio we went through the dark tunnel of initiation. Now in Sagittarius we emerge into the bright sunlight, spread our wings, and fly. We feel reborn, and the world is our oyster. We want to announce it to one and all.

Sun and Moon's last contacts were their squares with Uranus, and they come into this fresh world with a great deal of independence. This eclipse will renew our autonomy, both personally and in the world. Uranus can also indicate surprises, and in Washington DC it is exactly overhead.

Mars is still jazzed up from its opposition to adventurous Jupiter, and it's now building up to a very assertive square with Pluto on Wednesday. At the same time, during the 48 hours from last night through tomorrow night, both Mercury and Moon square Mars and conjoin Pluto to fill our hearts and minds with aggressive vibes.

This is a dangerous time. A solar eclipse hides consciousness and allows the unconscious to rule. Sagittarius is the sign of the gambler. And aggressive Mars/Pluto impulses are raining into our head and heart, represented by Mercury and Moon.

Moon not only transits over Mercury tomorrow night; but it also eclipses Mercury, thus blotting out logic, and giving Mercury extra significance. Mercury adds to the already-strong movement and travel urges of this time.

Sagittarius is expansive. It is a no-holds-barred sign, always ready to go. It is very helpful now to have a plan of action, as a channel for the energy which is being released.

The Sabian Symbol for 2 Sagittarius is

"WHITE-CAPPED WAVES DISPLAY THE POWER OF WIND OVER SEA. The mobilization of unconscious energies under the pressure of superpersonal motives. We have a picture which contrasts the powerful but beautiful storms of nature with the often gory and hysterical crises of a civilization which progresses through war. SUBTILIZATION THROUGH RHYTHMIC INTENSITY."

This New Moon rises through Beijing, and Mercury with Mars and Jupiter crosses over the Philippines.

Really great stuff on this thread--and am not referring to my posts on JFK assasination! The Soros essay is great. And Pat your post above my first post (I must have been writing mine and didn't see yours) is excellent.

But back to JFK and Peg's query: I wasn't specifically referring to what you asked about, but simply to Watergate in general and what it reveals to us about Nixon. But after a little search I found this regarding to what you brought up:
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/JFK/nixon.html

G to http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3b1d3c7e5a16.htm
for another picture which supposedly shows Woody Harrelson's father as one of the tramps.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/3tramps.htm
Very interesting rebuttal about the three tramps.

I think I mentioned on here the 24th through the 26th as a time of likely crisis for Bush, violence and powerful events. First Mercury will conjunct Pluto (19Sag) and then Mars will square it (19 Pisces). Both of these transtis will trigger Bush's prog MC/natal Uranus (19 Gemini). They will also set off the now exact transit of Pluto to Inaugural Moon (19 Sag). And given it is a Mars Pluto square, we can expect some vicious violence since important charts are activated.

Well, it seems to have begun. Here are two lurid stories that I think will have tremendous ramifications: the pummeling of two soldiers to death with concrete blocks after they were wounded and the slitting of two other soldiers throats after they had been attacked. To me this is Plutonian violence: the power of the masses, brutal, vicious, frenzied, vengeful, etc.

http://msnbc.com/news/870749.asp?0cv=CB10

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&e=1&u=/ap/20031123/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq

I've been a lurker here for awhile and enjoy the many good posts and writers. However, as much as I would like to believe that astrology can give us hints as to what may happen during certain times I am seeing a pattern here of "dangerous times" and " powerful events" that could happen and to tell you the truth, nothing much ever comes of it. In spite of warnings, watches, troubled periods and dark moons .... the boy King is still in charge as are all his sick puppet-masters. I am losing faith that anything will ever touch this dim-wit and have the feeling that as far as astrology goes ... he could fall out a window and he would go up! I don't think any of these astrological goings on have touched him at all .. or ever will, and that we are just getting stressed out here for nothing. The only people that seem to protest anything to do with this evil government here are not even in this country which is a pretty good indication of the way things will continue to go here in the States. I know we would all like to see a change in this administration, but I sadly think you could come back 6 months from now and very little here will have changed at all. Actions speak louder than words ...and the action,unfortunately, is on the side of the repubs.

Dear Not,

I'm with you....your analysis, while horrifically depressing, is quite an accurate account of both the state of George Bush's life and times as well as the myriad of unfulfilled astrological predictions that find their way here.

Prepare yourself for the onslaught of criticism you are about to endure. It is impolite to mention that astrology is so inexact that only ocassionally do these prognostications come true.

Granted, this is all for free and we should never complain about what is given generously by others but I still believe that every article written here should still hold more qualified language......words like might, could, maybe, perhaps. If that were the case, if the power of the words used here were softened by uncertainty, those of us who read would be more forgiving of the misses and more easily able to identify the hits. I don't think it is an unreasonable request....I have made it before and been beaten bloody for doing so. That's why the warning to you Not.....run for cover and come back another day to see what havoc you have wrought. It will make for good reading but wear your best fireproof suit. The folks here do tend to get testy quickly!

Good luck and well said.

Heh.

I don't think any poster here needs to wear a fireproof suit if their criticism doesn't berate or demean the astrologers who give their time and talent generously.

I think Not-Buying-It expressed disillusionment, and that's okay. Unfortunately, many of us believe Smirk will never get his day. He's too protected.

I quit coming here for quite awhile- recently returned- and missed it ALOT. I will agree with the notion that extreme predictions don't seem to come true to the extent that we "hope" for? I also want to say that the instances of others bashing anyone's opinions very rarely happens; if done, I think it is in the spirit of intellectual debate which normally helps to educate everyone on the elements of astrology. Perhaps instead of offering a generalized critism, one could make the effort to point out discrepancies, and personal analyses?

Perhaps it is the effect of the eclipse.

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~harwood/coment.html

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~harwood/3fc12221.jpg

Monday 24th November 2003.

We are now in the very sensitive days following an eclipse. The major news story throughout the weekend has been about Georgian President Eduard Shevardnadze resigning amid massive protests over disputed election results. He announced the move after opposition leader Mikhail Saakashvili gave him an ultimatum to go at talks mediated by Russian Foreign Minister Igor Ivanov. The news was greeted by jubilant scenes in the capital Tbilisi, where fireworks lit up the night sky

The week ahead looks to be very eventful as there are some important and 'hard hitting' planetary aspects

Mercury is square Mars at 04-14 GMT today. On Tuesday between 03-00 and 05-00 GMT Mercury, Pluto and the Moon are conjunct in the middle of Sagittarius. Venus is sextile Uranus on Wednesday and Mars is square Pluto at the start of Thursday.

From Clever Girl:

"but I still believe that every article written here should still hold more qualified language......words like might, could, maybe, perhaps. If that were the case, if the power of the words used here were softened by uncertainty, those of us who read would be more forgiving of the misses and more easily able to identify the hits"

Perhaps you should reread my articles before you make that comment. Just about every prediction is qualified with words like possibly, likelihood, indication, may, possiblity, etc. Check it out.

"No, I don't think we will likely ever know for sure what really happened,"

Timothy, that's very true. The evidence they admit to destroying and "misplacing," motorcade tapes, etc., by itself, would make it almost impossible for anyone to ever know the whole truth.

Thankfully, most reasonable people, seem to have discarded the "magic bullet" theory. It amazes me that anyone ever took Arlen Specter (the originator of that nonsensical theory) seriously again! How embarrassing it must be, for Pennsylvanians, having him as a Senator. His "logical" explanation was further afield than most of the conspiracy theories out there. Bullets don't stop in midair on there own. Not for any amount of time. I think just about anyone, in a regular conversation, would agree with that. Yet, you mention the Kennedy assassination, and all of a sudden you have acclaimed "scholars" asserting just that! Really frightening.

The House Committee, in the '70s, officially debunked the lone gunman theory. They openly said that there was at least one shot fired from the grassy knoll. A fact the media has conveniently chosen to forget. Witnesses, who claim to have heard a shot coming from that direction, are still routinely treated as publicity hounds and nut jobs. That may be true in some cases, maybe even most, but surely not in all of them.

I've heard the Bush theory before. Whether it's true or not, it's certainly very interesting, and deserves further investigation, both astrologically and in other ways. Perhaps, some courageous investigative reporter (who isn't too afraid of being laughed at) will look into it. Sadly, there don't appear to be too many "courageous" reporters out there.

Word

I really appreciate the analysis and hope that most of the contributors to this website provide. If I wasn't knowledgable about astrology, I think I would dispair because I would probably believe that Bush would be re-elected. Fortunatly, I have seen how the transit of Saturn has brought Bush's populaity down from its dizzying heights in April. And I have also seen very clearly the disaster that Iraq has become, which is what the astrologers predicted in March, while Bush struted across the Lincoln with his Misson Accomplished banner and the rest of the world thought everything was going just great.

I think some people feel better if they think the worst will happen and then are pleaseantly surprised if it doesn't. I for one, feel more secure if I can get a glimpse of the possibilities that our future holds through the use of astrology and I can prepare myself mentally and emotionally for it.

Hey all,

How wonderful it is that we're all part of a site where dissent isn't punished and those who disagree with astrology and it's effects are treated with respect and dignity. I believe there will ALWAYS be those who won't make the connection between what's happening in the Heavens above us and what we see in our everyday lives. And perhaps some of that is due to them not seeing The Big Picture or realizing how one action taken today will play itself in a huge way two, three, seven months from now. I have no idea as I'm not in their skin or have their Life experience.

As for me, I see how astrology works on a daily basis and realize more as each day goes by.

So, please continue to post your thoughts, astrologically or otherwise, and hopefully those who want to learn, be more aware of Energy and how it manifests, and be ever more willing to Open their Eyes to a Bigger Picture will come here and enjoy themselves ... as I constantly do. :-)

We have some of the best astrologers around! Let's enjoy and be grateful for their generosity.

Jonathan

To Not-buying-it,

I was reading an article on Maya Del Mar's Daykeeper Journal website about much going on behind the scenes at this time - as an interpretation of Uranus in Aquarius which includes her interpretation of Ceres at this time (I think this is the right reference) for all of us and for George Bush with a Sun in the 12th house there is much we do not see ---which is why I come here to read the astrological perspectives ---I sure am not as learned as others here astrologically but the astrology does pick up on current events more along my intuition which - especially with this administration- in which much is happening in the dark i am sure...indeed these may be very powerful events...so here I get the perspective that reaches beyond the failings of the media to continue to distract us with inconsequential fluff much of the time - now that is what I am not buying...The revolution will not be televised - I am sure when things seems more so like nothing is changing is when we need to pay closer attention.
M.

"Retro Poll: 40% of Americans want Bush impeached"

It's encouraging to know, that those of us who look forward to the day when GW is hauled off in chains, (hopefully to one of his finest Texas penitentiaries) aren't alone.

In a very unlike me way I find myself waiting for Tecumseh this autumn. But this would not necessarily relieve us from our problem (s), would it. Best I face the possibility.
I do shudder at the thought of another 4 years of these imbeciles. It's enough to bring tears to my eyes.
I want something other than George Bush's antics on my mind each day. He's a real buzz killer.

My first sense of being with this Bush in office was that our country is in a car with a drunk driver. I wasn't aware at that time that he had a drinking problem.

Our government is out of control. Waaaay out there.
At election 2000 as I watched what was occurring I noted a sense of helplessness in me. One that I was not familiar with and I didn't like it. I felt also an urgency like I have to do something ... what do I do? I was wringing my mind, I couldn't believe what was happening.
Where's the army? Where is president Clinton? Whose in charge here? That's when it hit me. We are.
Then where are we?

The Americans had been lulled to sleep. What a rude awakening. There is a lot of work to be done and it's like losing weight I suppose. It took awhile to put it on so it's going to take some time to get it off.
First of all, over half the people we have elected to represent us in congress should be fired and put out to pasture. They are no good.
For one thing they gave up our rights, they voted to give up what they are there to protect and what they had no right to give away.
Most of the republicans are there now to serve the president. They are so far zombie gone down the wrong road of thinking that they even openly admit it.

Others are there to serve their corporate contributors special interests at the cost of their constituents. They have been doing wrong for so long now that they think it's acceptable because every one else does it.
Little by little they have taken the country away from the people. The separation between government and the people is so vast that we really have no voice, no clout.

This new medical bill that has been written behind locked doors in secret-where their big deals were made.
This is just another event that shows a real defiance against the people. It's as if they know they have nothing to worry about because their jobs are secured I suppose by these new election machines. I have no doubt about this.

Education is vital to this whole country.
At first I thought -- that's going to take too long. But the more I see and hear I have come to realize that it is absolutely of the highest necessity because, excuse me, but there are a lot of stupid people in this country. Too many are seriously lacking in the areas of discernment.
Including obviously our elected representatives. But then, look who elected them.
Ethical behavior is also very low. I noted this when there were so many who actually considered what Bush did with election 200o as valid and OK and that it is also OK to kill others for the purpose of one's national interest.

I find it odd that those who tout their high morals often seriously lack in ethical behavior. Plus you can't run a people and write laws based on moralistic behavior.
Morals can change with the passing of a boundary and they are not universal as I understand.
But Ethics, I would think, are.

Bad leaders can poison the people's minds and encourage bad behavior. Just imagine what Bush is teaching.
Is it then OK to kill our neighbor because of something we suspect he may do in the future?
Then there's this idea that it's OK to lie if your a politician. It has become acceptable.
I don't think so. Not with me.

Two ideas that continue to dwell on my mind throughout this administrations terrorizing of America are just the basis of a common sense. If one needs to ask why a war? Then war is not valid. Period.
Why couldn't congress see this?
It has to be so obvious to every person on the planet as to why any country would wage war on another.

Another, of what I consider basic common sense would be as in-when after the attack on the twin towers of Babel (grin) , why we didn't begin fortifying our borders and setting up some checkpoint for all incoming ships at our ports. Nothing has been done in that area nor in the area of first responders. That is , if in fact this country is being attacked from the outside. I dunno maybe I am old fashion.
But instead this gigantic bureaucracy was set up to spy on the citizens of this country. "WE have found the enemy and it is us" Go figure.

So true and so well said dedacherry.

Here's a quote from Nancy:

... snip

As I've written for over a year, in the Bush administration we are facing the great gamblers of our history. After 9/11, they leapt to the craps table, blew on the dice, and began to fling them down the table. And for a while, everything came up sevens and elevens. It's such an addictive feeling, I'm sure. My father's motto always was, "A good gambler cuts his losses." But then again, that's the sort of mentality that comes out of the world of the petite bourgeoisie. The big gamblers, the ones sitting at the table with all the money, have something else in mind -- and a different set of stakes as well.

... snip

That's the sort of language and imagery worthy of Mark Twain and H.L. Mencken...Goddamn, I wish I'd written that!

Lahiri, a.k.a Bob, still keeping up the pretense, oops, the pseudonym, I mean

"THE Queen is furious with President George W. Bush after his state visit caused thousands of pounds of damage to her gardens at Buckingham Palace.

-snip-

"The Queen has every right to feel insulted at the way she has been treated by Bush," said a Palace insider.

"The repairs will cost tens of thousands of pounds but the damage to historic and rare plants will be immense. They are still taking an inventory.

"The lawns are used for royal garden parties and are beautifully kept. But 30,000 visitors did not do as much damage as the Americans did in three days."

-whole story-

http://www.sundaymirror.co.uk/news/content_objectid=13652625_method=full_siteid=106694_headline=-GROUND-FARCE-1-name_page.html

I have been appalled at the amount of coverage given to Michael Jackson's new scandal when there was hardly anything on the news of the British protesters.
I know that was on purpose.

What a bunch of lies from this administration promising 'the people' that they would get us away from big government.

BTW Lahiri, I recognized your name being the student of a disciple of Yogananda and Sri Yukteswar when I was 25, almost 25 years ago.

to not buying it and clever girl..

the main events "predicted" on this site were that with saturn leaving gemini the media would quit being mesmerized by the war-death machine, AND that the war would be what plagued bush's presidency, not the economy.

both those things are happening.

the other predictions in regards to great violence around the world and danger for bush, HAVE been going on.

plus there are different interpretations which all mean the same thing but can manifest differently..for example the delusion that surrounds the next election. some here have said it's bush stealing it again, some have said it's a new president - yet can we really go on and think there won't be retribution for shock and awe? typically america would think so, even if they repent by voting in a new president by a landslide.

I think the astrologers deserve our gratitude for their hard work, and while we haven't been treated to any of the gang being pushed head-first into squad cars yet, they HAVE taken some hits, and Bush's polls ARE down, and Iraq IS a mess. I know it's frustrating to see them seemingly getting away with things, but the media is still owned, censored and not giving us the whole truth (or much of any truth at all), but that doesn't mean these things aren't happening. I have personally heard quite a few republicans voicing their "disappointment" in Bush, DESPITE the sugar-coated news - it's not as strong an indictment as I'd like to hear, but it's there. The voting machines are our biggest threat. Anyway, forecast on, you wonderful astrologers.

Bravo dedacherry. Wish you were making that speech before Congress. There is so much that needs to be fixed in this country before ordinary folks can see any improvement in their lives, because so few in power really have the interest of the masses at heart. It's just like when Madeline said that she has never gotten more than a few crumbs from this country's great prosperity - she speaks for many of us.

Laurie, not surprised at the damage to the Buckingham Palace gardens. Typical of George riding roughshod over everyone. Looks like it also extends to flora and fauna. He's like the proverbial "bull in a china shop". The man has no finesse.

I think we should pay close attention to what's going on in Georgia(Russia). It may work against the Bush administration in the future. The ex-president who was recently toppled in a bloodless coup, was a cronie of Bush Sr., and consequently a friend of the present administration. It won't be the first time that America has supported a corrupt despot just as long as he did their bidding, and of course it is all related to oil again, so now they will have to woo the new president to try and get their way with him. We'll have to wait and see if it works.

I wish the US had allowed the Iraqis to orchestrate their own coup as the Georgians did. No power vacuum was created, and none of the catastrophic consequences that resulted from the Iraq debacle.

Crystal, as a wise friend said to me about Georgia, "Consider it an omen.".

Moby targets Bush in TV ad

AFP - Electronic pop supremo Moby has teamed up with Jonathan Soros - son of billionaire George Soros - in launching an internet competition for a TV commercial attacking President George W Bush.

The contest, called "Bush in 30 seconds" is open to the general public and will be judged by a celebrity panel including actors Jack Black and Janeane Garafalo, REM frontman Michael Stipe and documentary film maker Michael Moore.

"Anyone can make and submit a 30 second TV ad that is somehow based around'the truth about George Bush'," Moby wrote on his website www.Moby.com.

Ten entrants will be shortlisted for the judges, with the winning commercial to be broadcast before Bush's January State of the Union address.

The competition is being organised with the help of moveon.org - the online advocacy group that helped coordinate nationwide protests against the war in Iraq.

"For the last three years, President Bush's policies have ransacked the environment, put our national security at risk, damaged our economy, and redistributed wealth from the middle class to the very wealthiest Americans," said moveon.org's Eli Pariser.

"As the 2004 election nears, it's crucial that voters understand what President Bush's policies really mean for our country. And to do that, we need creative new ads that clearly show what's at stake," Pariser said.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/Entertainment/story_53377.asp

Actually, several plutocrats have gone down lately d/t the people having had enuf... mostly in So America. The one in Georgia was a nice addition. It's not that The People haven't been trying before now... it's just that it appears it hasn't been THEIR time until now! Don't know why We, the People (USians) can't be part of THAT trend. ...& I'm pretty sure we are/will be. ;O)

A few months ago, Transparency.org released the international 2003 corruption perception index list. This administration in particular paints itself and the U.S. as the paragon of virtue to be emulated by the rest of the world, and yet, this year's list drops it to 18th on the list, down from 16th a couple of years ago. Note, the US is lower than all commonwealth countries and most of the “Old Europe” that Rumsfeld had the nerve to disparage earlier this year.

Interesting to note the rankings for countries of the “coalition of the willing” for the Iraq war (as named by the state department in March 2003)
Denmark 3rd (perceived least corrupt)
The Netherlands 7th
Australia 8th
United Kingdom 11th
United States 18th
Japan 21st
Spain 23rd
Estonia 33rd
Italy 35th
Hungary 40th
Lithuania 41st
South Korea 50th
Bulgaria 54th
Czech republic 54th
Latvia 57th
Columbia 59th
El Salvador 59th
Slovakia 59th
Poland 64th
Turkey 77th
Romania 83rd
Nicaragua 88th
Albania 92nd
Ethiopia 92nd
Philippines 92nd
Uzbekistan 100th
Macedonia 106th
Azerbaijan 124th
Georgia 124th
Not rated: Afghanistan; Eritrea

Politicians with integrity and honest ethics are a rare breed indeed. How sad for humanity.

Senate Bill for medical coverager of seniors was concluded and called on 11/25/03 at 9:52am EST Washington DC.

Conference Report on H. R. 1 Medicare Prescription Drug and Modernization Act passed 54 to 44.

This is an ugly chart. Heavy 12th house....Pluto, Mercury, Moon, Venus, and eighth houe Jupiter to second house Mars opposition. Chiron in the first house.....Uranus square the Sun.

Pat, I agree it's ugly. In this chart, the Sun and Moon do not communicate at all. Capricorn is rising which, to me, shows the corporate greed and all the 12th house planets are trying to keep the secret. Chiron on the 1st (medical) with Pluto and Mercury in the 12th in a very close conjunction, squaring Mars and squaring Jupiter - a powerful T-square. My God.

I hope you astrologers will have a look and tell us what all this means. Please.

I cliped this from Wolfstar, but I see this as backward. Since the chart is based in New York, USA, then the Sun should denote either the leader of New York or the USA. Everything else he said would apply to us not them. Always have thought it was this way not that way.
------------------------------------
From an astrological perspective, the 9-11 event horoscope (September 11, 2001; 8:46 am; NYC) provides a geopolitical map for the war on terrorism. The Sun is placed on the cusp of the Twelfth House, and can be correlated to the hidden Al Qaeda leadership. The Sun is in Virgo, which is associated with the armed forces, and squares Saturn in the Ninth House of religion.
The Istanbul bombings led analysts to say that the terrorist threat has evolved or "morphed," and points to Pluto as the leading planetary indicator. In fact, transiting Pluto was forming an exact square to the 9-11 Sun at the time. The location of Turkey is further indicated by looking at the 9-11 Astro*Carto*Graphy map that shows a Jupiter line passing very close to Istanbul. Transiting Saturn is now conjunct the 9-11 Jupiter.
Although the Al Qaeda leadership is on the run, it has become an inspiration to angry, young Islamic men. This process can be seen in the transit of religious, expansive Jupiter near the 9-11 Sun. Jupiter here reiterates Turkey as a target zone, as well as Jakarta, where another Jupiter line crosses. Transiting Jupiter turns retrograde while exactly conjunct the 9-11 Sun on January 3, pointing to an approximate time and place for increased terrorist activities.

Yes Crystal, I also wish that Iraq had been allowed to have its own bloodless coup, or one that would have been relatively bloodless. I don't think it would have been as damaging as this war has been. And since I've heard that part of the reason for Georgia's coup was vote-tampering, it just made me very depressed about the state of our democracy. Why didn't Bush have to resign or be impeached?

As for the astrology here, I think it's excellent. It is correct about the timing of events, and the zeitgeist of things---such as the continuing crumbling of the Iraq effort, and Bush's poll standings. The original inaugural horoscope predicted war, divisiveness, anger, for this administration's term. I don't understand many of the technical details of horoscopes, I'm still a student. But I know when something is accurate. The astrology here isn't a game, and it isn't for profit.

The medicare chart also puts Saturn on the 7th on Bush natal Sun. Saturn represents the democrates, so he has made quite a few enemies. Jupiter represents the republicans and they end up in the house of undoing.
Sun in the 11th. square Uranus may mean a change in congress, esp. Tom Dashal-a good thing.
Kennedy was talking about how the seniors have changed Congress before because of something like this, and I think this chart may well show it.
On election day Uranus exactly squares the medicare Sun. Looks like the republicans may have a backfire in the making.

Some common sense logic.

All airports have loads of security cameras.

The media and government would show the pictures of the hijackers in the airports before getting on the planes before 9/11.

The only picture was Atta on 9/10 and he was not in any of the airports in which the hijacked planes took off.

Common sense logic tells you that there where no pictures of hijackers in any of the airports on 9/11, therefore there where no hijackers. Plenty of sites tell how the phoney hijacking was pulled off.

Wait a minute, I could swear there were photos of two of the hijackers boarding the plane. Not just photos, a fricking video of it. I remember distinctly. It was televised after 9-11.

I don't believe 9-11 was phoney. It's the fact that the administration had prior knowledge of it and did nothing to stop it, and obviously got away with it, that's sickening.

We'll see what the chart for the signing of the Bill looks like. I hope it shows something much more positive for the people of this country.

Pat,

With Bush's innately horrible sense of timing, I suspect the chart for this Bill will stay relatively the same. I suspect, though, that the older population of this country most affected by the Bill and NOT represented accurately by the AARP will (as always) vote in droves and en masse ... and hopefully help remove this man from Office.

Jonathan

E.J. Dionne: "The battle over ... Medicare ... proves that Republicans are ruthless and determined and that Democrats are divided and hapless. "I don't mean to be alarmist, but this is the end of parliamentary democracy as we have know it," Barney Frank

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A12109-2003Nov24.html

Jonathan, we can hope. I'm not sure it is that easy any more.

Laurie, the clip you recall seeing was made at one of the regional airports near Boston's Logan airport (I don't remember the name), as they were making a connection to Logan. No videos or photos exist of any of the alleged highjackers at either Logan or Newark.

Thanks Susan. I knew I'd seen something.

Jonathan and Pat, remember Vis saying because of Pluto the Democrats are in their death throes? Is a rebirth around the corner? I really believe our friends on the right would enjoy a one-party system, so they can always have what they want when they want it, as Hillary says.

If there had been hijackers on the airport security cameras, then they would not have shown ad infanatim the pictures of the supposedly hijackers, as they would have known that they did not match up.
They could not have matched up as 1 on the pictures was dead 6 months before and I belive it is 6 that have proved that they are still alive.
A really curious thing is that Atta was staying the day or couple of days before 9/11 in a hotel that was a couple of miles from where Bush was staying on 9/11. Mad Cow Morning News gives the best time line of what happened in Florida on 9/11 and before and after.

Remember the 3 Muslims who were charged with espionage at Guantanamo Bay? Well, today on the news, one of them, the Muslim chaplain Mr Yee, had the charges against him dropped for lack of evidence. However, new charges were laid against him - adultery, and storing pornography on his computer. Is that a riot, or what? Anyway, he was allowed to resume his duties where he was stationed before in Georgia. He happened to be one of the lucky ones who was allowed legal representation. I'm sure the charges against most of the others who were thrown into the brig without legal recourse, would prove to be false, if they were also granted access to legal counsel.

Here is the full NY Times article that deals with the previous post.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/26/national/26CHAP.html

There have been several comments on both the republican and democratic party charts. Has anyone looked at the alternate party charts -(independent, libertarian, etc)? Is there any ray of hope for we, the people?

There have been several comments about the charts of the republican and democratic parties. Has anyone looked at the charts for the lesser parties? (independent, libertarian, etc).

sorry about the double post - I thought the first got lost in the ether

Regarding the Democratic and Republican charts, I am not sure I really trust them for predicitve purposes. For the fateful election of 2002, Venus was stationary opposite the Venus of the Dem chart (00Taurus44) most of November. That was one of the reasons I didn't expect the Dems to fare so poorly. Venus disposits most everything in that chart (either rules most of the planets or rules the ruler of the planets or rules the ruler of ther ruler of planets, etc.). On the other hand, Saturn was hovering around the Sun Mercury conjunction in that chart for the 2000 election which seems appropriate. Anyway, I now tread very carefully with what that chart shows.

According the the Repub Party chart, progressed Sun has been opposite natal Saturn from 8/02 through 8/03. I don't see that at all. They have hardly experienced any limitations at all. Yes, Iraq has gone poorly, but they have acted like a steamroller im most things, hardly Saturnine.

I am struck by this big activation of Pluto as it opposes Bush's prog MC/natal Uranus for the final time around now. I expected more of a crisis (as we had in January with North Korea), but the Uranus/Pluto/MC combo can also be a sort of dictatorial power - ruthless, and obsessive. The bludgeoning and bullying tactics to get the Medifraud win, and the resulting sense of power surge Dubya must have gotten, seem to fit more into that category. The Mars Pluto square is currently still active and may bring one last powerful and aggressive event before it passes this evening.

A frightening article about the Miami protests. The line between civil disobedience and terrorism has been blurred. Miami makes me think of the Pluto opposition to US Mars coming up very soon. I think we will see more of this.

"http://www.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,5673,1093291,00.html"

snip

The latest techniques honed in Iraq - from a Hollywoodised military to a militarised media - have now been used on a grand scale in a major US city. "This should be a model for homeland defence," the Miami mayor, Manny Diaz, said of the security operation that brought together over 40 law- enforcement agencies, from the FBI to the Department of Fish and Wildlife.

snip

With the activists recast as dangerous aliens, Miami became eligible for the open tap of public money irrigating the "war on terror". In fact, $8.5m spent on security during the FTAA meeting came out of the $87bn Bush extracted from Congress for Iraq last month.

"According the Repub. Party chart, progressed Sun has been opposite natal Saturn from 8/02 through 8/03. I don't see that at all. They have hardly experienced any limitations at all. Yes, Iraq has gone poorly, but they have acted like a steamroller I'm most things, hardly Saturnine."

It's true that we have haven't SEEN them experience many limitations. However, that doesn't mean that there haven't been limitations.

No one seems to know much, if anything, about what goes on behind-the-scenes in the real West Wing. Maybe if we did that particular aspect would make more sense.

After all, how would we know if they were experiencing limitations? Who would tell us? The US Media these days resembles something straight out of the Stepford Wives. They all seem to have undergone simultaneous lobotomies. The only real news I've come across in the last three years was printed by independent and/or foreign papers.

I'm glad someone else read that article! J. Edgar Hoover is probably looking up from the great beyond smiling. It's all so disturbing. You could sit there, watching the "main stream" News 24/7, and you would never see a snippet of actual news.

There were over 100,000 people protesting in London last week. Yet, when you turned on the TV, what did you see? The "King" of Pop. Yes, Michael Jackson was the top story!

It's really scary, and it doesn't look like things are going to be getting better anytime soon.

Your predictions, about the illusions surrounding the economy, are already coming to pass. They're already saying how great things are, cheering over the unexpected, unbelievable improvements. Call me crazy, but you'd think if things were improving, we'd be gaining jobs, not losing them. However, that's exactly what happened in 15 states. I wonder if those people in Michigan and Ohio, now on unemployment, feel cheered-up by our amazing economic increases? I'm sorry to preach to the choir, but it's so infuriating!

I'm so glad this site exists. Your (all the astrologers) wonderful articles, offer those of us who have yet to be blinded by the right, a glimmer of hope. Thank you!

Nancy,

I have taken your advice to heart and decided not to return here any longer because, indeed, I have found this bunch here very quick to chastise. However, before I go, I want to thank you for your post just a couple above mine....the one where you admit major errors in your predictions for the 2002 elections. Max Cleland, Erskine Bowles and many others did not win that night as you said they would....and there was never an acknowledgment of that fact until just this moment. All this carrying on about the Mars-Pluto aspect and all we got was a bold move by Bush and a secret trip to Iraq. In England it provided Tony Blair with a bellyache! It's almost getting comical!

I still believe, like you, that we are missing something here. There is a piece of the puzzle in this predictive work that is missing.

I will say no more. Good Luck and God speed! If only one-tenth of what you say comes true then perhaps it will be enough but I hoped for so much more.

Nancy's predictions were true... however, the "elections" were rigged, bogus, illegal, junked, criminal-tampered, etc. Prominent Neptune.

good riddance "clever girl"

About prediction--amateur that I am--I e-mailed several friends early in 2000 that there would be some kind of "big upset" at the 2000 election. I couldn't figure it out--because the polls showed the candidates so close. Also Gore and Bush both had ascendants that were similar. I thought, "How can there be a landslide upset?" Didn't know how to interpret the clear forecast that there would be usually upsetting outcome. Well, we all know how that came out. The point is, the most knowledgeable astrologers (I would count all who post articles here) with the most intuitive gifts (ditto) still will sometimes have trouble knowing just how the influences will manifest themselves. The predictions made here--I have found--are much more often right than wrong. Still it is good to read everything with an open mind, Sometimes events play themselves out other than we expected--but still congruent with the signs.

Mundane predictions are extremely difficult because there are so many factors involved, and we can never know how exactly the energies will manifest. I predicted a strong Dem showing for the 2002 elections, not just due to that Venus that was so strong in the supposed Democratic Party chart, but also because Trent Lott looked like he would be so miserable in December, January and February. I assumed from that that he would not be Majority Leader and Dashle would. Instead, what happened was that Lott got creamed for the stupid comments he made at Thurmond's birthday party and he did lose his leadership status, but not because the Dems had won. That is just one example of how predictions can go awry. I was right that he wouldn't be Maj Leader, but I assumed that meant that Daschle would be.

Nancy, you are admirable--not only for your clear-eyed presentation of the aspects and influences--but also because you dare to put the patterns up against current events so as to predict some logical outcomes. Most of the time, you are right. When you predicted Trent Lott being unhappy--and wasn't he!--one DC reporter said he was so off-balance he couldn't even finish a sentence--it was helpful. The logical conclusion early on would have been that the Dems got some electoral advantage--even though that didn't happen, the loss of face of a GOP icon did help the Democrats--and you knew about it ahead of time. I think it is asking too much for predictions to be to the inch and to the second.

Thanks, Barbara. The difficulty is that I see the energies but I don't always know what they mean. I just extrapolate from current events. But that doesn't always work.

For the last presidential election I thought Gore would lose because he looked so stressed during the entire period. His natal Saturn Venus square was strongly activated right through the first months of 2001. Whereas Bush was just drowning in Venus progressions. A lot of people tried to rationalize it and say that because Gore is such a serious person, he would take winning seriously and therefore had a lot of Saturn going on in his chart. Then that old quote was drudged out about the winner being the one to have Saturn. That might be true from February on, but it wouldn't be true in November or in January for the Inauguration, imo. November is a big high - lots of success (Jupiter) and media exposure but no real responsibility yet (Saturn).

Diebold Magic? http://www.bartcop.com/111102fraud.htm

****Poll by Atlanta Journal Constitution/WSB-TV of 800 likely voters on Nov 1 For GA Governor

Roy Barnes (D) 51% up 11
Sonny Perdue (R) 40%

** "Official Results" from the 'Diebold Electronic Voting Machines' on 11/5

Roy Barnes (D) 46%
Sonny Perdue (R) 51% up 5 - that's a 16-pt pro-Bush swing - was it magic?

----------------------------------

****Poll by Atlanta Journal Constitution 11/1 for GA Senate

Max Cleland (D) 49% up 5
Saxby Chambliss (R) 44%

**"Official Results" from the 'Diebold Electronic Voting Machines'

Max Cleland (D) 46%
Saxby Chambliss 53% up 7 - that's a 13-pt pro-bush swing - was it magic?

----------------------------------

****Poll by MSNBC/Zogby on Nov. 3 for CO Senate

Tom Strickland (D) 53% up 9
Wayne Allard (R) 44%

** "Official Results"

Tom Strickland (D) 46%
Wayne Allard (R) 51% up 5 - that's a 14-pt pro-bush swing - was it magic?

---------------------------------

****Minneapolis Star-Tribune Poll on 11/ 3 for MN Senate

Walter Mondale (D) 46% up 5
Norm Coleman (R) 41%

** "Official Results"

Norm Coleman (R) 50%
Walter Mondale (D) 47% up 3 that's an 8-pt pro-bush swing - was it magic? Did they let this one stay close because they knew MN loved Mondale?

****Poll by St. Louis Dispatch/Zogby on 11/ 3 for IL Governor

Rod Blagojevich (D) 52% up 7
Jim Ryan (R) 45%

**"Official Results"

Rod Blagojevich (D) 43%
Jim Ryan (R) 44% up 1 that's an 8-pt pro-bush swing - was it magic?

---------------------------------

****Poll by Concord, NH Monitor on 11/ 3 for NH Senate

Jeanne Shaheen (D) 47% up 1
John E. Sununu (R) 46%

**"Official Results"

Jeanne Shaheen (D) 47%
John E. Sununu (R) 51% up 4 that's a 5-pt pro-bush swing - was it magic?

Isn't it amazing that all six surprises went to the Republicans? Did they let Hutchison lose AK because he was dead meat, anyway?

****************

Why did VNS bow out the morning of the election? http://www.bartcop.com/vns2002.htm

Did somebody get a horse's head in their bed?

Think back to FL 2000.

VNS said their exit polls had Gore winning handily. But bush called reporters to his hotel suite & said, "You watch - I'll win FL."

How could he look at VNS & tell them they were crazy unless the fix was in? Tue was such a shock because nobody predicted such a huge Republican wave.

Why did VNS bow out the morning of the election? Why would the official numbers lean so far to the right, so much more than the polls in 2002 or the exit polls in 2000?

When you see a question like this, you always have to ask two questions: 1. Would evil men cheat, murder & steal to control the world's only superpower? 2. Is the CIA capable of this?

The BFEE can afford to offer $5,000,000 bribes. And those honest people who refuse to play ball? The CIA has ways of making you (or your kids) vanish.

Sidebar: How the hell did Mondale lose MN? That should've gone to Mondale 65/35. If I had a staff, they'd be looking for answers, but I don't have the resources to do it. All this could be explained away as mere happenstance, but how in the world did dubya know he could guarantee victory in FL in 2000 when the exit polls had him losing big-time?

Click Here to see Networks examine VNS after election night failures
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20021106/ap_wo_en_po/us_election_vns_6

Excerpt: "Obviously, we're taking a very hard look at what happened yesterday & are reassessing our future participation in the consortium," said ABC's Jeffrey Schneider. CNN said it too was evaluating its future course.

Well, sure.

If you have some magic software, you can't have some geeks with pencils & clipboards coming back to the office with a bunch of "George Bush loses" data.

I know a little about software - I worked for a video game distributor for 12 years. Those chips are the brains of any program. It's like the chips these use in Vegas slot machines. Those chips have programmable odds.

In 1990, I had the technical skill to program a jukebox into playing a Guns & Roses song at forty minutes past every other hour. If Tequilaboy could do that 12 years ago, what makes you think that the CIA & GOP-owned Diebold (provider of the election software) can't make every tenth vote a vote for the GOP?

I'm not saying that this is the definite answer to everything, but sometimes when one simple idea answers all kinds of different questions, it should be considered.

Facts: 1. VNS surprises everyone & backs out the day of the election. 2. All the surprises Tue were pro-Republican surprises. 3. How in the world could Mondale lose MN, & by such a big margin? 4. The new Diebold software has no paper trail - it's accuracy can't be checked. They say the Democrats just didn't get out the vote this time.

If the machines were programmed to make every tenth vote GOP, how would we know?
1. Would evil men cheat, murder & steal to control the world's only superpower? That's a stupid question. 2. Is the CIA capable of this? If I could program a computer 12 years ago, that's a stupid question.

The strength & number of persons who want peace & democracy HAS BEEN, & CONTINUES TO GROW STRONGER WORLDWIDE! It looks like the reason the major US Networks "had to examine VNS after election night failures" was because the election was going to be such a landslide for Democrats that the usual "hidden" level stealing of votes was no longer enough! It remains for REAL investigative reporters & historians to get to the truth about elections 2002 (& all elections in US since the voting act of 1964 permitted black Americans to vote)!

So, citizens worldwide, BEWARE of any US influence on your "elections"! Knowing that people WANT DEMOCRACY, fascism has full time professionals working on devising methods of crafting illusions of democracy! The US is likely exporting expertise in the manufacture of ILLUSIONS OF DEMOCRATIC ELECTIONS, &, the aim is to use ALL of your official parties (esp the ones that have credibility with the people) to legitimize the right wing. In neo-fascism, it appears, parties are only token gestures, part of manufacturing illusions of debate. In fact, that's why totalitarian fascism was developed to begin with--to co-opt science into establishing "one world (DIS)order" in which corporate plutocrats rule the world by duping those that could be duped, & eliminating the rest! Of course, this requires CORPORATE OWNED MEDIA to pull off.

It's time to demand an end to science based lies! It's time to insist on no less than CLEAN govt of, by & for the people, REAL elections, & FREE press!

Best wishes, Tina Staik
A concerned American citizen

You go, JoannaO! You go, girl!

"Beginning in December 2003, in effect for all of 2004, but intensifying from mid-May through early November 2004, a potentially devastating planetary configuration will impact George Bush. This is the transit of Pluto to his 5th House, Sagittarian South Node. Pluto transiting this point brings a compulsion to act in a rash and reckless manor, not fully heeding the consequences, but WILLING TO GAMBLE ON ONE'S LUCK."

Well, it's not quite December, but, from today's Washington Post we have:
"But one thing is certain. Bush's Thanksgiving Day surprise ties him, for better or worse, ever more tightly to the outcome of the Iraq struggle.

"IT RAISES THE STAKES," said Rich Bond, a former head of the Republican Party. "When you're playing poker and somebody is coming at you, a great way to deter them is to raise the stakes. George Bush just placed his stature in an extraordinary way to reassert his commitment to Iraq."
Earlier analysis in the article by Dan Balz, a very smart political reporter: "Three images tell the story of George W. Bush's presidency." (this latest image (photo-op!) ". . .it is too soon to know whether the image of Bush in his Army jacket yesterday will become a symbol of strong leadership OR A SYMBOL OF UNWARRANTED BRAVADO."
Please, please, please let this be another incremental move forward of the "mills of the gods (which) grind exceedingly slow, but exceedingly fine"

Thanks for making that connection, bluster. I hadn't thought of it myself but you are absolutely right.

I only just realized that Inaugural Venus is being opposed right now by transiting Jupiter. This goes from just before Thanksgiving to 12/8 and then returns from mid to late January 2004. This suggests strong popularity and success for Bushco since Venus rules the Inaugural chart. We shouldn't get too upset over this. He is benefitting from this Jupiter station which is why the sudden shift of late: Medicare vidtory and the disgusting photo-op trip to Iraq.

Nancy,

And then (and I'm sure you've written about this, so forgive me if you end up backtracking) are there any difficult aspects to this Venus around campaign season and Election time? I do remember you mentioning that he'd get a bump in the polls and then crash in March. Is this perhaps the beginning of that?

Jonathan

A poster from a UK site said...

* http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20031127/pl_nm/bush_iraq_scene_dc_1

Inside Bush's Secret Trip to Baghdad

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Slouched in the back of a nondescript vehicle with a baseball cap pulled over his face, President Bush sneaked out of Texas on the first leg of his bold trip to Baghdad.....>>

(Note the ironic juxtaposition of "sneaked" and "bold"...)

The cover story, perpetuated by the White House press office, was that Bush was having Thanksgiving dinner with his family at his Crawford, Texas, ranch.

But the reality was that a Bush trip to Baghdad had been in the planning stages since mid-October, with Bush agonizing over the details.

(I don't wonder - the guy takes propaganda very seriously.)

....Bush, with national security adviser Condoleezza Rice, slipped away from his ranch in a vehicle with tinted windows, on Wednesday night, security personnel at the wheel.

(Very heroic indeed!)

They encountered traffic, something Bush has rarely faced in nearly three years of using the Marine One helicopter to get from A to B in a hurry.

"A lot of people (were) heading up to Dallas," Bush said once Air Force One was safely out of Iraqi air space. "And so we were about 10 minutes late to the plane."

To get to his Air Force One jet parked at the Texas State Technical College in Waco, Bush pulled his cap low and slumped to the side. Rice did the same.

(!!)

The vehicle passed through the gate and Bush entered the plane from the rear to avoid being seen.

The story used to explain why the plane was leaving was that it needed routine maintenance back in Washington.

...A truncated press pool was taken, its members cautioned ahead of time that the trip was a national security secret and that if word got out, it could jeopardize the president.

(But of course their presence was essential to the purpose of the whole trip.)

The plane took off for Baghdad on Wednesday night on an 11-hour flight.

Somewhere en route, a British Airways pilot thought he spotted an unusual plane from his cockpit.

"Did I just see Air Force One?" the pilot radioed.

There was a pause. Then came the response from Air Force One: "Gulfstream 5" -- a much smaller aircraft.

Another pause. "Oh," said the BA pilot.

(More lies.)

Toward the end of the flight, bullet-proof vests were distributed to those who wanted them. Flight attendants ordered all window covers closed. All lights inside the plane were turned off. Bush said he went up to the cockpit to watch the pilot, Col. Mark Tilman, land at Baghdad's airport.

The plane landed in nearly pitch darkness, a sliver of moon hanging in the sky. Passengers disembarked and climbed into vehicles for the short ride to a military mess hall.

U.S. civil administrator Paul Bremer added a dramatic flourish, telling the 600 soldiers gathered that only the most senior person there could read the president's Thanksgiving proclamation to them.

Out walked Bush. The crowd of troops wearing desert fatigues roared its approval....>>

In a word: Pathetic.

--------------
Really, I can't think of a more perfect manifestation of bushie's mega-sneaky cancer sun in the 12th AND the leo asc w/its pluto/mercury conj... all quite childish, of course, imo. Has to hide, but still wants huge accolades for a major ego feast. Gives some new meaning to Nov's holiday. ;O)

The latest PR stunt also reminds me exactly of the struttin' prancin' stunt on the bad ship lollipop... you know, "adoring crowds" of disposable war fodder--tin or plastic parts, really--& the codpiece stuffed with oodles of dirty socks. I'll bet others see it that way, too. I'll bet the present strut won't work any better than the former strut. That codpiece must've really weighed the creature down so it didn't wear it this time... tho "The Illegal Jacket" was fully evident. ;O)

Nancy

Sometime ago on this site, one of your readers/contributors "Hoodwinked", made frequent references to the chart of Islam and how it tied in with the political charts of the day. In his monographs, he painted an alarming picture of how Islam was readying for a change in its relations with the west. Have you looked at this chart yourself and given it much thought with how it ties in with the charts you have primarily working with? Thanks.

Jonathan - This Jupiter transit is something I only just noticed. So he clearly gets a bump now til around 12/8 and during the second half of January. The January one is interesting because there is so much going on then that suggests aggression and public support. So the January one might be the beginning of a big bump in February. I think in March the bump is over.

Then there is another period during the second half of April and the first half of May that I think will be aggressive in some way, with the US policy or Bush's policy being expansive, over confident (Jupiter station on Bush's Mars/prog Sun). After 5/22 things go downhill and the bumps are over. In fact I would say the next really difficult period for bush, when the rubber meets the road, so to speak, is from late May through mid-July, with him never really recovering (Saturn conjunct sun, square Moon, square Jupiter). Then trouble starts agin in mid September onward (Saturn return and square MC, semisquare Mars).

I think we will see lots of aggression, daring acts, grandiose policies (like Medicare) with not a lot to hold him back til late May. I don't think his polls will climb a lot though, maybe a bump here and there. I also think there will lots of deceptions and attempts to make things look better than they are, but with some real confusion and chaos underneath. (Neptune square Inaugural Ascendant as of March).

jamblang - I haven't worked on this chart at all. I do have a copy of it and just took a look at it. Assuming it is accurate, and I never know for sure with these old charts, Mars is at 20Virgo11, very close to the Sun of 18Virgo50 in the War on Terror chart (9/11, NY). Pluto begins its transit in December 2003 in square to that Mars degree, which could be a very strong intensification of militaristic energy. Pluto stays there for most of 2004, with special emphasis on June and early July, and October. This could bring another suggestion of a more militant and generalized Islamic response to American aggression. It is not surprising, given what is going on right now.

I think to really fully test the interpretation of this chart and all of Islam getting even more agitated than it is, one would have to do a thorough study of all the countries' charts and all of the ruler's charts to see if it looks like a volatile period for them all. From the Islam chart itself, the Pluto transit means an intensification of anger, perhaps acted on or perhaps simmering, or most likely an intensification of terrorism: Pluto (secret but lethal)square Mars (military, aggression).

Here is an excellent article from the Scotsman about the current disaster of Bush's policies in Afghanistan and Iraq. We shouldn't succumb to the illusion that things are going swimingly because of Medicare and the Iraq jaunt.

http://www.news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=1317722003

Here's yet another brilliant tribute to JFK; this time from a news correspondent in the Caribbean

The Kennedy aura November 30, 2003
by RAOUL PANTIN

Forty years on, the name John Fitzgerald Kennedy still has a resonance to it, still evokes reverent documentaries like the one screened several times by the BBC last week.

The name probably doesn’t ring a bell with young Trinidadians today. I asked a reporter in the office last week if she knew who he was. She had absolutely no idea.

That wouldn’t have been true forty years ago. In fact, no American President since JFK has managed to stir and capture the admiration and adulation of a world-wide young audience as Kennedy did, albeit during the three, brief years of his stay in the White House.

This November 22 marked the 40th anniversary of his assassination in Dallas, Texas, an event that it would be no exaggeration to say triggered serious grief around the globe.

William Manchester was one of the American authors who recorded that traumatic fallout for posterity in his The Death of A President, first published in 1967. On the day after Kennedy was murdered, Manchester noted, the United States State Department was “overwhelmed... choked with cables from US ambassadors describing the profound sadness around them and trying... to account for it.

“Typically, a consul reported that an African native had walked for miles through the bush to say, ‘I have lost a friend and I am so sorry’. The consul was bewildered. How could a nomadic bushman be a Kennedy friend?”

How indeed. Kennedy had not been in office long enough to initiate any dramatic new changes in American domestic or foreign policy. And yet his undeniable charisma appealed to the young, and not just in the United States.

Other historians have added to the lustre of the Kennedy aura since. Still others have debunked the whole “Kennedy myth” as just so much clever public relations. More cynical writers have attacked his spoil-rich-kid background, accusing his wealthy father of having “bought” the 1960 Presidential election that put JFK in the White House.

And, in keeping with a now accepted trend in American journalism, some writers have also pointed to Kennedy’s sexual indiscretions while he was in the White House, charging him with being a great “womaniser”.

That was not “news” in the early 1960s. In last week’s BBC documentary, the veteran TV anchorman, Walter Cronkite, explained that reporters at that time didn’t regard presidential sexual escapades as “news”, unless, of course, it had a direct bearing on his politics.

That was to change, with a vengeance, in later years. When presidential candidate Gary Hart subsequently challenged reporters to prove allegations that he, too, was a “womaniser”, they staked out his hotel and caught a young model leaving his room after, obviously, spending the night.

That was the end of Gary Hart’s presidential campaign and the end of his political career.

But had Bill Clinton been President in 1960, Monica Lewinsky would probably have remained just another anonymous bimbo.

What a lot of people who can still remember exactly where they were and what they were doing on that fatal afternoon of November 22, 1963 have probably long forgotten is that a year before that Kennedy stood on the brink of a nuclear holocaust.

It was the closest the world had ever come to World War 111—and it could easily have come to that had not cooler heads prevailed.

In October 1962, an American U-2 spy plane had taken pictures of Russian missile sites under construction in Cuba. The missiles, which packed nuclear warheads, were capable of striking the United States with just five minutes of warning time.

The Pentagon was unanimous in its recommendation to President Kennedy: the missile sites should be bombed, to be followed by an invasion of Cuba.

In 1961, with the approval of Kennedy, Cuban exiles in Miami had, with some support from the American military, launched an invasion of Cuba, the infamous “Bay of Pigs”. It had been a disaster. And now a year later, the Pentagon was itching to get back in the game.

Kennedy balked. Bombing the sites and invading Cuba, he reasoned, would force the then Soviet Union to retaliate, probably by an attack on Berlin. In which event, as Kennedy put it, the US would have to live up to its “treaty obligations” and go to war with the Soviets.

And it would undoubtedly have meant an exchange of nuclear missiles.

Instead, Kennedy decided on a maritime blockade of Cuba (the Mighty Sparrow made a hit calypso out of that confrontation, “you better turn them ships in the opposite direction”) and insisted the Cuban missiles be dismantled while secretly agreeing to withdraw American nuclear missiles from Turkey.

Fidel Castro fumed when the Russians agreed to back down; he was all for keeping the missiles and, probably, even in favour of using them. But in a nuclear exchange, Cuba would undoubtedly have been obliterated along with a large chunk of the rest of the planet.

One shudders to think what would have been the reaction of a Republican president like George Bush.

It was the most dramatic event of the Kennedy Presidency—until, a year later, when he was cut down by a sniper’s bullets during a motorcade in Dallas, Texas.

Did Lee Harvey Oswald, an insignificant nonentity, act alone? Or was he part of a larger conspiracy? The official version still insists that Oswald was a lone assassin. But the doubts and the questions still linger.

The fact that the President’s younger brother, former attorney-general Robert Kennedy, was also subsequently shot and killed by an assassin gave an additional macabre fillip to the Kennedy name.

Today, it is Senator Edward Kennedy, the last of the Kennedy brothers, who continues to wield the Kennedy name, and influence, in American politics.

Would JFK have lived up to his promise? It’s impossible to say. But for a brief, shining moment he represented the “brightest and the best” that America had to offer the world—and it is that memory, that promise and that aura that continues to keep the Kennedy name alive.

Nancy, you were right about increased violence in Iraq, on both sides. I just saw this Alert in the NY Times:

U.S. Military Kills 46 Iraqis in Series of Attempted Ambushes on U.S. Convoys in Iraq (3:44 PM ET).

Oh Lord!! 46 Iraqis? It just goes on and on.

If the time on that Iraqi chart I have is correct (it is from Nicholas Campion's book), then Uranus will square the MC in February and then begin its sojourn opposite the Asc not long after that. Since it is already in hard aspect to both points, I can't imagine a peaceful time will come til at least these aspects are fully done. I think it will be a long and bitter winter.

Sigh....

Nancy

Thanks for looking at the Islam chart. I can appreciate your point about the very general nature of such a chart and just as importantly the difficulty in knowing the accuracy of the starting point of such an old chart. I have spent a lot of time living in the Islamic world and I guess it has been a fear of mine for some time now that we are slowly agitating unstable Islamic elements to a level of fury, world wide. I hope not because the consequences of that are extranational and not easily palliated.

If we develop a more independent energy supply, and get out of the Middle East, except as trade partners, there would eventually be less animosity toward us. With proper leadership, we could move in that direction. But it may take a couple of humiliating defeats to move us in the right direction.

This article is quite interesting. I think he is right; we have already lost both wars.

http://www.antiwar.com/lind/lind1.html

Great article by Lind, Nancy. What he offers, is a big dose of reality. That's the way I see it too.

I just want to point out that while Jupiter slowly moves in opposition to Inaugural Venus, Bush has had the Medicare win, the successful Iraq trip, the current bump in the polls and in the Stock Market. It should stall a bit after 12/7, though not plummet. Then he gets another nice bump in the second half of January, just when so many aggressive indicators are going on.

It is a very strong aspect to have Jupiter, the co-ruler of Venus in Pisces, opposite Inaugural Venus which is the ruler of the chart and thus symbolic of the administration and how it is perceived (Ascendant). The entire station (late November through January) is close enough to give some protection, but I think we will be really noticing it mainly for the exact transits (that is more than enough!).

Nancy - I have to agree with the poster who said she was sure "if Bush fell out a window, he would go up". Nice for him that he has some "bumps" coming up to push his luck ... any chance he has some "lumps" coming that will knock him down a few pegs? I guess we can only hope that this crazy period ends soon!

To those of you who have a tv service: Does he appear unwell on the tv? Maybe I've just been looking at too many caricatures. Tnx.

Joni - Bush had a pretty bad period from June through October when the CIA outing scandal was talked about a lot and Iraq was getting worse and worse. Now Saturn is fading and although the disaster continues in the background (Afganistan and Iraq), his aggression is in the foreground: more aggressive in Iraq, pushing Medicare pretty roughly, etc. I don't think the next comeuppance of any real power will come til June and July, then a brief break (vacation?), then the downhill time from September onward. That is how I see it anyway.

The Dems have to look well-versed in national security issues, able to handle a war and handle the world issues.

nancy--why does pluto represent the u.s. coalition and not the underground insurgency of the iraqui guerillas attempting to resist the saturnian imposition of a new reality on iraq?

w - In the chart for the Gulf War, Pluto is conjunct the MC. I see the MC as the US governing authority and the IC, which is conjunct Saturn, as the indigenous energy, the people. If Pluto hadn't been on the MC, I wouldn't have connected it to tthe US coalition, likewise Saturn and the IC. So specifically in that chart that is how I read it.

Normally, I would agree that Pluto symbolizes the masses and the sheer power of them upwelling and causing transformation. But it is also the power of fascism and overwhelming control and power from above. Pluto is always a double edged sword; it can work either way.

Above all, that chart, with the Saturn Pluto opposition T squaring to the Sun, shows an ongoing power struggle that continually thwarts the intial and essential goal of the war (the Sun). I think when Pluto is exactly on the MC, 12/8 to 1/9 is the first pass (assuming our birth time is correct), we will see the tremendous power struggles intensify. The Shia leader who has been disagreeing with Dub's election plans may be part of it. I don't know if an increase in actual violence is part of it initially. That may calm for a few weeks. It is hard to say.

After two years in Washington, I often long for the realism and sincerity of Hollywood.

nancy--if the chart is drawn for bagdad wouldn't the mc refer to an iraqui purpose\career i.e. the insurgency--the fact is that the washington planners completely underestimated the intensity and strength of the insurgency and continue to do so today--wouldn.t the mc drawn on a washington chart tell us more about the role of the coalition?--i agree that the shia nation for lack of a better term is the real wildcard and with 70 percent unemployment in iraq waiting for the coalition to dispense with the former bathists may not be politically practical--they may have to enter the fray at which point the proverbial all hell would break loose--the insurgency is no less fascistic as the coalition--they certainly are not innocents in this struggle-- not exactly holiday tidings but i enjoy your work--w

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