Astroworld: TNO's & Political Extremism

TNO's & Political Extremism

"It's a robust time, probably the most fertile time for the underground and for revolution since Nixon. I'm not talking about political overthrow; I'm talking about just general cultural revolution. Bush has polarised the country and is creating this breeding ground for an opposition. In the next couple of months, they'll probably make it unpatriotic to be Democrat. It's pretty crazy." Neil Young

"To me, there hasn't been in doubt in my mind for a few years that with Pluto coming down on the US Asc. and inconjuncting the US Sun that we would experience and see the worst of ourselves, ... what's happening is vicious. Varuna sheds more light on the subject, as does Pluto on Ereshkigal and trans-Pluto on Regulus and Neptune having passed the US south node and now conjunct black hole Kybele and Attis (and speaks to blind devotion)." Sally McDonald

Maya del Mar has a couple of May articles dealing with the Confederacy and the Bush ascendency. Daykeepers reviews the argument that in simple terms, the South had risen again and taken over the country, as they promised to do after the Civil War; from Michael Lind's book, Made in Texas. In The Confederacy To The Rescue, Maya starts the article with stating that since 1994, the overt dominance of the South in U.S. politics has been unmistakable.

If we were to look around to see what astro event corresponds with this mundane occurrence, we find this is when the planetary objects that orbit our Sun, but are beyond the sphere of Neptune, trans-Neptunian objects (TNO's) began to be uncovered.

And it's no mistake that it's manifested with bringing Republican conservatism and Bush into power, Pluto and Varuna are very active within both the Republican and the Bush charts. There's no argument here that the South has ascended; I'd merely point out that the vehicle is the Republican Party, and that one of the driving forces of this political extremism are the TNO's, which includes Pluto, Varuna, Quaoar, and Ixion as the four majors. I'll dwell on the first two.

Looking at the Republican chart of 1854, Varuna is sitting at about 19' Sagittarius, directly conjunct Bush's natal south node, and transiting Pluto has come to set them off. Before we get to that, let’s note that the Democrats happen to stumble into this with their progressed Sun at ~19' Sagittarius, being multi-year shadowed by transiting Pluto. You hear it in the press, and it's true, there really is an ongoing battle for the soul of the Democratic Party.

The Democrats are in the midst of rebuilding themselves, while the Republicans are in the midst of tearing it all down. Given the circumstances, the Democrats would do best not to build in the same paradigm structure. In fact, if they do, they will go up in flames, feeding the Republicans power trip all the way down.

USS Varuna (1862-1862)

"The Last Broadside of the Varuna."

Blinded by their desire to annihilate the Democrats (whom serve as the evil ‘other’ projection domestically), the Republican Party, led by George Bush, is putting the finishing touches to a self-destructive gambling spree that is intent on imposing global destabalization. Why does Pluto - Varuna - South Node play out this way?

Pluto is destruction, endings, new beginnings, into transformation or death; Varuna is about “one mans loss is another mans gain”, the karmic turn of events; and the south node is about being stuck in the same old same old, because it works the fear of change.

Bush has Varuna conjunct his Aires midheaven, Pluto is in his first house of identity, and Bush's south node is in his fifth house that includes gambling (and he's used to winning). The Republican Party has Varuna at 19 Sagittarius, probably near conjunct the midheaven. The Republican's Pluto is in the Taurus, probably in the 2nd house. The overtures of reek of careers made of money mixed in with fundamentalist beliefs (be it religion, patriotism, anti-taxation...). There's no room for compromise, it's lockstep all or none, hence, the consistent 95% approval among Republicans for Bush.

They had it coming for us. The Republican Sun and George Bush's Sun are conjunct in Cancer, alongside the USA Sun. A Trifecta match lit up in the house. When?

Did I mention 9/11? --The disaster-turned-boon for Bush and the Republicans-- Varuna was conjunct the triple Sun trifecta mentioned above, in Cancer that day, along with Jupiter-- the gift that keeps on giving... hey, the Republicans even plan on doing a 9/11 Bush 2004 convention in NYC to celebrate their success at politicizing the disaster toward their electoral advantage.

This is primal stuff being dredged up for the 'leaders' to play out on the screen for us to see. For the believers, you see them in emulated form with their massive Ford F750 12mpg city pickup and the 8 by 24 inch bumper sticker plastered across the the rear:

"BOYCOTT CANADA, FRANCE, GERMANY"

WTF? It's scary if you are watching, and for those on the ride, who have arrived at the irrationality of fear and hate, there's only one possible ending. I don't see a reason to stand in the way, getting run over, as they are intent on some sort of end times, let it be their own. And that, along with the Democratic Party dilemma, is why we see only 35% of the population participating in the elections.

I've concentrated on Varuna and Pluto, of the TNO's, and their influence with the Republican ascendency, but as Niel Young said above, there has become a breeding ground of cultural revolution in the country going on at the same time as Varuna, and the other TNO's have become open to our shared reality. Quaoar crossed over the US ascendent during the war protests in March, and needs to be further explored. Ixion comes up in a few years to cross over the ascendent.

These TNO's have immense implications for the USA. Varuna, discovered while atop Bush's, the Republicans, and the USA Sun, in 2000. Quaoar and Ixion come up to light in their last few years in the 12th House of the 12' Sagittarius USA chart. These latter two TNO's made a once in a... (million?) year conjunction with Pluto while ingressing into Sagittarius in 1994, the year of the Republican Revolution. And it's resulted in dredging up all the 12th house repressed agressinon issue of the USA, bringing them into consciousness as the three cross over the US ascendent.

Varuna gives, and Varuna takes away. How we've seen Varuna and the other TNO's manifest is through political extremism. But the cycles of nature enforce that a swing to one extreme entails (and usually much quicker than imagined) a swing the other way. So, Varuna has played a key part in all of this, how long must it go on?

Well, we are still in the midst of uncovering the TNO's, we might actually uncover larger ones. Saturn, as it moves into Cancer will become conjunct transiting Varuna (as well as the triple Sun trifecta mentioned above). This is going to put a damper on the confidence of Republicans, Bush, and the US. It will make them angry things are not going their way, and they will fight harder.

The USA has went to bed with the Republican Party (most, through a "if you don't choose, you still have made a choice" causality), and after an all-night binge, America gets to wake up to what it's wrought. Saturn in Cancer; maybe the Democrats begin to realize as a Party that they are the people's voice in the establishment! They do best, as the recent events in the Texas redistricting show, when they get creative and make a stand outside the authoritative structure.

I don't put blind hope with Saturn ingressing into Cancer, as Sally told me in an e-mail, "Saturn might do his job but not in the manner we hope, what it might do is bring a curtain of repression down on the US with a bang." Also impacting is Mars, in its closest pass in 73,000, it is going to heat things up pretty good this summer, maybe bringing earth changes. There's a new identity being formed here right now, and it's all a part of our realities. Take control of what you know, it's the only destiny you have.

Buoyed by Resurgence, G.O.P. Strives for an Era of Dominance

A Sickly Economy, With No Cure in Sight

Fear of a Quagmire?

When the dust of war settles, the dying is not done

Stating the Obvious: But then maybe that's the point. The Financial Times suggests that "more extreme Republicans" actually want a fiscal train wreck: "Proposing to slash federal spending, particularly on social programs, is a tricky electoral proposition, but a fiscal crisis offers the tantalizing prospect of forcing such cuts through the back door." Good for The Financial Times. It seems that stating the obvious has now, finally, become respectable.... "For them," it says of those extreme Republicans, "undermining the multilateral international order is not enough; long-held views on income distribution also require radical revision." ...the people now running America aren't conservatives: they're radicals who want to do away with the social and economic system we have, and the fiscal crisis they are concocting may give them the excuse they need. The Financial Times, it seems, now understands what's going on, but when will the public wake up?

For more information on the confederacy, southern issues, and astrology, visit Ed Kohout's site, star timing, of which one article that I'd refer to is Masonic Astrology in the Confederate States of America.

"Line engraving above, published circa the 1860s, depicting USS Varuna continuing to fire at Confederate forces as she sank, during the battle off Forts Jackson and St. Philip, below New Orleans, Louisiana, on 24 April 1862."

Vis Numar on May 27 | Link

Comments

Vis, you're back hurray and this article was well worth the wait. Vis, I know you've been really studying the TNO's and certainly, you and Alex Miller-Mignone know more about them than anyone I know. I know this is all really cutting edge Astrology, but do you think Varuna, since it is on the US Sun as well as GWB, could bring a revolution or a revolt by the US against current policies?

Great Great work

Posted by: Sally on May 27, 2003 04:57 AM

I am a big believer of multiple possibilities. Like say, a 65% turnout to vote in 2004. I know there's a revolution happening on the internet; on the street, Niel Young is in a much better place to judge this historically, than I would be, but as he says, it's not political, it's cultural. The dilemma is to merge the two, so that all the "cultural creatives" get involved politically.

Just taking the four TNO's I've mentioned, there is such a strong theme for the US. Varuna is moving over the Sun as the other three cross over the ascendent. That just blows me away. These planets take hundreds of years each to cycle the Sun, and here, the big four show up on our doorstep of consciousness at the same time they are doing this, WOW.

If there was ever a time for the US to rebirth and transcend into a reality that we all strive for, this is the time.

That said, it won't be televised, it's way underground, but I think there's a chance, if we see the right opposition to Bush, that it turns up to vote-- it certainly is there in the stars, as one use of the aspects to manifest.

Posted by: Vis on May 27, 2003 05:21 AM

Vis, wonderful article.

Maybe I'm being simplistic, but when the TNO is over, will we be rid of these radicals (or as I believe, nuts)? Also interesting is Sally's email to you. If these nuts clamp down on us further, democracy (or what little there really was and is) is no more. I fear there will be little or no rebellion---in this morning's (5/27) NYT, an article reports that the Baby Boomers children overwhelming support the government and the military. Alas, they have won the minds and hearts of the future.

Posted by: Janet on May 27, 2003 02:31 PM

Thank you for this analysis though I am thinking it is possibly the extreme view of the desires of the extremists. Much of the perspective of recent includes the in-fighting within the administration and the political view that the administration has not planned effectively for long term change (Post Iraq invasion, post Afghan) (as they see it should be) which I see as the achilles heel here for all of us- I believe everyone has known some change must come but there is much subconscious battling about what this change should be -Is it possible to speculate in what house of the US chart this might play out -an alternative to the most destructive choices being made for us now?...As you indicated and I think all writers have eluded to,it is important for us all to be more clear for ourselves what we hold true to bring the new in - we must be willing to do this sort of on our own without our leaders - I do not believe the leaders are clear or reviving the law of the confederacy - rather they are holding on to the old whatever that is and without knowing the Republicans chart too well I would guess there is something selfish about the chart which I mean in the most benevolant way - meaning the party is about self interests and not able to focus on the greater good - maybe that is a stretch but much as you noted the democrats chart indicates the aspect of soul searching - I would contend the Republicans only appear to have widespread support (and these days I do not believe any polls posted in the papers should be trusted)...sure they have an "agenda"and I believe self deception runs very deep...--- my prediction - my gut feeling is that there will be many more natural disasters here and in the world and with the economic bottom falling out- suffering will increase in such a way that we can not really play this blame game so willfully and bullies can not be as effective when we are already way way down and beaten...Thus the astrology maybe will show we can choose to act first with love in whatever planetary aspects are occurring in the times and redirect this path our leaders think they are taking us on.

I must admit that when I read such as Senator Byrd's recent speech I would like to know if there are possibly any prominent figures who have the strength in their charts to challenge the ruling ideology and offer an alternative to people
that truly speaks to people - outside the election arena that is because really regardless of who gets in they will be handed the aftermath of this administrations doings and will be severely compromised...Thank you for your input.

Posted by: Madeline on May 27, 2003 05:21 PM

Madeline, I believe the collective will play this out economically, just as they did following the "Roaring 20's"
I remember doing a lecture on astrology back in 1998 and made mention of the guilt association and constant need to prove ourselves as a nation with the Mars/Neptune square and the Sun/Saturn square in the US chart. I said then we will collectively find a way to lose what we have to atone for prosperity. I guess I didn't think it would be this dramatic.

I do think the possibility of natural disasters haven't been factored into the equation here and the potential is pretty great. I read a very interesting article (but cannot find it now and can't remember where I saw it) that everytime there is violence on earth, Mother Nature reacts with her own violence. The author of the article had corresponding examples. The point was that Mother Nature didn't seem to like earth being attacked.

The message at all the cosmic levels IS saying "learn to get along, learn to share." And you're right, who ever is president, if they are different, will have to spend time cleaning up this mess, in fact it will take several presidents. Claudia Dikinis of Starcats says it's going to take another 20 years to clean this up. But we will do it.

Posted by: Sally on May 27, 2003 05:46 PM

Just one teeny little comment about "Bush's south node is in his fifth house that includes gambling (and he's used to winning).":
It appears to me that he's not so much used to winning as used to _not losing_ because he's been shored up by Daddy's contacts and the ruthless cabal financing him for their own ends. I doubt there exists any record of any real accomplishment the man has achieved on his own.
You know what they say about Bush Sr. & Jr. "born on third base, thought he hit a triple".

Posted by: b on May 27, 2003 07:49 PM

B, your teeny comment carries a gigantic truth.

Posted by: Janet on May 27, 2003 07:58 PM

in line with what the financial times exposed, i have feared also that not only are the extreme republicans interested in financial failure, to bring about structural changes even more in their favor: i think the gun laws have something similar happening. for example, by june 13 all iraqis are to turn in their guns (or be "punished"). they would never have that law here. why? because the peole with the guns here are on their side. does anyone follow what i'm saying? and i have heard republicans in the clinton era saying we have the constitutional right for a gun so we can rise up against a govt. hmm..what about for a govt? a civil war in this country would leave most of the opposition dead, the opposition to guns obviously...people on both sides would be jailed of course, and for the govt., that's 'free' ($) "govt" workers...a terrible scenario..and i definitely hope saturn cuts the other way.

it would be such a beautiful thing to see the country swing the total opposite way next year, of where it is to-day...it would be so glorious for me personally - even better than the fantastic nite clinton (who i'm just ok with), beat bush I..but needlesstosay, I won't be investing or buying any property here these days...in fact any money i may make in the next 12 months will be turned into euros..

Posted by: Roxanne on May 28, 2003 12:16 AM

You make some good points imo, Roxanne. I just posted one of a number of articles on US dollars & euros. Like this one: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A43615-2003May27.html

Posted by: JoannaOregon on May 28, 2003 01:30 AM

Madeline, at least for the TNO's, it's playing out right at the core of figuring out what the identity of the US is going to be-- we as a people; because it's all centered around the ascendent, and conjunct the Sun.

And of course, there is no agreement.

But I don't see the battles occurring in the WH any longer, the Cabal have won:
SELECTIVE INTELLIGENCE
http://www.newyorker.com/printable/?fact/030512fa_fact

Posted by: Vis on May 28, 2003 06:17 AM

And these cracker supremacist boyz are nuttier than bedbugs that's smelled a warm body. If that "bigger they are, the harder they fall" axiom is true, & I think it is, these monsters are going to be mashed flatter n' a fritter. And good riddance!

Posted by: JoannaOregon on May 28, 2003 08:31 AM

Varuna is so newly discovered that it is still debatable what affects it has. The Varuna influence seems to be powerfully judgmental, high & mighty, omnipotent, unaccepting, and arrogant. Think about America, the Republicans, and GWB . . . all entities have this influence on their Suns right now. I'll bet there are times when this man thinks he's God himself, and it's going to get worse before it gets better. Varuna will reach exact longitudinal conjunction with GWB's natal Sun in August 2003.

We all have to deal with Saturn but, like they say, the more power one "misuses" the more one falls. Jupiter and Varuna were crossing GWB's Sun on 9/11/01. In October this year or thereabouts, it will be Saturn and Varuna. I could be wrong, but it seems to me Saturn and Varuna combined will put a huge damper on that arrogance.

I read somewhere that Hitler had a strong Varuna, can't remember where now. Varuna exactly conjunct his IC with a perfect trine to Pluto in the 8th house. Power and misuse of same.

Posted by: Laurie on May 28, 2003 10:33 AM

Speaking of 9/11/01, it could be that date that ends up Bush's undoing. I've always thought that. They are hiding something. Someone may just spill some beans in Bush's lap.

Posted by: Laurie on May 28, 2003 10:37 AM

One of the things they're trying to suppress about 9/11 is the number of briefings during the "summer Whitehouse" in Crawford in August about terrorist activities that GWB ignored. It's in Isikoff's Newsweek article and referred to this morning in Maureen Dowd's column in the NYT. These briefings went direct to him, not to staff only.

Posted by: bbuster on May 28, 2003 12:00 PM

I think the powers that be have had enough of Maureen Dowd and have decided to go after her reputation. Notice nothing was ever said when she was on Clinton's back.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/duforum/DCForumID45/2685.html

Posted by: Laurie on May 28, 2003 12:29 PM

Laurie and Bbuster, wouldn't it be interesting if the 9/11 event which catapulted Bush to high poll numbers ironically becomes the event which plummets his poll numbers.

Posted by: Janet on May 28, 2003 01:19 PM

Hello All,

I've been coming to this site since the last election. I've never studied astrology but I want to thank you for bringing me such comfort.

Regarding 9/11, I wonder if you have already seen this?

http://astro-cycles.com/update_05oct01.htm

Lena

Posted by: Lena on May 28, 2003 02:46 PM

Lena,

I read your link - thank you and a good reference for meditation these days --- I mean really when I think about it the "cabal" as our leaders are called here - their overreach and misuse of their power is proportional to the people's will (I hate generalizations but here I go) to allow them to continue so that it is hard to know which came first the people's complacency or the will of all who were instrumental in selecting our current administration...no matter how more sane I think I am - I must confess to acting complacent regarding issues in my own experience for too long - thus in reference to that 9/11 interpretation - we the people will recognize our part in this - which I think ties into Vis's response to me here that this is going to play out in the context of our country's identity or self identity. We are searching - I am quite earnestly and everyone's sincerity here is greatly needed - I can not thank you enough - for I am really already economically devastated by our situation and this is the only opportunity I have to sort these ideas out - so that I tread more consciously from here on out...thank you for this - because I prefer to consider these things in the astral context which is provided here allowing me to consider beyond my own awareness. The link Lena gave indicated we will know more about 9/11 in 3 to 4 years which seems to me a remarkably short time but this must be indicative of the urgency or quickening (?) of what I believe is happening to us very profoundly - this is not about life styles or religious correctness.

Also, whatever Varuna's energy is offering to our earthly experience such qualities as arrogance I don't believe are planetary but rather the behaviours manifested when power is misused with regard to any planet and its' position - I know this has been said by others here also.

I am looking for more about that U.S. south node and transits cited...

Posted by: Madeline on May 28, 2003 05:59 PM

American Death Camps

http://www.couriermail.news.com.au/printpage/0,5942,6494000,00.html

Several of these hardcore terrorists are between 10 and 14 years old.

Vis, round one to the Neo Cons, the People are waking up.

Posted by: Morgana on May 28, 2003 11:35 PM

Thanks, Morgana for sharing that. It does seem that maybe people are indeed waking up at last. I came across this one here that is a good article too:

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0528-10.htm

From the Scotsman in Scotland ...seems people there are asking big questions now as well - thank goodness! May we see more and more of this in the weeks to come. Siobhan

Posted by: Siobhan on May 29, 2003 12:33 AM

Sorry to post twice but wanted to suggest that you look at the Common Dreams site listed above - they have wonderful articles that have really helped us through this miserable time. Nice to know there are lights out there in the darkness! Thanks, Siobhan

Posted by: Siobhan on May 29, 2003 12:38 AM

From your excellent article:

"It's a robust time, probably the most fertile time for the underground and for revolution since Nixon. I'm not talking about political overthrow; I'm talking about just general cultural revolution."

Vis, you make my heart sing! Political overthow would be just fine too.

Posted by: Pat on May 29, 2003 12:40 AM

Regarding death camps: It is so hard for me to believe we are talking about the United States of America. Maybe that is what is taking so long for us to wake up, we don't think it could possibly happen. This stuff should be front page news and they either bury it or we find it on the internet. I certainly hope the FCC doesn't get de-regulated and make things worse.

Posted by: Laurie on May 29, 2003 01:28 AM

It's frightening to think that the U.S. is getting away with the Guantanamo Bay fiasco and nary a country in the whole world dares to voice its opposition.

As for Rumsfeld, the man gives me the creeps. You just have to look into those steely eyes to see the evil that lurks there, and they have the nerve to talk about the "axis of evil"? It sounds like a bad joke, or some nightmare that we'll soon awawken from.

Posted by: Crystal on May 29, 2003 04:27 AM

Here is a little Palestinian history for our history buff, Roxanne, who seems a little weak in this area.

http://www.deiryassin.org/pr001.html

Posted by: Crystal on May 29, 2003 04:36 AM

The problem with trying to interperate charts for 9/11 is that almost all of what most people believe about 9/11 is not true. Don't get me wrong, I do reasearch on some aspect of astrology almost every day and am a direct psychic.

But the way to understand 9/11 is to read everything you can find on the internet and use your common sense. Be open to the fact that, that which is called conspiracy theories, may be the truth and the real consipiracy was what the media told you. That is the way to find truth from the illusion painted by the gov. and the media. Then the 9/11 chart makes sense.

A good site to start with might be "Mad Cow" site. A bit off beat. But you will find out how much you do not know. It is concentrated on the happenings on the west coast of Florida in about a 100 mile stretch pre, on, and post 9/11. I suggest starting back in the beginning achives. About 20 articles so far. If nothing else, you will know stuff that most people do not.

Posted by: Jean on May 29, 2003 07:05 AM

Jean, can you provide a link to that "Mad Cow" site? I searched but couldn't find anything like that. Thank you.

I agree that there must be a lot that is being kept hidden on 9/11.

Posted by: Laurie on May 29, 2003 11:27 AM

Laurie, I think the site Jean is talking about is Daniel Hopsicker's at:
http://www.madcowprod.com/index.html
He does a lot of original investigative reporting - the kind we don't see so much anymore!

Jean, have you taken a look at the article at the astro-cycles link above? Not being an astrologer, I'm very interested to see what you think.

Posted by: Lena on May 29, 2003 02:14 PM

Clinton wants change in presidential term limits
BOSTON, Massachusetts (Reuters) -- Former President Bill Clinton said Wednesday Congress should change the rule that barred him from seeking a third term in the White House, but stopped short of saying he wants to return as commander-in-chief.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/05/29/politics.clinton.reut/index.html

I'll take Bill for another 4 yes.

Posted by: Morgana on May 29, 2003 05:18 PM

I did look at that article. I have investigated 9/11 since the day it happened. I happen to have an email friend who was there and sent me a lot of information that he got from the police and firemen involved. When I can get information that I can rule thur my common sense and find that if X happens then Y does not make since, then I put that above any type of reading.

I don't read astrologer charts that well, but am one heck of direct psychic. I know that I was off many times. So I trust my common sense brain a bit more than my psychic brian. But certainly do not discount any astrology or psychic reading unless proved wrong.

One of the problems is that we have so much misinformation that it interferes with true readings. I know that times when I have been told flat out lies that it really messed up a reading. Sometimes when it was important to a client then the reading would keep contridicting the client also. So both can happen.
--------------------------------------
Off topic=but I think interesting. If you have not heard the baby in the Peterson murder case was realeased today at about noon. It showed a noose around the baby's neck. (What I mean about common sense is that a lot of reports say the plastic tapes that the noose was made from somehow got tangled around the neck in the water. Now ask yourself-How do you get a tied noose, with only 2 cm of slack over the head? Second question if it was not tied then how did it get a knot tied in it?)
But some very interesting astrology. On the day she became missing, Neptune was at 9 Aquarius 20. On the 31 (this Saturday) there is an eclispe at 9 gemini 20. So does this mean that the truth has come out. The preliminary trial is to start on July 16. On July 18, Mars will be at 9 Pices. Belive me I will be watching closely to see what happens in court when Mars hits exactly 9 Pices 20. Very interesting.

Posted by: Jean on May 29, 2003 10:27 PM

i think with saturn heading into cancer, it'll rear it's ugly head on the homefront, and the stories like the peterson one are going to be even more common place than ever (if that's possible in our sick lost country)..
crystal i won't read the palestinian thing because there's so much propaganda..i just look at current events and proposed peace, followed by suicides, followed by attacks, and the circle goes round and round..i have found that the problem with the palestinian side is that it wants to go into history, but it doesn't go all the way..if you use history, then you can't 'stop' in a certain era. so therefore, it's hopeless and i just look at current events to draw my opinions...when i think of the holocaust and himiliation and murders of millions i just have to have a space in my heart for a peoples who felt misplaced and wanted to go back to their homeland..

anyone have a chart for Schindler? love to see that..

Posted by: Roxanne on May 29, 2003 11:15 PM

also,in thinking about the holocaust and the millions involved..no one ever had it as bad as that. to be so humiliated, phsyically separated from your kids, people executed in front of your eyes, the gas showers..and yet they never went on suicide missions. i don't think there's real violence in their 'blood' so to speak. i understand being helpless, hopeless (like the whales, of course), but suicide is not the answer whether you believe in here only, or the hereafter.. but then i dislike alcoholics too, immensely!

Posted by: Roxanne on May 29, 2003 11:19 PM

Roxanne, you're a flake and a fake.

Posted by: AG on May 30, 2003 01:45 AM

This may be off-topic, but there have been at least two astrological analyses concerning Clinton v. Bush, round II. Adrian Duncan has just posted an excellent read at:

http://www.world-of-wisdom.com/articles/article-bush-election.htm

in case you haven't already read it.

While this is all speculation, it's fascinating none the less.

I also note that there seems to be an increase in the amount of discussion concerning the phantom WMDs. Richard Perle was part of a panel discussion on the PBS News Hour (I love Margaret Warner), and he became a little flustered in defense of the administration. Apparently Paul Wolfowitz in a recent interview admitted that the WMD argument was one of convenience for "bureaucratic reasons." Excerpts from Rumsfeld's recent press conferences show his trademark attempts to slough the issue with his usual cavalier dismissals.

Meanwhile, here in the Democratic Alamo of Austin, Texas, about 5 hours of security video was erased covering the office of Tom Delay's lieutenant, Tom Craddick, the new republican Speaker of the Texas House. There is some reason to believe that this tape could implicate Craddick in the misuse of Homeland Security reconnaissance assets for political purposes. If only Tom Delay could be tarred with this mess, which he obviously provoked....

These occurrences seem to coincide well with astrological events (Mercury direct, although Neptune seems to continue to obfuscate the truth- for the time being). Hopefully, Senator Byrd will be wrong - maybe the truth will out while it still matters.

Posted by: JC on May 30, 2003 04:10 AM

ag, no i'm really real..with a little dry scalp.... hahahahah...

Posted by: Roxanne on May 30, 2003 05:06 AM

I love this site!! This thread is fascinating! Greg Palast is on C-Span Washington Journal this morning (Friday) at 9:00. This man has been trying to uncover so many lies, starting with the fraudulent election. I'll be at work, but I'm going to try to watch it via internet. I'm so happy because I wrote to C-Span a few months back and begged them to contact Mr. Palast, that he would be a great guest! Anyway, I'm sure it wasn't my e-mail that did it, but it had to help!!

Posted by: Laurie on May 30, 2003 11:31 AM

bushie heads east -
i heard last nite that a plane's gone missing in africa somewhere..a passenger plane. they believe it's landed somewhere there.
do you think they'll have the appropriate aircraft over every where bushie goes? who would be in charge of such a thing? his close friends in russian and europe?
supposedly he'll be at fireworks displays celebrating st. petersburg in russia...during the eclipse..weird.
anyway, we can be sure this plane will end up crashing into somewhere. bin laden has a lot of things in africa, including a sapphire mine in one of those countries..
bush's relocation puts uranus (conjunct his n node) in his 8th over there, saturn just inside the 9th by his midheaven, and the uranus stuff is opp transiting pluto by 1 degree..i'm not making any predictions here, but what an idiot! fireworks displays? what a set up? maybe i've been in hollywood too long!

Posted by: Roxanne on May 30, 2003 04:41 PM

but wait, ART! your article: an airplane in nosedive? for 10 degree gemini?

Posted by: Roxanne on May 30, 2003 04:48 PM

Roxanne, First class response to ag.

On the 'Season of Death' thread I wrote that I had a dream. As I passed by people on line to buy tickets for their British Airways flight I was afraid they were going to crash.
Have been very on with synchronicity lately, hope I am wrong with this.

Happy Eclipse everybody.

Posted by: bhakti on May 30, 2003 07:03 PM

TWA Flight 800 went down on July 17, 1996 (not 100% if that's the right year) and John F Kennedy Jr's flight went down on July 16 1999.
Hmmmmmmm

Posted by: Bhakti on May 30, 2003 09:29 PM

My jaw can't drop any farther:

".. Apparently Paul Wolfowitz in a recent interview admitted that the WMD argument was one of convenience for "bureaucratic reasons."

This kind of thing should be enblazoned across every G...damned newspaper in the world. THis just makes my blood boil. What is the source for this quote? How can we get this more exposure? I mean, I want all the parents, wives, siblings and children of all the soldiers that died in Iraq NOT TO MENTION THE THOUSANDS OF INNOCENT IRAQUIS - that this whole war was BULLSHIT and now - THEY ADMIT IT without batting an eyelash??!! The ARROGANCE is just unfathomable. I can't breathe. It's time to take to the streets again, pool resources and take out full page ads, WHATEVER it takes. This just rips it for me.

Posted by: Laurie Mac on May 30, 2003 09:58 PM

http://story.news.yahoo.com/fc?cid=34&tmpl=fc&in=World&cat=Iraq

Posted by: Morgana on May 30, 2003 10:03 PM

The link to Wolfy's - WMD convenience statement.

Posted by: Morgana on May 30, 2003 10:04 PM

Morgana, any thoughts on his location and the eclipse?

Posted by: Pat on May 30, 2003 10:26 PM

Just read the whole transcript of Wolfowitz's interview. I took a moment to hunt down a barf bag before coming back to say: These people have no conscience. What a pantload! Lies upon lies.

Laurie the First, maybe it WAS your email that got Palast on CNN (WOW!) You're doing something, and that's what matters - bless you! I'm going to go back through all the articles and see what people said about the media waking up. CBS has taken the top layer of gloves off recently, I've noticed, but not near enough. Now the FCC thing - splat. What can we do? What can we DO?!! God, I'm pissed off. I'll try to be more positive. Sorry. I need a fix. Someone, please tell me exactly what day Bush goes down. So I can design my party invitations and make an effigy. ; ) Meanwhile, I'm going to write something along the lines of putting pressure on the major media outlets (and the wooly, cloven-hooved "Democrats" in Washington) to start telling the truth and compile an email list for people to send it to and try to get a little thang goin.'

Posted by: Laurie Mac on May 30, 2003 11:22 PM

hey laurie, no kidding about wolfy..y'know it's the same with the election: not allowing the votes to be recounted imo, meant he knew he lost - and didn't care if we had him sussed!

bhakti - interesting about 7/17 and flight 800 -- i always felt it was a surface to air missile but that clinton (rightly) didn't want to give the credit to al quaida, (and cripple the economy)..so maybe that's a day for them a number that sounds good perhaps?

Posted by: Roxanne on May 31, 2003 01:19 AM

Laurie Mac, I'm with you all the way, but most of us already knew that they were lying all along, and skewing facts to suit their own purposes, and what's more they will continue to do so, because nobody is calling them to account. Even the 3 European countries (France, Russia and Germany) who were bravely holding out against U.S. policy in Iraq, have now buckled under, and are now happily endorsing their plans for Iraq. Maybe they were promised a piece of the pie. Who knows what goes on with all the wheeling and dealing behind the scenes that we are not privy too? Slowly but surely the clouds are gathering on the horizon, and when the storm breaks, it will be a big one.

Posted by: Crystal on May 31, 2003 04:32 AM

What are the implications of the Bush Cabal deliberately skewing the information reports in the face of thousands and thousands of people worldwide getting off their fannies and away from the comfort of their homes in an attempt to let the administration know that they were against a pre-emptive strike against Iraq!!? Was Colin Powell in on this or was he kept in the dark? With all their reputations at stake in this, you'd think they would have treaded more carefully. Dang, dang, dang. This is big. I would like to see some members of the G8 confront Bush on this. This is going to grow and grow and grow until it blows up.

Posted by: Laurie the First on May 31, 2003 09:31 AM

Crystal and everyone - Believe me, I already knew they were lying, and have been from Day One - I am just furious that they are now brazenly admitting it and it is NOT being reported (very well.) Laurie One, I'm pretty sure Powell knew, they all knew. They have become so arrogant and feel they are "untouchable" because they public isn't getting the real truth, and they know the people "never" will, as long as they own the networks. It's that "never" I keep hoping will explode. It's the media - this is all riding on the media. THEY are who we need to put the pressure on. Crystal, I hadn't heard that France, Germany & Russia are buckling under?! (I try to avoid the news of very late - just can't stomach it)..I did think it was odd that Smirk Monkey was going to FRANCE - ?! I was surprised they'd let him in!

Laurie One, I hope and pray you are right - I want to see this get blown wide open. If it doesn't... Well,I'm getting a new passport next week. Let's see what happens with the FCC on Monday (as if...)

Posted by: Laurie Mac on May 31, 2003 09:26 PM

Looks like more is hitting the fan..AP is carrying this, yahoo headlining it.

Bush, Blair Face Heat on Iraq Weapons

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=3&u=/ap/20030531/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_what_weapons__3

You're so right Laurie Mac, getting the media on it and Bush will topple. I think Jr. is in a crunch, FCC has been flooded with emails against this action.

Pat, right now I'm watching with my jaw on the floor. With Bush on his processional, anything can happen.

Posted by: Morgana on May 31, 2003 10:11 PM

Well, well, well - the PENTAGON is sending a new group of "inspectors" - This IS "planting season" isn't it? Who wants to bet the farm they'll suddenly find WMD when the new "inspectors" come to town? Things must be getting hairy if George Tenet is getting defensive. The lies are just oozing out their ears. Oh, God, does my heart dare hope? IS this the beginning of the end? I remember an article written a while ago on the Astrologer's Perspective site that foretold of a huge scandal starting right about now (well, in July), and with all the affirmation others on this site have given, I'm going to take my moment of happiness now and confirm in my heart that these bastards are going down real soon. Meanwhile, I'm compiling media addresses.... ; )

Posted by: Laurie Mac on May 31, 2003 10:32 PM

Here's the article I mentioned above

http://www.anastrologersperspective.com/scandal.html

Posted by: Mac on May 31, 2003 10:36 PM

Yes, Laurie Mac, let yourself hope. Carrie Lever is right on with that article, written 9 months ago now. She said "His problems are likely to be legal, foreign and military issues." This is the same astrologer that foresaw the terrorist attack, and tried to warn the White House through her letters. She concludes that Bush will not get off as lightly as Clinton did, and Clinton got impeached along with months and months of exasperating and humiliating news coverage.

For sure there's lots of things they've lied about already, and maybe these idiots are actually going to plant WMDs and get caught lying about that too. The rest of the world sees through this, now it's time for the U.S. This will be slow but sure, and we are going to see a few presidential hissy fits along the way. OMG folks, order your popcorn and take your seats!! We're about to see a long, long movie unfold.

Posted by: Laurie on June 1, 2003 12:34 AM

i don't think they'll plant them. this admin just sees how far they can push people. he got on the plane and cut that 400 dollar per child rebate for families that make under 26k, so that he can pay for the dividend nonsense. but not many know that...y'know, what nerve. the guy has got the biggest kahoonas...

sally mentioned something very interesting recently that i'd like to witness..she said she believed the eclipse coming in nov would set off the eclipse of aug 99....i believe this to be true. i was recording a record that summer, and then it just really didn't do anything at all...all of a sudden, without even trying, people are coming out of the woodwork regarding it, in the past few weeks, (and that was 2 albums ago for me)...i'm talking to musicians that i said goodbye to in 1999..very odd it's all been.

if we think macrocosmicaly of what we have come to learn that was going on in the summer of 99, it was the terrorists enlisting in the flight schools and planning 9/11...therefore i think it's safe to say, there's going to be another attack, perhaps bigger than 9/11...besides all the other indications (mars energy), this eclipse analysis of sally clinches it for me.

someone just handed me a booklet on larouche, any word on him? he calls the hawks, "satans children"...

Posted by: Roxanne on June 1, 2003 04:16 AM

I personally don't give a damn about Clinton's BJ... IF it happened! I wasn't there, & neither were any of the rest of us. I DO understand the "impeachments" to be a mindboggling attempt to run a congressional coup d'etat against President Clinton that didn't stick. And the repukes certainly wheren't paying attn to the country's bidness playing their porno-puritan game... thank goodness actually. So, imo, there's NO real comparison of the criminal bush et al to Clinton. That said, Clinton is part of the DLC who has sold out the USian citizen just as have the repukes. They all need to be kicked off the face of the Earth.

Posted by: JoannaOregon on June 1, 2003 04:28 AM

Roxanne, I hope you're right, and oh my, would it ever be SWEET if they DID plant them and then got caught - that would (one hopes) be the end. (In THIS country, who knows - Enron didn't do it, Harken/Halliburton didn't do it, an internationally unsupported war didn't do it - what WILL it take?) But if they had foreknowledge of 9/11 as I believe in my very core that they did, then planting WMD would be a piece of cake for them to do, unless someone involved suddenly grew a conscience. We'll see. Honestly, if they could pull off 9/11, what's to stop them from doing it again to get the full-blown police state they're salivating for? C'mon, SATURN! Nail 'em.
: P

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